Looks like we might have an actual major sports event soon. :o
QuoteGroup A: Turkey, Italy, Wales, Switzerland
Group B: Denmark, Finland, Belgium, Russia
Group C: Netherlands, Ukraine, Austria, North Macedonia
Group D: England, Croatia, Scotland, Czech Republic
Group E: Spain, Sweden, Poland, Slovakia
Group F: Hungary, Portugal, France, Germany
This is not going to be our year (what else is new). Anyone winning it but England or Portugal is fine by me.
edit - link to pool: https://www.pooltracker.com/join.asp?poolid=187405
Full schedule (GMT)
QuoteGROUP STAGE
Friday 11 June
Group A: Turkey vs Italy (20:00, Rome)
Saturday 12 June
Group A: Wales vs Switzerland (14:00, Baku)
Group B: Denmark vs Finland (17:00, Copenhagen)
Group B: Belgium vs Russia (20:00, St Petersburg)
Sunday 13 June
Group D: England vs Croatia (14:00, London)
Group C: Austria vs North Macedonia (17:00, Bucharest)
Group C: Netherlands vs Ukraine (20:00, Amsterdam)
Monday 14 June
Group D: Scotland vs Czech Republic (14:00, Glasgow)
Group E: Poland vs Slovakia (17:00, St Petersburg)
Group E: Spain vs Sweden (20:00, Seville)
Tuesday 15 June
Group F: Hungary vs Portugal (17:00, Budapest)
Group F: France vs Germany (20:00, Munich)
Wednesday 16 June
Group B: Finland vs Russia (14:00, St Petersburg)
Group A: Turkey vs Wales (17:00, Baku)
Group A: Italy vs Switzerland (20:00, Rome)
Thursday 17 June
Group C: Ukraine vs North Macedonia (15:00, Bucharest)
Group B: Denmark vs Belgium (18:00, Copenhagen)
Group C: Netherlands vs Austria (21:00, Amsterdam)
Friday 18 June
Group E: Sweden vs Slovakia (14:00, St Petersburg)
Group D: Croatia vs Czech Republic (17:00, Glasgow)
Group D: England vs Scotland (20:00, London)
Saturday 19 June
Group F: Hungary vs France (14:00, Budapest)
Group F: Portugal vs Germany (17:00, Munich)
Group E: Spain vs Poland (20:00, Seville)
Sunday 20 June
Group A: Italy vs Wales (17:00, Rome)
Group A: Switzerland vs Turkey (17:00, Baku)
Monday 21 June
Group C: North Macedonia vs Netherlands (17:00, Amsterdam)
Group C: Ukraine vs Austria (17:00, Bucharest)
Group B: Russia vs Denmark (20:00, Copenhagen)
Group B: Finland vs Belgium (20:00, St Petersburg)
Tuesday 22 June
Group D: Czech Republic vs England (20:00, London)
Group D: Croatia vs Scotland (20:00, Glasgow)
Wednesday 23 June
Group E: Slovakia vs Spain (17:00, Seville)
Group E: Sweden vs Poland (17:00, St Petersburg)
Group F: Germany vs Hungary (20:00, Munich)
Group F: Portugal v France (20:00, Budapest)
The top two in each group plus four best third-placed teams go through.
ROUND OF 16
Saturday 26 June
1: 2A vs 2B (17:00, Amsterdam)
2: 1A vs 2C (20:00, London)
Sunday 27 June
3: 1C vs 3D/E/F (17:00, Budapest)
4: 1B vs 3A/D/E/F (20:00, Bilbao)
Monday 28 June
5: 2D vs 2E (17:00, Copenhagen)
6: 1F vs 3A/B/C (20:00, Bucharest)
Tuesday 29 June
7: 1D vs 2F (17:00, London)
8: 1E vs 3A/B/C/D (20:00, Glasgow)
QUARTER-FINALS
Friday 2 July
QF1: Winner 6 vs Winner 5 (17:00, St Petersburg)
QF2: Winner 4 vs Winner 2 (20:00, Munich)
Saturday 3 July
QF3: Winner 3 vs Winner 1 (17:00, Baku)
QF4: Winner 8 vs Winner 7 (20:00, Rome)
SEMI-FINALS
Tuesday 6 July
SF1: Winner QF2 vs Winner QF1 (20:00, London)
Wednesday 7 July
SF2: Winner QF4 vs Winner QF3 (20:00, London)
FINAL
Sunday 11 July
Winner SF1 vs Winner SF2 (20:00, London)
Should we organize a pool?
Quote from: Maladict on May 14, 2021, 06:41:42 AM
Looks like we might have an actual major sports event soon. :o
QuoteGroup A: Turkey, Italy, Wales, Switzerland
Group B: Denmark, Finland, Belgium, Russia
Group C: Netherlands, Ukraine, Austria, North Macedonia
Group D: England, Croatia, Scotland, Czech Republic
Group E: Spain, Sweden, Poland, Slovakia
Group F: Hungary, Portugal, France, Germany
This is not going to be our year (what else is new). Anyone winning it but England or Portugal is fine by me.
You should just give into your love of portugal :wub:
I fail to have the slightest interest in this. I guess it just doesn't feel like its actually going to happen.
I shall support....Finland.
Group F :lol:
It's a bit like Chelsea with England for me - weirdly and improbably it's somehow quite a likeable team (especially if Foden, Grealish, Mount, Sterling will somehow be playing - plus the People's Footballer, Marcus Rashford and DCL). I hope they are as fun as they should be with those players.
Quote from: Josephus on May 14, 2021, 07:57:43 AM
Should we organize a pool?
https://www.pooltracker.com/join.asp?poolid=187405
Password: Languish2021
I feel much less confident about my selections than I did about those I made in the last World Cup.
I'm in. Thanks for setting it up
England vs Scotland in London on the 18th June should be 'interesting'.
Off hand, isn't the 18th the anniversary of Waterloo??
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 14, 2021, 08:23:46 AM
Group F :lol:
I didn't realise what was Hungary in for. :lol: This is going to be ugly.
Quote from: Tamas on May 14, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
I didn't realise what was Hungary in for. :lol: This is going to be ugly.
Nobody is going to expect anything from Hungary in this group. Plus, you only have to trip up one of the three to get some epic meltdowns.
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 14, 2021, 08:23:46 AM
Group F :lol:
That's
O Grupo da Morte, obrigado.
I was planning to watch some games in Budapest and Munich but cancelled it due to the Covid crisis.
Wait... Denmark gets to play all their games in Copenhagen? There's no home and away games?
Quote from: Jacob on May 14, 2021, 03:50:37 PM
Wait... Denmark gets to play all their games in Copenhagen? There's no home and away games?
No such thing as home and away games in these kind of tournaments. Spain also plays its three group stage games in Seville, same with Germany in Munich, Italy in Rome, etc.
Germany has a poor team right now, not comparable to the 2006-2016 era. I don't expect much.
Quote from: Zanza on May 14, 2021, 04:07:45 PM
Germany has a poor team right now, not comparable to the 2006-2016 era. I don't expect much.
Let's preserve this ahead of the inevitable German victory. :P
Now seriously, I'd say that France have to be the favourites.
Quote from: The Larch on May 14, 2021, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 14, 2021, 03:50:37 PM
Wait... Denmark gets to play all their games in Copenhagen? There's no home and away games?
No such thing as home and away games in these kind of tournaments. Spain also plays its three group stage games in Seville, same with Germany in Munich, Italy in Rome, etc.
Seems unfair, but I'll take it.
Quote from: Jacob on May 14, 2021, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: The Larch on May 14, 2021, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 14, 2021, 03:50:37 PM
Wait... Denmark gets to play all their games in Copenhagen? There's no home and away games?
No such thing as home and away games in these kind of tournaments. Spain also plays its three group stage games in Seville, same with Germany in Munich, Italy in Rome, etc.
Seems unfair, but I'll take it.
It's a very weird format with venues all over the continent and no "host" nation per se. I doubt it'll ever be repeated.
Rescuing this from page 2, we're obviously all very excited :lol:
Well, teams are still being announced, and I guess most people is still in "end of the season" mood, with the CL final last saturday. :P
The friendlies to prepare for the Euro start later this week, right?
OTOH, it starts June 11th, not today. :nerd:
So there is still time to complete your Panini album. :P
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 04:08:30 AM
Well, teams are still being announced, and I guess most people is still in "end of the season" mood, with the CL final last saturday. :P
The friendlies to prepare for the Euro start later this week, right?
Some teams such as Sweden and Finland, already started.
Quote from: Zanza on May 14, 2021, 04:07:45 PM
Germany has a poor team right now, not comparable to the 2006-2016 era. I don't expect much.
Same for us. Aging stars and a group of decent young footballers, but nothing else.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2021, 04:09:52 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 04:08:30 AM
Well, teams are still being announced, and I guess most people is still in "end of the season" mood, with the CL final last saturday. :P
The friendlies to prepare for the Euro start later this week, right?
Some teams such as Sweden and Finland, already started.
I just checked and Spain plays its first friendly against Portugal this friday.
I had in the back of my mind the idea that Spain was playing Croatia this week (in fact it is today), but it's for the U-21 Euro championship, which goes straight for the knockout stage as they already played the group stage back in March.
Quote from: celedhring on May 31, 2021, 04:21:21 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 14, 2021, 04:07:45 PM
Germany has a poor team right now, not comparable to the 2006-2016 era. I don't expect much.
Same for us. Aging stars and a group of decent young footballers, but nothing else.
While I don't think that we're favourites at all (those are France and Portugal, IMO), I think people are being far too low on the Spanish team. We're a sold 2nd tier team at the moment, I'd say. We should get to the QF with no major issue, and then it'd depend on who we'll face.
Problem for the Selecção is there is a lack of options for central backs, only 3 with 2 retiring soon i.e Pepe and Fonte. Ruben Dias is very good but the only possible option is a 6, Danilo.
Goalkeeper is fine, as in 2016.
Coach has not yet managed to have a consistent midfield and attack with so many options, with Fernandes underperforming in the national squad, and burn out after playing so many games this season, and Félix not yet fully integrated. There is a 9, André Silva, but he lost quite a bit of traction he had with Ronaldo since his failed season at Milan. Speaking of Ronaldo, there is always the question of the team playing for Ronaldo or the opposite. ;) Where does he play with so many attacking options, namely.
By the way, whoever came up with the "4 of the best 3rd placed teams qualify for the knockout round" system deserves to be flogged. There's no way to do a proper speculative bracket this time.
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 04:56:59 AM
By the way, whoever came up with the "4 of the best 3rd placed teams qualify for the knockout round" system deserves to be flogged. There's no way to do a proper speculative bracket this time.
That's how World Cups used to be from 1986 on. Of course Euros at the time had 2 x 4 teams. Not a fan of the participant inflation in recent years.
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 05:19:23 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 04:56:59 AM
By the way, whoever came up with the "4 of the best 3rd placed teams qualify for the knockout round" system deserves to be flogged. There's no way to do a proper speculative bracket this time.
That's how World Cups used to be from 1986 on. Of course Euros at the time had 2 x 4 teams. Not a fan of the participant inflation in recent years.
That was a good thing about having the WC go from 24 to 32 teams, no more "best 3rd" shenanigans.
With 24 teams I'd rather have 8 groups of 3 teams with the first two qualifying, but I guess that getting kicked out after only two matches is a bit underwhelming. 4 groups of 6 just makes for a far too long group stage.
Or you could just stick with 16 teams, at the risk of some "big" teams occasionally not qualifying. Or, if you MUST include them (and their advertising audiences), go with 32 teams, which will water down the quality of the tournament even more.
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:00:52 AM
Or you could just stick with 16 teams, at the risk of some "big" teams occasionally not qualifying. Or, if you MUST include them (and their advertising audiences), go with 32 teams, which will water down the quality of the tournament even more.
Oh yes, absolutely, for the Euro 16 teams (in 4 groups of 4 teams) would be ideal. I could even accept 20 teams (in 4 groups of 5 teams), but 24 makes the "best 3rd" system unavoidable. Going to 32 just makes the qualifying stage a bit of a farce, and it takes way too many hopeless teams into the tournament.
What do you guys think of less teams (a return to 16) but more more often?
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 06:06:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:00:52 AM
Or you could just stick with 16 teams, at the risk of some "big" teams occasionally not qualifying. Or, if you MUST include them (and their advertising audiences), go with 32 teams, which will water down the quality of the tournament even more.
Oh yes, absolutely, for the Euro 16 teams (in 4 groups of 4 teams) would be ideal. I could even accept 20 teams (in 4 groups of 5 teams), but 24 makes the "best 3rd" system unavoidable. Going to 32 just makes the qualifying stage a bit of a farce, and it takes way too many hopeless teams into the tournament.
This Wiki page has a nice overview of formats a bit further down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_FIFA_World_Cup
I had forgotten that Spain 82 had 24 teams, too, but then moved to a second group stage.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 31, 2021, 06:13:00 AM
What do you guys think of less teams (a return to 16) but more more often?
More often (every two or three years) would mean collision with FIFA World Cup, unless you switch to holding it in uneven years. Even then, having big tournaments in consecutive years (with qualifiers) might be too much of a strain for players who also compete with their clubs in leagues, international tournaments, cups, etc.
You guys know there's a proposal being considered by FIFA to have a World Cup every two years, right? :bleeding:
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:14:57 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 06:06:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:00:52 AM
Or you could just stick with 16 teams, at the risk of some "big" teams occasionally not qualifying. Or, if you MUST include them (and their advertising audiences), go with 32 teams, which will water down the quality of the tournament even more.
Oh yes, absolutely, for the Euro 16 teams (in 4 groups of 4 teams) would be ideal. I could even accept 20 teams (in 4 groups of 5 teams), but 24 makes the "best 3rd" system unavoidable. Going to 32 just makes the qualifying stage a bit of a farce, and it takes way too many hopeless teams into the tournament.
This Wiki page has a nice overview of formats a bit further down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_FIFA_World_Cup
I had forgotten that Spain 82 had 24 teams, too, but then moved to a second group stage.
Spain 82's system of a 2nd group stage was a mess, no wonder it was immediately discarded.
Oh man, for the 2026 WC they'll actually do 16 groups of 3 teams.
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:16:25 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 31, 2021, 06:13:00 AM
What do you guys think of less teams (a return to 16) but more more often?
More often (every two or three years) would mean collision with FIFA World Cup, unless you switch to holding it in uneven years. Even then, having big tournaments in consecutive years (with qualifiers) might be too much of a strain for players who also compete with their clubs in leagues, international tournaments, cups, etc.
Other continental competitions have weirder schedules. The Copa América is played in a very strange frequency. There's one this year, the last one was in 2019 and the next one is in 2024. They even played it two years in a row once (2015 and 2016). The Africa Cup is played every two years, and because they shifted to have it in odd years they also played two years in a row once (2012 and 2013).
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2021, 04:09:16 AM
OTOH, it starts June 11th, not today. :nerd:
So there is still time to complete your Panini album. :P
My golden 1988 album is going to be worth a fortune. If only I could find it.
I never finished any of my Panini albums (1984 - 1990 tournaments, plus Bundesliga). :(
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:53:53 AM
I never finished any of my Panini albums (1984 - 1990 tournaments, plus Bundesliga). :(
There were always 2 or 3 stickers that were almost impossible to find. The three I think I got the closest were Mexico 86, Italy 90 and USA 94. I don't think we got albums for the Euros, at least I don't remember them.
A couple years ago there was a book on sale with all Panini albums printed from the earliest World Cup they covered up till 2002 or 2006. I was tempted. :D
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 07:02:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 06:53:53 AM
I never finished any of my Panini albums (1984 - 1990 tournaments, plus Bundesliga). :(
There were always 2 or 3 stickers that were almost impossible to find. The two I think I got the closest were Mexico 86, Italy 90 and USA 94. I don't think we got albums for the Euros, at least I don't remember them.
There are. At least from 1984 on, possibly earlier.
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 07:07:05 AM
A couple years ago there was a book on sale with all Panini albums printed from the earliest World Cup they covered up till 2002 or 2006. I was tempted. :D
The one I got included all WC till 2014. :P
There is probably a newer edition with the Russian edition included.
I was a football fan in the 90s and 2000s, but these days I barely care anymore.
Quote from: Zanza on May 31, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
I was a football fan in the 90s and 2000s, but these days I barely care anymore.
Same, really.
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 06:19:05 AM
You guys know there's a proposal being considered by FIFA to have a World Cup every two years, right? :bleeding:
That's their dream. Euro 1 year, WC the next.
Quote from: The Larch on May 31, 2021, 06:19:05 AM
You guys know there's a proposal being considered by FIFA to have a World Cup every two years, right? :bleeding:
Double the frequency of bribes from chip-on-shoulder autocracies? What's not to like for them?
Quote from: Zanza on May 31, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
I was a football fan in the 90s and 2000s, but these days I barely care anymore.
I will say as somebody who enjoys spectator sports than most other forms of entertainment, it was sure nice when the internet was not keeping you constantly informed about how the sausage is made.
Quote from: Syt on May 31, 2021, 08:08:31 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 31, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
I was a football fan in the 90s and 2000s, but these days I barely care anymore.
Same, really.
:hmm:
While it is easier to be excited when younger, yet I still follow national squad football, the ever more tilted in favor of big clubs Champions' League, now only on pay TV (unlike 10-15 years ago), definitively lost quite a bit of interest.
I pretend that I don't care anymore because Barça sucks, but it's a lie.
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 10:29:51 AM
I pretend that I don't care anymore because Barça sucks, but it's a lie.
:lol:
I know the feeling.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 07:35:59 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 31, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
I was a football fan in the 90s and 2000s, but these days I barely care anymore.
I will say as somebody who enjoys spectator sports than most other forms of entertainment, it was sure nice when the internet was not keeping you constantly informed about how the sausage is made.
That's one of the main reasons I lost interest in most sports.
Good lord England are so extra :lol:
https://twitter.com/England/status/1399757633708560393?s=20
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Quote from: Syt on June 01, 2021, 11:06:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 07:35:59 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 31, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
I was a football fan in the 90s and 2000s, but these days I barely care anymore.
I will say as somebody who enjoys spectator sports than most other forms of entertainment, it was sure nice when the internet was not keeping you constantly informed about how the sausage is made.
That's one of the main reasons I lost interest in most sports.
If you are not careful it can make you lose interest in most things. It is a struggle.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Good lord England are so extra :lol:
https://twitter.com/England/status/1399757633708560393?s=20
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Unsurprisingly, the French one is so much better. :P
https://twitter.com/equipedefrance/status/1394979741799702529 (https://twitter.com/equipedefrance/status/1394979741799702529)
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 11:22:40 AMUnsurprisingly, the French one is so much better. :P
https://twitter.com/equipedefrance/status/1394979741799702529 (https://twitter.com/equipedefrance/status/1394979741799702529)
But of course :lol:
But I would note the French one is more about football and the players, while the English one is broadly about football-adjacent things, as ever.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Isn't that the case for most countries, though? I shudder at what other countries think of as "Spanishness".
Allez les Bleus.
My England fandom is diying.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Good lord England are so extra :lol:
https://twitter.com/England/status/1399757633708560393?s=20
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Wow. Is that an anthem for an exciting sporting event? Because I am not really feeling fired up here.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Good lord England are so extra :lol:
https://twitter.com/England/status/1399757633708560393?s=20
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Wow. Is that an anthem for an exciting sporting event? Because I am not really feeling fired up here.
Listen to the French one and feel ready to charge at your opponents. :frog:
I was reminiscing that the last big tournament I watched was the WC 2014 in Brazil and was trying to remember where the Euro 2016 was held and came up blank. Turns out it was France. I had completely forgotten about the tournament. :lol: I've also completely ignored the WC in Russia, though at least there I can claim I ignored it for political reasons. :P
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Isn't that the case for most countries, though? I shudder at what other countries think of as "Spanishness".
Weird art, Sangria, Paella, Basque terrorism, taking siestas, and staying up all night mostly.
Which sure beats the older associations of fascism and Catholic fanaticism.
Quote from: Syt on June 01, 2021, 11:33:49 AM
I've also completely ignored the WC in Russia, though at least there I can claim I ignored it for political reasons. :P
It was kind of like 1812 only the French won this time.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:31:50 AM
Wow. Is that an anthem for an exciting sporting event? Because I am not really feeling fired up here.
:lol: No. It's a song for the announcement of the squad list.
And very influenced by loads of football ads over here - for Champions League or for emotional videos about football without fans or against racism etc. It's a sort of "football TV/social media clip" vernacular at this stage.
QuoteIsn't that the case for most countries, though? I shudder at what other countries think of as "Spanishness".
Maybe - it might just be particularly strong because we speak English and have an entire TV/film industry basically selling a version of Englishness.
Incidentally I think football can help shape this. I'm convinced that Football Italia has had a long impact on British perceptions of Italy :lol:
But yeah I think Valmy's probably right - I feel like the UK stereotype for Spain involves a lot of Miro and Picasso inspired graphics.
Let's see what kind of weird announcement video we produce. :lol:
Then again, we know the team already, it might be out online and we didn't even realize it. :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:39:56 AM
:lol: No. It's a song for the announcement of the squad list.
Oh it did list the players at the end. It is kind of the Mr Plow ad of football announcements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZJrQodMfk
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:35:30 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Isn't that the case for most countries, though? I shudder at what other countries think of as "Spanishness".
Weird art, Sangria, Paella, Basque terrorism, taking siestas, and staying up all night mostly.
Which sure beats the older associations of fascism and Catholic fanaticism.
That description sounds like a 1990s tourism commercial :D - minus the terrorist part, I don't think we were trying to sell that.
Oh, I was reading a WaPo article the other day and the whole "Catholic fanaticism" is still truly alive.
The German team from the 70s through the 90s used to produce world cup songs. The best was probably the one for 1978 in Argentina:
https://youtu.be/ozV52NNg6uM
(not that it's saying much :P )
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:09:00 AM
Good lord England are so extra :lol:
https://twitter.com/England/status/1399757633708560393?s=20
Also example #657 of modern English presentation of Englishness looking nothing like the perception of Englishness from the rest of the world.
Wow. Is that an anthem for an exciting sporting event? Because I am not really feeling fired up here.
Listen to the French one and feel ready to charge at your opponents. :frog:
See that makes me want to do some borderline illegal tackles. That's what I am talking about.
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:46:12 AM
Oh, I was reading a WaPo article the other day and the whole "Catholic fanaticism" is still truly alive.
Is it? Generally Americans tend to just assume most Europeans are godless atheists. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury is looked at with suspicion. "Probably a communist" we think.
Quote from: Syt on June 01, 2021, 11:46:27 AM
The German team from the 70s through the 90s used to produce world cup songs. The best was probably the one for 1978 in Argentina:
https://youtu.be/ozV52NNg6uM
(not that it's saying much :P )
Players crappily singing football songs is peak 1990s football! :w00t:
Here's Cruyff era's Barça squad rapping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqn_Pilkj_Y
I am pleased to see the Super Bowl shuffle spread its influence overseas.
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:49:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 01, 2021, 11:46:27 AM
The German team from the 70s through the 90s used to produce world cup songs. The best was probably the one for 1978 in Argentina:
https://youtu.be/ozV52NNg6uM
(not that it's saying much :P )
Players crappily singing football songs is peak 1990s football! :w00t:
Here's Cruyff era's Barça squad rapping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqn_Pilkj_Y
The epitome of bad football songs remains this 1983 British song about Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, though. :P
https://youtu.be/nWHL0HsusvU
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:46:12 AM
Oh, I was reading a WaPo article the other day and the whole "Catholic fanaticism" is still truly alive.
Is it? Generally Americans tend to just assume most Europeans are godless atheists. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury is looked at with suspicion. "Probably a communist" we think.
Yeah, it was an article discussing the rather unfortunate anti-racist stamps recently released by our post office. The writer discussed how our PO has always had a liberal bent, and was genuinely surprised by it given we are such a conservative Catholic country :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:44:47 AMOh it did list the players at the end. It is kind of the Mr Plow ad of football announcements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZJrQodMfk
Yeah :lol:
As I say that is almost the vernacular style for sports plus social issue/commentary. I've seen similar by one of the channels about covid/football without fans and BLM. It's the house style for some reason.
It's probably one of those things were someone did it once really well and creatively and now every ad/promo vid is trying to re-create it.
QuotePlayers crappily singing football songs is peak 1990s football! :w00t:
Yes. I genuinely think recording a shit single should be mandatory if you want to compete in a cup tournament :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:46:12 AM
Oh, I was reading a WaPo article the other day and the whole "Catholic fanaticism" is still truly alive.
Is it? Generally Americans tend to just assume most Europeans are godless atheists. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury is looked at with suspicion. "Probably a communist" we think.
Yeah, it was an article discussing the rather unfortunate anti-racist stamps recently released by our post office. The writer discussed how our PO has always had a liberal bent, and was genuinely surprised by it given we are such a conservative Catholic country :lol:
No mentions of Franco and/or the Civil War?
I think during my time in Spain I may have seen a few people visiting a church who were not tourists :hmm:
I mean I saw greater religiosity in France, but granted I was there far longer. Like there was this one family I visited who actually said grace before every meal and had all the Catholic bling everywhere. I remember being surprised they still made French people like that. So I am sure they are out there in Spain someplace.
Oh there's a proper hard-core old school Catholic alternate reality in France.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 11:22:40 AMUnsurprisingly, the French one is so much better. :P
https://twitter.com/equipedefrance/status/1394979741799702529 (https://twitter.com/equipedefrance/status/1394979741799702529)
But of course :lol:
But I would note the French one is more about football and the players, while the English one is broadly about football-adjacent things, as ever.
More crappy hip-hop for France. :yawn:
Subjonctif being one of the casualties. :P
But then Youssoupha is not exactly a luminary, even for French hip-hop.
I guess I prefer the
variété style of the '80s (lesser evil).
1982
Ollé (sic) la France
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LqID1kLtZU
1986
Viva les Bleus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJE43aot4DA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJE43aot4DA)
Even the crappy Hallyday's 2002 song was funny, in a so bad it's good way:
On est champion(s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ku9s0CKbpY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ku9s0CKbpY)
Parody was better, obviously
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHLQjfVUQac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHLQjfVUQac)
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 11:46:12 AM
Oh, I was reading a WaPo article the other day and the whole "Catholic fanaticism" is still truly alive.
Is it? Generally Americans tend to just assume most Europeans are godless atheists. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury is looked at with suspicion. "Probably a communist" we think.
Godless atheists? Granted, atheists with (a) God would sound weird. :hmm:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:08:14 PM
More crappy hip-hop for France. :yawn:
You did hear the boring ass hip hop song the English made right?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:10:15 PM
Godless atheists? Granted, atheists with (a) God would sound weird. :hmm:
We like to emphasize just how godless they actually are.
Ours is too long and boring but it does feature some of the legends from '92 and contains no hip-hop. If you want to see it:
KOM SÅ DANMARK!
https://twitter.com/DBUfodbold/status/1397256036222898187
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:08:14 PM
More crappy hip-hop for France. :yawn:
You did hear the boring ass hip hop song the English made right?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:10:15 PM
Godless atheists? Granted, atheists with (a) God would sound weird. :hmm:
We like to emphasize just how godless they actually are.
I was waiting for an Atheists for God/Jesus retort coming out of nowhere, or through the intercession of the Holy Ghost I guess.
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 11:43:29 AM
Let's see what kind of weird announcement video we produce. :lol:
Then again, we know the team already, it might be out online and we didn't even realize it. :lol:
No song :(
https://twitter.com/SeFutbol/status/1397157694193213441
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 11:43:29 AM
Let's see what kind of weird announcement video we produce. :lol:
Then again, we know the team already, it might be out online and we didn't even realize it. :lol:
No song :(
https://twitter.com/SeFutbol/status/1397157694193213441
Maybe it's better that way, I'm imagining they'd use some kind of weird trap tune and I tremble just at the thought of it.
Germany also did only a few tweets about the team for the Euro, and a press conference.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1vr-1FWQAIh2x8?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1v4DHmXoAMFqm8?format=jpg&name=medium)
I recognize like 5 names. :D
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:01:10 PM
I think during my time in Spain I may have seen a few people visiting a church who were not tourists :hmm:
I mean I saw greater religiosity in France, but granted I was there far longer. Like there was this one family I visited who actually said grace before every meal and had all the Catholic bling everywhere. I remember being surprised they still made French people like that. So I am sure they are out there in Spain someplace.
Wasn't the biggest push back against the revolution from the religious folks? granted, that was centuries ago, but france always had a strong religious following.
Quote from: celedhring on June 01, 2021, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 11:43:29 AM
Let's see what kind of weird announcement video we produce. :lol:
Then again, we know the team already, it might be out online and we didn't even realize it. :lol:
No song :(
https://twitter.com/SeFutbol/status/1397157694193213441
8 minutes long :lol: :blink:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
8 minutes long :lol: :blink:
Germany had a 90 minutes press conference with no fancy presentations or animations where the team selection was announced. :P
https://youtu.be/F_uH26FkZoo
Quote from: Syt on June 01, 2021, 12:39:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1vr-1FWQAIh2x8?format=jpg&name=medium)
Salt?! Is he dropping salt?
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2021, 12:42:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:01:10 PM
I think during my time in Spain I may have seen a few people visiting a church who were not tourists :hmm:
I mean I saw greater religiosity in France, but granted I was there far longer. Like there was this one family I visited who actually said grace before every meal and had all the Catholic bling everywhere. I remember being surprised they still made French people like that. So I am sure they are out there in Spain someplace.
Wasn't the biggest push back against the revolution from the religious folks? granted, that was centuries ago, but france always had a strong religious following.
Oh yeah. And that family did have a tribute to the martyrs of the Vendée as well :ph34r:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:08:14 PM
More crappy hip-hop for France. :yawn:
You did hear the boring ass hip hop song the English made right?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Hip hop is perfectly appropriate for sports hype videos...just not the one the English used. :zzz
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:08:14 PM
More crappy hip-hop for France. :yawn:
You did hear the boring ass hip hop song the English made right?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Hip hop is perfectly appropriate for sports hype videos...just not the one the English used. :zzz
That might be so, but Youssoupha's is crap too, though unlike his previous "lyrics" he won't boo the Marseillaise. :P
Benzema is back too. The Exilee returns to bring victory!
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
Hip hop is perfectly appropriate for sports hype videos...just not the one the English used. :zzz
But it's not about hype (lol) - it's about feeling :P
Feeling bored.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:10:18 PM
Benzema is back too. The Exilee returns to bring victory!
:secret:
The team won a World cup without that blackmailing accomplice piece of shit.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2021, 12:42:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:01:10 PM
I think during my time in Spain I may have seen a few people visiting a church who were not tourists :hmm:
I mean I saw greater religiosity in France, but granted I was there far longer. Like there was this one family I visited who actually said grace before every meal and had all the Catholic bling everywhere. I remember being surprised they still made French people like that. So I am sure they are out there in Spain someplace.
Wasn't the biggest push back against the revolution from the religious folks? granted, that was centuries ago, but france always had a strong religious following.
Oh yeah. And that family did have a tribute to the martyrs of the Vendée as well :ph34r:
Ok, so you ended up with a bunch of Lefebvrists.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:10:18 PM
Benzema is back too. The Exilee returns to bring victory!
:secret:
The team won a World cup without that blackmailing accomplice piece of shit.
That's a different competition.
You guys lost to Portugal.
Fucking Portugal.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 12:08:14 PM
More crappy hip-hop for France. :yawn:
You did hear the boring ass hip hop song the English made right?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Hip hop is perfectly appropriate for sports hype videos...just not the one the English used. :zzz
The NFL did it much better for their 100th. :P
https://youtu.be/QEocukHKs10
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:10:18 PM
Benzema is back too. The Exilee returns to bring victory!
:secret:
The team won a World cup without that blackmailing accomplice piece of shit.
That's a different competition.
You guys lost to Portugal.
Fucking Portugal.
Hey! Words hurt you know :cry: :P
Quote from: The Larch on June 01, 2021, 01:14:09 PM
Ok, so you ended up with a bunch of Lefebvrists.
They were lovely people :wub:
I was really caught off guard when I visited their home, I never would have guessed they were so religious otherwise.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:10:18 PM
Benzema is back too. The Exilee returns to bring victory!
:secret:
The team won a World cup without that blackmailing accomplice piece of shit.
That's a different competition.
You guys lost to Portugal.
Fucking Portugal.
:yeah:
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2021, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2021, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2021, 01:10:18 PM
Benzema is back too. The Exilee returns to bring victory!
:secret:
The team won a World cup without that blackmailing accomplice piece of shit.
That's a different competition.
You guys lost to Portugal.
Fucking Portugal.
Hey! Words hurt you know :cry: :P
Not that much as that Eder goal though. :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 01, 2021, 12:05:38 PM
Oh there's a proper hard-core old school Catholic alternate reality in France.
We like to keep a few Guises in case the Calvinists decide to make a comeback.
I have seen an online Hungarian "article" musing on how Hungarian fans will have the best time on this competition: their team is there but not only in an utterly hopeless situation, but an understandably hopeless one - in all games, any scored goal, and any less than 3 conceded will be a success.
:D
Yeah I feel like given that group you just have to embrace the pain and hope for the best :lol:
Separately - I'm not normally particularly a big fan of international football or England (:x) - but I do think that team is, as I say like Chelsea, uncharacteristically likeable. I think it's also one of the youngest in the tournament and from a midfield/attacking sense I think pretty good. But I feel like Jonathan Wilson is right that international tournaments are normally won by the best/most solid defence and quite a boring/basic set-up so I imagine I'll not enjoy it very much :lol:
I see some fans booed the players taking a knee. They were swiftly drowned out by applause but still :bleeding:
And Gareth Southgate spoke about it:
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1401188262937612306?s=20
The weird thing about this moment is that the fans are the worst thing about England and actually the players and the backroom staff are the best. It's different from when I was younger and, of course, the fans were awful (the band/"club England" lot etc :lol: :weep: :bleeding:) but you know John Terry was playing :lol:
QuoteSpain squad in isolation after Sergio Busquets tests positive for Covid
So, second major tournament in a row with pre-tournament shenanigans on Spain's part. :lol:
Quote from: The Larch on June 06, 2021, 04:02:22 PM
QuoteSpain squad in isolation after Sergio Busquets tests positive for Covid
So, second major tournament in a row with pre-tournament shenanigans on Spain's part. :lol:
And the Selecção in 7-day isolation as contact cases. :ultra: :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 05, 2021, 03:33:45 PM
I see some fans booed the players taking a knee. They were swiftly drowned out by applause but still :bleeding:
Why are they taking knees?
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 05, 2021, 03:33:45 PM
I see some fans booed the players taking a knee. They were swiftly drowned out by applause but still :bleeding:
Why are they taking knees?
When the establishment got scared by the American riots last summer, collective knee-taking was made to start. IIRC a month or so ago the FA tried to find an excuse to stop doing it and failed, and now the racists started to chime in by booing the knee-taking so it can't really be stopped now.
Oh are they doing it because they are upset about how Black Americans are being treated by our cops? Like a solidarity thing?
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 09:11:39 AM
Oh are they doing it because they are upset about how Black Americans are being treated by our cops? Like a solidarity thing?
Not to mention virtue-signaling.
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 09:11:39 AM
Oh are they doing it because they are upset about how Black Americans are being treated by our cops? Like a solidarity thing?
I didn't catch any of it, but I would guess it's more broadly about systemic racism. Which is conveniently supplied by their own 'fans'.
I thought this was a pretty decent article on the taking the knee thing:
https://theathletic.com/2244447/2021/06/03/taking-knee-football-racism-violence-marxism-blm/
So yeah. Started with American cops killing black people and BLM, but now it is a more general anti-racism sentiment. Show racism the red card is a long standing campaign in English football.
Quote from: Maladict on June 07, 2021, 09:40:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 09:11:39 AM
Oh are they doing it because they are upset about how Black Americans are being treated by our cops? Like a solidarity thing?
I didn't catch any of it, but I would guess it's more broadly about systemic racism. Which is conveniently supplied by their own 'fans'.
True. But the situation is not exactly comparable. Most of them moved to a continent with known centuries of genocide and persecution of racial, ethnic, and religious minorities voluntarily. Most black Americans were shipped over here involuntarily and stripped of their African identity and then had to live for centuries in rather merciless systematic oppression complete with violent terrorism. Doesn't really seem analogous. I understand them protesting but just appropriating the Black American gesture as if their situations are the same...I don't know.
But I guess it certainly is having its intended impact if the racists are taking the bait.
I always wonder what kind of risk taking personality these people have to move to Europe. Hey remember Bosnia 1992? All the ethnic cleansing after WWII? The Holocaust? I want in on that action, being a visible minority on that continent sounds awesome.
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 09:49:10 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 07, 2021, 09:40:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 09:11:39 AM
Oh are they doing it because they are upset about how Black Americans are being treated by our cops? Like a solidarity thing?
I didn't catch any of it, but I would guess it's more broadly about systemic racism. Which is conveniently supplied by their own 'fans'.
True. But the situation is not exactly comparable. Most of them moved to a continent with known centuries of genocide and persecution of racial, ethnic, and religious minorities voluntarily. Most black Americans were shipped over here involuntarily and stripped of their African identity and then had to live for centuries in rather merciless systematic oppression complete with violent terrorism. Doesn't really seem analogous. I understand them protesting but just appropriating the Black American gesture as if their situations are the same...I don't know.
But I guess it certainly is having its intended impact if the racists are taking the bait.
At a very quick check I can't find numbers but I'm pretty sure the majority of black Brits are of Carribean descent. Certainly they're the most visible black group.
So...it is arguably comparable to the situation of black Americans given their grandparents largely moved over when their islands will still colonies and in the same time period a lot of black Americans were moving out of the south where they'd been living for generations (originally as slaves) to the north.
Spain has called up 4 extra players to train for the next few days in paralel to the national team in case there are any Covid related drop-outs from the team.
Quote from: Maladict on June 07, 2021, 09:40:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 09:11:39 AM
Oh are they doing it because they are upset about how Black Americans are being treated by our cops? Like a solidarity thing?
I didn't catch any of it, but I would guess it's more broadly about systemic racism. Which is conveniently supplied by their own 'fans'.
Yes. It felt quite artificial and dishonest for me, until these booing racists highlighted that there's very much a point to it, so I should thank them for that I guess.
Two Swedish players (Svanberg and Kulusevski) have tested positive for Covid today, and will miss the first game of the tournament.
Quote from: The Larch on June 08, 2021, 11:49:35 AM
Two Swedish players (Svanberg and Kulusevski) have tested positive for Covid today, and will miss the first game of the tournament.
Time to bring back Zlatan from retirement? :hmm:
Open letter by Gareth Southgate, who really gets his role:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/dear-england-gareth-southgate-euros-soccer
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 08, 2021, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 08, 2021, 11:49:35 AM
Two Swedish players (Svanberg and Kulusevski) have tested positive for Covid today, and will miss the first game of the tournament.
Time to bring back Zlatan from retirement? :hmm:
He was going to be part of the squad for the tournament but got injured.
Dislocated his ego?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 08, 2021, 02:46:40 PM
Dislocated his ego?
Knee injury towards the end of the season playing for Milan.
Our U-21 team is playing the last pre-Euro friendly instead of the first team due to Busquets' positive for Covid, and it's beating Lithuania 3-0 for the moment.
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2021, 10:05:31 AM
I always wonder what kind of risk taking personality these people have to move to Europe. Hey remember Bosnia 1992? All the ethnic cleansing after WWII? The Holocaust? I want in on that action, being a visible minority on that continent sounds awesome.
:hmm:
A second Spanish player (Diego Llorente) has tested positive. A bunch of U-21 players have been added to the paralel squad that should supply any possible replacement.
Spanish U-21 seems to play better as a team than the main squad though. :hmm:
It actually starts, a major tournament :o
Quote from: Maladict on June 11, 2021, 01:40:30 PM
It actually starts, a major tournament :o
Opening ceremony does not count. :P
Goosebumps.
I wouldn't want to follow Bocelli. But hey, maybe the 2020 Euro pop tune is amazing?
Quote from: Liep on June 11, 2021, 01:47:57 PM
I wouldn't want to follow Bocelli. But hey, maybe the 2020 Euro pop tune is amazing?
While it doesn't suck the Edge's (lack of) stage presence pulls it down to D+ levels.
Slow start.
Game sucks so I've been watching Nadal/Djokovic which is much better.
Nice handball. Video notwithstanding. :P
The Italians steamrolled the Turks, good game. I wonder if it was a sign of Turkish weakness or Italian strength.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 11, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
Game sucks so I've been watching Nadal/Djokovic which is much better.
3-0 for Italy. Great second half. Not a game for band wagoners. :P
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2021, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 11, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
Game sucks so I've been watching Nadal/Djokovic which is much better.
3-0 for Italy. Great second half. Not a game for band wagoners. :P
I put the 2nd half on my laptop while Nadal/Djokovic is on the TV so I did actually watch the rest of the game :D
But this semifinal is still much better. Incredible match.
Also Taylor Twellman is a god awful commentator. I had to mute my computer :lol:
Quote from: Threviel on June 11, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
The Italians steamrolled the Turks, good game. I wonder if it was a sign of Turkish weakness or Italian strength.
Turkey certainly underwhelmed me, I had them as dark horses for the tournament and they didn't look the part at all.
Italy looked really good to me, could give a surprise to the big favourites.
Quote from: Threviel on June 11, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
The Italians steamrolled the Turks, good game. I wonder if it was a sign of Turkish weakness or Italian strength.
A bit of both, I think.
Turkey were terrible. Not sure how Italy would fare against a team quick on the break. Their high press with both full backs well up the pitch looks risky with two aged centre backs. But, hey, I'm Mancini.
A home game in the Euros. :w00t:
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
A home game in the Euros. :w00t:
Unfair advantage due to a stupid Platini idea. :P
Previous game, Switzerland-Wales in Baku (hello Platini) ended as a tie, kind of a downer for Switzerland.
Home field advantage or not, Eriksen will always deliver useless corners.
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
Home field advantage or not, Eriksen will always deliver useless corners.
That's no reason to have him lose consciousness due to a hit.
Holy shit :(
This looks very serious, if not critical. Did not see that one coming.
Is he dead?
The players are shielding him but the medics are performing cpr and shocking him.
:cry:
Get him on an ambulance wtf is happening?
:(
I think they should abandon the match and stop the coverage immediately, this spectacle has been going on too long already.
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 11:52:43 AM
Get him on an ambulance wtf is happening?
I was expecting that, even by helicopter if possible.
Eriksen's wife is weeping on the sideline this is horrible. Stop the game.
:(
Didn't look good at all. the way the covered him as they carried him out.
:cry:
Was watching the game live with the whole family. This game was my son's introduction to international football....
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 11:48:54 AM
Is he dead?
Based on look on his face when he was on the ground I would guess so :(
Quote from: HVC on June 12, 2021, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 11:48:54 AM
Is he dead?
Based on look on his face when he was on the ground I would guess so :(
Commentators over here mentioned he was intubated, so that would mean stabilized.
:cry:
Bbc likening it to Fabrice Muamba who had a heart attack whilst playing for Bolton. He was dead an hour though pulled through.
Fingers crossed for him.
I wasn't watching though must have been quite a shock.
What's your son make of it Jacob?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2021, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 12, 2021, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 11:48:54 AM
Is he dead?
Based on look on his face when he was on the ground I would guess so :(
Commentators over here mentioned he was intubated, so that would mean stabilized.
UEFA confirming he's been stabilised and at the hospital.
Well, that's good news. Tournament is over for him I guess but if he has no sequels, that will do.
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
A home game in the Euros. :w00t:
Not quite the party we had hoped for.
Quote from: Tyr on June 12, 2021, 12:27:14 PM
What's your son make of it Jacob?
"Is he dead?"
"I don't know."
I think I'm probably more traumatized, since it's a bit less real to him.
Glad to hear Eriksen has stabilized. It looked pretty grim.
Game resuming in 25 minutes from the 40th minute. :huh:
Appears to be the player's decision.
Monumental error to play this game tonight.
Yeah that wasn't quite what I'd hoped for.
As expected, Belgium were much superior to Russia.
First upset of the tournament was Finland winning vs Denmark in Copenhagen, but given the circumstances that's rather anecdotical.
Yeah, really weird it went ahead. Can't expect the Danes to have had their head in the game at all.
Had they gotten news he was OK yet?
Quote from: Tyr on June 12, 2021, 04:15:29 PM
Yeah, really weird it went ahead. Can't expect the Danes to have had their head in the game at all.
Had they gotten news he was OK yet?
From what I've heard it was Eriksen himself telling the team to finish the match.
Quote from: Tyr on June 12, 2021, 04:15:29 PM
Yeah, really weird it went ahead. Can't expect the Danes to have had their head in the game at all.
Had they gotten news he was OK yet?
Yes, he Facetimed with the team from the hospital, told them he was ok and asked them to play the rest of the game.
Players were given the choice of either playing tonight or tomorrow morning before 12 and so picked the former.
Quote from: Liep on June 12, 2021, 02:10:12 PM
Monumental error to play this game tonight.
I can understand wanting to play on, yeah, but I think they should have waited a day.
So... England starts two right backs and no left back? :hmm:
Quote from: The Larch on June 13, 2021, 07:05:22 AM
So... England starts two right backs and no left back? :hmm:
that's England for you.
Quote from: Josephus on June 13, 2021, 07:36:44 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 13, 2021, 07:05:22 AM
So... England starts two right backs and no left back? :hmm:
that's England for you.
Does not seem to harm them, for now.
Well, the worst was not over for Croatia, 1st 20 mins of the first half, 1-0 for England when Croatia was starting to slow the game.
BBC pundits show the enthusiasm and praise that's mandatory after every non-terrible England performance but I have seen little to be overly optimistic about. Croatia was weak and yet it was a fairly boring 1-0.
Didn't see the game as I was travelling - but just wanted to say how glad I am Eriksen appears to be okay. I was watching that game and it was traumatic to see.
Really horrendous. Although the Danish players shielding him and the Finnish fans chanting "Christian" with the Danish fans responding "Eriksen" were really moving
Really nice Austrian goal
Macedonian goal is less orthodox but valid too. :P
More entertaining than the England v Croatia game.
Pleasant game. A bit cruel for the Macedonians, but the Austrian victory seems deserved despite some fumbling.
Yeah Austria started off a bit awkward in the offensive zone, but deserved the win.
I'm on holiday right now in Florida but I feel bad for missing these games :(
Florida doesn't have TVs? :unsure:
Hup Nederlands! Entertaining, will enjoy seeing them going down glorously in flames.
Quote from: Threviel on June 13, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
Hup Nederlands! Entertaining, will enjoy seeing them going down glorously in flames.
Too soon. Albeit there is the Frank de Boer factor.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2021, 03:16:59 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 13, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
Hup Nederlands! Entertaining, will enjoy seeing them going down glorously in flames.
Too soon. Albeit there is the Frank de Boer factor.
Netherlands have always been a favourite of mine, but damn, it must be heart breaking to be dutch.
Nice goal by Ukraine. The Dutch were really dominating for a while but were surprised. Great for the end of the game.
Tie by Ukraine on a set-piece.
Quote from: Threviel on June 13, 2021, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2021, 03:16:59 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 13, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
Hup Nederlands! Entertaining, will enjoy seeing them going down glorously in flames.
Too soon. Albeit there is the Frank de Boer factor.
Netherlands have always been a favourite of mine, but damn, it must be heart breaking to be dutch.
From you mouth to gods ear :lol: I picked NL win but can't say I'm displeased with the result so far.
LOL
Damn, that went south real quick. Well, at least they qualified.
3-2 for Batavians now. :D Where and how is our Batavian poster? :lol:
WOW.
great game btw
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2021, 03:43:08 PM
3-2 for Batavians now. :D Where and how is our Batavian poster? :lol:
At home, TV was on but I was mostly doing other things. I'm still not into this tournament.
Really nice first goal by the Ukrainians, a bit cruel they didn't get a point out of it.
We should be able to get out of the group stage now, right? :lol: :ph34r:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 13, 2021, 03:47:51 PM
WOW.
great game btw
Very much one for the neutral :lol: :wub:
Quote from: Maladict on June 13, 2021, 04:08:03 PM
Really nice first goal by the Ukrainians, a bit cruel they didn't get a point out of it.
We should be able to get out of the group stage now, right? :lol: :ph34r:
Unless Batavians lose the next two games, yes.
Total aside but this is kind of a lovely detail from The Times on Sterling scoring in a tournament in his home stadium :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3ymH2tXEA0S3AJ?format=jpg&name=medium)
Some groaning about the Austrian gear this year - black (former color of chancellor Kurz's ÖVP) and turquoise (current ÖVP color). One possible explanation is that the colors are a negative image of the Austrian colors. Which raises the question if Kurz picked turquoise for his cult party because it was basically the anti-red? :hmm:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3xkW_DX0AkdgOz?format=png&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3ysQVaXwAUGLnr?format=jpg&name=medium)
Austrian colours were indeed horrible with Macedonian colours closer to the Austrian game.
Pleasant game though, which is what matters.
Quote from: Syt on June 13, 2021, 11:29:34 PM
Some groaning about the Austrian gear this year - black (former color of chancellor Kurz's ÖVP) and turquoise (current ÖVP color). One possible explanation is that the colors are a negative image of the Austrian colors. Which raises the question if Kurz picked turquoise for his cult party because it was basically the anti-red? :hmm:
I was actually wondering what the hell was Austria's away kit and who was the idiot that designed it, hadn't made the association with Kurz and his fondness for turquoise (I learned that from Bohmermann's report on him).
Austria's colours jolted me almost as much as the TikTok ads on the boards. Are they aiming for the preteen girls market?
Quote from: Josephus on June 14, 2021, 06:42:04 AM
Austria's colours jolted me almost as much as the TikTok ads on the boards. Are they aiming for the preteen girls market?
Tik Tok is the main sponsor for the tournament. Yeah, it's weird.
Scottish commentary can get savage - "yeah, he's picked because he's never let Scotland down when pla.....Well he might have with that first touch" :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 13, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
Total aside but this is kind of a lovely detail from The Times on Sterling scoring in a tournament in his home stadium :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttcom%2Fmedia%2FE3ymH2tXEA0S3AJ%3Fformat%3Djpg%26amp%3Bname%3Dmedium&hash=17911c0f3f2260025f7502dd4e9f2805da68f780)
Thats cute
Last two games between Czechia and Scotland ended in victory for the Scots, but Czechs used to be a much better team. :hmm: This will be a close affair in any case.
1-0 for the Czechs before half-time. :hmm: Wrong pick so far.
Very likely Goal of the Tournament for the Czechs: 2-0.
A bit unfair for the Scots, but it is perfectly legit. From the middle of the terrain, strong and precise shot.
My pick: :lol:
that was shick bro
Not that I am watching, since it's a workday over here, but Scotts deserve A for effort, it's just that the Czechs are better.
Scottish kick and rush tactics plus not so-great skill with ball is not enough vs tactically-wise and skilled Czechs indeed.
Kurwa mach
Good day for Czechoslovakia.
Spain XI confirmed, and Pedri will start. He will become the youngest ever Spanish player to play in a big tournament (Euro or WC), at 18 yo, 6 months and 20 days, replacing Cesc.
This is going to be a massacre. :cry:
It's very sportsmanlike of the Spaniards to sometimes pass their own goalie, improves the statistics of which half the action is on.
This is ridiculously one sided for a 0-0
Spain has no defense, they'll get clobbered when they go up against a good team.
This is the most boring game so far. Spain doesn't run and Sweden has been wasting time and playing for the tie since the start.
Did you expect a game with Spain to be entertaining?
Sweden has been training psychologically with watching paint dry for hours to withstand the sheer boredom of Spain passing the ball in the back line.
Well sure, but how the hell did SWE even qualify playing like that...
Unsure. Blind luck?
This is the most sterile 80% possession game I've seen in memory...
Why blame Sweden here? Not losing is more important than winning.
I hate anti-jeu
Nice to see Sweden being unsportsmanlike and wasting time. Not like us normally, but nice to see Spain get some of its own medicine.
Glad I didn't post my half-time hot take because it would have aged badly :lol:
This is like the worst of Spain :(
Jesus H fucking Christ. That felt good.
Hopes of Poland kept alive!
New generation of players, same old problems for Spain. Too much sterile posession and not enough incisiveness, but without Xavi or Iniesta to split a defence with a sharp pass and a somehow shaky defence (Isak being subbed off was a godsend for Spain in this sense). The more directness of the last 15 minutes or so was welcome, but the Swedish keeper was really good in the couple of clear shots created during that time. Let's hope that Luís Enrique learns from this and tweaks the team for the next game.
Quote from: Threviel on June 14, 2021, 03:42:57 PM
Nice to see Sweden being unsportsmanlike and wasting time. Not like us normally, but nice to see Spain get some of its own medicine.
:yawn: and :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Larch on June 14, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
:yawn: and :rolleyes:
Fair enough :lol:. I do have an unnatural dislike for Spanish football, that tiki-taka shit a decade ago instilled a deep and thorough disgust and I don't think that will go away.
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2021, 01:11:08 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 14, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
:yawn: and :rolleyes:
Fair enough :lol:. I do have an unnatural dislike for Spanish football, that tiki-taka shit a decade ago instilled a deep and thorough disgust and I don't think that will go away.
Git good and they can't tiki-taka against you. :p
I need to figure out a stream to actually watch a game whilst I work.
Don't forget, since the pandemic has been declared to be over in Hungary (more like, the government said, "we have half the population with first round of vaccine shot, we wash our hands"), Hungary-Portugal will be the first match you'll see at full stadium capacity.
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2021, 02:51:52 AM
Don't forget, since the pandemic has been declared to be over in Hungary (more like, the government said, "we have half the population with first round of vaccine shot, we wash our hands"), Hungary-Portugal will be the first match you'll see at full stadium capacity.
Portugal being taken off the green list suddenly makes sense.
Dirty, dirty Hungarians.
(https://preview.redd.it/16sqr5pqle571.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ab8693fd03cc31d6cbd5f21cada6e101d0e667aa)
"How lucky we are to only battle each other in football anymore."
(The image is a callback to Kohl and Mitterrand paying their respects at Verdun.)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/002A/production/_96524000_hi040089719.jpg)
Big story today is that Braithwaite and our coach is out criticising UEFA for forcing the players to play that night or at 12 the day after not giving them enough time to process almost losing their teammate.
Someone not involved with the team should have decided to delay it at least 24 hours and not leaving it up to them. They said today they weren't mentally ready to play or even decide when to play.
UEFA says it wasn't a problem.
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2021, 05:25:07 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/16sqr5pqle571.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ab8693fd03cc31d6cbd5f21cada6e101d0e667aa)
"How lucky we are to only battle each other in football anymore."
(The image is a callback to Kohl and Mitterrand paying their respects at Verdun.)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/002A/production/_96524000_hi040089719.jpg)
Pity that night in Seville in 1982 made it for naught, preemptively. :P
Quote from: Liep on June 15, 2021, 05:29:52 AM
Big story today is that Braithwaite and our coach is out criticising UEFA for forcing the players to play that night or at 12 the day after not giving them enough time to process almost losing their teammate.
Someone not involved with the team should have decided to delay it at least 24 hours and not leaving it up to them. They said today they weren't mentally ready to play or even decide when to play.
UEFA says it wasn't a problem.
It was a dick move from UEFA (they are scum, news at 11, luckily English football fans saved them from losing their Champions League profits), but coming out with the complaints after they lost the match is a bit of a low form as well. You had an extraordinary event, scumbags pressured you to take it on the chin, you chose to take it on the chin, so now take it on the chin.
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2021, 05:43:25 AM
It was a dick move from UEFA (they are scum, news at 11, luckily English football fans saved them from losing their Champions League profits), but coming out with the complaints after they lost the match is a bit of a low form as well. You had an extraordinary event, scumbags pressured you to take it on the chin, you chose to take it on the chin, so now take it on the chin.
It definitely reads like an excuse but the coach said it was him who was to blame so he does take responsibility for the decision.
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2021, 01:11:08 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 14, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
:yawn: and :rolleyes:
Fair enough :lol:. I do have an unnatural dislike for Spanish football, that tiki-taka shit a decade ago instilled a deep and thorough disgust and I don't think that will go away.
And I think that's ridiculous, having such a reaction to a style of playing the game. There are a million ways to play, and none is the "right" one, each team will play to their strengths and to hide their weaknesses in order to win. Can Spain sometimes be boring? Of course, but it's also in part a consequence of the way teams play against them, all on the defensive looking simply at not losing and maybe getting something in a lucky break, just like Sweden did yesterday. I mean, when the coach took Isak off you knew that winning the match was not his first priority.
