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QuoteMEET THE BAG MAN
HOW TO BUY COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS, IN THE WORDS OF A MAN WHO DELIVERS THE MONEY

The Bag Man excuses himself to make a call outside, on his "other phone," to arrange delivery of $500 in cash to a visiting recruit. The player is rated No. 1 at his position nationally and on his way into town. We're sitting in a popular restaurant near campus almost a week before National Signing Day, talking about how to arrange cash payments for amateur athletes.

"Nah, there's no way we're landing him, but you still have to do it," he says. "It looks good. It's good for down the road. Same reason my wife reads Yelp. These kids talk to each other. It's a waste of money, but they're doing the same thing to our guys right now in [rival school's town]. Cost of business."

Technically, this conversation never happened, because I won't reveal this man's name or the player's, or even the town I visited. Accordingly, all the other conversations I had with different bag men representing different SEC programs over a two-month span surrounding National Signing Day didn't happen either.

Even when I asked for and received proof -- in this case a phone call I watched him make to a number I independently verified, then a meeting in which I witnessed cash handed to an active SEC football player -- it's just cash changing hands. When things are done correctly, there's no proof more substantial than one man's word over another. That allows for plausible deniability, which is good enough for the coaches, administrators, conference officials, and network executives. And the man I officially didn't speak with was emphatic that no one really understands how often and how well it almost always works.

These men are fans who believe they're leveraging football success $500 or $50,000 at a time. I can't show you that money, and neither can anyone else. You might think you see the money -- a flash of $20 bills all over some kid's Instagram or Facebook update -- but that's just money.

This is the arrangement in high-stakes college football, though of course not every player is paid for. Providing cash and benefits to players is not a scandal or a scheme, merely a function. And when you start listening to the stories, you understand the function can never be stopped.

"Last week I got a call. We've got this JUCO transfer that had just got here. And he's country poor. The [graduate assistant] calls me and tells me he's watching the AFC Championship Game alone in the lobby of the Union because he doesn't have a TV. Says he never owned one. Now, you can buy a Walmart TV for $50. What kid in college doesn't have a TV? So I don't give him any money. I just go dig out in my garage and find one of those old Vizios from five years back and leave it for him at the desk. I don't view what I do as a crime, and I don't give a shit if someone else does, honestly."

"If we could take a vote for these kids to make a real salary every season, I would vote for it. $40,000 or something. Goes back to mama, buys them a car, lets them go live like normal people after they work their asses off for us. But let's be honest, that ain't gonna stop all this. If everyone gets $40,000, someone would still be trying to give 'em 40 extra on the side."

This is how you become a college football bag man.

I. "JUST HANG OUT AND LEARN TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT."

Chances are you didn't just wake up one day and decide that your passion for Team A was suddenly worth forking over money to entice and reward student-athletes. If you haven't already grown up in your team's culture, you start going to games, first as a student, then a young alum, then a married alum, and then as a young family. You become a person everyone in your age group knows has enough money that a low-five-figure deduction wouldn't be missed.

One caveat. If you're stinking, filthy rich, a good athletic director or university fundraiser has already contacted you for above-board donations, and you likely won't get into the business of paying players. It's the guys with just about 10 or 15 grand to burn annually that usually become bag men.

"I think it took me seven years. I knew some guys. They knew some older guys. And before, I really didn't believe any of this happened. Then I start coming around different events, parties, tailgates. After a while one guy says, 'Oh hey, I know him. It's okay, he loves the [team],' and starts talking who needed to get what. And so I was a part of it. I wanted to be."

Once properly vetted, your money usually buys you first or secondhand access to information most fans (or journalists) would kill for: player run-ins with the law that go unreported, what certain coaches are really like, what kind of power an A.D. or president really has, and most importantly, who really is in charge of your football program.

II. DISCOVER CROOTSYLVANIA, THE PAY-ME STATE.

Southern states feature vastly different cultural, economic and physical territories, but every state with a school in the SEC contains a few consistent features from which a kind of map can be built:

The university housing your team.

A capital city. Your school likely has some concentration of lawyers or elected officials.

The metro area (sometimes also the capital), the state's most populated and therefore talent-rich area.

A community or city closest to your state's border with another conference state.

Enemy territory. Just as your team has boosters active in other states, so too are enemy agents inside your borders. In many cases they're concentrated in a single area, like an in-state rival's town, a town close to the border, or just an area with a concentration of sidewalk fans who support someone else.

From these areas, borders are drawn and districts are created, but over time specific territories are shaped by the bag men in them. It's a somewhat fluid map, at least over long amounts of time.

Regardless of the state, a school's bag men gravitate towards two centers of power: the university and the state's metro area, the latter because of population, the former because of power. Regardless of where top-dollar shadow boosters and bag men might live, the university town serves as the primary center of operations. After all, that's where the coaches and players are.

III. EVEN SHADOW GOVERNMENTS HAVE STAFF MEETINGS.

Bag men tend to operate in plain sight. And while there might be a kind of cabal of particularly rich boosters who direct operations at private meetings, there aren't dungeons and robes or some kind of "X-Files" syndicate in a smoky boardroom.

"No secret lair, although a couple guys have some pretty ridiculous-looking hunting camps. I mean, we're shooting the shit about college football players. That in and of itself isn't a crime. Sometimes we go to the Waffle House."

The rules of communication tend to follow your typical sleeper cell or drug-dealing outfit. Talk in person as much as possible, preferably in group settings. Don't use email. Never interact with the media and avoid the university's public relations or sports information departments whenever possible. And buy burners. Lots of burners.

"It's the bat phone. Everybody has a bat phone. Buy some in a gas station out of town, use 'em for a while, toss 'em. The worst part was convincing my wife it wasn't so I could carry on an affair, because I wouldn't let her use it or see who I was talking to."

Burners are seasonal and used mostly around the height of recruiting season, when local bag men need to communicate quickly with other shadow boosters across the state and region higher up the fiscal chain. Later on they'll be used to communicate directly with active players. But calls are often made to a person's primary number, and in a pinch basic code-talking will suffice.

"I can call up a guy in real estate and say, 'Hey man, we thought about it, and let's do that 24-acre plot. How's a 4 p.m. meeting sound?'"

The first number is the player, usually designated by a jersey number. Here, it's player No. 24. The time is the cost. In this example, $4,000. Listen long enough and it's not much of a code, but there's never been much to codebreaking here, either.

"I don't sell drugs. I don't even speed on the highway. No one's listening to me."

IV. (DON'T) GET TO KNOW YOUR HEAD COACH.

There's a weird code of personal conduct for a bag man. It's okay to be flashy, but within the limits. Set up your lavish tailgate, put a deposit down on a luxury box, or name your child after a famous player or coach. After all, you're passionate enough to be paying, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

But while drawing attention to yourself is fine, drawing importance to yourself is forbidden. You are now somebody in one very small social circle but forever destined to be nobody in the public eye.

"Coach has met me a few times. I've talked to Coach. But Coach doesn't really know me from Adam. How many other folks do you think he meets a week? After he got hired, I walked up and shook his hand, and the guy introducing us says, "Hey Coach, this here's [first name], he takes care of stuff for us.' Now, what does that really mean? Do I charter planes for the university? Do I run a company that sells concessions to the stadium? Or do I make sure kids get taken care of? Coach doesn't know what I 'take care of.' He knows someone out there is doing this, and that's all."

A good bag man will never be famous. He will never be that guy hovering right next to the head coach after a big win. His name will never be known by the majority of students, fans, and alumni of the university he loves. There is no dead bag man memorial on the campus of any football powerhouse. There are no memorial scholarships named after the guy who gave a running back's mother $3,000 a month for four years.

"There's some guy I know. He's in the [official booster club for the university]. I've known him almost all my life; he's a friend of my family. Guy gives about $50,000 a year to the program. And so he gets to wear a jacket and have his name in the [annual alumni magazine] and gets to shake hands with the coaches and feel really goddamn important. I see this guy all the time, and we talk about the team, and he's always trying to big dick about how important he is to the program. Now let me ask you, who do you think is more important to this team winning next season? Him with his $50,000 getting bathrooms painted in the basketball arena, or what I do with not even a quarter of that much money?"

Bottom line: if you're successful in landing a player who is in turn successful on the field, and you can't abide people not knowing you had a hand in the process, you're in the wrong field of athletic support.

V. THERE IS NEVER A BANK ACCOUNT. THERE IS ONLY CASH

You've probably read a detailed breakdown on some message board about how your rival school managed to land that prized wide receiver, and it probably involves something to do with a bank account.

The player might have been bought, but he didn't pop into the local savings and loan to pick up his check. Bank accounts carry more potentially traceable information than any other facet of an illegal payments system, even more than phone records. Yet in almost every popular Internet rumor about a recruit's family being paid off, there's some mention of a bank account or a slush fund that boosters pay into and athletes take out of.

"If you hear stories about bank accounts, they're fake. Why would there be a bank account? Yeah, I'm gonna open a checking account with statements someone could subpoena. Oh and hey, in this small town of however-many-thousands of people I'm gonna go in and open some account and then ask for a bunch of black teenagers to be put on there and ask for a bunch of debit cards they could get caught with. Why don't I just take out a fucking ad?"

There might not be a FDIC-insured savings account at a local bank branch, but there is always a pool from which money can be accessed quickly. A majority of fundraising occurs in the offseason, when coaches visit alumni and booster clubs throughout their schools' regions.

"The coach or coaches come in, say their piece, bullshit with the folks and take pictures and then they're in the car and headed back home. When they leave, we start talking. What we figure out then is what we need to put together in that area [of the state] for anyone we're trying to land from that area. That's when the hat gets passed."

The actual money is never collected in a single area, but a collective of shadow boosters keeps an unwritten counter on how much each of them can contribute in cash at any given moment for three major purposes:

Large single sums to be paid out in order to convince a recruit to sign with the school.
Maintenance payments to current players, delivered in an ongoing basis.
Cash owed by an out-of-area shadow booster to a bag man living in the college town. Sometimes a player whose sponsor lives back at home needs money immediately, so a local bag man not assigned to that player will pay the player, with a marker going to his booster back home.
The small business fuels America. Cash that doesn't have to be accounted for exists in any variety of ways. Sell a pair of lower bowl tickets to a guy you know from church? Cash. Sell a bass boat on Craigslist? Cash. Run or own a restaurant? Cash. Work in agriculture? Lots of cash.

"We all do different things. Finding liquid capital is not a problem for any of us. If it was, we wouldn't be doing this."

VI. THE RULES OF COURTING

Some towns or high schools have already made a recruit's decision before he's out of diapers. These are strongholds. The local money, the high school coaches and principals, the parents and the "uncles" are already all on all the same team.

This is built by heritage and takes decades and sometimes millions of dollars. Maybe it's a local business that employs working-class families. Jobs for parents can be arranged with ease, as can pressure on those currently employed.

A player can be identified as a prospect in middle school, either by a coach friendly to your program or a bag man himself. A collegiate head coach would never inform a bag man of his preferences, but in a well-run program, his desires would be known without communicating them.

Extenuating factors to consider when putting together a plan:

What's the climate of the high school? Does the high school coach lean towards or away from your college program?

Is this a stronghold town or disputed territory? How fast will competition come in? Or is someone already in with the family, meaning you're the competition?

What's the economic status of the family? Any criminal history? Could other incentives (jobs, cars) be arranged?

What is the family dynamic? Who other than the mother or grandmother is workable? ("I've never encountered a situation where a parent or guardian worried about the legality. I can't say that's ever even been asked of me.")

Who is the one person that can be trusted to take payments before the player signs and keep the money out of public view?

"If mama's been working all her life to provide, you can make that work. That's a very manageable situation. But if you've got an uncle talking about being the kid's manager or agent, talking about his rap label he's starting or interviews with ESPN, shit ... you better hold on, or reevaluate how bad you want this player."

Often a full assessment of a recruit's situation reveals that a promise of cash payments isn't the way to go. Sometimes a recruit's family could be so far under the poverty line that any kind of sudden flush spending would draw the attention of the NCAA, or the recruit is so high-profile that he's receiving multiple cash gifts from competing boosters. That's when the personal touch becomes a better option.

"I've paid to put a single mother through rehab. It was the recruit's older sister. He's playing ball and mama's raising two grandchildren, his sister's kids. Mama's tired and doesn't want to raise another set of kids. So we make the calls and arrange for the daughter to go to rehab, then set her up with a job when she's done. Fast track her to a job at a private business, nothing suspicious. Now mama can enjoy her son playing and the daughter is back on her feet. And when it came time to sign, we made sure she saw something [cash], but I promise you that meant more than just money."

The most common non-cash gifts to recruits are cars. In every major city inside the Southeastern Conference's footprint is a tangle of auto dealerships with varying ties to particular schools.

"There are jokes about kids getting cars, but that's actually pretty easy. We all have dealerships all over. You practically have to nowadays, anyway, just for the coaches. Think about it. Most schools, all the football, basketball, and baseball coaches and their wives are getting some kind of vehicle for free as part of their contract. Then they're turning them in every three years or so. That's a fleet right there. You need a lot of guys with dealerships, and you need them in different towns. Then getting a clean title on a member of the family is pretty easy."

Whatever the minimum of necessary paperwork to absolve a player of improper benefits received is, it's not a problem. A title for a moderately priced SUV can be created in a relative's name, as can a receipt of sale for a reasonable price.

"Hey, how'd he get that ride? His uncle bought it. How did his uncle buy it? Paid cash. Paid cash, how'd he do that? Shit, we don't know, but here's the receipt where he paid cash, and now y'all ain't got shit. Go tell the NCAA you think we're cheating because this kid's uncle bought him a used Tahoe in cash, you racist."

Resources, assistance, paperwork, and even a subpar explanation mean most needs can be taken care of.

"One time grandpa needed his tractor fixed. He and grandma were the primary care-givers of this kid out in a rural area. Well, they aren't going to turn down the money, and they didn't, but what they needed was a tractor to get fixed. But we couldn't take this tractor to get fixed just anywhere, because the guy who does that locally works for a business that's owned by a [rival school] fan."

Why not just buy a new tractor?

"Because that would be like a Lamborghini showing up in their driveway. See, you don't know how much a tractor costs. So we've got to get this tractor to a repair guy who we're comfortable enough calling up and saying, 'Hey, fix this. He's good for it. We're taking care of it.' The tractor gets fixed. Now you try and prove we fixed that tractor."

What about a receipt?

"You're a reporter. You can't demand a receipt from a private business. Besides, did you know that repair guy owed that farmer a favor? He did it for half the normal cost and the guy paid him in cash. You're not the IRS, anyway."

And the NCAA?

"He's a farmer. He got paid extra on a side job or made extra taking something to market. Paid for it that way. Whatever."

Still, why not limit the interaction to simply providing the money for the repair? Why get so involved when it only increases potential complications or chances of exposure?

"Because of the competition. If we're after a guy, what are the chances four more schools in the SEC aren't after him too? What you want more than anything else is the ability to sit down with that decision-maker, grandma or mama or the uncle, right before the time comes and say, 'Hey, we know that old so-and-so from [rival school] has come to see you. That's fine. But we know you know who's been here since the beginning and who's been taking care of you.' You want them to believe that you'll take care of them the best in the future, too."

Remember, your job as a bag man isn't to hide the benefit. It's to hide the proof. In a region as passionate about college football as the American South, there's no real moral outrage when new cars or clothes or jobs for relatives appear.

"We can only get away with whatever's considered reasonable by the majority of the folks in our society. That's why it's different in the SEC. Maybe that's why we're able to be more active in what we do. Because no one ever looks at the car or the jewelry and says, 'How did you get that, poor football player?' They say, 'How did they get you that and not get caught, poor football player?'"

VII. YOU WILL KNOW YOUR ENEMY.

Rural Southerners make a habit of knowing each other's business. Chances are you'll become aware of and -- believe it or not -- friends with bag men for rivals schools. Not that there's such a concept of friends in love or war.

