Euro 2020/2021

[Duque de Bragança]

More polite way of saying that only the Welsh had 5 players deemed worthy. Scottish and Northern Irish FAs eventually removed their initial objections.

But then, neither Beckham could make it to the final list. 

[Valmy]

More polite way of saying that only the Welsh had 5 players deemed worthy. Scottish and Northern Irish FAs eventually removed their initial objections.

But then, neither Beckham could make it to the final list. 

Oh they did? Good for them. Didn't know that.

[Duque de Bragança]

More polite way of saying that only the Welsh had 5 players deemed worthy. Scottish and Northern Irish FAs eventually removed their initial objections.

But then, neither Beckham could make it to the final list. 

Oh they did? Good for them. Didn't know that.

Going by wiki, they did. That must have been quite a hot debate back then, but I will refer to our British posters for their recollections on the matter.

[Pedrito]

 

Two notes:
- Southgate has been too timid. Once you're up one goal after 2 minutes, you have to do everything to close the game, even calling an early sub. The amount of talent that was sitting on the bench up until the last minutes was staggering, and then you put two of them on in the last three minutes, only for the PKs: big, big lack of confidence.

- I've noticed this happening more and more in recent years: 2nd place players receive the medal and immediately remove it from the neck. I hate it, because it's lacking every kind of respect both for the winners and for themselves: damn, you've come second, you should wear it with pride 

L.

[Valmy]

I get being disappointed you came in 2nd. But this was the best thing England has accomplished since 1966. In the future maybe they come around to what they achieved.

[Sheilbh]

More seriously, though, I do feel for the English team. They're a good bunch of guys, and they played well.

Yeah - they did well. I hate penalties but I think that probably was fair over the balance of the whole two hours as awful and random as it is.

Though I slightly query whether supporting Bonucci's team is the most obvious way to oppose racist fans

One of the BBC guys saying there's plenty of time left in the career for these kids to "redeem themselves" was pretty awful. These kids made it to the final and fought hard, ffs.

Agreed. I kind of get what he means and it's badly phrased - I don't think this will define their career the way Southgate's 96 miss defines his. Even now the number of times I've seen that Southgate miss during the Euros is sad.

So far what I've seen on social media and the front pages is proud of the players and there's no scapegoating (which would inevitably focus on black players). It better stay that way. If anyone comes for Rashford, Sancho and (especially) Saka around me I wil go spare about it

The look on Saka's face when Chiellini pulled him back - and just seeing him at the end was really sad.

Now, being a bit more serious. England has a great team and should be among the favorites in 2022 given that neither Brazil or Argentina are looking that hot, and I can't see the other Euro teams improving massively except maybe us (and I think we overachieved), but imho Southgate is holding them back. They should have won this game but he was way too timid despite all the firepower at his disposal.

Maybe - but he got us to a final for the first time in my life and a semi final before that. I agree - I don't think they're favourites but I think they will grow and improve as a team. I think we had one of the youngest teams in 2018 and despite a lot of change we had one of the youngest teams this year too which I kind of love. I worry that we may not be able to have such a team feeling as these players grow into bigger players who maybe expect to played a little bit more etc.

But I think the same goes for Spain, I think the same goes for Italy who have a young (for Italy) team and I think Germany will make very good quick progress on their post-Low reboot and I expect them to have a younger exciting team too. Lots of nations seem to have good teams coming together, which is good.

- Southgate has been too timid. Once you're up one goal after 2 minutes, you have to do everything to close the game, even calling an early sub. The amount of talent that was sitting on the bench up until the last minutes was staggering, and then you put two of them on in the last three minutes, only for the PKs: big, big lack of confidence.

Yeah. It's been something through the tournament where every WhatsApp I'm on is pinging with people calling for a change and, until tonight Southgate's resistance to that planning and sticking to his plan worked. I think that's bought him a lot of trust.

But I didn't like substitutes for penalties because I just think you need a touch or two and a bit of invovlement. It's a lot of pressure to come in just for penalties - I think Grealish and Sterling having a shot would have been a better shout. But you know if they'd scuffed we'd probably be sat here wondering why he didn't bring on Sancho or Rashford.

- I've noticed this happening more and more in recent years: 2nd place players receive the medal and immediately remove it from the neck. I hate it, because it's lacking every kind of respect both for the winners and for themselves: damn, you've come second, you should wear it with pride 

Yeah - no-one likes the "losers' medal". I've seen that a few times (not least the Champions League Final) but it's one of the (many) reasons I wonder why I'm not a professional sportsman and they are - I don't have that competitive drive and loathing of anything but winning.

Going by wiki, they did. That must have been quite a hot debate back then, but I will refer to our British posters for their recollections on the matter.

I remember nothing about it.

Edit: Oh, inevitably Saka's social media is getting racist abuse now This has been a huge issues for the last few years and I feel like the social media platforms really need to crush it

Edit: And maybe on us - he is getting lots of love and supportive messages too. But those players will see both

[HVC]

Agreed. I kind of get what he means and it's badly phrased - I don't think this will define their career the way Southgate's 96 miss defines his. Even now the number of times I've seen that Southgate miss during the Euros is sad.

Southgate interview with the prince about the miss

https://youtu.be/Pytk8d_yBTI

[Sheilbh]

Southgate interview with the prince about the miss

https://youtu.be/Pytk8d_yBTI

He was asked about it after beating Germany - and it was really moving. He basically said he'd looked up after the win and saw David Seaman in the seats and said "for the teammates that played with me, I can't change that. That's always going to hurt. But what's lovely is we've given people another day to remember."