In summary, please be more open minded about the different styles of playing the game and recognize that sometimes teams are forced into a certain style by their situation and oposition. :)
Tiki-Taka really degenerated from the high point of 2008 though. It was not boring back then, but then players were better. Not great in 2010, IMO.
Is Real Madrid really that bad as a team for not having players in the national squad? :P
Hey, I was watching those horrible 2008-2012 championships :yuk: and Barcelona :yuk: and Real Madrid :yuk:.
Please let me have my irrational baseless antipathies in peace thank you very much. :moon:
Do you actually watch the games? Because Real Madrid not that big on tiki-taka, for instance.
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2021, 06:29:29 AM
Hey, I was watching those horrible 2008-2012 championships :yuk: and Barcelona :yuk: and Real Madrid :yuk:.
Please let me have my irrational baseless antipathies in peace thank you very much. :moon:
You must really enjoy being irrationally close minded because you're putting together things that are very different. Spain in 2008 didn't play at all like Spain in 2012, and Real Madrid were never a tiki taka kind of team. If you just want to bunch together anything Spanish feel free, but you're opening yourself for ridicule and derision.
Yeah I think it's pretty awful behaviour by UEFA. Given what happened in that match I don't see the issue with calling it off and giving both sides a point.
When it did re-start and we were told that the players had agreed to re-start the match, it made me think of the concussion rules. The players aren't in the right condition/state of mind to make that decision after that trauma. It needs to be taken out of their hands by responsible people - but it wasn't.
And I've said before but we've had a concertina-ed season, we're having the Euros, we're adding games to the European competitions and we've got a World Cup in January before finishing the season. It could not be clearer that the people who run football do not give a shit about the welfare of players and I get that, at the top level, they're millionaires but I still feel like they can't just be physically rinsed every 3 days for the best part of 2-3 years without suffering health consequences.
But UEFA/FIFA/the national leagues need their money <_<
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jun/15/david-squires-on-real-heroes-and-euro-2020s-big-kick-off
Quote from: The Larch on June 15, 2021, 06:59:29 AM
You must really enjoy being irrationally close minded because you're putting together things that are very different. Spain in 2008 didn't play at all like Spain in 2012, and Real Madrid were never a tiki taka kind of team. If you just want to bunch together anything Spanish feel free, but you're opening yourself for ridicule and derision.
Spain and Barcelona for tiki-taka shenanigans and Real for being too dominant.
FFS everyone goes around disliking teams right and left, Chelsea and Man City are constantly mocked. Italy used to be despised by almost everyone (shades of '82), Portugal is despised (due to Pepe I presume). Often it's the successful teams that evoke the strongest feelings. To have likes and dislikes in football is nothing special. It's not usually based on facts, statistics and research but rather feelings.
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2021, 07:54:51 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jun/15/david-squires-on-real-heroes-and-euro-2020s-big-kick-off
God I love David Squires :lol:
I would like to add France and Germany to the rightfully despised teams :p
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2021, 07:55:48 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 15, 2021, 06:59:29 AM
You must really enjoy being irrationally close minded because you're putting together things that are very different. Spain in 2008 didn't play at all like Spain in 2012, and Real Madrid were never a tiki taka kind of team. If you just want to bunch together anything Spanish feel free, but you're opening yourself for ridicule and derision.
Spain and Barcelona for tiki-taka shenanigans and Real for being too dominant.
FFS everyone goes around disliking teams right and left, Chelsea and Man City are constantly mocked. Italy used to be despised by almost everyone (shades of '82), Portugal is despised (due to Pepe I presume). Often it's the successful teams that evoke the strongest feelings. To have likes and dislikes in football is nothing special. It's not usually based on facts, statistics and research but rather feelings.
Disliking is one thing, despising is another. We all have our preferences but to have those levels of antipathy feel ridiculous to me.
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2021, 07:55:48 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 15, 2021, 06:59:29 AM
You must really enjoy being irrationally close minded because you're putting together things that are very different. Spain in 2008 didn't play at all like Spain in 2012, and Real Madrid were never a tiki taka kind of team. If you just want to bunch together anything Spanish feel free, but you're opening yourself for ridicule and derision.
Spain and Barcelona for tiki-taka shenanigans and Real for being too dominant.
FFS everyone goes around disliking teams right and left, Chelsea and Man City are constantly mocked. Italy used to be despised by almost everyone (shades of '82), Portugal is despised (due to Pepe I presume). Often it's the successful teams that evoke the strongest feelings. To have likes and dislikes in football is nothing special. It's not usually based on facts, statistics and research but rather feelings.
So Pepe does or rather did crap with Real Madrid, somewhat favored by referees like Barça and Atleti, over smaller teams (the real problem), so this means it's ok to despise the whole national team? Wow. :lol:
Hey, I'm just reporting, I have no beef with Portugal, it was just one example. As Tamas says, I could have used France or Germany or Argentina or Uruguay or lots of other teams as examples.
And you are correct Larchie, I don't really care enough to despise, that's just hyperbolic language of the moment.
What is the point of football, international especially, except for indulging in hyperboles and inappropriate cultural generalisations? :huh:
The Lazy Hungarian is right!
Pandemic is off, football is on!
(https://assets.4cdn.hu/kraken/7c9PNfAAnr9Mzef6s.jpeg?format=auto&width=763&height=511)
Losing is gonna hurt today.
Gotta agree with the arrogant Swede there. Euros/Mondials Football is the perfect time where crass remarks and hyperbole against a whole country are allowed.
Everybody on earth was shitting on Italy's catenaccio back then. Everybody mocks England's "This is the year!" every tournament. Part and parcel.
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2021, 10:10:16 AM
What is the point of football, international especially, except for indulging in hyperboles and inappropriate cultural generalisations? :huh:
Yes - and especially as club football has been levelled to often quite similar styles of play excellently executed it is a nice palate cleanser.
QuoteEverybody on earth was shitting on Italy's catenaccio back then. Everybody mocks England's "This is the year!" every tournament. Part and parcel.
And mocks the inevitable English response: "it's ironic" :lol: :P
Also I love when teams play to their national stereotype - nothing pleases me more than seeing Italy score a goal in the 17th minute and then shut up shop. It may not be enjoyable to watch but I'm glad it's happening.
And with football stereotypes I think they often do come from somewhere - and I think they're fine as long as they're being celebrated and not used as just a reason to attack another culture. You know, I associate a certain type of snide shithousery with Argentina and Uruguay (Lamela and Suarez spring to mind as someone who watches the Premier League) and I love it when they get away with something that's technically not allowed. I enjoy it if the Dutch have massive arguments. Nothing is more disappointing than a defensive, dour Brazil or a disjointed performance by Germany. There's a delight in seeing Sweden come out with a compact 4-4-2. We all, secretly, want Hungary to come out with some dazzling tiki-taka before it's time football etc :wub:
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 10:33:01 AM
Gotta agree with the arrogant Swede there. Euros/Mondials Football is the perfect time where crass remarks and hyperbole against a whole country are allowed.
Everybody on earth was shitting on Italy's catenaccio back then. Everybody mocks England's "This is the year!" every tournament. Part and parcel.
Footixerie ? :yawn:
QuoteAnd with football stereotypes I think they often do come from somewhere - and I think they're fine as long as they're being celebrated and not used as just a reason to attack another culture. You know, I associate a certain type of snide shithousery with Argentina and Uruguay (Lamela and Suarez spring to mind as someone who watches the Premier League) and I love it when they get away with something that's technically not allowed. I enjoy it if the Dutch have massive arguments. Nothing is more disappointing than a defensive, dour Brazil or a disjointed performance by Germany. There's a delight in seeing Sweden come out with a compact 4-4-2. We all, secretly, want Hungary to come out with some dazzling tiki-taka before it's time football etc :wub:
I draw the line at my abhorrence for racism in all its forms at Argentina.
Cheating bastards.
:lmfao:
:lol: I love them :blush:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2021, 10:43:52 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2021, 10:10:16 AM
What is the point of football, international especially, except for indulging in hyperboles and inappropriate cultural generalisations? :huh:
Yes - and especially as club football has been levelled to often quite similar styles of play excellently executed it is a nice palate cleanser.
QuoteEverybody on earth was shitting on Italy's catenaccio back then. Everybody mocks England's "This is the year!" every tournament. Part and parcel.
And mocks the inevitable English response: "it's ironic" :lol: :P
Also I love when teams play to their national stereotype - nothing pleases me more than seeing Italy score a goal in the 17th minute and then shut up shop. It may not be enjoyable to watch but I'm glad it's happening.
And with football stereotypes I think they often do come from somewhere - and I think they're fine as long as they're being celebrated and not used as just a reason to attack another culture. You know, I associate a certain type of snide shithousery with Argentina and Uruguay (Lamela and Suarez spring to mind as someone who watches the Premier League) and I love it when they get away with something that's technically not allowed. I enjoy it if the Dutch have massive arguments. Nothing is more disappointing than a defensive, dour Brazil or a disjointed performance by Germany. There's a delight in seeing Sweden come out with a compact 4-4-2. We all, secretly, want Hungary to come out with some dazzling tiki-taka before it's time football etc :wub:
Indeed. One of my all-time favorite moments was the Suarez handball in the 2010 World Cup against Ghana. Seeing him celebrate as the penalty was saved was incredible :D Such a Uruguay performance and people were absolutely apoplectic.
In that sense it's funny how the Spanish stereotype/footballing identity has changed so radically and so quickly, as before 2008 our footballing personality was anything but tiki taka.
Yeah, let us all pray that Spain for ever continues with their pre-2008 level of success.
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Yeah, let us all pray that Spain for ever continues with their pre-2008 level of success.
:secret:
They won an Euro pre-2008.
This is turning like the Spain-Sweden game yesterday, without pure tiki-taka but with Morata-like efficiency. :frusty:
Hungary is going to score a last minute goal at this rate.
Well, that took a while.
Woo. 2-0 is misleading, but i'll take it
Quote from: The Larch on June 15, 2021, 12:41:41 PM
Well, that took a while.
Always better than Spain yesterday. :P
But Carvalho is slow as hell as a midfielder, good passing nonetheless; Renato Sanches and André Silva enter, and goal by Guerreiro, no less. :D
Attacking substitutions 10 minutes before the end, typical Fernando Santos.
Quote from: HVC on June 15, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Woo. 2-0 is misleading, but i'll take it
3-0 is unfair, to be honest.
Quote from: The Larch on June 15, 2021, 11:17:54 AM
In that sense it's funny how the Spanish stereotype/footballing identity has changed so radically and so quickly, as before 2008 our footballing personality was anything but tiki taka.
Yeah - it's incredible how it goes from la furia roja to tiki-taka. But I think it's the combination of the transformation of that Spanish team plus the era of dominance by Spanish clubs and, especially, Pep's Barcelona.
I can't think of a similar transformation - I mean from what I understand Bielsa basically created Chile's football identity but that's different than transformation. I think it needs success and possibly a club representative. Nicky Bandini mentioned that in Italy they're describing the way they're playinig as tiki-Italia so maybe if they do really well this tournament and in the World Cup we'll all change our impressions of Italy :lol:
Incidentally - Syt, Zanza!
What is the deal with Germany?
From everything I've heard on UK podcasts from journalists who cover Germany - their basic consensus is that it's a team full of talented players. On paper they should be very good, but they play as individuals not as a team. Is that right? And what's caused it? Is it sort of club rivalries (like the England squad used to be divided between United v Liverpool players who hated each other) or generational or just personality clashes (going Dutch)?
I have no idea. I only know they're playing today because Slitherine is doing a France v Germany stream of Field of Glory II: Medieval :D
Good for Portugal. I always cheer for them :) Ronaldo still a beast at 36. Pepe seems to have calmed down his antics. I really liked the sub for Renato Sanches.
They've got a very good team and despite him now playing for Liverpool, I really like Jota as a player.
Score predictions for FRA-GER?
2-1 pour les Bleus.
No idea. I used to be a fervent football follower in the 90s Watchung Bundesliga every weekend, visiting the national team in Malente etc.
I became less and less interested as time went by.
These days I barely know the players. No idea if they are a good team or not.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
Score predictions for FRA-GER?
2-1 pour les Bleus.
I put 2-1 for Germany in my betting group. Although I also tipped France to win the tournament. Maybe I will change my tip still. :hmm:
Draw, 1-1.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 15, 2021, 01:31:04 PM
Draw, 1-1.
Same. Don't know why but I think France will start slow and I think Germany is probably better than people currently think.
Quote from: Zanza on June 15, 2021, 01:27:33 PM
No idea. I used to be a fervent football follower in the 90s Watchung Bundesliga every weekend, visiting the national team in Malente etc.
Same. I peaked when a friend and I went to the stadium to watch Bayern Munich (my team at the time) take the championship in Hamburg in the 00/01 season in one of the most exciting league finishes. Since then I lost interest and it accelerated A LOT when I moved to Austria. There's occasional flare ups, but nothing lasting.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
Score predictions for FRA-GER?
2-1 pour les Bleus.
7-0 :w00t:
Ok yeah 2-1. That works.
I picked France-Germany as a draw.
I changed my tip last minute to 2-1 for France. :frog:
Bad luck for Hummels, but Mbappe was right behind him.
So Rudiger is the European Suarez? Why the hell did he bite Pogba and why didn't VAR see it?
Mbappe v. Hummels :lol:
Mbappe is just straight up a cheat code by himself.
And did they dismiss VAR? That looked like a pretty clear penalty
WOOOOOO!!!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Battle_of_Jena.jpg/1024px-Battle_of_Jena.jpg)
Heh. Celebrated that goal bit prematurely as it turns out. Fortunately I did not jinx the whole match when it was disallowed.
Fortunately they held on.
Germany looked toothless. I can see Hungary putting one over them.
The Germans really needed to make their way wide through Belgium instead of going deep into the Maginot.
Deserved win I'd say, more or less. That 2nd "offside" was really... dubious.
That Mbappe penalty not whistled was kinda crazy.
France looked much stronger than Germany.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 03:59:02 PM
Deserved win I'd say, more or less. That 2nd "offside" was really... dubious.
I think it was offside - but I also don't think offside shouldn't matter if it's a really good goal :ph34r:
QuoteThat Mbappe penalty not whistled was kinda crazy.
Yeah - baffling. And they have VAR. I've no idea why that wasn't a penalty.
VAR really kills the drama and excitement... Was that non penalty even reviewed? At least use the damn thing for that
Mbappe's disallowed goal was disgustingly good. Alas, it has ascended to that place in heaven where disallowed goals reside.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 04:16:00 PM
VAR really kills the drama and excitement... Was that non penalty even reviewed? At least use the damn thing for that
Yeah - I've no idea. I don't know if they're letting people in the stadium know if they're doing checks but it certainly wasn't mentioned on the commentary here and normally in the Premier or Champions' League and other European leagues I've watched it says that VAR's checking and you get loads of replays - so no idea.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 03:59:02 PM
Deserved win I'd say, more or less. That 2nd "offside" was really... dubious.
That Mbappe penalty not whistled was kinda crazy.
Seemed pretty clear on TV replay. Earlier, possible penalty, yes, OTOH.
What ethnicity is Kai Havertz?
What's with the German with the mask? The bitey dude?
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2021, 04:05:51 AM
What's with the German with the mask? The bitey dude?
I missed the bite. :pinch:
AFAIK he suffered a small fracture in the face during the end of the season and he has to wear the mask for protection.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2021, 12:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 15, 2021, 11:17:54 AM
In that sense it's funny how the Spanish stereotype/footballing identity has changed so radically and so quickly, as before 2008 our footballing personality was anything but tiki taka.
Nicky Bandini mentioned that in Italy they're describing the way they're playinig as tiki-Italia so maybe if they do really well this tournament and in the World Cup we'll all change our impressions of Italy :lol:
Italy is an interesting case, as Italian football has evolved quite a lot in the last few years or so, both at the national team under Mancini and in the clubs for a bit longer, with their style becoming much more attacking and positive than traditionally, but their association with catenaccio is still so strong that for international audiences it somehow doesn't feel quite right to see the current Italy playing, as it doesn't fit at all with their stereotype.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2021, 01:04:08 PMWhat is the deal with Germany?
AFAIK the national team has been in a bit of a (relative) shambles since their humiliation in the 2018 WC, being eliminated in the group stage for the first time ever. Löw, who has been quite under pressure lately and will step down from the national team after this Euro, began to implement a forced renovation of the national team then and told a series of big name veterans (namely Müller, Hummels and Boateng) that they were not going to be part of the national team towards the future, which didn't sit well at all with the players. Since then a much younger national team has been quite unstable and unable to find a proper stable lineup, suffering a series of bad results in the last few years (defeated 6-0 by Spain in the Nations League and 1-2 at home by North Macedonia in the WC qualifying).
Löw ended up backtracking and recalling Müller and Hummels back to the team for the tournament, as they badly needed defensive solidity and a goal scoring threat up front, and has managed to create a capable starting XI, but apparently the bench is not quite as good and the talent drop if substitutes have to play is quite steep, particulary in defence.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 15, 2021, 01:14:33 PMI really liked the sub for Renato Sanches.
I'd feel very happy if Renato Sanches got vindicated in this tournament. He really impressed in 2016, when he was only 18, but his big move to Bayern kinda derailed his career and has played relatively little since then until this year, when he moved away from bayern to Lille. He should have stayed in Portugal a while longer maturing there before going to a big European club, but he was catapulted to center stage too soon.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2021, 01:16:08 PM
They've got a very good team and despite him now playing for Liverpool, I really like Jota as a player.
Heh, a sports journo from my hometown uses him as a sign of the scouting failures of my team, as Jota played for a few years in a small club in northern Portugal (Paços de Ferreira) were he could have been easily scooped by my team if they had been smart enough before he entered the big club circuit.
Quote from: The Larch on June 16, 2021, 04:46:08 AM
I'd feel very happy if Renato Sanches got vindicated in this tournament. He really impressed in 2016, when he was only 18, but his big move to Bayern kinda derailed his career and has played relatively little since then until this year, when he moved away from bayern to Lille. He should have stayed in Portugal a while longer maturing there before going to a big European club, but he was catapulted to center stage too soon.
Easy, Benfica was in need of money, and lots of money was too difficult to resist.
Quote
They've got a very good team and despite him now playing for Liverpool, I really like Jota as a player.
Quote
Heh, a sports journo from my hometown uses him as a sign of the scouting failures of my team, as Jota played for a few years in a small club in northern Portugal (Paços de Ferreira) were he could have been easily scooped by my team if they had been smart enough before he entered the big club circuit.
Paços de Ferreira is a small club, but plays often in the first division of Portuguese football. I suppose it's also a failure of Porto, (30 km of Paços de Ferreira) but maybe he was already too expensive and/or Mendes was around. :P
Paços is supposed to play the new Conference League European Cup.
Finland just needs to tie [spoiler]to hold the Mannerheim line[/spoiler]to qualify for the round of 16. :whistle:
Finland have a guy named O'Shaugnes on their team. I'm guessing his ancestors were captured during a Viking raid.
Quote from: Josephus on June 16, 2021, 10:45:09 AM
Finland have a guy named O'Shaugnes on their team. I'm guessing his ancestors were captured during a Viking raid.
And an Ivanov, a Taylor and a Hradecky, busy vik....recruiters. :P
Quite enjoying this :hmm:
Edit: Although horrendous technical issues with the UEFA feed - and because of covid that's the only feed available for broadcasters.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 16, 2021, 11:20:12 AM
Quite enjoying this :hmm:
Edit: Although horrendous technical issues with the UEFA feed - and because of covid that's the only feed available for broadcasters.
4K feed on the sports TV had some issues early on, as in sound and image disappearing, but has improved today. :)
Penalty missed by Gareth Bale; would have killed the game. More golf than anything else lately?
:o Cymru am byth! :w00t:
Edit: And - I think they're likely to play Russia/Finland/Denmark if they get through, while England will likely face France/Germany/Portugal. So Wales probably have a better chance of getting into the QFs (again) than England :lol:
For being a 'dark horse' Turkey making a strong case for being one of the worst teams in the tournament :lol:
Well deserved, Pays de Galles. Turkey has looked terrible almost the whole game.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 16, 2021, 12:58:02 PM
For being a 'dark horse' Turkey making a strong case for being one of the worst teams in the tournament :lol:
I have never felt so misled by journalists <_<
Their big dude up front looked heavy, slow and old. Almost no movement on the wings. Plus they had the crowd on their side. Just a terrible showing, pretty sure heads Will roll on the Turkish team.
Erdogan will have the coach strangled with a silk cord.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 16, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
Their big dude up front looked heavy, slow and old. Almost no movement on the wings. Plus they had the crowd on their side. Just a terrible showing, pretty sure heads Will roll on the Turkish team.
Yilmaz?
That's enough to be ™Ligue des Talents™ champion. :P
That assist was perfect.
Quote from: Liep on June 16, 2021, 02:27:36 PM
That assist was perfect.
Yeah, Italy are really the superior team out there. They seem so calm and under control, even when it's Switzerland the ones attacking and dominating the ball.
Italy might be my favourites this time.
So it seems turkey are awful.
Stuff I'd read had them pegged as dark horses with the potential to even be shock winners.
Now that's some hard core pressing by Switzerland!
Ok, the Swiss are done.
Quote from: The Larch on June 16, 2021, 03:09:58 PM
Ok, the Swiss are done.
And again I'm very glad to see Italy back - and looking ominous.
Locatelli pricing himself out of a move to Juve :lol:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 16, 2021, 03:16:11 PM
Locatelli pricing himself out of a move to Juve :lol:
He's certainly not staying in Sassuolo. :lol:
The Swiss looked powerless didn't they. Also stop selecting Shaquiri. The man looks thoroughly disinterested.
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So it seems turkey are awful.
Stuff I'd read had them pegged as dark horses with the potential to even be shock winners.
All our hopes for a young interesting team to be dark horses now rest on Ukraine :w00t:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 16, 2021, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So it seems turkey are awful.
Stuff I'd read had them pegged as dark horses with the potential to even be shock winners.
All our hopes for a young interesting team to be dark horses now rest on Ukraine :w00t:
Now you've gone and doomed them! :weep:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 16, 2021, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So it seems turkey are awful.
Stuff I'd read had them pegged as dark horses with the potential to even be shock winners.
All our hopes for a young interesting team to be dark horses now rest on Ukraine :w00t:
I still hope for a cheeky North Macedonian upset. :P
I said young :P
Way too many teams in these tournaments these days.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 16, 2021, 04:57:33 PM
Way too many teams in these tournaments these days.
Wait until they make the World Cup 48 teans from 2026 with 16 groups of 3 :yuk:
Eriksen will have an "ICD" inserted because of his heart condition. Anyone here know if that will end his career or let him keep playing?
Quote from: Gups on June 17, 2021, 03:14:53 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 16, 2021, 04:57:33 PM
Way too many teams in these tournaments these days.
Wait until they make the World Cup 48 teans from 2026 with 16 groups of 3 :yuk:
I love the knock out phase so am looking forward to the round of 32 smasher Costa Rica vs. Iran
Quote from: Liep on June 17, 2021, 03:57:55 AM
Eriksen will have an "ICD" inserted because of his heart condition. Anyone here know if that will end his career or let him keep playing?
His career, at least at an elite level, was over the moment he lost conciousness, most likely.
Quote from: The Larch on June 17, 2021, 04:05:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 17, 2021, 03:57:55 AM
Eriksen will have an "ICD" inserted because of his heart condition. Anyone here know if that will end his career or let him keep playing?
His career, at least at an elite level, was over the moment he lost conciousness, most likely.
Daley Blind has an ICD and is still playing for the Dutch team
Quote from: miozozny on June 17, 2021, 04:13:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 17, 2021, 04:05:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 17, 2021, 03:57:55 AM
Eriksen will have an "ICD" inserted because of his heart condition. Anyone here know if that will end his career or let him keep playing?
His career, at least at an elite level, was over the moment he lost conciousness, most likely.
Daley Blind has an ICD and is still playing for the Dutch team
The issue is not having an ICD or not, but having lost consciousness and getting reanimated.
Section 6, article 58b of the FIFA bylaws I believe. Reanimated corpses are not eligible for participation in international competition. This clause was inserted after Haiti narrowly missed out on qualification for the 1958 World Cup.
Quote from: Liep on June 17, 2021, 04:03:01 AM
Quote from: Gups on June 17, 2021, 03:14:53 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 16, 2021, 04:57:33 PM
Way too many teams in these tournaments these days.
Wait until they make the World Cup 48 teans from 2026 with 16 groups of 3 :yuk:
I love the knock out phase so am looking forward to the round of 32 smasher Costa Rica vs. Iran
Actually, Ticos are not bad and made it once to quarters finals. :contract:
Quote from: The Larch on June 16, 2021, 04:01:33 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 16, 2021, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So it seems turkey are awful.
Stuff I'd read had them pegged as dark horses with the potential to even be shock winners.
All our hopes for a young interesting team to be dark horses now rest on Ukraine :w00t:
I still hope for a cheeky North Macedonian upset. :P
OK, Valmy. 2-0 for Ukraine before half-time.
They can still win with the spirit of Alexander the Great running through their veins.
Spirit of ™Cultural Appropriation™ works within limits, 2-1 for Ukraine and a, not so legit IMO, penalty defended by the West Bulgarian [spoiler]Slav-[/spoiler]Macedonian goal keeper.
Phalanx falls with honour.
Ukraine don't look too bad. I mean they won't get far but they seem more than a mere filler team.
Quote from: Tamas on June 17, 2021, 10:07:29 AM
Ukraine don't look too bad. I mean they won't get far but they seem more than a mere filler team.
they should beat Austria, and clinch second place
Pesky Danes scoring on their first chance, Diables Rouges were probably still not fully waken up from the early afternoon siesta. Liep's pick wrong for now. :P
I can't feel good about this until the game is over, but so far so good.
That was lovely.
Fuck!
Nice goal though :(
Equalizer by Belgium. Blame Jacob! :lol:
KdB makes a difference, and he is not in top form, for obvious reasons.
come on belgium!
also, Arnautovic is banned for one game for Austria after he said to a Macedonian player ""I'm fucking your Albanian mother"
Quote from: HVC on June 17, 2021, 12:19:14 PM
come on belgium!
also, Arnautovic is banned for one game for Austria after he said to a Macedonian player ""I'm fucking your Albanian mother"
Hilarious, Arnautovic, means son of Albanian, and he used an ethnic slur in Serbo-Croat :P, not the neutral form i.e Albanski.
Nice dive! :D
Second of the day, second yellow as well. Good refereeing.
Belgian goal just after, of course.
Another great goal :(
Yeah, Belgians woke up. What a team.
Quote from: bogh on June 17, 2021, 12:44:25 PM
Yeah, Belgians woke up. What a team.
Fell asleep again at the end, and Danes hit the bar.
Good save. 3-1 would have been unfair for Denmark.
We played well and a win against Russia could still get us through.
Quote from: Liep on June 17, 2021, 12:57:44 PM
We played well and a win against Russia could still get us through.
It was a good game. A better result would've been nice, though. Don't know how optimistic I'm feeling, but I guess it's not over until it's over.
I can see Denmark beating Russia pretty handily.
Only saw the last half hour but both teams looked good. Hope that Denmark go through, they deserve it.
Damnit, I was rooting for the Danes :mad:
Better colours for Austrian players, this time. Old ÖVP-style, for Syt. :P
I hate the Puma identi-away-kits and think they should be banned from football for a few years to learn their lesson <_<
So, Portugal or Germany in the knockout phase. That's just great.
Germany is not so tough, but you guys will have to tighten up defensively. Got a bit lucky with Austria.
Actually those third place rules are mind-numbingly complicated. If Portugal beats Germany everything is different.
Yeah that Portugal Germany game has the potential to be quite an encounter. Germany didn't look impressive at all in their game against France. Portugal have a lot of firepower.
Quote from: Gups on June 17, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Only saw the last half hour but both teams looked good. Hope that Denmark go through, they deserve it.
Denmark absolutely dominated the first half. Belgium was in charge most the 2. half.
The wonders of international tournaments. :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4JdtX0UcAIioVm?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Josephus on June 17, 2021, 08:31:31 PM
Yeah that Portugal Germany game has the potential to be quite an encounter. Germany didn't look impressive at all in their game against France. Portugal have a lot of firepower.
If the Portuguese coach can get away with a tie, he will, however, so be warned.
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 05:04:12 AM
The wonders of international tournaments. :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4JdtX0UcAIioVm?format=jpg&name=medium)
Someone needs to remind them , they're NORTH Macedonians.
OMFG PROOF OF SLAVIC IRREDENTALISM CONFIRMED.
:hug:
(https://i.sohn.dk/E4JdtX0UcAIioVm.jpg)
Quote from: Tyr on June 18, 2021, 07:09:09 AM
OMFG PROOF OF SLAVIC IRREDENTALISM CULTURAL APPROPRIATION CONFIRMED.
Fixed!
PS: Thessalonica in the name of the joint, current capital of (Greek) Macedonia, nice. :)
Now on to important stuff. Fresh from the glorious snubbing of the Spaniards the Swedes are about to viciously humiliate Slovakia. Not boring yet at least.
:lmfao:
Quote from: Threviel on June 18, 2021, 08:13:36 AM
Now on to important stuff. Fresh from the glorious snubbing of the Spaniards the Swedes are about to viciously humiliate Slovakia. Not boring yet at least.
Really? The only good thing about that first half, is there was no added time.
Apparently the live streams by state broadcaster ORF are bufering and low quality (which never happened to me), so people have been joking that they should upgrade to better quality:
(https://external-preview.redd.it/qn4t1gH17D4Wc3eFP0nHZJ224eVQIwcTlG_-X3bUvcE.jpg?width=640&height=375&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7331e132253bcea2dbf881930072fc88570bfe06)
Quote from: Josephus on June 18, 2021, 08:51:11 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 18, 2021, 08:13:36 AM
Now on to important stuff. Fresh from the glorious snubbing of the Spaniards the Swedes are about to viciously humiliate Slovakia. Not boring yet at least.
Really? The only good thing about that first half, is there was no added time.
:lmfao: I posted on the tenth minute or so.
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2021, 09:10:43 AM
Apparently the live streams by state broadcaster ORF are bufering and low quality (which never happened to me), so people have been joking that they should upgrade to better quality:
(https://external-preview.redd.it/qn4t1gH17D4Wc3eFP0nHZJ224eVQIwcTlG_-X3bUvcE.jpg?width=640&height=375&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7331e132253bcea2dbf881930072fc88570bfe06)
Good old times. :wub:
After completely dominating the game Sweden finally gets a righteous and fair penalty and score. Good times so far
Quote from: Threviel on June 18, 2021, 09:36:22 AM
After completely dominating the game Sweden finally gets a righteous and fair penalty and score. Good times so far
Completely dominating the game? :lmfao:
The game of putting watchers asleep.
Slovaks did decline on the second half, however.
I mean Sweden looked pretty solid, never really at risk and generally in control which is pretty dominant, no? :hmm:
I don't think this tournament will go on long enough for me to get used to the illustrations the BBC are using for line-ups :bleeding: :lol:
So Poland need to beat Spain otherwise they are in deep, deep trouble.
Not in danger but for a couple of chances, but not in control, so not really dominant, in the first half.
Woke up for the last 20 minutes, unlike Slovaks.
Poland beating Spain would be quite the upset.
I am unsure of my pick of Czech victory, but going to stick with it.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 18, 2021, 10:54:11 AM
Poland beating Spain would be quite the upset.
Let us all pray together for this miracle.
Why the hell did they have to replace the previous Poland coach anyhow?
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2021, 11:25:13 AM
Why the hell did they have to replace the previous Poland coach anyhow?
According to Wiki:
QuoteAs coach of Poland, the team didn't have an impressive performance in 2018–19 UEFA Nations League A, with the team got relegated with two losses and two draws. Poland's UEFA Euro 2020 qualifying has been quite more impressive, with the team managed to win four opening matches without conceding a goal. However, with the team later got a humiliating defeat to Slovenia and a home draw to Austria, he faced heavy pressure on demanding him to quit. Despite this, he managed Poland to be back on track with two final wins over Latvia and North Macedonia, eventually qualified for the UEFA Euro 2020.[4] Brzęczek was sacked on January 18, 2021.[5]
A bit harsh maybe, it's not like Lewandowski can do everything.
Croatia is getting in trouble...
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Croatia is getting in trouble...
Not sure that was a penalty though :hmm:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 18, 2021, 11:41:12 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Croatia is getting in trouble...
Not sure that was a penalty though :hmm:
Did you see Schick's bloody nose?
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 11:49:25 AM
Did you see Schick's bloody nose?
Sure - but what was the defender supposed to do? They both go up using their arms as leverage and there's a clash. I don't see how that's really a foul.
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Croatia is getting in trouble...
Getting better now, thanks to a terrific goal.
Really disappointed by Croatia who seemed happy with a draw there :hmm:
You really see the impact of the loss of Mandzukic and Rakitic. I also think that might be slightly arrogant and they're perhaps underestimating Scotland who I think played better than Czechia....
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 18, 2021, 01:03:36 PM
Really disappointed by Croatia who seemed happy with a draw there :hmm:
You really see the impact of the loss of Mandzukic and Rakitic. I also think that might be slightly arrogant and they're perhaps underestimating Scotland who I think played better than Czechia....
Scotland played with heart but no luck, but Czechia was better.
The rain feel pretty apropriate for the England - Scotland game.
And this match makes it even more jarring that England gets to use "God save the Queen" as anthem.
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 01:58:07 PM
And this match makes it even more jarring that England gets to use "God save the Queen" as anthem.
Yes :ultra: :bleeding:
Change it to Land of Hope and Glory, I Vow to Thee or Jerusalem now :contract:
Also God Save the Queen is a dreadful anthem, as Stephen Bush put it: "'God Save The Queen' has the same energy as a presentation that ends with 'and, as a result, we will be beginning consultation on redundancies'." He's listed I think three good tests of an anthem for sports: 1) can it be sung well drunk (big tick for Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory) 2) by sober choirs with a wide-range of abilities (big ticks also) 3) by an opera singer solo when you're hosting a tournament (big tick again). GSTQ fails on all counts :bleeding:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 18, 2021, 01:22:05 PM
Scotland played with heart but no luck, but Czechia was better.
Yeah I think I disagree - they seemed to get the ball into good places through Robertson and play well as a team. I think Adams should have started. While I think Czechia basically had an outstanding performance from Schick but weren't that cohesive.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 18, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 01:58:07 PM
And this match makes it even more jarring that England gets to use "God save the Queen" as anthem.
Yes :ultra: :bleeding:
Change it to Land of Hope and Glory, I Vow to Thee or Jerusalem now :contract:
Also God Save the Queen is a dreadful anthem, as Stephen Bush put it: "'God Save The Queen' has the same energy as a presentation that ends with 'and, as a result, we will be beginning consultation on redundancies'." He's listed I think three good tests of an anthem for sports: 1) can it be sung well drunk (big tick for Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory) 2) by sober choirs with a wide-range of abilities (big ticks also) 3) by an opera singer solo when you're hosting a tournament (big tick again). GSTQ fails on all counts :bleeding:
this is one of my favorite verses in any song:
O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter thine enemies,
And make them fall
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all.It is just so goofy in a classic 18th/19th century spirit. If that was good enough for the boys to sing as they sailed to victory at Trafalgar, surely it is good enough for the fans of today to sing as their idiot goofball footballers do stupid shit to crash out of another international tournament.
I mean it's a dirge - but it's a British not English dirge :P
This is a surprisingly fun game so far :mellow:
they should have put the "Rebellious Scots to crush" part back in for this game :D
Yeah the English need to get their own damn anthem, not use the UK's. Lame.
Quote from: HVC on June 18, 2021, 02:41:31 PM
they should have put the "Rebellious Scots to crush" part back in for this game :D
Yeah but, like most things involving the Scots, the people doing most of the crushing were other Scots.
What's up with Fodens hair? Why won't someone tell him it makes him look inbred?
HOw does this game look gents?
Foden coming off with his awful bleached hair for Jack Grealish and his head of True English Lion's Mane.
So many bad passes from the English.
Quote from: Liep on June 18, 2021, 03:28:21 PM
So many bad passes from the English.
The level of struggling against the likes of Croatia and Scotland does not bode well for the future.
What a bunch of boring games today. Yuck to all 6 teams.
Finally picked a draw correctly. At least England can always be relied upon to underperform when it matters most.
I thought that was really good from Scotland - who were brave as well in playing some young players who've lots of talent butnot had many minutes, and did very well. As I say I slightly suspect Croatia may well regret gambling that they can easily beat Scotland to get through.
Poor from England - Kane seemed particularly lumbering, almost like he was recovering from an injury which I don't think he is. Also that second half was torrid from England and Southgate very slow to make changes given that he had a bench with Grealish, Sancho, Calvert-Lewin and Rashford. Don't know why he brought Foden off and stuck with two defensive midfielders either instead of trying to change the game with subs, possibly through more attacking changes (of the type Steve Clarke made for Scotland for example).
Homies, for 20 years I've been telling you people, gotta make the goals bigger.
That or make the balls smaller.
Might as well elongate the ball and let the players run with it in their hands :P
My name is Gareth Southgate and I refuse to play arguably the best English player right now, Jadon Sancho.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 18, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Homies, for 20 years I've been telling you people, gotta make the goals bigger.
Draws are good.
Quote from: HVC on June 18, 2021, 06:10:03 PM
Might as well elongate the ball and let the players run with it in their hands :P
Probably how Rugby was created. Everybody was getting tired of those 0-0 ties.
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 18, 2021, 06:10:03 PM
Might as well elongate the ball and let the players run with it in their hands :P
Probably how Rugby was created. Everybody was getting tired of those 0-0 ties.
Rest assured the Hungary-France will not end for France this way. 1-0 for Hungary, with a killer counter-attack, helped by some sloppy defending.
I still expect les Bleus to overcome the opposition but this makes for a more interesting game.
Anyone pick Hungary?
There must be somebody who picked a tie, at least (Tamas?).
PS: after checking, no.
Everyone picked france
France finally got a good pass in the offensive zone. Just so happened it came from Hungary.
Bad defending by Hungary for the first time and French goal, following a couple of attacking movies which could have created real chances.
Unfortunately for the Magyars, I expect the situation will end up as picked by all Languishites in the pool.
84th minute now. Will it be as bad for Hungary as it was against Portugal?
Well, no. Biggest upset of the tournament so far, Languish pool-wise.
Got lucky at the very end the referee ignored Hungarian defenders trying to make love to a couple of French guys in the penalty area.
Worst indecisive battle against Hungarians since Aspern-Essling.
Excellent from Hungary but very wasteful from France.
Interesting to see Germany-Portugal tonight, because based on that I'm not convinced Hungary will be a roll-over for Germany and could be one of the teams getting out from third (I hate this by the way) :hmm:
Trying to do the math here... so now Portugal should win right? That should leave mathematical chances open for the game against Germany.
I don't actually think it matters. Hungary have 1 point and Germany have 0. So whether Germany loses, wins or draws this afternoon, Germany v Hungary could be decisive for third place.
But if Germany lose or draw, Hungary only needs a draw to get into third place - I don't know how it works from there.
Yes, but you still have a three goal differential. So either Germany has to play bad today or Hungary has to really beat them. Plus France has to lose to Portugal.
Quote from: HVC on June 19, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Yes, but you still have a three goal differential. So either Germany has to play bad today or Hungary has to really beat them. Plus France has to lose to Portugal.
Does it matter what France and Portugal do because they're (probably) going to be the first two spots? Fair point on the goal difference and, as I say, I've no idea how they work out the best placed thirds who go through (as I say I hate this because the group games don't really matter because we'll see most of these teams again anyway :lol:).
Quote from: Tamas on June 19, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
Trying to do the math here... so now Portugal should win right? That should leave mathematical chances open for the game against Germany.
If the Portuguese coach can get away with a tie, he will, as I said previously.
But yes, even a German defeat would not spell doom for Germany, though a victory with lots of goals vs Hungary would be needed and some very bad 3rds in other groups. OTOH, Hungary can't qualify with two ties.
Guess the plan is to set off Pepe to get him to do something stupid :lol:
Portugal and Germany very different from their first games. Selecção awful.
Beautiful goal
That was lovely.
All right, HVC, if I can pull the reverse jinx again, I will do it. Great counter.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 19, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
All right, HVC, if I can pull the reverse jinx again, I will do it. Great counter.
:D I agree though that Portugal's play in their end is shaken. Not out of the woods yet
Well, this match started at full speed ahead! Rather eventful 15 minutes so far.
Pepe out would be terrible news, not just for his Languish fans.
1-1, not undeserved, obviously.
Deflection by Ruben Dias?
Yup. Own goal.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 19, 2021, 11:32:12 AM
Pepe out would be terrible news, not just for his Languish fans.
I like his passion. Even his outbursts are amusing... when they don't cost games
Another own goal
Nice own goal by Guerreiro, so no off-side, but yes Gosens was indeed off-side at the beginning. :hmm:
Incidentally if VAR in the PL was as quick and decisive as it is here, there'd be no annoyance at it. It works really, really well here - I don't know what UEFA have done to make it work but I hope we learn from it.
Very fun game so far.
2-1 Germany, 3 Portuguese goals. :P
Portugal must be leading the tournament with 6 goals hah.
Portugal is still dangerous but they can't let Germany just mess around in their end.
Renato Sanches in, naturally, but Bernardo out while Carvalho and Fernandes are still on the pitch?!
3-1 now :(
"First" German goal.
Germany are like a reverse Turkey. So little expectations but looking pretty good.
Well this is depressing
Fernandes out, at last. Bit late for Moutinho, though.
Fun game! 4-2 now
Surprise, surprise, Germany is winning again so a disaffected German football fan rediscover his love of the game. :P
Not really, I somehow lost the passion I used to have for football.
Well, instead of hitting the post, a goal would have done wonders for the interest of the game. :P
Well, with a proper XI in the beginning for the Selecção, things would have been different. Too bad. Some slight home advantage for the Germans, but not decisive, given such a Portuguese "defense". Laterals were hopeless.
Most entertaining for neutral spectators.
So, now time for a snoozefest. The team singularly responsible for the most boring game so far against Poland. Yay for watching Spanish defenders kick ball in 90 minutes.
Just to hammer in what a group of wankers the Spanish team is not one of them deigned to sing the national anthem.
[spoiler]Ohh, I know[/spoiler]
Was not that off-side? Or was the referee bored by Threviel's lame attempts at trolling? :hmm:
Surprising VAR call.
I was just commenting to my wife that the Spaniard was on-side when the VAR came through. Good call, but it makes for strange celebrations.
Spain obviously lack the skill to play as they did earlier, in more boring times. I should perhaps watch football more often. I think I'll put them squarely back in the don't care bracket.
Oh Spain :o :(
Everyone is obviously dying to understand what this means for Sweden. Well, if either side wins Sweden is through to the next round. Otherwise Sweden needs a point against Poland. So FFS Spain, either collapse properly or win this thing.
Yikes, this is not the Roja of yesteryears is it
Told you so. Some decent players, but completely toothless upfront. There's some young talent that may make noise in years to come, but not in this tournament.
Fortunately, I'm 100% a fairweather fan when it comes to international football, so I'm enjoying the tournament.
https://twitter.com/NoContextEPL/status/1406190875118555138?s=19 :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on June 20, 2021, 04:24:10 AM
Told you so. Some decent players, but completely toothless upfront. There's some young talent that may make noise in years to come, but not in this tournament.
Fortunately, I'm 100% a fairweather fan when it comes to international football, so I'm enjoying the tournament.
Can't say it's fair weather for la Selección though. ;)
I still keep a decent tan from all the previous years of basking under the sun of La Roja's sporting glory. :P
Quote from: celedhring on June 20, 2021, 09:20:40 AM
I still keep a decent tan from all the previous years of basking under the sun of La Roja's sporting glory. :P
:lol:
Is Threviel on a mission to make neutrals or even rivals root for a bad Roja or what? :hmm:
Hey, I was laughing. Cel made a funny comment and he has all right in the world to be proud of what his team achieved.
It was a part of my ever failing effort to seem like less of an asshole.
Shaquiri woke up didn't he.
Turkey is the disappointment of the tournament.
Italy looks nigh unbeatable, even with their B-squad. They've certainly played better than France, albeit in an easier group.
Good on Wales for going through.
Really not getting this best 3rd place teams go through stuff.
They didn't do that before right? From memory maybe The one best?...and usually just in qualifiers.
I'm contemplating buying a TV license with watching this being a main push since my gf said I'd be allowed to.
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2021, 02:23:19 AM
Really not getting this best 3rd place teams go through stuff.
They didn't do that before right? From memory maybe The one best?...and usually just in qualifiers.
It was last used in the 1994 FIFA World Cup, IIRC (total of 3 times, 1986, 1990, 1994).
Quote from: Syt on June 21, 2021, 02:34:05 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2021, 02:23:19 AM
Really not getting this best 3rd place teams go through stuff.
They didn't do that before right? From memory maybe The one best?...and usually just in qualifiers.
It was last used in the 1994 FIFA World Cup, IIRC (total of 3 times, 1986, 1990, 1994).
It was already used in Euro 2016, as that's when it moved to 24 participants.
Fair enough. I don't even recall where the 2016 Euro was held. :D
So does Denmark have a chance to catch 3rd place?
Quote from: Syt on June 21, 2021, 03:20:35 AM
Fair enough. I don't even recall where the 2016 Euro was held. :D
In France. :frog:
Yeah I'm not a fan of it. This round of games would normally have some element of peril. But not now.
I mean it's not as bad as the Copa America with two groups of five, of which four qualify :lol:
Quote from: Tamas on June 21, 2021, 03:21:29 AM
So does Denmark have a chance to catch 3rd place?
Winning by at least a couple of goals against Russia with Finland losing to Belgium and we have 2nd position I think. If Finland ties or wins we need a 3 goal win and at least two of these to happen:
Spain to lose, tie or win with a clean sheet against Slovakia while Poland loses points to Sweden
Crotia and Scotland to tie
Austria or Ukraine to lose and North Macedonia to lose
Portugal or Germany to lose
Easy.
I can only guess the thinking is it makes every space competitive?
Top two keep fighting for 1 to get the best draw.
2 and 3 fight for 2nd and automatic qualification.
3 and 4 still have hope of getting a top 3rd position.
I can see a case for one best third place team but the way things are does seem to have turned the groups into just a warm up.... Which in a normal tournament based in a country with tough weather conditions may not be all bad.
Maybe?
My guess is UEFA wanted more games to earn more money. But I could be wrong.
Poor Billy Gilmour - 20 year old Scottish midfielder who made his first full debut against England at Wembley and was excellent and got Man of the Match.
He's now tested positive for covid and needs to self-isolate for 10 days so won't be available for Scotland's next (crucial) game :(
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 21, 2021, 03:31:44 AM
Maybe?
My guess is UEFA wanted more games to earn more money. But I could be wrong.
They want 16 to qualify in order to have "a round of 16". If only the top two teams advanced, you'd have 12 teams, which is hard for a knock out round.
The trouble is less that almost every team qualifes to the next round, and more that there are too many teams in the finals to begin with.
or simple not enough EUFA teams in the group stages.
I really want Denmark to go through - but I suddenly feel very sorry for the Finns. These are games with real jeopardy :o
Oh my - twice :w00t:
God damn, tomorrow I'll buy some Tuborg and a Gammel Dansk! Yay for the Nordic Brazilians!
Incredible results in this group for the final match :lol:
Huzzah!
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 21, 2021, 03:40:51 PM
Incredible results in this group for the final match :lol:
I moaned about the lack of jeopardy. But those five - ten minutes were very enjoyable/exciting: Belgium scoring, Danish fans celebrating (to the confusion of the players), Belgian goal getting VAred, Russia scoring a penalty, Denmark scoring another goal.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 21, 2021, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 21, 2021, 03:40:51 PM
Incredible results in this group for the final match :lol:
I moaned about the lack of jeopardy. But those five - ten minutes were very enjoyable/exciting: Belgium scoring, Danish fans celebrating (to the confusion of the players), Belgian goal getting VAred, Russia scoring a penalty, Denmark scoring another goal.
Yup. The rollercoaster of emotions. Absolutely the reason why football is great.
The BBC has given up all pretence of impartiality and is fully behind Denmark as "everyone's second favourite team" this tournament :lol:
I think I have to stop watching.
I watched for a bit. Nothing.
Stopped watching for work. Denmark's up 0-2. Great!
Start watching. Russia reduces to 1-2. Oh no.
Tune out to attend a meeting. Denmark's up 1-4. Awesome!
In a 1-4 game, the only goal I saw was the Russian one :lol:
Yay!
Quote from: Jacob on June 21, 2021, 03:52:19 PM
I think I have to stop watching.
I watched for a bit. Nothing.
Stopped watching for work. Denmark's up 0-2. Great!
Start watching. Russia reduces to 1-2. Oh no.
Tune out to attend a meeting. Denmark's up 1-4. Awesome!
:cheers:
Two games already set for the round of 16, Italy - Austria and Wales - Denmark. Netherlands and Belgium will face teams coming from the best 3rd pool.
Regarding the pool of 3rd placed teams, Switzerland is sure to qualify, with 4 points, while Ukraine and Finland, with 3 points each, will have to wait for the rest of the groups to finish to see if they qualify. It seems it'll be possible to qualify with just 3 points if the goal difference is good enough.
https://twitter.com/BBCMOTD/status/1407076009351028736?s=19
God damnit could watch that all day
Chose the wrong game i.e Belgium-Finland which was sleepy for most of it, then left (Fête de la Musique) plus did not watch Denmark-Russia being way more entertaining.
Correct picks though. :P
It would be wonderful if Croatia and Scotland tie. Basically a win gets either of them through, but with a tie and neither will advance.
What a game. Copenhagen absolutely erupted when AC thundered that ball in
Danish tabloids already comparing it to the 4-2 win against the Soviet Union in '85 where Laudrup and Elkjær started the era of the 80's wonder team that should've won it all.
(https://i.sohn.dk/danrus1.jpg)(https://i.sohn.dk/danrus2.jpg)
Russian defender to the Gulag. :pinch:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 21, 2021, 04:04:07 PM
https://twitter.com/BBCMOTD/status/1407076009351028736?s=19
God damnit could watch that all day
https://twitter.com/Magdhawran/status/1407093554896330752
It actually improves slightly with Arabic commentary.
American announcers for fodbol doesn't sound right. Nor Latinos speaking English.
Finland has a player named O'Shaunessey? :unsure:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 21, 2021, 05:27:17 PMFinland has a player named O'Shaunessey? :unsure:
Irish father, Finnish mother, born in Finland.
They also have a Hradecky, an Ivanov, a Taylor and a Kamara.
A veritable melting pot.
Munich wanted to illuminate the Allianz Arena for the match Germany-Hungary in rainbow colors. UEFA has rejected it, because "we're not political".
Suggestion for a rainbow illumination more likely to find UEFA approval:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4eXZ7EWYAQUgrL?format=jpg&name=small)
At last, a message that everybody can agree with, not just UEFA! :lol:
Quote from: Syt on June 22, 2021, 04:30:03 AM
Munich wanted to illuminate the Allianz Arena for the match Germany-Hungary in rainbow colors. UEFA has rejected it, because "we're not political".
Suggestion for a rainbow illumination more likely to find UEFA approval:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4eXZ7EWYAQUgrL?format=jpg&name=small)
Pride is political?
They wanted to do it Tyr because Hungary just days ago made a new law that combines punishments for pedophilia with banning all under-18 access to media discussing or showing non-straight relationships or "alternative lifestyles" (as in changes of gender).
Is there something left to sell out for cheap to the Chinese or Russians, so Orban needs a diversion or not? Covid cases rising?
Quote from: Tamas on June 22, 2021, 07:33:31 AM
They wanted to do it Tyr because Hungary just days ago made a new law that combines punishments for pedophilia with banning all under-18 access to media discussing or showing non-straight relationships or "alternative lifestyles" (as in changes of gender).
:bleeding: on so many levels there.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2021, 07:57:49 AM
Is there something left to sell out for cheap to the Chinese or Russians, so Orban needs a diversion or not? Covid cases rising?
"Elections" next year and the opposition had the initiative with their clever fight against the elite Chinese state university be given ground in Budapest originally meant for student housing. And with no Arabs coming through the southern border, a different minority to be picked on had to be found.
Quote from: Tamas on June 22, 2021, 08:11:19 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2021, 07:57:49 AM
Is there something left to sell out for cheap to the Chinese or Russians, so Orban needs a diversion or not? Covid cases rising?
"Elections" next year and the opposition had the initiative with their clever fight against the elite Chinese state university be given ground in Budapest originally meant for student housing. And with no Arabs coming through the southern border, a different minority to be picked on had to be found.
Makes sense, and since the other party is more than willing to play the useful idiot without consideration for the bigger picture, it might work.
Query - does the media in your country constantly compare current players to former players (in a "X as the new Y")?
Bukayo Saka is so fun and joyful to watch. How he came from Arsenal I'll never know :lol: :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 22, 2021, 02:22:43 PM
Bukayo Saka is so fun and joyful to watch. How he came from Arsenal I'll never know :lol: :P
Last season was his breakout and this past season he was player of the season. He plays with such intelligence and verve and he makes everyone else around him better. He's easily the brightest light to come out of the academy since Wilshire. Absolutely love him. Hopefully he doesn't end up like Jack, though.
That said, I can't quite root for England. Kane just seems like a despicable human being :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 22, 2021, 01:44:56 PM
Query - does the media in your country constantly compare current players to former players (in a "X as the new Y")?
Happens in most countries I'd say.
Huh. Interesting.
Given he is likely to be the Premier League highest ever goal scorer I find him very, very bland. He just has a sort of WW1 junior officer about to go over the top vibe - it's weird.
As I say I generally find this English team weirdly likeable - especially for someone who remembers the "Golden Generation" :bleeding:
Possible exceptions are Pickford and Maguire <_<
Booing in Wembley since Scotland scored and tied with Croatia. :lol:
god damn you Scotland
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 22, 2021, 02:40:54 PM
Huh. Interesting.
Given he is likely to be the Premier League highest ever goal scorer I find him very, very bland. He just has a sort of WW1 junior officer about to go over the top vibe - it's weird.
As I say I generally find this English team weirdly likeable - especially for someone who remembers the "Golden Generation" :bleeding:
Possible exceptions are Pickford and Maguire <_<
I fully admit a lot of my dislike for Kane comes from being an Arsenal fan :D
Scotland and Croatia must not tie.
Quote from: Maladict on June 22, 2021, 03:05:00 PM
Scotland and Croatia must not tie.
They must - for I have picked that result.
2-1 for Croatia vs Scotland now.
Go Scotland!
3 -1 Croatia.
It's over for Scotland now, I'm afraid.
England scored in the beginning and has been defending then.
England's poor goalscoring ability must be a concern. Can't see them getting beyond the next round considering it's going to be against one of the likely finalists.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 22, 2021, 02:34:50 PM
That said, I can't quite root for England. Kane just seems like a despicable human being :lol:
I don't like his jump-float victory dance, I don't like his pointy nose, and I don't like his hair.
Quote from: Tyr on June 22, 2021, 03:56:00 PM
England's poor goalscoring ability must be a concern. Can't see them getting beyond the next round considering it's going to be against one of the likely finalists.
Agreed - although part of that is Southgate's decisions.
And, frankly, given England's defenders I'm surprised they've not conceded. For me the defence was a bigger concern (and the way to do well in international tournaments) - I feel the attacking players should generally be capable of scoring goals.
But against that I think Southgate is a very cautious, instinctively negative coach so...
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 22, 2021, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 22, 2021, 03:56:00 PM
England's poor goalscoring ability must be a concern. Can't see them getting beyond the next round considering it's going to be against one of the likely finalists.
Agreed - although part of that is Southgate's decisions.
And, frankly, given England's defenders I'm surprised they've not conceded. For me the defence was a bigger concern (and the way to do well in international tournaments) - I feel the attacking players should generally be capable of scoring goals.
But against that I think Southgate is a very cautious, instinctively negative coach so...
Should sack Southgate and bring in Wenger imo.
Should have hire the Icelandic coach from 2016. Part time coach full time dentist hah
*edit* not a British teeth joke, I just found it funny they were beat by a team with a dentist for a coach
Quote from: HVC on June 22, 2021, 04:38:01 PM
Should have hire the Icelandic coach from 2016. Part time coach full time dentist hah
*edit* not a British teeth joke, I just found it funny they were beat by a team with a dentist for a coach
Although my favourte one of these memes is now Mourinho being knocked out the Europa League by a manager in prison :lol:
England will now play in the round of 18 the runner-up of the France-Germany-Portugal group, so that's going to be a proper top game.
Quote from: The Larch on June 22, 2021, 05:00:05 PM
England will now play in the round of 18 the runner-up of the France-Germany-Portugal group, so that's going to be a proper top game.
