Britain burns - Chavs ruin civilization

[Slargos]

Social welfare doesn't alter the basic inequality of human society.

Maybe not food-stamp welfare. This is not the case for Sweden, however. Plenty of Swedish kids (unemployment in the <26 category straddled 30% last year, IIRC) go on welfare without rioting. The rioters are largely immigrants with a leavening of ideologically motivated (many of whom are simply vandals looking for an excuse) anarchists or communists.

[Gups]

I also recommend especially Berkut's and grumbler's posts in this thread, which call my prediction of social unrests in the UK as an evidence of me being an ignorant Pollack who has no idea about the real state of the European countries.

I feel vindicated. 

You predicted a revolution. This is not a revolution.

Even if the riots could somwhow be described as a revolution, your analysis is just wrong. This is nothing to do with people feeling disempowered or whatever. It's a bunch of hood rats on the rob because they know (thanks to instant messaging etc) that the police ain't gonna be able to stop them.

Cliff notes: You're still an idiot.

[Martinus]

Cliff notes: You're still an idiot.

And you are still a paki.

See, we can both insult each other. Isn't it nice?

[Gups]

You're only insulting yourself.

[Martinus]

You're only insulting yourself.

Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.

[alfred russel]

A couple of weeks ago, I thought Murdoch desperately needed some disaster somewhere in the world to deflect attention. First there were the shootings in Norway. Then global markets go into dysfunction. Then we have a disaster in Afghanistan. Now we have London descending into Lord of the Flies.

You guys need to just let Murdoch go; the investigation is clearly provoking some evil power.

[HVC]

A couple of weeks ago, I thought Murdoch desperately needed some disaster somewhere in the world to deflect attention. First there were the shootings in Norway. Then global markets go into dysfunction. Then we have a disaster in Afghanistan. Now we have London descending into Lord of the Flies.

You guys need to just let Murdoch go; the investigation is clearly provoking some evil power.

he's teh head of some evil cabal pulling the string to cause world discord

[Eddie Teach]

Better to bring matters to a head in that case. Strike while Sauron is still gathering his strength.

[Martinus]

A couple of weeks ago, I thought Murdoch desperately needed some disaster somewhere in the world to deflect attention. First there were the shootings in Norway. Then global markets go into dysfunction. Then we have a disaster in Afghanistan. Now we have London descending into Lord of the Flies.

You guys need to just let Murdoch go; the investigation is clearly provoking some evil power.

Yeah I thought yesterday that he is goddamn lucky with so many shit happening in the world right now, especially if you consider that July and August are usually rather calm and it looked like the Murdoch thing will be the story of the summer 2011.

[Ideologue]

Touche, but on the other hand, the Braddock siblings are almost as bad as Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor as far as dysfunctional families are concerned.  Not to mention Rachel Summers.

But Betsy Braddock and Rachel Summers were hot.

[Zanza]

Here're the posts I am talking about, from March:

It seems to me that for the last 20 years or so, Britain has created a sort of unwritten socio-economic contract, in which the rich generated wealth by vacuuming world cash through financial markets and giving it out as welfare handouts to the underclass, to prevent unrest and keep the internal consumption going (the City high-fliers do not buy cheap plasmas, and after Mrs. Thatcher effectively shut down Britain's heavy industry and then the rest of manufacturing industry fled abroad, there is preciously little wealth generating jobs left in the UK). Essentially, the beautiful eloi (sp?) worked and shared their wealth with the ugly lazy and poor morlocks.

Now that this steady flow of money into the economy has stopped due to the financial markets' crisis and the eloi are closing down the gravy tap by the "necessary cuts" (it's funny how the lucky, privileged rich do not see they are effectively breaking that contract that allowed them to keep/attain their position, and instead see it as justice against the lazy welfare underclass), what is the chance of the morlocks rising up and eating them?

Discuss.

It's actually interesting how in retrospect the German economy - for so many years called the "sick man of Europe" - proves to be the right model, based on domestic production (and hefty foreign trade surplus) coupled with some of the best social protections, ensuring solid redistribution of goods (not to mention making sure tax havens are not a valid option).

Compare this to the UK model, where the tory government hires, as its "fiscal responsibility expert", a guy who got rich on a store chain by avoiding paying taxes in the UK thanks to his Monaco-resident

If you create an economy where more than 5-10% or so of the working age populace simply has no option for gainful employment, and then decide to cut welfare to the "lazy ones", you are on a straight way to social unrest.

Having a "slimmed down" economy, that is not weighed down by mass employment of the working class has its advantages but you need to address social costs (and share the wealth with those who are left out) rather than sneer at them from your City/White Hall ivory tower for being unable to find a job.

What Germany does best is that they seem to factor social costs (and social "welfare", not necessarily meaning hand outs but the well-being of the populace at large) into their economic model. You can't build an economy that simply treats employees as a "resource" that is subject to the same rules of supply and demand as raw materials or manufacturing equipment - because sooner or later you will have a revolution on your hands. I think Brits have forgotten about it.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php?topic=4722.0

Your characterization of the German economy is based more on reputation than on fact.

Germany has cut its social system massively in the last decade. It has some of the lowest wages in Europe for a lot of services jobs. There isn't even a minimum wage, so some unqualified people work for as little as 4 Euro/hour. It's true that some manufacturing workers still have quite high salaries, but most people don't work in manufacturing. Income and wealth inequality in Germany is rising.

Here is a good article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704296704575431240767523752.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews

[...] But, despite the export-driven rebound, most German workers aren't getting any richer.

One in five are working in the low-wage sector, defined as earning less than €9 (about $11.50) an hour. Nearly a third of the job openings are temporary and often badly paid.

[...]

Chancellor Angela Merkel's government has hailed Germany's "job miracle" after whittling the jobless rate down to 7.6% of the work force, compared with unemployment levels of about 10% in the U.S. and France.

But the bulk of that reduction has come from the emergence of part-time jobs, often at low pay. That helps explain why German domestic demand has remained sluggish even as German exporters boast booming foreign orders.

[...]

By boosting productivity through investment and low wage increases in recent years, German businesses have gained a leg up over foreign competitors, and they hope to keep it that way.

Employer groups have argued against a countrywide, legal minimum wage, saying it would boost the price of unskilled labor and threaten more than a million jobs.

[...]

Average annual net income per employee has fallen steadily since 2004, reaching €15,815 in 2009, down from €16,471 in 2004.

As part of the so-called Hartz IV labor-market overhaul program to support low-income groups, the government has spent €50 billion in welfare subsidies since 2005 for people who earn too little to make a living.

Lobby groups for low-paid and unemployed workers worry that an increasing number of jobs have to be subsidized. "Hartz IV has made it possible for companies to get their profit subsidies from the general public, with companies paying starvation wages while those affected need Hartz IV to survive," said Martin Behrsing, spokesman for the Unemployed Forum Germany.

Another measure for low-income workers is looking at people who earn two-thirds or less of the average income. By that measure, the number of low-paid workers rose by almost 2.3 million people to 6.55 million from 1998 to 2008, according to a study by the Institute for Employment and Qualification at Duisburg-Essen University .

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's employment outlook report 2010 shows that 21.5% of Germans worked in the low-pay sector in 2008, up from 16% in 1998. In an international comparison, the share of low-paid workers remained unchanged at 24.5% in the U.S. and increased only slightly in the U.K. to 21.2% from 20.8%. The average among OECD countries is 16%.

"I think we have seen in Germany for quite a while now an expansion of the low-wage sector, since the mid, late 1990s," said Herwig Immervoll, an economist with the Paris-based OECD. "There is an increase in the inequality in Germany. We see this in other countries too, but maybe not as much as in Germany."

[...]

[Brazen]

You're only insulting yourself.

Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.

That's no excuse for the lowest, laziest form of racism. You might as well go and join one of the EDL vigilante groups. Though you'd have to work on your accent first.

[Martinus]

You're only insulting yourself.

Pretending to take higher ground would work better if you didn't insult me first, you know.

That's no excuse for the lowest, laziest form of racism. You might as well go and join one of the EDL vigilante groups. Though you'd have to work on your accent first.

I didn't see you coming in as a third party defender when I was being called a Polack.

[Syt]

The 2010 Student Protests were not a riot.

Yeah, that was totally not staged for effect.

[Razgovory]

From Reuters:

Sales of baseball bats and batons have shot up more than 5,000 percent in the last 24 hours on Amazon's British website, as London suffered its worst violent unrest in decades.

Seven of the top 10 'movers and shakers' in Amazon's sports and leisure list were baseball bats of various kinds, their sales since Monday rising between 1,756 percent and 5,149 percent.

A "military police telescopic baton," described by the manufacturer as useful for "effective self-defence with extra reach," was the 110th best selling item among Amazon's sports and leisure customers, up from a ranking of 5,622 just 24 hours ago. Actual sale number of the items are not given.

Many Londoners have questioned how rioters had been able to loot and ransack shops on Monday night with impunity, with the stretched police force criticised for its inability to cope and reluctance to use heavy tactics.

The Metropolitan police have vowed "robust" action which may include rubber bullets if disorder breaks out for a fourth day on Tuesday.

Amazon UK could not immediately be reached for comment.

Well, on the plus side the British may take up a non-pussy sport like Baseball.