NCAA Football, 2014-2015

[sbr]

I bet the committee feels pretty stupid moving FSU ahead of TCU in the last rankings.

It was clear FSU was not a top 4 team this year, made it based on last year which is unfortunate.

They did go undefeated this year. 

It seems fairly clear they should have made it. They are an undefeated power 5 conference champ that played an OOC schedule including Oklahoma State and Florida (admittedly not world beaters).

Ohio State played a weak schedule and lost a game. Why would you leave out FSU and put them in?

The committee had TCU ahead of FSU in the second to last week.  Both teams won and they moved FSU ahead of TCU.  TCU and FSU's opponent slapped the living shit out of their opponents in the Bowl games.  I would understand if the committee regretted their decision.

No idea why you are talking about Ohio State, but I usually dont know what you are talking about.

[sbr]

Who threw the banana peel on the field?

[alfred russel]

The committee had TCU ahead of FSU in the second to last week.  Both teams won and they moved FSU ahead of TCU.  TCU and FSU's opponent slapped the living shit out of their opponents in the Bowl games.  I would understand if the committee regretted their decision.

No idea why you are talking about Ohio State, but I usually dont know what you are talking about.

I know the history of the rankings.

You said that FSU was not a top 4 team. I assume the implication of this is that you think they should not have been in the playoff. That would seem to imply a field of Alabama/Oregon/TCU/Ohio State. So I was logically arguing that FSU deserved to be in over Ohio State. I'd struggle to see a justification to leave them out.

As you pointed out in your above post, I've been skeptical that FSU is good for a long time. I'm not suprised to see them get curb stomped. However, they were undefeated this year.

[sbr]

The committee had TCU ahead of FSU in the second to last week.  Both teams won and they moved FSU ahead of TCU.  TCU and FSU's opponent slapped the living shit out of their opponents in the Bowl games.  I would understand if the committee regretted their decision.

No idea why you are talking about Ohio State, but I usually dont know what you are talking about.

I know the history of the rankings.

You said that FSU was not a top 4 team. I assume the implication of this is that you think they should not have been in the playoff. That would seem to imply a field of Alabama/Oregon/TCU/Ohio State. So I was logically arguing that FSU deserved to be in over Ohio State. I'd struggle to see a justification to leave them out.

As you pointed out in your above post, I've been skeptical that FSU is good for a long time. I'm not suprised to see them get curb stomped. However, they were undefeated this year.

The intended theme of the post was: FSU: Didn't belong in the playoff

I was hoping the reader would get there by putting together the implications of:
Sentence 1 : The commitee shouldn't have flip-flopped TCU and FSU
Sentence 2: FSU didn't play like a top 4 team all year, even if they won all of their games.

[Berkut]

You can tell the character of a man based on his opinion of cheap shots on a kicker.

Kickers lose kicker protection when they chase the ball carrier.

Agreed.

Well, sort of. It depends on what protection you are talking about.

They lose the "You cannot hit the kicker" protection, but they are still a defenseless player throughout the play.

That doesn't mean they can no longer be hit, but it does mean that if you target them the penalty will be 15 yards plus ejection, as opposed to just 15 yards.

And this was definitely targetting.

Also, even if this wasn't the kicker, it was someone receiving a blind-side block. That is a defenseless player as well. So he is doubly a defenseless player.

But remember, a defenseless player can still be legally hit.

The blocker leads with his forearm into the shoulders and head to the person he is blocking. It is a total cheap shot with intent to injure, and these kinds of blocks are supposed to be out of the game, for obvious reasons.

[Berkut]

Don't be a douchebag.  He launched into someone who wasn't looking.  A kicker, no less.  Talk about a punk move.  Not even Lavar Arrington did that to opposing punters.  Why not start launching into puppies.

Whatever. Kickers make tackles all the time. I just saw "Baylor kicker" as the #2 trending topic on twitter and some guy for fox wrote an article saying it was the hit of the year, and maybe 2 years (2014 and 2015).

Read the rules. Kicker are allowed to make tackles, and of course they are allowed to be blocked and hit once they are no longer receiving protection as a kicker.

They are, however, "defenseless" players for the entirety of the play, just like a QB after an interception. They can still be legally hit. Defenseless doesn't mean they cannot be blocked.

I don't know what has happened to a lot of you people (cdm, sbr, berkut). Boxing was popular in this country when guys actually got knocked out. Mike Tyson fights against hopeless opponents were major events. Now I've seen several fights stopped before a guy even gets knocked down. People used to set out to knock people out of the game in football. A QB or kicker having to eat out of a straw is unlikley to beat you in the fourth quarter. We should pretend Ronnie Lott never existed I guess.

Nothing has happened to me - lots of things has happened to sports, especially football, when the medical community realized just how dangerous concussions are, and how incredibly damaging they are long term.

Ronnie Lott would still be an outstanding safety today. He just wouldn't be allowed to go out and try to hurt people anymore.

[alfred russel]

The intended theme of the post was: FSU: Didn't belong in the playoff

I was hoping the reader would get there by putting together the implications of:
Sentence 1 : The commitee shouldn't have flip-flopped TCU and FSU
Sentence 2: FSU didn't play like a top 4 team all year, even if they won all of their games.

Well fuck, that is why I went to discussing Ohio State.

FSU had the 33rd strength of schedule and won all their games.

Ohio State had the 55th strength of schedule and lost one.

I don't see much of a case to leave FSU out of the playoff, based on the criteria the committee was given.

