Is Slargos sick?
How do you mean no thread?
I'm posting in one right now.
Quote from: Tamas on August 07, 2011, 08:11:34 AM
Is Slargos sick?
Is that a rhetorical question? :huh:
What does Slargos have to do with rioting in England?
niggers rioters are niggers :smoke:
That is not what they are called here in England, Slargos :mad:
They are known as "the community" instead.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 07, 2011, 10:01:24 AM
That is not what they are called here in England, Slargos :mad:
They are known as "the community" instead.
My mistake. :sleep:
I'm sure they had perfectly valid reasons for rioting and looting.
What's all this then?
Apparently there's rioting in Tottenham. The young people of the community have had their feelings hurt and are now taking out their frustration on society.
AFAIK, a "father of four" (like there is a get out of prison free card after certain number of children) got tyranically shot by police, when the policemen returned fire at him. Then the righteous members of his community took up to themselves to express the grave injustice which befallen this poor man, and set a neighborhood on fire and looted a supermarket.
Where's the link?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14435251
Summary:
Mark Duggan was a 29 year-old man from the Tottenham area of London:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisislocallondon.co.uk%2Fresources%2Fimages%2F1733943%2F%3Ftype%3Ddisplay&hash=bb77173679f6ad789d510aa899209eda10628164)
He was stopped by the police in a mini-cab, after which shots were fired at a policeman. Duggan was subsequently shot dead - likely by the police, though our ordinary constables do not carry guns (it is left to a specialist branch of the police force).
The grieving family joined a large group of people in a protest outside of a police station in Tottenham which was demanding to hear from the police. However, no one from inside came to speak to them. *Apparently* a woman was pushed by a police officer outside the police station, and this seems to constitute a legitimate reason for the not-so-good people of Tottenham to go and trash the place.
I thought riots in Britain were a daily occurrence. Just something they do.
It's spread to my home town of Enfield now. There are thousands of youths arriving with hoods and masks carrying bricks. So far they've looted a jewellers, HMV and T-Mobile and there's reports they've burned down Nandos. This is no social protest, these are imported thugs on the rob.
Well, Jos is going to be sad that they missed it.
Quote from: Brazen on August 07, 2011, 03:33:26 PM
It's spread to my home town of Enfield now. There are thousands of youths arriving with hoods and masks carrying bricks. So far they've looted a jewellers, HMV and T-Mobile and there's reports they've burned down Nandos. This is no social protest, these are imported thugs on the rob.
Yeah, but what can the authorities do? If they clamp down on rioting, they're a pack of racist tyrants.
I'm rather worried for my car and flat as they're all coming down the footpath through our car park between Enfield Town where the riot cops on their way to the A10 where they're attacking Cineworld and Krispy Kreme. Classy.
It's an important gain for darkie power.
Quote from: Brazen on August 07, 2011, 03:33:26 PM
It's spread to my home town of Enfield now. There are thousands of youths arriving with hoods and masks carrying bricks. So far they've looted a jewellers, HMV and T-Mobile and there's reports they've burned down Nandos. This is no social protest, these are imported thugs on the rob.
:wacko:
Sorry to hear that you are in the firing line Brazen. Isn't Enfield a rather unusual place for lowlife scum to start looting? What's going on?
Quote from: Brazen on August 07, 2011, 03:52:46 PM
I'm rather worried for my car and flat as they're all coming down the footpath through our car park between Enfield Town where the riot cops on their way to the A10 where they're attacking Cineworld and Krispy Kreme. Classy.
Oh dear, stay safe - keep indoors, if you car gets damaged don't try and intervene.
Yeah, it's kinda stupid as in no way is Enfield some inner city ghetto.
Legitimate 'community' policing issues vs opportunist bored teenagers/petty criminals/rent-a-mob. :hmm:
Quote from: mongers on August 07, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 07, 2011, 03:52:46 PM
I'm rather worried for my car and flat as they're all coming down the footpath through our car park between Enfield Town where the riot cops on their way to the A10 where they're attacking Cineworld and Krispy Kreme. Classy.
Oh dear, stay safe - keep indoors, if you car gets damaged don't try and intervene.
Yeah, it's kinda stupid as in no way is Enfield some inner city ghetto.
Legitimate 'community' policing issues vs opportunist bored teenagers/petty criminals/rent-a-mob. :hmm:
Dont worry our resident.....that is
your resident multiculturalists will soon come around to explain that this is the fault of whitey and you should be happy that the underprivileged youths are empowering themselves.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 07, 2011, 05:14:57 PM
Sorry to hear that you are in the firing line Brazen. Isn't Enfield a rather unusual place for lowlife scum to start looting? What's going on?
Overheard from group of thugs, "Too many Feds in Tottenham and they've got nicer shops here."
The groups were about 50/50 black and white, because everyone likes a 42" plasma TV. No racial element this far out in the burbs. Besides, it was 99% imported. They'd shut down Enfield Town station so my place was en route between the nearest other station and the town. Hundreds upon hundreds of thugs in hoodies and wearing balaclavas, scarves and masks streamed in from about 6pm onwards. Some were parking up in their Vauxhall Corsas and walking in so they'd have something to carry the loot home in. They'd arranged to meet down the road opposite teh staion where they kicked down front-garden walls to have bricks and other missiles to hand.
We went into town on the pretext of a pint between "bouts", but the pub was shut. We did get to see the gangs and hear their plans and get an idea of the damage. Riot police were strung out in a line across the street - helmets, shields, batons, dogs, the lot. It kicked off again literally five minutes after we returned home.
As well as the aforementioned shops, they raided a jewellers, a chemist and a sandwich shop, and rumour has it they burned out Nandos. Talk about shitting on your own doorstep, seeing as that's where today's multicultural yoof hangs out for its fried chicken. They also kicked in a police car and van and set fire to a car down the local "millionaire's row".
After I returned home I could see a string of them heading over the railway line. Following events on Twitter, they were headed out to the retail park on the A10. They threw petrol bombs at cars, raided the Tescos Extra (the one with the electronic goods and large supplies of booze, not the local one), Toys R Us and Currys electrical. There's no proof they burned down Krispy Kreme.
Coverage by the BBC and Sky was crap, they had all their reporters in Tottenham. We knew far more about what was going on from Twitter and YouTube.
All back to normal suburban civility again, but I expect it to kick off again next weekend in various bits of north London, especially as the weather's forecast to be nice. No looting in the rain.
The UK looking more and more like France. Looting in nice areas though if not city centre. :hmm:
They may be white on the outside, but have no illusions: they are perfectly well integrated into the brown, multicultural sludge.
This is what you wanted, isn't it?
Congratulations.
There was very little news coverage last night, this is probably the best report:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/trouble-enfield-organised (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/trouble-enfield-organised)
With regard to the original crime, they keep referring to the shot bloke as a "young man". He was a 29 year old with a string of drugs offences behind him. Special officers don't turn up wielding weapons for a parking offence, they had intelligence armed crime was under way.
He had a gun in his sock, apparently, but "wasn't the sort of guy to wave a gun at a policeman," his family said. Officer's aren't supposed to shoot unless under direct threat. A "non-police issue" gun was found at the scene of the crime, but the only other bullet fired was found lodged in a police radio and it was police issue.
I said at the time if US cities rioted every time police shot dead an armed criminal, no-one would have time to do anything else.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 07, 2011, 05:14:57 PM
Sorry to hear that you are in the firing line Brazen. Isn't Enfield a rather unusual place for lowlife scum to start looting? What's going on?
About 15 years ago, Enfield headed the league for teenage pregnancies. This is the result.
Edit: On checking my facts, it headed the league of London boroughs, not the UK, but it soared by 40% in one year.
Quote from: Slargos on August 08, 2011, 03:22:35 AM
They may be white on the outside, but have no illusions: they are perfectly well integrated into the brown, multicultural sludge.
This is what you wanted, isn't it?
Congratulations.
Enfield demographics have not shifted significantly since I was a teenager myself, with the exception of it now having the largest Polish population in the UK, and I can assure you there were no Poles involved last night. There were a lot of Turks involved, but they're at the heart of most gang violence in this area of north London.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:29:22 AM
There was very little news coverage last night, this is probably the best report:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/trouble-enfield-organised (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/trouble-enfield-organised)
Of course there wasn't. :ph34r:
A picture of diversity - men, women, white, black, all out on the rob.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg810.imageshack.us%2Fimg810%2F8264%2Farticle20235540d57acf20.jpg&hash=55a1697edd0c64b983bc7725abc5ec1bfbfb4874) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/810/article20235540d57acf20.jpg/)
The Daily Fail described the Enfield looters as "anarchists". Do they even own a dictionary at that misbegotten rag?
Maybe they are just practicing for the shot put team.
The coverage of events has been lamentable, amidst all the PC-speak it is hard to get a picture of what is actually happening. I have the impression that the initial Tottenham riot was black people going on the rampage after a dubious shooting (I'm sorry but one does not necessarily believe the Metropolitan police, they are the LAPD of Britain). The subsequent riots/looting raids seem to be more generic underclass chancers taking advantage of the situation and using social media to organise.
Clegg described the second night of rioting as "needless opportunistic theft and violence", no doubt he intends to contrast that with garden variety theft and violence which is perfectly ok :lol:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 08, 2011, 05:01:55 AM
The subsequent riots/looting raids seem to be more generic underclass chancers taking advantage of the situation and using social media to organise.
Middle class more like. There were some every nice clothes and cars going on, and no inner city accents, despite their efforts at urban slang. Calling coppers "the Feds" is the latest amusing attempt.
:bleeding:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 08, 2011, 05:01:55 AM
The coverage of events has been lamentable, amidst all the PC-speak it is hard to get a picture of what is actually happening.
Yeees. :shifty:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_9nll9bhpPDk%2FTE_gb3bfcEI%2FAAAAAAAAAxI%2FNndsq4FZEQg%2Fs1600%2FdarthVader.jpg&hash=2416c7bda81443e3a17f53db305ae4ceb52ef059)
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 08, 2011, 05:01:55 AM
The coverage of events has been lamentable
|Last night the BBC and Sky had reporters in Tottenham, where nothing was happening, reporting on what was happening in Enfield based entirely on the #Enfield Twitter hashtag, as far as I could tell.
It seems an idea I first heard from my dad has now gained popular supprt. Spray all trouble-makers at riots with SmartWater and deal with the fuckers later.
Come to sunny Enfield. None of these images are more than 10 minutes' walk from my place.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14438669 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14438669)
As Languish visitors will attest, this is completely out of character; for the most part Enfield is the picture of suburban idyll.
A race riot in England is so utterly adorable, like a puppy. Little. New. Different.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2011, 05:44:05 AM
A race riot in England is so utterly adorable, like a puppy. Little. New. Different.
Except I can remember the 80s when it actually was about race and it really was riots.
Edit: If you had a quid for every black face on that BBC coverage (the majority of which is just outside my doctor's surgery and the Irish pub) you wouldn't have enough for two pints.
Bloody youth of today, eh? Can't even organise a proper race riot :mad:
I'm annoyed now, can you tell? I might go and riot against the looters on their home turf of Edmonton. I'm prepared to put a bet on that being where they swarmed in from. We've got much better shops, you see.
Ken Livingstone reckons it's due to the cuts :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687484/Ken-Livingstone-blames-Tottenham-riot-on-spending-cuts.html
Fucking yoofs, torched a Currys five minutes walk from my flat after they got bored of burning down local businesses in Brixton.
Amusing to see people already waving this away as the product of The Cuts, inner-city deprivation, etc etc, as if poor people just can't help themselves from rioting and looting.
Hey Brits, do your blacks walk as slow in stores as ours, yet still drive like maniacs?
These problems aren't the result of planned cuts, but a problem with police and community relations which is long-standing in Tottenham (and probably most of north London). This just required a trigger, and it got one. The opportunist rent-a-mob quickly resurfaced too.
That's a lovely hummingbird avatar, Pal.
Did you know when they migrate in North America to Central America, they don't follow the land but fly directly across the Gulf of Mexico? Amazing natural engineering.
I was just watching footage of the Tottenham rioting, then realized it was just the trailer for Rise of the Planet of the Apes.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2011, 06:20:33 AM
That's a lovely hummingbird avatar, Pal.
Did you know when they migrate in North America to Central America, they don't follow the land but fly directly across the Gulf of Mexico? Amazing natural engineering.
No I wasn't aware of that. It's quite amazing given their short wingspan.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2011, 06:21:32 AM
I was just watching footage of the Tottenham rioting, then realized it was just the trailer for Rise of the Planet of the Apes.
The rioters are NOT apes. :mad:
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 06:33:13 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2011, 06:21:32 AM
I was just watching footage of the Tottenham rioting, then realized it was just the trailer for Rise of the Planet of the Apes.
The rioters are NOT apes. :mad:
Yes they are.
Apparently Blackberries are now the weapon of choice for the disaffected yoof rather than being an executive wank toy, mainly because of the security of BBM. Here's a charming example from an article mooting that theory:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F2045%2Ff89da8fe2a224a678f3c18e.jpg&hash=5ce463a76c6b3c3837d2d06a8fe12262b6df3f70) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/f89da8fe2a224a678f3c18e.jpg/)
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 07:10:00 AM
Apparently Blackberries are now the weapon of choice for the disaffected yoof rather than being an executive wank toy, mainly because of the security of BBM. Here's a charming example from an article mooting that theory:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F2045%2Ff89da8fe2a224a678f3c18e.jpg&hash=5ce463a76c6b3c3837d2d06a8fe12262b6df3f70) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/f89da8fe2a224a678f3c18e.jpg/)
Lol the feds!
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 06:59:03 AM
Yes they are.
I'd bow to Brain's knowledge on the subject, he volunteers nights and weekends at the local zoo.
I had to look up what bally is slang for. Balaclava or other face-covering scarf, apparently.
Quote from: Octavian on August 08, 2011, 07:17:37 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 07:10:00 AM
Apparently Blackberries are now the weapon of choice for the disaffected yoof rather than being an executive wank toy, mainly because of the security of BBM. Here's a charming example from an article mooting that theory:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F2045%2Ff89da8fe2a224a678f3c18e.jpg&hash=5ce463a76c6b3c3837d2d06a8fe12262b6df3f70) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/f89da8fe2a224a678f3c18e.jpg/)
Lol the feds!
I laughed out loud last night when browsing video uploads from the front line on twitter.
First, some moron had uploaded a picture of himself proudly holding loot as if inviting the Police to identify him. But not only that; he was loading the loot into the back of a car with the licence plate clearly visible in the photo.
Second, a video clip of a crowd attacking the Footlocker - then some rood runs across the shot shouting "BRAP BRAP BRAP".
Sigh.
Is the Krispy Kreme all right and operating?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 07:52:01 AM
Is the Krispy Kreme all right and operating?
Yes, rumours of Krispy Kreme and Nandos being burned down were exaggerated. It would be too much like shitting on their own doorsteps.
:)
Y'all dodged a bullet there.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 07:56:04 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 07:52:01 AM
Is the Krispy Kreme all right and operating?
Yes, rumours of Krispy Kreme and Nandos being burned down were exaggerated. It would be too much like shitting on their own doorsteps.
Norf London's well posh.
Dahn Saff the only hallowed ground is Chicken Cottage.
The latest rumours are that people are dropping petrol bombs onto the A10 (at £1.40 a litre, how can they afford it?) and there's been a car-jacking. People who work in the town centre have been sent home as crowds are gathering again.
How can there be crowds? Don't they have jobs to go to??
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 08:08:50 AM
How can there be crowds? Don't they have jobs to go to??
Teenagers. Summer holiday.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 05:37:04 AM
It seems an idea I first heard from my dad has now gained popular supprt. Spray all trouble-makers at riots with SmartWater and deal with the fuckers later.
Paintball guns with a colour of the day might be much much cheaper.
Crap, they've closed off the town centre and sent businesses home for the day as crowds are gathering again. My journey home could be fun as I'll be coming the same way and on the same train the thugs came in on last night.
Why not just have the army machinegun the crowds?
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 08:20:10 AM
Why not just have the army machinegun the crowds?
The army can't afford the bullets.
Brazen, stay safe. It has to be pretty scary being in the middle of this. These thugs and low lifes are just out with an excuse to riot, pillage and get some loot. Same as happens in the US.
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 08:27:06 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 08:20:10 AM
Why not just have the army machinegun the crowds?
The army can't afford the bullets.
How 'bout grapeshot? A whiff of grapeshot has been known to work in the past.
Quote from: BrazenI'm annoyed now, can you tell? I might go and riot against the looters on their home turf of Edmonton. I'm prepared to put a bet on that being where they swarmed in from. We've got much better shops, you see.
:mad:
We have the largest mall in North America! There's no way our punks are flying across the globe just to riot in Enfield!
:yawn:
Beeb and his Captain Canada act.
Blame Canada!
They're not even a real country anyway. :rolleyes:
Quote from: KRonn on August 08, 2011, 08:42:59 AM
Brazen, stay safe. It has to be pretty scary being in the middle of this. These thugs and low lifes are just out with an excuse to riot, pillage and get some loot. Same as happens in the US.
:yes:
*fingers crossed*
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 09:27:47 AM
:yawn:
Beeb and his Captain Canada act.
:blush: Somehow I left out Brazen's quotre that I was responding to. Now fixed.
And if I don't stand up for the West Edmonton Mall, who will? -_-
Giant malls are overrated.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 09:36:05 AM
Giant malls are overrated.
Having a giant mall and the fact Wayne Gretzky played here 30 years ago are all that Edmonton has going for it! :mad:
:unsure:
:(
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 09:31:23 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 09:27:47 AM
:yawn:
Beeb and his Captain Canada act.
:blush: Somehow I left out Brazen's quotre that I was responding to. Now fixed.
And if I don't stand up for the West Edmonton Mall, who will? -_-
Not me, that's for sure.
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 08:27:06 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 08:20:10 AM
Why not just have the army machinegun the crowds?
The army can't afford the bullets.
I recommend cutting the funds to Islamic terrorist recruiting centres and reducing the costs related to imposing sharia across the UK, and use that to buy a few pallets of bullets.
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 09:37:40 AM
Having a giant mall and the fact Wayne Gretzky played here 30 years ago are all that Edmonton has going for it! :mad:
:unsure:
:(
Uncannily, Edmonton had the first shopping centre in North London :P
The best-substantiated rumours have it that tonight's riot is moving on to Palmer's Green and Winchmore Hill, where the mainly Kurdish shop owners are gearing up to defend their property. I don't fancy the looters' chances.
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 08:20:10 AM
Why not just have the army machinegun the crowds?
That's what I thought.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 10:51:37 AM
The best-substantiated rumours have it that tonight's riot is moving on to Palmer's Green and Winchmore Hill, where the mainly Kurdish shop owners are gearing up to defend their property. I don't fancy the looters' chances.
I hope a few looters get stabbed by kebab knives. :thumbsup:
Just as well I didn't put any cash on it, it's kicking off in Hackney instead.
Here's some live lame looting for you:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089)
lol some black old guy was arguing on Sky News (against a couple of sane persons) how this is the fault of lack of dialog. And the solution is that the police stop Teh Violence, and start a discussion with this righteously angry youth, to come to a compromise. According to what I got of his view, it is not right to use violence when one of the concerned parties do not want to be violenced upon.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
Here's some live lame looting for you:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089)
not available in your territory
Fucktard beeb. :mad:
Dunno if it was intentional, but over the weekend some CNN footage of a burning bus had a "Low Emission Zone" sign in the foreground before it zoomed in. I admit it, I giggled a little.
Spreading to Birmingham and Leeds now apparently. The Chav Spring is upon us!
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 08, 2011, 01:55:27 PM
Spreading to Birmingham and Leeds now apparently. The Chav Spring is upon us!
The Plaid Revolution?
The Burberry revolution. :lol:
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 08, 2011, 01:55:27 PM
Spreading to Birmingham and Leeds now apparently. The Chav Spring is upon us!
The Rise of the Planet of the Chavs.
There don't seem to be enough police deployed on the streets, given the instances of arson that are taking place I'm surprised at the softly, softly approached adopted towards such serious and life threatening crime.
Time for the police to start breaking a few skulls and if they don't have the manpower to intervene, I'd like to see baton rounds used to deter these rioters and reclaim the streets from them.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthewildbeesnest.ie%2FLuke_Stage_One_files%2FThe_Massacre_of_Peterloo.jpg&hash=74d76c8b384ab0aaa6cf585f4c6c4c74f428a2de)
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 02:34:17 PM
There don't seem to be enough police deployed on the streets, given the instances of arson that are taking place I'm surprised at the softly, softly approached adopted towards such serious and life threatening crime.
Time for the police to start breaking a few skulls and if they don't have the manpower to intervene, I'd like to see baton rounds used to deter these rioters and reclaim the streets from them.
GIven how it all started over an allegation of "police brutality" I'm not surprised at all.
They keep on calling it "mindless violence" :hmm:
In the absence of any moral concerns it seems far from mindless to me given the police response. One can have a thoruoghly entertaining evening rioting and get some new consumer electronics, with only a mild risk of a slapped wrist from the plod.
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 02:34:17 PM
There don't seem to be enough police deployed on the streets, given the instances of arson that are taking place I'm surprised at the softly, softly approached adopted towards such serious and life threatening crime.
Time for the police to start breaking a few skulls and if they don't have the manpower to intervene, I'd like to see baton rounds used to deter these rioters and reclaim the streets from them.
GIven how it all started over an allegation of "police brutality" I'm not surprised at all.
Yes, but passivity in the face of these riots enables more crimes to be committed,than if a more robust tactics were used.
I see little point the police saying they're photographing troublemakers and that they'll be brought to book later, if in the meantime these miscreants can make hay.
If this carries on much longer we could well be getting a story along the lines of "a hard working immigrant family were trapped and burnt to death in their flat above a looted shop".
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 02:43:30 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthewildbeesnest.ie%2FLuke_Stage_One_files%2FThe_Massacre_of_Peterloo.jpg&hash=74d76c8b384ab0aaa6cf585f4c6c4c74f428a2de)
I thought Churchill gained his weight after he left the cavalry.
QuoteWEST ALLIS - Witnesses tell Newsradio 620 WTMJ and TODAY'S TMJ4 of a mob of young people attacking innocent fair-goers at the end of the opening night of State Fair, with some callers claiming a racially-charged scene.
Witnesses' accounts claim everything from dozens to hundreds of young black people beating white people as they left State Fair Thursday night.
With a 4% economy growth in 2011, an unemployment rate lower than that of the US, no blacks, no muslims, no riots and a centrist moderate party in power, I'm starting to agree with you guys who always claimed that Poland is not really a part of the West. We are nothing like you, guys. :hug:
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 02:34:17 PM
There don't seem to be enough police deployed on the streets, given the instances of arson that are taking place I'm surprised at the softly, softly approached adopted towards such serious and life threatening crime.
Time for the police to start breaking a few skulls and if they don't have the manpower to intervene, I'd like to see baton rounds used to deter these rioters and reclaim the streets from them.
GIven how it all started over an allegation of "police brutality" I'm not surprised at all.
Yes, but passivity in the face of these riots enables more crimes to be committed,than if a more robust tactics were used.
I see little point the police saying they're photographing troublemakers and that they'll be brought to book later, if in the meantime these miscreants can make hay.
If this carries on much longer we could well be getting a story along the lines of "a hard working immigrant family were trapped and burnt to death in their flat above a looted shop".
Remember who you are talking to - I have no problem with 'robust police tactics'. :menace:
But as a dispassionate observer, I can tell you I'm not surprised the police are being a bit more hands off.
You know at first this reminded me a lot of the Vancouver riot - a lot of lower to middle class kids using any excuse to loot and riot "for the lulz". But after that night of rioting in Vancouver the rest of the city seemed to come together, tried to clean up / help out, and to catch those responsible.
I'm really surprised this is allowed to start again the following night.
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 02:54:43 PM
QuoteWEST ALLIS - Witnesses tell Newsradio 620 WTMJ and TODAY'S TMJ4 of a mob of young people attacking innocent fair-goers at the end of the opening night of State Fair, with some callers claiming a racially-charged scene.
Witnesses' accounts claim everything from dozens to hundreds of young black people beating white people as they left State Fair Thursday night.
With a 4% economy growth in 2011, an unemployment rate lower than that of the US, no blacks, no muslims, no riots and a centrist moderate party in power, I'm starting to agree with you guys who always claimed that Poland is not really a part of the West. We are nothing like you, guys. :hug:
Poland's unemployment rate? You claimed 9%, best I can find online is 11.8%, but in any event:
Canada's unemployment rate is 7.2%
4% economic growth? We grew at an annual rate of 5.8% in first quarter, 2% second quarter.
Thankfully we HAVE blacks and muslims (and Chinese, and south asians, and natives, and everyone else) who don't feel the need to riot unless somebody loses a hockey game, and a centre right governing power.
:cool:
I don't know where you have been looking, but surely not the European statistical agency which is the only credible source on this:
http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=132.STS.M.PL.S.UNEH.RTT000.4.000
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 03:18:21 PM
I don't know where you have been looking, but surely not the European statistical agency which is the only credible source on this:
http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=132.STS.M.PL.S.UNEH.RTT000.4.000
But that's still a lot worse than 7.2%, which was my point. :P
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 03:20:17 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 03:18:21 PM
I don't know where you have been looking, but surely not the European statistical agency which is the only credible source on this:
http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=132.STS.M.PL.S.UNEH.RTT000.4.000
But that's still a lot worse than 7.2%, which was my point. :P
We don't have sharia law. :P
Fuck me, Croydon's ablaze. It's more destructive than the 80s riots but thankfully less murderous. I've actually identified what I need to grab if I have to leave a hurry.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:22:50 PM
Fuck me, Croydon's ablaze. It's more destructive than the 80s riots but thankfully less murderous. I've actually identified what I need to grab if I have to leave a hurry.
Jesus.
There's a very sensible piece of advice being repeated by politicians, police and community leaders - call your kids, your younger siblings, your niece you nephew. Find out where they are. Bring them home.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:22:50 PM
Fuck me, Croydon's ablaze. It's more destructive than the 80s riots but thankfully less murderous. I've actually identified what I need to grab if I have to leave a hurry.
So far.
Yeah, that big blaze in Croydon looks bad, the heat and flames setting nearby buildings on fire.
Stay safe.
I was going to continue the mindless 'my country is betetr than yours' with Marti, but it's sounding a bit too serious for Brazen, so I'll cut it out.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:29:51 PM
There's a very sending piece of advice being repeated by politicians, police and community leaders - call your kids, your younger siblings, your niece you nephew. Find out where they are. Bring them home.
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Croydons ablaze.. having been there I gotta say, it's probably an improvement.
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
if ABB has TV or the internet he is laughing, but is slightly confused that these al-shabab aren't muslims.
There is no incongruity here. These people have been thoroughly multiculturalized. ABB never stipulated race as the root problem.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
I read an interesting editorial in the Guardian, where the author claimed this is a result of the police effectively abdicating control over the "rough neighborhoods" by refusing to engage in good old fashioned crime prevention there.
Your politicians and policemen should really read some books about Sam Vimes.
Who is ABB?
ABB is a Swedish engineering company.
QuoteTottenham violence is a wake-up call for the police
John O'Connor
guardian.co.uk, Monday 8 August 2011 18.30 BST
The Metropolitan police have taken the easy option by replacing proper law enforcement with courtesy cops in 'no-go areas'
It is highly unlikely that foreign police agencies will ever again turn to Scotland Yard for advice on public order. Contingency plans and public order training were vividly exposed as inadequate during the riots in London over the past few days. In Tottenham on Saturday night, there did not appear to be a coherent plan of action and in the ensuing turmoil it was extremely lucky that nobody was seriously hurt or killed in the burning buildings.
The police were not up against armed terrorists; apart from a hardcore of meat-eaters, who were probably inspired by an anarchist agenda, the rest were grass-eaters, feeding like jackals on the remains of looted shops.
Since the Broadwater Farm riots 26 years ago, the police have largely abandoned proactive policing – which involves sending plainclothes officers out to catch criminals in the act – in what are deemed sensitive areas. Any law enforcement in these areas is treated with a simmering resentment which quickly erupts into violence. The easy option for the police has been to designate them as "no-go areas", effectively abandoning the silent majority to a life of misery under the threat of violence and crime. Crime is going down, says the Home Office – but tell that to the residents of some of these estates. These people have no voice. The best the police can offer is a sergeant, a constable and two police community support officers. It's called "the neighbourhood policing team". We have replaced law enforcement with courtesy cops. Cuts to policing are evident in the mere fact that visible, proactive patrols don't exist any more.
Valiant efforts have been made by the police to form partnerships with other agencies and community leaders, but does anybody in their right mind believe that lawless gangs can be persuaded by people of good intentions to live a fulfilled life? Just living in an area does not make you a member of that community. And allegations of institutional racism look lame when you consider the multiracial makeup of these feckless gangsters.
The events of the past few days should serve as a wake-up call for the police, especially with the Olympics just round the corner. They need to revise their tactics and obtain the right equipment to enable them to quickly gain control in public order situations.
As for the Bullingdon boys: where were they? None of them could be bothered to return from their holidays, and we have hardly heard a peep from them, apart from the usual platitudes of "mindless violence" etc. The mayor of London, Boris Johnson, was slow to respond to demands he come back and show support for a police force that does not have a commissioner. Even the deputy commissioner has not been seen and one would have thought this would be a good opportunity to cement his claim for the top job. Our so-called leaders have not shown the dedication and duty expected. The public are entitled to expect leadership and reassurance: they got nothing.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.
yes, the belief that they are entitled to reject the authority of the state and they feel entitled to use the mere presence of an "institutionally racist" metropolitan police force on the streets after a fire fight where the criminal lost to the cops.
I think most people would like our police to take a firmer stance and more preventative action, though this seems to be equally criticised (ironically the Guardian is usually carrying the torch in criticising the police). The police can never win!
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 08, 2011, 04:02:23 PM
Who is ABB?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgreatersurbiton.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fbreivik.jpg&hash=07f39268fdd2a974e6c640b1461f7e2481fc569e)
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.
yes, the belief that they are entitled to reject the authority of the state and they feel entitled to use the mere presence of an "institutionally racist" metropolitan police force on the streets after a fire fight where the criminal lost to the cops.
Nah, I think you got it wrong. What's happening in the streets of London is not *because* of something special - it's just juvenile delinquents behaving the way juvenile delinquents behave. There is nothing special that differentiates them from juvenile delinquents in Paris, Berlin or Warsaw.
The difference is in the lack of proper (not necessarily more violent, but faster and more decisive) response from the police. But with goofs like Boris Johnson running the city, it's to be expected (it's a pity the choice there seems to be really between equally incompetent and detestable Johnson and Livingstone).
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.
I think it's more basic - just a lack of respect for authority, for the rights of others. Going out rooting is just seen as "fun" if they think they can get away with it.
After two decades of being under attack for being racist, cruel, brutal and inhuman they have tried to satisfy the demands of the unsatisfiable. The "community" seems to have immediately jumped to the conclusion of murder and the mere presence of police on the streets that they are supposed to keep safe is seen as a provocation.
I'm not referring to the chaos and looting related to the rioting; that is the local yobs just stealing shit cause they can get away with it. I referring to the issue that provoked the riots. A notorious criminal pulls a gun on the police, gets shot. The population then revolts against the insult of the police being on the streets itself.
QuotePanic on the streets of London
Panic on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
Could life ever be sane again ?
The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
I wonder to myself
Hopes may rise on the Grasmere
But Honey Pie, you're not safe here
So you run down
To the safety of the town
But there's Panic on the streets of Carlisle
Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
I wonder to myself
Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music that they constantly play
IT SAYS NOTHING TO ME ABOUT MY LIFE
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music they constantly play
On the Leeds side-streets that you slip down
Provincial towns you jog 'round
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ
:cool:
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
I don't understand why did not those happen this afternoon the latest. Even the Hungarian police knew they need to be deployed in case of a riot.
Quote from: Tamas on August 08, 2011, 04:40:57 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
I don't understand why did not those happen this afternoon the latest. Even the Hungarian police knew they need to be deployed in case of a riot.
I'm pretty sure the Hungarian police are less concerned about appearing to be 'sensitive' and not urged to engage in 'dialogue'.
I enjoyed the live coverage on CNN international.
If the state doesn't think it's its job to maintain law and order in the streets why pay any taxes?
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
I read an interesting editorial in the Guardian, where the author claimed this is a result of the police effectively abdicating control over the "rough neighborhoods" by refusing to engage in good old fashioned crime prevention there.
Your politicians and policemen should really read some books about Sam Vimes.
The Guardian's opinion pages might carry more weight if they didn't disregard crime prevention as racist.
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 08, 2011, 02:18:50 PM
The Burberry revolution. :lol:
Yes that's what I was thinking. :D
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
No. Not at all.
But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
"Good old fashioned" crime prevention got us the riots of the 1980s, something the crush'em law 'n' order crowd seem to forget.
This is essentially a dispersed series of hit and run lootings, setting alight to the odd building which provides a powerful visual point long after the rioters have been cleared.
I can't help but feel a bit blase about all this, but maybe that's because the last riot I lived through turned into a pogrom and saw the fall of a dictator.
Worth going to the Getty Image site to see some of the pictures:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache1.asset-cache.net%2Fxc%2F120692895.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26amp%3Bc%3DIWSAsset%26amp%3Bk%3D2%26amp%3Bd%3D77BFBA49EF878921E86F5CE8BE5D78FB627571A0DC2EB020BABD9520D349E6DCC3201DE84558B4AD&hash=b7bfc249cbfa5ece2017e5503aa2e0f7b73884f8)
Quote
LONDON, ENGLAND - AUGUST 08: Local residents flee Clarence Road in Hackney on August 8, 2011 in London, England.
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/Search/Search.aspx?EventId=120817027&EditorialProduct=News (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/Search/Search.aspx?EventId=120817027&EditorialProduct=News)
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 04:59:21 PM
"Good old fashioned" crime prevention got us the riots of the 1980s, something the crush'em law 'n' order crowd seem to forget.
This is essentially a dispersed series of hit and run lootings, setting alight to the odd building which provides a powerful visual point long after the rioters have been cleared.
I can't help but feel a bit blase about all this, but maybe that's because the last riot I lived through turned into a pogrom and saw the fall of a dictator.
Good job no one, other than Brain, is calling for that in this thread.
What they need is armed Korean storekeepers.
