http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34987697
QuotePolice are attending a shooting in California, with reports of 20 victims.
The San Bernardino Fire Department tweeted that it was responding to a "20 victim shooting incident" and it was working to clear the scene.
It is still a "very active scene" and police are trying to secure the building, said a spokeswoman from the San Bernardino Police Department.
There may be up to three gunmen she said, and the shooters were heavily armed and possibly wearing body armour.
She did not confirm the number of victims.
A local reporter tweeted that people are being evacuated from the Inland Regional Center, a non-profit medical and health organisation.
Quote
Up to 20 shot in San Bernardino, 'active shooters' sought (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html)
Up to 20 people were shot Wednesday at a social services office in San Bernardino, and officials said they were looking for one or more "active shooters."
The San Bernardino Fire Department said the shooting took place on the 1300 block of Waterman Avenue, near Orange Show Road.
Sgt. Vicki Cervantes, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino Police Department, told reporters at the scene up to three shooters were reported inside the Inland Regional Center. Officers have not secured the building and going door-to-door.
The suspects, she said, are heavily armed and were possibly wearing body armor.
"It's a very active scene," Cervantes said. "It's very fluid."
Photographs on social media showed heavily-armed police surrounding a neighborhood in San Bernardino.
Officials sais they got a call about the shooting at about 11 a.m.
The Inland Regional Center provides services to disabled people and others in need.
The organization's website states: "Inland Regional Center was built on the foundation of three core values – independence, inclusion, and empowerment. In following these core values, we hope to help provide each individual with a service system that helps identify and eliminate barriers for individuals with developmental disabilities and their families so they can closely live a typical lifestyle."
If the quoted facts hold up, this is much bigger than just another gun nut.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
QuoteCNN)[Breaking news update, posted at 2:57 p.m. ET]
CNN affiliate KABC reported that the shooting took place at Inland Regional Center, a facility for people with developmental disabilities.
Inland Regional Center's Facebook page says it employs nearly 670 staff at its facilities in San Bernardino and Riverside counties, providing services to more than 30,200 people.
It aims to "work on a personal, one-on-one basis with people with developmental disabilities to make their lives better as they define it."
It is unclear how many people were at the San Bernardino facility at the time of the shooting.
[Previous story, posted at 2:48 p.m. ET]
Police in San Bernardino, California, tweeted a warning Wednesday that there was an active shooter situation.
There were one to three suspects, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department tweeted, citing the police department.
The sheriff's department also tweeted that there was an "active shooter in the area of Orange Show Rd/Waterman Ave near Park Center."
It urged people to avoid the area.
The San Bernardino Fire Department said on Twitter it was responding to reports of a "20 victim shooting incident."
San Bernardino is a city of just over 200,000 people located 60 miles east of Los Angeles.
Bitch. <_<
CBS News: JUST IN: Bomb squad in the process of attempting to neutralize apparent explosive device in San Bernardino, law enforcement source says.
What a bizarre institution to target. Even for crazy gun nuts.
A group of them planting bombs and wearing body armor? Some sort of militia?
Damn.
Reddit live thread (https://www.reddit.com/live/w0nn1o5hu90y)
According to Reddit, three attackers is confirmed. Two are white, but wearing ski masks.
From the Globe and Mail
QuoteAt least one person opened fire at or near a state social services agency in the Southern California city of San Bernardino on Wednesday and as many as 20 people were wounded, authorities said.
The San Bernardino Police Department said on Twitter that it had "confirmed 1 to 3 possible suspects" and multiple victims in the shooting. The agency called it an "active shooter" incident.
The San Bernardino Fire Department said in a tweet that it was responding to reports of 20 victims.
A police spokeswoman told the Los Angeles Times that the suspects were heavily armed and possibly wearing body armor, and CBS reported that a bomb squad was on the scene, trying to defuse what was believed to be an explosive device.
A spokeswoman for the Los Angeles Field Office of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said agents were heading to the scene.
It was not immediately clear if any suspects had been taken into custody.
The shooting took place at the Inland Regional Center, one of 21 facilities serving people with developmental disabilities run by the state, said Nancy Lungren, spokeswoman for the California Department of Developmental Services.
Television images on CNN showed people being evacuated from the building, their arms raised, as triage stations were set up outside. Police and SWAT teams were seen surrounding the building.
A spokeswoman from nearby Loma Linda Medical Center said the hospital was expecting patients momentarily. "We're all kind of on standby right now - it could be any minute," spokeswoman Briana Pastorino said
The social services agency is among regional centers throughout California that administer, authorize and pay for assistance to people with disabilities such as autism and mental retardation.
On an average day, doctors at the regional centers would be evaluating toddlers whose parents have concerns and case workers meeting with developmentally disabled adults. Lungren said that the San Bernardino facility is one of the state's largest and busiest.
The shooting in California comes less than a week after a gunman killed three people and wounded nine in a shooting rampage at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs. In October, a gunman killed nine people at a college in Oregon and in June a white gunman killed nine black churchgoers in South Carolina.
:(
:(
The heck?
From BBC:
QuotePolice are searching for suspects in an SUV
Posted at 20:39
Police are now searching for an SUV that fled the scene of a mass shooting that left up to 20 people injured inside of a social services building in San Bernadino, federal law enforcement sources told the Los Angeles Times.
At least three suspected shooters vanished from the building after the gunfire, the source said. Police have also used a robot to detonate a suspicious device found on the premises, according to the sources, who requested anonymity because the investigation is active and ongoing.
Police on the scene were assembling a battering ram to gain access to the building, and investigators may believe one suspect was still inside, the source said.
Wait they let them escape?
QuotePolice have also used a robot to detonate a suspicious device found on the premises
One unskilled laborer on welfare.
The Inland Regional's Twitter account gives you an idea of the people and patients there. https://twitter.com/InlandRegional?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
What sick bastards would attack an institution like this? :mad: :( :cry:
Quote from: The Brain on December 02, 2015, 03:47:20 PM
QuotePolice have also used a robot to detonate a suspicious device found on the premises
One unskilled laborer on welfare.
:lol:
Yeah even for them this is a new low.
The Brain and Martinus being callous dicks. What a surprise.
There was apparently some sort of award party for San Bernardino country workers going on.
Quote from: Jacob on December 02, 2015, 03:54:53 PM
The Brain and Martinus being callous dicks. What a surprise.
Too many responses, too few fucks to give. :cool:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 02, 2015, 03:55:31 PM
There was apparently some sort of award party for San Bernardino country workers going on.
I see. Maybe anti-government nutcases.
Quote from: Jacob on December 02, 2015, 03:54:53 PM
The Brain and Martinus being callous dicks. What a surprise.
WTF :unsure:
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 03:17:38 PM
What a bizarre institution to target. Even for crazy gun nuts.
A group of them planting bombs and wearing body armor? Some sort of militia?
This is really weird. Strange target, three attackers, the attackers made plans to escape and then did. Sometimes spree killers attack multiple targets some distance from one another.
Some reports that just came over the PD scanner make it sound like it might be mooncrickets.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
Some reports that just came over the PD scanner make it sound like it might be mooncrickets.
Mooncrickets?
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
Some reports that just came over the PD scanner make it sound like it might be mooncrickets.
Ok. That would be weird for them also.
Quote from: Jacob on December 02, 2015, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
Some reports that just came over the PD scanner make it sound like it might be mooncrickets.
Mooncrickets?
Sorry, channeling CdM.
Islamic extremists.
I saw such stuff being reported, too, but I didn't want to post that, what with Jake on the SJW war path. I admit this does not seem like their usual M.O.
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/
Quote(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/12/mass_shootings.png&w=1484)
The San Bernardino shooting would be the 355th mass shooting this year, according to a mass shooting tracker maintained by the Guns Are Cool subreddit. The Reddit tracker defines mass shootings as incidents in which four or more people, including the gunman, are killed or injured by gunfire. The Mass Shooting Tracker is different from other shooting databases in that it uses a broader definition of mass shooting — the old FBI definition focused on four or more people killed as part of a single shooting.
It would be also be the second mass shooting just today -- in the early morning hours, one person was killed and three were injured in an incident in Savannah, Georgia.
Speaking after the Colorado Springs shooting last week, President Obama urged Americans to not let this type of violence "become normal." But the data show that this type of incident already is normal. There have been more mass shootings than calendar days so far this year.
The number of mass shootings so far this year has already surpassed the total number of mass shootings in 2014, according to the Reddit tracker. And the pace is well above 2013's pace, when a total of 363 mass shootings occurred.
At the moment it is a completely baffling attack :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PM
I saw such stuff being reported, too, but I didn't want to post that, what with Jake on the SJW war path. I admit this does not seem like their usual M.O.
Too many responses, too few fucks to give.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
Some reports that just came over the PD scanner make it sound like it might be mooncrickets.
Er... :unsure:
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Huh? Well that just makes no sense.
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Urban dictionary (and my own recall of CdM's colourful language) confirms:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moon+cricket
I think Seedy called them moon worshipers (and dune coons).
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2015, 04:31:16 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Urban dictionary (and my own recall of CdM's colourful language) confirms:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moon+cricket
Ah well I just saw 'moon' and thought it was a CdM term for Muslims.
Anyway either way this one is pretty different from the typical run of the mill mass shooting.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:33:59 PM
Anyway either way this one is pretty different from the typical run of the mill mass shooting.
Yes. It seems to have been planned more thoroughly than going in, guns blazing, and causing as much havoc as possible till the cops arrive and kill you. So it's probably some sort of terror cell - Islamists, some militia loons, or something.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:29:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Huh? Well that just makes no sense.
I would have guessed it was another term for the moonies.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:33:59 PM
Anyway either way this one is pretty different from the typical run of the mill mass shooting.
Yeah, if it's true that the shooting started in an area of the centre that was rented by a third party, perhaps there's a connection to that third party (rather than the centre's usual clients being the intended target).
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2015, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:33:59 PM
Anyway either way this one is pretty different from the typical run of the mill mass shooting.
Yes. It seems to have been planned more thoroughly than going in, guns blazing, and causing as much havoc as possible till the cops arrive and kill you. So it's probably some sort of terror cell - Islamists, some militia loons, or something.
Because it is for public employee awards or whatever that strikes me as militia loons but we will see.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:29:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Huh? Well that just makes no sense.
At night you can hear them but you can't see them.
When I lived in NY there was this guy who upon learning I was a foreigner *insisted* on teaching me all manners of racial slurs (including the ones applicable to me, *particularly* those ones).
Well, this is pretty goddam horrible. :(
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Islam evolve from Moon worshippers, I guess it's a way to reference that.
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:29:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Huh? Well that just makes no sense.
At night you can hear them but you can't see them.
When I lived in NY there was this guy who upon learning I was a foreigner *insisted* on teaching me all manners of racial slurs (including the ones applicable to me, *particularly* those ones).
He was trying to help you expand your vocabulary.
Grim reading not matter who the killers are:
Quote
....
ABC News reports that there are 12 people dead but police have not confirmed that number
....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34987697 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34987697)
Quote from: Malthus on December 02, 2015, 04:45:18 PM
Well, this is pretty goddam horrible. :(
celedhring got over it though.
<sigh> so many senseless deaths.
Quote from: viper37 on December 02, 2015, 04:47:30 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Islam evolve from Moon worshippers, I guess it's a way to reference that.
Quebecois evolved from beavers.
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
When I lived in NY there was this guy who upon learning I was a foreigner *insisted* on teaching me all manners of racial slurs (including the ones applicable to me, *particularly* those ones).
It's good to know when people are talking about you.
Quote from: dps on December 02, 2015, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:29:32 PM
Quote from: celedhring on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
I thought "moon cricket" was a slur for black people.
Huh? Well that just makes no sense.
At night you can hear them but you can't see them.
When I lived in NY there was this guy who upon learning I was a foreigner *insisted* on teaching me all manners of racial slurs (including the ones applicable to me, *particularly* those ones).
He was trying to help you expand your vocabulary.
Not in a way that will cause anything but trouble and grief though.
Whoever is responsible for this, what a bizarre and heartless target.
:(
Car chase: http://abc7.com/live/ (http://abc7.com/live/)
Edit: Looks like 2 suspects dead, 3rd on the run.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 02, 2015, 06:13:58 PM
Car chase: http://abc7.com/live/ (http://abc7.com/live/)
Edit: Looks like 2 suspects dead, 3rd on the run.
Holy shit, that must've been some shootout.
Swat team got out their armored forklift-buldozer to check out the SUV. The little use toys are getting some work, eh.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 02, 2015, 06:13:58 PM
Car chase: http://abc7.com/live/ (http://abc7.com/live/)
Edit: Looks like 2 suspects dead, 3rd on the run.
If they suspect a bomb, don't know why they're squatting there bumper to bumper.
What the ...?
https://twitter.com/latimes/status/672199250080628737
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 07:05:08 PM
If they suspect a bomb, don't know why they're squatting there bumper to bumper.
They were worried about #2 playing possum in the back seat and didn't want to risk the puppy.
The BBC has been particularly rubbish on covering this story today, odd because sometimes they really go overboard on some trivial US celebrity stories, so what's the latest/ a good summation of what's happened so far?
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 07:23:08 PM
They were worried about #2 playing possum in the back seat and didn't want to risk the puppy.
So pull back and send in a droid. Don't see what getting up on top of the Yukon achieves.
I was in meetings all afternoon and learned about this right before dinner.
WTF :wacko:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 07:47:52 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 07:23:08 PM
They were worried about #2 playing possum in the back seat and didn't want to risk the puppy.
So pull back and send in a droid. Don't see what getting up on top of the Yukon achieves.
Let them do what they are good at and you stick to arguing on languish about shit that doesn't really matter. The police have gotten pretty good at killing folks nowadays. We even have thread for that.
Color me; Not interested in languish's tactical acumen. :lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 08:09:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 07:47:52 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 07:23:08 PM
They were worried about #2 playing possum in the back seat and didn't want to risk the puppy.
So pull back and send in a droid. Don't see what getting up on top of the Yukon achieves.
Let them do what they are good at and you stick to arguing on languish about shit that doesn't really matter.
Color me; Not interested in languish's tactical acumen. :lol:
Now, now B4, I think us 'armchairs' here would be pretty good at busting our way out of a paper bag, or at least finding a way to redefine it's characteristics such that our temporary entrapment wouldn't bother us whilst we waited for the eventual rain-shower to free us.
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 08:13:45 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 08:09:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 07:47:52 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2015, 07:23:08 PM
They were worried about #2 playing possum in the back seat and didn't want to risk the puppy.
So pull back and send in a droid. Don't see what getting up on top of the Yukon achieves.
Let them do what they are good at and you stick to arguing on languish about shit that doesn't really matter.
Color me; Not interested in languish's tactical acumen. :lol:
Now, now B4, I think us 'armchairs' here would be pretty good at busting our way out of a paper bag, or at least finding a way to redefine it's characteristics such that our temporary entrapment wouldn't bother us whilst we waited for the eventual rain-shower to free us.
Bravo, excellent wit. :lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 08:09:03 PM
Let them do what they are good at and you stick to arguing on languish about shit that doesn't really matter. The police have gotten pretty good at killing folks nowadays. We even have thread for that.
Color me; Not interested in languish's tactical acumen. :lol:
Fuck off.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 08:16:41 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 08:09:03 PM
Let them do what they are good at and you stick to arguing on languish about shit that doesn't really matter. The police have gotten pretty good at killing folks nowadays. We even have thread for that.
Color me; Not interested in languish's tactical acumen. :lol:
Fuck off.
That's more in form. :cheers:
Dead man and dead woman, lots of guns, lots of tactical gear with rumors of pipe bombs. Breaching an address now with a po-po RV.
I'm calling workplace violence, crazy white people-style, let's McVeigh this shit up. Gang-related, a distant 2nd.
I just saw a bresling news banner on CNN that one of the shooters was a woman. :huh:
Fucking autocorrect
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Dead man and dead woman, lots of guns, lots of tactical gear with rumors of pipe bombs. Breaching an address now with a po-po RV.
I'm calling workplace violence, crazy white people-style, let's McVeigh this shit up. Gang-related, a distant 2nd.
Ill hedge isis/Islamic radical wannabes
20.00
Craziness. And depressing.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:04:04 PM
Ill hedge isis/Islamic radical wannabes
20.00
Not completely unrealistic, but Islamists wouldn't have left. They'd have stayed, jacked up the body count, and become martyrs,
insha'allah. And they would have hit something much bigger.
Also, the masks and gear are a give-away. That's combo crazy white people/LA gangland shit from watching
Heat and
Dead Presidents too many times.
In any case, all of you suck at racial epithets. It's like watching chimps trying to figure out microwave directions on the back of a Lean Cuisine.
Yeah, homegrown terrorist / crazy white people sounds very possible.
I think Money is right. Not crazy moose limbs
I'll go with the long shot--Puerto Rican nationalists.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 09:12:55 PM
I think Money is right. Not crazy moose limbs
Wager is still untaken.
Well it couldn't be because of what happened at some meeting this thing was pretty premeditated and planned for it to be a hissy fit. Well unless said storming out was staged or something.
A moon cricket is not a name for Arab. I'd expect someone from Texas to know better. <_<
Quote from: dps on December 02, 2015, 09:16:59 PM
I'll go with the long shot--Puerto Rican nationalists.
:o :hmm:
Quote from: Jaron on December 02, 2015, 09:19:29 PM
A moon cricket is not a name for Arab. I'd expect someone from Texas to know better. <_<
He's not really from Texas, just a carpetbagger.
Quote from: Jaron on December 02, 2015, 09:19:29 PM
A moon cricket is not a name for Arab. I'd expect someone from Texas to know better. <_<
I am really ignorant when it comes to racial slurs.
Edit: Oh you mean Moldy.
Quote from: dps on December 02, 2015, 09:16:59 PM
I'll go with the long shot--Puerto Rican nationalists.
Rican's get no love.
Has all the hallmarks of the Symbionese Liberation Army.
Choice of target is very strange for militia nutters.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 02, 2015, 09:19:29 PM
A moon cricket is not a name for Arab. I'd expect someone from Texas to know better. <_<
I am really ignorant when it comes to racial slurs.
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
Didn't the SLA like to take hostages and then spew crazy shit while they had the media's attention? :hmm:
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Money back on form. :cool:
I'll go for an outside chance of an FBI informant/entrapment/sting case gone badly wrong?
Did anyone see the recent FBI documentary 'FBI Undercover'
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:21:44 PM
Choice of target is very strange for militia nutters.
This is really the strange thing.
Before someone says it I doubt it was disgruntled handicap folks.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Who cares about those fuckers? I don't.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:21:44 PM
Has all the hallmarks of the Symbionese Liberation Army.
Choice of target is very strange for militia nutters.
I'll regret saying this given the innocents who've been killed, but maybe murders they're crazed eugenicist?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Austrian chuckers? Porn stars?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Refer to them as eastern european.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Austrian chuckers? Porn stars?
I wouldn't mind patrolling with her
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbinscorner.com%2Fmails%2Ff%2Ffemale-soldiers-around-the-world%2F127298144678.jpg&hash=f04edce79ea32fd32010b838fd19a1eda1b4b185)
Too old, too fat
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Bohunk
(Thank you Wila Cather)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:11:45 PM
It's like watching chimps trying to figure out microwave directions on the back of a Lean Cuisine.
Man, I missed these kinds of insults! :hug:
Money and I were wrong. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 09:32:55 PM
Money and I were wrong. :Embarrass:
What was it then?
Cal is jumping to conclusions
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:19:04 PM
Well it couldn't be because of what happened at some meeting this thing was pretty premeditated and planned for it to be a hissy fit. Well unless said storming out was staged or something.
Or someone stormed out and someone else came in with guns. I'd call that the likeliest scenario. Likelier than the Feds faking the bit about the angry dude storming out as part of some conspiracy to take away everyone's guns, anyway.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:21:44 PM
Choice of target is very strange for militia nutters.
This is really the strange thing.
Before someone says it I doubt it was disgruntled handicap folks.
It's about taking back America from handicapped parking permit holders mooching off Obama's socialist government.
Quote
Multiple sources from multiple agencies identified one of the three attackers at the resource center to NBC News as Syed Farook. No other information was available, but a knowledgeable source said another member of the trio is believed to be Farook's brother.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/authorities-respond-report-shooting-san-bernardino-california-n472976
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 09:32:55 PM
Money and I were wrong. :Embarrass:
What happened?
Farook...is that an Indian name?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:35:42 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:21:44 PM
Choice of target is very strange for militia nutters.
This is really the strange thing.
Before someone says it I doubt it was disgruntled handicap folks.
It's about taking back America from handicapped parking permit holders mooching off Obama's socialist government.
I'm in danger!
See 11B post. I'm on my phone and half drunk in the jacuzzi so it's hard for me to post stuff right now
Syed Farouk, huh? If they were Islamists, why did they have a woman with them?
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 02, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Sayeed Farouk, huh? If they were Islamists, why did they have a woman with them?
There was a converted Kraut chick involved in the Kenyan mall attack.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 02, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Syed Farouk, huh? If they were Islamists, why did they have a woman with them?
Progressives maybe :lol:
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 02, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Syed Farouk, huh? If they were Islamists, why did they have a woman with them?
Women have been suicide bombers in the past but I cannot remember if they were in Islamist groups.
Not sure the ethnicity is relevant, after all it's quite possible for migrants/Arabs to be in dispute with authorities over a domestic/family issue and then escalating it into a mass shooting.
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 09:50:52 PM
Not sure the ethnicity is relevant, after all it's quite possible for migrants/Arabs to be in dispute with authorities over a domestic/family issue and then escalating it into a mass shooting.
Oh yeah not relevant at all when we are trying to find places for Syrian refugees.
Valmy Hezbollah or Hamas or one of those groups thar likes to attack Israel uses,female bombers. The Tampa Tigers used them also, in fact they killed Indian PM Gandhi with a,female suicide bomber but of course LTTE was not an Islamic group
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias wouldnt stoop that low.
TAMIL Tigers... fuck you Crapple
Meh, doesn't mean it's Islam-related terrorism.
Saw he's a US citizen. They're allowed to lose their asses over non-Islam-related bullshit. Hell, could've converted to Islam in prison for the Muslim meal accommodation. Why yes, I'll have the halal lamb surprise, PBUH.
That little asshole at UC Merced a few weeks ago had an Islamo-name, and he was trying to kill people over getting kicked out of a study group.
QuoteMultiple media outlets are reporting that one of the gunmen has been identified as Syed Farook. It's unclear if Farook was one of two suspects killed during the manhunt.
According to public records data, Farook was employed by the state in San Bernardino County in 2012 and 2013 as an "Environmental Health Specialist." He was also listed as "Business Taxes Representative" for the state of California in 2013.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias won't stoop that low.
It was being rented out to do some kind of public employee award ceremony or something I heard. That made me think the white breaders might want to hit it after all.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:51:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 09:50:52 PM
Not sure the ethnicity is relevant, after all it's quite possible for migrants/Arabs to be in dispute with authorities over a domestic/family issue and then escalating it into a mass shooting.
Oh yeah not relevant at all when we are trying to find places for Syrian refugees.
As in not relevant to the reasons for the attack, rather than what politicians/media will latch onto for controversies purposes.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 09:54:56 PM
Tampa Tigers
Your autocorrect needs to get its shit together.