[sbr]

You can tell the character of a man based on his opinion of cheap shots on a kicker.

Kickers lose kicker protection when they chase the ball carrier.

Agreed.

Well, sort of. It depends on what protection you are talking about.

They lose the "You cannot hit the kicker" protection, but they are still a defenseless player throughout the play.

That doesn't mean they can no longer be hit, but it does mean that if you target them the penalty will be 15 yards plus ejection, as opposed to just 15 yards.

And this was definitely targetting.

Also, even if this wasn't the kicker, it was someone receiving a blind-side block. That is a defenseless player as well. So he is doubly a defenseless player.

But remember, a defenseless player can still be legally hit.

The blocker leads with his forearm into the shoulders and head to the person he is blocking. It is a total cheap shot with intent to injure, and these kinds of blocks are supposed to be out of the game, for obvious reasons.

I was agreeing with the general sentiment of Yi's post not the technicalities of the rules.

That said I just saw the hit on the kicker just a few minutes ago.  A forearm shiver to the head of any player should be a penalty these days, regardless of who is hitting who and the situation.

More generally to the idea of smearing the kicker across the field:

1. Not all legal hits are clean and not all illegal hits are cheap.
2. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[alfred russel]

Nothing has happened to me - lots of things has happened to sports, especially football, when the medical community realized just how dangerous concussions are, and how incredibly damaging they are long term.

Ronnie Lott would still be an outstanding safety today. He just wouldn't be allowed to go out and try to hurt people anymore.

If guys don't want to accept the risks, they don't have to play, and I'm not convinced the medical evidence is as conclusive as it is made out.

Anyway, the rules changes aren't just about concussions. There have been a bunch of other rules changes for safety not related to concussions (horse collar tackles, or fining $70k for stepping on a leg, for instance).

[sbr]

The intended theme of the post was: FSU: Didn't belong in the playoff

I was hoping the reader would get there by putting together the implications of:
Sentence 1 : The commitee shouldn't have flip-flopped TCU and FSU
Sentence 2: FSU didn't play like a top 4 team all year, even if they won all of their games.

Well fuck, that is why I went to discussing Ohio State.

FSU had the 33rd strength of schedule and won all their games.

Ohio State had the 55th strength of schedule and lost one.

I don't see much of a case to leave FSU out of the playoff, based on the criteria the committee was given.

Ohio State was much more impressive in their last 4 regular season games than FSU was.  I don't remember all of the committee's criteria off the top of my head, but "Who is playing the best right now" could have been used to justify either TCU or OSU over FSU.  No loss teams will always get priority though, even if they are obviously inferior and have not played anyone worthwhile.

[Eddie Teach]

Well fuck, that is why I went to discussing Ohio State.

FSU had the 33rd strength of schedule and won all their games.

Ohio State had the 55th strength of schedule and lost one.

I don't see much of a case to leave FSU out of the playoff, based on the criteria the committee was given.

I agree FSU should have been in the playoff. However, there is an argument that Ohio St is the better team(even before today) when you look at the scores of those games. Florida St. only won by over 20 points twice(and the one against the Citadel was much closer than it should have been). Ohio St. beat Kent St by 66, Wisconsin by 59, Illinois by 41 and Rutgers by 39.

[Eddie Teach]

No loss teams will always get priority though, even if they are obviously inferior and have not played anyone worthwhile.

They played plenty of worthwhile teams and beat them by a field goal or so.

[Admiral Yi]

OSU O-line looks seriously outmatched.  I think this one is going to get ugly.

[Berkut]

Nothing has happened to me - lots of things has happened to sports, especially football, when the medical community realized just how dangerous concussions are, and how incredibly damaging they are long term.

Ronnie Lott would still be an outstanding safety today. He just wouldn't be allowed to go out and try to hurt people anymore.

If guys don't want to accept the risks, they don't have to play, and I'm not convinced the medical evidence is as conclusive as it is made out.

What are you talking about?

This has nothing to do with what risks players are willing to accept - the players will accept nearly any risk to play.

This is about making the game as safe as possible while maintaining the spirit of the game.

Many people believe that unless you are allowed to send 18 and 19 year old kids to the hospital with brain damage, then the spirit of the game is lost.

Most people don't agree, and lucky enough, the people who are in charge of the sport don't agree, and maybe more imporantly they legal environment we live in doesn't accept that the willful infliction of brain damage is necessary to the enjoyment of football.

Anyway, the rules changes aren't just about concussions. There have been a bunch of other rules changes for safety not related to concussions (horse collar tackles, or fining $70k for stepping on a leg, for instance).

Nobody said every rule change ever made was only about concussions.

[alfred russel]

Ohio State was much more impressive in their last 4 regular season games than FSU was.  I don't remember all of the committee's criteria off the top of my head, but "Who is playing the best right now" could have been used to justify either TCU or OSU over FSU.  No loss teams will always get priority though, even if they are obviously inferior and have not played anyone worthwhile.

I think they were something like:
-record
-strength of schedule
-conference champion
-head to head

There isn't an "or", to leave out FSU it would have to be both OSU and TCU.

And yeah, I think there is a big problem with leaving out an undefeated team that played a tougher schedule than a 1 loss team based on how they looked at the end of the year. Also, Ohio State didn't play well at the end of the season before the Wisconsin game. They also have their #3 QB making his second career start tonight. Maybe it will change but so far the results don't look good at all.