I can't see England beating any of those 3.
Quote from: The Larch on June 22, 2021, 05:00:05 PM
England will now play in the round of 18 the runner-up of the France-Germany-Portugal group, so that's going to be a proper top game.
:lol: Yeah - doomed.
But karma after the "easy" run in 2018.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57579821
QuoteHungary PM 'scraps Euros visit' amid German LGBT row with Uefa
Hours before Hungary's footballers face Germany in Munich in their final Euro 2020 group stage match, Prime Minister Viktor Orban has cancelled a visit to the game, German reports say.
Earlier Germany and 13 other EU states condemned a Hungarian law that bans portraying homosexuality to under-18s.
Europe's football governing body has been criticised for not allowing Munich to use rainbow colours in the stadium.
Uefa said it had to deny the request given the political context in Hungary.
German press agency DPA said Mr Orban had cancelled his trip to Munich and was planning to travel to Brussels instead, where an EU leaders' summit starts on Thursday.
There was no confirmation from the prime minister's spokesman, who said: "We do not provide information, now as before, on Viktor Orban's private programme."
Uefa rejected the request, insisting it was a "politically and religiously neutral organisation". It later added a rainbow to its logo and said Munich's request had been political, even though the rainbow symbol was not.
Uefa's refusal was derided as "shameful" by Mayor Dieter Reiter, while Green party leader Annalena Baerbock called for rainbow colours to be displayed across Germany as a "strong message of diversity".
Bavarian Premier Markus Söder said Germans had to "stand up against exclusion and discrimination" and Munich's gay community said it would hand out rainbow flags for fans inside the Allianz Arena for the match at 19:00 GMT. German captain Manuel Neuer, who wore a rainbow armband for the first two games, will continue to do so.
A number of stadiums in Germany have said they will light up in rainbow colours, and Munich town hall tweeted a picture of rainbow flags hoisted outside the building.
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the Hungarian law was "a shame" that went against European values.
Mr Orban told DPA that modern Hungary protected the rights of homosexuals, but "whether the Munich football stadium or another European stadium lights up in rainbow colours is not a state decision". In Budapest too, he said, rainbow colours were a normal part of the landscape.
Hungarian MPs voted last week to ban depiction or promotion of homosexuality to under-18s, as part of a law against paedophiles.
Justice Minister Judit Varga has rejected condemnation of the anti-LGBT law by 14 EU member states as based on "fake news". It did not deprive anyone of their rights nor discriminate against any member of society, she insisted, complaining that the countries involved had not contacted Budapest to clarify the true meaning of the law.
The outcry against Uefa's decision has spread far beyond football and politics in Germany.
In Munich alone, the Olympic tower and an enormous wind turbine near the stadium are to be lit up in rainbow colours.
Outside the stadium, a campaign to get as many of the 11,000 supporters as possible to wear stickers or carry flags is being co-ordinated by Christopher Street Day, which organises annual LGBT parades in July across Germany. An estimated 2,000 Hungary fans are expected to attend the game.
Stadiums in Berlin, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt, Cologne and Wolfsburg are among a number planning to light up during the match in rainbow colours.
Clubs including Stuttgart posted simple messages ahead of the match.
Some of Germany's biggest companies posted rainbow colours on Facebook and Twitter, including BMW, Volkswagen, Siemens and financial organisations such as Sparkasse and Hypovereinsbank.
German drag queen Olivia Jones started a petition online calling for Eurovision winner Conchita Wurst to sing the German anthem ahead of the match.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4j8ePqXMAUhWW8?format=jpg&name=medium)
The coward :lol: At least this much good has come out of the planned Munich stadium action on this. This must be absolutely killing him.
Conchita at the Euros :w00t:
Also love the various German stadiums lighting up in rainbows tonight - as well as Griezmann or the Swedish coach commenting on it. A number of clubs (I would note that at least a few are still technically in the Super League so may just enjoy the chance to tweak UEFA) have also made statements/solidarity. I think UEFA and clubs and football authorities generally underestimate the power of the people who participate in the game on some of these issues. On all the English podcasts/Twitter everyone has suggested that the Allianz Arena should do it anyway and set up a GoFundMe for the fine (which, based on the fines for racism, would be quite small anyway).
And I'd add that polls supporting, say gay adoption, are about the same level of support in Hungary as France - and some Hungarian players have spoken out about this.
There's two things that really annoy me about UEFA on this.
The first is this is sort of a consequence of positioning anti-homophobia and anti-racism as non-political when they are political - and it's clear that groups opposed to these ideas don't think they're neutral which means if you back them it is and should be political. See the Hungarian ultras with their anti-taking-the-knee banner:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4P-0iPWYAYSkmD?format=png&name=small)
But the other that really frustrates me is that UEFA very happily allow themselves to be used politically by authoritarian strong men (see the games in Russia, Azerbaijan and Hungary - all accompanied with Ceferin meeting Putin, Aliyev and Orban - plus Belarus and Lukashenko which - I'm not sure if this has been cancelled - were hosting a UEFA youth tournament). If you want to be utterly non-political - fine, stop doing photo ops with politicians.
Hungarians I've met certainly seemed to be pretty normal well-adjusted western people.
I gather they (and Poland) have similar problems to the UK with a stark break between the 'left behind' people who have given up on ever improving their lives and those seeking to engage with the world.
Glad to see Hungarians in the public eye not being afraid of speaking out though.
UEFA/FIFA are a shit-show. This fact has been kind of on hold for a few years though. It was quite high in the press not so long ago I recall.
Yeah the example that's given is that UEFA literally launched their announcements in the run-up to Euro 2020 (back in the before times of 2019) with tweets including a rainbow emoji and how important it is that everyone can enjoy the game.
You can't have it so anti-homophobia or anti-racism are fine when they're non-political. But if there are people doing homophobia or racism, you then can't make anti-homophobic/racist statement because it's suddenly "political" :bleeding: :ultra:
UEFA and FIFA and international sports administrators (and normally national sports administrators too) are just enraging :lol: :weep:
I am lucky I can watch the Hungary matches on British TV and ignore the politics, back home the pro-government media especially the more political shows/papers are busy attributing the grand success of not losing to France to the great efforts of Orban.
And then there are these aholes above just making it very hard to enjoy the team. I am starting to hope that if we have to lose today let us lose bigly - put these people in their place.
Then again I am also hoping for a miracle win. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Tamas on June 23, 2021, 09:54:10 AM
I am lucky I can watch the Hungary matches on British TV and ignore the politics, back home the pro-government media especially the more political shows/papers are busy attributing the grand success of not losing to France to the great efforts of Orban.
And then there are these aholes above just making it very hard to enjoy the team. I am starting to hope that if we have to lose today let us lose bigly - put these people in their place.
Then again I am also hoping for a miracle win. :Embarrass:
Thats how I am approaching England matches these days.
England win- the England team are happy. Some great guys there.
England lose- the England fans are unhappy. Wonderful.
Interesting tidbit: apparently this is the first time Germany and Hungary facing each other in a competition match since the 1954 World Cup final; there were otherwise only friendlies since then. :o
https://www.11v11.com/teams/germany/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Hungary/
Poland must not win.
Spain must not tie, or win by 4-3.
That is all.
I had Spain drawing in my picks but do think they'll win just because this can't be like their first two games - right? :ph34r:
Quote from: Syt on June 23, 2021, 10:10:09 AM
Interesting tidbit: apparently this is the first time Germany and Hungary facing each other in a competition match since the 1954 World Cup final; there were otherwise only friendlies since then. :o
https://www.11v11.com/teams/germany/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Hungary/
:blush:
I am afraid I can't hope for a Pervitin revenge, this time.
Quote from: Maladict on June 23, 2021, 10:48:41 AM
Poland must not win.
Spain must not tie, or win by 4-3.
That is all.
:lol:
One more failed penalty for la Roja and Morata. :hmm:
if the summer heat in europe is getting to the players how they gonna handle playing in the middle east?
Original OG. I guess Spain needed some luck.
Poor Slovak keeper, penalty saved and now that.
Sweden 1 Poland 0 Unlucky Poland already hit the bar twice.
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 11:27:40 AM
if the summer heat in europe is getting to the players how they gonna handle playing in the middle east?
They will play in winter.
I'm sorry, I really feel for goalkeepers when they make mistakes but LOOOOOL :lmfao:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 23, 2021, 11:32:04 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 11:27:40 AM
if the summer heat in europe is getting to the players how they gonna handle playing in the middle east?
They will play in winter.
i just assumed it'd still be hotter haha
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 23, 2021, 11:32:04 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 11:27:40 AM
if the summer heat in europe is getting to the players how they gonna handle playing in the middle east?
They will play in winter.
i just assumed it'd still be hotter haha
Middle East is north of the Equator, remember. :P
Américo Lapuerta scores, should please French fans.
Poland need to get their shit together and fast.
I think, sadly, they're the second worst team I've seen in this tournament (after Turkey) :(
That was a lovely Swedish goal.
Heja Sverige!
Not a bad Polish goal either.
Entertaining match :)
damn you sweden
I'll say it again, Swe-Pol is a very entertaining match.
damn you sweden
Tihi
I kinda felt sorry for Slovakia at the end, they started the game as 2nd in the group and ended up 3rd with so many goals against them that they have no chance to qualify amongst the group of best 3rd teams.
Now Sweden will have to play against Ukraine, most probably, while Spain will have to face Croatia.
Quote from: The Larch on June 23, 2021, 01:24:28 PM
I kinda felt sorry for Slovakia at the end, they started the game as 2nd in the group and ended up 3rd with so many goals against them that they have no chance to qualify amongst the group of best 3rd teams.
I don't at all. Once you lose 5-0 it would probably be more embarrassing to advance despite that.
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2021, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 23, 2021, 01:24:28 PM
I kinda felt sorry for Slovakia at the end, they started the game as 2nd in the group and ended up 3rd with so many goals against them that they have no chance to qualify amongst the group of best 3rd teams.
I don't at all. Once you lose 5-0 it would probably be more embarrassing to advance despite that.
Oh no, don't get me wrong, once the goals started pouring in they lost any chance of qualifying they had. If it had been just 1 - 0 they might have qualified amongst the best 3rd teams, but I think that from the 2nd goal onwards they were out.
Apparently there have been as many own goals in this Euro so far (7) than in the whole history of the Euros.
Dubravka's is the one I feel the most :( :ph34r:
Germans in all black kit :ph34r:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 23, 2021, 02:04:49 PM
Germans in all black kit :ph34r:
With white text on it :ph34r:
Definitely should have trolled Hungary by coming out in their rainbow uniforms.
Orban probably likes the SS anyway. Not as LGBT+ friendly as the SA.
WTF germany is losing?
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 02:38:23 PM
WTF germany is losing?
Not just that, they will be out of the tournament if they do and France doesn't win.
But then again, it's Germany. They'll pull through in the end.
:ph34r:
Germany already went out early in the last tournament, so it is not without precedence.
bad call for the french penalty
Lloris literally trying to knock Portuguese players out of the tournament :lol:
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
bad call for the french penalty
Yeah, but I don't agree with the first one either.
yeah both penalties were dubious.
Quote from: Maladict on June 23, 2021, 02:58:47 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 23, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
bad call for the french penalty
Yeah, but I don't agree with the first one either.
didn't see the first one, just the goal
Poor Digne :weep: :wub:
I love how much of a diva this ref is :lol: :blush:
Hungary! :o
Germans with a jammy goal and then concede at kick-off :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/ejm8tkFonl8o8/giphy.gif)
Pogba's expression was great.
Well, I guess Germany time wasting against Hungary is flattering.
Oh well, that was not very impressive.
Fuck
Last 10 minutes of Portugal game ruined an otherwise great game. But the last 10 minutes was like "...I don't want the ball, you have it...no you can have it. "
"Jammy goal?"
I think after that game, Ronaldo is level with Daei on international goals scored. Which is very impressive.
And Portugal, once again, qualify for the knockout stage as one of the best 3rd teams.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2021, 04:01:32 PM
"Jammy goal?"
Britishism I picked up watching the Prem. Goal caused by luck or some sort of fluke, not from skillful play.
Quote from: The Larch on June 23, 2021, 04:03:31 PM
And Portugal, once again, qualify for the knockout stage as one of the best 3rd teams.
And Portugal, once again, qualify for the knockout stage from the Group of Death. :P
Sad to see so much effort go to nothing in the end.
Worst possible result. Not going to the knockout stage but not defeated so government propagandists can still have a field day.
Nobody home will care about last place (rightly so). Even the big opposition news site is calling this a "fantastic team". I mean, they aren't though are they? They had great morale and decent tactics (Italian coah). But they had to absolutely give everything they had against a clearly out of form German team and still could not win.
How will the protester and Goretzka go down?
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 23, 2021, 04:13:15 PM
How will the protester and Goretzka go down?
The who and who?
Quote from: Tamas on June 23, 2021, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 23, 2021, 04:13:15 PM
How will the protester and Goretzka go down?
The who and who?
The protester during the Hungarian national anthem who was cheered by the German crowd:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mQjGpWYAwY2ix?format=jpg&name=900x900)
And Goretzka, who, after scoring, ran over to the Ukrainian fans making a heart gesture - especially as Goretzka has a record of being excellent on LGBT rights, confronting the far-right, racism - he is wonderful :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mE0XdXMAgTT2f?format=jpg&name=small)
Edit: Oh and Hungarian fans had this banner (I believe later removed) which may have been why Goretzka made the gesture to them:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mQjGnXIAAXJuz?format=jpg&name=small)
I think Tamas indicated what the official response is going to be.
Hungary didn't advance but Orban is saying this helps his tinpot regime? How contemptible. What a loser.
England will lose yet again to Germany in PKs. :bowler:
Quote from: Josephus on June 23, 2021, 05:04:32 PM
England will lose yet again to Germany in PKs. :bowler:
England loves continuity and ancient traditions.
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2021, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 23, 2021, 05:04:32 PM
England will lose yet again to Germany in PKs. :bowler:
England loves continuity and ancient traditions.
As Gary Lineker famously said: "football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans win." :lol:
I believe the English will, in fact, defeat the Germans, 1-0. Late goal by Sancho, who will sub on in the 80th minute.
:bowler:
Quote from: Jacob on June 23, 2021, 04:56:19 PM
I think Tamas indicated what the official response is going to be.
In hindsight, yes. :)
Didn't see the protester on the BBC feed, but the cheering/jeering during the anthem I didn't like.
Didn't realise that's what Groetzka's heart symbol was about, good for him.
Now being out of the tournament and no danger of accusations of jeopardising team unity or any such BS, will be interesting to see if any of the Hungarian players speak up on the issue. I think it was the goalkeeper who got into a row not too long ago due to a pro-gay right statement. Before the match when asked about the whole Munich stadium thing, he just said everyone knows his stance and he wanted to focus on the match for now.
How did a black dude every make it to Hungary?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2021, 09:18:08 PM
How did a black dude every make it to Hungary?
Duh, he can play football. That is the ultimate decider.
All the really good teams are on one side of the knockout table. :( That sucks. The Belgium-Italy final will be played in the Quarter Finals.
Kinda' shows that Hungary got really unlucky with that group draw, seeing the giants paired on the other end like Sweden v. Ukraine or Denmark v. Wales.
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2021, 03:15:59 AM
All the really good teams are on one side of the knockout table. :( That sucks. The Belgium-Italy final will be played in the Quarter Finals.
Kinda' shows that Hungary got really unlucky with that group draw, seeing the giants paired on the other end like Sweden v. Ukraine or Denmark v. Wales.
Yes, isn't it glorious?
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2021, 03:15:59 AM
All the really good teams are on one side of the knockout table. :( That sucks. The Belgium-Italy final will be played in the Quarter Finals.
Kinda' shows that Hungary got really unlucky with that group draw, seeing the giants paired on the other end like Sweden v. Ukraine or Denmark v. Wales.
I like it.
I'm very much the anti-mono on these things and love underdogs having a long run.
I recall the Euro in Portugal where opening match and final had the same pairing and same winner (Greece winning against Portugal). Tournament felt like a waste of time in hindsight. :D
Is the hearth celebration an LGBT+ thing? I thought it was just a supercommon goal celebration. Loads of footballers make that when scoring.
Quote from: Tyr on June 24, 2021, 03:37:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2021, 03:15:59 AM
All the really good teams are on one side of the knockout table. :( That sucks. The Belgium-Italy final will be played in the Quarter Finals.
Kinda' shows that Hungary got really unlucky with that group draw, seeing the giants paired on the other end like Sweden v. Ukraine or Denmark v. Wales.
I like it.
I'm very much the anti-mono on these things and love underdogs having a long run.
As everyone, but it means little to nothing when it is achieved against other underdogs.
Yeah, underdogs making an upset = great fun*, underdogs beating other underdogs = well, whatever.
*Unless it's Greece, which managed to pull off the least inspiring underdog run in 2004.
Quote from: celedhring on June 24, 2021, 04:08:47 AM
Yeah, underdogs making an upset = great fun*, underdogs beating other underdogs = well, whatever.
*Unless it's Greece, which managed to pull off the least inspiring underdog run in 2004.
Don't remind me of 2004, that was dreadful.
Also don't forget underdogs South Korea on their WC. :lol: That was a very unique competition as well.
I can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
Fortunately, 2010 erased the sting of that game.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2021, 09:18:08 PM
How did a black dude every make it to Hungary?
Naturalized French.
Quote from: celedhring on June 24, 2021, 04:19:03 AM
I can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
Neither Spain nor Italy will ever forget the shambles that was playing South Korea in 2002. The most clearly bought referees I've ever seen.
When Italy fell because of that many people in Spain were gleeful, as if it served Italy well for all their own shenanigans over the years (since 1994 I'd say that Italy was Spain's fiercest international rival, until 2008, when that was exorcised). Then when we were on the receiving end...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4opn-SXoAo-vic?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 04:39:59 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2021, 09:18:08 PM
How did a black dude every make it to Hungary?
Naturalized French.
Loïc Négo, who scored a decisive goal for the Hungarian qualification, as a matter of fact.
Quote from: Syt on June 24, 2021, 05:26:09 AM
[spoiler](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4opn-SXoAo-vic?format=jpg&name=medium)[/spoiler]
Meme does not show Hungary went down with honour. :thumbsdown:
Syt's sisters-like level, from the other side.
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2021, 03:15:59 AM
All the really good teams are on one side of the knockout table. :( That sucks. The Belgium-Italy final will be played in the Quarter Finals.
Kinda' shows that Hungary got really unlucky with that group draw, seeing the giants paired on the other end like Sweden v. Ukraine or Denmark v. Wales.
That's both harsh and undeserved for England and Germany, while France in the hard part gets to have other favorites duking it out before meeting them.
™La chatte à Dédé™ is back, between og, draws and refereeing (Kyky took lessons with Neymar while Lloris follows the Ligue 1/Anthony Lopes school of goalkeeping)!
Well, a couple laterals injured though, but that's all.
Quote from: celedhring on June 24, 2021, 04:05:26 AM
Is the hearth celebration an LGBT+ thing? I thought it was just a supercommon goal celebration. Loads of footballers make that when scoring.
It is - but Goretzka was making it quite pointedly at Hungarian ultras (the black-shirted Carpathian Brigade - who had the anti-gay banner and a history of far-right bullshit):
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mJqhCXIAA5sqv?format=jpg&name=small)
But also from the footage it just looks very pointed at those fans:
https://twitter.com/TheAthleticUK/status/1407803154046070789?s=20
Quote*Unless it's Greece, which managed to pull off the least inspiring underdog run in 2004.
It was great! Did we enjoy them - no, but that wasn't the point :lol:
QuoteI can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
And 2002 :wub:
Also in best use of this meme category :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mIMPFXwAsfkZi?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 05:52:37 AM
It is - but Goretzka was making it quite pointedly at Hungarian ultras (the black-shirted Carpathian Brigade - who had the anti-gay banner and a history of far-right bullshit):
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mJqhCXIAA5sqv?format=jpg&name=small)
:thumbsup: I HATE those flippin' black shirts. But at least it's clear they are not some casual football fans looking for fun, but actual militant fascists, so it has its uses.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 05:52:37 AM
Also in best use of this meme category :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4mIMPFXwAsfkZi?format=jpg&name=small)
:lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 05:52:37 AMQuoteI can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
And 2002 :wub:
2002 was what Cel meant, the one they hosted. Those atrocious refereeings in the knockout rounds... more :bleeding: & :ultra: than :wub:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:46:54 AM™La chatte à Dédé™ is back, between og, draws and refereeing (Kyky took lessons with Neymar while Lloris follows the Ligue 1/Anthony Lopes school of goalkeeping)!
Translation please?
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 06:00:36 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 05:52:37 AMQuoteI can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
And 2002 :wub:
2002 was what Cel meant, the one they hosted. Those atrocious refereeings in the knockout rounds... more :bleeding: & :ultra: than :wub:
I mainly remember Spain knocking out Ireland on penalties so... <_< :P
But it's always nice if a host gets to go deep into a tournament - see also Russia in 2018 - and I'm a bit the opposite of Mono too in that I love seeing countries beyond South America and Europe doing well :blush:
It's not as fun when it's thanks to blatantly bought refs.
Looked up the Italy Korea 2002 game because I have no recollection of these games. Ref was arrested in 2010 for smuggling 6 kilos of heroine into New York.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 06:05:03 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 06:00:36 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 05:52:37 AMQuoteI can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
And 2002 :wub:
2002 was what Cel meant, the one they hosted. Those atrocious refereeings in the knockout rounds... more :bleeding: & :ultra: than :wub:
I mainly remember Spain knocking out Ireland on penalties so... <_< :P
But it's always nice if a host gets to go deep into a tournament - see also Russia in 2018 - and I'm a bit the opposite of Mono too in that I love seeing countries beyond South America and Europe doing well :blush:
Come on that wasn't small guys punching above their weight in 2002 that was blatant cheating by the referee. I have never seen such things before or since.
Quote from: HVC on June 24, 2021, 06:47:07 AM
Looked up the Italy Korea 2002 game because I have no recollection of these games. Ref was arrested in 2010 for smuggling 6 kilos of heroine into New York.
And banned for life from officiating in his home country (Ecuador) before that due to irregularities when refereeing a match from their home league, IIRC.
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 06:00:36 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 05:52:37 AMQuoteI can assure you there's no way I will forget South Korea's run in 2006 :lol:
And 2002 :wub:
2002 was what Cel meant, the one they hosted. Those atrocious refereeings in the knockout rounds... more :bleeding: & :ultra: than :wub:
Yeah, I mistyped the year. Anyway, it was daylight robbery.
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 06:02:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:46:54 AM™La chatte à Dédé™ is back, between og, draws and refereeing (Kyky took lessons with Neymar while Lloris follows the Ligue 1/Anthony Lopes school of goalkeeping)!
Translation please?
Since you ask for a translation:
Desidério Dos Campos is a renowned lucky bastard.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 07:17:12 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 06:02:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:46:54 AM™La chatte à Dédé™ is back, between og, draws and refereeing (Kyky took lessons with Neymar while Lloris follows the Ligue 1/Anthony Lopes school of goalkeeping)!
Translation please?
Since you ask for a translation:
Desidério Dos Campos is a renowned lucky bastard.
Do you enjoy being intentionally obtuse?
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 07:20:20 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 07:17:12 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 24, 2021, 06:02:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:46:54 AM™La chatte à Dédé™ is back, between og, draws and refereeing (Kyky took lessons with Neymar while Lloris follows the Ligue 1/Anthony Lopes school of goalkeeping)!
Translation please?
Since you ask for a translation:
Desidério Dos Campos is a renowned lucky bastard.
Do you enjoy being intentionally obtuse?
With quite a few people here claiming to be fans of les Bleus (all right not you), they could at least google it to discover that colloquial dative associated to Deschamps, so as to have a vague idea of what means.
Besides, it's not the first time I used it and I already translated it before, you would knew it had you been following. :contract:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:41:13 AM
Meme does not show Hungary went down with honour. :thumbsdown:
Syt's sisters-like level, from the other side.
Oh yes going winless. So glorious. and honorable.
This is why I have a hard time getting into this game. The damn lame fucking ties and all the fake moral victorious teams are supposed to take from them.
And yes the fact this lame fucking bullshit gets to prop up and glorify a totalitarian regime doesn't improve my attitude about it.
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:41:13 AM
Meme does not show Hungary went down with honour. :thumbsdown:
Syt's sisters-like level, from the other side.
Oh yes going winless. So glorious. and honorable.
This is why I have a hard time getting into this game. The damn lame fucking ties and all the fake moral victorious teams are supposed to take from them.
And yes the fact this lame fucking bullshit gets to prop up and glorify a totalitarian regime doesn't improve my attitude about it.
Draws are good though.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 24, 2021, 07:43:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:41:13 AM
Meme does not show Hungary went down with honour. :thumbsdown:
Syt's sisters-like level, from the other side.
Oh yes going winless. So glorious. and honorable.
This is why I have a hard time getting into this game. The damn lame fucking ties and all the fake moral victorious teams are supposed to take from them.
And yes the fact this lame fucking bullshit gets to prop up and glorify a totalitarian regime doesn't improve my attitude about it.
Draws are good though.
They are, also celebrating a defeat because you still won on aggregate score :thumbsup:
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:41:13 AM
Meme does not show Hungary went down with honour. :thumbsdown:
Syt's sisters-like level, from the other side.
Oh yes going winless. So glorious. and honorable.
This is why I have a hard time getting into this game. The damn lame fucking ties and all the fake moral victorious teams are supposed to take from them.
And yes the fact this lame fucking bullshit gets to prop up and glorify a totalitarian regime doesn't improve my attitude about it.
Did you watch the game? Hungary led for most of the time. Germany equalized at the 84th minute and no own goal this time. This was not France-Denmark 0-0 territory here as in Russia 2018.
Was at a German bar in Paris and this was no lame fucking tie.
I understand the need to bash Orban, but this is going too far and counter-productive.
Was the tie vs France also fucking damn lame? Hungary led for a bit as well.
If you really want to bash a team from a country ruled by a (wannabe) dictator, there is Turkey, the disappointment of the tournament. Still managed to beat and tie Les Bleus during qualifications. :hmm: Russia and Poland, less surprising.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 08:02:40 AM
If you really want to bash a team from a country ruled by a (wannabe) dictator, there is Turkey, the disappointment of the tournament. Still managed to beat and tie Les Bleus during qualifications. :hmm: Russia and Poland, less surprising.
Plus the 4-2 against the Netherlands in their World Cup qualifiers (which was also seen as a slight indicator that the Netherlands might under-perform).
I find Turkey really baffling. Because the way they played, the way they were set up basically seemed to be that they'd be a pretty defensive team and hit on the counter and it's like they just entirely forgot about the need to counter :blink: It's more the manner of how they went out that I'd find annoying if I was a Turkey it was so timid and bland :(
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 24, 2021, 05:41:13 AM
Meme does not show Hungary went down with honour. :thumbsdown:
Syt's sisters-like level, from the other side.
Oh yes going winless. So glorious. and honorable.
This is why I have a hard time getting into this game. The damn lame fucking ties and all the fake moral victorious teams are supposed to take from them.
And yes the fact this lame fucking bullshit gets to prop up and glorify a totalitarian regime doesn't improve my attitude about it.
It is possible that Hungary's soccer team performed really well and Orban is still a piece of shit.
I guess we just need a representative of the team to say this.
There is some of that - see controvery around Peter Gulacsi:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56746143
Quote from: Tyr on June 24, 2021, 03:37:07 AM
I'm very much the anti-mono on these things and love underdogs having a long run.
100%
All the folks who want to keep the Euros limited to "big teams" can go suck an egg as far as I'm concerned. The best thing about it are the wild runs of smaller teams.
The importance and excitement for the people of Ukraine or Wales that they got out of the group stage is massive and adds so much to the Euros. To me, the sport is just as much - if not more - about the potential fairy tale scenarios and the long shots and the hopes and dreams of the underdogs than it is about the "big" teams.
Victory takes skill, pluck, perseverance, and a measure of luck. That's how it should be, IMO.
Of course, I speak as a supporter of a "small" team... :)
Although it does make me feel even worse for Hungary who have arguably had the best tournament of all the "small" teams in this tournament, who managed to read and successfully counter/nullify France and Germany - but they've not gone through :(
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 24, 2021, 07:43:14 AM
Draws are good though.
BOOOOOOO
(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.vVm5tSU9VjCRDI39KePPjAHaFa&pid=Api)
Quote from: Jacob on June 24, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 12:57:52 PM
BOOOOOOO
Boo yourself.
See? We are at an impasse in this conversation where neither of us can win. A tie. Seems unsatisfying doesn't it?
Hungary still finished last. They suck. Orban can go fuck himself.
Anyway fortunately in the knock out rounds these crimes against athletic competition can be done away with and we can have PKs like civilized people.
Soccer would be much better if they dealt with ties at the end of regulation the same way as the NHL playoffs - just keep playing till someone scores.
I mean keep ties in the group stage if you want, but don't tell me it wouldn't be thrilling to see two teams go at it for 180 minutes plus just waiting for someone to score...
It just makes both teams hyper-defensive. I hated golden goal :bleeding:
Quote from: Barrister on June 24, 2021, 01:14:36 PM
Soccer would be much better if they dealt with ties at the end of regulation the same way as the NHL playoffs - just keep playing till someone scores.
I mean keep ties in the group stage if you want, but don't tell me it wouldn't be thrilling to see two teams go at it for 180 minutes plus just waiting for someone to score...
I love how the NHL does overtime now. It used to be such a borefest.
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 24, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 12:57:52 PM
BOOOOOOO
Boo yourself.
See? We are at an impasse in this conversation where neither of us can win. A tie. Seems unsatisfying doesn't it?
Hungary still finished last. They suck. Orban can go fuck himself.
Anyway fortunately in the knock out rounds these crimes against athletic competition can be done away with and we can have PKs like civilized people.
They were 0-1-2 in games against Portugal, France, and Germany. Don't tell me we wouldn't be happy with that for the US team. "If you're not first you're last" is cool when you are a powerhouse or watching Talladega Nights, but if you take that attitude the non elite teams are doomed to perpetual misery.
Quote from: Barrister on June 24, 2021, 01:14:36 PM
Soccer would be much better if they dealt with ties at the end of regulation the same way as the NHL playoffs - just keep playing till someone scores.
I mean keep ties in the group stage if you want, but don't tell me it wouldn't be thrilling to see two teams go at it for 180 minutes plus just waiting for someone to score...
NHL goals are sufficiently large that you average more than 2.61 scores a game (average in Euro 2020 so far).
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 01:15:54 PM
It just makes both teams hyper-defensive. I hated golden goal :bleeding:
Yeah, it was an awful rule. PKs all the way. At least they make for great drama.
Quote from: celedhring on June 24, 2021, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 01:15:54 PM
It just makes both teams hyper-defensive. I hated golden goal :bleeding:
Yeah, it was an awful rule. PKs all the way. At least they make for great drama.
I'm remembering the glory days of old MLS shootouts where the taker starts 30 yards from goal :lol:
Quote from: alfred russel on June 24, 2021, 01:22:30 PM
They were 0-1-2 in games against Portugal, France, and Germany. Don't tell me we wouldn't be happy with that for the US team. "If you're not first you're last" is cool when you are a powerhouse or watching Talladega Nights, but if you take that attitude the non elite teams are doomed to perpetual misery.
You don't have to be first. But winless is winless. Last place is last place. I mean it is better than losing three straight in humiliating fashion but it is no great honor either. I would want the US to win at least one. Especially if it was the way Hungary blew it against the Germans, who were not even that good. That would piss me off.
But usually in the World Cup the US manages to win at least one, when they aren't losing to Trinidad and Tobago in qualifiers anyway. Granted they usually don't get the Portugal-France-German group, but even so.
Edit: I think the reason I have a visceral reaction to the Hungary praising is the combination of blowing it against the Germans when they should have won coupled with the non-the-less rejoicing and self congratulations by Orban and company. NO YOU BLEW IT YOU FUCKS YOU SHOULD BE MAD. Ah well.
Would you rather one win but you don't go through on GD or 3 draws and you do? :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:38:43 PM
Edit: I think the reason I have a visceral reaction to the Hungary praising is the combination of blowing it against the Germans when they should have won coupled with the non-the-less rejoicing and self congratulations by Orban and company. NO YOU BLEW IT YOU FUCKS YOU SHOULD BE MAD. Ah well.
I disagree they should have won. They are objectively the weaker side, Germany had 70% possession, twice the shots, and 6 times the corners. It is a 90 minute game and in that time they scored the same number of goals.
The sequence the goals were scored obviously built expectations and Hungary clearly were in a position to win, but they were fortunate to be in such a position. If they were to play again tomorrow my money would be on the Germans.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 01:42:17 PM
Would you rather one win but you don't go through on GD or 3 draws and you do? :hmm:
Well obviously the whole point is to go through, I admit I have seen a few three draw teams make it through as infuriating as that is :lol:
But Hungary had a loss so they couldn't draw. A draw was as good as a loss in that situation.
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:48:07 PM
Well obviously the whole point is to go through, I admit I have seen a few three draw teams make it through as infuriating as that is :lol:
Or worse, poor New Zealand in their first ever tournament, don't lose any games but still don't progress :(
QuoteBut Hungary had a loss so they couldn't draw. A draw was as good as a loss in that situation.
Yeah but they were playing a very good Germany team.
I don't think the fact they were leading was fluke or luck - I think they'd clearly watched the Germany-Portugal game and worked out a way to not concede a shedload like Portugal which basically worked. Germany needed to change their approach and Hungary adapted and I feel really sorry for them because I think they played well, but in terms of maximising what you've got to get results - I genuinely think they've been the best team in the tournament :lol: :blush:
Quote from: alfred russel on June 24, 2021, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:38:43 PM
Edit: I think the reason I have a visceral reaction to the Hungary praising is the combination of blowing it against the Germans when they should have won coupled with the non-the-less rejoicing and self congratulations by Orban and company. NO YOU BLEW IT YOU FUCKS YOU SHOULD BE MAD. Ah well.
I disagree they should have won. They are objectively the weaker side, Germany had 70% possession, twice the shots, and 6 times the corners. It is a 90 minute game and in that time they scored the same number of goals.
The sequence the goals were scored obviously built expectations and Hungary clearly were in a position to win, but they were fortunate to be in such a position. If they were to play again tomorrow my money would be on the Germans.
Well if they in fact played shitty and it was just blind luck they were where they were then all the more reason to not take pride in their performance.
But I disagree. Sure the Germans had possession but lots of teams win without dominating possession. That doesn't necessarily mean you are objectively the weaker team. It might just mean your style of play is different.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 24, 2021, 01:51:20 PM
I think they played well, but in terms of maximising what you've got to get results - I genuinely think they've been the best team in the tournament :lol: :blush:
Well I guess. When you haven't even been to the World Cup since the 1980s and advanced past the group stage in the Euro once since...um...er...*checks* 1972 you will probably take whatever you can get.
Still damn it I thought people were passionate about this sport. It seems so lame when they just shrug off such a devastating late goal like this. What am I even watching this stuff if that is all the angst and rage I get to see? If people don't care it isn't much fun for me. Good job *golf clap* :yucky:
Oh for Hungary fans I'm sure it'll have been devastating to concede. But they'll probably still be proud that they gave a decent account of themselves against the current European champions, World Cup winners and Germany.
They weren't wildly outclassed and the players didn't give up. There's not much more you can ask for. Sometimes the odds are just too much - even if it is awful in the moment.
But I'm a neutral who's not particularly invested in Hungary - I just think they've played pretty well when I've seen them against really tough opposition. They were miles ahead of the teams who maybe did underwhelm like Turkey or Poland.
Not all draws are "just draws."
Going into the last match day of the 00/01 Bundesliga season, Schalke and Bayern were neck and neck. For Schalke to become champions they had to win their game, and Bayern needed to lose.
Schalke fell behind against Unterhaching, but came back, and eventually won their match 5-3.
A friend and I were in the stadium in Hamburg where Bayern were playing (we were huge Bayern fans at the time). When the stadium video screen announced that Schalke was leading 5-3, Hamburg scored against Bayern in the 90th. At that time Schalke thought they were champions. When their match ended, they were celebrating their championship ...
... only the match in Hamburg wasn't over. In overtime, a Hamburg player passed back to his goalie who picked up the ball - indirect freekick. Somehow, Patrick Andersson hammered the ball through the Hamburg defenders and into the goal.
The match ended shortly after 1-1, with Bayern being champions, and Schalke - "champions of the hearts" (because everyone hates Bayern) if you like them, or "5 minute champions" (if you mock them) - were devastated.
As a Bayern fan it was a bit of a rollercoaster :D
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:54:19 PM
Well if they in fact played shitty and it was just blind luck they were where they were then all the more reason to not take pride in their performance.
But I disagree. Sure the Germans had possession but lots of teams win without dominating possession. That doesn't necessarily mean you are objectively the weaker team. It might just mean your style of play is different.
I know FIFA rankings are flawed but they are:
France: 2
Portugal: 5
Germany: 12
Hungary: 37
They gave a better than expected account of themselves.
By contrast the US is #20. By FIFA's measure at least the gulf between Germany and the US is less than the gulf between the US and Hungary. If we were in Hungary's spot I'd hope to get a win, but I surely wouldn't expect it.
Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?
Quote from: Tyr on June 24, 2021, 03:54:00 PM
Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?
Just based on World Cup results, 20th in the world sounds pretty reasonable for the US.
I just checked - Canada is 70th. Oof. Although we're actually having one of our best results in WC2022 qualifying - moving on to the last stage.
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:38:43 PM
But usually in the World Cup the US manages to win at least one, when they aren't losing to Trinidad and Tobago in qualifiers anyway. Granted they usually don't get the Portugal-France-German group, but even so.
I don't think anyone expected Hungary to get a single point in this group. That they did (twice), and almost won a game, is a very respectable showing.
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2021, 01:02:16 PM
See? We are at an impasse in this conversation where neither of us can win. A tie. Seems unsatisfying doesn't it?
The fact that you view a simple conversation as a win/lose proposition is illustrative of how far apart we are.
QuoteOrban can go fuck himself.
Agreed.
QuoteAnyway fortunately in the knock out rounds these crimes against athletic competition can be done away with and we can have PKs like civilized people.
You don't understand. And that's fine. You can pretend you idiosyncractic preferences have some sort of objective correctness, but they're merely the equivalent of the ravings of some random punter at the bar. Potentially mildly entertaining if you're in the right mood, but ultimately irrelevant.
The single biggest story of the Euros so far is Denmark qualifiying. From the heart stoppage, to UEFA's shitty pressure and the lost match against Finland, the loss to Belgium, and then the incredible win against Russia. If you don't understand the pathos of that, that's your loss.
Quote from: Jacob on June 24, 2021, 05:23:06 PM
The single biggest story of the Euros so far is Denmark qualifiying. From the heart stoppage, to UEFA's shitty pressure and the lost match against Finland, the loss to Belgium, and then the incredible win against Russia. If you don't understand the pathos of that, that's your loss.
Yeah - the narrative is huge. And I'd tie in Belgium where Eriksen's team-mate - a black player in Russia - scored in front a crowd that entirely booed him taking the knee and he runs to the camera to say "Chris - I love you!" Through to the very emotional Denmark-Belgium game.
It's extraordinary and I suspect Denmark may have a real run. On the BBC speaking to the Welsh they're saying that obviously they really want to win but they really don't want to knock out Denmark - and though Wales doesn't have that story, they're a small country with a sort of incredible team spirit who love being underdogs and sort of run on emotion, it's almost the worst tie for them.
Quote from: Tyr on June 24, 2021, 03:54:00 PM
Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?
That is taken into account. The elo ratings (using the formula used to rank chess players) has the US at 22 and Hungary at 34 which is in line with Fifa.
Quote from: Tyr on June 24, 2021, 03:54:00 PM
Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?
Probably. But the US recently beat Mexico. So there is that.
Speaking of rankings I checked them and wow, Denmark is 10th.
They've won it before too so they do not count as an underdog for me. :mad:
Yeah, I'd consider Denmark to be a football middle power.
Fair enough.
I still stand by my points of including small (and middle) powers in the Euro (and World Cup).
Quote from: Tyr on June 25, 2021, 08:15:55 AM
Speaking of rankings I checked them and wow, Denmark is 10th.
They've won it before too so they do not count as an underdog for me. :mad:
Part of the statu quo for Mono. :yes:
Yussuf Poulsen is out and Dolberg replaces him. I'm a little worried as Dolberg always fails to impress and he looks like he can't be bothered to play but apparently he is scoring some goals in the French league.
Quote from: Liep on June 26, 2021, 10:25:30 AM
Yussuf Poulsen is out and Dolberg replaces him. I'm a little worried as Dolberg always fails to impress and he looks like he can't be bothered to play but apparently he is scoring some goals in the French league.
His apathy in the box will win it for us!
The kingdom for someone who can put in a decent cross.
Nice goal. Denmark playing better then I expected
:w00t:
2-0 for Denmark now, with a goal offered by Wales to the Danes, starting from a Danish (?) foul.
Kjær out. :weep:
3-0 now, on the second attempt.
It's been over for a while for the Welsh.
Mæhle. :w00t: :yeah:
:w00t:
:cool:
4-0, now that's harsh.
Wow. Deserved for Braithwaite
Poor Wales :(
I have made it a policy not to comment on Languish during Denmark matches. I think I made the right call :lol:
Wales looked strong in the first 10-15 minutes. Luckily for Denmark they couldn't keep it up.
Italy should be afraid. Upset energy has transferred to Austria.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 26, 2021, 01:08:05 PM
Italy should be afraid. Upset energy has transferred to Austria.
Not in phase 2 picks. :P
Denmark! :w00t:
Austria holding for now
Italy 0 Austria 0
Arnautovic already got booked. :D
Is it my TV or are the colours off? It looks like a 90's game.
Your TV. Looks all right here.
Oh wow.
Looks like I'm the new valmy of the knock stage lol
If it stays so, upset of the tournament.
Austria 1 Italy 0
Started on a possible foul for Italy, in the Austrian half.
Off-side Video review and no goal.
That's a warning to la Squadra Azzurra
Back to 0-0
Spoke too soon
Looks like the right call. Nice header though.
Italy is having a very difficult second half.
Bah undeserved win if they pull through.
Italy had improved in the last minutes of regulation time though.
Goal is legit.
SUPERB BIT OF INDIVIDUAL TECHNIQUE
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 26, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
SUPERB BIT OF INDIVIDUAL TECHNIQUE
Not so good defending though.
2-0 for Italy just before OT half-time.. Over for Austria, I'm afraid, but they held 95 minutes.
An Austrian goal there would have turned the game very interesting in the end.
Someone smarter than me needs to make a World War one joke
2-1, it's not over yet.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 26, 2021, 04:24:29 PM
Someone smarter than me needs to make a World War one joke
Austrians won't cross the Piave!
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 26, 2021, 04:19:03 PM
An Austrian goal there would have turned the game very interesting in the end.
Auto-quote since I was right. :P
Worth staying for the overtime. :)
I'd say deserved win for Italy but need to rewatch that offside goal. :hmm:
Austria resisted more than expected but that's part of the game.
Just seen the scores of most recent games. Denmark win 4-0. Wow. Didn't see that coming.
Way to go EUFA :rolleyes:
QuoteEuropean football association UEFA banned LGBT flags from appearing inside the Puskás Aréna in Budapest during the Euro 2020 clash between the Netherlands and Czech Republic, Dutch football association KNVB confirmed to NOS and Nu.nl. UEFA decided not to allow any flags other than those of countries participating in the tournament, the KNVB said. The ban also applied to the Oranje fan zone in Budapest. Numerous Dutch fans reported on social media that they were forced to hand in their rainbow flags to security personnel.
Their theory really is that rainbow flags are not political and we fully support displaying them/diversity in football - unless the government is homophobic in which case they're provocative, political and need to be banned :bleeding: <_<
Funny how UEFA/FIFA only need countries to adjust their rules if it affects their sponsors ....
Quote from: Syt on June 27, 2021, 09:32:20 AM
Funny how UEFA/FIFA only need countries to adjust their rules if it affects their sponsors ....
Well, UEFA actually yielded to virtue-signaling al-Quran thumpers (hello Pogba), offended by alcohol-free "beer" produced by Heineken, so sponsors don't always get the last word.
Gambling and betting, forbidden by the Al-Quran do not seem to offend them though. :hmm:
Apparently it is not UEFA but "local authorities"
QuoteContrary to some reports in Dutch media, UEFA would like to clarify that it has not banned any rainbow-coloured symbols from the fan zone in Budapest, which is under the responsibility of the local authorities. UEFA would very much welcome any such symbol into the fan zone
Quote from: Tamas on June 27, 2021, 10:29:01 AM
Apparently it is not UEFA but "local authorities"
QuoteContrary to some reports in Dutch media, UEFA would like to clarify that it has not banned any rainbow-coloured symbols from the fan zone in Budapest, which is under the responsibility of the local authorities. UEFA would very much welcome any such symbol into the fan zone
But what about the stadium?
edit: apparently UEFA have now let the Hungarian authorities know the flags are to be allowed in the stadium. After all supporters already had them taken away, either in the fan zone or entering the stadium.
Disgusting. They tried to lawyer-speak out of it with the fan zone thing.
I am sure glad the true football fans of Europe and England in particular made sure no financial loss fell on UEFA due to those 12 evil clubs!
After the Tour de France and the Austrian Grand Prix turned orange today, Budapest up next :cool:
looks up past record against the Czechs..... :(
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 10:47:29 AM
looks up past record against the Czechs..... :(
Past record against Czechoslovaks, technically. :nerd:
Weren't there a lot of Pride month-themed adverts on the last match? Now I see none. Way to go making a stand.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 27, 2021, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 10:47:29 AM
looks up past record against the Czechs..... :(
Past record against Czechoslovaks, technically. :nerd:
It's bad enough against the Czechs. But even worse against Czechoslovakia, yes.
Quote from: Tamas on June 27, 2021, 11:06:27 AM
Weren't there a lot of Pride month-themed adverts on the last match? Now I see none. Way to go making a stand.
UEFA have approved rainbow/Pride themed adverts for all games. And a few companies, like Booking.com and Volkswagen, have said that's what they'll be showing in all their final stage adverts. I think I've seen a couple as in Amsterdam.
QuoteI am sure glad the true football fans of Europe and England in particular made sure no financial loss fell on UEFA due to those 12 evil clubs!
:lol:
I don't think anyone was saying UEFA are good now. In fact I think they've had a number of free hits since that debacle - not least their response to Eriksen's situation - and they've fluffed all of them really badly.
Dutch started the game super strong, but they're letting the Czech work out their nerves. Dutch are still the better team, but on a personal level I'd be ok with them losing :D
Interesting they took pride flags off a bunch of people as all I'm seeing is pride themed corporate advertising on the billboards :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 27, 2021, 11:23:43 AM
:lol:
I don't think anyone was saying UEFA are good now. In fact I think they've had a number of free hits since that debacle - not least their response to Eriksen's situation - and they've fluffed all of them really badly.
Yeah but behind all the sanctimonious talk that's what was truly at stake - who'd profit from top club level European competition. UEFA, or the clubs.
A weird red card, but I guess the Dutchman shovelled the ball away with his hand?
Quote from: Liep on June 27, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
A weird red card, but I guess the Dutchman shovelled the ball away with his hand?
I'm inclined to say he probably did, but it's a tough call as he was pushed down at the same time.
He shoveled it back when the Czech player had a clear line to the goal. It was the right call
Well this is all going to shit :D
Just before the red card, there was a near-goal for the Batavians, where the Orange player tried to enter the Czech goal with the ball.
I've never seen a video check used for a red card decision. Very odd. And right after the Dutch screw up a 1 on 1...
England and Holland really do have a lot in common. Dont they
Nice run through.
I am now supporting Denmark. :sleep:
Quote from: Tyr on June 27, 2021, 12:36:56 PM
I've never seen a video check used for a red card decision. Very odd. And right after the Dutch screw up a 1 on 1...
England and Holland really do have a lot in common. Dont they
Video check may be used for red cards, standard VAR procedure.
Some early blatant ones in the France-Germany or France-Portugal were not given, but that's the referee call.
I suppose it's over for de Boer was Dutch coach now?
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
I am now supporting Denmark. :sleep:
I have space for you on the portuguese bandwagon :hug:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 27, 2021, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 27, 2021, 12:36:56 PM
I've never seen a video check used for a red card decision. Very odd. And right after the Dutch screw up a 1 on 1...
England and Holland really do have a lot in common. Dont they
Video check may be used for red cards, standard VAR procedure.
And it was a good call, too.
Quote from: HVC on June 27, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
I am now supporting Denmark. :sleep:
I have space for you on the portuguese bandwagon :hug:
I'm rooting for Belgium, as if this evening isn't painful enough.
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 27, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
I am now supporting Denmark. :sleep:
I have space for you on the portuguese bandwagon :hug:
I'm rooting for Belgium, as if this evening isn't painful enough.
Dutch rooting for Belgium? :lol: Man, you are desperate, though Belgium is favorite.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 27, 2021, 12:44:23 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 27, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
I am now supporting Denmark. :sleep:
I have space for you on the portuguese bandwagon :hug:
I'm rooting for Belgium, as if this evening isn't painful enough.
Dutch rooting for Belgium? :lol: Man, you are desperate, though Belgium is favorite.
To be fair, I'll take any country over Portugal :P
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 27, 2021, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
I am now supporting Denmark. :sleep:
I have space for you on the portuguese bandwagon :hug:
I'm rooting for Belgium, as if this evening isn't painful enough.
Wow? The Belgians. You must really hate Portugal :lol:
It's ok, I hate the Dutch too :console: Never forget!
And the English, but at least they screwed Portugal long before I was born.
This means, unless there is a Batavian miracle, Czechia or Denmark in semi-final. Not a common prediction before the tournament started.
Unlike HVC, I don't hate the Dutch, that's the best rival of Portugal in football. :P
Albion, OTOH...
Quote from: HVC on June 27, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
It's ok, I hate the Dutch too :console: Never forget!
I never said I hated Portugal. :huh:
I do find them somewhat annoying. :)
Ok, maybe hate is wrong on my end too. Irrational joy at their misfortune :lol: ? Stems back to the battle of Nuremberg
Quote from: Tyr on June 27, 2021, 12:36:56 PM
England and Holland really do have a lot in common. Dont they
Consistently over-hyping their teams after initial wins against minnows seems to be one of them.
Some of the newer Dutch players showed promise, Dumfries in particular, but the team is just not good enough to cut it in a knockout phase.
Quote from: HVC on June 27, 2021, 01:00:51 PM
Ok, maybe hate is wrong on my end too. Irrational joy at their misfortune :lol: ? Stems back to the battle of Nuremberg
Fair enough :hug:
So beat the Czechs in Baku to reach the semis. I can see that happening.
This is a much more boring game than it should be.
For Swedes Denmark (and Iceland) is normally the second team, we cheer on them unless they are facing us. Likewise, but I think to a lesser extent, Finland and even sometimes Norway.
I would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so? Is it the same for Danes?
Fuck
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PM
For Swedes Denmark (and Iceland) is normally the second team, we cheer on them unless they are facing us. Likewise, but I think to a lesser extent, Finland and even sometimes Norway.
I would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so? Is it the same for Danes?
No, not really for the Benelux. I mean that's just Belgium and the Netherlands, really.
There's no real rivalry between the two, which you might expect. But we're also not big on supporting each other.
That said, I'd be happy to see them do well this tournament. This generation is deserving of a title.
There's still hope!
I actually think Italy will take it this year.
Just checked historic euro winners.
Huh. Some weird teams on there. Soviets and Holland. Completely didn't realise that.
Quote from: Tyr on June 27, 2021, 02:50:00 PM
Just checked historic euro winners.
Huh. Some weird teams on there. Soviets and Holland. Completely didn't realise that.
Why is Holland weird? Haven't they had some powerhouse teams? Like with that bald guy and that other guy.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2021, 02:52:32 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 27, 2021, 02:50:00 PM
Just checked historic euro winners.
Huh. Some weird teams on there. Soviets and Holland. Completely didn't realise that.
Why is Holland weird? Haven't they had some powerhouse teams? Like with that bald guy and that other guy.
Yeah, thought they were notable as a historically great team that never won anything. May have just been thinking of the wc.
Quote from: Tyr on June 27, 2021, 02:50:00 PM
Just checked historic euro winners.
Huh. Some weird teams on there. Soviets and Holland. Completely didn't realise that.
England never won it, to give some perspective, so not so weird. :P
Quote from: Maladict on June 27, 2021, 02:34:18 PM
This is a much more boring game than it should be.
Some people still don't know the Portuguese coach, though I am not blaming him this time, unlike the game vs Germany.
Palhinha should consider himself lucky to be still on the field. Yet I thought it was a good idea to have him start the game. He won't finish the game.
Not sure if Danilo is fully recovered and the latter has not been performing very well for a while, he works wells as a 6 though.
Can't say the Belgian goal was undeserved, nor deserved but there it is. Some French people are saying Rui Patricio is only good vs les Bleus. :D
With De Bruyne out the only real contenders left are France, Italy and Denmark.
:P
Fuck, Fernandes is going to enter. Selecção doomed. :(
If this was South America Jota would have his car rigged with a bomb already.
Not Diogo Jota's day. :(
Pepe lucky this time, and Palhinha out at last.
That Pepe dude seems to be an outstandingly nice and friendly fellow.
He's lucky. He's also a good defender which gives him leeway.
Guerreiro not so lucky, hitting the post.
That giant de Bruyne kid seems to be growing up, he's gotten some sparse facial hairs.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 27, 2021, 03:14:12 PM
Fuck, Fernandes is going to enter. Selecção doomed. :(
Indeed
Can't say Portugal did t give it their all
In the second half, yes.
Belgium without De Bruyne is a nice little gift for the next opponents of the Diables Rouges though.
Man, how did they miss the tug on the jersey by Portugal?
Same way they missed the assault on Pavard by Goosens, the red on Lloris following the elbowing on Danilo etc.
Referee was bad. Brych...
That certainly felt at times like a remake of the Bleus vs Diables Rouges 2018 game with Belgium being France and Portugal Belgium. :hmm:
I am afraid this will be a Pyrrhic victory with key Belgian players injured, paving the way for Italy or even France (chatte à Dédé inside).
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PM
For Swedes Denmark (and Iceland) is normally the second team, we cheer on them unless they are facing us. Likewise, but I think to a lesser extent, Finland and even sometimes Norway.
I would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so? Is it the same for Danes?
It is for me at least.
The 3 teams I usually cheer for are France, Portugal and Italy. 2000, 2006 and 2016 were tough.
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PMI would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so?
While there might be some Spaniards who would cheer for Portugal, finding a Portuguese cheering for Spain is a much harder task. :lol:
Quote from: The Larch on June 28, 2021, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PMI would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so?
While there might be some Spaniards who would cheer for Portugal, finding a Portuguese cheering for Spain is a much harder task. :lol:
Quite understandable :P
How come?
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2021, 05:54:46 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 28, 2021, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PMI would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so?
While there might be some Spaniards who would cheer for Portugal, finding a Portuguese cheering for Spain is a much harder task. :lol:
Quite understandable :P
How come?
Historical rivalry.
You'll find that the Scandinavian sense of brotherhood that you mentioned is exceedingly rare in almost any other part of the continent.
Quote from: The Larch on June 28, 2021, 05:38:45 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PMI would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so?
While there might be some Spaniards who would cheer for Portugal, finding a Portuguese cheering for Spain is a much harder task. :lol:
Some Spaniards as in Galicians? Because others, not so much. :P
Finding a Portuguese cheering for Spain? Well, depends on the team playing Spain. In France, finding a Portuguese cheering for Spain vs France, England or Germany should not be that difficult.
I actually liked Spain in 2008.
Quote from: Jacob on June 27, 2021, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 27, 2021, 02:37:36 PM
For Swedes Denmark (and Iceland) is normally the second team, we cheer on them unless they are facing us. Likewise, but I think to a lesser extent, Finland and even sometimes Norway.
I would think that the same would go for Benelux and perhaps Iberia? Is it so? Is it the same for Danes?
It is for me at least.
Yeah - in general I think English people are happy if Ireland, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland do well. But that is, understandably, not reciprocated at all :lol:
Honestly whenever I watch any game of football I basically pick a side.
In England you see lots of comments like "who is your second team in the Euros and why is it Italy?" which I think is pretty common. That's not through any particular affinity with Italy just that they (especially with Mancini's outfit) look very good/stylish and my generation grew up watching Serie A highlight shows and football in the 90s when Serie A was the peak - so Italian football has a special sentimental/nostalgic value. I imagine in 20 years there'll be loads of English Spain fans because when they were kids they were watching the 2000s peak Barcelona/Madrid teams plus the Spanish team.