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
No. Not at all.
But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
I think I'm willing to trust the Brain over you when it comes to crime prevention. The murder rate in Edmonton has exploded since you got on the job. :mad:
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2011, 05:03:49 PM
What they need is armed Korean storekeepers.
The mobs seem to be avoiding the minority shops where they might expect to be shot in favour of the corporate stores who have insurance.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2011, 05:03:49 PM
What they need is armed Korean storekeepers.
:yes:
I loved the footage from the LA riots when the Koreans manned the roofs and opened fire.
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
No. Not at all.
But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
I think I'm willing to trust the Brain over you when it comes to crime prevention. The murder rate in Edmonton has exploded since you got on the job. :mad:
It appears I came to Edmonton just in time. :cool:
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 05:11:43 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
No. Not at all.
But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
I think I'm willing to trust the Brain over you when it comes to crime prevention. The murder rate in Edmonton has exploded since you got on the job. :mad:
It appears I came to Edmonton just in time. :cool:
I doubt that the legal system will be very useful in fighting crime, unless you're Judge Dredd.
I think Warspite has a good point. There are some rather good fires and a lot of looting, but so far no deaths. I'm not at all sure that the adoption of Eastern European style policing would help matters in the long run.
I would also like to congratulate Marty that Warsaw, for the first time in several centuries, may be a better place to be than London right now, for a day or two at least :P
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 04:17:39 PM
After two decades of being under attack for being racist, cruel, brutal and inhuman they have tried to satisfy the demands of the unsatisfiable. The "community" seems to have immediately jumped to the conclusion of murder and the mere presence of police on the streets that they are supposed to keep safe is seen as a provocation.
I'm not referring to the chaos and looting related to the rioting; that is the local yobs just stealing shit cause they can get away with it. I referring to the issue that provoked the riots. A notorious criminal pulls a gun on the police, gets shot. The population then revolts against the insult of the police being on the streets itself.
Incredibly, you have preempted even the Metropolitan Police's own report into the incident. Bravo. Who's your inside source at Scotland Yard?
A shame they a) didn't tell you about the peaceful protest against the Police's handling of the killing on Friday and b) the fact that the only weapon found was in a sock, and was therefore 'not pulled'. His death wasn't in fact even the direct trigger for the rioting in Tottenham.
But hey, don't let the fact that no one actually knows yet what happened in the incident stop you from railing against "the community" about which you know nothing.
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
It's official I'm old and cranky, I 'wrote' to the Prime Minister about this curfew. :bowler:
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 05:13:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 05:11:43 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
No. Not at all.
But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
I think I'm willing to trust the Brain over you when it comes to crime prevention. The murder rate in Edmonton has exploded since you got on the job. :mad:
It appears I came to Edmonton just in time. :cool:
I doubt that the legal system will be very useful in fighting crime, unless you're Judge Dredd.
The legal system is an essential part of fighting crime - but only in the medium to long term.
It takes months to see a file through to its ultimate disposition. Obviously in the midst of a murder spree, or rioting / looting, there's little your friendly neighborhood Crown Counsel can do.
But in terms of helping to rehabilitate some in order that they not commit further crimes, giving deterrence to others to scare them from committing more crimes, and in terms of locking up dangerous offenders so they can't commit more crimes, we're an essential part of the process. :cool:
Quote from: Brazen on August 07, 2011, 03:52:46 PM
I'm rather worried for my car and flat as they're all coming down the footpath through our car park between Enfield Town where the riot cops on their way to the A10 where they're attacking Cineworld and Krispy Kreme. Classy.
Load your guns and shoot anybody that touches your car. Consider getting together with your neighbours and barricading your street.
As an alternative, find some nice urban hide and snipe any long range targets of oportunity the rioters might offer you.
Terrorize the terrorizers, don't let come near your block without paying the price.
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 05:21:33 PM
The legal system is an essential part of fighting crime - but only in the medium to long term.
It takes months to see a file through to its ultimate disposition. Obviously in the midst of a murder spree, or rioting / looting, there's little your friendly neighborhood Crown Counsel can do.
But in terms of helping to rehabilitate some in order that they not commit further crimes, giving deterrence to others to scare them from committing more crimes, and in terms of locking up dangerous offenders so they can't commit more crimes, we're an essential part of the process. :cool:
It's the law of the jungle out there. Since the province can't protect us, it's the duty of all citizens to carry weapons at all times.
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 05:21:33 PM
The legal system is an essential part of fighting crime - but only in the medium to long term.
It takes months to see a file through to its ultimate disposition. Obviously in the midst of a murder spree, or rioting / looting, there's little your friendly neighborhood Crown Counsel can do.
But in terms of helping to rehabilitate some in order that they not commit further crimes, giving deterrence to others to scare them from committing more crimes, and in terms of locking up dangerous offenders so they can't commit more crimes, we're an essential part of the process. :cool:
It's the law of the jungle out there. Since the province can't protect us, it's the duty of all citizens to carry weapons at all times.
Stop listening to militia group podcasts, Neil. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2011, 05:03:49 PM
What they need is armed Korean storekeepers.
:yes:
I loved the footage from the LA riots when the Koreans manned the roofs and opened fire.
That impressed me when I was a kid.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2011, 05:03:49 PM
What they need is armed Korean storekeepers.
:yes:
I loved the footage from the LA riots when the Koreans manned the roofs and opened fire.
That impressed me when I was a kid.
Those guys had excellent fire discipline.
Supposedly, many of the shopkeepers were ex-ROK army.
If this continues, I'm walking across the street to talk to the local business owners about setting up a civil defence unit.
Down in Dalston, the Turks took up kebab knives to defend their shops. Awesome.
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 05:48:52 PM
Down in Dalston, the Turks took up kebab knives to defend their shops. Awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPqpDDEJgb8
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 05:48:52 PM
If this continues, I'm walking across the street to talk to the local business owners about setting up a civil defence unit.
Down in Dalston, the Turks took up kebab knives to defend their shops. Awesome.
Half an hour ago, you were feeling all blasé about it. :hmm:
Originally saw this on the Paradox OT: http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH :lol:
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 04:24:57 PM
["Panic" by The Smiths lyrics]
:cool:
The Smiths were behind it all along! Subliminal messaging FTW!
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
That sounds a bit like the psychology of domestic violence.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 05:52:21 PM
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 05:48:52 PM
If this continues, I'm walking across the street to talk to the local business owners about setting up a civil defence unit.
Down in Dalston, the Turks took up kebab knives to defend their shops. Awesome.
Half an hour ago, you were feeling all blasé about it. :hmm:
I am, but I've always wanted to form a civil defence unit.
The riot in 90 seconds. With depressing music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc6_ov6GK68&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 06:07:52 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 05:52:21 PM
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 05:48:52 PM
If this continues, I'm walking across the street to talk to the local business owners about setting up a civil defence unit.
Down in Dalston, the Turks took up kebab knives to defend their shops. Awesome.
Half an hour ago, you were feeling all blasé about it. :hmm:
I am, but I've always wanted to form a civil defence unit.
Something like this?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserbianna.com%2Fblogs%2Fsavich%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F01%2Fchetniks_fighting_guerrillaslanternimage1.jpg&hash=72d4f0239f955f746f6bd8c4835626f283f8deac)
I've lost track of where is being affected, latest:
Croydon - several fires.
Clapham - high street shops looted and a major fire.
Clapham Junction - Carphone warehouse on fire
Camden - looting.
Woolwich - hundreds of 'youths' looting shops
Chalk Farm - looting.
Ealing - looting.
Lavender hill - looting.
Hopefully, the Geordies will burn Newcastle to the ground and they will all starve to death.
Report after report, mention the invisibility of the police, the story seems to be, a shopping high street gets looted and some police turn up around an hour later, after the damage has been done.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 06:15:07 PM
Camden - looting.
Heh, you could give that report any old day for Camden, New Jersey and it'd be accurate. :)
So, is there a chance I'm going to see some Paras in the streets when I wake up tomorrow and turn on the news? :bowler:
Or is Cameron going to be a pussy? :homestar:
I should mention that it's not just looting, there's plenty of reports of violent assaults; I watched earlier on channel 4 news, a typical 20-something tattooed Londoner describing how he saw people being attacked because they were trying to defend a bus driver, he could believe what he was seeing.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 06:27:51 PM
So, is there a chance I'm going to see some Paras in the streets when I wake up tomorrow and turn on the news? :bowler:
Or is Cameron going to be a pussy? :homestar:
Nil, iirc there's very little military presence in the capital, the blues and royals and the RHA, that's 200-400 men, plus some guardsmen at the barracks on birdcage walk, a battalion at woolwich barracks, surely there must be more ? :unsure:
Then you have to start looking further afield like Essex, Aldershot etc.
OK found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_District_(British_Army) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_District_(British_Army))
So there might be 2,000-2,500* regular soldiers in Greater London.
*assuming no overseas deployments.
So, I guess this is the official end of the British Empire? :hmm:
I mean, isn't it standard to say the Empire ends when the barbarians torch and loot the capital at will?
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 06:09:17 PM
Something like this?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserbianna.com%2Fblogs%2Fsavich%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F01%2Fchetniks_fighting_guerrillaslanternimage1.jpg&hash=72d4f0239f955f746f6bd8c4835626f283f8deac)
I guess this was made before we knew the Chetniks were collaborators.
Quote22.50 Earlier tonight Turkish and Kurdish shopowners in the Stoke Newington area of North London were guarding their premises with baseball bats. There are reports now of "hundreds" of young turkish men chasing a group of young black men down nearby Kingsland Road, Hackney.
1) Turks are cool.
2) Where is the fuck do brits get baseball bats from? You'd think that would be fairly rare.
3) Are they wood or aluminum bats?
Well, they're Turks, so the normal application of the bats is probably in wife-beating activities. :)
Spellus is creaming his pants at the mention of Turks fighting.
Unmanned police station on fire in Handsworth, Birmingham. :hmm:
Another report from Brazen's neck of the wood, the large Sony warehouse at Enfield is on fire.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 06:43:11 PM
Quote22.50 Earlier tonight Turkish and Kurdish shopowners in the Stoke Newington area of North London were guarding their premises with baseball bats. There are reports now of "hundreds" of young turkish men chasing a group of young black men down nearby Kingsland Road, Hackney.
1) Turks are cool.
2) Where is the fuck do brits get baseball bats from? You'd think that would be fairly rare.
3) Are they wood or aluminum bats?
Neither. They are
Aluminium.
Quote from: Caliga on August 08, 2011, 06:44:53 PM
Well, they're Turks, so the normal application of the bats is probably in wifeArmenian-beating activities. :)
Thanks for reminding me about Spellus, Ed. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on August 08, 2011, 06:54:46 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 08, 2011, 06:44:53 PM
Well, they're Turks, so the normal application of the bats is probably in wifeArmenian-beating activities. :)
Thanks for reminding me about Spellus, Ed. :cool:
I'm here for you man. :hug:
Cars set alight in Toxteth, Liverpool.
:lmfao:
Weeks after ABB, the Turks are the only people with the balls to defend European property and livelihood from hordes of Godless chavs. I'm not surprised by this at all.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 06:27:51 PM
So, is there a chance I'm going to see some Paras in the streets when I wake up tomorrow and turn on the news? :bowler:
Or is Cameron going to be a pussy? :homestar:
Nil, iirc there's very little military presence in the capital, the blues and royals and the RHA, that's 200-400 men, plus some guardsmen at the barracks on birdcage walk, a battalion at woolwich barracks, surely there must be more ? :unsure:
Then you have to start looking further afield like Essex, Aldershot etc.
OK found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_District_(British_Army) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_District_(British_Army))
So there might be 2,000-2,500* regular soldiers in Greater London.
*assuming no overseas deployments.
Yes, but the guards regiments will be formed in concentric circles around kensington, whitehall, the city etc. rather than putting on scarlet jackets and riding through the streets.
Yet more fires in Croydon; a small block of buildings are on fire in the north of the suburb; the helicopter footage makes it look a bit like a part of the blitz.
edit:
This is getting fucking stupid, Cameron is going to have to grow a pair tomorrow morning and really stamp this out.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:24:54 PM
This is getting fucking stupid, Cameron is going to have to grow a pair tomorrow morning and really stamp this out.
Our politicians huffed and puffed at the youth when they rioted here a couple of years ago, but what stopped the riots was the ending of the school vacation.
Quote from: Liep on August 08, 2011, 07:31:04 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:24:54 PM
This is getting fucking stupid, Cameron is going to have to grow a pair tomorrow morning and really stamp this out.
Our politicians huffed and puffed at the youth when they rioted here a couple of years ago, but what stopped the riots was the ending of the school vacation.
This looks more like Generation Playstation tries to emulate the Luftwaffe.
Has any private homes been set on fire?
Between checking the twitters and the torygraph, this stuff is interfering with my enjoyment of Gordon Ramsay on Hell's Kitchen.
IT'S RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:24:54 PM
This is getting fucking stupid, Cameron is going to have to grow a pair tomorrow morning and really stamp this out.
What can he do? England will hardly stand for having all these youth receive the brutalization and execution that they so richly deserve.
Quote from: Liep on August 08, 2011, 07:34:01 PM
Has any private homes been set on fire?
Given London's high demand for accommodation, the vast majority of shops have flats above them, so plenty of people and families have been made homeless; I notice the largest fire damaged building in Tottenham on Saturday made 26 families homeless. :mad:
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 07:38:03 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:24:54 PM
This is getting fucking stupid, Cameron is going to have to grow a pair tomorrow morning and really stamp this out.
What can he do? England will hardly stand for having all these youth receive the brutalization and execution that they so richly deserve.
These fires have burnt through the last vestiges of his 'Big Society', I'd like to see 'big boot and big truncheon' taking up the slack for a while.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:33:01 PM
This looks more like Generation Playstation tries to emulate the Luftwaffe.
In your opinion, what is worse for London:
a) a Luftwaffe raid,
or
b) a nigga with a Blackberry
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 08, 2011, 07:51:23 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:33:01 PM
This looks more like Generation Playstation tries to emulate the Luftwaffe.
In your opinion, what is worse for London:
a) a Luftwaffe raid,
or
b) a nigga with a Blackberry
Notice the qualification in the sentence "tries to emulate".
Huge fire at a large Sony depot in Enfield is this related to the riots ?
This is the depot destroyed:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Solar+Way,+Enfield&hl=en&ll=51.67825,-0.020685&spn=0.007491,0.01929&gl=uk&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.67813,-0.020729&panoid=EaPrx6XK2RROF6SMsjz-Xw&cbp=12,152.42,,0,7.61 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Solar+Way,+Enfield&hl=en&ll=51.67825,-0.020685&spn=0.007491,0.01929&gl=uk&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.67813,-0.020729&panoid=EaPrx6XK2RROF6SMsjz-Xw&cbp=12,152.42,,0,7.61)
edit:
Eyewitnesses report it was attacked by looters.
edit:
several areas of Bristol experience disturbances.
edit 2:
the warehouse had previously been misidentified as the Sainsburys warehouse
The revolution to redistribute candy has begun.
Quote
LONDON (AP) — British police say violence and looting has spread to a third city, with authorities handling outbreaks of violence in the northern city of Liverpool.
Liverpool's police department said officers were responding to a "number of isolated outbreaks of disorder," including vehicles set ablaze and buildings attacked in the city's southern neighborhoods.
It follows a major escalation of rioting across London since a wave of violence first broke out on Saturday night. Police in the country's central city of Birmingham also confirmed more than 30 people had been arrested after shops in a main retail district were attacked.
Shops and cars were set ablaze across London late Monday and early on Tuesday as authorities struggled to contain a third night of unrest in Britain's capital, which will host next summer's Olympic Games.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
LONDON (AP) — Violence and looting flared across London on Tuesday — and spread to a second major city — as shops and cars were set ablaze and authorities struggled to contain a third night of unrest in Britain's capital, which will host next summer's Olympic Games.
The worst rioting in London in decades saw buildings, vehicles and garbage dumps set alight, stores burglarized and police officers pelted with bottles and fireworks, as groups of young people rampaged through neighborhoods across the capital from mid-afternoon Monday into the early hours of Tuesday.
A massive blaze swept through a 100-year-old family-run furniture store in the town of Croydon, in south London, and sent thick plumes of smoke into the air, forcing nearby homes to be evacuated.
Police confirmed they were investigating a nonfatal shooting in Croydon, but were unable to say whether or not the incident was linked to the chaos.
In the nation's central city of Birmingham, dozens of people attacked shops in a main retail district — spreading the chaos beyond London for the first time since violence broke out on Saturday night.
As authorities struggled to keep pace with unrest at dozens of flashpoints, Prime Minister David Cameron announced he would cut short his summer vacation in Italy and will convene a meeting of the government's crisis committee on Tuesday to toughen the response to the violence.
In the Hackney area of east London, hundreds of youths attacked shops and set fire to cars, leaving a trail of burning trash and shattered glass. Looters ducked into a small convenience store as the blackened husks of two cars burned low nearby, filling plastic shopping bags with alcohol, cigarettes, candy and toilet paper.
"This is the uprising of the working class, we're redistributing the wealth," said Bryn Phillips, a 28-year-old self-described anarchist, as young people emerged from the store with chocolate bars and ice cream cones.
Phillips claimed rioters were motivated by distrust of the police, and drew a link between the rage on London's street and insurgent right-wing politics in the United States. "In America you have the tea party, in England you've got this," he said.
Police acknowledged Tuesday that major new bouts of violence had flared in at least five locations, badly stretching their resources. Many more neighborhoods saw mobs vandalize commercial streets or break into buildings — some acting with virtual impunity, as authorities struggled to deploy officers to the every scene of unrest .
"The violence we have seen is simply inexcusable. Ordinary people have had their lives turned upside down by this mindless thuggery," police commander Christine Jones said, as she confirmed that 225 people had been arrested and 36 people charged with offenses so far.
Violence broke out late Saturday in London's northern Tottenham district when peaceful protest over the fatal police shooting of Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old father of four who was gunned down in disputed circumstances Thursday, turned violent. Two police cars and a double-decker bus were set alight, stores were looted and several buildings along Tottenham's main street — five miles (eight kilometers) from the site of the 2012 Olympics — were reduced to smoldering shells.
Though the unrest escalated through Sunday as disorder spread among neighboring areas, the crisis worsened Monday — as violence touched areas in the east and south of London previously untroubled by the chaos, leaving young thugs free to set fires and steal from high street stores.
"There is significant disorder breaking out in a number of our communities across London," Tim Godwin, the acting London police commissioner said Monday, acknowledging that 1,700 extra officers had been deployed across London, but were struggling to halt the unrest.
Some residents called for police to deploy water cannons to disperse rioters, or call on the military for support.
About a hundred young people clashed early Tuesday with police in the Camden and Chalk Farm areas of north London, while others tore through a department store in the busy south London suburb of Clapham.
The small groups of youths — most with their heads and faces covered — used SMS messages, instant messaging on BlackBerry cell phones and social media such as Twitter to coordinate their attacks and outwit the police.
Once the preserve of businesspeople, BlackBerry handsets are popular with teenagers, thanks to their free, fast instant messaging system. Blackberry's manufacturer, Research in Motion, said in a statement that they were assisting authorities in their investigation and "feel for those impacted by the riots in London."
Police were also monitoring Twitter, and warned that those who posted messages inciting the violence could face arrest.
In the Peckham district of south London, where a building was set ablaze along with a bus — which was not carrying passengers — onlookers said the scene resembled a conflict zone. Cars were torched in nearby Lewisham, and shops looted in south London's Clapham district.
"There's been tension for a long time. The kids aren't happy. They hate the police," said Matthew Yeoland, a 43-year-old teacher watching the unrest in Peckham. "It's like a war zone and the police weren't doing anything. There were too many people and not enough police."
Duggan's death last Thursday stirred old animosities despite efforts by London police to build better relations with the city's ethnic communities after high profile cases of racism in recent decades.
Police say Duggan was shot dead when police from Operation Trident — the unit that investigates gun crime in the black community — stopped a cab he was riding in.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the shooting, said a "non-police firearm" was recovered at the scene, and media reports said a bullet had been found in an officer's radio.
However, the Guardian newspaper reported that the bullet in the radio was police-issue, indicating Duggan may not have fired at the officer.
Duggan's partner, Semone Wilson, insisted Monday that her fiance was not connected to gang violence and urged police to offer more information about his death. But she said the riots appeared to be no longer linked to the initial protests. "It got out of hand. It's not connected to this any more. This is out of control," she said.
Many Tottenham residents claimed that the looting was the work of greedy youths — rather than fueled by anti-police sentiments.
"It's nothing to do with the man who was shot, is it?" said 37-year-old Marcia Simmons, who has lived in the diverse and gritty north London neighborhood all her life. "A lot of youths ... heard there was a protest and joined in. Others used it as an opportunity to kit themselves out, didn't they, with shoes and T-shirts and everything."
As the unrest spread, some pointed to rising social tensions in Britain as the government slashes 80 billion pounds ($130 billion) from public spending by 2015 to reduce the huge deficit, swollen after the country spent billions bailing out its foundering banks.
The past year has seen mass protests against the tripling of student tuition fees and cuts to public sector pensions. In November, December and March, small groups broke away from large marches in London to loot. In the most notorious episode, rioters attacked a Rolls-Royce carrying Prince Charles and his wife Camilla to a charity concert.
However, the full impact of spending cuts has yet to be felt and the unemployment rate is stable — although it highest among youth, especially in areas like Tottenham, Hackney and Croydon.
Some locals insisted that joblessness was not to blame. "We are going to get people blaming the economy and what happened last week, but that's not the real reason this happened," said Brixton resident Marilyn Moseley, 49. "It's just an excuse for the young ones to come and rob shops."
Godwin urged communities to help clear the streets of people, and called on families to contact their children and ensure that they were not involved in the chaos.
Home Secretary Theresa May, the Cabinet minister responsible for policing, and London Mayor Boris Johnson also cut short summer vacations in an attempt to deal with the crisis.
May said 215 people had been arrested and 27 charged so far, including an 11-year-old boy accused of burglary. About 100 of those arrested were 21 or younger and 35 police officers had been injured in the violence, police said.
Police in the city of Birmingham, 120 miles (195 kilometers) north of London, confirmed that officers had arrested 35 people amid disorder across the city center, where shops were being vandalized.
In the south London neighborhood of Brixton — the scene of riots in the 1980s and 1990s — youths smashed windows, attacked a police car, set fire to garbage bins and stole video games, sportswear and other goods from stores on Sunday night.
Like Brixton, Tottenham is an impoverished area with an ethnically diverse population, a large black community and a history of unrest.
Tottenham was the site of the 1985 Broadwater Farm riots, a series of clashes that led to the fatal stabbing of a police officer and the wounding of nearly 60 others — and underscored tensions between London police and the capital's black community.
For civic leaders and Olympic organizers, the violence was an unwelcome reminder of London's volatility, less than a year before the city hosts the 2012 Games.
West Ham, a football team in east London, confirmed it had canceled a match planned for Tuesday and said police had asked for "all major public events" to be postponed. However, the national Football Association insisted that a scheduled international friendly match between England and the Netherlands would go ahead at Wembley Stadium on Wednesday.
The International Olympic Committee said it had confidence in British authorities. "Security at the Olympic Games is a top priority for the IOC," spokesman Mark Adams said.
Well, hopefully more of this shit happens during the Olympics. It'd be the first time that something interesting happened at the Summer Olympics in years and years.
No kidding. I was too young to remember the Germans letting the Jews die.
Cameron and Boris Johnson's slow return to the country looks very bad, especially as Cameron could have come back earlier due to the Eurozone crisis.
Maybe in the morning we'll see troops on thes streets ? Might not be necessary for policing, but for PR and underlying the seriousness of the situation, might warrant it.
edit:
maybe the O.poster could change the title of the thread to reflect the greatly changed events ?
I found Phelps and Bolt's exploits in Beijing interesting enough.
BBC Report - "Police use armoured vehicles for the first time" - not sure what this actually means.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 08:49:51 PM
Cameron and Boris Johnson's slow return to the country looks very bad, especially as Cameron could have come back earlier due to the Eurozone crisis.
Because if only Cameron and Johnson were in country, they could easily stop the rioters. It's the 21st century, and the PM and Mayor can afford cellphones.
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 09:08:32 PM
BBC Report - "Police use armoured vehicles for the first time" - not sure what this actually means.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amnesty.ca%2Fsite_images%2Fmanaged%2FChina_Tiananmen_Tank_Man.jpg&hash=216955f357c8d7f20d386f86fee6126290aa92ae)
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 09:08:32 PM
BBC Report - "Police use armoured vehicles for the first time" - not sure what this actually means.
It means that they're violating the human rights of the chavs. Expect lawsuits to follow. Brussels will probably arrest Cameron as a war criminal.
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 09:12:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 08:49:51 PM
Cameron and Boris Johnson's slow return to the country looks very bad, especially as Cameron could have come back earlier due to the Eurozone crisis.
Because if only Cameron and Johnson were in country, they could easily stop the rioters. It's the 21st century, and the PM and Mayor can afford cellphones.
I'm talking about politics and how things look, Churchill could have run WW2 from a bunker in Wiltshire and never gone into London, but how would that have played ?
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2011, 09:12:43 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 08:49:51 PM
Cameron and Boris Johnson's slow return to the country looks very bad, especially as Cameron could have come back earlier due to the Eurozone crisis.
Because if only Cameron and Johnson were in country, they could easily stop the rioters. It's the 21st century, and the PM and Mayor can afford cellphones.
I'm talking about politics and how things look, Churchill could have run WW2 from a bunker in Wiltshire and never gone into London, but how would that have played ?
Well, people who are inclined to hate the Tories will hate them.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 05:48:41 PM
Supposedly, many of the shopkeepers were ex-ROK army.
ROK has universal conscription - every Korean guy has to serve ~2 years.
So probably most of the men there had training. :showoff:
Without wanting to sound too much of a smartass, there is needless police violence and there is what was happening last night.
Like it or not, the police is called law enforcement for a reason. They should not be above the law, but they should enforce their monopoly on violence in as a much determined fashion as possible.
It is the very basis of any state: only the state can use violence. When Turkish shopkeepers have to fight off looters on their own, your state failed there, on that little spot for that time.
Here's a live BBC feed that can be eyeballed from outside the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675
The "armored vehicles" looked remarkably like large Ford trucks (F-2or 350s with police lights and covered beds) in the relatively quick glance I got of them. They were driving them two or three abreast down the road (taking up the entire street) to scatter rioters, so that, naturally, caught my attention a lot more than the trucks themselves. They weren't "military" type APCs or anything like that though.
Edit: And just as I post it, it switches to "Live coverage continues shortly." Doh. They had gone to sports or something. Weather looks like it'll be nice today though heh. Okay it's back now.
I'm going to kick the next journalist who calls them anarchists in the bollocks. And every opportunist dubbed a "self-confessed anarchist".
QuoteTory MP for Enfield North Nick de Bois believes it's time to get tough. He tweets: Our capital has been trashed, it is spreading across UK. It's time for COBRA to authorise use of water cannon & army support if it continues
Sounds like my old man's had a word with the local MP.
QuoteBarney from the US writes: What do you expect to happen when you let the banks get away with ripping off trillions of dollars? Now they're cutting services for the poor and middle classes. You can't expect the poor to join hands and sing Kumbaya. Society is failing
One of the kids they interviewed from the hidden safety of his hoodie claimed it was all because they don't have a youth club to go to. Perhaps they could volunteer at an old folks' home. Big Society that, my friend.
One of the things that makes me angry (other than risking lives of civilians and police and the mindless destruction of already recession-hit businesses and families) is that we were determined not to let the terrorists win after the 7/7 bombings and previous IRA hits but days after the events entire town centres are still shut down. Everything in Enfield was closed since lunchtime, including the entire shopping centre and my gym, which isn't even in the town centre. Even in areas that haven't been hit so far, shops are shut and people are cancelling nights out because they don't know if they'll be able to get home.
QuoteThree people were arrested on Tuesday on suspicion of attempted murder after a police officer was injured by a car in Brent, north west London, while trying to stop suspected looters.
And this terrifies me. We don't need another Broadwater Farm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm_riot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm_riot)
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 04:24:57 PM
QuotePanic on the streets of London
<snip>
:cool:
Your choice of an anti Royalist rant by a racist, militantly vegetarian nutter is inappropriate and distasteful. You need to look back to the late 70s and 80s riots for a sound track for disaffected youth. Try Babylon's Burning by the Ruts or Ghost Town by The Specials.
There are no protests songs any more - Cher Lloyd, JLS and The Wanted are the top 3 FFS. There may be youth messages in rap, but neither helpful or as widely listened to as people would have you believe.
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 01:48:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 04:24:57 PM
Panic on the streets of London
<snip>
:cool:
Your choice of an anti Royalist rant by a racist, militantly vegetarian nutter is inappropriate and distasteful. You need to look back to the late 70s and 80s riots for a sound track for disaffected youth. Try Babylon's Burning by the Ruts or Ghost Town by The Specials.
There are no protests songs any more - Cher Lloyd, JLS and The Wanted are the top 3 FFS. There may be youth messages in rap, but neither helpful or as widely listened to as people would have you believe.
What about Guns of Brixton? That's a classic.
Quote from: Barrister on August 08, 2011, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
No. Not at all.
But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
:D What are you talking about?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 06:43:11 PM
Quote22.50 Earlier tonight Turkish and Kurdish shopowners in the Stoke Newington area of North London were guarding their premises with baseball bats. There are reports now of "hundreds" of young turkish men chasing a group of young black men down nearby Kingsland Road, Hackney.
1) Turks are cool.
2) Where is the fuck do brits get baseball bats from? You'd think that would be fairly rare.
3) Are they wood or aluminum bats?
I have a strong suspicion that they are the kind of bats you couldn't play baseball with. They used to sell them a lot in Poland in the 1990s when crime was much more rife. People who never played baseball would carry one under their driver's seat. They are very good at smashing faces.
One would think that baseball bats which can break in skulls can also hit a ball.
OMG a thread of mine has been: stickied
Well it did come back to Enfield last night. They burned down a Sony Warehouse. Probably because they found it only stored games, CDs and DVDs, not TVs. No Playstation games for months, silly homies.
OK, they got Playstations too. Didn't see the coverage last night, hell of a blaze.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK5ecuxXyYM&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK5ecuxXyYM&feature=player_embedded)
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2011, 06:43:11 PM2) Where is the fuck do brits get baseball bats from? You'd think that would be fairly rare.
They probably call them rounders bats. :P
Listen to this lady. She knows what it's all about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYKKt2vCqLQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYKKt2vCqLQ)
We were discussing at work when it's likely to stop. The consensus was "When the schools go back," sadly.
Edit: or when it rains.
The England friendly against Holland at Wembley tomorrow has been called off. Doesn't bode well for the Olympics next year.
Well, all of them could furnish their home fully, then just stop?
Someone asked earlier whether homes were being hit. Yes, people live above all the shops that have been set alight.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg6.imageshack.us%2Fimg6%2F162%2F120704050.jpg&hash=2897f29d6c94255fd60b71a38a346e777ce20bd2) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/120704050.jpg/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg844.imageshack.us%2Fimg844%2F5936%2F5416449600x400.jpg&hash=6b2095606e2deb215b2b29066bbe8a3feede46aa) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/5416449600x400.jpg/)
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 01:48:16 AM
Your choice of an anti Royalist rant by a racist, militantly vegetarian nutter is inappropriate and distasteful. You need to look back to the late 70s and 80s riots for a sound track for disaffected youth. Try Babylon's Burning by the Ruts or Ghost Town by The Specials.
There are no protests songs any more - Cher Lloyd, JLS and The Wanted are the top 3 FFS. There may be youth messages in rap, but neither helpful or as widely listened to as people would have you believe.
I was just following a Brit friend of mine who thought the song appropriate, considering the riots were spreading to Birmingham. I also thought you were a The Smiths' fan. I've never heard of the other bands you mention. :huh:
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 03:57:19 AM
We were discussing at work when it's likely to stop. The consensus was "When the schools go back," sadly.
Edit: or when it rains.
Do these people even go to schools?
First I heard of this was this morning. Strange times.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 05:00:51 AM
I was just following a Brit friend of mine who thought the song appropriate, considering the riots were spreading to Birmingham. I also thought you were a The Smiths' fan. I've never heard of the other bands you mention. :huh:
I was a Smiths fan back in the 80s but I can't stomach Morrissey's EDF-friendly anti-immigration rants, especially now he refuses to live in Britain because of an "immigration explosion".
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 05:20:32 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 05:00:51 AM
I was just following a Brit friend of mine who thought the song appropriate, considering the riots were spreading to Birmingham. I also thought you were a The Smiths' fan. I've never heard of the other bands you mention. :huh:
I was a Smiths fan back in the 80s but I can't stomach Morrissey's EDF-friendly anti-immigration rants, especially now he refuses to live in Britain because of an "immigration explosion".
Right. You told me to start listening to The Smiths so now it's your fault when I quote them. :P
You can't make this shit up.
QuoteIran urges UK to restrain police
Iran has called on the British police to exercise restraint against people protesting over the killing of a Black man in London.
Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast urged the British government to order the police to stop their violent confrontation with the people, IRNA reported in the early hours of Tuesday.
Mehmanparast asked the British government to start dialogue with the protesters and to listen to their demands in order to calm the situation down.
The Iranian official also asked independent human rights organizations to investigate the killing in order to protect the civil rights and civil liberties.
The unrest began on Saturday when a few hundred people gathered outside a police station in Tottenham to protest against the fatal shooting of Mark Duggan on Thursday.
The protesters also set a bus and buildings on fire on High Road and broke many shop windows.
Turmoil is now threatening to sweep across all of Britain as the unfolding mayhem and looting has also raged the central city of Birmingham, the western city of Bristol, the northwestern city of Liverpool, and south London neighborhood of Brixton.
Turmoil is now threatening to sweep across all of Britain as the mayhem and looting has also spread to the central city of Birmingham, the western city of Bristol, the northwestern city of Liverpool, and south London neighborhood of Brixton.
Police said they have arrested more than 200 people since the unrest began.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/193030.html (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/193030.html)
:lmfao:
:lmfao:
Ironic people should be discussing protest music in this thread, when it transpires that the fire at the Sony depot took out a large chunk of the British independent record labels stock:
Quote
The UK's independent music scene has been rocked by the destruction of a warehouse in Enfield which contained stock from many British labels.