Quote from: katmai on December 02, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
QuoteMultiple media outlets are reporting that one of the gunmen has been identified as Syed Farook. It's unclear if Farook was one of two suspects killed during the manhunt.
According to public records data, Farook was employed by the state in San Bernardino County in 2012 and 2013 as an "Environmental Health Specialist." He was also listed as "Business Taxes Representative" for the state of California in 2013.
There we go. Ex-employee out for revenge.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:56:16 PM
Meh, doesn't mean it's Islam-related terrorism.
Saw he's a US citizen. They're allowed to lose their asses over non-Islam-related bullshit. Hell, could've converted to Islam in prison for the Muslim meal accommodation. Why yes, I'll have the halal lamb surprise, PBUH.
That little asshole at UC Merced a few weeks ago had an Islamo-name, and he was trying to kill people over getting kicked out of a study group.
Random US citizen goes postal he doesn't team up with 3 buddies who all own Kevlar to do it.
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 09:50:52 PM
Not sure the ethnicity is relevant, after all it's quite possible for migrants/Arabs to be in dispute with authorities over a domestic/family issue and then escalating it into a mass shooting.
That's true. I'm not really getting a terrorist vibe from the guy, either. Here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/02/police-id-suspect-in-san-bernardino-massacre-as-syed-farook.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/02/police-id-suspect-in-san-bernardino-massacre-as-syed-farook.html)
QuoteFarook was a business taxes representative for the California State Board of Equalization, according to his LinkedIn profile. He is a 2003 graduate La Sierra High School, and most recently studied finance at California State University Fullerton until 2013.
[...]
Behind Farook, was a brightly lit home with low-slung sectional couches and boxes for appliances. The smell of basmati rice cooking came wafting through the door. A set of women's thong sandals outside of the security door.
He does have a beard, but it's a normal one--he also has a mustache. I think it's quite possible that the original story is true and he just went postal.
Quote from: katmai on December 02, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
QuoteMultiple media outlets are reporting that one of the gunmen has been identified as Syed Farook. It's unclear if Farook was one of two suspects killed during the manhunt.
According to public records data, Farook was employed by the state in San Bernardino County in 2012 and 2013 as an "Environmental Health Specialist." He was also listed as "Business Taxes Representative" for the state of California in 2013.
An ELF attack.
I wish I had been drunk when my auto-correct had me wishing Marty 'Happy Birthday Marvin' on facebook :lol: :blush:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias won't stoop that low.
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:59:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:56:16 PM
Meh, doesn't mean it's Islam-related terrorism.
Saw he's a US citizen. They're allowed to lose their asses over non-Islam-related bullshit. Hell, could've converted to Islam in prison for the Muslim meal accommodation. Why yes, I'll have the halal lamb surprise, PBUH.
That little asshole at UC Merced a few weeks ago had an Islamo-name, and he was trying to kill people over getting kicked out of a study group.
Random US citizen goes postal he doesn't team up with 3 buddies who all own Kevlar to do it.
:yes:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:00:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:59:40 PM
Random US citizen goes postal he doesn't team up with 3 buddies who all own Kevlar to do it.
:yes:
I'm not saying it wasn't planned, just that it's not Islamo-related.
Yeah him getting his brother and a lady friend to do it does add an unusual twist to the usual disgruntled employee script. But it is still possible.
Even money it ends up being Islamic.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 10:05:49 PM
Even money it ends up being Islamic.
Damon is was hoping you'd take wager the other way.
Good quality, level headed local reporting from a Mark Westwood from KCAA radio station, just gave a very informative extended interview on BBC America news.
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 10:07:57 PM
Good quality, level headed local reporting from a Mark Westwood from KCAA radio station, just gave a very informative extended interview on BBC America news.
Tells us squat
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:09:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 10:07:57 PM
Good quality, level headed local reporting from a Mark Westwood from KCAA radio station, just gave a very informative extended interview on BBC America news.
Tells us squat
Well I was commenting on the quality of his radio journalism, rather than the content, which now seems to have largely been reported in this thread.
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 10:14:50 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:09:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 02, 2015, 10:07:57 PM
Good quality, level headed local reporting from a Mark Westwood from KCAA radio station, just gave a very informative extended interview on BBC America news.
Tells us squat
Well I was commenting on the quality of his radio journalism, rather than the content, which now seems to have largely been reported in this thread.
Ah
Ok, I'm back from the hot tub and able to post coherently (it wasn't the alcohol, it was the lame iPhone). :sleep:
That's right, only knowing the guy's name we have no idea if he's an Islamic terrorist, or even a Muslim at all. However, a big slice of whitebread MURICA is immediately going to jump to that conclusion so I kind of half-hope he is some ISIS operative, since from a political standpoint he'll be turned into one rhetorically and used to push the 'no Syrians' agenda which quite frankly I find sickening and totally un-American. The politicians who have been selling that shit to the American people ought to be ashamed of themselves.
I actually have two acquaintances who are refugees from Islamic world violence; one is a friend's wife who is an Iraqi Chaldean Christian and who is the nicest person you could imagine (and also super HOTT :cool: ), and the other is a Muslim Bosniak who wouldn't hurt a fly. The problem in this country is that we have too few people who are exposed to immigrants from Muslim regions... or probably more accurately any immigrants at all... and so it's easy to imagine all are bad and intend to do harm, and in Kim Davis country the politicians who get sent to Washington feel compelled to pander to them, since as most of us know politicians' main interest is keeping themselves employed, not actually working toward the common good.
There was man and woman team that shot up Walmart a few years back. They got kicked out of the Clive Bundy "steal from the federal government" racist camp and then went on a rampage. That's the most similar thing I can think of.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 10:04:41 PM
Yeah him getting his brother and a lady friend to do it does add an unusual twist to the usual disgruntled employee script. But it is still possible.
I wonder if she was an active participant or just forced along for the ride. :hmm: Were there any reports that she was definitely one of the shooters?
Oh Cal I wish that was the case. I don't think so though. Being loaded with Latinos and going to school with them and living with them and having them at all levels of our society has not made everybody excited about Latino immigration. And they are basically western Christians.
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 10:23:17 PM
Oh Cal I wish that was the case. I don't think so though. Being loaded with Latinos and going to school with them and living with them and having them at all levels of our society has not made everybody excited about Latino immigration.
I am. :) We have tons of Mexicans in our town and it's great. Lots of authentic Mexican chow and a goodly number of hott broads too. :cool:
edit: also cheap gardeners
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias won't stoop that low.
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 10:23:17 PM
Oh Cal I wish that was the case. I don't think so though. Being loaded with Latinos and going to school with them and living with them and having them at all levels of our society has not made everybody excited about Latino immigration.
I am. :) We have tons of Mexicans in our town and it's great. Lots of authentic Mexican chow and a goodly number of hott broads too. :cool:
A lot of under the table contractors too.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 10:23:17 PM
Oh Cal I wish that was the case. I don't think so though. Being loaded with Latinos and going to school with them and living with them and having them at all levels of our society has not made everybody excited about Latino immigration.
I am. :) We have tons of Mexicans in our town and it's great. Lots of authentic Mexican chow and a goodly number of hott broads too. :cool:
Well I am to. But nothing makes the people rise up in rage like immigration reform.
@11B :sleep:
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias won't stoop that low.
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
Thanks, Captain Sergei Buzzkill.
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias won't stoop that low.
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
DG knows NASCAR. :o
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:25:22 PM
A lot of under the table contractors too.
Yeah but they do not want immigration reform either, then their workers might have rights and stuff.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:27:24 PM
DG knows NASCAR. :o
This should not be surprising. :huh:
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
Thanks, I'll have to remember that when the Assburger 500 rolls around, Rain Man.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:27:24 PM
DG knows NASCAR. :o
This should not be surprising. :huh:
He was commissar of the car klub at college. :yes:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:29:20 PM
Thanks, I'll have to remember that when the Assburger 500 rolls around, Rain Man.
:lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:27:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Target is just weird. Even cdm christened white bread militias won't stoop that low.
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
DG knows NASCAR. :o
Dreamcast or Playstation?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
Thanks, I'll have to remember that when the Assburger 500 rolls around, Rain Man.
:mad: There is no such race.
DG likes boring things. News at 11.
I'm just waiting for the first person to argue this wouldn't have happened if the blind and mentally handicapped had been armed.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2015, 10:37:12 PM
DG likes boring things. News at 11.
I'm just waiting for the first person to argue this wouldn't have happened if the blind and mentally handicapped had been armed.
Cruz
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:39:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2015, 10:37:12 PM
DG likes boring things. News at 11.
I'm just waiting for the first person to argue this wouldn't have happened if the blind and mentally handicapped had been armed.
Cruz
Cruz is blind?
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:33:10 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
Thanks, I'll have to remember that when the Assburger 500 rolls around, Rain Man.
:mad: There is no such race.
You'd be the reigning champion.
(https://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/you_win_prize_downs.jpg)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:56:16 PM
Meh, doesn't mean it's Islam-related terrorism.
Saw he's a US citizen. They're allowed to lose their asses over non-Islam-related bullshit. Hell, could've converted to Islam in prison for the Muslim meal accommodation. Why yes, I'll have the halal lamb surprise, PBUH.
That little asshole at UC Merced a few weeks ago had an Islamo-name, and he was trying to kill people over getting kicked out of a study group.
That won't matter when Trump and Cruz use his name to whip up the base.
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:33:10 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
Well, it's not like you'd have to chase anybody down. I mean, not as far, maybe. Or for very long. We're not talking drafting at Bristol, is what I'm trying to say. Hell, you know what I mean.
:huh: There is virtually no drafting at Bristol, you don't go fast enough there to draft.
Thanks, I'll have to remember that when the Assburger 500 rolls around, Rain Man.
:mad: There is no such race.
:lol:
That may not be the most sensitive picture to post in this thread.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 02, 2015, 10:41:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:56:16 PM
Meh, doesn't mean it's Islam-related terrorism.
Saw he's a US citizen. They're allowed to lose their asses over non-Islam-related bullshit. Hell, could've converted to Islam in prison for the Muslim meal accommodation. Why yes, I'll have the halal lamb surprise, PBUH.
That little asshole at UC Merced a few weeks ago had an Islamo-name, and he was trying to kill people over getting kicked out of a study group.
That won't matter when Trump and Cruz use his name to whip up the base.
Better late than never newsboy. I'm so disappointed.
Quote from: Maximus on December 02, 2015, 10:43:37 PM
That may not be the most sensitive picture to post in this thread.
No, certainly not, but this is languish not facebook.
Quote from: katmai on December 02, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
QuoteMultiple media outlets are reporting that one of the gunmen has been identified as Syed Farook. It's unclear if Farook was one of two suspects killed during the manhunt.
According to public records data, Farook was employed by the state in San Bernardino County in 2012 and 2013 as an "Environmental Health Specialist." He was also listed as "Business Taxes Representative" for the state of California in 2013.
It's the harbinger of a state bureaucrat uprising.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 10:44:56 PM
Quote from: Maximus on December 02, 2015, 10:43:37 PM
That may not be the most sensitive picture to post in this thread.
No, certainly not, but this is languish not facebook.
Let's not kid ourselves, Facebook is way worse.
Quote from: dps on December 02, 2015, 10:52:57 PM
Quote from: katmai on December 02, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
QuoteMultiple media outlets are reporting that one of the gunmen has been identified as Syed Farook. It's unclear if Farook was one of two suspects killed during the manhunt.
According to public records data, Farook was employed by the state in San Bernardino County in 2012 and 2013 as an "Environmental Health Specialist." He was also listed as "Business Taxes Representative" for the state of California in 2013.
It's the harbinger of a state bureaucrat uprising.
Bureaucrats are loyal :mad:
Maybe Cal was right.
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471
Not clips stupid cnn broad. Magazines.
Second name release citizen of Qatar
Tayyeep Bin Ardogan or some b.s. like that.
Ok now it is looking like Islamism.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 12:10:07 AM
What can men do against such reckless hate?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelandofshadow.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2FGandalfStaff3.jpg&hash=94044fee0ea29aff087c07ec310ffd0970c8d731)
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 11:56:36 PM
Ok now it is looking like Islamism.
It is?
And 11B's name has been reported as hoax? Shows shouldn't listen to fox news reporters.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:16:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 11:56:36 PM
Ok now it is looking like Islamism.
It is?
And 11B's name has been reported as hoax? Shows shouldn't listen to fox news reporters.
:huh:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:19:07 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:16:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 11:56:36 PM
Ok now it is looking like Islamism.
It is?
And 11B's name has been reported as hoax? Shows shouldn't listen to fox news reporters.
:huh:
The name you posted has been retracted from what I read. Saying whomever reported it (was cited as a fox news reporter to break the name) wasn't doing their job to vet before posting it.
I think I heard the wrong FB profile was being floated around (right name, wrong guy) and maybe the Qatari was that dudes wife. I'm not sure.
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting. Maybe it's an Islam thing maybe it's just a crazy asshole thing. Honestly, I still think it's a crazy asshole thing. It sounds like he was getting back at coworkers. You can be a Muslim and kill people for reasons not related to Jihad on the West. There's always some crazy jerk who doesn't realize that the proper response to insults is not to ball them up until you go crazy, but to productively punch a person in the parking lot.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:22:35 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:19:07 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:16:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 11:56:36 PM
Ok now it is looking like Islamism.
It is?
And 11B's name has been reported as hoax? Shows shouldn't listen to fox news reporters.
:huh:
The name you posted has been retracted from what I read. Saying whomever reported it (was cited as a fox news reporter to break the name) wasn't doing their job to vet before posting it.
Correct.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting. Maybe it's an Islam thing maybe it's just a crazy asshole thing. Honestly, I still think it's a crazy asshole thing. It sounds like he was getting back at coworkers. You can be a Muslim and kill people for reasons not related to Jihad on the West. There's always some crazy jerk who doesn't realize that the proper response to insults is not to ball them up until you go crazy, but to productively punch a person in the parking lot.
That would make sense if he acted alone. It's odd that he wanted to go postal on his work place and had friends happy to go along for the ride.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting.
That doesn't go along with events. It wasn't a lone gunman. 2-3 heavily armed shooters.
Witnesses are still saying 3, but only two dead.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
quite frankly I find sickening and totally un-American.
And yet, a near majority of your co-citizens appear ready to vote for these guys. And Trump is more popular than ever with his Muslim registry sillyness.
I think there's something more american than we all realize about this.
Quote
The problem in this country is that we have too few people who are exposed to immigrants from Muslim regions... or probably more accurately any immigrants at all...
It's easy to think this behavior as typical from hillbillies like me, or "provincials" as Grallon would say, coming from very small villages (in my case, less than 2000 souls for where I live precisely), it's totally silly and can not be correlated with facts.
If I look at my circle of friends, the most racists ones are from Montreal. They don't like blacks and they think all arabs are ISIS types.
If you look at this forum, people who don't like Muslims like Grallon or CrazyIvan all come from big cities and frequently have to meet/deal with immigrants.
Generally speaking, when you try to adress the issue, the racist types will tell you "you don't understand because you're not exposed to immigration like we are". And then will come along people thinking like you telling the racists they are as such because they live outside the big cities and don't see enough immigrants. So, I don't think it's related to the proximity of immigration or even the type of immigration.
And even if it was exposure to immigration, there's not much to do about it. If we talk rich immigrants, they come to our countries for a good paying job, which happens to usually be in a big city. If we talk poor immigrants or refugees, then there is the issue of giving them a chance to integrate to their communities, and only bigger cities can afford such services, plus, since they are poor, they can't be asked to buy a car for each member of the family that will work, so settling them in a city where they can walk or use public transit systems to work and shop groceries is easier.
The Quebec government tried settling immigrants in more remote areas for a time, but the idea was more or less abandonned. It was way too difficult to help these people get around and familiarize themselves with a new landscapes. And it's a lot more difficult to find teachers who speak arabic/spanish/portuguese to teach these people French or help them in school when they have difficulties understanding the language.
So, there ya go. As much as it could be nice to settle immigrants all accross our countries, that's not really practical, for us and for them.
Quoteand so it's easy to imagine all are bad and intend to do harm,
while this is a silly idea, and rejecting immigration is silly, one still needs to be careful and not go overboard with all security measures to achieve mass immigration in a very short lapse of time when you wish to evacuate people from a war zone.
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
quite frankly I find sickening and totally un-American.
And yet, a near majority of your co-citizens appear ready to vote for these guys. And Trump is more popular than ever with his Muslim registry sillyness.
I think there's something more american than we all realize about this.
:huh:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:31:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting.
That doesn't go along with events. It wasn't a lone gunman. 2-3 heavily armed shooters.
Witnesses are still saying 3, but only two dead.
QuoteOfficials involved in the investigation tell NBC News it is looking more and more likely that Farook and a woman, who one person described as "a fiancee," were involved in the assault.
Police said a male and a female suspect were killed in a shootout with police after officers chased a sport-utility vehicle being sought after the attack. They were dressed in "assault-style clothing" and were carrying assault-style weapons and handguns, San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said.
A third person seen leaving the area near the SUV has been taken into custody, Burguan said, but he stressed that it is not clear he was involved in the shootings.
The identities of those two who were killed and the person detained were not released.
Police had said they were looking for up to three people involved in the attack. Officials told NBC News Wednesday night it looks less and less likely that a third person was involved in the attack.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
quite frankly I find sickening and totally un-American.
And yet, a near majority of your co-citizens appear ready to vote for these guys. And Trump is more popular than ever with his Muslim registry sillyness.
I think there's something more american than we all realize about this.
:huh:
Bizarre, I wouldn't call the twenty-seven percenters(nut jobs) of the right wingers of trumps, a majority. Try again Viper.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:38:51 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:31:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting.
That doesn't go along with events. It wasn't a lone gunman. 2-3 heavily armed shooters.
Witnesses are still saying 3, but only two dead.
QuoteOfficials involved in the investigation tell NBC News it is looking more and more likely that Farook and a woman, who one person described as "a fiancee," were involved in the assault.
Police said a male and a female suspect were killed in a shootout with police after officers chased a sport-utility vehicle being sought after the attack. They were dressed in "assault-style clothing" and were carrying assault-style weapons and handguns, San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said.
A third person seen leaving the area near the SUV has been taken into custody, Burguan said, but he stressed that it is not clear he was involved in the shootings.
The identities of those two who were killed and the person detained were not released.
Police had said they were looking for up to three people involved in the attack. Officials told NBC News Wednesday night it looks less and less likely that a third person was involved in the attack.
Yes two dead and that's what we got to go with.
Was at a semi-impromptu bottle share at a neighbor's house. They're lefties, so reading everything now I'm not surprised they went all quiet at a certain point in the evening. But anyway I'm still trying to mentally process the whole thing.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:16:14 AM
It is?
Well the neighbors were saying he had gotten very religious lately. Not conclusive yet though.
What is this CAIR organization. Have read up on them.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:45:18 AM
They're lefties, so reading everything now I'm not surprised they went all quiet at a certain point in the evening.
Lefties have a tendency to go quiet? Somebody should tell my facebook feed.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:41:09 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
quite frankly I find sickening and totally un-American.
And yet, a near majority of your co-citizens appear ready to vote for these guys. And Trump is more popular than ever with his Muslim registry sillyness.
I think there's something more american than we all realize about this.
:huh:
Bizarre, I wouldn't call the twenty-seven percenters(nut jobs) of the right wingers of trumps, a majority. Try again Viper.
Trump, Carson and Cruz got 59% in the last poll, and they're basically all out there in lala land.
Um 59% of Republicans no?
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting. Maybe it's an Islam thing maybe it's just a crazy asshole thing. Honestly, I still think it's a crazy asshole thing. It sounds like he was getting back at coworkers. You can be a Muslim and kill people for reasons not related to Jihad on the West. There's always some crazy jerk who doesn't realize that the proper response to insults is not to ball them up until you go crazy, but to productively punch a person in the parking lot.
I don't think anybody disputes this Raz. It has been said repeatedly in this thread already. The recent spiritual awakening complete with fundamentalist clothing is a bit of a red flag though...presuming that part is true of course.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 12:52:25 AM
Um 59% of Republicans no?
That's the way I'm seeing it. Don't know what Tim is seeing. :lol:
Its time to do the CAIR Bear Stare
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 12:54:26 AM
Its time to do the CAIR Bear Stare
I still find Muslim women wearing that scarf degrading.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 07:54:21 PM
I was in meetings all afternoon and learned about this right before dinner.
WTF :wacko:
Yeah, WTF. Does noone check their Facebook during business meetings any more?
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:56:36 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 12:54:26 AM
Its time to do the CAIR Bear Stare
I still find Muslim women wearing that scarf degrading.
I don't know why any woman would want to be a Muslim
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 02, 2015, 03:55:31 PM
There was apparently some sort of award party for San Bernardino country workers going on.
I see. Maybe anti-government nutcases.
:pinch:
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 12:58:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:56:36 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 12:54:26 AM
Its time to do the CAIR Bear Stare
I still find Muslim women wearing that scarf degrading.
I don't know why any woman would want to be a Muslim
You get to submit. There are submissive types, you know.
But yeah, I agree.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Austrian chuckers? Porn stars?
I wouldn't mind patrolling with her
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbinscorner.com%2Fmails%2Ff%2Ffemale-soldiers-around-the-world%2F127298144678.jpg&hash=f04edce79ea32fd32010b838fd19a1eda1b4b185)
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
No.
I mean, the pony tails are okay I guess.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Austrian chuckers? Porn stars?
I wouldn't mind patrolling with her
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbinscorner.com%2Fmails%2Ff%2Ffemale-soldiers-around-the-world%2F127298144678.jpg&hash=f04edce79ea32fd32010b838fd19a1eda1b4b185)
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
Only thing missing is a big dip in her lip. ;)
I think the scarves look rather nice and make great fashion accessories.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 02, 2015, 03:55:31 PM
There was apparently some sort of award party for San Bernardino country workers going on.
I see. Maybe anti-government nutcases.
:pinch:
Was a reasonable guess at the time. A very odd target for extremists of any stripe.
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 12:29:48 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 12:26:05 AM
Nah, it's real. CNN is reporting that he stormed out a holiday party and came back shooting. Maybe it's an Islam thing maybe it's just a crazy asshole thing. Honestly, I still think it's a crazy asshole thing. It sounds like he was getting back at coworkers. You can be a Muslim and kill people for reasons not related to Jihad on the West. There's always some crazy jerk who doesn't realize that the proper response to insults is not to ball them up until you go crazy, but to productively punch a person in the parking lot.
That would make sense if he acted alone. It's odd that he wanted to go postal on his work place and had friends happy to go along for the ride.
Could be a moderate Muslim thing - we've never seen those before, so do not know what to expect. :P
Police confirm Syed Rizwan Farook was at the event at building, left and returned.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Austrian chuckers? Porn stars?
I wouldn't mind patrolling with her
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbinscorner.com%2Fmails%2Ff%2Ffemale-soldiers-around-the-world%2F127298144678.jpg&hash=f04edce79ea32fd32010b838fd19a1eda1b4b185)
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is like a 7/10 to me. I am sure it will be very easy to find much better pictures of pretty female soldiers, but she seems pleasant, cheerful and have above average looks.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 02, 2015, 03:55:31 PM
There was apparently some sort of award party for San Bernardino country workers going on.