"It's a small group. If you grow up in the state, you end up knowing folks. It's really that simple. But that won't stop them from trying to bury your ass when it gets down to it. A few years back, we were fighting hard for a kid in their backyard. We went for a full year with the family, thought we had it wrapped up. Still thought we had it done the night before Signing Day. He liked our coaches. But the family keeps dragging it and dragging it. Late that night I get a call, and it's the player on the phone, the kid himself. You could tell he was nervous. He said, 'Mr. [name], I talked to my mama, and we decided that $70,000 and we're going with you, if you can promise us $70,000 tonight.' I knew right away we were being recorded, and I knew the asshole down there who had set it up. I knew him personally. They had him. That part was done. But they wanted to get someone on tape to try and turn it over to the NCAA. So I said, 'Well gosh [player name], we'd love to see you here next season, but we just don't do that kind of thing.' Then I hung up."

The bag men associated with certain schools pay potential signees one-time bonus payments not to visit a rival school that's offered a scholarship. The going rate is stated to be $2,500. This has become a popular tactic in recent years, as the recruiting process has become more publicized.

"You can have a rival coach who is considered a great recruiter, and he might say, 'We feel great about this kid, if we can just get him on campus.' Well, what if you can't even get him to show up? How great a recruiter are you now?"

This tactic is not universally employed. Some coaches encourage players to visit other campuses to recruit other players. Some like for everyone to know how many other schools have offered a player before he makes his choice, making it look like the chosen school beat an even longer list of rivals. Regardless, it's a shining example of how influential shadow boosters are in the recruiting process and how crucial they are to the success of a coach's reputation as a good recruiter.

It's also how lame duck coaching staffs are created. If a majority of bag men want a particular coach out and an A.D. or president won't make a move, they'll just dry up funds.

"The coach won't know exactly when we decide to make that happen, but they've got a good idea. Then we get to see just how damn good a recruiter he really is. I know one of our guys once stopped putting in big bucks, way more than what I do, just because a head coach cussed too much on the team plane. [The coach] was losing anyway, but because he took the Lord's name in vain, that guy was offended by his morality and stopped illegally paying college football players."

VIII. SMALL, SIMPLE AND FREQUENT.

There's little use for an actual bag, especially once an athlete is signed and on campus. Rather than dole out large sums of money, the bag man usually prefers to hand over frequent payments of $200 to $500. It prevents the player from overspending, losing the money or getting robbed, and ...

"I don't like to run around with thousands in cash on my person, either. This isn't 'Scarface.'"

Think of how quickly the average student blows through a student loan check. The increased frequency of the meets help foster a better relationship, as each bag man is assigned or volunteers for particular players. The more often the meetings, the more casual and less clandestine they can become, but the level of maintenance can be stressful. This also means that bag men willing to either live in or near the university town are highly valued.

This usually isn't a problem, as most college towns are considered desirable places to raise families and operate businesses.

"I don't know how much some of the kids are getting. I just handle my guys. Obviously I know it's happening, but I can't tell you when or where or how much or how often. I just handle my guys."

IX. JUST SAY NO TO BOUNTIES AND BONUSES.

"I had this one kid, great player, good guy. Never got in trouble, but never did much on the field. But he's calling me all the time. 'Hey, the sunroof in my car is leaking,' he says, so I tell him to come meet me. $150. Two days later it's: 'Hey, I'm going out this weekend with a girl, can you help me?' $200. Next week after that he's got $300 in parking tickets. So one day I go to meet him to give him money and I ask, "Hey man, aren't you a business major? Have y'all learned what ROI means yet? It means return on investment, and at this rate I'm going to need to start seeing some touchdowns.'"

HANDING OUT $100 BILLS FOR INTERCEPTIONS OR SACKS USED TO SEEM LIKE THE BAG MAN'S TOP RESPONSIBILITY, BUT THEY'VE LEARNED.

This is a newer wrinkle for the bag man. As a fan, the temptation might be to reward a player who's putting up great numbers, just as you might want to withhold from one who's thought to be showing poor effort. But as a businessperson, that's poor management. The 1980s Miami Hurricanes are in many ways a what-not-to-do guide for shadow boosters, but it was the system of incentives and bounties favored by 2000s Miami booster Nevin Shapiro that's shown the foolishness of incentives.

Handing out $100 bills for interceptions or sacks used to seem like the bag man's top responsibility, but they've learned. Performance-based rewards require some kind of record-keeping, which is the first red light. The second is a potential for competition among players that could bleed over into animosity or somehow affect on-field efficiency.

"I read the stuff Oklahoma State was accused of. The reason I don't believe a lot of it is because how stupid they come off. When they said players were getting cash envelopes handed out in the locker room after the game like it was Gatorade, I thought, 'surely this is a joke.' And if I was a player, stopped getting money because I was hurt or buried on the depth chart or was maybe playing through an injury you didn't know about, I'd go to the media, too."

X. YOU MUST KEEP THE CIRCLE UNBROKEN.

College majors like Exercise Science and General Education have long been assailed by critics as crip-course degrees, but shadow boosters see them as a vital way to perpetuate the cycle. If a player finishes out his eligibility and has no feasible future in the pros, he might return home and become a nearby high school coach. It doesn't matter if it's junior high or seven-on-seven camps; each means a new brand ambassador for the program.

"You win the gym teachers, and you can go a long way. That's why all those basket-weaving degrees are so important, because we need 'em on both ends. You need 'em to keep the kids qualified, and you need 'em to produce guys who can go back and coach and teach and help us."

It doesn't hurt that the system produces agents who often become the most powerful male influence in a young athlete's life. And there is, of course, a fiscal incentive for the ex-athlete to help steer future players in the same direction he went. The bag man doesn't expect any coach to push 100 percent of his Division I-worthy talent to any one particular place, let alone his alma mater, but rather pick spots for the big ones.

"Kids are going to grow up liking teams for one reason or another, but when it comes time to start seriously talking to them, you need as many folks as you can get. Mama wins almost every time. Mama's most important. But you get coaches with ties to the school, then you get one person who has all those kids' attention."

This system and the men operating it want you to know that they don't succeed so often and raise the stakes so fearlessly because they're that good. It's because so many people care so much. There might not be a cultural mandate, but describing an October Saturday in the South as a culture accepting of this behavior would be a raging understatement.

"I'm not Nevin Shapiro. I'm not telling these kids to give another player a concussion. I'm not paying for abortions. It's 2014. Who's left to tell that would get angry? Who's left that would object to seeing these kids getting some money?"

If you believe any of this happens with the frequency and level of organization described, you might assume that such practices surely couldn't go entirely unnoticed, that surely someone not involved in a conspiracy to illegally funnel money to college-aged athletes would expose the plot. It's happened before, after all.

"It happens, yeah, but now we start to ask, 'Who would do that?' You try your damnedest to take care of everyone involved for a long as you can. Look at where we live. Look at how much everyone cares. Think about how much of a pariah any one of us would become if we spoke out, especially with no real evidence.

"I look at this as an investment. When you ask me why I do this ... let me ask you something. Who's your favorite sports team? Most favorite. Who do you live and die with? What if I told you that if you gave me $10,000 right now I could guarantee you they'd be better? That if they were usually bad that they'd have a winning season? Or if they were just a game shy of going to a championship that they'd get there next season?"

"Hey, man," he calls to the bartender.

"If I told you right now the [team] would win the SEC this fall and go to the Playoff, but only if you gave me 10 grand, would you do it?"

"Shit, man ... will you take a check?," the bartender asks. "But if you could really do that, I'd probably get the cash together in a day or two."

Quote from: grumbler on April 10, 2014, 08:40:15 PM
I wonder if any of this is mere exaggeration.  A lot of it is pretty clearly untrue (though I don't know whether the reporter is making up the stories or is being fed them and believes them himself). If this was as widespread as the reporter reports, it couldn't be kept secret.  It surely happens on some scale, though.

Quote from: Valmy on April 11, 2014, 08:43:55 AM
Secret?  Haven't we been hearing about this stuff for decades?

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 11, 2014, 06:35:59 PM
Ash broke his foot aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Quote from: grumbler on April 11, 2014, 12:55:28 PM

Quote from: Valmy on April 11, 2014, 08:43:55 AM
Secret?  Haven't we been hearing about this stuff for decades?

Who has been doing it?  I can't think of a single program convicted of this.

Quote from: Valmy on April 11, 2014, 10:36:02 PM
This is almost exactly the same thing, a bit more modernized and sophisticated, the SWC schools were doing in the 80s and basically what the SEC fans have been saying they have been doing for years.

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2014, 09:10:45 AM
I simply cannot believe that this is as pervasive as the author and his anonymous bag man claim, and yet no one has ever stepped forward and said "yeah, that happened to me."

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 13, 2014, 09:28:05 AM

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2014, 09:10:45 AM
I simply cannot believe that this is as pervasive as the author and his anonymous bag man claim, and yet no one has ever stepped forward and said "yeah, that happened to me."

--grumbler
  President, NCAA

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 13, 2014, 02:52:19 PM
Nyuks from the Big School Defender, who wants to believe that NCAA violations are reserved solely for the really big stars, and that it can't possibly happen to the dozens of lower-tiered players getting by on nickels and dimes from boosters and "bag men"; a used TV here, a few free dinners there, a couple of dollars to get through the month from the local Cadillac dealer (Class of '87) that wants to help his team out.

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2014, 09:10:45 AM
And I wonder the exact same thing about the bragging of old SC fans and current SEC fans.  I simply cannot believe that this is as pervasive as the author and his anonymous bag man claim, and yet no one has ever stepped forward and said "yeah, that happened to me."

Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2014, 04:49:04 PM
Seems to me people have said that, there are reports of people getting things all the time.  Well in any case this is out there now.  We will see.  With all this money and jobs out there, you have to have a grievance of some sort to spill the beans in a way that is actually useful to the NCAA like what happened at SMU.

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2014, 05:10:23 PM
People have said that they heard that someone else was getting paid, or "people are getting paid," and the like.  I don't know of anyone who has said, "yeah, I got paid" or "yeah, when Ohio State was recruiting me, they offered me $2500 not to visit Michigan."  You'd think if tens of thousands of players have met with bag men, and everyone thinks that this is no big deal, there would be at least one willing to admit it, even years later.

Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2014, 05:16:24 PM
If they do not have a motive why would they?  I mean nobody admitted it during the late 70s, early 80s either and it was a lot less sophisticated.

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2014, 05:26:23 PM

Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2014, 05:16:24 PM
If they do not have a motive why would they?  I mean nobody admitted it during the late 70s, early 80s either and it was a lot less sophisticated.

You'd think that one player out of tens of thousands would grow up enough to realize that corruption is bad.  I suppose you could argue that not one football player for the SEC or SWC in the last 40 years has a motive to support fair intercollegiate competition, but I'd argue that position really doesn't pass the smell test.

Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2014, 06:40:59 PM
Besides it is not the players job to monitor all the adults in this stuff. 

Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2014, 06:40:59 PM
Players come out all the time, but as I said not with sufficient evidence to bust anybody because why should they put their ass on the line in a crusade that doesn't benefit them and would probably hurt them quite a bit?

QuoteBesides it is not the players job to monitor all the adults in this stuff.

QuoteThe SMU guy did because he had a specific grievance.  Anyway, we will see if anybody bothers to actually investigate and look into this, I suspect nothing will happen as it always does when stories like this come out.  I mean we had evidence, in writing, of Oregon giving out money to influence (not directly to him of course) Lache Seastrunk and nothing happened at all and everybody was sure Oregon was screwed.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 19, 2014, 05:38:07 PM
Looks like that ionized powder-paint stuff.

Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2014, 07:20:21 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 19, 2014, 05:38:07 PM
Looks like that ionized powder-paint stuff.

Apparently, it is supposed to show better on TV.  Michigan played a night game in helmets that had that stuff, specifically because it looked better (or so the AD said) on hi-def TV.

Quote from: alfred russel on April 19, 2014, 08:12:10 PM
If the Michigan AD wants his team to look good on hi-def TV, he should look into fielding a team that can win more than a game or two in the back half of the season.

Quote from: grumbler on April 20, 2014, 11:03:55 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on April 19, 2014, 08:12:10 PM
If the Michigan AD wants his team to look good on hi-def TV, he should look into fielding a team that can win more than a game or two in the back half of the season.

Or schedule those as night games...

Quote from: alfred russel on April 20, 2014, 11:47:45 AM
Lets face it...the only way to avoid looking bad when Denard Robinson is your QB, and with that defense, is to play all night games. Without turning the lights on.

Quote from: grumbler on April 20, 2014, 01:09:14 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on April 20, 2014, 11:47:45 AM
Lets face it...the only way to avoid looking bad when Denard Robinson is your QB, and with that defense, is to play all night games. Without turning the lights on.

Denard Robinson hasn't been the QB for the last season and a half.  Ironically, when he left, so did the defense.

You are correct that the team would be better off if the opponents were as much in the dark as the Michigan players.

But There's Always Next year(TM)

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 19, 2014, 11:43:39 AM
Washington's new textured alternate helmets are weird.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FBlhshNbCMAAozCG.png%3Amedium&hash=1476106f9d3e0523c60dc8a43db59a2db566d40d)

Quote from: alfred russel on April 20, 2014, 01:19:12 PM
I might be getting senile.

I was going to make the suggestion that Denard Robinson games should be played at night, without lights, and in the nude. He would be naturally camouflaged. Maybe that would give him a competitive advantage, maybe not. But at least it would keep Brady Hoke from having a stroke from seeing him throw another interception.

And me from having a stroke when he decides to have his one good quarter of downfield passing in his whole college career against the ND defense.

Quote from: grumbler on April 20, 2014, 01:42:44 PM

Robinson was 16-4 as Michigan's QB under Hoke.  Hoke hasn't done nearly as well since he left.  Robinson certainly wasn't the best passing running QB the game has seen, but he wasn't awful.    He's the only running QB to get 1500 yards through the air as well as 1500 on the ground in a season.

Quote from: alfred russel on April 20, 2014, 02:03:58 PM
The game has changed to be a lot more passing oriented. And also now there are 12 games, and bowl games now count for stats. 1500 yard passing isn't too much more than 100 a game. Unless you play for a military academy or Georgia Tech etc., getting 1500 yards passing should be a function of being named starting QB and not getting injured. Checking his numbers, he completed under 60% of his passes and threw 49 TDs and 39 INTs. Not good.

1500 yards rushing is awesome--even for a RB. No doubt he was a phenomenal when running. If he didn't have the option to run, and defenses didn't have to account for that even on 3rd and long, you can imagine how shitty his passing numbers would have been. It really highlights just how bad ND's secondary was a few years ago when he had the big 4th quarter comeback (3 years ago?).

QuoteThe NCAA's board of directors took the first step toward shifting power to the five largest football conferences on Thursday, endorsing a 57-page plan that calls for giving 65 of the nation's biggest schools more autonomy in how to fund scholarships, handle health care and decide other increasingly hot-button issues involving their athletes.

If approved later this year, schools in the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC could implement some rules on their own and would get more voting power over legislation that would affect every NCAA member school.

A formal vote on the recommendations is tentatively scheduled for the board's August meeting, and if it passes then, the transition could begin this fall.

Supporters insist the changes are long overdue.

"We (the big schools) have some issues we've got to deal with, but you've got to get a way to get the issues into the process," Purdue athletic director Morgan Burke said. "We've got enough flashpoints out there that we need to build some credibility with the fan base. We've just got work to do and if the governance system is impeding these issues, we've got to overhaul the governance system."

The endorsement came one day before Northwestern football players were scheduled to vote on whether to create what would be the first union for college athletes in U.S. history. NCAA President Mark Emmert this week suggested the changes within the NCAA will address some of the issues raised by those backing the unionization effort.

Burke and Missouri athletic director Mike Alden spent months before reaching a consensus on the plan among the roughly 350 Division I athletic directors.

Even lower-profile conferences believe in the general outline, though they acknowledge some additional details still need to be worked out.

"Do I think it can work? Probably," Horizon League commissioner Jon LeCrone said. "Is it perfect? Probably not. But I think it's going to work better than what we've got now."

If approved, the 65 schools in the five big conferences would be granted autonomy to implement some of the most dramatic changes in college sports — though it would require a two-thirds majority for approval.

While the list of autonomous items has not been finalized, it is likely to include issues such as providing money to students that goes uncovered by traditional scholarships; expanded insurance, including coverage for pro prospects; more resources for academic and career counseling; and funding to help athletes' families travel to NCAA tournaments. Other components that could be added include creating mandatory break times from sports, a change that would allow athletes to pursue careers away from the playing field and still maintain their eligibility and even transfer rules.

