Euro 2020/2021

[alfred russel]

Edit: I think the reason I have a visceral reaction to the Hungary praising is the combination of blowing it against the Germans when they should have won coupled with the non-the-less rejoicing and self congratulations by Orban and company. NO YOU BLEW IT YOU FUCKS YOU SHOULD BE MAD. Ah well.

I disagree they should have won. They are objectively the weaker side, Germany had 70% possession, twice the shots, and 6 times the corners. It is a 90 minute game and in that time they scored the same number of goals.

The sequence the goals were scored obviously built expectations and Hungary clearly were in a position to win, but they were fortunate to be in such a position. If they were to play again tomorrow my money would be on the Germans.

[Valmy]

Would you rather one win but you don't go through on GD or 3 draws and you do?

Well obviously the whole point is to go through, I admit I have seen a few three draw teams make it through as infuriating as that is

But Hungary had a loss so they couldn't draw. A draw was as good as a loss in that situation.

[Sheilbh]

Well obviously the whole point is to go through, I admit I have seen a few three draw teams make it through as infuriating as that is

Or worse, poor New Zealand in their first ever tournament, don't lose any games but still don't progress

But Hungary had a loss so they couldn't draw. A draw was as good as a loss in that situation.

Yeah but they were playing a very good Germany team.

I don't think the fact they were leading was fluke or luck - I think they'd clearly watched the Germany-Portugal game and worked out a way to not concede a shedload like Portugal which basically worked. Germany needed to change their approach and Hungary adapted and I feel really sorry for them because I think they played well, but in terms of maximising what you've got to get results - I genuinely think they've been the best team in the tournament

[Valmy]

Edit: I think the reason I have a visceral reaction to the Hungary praising is the combination of blowing it against the Germans when they should have won coupled with the non-the-less rejoicing and self congratulations by Orban and company. NO YOU BLEW IT YOU FUCKS YOU SHOULD BE MAD. Ah well.

I disagree they should have won. They are objectively the weaker side, Germany had 70% possession, twice the shots, and 6 times the corners. It is a 90 minute game and in that time they scored the same number of goals.

The sequence the goals were scored obviously built expectations and Hungary clearly were in a position to win, but they were fortunate to be in such a position. If they were to play again tomorrow my money would be on the Germans.

Well if they in fact played shitty and it was just blind luck they were where they were then all the more reason to not take pride in their performance.

But I disagree. Sure the Germans had possession but lots of teams win without dominating possession. That doesn't necessarily mean you are objectively the weaker team. It might just mean your style of play is different.

[Valmy]

I think they played well, but in terms of maximising what you've got to get results - I genuinely think they've been the best team in the tournament

Well I guess. When you haven't even been to the World Cup since the 1980s and advanced past the group stage in the Euro once since...um...er...*checks* 1972 you will probably take whatever you can get.

Still damn it I thought people were passionate about this sport. It seems so lame when they just shrug off such a devastating late goal like this. What am I even watching this stuff if that is all the angst and rage I get to see? If people don't care it isn't much fun for me. Good job *golf clap* 

[Sheilbh]

Oh for Hungary fans I'm sure it'll have been devastating to concede. But they'll probably still be proud that they gave a decent account of themselves against the current European champions, World Cup winners and Germany.

They weren't wildly outclassed and the players didn't give up. There's not much more you can ask for. Sometimes the odds are just too much - even if it is awful in the moment.

But I'm a neutral who's not particularly invested in Hungary - I just think they've played pretty well when I've seen them against really tough opposition. They were miles ahead of the teams who maybe did underwhelm like Turkey or Poland.

[Syt]

Not all draws are "just draws."

Going into the last match day of the 00/01 Bundesliga season, Schalke and Bayern were neck and neck. For Schalke to become champions they had to win their game, and Bayern needed to lose.

Schalke fell behind against Unterhaching, but came back, and eventually won their match 5-3.