Sony Digital Audio Disc Corporation (DADC) in Enfield held stock from distributor PIAS, which licenses and distributes music from around 165 of Britain's independent labels, including Rough Trade, Beggars, Ninja Tune, Domino and Warp. The full list can be found on the Drowned in Sound message boards, but covers almost every important record label in the country.
....
rest of article here:
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-08/09/indie-labels-warehouse (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-08/09/indie-labels-warehouse)
Clearly then this is proof this was the work of charvas and not studenty anarchist sorts.
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 01:33:27 AM
One of the kids they interviewed from the hidden safety of his hoodie claimed it was all because they don't have a youth club to go to. Perhaps they could volunteer at an old folks' home. Big Society that, my friend.
:lol:
Is Labour coaching the kids or something?
Just saw on BBC (don't tell my boss) this video of a young (I think colored, but whatever) kid sitting beside of a bridge or something, clearly injured/hurt, with a bunch of hoodies around him. One of them helped him up, helped him stand, looked like he asked how he was.
All the while his buddy opened the backpack on the back of this kid and looted it calmly, then they left.
fucking scum, get out the teargas and rubber bullets already.
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 07:02:37 AM
Just saw on BBC (don't tell my boss) this video of a young (I think colored, but whatever) kid sitting beside of a bridge or something, clearly injured/hurt, with a bunch of hoodies around him. One of them helped him up, helped him stand, looked like he asked how he was.
All the while his buddy opened the backpack on the back of this kid and looted it calmly, then they left.
fucking scum, get out the teargas and rubber bullets already.
I think he's Asian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo)
An interview with some of the Croydon looters. Enlightening isn't the word.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice (http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice)
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 07:16:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 07:02:37 AM
Just saw on BBC (don't tell my boss) this video of a young (I think colored, but whatever) kid sitting beside of a bridge or something, clearly injured/hurt, with a bunch of hoodies around him. One of them helped him up, helped him stand, looked like he asked how he was.
All the while his buddy opened the backpack on the back of this kid and looted it calmly, then they left.
fucking scum, get out the teargas and rubber bullets already.
I think he's Asian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo)
An interview with some of the Croydon looters. Enlightening isn't the word.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice (http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice)
:bleeding:
Unconfirmed, apparently there is the first fatality.
We should send our riot police. In 2006, they did not fuck around, and shot nazi thugs in the face with rubber-laden shotguns. :showoff:
I can't fully enjoy watching this riot on TV. A little voice pops up in my head and reminds me there are brits I know living in London.
Fucking conscience. :mad:
QuoteLondon riots: Man, 26, shot in Croydon dies in hospital
A 26-year-old man shot in a car during riots in Croydon has died in hospital.
The Metropolitan Police's Operation Trident began an investigation after the man was found with gunshot wounds in his car on Monday night.
Violence spread across Hackney, Peckham, Croydon, Ealing and to parts of east and north London on Monday.
There will be 16,000 police officers on the streets of London on Tuesday night, as the Met described Monday's rioting as "the worst" it has seen recently.
Up to 525 people were arrested and 100 charged over rioting and looting which began on Saturday in Tottenham.
The number of officers was increased by Prime Minister David Cameron after the third consecutive nights of riots in the capital.
The additional officers, including community support officers, have been made available since 12:00 BST on Tuesday until Wednesday morning.
The Met have also released 15 CCTV images showing looting in Croydon and Norwood Road.
The images will be put on Flickr, police said.
Ambulance crews attacked
The shot man was found in a car at about 21:15 BST in Warrington Road, Croydon junction with Dupass Hill, police said.
On Monday evening disorder began in Hackney and spread to Croydon, Clapham, Camden, Lewisham, Peckham, Newham, East Ham, Enfield, Woolwich, Ealing and Colliers Wood.
About 6,000 police officers were on duty, including officers from neighbouring forces.
Mr Godwin said: "The key bit for me is that it's a sad day for London; it's a sad event that we saw overnight.
"This is not just a game. This is criminality, this is burglary, this is violence, and we will pursue each and every one that has been involved in this.
"So stop it now, because we will be there tonight. This isn't spectator (sport)."
After chairing a Cobra meeting, Mr Cameron said: "We will do everything necessary to strengthen and assist those police forces that are meeting the disorder".
He also recalled Parliament for a day.
The Met and London Fire Brigade (LFB) said they had had their busiest night, with the Met taking 20,800 emergency calls overnight and LFB answering 2,169 calls since Monday evening.
London Ambulance Service said "missiles were thrown" at vehicles and crew members.
Earlier Kit Malthouse, deputy mayor for London, said police cells were full and 44 officers had been injured, four of whom suffered serious injuries.
The trouble began after police shot a man dead in Tottenham.
A peaceful protest in Tottenham on Saturday over the fatal shooting by police of Mark Duggan, 29, was followed by violence which spread into Sunday.
An inquest heard that Mr Duggan was shot dead by a single bullet wound to the chest.
Fucking animals.
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 07:16:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 07:02:37 AM
Just saw on BBC (don't tell my boss) this video of a young (I think colored, but whatever) kid sitting beside of a bridge or something, clearly injured/hurt, with a bunch of hoodies around him. One of them helped him up, helped him stand, looked like he asked how he was.
All the while his buddy opened the backpack on the back of this kid and looted it calmly, then they left.
fucking scum, get out the teargas and rubber bullets already.
I think he's Asian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo)
An interview with some of the Croydon looters. Enlightening isn't the word.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice (http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice)
Jesus. :bleeding:
A cleansing by fire will be the only way to sort this out.
Shit like this makes me move to BarristerBoy's camp when it comes to views on law enforcement.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 07:40:00 AM
I can't fully enjoy watching this riot on TV. A little voice pops up in my head and reminds me there are brits I know living in London.
Fucking conscience. :mad:
Yes, rather disturbing :(
On the bright side, whenever I see stories like these out of Britain, my racism is challenged to the point where I have to claw tooth and bleeding nail to maintain it. :D
The problem isn't the muds per se, it's just that they more frequently belong to the kind of culture which spawns this behaviour.
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 07:49:53 AM
On the bright side, whenever I see stories like these out of Britain, my racism is challenged to the point where I have to claw tooth and bleeding nail to maintain it. :D
The problem isn't the muds per se, it's just that they more frequently belong to the kind of culture which spawns this behaviour.
Hey Slarg, you might want to read about the mud childrens in Philly today. You might get a kick out of it.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 07:44:39 AM
Shit like this makes me move to BarristerBoy's camp when it comes to views on law enforcement.
Society should simply bend over and take it up the ass? OK.
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 07:49:53 AM
On the bright side, whenever I see stories like these out of Britain, my racism is challenged to the point where I have to claw tooth and bleeding nail to maintain it. :D
The problem isn't the muds per se, it's just that they more frequently belong to the kind of culture which spawns this behaviour.
See, this kind of thing meshes much better with my style of elitism/classism than your style of racism. Poland is as ethnically pure as they come, but it still has its fair share of human garbage (although our benevolent, moderately progressive, centre-right pro-EU government has nicely kept it largely under boot of our police so far). And yes, they fire rubber bullets and beat the living shit out of the rabble. And when they do, middle class Poles write petitions to the government to pardon the overly ethusiastic policemen who just happened to beat the living shit out of some local thug or something. :P
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 07:50:57 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 07:49:53 AM
On the bright side, whenever I see stories like these out of Britain, my racism is challenged to the point where I have to claw tooth and bleeding nail to maintain it. :D
The problem isn't the muds per se, it's just that they more frequently belong to the kind of culture which spawns this behaviour.
Hey Slarg, you might want to read about the mud childrens in Philly today. You might get a kick out of it.
Mayor
Nutter says it all.
You can't build a good foundation on crap like that. :D
But I presume you're talking about the Plastic Wrap Pranksters.
Yeah.
It is certainly what I would expect from those critters.
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 07:32:45 AM
We should send our riot police. In 2006, they did not fuck around, and shot nazi thugs in the face with rubber-laden shotguns. :showoff:
I bolded the relevant part for you.
If these were nazis, the british police would be using live ammo since day 1 and everyone would applaud.
But they're mostly darkies, so...
Anyway, Liberal Democracies are only good for two things:
1) Taxing law-abiding citizens,
2) Getting into debt.
So, they'll do the only thing they can: expect new taxes to be levied on the British population, followed by large handouts of all sorts to needy communities, so that they can buy the things they're stealing, thus avoiding the need to loot.
It's all about social justice, see?
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 09, 2011, 07:58:54 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 07:32:45 AM
We should send our riot police. In 2006, they did not fuck around, and shot nazi thugs in the face with rubber-laden shotguns. :showoff:
I bolded the relevant part for you.
If these were nazis, the british police would be using live ammo since day 1 and everyone would applaud.
But they're mostly darkies, so...
Anyway, Liberal Democracies are only good for two things:
1) Taxing law-abiding citizens,
2) Getting into debt.
So, they'll do the only thing they can: expect new taxes to be levied on the British population, followed by large handouts of all sorts to needy communities, so that they can buy the things they're stealing, thus avoiding the need to loot.
It's all about social justice, see?
I thought you were a leftie. What we are seeing is the end result of the glory of the welfare state. Bask in it.
Send in the Army and the Navy send in the rank and file.
See, this is where you get it wrong. Poland is technically a liberal democracy, too, but when the police shot a Nigerian immigrant last year, only about 30 rioters showed up and were promptly arrested by armed policemen with guns. :P
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 08:02:16 AM
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 09, 2011, 07:58:54 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 07:32:45 AM
We should send our riot police. In 2006, they did not fuck around, and shot nazi thugs in the face with rubber-laden shotguns. :showoff:
I bolded the relevant part for you.
If these were nazis, the british police would be using live ammo since day 1 and everyone would applaud.
But they're mostly darkies, so...
Anyway, Liberal Democracies are only good for two things:
1) Taxing law-abiding citizens,
2) Getting into debt.
So, they'll do the only thing they can: expect new taxes to be levied on the British population, followed by large handouts of all sorts to needy communities, so that they can buy the things they're stealing, thus avoiding the need to loot.
It's all about social justice, see?
I thought you were a leftie. What we are seeing is the end result of the glory of the welfare state. Bask in it.
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 07:29:56 AM
Unconfirmed, apparently there is the first fatality.
Confirmed. Someone used the cover of the riots to shoot someone else yesterday. He died today.
Back when I though Nick Clegg could save the world, he made this prediction about a Conservative government and austerity measures leading to riots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItK1izQIwo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItK1izQIwo)
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
Bull. Shit.
This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
Bull. Shit.
This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.
Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.
The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.
This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
Bull. Shit.
This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.
Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.
The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.
This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.
People haven't been mowed down in Sweden since the 30s (and before that it wasn't exactly common, a dozen people killed which caused such an outrage it still ripples 80 years later), but we still didn't see this kind of behaviour until the 90s.
But there was a threat of this and the sight of policemen in the streets, I presume.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
Bull. Shit.
This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.
Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.
The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.
This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.
Reminds me of the Vancouver Riot. There was no 'structural' reason for it at all - the rioters rioted because they could get away with it.
The main feature these days is social media, which makes it much easier to organize a critical mass of rioters.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:22:59 AM
But there was a threat of this and the sight of policemen in the streets, I presume.
You raise a fair point, but let us not forget the very recent example of Japan. When there is a natural or man-made disaster in most cultures, there is looting and whatnot. Yet Japanese remained orderly. There is culture involved.
You don't get poverty-driven riots organised over BBM.
As those chav girls said on the BBC interview, they did it to "show the rich and cops they can do what they want". "It's the government's fault. I dunno. The Conservatives or whatever."
What the UK desperately needs now is a tightening and expansion of surveillance measures.
Make a announcment the day before that anyone who shows up will be shot. Then mow 'em done. they've been forewarned.
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 09:40:52 AM
As those chav girls said on the BBC interview, they did it to "show the rich and cops they can do what they want". "It's the government's fault. I dunno. The Conservatives or whatever."
Wow she knew what political party was in power. Nice.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
My conclusion is derived from the fact that most of these rioters come from broken homes and have thus been brought up largely by the state. The state is a monolithic entity which is incapable of catering for the emotional needs of children. This is why state-led parenting is doomed to failure - it cannot satisfy the needs of children as well as a loving family can.
Of course, this isn't to say the state should have no role in raising children. Indeed I would say the state should be there to assist families where it is needed. However, the state shouldn't be encouraging dependency on itself as this will inevitably remove dependency on local communities, thereafter destroying the sense of belonging to a community. A lack of this sense of belonging makes it much easier to destroy the community you live in because you would not feel that you are doing yourself or your own any damage.
Furthermore, your conclusion that people behave this was "when they can" is absolute nonsense. People are not inherently rioters or anarchists. To make the excuse that they can't be helped from rioting as if it is the natural way of things is frankly absurd.
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
My conclusion is derived from the fact that most of these rioters come from broken homes and have thus been brought up largely by the state. The state is a monolithic entity which is incapable of catering for the emotional needs of children. This is why state-led parenting is doomed to failure - it cannot satisfy the needs of children as well as a loving family can.
Of course, this isn't to say the state should have no role in raising children. Indeed I would say the state should be there to assist families where it is needed. However, the state shouldn't be encouraging dependency on itself as this will inevitably remove dependency on local communities, thereafter destroying the sense of belonging to a community.
Furthermore, your conclusion that people behave this was "when they can" is absolute nonsense. People are not inherently rioters or anarchists. To make the excuse that they can't be helped from rioting as if it is the natural way of things is frankly absurd.
As I said before, bull shit.
Well I think you are both right. The vast majority of a population just wants to be left alone. The smaller minority of people have socio-pathic tendencies...which is why we tolerate cops going around eating donuts and roughing up jaywalkers.
Quote from: Syt on August 09, 2011, 09:47:53 AM
What the UK desperately needs now is a tightening and expansion of surveillance measures.
What they need are snipers on the rooftops. Can only been a question of time before some citizen takes to the roof with a hunting rifle and starts defending his property and/or local community...
We've been told we can go home early if there's likely to be trouble in our areas. If we knew where it was going to kick off we'd be telling the police! Sorry, da feds.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 10:02:36 AM
As I said before, bull shit.
Slargos said it, actually. But you are still wrong. People are not inherently inclined to riot.
Quote from: Brazen on August 09, 2011, 10:30:17 AM
We've been told we can go home early if there's likely to be trouble in our areas. If we knew where it was going to kick off we'd be telling the police! Sorry, da feds.
Our London office went home early today.
Quote from: garbon on August 09, 2011, 10:40:08 AM
Our London office went home early today.
I can't be arsed. But if the offy is shut so I can't get a bottle of red on my way home, then I'll be rioting!
Quote from: Malthus on August 09, 2011, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 08:23:14 AM
The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.
This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.
Bull. Shit.
This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.
Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.
The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.
This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.
Reminds me of the Vancouver Riot. There was no 'structural' reason for it at all - the rioters rioted because they could get away with it.
The main feature these days is social media, which makes it much easier to organize a critical mass of rioters.
I seriously doubt that wide scale rioting, murder and thievery is only curbed by the presence of an all-mighty police force.
Sure, there's wide-spread illegal hunting in rural parts of Sweden, but the last time there was a riot in ethnically homogenous parts is not in living memory and some of those places don't see a cop for months at a time.
Although to be honest, I guess it's possible to term the Ådalen Shootings a riot.
Slargos, as I said, Poland is as ethnically homogenous as they come, and still the "underclass" ocassionally riots (e.g. during football hooligan fights or "trade union" protests). That's when you whip up rubber bullets and water cannons and the rabble gets its come-uppance.
But then Poland is not a country for half-measures. When back in July football hooligans ravaged a stadium in one of the Polish cities and it was clear the football clubs can't be arsed to do anything about their riotous fans, the government shut down all stadiums in Poland for fans for 2 months (message to clubs: start cooperating in curbing hooligan violence or lose shitload of money) and dawn-raided homes of known "football fan" leaders with SWAT teams for questioning.
The government ratings went up immediately.
Edit: Of course both the leftist and the right wing opposition parties protested but who the fuck cares.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 11:06:22 AM
Slargos, as I said, Poland is as ethnically homogenous as they come, and still the "underclass" ocassionally riots (e.g. during football hooligan fights or "trade union" protests). That's when you whip up rubber bullets and water cannons and the rabble gets its come-uppance.
But then Poland is not a country for half-measures. When back in July football hooligans ravaged a stadium in one of the Polish cities and it was clear the football clubs can't be arsed to do anything about their riotous fans, the government shut down all stadiums in Poland for fans for 2 months (message to clubs: start cooperating in curbing hooligan violence or lose shitload of money) and dawn-raided homes of known "football fan" leaders with SWAT teams for questioning.
The government ratings went up immediately.
Edit: Of course both the leftist and the right wing opposition parties protested but who the fuck cares.
Actually, fair enough. If you define "riot" so loosely, then they're not exactly uncommon here either. I'm not comfortable with defining hooliga violence under the same terms as the London riots since the aims and methods of the involved are so different.
Bah. After a bit of research I can only conclude that I am wrong on several counts. :D
Still, it appears that most of the "riots" in Sweden during the 20th century have been demonstrations turned ugly, and fights with the police or ideological opposition.
No mention of this kind of wide-spread looting and destruction before the 90s.
Quote
Sales of baseball bats and self defense weapons are skyrocketing on Amazon.uk as riots in Britain continued yesterday for a third-straight night.
In the past 24 hours, sales of Aluminum baseball bats on the site have risen by 5,149% — and are even on sale.
Orders of Military Police Telescopic Tonfas are up over 5,000% as well, while wooden bats appear slightly less popular, but are still up 3,664%.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/sales-of-aluminum-bats-on-amazonuk-up-over-5000-as-riots-continue-2011-8#ixzz1UY6bBFlq
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 09, 2011, 11:22:03 AM
Quote
Sales of baseball bats and self defense weapons are skyrocketing on Amazon.uk as riots in Britain continued yesterday for a third-straight night.
In the past 24 hours, sales of Aluminum baseball bats on the site have risen by 5,149% — and are even on sale.
Orders of Military Police Telescopic Tonfas are up over 5,000% as well, while wooden bats appear slightly less popular, but are still up 3,664%.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/sales-of-aluminum-bats-on-amazonuk-up-over-5000-as-riots-continue-2011-8#ixzz1UY6bBFlq
Metal is good for better darky bashing.
I came out of another weekend long retreat only to find out there's been riots in London for 3 days now - spreading to other cities. This is reminiscent of what happened in France some years ago. So Brits - what's going on?
Are there Muslims involved again? Or is this just youthful exuberance?
G.
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 11:10:33 AM
Actually, fair enough. If you define "riot" so loosely, then they're not exactly uncommon here either. I'm not comfortable with defining hooliga violence under the same terms as the London riots since the aims and methods of the involved are so different.
As I said repeatedly, the situation in London did not start as a mass looting in several districts at once - it deteriorated to that state.
Quote from: Warspite on August 08, 2011, 05:48:52 PM
If this continues, I'm walking across the street to talk to the local business owners about setting up a civil defence unit.
Down in Dalston, the Turks took up kebab knives to defend their shops. Awesome.
My area too. The looters tried to attack a few shops on Whitechapel and got chased off by the East London Mosque's Ramadan prayers congregation :)
Lots of the shops are shuttered for the night now. The middle-aged men of the area are meeting at Mosques and trying to keep things safe/chase looters away. Having said all that my area is the sort that could get targeted (we've got a Curry's and a PC World). Hopefully it'll be quiet again tonight.
We need rain.
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
Shouldn't elitists be actually elite?
Bored kids that want free stuff. Also, some assholes are going come along soon and yell at you becasue we have a thread already. ignore them.
The infection seems to be spreading. Tell me, are those "looters" slow shufflers like in the Walking Dead series or runners like in 28 Days Later? :hmm:
Quote from: Legbiter on August 09, 2011, 11:35:17 AM
The infection seems to be spreading. Tell me, are those "looters" slow shufflers like in the Walking Dead series or runners like in 28 Days Later? :hmm:
Lolz, survivalists use the zombie term for mobs of looters.
Quote from: Grallon on August 09, 2011, 11:28:00 AMAre there Muslims involved again?
Yes. The congregation of my local Mosque chased off a group of rioters and protected several shops last night. Turkish and Kurdish businessmen did the same in Dalston :)
Meanwhile, mud and trashy young people in Philly are causing trouble. The mayor gives a sermon from the mount (literally) and imposes a curfew:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711
I used the mud terminology for you Slargos. :)
The arab summer is spreading to the west. We must shoot all young people. it's the only way to be sure.
Quote from: HVC on August 09, 2011, 11:39:46 AM
The arab summer is spreading to the west. We must shoot all young people. it's the only way to be sure.
:yes:
Young people suck.
Quote from: Legbiter on August 09, 2011, 11:35:17 AM
The infection seems to be spreading. Tell me, are those "looters" slow shufflers like in the Walking Dead series or runners like in 28 Days Later? :hmm:
The latter keeps coming to mind. Too bad-- would've been nice to visit there before the rage virus outbreak.
QuoteThe most helpful favourable review
23 of 26 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars Cuts looters off at the knees
This bat is perfectly weighted and will suit any UK shop-owner looking to protect their property.
Thanks to the ergonomic handle, one easy swing should be enough to shatter patellas, skulls or any other bone on your targeted looter. Personally, I would recommend also investing in some fingerless gloves for extra grip.
Published 25 minutes ago by Harry Fish
:lmfao:
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 09, 2011, 11:36:35 AM
Turkish and Kurdish businessmen did the same in Dalston :)
So the headline is: British youth protestors bring about Turko-Kurdish reconciliation :D
There are no "Kurds". There are Mountain Turks.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 09, 2011, 11:49:35 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 09, 2011, 11:36:35 AM
Turkish and Kurdish businessmen did the same in Dalston :)
So the headline is: British youth protestors bring about Turko-Kurdish reconciliation :D
This is europe we're talking about. "Violent muslim groups attack peaceful youth march" would be more likely :P
Quote from: HVC on August 09, 2011, 11:35:11 AM
Bored kids that want free stuff. Also, some assholes are going come along soon and yell at you becasue we have a thread already. ignore them.
I always do. But admit it, 'Britain is burning' is more catchy than whatever drivel they came up with.
G.
Britain is burning vs. Britain burns... :hmm:
Course we're all conditioned to ignore stickies so that didn't help matters.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 09, 2011, 12:03:59 PM
Britain is burning vs. Britain burns... :hmm:
Course we're all conditioned to ignore stickies so that didn't help matters.
Britain burns in parallel.
There is a thread already! :mad:
Nice one :lol:
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 12:06:33 PM
There is a thread already! :mad:
Yeah I finally saw it. Since when do we sticky day-to-day news threads? no wonder I didn't look up there. <_<
G.
I'm sure this has been posted but I like this woman's response a lot:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraphtv/8690275/London-riots-Woman-confronts-rioters-in-Hackney.html
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 11:38:47 AM
Meanwhile, mud and trashy young people in Philly are causing trouble. The mayor gives a sermon from the mount (literally) and imposes a curfew:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711 (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711)
I used the mud terminology for you Slargos. :)
How thoughtful. :wub:
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 09, 2011, 11:33:34 AM
My area too. The looters tried to attack a few shops on Whitechapel and got chased off by the East London Mosque's Ramadan prayers congregation :)
This is why Euros need to start returning to religious institutions. It helps you chase off rioters.
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2011, 01:19:04 PMThis is why Euros need to start returning to religious institutions. It helps you chase off rioters.
I think the real thing is that there's a community there. The Bengali and Somali people who live in this here properly live here, this is their home. I'm a student who aspires to move to an area with an artisanal butcher and independent bookshop. That's true of a lot of the people of my age and class (and often colour) in this area and others that have been affected - like parts of Hackney. It's too transitory a place to have community.
In fact I've been reading that recently the Somali community's been united by sharing resources to help with the famine (most Somalis in this area are from Somaliland which hasn't been so badly affected and, until now, each clan and sub-clan's tended to have their own institutions) and last night apparently Bengali and Somali worshippers and business owners came together to chase the looters away which was unusual. I mean it's an extreme form of social bonding but there's definitely such a thing as society here.
Quote from: Grallon on August 09, 2011, 01:01:50 PM
Since when do we sticky day-to-day news threads?
Fixed.
Somalis versus Chavs - a battle only Slargos will win. :P
Quote from: Malthus on August 09, 2011, 01:42:13 PM
Somalis versus Chavs - a battle only Slargos will win. :P
Popping corn as we speak. :yeah:
Quote from: derspiess on August 09, 2011, 11:44:34 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on August 09, 2011, 11:35:17 AM
The infection seems to be spreading. Tell me, are those "looters" slow shufflers like in the Walking Dead series or runners like in 28 Days Later? :hmm:
The latter keeps coming to mind. Too bad-- would've been nice to visit there before the rage virus outbreak.
And duh-- the song "Fearful" by the Specials (on Guilty 'Til Proven Innocent) seems quite appropriate.
Quote
Come let me tell you about the shotguns of Hillfields
Let me tell you about the stenguns of Knightsbridge
Let me tell you about the Moss Side barretta
Let me tell you about the windows of my house
I'm not afraid of being afraid, I'm only fearful
I'm not afraid of being afraid, I'm only fearful
Let me tell you about the bombs in the Arndale
Let me tell you about the Welling election
Let me tell you about the black church burning
Let me tell you about the bat by my front door
I'm not afraid of being afraid, I'm only fearful
I'm not afraid of being afraid, I'm only fearful
Don't talk to strangers
Bolt your front door, don't make eye contact
Buy a crook lock, wear your flak vest to the supermarket
It makes me shudder when I read the newspaper
Have a career, learn to breed paranoia
Me keep a watching on the rear view mirror
Me no tell you where I keep my revolver
Come let me tell you about the security systems
Let me tell you about the video surveillance
Let me tell you about my new rotweiller
Welcome to the siege mentality
I'm not afraid of being afraid, I'm only fearful...
Fearful, fearful, fearful
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
Shouldn't elitists be actually elite?
We are elite in Poland and Portugal, respectively. :P
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 02:17:41 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
Shouldn't elitists be actually elite?
We are elite in Poland and Portugal, respectively. :P
How many ambassadors have you dined with? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 09, 2011, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2011, 01:19:04 PMThis is why Euros need to start returning to religious institutions. It helps you chase off rioters.
I think the real thing is that there's a community there. The Bengali and Somali people who live in this here properly live here, this is their home. I'm a student who aspires to move to an area with an artisanal butcher and independent bookshop. That's true of a lot of the people of my age and class (and often colour) in this area and others that have been affected - like parts of Hackney. It's too transitory a place to have community.
In fact I've been reading that recently the Somali community's been united by sharing resources to help with the famine (most Somalis in this area are from Somaliland which hasn't been so badly affected and, until now, each clan and sub-clan's tended to have their own institutions) and last night apparently Bengali and Somali worshippers and business owners came together to chase the looters away which was unusual. I mean it's an extreme form of social bonding but there's definitely such a thing as society here.
I was thinking earlier today that I can't recall any riots ever taking place (in my lifetime that is) in Newcastle :hmm:
Which in some ways is weird; people from that part of the country are a fairly belligerent bunch and the area's industries have been hit time and time again over the past century. It is the poorest part of England by some margin.
However, even a chippy semi-criminal from Byker is proud of his city. These are long-established communities (genuine ones, the term is regularly misused nowadays), this doesn't stop your regular criminality and pub brawls....a cynic might ask that if they had a riot on saturday night in Newcastle how could anyone tell...but seems to have a dampening effect on any temptation to riot.
(This post is a hostage to fortune, I hope that there isn't such a thing as as "Hakluyt taint", otherwise the worthy citizens of Newcastle are in for a rough night :huh: )
Quote#Enfield: 100 white men, 30s-40s, sprinting along Hertford Rd. Shouts of "Get the Pakis."
less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply
Paul Lewis
PaulLewis
Quote#Enfield Hertford Rd witness: "They're just blokes from the pub chasing a way the black kids that been causing the trouble."
less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply
Paul Lewis
PaulLewis
:)
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 02:38:02 PM
How many ambassadors have you dined with? :rolleyes:
He doesn't have time for ambassadors, Marti hob knobs with all those movers and shakers.
Of course he does, don't all gays hang out with professional dancers?
Is Cameron Cobra Commander?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 11:38:47 AM
Meanwhile, mud and trashy young people in Philly are causing trouble. The mayor gives a sermon from the mount (literally) and imposes a curfew:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711 (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711)
I used the mud terminology for you Slargos. :)
All is calm in Cincy... though I should probably stop putting off that CCW training :hmm:
Tell me something:
BBC News is just doing a summary on Internet videos and photos. When pics of bums posing with loot is shown, their faces is heavily blurred out. When the picture of the Turks standing guard is shown, their face is right fucking there to see and identify.
Really? fo' real? Still the criminals have more personal rights?
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Tell me something:
BBC News is just doing a summary on Internet videos and photos. When pics of bums posing with loot is shown, their faces is heavily blurred out. When the picture of the Turks standing guard is shown, their face is right fucking there to see and identify.
Really? fo' real? Still the criminals have more personal rights?
You're innocent until found guilty in a court of law. Unless the crime is innocence.
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Tell me something:
BBC News is just doing a summary on Internet videos and photos. When pics of bums posing with loot is shown, their faces is heavily blurred out. When the picture of the Turks standing guard is shown, their face is right fucking there to see and identify.
Really? fo' real? Still the criminals have more personal rights?
Showing pictures of pakis as law-abiding citizens standing up to criminals supports the multicultural narrative. It's that simple.
I can't get over "the feds" btw. That's worse than losing India.
A highly centralised state, but one of the few things that is still very decentralised are the various police forces :D
Incidentally, it is "da feds" not the "the feds" :huh:
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 02:38:02 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 02:17:41 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
Shouldn't elitists be actually elite?
We are elite in Poland and Portugal, respectively. :P
How many ambassadors have you dined with? :rolleyes:
Actually, during the 2009/2010 New Year's Eve party the now-vice-ambassador of a major European country to Poland danced to Lady Gaga and drank pink champagne (along with other gays and fag hags) in my apartment in Warsaw, if that counts. :unsure:
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 11:38:47 AM
Meanwhile, mud and trashy young people in Philly are causing trouble. The mayor gives a sermon from the mount (literally) and imposes a curfew:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711 (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/nutter-strongly-condemns-mob-attacks080711)
I used the mud terminology for you Slargos. :)
How thoughtful. :wub:
It shows that I'm just not a meanie. :)
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 02:38:02 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 02:17:41 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
Shouldn't elitists be actually elite?
We are elite in Poland and Portugal, respectively. :P
How many ambassadors have you dined with? :rolleyes:
Actually, during the 2009/2010 New Year's Eve party the now-vice-ambassador of a major European country to Poland danced to Lady Gaga and drank pink champagne (along with other gays and fag hags) in my apartment in Warsaw, if that counts. :unsure:
I shook Dan Quayle's hand back in the day. Me > You.
I also met Sarah Palin but let's not mention that, as I really didn't want to be there but work forced me too.
Quotenottspolice Canning Circus Police Station fire bombed by a group of 30-40 males. No reports of injuries at this stage. A number of men arrested. Fire service at scene
Fire at Canning Circus Police Station is extinguished, scene being preserved for forensic evidence. At least 8 arrested
Dr. Alban was my neighbor. I WIN
I met the premier of Yukon while in Keno and talked about the Winnipeg Jets. Turns out he's an ex-pay Winnipegger as well. :showoff:
Quote from: Barrister on August 09, 2011, 04:49:00 PM
I met the premier of Yukon while in Keno and talked about the Winnipeg Jets. Turns out he's an ex-pay Winnipegger as well. :showoff:
They pay people to be Winnipeggers?
That figures. :hmm:
:D
Why is it that whenever I respond to someone's question about my personal life, everyone suddenly has to compare dicks?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 04:32:49 PM
I shook Dan Quayle's hand back in the day. Me > You.
I also met Sarah Palin but let's not mention that, as I really didn't want to be there but work forced me too.
I can beat that, I met
Dukakis.
You know, this is the sort of situation that could really use Captain Britain.
I met James Doohan "Scotty" and Kurt Vonnegut.
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 05:27:39 PM
You know, this is the sort of situation that could really use Captain Britain.
With his well-inked quill to write a lot of nasty letters? :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: Slargos on August 09, 2011, 02:38:02 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 02:17:41 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 09, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
I don't think he is a leftie. He is a bit like me - an elitist.
Shouldn't elitists be actually elite?
We are elite in Poland and Portugal, respectively. :P
How many ambassadors have you dined with? :rolleyes:
Actually, during the 2009/2010 New Year's Eve party the now-vice-ambassador of a major European country to Poland danced to Lady Gaga and drank pink champagne (along with other gays and fag hags) in my apartment in Warsaw, if that counts. :unsure:
Oh I know him, isn't he Martim Silva's mate ?
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 09, 2011, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 05:27:39 PM
You know, this is the sort of situation that could really use Captain Britain.
With his well-inked quill to write a lot of nasty letters? :huh:
Indeed.
I wonder if the Brits are just going to admit their military is incapable of taking care of this and ask the US to intervene.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
I wonder if the Brits are just going to admit their military is incapable of taking care of this and ask the US to intervene.
We could, :cough: Paras :cough: but most Americans*, especially CdM would get their knickers in a twist.
*Ed Anger an honourable exception.
edit:
I would post a photo of Paras doing internal security in N.I, but unfortunately most on the web seem to be of Bloody Sunday. :(
I used to work with two ex-Paras, top blokes.
Quote from: mongers on August 09, 2011, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
I wonder if the Brits are just going to admit their military is incapable of taking care of this and ask the US to intervene.
We could, :cough: Paras :cough: but most Americans*, especially CdM would get their knickers in a twist.
*Ed Anger an honourable exception.
If they're good enough for Belfast then should be good enough for Tottenham.
Quote from: citizen k on August 09, 2011, 06:15:55 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 09, 2011, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
I wonder if the Brits are just going to admit their military is incapable of taking care of this and ask the US to intervene.
We could, :cough: Paras :cough: but most Americans*, especially CdM would get their knickers in a twist.
*Ed Anger an honourable exception.
If they're good enough for Belfast then should be good enough for Tottenham.
They weren't good enough for Basra.
Quote from: mongers on August 09, 2011, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
I wonder if the Brits are just going to admit their military is incapable of taking care of this and ask the US to intervene.