I think that side of Southgate is possibly why he is so popular.

Edit: Though I do query as well as the subs - putting Saka and Sancho so late in the penalty list because I sort of feel that's when there most likely to be pressure so that's where you put your older more experienced players. But then you have a situation like Ronaldo going last and the team's already lost. I hate penalties

Edit: Also while there are sections of English fans who are utterly toxic and they need to be driven out (the security failures again are mind-blowing, I cannot imagine them in a cup or Champions League final at Wembley and I don't know how the FA underestimated this so badly) - but I have a lot of love in my heart for this woman


Edit: Oh there's now people getting organised and just flooding Saka, Rashford and Sancho's socials with messages of love and support to try and drown out the racists.

[Jacob]

Yeah - they did well. I hate penalties but I think that probably was fair over the balance of the whole two hours as awful and random as it is.

Yeah, it wasn't fundamentally unjust. Could've gone either way.

Though I slightly query whether supporting Bonucci's team is the most obvious way to oppose racist fans

Oh I have no doubt there's a bunch of racist BS associated with the Italian supporters, though I'm not aware of it. Nor with the English, for that matter, though as you've brought up here the team itself is pushing in the other direction.

To be honest, though, the thing that pushed me into "some of their fans are so despicable I'm supporting Italy" territory isn't racism. It's:

1) Spitting on visiting supporters (in Covid times, no less), including children

2) Aggressive verbal abuse of children, and physical assault of supporters with children around. Even if physical confrontations with opposing supporters is on (and it isn't, IMO, especially for international matches), you hold back when there are children around. That's a super bright line for me.

3) The laser light at Schmeichel's face during the penalty. Maybe if that hadn't been the deciding goal, and it hadn't been my team, I'd brush it off. But it was.

On the positive side, the English team and coach themselves are likeable. I like the game they play. I like the values they espouse. And I know plenty of lovely English folks, whose joy at winning would bring me pleasure (including all the English posters on languish). But the three points above are enough to outweigh that.

I mean, normally I'm not a fan of the Italian team. And the - what half a dozen ? - yellow cards are not exactly the style of play I prefer either.

Edit: Oh, inevitably Saka's social media is getting racist abuse now This has been a huge issues for the last few years and I feel like the social media platforms really need to crush it

Edit: And maybe on us - he is getting lots of love and supportive messages too. But those players will see both

That's shit

But good on the decent English folks pushing back.

[Sheilbh]

To be honest, though, the thing that pushed me into "some of their fans are so despicable I'm supporting Italy" territory isn't racism. It's:

1) Spitting on visiting supporters (in Covid times, no less), including children

2) Aggressive verbal abuse of children, and physical assault of supporters with children around. Even if physical confrontations with opposing supporters is on (and it isn't, IMO, especially for international matches), you hold back when there are children around. That's a super bright line for me.

3) The laser light at Schmeichel's face during the penalty. Maybe if that hadn't been the deciding goal, and it hadn't been my team, I'd brush it off. But it was.

Yeah - 100% agreed on all of those. I entirely understand that and it is a section of the fans (my suspicion is a young, male, coked up section of the fanbase) that are incredibly upsetting to see and behaving disgracefully.

And I'm happy for Italians. They are normally a team I always like in tournaments because I love the kits and the anthem and Mancini's suit and I grew up in the 90s when Serie A was (for me) at it's most iconic - scenes in Bedford (the most Italian city in England apparently):
https://twitter.com/agocar/status/1414377151466463232?s=20

Edit: Incidentally I had no idea that Bedford is 20% British-Italian, both Italians and people of Italian descent and and I have no idea why

Similar scenes in Glasgow There is a large Glasgow-Italian population, but I think it's mainly just Scots celebrating

That's shit

But good on the decent English folks pushing back.

Agreed - but this keeps happening with black football players on social media and I think the social media companies have a responsibility here. You pretty rarely get racist chants or things like that any more in English stadiums - and when they happen all clubs are pretty good at condemning and banning that person for life. But it's just moved online and anonymous and the players will look at their social media and it's not just one voice in a stadium of tens of thousands but directed individually at them.

[Sheilbh]

Lots of reporters saying tonight was the worst football gme they've attended for crowd control/security. Some really bad stories coming out (not in a negative to Italians way) about people with no tickets in a block of the stadium under the press box - fans with tickets not able to actually get their seats and stewards overwhelmed/not able to do anything about it.

As I say Wembley routinely hosts very big club games both nationally and for UEFA. The FA should have anticipated stuff like this (I'd be astonished if it wasn't being discussed on social media before tonight) - there was plenty of warning from the Denmark game and this was a shambles. We're very lucky it didn't end in a worse way than it did.

[Valmy]

Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers.

[Jacob]

Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers.

It is so obvious that you don't understand football

... or Europe

[Sheilbh]

Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers.

Scotland always want England to lose any game of football. But in a final I think the horror of England possibly winning a tournament is probably as strong as the hope south of the border. And I hope that never changes

[Valmy]

Their team didn't do shit and they are celebrating their rival barely lost to Italy one of the greatest football powerhouses in the world in a Euro Final? Pretty pathetic, what a bunch of losers.

It is so obvious that you don't understand football

I wouldn't celebrate Mexico losing in the World Cup finals if the US went out in pool play. Because they have already have far outclassed us. Sure I would prefer they lose but the idea I would be doing some kind of victory dance would be pathetic. Yeah! We are trash but Mexico is only 2nd and not 1st in the world!