Obama's gonna take our guns! :o
QuotePRINCETON, NJ -- Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993, albeit marginally above the 44% and 45% highs seen during that period.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsas-origin.onstreammedia.com%2Forigin%2Fgallupinc%2FGallupSpaces%2FProduction%2FCms%2FPOLL%2Fsgcossbzcei5hhmpeq0ryq.gif&hash=2d514ab786ff1bba85aaa00e62eb4555cb9967c1)
The new result comes from Gallup's Oct. 6-9 Crime poll, which also finds public support for personal gun rights at a high-water mark (http://"http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/Record-Low-Favor-Handgun-Ban.aspx"). Given this, the latest increase in self-reported gun ownership could reflect a change in Americans' comfort with publicly stating that they have a gun as much as it reflects a real uptick in gun ownership.
Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) are more likely than Democrats (including Democratic leaners) to say they have a gun in their household: 55% to 40%. While sizable, this partisan gap is narrower than that seen in recent years, as Democrats' self-reported gun ownership spiked to 40% this year.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsas-origin.onstreammedia.com%2Forigin%2Fgallupinc%2FGallupSpaces%2FProduction%2FCms%2FPOLL%2Fn-k9vdg170sylv4thxvfsw.gif&hash=fc0eaac91ef13e9fb7d3aabb86271f8d854b1438)
The percentage of women who report household gun ownership is also at a new high, now registering 43%.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsas-origin.onstreammedia.com%2Forigin%2Fgallupinc%2FGallupSpaces%2FProduction%2FCms%2FPOLL%2F999z-mpdxusifn-unxc5pq.gif&hash=9f6ff3b6b56b4fcfa6f42d878e0cea97ea1f1f87)
Gun ownership is more common in the South (54%) and Midwest (51%) than in the East (36%) or West (43%) -- a finding typical of Gallup's trends in gun ownership by region.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsas-origin.onstreammedia.com%2Forigin%2Fgallupinc%2FGallupSpaces%2FProduction%2FCms%2FPOLL%2Fzvumamcapkcvqcxbn-xf4a.gif&hash=5617a2954580a395f208f0e21929839b7003dfee)
One in Three Americans Personally Own a Gun
Since 2000, Gallup has asked respondents with guns in their households a follow-up question to determine if the gun belongs to the respondent or to someone else. On this basis, Gallup finds that 34% of all Americans personally own a gun.
The gender gap in personal gun ownership is wider than that seen for household ownership, as 46% of all adult men vs. 23% of all women say they personally own a gun.
Middle-aged adults -- those 35 to 54 years of age -- and adults with no college education are more likely than their counterparts to be gun owners.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsas-origin.onstreammedia.com%2Forigin%2Fgallupinc%2FGallupSpaces%2FProduction%2FCms%2FPOLL%2Feuasirae5k68v5xwyqxerg.gif&hash=4f1b3481d91bc396e65b908a6034ab7b4b8e5957)
Bottom Line
A clear societal change took place regarding gun ownership in the early 1990s, when the percentage of Americans saying there was a gun in their home or on their property dropped from the low to mid-50s into the low to mid-40s and remained at that level for the next 15 years. Whether this reflected a true decline in gun ownership or a cultural shift in Americans' willingness to say they had guns is unclear. However, the new data suggest that attitudes may again be changing. At 47%, reported gun ownership is the highest it has been in nearly two decades -- a finding that may be related to Americans' dampened support for gun-control laws. However, to ensure that this year's increase reflects a meaningful rebound in reported gun ownership, it will be important to see whether the uptick continues in future polling.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx)
I've got a murder boner
Is this due to democrats being worried about republicans taking 2nd amendment remedies when Obama gets re-elected?
I am the 40%!
Quote from: Viking on October 27, 2011, 12:40:11 PM
Is this due to democrats being worried about republicans taking 2nd amendment remedies when Obama gets re-elected?
No, the jump is entirely due to Democratic politicians buying guns in order to prove that they're really loyal Americans, not some kind of commies.
Seriously, while Gallup is a pretty respectable polling organization, something is wrong with some of those numbers. Look at the bottom line on the last graph--gun ownership by region--for the last 3 years. No way did gun ownership in the East drop from 33% to 23% in just 1 year, then bounce back to 36% the next year.
So much violence.
I'm thinking of going out and buying another gun later today.
There has never been a gun in any residence i have ever lived in in my 41 years. :(
We had our Swiss friend over for dinner today (she made us raclette :mmm: ) and she brought over a bunch of her guns. I jammed the slide open on her Glock 26. :blush: We finally managed to get it to release though.
She loaned them to us to try on the range, so I temporarily have a Glock 19, a Glock 26, and a Taurus Millennium PT 132. Despite the Taurus being chambered for a weakass round (.32 ACP), I really like the feel of it. :hmm:
The Glock 26 is a nice conceal carry weapon.
Does my Arquebus replica count as a gun?
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2011, 09:25:38 PM
Does my Arquebus replica count as a gun?
Halt intruder! Stand still for 3 minutes!
:)
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
The Glock 26 is a nice conceal carry weapon.
Yeah, I'm sure that hers just needs to be lubricated. I've handled Glocks before (maybe not a 26 though, but it's just a 19 with a shorter barrel, it looks like) and they're usually not nearly so stiff. These guns haven't been fired in over three years.
Quote from: Caliga on November 20, 2011, 09:30:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
The Glock 26 is a nice conceal carry weapon.
Yeah, I'm sure that hers just needs to be lubricated. I've handled Glocks before (maybe not a 26 though, but it's just a 19 with a shorter barrel, it looks like) and they're usually not nearly so stiff. These guns haven't been fired in over three years.
Would you like to lubercate her? Nudge nudge, wink wink.
Not bad looking, but not really my type. She'd need implants, for one thing.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2011, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2011, 09:25:38 PM
Does my Arquebus replica count as a gun?
Halt intruder! Stand still for 3 minutes!
:)
Maybe it's a wheel lock? That way he can load it before hand.
Quote from: Caliga on November 20, 2011, 09:45:32 PM
Not bad looking, but not really my type. She'd need implants, for one thing.
Ah, itty bitty euro titties. :mmm:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 20, 2011, 09:46:07 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2011, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2011, 09:25:38 PM
Does my Arquebus replica count as a gun?
Halt intruder! Stand still for 3 minutes!
:)
Maybe it's a wheel lock? That way he can load it before hand.
Tim, you shoud buy this gun.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwaresphere.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F03%2Fback-fire-gun.jpg&hash=1bac612e51f72a7321acdc2118d9eaeef02537e9)
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
The Glock 26 is a nice conceal carry weapon.
Is this a picture of you?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_0F-11_yDYTI%2FTMFA5FhWYmI%2FAAAAAAAAAM4%2FJzB39qTJhHo%2Fs1600%2Fweird-guy-with-guns.jpg&hash=8a446288cd52868b8dd13b963bde79d5c69d06aa)
Martinus' gun:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbp0.blogger.com%2F_88oeleTBYyo%2FRxTD8SLBEgI%2FAAAAAAAABaY%2FIO9aI1FxdcI%2Fs400%2FBlog_Pink-HK-Gun_10-16-2007.jpg&hash=28c5c4f768d96e78aec0853fb1615e52690ad716)
Raz's gun:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv255%2Fphyscoredferret%2F63571__468x_weird-weapons-060.jpg&hash=bc0b41be7421e68b83d9049895c07ee31c1870d3)
My gun:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freynosawatch.org%2Fminstrel%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F02%2Flong-long-gun.jpg&hash=9e23145726f99eb4b34b7975348cbbc71bf20377)
Quote from: Siege on November 21, 2011, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 20, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
The Glock 26 is a nice conceal carry weapon.
Is this a picture of you?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_0F-11_yDYTI%2FTMFA5FhWYmI%2FAAAAAAAAAM4%2FJzB39qTJhHo%2Fs1600%2Fweird-guy-with-guns.jpg&hash=8a446288cd52868b8dd13b963bde79d5c69d06aa)
Guitar hero: :yuk:
Why the drop in early 90s?
V
Quote from: Valdemar on November 22, 2011, 08:14:58 AM
Why the drop in early 90s?
V
Probably because these statistics are total shit, and aren't scrubbed for bad or inconsistent data?
Quote from: DGuller on November 22, 2011, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on November 22, 2011, 08:14:58 AM
Why the drop in early 90s?
V
Probably because these statistics are total shit, and aren't scrubbed for bad or inconsistent data?
Polling data really isn't statistics.
Quote from: Siege on November 21, 2011, 10:49:46 PM
My gun:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freynosawatch.org%2Fminstrel%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F02%2Flong-long-gun.jpg&hash=9e23145726f99eb4b34b7975348cbbc71bf20377)
Your image doesn't work.
Quote from: dps on November 22, 2011, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 22, 2011, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on November 22, 2011, 08:14:58 AM
Why the drop in early 90s?
V
Probably because these statistics are total shit, and aren't scrubbed for bad or inconsistent data?
Polling data really isn't statistics.
:huh: What is it then?
Quote from: DGuller on November 22, 2011, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: dps on November 22, 2011, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 22, 2011, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on November 22, 2011, 08:14:58 AM
Why the drop in early 90s?
V
Probably because these statistics are total shit, and aren't scrubbed for bad or inconsistent data?
Polling data really isn't statistics.
:huh: What is it then?
I suck at math, but it seems to fit more in the realm of "Probability" to me.
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 22, 2011, 08:58:20 PM
I suck at math, but it seems to fit more in the realm of "Probability" to me.
That's what statistics is. You sample a population (for example conduct a survey), then you make inferences about the population based on the sample response.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 22, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 22, 2011, 08:58:20 PM
I suck at math, but it seems to fit more in the realm of "Probability" to me.
That's what statistics is. You sample a population (for example conduct a survey), then you make inferences about the population based on the sample response.
Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to say that they aren't "hard" stats. If you have motor vehicle registration from all 50 states and DC, then you can add it all up and you can say with confidence how many motor vehicles are registered in the U.S. If you scientifically poll a thousand US residents and ask them how many registed motor vehicle they own, you can infer how many registered motor vehicles are owned by individuals in the U.S., but it's an inference, not a certain number.
Quote from: dps on November 22, 2011, 09:47:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 22, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 22, 2011, 08:58:20 PM
I suck at math, but it seems to fit more in the realm of "Probability" to me.
That's what statistics is. You sample a population (for example conduct a survey), then you make inferences about the population based on the sample response.
Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to say that they aren't "hard" stats. If you have motor vehicle registration from all 50 states and DC, then you can add it all up and you can say with confidence how many motor vehicles are registered in the U.S. If you scientifically poll a thousand US residents and ask them how many registed motor vehicle they own, you can infer how many registered motor vehicles are owned by individuals in the U.S., but it's an inference, not a certain number.
Statistics is all about making inferences. Taking a census is not an exercise in statistics, it's an exercise in counting. The definition of a statistic is an estimator, which by definition implies lack of total information. Of course, in common use, we do sometimes refer to tabulated numbers as statistics, but that's not a technically correct use of the word.
Quote from: DGuller on November 23, 2011, 01:42:57 AM
Statistics is all about making inferences. Taking a census is not an exercise in statistics, it's an exercise in counting. The definition of a statistic is an estimator, which by definition implies lack of total information.
Precisely this.
It's two different uses of the same word. When you ask what Tebow's stats were last weekend you're not asking what about the sample mean and the 9%% confidence interval, you're asking how many passes he completed and how many rushing yards he had.
My Charisma is 18.
Quote from: The Brain on November 23, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
My Charisma is 18.
Charisma Carpenter is definitively older than 18!!!
Quote from: Siege on November 23, 2011, 05:12:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 23, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
My Charisma is 18.
Charisma Carpenter is definitively older than 18!!!
Didn't think you liked then that busty.
Is this another one of Siege's Disney kids?
I, on the other hand, would drill Charisma Carpenter like an Arab looking for oil.
Quote from: Siege on November 23, 2011, 05:12:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 23, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
My Charisma is 18.
Charisma Carpenter is definitively older than 18!!!
What makes you think that she's The Brain's?
Quote from: Caliga on November 23, 2011, 08:06:25 PM
I, on the other hand, would drill Charisma Carpenter like an Arab looking for oil.
You would use a mechanical device or ask someone else to do it while you watched?
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 24, 2011, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 23, 2011, 08:06:25 PM
I, on the other hand, would drill Charisma Carpenter like an Arab looking for oil.
You would use a mechanical device or ask someone else to do it while you watched?
:lol:
Perhaps a Fillipino, or a Palestinian.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2011, 06:26:31 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 21, 2011, 10:49:46 PM
My gun:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freynosawatch.org%2Fminstrel%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F02%2Flong-long-gun.jpg&hash=9e23145726f99eb4b34b7975348cbbc71bf20377)
Your image doesn't work.
Does his gun?
Apparently it does now. His wife is preggers.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F__KHoCLZ4cTo%2FTQachdgxEAI%2FAAAAAAAAAao%2FSgekMLavvz4%2Fs1600%2FDSC02754.JPG&hash=368bdc4f9d9f6b1f4966f74481388efa1908c98b)
Quote from: Jacob on November 24, 2011, 05:18:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2011, 06:26:31 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 21, 2011, 10:49:46 PM
My gun:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freynosawatch.org%2Fminstrel%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F02%2Flong-long-gun.jpg&hash=9e23145726f99eb4b34b7975348cbbc71bf20377)
Your image doesn't work.
Does his gun?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F01215%2Ftank-fire-again_1215635c.jpg&hash=b28913aec43dd6a9541c80f3a855378aef00b128)
You went from Infantry to Artillery?
Fuck no.
That was my Transformer M4 carabine.
Siege found the Holy Grail.
Does that mean he should convert?
Huh (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-12-01/gun-sales-up-black-friday/51554972/1)
Quote
Guns are a big seller on Black Friday
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON – In addition to the sleek flat-screen televisions, smartphones, computers and cut-rate designer clothing, Black Friday's shopping legions seized on another hot item for 2011: guns.
Gun dealers flooded the FBI with background check requests for prospective buyers last Friday, smashing the single-day, all-time high by 32%, according to bureau records.
Deputy Assistant FBI Director Jerry Pender said the checks, required by federal law, surged to 129,166 during the day, far surpassing the previous high of 97,848 on Black Friday of 2008.
The actual number of firearms sold last Friday is likely higher because multiple firearms can be included in a transaction by a single buyer. And the FBI does not track actual gun sales.
Some gun industry analysts attributed the unusual surge to a convergence of factors, including an increasing number of first-time buyers seeking firearms for protection and women who are being drawn to sport shooting and hunting.
Larry Keane, a spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said 25% of the purchases typically involve first-time buyers, many of them women.
"I think there also is a burgeoning awakening of the American public that they do have a constitutional right to own guns," Keane said.
Yet Keane said last Friday's number appeared to defy complete explanation. "It's really pretty amazing," he said.
Dennis Henigan, acting president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said he was "skeptical" of the Black Friday gun surge.
"I think there may be no real signifcance at all," Henigan said. "It's possible that gun companies are just catching on to creating a Black Friday frenzy for themselves."
Quote from: Siege on November 24, 2011, 08:06:51 PM
Fuck no.
That was my Transformer M4 carabine.
Do you have to get the artillery guys to fire your carbine when it transforms?
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 24, 2011, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 23, 2011, 08:06:25 PM
I, on the other hand, would drill Charisma Carpenter like an Arab looking for oil.
You would use a mechanical device or ask someone else to do it while you watched?
:lmfao:
Now I have to look up who this chick is.
The picture in IMDB is kinda creepy.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 24, 2011, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 23, 2011, 08:06:25 PM
I, on the other hand, would drill Charisma Carpenter like an Arab looking for oil.
You would use a mechanical device or ask someone else to do it while you watched?
It's a line I heard in a porno once. I didn't put much thought in to it before recycling it. :)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 02, 2011, 05:59:04 PM
Huh (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-12-01/gun-sales-up-black-friday/51554972/1)
Thanks for the reminder. I need to go to Wal-Mart tomorrow anyway to get a new tire, but I also need to pick up some 9mm and .32ACP ammo while I'm there. :cool:
I still need to pick up a SAIGA shotgun. For home 'defense'. :menace:
Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2011, 08:44:26 PM
Now I have to look up who this chick is.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mastcelebs.net%2Fupload%2FCharisma-Carpenter-7.jpg&hash=eae509a3e9b56f909db0ea227deff3b741235c9e)
boobs too big.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 09:12:54 PM
I still need to pick up a SAIGA shotgun. For home 'defense'. :menace:
You, my friend, need the Judge.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunblast.com%2Fimages%2FTaurus-Judge%2FDSC00272.jpg&hash=bf69c76a89054fde40d1150d0416d14d30f5d6e6)
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 09:13:51 PM
boobs too big.
They real? She's a little old for me anyway.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2011, 09:14:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 09:12:54 PM
I still need to pick up a SAIGA shotgun. For home 'defense'. :menace:
You, my friend, need the Judge.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunblast.com%2Fimages%2FTaurus-Judge%2FDSC00272.jpg&hash=bf69c76a89054fde40d1150d0416d14d30f5d6e6)
5 shots? Fuck that. Give me magazine fed Russian Spetnaz shotgun action.
Also, I hate fake titties. Feels like you are palming a basketball. Gimme the real titties ladies!
Just say no to implants*.
* obvious exception for medical use.
Being flat is a medical emergency. :hug:
Ok, I'm seriously pissed that the PT 132 didn't come with even one of those cheapo speedloader/thumb saver things that Glocks always come with. The mag is a BITCH to load.
Then get your bitch to load it.
I SEE VAG. ICANSEE FOREVER
ehh....nice picture and all but....can't we be keeping this forum worksafe please?
No girly photees....especially ones with naughty bits.
Stop browsing from Japan.
I don't think its a Japan thing, I'm sure most offices would disapprove.
I assume Most offices block the thing automagically.
But it was a play on the fact that Japan has major porn censorhip.
Even if the office blocks this, it might keep a log of such things. Really no need for these kinds of pics without a warning in the thread title.
Apologies, apologies, gents, I lost my head for a moment. No pun intended.
Do you niggas just use Hoppes No. 9 to lube your pistols? I use Hoppes 9 lube/solvent for my rifle and assume it'd be just as good for pistols.
Quote from: Caliga on December 05, 2011, 10:14:47 PM
Do you niggas just use Hoppes No. 9 to lube your pistols? I use Hoppes 9 lube/solvent for my rifle and assume it'd be just as good for pistols.
I use pork fat. My sepoys love it.
Quote from: Caliga on December 05, 2011, 10:14:47 PM
Do you niggas just use Hoppes No. 9 to lube your pistols? I use Hoppes 9 lube/solvent for my rifle and assume it'd be just as good for pistols.
I use RemOil. *shrug*
Quote from: Caliga on December 05, 2011, 10:14:47 PM
Do you niggas just use Hoppes No. 9 to lube your pistols? I use Hoppes 9 lube/solvent for my rifle and assume it'd be just as good for pistols.
Hoppes to clean the barrel and smell for ahwhile of course.
Rem Oil to lube inside and out when storing.
Normally when I'm out hunting the weapon is dry IOW no lube. Just a Lt coated patch through the barrel in the evening and a quick wipe with a silicone impreg cloth. In the morning before I go out, run a dry patch.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 05, 2011, 10:37:18 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 05, 2011, 10:14:47 PM
Do you niggas just use Hoppes No. 9 to lube your pistols? I use Hoppes 9 lube/solvent for my rifle and assume it'd be just as good for pistols.
I use pork fat. My sepoys love it.
I use crisco for my cap and ball pistols instead of a wad.
:hmm:
Anyone know anything about the FN FNX-9?
I went to Bill Goodman's Gun and Knife show this morning for a bit. All I know is DG would wet his pants in there.
Almost pulled the trigger on a sweet Saiga-12, but the shopkeeper didn't fall for my Jedi jew negotiation powers. I also came close to buying an SS Das Reich shirt, just for giggles.
I'm thinking of buying a gun. It is almost a necessary social grace in Utah.
Now I have a gun. I keep in close in case the Alogoi come and try to steal my memories.
Quote from: Jaron on December 10, 2011, 02:14:47 PM
I'm thinking of buying a gun. It is almost a necessary social grace in Utah.
If you have no real experience with guns, I hope you take a class first J-Dawg.
Just watch The Deer Hunter and do whatever Fredo Corleone does.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 10, 2011, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 10, 2011, 02:14:47 PM
I'm thinking of buying a gun. It is almost a necessary social grace in Utah.
If you have no real experience with guns, I hope you take a class first J-Dawg.
Yeah, I should do that.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 10, 2011, 02:13:55 PM
I went to Bill Goodman's Gun and Knife show this morning for a bit. All I know is DG would wet his pants in there.
Almost pulled the trigger on a sweet Saiga-12, but the shopkeeper didn't fall for my Jedi jew negotiation powers. I also came close to buying an SS Das Reich shirt, just for giggles.
:huh: I don't think I shared my pant-wetting experiences on Languish. :unsure:
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 10, 2011, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Jaron on December 10, 2011, 02:14:47 PM
I'm thinking of buying a gun. It is almost a necessary social grace in Utah.
If you have no real experience with guns, I hope you take a class first J-Dawg.
What's there to learn? I thought all you have to know is that before you fire, you take your safety off, look into the barrel to make sure the round is chambered, point, and fire?
Gun safety, gun maintenance, etc.
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2011, 05:24:54 PM
Gun safety, gun maintenance, etc.
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to learn how to properly clean, oil, and store a firearm.
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 08:56:33 AM
:hmm:
Anyone know anything about the FN FNX-9?
I have the Browning Pro-9. I dont know how simular it is to the FNX-9. It is an excellent pistol and the one I usually conceal carry. The Pro-9 is essentially the copy of the FNP-9.
There are some you tube reviews of the FNX.
Quote from: DGuller on December 10, 2011, 05:21:36 PM
What's there to learn? I thought all you have to know is that before you fire, you take your safety off, look into the barrel to make sure the round is chambered, point, and fire?
:lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 10, 2011, 06:02:51 PM
I have the Browning Pro-9. I dont know how simular it is to the FNX-9. It is an excellent pistol and the one I usually conceal carry. The Pro-9 is essentially the copy of the FNP-9.
There are some you tube reviews of the FNX.
Yeah, I've seen some, but inevitably they're by some guy who owns it and therefore thinks it's OSSUM. Good way to get an idea how big the gun is, etc. though.
I was looking at a couple of other guns in the same class earlier: Springfield XD(M) (really a Croatian import), CZ-85B, and the Ruger SR9c. Apparently Taurus has an interesting line now called the 24/7 I'll have to look in to. My father in law has a Bersa Thunder 380 for conceal carry, and it's really neat (clone of the PPK) but I want something in 9mm.
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 06:06:42 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 10, 2011, 06:02:51 PM
I have the Browning Pro-9. I dont know how simular it is to the FNX-9. It is an excellent pistol and the one I usually conceal carry. The Pro-9 is essentially the copy of the FNP-9.
There are some you tube reviews of the FNX.
Yeah, I've seen some, but inevitably they're by some guy who owns it and therefore thinks it's OSSUM. Good way to get an idea how big the gun is, etc. though.
I was looking at a couple of other guns in the same class earlier: Springfield XD(M) (really a Croatian import), CZ-85B, and the Ruger SR9c. Apparently Taurus has an interesting line now called the 24/7 I'll have to look in to. My father in law has a Bersa Thunder 380 for conceal carry, and it's really neat (clone of the PPK) but I want something in 9mm.
CZ is good quality. I own two rifles made by them in 7x64 and a 6.5x55 Swedish. Cant go wrong with CZ IMO.
I own the Bersa Thunder 380. Very workable and concealable.
What's the point of concealability?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:18:04 PM
What's the point of concealability?
For concealed carry. :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 06:18:31 PM
For concealed carry. :huh:
What are the negative repercussions if your concealed carry is less than perfectly concealed?
Your penis shrivels.
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 06:03:14 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 10, 2011, 05:21:36 PM
What's there to learn? I thought all you have to know is that before you fire, you take your safety off, look into the barrel to make sure the round is chambered, point, and fire?
:lol:
Too easy. :lmfao:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:20:11 PM
What are the negative repercussions if your concealed carry is less than perfectly concealed?
It's really more about comfort than actual concealment in a state like Kentucky that permits open carry.
Right now I've got a stripped Glock 26 sitting on my desk (I was actually about to clean it) and if you put it next to a Glock 19, there's a significant size difference. Although the 19 is "compact" (as compared to the 17), I don't think I would want to try to carry it concealed. OTOH, the 26 is definitely easily concealed, but too tiny for me to comfortably shoot. So, unless you're a midget it can be a bit of a challenge finding a gun you can comfortably shoot AND comfortably carry. The Bersa Thunder I'm sure I could easily carry concealed, but I've never shot, and also I don't want to have to keep around a bunch of different kinds of ammo.
Mr rikey the 26 for CC purposes. It replaced the PPK and .38 I had used before.
Are you gangsters strapped all the time, or are there certain places you carry and others you don't?
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 06:24:26 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:20:11 PM
What are the negative repercussions if your concealed carry is less than perfectly concealed?
It's really more about comfort than actual concealment in a state like Kentucky that permits open carry.
Right now I've got a stripped Glock 26 sitting on my desk (I was actually about to clean it) and if you put it next to a Glock 19, there's a significant size difference. Although the 19 is "compact" (as compared to the 17), I don't think I would want to try to carry it concealed. OTOH, the 26 is definitely easily concealed, but too tiny for me to comfortably shoot. So, unless you're a midget it can be a bit of a challenge finding a gun you can comfortably shoot AND comfortably carry. The Bersa Thunder I'm sure I could easily carry concealed, but I've never shot, and also I don't want to have to keep around a bunch of different kinds of ammo.
For sure. What Cal said.
Yi, there are all kinds of options out there.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Are you gangsters strapped all the time, or are there certain places you carry and others you don't?
Depends.
Yi, I don't have a Kentucky CCDW (yet), so I legally can't carry concealed at all. After I get a suitable piece (which started this subtopic of conversation) I'll apply for one. I doubt I'll carry most of the time though... generally I don't feel the need to.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Are you gangsters strapped all the time, or are there certain places you carry and others you don't?
Federal and state buildings, no.
Sign on the store door says no guns, then no.
Otherwise yes.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:18:04 PM
What's the point of concealability?
Not to draw attention to me. Esp. here in washington state.
I should get a My Little Pony themed rifle.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 10, 2011, 06:45:01 PM
I should get a My Little Pony themed rifle.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.thisnext.com%2Fmedia%2Flargest_dimension%2FC04097F6.jpg&hash=6f5e2e630c8237c8a753d9402a2e57b9d11e4114)
:lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on December 10, 2011, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:18:04 PM
What's the point of concealability?
Not to draw attention to me. Esp. here in washington state.
This.
Unless you live Alaska, carrying guns around tends to alarm people.
And even in Alaska, you don't often see people out and about with firearms in Anchorage. Of course, in Alaska, you don't even need a permit to carry concealed.
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
I don't even own a gun (yet).
I want to conceal mine so Marcin won't tackle me.
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
The seemingly premier gun range with rental guns in Charlotte repeatedly draws attention to the fact that they rent out automatics.
"BY THE WAY"
[Scarface gif]
"WE RENT FULL AUTOS!!!!!"
.... further down the main page....
"OH YEA, DID I MENTION......."
[gif of kitten firing a machine gun]
"WE RENT FULL AUTOS. "
.....
Please note: Full Auto's are not available for rental on Sunday.
:huh: "Thou shalt not rent out Full Auto's on the Lord's day. Thou shalt rent out only semiautomatic handguns and rifles to anyone with a driver's license and cash."
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 10, 2011, 06:33:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Are you gangsters strapped all the time, or are there certain places you carry and others you don't?
Federal and state buildings, no.
Sign on the store door says no guns, then no.
Otherwise yes.
How does that work? Is there a bloke at the door collecting your guns like at some sort of cyberpunk techno club?
Quote from: Tyr on December 11, 2011, 05:16:31 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 10, 2011, 06:33:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Are you gangsters strapped all the time, or are there certain places you carry and others you don't?
Federal and state buildings, no.
Sign on the store door says no guns, then no.
Otherwise yes.
How does that work? Is there a bloke at the door collecting your guns like at some sort of cyberpunk techno club?
Governmnet building? You're definately going through security*, but you had best not be carrying at that point.
Private building with a "No guns" sign of some sort? You're on the honor system.
*Well, federal building other that a post office, more-or-less. State government buildings will vary.
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Both me and the wife have been threatened by various stupid people.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2011, 08:07:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Both me and the wife have been threatened by various stupid people.
You need to pay your peasants more.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on December 11, 2011, 02:32:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
The seemingly premier gun range with rental guns in Charlotte repeatedly draws attention to the fact that they rent out automatics.
"BY THE WAY"
[Scarface gif]
"WE RENT FULL AUTOS!!!!!"
.... further down the main page....
"OH YEA, DID I MENTION......."
[gif of kitten firing a machine gun]
"WE RENT FULL AUTOS. "
.....
Please note: Full Auto's are not available for rental on Sunday.
:huh: "Thou shalt not rent out Full Auto's on the Lord's day. Thou shalt rent out only semiautomatic handguns and rifles to anyone with a driver's license and cash."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aazum9YhuU0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aazum9YhuU0) :cool:
hm, Beretta makes a compact in the price range I'm looking for: the Storm PX4. :hmm:
So it doesn't come as a surprise that gun-related crimes are rampant.
I'm a law-abiding citizen.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2011, 08:07:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Both me and the wife have been threatened by various stupid people.
I guess that's understandable seeing as how you live in Ohio. -_-
Quote from: Jaron on December 10, 2011, 10:52:46 PM
I want to conceal mine so Marcin won't tackle me.
Is he even allowed in the US?
I think Mart has a self-imposed ban on travel to the USA, because we hate gays or something. :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2011, 11:18:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2011, 08:07:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Both me and the wife have been threatened by various stupid people.
I guess that's understandable seeing as how you live in Ohio. -_-
:lol:
I also got threatened by a guy my father arrested decades ago in Kentucky. Awesome, a blood feud.
YOU LOOK LIKE THAT SONOFABITCH THAT PUT ME IN JAIL
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2011, 02:17:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2011, 11:18:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 11, 2011, 08:07:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Both me and the wife have been threatened by various stupid people.
I guess that's understandable seeing as how you live in Ohio. -_-
:lol:
I also got threatened by a guy my father arrested decades ago in Kentucky. Awesome, a blood feud.
YOU LOOK LIKE THAT SONOFABITCH THAT PUT ME IN JAIL
If you ever need an enforcer, send me a PM.
Quote from: Jaron on December 11, 2011, 02:25:17 PM
If you ever need an enforcer, send me a PM.
My Spatharios. :)
Your hard, pipe-hittin' Mexican.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imfdb.org%2Fw%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ffe%2FVlcsnap-415582.jpg%2F600px-Vlcsnap-415582.jpg&hash=5203ca8d71460d58cbc18805d5c6e21ceef6ca18)
Do you ever get the feeling that it's immoral to allow private citizens to own guns?
Quote from: Neil on December 11, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
Do you ever get the feeling that it's immoral to allow private citizens to own guns?
Nope
Quote from: 11B4V on December 11, 2011, 02:57:05 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 11, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
Do you ever get the feeling that it's immoral to allow private citizens to own guns?
Nope
Are you sure? If so, why?
Citizens should be allowed to have guns, to protect themselves against idiots who are allowed to have guns.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ftmt7E.jpg&hash=e476276559a43f127c32f18570ba6a9196aaf53b)
Quote from: DGuller on December 11, 2011, 03:06:48 PM
Citizens should be allowed to have guns, to protect themselves against idiots who are allowed to have guns.
Citizens I can see, but civilians should not.
Good call ED.. :D
Went to a local range to go shooting today, my buddy had his Glock 9mm, I rented out a 1911.
I guess I am not really into handguns....always been more of a rifle/shotgun man.
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Why aren't you?
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 11, 2011, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Why aren't you?
Maybe because his penis is large? Er, I assume that it is, that is. :unsure:
Quote from: hotshot on December 11, 2011, 09:31:22 AM
So it doesn't come as a surprise that gun-related crimes are rampant.
Not really. Gun crime is lower and lower every year.
Quote from: DGuller on December 11, 2011, 10:18:14 PMMaybe because his penis is large? Er, I assume that it is, that is. :unsure:
Thanks for proving your mastery of penises in public yet again, DGizz.
I've done many things in my life, but proving my mastery of penises in public is a step too far. :wacko:
Hey, to each his own. If thinking about guns gets you hot and thinking about dick, it wouldn't be the strangest fetish stated on this forum.
Quote from: DGuller on December 11, 2011, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 11, 2011, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
Why are you all carrying guns around? :unsure:
Why aren't you?
Maybe because his penis is large? Er, I assume that it is, that is. :unsure:
I thought we were done with that chapter. <_<
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 11, 2011, 09:46:09 PM
Went to a local range to go shooting today, my buddy had his Glock 9mm, I rented out a 1911.
I guess I am not really into handguns....always been more of a rifle/shotgun man.
The place I went to also had a couple M1 Garands for sale. Soooo tempting.
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 11, 2011, 10:19:03 PM
Quote from: hotshot on December 11, 2011, 09:31:22 AM
So it doesn't come as a surprise that gun-related crimes are rampant.
Not really. Gun crime is lower and lower every year.
That doesn't disprove what he said. Gun Crime is lower and lower from what year to what year?
Quote from: Razgovory on December 12, 2011, 01:23:47 AMThat doesn't disprove what he said. Gun Crime is lower and lower from what year to what year?
ramp·ant/ˈrampənt/
Adjective:
(esp. of something unpleasant) Flourishing or spreading unchecked: "rampant inflation".
(of a person or activity) Violent or unrestrained in action or performance
If it's going down, it isn't exactly unrestrained or spreading, is it, genius?
And most of the figures I see say it's at a nearly all-time low.
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/
The same phenomena is happening in Canada, our lesser-armed northern neighbour. Who knows what the true reasons for the dramatic decline are--I'm not a sociologist or a criminologist, so I can only take guesses--but it doesn't seem to have much to do with the fact that people are carrying guns or not carrying guns.
Quote from: garbon on December 11, 2011, 11:47:49 PMI don't really see the point.
That's cool. A lot of people don't want to for various reasons. I approve of your choice.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 12, 2011, 01:16:48 AMThe place I went to also had a couple M1 Garands for sale. Soooo tempting.
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm
Join your local shooting club (a list of approved clubs can be found on this site) and you can get Garands for relatively cheap. I got one as a gift from my uncle a few years back and I love it. I have a Korean War-era mix-and-match, but it still performs great. The "ping" from the en bloc clip flying out is always a delicious sound.
:( Lucky SOBs. I want to own a M1 Garand.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Are you gangsters strapped all the time, or are there certain places you carry and others you don't?
I have a walther ppk in my glove box
I have a shotgun in the house (my 13 year old son has one as well)
Ive got a browning high power in my night stand and when needed in my brief case
if i need to carry concealed i use the walther
i also have a colt 25 but im not sure that i could actually kill a person with it so its just a toy
Aren't you a Brit? I don't think we sold them to you guys, sadly. Even if we did, can you guys fire semi-autos at your local ranges/clubs larger than .22s? My knowledge of British gun laws isn't the best, but I seem to remember that basically everything is kept under lock and key at your local clubs and only small-caliber stuff is allowed.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:20:11 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 06:18:31 PM
For concealed carry. :huh:
What are the negative repercussions if your concealed carry is less than perfectly concealed?
in florida thats a crime
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2011, 09:14:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 09:12:54 PM
I still need to pick up a SAIGA shotgun. For home 'defense'. :menace:
You, my friend, need the Judge.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunblast.com%2Fimages%2FTaurus-Judge%2FDSC00272.jpg&hash=bf69c76a89054fde40d1150d0416d14d30f5d6e6)
nice
im going to try quail hunting with that!
Quote from: Rasputin on December 12, 2011, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 10, 2011, 06:20:11 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2011, 06:18:31 PM
For concealed carry. :huh:
What are the negative repercussions if your concealed carry is less than perfectly concealed?
in florida thats a crime
Yeah, in most states it's legal to open carry, but not South Carolina, Florida, Texas, and some others around the country. In Georgia, OC and CC are treated as identical; there is no legal distinction made between them.
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 12, 2011, 01:08:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 12, 2011, 01:23:47 AMThat doesn't disprove what he said. Gun Crime is lower and lower from what year to what year?
ramp·ant/ˈrampənt/
Adjective:
(esp. of something unpleasant) Flourishing or spreading unchecked: "rampant inflation".
(of a person or activity) Violent or unrestrained in action or performance
If it's going down, it isn't exactly unrestrained or spreading, is it, genius?
And most of the figures I see say it's at a nearly all-time low.
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/
The same phenomena is happening in Canada, our lesser-armed northern neighbour. Who knows what the true reasons for the dramatic decline are--I'm not a sociologist or a criminologist, so I can only take guesses--but it doesn't seem to have much to do with the fact that people are carrying guns or not carrying guns.
Rampant is simply a characterization. It may be rampant compared to another country.
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 12, 2011, 01:08:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 12, 2011, 01:23:47 AMThat doesn't disprove what he said. Gun Crime is lower and lower from what year to what year?
ramp·ant/ˈrampənt/
Adjective:
(esp. of something unpleasant) Flourishing or spreading unchecked: "rampant inflation".
(of a person or activity) Violent or unrestrained in action or performance
If it's going down, it isn't exactly unrestrained or spreading, is it, genius?
And most of the figures I see say it's at a nearly all-time low.
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/
The same phenomena is happening in Canada, our lesser-armed northern neighbour. Who knows what the true reasons for the dramatic decline are--I'm not a sociologist or a criminologist, so I can only take guesses--but it doesn't seem to have much to do with the fact that people are carrying guns or not carrying guns.
My hypothesis is socialization away from overt violence via education, by one of two mechanisms: directly affecting the propensity of people to commit violent acts by giving them more to (theoretically) lose or teaching them "coping" skills; or by removing them from environments where violence would be needed to solve problems, and feeding and housing potential violent offenders for the four years of their lives where violence would come most naturally, the late teens and early twenties; or by a combination of those mechanisms.
Also, more efficient policing and packing jails to the rafters hasn't hurt, in terms of rates of violence.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 12, 2011, 02:19:11 PMRampant is simply a characterization. It may be rampant compared to another country.
Then it's kind of a pointless characterization if it's going to be so vague and you're not naming a country to compare it with.
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 12, 2011, 01:54:54 PM
Yeah, in most states it's legal to open carry, but not South Carolina, Florida, Texas, and some others around the country. In Georgia, OC and CC are treated as identical; there is no legal distinction made between them.
:hmm: Meaning you can only openly carry if you have a conceal carry permit there?
Quote from: Rasputin on December 12, 2011, 01:51:05 PM
im going to try quail hunting with that!
Supposedy it's chambered to fire both .45 bullets and .410 shotshell.
Heh. Do they make those dragon flamethrower rounds in .410?