Critics contend the NCAA is only starting to move on these issues now because players are threatening to unionize.

But Burke, Emmert and others have repeatedly noted these issues have been on the agenda for months or years and had gotten bogged down in the NCAA's cumbersome approval process.

"I only wish the association could move that fast," Emmert said when asked if this was a response to the union movement. "It's taken longer than anybody wanted, but we got it done and that's a good thing."

What's still unclear is how well this plan will work.

Still to be determined is how, or if, the other 27 Division I conferences might apply measures approved through the autonomy rules.
"If it's approved by the five conferences, the Horizon League should decide if it wants to adopt that approach," said LeCrone, whose league approved providing the full cost-of-attendance for its athletes after the measure initially passed in October 2011.

Board Chairman Nathan Hatch, the president at Wake Forest, said even if the new governing structure does pass in August, the current committees will remain in place until the NCAA's annual convention in January to ensure a smooth transition.

In other moves Thursday, the board approved a measure to give a small group of students who receive "hardship waivers" to transfer to a new school one additional year to complete their eligibility and to provide unlimited meals and snacks year-round to all athletes — an issue that drew national attention when men's basketball tournament Most Outstanding Player Shabazz Napier of Connecticut said he sometimes went to bed "starving."

But the bigger focus Thursday was finding a way to make the NCAA work more efficiently.

"To do nothing is absolutely wrong and to make a good faith effort is the absolute right thing to do," Burke said. "So let's put the best minds around it, give it time and let it work."

Quote from: sbr on April 24, 2014, 06:24:51 PM
The NCAA has passed a new rule allowing UConn to feed Shabazz Napier (and all other athletes) as much food as they want/need during the entire school year.

They also endorsed a plan that would make the 65 "BCS Conference" schools "more autonomy in how to fund scholarships, handle health care and decide other increasingly hot-button issues involving their athletes."

Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2014, 11:00:04 PM
Good, these reforms are long overdue.

Quote from: grumbler on April 25, 2014, 06:48:45 AM
Emmert has been trying to get those reforms passed for years. 

I must admit that I am enjoying the whole media circus of the "starving" Shabazz Napier more than any media myth of the last year or so.  It is so pervasive and so obviously untrue.

Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2014, 08:13:26 AM
Hey three meals a day is not enough for growing college men.  Admit it you would have been starving to without access to snacks.

Quote from: grumbler on April 25, 2014, 06:48:45 AM
I must admit that I am enjoying the whole media circus of the "starving" Shabazz Napier more than any media myth of the last year or so.  It is so pervasive and so obviously untrue.

Quote from: sbr on April 10, 2014, 06:28:50 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this article,

Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 09:30:14 AM
I rewatched the U yesterday. And thought of Valmy when the Hurricanes raped Texas in the cotton bowl.

Hook 'em horns.

Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2014, 09:31:52 AM

Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 09:30:14 AM
I rewatched the U yesterday. And thought of Valmy when the Hurricanes raped Texas in the cotton bowl.

Hook 'em horns.

If it makes you enjoy it any more I cried at the time.  Man I loved that team but they were completely intimidated by Miami.  I have a deep hatred of the Hurricanes down in my DNA to this day as a result.  Texas never got revenge for that but I felt like Alabama did it for all College Football in 1993.

Quote from: alfred russel on April 25, 2014, 09:44:59 AM
The 1990 team that beat Texas in the Cotton Bowl was the most unremarkable team in that run, and the only time they went to a bowl game without a good shot at a national title, but I think that bowl game is the most remembered by Miami fans.

Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2014, 09:55:06 AM

The team that smashed Texas was not the same bunch of chumps who lost to BYU, I don't know what the hell happened.

Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2014, 10:18:30 AM
I love how vividly I remember everything that happened in College Football from 1988 to 1994. I was such a fanatic as a tweener.  It all was so serious back then.

Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2014, 10:19:49 AM
It was a fun era for football.

Quote from: Valmy on April 25, 2014, 10:18:30 AM
I love how vividly I remember everything that happened in College Football from 1988 to 1994. I was such a fanatic as a tweener.  It all was so serious back then.

Quote from: alfred russel on April 25, 2014, 09:18:35 AM

Quote from: sbr on April 10, 2014, 06:28:50 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this article,

The NCAA college football thread 2014 - 2015 that was already started was one option you had.  :P

Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2014, 08:46:58 PM
(https://s.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-04-30/61ce62e0-d09f-11e3-8fb2-970ba373c181_Winstonrunning.jpg)

Quote from: Valmy on May 15, 2014, 11:37:56 AM
It says a lot about the current state of Texas Tech that the beauty of their head coach is the only item of interest.

Quote from: Rasputin on May 15, 2014, 09:06:04 PM
Miami of Florida sucks cock.

It is the only team more despicable than the Florida gators.

I just wanted to clear that up for y'all.

Quote from: alfred russel on May 15, 2014, 09:29:17 PM

Quote from: Rasputin on May 15, 2014, 09:06:04 PM
Miami of Florida sucks cock.

It is the only team more despicable than the Florida gators.

I just wanted to clear that up for y'all.

...

As someone who is objective on this stuff, and can see the big picture, let me assure you that the most despicable team is the Florida Gators.  :)

Quote from: Ed Anger on May 15, 2014, 09:41:05 PM
Yeah, #2!

QuotePussy is going to college



In college football recruiting, as long as it's within the rules, it's never a bad idea to go above and beyond to show how much you want a player. Coaches get to know an athlete's parents, and that can ultimately mean a coach knowing every little detail about a recruit.

The Rice Owls took it one step further this week. Rice showed love to a recruit's cat. And apparently, it worked.

Rice picked up a commit in three-star quarterback J.T. Granato from The Kinkaid School in Houston. According to Houston TV station KRIV, Rice scored the commitment after mailing -- get this -- a handwritten note to Granato's cat, White Sox.

This was posted on the Twitter account of Granato's father, John:

@JTGranato10 committed to Rice today. Rice closed the deal by sending JT's cat a recruiting letter. Well done Owls pic.twitter.com/NBCqPX7PIG

— John Granato (@johngranato) May 16, 2014


The note in the letter -- which was addressed to "Kitty Granato," read, "Please help us to get J.T. to choose Rice." It then added, "Paw me in case you have any questions."

Granato had offers from Rice and Houston and interest from multiple schools from coast to coast, including Texas A&M, Maryland, Houston, TCU and Yale. He thought Rice's gesture was extremely creative, but he also recognized that the program really wanted him. Really, really wanted him.

"I mean it was really funny honestly," Granato said. "It was just so crazy how hard they recruited me."

When asked about the cat's thoughts, Granato said: "She didn't care. She doesn't care about anything."

How often can someone admit a cat helped to get him a scholarship? So much for dogs being man's best friend in the Granato home.

All jokes aside, Rice is getting a quarterback who put up solid numbers en route to winning Texas' Southwest Preparatory Conference state championship last season. Granato threw for nearly 3,400 yards and 42 touchdowns.

Quote from: PDH on May 16, 2014, 11:05:42 PM
Wyoming changed coaches because things went badly here.  Now there is a rebuilding year.  I hope someday there isn't a rebuilding year and Wyoming can be successful.

In the end, there isn't enough beer to be a happy Wyoming fan.

Quote from: alfred russel on May 17, 2014, 08:03:06 AM

Is that why wyoming has so much meth?

Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2014, 09:50:26 PM
So you are saying Michigan had a top 10 team that year?

Quote from: grumbler on May 31, 2014, 08:47:24 AM

Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2014, 09:50:26 PM
So you are saying Michigan had a top 10 team that year?

Yes, Michigan was a top 10 team the very first year they competed.  In fact, they didn't give up a single point that year.

Quote from: alfred russel on May 31, 2014, 01:36:06 PM
A truly dominating defense, but the offense was poor with no touchdowns or field goals. If not for a very controversial decision to allow Michigan to kick an extra point despite not scoring a touchdown, Michigan would not have scored all season.

QuoteOhio State fires band director Jonathan Waters over 'sexualized' culture

Ohio State University has fired the director of its marching band and is expanding an internal investigation that uncovered a deep culture of sexual harassment among students that reportedly has existed for years.

The two-month investigation, triggered by the complaint of a parent, revealed a cascade of evidence that students routinely harassed one another –– often directed at new band members by older students –– and that director Jonathan Waters knew about it or should have known.

Waters, 38, was ousted from his post effective today, OSU President Michael V. Drake said. Details of the investigation are laid out in a 23-page report obtained by The Dispatch.

QuoteWhen asked to estimate how many current nicknames are sexual or offensive, Waters responded that "fifty percent" probably were "questionable." When asked whether he thought such sexual nicknames are appropriate, Waters answered, "No." When asked why he then tolerates such sexual nicknames, Waters replied, "Good point."


Tricks
Witnesses stated that "tricks" are acts individual Band members perform, either on command or at  their own volition. Several witnesses described how tricks are assigned to rookies, and often are performed throughout their entire tenure in the Band. The tricks are usually connected to the students' assigned nicknames. Several witnesses provided examples of sexually explicit tricks assigned to and performed by new Band members given sexually explicit nicknames. Examples of tricks include:

A female student sitting on laps and pretending to orgasm. This included her sitting on her younger brother's lap and pretending to orgasm on "make the Band night." Her nickname was "Squirt."

A female student thumping the ground with her foot and pretending to orgasm. Her nickname was "Thumper."

   Two females rubbing their chests together. Their nicknames were "Jewoobs" and "Tiggles."

   A male student conducting a full-body demonstration of a flaccid penis becoming erect and spitting candy. This trick was also occasionally performed with another female student who pretended to stimulate the male student. His nickname was "Jizzy."
   
A male student stamping other students' foreheads with a penis stamp. His nickname was "Mushroom Stamp."

A male student chanting, "haaaay, we want some pusssaay." His nickname was "Captain Dildo."

A female student pretending to be a vibrating sex toy. Her nickname was "ERV", which stood for "E Row Vibrator."
...
In addition, as recently as September 2013, a series of events related to the University of California game demonstrate Waters' notice of a hostile environment. Pam Bork, Physical Therapy Manager with Student Health Services who volunteered for 18 years with the Band, resigned from the Band after the game because of students' alcohol abuse and Waters' reluctance to address the problem.

Bork reported to Waters that students were drinking excessively on the trip. She stated that Waters did not want to discuss the topic of drinking with the Marching Band and suggested that she should do so. On that bus trip, she said to Waters: "If I have to hear the word 'penis' or 'vagina' one more time, I'm going to scream." According to Bork, she also witnessed a "flying 69" being performed on her bus, which is also the bus Waters monitored. Bork relayed that other students (non-Band members) who were on this bus were "horrified" by this atmosphere. Bork added that she was concerned that someone would get hurt and that she quit the Band because she believed "something bad was going to happen." Bork then referenced a sexual assault that had occurred as what she feared could come to pass.

The staff interpreted Bork's concern as being limited to drinking. Smith stated that the students' alcohol consumption bothered Bork. He added that she was concerned she would lose her license if someone became seriously ill because of alcohol poisoning. Hoch stated that they followed up on Bork's report of alcohol consumption and did not find any problems. 

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 25, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Much less funny: The two shitheels who got arrested and thrown off the team for sexually assaulting a student.

Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2014, 06:11:01 PM
Okay, that's funny: https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/yahoo-sports-minute/longhorns-misspell--texas--in-their-2014-football-media-guide-041956080.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/yahoo-sports-minute/longhorns-misspell--texas--in-their-2014-football-media-guide-041956080.html)

Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2014, 07:36:53 PM
Bad couple of days for Texas football, but it happens,

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 25, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Much less funny: The two shitheels who got arrested and thrown off the team for sexually assaulting a student.

Quote from: Valmy on July 25, 2014, 07:55:40 PM

Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2014, 07:36:53 PM
Bad couple of days for Texas football, but it happens,

I was bummed to see these guys all fall on their asses and act like punks but proud to see Strong deal with it like this.

Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2014, 07:36:53 PM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 25, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Much less funny: The two shitheels who got arrested and thrown off the team for sexually assaulting a student.

I wasn't gonna even go there.  5 Texas players kicked off the team for various reasons  (plus one medical) in the last 48 hours.  Bad couple of days for Texas football, but it happens,  especially when you scoff at this kind of thing like alfred russel does.

*LOL  excessive drinking on road trips that leads to sexual assaults?  LOL LOL*

Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2014, 07:36:53 PM
I wasn't gonna even go there.  5 Texas players kicked off the team for various reasons  (plus one medical) in the last 48 hours.  Bad couple of days for Texas football, but it happens,  especially when you scoff at this kind of thing like alfred russel does.

*LOL  excessive drinking on road trips that leads to sexual assaults?  LOL LOL*

QuoteDid you read the affidavit?  Fuck those guys man.  I always thought Sanders was a bit of a tool but nothing like that.

Quote from: alfred russel on July 28, 2014, 07:25:32 PM
I think we learned the true nature of the michigan coaching staff in that video. She was assigned to the skins team because the coaches "forgot" she had to wear a shirt? More likely she was invited to the camp as a ploy to see a way underage girl without a shirt on.

Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2014, 05:13:10 PM
So, Seedy, are you torn by the fact that Ralpie-boy is going to be on the opposite sidelines for the Rutgers game this fall?  I know Friedgen was a favorite of yours at Maryland (as he was one of mine) and it is weird that a coach gets fired in the same season he wins a conference coach of the year award, but do you forgive his "I burned my diploma" act and his decision to coach for a conference foe?

I am torn on this one.  I like the guy, but don't much like Rutgers and wish they and the Terps well....






... away from the Big Ten.

Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2014, 04:20:43 PM
Huh surprised Tim didn't mention the Power five conferences getting the right to write their own rule book.  With the SEC writing the rules College Sports is about to enter a new golden age.

So when David and Henry get this letter:

(snip)
It will come with two cars and a contract for one million dollars, being the league minimum by then.

Quote from: grumbler on August 08, 2014, 04:30:30 PM
Title IX being what it is, if every football recruit gets offered a million dollars to come and play, every women's volleyball recruit will have to get offered a million dollars, as well.

Quote from: derspiess on August 08, 2014, 04:34:45 PM

Quote from: grumbler on August 08, 2014, 04:30:30 PM
Title IX being what it is, if every football recruit gets offered a million dollars to come and play, every women's volleyball recruit will have to get offered a million dollars, as well.

You hardly ever hear it mentioned, but yeah that is going to cause some really odd side effects.

Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2014, 04:38:12 PM
Actually I tend to see that as the first argument against paying the players.  But seriously yeah each and every scholarship from swimming to field hockey will probably now be getting stipends and other goodies (or a portion depending on what percent of an athletic scholarship they have).  The students who get scholarships for something stupid like academics will sure feel silly.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 09, 2014, 02:01:10 AM
$50 even money, or any amount you wish to wager, that the decision survives appeal.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 09, 2014, 02:01:10 AM
$50 even money, or any amount you wish to wager, that the decision survives appeal.

Quote from: grumbler on August 09, 2014, 06:52:12 AM

I'm not sure what there is to appeal, or who would want to appeal.  The decision is a great one for the NCAA, and probably a satisfactory one for the O'Bannon crowd.  The biggest gripe people are having, I think, is the semi-arbitrary $5,000 number, but that's not a hard-and-fast number and judges sometimes need to put out arbitrary numbers - that's just what they do.  I agree that it survives appeal.

QuoteA federal judge ruled Friday that the NCAA's rules prohibiting athletes from being paid for use of their names, images and likeness violate antitrust law because they "unreasonably restrain trade." The ruling in the five-year case of the Ed O'Bannon lawsuit allows for trust funds to be established for athletes to share in licensing revenue.

In a 99-page opinion, U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken issued an injunction that will prevent the NCAA "from enforcing any rules or bylaws that would prohibit its member schools and conferences from offering their FBS football or Division I basketball recruits a limited share of the revenues generated from the use of their names, images and likenesses in addition to a full grant-in-aid." Wilken said the injunction will not prevent the NCAA from implementing rules capping the amount of money that may be paid to college athletes while they are enrolled in school, but the NCAA will not be allowed to set the cap below the cost of attendance.