We could, :cough: Paras :cough: but most Americans*, especially CdM would get their knickers in a twist.
*Ed Anger an honourable exception.
edit:
I would post a photo of Paras doing internal security in N.I, but unfortunately most on the web seem to be of Bloody Sunday. :(
I used to work with two ex-Paras, top blokes.
I bet Seedy would love to see MAricans knocking heads. I know I'd love to see an MP battalion with non-lethal deterrents fucking up your Chavs. :bowler:
ACTIVATE HEAT RAY AND SONIC WEAPONS!
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
I bet Seedy would love to see MAricans knocking heads. I know I'd love to see an MP battalion with non-lethal deterrents fucking up your Chavs. :bowler:
Faggot.
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
I bet Seedy would love to see MAricans knocking heads. I know I'd love to see an MP battalion with non-lethal deterrents fucking up your Chavs. :bowler:
Faggot.
I've got to take Brits pussy culture into account.
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 08, 2011, 07:51:23 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 07:33:01 PM
This looks more like Generation Playstation tries to emulate the Luftwaffe.
In your opinion, what is worse for London:
a) a Luftwaffe raid,
or
b) a nigga with a Blackberry
Whichever one the RAF won't shoot at.
:)
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 04:32:49 PM
I shook Dan Quayle's hand back in the day. Me > You.
I also met Sarah Palin but let's not mention that, as I really didn't want to be there but work forced me too.
I can beat that, I met Dukakis.
I went to college with a guy who went on to play more than a dozen years in the NBA.
You guys should be able to figure out who, if I haven't already mentioned this before.
In middle school I got beaten up by a guy who is now playing for the Tennessee Titans.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.backupot.com%2FSmileys%2Fclassic%2F39.gif&hash=41060136bc3114d417df7d35575234752e82a1fd)
I think the best I can do is that an old friend of mine is Bill Paxton's, the actor, cousin and he brought him the house by one afternoon back in '91 or '92. At that point he was just Chet from Weird Science because that was the only thing he had done by then, he did pretty well for himself starting not long after that.
David Owen was a professor of mine. He's not for-real famous, but they pay him enough you'd think he was. Also, one time I could've thrown my shoe at Chief Justice Toal, but would probably have missed because she's woozy on account of all the drinking.
That's all I've got.
Edit: oh wait, and I know Edward Said's kid too. He sounds like he's doing a Jeff Goldblum impression all the time. Nice guy, though.
Zoupa's celebrity encounter is my favorite. He met Katsumi once. :wub:
You meet all sorts of politicians here in Jefferson City. A former Governor once came over to my house to help his girlfriend babysit me. He was still in high school at the time. Terrible Gov as well. So bad he didn't even try to run for a second term.
Aliens was in 1986. Bill Paxton was awesome forever after that.
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 08:28:16 PM
Aliens was in 1986. Bill Paxton was awesome forever after that.
He played... that jittery, cowardly marine yes? The one Rippley continuously grabbed back into reality. The one Vasquez wondered if he'd ever been mistaken for a man?
Strangely enough I remember it for the treasure hunter in Titanic.
G.
Best one I've got is that Clarence Clemens had a beachfront condo down the street from my great-grandmother's and showed up at a big Christmas party.
I've also got James Doohan and Michael Dorn stories, but those depend on whether convention meets count.
Quote from: Grallon on August 09, 2011, 08:37:40 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 09, 2011, 08:28:16 PM
Aliens was in 1986. Bill Paxton was awesome forever after that.
He played... that jittery, cowardly marine yes? The one Rippley continuously grabbed back into reality. The one Vasquez wondered if he'd ever been mistaken for a man?
Strangely enough I remember it for the treasure hunter in Titanic.
I prefer to remember him as the one that was hyper-brave on the drop ship.
"We got nukes, knives, sharp sticks..."
I got your Captain Britain reference, Neil. These guys are culturally illiterate.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 09, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
I got your Captain Britain reference, Neil. These guys are culturally illiterate.
Well, sure, some of us
have read
Excalibur, but would Claremont have
really gotten the quality threadjacking we just got? :P
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 09, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
I got your Captain Britain reference, Neil. These guys are culturally illiterate.
Well, sure, some of us have read Excalibur, but would Claremont have really gotten the quality threadjacking we just got? :P
Chris Claremont's belief that you can recite the Iliad while punching someone in the face is arguably more amusing than Benny Hill.
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
So, how's London today?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 04:32:49 PM
I also met Sarah Palin but let's not mention that, as I really didn't want to be there but work forced me too.
:rolleyes:
Pfft.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 09, 2011, 08:25:12 PM
David Owen was a professor of mine. He's not for-real famous, but they pay him enough you'd think he was. Also, one time I could've thrown my shoe at Chief Justice Toal, but would probably have missed because she's woozy on account of all the drinking.
That's all I've got.
Edit: oh wait, and I know Edward Said's kid too. He sounds like he's doing a Jeff Goldblum impression all the time. Nice guy, though.
Zoupa's celebrity encounter is my favorite. He met Katsumi once. :wub:
I had lunch with Michelle Yeoh. She's really nice.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2011, 12:20:23 AM
So, how's London today?
It's a new day.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_qkPve3GiCmY%2FSzewKz5dmLI%2FAAAAAAAABI0%2FlyW0WMc5USg%2F2-london-blitz%255B3%255D.jpg&hash=d0971f8ac1b14954bf9fdd32306ecfce6323f2bb)
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2011, 12:20:23 AM
So, how's London today?
Back to normal, though all the shops closed early yesterday as did my gym. When they take away my treadmill the terrorists have won! We exported the unrest to Manchester and the Midlands last night, but they're lightweights. I expect some minor looting at the weekend, then it'll be all but over. Hope it rains.
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2011, 02:39:09 PM
Quote#Enfield: 100 white men, 30s-40s, sprinting along Hertford Rd. Shouts of "Get the Pakis."
less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply
Paul Lewis
PaulLewis
Quote#Enfield Hertford Rd witness: "They're just blokes from the pub chasing a way the black kids that been causing the trouble."
less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply
Paul Lewis
PaulLewis
:)
Paul Lewis got a lot of work out of the Enfield unrest. I have at times thought about contributing to the coverage, but I don't fancy the thought of a smack in the face and losing my phone.
So Enfield was "kept safe" last night by Millwall supporters and the EDL patrolling the streets. Between chanting "En-ger-land" and "BNP" they were heard to shout "We're chasing blacks!" Helpful.
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 04:38:11 AM
So Enfield was "kept safe" last night by Millwall supporters and the EDL patrolling the streets. Between chanting "En-ger-land" and "BNP" they were heard to shout "We're chasing blacks!" Helpful.
Sounds like Britain is turning into the set up for "V for Vendetta". Lovely.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:44:42 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 04:38:11 AM
So Enfield was "kept safe" last night by Millwall supporters and the EDL patrolling the streets. Between chanting "En-ger-land" and "BNP" they were heard to shout "We're chasing blacks!" Helpful.
Sounds like Britain is turning into the set up for "V like Vendetta". Lovely.
Sorry to break this to you but it's "Guy".
Quote from: The Brain on August 10, 2011, 04:45:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:44:42 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 04:38:11 AM
So Enfield was "kept safe" last night by Millwall supporters and the EDL patrolling the streets. Between chanting "En-ger-land" and "BNP" they were heard to shout "We're chasing blacks!" Helpful.
Sounds like Britain is turning into the set up for "V like Vendetta". Lovely.
Sorry to break this to you but it's "Guy".
Uh, what? :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:46:59 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 10, 2011, 04:45:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:44:42 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 04:38:11 AM
So Enfield was "kept safe" last night by Millwall supporters and the EDL patrolling the streets. Between chanting "En-ger-land" and "BNP" they were heard to shout "We're chasing blacks!" Helpful.
Sounds like Britain is turning into the set up for "V like Vendetta". Lovely.
Sorry to break this to you but it's "Guy".
Uh, what? :huh:
Your V for Vendetta fetish is based on a misunderstanding. It's not "Gay Fawkes".
:lol:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:44:42 AM
Sounds like Britain is turning into the set up for "V for Vendetta". Lovely.
V for Vendetta opens with Prothero concluding a TV speech with, "No one escapes their past. No one escapes Judgment. You think he's not up there? You think he's not watching over this country? How else can you explain it? He tested us, but we came through. We did what we had to do. Islington.
Enfield. I was there, I saw it all. Immigrants, Muslims, homosexuals, terrorists. Disease-ridden degenerates. They had to go. Strength through unity. Unity through faith. I'm a God-fearing Englishman and I'm goddamn proud of it!"
V artist David Lloyd was born here.
Turns out the report of racist chanting has been withdrawn and attributed to Eltham instead.
From Reuters:
QuoteSales of baseball bats and batons have shot up more than 5,000 percent in the last 24 hours on Amazon's British website, as London suffered its worst violent unrest in decades.
Seven of the top 10 'movers and shakers' in Amazon's sports and leisure list were baseball bats of various kinds, their sales since Monday rising between 1,756 percent and 5,149 percent.
A "military police telescopic baton," described by the manufacturer as useful for "effective self-defence with extra reach," was the 110th best selling item among Amazon's sports and leisure customers, up from a ranking of 5,622 just 24 hours ago. Actual sale number of the items are not given.
Many Londoners have questioned how rioters had been able to loot and ransack shops on Monday night with impunity, with the stretched police force criticised for its inability to cope and reluctance to use heavy tactics.
The Metropolitan police have vowed "robust" action which may include rubber bullets if disorder breaks out for a fourth day on Tuesday.
Amazon UK could not immediately be reached for comment.
Indeed, V for Vendetta is very much about modern England.
Don't worry Britons, Hulk Hogan will help you out.
QuoteHulk Hogan Talks London Riots on BBC Radio: "I'll Body Slam the Youth"
In a bizarre interview with BBC radio, one of the most unlikely American celebrities offered his take on the current upheaval — pro wrestler Hulk Hogan.
"Y'know, it doesn't really matter if Hulk Hogan's over there bodyslamming all the youth like I did Andre the Giant but, at the end of the day, we need to grab these kids, shake them, and say 'Stop! Regroup! Just look at yourself in the mirror," he said on Richard Bacon's BBC radio show this morning, via Mediaite. "Is this what you want the mirror image of your life to be? Is this what you want your destiny to be?"
Quote from: The Larch on August 10, 2011, 05:57:24 AM
we need to grab these kids, shake them
Mr Nanny? :ph34r:
He seems to have more ideas what to do than Britain's ruling class :hmm:
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 05:09:35 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:44:42 AM
Sounds like Britain is turning into the set up for "V for Vendetta". Lovely.
V for Vendetta opens with Prothero concluding a TV speech with, "No one escapes their past. No one escapes Judgment. You think he's not up there? You think he's not watching over this country? How else can you explain it? He tested us, but we came through. We did what we had to do. Islington. Enfield. I was there, I saw it all. Immigrants, Muslims, homosexuals, terrorists. Disease-ridden degenerates. They had to go. Strength through unity. Unity through faith. I'm a God-fearing Englishman and I'm goddamn proud of it!"
V artist David Lloyd was born here.
Turns out the report of racist chanting has been withdrawn and attributed to Eltham instead.
Yup, that's what I thought too. This could make people following the nasty types, like BNP.
I hope the situation in the UK calms down soon.
Btw, are these riots a normal thing in the UK, you more mature Britons? I heard the UK had riots in the past, during the Thacherite era for example, so maybe this is nothing new. :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 06:36:21 AM
Yup, that's what I thought too. This could make people following the nasty types, like BNP.
I hope the situation in the UK calms down soon.
Btw, are these riots a normal thing in the UK, you more mature Britons? I heard the UK had riots in the past, during the Thacherite era for example, so maybe this is nothing new. :huh:
While the normal english attitude is that riots are what happen when frenchmen sober up and realize they are not englishmen, the truth, is somewhat different...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixton_Riots
Not so much that they didn't happen, but rather the rather lengthy disambiguation list.
Quote from: The Larch on August 10, 2011, 05:57:24 AM
Don't worry Britons, Hulk Hogan will help you out.
QuoteHulk Hogan Talks London Riots on BBC Radio: "I'll Body Slam the Youth"
In a bizarre interview with BBC radio, one of the most unlikely American celebrities offered his take on the current upheaval — pro wrestler Hulk Hogan.
"Y'know, it doesn't really matter if Hulk Hogan's over there bodyslamming all the youth like I did Andre the Giant but, at the end of the day, we need to grab these kids, shake them, and say 'Stop! Regroup! Just look at yourself in the mirror," he said on Richard Bacon's BBC radio show this morning, via Mediaite. "Is this what you want the mirror image of your life to be? Is this what you want your destiny to be?"
Maybe it could have worked 15 years ago.
I doubt the kids these days have a clue who the hell he is :(
There seems to be quite a tradition of riots in England, yes:
Riots in England
Historical
1355 St Scholastica Day riot · Bawdy House Riots of 1668 · 1793–2011 Bristol riots · 1780 Gordon riots · Ely and Littleport riots 1816 · 1830 Swing riots · 1832 Days of May · 1838 Battle of Bossenden Wood · 1896 Newlyn riots · 1907 Brown Dog riots · 1919 Battle of Bow Street · 1958 Notting Hill race riots
1970s
1970 Garden House riot · 1971 Priestlley riots · 1975 Chapeltown race riot · 1977 Battle of Lewisham
1980s
1980 St. Pauls riot · 1981 England riots · 1981 Brixton riot · 1981 Chapeltown race riot · 1981 Toxteth riots · 1981 Moss Side riot · Handsworth race riots · 1985 Brixton riot · 1985 Broadwater Farm riot · 1987 Chapeltown race riot · 1989 Dewsbury race riot
1990s
1990 Strangeways Prison riot · 1990 Poll Tax riots · 1991 Meadow Well riots · 1995 Manningham riot · 1995 Brixton riot
2000s
2001 Bradford riots · 2001 England riots · 2001 Oldham race riots · 2001 Harehills riot · 2005 Birmingham race riots
2010s
2010 UK student protests · 2011 England riots
From wiki, make of that what you will.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 06:36:21 AM
Btw, are these riots a normal thing in the UK, you more mature Britons? I heard the UK had riots in the past, during the Thacherite era for example, so maybe this is nothing new. :huh:
Within my memory in London alone:
1979 Southall
1981 Brixton
1985 Brixton
1985 Broadwater Farm (Tottenham)
1990 Poll tax riots
1995 Brixton
2010 Student protests
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 06:50:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 06:36:21 AM
Btw, are these riots a normal thing in the UK, you more mature Britons? I heard the UK had riots in the past, during the Thacherite era for example, so maybe this is nothing new. :huh:
Within my memory in London alone:
1979 Southall
1981 Brixton
1985 Brixton
1985 Broadwater Farm (Tottenham)
1990 Poll tax riots
1995 Brixton
2010 Student protests
Seems like London riots when tories are in power. :bowler:
Riots are a part of the British political system, a counterbalance to the overwhelming power of Parliament ;)
Now there are broadly three possible responses to the current riots; bribe the mob with more welfare goodies, do nothing, or crackdown on the subcultures which have produced this mob violence.
At a guess I would think that the third option has the support of an overwhelming majority, I'm therefore expecting a crackdown by vote-seeking politicians; a limp-wristed British crackdown :huh:
I'd like to see every looter with a V for Vendetta mask kicked in the face repeatedly. Awful movie. :yuk:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 06:53:52 AM
Seems like London riots when tories are in power. :bowler:
Yes, those on the left are much less capable of exercising any self-control. This is probably why they support nanny-statism.
Manchester cops give a bash to two Josqs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74BdPfSQ&feature=player_embedded
:bowler:
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 05:14:40 AM
From Reuters:
QuoteSales of baseball bats and batons have shot up more than 5,000 percent in the last 24 hours on Amazon's British website, as London suffered its worst violent unrest in decades.
Seven of the top 10 'movers and shakers' in Amazon's sports and leisure list were baseball bats of various kinds, their sales since Monday rising between 1,756 percent and 5,149 percent.
A "military police telescopic baton," described by the manufacturer as useful for "effective self-defence with extra reach," was the 110th best selling item among Amazon's sports and leisure customers, up from a ranking of 5,622 just 24 hours ago. Actual sale number of the items are not given.
Many Londoners have questioned how rioters had been able to loot and ransack shops on Monday night with impunity, with the stretched police force criticised for its inability to cope and reluctance to use heavy tactics.
The Metropolitan police have vowed "robust" action which may include rubber bullets if disorder breaks out for a fourth day on Tuesday.
Amazon UK could not immediately be reached for comment.
This makes me seriously lol
Typical bloody Cameron announcing water cannon would be available as a contingency measure just as I wrote an op ed on why non-lethal weapons would not be used :mad:
The 2010 Student Protests were not a riot.
Quote from: Warspite on August 10, 2011, 08:18:56 AM
The 2010 Student Protests were not a riot.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prospectmagazine.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2FMillbank_after_protest_vandalism.gif&hash=a27d5833c4ae468b1e9f6a9b3cb6124782e97cc6)
Incidentally, while I am far from interpreting the situation in Britain according to a leftist discourse, there is something to be said about the fact that for the last 20 years or so, Britain shifted to a model where a small number of elite earned huge amounts of cash in the high flying City-based economy, while the rest was kept docile by government handouts. Now, the money has run out and the morlocks are raising to eat the elois.
I believe I said the same thing about 3 months ago or so and predicted a massive revolt in Britain but was laughed at.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:45:31 AM
Incidentally, while I am far from interpreting the situation in Britain according to a leftist discourse, there is something to be said about the fact that for the last 20 years or so, Britain shifted to a model where a small number of elite earned huge amounts of cash in the high flying City-based economy, while the rest was kept docile by government handouts. Now, the money has run out and the morlocks are raising to eat the elois.
I believe I said the same thing about 3 months ago or so and predicted a massive revolt in Britain but was laughed at.
No that is not a leftist interpretation, that is a more or less correct assesment of the Europe-wide result of 3 or 4 decades of leftists policies.
Here're the posts I am talking about, from March:
QuoteIt seems to me that for the last 20 years or so, Britain has created a sort of unwritten socio-economic contract, in which the rich generated wealth by vacuuming world cash through financial markets and giving it out as welfare handouts to the underclass, to prevent unrest and keep the internal consumption going (the City high-fliers do not buy cheap plasmas, and after Mrs. Thatcher effectively shut down Britain's heavy industry and then the rest of manufacturing industry fled abroad, there is preciously little wealth generating jobs left in the UK). Essentially, the beautiful eloi (sp?) worked and shared their wealth with the ugly lazy and poor morlocks.
Now that this steady flow of money into the economy has stopped due to the financial markets' crisis and the eloi are closing down the gravy tap by the "necessary cuts" (it's funny how the lucky, privileged rich do not see they are effectively breaking that contract that allowed them to keep/attain their position, and instead see it as justice against the lazy welfare underclass), what is the chance of the morlocks rising up and eating them?
Discuss.
QuoteIt's actually interesting how in retrospect the German economy - for so many years called the "sick man of Europe" - proves to be the right model, based on domestic production (and hefty foreign trade surplus) coupled with some of the best social protections, ensuring solid redistribution of goods (not to mention making sure tax havens are not a valid option).
Compare this to the UK model, where the tory government hires, as its "fiscal responsibility expert", a guy who got rich on a store chain by avoiding paying taxes in the UK thanks to his Monaco-resident
QuoteIf you create an economy where more than 5-10% or so of the working age populace simply has no option for gainful employment, and then decide to cut welfare to the "lazy ones", you are on a straight way to social unrest.
Having a "slimmed down" economy, that is not weighed down by mass employment of the working class has its advantages but you need to address social costs (and share the wealth with those who are left out) rather than sneer at them from your City/White Hall ivory tower for being unable to find a job.
What Germany does best is that they seem to factor social costs (and social "welfare", not necessarily meaning hand outs but the well-being of the populace at large) into their economic model. You can't build an economy that simply treats employees as a "resource" that is subject to the same rules of supply and demand as raw materials or manufacturing equipment - because sooner or later you will have a revolution on your hands. I think Brits have forgotten about it.
http://languish.org/forums/index.php?topic=4722.0
I also recommend especially Berkut's and grumbler's posts in this thread, which call my prediction of social unrests in the UK as an evidence of me being an ignorant Pollack who has no idea about the real state of the European countries.
I feel vindicated. :cool:
It was not as spot-on as my heavily attacked predictions on Turkey, but still good enough in your leauge. ^_^
Assuming this "rebellion" is actually based on economic grievances rather than a subset of the population that simply thrives on violent parasitism, your analysis seems to hold water.
Of course, similar (although far from as wide-spread or violent) riots have been taking place the last decade in the immigrant suburbs in Sweden despite having a very solid social welfare system in place.
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 09:21:51 AM
Assuming this "rebellion" is actually based on economic grievances rather than a subset of the population that simply thrives on violent parasitism, your analysis seems to hold water.
Of course, similar (although far from as wide-spread or violent) riots have been taking place the last decade in the immigrant suburbs in Sweden despite having a very solid social welfare system in place.
You are missing the point. Britain has created a system in which a subset of the society is effectively composed of violent parasites, kept docile by government handouts. The system (tailor made to the high flying elite as opposed one that provides higher employment but at the cost of operating less profitable industries) created a class of people who have no option but to be parasites (whether this is because they objectively have no other option or the dependency created by the system makes it psychologically impossible for them to have other options is beyond the point).
Now, if you cut off the handouts, they will revolt - their "moral" right to do so has no bearing on the assessment of the situation.
Social welfare doesn't alter the basic inequality of human society.
To explain it in other terms, think of it as Civilization 4 set up.
Germany has a specialist based economy, with a lot of farms, mines and factories. In such economy you do not need to spend tax sliders on keeping the population happy, because you are achieving it through other means - buildings, specialists, wonders etc. However your economy is not as good in generating pure cash.
UK has a commerce based economy, with lots of huts and lots of "coins". In such economy, you have to spend some of the income on happiness because you just don't have enough output to have specialists and buildings keeping the populace happy.
If all huts are expanded to the max, then the UK-style economy is better - it has better income, better science, it can gold-rush buildings and maintain a bigger army than the Germany-style economy.
But if huts suddenly collapse (read: global financial crisis), the resources become scarce, while the German-style economy can carry on. If the UK-style economy then lowers happiness sliders to keep the country from going bankrupt, everyone goes into a revolt.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 10, 2011, 09:40:53 AM
Social welfare doesn't alter the basic inequality of human society.
Was this in response to my post? Because I fail to see any relevance.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 09:37:32 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 09:21:51 AM
Assuming this "rebellion" is actually based on economic grievances rather than a subset of the population that simply thrives on violent parasitism, your analysis seems to hold water.
Of course, similar (although far from as wide-spread or violent) riots have been taking place the last decade in the immigrant suburbs in Sweden despite having a very solid social welfare system in place.
You are missing the point. Britain has created a system in which a subset of the society is effectively composed of violent parasites, kept docile by government handouts. The system (tailor made to the high flying elite as opposed one that provides higher employment but at the cost of operating less profitable industries) created a class of people who have no option but to be parasites (whether this is because they objectively have no other option or the dependency created by the system makes it psychologically impossible for them to have other options is beyond the point).
Now, if you cut off the handouts, they will revolt - their "moral" right to do so has no bearing on the assessment of the situation.
I am proud of you. Yo are slowly working yourself out of your old socialist shell, and see the world as it truly is.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 09:44:35 AM
Was this in response to my post? Because I fail to see any relevance.
No, Slargos's. You wedged yours in before I got my reply out. <_<
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 09:37:32 AM
You are missing the point. Britain has created a system in which a subset of the society is effectively composed of violent parasites, kept docile by government handouts. The system (tailor made to the high flying elite as opposed one that provides higher employment but at the cost of operating less profitable industries) created a class of people who have no option but to be parasites (whether this is because they objectively have no other option or the dependency created by the system makes it psychologically impossible for them to have other options is beyond the point).
Now, if you cut off the handouts, they will revolt - their "moral" right to do so has no bearing on the assessment of the situation.
Maybe I'm simply not in complete agreement. Ever thought of that? :P
If the situation is as you describe then obviously your argument is not only internally consistent but also very likely entirely correct.
I'm questioning whether this revolt is due to the real or imagined grievances you describe, or due to the explosive mix of cultures of violence. A football hooligan doesn't stir up shit because he's frustrated with his financial situation (or, well, I guess it's more than possible that he actually does and it simply becomes a "permitted" outlet for his frustration) and until you've shown that these people are motivated by their real/imagined grievances rather than the enjoyment of destruction and looting, I'm not convinced.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 10, 2011, 09:40:53 AM
Social welfare doesn't alter the basic inequality of human society.
Maybe not food-stamp welfare. This is not the case for Sweden, however. Plenty of Swedish kids (unemployment in the <26 category straddled 30% last year, IIRC) go on welfare without rioting. The rioters are largely immigrants with a leavening of ideologically motivated (many of whom are simply vandals looking for an excuse) anarchists or communists.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:56:15 AM
I also recommend especially Berkut's and grumbler's posts in this thread, which call my prediction of social unrests in the UK as an evidence of me being an ignorant Pollack who has no idea about the real state of the European countries.
I feel vindicated. :cool:
You predicted a revolution. This is not a revolution.
Even if the riots could somwhow be described as a revolution, your analysis is just wrong. This is nothing to do with people feeling disempowered or whatever. It's a bunch of hood rats on the rob because they know (thanks to instant messaging etc) that the police ain't gonna be able to stop them.
Cliff notes: You're still an idiot.
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:51:08 AM
Cliff notes: You're still an idiot.
And you are still a paki.
See, we can both insult each other. Isn't it nice?
You're only insulting yourself.
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
A couple of weeks ago, I thought Murdoch desperately needed some disaster somewhere in the world to deflect attention. First there were the shootings in Norway. Then global markets go into dysfunction. Then we have a disaster in Afghanistan. Now we have London descending into Lord of the Flies.
You guys need to just let Murdoch go; the investigation is clearly provoking some evil power.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 10, 2011, 10:03:09 AM
A couple of weeks ago, I thought Murdoch desperately needed some disaster somewhere in the world to deflect attention. First there were the shootings in Norway. Then global markets go into dysfunction. Then we have a disaster in Afghanistan. Now we have London descending into Lord of the Flies.
You guys need to just let Murdoch go; the investigation is clearly provoking some evil power.
he's teh head of some evil cabal pulling the string to cause world discord :ph34r:
Better to bring matters to a head in that case. Strike while Sauron is still gathering his strength.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 10, 2011, 10:03:09 AM
A couple of weeks ago, I thought Murdoch desperately needed some disaster somewhere in the world to deflect attention. First there were the shootings in Norway. Then global markets go into dysfunction. Then we have a disaster in Afghanistan. Now we have London descending into Lord of the Flies.
You guys need to just let Murdoch go; the investigation is clearly provoking some evil power.
Yeah I thought yesterday that he is goddamn lucky with so many shit happening in the world right now, especially if you consider that July and August are usually rather calm and it looked like the Murdoch thing will be the story of the summer 2011.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:53:19 AM
Here're the posts I am talking about, from March:
Quote
It seems to me that for the last 20 years or so, Britain has created a sort of unwritten socio-economic contract, in which the rich generated wealth by vacuuming world cash through financial markets and giving it out as welfare handouts to the underclass, to prevent unrest and keep the internal consumption going (the City high-fliers do not buy cheap plasmas, and after Mrs. Thatcher effectively shut down Britain's heavy industry and then the rest of manufacturing industry fled abroad, there is preciously little wealth generating jobs left in the UK). Essentially, the beautiful eloi (sp?) worked and shared their wealth with the ugly lazy and poor morlocks.
Now that this steady flow of money into the economy has stopped due to the financial markets' crisis and the eloi are closing down the gravy tap by the "necessary cuts" (it's funny how the lucky, privileged rich do not see they are effectively breaking that contract that allowed them to keep/attain their position, and instead see it as justice against the lazy welfare underclass), what is the chance of the morlocks rising up and eating them?
Discuss.
QuoteIt's actually interesting how in retrospect the German economy - for so many years called the "sick man of Europe" - proves to be the right model, based on domestic production (and hefty foreign trade surplus) coupled with some of the best social protections, ensuring solid redistribution of goods (not to mention making sure tax havens are not a valid option).
Compare this to the UK model, where the tory government hires, as its "fiscal responsibility expert", a guy who got rich on a store chain by avoiding paying taxes in the UK thanks to his Monaco-resident
QuoteIf you create an economy where more than 5-10% or so of the working age populace simply has no option for gainful employment, and then decide to cut welfare to the "lazy ones", you are on a straight way to social unrest.
Having a "slimmed down" economy, that is not weighed down by mass employment of the working class has its advantages but you need to address social costs (and share the wealth with those who are left out) rather than sneer at them from your City/White Hall ivory tower for being unable to find a job.
What Germany does best is that they seem to factor social costs (and social "welfare", not necessarily meaning hand outs but the well-being of the populace at large) into their economic model. You can't build an economy that simply treats employees as a "resource" that is subject to the same rules of supply and demand as raw materials or manufacturing equipment - because sooner or later you will have a revolution on your hands. I think Brits have forgotten about it.
http://languish.org/forums/index.php?topic=4722.0
Your characterization of the German economy is based more on reputation than on fact.
Germany has cut its social system massively in the last decade. It has some of the lowest wages in Europe for a lot of services jobs. There isn't even a minimum wage, so some unqualified people work for as little as 4 Euro/hour. It's true that some manufacturing workers still have quite high salaries, but most people don't work in manufacturing. Income and wealth inequality in Germany is rising.
Here is a good article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704296704575431240767523752.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews
Quote(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsg.wsj.net%2Fpublic%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FWO-AC150_GERREA_NS_20100816190032.gif&hash=01cec2724cde143d40eed14a914d0ec47141b68b)
[...] But, despite the export-driven rebound, most German workers aren't getting any richer.
One in five are working in the low-wage sector, defined as earning less than €9 (about $11.50) an hour. Nearly a third of the job openings are temporary and often badly paid.
[...]
Chancellor Angela Merkel's government has hailed Germany's "job miracle" after whittling the jobless rate down to 7.6% of the work force, compared with unemployment levels of about 10% in the U.S. and France.
But the bulk of that reduction has come from the emergence of part-time jobs, often at low pay. That helps explain why German domestic demand has remained sluggish even as German exporters boast booming foreign orders.
[...]
By boosting productivity through investment and low wage increases in recent years, German businesses have gained a leg up over foreign competitors, and they hope to keep it that way.
Employer groups have argued against a countrywide, legal minimum wage, saying it would boost the price of unskilled labor and threaten more than a million jobs.
[...]
Average annual net income per employee has fallen steadily since 2004, reaching €15,815 in 2009, down from €16,471 in 2004.
As part of the so-called Hartz IV labor-market overhaul program to support low-income groups, the government has spent €50 billion in welfare subsidies since 2005 for people who earn too little to make a living.
Lobby groups for low-paid and unemployed workers worry that an increasing number of jobs have to be subsidized. "Hartz IV has made it possible for companies to get their profit subsidies from the general public, with companies paying starvation wages while those affected need Hartz IV to survive," said Martin Behrsing, spokesman for the Unemployed Forum Germany.
Another measure for low-income workers is looking at people who earn two-thirds or less of the average income. By that measure, the number of low-paid workers rose by almost 2.3 million people to 6.55 million from 1998 to 2008, according to a study by the Institute for Employment and Qualification at Duisburg-Essen University .
The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's employment outlook report 2010 shows that 21.5% of Germans worked in the low-pay sector in 2008, up from 16% in 1998. In an international comparison, the share of low-paid workers remained unchanged at 24.5% in the U.S. and increased only slightly in the U.K. to 21.2% from 20.8%. The average among OECD countries is 16%.
"I think we have seen in Germany for quite a while now an expansion of the low-wage sector, since the mid, late 1990s," said Herwig Immervoll, an economist with the Paris-based OECD. "There is an increase in the inequality in Germany. We see this in other countries too, but maybe not as much as in Germany."
[...]
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
That's no excuse for the lowest, laziest form of racism. You might as well go and join one of the EDL vigilante groups. Though you'd have to work on your accent first.
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
That's no excuse for the lowest, laziest form of racism. You might as well go and join one of the EDL vigilante groups. Though you'd have to work on your accent first.
I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:23:25 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 10, 2011, 08:18:56 AM
The 2010 Student Protests were not a riot.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prospectmagazine.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2FMillbank_after_protest_vandalism.gif&hash=a27d5833c4ae468b1e9f6a9b3cb6124782e97cc6)
Yeah, that was totally not staged for effect.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc.photoshelter.com%2Fimg-get%2FI0000Jj711iEP8YI%2Fs%2F750%2F750%2F20101110-a-wiard-0414.jpg&hash=15793f8a2ceb78ea555aa753636c33de5074e873)
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 05:14:40 AM
From Reuters:
QuoteSales of baseball bats and batons have shot up more than 5,000 percent in the last 24 hours on Amazon's British website, as London suffered its worst violent unrest in decades.
Seven of the top 10 'movers and shakers' in Amazon's sports and leisure list were baseball bats of various kinds, their sales since Monday rising between 1,756 percent and 5,149 percent.
A "military police telescopic baton," described by the manufacturer as useful for "effective self-defence with extra reach," was the 110th best selling item among Amazon's sports and leisure customers, up from a ranking of 5,622 just 24 hours ago. Actual sale number of the items are not given.
Many Londoners have questioned how rioters had been able to loot and ransack shops on Monday night with impunity, with the stretched police force criticised for its inability to cope and reluctance to use heavy tactics.
The Metropolitan police have vowed "robust" action which may include rubber bullets if disorder breaks out for a fourth day on Tuesday.
Amazon UK could not immediately be reached for comment.
Well, on the plus side the British may take up a non-pussy sport like Baseball.
Quote from: Tamas on August 10, 2011, 08:58:11 AM
It was not as spot-on as my heavily attacked predictions on Turkey, but still good enough in your leauge. ^_^
:lmfao:
Right.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
That's no excuse for the lowest, laziest form of racism. You might as well go and join one of the EDL vigilante groups. Though you'd have to work on your accent first.
I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.
You're white. Can't be racist against whites. :rolleyes:
http://yfrog.com/evd8qmz
The first guy to be convicted deos his perp walk. Covers his face up with a paper and walks slam into a lamp post.