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 12, 2011, 06:22:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 12, 2011, 02:19:11 PMRampant is simply a characterization. It may be rampant compared to another country.
Then it's kind of a pointless characterization if it's going to be so vague and you're not naming a country to compare it with.
Perhaps, I think it's pointless to create a crime graph for the US that goes before 1700.
@MiM Dragon's Breath rounds you mean? I know they make them for twelve gauge, but I dunno if it's available in other gauges. AFAIK those rounds are basically flares. My father in law was going to buy one once just for kicks, but said the rounds are ridiculously expensive.
Yes. They're like six bucks each. It's more like a flamethrower. Doesn't go far, but lasts longer than you expect. And no "explosion" to work the action. (Which is good because you don't want a recoil with flames flying out the barrel. :P ) The one I shot I had to manually eject it.
Edit: Come to think of it, you don't want the thing ejecting while still spewing fire either. :lol:
Anyway, it looked impressive as hell.
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 12, 2011, 01:41:37 PM
:( Lucky SOBs. I want to own a M1 Garand.
In Quebec? Why do you hate women?
Quote from: Caliga on December 12, 2011, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 12, 2011, 01:54:54 PM
Yeah, in most states it's legal to open carry, but not South Carolina, Florida, Texas, and some others around the country. In Georgia, OC and CC are treated as identical; there is no legal distinction made between them.
:hmm: Meaning you can only openly carry if you have a conceal carry permit there?
Meaning there is no "conceal carry" permit--it's just a carry license, period. The license is called a Georgia Weapons License (used to be firearms license, which caused weird situations where you could get in trouble for carrying a knife but not the gun, but we changed that in 2010). The GWL lets you carry just about anything short of a grenade OC or CC--"concealed" or "open" carry is not even mentioned (rightfully so) in the legal code. It just says "carry."
To answer your question, yes. You can only OC or CC with the license. In a great deal of states, including Kenfucky, you can OC without a license.
Quote from: Caliga on December 12, 2011, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on December 12, 2011, 01:51:05 PM
im going to try quail hunting with that!
Supposedy it's chambered to fire both .45 bullets and .410 shotshell.
It is...but all the tests I've seen say the Judge is basically just a gimmick gun. It might be useful for home defense, but there are far better options for that and they're quite a lot less expensive.
Real shotguns are sexier anyway.
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 13, 2011, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 12, 2011, 07:39:29 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 12, 2011, 01:41:37 PM
:( Lucky SOBs. I want to own a M1 Garand.
In Quebec? Why do you hate women?
...wasn't that a Mini-14?
Doesn't matter. Quebec is trying to take the position that any guns owned by anyone is a crime against women.
Yes & It's fucking annoying.
I love women, especially my little girl :wub:
Quote from: Caliga on December 12, 2011, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 12, 2011, 01:54:54 PM
Yeah, in most states it's legal to open carry, but not South Carolina, Florida, Texas, and some others around the country. In Georgia, OC and CC are treated as identical; there is no legal distinction made between them.
:hmm: Meaning you can only openly carry if you have a conceal carry permit there?
no in florida openly carrying is illegal even for those with a permit
one may only exhibit the gun in public in the actual act of self defense
Open carry is perfectly legal here - for everyone, not just CCDW permit holders - and on occasion you do see people carrying. It's especially common to see it during hunting season. In fact, at the height of deer season when I go down to the Marathon for breakfast, half of the people in there are hunters with their sidearms holstered at their waist in plain view. I even saw a guy cleaning his rifle at his table once.
Mmm, Kentucky.
Quote from: Caliga on December 13, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
Open carry is perfectly legal here - for everyone, not just CCDW permit holders - and on occasion you do see people carrying. It's especially common to see it during hunting season. In fact, at the height of deer season when I go down to the Marathon for breakfast, half of the people in there are hunters with their sidearms holstered at their waist in plain view. I even saw a guy cleaning his rifle at his table once.
What kind of idiot hunts deer with a sidearm?
Quote from: dps on December 13, 2011, 09:06:04 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 13, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
Open carry is perfectly legal here - for everyone, not just CCDW permit holders - and on occasion you do see people carrying. It's especially common to see it during hunting season. In fact, at the height of deer season when I go down to the Marathon for breakfast, half of the people in there are hunters with their sidearms holstered at their waist in plain view. I even saw a guy cleaning his rifle at his table once.
What kind of idiot hunts deer with a sidearm?
An American idiot.
Quote from: dps on December 13, 2011, 09:06:04 PM
What kind of idiot hunts deer with a sidearm?
It's for finishing the deer off if necessary. :contract:
That said, there are people that hunt with pistols around here too.
There are such things as hunting handguns, you know. They often have scopes on them, have rather lengthy barrels, and fire particularly potent cartridges. It's not super common, but it's definitely a segment of the hunter culture. It's not like they're taking a pocket pistol out and hunting bears.
Quote from: JonasSalk on December 13, 2011, 10:10:22 PM
There are such things as hunting handguns, you know.
No, Jonas they dont. Neal and dps ignorance is hilarious to say the least.
Quote from: Caliga on December 13, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
Open carry is perfectly legal here - for everyone, not just CCDW permit holders - and on occasion you do see people carrying. It's especially common to see it during hunting season. In fact, at the height of deer season when I go down to the Marathon for breakfast, half of the people in there are hunters with their sidearms holstered at their waist in plain view. I even saw a guy cleaning his rifle at his table once.
Same around here in the smaller towns.
Quote from: Rasputin on December 12, 2011, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2011, 09:14:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 02, 2011, 09:12:54 PM
I still need to pick up a SAIGA shotgun. For home 'defense'. :menace:
You, my friend, need the Judge.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunblast.com%2Fimages%2FTaurus-Judge%2FDSC00272.jpg&hash=bf69c76a89054fde40d1150d0416d14d30f5d6e6)
nice
im going to try quail hunting with that!
The recoil must be neato.
I'll obviously need to test one out on a range first, but heavily leaning toward a Beretta PX4 Storm Compact now.
Quote from: Caliga on January 13, 2012, 09:07:53 PM
I'll obviously need to test one out on a range first, but heavily leaning toward a Beretta PX4 Storm Compact now.
Oh Cal,
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/08/15/beretta-nano/
Interesting. I don't really want a subcompact, but I do want (need) a fully ambi gun to suit my left-handedness. That's why I gave the Glock 19 to Princesca.
Quote from: Caliga on January 13, 2012, 10:41:54 PM
Interesting. I don't really want a subcompact, but I do want (need) a fully ambi gun to suit my left-handedness. That's why I gave the Glock 19 to Princesca.
PX-4 storm
5. Ambidextrous Safety (Type F): The ambidextrous safety lever, easily accessible by the thumb or a right or left handed shooter, is spring loaded so it's either positively "on" or "off". The safety lever also functions as the pistol's decocking lever. When pushed down, the rear part of the firing pin (striker) is rotated out of alignment with the front part of the firing pin. (NOTE: Type C does not have an external safety/decocking lever). Additional hammer drop catch (half cock notch) prevents striking of the firing pin unit in the remote chance of unintentional hammer drop.
8. Reversible Magazine Release: Multiple-sized, reversible magazine release buttons allow for customization to the individual's hand size. Small size comes standard on the gun, while medium and large buttons are available as accessories and easy replacement. Each size may be positioned for right-handed or left-handed use.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:23:56 AM
PX-4 storm
5. Ambidextrous Safety (Type F): The ambidextrous safety lever, easily accessible by the thumb or a right or left handed shooter, is spring loaded so it's either positively "on" or "off". The safety lever also functions as the pistol's decocking lever. When pushed down, the rear part of the firing pin (striker) is rotated out of alignment with the front part of the firing pin. (NOTE: Type C does not have an external safety/decocking lever). Additional hammer drop catch (half cock notch) prevents striking of the firing pin unit in the remote chance of unintentional hammer drop.
8. Reversible Magazine Release: Multiple-sized, reversible magazine release buttons allow for customization to the individual's hand size. Small size comes standard on the gun, while medium and large buttons are available as accessories and easy replacement. Each size may be positioned for right-handed or left-handed use.
Buddy of mine wants one of these in .45. Seems pretty slick.
FNP
All variations of the pistol include ambidextrous decocking levers and a reversible magazine release, as well as an integrated tactical accessory rail. In addition, the FNP-45 offers an ambidextrous slide release.
HK USP
By using a modular approach to the internal components,[4] the control functions of the USP can be switched from the left to the right side of the pistol for left-handed shooters. The USP can also be converted from one type of trigger/firing mode to another. This includes combination of double-action and single-action (DA/SA) modes and double-action only (DAO) modes.[3]
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 14, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:23:56 AM
PX-4 storm
5. Ambidextrous Safety (Type F): The ambidextrous safety lever, easily accessible by the thumb or a right or left handed shooter, is spring loaded so it's either positively "on" or "off". The safety lever also functions as the pistol's decocking lever. When pushed down, the rear part of the firing pin (striker) is rotated out of alignment with the front part of the firing pin. (NOTE: Type C does not have an external safety/decocking lever). Additional hammer drop catch (half cock notch) prevents striking of the firing pin unit in the remote chance of unintentional hammer drop.
8. Reversible Magazine Release: Multiple-sized, reversible magazine release buttons allow for customization to the individual's hand size. Small size comes standard on the gun, while medium and large buttons are available as accessories and easy replacement. Each size may be positioned for right-handed or left-handed use.
Buddy of mine wants one of these in .45. Seems pretty slick.
I havent heard anything bad on the PX. On the street anyway. Beretta firearms are usually of very good quality.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:31:56 AM
I havent heard anything bad on the PX. On the street anyway. Beretta firearms are usually of very good quality.
Only ones either of us have fired are the M9 and the 92FS or whatever the civilian version of the M9 is called. He's having a little trouble finding a Storm .45 he can actually try out. vOv
I dig my Sig, but it isn't ambidextrous aside from the mag release, I don't think. Decocker and such would be on the wrong side if it isn't.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 14, 2012, 01:36:43 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:31:56 AM
I havent heard anything bad on the PX. On the street anyway. Beretta firearms are usually of very good quality.
Only ones either of us have fired are the M9 and the 92FS or whatever the civilian version of the M9 is called. He's having a little trouble finding a Storm .45 he can actually try out. vOv
I dig my Sig, but it isn't ambidextrous aside from the mag release, I don't think. Decocker and such would be on the wrong side if it isn't.
Sig is a good weapon. I have a p220 .45
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:53:00 AM
Sig is a good weapon. I have a p220 .45
I ended up with a Pro 2022 9mm after the last gun show I attended. The thing puts whichever bullets you shove into it exactly where it's pointed over and over. Really can't ask for much more.
First day I shot it I was making smiley faces at the range. :lol:
Pulled the trigger (hee hee) on one of these babies today. I'll let you niggas know how it does once I pick it up (FFL) from the local dealer.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Fberetta-px4-compact-pistol%2F887_capture-010670_350p_300.jpg&hash=802fa155cfb9d0e032942c079c6ad5f5ac77ff1d)
Good choice and please do. :D
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:31:56 AM
I havent heard anything bad on the PX. On the street anyway. Beretta firearms are usually of very good quality.
Italian. They have to survive being dropped.
I think I'm in love.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 30, 2012, 12:33:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 14, 2012, 01:31:56 AM
I havent heard anything bad on the PX. On the street anyway. Beretta firearms are usually of very good quality.
Italian. They have to survive being dropped.
When I picked this up today the guy who owns the range made a joke about that too. It was something like "Beretta eh? Best gun to fire when walking backwards." :D
Quote from: Caliga on December 13, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
I even saw a guy cleaning his rifle at his table once.
In a restaurant? WTF?
No wonder you eat at gas stations.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 01, 2012, 09:25:56 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 13, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
I even saw a guy cleaning his rifle at his table once.
In a restaurant? WTF?
No wonder you eat at gas stations.
:lmfao:
:sleep:
I already swapped out the backstrap for a smaller one to accommodate my monstrous hands, but I'm having trouble swapping the mag release to the left side. It's weird how you have to do it on this gun; they want you to stick a drift-punch into a teeny little hole on the mag release button for some reason, and that releases the spring. My father in law showed me how to do it on his Smith & Wesson M&P and it looked way easier. :huh:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 01, 2012, 09:37:37 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 01, 2012, 08:19:20 PM
I think I'm in love.
I don't see a cylinder on that.
Cylinders :wub:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168211_1715176170440_1569276284_31725658_8371897_n.jpg)
I think I'm going to load the mags up as far as I can in order to loosen the springs up. I wonder if it'd be a good idea to leave the slide locked back for a while too? This is my first 'new' handgun... my SIG 522 was also new but it's a rifle so whole different ballgame.
Quote from: Caliga on February 01, 2012, 10:37:08 PM
I think I'm going to load the mags up as far as I can in order to loosen the springs up. I wonder if it'd be a good idea to leave the slide locked back for a while too? This is my first 'new' handgun... my SIG 522 was also new but it's a rifle so whole different ballgame.
Oil it up, take it to the range and run 200-300 rounds through it. That'll get it broke in. :) Dont worry about the mag springs.
My Colt M1991 .45, that I bought back in '94 has not had more than 100 rounds through it and it's still tight as hell.
My P-38 from 1944 still has the same CLIP from the war, and the spring is still good after all these years.
My .25 Raven Saturday night special has never been fired that I am aware of...
Quote from: Berkut on February 02, 2012, 04:19:25 PM
My .25 Raven Saturday night special has never been fired
Then how do you explain the kids? nyuk nyuk
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 02, 2012, 03:25:36 PM
My P-38 from 1944 still has the same CLIP from the war, and the spring is still good after all these years.
Habbakku is going to jump on your ass for saying "CLIP" instead of magazine.
I am? :unsure:
You or your brother. I mix you up occasionally. Sometimes it's hard to remember which one is the smart one.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 02, 2012, 08:56:50 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 02, 2012, 03:25:36 PM
My P-38 from 1944 still has the same CLIP from the war, and the spring is still good after all these years.
Habbakku is going to jump on your ass for saying "CLIP" instead of magazine.
That's why I capitalized it.
I need a "drift-punch" to switch the mag release on the Beretta from right handed to left handed.... whatever the fuck that is. :hmm:
If I get enough out of my Czech Vz.24 rifle, I may run down to a place near Cal's and pick up one of these:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcenterfiresystems.com%2Fproductimages%2Flong_guns%2FSAI-223-D.jpg&hash=4f6bbe16b11dd382a1678f27bed63a9912f77c73)
A semi-auto .223 rifle for just over $300. Plus since it's basically an AK with non-threatening stock/handguard, I can convert it to something cooler-looking later. And since it's actually made where AK's originated, I would think the workmanship will be a bit better than my Romanian SAR-1 (7.62x39mm AKM clone).
Place near Cal's = Bud's Gun Shop?
Quote from: Caliga on February 03, 2012, 12:56:48 PM
Place near Cal's = Bud's Gun Shop?
Why not.
"Hey, Bud...gimme a gun."
:sleep:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php)
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/want-to-see-the-worlds-biggest-caliber-rifle-in-action/
:showoff:
Holy shit :lol:
I think I pwned some n00bs in Unreal Tournament with one of those guns. :lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2012, 09:19:54 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/want-to-see-the-worlds-biggest-caliber-rifle-in-action/
:showoff:
:lol: That's awesome.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2012, 09:19:54 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/want-to-see-the-worlds-biggest-caliber-rifle-in-action/
:showoff:
I like the comments. Shit about the global elite, and chemtrails. :lol:
That gun fires a shell the around the size of what's on a Bradley I think.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2012, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2012, 09:19:54 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/want-to-see-the-worlds-biggest-caliber-rifle-in-action/
:showoff:
I like the comments. Shit about the global elite, and chemtrails. :lol:
That gun fires a shell the around the size of what's on a Bradley I think.
Chemtrail folk are hilarious.
Right up there with the shadow people people, yep.
Just got back from the range with the Beretta--Princesca brought the Glock 19 along (which is now 'officially' hers) and my father in law brought his Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm.
The Beretta's performance was a bit uneven but I think (hope) it's because it's brand new. It stovepiped after the very first shot, and maybe 20 rounds later it failed to feed once or twice. I fired a total of 60 rounds through it, and right before I emptied the last magazine it jammed again (not sure what you call this type of misfeed but basically it looked like it tried to pull two rounds into the chamber at once; I had to release the magazine and fish one of the rounds out of the ejector in order to clear the gun... fired fine after that. I have seen horror stories about this model misfeeding after every single shot, and definitely didn't experience that.
But man, it's a sweet gun to shoot. It has noticably less recoil than the Glock due to the rotary bolt, and because it's SA/DA it's got a very nice, light, short trigger pull I much prefer to the Glocks (the first round after you load a magazine is typically going to be DA, but I was manually cocking the hammer). I found it to be very accurate--I'm not the best shot (but I'm getting better!) and I put one round right through the exact center of the target at 7 meters and got about five more in the center roundel, and most of the rest of the shots in the one immediately outside that.... no wild shots at all. When I fire the Glock 19 I tend to shoot very low, but didn't have that problem at all with the Beretta.
I hope the feeding problems I experienced are due to me being too lazy to remove all the factory grease before I took it to the range. :blush: I just got done cleaning it and I cleaned all that shit out and reoiled... so hopefully that was the problem.
Anyway, I was happy enough with my results that I signed up for a CCDW class in two weeks. :cool:
Oh, and Princesca's Glock performed beautifully as always (never had a single misfeed/jam/etc. with that gun). My father in law's M&P kept jamming on him so he rented a Sig P229 from the range and fired that most of the time. :lol: I hate his M&P... the last time I fired it it jammed on me like that and he said I was limp wristing it. :rolleyes: But I guess he has to eat his words now.
What quality ammo did you use?
Wal-Mart Federal 115 grain FMJ :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on February 05, 2012, 04:23:34 PM
Wal-Mart Federal 115 grain FMJ :blush:
I've never had probs with Fedral. Even their rifle ammo is pretty consistent over a chronograph. Might be a bad batch. Have you tried the ammo in the glock?
Whether you got it at Wally World is irrelevent.
FYI: My Colt Govt .45 will not shoot wolf ammo for shit. A box is usually good for 3-4 stove pipes. I avoid Wolf ammo at all costs.
Oh... I'd not seen it at the gun store near me and since it's cheap I thought maybe they only carried it at Wal-Mart. :blush:
We used the same ammo in both the Glock and the Beretta, and like I said no problems whatsoever in the Glock.
Quote from: Caliga on February 05, 2012, 04:23:34 PM
Wal-Mart Federal 115 grain FMJ :blush:
They tend to be dirty. And have excess glue around the cartridge. Causes misfeeds for me in my 1911. the expensive stuff doesn't do that.
[cues Get Shorty diaologue about Wop nines]
I'm thinking about this for Internal Security:
http://www.oeoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=617
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oeoutfitters.com%2FProdImages%2FWSProdLG_mossberg54125.jpg&hash=72196a829b95e3f1bcae3e7da099fafe68bb07e1)
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 06, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
I'm thinking about this for Internal Security:
http://www.oeoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=617
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oeoutfitters.com%2FProdImages%2FWSProdLG_mossberg54125.jpg&hash=72196a829b95e3f1bcae3e7da099fafe68bb07e1)
It's curious how both the overall and barrel length are just a hair over what it would take to get that firearm prohibited in Canada. :hmm:
Quote from: 11B4V on February 06, 2012, 04:07:08 AM
FYI: My Colt Govt .45 will not shoot wolf ammo for shit. A box is usually good for 3-4 stove pipes. I avoid Wolf ammo at all costs.
Yeah Wolf 7.62 seems to cause a lot of stovepipes in my SKS as well, but that's the only gun I've ever fired it from. Seems very dirty.
I tend to use Remington UMC in my sig at the range until I run out, then go to whatever no-name blank white box shit they have stuffed under the counter. I've also used Federal in it a couple of times, but not a whole lot. No problems with any of it so far.
Quote from: Barrister on February 06, 2012, 05:27:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 06, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
I'm thinking about this for Internal Security:
http://www.oeoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=617
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oeoutfitters.com%2FProdImages%2FWSProdLG_mossberg54125.jpg&hash=72196a829b95e3f1bcae3e7da099fafe68bb07e1)
It's curious how both the overall and barrel length are just a hair over what it would take to get that firearm prohibited in Canada. :hmm:
I should get a double barrel and saw the barrels off.
Damn you all, now I want to play with guns after reading all this. :mad:
Quote from: Razgovory on February 02, 2012, 09:50:26 PM
You or your brother. I mix you up occasionally. Sometimes it's hard to remember which one is the smart one.
Hab has a brother on Languish?
Quote from: fahdiz on February 06, 2012, 07:06:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 02, 2012, 09:50:26 PM
You or your brother. I mix you up occasionally. Sometimes it's hard to remember which one is the smart one.
Hab has a brother on Languish?
Do a search for "magazine" and "clip". :P
I guess what I'm reading is that I shouldn't be concerned about my gun being a piece of crap, then? Good, cause like I said it's really nice to shoot. Also, it's beautiful compared to a Glock. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on February 06, 2012, 07:19:26 PM
I guess what I'm reading is that I shouldn't be concerned about my gun being a piece of crap, then? Good, cause like I said it's really nice to shoot. Also, it's beautiful compared to a Glock. :cool:
Not that that's difficult. Glocks are butt-ugly- upper receivers are pygmies compared to the lower receivers and grips. :P
Quote from: Caliga on February 06, 2012, 07:19:26 PM
I guess what I'm reading is that I shouldn't be concerned about my gun being a piece of crap, then? Good, cause like I said it's really nice to shoot. Also, it's beautiful compared to a Glock. :cool:
Not yet. Try some (quality) different ammo.
Quote from: Caliga on February 03, 2012, 12:56:48 PM
Place near Cal's = Bud's Gun Shop?
Oops, it's not that close to you. It's in Versailles (I love the local pronunciation btw)-- Centerfire Systems. It's still closer to you than it is to me, though.
Now if Bud had one of these actually "in stock" I'd consider stopping by.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.budsgunshop.com%2Fcatalog%2Fimages%2Fimagecache%2FRI1399B-X_sm.jpg&hash=70c5357132cb94254740465d0e1ce2c7f8a61fa9)
It's a Yugoslavian M53, which is a copy of the famous MG42, converted by Century International Arms to semi-auto. Bud has it listed in his catalog, but as out of stock. Same with all the Saiga rifles, unfortunately.
Quote from: Caliga on February 06, 2012, 06:07:34 AM
Oh... I'd not seen it at the gun store near me and since it's cheap I thought maybe they only carried it at Wal-Mart. :blush:
We used the same ammo in both the Glock and the Beretta, and like I said no problems whatsoever in the Glock.
Stands to reason. The Glock will eat anything you feed it, from cheap crap to expensive +P+ ammo.
But Federal isn't bad ammo IMO. Your Beretta should shoot any decent-quality brass-cased FMJ ammo just fine. Perhaps the gun needs to "break in" a bit? I'd definitely try some different ammo in any case. If it happens again, consider returning it & don't put it off for too long.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 06, 2012, 08:18:45 PM
Not that that's difficult. Glocks are butt-ugly- upper receivers are pygmies compared to the lower receivers and grips. :P
:mad: Noted.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 06, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
I'm thinking about this for Internal Security:
http://www.oeoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=617
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oeoutfitters.com%2FProdImages%2FWSProdLG_mossberg54125.jpg&hash=72196a829b95e3f1bcae3e7da099fafe68bb07e1)
As a rather persuasive gunshop owner was telling me once when I looked at one of those: "Drywall is cheap" :)
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 06, 2012, 06:14:44 PM
Yeah Wolf 7.62 seems to cause a lot of stovepipes in my SKS as well, but that's the only gun I've ever fired it from. Seems very dirty.
I've fired a lot of Wolf 7.62x39 in my AK and SKS's & never had a problem. Their 7.62x54R ammo is good as well, though I'm not a huge fan of lacquered steel cases. I shoot their 9x18mm stuff in my East German Makarov, but never bought their 9x19mm for my Glock 17 since there's usually brass, copper jacketed stuff available for the same price.
On the general topic of ammo, I haven't bought any ammo for quite a while but I've always been a fan of the Czech company Sellier & Bellot. They make ammo in just about any caliber imaginable and it's always been clean, reliable & dirt cheap.
I don't think Glocks are 'ugly', they just don't look as badass as a Beretta PX4. That said, the Glock 26 is very weird-looking to me because the handle has this weird slant to it. It's possible to make a subcompact conceal-carry gun that looks cool (examples include the Taurus Millenniums and the Bersa Thunder 380CC) but Glock failed on that miserably with the 26. I actually have a 26 sitting on my desk right now and not only does it look strange, but it kind of sucks to fire because the recoil (even chambered 9mm) is heavy due to the small size. It's also a bitch to field strip because the much smaller recoil spring likes to fly out right in my face, I guess because it's under more tension.
You know what is badass? My Walther PPK. I'M JAMES BOND, BITCHES!
Quote from: Caliga on February 07, 2012, 07:14:40 PM
I don't think Glocks are 'ugly', they just don't look as badass as a Beretta PX4. That said, the Glock 26 is very weird-looking to me because the handle has this weird slant to it. It's possible to make a subcompact conceal-carry gun that looks cool (examples include the Taurus Millenniums and the Bersa Thunder 380CC) but Glock failed on that miserably with the 26. I actually have a 26 sitting on my desk right now and not only does it look strange, but it kind of sucks to fire because the recoil (even chambered 9mm) is heavy due to the small size. It's also a bitch to field strip because the much smaller recoil spring likes to fly out right in my face, I guess because it's under more tension.
Yeah, like I said, it's a specific issue with me- the upper receiver just seems mismatched when compared to the rest of the gun. 1911's pretty much my gold standard for a handgun, aesthetically speaking.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 07, 2012, 07:52:30 PM
You know what is badass? My Walther PPK. I'M JAMES BOND, BITCHES!
The Bersa Thunder 380cc is basically a knockoff of the PPK. I was annoyed my father in law didn't bring it to the range last weekend. He said he was going to, but forgot (but I think he might have just been saying that).
I can also pretend to be Adolf Hitler with my PPK....wait a minute......
Scratch that.
Quote from: Caliga on February 07, 2012, 08:14:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 07, 2012, 07:52:30 PM
You know what is badass? My Walther PPK. I'M JAMES BOND, BITCHES!
The Bersa Thunder 380cc is basically a knockoff of the PPK.
I got one of those. Nice little pistol.
Quote from: Caliga on February 07, 2012, 08:14:02 PM
I was annoyed my father in law didn't bring it to the range last weekend. He said he was going to, but forgot (but I think he might have just been saying that).
It's starting to sound like he may be a dick. :hmm: :P Or at least a gun range dick.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 07, 2012, 08:17:03 PM
I got one of those. Nice little pistol.
Wikipedia says the Ecuadorian Air Force also issues them, so you'll be happy to know you're in good company. :lol:
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 07, 2012, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 07, 2012, 08:17:03 PM
I got one of those. Nice little pistol.
Wikipedia says the Ecuadorian Air Force also issues them, so you'll be happy to know you're in good company. :lol:
That is good.
Just reversed the mag release on the PX4. My gun is now offiically: left-handed. :cool:
The pin I used to reverse it got jammed in it though and I had to pull it out with pliers. :blush:
You're a hearty gunsmith.
I don't want to be around you when you shoot. Sounds like shit will explode in your hand.
:blush:
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2012, 10:33:38 AM
If I get enough out of my Czech Vz.24 rifle, I may run down to a place near Cal's and pick up one of these:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcenterfiresystems.com%2Fproductimages%2Flong_guns%2FSAI-223-D.jpg&hash=4f6bbe16b11dd382a1678f27bed63a9912f77c73)
A semi-auto .223 rifle for just over $300. Plus since it's basically an AK with non-threatening stock/handguard, I can convert it to something cooler-looking later. And since it's actually made where AK's originated, I would think the workmanship will be a bit better than my Romanian SAR-1 (7.62x39mm AKM clone).
Haven't sold my SAR1 yet, but I'm kicking around the idea of getting a Saiga in 5.45x39mm to convert into AK74 or AK102 configuration. Also noticed that prices have come way down on AR pattern rifles. The DPMS Panther Oracle looks awfully nice for $599. The only negative comments I've seen are from AR snobs who can't come up with anything objective.
Anyone here have an AR pattern rifle? It's been over 15 years since I shot one, but I love how they shoot & how they're put together. With the Saiga I'll have to do put in some elbow grease (not to mention drilling & possibly cutting) but with the Oracle I'd just need to add a red dot sight or whatever & I'd be good to go.
Here's the Oracle:
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I have a Ruger SR556. Here a little about it.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefirearmblog.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F05%2Fruger-ar-15-sr-556.png&hash=4c0f9132472f9390faabb7a2edcbb7b3cbbdf551)
That's so totally unnecessary.
What do you plan on breaching? Your beer fridge out in the garage?
QuoteWhat do you plan on breaching?
the chest cavity.
Dec 2012 just around the corner.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2012, 09:01:33 AM
That's so totally unnecessary.
What do you plan on breaching? Your beer fridge out in the garage?
In that configuration, it's perfectly okay. It's the Range Rambos with their foregrip, laser, flashlight, *and* scope attachments that need to answer that question. The foregrip on a semi-auto rifle is particularly confusing.
Personally, I just like the mechanics, functionality, low recoil, and accuracy of the AR system. It would complement the brutal simplicity of my M44 Mosin-Nagant firing heavy ball ammo :pinch:
Quote from: 11B4V on February 13, 2012, 07:27:47 PM
I have a Ruger SR556. Here a little about it.
It's out of my price range, but how do you like it?
Quote from: derspiess on February 14, 2012, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 13, 2012, 07:27:47 PM
I have a Ruger SR556. Here a little about it.
It's out of my price range, but how do you like it?
I like it. It is as you see it above. No lights, lasers or scopes. Dont need that shit. Kinda bummed it didnt have a bayonet lug. Havent had any problems with it. It's a gas piston as opposed to DI type system.
It was an impluse buy kinda like the CETME. I'm more of an appreciator of fine bolt actions.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 14, 2012, 10:34:13 PM
I like it. It is as you see it above. No lights, lasers or scopes. Dont need that shit. Kinda bummed it didnt have a bayonet lug. Havent had any problems with it. It's a gas piston as opposed to DI type system.
I noticed the SIG556 also has a gas piston. Does that make it easier to clean? I'd imagine the piston head collects a lot of the carbon residue that would otherwise collect on the bolt assembly.
QuoteIt was an impluse buy kinda like the CETME. I'm more of an appreciator of fine bolt actions.
I missed out on CETMEs while they were relatively cheap & plentiful. Most of my collection (what is left of it anyway) is milsurp bolt action rifles. Not the higher end stuff, but I have a Yugo M48 that I bought in brand new, unissued condition and a nicely made 1944-dated Finn M39.
Most interesting one I have is a Russian M91/30 1943-dated rifle that has very rough machining marks on the receiver. I'm guessing it was made in the early part of 1943, either during the Kharkov counteroffensive or the early part of the Kursk offensive, when the Russians were in "Oh shit, the Germans are coming" mode and cranked them out of the factory as fast as they could.
QuoteI noticed the SIG556 also has a gas piston. Does that make it easier to clean? I'd imagine the piston head collects a lot of the carbon residue that would otherwise collect on the bolt assembly.
Yea, I guess you could say that. Doesnt expell the gasses back into the chamber/bolt area. Some of the arguements on gun boards are comical to say the least. They are more expensive.
QuoteI missed out on CETMEs while they were relatively cheap & plentiful.
You can still find them around. More expensive, though. It does fire the 7.62x51mm. :D
QuoteMost of my collection (what is left of it anyway) is milsurp bolt action rifles. Not the higher end stuff, but I have a Yugo M48 that I bought in brand new, unissued condition
Those are/were nice pieces.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 15, 2012, 10:26:09 PM
Yea, I guess you could say that. Doesnt expell the gasses back into the chamber/bolt area. Some of the arguements on gun boards are comical to say the least.
I've found that just about any argument relating to AR rifles ends up being pretty comical :D
I was totally unaware Smith & Wesson made a budget AR until a couple days ago. A local shop had the S&W M&P Sport priced at $645 and it seemed like a well-built rifle. It's missing two things I want: forward assist and dust cover. But that's mostly a nostalgia thing for me since the A1's & A2's I played with in ROTC had them. It's also missing a chrome-lined bore & chamber but I suppose I can live without that as well. I did like the flip-up rear sight & would probably just use that for a while, as I sort through all the options for optical sights.
Even at full MSRP ($739) this seems like a hell of a deal for an entry-level AR made by one of the best-known firearms manufacturers & carrying a lifetime warranty. But I'll shop around & see if I can find it for closer to $600.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.impactguns.com%2Fdata%2Fdefault%2Fimages%2Fcatalog%2F535%2F022188145663.jpg&hash=0dbd824517fca011adc9e6e0fecffdf4a23861c6)
Looks like a good piece. Here's a review.
http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/back-in-black-sws-mp15?page=5
Passed my qualification for a CCDW today. :cool:
But somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
Quote
Passed my qualification for a CCDW today. :cool:
:thumbsup: congrats
QuoteBut somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
:blink:
I know, it makes no sense to me either. :hmm:
It's gonna cost me $75 for a replacement and they're on backorder. :(
A buddy and I went to the range today, as he wanted to try out his shotgun, and it gave me a chance to squeeze off several from my grandfather's old Remington 700 hunting rifle (that he used for moose) that my uncle passed onto me over Christmas.
The recoil kicks ass, but good to see the telescopic sight on it seems to still be quite well aligned. For not having shot a rifle in quite some time, I did rather well...though probably not well enough to make Siege proud. :P
Quote from: Caliga on February 18, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Passed my qualification for a CCDW today. :cool:
But somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
:hmm: Methinks the qualification criteria could use a bit more rigor.
Quote from: DGuller on February 18, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 18, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Passed my qualification for a CCDW today. :cool:
But somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
:hmm: Methinks the qualification criteria could use a bit more rigor.
No shit.
Way to go, Cletus.
Quote from: DGuller on February 18, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 18, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Passed my qualification for a CCDW today. :cool:
But somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
:hmm: Methinks the qualification criteria could use a bit more rigor.
Cal you all actually have a qual process?
Quote from: 11B4V on February 18, 2012, 11:20:47 PM
Cal you all actually have a qual process?
Yep, it's like this:
1. Fill out a bunch of paperwork.
2. Watch a 5 hour video consisting of Commonwealth Attorneys reading the statues related to CCDW and definition of deadly force to you.
3. Take a written examination based on the contents of said video.
4. Pass a range qualification, which requires you to fire 20 rounds into a sillhouette target at 7 yards and score at least 11 out of 20 hits on the target (nicknamed 'The Ray Charles Invitational'). I got 20/20 hits of course.
The entire process takes 8 hours. After all this, you get a bunch of shit in the mail and then have to take it to the county sheriff, who issues the CCDW (Kentucky is a 'shall issue' state) and sends a bunch of crap off to the state. Then the state mails you your license.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 18, 2012, 10:14:49 PM
Way to go, Cletus.
Screw you. :P I DON'T DO WELL UNDER PRESSURE. :blush:
The instructor made us field strip our guns, which I've done plenty of times, and I thought we were going to be asked to clean them, but instead he goes "I JUST WANTED TO SEE Y'ALL CAN DO THAT" and asked us to put them back together, clean up, and take them out to our cars. Because the Beretta is actually a PITA to put back together (unlike the Glock) I just threw the parts loose into my case and closed it. Somehow between the range and my kitchen table the adaptor/block disappeared. I never would have left my gun disassembled except for that fucker throwing that curveball at me. I mean, I had my RemOil out and everything. :rolleyes:
Quote from: DGuller on February 18, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
:hmm: Methinks the qualification criteria could use a bit more rigor.
You may mock me, but Marti would have loved being in this class because there was a woman in there who fits his mental definition of 'ugly Amurrican' exactly. I didn't think I'd ever find someone like that in my life until yesterday.
* She had her fingernails painted red, white, and blue.
* She was wearing a T-shirt with an American flag on it and the logo "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN"
* She wound randomly say "God Bless America". I thought at first she was doing this in lieu of swearing (she seemed to do it alot when she was feebly trying to load up her magazines), but then realized it was some sort of tic later.
* Her cell ringtone was "God Bless the USA".
* She kept telling everyone she was there because some 'foreigner' had tried to kidnap her five kids so she needed to be prepared for the next time it happened.
* She argued with the instructor about how she should be able to use deadly force against someone who was sitting in their car "looking at her kids". There was a lawyer in the class who tried to reason with her briefly, but then gave up.
But... she passed the course too. God Bless America, indeed. :)
Maybe you can be a character witness in the near future, Cal.
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 07:01:47 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 18, 2012, 11:20:47 PM
Cal you all actually have a qual process?
Yep, it's like this:
1. Fill out a bunch of paperwork.
2. Watch a 5 hour video consisting of Commonwealth Attorneys reading the statues related to CCDW and definition of deadly force to you.
3. Take a written examination based on the contents of said video.
4. Pass a range qualification, which requires you to fire 20 rounds into a sillhouette target at 7 yards and score at least 11 out of 20 hits on the target (nicknamed 'The Ray Charles Invitational'). I got 20/20 hits of course.
The entire process takes 8 hours. After all this, you get a bunch of shit in the mail and then have to take it to the county sheriff, who issues the CCDW (Kentucky is a 'shall issue' state) and sends a bunch of crap off to the state. Then the state mails you your license.
Wow. Thats a lot of shit for that ccw. Not hard, just have to edure it.
Yeah, but the good news is that the Kentucky CCDW is honored in most other states. FUCK YOU, CALIFORNIA. :mad:
for ref
God bless state rights. They sure make things simple. :)
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 07:10:35 AM
You may mock me, but Marti would have loved being in this class because there was a woman in there who fits his mental definition of 'ugly Amurrican' exactly. I didn't think I'd ever find someone like that in my life until yesterday.
* She had her fingernails painted red, white, and blue.
* She was wearing a T-shirt with an American flag on it and the logo "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN"
* She wound randomly say "God Bless America". I thought at first she was doing this in lieu of swearing (she seemed to do it alot when she was feebly trying to load up her magazines), but then realized it was some sort of tic later.
* Her cell ringtone was "God Bless the USA".
* She kept telling everyone she was there because some 'foreigner' had tried to kidnap her five kids so she needed to be prepared for the next time it happened.
* She argued with the instructor about how she should be able to use deadly force against someone who was sitting in their car "looking at her kids". There was a lawyer in the class who tried to reason with her briefly, but then gave up.
But... she passed the course too. God Bless America, indeed. :)
That's scary.
Here's another way of looking at it:
GREEN - states that trust Cal
RED - nanny bullshit states that don't
Quote from: PRC on February 19, 2012, 02:52:14 PM
That's scary.
I look forward to hearing about her on the news at some point in the future.