O'Bannon decision signals the end of the collegiate model
The injunction will also prohibit the NCAA from "enforcing any rules to prevent its member schools and conferences from offering to deposit a limited share of licensing revenue in trust for their FBS football and Division I basketball recruits, payable when they leave school or their eligibility expires," Wilken wrote. Her injunction will allow the NCAA to set a cap on the trust fund at less than $5,000 in 2014 dollars for every year an athlete remains academically eligible to compete. The money would be payable to athletes upon expiration of their athletic eligibility or graduation, whichever comes first. She ruled schools could offer lower amounts of compensation if they want, but they can't "unlawfully conspire with each other in setting these amounts."

Wilken stopped short of allowing athletes to receive money for endorsements, which was one of the proposals by the O'Bannon plaintiffs. "Allowing student-athletes to endorse commercial products would undermine the efforts of both the NCAA and its member schools to protect against the 'commercial exploitation' of student-athletes," Wilken wrote.

Also, Wilken did not prevent the NCAA from creating rules that prohibit athletes from selling their name, image and likeness rights individually. "The NCAA has produced sufficient evidence to support an inference that some circumscribed restrictions on student-athlete compensation may yield pro-competitive benefits," she wrote.

Wilken said the injunction will not be stayed pending any appeal of her order, but won't take effect until the start of the next football and basketball recruiting cycles. She said the injunction will not affect any recruit who will enroll in college before July 1, 2016. Both sides previously said they expected Wilken's decision to be appealed no matter how she ruled.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs and one outside legal expert described Friday's outcome as a significant defeat for the NCAA, which said it disagreed with Wilken's ruling.

"We note that the Court's decision sets limits on compensation, but are reviewing the full decision and will provide further comment later," NCAA chief legal officer Donald Remy said in a statement. "As evidenced by yesterday's Board of Directors action, the NCAA is committed to fully supporting student-athletes."

On Thursday, the NCAA Division I Board of Directors passed a new model that will allow the five major conferences to create their own legislation to benefit athletes, such as a cost-of-attendance stipend above their current scholarship amount.

Bill Isaacson, a lead attorney for the O'Bannon plaintiffs, said the ruling is a "major step towards decency for college athletes." The decision will allow conferences and schools, if they choose to do so, to compete for recruits by providing up to a full cost of attendance plus up to $5,000 in licensing revenue, Issacson said.

"That's reasonable but significant sharing for athletes given the billions in revenues that schools earn from their football and basketball players," Isaacson said. "Now, what's the full cost of attendance and why is the NCAA fighting at this point? When college football and basketball fans pick up the paper and it says athletes can share in revenue for the full cost of education and a trust fund, why would anybody be bothered by that?"

The plaintiffs are allowed to recover their costs from the NCAA. A previous document in a related case listed those costs at exceeding $30 million. Isaacson would only say legal costs for the plaintiffs are in the "millions."

Sonny Vaccaro, the former shoe marketer and longtime NCAA critic who spearheaded the O'Bannon lawsuit, said he's so happy by the ruling that he's "incoherent."

"I'm never at a loss of words, but I just can't explain it to you," Vaccaro said of his emotions. "It's like that impossible dream thing. Don Quixote finally got it. (Wilken) took out the word amateurism for the NCAA. To me, the ones who are going to benefit are the ones who don't even know we won today, the kids of the future. I feel very good about that."

O'Bannon, the former UCLA basketball star who became the face of the case, said he is happy there's finally a resolution and that players can use their likeness to be paid.

"I think the players will have a little more control over what goes on," O'Bannon said. "To me, it boggles the mind that billions of dollars are made and the players -- the people that are actually doing a lot of the work to make these billions of dollars -- don't see any of it."

Judge: Market exists for players' NILs on live TV
In a key part of the opinion, Wilken ruled that a group market exists in live television broadcasts for college athletes' names, images and likenesses (NILs).

"The court finds that a submarket exists in which television networks seek to acquire group licenses to use FBS football and Division I basketball players' names, images and likenesses in live game telecasts," Wilken wrote. "Television networks frequently enter into licensing agreements to use the intellectual property of schools, conferences and event organizers -- such as the NCAA or a bowl committee -- in live telecasts of football and basketball games. In these agreements, the network often seeks to acquire the rights to use the names, images and likenesses of the participating student-athletes during the telecast."

In ruling that a group market exists for live TV broadcasts, Wilken cited television contracts produced by the plaintiffs, such as old NCAA tournament contracts with CBS and an old BCS deal with Fox. She said testimony by former CBS Sports president Neal Pilson that networks enter into agreements with event organizers for access to facilities is "not convincing."

Wilken noted that Pilson, an expert witness for the NCAA, admitted that "broadcasters must acquire certain rights even from visiting teams who do not control access to the event facility. ... He also acknowledged that broadcasting agreements ... sometimes refer expressly to name, image and likeness 'rights.'"

Michael Hausfeld, a lead attorney for the O'Bannon plaintiffs, said his team will now consider whether to take any legal action against networks for use of players' NILs.

"It's an open field right now because of the antitrust violation," Hausfeld said. "We're going to have to take a look at what our next letter might be to ESPN or CBS or Turner. We've been looking at it. For example, maybe we don't go to the larger networks, but go right to the Big Ten Network or Pac-12 Network. Here you have a conference with a most direct relationship to an athlete. They're clearly use the name, image and likeness."

In determining that the NCAA violates antitrust law, Wilken cited the plaintiffs' economic expert, Roger Noll, 30 times in the ruling and overwhelmingly agreed with his antitrust analysis. She also noted damaging testimony from one of the NCAA's own economic experts, Daniel Rubinfeld.

"Although he opined that this restraint was lawful because it serves procompetitive purposes, he never denied that the NCAA restricts competition among its members for recruits," Wilken wrote. "In fact, his own economics textbook specifically refers to the NCAA as a 'cartel,' which he defined during his testimony as a 'group of firms that impose a restraint.'"

Wilken wrote that she "rejects" the theories of another NCAA economic expert, Lauren Stiroh, who testified that the plaintiffs did not prove that college athletes were being harmed by the restraints. Evidence in the case demonstrates that athletes "are harmed by the price-fixing agreement" by the schools, Wilken wrote.

When a recruit decides to play at a school, the school provides tuition, room and board, fees and book expenses that often are little or no cost to the school, Wilken wrote. In return, she said, the recruit provides his athletic performance and the use of his name, image and likeness.

"However, the schools agree to value the latter at zero by agreeing not to compete with each other to credit any other value to the recruit in the exchange," Wilken wrote. "This is an anticompetitive effect."

Wilken's decision on what athletes receive in exchange for their services may impact other antitrust lawsuits that are before her. The NCAA's financial limits on scholarships being challenged in a scholarship case, where the damages could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars if those sets of plaintiffs win. The NCAA and many Division I conferences, who are also being sued, must respond to Wilken by Aug. 20 in the scholarship case.

Hausfeld said Wilken's ruling solves the antitrust scholarship lawsuits with one exception: "Now they can go back and collect damages." Hausfeld said the NCAA is in a difficult spot about appealing the O'Bannon ruling.

"What are they going to appeal?" Hausfeld said. "This is what at least the major conferences professed they want to do (pay players cost of attendance) and they can't because of the cartel. The judge just said not only am I letting you five do it, I'm telling everybody it's an open field. You've got no cover not to do this."

There's a perception by some in the public since the ruling that the NCAA got off easy with Wilken's injunction of a $5,000-per-year cap on licensing revenue per player.

"The problem with some lawyers is they're not satisfied with what they get," Hausfeld said. "Could it have been more? Possibly. Is it enough? When you add that amount per year per athlete for all of the schools, you're talking $300 to $500 million, if not more. That's not a bad chunk."

'Big loss' for NCAA moving forward
Wilken struck down the NCAA's justifications for preventing college athletes from being paid, including amateurism, competitive balance and the integration of athletics and academics. Amateurism has been the NCAA's frequent defense of why college sports is popular and thus why the association can legally avoid allowing players to be paid.

"This evidence demonstrates that the NCAA's restrictions on student-athlete pay is not the driving force behind consumer interest in FBS football and Division I basketball," Wilken wrote. "Thus, while consumer preferences might justify certain limited restraints on student-athlete compensation, they do not justify the rigid restrictions challenged in this case."

Wilken wrote that the NCAA's current rules demonstrate "the NCAA does not consistently adhere to a single definition of amateurism."

She noted that under NCAA rules, a tennis recruit can preserve amateur status by accepting tens of thousands of dollars in prize money before enrolling in college, yet a track and field recruit would forfeit his eligibility if he or she did the same. Also, Wilken said, a football player is deemed an amateur by accepting a Pell grant that exceeds his total financial aid package above the cost of attendance, yet he would not be an amateur if he instead received the same amount of money for use of his name, image and likeness in live broadcasts.

"Such inconsistencies are not indicative of 'core principles,'" Wilken wrote.

In disagreeing with the NCAA's argument that competitive balance justifies not paying players, Wilken noted the average salary for a head football coach exceeds $1.5 million. She also cited testimony by NCAA president Mark Emmert in which he said it's not the NCAA's mission to take away advantages universities have made in building up their facilities.

"The fact that high-revenue schools are able to spend freely in these other areas cancels out whatever leveling effect the restrictions on student-athlete pay might otherwise have," Wilken wrote. "The NCAA does not do anything to rein in spending by the high-revenue schools or minimize existing disparities in revenue and recruiting."

When addressing the NCAA's defense about the integration of academics and athletics, Wilken wrote it's not clear "why paying student-athletes would be any more problematic for campus relations than paying other students who provide services to the university, such as members of the student government or school newspaper."

Wilken added that "certain limited restrictions on student-athlete compensation may help to integrate student-athletes into the academic communities of their schools, which may in turn improve the schools' college education product."

Wilken determined it's "not credible" schools would leave FBS and Division I for financial reasons if players could be paid, another frequent defense brought by the NCAA. Wilken cited testimony by some of the NCAA's own witnesses, such as from South Carolina president Harris Pastides and Conference USA commissioner Britton Banowsky, who expressed skepticism that universities would leave Division I if the restrictions were removed.

Rutgers law professor Michael Carrier, who has closely followed the O'Bannon case, said the ruling is a "big loss" for the NCAA.

"All of the defenses about amateurism and competitive balance the NCAA had been boasting about for years, if not decades, have been washed away in this incredibly thorough opinion," Carrier said. "There is lots of litigation going on and this is something plaintiffs can use in every case now. You have a comprehensive opinion that thoroughly looks at the justifications and thoroughly strikes them down. The NCAA may disagree, but the default position now is the NCAA does not have its amateurism defense position to stand behind."

Said Isaacson, a lawyer for the O'Bannon plaintiffs: "There will be a lot of lawyers reading this opinion moving forward."

Near the end of the O'Bannon ruling, Wilken acknowledged the "conflicting opinions" about the best policies to apply in regulating college sports and described avenues for course corrections.

"To the extent other criticisms have been levied against the NCAA and college policies and practices, those are not raised and cannot be remedied on the antitrust causes of action in this lawsuit," Wilken wrote. "It is likely that the challenged restraints, as well as other perceived inequities in college athletics and higher education generally, could be better addressed as a remedy for the antitrust violations found here. Such reforms and remedies could be undertaken by the NCAA, its member schools and conferences, or Congress."

But that wasn't Wilken's task in this case. Pending appeals, it's now up to others to sort through the ramifications of Wilken's landmark decision.

"The NCAA will hopefully never be the same," Hausfeld said. "It's going to go through a metamorphosis and if it approaches it wisely, it should sit down and discuss with all the interested entities how best to form a new way going forward."

Quote from: sbr on August 09, 2014, 10:16:14 AM
This is a decent article on the decision

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24653743/obannon-judge-rules-ncaa-violates-antitrust-law 

QuoteO'Bannon decision signals the end of the collegiate model

Quote from: grumbler on August 09, 2014, 11:19:50 AM

Not at all.  It signals the end of the most significant challenge to the college model, with the college model surviving intact.  If the players had been allowed to negotiate individually for endorsement contracts and the like, as the plaintiffs sought, that would have been the end of the college model.  The judge explicitly rejected that, understanding that all that was was an attempt to legalize the bag men.

The O'Bannon lawyers had already realized the fatal flaws in their case for restitution, and dropped that, so the NCAA is liable only for court costs.  That's also a win for them, compared to what they faced at the start of the case.  The ongoing costs to any given university will be, at max, $500,000 a year (100 football and basketball scholarships times $5,000 per year each).  That's peanuts to the major programs - probably less than they spend for practice footballs and basketballs.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 09, 2014, 11:28:45 AM
I agree with grumbler on this.

It is basically in a round about way giving the big schools what they wanted on the cost of attendance debate a year or so ago.

Quote from: grumbler on August 09, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 09, 2014, 11:28:45 AM
I agree with grumbler on this.

It is basically in a round about way giving the big schools what they wanted on the cost of attendance debate a year or so ago.

Actually, they got that with the autonomy vote, so this is just gravy.  It'll suck for Indiana State, but fuck them - Indiana State led the charge against being fair to student athletes when all of this could have been avoided.

QuoteRutgers law professor Michael Carrier, who has closely followed the O'Bannon case, said the ruling is a "big loss" for the NCAA.

"All of the defenses about amateurism and competitive balance the NCAA had been boasting about for years, if not decades, have been washed away in this incredibly thorough opinion," Carrier said. "There is lots of litigation going on and this is something plaintiffs can use in every case now. You have a comprehensive opinion that thoroughly looks at the justifications and thoroughly strikes them down. The NCAA may disagree, but the default position now is the NCAA does not have its amateurism defense position to stand behind."

Quote from: alfred russel on August 09, 2014, 12:56:10 PM
On the other hand, if I understand the ruling correctly, the ruling bypasses title IX concerns. Since the money comes out of media deals, sports without them don't have to give their women anything. Sorry every single women's athlete (possibly excluding a very small handful of basketball players). I doubt the colleges could have done this so effectively without an uproar.

Quote from: sbr on August 09, 2014, 01:00:58 PM
I agree that this specific case was about as good a loss as the NCAA could have hoped for.

The problem as I see it, is that this is not the endgame of anti-trust litigation against the NCAA but the beginning (or at least the start of a new phase) and in the opening move the judge almost completely shredded the NCAA's version of amateurism.

QuoteRutgers law professor Michael Carrier, who has closely followed the O'Bannon case, said the ruling is a "big loss" for the NCAA.

"All of the defenses about amateurism and competitive balance the NCAA had been boasting about for years, if not decades, have been washed away in this incredibly thorough opinion," Carrier said. "There is lots of litigation going on and this is something plaintiffs can use in every case now. You have a comprehensive opinion that thoroughly looks at the justifications and thoroughly strikes them down. The NCAA may disagree, but the default position now is the NCAA does not have its amateurism defense position to stand behind."

QuoteIt's one thing to be candid and honest.

It's another to arm your enemy with candor and honesty.

That's exactly what West Virginia coach Dana Holgorsen has done in saying that lying to recruits is business as usual in college coaching. According to the Twitter feed of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's West Virginia beat writer, Stephen J. Nesbitt, Holgorsen said: "You lie in recruiting a bunch. That's just kind of part of it. You become a salesman."

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 09:10:46 AM
I really like Ted Miller. He does a outstanding job covering the Pac-12.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 13, 2014, 09:25:15 AM

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 09:10:46 AM
I really like Ted Miller. He does a outstanding job covering the Pac-12.

Of course you do. He is to the Pac 12 what MSNBC is to the Democrats and Fox News is to Republicans.

To be fair, all the conference based bloggers for ESPN are homers for the conferences on which they "report." Maybe excluding the ACC. She seems to be gone now, but poor Heather Dinich seemed to lose her enthusiasm after having to cover a gazillion out of conference losses to the SEC and consistent 2-6 bowl records.

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 09:53:07 AM
OK, whatever. Thanks for your telling insight, I am glad we have someone around who can state the obvious to everyone.

Any comment on the actual content, or do you limit your contributions to just trolling?

Quote from: alfred russel on August 13, 2014, 10:07:52 AM

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 09:53:07 AM
OK, whatever. Thanks for your telling insight, I am glad we have someone around who can state the obvious to everyone.

Any comment on the actual content, or do you limit your contributions to just trolling?

A guy who is apparently paid to be a fanboy of the Pac 12 writes an article about how awesome it is? That isn't trolling, that is what I read.