I see. Maybe anti-government nutcases.
:pinch:
Angry white guys have had a high body count year stateside, so they are kind of my go to.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
I'll give you a quiz on Friday. Study your slurs young man.
What do you call a Czech?
Austrian chuckers? Porn stars?
I wouldn't mind patrolling with her
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
I think she's cute. :sleep:
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is cute but military gear is not really flattering on a lady...young Israeli sexpots excepting.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:16:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is cute but military gear is not really flattering on a lady...young Israeli sexpots excepting.
My only other Czech girls to compare are porn stars :ph34r:
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:16:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is cute but military gear is not really flattering on a lady...young Israeli sexpots excepting.
I suppose I am one of those freaks that think women in camouflage are HOTT. :P
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 01:19:55 AM
I suppose I am one of those freaks that think women in camouflage are HOTT. :P
I am talking like actual military gear not camo bikinis Toni.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 01:19:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:16:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is cute but military gear is not really flattering on a lady...young Israeli sexpots excepting.
I suppose I am one of those freaks that think women in camouflage are HOTT. :P
Well i'd imagine you are around them everyday...
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:20:57 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 01:19:55 AM
I suppose I am one of those freaks that think women in camouflage are HOTT. :P
I am talking like actual military gear not camo bikinis Toni.
So am I. :P
She is not cute. She could be average with some makeup and depending on her physique.
:internet standards:
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:14:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 02, 2015, 03:55:31 PM
There was apparently some sort of award party for San Bernardino country workers going on.
I see. Maybe anti-government nutcases.
:pinch:
Angry white guys have had a high body count year stateside, so they are kind of my go to.
Or you could just say you were wrong.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:24:44 AM
Or you could just say you were wrong.
I have. Several times.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 01:22:22 AM
:internet standards:
She's not particularly cute by any standards. Possibly average. Average isn't bad.
Tashfeen Malik citizenship not released.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:25:49 AM
She's not particularly cute by any standards. Possibly average. Average isn't bad.
She's cute enough.
Valmy just likes to jump to conclusions.
Summary of the press conference.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2015/dec/02/san-bernardino-shooting-live-coverage
QuoteWhat we know so far
Following the latest police news conference, here is what we now know about Wednesday's deadly attack in San Bernardino:
14 people have been killed and 17 injured in a mass shooting at the Inland Regional Center, a community center for people with disabilities.
The two attackers were named as Syed Rizwan Farook, a 28-year-old man, and Tashfeen Malik, a 27-year-old woman. Police said they were in a relationship and possibly married.
Both suspects were killed after engaging in a shootout with police while fleeing in a dark-coloured SUV.
The two suspects were armed with assault rifles and handguns, and were dressed in dark clothing "loaded with magazines for a gunfight".
A third person who was detained close to the shoot-out has not been identified and it is not certain he was involved in the attack on the center.
Police chief Jarrod Burguan said "there had to be some degree of planning in this" and multiple explosive devices have been found at the Inland Regional Center.
Farook, an employee of the environmental health team, was involved in a dispute at a Christmas party being held at the center on Wednesday morning, and left before returning to open fire, police said.
Farhan Khan, Farook's brother-in-law, said he had "absolutely no idea" why his relative would have carried out the massacre.
An FBI official, David Bowdich, said it was too early to class this as an act of terrorism:
I am still not willing to say if we know that for sure ... It is a possibility but we don't know that yet and we're not willing to go down that road yet.
FBI agents are still searching a house in Redlands, south-east of San Bernardino, which is connected to Farook.
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2015, 01:33:32 AM
Valmy just likes to jump to conclusions.
I am not making conclusions just speculating.
Ok, so if this was just the guy and his crazy bitch of a wife, this gives some credence back to the disgruntled employee hypothesis.
QuoteAn FBI official, David Bowdich, said it was too early to class this as an act of terrorism
Well let's see...mass shooting plus explosives being set...probably not trying to keep the body count low.
Let's say terrorism, fine, but is it Islamic terrorism?
It just doesn't feel that way. Even if this dude got brain washed and wanted to do him some Islam, why would he choose that location of all places?
If they wanted to make a suicidal splash, Los Angeles isn't too far away. Could have lit up down town or something.
The problem is, as the CdM says, Muslims can crack too and do some violence and it can be random and terrible and awful and have nothing to do with Islam.
The fact that ISIS tweeted something about being proud of the 3 shooters when there was actually two points to me that at least the relationship wasn't two sided. Maybe they did idolize ISIS and their work but it doesn't seem like they were part of the organization.
I think the difference between terrorism and ordinary crime is that, in a terrorist attack, the victims have no direct link with the attackers. In this case however, the link is obvious.
We must immediate terminate all relations with the Saudi and place a travel ban to that country.
She's average. Very nice smile, nice eyes, good skin, ridiculous nose. The nose is the foundation of a girl's looks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/12/02/hours-before-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-doctors-were-on-capitol-hill-petitioning-congress-to-lift-ban-on-gun-violence-research/
QuoteHours before San Bernardino shooting, doctors urged Congress to lift funding ban on gun violence research
On Wednesday morning, a group of doctors in white coats arrived on Capitol Hill to deliver a petition to Congress. Signed by more than 2,000 physicians around the country, it pleads with lawmakers to lift a restriction that for nearly two decades has essentially blocked the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from conducting research on gun violence.
Joined by a handful of Democratic lawmakers, the doctors spoke about the need to view gun violence as a public health epidemic and research ways to solve it – as the country would with any disease causing the deaths of thousands of Americans each year.
[Gunmen slay 14 in Calif. in deadliest mass shooting since Sandy Hook]
"It is disappointing that we have made little progress over the past 20 years in finding solutions to gun violence," said Nina Agrawal, a New York physician and member of the advocacy group Doctors for America, according to the group's Twitter feed.
"We should all be able to agree that this debate should be informed by objective data and scientific research," said Rep. David Price (D-N.C.).
The group cited a letter released by former Rep. Jay Dickey of Arkansas, who authored an amendment that restricted federal funding for research into gun violence and its effects on public health. He now regrets that effort.
"Research could have been continued on gun violence without infringing on the rights of gun owners," wrote Dickey, who has said he only wanted to ensure that no dollars went to gun control advocacy. "Somehow or someway we should slowly but methodically fund such research until a solution is reached. Doing nothing is no longer an acceptable solution."
After the speeches and presentations, after the group posed for pictures, Wednesday's event ended. The crowd dispersed. And hours later, another mass shooting began to unfold in San Bernardino, Calif. Multiple shooters, multiple victims – with 14 dead and even more wounded.
Perhaps that's not as much of a coincidence as it might seem, given that the United States has experienced an average of more than one mass shooting for every day of 2015.
"It's ironic," Price said in an interview Wednesday evening, after the extent of the carnage in California became clearer. "It certain does underscore what we were saying earlier today about the scourge of gun violence, which has become such a feature of our daily lives."
Yet maybe it really wasn't that ironic, he added a moment later, given the all-too-familiar scenes. "What we were saying this morning was just one piece of this, but surely it is the least we can do to take the shackles off our researchers and begin to understand this problem more fully," Price said. "What we're talking about is really very modest and very basic."
Others raised the issue of the research ban after the mass shooting that killed 10 people at an Oregon community college in October.
[The San Bernardino shooting would be the second mass shooting today and the 355th this year]
Congressional lawmakers "control the purse strings. They could change this today, if they wanted to," Daniel Webster, who directs the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore, told the Post at the time.
Webster wasn't optimistic that change would come anytime soon. But like the doctors who made their plea to lawmakers on Capitol Hill early Wednesday, hours before gunfire rocked another community, he hoped it would come sooner than later.
"It just affects the basic things we care about in public health – the mortality, the life expectancy, morbidity, mental health. It affects all of those things in pretty profound ways," Webster said of gun violence. "If we had a disease that was killing as many people as our guns in our country, we would devote a lot more resources to make sure we had the best data, the best research to know what is most affected."
The article quotes a tweet that guns are the leading cause of death among children in America? :huh:
Aye. Kids are prone to shooting themselves if they get their hands on a gun.
Oh, I forgot about the pipe bombs. I'd put that in the Islamic terrorism corner. Maybe he and his gal were planning something but got so pissed about the party that he aborted the larger plan and just went to kill his coworkers. It's just the action doesn't seem like Islamic terrorism, since they almost always intend to die at the site, not escape. Maybe he just didn't get the memo.
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
If you look at this forum, people who don't like Muslims like Grallon or CrazyIvan all come from big cities and frequently have to meet/deal with immigrants.
tsk tsk. I don't like islam, the religion/ideology. I have no quarrel with individuals unless they decide to engage in a quarrel.
Just saying
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 01:53:05 AM
Let's say terrorism, fine, but is it Islamic terrorism?
It just doesn't feel that way. Even if this dude got brain washed and wanted to do him some Islam, why would he choose that location of all places?
If they wanted to make a suicidal splash, Los Angeles isn't too far away. Could have lit up down town or something.
The problem is, as the CdM says, Muslims can crack too and do some violence and it can be random and terrible and awful and have nothing to do with Islam.
The fact that ISIS tweeted something about being proud of the 3 shooters when there was actually two points to me that at least the relationship wasn't two sided. Maybe they did idolize ISIS and their work but it doesn't seem like they were part of the organization.
My completely amateur, arm-chair quarterbacking, baseless theory is that this was probably a dude who started getting caught up in Islamic fundamentalism (along with his babe), started stockpiling the assault gear with the idea that he might do something at some point...then got into a argument with coworkers at that party about Syria/Islam/radicalism/whatever and decided to go home and get his guns and his woman and do his micro-aggression-terrorism on his office party.
Also, please correct the thread title.
Its San Bernardino, not Bernadino.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
My completely amateur, arm-chair quarterbacking, baseless theory is that this was probably a dude who started getting caught up in Islamic fundamentalism (along with his babe), started stockpiling the assault gear with the idea that he might do something at some point...then got into a argument with coworkers at that party about Syria/Islam/radicalism/whatever and decided to go home and get his guns and his woman and do his micro-aggression-terrorism on his office party.
I like this.
Wonder how the Christmas party angle is going to play.
Fox says they wore gopro cameras! :o
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/03/2-suspects-killed-shootout-san-bernardino-massacre-14-killed/
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 03:42:13 AM
Also, please correct the thread title.
Its San Bernardino, not Bernadino.
Bernadino sounds much better.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
The problem in this country is that we have too few people who are exposed to immigrants from Muslim regions...
and then there's Molenbeek... ;)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2015, 03:47:33 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
My completely amateur, arm-chair quarterbacking, baseless theory is that this was probably a dude who started getting caught up in Islamic fundamentalism (along with his babe), started stockpiling the assault gear with the idea that he might do something at some point...then got into a argument with coworkers at that party about Syria/Islam/radicalism/whatever and decided to go home and get his guns and his woman and do his micro-aggression-terrorism on his office party.
I like this.
Wonder how the Christmas party angle is going to play.
Yes, I was speculating along these lines too.
I mean to say, even in 'murica one doesn't normally have body-armour, AK-47s and a supply of bombs to hand when one falls out with colleagues :hmm:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2015, 03:48:42 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 03:42:13 AM
Also, please correct the thread title.
Its San Bernardino, not Bernadino.
Bernadino sounds much better.
Agreed
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 01:53:05 AM
Let's say terrorism, fine, but is it Islamic terrorism?
It just doesn't feel that way. Even if this dude got brain washed and wanted to do him some Islam, why would he choose that location of all places?
If they wanted to make a suicidal splash, Los Angeles isn't too far away. Could have lit up down town or something.
The problem is, as the CdM says, Muslims can crack too and do some violence and it can be random and terrible and awful and have nothing to do with Islam.
The fact that ISIS tweeted something about being proud of the 3 shooters when there was actually two points to me that at least the relationship wasn't two sided. Maybe they did idolize ISIS and their work but it doesn't seem like they were part of the organization.
My completely amateur, arm-chair quarterbacking, baseless theory is that this was probably a dude who started getting caught up in Islamic fundamentalism (along with his babe), started stockpiling the assault gear with the idea that he might do something at some point...then got into a argument with coworkers at that party about Syria/Islam/radicalism/whatever and decided to go home and get his guns and his woman and do his micro-aggression-terrorism on his office party.
Why do you suppose they limited the attack to the co workers only ? They had a building full of people they could mow down. Police get there too quick?
They didn't try to shoot anyone on the street. It seems very much a targeted response. It seems like they had opportunities to harm others but they didn't.
I may be proven wrong in the next few days, but this just doesn't feel like an Islamic attack.
There was a SWAT team training nearby IIRC.
I need more than an 'IIRC' from Tim on this one.
He only spent one month in Saudi and only grew his beard for one month. So his Muslim super powers hadn't fully developed.
Thankfully! One could only imagine what would have happened, had he done so.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:45:18 AM
Was at a semi-impromptu bottle share at a neighbor's house. They're lefties, so reading everything now I'm not surprised they went all quiet at a certain point in the evening. But anyway I'm still trying to mentally process the whole thing.
Between a Planned Parenthood shoot-up and now a couple of sand nigger Islamo-terrorists' Jihad on Jingle Bells this month, I'm sure your high-fives made things uncomfortable.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 05:51:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:45:18 AM
Was at a semi-impromptu bottle share at a neighbor's house. They're lefties, so reading everything now I'm not surprised they went all quiet at a certain point in the evening. But anyway I'm still trying to mentally process the whole thing.
Between a Planned Parenthood shoot-up and now a couple of sand nigger Islamo-terrorists' Jihad on Jingle Bells this month, I'm sure your high-fives made things uncomfortable.
:lol:
I missed you so much.
Quote from: Monoriu on December 03, 2015, 01:13:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is like a 7/10 to me. I am sure it will be very easy to find much better pictures of pretty female soldiers, but she seems pleasant, cheerful and have above average looks.
She has a nice smile, but otherwise her face is average (though as someone said, average isn't bad). We can't tell anything about her figure.
So unless she has a knockout figure, definitely not HOTT, but more of a girl-next-door type, but not even toward the top of that group.
Definite 6/10 for me. Average looks but since she's a soldier she's at least expected to have a lean figure so would bang.
The religion of peace strikes again.
Quote from: dps on December 03, 2015, 06:08:58 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 03, 2015, 01:13:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
I know I'm gay so not the best judge, but is she really attractive to you guys? :yuk:
She is like a 7/10 to me. I am sure it will be very easy to find much better pictures of pretty female soldiers, but she seems pleasant, cheerful and have above average looks.
She has a nice smile, but otherwise her face is average (though as someone said, average isn't bad). We can't tell anything about her figure.
So unless she has a knockout figure, definitely not HOTT, but more of a girl-next-door type, but not even toward the top of that group.
Who you talking about?
Show me, show me!
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:41:09 AM
Bizarre, I wouldn't call the twenty-seven percenters(nut jobs) of the right wingers of trumps, a majority. Try again Viper.
It's not like the others are radically different from Trump, Carson in particular. And when it comes to the Presidential campaign, I doubt any polls indicate a 90% lead from Clinton or Sanders.
Latest polls I saw were 47-41% for Clinton vs Trump. I wouldn't say 41% is just a few lunatics.
Either GOP supporters just don't care how crazy their next President could be so long as he's not a Democrat, or there is something else shifting in US politics.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 12:49:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:45:18 AM
They're lefties, so reading everything now I'm not surprised they went all quiet at a certain point in the evening.
Lefties have a tendency to go quiet? Somebody should tell my facebook feed.
If they're
Texan-left, that means right-wingers everywhere else in the world ;)
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2015, 08:35:45 AM
If they're Texan-left, that means right-wingers everywhere else in the world ;)
Eh it is not that simple. And the internet means that leftists from around the world can compare notes and make sure these kinds of regional variations are avoided.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 06:29:13 AM
Who you talking about?
Show me, show me!
The Czech infantry lady 11B posted earlier.
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2015, 08:31:18 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 12:41:09 AM
Bizarre, I wouldn't call the twenty-seven percenters(nut jobs) of the right wingers of trumps, a majority. Try again Viper.
It's not like the others are radically different from Trump, Carson in particular. And when it comes to the Presidential campaign, I doubt any polls indicate a 90% lead from Clinton or Sanders.
Latest polls I saw were 47-41% for Clinton vs Trump. I wouldn't say 41% is just a few lunatics.
Either GOP supporters just don't care how crazy their next President could be so long as he's not a Democrat, or there is something else shifting in US politics.
It is both. Clinton is pretty polarizing.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
My completely amateur, arm-chair quarterbacking, baseless theory is that this was probably a dude who started getting caught up in Islamic fundamentalism (along with his babe), started stockpiling the assault gear with the idea that he might do something at some point...then got into a argument with coworkers at that party about Syria/Islam/radicalism/whatever and decided to go home and get his guns and his woman and do his micro-aggression-terrorism on his office party.
This is my thinking as well.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrentonstahl.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F02%2Fgun-ownership-demotivational-poster-1221603758.jpg&hash=dafb61b3e02a563e16abd88582282933ac25413a)
Being ready in case the South rebels again is a pretty compelling justification :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 09:22:29 AM
Being ready in case the South rebels again is a pretty compelling justification :hmm:
I prefer the zombie part.
I did like this.
http://news.yahoo.com/california-muslims-condemn-horrific-mass-shooting-062245604.html
QuoteCalifornia Muslims condemn 'horrific' mass shooting
California's Muslim community expressed its horror at the mass shooting that killed at least 14 in San Bernardino, after a local Muslim man was widely identified as a suspect.
Syed Farook, a US citizen who worked for the town's health department, is believed to have been killed in a shootout with police hours after opening fire inside a Christmas party at a local social services center.
Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Los Angeles chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), said its members "unequivocally condemn the horrific act that happened today."
"The Muslim community stands shoulder to shoulder with our fellow Americans in repudiating any twisted mindset that would claim to justify such sickening acts of violence," he added in a statement.
Authorities have drawn no connection between the attack and radical Islam at this stage in the investigation.
Farook's brother-in-law, Farhan Kahn, came forward at the press conference to voice his shock at the notion his brother could have committed mass murder.
"I have no idea why he would do that," a visibly shaken Khan told reporters, adding that he had last spoken with Farook about a week ago.
"I am in shock that something like this could happen," said Khan, who is married to Farook's sister. "I am very sad that people lost their lives.
Farook's father, quoted by the New York Daily News tabloid, described his son as a devout Muslim.
"He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He's Muslim."
Muzammil Siddiqi, the religious director of the Islamic Society of Orange County, also condemned the killings saying they were contrary to the teachings of Islam.
"We have condemned all violence everywhere because human life is precious," he said. "And we respect and honor human life."
According to local news reports Farook was employed by the San Bernardino County health department which is believed to have organized the party at the Inland Regional Center.
The attack on the party triggered a massive manhunt that ended when police shot dead two heavily armed suspects -- a man, believed to be Farook, and a woman -- on a quiet residential street
I understand being shocked that he went & done it but surprised? Have you not heard what he was being preached, Farhan?
Quote from: garbon on December 03, 2015, 09:52:04 AM
Quote
Authorities have drawn no connection between the attack and radical Islam at this stage in the investigation.
The hedging here is quite weird. No conclusions have been reached yet, sure, but this suggests they are drawing no conclusion because there is no evidence not because they just have not really gotten their investigation going yet.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 10:02:44 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 03, 2015, 09:52:04 AM
Quote
Authorities have drawn no connection between the attack and radical Islam at this stage in the investigation.
The hedging here is quite weird. No conclusions have been reached yet, sure, but this suggests they are drawing no conclusion because there is no evidence not because they just have not really gotten their investigation going yet.
I think that is your interpretation.
Quote from: garbon on December 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM
I think that is your interpretation.
Um...Of course. My inability to read your mind prevents me from saying your interpretation.
:unsure:
If it needs clarifying things I type here are things I am thinking and not other non-me people.
My point was that the problem wasn't with the copy, the problem was you. :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2015, 03:47:33 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 03, 2015, 03:41:53 AM
My completely amateur, arm-chair quarterbacking, baseless theory is that this was probably a dude who started getting caught up in Islamic fundamentalism (along with his babe), started stockpiling the assault gear with the idea that he might do something at some point...then got into a argument with coworkers at that party about Syria/Islam/radicalism/whatever and decided to go home and get his guns and his woman and do his micro-aggression-terrorism on his office party.
I like this.
Wonder how the Christmas party angle is going to play.
The Fox News take: not only is there an actual war on christmas going on, it just went hot.
Roger Ailes is probably getting wet.
Quote from: alfred russel on December 03, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
The Fox News take: not only is there an actual war on christmas going on, it just went hot.
Roger Ailes is probably getting wet.
Well I guess. But Muslims were not the people they were saying were waging the war on Christmas. Well except for Obama.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 09:22:29 AM
Being ready in case the South rebels again is a pretty compelling justification :hmm:
Satire is best when the object of the satire thinks it is flattery.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 10:13:55 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 03, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
The Fox News take: not only is there an actual war on christmas going on, it just went hot.
Roger Ailes is probably getting wet.
Well I guess. But Muslims were not the people they were saying were waging the war on Christmas. Well except for Obama.
I doubt it will break their heart to promote muslims to a leadership role in the theoretical war on christmas.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 10:13:55 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 03, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
The Fox News take: not only is there an actual war on christmas going on, it just went hot.
Roger Ailes is probably getting wet.
Well I guess. But Muslims were not the people they were saying were waging the war on Christmas. Well except for Obama.
Yeah, but these were radical transgendered Muslims.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Dead man and dead woman, lots of guns, lots of tactical gear with rumors of pipe bombs. Breaching an address now with a po-po RV.
I'm calling workplace violence, crazy white people-style, let's McVeigh this shit up. Gang-related, a distant 2nd.
Don't quit your day job.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:57:16 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Dead man and dead woman, lots of guns, lots of tactical gear with rumors of pipe bombs. Breaching an address now with a po-po RV.
I'm calling workplace violence, crazy white people-style, let's McVeigh this shit up. Gang-related, a distant 2nd.
Don't quit your day job.
Man no wrong speculating when Spicey is around.
Even spiess will admit I think this attack does not fit the pattern of Islamic terrorism.
They didn't even mention Allah once! No videos, no beheading, no self detonations.
They attack their work place and disappear for four hours? Why not shoot up the local eateries? Or shoot people at random on the streets ?
They attack a very specific group of people and disappear. It SCREAMS of work place violence committed by an Mohammedian.
Yeah they fled the scene. If they had blown themselves up or locked themselves inside with hostages then I would have thought Islamists.
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
I would vastly prefer my fellow white dudes would quit going nuts and murdering a bunch of people. It makes us look bad.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:11:39 PM
Yeah they fled the scene. If they had blown themselves up or locked themselves inside with hostages then I would have thought Islamists.
9/11 aside, I think most Islamist attacks we've seen in the US had the attackers trying to get away.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
I would vastly prefer my fellow white dudes would quit going nuts and murdering a bunch of people. It makes us look bad.
Yet you still jump to conclusions.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
I would vastly prefer my fellow white dudes would quit going nuts and murdering a bunch of people. It makes us look bad.
Yet you still jump to conclusions.
Nonsense I made no conclusions.