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 10:43:44 AM
http://yfrog.com/evd8qmz
The first guy to be convicted deos his perp walk. Covers his face up with a paper and walks slam into a lamp post.
Wow, your courts move
fast.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:38:11 AM
I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.
Polack means someone of Polish descent as far as I'm aware. We don't even use the word in the UK so I can't vouch for it's use as an insult, but I'd call an Irishman a Paddy without fear of insulting him. Paki is 100% derogatory, and all the worse (and lazy) because it's used against anyone of Asian descent. It's as bad as the N-word in the UK.
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:55:03 AM
Polack means someone of Polish descent as far as I'm aware.
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Very much like calling a Pakistani a 'Paki'.
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 10:43:44 AM
http://yfrog.com/evd8qmz
The first guy to be convicted deos his perp walk. Covers his face up with a paper and walks slam into a lamp post.
:lol: Funniest thing I've seen all week!
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 10, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:55:03 AM
Polack means someone of Polish descent as far as I'm aware.
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Before I joined Languish, I thought it was unfair.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:23:25 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 10, 2011, 08:18:56 AM
The 2010 Student Protests were not a riot.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prospectmagazine.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2FMillbank_after_protest_vandalism.gif&hash=a27d5833c4ae468b1e9f6a9b3cb6124782e97cc6)
Yeah, what's your point? A few kids broke into one building. I work above where the protestors went and had a pretty good view of proceedings. Not a riot.
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:38:11 AM
I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.
Polack means someone of Polish descent as far as I'm aware. We don't even use the word in the UK so I can't vouch for it's use as an insult, but I'd call an Irishman a Paddy without fear of insulting him. Paki is 100% derogatory, and all the worse (and lazy) because it's used against anyone of Asian descent. It's as bad as the N-word in the UK.
There is too much casual racism being tossed around on the forum recently. I don't know if the slav and polish related crap is just joking being tossed at Martinus, but I could understand if he didn't take some if it as joking.
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 10:43:44 AM
http://yfrog.com/evd8qmz
The first guy to be convicted deos his perp walk. Covers his face up with a paper and walks slam into a lamp post.
:lol:
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 10:41:12 AM
You're white. Can't be racist against whites. :rolleyes:
He's a Slav. Haven't you been listening to Neil at all?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 10, 2011, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 10:41:12 AM
You're white. Can't be racist against whites. :rolleyes:
He's a Slav. Haven't you been listening to Neil at all?
Last month he said the a people could racist against
Protestants. I'm guessing he just doesn't know what racism actually means.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2011, 11:10:51 AM
Last month he said the a people could racist against Protestants. I'm guessing he just doesn't know what racism actually means.
Neil or Slargos? Or Martinus?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2011, 11:10:51 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 10, 2011, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 10:41:12 AM
You're white. Can't be racist against whites. :rolleyes:
He's a Slav. Haven't you been listening to Neil at all?
Last month he said the a people could racist against Protestants. I'm guessing he just doesn't know what racism actually means.
:lol:
I'm not having this discussion with you again.
Raz is a Mariolator and as such has hostility toward those of the True Christian Faith. :pope:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
Is insulting you really giving up the high ground though?
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
That's no excuse for the lowest, laziest form of racism. You might as well go and join one of the EDL vigilante groups. Though you'd have to work on your accent first.
I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.
You're white. Can't be racist against whites. :rolleyes:
He's a Slav, not a white.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Quote from: alfred russel on August 10, 2011, 10:59:52 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 10, 2011, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:38:11 AM
I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.
Polack means someone of Polish descent as far as I'm aware. We don't even use the word in the UK so I can't vouch for it's use as an insult, but I'd call an Irishman a Paddy without fear of insulting him. Paki is 100% derogatory, and all the worse (and lazy) because it's used against anyone of Asian descent. It's as bad as the N-word in the UK.
There is too much casual racism being tossed around on the forum recently. I don't know if the slav and polish related crap is just joking being tossed at Martinus, but I could understand if he didn't take some if it as joking.
Mishun accomplishd. :ph34r:
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
He's a Slav, not a white.
For the purpose of determining who can be the victim of racism, polacks are white. Technicality.
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
He's a Slav, not a white.
For the purpose of determining who can be the victim of racism, polacks are white. Technicality.
what about porkchops? My family come from the middle, so not too white nor to dark. Am i white? :P
Of course you are. Vasco Da Gama is evil whitey #1.
Quote from: Valmy on August 10, 2011, 11:39:43 AM
Of course you are. Vasco Da Gama is evil whitey #1.
Sweet. Empirealism has served me once more!
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 10, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Meh, if Spanish-speakers can say
polaco without it being offensive, we can use 'Polack'. I've never met any Poles or Polish-Americans who actually get offended by the term anyway.
QuoteVery much like calling a Pakistani a 'Paki'.
Except that calling someone with some Indian heritage a 'Paki' is lazy racism, as Brazen mentioned. And in the UK, 'Paki' draws a much stronger reaction than 'Polack' ever has in the US.
Quote from: HVC on August 10, 2011, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
He's a Slav, not a white.
For the purpose of determining who can be the victim of racism, polacks are white. Technicality.
what about porkchops? My family come from the middle, so not too white nor to dark. Am i white? :P
Depends. If you're dark enough to look like an arab you might be the victim of racism but given your european heritage and your canadian citizenship I would expect not.
Talking from a purely Swedish standpoint here, granted. And perhaps I should add that it's actually explicitly stated that by law, a Swede (for this purpose, a person of exclusively Swedish ancestry, though there are in fact no Swedes since we were all immigrants to begin with and while there's no such thing as an ethnic Swede there are apparently other ethnicities in existance sometimes, but not always. Don't ask me to explain it, there is no logic to the reasoning.) cannot suffer racial discrimination.
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:43:10 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 10, 2011, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
He's a Slav, not a white.
For the purpose of determining who can be the victim of racism, polacks are white. Technicality.
what about porkchops? My family come from the middle, so not too white nor to dark. Am i white? :P
Depends. If you're dark enough to look like an arab you might be the victim of racism but given your european heritage and your canadian citizenship I would expect not.
i tan dark, but i'm rather fair (i think, those from the TO meet might disagree :lol: ).
That fellow who had his backpack rifled whilst looters pretended to help him has been identified :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14476828
A Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on August 10, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
You're only insulting yourself.
Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.
Is insulting you really giving up the high ground though?
Not as far as I know. Marty must be reminded for his own worthlessness at every opportunity. For his own good. It's a medical thing.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 10, 2011, 12:01:21 PM
That fellow who had his backpack rifled whilst looters pretended to help him has been identified :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14476828
A Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
" screw this. Malaysia is to dangerous I'm getting a scholarship somewhere nice and safe. " One month later: "god dammit"
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 10, 2011, 12:01:21 PM
That fellow who had his backpack rifled whilst looters pretended to help him has been identified :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14476828 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14476828)
A Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
While it is a fucking tragedy, and watching it makes me want to hurt someone, the whole situation also provokes my sense of morbid humour.
"Welcome to England" *YOINK*
Quote from: derspiess on August 10, 2011, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 10, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Meh, if Spanish-speakers can say polaco without it being offensive, we can use 'Polack'. I've never met any Poles or Polish-Americans who actually get offended by the term anyway.
QuoteVery much like calling a Pakistani a 'Paki'.
Except that calling someone with some Indian heritage a 'Paki' is lazy racism, as Brazen mentioned. And in the UK, 'Paki' draws a much stronger reaction than 'Polack' ever has in the US.
You can get away with it because Poles never formed effective crime syndicates in this country. You insult an Irishman, he'll beat the shit out you. You insult an Italian, he'll get his pals and then beat the shit out of you. You insult a Jew, he'll get his friends and beat the shit out you then
sue you. You insult a Pole, he'll just stare at you while you walk him through what you just said.
God only know what happens to you if you insult a Russian. They'll probably end up eating you or something.
Quote from: Syt on August 10, 2011, 10:38:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:23:25 AM
Quote from: Warspite on August 10, 2011, 08:18:56 AM
The 2010 Student Protests were not a riot.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prospectmagazine.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2FMillbank_after_protest_vandalism.gif&hash=a27d5833c4ae468b1e9f6a9b3cb6124782e97cc6)
Yeah, that was totally not staged for effect.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc.photoshelter.com%2Fimg-get%2FI0000Jj711iEP8YI%2Fs%2F750%2F750%2F20101110-a-wiard-0414.jpg&hash=15793f8a2ceb78ea555aa753636c33de5074e873)
While a hurricane kick does indeed look cool, it is not the best way to complete the bonus stage for maximum points.
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Norwegian newspapers are reporting "Anger over the killing of Duggan" as cause for the riots. No notion of the fact that while it may have been the spark, the current rioters certainly have other motivations.
I would expect the Norwegian school system also teaches regicide as the cause for WW1. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 12:26:30 PM
I would expect the Norwegian school system also teaches regicide as the cause for WW1. :rolleyes:
I rather doubt it, as that would support a pro-Central Powers narrative.
let us see if this works...
http://bennyhillifier.com/?id=OPdQCuc7CZo
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:56:15 AM
I also recommend especially Berkut's and grumbler's posts in this thread, which call my prediction of social unrests in the UK as an evidence of me being an ignorant Pollack who has no idea about the real state of the European countries.
I feel vindicated. :cool:
And I feel vindicated as well, since none of the descriptions of Britain you posted were true... and the Morlocks haven't eaten the Eloi.
Britain continues to manufacture in spite of you, alas. Or maybe they continue to manufacture
to spite you! :P
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:53:25 PM
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
When I was a young teen I had a crush on all female comic book characters with big tits.
Quote from: grumbler on August 10, 2011, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 08:56:15 AM
I also recommend especially Berkut's and grumbler's posts in this thread, which call my prediction of social unrests in the UK as an evidence of me being an ignorant Pollack who has no idea about the real state of the European countries.
I feel vindicated. :cool:
And I feel vindicated as well, since none of the descriptions of Britain you posted were true... and the Morlocks haven't eaten the Eloi.
Britain continues to manufacture in spite of you, alas. Or maybe they continue to manufacture to spite you! :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hickerphoto.com%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F180%2Fsnow-capped-mountain-peaks_19012.jpg&hash=b44a9dcedf22e1d40768ef664ff703165187f12e)
Martinus: "Dude. Keep your voice down or we'll all soon be covered in snow."
Grumbler: "Haha. You're an idiot. That is impossible. The sun is out and there's not a cloud in sight."
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-TP3n0n3yIaw%2FTgOhOeDHuFI%2FAAAAAAAAABE%2FRe0YmWzPbpU%2Fs1600%2Favalanche.jpg&hash=dd0eaa56414feada99bc6ca413d4731ecebb93d2)
Martinus: "Shit, man. I told you so. Look!"
Grumbler: "Haha, you moron, there's still no snow on me."
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Funexplainedmysteriesoftheworld.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2FPurple-Snow-300x300.jpg&hash=c46a3e55f3b9eb34b6c8c542a9dcd9ae1110b52d)
Martinus: "..."
Grumbler: "..."
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 10, 2011, 12:01:21 PMA Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
Group's been set up (via twitter) to pay for his mum to come and visit :)
QuoteRiots are a part of the British political system, a counterbalance to the overwhelming power of Parliament ;)
I've been reading Peter Ackroyd's 'London' (I can't recommend it enough) and the section on the mob suggests that riots are very much part of London's life.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
You know, there were an awful lot of redheads in comic books of that period. I think that someone at Marvel had a thing for redheads.
I found it easy to empathize with Kitty because she was young like me.
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 10, 2011, 02:25:42 PM
I've been reading Peter Ackroyd's 'London' (I can't recommend it enough) and the section on the mob suggests that riots are very much part of London's life.
I've been reading that as well.
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 02:22:50 PM
Martinus: "Dude. Keep your voice down or we'll all soon be covered in snow."
Grumbler: "Haha. You're an idiot. That is impossible. The sun is out and there's not a cloud in sight."
Martinus: "Shit, man. I told you so. Look!"
Grumbler: "Haha, you moron, there's still no snow on me."
Martinus: "..."
Grumbler: "..."
Grumbler laughs at mere snow. It is nothing to the chill of death which has been his constant companion for millennia.
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 10, 2011, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 10, 2011, 12:01:21 PMA Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
Group's been set up (via twitter) to pay for his mum to come and visit :)
QuoteRiots are a part of the British political system, a counterbalance to the overwhelming power of Parliament ;)
I've been reading Peter Ackroyd's 'London' (I can't recommend it enough) and the section on the mob suggests that riots are very much part of London's life.
It doesn't involve giving your bank details to someone in Nigeria I hope :huh: ?
Ackroyd's book is on my "to buy" list :cool:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 10, 2011, 02:30:12 PM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 02:22:50 PM
Martinus: "Dude. Keep your voice down or we'll all soon be covered in snow."
Grumbler: "Haha. You're an idiot. That is impossible. The sun is out and there's not a cloud in sight."
Martinus: "Shit, man. I told you so. Look!"
Grumbler: "Haha, you moron, there's still no snow on me."
Martinus: "..."
Grumbler: "..."
Grumbler laughs at mere snow. It is nothing to the chill of death which has been his constant companion for millennia.
Indeed. Glaciers come and go all the time.
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
You know, there were an awful lot of redheads in comic books of that period. I think that someone at Marvel had a thing for redheads.
I found it easy to empathize with Kitty because she was young like me.
Redheads have always been way overrepresented in fiction in general, and comics in particular.
I mean, look at the Superman family. Out of like eight major characters, three--all unrelated to one another--have red hair (well, three if you count Lex Luthor).
I think by the time I'd started reading comics, Kitty wasn't around in the X-Men. I only know her through back issues.
Quote from: HVC on August 10, 2011, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:43:10 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 10, 2011, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
He's a Slav, not a white.
For the purpose of determining who can be the victim of racism, polacks are white. Technicality.
what about porkchops? My family come from the middle, so not too white nor to dark. Am i white? :P
Depends. If you're dark enough to look like an arab you might be the victim of racism but given your european heritage and your canadian citizenship I would expect not.
i tan dark, but i'm rather fair (i think, those from the TO meet might disagree :lol: ).
You're a lovely fellow HVC, but I'm afraid you're not white. :(
Quote from: Barrister on August 10, 2011, 04:25:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 10, 2011, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:43:10 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 10, 2011, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
He's a Slav, not a white.
For the purpose of determining who can be the victim of racism, polacks are white. Technicality.
what about porkchops? My family come from the middle, so not too white nor to dark. Am i white? :P
Depends. If you're dark enough to look like an arab you might be the victim of racism but given your european heritage and your canadian citizenship I would expect not.
i tan dark, but i'm rather fair (i think, those from the TO meet might disagree :lol: ).
You're a lovely fellow HVC, but I'm afraid you're not white. :(
OMG raciss. :x
Are there any pictures?
Quote from: derspiess on August 10, 2011, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 10, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Meh, if Spanish-speakers can say polaco without it being offensive, we can use 'Polack'. I've never met any Poles or Polish-Americans who actually get offended by the term anyway.
QuoteVery much like calling a Pakistani a 'Paki'.
Except that calling someone with some Indian heritage a 'Paki' is lazy racism, as Brazen mentioned. And in the UK, 'Paki' draws a much stronger reaction than 'Polack' ever has in the US.
I'm neither in the UK or the US. In Poland, Polack draws a strong reaction. :P
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 10, 2011, 12:01:21 PM
That fellow who had his backpack rifled whilst looters pretended to help him has been identified :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14476828
A Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
Apparently, there is a website to help him and Playstation has offered to give him his console that was stolen, plus games. Same for some bike company which is going to give him a new bike. :)
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 10, 2011, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 10, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Meh, if Spanish-speakers can say polaco without it being offensive, we can use 'Polack'. I've never met any Poles or Polish-Americans who actually get offended by the term anyway.
QuoteVery much like calling a Pakistani a 'Paki'.
Except that calling someone with some Indian heritage a 'Paki' is lazy racism, as Brazen mentioned. And in the UK, 'Paki' draws a much stronger reaction than 'Polack' ever has in the US.
I'm neither in the UK or the US. In Poland, Polack draws a strong reaction. :P
It's funny, in Sweden and Norway there simply is no other term to describe a person from Poland, unless you want to go with "dumbass" or "daylabourer".
Of course, we pronounce it slightly differently.
"CO-ck SUCK-er"
:rolleyes:
No. But really.
Polack (Norwegian, Swedish): "A person of polish heritage"
Can't actually think of a slur for polacks in Swedish. I guess we don't spend that much time talking about you to bother with one.
Although we do have an expression that goes, literally translated, "Polish Parliament" meaning "A lot of noise and/or bitching and/or fighting, but nothing useful gets done".
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 03:47:43 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
You know, there were an awful lot of redheads in comic books of that period. I think that someone at Marvel had a thing for redheads.
I found it easy to empathize with Kitty because she was young like me.
Redheads have always been way overrepresented in fiction in general, and comics in particular.
I mean, look at the Superman family. Out of like eight major characters, three--all unrelated to one another--have red hair (well, three if you count Lex Luthor).
Lana Lang is the only one that's a woman. Compare that to Jean Grey and all her clones/extradimensional children, Natasha Romanoff, Colleen Wing, Theresa Cassidy, Angelica Jones, Mary Jane Watson-Parker, Medusa and Crystal from the Inhumans were all redheads. The Scarlett Witch was auburn. Marvel was a lot heavier on the redheads back in the day.
QuoteI think by the time I'd started reading comics, Kitty wasn't around in the X-Men. I only know her through back issues.
I wasn't reading comics when she first appeared in 1980, but I definitely was by the time she moved in Excalibur in 88.
Well fuck. It looks like this shit is over. My fun is over. :cry:
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:34:50 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 10, 2011, 12:01:21 PM
That fellow who had his backpack rifled whilst looters pretended to help him has been identified :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14476828
A Malaysian accountancy student, poor bastard won a scholarship and has only been here a month. I find it a rather shaming story :(
Apparently, there is a website to help him and Playstation has offered to give him his console that was stolen, plus games. Same for some bike company which is going to give him a new bike. :)
If I'm ever mugged I hope someone catches it on video and posts it on YouTube.
There could be some ethnic violence in Birmingham tonight; basically a peaceful crowd of 200-300 young British Asians have gathered in a vigil to the three young men killed by the hit and run attack last night.
There's some suggestion they're going to march down the road to an area with a large afro-Caribbean population, so something might well kick off.
Quote from: Martinus on August 10, 2011, 04:33:44 PM
I'm neither in the UK or the US. In Poland, Polack draws a strong reaction. :P
I thought Polack came from the Polish word for a male Pole.
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 03:47:43 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
You know, there were an awful lot of redheads in comic books of that period. I think that someone at Marvel had a thing for redheads.
I found it easy to empathize with Kitty because she was young like me.
Redheads have always been way overrepresented in fiction in general, and comics in particular.
I mean, look at the Superman family. Out of like eight major characters, three--all unrelated to one another--have red hair (well, three if you count Lex Luthor).
Lana Lang is the only one that's a woman. Compare that to Jean Grey and all her clones/extradimensional children, Natasha Romanoff, Colleen Wing, Theresa Cassidy, Angelica Jones, Mary Jane Watson-Parker, Medusa and Crystal from the Inhumans were all redheads. The Scarlett Witch was auburn. Marvel was a lot heavier on the redheads back in the day.
Also, Firestar.
I was gonna argue Crystal, but I just checked my copy of FF 45, and yeah, I guess for a while she was a redhead. I'm not sure if she should count, but if she does, Vicki Vale does.
But I was only using the Superman family. If we want to go full universe, with a cut-off of say 1990, there's Lana Lang and Vicki Vale, as noted, Carrie Kelly, Lightning Lass, Saturn Queen, Barbara Gordon, Poison Ivy, Giganta, the period in the 1980s where Dan Jurgens or somebody decided that Lois Lane's hair color was not jet black but instead some kind of dark red, and all those times Jimmy Olsen put on a wig and hung out in the men's room. I'd like to include Artemis and Knockout, but they didn't appear till 1994.
I suppose Marvel has an edge, though.
I think DC has a lot more guys with red hair than Marvel. The only Marvel redheaded male I can even think of offhand is Matt Murdock, whereas DC has Luthor, Olsen, Lightning Lad, Sun Boy, Ralph Dibny, Jason Todd, Roy Harper, and so on.
QuoteQuoteI think by the time I'd started reading comics, Kitty wasn't around in the X-Men. I only know her through back issues.
I wasn't reading comics when she first appeared in 1980, but I definitely was by the time she moved in Excalibur in 88.
I started reading X-Men with X-Men #1, when I was 9.
Weird place to pick up. What was even worse is that I missed #3 (the swan song of the Claremont run and the death of Magneto) and didn't get to read it till I was, I dunno, twenty or something.
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 04:43:37 PM
No. But really.
Polack (Norwegian, Swedish): "A person of polish heritage"
When I went to do my masters project in germany I went to a university in eastern germany with many polish students. In icelandic Pólverji, in norwegian Polakk. Knowing that the icelandic word doesn't transliterate (þjóðverji is icelandic for german), while the norwegian probably did. So, at one breakfast meeting I said something like "Er ist Polakk, wie....", my german was (and is) sufficiently good that everybody thought I had just launched a racial slur in a room where the poles and russians outnumbered germans and icelanders. I found myself corrected when I asked what was wrong when everybody stared at me like I just called a black man a nigger at a black panthers meeting. I didn't do it again, playing stupid usually solves most social faux pas when abroad.
<snipped comics wank>
You nerds disappoint me sometimes.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 10, 2011, 06:47:07 PM
<snipped comics wank>
You nerds disappoint me sometimes.
I thought you might approve of our marginalization of Britain's apparent inability to deal with unarmed, disorganized hooligans.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 06:49:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 10, 2011, 06:47:07 PM
<snipped comics wank>
You nerds disappoint me sometimes.
I thought you might approve of our marginalization of Britain's apparent inability to deal with unarmed, disorganized hooligans.
I blacked out when Jean Grey got mentioned.
Quote from: Viking on August 10, 2011, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: Slargos on August 10, 2011, 04:43:37 PM
No. But really.
Polack (Norwegian, Swedish): "A person of polish heritage"
When I went to do my masters project in germany I went to a university in eastern germany with many polish students. In icelandic Pólverji, in norwegian Polakk. Knowing that the icelandic word doesn't transliterate (þjóðverji is icelandic for german), while the norwegian probably did. So, at one breakfast meeting I said something like "Er ist Polakk, wie....", my german was (and is) sufficiently good that everybody thought I had just launched a racial slur in a room where the poles and russians outnumbered germans and icelanders. I found myself corrected when I asked what was wrong when everybody stared at me like I just called a black man a nigger at a black panthers meeting. I didn't do it again, playing stupid usually solves most social faux pas when abroad.
Man, is there anywhere you haven't lived at some point, you cosmopolitan fucktard? :D
The manager of a prosperous whorehouse in Warsaw one night found to his dismay that he was short of girls for the evening's entertainment. Thinking quickly, he dashed out and bought several blow-up dolls, figuring that, given his average clientele, no one would know the difference.
Soon he ushered a customer into a room that housed one of the new lovelies, assuring him that he was in for an especially good time. When the customer came out of the room a little while later, the manager was waiting eagerly in the hallway.
He winked at him and asked, "Well? How'd you like her?"
"I don't know what happened," said the customer, shaking his head. "I bit her on the tit, she farted, and flew out the window."
How the hell did you guys get from rioting to Marvel comics?! :huh:
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 10, 2011, 06:54:03 PM
How the hell did you guys get from rioting to Marvel comics?! :huh:
Mention of Captain Britain led to a mention of Chris Claremont led to a mention of Jean Grey led to a mention of redheads in comics.
It's all very simple.
That was as good a summary of the last few pages as any. Thank you. :bowler:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 06:43:04 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 03:47:43 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 10, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 10, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 09, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned. Not to mention Rachel Summers. :contract:
But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.
Kitty Pryde?
Who do I look like, Siegebreaker?
Didn't you read comics when you were a kid?
I think when I was a kid I had a crush on Jean Grey. :hmm:
You know, there were an awful lot of redheads in comic books of that period. I think that someone at Marvel had a thing for redheads.
I found it easy to empathize with Kitty because she was young like me.
Redheads have always been way overrepresented in fiction in general, and comics in particular.
I mean, look at the Superman family. Out of like eight major characters, three--all unrelated to one another--have red hair (well, three if you count Lex Luthor).
Lana Lang is the only one that's a woman. Compare that to Jean Grey and all her clones/extradimensional children, Natasha Romanoff, Colleen Wing, Theresa Cassidy, Angelica Jones, Mary Jane Watson-Parker, Medusa and Crystal from the Inhumans were all redheads. The Scarlett Witch was auburn. Marvel was a lot heavier on the redheads back in the day.
Also, Firestar.
I was gonna argue Crystal, but I just checked my copy of FF 45, and yeah, I guess for a while she was a redhead. I'm not sure if she should count, but if she does, Vicki Vale does.
But I was only using the Superman family. If we want to go full universe, with a cut-off of say 1990, there's Lana Lang and Vicki Vale, as noted, Carrie Kelly, Lightning Lass, Saturn Queen, Barbara Gordon, Poison Ivy, Giganta, the period in the 1980s where Dan Jurgens or somebody decided that Lois Lane's hair color was not jet black but instead some kind of dark red, and all those times Jimmy Olsen put on a wig and hung out in the men's room. I'd like to include Artemis and Knockout, but they didn't appear till 1994.
I suppose Marvel has an edge, though.
I think DC has a lot more guys with red hair than Marvel. The only Marvel redheaded male I can even think of offhand is Matt Murdock, whereas DC has Luthor, Olsen, Lightning Lad, Sun Boy, Ralph Dibny, Jason Todd, Roy Harper, and so on.
Yeah, DC gets the edge for males without a doubt. Sean Cassidy and Matt Murdock are pretty much it. And Angelica Jones is Firestar.
Ralph Dibny being dead sucks ass.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI think by the time I'd started reading comics, Kitty wasn't around in the X-Men. I only know her through back issues.
I wasn't reading comics when she first appeared in 1980, but I definitely was by the time she moved in Excalibur in 88.
I started reading X-Men with X-Men #1, when I was 9.
Weird place to pick up. What was even worse is that I missed #3 (the swan song of the Claremont run and the death of Magneto) and didn't get to read it till I was, I dunno, twenty or something.
X-Men #1 is probably the least stand-alone issue #1 of all time. Mind you, Magneto's back-to-back deaths (X-Men #3 and #25) are probably the best the character has ever been.
I started reading way back in 1984, when the X-Men were having all sorts of wacky adventures that were fantastic and more than a little bit sci-fi.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 10, 2011, 06:47:07 PM
<snipped comics wank>
You nerds disappoint me sometimes.
Meh. This is our world now. Hurry up and die.
Yeah, I've read some of the mid-80s stuff too. It's weird, and has little to nothing to do with the X-Men core concept, but in a way that's sort of a good thing. You can only be told "prejudice is bad" so many times.
The Australia stuff isn't so hot.
X-Men #1 really militates against the idea that shit has to be stripped down to be accessible. Not claiming it's the height of the art form or anything, but I, as a nine year old kid who had read a half dozen out-of-sequence Wolverine comics prior, had no real problem getting into a story that depended on something like 100 issues worth of continuity.
FFS, move the comic geek crap to another thread.
I dunno, we're probably about done.
Well, derailing the derail, has anybody seen a check-in from Brazen?
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 10, 2011, 11:24:00 PM
Well, derailing the derail, has anybody seen a check-in from Brazen?
I'm OK, we exported our violence to the Northerners as they can't afford their own.
I'm expecting a bit of trouble in Tottenham tonight (a week on from the original shooting) and some rumbling over the weekend quickly stomped on by da feds.
We had Boris in Enfield yesterday, he'll save us all!
Did you manage to get some booze, or had it all been looted?
The riots soon stopped when Boris got back from his hols, crikey!
Quote from: derspiess on August 10, 2011, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 10, 2011, 10:56:43 AM
Yes, but in Continental Europe and the US that also means "retarded idiot", for historical reasons.
Meh, if Spanish-speakers can say polaco without it being offensive, we can use 'Polack'. I've never met any Poles or Polish-Americans who actually get offended by the term anyway.
Polaco and
Polonés have some specialised meanings as well but non derogatory ones, in Castilian at least.
Colour me sceptical. The Larch or Iormlund should confirm or not in any case.
Polonês in Portuguese sounds Brazilian to me while
Polaco is the standard term in in Portuguese.
On the other hand,
Polaque in French used to be derogatory not so much though now like
Rital.
And Poles around me use "pakis" to talk about Pakistanis (in Polish) all the time. Not sure what your point is.
Quote from: derspiess on August 10, 2011, 11:41:29 AM
Except that calling someone with some Indian heritage a 'Paki' is lazy racism, as Brazen mentioned. And in the UK, 'Paki' draws a much stronger reaction than 'Polack' ever has in the US.
Sorry missed this post. Ok, so if he was a Pakistani, calling him "Paki" would be alright, but if he is an Indian, it's not? Ok, so where were you, Brazen and others when Neil and others called me a "Russkie"?
Seriously, I'm beginning to side with Slargos that "it is not racist when you use a slur against a white person", apparently. :rolleyes:
Like I said, Paki is the N-word of the UK, offensive WHOEVER it's used against. Unlike nigger it hasn't been embraced ironically by the cultures it was previously used against. No-one would look at you and call you anything on your appearance alone. A bunch of us have been chased down the street in urban Jamaica and had "whitey" shouted at us, but honesty there's no power to a word like that.
You're a pal Mart, but your ability to turn any thread about any important subject into me, me, me astounds me sometimes.
IIRC someone on EUOT got his panties twisted something fierce when a non-native speaker made a joke about "Coffee" Annan. Apparently you had to be a Nazi not to know about his local word usage scene.
The Paki thing on Languish is pretty stale though. We've had this at least 100 times.
From the Beeb's live coverage today:
QuoteSome more foreign reaction. State-owned Libyan TV has told its viewers that "The British Broadcasting Corporation has revealed that David Cameron is carrying out a large-scale terror operation against the British people". According to BBC Monitoring, the channel said that the rioters were "revolutionaries" fighting against "Cameron's mercenaries and brigades".
:lol:
I don't think "nigger" has been embraced ironically (it's not the same as "nigga"), at least not in the US. I'm willing to bet if you asked an average American (or in fact anyone, perhaps outside the UK, as you say), they would tell you that "nigger" is much more offensive than "paki".
P.S. Poles here freak out every time when someone English speaking says "Polack" - recently there was something akin to a low-key diplomatic intervention and a letter writing campaign to some newspaper that published a blogger who used the word online.
So, what I'm saying, the British context is not nessecarily relevant on the board which is compoased of international posters, where Brits are not even dominant. Your mileage may vary. Considering the relative ease with which people use here words like "Polack", "Nigger", "Faggot", "Kike", "Towelhead", "Kraut", "Beaner", "Mooselimb" etc. I find your overreaction weird for someone who frequents this board with regularity.
Quote from: Brazen on August 11, 2011, 05:48:10 AM
From the Beeb's live coverage today:
QuoteSome more foreign reaction. State-owned Libyan TV has told its viewers that "The British Broadcasting Corporation has revealed that David Cameron is carrying out a large-scale terror operation against the British people". According to BBC Monitoring, the channel said that the rioters were "revolutionaries" fighting against "Cameron's mercenaries and brigades".
:lol:
About time Libya recognizes the revolutionary government of Britain as the rightful sovereign.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 05:50:35 AM
I don't think "nigger" has been embraced ironically (it's not the same as "nigga"), at least not in the US. I'm willing to bet if you asked an average American (or in fact anyone, perhaps outside the UK, as you say), they would tell you that "nigger" is much more offensive than "paki".
P.S. Poles here freak out every time when someone English speaking says "Polack" - recently there was something akin to a low-key diplomatic intervention and a letter writing campaign to some newspaper that published a blogger who used the word online.
So, what I'm saying, the British context is not nessecarily relevant on the board which is compoased of international posters, where Brits are not even dominant. Your mileage may vary. Considering the relative ease with which people use here words like "Polack", "Nigger", "Faggot", "Kike", "Towelhead", "Kraut", "Beaner", "Mooselimb" etc. I find your overreaction weird for someone who frequents this board with regularity.
This got boring about seven pages ago
Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2011, 06:00:48 AM
This got boring about seven pages ago
Thank Hod I missed it.
As a North Germanic I am sick of all the slurs that get thrown our way.
Quote from: Brazen on August 11, 2011, 03:41:06 AM
No-one would look at you and call you anything on your appearance alone.
Look at that chin. He's super slavic, and being a Slav is a bad thing.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 05:50:35 AM
I don't think "nigger" has been embraced ironically (it's not the same as "nigga"),
No, it is. It's just that education has failed black people, and they have failed education. Thus, ebonics.
Still don't get the whole "Paki" thing. It's just shortened. Like "Brit". Or "Jap".
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 11, 2011, 03:01:31 AM
Polaco and Polonés have some specialised meanings as well but non derogatory ones, in Castilian at least.
Colour me sceptical. The Larch or Iormlund should confirm or not in any case.
"Polaco" is, for some reason I just don't understand, used as a slur by people from the rest of Spain in general and Madrid in particular to refer to Catalonians in general and people from Barcelona in particular. If they support FC Barcelona then it's triple bonus points or something.
It has nothing to do with Poland itself, and "polaco" just means Polish.
In some parts of South America, AFAIK, "polaco" can be used as a catch-all term for any person of slavic origin.
Quote from: The Larch on August 11, 2011, 06:46:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 11, 2011, 03:01:31 AM
Polaco and Polonés have some specialised meanings as well but non derogatory ones, in Castilian at least.
Colour me sceptical. The Larch or Iormlund should confirm or not in any case.
"Polaco" is, for some reason I just don't understand, used as a slur by people from the rest of Spain in general and Madrid in particular to refer to Catalonians in general and people from Barcelona in particular. If they support FC Barcelona then it's triple bonus points or something.
It has nothing to do with Poland itself, and "polaco" just means Polish.
In some parts of South America, AFAIK, "polaco" can be used as a catch-all term for any person of slavic origin.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdemots.co.uk%2Fweb%2Fgfx%2Fmo-just%2520stop.jpg&hash=f65f897b99f9f3a80d24af2eb093c1b3d0bb71d7)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 11, 2011, 06:40:53 AM
Still don't get the whole "Paki" thing. It's just shortened. Like "Brit". Or "Jap".