Quote

FWIW, I think the Pac 12 is the second best conference, whatever that means.

Quote
I'm just not sure what kind of posts you want. The problem the Pac 12 has, imo, is that while there is a ton of talent on the west coast, it tends to be distributed among a lot of teams. There is diminished ability to field the really great teams to win championships, while at the same time the teams that begin to separate themselves have a tough schedule to get through.

Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2014, 10:29:42 AM
The PAC 12 is like an all-star coaching line up I will say.  I mean geez they have Mike Leach as one of the scrubs.

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
If one were to measure the issue by trolls ability to pick out specific games that conference teams lost, then you would have a great point.

Of course, if you look at overall conference OOC schedules, rather than seeing if you can find any examples where a "top team" lost any game at any point, then of course you see a different picture.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 13, 2014, 11:41:09 AM
So basically, if the Pac 12 consistently had teams that were among the 5 best in the country, and even 4-5 teams in the top 10, but there were always a couple of teams better...sorry but the Pac 12 doesn't deserve teams in the title game.

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 12:31:31 PM
The discussion is around whether or not the Pac-12 SOS, title game, and playing 9 conference games instead of loading up with yet another patsy lame ass team in a fourth OOC game is going to hurt their chances of placing a team into a 4 slot playoff, as it HAS hurt their chances of getting teams into BCS games in the past.

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 01:28:47 PM
I did not pull them as an example - you did. Of course you did, because it was a year where the champion lost a OOC game, they very definition of cherry picking.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 13, 2014, 01:26:31 PM
It isn't a case of whether the Pac 12 does well, it is a case of whether the best team in the Pac 12 can post a strong case to be the best in the country.

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 01:34:15 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 13, 2014, 01:26:31 PM
It isn't a case of whether the Pac 12 does well, it is a case of whether the best team in the Pac 12 can post a strong case to be the best in the country.

The question I've posed all along (and specifially in this case) is whether or not the Pac-12 gets a fair shot at spots in BCS games, and in this case, whether they will get a fair shot at a spot in the 4 team playoff. givent he weight that the human polls gives to W-L without much consideration given to SOS?

Like I said, I don't think the Pac-12 should change, even if it does reduce their chances of getting into those games. I think it is a small price to pay for getting to see better football.

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 01:59:13 PM
Indeed. They have said that SOS will be paramount, which should actually give the Pac-12 a *better* shot than the other conferences, if in fact they actually follow through.

I suspect, however, that the pressure to make sure the SEC gets over-represented will be too great for that to happen. Which is really too bad, since if they actually do do what they claim they are going to do, it will push everyone to play tougher schedules, whether that be a 9 game conference schedule, or at least schedule a real BCS conference quality school for that fourth OOC game.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 13, 2014, 03:14:01 PM

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 01:59:13 PM
Indeed. They have said that SOS will be paramount, which should actually give the Pac-12 a *better* shot than the other conferences, if in fact they actually follow through.

I suspect, however, that the pressure to make sure the SEC gets over-represented will be too great for that to happen. Which is really too bad, since if they actually do do what they claim they are going to do, it will push everyone to play tougher schedules, whether that be a 9 game conference schedule, or at least schedule a real BCS conference quality school for that fourth OOC game.

It isn't clear that there should be a hard and fast rule that 8 SEC games plus a championship is easier than 9 Pac 12 plus a championship. Especially considered that some (but not all) Pac 12 teams have a watered down out of conference schedule.

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 13, 2014, 04:52:44 PM
Real football ends at the Plains.

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 13, 2014, 04:56:43 PM
I'm just glad Boise St. is back to being nothing again. I was sick of those damn scrubs and that stupid blue field.

Quote from: derspiess on August 13, 2014, 04:57:34 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 13, 2014, 04:56:43 PM
I'm just glad Boise St. is back to being nothing again. I was sick of those damn scrubs and that stupid blue field.

And the Timmays.  Don't forget the Timmays.

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 13, 2014, 04:52:44 PM
Real football ends at the Plains.

Quote from: Barrister on August 13, 2014, 05:01:16 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 13, 2014, 04:52:44 PM
Real football ends at the Plains.

Real football only has three downs.  :cool:

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 04:15:03 PM

I think all other things being equal, a team that plays 9 conference games is playing a tougher schedule that a team that is playing 8, assuming we are talking about the major conferences. Since the stats show that the Pac-12 is basically a wash compared to the SEC in strength of schools overall (Sagarin ranks last year as SEC-West, Pac-12 North, Pac12 South, SEC East), then it seems pretty clear that replacing a game against a conference opponent with a game against a weak OOC opponent is almost certainly going to mean an easier SOS.

Unless you are arguing that overall playing SEC teams is so much harder that it is a wash, but the stats clearly do NOT show that.

But if you are just saying that there isn't any reason to assume that a given team in the Pac-12 is going to have a stronger SOS vs a given team in the SEC, then no argument from me. Of course it may very well be the case that any particular team could happen to have a higher SOS based on what actual teams they play, but overall it is clear that the Pac-12 has made the hardest road to follow with their "contenders" playing 10 conference opponents to other conferences 9 (with the tenth replaced with a patsy, by and large).

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 11:32:49 PM
Why would we only consider LSU or Auburn?

We don't have to imagine any of this. The numbers are right there.

LSU SOS in 2013: 25
Auburn SOS: 13
Alabama: 39
Arkansas: 12
Missouri: 24

Stanford: 1
Oregon: 29
UCLA: 7
Washington: 17
Arizona State: 2


Is the schedules in the Pac-12 tougher? Survey says: Uhh, duh. It isn't even very close. Nor should you expect it to be - how could replacing a conference opponent with some patsy result in anything else?

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 10:59:33 AM

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2014, 11:32:49 PM
Why would we only consider LSU or Auburn?

We don't have to imagine any of this. The numbers are right there.

LSU SOS in 2013: 25
Auburn SOS: 13
Alabama: 39
Arkansas: 12
Missouri: 24

Stanford: 1
Oregon: 29
UCLA: 7
Washington: 17
Arizona State: 2


Is the schedules in the Pac-12 tougher? Survey says: Uhh, duh. It isn't even very close. Nor should you expect it to be - how could replacing a conference opponent with some patsy result in anything else?

A lot depends on how you compute strength of schedule, but regardless, that shows exactly what I thought it would. Some SEC teams have tougher schedules than some Pac 12 schools, and vice versa.

QuoteSo are 6 games in the SEC West, 1 game against Florida or UGA, and 1 random game in the SEC East more challenging than 9 in the Pac 12?

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
LSU having to play Texas A&M

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
I disagree. LSU having to play Texas A&M, Alabama, Auburn, and Florida every year is a rather formidable conference slate.

Quote
Their rating last year is going to be hurt by not playing anyone good out of conference

Quote
, and in general Pac 12 schools play stronger out of conference schedules.

Strip out the out of conference games from the rating system, and then we can discuss exactly how the rankings are being produced. Then you might start to have a definitive case to make. My subjective opinion, and I think the opinion of most people that follow the sport, is that LSU running the conference schedule is at least as difficult as a generic Pac 12 team doing the same.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
I for one applaud Berkut's ability to maintain consistency in sanity by debating someone who "ages" Miami teams.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 14, 2014, 02:36:21 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
I for one applaud Berkut's ability to maintain consistency in sanity by debating someone who "ages" Miami teams.

Heh, Berkut lives for this stuff. And the FSU win has revitalized him.

You watch, if the champ this year comes from the ACC, Big 10 or Big 12, he'll be out there next year arguing the Pac is clearly the best conference.

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 02:12:27 PM

And Oregon having to play Stanford, UCLA, and USC is not? The numbers say that in fact it is just as formidable.

And more importantly, Oregon does not get to replace a game against Stanford or Washington or Arizona State with a game against Southeast Mississippi State School of Mines.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
I for one applaud Berkut's ability to maintain consistency in sanity by debating someone who "ages" Miami teams.

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 03:42:12 PM

If all college football was run like the Pac12 and Big10, it would be a greatly improved product. If it was all run like the SEC, I would quit watching.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 04:30:39 PM

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 02:12:27 PM

And Oregon having to play Stanford, UCLA, and USC is not? The numbers say that in fact it is just as formidable.

And more importantly, Oregon does not get to replace a game against Stanford or Washington or Arizona State with a game against Southeast Mississippi State School of Mines.

What numbers are you talking about?

Quote
If we are talking about the challenge of qualifying for a national title game, the you are talking about the odds of achieving perfection or close to it. That is very different than the odds of getting into a bowl game.

I would think that for a national title contender, replacing Washington And Arizona State with Alabama and the Southeast Mississippi State School of Mines would be a bad trade (from the perspective of ease of running the table). 

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 04:37:27 PM

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 03:42:12 PM

If all college football was run like the Pac12 and Big10, it would be a greatly improved product. If it was all run like the SEC, I would quit watching.

They are all run the exact same way. It's all about $$$ with a bit of college politics and PR posturing.

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 05:55:47 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 04:37:27 PM

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 03:42:12 PM

If all college football was run like the Pac12 and Big10, it would be a greatly improved product. If it was all run like the SEC, I would quit watching.

They are all run the exact same way. It's all about $$$ with a bit of college politics and PR posturing.

Except that they are rather obviously not all run the same way, or everyone would have the same number of conference and non-conference games.

QED.

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 05:54:58 PM

More cherry picking. How about replacing Missouri and FCS Chumpstate with Oregon and Stanford?

Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2014, 06:30:00 PM
Man I cannot believe a Canes fan is a shrill for the SEC.  After the Gators were too chickenshit to play Miami once they got good I figured you had lost all respect for them.  Just another famous example of the SEC being too scared to play real competition.  Except LSU they play everybody.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 06:39:03 PM

Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2014, 06:30:00 PM
Man I cannot believe a Canes fan is a shrill for the SEC.  After the Gators were too chickenshit to play Miami once they got good I figured you had lost all respect for them.  Just another famous example of the SEC being too scared to play real competition.  Except LSU they play everybody.

I'm not a shill for the SEC.

Quote
But if you can't give them credit for being the best conference when the win 7 of 8 national titles, what is the point of playing the game?

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 06:05:19 PM
They are all run the exact same way.

Quote from: also alfred russel
They have different fan bases with different markets which pushes them to schedule differently.

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 08:14:10 PM

What drugs are you on?

Where in this thread has anyone ever claimed that the SEC is NOT the best conference?

Quote from: Berkut on August 14, 2014, 08:15:23 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 06:05:19 PM
They are all run the exact same way.

Quote from: also alfred russel
They have different fan bases with different markets which pushes them to schedule differently.

Your second statement disproves your first. You are wrong. Again.

Quote from: Berkut on August 15, 2014, 01:33:19 AM
My own team will have the SOS it deserves. And I am not particularly worried about our shot at a BCS bowl this year, much less the playoffs.

Such is the life of a non-bandwagon fan. You should try it sometime.

You are still bitter about '94, aren't you?

Quote from: alfred russel on August 14, 2014, 08:29:56 PM
What really confuses me is why Berkut is raging on scheduling when his own team has the following schedule:

UNLV
UTSA
Nevada

Quote from: alfred russel on August 15, 2014, 08:49:18 AM
The world has moved on since 94 berkut.

Quote from: Berkut on August 15, 2014, 09:04:32 AM
UTSA certainly is - if you aged the score of that game last year, Arizona lost.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2014, 09:12:51 AM
Andre Johnson finally snapped a little this offseason, but still ended up coming back to camp and all that instead of demanding a trade or something like he probably should have.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2014, 09:15:21 AM
No I didn't see it.  Vince Carter?  :lol:  I seem to have missed someone screwing up pretty bad.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 15, 2014, 09:58:07 AM
:lol: Would have been a helluva thing for the basketball team.

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
Big sex and academic fraud scandal seems to be going on at old Notre Dame. 

Quote from: PDH on August 15, 2014, 03:04:46 PM
So Wyoming has:  No QB.  No Offensive line.  No Defensive Line depth.

This is gonna be a long year...

Good thing I have so many other long years that this is the norm!

Quote from: PDH on August 15, 2014, 04:41:26 PM
I think it is only my quest.  I have tried to convince others that Wyoming being the Big 12 doormat is better than what we have now, but they aren't listening.  They don't understand traveling to Texas every other year to drink boiling water out of the bubblers.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 15, 2014, 03:47:56 PM

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
Big sex and academic fraud scandal seems to be going on at old Notre Dame. 

Since catholic girls don't put out until they are married, it is probably a gay sex scandal too.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 15, 2014, 03:47:56 PM
Since catholic girls don't put out until they are married,

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 16, 2014, 08:21:30 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 15, 2014, 03:47:56 PM
Since catholic girls don't put out until they are married,

:lol:

I'd accuse you of being ironic, but you're too sociopathic and Assburgery to conceptualize irony.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 16, 2014, 11:33:51 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 16, 2014, 08:21:30 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 15, 2014, 03:47:56 PM
Since catholic girls don't put out until they are married,

:lol:

I'd accuse you of being ironic, but you're too sociopathic and Assburgery to conceptualize irony.

Maybe you should reevaluate your assessment of my sociopathy and assburgery. :)

Quote from: katmai on August 16, 2014, 03:48:25 PM
Of the two of you only one says he went to Notte Dame, the other just wishes he had.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 15, 2014, 03:47:56 PM

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
Big sex and academic fraud scandal seems to be going on at old Notre Dame. 

Since catholic girls don't put out until after they are married, it is probably a gay sex scandal too.

QuoteThere is a big reason the other conferences can't [argue that they won't play nine conference games]: They don't want to.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 17, 2014, 10:19:54 PM
James Franklin is superficially an awesome coach.

Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2014, 10:54:53 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 17, 2014, 10:19:54 PM
James Franklin is superficially an awesome coach.

FTFY.

I'm not saying that he isn't a great coach, I am just saying that I am not sold yet.  He has the appearance of an excellent coach, but also the faint stench of a douchbag.  We'll see.  A certain Michigan coach was all bright and shiny at one point, but only 15 of 52 recruits in his touted 2009 and 2010 classes ever survived to be seniors.

Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2014, 11:41:01 PM
When Franklin beats an SEC team that wins more game than it loses, that will be the first time.  He did beat up the dead underbelly of the SEC, but I'm just not sure that makes him a great coach.  He can recruit so far, but we will see if that stands the test of time. 

And Charlie Weiss still makes more than Brian Kelly, so your example is misplaced.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 18, 2014, 12:05:36 AM
Actually, that isn't even true. I was just looking up Vandy's record. They beat UGA last year, and UGA had a winning recording in the SEC (5-3).

Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2014, 09:53:08 PM
BTW, Berkut, I noticed that your Pac-12 corrspondent is a bit behind the times.  He argued that

QuoteThere is a big reason the other conferences can't [argue that they won't play nine conference games]: They don't want to.

when the Big Ten is doing so next year.  They decided to do so the same year the Pac-12 decided to do so (and for the same reasons:  better football for the fans) but had to put it off for two years because they foolishly decided to add Maryland and Rutgers.

I agree with the argument that the Pac-12 is the second-best conference, though.  The Big Ten won't start challenging that until Michigan and Pen State return to form.  I think that this is the year Michigan starts the return to form, though, and wouldn't be completely flabbergasted if Penn State didn't start the march back this year as well.  I'm just not sold on Franklin yet.  Too much snake oil there.

Quote from: Berkut on August 18, 2014, 01:36:39 AM
I wish there was some way to knock the SEC off the throne, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Quote from: Berkut on August 18, 2014, 01:36:39 AM

But it is kind of annoying that we get to sit around speculating about who the 2nd best conference is...I think it is the Pac-12 right now, but I think the Pac-12 right now is stronger top to bottom than it has ever been, so I don't know that it will last necessarily.

I wish there was some way to knock the SEC off the throne, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Quote from: Berkut on August 18, 2014, 01:36:39 AM
I wish there was some way to knock the SEC off the throne, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2014, 10:00:24 AM
(1) four-year scholarships, so you won't see teams like Alabama and LSU taking scholarships away from the lowest-performing existing players to give them to more promising recruits, and

Quote from: alfred russel on August 19, 2014, 01:09:03 PM


In actually relevant news, Braxton Miller is out for the year. I imagine Jim Delany is crying under his desk at the moment. Urban Meyer is feeling chest pains and missing his family.