"LOCAL NUT SHOOTS ASIAN MAN WHO 'LOOKED AT HER KIDS FUNNY'"
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 02:53:58 PM
Here's another way of looking at it:
GREEN - states that trust Cal
RED - nanny bullshit states that don't
KY honors WA but not the other way around.... :lol:
Which is odd because it sounds like from what you were saying your CCDW is much easier to get. :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 03:09:41 PM
Which is odd because it sounds like from what you were saying your CCDW is much easier to get. :hmm:
Yea, you would figure it the other way around.
QuoteWhat are the requirements for a Washington concealed weapon permit?
•Be 21 years of age or older at time of application.
•Be a United States citizen or a permanent resident alien with permanent resident card or "green card."
•Have no pending trial, appeal, or sentencing on a charge that would prohibit you from having a license.
•Have no outstanding warrants for any charge, from any court.
•Have no court order or injunction against possessing a firearm.
•Have no mental health conditions that would prohibit you from having a license.
•Have no felony convictions, or adjudications for a felony offense, in this state or elsewhere. "Felony" means any felony offense under the laws of Washington, or any federal or out-of-state offense comparable to a felony offense under the laws of Washington.
•Have no convictions for any of the following crimes committed by one family member against another on or after July 1, 1993: ◦Assault IV
◦Coercion
◦Stalking
◦Reckless Endangerment
◦Criminal Trespass in the first degree
◦Violation of the provisions of a protection order or no-contact order restraining the person or excluding the person from the residence
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 07:10:35 AM
* She wound randomly say "God Bless America". I thought at first she was doing this in lieu of swearing (she seemed to do it alot when she was feebly trying to load up her magazines), but then realized it was some sort of tic later.
I had a sergeant once who would say "God Bless America" in place of swearing, but more in a facetious way to avoid to be vulgar. He was also big into owning firearms and shooting, but he was also:
- Black
- Muslim
- Married to a Korean woman
Black AND Muslim? More like "God Damn America" :(
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 03:58:45 PM
Black AND Muslim? More like "God Damn America" :(
Guy was very pro-American and Republican (into Ron Paul territory).
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 02:53:58 PM
Here's another way of looking at it:
GREEN - states that trust Cal
RED - nanny bullshit states that don't
I'm not a state, and I don't fucking trust you with a gun, either.
Well in any event you picked the right state to live in. :)
Quote from: 11B4V on February 19, 2012, 03:26:04 PM
•Have no mental health conditions that would prohibit you from having a license.
Awwww. :(
Add 3 disapproval points Cal.
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Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2012, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 02:53:58 PM
Here's another way of looking at it:
GREEN - states that trust Cal
RED - nanny bullshit states that don't
I'm not a state, and I don't fucking trust you with a gun, either.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 02:53:58 PM
Here's another way of looking at it:
GREEN - states that trust Cal
RED - nanny bullshit states that don't
So most of the decent States say no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmtOEI7sAAs
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 19, 2012, 09:11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmtOEI7sAAs
That's fucking terrifying.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 19, 2012, 08:23:28 PM
Add 3 disapproval points Cal.
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For what? No sir, I decline. :)
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2012, 08:56:41 PM
So most of the decent States say no?
If by 'decent states' you mean 'states that don't trust their residents to defend themselves', then I guess the answer is yes. :bowler:
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2012, 08:56:41 PM
So most of the decent States say no?
If by 'decent states' you mean 'states that don't trust their residents to defend themselves', then I guess the answer is yes. :bowler:
Defend themselves against...?
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2012, 02:16:09 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2012, 08:56:41 PM
So most of the decent States say no?
If by 'decent states' you mean 'states that don't trust their residents to defend themselves', then I guess the answer is yes. :bowler:
Defend themselves against...?
Niggers, Jews, the United Nations, fags and unions. You know, the usual.
God Bless America.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 20, 2012, 08:55:37 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 10:28:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 19, 2012, 08:23:28 PM
Add 3 disapproval points Cal.
For what? No sir, I decline. :)
There is no decline.
Put up your points, Cal. Don't make me learn how to use the "Admin" tab on this fucking site.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 19, 2012, 09:11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmtOEI7sAAs
What the fuck is wrong with these people!
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 20, 2012, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 19, 2012, 09:11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmtOEI7sAAs
What the fuck is wrong with these people!
Thinning the gene pool. See, guns are good for something.
I have a feeling the guy with the mortar isn't around anymore.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2012, 01:04:37 PM
I have a feeling the guy with the mortar isn't around anymore.
Yea, they need to work on their fire procedures a bit.
Quote from: Caliga on February 18, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
But somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
Never mind, I found it. It was: jammed into the receiver. :blush:
I had to kind of pry it out and after I reassembled the gun it was having trouble cycling, but I seemed to have worked it enough that it's cycling correctly now. God, that's embarassing. :ph34r:
Sigh.
It's not my fault. GLOCKS ARE EASY. :blush:
BTW Cal, how did the beretta shoot this time?
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2012, 08:56:41 PM
So most of the decent States say no?
If by 'decent states' you mean 'states that don't trust their residents to defend themselves', then I guess the answer is yes. :bowler:
Having met a number of Americans - I wouldn't trust them to defend theself either.
Better to trust your life to the RCMP.
What's the RCMP response time on a house break-in in Georgia?
That is going to be one tired horse.
Still haven't made a decision on my AR purchase. Well, I sorta did. I ordered a lower receiver I intend to slowly build upon. But that's more of a project. I may still buy that M&P 15, particularly if I can find it locally cheaper than the so-far best price of $645.
What I'm still trying to get my mind around is how friggin' expensive ammunition has gotten in the past few years. Back about 10-12 years ago I could easily find military surplus ammo for 10 to 12 cents per round even in small quantities. Hell, I remember buying Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo at $2.99 per 70-round bandoleer. Commercially-produced ammo cost more but was still reasonable.
I had not been out shooting much in the past decade and when I did I was able to simply draw from my small stockpile. Now that I'm about out of 9x19 and 9x18mm I need to re-stock, plus I need to start thinking about 5.56/.223 ammo. Looks like you need to buy that in the 1000's to get close to 20 cents a round. Yikes.
And so it begins
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Quote from: derspiess on March 02, 2012, 12:25:54 PM
And so it begins
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Lot you can do with that. :punk:
Quote from: 11B4V on March 02, 2012, 12:30:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 02, 2012, 12:25:54 PM
And so it begins
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Lot you can do with that. :punk:
Picked it up at AIM Surplus yesterday for $60. Went out to a local gun shop today at lunch and picked up a lower parts kit. I plan on buying a complete upper to go along with it. And I'll need a stock, of course.
At the same time, I have one of these things on order: http://lw15.com/
Was skeptical about a polymer lower, but people thought Glock was crazy for doing the exact same thing 30 years ago. There isn't a whole lot of stress on the lower receiver, anyway. Worth a shot at $99 shipped for a complete lower.
With most of the lower parts added. The two roll pins were a bitch to install-- everything else was easy-peasy. Need to shop around for a stock and then the lower will be complete.
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Keep us updated. :)
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2012, 12:39:16 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 19, 2012, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2012, 08:56:41 PM
So most of the decent States say no?
If by 'decent states' you mean 'states that don't trust their residents to defend themselves', then I guess the answer is yes. :bowler:
Having met a number of Americans - I wouldn't trust them to defend theself either.
Better to trust your life to the RCMP.
I suppose if two American citizens are in a situation where they have to defend themselves against each other you are going to have a 50% failure rate. Unless they are extremely incompetent and paradoxically both succeed in defending themselves against the other one.
The newest purchase. Remington Model 6 .270 Winchester.
Not tactical enough.
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2012, 12:39:16 AM
Better to trust your life to the RCMP.
I've had to deal with the RCMP in Alberta many times. All-around excellent operation. The Sheriff's Department and ASSIST has good peeps, too.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 11, 2012, 02:41:23 AM
The newest purchase. Remington Model 6 .270 Winchester.
My granddad had a really nice one in .30-06 IIRC. I did not inherit it :mellow:
Found a deal on a commercial spec stock over the weekend, so the lower is now complete. Will probably replace it with a mil-spec stock at some point, but it'll do for now.
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As for the upper, I had initially planned to go the cheaper route. DSArms has a sweet deal on $240 16" uppers ($365 after you add the bolt carrier group & charging handle) but they are pretty severely backordered. Del-ton had a comparable deal but they are also backordered.
Since I don't want to wait 2+ months to complete this project, I narrowed my search down to places that could ship within a couple weeks. Finally went with Palmetto State Armory. Price is a little higher than I originally intended to pay, but I'm getting a chrome-lined bore (inside of the bolt carrier is also chrome-lined) and they can apparently build & ship within 15 days: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/psa-16-mid-length-chrome-lined-upper.html
When it's all said & done, I will have built the rifle for a little less than what I would have paid for a lower-spec complete rifle.
You should be able to find something. The market is huge. Just dont settle, because you'll change it to the part you want anyway. A lot better to be able to put a weapon together than have a gunsmith do it. I'll tell you of a 2 year saga of a 338-06 some time.
In case you needed a new idea for a gun...
http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/products/af-2011-a1-double-barrel-pistol
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 12, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
In case you needed a new idea for a gun...
http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/products/af-2011-a1-double-barrel-pistol
Hmm, with a double-barrel pistol I wonder if you could attach *two* pistol bayonets? :lol:
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tacticalol.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 12, 2012, 05:02:07 PM
You should be able to find something. The market is huge. Just dont settle, because you'll change it to the part you want anyway. A lot better to be able to put a weapon together than have a gunsmith do it. I'll tell you of a 2 year saga of a 338-06 some time.
I ordered the PSA upper. These 15 days are going to seem like an eternity.
So derspicy, what do you need such a weapon if not for coming zombie apocalypse?
Quote from: katmai on March 13, 2012, 07:35:05 AM
So derspicy, what do you need such a weapon if not for coming zombie apocalypse?
I enjoy punching holes in paper from various distances. And I want to re-live my ROTC days.
Well, now I have two AR lower receivers but no upper half to put on them. Odd-- the parts that require you to go through a dealer to buy are easier to get a hold of than the parts that you can buy directly.
Anyway, the New Frontier lower (the one on bottom) is made almost entirely of polymer. Not just the receiver itself, but the trigger assembly, all pins, bolt hold-open latch assembly, etc. All those parts are upgradable to mil-spec metal parts if you choose, but they seem to work pretty well as they are. The full lower with (apparently mil-spec) adjustable stock was $99 shipped plus my FFL fee. No immediate plans for it, but I'll keep it around for a future project.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7116%2F7006780265_302156ee5e.jpg&hash=0604c900e8d8c64f86e4e689e4353e6e4628d403)
I'm on day 9 of my 15 business day wait for my full upper from Palmetto State Armory. Hopefully they won't let me down. I could have gone with a cheaper and quicker alternative, but for getting a chrome-lined bore and high quality bolt, they seemed like most bang for the buck, without having to wait *too* long.
Fun fact: To get a pistol permit in Westchester County (regardless of limitation) you need to get 4 referees to fill out, sign and notarize a 2 page reference letter.
Quote from: katmai on March 13, 2012, 07:35:05 AM
So derspicy, what do you need such a weapon if not for coming zombie apocalypse?
Well there's always Obama and the NWO to worry about.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 22, 2012, 06:03:21 PM
Fun fact: To get a pistol permit in Westchester County (regardless of limitation) you need to get 4 referees to fill out, sign and notarize a 2 page reference letter.
pistol... permit? :hmm:
Obama's the best thing that ever happened to the gun industry.
http://www.ruger.com/corporate/news/2012-03-21.html
QuoteSturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. Reports Strong First Quarter Bookings
March 21, 2012
Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. (NYSE: RGR), announced today that for the first quarter 2012, the Company has received orders for more than one million units. Therefore, the Company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders.
Chief Executive Officer Michael O. Fifer made the following comments:
The Company's Retailer Programs that were offered from January 1, 2012 through February 29, 2012 were very successful and generated significant orders from retailers to independent wholesale distributors for Ruger firearms.
Year-to-date, the independent wholesale distributors placed orders with the Company for more than one million Ruger firearms.
Despite the Company's continuing successful efforts to increase production rates, the incoming order rate exceeds our capacity to rapidly fulfill these orders. Consequently, the Company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders.
The Company expects to resume the normal acceptance of orders by the end of May 2012.
The Company will announce its results and file its Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q for the first quarter of 2012 on Tuesday, May 1, 2012, after the close of the stock market.
We know. But he's still bad.
For the moment. Maybe he should legislate the gun industry out of existence. It would definitely make life in the US better.
Quote from: Neil on March 24, 2012, 10:38:15 AM
For the moment. Maybe he should legislate the gun industry out of existence. It would definitely make life in the US better.
Naw
With languish being down and all, it gave me an excuse to start reloading the 38 Long Colt. Four inert rounds finalizing the seating depth and crimp.
Yes guns are bad Neil. :blurgh:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/531328_3498688757140_1569276284_33031797_1009684402_n.jpg)
Quote from: Neil on March 24, 2012, 10:38:15 AM
For the moment. Maybe he should legislate the gun industry out of existence. It would definitely make life in the US better.
"Guns don't kill people; dangerous minorities do."
Quote from: derspiess on March 26, 2012, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 24, 2012, 10:38:15 AM
For the moment. Maybe he should legislate the gun industry out of existence. It would definitely make life in the US better.
"Guns don't kill people; dangerous minorities do."
So in 20 years that will be you, thanks for making it come to fruition faster by the way.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 26, 2012, 01:46:13 PM
With languish being down and all, it gave me an excuse to start reloading the 38 Long Colt. Four inert rounds finalizing the seating depth and crimp.
Yes guns are bad Neil. :blurgh:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/531328_3498688757140_1569276284_33031797_1009684402_n.jpg)
Kinda reminds me of those .32 S&W Longs I have that I'll never shoot.
I need to get into reloading. With ammo prices this high, the equipment ought to pay for itself before too long.
I'll be loading 32 Smith & Wesson for a converted, (from .31 cal) 1849 replica, just waiting on the dies. Damn is that a small cartridge. Every time I look at it I think of that scene in Harlem Knights, "Stop shootin' that little mother fucker". 85 grain lead bullet at 650 fps.
The '49 is in the center.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168211_1715176170440_1569276284_31725658_8371897_n.jpg)
I just got a LEE turret press(4 hole) and set it up just for reloading the pistol calibers. Makes it easier to just change the turret with the dies already adjusted. 32 S&W, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special, .357, .380 ACP, 9mm, 45 Long Colt, .45 ACP. I'll still use the RCBS single stage for rifle.
Downstair, in the War Room. The set-up before mounting the Lee press.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/376373_2631174469825_1569276284_32698141_1792358986_n.jpg)
What a mess. Absolutely no rhyme or reason whatsoever.
There's a system. If not I would have already blowed myself up. ;)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpetcaretips.net%2FWylie_TNT_City.jpg&hash=de9317d5ace81583857baa0987821c689f65c9aa)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 27, 2012, 12:20:59 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpetcaretips.net%2FWylie_TNT_City.jpg&hash=de9317d5ace81583857baa0987821c689f65c9aa)
I shall save that, for I think it is cool. :D
Quote from: 11B4V on March 27, 2012, 12:17:21 AM
There's a system. If not I would have already blowed myself up. ;)
Any recommendations on a beginner setup? I want to start pretty simple with 9x19mm (I have a buttload of brass, plus some bullets I bought by mistake a long time ago) and then move up to 5.56x45 and later 7.92x57.
From what it sounds like, I can sorta go 'cheap' on everything but the scales.
Quote from: derspiess on March 27, 2012, 11:12:34 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 27, 2012, 12:17:21 AM
There's a system. If not I would have already blowed myself up. ;)
Any recommendations on a beginner setup? I want to start pretty simple with 9x19mm (I have a buttload of brass, plus some bullets I bought by mistake a long time ago) and then move up to 5.56x45 and later 7.92x57.
From what it sounds like, I can sorta go 'cheap' on everything but the scales.
Presses range from
single stage press:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fuserdocs%2FMiscellaneous%2Fwb709-6rcbsrcpressshvy.jpg&hash=f8bff7aafec486933ceb009506f3b7fa8c867301)
to the progressive (expensive) set-ups:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tactical-life.com%2Fonline%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F06%2Fdillon-reloading-b.jpg&hash=3ad8e5452d522a88658ed94955ca67e06f715c1e)
Sounds like your looking for bulk with the 9mm and 5.56mm. I would recommend this for entry level with Lee dies:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit
It will be faster then a single stage for the 9mm/5.56mm or any other pistol rounds and wont break the bank like a progresive will. Get extra turret plates. This allows you to set up a particular die and swap out when you change calibers with another set-up turret plate. You can always upgrade to a progressive once you get comfortable and use to reloading.
That kit also has one of the best reloading manuals around in it for beginers. (Lee 2nd edition). Read read read. Develop a good loading routine and stick to it. Understand that small changes i.e. in primer types, can make changes to how the load performs. Understand what things effects chamber pressures. Remember start low and work up the loads.
Get an
RCBS case lube kit; Stay away from ("One Shot" spray lube) from hornady.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/672826/rcbs-case-lube-kit
Get a good
case trimmer. I cant stress this enough. Trim to length, trim to length. A case that is not trimmed to proper length can spike chamber pressures to dangerous levels.
Manual powder trickler.
Brass tumbler is nice to have.
Other things, for example, like digital scales are nice to have. I been using an RCBS balance/beam scale for over 20 years. It's all I need, beings I hand weigh each charge to insure consistantcey. If you load in bulk with a mid range load, you dont need to do that. I will probably upgrade to a digital one of these days.
On the 8x57; Easy to load. It's one of the cartridges I'm currently working up hunting loads for in my Rem 700 Classic. I use only new Remington and Winchester brass for the 8x57. If you have Mil Surplus brass make sure it doesnt have a berdan type primer.
Lastly, reasearch with online forums. A good reloading one is http://www.thehighroad.org/
If you have a question...ask
Also is any of your brass military? If so, they will most and likely have crimped primers.
Dryer sheets in a brass tumbler. You learn new things all the time. :lol:
Hot damn, the upper is finally here.
I put an LMT rear sight ont it & slapped a Magpul Pmag in it (the GI style mags fit a little tight). Pretty generic M4-esque setup, but that's how I like it. If I ever go the "tacticool"/mall ninja route, someone please shoot me.
I need to get a sling, and possibly a relatively inexpensive red dot or optical sight, but otherwise I'm done. Hopefully i can sneak out for some range time this weekend.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7265%2F7024397295_8af64b63b5_c.jpg&hash=f31ba50f4af7e2041cd6f1eeedc04ca1d521612a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6098%2F6878300008_042336d769_c.jpg&hash=99688718bd8809c6c583da374d43040620ff2ecf)
Quote from: 11B4V on March 27, 2012, 10:28:51 PM
Presses range from
single stage press:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fuserdocs%2FMiscellaneous%2Fwb709-6rcbsrcpressshvy.jpg&hash=f8bff7aafec486933ceb009506f3b7fa8c867301)
to the progressive (expensive) set-ups:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tactical-life.com%2Fonline%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F06%2Fdillon-reloading-b.jpg&hash=3ad8e5452d522a88658ed94955ca67e06f715c1e)
Sounds like your looking for bulk with the 9mm and 5.56mm. I would recommend this for entry level with Lee dies:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit
It will be faster then a single stage for the 9mm/5.56mm or any other pistol rounds and wont break the bank like a progresive will. Get extra turret plates. This allows you to set up a particular die and swap out when you change calibers with another set-up turret plate. You can always upgrade to a progressive once you get comfortable and use to reloading.
That kit also has one of the best reloading manuals around in it for beginers. (Lee 2nd edition). Read read read. Develop a good loading routine and stick to it. Understand that small changes i.e. in primer types, can make changes to how the load performs. Understand what things effects chamber pressures. Remember start low and work up the loads.
Get an RCBS case lube kit; Stay away from ("One Shot" spray lube) from hornady.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/672826/rcbs-case-lube-kit
Get a good case trimmer. I cant stress this enough. Trim to length, trim to length. A case that is not trimmed to proper length can spike chamber pressures to dangerous levels.
Manual powder trickler.
Brass tumbler is nice to have.
Other things, for example, like digital scales are nice to have. I been using an RCBS balance/beam scale for over 20 years. It's all I need, beings I hand weigh each charge to insure consistantcey. If you load in bulk with a mid range load, you dont need to do that. I will probably upgrade to a digital one of these days.
Lots of good info-- thanks.
QuoteOn the 8x57; Easy to load. It's one of the cartridges I'm currently working up hunting loads for in my Rem 700 Classic. I use only new Remington and Winchester brass for the 8x57. If you have Mil Surplus brass make sure it doesnt have a berdan type primer.
Lastly, reasearch with online forums. A good reloading one is http://www.thehighroad.org/
If you have a question...ask
Also is any of your brass military? If so, they will most and likely have crimped primers.
The small bit of 8mm brass I have is from Remington hunting ammo. I have a bunch of 9mm brass and it's all commercial. The only other brass I have that I can find is 7.62x25mm (all S&B, boxer primed).
I should have some commercial 5.56 brass soon :) And I'll eventually have some commercial 7.62x54R brass if I can bring myself to shoot that nice S&B ammo. But with all the cheap 7.62x54R surplus ammo out there, I don't see myself reloading that any time soon.
Re: 5.56 ammo, I always said I'd avoid Russian steel-cased stuff if I ever got an AR-pattern rifle, but I'm tempted to order some Wolf 55 gr. stuff since AIM has it for close to $.20 per round.
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
Well 11B lives just south of ya.
Crap, no more trips to Seattle.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
:lol: There are people "like them" in just about every state of the USA.
What's the problem, cc? You would be very, very safe if you were around them. :)
...or very, very unsafe if you anger them. :cool:
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
I guess it's a good thing I didn't post pics of my menacing arsenal of Mosin-Nagants.
Ed, that's your cue to post the motivation pic.
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
I guess it's a good thing I didn't post pics of my menacing arsenal of Mosin-Nagants.
Ed, that's your cue to post the motivation pic.
zzzzz. *snort*
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.everydaynodaysoff.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2FMosin-Nagant-Arm-5-people.jpg&hash=21d12279b3c5182b7f70bb1348c21f479fa6cc45)
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2012, 05:20:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
:lol: There are people "like them" in just about every state of the USA.
I hate to be a Canadian Mountie faggit, but my reaction on seeing those guns is also somewhere around the "wtf" end of the spectrum.
As I've said earlier, in spite of my love for Amerikkka, the gun ownership issue is just one of those culture barriers where the twain shall never meet. :Canuck:
That's fair. I don't understand how you people drink milk from a bag, after all.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2012, 07:47:34 PM
That's fair. I don't understand how you people drink milk from a bag, after all.
Coming from the country that drinks wine from a box, should we really be pointing these things out?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/562859_213313188769763_117866468314436_285404_1648005128_n.jpg)
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2012, 05:20:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
:lol: There are people "like them" in just about every state of the USA.
Yes but surely they are in well marked areas so that sane people can can avoid them.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2012, 05:20:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
:lol: There are people "like them" in just about every state of the USA.
Yes but surely they are in well marked areas so that sane people can can avoid them.
:secret: No...we're everywhere.
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
Makes for a more polite society. You never know when someone's packin heat.
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 01:58:25 PM
Hot damn, the upper is finally here.
I put an LMT rear sight ont it & slapped a Magpul Pmag in it (the GI style mags fit a little tight). Pretty generic M4-esque setup, but that's how I like it. If I ever go the "tacticool"/mall ninja route, someone please shoot me.
I need to get a sling, and possibly a relatively inexpensive red dot or optical sight, but otherwise I'm done. Hopefully i can sneak out for some range time this weekend.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7265%2F7024397295_8af64b63b5_c.jpg&hash=f31ba50f4af7e2041cd6f1eeedc04ca1d521612a)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6098%2F6878300008_042336d769_c.jpg&hash=99688718bd8809c6c583da374d43040620ff2ecf)
Nice. Now you need to get a nice Aimpoint after your reloading set-up. :cheers:
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
How do you know it's not the other way around :yeahright:
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 10:33:34 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
How do you know it's not the other way around :yeahright:
Because I haven't spoken of my hatred of minorities in this very forum sirrah!
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 02:19:38 PM
Re: 5.56 ammo, I always said I'd avoid Russian steel-cased stuff if I ever got an AR-pattern rifle, but I'm tempted to order some Wolf 55 gr. stuff since AIM has it for close to $.20 per round.
It's low quality ammo. But, get the Boxer primed and not the Berdan primed stuff. Yes steel cases can be reloaded. Brass cases are more plyable, though.
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 10:33:34 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
How do you know it's not the other way around :yeahright:
Because I haven't spoken of my hatred of minorities in this very forum sirrah!
:huh:
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 02:19:38 PM
I should have some commercial 5.56 brass soon :) And I'll eventually have some commercial 7.62x54R brass if I can bring myself to shoot that nice S&B ammo. But with all the cheap 7.62x54R surplus ammo out there, I don't see myself reloading that any time soon.
I like the 7.62x54R. I wish Remmington would have put out a Model 700 Classic in that caliber. Loaded properly, in a modern strong action, it is right between the 308 and 30-06 in power.
On the 8x57
Most of the US made commerical 8mm ammo is so downloaded it isnt funny. It's loaded to only 35,000 psi. Most european loadings run in the 50k to 55k psi range. Stupid American shooters cant distinguish between the 8x57J and 8x57JS.
Example remington, winchester, federal 8x57 loadings for 170 grain bullet run 2350fps-2400fps.
Euro loadings like norma for a 196-200 grain bullet run 2550fps-2600fps.
Shooting commerical US loadings and properly handloaded/commerical Euro stuff is like night and day.
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
I trust guys like 11Bravo, Otto and Strix with advanced weaponry, and would feel comfortable backing them up during a forced-entry breach. Those other two...I dunno, man.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 28, 2012, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
I trust guys like 11Bravo, Otto and Strix with advanced weaponry, and would feel comfortable backing them up during a forced-entry breach. Those other two...I dunno, man.
Well I'm afraid Otto would get drunk and shoot somebody, and Strix hates mexicans, but yeah I would trust 11Bravo, hence why i didn't mention him.
:P
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 10:50:34 PM
:huh:
Your hatred of "dangerous minorities" and Catholics is well documented. :mad:
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 10:50:34 PM
:huh:
Your hatred of "dangerous minorities" and Catholics is well documented. :mad:
No shit. If the Pope was wearing a hoodie in derspiess's neighborhood, he'd be a dead man before he hit the ground.
Well if the Pope was wearing a hoodie he would look like the Emperor in Star Wars. Derspeiss might feel the need to kill him simply to bring balance to the force.
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 10:50:34 PM
:huh:
Your hatred of "dangerous minorities"
That was a Family Guy quote. Thought it was pretty well known
Quoteand Catholics is well documented. :mad:
:goodboy: Pshaw. I married a Catholic. What more do you want?
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 11:15:31 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2012, 10:50:34 PM
:huh:
Your hatred of "dangerous minorities"
That was a Family Guy quote. Thought it was pretty well known
Quoteand Catholics is well documented. :mad:
:goodboy: Pshaw. I married a Catholic. What more do you want?
Raid your children as Catholics :goodboy:
:P
As to family guy, never been a fan so didn't know it :blush:
My next purchase for later this year or when the whim stikes is a S&W 632 .327 Federal.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 28, 2012, 10:29:18 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
Makes for a more polite society. You never know when someone's packin heat.
Or heated discussions :D ala OK Corral :alberta:
V
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 28, 2012, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
I trust guys like 11Bravo, Otto and Strix with advanced weaponry, and would feel comfortable backing them up during a forced-entry breach. Those other two...I dunno, man.
If I have to do a forced-entry breach, we're all in a lot of trouble.
But you can trust me with an AR-pattern rifle. I'm not some range Rambo/mall ninja. I've had a buttload of firearms training (much of it in ROTC, where I became intimately acquainted with M16A1s and A2s), routinely qualified expert, etc.
I field stripped my new rifle last night to clean it from the factory test firing (I can't go to sleep knowing I have a dirty rifle) and was literally able to disassemble the bolt carrier group with my eyes closed. It had been over a decade and a half since I last had to do that. Took me back to '95, cleaning our loaned out National Guard A1s in one of the Military Science classrooms on a late Sunday with Pearl Jam blaring on the radio :cry:
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
Thanks for the non-mention. :(
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 29, 2012, 09:55:29 AM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
Thanks for the non-mention. :(
Serves you right. You disappointed me by not buying that Nagant pistol.
You may still have a chance, though. AIM is supposed to get more in ;) http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=350&name=Russian+M1895+7.62x38R+Nagant+Revolver
I've not even touched my SKS in 3 months. I know she's lonely. :(
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 29, 2012, 10:07:34 AM
I've not even touched my SKS in 3 months. I know she's lonely. :(
The obvious answer is to buy her a companion.
Speaking of SKS's, it's funny how rarity impacts market value and can trump other things like condition and quality of manufacture. I was at a gun shop a couple months ago & saw a pristine factory-reworked Russian SKS priced $100 lower than some beat-to-shit Albanian SKS.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 28, 2012, 10:32:51 PM
Nice. Now you need to get a nice Aimpoint after your reloading set-up. :cheers:
:pinch: Can't justify spending that much on a red dot sight.
If anything, I'll get one of these: https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_s/586.htm
Quote from: derspiess on March 29, 2012, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 28, 2012, 10:32:51 PM
Nice. Now you need to get a nice Aimpoint after your reloading set-up. :cheers:
:pinch: Can't justify spending that much on a red dot sight.
If anything, I'll get one of these: https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_s/586.htm
I hear ya. They are pricey to say the least. :(
Quote from: derspiess on March 29, 2012, 09:43:50 AM
I field stripped my new rifle last night to clean it from the factory test firing (I can't go to sleep knowing I have a dirty rifle) and was literally able to disassemble the bolt carrier group with my eyes closed.
Pfft. I can fire the rifle with my eyes closed.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 28, 2012, 05:20:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 28, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
Remind me not to go anywhere near where either of those two, or people like them, live.
:lol: There are people "like them" in just about every state of the USA.
Yes but surely they are in well marked areas so that sane people can can avoid them.
Yeah. It's called 'The Border'.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 28, 2012, 10:29:18 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It's true. A vicious cycle that forces me to be armed to protect ones self from the likes of Caliga and Derspicy.
Makes for a more polite society. You never know when someone's packin heat.
The evidence doesn't seem to support that.
Quote from: Neil on March 29, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
Yeah. It's called 'The Border'.
Thank God 1812 went the right way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0&sns=em
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 28, 2012, 11:00:22 PM
I trust guys like 11Bravo, Otto and Strix with advanced weaponry, and would feel comfortable backing them up during a forced-entry breach. Those other two...I dunno, man.
You're right not to trust me in that situation. :)
Nothing like an exhilarating day of CQB, Active Shooter, room/building assaults to get the blood pumping. :yeah:
Quote from: derspiess on March 29, 2012, 03:17:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0&sns=em
It's amusing you want to rely upon a battle won weeks after the war was over. :lol:
Speaking of the Battle of New Orleans, The Buccaneer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Buccaneer_%281958_film%29) movie with Yul Brynner as Lafitte was a childhood favorite of mine. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moviegoods.com%2FAssets%2Fproduct_images%2F1020%2F205483.1020.A.jpg&hash=cf30503c0b77f26b06b76c1044ad7ea06d446bd4)
Quote from: Barrister on March 31, 2012, 12:08:18 AM
It's amusing you want to rely upon a battle won weeks after the war was over. :lol:
Better late than never. :menace:
Speaking of guns, I drug the SKS and AK to the range yesterday. Burned off about 300 rounds and my aim now SUCKS. Lordy, I take a break from shooting and everything goes to shit. Wife shoots them, and she plinks the '8' and '9' area without trying. Or practice. DAMMIT.
The hunt for a SAIGA-12 with a price that doesn't offend me....continues.
Saiga shotguns used to be ridiculously cheap, like less than $200.
I'm thinking about getting a Saiga rifle in 5.45 and then doing the trigger and stock conversion to bring it to semi-military configuration.
Daddy want:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct454.aspx
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 14, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Daddy want:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct454.aspx
You think in such small terms. ;)
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct732.aspx
[quoe]The unit is currently tagged and insured in Maryland.[/quote]
Quote from: 11B4V on April 15, 2012, 04:45:07 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 14, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Daddy want:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct454.aspx
You think in such small terms. ;)
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct732.aspx
Ferrets were designed for midgets. Or "Brits" as some people call them.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2012, 07:22:35 AM
QuoteThe unit is currently tagged and insured in Maryland.
You would need an armoured car to survive traveling through Baltimore.
And I thought the double-barreled pistol was interesting...
http://www.horstheld.com/0-Spain.htm
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horstheld.com%2Fconc-c.JPG&hash=834741ae3fd35f6cc4799e71496968b7e0e0645b)
Now that's just silly.
Hmm, break top action.
That.....how does that work? It just shoots all three at once? Whats the point?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 08, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
That.....how does that work? It just shoots all three at once? Whats the point?
http://www.vincelewis.net/18shot.html
Oh a selector. That's pretty nifty.
I trust Cal with this much more:
http://nostarch.com/legoheavyweapons
http://www.amazon.com/Nerf-N-Strike-Vulcan-EBF-25-Blaster/dp/B0013U95U2
Oooh, I like the tactical vest.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 08, 2012, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 08, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
That.....how does that work? It just shoots all three at once? Whats the point?
http://www.vincelewis.net/18shot.html
I don't see a rail or anything you could attach a pistol bayonet to. FAIL :rolleyes:
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 08, 2012, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 08, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
That.....how does that work? It just shoots all three at once? Whats the point?
http://www.vincelewis.net/18shot.html
I don't see a rail or anything you could attach a pistol bayonet to. FAIL :rolleyes:
TACTICALOL.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftacticalol.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2Fone-dweeb-army.jpg&hash=b70ec9afaf07d0b1f54114a6741c0ab5ad9dbc82)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftacticalol.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2Fglock-drum.jpg&hash=905be40ba3778dffff6d9f6c941a47c69f5ff5dc)
I took delivery of my Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 Gauge "Breacher".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyattgunstore.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fmain1-121.jpg&hash=4714c69cee025156d46357010b441b09ea712eee)
320 bucks or so. It has been named "Melissa". She has been promoted to 1st line home defense.
As for the 'why? comments:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7zJVf.jpg&hash=472cf0a4f4083461505d2bc32bc39db991e8643a)
Thats I nice home defense addition. :thumbsup:
Needs a bayonet. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mossberg.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2F590A1%2F50771.jpg&hash=771d95da46ff5c75c58c0788243b5b79985c60c9)
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 11, 2012, 04:16:08 PM
Needs a bayonet. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mossberg.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2F590A1%2F50771.jpg&hash=771d95da46ff5c75c58c0788243b5b79985c60c9)
Nah. The last house before my current one, the person trying to break into the front door would have been turned into hamburger in the foyer. I had an old Remington waiting on that fucker.
He ran off. :cry:
Lolz. Everything needs a bayonet. Even a bayonet needs a bayonet.
I have never owned a shotgun. My home is defended by: a Glock 17 and 51 rounds of +P+ ammo. In separate 17 round mags, of course, not that silly double-snail mag in the pic a few posts above.
Btw, I learned only recently that Ohio has an odd sort of ban on magazines with a capacity in excess of 30 rounds. It's legal to own them, but you can't put bullets in them & use them. You also can't transport any loaded magazines in your car unless you have a CCW permit.
LoL Ohio.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/4756_1138610516659_1569276284_30333489_4397958_n.jpg)
While I carry a Mossberg M500 as one of my patrol long guns and like the modern SG's. I prefer my side by side 12 ga 3" Mag as mainline home D.
Rather elegant, harkening back to a more civilized age. :D
I will agree an SG is superior in the HD department when neighbors are close.
Ha, reminds me of a funny story when my city slicker GF moved out to my place in the country.
She got all freaked out about a bee hive that was about 20 feet up in a tree right off the back deck. I grabbed the SG from above the firplace, loaded two low base 8-shot shells in the tubes, and blasted the bee hive. Walked back in the house, put it back above the fireplace, and continued watching TV sipping on some sun tea. The look on her face was priceless.
SG's are good for beehives too.
I'll stick with chemical warfare on Yellowjackets and Wasps.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 07:22:53 PM
I'll stick with chemical warfare on Yellowjackets and Wasps.
Monster. Your use of WMD's will be your downfall :P
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 06:44:55 PM
While I carry a Mossberg M500 as one of my patrol long guns and like the modern SG's. I prefer my side by side 12 ga 3" Mag as mainline home D.
Rather elegant, harkening back to a more civilized age. :D
I will agree an SG is superior in the HD department when neighbors are close.
You need to chop that fucker down Mad Max-style, man. If it's never going to leave the house, who cares if it's illegal or not.
And yes, Shottie over Handgun for home defense. Although I answer my door with .357 tucked in the small of my back. Unless it's 1am, and then it's no longer fucking tucked.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:33:59 PM
You need to chop that fucker down Mad Max-style, man. If it's never going to leave the house, who cares if it's illegal or not.
Wouldn't it matter when the po-po arrives at his place after he calls about removal of the body from his doorstep? :P
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 11, 2012, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:33:59 PM
You need to chop that fucker down Mad Max-style, man. If it's never going to leave the house, who cares if it's illegal or not.
Wouldn't it matter when the po-po arrives at his place after he calls about removal of the body from his doorstep? :P
Meh, here it's a citation under Game and Fisheries laws because it's a shotgun, not criminal code.
And if he whacks somebody in the house, that would be the least of his legal concerns.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:38:30 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 11, 2012, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:33:59 PM
You need to chop that fucker down Mad Max-style, man. If it's never going to leave the house, who cares if it's illegal or not.
Wouldn't it matter when the po-po arrives at his place after he calls about removal of the body from his doorstep? :P
Meh, here it's a citation under Game and Fisheries laws because it's a shotgun, not criminal code.
And if he whacks somebody in the house, that would be the least of his legal concerns.
True, he doesn't live in Texas, where it might well be the other way around.
If my shotty with 6 shells doesn't do the job in home defense, then I'm fucked pistol or no.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 11, 2012, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:33:59 PM
You need to chop that fucker down Mad Max-style, man. If it's never going to leave the house, who cares if it's illegal or not.
Wouldn't it matter when the po-po arrives at his place after he calls about removal of the body from his doorstep? :P
@CdM I actually use it for pheasant hunting too. :D
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 07:55:00 PM
If my shotty with 6 shells doesn't do the job in home defense, then I'm fucked pistol or no.
True dat
That and I'd likely vacillate between the old .38, the PPK and the Glock. WHICH ONE WILL I PULL OUT OF THE SAFE?
Yes, I have that choice every morning when I load up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhe58xORWG0
One must maintain multiple options.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 07:58:19 PM
@CdM I actually use it for pheasant hunting too. :D
Sucks to be the peasants.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpadresteve.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F10%2Fhistory-of-the-world-part-i-1981.jpg&hash=6d849e165739754d26673a8648b8c0062567aacd)
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 08:06:53 PM
One must maintain multiple options.
Ed should mount multiple lock boxes throughout the compound, like little emergency armories. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY BREAK GLASS FOR GLOCK
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 08:06:53 PM
One must maintain multiple options.