Seemed to be your working theory at least.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
I would vastly prefer my fellow white dudes would quit going nuts and murdering a bunch of people. It makes us look bad.
Yet you still jump to conclusions.
Heh, isn't it a sign of cultural integration and the transformative power of American culture if Muslims in America start obsessing about guns, going postal, and murdering their fellow workers - just like their non-Muslim fellow citizens? ;)
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
I spared you all the lecture this time, but this is why you don't start making wild ass guesses about suspects until you have, you know, actual facts to rely on.
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 01:21:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
I would vastly prefer my fellow white dudes would quit going nuts and murdering a bunch of people. It makes us look bad.
Yet you still jump to conclusions.
Heh, isn't it a sign of cultural integration and the transformative power of American culture if Muslims in America start obsessing about guns, going postal, and murdering their fellow workers - just like their non-Muslim fellow citizens? ;)
Like that was so rare in their countries of origin.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:23:40 PM
Like that was so rare in their countries of origin.
Actually, I would not be surprised if it was: actual murders in the ME tend to be outgrowths of ethnic and/or religious hatreds, or deliberate terrorism concerning the same. Not sure how common the 'going postal' style of murdering annoying co-workers is.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:21:23 PM
Seemed to be your working theory at least.
I am just babbling with my buds on Languish. My working theory changed as more evidence was presented. But why wouldn't I think what I thought? It fit the profile and I am not in Law enforcement where I would have some sort of professional obligation to do otherwise.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsemperfiparents.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2F451.jpg&hash=0e83170a8de1ea71e86972fd150653e47d3921cc)
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 01:51:00 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsemperfiparents.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2F451.jpg&hash=0e83170a8de1ea71e86972fd150653e47d3921cc)
LOL they are illegal so the joke is on you!
Oh wait...
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:28:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:21:23 PM
Seemed to be your working theory at least.
I am just babbling with my buds on Languish. My working theory changed as more evidence was presented. But why wouldn't I think what I thought? It fit the profile and I am not in Law enforcement where I would have some sort of professional obligation to do otherwise.
I guess I just don't see the mounds of misleading evidence you saw.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
I guess I just don't see the mounds of misleading evidence you saw.
My condolences for your vision issues. I think we mentioned them already.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
I guess I just don't see the mounds of misleading evidence you saw.
My condolences for your vision issues. I think we mentioned them already.
Don't make this about me. Just admit you were dead wrong and we'll move on.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 01:51:00 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsemperfiparents.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2F451.jpg&hash=0e83170a8de1ea71e86972fd150653e47d3921cc)
Why would we want to make illegal "a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities"? :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 02:03:22 PM
Why would we want to make illegal "a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities"? :hmm:
Because they belong barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. Duh. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 03, 2015, 02:04:48 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 02:03:22 PM
Why would we want to make illegal "a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities"? :hmm:
Because they belong barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. Duh. :rolleyes:
Oh right, I forgot. :blush:
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 02:00:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
I guess I just don't see the mounds of misleading evidence you saw.
My condolences for your vision issues. I think we mentioned them already.
Don't make this about me. Just admit you were dead wrong and we'll move on.
In what way am I supposed to do that? Because clearly me doing so repeatedly is not checking some box for you :lol:
Any chance this is a false flag attack to try to overturn the 2nd amendment and advance plans for NWO?
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 02:00:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
I guess I just don't see the mounds of misleading evidence you saw.
My condolences for your vision issues. I think we mentioned them already.
Don't make this about me. Just admit you were dead wrong and we'll move on.
In what way am I supposed to do that? Because clearly me doing so repeatedly is not checking some box for you :lol:
Closure.
Ok well I would never deny a man some closure -_-
I was dead wrong to assume this was an angry white dude. It seems very likely, at this point, this was a man who had undergone a recent conversion to some kind of Salafist Islam and was carrying out a terrorist attack.
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 02:12:33 PM
Any chance this is a false flag attack to try to overturn the 2nd amendment and advance plans for NWO?
We can only hope that after 24 years, George Bush's dream of a New World Order will come true. :(
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2015, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 02:12:33 PM
Any chance this is a false flag attack to try to overturn the 2nd amendment and advance plans for NWO?
We can only hope that after 24 years, George Bush's dream of a New World Order will come true. :(
He was playing a long game. If had played a short game he might have gotten re-elected so I have to question is strategy.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 02:20:22 PM
Ok well I would never deny a man some closure -_-
I was dead wrong to assume this was an angry white dude. It seems very likely, at this point, this was a man who had undergone a recent conversion to some kind of Salafist Islam and was carrying out a terrorist attack.
That's a step in the right direction. Now you need to wear an "I WAS WRONG" sign around town for the next 4 days.
My money is still on an FBI informer/entrapment operation gone wrong. :ph34r:
The petulant child in the White house can't say Islamic terrorism.
The thin skinned community organizer refuse to recognize how evil islam is.
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 02:12:33 PM
Any chance this is a false flag attack to try to overturn the 2nd amendment and advance plans for NWO?
Nope. No chance.
Crazy people see conspiracy theories every where.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
The thin skinned community organizer refuse to recognize how evil islam is.
On a scale from 1 to "poisoning water wells", how evil is Islam?
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 03, 2015, 02:12:33 PM
Any chance this is a false flag attack to try to overturn the 2nd amendment and advance plans for NWO?
Nope. No chance.
Crazy people see conspiracy theories every where.
Including on the Moon.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
The petulant child in the White house can't say Islamic terrorism.
The thin skinned community organizer refuse to recognize how evil islam is.
Dude we have a foreign policy to carry out with dozens of Muslim countries.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 03:40:56 PM
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
The petulant child in the White house can't say Islamic terrorism.
The thin skinned community organizer refuse to recognize how evil islam is.
Dude we have a foreign policy to carry out with dozens of Muslim countries.
Bullshit.
Why can't this be considered a perhaps new type of mass murder, a hybrid attack involving personal grievances being settled, framed as a terrorist attack?
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 02:00:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:53:38 PM
I guess I just don't see the mounds of misleading evidence you saw.
My condolences for your vision issues. I think we mentioned them already.
Don't make this about me. Just admit you were dead wrong and we'll move on.
Pretty pleases with yourself aren't you?
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 03:56:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 03:42:26 PM
Bullshit.
What?
I find it bullshit that Obama distorts reality because you are making deals with some authoritarian regimes. I also used to think higher of you than to use this line of reasoning.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
I find it bullshit that Obama distorts reality because you are making deals with some authoritarian regimes. I also used to think higher of you than to use this line of reasoning.
He speaks diplomatically. Because he is a fucking world leader.
Like Bill Clinton?
Yes, like Bill Clinton. Not like Wilt Chamberlain. :P
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
I find it bullshit that Obama distorts reality because you are making deals with some authoritarian regimes. I also used to think higher of you than to use this line of reasoning.
He speaks diplomatically. Because he is a fucking world leader.
This is not speaking diplomatically. This is cowardice. Roosevelt didn't try to argue Germans had nothing to do with the nazi regime. Reagan did call the Soviet Union the Evil Empire. Obama is a fucking bitch. There's nothing diplomatic about cozying up to evil - it's shameful.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
I find it bullshit that Obama distorts reality because you are making deals with some authoritarian regimes. I also used to think higher of you than to use this line of reasoning.
He speaks diplomatically. Because he is a fucking world leader.
This is not speaking diplomatically. This is cowardice. Roosevelt didn't try to argue Germans had nothing to do with the nazi regime. Reagan did call the Soviet Union the Evil Empire. Obama is a fucking bitch. There's nothing diplomatic about cozying up to evil - it's shameful.
So you want us to be at war with a billion people? What the fuck good does that do?
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
I find it bullshit that Obama distorts reality because you are making deals with some authoritarian regimes. I also used to think higher of you than to use this line of reasoning.
He speaks diplomatically. Because he is a fucking world leader.
This is not speaking diplomatically. This is cowardice. Roosevelt didn't try to argue Germans had nothing to do with the nazi regime. Reagan did call the Soviet Union the Evil Empire. Obama is a fucking bitch. There's nothing diplomatic about cozying up to evil - it's shameful.
Maybe in Poland flinging out irresponsible condemnations of hundreds of millions of people is considered good statesmanship but over here my expectations exceed that of a monkey flinging shit around.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
The petulant child in the White house can't say Islamic terrorism.
The thin skinned community organizer refuse to recognize how evil islam is.
I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
The major difference is that on a global level nobody gives a shit if Poland, or Austria for that matter, throw a tantrum.
I bet, if this was 1939, you would be one of those people arguing to turn back the ship with Jewish refugees, just not to cash Germany in a bad light. After all, with their alliance with Italy and Japan, they are an important international player.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
Roosevelt didn't try to argue Germans had nothing to do with the nazi regime.
But he cozied up to the "Evil Empire" to fight said ze Germans. Lesser of evils, enemies of your enemies, etc.
QuoteReagan did call the Soviet Union the Evil Empire.
But he cozied up to the ISI and the soon to be Al-Qaedite Sunni fanatics in Afghanistan to fight said Evil Empire. Lease of evil, enemies of your enemies, etc.
See the pattern?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 03, 2015, 04:10:24 PM
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
The petulant child in the White house can't say Islamic terrorism.
The thin skinned community organizer refuse to recognize how evil islam is.
I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
Ok, i confess. I don't know what it means.
But it definitely sounds like an original diss of pResident Barack Hussein.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 04:07:40 PM
So you want us to be at war with a billion people? What the fuck good does that do?
The Warsaw liberal intelligentsia (all 3 of them) is ready and willing to fight to the last American.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 03:53:24 PM
Pretty pleases with yourself aren't you?
No, Raz. Just disappointed in my Languish buds :(
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 03, 2015, 04:14:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
Roosevelt didn't try to argue Germans had nothing to do with the nazi regime.
But he cozied up to the "Evil Empire" to fight said ze Germans.
Strange authority.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:14:49 PM
Ok, i confess. I don't know what it means.
But it definitely sounds like an original diss of pResident Barack Hussein.
It does not sound original at all.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 03:53:24 PM
Pretty pleases with yourself aren't you?
No, Raz. Just disappointed in my Languish buds :(
I am just so puzzled with your problem here.
:D
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:14:49 PM
Ok, i confess. I don't know what it means.
But it definitely sounds like an original diss of pResident Barack Hussein.
You're supposed to use "petulant child" when discussing how Obama refuses to compromise with Republicans in Congress.
I can't remember the official term for this particular situation, but going with some form of "wimp" or "coward" should work.
I agree with Siege and derspiess. :P
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 03:53:24 PM
Pretty pleases with yourself aren't you?
No, Raz. Just disappointed in my Languish buds :(
I am just so puzzled with your problem here.
He doesn't appreciate being racially profiled.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I bet, if this was 1939, you would be one of those people arguing to turn back the ship with Jewish refugees, just not to cash Germany in a bad light. After all, with their alliance with Italy and Japan, they are an important international player.
No...but Roosevelt was very careful not to condemn Hitler. He got roasted every-time he even slightly said something mean by his domestic opponents. He was careful because throwing a tantrum was not the right play even if it would have made him feel better.
As for taking refugees that had nothing to do with wanting to not insult Germany.
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
I am just so puzzled with your problem here.
:moon:
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:14:49 PM
Ok, i confess. I don't know what it means.
But it definitely sounds like an original diss of pResident Barack Hussein.
You're supposed to use "petulant child" when discussing how Obama refuses to compromise with Republicans in Congress.
I can't remember the official term for this particular situation, but going with some form of "wimp" or "coward" should work.
Ah shit.
You are right.
Petulant child goes with temper tantrums.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
I am just so puzzled with your problem here.
:moon:
:huh: I swear dude I cannot see how I did anything in this thread that I have not done for years. When things start happening I speculate here. You didn't have a problem with it the previous times.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 03, 2015, 04:22:09 PM
He doesn't appreciate being racially profiled.
He does not fit the profile at all -_-
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:27:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
I am just so puzzled with your problem here.
:moon:
:huh: I swear dude I cannot see how I did anything in this thread that I have not done for years. When things start happening I speculate here. You didn't have a problem with it the previous times.
That makes it OK? "But I've done this 5,999,999 times before!" :bleeding:
Obozo keeps talking about gun control while Americans keep buying more guns than evah.
Talk about a loser argument.
I hope Democrats keep being this stupid all the way to President Trumpminator inauguration.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I bet, if this was 1939, you would be one of those people arguing to turn back the ship with Jewish refugees, just not to cash Germany in a bad light. After all, with their alliance with Italy and Japan, they are an important international player.
You mean like the refugee crisis going on right now?
Quote from: The Brain on December 03, 2015, 04:29:11 PM
That makes it OK? "But I've done this 5,999,999 times before!" :bleeding:
:(
Am I: equivalent to
HitlerObama? :(
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Obozo keeps talking about gun control while Americans keep buying more guns than evah.
Talk about a loser argument.
I hope Democrats keep being this stupid all the way to President Trumpminator inauguration.
Obama couldn't do it even if he wanted to after the Supreme Court decision. If he is talking about it it is because his base demands he do it. So it is a pretty safe thing to do. You lot are not going to support him or his party anyway so why bother?
Well he has to follow his base demands, sure.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:24:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:14:49 PM
Ok, i confess. I don't know what it means.
But it definitely sounds like an original diss of pResident Barack Hussein.
You're supposed to use "petulant child" when discussing how Obama refuses to compromise with Republicans in Congress.
I can't remember the official term for this particular situation, but going with some form of "wimp" or "coward" should work.
Ah shit.
You are right.
Petulant child goes with temper tantrums.
Seigy you were half-right in that it applies to Obama, but with reference to the emotional maturity of the crowd for whom he is a traitorous, foreigner aiming to bring America to its knees.
http://nymag.com/following/2015/12/san-bernardino-shooting-truthers-take-to-youtube.html?mid=facebook_nymag
QuoteIt Took Less Than a Day for Awful San Bernardino Truthers to Hit YouTube
After every high-profile mass shooting in the United States, it somehow takes conspiracy-theorist truthers mere hours to determine how the tragic event was a staged hoax, perpetrated by Obama or the Freemasons or the New World Order, and upload their theories to YouTube to awaken the sheeple.
It happened after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, and it's happening again after Tuesday's shooting that killed 14 in San Bernardino, California.
Why wait for official sources to go on the record about the shooters' motives? These guys have already got it figured out.
Do you see that man in the Freemason hat giving an interview to ABC News? An obvious clue, thinks YouTuber "RussianVids." It's all part of Obama's Satanic war on Christmas, as evidenced in the 1987 Arnold Schwarzenegger film The Running Man, or something. This video is 36 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YcU0VkhlT4
RussianVids has also discovered that the Eagles of Death Metal, the band caught in the middle of last month's terrorist attack on Paris, warned us about the California shooting, but we didn't listen.
"We're headed to San Bernardino." It's so obvious in retrospect. Could Texas be next?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrE9UEZnw4I
Needless to say, this is all complete garbage, lacking in both factual grounding and internal consistency. And there's a whole lot more of it!
YouTuber "Redsilverj" has discovered via Facebook that San Bernardino County Fire participated in an active-shooter drill on November 30, just days before the shooting. What did they know, and when did they know it? (They may have known that the U.S. hasn't gone a week in 2015 without a shooting incident that wounded at least four people, but there's no way this is a coincidence. Open your eyes, people!)
"ExplorerOne" also noticed the Freemason hat and the active-shooter drill, and he's here to walk you through how the media covered up the truth about San Bernardino by manipulating their viewers and hiding coded messages in their stories. It's actually a staged "psyop" by President Obama, who plans to use his final year in office to take away your guns. Once you know what to look for, you can't miss it. This video is 15 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlBATOkZL6Q
We all have our own ways of making sense of senseless tragedy. Some people think and pray, others advocate for legislative changes, and still others look for hidden connections to the New World Order.
Are these truthers serious? Poe's law, which tells us that internet parodies of extreme views are indistinguishable from the real thing, makes it impossible to tell.
It's almost worse to think these YouTubers might just be trolling. In that case, they're profiting by providing fuel for the delusions of conspiracy theorists. Or politically opportunistic conspiracy-theorist allies.
Truther nabob Alex Jones, whose infowars.com website engaged in some wild Sandy Hook trutherism and this week called the San Bernardino shooting "highly suspicious" and "geared to elicit widespread outrage," had Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on his show on Wednesday.
"Your reputation is amazing," Trump told Jones. That's certainly one way of putting it.
:bleeding:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances%2F500x%2F54056816.jpg&hash=6d4a5704f8fbcd6cad420b2d541078b26ba70dcd)
Siege and Marti are morons.
Despicy not sure what crawled up his ass, does he self identify with people Valmy speculated about?
Siege may be stupid, but he isn't that stupid. He also isn't that funny either in his exaggerated stupidity.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 03, 2015, 04:15:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 04:07:40 PM
So you want us to be at war with a billion people? What the fuck good does that do?
The Warsaw liberal intelligentsia (all 3 of them) is ready and willing to fight to the last American.
I am puzzled as to what Marty wants. Sending messages that we simply hate bunch the population of other countries serves little purpose. Some countries do that, Iran and North Korea jump to mind, but it doesn't make foreign policy any easier.
Quote from: DGuller on December 03, 2015, 04:45:03 PM
Siege may be stupid, but he isn't that stupid. He also isn't that funny either in his exaggerated stupidity.
He's funniest when drunk.
I don't think Hitlerama is "thin skinned" btw. Was that a racist thing?
Quote from: DGuller on December 03, 2015, 04:45:03 PM
Siege may be stupid, but he isn't that stupid. He also isn't that funny either in his exaggerated stupidity.
Siege is the most consistently funny poster we have. Imo.
I start to smile before clicking every thread he starts. You know what you are going to get, and it is awesome.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:21:04 PM
I agree with Siege and derspiess. :P
The axis of ... ? ;)
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I bet, if this was 1939, you would be one of those people arguing to turn back the ship with Jewish refugees, just not to cash Germany in a bad light. After all, with their alliance with Italy and Japan, they are an important international player.
You mean like the refugee crisis going on right now?
Could you find a single post with me arguing against taking in the refugees?
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 05:10:13 PM
The axis of ... ? ;)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say...
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2015, 04:27:25 PM
:huh: I swear dude I cannot see how I did anything in this thread that I have not done for years. When things start happening I speculate here. You didn't have a problem with it the previous times.
:shifty:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 03, 2015, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 05:10:13 PM
The axis of ... ? ;)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say...
I can't think of three posters who normally have less in common. :D
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
This seems to be an interesting constant among the right-wingers: that all speculation that this wasn't an Islamist attack was part of some conspiracy to pin the attack on right wingers. It's a fascinating phenomenon.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 05:12:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I bet, if this was 1939, you would be one of those people arguing to turn back the ship with Jewish refugees, just not to cash Germany in a bad light. After all, with their alliance with Italy and Japan, they are an important international player.
You mean like the refugee crisis going on right now?
Could you find a single post with me arguing against taking in the refugees?
I might I haven't looked. But that's not the point. Has Valmy? Of course countries that refused Jewish refugees didn't do so because they were afraid of offending Hitler. This did so for similar reasons as people refuse Muslim refugees today. They were a despised minority suspected of being prone to violent extremism.
Quote from: Martinus on December 03, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I bet, if this was 1939, you would be one of those people arguing to turn back the ship with Jewish refugees, just not to cash Germany in a bad light. After all, with their alliance with Italy and Japan, they are an important international player.
:huh: Wow. Pretty invincible ignorance, there. Germany
wanted the Jews to leave Germany. The Nazis
wanted Cuba to allow the Jews to disembark there. Turning them back didn't cast Germany in a good light at all. Your historical knowledge is as fucked up as your ability to draw analogies.
Quote from: Siege on December 03, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Obozo keeps talking about gun control while Americans keep buying more guns than evah.
Talk about a loser argument.
I hope Democrats keep being this stupid all the way to President Trumpminator inauguration.
I think many of us have wondered what kind of mouth breather is Trumps base. Now we know.
So, Jewish radicals?
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
This seems to be an interesting constant among the right-wingers: that all speculation that this wasn't an Islamist attack was part of some conspiracy to pin the attack on right wingers. It's a fascinating phenomenon.
To be painfully pedantic, any Islamist attack is, by definition, an attack by right-wingers.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 03, 2015, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
This seems to be an interesting constant among the right-wingers: that all speculation that this wasn't an Islamist attack was part of some conspiracy to pin the attack on right wingers. It's a fascinating phenomenon.
To be painfully pedantic, any Islamist attack is, by definition, an attack by right-wingers.
So where would you put Moonies, Hindus, scientologists and Anglicans on that spectrum of yours?
All right wingers.
Quote from: mongers on December 03, 2015, 08:08:05 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 03, 2015, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
This seems to be an interesting constant among the right-wingers: that all speculation that this wasn't an Islamist attack was part of some conspiracy to pin the attack on right wingers. It's a fascinating phenomenon.
To be painfully pedantic, any Islamist attack is, by definition, an attack by right-wingers.
So where would you put Moonies, Hindus, scientologists and Anglicans on that spectrum of yours?
It depends on whether they're religious fundamentalists. :P
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 01:13:40 PM
Just interesting to see the build-up of speculation, if not outright hope that it was crazy rightwingers wot dun it. Seedy was near orgasmic once he thought he had connected all the pieces. Lolz CRIME EXPERT
This seems to be an interesting constant among the right-wingers: that all speculation that this wasn't an Islamist attack was part of some conspiracy to pin the attack on right wingers. It's a fascinating phenomenon.
I said nothing of a conspiracy.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FRandom%2520forum%2520crap%2F2uf3v2b.jpg&hash=885d80984652642731c1db76adc0af20ab3634b4) (http://s195.photobucket.com/user/sbr32/media/Random%20forum%20crap/2uf3v2b.jpg.html)
Quote from: mongers on December 03, 2015, 08:08:05 PM
So where would you put Moonies, Hindus, scientologists and Anglicans on that spectrum of yours?
Capitalists. :yeah:
It is remarkable how quick conservatives have gone from "how dare you politicize this", to "how dare you say this isn't politics!".
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 09:25:53 PM
It is remarkable how quick conservatives have gone from "how dare you politicize this", to "how dare you say this isn't politics!".
Who's doing that?
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:57:16 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Dead man and dead woman, lots of guns, lots of tactical gear with rumors of pipe bombs. Breaching an address now with a po-po RV.
I'm calling workplace violence, crazy white people-style, let's McVeigh this shit up. Gang-related, a distant 2nd.
Don't quit your day job.
"Workplace violence, crazy white people-style" = workplace violence in the style of crazy white people, and is therefore not restricted solely to white people.
I'm still waiting for the big Islamofesto explaining how all this was to smite the infidels by the will of Allah, though. I know you prefer your favorite minorities to play strictly to type and not improvise, but so far this one hasn't kept the crayons inside the lines.
Just say you were wrong.
About what?
About it being white people and not Islamists. And don't hide behind that "-style" thing. That's more pathetic than the Ravens defense this year.
I suppose cultural appropriation can cloud these things. Because when I hear "tactical gear" early in reports about a mass shooting, I certainly think Cambodians.