Quote from: grumbler on August 19, 2014, 05:09:10 PM
On the other hand, Notre Dame officials are delighted.  For a time, at least, no one is talking about the academic scandal that looks to cost them three starters and a second-string player.  If they have to forfeit the winning percentage crown over this, it will be even sweeter.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 19, 2014, 05:15:07 PM

Quote from: grumbler on August 19, 2014, 05:09:10 PM
On the other hand, Notre Dame officials are delighted.  For a time, at least, no one is talking about the academic scandal that looks to cost them three starters and a second-string player.  If they have to forfeit the winning percentage crown over this, it will be even sweeter.

Losing the players is all that matters. The all time winning percentage crown is stupid to begin with, and no one with a life cares about whether wins are vacated.

Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2014, 08:00:45 PM
To Miami fans no football of any note was played prior to 1980.

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 19, 2014, 01:58:49 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 19, 2014, 01:09:03 PM


In actually relevant news, Braxton Miller is out for the year. I imagine Jim Delany is crying under his desk at the moment. Urban Meyer is feeling chest pains and missing his family.

time for sad Urban:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gannett-cdn.com%2F-mm-%2Fb7d3f444056b264124b6be269d705aa09ea3a0f0%2Fc%3D8-0-653-486%26amp%3Br%3D490x368%2Flocal%2F-%2Fmedia%2FUSATODAY%2Fpromo%2F2013%2F12%2F08%2F%2F1386484790000-Ba8NovVCcAAoOv0.jpg&hash=80caa57262d4c8deaaa1aa30ac00bda901b40d60)

Quote from: alfred russel on August 19, 2014, 08:51:02 PM
I just don't care about vacating wins. Miami had to vacate a ton of wins and the collective response of the fan base was "can we vacate a few more of our shitty seasons too?" FSU had to vacate a bunch of wins and I never bothered to go back and taunt FSU fans for the wins they lost to Miami. They won on the field. Everyone saw it happen. What the record books say is really moot.

QuoteLosing the players ND looks like it will lose is a disaster though. That comes close to scuttling the season before it starts.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2014, 06:35:33 AM
Shame Notre Dame didn't display the same degree of institutional integrity with Dorsey4PathologicalLiar.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2014, 06:35:33 AM
Shame Notre Dame didn't display the same degree of institutional integrity with Dorsey4PathologicalLiar.

Quote from: grumbler on August 20, 2014, 06:11:50 AM
No one with a life believes that a vacated win becomes a win for the opponent.

QuoteI'd say that Rice and Purdue would become the only teams they would be clearly favored to beat if they lose those four guys.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 20, 2014, 08:51:01 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2014, 06:35:33 AM
Shame Notre Dame didn't display the same degree of institutional integrity with Dorsey4PathologicalLiar.

Glad to see you reaching the acceptance stage with me going to Notre Dame. :hug:

Quote from: katmai on August 20, 2014, 05:48:37 PM
Bring on the Wolverines!!!!!
Well in 2020 & 2021 :P

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 21, 2014, 06:20:41 PM
Texas and Michigan should play again.  That was a good game.

Quote from: grumbler on August 22, 2014, 12:47:48 PM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 21, 2014, 06:20:41 PM
Texas and Michigan should play again.  That was a good game.

Agreed.  Texas is pretty booked, though.  Michigan has one more "big series" to announce (in fact, they are behind the schedule for announcement) and there are rumors that it is Texas.  They'd be my #1 choice.  But not at JerryWorld.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2014, 01:37:53 PM
I'd say Maryland would be a nice tune-up game before Texas, but I don't think they'd make Michigan sweat enough.


Stupid school. :mad:

Quote from: Valmy on August 22, 2014, 01:56:10 PM
Man I was pissed when I found out the UCLA game is at JerryWorld.  Texas already plays the biggest game of the year in Dallas every year.  Don't take a home game against a top 10 team away from the hometown fans.

Quote from: Valmy on August 22, 2014, 01:56:10 PM
Man I was pissed when I found out the UCLA game is at JerryWorld.  Texas already plays the biggest game of the year in Dallas every year.  Don't take a home game against a top 10 team away from the hometown fans.

Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2014, 03:06:47 PM
Just checked my listings. After ESPN quit the cable market here, we still get college football, but no more College Game Day, it seems. :(

(And no pregame/half time shows for NFL, either)

:(

Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2014, 12:07:43 PM
So my Marshall friends are trying to talk me into going to their game at Miami (OH) Saturday.  It's the same time as the WVU game so I'd normally say no, but given how I'm about as unenthusiastic about this year's team as I've ever been and how I can always record them getting destroyed by Bama and watch it later, I'm tempted to go.

Funny thing is I was looking on Miami's site for ticket info.  Apparently you can get season tickets (6 home games) for as little as $75 :lol:

Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Anyone following the Josh Shaw story out of USC?

Formerly starting CB managed to get high ankle sprains on both ankles outside of football. Out indefinitely.

Depending on who you believe, he injured himself either

A) Bravely jumping from a second floor balcony to the ground and then crawling into a pool to heroically rescue his drowning nephew, or
B) Jumping out of window while engaging in a burglary of a apartment building, or
C) Something else.

USC must be really missing Pete Carroll right now.

Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2014, 01:37:46 PM
The $75 for Miami tickets is for 18-under.  You pay $95 if you're an adult (and of course more for "premium" seats).  Students don't have to pay to get into games at most/all US universities.

QuoteThroughout two a day practices, Freeze sends his "guy" (someone he trusts) up into Vaught Hemingway to look over the practice field with a camera phone and binoculars. When he sees the man take his post overlooking practice, Freeze yells at security, "Get that guy out of here! He can't be up there! Get rid of him!" Off the guards go, chasing the man away. Eventually, the players think nothing of this.

On the last day of two a day practices, Coach Freeze lets Paul Jackson in on his prank. Paul Jackson, of course, is the Strength Coach for the Ole Miss Rebels. With Coach Jackson in on the secret, they continue out to practice. As usual, Freeze's guy shows up to spy on practice. When Freeze sees the man, he yells out, "That's it! Forget security! Coach Jackson, get that camera and get that guy out of here, now!" Coach Jackson takes off running toward the stadium. The players go back to work, preparing for Oklahoma drills and other full contact drills.

As Coach Jackson begins to approach the man, Freeze exclaims to the team, "Look guys! Coach is about to get him!" Everyone looks up to see Coach Jackson knock the camera phone out of the man's hand and over the side of the stadium. The team begins to get excited and begins to cheer on their Strength Coach. The spy takes of running up the stadium with Coach Jackson in full pursuit. Players are screaming, "Get him Coach!" All eyes are on the chase that is taking place high up in the Vaught.

Now, what no one knows, except for Freeze, Jackson, and the spy, is that there is a dummy hidden atop the stadium. The dummy is dressed just like the spy. When the men reach the top, Coach Jackson hurls the dummy over the side of the stadium, seemingly sending the spy plummeting to the ground. You can hear a pin drop. The team goes from cheering to speechless. Immediately, Coach Freeze begins to shout, "Call the paramedics! Coaches, get these guys in the locker room now! No cell phones! Take their phones and don't let them talk to anyone!"

Now, with the players and the assistant coaches in the locker room flustered and bewildered, Freeze walks in. He looks over his team and begins to speak, "Okay guys, this is it. This is one of those All In moments. We have to protect Coach Jackson. We're going to bury the body, and we're going to bury the shovel."

The players faces are blank. Even a few freshman are heard whispering, "bury the body?!"

At this moment, Coach Jackson and the spy come rolling into the locker room. Practice is over, and the prank is a success. The team heads off to the movies. This is how two a day practices for the Ole Miss Rebels comes to a close in August of 2014. The End.

Quote from: grumbler on August 27, 2014, 06:25:27 PM
I'd say that the number of Div-1A schools that don't charge for student tickets is probably less than those that do.  Michigan charges $295 for season tickets; OSU $252; Alabama only sells half-season tickets at $10 per game.  Texas charges $175 for an entire years' worth of tickets in all sports.

Quote from: derspiess on August 28, 2014, 11:19:18 AM

Quote from: grumbler on August 27, 2014, 06:25:27 PM
I'd say that the number of Div-1A schools that don't charge for student tickets is probably less than those that do.  Michigan charges $295 for season tickets; OSU $252; Alabama only sells half-season tickets at $10 per game.  Texas charges $175 for an entire years' worth of tickets in all sports.

Ouch.  Seems a bit odd if you're already paying a student activity fee.  But I guess if the tickets are in demand that much you can do it.  At Marshall the students bitched about having to pay $5 for I-AA playoff tickets (which were subsidized by local businesses).  And at Delaware they couldn't pay students to attend.  About the only students who went to football games were freshman girls who had nothing else to do.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 28, 2014, 10:57:19 AM
That is one of the funniest things I've read.

Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
I don't know what schools charge student activity fees to support athletics, but I know Michigan and OSU don't. I'm pretty sure that Texas doesn't have any student support for athletics, either (and if they do, with what they make, they should be ashamed).

Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2014, 11:29:27 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 28, 2014, 10:57:19 AM
That is one of the funniest things I've read.

pete carool faked cutting a football player from the team after the final practice, and the kid left, ran to the top of the practice facility roof, and threw over a dummy dressed just like him, leaving the players to watch him supposedly plunge to his death in a suicide.  The dummy shattered when it hit the ground, thus ending the prank, but I think Carroll's idea was better.  His prank ended on a bang, and Freeze's with more of a whimper.  Freeze did do a better job of setting his prank up, though I thought he should have told his assistants.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 28, 2014, 11:45:10 AM
What I think made Hugh Freeze superior to the others is that he didn't let it stop with his team thinking someone died. He took it to the next level and tried to get them into a cover up of the incident.

Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2014, 01:05:18 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 28, 2014, 11:45:10 AM
What I think made Hugh Freeze superior to the others is that he didn't let it stop with his team thinking someone died. He took it to the next level and tried to get them into a cover up of the incident.

That's what made his prank's ending more lame and anticlimactic.  He basically turned "All In" into a joke.  Now his players have associated "All In" with a supposedly-hilarious mistruth, and I don't think that they will lose that association quickly.

Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
I'm pretty sure that Texas doesn't have any student support for athletics, either (and if they do, with what they make, they should be ashamed).

Quote from: alfred russel on August 28, 2014, 01:33:11 PM
I think that is the best part. He was basically poking fun at the football culture he is building by extending it to a murder cover up.

"All in", if taken literally, is an absurd slogan for football. He is leading a team of grown men who should have known this.

Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2014, 02:06:48 PM
Actually, I am pretty sure he is a college coach, not a coach of "grown men."  :hmm:

QuoteAny coach can, if he wants to, mock any element of his football culture that he wants to.  But a smart coach doesn't damage his team's morale through mocking its values, even if it amuses the coach potatoes.

Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Anyone following the Josh Shaw story out of USC?

Formerly starting CB managed to get high ankle sprains on both ankles outside of football. Out indefinitely.

Depending on who you believe, he injured himself either

A) Bravely jumping from a second floor balcony to the ground and then crawling into a pool to heroically rescue his drowning nephew, or
B) Jumping out of window while engaging in a burglary of a apartment building, or
C) Something else.

USC must be really missing Pete Carroll right now.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 28, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
Anthony Brown also just quit the team after accusing Sarkisian of treating him like a slave.

Quote from: Berkut on August 30, 2014, 03:58:14 PM
Well, it was just Nevada of course, but Arizona's freshman QB set some records in his first college start.

Throwing to an NFL caliber receiving corps (if they were aged of course) probably helps.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2014, 04:25:50 PM
College football in August just doesn't seem right for some reason.

Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2014, 03:54:43 PM
Seedy, I thought both of those teams played excellent games.  Neither had the talent to keep up over time, but both played hard and were prepared.  I think the Domers might be in for a shock when they play Navy.  They don't have the offensive weapons to come back with big plays like OSU did.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2014, 04:45:43 PM

Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2014, 03:54:43 PM
Seedy, I thought both of those teams played excellent games.  Neither had the talent to keep up over time, but both played hard and were prepared.  I think the Domers might be in for a shock when they play Navy.  They don't have the offensive weapons to come back with big plays like OSU did.

Navy's offfensive line is serious business.  They are going to truck some motherfuckers this year.

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 10:52:02 AM
West Virginia and Oklahoma State are playing some creampuffs...oh wait I mean they are the creampuffs.

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 05:36:13 PM

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 10:52:02 AM
West Virginia and Oklahoma State are playing some creampuffs...oh wait I mean they are the creampuffs.

Hey Spicey that creampuff has been tough for Bama to swallow so far.

Oh and how about those CycLOLs?

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 06:21:14 PM
The Big 12 starts off 0-2.  Le sigh.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 30, 2014, 08:22:56 PM
I think an official just accidentally blew his whistle in the middle of a play in the UT-UNT game.  Ash threw a little shovel pass to the TE, but while the ball was in the air, someone blew the play dead.  TE caught it and just sort of stood there with it+gave the DB a smack.  Everyone was in bounds.  Very strange.

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 07:32:52 PM
I know it is just North Texas but damn Charlie Strong's defense is suffocating.

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 08:37:19 PM
North Texas has three turnovers and 31 yards at the half  :cool: :punk:

Quote from: alfred russel on August 30, 2014, 08:52:02 PM

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 08:37:19 PM
North Texas has three turnovers and 31 yards at the half  :cool: :punk:

That being said, North Texas.  :P

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 10:51:23 PM
MBM: Espinosa out, a defensive player who moved to OLine a few weeks ago started at tackle.  It is going to be a rough season for the dudes up front on offense.

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 11:52:46 PM
Wow brutal choke job by Wisconsin.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 31, 2014, 12:07:23 AM
Man, Washington's O looks.....off.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 31, 2014, 06:41:36 PM
So who you got Valmy?  Raulerson or James?  James hasn't played C in a while, but has like 50 or 60lbs on Raulerson.

Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
So David Ash has concussion symptoms and is out versus North Texas.  So...yeah.  Hope he just retires now.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 01, 2014, 04:01:44 PM

Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
So David Ash has concussion symptoms and is out versus North Texas.  So...yeah.  Hope he just retires now.

Probably better to just get that out of the way now, and with (relatively, I guess) little damage, instead of worrying about the guy every time he takes a hit.  He probably should have retired last year.

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 04:10:33 PM
I agree that he needs to retire.  Was he anything of a real pro prospect?

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
I liked this composite picture (both of the players who have worn number 98 in Michigan football history, Devin Gardner and Tom Harmon); I like it when stuff like this happens, and am amazed that there are fans who can make these connections.

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 04:10:33 PM

Does Texas have the "three concussions and you are out" rule?  This would be his third, no?

I agree that he needs to retire.  Was he anything of a real pro prospect?

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 01, 2014, 05:12:23 PM

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
I liked this composite picture (both of the players who have worn number 98 in Michigan football history, Devin Gardner and Tom Harmon); I like it when stuff like this happens, and am amazed that there are fans who can make these connections.

Pretty neat.

Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2014, 06:06:28 PM
Strongly disagree that he should be forced (if that is what you are implying). Ron Jaworski had something like 30 concussions and is fine. There is something of a concussion panic right now that imo isn't warranted--NFL players, adjusted for demographics, appear to actually live longer than the average population. Most of those guys played before there were concussion rules and back in the day when trainers would give you smelling salts to get you alert and back in the game.

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 06:09:30 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 01, 2014, 05:12:23 PM

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
I liked this composite picture (both of the players who have worn number 98 in Michigan football history, Devin Gardner and Tom Harmon); I like it when stuff like this happens, and am amazed that there are fans who can make these connections.

Pretty neat.

So, how you feeling about the ND-UM game?  I can't imagine what is going through gamblers' minds that ND is a 5.5 point favorite.  I think Michigan wins this outright.  Golsen is a great QB, but everything he does well has to go against a Michigan strength. 

I actually think that ND would start just about anybody in Michigan's defensive backfield 3-deep.  ND will be able to run some, but they won't be able to pass.  Michigan won't be able to run except to keep ND honest, but they will pass at will against ND's secondary.  ND has nobody that can cover Funchess (height+speed+athleticism = #1JERSEYFORTHEFIRSTTIMEINTENYEARS), and Chesson wide and Funchess inside means ND can't double-team Funchess without going dime giving up the run game.

