Britain burns - Chavs ruin civilization

[Razgovory]

London (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.

So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.

Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.

The tabloid Sun newspaper wrote in its opinion page on Thursday of the "sick" society described by Prime Minister David Cameron: "The sickness starts on welfare-addicted estates where feckless parents let children run wild."

But its front-page headline told a different story about the accused: "Lifeguard, postman, hairdresser, teacher, millionaire's daughter, chef and schoolboy, 11."

The Daily Mail reported: "While the trouble has been largely blamed on feral teenagers, many of those paraded before the courts yesterday led apparently respectable lives."

The upmarket Daily Telegraph devoted its page three to the case of Laura Johnson, the 19-year-old daughter of a company director who pleaded not guilty to stealing £5,000 ($8,000) of electrical goods, under the headline: "Girl who has it all is accused of theft."

The newspaper said she lived in a converted farmhouse in the leafy London suburb of Orpington, Kent, with extensive grounds and a tennis court, had studied at one of the best-performing state schools in the country and now attends the University of Exeter.

Reporter Andrew Gilligan wrote in the Daily Telegraph: "Here in court, as David Cameron condemned the 'sickness' in parts of British society, we saw clearly, for the first time, the face of the riot: stripped of its hoods and masks, dressed in white prison T-shirts and handcuffed to burly security guards.

"It was rather different from the one we had been expecting."

He added of the defendants at Highbury Magistrates Court in north London: "Most were teenagers or in their early twenties, but a surprising number were older.

"Most interestingly of all, they were predominantly white, and many had jobs."

Most newspapers highlighted the case of Alexis Bailey, a 31-year-old learning mentor in an elementary school, who pleaded guilty to burglary with intent to steal at an electrical store in Croydon, south of London.

It was reported that Bailey surrendered to police without stealing anything.

The youngest defendant so far -- an 11-year-old boy -- also gained much attention in newspapers.

The boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.

The Daily Mail highlighted the cases of Barry Naine, a 42-year-old charity worker charged with burglary; postman Jeffrey Ebanks, 32, and his student nephew Jamal Ebanks, 18, allegedly caught in a car stuffed with electrical goods near a looted Croydon store.

It also reported that Jason Matthews, a 35-year-old new father arrested in a Tesco supermarket, told police he "was not one of the bad ones" and needed diapers for his baby; and that Christopher Heart, a 23-year-old scaffolder and father of two, shouted "sorry for the inconvenience" and broke down in tears after admitting burglary at a sports shop in east London.

Lifeguard Aaron Mulholland, 30, wept as he appeared in court accused of joining thieves in a cell phone shop, the Daily Mail reported.

The Sun reported that an organic chef, Fitzroy Thomas, 43, and his 47-year-old brother Ronald, denied smashing up a branch of the Nando's chicken restaurant chain.

The Metropolitan Police in London said on its website on Thursday that 401 people have been charged so far.

Greater Manchester Police said five men aged between 46 and 23 had already been jailed for their part in the disorder.

West Midlands Police said 26 people, including a 44-year-old man, had appeared before an overnight court session in relation to the disorder in Birmingham.

Huh.  Seem to be less disadvantaged then some people suggest.

[Viking]

hmm... the upper age for ASBO's might need to be revisited when people my age are yobs.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money 

Arming your police forces isn't free.

The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.

Er, the fact there are currently roving gangs burning and looting at will through out the UK indicates they are not being deployed when needed.

Bollocks.

There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.

[Barrister]

Interesting Raz, though on reflection not entirely surprising.

[mongers]

The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money 

Arming your police forces isn't free.

The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.

Er, the fact there are currently roving gangs burning and looting at will through out the UK indicates they are not being deployed when needed.

Bollocks.

There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.

To a large extent I agree, though I'd have favoured the use of baton rounds as soon as it became clear that the police couldn't cope, a few broken limbs and perhaps one or two 'tragedies' would have deterred and denied the looters the free range they enjoyed. 

I think the gravest mistake in the whole affair was allowing the mobs, uncontested control of the streets, even if only for one or two days. It's as if the chief constable decided to withdraw from being responsible for law and order. 

Frankly we've been very lucky that no one has been burned to death by the various acts of arson. Which angers me, because not taking on people who set fires is a tragedy in the making and for which almost any police weapon should be considered to counter.

[Razgovory]

Bollocks.

There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.

Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this.  To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I agree with you mongers, it would have been better if the cops had gone in earlier and administered some salutary beatings. But............if they had done that and nipped it in the bud.........think of all the whining about human rights that we would now be enduring.

Isn't arson on a par with murder btw? I may be out of date on this.

[Martinus]

London (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.

So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.

Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.

Snip

Huh. This seems like a bizarre sci-fi story set-up about mass hysteria caused by drugs or cosmic rays. Weird.

[Barrister]

I agree with you mongers, it would have been better if the cops had gone in earlier and administered some salutary beatings. But............if they had done that and nipped it in the bud.........think of the all the whining about human rights that we would now be enduring.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Bollocks.

There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.

Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this.  To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.

I think that the police were initially inhibited by what you Americans would call "liberal opinion". Once they realised that the public were behind them things could get resolved quite quickly.

[Viking]

London (CNN) -- Before they started appearing in court, most people assumed London's rioters and looters were unemployed youths with no hope and no future.

So there was much surprise when details of the accused began to emerge, and they included some from wealthy backgrounds or with good jobs.

Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.

Snip

Huh. This seems like a bizarre sci-fi story set-up about mass hysteria caused by drugs or cosmic rays. Weird.

sounds more like a d20 Modern campaign, only the characters got arrested by the police at the first hurdle.. I blame the GM (PM?) for being a dick.

[Valmy]

I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?

I am pretty sure those coal mines would be out of business today anyway.  Besides they were big money losers.

What is this love affair with the mining and burning of coal?  It seems to crop up in Brit threads all the time.

I thought Euros were all about the clean energy and reducing emissions and all that.

[Razgovory]

Bollocks.

There is no need to deploy armed police to deal with an opportunistic rabble. As soon as the police realised that they could engage these rioters with the support of the public the situation was sorted.

Shame if your business got looted between the time the riots started and the police "realized" this.  To me, if you have riots lasting several days spanning a large area something is not working right.

I think that the police were initially inhibited by what you Americans would call "liberal opinion". Once they realised that the public were behind them things could get resolved quite quickly.

I didn't know the police operated on a popularity contest model.  That's really asinine.  You don't let crimes occur if people are simply sympathetic to it.  If that was true it would be legal to simply murder people who are unpopular.

[Ideologue]

The boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, from Romford, east of London, admitted stealing a £50 ($80) trash can from a department store, the Guardian reported.

The fuck?  Does it pick up trash on its own?

[Martinus]

I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?

I am pretty sure those coal mines would be out of business today anyway.  Besides they were big money losers.

What is this love affair with the mining and burning of coal?  It seems to crop up in Brit threads all the time.

I thought Euros were all about the clean energy and reducing emissions and all that.

Funny how you seem to be reading into my post stuff that wasn't ever there.