LOL, and Ravens defense. Bengals start stringing together a decent season together with a Planned Parenthood shooting, and you're friskier than your wedding night, derbabyfucker.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 09:42:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 12:57:16 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Dead man and dead woman, lots of guns, lots of tactical gear with rumors of pipe bombs. Breaching an address now with a po-po RV.
I'm calling workplace violence, crazy white people-style, let's McVeigh this shit up. Gang-related, a distant 2nd.
Don't quit your day job.
"Workplace violence, crazy white people-style" = workplace violence in the style of crazy white people, and is therefore not restricted solely to white people.
I'm still waiting for the big Islamofesto explaining how all this was to smite the infidels by the will of Allah, though. I know you prefer your favorite minorities to play strictly to type and not improvise, but so far this one hasn't kept the crayons inside the lines.
Thanks for playing.
:lol: Anyway if there's anyone giddy about a Planned Parenthood shooting, it's you.
Jamal has 2 apples. Abdul has 5 apples. Jamal gives one apple to Abdul. What is the blast radius?
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 10:09:47 PM
Thanks for playing.
Eat me, shitbird. And get back to work, those 15mph speed bump violations aren't going to write themselves.
This forum needs CdM :yes:
Seedy, we're all so glad you're back. :cry:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 10:29:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 03, 2015, 10:09:47 PM
Thanks for playing.
Eat me, shitbird. And get back to work, those 15mph speed bump violations aren't going to write themselves.
;)
Sorry I don't do that. Picked up Captain last month. :blurgh:
Quote from: mongers on December 03, 2015, 04:40:32 PM
Seigy you were half-right in that it applies to Obama, but with reference to the emotional maturity of the crowd for whom he is a traitorous, foreigner aiming to bring America to its knees.
And we have a winner!
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 09:38:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 09:25:53 PM
It is remarkable how quick conservatives have gone from "how dare you politicize this", to "how dare you say this isn't politics!".
Who's doing that?
Conservatives. It's right there in the beginning of the sentence. :rolleyes: Just watched a video that of some gal from the Blaze going on about how this was political and how Obama refused to "name our enemy", or whatever. Prior to the news dropping I saw numerous posts about how bad it was that Obama trying to gain political points off this tragedy for restrictive gun agenda. It must be a good day for conservatives. Knocked the abortion clinic shooter right off the front page and focus back on the evil Muslims. Watching Ted Cruz claim it was some sort of transgendered activist attacking the clinic or Fox news claiming that the abortion clinic attack actually a bank robbery was amusing.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 10:10:26 PM
:lol: Anyway if there's anyone giddy about a Planned Parenthood shooting, it's you.
Bullshit. Violence against clinics has a direct and immediate impact on daily operations, and a day without an abortion is a day without sunshine. Besides, today's abortions are tomorrow's improved rush hour commute times.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 09:50:04 PM
About it being white people and not Islamists. And don't hide behind that "-style" thing. That's more pathetic than the Ravens defense this year.
:huh: So, Semetic people aren't "white" any more? Or is it just Muslims who aren't "white?"
You racists always confuse me about what you mean by "white."
And this does have all the hallmarks of workplace violence. This couple may well have planned to engage in terrorism (it sure looks like that from here), but it is clear that the attack that took place was workplace-related (given the targets and the details about what preceded the violence).
I won't ask you to admit that you are wrong - we all know that isn't happening. I'd ask that you stop insisting that everyone who disagrees with you admit that they are wrong, though. That's beneath you.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2015, 10:45:07 PM
Conservatives. It's right there in the beginning of the sentence. :rolleyes:
It was a bit vague. I didn't know if you were going after conservatives here (the huge number that we are) or conservatives elsewhere. Carry on.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 10:47:48 PM
Bullshit. Violence against clinics has a direct and immediate impact on daily operations, and a day without an abortion is a day without sunshine. Besides, today's abortions are tomorrow's improved rush hour commute times.
Yeah, but on the other hand it gives you a chance to try & slander all pro-life folks based on the actions of a lone nutter. And you love doing that.
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 10:47:48 PM
Bullshit. Violence against clinics has a direct and immediate impact on daily operations, and a day without an abortion is a day without sunshine. Besides, today's abortions are tomorrow's improved rush hour commute times.
Yeah, but on the other hand it gives you a chance to try & slander all pro-life folks based on the actions of a lone nutter. And you love doing that.
Yeah, we can't be slandering a whole group of people because of the actions of a violent minority, can we?
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 11:15:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 10:47:48 PM
Bullshit. Violence against clinics has a direct and immediate impact on daily operations, and a day without an abortion is a day without sunshine. Besides, today's abortions are tomorrow's improved rush hour commute times.
Yeah, but on the other hand it gives you a chance to try & slander all pro-life folks based on the actions of a lone nutter. And you love doing that.
Yeah, we can't be slandering a whole group of people because of the actions of a violent minority, can we?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol:
You can't fight racism with racism.
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 11:15:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 10:47:48 PM
Bullshit. Violence against clinics has a direct and immediate impact on daily operations, and a day without an abortion is a day without sunshine. Besides, today's abortions are tomorrow's improved rush hour commute times.
Yeah, but on the other hand it gives you a chance to try & slander all pro-life folks based on the actions of a lone nutter. And you love doing that.
Yeah, we can't be slandering a whole group of people because of the actions of a violent minority, can we?
:face:
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 10:52:51 PM
:huh: So, Semetic people aren't "white" any more? Or is it just Muslims who aren't "white?"
He was kind of brown-skinned and from what I heard she's Pakistani. I'll ignore your other gibberish.
Quote from: grumbler on December 03, 2015, 11:15:08 PM
Yeah, we can't be slandering a whole group of people because of the actions of a violent minority, can we?
Who's doing that?
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2015, 10:47:48 PM
Bullshit. Violence against clinics has a direct and immediate impact on daily operations, and a day without an abortion is a day without sunshine. Besides, today's abortions are tomorrow's improved rush hour commute times.
Yeah, but on the other hand it gives you a chance to try & slander all pro-life folks based on the actions of a lone nutter. And you love doing that.
If Muslims must repudiate terrorists every time one of their number shoots someone, why shouldn't American conservatives?
CNN's 5 things to start your day are the San Bernardino shooting, the Senate vote for Obamacare repeal, US military combat positions are now open to women, some follow ups on the Paris Terror Attacks and the Republican candidates talk at the Republican Jewish Coalition forum. They titled it:
Friday's 5 Things: A fighting chance, a song and dance, a murderous romance (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/new-day-five-things/index.html)
Nothing says "Senseless tragedy" quite like rhyme.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 03, 2015, 08:00:23 PM
So, Jewish radicals?
He's a negotiator, just like them. (http://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458329895/trump-to-jewish-republicans-im-a-negotiator-like-you-folks) :)
CNN is reporting, investigating official are saying a link with ISIS has been established. Further the wife posted on Facebook her alliance to the leader of ISIS.
Investigators are saying this is looking more and more like self radicalization.
No link yet.
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
That number includes suicides tho.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
Yes, thanks.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 10:40:05 AM
That number includes suicides tho.
Are those not dead people? Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 10:24:56 AM
CNN is reporting, investigating official are saying a link with ISIS has been established. Further the wife posted on Facebook her alliance to the leader of ISIS.
Investigators are saying this is looking more and more like self radicalization.
No link yet.
Yeah that is what I thought.
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
What is to be done though? The Supreme Court pretty much decided this.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
The murder rate in 2013 (latest year we have stats for) was the lowest since 1957. That's the lowest in 56 years. So, while mass shootings are way up in the last two decades, for the vast majority of Americans they're just something depressing they see on the news. They don't affect them and make them feel personally unsafe like the epidemic of violence that accompanied the crack wars of the 80s. Given that, I don't think there's much likelyhood for any change on the gun issue.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 04, 2015, 11:07:25 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
The murder rate in 2013 (latest year we have stats for) was the lowest since 1957. That's the lowest in 56 years. So, while mass shootings are way up in the last two decades, for the vast majority of Americans they're just something depressing they see on the news. They don't affect them and make them feel personally unsafe like the epidemic of violence that accompanied the crack wars of the 80s. Given that, I don't think there's much likelyhood for any change on the gun issue.
If people like you stick their head in the sand, you are right.
Gun violence is not about mass shootings. That is a tiny, tiny portion of it.
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
What is to be done though? The Supreme Court pretty much decided this.
I don't think that is entirely true. There are plenty of laws restricting gun sales and capabilities that are perfectly Constitutional. And the USSC is not unchangeable - it was a change to invent the personal right to carry arms to begin with, and it can change again, if enough people want it to change.
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
No, global warming is causing the terrorism.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 10:40:05 AM
That number includes suicides tho.
Oh, well, I guess they aren't really dead then.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
No, global warming is causing the terrorism.
Without it it would be too cold in San Bernardino to think about Salafism.
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
No the Saudis that bombed the towers were doing OK
The more typical pattern IIRC is someone able to find some decent employment but not what they had expected based on their education and background, or ambition.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
No, global warming is causing the terrorism.
There is a pretty good correlation between warming surface temperatures and the rise of radical Islamic terrorism.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
7 years ago to be exact.
QuoteI don't think that is entirely true. There are plenty of laws restricting gun sales and capabilities that are perfectly Constitutional.
Correct. So far most regs that have been challenged under Heller have been upheld.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
No, global warming is causing the terrorism.
There is a pretty good correlation between warming surface temperatures and the rise of radical Islamic terrorism.
There is no question that economic and political upheaval directly leads to the empowerment of radical ideologies. The historic examples of everywhere.
The death toll from global warming is going to be in the tens of millions, completely outside the actual physical effects.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2015, 11:15:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
No the Saudis that bombed the towers were doing OK
The more typical pattern IIRC is someone able to find some decent employment but not what they had expected based on their education and background, or ambition.
:secret: He was mocking the "bleak economic realities" rationalization.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
There is a pretty good correlation between warming surface temperatures and the rise of radical Islamic terrorism.
It's the decline of pirates with parrots that's doing it. That's been scientifically proven.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
There is a pretty good correlation between warming surface temperatures and the rise of radical Islamic terrorism.
It's the decline of pirates with parrots that's doing it. That's been scientifically proven.
I don't think there is real scientific consensus on that yet. It is a strong theory though.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
There is a pretty good correlation between warming surface temperatures and the rise of radical Islamic terrorism.
There we go!
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 10:40:05 AM
That number includes suicides tho.
Are those not dead people? Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
A number of them, yes. Not all of course. I think there's data outthere that proves that more people survive a suicidal pass when access to guns is harder.
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
Don't know about Grey Fox, but I will assert that. I do not see the evidence that the availability of a gun increases the likelihood of someone acting on their suicidal ideations by a statistically significant degree. It may well increase the likelihood of success, but that is a somewhat different moral debate.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 11:11:36 AM
Oh, well, I guess they aren't really dead then.
I do not consider dead by your own hand violence, so I think including suicides in violence numbers is intellectually dishonest.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 04, 2015, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 11:11:36 AM
Oh, well, I guess they aren't really dead then.
I do not consider dead by your own hand violence, so I think including suicides in violence numbers is intellectually dishonest.
I think drawing such a distinction is ludicrous.
Self inflicted violence is still violence, and whatever word you want to use to describe humans beings going from alive to dead through the use of a tool designed to thrown small pieces of metal at high rates of speed into human bodies, it doesn't really change the message in the least.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 04, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
Don't know about Grey Fox, but I will assert that. I do not see the evidence that the availability of a gun increases the likelihood of someone acting on their suicidal ideations by a statistically significant degree. It may well increase the likelihood of success, but that is a somewhat different moral debate.
Yeah, it is surely crazy talk to imagine that access to a tool which humans have specifically designed to efficiently kill humans would have a profound impact on the ability to humans to actually kill humans, whether they be themselves or others.
When you say 'so and so many people die every year to gun violence' it does give the impression of homicides IMO. It might be good to note that this includes accidents and suicides just so people understand what is being said.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
There is a pretty good correlation between warming surface temperatures and the rise of radical Islamic terrorism.
It's the decline of pirates with parrots that's doing it. That's been scientifically proven.
R-squared FTW
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 12:27:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 10:40:05 AM
That number includes suicides tho.
Are those not dead people? Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
A number of them, yes. Not all of course. I think there's data outthere that proves that more people survive a suicidal pass when access to guns is harder.
Apparently some studies concerning the Australian gun laws point to it.
"Other studies are more hesitant to draw conclusions about homicides, but generally agree that the law did a lot to reduce suicides."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 12:45:15 PM
When you say 'so and so many people die every year to gun violence' it does give the impression of homicides IMO. It might be good to note that this includes accidents and suicides just so people understand what is being said.
Should I define any other words in that statement as well, in case people don't know (for instance) that "years" includes leap years, so sometimes it might be 366 days instead of 365?
Whatever - the point I am making is not at all reliant on whether or not people intuitively understand that it does or does not include suicides and little Johnny accidently shooting his sister.
The idea that anyone could see these kinds of numbers and think "Well yeah, that is bad, but since some of those dead people were only dead because of an accident, it is ok" is morally bankrupt.
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 10:24:56 AM
CNN is reporting, investigating official are saying a link with ISIS has been established. Further the wife posted on Facebook her alliance to the leader of ISIS.
Investigators are saying this is looking more and more like self radicalization.
No link yet.
Yeah that is what I thought.
Hey a comfortably middle class guy in the First World becomes a radical fundy and commits acts of terrorism. I thought these guys were supposed to be forced into this because of their bleak economic realities?
what some people will do for poon/love/yada yada
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 12:52:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 12:45:15 PM
When you say 'so and so many people die every year to gun violence' it does give the impression of homicides IMO. It might be good to note that this includes accidents and suicides just so people understand what is being said.
Should I define any other words in that statement as well, in case people don't know (for instance) that "years" includes leap years, so sometimes it might be 366 days instead of 365?
Whatever - the point I am making is not at all reliant on whether or not people intuitively understand that it does or does not include suicides and little Johnny accidently shooting his sister.
The idea that anyone could see these kinds of numbers and think "Well yeah, that is bad, but since some of those dead people were only dead because of an accident, it is ok" is morally bankrupt.
I think it informs on the dangers of guns actually and clarifies what is being said. It wasn't at you specifically just these kinds of stats in general.
It does seem to matter whether the damage is inflicted against someone's will or not. Smoking laws in theory are designed to protect people from second-hand smoke. In practice they're of course designed to protect people from themselves, but for whatever reasons it was necessary to engage in this useful lying to actually save millions of lives.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 04, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
Don't know about Grey Fox, but I will assert that. I do not see the evidence that the availability of a gun increases the likelihood of someone acting on their suicidal ideations by a statistically significant degree. It may well increase the likelihood of success, but that is a somewhat different moral debate.
Well I disagree. I think removing tools that people can use does cut down on the extent to which a suicide actually takes place. I doubt said person is going to suddenly go - hey hanging might be a fun way.
This is looking more and more like radical Islam, ISIS and AQ inspired. FBI is now saying that Husband had reached out to AQ and wife had pledged allegiance to ISIS. Wife may have been the radicalized one first in her home country.
All those guns and thousands of rounds of ammo, 7k rounds. Given that a box of ammo costs 50 bucks, maybe more now; it's been a long time since I've seen prices for ammo. Plus the tactical gear, explosives and the gear to work them are similar to AQ tactics. Lots of people seen coming and going from the home, lots of deliveries. They had to have help setting all that stuff up and acquiring all the ammo and bombs, other members of a cell.
The couple planted several bombs in the building to detonate remotely when first responders arrived. That's probably why they didn't immediately flee the general area. Bombs didn't go off; speculation that the sprinkler system shorted something out, or another reason.
It seems possible that there was another primary target, that the party either was just the first step or the couple chose that instead. Because it seems a bit unlikely that they'd have so much help, ammo and gear for this attack when they had the makings to attack something much larger, and maybe do so with others in their cell. There's likely a cell of people to pull all this gear/ammo/bombs together and the money needed.
They did this at a Christmas party, seems a setting that such radicals would go to. Again, was this the primary target or one of opportunity for the couple going it alone? Plus as said, it looks like they had planted bombs to set off with the first responders.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 11:24:07 AM
I don't think there is real scientific consensus on that yet. It is a strong theory though.
Pirate/Parrot-denier! :mad:
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2015, 11:39:24 PM
Who's doing that?
You are, but please deny that you are.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 04, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Or are you trying to suggest that said people would kill themselves even if they didn't have a gun?
Don't know about Grey Fox, but I will assert that. I do not see the evidence that the availability of a gun increases the likelihood of someone acting on their suicidal ideations by a statistically significant degree. It may well increase the likelihood of success, but that is a somewhat different moral debate.
Yeah, it is surely crazy talk to imagine that access to a tool which humans have specifically designed to efficiently kill humans would have a profound impact on the ability to humans to actually kill humans, whether they be themselves or others.
Argument dismissed as non-responsive.
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 01:08:49 PM
Well I disagree. I think removing tools that people can use does cut down on the extent to which a suicide actually takes place. I doubt said person is going to suddenly go - hey hanging might be a fun way.
This begs the question that suicide is, itself, intrinsically bad.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 01:08:49 PM
Well I disagree. I think removing tools that people can use does cut down on the extent to which a suicide actually takes place. I doubt said person is going to suddenly go - hey hanging might be a fun way.
This begs the question that suicide is, itself, intrinsically bad.
I actually do not think that suicide is in itself
necessarily bad.
I do think that the vast majority of people who commit suicide do so for "bad" reasons, and as a society we should in fact takes reasonable steps to avoid most of them.
What B said.
RIP Hitler. :(
Quote from: The Brain on December 04, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
RIP Hitler. :(
Well, however bad a guy he was, he can't have been all bad - after all, he
did kill Hitler. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on December 04, 2015, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 04, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
RIP Hitler. :(
Well, however bad a guy he was, he can't have been all bad - after all, he did kill Hitler. ;)
Did they ever save his brain btw?
Good point M.
How many millions just talked about it, or even a few who feebly tried and failed?
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
I actually do not think that suicide is in itself necessarily bad.
I do think that the vast majority of people who commit suicide do so for "bad" reasons, and as a society we should in fact takes reasonable steps to avoid most of them.
So you want "society" to enforce your own personal opinions on suicide? How does "society" do that?
Quote from: Malthus on December 04, 2015, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 04, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
RIP Hitler. :(
Well, however bad a guy he was, he can't have been all bad - after all, he did kill Hitler. ;)
:lol: It's almost odd that i didn't think of that quip nor have I read it.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 02:00:34 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
I actually do not think that suicide is in itself necessarily bad.
I do think that the vast majority of people who commit suicide do so for "bad" reasons, and as a society we should in fact takes reasonable steps to avoid most of them.
So you want "society" to enforce your own personal opinions on suicide? How does "society" do that?
:hmm:
When the press was crowded into the perp's apartment today and acting like jackels, I was sorta hoping the FBI missed a bomb in there.
Just me? Okay.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 02:25:09 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 02:00:34 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
I actually do not think that suicide is in itself necessarily bad.
I do think that the vast majority of people who commit suicide do so for "bad" reasons, and as a society we should in fact takes reasonable steps to avoid most of them.
So you want "society" to enforce your own personal opinions on suicide? How does "society" do that?
:hmm:
Yeah, that was about the extent of my response as well...
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 02:25:09 PM
:hmm:
Yeah, that was about the extent of my response as well...
That's almost exactly what I suspected. People claim that they are for liberty, but in reality they are for controlling what other people actually do when those other people do "bad" things.
One very good reason for excluding suicides from the gun fatality totals is there are no innocent victims of suicide.
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 02:38:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2015, 02:25:09 PM
:hmm:
Yeah, that was about the extent of my response as well...
That's almost exactly what I suspected. People claim that they are for liberty, but in reality they are for controlling what other people actually do when those other people do "bad" things.
Uh huh.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 02:39:42 PM
One very good reason for excluding suicides from the gun fatality totals is there are no innocent victims of suicide.
Perhaps not fatalities but there sure as hell can be victims.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 02:39:42 PM
One very good reason for excluding suicides from the gun fatality totals is there are no innocent victims of suicide.
:hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on December 04, 2015, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 02:39:42 PM
One very good reason for excluding suicides from the gun fatality totals is there are no innocent victims of suicide.
:hmm:
Yeah, I'm just gonna second this, ignore my previous post.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 02:39:42 PM
One very good reason for excluding suicides from the gun fatality totals is there are no innocent victims of suicide.
If we assumed that it even reasonably true, that would be a good reason to exclude suicides from gun fatality totals involving innocent victims.
It would be stupid to exclude them from "gun fatality totals" though. In fact, it would be downright deceitful to do so.
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...
.. The FBI will take it to be a duck-billed platypus?
Quote from: mongers on December 04, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...
.. The FBI will take it to be a duck-billed platypus?
I was going to say it is a sheep so the Welsh will want to have sex with it. But that is more relevant.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
One would hope they had never stopped. But this is the FBI we're talking about.
"You asked for miracles, Theo? I give you the F.B.I."
Quote from: mongers on December 04, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 03:43:35 PM
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...
.. The FBI will take it to be a duck-billed platypus?
...And then charge the platypus, keep the platypus's mother's Tupperware, set its compound on fire--and in response, Congress will cut the ATF's budget.
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 03:47:48 PM
I was going to say it is a sheep so the Welsh will want to have sex with it. But that is more relevant.
The second Welsh sheep-shagging dig I've seen from you today. Why is that? Are you mad they canceled Bastard Executioner? :hmm:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 03:52:05 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 04, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2015, 03:43:35 PM
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...
.. The FBI will take it to be a duck-billed platypus?
...And then charge the platypus, keep the platypus's mother's Tupperware, set its compound on fire--and in response, Congress will cut the ATF's budget.
:D
Money have you seen this documentary about an FBI undercover informant/sting operation?
http://terrordocumentary.org/ (http://terrordocumentary.org/)
Ah, my sister finally joined the discussion:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12191978_536912853123823_7960479885145016254_n.jpg?oh=0e4cdccfe1456cfea98470d0b5a863cb&oe=56F34602&__gda__=1457301504_c4d267a7e109cddcf64c3955121ef9e2)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12313958_845266465586412_7302134609462296179_n.jpg?oh=6a8a5d12673054861258e21f74f01e8c&oe=56EC46AD&__gda__=1456905627_6ba3e0b5513429a48a4bf61b09956f6e)
Well, that's probably because in Paris it's a once in a decade event, and in the U.S. it's "Wednesday." :rolleyes:
Sorry for constantly bringing their posts here, but I need this place to vent. :P
Yeah the pointing out that gun laws do not reduce gun violence and every new attack only further proves this has been splattered all over my facebook as well. Zuckerberg really is worse than CarnegieHitler.
I do like how not only is gun control wrong but YOU ARE CAUSING MORE ATTACKS BY BEING FOR IT...somehow.
The false equivalency with the French Flag thing is new though. Man I think I literally would be a millionaire if I had a nickle for every false equivalency meme.
I should mention that my sister also changed her FB picture to a US flag.
Quote from: Syt on December 04, 2015, 04:25:05 PM
I should mention that my sister also changed her FB picture to a US flag.
Converts are always the worst.
If any of your friends are thinking of moving to America you need to show them what living here will do to Euros after awhile.
Quote from: Syt on December 04, 2015, 04:20:56 PM
....