Ed should mount multiple lock boxes throughout the compound, like little emergency armories. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY BREAK GLASS FOR GLOCK
:lol: I'm no prepper.
Guess what's waiting for me at the county sheriff's office? :cool:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbellsouthpwp2.net%2Fa%2Fr%2Farmingky%2Fimages%2Fkentucky_img9kR9rA_ky_ccw.jpg&hash=1534a2c85c1ec89fe972599f3fc57c51c83dda98)
(Except I'm not that guy.)
Quote from: Caliga on May 11, 2012, 08:48:18 PM
Guess what's waiting for me at the county sheriff's office? :cool:
It's easier to guess what's waiting for you at the nearest trauma center.
Guess who's coming to dinner? Natty Dreadlocks.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 08:37:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 08:06:53 PM
One must maintain multiple options.
Ed should mount multiple lock boxes throughout the compound, like little emergency armories. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY BREAK GLASS FOR GLOCK
:lol: I'm no prepper.
Only a prepper would so curtly deny being a prepper. Or something.
I do have 3 weeks or so worth of food on hand. Considering Katrina, the ice storms and knowing how disruptable the supply chain is, that is only prudent.
A years worth of freeze dried shit? pass.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:33:11 PM
I do have 3 weeks or so worth of food on hand. Considering Katrina, the ice storms and knowing how disruptable the supply chain is, that is only prudent.
A years worth of freeze dried shit? pass.
FOOD INSURANCE
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:33:11 PM
I do have 3 weeks or so worth of food on hand. Considering Katrina, the ice storms and knowing how disruptable the supply chain is, that is only prudent.
A years worth of freeze dried shit? pass.
FOOD INSURANCE
SPAM is my policy.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:36:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:33:11 PM
I do have 3 weeks or so worth of food on hand. Considering Katrina, the ice storms and knowing how disruptable the supply chain is, that is only prudent.
A years worth of freeze dried shit? pass.
FOOD INSURANCE
SPAM is my policy.
Mine is all the friggin' animals I have in my back yard/woods. I can't grow any vegetables because of them, but they may come in handy some day :D
I don't hunt. Just ain't my bag.
Unless they eat my wife's garden. THEN IT IS GAME ON, THUMPER.
And 'eat my wife's garden' sounds dirty.
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:42:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:36:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:33:11 PM
I do have 3 weeks or so worth of food on hand. Considering Katrina, the ice storms and knowing how disruptable the supply chain is, that is only prudent.
A years worth of freeze dried shit? pass.
FOOD INSURANCE
SPAM is my policy.
Mine is all the friggin' animals I have in my back yard/woods. I can't grow any vegetables because of them, but they may come in handy some day :D
Assuming radioctive fallout is part of the picture. Better hope it's just zombies.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2012, 12:45:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:42:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:36:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2012, 12:33:11 PM
I do have 3 weeks or so worth of food on hand. Considering Katrina, the ice storms and knowing how disruptable the supply chain is, that is only prudent.
A years worth of freeze dried shit? pass.
FOOD INSURANCE
SPAM is my policy.
Mine is all the friggin' animals I have in my back yard/woods. I can't grow any vegetables because of them, but they may come in handy some day :D
Assuming radioctive fallout is part of the picture. Better hope it's just zombies.
I intend to propose that my township decree itself to be a nuclear free zone. So I think we're gonna be okay.
Note to self: find that dude on the web who was selling real Rad-X & Rad-away.
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2012, 12:42:02 PM
Mine is all the friggin' animals I have in my back yard/woods. I can't grow any vegetables because of them, but they may come in handy some day :D
:hmm:
I wonder if vole meat tastes good? :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:33:59 PM
And yes, Shottie over Handgun for home defense. Although I answer my door with .357 tucked in the small of my back. Unless it's 1am, and then it's no longer fucking tucked.
You live in Baltimore. If someone knocks on your door at 1am, you should probably just start shooting and assume it's self-defence.
Licence to Kill CDWL: received. :smoke:
I met the new Sheriff today when I picked it up. His name is (no joke) Buddy Stump.
When I was leaving he said something to one of his deputies like "Well now I best be getting on back to the courthouse or they's gonna tar and feather me!"
I whistled the tune to Andy Griffith on the way back to my car. :)
Since my polymer AR lower was getting lonely I decided to jump on Palmetto State Armory's Memorial Day sale with free shipping and order this 20" upper for just under $300:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpalmettostatearmory.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2F2%2F0%2F20madness_002a.jpg&hash=29734d79e20b64bfdfae0a3e22388e8eec7096c6)
I plan to get a detachable carry handle and eventually an A2 stock to make it sorta kinda liked the A2 I fired in my glory days.
God bless holiday sales :thumbsup:
Took the Beretta to the range today. Not a single misfire (though I only put 45 rounds through it). :cool:
I guess leaving the slide locked open for a while made all the difference. :hmm:
Good deal.
Ok, so since I'm certain I'm going to keep the Beretta long-term now, it's time to get a holster for it. I'm thinking IWB and at this point Blackhawk Serpa or Crossbreed Supertuck. Hickok45 likes both of those and I've seen lots of positive reviews on Beretta forums. Anybody have any advice on this?
I'm not a fan of that type holster that goes inside the pants.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3oPw1WCYpU
Best thing to do is go to a store that has a butt load of holsters and start trying out.
Here's a good website to browse.
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&sortby=1&itemsperpage=20&newcategorydimensionid=14060
Here's what I prefer when packin heat
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/301813_4035393414421_81911258_n.jpg)
They sell a ton of holsters at the local range but alas none fitted for the PX4 Storm. :( If I had a Glock I probably would have picked one up there.
Samething I went through with the Browning Pro-9 above. It was trial and error to find a holster.
This might help
http://www.desantisholster.com/store/SEARCH-BY-GUN-MANUFACTURER/BERETTA/px4-compact-9mm-40cal
http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/holsters/beretta/px4-storm-holster
Quote from: 11B4V on June 08, 2012, 08:22:05 PM
I'm not a fan of that type holster that goes inside the pants.
Never was, either. Pancake holsters can be a pain sitting in a car for long periods of time.
Got my 20" AR M16A3-type upper last week. Pinned it to that polymer LW15 lower I bought a while back. Still need to get my carry handle to attach to the flat top so I can actually, you know, have a rear sight.
The polymer lower is so lightweight, the weight is a bit off-balance toward the front. So I'll eventually put together an aluminum lower to use with this and use a fixed A2-style stock, but the polymer lower will do for now. Here's how it looks so far.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi653.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu256%2Fderspiess42%2FDSCF2949.jpg&hash=ddf1dcd9e7e95ced2bb924d9cc8f9190c3607df5)
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 04:12:07 PM
I took delivery of my Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 Gauge "Breacher".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyattgunstore.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fmain1-121.jpg&hash=4714c69cee025156d46357010b441b09ea712eee)
320 bucks or so. It has been named "Melissa". She has been promoted to 1st line home defense.
As for the 'why? comments:
You should order one of those replica 1928A Tommy Guns, complete with custom violin case. :cool:
The pride of S. Korea - The Daewoo USAS 12 Automatic Shotgun
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi359.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo37%2Fbato73%2FUSAS12002.jpg&hash=edcf70489eaecc3e068e6c8f3d206f556531d5a4)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
The pride of S. Korea - The Daewoo USAS 12 Automatic Shotgun
Totally OP in BF3, even after the nerf.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 07:37:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 04:12:07 PM
I took delivery of my Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 Gauge "Breacher".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyattgunstore.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fmain1-121.jpg&hash=4714c69cee025156d46357010b441b09ea712eee)
320 bucks or so. It has been named "Melissa". She has been promoted to 1st line home defense.
As for the 'why? comments:
You should order one of those replica 1928A Tommy Guns, complete with custom violin case. :cool:
A semi auto Tommy Gun is like a hot chick with little titties
Quote from: derspiess on June 12, 2012, 07:23:02 PM
Got my 20" AR M16A3-type upper last week. Pinned it to that polymer LW15 lower I bought a while back. Still need to get my carry handle to attach to the flat top so I can actually, you know, have a rear sight.
The polymer lower is so lightweight, the weight is a bit off-balance toward the front. So I'll eventually put together an aluminum lower to use with this and use a fixed A2-style stock, but the polymer lower will do for now. Here's how it looks so far.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2012, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
The pride of S. Korea - The Daewoo USAS 12 Automatic Shotgun
Totally OP in BF3, even after the nerf.
In what way? Range? Stopping power?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 10:09:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2012, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
The pride of S. Korea - The Daewoo USAS 12 Automatic Shotgun
Totally OP in BF3, even after the nerf.
In what way? Range? Stopping power?
ROF is obscene, so its medium accuracy is still quite a bit overdone. Great stopping power, though. It's a fucking jackhammer close-in.
But before the patch, using slug rounds + USAS12 made it an insanely outrageous sniper weapon.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 12, 2012, 09:23:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 07:37:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 04:12:07 PM
I took delivery of my Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 Gauge "Breacher".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyattgunstore.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fmain1-121.jpg&hash=4714c69cee025156d46357010b441b09ea712eee)
320 bucks or so. It has been named "Melissa". She has been promoted to 1st line home defense.
As for the 'why? comments:
You should order one of those replica 1928A Tommy Guns, complete with custom violin case. :cool:
A semi auto Tommy Gun is like a hot chick with little titties
That's the problem with any cool gun that's normally fully automatic though.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2012, 10:41:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 10:09:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2012, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
The pride of S. Korea - The Daewoo USAS 12 Automatic Shotgun
Totally OP in BF3, even after the nerf.
In what way? Range? Stopping power?
ROF is obscene, so its medium accuracy is still quite a bit overdone. Great stopping power, though. It's a fucking jackhammer close-in.
But before the patch, using slug rounds + USAS12 made it an insanely outrageous sniper weapon.
Watched a couple of clips of this being fired on youtube and it had shockingly little recoil for such a large automatic weapon.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 12, 2012, 09:23:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 12, 2012, 07:37:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 04:12:07 PM
I took delivery of my Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 Gauge "Breacher".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyattgunstore.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fmain1-121.jpg&hash=4714c69cee025156d46357010b441b09ea712eee)
320 bucks or so. It has been named "Melissa". She has been promoted to 1st line home defense.
As for the 'why? comments:
You should order one of those replica 1928A Tommy Guns, complete with custom violin case. :cool:
A semi auto Tommy Gun is like a hot chick with little titties
And Assburgers boy doesn't understand why I got a shotgun.
A semiautomatic Thompson should do just fine for home defense.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 01:03:16 AM
That's the problem with any cool gun that's normally fully automatic though.
Nah, I'd say AKs and AR-pattern rifles are just about as fun to shoot in semi-auto as they are full-auto.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
A semiautomatic Thompson should do just fine for home defense.
It'd be okay, but frankly I'd rather just go with a 1911-type pistol instead-- same caliber and much easier to handle/maneuver in cramped quarters. A semi-auto Thompson is going to have to have a goofy-looking 16" barrel to be legal (or you gotta pay extra $$ for an ATF stamp to register it as a short-barelled rifle).
Quote from: derspiess on June 13, 2012, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 01:03:16 AM
That's the problem with any cool gun that's normally fully automatic though.
Nah, I'd say AKs and AR-pattern rifles are just about as fun to shoot in semi-auto as they are full-auto.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
A semiautomatic Thompson should do just fine for home defense.
It'd be okay, but frankly I'd rather just go with a 1911-type pistol instead-- same caliber and much easier to handle/maneuver in cramped quarters. A semi-auto Thompson is going to have to have a goofy-looking 16" barrel to be legal (or you gotta pay extra $$ for an ATF stamp to register it as a short-barelled rifle).
Can't gun down a howling mob with a 7 shot magazine, a 50 round drum on the other hand.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 13, 2012, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 01:03:16 AM
That's the problem with any cool gun that's normally fully automatic though.
Nah, I'd say AKs and AR-pattern rifles are just about as fun to shoot in semi-auto as they are full-auto.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
A semiautomatic Thompson should do just fine for home defense.
It'd be okay, but frankly I'd rather just go with a 1911-type pistol instead-- same caliber and much easier to handle/maneuver in cramped quarters. A semi-auto Thompson is going to have to have a goofy-looking 16" barrel to be legal (or you gotta pay extra $$ for an ATF stamp to register it as a short-barelled rifle).
Can't gun down a howling mob with a 7 shot magazine, a 50 round drum on the other hand.
God bless America. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.centerfiresystems.com%2FProductImages%2Fmags-drums%2FDRUM1911-25-B.jpg&hash=ab68a6340da1994d28c9eb72a44879b31fa12b76)
Take that Timmay
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 13, 2012, 11:01:15 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 13, 2012, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 01:03:16 AM
That's the problem with any cool gun that's normally fully automatic though.
Nah, I'd say AKs and AR-pattern rifles are just about as fun to shoot in semi-auto as they are full-auto.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 13, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
A semiautomatic Thompson should do just fine for home defense.
It'd be okay, but frankly I'd rather just go with a 1911-type pistol instead-- same caliber and much easier to handle/maneuver in cramped quarters. A semi-auto Thompson is going to have to have a goofy-looking 16" barrel to be legal (or you gotta pay extra $$ for an ATF stamp to register it as a short-barelled rifle).
Can't gun down a howling mob with a 7 shot magazine, a 50 round drum on the other hand.
God bless America. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.centerfiresystems.com%2FProductImages%2Fmags-drums%2FDRUM1911-25-B.jpg&hash=ab68a6340da1994d28c9eb72a44879b31fa12b76)
Now that just looks retarded.
A Tommy gun on the other hand looks so retro-future it hurts. The 1928 may be the most beautiful gun ever made.
Dual wielding the AA 12! :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8&feature=related
Gun thread: tainted.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 14, 2012, 08:41:01 AM
Gun thread: tainted.
One cannot be tainted by coolness.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 14, 2012, 08:34:22 AM
Dual wielding the AA 12! :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8&feature=related
Looks stupid.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 14, 2012, 08:34:22 AM
Dual wielding the AA 12! :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8&feature=related
and fuck your new age plastic bullshit. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.liveauctiongroup.net%2Fi%2F12142%2F12221709_1.jpg%3Fv%3D8CED93A4FF97E20&hash=1dafa95d8b329dd531b7e3a0af456b3ecdc9092d)
Bought one of these cheapie 2 MOA red dot sights for my AR M4-ish carbine. It's a knockoff of an Aimpoint M3, made by a company called Primary Arms & gets awesome reviews. I got the high cantilever mount and may at some point get a 3x magnifier for it.
(https://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/pknwg.xycut/v/vspfiles/photos/PAM3M-2T.jpg)
Now I just gotta train my eyes to use the red dot and not confuse myself with the front iron sight. It has multiple reticles but I'll probably just use the dot. Have a Magpul MBUS rear sight on order to replace the LMT sight, which I moved to my A3-ish rifle.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 15, 2012, 05:48:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 14, 2012, 08:34:22 AM
Dual wielding the AA 12! :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8&feature=related
and fuck your new age plastic bullshit. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.liveauctiongroup.net%2Fi%2F12142%2F12221709_1.jpg%3Fv%3D8CED93A4FF97E20&hash=1dafa95d8b329dd531b7e3a0af456b3ecdc9092d)
Stainless Steal = Plastic?
Full auto shotguns don't interest me in the slightest.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 14, 2012, 12:42:20 AM
A Tommy gun on the other hand looks so retro-future it hurts. The 1928 may be the most beautiful gun ever made.
Oh, it's definitely nice. For home defense a 1911 would just be a lot more practical.
In terms of submachinegun aesthetics, the MP5 is where it's at IMO.
Got both ARs pretty much how I want them. On top is the 20" with the A2 stock I installed today and the LMT rear sight. Decided against getting a detachable carry handle for now. It needs a sling, obviously.
On bottom is the 16" mid-length with the polymer lower and the red dot sight I got a couple weeks ago. It's folded down so it's hard to see, but I also have the Magpul back-up rear sight on there. I may get crazy & buy a 4x magnifier to put behind the red dot sight.
I haven't shot the 20" rifle yet, but I put 200 rounds through the 16". No issues at all and it seems like it's at least as accurate as I am. I zeroed it in 9 shots but pretty much had it zeroed after 6.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7114%2F7517379402_c2499ce1e3_c.jpg&hash=7d5702c92f112cad14faaee1d71608f204b5fc6d)
That pretty much satisfies the AR itch I had. Now I kinda miss having an AK :hmm:
I have my holster now. Crossbreed Supertuck. So far I like it, though it's still definitely in the breaking-in phase. :cool:
It is far too easy for people like you to get firearms in this country.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 06, 2012, 06:54:53 PM
It is far too easy for people like you to get firearms in this country.
I needs ta exercise MAH RAHTS.
I think I'm going to retire the .38 to the gun safe. So it can be handed down when the time is right.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 06, 2012, 07:21:50 PM
I think I'm going to retire the .38 to the gun safe. So it can be handed down when the time is right.
My Dad said the same thing, but it's the only one my Mom has the strength to pull the trigger on.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 15, 2012, 05:48:10 AM
and fuck your new age plastic bullshit. :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.liveauctiongroup.net%2Fi%2F12142%2F12221709_1.jpg%3Fv%3D8CED93A4FF97E20&hash=1dafa95d8b329dd531b7e3a0af456b3ecdc9092d)
Neat. Is that one of the ones from WWI? I think the Germans complained that it was a war crime to use it. I imagine a shotgun would be formidable in trench warfare.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 06, 2012, 08:46:01 PM
Neat. Is that one of the ones from WWI? I think the Germans complained that it was a war crime to use it. I imagine a shotgun would be formidable in trench warfare.
Yah, that looks like the ol' 1897 trench broom. And the Germans bitched about it as a war crime, which was pretty fucking funny coming from them. YOU WANT MUSTARD WITH THAT
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 06, 2012, 07:21:50 PM
I think I'm going to retire the .38 to the gun safe. So it can be handed down when the time is right.
get a .357 and use 38's in it also. :P DIVERSIFY MAN.
Quote from: derspiess on July 06, 2012, 06:36:06 PM
Got both ARs pretty much how I want them.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7114%2F7517379402_c2499ce1e3_c.jpg&hash=7d5702c92f112cad14faaee1d71608f204b5fc6d)
That pretty much satisfies the AR itch I had. Now I kinda miss having an AK :hmm:
I need to get a good aimpoint for the SR. When I got the rifle, I fired 30 rounds through it and stuck it under the bed. Been there ever since. Just pull it out once a month to do maintenance.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 07, 2012, 01:33:38 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 06, 2012, 07:21:50 PM
I think I'm going to retire the .38 to the gun safe. So it can be handed down when the time is right.
get a .357 and use 38's in it also. :P DIVERSIFY MAN.
I'm not a magnum man. I have access to a Colt python, but I don't like it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 07, 2012, 07:18:19 AM
I'm not a magnum man. I have access to a Colt python, but I don't like it.
PM me your price.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 07, 2012, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 07, 2012, 07:18:19 AM
I'm not a magnum man. I have access to a Colt python, but I don't like it.
PM me your price.
It isn't for sale. My dad doesn't sell his guns.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 07, 2012, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 07, 2012, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 07, 2012, 07:18:19 AM
I'm not a magnum man. I have access to a Colt python, but I don't like it.
PM me your price.
It isn't for sale. My dad doesn't sell his guns.
PM me your price when you get back from the viewing then. Whenever that is, I'll wait.
:lol: My dad would have it in the casket with him.
Crazy old coot. :)
Starting to think about buying a 1911.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 07, 2012, 01:14:22 PM
:lol: My dad would have it in the casket with him.
Crazy old coot. :)
That works to CdM's advantage. A shovel costs less than the gun would, anyway.
Pretty neat:
http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm
QuoteSince 1959, the venerable AR-7 has been the choice of U.S. Air Force pilots who need a small-caliber rifle they can count on for survival should they have to punch out over a remote area. Over the years, the AR-7's reputation for portability, ease of operation and reliability has carried over to the civilian world as well.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.henryrepeating.com%2Fimages%2Frifles%2Fh002b-survival-opent.jpg&hash=d64630bc86cc361e77c51b4e77caf0c83f6a1f8d)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 11, 2012, 04:30:04 PM
Pretty neat:
http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm
QuoteSince 1959, the venerable AR-7 has been the choice of U.S. Air Force pilots who need a small-caliber rifle they can count on for survival should they have to punch out over a remote area. Over the years, the AR-7's reputation for portability, ease of operation and reliability has carried over to the civilian world as well.
[im]http://www.henryrepeating.com/images/rifles/h002b-survival-opent.jpg[/m]
I'd rather go for a different "AR" that shoots a round that is .003" wider and has more interesting wounding characteristics :P
But yeah, that's a cool rifle. You'd think you could get them for like $99 as little as there is to them.
I've always wanted a mare's leg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t5f5AwkkiY
Good timing of opportunity, fire control, and tactical movement.
Not bad for 71.
lol love it
Awesome.
71 and still a badass. :cool:
Yeah.
After firing the first shot and immediately negating the threat resulting with the suspects fleeing, continuing to shoot them in the back, particularly with a civilian within the 90 degree cone of engagement.
That's a tough guy, alright.
Good thing it happened in Florida.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:34:23 PM
Yeah.
After firing the first shot and immediately negating the threat resulting with the suspects fleeing, continuing to shoot them in the back, particularly with a civilian within the 90 degree cone of engagement.
That's a tough guy, alright.
Good thing it happened in Florida.
I say they were still a threat, unless the one guy dropped his gun & I didn't see it.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:37:49 PM
I say they were still a threat, unless the one guy dropped his gun & I didn't see it.
:lol: They were tripping over each other faster that they could say, "Feets doan fail me now! Loady Loady Loady!"
I'd say the threat was substantially and immediately mitigated.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:39:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:37:49 PM
I say they were still a threat, unless the one guy dropped his gun & I didn't see it.
:lol: They were tripping over each other faster that they could say, "Feets doan fail me now! Loady Loady Loady!"
Yes, and that was funny as balls. Hopefully Pookie and Davonte's friends back on the block are giving them shit for running like startled little bunny rabbits.
QuoteI'd say the threat was substantially and immediately mitigated.
You're the tough-as-nails ex-cop so you're obviously more qualified than me on making that call, but IMO as long as that fucker is armed he's a threat.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:54:49 PM
You're the tough-as-nails ex-cop so you're obviously more qualified than me on making that call, but as long as that fucker is armed he's a threat.
Bah, I'm looking at it strictly from a civilian intercede perspective.
As a civilian shooter, that situation--from when he took his first shot--is rife with liability past the first shot.
If I were in that particular situation as a civilian, I would not have taken the first shot when he did; while he had a somewhat favorable position on Suspect #1, he had Suspect #2 off camera, and apparently to his far right, with civilians in between. Not a very clean scenario at that point in dealing with multiple targets. Hell, that woman damned near walked into the line of fire. Shame there's not another camera angle from inside the cafe to see the 2nd suspect's position, but I doubt it was a clean angle until he hauled ass--but you don't know if he'll do that until he does.
He moves up and follows their egress, but to continue shooting at that point? Meh. You don't know who's between you, them and the door. It'd be a real bitch if you ventilated a 12 year old because you're firing on the move against fleeing targets with a corner inbetween.
Once they turned, hauling ass and did the jump-ball thing, for a civilian shooter, it's over.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:09:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:54:49 PM
You're the tough-as-nails ex-cop so you're obviously more qualified than me on making that call, but as long as that fucker is armed he's a threat.
Bah, I'm looking at it strictly from a civilian intercede perspective.
As a civilian shooter, that situation--from when he took his first shot--is rife with liability past the first shot.
If I were in that particular situation as a civilian, I would not have taken the first shot when he did; while he had a somewhat favorable position on Suspect #1, he had Suspect #2 off camera, and apparently to his far right, with civilians in between. Not a very clean scenario at that point in dealing with multiple targets. Hell, that woman damned near walked into the line of fire. Shame there's not another camera angle from inside the cafe to see the 2nd suspect's position, but I doubt it was a clean angle until he hauled ass--but you don't know if he'll do that until he does.
He moves up and follows their egress, but to continue shooting at that point? Meh. You don't know who's between you, them and the door. It'd be a real bitch if you ventilated a 12 year old because you're firing on the move against fleeing targets with a corner inbetween.
Once they turned, hauling ass and did the jump-ball thing, for a civilian shooter, it's over.
If #1 had dropped his gun, I'd agree with you. Btw, is it me or were the bystanders acting like total morons. If you're not part of the fight, get behind some fucking cover and plant your ass there.
did he actually hit anyone? guy was like 5 feet away. someone needs to visit the range
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:39:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:37:49 PM
I say they were still a threat, unless the one guy dropped his gun & I didn't see it.
:lol: They were tripping over each other faster that they could say, "Feets doan fail me now! Loady Loady Loady!"
I'd say the threat was substantially and immediately mitigated.
I liked the shot outside, through the closing door. :lol:
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:44:03 PM
did he actually hit anyone? guy was like 5 feet away. someone needs to visit the range
Apparently he wounded both suspects. He used what looks like a sub-compact pistol & I wouldn't be surprised if it were a .380, which is a fairly puny round but I guess it's good enough to at least chase the bad guys away.
i see. then way to go old man!
These have apparently been in the works for a while, but I just found out about them yesterday:
StG-44 in .22LR
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.gunsamerica.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2Fbenstg-400x267.jpg&hash=a35388c209b37425c627ed1ce7113477d434ed66)
If I had $500 to blow on a .22, I'd be all over it. I'd like one in the original 7.92x33, even if it did cost me $.70 per round to shoot it.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:44:03 PM
did he actually hit anyone? guy was like 5 feet away. someone needs to visit the range
Apparently he wounded both suspects. He used what looks like a sub-compact pistol & I wouldn't be surprised if it were a .380, which is a fairly puny round but I guess it's good enough to at least chase the bad guys away.
Here's a news story on it...
QuoteAuthorities in central Florida say two men were trying to rob an Internet cafe when a 71-year-old patron began shooting his own gun, wounding the suspects.
Surveillance video shows two masked men entering the Palms Internet Cafe around 10 p.m. Friday. The Ocala Star-Banner reports one pointed a gun at customers while the other swung a baseball bat.
The video shows patron Samuel Williams pulling a handgun and shooting. He continues firing while the suspects fall over each other as they run out the door.
Nineteen-year-olds Duwayne Henderson and Davis Dawkins were later arrested and face attempted armed robbery with a firearm and criminal mischief charges. They were transported to Shands at the University of Florida in Gainesville.
Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip.
Both posted bail and were released.
Williams has a concealed weapons permit. Bill Gladson of the Marion County State Attorney's Office says the shooting appears justified.
Neither of the men have a criminal record, authorities said
Both men were arrested for attempted robbery with a firearm.
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 18, 2012, 04:10:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:44:03 PM
did he actually hit anyone? guy was like 5 feet away. someone needs to visit the range
Apparently he wounded both suspects. He used what looks like a sub-compact pistol & I wouldn't be surprised if it were a .380, which is a fairly puny round but I guess it's good enough to at least chase the bad guys away.
Here's a news story on it...
QuoteAuthorities in central Florida say two men were trying to rob an Internet cafe when a 71-year-old patron began shooting his own gun, wounding the suspects.
Surveillance video shows two masked men entering the Palms Internet Cafe around 10 p.m. Friday. The Ocala Star-Banner reports one pointed a gun at customers while the other swung a baseball bat.
The video shows patron Samuel Williams pulling a handgun and shooting. He continues firing while the suspects fall over each other as they run out the door.
Nineteen-year-olds Duwayne Henderson and Davis Dawkins were later arrested and face attempted armed robbery with a firearm and criminal mischief charges. They were transported to Shands at the University of Florida in Gainesville.
Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip.
Both posted bail and were released.
Williams has a concealed weapons permit. Bill Gladson of the Marion County State Attorney's Office says the shooting appears justified.
Neither of the men have a criminal record, authorities said
Both men were arrested for attempted robbery with a firearm.
I imagine being arrested after being shot in the ass by a 71 year old man isn't a great way to build criminal credibility in prision. ;)
Another video with more from the different angles. It looks like batman wasn't too far out off from a fairly constrained entryway the entire time.
WTF? Attempted armed robbers get to post bail and get released?
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 18, 2012, 04:10:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:44:03 PM
did he actually hit anyone? guy was like 5 feet away. someone needs to visit the range
Apparently he wounded both suspects. He used what looks like a sub-compact pistol & I wouldn't be surprised if it were a .380, which is a fairly puny round but I guess it's good enough to at least chase the bad guys away.
Here's a news story on it...
QuoteAuthorities in central Florida say two men were trying to rob an Internet cafe when a 71-year-old patron began shooting his own gun, wounding the suspects.
Surveillance video shows two masked men entering the Palms Internet Cafe around 10 p.m. Friday. The Ocala Star-Banner reports one pointed a gun at customers while the other swung a baseball bat.
The video shows patron Samuel Williams pulling a handgun and shooting. He continues firing while the suspects fall over each other as they run out the door.
Nineteen-year-olds Duwayne Henderson and Davis Dawkins were later arrested and face attempted armed robbery with a firearm and criminal mischief charges. They were transported to Shands at the University of Florida in Gainesville.
Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip.
Both posted bail and were released.
Williams has a concealed weapons permit. Bill Gladson of the Marion County State Attorney's Office says the shooting appears justified.
Neither of the men have a criminal record, authorities said
Both men were arrested for attempted robbery with a firearm.
Depending on what they were doing that might have been threatening the guy is in no way justified in opening fire. It's not his home (or even his business).
So you have to own the place to feel sufficiently threatened? :huh:
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 03:09:09 PM
These have apparently been in the works for a while, but I just found out about them yesterday:
StG-44 in .22LR
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.gunsamerica.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2Fbenstg-400x267.jpg&hash=a35388c209b37425c627ed1ce7113477d434ed66)
If I had $500 to blow on a .22, I'd be all over it. I'd like one in the original 7.92x33, even if it did cost me $.70 per round to shoot it.
:)
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:23:28 PM
If #1 had dropped his gun, I'd agree with you. Btw, is it me or were the bystanders acting like total morons. If you're not part of the fight, get behind some fucking cover and plant your ass there.
He turned and hauled ass; that made him no longer an immediate threat. The shooter was still drawn, so he could fire if necessary, if the suspect had turned back.
But he made sure that wasn't going to happen with the Yosemite Sam impersonation, laying down his own suppression fire. :lol:
That's the problem with drawing and engaging with some many bystanders around, they're just as unpredictable than suspects. That's one of the reasons you don't draw your firearm at the time he did, in a situation like that.
Meh, I'd qualify this as a "very lucky it turned out the way it did" scenario. Not one to show in defensive shooting class if I were an instructor, that's for sure.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Apparently he wounded both suspects. He used what looks like a sub-compact pistol & I wouldn't be surprised if it were a .380, which is a fairly puny round but I guess it's good enough to at least chase the bad guys away.
Yeah, it probably was a .380 if not something smaller. That's why I never carried anything less than Remington .357 Golden Sabers in my Smith & Wesson. When you shoot somebody, you want to make sure they don't get back up to testify.
The Federal HydroShoks are in the .45.
Goodamn, I hated that Glock.
Really hard to tell from the video but his gun looked like it could have been a baby Glock to me.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Apparently he wounded both suspects. He used what looks like a sub-compact pistol & I wouldn't be surprised if it were a .380, which is a fairly puny round but I guess it's good enough to at least chase the bad guys away.
Yeah, it probably was a .380 if not something smaller. That's why I never carried anything less than Remington .357 Golden Sabers in my Smith & Wesson. When you shoot somebody, you want to make sure they don't get back up to testify.
The Federal HydroShoks are in the .45.
Goodamn, I hated that Glock.
And CdM calls it...
QuoteWilliams surprised the two thugs by pulling his own handgun, identified by the Marion County Sheriff's Office as a two-tone .380-caliber Taurus TCP, and opened fire.
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ugh, that fucker is ugly. I borrowed a Taurus Millennium from a friend for a while and kind of liked it, but it was chambered .32ACP and felt very odd to fire... not sure if it was the caliber or something else about the gun itself. Anyway, I didn't think it was all that bad even though Taurus has kind of a checkered rep.
That's because Taurus is Brazilian shit.
I like my Walther PPK for my .380 needs. Plus, I can pretend I'm Adolf Hitler in the bunker.
My father in law has a Bersa Thunder 380. Nice little PPK clone.
I worked with a former Green Beanie years ago that brought in his PPK, one he scored in Europe in the early '60s. That thing weighed a fucking ton. None of that polymer shit, this thing was as heavy as a large frame revolver.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 08:11:59 PM
That's because Taurus is Brazilian shit.
I always liked the PT-92, at least back when they were cheaper than the original Beretta 92 they copied :mellow:
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 10:01:53 PM
I always liked the PT-92, at least back when they were cheaper than the original Beretta 92 they copied :mellow:
Meh, when I was in bail bonds a buddy of mine carried one. Felt tinny and cheaply made. Then again guns, you get what you pay for.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 10:01:53 PM
I always liked the PT-92, at least back when they were cheaper than the original Beretta 92 they copied :mellow:
The Millennium model I was referring to earlier was a PT-132; similar frame but (obviously) chambered differently.
Both my AR's have bayonet lugs & I figured I needed to get a bayonet to stick on the end, just because. Ordered one of these from Amazon. For practical purposes I will probably take it camping with me.
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I probably should have ordered the "white" stainless blade but black just looks so much cooler on a 100% black rifle.
I suck at knife-sharpening so I'll get my brother to do it.
I forgot to mention that I was at the gun range on Sunday morning and when we were done one of the dudes who worked there showed me their new indoor airsoft range and let me fire a bunch of the guns you can rent for free. The M-16 with an M-203 'grenade launcher' attachment fired like 50 airsoft pellets with each trigger pull. :lol:
btw this is the third straight time I've taken the Beretta without a single misfeed. :cool: I put probably 60-75 rounds through it each time, so I guess I worked the problem out by locking the slide open and/or thoroughly cleaning all of the machine grease it came with out of it.
Quote from: Caliga on July 24, 2012, 01:16:33 PM
I forgot to mention that I was at the gun range on Sunday morning and when we were done one of the dudes who worked there showed me their new indoor airsoft range and let me fire a bunch of the guns you can rent for free. The M-16 with an M-203 'grenade launcher' attachment fired like 50 airsoft pellets with each trigger pull. :lol:
Never heard of a place renting airsoft guns, but the grenade launcher thing would be cool to try.
Quotebtw this is the third straight time I've taken the Beretta without a single misfeed. :cool: I put probably 60-75 rounds through it each time, so I guess I worked the problem out by locking the slide open and/or thoroughly cleaning all of the machine grease it came with out of it.
I'm of the opinion that you should always clean the hell out of any new firearm you buy, even if it looks clean to begin with. Then bathe it in CLP and wipe it down just to be sure.
Colorado gun sales up 41% following the shooting.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 24, 2012, 04:33:51 PM
Colorado gun sales up 41% following the shooting.
Because as this board clearly demonstrates gun owners are nut jobs. :)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 24, 2012, 04:33:51 PM
Colorado gun sales up 41% following the shooting.
That douchebag Rich Wyatt blew a load in his pants.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 24, 2012, 04:33:51 PM
Colorado gun sales up 41% following the shooting.
I went to a local gun show Saturday (one of the bigger ones that comes through the area) and it seemed like the dealers had upped their prices a bit in anticipation of demand. The election year, specifically fear of an Obama reelection, was already pushing things upward. Lots of people buying.
If Romney wins, the bubble will burst and prices will plummet. If Obama wins, I think prices will go back down, just more slowly.
It's not like the President can do much about gun control. My understanding of the issue is that the Supreme Court has ruled unconstitutionnal any laws aimed at restricting the posesssion of a gun, be it at federal or state level. What do they think Obama will do, send in the army to collect the guns by force?
Quote from: viper37 on July 24, 2012, 07:16:39 PM
What do they think Obama will do, send in the army to collect the guns by force?
Actually, they do. They're that fucking nuts.
Almost. They expect him to curtail availability. Without control of Congress I don't see how he'll have much power to do it, unless he pulls some sort of executive order shenanigans. But I'm unaware of any significant cards he can play that way.
So Princesca told me that instead of us buying each other gifts for Christmas I can buy a shotgun instead. Yes, I have the greatest wife ever. :showoff:
I need shotgun buying advice PLZ. What gauge should I buy, what brands should I look at, etc.
I may want to shoot wildlife with this gun, if that makes a big difference. :)
I got the Mossberg Breecher, but it is mostly home defense.
I talked to some of Princesca's uncles/cousins and all I heard was Mossberg and Remington.
The mossberg is a good shotty. The one I got is for killing humans, not wildlife.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 24, 2012, 07:28:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 24, 2012, 07:16:39 PM
What do they think Obama will do, send in the army to collect the guns by force?
Actually, they do. They're that fucking nuts.
It's even more bizarre when you hear wing-nuts over here trumpeting the same arse-crack guff.
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2012, 07:39:04 PM
So Princesca told me that instead of us buying each other gifts for Christmas I can buy a shotgun instead. Yes, I have the greatest wife ever. :showoff:
I need shotgun buying advice PLZ. What gauge should I buy, what brands should I look at, etc.
I may want to shoot wildlife with this gun, if that makes a big difference. :)
12 gauge Mossberg is an excellent shotgun for the price, and can't go wrong with a Remington 870. 870s rack louder IMO, and whoever it is on the other side of that door in the middle of the night will immediately recognize it.
Bennellis are overpriced.
For home defense, make sure it's a tactical 18" barrel, get a pistol grip and a collapsible stock, or forgo the stock altogether. Full sized bird guns are too unwieldy in the home defense environment. Tell the missus you need to get another gun for the ducks.
And get one with a cool name like 'breacher'.
I agree with using the 18" barrel for home defence. The 18" Mark I was a fine weapon.
WTF does Caliga need a shotgun to defend his home from? Rabid squirrels?
Quote from: Caliga on November 28, 2012, 07:39:04 PM
So Princesca told me that instead of us buying each other gifts for Christmas I can buy a shotgun instead. Yes, I have the greatest wife ever. :showoff:
I need shotgun buying advice PLZ. What gauge should I buy, what brands should I look at, etc.
I may want to shoot wildlife with this gun, if that makes a big difference. :)
Make sure you have stopping power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_bore
Quote from: katmai on November 28, 2012, 11:00:42 PM
WTF does Caliga need a shotgun to defend his home from? Rabid squirrels?
Presumably blacks and meth-heads. It seems that the US is riddled with them.
Quote from: katmai on November 28, 2012, 11:00:42 PM
WTF does Caliga need a shotgun to defend his home from? Rabid squirrels?
Because accidental discharges from his Glock simply aren't exciting enough.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 28, 2012, 10:01:50 PM
12 gauge Mossberg is an excellent shotgun for the price, and can't go wrong with a Remington 870. 870s rack louder IMO, and whoever it is on the other side of that door in the middle of the night will immediately recognize it.
Bennellis are overpriced.
