Britain burns - Chavs ruin civilization

[Ideologue]

These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.

I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?

I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.

Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .

The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.

Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.

Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.

The employment rate isn't the converse of an unemployment rate, right?

That is, I can't imagine the unemployment rate is 30%.

[Neil]

"[Britain is] two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets. The rich and the poor."
- Benjamin Disraeli

This isn't 1870 anymore.  Otherwise, you would be busy getting beaten to death in the Russian Empire for you unsavory crimes.

[The Brain]

These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.

I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?

I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.

Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .

The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.

Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.

Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.

The employment rate isn't the converse of an unemployment rate, right?

That is, I can't imagine the unemployment rate is 30%.

There's employed, unemployed and other. Like students and shit.

[Barrister]

Remember unemployment rate is determined by looking at people who are LOOKING FOR WORK.  This is meant to prevent classifying stay at home parents, or the idle rich, or people incapable of working, from being listed as "unemployed".

But it also means that a person who is capable of working, but merely sits on social assistance, is not counted.

Taking a look at workforce "participation rates" can be very eye opening.

[Ideologue]

Remember unemployment rate is determined by looking at people who are LOOKING FOR WORK.  This is meant to prevent classifying stay at home parents, or the idle rich, or people incapable of working, from being listed as "unemployed".

But it also means that a person who is capable of working, but merely sits on social assistance, is not counted.

Taking a look at workforce "participation rates" can be very eye opening.

Okay, "labor participation rate" is the phrase I usually see.

[Neil]

The employment rate isn't the converse of an unemployment rate, right?

That is, I can't imagine the unemployment rate is 30%.

No.  The employment rate includes older teenagers, as well as the diabled, housewives, criminals and other people who are not looking for work.  It's just the ratio of working age people (15-64) against the number of people employed.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly 

[The Brain]

Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly 

RACIST

[Martinus]

These problems have been a long time in the making, forty years or so, what interests me is whether we have the will to start turning things around...................it will take a long time.

I really wonder what you can do. Mrs Thatcher destroyed a lot of places where these people's parents worked. Now is the City prepared to have their status downgraded so Britain becomes home to traditional industry again?

I don't think that the rioters are desperate to get down a coal mine or start welding steel plates in a shipyard. There are plenty of opportunities for people to make a living in the UK. The woman leaping from the burning building in what is becoming an iconic image.......she is from Poland ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024684/Croydon-riots-2011-Monika-Konczyk-woman-leapt-flames-pictured.html ). During the boom we had to rely on immigrants to fill posts.

Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate .

The employment rate in the UK is nearly 70%, it is only 60% in Poland.

Or take a look at the average wage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

$43k in the UK and and only $18k in Poland...............these are PPP figures btw, the difference is even greater in real $.

Which is not to get at Poland, we had the riots and you guys didn't. But the idea that the cause was a lack of decent job opportunities in the UK is risible.

I think 1/3 of Polish people live off farming. It's possible they are counted among the 40% which would skew the rates.

[Ideologue]

Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly 

Okay, I was just a little confused by the terminology.

I can speak English properly.   Well, arguably.

My skills include being able to punch a chav in the face because I was raised in America and I have a delusional lack of fear of Europeans.  SPONSOR ME.

[Martinus]

Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly 

I don't know. Not every society has the same kind of economy and the same kind of jobs available. I think Britain went too much into a flexible, service and finance based economy. Such economies do not generate a lot of job for low-fliers.

[Barrister]

All I know is this country is having to import workers to fill a lot of retail service positions (and a number of businesses have closed due to an inability to find workers for such positions). 

[Richard Hakluyt]

Ide...........the employment rate in the US is about 67%, at least until recently, it is probably a bit lower now; the UK has a notably high employment rate..........so it is irritating when people say there are no jobs. Of course it is probably true that there are no jobs for illiterate thugs who can't even speak English properly 

I don't know. Not every society has the same kind of economy and the same kind of jobs available. I think Britain went too much into a flexible, service and finance based economy. Such economies do not generate a lot of job for low-fliers.

I'm sure that places like my hometown (Seaham) would greatly benefit from a nice big factory opening up. Seaham used to have 3 coalmines that employed 4000 workers, all 3 closed in the late 80s early 90s. That is a town of 25,000 people that suddenly lost its livelihood.

But I can't see that anyone would want to open a factory in the centre of London or Manchester...........it is simply too costly, and all the talented workers would turn their noses up at it anyway.

[mongers]

If I had to limit this to one cause only, I'd say it's pure greed; the people who've rioted and looted seem to know only this motivator, but it's also part of a top down process, whether it's corruption in politics or the utter lack of self-restraint shown in the top echelons of the financial services. 

And from personal experience, greed and the acquisition of material things at any cost seems to have 'corrupted' plenty of people I've encountered in day to day life. 

That's not to say there isn't a slight majority of decent law abiding people in this country, but the way the economic and political game is now set up, they haven't particularly benefited from the 'good times' of recent years.

The people I'm talking about are those in the 2nd, 3rd and possibly part of the 4th decile of the population, who've seen very little increase in real income over the last two decades and in many instances seeing long term declines. And there also those most affected by the rapid inflation we're now experiencing in terms of food, fuel and day to day living costs.

I believe there's a sizeable section of the US population in a similar situation.

[Razgovory]

The left still thinks that we should throw money at the problem, they never seem to get the fact that is deeply insulting to all the people on lower wages who would never dream of stooping to such crimes. Anyway, we don't have the money 

Arming your police forces isn't free.

The spark for the riots was actually an over-zealous cop using his submachine gun to kill a gangster. No loss IMO, but despite the riots there is no desire to emulate Continental or American styles of policing. There are plenty of firearms cops in the UK, they are deployed when needed.

Er, the fact there are currently roving gangs burning and looting at will through out the UK indicates they are not being deployed when needed.