Sorry for constantly bringing their posts here, but I need this place to vent. :P
It's not just you, I think we could do with a internet meme/social media venting mega thread; something along the lines. "Stupid shit my family/friends post, so I'll Rolleyes about it here, because I can't rip into them elsewhere"
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Awesome.
In other news...someone did some counting and is claiming that gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all our wars put together since the American Revolution.
I don't think most people even really understand the incredible scale of carnage that we experience in this country from guns. 33,000 deaths per year. That is as many as are killed in car crashes.
I think the number just kind of blanks out for most Americans - it might as well be 3,000 or 300,000 or 33.
But no matter. We must protect our RAHTS! The ones we invented a couple decades ago.
Those numbers are probably less than auto related deaths, and way less than cancer or heart disease. In the end we just haven't had very many people killed in wars.
I don't own a gun, have no use ever owning a gun, and at the same time my risk of death from gun violence is basically nil. People who aren't involved in crime, aren't going to commit suicide, aren't in a violently abusive relationship, and are rarely around guns have a very low risk of dying through gun violence. The mass shootings get publicity and discussion precisely because they confront people like me with the prospect of our own violent death. It doesn't change how incredibly unlikely it is.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
One would hope they had never stopped. But this is the FBI we're talking about.
"You asked for miracles, Theo? I give you the F.B.I."
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism, so I figured I'd mention it.
Quote from: Syt on December 04, 2015, 04:25:05 PM
I should mention that my sister also changed her FB picture to a US flag.
My brother did that.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 05:23:43 PM
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism, so I figured I'd mention it.
Today we are all County Departments of Public Health.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 05:23:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
One would hope they had never stopped. But this is the FBI we're talking about.
"You asked for miracles, Theo? I give you the F.B.I."
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism, so I figured I'd mention it.
300 odd mass shootings this year, and finally one that makes you smile.
The whole media home invasion gig was odd, guess you can't blame the landlord for wanting to make a quick buck, but man how seedy were those tv reporters to go through someone's bedroom closets, it's almost like they've little actual journalistic skills to fall back on and you know do some real reporting. :gasp:
It was pretty weird. Also pretty weird that the family came, kicked them out, and sealed the door.
Quote from: mongers on December 04, 2015, 06:52:02 PM
The whole media home invasion gig was odd, guess you can't blame the landlord for wanting to make a quick buck, but man how seedy were those tv reporters to go through someone's bedroom closets, it's almost like they've little actual journalistic skills to fall back on and you know do some real reporting. :gasp:
I can maybe understand why a journalist riled up by the atmosphere of everybody else going in wants to also report this, but don't these people have editors? Producers? If Newsroom taught me anything and it didn't but if it did which it almost certainly did not but let's say that it did even if it really didn't then this is where an ethical well spoken guy would come in and say stop.
Liep be tweeking.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 07:07:09 PM
It was pretty weird. Also pretty weird that the family came, kicked them out, and sealed the door.
:lol:
I didn't see that bit, just the initial scrum and then someone rummaging through the kids clothes.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 07:15:52 PM
Liep be tweeking.
No other person makes me turn to urbandictionary.com as much as you.
Quote from: mongers on December 04, 2015, 07:17:06 PM
:lol:
I didn't see that bit just the initial scrum and then someone rummaging through the kids cloths.
CNN mentioned it but didn't have footage.
Quote from: Liep on December 04, 2015, 07:18:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2015, 07:15:52 PM
Liep be tweeking.
No other person makes me turn to urbandictionary.com as much as you.
Damn blue collar tweekers.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
'Bout time they came out with that.
Seedy, dust off your snub nosed six shooter from the closet. This is only the beginning.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
'Bout time they came out with that.
Seedy, dust off your snub nosed six shooter from the closet. This is only the beginning.
Time to open carry my SKS! :w00t:
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 04, 2015, 08:37:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
'Bout time they came out with that.
Seedy, dust off your snub nosed six shooter from the closet. This is only the beginning.
Time to open carry my SKS! :w00t:
:lol: IAW open carry laws of course.
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
Uh huh.
Are you implying that some people commit suicide for mental health reasons or for reasons of temporary weakness, and by addressing those reasons it would be possible to lower the number of suicides without interfering with people's liberties?
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 08:40:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 04, 2015, 08:37:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
'Bout time they came out with that.
Seedy, dust off your snub nosed six shooter from the closet. This is only the beginning.
Time to open carry my SKS! :w00t:
:lol: IAW open carry laws of course.
I'm clear!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcl.jroo.me%2Fz3%2FQ%2F8%2FG%2Fe%2Fa.baa-Overloaded-Soldier.jpg&hash=9f915da6229ec84d259c6265e8af94d6f793ad51)
I'm ready!
Is Trump going to kill their families?
Quote from: Jacob on December 04, 2015, 08:41:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
Uh huh.
Are you implying that some people commit suicide for mental health reasons or for reasons of temporary weakness, and by addressing those reasons it would be possible to lower the number of suicides without interfering with people's liberties?
I know personally two people who have committed suicide with handguns. One was a retired Army colonel, the father of my then-fiance, who was faced with the recurrence of his liver cancer, and couldn't bear to put his wife through another round of chemo and radiation and himself suffer all that pain, only to die in the end. The other was a former student who suffered from a psychiatric disorder that was only intermittently treatable by drugs, suffered a breakdown, killed his father in a paranoid rage, and couldn't live with the guilt and the knowledge that he might (despite medical care) do it again. I consider both of those deaths to be merciful, though neither would qualify for any kind of medical assisted suicide even if the law allowed it. So, I'm not so quick to say that suicide is a bad thing.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVRCFgaUwAEk03l.jpg:large)
Quote from: Jacob on December 04, 2015, 08:41:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
Uh huh.
Are you implying that some people commit suicide for mental health reasons or for reasons of temporary weakness, and by addressing those reasons it would be possible to lower the number of suicides without interfering with people's liberties?
That would be rather difficult. Addressing mental health issues or "temporary weakness", may very well interfere with those people's liberties.
Quote from: Jacob on December 04, 2015, 08:41:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
Uh huh.
Are you implying that some people commit suicide for mental health reasons or for reasons of temporary weakness, and by addressing those reasons it would be possible to lower the number of suicides without interfering with people's liberties?
If you want me to respond to your question, please ask it outside the context of grumblers strawman. I am more than happy to discuss it.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 11:13:29 PM
Not clips stupid cnn broad. Magazines.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2454785.1449198667%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_635%2Fusa-california-shooting.jpg&hash=2634182baf65abe0434b0be3181190ef6e4364b0)
Lulz, not so fast, Pyle.
I also liked that after they shot the dude dead, they handcuffed him.
Still have to follow custodial procedures while effecting the arrest of a suspect. Whether or not he's dead, that's the EMTs problem.
That Chicago cop would have kept firing.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 09:18:52 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2015, 11:13:29 PM
Not clips stupid cnn broad. Magazines.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2454785.1449198667%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_635%2Fusa-california-shooting.jpg&hash=2634182baf65abe0434b0be3181190ef6e4364b0)
Lulz, not so fast, Pyle.
She said that way before those photos were released. Also she was talking about witness accounts from the initial attack at the center.
Your rusty. Swing and a miss. Try again please. :blurgh:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Swinging_strikeout.jpg/1081px-Swinging_strikeout.jpg)
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 09:51:08 PM
Swing and a miss. Try again please.
You've risen to new levels of cuntiness. Did that come with the collar pins?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 09:53:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 09:51:08 PM
Swing and a miss. Try again please.
You've risen to new levels of cuntiness. Did that come with the collar pins?
It's in my job requirement as Patrol Captain.
Besides after twelve years on this site, I learned from the best. :worthy:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 09:37:26 PM
Still have to follow custodial procedures while effecting the arrest of a suspect. Whether or not he's dead, that's the EMTs problem.
:yes: :yes:
Quote from: Razgovory on December 04, 2015, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 05:23:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2015, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 03:40:23 PM
FBI is investigating the case as terrorism.
One would hope they had never stopped. But this is the FBI we're talking about.
"You asked for miracles, Theo? I give you the F.B.I."
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism, so I figured I'd mention it.
300 odd mass shootings this year, and finally one that makes you smile.
You ought to walk back that statement.
Oh? You seem pretty pleased with the situation.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-victims-htmlstory.html
Quote from: Razgovory on December 05, 2015, 02:03:47 PM
Oh? You seem pretty pleased with the situation.
You know I'm not pleased with anything about it. Take it back.
Quote from: derspiess on December 05, 2015, 02:28:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 05, 2015, 02:03:47 PM
Oh? You seem pretty pleased with the situation.
You know I'm not pleased with anything about it. Take it back.
You mean after you accuse Seedy of the same thing? Yeah, I don't think so.
Fine.
Raz strikes again!
Quote from: Jaron on December 05, 2015, 02:55:46 PM
Raz strikes again!
Yea, like watching an autistic 12yo with tourettes.
I don't know what derspiess was expecting when he asked Raz to take back a statement that was so clearly devoid of reason.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 03:03:48 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 05, 2015, 02:55:46 PM
Raz strikes again!
Yea, like watching an autistic 12yo with tourettes.
When have you seen Raz curse someone out?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 05, 2015, 04:12:15 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 03:03:48 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 05, 2015, 02:55:46 PM
Raz strikes again!
Yea, like watching an autistic 12yo with tourettes.
When have you seen Raz curse someone out?
Stereotyper
Quote
Despite the common misconception that Tourette's syndrome is defined by uncontrollable and socially inappropriate cursing, only 10 percent of Tourette's patients actually exhibit that symptom. Most have milder tics like rapid blinking , shoulder-shrugging and throat-clearing. Coprolalia, the involuntary utterance of obscenities, profanities and derogatory remarks, is an extreme example of a vocal tic experienced by some people with Tourette's.
http://livescience.com/33384-tourette-syndrome-people-curse-uncontrollably.html
OK. When have you seen Raz compulsively clear his throat, shrug his shoulders or blink?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 05, 2015, 04:27:13 PM
OK. When have you seen Raz compulsively clear his throat, shrug his shoulders or blink?
That's better.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 05:23:43 PM
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism, so I figured I'd mention it.
Who would want it to be terrorism?
I always imagine Raz rocking angrily back and forth in his basement between posts.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 05, 2015, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 05:23:43 PM
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism, so I figured I'd mention it.
Who would want it to be terrorism?
You're kinda missing the point.
Quote from: Jaron on December 05, 2015, 04:41:24 PM
I always imagine Raz rocking angrily back and forth in his basement between posts.
I'm not comfortable with you fantasizing about me.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 05, 2015, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 05, 2015, 04:41:24 PM
I always imagine Raz rocking angrily back and forth in his basement between posts.
I'm not comfortable with you fantasizing about me.
:lol:
More Americans exercising their NRA provided right to carry concealed.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/7-year-old-girl-killed-at-mi-soccer-practice-after-paranoid-man-with-concealed-carry-license-opens-fire/
If we controlled guns, then only criminals would have guns. It is a good thing non-criminals have guns to protect us!
:hmm:
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 05:31:24 PM
More Americans exercising their NRA provided right to carry concealed.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/7-year-old-girl-killed-at-mi-soccer-practice-after-paranoid-man-with-concealed-carry-license-opens-fire/
If we controlled guns, then only criminals would have guns. It is a good thing non-criminals have guns to protect us!
I can do that too.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html
Quote
Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.
The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.
A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. Friday in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.
The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.
I strongly suspect that if you do a competition you'll run out of examples well before Berkut does.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 05, 2015, 06:04:30 PM
I strongly suspect that if you do a competition you'll run out of examples well before Berkut does.
No doubt.
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 05:31:24 PM
More Americans exercising their NRA provided right to carry concealed.
Oh and this is just a stupid statement.
You wonder why the moderates among gun owners, the folks you need on your side for better gun control, basically think your as nutty as the gun nut diehards.
What is the conservative obsession with the the phrase "Radical Islamic terrorism"? They keep demanding the President say it for some reason. Is it some kind of magic spell that will defeat the enemy if we say the words of power?
Quote from: Razgovory on December 05, 2015, 06:46:34 PM
What is the conservative obsession with the the phrase "Radical Islamic terrorism"? They keep demanding the President say it for some reason. Is it some kind of magic spell that will defeat the enemy if we say the words of power?
They think he's an Islamic sympathizer.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 06:23:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 05:31:24 PM
More Americans exercising their NRA provided right to carry concealed.
Oh and this is just a stupid statement.
You wonder why the moderates among gun owners, the folks you need on your side for better gun control, basically think your as nutty as the gun nut diehards.
What is stupid about it?
We have laws and standards that allow clearly deranged people to carry concealed guns and shoot children because the NRA has spent decades fighting and demanding that they be allowed to do so - that in fact any attempt to restrict it in any way at all is reasonable grounds for hysteria. They do things like refuse to enforce existing laws, defund organization responsible for controlling the sale of weapons, even going so far as to refuse to allow government agencies to function if any kind of that agencies mandate includes things like background checks.
There are consequences to the ridiculous manner in which the MOAR GUNS NO MATTER WHAT crowd has shaped how we (do not) control who is allowed to carry any and all weapons. That dead girl is one of those consequences.
Wait a minute, I can shoot children with my conceal carry permit? WHY WASN'T I TOLD EARLIER OF THIS?
All those wasted years of having to tolerate snot nosed brats. :(
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 06:48:46 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 06:23:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 05:31:24 PM
More Americans exercising their NRA provided right to carry concealed.
Oh and this is just a stupid statement.
You wonder why the moderates among gun owners, the folks you need on your side for better gun control, basically think your as nutty as the gun nut diehards.
What is stupid about it?
The nra does not give that apparent right. You know that so quit being obtuse. A misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment does.
You can articulate a better formulated argument than shrillness.
Spare everyone will you.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 06:51:26 PM
Wait a minute, I can shoot children with my conceal carry permit? WHY WASN'T I TOLD EARLIER OF THIS?
All those wasted years of having to tolerate snot nosed brats. :(
Ha priceless :lol:
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic/automatic hand guns, machine pistols, etc. should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
No grandfathered or exemptions whatsoever.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns, that fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic hand guns should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns that, fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
I don't really agree with you in regards to what should be banned.
But I think the key to actually coming up with a practical method for reducing the guns out there is to start with a long term plan. There is no possible short term solution to reducing the availability of guns.
But there is a generational plan that could work.
Start by grandfathering in all existing guns in private hands.
Next, start taxing the holy shit out of new gun sales. Say, 100% tax.
Cripple the gun manufacturing industry in its current fashion where they are just flooding the market with guns.
Next, use that tax revenue to start buying guns from private individuals, and destroying them. Hell, we spend trillions on fighting wars, we could spend a few billions on buying up some of the 200 million guns we have.
At the same time, start up a media campaign to counter the "ZOMG GUNS ARE SO COOL!" attitude that pervades American society. This is probably not a direct government thing.
In a generation or so, I think we could change the gun crazy culture in America.
And you likely don't really have to "ban" much of anything.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 06:51:26 PM
Wait a minute, I can shoot children with my conceal carry permit? WHY WASN'T I TOLD EARLIER OF THIS?
All those wasted years of having to tolerate snot nosed brats. :(
Ha priceless :lol:
I wonder what my security clearance allows me to do. :hmm:
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 07:34:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic hand guns should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns that, fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
I don't really agree with you in regards to what should be banned.
But I think the key to actually coming up with a practical method for reducing the guns out there is to start with a long term plan. There is no possible short term solution to reducing the availability of guns.
But there is a generational plan that could work.
Start by grandfathering in all existing guns in private hands.
Next, start taxing the holy shit out of new gun sales. Say, 100% tax.
Cripple the gun manufacturing industry in its current fashion where they are just flooding the market with guns.
Next, use that tax revenue to start buying guns from private individuals, and destroying them. Hell, we spend trillions on fighting wars, we could spend a few billions on buying up some of the 200 million guns we have.
At the same time, start up a media campaign to counter the "ZOMG GUNS ARE SO COOL!" attitude that pervades American society. This is probably not a direct government thing.
In a generation or so, I think we could change the gun crazy culture in America.
And you likely don't really have to "ban" much of anything.
Workable start IMO.
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 06:48:46 PM
We have laws and standards that allow clearly deranged people to carry concealed guns and shoot children because the NRA has spent decades fighting and demanding that they be allowed to do so - that in fact any attempt to restrict it in any way at all is reasonable grounds for hysteria.
This I was completely unaware of. Is it just some states that allow clearly deranged people to get concealed carry permits or all of them?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 05, 2015, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 06:48:46 PM
We have laws and standards that allow clearly deranged people to carry concealed guns and shoot children because the NRA has spent decades fighting and demanding that they be allowed to do so - that in fact any attempt to restrict it in any way at all is reasonable grounds for hysteria.
This I was completely unaware of. Is it just some states that allow clearly deranged people to get concealed carry permits or all of them?
Of course you are aware of it. You would have to be living under a rock to be unaware of the lengths the gun lobby has gone to in the US to scuttle any attempt to control access to guns.
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 07:44:13 PM
Of course you are aware of it. You would have to be living under a rock to be unaware of the lengths the gun lobby has gone to in the US to scuttle any attempt to control access to guns.
I was well aware of the lengths the gun lobby has gone to to etc. etc. What I was totally unaware of was the current laws that allow clearly deranged people to get concealed carry permits.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic/automatic hand guns, machine pistols, etc. should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
No grandfathered or exemptions whatsoever.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns, that fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
Interesting 11B4V.
By on the streets do you mean out just the total number of guns or does it refer to illegally held guns?
In the US there's what 200+ million* legally held firearms, won't the majority be semi-automatic/automatic given the recent decades of consumerisation of weapons? So couldn't it be as high as 100-150 million ??
I don't see it happening, anything that takes a category of firearms that covers a million plus particular weapons, is going to cause such a special interest political shit storm that the legislation won't get passed.
On a side issue, is it possible for Americans in some states to own M2s, Miniguns (XM-whatever) ?
I'd anything containing a principally explosive warhead, even something from a M79 would be illegal
* figure plucked out of the air.
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2015, 07:50:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic/automatic hand guns, machine pistols, etc. should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
No grandfathered or exemptions whatsoever.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns, that fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
Interesting 11B4V.
By on the streets do you mean out just the total number of guns or does it refer to illegally held guns?
In the US there's what 200+ million* legally held firearms, won't the majority be semi-automatic/automatic given the recent decades of consumerisation of weapons? So couldn't it be as high as 100-150 million ??
I don't see it happening, anything that takes a category of firearms that covers a million plus particular weapons, is going to cause such a special interest political shit storm that the legislation won't get passed.
On a side issue, is it possible for Americans in some states to own M2s, Miniguns (XM-whatever) ?
I'd anything containing a principally explosive warhead, even something from a M79 would be illegal
* figure plucked out of the air.
No explosive warheads. No full auto without a federal licence.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 08:01:47 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2015, 07:50:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic/automatic hand guns, machine pistols, etc. should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
No grandfathered or exemptions whatsoever.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns, that fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
Interesting 11B4V.
By on the streets do you mean out just the total number of guns or does it refer to illegally held guns?
In the US there's what 200+ million* legally held firearms, won't the majority be semi-automatic/automatic given the recent decades of consumerisation of weapons? So couldn't it be as high as 100-150 million ??
I don't see it happening, anything that takes a category of firearms that covers a million plus particular weapons, is going to cause such a special interest political shit storm that the legislation won't get passed.
On a side issue, is it possible for Americans in some states to own M2s, Miniguns (XM-whatever) ?
I'd anything containing a principally explosive warhead, even something from a M79 would be illegal
* figure plucked out of the air.
No explosive warheads. No full auto without a federal licence.
Thanks.
You see demo videos on the web and it's not clear if that guy firing a 50cal is doing something special or not.
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2015, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 08:01:47 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2015, 07:50:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic/automatic hand guns, machine pistols, etc. should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
No grandfathered or exemptions whatsoever.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns, that fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
Interesting 11B4V.
By on the streets do you mean out just the total number of guns or does it refer to illegally held guns?
In the US there's what 200+ million* legally held firearms, won't the majority be semi-automatic/automatic given the recent decades of consumerisation of weapons? So couldn't it be as high as 100-150 million ??
I don't see it happening, anything that takes a category of firearms that covers a million plus particular weapons, is going to cause such a special interest political shit storm that the legislation won't get passed.
On a side issue, is it possible for Americans in some states to own M2s, Miniguns (XM-whatever) ?
I'd anything containing a principally explosive warhead, even something from a M79 would be illegal
* figure plucked out of the air.
No explosive warheads. No full auto without a federal licence.
Thanks.
You see demo videos on the web and it's not clear if that guy firing a 50cal is doing something special or not.
The firearms dealer has a licence, and as long as they are there in possession of the weapon, they can let others shoot it on full auto. Like at Knobs Creek. Look up that for fun.
You can buy semi auto .30 and .50 cal machine guns. Not that thrilling, FYI.
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2015, 07:34:57 PM
At the same time, start up a media campaign to counter the "ZOMG GUNS ARE SO COOL!" attitude that pervades American society. This is probably not a direct government thing.
Ah, a good old propaganda campaign.
I have no problem with gun ownership, even for the semi-auto rifles.
But I think there is nothing wrong at all with regulation requiring permits and registration for any/all types of firearms. Nothing against the 2nd amendment in taking that step...hell, it even says that "militia" (which gun nuts would say is also "the people") should be "well regulated". Of course, the gun-rights lobby are against even that.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2015, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 08:01:47 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2015, 07:50:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The big hurdle is how to collect the guns that are out there on the street depending on the strictest of the laws passed. It's easy write something to ban certain guns, implementation is the hard part.
I believe any rifle, carbine, shotgun, etc based on an automatic or semi automatic action should be banned. That takes care of magazine capacity too.
Semi automatic/automatic hand guns, machine pistols, etc. should be banned as well. Again takes care of the mag capacity as well.
No grandfathered or exemptions whatsoever.
This is what I think should happen. How many guns, that fit the above, are out on the street? Tens of millions.
Interesting 11B4V.
By on the streets do you mean out just the total number of guns or does it refer to illegally held guns?
In the US there's what 200+ million* legally held firearms, won't the majority be semi-automatic/automatic given the recent decades of consumerisation of weapons? So couldn't it be as high as 100-150 million ??
I don't see it happening, anything that takes a category of firearms that covers a million plus particular weapons, is going to cause such a special interest political shit storm that the legislation won't get passed.
On a side issue, is it possible for Americans in some states to own M2s, Miniguns (XM-whatever) ?
I'd anything containing a principally explosive warhead, even something from a M79 would be illegal
* figure plucked out of the air.
No explosive warheads. No full auto without a federal licence.
Thanks.
You see demo videos on the web and it's not clear if that guy firing a 50cal is doing something special or not.
The firearms dealer has a licence, and as long as they are there in possession of the weapon, they can let others shoot it on full auto. Like at Knobs Creek. Look up that for fun.
You can buy semi auto .30 and .50 cal machine guns. Not that thrilling, FYI.
No automatic guns whatsoever. No reason for them in the context we are talking.
well just ruin Knob Creek for me then, meanie. :blurgh:
There is no reason for the average civilian knob to own, for self-defense, target practice a semi automatic handgun, rifle, carbine, or shotgun.