I think everyone likes smaller nations as well. This time I think everyone wants Denmark to do well because of what happened in the first game, but I really like Sweden and have a soft spot for Croatia. But except for Denmark-support I don't know how widespread those views are.
But I like Belgium too - I love Lukaku. I find this version of France is a bit like England in that I'm always slightly disappointed when I watch at how defensive they are given their attacking talent - but Deschamps/Southgate are defensive, negative coaches so...
I wouldn't root for Italy even if they played Satan with the fate of all mankind on the line. Never. NEVER.
Outside of that, yeah I'll root for the underdogs and I have a very big soft spot for the USMNT (also an underdog), since I spent 3 years living in the US, including the 2010 WC. Don't care for Portugal either way, really, particularly after Cronaldo left Real Madrid.
Quote from: celedhring on June 28, 2021, 06:59:51 AMI wouldn't root for Italy even if they played Satan with the fate of all mankind on the line. Never. NEVER.
I would. :lol:
Come on, '94 has already been exorcised several times over.
Quote from: The Larch on June 28, 2021, 07:06:34 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 28, 2021, 06:59:51 AMI wouldn't root for Italy even if they played Satan with the fate of all mankind on the line. Never. NEVER.
I would. :lol:
Come on, '94 has already been exorcised several times over.
What good is a sports grudge if you can't take it to your grave?
Given what is blamed to Italy has been copied and "perfected" by the likes of France and Germany (if not invented for the latter cf. Schwalbe) , I find it hard to hold only such a grudge against la Squadra Azzurra.
Specially now that Italy plays a more attractive football.
Quote from: celedhring on June 28, 2021, 07:14:04 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 28, 2021, 07:06:34 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 28, 2021, 06:59:51 AMI wouldn't root for Italy even if they played Satan with the fate of all mankind on the line. Never. NEVER.
I would. :lol:
Come on, '94 has already been exorcised several times over.
What good is a sports grudge if you can't take it to your grave?
I think it's important to keep grudges updated and relevant, lest you end up in a "Hattfields & McCoys" kind of scenario in which you don't know anymore why you hate each other. Thus, I'd put Italy in the backburner of rivalries, and focus on more relevant oponents at the moment, such as the Netherlands.
Spain in all white and Croatia in all black. What is this nonsense?
The crowd seems to favour Croatia.
Nice play, poor finish.
A very high amount of heel passes in this game...
Jesus fucking Christ
Spain is attacking, much to Thrievel's chagrin :P.
This should have been a penalty for Spain and now an own goal (very high on the fluke scale) against la Roja. :lol:
Too late to call back De Gea? :hmm:
Spain misses two huge chances and then scores the most ridiculous own goal in Euro Cup history... not a good 5 minutes. :(
Oh dear
That wasn't a penalty I don't think.
But the own goal... that's just heartbreaking.
I always get a near heart attack when my team passes back to the goalie. This is not going to help.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 11:28:30 AM
I always get a near heart attack when my team passes back to the goalie. This is not going to help.
Same - as a fan I find it the most stressful trend in modern football :ph34r: :blush:
Well, it was good while it lasted for the Croats. Maybe they should have gone for the 2-0.
That was a well deserved goal.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2021, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 11:28:30 AM
I always get a near heart attack when my team passes back to the goalie. This is not going to help.
Same - as a fan I find it the most stressful trend in modern football :ph34r: :blush:
Unless your goalkeepers has Neuer-like skills with the ball, which are not too common.
Yeah there's about 5 goalkeepers I think are really comfortable with getting lots of backpasses, but everyone is doing it and... :ph34r:
Whole new ballgame.
This is UK specific - but Emma Hayes is a really outstanding pundit and co-commentator.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2021, 11:46:56 AM
This is UK specific - but Emma Hayes is a really outstanding pundit and co-commentator.
Read the same opinion in the comments section (stop laughing) of a francophone site.
How weird :hmm:
It makes sense because she's clearly a very good manager - but she's just really able to explain things to the viewer in a way that is helpful. Like she will notice and explain a tactical switch in-game and be able to explain what it is and why it's happened - what the players are doing now. So she can explain well how Spain are attacking or a point about the goalkeeper - and it's stuff that I'd miss just watching and I think a lot of viewers would miss until she points it out and explains it.
She's just said "already a change of approach to Croatia's pressing approach" - explained it and the way Spain are responding - and watching it I'm like - I see that now :hmm: :lol:
Three goals for Spain so far... :p
It'll be interesting to see if Croatia will step up now. Have they been bland as a tactical choice or because they are outclassed.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 12:15:41 PM
Three goals for Spain so far... :p
It'll be interesting to see if Croatia will step up now. Have they been bland as a tactical choice or because they are outclassed.
They have way more time to equalize vs Spain than they had vs Portugal 5 years ago, that's something to be taken into account.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
They have way more time to equalize vs Spain than they had vs Portugal 5 years ago, that's something to be taken into account.
Yeah, a one goal lead isn't much at this level.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 12:15:41 PM
Three goals for Spain so far... :p
It'll be interesting to see if Croatia will step up now. Have they been bland as a tactical choice or because they are outclassed.
I feel like they really miss Rakitic and Mandzukic - and will soon be without Modric. I feel like they're possibly just less good now.
I don't know if they do - but I hope they have another good generation coming up behind them because I have a soft spot for Croatia.
Croatia is looking a bit more alive now.
That was almost another backpass own goal.
Also... Croatia is looking a bit thuggish.
And 3-1
Croatia jinxed by Jacob. :lol: Spain scores another goal, and no own goal this time.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
Croatia jinxed by Jacob. :lol: Spain scores another goal, and no own goal this time.
I'm very strategic with my jinxing comments these days :D
Spain scoring goals for everyone today.
:yuk:
This game was simultaneously very stressful and very relaxing. So odd.
Quote from: celedhring on June 28, 2021, 12:39:12 PM
This game was simultaneously very stressful and very relaxing. So odd.
Not simultaneously. Different parts with different feelings. :P
:o
:huh:
So much drama in this game :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
:o
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
They have way more time to equalize vs Spain than they had vs Portugal 5 years ago, that's something to be taken into account.
Still true. :P
Love me some proper goal mouth scrambles
And it's stressful again! :lol:
I am afraid the game between les Bleus and the Nati won't be as entertaining.
:nelson:
oh wow 3-3
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 12:43:43 PM
So much drama in this game :lol:
DRAMA! :o :w00t:
Message typed before the Croatian equalizer.
This game is intense!
AMAZING SCENES JIM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:50:34 PM
Message typed before the Croatian equalizer.
I'm not the only one with jinx powers :ph34r: :lol:
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:50:34 PM
Message typed before the Croatian equalizer.
I'm not the only one with jinx powers :ph34r: :lol:
I was referring to the entertaining character of the game. :P
My Croat neighbors sure did enjoy that equalizer.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:51:49 PM
I was referring to the entertaining character of the game. :P
Of course, but predicated on a particular outcome... :hug:
Quote from: Liep on June 28, 2021, 12:51:57 PM
My Croat neighbors sure did enjoy that equalizer.
As they should. :)
Ohhh Croatiaaaaa
Your country looks like pacman so I love youuuuu
Amazing stuff.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 12:52:39 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 12:51:49 PM
I was referring to the entertaining character of the game. :P
Of course, but predicated on a particular outcome... :hug:
:D
What a save! What a game!
Great save by the Spanish goalkeeper, redeeming himself from you know what.
Morata scoring. :lmfao:
Beautiful goal!
Sounds like an entertaining game. :)
Ooof - poor Croatia :(
Well, Croatia has still more time to tie than they had vs etc.
It's pretty wild.
Said the commentator on the TSN feed "for the second game in a row they score five."
But in fact, they've scored six :lol:
Who said we're boring? :P
Threviel just disappeared, for some reason. :lol:
Croats punished for not putting away their good chances. Sad but that's football.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Well, Croatia has still more time to tie than they had vs etc.
Indeed :lol:
Now it's FunkMonk putting a curse on Croats with a chance that was not to be failed if hopes were to be kept.
Putting the kid to sleep and then returning to the TV was a minor disappointment. :hmm:
And I take back all my comments on this years Spain, it is not the horrible abomination of old.
Too late, you jinxed the Croats, not Jacob after all. :D
:cry:
Should've been a goal... but then again, if you're up at the Croatian goal with one minute left it does run out the time still.
Big anti climax for Croatia there. But order is restored to the force.
Great, now Tyr goes Mono. :rolleyes: :lol:
What a great game to watch. I didn't want either team to have to lose this one. Could easily have been 6-5 Croatia.
Well, this was fun. Sadly France will go all Rocroi on our arses but at least we got past one knockout.
We have a decent crop of young players, but they're still green and it shows.
I am always torn between thinking an ending like that is either fun and exciting or a total shitshow of bad defending. Maybe a little of both?
Is Lenglet supposed to be a good defender?
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 28, 2021, 02:18:53 PM
Lol France
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 02:03:26 PM
a total shitshow of bad defending
Still Early enough for le Génie français to dive and save les Bleus! :D
Quote from: Liep on June 28, 2021, 02:19:13 PM
Is Lenglet supposed to be a good defender?
Yes.
No.
Remember, there a few wounded in the French squad.
Maybe Américo Lapuerta would have made a difference. :hmm:
The French are not dominating at the moment.
Just watched Spain Croatia highlights. I see what you guys were shrieking about.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 02:45:36 PM
The French are not dominating at the moment.
They are lulling the Swiss into a false sense of security...then when they least expect it...BOOOM. That's right. They will never see it coming.
Quote:smarty:author=celedhring link=topic=16326.msg1319028#msg1319028 date=1624908694]
No.
Come on, he would not be playing for Barça, if it weren't the case. :smarty:
Allez le blanc!
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 02:45:36 PM
The French are not dominating at the moment.
They are lulling the Swiss into a false sense of security...then when they least expect it...BOOOM. That's right. They will never see it coming.
That, or la chatte à Dédé will strike again, or some appropriate refereeing. More than enough options really.
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2021, 02:55:23 PM
Allez le blanc!
There is more than one, come on. :lol:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2021, 02:55:23 PM
Allez le blanc!
There is more than one, come on. :lol:
Do you know what's the best thing with Switzerland?
[spoiler]They are about to kick France out of the cup, and also that the flag is a big plus.[/spoiler]
What's not to like with an underdog?
Great, now Threviel jinxed the Swiss. :(
Awww, damn it... :(
You guys just wait and see, Ukraine is going to annihilate their next opponent.
Already started, the Swiss missed an incredible chance.
Nice dive by Mbappé.
Oh my :ph34r:
Well, it was a foul, inside or outside? :hmm:
This tournament's VAR usage has been great.
Not very well shot. Lloris is not very good at stopping penalties.
The Swiss can only blame themselves and Threviel. :lol:
La chatte à Dédé strikes again!
I should learn to keep my damn dirty mouth shut. :cry:
Also, Ukraine will definitely win next game.
The Swiss have not so been thoroughly ambushed since 1798.
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2021, 03:17:31 PM
I should learn to keep my damn dirty mouth shut. :cry:
Also, Ukraine will definitely win next game.
Who will you support tomorrow? Asking for a friend.
Who'd have thought getting a penalty would be Switzerlands undoing.
That pogba goal though. Wow.
Okay, I'm gonna do it. Put it to the test.
Here we go:
Looks like France is through.
Everytime Pogba is on the ball it's like someone takes a PlayStation controller and just slams it in the top corner from 25 yards. Just unfair :lol:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 03:30:42 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2021, 03:17:31 PM
I should learn to keep my damn dirty mouth shut. :cry:
Also, Ukraine will definitely win next game.
Who will you support tomorrow? Asking for a friend.
That's obvious, Germany and Ukraine.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 03:37:03 PM
Okay, I'm gonna do it. Put it to the test.
Here we go:
Looks like France is through.
Wow
That was a lovely Swiss goal.
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2021, 03:17:31 PM
I should learn to keep my damn dirty mouth shut. :cry:
Also, Ukraine will definitely win next game.
See what happens when you shut up? :)
Through as in kaput, or through as in through to the next round?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2021, 03:40:40 PM
Through as in kaput, or through as in through to the next round?
Through as to the next round.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 28, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Everytime Pogba is on the ball it's like someone takes a PlayStation controller and just slams it in the top corner from 25 yards. Just unfair :lol:
Portuguese goal-keeper stopped a comparable shot. Now that Belgian goal...
another 3-3 in added time?
LOL I CANT TAKE THESE EUROS :lol:
Football matches aren't supposed to be that fun. What are they doing to the sport?
Quote from: celedhring on June 28, 2021, 03:49:33 PM
Football matches aren't supposed to be that fun. What are they doing to the sport?
Game's gone
This shit would never happen if Italy was playing. Damnit.
Every time I went away to do something involving water switzerland scores.
Wondering whether I should have a bath.
4-3 for France in RT would have been unfair anyways. :P
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 03:52:40 PM
This shit would never happen if Italy was playing. Damnit.
:secret:
Please update your clichés about Italy.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 03:37:03 PM
Okay, I'm gonna do it. Put it to the test.
Here we go:
Looks like France is through.
That's an impressive skill use it wisely lol
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 03:54:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 03:52:40 PM
This shit would never happen if Italy was playing. Damnit.
:secret:
Please update your clichés about Italy.
They have give up one goal so far in the entire tournament.
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 03:54:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 03:52:40 PM
This shit would never happen if Italy was playing. Damnit.
:secret:
Please update your clichés about Italy.
They have give up one goal so far in the entire tournament.
At the very end of regulation time which lead to overtime. ;)
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 04:02:07 PM
At the very end of regulation time which lead to overtime. ;)
Oh so they give up one goal since last fall and suddenly they can't shut down a game anymore? :P
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 04:02:07 PM
At the very end of regulation time which lead to overtime. ;)
Oh so they give up one goal since last fall and suddenly they can't shut down a game anymore? :P
Being taken to overtime by a valiant Austria means not shutting down the game. :)
Quote from: alfred russel on June 18, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Homies, for 20 years I've been telling you people, gotta make the goals bigger.
Most goals per game in a Euros since 1976.
:lol:
Quotetim colman
@timolsky
This same guy at 87mins and 91 mins is just the best.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4_2oBDXwAI-Cl4?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
:lol:
Quotetim colman
@timolsky
This same guy at 87mins and 91 mins is just the best.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4_2oBDXwAI-Cl4?format=jpg&name=small)
The beautiful game :cry:
:lol:
When accountants go wild
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 04:08:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 04:02:07 PM
At the very end of regulation time which lead to overtime. ;)
Oh so they give up one goal since last fall and suddenly they can't shut down a game anymore? :P
Being taken to overtime by a valiant Austria means not shutting down the game. :)
It was a fluke I tells ya!
Quote from: HVC on June 28, 2021, 04:19:29 PM
When accountants go wild
Switzerland: thrilling football, thrilling financial crime.
I hope the football gods further bless us with a penalty shootout.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
:lol:
Quotetim colman
@timolsky
This same guy at 87mins and 91 mins is just the best.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4_2oBDXwAI-Cl4?format=jpg&name=small)
The meme cycle keeps getting quicker 😂
Penalties :w00t: :ph34r:
I both hate and love penalties.
I don't want to watch, but I can't look away....
Some quality penalty shots so far.
LOOOOOOL
Ouch
OMG! :o
Would not have called this game
Quote from: HVC on June 28, 2021, 03:58:53 PM
That's an impressive skill use it wisely lol
:ph34r:
What a great day of football :lol:
Unbelievable
Swiss round of 16 curse broken!
Ricardo Rodriguez won't get a contract on his head, it's Switzerland after all, not Colombia.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 28, 2021, 04:46:05 PM
LOOOOOOL
Kyky is better at creating penalties than taking them, at least in this Euro.
That's ok Threviel, you can speak now. :)
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2021, 04:21:10 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 28, 2021, 04:19:29 PM
When accountants go wild
Switzerland: thrilling football, thrilling financial crime.
From the shopkeeper nation which gave us the City, no less. :frog:
French people: Wenger to manage France now?
Nah, Dédé will stay. He survived Portugal in 2016. Not to mention a great contract, would be very expensive to fire him.
Kyky will have to be put into police protection however for a while.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 04:50:55 PM
That's ok Threviel, you can speak now. :)
Yay, that flag is a big plus.
I stopped watching and played HoI4 instead.
Woo Switzerland. Didn't see that coming. So... Italy to win it?
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:10:25 PM
Woo Switzerland. Didn't see that coming. So... Italy to win it?
Tyr not hoping for an English victory?! What is it with Britons seemingly wanting to get deported to the continent lately?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:10:25 PM
Woo Switzerland. Didn't see that coming. So... Italy to win it?
Tyr not hoping for an English victory?! What is it with Britons seemingly wanting to get deported to the continent lately?
I'm realistic and don't see England getting past Germany.
Torn on whether I want them to win or not. The team I like but the fans are the worst and the media really doesn't need that.
Deportation to the Continent would be lovely though.
Just checked. Swiss is ranked 13th in the world. Huh.
Quote from: HVC on June 28, 2021, 05:14:10 PM
Just checked. Swiss is ranked 13th in the world. Huh.
They have improved quite a bit and gave up their defensive tactics they were once known for.
Beat Portugal in 2016, just after the Euro in a qualifyer game. Portugal ended first but with goal average (0-2 in Basel and 2-0 in Lisbon).
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:13:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:10:25 PM
Woo Switzerland. Didn't see that coming. So... Italy to win it?
Tyr not hoping for an English victory?! What is it with Britons seemingly wanting to get deported to the continent lately?
I'm realistic and don't see England getting past Germany.
Torn on whether I want them to win or not. The team I like but the fans are the worst and the media really doesn't need that.
Deportation to the Continent would be lovely though.
Well, it's in Wembley. England is known to enjoy "home advantage" (ahem), even against Germany. Less so since 1966 perhaps.
Even to France? Forced to learn French? :lol:
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:10:25 PM
Woo Switzerland. Didn't see that coming. So... Italy to win it?
Yeah I think Italy are the most likely to win and I've kind of liked them since day one - they just look good.
QuoteI'm realistic and don't see England getting past Germany.
Torn on whether I want them to win or not. The team I like but the fans are the worst and the media really doesn't need that.
Deportation to the Continent would be lovely though.
I genuinely don't know. I slightly suspect England might win - but that's purely because England haven't conceded and have looked defensively solid (which is Southgate's style), if not stolid.
But it's Germany so they should win and it's still a good team :hmm:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 28, 2021, 04:55:47 PM
French people: Wenger to manage France now?
Thinking a bit more about it, Zidane would also be a possibility, if Deschamps were to be fired or he resigned.
I still don't see it as likely.
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 04:46:45 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 28, 2021, 03:58:53 PM
That's an impressive skill use it wisely lol
:ph34r:
This is all Jake's fault. I hate him forever.
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 06:26:07 PM
This is all Jake's fault. I hate him forever.
:hug: :console:
Seen it claimed on twitter that the Croatia-Spain game is the first game ever in an Euro/WC to feature 8 different goalscorers. I can believe that.
For the neutrals around here: who am I supposed to root for now? :hmm:
I usually spin to France (like to be a contrarian) but that isn't a solution anymore...
There is Spain but that seems like a boring (obvious) solution.
Regarding football, always had a soft spot for the danes since the time we were in the same qualifying group for a couple of tournaments and they know how to play football unlike their boring northern neighbours.
There is always Germany...
Am I forgetting someone worthy?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:13:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 28, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2021, 05:10:25 PM
Woo Switzerland. Didn't see that coming. So... Italy to win it?
Tyr not hoping for an English victory?! What is it with Britons seemingly wanting to get deported to the continent lately?
I'm realistic and don't see England getting past Germany.
Torn on whether I want them to win or not. The team I like but the fans are the worst and the media really doesn't need that.
Deportation to the Continent would be lovely though.
Well, it's in Wembley. England is known to enjoy "home advantage" (ahem), even against Germany. Less so since 1966 perhaps.
Even to France? Forced to learn French? :lol:
With my partner and kid that's my top choice at the minute actually. Mega cheap housing and vast open spaces but still right next door to Switzerland.
Though yes. The French factor does rather ruin things.
Most ideally of course I'd be heading to a more sensible country.
Quote from: clandestino on June 29, 2021, 03:16:55 AM
There is Spain but that seems like a boring solution.
You got that right :lol:
I'd say go for the Danes since they seem real good right now and actually seems to have a shot or perhaps the Italians if you can stomach them. The Italians play an entertaining attacking football and they have left most of their distasteful behaviour behind a long time ago.
Quote from: Threviel on June 29, 2021, 03:39:48 AM
You got that right :lol:
I'd say go for the Danes since they seem real good right now and actually seems to have a shot or perhaps the Italians if you can stomach them. The Italians play an entertaining attacking football and they have left most of their distasteful behaviour behind a long time ago.
My douchebag-o-meter goes slightly a-wire with all those tatoos.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 28, 2021, 04:55:47 PM
French people: Wenger to manage France now?
Zidane is free as well... :ph34r:
Quote from: clandestino on June 29, 2021, 03:16:55 AM
For the neutrals around here: who am I supposed to root for now? :hmm:
I usually spin to France (like to be a contrarian) but that isn't a solution anymore...
There is Spain but that seems like a boring (obvious) solution.
Regarding football, always had a soft spot for the danes since the time we were in the same qualifying group for a couple of tournaments and they know how to play football unlike their boring northern neighbours.
There is always Germany...
Am I forgetting someone worthy?
:w00t:
Clandestino sighting! :cheers: Good to see you again, mate!
:cheers:
Hello!
I've been going a lot to your (former?) neighborhood since my family as moved to Ponte de Lima and works in VN Cerveira/Valença area. At least twice a year. Not as often across the border though :(
Quote from: clandestino on June 29, 2021, 04:21:26 AM
:cheers:
Hello!
I've been going a lot to your (former?) neighborhood since my family as moved to Ponte de Lima and works in VN Cerveira/Valença area. At least twice a year. Not as often across the border though :(
I spend quite a lot of time in that area, my family has a house right at the other side of the river. :lol: I mean, we often do our shopping at VN Cerveira's Pingo Doce. :ph34r:
:ph34r:
Should try to meet for a beer or two when this stuff allows.
Quote from: clandestino on June 29, 2021, 04:30:26 AM
:ph34r:
Should try to meet for a beer or two when this stuff allows.
I might be in the area next weekend, I'll let you know. :cheers:
Still in Lisbon. If everything goes according to plan I'll get a couple of weeks there in late September. I'll keep you updated. :cheers:
Quote from: clandestino on June 29, 2021, 04:45:30 AM
Still in Lisbon. If everything goes according to plan I'll get a couple of weeks there in late September. I'll keep you updated. :cheers:
Aaah, ok, I though you were up here as well.
Interesting note from Philip Oltermann about the tabloids:
QuotePhilip Oltermann
@philipoltermann
Whisper it quietly, but British today's tabloid coverage of England v Germany today is a far cry from "Let's Blitz Fritz" spirit of 1996. Bawdy, brash and fun, but also respectful.
I think it also reflects a generational shift (or two) in the England team itself. Strangely the references to the (football) past seems like part of the more "high-brow" football coverage which is a bit weird.
But I feel like we were spoiled yesterday and today will be full of less joyful, more stolid football :lol: :weep:
Edit: Oh - and obviously David Squires is on form :lol:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jun/29/david-squires-on-drama-and-chaos-at-the-business-end-of-euro-2020
Quote from: The Larch on June 29, 2021, 04:23:37 AM
Quote from: clandestino on June 29, 2021, 04:21:26 AM
:cheers:
Hello!
I've been going a lot to your (former?) neighborhood since my family as moved to Ponte de Lima and works in VN Cerveira/Valença area. At least twice a year. Not as often across the border though :(
I spend quite a lot of time in that area, my family has a house right at the other side of the river. :lol: I mean, we often do our shopping at VN Cerveira's Pingo Doce. :ph34r:
Before someone asks, Cerveira is in NW Portugal, Minho, bordering Galicia.
Raia so really on the border.
Clandestino in North Portugal: priceless! :D
Well this is a great start. England fans booing the German anthem.
Nice out of the Euro by the round of 16 league possible :
Netherlands, Portugal, Croatia, France and either England or Germany. Austria less flashy but quite all right.
Booing of the German anthem in Wembley! :lol: If these English "fans" had brains, they would knew that singing it with the old lyrics would be far more offensive.
Sadly England fans boo all national anthems - they booed Flower of Scotland etc too.
As if they have a leg to stand on with the worst anthem in the world <_<
Edit: Very sad the BBC have moved away from the weird drawing/illustrations for line ups :lol:
Germany's anthem is better. Step up your game England!
Nice black equipment for die deutsche nationale Mannschaft. English fans should like it. :P
First foul by Müller, bastard is not losing any time.
what capacity is Wembley at? It looks fuller than previous games.
Half or 2/3 ? Used to be 1/3.
Commentators spoke of 40,000, that would be less than half.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 11:01:42 AM
First foul by Müller, bastard is not losing any time.
God bless him :lol: :wub:
45000 persons. So with the current incidence about 65 persons infected with the delta variant.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 11:03:28 AM
Half or 2/3 ? Used to be 1/3.
Commentators spoke of 40,000, that would be less than half.
It's half full. I think they're going to 75% capacity for the semi-final and final (if still in London).
Edit: But Liep is right - it was 1/4 full for the group stages - increased for the last 16 (and quarters if there are any in London?).
Why did that guy lie down for the free kick...? :huh:
One thing I don't think I've ever understood. What's the advantage of rolling the ball before a free kick besides giving the defending team an opportunity to get closer to block the ball?
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 11:10:19 AM
Why did that guy lie down for the free kick...? :huh:
Didn't Messi score one time by shooting it below the wall? I guess the man lying down would stop that in theory.
Quote from: Liep on June 29, 2021, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 11:10:19 AM
Why did that guy lie down for the free kick...? :huh:
Didn't Messi score one time by shooting it below the wall? I guess the man lying down would stop that in theory.
It's a new defensive trick. Made popular when Juventus suffered a goal by Porto when Oliveira shot below the wall, with some poor defense by Ronaldo.
Quote from: Liep on June 29, 2021, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 11:10:19 AM
Why did that guy lie down for the free kick...? :huh:
Didn't Messi score one time by shooting it below the wall? I guess the man lying down would stop that in theory.
Yeah it's been a big thing recently but I don't think happened regularly before the last couple of seasons.
See Dias re-arranging Zinchenko doing football's loneliest job:
(https://d3nfwcxd527z59.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2021/02/07174745/ruben-dias-manchester-city-1.jpg)
Threviel
Feel free to "support" either team. :P
I'm finding myself rooting for Germany and I think it's either because McGuire looks like he's an asshole or because of that English fan they interviewed before the game who answered every question with IT'S COMING HOME!
I really like Saka - just a lovely player. Be nice if he had some support.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 11:21:16 AM
Threviel
Feel free to "support" either team. :P
Whoever loses, we win.
Although I think England qualifies as an underdog :P
Quote from: Liep on June 29, 2021, 11:21:59 AM
I'm finding myself rooting for Germany and I think it's either because McGuire looks like he's an asshole or because of that English fan they interviewed before the game who answered every question with IT'S COMING HOME!
Maguire totally looks like an asshole. :lol:
I am with Tyr - if England wins it's great. If England loses the insufferable booing fans will be unhappy, which is good.
Quote from: celedhring on June 29, 2021, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 11:21:16 AM
Threviel
Feel free to "support" either team. :P
Whoever loses, we win.
Although I think England qualifies as an underdog :P
Perhaps vs Germany, but not in Wembley dammit! :P
One thing I've also enjoyed - mostly noticable with the Welsh and French teams - has been when the camera zooms in on a player who's just missed or is complaining about an alleged foul and you can clearly see them saying "fuck" or "merde".
Could be "putain" as well for the French. :nerd:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 11:35:05 AM
Could be "putain" as well for the French. :nerd:
For sure, but the one I caught looked like "merde". I freely admit my ability to lip read the French language is perhaps not exceptional :lol:
Feels very lucky that wasn't a red.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 09:19:12 AM
But I feel like we were spoiled yesterday and today will be full of less joyful, more stolid football :lol: :weep:
Just going to re-up this :P
I enjoyed that half but neither side showing any real creativity so far. Change of pace after yesterday's chaos.
That was a lovely goal.
STERLING :w00t: :wub:
And Kane was involved despite me spending 50 of the last 75 minutes shouting at my TV to get him off :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 12:33:48 PM
STERLING :w00t: :wub:
And Kane was involved despite me spending 50 of the last 75 minutes shouting at my TV to get him off :lol:
Be comforted with him being offside because of a badly timed run if he had scored instead of Sterling. :P
:lol: But now I'm very wrong :w00t:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
:lol: But now I'm very wrong :w00t:
Yeah. Quality finish.
Low: I need 2 goals in 10 minutes.
Puts on Emre Can
:lol:
Quote from: Liep on June 29, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
:lol: But now I'm very wrong :w00t:
Yeah. Quality finish.
And Grealish terrific for both too. This is why I would like to play 7 attacking players :lol: :P
Jesus that little German girl was despondent :cry:
Quote from: Jacob on June 28, 2021, 06:27:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2021, 06:26:07 PM
This is all Jake's fault. I hate him forever.
:hug: :console:
Oh sure but you don't use your magic powers to smite the English. I see how it is. More Anglo-Canadian hatred against Francos :angry:
For your penance I demand you curse the Lightning in the Stanley Cup Finals. :contract:
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Oh sure but you don't use your magic powers to smite the English. I see how it is. More Anglo-Canadian hatred against Francos :angry:
For your penance I demand you curse the Lightning in the Stanley Cup Finals. :contract:
It's not something I turn on and off at will. It is not a power I impose on the cosmos. It's a feeling I get and when it gets strong enough and I express it, the cosmos smacks me in the face and says "lol no".
Germany in ruins
All Brits who chose Germany in the pool to be deported to the continent.
jacob, you should have used your powers for good.
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
My timing was very good, started watching the match just before the first score. The first thing I heard the announcer say was that this was no Magic Monday of football. And then goal was scored.
Germany could have a stayed in the game with their two chances. But it was not to be. Jacob is a cruel god.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
Indeed.
Although the only shocker really was France. Germany were favorites IMO but it was close. Portugal was playing against a good team as well.
I'm very curious as to how the British media will cover the England team now.
True.
I went back and forth about a million times on Germany-England - in the UK it seemed like reporters and pundits from overseas were more confident in England :lol: And I think this sort of game does matter psychologically - both beating Germany in a tournament which has never happened in my lifetime and frankly beating a good/traditional top team in a knock-out stage which I can't remember when it last happened. I think for these players in particular they probably now are starting to see and believe in themselves - which I hope they can carry on.
It also feels like we probably should stop moaning about Southgate being negative and defensive (:blush:) because still no goals conceded and he clearly has a plan which has, so far, worked and probably deserves a bit of trust rather than the frustration he's been getting :lol:
Edit: Also - again, as in 2018 - they do look like a team that like each other and are pretty together and happy which is rare for England.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 01:20:59 PM
I'm very curious as to how the British media will cover the England team now.
:lol: Well I'm already seeing "Sir Raheem Sterling" is trending - he got an MBE for Russia so it sounds about right.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 01:20:59 PM
I'm very curious as to how the British media will cover the England team now.
:lol: Well I'm already seeing "Sir Raheem Sterling" is trending - he got an MBE for Russia so it sounds about right.
Knighthoods, meh. We give away marquisates to our football heroes. :cool:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
Germany in ruins
:lol: At least we get a new start without Jogi Löw. #stundenull
I can't get worked up about it. I watched the game, but as mentioned before, my passion is gone. Maybe it would have been different watching it in a large group or so.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
I wonder if this could be a factor in itself, having already had games against top opposition.
Though I'd normally expect this to help them get match fit
Quote from: Tyr on June 29, 2021, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
I wonder if this could be a factor in itself, having already had games against top opposition.
Though I'd normally expect this to help them get match fit
Yeah - and the truth is that entire group seemed weird to me (and the side in a winning position for the most time was Hungary :(). France didn't look great and then looked a bit okay. Germany were great one game and then kind of shambolic. Portugal seemed solid then conceded four. It was all very weird - and unclear where their levels really were.
Yay for England!
But now time for a blue and yellow victory!
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
Not extraordinary. Told you Hungary sucked.
Sweden - Ukraine doesn't look like the most thrilling fixture. Doesn't help that there seems to only be about 47 spectators on stadium.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 02:00:05 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 29, 2021, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
I wonder if this could be a factor in itself, having already had games against top opposition.
Though I'd normally expect this to help them get match fit
Yeah - and the truth is that entire group seemed weird to me (and the side in a winning position for the most time was Hungary :(). France didn't look great and then looked a bit okay. Germany were great one game and then kind of shambolic. Portugal seemed solid then conceded four. It was all very weird - and unclear where their levels really were.
The Football Weekly podcast talked a little about this after yesterday's games, how some teams tend to rely on individual moments to break a game open, rather than all the players playing toward a defined system. I think that concept explains teams like France and Portugal, who played somewhat conservatively and pinged the ball around and hoped their big time players did something cool, and Switzerland, which implemented a certain gameplan with defined player roles and saw how effective it was against the French.
What's with the team colour choices on this bloody tournament?
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
Germany in ruins
:lol: At least we get a new start without Jogi Löw. #stundenull
Why the hate for Low - just been in the job too long?
Quote from: Tamas on June 29, 2021, 02:29:43 PM
What's with the team colour choices on this bloody tournament?
Yeah I noticed that yesterday in the Swiss game.
Everyone seems to be wearing their away kit when they are drawn as the away team even when there's no reason.
I hate hate hate that Swiss/Puma away strip too <_<
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2021, 02:40:42 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
Germany in ruins
:lol: At least we get a new start without Jogi Löw. #stundenull
Why the hate for Low - just been in the job too long?
No hate, just fatigue. He seems uninspired these days. Time for a new coach to breathe some life into the team again.
He was a quite successful coach after all.
Yeah - I always find it was weird he was allowed to carry on after 2018 and be the guy to start the refresh. That seemed a very strange decision.
But he was terrifically successful - so it makes sense in a way.
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2021, 02:40:42 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 29, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
Germany in ruins
:lol: At least we get a new start without Jogi Löw. #stundenull
Why the hate for Low - just been in the job too long?
No hate, just fatigue. He seems uninspired these days. Time for a new coach to breathe some life into the team again.
He was a quite successful coach after all.
Got it. Thanks.
Swe-Ukr is the most boring knockout game by a loooooooong shot. Neither team takes the slightest risk.
England should cruise through to the semi-final. :yucky:
Wut? I thought Sweden behaved unusually aggressive.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 29, 2021, 03:51:00 PM
Swe-Ukr is the most boring knockout game by a loooooooong shot. Neither team takes the slightest risk.
England should cruise through to the semi-final. :yucky:
Well Sweden managed to pull every ounce of joy out of Spain. Maybe they'll stop Sterling too.
Remember yesterday's games? Good times.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Extraordinary that all the group of death teams have now been knocked out :blink:
It is the group of death for all involved, after all. :(
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 10:56:45 AM
Booing of the German anthem in Wembley! :lol: If these English "fans" had brains, they would knew that singing it with the old lyrics would be far more offensive.
The Dutch public broadcaster just apologised for showing the wrong subtitles. :pinch:
Quote from: Threviel on June 29, 2021, 03:53:44 PM
Wut? I thought Sweden behaved unusually aggressive.
In relative terms, yes. :D
Though the red card after the video check against Sweden actually just confirmed what you said. :hmm:
Fortunately VAR caught that one. Way too reckless and a clear red.
Quote from: Maladict on June 29, 2021, 04:00:53 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 10:56:45 AM
Booing of the German anthem in Wembley! :lol: If these English "fans" had brains, they would knew that singing it with the old lyrics would be far more offensive.
The Dutch public broadcaster just apologised for showing the wrong subtitles. :pinch:
:lmfao:
Dank u Nederland for a time honoured tradition! :) Last ones to pull it were the Swiss, I believe.
That was brutal. Ouch.
Fuck that, a victory is not worth someones knee. Well deserved red card.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2021, 10:28:03 AMBefore someone asks...
I doubt anyone here is interested in our whereabouts.
I turned off the game at the end of the 1st part as I didn't want to risk death by boredom. Did I do the right choice?
You missed a slide tackle at knee level. Back to the '80s.
Plus one goal.
It's a pretty... uhm... robust game.
They should have gone straight to penalties. These players are exhausted, spent and just physical messes at this stage.
BBC commentator "three minutes of extra time. It seems we have been playing for an eternity." :lol:
Zinchenko! :w00t:
Not so well deserved Ukrainian victory, but that disgusting red card makes me almost enjoy the defeat.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 01:20:59 PM
I'm very curious as to how the British media will cover the England team now.
Early signs are that the Sun is going to stop racially abusing Raheem Sterling - for a day at least <_<
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5FGtVAXEAE1-Bw?format=jpg&name=small)
I expect, by tomorrow, by our resident Brits, a selection of the best of the worst of English tabloids after the victory on the Nationalelf. :)
As a nonplayer I don't understand why more people in Muller's one on zero situation don't chip the ball over the goalie.
From everything I've seen it's all about England - "ending 55 years of pain", "dare to dream" stuff. The best is Metro's headline: "The jinx: it's all over". Although I also really love the Star - as is so often the case lately :blink: :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5FKBM5XIAAWpzH?format=jpg&name=small)
As in the run-up the British papers haven't really done the stuff they did 25 years ago - because the country's changed in the last 25 years. To be honest I saw more of that style of tabloid coverage from Archie Rhind-Tutt's selection of German papers.
Oof. I don't want to play the clip of the knee shot. Too queasy. Like one of those horse races where the horse keeps running on three legs.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2021, 04:42:57 PM
Oof. I don't want to play the clip of the knee shot. Too queasy. Like one of those horse races where the horse keeps running on three legs.
I couldn't believe how many times they replayed it on TV. With things like that (and admittedly it wasn't a break) they normally show it once and that's it.
It was not necessary.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2021, 04:40:58 PM
As a nonplayer I don't understand why more people in Muller's one on zero situation don't chip the ball over the goalie.
He had a wide open side, he just missed.
So, QF are as follow:
Belgium - Italy
Switzerland - Spain
Ukraine - England
Czech Republic - Denmark
I wasn't expecting many of those countries to reach this stage...
England do have a seemingly weaker side, so reaching the final should be the expectation for them. Whoever wins the Belgium - Italy match should be the favourite for the other final spot, IMO.
A Spain-Italy semi-final would be very fun :ph34r:
Btw, I must say it seems slightly unfair for England to have played this game in Wembley, given that the semis and the final will take place there as well. If they reach the final the only game they'd have played outside of it would be the QF.
Belgium Italy is the game to watch.
And then the winner playing Spain would be the other great game. The other side of the draw is not so interesting.
Wait - England AND Ukraine won today?
:o
But now they have to play each other?
:unsure:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 05:03:26 PM
A Spain-Italy semi-final would be very fun :ph34r:
Luís Enrique will get '94 flashbacks for sure... :ph34r:
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2021, 05:05:28 PMBelgium Italy is the game to watch.
That game should, on paper, be excellent. Two teams in form that play an attractive, attacking style against each other? Please!
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 29, 2021, 04:42:37 PM
From everything I've seen it's all about England - "ending 55 years of pain", "dare to dream" stuff. The best is Metro's headline: "The jinx: it's all over". Although I also really love the Star - as is so often the case lately :blink: :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5FKBM5XIAAWpzH?format=jpg&name=small)
:lol:
I feel like it's going to be England winning the Euros at Wembley this year. It's going to be insufferable. :lol:
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 05:13:24 PM
I feel like it's going to be England winning the Euros at Wembley this year. It's going to be insufferable. :lol:
That cannot happen. That MUST not happen. Jacob do your thing.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 05:13:24 PM
I feel like it's going to be England winning the Euros at Wembley this year. It's going to be insufferable. :lol:
Karma would demand a massive choke job on the final in that case. :lol:
Quote from: HVC on June 29, 2021, 05:15:44 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 05:13:24 PM
I feel like it's going to be England winning the Euros at Wembley this year. It's going to be insufferable. :lol:
That cannot happen. That MUST not happen. Jacob do your thing.
No pressure or anything :D
Hey! With great power comes great responsibility
:P
Don't worry I'm pretty sure we're gonna win it.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 05:13:24 PM
I feel like it's going to be England winning the Euros at Wembley this year. It's going to be insufferable. :lol:
I am now confident that England will win and the feel-good factor will give the Tories a 5-point boost in the polls <_<
Yeah, there's a very serious risk that England might go all the way and of course the gammon will credit St. Brexit.
On that though Belgium whopping England in the final would have something delicious.... Though the shit eaters likely think the same of the reverse :ph34r:
Quote from: The Larch on June 29, 2021, 05:04:28 PM
Btw, I must say it seems slightly unfair for England to have played this game in Wembley, given that the semis and the final will take place there as well. If they reach the final the only game they'd have played outside of it would be the QF.
It's always the case with hosts though.
I guess host cities could have been shuffled so teams are unlikely to ever play at home but that seems a bit wasteful to me.
Quote from: Tyr on June 30, 2021, 02:28:04 AMQuote from: The Larch on June 29, 2021, 05:04:28 PM
Btw, I must say it seems slightly unfair for England to have played this game in Wembley, given that the semis and the final will take place there as well. If they reach the final the only game they'd have played outside of it would be the QF.
It's always the case with hosts though.
I guess host cities could have been shuffled so teams are unlikely to ever play at home but that seems a bit wasteful to me.
No other team with a host city could have played on it by the way the knockout bracket was established (Seville hosted the Belgium - Portugal game, Copenhagen hosted Croatia - Spain and Amsterdam hosted Wales - Denmark), England was the only team who could have played their game from the round of 16 on home soil (as long as they finished 1st in the group stage, which England did).
Rooting for the Denmark - Spain final while pondering which team to support then. :hmm:
Quote from: Tyr on June 30, 2021, 02:28:04 AM
Yeah, there's a very serious risk that England might go all the way and of course the gammon will credit St. Brexit.
:lol:
In a way though there's an almost perfect symmetry to that. Harold Wilson always blamed his loss to Ted Heath (which is otherwise inexplicable) on England losing to Germany and being knocked out of the World Cup - and more specifically to substituting Bobby Moore because he felt that gave a sign to the West Germans to pile on the pressure. And the biggest consequence of that election: the UK joining the EEC :ph34r: :lol:
It would be a very handy device for a writer.
QuoteNo other team with a host city could have played on it by the way the knockout bracket was established (Seville hosted the Belgium - Portugal game, Copenhagen hosted Croatia - Spain and Amsterdam hosted Wales - Denmark), England was the only team who could have played their game from the round of 16 on home soil (as long as they finished 1st in the group stage, which England did).
Yeah - it's been noted a lot here that if England won their group it could basically be a home tournament.
Edit: Oh apparently England-Germany was meant to be in Dublin even during the updated covid schedule but Ireland pulled out.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 30, 2021, 04:11:41 AMEdit: Oh apparently England-Germany was meant to be in Dublin even during the updated covid schedule but Ireland pulled out.
That makes sense, but it still seems a bit unfair that England got to play their match at home when everyone else went elsewhere (in fact there was another match at Wembley, the Italy - Austria game, which I guess was the one originally scheduled there).
For sure.
I have been surprised by how much I've enjoyed the Euros. It reminds me of 2018 when I wasn't particularly excited going in but it's then be really fun football in a really surprising way. And pre-covid I thought the multi-city tournament was a bit daft, and with covid happening I wasn't sure if it felt appropriate at all and I was equally unimpressed with the multi-country approach - although I was looking with friends at attending games in the Dublin-Bilbao group :(
I still kind of think the Seville-St Petersburg/Rome-Baku travel is not a good thing. I thought a better idea would be to basically admit covid has changed everything and run it in one region - so UK and Ireland, Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Benelux etc. In part I still think that would have been a better idea not least because as you say England effectively have a home tournament because they won their group which is an advantage no-one else would have desite it being a multi-city/multi-country tournament. Whereas at least if it was just in one country/region that's kind of a given.
I feel like we're sort of between two stools of what UEFA wanted and a single country/region tournament where we've kind of got the worst of both world. I slightly worry we'll have the worst of both so England gets a home tournament, but the tournament still spreads covid round the continent :ph34r:
Just as an aside - very happy that both captains wore the rainbow arband last night. I think that's the first game it's happened and is nice to see.
Its not like big stadiums are needed due to covid so if could always have been made a home tournament for some weaker nations/a collection of them.
A nordic tournament for instance. Maybe with a Wembley final still.
I totally missed it happening on TV but apparently the Germans were the first after Scotland to kneel with England. So :hug: to them for that.
If England do manage to go all the way I really hope they play up this side.
This is quite a lovely moment - and I do grudgingly like Jordan Henderson for stuff like this - and more widely it is very weird being English and having a team you can like and be sort of proud of :lol:
QuoteJordan Henderson
@JHenderson
Hi Joe great to hear you enjoyed the game as you should. No one should be afraid to go and support their club or country because football is for everyone no matter what. Thanks for your support, enjoy the rest of the Euros. Flexed biceps Rainbow flag
QuoteJoe (they/them) #BLM
@joeywh1te
Also, this is a really small and personal point but today was my first game at Wembley in full makeup and overtly queer (as opposed to just camp). Absolutely no issues from fans and some lovely chats.
Despite being absolutely petrified pre game, really proud of our fans Transgender flag Rainbow flag
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5Eh-DCWEAEgqFl?format=jpg&name=small)
Again just utterly unimaginable with England teams of even a few years ago.
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 12:50:34 PM
Jesus that little German girl was despondent :cry:
Seeing some horrid comments on twitter about her - an example
https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/1410068840428544001
https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/1410068840428544001/photo/1
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 30, 2021, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 29, 2021, 12:50:34 PM
Jesus that little German girl was despondent :cry:
Seeing some horrid comments on twitter about her - an example
https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/1410068840428544001
People are disgusting, jesus
It's twitter. It is more surprising when there are not horrible comments about something.
Sigh. I'm not shocked alas. That image has been splashed about a lot and it was inevitable the cunts would be laughing about it
Quote from: Tyr on June 30, 2021, 05:20:44 PM
Sigh. I'm not shocked alas. That image has been splashed about a lot and it was inevitable the cunts would be laughing about it
The thing that struck me was that people in pubs made the comments immediately upon seeing her crying. And then went on social media to brag about making the comments or to express how proud they were to be in the pub at the time. It gives a good insight into the sort of thinking that went into the Brexit support.
I mean I wouldn't necessarily link it to Brexit - I mean these are two Remainers:
QuoteBen Judah
@b_judah
Camera switched briefly to a crying German child — ha, now you know what all our childhoods were like.
Leonardo Carella
@leonardocarella
Replying to
@b_judah
and
@tom_nuttall
People in the pub burst out laughing Face with tears of joy
(One British-French, the other, I think, Italian).
All cced by Economist Berlin reporter. Those tweets that Stan Collymore are far nastier/more personal.
But I can't be the only person to have chuckled at that sort of thing (I didn't see this kid) especially when it's a rival while remembering times when I was a kid and cried at football results - and I really remember my brother being in absolute floods when Portugal knocked out England. Like we've all been there as the crying kid - it's human right? (Mildly panicked I'm a monster....)
Although I admire the German commentators line: "it's no reason to cry, it's just football." :lol:
I feel bad for the kid - I saw the image during the broadcast.
And while saying "haha, know you know what our childhood was like" (because we used to lose to your team) is neither kind nor filled with empathy, neither is it particularly egregious IMO - especially since they didn't say it to her directly.
Quote from: Jacob on June 30, 2021, 05:54:59 PM
I feel bad for the kid - I saw the image during the broadcast.
And while saying "haha, know you know what our childhood was like" (because we used to lose to your team) is neither kind nor filled with empathy, neither is it particularly egregious IMO - especially since they didn't say it to her directly.
Sure. There was definitely a bit of that. Kind of dodgy since her photo is being plastered all over the Internet and she likely goes to school in the UK but... Yeah
But screaming suck it you little nazi?.... No. Lots of people crossing the line and not getting it.
Yeah - 100%. The stuff that Collymore is linking to is disgusting. But I feel like if you support a team with any hope - we've all kind of been there as the crying kid and as the adult who's had that expereince with schadenfreude. Although my favourite response to this was a Scottish fan who just said "Christ, imagine if Scottish weans cried when we lost at football" :lol:
Separately just saw the videof Rio Ferdinand playing in a game with Stonewall FC which is gay football team in London - in one of their strips which is in the trans flag colours.
I don't know if this is the same everywhere in Europe. But it feels to me like this tournament is genuinely kind of groundbreaking in the men's game in Europe at least in terms of the sort of visible solidarity with LGBT people - who are often fans or players. There's Neuer with the armband in Budapest and the controversy with UEFA and the Hungarian government (including the moment when UEFA were investigating if the armband was "political"), the row over the Allianz and then the response of German monuments and other stadiums in rainbow colours, both captains in England-Germany wearing the armband - things like Henderson's comment above. It's like nothing I've seen before in men's football and it's quite moving to see - I hope it does lead to more of a lasting shift but it is really striking.
And I suspect this might be an issue in Qatar - as well as all the other human rights issues - I suspect this may be a thing for Western European nations. And I think it might now be an ongoing issue in football in Europe - in the way that racism is - while I think previously homophobia was always mentioned in recent years but not in an engaged or meaningful way, especially because I think there are black players while so far there haven't been any openly gay players, but it just feels like there are now players who may be straight but will raise it. I hope it lasts.
Edit: I've mainly seen it with Germany and England - I'm not sure about other teams, but I think it might have been a few other mainly Western European countries.
Quote from: Tyr on July 01, 2021, 03:51:08 AM
But screaming suck it you little nazi?.... No. Lots of people crossing the line and not getting it.
Yeah, calling her a Nazi is obviously way across the line and shitty.
Quote from: Jacob on June 30, 2021, 05:54:59 PM
I feel bad for the kid - I saw the image during the broadcast.
And while saying "haha, know you know what our childhood was like" (because we used to lose to your team) is neither kind nor filled with empathy, neither is it particularly egregious IMO - especially since they didn't say it to her directly.
Ok but is not at all what is in the content of what I linked.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 30, 2021, 05:34:14 PM
I mean I wouldn't necessarily link it to Brexit - I mean these are two Remainers:
QuoteBen Judah
@b_judah
Camera switched briefly to a crying German child — ha, now you know what all our childhoods were like.
Leonardo Carella
@leonardocarella
Replying to
@b_judah
and
@tom_nuttall
People in the pub burst out laughing Face with tears of joy
(One British-French, the other, I think, Italian).
All cced by Economist Berlin reporter. Those tweets that Stan Collymore are far nastier/more personal.
But I can't be the only person to have chuckled at that sort of thing (I didn't see this kid) especially when it's a rival while remembering times when I was a kid and cried at football results - and I really remember my brother being in absolute floods when Portugal knocked out England. Like we've all been there as the crying kid - it's human right? (Mildly panicked I'm a monster....)
Although I admire the German commentators line: "it's no reason to cry, it's just football." :lol:
Not sure what the "it" is you are referring to. If you are referring to what I linked it is not at all, "I cried as a kid too".
I really don't wish the comments that were made to be normalized or in any way excused.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 01, 2021, 10:49:31 AM
Ok but is not at all what is in the content of what I linked.
For sure. I wasn't commenting about the content you linked. You told me it was awful and I believe you. I didn't even look at it, because frankly I don't need to read stuff where people are being shitty to children on social media.
I was commenting on the comment Tyr posted - "now you know what our childhoods were like" which was, IMO, within bounds if not exactly kind and empathetic.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 01, 2021, 10:51:01 AM
Not sure what the "it" is you are referring to. If you are referring to what I linked it is not at all, "I cried as a kid too".
I really don't wish the comments that were made to be normalized or in any way excused.
I really wish you'd refrain from making the Euro thread about shitty shitheads being shitheads on social media.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 01, 2021, 10:51:01 AM
Not sure what the "it" is you are referring to. If you are referring to what I linked it is not at all, "I cried as a kid too".
I really don't wish the comments that were made to be normalized or in any way excused.
I don't know what to tell you man. Those kinds of comments are totally normal and expected on Twitter, and have been for about a decade. It is a vehicle designed to facilitate those sorts of comments.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 01, 2021, 10:51:01 AM
Not sure what the "it" is you are referring to. If you are referring to what I linked it is not at all, "I cried as a kid too".
I really don't wish the comments that were made to be normalized or in any way excused.
Basically what Jake said - I totally agree on the comments you linked to as disgusting and I think sharing that picture of the kid is also really unnecessary.
There are others that are within bounds including those I was referring to and copied which were made by more remainy people. I don't care enough about international football, plus my loyalties are muted and conflicted - everyone I grew up with cheered England getting knocked out of anything, my dad is an Ireland fan (and an anyone but England fan :lol:) and I lived in Scotland. But I can't honestly say I've not at least chuckled if not outright cheered at fans including kids in Liverpool kits crying when they get knocked out of things. So I think that reaction - especially in a pub against a rival is absolutely not kind or empathetic, but I think it's broader and more common and wider than a Brexit thing and different from the comments you linked.
And I query with those if it's a good idea to show them like that because I don't know how many followers those accounts have because I don't want to engage in them any more than other Twitter racists, but I'd guess it's fewer than Stan Collymore's 900,000 followers. I always slightly wonder the cost benefit of shining a light v expanding their reach - it's different than if you inadvertantly come across it on your timeline and you can just block and ignore. Or, say, real things which you can't ignore and where I think social media helps drive change, like the minority who still boo the taking of the knee but are now overwhelmingly drowned out by the rest of the stadium or hopefully something similar will happen with the English booing of other national anthems which happens in stadiums and always a disgrace - and there was a really strong negative reaction on social media about that, like the taking the knee booing, so I hope that will shift too.
Great OG to start the Switzerland-Spain 1/4 final. 1-0 for Spain. :P
Not watching, but the text updates indicates that Spain is up to their usual football-as-entertainment-destroying shenanigans.
Still trying to jinx Switzerland or what?
:o (is it happening again? :ph34r:)
Switzerland tie with a fluke from Spanish backs Américo Lapuerta and Torres. :D
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 02, 2021, 12:25:43 PM
Switzerland tie with a fluke from Spanish backs Américo Lapuerta and Torres. :D
Is it a fluke? I'd say - just with that backpass too - that from across the games Spain look like they have a defensive mistake in them (and struggle to break down good defences).
Also I don't like that Spain aren't in red and someone else is <_<
:lol:
The text-updates-with-comments that I check now and then seems to root heavily for Switzerland, consensus seems to be that Spain is horribly boring and most want them out.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 02, 2021, 12:25:43 PM
Switzerland tie with a fluke from Spanish backs Américo Lapuerta and Torres. :D
Is it a fluke? I'd say - just with that backpass too - that from across the games Spain look like they have a defensive mistake in them (and struggle to break down good defences).
Also I don't like that Spain aren't in red and someone else is <_<
A fluke from a crappy backpass. ;)
Quote from: Threviel on July 02, 2021, 12:27:30 PM
:lol:
Switzerland got a red card following your intervention. Can't you just shut up? :D
I'm just happy being vindicated about my Spain-loathing.
Oof. If only Switzerland had taken that chance right after their goal....
Though Spain have missed a tonne.
Yeah it is crazy that Spain have missed so many. I wouldn't be surprised if they get another 20 shots before penalities, I also wouldn't be shocked if they missed them all.
Quote from: Threviel on July 02, 2021, 12:56:25 PM
I'm just happy being vindicated about my Spain-loathing.
I really don't think the Nati appreciates playing shorthanded just to vindicate somebody who does not even watch the game. :P
I beg to differ my dear duke.
I would say that Switzerland would go to the penalty shootout with an advantage given their goal keeper is on fire.
Also the ITV commentator has mentioned that Spain has apparently missed 4 of their last 5 open play penalties :ph34r:
Hüp Schwyz!
Will Morata shoot?
Let's hope Morata tries to shoot.
Well, Sommer does not even have to try to stop them it seems.
Let's hope that this is the Sommer of Spanish humiliation.
Spanish goalkeeper Unai Simon just stopped a penalty, the Threviel effect. :lol:
Some excellent keeping here :o
I should just stfu :shutup: :cry:
Not so good shooting however.
Huge pressure on Oyazabal the Spanish shooter now, scoring means semi-finals.
Quote from: Threviel on July 02, 2021, 01:41:07 PM
I should just stfu :shutup: :cry:
:lmfao:
Switzerland reminds me a bit of Poland in the last Euro, first shootout won, second lost.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 02, 2021, 01:41:59 PM
Huge pressure on Oyazabal the Spanish shooter now, scoring means semi-finals.
Possibly the coolest of the lot.