Nigs with cigs eating figs in the brig.
This reminds me: I should get started on "The Nigger of the Narcissus".
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 11, 2011, 06:40:53 AM
Still don't get the whole "Paki" thing. It's just shortened. Like "Brit". Or "Jap".
It doesn't make sense yeah, but then Jap is offensive too.
And doesn't negro just mean dark skinned or somesuch?
I guess its just the history.
Quote from: The Brain on August 11, 2011, 05:44:54 AM
IIRC someone on EUOT got his panties twisted something fierce when a non-native speaker made a joke about "Coffee" Annan. Apparently you had to be a Nazi not to know about his local word usage scene.
The Paki thing on Languish is pretty stale though. We've had this at least 100 times.
Lol, I remember that!
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2011, 07:02:28 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 11, 2011, 06:40:53 AM
Still don't get the whole "Paki" thing. It's just shortened. Like "Brit". Or "Jap".
It doesn't make sense yeah, but then Jap is offensive too.
And doesn't negro just mean dark skinned or somesuch?
I guess its just the history.
Where is "Jap" offensive?
Incidentally, isn't "Chav" racist against white lower class Brits?
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 08:03:55 AM
Incidentally, isn't "Chav" racist against white lower class Brits?
How can you be raciss against a fashion choice?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fllnw.thesims3.com%2Fsims3_asset%2Fsims3_asset%2Fthumb%2Fshard000%2F000%2F043%2F213%2F57%2Flarge.jpg&hash=567fb65303df713238ddd54de3d625aa9a42b304)
Quote from: Viking on August 11, 2011, 08:05:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 08:03:55 AM
Incidentally, isn't "Chav" racist against white lower class Brits?
How can you be raciss against a fashion choice?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fllnw.thesims3.com%2Fsims3_asset%2Fsims3_asset%2Fthumb%2Fshard000%2F000%2F043%2F213%2F57%2Flarge.jpg&hash=567fb65303df713238ddd54de3d625aa9a42b304)
They said banning burkhas was racist, too. :P
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 08:03:55 AM
Incidentally, isn't "Chav" racist against white lower class Brits?
No. Its just a name for a specific fashion/youth culture group.
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2011, 07:02:28 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 11, 2011, 06:40:53 AM
Still don't get the whole "Paki" thing. It's just shortened. Like "Brit". Or "Jap".
It doesn't make sense yeah, but then Jap is offensive too.
And doesn't negro just mean dark skinned or somesuch?
I guess its just the history.
negro come from the portuguese negro which roughly means dirty black thing. Soot on your feet, brackish water, etc.
More likely from the Latin niger, meaning black.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 08:31:15 AM
More likely from the Latin niger, meaning black.
Poor Pescennius Niger.
If anyone remembers a certain Not The Nine O'Cloak News sketch this discussion on the riots will remind them of it:
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/100811/clipid/100811_RIOTSDEBATE_10 (http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/100811/clipid/100811_RIOTSDEBATE_10)
Ten interweb punts for the first person to guess which one I'm referencing. :)
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 06:30:09 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 11, 2011, 03:41:06 AM
No-one would look at you and call you anything on your appearance alone.
Look at that chin. He's super slavic, and being a Slav is a bad thing.
:mad:
Quote from: HVC on August 11, 2011, 08:28:58 AM
negro come from the portuguese negro which roughly means dirty black thing. Soot on your feet, brackish water, etc.
Negro in our language means 'black', HVC. Just that. The derigatory term for blacks is 'Escarumba'.
Sometimes 'preto' is used, which also means 'black', but in a more casual way. And it wasn't (at least not recently) used as a bad word when used towards blacks.
Meanwhile, the BBC is posting e-mailed comments from readers:
Quote from: BBC
Radek in London
emails: On behalf of all the Polish builders working in London I would like to thank the rioters for creating so much work for restoration of the damages. Thanks to you, the children in Poland will have amazing Christmas!
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 11, 2011, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 11, 2011, 08:28:58 AM
negro come from the portuguese negro which roughly means dirty black thing. Soot on your feet, brackish water, etc.
Negro in our language means 'black', HVC. Just that. The derigatory term for blacks is 'Escarumba'.
only time i ever hear negro is in description of black things which are dirty/unappealing (both continental and azorean) with preto used for colour and peoples.
and around here you also hear "pao camado" as derogatory, but that's an azorean thing.
Quote from: HVC on August 11, 2011, 10:04:20 AM
only time i ever hear negro is in description of black things which are dirty/unappealing
Pitch black stuff. But even then, the colour is 'preto' or 'cor negra'.
Quote from: HVC
and around here you also hear "pao camado" as derogatory, but that's an azorean thing.
I haven't even heard of the expression 'Pão camado' in my entire life! Or would it be 'Pão Queimado?' (which I haven't ever heard, either)
Are you azorean?
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 11, 2011, 10:12:19 AM
I haven't even heard of the expression 'Pão camado' in my entire life! Or would it be 'Pão Queimado?' (which I haven't ever heard, either)
Are you azorean?
burnt stick. I can't spell in portuguese lol. Can read it though. I was born in canada but my mom is from nazare and my dad is from Lisboa. Most of the portuguese people where i grew up were azorean so i picked up a lot from them. Front what i've been told my speaking is a weird mix of pronounciation and terms from sao miguel, lisboa, and nazare.
I don't usually hear "negro" used in any negative context in Spanish. Of course its base meaning is simply "black", but beyond that it seems to have more of a positive connotation than anything else. In Argentina just about everyone has a family member they affectionately refer to as "la negra" or "el negro".
They're talking about shutting down social networking to defeat the looters. This is a good idea, and should be extended indefinitely.
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 10:48:25 AM
They're talking about shutting down social networking to defeat the looters. This is a good idea, and should be extended indefinitely.
I'm going to use this thread to organise my next looting session. They'll never expect that!
Quote from: The Larch on August 11, 2011, 06:46:56 AM
"Polaco" is, for some reason I just don't understand, used as a slur by people from the rest of Spain in general and Madrid in particular to refer to Catalonians in general and people from Barcelona in particular. If they support FC Barcelona then it's triple bonus points or something.
It has nothing to do with Poland itself, and "polaco" just means Polish.
:lol: I still get a kick out of Argies telling Gallego jokes, many of which are identical to our Polack jokes.
QuoteIn some parts of South America, AFAIK, "polaco" can be used as a catch-all term for any person of slavic origin.
We have a get-together coming up with people from Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, possibly Paraguay, and of course Argentina. I'll do an informal survey. I always like getting them started debating crap like this, anyway. At one party last year, someone got a drink thrown at them over an argument that started over the proper term for peanuts and whether lemon/lime are the same thing :)
Btw, Brazen, I found this article about Morrisey's stance on immigration. Has he said something else? Because based on what he is saying, it's really hard to consider him racist by any stretch. In fact, what he is saying is quite true. :huh:
QuoteMorrissey complains that immigration has led to the loss of Britain's identityTimes Online and Agencies
Morrissey, the former Smiths singer, has sparked controversy by claiming British identity has disappeared because the country has been "flooded" by immigrants.
The pop star, originally from Manchester, suggested that immigration was one of the reasons he would not move from his American home back to Britain.
Morrissey, 48, who has spent most of the last decade living in LA and Rome, told music magazine NME that countries like Germany still had their own identity and complained of not hearing "British accents" on the streets of Britain.
Asked whether he would move back to the UK, Morrissey, the son of Irish immigrants, said: "Britain's a terribly negative place. And it hammers people down and it pulls you back and it prevents you.
"Also, with the issue of immigration, it's very difficult because, although I don't have anything against people from other countries, the higher the influx into England the more the British identity disappears.
"So the price is enormous. If you travel to Germany, it's still absolutely Germany. If you travel to Sweden, it still has a Swedish identity. But travel to England and you have no idea where you are."
He added: "It matters because the British identity is very attractive. I grew up into it, and I find it quaint and very amusing.
"But England is a memory now. Other countries have held on to their basic identity, yet it seems to me that England was thrown away."
He agreed that immigration was enriching the British identity but added "you have to say goodbye to the Britain you once knew".
Morrissey said: "The change in England is so rapid compared to the change in any other country.
"If you walk through Knightsbridge on any bland day of the week you won't hear an English accent. You'll hear every accent under the sun apart from the British accent."
Morrissey admitted he enjoyed "the freedom to go around the world ... so you have to allow others the same freedom," adding "so I'm not sitting here saying it's a terrible thing, I'm saying it's a reality and to many people it's shocking".
In a follow-up phone interview, Morrissey told the magazine: "I just think that it could be construed that the reason I wouldn't wish to live in England is the immigration explosion.
"And that's not true at all. I am actually extremely worldly and there are other reasons why I would find England very difficult, such as the expense and the pressure."
He said: "My favourite actor is an Israeli, Lior Ashkenazi, and my favourite singer was born in Iraq and now lives in Egypt. So I'm not a part of Little Britain. And by that, I don't mean the show, obviously."
Asked about his parents moving to Britain, he said: "It's different now. Because the gates are flooded. And anybody can have access to England and join in."
He added: "You can't say, 'Everybody come into my house, sit on the bed, have what you like, do what you like.' It wouldn't work.
"Millions of people leave the country every year because they don't recognise the place, so I'm not saying anything unusual.
"If you travelled to Croatia tomorrow for instance, and walked around Zagreb hearing nothing but Dublin accents, you'd find it shocking."
He said "racism" was "silly" and "beyond reason" and that he would be "pilloried" for his comments.
But Morrissey added: "Whatever England is now, it's not what it was and it's lamentable that we've lost so much."
NME rounded on the singer, claiming his comments meant that while he was once the voice of a generation "he's certainly not speaking for us now".
Morrissey told NME: "I find racism very silly. Almost too silly to discuss. It's beyond reason. And makes no sense and is ludicrous.
"I've never heard a good argument in favour of racism."
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Uhm, no. Lemons are yellow and limes are green. :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Uhm, no. Lemons are yellow and limes are green. :huh:
I'll let someone else field this one.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 11:14:22 AM
Btw, Brazen, I found this article about Morrisey's stance on immigration. Has he said something else? Because based on what he is saying, it's really hard to consider him racist by any stretch. In fact, what he is saying is quite true. :huh:
Needs a separate thread!
Well, besides being leaving the country because immigration meant he never heard a British accent, which I'd call pretty racist anyhow, he called the Chinese a subspecies, has written some dodgy lyrics (Bengali in Platforms, National Front Disco) and said he he didn't really "think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other". That do you?
Quote from: derspiess on August 11, 2011, 10:29:08 AM
I don't usually hear "negro" used in any negative context in Spanish. Of course its base meaning is simply "black", but beyond that it seems to have more of a positive connotation than anything else. In Argentina just about everyone has a family member they affectionately refer to as "la negra" or "el negro".
You should never consider the help family.
Quote from: Brazen on August 11, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 11:14:22 AM
Btw, Brazen, I found this article about Morrisey's stance on immigration. Has he said something else? Because based on what he is saying, it's really hard to consider him racist by any stretch. In fact, what he is saying is quite true. :huh:
Needs a separate thread!
Well, besides being leaving the country because immigration meant he never heard a British accent, which I'd call pretty racist anyhow, he called the Chinese a subspecies, has written some dodgy lyrics (Bengali in Platforms, National Front Disco) and said he he didn't really "think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other". That do you?
Ok yeah that's pretty racist.
Quote from: Brazen on August 11, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Well, besides being leaving the country because immigration meant he never heard a British accent, which I'd call pretty racist anyhow, he called the Chinese a subspecies, has written some dodgy lyrics (Bengali in Platforms, National Front Disco) and said he he didn't really "think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other". That do you?
Word is on some message board he has called for genocide against most known ethnicities over the years.
Quote from: Brazen on August 11, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 11:14:22 AM
Btw, Brazen, I found this article about Morrisey's stance on immigration. Has he said something else? Because based on what he is saying, it's really hard to consider him racist by any stretch. In fact, what he is saying is quite true. :huh:
Needs a separate thread!
Well, besides being leaving the country because immigration meant he never heard a British accent, which I'd call pretty racist anyhow,
Really? Why's that racist?
Quotehe called the Chinese a subspecies,
Not especially damning, especially without context.
Quotehas written some dodgy lyrics (Bengali in Platforms, National Front Disco)
I don't listen to vegetarian music, but people write things in lyrics that they don't necessarily believe all the time.
Quoteand said he he didn't really "think, for instance, black people and white people will ever really get on or like each other". That do you?
Maybe he's right. I can certainly see a man who grew up when he did thinking those sorts of things.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Apparently, in Mexico they use
limón to refer to both lemon and lime. I think the rest of Latin America tends to differentiate the two-- usually into
limón and
lima, respectively.
Quote from: derspiess on August 11, 2011, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Apparently, in Mexico they use limón to refer to both lemon and lime. I think the rest of Latin America tends to differentiate the two-- usually into limón and lima, respectively.
I mean, they're similar, but seems like they'd be forced to differentiate "limon verde" and "limon amarillo." And maybe they do, since when I google "limon verde" I get tons of pictures of limes. :P
Wow, this is a thread on the UK being destroyed by hooligans, with several languishites under siege in their homes, and the thread gets derailed first by comic books, then by a discussion of racist terms in different languages, and now by the differences between limes and lemons.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 11, 2011, 12:21:35 PM
Wow, this is a thread on the UK being destroyed by hooligans, with several languishites under siege in their homes, and the thread gets derailed first by comic books, then by a discussion of racist terms in different languages, and now by the differences between limes and lemons.
There's a type of lime that's named after a South African racial slur. :)
That said, my main concern regarding the riots is that Brazen and the other Britons I know are safe, which they appear to be at this point in time, unless I missed something. The rest of it's just kind of distant, and a little depressing because there's nothing I can do about it short of asking why the British government can't deal with unarmed morons.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 12:09:18 PM
I mean, they're similar, but seems like they'd be forced to differentiate "limon verde" and "limon amarillo." And maybe they do, since when I google "limon verde" I get tons of pictures of limes. :P
I would imagine they ultimately do differentiate them that way when they have to. But it sounds like they'd prefer not to make the effort.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 12:23:42 PM
The rest of it's just kind of distant, and a little depressing because there's nothing I can do about it short of asking why the British government can't deal with unarmed morons.
It has occupied a lot of my attention because it's the mother country, it shatters some previously held notions about law & order in the UK, and there may be some lessons we can learn from it. That's in addition to my concern for Brit Languishites' safety, of course :)
And the fact that there has been extensive coverage of the riots but seemingly little analysis or opinion (readily available over here, anyway) has puzzled me. The most plausible analysis/opinion piece I've read so far is from Max Hastings:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html
The thing is, we did keep law and order; services still kept going, and vast swathes of the city did not experience anything. The riots did not get anywhere near the French level; and riots did not strike the same place two nights in a row. This was just an orgy of looting borne of a moment of perceived impunity. For me, a real breakdown in law and order would be something much more serious. Rather, this was a brief challenge to law and order, and the law is coming down hard in sentencing barely 48 hours after the fires were extinguished.
If you want to see a breakdown in law and order, look at the riots of the 1980s. ;)
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
No kidding. The punks have already been created in enormous numbers, and there's no educating, improving or mass-executing them.
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Transport looters to the Falklands and let them stay there for at least 5 years as punishment. ;)
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Arming your police forces isn't free.
Quote from: Legbiter on August 11, 2011, 01:59:59 PM
Transport looters to the Falklands and let them stay there for at least 5 years as punishment. ;)
Are the Falklands the UK's larger version of the US' Gitmo?? :ph34r:
Quote from: Legbiter on August 11, 2011, 01:59:59 PM
Transport looters to the Falklands and let them stay there for at least 5 years as punishment. ;)
My favoured solution that :cool:
........and not the fleshpots of Post Stanley either, that would ruin the ambience in the
Penguin Arms. No, somewhere in a remote part of West Falkland would be ideal. Who knows, after a few years they might evolve into something resembling an Australian :hmm:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Well, if you tossed some cash and luxury items at the looters, that should help quiet them down! Or else slow them down enough grabbing the goods for the police to catch them! ;)
Quote from: Legbiter on August 11, 2011, 01:59:59 PM
Transport looters to the Falklands and let them stay there for at least 5 years as punishment. ;)
I did like the part in that old man's article where he was talking wistfully about how they used to transport people.
Fuck, I want to be transported to Australia.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Arming your police forces isn't free.
The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
I'm a leftist and I think you should just call the damn army in and put portions of London under Curfew for a few days. Or a non-damned army, if they'll work. or arm the Salvation Army and send them in.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.
Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .
The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.
Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.
Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:35:58 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.
Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .
The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.
Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.
Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.
The employment rate isn't the converse of an unemployment rate, right?
That is, I can't imagine the unemployment rate is
30%. :wacko:
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
This isn't 1870 anymore. Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:35:58 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.
Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .
The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.
Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.
Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.
The employment rate isn't the converse of an unemployment rate, right?
That is, I can't imagine the unemployment rate is 30%. :wacko:
There's employed, unemployed and other. Like students and shit.
Remember unemployment rate is determined by looking at people who are LOOKING FOR WORK. This is meant to prevent classifying stay at home parents, or the idle rich, or people incapable of working, from being listed as "unemployed".
But it also means that a person who is capable of working, but merely sits on social assistance, is not counted.
Taking a look at workforce "participation rates" can be very eye opening.
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2011, 02:40:15 PM
Remember unemployment rate is determined by looking at people who are LOOKING FOR WORK. This is meant to prevent classifying stay at home parents, or the idle rich, or people incapable of working, from being listed as "unemployed".
But it also means that a person who is capable of working, but merely sits on social assistance, is not counted.
Taking a look at workforce "participation rates" can be very eye opening.
Okay, "labor participation rate" is the phrase I usually see.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 02:37:19 PM
The employment rate isn't the converse of an unemployment rate, right?
That is, I can't imagine the unemployment rate is 30%. :wacko:
No. The employment rate includes older teenagers, as well as the diabled, housewives, criminals and other people who are not looking for work. It's just the ratio of working age people (15-64) against the number of people employed.
Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly :hmm:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:44:01 PM
Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly :hmm:
RACIST
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:35:58 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.
Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .
The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.
Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.
Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.
I think 1/3 of Polish people live off farming. It's possible they are counted among the 40% which would skew the rates.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:44:01 PM
Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly :hmm:
Okay, I was just a little confused by the terminology.
I can speak English properly. :) Well, arguably.
My skills include being able to punch a chav in the face because I was raised in America and I have a delusional lack of fear of Europeans. SPONSOR ME.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:44:01 PM
Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly :hmm:
I don't know. Not every society has the same kind of economy and the same kind of jobs available. I think Britain went too much into a flexible, service and finance based economy. Such economies do not generate a lot of job for low-fliers.
All I know is this country is having to import workers to fill a lot of retail service positions (and a number of businesses have closed due to an inability to find workers for such positions).
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:44:01 PM
Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly :hmm:
I don't know. Not every society has the same kind of economy and the same kind of jobs available. I think Britain went too much into a flexible, service and finance based economy. Such economies do not generate a lot of job for low-fliers.
I'm sure that places like my hometown (Seaham) would greatly benefit from a nice big factory opening up. Seaham used to have 3 coalmines that employed 4000 workers, all 3 closed in the late 80s early 90s. That is a town of 25,000 people that suddenly lost its livelihood.
But I can't see that anyone would want to open a factory in the centre of London or Manchester...........it is simply too costly, and all the talented workers would turn their noses up at it anyway.
If I had to limit this to one cause only, I'd say it's pure greed; the people who've rioted and looted seem to know only this motivator, but it's also part of a top down process, whether it's corruption in politics or the utter lack of self-restraint shown in the top echelons of the financial services.
And from personal experience, greed and the acquisition of material things at any cost seems to have 'corrupted' plenty of people I've encountered in day to day life.
That's not to say there isn't a slight majority of decent law abiding people in this country, but the way the economic and political game is now set up, they haven't particularly benefited from the 'good times' of recent years.
The people I'm talking about are those in the 2nd, 3rd and possibly part of the 4th decile of the population, who've seen very little increase in real income over the last two decades and in many instances seeing long term declines. And there also those most affected by the rapid inflation we're now experiencing in terms of food, fuel and day to day living costs.
I believe there's a sizeable section of the US population in a similar situation.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Arming your police forces isn't free.
The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.
Er, the fact there are currently roving gangs burning and looting at will through out the UK indicates they are not being deployed when needed.
QuoteLondon (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.
So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.
Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.
The tabloid Sun newspaper wrote in its opinion page on Thursday of the "sick" society described by Prime Minister David Cameron: "The sickness starts on welfare-addicted estates where feckless parents let children run wild."
But its front-page headline told a different story about the accused: "Lifeguard, postman, hairdresser, teacher, millionaire's daughter, chef and schoolboy, 11."
The Daily Mail reported: "While the trouble has been largely blamed on feral teenagers, many of those paraded before the courts yesterday led apparently respectable lives."
The upmarket Daily Telegraph devoted its page three to the case of Laura Johnson, the 19-year-old daughter of a company director who pleaded not guilty to stealing £5,000 ($8,000) of electrical goods, under the headline: "Girl who has it all is accused of theft."
The newspaper said she lived in a converted farmhouse in the leafy London suburb of Orpington, Kent, with extensive grounds and a tennis court, had studied at one of the best-performing state schools in the country and now attends the University of Exeter.
Reporter Andrew Gilligan wrote in the Daily Telegraph: "Here in court, as David Cameron condemned the 'sickness' in parts of British society, we saw clearly, for the first time, the face of the riot: stripped of its hoods and masks, dressed in white prison T-shirts and handcuffed to burly security guards.
"It was rather different from the one we had been expecting."
He added of the defendants at Highbury Magistrates Court in north London: "Most were teenagers or in their early twenties, but a surprising number were older.
"Most interestingly of all, they were predominantly white, and many had jobs."
Most newspapers highlighted the case of Alexis Bailey, a 31-year-old learning mentor in an elementary school, who pleaded guilty to burglary with intent to steal at an electrical store in Croydon, south of London.
It was reported that Bailey surrendered to police without stealing anything.
The youngest defendant so far -- an 11-year-old boy -- also gained much attention in newspapers.
The boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The Daily Mail highlighted the cases of Barry Naine, a 42-year-old charity worker charged with burglary; postman Jeffrey Ebanks, 32, and his student nephew Jamal Ebanks, 18, allegedly caught in a car stuffed with electrical goods near a looted Croydon store.
It also reported that Jason Matthews, a 35-year-old new father arrested in a Tesco supermarket, told police he "was not one of the bad ones" and needed diapers for his baby; and that Christopher Heart, a 23-year-old scaffolder and father of two, shouted "sorry for the inconvenience" and broke down in tears after admitting burglary at a sports shop in east London.
Lifeguard Aaron Mulholland, 30, wept as he appeared in court accused of joining thieves in a cell phone shop, the Daily Mail reported.
The Sun reported that an organic chef, Fitzroy Thomas, 43, and his 47-year-old brother Ronald, denied smashing up a branch of the Nando's chicken restaurant chain.
The Metropolitan Police in London said on its website on Thursday that 401 people have been charged so far.
Greater Manchester Police said five men aged between 46 and 23 had already been jailed for their part in the disorder.
West Midlands Police said 26 people, including a 44-year-old man, had appeared before an overnight court session in relation to the disorder in Birmingham.
Huh. Seem to be less disadvantaged then some people suggest.
hmm... the upper age for ASBO's might need to be revisited when people my age are yobs.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Arming your police forces isn't free.
The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.
Er, the fact there are currently roving gangs burning and looting at will through out the UK indicates they are not being deployed when needed.
Bollocks.
There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.
Interesting Raz, though on reflection not entirely surprising.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 01:56:43 PM
The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money :lol:
Arming your police forces isn't free.
The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.
Er, the fact there are currently roving gangs burning and looting at will through out the UK indicates they are not being deployed when needed.
Bollocks.
There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.
To a large extent I agree, though I'd have favoured the use of baton rounds as soon as it became clear that the police couldn't cope, a few broken limbs and perhaps one or two 'tragedies' would have deterred and denied the looters the free range they enjoyed.
I think the gravest mistake in the whole affair was allowing the mobs, uncontested control of the streets, even if only for one or two days. It's as if the chief constable decided to withdraw from being responsible for law and order.
Frankly we've been very lucky that no one has been burned to death by the various acts of arson. Which angers me, because not taking on people who set fires is a tragedy in the making and for which almost any police weapon should be considered to counter.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
Bollocks.
There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.
Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this. To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.
I agree with you mongers, it would have been better if the cops had gone in earlier and administered some salutary beatings. But............if they had done that and nipped it in the bud.........think of all the whining about human rights that we would now be enduring.
Isn't arson on a par with murder btw? I may be out of date on this.
QuoteLondon (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.
So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.
Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.
Snip
Huh. This seems like a bizarre sci-fi story set-up about mass hysteria caused by drugs or cosmic rays. Weird. :P
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 03:58:55 PM
I agree with you mongers, it would have been better if the cops had gone in earlier and administered some salutary beatings. But............if they had done that and nipped it in the bud.........think of the all the whining about human rights that we would now be enduring.
:yes:
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
Bollocks.
There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.
Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this. To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.
I think that the police were initially inhibited by what you Americans would call "liberal opinion". Once they realised that the public were behind them things could get resolved quite quickly.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 03:59:36 PM
QuoteLondon (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.
So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.
Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.
Snip
Huh. This seems like a bizarre sci-fi story set-up about mass hysteria caused by drugs or cosmic rays. Weird. :P
sounds more like a d20 Modern campaign, only the characters got arrested by the police at the first hurdle.. I blame the GM (PM?) for being a dick.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I am pretty sure those coal mines would be out of business today anyway. Besides they were big money losers.
What is this love affair with the mining and burning of coal? It seems to crop up in Brit threads all the time.
I thought Euros were all about the clean energy and reducing emissions and all that.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 04:02:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
Bollocks.
There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.
Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this. To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.
I think that the police were initially inhibited by what you Americans would call "liberal opinion". Once they realised that the public were behind them things could get resolved quite quickly.
I didn't know the police operated on a popularity contest model. That's really asinine. You don't let crimes occur if people are simply sympathetic to it. If that was true it would be legal to simply murder people who are unpopular.
QuoteThe boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The fuck? Does it pick up trash on its own?
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2011, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I am pretty sure those coal mines would be out of business today anyway. Besides they were big money losers.
What is this love affair with the mining and burning of coal? It seems to crop up in Brit threads all the time.
I thought Euros were all about the clean energy and reducing emissions and all that.
Funny how you seem to be reading into my post stuff that wasn't ever there. :)
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 03:59:36 PM
QuoteLondon (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.
So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.
Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.
Snip
Huh. This seems like a bizarre sci-fi story set-up about mass hysteria caused by drugs or cosmic rays. Weird. :P
Not the same person, doofus.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
QuoteThe boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The fuck? Does it pick up trash on its own?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/iTouchless-13-Gallon-Square-Stainless-Steel-Touchless-Trash-Can-MX/11988036?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=11988036
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 03:59:36 PM
QuoteLondon (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.
So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.
Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.
Snip
Huh. This seems like a bizarre sci-fi story set-up about mass hysteria caused by drugs or cosmic rays. Weird. :P
"The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street" is probably the worst episode of the Twilight Zone I've seen.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 11, 2011, 04:09:53 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
QuoteThe boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The fuck? Does it pick up trash on its own?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/iTouchless-13-Gallon-Square-Stainless-Steel-Touchless-Trash-Can-MX/11988036?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=11988036
Wow! My looting fingers are twitching...........
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 11, 2011, 04:09:53 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
QuoteThe boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The fuck? Does it pick up trash on its own?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/iTouchless-13-Gallon-Square-Stainless-Steel-Touchless-Trash-Can-MX/11988036?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=11988036
For the Bubble Boy who has everything.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 11, 2011, 04:09:53 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
QuoteThe boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The fuck? Does it pick up trash on its own?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/iTouchless-13-Gallon-Square-Stainless-Steel-Touchless-Trash-Can-MX/11988036?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=11988036
For the Bubble Boy who has everything.
I hope you never go through the Sharper Image website. You would go into commie shock.
I can't imagine much worse to loot than a trash can, even if it did cost $80. By their nature, they're large and somewhat awkward, and what do you do with it when you get it home? I guess you can try to fence it, but that's dangerous, and the alternative is "wow, awesome, I got a trash can."
At least burning a car looks like it would be fun.
Edit: although, maybe you can put other things you loot into the trash can. 13 gallons is a lot of cell phones and video games.
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2011, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?
I am pretty sure those coal mines would be out of business today anyway. Besides they were big money losers.
What is this love affair with the mining and burning of coal? It seems to crop up in Brit threads all the time.
I thought Euros were all about the clean energy and reducing emissions and all that.
Funny how you seem to be reading into my post stuff that wasn't ever there. :)
I am sorry I just presumed by mentioning Mrs. Thatcher you were referring to her breaking the Coal mine Union and closing down all those mines thus impoverishing the significant parts of the country dependent on that industry. Dick even referred to that specifically.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 04:02:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
Bollocks.
There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.
Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this. To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.
I think that the police were initially inhibited by what you Americans would call "liberal opinion". Once they realised that the public were behind them things could get resolved quite quickly.
I didn't know the police operated on a popularity contest model. That's really asinine. You don't let crimes occur if people are simply sympathetic to it. If that was true it would be legal to simply murder people who are unpopular.
I at least partially agree with you. Sometimes the cops, especially the Met, behave like a branch of the social services department.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:19:01 PM
I can't imagine much worse to loot than a trash can, even if it did cost $80. By their nature, they're large and somewhat awkward, and what do you do with it when you get it home? I guess you can try to fence it, but that's dangerous, and the alternative is "wow, awesome, I got a trash can."
At least burning a car looks like it would be fun.
Edit: although, maybe you can put other things you loot into the trash can. 13 gallons is a lot of cell phones and video games.
All the good stuff got looted already.
For those interested, the use of baton rounds/ "plastic/rubber bullets" in Northern Ireland was quite extensive, in 35 years over 125,000 were fired and only 17 people killed.
Interesting article here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/baton.htm (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/baton.htm)
Baton rounds have actually been used in mainland UK in recent years, 50 rounds fired, 94% of which hit their target, didn't know they were that accurate.
Whatever happened to the human pain ray?
I want a jewel-encrusted trash can. :(
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:26:25 PM
Whatever happened to the human pain ray?
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/nation-world-news/nonlethal-heat-zapping-weapon-awaiting-use-1155026.html
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:26:25 PM
Whatever happened to the human pain ray?
He still posts from time to time.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
QuoteThe boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.
The fuck? Does it pick up trash on its own?
no, the kid, a soon to be father needs the £50 trashcan to go with his C$2,000 stroller.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 11, 2011, 04:28:58 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:26:25 PM
Whatever happened to the human pain ray?
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/nation-world-news/nonlethal-heat-zapping-weapon-awaiting-use-1155026.html
Just like the Atlantic Fleet in the Falklands. :(
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:53:47 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 11, 2011, 04:28:58 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 04:26:25 PM
Whatever happened to the human pain ray?
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/nation-world-news/nonlethal-heat-zapping-weapon-awaiting-use-1155026.html
Just like the Atlantic Fleet in the Falklands. :(
The brits were lucky to get our newer Sidewinders.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 09, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 09, 2011, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
I wonder if the Brits are just going to admit their military is incapable of taking care of this and ask the US to intervene.
We could, :cough: Paras :cough: but most Americans*, especially CdM would get their knickers in a twist.
*Ed Anger an honourable exception.
edit:
I would post a photo of Paras doing internal security in N.I, but unfortunately most on the web seem to be of Bloody Sunday. :(
I used to work with two ex-Paras, top blokes.
I bet Seedy would love to see MAricans knocking heads. I know I'd love to see an MP battalion with non-lethal deterrents fucking up your Chavs. :bowler:
ACTIVATE HEAT RAY AND SONIC WEAPONS!
I hate MPs.
The only thing they do if give you tickets when you drive too fast on post.
Over there they only guard the hajjs we capture.
They barely leave the FOBs, and when they do they do so in big convoys.
My old man hated MPs too. If one of his men fucked up he would go out of his way to deal with it without involving them.
Fear the Snowdrops.
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
This isn't 1870 anymore. Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.
This reminds me of something a history lecturer of mine said. The Russian Empire was quite gentle with its subject peoples compared to some. When in 1905 some Finns staged a protest against the Russian government, they were dispersed by cossacks with whips. The British Empire would have sent in the machine guns. :bowler:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 05:26:11 PM
My old man hated MPs too. If one of his men fucked up he would go out of his way to deal with it without involving them.
Most fuckups probably don't need an act of Parliament to be resolved. :yes:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on August 11, 2011, 01:59:59 PM
Transport looters to the Falklands and let them stay there for at least 5 years as punishment. ;)
My favoured solution that :cool:
........and not the fleshpots of Post Stanley either...
:lol:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 11, 2011, 02:12:37 PMWho knows, after a few years they might evolve into something resembling an Australian :hmm:
I say it's worth a try at least.
Quote from: mongers on August 11, 2011, 04:25:53 PM
For those interested, the use of baton rounds/ "plastic/rubber bullets" in Northern Ireland was quite extensive, in 35 years over 125,000 were fired and only 17 people killed.
Interesting article here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/baton.htm (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/baton.htm)
Baton rounds have actually been used in mainland UK in recent years, 50 rounds fired, 94% of which hit their target, didn't know they were that accurate.
Can you fit them with a proximity fuse?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 11, 2011, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 11, 2011, 04:25:53 PM
For those interested, the use of baton rounds/ "plastic/rubber bullets" in Northern Ireland was quite extensive, in 35 years over 125,000 were fired and only 17 people killed.
Interesting article here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/baton.htm (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/baton.htm)
Baton rounds have actually been used in mainland UK in recent years, 50 rounds fired, 94% of which hit their target, didn't know they were that accurate.
Can you fit them with a proximity fuse?
either that or the target was "one of that big mob of yobs over there"
Quote from: Solmyr on August 11, 2011, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
This isn't 1870 anymore. Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.
This reminds me of something a history lecturer of mine said. The Russian Empire was quite gentle with its subject peoples compared to some. When in 1905 some Finns staged a protest against the Russian government, they were dispersed by cossacks with whips. The British Empire would have sent in the machine guns. :bowler:
I don't recall the British ever machinegunning Scots.