I can defend myself just as easily with a s&w model 19 as I can my glock 20. My double barrel 12 games opposed to a benelli sa shotgun.
And I don't realistically need an assault rifle for home defense, shooting a fmj bullet at 2700-3200 feet per second that will go through multiple walls of my house.
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 05, 2015, 08:33:25 PM
I have no problem with gun ownership, even for the semi-auto rifles.
But I think there is nothing wrong at all with regulation requiring permits and registration for any/all types of firearms. Nothing against the 2nd amendment in taking that step...hell, it even says that "militia" (which gun nuts would say is also "the people") should be "well regulated". Of course, the gun-rights lobby are against even that.
I interpret that as meaning the National Guard
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:00:59 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 05, 2015, 08:33:25 PM
I have no problem with gun ownership, even for the semi-auto rifles.
But I think there is nothing wrong at all with regulation requiring permits and registration for any/all types of firearms. Nothing against the 2nd amendment in taking that step...hell, it even says that "militia" (which gun nuts would say is also "the people") should be "well regulated". Of course, the gun-rights lobby are against even that.
I interpret that as meaning the National Guard
In todays context sure.
I imagine that in the parlance of the time, those two clauses referred to the militia that the state would call up (to kill British, natives, Canadians, etc...), and the fact that the state wasn't going to be responsible for supplying their muskets, so they had to let everyone own them.
Gun ownership nowadays is mostly just our tradition. But as I said, I am all for letting people own whatever gun they want, even it means shooting AK-47s at a range. But I think it's just as fine to make you get a license, background check, gun safety knowledge test, colonoscopy, etc.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:00:36 PM
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
After your Kursk crack, you are not welcome at this year's Waffen SS Christmas pot lock. :P
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:00:36 PM
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
After your Kursk, crack you are not welcome at this year's Waffen SS Christmas pot lock. :P
:cry:
After seeing the video of the terrorist throat slashing in London today, I'm reminded of this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.t-nation.com%2Fforum_images%2F3%2F4%2F34116-1803.jpg&hash=d3d98afe9072784a6ee7739163b1ed69926a07a2)
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:00:36 PM
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
After your Kursk, crack you are not welcome at this year's Waffen SS Christmas pot lock. :P
:cry:
Gott mit uns
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:00:36 PM
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
After your Kursk, crack you are not welcome at this year's Waffen SS Christmas pot lock. :P
:cry:
Gott mit uns
Hitler likes my potato salad.
Bormann approves
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:40:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:00:36 PM
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
After your Kursk, crack you are not welcome at this year's Waffen SS Christmas pot lock. :P
:cry:
Gott mit uns
Hitler likes my potato salad.
Bormann approves
Goering wanted pie.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 05, 2015, 10:09:42 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:40:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2015, 09:00:36 PM
What a buzzkill. You don't get a Chritmas card. :mad:
After your Kursk, crack you are not welcome at this year's Waffen SS Christmas pot lock. :P
:cry:
Gott mit uns
Hitler likes my potato salad.
Bormann approves
Goering wanted pie.
Morphine Apple pie.
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 03, 2015, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 03, 2015, 05:10:13 PM
The axis of ... ? ;)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say...
I can't think of three posters who normally have less in common. :D
You wrong.
We have a lot in common.
I am a foreigner, Marti likes foreigners, and Derspiess is married to a foreigner.
What the hell?
11B4V wants to take our guns?
What kind of infantryman are you?
I am starting to suspect you are a pog trying to pass for a grunt.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 05, 2015, 09:14:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2015, 09:00:59 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 05, 2015, 08:33:25 PM
I have no problem with gun ownership, even for the semi-auto rifles.
But I think there is nothing wrong at all with regulation requiring permits and registration for any/all types of firearms. Nothing against the 2nd amendment in taking that step...hell, it even says that "militia" (which gun nuts would say is also "the people") should be "well regulated". Of course, the gun-rights lobby are against even that.
I interpret that as meaning the National Guard
In todays context sure.
I imagine that in the parlance of the time, those two clauses referred to the militia that the state would call up (to kill British, natives, Canadians, etc...), and the fact that the state wasn't going to be responsible for supplying their muskets, so they had to let everyone own them.
Gun ownership nowadays is mostly just our tradition. But as I said, I am all for letting people own whatever gun they want, even it means shooting AK-47s at a range. But I think it's just as fine to make you get a license, background check, gun safety knowledge test, colonoscopy, etc.
I'm in general agreement with this. I have no problem with requiring all firearms to be registered, or with background checks, etc.
Quote from: Siege on December 05, 2015, 11:01:24 PM
What the hell?
11B4V wants to take our guns?
What kind of infantryman are you?
I am starting to suspect you are a pog trying to pass for a grunt.
I don't think he wants to take guns away from infantrymen.
Quote from: Valmy on December 05, 2015, 11:39:05 PM
Quote from: Siege on December 05, 2015, 11:01:24 PM
What the hell?
11B4V wants to take our guns?
What kind of infantryman are you?
I am starting to suspect you are a pog trying to pass for a grunt.
I don't think he wants to take guns away from infantrymen.
Yea and arm them with wiffle ball bats.
:P
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2015, 08:25:24 PM
Seedy, dust off your snub nosed six shooter from the closet. This is only the beginning.
Meh, I am substantially more concerned about Vietnamese nail technicians crossing lanes while they text than the occasional mooselimb mental patient.
Meanwhile...
QuoteJerry Falwell Jr.: If more good people had concealed guns, 'we could end those Muslims'
by Sarah Pulliam Bailey
The Washington Post
The president of Liberty University, a popular pilgrimage site for presidential candidates, urged students during the school's convocation Friday to get their permits to carry concealed weapons.
In his remarks, President Jerry Falwell Jr., son of the late religious right leader Jerry Falwell Sr., pressed students at the Christian school in Lynchburg, Va., to carry weapons on campus following Wednesday's mass shooting in San Bernardino, Calif.
"It just blows my mind that the president of the United States [says] that the answer to circumstances like that is more gun control," he said to applause.
"If some of those people in that community center had what I have in my back pocket right now ...," he said while being interrupted by louder cheers and clapping. "Is it illegal to pull it out? I don't know," he said, chuckling.
"I've always thought that if more good people had concealed-carry permits, then we could end those Muslims before they walked in," he says, the rest of his sentence drowned out by loud applause while he said, "and killed them."
"I just wanted to take this opportunity to encourage all of you to get your permit. We offer a free course," he said. "Let's teach them a lesson if they ever show up here."
Falwell told The Washington Post on Saturday that he has had a concealed-carry permit for about a year, but decided for the first time Friday to carry a .25 pistol because of the attacks in San Bernardino on Wednesday. Falwell said he has had several shotguns, rifles and pistols on his farm for several years but is new to carrying a concealed weapon and needs to find a holster for his pistol. :lol:
Falwell said that when he referred to "those Muslims," he was referring to Islamic terrorists, specifically those behind the attacks in Paris and in San Bernardino. "That's the only thing I would clarify," Falwell said. "If I had to say what I said again, I'd say exactly the same thing."
A spokesman for Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) sent the following statement on Saturday:
"My administration is committed to making Virginia an open and welcoming Commonwealth, while also ensuring the safety of all of our citizens. Mr. Falwell's rash and repugnant comments detract from both of those crucial goals," McAuliffe said. "Those of us in leadership positions, whether in government or education, must take care to remember the tremendous harm that can result from reckless words."
Liberty University's convocation service, held three times a week in a 12,000-seat sports arena, is mandatory for the schools' students who live on campus and is also watched by thousands of its 95,000 online students.
Falwell said his comments have generated the most positive comments he has ever received for remarks made during convocation. "The support here on campus is almost universal," he said. Students of all faiths can attend Liberty, and Falwell estimated that about 15 to 20 students on campus are Muslim.
Some theologians believe that Jesus would call on Christians to put down their weapons in the face of violence. In response, Falwell referenced the story from the gospels of Jesus chasing money changers out of the temple with a whip.
"Jesus said 'Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's,' and part of that was to go to war, protecting whatever nation was under control of the king," Falwell said. "I wouldn't agree with any interpretation of Scripture that was used to say that a man or a woman shouldn't protect their families."
Virginia residents who are at least 21 years old may apply for a concealed weapons permit once they have completed training that satisfies state requirements. Residents must be at least 18 to purchase a shotgun or rifle and 21 to purchase a handgun.
Falwell noted the 2007 shootings at Virginia Tech, the deadliest mass shooting by a single gunman in U.S. history.
"I always wonder, what if one of those professors and students had a concealed weapon and could've ended what happened and saved countless lives?" Falwell said. "I don't understand why it's controversial for law-abiding citizens protecting themselves under the Second Amendment."
Falwell said the overwhelming support he has received from students comes from the frustration that they don't feel represented in the national conversation about gun violence.
"I think they're so tired of being told they're the problem because they have guns and because America is a country that has gun ownership," he said. "They don't hear anybody saying what they believe so when someone finally says something like I did yesterday, they were just hungry to hear it."
Falwell retweeted several tweets praising his remarks, including one that said "SUCK IT, Muslim extremists," with a link to the weapons course Liberty offers. :lol:
In April 2013, Liberty's board of trustees approved a policy allowing students and faculty members with permits to carry concealed weapons on campus, except in residence halls. In November 2013, a 19-year-old Liberty student was shot and killed at an off-campus women's dormitory when the student attacked a campus police officer with a hammer.
Falwell's remarks to the students on Friday took place after former Republican Sen. Jim DeMint (S.C.), president of the Heritage Foundation, spoke.
Liberty prides itself on being the largest private, nonprofit university in the country, the largest university in Virginia and the largest Christian university in the world. The school has become a pilgrimage destination for Republican candidates (and Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders) seeking to build bridges to conservative Christian voters.
Most of the university's dramatic growth has come through distance education and also from an expansion in federal aid. Two decades ago, Liberty students received less than $20 million in federal aid, but its students now receive more than $800 million a year in such aid.
Most major religious groups favor stricter gun-control laws, including black Protestants (76 percent), Catholics (67 percent) and white mainline Protestants (57 percent), according to a 2013 Public Religion Research Institute survey. But white evangelicals are the religious group least likely to support stricter laws (38 percent favor them while 59 percent oppose them).
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 01:08:49 PM
Well I disagree. I think removing tools that people can use does cut down on the extent to which a suicide actually takes place. I doubt said person is going to suddenly go - hey hanging might be a fun way.
This begs the question that suicide is, itself, intrinsically bad.
I actually do not think that suicide is in itself necessarily bad.
I do think that the vast majority of people who commit suicide do so for "bad" reasons, and as a society we should in fact takes reasonable steps to avoid most of them.
By limiting freedoms of the sane majority who is not going to kill themselves? I disagree. In isolation (i.e. if guns could only be used to commit suicide) this argument is no different than banning drugs, or cigarettes, or booze or unhealthy food.
Quote from: mongers on December 04, 2015, 05:04:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 04, 2015, 04:20:56 PM
....
Sorry for constantly bringing their posts here, but I need this place to vent. :P
It's not just you, I think we could do with a internet meme/social media venting mega thread; something along the lines. "Stupid shit my family/friends post, so I'll Rolleyes about it here, because I can't rip into them elsewhere"
I second that. I'd start with people calling Amy Schumer "brave" for posing naked while fat.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2015, 05:23:43 PM
Languish doesn't want it it be terrorism
Since when? Who doesn't want it to be terrorism? I thought most of us have been seeing it as terrorism from early on.
Quote from: sbr on December 04, 2015, 09:05:22 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVRCFgaUwAEk03l.jpg:large)
The weirdest part about this is that many people who are sharing this sentiment today were posting "Pray for Paris" few weeks ago. Either prayers work or they don't - make up your fucking mind.
Prayers may not work for America because America has turned away from God. France has not.
Quote from: The Brain on December 06, 2015, 04:06:30 AM
Prayers may not work for America because America has turned away from God. France has not.
:lol:
Also, while I agree that gun control discussion has a place, it is silly after this particular case, as it was terrorism. France has probably much stricter gun control laws than America, yet it did not stop Islamists from killing a lot of people with guns few weeks ago - so using this attack to argue for gun control is pretty dishonest.
Quote from: Martinus on December 06, 2015, 04:09:57 AM
Also, while I agree that gun control discussion has a place, it is silly after this particular case, as it was terrorism. France has probably much stricter gun control laws than America, yet it did not stop Islamists from killing a lot of people with guns few weeks ago - so using this attack to argue for gun control is pretty dishonest.
These guns were bought legally from what I've heard. You need a larger criminal network to secure guns illegally something these people might not have done so easily so the discussion is stil warranted.
Quote from: Martinus on December 06, 2015, 04:08:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 06, 2015, 04:06:30 AM
Prayers may not work for America because America has turned away from God. France has not.
:lol:
QuoteFrench Military Enrollment Triples After Paris Terror Attacks
by Alastair Jamieson
The number of young French people hoping to join the military has tripled in the wake of the country's terror attacks, according to official figures.
Recruiters are dealing with an average 1,500 applications a day compared to 500 a day before the Nov. 13 massacre in Paris that killed 130 people, Reuters reported.
Visits to air force recruitment offices have also tripled and requests for information are 20 times higher, according to figures on the military's website.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/french-military-enrollment-triples-after-paris-terror-attacks-n474781
:frog: :frog: :frog:
Quote from: Martinus on December 06, 2015, 03:53:22 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 04, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2015, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 04, 2015, 01:08:49 PM
Well I disagree. I think removing tools that people can use does cut down on the extent to which a suicide actually takes place. I doubt said person is going to suddenly go - hey hanging might be a fun way.
This begs the question that suicide is, itself, intrinsically bad.
I actually do not think that suicide is in itself necessarily bad.
I do think that the vast majority of people who commit suicide do so for "bad" reasons, and as a society we should in fact takes reasonable steps to avoid most of them.
By limiting freedoms of the sane majority who is not going to kill themselves? I disagree. In isolation (i.e. if guns could only be used to commit suicide) this argument is no different than banning drugs, or cigarettes, or booze or unhealthy food.
Who said anything about banning anything?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2015, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 06, 2015, 04:08:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 06, 2015, 04:06:30 AM
Prayers may not work for America because America has turned away from God. France has not.
:lol:
QuoteFrench Military Enrollment Triples After Paris Terror Attacks
by Alastair Jamieson
The number of young French people hoping to join the military has tripled in the wake of the country's terror attacks, according to official figures.
Recruiters are dealing with an average 1,500 applications a day compared to 500 a day before the Nov. 13 massacre in Paris that killed 130 people, Reuters reported.
Visits to air force recruitment offices have also tripled and requests for information are 20 times higher, according to figures on the military's website.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/french-military-enrollment-triples-after-paris-terror-attacks-n474781
:frog: :frog: :frog:
My English direct report tried to say something about being against the UK bombing Syria. My french counterpart and I shut her down. ^_^
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 05, 2015, 07:49:12 PM
I was well aware of the lengths the gun lobby has gone to to etc. etc. What I was totally unaware of was the current laws that allow clearly deranged people to get concealed carry permits.
"Shall issue" states are states in which authorities cannot deny concealed carry permits to clearly deranged people, unless such people have been adjudicated as mentally defective by a court.
Quote from: Martinus on December 06, 2015, 04:09:57 AM
Also, while I agree that gun control discussion has a place, it is silly after this particular case, as it was terrorism. France has probably much stricter gun control laws than America, yet it did not stop Islamists from killing a lot of people with guns few weeks ago - so using this attack to argue for gun control is pretty dishonest.
How is it materially different then if it was a pair of non-Muslim maniacs who perpetrated the attack?
:hmm:
Somehow I managed to live in the 3 states where shall issue has continued to remain the law of the land.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif)
Quote from: garbon on December 06, 2015, 03:09:38 PM
:hmm:
Somehow I managed to live in the 3 states where shall issue has continued to remain the law of the land.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif)
How do you feel about the gun laws in England and Wales?
Quote from: garbon on December 06, 2015, 03:09:38 PM
:hmm:
Somehow I managed to live in the 3 states where shall issue has continued to remain the law of the land.
I believe you mean "may issue."
September issue?
Yes that is what I meant. -_-
Quote from: garbon on December 06, 2015, 03:09:38 PM
:hmm:
Somehow I managed to live in the 3 states where shall issue has continued to remain the law of the land.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif)
Interesting. I still carry the concealed permit even though I don't have to.
I like the way you phrased that.
I like the open carry nuts people, let them be the first targets. ;)
Regarding the process to get a concealed permit, in some states you have to jump endless hoops, take classes in a state range and pay an arm and a leg to get one. I truly believe if a person really needs to have a conceal carry, they should jump all those hoops and get the classes etc., they are not denying their citizens their 2nd amendment rights.
In Alabama you send a one page questionnaire to to the County Sheriff office with your $20 per year (up to 5 years at a time) and it comes in the mail the next week after the extensive background check. :lol:
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 06, 2015, 06:11:13 PM
In Alabama you send a one page questionnaire to to the County Sheriff office with your $20 per year (up to 5 years at a time) and it comes in the mail the next week after the extensive background check. :lol:
What kinds of questions?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/00/23/08/002308ddb98c2a904acfcf70b3a90c9b.jpg)
Pretty sure that's never been in the September issue.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 06, 2015, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 06, 2015, 06:11:13 PM
In Alabama you send a one page questionnaire to to the County Sheriff office with your $20 per year (up to 5 years at a time) and it comes in the mail the next week after the extensive background check. :lol:
What kinds of questions?
http://www.shelbyso.com/page.php?p=permits
ID info, address and stuff, employer, contacts. Then a bunch of ever been convicted of... questions or committed in psychiatric hospital.
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 06, 2015, 07:10:19 PM
ID info, address and stuff, employer, contacts. Then a bunch of ever been convicted of... questions or committed in psychiatric hospital.
Bah.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 06, 2015, 04:47:51 PM
Interesting. I still carry the concealed permit even though I don't have to.
Sometimes I use mine to get frost of the window.
The prezdizzle better announce that B-52's are carpet bombing something.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 06, 2015, 07:17:07 PM
The prezdizzle better announce that B-52's are carpet bombing something.
I know he wants to "reassure Americans about U.S. efforts to combat terrorism after attacks at home and abroad have Americans questioning their safety", despite bombing ISIS every day, but that's not going to matter until somebody white with a real American name is back in the White House.
Speech: bleh.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2015, 07:15:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 06, 2015, 04:47:51 PM
Interesting. I still carry the concealed permit even though I don't have to.
Sometimes I use mine to get frost of the window.
Does very good if heavily laminated.
What's with the house with the busted up garage and windows, that's related to the killers?
I didn't hear as my tv station feed went down for a few seconds.
Quote from: mongers on December 06, 2015, 08:34:09 PM
What's with the house with the busted up garage and windows, that's related to the killers?
I didn't hear as my tv station feed went down for a few seconds.
They raided the dude's house that bought the AR-15's.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 06, 2015, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 06, 2015, 08:34:09 PM
What's with the house with the busted up garage and windows, that's related to the killers?
I didn't hear as my tv station feed went down for a few seconds.
They raided the dude's house that bought the AR-15's.
Oh thanks for that.
So the main weapons weren't bought directly by them. :hmm:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2015, 08:03:43 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 06, 2015, 07:17:07 PM
The prezdizzle better announce that B-52's are carpet bombing something.
I know he wants to "reassure Americans about U.S. efforts to combat terrorism after attacks at home and abroad have Americans questioning their safety", despite bombing ISIS every day, but that's not going to matter until somebody white with a real American name is back in the White House.
Well, I don't know about you but I feel safer.
Quote from: derspiess on December 06, 2015, 08:38:02 PM
Well, I don't know about you but I feel safer.
I had never felt any less safer before. But then I'm not afraid of minorities, either.
No, not at all.
Quote from: The Brain on December 06, 2015, 04:06:30 AM
Prayers may not work for America because America has turned away from God. France has not.
The Cult of the Supreme Being protects the people -_-
Quote from: derspiess on December 06, 2015, 08:38:02 PM
Well, I don't know about you but I feel safer.
Typical Republican - it's all about their feelings.
Finally, someone with a plan! :rolleyes:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-after-san-bernardino-terrorists-here-time-start-fighting-survival
Quote'It's About Surviving': Judge Jeanine Says U.S. Must 'Stop Pussyfooting' in Terror Fight
On last night's "Justice," Judge Jeanine Pirro said the country needs to "stop pussyfooting" in its fight against Islamic terror, which she said comes down to our survival.
Pirro said that in the wake of the deadliest terror attack on U.S. soil since 9/11, every American needs to make a plan for how they're going to protect themselves and their families.
"This is not about politics," she said. "It's about being safe. It's about surviving."
As part of her five-point plan, Pirro called for a full-scale closure of U.S. borders and halting of the visa program.
"I don't care if it's a business visa or a vacation visa, an education visa, a fiancée visa, a ninety-day visa. Stop. These people do not have a right to be here," Pirro said.
She also criticized President Obama and his Administration for being overly protective of Muslims and their religion, while being ready to "denigrate all gun owners and take away our rights based on the actions of a few."
"If we are stopped from saying something against Mohammed, the Muslim religion, or Muslims in general, then Sharia law is already here," she said.
The single deadliest terror attack on U.S. soil since 9/11 has happened. They're here and it's time to stop pussy footing around, time to stop this 'politically incorrect' nonsense worrying about other people's feelings, pull out all the stops and start fighting for the survival of this country and our way of life.
You need to make a plan; how you're going to protect yourself, your family, and your kids.
This is not about politics. It's about being safe. It's about surviving.
The plan:
Number one. Get a gun. Buy one legally. Learn how to shoot. And be primed to use it. I don't care if you get a long gun, a handgun, a revolver, a semi-automatic. Get whatever gun you can handle. And don't let anyone talk you out of it. The Second Amendment to the Constitution and the United States Supreme Court confirm your right to have one.
Number two. It is time to weaponize your local police. They are the first line of defense in this Islamic terrorist war against us. If you watched the San Bernardino attack unfold, you understand these jihadists were not going to stop with that one attack. The local police are the ones who took down these Islamic terrorists and stopped a further massacre. Your local police, like the cops in San Bernardino. Three hundred of them running toward the danger openly stating, "I'll take the first bullet." These are your defenders. These remarkable men and women in blue are our heroes who don't think twice about taking a bullet for you.
Number three. We need to close the borders. From Mexico and from Canada. Pure and simple. Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik have set the precedent by showing the world it can be done on American soil. There needs to be a halt to the issuance of visas. I don't care if it's a business visa or a vacation visa, an education visa, a fiance visa, a ninety day visa. Stop. These people do not have a right to be here. Period. End of story.
Number four. We must stop the refugee resettlement program immediately. I don't want to hear that it's not who we are. I know who we are. We are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian ethics. I don't need anyone to tell me that I have to take in somebody because they want to change the political demographics. Need I remind anyone that we don't have the ability to vet them and even when we do, we don't know what the hell we're doing. Example. the Tsarnaev brothers. The Boston bombers. We gave the family political asylum and they thanked us by killing, dismembering and blinding innocent Americans.
Number five. Get ready to give up some privacy. The metadata collection that was going on has been stopped. If that program were still in place, the feds could have taken the cellphones of those terrorist animals and immediately connected them to their contacts.