<_< :yucky:
Feel bad for the Swiss.
De Bruyne is back. Eden Hazard, no. :hmm:
Without both, I'd say advantage Italy.
Hazard has been kind of uninspiring, no?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2021, 01:51:40 PM
Hazard has been kind of uninspiring, no?
No to your no.
I think Lukaku is exceptional - and could be very good against the Italian defence. But I think Italy are looking better.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Lukaku has had trouble scoring in the knock-out phase, now would be the time to break this tradition.
Threviel, any insights? :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 01:29:28 PM
Also the ITV commentator has mentioned that Spain has apparently missed 4 of their last 5 open play penalties :ph34r:
The last 5, actually. :ph34r:
Quote from: The Larch on July 02, 2021, 01:54:14 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
You can thank Threviel for that. :)
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 02, 2021, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: The Larch on July 02, 2021, 01:54:14 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
You can thank Threviel for that. :)
I'm doing my best to spread the gospel of Spain and that match really was propaganda for me. :lol:
Today I root for Italy, Belgium always folds.
Italy doomed!
:lol:
Italian goal disallowed for offside after video check. Keep going Threviel. :D
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Also I don't like that Spain aren't in red and someone else is <_<
Why aren't Italy wearing blue? <_<
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Also I don't like that Spain aren't in red and someone else is <_<
Why aren't Italy wearing blue? <_<
Considered away team in Monaco di Baviera, so second jersey. B&W TVs? :D
I hate that. Belgium wear red so no risk of confusion. And Italy should be in blue <_<
Poor Switzerland. So close.
Belgium playing defense like at the end of the game vs Portugal. Problem is, they are trailing not leading 1-0. :hmm:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
I hate that. Belgium wear red so no risk of confusion. And Italy should be in blue <_<
Colour blindness.
Quote from: Barrister on July 02, 2021, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
I hate that. Belgium wear red so no risk of confusion. And Italy should be in blue <_<
Colour blindness.
Ah - interesting. That makes sense.
I really like this Italy team.
Belgium, badly dominated during most of the first half, managed to score on a penalty just before half time.
This always wear the away strip business.
I wonder if it's some kind of make it colour blind spectator friendly thing?
Oh that's such a shame for Spinazsola - he's been a joy this tournament :(
Quote from: Tyr on July 02, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
This always wear the away strip business.
I wonder if it's some kind of make it colour blind spectator friendly thing?
Apparently. Which is nice. My assumption was it was to sell more strips :ph34r:
Belgium always folds, far better here than in the semi's.
Told you.
Spain-Italy :ph34r: :w00t:
:lol:
Spain-Italy will hopefully be glorious, Spain has no defense and a bad offense. Hopefully it will be a whipping in the style of Holland 2014.
Or Italy makes an early own goal and Spain ruins all the fun with their style of play.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 03:58:20 PM
Spain-Italy :ph34r: :w00t:
Luís Enrique is already feeling the traumatic flashbacks, but using them to fuel his fury. :ph34r:
(https://www.mundodeportivo.com/r/GODO/MD/p7/Futbol/Imagenes/2020/04/10/Recortada/img_cfigueras_20200409-194736_imagenes_md_efe_efespeight830685-kvhE-U48400658977i0B-980x554@MundoDeportivo-Web.jpg)
Quote from: Threviel on July 02, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Spain-Italy will hopefully be glorious, Spain has no defense and a bad offense. Hopefully it will be a whipping in the style of Holland 2014.
Or Italy makes an early own goal and Spain ruins all the fun with their style of play.
Threviel has spoken so there are more reasons to hope than before for Spain, given how accurate he has been so far towards Spain. :D
Italy to win it all this year. They haven't had a bad period in 5 games.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 03:38:52 PM
Oh that's such a shame for Spinazsola - he's been a joy this tournament :(
Torn Achilles' tendon :bleeding: Wishing him the best, but I fear he won't be playing a game for a long time.
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on July 03, 2021, 02:08:56 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 03:38:52 PM
Oh that's such a shame for Spinazsola - he's been a joy this tournament :(
Torn Achilles' tendon :bleeding: Wishing him the best, but I fear he won't be playing a game for a long time.
L.
:( Could be one year/whole season to recover.
Quote from: Pedrito on July 03, 2021, 02:08:56 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 02, 2021, 03:38:52 PM
Oh that's such a shame for Spinazsola - he's been a joy this tournament :(
Torn Achilles' tendon :bleeding: Wishing him the best, but I fear he won't be playing a game for a long time.
L.
Oh that's really bad :(
That's such a shame.
Make Tuborg and Gammel Dansk ready, today we are røde o hvide!
Go Denmark!
Not sure if Threviel is trying to jinx the Danes. :hmm:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 03, 2021, 11:00:56 AM
Not sure if Threviel is trying to jinx the Danes. :hmm:
I just can't believe he forgot the g.
Quote from: Liep on July 03, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 03, 2021, 11:00:56 AM
Not sure if Threviel is trying to jinx the Danes. :hmm:
I just can't believe he forgot the g.
Sorry, did not have the mouth filled with mashed potatoes when I sounded it. I'm rooting for the Danes, have always enjoyed them since the glories of '92 and '98.
That was quick
Yay! Go little brother!
Quote from: HVC on July 03, 2021, 11:05:56 AM
That was quick
Was it corner though? Goal itself is legit.
Replay looks Like it hit the defenders knee on the way out
Quote from: HVC on July 03, 2021, 11:10:53 AM
Replay looks Like it hit the defenders knee on the way out
Right. Got no replay over here.
The famous Danish psychic medium Karsten Torebjer claims that the Danes will win with 3 goals.
Mæhle's pass to Dolberg. :mmm:
Incredible.
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
The famous Danish psychic medium Karsten Torebjer claims that the Danes will win with 3 goals.
:lol:
Threviel at it again. 2-1 for the Danes now.
Stop before it's too late! :D
Damn, I'm guessing that a lot of Danes are nervously nibbling on their smörrebröd and drinking beer after beer.
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
Damn, I'm guessing that a lot of Danes are nervously nibbling on their smörrebröd and drinking beer after beer.
Well. Yeah. They're Danes.
But how are they reacting to the game?
:w00t::w00t::w00t:
:w00t:
OMG that was too intense!
Really strong effort by the Czechs, I almost couldn't bear watching.
Quote from: Jacob on July 03, 2021, 12:59:18 PM
OMG that was too intense!
Really strong effort by the Czechs, I almost couldn't bear watching.
Jeps. Goddamn that was a tough 2nd half. But the semi-finals! Unbelievable!
Good job Danes.
I would be highly amused if Ukraine kicks out the English.
But that's not going to happen, barring Threviel intervention :whistle:
Scary point by the commentators that Denmark did beat England at Wembley in a friendly two years back :ph34r:
Quote from: Tyr on July 03, 2021, 01:12:29 PM
Scary point by the commentators that Denmark did beat England at Wembley in a friendly two years back :ph34r:
Our last semi ended quite well.
(https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/resolve/image_1240/image/70/701471/7849087-soccer-euro92-den-nld.jpg)
I'm torn. On the one hand the English team seems like a nice and friendly group of young men. On the other the English people seem to be racist, intolerant, inbred twats. Kind of the anti-Spain.
But then Ukraine. Just uninteresting.
Let's hope for a Den-Eng semi.
The good thing with England is that they have the best anthem.
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 01:29:01 PM
The good thing with England is that they have the best anthem.
World in Motion by New Order? Agreed :P
(https://external-preview.redd.it/qpRLTYQblJzy9djTavtiykxzNjece597SahroZx1UVk.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e6b252bec10e4a8947a3a04cefdf2b322e96739f)
According to - I think DW Sport - reports UEFA also refused to display the rainbow ads in Russia or Baku. You know they take something seriously when they're even turning down commercial partners/sponsors <_<
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2021, 01:45:58 PM
According to - I think DW Sport - reports UEFA also refused to display the rainbow ads in Russia or Baku. You know they take something seriously when they're even turning down commercial partners/sponsors <_<
Some sponsors reportedly said they'd switch back to their regular logos "because June is over." VW supposedly wanted to stick with rainbow colors, but were forbidden to do so.
Even though I picked England to win I'm still disappointed lol
I don't hate this and haven't yet shouted at my TV to bring on Rashford/Grealish/Foden/Bellingham - which is progress on the previous games :lol:
I agree with this tweet.
https://twitter.com/football_mumble/status/1411369497299197957?s=20
"Hang Joakim Mæhle's assist in the Louvre... #CZEDEN"
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5YxE5HWYAQlfE0?format=jpg&name=small)
Ukraine in ruins
Perhaps Karsten Torebjer saw the wrong game in his crystal ball.
It's very strange to see a realistic England playing to their capabilities and not self-image. Perhaps England would have a few more tournament wins if they had done so earlier.
Solid.
And pleased Luke Shaw has had a good tournament because I think probably about once a week about the time his boss publicly called him fat :ph34r: :weep:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 01:29:01 PM
The good thing with England is that they have the best anthem.
World in Motion by New Order? Agreed :P
John Barnes is the true father of rap.
Ukraine is completely checked out of the game already.
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 03:12:05 PM
It's very strange to see a realistic England playing to their capabilities and not self-image. Perhaps England would have a few more tournament wins if they had done so earlier.
Yeah good point.
Easily the most likeable England team I remember.
Quote from: Tyr on July 03, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 01:29:01 PM
The good thing with England is that they have the best anthem.
World in Motion by New Order? Agreed :P
John Barnes is the true father of rap.
He was performing it live at the Croydon Boxpark during the Germany game :lol:
Feeling things I've never really felt watching England before - like confidence, hope, calm. It's very strange :blink:
And just to think none of this would be happening if Sam Allardyce hadn't been filmed being corrupt over a pint of wine. A really weird sliding doors moment.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2021, 03:25:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 03, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2021, 01:29:01 PM
The good thing with England is that they have the best anthem.
World in Motion by New Order? Agreed :P
John Barnes is the true father of rap.
And just to think none of this would be happening if Sam Allardyce hadn't been filmed being corrupt over a pint of wine. A really weird sliding doors moment.
:lol:
If only they'd never hired allardyce to begin with. Sunderland would still have a football team 😔
Quote from: Tamas on July 03, 2021, 03:25:28 PMEasily the most likeable England team I remember.
100% - I can't think of an England I've liked before (even if some of those players have grown on me as pundits/commentators/managers). They are nice young men - who are thoughtful and sort of socially responsible (Sterling kicked off the conversation about racism in football in England, Marcus Rashford goes without saying, Henderson has repeatedly been a good LGBT ally etc) and open/with good emotional intelligence like seeing Pickford talk about how a sports psychologist has helped him.
The Guardian had a piece on it:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/03/how-england-players-went-from-being-targets-of-boo-boys-to-likable-lads
And I think Southgate is absolutely key to this - as I say, imagine if Allardyce were in charge of this lot with all of his toxicness (not just toxic masculinity but definitely that) :(
Southgate has a good rep in our household. It is pleasing to see a bunch of pleasant lads outperform less pleasing England teams from the past :cool:
So England - Denmark, with England having home advantage... :ph34r:
I jinxed it.
I hadn't watched a single moment of the entire Euro. Still haven't, but I listened on the radio to England-Ukraine.
:(
Just saw a nordic journo pointing out another unfair aspect of having the semis and final in Wembley with England in the tournament, and it is that no other country can have fans travelling to those games, so England is the only team that will have a supporting atmosphere.
Waaa waaa waaa.
As a total aside I am particularly enjoying that this must be insufferable for all those bell-ends who ostentatiously announced they wouldn't be supporting England while they take a knee/heighten the contradictions :mmm: :lol:
Edit:
Quote
Southgate has a good rep in our household. It is pleasing to see a bunch of pleasant lads outperform less pleasing England teams from the past :cool:
An example of Southgate - I saw in the interview he was asked a general question about the team and he named every player who hasn't any playing time and said how important they were to the squad's togetherness and culture. He's just great :wub:
Bad day for the Slavic countries. :( I think Ukraine had a good chance to pull it off in the penalty shootout, if they just managed to score four equalizing goals. I guess it wasn't meant to be.
To my amateurish eye the Uke goal keeper seemed like the weakest of the field.
Pickford was having a weirdly bad game. Getting himself worked up over nothing.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 03, 2021, 05:21:07 PM
As a total aside I am particularly enjoying that this must be insufferable for all those bell-ends who ostentatiously announced they wouldn't be supporting England while they take a knee/heighten the contradictions :mmm: :lol:
Edit
I'd like to think so.
Alas I suspect they are denying any knowledge of having said this and are insisting it's their boys winning and Proving Engerlaaand is the best.
An England - Italy final would put me in quite the moral quandary. <_<
Re. likeability and a sort of post toxic masculinity football team - which I think just reflects the younger generation - it is crazy that England now associates a good tournament with inflatable unicorns and they're kind of a mascot :lol:
It is impossible to imagine the players even a decade ago embracing this sort of nonsense, but it's a thing since 2018.
QuoteUEFA EURO 2020
@EURO2020
Who do you want to be crowned EURO 2020 winners?
https://twitter.com/EURO2020/status/1411631996913209349
How would a similar poll look on Languish?
The standard issue bedroom poster for queer kids who like football?
(https://i.ibb.co/vjMRRqt/E5efo69-WYAQq-Ecu.png)
:lol:
The internet is having so much fun with that picture.
Also the clip of Saka falling off the unicorn.
And on queer kids who like football - I hadn't noticed but Henderson scored his first England goal wearing rainbow laces, even though it was after Pride Month so I think lots of the other rainbows have gone. He seems to wear them fairly regularly beyond just the times when it's encouraged. So despite my natural views of a Liverpool captain, I think he's probably good :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 05, 2021, 04:47:40 AM
:lol:
The internet is having so much fun with that picture.
Also the clip of Saka falling off the unicorn.
And on queer kids who like football - I hadn't noticed but Henderson scored his first England goal wearing rainbow laces, even though it was after Pride Month so I think lots of the other rainbows have gone. He seems to wear them fairly regularly beyond just the times when it's encouraged. So despite my natural views of a Liverpool captain, I think he's probably good :P
I wonder if he's a superstitious man.
Say something nice to an LGBT person on twitter=score a goal.
Incidentally any idea why he's so stand out for LGBT rights? Any gay brothers or the like or just generally being a decent guy and landed on that cause?
No idea - but he has form for this in Liverpool as well.
I think he is a decent guy. I understand he was fairly important in the players response to covid when they were being targeted by the government and acts as a bit of a shop steward for Premier League captains.
But as you say he has form on being a very visible and pretty vocal LGBT ally in the last few years, and, I have no idea, but I've also wondered if he had a personal connection like gay family or friends.
It seems that Spain is looking for local supporters towards tomorrow's game, given how fans can't travel from Spain to attend it. :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5h_8IZX0AIJsrP?format=jpg&name=medium)
:lol: We'll see. I expect Spain v Italy to have very strong Spanish and Italian support given that there's about 500k of each in the UK, a lot in London.
Ticket prices are insane but I wonder how many maybe took a gamble on getting a ticket to the semi-final on that side of the draw anyway :hmm:
The fact that Danish fans can't travel is getting some serious discussion in Denmark. Apparently several parties want the government to pressure Boris Johnson to help address the situation.
The players themselves seem to take the attitude that advantage or disadvantage it's just going to be awesome to play in front of a full stadium. So what if they're going to be supporting the other team?
Quote from: Jacob on July 05, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
The fact that Danish fans can't travel is getting some serious discussion in Denmark. Apparently several parties want the government to pressure Boris Johnson to help address the situation.
Yeah - it's really unfortunate and it seems like Denmark should be on the green list. There's a few factors that have been identified as informing the decision - the only one I suspect is causing issues with Denmark is vaccination rate.
And frankly the government chose to give in to more relaxed rules for UEFA's "football family" who can travel anywhere without quarantining. It feels a little bit symbolic of football right now that that will happen while actual fans from countries with low cases and good vaccine progress are effectively locked out :(
QuoteThe players themselves seem to take the attitude that advantage or disadvantage it's just going to be awesome to play in front of a full stadium. So what if they're going to be supporting the other team?
I think Denmark are playing with a different type of momentum - and it is going to be crazy. This whole tournament seeing fans back changes the football. And there may be a decent number of Scottish or Welsh or Irish (or any other nationality) fans who will be cheering on Denmark :lol:
For example Max Rushden had an anecdote of seeing two Germany fans in Germany shirts, with German flags on their faces after the game. He went up to sort of commiserate and be a nice guy - turned out they were both from Cork :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 05, 2021, 09:44:53 AMTicket prices are insane but I wonder how many maybe took a gamble on getting a ticket to the semi-final on that side of the draw anyway :hmm:
Yeah, in fact most of the messages to the official post are people asking for financial support to the Spanish federation to be able to attend the game, with messages like "it's like half a month's rent, mate!".
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 05, 2021, 10:41:40 AMAnd frankly the government chose to give in to more relaxed rules for UEFA's "football family" who can travel anywhere without quarantining. It feels a little bit symbolic of football right now that that will happen while actual fans from countries with low cases and good vaccine progress are effectively locked out :(
My impression of UEFA (and FIFA, and IOC ...) is they care only about about money from TV and sponsors. For both they need:
- full stadiums for the "atmosphere" (regardless of whose ass is in the seats)
- many televised matches (hence the expansion of Euro and World Cup fields)
So I always thought the reason there were so many games in Wembley was because of covid but apparently that's wrong (aside from the UK being willing to meet UEFA's conditions <_<).
The original plan was Wembley would host the semis and the final - but didn't have any group games or round of 16. They were supposed to be hosted in Brussels in a newly built stadium but in 2017 when they still didn't have planning permission Belgium and UEFA agreed the stadium probably wouldn't be finished in time (and is still not under construction - here's hoping it joins the refurbishment of the Palais de Justice as one of those weird Belgian things: the stadium that doesn't exist down the road from the refurbishment scaffolding that has been up so long it needs its own refurbishment) :lol:
Those games were then awarded to Wembley instead - it seems a bit weird that they didn't just find another stadium in Belgium because I'm sure they're good/big enough for UEFA (I think Benelux as a region have bid for the Euros before, but I might be wrong). But I think I see anything these days and my default explanation is: well, covid.
Separately great piece by Nicky Bandini on Spain-Italy:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/06/roberto-mancini-italy-plot-to-overtake-spain-after-following-in-footsteps-euro-2020
I still think Italy will win, but am getting less confident in that prediction (regularly hovering over the Languish pool picks) by the hour :ph34r:
Hey Sheilbh, here's Squires' take on inflatable unicorns. :P
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jul/06/david-squires-on-england-inflatable-unicorns-and-the-euro-2020-semi-finals (https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jul/06/david-squires-on-england-inflatable-unicorns-and-the-euro-2020-semi-finals)
Now after laughing a bit, here's the FT throwing shade at Southgate and the England team for its wokeness.
QuoteCan Gareth Southgate deliver both victory and progressive patriotism?
The England football manager is in a powerful political position, and he knows it
The prospect that England might win a major football tournament for the first time in 55 years will transfix the country over the coming week. Over 26m people, almost half the population of England, tuned in to watch the win against Ukraine on Saturday. Hysteria is building steadily ahead of a semi-final on Wednesday and a possible final at the weekend.
For the Johnson government the symbolism of an England triumph, just six months after Brexit, would be delightful. The prime minister has so far resisted the temptation to make the connection, but some of his allies have been less restrained. After England beat Germany, Lord Moylan, a former Johnson aide, crowed: "Poor Germans, this wasn't the Brexit narrative fed them by their press, was it?"
But any effort to fit the England team into a narrative of post-Brexit national resurgence faces a significant problem. Gareth Southgate, the team's manager, seems to be playing for the other side in England's culture war.
Southgate is pretty clearly a Remainer. In a TV documentary in 2018, he spoke about the "racial undertones" that he felt surrounded the Brexit campaign. Around the same time, he argued that Brexit had divided the country between young people who identified with Europe and "want to travel the world"; and an older generation "pining for something that isn't there any more".
These low-key political interventions are not accidental. Unusually for a football coach, Southgate's preparation for Euro 2020 included writing a long essay on the nature of patriotism. The article, published earlier this month, was entitled — "Dear England".
In it, Southgate gently distanced the England team from the chauvinism of some of its supporters. Tommy Robinson, a prominent far-right activist, was arrested at an England game in Portugal last year. England fans regularly sing songs about the second world war. (I heard fans belt out "Ten German bombers" in the bars at Wembley Stadium before England games last week). Southgate noted that his own grandfather was a "fierce patriot and a proud military man who served during World War Two". He stressed his own pride in Queen and country. But he then added: "On this island, we have a desire to protect our values and traditions — as we should — but that shouldn't come at the expense of introspection and progress."
In the run-up to the tournament, the England team was booed by some of its own fans for "taking the knee" ahead of games as a protest against racial injustice. Lee Anderson, a Tory MP, claimed to be so annoyed by the gesture that he would stop watching the England team in protest. (One wonders if his resolution is wavering as England progress through the tournament?) Priti Patel, the home secretary, accused the players of indulging in gesture politics.
Southgate has not only supported his team's decision to take the knee. In his patriotism essay, he went further and argued that "it's their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice".
Even before the England team began to win games in the European championships, the significance of Southgate's stances had struck the political class. Keir Starmer, the leader of the Labour party, retweeted Southgate's essay on patriotism, adding: "This is England". Some Labour sympathisers grumbled that the England manager had managed to produce a more articulate statement of "progressive patriotism" than Starmer himself ever had.
Conservatives and Johnson supporters are less ecstatic. Some seem to believe that Southgate is becoming a tool of deep Woke — with one Tory strategist telling me that the England manager's patriotism essay was "suspiciously well-written".
If England actually win the tournament later this week, Southgate and his players will become national heroes — comfortably more popular than Boris Johnson. The England team and its manager will be in a powerful political position and have already shown a willingness to embrace their platform. Marcus Rashford, the Manchester United striker (who has so far mainly been a reserve during this tournament), led campaigns against child hunger over the past year that forced changes in government policy. Raheem Sterling, the team's star, has highlighted racism in the media. Harry Kane, the captain, wore a rainbow armband to mark pride month.
But, before anybody gets too excited about England's woke winners, a reality check is in order. There is no doubt that sporting success creates shared national memories. But its ability to effect lasting political change is more dubious. After France won the World Cup in 1998, with a multiracial side described as "Black, blanc, beur", some theorised that the country would now embrace its multiracial identity. But in subsequent years the far-right has grown in strength. When the opening ceremony for the London Olympics celebrated immigration and the NHS, the British left lauded the moment as a symbol of the country's new progressive identity. Four years later, Britain voted for Brexit.
The truth is that sport is wonderful at creating fleeting moments of euphoria. Lasting social or political change is a much bigger ask.
I wonder about that "suspiciously well-written" comment about Southgate's essay. Is it implying that it was ghostwritten? That no footballer could be eloquent enough?
Ugh. Caught my sister sharing a post from 'turning point uk' on facebook. A video of some school kids dancing to vindaloo which was apparently banned due to "AntI WOKE zealots!".
They're insidious.
More football wise today should be a good one. Not sure who I support.
Fuerza España! :pope:
Quote from: clandestino on July 06, 2021, 06:09:33 AM
Fuerza España! :pope:
Hell has frozen over! :lol:
In a different topic, I didn't realize that Italy's technical team is all made of former Sampdoria players.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5mirSUXwAIRcbl?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2021, 05:48:41 AM
Hey Sheilbh, here's Squires' take on inflatable unicorns. :P
:w00t:
QuoteNow after laughing a bit, here's the FT throwing shade at Southgate and the England team for its wokeness.
[...]
I wonder about that "suspiciously well-written" comment about Southgate's essay. Is it implying that it was ghostwritten? That no footballer could be eloquent enough?
I imagine the Southgate essay might well have been ghostwritten - it's standard for footballers (current and former) and managers to use journalists as ghostwriters. That doesn't mean much though. The thoughts will be from that persona and the best ghostwriters not only capture that but also their voice.
I'm less sure with Southgate because I think he is a fairly reflective person - though turning around that piece may have needed a journalist's help. That's fine it's a different job. But I know that Southgate authored an award winning book with a friend of his - they'd known each other since they were in the Crystal Palace academy and youth team. It followed their careers as Southgate went to the Premier League played for England etc while his friend was basically a lower league/semi-pro journeyman. Again I think it's interesting that that's how Southgate approached writing about his time as a player - it is a little bit more considered and reflective. So I don't know.
Regardless I think it's extraordinary and damning that Gareth Southgate has more successfully developed his ideas around a sort of progressive patriotism than any Labour leader in the last 15 years :lol:
I think Rachman's piece is interesting and it is useful to have a bit of a cold towel take about it. But I disagree :P
On the taking a knee - it was booed (and then applause drowned out the boos) in that pre-tournament friendly in Middlesbrough. I think part of that was shock and most fans in the stadium being respectfully silent. Since then when the players take the knee the crowd cheers immediately so the booers don't even have a chance. The only booing I've seen since was when Ukraine kicked off while the England players were taking a knee which was quickly fixed. And I think that's a good thing and reflects attitudes/conversation caused by this team - and the polls always showed most people supported them taking a knee.
I also think this is slightly different than 98 because meaning was projected onto that team to a large extent, while I think this England team is more explicitly political. This is stuff they are doing, knowing they have a platform. I lean more to the Musa Okwonga interpretation (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/05/england-team-semi-final-players-racism-inequality). Raheem Sterling more than any other player has driven the conversation around media double standards for black players - not just because he is a victim of that, but because he has called it out. Marcus Rashford has fed children and forced repeated changes to government policy (he's our Dolly Parton in terms of popularity). Jordan Henderson is doing more than the sort of encouraged/mandated LGBT stuff - he is going out and saying that football is for everyone. I don't think it is just a "black, blanc, beur" thing I think it is about the conscious choices of these players that people are supporting and is moving forward on issues - and the solidarity that the other players like Jordan Pickford or Harry Maguire are showing, and they're not exactly matcha latte sipping Islingtonians. Also as I mentioned before I think part of it is the influence of US sports and especially the NBA on footballers in the UK - I think they are far more willing to be political athletes/athlete-activists than previous generations.
Now I don't think this means we're going to end up with a socialist utopia in 30 years time, but the players all seem to be pushing causes and saying stuff that I agree with and people I know would say. I think they are generally pretty representative of England under 35. Those players and their attitudes, I think, look a lot more like the future of this country - the reason it's alien is because it's different than I think what England over 35 looks like in general. I think where they matter as a team is that they sort of provide the link because the rest of the country likes them - and frankly I think this younger generation are either enabling older footballers to talk more about their views or consciousness raising them - Ian Wright calls out racism that young black players face in the media, Lineker calling out similar double standards, Rio Ferdinand playing with an LGBT team in a trans-flag coloured kit, even Graeme Souness going to Brighton Pride and saying he had an amazing time and he regrets how homophobic he was as a young man.
Obviously there's a limit to the role of culture in shifting politics (I always think of Peter Cook who said he modeled his club and satire on "those wonderful Berlin cabarets which did so much to stop the rise of Hitler and prevent the outbreak of the Second World War"), but I think it matters. I think sport perhaps especially matters because it's popular across class lines increasingly. I think this also goes for the role sport played in getting us here from the horrific and constant racism of the late 80s/early 90s in football, and Tebbit's "cricket test". Sometimes I think culture's just a mirror and reflects where we are (that there are fans who boo and fans who cheer, the racism of the 80s/90s stadiums), but other times it's a magnet that slightly pulls us.
Edit: Eg - just been listening to Ian Wright's podcast with Okwonga and Wright mentioned that this is the first time England's doing well and the story is a black player. It's normally been Lineker, or Shearer, or Beckham, or Owen - while this time it's Sterling and he is getting at least some of the praise he deserved.
Morata on the bench for the game, now that's something I wasn't expecting.
Quote from: The Larch on July 05, 2021, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 05, 2021, 09:44:53 AMTicket prices are insane but I wonder how many maybe took a gamble on getting a ticket to the semi-final on that side of the draw anyway :hmm:
Yeah, in fact most of the messages to the official post are people asking for financial support to the Spanish federation to be able to attend the game, with messages like "it's like half a month's rent, mate!".
So there may be something to this :hmm:
I went for a coffee earlier and was speaking to the guy who works there. He's Italian and going to the game tonight (the weather is horrendous). I don't know the details but he said there was some system for Italian citizens so he got his ticket for about £40 :hmm:
I'm scared. :(
I think the football lights will go out tonight and we won't se them lit for years. :cry:
Wait, did you jinx the wrong team, again?
No no, I sincerely and deeply root for Spain! Viva Espana!
I really really don't want to say this, but Spain is playing a pleasing football so far. :blush:
I think Italy will regret missing those chances.
There is a football god after all. Let's hope she continues to smile and give gifts.
Lovely goal :wub:
Better stay vague Threviel, just in case. :P
Oh Spain - Oyarzabal :(
It's like Spain always require one forward to suffer :weep:
I really hope Spain is involved in more goals!
Make love to me sideways, Morata of all people.
Quote from: Threviel on July 06, 2021, 03:29:27 PM
I really hope Spain is involved in more goals!
Gracias, as they say in Spain: 1-1 now thanks to not so efficient Morata. :lol:
Spains goal...what on earth was the Italian keeper doing? He dived the wrong way before the attacker even kicked it. He dived to defend an angle there's no way he'd want to shoot to, it was wide of the goal.
It's like he forgot where the goal was.
He was tricked by Morata shooting with the less obvious foot, very nicely done by Morata.
Have a game now :w00t:
It's surprising to me, either Italy plays worse or Spain has really upped their game. Spain is dominating totally and the result is almost a bit unfair.
Quote from: Threviel on July 06, 2021, 03:48:04 PM
It's surprising to me, either Italy plays worse or Spain has really upped their game. Spain is dominating totally and the result is almost a bit unfair.
I wonder if this is possibly just a consequence of Spinazzola's injury.
They seem a bit more defensive and Emerson's been good but I think I'd say until the Quarters Spinazzola was probably my favourite player of the tournament and it feels like they maybe are missing some of his runs and creativity?
Third extra time in a row, my nerves!
I said after Spain's first game, they lack a quality finisher. Yes, yes, I know they scored 5 goals in two of their games. But I still stick to that. THey could easily have put three behind Donarumma today
Spanish possession game was actually better in the first half. Would Morata have done wonders? :hmm:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 06, 2021, 03:54:12 PM
Spanish possession game was actually better in the first half. Would Morata have done wonders? :hmm:
Yes.
I think that was a big call by Enrique and I think it was wrong (especially after the Morata and ten other players line) :P
Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2021, 03:53:17 PM
Third extra time in a row, my nerves!
Already more than Portugal in 2016 (twice only). :hug:
Penalty shootout!
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 06, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
Penalty shootout!
:(
They shouldn't be allowed from the QF onwards.
Perfect outcome for England or Denmark really. All its missing is a gazza '90 moment.
Yikes!
24 h more rest does not compensate. :(
Goddamn the Italians seem nice and friendly.
That Simon dude is a great goalie.
Quote from: Threviel on July 06, 2021, 04:37:27 PM
That Simon dude is a great goalie.
The Italian is not so bad either.
Morata rights his earlier misdeed! There is a future for football!
Edit: Almost feels bad for Spain, they were the better team today.
Second penalty shootout fatal again.
Obligatory Spanish Civil War joke.
Quote from: Tyr on July 06, 2021, 04:30:55 PM
Perfect outcome for England or Denmark really. All its missing is a gazza '90 moment.
Spain would have been an easier opponent for England I think.
Well... we were bound to run out of luck at some point, but I think we can be very proud of the team's performance in the tournament, if we were told before the start of the Euros that we'd reach the semis we'd have taken it blindly.
Celebrations for Spinazzola which is nice :)
God I love/hate penalties.
QuoteSpain would have been an easier opponent for England I think.
I wouldn't write off Denmark.
But I still think it's Italy's tournament :ph34r:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 06, 2021, 04:47:30 PM
Celebrations for Spinazzola which is nice :)
God I love/hate penalties.
QuoteSpain would have been an easier opponent for England I think.
But I still think it's Italy's tournament :ph34r:
Still trying to get deported to the continent or what? :D
I kind of want to see Denmark go through. Feel good team of the tournament.
Pulling for the Danes tomorrow because the English will be insufferable if they win it all at Wembley.
"IT CAME HOME IM COMINNGGGGGG"
A Danish Italian final is preferred.
As an aside, it must be a lot of fun to play on a team with a character like Chiellini.
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 06, 2021, 05:21:31 PM
Pulling for the Danes tomorrow because the English will be insufferable if they win it all at Wembley.
"IT CAME HOME IM COMINNGGGGGG"
:lol: I can safely say the English will be insufferable if they win it (or the World Cup) anywhere.
QuoteAs an aside, it must be a lot of fun to play on a team with a character like Chiellini.
I love Chiellini - but totally agreed with Carl Anka's line: "Imagine Giorgio Chiellini being your friend? Seems like it'd be fun, in between all the playful headlocks."
The trend of the English inventing or popularizing sports across the world and then never winning must continue because it's funny.
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 06, 2021, 05:21:31 PM
Pulling for the Danes tomorrow because the English will be insufferable if they win it all at Wembley.
"IT CAME HOME IM COMINNGGGGGG"
You don't live in England though. Why do you care how insufferable people thousands of miles away are? :P
The BBC commentators are incredibly biased when it England is playing, it's barely watchable as a neutral. ITV's been much better IMO.
You guys know which broadcast will show the game tomorrow?
I'm watching on TSN sports (but I paid for a month's subscription to watch).
Quote from: Zoupa on July 07, 2021, 01:04:34 AM
The BBC commentators are incredibly biased when it England is playing, it's barely watchable as a neutral. ITV's been much better IMO.
You guys know which broadcast will show the game tomorrow?
ITV. The BBC had the England quarter final.
Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2021, 04:46:12 PM
Well... we were bound to run out of luck at some point, but I think we can be very proud of the team's performance in the tournament, if we were told before the start of the Euros that we'd reach the semis we'd have taken it blindly.
I could have written the exact same post, but about Italy.
Good game Spain, if only Olmo and Oyarzabal were only a bit real
nueves the match would have gone in a completely different direction.
L.
I'll pray that Fati recovers from his knee issues and gives us more bite going forward. Otherwise, a very nice tournament for us.
Quote from: Tamas on July 06, 2021, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 06, 2021, 04:30:55 PM
Perfect outcome for England or Denmark really. All its missing is a gazza '90 moment.
Spain would have been an easier opponent for England I think.
Perhaps. But I was thinking more just on it being a tough game that went to penalties.
Hopefully if tonight is settled in normal time it can offset the extra day of rest factor a little.
Quote from: Pedrito on July 07, 2021, 02:14:24 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 06, 2021, 04:46:12 PM
Well... we were bound to run out of luck at some point, but I think we can be very proud of the team's performance in the tournament, if we were told before the start of the Euros that we'd reach the semis we'd have taken it blindly.
I could have written the exact same post, but about Italy.
Good game Spain, if only Olmo and Oyarzabal were only a bit real nueves the match would have gone in a completely different direction.
L.
Thing is, neither of them are strikers, they're both wingers that can cut inside, so their lack of "clinicality" can be understandable to a point. Apparently the reasoning for benching Morata and starting three super mobile forwards (Olmo, Oyarzabal and Ferrán Torres) was making them move all over the front in order to stretch and make the Italian defence break. It was thought that starting Morata would play right into Chielini & Bonucci's gameplan, as they'd happily take him on time and time again, while the other guys would make them move much more putting their focus and cohesion in jeopardy. The lack of a pure striker after Villa and Torres retired has been Spain's weaker point for years already, for some reason we don't produce them that often.
In any case the results here bode well for Spain's chances in the World Cup and the coming years, as the squad is rather young, and even the veterans are not that old (Busquets is the oldest and is about to turn 33, and then it's Alba at 32), and new youngsters coming down the pipeline could join the team soon, mostly Ansu Fati when he recovers from his injury, he can be a key player for the future, although he's yet another winger that cuts inside rather than a striker.
Btw, just saw that there's no game for the 3rd spot. Funny thing that...
Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2021, 03:44:50 AM
Btw, just saw that there's no game for the 3rd spot. Funny thing that...
I think UEFA or FIFA (maybe both?) ditched the idea since it seems no one cared about it, not even the teams playing it. Good riddance!
Quote from: clandestino on July 07, 2021, 03:49:14 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2021, 03:44:50 AM
Btw, just saw that there's no game for the 3rd spot. Funny thing that...
I think UEFA or FIFA (maybe both?) ditched the idea since it seems no one cared about it, not even the teams playing it. Good riddance!
It seems to not be a thing at the Euros, last time it was played was in 1980. Not at the World Cup, though, in which it is still always played.
Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2021, 03:44:50 AM
Btw, just saw that there's no game for the 3rd spot. Funny thing that...
Good. Those games are always pointless.
Quote from: Zoupa on July 07, 2021, 01:04:34 AM
The BBC commentators are incredibly biased when it England is playing, it's barely watchable as a neutral. ITV's been much better IMO.
Agreed and I've seen a few pieces in the press about this here too. Lots of people saying ITV have been the better broadcaster this tournament - which is rare. Although there is the weird ITV curse - in tournament games England have won 70% that are broadcast on BBC, but only 17% of those on ITV :ph34r:
I don't necessarily mind the excitement - though I wish there was a more cold-water-pouring figure than Jurgen Klinsmann to go with Shearer and Ferdinand as pundits. I think ITV normally have at least one of Roy Keane or Graeme Souness. The thing that really annoys me is that the BBC almost stop covering other games. Like yesterday there was a really exciting game to discuss and they cut to a mini-interview with Luke Shaw (and I get it - they won't actually be covering the the England game). But it feels like ITV do that less - they're a bit better at discussing the actual game in front of them and the games in the rest of the tournament.
Also ITV have had Emma Hayes who has been excellent or Ally McCoist who is always a delight. We had Spain-Italy last night with Danny Murphy as co-commentator and he said it was the most he's enjoyed a game of football in years which you couldn't have guessed :lol: :bleeding:
QuoteBtw, just saw that there's no game for the 3rd spot. Funny thing that...
Also no golden glove in the Euros which I didn't know but feels a shame - I like things that recognise goalkeepers :blush:
The BBC commentators and co-commentators have been abysmal. Danny Murphy wasn't too bad yesterday but the likes of Robbie Savage and Chris Waddle make me want to turn the sound off. Agree Ally McCoist is great.
During Switzerland-France my GF was pretty annoyed that the commentators seemed to be overly favouring France.
I guess this was due to France having a lot more familiar players about which the commentators knew things to say.
QuoteAlso no golden glove in the Euros which I didn't know but feels a shame - I like things that recognise goalkeepers :blush:
No third place I get. Who really pays attention to that? At the last WC I think everyone was just through and wanted to go home. Having two third places seems fine to me.
But no golden glove is bizzare.
Quote from: Tyr on July 07, 2021, 08:28:30 AM
During Switzerland-France my GF was pretty annoyed that the commentators seemed to be overly favouring France.
I guess this was due to France having a lot more familiar players about which the commentators knew things to say.
Yeah - they were the favourites and had a lot more famous players and narrative I suppose? :hmm:
QuoteToday is the day.
Come on England! 🏴 https://t.co/x4lhG92mrp
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1412684618143342595?s=19
BoJo given the #10 for tonight. Bold move by Southgate have to say.
Thanks, I hate it.
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 07, 2021, 08:47:55 AM
QuoteToday is the day.
Come on England! 🏴 https://t.co/x4lhG92mrp
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1412684618143342595?s=19
BoJo given the #10 for tonight. Bold move by Southgate have to say.
Denmark won't know how to play against a false 10.
:lol:
Quote from: Gups on July 07, 2021, 08:16:52 AM
The BBC commentators and co-commentators have been abysmal. Danny Murphy wasn't too bad yesterday but the likes of Robbie Savage and Chris Waddle make me want to turn the sound off. Agree Ally McCoist is great.
Oh my, Chris Waddle... Does he still sport a mullet, as during his Olympitre years?
(https://i.redd.it/rcexhv2gpq971.jpg)
:lol:
Excellent
Always amazes me people can put such effort into things at such short notice for one off events.
Today I root for a red and white victory!
Quote from: Threviel on July 07, 2021, 11:39:35 AM
Today I root for a red and white victory!
Please keep it quiet until after the match.
Not for Tamas but loved the listener on a podcast that the hosts were finding loads of words to explain how likeable they find the English team when all they needed to say is: "John Terry isn't in the team and it's a good thing" :lol:
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2021, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 07, 2021, 11:39:35 AM
Today I root for a red and white victory!
Please keep it quiet until after the match.
Ahh, yes, I seem to have jinxed Spain yesterday. Woe betide me!
Today I think this new-fangled cynical and realistic England will win, but I have no real favourite. My wife has stocked up the campervan with Gammel Dansk and Tuborg though, so I know who she supports.
Quote from: Threviel on July 07, 2021, 12:26:48 PM
Ahh, yes, I seem to have jinxed Spain yesterday. Woe betide me!
Today I think this new-fangled cynical and realistic England will win, but I have no real favourite. My wife has stocked up the campervan with Gammel Dansk and Tuborg though, so I know who she supports.
:cheers:
he's just playing the fool. isn't he winning the pool?
it rhymes, so it must be true.
Hey! Besides my irrational hatred of Spain I haven't said much foolish shit.
I'm watching on TSN, and they seem to be in the tank for England in their pre-game coverage.
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2021, 01:47:56 PM
I'm watching on TSN, and they seem to be in the tank for England in their pre-game coverage.
IIRC, that's where the usual soccer analysts are from.
It's the fist time I've seen a little remote controlled car delivering the ball :D
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
It's the fist time I've seen a little remote controlled car delivering the ball :D
:lol:
Only happens every game of this tournament.
Threviel
Keep quiet, Denmark just scored a nice freekick goal.
My wife toasted with the Gammel Dansk, but I stoichally refused.
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
It's the fist time I've seen a little remote controlled car delivering the ball :D
It's a gimmick for the tournament because Volkswagen is one of the sponsors. You can follow it on Twitter (https://twitter.com/TinyFootballCar (https://twitter.com/TinyFootballCar)). :lol:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2021, 02:32:31 PM
:lol:
Only happens every game of this tournament.
First time I started watching from the beginning, I guess. The price of watching while I'm working.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 07, 2021, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2021, 01:47:56 PM
I'm watching on TSN, and they seem to be in the tank for England in their pre-game coverage.
IIRC, that's where the usual soccer analysts are from.
Actually one's a Scot, the other an Irish dude :P
Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2021, 02:43:19 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
It's the fist time I've seen a little remote controlled car delivering the ball :D
It's a gimmick for the tournament because Volkswagen is one of the sponsors. You can follow it on Twitter (https://twitter.com/TinyFootballCar (https://twitter.com/TinyFootballCar)). :lol:
I thought it was because covid :lol:
I had totally never noticed that. Itv always has ads before kickoff and on bbc they're usually talking till the last moment.
Money well spent VW
Is it common for a ref to tell VAR to fuck off before even seeing what he possibly missed?
Not liking this very much right now.
Quote from: DGuller on July 07, 2021, 03:32:19 PM
Is it common for a ref to tell VAR to fuck off before even seeing what he possibly missed?
Yeah, happens alot when the ref feels he saw exactly what happened and that he doesn't need help.
Quote from: Threviel on July 07, 2021, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 07, 2021, 03:32:19 PM
Is it common for a ref to tell VAR to fuck off before even seeing what he possibly missed?
Yeah, happens alot when the ref feels he saw exactly what happened and that he doesn't need help.
Seems strange to me. If someone's on my ear hinting to me that I missed something, I'd rather question myself than make a bad call that decides the game. I imagine the VAR crew wouldn't be heard from unless they really see things otherwise. That no-call on the penalty was a bad call, wasn't it?
Perhaps. Bad ref calls is a part of the game that I want to keep, up to a point.
Unless the ref saw that by letter of the law it was barely a penalty, but didn't want to decide a game on a very marginal penalty, so it's easier to no-call when you don't see the replay three times.
Refereeing is not a exact science, some leeway for the ref is necessary and good.
But often the rules are relatively complex, what might seem like a penalty might no be because of details in the rules. Accidental hands is a penalty, unless the player is falling and the hand is used to catch the fall for example.
Accidental hand penalty seems to be the one downside of VAR to me. The punishment seems way too harsh compared to the offense, and VAR makes the enforcement of that bad rule overly effective.
Feel bad for that English player that fell head first into a can of white paint.
Ehhh don't know about the call. Let's see the replay
Not liking this.
Yeah, England has this.
oh my god it's coming home :Embarrass:
One thing to remember with VAR in this competition is that if VAR can corraborate the ref it will not go against him.
And fuck. :bowler:
It feels cheap to be allowed to score on the rebound. The penalty kick itself is usually a disproportionate enough punishment, having a second shot an empty goal is too much.
I hadn't noticed just how many subs they're allowed this tournament. Madness.
The kane penalty shout earlier was 50-50 and went Denmarks way so only fair this one goes England's way.
Not sure about the penalty but it's done. Danes were logically waiting for the shootout.
Quote from: Tyr on July 07, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
I hadn't noticed just how many subs they're allowed this tournament. Madness.
The kane penalty shout earlier was 50-50 and went Denmarks way so only fair this one goes England's way.
One more substitution allowed during extra time.
England in the final....this is intolerable.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 07, 2021, 04:15:28 PM
Not sure about the penalty but it's done. Danes were logically waiting for the shootout.
Agreed on both counts.
It is really weird seeing all these English people unironically joyful.
Seeing some of the fans does remind me why England are hate worthy.
Just remember the team....
Quote from: Tyr on July 07, 2021, 04:21:41 PM
Seeing some of the fans does remind me why England are hate worthy.
Well I mean they are English people. You live amongst them, you should need no reminders :P
Some nice English tiki-taka for Threviel. :P
Bah
Forza Italia!
Well played England.
I cannot believe it. First they beat Germany, now this.
Lots of hung over people coming into work late in England tomorrow.
We are all Italians now
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 07, 2021, 04:38:29 PM
We are all Italians now
Unfortunate but true. England played better, and deserved a win, but still the way it went down was less then ideal. Ref was the best English player of the match :P
My kid is quarter Italian.... So.... Whatever happens he's a winner.
Nice consolation for the ugly black passport.
I think Heart over Head for the next match given the "Languish Euro 2020 Pick'em" Pool already has a winner.
Besides, Head over Heart didn't work too well for me earlier. :)
Quote from: Tyr on July 07, 2021, 04:41:02 PM
My kid is quarter Italian.... So.... Whatever happens he's a winner.
Nice consolation for the ugly black passport.
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/italian-passport-shot-on-dark-wooden-table-with-copy-space-picture-id1166753143?k=6&m=1166753143&s=612x612&w=0&h=qFOwjWYogEsuvA-yCIzz3vUTUO8g7Ffmzx4upxF6n0U=)
:hmm:
Do passports come in multiple colors?
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
I cannot believe it. First they beat Germany, now this.
Lots of hung over people coming into work late in England tomorrow.
Can confirm. In a pub and there's already been old dears dancing on the bar to Three Lions :lol:
Good game, England were good. Forza Italia though!
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2021, 04:47:07 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 07, 2021, 04:41:02 PM
My kid is quarter Italian.... So.... Whatever happens he's a winner.
Nice consolation for the ugly black passport.
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/italian-passport-shot-on-dark-wooden-table-with-copy-space-picture-id1166753143?k=6&m=1166753143&s=612x612&w=0&h=7Ffmzx4upxF6n0U=)
:hmm:
Do passports come in multiple colors?
. British one. The new post brexit downgraded version.
Quote from: HVC on July 07, 2021, 04:41:02 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 07, 2021, 04:38:29 PM
We are all Italians now
Unfortunate but true. England played better, and deserved a win, but still the way it went down was less then ideal. Ref was the best English player of the match :P
Pro-English referee is so England '66. :P
Fuck Italy, firmly in third place on the fuck this place ladder behind Spain and number 1 Portugal.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 07, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
Fuck Italy, firmly in third place on the fuck this place ladder behind Spain and number 1 Portugal.
We're number 1! We're number 1!
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 07, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
Fuck Italy, firmly in third place on the fuck this place ladder behind Spain and number 1 Portugal.
My three favourite countries on earth, although not in that order. :P
Quote from: HVC on July 07, 2021, 05:01:34 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 07, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
Fuck Italy, firmly in third place on the fuck this place ladder behind Spain and number 1 Portugal.
We're number 1! We're number 1!
:yes: :yeah:
I blame Jacob, he used all his super power mana in the earlier rounds.
Quote from: The Larch on July 07, 2021, 05:06:12 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 07, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
Fuck Italy, firmly in third place on the fuck this place ladder behind Spain and number 1 Portugal.
My three favourite countries on earth, although not in that order. :P
It is an exclusively soccer related ladder.
Quote from: Tyr on July 07, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
I hadn't noticed just how many subs they're allowed this tournament. Madness.
The kane penalty shout earlier was 50-50 and went Denmarks way so only fair this one goes England's way.
Yeah - that's my take. I think the Kane one was a penalty and it didn't go our way, then that one did (but wasn't a penalty). So there was a degree of karma over it in my view :lol:
Watched that in a pub and it was great - stressful, but great. Immediately after the penalty-rebound and then at the end of the game literally everyone up for It's Coming Home - all the guys behind the bar slamming it, people dancing on the bar and on tables. Then in my area of south London a lot of cars out with England flags on their horns - it felt very continental.
Excited for the final of England v Italy because this England team seem fundamentally quite Italian, which I mean as a huge compliment. Like Age, I went with my head last time and got it wrong - so maybe England have a chance :ph34r: I think the midfield will be interesting and - much as I love Chiellini and Bonucci I feel like they've not really faced much pace this tournament so I think whoever's dealing with Sterling may have a tough night. But Italy have looked great throughout the tournament so...
Edit: Also last night and tonight have really hit home how much football's missed having fans in stadiums. I absolutely love the noises that the machines didn't replicate - like huge Spanish whistles when Italy were on the ball early on last night and similarly tonight just English booing when the Danes were passing it around :lol:
And this is a lovely video of the same with all the English fans having a Sweet Caroline sing along with the team:
https://twitter.com/itvfootball/status/1412891460643524611?s=20
Edit: I particularly love that apparently before that Saka was trying to single-handedly start an Icelandic clap :lol:
Quote from: DGuller on July 07, 2021, 04:13:55 PM
It feels cheap to be allowed to score on the rebound. The penalty kick itself is usually a disproportionate enough punishment, having a second shot an empty goal is too much.
Agree
Felt like Denmark really ran out of gas during overtime. Not sure if they were really waiting for penalties or just exhausted, probably both.
Sterling is a fucking drama queen, that was definitely not a penalty... Also Maguire or whatever his name is in defense seems like a detestable fellow.
In any case, it's not coming home sorry... I don't think England has an answer to Chiesa and Insigne.
Italy 2 England 0. Heard it here first :frog:
I've been thinking given Southgates success and some of what people are saying about him.
I wonder if this could be a good tactic for appointment of national team managers going forward.
Concentrate on getting your u21 coach right then after a few years upgrade him.
Maybe after a few years send him back to the u21s with the new u21 coach moving up.
Quote from: Tyr on July 08, 2021, 01:45:20 AM
I've been thinking given Southgates success and some of what people are saying about him.
I wonder if this could be a good tactic for appointment of national team managers going forward.
Concentrate on getting your u21 coach right then after a few years upgrade him.
Maybe after a few years send him back to the u21s with the new u21 coach moving up.
He has definitely done well with England, but I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that just like in the last WC, England haven't faced another serious contender yet, except perhaps Germany.
If Italy drop their guard and think they have already won then England have a chance, otherwise not really.
Croatia were WC finalists and Denmark have a good team at the moment. England has had an easier draw than others for sure but I wouldn't say its been a walkover.
Getting to the final itself is better than other managers have been able to accomplish.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 07, 2021, 06:13:19 PM
Watched that in a pub and it was great - stressful, but great. Immediately after the penalty-rebound and then at the end of the game literally everyone up for It's Coming Home - all the guys behind the bar slamming it, people dancing on the bar and on tables. Then in my area of south London a lot of cars out with England flags on their horns - it felt very continental.
Oh yeah it was great hearing drunk people on the street screaming 'it's coming home' as a standalone phrase over and over again.
Quote from: garbon on July 08, 2021, 03:02:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 07, 2021, 06:13:19 PM
Watched that in a pub and it was great - stressful, but great. Immediately after the penalty-rebound and then at the end of the game literally everyone up for It's Coming Home - all the guys behind the bar slamming it, people dancing on the bar and on tables. Then in my area of south London a lot of cars out with England flags on their horns - it felt very continental.
Oh yeah it was great hearing drunk people on the street screaming 'it's coming home' as a standalone phrase over and over again.
I mean, it's silly to be so elated by struggling wins against the giants of Croatia, Denmark, and spanking the football great power of Ukraine, but surely you can bear with it one night every 50 years. :P
As much as I like our English members over here, but only the English could make me cheer for the Italians (maybe the Dutch could as well).
So... Forza Italia! :pope:
At least it seems we won't get that many English tourists this summer... it would be insufferable.
Quote from: Tamas on July 08, 2021, 03:15:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 08, 2021, 03:02:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 07, 2021, 06:13:19 PM
Watched that in a pub and it was great - stressful, but great. Immediately after the penalty-rebound and then at the end of the game literally everyone up for It's Coming Home - all the guys behind the bar slamming it, people dancing on the bar and on tables. Then in my area of south London a lot of cars out with England flags on their horns - it felt very continental.
Oh yeah it was great hearing drunk people on the street screaming 'it's coming home' as a standalone phrase over and over again.
I mean, it's silly to be so elated by struggling wins against the giants of Croatia, Denmark, and spanking the football great power of Ukraine, but surely you can bear with it one night every 50 years. :P
No, I recall the English behaving similarly during the 2018 world cup. It was worse at that time for me as I lived at the intersection of two busy roads.
Quote from: garbon on July 08, 2021, 03:02:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 07, 2021, 06:13:19 PM
Watched that in a pub and it was great - stressful, but great. Immediately after the penalty-rebound and then at the end of the game literally everyone up for It's Coming Home - all the guys behind the bar slamming it, people dancing on the bar and on tables. Then in my area of south London a lot of cars out with England flags on their horns - it felt very continental.
Oh yeah it was great hearing drunk people on the street screaming 'it's coming home' as a standalone phrase over and over again.
:lol:
When you think about it it's weird and stupid that sticks around considering the song was created for euro 96. Though I guess it is more relevant in this tournament than most since the finals are at home
Quote from: Tyr on July 08, 2021, 05:28:40 AM
When you think about it it's weird and stupid that sticks around considering the song was created for euro 96. Though I guess it is more relevant in this tournament than most since the finals are at home
The thing I kind of love is that my understanding is that until 2018 that became a mainly German team song. Because it was being sung by crowds in 1996 when Germany beat England and won the Euros, my understanding it sort of became associated with the German by German fans - I think Klinsmann liked it a lot too. But now the song's come home too.
QuoteNo, I recall the English behaving similarly during the 2018 world cup. It was worse at that time for me as I lived at the intersection of two busy roads.
I lived very close to Edgware Road when there were there was, I think, an Africa Cup of Nations semi-final between Egypt and Algeria - and I loved it but I think it was probably the loudest night I've ever experienced :lol:
QuoteI mean, it's silly to be so elated by struggling wins against the giants of Croatia, Denmark, and spanking the football great power of Ukraine, but surely you can bear with it one night every 50 years. :P
A few thoughts :P
I agree - this is the first final England have been in 55 years, it's the first in my lifetime. And 2018 was also the first World Cup semi-final since 1990 so again the first I could actually remember so there is an entire generation where this is new. I would love it if the English team were so successful that we could react with sang-froid. But we're not.
The other is I would question if those were struggling wins - Denmark to an extent because it went to extra time - but early on I wondered if Southgate had put together a tournament team. The defence is England's weak point so that's what they've shored and they defend, defend, defend, win a few cheap fouls and go through on a dodgy penalty - it is, in the best possible sense, a very Italian team (while Italy are playing smooth, attractive passing football). Watching all these games it's clear that England are set up to defend and sneak a goal - so are those struggling wins or what Southgate has sent his team out to do?
QuoteCroatia were WC finalists and Denmark have a good team at the moment. England has had an easier draw than others for sure but I wouldn't say its been a walkover.
Getting to the final itself is better than other managers have been able to accomplish.
Yeah - agreed. And ultimately you can only play what's in front of you. And it shows the folly of trying to play the group because I remember people talking about whether it would be better for England to come second in the group and avoid Germany/France/Portugal and probably play Sweden. But obviously that's not how it worked out as Sweden won their group so Croatia ended up facing Spain instead.