ND doesn't have the horses to handle Michigan this year.  Only a total breakdown of the Michigan O-line (which isn't inconceivable; look at last year) can save the Domers.

QB v Safeties:  Michigan, big
OL v DL: Domers, big
RB v LB: Michigan, big
Receivers v DB: Michigan, huge

That's the Tale of Two Cities.

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 01, 2014, 07:37:11 PM
Notre Dame is also eternally cursed and tainted.

By you know who.

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 07:52:23 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 01, 2014, 07:37:11 PM
Notre Dame is also eternally cursed and tainted.

By you know who.

You are talking about Brian Kelly?

FuckifIknow why anyone would play for him.  He's a douche who recruits and then loses 5-stars like no one outside Lane Kiffin (LOL kiffin to Alabama to undo everything Saban has done).

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 01, 2014, 07:55:17 PM

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 07:52:23 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 01, 2014, 07:37:11 PM
Notre Dame is also eternally cursed and tainted.

By you know who.

You are talking about Brian Kelly?

FuckifIknow why anyone would play for him.  He's a douche who recruits and then loses 5-stars like no one outside Lane Kiffin (LOL kiffin to Alabama to undo everything Saban has done).

Tim.

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 04:10:33 PM
Does Texas have the "three concussions and you are out" rule?  This would be his third, no?

I agree that he needs to retire.  Was he anything of a real pro prospect?

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 07:58:11 PM

FuckifIknow why anyone would play for him.  He's a douche who writes about recruits and then writes about losing 5-stars like no one outside Lane Kiffin (LOL kiffin to Alabama to undo everything Saban has done).

Quote from: derspiess on September 02, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
I'd put Brian Kelly at the top of the douchebag rankings.  As far as I know, none of those other guys were responsible for the death of a student.

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 05:36:13 PM

Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2014, 10:52:02 AM
West Virginia and Oklahoma State are playing some creampuffs...oh wait I mean they are the creampuffs.

Hey Spicey that creampuff has been tough for Bama to swallow so far.

Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2014, 10:06:58 AM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 31, 2014, 12:07:23 AM
Man, Washington's O looks.....off.

It is the magic of Chris Petersen. His presence gives the little guy a shot in every david vs. goliath matchup he coaches.

Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2014, 08:18:21 AM

2. Senior offensive lines are good to have. A couple years ago, when Arizona was struggling with an offensive line composed almost entirely of freshman and sophomores, people were saying "Man, these guys are rough...but in a couple years if they all stay healthy...". Well, it's a couple years, and they have most stayed healthy. You cannot over-estimate how important an experienced, quality O-Line is.

Quote from: alfred russel on September 03, 2014, 08:48:59 AM
Also, the Michigan AD came up through the pizza business and still has a lot of dominos stock. He doesn't just view Hoke as an employee, but also one of his best and most loyal customers.

Quote from: grumbler on September 03, 2014, 08:53:50 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on September 03, 2014, 08:48:59 AM
Also, the Michigan AD came up through the pizza business and still has a lot of dominos stock. He doesn't just view Hoke as an employee, but also one of his best and most loyal customers.

I am sure that that made sense in your mind when you thought of it, but it translates as gibberish in text.  Care to try again, in English this time?

Quote from: alfred russel on September 03, 2014, 09:08:44 AM

Quote from: grumbler on September 03, 2014, 08:53:50 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on September 03, 2014, 08:48:59 AM
Also, the Michigan AD came up through the pizza business and still has a lot of dominos stock. He doesn't just view Hoke as an employee, but also one of his best and most loyal customers.

I am sure that that made sense in your mind when you thought of it, but it translates as gibberish in text.  Care to try again, in English this time?

I think you are slipping regarding your personal attacks. You were doing better when you implied I was a couch potato.  :lol:

Quote from: alfred russel on September 03, 2014, 09:20:02 AM
:lol: I think plenty of people are capable of understanding the meaning of what I wrote. If you can't, maybe you should work at upping your reading comprehension skills.

Quote from: derspiess on September 03, 2014, 11:40:30 AM
Speaking of maters, my old neighbor keeps giving me tomatoes (I think he forgets he gave them to me before) and I have too many to know what to do with.  He gets such a kick out of giving them away, I'd feel bad turning them down. 

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 04, 2014, 07:16:15 PM
ND and Ohio State schedule a series in '22 and '23.

Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2014, 11:32:46 AM

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 04, 2014, 07:16:15 PM
ND and Ohio State schedule a series in '22 and '23.

Yeah, this sort of blows all their excuses about cancelling the Michigan series out the window.  They wouldn't even talk to Michigan about resuming the series because they "couldn't fit in a game against a Midwestern power team" and then they schedule exactly that, only not the traditional Midwestern power that has owned them five of the last six.

Quote from: alfred russel on September 05, 2014, 11:41:42 AM
Not really. College football these days is all about shiny flashy new things that catch the eye of recruits. Ohio State - ND will probably pull a higher rating than the 95th edition of Michigan - ND, and that buzz matters more than what the hardcore fans think.

Quote from: alfred russel on September 05, 2014, 11:41:42 AM
Not really. College football these days is all about shiny flashy new things that catch the eye of recruits.

Quote from: derspiess on September 05, 2014, 12:07:01 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on September 05, 2014, 11:41:42 AM
Not really. College football these days is all about shiny flashy new things that catch the eye of recruits.

Sad, but true.  And a big part of why I follow NFL a lot more than college football these days.

Quote from: sbr on September 05, 2014, 12:16:21 PM
Oregon's uniforms have very little to do with any fans.

Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2014, 12:13:50 PM
Meh.  The flashy stuff catches the eye of the lightweights, and I am willing to allow the lightweights to be astonished and entertained by the way Oregon changes its uniforms more frequently than its underwear.  For the most part, there are enough decent teams with the right priorities to support all the serious fans there are.

Quote from: derspiess on September 05, 2014, 03:12:51 PM

Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2014, 12:13:50 PM
Meh.  The flashy stuff catches the eye of the lightweights, and I am willing to allow the lightweights to be astonished and entertained by the way Oregon changes its uniforms more frequently than its underwear.  For the most part, there are enough decent teams with the right priorities to support all the serious fans there are.

I also don't like where the game seems to be headed.  I'll still watch, just less enthusiastically.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2014, 02:34:26 PM
Yes, and as the leaves turn to bear witness as a harbinger of another college football season, so does Dorsey4Sociopath talking out his ass and shitting up the college ball thread.

Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2014, 12:06:51 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on September 05, 2014, 11:41:42 AM
Not really. College football these days is all about shiny flashy new things that catch the eye of recruits. Ohio State - ND will probably pull a higher rating than the 95th edition of Michigan - ND, and that buzz matters more than what the hardcore fans think.

Not really.  The UM-ND game was the fourth-most-watched regular season game on TV last year.    When ND played OSU last time 'round (during a scheduled interregnum in the UM-ND series), the TV draw wasn't nearly as good.  Facts trump uninformed guesses.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2014, 06:46:01 PM
You know he clicked it.  :mad:


F'ing Desmond Howard.  What, no Earnest Byner fumble highlights available for that extra special torture?

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2014, 11:05:48 AM
Never been much of a Michigan State fan, but I hope they punch the Ducks right in the quackers.

Quote from: grumbler on September 06, 2014, 02:18:00 PM
I'll really be interested to see how Oregon works against that MSU defense. 

Quote from: katmai on September 06, 2014, 05:41:35 PM
No idea how to gauge this Washington team. Leading 59-52 vs #2 team in FCS E. Washington.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2014, 06:42:09 PM
Hey look, it's Michigan State's 1st half, in 26 seconds

http://youtu.be/vyRSV9eqTUY

Quote from: grumbler on September 06, 2014, 07:31:14 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2014, 06:42:09 PM
Hey look, it's Michigan State's 1st half, in 26 seconds

http://youtu.be/vyRSV9eqTUY

MSU 24, Oregon 18 at the half.  I'll take it.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 06, 2014, 09:01:43 PM
Well the offense is a complete dumpster fire and the D is getting tired.  SWEET

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 06, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
The D bailed the offense out for the entire first half.  They cannot be expected to just be out there kicking ass the whole damn time with quick "drives" or turnovers from the O on every series.  Eventually they were going to break and/or give up. 

The O has done nothing but turn the ball over for the entire game, and no, they aren't a bunch of freshmen. 

QuoteUm the offense put up about as many yards as BYU did in the first half and had more time of possession so I do not get the argument they got worn out.

Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2014, 09:23:08 PM
And yes ok not ALL the offense are freshman just the entire line and the QB. 

QuoteBesides even if what you say is true a defense needs to play well for more than a half and needs to get through more than three quarters without giving up nearly 400 yards.  We needed an elite performance by this defense to help this offense get its legs today and we didn't get it.  The special teams though did even worse.

Quote from: katmai on September 02, 2014, 11:57:28 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2014, 10:06:58 AM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 31, 2014, 12:07:23 AM
Man, Washington's O looks.....off.

It is the magic of Chris Petersen. His presence gives the little guy a shot in every david vs. goliath matchup he coaches.

Or more so they are replacing QB( and this is the backup as the starter is sitting out 1 game suspension), 1st string RB and TE

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 06, 2014, 09:28:56 PM
:lol:  Did you not see the first half?  All BYU was doing was pounding on them for most of the half.  They gave up one long drive (for 3), then kicked BYUs ass for a while, including giving up only 3 off of two turnovers that were in or right near Horns territory.  The O needed to score some fucking points and take some pressure off. 

Quote
Or, you know, just Raulerson

QuoteThey weren't going to win either way, Valmy, but actually having the offense shows up helps every once in a while.

Quotebut actually having the offense shows up helps every once in a while.

Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2014, 06:09:30 PM

So, how you feeling about the ND-UM game?  I can't imagine what is going through gamblers' minds that ND is a 5.5 point favorite.  I think Michigan wins this outright.  Golsen is a great QB, but everything he does well has to go against a Michigan strength. 

I actually think that ND would start just about anybody in Michigan's defensive backfield 3-deep.  ND will be able to run some, but they won't be able to pass.  Michigan won't be able to run except to keep ND honest, but they will pass at will against ND's secondary.  ND has nobody that can cover Funchess (height+speed+athleticism = #1JERSEYFORTHEFIRSTTIMEINTENYEARS), and Chesson wide and Funchess inside means ND can't double-team Funchess without going dime giving up the run game.

ND doesn't have the horses to handle Michigan this year.  Only a total breakdown of the Michigan O-line (which isn't inconceivable; look at last year) can save the Domers.

QB v Safeties:  Michigan, big
OL v DL: Domers, big
RB v LB: Michigan, big
Receivers v DB: Michigan, huge

That's the Tale of Two Cities.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 06, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
I like that they apparently have worked on Swoopes throwing motion.

E:  But the O responds to a TO by giving it back.  That's....I think four turnovers now. 

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 06, 2014, 09:42:52 PM
And that's it for me. Ohio state's O is miserable.

Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2014, 09:41:16 PMOf course I watched it.  The O did some nice things.  Those turnovers (by a junior and senior no less :bleeding:) were pretty bad.  BYU was moving the ball but the defense managed to keep it together.  The O got some first downs and had some time of possession though so there were a few good things to build on.  Or at least should have helped keep the defense fresh.

QuoteWell ok you got me.  They line and the QB were all making amongst their first starts.  Still that is pretty nitpicky.

QuoteHow did you know that?

QuoteOf course it would have helped.  I was only saying I did not see how the defense had been playing enough to justify the theory that they were just to exhausted by the beginning of the third quarter, they just got worked.  That is also a special teams loaded with starters that fumbled and put the offense deep in their own territory.  Seems like the whole team has serious work to do to me.

Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2014, 09:42:34 PM
That was a pretty bad throw but the only one on Swoopes.  One of the TOs was by the special teams.

Don't get me wrong here I am not saying the offense doesn't suck, I expected that.  But a total melt down by every phase of the game is something else.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 06, 2014, 09:55:35 PM
Well Swoopes did some good things.  But he needed to be 05 Vince Young to get anything with the way the rest of the O was generally playing.

QuoteThat's not nitpicky.  You can't say they're just a bunch of freshmen to explain their screwups if they're not freshmen.  They're inexperienced, but they didn't just step onto the 40 straight out of HS.  Hell even Raulerson has had a redshirt year.

QuoteWith that OL against a team like BYU?  No fuckin way.  I didn't think they'd embarrass themselves though.

QuoteI didn't say they were exhausted, I said they were getting tired and the O is no good.  They gave up the initial drive, and they were right back out there when the O pissed the possession away.  That's the kind of shit that made Muschamp look like he wanted to murder Mack every week.

Quote from: alfred russel on September 06, 2014, 10:00:59 PM
Today is Texas' Hiroshima.

Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2014, 10:03:18 PM
the 2012 OU game

Quote from: alfred russel on September 06, 2014, 10:00:59 PM
Today is the Big 10's Waterloo.

Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2014, 10:23:25 PM
Edit: whoops just jinxed them.

Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2014, 10:23:25 PM

Quote from: alfred russel on September 06, 2014, 10:00:59 PM
Today is the Big 10's Waterloo.

Ohio State is now tied with Virginia Tech at 21.

Quote from: sbr on September 06, 2014, 10:27:27 PM
Not anymore

Quote from: alfred russel on September 06, 2014, 10:30:47 PM

Quote from: sbr on September 06, 2014, 10:27:27 PM
Not anymore

The guard's advance is faltering!

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 07, 2014, 12:12:09 AM
How can you not root for a QB named Kirkegaard?  :lol:

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2014, 11:48:01 PM
Glad to see Maryland did their part for the Big 10.  Lulz.

Quote from: Valmy on September 07, 2014, 07:50:11 PM
Michigan and Texas desperately need to play this year.  It would be a glorious pillow fight.

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 07, 2014, 07:54:44 PM

Quote from: Valmy on September 07, 2014, 07:50:11 PM
Michigan and Texas desperately need to play this year.  It would be a glorious pillow fight.

You just want to see Hoke in a teddy.

Quote from: sbr on September 13, 2014, 01:33:36 AM
I'm pretty sure I heard that if the ducks win tomorrow they will be the first FBS program to win 50 games this decade.

Quote from: katmai on September 13, 2014, 06:52:51 PM
Well I want to say Huskies looked better today, but it was against Big Ten team....

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2014, 09:35:45 PM
Geez Iowa

Quote from: sbr on September 13, 2014, 10:37:17 PM
Did Hundley ever come back into the game?

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2014, 10:17:44 PM
Edit 3: And they collapse.  Well it was a nice 10 seconds it looked like Texas would win there  :lol:

Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2014, 10:47:26 PM
Getting stomped by those fucks from BYU two years in a row is like a billion times worse than getting stomped on the road at Oregon  :P

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 14, 2014, 01:45:25 AM
UTSA and UT both lost.

Quote from: derspiess on September 16, 2014, 10:40:07 AM
I'm seeing Oklahoma favored by only 7 over WVU.  I know WVU has their offense chugging and they'll be at home, but I just don't see it being that close.  I'd put money on Okietards and be happy if I lost.

Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2014, 11:09:13 AM
I've seen some commentary that suggests the opposite:  that WVU matches up very well to OU's strengths, and that most of those seven points are a gift to the cognoscenti from those who just bet based on reputation.

QuoteWith starting quarterback David Ash out indefinitely and an untested Tyrone Swoopes under center — backed up by true freshman Jerrod Heard — the Longhorns have brought on intramural quarterback Jimmy Greenwood, reportedly a sophomore in the fraternity SAE.

Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2014, 08:23:28 PM
I mean, there is no way Texas just had three total QBs on the whole team, walkons included, right?  No former high school QBs playing wide receiver or linebacker or DB?  It has to be a joke that Texas has to draft in the QB of a fraternity football team just to get the minimum QB depth to run a team...  right? :unsure:

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2014, 08:41:49 PM

Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2014, 08:23:28 PM
I mean, there is no way Texas just had three total QBs on the whole team, walkons included, right?  No former high school QBs playing wide receiver or linebacker or DB?  It has to be a joke that Texas has to draft in the QB of a fraternity football team just to get the minimum QB depth to run a team...  right? :unsure:

Right.

http://texassports.com/roster.aspx?path=football

Ash is gone, Onyegbule tore his ACL.  They Have Swoopes, Heard, Holtz, and Vinklarek.  Heard is redshirted this year.  Vinklarek and Holtz are walk ons.

Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2014, 08:23:28 PM
This a a joke, right? http://www.lostlettermen.com/article/texas-football-longhorns-add-intramural-qb-jimmy-greenwood (http://www.lostlettermen.com/article/texas-football-longhorns-add-intramural-qb-jimmy-greenwood)

QuoteWith starting quarterback David Ash out indefinitely and an untested Tyrone Swoopes under center — backed up by true freshman Jerrod Heard — the Longhorns have brought on intramural quarterback Jimmy Greenwood, reportedly a sophomore in the fraternity SAE.

I mean, there is no way Texas just had three total QBs on the whole team, walkons included, right?  No former high school QBs playing wide receiver or linebacker or DB?  It has to be a joke that Texas has to draft in the QB of a fraternity football team just to get the minimum QB depth to run a team...  right? :unsure:

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2014, 09:48:53 PM
Thank his lawyer.  That was a felony.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 18, 2014, 06:48:58 PM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2014, 09:48:53 PM
Thank his lawyer.  That was a felony.

But see, that's OK by Berkut, because he's not a Raven.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2014, 09:48:53 PM
Thank his lawyer.  That was a felony.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 18, 2014, 06:48:58 PM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 17, 2014, 09:48:53 PM
Thank his lawyer.  That was a felony.

But see, that's OK by Berkut, because he's not a Raven.

Quote from: Berkut on September 18, 2014, 10:39:03 PM
It's ok with Berkut because he is some kid who got in a fight. So what?

QuoteI love how you compare that to someone murdering someone and covering it up. Yeah, the only difference between him and your hero is that he isn't a Raven - that is the key detail.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 19, 2014, 08:33:13 AM
Berk, he attacked a guy and broke his face for talking to his ex-girlfriend who he didn't want talking to anyone.

Quote
He was a fucking nutcase and Mack was a douche for reinstating him.

Quote from: Berkut on September 19, 2014, 10:24:25 AM
Yeah, no question he has to move on after something like that.

I don't know if the reduced charges are typical or not.

QuoteThe entire thing where athletes get in trouble, and then go somewhere else is always kind of weird - if you do something bad enough that you cannot play for the school you were at when you did it, then how is it ok to go play somewhere else?

On the other hand, it isn't really reasonable to just say that once you do something bad, you are done forever.

In any case, he is doing incredibly well so far this year, which is pretty impressive considering how much competition there is at Arizona at his position.

Quote from: Berkut on September 19, 2014, 09:29:34 AMI would hate to see Arizona become the refuge for dirtballs, no matter how good they are..

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 19, 2014, 11:54:48 AM

Quote from: Berkut on September 19, 2014, 09:29:34 AMI would hate to see Arizona become the refuge for dirtballs, no matter how good they are..

Looks like it's getting a head start. Ray Lewis will pray for them.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 19, 2014, 02:09:32 PM
Still doesnt change the fact Arizona's in the thug transfer market.

Quote
Berkut's smug sense of moral superiority: diminished.

Quote from: derspiess on September 19, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
I enjoy this.  Please do continue.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on September 19, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
He was charged with felony aggravated assault due to the injuries he caused. They later decided the injuries weren't sufficient for a felony, which is interesting since he broke his jaw, and reduced it to misdemeanor assault.  He had/has to meet some sort of requirements, I don't remember specifically what they were, or they'd toss him in jail for a year.  Affidavit said it was unprovoked, and he had previously threatened the guy he attacked specifically because of this girl. 

From when it happened:
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/12/texas-wr-cayleb-jones-charged-with-felony-assault/
http://www.burntorangenation.com/2013/3/12/4095736/texas-longhorns-wr-cayleb-jones-aggravated-assault-tennis-player

It's good that he has apparently gotten his shit together and is doing well, but there was no way he should have still been at Texas after that.  You just can't have football players going crazy and putting other scholarship athletes in the hospital because their ex girlfriend is hanging around with them.

E:  It was a pretty big deal down this way in Longhorn-land, since he was a bigtime recruit and how it all happened.  Can't believe he took out a damn tennis player over a damn volleyball player.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 20, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
Georgia crushes the Trojans! Well, the real ones from Troy, not the ones from Southern California...

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 20, 2014, 05:03:08 PM
Michigan looking really sloppy right now...

Quote from: katmai on September 20, 2014, 07:52:41 PM
So after taking first half off, UDub is now up 28-14 on Georgia St.

Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2014, 07:34:17 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 20, 2014, 05:03:08 PM
Michigan looking really sloppy right now...

Really shitty playcalling, and some mental breakdowns by players.  With this game, Hoke has lost me.  If he can't beat Utah, there isn't a game left on the schedule that isn't a tossup at best.  Time for a change.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2014, 08:40:38 PM
I've moved on from the Wendy's redhead to the Verizon Wireless brunette.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2014, 08:44:54 PM
Wendy's chick has awful taste in men.

Still.

QuoteBrady Patrick Hoke (born November 3, 1958) is the former head football coach for the Michigan Wolverines football team

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2014, 09:10:50 PM
They're catering to their male demographic.

Quote from: Savonarola on September 20, 2014, 09:13:08 PM
MSU 73, EMU 14; or as they say in Ypsilanti: "A close game."

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2014, 09:08:58 PM
No, too squishy faced and Jewwy.

edit:  it's the AT&T girl I'm thinking about.  Not as Jewwy.

QuoteOhio State coach Urban Meyer told HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" he was depressed while coaching at Florida in 2009, lost 37 pounds and was "mentally broke."

Meyer was suffering from chest pains and self-medicating for his stress.

"Now I'm taking two Ambiens," Meyer told the HBO show. "I would drink a beer on top of it, just to get some sleep. Not many people know that.

"And I go from 217 pounds to 180 pounds. I lose 37 pounds."

That all occurred when the Gators were undefeated in 2009 -- until losing to Alabama in the SEC title game.

After the loss to the Crimson Tide, Meyer was admitted into a hospital with chest pains.

"They said, 'We don't believe it was a heart attack.' " Meyer said. "So, OK, 'Well, what is it?' 'We don't know.'

"And then you start thinking, 'There's something wrong with me mentally, you know? What is going on here?' "

Meyer said he was depressed.

"I thought I was dying," Meyer said. "Mentally, I was broke."

Meyer said after Florida won the national title after the 2008 season he didn't -- and couldn't -- enjoy the victory. He began recruiting literally minutes after the 24-14 win over Oklahoma in the BCS title game in Miami ended.

"I was in a panic situation," Meyer said. "We just won it. We got to do it again. I close the door. And I started just recruiting. One of my friends came and said, 'What are you doing?' He said, 'Enjoy, what's wrong with you, man? Enjoy this.' I tried."

In 2009, Meyer resigned as Florida's coach before the Sugar Bowl, but then changed his mind and stayed. He left Florida for good after the 2010 season. He worked as an ESPN analyst in 2011 before becoming Ohio State's head coach in 2012.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2014, 10:08:44 AM
Line up of suspects:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-1UT5CgI_700%2FUFNVuUR8iRI%2FAAAAAAAAABY%2FhrGJEDXqddQ%2Fs1600%2Fdazzlers_2011.jpg&hash=61ded04fa4c055c9933cb5233a38ac4e8ccc1750)

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2014, 10:08:44 AM
Line up of suspects:

Quote from: alfred russel on September 23, 2014, 12:49:46 PM
Charlie Strong apparently kicked another guy off the team. I'm convinced this is part of his master plan to get rid of all the defensive players and take the field himself. Sternly looking at the opponent with his arms crossed, he will terrify the opponent into submission. He won't even have to move.

Quote
10 Promotional Slogans for the Michigan Football Ticket Sales Office

Watching them in-person is cheaper than breaking your TV.

- – – – -

Reserve your seat for the Jim Harbaugh Era.
- – – – -

Because where else can you see a guy with a
lineman's number try to play quarterback.
- – – – -

The Big House: The State of Michigan's largest depression support group.
- – – – -

A chance to maybe see Kate Upton in person
instead of leering at her online, you pervert.
- – – – -

You wanted RichRod gone. Deal with the consequences.
- – – – -

It really helps you appreciate all that we once were.
- – – – -

We wouldn't have put in all of these seats if we
thought you'd stop coming in. Do us a solid here.
- – – – -

Please. All the Coke you can drink. Please just come, guys.
- – – -

Because Michigan State games are sold out.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 23, 2014, 06:12:09 PM
Number 9 burgers are the best thing about Ann Arbor.

Quote from: Berkut on September 21, 2014, 09:35:15 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F09%2Fanu-solomon-to-austin-hill-on-a-hail-mary-to-beat-cal.gif%3Fw%3D1000&hash=74fb433ca5b6fcab7c9430c1717717061584ed99)

Quote from: alfred russel on September 23, 2014, 12:49:46 PM
Charlie Strong apparently kicked another guy off the team. I'm convinced this is part of his master plan to get rid of all the defensive players and take the field himself. Sternly looking at the opponent with his arms crossed, he will terrify the opponent into submission. He won't even have to move.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2014, 08:27:39 PM

Quote from: Berkut on September 21, 2014, 09:35:15 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F09%2Fanu-solomon-to-austin-hill-on-a-hail-mary-to-beat-cal.gif%3Fw%3D1000&hash=74fb433ca5b6fcab7c9430c1717717061584ed99)

This is phenomenally bad Hail Mary defense.

Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2014, 05:25:06 PM
This pillow fight between Texas and Kansas is riveting.

Meanwhile what is going on in Raleigh?  plj any thoughts?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2014, 05:33:34 PM
Gophers beating down Wolverines at Michigan.  Total domination.

Caught a highlight that the Bearcats are up 7-0 on The Ohio State.

Big Ten: 3rd rate conference?

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 27, 2014, 06:03:47 PM
Huh. 23-7 Ohio State now. Why don't you faggits wait a bit and stop acting like Tim.

Fags.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 27, 2014, 07:05:37 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 27, 2014, 06:03:47 PM
Huh. 23-7 Ohio State now. Why don't you faggits wait a bit and stop acting like Tim.

Fags.

Sphincter says wrong score?

Quote from: alfred russel on September 28, 2014, 12:35:05 AM
Michigan managed 171 yards of offense.

I think it is important for the 49ers to win lots of games this year to prevent Harbaugh from going to Michigan. Also, it is important for Michigan to really suck this year, because this seems to be the best opportunity in a generation to laugh at Michigan football.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 27, 2014, 05:44:02 PM
Who knew Maryland would be the juggernaut to save the Big 10?

Ed, grumbler:  your conference sucks donkey assballs.

Quote from: Savonarola on September 28, 2014, 06:07:27 AM

Quote from: alfred russel on September 28, 2014, 12:35:05 AM
Michigan managed 171 yards of offense.

I think it is important for the 49ers to win lots of games this year to prevent Harbaugh from going to Michigan. Also, it is important for Michigan to really suck this year, because this seems to be the best opportunity in a generation to laugh at Michigan football.

Well, the best opportunity since 2008.  This team might not be good, but I think they could beat Toledo.

Quote from: grumbler on September 28, 2014, 10:27:22 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 27, 2014, 05:44:02 PM
Who knew Maryland would be the juggernaut to save the Big 10?

Ed, grumbler:  your conference sucks donkey assballs.

I said that two weeks ago!  :lol:

Quote from: alfred russel on September 28, 2014, 12:35:05 AM
I think it is important for the 49ers to win lots of games this year to prevent Harbaugh from going to Michigan.

QuoteMichigan interested in Baltimore Ravens coach John Harbaugh

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000401567/article/michigan-interested-in-john-harbaugh

the Wolverines would prefer John over brother Jim Harbaugh, the San Francisco 49ers coach who once quarterbacked the Wolverines, because he is viewed as more of a long-term option.

Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2014, 07:01:42 PM
Both brothers told Texas to shove off, I wonder if it will be different for Big Blue.

Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2014, 07:01:42 PM
Both brothers told Texas to shove off, I wonder if it will be different for Big Blue.

Quote from: Berkut on September 28, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Why would Harbaugh want to leave the Niners? What did I miss?

Quote from: Berkut on September 28, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Why would Harbaugh want to leave the Niners? What did I miss?

Quote from: alfred russel on September 29, 2014, 05:36:28 PM
Basically a pick em in Tennessee - Florida. For years people have been waiting for this rivalry to get back to the competitiveness it had in the late 90s early 2000s. I'm not sure this is the way people wanted it to happen. Go Vols!

Quote from: alfred russel on September 29, 2014, 05:36:28 PM
Was just looking at the lines for the upcoming week. A couple suprised me:

Arizona a 23 pt dog to Oregon. This is a game I'm interested in watching--I expect Oregon to win, but I wouldn't be shocked if Arizona pushes them hard.

Basically a pick em in Tennessee - Florida. For years people have been waiting for this rivalry to get back to the competitiveness it had in the late 90s early 2000s. I'm not sure this is the way people wanted it to happen. Go Vols!

Quote from: sbr on September 30, 2014, 06:23:57 PM
Looks like I am going to the Ducks/Arizona game on Thursday.

Quote from: Berkut on October 03, 2014, 09:08:28 AM
Yeah, I was kind of wondering that myself - Arizona didn't get votes because it was thought that their perfect record was something of a fluke.

Beating Oregon at Autzen is not a fluke.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 03, 2014, 09:53:44 AM
Beating Oregon was probably a fluke, but we won't know until they get into the meat of their schedule.

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 01:43:36 PM
Ok now Arizona just has to finish 7-0

Quote from: Berkut on October 03, 2014, 01:45:26 PM
Yeah, I know.

But there are 4 spots and 5 power conferences. I don't think the Pac-12 is going to end up without one of those spots one way or another.

We really need an 8 team playoff. Each power conference gets a bid, and then three at large.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 03, 2014, 01:57:40 PM

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 01:43:36 PM
Ok now Arizona just has to finish 7-0

And then call off the rest of the season.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 03, 2014, 02:03:02 PM

Quote from: Berkut on October 03, 2014, 01:45:26 PM
Yeah, I know.

But there are 4 spots and 5 power conferences. I don't think the Pac-12 is going to end up without one of those spots one way or another.

We really need an 8 team playoff. Each power conference gets a bid, and then three at large.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the (financially)weaker of the power conferences dissolves and it resolves itself naturally. We fixed the glitch.

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 02:03:48 PM
No I meant go 7-0 in their next seven games.  But I just remembered the PAC 12 has a championship game so make that 8-0.

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 02:04:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 03, 2014, 02:03:02 PM

Quote from: Berkut on October 03, 2014, 01:45:26 PM
Yeah, I know.

But there are 4 spots and 5 power conferences. I don't think the Pac-12 is going to end up without one of those spots one way or another.

We really need an 8 team playoff. Each power conference gets a bid, and then three at large.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the (financially)weaker of the power conferences dissolves and it resolves itself naturally. We fixed the glitch.

Impossible.  The conference are all too big as it is.  Where would all those schools go?

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 03, 2014, 02:21:50 PM

Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2014, 02:04:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 03, 2014, 02:03:02 PM

Quote from: Berkut on October 03, 2014, 01:45:26 PM
Yeah, I know.

But there are 4 spots and 5 power conferences. I don't think the Pac-12 is going to end up without one of those spots one way or another.

We really need an 8 team playoff. Each power conference gets a bid, and then three at large.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the (financially)weaker of the power conferences dissolves and it resolves itself naturally. We fixed the glitch.

Impossible.  The conference are all too big as it is.  Where would all those schools go?

I don't know, but there is a bit of a size mismatch even in the five conferences. Bringing them all up to 14 each in four conferences would only leave like two or three teams out in the cold.

Quote from: Berkut on October 03, 2014, 02:26:30 PM
...which is politically impossible to do. What conference commissioner would ever agree to such a thing?

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 04, 2014, 02:30:51 PM
Nice one from the Other Bulldogs.

Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2014, 02:26:37 PM
Maryland got a proper introduction to the Big 10. Snap snap fags.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 06:34:12 PM
Maybe now people will take Notre Dame seriously.  :mad:

Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2014, 06:34:12 PM
Maybe now people will take Notre Dame seriously.  :mad: