Britain burns - Chavs ruin civilization

[Brazen]

Back when I though Nick Clegg could save the world, he made this prediction about a Conservative government and austerity measures leading to riots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItK1izQIwo

[Martinus]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

[Slargos]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

Bull. Shit.

This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.

[Martinus]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

Bull. Shit.

This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.

Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.

The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.

This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.

[Slargos]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

Bull. Shit.

This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.

Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.

The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.

This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.

People haven't been mowed down in Sweden since the 30s (and before that it wasn't exactly common, a dozen people killed which caused such an outrage it still ripples 80 years later), but we still didn't see this kind of behaviour until the 90s.

[Martinus]

But there was a threat of this and the sight of policemen in the streets, I presume.

[Malthus]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

Bull. Shit.

This is a mud/chav problem, not poverty problem.

Who the fuck said it is a poverty problem? I said people behave like this when they can. As someone said, our civilization is three hot meals away from barbarity - you could add a corollary that it is also a bunch of cops away from that.

The problem is these districts were not being policed. The chavs called the bluff in one place and saw they can behave like they want to with impunity - and so chavs in other places realized that they can too, and they did.

This is not because people today are different, but because in the past if they tried something like this, they would have been mowed down.

Reminds me of the Vancouver Riot. There was no 'structural' reason for it at all - the rioters rioted because they could get away with it.

The main feature these days is social media, which makes it much easier to organize a critical mass of rioters.

[Tamas]

But there was a threat of this and the sight of policemen in the streets, I presume.

You raise a fair point, but let us not forget the very recent example of Japan. When there is a natural or man-made disaster in most cultures, there is looting and whatnot. Yet Japanese remained orderly. There is culture involved.

[Brazen]

You don't get poverty-driven riots organised over BBM.

As those chav girls said on the BBC interview, they did it to "show the rich and cops they can do what they want". "It's the government's fault. I dunno. The Conservatives or whatever."

[Syt]

What the UK desperately needs now is a tightening and expansion of surveillance measures.

[HVC]

Make a announcment the day before that anyone who shows up will be shot. Then mow 'em done. they've been forewarned.

[Valmy]

As those chav girls said on the BBC interview, they did it to "show the rich and cops they can do what they want". "It's the government's fault. I dunno. The Conservatives or whatever."

Wow she knew what political party was in power.  Nice.

[Palisadoes]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

My conclusion is derived from the fact that most of these rioters come from broken homes and have thus been brought up largely by the state. The state is a monolithic entity which is incapable of catering for the emotional needs of children. This is why state-led parenting is doomed to failure - it cannot satisfy the needs of children as well as a loving family can.

Of course, this isn't to say the state should have no role in raising children. Indeed I would say the state should be there to assist families where it is needed. However, the state shouldn't be encouraging dependency on itself as this will inevitably remove dependency on local communities, thereafter destroying the sense of belonging to a community. A lack of this sense of belonging makes it much easier to destroy the community you live in because you would not feel that you are doing yourself or your own any damage.

Furthermore, your conclusion that people behave this was "when they can" is absolute nonsense. People are not inherently rioters or anarchists. To make the excuse that they can't be helped from rioting as if it is the natural way of things is frankly absurd.

[Martinus]

The nationalisation of child raising is certainly proving to be a failure.

This sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. I hate how now everyone will come out of woodwork to trump their pet cause (austerity measures, "nationalisation of child raising", the rent being too high) as the cause, whereas the cause is simple. People behave like this when they can.

My conclusion is derived from the fact that most of these rioters come from broken homes and have thus been brought up largely by the state. The state is a monolithic entity which is incapable of catering for the emotional needs of children. This is why state-led parenting is doomed to failure - it cannot satisfy the needs of children as well as a loving family can.

Of course, this isn't to say the state should have no role in raising children. Indeed I would say the state should be there to assist families where it is needed. However, the state shouldn't be encouraging dependency on itself as this will inevitably remove dependency on local communities, thereafter destroying the sense of belonging to a community.

Furthermore, your conclusion that people behave this was "when they can" is absolute nonsense. People are not inherently rioters or anarchists. To make the excuse that they can't be helped from rioting as if it is the natural way of things is frankly absurd.

As I said before, bull shit.

[Valmy]

Well I think you are both right.  The vast majority of a population just wants to be left alone.  The smaller minority of people have socio-pathic tendencies...which is why we tolerate cops going around eating donuts and roughing up jaywalkers.