(https://us.v-cdn.net/5000498/uploads/editor/ui/y273qbml1016.jpeg)
(https://us.v-cdn.net/5000498/uploads/editor/aq/jybkorhiei9o.jpeg)
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 08, 2021, 05:21:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 08, 2021, 03:02:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 07, 2021, 06:13:19 PM
Watched that in a pub and it was great - stressful, but great. Immediately after the penalty-rebound and then at the end of the game literally everyone up for It's Coming Home - all the guys behind the bar slamming it, people dancing on the bar and on tables. Then in my area of south London a lot of cars out with England flags on their horns - it felt very continental.
Oh yeah it was great hearing drunk people on the street screaming 'it's coming home' as a standalone phrase over and over again.
:lol:
As my revenge (?), I've taken to getting my husband's attention several times today to let him that
it's coming home". ^_^
Quote from: Gups on July 08, 2021, 05:57:40 AM
(https://us.v-cdn.net/5000498/uploads/editor/ui/y273qbml1016.jpeg)
(https://us.v-cdn.net/5000498/uploads/editor/aq/jybkorhiei9o.jpeg)
:lol:
Why is Kane "The Jammy"?
Quote from: Tyr on July 08, 2021, 05:28:40 AM
When you think about it it's weird and stupid that sticks around considering the song was created for euro 96. Though I guess it is more relevant in this tournament than most since the finals are at home
Nothing weird or stupid about it at all. It's a good song about football that people like singing (I'm bored of it personally). It's getting supplanted by Sweet Caroline now which is better I think even though it has nothing to do with football or England.
Quote from: The Larch on July 08, 2021, 06:10:16 AM
Why is Kane "The Jammy"?
Having his poor penalty kick deflected straight back to him, I guess
Quote from: Gups on July 08, 2021, 06:11:40 AM
Nothing weird or stupid about it at all. It's a good song about football that people like singing (I'm bored of it personally). It's getting supplanted by Sweet Caroline now which is better I think even though it has nothing to do with football or England.
Yeah Sweet Caroline is the new song and it is better - although I really enjoy the footage of it in Wembley when no-one knows the verses or what to do during them :lol:
Growing up in Malta, you were either an England fan or an Italy fan.
Supporting the Maltese national team was a bit of a waste of time, so everyone either sided with our colonial oppressors, England; or our neighbours Italy.
In grade school you made friends based on this criteria alone.
First thing you would ask a new kid in school. "Italy or England?"
His answer went a long way towards how close a friend he would be for the rest of your life.
In my own family, my older brother Adrian is an Italy fan, as is my dad. Me and my younger brother are England fans.
Sunday will be fun.
I was on a work call today with a bunch of Welshmen. You can imagine. :lol:
Quote from: Tamas on July 08, 2021, 06:56:23 AM
I was on a work call today with a bunch of Welshmen. You can imagine. :lol:
:lol:
Out of interest with other nations - how much did the 12 month delay change/shape your squad? I'm imagining quite a lot for Spain given their youth and possibly for Italy too and it's had a big impact with England (Saka, Grealish, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Foden for example probably wouldn't have made the team this time last year) - but I was wondering who else in your team wouldn't have been in the tournament if it happened when it was meant to?
My sister lives in Wales. She's working as a teaching assistant in a primary school.
Apparently she promised the kids that she'd buy them all chocolate if England got to the final.
Woops. :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 08, 2021, 08:24:53 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 08, 2021, 06:56:23 AM
I was on a work call today with a bunch of Welshmen. You can imagine. :lol:
:lol:
Out of interest with other nations - how much did the 12 month delay change/shape your squad? I'm imagining quite a lot for Spain given their youth and possibly for Italy too and it's had a big impact with England (Saka, Grealish, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Foden for example probably wouldn't have made the team this time last year) - but I was wondering who else in your team wouldn't have been in the tournament if it happened when it was meant to?
We'd definitely have more "old guard" players around for sure, Ramos certainly, and some of the youngsters would be out as well, first of all Pedri, who was still a 17 y.o. playing in the 2nd division last year. I'd also possibly have more Real Madrid players, as they were the champions that year, so maybe players like Carvajal, Isco or Lucas Vázquez would be in. Maybe Cazorla could have been part of the team as well, as that was his last season at the top, and he even came back to the national team.
Doing some very quick calculations, I'd say it'd go like this:
Foreseeably in: Ramos, Kepa (or some other keeper), Carvajal, Isco, Cazorla, Lucas Vázquez,
Foreseeably out: Pedri, Robert Sánchez, Eric García, Laporte? (with Ramos in the squad his naturalization would not have been so urgent, I guess), Marcos Llorente, Ferrán Torres, Adama Traoré.
God that would be such a shame! He has been wonderful :o
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 08, 2021, 08:47:20 AM
God that would be such a shame! He has been wonderful :o
I assume you mean Pedri, right?
Yeah, sorry :blush:
I feel like Torres would also have been a big miss.
Pedri is about the only thing I look forward to about Barça.
Also Fati if his knee isn't fucked.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 08, 2021, 09:08:36 AM
Yeah, sorry :blush:
I feel like Torres would also have been a big miss.
Torres was still an U-21 player back then, and still at Valencia. He could have been called up, but it'd have been quite a surprise. It was his move to City what sped up his call up to the senior team.
Reports of spitting at Danish fans at Wembley, including at children. Also someone aimed a green laser pointer at Schmeichel during the match, including during the penalty kick.
Poor show.
Quote from: Jacob on July 08, 2021, 11:37:47 AM
Reports of spitting at Danish fans at Wembley, including at children. Also someone aimed a green laser pointer at Schmeichel during the match.
Poor show.
That's grim :(
I knew UEFA had launched an investigation into the laser. But hopefully - especially in a modern stadium - they can find whoever does it and ban them for life very publicly and make it clear it won't be tolerated and they should do one if that's how they understand "supporting" a team.
Edit: And I saw the laser thing because it was visible in the ITV replay - I don't know if they were talking about it because I was in a pub, but you could see it.
The laser thing was mentioned by commentators on French TV as well, even before the shootout.
Quote from: Jacob on July 08, 2021, 11:37:47 AM
Reports of spitting at Danish fans at Wembley, including at children. Also someone aimed a green laser pointer at Schmeichel during the match, including during the penalty kick.
Poor show.
That these cunts exist is known.
But how the hell are they the ones getting the tickets.
Britain has always had its dick heads but I really fear this isn't the traditional hooligan rabble and is something different.
Really reminds me of the story of when they were filming the new dads army episodes a few years ago. There were some cultists in the audience who were getting much too into it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7267985/Dads-Army-bosses-ordered-fans-stop-cheering-time-Corporal-Jones-shouts-catchphrase.html
Quote from: Tyr on July 08, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
That these cunts exist is known.
But how the hell are they the ones getting the tickets.
So when the first pre-tournament friendly happened in Middlesbrough and there was booing at taking the knee I saw some speculation online that maybe it was the North-East etc etc - but I saw one journalist who was there who said that wasn't true and the worst booers were from the "Club England" folks who are signed up to the official FA England supporters club, buy lots of tickets always turn up etc. And I suspect they may be the worst offenders for a lot of this (I don't trust anyone who loves football but doesn't have a club and only really "supports" England) - and that might be why the FA doesn't properly crack down on stadiums.
Edit:
Also on this:
QuoteBritain has always had its dick heads but I really fear this isn't the traditional hooligan rabble and is something different.
I listened to a podcast which made me think about this a lot. They were talking specifically about booing the German anthem.
One of the journalists did say that he'd covered Albania-Serbia in Albania and the anthems were not listened to respectfully and the final of Copa America will be Argentina-Brazil and if the crowds were in the stadium the anthems would be getting a lot of abuse. But - and this hit home because it's true of me - the temptation would be to describe that as atmosphere. And I think there is a strange element that is true of English fans like me - possibly Americans and others too - of romanticising quite dodgy sides of football perhaps because we are removed from it so can enjoy as a tourist, perhaps literally going to some of the spicier Italian derbies for example. It also makes me think I have more sympathy for England fans booing the German anthem or the Scottish anthem (and Scottish fans booed God Save the Queen too) because there is a rivalry there. I find booing the Croatian or Danish anthem utterly baffling and more damning of the fans than with Scotland or Germany. And it's going to really annoy me on Sunday because the Italians have a magnificent anthem.
But he also mentioned that in Wembley when he was there the most popular England shirts were all retro and they were the Gazza 1990 kit, Euro 96 kit and the World in Motion kit. And I think in the same way that there's a romanticisation of bad things in football when it's overseas and part of "local colour" or "passion" or whatever, I think there's a nostalgia for the 80s-90s, pre-Premier League football. I've pulled up friends when we are moaning about the effect of money and commercialisation that it is important not accidentally nostalgise for the 80s and early 90s when football was exclusive, racist and violent (it's also incredibly striking if you look at pictures of football crowds in the 50s and 60s because there's so many women compared to the 70s-90s). And his thought, which I think is true, is for some young men in their twenties who weren't alive or can't remember when those strips were actually being worn by players - there's an element of cosplaying to going to an England game. They are cosplaying what they think an England fan does and how they behave - which is what some of them will have learned from their dads but for others is just a weird performance of being a cunt and shouting "No surrender" or singing "ten German bombers" (needless to say these men can't really remember the Troubles or the war either) because that's what England fans do, especially from that imagined "golden age" of pre-commercialised football which is only a golden age if you're young, white, straight, able-bodied and male.
Personally I don't mind booing the anthems over much. I mean, it's not classy unless there're extenuating reasons... but really, whatever.
I rate hostility towards fans as worse than that, especially once it becomes physical because that very quickly makes going to games something that's only open to people who don't mind a spot of bovver, and that's just not right (even if I personally do have a bit of romantic attachment to that life in various ways). I have a particularly visceral reaction to spitting (even more so in these Covid times), and - of course - this is completely beyond the pale if directed at kids
Quote from: Jacob on July 08, 2021, 04:12:04 PM
Personally I don't mind booing the anthems over much. I mean, it's not classy unless there're extenuating reasons... but really, whatever.
I rate hostility towards fans as worse than that, especially once it becomes physical because that very quickly makes going to games something that's only open to people who don't mind a spot of bovver, and that's just not right (even if I personally do have a bit of romantic attachment to that life in various ways). I have a particularly visceral reaction to spitting (even more so in these Covid times), and - of course - this is completely beyond the pale if directed at kids
The wrong team won.
Some of those wanker-fans will be insufferable it their team wins.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 08, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
So when the first pre-tournament friendly happened in Middlesbrough and there was booing at taking the knee I saw some speculation online that maybe it was the North-East etc etc - but I saw one journalist who was there who said that wasn't true and the worst booers were from the "Club England" folks who are signed up to the official FA England supporters club, buy lots of tickets always turn up etc. And I suspect they may be the worst offenders for a lot of this (I don't trust anyone who loves football but doesn't have a club and only really "supports" England) - and that might be why the FA doesn't properly crack down on stadiums.
So whats needed is a complete rewrite of how England tickets are handled.
Link this hooliganism to the club England lot and crush it.
Quote
I listened to a podcast which made me think about this a lot. They were talking specifically about booing the German anthem.
One of the journalists did say that he'd covered Albania-Serbia in Albania and the anthems were not listened to respectfully and the final of Copa America will be Argentina-Brazil and if the crowds were in the stadium the anthems would be getting a lot of abuse. But - and this hit home because it's true of me - the temptation would be to describe that as atmosphere. And I think there is a strange element that is true of English fans like me - possibly Americans and others too - of romanticising quite dodgy sides of football perhaps because we are removed from it so can enjoy as a tourist, perhaps literally going to some of the spicier Italian derbies for example. It also makes me think I have more sympathy for England fans booing the German anthem or the Scottish anthem (and Scottish fans booed God Save the Queen too) because there is a rivalry there. I find booing the Croatian or Danish anthem utterly baffling and more damning of the fans than with Scotland or Germany. And it's going to really annoy me on Sunday because the Italians have a magnificent anthem.
But he also mentioned that in Wembley when he was there the most popular England shirts were all retro and they were the Gazza 1990 kit, Euro 96 kit and the World in Motion kit. And I think in the same way that there's a romanticisation of bad things in football when it's overseas and part of "local colour" or "passion" or whatever, I think there's a nostalgia for the 80s-90s, pre-Premier League football. I've pulled up friends when we are moaning about the effect of money and commercialisation that it is important not accidentally nostalgise for the 80s and early 90s when football was exclusive, racist and violent (it's also incredibly striking if you look at pictures of football crowds in the 50s and 60s because there's so many women compared to the 70s-90s). And his thought, which I think is true, is for some young men in their twenties who weren't alive or can't remember when those strips were actually being worn by players - there's an element of cosplaying to going to an England game. They are cosplaying what they think an England fan does and how they behave - which is what some of them will have learned from their dads but for others is just a weird performance of being a cunt and shouting "No surrender" or singing "ten German bombers" (needless to say these men can't really remember the Troubles or the war either) because that's what England fans do, especially from that imagined "golden age" of pre-commercialised football which is only a golden age if you're young, white, straight, able-bodied and male.
Interesting theory.
Certainly I remember when I was a teenager or there abouts the huge trend for football hooligan films kicked off. Proper productions with decent actors at first and to this day still being made albeit lesser.
I can really see how some might be sucked into this. Though I'm not so sure about it all being performance, I think being heavily influenced by this stuff will have a natural overlap with heavy influence elsewhere. I just can't see many normal progressive 30 year olds shouting shit about the Nazis when England play Germany then going to the pub with their pan-European friends and moaning about the far right.
In other "Maybe its best if we don't win...wait no...won't Italian restaurants be fire bombed?" news:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/england-euro-2020-denmark-fan-hit-b944865.html
QuoteA
Danish family were left horrified after a mob of England fans stormed their bus on the way home from Wembley after the Euro semi-final.
A 9-year-old boy was forced to flee to the top deck as his father was confronted and punched in the stomach by an England fan, after a group of 40 spotted their shirts through the windows.
Eva Greene, 43, has urged police to give Italian fans protection for the Euro 2020 final on Sunday night after her family were singled out by some "drunk and aggressive" fans miles from the stadium.
She described the "electric" feeling when Denmark went 1-0 up and even though her nation lost said they had a good night chatting to other "lovely" England fans in Wembley Stadium.
But on the final leg of their journey to their Dulwich home she spotted a large group of jubilant England fans jumping all over a truck in front of their bus.
She told The Standard: "We were sitting with a sleeping child when a crowd of people spotted our Danish T-shirts through the windows.
"They started banging on the windows and the doors, screaming and yelling.
"They started filming us, it was uncomfortable and weird because we hadn't engaged with them - we just wanted to go home."
The bus driver allegedly opened the doors which allowed England fans to get on the bus with the American father Lane trying to stop them in the corridor.
"At this point I became aware my son was getting afraid, and he went up the stairs. I went after him," Eva said.
"When my back was turned, one guy leapt up and punched my husband in the stomach. A lovely passenger who tried to help us was slapped in the face."
She angrily confronted the group and told them she just wanted to get her son home but she said the "vast majority" kept screaming and banging at the windows where he was sitting.
The bus eventually pulled off as fans continued to yell abuse and make "jerk-off hand signals" at the family, she said.
She continued: "We're just a family. We just wanted to support our team. I don't understand - why wasn't winning enough?
"My husband, who is actually American, was really angry, he told them they should be ashamed of themselves, that they were disgracing the English team. England's team deserve better fans."
The digital communications officer at a prestigious law firm said her son Henry had grown concerned for repercussions on Italy fans if England lose on Sunday.
"We're hoping to persuade our kid to root for England on Sunday. One night of idiocy won't undo 6 years of lovely friends and neighbours.
"I hope the police will put precautions in place for Sunday, outside of Wembley.
"As Henry said 'Who's warning the Italian kids?'"
A Met spokesman said they were investigating an allegation of an assault on Lordship Lane, East Dulwich on Wednesday July 7 at around 11.50pm.
"A passenger on a bus is alleged to have been punched by a man who was part of a crowd of people blocking the road.
"The victim did not sustain any lasting injuries and did not require hospital treatment.
"The incident was reported to police online in the early hours of Thursday, 8 July."
The force added there was no record of a second assault and the confrontation happened in the doorway of a bus.
Italians are a lot more common and recognisable than Danes in the UK at large too.... Really bodes well for the lone Italian in shitholes like Middlesbrough.
I'm reading plenty of snark on Twitter by non English fans and journalists about some English journos calling Sterling's performance in the penalty "street-wise" and "savvy" and how it is proof that England have learned from past experiences when this played against them. Has any of you read about this?
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:20:55 AM
I'm reading plenty of snark on Twitter by non English fans and journalists about some English journos calling Sterling's performance in the penalty "street-wise" and "savvy" and how it is proof that England have learned from past experiences when this played against them. Has any of you read about this?
I've no idea what you're referring to honestly.
Most of the journalism I've seen has the focus on Southgate, how he has fostered a club atmosphere in the national team, even those who aren't playing have a role, etc...
Sterling is said to be performing very well but mostly I just hear about his pace and work rate.
Quote from: Tyr on July 09, 2021, 05:26:04 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:20:55 AM
I'm reading plenty of snark on Twitter by non English fans and journalists about some English journos calling Sterling's performance in the penalty "street-wise" and "savvy" and how it is proof that England have learned from past experiences when this played against them. Has any of you read about this?
I've no idea what you're referring to honestly.
Most of the journalism I've seen has the focus on Southgate, how he has fostered a club atmosphere in the national team, even those who aren't playing have a role, etc...
Sterling is said to be performing very well but mostly I just hear about his pace and work rate.
There have been a few pieces whitewashing Sterling's theatrics in the penalty as a display of being "streetwise" and "football savvy", and how that's ok as long as England win. After ages and ages of the English press labelling any foreign player who dared to even half-dive as a cheater, that's a bit rich.
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 09, 2021, 05:26:04 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:20:55 AM
I'm reading plenty of snark on Twitter by non English fans and journalists about some English journos calling Sterling's performance in the penalty "street-wise" and "savvy" and how it is proof that England have learned from past experiences when this played against them. Has any of you read about this?
I've no idea what you're referring to honestly.
Most of the journalism I've seen has the focus on Southgate, how he has fostered a club atmosphere in the national team, even those who aren't playing have a role, etc...
Sterling is said to be performing very well but mostly I just hear about his pace and work rate.
There have been a few pieces whitewashing Sterling's theatrics in the penalty as a display of being "streetwise" and "football savvy", and how that's ok as long as England win. After ages and ages of the English press labelling any foreign player who dared to even half-dive as a cheater, that's a bit rich.
Aww c'mon. Sterling got touched in the penalty box while running at pace and he went down like absolutely every other professional footballer from every country for the last 20 years has. It's totally accepted as part of the modern game in England in domestic and international football and has been for ages. It's not 1986.
Quote from: Gups on July 09, 2021, 05:46:18 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 09, 2021, 05:26:04 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:20:55 AM
I'm reading plenty of snark on Twitter by non English fans and journalists about some English journos calling Sterling's performance in the penalty "street-wise" and "savvy" and how it is proof that England have learned from past experiences when this played against them. Has any of you read about this?
I've no idea what you're referring to honestly.
Most of the journalism I've seen has the focus on Southgate, how he has fostered a club atmosphere in the national team, even those who aren't playing have a role, etc...
Sterling is said to be performing very well but mostly I just hear about his pace and work rate.
There have been a few pieces whitewashing Sterling's theatrics in the penalty as a display of being "streetwise" and "football savvy", and how that's ok as long as England win. After ages and ages of the English press labelling any foreign player who dared to even half-dive as a cheater, that's a bit rich.
Aww c'mon. Sterling got touched in the penalty box while running at pace and he went down like absolutely every other professional footballer from every country for the last 20 years has. It's totally accepted as part of the modern game in England in domestic and international football and has been for ages. It's not 1986.
If it had been the other way around I'd bet that plenty of people over there would be screaming bloody murder about it. If this had been from almost any other country nobody would have cared, but the British press has always been really sanctimonious about this kind of things, so seeing them now in a "nothing to see here, move on" kind of attitude is pretty rich.
The attitude from the media I've seen tends to be fairly in line with mine: It was 50/50 whether it was a penalty or not, but the same was true of the earlier Kane one.
Independently we wouldn't have blamed the referee too much if it wasn't given but for two in one game to go against England would have been atrocious.
We get pissed off about diving. Not going down when there was actual contact. It'd be lovely if this wasn't necessary and I personally love it when a player tries to play on, but all too often when that happens the ref doesn't pull things back to a free kick if the play doesn't go anywhere, especially with penalties. So going down is what you have to do.
Also notable is that Sterling went down fairly naturally then turned to the ref to go "Come on! Penalty!". What really pisses people off is when people go down theatrically and roll about as if they've been shot.
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:51:57 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 09, 2021, 05:46:18 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 09, 2021, 05:26:04 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:20:55 AM
I'm reading plenty of snark on Twitter by non English fans and journalists about some English journos calling Sterling's performance in the penalty "street-wise" and "savvy" and how it is proof that England have learned from past experiences when this played against them. Has any of you read about this?
I've no idea what you're referring to honestly.
Most of the journalism I've seen has the focus on Southgate, how he has fostered a club atmosphere in the national team, even those who aren't playing have a role, etc...
Sterling is said to be performing very well but mostly I just hear about his pace and work rate.
There have been a few pieces whitewashing Sterling's theatrics in the penalty as a display of being "streetwise" and "football savvy", and how that's ok as long as England win. After ages and ages of the English press labelling any foreign player who dared to even half-dive as a cheater, that's a bit rich.
Aww c'mon. Sterling got touched in the penalty box while running at pace and he went down like absolutely every other professional footballer from every country for the last 20 years has. It's totally accepted as part of the modern game in England in domestic and international football and has been for ages. It's not 1986.
If it had been the other way around I'd bet that plenty of people over there would be screaming bloody murder about it. If this had been from almost any other country nobody would have cared, but the British press has always been really sanctimonious about this kind of things, so seeing them now in a "nothing to see here, move on" kind of attitude is pretty rich.
No there wouldn't. I mean, social media guarantees there will be a few idiots but nobody who watches football would complain, just as nobody is really complaining about the clear penalty on Kane that wasn't given.
If you think otherwise, give me a source for when England fans have been screaming bloody murder over a penalty given aganst England. Usually when we lose we go after the manager or the players. The last time we really complained about a ref was in 2010 when Lampard wasn't given a goal which went a good metre over the line and even that was muted because Germany were clearly the better side.
And how about the hypocrisy of Europeans complaining about the penalty being given when they would not have cared one way or the other if it had been the other way round and would probably have applauded?
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:30:31 AMThere have been a few pieces whitewashing Sterling's theatrics in the penalty as a display of being "streetwise" and "football savvy", and how that's ok as long as England win. After ages and ages of the English press labelling any foreign player who dared to even half-dive as a cheater, that's a bit rich.
:lol: I mean "Tom Daley" was trending after the England win on Twitter and Roy Keane was a pundit so I would be astonished if it wasn't called out on TV too. And I suppose the flipside of this is the Italian press writing about possible corruption between the UK government and UEFA and English gamesmanship. I look forward to Gazetta dello Sport condemning England's negative, defensive approach as well.
But I think there's a wider division within English football of the Graeme Souness (who has been racist about it)/Roy Keane who abhor diving etc and think it's cheating but probably celebrate quite crunching tackles that are borderline unacceptable. I'd note one is Scottish and one is Irish so I think it's a wider attitude than just England. But then you have more modern pundits/fans who don't care about diving so much but have far more of an issue with those defensive fouls.
It isn't only foreign players who are perceived as cheaters (that may just be, understandably, who press and readers in other countries notice being called a cheater). From watching the Premier League I think Sterling, Zaha, Vardy, Kane all have that sort of reputation (at least among neutral fans). I have more sympathy personally with Sterling, Vardy and Zaha because I think they're normally moving quite fast and I can believe that very little contact would knock them off case and it wouldn't take much for them to overplay it and win the foul (but they often get ignored/dismissed by referees because they have a reputation). I have less sympathy with Kane (and Kane I think statistically is the player who dives most in the Premier League).
But I think there is something to it because I think Sterling, Zaha and Vardy would all probably be seen as "streetwise" and "savvy" and "sharp" in a way that Kane wouldn't - but I'm not sure it's on nationality or even race strictly, I'm not sure what's going on. But the first three all have a reputation as "that type of player" while, despite the stats, Kane doesn't.
I think part of it is the decades old British football suspicion of flair and creative players being creative. British football for a very long time didn't produce technical flair players and when we accidentally developed one they were kind of crushed by the system - Glenn Hoddle for example who I think in any other European country would have been a star you build a team around but in England was viewed with suspicion and used very reluctantly and sparingly (but I think this does also, historically, apply to Scotland too). I think there was an association of cheating and gamesmanship with foreign players, but it also came with an association of skill and creativity and flair that didn't exist in the English game.
That has shifted in the last 20 years due to big FA investment in youth coaching with the goal of producing technical, not just athletic players - inspired by the French and Spanish FAs. I also think there's a possible accidental side effect of austerity and before that selling off playing fields to raise money for local authorities - there's a number of English players right now from bits of London especially who grew up playing cage football. So there's a hard, concrete floor, they are in an enclosed space all of which I think would make you better at technical, tight control of the ball and playing your way out of trouble all of which are not traditional English/British footballing virtues - I think Jadon Sancho described it as "in the cages, it was all about nutmegging and badding people up and taking them on". I think that's a shift in the players that we're producing and it's a positive one.
The media has been a lot less wanky and jingoistic in the last few tournies than previously. Even against Germany, the headlines were celebratory and avoided all the WW2 crap.
Quote from: Gups on July 09, 2021, 06:04:28 AM
The media has been a lot less wanky and jingoistic in the last few tournies than previously. Even against Germany, the headlines were celebratory and avoided all the WW2 crap.
Yeah agreed. It's another thing where I just think the perception of England is actually just lagging a little bit behind it.
And similarly I think Lars Sivertson made the point on the Guardian pod that part of the reason the English press and fans were so hostile to their players for doing badly in tournaments wasn't because they thought England deserved to win because they're England, it was that they performed so badly compared to what we saw every week in the Premier League (and I think there was a bit of Premier League parochialism going on). But I think that they looked at these teams with players from Chelsea, United, Liverpool etc and saw players who were incredible for their clubs, who'd won Champions Leagues and then when they put on an England shirt they couldn't pass the ball and didn't look like they knew each other.
I think part of that was probably the club divisions - I think Fergie especially really instilled in his players - and for whatever reason Southgate and the FA have managed to eliminate that when players are with the England team. There was social media post of Rashford and Sterling together in one of the recovery baths and it was all very sweet - but it is just unimaginable to think of a United player when I was growing up sort of sharing something like that with, say, a Liverpool player.
For the record, this is one of the articles being quoted (Daily Mail, in case there were any doubts :P). There are other two by the Times and the Telegraph that I can't read as they're behind a paywall.
QuoteBeing streetwise isn't something that comes easy to the English, but under Gareth Southgate the Three Lions have cottoned on... and it's now a team that revels in winning by any means necessary
England have become more streetwise during Gareth Southgate's reign
Harry Kane and Jack Grealish won countless free-kicks against Denmark
Raheem Sterling earned a decisive penalty with a theatrical crash to the ground
Gareth Southgate's side have cottoned on to what others have done for years
Getting over the line, not how, is really all that matters. The pandemonium that ensued at Wembley after the final whistle on Wednesday night is testament to that.
No one will remember Harry Kane and Jack Grealish winning countless free kicks for their team over the course of 120 minutes.
No one will remember Raheem Sterling's rather theatrical crash to the ground to win England's decisive penalty.
No one will remember England stringing together a total of 54 uninterrupted passes for a period of 2 minutes and 41 seconds deep into the extra time, visibly resisting the the urge to score a third, to see out this country's most significant victory in a football match in 55 years.
The emotional scenes of England players and staff, in unison with 52,000 jubilant supporters, singing Neil Diamond's Sweet Caroline amid crazed celebrations — everyone will remember that.
Being streetwise isn't something that necessarily comes easy to the English.
We frown upon footballers with the audacity to gain free kicks, run down the clock or, God forbid, win an unwarranted penalty under minimal contact. It's never been the English way.
But while we were turning our noses up, our rivals were winning.
Diego Maradona circa 1986. Diego Simeone circa 1998. Ricardo Carvalho, with a little help from Cristiano Ronaldo, circa 2006.
Generally, in professional sport, nice guys finish second — or in England's case in the group stages or last 16.
Times are changing, though. Thankfully, under Gareth Southgate our national team has cottoned on.
It isn't about taking the moral high ground. It's about winning — by hook or by crook.
There isn't anything wrong with that, either. Who cares how we win. Southgate certainly sees it the same way.
'Yes, I think the players have learned a lot over the last three or four years, we talked to them about that,' answered Southgate when asked whether his team had learned to become more streetwise.
'We used to talk to the Under 21s about that — it was one of the biggest areas we had to improve upon — and we still can be better at it because the first five minutes of that second half of extra-time, we had the man advantage and didn't really keep the ball well enough.
'There was opportunities to keep the ball far better than we did. But we'd worked it out and the players had worked it out, they did that really well and we have got the technicians to be able to do it.'
So it's Italy, arguably the most streetwise of them all, that stand in the way of England making history.
Get ready for histrionics, clasped hands and haranguing the officials.
Seventy-two hours from kick-off, the mind games have already started: a report in Italian publication Gazzetta Dello Sport suggests the awarding of England's match-winning penalty after Denmark defender Joakim Maehle clipped Sterling in the box was 'generous' and 'confirms the suspicions of a return of favour' to Prime Minister Boris Johnson for his role in preventing the controversial Super League threat to UEFA.
It's a truly absurd assertion, of course. The Italians won't care an iota if it somehow influences the officials on Sunday.
Masters of the dark arts — you'd imagine Giorgio Chiellini and his central defensive sidekick Leonardo Bonucci will have a trick or two up their sleeves, too.
But you finally get the impression that England are in position where they are prepared to give as good as they get in terms of gamesmanship.
'Now we have an immense challenge against a top opponent in Italy,' added Southgate. 'I was hearing they have been to 12 semi-finals, and ten finals, Italy's record is phenomenal. So we've got a huge task ahead of us but one that we'll take on with relish.'
Finally, we have a team that relishes in winning by any means necessary.
The comment section is... interesting. :lol:
Quite a different take to the less crazy-right media.
:lol: I can imagine - and I imagine there's similar in other countries (I refuse to believe that England are the only country where the media have called out Italian gamesmanship :P) we're in no position to judge as since the Hazard incident El Chiringuito goes viral on English football twitter I'd say about once a fortnight. So I get it being enjoyable to look at crazy press/football commentary :ph34r:
And I think it's fair to have a little dig about Italy - there was some ridiculous stat about the last minutes of the Belgium game when the ball was only in play for something like 9 of the last 20 minutes largely due to Italy successfully playing for set pieces and maybe feigning injury a little (see also Immobile :lol:). And I think the interpretation in the UK press of Chiellini and Alba's moment before the penalties was that it was Chiellini playing mind games - leading to people joking that we should make Grealish captain for any penalties so Chiellini can try to play mind games on a man with no mind. Out of interest - what was the Spanish take on that moment? Was it just Chiellini being a big lug or did they see it as mind games?
I also think the hypocrisy that annoys me isn't around this - I think it is fair to say, looking at Italian football in general, that they are masters of the dark arts :P It's the failure of a lot of English commentators and pundits to treat bad tackles in the same way: as cheating. They are against the rules and can be physically dangerous - and this was part of England's 66 success and is part of historic English "footballing identity". But those physical fouls are, I think, still sort of seen as more forgivable and acceptable than "cynical" fouls. Which they're not and very often they can be far worse. And the same people (Keane, Souness etc) who decry cynical fouls will celebrate physical fouls - and there is, especially from Souness, a rhetoric of one being part of our game and one not.
But I think the interesting story of England's relative success over the last two tournaments (and also the relative success of the Women's football team in recent years) is the end of English exceptionalism and the embracing of influence from other countries and traditions and the Europeanisation of English football. Part of that is the Premier League and foreign players but part of it is also the FA going to Clairefontaine to see what France was doing and, in 2012, opening their own "national football centre" for the national teams. Similarly I understand they looked at Spain and the way that apparently the Spanish FA encourages coaching of a certain type of player and did something similar for youth development - they wanted, in particular, to encourage technical players and now the team includes Foden, Mount, Sterling, Sancho, Bellingham etc who are all technically very good and have emerged from that system. Plus on Southgate specifically - he is a feature on British coverage of the Superbowl because he goes every year but he has made a big thing of speaking to coaches in other clubs/nations but also other sports like American Football, basketball, rugby etc to try and get ideas of how to do something different in football. It's all very different from the English football system in the 90s before this process really started.
I think there's something similar going on in the Scottish FA now too - again, historically very conservative, but I think they are looking at successful "small" countries like Croatia and now probably Denmark to see if there's things they can learn to improve the Scottish team. And there definitely is.
And I'd add I think it is okay to sort of celebrate cheating as part of your countries football history and for others to celebrate it - I think if it's being used to condemn I don't like it. So I think about this bit from Jonathan Wilson a lot:
QuoteThe debate was played out in the pages of El Gráfico, and a consensus emerged that Argentinian football stood in opposition to the game of the British, the quasi-colonial power having largely departed by the beginning of the first world war. On the vast grassy playing fields of the British schools, football was about power and running and energy. The Argentinian, by contrast, learned the game in the potreros, the vacant lots of the slums, on small, hard, crowded pitches where there was no teacher to step in if it got a bit too rough; their game was about being streetwise, tight, technical ability – and cunning.
If a statue was to be erected to the soul of the Argentinian game, El Gráfico's editor Borocotó wrote in 1928, it would depict "a pibe [urchin] with a dirty face, a mane of hair rebelling against the comb; with intelligent, roving, trickster and persuasive eyes and a sparkling gaze that seem to hint at a picaresque laugh that does not quite manage to form on his mouth, full of small teeth that might be worn down through eating yesterday's bread.
"His trousers are a few roughly sewn patches; his vest with Argentinian stripes, with a very low neck and with many holes eaten out by the invisible mice of use ... His knees covered with the scabs of wounds disinfected by fate; barefoot or with shoes whose holes in the toes suggest they have been made through too much shooting. His stance must be characteristic; it must seem as if he is dribbling with a rag ball."
A little under half a century later, Diego Maradona made his international debut. Even at 16, he was not just a great footballer, he was the fulfilment of the prophecy.
I don't think it's bad to say Argentina and Uruguay sort of embrace that streetwise, trickster-ish and cunning (arguably cheating) type of football - I think it's a good thing and I hope they always do it rather than all the world's football being smoothed out into the same game. A bit like I hope Sweden always play with a robust and clever 4-4-2.
Love this - think it manages to cover all bases:
https://stancross.substack.com/p/supporting-the-english
England has been cheating for a long time (1966), but also Germany (1954 or 1974 schwalbe) or France for that matter. Calling Italy master of the Dark arts is so tabloid-like.
Most teams try it, but the really big ones get away with it.
yeah, re-writing history to make England the hard done by squeaky clean underdogs is disingenuous at the very least.
I dislike the Italian team since they beat Germany in the 2006 world cup.
That said, I hope they beat England. The English fans are just too unsympathetic.
Edit: Used obnoxious first, but that's too strong.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 02:10:20 PM
England has been cheating for a long time (1966), but also Germany (1954 or 1974 schwalbe) or France for that matter. Calling Italy master of the Dark arts is so tabloid-like.
Most teams try it, but the really big ones get away with it.
If you are not trying to cheat do you really want to win though?
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 09, 2021, 01:42:39 PM
Love this - think it manages to cover all bases:
https://stancross.substack.com/p/supporting-the-english
I don't care who wins because both England and Italy are not France.
Quote from: Zanza on July 09, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
I dislike the Italian team since they beat Germany in the 2006 world cup.
That said, I hope they beat England. The English fans are just too unsympathetic.
Edit: Used obnoxious first, but that's too strong.
That's funny, that's the tournament that made me like them, they were playing very much against type and were sportsmanlike and behaved decently.
I hated Italy so much in the 2006 World Cup I wanted to headbutt them. Unfortunately I was not alone in that desire.
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 03:19:38 PM
I hated Italy so much in the 2006 World Cup I wanted to headbutt them. Unfortunately I was not alone in that desire.
:D
Quote from: Threviel on July 09, 2021, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 09, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
I dislike the Italian team since they beat Germany in the 2006 world cup.
That said, I hope they beat England. The English fans are just too unsympathetic.
Edit: Used obnoxious first, but that's too strong.
That's funny, that's the tournament that made me like them, they were playing very much against type and were sportsmanlike and behaved decently.
Yeah, I became an Italy fan then.
Oh yeah taunting Zidane until he lashes out in righteous rage, cheered on by all decent and good people, is so sportsmanlike and decent. You people just hate France.
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 02:10:20 PM
England has been cheating for a long time (1966), but also Germany (1954 or 1974 schwalbe) or France for that matter. Calling Italy master of the Dark arts is so tabloid-like.
Most teams try it, but the really big ones get away with it.
If you are not trying to cheat do you really want to win though?
Yes, just in a different way.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 03:36:37 PM
Yes, just in a different way.
The same way, just at a disadvantage. Everybody is already doing all they can to win legitimately as well.
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 03:28:53 PM
Oh yeah taunting Zidane until he lashes out in righteous rage, cheered on by all decent and good people, is so sportsmanlike and decent. You people just hate France.
Oh yeah Maluda or Thierry Henry diving (or handballing later) is so sportmanslike and decent indeed.
Who said anything about hating France? Maybe some bureau/plutocrat who claimed there was not a French culture but not me that's for sure. :P
France ≠ Les Bleus. :contract:
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 03:36:37 PM
Yes, just in a different way.
The same way, just at a disadvantage. Everybody is already doing all they can to win legitimately as well.
Nope, not the same way. Home advantage, without biased refereeing, I can accept without problem.
Though England getting to play in the mild English "summer" vs the other ones playing in the scorching continental summer is pushing it. But then, Platini is to blame for this bloody tournament formula.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 03:42:08 PM
Oh yeah Maluda or Thierry Henry diving (or handballing later) is so sportmanslike and decent indeed.
What is this whataboutism? Anyway that was just French élan on glorious display.
QuoteWho said anything about hating France? Maybe some plutocrat who claimed there was not a French culture but not me that's for sure. :P
I just couldn't figure out why else one would declare the perfidious and false 2006 Italian team as decent and sportsmanlike -_-
QuoteFrance ≠ Les Bleus. :contract:
How dare you! :ultra:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 03:44:34 PM
Nope, not the same way. Home advantage, without biased refereeing, I can accept without problem.
Though England getting to play in the mild English "summer" vs the other ones playing in the scorching continental summer is pushing it. But then, Platini is to blame for this bloody tournament formula.
Ah I see what you are talking about. Trying to understand how exactly this damn tournament works, why people are playing in Budapest and Bucharest and London and...whatever...seems to require extensive research I haven't put in yet.
Ahhh, the good old days of WC 2006. Little did the world know that the major tournaments would not have a worthy winner until WC 2014. 8 years wasted for the football world.
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 03:48:39 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 03:42:08 PM
Oh yeah Maluda or Thierry Henry diving (or handballing later) is so sportmanslike and decent indeed.
What is this whataboutism? Anyway that was just French élan on glorious display.
Not whataboutism, just a reminder of facts. Next time, don't throw stones from your glass house.
Besides, true French élan is not about eating the grass but going bravely forward. :contract: How dare you?! :lol:
QuoteWho said anything about hating France? Maybe some plutocrat who claimed there was not a French culture but not me that's for sure. :P
Quote
I just couldn't figure out why else one would declare the perfidious and false 2006 Italian team as decent and sportsmanlike -_-
Did not say so but by your own criteria "whatever it takes since otherwise it's disadvantage etc" you should love them when they do it. As for exploiting a weakness in a adversary (temper), well that's original.
QuoteFrance ≠ Les Bleus. :contract:
Quote
How dare you! :ultra:
I have to
supporter (verb in the French sense not English) dumb and ignorant French football "fans" all year long so yes I dare.
Luckily for them and fortunately for France, England has got even worse at home and abroad.
Quote from: Threviel on July 09, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
Ahhh, the good old days of WC 2006. Little did the world know that the major tournaments would not have a worthy winner until WC 2014. 8 years wasted for the football world.
I take it 2016 was fine as well for you. :P
Well, France didn't win, so that's a plus.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Not whataboutism, just a reminder of facts. Next time, don't throw stones from your glass house.
I never claimed that France was decent and sportsmanlike though :P
QuoteBesides, true French élan is not about eating the grass but going bravely forward. :contract: How dare you?! :lol:
It is eating grass pour la France!
Quote
Did not say so but by your own criteria "whatever it takes since otherwise it's disadvantage etc" you should love them when they do it. As for exploiting a weakness in a adversary (temper), well that's original.
I mean I would...but since they are not my team I hate them. Which is really the highest respect I can pay to an opponent. If I like you that only means you suck.
QuoteI have to supporter (verb in the French sense not English) dumb and ignorant French football "fans" all year long so yes I dare.
Luckily for them and fortunately for France, England has got even worse at home and abroad.
Having loads of idiotic annoying fans just means you are popular, as most people are idiotic and annoying.
Quote from: Threviel on July 09, 2021, 04:02:02 PM
Well, France didn't win, so that's a plus.
:lmfao:
Good one!
Mono disagrees however.
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 04:02:39 PM
Not whataboutism, just a reminder of facts. Next time, don't throw stones from your glass house.
Quote
I never claimed that France was decent and sportsmanlike though :P
Unlike French media and most French supporters? Stop lying (stating alternative facts is that the way you say so over there now?).
I still remember the time when French referees such as Marc Bâtard were allegedly the best as well. The latter changed however, specially after his spell at training future French referees for the Ligue des Tas Lents.
QuoteBesides, true French élan is not about eating the grass but going bravely forward. :contract: How dare you?! :lol:
Quote
It is eating grass pour la France!
There are cows in Normandy and elsewhere which are much better for that purpose.
Quote
Did not say so but by your own criteria "whatever it takes since otherwise it's disadvantage etc" you should love them when they do it. As for exploiting a weakness in a adversary (temper), well that's original.
Quote
I mean I would...but since they are not my team I hate them. Which is really the highest respect I can pay to an opponent. If I like you that only means you suck.
Yet, you like France/les Bleus. Does it mean they suck? :P
QuoteI have to supporter (verb in the French sense not English) dumb and ignorant French football "fans" all year long so yes I dare.
Luckily for them and fortunately for France, England has got even worse at home and abroad.
Quote
Having loads of idiotic annoying fans just means you are popular, as most people are idiotic and annoying.
Wrong, England has loads of idiotic and annoying fans, yet the team is not exactly popular beyond the white cliffs of Dover, the Hadrian Wall, the Wales border, you get the idea.
Look I just watch the matches, I don't know what the fuck the French media or fans are saying. My biased narrative is entirely my own.
And if I was a fan of Germany or Spain or something and I liked France then yes that would mean they suck. But since I am a fan of the USA and France it says nothing about whether or not they suck. I love them both no matter how bad or good they happen to currently be. I think that irrational position at least has some kind of perverse internal consistency to it :P
And even if I accept the notion that nobody at all outside of England likes the English team, lots of English people do. And I think recent history has shown lots of them are morons.
That's not how a worshipper of Reason, the Supreme Being, should behave, civic virtue etc. but that will do. :P
Quote from: Tyr on July 09, 2021, 05:00:41 AM
So whats needed is a complete rewrite of how England tickets are handled.
Link this hooliganism to the club England lot and crush it.
Totally agree - and this is stuff that I would expect clubs to make a deal of lifetime bans.
QuoteEngland has been cheating for a long time (1966), but also Germany (1954 or 1974 schwalbe) or France for that matter.
Yeah - that's basically my point :lol:
QuoteCalling Italy master of the Dark arts is so tabloid-like.
It's a common phrase in journalism and journalism only - like "boffin" or "growing clamour" :lol:
I think - and this could just be misremembering Damned United - but I think it comes from Don Revie's Leeds and something Brian Clough said (and in 1970s England that meant potentially career-ending tackles and violence). But it's used a fair amount for either teams that commit a lot of fouls and get away with it, or win a lot of fouls they shouldn't - but also in politics if, for example, a party is very good at spin then they'll be called masters of the dark arts.
QuoteThat said, I hope they beat England. The English fans are just too unsympathetic.
Sadly, fair :(
QuoteThough England getting to play in the mild English "summer" vs the other ones playing in the scorching continental summer is pushing it. But then, Platini is to blame for this bloody tournament formula.
Agreed on Platini - I also think travel played a big part. It's been noted here that all four of the semi-finalists were teams who played most of their group games at home.
QuoteAh I see what you are talking about. Trying to understand how exactly this damn tournament works, why people are playing in Budapest and Bucharest and London and...whatever...seems to require extensive research I haven't put in yet.
I think it is just a Platini vanity project. It seemed a bit tasteless in the general context of climate, but in covid I think it's been a really bad idea and it would have been better to basically admit defeat on the cross continent project (especially the games in Baku) and play it all in, say, Germany, Italy, England, Benelux, France or any reasonable region that could host it. And I think they could have decided that in 2020 when they postponed it so they had a chance to prepare.
Edit: And beyond the football the multi-fights around rainbows will be something I remember in this tournament - and for the final the little car will be in rainbow colours :lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E53arQ0XMAIhSP5?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2021, 06:29:01 PM
That's not how a worshipper of Reason, the Supreme Being, should behave, civic virtue etc. but that will do. :P
Indeed it is not. :lol:
I try to funnel all my irrational ancient regime superstitious bullshit into sports :P
Quote from: Zanza on July 09, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
I dislike the Italian team since they beat Germany in the 2006 world cup.
That said, I hope they beat England. The English fans are just too unsympathetic.
Edit: Used obnoxious first, but that's too strong.
They are so unsympathetic that I am indifferent as to which team wins the final.
I curse you England for making me root for Italy :(
A thought - with this tournament has the slim chance of having a major tournament in the UK again for the foreseeable future vanished?
(https://preview.redd.it/te6gnelqeca71.jpg?width=640&height=785&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f6ab54a972add4ddf93225e7a3215e754303955f)
The Catalan counterpart of The National was similarly rooting for Italy against Spain :lol:
I should probably consider switching my allegiances on the face of this.
The National really spend a lot of time on their front page photoshops :lol:
Incredible :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 09, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
Agreed on Platini - I also think travel played a big part. It's been noted here that all four of the semi-finalists were teams who played most of their group games at home.
On this, Ceferin has now said that a multiple host tournament "is far too challenging. It's not fair that some teams have to travel 10,000km while other teams travel just 1,000km."
This was pointed out when the idea was first mooted - both from a sporting and a carbon perspective :bleeding:
The English has been fined by uefa for their fans' behaviour during the semi final. The charges were using pyrotechnics, booing the national anthem of the opponents and pointing lasers at the Danish players, notably on schmeichel during the penalty kick.
Spitting on the opponent's fans is apparently okay.
Moving forward, they should institute a rule that pointing lasers at goalies during the penalty disallows any goal scored....
Quote from: Jacob on July 10, 2021, 10:37:01 AM
Moving forward, they should institute a rule that pointing lasers at goalies during the penalty disallows any goal scored....
Kind of an incentive for the defending team to do that then no?
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2021, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 10, 2021, 10:37:01 AM
Moving forward, they should institute a rule that pointing lasers at goalies during the penalty disallows any goal scored....
Kind of an incentive for the defending team to do that then no?
Yeah. I remember this a massive thing in Classico games a while back. I don't know if they are but they should be banned from stadiums and any fan with one banned too. It's like fireworks or whatever - there's no innocent reason to have that on you.
Edit: And yeah it would incentivise defending fans. I swear was some competition where if the game was called off it would be replayed and there were loads of examples of fans on the losing side trying to launch pitch invasions to get it replayed instead.
Yeah I know... :lol:
Sigh.
QuoteFlying ants could swarm Euro 2020 final at Wembley
England-Italy match may be clouded by insects after Met Office radar detects start of 'nuptial flights'
Swarms of flying ants could swarm to Wembley and cloud the Euro 2020 final, after a radar detected millions of bugs over London and the south-east on Friday.
As luck has it, the final between England and Italy is taking place on Sunday, which could fall into the mating period of ants, which go on a "nuptial flight" in huge numbers between June and September.
Although the Met Office has forecast "promising" weather for Sunday, it also picked up on the phenomenon potentially coinciding with the fixture and becoming a nuisance for buzzing players and fans.
Radar images released by the Met show a number of large pulsating shadows hovering over the capital and surrounding areas, many of which "are in fact insects", the Met said.
oh no - it's flying ant day :o :ph34r: :weep:
Edit: Also I know online isn't reality but the reaction to that National front page is kind of hilarious - unionists generally applauding it because its' quite funny and very self-aware, nationalists generally appalled with it for showing them up :lol:
The scene from Brooklyn where she says emphatically states her Italian last name has been popping up on my Twitter feed.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f44bbe62-c7b1-44b1-a869-3505202609eb
Report in Guardian about the abuse some Danish fans were facing - a common theme is lack of security/stewards and a lot of England fans in an area for Danish fans/no-one checking IDs or bags on fans going into the stadium. I really hope the FA have done stuff to fix this ahead of tomorrow. Wembley is their stadium and they should be running it properly.
I cannot believe that, for example, during the FA Cup final they were allowing mixed Arsenal/Chelsea fan areas because that's not how football games are managed in this country. At best it's incredibly negligent - and not checking people's IDs or bags is genuinely alarming.
It is absolutely insane. Its weird that you didn't see the same crap in the German game, and there you'd expect it far more. It seems after bullying the little girl things just exploded.
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2021, 03:31:24 PM
It is absolutely insane. Its weird that you didn't see the same crap in the German game, and there you'd expect it far more. It seems after bullying the little girl things just exploded.
I had two thoughts - one is there maybe were more Germans in the UK and Ireland who could buy tickets in the German fans end of the stadium? So they had fewer English fans pretending to be Germany fans to get tickets. Or maybe the FA/Wembley were just lax - they thought the Germany game would be the challenge but didn't count on England fans (as I say - what gets me is booing the Croatian national anthem :blink:) and significantly increased capacity.
As bad as it was hopefully this has woken them up and they'll be treating tomorrow like they would a club final - or even like a derby. The fact they weren't apparently checking bags is mind-blowing. I've had my bag-checked going into art galleries, restaurants, clubs but not apparently a major sporting evernt in a stadium :blink:
Croatia I kind of understand as they beat us in the wc.
Denmark though... I thought we viewed them pretty positively if at all.
Quote from: Tyr on July 10, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Croatia I kind of understand as they beat us in the wc.
Denmark though... I thought we viewed them pretty positively if at all.
I am just going to go out on a limb and suggest that there is no logic or reason to it. I seriously doubt these people were big football fans with extensive knowledge of the history of Denmark v England.
Quote from: Valmy on July 10, 2021, 08:51:06 PM
I am just going to go out on a limb and suggest that there is no logic or reason to it. I seriously doubt these people were big football fans with extensive knowledge of the history of Denmark v England.
Oh for sure - I think it's as simple as this is how they think they are expressing or showing their support for England, quite possibly for the benefit of/to show off to other fans around them. But there's no wider beef with Croatia or Denmark, or Italy for that matter (the Daily Star's already done a "what did the Italians ever do for us" front page :lol:) which is why I find that worse and weirder.
Scottish and English fans booing each others anthems makes sense, I think most of the world can and should boo the English (and Welsh and Scottish) anthems given we colonised a large chunk of it, similarly (especially with the added football content) I get why England has a rivalry with Germany (and why Germany doesn't care because England aren't normally competitors).
I don't think it really works that way. All of Latin America doesn't boo the Spanish anthem I don't think.
Sure I just meant you expect spikier behaviour because of rivalries which are normally just pure geography, history or football-based - ofr some combination of the above. None of those apply to England v Croatia or Denmark. They didn't boo Czechia but that may be because their anthem is instrumental so no-one knew when to come in rather than some deeply held respect for Czech culture after a million stag dos in Prague <_<
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/euro-2020-gareth-southgate-evokes-wartime-spirit-ahead-of-final-urging-england-fans-to-be-proud-of-an-island-our-size-12352710
Quote[...]
Southgate, 50, claimed he believed the 'Blitz spirit' was partially behind England's win against Germany earlier on in the tournament.
"People have tried to invade us and we've had the courage to hold that back," he told the paper.
"You can't hide that energy in the stadium against Germany was because of that. I never mentioned that to the players, but I know that's part of what the story was."
[...]
:bowler: Ah, finally mentioning the war again. It's only been 75 years. If the Italians win, they can refer to Emperor Claudius I guess.
Let's be having the stands belting out Bella ciao.
Quote from: Zanza on July 11, 2021, 01:28:01 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/euro-2020-gareth-southgate-evokes-wartime-spirit-ahead-of-final-urging-england-fans-to-be-proud-of-an-island-our-size-12352710
Quote[...]
Southgate, 50, claimed he believed the 'Blitz spirit' was partially behind England's win against Germany earlier on in the tournament.
"People have tried to invade us and we've had the courage to hold that back," he told the paper.
"You can't hide that energy in the stadium against Germany was because of that. I never mentioned that to the players, but I know that's part of what the story was."
[...]
:bowler: Ah, finally mentioning the war again. It's only been 75 years.
I think that interpretation from Sky seems a bit off. He said he didn't mention it to the players. But I think he's right in that observation. It's obvious that part of the energy of an England-Germany game is the war, in the same way as part of the energy of the Ireland-England game is English imperialism. I think it's the same for Germany-Netherlands, no? ("we want/we have our bicycles back" chants etc).
But it wasn't part of what Southgate said to the players - I didn't see it (or 1966) in any of the papers before the Germany game either.
QuoteIf the Italians win, they can refer to Emperor Claudius I guess.
:lol: I think at least the Daily Star is a little bit confused:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E59pbeyXMAAJlko?format=jpg&name=small)
But the most anti-Italian thing I've seen is the Star doing lots about how good pineapple on pizza is, and English people on Twitter sharing pictures of the "interpretations" of Italian food they were having for dinner last night :lol:
Now that's some hideous cultural appropriation, with a bad photoshop job to boot. :P
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 07:55:07 AM
Now that's some hideous cultural appropriation, with a bad photoshop job to boot. :P
It makes zero sense except as a pun plus photoshop :lol:
Edit:
Quote
Let's be having the stands belting out Bella ciao.
Incidentally a song about a partisan fighter is not the one I'd choose to move past the war :P
Back to what I was saying the other day, about this being the most important game in Malta.
https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/sports/football/110805/it_finally_comes_home_malta_holds_its_breath_as_italy_face_england_in_euro_final#.YOr3kxNKj64
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 07:44:57 AM
But the most anti-Italian thing I've seen is the Star doing lots about how good pineapple on pizza is, and English people on Twitter sharing pictures of the "interpretations" of Italian food they were having for dinner last night :lol:
Bit of an own goal, that.
Yeah - some are fine and things I'd cook (Lineker use the wrong type of pasta, got the wrong pasta name and the wrong type of cheese - but it looked tasty). Others are very much self-owns :lol:
My only Italian friend (outside my family) doesn't give a fuck about football but all the food heresy by the English media is triggering him intensely. :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 10:43:41 AM
My only Italian friend (outside my family) doesn't give a fuck about football but all the food heresy by the English media is triggering him intensely. :lol:
:lol: It reminds me of an Italian I follow on Twitter who pre-Italy-Spain just posted that "Spain is in all respects like Italy but slightly worse." 2000 replies later :ph34r:
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 10:43:41 AM
My only Italian friend (outside my family) doesn't give a fuck about football but all the food heresy by the English media is triggering him intensely. :lol:
The Italians-mad-at-food Instagram is having a seizure as well. :lol:
My favourite Italians take food too seriously is when an Italian cheese consortium* went after a nerdy Australian youtuber who makes cheese videos.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/11/an-aussie-youtuber-was-accused-of-making-counterfeit-cheese-by-italian-cheesemakers/
*who knew that was a thing.
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 11:37:00 AM
My favourite Italians take food too seriously is when an Italian cheese consortium* went after a nerdy Australian youtuber who makes cheese videos.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/11/an-aussie-youtuber-was-accused-of-making-counterfeit-cheese-by-italian-cheesemakers/
*who knew that was a thing.
Blessed are the cheese makers :pope:
The English are already breaking down the defense.
https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/1414268576442331143?s=20
Apparently I've been jinxing stuff so I just want to make one thing clear: Being partial to cunts really want England to win. Cross my heart and so on and so forth...
Meanwhile the wife has some Peroni in the fridge. Tomorrow I hope we can eat some carbonara with joy in our heart, kidneys are damn hard to get hold of and sad meals are sad.