Mine is the Remington Magnum Wingmaster 870, and yeah that thing is loud when you move the action. It's from 1965 according to the serial lookup and has no noise or recoil suppression of any kind. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 28, 2012, 11:12:40 PM
Because accidental discharges from his Glock simply aren't exciting enough.
:hmm:
I don't own a shotgun, but I agree with those who say you should get separate guns for home defense and for huntin'.
I worry that a gun for me for home defense would be a bigger danger than security. I have no training on using a gun under pressure like that and worse I tend to shake when nervous. I bet all I would achieve would be arming the person breaking in.
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2012, 05:09:19 PM
I worry that a gun for me for home defense would be a bigger danger than security. I have no training on using a gun under pressure like that and worse I tend to shake when nervous. I bet all I would achieve would be arming the person breaking in.
It's not the right thing for everybody. But I think if you spend enough time at the range you'll be comfortable enough to develop some confidence.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 05:42:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2012, 05:09:19 PM
I worry that a gun for me for home defense would be a bigger danger than security. I have no training on using a gun under pressure like that and worse I tend to shake when nervous. I bet all I would achieve would be arming the person breaking in.
It's not the right thing for everybody. But I think if you spend enough time at the range you'll be comfortable enough to develop some confidence.
They teach you that stuff in CCW class too. How not to have your gun taken from you, etc.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 30, 2012, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 05:42:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2012, 05:09:19 PM
I worry that a gun for me for home defense would be a bigger danger than security. I have no training on using a gun under pressure like that and worse I tend to shake when nervous. I bet all I would achieve would be arming the person breaking in.
It's not the right thing for everybody. But I think if you spend enough time at the range you'll be comfortable enough to develop some confidence.
They teach you that stuff in CCW class too. How not to have your gun taken from you, etc.
I'm glad I don't have to consider any of this stuff. :bowler:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 30, 2012, 06:05:19 PM
They teach you that stuff in CCW class too. How not to have your gun taken from you, etc.
Mmmm, yeah.
Not in Kentucky they don't. :D
Here's what you do in the Kentucky class: watch a four hour video which consists of a collection of bureaucrats reading you the Kentucky statutes related to firearms, take a written test on said video, and take a range qualification test wherein you must get 11 of 20 shots on a paper target at 7 yards (anywhere on the target at all counts :lol: )
Quote from: Caliga on November 30, 2012, 07:26:23 PM
Not in Kentucky they don't. :D
Here's what you do in the Kentucky class: watch a four hour video which consists of a collection of bureaucrats reading you the Kentucky statutes related to firearms, take a written test on said video, and take a range qualification test wherein you must get 11 of 20 shots on a paper target at 7 yards (anywhere on the target at all counts :lol: )
Wow, you got screwed. I feel really good about the money I spent on my class now. :P
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 30, 2012, 07:35:30 PM
Wow, you got screwed. I feel really good about the money I spent on my class now. :P
The life you save may be your own.
The class was like 25 bucks. ^_^
Anyway, I didn't need to learn how to not have your gun taken away from you in that class, because I know kung fu. :cool:
Just because you buy a belt, doesn't mean you know kung fu. :rolleyes:
Imma choke your ass out. :menace:
Quote from: Caliga on November 30, 2012, 08:07:22 PM
Imma choke your ass out. :menace:
:lol:
You could try.
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
Deer season is almost over. DUCK SEASON!
Rabbit season!
I.. erm.. I mean SHE is planning for next fall. :)
You don't even know where you'll be next fall :rolleyes:
I KNOW!!! :weep:
Luckily, there are deer EVERYWHERE!
Why do you hate Bambi so?
Get a Barrett.
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
easy.
Remington or Winchester bolt action rifle, w/ 22" barrel
Caliber: .243 Winchester
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Thankfully I have access to my uncle's 'preserve' in WV where there are no such restrictions. Just pay the $100 fee to go toward the corn they feed the deer and stay away from whatever specific deer they tell you is off-limits. They even have tree-stands that have over time evolved into fully enclosed boxes we call "condos" :cool:
Quote from: katmai on November 30, 2012, 08:08:50 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 30, 2012, 08:07:22 PM
Imma choke your ass out. :menace:
:lol:
You could try.
Wanna put Katmai to sleep, don't need to choke him, just give him an open face turkey melt. Lights the fuck out. I know it works for me.
Somewhere out there today, there is a midwest white tailed deer that in the woods, doing deer things, trying to stay warm in the autumn night, happily going about its existence...not knowing that it is going to be shot next year and bleed to death by "a relatively capable--but small--woman." :(
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
easy.
Remington or Winchester bolt action rifle, w/ 22" barrel
Caliber: .243 Winchester
My uncle swears by .270 Winchester. I say .30-06 is hard to beat but if I every actually buy a deer rifle of my own it'll probably be a .308. I remember back in the day my dad used a crappy .30-30 lever action rifle :D
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Thankfully I have access to my uncle's 'preserve' in WV where there are no such restrictions. Just pay the $100 fee to go toward the corn they feed the deer and stay away from whatever specific deer they tell you is off-limits. They even have tree-stands that have over time evolved into fully enclosed boxes we call "condos" :cool:
Bummer. You should move out of that shit hole state.
Quote from: alfred russel on November 30, 2012, 08:27:27 PM
Somewhere out there today, there is a midwest white tailed deer that in the woods, doing deer things, trying to stay warm in the autumn night, happily going about its existence...not knowing that it is going to be shot next year and bleed to death by "a relatively capable--but small--woman." :(
And eaten by said woman... you forgot that part. :)
I'd hunt. But only from my RV. Getting muddy? Fuck that.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:31:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Thankfully I have access to my uncle's 'preserve' in WV where there are no such restrictions. Just pay the $100 fee to go toward the corn they feed the deer and stay away from whatever specific deer they tell you is off-limits. They even have tree-stands that have over time evolved into fully enclosed boxes we call "condos" :cool:
Bummer. You should move out of that shit hole state.
But if you must a good slug gun will work.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:31:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Thankfully I have access to my uncle's 'preserve' in WV where there are no such restrictions. Just pay the $100 fee to go toward the corn they feed the deer and stay away from whatever specific deer they tell you is off-limits. They even have tree-stands that have over time evolved into fully enclosed boxes we call "condos" :cool:
Bummer. You should move out of that shit hole state.
Thing is I never really thought about hunting here.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:26:36 PM
easy.
Remington or Winchester bolt action rifle, w/ 22" barrel
Caliber: .243 Winchester
Thank you. :) I'll look into that.. erm.. for her.. :whistle:
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:30:44 PMMy uncle swears by .270 Winchester. I say .30-06 is hard to beat but if I every actually buy a deer rifle of my own it'll probably be a .308. I remember back in the day my dad used a crappy .30-30 lever action rifle :D
That sounds like a bit more gun than I could handle at the moment. I think I'll stick to the lower gauge.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:30:44 PM
I remember back in the day my dad used a crappy .30-30 lever action rifle :D
How many times did he clunk you with it, trying the John Wayne
Stagecoach trick? :P
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
easy.
Remington or Winchester bolt action rifle, w/ 22" barrel
Caliber: .243 Winchester
My uncle swears by .270 Winchester. I say .30-06 is hard to beat but if I every actually buy a deer rifle of my own it'll probably be a .308. I remember back in the day my dad used a crappy .30-30 lever action rifle :D
Depends on the female for a .308, 30-06, or .270. The .270 would be the best of those in a 22" tube. Hell my time in the Alabama and Georgia, I used nothing but the 6.5x55 in a '96 swede mauser I sportorized. Excellent whitetail caliber.
A small stature woman a .243, 25-06, or modern bolt action 7x57. The latter two if she wanted to be different.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 30, 2012, 08:43:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:30:44 PM
I remember back in the day my dad used a crappy .30-30 lever action rifle :D
How many times did he clunk you with it, trying the John Wayne Stagecoach trick? :P
30-30 will work close in.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Illinois law states:
QuoteLegal Firearms
- Shotguns, loaded with slugs only, of not larger than 10 gauge nor smaller than 20 gauge, not capable of firing more than 3 consecutive slugs; or
- Single or double barreled muzzleloading rifles of at least .45 caliber shooting a single projectile through a barrel of at least sixteen inches in length; or
- Centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches.
Handguns? Really? Wow....
Anyway, I want to go with a shot gun. Seems most commonly allowed, so no matter where we go, it should be okay.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:39:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:31:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
So, question: What should a relatively capable - but small - woman get if she - hypothetically - wanted to go hunting? For deer? (Midwest white-tail deer.)
:)
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Thankfully I have access to my uncle's 'preserve' in WV where there are no such restrictions. Just pay the $100 fee to go toward the corn they feed the deer and stay away from whatever specific deer they tell you is off-limits. They even have tree-stands that have over time evolved into fully enclosed boxes we call "condos" :cool:
Bummer. You should move out of that shit hole state.
Thing is I never really thought about hunting here.
Prob a lot of good hunting. Check it out.
Anyway the 30-06 will handle anything in the lower 48. Largest variety of commerical ammo loadings. Cant go wrong with it, however.
I bring my sportorized '03 Springfield hunting as a back up rifle if the main breaks. It stays in the case, but it will always goes.
My aunt hunts in Southern Ohio with one of those Davy Crockett-style old fashioned muzzleloaders. :lol:
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Well first of all double-check the state laws. I found out only recently that you can't hunt deer in Ohio with a rifle-- only shotgun/slug :rolleyes:
Illinois law states:
QuoteLegal Firearms
- Shotguns, loaded with slugs only, of not larger than 10 gauge nor smaller than 20 gauge, not capable of firing more than 3 consecutive slugs; or
- Single or double barreled muzzleloading rifles of at least .45 caliber shooting a single projectile through a barrel of at least sixteen inches in length; or
- Centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches.
Handguns? Really? Wow....
Anyway, I want to go with a shot gun. Seems most commonly allowed, so no matter where we go, it should be okay.
Screw that, I want to see you lugging around an old school muzzleloader :P
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Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:57:29 PM
Anyway the 30-06 will handle anything in the lower 48. Largest variety of commerical ammo loadings. Cant go wrong with it, however.
I bring my sportorized '03 Springfield hunting as a back up rifle if the main breaks. It stays in the case, but it will always goes.
I want to get scout scope mounts for my K98 and Finn M39. Both are pretty accurate and I have some decent hunting ammo in both 8mm and 7.62x54R. Be fun to take a deer with either one just for the hell of it.
Hell yeah, get a .454. Freedom Arms deer hunting revolver.
I only hunt human.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 09:03:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 08:57:29 PM
Anyway the 30-06 will handle anything in the lower 48. Largest variety of commerical ammo loadings. Cant go wrong with it, however.
I bring my sportorized '03 Springfield hunting as a back up rifle if the main breaks. It stays in the case, but it will always goes.
I want to get scout scope mounts for my K98 and Finn M39. Both are pretty accurate and I have some decent hunting ammo in both 8mm and 7.62x54R. Be fun to take a deer with either one just for the hell of it.
This summer I picked up a Remington Mod 700 classic in 8x57. Got test reloads loaded w/ 200 grain, 185 grain, and 150 grain still sitting on the fucking bench. Work got in the way so I couldnt get a grouping and chrony reading. Maybe in the next couple of months.
My main deer rifle is the CZ 550 7x64 Brenneke. The Krauts around here should know that one.
CZ makes some damned purty looking rifles. In a shit-ton of different calibers, no less. I always wanted one of them in 7.62x39 just for the hell of it.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 09:12:47 PM
CZ makes some damned purty looking rifles. In a shit-ton of different calibers, no less. I always wanted one of them in 7.62x39 just for the hell of it.
They do. Both the CZ's come with a single set trigger. The other one I got this year was a CZ 550 in 6.5 Swede. Cabelas dude is where it's at. The Remington came from Utah store and the CZ came from Minnisota store.
Call up the store with the firarm your looking at. They will ship to the Cabelas nearest to you for 25.00. Go look at it. If you dont buy it your out just 25.00. Their gun guys are very good at judging condition. They were balls on with both the Rem and CZ.
How does this look? http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-12-Gauge-w/28-Barrel-Shotgun/product/10217909/ (http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-12-Gauge-w/28-Barrel-Shotgun/product/10217909/)
Also, how does one go about having shooting practice with a shot gun?
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:59:01 PM
Screw that, I want to see you lugging around an old school muzzleloader :P
I thought about it, but I don't like how long they take to reload. If I don't hit the deer right, I want to easily get a second shot off. I really don't like the idea of hurting a deer but not killing it.
That's also my issue with bow hunting. I'm just not strong enough to pull a 40# bow, and you really can't go hunting with less than that.
Okay. I really like this one.
http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-Slugster-20-Gauge-w/24-Barrel-Deer-Shotgun/product/10217942/ (http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-Slugster-20-Gauge-w/24-Barrel-Deer-Shotgun/product/10217942/)
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:59:01 PM
Screw that, I want to see you lugging around an old school muzzleloader :P
I thought about it, but I don't like how long they take to reload. If I don't hit the deer right, I want to easily get a second shot off. I really don't like the idea of hurting a deer but not killing it.
That's also my issue with bow hunting. I'm just not strong enough to pull a 40# bow, and you really can't go hunting with less than that.
QuoteDeer Hunting in IL.
Legal Firearms
Shotguns, loaded with slugs only, of not larger than 10 gauge nor smaller than 20 gauge, not capable of firing more than 3 consecutive slugs; or
Single or double barreled muzzleloading rifles of at least .45 caliber shooting a single projectile through a barrel of at least sixteen inches in length; or
Centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches.
Legal Ammunition
For shotguns and muzzleloading firearms, the minimum size of the projectile shall be .44 caliber. A wad or sleeve is not considered a projectile or a part of the projectile.
For handguns, a bottleneck centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding 1.4 inches, or a straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger, both of which must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Note: There is no case length limit for straight-walled cartridges.
Non-expanding military style full metal jacket bullets cannot be used to harvest white-tailed deer; only soft point or expanding bullets (including copper / copper-alloy rounds designed for hunting) are legal ammunition.
Look towards these as an example.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/706421.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://richsgunshop.com/catalog/zencart/images/large/rem_25090.jpg&imgrefurl=http://richsgunshop.com/catalog/zencart/index.php%3Fmain_page%3Dproduct_info%26products_id%3D532&usg=__GEVx2904larp9fwUCI7WWeF-2Nc=&h=237&w=1000&sz=73&hl=en&start=5&zoom=1&tbnid=lz9OjXe178RAwM:&tbnh=35&tbnw=149&ei=M225UIOvFui0igLZnoHYBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dscoped%2B12%2Bga%2Bdeer%2BGUN%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:37:23 PM
Okay. I really like this one.
http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-Slugster-20-Gauge-w/24-Barrel-Deer-Shotgun/product/10217942/ (http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-Slugster-20-Gauge-w/24-Barrel-Deer-Shotgun/product/10217942/)
Good chioce. 20 ga will do, but 12 ga would be better. Depends on the recoil you can handle.
But remember that does not come with a scope.
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:20:26 PM
How does this look? http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-12-Gauge-w/28-Barrel-Shotgun/product/10217909/ (http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-12-Gauge-w/28-Barrel-Shotgun/product/10217909/)
Also, how does one go about having shooting practice with a shot gun?
For SG Slugs
Buy gun, right ammo, go to range, have fun.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Look towards these as an example.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/706421.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd
I WANT!!
Max was concerned that a 12-gauge may have more of a kick than is good for me. Thoughts?
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Look towards these as an example.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/706421.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd
I WANT!!
Max was concerned that a 12-gauge may have more of a kick than is good for me. Thoughts?
Might be true. You shot a 12 ga before?
If not I would look towards 20 ga and dont rule out a scope. Look for a used one too.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Look towards these as an example.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/706421.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd
I WANT!!
Max was concerned that a 12-gauge may have more of a kick than is good for me. Thoughts?
Might be true. You shot a 12 ga before?
If not I would look towards 20 ga and dont rule out a scope. Look for a used one too.
I shot one a couple of years ago. It wasn't awful, but given my propensity for getting injured, I can see Max's concerns. I really like the Mossberg Pump you suggested. If anyone is looking for ideas on what to get me for my upcoming birthday and/or xmas... :whistle:
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 30, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Look towards these as an example.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/706421.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd
I WANT!!
Max was concerned that a 12-gauge may have more of a kick than is good for me. Thoughts?
Might be true. You shot a 12 ga before?
If not I would look towards 20 ga and dont rule out a scope. Look for a used one too.
I shot one a couple of years ago. It wasn't awful, but given my propensity for getting injured, I can see Max's concerns. I really like the Mossberg Pump you suggested. If anyone is looking for ideas on what to get me for my upcoming birthday and/or xmas... :whistle:
That slug ammo will recoil more than standard shot ammo. A 20 ga will put them down.
http://www.hyattgunstore.com/mossberg-54145-500-bantam-combo-20-ga-22-acc-24-rifled-slug-ap-camo.html
Doesnt have to be new.
I'm still the poors, hon. :) New or used, it'll be tough explaining the purchase for myself.
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 09:12:47 PM
CZ makes some damned purty looking rifles. In a shit-ton of different calibers, no less. I always wanted one of them in 7.62x39 just for the hell of it.
I'm normally not one for furriner firearms, by CZ does make a sweet handgun.
I still think Meri should get one of these:
Quote from: Caliga on November 30, 2012, 07:26:23 PMa range qualification test wherein you must get 11 of 20 shots on a paper target at 7 yards (anywhere on the target at all counts :lol: )
I failed at that during my military service. When shooting the 9mm pistol I always shot in the ground. I expected the recoil and therefore moved the barrel down when I pulled the trigger.
:huh:
Quote from: Caliga on December 01, 2012, 10:23:05 AM
:huh:
Yeah, I know it's silly. We didn't do enough pistol shooting for me to get rid of it. Then again, I was a lousy shot with the assault rifle, too. I was decent with the machine gun, though. :lol:
Quote from: Caliga on November 30, 2012, 08:07:22 PM
Imma choke your ass out. :menace:
:huh: Just how large is your arm span?
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Thankfully I have access to my uncle's 'preserve' in WV where there are no such restrictions. Just pay the $100 fee to go toward the corn they feed the deer and stay away from whatever specific deer they tell you is off-limits. They even have tree-stands that have over time evolved into fully enclosed boxes we call "condos" :cool:
Do they have a service where they tie all four of deer's extremities to a tree for your convenience? I would be all up for that.
Anyhoo. Just stopped by the gunsmith that is a couple of streets away. Convenient I know :D. The progress on the rifle is proceeding well.
He is rechambering a 338-06 I built about 15 years ago to a 338 Winchester.
2013 project is underway. yeah:
Ingredients:
1- Brand spanking new Winchester M70 Classic Featherweight 30-06 (aquired on trade)
1- 22" barrel chambered for 8x57mm from McGowan Rifle Barrels
1- Gunsmith
1- Leupold VX1 2-7 scope. :
Project 2013:
To have the same revolver I've had since 1995.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2013, 10:18:05 PM
Project 2013:
To have the same revolver I've had since 1995.
You should go shopping.
Meh. If I did for a semi-auto, it would probably just be for a M1911. Maybe a CZ if it were 9mm.
But I'd probably just buy another .347. Or maybe move up a frame size. Get something with a compensator and a bigger caliber. Like a S&W500. Stop Freightliners with that fucker.
Would rather just wait for Ed's father to die and skeeve that Colt Python, though.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2013, 10:27:52 PM
Meh. If I did for a semi-auto, it would probably just be for a M1911. Maybe a CZ if it were 9mm.
But I'd probably just buy another .347. Or maybe move up a frame size. Get something with a compensator and a bigger caliber. Like a S&W500. Stop Freightliners with that fucker.
Would rather just wait for Ed's father to die and skeeve that Colt Python, though.
CZ 75 would be a very good chioce.
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-compact/
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-b/
Quote from: merithyn on November 30, 2012, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 30, 2012, 08:59:01 PM
Screw that, I want to see you lugging around an old school muzzleloader :P
I thought about it, but I don't like how long they take to reload. If I don't hit the deer right, I want to easily get a second shot off. I really don't like the idea of hurting a deer but not killing it.
That's also my issue with bow hunting. I'm just not strong enough to pull a 40# bow, and you really can't go hunting with less than that.
Use a repeating crossbow. :contract:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F8%2F86%2FZhugenu-payne.jpg&hash=106c5eb08f964ff02d1b84d24fb0f38df3cf0c38)
Weapon of war or farm implement?
Inspired by 11B, I decided to do a little work this weekend that I had been putting off for a while. Took the 20" barrel AR I have and swapped out the flat-top A3 upper receiver out for an FN-made A2 receiver.
Had to remove the gas tube and barrel and re-attach both to the new receiver, but it was surprisingly easy to do. Used the armorer's tool, a 5/32 punch, an action block and vise. Took less than an hour and that was with me taking it slow. When I re-attached the barrel I torqued the barrel nut to 80 ft/lbs per the TM.
Finally have a "real" A2 clone, permanent carry handle & all.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-an2hOs8FXgY/UPtgp32mLwI/AAAAAAAAC4I/QZm8tIPUxuA/s785/20130119_220020-1.jpg)
YOu know, when you see gun people going on about their guns (and I don't mean that in a dismissive manner - lord knows I can go on about the things I find interesting), it makes the entire gun control debate centered around the "individual right" and the 2nd Amerndment seem so silly.
Very few of the people who care about owning guns care because they want to make sure they can overthrow the government if necessary, or even so they can defend themselves, or any other purely theoretical, practical reason to own a gun.
They want to have guns because they are a pretty damn cool toy.
Quote from: derspiess on January 19, 2013, 11:01:52 PM
Inspired by 11B, I decided to do a little work this weekend that I had been putting off for a while. Took the 20" barrel AR I have and swapped out the flat-top A3 upper receiver out for an FN-made A2 receiver.
Had to remove the gas tube and barrel and re-attach both to the new receiver, but it was surprisingly easy to do. Used the armorer's tool, a 5/32 punch, an action block and vise. Took less than an hour and that was with me taking it slow. When I re-attached the barrel I torqued the barrel nut to 80 ft/lbs per the TM.
Finally have a "real" A2 clone, permanent carry handle & all.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-an2hOs8FXgY/UPtgp32mLwI/AAAAAAAAC4I/QZm8tIPUxuA/s785/20130119_220020-1.jpg)
Nice
Quote from: Berkut on January 20, 2013, 01:50:48 AM
YOu know, when you see gun people going on about their guns (and I don't mean that in a dismissive manner - lord knows I can go on about the things I find interesting), it makes the entire gun control debate centered around the "individual right" and the 2nd Amerndment seem so silly.
Very few of the people who care about owning guns care because they want to make sure they can overthrow the government if necessary, or even so they can defend themselves, or any other purely theoretical, practical reason to own a gun.
They want to have guns because they are a pretty damn cool toy.
I think you nailed it.
Quote from: Berkut on January 20, 2013, 01:50:48 AM
They want to have guns because they are a pretty damn cool toy.
Too me, these are absolute works of art.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1197.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa437%2Fboxhead61%2F002.jpg&hash=4f39bd4a8ffd603f0a4abda9274949b7331094d9)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi827.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz195%2Firfubar%2FIMG_1086-1.jpg&hash=944eb45a0f84c4f2fbc2ca0afc5a14aad22c2c58)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1203.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb400%2FChetaf%2FMauser007.jpg&hash=e3d7e8d67e4a946aa7eb00b32038d59b8bc7d8a6)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.imageevent.com%2Flucky%2Fstrattonmauser%2Flarge%2FIMG_9761.JPG&hash=5d826765eb1806e465d010658dfa9bbc554e7ddb)
Yeah, I bet Star Wars nerds say the same thing about their dolls, er action figures.
Probably do.
Whats the general response to the NRA ad about Obama's kids?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKLA3BODXr0
I'm not sure if this is, to paraphrase tallyrand, evil or worse, a mistake.
Quote from: Viking on January 20, 2013, 03:40:10 AM
Whats the general response to the NRA ad about Obama's kids?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKLA3BODXr0
I'm not sure if this is, to paraphrase tallyrand, evil or worse, a mistake.
Wrong thread
Quote from: 11B4V on January 20, 2013, 03:22:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 20, 2013, 01:50:48 AM
They want to have guns because they are a pretty damn cool toy.
Too me, these are absolute works of art.
That's a fine looking chair, man.
Nice tiger-striping on that stock. Is it walnut?
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 12:08:17 PM
Nice tiger-striping on that stock. Is it walnut?
All walnut. The tiger strip stock is Turkish Walnut I believe.
Quote from: Viking on January 20, 2013, 03:40:10 AM
Whats the general response to the NRA ad about Obama's kids?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKLA3BODXr0
I'm not sure if this is, to paraphrase tallyrand, evil or worse, a mistake.
To me this ad highlights the cognitive dissonance among gun control supporters.
On the one hand the NRA is purest evil and anything they say is anathema. On the other hand beefing up security at schools is an idea worth considering. At least that is my impression of the public mood.
I personally give the NRA a pass on the whole "hands off the president's family" issue. The fact that the president's family has Secret Service protection is not exactly classified information and it's not an invasion of their private lives to discuss it.
Quote from: Berkut on January 20, 2013, 01:50:48 AM
YOu know, when you see gun people going on about their guns (and I don't mean that in a dismissive manner - lord knows I can go on about the things I find interesting), it makes the entire gun control debate centered around the "individual right" and the 2nd Amerndment seem so silly.
Very few of the people who care about owning guns care because they want to make sure they can overthrow the government if necessary, or even so they can defend themselves, or any other purely theoretical, practical reason to own a gun.
It sounds like you're saying owning guns can only be for one reason and not multiple reasons.
But why am I wasting my breath. I don't need to prove to you some need to exercise my second amendment freedom, or my first amendment freedom, or other freedoms. Hell, it's not as if you want to keep the second amendment in the first place.
QuoteThey want to have guns because they are a pretty damn cool toy.
A gun is not a toy.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
A gun is not a toy.
Neither is a sports car. But some people believe they are.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:38:16 PM
Okay.
Just saying. It would be a whole lot better if everyone who had either understood that. It isn't gonna happen though.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
A gun is not a toy.
Toy. Hobby. Either way, it's a leisure time activity.
It's certainly not a work tool for most.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
A gun is not a toy.
Toy. Hobby. Either way, it's a leisure time activity.
So is reading the paper, going to church, etc.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:48:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
A gun is not a toy.
Toy. Hobby. Either way, it's a leisure time activity.
So is reading the paper, going to church, and etc.
Going to church isn't about killing people, unless you're some kind of Aztec.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:48:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
A gun is not a toy.
Toy. Hobby. Either way, it's a leisure time activity.
So is reading the paper, going to church, and etc.
Going to church isn't about killing people, unless you're some kind of Aztec.
Hmm, I don't believe I've killed people in my 23 years as a gun owner.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
Hmm, I don't believe I've killed people in my 23 years as a gun owner.
Then you're not using your gun properly. The whole point of a gun is to kill.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
Hmm, I don't believe I've killed people in my 23 years as a gun owner.
Then you're not using your gun properly. The whole point of a gun is to kill.
Well unless it's a toy.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
Hmm, I don't believe I've killed people in my 23 years as a gun owner.
Then you're not using your gun properly. The whole point of a gun is to kill.
I've killed the hell out of some paper and cardboard. And plastic milk jugs filled with water.
I have steel targets that just take a punishment and keep going. The kind that have round discs that flip over a rail and then return to position when they get hit. Also, those cheap cases of bottled water make great targets. They explode nicely, but the bottles don't shatter and you can clean up after everything.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
Hmm, I don't believe I've killed people in my 23 years as a gun owner.
Then you're not using your gun properly. The whole point of a gun is to kill.
I've killed the hell out of some paper and cardboard. And plastic milk jugs filled with water.
Practicing? How ominous.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2013, 05:13:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
Hmm, I don't believe I've killed people in my 23 years as a gun owner.
Then you're not using your gun properly. The whole point of a gun is to kill.
Depends.
My Walther PPK wails for blood.
QuoteDewalt's answer to home protection that doesn't require a registration or license. This nail gun can shoot a 16-D nail through a 2x4 at 200 yards and incase of a home invasion well you can NAIL THEIR ASS to the wall. Im not saying it wont kill the perp but they wont get away. You can also help build a friends fence 2 blocks away while sitting in your front lawn. This is truly how you adapt and overcome so thanks Dewalt
I just got a power tools boner.
:lol:
We ain't gonna listen to pussy liberuls here. Pew Pew.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 20, 2013, 06:41:05 PM
My Walther PPK wails for blood.
Maybe you should just oil it.
You all stick with trying to attract chicks with your D&D gaming. Bottom line....guns attract the chicks.
Skip to 1:52 bitches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVMoOLh92S4
I dated a chick that liked me to wear my shoulder holster while doing her.
She was good people.
I came.
The only chick I ever dated that liked guns was the furriner I ended up marrying. And she's more accurate with my Glock 17 than I am.
The only chick I ever dated that liked guns was the furriner I ended up marrying. And she's more accurate with my Glock 17 than I am.
My wife doesn't even practice and she assrapes the paper targets. I take 3 months off, and I'm back to Italian army 1941 levels of marksmanship.
Pisses me off.
lol
Mine too. And her sister. Some women are naturals.
Every girl I've ever dated has been nervous about guns but totally turned on once they start firing. The shooting range is the absolute best date idea.
I got to dust off the scattergun and bust some Ditch Chickens this year.
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 20, 2013, 01:50:48 AM
YOu know, when you see gun people going on about their guns (and I don't mean that in a dismissive manner - lord knows I can go on about the things I find interesting), it makes the entire gun control debate centered around the "individual right" and the 2nd Amerndment seem so silly.
Very few of the people who care about owning guns care because they want to make sure they can overthrow the government if necessary, or even so they can defend themselves, or any other purely theoretical, practical reason to own a gun.
It sounds like you're saying owning guns can only be for one reason and not multiple reasons.
Not at all - I am saying that the reason most people who are passionate defenders of the individual right to bear arms are motivated to do so is based not on any desire to protect themselves from tyranny or even to protect their family, but simply because guns are a cool toy.
Quote
But why am I wasting my breath. I don't need to prove to you some need to exercise my second amendment freedom,
You don't need to prove anything to anyone. I will note, however, that the Second Amendment having anything to do with an individual right to bear arms is a figment of the supreme court. But that is neither here nor there.
My point is simply this: You don't really care about the Second Amendment per se (insofar as it exists for an actual purpose beyond the words it embodies)- you care about having the right to collect guns, because you like them.
Quote
or my first amendment freedom, or other freedoms.
Well, I submit that there is a fundamental difference between the "right to own guns" 'freedom' and other freedoms. Namely - that the right to own guns in the manner the NRA and gun afficionados purport is neither necessary or conducive to a free state, and therefore isn't a fundamnetal right at all, but simply a figment of a particular historical precedent.
I imagine if the Brits had tried to collect everyone's horses instead of the militia's guns at Concord and Lexington, we would all be arguing about the right to go zero to sixty in 3.5 seconds without interference in your basic right to keep and own transportation by the State.
Quote
Hell, it's not as if you want to keep the second amendment in the first place.
True enough.
QuoteThey want to have guns because they are a pretty damn cool toy.
A gun is not a toy.
[/quote]
Of course it is, in the same way some people collect cars as toys. Or thoroughbred horses. Or any other do-dad.
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
One of these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5lJXlNtpdo
Shoot it.
http://guns411.com/raven-mp-25-the-saturday-night-special/
It's good for teaching kids how to shoot.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2013, 02:24:26 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
One of these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5lJXlNtpdo
Shoot it.
There are guns big enough to shoot out other, smaller guns? Cool!
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
Save it for a local gun buyback.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2013, 02:24:26 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
One of these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5lJXlNtpdo
Shoot it.
"Predawndeath" needs to wash his hands. Yuk.
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
Keep it. They're too young yet, but you should teach your kids how to properly handle a gun. Not to fire it, mind you, but how to make sure one is empty, how to properly hand it to somebody, etc.
You never know when they'll come across one out in the real world (or heaven forbid, a friend's house) when you're not around. But there's nothing wrong with safety first.
Berk, teach your kids how to form a kampfgruppe.
we need a fat kid.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
Keep it. They're too young yet, but you should teach your kids how to properly handle a gun. Not to fire it, mind you, but how to make sure one is empty, how to properly hand it to somebody, etc.
You never know when they'll come across one out in the real world (or heaven forbid, a friend's house) when you're not around. But there's nothing wrong with safety first.
Right now I have Tommy on the "If you see a gun, don't touch it-- go tell mom or dad or some other adult" mantra. He repeats it back to me. I've let him look at some of my guns to hopefully de-mystify the whole concept for him and he's watched me clean them. Maybe in a year or two I'll let him shoot my old BB gun.
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 10:50:15 AM
Right now I have Tommy on the "If you see a gun, don't touch it-- go tell mom or dad or some other adult" mantra. He repeats it back to me. I've let him look at some of my guns to hopefully de-mystify the whole concept for him and he's watched me clean them. Maybe in a year or two I'll let him shoot my old BB gun.
That's usually the safe play; fear, then respect. Not a toy.
Or just leave 'em all around the house on the furniture like 11B does, and they'll treat it with as much indifference as a lamp. :P
I was going to stick to the 'teach them at 8-10 years of age' untill I saw the cool kid sized rifles.
Now I'm torn.
Holy sheep shit. I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms. I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous. Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose.
I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago. Glad I procrastinated on that.
No, that crowd isn't prone to panic or anything.
Obama said he supported small business. Maybe it's his underlying plan with his lame 23 exec orders.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2013, 05:01:14 PM
No, that crowd isn't prone to panic or anything.
For MLK day, I purchased a Mcmillan composite stock for the M70 featherweight. No, the prices on bolt action stuff hasnt changed. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2013, 05:01:14 PM
No, that crowd isn't prone to panic or anything.
Time to stick to the enclaves.
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 10:50:15 AM
Right now I have Tommy on the "If you see a gun, don't touch it-- go tell mom or dad or some other adult" mantra.
That's almost exactly the NRA's motto they teach to kids, which by the way is an extremely admirable program. I think it's "Don't touch--leave the area--tell an adult".
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...
Keep it. They're too young yet, but you should teach your kids how to properly handle a gun. Not to fire it, mind you, but how to make sure one is empty, how to properly hand it to somebody, etc.
You never know when they'll come across one out in the real world (or heaven forbid, a friend's house) when you're not around. But there's nothing wrong with safety first.
I could not agree more. They're going to come in contact eventually, and not training them how to be safe is a very bad idea. I was a complete idiot when I first came in contact with my friends' shotguns because my mom would not have any in the house and kept me away from them. I was so bad my friends were shocked and sat me down for a lesson there and then. I was 13. :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
Holy sheep shit. I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms. I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous. Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose.
I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago. Glad I procrastinated on that.
True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
Holy sheep shit. I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms. I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous. Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose.
I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago. Glad I procrastinated on that.
True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.
Hmm, maybe I'll sell the SKS and get a hunting rifle :hmm:
Quote from: Berkut on January 21, 2013, 12:58:45 AMNot at all - I am saying that the reason most people who are passionate defenders of the individual right to bear arms are motivated to do so is based not on any desire to protect themselves from tyranny or even to protect their family, but simply because guns are a cool toy.
That's irrelevant to any point he's making though, if something is constitutionally protected it doesn't intrinsically matter why someone wants to fight for its continued protection. Constitutionally protected behaviors don't have to be justified in most cases.
QuoteYou don't need to prove anything to anyone. I will note, however, that the Second Amendment having anything to do with an individual right to bear arms is a figment of the supreme court. But that is neither here nor there.
Well the right to privacy existing in the "penumbras of the bill of rights" is also a figment of the imagination of the SCOTUS. But you can make that argument about a great many SCOTUS interpretations, and unlike you I accept the fact that those interpretations are all valid law and to call them figments in instances where you politically disagree with them is just childish and stupid. SCOTUS says it is an individual right, so it is. Full stop. The statement about it being a figment of their imagination is asinine.
I'll note there is a lot of historical support for it as an individual right. The Virginia Declaration of Rights has a very similarly worded protection of gun ownership except it is a bit more obvious it is intended as an individual right because of its wording. The Virginia Declaration predates the Bill of Rights (and the Constitution.) I'll also note in the Federalist 29 Hamilton talks of how the people "at large" will always be armed and ready to assist the more regulated militia in times of necessity. The Second is pretty clearly, from historical context, intended to be an individual and not a group right. There's basically no explicitly "collective rights" in the entire bill of rights and a good amount of historical backing to the claim it was intended as both an individual right and a protection of militias as well.
QuoteWell, I submit that there is a fundamental difference between the "right to own guns" 'freedom' and other freedoms. Namely - that the right to own guns in the manner the NRA and gun afficionados purport is neither necessary or conducive to a free state, and therefore isn't a fundamnetal right at all, but simply a figment of a particular historical precedent.
The problem is the text of the Amendment clearly says it is necessary for a free state. Also, what is a "fundamental" right? Rights only exist as created by governments, are you arguing for some further rights as created by some exterior entity?
Note I'm a strong gun control advocate who owns lots of guns. I'm an extreme anti-populist on this issue, I think some people (I would fit this category) should be allowed to own guns and many others shouldn't. A strong regulatory regime will weed out the undesirables. But you're attacking the Second Amendment itself basically because you think it's stupid and you don't think the SCOTUS interpreted it correctly. But you can say the latter about a huge number of things, and calling those rulings "figments of the court's imagination" is not really productive or a realistic way to look at our society. As for it being stupid, maybe it is, but it's still there and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't in force. I don't particularly like the 17th Amendment or the 23rd amendment but that doesn't mean they don't have some constitutional weight, they do, they're part of the constitution.
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
Holy sheep shit. I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms. I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous. Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose.
I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago. Glad I procrastinated on that.
True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.
Hmm, maybe I'll sell the SKS and get a hunting rifle :hmm:
A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...
I'll keep my SKS-M. Thanks.
Quote from: Barrister on January 21, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...
In terms of being more useful to take down a deer, sure. But I would actually get less use out of it than my SKS, given that I go to the range to shoot targets a lot more often than I can get out to hunt. That's on top of the fact that I can easily borrow my dad's rifle (which I sort of consider mine) or one of my uncle's in a pinch.
Having said all that, I've never owned a hunting rifle and it would be neat to have one, especially given that I can essentially trade the SKS for one and maybe even have money left over.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 21, 2013, 05:33:39 PM
I'll keep my SKS-M. Thanks.
Now that's a fun little rifle to shoot. As much as I like the aesthetics of the M59/66 (and mine is pristine-- pretty much unissued condition), the grenade launcher on the front makes it way too nose-heavy. I'd like to trade it for a decent Russian SKS but I'm worried about getting screwed in the trade.
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 21, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...
In terms of being more useful to take down a deer, sure. But I would actually get less use out of it than my SKS, given that I go to the range to shoot targets a lot more often than I can get out to hunt. That's on top of the fact that I can easily borrow my dad's rifle (which I sort of consider mine) or one of my uncle's in a pinch.