Besides, they wouldn't be butchering Martinus because of his Polackosity, but rather his faggishness.
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 07:28:28 PM
I don't recall the British ever machinegunning Scots.
Besides, they wouldn't be butchering Martinus because of his Polackosity, but rather his faggishness.
The scots were subdued at Cullodden. No need for Maxim guns.
Edit: Or dreadnaughts.
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2011, 08:02:11 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on August 11, 2011, 07:57:00 AM
Where is "Jap" offensive?
Most places isn't it?
You're confusing "Jap" with "Nip". Or maybe "zipperhead" or "buckethead", but that's more of a Vietnamese thing.
Quote from: Solmyr on August 11, 2011, 05:37:23 PM
This reminds me of something a history lecturer of mine said. The Russian Empire was quite gentle with its subject peoples compared to some.
Ah - must be Professor Jackov.
My London colleagues said they were happy to be here in New York - although the one said she had hoped to move her car closer to the riots as she thought it was worth more torched than unharmed. :D
Quote from: Viking on August 11, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 07:28:28 PM
I don't recall the British ever machinegunning Scots.
Besides, they wouldn't be butchering Martinus because of his Polackosity, but rather his faggishness.
The scots were subdued at Cullodden. No need for Maxim guns.
Edit: Or dreadnaughts.
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
Solway Moss :wub:
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
I imagine that impresses the people of South Carolina.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
I imagine that impresses the people of South Carolina.
We live in a globalized world.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
I imagine that impresses the people of South Carolina.
We live in a globalized world.
sadly. damn furriners.
Ohio is just as foreign to me...really more foreign.
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2011, 08:57:35 PM
Ohio is just as foreign to me...really more foreign.
Racist.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 09:06:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2011, 08:57:35 PM
Ohio is just as foreign to me...really more foreign.
Racist.
Racist towards methheads and hilljacks? nah.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
I imagine that impresses the people of South Carolina.
We live in a globalized world.
I bet that impresses the people of South Carolina as well.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 09:10:49 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
I imagine that impresses the people of South Carolina.
We live in a globalized world.
I bet that impresses the people of South Carolina as well.
It does. I can speak intelligently about Quebec, for example--by my count, one third of all Quebecois are nihilist homosexuals, one third don't have fire discipline, and one third lives in France.
Chester Arthur = worst President ever
Quote from: HVC on August 11, 2011, 10:22:38 AM
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 11, 2011, 10:12:19 AM
I haven't even heard of the expression 'Pão camado' in my entire life! Or would it be 'Pão Queimado?' (which I haven't ever heard, either)
Are you azorean?
burnt stick. I can't spell in portuguese lol. Can read it though. I was born in canada but my mom is from nazare and my dad is from Lisboa. Most of the portuguese people where i grew up were azorean so i picked up a lot from them. Front what i've been told my speaking is a weird mix of pronounciation and terms from sao miguel, lisboa, and nazare.
An accent that has to be awful. :D Quick, get on the plane for the next Languish meet in Europe!
Quote from: Warspite on August 11, 2011, 01:40:40 PM
The thing is, we did keep law and order; services still kept going, and vast swathes of the city did not experience anything. The riots did not get anywhere near the French level; and riots did not strike the same place two nights in a row. This was just an orgy of looting borne of a moment of perceived impunity. For me, a real breakdown in law and order would be something much more serious. Rather, this was a brief challenge to law and order, and the law is coming down hard in sentencing barely 48 hours after the fires were extinguished.
If you want to see a breakdown in law and order, look at the riots of the 1980s. ;)
No people killed in the French riots indeed and no trouble in the Parisian city centre. Just 10,000 burned cars in the lousy suburbs and I wasn't under siege in Paris unlike Brazen in London. Some RER/S-Bahn/whatever non-existing English equivalent disruption so I had to take the Métro instead for a while.
How dare you tell the Brits that their country is more disorganized and lawless than France? That's the only thing keeping them alive. :P
We have chucked resources at these rioters. But violent young men will always be with us, so let's not panic
Politically committed people of very different beliefs can take exactly the same events and discover in them a precise vindication of their own original worldview. And so it has been this week. A certain kind of rightwinger fits the riots into the pattern of moral and social decline that she imagines has afflicted British society since the 1950s: multiculturalism, soft policing, family breakdown (ie, sexual tolerance and feminism), liberal teaching, welfare dependency and immigration are all part of this elaborately imagined world.
In the other ideological corner the causes are alienated youth, "cuts", police harassment, unemployment, poverty, tuition fee increases (which, if the poverty explanation holds, none of the rioters would have to pay), and neoliberal economics, which allows bankers to earn bonuses usually described as "obscene". Remarkably, a Guardian reporter on the fringe of a riot even found "a bystander" to weave reaction to the Iraq war into the reasons for the looting.
Not that either position is entirely wrong all the time. But none of us escapes our prejudices easily. Vicars blame materialism. And I, pursuing past battles against the civil liberties lobby, rail against identity-obscuring head and facewear and am inclined to demand more CCTV and a rethink of the scrapping of identity cards.
But imagine that we came to this innocent of all beliefs. Suppose we looked at events since Saturday and just asked the basic questions of who, what, where, when and why.
So first, who? And how many people actually took part in rioting, looting or violence since Saturday? I've been wondering about this since I accidentally stumbled on the original demonstration outside Tottenham police station that was supposed to have been the birth moment of the Week of Shame. Actually standing in Tottenham High Road, blocking the way, I'd estimate no more than 100 people. Standing in doorways and on pavements, I'd say another 100 or so. Bear in mind that I'd just come from a Spurs pre-season friendly match attended by 25,000.
The highest realistic estimate I've seen for rioters in one place was 200, and pictures of that event suggest that it was too high. It also seems that one must make a practical distinction (if not a moral one) between rioters and looters — people who entered shops already broken into to steal goods. There is some evidence of the same people moving from one location to another. With the number of arrests at about 500, I seriously wonder if many more than a few thousand people were involved in rioting.
This is important because it tells us two things. First, we are not dealing with a mass criminal insurrection. And second, that a remarkably small number of people, if they are mobile and use surprise, can cause mayhem out of all proportion to their numbers. I was told this by Tony Blair once, in the context of terrorism, and it's true.
Even so, who are these few? They're mostly (but not entirely) teenage boys from poorer areas, black from black areas, white from white areas, the same demographic as that for gang violence, street robbery and vandalism. In other words, their actions are a spillover into the "nicer" world of what is already going on in theirs. (The links between pre-existing criminality and looting are suggested by reports of vans and cars turning up as stores are emptied, and by gunfights over looted goods.) This is important too, because it simply isn't true that they have, in the past few years, been affected by cuts, lack of attention to their education or lack of investment in their areas. It is pretty likely that they attend (or play truant from) newly rebuilt schools, with highly motivated teachers who put significant emphasis on citizenship and social responsibility. They will often return to estates that have been improved out of all recognition since the riots of the 1980s. They are very much less likely than their fathers to have suffered from police harassment and violence. Far from their being forgotten and marginalised, a lot of time and effort has been spent on them and their peers. What we haven't managed to do is to persuade them into qualifications, or unglamorous starter jobs. It's not for lack of trying.
Then the "what" and the "where". The looting has suggested to many that this is a form of self-Sherwooding, a white-goods redistribution from rich to poor. Especially as some of the on-street self-justification has been of the "we're poor, you're rich" variety. Well, what would you say if you were a slightly guilty looter? Intercepted looters' messages, not designed for third-party scrutiny, seem to show few such heroic inclinations.
And there's another clue. While some have clearly gone for upmarket stores, others have been completely undiscriminating about which shops they've emptied. And while a few symbolic targets have been selected for vandalism and arson, most had no symbolic value at all. In other words it is not what they represent — but what the act of destruction represents.
This, and that the ostensible cause of the rioting (the shooting of Mark Duggan) had just about no resonance outside one area in North London, tells us a lot about the motivation. In short, at the weekend — the word spread by 24-hour news, social media and messaging — a section of society discovered that they could do something and that the something they could do was a lot of bad fun. They could go on the streets, create havoc, make money, be violent, get drunk, behave as if they were the tyrant kings of an area — the mini-Sopranos of Enfield or Croydon, the gangstas of Chalk Farm — and there would be no immediate retribution (immediate being the only kind of anything that means something to a 16-year old boy). They had the thing that in their own lives they lack — power. Just as a gang of black-flag anarchists has when it stones a police line into retreat or — before Heysel — football hooligans had when they "took" the other side's end and sent the opposition into flight.
Because, yes, we have been here before, with a relatively small number of young men, high on violence and low on personal skills, finding a way to drive the rest of us mad. This analysis is both gloomy and hopeful. It suggests that, short of a world war to send them to, difficult and violent young men will always be with us. The numbers matter, of course, and we can and should whittle away at them with firmness. But we won't eradicate them altogether, and if improvement is always slow and adapting difficult, we can — of course — make things worse quickly, by reacting with impatience, prejudice and stupidity.
Column by David Aaronovitch in the Times. I was out of teh country until Tuesday night so don't know if his estimates of the numbers involved are at all accurate.
It seems to follow my original assessment (people behaving badly because they can get away with it) but that doesn't necessarily explain the perps who do not quite fit the profile of a "juvenile male". Writing them all off as sociopaths doesn't exactly help either, because it doesn't explain why such a small group of sociopaths managed to wreak such disproportionate havoc - it is not some third world country but one of the richest countries in the world. Something went wrong. "Chavs will be chavs" doesn't quite cut it.
I'm not too sure about his numbers Gups, over 1600 have been arrested so far, though that is a national figure.
The Guardian has been collating details of those charged :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/aug/11/uk-riots-magistrates-court-list
The average age of the rioters seems to be older than many commentators are making out. The Daily Mail, for example, is in paroxysms over some 11-year old kid who looted a bottle of wine. No doubt the child in question is a ghastly urchin who needs some strong guidance, but I can't get het up about it myself, he saw an opportunity and took it because he had no moral training, at only 11 he is not a lost cause. I'm willing to make excuses for those under 18, we deny them full citizenship rights and responsibilities for good reason; but it seems that about 80% of the rioters were aged 18 or more, just saying they are young doesn't cut it, they should know how to behave by then.
Another disturbance round our way last night. Blues and twos, chopper and about 15 police officers charging down the end of the road. One part of me hopes it was a dawn raid on a looter, the other half hopes the looters weren't that local.
In other news, it makes me feel very old to read of 26 year old looters and think, "I was married with a mortgage and running my own IT consultancy when I was 26." No excuse for the primary school teacher either, they earn far more than me.
Gups, Aaronovitch's analysis seems about right for what I witnessed in Enfield, though I don't put the arrival of cars and vans down to pre-existing gangs, just that today's feckless noodle-armed yoof are too lazy to carry their TVs and trainers home.
Are you people still rioting? What the hell? Even the negroes at Watts and Compton managed to go home for dinner.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2011, 04:24:59 AM
Are you people still rioting? What the hell? Even the negroes at Watts and Compton managed to go home for dinner.
No, you can't move for coppers. Like I said I suspect this was a police raid.
In other local news the Sony warehouse in Enfield that looters set fire to on Monday is still burning and is likely to for another two days. It stinks as you go past on the train. It's apparently badly affected the UK's independent music production.
There's talk of taking away benefits and council housing from rioters who can appeal under human rights legislation AND local authorities might be obliged to rehouse them... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Solmyr on August 11, 2011, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
This isn't 1870 anymore. Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.
This reminds me of something a history lecturer of mine said. The Russian Empire was quite gentle with its subject peoples compared to some. When in 1905 some Finns staged a protest against the Russian government, they were dispersed by cossacks with whips. The British Empire would have sent in the machine guns. :bowler:
Finland is hardly representative of the Russian empire.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 11, 2011, 03:37:38 PM
The Sun reported that an organic chef, Fitzroy Thomas, 43, and his 47-year-old brother Ronald, denied smashing up a branch of the Nando's chicken restaurant chain.
Well, that was obviously just a question of taste :P
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 04:34:02 AM
There's talk of taking away benefits and council housing from rioters who can appeal under human rights legislation AND local authorities might be obliged to rehouse them... :rolleyes:
There's nothing in the ECHR which gives a right to housing. There is a duty on local authorities to try to house people who are homeless, particularly if they have children. This predates the Human Rights act by some decades.
I think we need to consider some of the interpretations of the HRA and if we need to derogare from some of the rights in relation to law enforcement but rights to welfare and housing have nothing to do with it. Of course that won't stop the Telegraph and Mail blaming the HRA for everything.
Quote from: Gups on August 12, 2011, 04:44:46 AM
There's nothing in the ECHR which gives a right to housing. There is a duty on local authorities to try to house people who are homeless, particularly if they have children. This predates the Human Rights act by some decades.
I think we need to consider some of the interpretations of the HRA and if we need to derogare from some of the rights in relation to law enforcement but rights to welfare and housing have nothing to do with it. Of course that won't stop the Telegraph and Mail blaming the HRA for everything.
Ah OK.
In the Metro today there is a Q&A (page 4 of the e-edition, not online sadly):
Q: Can tenants claim protection from eviction under the HRA?
A: yes. Tenants facing eviction often cite the 'right to respect for private and family life' in a bid to keep their homes, or the 'right to a fair trial' if they believe the proceedings have not been handled correctly. However, if the local authority or housing association has followed the correct procedure judges are generally reluctant to uphold the claims.
http://e-edition.metro.co.uk/2011/08/12/ (http://e-edition.metro.co.uk/2011/08/12/)
Yep. That a pretty fair assessment. You always know that the opposition knows they've lost the case when they start to plead the Human Rights Act.
I worked for a local authority in the late 90s and early 2000s straddling when the HRA came into force. My job was to try to get people evicted for rent arrears (the glamour!). The human rights act made absolutely no difference whatsoever. The biggest factor was the judge you got.
It seems that particular HRA right is more effective at preventing the publication of the names of premiership players who can't keep it in their pants than anything else :glare:
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 04:28:54 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2011, 04:24:59 AM
Are you people still rioting? What the hell? Even the negroes at Watts and Compton managed to go home for dinner.
No, you can't move for coppers. Like I said I suspect this was a police raid.
In other local news the Sony warehouse in Enfield that looters set fire to on Monday is still burning and is likely to for another two days. It stinks as you go past on the train. It's apparently badly affected the UK's independent music production.
Steve Jobs is moving towards global dominance. He already has more money than the US government, he is sueing the living shit out of Samsung and has crippled "physical" music industry.
Quote from: Tyr on August 12, 2011, 04:39:50 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 11, 2011, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
This isn't 1870 anymore. Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.
This reminds me of something a history lecturer of mine said. The Russian Empire was quite gentle with its subject peoples compared to some. When in 1905 some Finns staged a protest against the Russian government, they were dispersed by cossacks with whips. The British Empire would have sent in the machine guns. :bowler:
Finland is hardly representative of the Russian empire.
Yeah. What a load of bollocks. Russians were one of the most brutal ones, especially during the 19th century. Poles had some of the best comparison here, living under three different empires for over a century, and the Russian part was considered to have by far the worst political conditions. Austrians were the most benevolent, and Prussians were strict but recognized the rule of law. Russians were lawless and brutal thugs.
Yes, I can recall reading about Austria-Hungary and it's minority problems, the Poles were not much of a problem despite their large numbers because there were visible unattractive alternatives.
Tsarist Russia was much gentler than the Soviet Union of course, though that sets the bar rather low.
The Facebook page of the Enfield rioter. All you need to know, really.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall)
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 07:40:04 AM
The Facebook page of the Enfield rioter. All you need to know, really.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall)
QuoteOther
I <3 CHICKEN, Cathall E.11, when your in a relationship, everyone adds your bf/gf..WHYY?, Girl:Bbz dnt tell any1 about this. Boy:'of course' (NXT DAY) Man Caned Dat!, LOOOOOL: Laugh out out out out out Loud :/, Your So Gassed'KMT ; YOUR THE CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING !!, I DONT GIVE A FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKK, Vybz Kartel, Oreo, Why can't people spell when they create a fan page??, Wankin Off, But Are You Gonna Dildoe??, Going Swimming But Are You Wearin Speedos!?!?!?, Official Mixtape Awards, more guys have been in out and out of her than public transport fam!, The chinese people who sells pirate DVD's down at leyton Mills ASDA!and 2 more
wut?
:bleeding:
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 07:40:04 AM
The Facebook page of the Enfield rioter. All you need to know, really.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall)
is she the rich chick?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 12, 2011, 07:44:22 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 07:40:04 AM
The Facebook page of the Enfield rioter. All you need to know, really.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall)
QuoteOther
I <3 CHICKEN, Cathall E.11, when your in a relationship, everyone adds your bf/gf..WHYY?, Girl:Bbz dnt tell any1 about this. Boy:'of course' (NXT DAY) Man Caned Dat!, LOOOOOL: Laugh out out out out out Loud :/, Your So Gassed'KMT ; YOUR THE CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING !!, I DONT GIVE A FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKK, Vybz Kartel, Oreo, Why can't people spell when they create a fan page??, Wankin Off, But Are You Gonna Dildoe??, Going Swimming But Are You Wearin Speedos!?!?!?, Official Mixtape Awards, more guys have been in out and out of her than public transport fam!, The chinese people who sells pirate DVD's down at leyton Mills ASDA!and 2 more
wut?
So beemo's in Enfield now?
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2011, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 07:40:04 AM
The Facebook page of the Enfield rioter. All you need to know, really.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall)
is she the rich chick?
No, she is the one who volunteered to be an "Olympic Ambassador" :lol:
I am utterly shocked by the waves of dumbness just storming into my face from that page. Of course I cant understand half of what she is writing, but, ugh.
If at least 10% of your population is like that, you are fucked.
Oh shit.
QuoteIPCC say man was arrested at Northwick Park tube station in possession of offensive weapon and drugs and became seriously ill shortly after. Appeals for calm amid heightened tensions in Northwick Park. IPCC working quickly to establish details of arrest incident.
"Arrest incident" generally means he died when they sat on him after he wouldn't drop his weapon.
IPCC = Independent Police Complaints Committee
He's not dead yet. Form the IPCC site:
QuoteThe Independent Police Complaints Commission is investigating the circumstances surrounding an incident in which a man became seriously ill in British Transport Police custody.
The 24 year-old man was arrested by BTP officers at Northwick Park Underground Station at approximately 14.50pm Wednesday afternoon (10.8.11) and taken to Wembley Park Police Station Custody Suite. While in custody he became ill and was taken to hospital, where he remains in a serious condition.
The incident was referred to the IPCC on Wednesday evening and an independent investigation was begun. Investigators have recovered the CCTV from the custody suite and will also be checking for CCTV from the train and Northwick Park station.
Commissioner Sarah Green, who will oversee the investigation, said:
"We have met with members of the man's family to discuss our role and our investigation will seek answers to the important questions they no doubt have."
The investigation will look at what happened when officers first came into contact with the man through to his time in the custody suite, the cause of his illness and whether the police or custody staff could have taken any action to prevent that cause or seek medical assistance earlier.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 08:15:21 PM
Scots nationalists hate it when you bring up Culloden.
I bring it up whenever I can.
Scots nationalists try to deny the fact that their history is really just the long struggle of Scots to defeat their arch enemies...which of course are other Scots.
Culloden was actually a great example of that.
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 08:08:48 AM
Oh shit.
QuoteIPCC say man was arrested at Northwick Park tube station in possession of offensive weapon and drugs and became seriously ill shortly after. Appeals for calm amid heightened tensions in Northwick Park. IPCC working quickly to establish details of arrest incident.
"Arrest incident" generally means he died when they sat on him after he wouldn't drop his weapon.
IPCC = Independent Police Complaints Committee
[Languish attitude]can I buy the popcorns for evening TV?[/Languish attitude]
I am sorry, truth is I am rather disturbed by the whole thing. Not "only" because I know a couple of you guys from there, but also that while I have never had any illusions about the British lower classes, it is unbelievable to me that such sheer greed and lack of respect for society can / is allowed to surface so violently there.
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2011, 09:14:23 AM
[Languish attitude]can I buy the popcorns for evening TV?[/Languish attitude]
Well, can I?
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2011, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 08:08:48 AM
Oh shit.
QuoteIPCC say man was arrested at Northwick Park tube station in possession of offensive weapon and drugs and became seriously ill shortly after. Appeals for calm amid heightened tensions in Northwick Park. IPCC working quickly to establish details of arrest incident.
"Arrest incident" generally means he died when they sat on him after he wouldn't drop his weapon.
IPCC = Independent Police Complaints Committee
[Languish attitude]can I buy the popcorns for evening TV?[/Languish attitude]
I am sorry, truth is I am rather disturbed by the whole thing. Not "only" because I know a couple of you guys from there, but also that while I have never had any illusions about the British lower classes, it is unbelievable to me that such sheer greed and lack of respect for society can / is allowed to surface so violently there.
But as we're seeing, this isn't just the "lower classes" rioting.
Quote from: Barrister on August 12, 2011, 09:32:57 AM
But as we're seeing, this isn't just the "lower classes" rioting.
yeah, which makes the whole thing all the worse
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 12, 2011, 07:44:22 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 07:40:04 AM
The Facebook page of the Enfield rioter. All you need to know, really.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=776392700&sk=wall)
QuoteOther
I <3 CHICKEN, Cathall E.11, when your in a relationship, everyone adds your bf/gf..WHYY?, Girl:Bbz dnt tell any1 about this. Boy:'of course' (NXT DAY) Man Caned Dat!, LOOOOOL: Laugh out out out out out Loud :/, Your So Gassed'KMT ; YOUR THE CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING !!, I DONT GIVE A FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKK, Vybz Kartel, Oreo, Why can't people spell when they create a fan page??, Wankin Off, But Are You Gonna Dildoe??, Going Swimming But Are You Wearin Speedos!?!?!?, Official Mixtape Awards, more guys have been in out and out of her than public transport fam!, The chinese people who sells pirate DVD's down at leyton Mills ASDA!and 2 more
wut?
Sounds like something Vicky Pollard would say.
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2011, 07:52:07 AM
I am utterly shocked by the waves of dumbness just storming into my face from that page. Of course I cant understand half of what she is writing, but, ugh.
If at least 10% of your population is like that, you are fucked.
I think more than 10% of their population is like that, and the same goes for every other nation in the world.
To quote Stanislaw Lem, "I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet."
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2011, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 08:08:48 AM
Oh shit.
QuoteIPCC say man was arrested at Northwick Park tube station in possession of offensive weapon and drugs and became seriously ill shortly after. Appeals for calm amid heightened tensions in Northwick Park. IPCC working quickly to establish details of arrest incident.
"Arrest incident" generally means he died when they sat on him after he wouldn't drop his weapon.
IPCC = Independent Police Complaints Committee
[Languish attitude]can I buy the popcorns for evening TV?[/Languish attitude]
I am sorry, truth is I am rather disturbed by the whole thing. Not "only" because I know a couple of you guys from there, but also that while I have never had any illusions about the British lower classes, it is unbelievable to me that such sheer greed and lack of respect for society can / is allowed to surface so violently there.
I seem to recall your neonazis staging a similarly violent riot few years ago against the socialist government.
I think your shock at the mediocrity of human condition is misplaced. Most humans are scum. That's why we gave the state an exclusive right to use force in the first place.
Quote from: Martinus on August 12, 2011, 10:51:27 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2011, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Brazen on August 12, 2011, 08:08:48 AM
Oh shit.
QuoteIPCC say man was arrested at Northwick Park tube station in possession of offensive weapon and drugs and became seriously ill shortly after. Appeals for calm amid heightened tensions in Northwick Park. IPCC working quickly to establish details of arrest incident.
"Arrest incident" generally means he died when they sat on him after he wouldn't drop his weapon.
IPCC = Independent Police Complaints Committee
[Languish attitude]can I buy the popcorns for evening TV?[/Languish attitude]
I am sorry, truth is I am rather disturbed by the whole thing. Not "only" because I know a couple of you guys from there, but also that while I have never had any illusions about the British lower classes, it is unbelievable to me that such sheer greed and lack of respect for society can / is allowed to surface so violently there.
I seem to recall your neonazis staging a similarly violent riot few years ago against the socialist government.
I think your shock at the mediocrity of human condition is misplaced. Most humans are scum. That's why we gave the state an exclusive right to use force in the first place.
That doesn't match with your Lem quote.
Most humans are fine. Only a small minority are scum. This just shows how a small minority can cause big problems for the rest of us.
Most are scum, but few are motivated enough to show the world what scum they really are. They prefer to keep it at home, as it were.
Quote from: Barrister on August 12, 2011, 10:59:47 AM
That doesn't match with your Lem quote.
Most humans are fine. Only a small minority are scum. This just shows how a small minority can cause big problems for the rest of us.
Marty's views on who is scum is pretty famously liberal though.
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Quote from: Martinus on August 12, 2011, 10:51:27 AM
I think your shock at the mediocrity of human condition is misplaced. Most humans are scum. That's why we gave the state an exclusive right to use force in the first place.
a few bullet points:
-as I described, my shock was to see this kind of thing being allowed to happen in the UK, not the existence of such attitude
-the 2006 thing was purely political, the only thing which was looted was the canteen of the state TV building. Plus once the initial surprise wore off of them, the police punched back hard.
46 pages. I haven't been paying much attention. Can someone sum up what is actually going on?
Quote from: Berkut on August 12, 2011, 11:17:50 AM
46 pages. I haven't been paying much attention. Can someone sum up what is actually going on?
London is the new Detroit.
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2011, 11:18:49 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 12, 2011, 11:17:50 AM
46 pages. I haven't been paying much attention. Can someone sum up what is actually going on?
London is the new Detroit.
Worse. Has anyone suggested preventing IM communication in Detroit?
Quote from: Berkut on August 12, 2011, 11:17:50 AM
46 pages. I haven't been paying much attention. Can someone sum up what is actually going on?
Drug dealer/nice family man (depending on who you ask) shot at police/was shot unarmed (latter seems, now, more likely) by armed police.
Family and friends stage protest in Tottenham (poor area of north London). Officer in charge of the station in Tottenham refuses to meet family. Apparently, gang members related to the dead chap are also in the protest.
Protest passes peacefully until, apparently, some police start battering a black youth. Protest turns violent. Tottenham smashed up. Some buildings on the High Street are burnt down.
Day after, family of dead fellow call for calm and insist they do not want this becoming an issue of race, but complain that police have treated them rather badly. Police withdraw allegation that dead chap shot first. Initial ballistics results show both bullets were police issue. Gun was found, but in a sock (ie unused).
Violence kicks off in Enfield (mixed but generally middle class area of north London. Not known for simmering discontent), looting of shops. Brixton (sight of one of the UK's worst riots in modern times) also kicks off. Quickly obvious that looters are of mixed race, so the racial dimension falls of people's analytical radar (ie newspaper op-ed pages). Police accused of not going in hard enough; they seem to be following their usual method in such situations of trying to let the situation defuse itself somewhat.
Violence then spreads to other parts of London - Hackney (generally poor area with significant hipster population), Clapham (once poor now gentrified area), Notting Hill (full of Americans who loved the film), Colliers Wood (riot damage was an improvement, tbh), and a bunch of other districts. IT is clear that a lot of looting is going on and that the rioters are coordinating sudden gatherings via telecommunications technology (mostly Blackberry Messenger). Police are very stretched to respond to all these incidents of disorder. Rioters observed reacting to police presence by buggering off to loot somewhere else.
Next day, 16,000 police turn up in London after the Prime Minister flies back from holiday
to take all the credit steady the nation's nerves. London quiet, but other cities in the UK have incidents of looting and arson.
Next day, rain dampens things (ho ho ho) and no serious incidents reported. The Man starts laying the smackdown as 24-hour courts start a conveyor belt of charging and sentencing.
Britons turn on themselves in violent introspection, offering a all-you-can-eat buffet selection of permissive factors. They can be summarised thusly:
- Broken society. Parents are the problem
- Consumerism. We give these kids ideals of wealth and ownership they can't meet
- Tories. The Cuts(tm) are destroying the fabric of this country
- Poverty. These kids feel they have no way out or up
- Police cuts. The Cuts(tm) are destroying the fabric of law enforcement
- Police. The Police didn't use baton rounds/water cannon/grapeshot soon enough
- The Guardian. Something is wrong, and it's Margaret Thatcher's fault
- Ann Coulter. Britain is addicted to welfare and has become a nation of slovenly libruls
- Arsenal. Arsene Wenger simply hasn't strengthened the squad for this season's title challenge.
I hope that helps.
Quote from: Warspite on August 12, 2011, 11:55:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 12, 2011, 11:17:50 AM
46 pages. I haven't been paying much attention. Can someone sum up what is actually going on?
Drug dealer/nice family man (depending on who you ask) shot at police/was shot ...
I hope that helps.
POTM :D
Quote from: Warspite on August 12, 2011, 11:55:46 AM
- Arsenal. Arsene Wenger simply hasn't strengthened the squad for this season's title challenge.
I hope that helps.
Since the riots started in Tottenham Wenger's inability to replace Nasri and Fabregas should be causes for celebration, especially since Modric isn't going to my end of town. (yay, go Chelsea!!!)(cmon Tamas, support me on this...)
England declared at 710-7 in the 3rd Test against India at Edgbaston. Cook got 294. India are now 10-1 in their 2nd innings and trail by 480 runs.
Scoring in cricket makes absolutely no sense to me.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 12, 2011, 12:36:41 PM
Scoring in cricket makes absolutely no sense to me.
It's a tired old meme, but I'm sure you meant to say...
Quote from: Barrister on August 12, 2011, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 12, 2011, 12:36:41 PM
Scoring in cricket makes absolutely no sense to me.
It's a tired old meme, but I'm sure you meant to say...
he who enjoys curling should not cast the first stone :contract:
Quote from: HVC on August 12, 2011, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 12, 2011, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 12, 2011, 12:36:41 PM
Scoring in cricket makes absolutely no sense to me.
It's a tired old meme, but I'm sure you meant to say...
he who enjoys curling should not cast the first stone :contract:
But if you don't have the hammer, you have to throw the first stone. :huh:
Quote from: HVC on August 12, 2011, 12:40:56 PM
he who enjoys curling should not cast the first stone :contract:
Curling scoring rules were much simpler. IIRC, the team with the closest stone gets 1-3 points each round, depending how many of their stones are closer than other team's.
Hmmm..............let me simplify........England are winning :cool:
I expect the London Indian community to burn down Finchley tonight.
Quote from: Martinus on August 12, 2011, 05:24:29 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 12, 2011, 04:39:50 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 11, 2011, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 11, 2011, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 11, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli
This isn't 1870 anymore. Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.
This reminds me of something a history lecturer of mine said. The Russian Empire was quite gentle with its subject peoples compared to some. When in 1905 some Finns staged a protest against the Russian government, they were dispersed by cossacks with whips. The British Empire would have sent in the machine guns. :bowler:
Finland is hardly representative of the Russian empire.
Yeah. What a load of bollocks. Russians were one of the most brutal ones, especially during the 19th century. Poles had some of the best comparison here, living under three different empires for over a century, and the Russian part was considered to have by far the worst political conditions. Austrians were the most benevolent, and Prussians were strict but recognized the rule of law. Russians were lawless and brutal thugs.
Of course, Poles were asking for it with their constant rebellions.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 12, 2011, 12:18:09 PM
England declared at 710-7 in the 3rd Test against India at Edgbaston. Cook got 294. India are now 10-1 in their 2nd innings and trail by 480 runs.
294? That's quite impressive.
Cricket is exciting to watch.
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 12, 2011, 12:18:09 PM
England declared at 710-7 in the 3rd Test against India at Edgbaston. Cook got 294. India are now 10-1 in their 2nd innings and trail by 480 runs.
294? That's quite impressive.
Cricket is exciting to watch.
Did England force the follow on and what day are we on? I presume the wicket is hard as concrete with England fielding only one bowler?
Typical England batsman, can't survive the nervous 290s. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 12, 2011, 12:18:09 PM
England declared at 710-7 in the 3rd Test against India at Edgbaston. Cook got 294. India are now 10-1 in their 2nd innings and trail by 480 runs.
294? That's quite impressive.
Cricket is exciting to watch.
I watched a cricket match some kids were playing at USC for a few minutes. I didn't understand what was going on, and I was hungry, so I left.
Quote from: Viking on August 12, 2011, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 12, 2011, 12:18:09 PM
England declared at 710-7 in the 3rd Test against India at Edgbaston. Cook got 294. India are now 10-1 in their 2nd innings and trail by 480 runs.
294? That's quite impressive.
Cricket is exciting to watch.
Did England force the follow on and what day are we on? I presume the wicket is hard as concrete with England fielding only one bowler?
That was day 3, India were all out for 224 in their first innings, then our guys ran up that massive score. India are now 35-1, the weather might be a problem though :hmm:
Quote from: Viking on August 12, 2011, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 12, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 12, 2011, 12:18:09 PM
England declared at 710-7 in the 3rd Test against India at Edgbaston. Cook got 294. India are now 10-1 in their 2nd innings and trail by 480 runs.
294? That's quite impressive.
Cricket is exciting to watch.
Did England force the follow on and what day are we on? I presume the wicket is hard as concrete with England fielding only one bowler?
Third. India bowled out for a desultory total and Cook had the knock of a lifetime. England could not enforce a follow on as they did not bat first.
I just watched an interview on swedish television with a couple of the looters. Dear God...is that England these days? How the mighty have fallen.
One of the looters said he was stealing stuff for his son. The looter was 16 years old. The other looter said he was forced to steal because he didnt get a job despite "doing the best he could, like being polite and stuff".
I dont know whether to laugh or cry. :( :bowler:
Quote from: Bluebook on August 12, 2011, 02:07:37 PM
I just watched an interview on swedish television with a couple of the looters. Dear God...is that England these days? How the mighty have fallen.
One of the looters said he was stealing stuff for his son. The looter was 16 years old. The other looter said he was forced to steal because he didnt get a job despite "doing the best he could, like being polite and stuff".
I dont know whether to laugh or cry. :( :bowler:
Would you rather him have been impolite?
Quote from: Bluebook on August 12, 2011, 02:07:37 PM
I just watched an interview on swedish television with a couple of the looters. Dear God...is that England these days? How the mighty have fallen.
Really? You shoudl see what Wellington had to say about his troops.
The only difference between today and then is that then, we shipped our troublesome youth abroad in the navy or army, or they died of TB at the age of 26 anyway.