Quote from: Threviel on July 11, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
Apparently I've been jinxing stuff so I just want to make one thing clear: Being partial to cunts really want England to win. Cross my heart and so on and so forth...
:lol:
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 11:37:00 AM
My favourite Italians take food too seriously is when an Italian cheese consortium* went after a nerdy Australian youtuber who makes cheese videos.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/11/an-aussie-youtuber-was-accused-of-making-counterfeit-cheese-by-italian-cheesemakers/
*who knew that was a thing.
It is not "an" Italian cheese consortium, it is "the" Italian cheese consortium, those guys handle the largest DOP cheese in the whole of Italy, Grana Padano. :lol:
Quote from: Liep on July 11, 2021, 12:48:32 PM
The English are already breaking down the defense.
https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/1414268576442331143?s=20
Yeah, I'm reading some sports journalists claiming that there's a large group of fans roaming the press area of the stadium uncontrolled.
QuoteIntrigued by the claim no ticketless fans have got inside Wembley and wondering why 30-40 lads have just rushed in one tight huddle past stewards into the seats below the press area, looking anxiously about them as they did so.
And by the bloke in the red top who took a wrong turn into the press area then panicked when a steward asked for his ticket and ran through the VIP area into the mass below the other press area.
Earlier today, in Leicester Square:
https://twitter.com/NewsForAllUK/status/1414246103407529989 (https://twitter.com/NewsForAllUK/status/1414246103407529989)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6BYGmUXoAM7xmn?format=jpg&name=small)
Aaah, English hooliganism, it's been a while...
I watched his video a while back, he was really clear that it was not a real parmesan and I believe he even had some discussion on it.
The comments were hilarious, angry Italians everywhere.
Desire to visit the UK anytime soon. Decreased...
They probably haven't stopped drinking since Wednesday.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1414276912575361028
What scum. They manage to sour the whole thing.
It does seem to be getting ugly. After a year of lockdown I fear across the land the cunts are getting their rage out.
Quote from: Tamas on July 11, 2021, 01:23:30 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1414276912575361028
Can you really hold a football game with such poor security?
This won't stop until FIFA takes it seriously. Maybe ban all international games, including league games, from England for a few years.
Grim and painfully inadequate security. You can see the impact on TV because the stadium is fairly empty.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 01:28:39 PM
Grim and painfully inadequate security. You can see the impact on TV because the stadium is fairly empty.
There can't be many fences left standing, give them time.
Brits storming their temple of democracy to overturn what will be a clear victory for the other side.
English fans stormed the National Gallery, according to Bein Sports:
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1414288067385602060 (https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1414288067385602060)
This can't be a good thing for the 2030 WC bid that the UK wants to put forward.
This is going to be a shitshow in the stands.
One of the voices in the background in I think the third video "Oh, they have made a terrible decision" "Where are the police at"
Yeah, starting to get a bad feeling as to how things will go if England falls behind.
Quote from: Syt on July 11, 2021, 01:55:36 PM
Yeah, starting to get a bad feeling as to how things will go if England falls behind.
If they fall behind? Hod save us all if England wins.
Well shit
Never seen worse Italian defending.
Gareth is a genius.
Who's too fat now Jose?!
I think England will win.
What happened? Someone needs to live report, I'm putting the kids to sleep.
England up 1-0, very sloppy defending.
Cazzo!
The showed Spinazzola sitting on the bench. Has to be really hard for him to watch.
England scored in the second minute and continue to look stronger.
Jorginho out? As if Italy needed it.
Italians look clueless.
Yeah this is not the Italy from the earlier games. Hopefully they make it to the half without more goals where the coach can calm them down with plenty of hand gestures.
Referee blocking a possible Italian shot after a free kick. :D
Nice dive by Sterling. :lol:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 02:44:09 PM
Nice dive by Sterling. :lol:
Thats how they won the semi, so why not.
I've just never seen an England team play like this. That performance v Iceland was only in 2016 :blink:
The referee is really proving to be italys 12th man.
Great goal there.
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 02:48:58 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 02:44:09 PM
Nice dive by Sterling. :lol:
Thats how they won the semi, so why not.
Why not? Because you did not mention Kane's contribution (implicitly through a vague they does not count). :smarty:
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 02:52:17 PM
The referee is really proving to be italys 12th man.
Great goal there.
:lmfao:
Sloppy Italian (!) defending, as said earlier.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 02:52:17 PM
The referee is really proving to be italys 12th man.
Great goal there.
:lmfao:
Sloppy Italian (!) defending, as said earlier.
With a perfect pass and excellent finish.
Refs been fair, I think. Letting the game flow.
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 02:52:17 PM
The referee is really proving to be italys 12th man.
Great goal there.
:lmfao:
Sloppy Italian (!) defending, as said earlier.
With a perfect pass and excellent finish.
With average Italian defending perfect pass would not have mattered. Too late now, anyways.
I wonder if England can keep this pressure up. If they can they seem to have it in the bag.
It's not like they have had a tiring path to the final.
Sterlings like a kid that learned a new trick.
English defending is very solid. The team is very good.
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 03:15:14 PM
English defending is very solid. The team is very good.
I'm impressed by Walker, he also dominated Mæhle in the semi.
Clumsy goal, but a goal none the less
Nice
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 03:15:14 PM
English defending is very solid. The team is very good.
Until that corner. Please keep going. :)
I want this to go to penalties so bad :D
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 11, 2021, 03:29:38 PM
I want this to go to penalties so bad :D
England winning on penalties is the worst possible outcome.
But losing would be delicious.
Nice dive by Kane. :lol:
FFS, the iniquity of me having to celebrate a goal from Italy :lol:
Go England. Racist insular scum for the win!
https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1414311139589111818
Disgusting. Have Wembley never had to deal with troublesome fans before? I can't imagine UEFA settling with fining them a few thousand euros for this.
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 01:27:30 PM
This won't stop until FIFA takes it seriously. Maybe ban all international games, including league games, from England for a few years.
I repeat
England will get a goal on a quick counter attack.
At this point I forget if Jacob is really cheering for England or trying to jinx them haha
The English (?) commentators on TSN were annoying me so switched to the quebec feed at half time.
Also, Italy has to watch the yellow cards
A Quebec born and a Frenchman. They probably are less homers
Chiellini's take down of Saka was beautiful. No trying to hide it. :P
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 03:46:52 PM
Also, Italy has to watch the yellow cards
Pity Chiellini did not listen to you. :P
England really fell asleep until the last 10 minutes there.
Total flip vs the first half.
This is going to penalties isn't it?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 03:46:52 PM
Also, Italy has to watch the yellow cards
Pity Chiellini did not listen to you. :P
Sometimes you have to take the foul :P
Well the first time these two sides played, the Brits took the early lead, but Caesar tied it up in the second half. Vespasian won it all in extra time. So I am still hopeful.
Quote from: Liep on July 11, 2021, 03:58:11 PM
Chiellini's take down of Saka was beautiful. No trying to hide it. :P
That was worthy of a schoolyard game. :lol:
Waiting for the referee to notice the slight handball by the English player was somewhat risky indeed. :P
England's long balls are shit.
Pickford used to be good at this.
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 03:58:51 PM
England really fell asleep until the last 10 minutes there.
Total flip vs the first half.
This is going to penalties isn't it?
I think it was more a case of Italy waking up.
Give me pens. Nothing like one of the premier international football tournaments being decided on a penalty shootout.
And I'm totally not being ironic here.
Why does the extra time keep changing? Went from 1 to 2 then 3? Or is that just a tv thing?
Quote from: Threviel on July 11, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
Go England. Racist insular scum for the win!
Holy shit. You anti-England people are insufferable.
Not this :ph34r:
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 04:39:29 PM
Quote from: Threviel on July 11, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
Go England. Racist insular scum for the win!
Holy shit. You anti-England people are insufferable.
You're not sounding very much like a Francophile right now :D
Right now having Rashford play right back looks pretty smart. But that could've been a disaster with 5 minutes to play.
Who's coming home tonight? Richard Branson, the cup, both, neither? :ph34r:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 04:40:43 PM
Not this :ph34r:
Yeah, that shouldn't happen to a final. :(
Certainly suspenseful....
Has Italy won a final on penalties? I remember Baggio in 1994.
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 04:38:59 PM
Why does the extra time keep changing? Went from 1 to 2 then 3? Or is that just a tv thing?
TV or referee´s second thought?
Quote from: Liep on July 11, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
Has Italy won a final on penalties? I remember Baggio in 1994.
2006?
Penalty shootouts are awesome when you don't care about the outcome, but they suck if your team is playing.
If Pickford wins this for England. :lol:
Depends if your teams win or not. :P
That's the England I know
Quote from: Liep on July 11, 2021, 04:41:40 PM
Right now having Rashford play right back looks pretty smart. But that could've been a disaster with 5 minutes to play.
I guess not. What a weird run up he did.
The penalty stutter step wasn't always a thing right? When did it start? Could have sworn when I was younger it wasn't a thing.
Two subs missed, right?
Grazie mille Azzurri!
Yeah! :nelson:
Bad call on penalty takers. Subbing people on just for it then all the pressure on the teenager.
You just know the arse holes are going to be on the guys who missed for this.
Oh well. I'm off to fire bomb the nearest pizza hut.
Holy shit!
Going to fix myself a Martini with a double shot of schadenfreude.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 04:54:25 PM
Two subs missed, right?
Yep.
Three, Saka came on in the 70th minute. But the Sancho and Rashford subs look really stupid now.
To answer HVC...
I like the English team quite a lot. There are plenty of decent English fans. But the shittiness of those of England's fans who are garbage put me against them.
But obviously I didn't want to say that during the match, to avoid jinxing them.
I wonder if the fans will be respectful when Italy gets the trophy. :lol:
Incredible television. Jesus.
I get the impression that England is not very good at penalty shootouts.
Threviel, thank you for your service
I'm gutted for Saka but putting Rashford and Sancho on in the last minute of extra time just for the shootout and then both of them missing is just Wow.
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 04:58:38 PM
I wonder if the fans will be respectful when Italy gets the trophy. :lol:
:lol:
More seriously, though, I do feel for the English team. They're a good bunch of guys, and they played well.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6DBRgDXIAMYYtc?format=jpg&name=medium)
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Italy deserved it but wtf was that penalty line up
One of the BBC guys saying there's plenty of time left in the career for these kids to "redeem themselves" was pretty awful. These kids made it to the final and fought hard, ffs.
Penalties got them through and penalties killed them.
Normally I don't like games being decided on penalties but these were pretty exciting.
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 05:05:49 PM
Penalties got them through and penalties killed them.
Normally I don't like games being decided on penalties but these were pretty exciting.
Come on, I am sure you liked the games decided on penalties involving England in 2004 and 2006. :P
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:04:29 PM
Italy deserved it but wtf was that penalty line up
Risky and original, removing players who had subbed other players, earlier in the game.
Ronaldo apparently couldn't be bothered to bring the trophy :rolleyes:
I love how terrible penalty shooters have been in this Euro overall, loads of misses.
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:10:38 PM
Ronaldo apparently couldn't be bothered to bring the trophy :rolleyes:
:secret:
That would be Eder, Ronaldo wasn't there in the beginning to show the trophy.
:lol:
Eder's presence triggers French "fans", remember. Ronaldo is not that popular in that crowd, as well.
Now, being a bit more serious. England has a great team and should be among the favorites in 2022 given that neither Brazil or Argentina are looking that hot, and I can't see the other Euro teams improving massively except maybe us (and I think we overachieved), but imho Southgate is holding them back. They should have won this game but he was way too timid despite all the firepower at his disposal.
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 05:05:49 PM
Penalties got them through and penalties killed them.
Normally I don't like games being decided on penalties but these were pretty exciting.
Come on, I am sure you liked the games decided on penalties involving England in 2004 and 2006. :P
I was in Portugal for the 2004 one lol
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:14:44 PM
Now, being a bit more serious. England has a great team and should be among the favorites in 2022 given that neither Brazil or Argentina are looking that hot, and I can't see the other Euro teams improving massively except maybe us (and I think we overachieved), but imho Southgate is holding them back. They should have won this game but he was way too timid despite all the firepower at his disposal.
If Deschamps wakes up and seizes back control of the team, that would be enough to challenge it. Fernando Santos could also alter his playstyle strategy, though that's less likely. :D
PS: Nationalelf also got rid of Joachim Löw eventually, remember.
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
You.
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
Personally I blame the Scots, Welsh and Irish for not contributing players to this side.
:P
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
Threviel, thank you for your service
Oh noes! I jinxed England.
Anyway, pizza tomorrow?
Also, football went to Rome! :showoff:
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:22:13 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
You.
Huh? Your the one that brought it up
More seriously, bad behaviour by some English fans soured me on England, that's why I said the derisive stuff.
Also any of the semi-finalists could have taken this, it was three very even games by the four best teams in the tournament. Happy that Italy won, they played the most entertaining football.
Quote from: Threviel on July 11, 2021, 05:23:43 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
Threviel, thank you for your service
Oh noes! I jinxed England.
Anyway, pizza tomorrow?
Also, football went to Rome! :showoff:
Yeah, your efforts are duly appreciated. :)
If we are getting territorial I must point out that we PIGS have won every single Euro championship since 2004 :contract:
:lol: :yes: :yeah:
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 05:24:28 PM
Huh? Your the one that brought it up
And Gups is the one who decided to be a miserable little tosser over a thow away joke on a well trodden path.
Quote from: mongers on July 11, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
Personally I blame the Scots, Welsh and Irish for not contributing players to this side.
:P
Didn't you get a Great Britain/UK team for the 2012 Olympics anyways? :D
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:30:33 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 05:24:28 PM
Huh? Your the one that brought it up
And Gups is the one who decided to be a miserable little tosser over a thow away joke on a well trodden path.
If you call that a joke... :rolleyes:
Quote from: The Larch on July 11, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Also, for whatever reason, we've had more underdogs win the Euros (Denmark, Greece, Czechoslovakia...) than the WC.
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:40:22 PM
Quote from: The Larch on July 11, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Also, for whatever reason, we've had more underdogs win the Euros (Denmark, Greece, Czechoslovakia...) than the WC.
There used to be fewer games in the EC, longer tournament decreases odds.
Quote from: Threviel on July 11, 2021, 05:41:38 PM
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:40:22 PM
Quote from: The Larch on July 11, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Also, for whatever reason, we've had more underdogs win the Euros (Denmark, Greece, Czechoslovakia...) than the WC.
There used to be fewer games in the EC, longer tournament decreases odds.
Yeah, until 96 only 8 teams took part, and it was very common for big teams not to qualify.
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:28:59 PM
If we are getting territorial I must point out that we PIGS have won every single Euro championship since 2004 :contract:
:lol:
This picture of the Italian goal deserves to get the "Renaissance painting" treatment.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6DIvqiXMAI6pvv?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:40:22 PM
Quote from: The Larch on July 11, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Also, for whatever reason, we've had more underdogs win the Euros (Denmark, Greece, Czechoslovakia...) than the WC.
Back then, Czechoslovakia was not seen as an underdog.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 05:33:36 PM
Quote from: mongers on July 11, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
Personally I blame the Scots, Welsh and Irish for not contributing players to this side.
:P
Didn't you get a Great Britain/UK team for the 2012 Olympics anyways? :D
I think you're right, I'd totally forgotten about that.
:cheers:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:40:22 PM
Quote from: The Larch on July 11, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Also, for whatever reason, we've had more underdogs win the Euros (Denmark, Greece, Czechoslovakia...) than the WC.
Back then, Czechoslovakia was not seen as an underdog.
Their WC record was very poor in the 1970s.
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: celedhring on July 11, 2021, 05:40:22 PM
Quote from: The Larch on July 11, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 11, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Only the second title for Italy? I did not realize that.
Take into account that the Euros are a relatively young tournament, it only started out in 1960. The teams with more wins (Germany & Spain) only have 3 titles each.
Also, for whatever reason, we've had more underdogs win the Euros (Denmark, Greece, Czechoslovakia...) than the WC.
Back then, Czechoslovakia was not seen as an underdog.
Their WC record was very poor in the 1970s.
In the '60s they made it to the final, only to be beaten by the Brazil of Pelé.
Now, they (Czechia) are underdogs, and qualify less often for the WC than in the '70s, in the last 30 years. EURO is another matter, since 1996.
One of the biggest teams from the '30s to the '60s, with a decline leading to a '76 victory in the Euro. :P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panenka_(penalty_kick) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panenka_(penalty_kick))
Denmark and Greece had no such record.
Quote from: Liep on July 11, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
Has Italy won a final on penalties? I remember Baggio in 1994.
:grr:
Anyway congrats Italy. Hopefully France will get its shit together for Qatar.
Quote from: mongers on July 11, 2021, 05:49:05 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 05:33:36 PM
Quote from: mongers on July 11, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: Gups on July 11, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 11, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
Bernicia won.
The south failed us. As per.
Good God. How much of a tedious twat do you have to be to write that?
:rolleyes:
I get you're upset but no need to be a prick.
Pickford did great.
Who is being a prick with the boring north south obsession?
Personally I blame the Scots, Welsh and Irish for not contributing players to this side.
:P
Didn't you get a Great Britain/UK team for the 2012 Olympics anyways? :D
I think you're right, I'd totally forgotten about that.
:cheers:
Only the Welsh agreed to help England on the UK team IIRC.
More polite way of saying that only the Welsh had 5 players deemed worthy. Scottish and Northern Irish FAs eventually removed their initial objections.
But then, neither Beckham could make it to the final list. :D
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 06:11:08 PM
More polite way of saying that only the Welsh had 5 players deemed worthy. Scottish and Northern Irish FAs eventually removed their initial objections.
But then, neither Beckham could make it to the final list. :D
Oh they did? Good for them. Didn't know that.
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2021, 06:11:08 PM
More polite way of saying that only the Welsh had 5 players deemed worthy. Scottish and Northern Irish FAs eventually removed their initial objections.
But then, neither Beckham could make it to the final list. :D
Oh they did? Good for them. Didn't know that.
Going by wiki, they did. That must have been quite a hot debate back then, but I will refer to our British posters for their recollections on the matter.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Two notes:
- Southgate has been too timid. Once you're up one goal after 2 minutes, you have to do everything to close the game, even calling an early sub. The amount of talent that was sitting on the bench up until the last minutes was staggering, and then you put two of them on in the last three minutes, only for the PKs: big, big lack of confidence.
- I've noticed this happening more and more in recent years: 2nd place players receive the medal and immediately remove it from the neck. I hate it, because it's lacking every kind of respect both for the winners and for themselves: damn, you've come second, you should wear it with pride :mad:
L.
I get being disappointed you came in 2nd. But this was the best thing England has accomplished since 1966. In the future maybe they come around to what they achieved.
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 05:02:16 PM
:lol:
More seriously, though, I do feel for the English team. They're a good bunch of guys, and they played well.
Yeah - they did well. I hate penalties but I think that probably was fair over the balance of the whole two hours as awful and random as it is.
Though I slightly query whether supporting Bonucci's team is the most obvious way to oppose racist fans :hmm:
Quote
One of the BBC guys saying there's plenty of time left in the career for these kids to "redeem themselves" was pretty awful. These kids made it to the final and fought hard, ffs.
Agreed. I kind of get what he means and it's badly phrased - I don't think this will define their career the way Southgate's 96 miss defines his. Even now the number of times I've seen that Southgate miss during the Euros is sad.
So far what I've seen on social media and the front pages is proud of the players and there's no scapegoating (which would inevitably focus on black players). It better stay that way. If anyone comes for Rashford, Sancho and (especially) Saka around me I wil go spare about it :lol:
The look on Saka's face when Chiellini pulled him back - and just seeing him at the end was really sad.
Quote
Now, being a bit more serious. England has a great team and should be among the favorites in 2022 given that neither Brazil or Argentina are looking that hot, and I can't see the other Euro teams improving massively except maybe us (and I think we overachieved), but imho Southgate is holding them back. They should have won this game but he was way too timid despite all the firepower at his disposal.
Maybe - but he got us to a final for the first time in my life and a semi final before that. I agree - I don't think they're favourites but I think they will grow and improve as a team. I think we had one of the youngest teams in 2018 and despite a lot of change we had one of the youngest teams this year too which I kind of love. I worry that we may not be able to have such a team feeling as these players grow into bigger players who maybe expect to played a little bit more etc.
But I think the same goes for Spain, I think the same goes for Italy who have a young (for Italy) team and I think Germany will make very good quick progress on their post-Low reboot and I expect them to have a younger exciting team too. Lots of nations seem to have good teams coming together, which is good.
Quote- Southgate has been too timid. Once you're up one goal after 2 minutes, you have to do everything to close the game, even calling an early sub. The amount of talent that was sitting on the bench up until the last minutes was staggering, and then you put two of them on in the last three minutes, only for the PKs: big, big lack of confidence.
Yeah. It's been something through the tournament where every WhatsApp I'm on is pinging with people calling for a change and, until tonight Southgate's resistance to that planning and sticking to his plan worked. I think that's bought him a lot of trust.
But I didn't like substitutes for penalties because I just think you need a touch or two and a bit of invovlement. It's a lot of pressure to come in just for penalties - I think Grealish and Sterling having a shot would have been a better shout. But you know if they'd scuffed we'd probably be sat here wondering why he didn't bring on Sancho or Rashford.
Quote- I've noticed this happening more and more in recent years: 2nd place players receive the medal and immediately remove it from the neck. I hate it, because it's lacking every kind of respect both for the winners and for themselves: damn, you've come second, you should wear it with pride :mad:
Yeah - no-one likes the "losers' medal". I've seen that a few times (not least the Champions League Final) but it's one of the (many) reasons I wonder why I'm not a professional sportsman and they are - I don't have that competitive drive and loathing of anything but winning.
QuoteGoing by wiki, they did. That must have been quite a hot debate back then, but I will refer to our British posters for their recollections on the matter.
I remember nothing about it.
Edit: Oh, inevitably Saka's social media is getting racist abuse now :ultra: This has been a huge issues for the last few years and I feel like the social media platforms really need to crush it :(
Edit: And maybe on us - he is getting lots of love and supportive messages too. But those players will see both :(
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Agreed. I kind of get what he means and it's badly phrased - I don't think this will define their career the way Southgate's 96 miss defines his. Even now the number of times I've seen that Southgate miss during the Euros is sad.
Southgate interview with the prince about the miss
https://youtu.be/Pytk8d_yBTI
Quote from: HVC on July 11, 2021, 06:41:26 PM
Southgate interview with the prince about the miss
https://youtu.be/Pytk8d_yBTI
He was asked about it after beating Germany - and it was really moving. He basically said he'd looked up after the win and saw David Seaman in the seats and said "for the teammates that played with me, I can't change that. That's always going to hurt. But what's lovely is we've given people another day to remember."
I think that side of Southgate is possibly why he is so popular.
Edit: Though I do query as well as the subs - putting Saka and Sancho so late in the penalty list because I sort of feel that's when there most likely to be pressure so that's where you put your older more experienced players. But then you have a situation like Ronaldo going last and the team's already lost. I hate penalties :(
Edit: Also while there are sections of English fans who are utterly toxic and they need to be driven out (the security failures again are mind-blowing, I cannot imagine them in a cup or Champions League final at Wembley and I don't know how the FA underestimated this so badly) - but I have a lot of love in my heart for this woman :lol: :wub:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6C7bkLXIA06rum?format=jpg&name=small)
Edit: Oh there's now people getting organised and just flooding Saka, Rashford and Sancho's socials with messages of love and support to try and drown out the racists.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Yeah - they did well. I hate penalties but I think that probably was fair over the balance of the whole two hours as awful and random as it is.
Yeah, it wasn't fundamentally unjust. Could've gone either way.
QuoteThough I slightly query whether supporting Bonucci's team is the most obvious way to oppose racist fans :hmm:
Oh I have no doubt there's a bunch of racist BS associated with the Italian supporters, though I'm not aware of it. Nor with the English, for that matter, though as you've brought up here the team itself is pushing in the other direction.
To be honest, though, the thing that pushed me into "some of their fans are so despicable I'm supporting Italy" territory isn't racism. It's:
1) Spitting on visiting supporters (in Covid times, no less), including children
2) Aggressive verbal abuse of children, and physical assault of supporters with children around. Even if physical confrontations with opposing supporters is on (and it isn't, IMO, especially for international matches), you hold back when there are children around. That's a super bright line for me.
3) The laser light at Schmeichel's face during the penalty. Maybe if that hadn't been the deciding goal, and it hadn't been my team, I'd brush it off. But it was.
On the positive side, the English team and coach themselves are likeable. I like the game they play. I like the values they espouse. And I know plenty of lovely English folks, whose joy at winning would bring me pleasure (including all the English posters on languish). But the three points above are enough to outweigh that.
I mean, normally I'm not a fan of the Italian team. And the - what half a dozen ? - yellow cards are not exactly the style of play I prefer either.
QuoteEdit: Oh, inevitably Saka's social media is getting racist abuse now :ultra: This has been a huge issues for the last few years and I feel like the social media platforms really need to crush it :(
Edit: And maybe on us - he is getting lots of love and supportive messages too. But those players will see both :(
That's shit :(
But good on the decent English folks pushing back.
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 07:16:33 PM
To be honest, though, the thing that pushed me into "some of their fans are so despicable I'm supporting Italy" territory isn't racism. It's:
1) Spitting on visiting supporters (in Covid times, no less), including children
2) Aggressive verbal abuse of children, and physical assault of supporters with children around. Even if physical confrontations with opposing supporters is on (and it isn't, IMO, especially for international matches), you hold back when there are children around. That's a super bright line for me.
3) The laser light at Schmeichel's face during the penalty. Maybe if that hadn't been the deciding goal, and it hadn't been my team, I'd brush it off. But it was.
Yeah - 100% agreed on all of those. I entirely understand that and it is a section of the fans (my suspicion is a young, male, coked up section of the fanbase) that are incredibly upsetting to see and behaving disgracefully.
And I'm happy for Italians. They are normally a team I always like in tournaments because I love the kits and the anthem and Mancini's suit and I grew up in the 90s when Serie A was (for me) at it's most iconic - scenes in Bedford (the most Italian city in England apparently):
https://twitter.com/agocar/status/1414377151466463232?s=20
Edit: Incidentally I had no idea that Bedford is 20% British-Italian, both Italians and people of Italian descent and and I have no idea why :hmm:
Similar scenes in Glasgow :lol: There is a large Glasgow-Italian population, but I think it's mainly just Scots celebrating :lol:
QuoteThat's shit :(
But good on the decent English folks pushing back.
Agreed - but this keeps happening with black football players on social media and I think the social media companies have a responsibility here. You pretty rarely get racist chants or things like that any more in English stadiums - and when they happen all clubs are pretty good at condemning and banning that person for life. But it's just moved online and anonymous and the players will look at their social media and it's not just one voice in a stadium of tens of thousands but directed individually at them.
Lots of reporters saying tonight was the worst football gme they've attended for crowd control/security. Some really bad stories coming out (not in a negative to Italians way) about people with no tickets in a block of the stadium under the press box - fans with tickets not able to actually get their seats and stewards overwhelmed/not able to do anything about it.
As I say Wembley routinely hosts very big club games both nationally and for UEFA. The FA should have anticipated stuff like this (I'd be astonished if it wasn't being discussed on social media before tonight) - there was plenty of warning from the Denmark game and this was a shambles. We're very lucky it didn't end in a worse way than it did.
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
It is so obvious that you don't understand football :hug:
... or Europe :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
Scotland always want England to lose any game of football. But in a final I think the horror of England possibly winning a tournament is probably as strong as the hope south of the border. And I hope that never changes :lol: :wub:
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
It is so obvious that you don't understand football :hug:
I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 08:12:08 PM
I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!
Of course you wouldn't :hug:
https://youtu.be/0n1cIaH6ao0
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 08:12:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
It is so obvious that you don't understand football :hug:
I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!
Your perceptions of Mexico - being a citizen of the world's only superpower over the last 30 yours or so, may be just a tad different from the average Scottish person's perception of England.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 08:12:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
It is so obvious that you don't understand football :hug:
I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!
Your perceptions of Mexico - being a citizen of the world's only superpower over the last 30 yours or so, may be just a tad different from the average Scottish person's perception of England.
Ok first of all Scotland has been a part of a global power for centuries they are hardly some trod upon little country they have been doing the trodding, so what does that have to do with anything? That got them just as many football championships as it got us.
However, it is true no other political entity gets to field four national football teams, so their relation to each other will be unique in this particular arena. If Quebec had its own national hockey team I am sure that would be somewhat comparable. That would actually be kind of amazing.
So maybe this is more like a Texas-OU or Texas-Texas A&M American Football type deal because it is against people you probably know and have relatives on the other side and everybody irrationally hates each other for no clear reason besides familiarity...but I thought I should use a soccer comparison. Besides I am from Texas. I do know lots of Mexican fans.
In Soccer Mexico is the established power while we are kind of this buffoonish underachievers nobody really takes seriously. So I do think we kind of have an inferiority complex in this one area. Plus when Mexico comes over there to play they have so many people living here they annoyingly crowd our stadiums and cheer for Mexico. They are very infuriating. And I don't really want to talk about how obnoxious the last two WC qualifiers were.
FWIW, in Vienna you can hear loud cheers whenever a goal is scored against Germany, regardless of who they're playing, because Austrians, overwhelmingly, root against Germany (it's gotten a bit less during the years when they had a sympathetic team that played attractive football).
Over here you can hear loud cheers whenever Spain scores or is scored against :lol:
My block was very pro-Italy yesterday.
And even though I don't follow football much anymore, being a Germany supporter we've been spoiled. The first tournament I remember was the Euro 1984 in France. Since then, Germany was in the Euro final three times (1992, 1996, 2008) and won it once (1996), and was in World Cup finals four times (1986, 1990, 2002, 2014) and won twice (1990, 2014).
I agree that expanding the field makes surprises less likely, because more matches usually even out flukes. I'm doubtful we will see the likes of a Denmark win 1992 again, or even a Greece win like in 2004. I read yesterday that UEFA is looking into expanding the field to 32 for the 2028 Euro. I get that they want all "big" teams to be there to get that sweet, sweet TV money, but at some point they could just as well auto-qualify the top 8 or 12 teams in Europe and have the rest fight for spots through qualification.
The 32 team Euro is ridiculous, there are 55 teams in UEFA, you'll have more countries qualifying that missing out. Once again greed trumping all other considerations when it comes to our esteemed football governing bodies.
Maybe Australia can join, like in Eurovision, and a couple others. :P
Just need 9 more teams for a field of 64 ;)
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The look on Saka's face when Chiellini pulled him back - and just seeing him at the end was really sad.
That was the point which really marred the game imo. Borderline sending off offence, so cheap and nasty. Inevitable in the situation but no less dishonorable.
My (Italian) gf even said she hates chiellini as he has past history of being a git and felt it reflected badly he was the one who got to hold the cup.
Sad but yeah, inevitable the racists are out after the missers.
Tbh it's sort of good it went the way it did with it not all just falling on one of them. Rashford in particular I'd imagine would anger the Boo boys.
Quote from: Pedrito on July 11, 2021, 06:21:39 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Two notes:
- Southgate has been too timid. Once you're up one goal after 2 minutes, you have to do everything to close the game, even calling an early sub. The amount of talent that was sitting on the bench up until the last minutes was staggering, and then you put two of them on in the last three minutes, only for the PKs: big, big lack of confidence.
- I've noticed this happening more and more in recent years: 2nd place players receive the medal and immediately remove it from the neck. I hate it, because it's lacking every kind of respect both for the winners and for themselves: damn, you've come second, you should wear it with pride :mad:
L.
It was quite funny to see right in front of the camera. Man (surely it should have been prince William? Who was that guy?) puts medal on the player - they immediately take it off.
Almost expected him to throw a "why do I even bother strop" :p
I get taking the medal off, it'll be annoying to wear, but doing it immediately in front of the camera was just ridiculous.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 06:46:22 PM
I have a lot of love in my heart for this woman :lol: :wub:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6C7bkLXIA06rum?format=jpg&name=small)
Becaus she's clearly blind? :unsure:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 07:28:34 PM
Edit: Incidentally I had no idea that Bedford is 20% British-Italian, both Italians and people of Italian descent and and I have no idea why :hmm:
Oh I read about this recently in Engel's England. Italians came over in the 50s to work in the brickworks when the employment boom meant UK citizens had more options, whereas Italy definitely did not.
BTW can someone explain the intense man crush TV commentators seem to have for this Grealish fellow? I didn't even hear about him before the tournament and during every single England game I had to listen to just what a big fan favourite he is and what a massive difference he was goijg to make. If he is such an amazing talent why was he a permanent substitute?
He's great, but not quite as good as Sterling.
Having a fresh almost-Sterling coming on as an impact sub is the stuff of dreams.
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 08:12:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
It is so obvious that you don't understand football :hug:
I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!
Come on, you're a big sports fan. Being insular and petty is part of the fun. :P
Quote from: Pedrito on July 11, 2021, 06:21:39 PM
Two notes:
- Southgate has been too timid. Once you're up one goal after 2 minutes, you have to do everything to close the game, even calling an early sub. The amount of talent that was sitting on the bench up until the last minutes was staggering, and then you put two of them on in the last three minutes, only for the PKs: big, big lack of confidence.
I think they tried to close it they just couldn't.
I suspect looking at Southgate as timid might be influenced by equating the England team with the Premier League in terms of expectations. I think Southgate has been realistic. Previous England teams felt like they had to go out like they were the very best of the world and fell apart when that perception and the tactics it forced came into contact with reality. The way I see it, Southgate's "genius" is that he combines being a good leader with being able to ignore that baggage and build the team around realities.
Having said that, the penalty substitutes were his error and he has acknowledged as much.
Southgate is a very good leader and man manager.
The final however isn't the first time he has shown his weakness with game management and making the right subs.
Attempting to protect a 0-1 advantage through 90 minutes against a quality side is a fool's errand in football, particularly when you have the makeup of this English team, which was pretty attack-minded.
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:05:23 AM
Attempting to protect a 0-1 advantage through 90 minutes against a quality side is a fool's errand in football, particularly when you have the makeup of this English team, which was pretty attack-minded.
But I didn't see a team trying to dig in. I saw a team trying and a few cases almost managing a second goal in the first half. Then the Italians had their espressos at half time and nullified England efforts in the second half.
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:05:23 AM
Attempting to protect a 0-1 advantage through 90 minutes against a quality side is a fool's errand in football, particularly when you have the makeup of this English team, which was pretty attack-minded.
I'm not sure on England being attack minded.
IMO the way they're setup is for being second best and hitting the other team on the break. That's why they tended to struggle against weaker teams who dug in.
And yes. As Tamas says they tried to score another but nobody seemed willing to shoot. So many almost chances.
Quote from: Tamas on July 12, 2021, 03:23:52 AM
BTW can someone explain the intense man crush TV commentators seem to have for this Grealish fellow? I didn't even hear about him before the tournament and during every single England game I had to listen to just what a big fan favourite he is and what a massive difference he was goijg to make. If he is such an amazing talent why was he a permanent substitute?
He's the People's Himbo. My non-football watching friends were calling for Jack Grealish despite knowing nothing but people want him. When the camera cuts to him warming up it's, the pub cheers like we've scored a goal.
Rory Smith did a good piece on it. I think Grealish is a very good player. He is also the sort of creative, technical, scheming player that English football hasn't produced much for a while. He also looks like a good footballer even to non-fans (unlike, say, Mount who does a lot of good work but lots of it is off the ball). Plus he plays with his short socks or socks rolled down :wub:
And he's a bit of an everyman. He looks like a recognisable type of lad you'll find in every town in the country. He's still playing for his boyhood club. And he's a little bit new (like Kalvin Philips and Declan Rice) because he plays for a mid-table side that have only been up for a little while. We haven't seen him fail, especially on a European night, and those more strongly felt/poisonous club rivalries (Liverpool/United, United/City, Spurs/Arsenal, Everyone/Chelsea) don't apply so much to modern Villa, Leeds and West Ham so it's easier for everyone to like him.
QuoteOh I read about this recently in Engel's England. Italians came over in the 50s to work in the brickworks when the employment boom meant UK citizens had more options, whereas Italy definitely did not.
Interesting - thanks :)
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:05:23 AM
Attempting to protect a 0-1 advantage through 90 minutes against a quality side is a fool's errand in football, particularly when you have the makeup of this English team, which was pretty attack-minded.
Yes. The only team I think can confidently protect a second minute goal are Italy :lol:
I think it took a long time for England/Southgate to react to Italy coming out as strong as they did in the second half - and I think that is a flaw of Southgate's.
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 04:11:06 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:05:23 AM
Attempting to protect a 0-1 advantage through 90 minutes against a quality side is a fool's errand in football, particularly when you have the makeup of this English team, which was pretty attack-minded.
I'm not sure on England being attack minded.
IMO the way they're setup is for being second best and hitting the other team on the break. That's why they tended to struggle against weaker teams who dug in.
And yes. As Tamas says they tried to score another but nobody seemed willing to shoot. So many almost chances.
For all their guile, Italy's defence was slow. They should have been pressured more and England definitely had the personnel for it, but of course that's always a bit risky.
Also, I think England definitely took the foot off the pedal after storming out of the gate. Italy was already getting in control before the end of the half.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 12, 2021, 03:23:52 AM
BTW can someone explain the intense man crush TV commentators seem to have for this Grealish fellow? I didn't even hear about him before the tournament and during every single England game I had to listen to just what a big fan favourite he is and what a massive difference he was goijg to make. If he is such an amazing talent why was he a permanent substitute?
He's the People's Himbo. My non-football watching friends were calling for Jack Grealish despite knowing nothing but people want him. When the camera cuts to him warming up it's, the pub cheers like we've scored a goal.
This can be a really bizarre country. :P
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 02:42:46 AMThat was the point which really marred the game imo. Borderline sending off offence, so cheap and nasty. Inevitable in the situation but no less dishonorable.
Step down from the high horse. Was it cynical tactical fouling? For sure. Cheap, nasty and dishonorable? Don't be ridiculous.
QuoteMy (Italian) gf even said she hates chiellini as he has past history of being a git and felt it reflected badly he was the one who got to hold the cup.
Wasn't your gf Swiss?
In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb and presume that what Chiellini did was widely cheered in Italy, and he's even more beloved for it still. Italians love that kind of player and that kind of attitude, and in no conceivable way do they feel that it reflected badly that he received the cup as captain.
She can be two things :p
Tactical fouling is shit. As said i can understand people doing it in the situation but it makes it no less worthy of scorn.
I'm seeing Chiellini's foul meme'd to kingdom come, so I'd guess it's hardly frowned upon. It was a bookable offence and he got booked for it. As discussed in the fair play thread, these happen pretty often in football.
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:15:49 AM
For all their guile, Italy's defence was slow. They should have been pressured more and England definitely had the personnel for it, but of course that's always a bit risky.
Also, I think England definitely took the foot off the pedal after storming out of the gate. Italy was already getting in control before the end of the half.
I think that's been all of England's games. It's little surges rather than long periods of domination. So really good first fifteen minutes, followed by still strong but less dominant - then half an hour of the other side getting back into it. Southgate waits for their subs and, until, now England have generally finished a little bit stronger as well.
In a way I think that's the next challenge is finding a way of playing where you can up and down the gears during a game rather than these quite stop-start surges. And also able to better exploit those weaknesses - I love Chiellini and Bonucci's a superb defender but I thought there was more we could to test them with a little pace.
QuoteStep down from the high horse? Was it cynical tactical fouling? for sure. Cheap, nasty and dishonorable? Don't be ridiculous. [...]
In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb and presume that what Chiellini did was widely cheered in Italy, and he's even more beloved for it still. Italians love that kind of player and that kind of attitude, and in no conceivable way do they feel that it reflected badly that he received the cup as captain.
Agreed it was a clever, cynical tactical foul (and the type you'd expect from a 35 year old Italian centre back). And I've always had a soft spot for Chiellini and can understand they'll love him more.
But I felt really bad for Saka, only 19 etc :(
In the Independent - apparently Southgate is likely to get a knighthood which is nice and deserved for the last two tournaments.
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:31:29 AM
I'm seeing Chiellini's foul meme'd to kingdom come, so I'd guess it's hardly frowned upon. It was a bookable offence and he got booked for it. As discussed in the fair play thread, these happen pretty often in football.
Yeah - I mean I think it's a pretty extreme example which is why it's so easily memed. It's not a typical clever little cynical foul that you might get away with - it's very blatant :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:31:29 AM
I'm seeing Chiellini's foul meme'd to kingdom come, so I'd guess it's hardly frowned upon. It was a bookable offence and he got booked for it. As discussed in the fair play thread, these happen pretty often in football.
Yeah, it was a calculated foul, it's part of the game. He did it very blatantly and took the yellow without complaining. Also, nobody got injured. It won't hurt Chiellini's reputation one bit.
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 02:42:46 AM
It was quite funny to see right in front of the camera. Man (surely it should have been prince William? Who was that guy?) puts medal on the player - they immediately take it off.
Almost expected him to throw a "why do I even bother strop" :p
I get taking the medal off, it'll be annoying to wear, but doing it immediately in front of the camera was just ridiculous.
That man was Ceferin, UEFA's boss.
L.
Quote from: Tamas on July 12, 2021, 04:19:27 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 12, 2021, 03:23:52 AM
BTW can someone explain the intense man crush TV commentators seem to have for this Grealish fellow? I didn't even hear about him before the tournament and during every single England game I had to listen to just what a big fan favourite he is and what a massive difference he was goijg to make. If he is such an amazing talent why was he a permanent substitute?
He's the People's Himbo. My non-football watching friends were calling for Jack Grealish despite knowing nothing but people want him. When the camera cuts to him warming up it's, the pub cheers like we've scored a goal.
This can be a really bizarre country. :P
Yeah in my household we couldn't stop mocking him.
And that grealish naked lady bed photo didn't help.
:lol: But isn't that sort of thing why he's kind of relatable?
Quote from: Maladict on July 12, 2021, 04:40:26 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:31:29 AM
I'm seeing Chiellini's foul meme'd to kingdom come, so I'd guess it's hardly frowned upon. It was a bookable offence and he got booked for it. As discussed in the fair play thread, these happen pretty often in football.
Yeah, it was a calculated foul, it's part of the game. He did it very blatantly and took the yellow without complaining. Also, nobody got injured. It won't hurt Chiellini's reputation one bit.
I'd even say that it might have enhanced his reputation, in the sense of making him to be the kind of guy who is not afraid to get his hands dirty to do what needs to get done, which is the kind of super pragmatic/cynical stuff that Italy loves about their players, defenders in particular.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 05:05:40 AM
:lol: But isn't that sort of thing why he's kind of relatable?
No, I'm not one of the lads. ;)
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2021, 05:12:52 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 05:05:40 AM
:lol: But isn't that sort of thing why he's kind of relatable?
No, I'm not one of the lads. ;)
Well neither am I :P But I know of them :P
Quote from: The Larch on July 12, 2021, 05:09:57 AM
Quote from: Maladict on July 12, 2021, 04:40:26 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 04:31:29 AM
I'm seeing Chiellini's foul meme'd to kingdom come, so I'd guess it's hardly frowned upon. It was a bookable offence and he got booked for it. As discussed in the fair play thread, these happen pretty often in football.
Yeah, it was a calculated foul, it's part of the game. He did it very blatantly and took the yellow without complaining. Also, nobody got injured. It won't hurt Chiellini's reputation one bit.
I'd even say that it might have enhanced his reputation, in the sense of making him to be the kind of guy who is not afraid to get his hands dirty to do what needs to get done, which is the kind of super pragmatic/cynical stuff that Italy loves about their players, defenders in particular.
No mention of the slight handball by the English player allowing to get ahead of Chiellini before the latter's foul? Some fair and balanced English analysis. :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 11, 2021, 06:46:22 PM
He was asked about it after beating Germany - and it was really moving. He basically said he'd looked up after the win and saw David Seaman in the seats and said "for the teammates that played with me, I can't change that. That's always going to hurt. But what's lovely is we've given people another day to remember."
I think that side of Southgate is possibly why he is so popular.
Edit: Though I do query as well as the subs - putting Saka and Sancho so late in the penalty list because I sort of feel that's when there most likely to be pressure so that's where you put your older more experienced players. But then you have a situation like Ronaldo going last and the team's already lost. I hate penalties :(
If you are thinking of the 2012 semi-final shootout between Portugal and Spain, the Portuguese coach, Paulo Bento, chose an inordinate number of defenders. Southgate did not got that far.
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 12:03:15 AM
In Soccer Mexico is the established power while we are kind of this buffoonish underachievers nobody really takes seriously. So I do think we kind of have an inferiority complex in this one area. Plus when Mexico comes over there to play they have so many people living here they annoyingly crowd our stadiums and cheer for Mexico. They are very infuriating. And I don't really want to talk about how obnoxious the last two WC qualifiers were.
An argument often made by French "fans" for Portuguese, Spanish, Italian fans cheering for their respective teams in France. It's sore loser territory, careful.
Heard as well against North Africans but it is much less PC to point out, although the behavior is not the same, and not in a good way.
I can see an argument that an action which is deemed unacceptable enough to warrant a sanction should have a sanction be heavy enough so that it's discouraged in all situations. Punishment should be prohibitive, not merely define the price for action.
Red card for a handball in midfield would be too much IMHO. A free kick would have been enough, in this case.
Quote from: DGuller on July 12, 2021, 07:56:01 AM
I can see an argument that an action which is deemed unacceptable enough to warrant a sanction should have a sanction be heavy enough so that it's discouraged in all situations. Punishment should be prohibitive, not merely define the price for action.
The Chiellini thing was one of those things that basically divided people who watch football regularly v those who don't in my experience last night. In that it was cynical and clever, but it wasn't the last man so I think was rightly a yellow - while people I was watching with who only watch later stages of international tournaments were outraged that wasn't a red.
Similarly they thought that it was sort of disgraceful and perhaps a reflection on Englishness when fans were booing Italian possession or the players taking their medals off - while I thought hearing fans booing an opposition player having time one the ball was a lovely, warm moment of real fans back in stadiums not the producer auto-tuned crowd noise because it happens at all levels in all countries :lol: And with the medals that is standard in tournaments - I don't know if it's maybe something new :hmm:
Edit: And love this tweet today from the England account - I think we all know who they don't mean:
QuoteEngland
@England
To those who stood by us every step of the way this summer: thank you
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 08:20:18 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 12, 2021, 07:56:01 AM
I can see an argument that an action which is deemed unacceptable enough to warrant a sanction should have a sanction be heavy enough so that it's discouraged in all situations. Punishment should be prohibitive, not merely define the price for action.
The Chiellini thing was one of those things that basically divided people who watch football regularly v those who don't in my experience last night. In that it was cynical and clever, but it wasn't the last man so I think was rightly a yellow - while people I was watching with who only watch later stages of international tournaments were outraged that wasn't a red.
Similarly they thought that it was sort of disgraceful and perhaps a reflection on Englishness when fans were booing Italian possession or the players taking their medals off - while I thought hearing fans booing an opposition player having time one the ball was a lovely, warm moment of real fans back in stadiums not the producer auto-tuned crowd noise because it happens at all levels in all countries :lol: And with the medals that is standard in tournaments - I don't know if it's maybe something new :hmm:
It was borderline.
It was out on the flank and there were 2 (IIRC?) other defenders roughly level further up the pitch.
If it had been in the centre then IMO 100% definite red. Though since Saka would have to come inwards a bit then it was a lot more debatable whether Chiellini was the last man (though its likely the others wouldn't have caught Saka and he'd be free to run into the keeper and waste the chance)
From the top of my head I can't remember of Chiellini did many fouls before that? If so and he was already verging on yellow then it should have been red. If his hands were clean then yellow was probably right.
And yeah. Booing the opposing team during the game and trying to distract them is fine. Not up there with booing anthems.
QuoteEdit: And love this tweet today from the England account - I think we all know who they don't mean:
Heh. Nice.
No way it would have ever been a red, Chiellini was not the last defender and it did not create a clear goal chance. Furthermore, it was not an agression. A yellow was the right call.
As a huge Saka fan I truly believe Chiellini should be arrested, jailed, and never allowed to play football ever again. What a disgrace to the game.
As someone who played football as a youth and watches football regularly, it's simply a yellow. That sort of stuff happens all the time. Get on with it and keep the game moving.
Quote from: The Larch on July 12, 2021, 08:52:44 AM
No way it would have ever been a red, Chiellini was not the last defender and it did not create a clear goal chance. Furthermore, it was not an agression. A yellow was the right call.
I agree - but I think for people who don't normally watch football they all thought it should have been a red, perhaps because it was so obvious. But as you say he wasn't the last man and there wasn't a clear goalscoring opportunity and it wasn't really dangerous.
QuoteAnd yeah. Booing the opposing team during the game and trying to distract them is fine. Not up there with booing anthems.
Yeah - although interestin Gary Neville has a slightly different take on anthems as a former international:
QuoteGary Neville
@GNev2
Jul 9
When I played in the different countries and our NA was booed I always took it as the opposition fans trying to unsettle us , drown our fans out and never as some kind of attack on us as people.Same when we did it other teams. Is it really that bad and disrespectful?
QuoteAs a huge Saka fan I truly believe Chiellini should be arrested, jailed, and never allowed to play football ever again. What a disgrace to the game.
:lol: Yeah. "Well done, he's 19, Giorgio!"
Make no mistake, if Chiellini did that to one of our players I would be demanding a public trial and execution, pretending that Piqué or Busquets haven't done that foul a hundred times before :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 09:23:27 AM
Make no mistake, if Chiellini did that to one of our players I would be demanding a public trial and execution, pretending that Piqué or Busquets haven't done that foul a hundred times before :lol:
It's the beautiful game :lol:
Quote from: celedhring on July 12, 2021, 09:23:27 AM
Make no mistake, if Chiellini did that to one of our players I would be demanding a public trial and execution, pretending that Piqué or Busquets haven't done that foul a hundred times before :lol:
Ah, Busquets...
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b0582ca361b5282eff1029156c32582d/tenor.gif?itemid=5597237)
My opinions on the current topics:
Chiellini's foul: it's the kind of thing I hate when done agains a team I support, and that I think is a little dirty but grudgingly respect when done by a team I do support. It's certainly something I've done myself while playing (though not frequently). The Italians - in my eyes - do it too frequently, and it's one of the reasons I tend to dislike them as a team.
Taking medals off: I have a mild preference for people keeping the medals on and being proud, but I can see it the other way. Not a big deal, IMO.
Booing national anthems: a bit tacky, but no big deal. In Danish we sometimes use the term "in a witch's cauldron" (in Danish, natch) to describe the intensity of playing in a stadium packed with opposing fans. IMO it's all part of the game, though I have a preference for not booing, booing is fine. Prior to the semi, Danish players were asked how they felt about going to play in front of a hostile audience in Wembley, and the consensus was variations of "it's going to be an awesome, once-in-a-lifetime experience, can't wait." And conversely, "then, at Wembley, it sounded like the Italians outnumbered the English" was an apt description of the response to the Italian goal - and having booed the anthem prior, just feeds into the psychology of that. In short, it's not something I can get too worked up about.
Agree with Jacob - and on the medals I think Guardiola who kisses his loser's medals and keeps them up as a spur onto winning next time. But I've always liked that idea of wear your loss and internalise it into the anger/motivation to do better next time. I think it was a big thing for Ferguson too.
Separately on Wembley a few points people have been making that are interesting - so there were no controls on Wembley Way (the road leading up to Wembley which is quite open and big). You would expect that to be closed except to ticketholders, instead there were about 200,000 people there and only 60k tickets sold. Basically there was no perimeter control whatsoever until you got to the stadium (part of this is a problem a few English stadiums have of lots of residential buildings quite close to the stadium so it's difficult to have an outer ring), you would apparently expect an outer perimeter about 1/2 a mile around the stadium. I think it's also problematic that the business model of Wembley is to charge extortionate prices for all sorts of hospitality (like drinks etc) which sort of encourages people to get tanked outside of Wembley beforehand rather than the model in some more modern stadiums (I think Spurs?) of trying to encourage ticket holding fans to spend a few hours at the stadium.
The footage that went viral last night as English fans kicking off after the game wasn't from after the game it was apparently people with no tickets who'd breached the security basically getting tackled/fought by fans with tickets - because there was an inadequate security and multiple security breaches. From a sixty-something England fan (with a ticket) who left after 70 minutes "We are done. I just think a sporting occasion like this is about enjoyment and the atmosphere, not violence. Entering here there were thugs basically trying to storm the gates, there was no policing, no one checked covid tests. There were people standing here without tickets in other people's seats and then there was violence."
I totally agree with the people saying we can't have a tournament with games at Wembley at this point - based on the last two games there is no reason to believe that the FA can control that stadium. I think it might have been particularly bad - for various reasons (the amount of videos I've seen of people just taking bumps of coke in the open while people around them are cheering, England doing well, and this being the first big event after 15 months of confinement) - but it's ultimately on the authorities and the FA who own that stadium to anticipate and manage that and they just haven't. There were warnings <_<
Also on the racism angle the Australian FA have issued a statement condemning a news channel there who reported it as "Three black players failed in penalty shoot out which England lost 3-2 to Italy". I cannot understand how that news channel thought that was the way to cover that story :blink: :bleeding:
On the subject of booing, my wife was horrified that the English fans were booing the Italian kickers during their penalties. She thought it was "rude" and "felt bad" for the Italians.
I just kinda laughed at her :D
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 12, 2021, 11:15:03 AM
On the subject of booing, my wife was horrified that the English fans were booing the Italian kickers during their penalties. She thought it was "rude" and "felt bad" for the Italians.
I just kinda laughed at her :D
Does she get offended when people waive their hands to distract opposing free throw shooters in Basketball? :lol:
Also it feels like food triggering may continue a little bit - from Joe Barton (the writer of the amazing Giri/Haji and a long suffering Spurs fan) :lol:
QuoteJoe Barton
@JoeBarton_
We improve their national dish with the gentle introduction of pineapple and this is how they repay us?
Italians put all kinds of stuff on pizza, stuff certainly no American would ever dream of putting on it. I don't know how weirded out they are by pineapple as a topping.
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
Italians put all kinds of stuff on pizza, stuff certainly no American would ever dream of putting on it. I don't know how weirded out they are by pineapple as a topping.
Go over there and ask for a pineapple pizza in a restaurant. :lol:
I'm hoping the Italians are in on the joke, that way all parties can have a laugh about a fairly innocent bit of trolling.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g187860-d2719095-r143664658-Pizzeria_Ristorante_Gaston-Merano_Province_of_South_Tyrol_Trentino_Alto_Adige.html
South Tyrol though :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
Italians put all kinds of stuff on pizza, stuff certainly no American would ever dream of putting on it. I don't know how weirded out they are by pineapple as a topping.
I am nationally obligated to point out that "Hawaiian" pizza was invented in Canada.
They'd probably be as weirded out as north americans would be by artichokes on a pizza.
Pineapple on pizza is an atrocity.
But a place in Alaska had one with pears, and it was divine. :sleep:
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 12:03:15 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 08:12:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers. :lol:
It is so obvious that you don't understand football :hug:
I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!
Your perceptions of Mexico - being a citizen of the world's only superpower over the last 30 yours or so, may be just a tad different from the average Scottish person's perception of England.
Ok first of all Scotland has been a part of a global power for centuries they are hardly some trod upon little country they have been doing the trodding, so what does that have to do with anything? That got them just as many football championships as it got us.
We are talking about Scotland today. You might be aware of the separatist movement there at the moment.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 12, 2021, 11:54:55 AM
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g187860-d2719095-r143664658-Pizzeria_Ristorante_Gaston-Merano_Province_of_South_Tyrol_Trentino_Alto_Adige.html
South Tyrol though :hmm:
On my only trip to Italy (where we had the legendary Cortina Languish meet-up), we drove into the country after landing in Frankfurt, so our first stop was in South Tyrol. I thought it was a wonderful part of the country (though I was initially thrown by the bilingual Italian-German signs).
I didn't have any pineapple, but my very first experience with pizza in Italy was a speck pizza in South Tyrol. :mmm:
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 12, 2021, 11:56:04 AM
We are talking about Scotland today. You might be aware of the separatist movement there at the moment.
I don't think it's linked. Scotland have always wanted England to lose games for decades - it pre-dates widespread support for independence. It's just geography and size.
From a Scottish perspective what's almost worse is that a lot of English people hope Scotland do well in tournaments - which is almost a little bit patronising :lol: But England don't really see Scotland as a major risk in a tournament so it's a bigger rivalry from Scotland than from England (a bit like Germany-England, I think - big in England, not important because in Germany because generally the English lose).
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 12, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
I'm hoping the Italians are in on the joke, that way all parties can have a laugh about a fairly innocent bit of trolling.