Having said all that, I've never owned a hunting rifle and it would be neat to have one, especially given that I can essentially trade the SKS for one and maybe even have money left over.
There are more things to hunt than deer.
Oh wait - Ohio. I guess that's probably all you have. :console:
Coyotes and humans also.
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
Holy sheep shit. I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms. I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous. Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose.
I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago. Glad I procrastinated on that.
True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.
Hmm, maybe I'll sell the SKS and get a hunting rifle :hmm:
If you like punching paper. Get a bolt action .223 (5.56). If you also reload a 22-250 instead.
Quote from: Barrister on January 21, 2013, 05:47:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 21, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...
In terms of being more useful to take down a deer, sure. But I would actually get less use out of it than my SKS, given that I go to the range to shoot targets a lot more often than I can get out to hunt. That's on top of the fact that I can easily borrow my dad's rifle (which I sort of consider mine) or one of my uncle's in a pinch.
Having said all that, I've never owned a hunting rifle and it would be neat to have one, especially given that I can essentially trade the SKS for one and maybe even have money left over.
There are more things to hunt than deer.
Oh wait - Ohio. I guess that's probably all you have. :console:
I think it was Ohio that had lions, tigers and great apes recently.
And herpes monkey.
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 21, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...
In terms of being more useful to take down a deer, sure. But I would actually get less use out of it than my SKS, given that I go to the range to shoot targets a lot more often than I can get out to hunt. That's on top of the fact that I can easily borrow my dad's rifle (which I sort of consider mine) or one of my uncle's in a pinch.
Having said all that, I've never owned a hunting rifle and it would be neat to have one, especially given that I can essentially trade the SKS for one and maybe even have money left over.
Look at the Varmit Rifle...lol
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flatstanley.com%2F&hash=1e228c3286222f6e548b43583be7642151150c35)
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 21, 2013, 05:50:49 PM
Coyotes and humans also.
Hard to find humans up in the Yukon.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 21, 2013, 06:04:34 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2013, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 21, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...
In terms of being more useful to take down a deer, sure. But I would actually get less use out of it than my SKS, given that I go to the range to shoot targets a lot more often than I can get out to hunt. That's on top of the fact that I can easily borrow my dad's rifle (which I sort of consider mine) or one of my uncle's in a pinch.
Having said all that, I've never owned a hunting rifle and it would be neat to have one, especially given that I can essentially trade the SKS for one and maybe even have money left over.
Look at the Varmit Rifle...lol
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flatstanley.com%2F&hash=1e228c3286222f6e548b43583be7642151150c35)
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx
I might actually get their cheaper 770. Not sure if it comes in .223 but I know they come in .308.
Another option is saving my pennies and getting a nice M1 Garand from the CMP: http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm
Would be a perfect 40th berfday present for myself :)
And it keeps getting better. Found out that those crappy "poor man's PMAG" 20-round Thermold mags I got last spring for $3.50 a pop are selling for like $15 or more apiece. Ka-ching-- more money for the M1 Garand fund.
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2013, 04:56:20 PM
And it keeps getting better. Found out that those crappy "poor man's PMAG" 20-round Thermold mags I got last spring for $3.50 a pop are selling for like $15 or more apiece. Ka-ching-- more money for the M1 Garand fund.
I have to admit that a part of me would like to own a Lee-Enfield one day. :blush:
But then again it is also perfectly valid as a hunting rifle too.
Quote from: Barrister on January 22, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
I have to admit that a part of me would like to own a Lee-Enfield one day. :blush:
Thing weighs about 80 pounds doesn't it?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2013, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 22, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
I have to admit that a part of me would like to own a Lee-Enfield one day. :blush:
Thing weighs about 80 pounds doesn't it?
I held one once, wasn't 80lbs.
I don't really know enough about guns to compare it to anything though.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2013, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 22, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
I have to admit that a part of me would like to own a Lee-Enfield one day. :blush:
Thing weighs about 80 pounds doesn't it?
Not too bad, really. I had an SMLE Mk III and it wasn't any heavier than other rifles of its time. Wish I hadn't sold it-- that Lee-Enfield action was as smooth as butter and cycled very fast. Makes it understandable why the Brits were able to do without a semi-auto rifle for so long.
Now compared to today's super-light hunting rifles with their synthetic stocks it might feel a bit heavy.
Quote from: Barrister on January 22, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
I have to admit that a part of me would like to own a Lee-Enfield one day. :blush:
But then again it is also perfectly valid as a hunting rifle too.
My dad has one that we used to take out and shoot from time to time. I suppose one day it'll be mine.
Interestingly, he never used it to shoot up an educational institution, which seems to be something that Americans can't resist.
Quote from: Neil on January 22, 2013, 05:43:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 22, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
I have to admit that a part of me would like to own a Lee-Enfield one day. :blush:
But then again it is also perfectly valid as a hunting rifle too.
My dad has one that we used to take out and shoot from time to time. I suppose one day it'll be mine.
Interestingly, he never used it to shoot up an educational institution, which seems to be something that Americans can't resist.
With a Lee-Enfield??? I dont recall a school shooting with one here in the US. I could have swore the preferred weapon of choice is handguns w/ high cap mags.
Just with guns in general. I suspect owning any kind of firearm sets off the American hatred of schools.
Quote from: Neil on January 22, 2013, 06:17:23 PM
Just with guns in general. I suspect owning any kind of firearm sets off the American hatred of schools.
How canukian of you.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 22, 2013, 06:20:06 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 22, 2013, 06:17:23 PM
Just with guns in general. I suspect owning any kind of firearm sets off the American hatred of schools.
How canukian of you.
Looking down on our neighbours is something we really enjoy, almost as much as we love looking down on Francophones.
Quote from: derspiess on January 19, 2013, 11:01:52 PM
Inspired by 11B, I decided to do a little work this weekend that I had been putting off for a while. Took the 20" barrel AR I have and swapped out the flat-top A3 upper receiver out for an FN-made A2 receiver.
Had to remove the gas tube and barrel and re-attach both to the new receiver, but it was surprisingly easy to do. Used the armorer's tool, a 5/32 punch, an action block and vise. Took less than an hour and that was with me taking it slow. When I re-attached the barrel I torqued the barrel nut to 80 ft/lbs per the TM.
Finally have a "real" A2 clone, permanent carry handle & all.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-an2hOs8FXgY/UPtgp32mLwI/AAAAAAAAC4I/QZm8tIPUxuA/s785/20130119_220020-1.jpg)
Went through & calculated my final cost for this project. Factoring in the things I bought vs. extra parts I sold off this week (at a premium, thanks to the current craze), my final cost was just $358. And that's without using any junk parts-- everything was mil-spec or better.
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/video-30000-ww2-rifle-turned-in-during-police-gun-buyback/
Quote from: 11B4V on January 27, 2013, 12:53:36 PM
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/video-30000-ww2-rifle-turned-in-during-police-gun-buyback/
You do realize that gun buybacks are optional, right? Nobody is required by law to participate. Ergo, that guy was a moron.
They should send it to the US Ordnance Museum.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 27, 2013, 02:06:39 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 27, 2013, 12:53:36 PM
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/video-30000-ww2-rifle-turned-in-during-police-gun-buyback/
You do realize that gun buybacks are optional, right? Nobody is required by law to participate. Ergo, that guy was a moron.
They should send it to the US Ordnance Museum.
A lady turned it in. Yes she's a moron and yes it's optional and yes it should go to a museum..... :P
But there is factory ammo available for it now. ;)
Quote from: 11B4V on January 27, 2013, 05:46:10 PM
A lady turned it in.
I could see my mother doing something like that.
"It really old, because it has a swastika on the do-hickey for the thingie."
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 27, 2013, 06:35:01 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 27, 2013, 05:46:10 PM
A lady turned it in.
I could see my mother doing something like that.
"It really old, because it has a swastika on the do-hickey for the thingie."
Women are funny like that. Dont go on the internet lady. It was cool of the cops letting her know and giving it back.
I dunno about generalizing it. My wife would never do that but my mom is a total flake and I could easily see her making that mistake. Especially since she's a doofus about firearms.
I :P WILL AND CAN.
Sold the SKS. I'll miss it, but with the market being what it is I couldn't resist the opportunity. Sold it for 3x what I paid ten years ago.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.gunbroker.com%2FGB%2F327722000%2F327722222%2Fpix837727613.jpg&hash=73e9572bc1150380eb30633f0ce7f6f232299d94)
Now I gotta get my CMP paperwork in order so I can order one of their "service grade" M1 Garands.
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 01:19:50 PM
Now I gotta get my CMP paperwork in order so I can order one of their "service grade" M1 Garands.
I thought Ed Anger was the only Languishite that planned on storming Normandy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 01:19:50 PM
Now I gotta get my CMP paperwork in order so I can order one of their "service grade" M1 Garands.
I thought Ed Anger was the only Languishite that planned on storming Normandy.
If I can get enough out of my East German Makarov I might also buy a Rock Island Arsenal 1911. I see my collection slowly moving toward an American look rather than the Russkie/Kraut vibe it has had in the past.
Alles Klar, Der Kommissar?
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 02:01:02 PM
rather than the Russkie/Kraut vibe it has had in the past.
Eastern Front fanboiism is so...Timothy McVeigh.
Stay American, dammit.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2013, 02:19:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 02:01:02 PM
rather than the Russkie/Kraut vibe it has had in the past.
Eastern Front fanboiism is so...Timothy McVeigh.
Stay American, dammit.
Sez the dude with a P38 :rolleyes:
Got my Ruger LCP 380 for concealed carry at work. Lots of gang-related shootings in the 'burg.
Quote from: Scipio on January 30, 2013, 07:31:14 PM
Lots of gang-related shootings in the 'burg.
What gang are you in?
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 01:19:50 PM
Now I gotta get my CMP paperwork in order so I can order one of their "service grade" M1 Garands.
Their store in Alabama was closed on the day I passed through. :mad:
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 30, 2013, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 01:19:50 PM
Now I gotta get my CMP paperwork in order so I can order one of their "service grade" M1 Garands.
Their store in Alabama was closed on the day I passed through. :mad:
They have one in Ohio but Camp Perry is 4 hours away from me and there's nothing else up there I can use as an excuse to make the trip :(
Banning the AR-15 discriminates against women! (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/30/do-women-prefer-ar-15-rifles)
uhhhhh :unsure:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 31, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
Banning the AR-15 discriminates against women! (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/30/do-women-prefer-ar-15-rifles)
uhhhhh :unsure:
I guess women want to take out predators at very long range.
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 12:30:32 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 31, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
Banning the AR-15 discriminates against women! (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/30/do-women-prefer-ar-15-rifles)
uhhhhh :unsure:
I guess women want to take out predators at very long range.
It also works really well at short range :secret:
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
It also works really well at short range :secret:
Yeah but you can use anything at short range.
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
It also works really well at short range :secret:
Yeah but you can use anything at short range.
Oh, okay then :lol:
Like scissors? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
It also works really well at short range :secret:
Yeah but you can use anything at short range.
Oh, okay then :lol:
Like scissors? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM
I did not realize I had to specify I was talking about guns in the gun thread :P
Anyway scissors are too complicated to use, best to rely on the point and click interface a shotgun provides -_-
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
It also works really well at short range :secret:
Yeah but you can use anything at short range.
Oh, okay then :lol:
Like scissors? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM
I did not realize I had to specify I was talking about guns in the gun thread :P
Anyway scissors are too complicated to use, best to rely on the point and click interface a shotgun provides -_-
I dunno man, this looks like it would be hard to use at short range...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthedreamercomic.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F10%2Fme_n_musket.jpg&hash=e45f62bd394b78358f45f5d5b4649387cd55d291)
Nice bayonet :cool:
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
I did not realize I had to specify I was talking about guns in the gun thread :P
Anyway scissors are too complicated to use, best to rely on the point and click interface a shotgun provides -_-
A shotgun is not always the best weapon for a dainty woman to fire. Recoil can be pretty punishing. An AR-type rifle has very little felt recoil.
The claim that a ban discriminates against women is a bit over the top-- assuming that claim was even made-- but the AR has become a pretty popular weapon for women to shoot.
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
A shotgun is not always the best weapon for a dainty woman to fire. Recoil can be pretty punishing. An AR-type rifle has very little felt recoil.
The claim that a ban discriminates against women is a bit over the top-- assuming that claim was even made-- but the AR has become a pretty popular weapon for women to shoot.
I just thought it was silly a rifle was a good choice for self defense. Generally they are used for sport with handguns being better right?
A shotgun would be my weapon of choice, aiming is for suckers.
Quote from: Barrister on January 31, 2013, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
It also works really well at short range :secret:
Yeah but you can use anything at short range.
Oh, okay then :lol:
Like scissors? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM
I did not realize I had to specify I was talking about guns in the gun thread :P
Anyway scissors are too complicated to use, best to rely on the point and click interface a shotgun provides -_-
I dunno man, this looks like it would be hard to use at short range...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthedreamercomic.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F10%2Fme_n_musket.jpg&hash=e45f62bd394b78358f45f5d5b4649387cd55d291)
Chicks like big guns. ;)
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
A shotgun is not always the best weapon for a dainty woman to fire. Recoil can be pretty punishing. An AR-type rifle has very little felt recoil.
Neither does a .38, which is all she needs.
QuoteThe claim that a ban discriminates against women is a bit over the top-- assuming that claim was even made-- but the AR has become a pretty popular weapon for women to shoot.
QuoteGAYLE TROTTER [clip from Senate testimony]: "An assault weapon in the hands of a young woman defending her babies in her home becomes a defense weapon. And the peace of mind that a woman has as she's facing three, four, five violent attackers, intruders in her home, with her children screaming in the background, the peace of mind that she has knowing that she has a scary-looking gun gives her more courage when she's fighting hardened, violent criminals. If we ban these types of assault weapons, you are putting these types of women at a great disadvantage–more so than men because they don't have the same type of physical strength and opportunity to defend themselves in a hand-to-hand struggle."
Because, you know, that happens all the time. Joe Scarborough called her a jackass this morning. :lol:
But hey, she's your people. Stupid is as stupid says.
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 01:11:03 PM
A shotgun would be my weapon of choice, aiming is for suckers.
If you're going to shoot an intruder in the hallway, might as paint the hallway walls while you're at it.
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
A shotgun is not always the best weapon for a dainty woman to fire. Recoil can be pretty punishing. An AR-type rifle has very little felt recoil.
The claim that a ban discriminates against women is a bit over the top-- assuming that claim was even made-- but the AR has become a pretty popular weapon for women to shoot.
I just thought it was silly a rifle was a good choice for self defense. Generally they are used for sport with handguns being better right?
Maybe generally, but in this case you're overgeneralizing. Sure, a bolt action hunting rifle is not going to be the best thing to use to deal with a home intruder. But a relatively compact AR-type rifle isn't a horrible choice (and there are actually AR pistols that people use for this purpose). An AR rifle with a 16" barrel and adjustable stock is pretty compact, you can use a 20 or 30 round mag so you don't run out of ammo like that woman did recently with her revolver. And the 5.56mm round has some awesome stopping power (make bad guy go down fast) while not over-penetrating (not going through solid walls or said bad guy and into your neighbor's house).
QuoteA shotgun would be my weapon of choice, aiming is for suckers.
Drywall is cheap, eh? :D
For me it's a Glock 17 loaded with +P+ hollow point ammo.
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Drywall is cheap, eh? :D
Just how many times do people break into your house? If I am in a position to care about this I will gladly trade my drywall.
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Drywall is cheap, eh? :D
Just how many times do people break into your house? If I am in a position to care about this I will gladly trade my drywall.
That's the point. I was just repeating a line used by a gun dealer who successfully sold a shotgun to a buddy of mine.
And a sheet of drywall is pretty cheap, IIRC. About $15.
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 04:08:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Drywall is cheap, eh? :D
Just how many times do people break into your house? If I am in a position to care about this I will gladly trade my drywall.
That's the point. I was just repeating a line used by a gun dealer who successfully sold a shotgun to a buddy of mine.
And a sheet of drywall is pretty cheap, IIRC. About $15.
But mudding and sanding is a bitch.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2013, 02:19:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 30, 2013, 02:01:02 PM
rather than the Russkie/Kraut vibe it has had in the past.
Eastern Front fanboiism is so...Timothy McVeigh.
Stay American, dammit.
:blurgh: That reminds me, I need to get the new book out on the Korsun battles.
Russia wins.
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2013, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
A shotgun is not always the best weapon for a dainty woman to fire. Recoil can be pretty punishing. An AR-type rifle has very little felt recoil.
The claim that a ban discriminates against women is a bit over the top-- assuming that claim was even made-- but the AR has become a pretty popular weapon for women to shoot.
I just thought it was silly a rifle was a good choice for self defense. Generally they are used for sport with handguns being better right?
Maybe generally, but in this case you're overgeneralizing. Sure, a bolt action hunting rifle is not going to be the best thing to use to deal with a home intruder. But a relatively compact AR-type rifle isn't a horrible choice (and there are actually AR pistols that people use for this purpose). An AR rifle with a 16" barrel and adjustable stock is pretty compact, you can use a 20 or 30 round mag so you don't run out of ammo like that woman did recently with her revolver. And the 5.56mm round has some awesome stopping power (make bad guy go down fast) while not over-penetrating (not going through solid walls or said bad guy and into your neighbor's house).
QuoteA shotgun would be my weapon of choice, aiming is for suckers.
Drywall is cheap, eh? :D
For me it's a Glock 17 loaded with +P+ hollow point ammo.
Yea but that 180 grain Roundnose Soft Point hitting an intruder at 2700 fps from a 30-06, would be hideous.
Sold off some more ammo & some extra 30-round magazines on auction at grossly inflated prices-- but hey, it's what the market will bear. Profiteering is fun.
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
For me it's a Glock 17 loaded with +P+ hollow point ammo.
I hope you at least keep it in the 115-grain neighborhood.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 01, 2013, 12:46:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
For me it's a Glock 17 loaded with +P+ hollow point ammo.
I hope you at least keep it in the 115-grain neighborhood.
Nope, 147. May switch to 127 once my current stash dries up.
Took my car into the dealership this morning to check the engine light. Overheard the gear heads talking about the spike in gun purchases. One guy said some shop had sold three pallets of AR 15 ammo.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 01, 2013, 12:39:04 PM
Took my car into the dealership this morning to check the engine light. Overheard the gear heads talking about the spike in gun purchases. One guy said some shop had sold three pallets of AR 15 ammo.
And they probably sold out in hours, or even minutes. A distributor near me sold 1.5 million rounds of 5.45x39 ammo (which some guys shoot in specially-configured ARs but it mostly for AK) in an hour & a half late last night. I'm getting ready to go pick up a 1080-round spam can of it I ordered myself, along with 880 rounds of Bulgarian 7.62x54R. That stuff is still cheap so I'm stocking up while it's still available.
No refund policy, either.
QuoteThe man who shot himself at a Timonium gun range Thursday night committed suicide, Baltimore County police said Friday.
Officers were called to the Continental Arms at 9603 Deereco Road shortly after 5 p.m. Thursday for reports of a shooting.
A deceased adult male was found inside of the gun range. Police said he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
I loaded up one of my Beretta mags with JHP ammo this morning. Why? Because I can. AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
Please tell me this spike in prices isn't applying to hunting rifles. I'm finally in a position to start seriously looking for one, but I'm not paying an arm and a leg for one. :glare:
Nope, it's limited to scary stuff people are afraid will be banned. Nobody is going after boring hunting rifles. If anything there seem to be deals to be had.
Quote from: derspiess on February 01, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
Nope, it's limited to scary stuff people are afraid will be banned. Nobody is going after boring hunting rifles. If anything there seem to be deals to be had.
It is totally ridiculous. A tiny miniscule amount of deaths occur due to the weapons the politicians want banned.
Quote from: derspiess on February 01, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
Nope, it's limited to scary stuff people are afraid will be banned. Nobody is going after boring hunting rifles. If anything there seem to be deals to be had.
:w00t:
2013 Goal: buy hunting rifle, practice often, bag deer. :yeah:
Quote from: Valmy on February 01, 2013, 02:30:54 PM
ridiculous...politicians
I pared your post down to the most important points. :)
Quote from: Valmy on February 01, 2013, 02:30:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 01, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
Nope, it's limited to scary stuff people are afraid will be banned. Nobody is going after boring hunting rifles. If anything there seem to be deals to be had.
It is totally ridiculous. A tiny miniscule amount of deaths occur due to the weapons the politicians want banned.
It's limited to those things with half a shot at actually getting banned. It's a token law, Valmy. Nothing more; nothing less.
Quote from: merithyn on February 01, 2013, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 01, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
Nope, it's limited to scary stuff people are afraid will be banned. Nobody is going after boring hunting rifles. If anything there seem to be deals to be had.
:w00t:
2013 Goal: buy hunting rifle, practice often, bag deer. :yeah:
You forgot the next part - dress the deer. :x :x
Quote from: Barrister on February 01, 2013, 02:41:04 PM
You forgot the next part - dress the deer. :x :x
My 9 year old nephew is pretty good at that. :P
Finnished up the Remington M700. Put a new trigger and dropped it in a B&C Alaskan Ti stock.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg824%2F1102%2Fm700.jpg&hash=84cb6d1802147a54cb4b9e337cfd0cd0a7cb7171)
Just shipped this 1926 Polish Small Ring M98 barreled action to ER Shaw Custom barrels. It will get a new barrel put on in 6.5x55 Swedish. The trigger guard will be used as a paperweight. I have a much nicer one on hand.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg811%2F476%2Fp1010072u.jpg&hash=62baeac7c3eaf3de8ed1621f8361660469f1b63e)
Quote from: Barrister on February 01, 2013, 02:41:04 PM
You forgot the next part - dress the deer. :x :x
I didn't forget. :)
Not a problem for me. I've dressed lots o' animals. A deer is just a little bigger than I'm used to, but I can't imagine it being all that much worse than a pig or a goat.
Quote from: merithyn on February 01, 2013, 03:08:10 PM
A deer is just a little bigger than I'm used to, but I can't imagine it being all that much worse than a pig or a goat.
This.
he he
Quote from: 11B4V on February 01, 2013, 03:07:15 PM
Finnished up the Remington M700. Put a new trigger and dropped it in a B&C Alaskan Ti stock.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg824%2F1102%2Fm700.jpg&hash=84cb6d1802147a54cb4b9e337cfd0cd0a7cb7171)
Just shipped this 1926 Polish Small Ring M98 barreled action to ER Shaw Custom barrels. It will get a new barrel put on in 6.5x55 Swedish. The trigger guard will be used as a paperweight. I have a much nicer one on hand.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg811%2F476%2Fp1010072u.jpg&hash=62baeac7c3eaf3de8ed1621f8361660469f1b63e)
Nice. Trigger guards/mag floorplates seem to have taken the most abuse on those old rifles. I have a couple Turk Mauser receivers I put away for projects.
Quote from: merithyn on February 01, 2013, 03:08:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 01, 2013, 02:41:04 PM
You forgot the next part - dress the deer. :x :x
I didn't forget. :)
Not a problem for me. I've dressed lots o' animals. A deer is just a little bigger than I'm used to, but I can't imagine it being all that much worse than a pig or a goat.
Fair enough. :)
I'd like to hunt. I think I could probably manage the shooting part, but I'd be lost at how to dress it (and a little bit grossed out).
Quote from: derspiess on February 01, 2013, 03:19:31 PM
Nice. Trigger guards/mag floorplates seem to have taken the most abuse on those old rifles. I have a couple Turk Mauser receivers I put away for projects.
Mauser barrels are among the easiest to replace. Excellent basis for a hunting rifle with the controlled round feed.
My ammo haul today:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1d4ac1cec1295d2d4315-90ef6583188be1d16f88bf1ef8d09832.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com%2Faim%2Fproduct%2Fa76254b6.jpg&hash=0c7bd03a9d609ec231f4022615639e4b9168d312)
which contained 2 cans of this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1d4ac1cec1295d2d4315-90ef6583188be1d16f88bf1ef8d09832.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com%2Faim%2Fproduct%2Fa76254b.jpg&hash=ade26eb237fa48e5e8572bb944bd08cb7e3c5268)
each of which contained 440 rounds of 1970s vintage Bulgarian 7.62x54R that looks like it was made yesterday:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1d4ac1cec1295d2d4315-90ef6583188be1d16f88bf1ef8d09832.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com%2Faim%2Fproduct%2Fa76254str4.jpg&hash=0ac4903530ae871de63313e7664841f5a7924830)
I also got the 1080 rounds of Russian surplus 5.45x39:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1d4ac1cec1295d2d4315-90ef6583188be1d16f88bf1ef8d09832.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com%2Faim%2Fproduct%2Fa54539r.jpg&hash=bdde447a53225103de4282f96c82293b37f7eb1e)
And that was about the only cheaply-priced ammo on the market today.
Nice :cheers:
The Obamer shooting a little skeet.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunandgame.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Fpowder-keg%2F57756d1359844064-official-photo-obummer-shooting-skeet-bomaskeet.jpg&hash=0ed1671ed6bf06e84d6bb3335027ec10541c7eee)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2013, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: citizen k on January 30, 2013, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: Scipio on January 30, 2013, 07:31:14 PM
Lots of gang-related shootings in the 'burg.
What gang are you in?
Mississippi Bar Association.
We don't roll as hard as those fuckers in Accounts Payable, but we're pretty hardcore. And we've got a built-in lobby.
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
<_< I wear my watches on my left hand as well.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 02, 2013, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
<_< I wear my watches on my left hand as well.
RH and watch on my right hand...... :blurgh:
Watch goes on your opposite wrist, plebs. :angry:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 03, 2013, 03:30:15 AM
Watch goes on your opposite wrist, plebs. :angry:
But it feels weird, just like anything else I try to do right handed.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 02, 2013, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
<_< I wear my watches on my left hand as well.
Snap on both counts; I think as a child I must have decide it was more efficient that way and stuck with it, but can't remember the reasoning.
Right handed, wear my watch on me left wrist, and with the watch face on the underside of the wrist as well. :sleep:
Quote from: The Brain on February 01, 2013, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 01, 2013, 03:08:10 PM
A deer is just a little bigger than I'm used to, but I can't imagine it being all that much worse than a pig or a goat.
This.
:lol:
Kinda funny that this became our gun fetish thread.
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2013, 08:27:39 PM
Kinda funny that this became our gun fetish thread.
"Fetish"
...I don't think anyone here actually worships their guns...
I use mine during sex.
Quote from: PDH on February 03, 2013, 08:46:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2013, 08:27:39 PM
Kinda funny that this became our gun fetish thread.
"Fetish"
...I don't think anyone here actually worships their guns...
I'm not quite as sure as you are :D
Quote from: HVC on February 03, 2013, 08:49:02 PM
"Fetish"
...I don't think anyone here actually worships their guns...
I'm not quite as sure as you are :D
[/quote]
:lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 03, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on February 03, 2013, 08:49:02 PM
"Fetish"
...I don't think anyone here actually worships their guns...
I'm not quite as sure as you are :D
:lol:
[/quote]
ROTFL
[ /q uote]]
Blame the iPad of iPain, derbullethead. :P
Just learned that my niece bought a gun.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2013, 11:16:59 AM
Just learned that my niece bought a gun.
How old is she? Has she been given any training?
Quote from: derspiess on February 05, 2013, 11:26:55 AM
How old is she? Has she been given any training?
Just out of college. I've been told that she was coached up by an uncle, who was an instructor at sniper school. No worries on that count.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 05, 2013, 11:26:55 AM
How old is she? Has she been given any training?
Just out of college. I've been told that she was coached up by an uncle, who was an instructor at sniper school. No worries on that count.
Sounds all tickety-boo, then.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
That's the proper way. RW watch is for weirdos & gays.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
who was an instructor at sniper school. No worries on that count.
Not if you read Marti's sniper thread.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2013, 01:29:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
who was an instructor at sniper school. No worries on that count.
Not if you read Marti's sniper thread.
only thing worse is former bail bondsmen.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
We just had a big discussion about the left-handed thing. Something like five of the last seven US presidents have been left-handed, and in the last three elections, all of the major candidates on the ballot were left-handed. Not only that, but it appears to be a uniquely American thing to have so many lefties in the highest office.
Quote from: merithyn on February 05, 2013, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
We just had a big discussion about the left-handed thing. Something like five of the last seven US presidents have been left-handed, and in the last three elections, all of the major candidates on the ballot were left-handed. Not only that, but it appears to be a uniquely American thing to have so many lefties in the highest office.
Do you see a pattern, because quite a few of us on this forum are also left-handed. :ph34r:
Left handedness is sign of the Devil!
or you are an Alien pod person.
Quote from: katmai on February 05, 2013, 01:55:09 PM
Left handedness is sign of the Devil!
or you are an Alien pod person.
It's too late, we've taken over. :cthulu: :tinfoil: :ph34r: :area52:
Quote from: merithyn on February 05, 2013, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on February 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Obama is left handed?
E: his watch is on his left wrist though. Weirdo.
We just had a big discussion about the left-handed thing. Something like five of the last seven US presidents have been left-handed, and in the last three elections, all of the major candidates on the ballot were left-handed. Not only that, but it appears to be a uniquely American thing to have so many lefties in the highest office.
My nephew is left-handed and it threw us all for a loop as nobody on either side of the family could think of any relative who was or is a lefty. Dunno which Tommy is yet. My parents like to say he's ambidextrous, but I take the less doting approach and say he's just indecisive :)
Quote from: merithyn on February 05, 2013, 01:47:41 PM
Something like five of the last seven US presidents have been left-handed, and in the last three elections, all of the major candidates on the ballot were left-handed.
I did feel that there was something particularly evil about the candidates recently.
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2013, 03:22:24 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 05, 2013, 01:47:41 PM
Something like five of the last seven US presidents have been left-handed, and in the last three elections, all of the major candidates on the ballot were left-handed.
I did feel that there was something particularly evil about the candidates recently.
They're certainly sinister. :mellow:
Sorry but I'm not your puppet.
So I have to gather some documentation for the CMP to get my M1 Garand and I haven't found a 1911 at a decent price. Wanted to get something new in the meantime, so I picked up one of these ugly mofos at AIM last Thursday. Romanian Tokarev in 7.62x25mm.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8242%2F8459547843_bddfc2bd6a_z.jpg&hash=2a82d7f37b1449413a78a8406194add2568f233c)
Not much on looks but it's in great condition and really well-made.
I'm sure the little Missus will appreciate the ambiance it'll bring to Stalin Purge Night.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2013, 01:38:19 PM
I'm sure the little Missus will appreciate the ambiance it'll bring to Stalin Purge Night.
I felt lost after I sold off that Soviet-made Nagant pistol (the one and only revolver I ever owned btw).
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2013, 01:38:19 PM
I'm sure the little Missus will appreciate the ambiance it'll bring to Stalin Purge Night.
The Soviets actually preferred German guns for those kind of things.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2013, 06:16:37 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2013, 01:38:19 PM
I'm sure the little Missus will appreciate the ambiance it'll bring to Stalin Purge Night.
The Soviets actually preferred German guns for those kind of things.
And the Germans preferred some Soviet guns. Funny how that worked out.
Finally got my membership to the local rifle & pistol club so I have a rifle & outdoor pistol range close by. So with my day off yesterday I shot some of my last bit of 7.62x25 ammo the Romanian Tokarev. Nice little fireball shoots out the muzzle. Not the most accurate thing at 25m but it's good enough, and is balanced a lot better than it looks. I forgot the Yugoslavian ammo had such hard primers, so some rounds took a couple strikes to fire.
I had also bought some Wolf 9x19 ammo because it was cheap. I used it in my Glock 17 at the plinking range to shoot plastic juice bottles & milk jugs filled with water. Had a few failures to feed-- serves me right for trying to use steel-cased ammo I guess. Going to burn through the last 2 boxes next time out & then never again. I never, ever had any problems with brass-cased ammo.
I've never had a single FTF with the Glock 19 and I've shot some steels through it, though it's been a while... pretty much always use brass casings now (my father-in-law gave me some of the former).
Quote from: derspiess on February 19, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
I had also bought some Wolf 9x19 ammo because it was cheap. I used it in my Glock 17 at the plinking range to shoot plastic juice bottles & milk jugs filled with water. Had a few failures to feed-- serves me right for trying to use steel-cased ammo I guess. Going to burn through the last 2 boxes next time out & then never again. I never, ever had any problems with brass-cased ammo.
Cheap is as cheap does. And I bet the powder's a frigging mess to clean as well.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2013, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 19, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
I had also bought some Wolf 9x19 ammo because it was cheap. I used it in my Glock 17 at the plinking range to shoot plastic juice bottles & milk jugs filled with water. Had a few failures to feed-- serves me right for trying to use steel-cased ammo I guess. Going to burn through the last 2 boxes next time out & then never again. I never, ever had any problems with brass-cased ammo.
Cheap is as cheap does. And I bet the powder's a frigging mess to clean as well.
Actually it shot rather clean. The consensus seems to be that the "old" Wolf 9mm ammo (green-colored steel case) was dirty. This stuff (grey case) wasn't that bad. I hear horrible things about that Tulammo & wouldn't shoot it in anything except maybe an AK.
I found this stuff for $10/box of 50 and I hadn't seen that price for ammo in a long time. I miss the good old days where I could get good quality S&B at a local shop for less than $8.
Well, avoid PMC. Steel casings AND crappy powder.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2013, 03:37:10 PM
Well, avoid PMC. Steel casings AND crappy powder.
Their X-TAC 5.56mm ammo is actually quite good.
I wouldn't know about their long gun ammo. Because I'm not a psychopathic nutter.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2013, 03:46:37 PM
I wouldn't know about their long gun ammo. Because I'm not a psychopathic nutter.
I thought psychopaths still tended to prefer handguns.
I didn't say I wasn't a psychopath, just not a psychopathic nutter. There's a difference.
Well I never said you were a psychopath. Sociopath maybe, but not a psycho :P
I've found myself talking to the cat a lot more often these days.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2013, 04:24:20 PM
I've found myself talking to the cat a lot more often these days.
Is the cat talking back to you?
:ph34r:
I used to talk to my cat and I even developed a voice for him to reply to me with. My cat had an extremely foul mouth. :blush:
*shaking my head*
:lol:
Okay.... it's that time.
I'm looking at a Mossburg 500 12-gauge shotgun to hunt deer. Probably get it at the local sporting goods store, Dick's.
Thoughts? :unsure:
Good Lord.
Quote from: merithyn on February 22, 2013, 11:09:39 PM
Okay.... it's that time.
I'm looking at a Mossburg 500 12-gauge shotgun to hunt deer. Probably get it at the local sporting goods store, Dick's.
Thoughts? :unsure:
What price do they have on it?
$350
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2013, 11:14:04 PM
Good Lord.
What? :unsure:
You realize that I'll use every bit of the deer, right? From the leather to the hooves, I have a plan for all of it. And where I live, deer are vermin. They are seriously problematic in this area, they're so prolific. Better that I hunt my own food than that I accept factory-fed beef, right?
Quote from: merithyn on February 22, 2013, 11:16:54 PM
$350
Sounds like a good price. Might want to check Walmart's price just to be sure but that looks fair.
Quote from: derspiess on February 22, 2013, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 22, 2013, 11:16:54 PM
$350
Sounds like a good price. Might want to check Walmart's price just to be sure but that looks fair.
Walmart doesn't have it. At least, no Walmart within 50 miles of me carries it.
Dicks it is, then.
Quote from: merithyn on February 22, 2013, 11:09:39 PM
Okay.... it's that time.
I'm looking at a Mossburg 500 12-gauge shotgun to hunt deer. Probably get it at the local sporting goods store, Dick's.
Thoughts? :unsure:
Thoughts? Learn to spell Mossberg! Nothing Swedish is sacred it seems.
Quote from: The Brain on February 23, 2013, 02:09:12 AM
Quote from: merithyn on February 22, 2013, 11:09:39 PM
Okay.... it's that time.
I'm looking at a Mossburg 500 12-gauge shotgun to hunt deer. Probably get it at the local sporting goods store, Dick's.
Thoughts? :unsure:
Thoughts? Learn to spell Mossberg! Nothing Swedish is sacred it seems.
Dick's, that makes more sense than Dicks........DS :XD:
I didnt catch Merri's post when she mentioned Dick's, which is different than Dicks as you used. Dick's is a possessive, I guess, but in her case it is a store called Dick's. Dicks how you used at the beginning of a sentences, could mean, multiple Dicks, i.e a group of people being called Dicks. But your use would imply means multiple phallic things in which case I would refer someone to Marty.
@ Meri
:hmm: You sure it's legal to hunt deer with shotguns where you live? I don't think it's legal here. Gonna check on that.
I bet Illinois has some anal hunting rules also. God, I hate that state.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 23, 2013, 08:30:58 AM
I bet Illinois has some anal hunting rules also. God, I hate that state.
WTF
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2013, 08:14:32 AM
@ Meri
:hmm: You sure it's legal to hunt deer with shotguns where you live? I don't think it's legal here. Gonna check on that.
Shotguns = legal. Rifles = not legal.
Yes, I've looked into it.
:wacko: Illinois... yes, get the hell out of there.
Quote from: merithyn on February 23, 2013, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2013, 08:14:32 AM
@ Meri
:hmm: You sure it's legal to hunt deer with shotguns where you live? I don't think it's legal here. Gonna check on that.
Shotguns = legal. Rifles = not legal.
Yes, I've looked into it.
Ohio is the same way.
Quote from: Caliga on February 23, 2013, 10:20:47 AM
:wacko: Illinois... yes, get the hell out of there.
I believe it's also legal here to hunt deer with handguns.
I wanna go somewhere where it is legal to hunt Caliga.
Quote from: katmai on February 23, 2013, 03:37:14 PM
I wanna go somewhere where it is legal to hunt Caliga.
Don't worry, his accidental discharge would get him before you do.
If you can't hunt deer with a .30-30, you can't hunt deer.
Quote from: Scipio on February 23, 2013, 05:45:16 PM
If you can't hunt deer with a .30-30, you can't hunt deer.
That's debatable. What's not debatable is that there are much better calibers for taking down a deer.
Such as .50 cal.
Good for taking down Taliban. Why not.
Don't have to worry about processing the deer meat later with that. Do it right in the field.
:lmfao:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=389545481143180&set=vb.166367050127692&type=2&theater
"Ow, Allen!!"
That vid is priceless Biden moronics. Why couldnt he be pres? Comedy gold.
and the hotties love the guns.
Oh and I bought a 5.45x39 AR upper today. With 5.56x45 so insanely priced, Russian surplus 5.45 is still cheap.
Quote from: derspiess on March 01, 2013, 10:59:08 PM
Oh and I bought a 5.45x39 AR upper today. With 5.56x45 so insanely priced, Russian surplus 5.45 is still cheap.
Good score
Quote from: 11B4V on March 01, 2013, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 01, 2013, 10:59:08 PM
Oh and I bought a 5.45x39 AR upper today. With 5.56x45 so insanely priced, Russian surplus 5.45 is still cheap.