A friend and I were in the stadium in Hamburg where Bayern were playing (we were huge Bayern fans at the time). When the stadium video screen announced that Schalke was leading 5-3, Hamburg scored against Bayern in the 90th. At that time Schalke thought they were champions. When their match ended, they were celebrating their championship ...

... only the match in Hamburg wasn't over. In overtime, a Hamburg player passed back to his goalie who picked up the ball - indirect freekick. Somehow, Patrick Andersson hammered the ball through the Hamburg defenders and into the goal.

The match ended shortly after 1-1, with Bayern being champions, and Schalke - "champions of the hearts" (because everyone hates Bayern) if you like them, or "5 minute champions" (if you mock them) - were devastated.

As a Bayern fan it was a bit of a rollercoaster

[alfred russel]

Well if they in fact played shitty and it was just blind luck they were where they were then all the more reason to not take pride in their performance.

But I disagree. Sure the Germans had possession but lots of teams win without dominating possession. That doesn't necessarily mean you are objectively the weaker team. It might just mean your style of play is different.

I know FIFA rankings are flawed but they are:

France: 2
Portugal: 5
Germany: 12
Hungary: 37

They gave a better than expected account of themselves.

By contrast the US is #20. By FIFA's measure at least the gulf between Germany and the US is less than the gulf between the US and Hungary. If we were in Hungary's spot I'd hope to get a win, but I surely wouldn't expect it.

[Josquius]

Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?

[Barrister]

Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?

Just based on World Cup results, 20th in the world sounds pretty reasonable for the US.

I just checked - Canada is 70th.  Oof.  Although we're actually having one of our best results in WC2022 qualifying - moving on to the last stage.

[Maladict]

But usually in the World Cup the US manages to win at least one, when they aren't losing to Trinidad and Tobago in qualifiers anyway. Granted they usually don't get the Portugal-France-German group, but even so.

I don't think anyone expected Hungary to get a single point in this group. That they did (twice), and almost won a game, is a very respectable showing.

[Jacob]

See? We are at an impasse in this conversation where neither of us can win. A tie. Seems unsatisfying doesn't it?

The fact that you view a simple conversation as a win/lose proposition is illustrative of how far apart we are.

Orban can go fuck himself.

Agreed.

Anyway fortunately in the knock out rounds these crimes against athletic competition can be done away with and we can have PKs like civilized people.

You don't understand. And that's fine. You can pretend you idiosyncractic preferences have some sort of objective correctness, but they're merely the equivalent of the ravings of some random punter at the bar. Potentially mildly entertaining if you're in the right mood, but ultimately irrelevant.

The single biggest story of the Euros so far is Denmark qualifiying. From the heart stoppage, to UEFA's shitty pressure and the lost match against Finland, the loss to Belgium, and then the incredible win against Russia. If you don't understand the pathos of that, that's your loss.

[Sheilbh]

The single biggest story of the Euros so far is Denmark qualifiying. From the heart stoppage, to UEFA's shitty pressure and the lost match against Finland, the loss to Belgium, and then the incredible win against Russia. If you don't understand the pathos of that, that's your loss.

Yeah - the narrative is huge. And I'd tie in Belgium where Eriksen's team-mate - a black player in Russia - scored in front a crowd that entirely booed him taking the knee and he runs to the camera to say "Chris - I love you!" Through to the very emotional Denmark-Belgium game.

It's extraordinary and I suspect Denmark may have a real run. On the BBC speaking to the Welsh they're saying that obviously they really want to win but they really don't want to knock out Denmark - and though Wales doesn't have that story, they're a small country with a sort of incredible team spirit who love being underdogs and sort of run on emotion, it's almost the worst tie for them.

[alfred russel]

Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?

That is taken into account. The elo ratings (using the formula used to rank chess players) has the US at 22 and Hungary at 34 which is in line with Fifa.

[Valmy]

Isn't the US given an artificial boost by winning so often against North American teams and rarely playing decent teams from elsewhere?

Probably. But the US recently beat Mexico. So there is that.