I think they are - at least some of them. I saw a photo of an Italian supporter at Wembley with a sign saying "stop putting pineapple on pizza" :D
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
Since when did Sweden have bananas? :huh:
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 12, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
Since when did Sweden have bananas? :huh:
In the old days there used to be a boat putting in at Malmø once a month, loaded full of bananas for the Swedes to eat. Now, with the existence of bridges and the European Union they have banana trucks arriving at least once a week if not even more frequently.
I'm going to stand up for pineapple on pizza. Though it's not my usual order, it's fine - good even. The sour-sweetness of the pineapple contrasts nicely with the overwhise salty and savoury taste of the pizza.
As pointed out the Italians will put just about anything on a pizza - so why not pineapple?
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Next up - why it's acceptable to eat pizza with a knife and fork.
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
I'm going to stand up for pineapple on pizza. Though it's not my usual order, it's fine - good even. The sour-sweetness of the pineapple contrasts nicely with the overwhise salty and savoury taste of the pizza.
As pointed out the Italians will put just about anything on a pizza - so why not pineapple?
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Next up - why it's acceptable to eat pizza with a knife and fork.
:(
Quote from: Jacob on July 12, 2021, 12:30:40 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 12, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
Since when did Sweden have bananas? :huh:
In the old days there used to be a boat putting in at Malmø once a month, loaded full of bananas for the Swedes to eat. Now, with the existence of bridges and the European Union they have banana trucks arriving at least once a week if not even more frequently.
Alright, lay on the sarcasm...but don't complain if I put poutine on a pizza with pineapple and call it American-Hawaiian pizza. :mad:
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
That's the first time I've heard about that. Did you have bananas on your Hawaii pizza?
Now, bananas and curry pizza, that is good shit.
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 12, 2021, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 12, 2021, 12:30:40 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 12, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
Since when did Sweden have bananas? :huh:
In the old days there used to be a boat putting in at Malmø once a month, loaded full of bananas for the Swedes to eat. Now, with the existence of bridges and the European Union they have banana trucks arriving at least once a week if not even more frequently.
Alright, lay on the sarcasm...but don't complain if I put poutine on a pizza with pineapple and call it American-Hawaiian pizza. :mad:
https://www.foodnetwork.ca/recipe/poutine-pizza/18017/
There ya go - just add pineapple.
Quote from: Threviel on July 12, 2021, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
Swedish Hawaiian Pizza ftw.
Pineapple AND banana.
That's the first time I've heard about that. Did you have bananas on your Hawaii pizza?
Now, bananas and curry pizza, that is good shit.
Yeah, in uppsala it seemed pretty standard that pizza places were all quite different to what I'm used to.
Much bigger than the norm. Flat but not textured like a Italian style pizza. And Hawaiian always had banana as standard. Which is odd but worked.
An important part of an Hawaiian pizza, and it's being totally overlook, is the ham.
Don't go putting pineapples over pepperoni.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 12, 2021, 12:52:55 PM
An important part of an Hawaiian pizza, and it's being totally overlook, is the ham.
Don't go putting pineapples over pepperoni.
I know ham is traditional (since pork is a common meat in polynesia) but why couldn't you put pineapple with pepperoni.
By the way, I will always remember the shock I felt when ordering a pepperoni pizza in italy. :o
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 12, 2021, 12:52:55 PM
An important part of an Hawaiian pizza, and it's being totally overlook, is the ham.
Don't go putting pineapples over pepperoni.
I know ham is traditional (since pork is a common meat in polynesia) but why couldn't you put pineapple with pepperoni.
By the way, I will always remember the shock I felt when ordering a pepperoni pizza in italy. :o
:hmm: I don't know.
Also, I would rather have a pizza in my poutine than poutine on my pizza.
You're all wrong and it doesn't belong on pizza - but it is funny :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 01:08:32 PM
You're all wrong and it doesn't belong on pizza - but it is funny :P
Have you ever tried it? :contract:
I'd feel bad about the pizza hijack, but the Euros are over so it seems acceptable...
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 01:08:32 PM
You're all wrong and it doesn't belong on pizza - but it is funny :P
Have you ever tried it? :contract:
Of course - it's not an exotic, hard-to-find delicacy :P
Edit: Also - through the sadness, glad this explanation of It's Coming Home still works :blush:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E57RHHcXEAMrFt6?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Also surprisingly decent despite sounding awful is "London pizza".
It has chips in it.
Wut? :blink:
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 02:04:15 PM
Also surprisingly decent despite sounding awful is "London pizza".
It has chips in it.
Did you just say something positive associated with "London"? :o
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 01:12:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 01:08:32 PM
You're all wrong and it doesn't belong on pizza - but it is funny :P
Have you ever tried it? :contract:
Of course - it's not an exotic, hard-to-find delicacy :P
Edit: Also - through the sadness, glad this explanation of It's Coming Home still works :blush:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E57RHHcXEAMrFt6?format=jpg&name=900x900)
If footy ever does come home, will England ever be the same again? :hmm:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 02:07:48 PM
Wut? :blink:
From google image search, looks to be a Northern abomination.
Marcus Rashford's made a statement:
https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1414672529717964807
Apparently the overwhelming majority of messages have been positive and supportive - the response in Withington is about a mural of him in his home town. It got defaced last night and then through the day the community have been covering up the bits that were defaced:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6HtOCLWUAIIeWr?format=jpg&name=medium)
Edit: Also Harry Kane's tweet about the abuse to those players couldn't be clearer from just a captain. Again I think it's embarassing how much these players had to do and call out because of the weakness of people in authority - including the FA and social media companies:
QuoteHarry Kane
@HKane
Three lads who were brilliant all summer had the courage to step up & take a pen when the stakes were high. They deserve support & backing not the vile racist abuse they've had since last night. If you abuse anyone on social media you're not an @England fan and we don't want you.
Edit: And Tyrone Mings has directly called out Priti Patel/the government on this:
QuoteTyrone Mings
@OfficialTM_3
You don't get to stoke the fire at the beginning of the tournament by labelling our anti-racism message as 'Gesture Politics' & then pretend to be disgusted when the very thing we're campaigning against, happens.
QuotePriti Patel
@pritipatel
I am disgusted that @England players who have given so much for our country this summer have been subject to vile racist abuse on social media.
It has no place in our country and I back the police to hold those responsible accountable.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 12, 2021, 11:54:55 AM
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g187860-d2719095-r143664658-Pizzeria_Ristorante_Gaston-Merano_Province_of_South_Tyrol_Trentino_Alto_Adige.html
South Tyrol though :hmm:
Worst place of "Italy" for pizzas. :contract:
:secret:
It's Austria in fact. :P
I don't normally watch the news but caught it today. Quite a nice contrast between the nationals coverage of people storming Wembley, abuse etc... And the local news talking about how great pickford is, interviewing his old pe teacher, etc...
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 02:08:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 02:04:15 PM
Also surprisingly decent despite sounding awful is "London pizza".
It has chips in it.
Did you just say something positive associated with "London"? :o
I mean, it's not something I'd usually order or anything. It's just not as bad as it sounds. When you think about it it's just potato, cheese and tomato :p
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
I don't normally watch the news but caught it today. Quite a nice contrast between the nationals coverage of people storming Wembley, abuse etc... And the local news talking about how great pickford is, interviewing his old pe teacher, etc...
Yeah - there was a montage on the BBC of PE teachers etc from home towns which was lovely.
Also interesting on Channel 4 news that they worked with an ethical data firm and found those three players got 2,000 abusive messsages. That is, on the one hand, an absolute torrent for those players to deal with - but also not that many (over 30 million people watched the game) and a proportion appears to come from bots/overseas (I can guess where) given the scale of coverage about it. In a way I would have thought it would be worse.
Although the Sun doing a supportive "We're all behind you" front page is just shameless <_<
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 12, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
If footy ever does come home, will England ever be the same again? :hmm:
I don't know. We used to think Bostonians were depressed assholes because the Red Sox were cursed. But then the Red Sox became un-cursed and yet Bostonians remained depressed assholes.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
I don't normally watch the news but caught it today. Quite a nice contrast between the nationals coverage of people storming Wembley, abuse etc... And the local news talking about how great pickford is, interviewing his old pe teacher, etc...
Yeah - there was a montage on the BBC of PE teachers etc from home towns which was lovely.
Also interesting on Channel 4 news that they worked with an ethical data firm and found those three players got 2,000 abusive messsages. That is, on the one hand, an absolute torrent for those players to deal with - but also not that many (over 30 million people watched the game) and a proportion appears to come from bots/overseas (I can guess where) given the scale of coverage about it. In a way I would have thought it would be worse.
Although the Sun doing a supportive "We're all behind you" front page is just shameless <_<
Well don't worry, it won't be long till they can all move on from racism.
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
I don't normally watch the news but caught it today. Quite a nice contrast between the nationals coverage of people storming Wembley, abuse etc... And the local news talking about how great pickford is, interviewing his old pe teacher, etc...
Yeah - there was a montage on the BBC of PE teachers etc from home towns which was lovely.
Also interesting on Channel 4 news that they worked with an ethical data firm and found those three players got 2,000 abusive messsages. That is, on the one hand, an absolute torrent for those players to deal with - but also not that many (over 30 million people watched the game) and a proportion appears to come from bots/overseas (I can guess where) given the scale of coverage about it. In a way I would have thought it would be worse.
Although the Sun doing a supportive "We're all behind you" front page is just shameless <_<
Well don't worry, it won't be long till they can all move on from racism.
Phew. That's a relief.
Now we can get back to real issues like trans people needing to pee.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 12, 2021, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 12, 2021, 11:54:55 AM
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g187860-d2719095-r143664658-Pizzeria_Ristorante_Gaston-Merano_Province_of_South_Tyrol_Trentino_Alto_Adige.html
South Tyrol though :hmm:
Worst place of "Italy" for pizzas. :contract:
:secret:
It's Austria in fact. :P
:ultra: :ultra:
L.
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
Well don't worry, it won't be long till they can all move on from racism.
I've no doubt that's what the right-wing press and many in government would like to imagine. But I think they are, yet again, understimating this "suspiciously" eloquent group of young generally working class men - both black players and their team-mates. I think that's going to be a mistake.
I guess the unsung hero here is whoever led the push for academies to offer decent schooling alongside football.
I used to know a guy who as a teen had been part of man utds youth setup. He had thought he had made it and football was all he needed.
He was one of the bulk of kids who never get anywhere and are cut ar the end of the year. his life ended up a bit shit. Stuck in his home village with no qualifications and no prospects in life.
There's been a big push since the late noughties though to really account for the huge churn and make sure these kids even if they don't make it in football will still get a better education than they would have in the outside.
Really does seem to be sticking even with those who did make it.
I think that helps with the expression - but also this is the positive side of social media.
I did see a tweet by Barney Ronay saying that he wondered how old England players felt about this "most likeable" squad stuff. Lineker said that basically a lot of what they're doing and saying is stuff that was always the case - football's always been played by mainly working class kids who cared it's just they had to mediate everything through the media (our media) when the print media was dominant.
And it made me think of a thing I saw Ian Wright saying that the England camp had 2 barbers and if he'd had a haircut when he was an England player he'd be terrified that the headline the next day would be about how he's not focused on the game/why are the players worrying about their hair and not England etc. The media were an enemy - always looking to knock someone down, for a scapegoat and to pile on the pressure.
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
By the way, I will always remember the shock I felt when ordering a pepperoni pizza in italy. :o
:D
Quote from: Maladict on July 13, 2021, 12:42:19 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
By the way, I will always remember the shock I felt when ordering a pepperoni pizza in italy. :o
:D
True story.
Quote from: Pedrito on July 12, 2021, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 12, 2021, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 12, 2021, 11:54:55 AM
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g187860-d2719095-r143664658-Pizzeria_Ristorante_Gaston-Merano_Province_of_South_Tyrol_Trentino_Alto_Adige.html
South Tyrol though :hmm:
Worst place of "Italy" for pizzas. :contract:
:secret:
It's Austria in fact. :P
:ultra: :ultra:
L.
:lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
Well don't worry, it won't be long till they can all move on from racism.
I've no doubt that's what the right-wing press and many in government would like to imagine. But I think they are, yet again, understimating this "suspiciously" eloquent group of young generally working class men - both black players and their team-mates. I think that's going to be a mistake.
We now got an email at my work decrying this online abuse and recommitting to how are workplace is one with zero tolerance for bullying/harassment. :mellow:
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2021, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
Well don't worry, it won't be long till they can all move on from racism.
I've no doubt that's what the right-wing press and many in government would like to imagine. But I think they are, yet again, understimating this "suspiciously" eloquent group of young generally working class men - both black players and their team-mates. I think that's going to be a mistake.
We now got an email at my work decrying this online abuse and recommitting to how are workplace is one with zero tolerance for bullying/harassment. :mellow:
:huh: What does your workplace has to do with football?
Quote from: Tamas on July 13, 2021, 05:40:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2021, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
Well don't worry, it won't be long till they can all move on from racism.
I've no doubt that's what the right-wing press and many in government would like to imagine. But I think they are, yet again, understimating this "suspiciously" eloquent group of young generally working class men - both black players and their team-mates. I think that's going to be a mistake.
We now got an email at my work decrying this online abuse and recommitting to how are workplace is one with zero tolerance for bullying/harassment. :mellow:
:huh: What does your workplace has to do with football?
Right? It was all very cringe and like wtf, do I have to be reminded of my race everywhere?
Addressed to you personally? Or just a blanket email?
On odd email stuff, the bank my company uses now shows preferred pronouns as a automatic footer on the email. Not context just her/she/they at the bottom before the signature.
Quote from: HVC on July 13, 2021, 06:55:04 AM
Addressed to you personally? Or just a blanket email?
On odd email stuff, the bank my company uses now shows preferred pronouns as a automatic footer on the email. Not context just her/she/they at the bottom before the signature.
Chat to senior staff and blanket email.
Oh and we also have preferred pronouns in our signatures.
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2021, 06:58:41 AM
Oh and we also have preferred pronouns in our signatures.
It's like... if genders and thus pronouns are just social constructs and are equal, why is it such a big deal to avoid getting them wrong the first time? Lots of people are happy to guess my nationality and not one of them have got it right the first time, but neither them nor I mind the attempt.
I guess it's something it would have been useful to have even if there was no such thing as transgender and binary folks.
Many a time I've ran into a male Lindsey or been completely confused whether a Jo was a man or a woman or the like.
I guess those people get sick of hearing the same mistakes constantly.
I've been misgendered because of my first name plenty of times and it's quite annoying.
Quote from: Syt on July 13, 2021, 08:54:08 AM
I've been misgendered because of my first name plenty of times and it's quite annoying.
While I sympathize with you and and while the annoyance of being misgendered is real and legitimate, I find the image of someone meeting you for the first time expecting a a dainty book-keeping lady and instead meeting a big bald metalhead pretty delicious.
Fair enough, but isn't being bothered by the mis-gendering is the intolerant position? If genders are not "only" equal but the matter of free (and sometimes changing) choice, then there is no reason to be bothered by the occasional mistake.
Totally agree with this Olusoga piece on the England team - and as someone who is in their early-to-mid thirties in reasonably central London my England looks a lot more like this team than Johnson's/the culture war's England. Separately Number 10 have apparently decided not to hold a reception for the team (presumably because it's now seen as potentially risky given the majestic site of a footballer going in studs up on the Home Secretary :lol: :wub:) and Guto Harri who is a host on GB News and was formerly Johnson's spin doctor in City Hall said he now "gets" why the players take a knee having seen the abuse they've received, so he took a knee on his show this morning (which was a little awkward):
QuoteThe England team have exposed the lie of the government's culture war
Boris Johnson and his cabinet present race and class as binary opposites but England's footballers are as committed to tackling poverty as racism.
By
David Olusoga
(https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropped_article_image/public/blogs_2021/07/gettyimages-1326247607.jpg?itok=eBsytq57&c=22cd0c9dc48b66ac0a35afaf1625f452)
Bukayo Saka of England takes a knee in support of the Black Lives Matter Movement before the England vs. Germany game.
Watching England's journey through the Euros and then witnessing the sickening torrent of racism that, within minutes of Sunday's final, was directed against the players reminds me of George Orwell's description of England as a nation in which "the young are generally thwarted". In the same wartime essay, "The Lion and the Unicorn" (1941), Orwell described England as "a family with the wrong members in control", but wrote that it somehow, despite its dysfunction, remains "a family" with "its private language and its common memories".
Orwell's belief that at times of peril there were forms of English patriotism behind which the whole nation – despite deep inequality and structural unfairness – could unite is being sorely tested. Five years after the Brexit vote there now exist mutant strains of English nationalism, so toxic to those north of the border that they could well bring about the end of the 314-year-old Union. Those same forms of Englishness have, it appears, become so corrosive that they are tearing apart England itself.
In the England and the Britain of 2021 the wrong people remain very much in charge but for a few brief weeks the young – or at least one group of young men – have not been thwarted in their efforts to put forward an alternative vision of Englishness and English patriotism.
Sport, by its nature, excludes the old and places the young centre stage. Politicians, journalists, academics and business leaders, the groups that usually keep a firm hold of the microphone in our defective national conversations, tend to be people in their late thirties to mid sixties. After the 2019 general election the average age of an MP was 51. The average age of this England football team is 25.
For the past four weeks we have heard their voices as they made engagement with their moral priorities part of the England football experience. If their voices and the issues they highlight sound unfamiliar to some it is because we are unused to hearing their generation unmediated. Yet this team is what Britain in its twenties – rather than its forties or its fifties – actually looks and sounds like.
This England team are more diverse and more opposed to intolerance than their parents' or their grandparents' generation – and in that they are the perfect representatives of their generation. They should be understood not as "woke" fanatics, as the government would like to paint them, but as a sneak preview of the coming England, the part of the nation that is now at school. That England, by some projections, will by the middle of the century be around one-third black and minority ethnic.
Yet part of the government's frustration with Gareth Southgate's team is that the players, their activism and their backstories, risk exposing the false dichotomy that underpins the right's culture war. Key to this has been a concerted campaign to present race and class as binary opposites, suggesting that addressing one means neglecting the other. To support anti-racism, so the argument goes, is to abandon the so-called "white working class".
Southgate's team are racially diverse: their families have deep links to Ireland, Nigeria, Jamaica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Trinidad and Tobago. The New Statesman columnist Jonathan Liew has calculated that 13 members of the 26-man squad could, in theory, have played their football for those other nations. But their backstories also explode the lie of the class vs race dichotomy.
England's players grew up in places such as Sunderland, Sheffield, Barnsley, Manchester and Bury. Averaging 25 today, they were around 11 during the 2007-08 financial crisis and came of age in the midst of the austerity imposed by David Cameron and George Osborne. Whether their parents or grandparents came from Kingston, Jamaica or Kingston upon Hull they are young, working-class men with skin in the game of poverty, from families and communities for whom political decisions have consequences. In this respect, they could not be more different from most cabinet ministers (the majority of whom were privately educated). Their working-class childhoods mean they are as committed to fighting poverty as racism, with Marcus Rashford exemplifying that instinctive dualism.
The government's refusal to denounce the minority of England fans who, in the early stages of this tournament, booed their own players was motivated by standard culture-war calculus. Focusing on the team's anti-racism, and seeking to portray taking the knee as a divisive symptom of political extremism or even (ridiculously, given this is a team of young millionaires) rampant Marxism, was intended to direct attention towards race and away from class and poverty – and the fact that this team fight against both.
Yet a government so skilled at scapegoating and demonisation (if little else) has struggled against Southgate's players. With each victory the decision to stir divisions between the team and sections of its fanbase became more politically damaging. Hence the pantomime of ministers being bundled by aides into newly purchased England jerseys, for a series of embarrassingly misjudged photo opportunities.
Most preposterous of all was Boris Johnson, bursting out of his replica England shirt, his office shirt and tie bulging underneath. He looked about as convincing a football supporter as David Cameron did in 2015 when he couldn't remember whether the team he was pretending to support was West Ham or Aston Villa.
Having regarded the tournament as a culture war opportunity and having failed to stand up for England's players, Johnson's government has no moral authority in the urgent debate about racism and Englishness that followed the team's defeat by Italy. In football, authenticity – an attribute alien to this Prime Minister – is everything. A real leader would not have looked upon the England team as a pawn to be exploited, but as a portent of the country's future from which lessons could be learned.
David Olusoga is a historian, writer and broadcaster, and a professor of public history at the University of Manchester.
Also this is a lovely reflection on the England team in the context of their predecessors - I was not aware how many Irish links their with the 66 side or that Nobby Stiles had gone to mass and confession so was in a state of grace for the Germany game. But also interesting there's the class and geographic spread of this team - linked to the Olusoga point is that these are voices that are not represented in our fiercely privately educated media (worst offender: The Guardian :blush: :ph34r:) and politics, voices from South Manchester, or Brent, or a guy from Sunderland speaking out for queer fans which does rather betray the lie that all of these issues are some middle/media class London obsession:
https://unherd.com/2021/07/how-england-and-ireland-made-the-three-lions/
Meanwhile the Rashford mural has been restored but still lots of messages of support and admiration going up:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6KtVTPXsAYyeIo?format=jpg&name=small)
QuoteWhile I sympathize with you and and while the annoyance of being misgendered is real and legitimate, I find the image of someone meeting you for the first time expecting a a dainty book-keeping lady and instead meeting a big bald metalhead pretty delicious.
:lol: Yes.
Quote from: Tamas on July 13, 2021, 09:31:22 AM
Fair enough, but isn't being bothered by the mis-gendering is the intolerant position? If genders are not "only" equal but the matter of free (and sometimes changing) choice, then there is no reason to be bothered by the occasional mistake.
Gender is not a "matter of free choice", but a matter of deeply felt identity. Some people are confused about their identity, for a variety of reasons, so decent people give them space to figure it out and support them while they do it. Other people are not confused, but are dealing with a society (and/ or internalized pressures) that makes it a challenge to openly live according to their identity.
In all cases, it's kind of a dick move deliberately misgender someone. In many cases it can be frustrating to continually be misidentified, especially if the situation is one that is already fraught for you. It is not intolerant to be frustrated by being continually mislabelled.
Sheilbh, you are doing an excellent job representing the things worth respecting about England and the English team :cheers:
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 09:58:22 AM
Sheilbh, you are doing an excellent job representing the things worth respecting about England and the English team :cheers:
:lol: Cheers :blush:
And to be clear I'm no way distancing England from the behaviour of fans at Wembley - especially it seems people without tickets (and as I say very coked up - I think we need a bit of national reflection/discussion on the role of coke in our society because it is really common now and I think it is linked to some of the issues we saw), or from the racist abuse. That is also England. It may be a minority, but that doesn't matter because in a crowd of 60,000, 1,000 is a minority but it's still a lot of people and if you're feeling the threat or abuse from them it's a lot. I dont really think it makes sense to say "they are not real England fans", unless you're Harry Kane actively rejecting them as the team captain - because they clearly are Engalnd fans.
But I think it is also super-important to acknowledge that the people on the receiving end of that behaviour and abuse are pushing back and that there is a lot of support for them - and that the team looks more like young England (1/3 of kids in primary school are either from a minority or mixed race background) than the people abusing them do. This isn't the most diverse English team (I think teams in the 90s had more black players) but I think it is the most vocal on this and, again, I think that is generational - and this is the generation that are coming. I think it's easy to focus on that one story of the abuse and racism because it fits other narratives, but that's less accurate and less true. An example is that I read a piece from the US today on this which noted that English fans booed taking the knee - which is true. But I think you also need to add that other English fans cheer it to drown out the booers - which is also true :lol:
And amid all the nonsesne accusations of the players being cultural Marxists (:lol:), I have become a little bit Marxist on this in that I think there is a sort of dialectic and struggle going on over nationhood and identity in England. This may be because England is in some ways a very young nation - it was subsumed into British identity for centuries so Britain = England (look at pictures of 66: the crowd are flying union flags); it may just be a consequence of politicians using cultural issues as dividing lines; it may be generational. But I think it's too easy to just look at one side - both are true and active right now and it maybe is less of a culture war than a culture struggle.
So this week the racists have been out in force - so have the anti-racists and the "not racists".
Edit: And incidentally I think taking the knee probably would have stopped this season in the Premier League - Wilf Zaha had already done a very eloquent explanation of why he was no longer taking the knee (he wanted to "stand up to racism" was part of it). But I think there's no way it stops now and if anything I think Premier League teams will be looking for more ways to make their stance clear.
Quote from: Barrister on July 13, 2021, 01:05:51 AM
Quote from: Maladict on July 13, 2021, 12:42:19 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
By the way, I will always remember the shock I felt when ordering a pepperoni pizza in italy. :o
:D
True story.
I actually got confused the other way round, way back when the American pizza chains opened and pepperoni pizza became a thing.
If you want to vote for the best goal of the tournament, you can do so here: https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/news/026b-12bee5573e30-07a21f6d1f12-1000--vote-for-goal-of-the-tournament/?iv=true
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6H3jHGWYAEpM_Y?format=jpg&name=medium)
More real Euro 2020/21 news. :lol:
:lol:
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 09:38:19 AM
Gender is not a "matter of free choice", but a matter of deeply felt identity.
This is a statement of ideological-religious faith, not of reason.
Yeah that sentence confuses me. I thought gender was this socially constructed thing, surely for something like that you do have a choice as to how seriously you identify with it.
But I don't know, these things are weird.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 13, 2021, 02:33:37 PM
This is a statement of ideological-religious faith, not of reason.
Okie-dokie.
What would you say gender is if not a deeply felt identity? Is it a biological truth? Or, as Tamas suggested, a simple choice?
That The National cover is glorious :lol:
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Okie-dokie.
What would you say gender is if not a deeply felt identity? Is it a biological truth? Or, as Tamas suggested, a simple choice?
I'll try to give you an answer after I play some golf.
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 02:39:53 PM
Yeah that sentence confuses me. I thought gender was this socially constructed thing, surely for something like that you do have a choice as to how seriously you identify with it.
But I don't know, these things are weird.
I'm not setting myself out to be an expert here, just stating my understanding. That said:
"Socially constructed" != "simple choice" or "trivial".
I mean, being an American is socially constructed, being a member of a First Nations tribe is socially constructed, being a Christian is a social construct, race is a social construct. All identities are essentially socially constructed. That doesn't mean they are not deeply felt or important, rather the opposite as history and human interactions show. I mean, I assume the fact that you're American, that you're white, that you're a man, that you're Texan, that you're married, that you're not a racist, and that you're an engineer are all pretty important to you in various ways even if they're all social constructs.
The challenge facing transgender individuals is that their sense of their gender does not align with the traditional view of society at large. In the past, typically, that resulted in society imposing its sense on trans people with a variety of different outcomes as a result (and typically not pleasant ones for the trans individuals in question). There may have been degrees of choice involved in some of those identities, but for others I'd expect there's not as much choice.
I mean, next time you see a trans friend or acquaintance you could ask them how much of a choice they feel their gender is, vs something that is core to their identity (assuming you can find a decent way to ask). When I say gender is a deeply held identity as opposed to a simple choice people can make according to random whim, I'm reflecting what I've learned from trans people. I could've missed something along the way.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 13, 2021, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Okie-dokie.
What would you say gender is if not a deeply felt identity? Is it a biological truth? Or, as Tamas suggested, a simple choice?
I'll try to give you an answer after I play some golf.
I would also prioritize playing golf over having this languish discussion :cheers:
(but I'm still interested in your answer)
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 02:39:53 PM
Yeah that sentence confuses me. I thought gender was this socially constructed thing, surely for something like that you do have a choice as to how seriously you identify with it.
But I don't know, these things are weird.
I'm not setting myself out to be an expert here, just stating my understanding. That said:
"Socially constructed" != "simple choice" or "trivial".
I don't recall saying those words. Just that your relationship with it probably varies from person to person a bit.
QuoteI mean, being an American is socially constructed, being a member of a First Nations tribe is socially constructed, being a Christian is a social construct, race is a social construct. All identities are essentially socially constructed. That doesn't mean they are not deeply felt or important, rather the opposite as history and human interactions show. I mean, I assume the fact that you're American, that you're white, that you're a man, that you're Texan, that you're married, that you're not a racist, and that you're an engineer are all pretty important to you in various ways even if they're all social constructs.
Absolutely and I would say exactly the same. I am many many different things and many different identities. I feel like I do have a choice which of those things I tightly grasp onto emotionally and which ones I don't. But ultimately society has assigned to me most of those things. You have things that just are assigned to you and you just kind of have to live with it vs things you strongly choose for yourself.
Like society says I am a Cancer because of my birthday, and I don't deny that I, in fact, am one. But I don't really care that I am. It is just a thing. Others may really take that astrology identity really seriously.
QuoteThe challenge facing transgender individuals is that their sense of their gender does not align with the traditional view of society at large. In the past, typically, that resulted in society imposing its sense on trans people with a variety of different outcomes as a result (and typically not pleasant ones for the trans individuals in question). There may have been degrees of choice involved in some of those identities, but for others I'd expect there's not as much choice.
Yes I don't live under a rock. it is a choice though how much meaning you take from that.
QuoteI mean, next time you see a trans friend or acquaintance you could ask them how much of a choice they feel their gender is, vs something that is core to their identity (assuming you can find a decent way to ask). When I say gender is a deeply held identity as opposed to a simple choice people can make according to random whim, I'm reflecting what I've learned from trans people. I could've missed something along the way.
I would presume that different trans people have different relationships with it. Some it might just be something they have to deal with, like hey I am trans/genderfluid/whatever and that is just the way it is. Others it might be a central part of who they are. I don't think for everybody it is a deeply felt identity, though obviously once you are persecuted for something it often changes your relationship with it.
Edit: Probably why things like cults and nationalists and various groups like to cultivate a feeling of persecution because they know it will intensify that identity for their members.
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 04:00:35 PM
I don't recall saying those words. Just that your relationship with it probably varies from person to person a bit.
Didn't mean to suggest you were.
QuoteAbsolutely and I would say exactly the same. I am many many different things and many different identities. I feel like I do have a choice which of those things I tightly grasp onto emotionally and which ones I don't. But ultimately society has assigned to me most of those things. You have things that just are assigned to you and you just kind of have to live with it vs things you strongly choose for yourself.
Like society says I am a Cancer because of my birthday, and I don't deny that I, in fact, am one. But I don't really care that I am. It is just a thing. Others may really take that astrology identity really seriously.
Exactly.
Gender is one of those things that society just assigns to you generally. It's not trivial (like your star sign), and it influences the major outlines of your life and how you interact with people on basically a minute to minute basis. If you disagree with that on a fundamntal level it's potentially going to be tough for you (and if you mildly disagree, then I suspect you might "just kind of live with it" because it may not be worth the battle).
QuoteYes I don't live under a rock. it is a choice though how much meaning you take from that.
I know you don't live under a rock :hug: - just trying to lay out the complete line of my thinking including stuff that's probably pretty obvious.
I do think there's a limited range of choice with how much meaning you take from gender when weighed against what society's expectations are and your own sense is on the matter. I mean, obviously there are a number of people who don't feel particularly attached to either gender and so on, but I question how much it's a choice.
I guess to me "it's a choice" sounds about the same as saying "being gay is a choice" or "being straight is a choice" which I don't think matches most people's experiences.
QuoteI would presume that different trans people have different relationships with it. Some it might just be something they have to deal with, like hey I am trans/genderfluid/whatever and that is just the way it is. Others it might be a central part of who they are. I don't think for everybody it is a deeply felt identity, though obviously once you are persecuted for something it often changes your relationship with it.
Maybe the issue is that the meanings we assign to "deeply felt identity" doesn't match up. I'd expect that for the average person, their gender identity is deeply held (but probably rarely examined). I mean it's who we are. Most of us wouldn't particularly take to having our gender self-identification questioned in a serious way (joking is another matter, of course), whether it's cis, trans, or fluid.
Quote from: Tamas on July 13, 2021, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2021, 06:58:41 AM
Oh and we also have preferred pronouns in our signatures.
It's like... if genders and thus pronouns are just social constructs and are equal, why is it such a big deal to avoid getting them wrong the first time? Lots of people are happy to guess my nationality and not one of them have got it right the first time, but neither them nor I mind the attempt.
I think we forgot the art of letting things slide, especially when slights are entirely innocent. People misspell my first name in six different ways. Many people by the middle of my second sentence ask me where I'm from. The world is going to be a very tiresome place if conflicts are to be avoided entirely by the people doing the talking, with unlimited right to be offended on the part of the listener.
Quote from: DGuller on July 13, 2021, 08:58:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 13, 2021, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2021, 06:58:41 AM
Oh and we also have preferred pronouns in our signatures.
It's like... if genders and thus pronouns are just social constructs and are equal, why is it such a big deal to avoid getting them wrong the first time? Lots of people are happy to guess my nationality and not one of them have got it right the first time, but neither them nor I mind the attempt.
I think we forgot the art of letting things slide, especially when slights are entirely innocent. People misspell my first name in six different ways. Many people by the middle of my second sentence ask me where I'm from. The world is going to be a very tiresome place if conflicts are to be avoided entirely by the people doing the talking, with unlimited right to be offended on the part of the listener.
That's a lot from some people putting pronouns in their email signatures.
Also interesting how my post about cringe statement at work on race, led to the Languish anti-trans brigade showing up.
Quote from: DGuller on July 13, 2021, 08:58:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 13, 2021, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2021, 06:58:41 AM
Oh and we also have preferred pronouns in our signatures.
It's like... if genders and thus pronouns are just social constructs and are equal, why is it such a big deal to avoid getting them wrong the first time? Lots of people are happy to guess my nationality and not one of them have got it right the first time, but neither them nor I mind the attempt.
I think we forgot the art of letting things slide, especially when slights are entirely innocent. People misspell my first name in six different ways. Many people by the middle of my second sentence ask me where I'm from. The world is going to be a very tiresome place if conflicts are to be avoided entirely by the people doing the talking, with unlimited right to be offended on the part of the listener.
Most people do let it slide though?
You see the transphobes posting videos of trans dick heads freaking out over being misgendered but for most it's not the end of the world and something to be simply corrected - it's only once you continue to call them a man after they've said they're women that the arse holery starts.
As I say with email it sounds logical completely independent of trans people existing.
Afterall if you get an email from Patricia Jones then does it really matter whether she looks obviously super feminine or is a very impassable trans woman? - obviously a woman from the name either way. In our land of remote working it's possible you never run into her in person at all.
At my work is an Indian woman with a name I'd normally firmly associate as being a man's name. For the longest time I didn't put together that this woman I'd seen around the office was the "guy" popping up in occasional email chains.
And if I had a penny for the number of times in Switzerland people referred to me by a vaguely similar sounding first name...
Wrong thread to debate all things not related to the Euro 2020/2021 anyways. Not even linked to football in general.
*Deletes draft post of Euro 2020 footballers as ACW generals*
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 14, 2021, 09:50:22 AM
*Deletes draft post of Euro 2020 footballers as ACW generals*
:lol:
Saka being held by Chiellini instantly reminded me of Pikett's charge and there's no way you'll convince me that there's no clear historic parallel. :sleep:
Quote from: Jacob on July 14, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 14, 2021, 09:50:22 AM
*Deletes draft post of Euro 2020 footballers as ACW generals*
:lol:
I was expecting an English Civil War hijack but since Brits are hopelessly americanised, 51st State etc., you can't even rely on them anymore for British stuff. :thumbsdown:
This is what I get on my FB feed from Italians:
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/216218577_4490733124284830_6401599279886674656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=n1j9da-F7toAX9MRwf8&_nc_oc=AQlweCjNbvrSgOLK_Cy4Lq_Jp4-uvHGYAiOuWBDGeKjCDTwu2PrA4Mw_r8eryWVWvE7LvptELVVY7nd4IK57wSOn&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=a7fffd62f185d22f4ec88e78bfae3c4f&oe=60F433A4)
QuoteSauce: unknown.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/14/ticketless-fans-actions-at-wembley-terrifying-say-disabled-fans
Apparently a lot of England "fans" tried to get through the disabled entrances, at least one of them trying to grab the wheelchairs of one of the visitors to gain entry by "escorting them" but even worse there seem to had been a proper fight around the disabled visitors between the ticketless scum and the stewards.
One of the involved also mentioned it took him proving with photos that previous matches had plenty of unused disabled seating at Wembley before UEFA changed their "no tickets left" line to him and he could get a ticket for himself and his 15 years old son with cerebral palsy. I guess they were worried the camera might get sight of them while zooming in on an attractive female or something.
Thinking back on this Euro, I think my biggest take away is that the English team might not be a total joke anymore. They might actually be one of the big boys to be taken seriously. But the possibility still exists this was just a Cinderella run we sometimes get like Greece in 2004. I guess Qatar will ultimately prove that one way or the other.
I don't quite understand there. Disabled people were able to pay at the gate and some gits were trying to exploit this?
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 14, 2021, 09:50:22 AM
*Deletes draft post of Euro 2020 footballers as ACW generals*
Well in both cases the winning sides war blue...
And Southgate not only has South in his name but also lost...
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/216274308_10158173551572647_2760917524437278328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0TdsUbfszb8AX9Je-vs&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=99c0836da85c3f4eb69d771c8db4f715&oe=60F386EC)
No.
Quote from: Tyr on July 14, 2021, 01:04:52 PM
I don't quite understand there. Disabled people were able to pay at the gate and some gits were trying to exploit this?
No. disabled people with tickets had separate entrances. Some of the scum thought those gates were easier targets since probably they had fewer barriers and obstacles.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 14, 2021, 01:40:11 PM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/216274308_10158173551572647_2760917524437278328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0TdsUbfszb8AX9Je-vs&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=99c0836da85c3f4eb69d771c8db4f715&oe=60F386EC)
Absolutely right!
Quote from: Valmy on July 14, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
Thinking back on this Euro, I think my biggest take away is that the English team might not be a total joke anymore. They might actually be one of the big boys to be taken seriously. But the possibility still exists this was just a Cinderella run we sometimes get like Greece in 2004. I guess Qatar will ultimately prove that one way or the other.
England made it to a World Cup semifinal in 2018. Got to a final this year and played a superior Italy to penalties. They are absolutely a serious team that should be considered among the favorites next year. I don't know how you can look at their recent form in international tournaments and think otherwise.
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 14, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 14, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
Thinking back on this Euro, I think my biggest take away is that the English team might not be a total joke anymore. They might actually be one of the big boys to be taken seriously. But the possibility still exists this was just a Cinderella run we sometimes get like Greece in 2004. I guess Qatar will ultimately prove that one way or the other.
England made it to a World Cup semifinal in 2018. Got to a final this year and played a superior Italy to penalties. They are absolutely a serious team that should be considered among the favorites next year. I don't know how you can look at their recent form in international tournaments and think otherwise.
The history prior to 2018 left a deep stench of failure. It takes awhile to wash that off.
Quote from: Valmy on July 14, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
The history prior to 2018 left a deep stench of failure. It takes awhile to wash that off.
I think that's partly why Southgate is so popular - he has achieved with a less talented squad. And they may not be superb, or win anything, but they seem to play as a team.
And after a generation of watching Rooney and Lampard and Gerrard do very well in the Premier League and the Champions League but then seemingly forget how to play football as soon as they pull on an England shirt it is very refreshing to see.
Just to add to Tamas's comments - yeah the break in of fans mainly happened in the disabled and VIP areas because those are the bits of Wembley that you reach first from Wembley Way. So Harry Maguire's father was injured by these ticketless forcing their way in and jostling, other family members of the players were racially abused. And all of this happened beneath the press box (which makes the initial denials by the FA all the more baffling). It is simultaneously worse than I think people realise and could have been so much worse. The Athletic have been outstanding on this.
A general piece on the day:
https://theathletic.com/2703455/2021/07/13/english-footballs-day-of-embarrassment-and-why-it-has-damaged-2030-world-cup-bid/
And a piece from a woman's perspective by Caoimhe O'Neill (one of their Liverpool writers):
https://theathletic.com/2704711/2021/07/15/this-is-what-you-endure-watching-england-as-a-woman-misogyny-sexism-and-the-constant-fear-of-being-touched-without-consent/
In this context I'd note the announcement that Met Commissioner Cressida Dick (after a litany of failures that should have ended her career from the shooting of de Menezes onwards) is to become Dame Cressida Dick. And the Met issued this statement which is just extraordinary:
QuoteLATEST: Statement - Policing of Euro 2020 final
News • Jul 14, 2021 16:09 BST
Statement from Deputy Assistant Commissioner Jane Connors, following security incident at Wembley Stadium during Euro 2020 final:
"On Sunday, for the first time in more than 50 years, England had qualified for the final of a major international football tournament. This was meant to be a day of national pride, full of jubilance and celebration.
"In the main, the day was exactly that. However, it was sadly tarnished by a minority of disorderly and violent fans who attempted to hijack the final for their own selfish personal gain. Throughout the course of the day, police officers witnessed disgraceful behaviour both in central London and at Wembley, where a number of people pushed through security cordons or fought with police officers.
"I share the nation's anger at this behaviour. I want to reiterate the Met's commitment to identifying those responsible for the scenes both in Wembley and in central London, their actions will have consequences.
"Ahead of the final, police commanders deployed one of the most significant and comprehensive policing plans the Met has ever committed to a football match of this scale. In Wembley, soon into the day it became clear that a high number of fans were arriving without tickets.
"Police commanders recognised this could result in ticketless fans attempting to get into the stadium, they updated security officials at Wembley of this risk. To support the stewarding efforts, further highly trained public order officers were deployed to Wembley Stadium as a precaution.
"Soon after gates opened, the stewarding and outer security perimeter became overwhelmed and fans began pushing through security checks. I want to praise the quick response by police commanders and those brave officers who confronted these subsequent scenes of disorder and violence.
"I am in no doubt that their swift action prevented any further escalation. Frustratingly, 19 of our officers were injured during the course of Sunday's policing operation when confronting volatile crowds.
"I do not accept that the policing operation failed and I standby the difficult decisions made by police officers and the Met's public order commanders. Without their immediate intervention, it is possible that this game could have been abandoned.
"The ugly scenes at Wembley on Sunday night will rightly be reviewed by the Football Association and by police. Where lessons can be learnt we will work with partners to ensure that future matches are not disrupted by a group of hooligans who are fueled on alcohol."
+ As part of the policing operation for the Euro 2020 final, 51 people were arrested across London; 26 of those were arrested while policing events in Wembley, with 25 arrests following events in central London. As part of the post-incident investigation, we expect further arrests to follow in the days and weeks ahead.
This is a minor point - but it is bullshit that they were "fueled on alcohol". But separately it is just extraordinary that they're still saying that they had a plan in place and it worked and thanks to them everything was not as bad as it could be. "I do not accept that the policing operation failed" :blink: :bleeding:
I've said it before - but I really think when it comes to public order policing the Met basically only crack-down if they think they won't be faced with violence which I'm really not sure is necessarily the best way to police that sort of event.
Looks like both of those articles are for subscribers only Sheilbh.
Quote from: Jacob on July 15, 2021, 11:38:11 AM
Looks like both of those articles are for subscribers only Sheilbh.
You can register an account and get, I think, 3 free articles per month at The Athletic.
The Athletic is the only news source I've ever paid for - it really is quite good if you're a sports fan.
Yeah there is another very good story interviewing disabled fans about their experience.
Meanwhile in the Sun (from the Upshot newsletter):
QuoteFOOTBALL
🧨 Banged a load of powder
(https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/tM5GkHF-s9PohQdqQp3os04ozsg6O-uHbRECOxbve7TudwjfJ7TKmI6DlIhR9edYEYOTraRe0siiYig7Pi3Qt-DM563tO92aSt4tyuzn6Gv27BK76vNNtksgr1vZxIKAmQDZxcagjfcpkHhu9qI8A-Ae2MxuZg=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mcusercontent.com/5b3a0380100d0a826c937bcf4/images/45e364eb-cab3-b735-9784-26492bea2b25.jpg)
They say crime doesn't pay, but tell that to Charlie Perry. You may recognise him as the England fan with a flare up his bum and an ungodly amount of cocaine up his nose.
Now the 25-year-old roofer has trousered £11,000 in exchange for a tell-all interview with The Sun.
"I'd been on the piss since half eight in the morning and had had at least 20 cans of Strongbow," he told the red top, adding that he also "banged a load of powder" throughout the day.
It turns out Perry, who always wears a £545 Luis Vuitton bucket hat, is a veteran "gibber" - someone who breaks into stadiums without a ticket.
He snuck in at Wembley by bribing a fan £150 to let him "tailgate" them through the turnstiles, and then handed another £100 to a steward to smooth his entry.
In conclusion, he told the paper: "There were no rules that day. All I know is that I loved it all. I was off my face and I loved every minute. My mates and I had one of the best six weeks of our lives. See you in Qatar."
They're going to love him over there!
Apparently among gibbers Wembley has a reputation as a very soft-touch. There's lots of windows and not very well secured doors - so I think (he's a Chelsea fan) he's also broken into other Chelsea games at Wembley.
One other relevant factors - that I think may have been a mistake in retrospect - is for the entire tournament there were very few fan zones with the massive TV screens. I think this was because of covid - there's one in the Boxpark in Croydon, there was one for key workers in Trafalgar Square but the usual setup of having a big fanzone for thousands of fans in Hyde Park etc wasn't followed. I slightly wonder if it might have been a better option to open up loads of outdoor (ticketed) fanzones like we would in a normal tournament. It might help stop people congregating around Wembley but also reduce the numbers of people sat indoors in packed pubs watching the game? :hmm:
Total aside but looking up Charlie Perry gave me a blurb on this man who apparently converted to Islam in his 2nd year at Oxford. :hmm:
https://www.univ.ox.ac.uk/news/profile-charlie-perry/
(https://www.univ.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Charlie-Perry-not-social.jpg)
Reading that - how much he enjoyed Maths Week and the boys night during Wellness Week and the stuff about not drinking - and I think you've managed to find the other guy's polar opposite :lol:
I hereby award sole ownership of the Charlie Perry name to Garbon's fellow.
And I thought my namesake with his drunken night out pics showing up on google image search was bad
Rory Smith - the journalist I stole the cosplaying as England fans thought from has developed it in his newsletter - in the middle of three pieces that I entirely agree with.:
QuoteThis Is England
By Rory Smith
By the end of the day, the scrawl of abuse had been buried beneath an avalanche of sticky notes and hand-drawn flags, homemade banners and paper hearts. Affection and appreciation had so convincingly drowned out malice and hate that they had colonized the wall. Now, only the top half of the mural was still visible: the face of Marcus Rashford, rising above it all.
There is a line in "30 Rock," the Tina Fey sitcom, delivered when the two central characters are on a visit to Stone Mountain, Ga., searching for "someone who represents the 'Real America.'" "For the 80th time," Fey's character responds, "no part of America is more American than any other part."
That is the thing with countries: They are generally so vast and so contradictory and so complex that they defy easy encapsulation, essentially arbitrary edifices eroded and expanded by human hands, established in some distant past and bound together by little more than the delicate, malleable forces of convention and tradition. They are because, for as long as anyone cares to remember, they have always been.
They are big cities and small towns, suburban sprawl and empty expanse, gleaming towers and forgotten corners. They exist in tax codes and legal documents and in the distinct imaginations and experiences of the hundreds of thousands, the hundreds of millions, who live within them: some who have known nothing else, some who have only just arrived.
England is no different. England is the country that is represented and reflected by its national soccer team: diverse and modern, progressive and compassionate. It is also the country that, with the apparent support of some of its leading politicians, booed those very same players when they had the nerve to express their diversity and progressivism.
It is the country that racially abused three Black players when they missed penalties on the final day of the Euros, but it is also the country that showered all three with love and support in response. It is the country that fashioned the person who daubed abuse — of a nonracist nature, according to the police — on the mural of Rashford in south Manchester, near where he grew up. But it is also the country that, within a few hours, buried that abuse beneath all of those flags and hearts.
And, no matter how tempting it is to think otherwise, neither of those countries can lay exclusive claim to being the country. England is both of those places, and it is neither, it is far off and it is somewhere in between, just like everywhere else. It all hinges on the England that you see, that you feel. No part of it is any more real than any other part.
Cosplay Hooligans
I think about the contrast often. Five years ago, during the first week of Euro 2016, I arrived in Toulouse, France, to cover a game between Spain and the Czech Republic. The train got in with a few hours to spare. It was spitting with rain, and the stadium was some distance away, around a bend in the Garonne river. But I had never been to Toulouse before, so I decided to walk.
It took an hour, maybe a little more. The city was full of Spanish fans; it is not far from the border. In almost every little square, one corner had been draped in red and yellow, a bar or a café or a restaurant adopted by a group of fans. Most of them were drinking. Some of them were singing. But, dispersed through the city, it did not feel overpowering. Normal people went about their normal lives. The mood was cordial, calm and a little celebratory.
A few days later, I went to St. Etienne, an industrial town on the other side of France. England was playing Slovakia in its final group stage game. Outside the train station, in the first public space any new arrival to the city would see, there were thousands of England fans. They had stepped off the train, they had found a couple of Irish pubs, and they had set up camp.
The mood was not particularly aggressive. The atmosphere was not troublingly hostile. But, at the same time, it was abundantly clear that this territory had been claimed. The border was demarcated by England flags. It was a corner of a foreign field that would — if not forever, then certainly for the afternoon — be England.
There are certain things that England fans do that are, in my experience, unique. One of them is how they sing their national anthem. "God Save The Queen" is, by global standards, a pretty tame sort of a song. There are no calls to establish battalions, or mentions of impure blood. As the journalist Barney Ronay once suggested, in some lights it is little more than a dirge, pleading with "an entity that doesn't exist to preserve one that shouldn't."
And yet "God Save The Queen" is the only anthem, in a soccer context, that is sung at people. Most fans stand, solemnly, during their anthem. In some countries, it is tradition to put a hand on the heart, or at least where people think it is. Only England fans sing their anthem with their arms outstretched, as if issuing a challenge.
The other thing they do is what they did that afternoon in St. Etienne. It is only sometimes that England fans hurl patio furniture or start running battles with the police. But they reliably annex space, not blending into it in small, discreet groups, but claiming a whole swath of a foreign city as their own for a few hours.
It is a tradition that has survived a change in generations, a change in approach. The mood around most England games, on foreign soil, is now not one of full-fledged hooliganism. It is, if anything, more akin to a particularly raucous bachelor party. There is a lot of drinking. There are drugs: One favored chant, dating to at least Euro 2016, is an ode to cocaine. There is, more often than is probably required at a sporting event, nudity.
It would take a brighter mind than mine to parse why that might be. Perhaps it is no mystery: maybe that is just how people, generally, cut loose. Perhaps it is how young English men experience foreign countries: It is what you do when you see the Mediterranean sun. The problem there, of course, is that these problems do not occur with fans of Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland, even though they go on the same sorts of holidays to the same sorts of places.
So, perhaps, it is something to do with England: not the country, but the soccer team. There are some who are old enough to have been in Marseille in 1998 and Charleroi in 2000, the final throes of the old hooliganism, and who might still yearn for a little topless wander down a memory lane that has a water cannon parked at one end.
But there are many more who will have seen the videos and watched the footage and inferred that this is what it is to be an England fan, that this is how you earn your stripes and support your country, and have become, in effect, cosplay hooligans. England is a chance to claim space and go a little wild; that is their role, their patriotic duty. That is what it is to be England.
The Storm
The question, in hindsight, is a simple one: What, exactly, did the police think was going to happen? Fans had been arriving at the Wembley Park underground station all day, gathering in ever greater numbers in the shadow of the stadium. Some of them — 60,000 or so — had tickets. Twice that number, three times possibly, did not.
By the time the teams for the Euro 2020 final were announced on Sunday night, it had been estimated that some 250,000 people were in the vicinity of Wembley. All that separated them from the stadium was one set of barriers, a subtle police presence, a few hundred volunteers, and stewards who are paid little more than minimum wage. What happened next was, in one sense, shocking. In another, it really wasn't.
Hundreds, and possibly thousands, of ticketless fans tried to storm the gates. Others bribed stewards to let them through, or presented screenshots of other people's Covid tests, or barreled through turnstiles behind those who had paid to be there. The atmosphere, outside, turned threatening and hostile.
Once inside, they blocked gangways or packed aisles or simply stood in the nonspaces between seats. Genuine ticket-holders were displaced. Fights broke out. There have been accounts, over the last few days, of families who had paid hundreds of dollars to attend the biggest game England has seen for 55 years leaving early out of fear.
It is soccer's instinct, on these occasions, to try to distance itself from the people who have dragged its name into disrepute. They are not, the statements always go, true fans. That is, most likely, not true — you can be a cat burglar and an art lover; no one part of you is more real than the other — but even if it were, it is an irrelevance.
England, the country, is not easily defined. It is neither one place nor the other. It is both one place and the other. But England, the team, or at least the atmosphere surrounding it, is uniform. The numbers, this time, were greater, because of both the scale and the location of the game, but this was, to an extent, simply London experiencing what many other places have endured, the annexation of space and the bachelor-party lawlessness. It was England looking into a mirror and seeing itself.
It so easily could have been avoided. More police might not have solved the problem, but restricting access to the area around the stadium to those with tickets would have helped. So, too, would have placing more obstacles, more security checks, between the entrance and the crowd. The Metropolitan Police, without doubt, handled a difficult situation — a nation teetering on the brink of ecstasy after 15 months of lockdown and misery — badly.
That should not allow soccer to absolve itself from blame. A crowd of that size defies easy encapsulation. There were many, in the stadium and out on Wembley Way, who did nothing wrong, who simply wanted to go and enjoy the atmosphere, or the game, or both. But there were plenty — perhaps a minority, perhaps not — who invoked that stag-party spirit of England, the team, who assumed that the occasion meant anything goes.
That is an atmosphere that has been allowed to fester, a tradition that has been given tacit permission to take hold. Increasing policing is not the answer to that problem; or, at least, it is not a responsible answer to it. This one, ultimately, rests on the fans: on what they want England, the team, to be. As Sunday proved, at the moment, one part is much more real than the other, and it is not the part that you want.
Linked to those reminisces to a worse England 20-25 years ago is the reaction to the penalty takers. I also didn't like the commentator saying they were young and had time to "redeem" themselves, and part of it is, inevitably, a reaction against the equally inevitable racism. But I am struck at the overwhelming messages of solidarity, love, support for those players who missed their penalties. As I say it is a world away from Southgate who is still defined by his penalty miss in 96 and was vilified for it. Similarly I remember the period after the 98 World Cup when Beckham was the most hated man in the country (effigies were burned etc) because of his red card for kicking Diego Simeone.
I don't know if that's a shift in Englishness or if it's a shift in masculinity from the 90s but it is really striking and either way a positive thing.
It is dumb.
They are highly paid professionals sent out to do a difficult job with a lot of pressure. They failed. All indications are that they gave their best effort and there is no reason to make there lives miserable, and certainly no place for any sort of racial abuse. At the same time expressions of love and support are full of cringe.
I mean if the CEO of a company like Apple leads the organization to put out a series of shit iPhones or whatever and the company's value plummets, layoffs ensue, etc., there is no cause to cuss him out if you see him on the street. But grown adults sending him letters of love and solidarity would be really weird.
Quote from: alfred russel on July 16, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
I mean if the CEO of a company like Apple leads the organization to put out a series of shit iPhones or whatever and the company's value plummets, layoffs ensue, etc., there is no cause to cuss him out if you see him on the street. But grown adults sending him letters of love and solidarity would be really weird.
That was a mean thing to say about Barrister. :mad:
Quote from: alfred russel on July 16, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
They are highly paid professionals sent out to do a difficult job with a lot of pressure. They failed. All indications are that they gave their best effort and there is no reason to make there lives miserable, and certainly no place for any sort of racial abuse. At the same time expressions of love and support are full of cringe.
Maybe :lol: I am inclined to agree - I think the messages are good and necessary in the context of the racial abuse and also the history of players who "fail" in that way being scapegoated (Southgate, Beckham). And all perhaps say something about us as a nation or sports-following men at that time - so the Beckham effigy was him in a sarong as if his metrosexuality somehow played a role in sporting failure.
But I also wonder if the British valorisation/love of a heroic failure is possibly generally a bad thing in sport. I feel like they're probably now more popular/loved by the nation than they would be if they'd succeeded. I also slightly suspect that our love of eccentric men tinkering in sheds and producing useless machines is probably overall a negative thing because - in the same way as we downplay actually winning - we kind of love that rather than actually useful production.
QuoteI mean if the CEO of a company like Apple leads the organization to put out a series of shit iPhones or whatever and the company's value plummets, layoffs ensue, etc., there is no cause to cuss him out if you see him on the street. But grown adults sending him letters of love and solidarity would be really weird.
People don't care about (most) companies in the same way as they care about their football team.