Good score
It's a bit of irony, shooting a commie round in a good old American rifle.
QuoteA second-grade student at an Anne Arundel County elementary school was suspended for two days after school officials accused him of biting into a breakfast pastry and turning it into the shape of a gun.
The incident on Friday at Park Elementary School, in Brooklyn Park, prompted school officials to send a letter home to parents regarding the incident.
"During breakfast this morning, one of our students used food to make inappropriate gestures that disrupted the class," said the letter, which was also posted on the schools' website. "While no physical threats were made and no one was harmed, the student had to be removed from the classroom."
The letter said the school system's student handbook outlines the system's Code of Conduct policy, as well as consequences students face when codes of conduct are violated.
The letter said Anne Arundel County Public Schools' procedures were followed "to address the student's actions and communicate with the student's family." It also encouraged parents to discuss the incident with their children and that the school's counselor would be available this week to meet with students on the matter as well.
The posting stated that the letter was written by Park assistant principal Myrna Phillips.
Anne Arundel schools spokesman Bob Mosier said Monday the pastry in question was a breakfast bar that was "part of the school wide breakfast program that is served daily at Park Elementary." He declined to comment further.
Neither the student nor his parents could immediately be reached for comment.
That kid's a menace! Tommy likes making Star Wars-type "guns" out of his blocks. I've reminded him a few times not to do anything like that at his pre-school just to avoid any of this silliness. He kept asking me why & I had no easy answer. I finally just told him some people at schools are just weird about stuff like that.
IIRC, my dad's high school had a shooting range in the basement.
Ah West Virginia!
Quote from: katmai on March 04, 2013, 03:47:32 PM
Ah West Virginia!
I think they even used migrant workers as target holders.
:lol:
NRA Sponsoring NASCAR Texas race. I'm sure MSNBC's panties just got into a wad.
I bought some Serbian ammunition. Was the only decent 9mm brass-cased FMJ stuff that wasn't criminally priced (just likely made by criminals- ha).
Each box has its own little track suit.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 05, 2013, 01:31:29 PM
Each box has its own little track suit.
Lol, track suit ammo box cozy.
South Dakota Law Lets Teachers Carry Gun in Class
'South Dakota is believed to be the first state to pass a law that specifically allows teachers to carry firearms.'
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/us/south-dakota-gun-law-classrooms.html
Quote from: Phillip V on March 08, 2013, 12:32:15 PM
South Dakota Law Lets Teachers Carry Gun in Class
'South Dakota is believed to be the first state to pass a law that specifically allows teachers to carry firearms.'
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/us/south-dakota-gun-law-classrooms.html
They wont be the last.
Good for the State of SD. State's rights victory.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 05, 2013, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 01:33:33 PM
Lol, track suit ammo box cozy.
I LOL'd.
One of the newer accountants here is I think a Serbian dude and I thought about making a track suit joke to him today (as in "It's casual Friday, where's your track suit?") but didn't know if he'd stab me or anything so I held back. :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on March 08, 2013, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 05, 2013, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 01:33:33 PM
Lol, track suit ammo box cozy.
I LOL'd.
One of the newer accountants here is I think a Serbian dude and I thought about making a track suit joke to him today (as in "It's casual Friday, where's your track suit?") but didn't know if he'd stab me or anything so I held back. :hmm:
Wear one yourself next Friday and note his reaction.
Graf & Sons finally got my shipment of three cans of IMR 4007ssc powder out. Two months later. :mad:
Pretty shitty when even reloading supplies are unobtanium. I'm still keeping all my boxer primed brass but haven't bought any reloading stuff yet.
Why has the cost of ammo gone up so much?
Panic, gouging maybe. I havent noticed much of a price increase in the non mainstream stuff I buy.
I ordered some stuff called FrogLube today :ph34r:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shadez-of-gray.com%2Fproduct_images%2Fuploaded_images%2Ffrog-lube-review.jpg&hash=9b3076bf481ae6bf61e3992d6328f43377538434)
Ka-ching-- 2160 rounds of 1980-vintage Russian 7n6 5.45x39mm ammo.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8515%2F8575428949_c59786dcdc_z.jpg&hash=c75ccb93b587771bc775e3b1f4fd4d2969b0f3a7)
For some guys this would last about 3 range trips. For me this is probably a couple year's worth.
I'm surprised nobody's ejaculating over the death of the assault weapons ban.
Then again, was it really surprising anyway?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 20, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
I'm surprised nobody's ejaculating over the death of the assault weapons ban.
Then again, was it really surprising anyway?
I'm surprised it got so much coverage yesterday-- its failure was inevitable. It wouldn't pass a full Senate vote, let alone the House. Even if enough Dems voted for it, it would hurt them in 2014. It was just a matter of when Reid would kill it.
I did like hearing Dianne tell me how it wouldn't ban every single gun and that there would still be some left for me to choose from :D
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 20, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
I'm surprised nobody's ejaculating over the death of the assault weapons ban.
Then again, was it really surprising anyway?
:lol: Did you expect it to pass?
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 12:53:50 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 20, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
I'm surprised nobody's ejaculating over the death of the assault weapons ban.
Then again, was it really surprising anyway?
:lol: Did you expect it to pass?
No, I did not. I expect no true reforms in gun control whatsoever. I've told you that before, bullethead.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 21, 2013, 08:11:02 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 12:53:50 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 20, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
I'm surprised nobody's ejaculating over the death of the assault weapons ban.
Then again, was it really surprising anyway?
:lol: Did you expect it to pass?
No, I did not. I expect no true reforms in gun control whatsoever. I've told you that before, bullethead.
I bet you get your "OMG gunshow loophole" closed.
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2013, 09:06:36 AM
I bet you get your "OMG gunshow loophole" closed.
Nah. Unenforceable.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 21, 2013, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2013, 09:06:36 AM
I bet you get your "OMG gunshow loophole" closed.
Nah. Unenforceable.
A lot of gun laws are difficult to enforce. But a majority of gun-owners follow them out of fear.
Just curious, but have any of you guys ever actually been able to buy a gun at a show without a background check? They checked me every time.
Never tried. Gun shows annoy me.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
Never tried. Gun shows annoy me.
Normally overpriced that I've seen.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
Never tried. Gun shows annoy me.
Normally overpriced that I've seen.
That and the Das reich t shirts for sale. It is like wargamers, except skinnier.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2013, 07:25:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
Never tried. Gun shows annoy me.
Normally overpriced that I've seen.
That and the Das reich t shirts for sale. It is like wargamers, except skinnier.
Das Reich. Get it right Untermensch
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 10:36:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2013, 07:25:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2013, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
Never tried. Gun shows annoy me.
Normally overpriced that I've seen.
That and the Das reich t shirts for sale. It is like wargamers, except skinnier.
Das Reich. Get it right Untermensch
MEIN IPAD IST DEFECTIVE BRIGADEFUHRER!
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 21, 2013, 06:43:33 PM
Just curious, but have any of you guys ever actually been able to buy a gun at a show without a background check? They checked me every time.
Never bought one at a gun show. I can think of several I should have bought, and but I've only actually bought ammo & drinking accessories.
And I always feel like I need to take another shower after I leave, FWIW.
Picked up a thousand rounds of 7.62 so I can go to the range this year. Paid in silver too. I knew I'd find a use for that crap. :lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 28, 2013, 09:02:56 AM
Picked up a thousand rounds of 7.62 so I can go to the range this year. Paid in silver too. I knew I'd find a use for that crap. :lol:
How bad did you get screwed on the price? 'Cuz there are just two places I know of that you can buy from (if you get to them quickly enough when they get it in stock) that don't rape you on price these days.
side-note: Never thought I'd be stoked to know someone who works at Wal-Mart :ph34r:
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2013, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 28, 2013, 09:02:56 AM
Picked up a thousand rounds of 7.62 so I can go to the range this year. Paid in silver too. I knew I'd find a use for that crap. :lol:
How bad did you get screwed on the price? 'Cuz there are just two places I know of that you can buy from (if you get to them quickly enough when they get it in stock) that don't rape you on price these days.
side-note: Never thought I'd be stoked to know someone who works at Wal-Mart :ph34r:
12 ounces of silver. As you can tell, I didn't buy it in a store. :ph34r:
Beretta PX4 Storm mags are FINALLY starting to show up in stock again. One is on the way to Cal. :cool:
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 28, 2013, 09:15:47 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2013, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 28, 2013, 09:02:56 AM
Picked up a thousand rounds of 7.62 so I can go to the range this year. Paid in silver too. I knew I'd find a use for that crap. :lol:
How bad did you get screwed on the price? 'Cuz there are just two places I know of that you can buy from (if you get to them quickly enough when they get it in stock) that don't rape you on price these days.
side-note: Never thought I'd be stoked to know someone who works at Wal-Mart :ph34r:
12 ounces of silver. As you can tell, I didn't buy it in a store. :ph34r:
Oh, you actually used silver for payment. Awesome.
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2013, 09:21:13 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 28, 2013, 09:15:47 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2013, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 28, 2013, 09:02:56 AM
Picked up a thousand rounds of 7.62 so I can go to the range this year. Paid in silver too. I knew I'd find a use for that crap. :lol:
How bad did you get screwed on the price? 'Cuz there are just two places I know of that you can buy from (if you get to them quickly enough when they get it in stock) that don't rape you on price these days.
side-note: Never thought I'd be stoked to know someone who works at Wal-Mart :ph34r:
12 ounces of silver. As you can tell, I didn't buy it in a store. :ph34r:
Oh, you actually used silver for payment. Awesome.
It was Raz's nightmare transaction. :lol:
I finally found some actual 5.45x39 magazines I can use in my 5.45 AR. Both times I took that to the range I had to load about 18 or 19 rounds into a 5.56x45 mag and hope I didn't get feed problems.
And to go along with my Serbian 9mm ammo I bought a Serbian-made new production Tokarev pistol in 9mm. Looks about as ugly as Tokarevs usually look, but it's in nice, new condition. A brand new 9mm pistol for $239-- awesomeness :D Finding spare magazines looks like it will be a bitch, though.
Btw Ed what brand of ammo did you get? Or was it surplus?
I had some surplus East German stuff I never fired because it was corrosive (which isn't the end of the world but I'm too lazy to clean after it in a semi-auto rifle). I sold it a few weeks ago for over $1 per round :)
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2013, 04:44:40 PM
Btw Ed what brand of ammo did you get? Or was it surplus?
I had some surplus East German stuff I never fired because it was corrosive (which isn't the end of the world but I'm too lazy to clean after it in a semi-auto rifle). I sold it a few weeks ago for over $1 per round :)
It was a mix. Wolf and some othe brands. I'd have to get them out of the safe to check.
Was just curious. Wolf always shot great in my old AK & SKS. The TulAmmo stuff I shot was very dirty.
:o
Quote
Arsenal of weapons found in Newtown gunman's home
by Associated Press
Posted on March 28, 2013 at 7:16 AM
Updated today at 7:19 AM
NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- An arsenal of weapons including guns, a gun safe with shotgun shells, a bayonet and several swords were found in the home and car of the gunman who carried out the Newtown school shooting, according to search warrants released Thursday.
Adam Lanza killed 26 people inside Sandy Hook Elementary School and took his own life within five minutes of shooting his way into the building, State's Attorney Stephen J. Sedensky III said in a statement accompanying the release of the warrants in the Dec. 14 massacre. Lanza was found dead in the school wearing military-style clothing.
The extensive inventory of the evidence seized from Lanza's home and the car he drove to carry out the massacre provided glimpses into the world of the reclusive gunman. Prosecutors until now had made few details available, despite pressure to do so from the governor, who criticized leaks to the press and lawmakers who clamored for more details as they craft legislation on mental health and gun control.
Sedensky says Lanza killed all 26 victims inside Sandy Hook Elementary School with a Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle before taking his own life with a Glock 10 mm handgun. He says Lanza had another loaded handgun with him inside the school as well as three, 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster.
A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds.
At the house, investigator found books about autism and Asperger's syndrome as well as an NRA guide to pistol shooting.
Police said they found a smashed computer hard drive, a gaming console and a gun safe in Lanza's bedroom. An unnamed source told investigators that Lanza was an avid gamer who played "Call of Duty" and other games and rarely left his home.
Investigators found articles on other shootings and a holiday card containing a check made out to Adam Lanza for the purchase of a firearm, authored by his mother, Nancy Lanza.
Documents indicate authorities found a brown gun safe with shotgun shells and numerous boxes of bullets. In a bedroom closet, they found ear plugs, a handwritten note regarding ammunition and magazines, paperwork on guns and a metal bayonet.
In a top drawer of a filing cabinet, they found paper targets. In a duffel bag, they found ear and eye protection, binoculars, numerous paper targets and Lanza's NRA certificate.
Authorities found numerous knives, including samurai swords. They found a military-style uniform in Lanza's bedroom and handwritten notes containing the addresses of local gun shops.
A Danbury Superior Court judge on Wednesday granted a request by Sedensky, the prosecutor overseeing the investigation, to withhold some details. Sedensky asked to redact the name of a witness, saying the person's safety might be jeopardized if the name were disclosed. He also asked that the release not include other information such as telephone numbers, serial numbers on items found and a few paragraphs of an affidavit.
Authorities have said it will take until June or later for the investigation to be completed.
The Associated Press and other news outlets have reported previously that Lanza showed interest in other mass killings and authorities found literature on other massacres at his house.
Malloy announced last week that additional information would be released at his request. He expressed concern that some information about the shooting rampage at Sandy Hook reportedly disclosed by a top state police commander at a recent law enforcement seminar in New Orleans was leaked.
"Like many others, I was disappointed and angered to learn that certain information about the Newtown shooting had been leaked, specifically with concern for the victims' families who may have been hearing this news for the first time," the governor said in a statement.
A column published last week in the New York Daily News, citing an unnamed police officer who attended the seminar, reported that Col. Daniel Stebbins discussed evidence that suggested the Newtown gunman studied other mass slayings and dedicated extensive planning to the rampage.
The seminar was designed for only law enforcement professionals, and sensitive information dealing with the tactical approaches used by first responders to the Sandy Hook shootings was discussed, state police spokesman Lt. J. Paul Vance said.
Senate President Donald E. Williams Jr. said this week that legislative leaders hope to review the search warrant documents before finishing work on a bipartisan bill that addresses gun control and other issues related to the massacre.
Point me to the shotgun that fits in a glove box and takes magazines. And 70-round ones at that.
:lmfao:
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2013, 05:52:32 PM
Was just curious. Wolf always shot great in my old AK & SKS. The TulAmmo stuff I shot was very dirty.
It's cool. None of it was in the green tins with track suit cozies like you get. :P
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 28, 2013, 06:49:15 PM
Point me to the shotgun that fits in a glove box and takes magazines. And 70-round ones at that.
:lmfao:
and Winchester 12 ga. rounds at that....... :o
Reporters are, as we know, incompetant. So, one has to wonder whether they screwed up the gun details, the car details, or both?
Wasn't the shotgun they're talking about some sort of shitty Russian shotgun that doesn't look like a shotgun, but more like a big-bore SKS or something?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 28, 2013, 11:08:05 PM
Wasn't the shotgun they're talking about some sort of shitty Russian shotgun that doesn't look like a shotgun, but more like a big-bore SKS or something?
I've seen 20 rd drums, but 70? :lol:
Here's an itemized list of all the shit found in his house and on his person at Sandy Hook.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/newtown-search-warrant-items/?hpid=z2
I dont see anything that I would raise an eyebrow at in the ammo department. Applied to a normal person that is. He is rather lacking in 5.56mm ammo even including the ones he expended.
You people are weird.
What do YOU mean by you people?
The gun forums are abuzz over the Enfield he had. Gun nerds. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 28, 2013, 11:08:05 PM
Wasn't the shotgun they're talking about some sort of shitty Russian shotgun that doesn't look like a shotgun, but more like a big-bore SKS or something?
The Saiga is AK-based and is magazine-fed, but there's nothing close to 70 round magazines for it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 29, 2013, 07:56:44 AM
The gun forums are abuzz over the Enfield he had. Gun nerds. :lol:
Yes, stupid police. It's not .323 caliber.
Speaking of stupid...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/03/co_democrat_doesnt_understand_high-capacity_magazines_can_be_reloaded.html
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Speaking of stupid...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/03/co_democrat_doesnt_understand_high-capacity_magazines_can_be_reloaded.html
Lolwut
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Speaking of stupid...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/03/co_democrat_doesnt_understand_high-capacity_magazines_can_be_reloaded.html
Let be a reason why they fail.
So Dad's decided he's getting rid of some stuff in a fit of retirement downsizing, so I'm getting:
--another .357 S&W Model 66 with a 2 1/4" barrel, same as the one I already have; shame I'm not a bail bondsman anymore, I'd roll with a dual shoulder holster config.
--his .357 S&W Model 640; damned shrouded hammers. Nice little backup piece, though.
--and my personal heirloom, his Colt Cobra .38 Special from his days in the BPD. Fucker's older than I am, and in better shape.
He's keeping his Glock 27 for home defense, as it's the only one whose trigger is still light enough for my poor mother to use if necessary. :lol:
I wouldn't want it anyway. Stupid Glocks.
1970s cop shows called-- they want their guns back <snicker>
Anyway it must be nice to inherit something you actually like. I caught a ton of shit when I mentioned I might sell that useless to me yet valuable .410 skeet gun I inherited from my grandmother. And from my dad I'll have a crappy .30-30 lever action rifle, a cheap old 20 gauge bolt action shotgun, and a .270 deer rifle.
My uncle has a ton of cool stuff that will go to his two sons, neither of which would appreciate it.
Will any of those guns shoot through the door?
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
1970s cop shows called-- they want their guns back <snicker>
:blurgh:
What can I say, it's in my DNA.
And that Colt Cobra is old school, the ejector rod isn't even shrouded. DIETRICH, TAKE HARRIS WITH YOU
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2013, 09:29:00 AM
Will any of those guns shoot through the door?
I'm in Maryland, dude. Even if they could, I'd wind up indicted by a grand jury.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2013, 09:11:00 AM
So Dad's decided he's getting rid of some stuff in a fit of retirement downsizing, so I'm getting:
--another .357 S&W Model 66 with a 2 1/4" barrel, same as the one I already have; shame I'm not a bail bondsman anymore, I'd roll with a dual shoulder holster config.
--his .357 S&W Model 640; damned shrouded hammers. Nice little backup piece, though.
--and my personal heirloom, his Colt Cobra .38 Special from his days in the BPD. Fucker's older than I am, and in better shape.
Nice pieces
Not only would I have enough wheelguns for Wyatt Earp, but enough to go around for Virgil, Morg, and Doc.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2013, 09:54:09 AM
Not only would I have enough wheelguns for Wyatt Earp, but enough to go around for Virgil, Morg, and Doc.
If you can find me a 10-gauge shotgun, I'll be Doc :alberta:
Speaking of wheelguns & cowboys, for shits & gigs I might order one of these. Cheap as hell & cheap to shoot in .22. Gets really good reviews. Would probably end up costing me under $170 after shipping and transfer fee.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritagemfg.com%2Fimages%2Fsite_images%2FRRFeature.jpg&hash=5da7d67654d9b8c1adae4740c520bb66f3f86b9f)
Most of the types of guns I've been looking at have "historical" motives. Things like the M1 Garand, a Single Action Army revolver (I like them westerns), Winchester 1896 lever-action, etc. :P
How difficult do you think it would be to score an M-14? I love those things.
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2013, 11:35:28 AM
Most of the types of guns I've been looking at have "historical" motives. Things like the M1 Garand, a Single Action Army revolver (I like them westerns), Winchester 1896 lever-action, etc. :P
If you havent already, check out Uberti's website. Check out their Richards Conversion, Mason-Richards, and Open Top Conversion.
The Schofield I got a few years back was excellent. I still need to convert the Remington New Army from C & B to .45 Colt.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/168467_1715180290543_4684713_n.jpg)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2013, 11:44:42 AM
How difficult do you think it would be to score an M-14? I love those things.
M1A's (which are almost identical) seem like they can be had. Not for what I'd call cheap, though. Like maybe around $1300-1400.
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2013, 11:35:28 AM
Most of the types of guns I've been looking at have "historical" motives. Things like the M1 Garand, a Single Action Army revolver (I like them westerns), Winchester 1896 lever-action, etc. :P
Looks like I missed the boat on my Civilian Marksmanship Program M1 Garand. They had a run on them and are struggling to fill current orders, let alone restock for new orders. Hopefully they'll be caught up by late-summer.
I'll still probably buy a 1911 whenever I can find a Rock Island Armory GI model in .45 at a decent price. Of course then I'll have to find ammo for it :bleeding:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2013, 11:44:42 AM
How difficult do you think it would be to score an M-14? I love those things.
M-14 impossible unless you have the license. M1a well
http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/659/Guns/Rifles/Springfield-Armory-Rifles/M1A-M14.htm
I'll borrow my dad's Python and you can call me Hutch.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 15, 2013, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2013, 11:44:42 AM
How difficult do you think it would be to score an M-14? I love those things.
M-14 impossible unless you have the license. M1a well
http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/659/Guns/Rifles/Springfield-Armory-Rifles/M1A-M14.htm
Argh, looks like that $1300-1400 range must have been before the current craze.
Also, I'm not a fan of those stubby-looking shorter-barreled "Scout" and "SOCOM" models. The M14/M1A should have a 22" barrel as God intended.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 15, 2013, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2013, 11:44:42 AM
How difficult do you think it would be to score an M-14? I love those things.
M-14 impossible unless you have the license. M1a well
http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/659/Guns/Rifles/Springfield-Armory-Rifles/M1A-M14.htm
Argh, looks like that $1300-1400 range must have been before the current craze.
Also, I'm not a fan of those stubby-looking shorter-barreled "Scout" and "SOCOM" models. The M14/M1A should have a 22" barrel as God intended.
Gots to throw down some bones now. :mad:
and Obama loses again. No emotional blackmail for you.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2013, 05:55:56 PM
and Obama loses again. No emotional blackmail for you.
I think the emotional blackmail stuff has just started.
Jay Mohr is disappointed in you.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2013, 05:55:56 PM
and Obama loses again. No emotional blackmail for you.
Yes, because that's what all of this is about: winning and losing.
Obama seemed genuinely angry at that press conference. Meanwhile Biden was standing next to him with his arms folded and this look on his face like he was gonna beat someone over the head with a bat, lock them in a trunk, filet them with his mom's steak knife, and bury them somewhere in rural Westchester County. :)
QuoteDemocratic Sens. Mark Pryor (Ark.), Max Baucus (Mont.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Mark Begich (Alaska) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) voted against it. Reid supported the measure but voted against it to preserve his ability to bring the measure up again.
GOP Sens. John McCain (Ariz.), Susan Collins (Maine), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.) voted "yes."
The amendment sponsored by Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Toomey appeared to have political momentum last week.
Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/294571-senate-rejects-tougher-background-checks-on-gun-purchases#ixzz2QlY4LwLU
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Barack is gonna choke a bitch.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Fuck him.
He needs to work on other shit (way more important) instead of this. Fuck him, opportunist. He thought it would be easy. Get back on track with the economy and all these folks outta work. Quit passing out your kool-aid, Mr. President.
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
Feinstein's amendment lost 40-60 :lol:
There were some GOP-backed amendments that narrowly lost but I'm sure nobody expected them to get through.
And Manchin voted against the magazine limit amendment even though he had said something about not ever needing that many rounds in his "clip".
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_113_1.htm
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
...yet are rather unenthusiastic in supporting. People want the economy fixed. Only 4% think gun legislation should be the top priority. In fact it's way down on the list.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
Majority? Based on what?
Smoke and Mirrors. Get people back to work.
It's not an either or, you can do both, you know like having foreign and domestic policies at the same time.
Quote from: mongers on April 17, 2013, 07:07:30 PM
It's not an either or, you can to both, you know like having foreign and domestic policies at the same time.
Tell him that. :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
...yet are rather unenthusiastic in supporting. People want the economy fixed. Only 4% think gun legislation should be the top priority. In fact it's way down on the list.
What an interesting way to to spin it. :lol:
Quote from: mongers on April 17, 2013, 07:07:30 PM
It's not an either or, you can do both, you know like having foreign and domestic policies at the same time.
Maybe things are different in Parliament, but over here we have a concept called legislative priorities. It's kind of a zero sum game-- time & political capital spent pushing gun legislation is less than can be put toward economic legislation.
Well then, now that's out of the way the economy should be fixed in three months then.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
...yet are rather unenthusiastic in supporting. People want the economy fixed. Only 4% think gun legislation should be the top priority. In fact it's way down on the list.
What an interesting way to to spin it. :lol:
Okay, Raz. Anyway, it'll explain the lack of popular outrage over the amendment's failure.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:24:31 PM
Well then, now that's out of the way the economy should be fixed in three months then.
Yep. With all them Democrats in the Senate it's a sure thing. Hopefully we'll get more wonderful legislation like Frank-Dodd :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
...yet are rather unenthusiastic in supporting. People want the economy fixed. Only 4% think gun legislation should be the top priority. In fact it's way down on the list.
What an interesting way to to spin it. :lol:
Okay, Raz. Anyway, it'll explain the lack of popular outrage over the amendment's failure.
Define popular outrage.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:24:31 PM
Well then, now that's out of the way the economy should be fixed in three months then.
Yep. With all them Democrats in the Senate it's a sure thing. Hopefully we'll get more wonderful legislation like Frank-Dodd :lol:
You guys still going with blaming barney Frank for everything?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:45:49 PM
Define popular outrage.
No.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:46:18 PM
You guys still going with blaming barney Frank for everything?
He put his name on the bill. Dodd gets half the blame, of course.
C'mon, grows some fucking balls here.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 08:21:20 PM
C'mon, grows some fucking balls here.
Go back to stalking Fahdiz. But leave the broomstick at home, mmkay?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
...yet are rather unenthusiastic in supporting. People want the economy fixed. Only 4% think gun legislation should be the top priority. In fact it's way down on the list.
What an interesting way to to spin it. :lol:
Forgot to list my source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/few-guns-immigration-nation-top-problems.aspx
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 07:24:59 PM
Anyway, it'll explain the lack of popular outrage over the amendment's failure.
There are more people interested in sensible gun control than immigration reform.
The GOP picked the wrong watered-down and marginally effective initiative to shit on. They could've won real points with this one, and still maintain their credentials.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 09:39:35 PM
Forgot to list my source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/few-guns-immigration-nation-top-problems.aspx
LOL, guns are at 4%, and taxes are listed at 2%. So why do the Republicans fight so hard with tooth and nail for something only 2% of Americans see as important?
Oh, wait...that 2% includes the 1%.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 08:40:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 08:21:20 PM
C'mon, grows some fucking balls here.
Go back to stalking Fahdiz. But leave the broomstick at home, mmkay?
Fucker is coming after me.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 06:49:41 PM
Yes, how foolish of him to try to pass laws the majority of Americans want. :rolleyes:
...yet are rather unenthusiastic in supporting. People want the economy fixed. Only 4% think gun legislation should be the top priority. In fact it's way down on the list.
What an interesting way to to spin it. :lol:
Forgot to list my source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/few-guns-immigration-nation-top-problems.aspx
Yeah, okay. So next time anyone brings up something up anything that isn't the economy it's not worth paying attention to because it's not "economy in general". I'll make sure to bring that up sometime.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 09:45:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 08:40:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 17, 2013, 08:21:20 PM
C'mon, grows some fucking balls here.
Go back to stalking Fahdiz. But leave the broomstick at home, mmkay?
Fucker is coming after me.
No, he asked a question based on your original post. Which was a dig against the GOP.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 17, 2013, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 07:24:59 PM
Anyway, it'll explain the lack of popular outrage over the amendment's failure.
There are more people interested in sensible gun control than immigration reform.
The GOP picked the wrong watered-down and marginally effective initiative to shit on. They could've won real points with this one, and still maintain their credentials.
So you think this will hurt then in 2014?
IMO...no not for the GOP
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
So you think this will hurt then in 2014?
I don't necessarily think it'll help, what with, you know, the whole "rebranding" thing and all.
But Christ, they're Senators. It's not like they're looking at the same pressure as those assmonkeys in the House.
You pull a Kyoto on it--give it the "aw, shucks, we tried" with the old Clinton lip bite, look good to the Mommies that buried their kids with ventilated skulls, and not sweat it since it wasn't going to go anywhere in the first place.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 17, 2013, 10:09:15 PM
I don't necessarily think it'll help, what with, you know, the whole "rebranding" thing and all.
:bleeding: In Reince We Trust.
Wow sorta surprised not even the background checks thing went through. I mean that is pretty wild, see how silly you guys were to ever think any actual gun control would pass? I told you. I mean even if it were the Supreme Court already spoke on this issue.
I bet this whole dog and pony show was done just to stir up donations to politicians, guns and gun control always does that big time. The only competing issue for easy cash is abortion.
Quote from: Valmy on April 17, 2013, 10:18:51 PM
Wow sorta surprised not even the background checks thing went through. I mean that is pretty wild, see how silly you guys were to ever think any actual gun control would pass? I told you. I mean even if it were the Supreme Court already spoke on this issue.
So you're surprised but you're also not surprised? :P
QuoteI bet this whole dog and pony show was done just to stir up donations to politicians, guns and gun control always does that big time. The only competing issue for easy cash is abortion.
I'm sure that was part of it, but I don't doubt that the measures' sponsors were completely sincere. And it's worth repeating that some pro-gun amendments were defeated.
The real battles (and lots of money following those battles) are being fought at the state level. Anti-gun types have had some success there, but there are some possible pro-gun advances in red states. Two Americas :mellow:
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 10:27:52 PM
The real battles (and lots of money following those battles) are being fought at the state level. Anti-gun types have had some success there, but there are some possible pro-gun advances in red states. Two Americas :mellow:
The strict get stricter, and the loose get looser. What a way to run a railroad.
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 10:27:52 PM
So you're surprised but you're also not surprised? :P
I am surprised the surveillance state stuff did not get passed. That usually has bipartisan support. I guess that so long as guns are involved somehow the Constitution wins :P
And Reid has officially pulled the bill, while making defiant statements of course.
:huh:
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2013/04/missouri-house-votes-to-nullify-all-federal-gun-control-measures-115-42/
QuoteMissouri House Votes to Nullify all Federal Gun Control Measures, 115-42
Today, in the shadows of a pro gun-rights rally at the state capitol, the Missouri House voted to approve House Bill 436 (HB436), the 2nd Amendment Preservation Act, by a strong veto-proof majority.
Earlier this week, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback signed into law what many are calling the strongest state-level protection against federal infringements on the 2nd Amendment in the country. But that title might be short-lived, as Missouri's HB436 (and the companion bill, SB325) up the ante.
The bill, which passed by a vote of 115-42, would nullify virtually all federal gun control measures on the books – "past, present, or future." It reads, in part:
All federal acts, laws, orders, rules, and regulations, whether past, present, or future, which infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution shall be invalid in this state, shall not be recognized by this state, shall be specifically rejected by this state, and shall be considered null and void and of no effect in this state.
(2) Such federal acts, laws, orders, rules, and regulations include, but are not limited to:
(a) The provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1934;
(b) The provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968;
(c) Any tax, levy, fee, or stamp imposed on firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition not common to all other goods and services which could have a chilling effect on the purchase or ownership of those items by law-abiding citizens;
(d) Any registering or tracking of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition which could have a chilling effect on the purchase or ownership of those items by law-abiding citizens;
(e) Any registering or tracking of the owners of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition which could have a chilling effect on the purchase or ownership of those items by law-abiding citizens;
(f) Any act forbidding the possession, ownership, or use or transfer of any type of firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition by law-abiding citizens; and
(g) Any act ordering the confiscation of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition from law-abiding citizens.
Ron Calzone of Missouri First, one of the leading state-level organizations supporting the effort, summed it up. He said, "This is the full-blown nullification of all federal firearms laws which are inherently unconstitutional. This will be the strongest defense of the Second Amendment in the country."
Just a short time before the House vote, a rally of hundreds of people in support of the right to keep and bear arms was held inside the capitol. A number of people were holding signs in support of the legislation, and the companion bill.
That companion bill, SB325 introduced by State Senator Brian Nieves, has already passed the General laws committee in the Senate and will go through a similar process there. Moving both bills simultaneously is an excellent strategy towards passage into law as it will help fast track the measures to the Governor's desk with enough time on the calendar to override his veto. Inside sources say if the committee move the bill forward quickly, a veto-proof majority is attainable with strong grassroots support.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/547740_10200511308656936_217055111_n.jpg)
:lmfao:
Kinder chocolate eggs don't kill people, people kill people.
And besides, Cadbury's eggs are better. :mad:
The girl looks cool holding the assault rifle. :)
So cruise missiles, MLRS, and .50 cal machine guns are legal in Missouri now?
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 19, 2013, 06:11:16 AM
So cruise missiles, MLRS, and .50 cal machine guns are legal in Missouri now?
I think only the machine gun could possibly be classified as 'arms' right? I was not aware we had a right to nuclear arms.
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2013, 07:55:10 AM
I think only the machine gun could possibly be classified as 'arms' right? I was not aware we had a right to nuclear arms.
Senate Majority Leader Wayne LaPierre says you do.
Quote from: Caliga on April 19, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
The girl looks cool holding the assault rifle. :)
Poor trigger discipline however.
Condition Zero. :cool:
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 19, 2013, 06:11:16 AM
So cruise missiles, MLRS, and .50 cal machine guns are legal in Missouri now?
No. They do silly shit like this all the time. Right now they pissed off because the feds got a hold a list of conceal and carry permits given out in Missouri. The Feds wanted to check it against the people getting disability for mental illness. This is their "retaliation".
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 08:36:27 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 19, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
The girl looks cool holding the assault rifle. :)
Poor trigger discipline however.
She probably learned from Feinstein.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftacticalol.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FDiFi1.jpg&hash=d8375ecb6149b7cde81be145b89f7ef72287b200)
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 08:36:27 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 19, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
The girl looks cool holding the assault rifle. :)
Poor trigger discipline however.
That's what I noticed, too. Our NCOs were pretty strict about that.
I'm thinking of vastly increasing my ammo supply. just because.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 09:20:31 AM
I'm thinking of vastly increasing my ammo supply. just because.
http://gunbot.net/ammo/762x39/
And AIM gets crates of 7.62x54R in periodically for what works out to about $.20 a round.
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2013, 09:29:33 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 09:20:31 AM
I'm thinking of vastly increasing my ammo supply. just because.
http://gunbot.net/ammo/762x39/
And AIM gets crates of 7.62x54R in periodically for what works out to about $.20 a round.
:)
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2013, 08:45:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 08:36:27 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 19, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
The girl looks cool holding the assault rifle. :)
Poor trigger discipline however.
She probably learned from Feinstein.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftacticalol.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FDiFi1.jpg&hash=d8375ecb6149b7cde81be145b89f7ef72287b200)
No shit. Gos to a NRA gun safety course witch.
Proper
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc.o0bg.com%2Frf%2Fimage_960w%2FBoston%2F2011-2020%2F2013%2F04%2F19%2FBostonGlobe.com%2FMetro%2FImages%2Fslider_Boghosian_Suspects7_MET.jpg&hash=cd14cea4e00fc52f9035a1218a6fb73e744c2d26)
Lefties are such pussies.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 09:31:20 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 19, 2013, 09:29:33 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 09:20:31 AM
I'm thinking of vastly increasing my ammo supply. just because.
http://gunbot.net/ammo/762x39/
And AIM gets crates of 7.62x54R in periodically for what works out to about $.20 a round.
:)
I just drove up to AIM to pick up my 10x allotment of 30 round Magpul PMAG AR magazines. They're still charging the $12.95 pre-panic price, while other vendors such as "CheaperThanDirt" ( :rolleyes: ) were charging up to $99 each at the heat of the panic.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 19, 2013, 12:06:07 PM
Lefties are such pussies.
That tactical officer is shooting right-handed, you goof.
Having trouble finding a non-biased source, but it sounds like Obama may be gearing up to do what I thought he might do in the first place: ban importation of surplus ammunition, magazines, and gun parts via executive order. Supposedly it could even extend to new production ammo made for the civilian market that happens to be in a "military" caliber.
I suspect he had it in his back pocket for when the House rejected the Senate gun control measures. But since said measures didn't even make it out of the Senate, he's playing the card now.
Maybe it's a good time to sell my 5.45x39mm AR upper, cuz there is absolutely no domestic production of it and my reason for buying it was that it could shoot that cheap Russian surplus stuff :hmm:
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Fuck him.
He needs to work on other shit (way more important) instead of this. Fuck him, opportunist. He thought it would be easy. Get back on track with the economy and all these folks outta work. Quit passing out your kool-aid, Mr. President.
I don't know, trying to reduce the five digit yearly body count seems like a pretty important issue. I know some of you don't really mind all those dead people as long as you get to play with your toys, but other points of view on this subject are valid as well.
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Fuck him.
He needs to work on other shit (way more important) instead of this. Fuck him, opportunist. He thought it would be easy. Get back on track with the economy and all these folks outta work. Quit passing out your kool-aid, Mr. President.
I don't know, trying to reduce the five digit yearly body count seems like a pretty important issue. I know some of you don't really mind all those dead people as long as you get to play with your toys, but other points of view on this subject are valid as well.
:rolleyes:
Didnt you get the NRA memo? Guns dont kill people.
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Fuck him.
He needs to work on other shit (way more important) instead of this. Fuck him, opportunist. He thought it would be easy. Get back on track with the economy and all these folks outta work. Quit passing out your kool-aid, Mr. President.
I don't know, trying to reduce the five digit yearly body count seems like a pretty important issue. I know some of you don't really mind all those dead people as long as you get to play with your toys, but other points of view on this subject are valid as well.
This measure wasn't really meant to reduce gun fatalities. It was meant to make the House GOP look bad for not passing it, which would supposedly allow the Dems to retake the House in 2014 by targeting purple state GOP congressmen. I have a feeling the *real* reason the President was so pissed was that the plan blew up in his face when the measure did not even get out of the Senate.
In a bout of insanity, I watched Guntucky on CMT. Dear lord, what a turd.
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2013, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 17, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 17, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Man, Barack is pretty pissed.
Fuck him.
He needs to work on other shit (way more important) instead of this. Fuck him, opportunist. He thought it would be easy. Get back on track with the economy and all these folks outta work. Quit passing out your kool-aid, Mr. President.
I don't know, trying to reduce the five digit yearly body count seems like a pretty important issue. I know some of you don't really mind all those dead people as long as you get to play with your toys, but other points of view on this subject are valid as well.
This measure wasn't really meant to reduce gun fatalities. It was meant to make the House GOP look bad for not passing it, which would supposedly allow the Dems to retake the House in 2014 by targeting purple state GOP congressmen. I have a feeling the *real* reason the President was so pissed was that the plan blew up in his face when the measure did not even get out of the Senate.
Or you know, he believes they should that guns should be regulated.
Or both. But I seriously doubt he expected it to pass the House.
