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Britain burns - Chavs ruin civilization

Started by Tamas, August 07, 2011, 08:11:34 AM

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Viking

Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.

yes, the belief that they are entitled to reject the authority of the state and they feel entitled to use the mere presence of an "institutionally racist" metropolitan police force on the streets after a fire fight where the criminal lost to the cops.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Palisadoes

I think most people would like our police to take a firmer stance and more preventative action, though this seems to be equally criticised (ironically the Guardian is usually carrying the torch in criticising the police). The police can never win!

Viking

First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Martinus

Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.

yes, the belief that they are entitled to reject the authority of the state and they feel entitled to use the mere presence of an "institutionally racist" metropolitan police force on the streets after a fire fight where the criminal lost to the cops.

Nah, I think you got it wrong. What's happening in the streets of London is not *because* of something special - it's just juvenile delinquents behaving the way juvenile delinquents behave. There is nothing special that differentiates them from juvenile delinquents in Paris, Berlin or Warsaw.

The difference is in the lack of proper (not necessarily more violent, but faster and more decisive) response from the police. But with goofs like Boris Johnson running the city, it's to be expected (it's a pity the choice there seems to be really between equally incompetent and detestable Johnson and Livingstone).

Barrister

Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 08, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
But, seriously... this is all about a rejection of the authority of the state by a minority that the state has gone out of it's way to create and coddle.
No, it's a culture of entitlement.

I think it's more basic - just a lack of respect for authority, for the rights of others.  Going out rooting is just seen as "fun" if they think they can get away with it.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Viking

After two decades of being under attack for being racist, cruel, brutal and inhuman they have tried to satisfy the demands of the unsatisfiable. The "community" seems to have immediately jumped to the conclusion of murder and the mere presence of police on the streets that they are supposed to keep safe is seen as a provocation.

I'm not referring to the chaos and looting related to the rioting; that is the local yobs just stealing shit cause they can get away with it. I referring to the issue that provoked the riots. A notorious criminal pulls a gun on the police, gets shot. The population then revolts against the insult of the police being on the streets itself.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Martinus

QuotePanic on the streets of London
Panic on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
Could life ever be sane again ?
The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
I wonder to myself
Hopes may rise on the Grasmere
But Honey Pie, you're not safe here
So you run down
To the safety of the town
But there's Panic on the streets of Carlisle
Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
I wonder to myself

Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music that they constantly play
IT SAYS NOTHING TO ME ABOUT MY LIFE
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music they constantly play


On the Leeds side-streets that you slip down
Provincial towns you jog 'round
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ

:cool:

Tamas

Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.

I don't understand why did not those happen this afternoon the latest. Even the Hungarian police knew they need to be deployed in case of a riot.

Barrister

Quote from: Tamas on August 08, 2011, 04:40:57 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.

I don't understand why did not those happen this afternoon the latest. Even the Hungarian police knew they need to be deployed in case of a riot.

I'm pretty sure the Hungarian police are less concerned about appearing to be 'sensitive' and not urged to engage in 'dialogue'.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Ed Anger

I enjoyed the live coverage on CNN international.



Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

The Brain

If the state doesn't think it's its job to maintain law and order in the streets why pay any taxes?

In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Neil

Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2011, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Brazen on August 08, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 08, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Time for an afternoon and evening capital wide curfew to be imposed upon all 16year olds and younger ? :unsure:
Yes, just discussing that with my dad. Rubber bullets and water cannons wouldn't hurt either.
I read an interesting editorial in the Guardian, where the author claimed this is a result of the police effectively abdicating control over the "rough neighborhoods" by refusing to engage in good old fashioned crime prevention there.

Your politicians and policemen should really read some books about Sam Vimes.
The Guardian's opinion pages might carry more weight if they didn't disregard crime prevention as racist.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Barrister

Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2011, 04:49:56 PM
In the face of crime first you hit hard and crush it, then later you can get all cuddly if you want. That's basic psychology.

No.  Not at all.

But if simple platitudes about how easy fighting crime is makes you happy, then I don't want to take that away from you. :hug:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Warspite

"Good old fashioned" crime prevention got us the riots of the 1980s, something the crush'em law 'n' order crowd seem to forget.

This is essentially a dispersed series of hit and run lootings, setting alight to the odd building which provides a powerful visual point long after the rioters have been cleared.

I can't help but feel a bit blase about all this, but maybe that's because the last riot I lived through turned into a pogrom and saw the fall of a dictator.
" SIR – I must commend you on some of your recent obituaries. I was delighted to read of the deaths of Foday Sankoh (August 9th), and Uday and Qusay Hussein (July 26th). Do you take requests? "

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