After trying to follow this cricket talk i too have gotten the urge to riot.
Quote from: HVC on August 12, 2011, 03:09:13 PM
After trying to follow this cricket talk i too have gotten the urge to riot.
:lol:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 12, 2011, 02:01:52 PM
That was day 3, India were all out for 224 in their first innings, then our guys ran up that massive score. India are now 35-1, the weather might be a problem though :hmm:
This; Is; England!!!!!!11111oneoenoen
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Quote from: Warspite on August 12, 2011, 01:49:09 PM
Typical England batsman, can't survive the nervous 290s. :rolleyes:
Ah.. I still remember Mike Atherton's 185 in 1995. That was the knock that taught me to love and know cricket.
Quote from: Viking on August 12, 2011, 03:14:58 PM
Quote from: Warspite on August 12, 2011, 01:49:09 PM
Typical England batsman, can't survive the nervous 290s. :rolleyes:
Ah.. I still remember Mike Atherton's 185 in 1995. That was the knock that taught me to love and know cricket.
Fun fact: the England batting line up would go on to not score 185 runs - in total - for the rest of the decade.
We've been thrashed by the Welsh at Rugby :weep:
Quote from: Brazen on August 13, 2011, 12:48:14 PM
We've been thrashed by the Welsh at Rugby :weep:
Oh well, in a week where you get thrashed at economics by reality and by yobs at civilization it doesn't surprise me that you get thrashed at the thing that the welsh are second best at.
If you have to ask what the welsh are best at then I just have to tell you that singing is third.
England won by an innings and 242 runs, to go 3-0 up in the series and become the world's #1 test side :cool:
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2011, 12:52:18 PM
Oh well, in a week where you get thrashed at economics by reality and by yobs at civilization it doesn't surprise me that you get thrashed at the thing that the welsh are second best at.
If you have to ask what the welsh are best at then I just have to tell you that singing is third.
Drinking and "nuclear physics" both spring to mind. :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 01:39:26 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2011, 12:52:18 PM
Oh well, in a week where you get thrashed at economics by reality and by yobs at civilization it doesn't surprise me that you get thrashed at the thing that the welsh are second best at.
If you have to ask what the welsh are best at then I just have to tell you that singing is third.
Drinking and "nuclear physics" both spring to mind. :hmm:
Nuclear Physics? I don't know any Physicists named Jones, Williams or Davies?
How many physicists do you know?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 02:07:17 PM
How many physicists do you know?
I once med Edward Teller.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2011, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2011, 02:14:33 PM
I once med Edward Teller.
Inventor of the ATM?
No, the H-Bomb
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Teller
Yeah? Was he an ass to you too?
Quote from: Neil on August 13, 2011, 02:42:54 PM
Yeah? Was he an ass to you too?
Nope, he was the perfect gentleman.
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2011, 02:50:14 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 13, 2011, 02:42:54 PM
Yeah? Was he an ass to you too?
Nope, he was the perfect gentleman.
Well, I suppose in the end he got just about everything he wanted, except for the respect of his peers.
He's Swedish.
Why would I have used the quote marks if I actually meant nuclear physics? :contract:
:)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
Why would I have used the quote marks if I actually meant nuclear physics? :contract:
but I still don't know what you are going on about....
Wales gets cold and lonely sometimes.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 04:04:40 PM
Wales gets cold and lonely sometimes.
Yes, thus the unnamed thing that the welsh are best at. But I'm pretty sure that "nuclear physics" is a euphemism for that. "astrophysics" maybe, what with black holes and whatnot... but not "nuclear physics"
Oh FFS.
:lol:
So how about them chavs.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 04:14:26 PM
:lol:
So how about them chavs.
I demand you explain your cryptic reference.
For anyone interested, there is a slew of rather interesting articles about the riots in this week's The Economist.
It appears the British police did nothing wrong per se - it was simply devoid of tools to combat the new "flash mob" style rioting (thanks to Black Berries the rioters turned themselves effectively formless, a'la Sun Tzu's teachings).
My personal, rather disturbing, conclusion from all this is that there will be stronger than ever pressure on breaching online communication privacy by the police from now on.
Quote from: Martinus on August 13, 2011, 04:25:30 PM
For anyone interested, there is a slew of rather interesting articles about the riots in this week's The Economist.
It appears the British police did nothing wrong per se - it was simply devoid of tools to combat the new "flash mob" style rioting (thanks to Black Berries the rioters turned themselves effectively formless, a'la Sun Tzu's teachings).
My personal, rather disturbing, conclusion from all this is that there will be stronger than ever pressure on breaching online communication privacy by the police from now on.
This does not disturb me in the slightest. It's my hope that one day your posts here will be hung on the walls of your workplace.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
Why would I have used the quote marks if I actually meant nuclear physics? :contract:
It's not Denise Richards, is it?
We are getting closer to the inevitable: mandatory personal gps positioning.
Quote from: The Brain on August 13, 2011, 04:30:50 PM
We are getting closer to the inevitable: mandatory personal gps positioning.
That's a good thing.
Quote from: Neil on August 13, 2011, 05:50:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 13, 2011, 04:30:50 PM
We are getting closer to the inevitable: mandatory personal gps positioning.
That's a good thing.
Yeah, they are going to find I don't go very many places.
8:00 - Raz still in house
10:00 - Raz still in house
12:00 - Raz still in house
2:00 - Raz still in house
4:00 - Raz checks his mail
6:00 - Raz still in house
etc
Yeah, but they don't really care about you. Your madness makes you orderly.
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 12:09:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 11, 2011, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Apparently, in Mexico they use limón to refer to both lemon and lime. I think the rest of Latin America tends to differentiate the two-- usually into limón and lima, respectively.
I mean, they're similar, but seems like they'd be forced to differentiate "limon verde" and "limon amarillo." And maybe they do, since when I google "limon verde" I get tons of pictures of limes. :P
It's impossible to get limes in Korea! :angry:
How do they fight scurvy?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2011, 08:04:16 PM
How do they fight scurvy?
They don't. That's why they are so short.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 13, 2011, 08:05:32 PM
They don't. That's why they are so short.
Koreans are turning into the monsters of Asia.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2011, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 13, 2011, 08:05:32 PM
They don't. That's why they are so short.
Koreans are turning into the monsters of Asia.
Probably a result of eating dogs. I suspect that that the addage "you are what you eat" is true in this case and the Koreans are turning into a race dog headed monsters. The terrible new visage of the Korean people will likely tempt them into cannibalism. A dog eat dog world, if you will.
[backs slowly out of room]
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It's been known to happen.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2011, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 13, 2011, 08:05:32 PM
They don't. That's why they are so short.
Koreans are turning into the monsters of Asia.
I was amazed at how tall the young people are here. There must be a 4 inch difference between those born in 1985 and 1965.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 13, 2011, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2011, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 13, 2011, 08:05:32 PM
They don't. That's why they are so short.
Koreans are turning into the monsters of Asia.
I was amazed at how tall the young people are here. There must be a 4 inch difference between those born in 1985 and 1965.
And anyone born in or pre-1950s is really, really short. Malnutrition will do that.
QuoteProbably a result of eating dogs. I suspect that that the addage "you are what you eat" is true in this case and the Koreans are turning into a race dog headed monsters. The terrible new visage of the Korean people will likely tempt them into cannibalism. A dog eat dog world, if you will.
But can they defeat the Tiger Penis Chinese?
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 13, 2011, 10:59:39 PM
But can they defeat the Tiger Penis Chinese?
I don't want to know what kind of terrible creatures the Chinese will turn into.
Quote from: Martinus on August 13, 2011, 04:25:30 PM
For anyone interested, there is a slew of rather interesting articles about the riots in this week's The Economist.
It appears the British police did nothing wrong per se - it was simply devoid of tools to combat the new "flash mob" style rioting (thanks to Black Berries the rioters turned themselves effectively formless, a'la Sun Tzu's teachings).
My personal, rather disturbing, conclusion from all this is that there will be stronger than ever pressure on breaching online communication privacy by the police from now on.
I really think that only minor tinkering with the police is necessary.........and even that tinkering should be on the operational side of things, such as how to rapidly increase numbers if a situation is escalating. The cops should be able to make the required changes themselves.
The real problem is that part of the underclass that totally lack any of the moral inhibitions that turn the vast majority of us into law-abiding citizens. To sort this out will be a long term project requiring great clarity of thought and action.
One hypothesis, that I have not seen advanced so far, is that the English mob is merely the first to have latched on to the opportunities for more effective rioting provided by the new media. (Correction.........maybe some of the "Arab Spring" events have used it). Maybe the banner "coming to your country soon" should feature on the video clips of the rioting and looting. FWIW I still think that Britain is further down the road of social changes caused by industrialisation than nearly anywhere else in the world, the disconnection and anomie of at least parts of the underclass seems to have gone further than elsewhere. Interesting times.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 13, 2011, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 12:09:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 11, 2011, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
Lemons and lime the same thing? Who was the argument between, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles?
Apparently, in Mexico they use limón to refer to both lemon and lime. I think the rest of Latin America tends to differentiate the two-- usually into limón and lima, respectively.
I mean, they're similar, but seems like they'd be forced to differentiate "limon verde" and "limon amarillo." And maybe they do, since when I google "limon verde" I get tons of pictures of limes. :P
It's impossible to get limes in Korea! :angry:
How do you know that? Did Ide tell you? :huh:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 01:15:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 13, 2011, 04:25:30 PM
For anyone interested, there is a slew of rather interesting articles about the riots in this week's The Economist.
It appears the British police did nothing wrong per se - it was simply devoid of tools to combat the new "flash mob" style rioting (thanks to Black Berries the rioters turned themselves effectively formless, a'la Sun Tzu's teachings).
My personal, rather disturbing, conclusion from all this is that there will be stronger than ever pressure on breaching online communication privacy by the police from now on.
I really think that only minor tinkering with the police is necessary.........and even that tinkering should be on the operational side of things, such as how to rapidly increase numbers if a situation is escalating. The cops should be able to make the required changes themselves.
The real problem is that part of the underclass that totally lack any of the moral inhibitions that turn the vast majority of us into law-abiding citizens. To sort this out will be a long term project requiring great clarity of thought and action.
One hypothesis, that I have not seen advanced so far, is that the English mob is merely the first to have latched on to the opportunities for more effective rioting provided by the new media. (Correction.........maybe some of the "Arab Spring" events have used it). Maybe the banner "coming to your country soon" should feature on the video clips of the rioting and looting. FWIW I still think that Britain is further down the road of social changes caused by industrialisation than nearly anywhere else in the world, the disconnection and anomie of at least parts of the underclass seems to have gone further than elsewhere. Interesting times.
Actually, that seems to be one of the conclusions from The Economist's articles too - that police is simply not equipped to deal with a "flash mob style" tactics from the rioters (and this is why I formed my prediction that this may lead to greater calls for internet control, as social media etc. are the main means of communication for flash mobs of various kind).
There is also another point that this thing has hit Britain particularly bad, because of its status as a "middle ground" between Europe and the US - which in this particular instance conspired to make it the worst of two worlds - relatively lax, European-style attitude to policing, coupled with US-style social inequalities. I would also add that Britain, like the US, has a much more allergic attitude to measures of populace control, such as IDs which may have contributed.
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 03:33:04 AM
I would also add that Britain, like the US, has a much more allergic attitude to measures of populace control, such as IDs which may have contributed.
What exactly do you mean by populace control? Britain's love affair with for instance surveillance is notorious.
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 03:33:04 AM
There is also another point that this thing has hit Britain particularly bad, because of its status as a "middle ground" between Europe and the US - which in this particular instance conspired to make it the worst of two worlds - relatively lax, European-style attitude to policing, coupled with US-style social inequalities. I would also add that Britain, like the US, has a much more allergic attitude to measures of populace control, such as IDs which may have contributed.
Oh please. Britain has by far the highest number of CCTV and that's much more population control than an ID card could ever be.
EDIT: Heh, Brain was a few seconds faster.
Quote from: The Brain on August 14, 2011, 03:35:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 03:33:04 AM
I would also add that Britain, like the US, has a much more allergic attitude to measures of populace control, such as IDs which may have contributed.
What exactly do you mean by populace control? Britain's love affair with for instance surveillance is notorious.
But they freaked out about IDs.
CCTV is deployed in public places, so it doesn't matter. Carrying ID is a gross imposition, Hugo Rifkind's response to it in a recent Spectator column is a typical response to it :
"It's summer, though, so columnist etiquette dictates that I ought to be telling you about my latest holiday, and the insights it gave me of home. Right? So here you go. I was on a train in Germany the other day, and a policeman with a gun demanded to see my papers.
He bloody did. And we're not talking tickets here, either. He wanted me to produce my passport, so as to prove that I was who I said I was. Apropos of nothing at all. It was something to do with the Schengen agreement, I gather, and the fact that I was quite near the Swiss border, even though I had no intention of crossing it. This sort of thing just happens in Germany, and nobody thinks it's weird. Nobody minds. Nobody says, 'By what law? How dare you!' and all the other things that David Davis and Shami Chakrabarti have told us we ought to say over here.
What shocked me the most was how much it shocked me. I flew into Gatwick last year with a brace of Telegraph columnists, and both of them were appalled at passport control when I told them I'd registered for the iris scan. 'Don't you mind surrendering that information?' they said, and I thought, well, no. It's my eye. I really don't mind people knowing I have it.
I understand all that civil liberties stuff, intellectually and emotionally, too, but I've always struggled to share it. Who really gives a damn, I always thought. Until now. This is my line in the sand. A man with a gun, on a train, insisting, without reason, that I prove I am who I am. Brrr. Not here."
I appreciate that foreigners may feel different, but this is how most British people feel and we are entitled to arrange matters in the UK to suit our own preferences.
Cops with guns = end of civilization. :yes:
Saw the session of Parliament on this while on vacation. All parties involved seemed much more dignified and competent then those who currently reside in Congress. <_<
@RH: TheBrain already pointed that out with his usual humor, but to enunciate: there you have it. We have policemen with guns, you have 4 days of looting riots. I'd take policemen with guns please.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 14, 2011, 04:33:12 AM
Saw the session of Parliament on this while on vacation. All parties involved seemed much more dignified and competent then those who currently reside in Congress. <_<
Must have been a bad day then. Calling a session of the British Parliament a dignified affair is quite... unusual. :lol:
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 04:36:51 AM
@RH: TheBrain already pointed that out with his usual humor, but to enunciate: there you have it. We have policemen with guns, you have 4 days of looting riots. I'd take policemen with guns please.
The riots were not caused by the fact that British police are typically unarmed. In fact it appears that the initial trigger was bad firearms discipline on the part of a Met officer.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 14, 2011, 04:33:12 AM
Saw the session of Parliament on this while on vacation. All parties involved seemed much more dignified and competent then those who currently reside in Congress. <_<
The Economist has an article about this, might make interesting reading for you :
http://www.economist.com/node/21525911
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 04:36:51 AM
@RH: TheBrain already pointed that out with his usual humor, but to enunciate: there you have it. We have policemen with guns, you have 4 days of looting riots. I'd take policemen with guns please.
There of course being no riots and looting in countries with guns.
Really, you've outdone yourself here.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/US-Day-of-Rage/199185230105826
GATHER YOUR ARMIES
Quote3,775
people like this
LOL
Scary stuff Ed, luckily da feds are armed :cool:
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 14, 2011, 07:46:46 AM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/US-Day-of-Rage/199185230105826
GATHER YOUR ARMIES
Quote3,775
people like this
LOL
:lol: These guys are gonna rocked hard if they try any of that bullshit.
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 03:33:04 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 01:15:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 13, 2011, 04:25:30 PM
For anyone interested, there is a slew of rather interesting articles about the riots in this week's The Economist.
It appears the British police did nothing wrong per se - it was simply devoid of tools to combat the new "flash mob" style rioting (thanks to Black Berries the rioters turned themselves effectively formless, a'la Sun Tzu's teachings).
My personal, rather disturbing, conclusion from all this is that there will be stronger than ever pressure on breaching online communication privacy by the police from now on.
I really think that only minor tinkering with the police is necessary.........and even that tinkering should be on the operational side of things, such as how to rapidly increase numbers if a situation is escalating. The cops should be able to make the required changes themselves.
The real problem is that part of the underclass that totally lack any of the moral inhibitions that turn the vast majority of us into law-abiding citizens. To sort this out will be a long term project requiring great clarity of thought and action.
One hypothesis, that I have not seen advanced so far, is that the English mob is merely the first to have latched on to the opportunities for more effective rioting provided by the new media. (Correction.........maybe some of the "Arab Spring" events have used it). Maybe the banner "coming to your country soon" should feature on the video clips of the rioting and looting. FWIW I still think that Britain is further down the road of social changes caused by industrialisation than nearly anywhere else in the world, the disconnection and anomie of at least parts of the underclass seems to have gone further than elsewhere. Interesting times.
Actually, that seems to be one of the conclusions from The Economist's articles too - that police is simply not equipped to deal with a "flash mob style" tactics from the rioters (and this is why I formed my prediction that this may lead to greater calls for internet control, as social media etc. are the main means of communication for flash mobs of various kind).
I think the "blame" on social media is misplaced. Riots can and have appeared almost spontaneously in the past. The biggest problem is that the British police simply can't respond fast enough to any incident for some reason.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 14, 2011, 12:26:27 PMThe biggest problem is that the British police simply can't respond fast enough to any incident for some reason.
Whistles, bobbie helmets and RIGHT WOTS ALL THIS THEN is no way to run a modern metropolitan police force. What fags.
You guys don't get that no matter which 19th or 20th century method of law enforcement they would have used, it would be useless against the style employed by the rioters.
Flash mobs are just that - they communicate via social media, appear at the spot, loot and by the time the police arrives they disperse and are gone.
They do not attack the police, they do not occupy a single space - in Sun Tzu's words, they are formless. It takes 2+ policemen to run down and catch a single looter if he is running alone through backstreets.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 14, 2011, 12:26:27 PM
I think the "blame" on social media is misplaced. Riots can and have appeared almost spontaneously in the past. The biggest problem is that the British police simply can't respond fast enough to any incident for some reason.
It's not just that they appear spontaneously but they also disappear fairly quickly and reconvene at a different spot. This ability is something made uniquely possible via means of mass instant communication offered by social media.
Mayor Nutter in Philly shows you how to do it. Give 'em a sermon, curfew the bastards and let the cops loose.
I've always said we need more nutters in England.
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2011, 12:41:13 PM
You guys don't get that no matter which 19th or 20th century method of law enforcement they would have used, it would be useless against the style employed by the rioters.
Flash mobs are just that - they communicate via social media, appear at the spot, loot and by the time the police arrives they disperse and are gone.
They do not attack the police, they do not occupy a single space - in Sun Tzu's words, they are formless. It takes 2+ policemen to run down and catch a single looter if he is running alone through backstreets.
-you were a loud advocate of stronger police action. I am glad The Economist enligthened you on what you ought to think
-keeping to use Sun Tzu allegories to a mob for which the only organization is tweets like "k lets go to enfield now lolz" is rather annoying
It was actually Shih-Tzu Doggy Dog that Marty was quoting.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 12:44:59 PM
I've always said we need more nutters in England.
Shouldn't of shipped them off to the colonies then. :bowler:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 12:49:20 PM
It was actually Shih-Tzu Doggy Dog that Marty was quoting.
:D
Firing machineguns into masses of looters would have been extremely effective. What none of you seem to get is that continuing to dream up more and more 'human rights' will inevitably produce a less ordered society. If all these people were hanged for thievery, Britain would become a better place.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 14, 2011, 12:43:13 PMMayor Nutter in Philly shows you how to do it. Give 'em a sermon, curfew the bastards and let the cops loose.
Precisely. He gave the little shits the heads up, he established a curfew, and now the cops are waiting with the dogs and the gas at all the popular downtown flash spots.
A lot of teeniggers spent this weekend in jail.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 04:13:42 AM
CCTV is deployed in public places, so it doesn't matter. Carrying ID is a gross imposition, Hugo Rifkind's response to it in a recent Spectator column is a typical response to it :
"It's summer, though, so columnist etiquette dictates that I ought to be telling you about my latest holiday, and the insights it gave me of home. Right? So here you go. I was on a train in Germany the other day, and a policeman with a gun demanded to see my papers.
He bloody did. And we're not talking tickets here, either. He wanted me to produce my passport, so as to prove that I was who I said I was. Apropos of nothing at all. It was something to do with the Schengen agreement, I gather, and the fact that I was quite near the Swiss border, even though I had no intention of crossing it. This sort of thing just happens in Germany, and nobody thinks it's weird. Nobody minds. Nobody says, 'By what law? How dare you!' and all the other things that David Davis and Shami Chakrabarti have told us we ought to say over here.
What shocked me the most was how much it shocked me. I flew into Gatwick last year with a brace of Telegraph columnists, and both of them were appalled at passport control when I told them I'd registered for the iris scan. 'Don't you mind surrendering that information?' they said, and I thought, well, no. It's my eye. I really don't mind people knowing I have it.
I understand all that civil liberties stuff, intellectually and emotionally, too, but I've always struggled to share it. Who really gives a damn, I always thought. Until now. This is my line in the sand. A man with a gun, on a train, insisting, without reason, that I prove I am who I am. Brrr. Not here."
I appreciate that foreigners may feel different, but this is how most British people feel and we are entitled to arrange matters in the UK to suit our own preferences.
I've never ever been asked by police for my ID card in Germany (except at the airport), so I wouldn't know whether the experience is as horrid as described here.
Quote from: Zanza on August 14, 2011, 02:39:45 PM
I've never ever been asked by police for my ID card in Germany (except at the airport), so I wouldn't know whether the experience is as horrid as described here.
It's like the movie, "The Great Escape".
Or like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. No papers = you take a shortcut off the aircraft. :D
@Zanza......it's not a big deal, I've lived in Germany and know that it is not a place of repressive horror :D
But different nationalities have different opinions of what is OTT. In Britain CCTV is pretty uncontroversial, producing ID on demand to police whilst going about one's lawful business is very controversial. As I've said on this forum before, there is no way that I would ever carry a UK ID card. In fact I do not carry ID when I'm let loose on the Continent, usually leaving my passport in the hotel safe, though that makes me feel slightly guilty :hmm:
I once bullied myself into Estonia when I thought we were in a passport union with them at the time... turns out we were not, I did have my passport in my pocket though.. I was making a point and being a dick.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 04:30:15 PM
@Zanza......it's not a big deal, I've lived in Germany and know that it is not a place of repressive horror :D
But different nationalities have different opinions of what is OTT. In Britain CCTV is pretty uncontroversial, producing ID on demand to police whilst going about one's lawful business is very controversial. As I've said on this forum before, there is no way that I would ever carry a UK ID card. In fact I do not carry ID when I'm let loose on the Continent, usually leaving my passport in the hotel safe, though that makes me feel slightly guilty :hmm:
Was it in Paris when we shared a hotel room and I first saw you do that? I remember it was totally alien for me to see a bloke just wander off in to a foreign city without any document of identification. :D
But I only carry my driver's license on me when abroad, leaving the passport at the hotel. The driver's ID should be enough for the police in schengen country, and the passport is way too important to be stolen from me while I am busy falling over benches and stuff.
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2011, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 04:30:15 PM
@Zanza......it's not a big deal, I've lived in Germany and know that it is not a place of repressive horror :D
But different nationalities have different opinions of what is OTT. In Britain CCTV is pretty uncontroversial, producing ID on demand to police whilst going about one's lawful business is very controversial. As I've said on this forum before, there is no way that I would ever carry a UK ID card. In fact I do not carry ID when I'm let loose on the Continent, usually leaving my passport in the hotel safe, though that makes me feel slightly guilty :hmm:
The driver's ID should be enough for the police in schengen country, and the passport is way too important to be stolen from me while I am busy falling over benches and stuff.
:D
Yeah, I like to have my passport somewhere safe as well, the hassle if one lost it or it was stolen whould be tremendous.
I did get stopped by Yugoslav police once (in Croatia but this was way back in the 70s so Yugoslavia), I think they wanted ID or may have wanted to tell us off for jaywalking. There was a bit of a language problem, ie total mutual incomprehension. Of course our passports were safely back at the campsite reception and we had no other ID on us. In the end I showed them the plastic chip that the campsite had given us and they let us go. I think they must have concluded that we were harmless idiots :hmm:
Both we and the cops were very polite btw, it was not a threatening situation.
did they have guns
Interesting note on the psychology of the more lumpen of the rioters: http://www.facebook.com/notes/joe-best/inside-the-minds-of-londons-rioters/10150372770132588
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 15, 2011, 02:36:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2011, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2011, 04:30:15 PM
@Zanza......it's not a big deal, I've lived in Germany and know that it is not a place of repressive horror :D
But different nationalities have different opinions of what is OTT. In Britain CCTV is pretty uncontroversial, producing ID on demand to police whilst going about one's lawful business is very controversial. As I've said on this forum before, there is no way that I would ever carry a UK ID card. In fact I do not carry ID when I'm let loose on the Continent, usually leaving my passport in the hotel safe, though that makes me feel slightly guilty :hmm:
The driver's ID should be enough for the police in schengen country, and the passport is way too important to be stolen from me while I am busy falling over benches and stuff.
:D
Yeah, I like to have my passport somewhere safe as well, the hassle if one lost it or it was stolen whould be tremendous.
I did get stopped by Yugoslav police once (in Croatia but this was way back in the 70s so Yugoslavia), I think they wanted ID or may have wanted to tell us off for jaywalking. There was a bit of a language problem, ie total mutual incomprehension. Of course our passports were safely back at the campsite reception and we had no other ID on us. In the end I showed them the plastic chip that the campsite had given us and they let us go. I think they must have concluded that we were harmless idiots :hmm:
Both we and the cops were very polite btw, it was not a threatening situation.
Haha, I still have that problem in Croatia; I go back there on holiday, and then have to deal with officialdom who give me a good tutting off as a silly diaspora for not having any ID. :D
British moral panics about the youth of today through the ages. :bowler:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0 (http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0)
Daily Express, July 1981:
QuoteOver the past twenty years or so, there has been a revulsion from authority and discipline... There has been a permissive revolution... and now we all reap the whirlwind
Sir Keith Joseph, 1974:
QuoteFor the first time in a century and a half, since the great Tory reformer Robert Peel set up the Metropolitan police, areas of our cities are becoming unsafe for peaceful citizens by night, and some even by day
Daily Mail, 1956 (about rock & roll corrupting British youth):
QuoteIt is deplorable. It is tribal. And it is from America. It follows rag-time, blues, dixie, jazz, hot cha-cha and the boogie-woogie, which surely originated in the jungle. We sometimes wonder whether this is the negro's revenge.
Recorder of Bradford, 1951:
QuoteParents at this time, unfortunately, do not take sufficient care in bringing up their children. They expect someone else to be responsible.
Guide to boys' clubs, 1931:
QuoteThe passing of parental authority, defiance of pre-war conventions, the absence of restraint, the wildness of extremes, the confusion of unrelated liberties, the wholesale drift away from churches
Young Delinquents, 1913 (about cinema):
QuoteAll who care for the moral well-being and education of the child will set their faces like flint against this new form of excitement
The Times, 1898:
Quoteit is melancholy to find that some parents are not ashamed to confess that children of seven or eight years old are entirely beyond their control
The Times, 1862:
QuoteOur streets are actually not as safe as they were in the days of our grandfathers. We have slipped back to a state of affairs that would be intolerable even in Naples
Quote from: The Larch on August 18, 2011, 10:57:40 AM
QuoteWe have slipped back to a state of affairs that would be intolerable even in Naples
:lol:
the racist 1956 one is my fav.
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2011, 11:00:19 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 18, 2011, 10:57:40 AM
QuoteWe have slipped back to a state of affairs that would be intolerable even in Naples
:lol:
That's pretty harsh, considering that Naples routinely drowns in its own trash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples_waste_management_issue
Authorities may be overreacting a tad.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2011/0815/Flash-mobs-or-splash-mob-UK-man-arrested-for-planning-water-pistol-fight
QuoteBy Eoin O'Carroll, Staff writer / August 15, 2011
Police in Colchester, Essex, England, have arrested a man and charged him with under Britain's Serious Crime Act of 2007 after he allegedly used social media networks to plan a water gun fight.
In a post on the Essex police website titled "Police reassure residents they are working to keep county safe," Essex law enforcement reported that the unnamed 20-year-old allegedly used his BlackBerry to encourage Colchester residents to gather for a city-wide bout of water-flinging. He was released on bail and is scheduled to appear in court on September 1.
The arrest comes a week after several cities in England were rocked by widespread rioting, looting, and arson, much of which appears to have been organized via instant messaging and other social media platforms. Unlike other counties, Essex has not seen any large-scale unrest.
IN PICTURES: Flash mobs
The man's arrest has prompted outrage on Twitter, with many asking if the report was a joke. Essex police responded via Twitter that "there may be more involved" in the case, but did not elaborate.
In the wake of the riots, British Prime Minister David Cameron has called for a clampdown on social media. Speaking to the House of Commons last week Cameron said that his government is "working with the Police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites and services when we know they are plotting violence, disorder and criminality."
Cameron's statement stands in contrast to those he made in January, during the uprising in Egypt that ultimately ousted President Hosni Mubarak. Back then Cameron, in a joint statement with his counterparts in Germany and France, warned the Egyptian government that "[t]here must be full respect for human rights and democratic freedoms, including freedom of expression and communication, including use of telephones and the internet, and the right of peaceful assembly."
Britain is not the first country to crack down on a splash mobbery. Last month, Iranian morality police arrested 17 youths participating in a Facebook-organized mixed-gender water pistol shootout in a park in central Tehran.
There are reports that Iranian youths are organizing another Super Soaker event.
All of those things are true though. Each generation is worse than the one that came before it.
Given that the water gun fight would quickly dissolve into a riot, I think they were right to act.
So, the UK is heading towards "V for Vendetta" while the US with Bachmann/Perry is keeling over towards "Handsmaid's Tale". Lovely. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Neil on August 18, 2011, 08:52:45 PM
All of those things are true though. Each generation is worse than the one that came before it.
Oh our glorious cavemen ancestors, how has mankind fallen down since then. :P
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2011, 01:39:45 AM
So, the UK is heading towards "V for Vendetta" while the US with Bachmann/Perry is keeling over towards "Handsmaid's Tale". Lovely. :rolleyes:
I suspect Poland is heading for "Riddley Walker".
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 18, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
Authorities may be overreacting a tad.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2011/0815/Flash-mobs-or-splash-mob-UK-man-arrested-for-planning-water-pistol-fight
QuoteBy Eoin O'Carroll, Staff writer / August 15, 2011
Police in Colchester, Essex, England, have arrested a man and charged him with under Britain's Serious Crime Act of 2007 after he allegedly used social media networks to plan a water gun fight.
In a post on the Essex police website titled "Police reassure residents they are working to keep county safe," Essex law enforcement reported that the unnamed 20-year-old allegedly used his BlackBerry to encourage Colchester residents to gather for a city-wide bout of water-flinging. He was released on bail and is scheduled to appear in court on September 1.
The arrest comes a week after several cities in England were rocked by widespread rioting, looting, and arson, much of which appears to have been organized via instant messaging and other social media platforms. Unlike other counties, Essex has not seen any large-scale unrest.
IN PICTURES: Flash mobs
The man's arrest has prompted outrage on Twitter, with many asking if the report was a joke. Essex police responded via Twitter that "there may be more involved" in the case, but did not elaborate.
In the wake of the riots, British Prime Minister David Cameron has called for a clampdown on social media. Speaking to the House of Commons last week Cameron said that his government is "working with the Police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites and services when we know they are plotting violence, disorder and criminality."
Cameron's statement stands in contrast to those he made in January, during the uprising in Egypt that ultimately ousted President Hosni Mubarak. Back then Cameron, in a joint statement with his counterparts in Germany and France, warned the Egyptian government that "[t]here must be full respect for human rights and democratic freedoms, including freedom of expression and communication, including use of telephones and the internet, and the right of peaceful assembly."
Britain is not the first country to crack down on a splash mobbery. Last month, Iranian morality police arrested 17 youths participating in a Facebook-organized mixed-gender water pistol shootout in a park in central Tehran.
There are reports that Iranian youths are organizing another Super Soaker event.
You know what? If you want to organize your hipster water fight at the tail end of massive riots you deserve what you get.
Quote from: The Larch on August 19, 2011, 02:10:26 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 18, 2011, 08:52:45 PM
All of those things are true though. Each generation is worse than the one that came before it.
Oh our glorious cavemen ancestors, how has mankind fallen down since then. :P
Btw, kudos to anti-Pope protesters in Spain. :thumbsup:
A bunch of us nearly got arrested for holding a water-pistol based game of Killer in the early 90s. It was a little too near diplomatic residences, apparently, and some guns a little too real.
Quote from: The Larch on August 19, 2011, 02:10:26 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 18, 2011, 08:52:45 PM
All of those things are true though. Each generation is worse than the one that came before it.
Oh our glorious cavemen ancestors, how has mankind fallen down since then. :P
I wouldn't go that far back, but any society in which people are too far removed from their means of survival means that each subsequent generation will become weaker.
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2011, 04:06:06 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 19, 2011, 02:10:26 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 18, 2011, 08:52:45 PM
All of those things are true though. Each generation is worse than the one that came before it.
Oh our glorious cavemen ancestors, how has mankind fallen down since then. :P
Btw, kudos to anti-Pope protesters in Spain. :thumbsup:
I dunno. They had a picture in the paper yesterday of some middle-aged asshole screaming his head off at some young girl. I mean, Catholics are less than regular people, and so are Southern Europeans (although either are still better than gays), but I've decided to judge those protesters to be assholes.
Quote from: Neil on August 19, 2011, 08:15:09 AM
I dunno. They had a picture in the paper yesterday of some middle-aged asshole screaming his head off at some young girl. I mean, Catholics are less than regular people, and so are Southern Europeans (although either are still better than gays), but I've decided to judge those protesters to be assholes.
Yep. They'll be digging up dead nuns before you know it.
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2011, 04:06:06 AM
Btw, kudos to anti-Pope protesters in Spain. :thumbsup:
Whilst I am no fan of the Roman Catholic church, even I thought those "protesters" were wrong in their methods. By all means campaign for your cause, but don't force it to descend into violence - it's unnecessary and entirely undermines any legitimate points you may have had.