Arm yourself with knowledge. In order to confront the enemy you must know who the enemy is. Since our commander-in-chief won't even call them what they are --Islamic terrorists-- but instead prefers to preach what Islam is and isn't and that we shouldn't denigrate all Muslims based on the actions of a few, while he is willing to denigrate all gun owners and take away our rights based on the actions of a few.
You need to recognize the danger. Talk to your neighbors. Create organizations to stay current on questionable behavior not just in your community but around the country.
We're told to say something when we see something, but don't say anything against people who act suspiciously who happen to be Muslim because that would be Islamophobic. Farook and Malik's neighbors said nothing when they saw something because they were fearful of being called Islamophobes or racially profiling. That's the plan folks--to shut us up.
When our own attorney general, Loretta Lynch, trumpets her greatest fear is that anti-Muslim rhetoric will lead to violence against Muslims the day before the FBI calls the massacre of 14 Americans a terrorist act we've got a problem.
I'm here to tell you it's part of the Islamic terrorists' plan. If we are stopped from saying something against Mohammed, the Muslim religion, or Muslims in general, then Sharia law is already here.
We are living in a dangerous time. The jackals are at the door.
And that's my open.
Where does Fox find these nutjobs? :huh:
Quote from: Syt on December 07, 2015, 02:55:43 AM
In order to confront the enemy you must know who the enemy is.
Indeed.
QuoteShe also criticized President Obama and his Administration for being overly protective of Muslims and their religion, while being ready to "denigrate all gun owners and take away our rights based on the actions of a few."
Is there anything more amusing than how completely oblivious people can be to the things they say?
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 06, 2015, 08:14:28 PM
Speech: bleh.
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
No guns for people on the no fly list, fine again, I'm ok with that. But that won't work and wouldn't have prevented this attack nor likely most terror attacks or gun crimes. Terrorists will get the guns, like they did in France, and explosives like they did here. Even the ACLU complains about the no fly list as being too broad and inaccurate. We have Congress members and members of Home
boy land Security on it. Duh... Begs the question though of why are people who are legitimately on the list even in the country? If they're so dangerous as to be denied boarding an airliner, just how bad are they and why are they running free?
WTF was up with the FBI and cops allowing the home of the terrorists of San Bernadino to be opened to the public? They say they have everything but that was only after a day or two of perusing the place. What if they have to go back when they find out more info during their investigation, which will take a long time as they investigate other people and connections.
Then the lawyers for the terrorists made a long TV appearance. They were a couple of lamers, making excuses, finding blame where ever. But of course they'll do that for their clients but they were mainly just disingenuous to the point of pissing off people.
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
The no fly list has been hated ever since it was first invented. Nobody knows how somebody gets on it and it is almost impossible to get off it.
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/673687588591439873
Ted cruz has a plan too:
CRUZ: IF I AM ELECTED PRESIDENT, I WILL DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO DESTROY ISIS
WTF. Why didn't we think of that before???
Quote from: sbr on December 07, 2015, 12:50:19 PM
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/673687588591439873
Ted cruz has a plan too:
CRUZ: IF I AM ELECTED PRESIDENT, I WILL DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO DESTROY ISIS
:lol:
You need superhuman cunning to come up with a plan like that.
When I am made coach of the US National Team I will tell my players to beat Germany.
"I will have a DoD contractor build a Destroy ISIS button, and I WILL PRESS IT".
The contractor's budget will be.............ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
Quote from: Valmy on December 07, 2015, 12:46:18 PM
The no fly list has been hated ever since it was first invented. Nobody knows how somebody gets on it and it is almost impossible to get off it.
I fume every time I hear "no-fly list" and "we cannot allow terrorists to make us compromise our values" in the same sentence.
Quote from: sbr on December 07, 2015, 12:50:19 PM
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/673687588591439873
Ted cruz has a plan too:
CRUZ: IF I AM ELECTED PRESIDENT, I WILL DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO DESTROY ISIS
Probably a very bad idea to make this a US/Western war. What is needed are ground troops but most of them need to be Muslim troops. This is mostly their war, a huge threat to them and their governments and way of life. The US/West probably needs to provide support and maybe a small ground force but invading ISIS has to be seen as a Muslim endeavor. If the US/West takes on the biggest part then it rallies ISIS minded types to the cause. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the Gulf states are all Sunni and if some of them could be willing to take this on then that's what's needed. Those nations taking this on is like herding a bunch of cats but maybe a few of them are willing but would need assistance.
I wonder too if this would greatly annoy Shia Iran? Several Muslim states banding together like that, even if it is to fight a common enemy. After all, Iraq doesn't want the US there, or any foreign troops as they're a partially owned subsidiary of Iran now and Iran is calling at least some of the shots. Heh, part of the mess in the Mid East is the Sunni vs Shia animosity.
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:45:11 PM
WTF was up with the FBI and cops allowing the home of the terrorists of San Bernadino to be opened to the public? They say they have everything but that was only after a day or two of perusing the place. What if they have to go back when they find out more info during their investigation, which will take a long time as they investigate other people and connections.
Only after a couple of days? Some roadies found a leg which belonged to a terrorist in the Bataclan 15 days after the attack. Guess the police was not interested enough. :hmm:
Belonged to a suicide bomber to be precise, so not exactly comparable to San Bernardino.
http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/la-jambe-d-un-kamikaze-du-bataclan-retrouvee-15-jours-apres-l-attentat-02-12-2015-1986527_23.php (http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/la-jambe-d-un-kamikaze-du-bataclan-retrouvee-15-jours-apres-l-attentat-02-12-2015-1986527_23.php)
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 07, 2015, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:45:11 PM
WTF was up with the FBI and cops allowing the home of the terrorists of San Bernadino to be opened to the public? They say they have everything but that was only after a day or two of perusing the place. What if they have to go back when they find out more info during their investigation, which will take a long time as they investigate other people and connections.
Only after a couple of days? Some roadies found a leg which belonged to a terrorist in the Bataclan 15 days after the attack. Guess the police was not interested enough. :hmm:
Belonged to a suicide bomber to be precise, so not exactly comparable to San Bernardino.
http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/la-jambe-d-un-kamikaze-du-bataclan-retrouvee-15-jours-apres-l-attentat-02-12-2015-1986527_23.php (http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/la-jambe-d-un-kamikaze-du-bataclan-retrouvee-15-jours-apres-l-attentat-02-12-2015-1986527_23.php)
Yes, even news outlets who visited the house were shocked at the idea, but of course they went there anyway.
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
If even you can't think of meaningless platitudes that could be said, then how can you expect Obama to come up with them?
Quote from: DGuller on December 07, 2015, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
If even you can't think of meaningless platitudes that could be said, then how can you expect Obama to come up with them?
I gave examples of areas of concern to authorities as examples and places to start which are items discussed by officials. I'm sure there's more that law enforcement and Homeboy Security can come up with.
So one terrorist attack of small magnitude is all it takes to decide that the anti-terrorist policy is not working, and that we should act rashly for a change?
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2015, 12:51:06 PM
WTF. Why didn't we think of that before???
Yeah, that could mean the DoD would be allowed to also do offence. :hmm:
The latest coming out that I'm hearing today. Father and mother were divorced. The father was interviewed by an Italian news paper. He said he knew his son was becoming extreme. Used to argue with him about it, to keep calm, work and enjoy family and forget all the anger. It doen't seem he had an idea of what his son was up to though.
The mother seems to be the radical of the family, just like with the Marathon bombers the Tsarnaevs. She belongs to some radical groups in Pakistan. She may have known but at the least she was likely coaching her kid.
The wife was also from a radical Pakistani family. She had lied to officials when applying for a Visa for marriage during vetting. She and the mother were likely the main instigators. The son was more of a mother's boy, according to his dad, so probably became radicalized by his wife and mother.
Quote from: DGuller on December 07, 2015, 01:34:47 PM
So one terrorist attack of small magnitude is all it takes to decide that the anti-terrorist policy is not working, and that we should act rashly for a change?
There hve been a lot more going on with arrests, broken up plots, some of those being major plots. Like a plot to attack NYC not too long ago. And actual attacks like this one, one in Chattanooga recruitment office, Boston Marathon and smaller attacks. More people being arrested lately who claim allegiance to ISIS. Over a thousand active cases being monitored by the FBI in all fifty states.
I've always been a mortal foe of doing something just so you can be seen as doing something *cough* Syrian Free Army *cough* but I don't see the point of a nationwide address by the president to announce he's not going to do much different.
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
On my phone so can't get too deep, but you mention social media. Do you think the president should tell companies to limit the speech of American citizens?
Quote from: DGuller on December 07, 2015, 01:34:47 PM
So one terrorist attack of small magnitude is all it takes to decide that the anti-terrorist policy is not working, and that we should act rashly for a change?
Following the attacks in Paris, there was a nice piece where the FBI was complaining they knew of thousand of radicals in the US and could not do anything about it until they striked.
They can't prevent them from buying a gun, they can't seize their guns if they have one, they can't arrest them because it's not a crime to wish for American deaths or cheer everytime it happens, they can't put 24/24 surveillance on them, they can't raid the Mosque they are radicalized in, they basically are just left waiting for the inevitable to happen.
Quote from: sbr on December 07, 2015, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
On my phone so can't get too deep, but you mention social media. Do you think the president should tell companies to limit the speech of American citizens?
The issue was that the President's speech was nothing new where people were expecting more after the latest attack. Suggesting that maybe obstructing ISIS/AQ there could be expanded, nothing about having to curtail rights or something. All our governments are already trying to combat them there.
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
So two people shoot and kill 14 people and we need a to upend our terrorism strategy. Three years ago one guy shoots and kills 20 people and nothing should happen?
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
If this is the best ISIS can do because of the work the federal government is doing to stop these kinds of attacks, there really isn't anything different he needs to do - whatever he is doing is working wonderfully well.
The idea that there is ANYTHING a President could do to stop people already here from going out and getting a bunch of NRA protected assault rifles and shooting some place up is idiotic. From a policy standpoint, the only lever here to pull is making it harder for crazy people (whether they are motivated by religion, ideology, or anger at a missed promotion) from shooting a bunch of people is addressing the gun violence problem itself.
I agree with Berkut here. Unless the US radically changes its way of life (and that may not be all good), there is not much that can be done to prevent someone already in the country, even if suspected of radicalism, from legally buying a weapon and shooting lots of people.
Just because he's a pro-ISIS muslim does not change the fact that these kind of attacks happen every week in the US.
The biggest change the US could make, and could justify based on recent events, is a change to its attitude towards those who fund ISIS. Clearly, the husband and wife were being funded by someone to acquire all of that weaponry and explosive-making gear, so the US should go after anyone it thinks is funding ISIS or cooperating with ISIS regarding smuggling et al. If that pisses off some people*, good. The abettors of terrorism should be pissed off. All the time.
*Mostly Turks, but also Gulf Arabs and Saudis - all excellent targets for a pissing.
The obvious solution is to make it mandatory for every American citizen over the age of 18 to carry a gun at all times. Only way to have a chance to stop every mass shooting.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 02:23:22 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
So two people shoot and kill 14 people and we need a to upend our terrorism strategy. Three years ago one guy shoots and kills 20 people and nothing should happen?
Do you really think efforts have been going so well that the President couldn't have spoken about ramped up efforts in what was billed as a very important speech? As I said in another post, there have been a lot more than these two incidents! More attacks, like Boston Marathon bombing, recruiting station shooting, and other attacks. Many attacks foiled and more and more arrests made, FBI has too many cases to follow in the US, as I said before. Plus ISIS encouraging or sending people to the west to do attacks. Encouraging people to make attacks at home, no need to travel there. So yeah, the issue has really grown over the past year or so.
Well it doesn't really seem like yesterday's stabbing in the East London tube station was terrorism, much better categorised as a mental health originated attack, given what the family has described.
And the Met police have just confirmed concerned relatives phoned the police within the last few weeks because of their worries about his state of mind, seeing devils and other hallucinations. They were then directed towards the appropriate social service.
Interesting his brother, who seems to have be his major career reported much of his condition seems linked to sustained cannabis use.
Quote from: grumbler on December 07, 2015, 03:13:23 PM
The biggest change the US could make, and could justify based on recent events, is a change to its attitude towards those who fund ISIS. Clearly, the husband and wife were being funded by someone to acquire all of that weaponry and explosive-making gear, so the US should go after anyone it thinks is funding ISIS or cooperating with ISIS regarding smuggling et al. If that pisses off some people*, good. The abettors of terrorism should be pissed off. All the time.
*Mostly Turks, but also Gulf Arabs and Saudis - all excellent targets for a pissing.
You want us to attack a county health inspectors' office? :huh:
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 03:14:52 PM
Do you really think efforts have been going so well that the President couldn't have spoken about ramped up efforts in what was billed as a very important speech? As I said in another post, there have been a lot more than these two incidents! More attacks, like Boston Marathon bombing, recruiting station shooting, and other attacks. Many attacks foiled and more and more arrests made, FBI has too many cases to follow in the US, as I said before. Plus ISIS encouraging or sending people to the west to do attacks. Encouraging people to make attacks at home, no need to travel there. So yeah, the issue has really grown over the past year or so.
Depends on what the generic "ramped up efforts" actually means. The successful attacks were done by one or two people with no outside help. Those are pretty difficult to stop. If you have any ideas how to do that, please share them from the class. Now imagine for a moment that the attack was carried out by a husband and wife team with no religious or political motive (like the hundreds of attacks that have occurred this year) It would still be materially the same attack. Would you still demand "ramped up efforts"? If so how?
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 03:14:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 02:23:22 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
So two people shoot and kill 14 people and we need a to upend our terrorism strategy. Three years ago one guy shoots and kills 20 people and nothing should happen?
Do you really think efforts have been going so well that the President couldn't have spoken about ramped up efforts in what was billed as a very important speech? As I said in another post, there have been a lot more than these two incidents! More attacks, like Boston Marathon bombing, recruiting station shooting, and other attacks. Many attacks foiled and more and more arrests made, FBI has too many cases to follow in the US, as I said before. Plus ISIS encouraging or sending people to the west to do attacks. Encouraging people to make attacks at home, no need to travel there. So yeah, the issue has really grown over the past year or so.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2015, 02:25:43 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:40:17 PM
Agreed, lame. Same old stuff, nothing new about ISIS or going after terrorism. Fine that he talks about we shouldn't be going after Muslims in the US, but there really hasn't been any serious attacks on Muslims. He spent the most of it, some 30 percent, on guns and whatever else he doesn't like about what Americans are doing. Not enough on terrorism and nothing new.
And what "new stuff" should be said?
He's the President, he needs to figure out what will work. We were just hit with a terrorist attack and he goes on like his policy is working. For example, ISIS has been telling people that they don't have to come to the Mid East to join the fight, that they can make attacks where they are. Also social media, the propaganda war and other venues are likely places that can be beefed up. He could have talked about making changes there. Things like that for starters.
If this is the best ISIS can do because of the work the federal government is doing to stop these kinds of attacks, there really isn't anything different he needs to do - whatever he is doing is working wonderfully well.
Agree with this, though that also leads me to agree with Yi that there's not much point in making a major Presidential speech about it.
Ever since the shooting I have Christie's song stuck in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAAqAho_BsU
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:45:11 PM
Then the lawyers for the terrorists made a long TV appearance. They were a couple of lamers, making excuses, finding blame where ever. But of course they'll do that for their clients but they were mainly just disingenuous to the point of pissing off people.
Which terrorists are you talking about, because the two that attacked San Bernardino are dead and the dead usually don't get lawyers.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 08, 2015, 06:28:59 AM
Quote from: KRonn on December 07, 2015, 12:45:11 PM
Then the lawyers for the terrorists made a long TV appearance. They were a couple of lamers, making excuses, finding blame where ever. But of course they'll do that for their clients but they were mainly just disingenuous to the point of pissing off people.
Which terrorists are you talking about, because the two that attacked San Bernardino are dead and the dead usually don't get lawyers.
I think they're lawyers hired by some of the family.
Trying to watch my language these days, but what the fucking fuck??
http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-policy-blocks-agents-social-media-visa/story?id=35749325
Quote from: derspiess on December 14, 2015, 05:00:47 PM
Trying to watch my language these days, but what the fucking fuck??
http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-policy-blocks-agents-social-media-visa/story?id=35749325
Huh. So in order to prevent a backlash they did not reform a secret policy? Seems weird.
I have no idea where the balance is between safety and intrusiveness. But I know enough to know that there is one, and that saying "fucking fuck" instinctively isn't instrumental in judging whether you're on the right side. It's especially hard to hit that balance right because single-celled organisms and political opponents of the administration will go "fucking fuck" when it goes wrong one way, but when it goes wrong the other way it will be unobservable.
That web site has a bizarre set up.
I guess I am curious how the investigators would know which Tashfeen Malik was posting what, even if she used her real name and it was unique in the world. The story, as I see it, is that officials pressed for a change in policy, and a pilot program was set up to determine how useful and feasible such a change would be. I guess we should be outraged that the DHS didn't change the policy for her alone, even if they didn't change it for anyone else, because then, maybe, "some of those San Bernardino people would still be alive."
Anybody else think that Tashfeen in that picture (the one on abcnews.com) looks just like Brian's mother in Life of Brian?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.go.com%2Fimages%2FInternational%2Fht_malik_farook_airport_BUGGED_BG_lf_151206_31x13_1600.jpg&hash=533f9d14c04e141f6043728678b159b59ced0262)
She's not exactly a looker.
She's fly as fuck.
Which one is the woman?
Quote from: grumbler on December 14, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
I guess I am curious how the investigators would know which Tashfeen Malik was posting what, even if she used her real name and it was unique in the world.
I guess the moment she applies for citizenship or visa, they have her full name, birth certificate and picture. From doing further investigation, they will know her current employment and her school. With that, it should be relatively easy to perform a check on her social media pages.
The downside of course, is that it is entirely possible there would be more than one person with the same name originating from the same city or graduating from the same school accross various years and they could easily make mistakes and reject valid application.
Quote from: viper37 on December 14, 2015, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 14, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
I guess I am curious how the investigators would know which Tashfeen Malik was posting what, even if she used her real name and it was unique in the world.
I guess the moment she applies for citizenship or visa, they have her full name, birth certificate and picture. From doing further investigation, they will know her current employment and her school. With that, it should be relatively easy to perform a check on her social media pages.
I can thing of many social media accounts that don't even have my full name, let alone all of that information.
Quote from: DGuller on December 14, 2015, 05:09:23 PM
I have no idea where the balance is between safety and intrusiveness. But I know enough to know that there is one, and that saying "fucking fuck" instinctively isn't instrumental in judging whether you're on the right side. It's especially hard to hit that balance right because single-celled organisms and political opponents of the administration will go "fucking fuck" when it goes wrong one way, but when it goes wrong the other way it will be unobservable.
You need to get laid.
Quote from: garbon on December 14, 2015, 06:17:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 14, 2015, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 14, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
I guess I am curious how the investigators would know which Tashfeen Malik was posting what, even if she used her real name and it was unique in the world.
I guess the moment she applies for citizenship or visa, they have her full name, birth certificate and picture. From doing further investigation, they will know her current employment and her school. With that, it should be relatively easy to perform a check on her social media pages.
I can thing of many social media accounts that don't even have my full name, let alone all of that information.
I'd have to think the NSA or similar organization would be pretty good at cross-referencing people's real names with their twitter handles & whatnot. Maybe using IP address? Dunno.
Quote from: derspiess on December 14, 2015, 05:00:47 PM
Trying to watch my language these days, but what the fucking fuck??
http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-policy-blocks-agents-social-media-visa/story?id=35749325
Seems like a lot of scrambling about to CYA. Whatever protocols were in place at the time were presumably put in by Cohen so he is not exactly a disinterested observer.
I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone (yet). Just absolutely blows my mind that social media activity was specifically excluded from the review process.
Quote from: derspiess on December 14, 2015, 07:02:20 PM
I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone (yet). Just absolutely blows my mind that social media activity was specifically excluded from the review process.
Without having investigated it any further, I'd guess it's a bureaucratic thing as per grumbler... how do you make sure you have the right person, the right staff with the right training, the right procedures and so on? From what I understand of US bureaucracy, it generally is super check-box driven and big on verifiable, repeatable results from a procedure. It's not, I don't think, a matter of just letting random reviewers google names when they feel like it and running with the results. You need a clear, equitable plan for doing this sort of review in a way that meets all kind of program and legal standards.
That and how do you judge the content of someone's social media accurately as a process, assuming you ascertain the identity correctly? Is it a key-word based system? Is it a points based thing? Does someone posing with a gun increase their likelihood of being a security hazard in a way that makes sense? What if they post something in Arabic? What if something was sarcasm or an accidental repost?
I'm sure you can eventually design a program of social media review that achieves some policy objectives, but first you have to identify those policy objectives.
So yeah, I don't think it's as trivial as all that once you get down to the details.
Quote from: derspiess on December 14, 2015, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 14, 2015, 05:09:23 PM
I have no idea where the balance is between safety and intrusiveness. But I know enough to know that there is one, and that saying "fucking fuck" instinctively isn't instrumental in judging whether you're on the right side. It's especially hard to hit that balance right because single-celled organisms and political opponents of the administration will go "fucking fuck" when it goes wrong one way, but when it goes wrong the other way it will be unobservable.
You need to get laid.
I may have been unnecessarily harsh, but you just tripped a couple of pet peeves all at the same time. That attitude of immediately going "fucking fuck" before asking questions is why we go through rape scans at airports.
I don't know if a policy of trawling through someone's social media is reasonable or not, but you weren't even thinking of asking that question. And because of people with that mindset, no politician will go with reasonable security precautions when highly unreasonable precautions could've in retrospect prevented one terrorist act. Even if the unreasonable precautions result in damage equivalent to hundreds of terrorist acts quietly, under the news radar.
It's pretty standard in legal cases to check on social media where relevant (e.g.accident cases). A privacy rationale doesn't make much sense in this context. There may be other reasons already alluded to why social media wasn't being routinely checked but it does seem like an area one would expect would be checked out.
Quote from: grumbler on December 14, 2015, 05:37:52 PM
Anybody else think that Tashfeen in that picture (the one on abcnews.com) looks just like Brian's mother in Life of Brian?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.go.com%2Fimages%2FInternational%2Fht_malik_farook_airport_BUGGED_BG_lf_151206_31x13_1600.jpg&hash=533f9d14c04e141f6043728678b159b59ced0262)
Ill wait for Siege's judgement call. I will trust in the Sworn Enemy of Islam on this one.
Quote from: DGuller on December 14, 2015, 07:56:01 PM
Even if the unreasonable precautions result in damage equivalent to hundreds of terrorist acts quietly, under the news radar.
Each year airport body scanners kill 1,400 people. It's not widely reported though.
Quote from: derspiess on December 14, 2015, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 14, 2015, 05:09:23 PM
I have no idea where the balance is between safety and intrusiveness. But I know enough to know that there is one, and that saying "fucking fuck" instinctively isn't instrumental in judging whether you're on the right side. It's especially hard to hit that balance right because single-celled organisms and political opponents of the administration will go "fucking fuck" when it goes wrong one way, but when it goes wrong the other way it will be unobservable.
You need to get laid.
Blueberries have no vagina.
The friend who bought the guns is under arrest.