My mom got a gun today. A little Sig P250 in 9mm. She casually mentioned at lunch this afternoon that she had heard someone walking around the side of her house/in her backyard/on her deck last night, so I insisted.
Ammo doesn't seem to exist anywhere except on the internet anymore though. I gave her 10 rounds of my +P JHP that I could spare, but I need to go looking around on that gunbot website Spiess linked to up above. I'm super low on 9mm myself.
E: Ammo problem solved. That's a pretty cool little site.
Many hobos go down after fewer than 10 rounds.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 27, 2013, 11:16:22 PM
My mom got a gun today. A little Sig P250 in 9mm. She casually mentioned at lunch this afternoon that she had heard someone walking around the side of her house/in her backyard/on her deck last night, so I insisted.
Ammo doesn't seem to exist anywhere except on the internet anymore though. I gave her 10 rounds of my +P JHP that I could spare, but I need to go looking around on that gunbot website Spiess linked to up above. I'm super low on 9mm myself.
E: Ammo problem solved. That's a pretty cool little site.
You insisted she get a gun because she might have heard someone in her backyard? Would she ever actually use it to shoot someone?
Quote from: sbr on April 28, 2013, 11:51:29 AM
You insisted she get a gun because she might have heard someone in her backyard? Would she ever actually use it to shoot someone?
It wasn't "might have." There was someone in her backyard, which consists of her deck and some rocks. She heard them walk up the side of her house to get there and heard them on the deck.
And yeah I would hope she would use it to shoot someone if they came into her house, although unfortunately I don't think she would get a chance if someone came in through the back there, since it's so close to her bed, etc. But if she can, that's what it's for. She's a 65 year old woman who lives by herself. Should I have taught her kung-fu instead? Maybe picked her up some Hanzo steel and trained her during a 15 minute montage?
Anyway, she didn't want a shotgun. E: There was a nice Mossberg 500 at one of the places we were looking, but she wanted the handgun instead for various reasons.
Cool. Get her trained up once you have enough ammo to do so.
Firearms availability & price are getting noticeably better, but ammo availability is still shitty and will be that way for at least. few more months. Gunbot helps, but you gotta be fast.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 24, 2013, 07:54:05 PM
In a bout of insanity, I watched Guntucky on CMT. Dear lord, what a turd.
I watched Call of the Wildman this weekend. That's a good show y'all. Turtleman lives maybe 30 minutes south of me. :showoff:
Turtleman rules.
The episode I saw featured Turtleman clearing two rat snakes out of an old lady's house in Stanford, KY. Princesca's grandma is from Stanford and it's such a small town that I wish I had caught the old lady's name, because her grandma probably knows her.
QuoteWife accidentally kills husband during gun lesson: Police
A fun night for a Pennsylvania couple turned deadly after police say the woman accidentally shot and killed her husband.
On Friday, around 9 p.m., police say Michael Wanko, 43, and Michele Wanko, 42, were "casually drinking" vodka and lemonade together inside their home on West Roland Road in Parkside, Penn. Around 3:30 a.m., police say the couple went into their basement so that Michael could show his wife how to use a semiautomatic pistol. The couple went into a work room where several weapons were kept inside a safe.
"He took several of the weapons out, handguns and was demonstrating to her how the weapon worked as far as taking the magazine out, making sure it was safe, and how to pull the slide back," said Parkside Police Chief John Egan.
As Michael reached into a safe to grab a gun, police say Michele picked up another gun and pulled the slide back, just as her husband had instructed her.
"When she let go of the slide, the weapon went off," said Chief Egan.
Michael was struck in the upper chest. At the time, police say, the couple's 2-year-old and 5-year-old sons were sleeping upstairs. Police say the 5-year-old was awakened by his mother's frantic screams as she called 911.
Police arrived at the home around 4 a.m. Michael was taken to Crozer-Chester Medical Center where he was pronounced dead shortly after.
Michele was charged with involuntary manslaughter, aggravated assault and possessing an instrument of crime. She was processed at the Chester City Jail and released on $250,000 unsecured bail. Her two children are currently staying with relatives.
Police say the gun Michele used was turned over to the Delaware County ballistics unit where investigators would "ascertain if the weapon malfunctioned or if it operated properly."
Neighbors described the Wanko family as "nice people" who always did things with their children and were well respected throughout the neighborhood. Chief Egan says police were called to their home a year ago for a domestic dispute but that it was only "a shouting match between the two." No one was charged in that incident.
I guess she learned a valuable lesson, so mission accomplished.
A guy in Vienna recently blew his brain out when he toyed with a pistol he possessed illegally. Apparently he had overlooked that there was still a bullet in the chamber.
My Scottish colleague was recently at a shooting range in Bratislava and had good fun. I'm kinda tempted to organize an outing with friends.
http://kingofshooting.com/bratislava/shooting-packages
Quote from: Syt on April 28, 2013, 11:41:27 PM
A guy in Vienna recently blew his brain out when he toyed with a pistol he possessed illegally. Apparently he had overlooked that there was still a bullet in the chamber.
My Scottish colleague was recently at a shooting range in Bratislava and had good fun. I'm kinda tempted to organize an outing with friends.
http://kingofshooting.com/bratislava/shooting-packages
If you go make sure to get one of the packages that includes the Russian TT. With the 7.62x25 ammo (basically a hotter version of 7.63mm Mauser) they put out a nice little fireball with each shot.
I do like some of the names of the shooting packages:
"Do it! Shoot them!"
''Shut up You trash!''
"Beginning of the end!"
"Please, don't do it!"
"Kill the bastards and save the planet!"
"Now You gonna pay for Your mistakes!"
Drinking and firearms don't go together, kids. :P
Good grief, when are we going to teach gun safety in school...
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 29, 2013, 10:41:40 AM
Drinking and firearms don't go together, kids. :P
No shit.
:hmm:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/29/17976890-pro-gun-billboard-featuring-native-americans-causing-controversy-in-colorado?lite
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia.msn.com%2Fj%2FMSNBC%2FComponents%2FPhoto%2F_new%2F130429-gun-indian-billboard-936p.photoblog600.jpg&hash=2beed2f01a3c1cdadd6205884a76bfb0f8a46a0c)
Sounds like the only controversy is having to stoop to getting a detracting comment from someone in a university ethnic studies department.
I think it is a little odd to draw a comparison to what happened to native Americans and what would happen if there were stricter gun control laws.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 07:11:56 AM
I think it is a little odd to draw a comparison to what happened to native Americans and what would happen if there were stricter gun control laws.
Pretty ironical, since the NRA was resolutely supportive of gun control when it came to groups like AIM in the 1970s. Funny how that happens when brown people are involved.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 08:36:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 07:11:56 AM
I think it is a little odd to draw a comparison to what happened to native Americans and what would happen if there were stricter gun control laws.
Pretty ironical, since the NRA was resolutely supportive of gun control when it came to groups like AIM in the 1970s. Funny how that happens when brown people are involved.
Is that their position now? No? Then STFU.
Thinking of getting my life membership before the $300 promotion ends Thursday :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:10:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 08:36:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 07:11:56 AM
I think it is a little odd to draw a comparison to what happened to native Americans and what would happen if there were stricter gun control laws.
Pretty ironical, since the NRA was resolutely supportive of gun control when it came to groups like AIM in the 1970s. Funny how that happens when brown people are involved.
Is that their position now? No? Then STFU.
Was it in 1879, when that picture was taken? No? Then STFU, Custer.
QuoteThinking of getting my life membership before the $300 promotion ends Thursday :hmm:
Because they showed how well that money was spent in the 2012 campaigns. :lol: You're better off spending it on more ammo.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:13:31 AM
Was it in 1879, when that picture was taken? No? Then STFU, Custer.
Maybe their position evolved, like our President's did on a different issue.
QuoteBecause they showed how well that money was spent in the 2012 campaigns. :lol:
THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE
QuoteYou're better off spending it on more ammo.
I have enough of a stockpile for now. Probably buy more though if I hit the AIM Surplus lottery on sanely-priced ammo or my Walmart mole calls me to tell me they got some in.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
Maybe their position evolved, like our President's did on a different issue.
I'm sure they're completely supportive of the New Black Panther Party's 2nd Amendment rights. :lol: :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
Maybe their position evolved, like our President's did on a different issue.
I'm sure they're completely supportive of the New Black Panther Party's 2nd Amendment rights. :lol: :P
THATS NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS HAD IN MIND. THEY WERENT EVEN FULL PEOPLE.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:34:46 AM
THATS NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS HAD IN MIND. THEY WERENT EVEN FULL PEOPLE.
Fine, then. They can have 3/5s ammo capacity.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:34:46 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
Maybe their position evolved, like our President's did on a different issue.
I'm sure they're completely supportive of the New Black Panther Party's 2nd Amendment rights. :lol: :P
THATS NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS HAD IN MIND. THEY WERENT EVEN FULL PEOPLE.
The good old days :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
Maybe their position evolved, like our President's did on a different issue.
I'm sure they're completely supportive of the New Black Panther Party's 2nd Amendment rights. :lol: :P
As long as individual members are law-abiding citizens without a criminal record, I'm sure they are.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:36:20 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
Maybe their position evolved, like our President's did on a different issue.
I'm sure they're completely supportive of the New Black Panther Party's 2nd Amendment rights. :lol: :P
As long as individual members are law-abiding citizens without a criminal record, I'm sure they are.
That's quaint.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:36:20 AM
As long as individual members are law-abiding citizens without a criminal record, I'm sure they are.
Nice try, Colonel Sanders.
Why don't you ask this NRA member what he thinks?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediaite.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2Fjames-earl-jones-q-and-a-4.jpg&hash=dbadc02cb419f283e9343a1d382e60ba21fd13e9)
I'm hoping that post was a joke and you'll promptly delete it. :D
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:44:09 AM
I'm hoping that post was a joke and you'll promptly delete it. :D
Why?
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:47:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:44:09 AM
I'm hoping that post was a joke and you'll promptly delete it. :D
Why?
They dont like gun loving black folk.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:42:55 AM
Why don't you ask this NRA member what he thinks?
I'd rather ask these guys why they weren't allowed to become NRA members instead.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Black-Panther-Party-armed-guards-in-street-shotguns.jpg)
Because at Seedy's implied charges of racism you posted a photo of a token black guy*. Might as well have said that your best friends are black and you all love to go shooting together.
*Not that he is a token but you are using him as such.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:51:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 09:42:55 AM
Why don't you ask this NRA member what he thinks?
I'd rather ask these guys why they weren't allowed to become NRA members instead.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Black-Panther-Party-armed-guards-in-street-shotguns.jpg)
They weren't?
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:51:41 AM
Because at Seedy's implied charges of racism you posted a photo of a token black guy*. Might as well have said that your best friend's are black and you all love to go shooting together.
*Not that he is a token but you are using him as such.
:yes:
ugh gratuitous apostrophe use. :(
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:51:41 AM
Because at Seedy's implied charges of racism you posted a photo of a token black guy*. Might as well have said that your best friends are black and you all love to go shooting together.
*Not that he is a token but you are using him as such.
Ah yes, the old "token" chestnut. As a matter of fact I did go shooting with a black guy a couple weeks ago :P We joined the rifle & pistol club at the same time.
Anyway, the burden of proof is on you anti-NRA wusses making the OMG RACISS charge.
The old token chestnut? You're the one who played the card. :huh:
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 10:04:57 AM
The old token chestnut? You're the one who played the card. :huh:
The accusation of tokenness-- that one was all yours :contract:
I was merely pointing out an NRA member whom I greatly admire :sleep:
What about Whoopi?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 09:35:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:34:46 AM
THATS NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS HAD IN MIND. THEY WERENT EVEN FULL PEOPLE.
Fine, then. They can have 3/5s ammo capacity.
Indians not taxed weren't counted at all. :(
I went shootin' this morning. Burned off about 300 rounds of 7.62 ammo and about 100 9mm rounds.
Felt much better afterwards. Great stress relief. :)
Plus had no Cal like mishaps. MAH SIGHTS FELL OFF
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 30, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
Plus had no Cal like mishaps. MAH SIGHTS FELL OFF
WHERES THE SLIDE LOCK? THE SLIDE LOCK?
(https://lh3.ggpht.com/-mc5_9KystTU/UWbfyl4VqFI/AAAAAAAAMsY/sx42672GQKI/s400/Star-Trek-The-Wrath-of-Khan.jpg)
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 30, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
I went shootin' this morning. Burned off about 300 rounds of 7.62 ammo and about 100 9mm rounds.
Felt much better afterwards. Great stress relief. :)
Did you have a bench rest fitted to your Rascal? :P
Quote
Plus had no Cal like mishaps. MAH SIGHTS FELL OFF
:lol: I had my red dot sight come loose last time I was out and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hold zero. I blamed the ammo, then the heavier trigger spring I installed, and then finally got a clue when the scope mount was wobbling. I had tightened it with a 1/2" wrench but didn't bother snugging it 3 times per the manual.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 12:11:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 30, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
I went shootin' this morning. Burned off about 300 rounds of 7.62 ammo and about 100 9mm rounds.
Felt much better afterwards. Great stress relief. :)
Did you have a bench rest fitted to your Rascal? :P
HOVEROUND.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcsinnovations.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2Fhoveround-goes-through-wendys-drive-thru.jpg&hash=2885fa195f70149bbd86d1286861277e1f3df820)
Haters gonna hate
I found some Russian-made Wolf .223 relatively cheap. Gonna use it for plinking or rapid fire shooting, so as not to deplete my stash of brass-cased 5.56.
Russian, huh? I'd say go out and shoot Nazis with it, but I'm sure you've got a local ordinance somewhere on the books about shooting at your neighbors.
Deny a man his gun, and this is what happens. :(
http://now.msn.com/william-daniel-lloyd-injured-hunting-squirrel-with-bb-gun#scpshrjwfbs
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
Russian, huh? I'd say go out and shoot Nazis with it, but I'm sure you've got a local ordinance somewhere on the books about shooting at your neighbors.
Ha! Seedy made a funny.
My neighbors are good peeps. I have a retired cop on one side and an ER doc on the other.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
My neighbors are good peeps. I have a retired cop on one side and an ER doc on the other.
And I'm sure their kids go to school where they belong.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 12:56:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
My neighbors are good peeps. I have a retired cop on one side and an ER doc on the other.
And I'm sure their kids go to school where they belong.
Correct.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 12:11:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 30, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
I went shootin' this morning. Burned off about 300 rounds of 7.62 ammo and about 100 9mm rounds.
Felt much better afterwards. Great stress relief. :)
Did you have a bench rest fitted to your Rascal? :P
Quote
Plus had no Cal like mishaps. MAH SIGHTS FELL OFF
:lol: I had my red dot sight come loose last time I was out and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hold zero. I blamed the ammo, then the heavier trigger spring I installed, and then finally got a clue when the scope mount was wobbling. I had tightened it with a 1/2" wrench but didn't bother snugging it 3 times per the manual.
One of the4se days I need to get the M4 AP mounted.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 30, 2013, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 12:11:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 30, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
I went shootin' this morning. Burned off about 300 rounds of 7.62 ammo and about 100 9mm rounds.
Felt much better afterwards. Great stress relief. :)
Did you have a bench rest fitted to your Rascal? :P
Quote
Plus had no Cal like mishaps. MAH SIGHTS FELL OFF
:lol: I had my red dot sight come loose last time I was out and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hold zero. I blamed the ammo, then the heavier trigger spring I installed, and then finally got a clue when the scope mount was wobbling. I had tightened it with a 1/2" wrench but didn't bother snugging it 3 times per the manual.
One of the4se days I need to get the M4 AP mounted.
Or you could just send it to me :P
Both of mine are Aimpoint knockoffs made by (or for) Primary Arms, but the consensus is that they're durable and hold their zero-- as long as you tighten the mount enough. Maybe not something you'd want to use out on patrol, but good enough for range use.
Thinking about getting an Eotech for one of my rifles, since they don't seem too hideously expensive.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 30, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
Plus had no Cal like mishaps. MAH SIGHTS FELL OFF
WHERES THE SLIDE LOCK? THE SLIDE LOCK?
(https://lh3.ggpht.com/-mc5_9KystTU/UWbfyl4VqFI/AAAAAAAAMsY/sx42672GQKI/s400/Star-Trek-The-Wrath-of-Khan.jpg)
Making mistakes is how you learn. :mad:
QuoteThinking about getting an Eotech for one of my rifles, since they don't seem too hideously expensive
Eotech's are generally very good.
I'll eventually get the M4 on. Just not going to expend the ammo. I've put maybe 22 rounds through the sr556. Not like I need the practice with it, so it sits under the bed. :P
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 01:24:39 PM
Making mistakes is how you learn. :mad:
Yeah...painting the kitchen. Firearms, not so much. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 01:24:39 PM
Making mistakes is how you learn. :mad:
Yeah...painting the kitchen. Firearms, not so much. :P
I'm missing on the creation of a Languish Meme(tm) here.
What did Cal do? "Accidentally" paint the walls with the brains of annoying relations? IT JUST WENT OFF BY ITSELF ... ;)
Yes, Malthus, that's what I did which is why I'm at work and posting on Languish instead of in jail. :)
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
Yes, Malthus, that's what I did which is why I'm at work and posting on Languish instead of in jail. :)
Evidently being a Kentucky Colonel has its privileges. :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 03:59:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
Yes, Malthus, that's what I did which is why I'm at work and posting on Languish instead of in jail. :)
Evidently being a Kentucky Colonel has its privileges. :hmm:
Hopefully Cal can experience that firsthand someday :)
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
instead of in jail. :)
Nah, don't be silly.
This is America; shooting folks in the face is barely a faux pas. It's a presidential vice.
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 03:59:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
Yes, Malthus, that's what I did which is why I'm at work and posting on Languish instead of in jail. :)
Evidently being a Kentucky Colonel has its privileges. :hmm:
I'm the colonel. Cal is a buck private.
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2013, 03:00:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 01:24:39 PM
Making mistakes is how you learn. :mad:
Yeah...painting the kitchen. Firearms, not so much. :P
I'm missing on the creation of a Languish Meme(tm) here.
What did Cal do? "Accidentally" paint the walls with the brains of annoying relations? IT JUST WENT OFF BY ITSELF ... ;)
IIRC, Cal lost the slide of his pistol on the range ones (some time ago). I guess that's not a good thing to do.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 30, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
instead of in jail. :)
Nah, don't be silly.
This is America; shooting folks in the face is barely a faux pas. It's a presidential vice.
:D
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 30, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
instead of in jail. :)
Nah, don't be silly.
This is America; shooting folks in the face is barely a faux pas. It's a presidential vice.
Or rather it's vice presidential. :hmm:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 18, 2012, 10:14:49 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 18, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 18, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Passed my qualification for a CCDW today. :cool:
But somehow between the gun range and home I seem to have lost a piece of my pistol (the block adaptor/locking block). :blink:
:hmm: Methinks the qualification criteria could use a bit more rigor.
No shit.
Way to go, Cletus.
:hmm:
Looks like a wave of police trade-in S&W Model 10s is hitting the market. I'd like one for the hell of it but at nearly $300 they're way overpriced.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2013, 07:46:31 PM
Looks like a wave of police trade-in S&W Model 10s is hitting the market. I'd like one for the hell of it but at nearly $300 they're way overpriced.
What'd they do, keep them in storage for 20 years first?
Who knows. They could have come from anywhere. I've seen police trade-ins from Europe and Argentina recently. Wish Ihad had the cash for that Ballester Molina I saw.
You know, they could be Corrections recycling. If you get one, buyer beware. :D Take it to a gunsmith first, those things are dropped and treated like crap for their entire service life.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 30, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
instead of in jail. :)
Nah, don't be silly.
This is America; shooting folks in the face is barely a faux pas. It's a presidential vice.
Or rather it's vice presidential. :hmm:
Wouldn't have figured you for a whoosh.
Hey, now wait a minute. That sounds like something Dick Cheney might have done!!
Seriously, WTF?
QuoteCoroner: 5-year-old shoots 2-year-old sister in Ky. with his gun; mother had just stepped away
By Associated Press, Published: April 30 | Updated: Wednesday, May 1, 12:19 PM
BURKESVILLE, Ky. — A 5-year-old boy accidentally shot his 2-year-old sister to death in rural southern Kentucky with a rifle he had received as a gift last year, authorities said.
The children's mother was home at the time of the shooting Tuesday afternoon but had stepped on to the porch for "no more than three minutes," Cumberland County Coroner Gary White told WKYT-TV.
White told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
"It's a Crickett," White said, referring to a company that specifically makes guns, clothes and books for children. "It's a little rifle for a kid. ... The little boy's used to shooting the little gun."
White said the shooting was an accident.
It wasn't immediately clear who gave the boy the gun or exactly what led up to the shooting. White did not return a telephone call from The Associated Press on Wednesday.
State police said in a brief news release the shooting occurred when the boy was "playing" with the rifle, but did not elaborate.
It is not clear whether any charges will be filed, said Kentucky State Police spokesman Trooper Billy Gregory.
"I think it's too early to say whether there will or won't be," Gregory said Wednesday.
Keystone Sporting Arms, based in Milton, Penn., produced 60,000 Crickett and Chipmunk rifles in 2008, according to its website. It also makes guns for adults, but most of its products are geared toward children.
The company's slogan is "my first rifle" and its website has a "Kids Corner" section where pictures of young boys and girls are displayed, most of them showing the children at shooting ranges and on bird and deer hunts. The smaller rifles are sold with a mount to use at a shooting range.
"The goal of KSA is to instill gun safety in the minds of youth shooters and encourage them to gain the knowledge and respect that hunting and shooting activities require and deserve," the website said.
No one at the company answered the phone Wednesday.
According to its website, Bill McNeal and his son Steve McNeal decided to make guns for young shooters in the mid-1990s and opened Keystone in 1996 with just four employees, producing 4,000 rifles that year. It now employs about 70 people.
Burkesville sits near the Tennessee-Kentucky state line along the Cumberland River, among the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. The small city is about 90 miles northeast of Nashville, Tenn.
It is home to a Mennonite community that gained attention in 2010 when nine of its members were killed in a head-on collision with a tractor-trailer.
Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Freedomness. Libertyism.
I might get Tommy an air rifle in a year or two, but even then I'd keep it locked in the safe with everything else.
DGuller, I think you have to turn yourself in
QuoteCopyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Nothing quite says "safety" like a 4 year old's first firearm. :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 10:00:36 AM
Hey, now wait a minute. That sounds like something Dick Cheney might have done!!
:D
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 12:24:28 PM
Nothing quite says "safety" like a 4 year old's first firearm. :hmm:
Apparantly there is a market for this sort of insanity.
Quote"It's a Crickett," White said, referring to a company that specifically makes guns, clothes and books for children. "It's a little rifle for a kid. ...
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
1. Improper clearing of the rifle= Parents fault
2. Improperly stored= Parents fault
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Sad thing is, a $3 trigger lock would have prevented this. Even with a round in the chamber. Even with the parents voilating #1 & #2 above.
CHARGE THEM.
Cumberland County. :bleeding:
That's the third world, y'all.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Is that even a crime in that part of the US?
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2013, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Is that even a crime in that part of the US?
:D
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2013, 12:31:51 PM
Is that even a crime in that part of the US?
:lmfao:
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
Apparantly there is a market for this sort of insanity.
Ask Ed :ph34r:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 09:52:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 30, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
instead of in jail. :)
Nah, don't be silly.
This is America; shooting folks in the face is barely a faux pas. It's a presidential vice.
Or rather it's vice presidential. :hmm:
Wouldn't have figured you for a whoosh.
I disliked the word order. :angry: -_-
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
1. Improper clearing of the rifle= Parents fault
2. Improperly stored= Parents fault
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Sad thing is, a $3 trigger lock would have prevented this. Even with a round in the chamber. Even with the parents voilating #1 & #2 above.
CHARGE THEM.
Why charge them with a crime?
This is a tragedy, but parental negligence leads to serious injury or death for children all the time - car accidents being the #1 culprit, of course.
They are morons (honestly, buying a rifle for a 5 year old was the first clue), but being stupid is not a crime, and there isn't any reason to send them off to jail. It won't "punish" them, because how can you possibly imagine that any punishment could be worse than being responsible for the death of your child? And it won't deter anything, since the people that are stupid enough to buy rifles for their five year olds and stupid enough not to secure said rifles are stupid enough to think that such a thing could not possibly happen to THEM anyway.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
Apparantly there is a market for this sort of insanity.
It's a function of the politicization of the underlying issue.
There are all sorts of reasons why a household might keep a dangerous weapon in the house but a toy for a small child is not one of them. No one would think a giving a 5 year old their own set of butcher knives to play Gordon Ramsey, or pesticides to play farmer, or a chemistry set with TNT in it.
But the political battle over gun control has pushed partisans to extreme positions, and to extreme cultural stances. So that it is not enough to defend the negative liberty right to purchase and own firearms for whatever lawful purpose one desires; rather the ownership and use of firearms must be extolled as a positive good and as an essential cultural expression in any or all possible manifestations. That is the dynamic that leads to ready reception to a marketing campaign promoting the sale of guns for 5 year olds.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 12:57:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
Apparantly there is a market for this sort of insanity.
It's a function of the politicization of the underlying issue.
There are all sorts of reasons why a household might keep a dangerous weapon in the house but a toy for a small child is not one of them. No one would think a giving a 5 year old their own set of butcher knives to play Gordon Ramsey, or pesticides to play farmer, or a chemistry set with TNT in it.
But the political battle over gun control has pushed partisans to extreme positions, and to extreme cultural stances. So that it is not enough to defend the negative liberty right to purchase and own firearms for whatever lawful purpose one desires; rather the ownership and use of firearms must be extolled as a positive good and as an essential cultural expression in any or all possible manifestations. That is the dynamic that leads to ready reception to a marketing campaign promoting the sale of guns for 5 year olds.
4 year olds.
The 5 year old got it as a present last year. ;)
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 12:53:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
1. Improper clearing of the rifle= Parents fault
2. Improperly stored= Parents fault
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Sad thing is, a $3 trigger lock would have prevented this. Even with a round in the chamber. Even with the parents voilating #1 & #2 above.
CHARGE THEM.
Why charge them with a crime?
This is a tragedy, but parental negligence leads to serious injury or death for children all the time - car accidents being the #1 culprit, of course.
They are morons (honestly, buying a rifle for a 5 year old was the first clue), but being stupid is not a crime, and there isn't any reason to send them off to jail. It won't "punish" them, because how can you possibly imagine that any punishment could be worse than being responsible for the death of your child? And it won't deter anything, since the people that are stupid enough to buy rifles for their five year olds and stupid enough not to secure said rifles are stupid enough to think that such a thing could not possibly happen to THEM anyway.
The law: a smorgasbord where Berkut decides what applies on a case by case basis.
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 12:53:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
QuoteWhite told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
1. Improper clearing of the rifle= Parents fault
2. Improperly stored= Parents fault
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Sad thing is, a $3 trigger lock would have prevented this. Even with a round in the chamber. Even with the parents voilating #1 & #2 above.
CHARGE THEM.
Why charge them with a crime?
This is a tragedy, but parental negligence leads to serious injury or death for children all the time - car accidents being the #1 culprit, of course.
They are morons (honestly, buying a rifle for a 5 year old was the first clue), but being stupid is not a crime, and there isn't any reason to send them off to jail. It won't "punish" them, because how can you possibly imagine that any punishment could be worse than being responsible for the death of your child? And it won't deter anything, since the people that are stupid enough to buy rifles for their five year olds and stupid enough not to secure said rifles are stupid enough to think that such a thing could not possibly happen to THEM anyway.
Not sure I agree that general deterence isn't applicable here. It sends the message to society at large that you have to store your firearm safely.
Under the standards here though I don't know if crim neg is made out. Civil negligence, sure, but to make it criminal your negligence has to be "wanton or reckless disregard".
Now mind you we would prosecute for unsafe storage of a firearm, and upon conviction ban them from owning any firearms.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 12:24:28 PM
Nothing quite says "safety" like a 4 year old's first firearm. :hmm:
Apparantly there is a market for this sort of insanity.
Quote"It's a Crickett," White said, referring to a company that specifically makes guns, clothes and books for children. "It's a little rifle for a kid. ...
Heh, I thought this must be wrong - I mean, I can imagine a "youth rifle" but I cannot imagine a company deliberately promoting guns to such young children.
So I looked at the company website and, while they don't expressly say "buy our guns for your 4, 5 or 6 year old", they *do* proudly post user testimonials from folks who have:
Quote"Just wanted to drop you a note, to let you know what a great product you offer. I just recently bought two Crickett .22's, one pink and one black. They are exceptionally accurate, and just the right size for my 5 and 7 year olds. They are awesome and we couldn't be happier. Thanks So Much!!!!!"
---Travis
:huh:
Check out the "kid's corner" - mostly has pics of very young kids with guns - I assume the ones with actual babies are just for the cute factor. :hmm:
http://www.crickett.com/crickett_kidscorner.php?osCsid=p38cacquj25qhl3gd0mun3ucd5
What is the little girl with the pink rifle in the 4th row holding? :lol:
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 12:53:26 PM
since the people that are stupid enough to buy rifles for their five year olds and stupid enough not to secure said rifles are stupid enough to think that such a thing could not possibly happen to THEM anyway.
If people are found to be criminally responsible for the profoundly stupid act of giving a 4 year old a rifle then that might create at least some awareness among gun nuts that such a thing should not be done.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 12:18:42 PM
DGuller, I think you have to turn yourself in
QuoteCopyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
:face: Pasted one line too many.
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 01:20:20 PM
Check out the "kid's corner" - mostly has pics of very young kids with guns - I assume the ones with actual babies are just for the cute factor. :hmm:
http://www.crickett.com/crickett_kidscorner.php?osCsid=p38cacquj25qhl3gd0mun3ucd5
What is the little girl with the pink rifle in the 4th row holding? :lol:
:D
:weep:
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2013, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
3. #1+#2= Charge the parents with at least Neg Homicide.
Is that even a crime in that part of the US?
:XD:
Well, to be fair we don't even know if his sister was wearing a hoodie. This could be a righteous shoot.
OH SKITTLES
QuoteWhy charge them with a crime?
To start holding parents responsible.
Quote
They are morons (honestly, buying a rifle for a 5 year old was the first clue), but being stupid is not a crime, and there isn't any reason to send them off to jail.
Disagree. The storage and improper safety , which is the responsibility of the parents is the reason they are morons and their daughter is dead.
QuoteThis is a tragedy, but parental negligence leads to serious injury or death for children all the time - car accidents being the #1 culprit, of course.
Sure it is and sure it does.
QuoteIt won't "punish" them, because how can you possibly imagine that any punishment could be worse than being responsible for the death of your child? And it won't deter anything, since the people that are stupid enough to buy rifles for their five year olds and stupid enough not to secure said rifles are stupid enough to think that such a thing could not possibly happen to THEM anyway.
Absolute cop out and them buying a 22LR rifle is not the biggest reason they are morons.
Again charge the parents and this coming from a Languish tagged "Gun Nut".
QuoteNot sure I agree that general deterence isn't applicable here. It sends the message to society at large that you have to store your firearm safely......
Exactly and I'll add (...or be held responsible.)
Here's one that happened last year in my area and this guy should have know better. I say no mercy. Dont feel sorry for the parents.
QuoteDad charged with manslaughter after 3-year-old son shoots sister
By Isolde Raftery, msnbc.com
A Washington state police officer was charged Tuesday with second-degree manslaughter two months after his 3-year-old son picked up his unsecured gun and fatally shot his older sister.
Follow @msnbc_world
On March 10, Derek Carlile, 31, and his wife locked their four children in the family van and stepped out to run a quick errand at an art studio. Carlile's wife, Forrest, asked whether he had secured his personal weapon but in his haste, Carlile forgot, according to charging documents. Investigators suggest it could have been that he was also tired – the night before, he had worked until 2 a.m.
Forgetting to secure the weapon was not typical for him, he later told investigators; usually he strapped the .38-caliber revolver to his ankle with a Velcro strap or locked it in a side door compartment in the van.
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According to charging documents obtained by the Everett Herald, investigators believe the boy stepped out of his booster seat, grabbed his father's gun from a cup holder and shot his 7-year-old sister Jenna in the stomach.
The boy was apparently fascinated guns, Carlile told investigators, saying that he "climbs up on top of the safe and gets to the holsters."
"That's why I'm beating myself up, because I left my damn gun, for 40 seconds in the center," he said. "It's like, what the hell?"
The prosecutor wrote, "Though the undeniable tragedy and grief that has stricken the defendant and his family is staggering, compassion must be balanced with accountability for the acts which caused it."
On that afternoon, as Carlile and his wife spoke with the shop owner, they heard a thud. Rushing back to the van, Carlile screamed, "He's got the gun." He immediately administered aid to his daughter but she died just after midnight.
Detectives obtained a copy of a firearms training guide from where Carlile had trained as a police officer. One chapter addresses children and firearms and the misconceptions that children "don't know how (a gun) works" and, "they aren't strong enough to use it."
Read the original story at KING5 News
Defense lawyer David Allen issued a statement to KING5 News: "This is a double tragedy for the Carlile family that not only lost Jenna, but now also faces the possibility of losing Derek to prison if the prosecution is successful. While he takes full responsibility for this tragic accident, his actions were not criminal and he intends to vigorously defend this charge."
Boy, 9: 'Dear Amina, I am sorry I hurt you because I brought a gun to school'
Around that time, three other children in Washington state were accidentally killed with guns. Another 3-year-old killed himself; Amina Bowman, 8, was shot by a classmate who had brought a gun to school; and a Spokane, Wash. police officer's 10-year-old daughter shot herself in the leg with his gun.
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Carlile could face 27 months in prison.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 02:53:08 PM
Here's one that happened last year in my area and this guy should have know better. I say no mercy. Dont feel sorry for the parents.
Is it okay if I say they should be prosecuted, but I still feel sorry for the parents?
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 02:56:47 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 02:53:08 PM
Here's one that happened last year in my area and this guy should have know better. I say no mercy. Dont feel sorry for the parents.
Is it okay if I say they should be prosecuted, but I still feel sorry for the parents?
Certainly, whatever floats your boat. I feel sorry for the dead kid that had an idiot parent. Not the parent
I would also join the idiot gun company that markets selling to young children and supplies the weapons for that purpose.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
I would also join the idiot gun company that markets selling to young children and supplies the weapons for that purpose.
I wasnt aware a "young kid" had the ability to buy a firearm. Must be something new. :rolleyes: Get real.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
I would also join the idiot gun company that markets selling to young children and supplies the weapons for that purpose.
I wasnt aware a "young kid" had the ability to buy a firearm. Must be something new. :rolleyes: Get real.
What are you talking about? Do you think adults are buying pink guns designed for use by young girls for their own use or do you think they are designed for the young girls.
Yes you have been labelled a gun nut and for this very reason. You seem to realize that putting weapons into the hands of young children is somehow wrong but your gun nutness prevents you from understanding why that is.
The gun company is just filling a demand.
The problem is that there is a demand for lethal weapons in the form of pink toys for small children.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 03:22:04 PM
The gun company is just filling a demand.
The problem is that there is a demand for lethal weapons in the form of pink toys for small children.
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
I would also join the idiot gun company that markets selling to young children and supplies the weapons for that purpose.
I wasnt aware a "young kid" had the ability to buy a firearm. Must be something new. :rolleyes: Get real.
What are you talking about? Do you think adults are buying pink guns designed for use by young girls for their own use or do you think they are designed for the young girls.
Yes you have been labelled a gun nut and for this very reason. You seem to realize that putting weapons into the hands of young children is somehow wrong but your gun nutness prevents you from understanding why that is.
How lame. Again you cant see past your "Anti- gun nuttiness". When you dont have an arguement you result in personal attack. I will take that as you ceding this conversation.
I understand, which you fail too see, that is in the end, the responsibility of the parent. Funny I have an 8 y/o daughter and she doesnt have a pink rifle. :lmfao:
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 03:22:04 PM
The gun company is just filling a demand.
The problem is that there is a demand for lethal weapons in the form of pink toys for small children.
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
To be fair, the nature of demand makes it somewhat self-limiting.
Personally, I blame the traitors who wrote the US Constitution.
Quote from: Neil on May 01, 2013, 03:28:32 PM
Personally, I blame the traitors who wrote the US Constitution.
The Constitution is not the problem. It took more than 220 years before the Constitution was read in such a way as to limit the power to regulate individual firearm use. And even then, there is still a good deal of regulatory power left, as evidenced by the many restrictive state laws that still remain in force. Congress has simply not elected to use that regulatory authority at the federal level.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 12:34:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
Apparantly there is a market for this sort of insanity.
Ask Ed :ph34r:
My kids have trigger discipline. And the only guns they have is Nerf guns.
GETTING THEM TRAINED UP FOR THE WAR AGAINST ISLAM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 03:25:05 PM
I understand, which you fail too see, that is in the end, the responsibility of the parent. Funny I have an 8 y/o daughter and she doesnt have a pink rifle. :lmfao:
Does she have a rifle of any description?
Quote from: DGuller on May 01, 2013, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 03:22:04 PM
The gun company is just filling a demand.
The problem is that there is a demand for lethal weapons in the form of pink toys for small children.
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
To be fair, the nature of demand makes it somewhat self-limiting.
I am not sure we can count on natural selection to work that quickly.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
What are you talking about? Do you think adults are buying pink guns designed for use by young girls for their own use or do you think they are designed for the young girls.
Personally I think it's silly, but there are a lot of pink firearms that are marketed to adult women.
But in any case, this is quite different from "selling to young children". The company is selling and marketing to their parents. I haven't seen any commercials for them yet during cartoons.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
What are you talking about? Do you think adults are buying pink guns designed for use by young girls for their own use or do you think they are designed for the young girls.
Personally I think it's silly, but there are a lot of pink firearms that are marketed to adult women.
But in any case, this is quite different from "selling to young children". The company is selling and marketing to their parents. I haven't seen any commercials for them yet during cartoons.
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents. You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents. You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.
No one is suggesting that a 4 year old is going to walk into a store and purchase their own gun but just a silly is the concept that a company would make a gun for them to use and market the gun for that purpose.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
What are you talking about? Do you think adults are buying pink guns designed for use by young girls for their own use or do you think they are designed for the young girls.
Personally I think it's silly, but there are a lot of pink firearms that are marketed to adult women.
But in any case, this is quite different from "selling to young children". The company is selling and marketing to their parents. I haven't seen any commercials for them yet during cartoons.
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.
The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.
You might as well sell a car designed for little children, except that it actually goes 65 mph. Gotta teach the little ones about car safety at a young age, dontchaknow!
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 04:09:21 PM
All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.
The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.
You might as well sell a car designed for little children, except that it actually goes 65 mph. Gotta teach the little ones about car safety at a young age, dontchaknow!
If they can make a law prohibiting kinder eggs, surely they can make a law banning child-sized firearms...
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:41:08 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 03:25:05 PM
I understand, which you fail too see, that is in the end, the responsibility of the parent. Funny I have an 8 y/o daughter and she doesnt have a pink rifle. :lmfao:
Does she have a rifle of any description?
No doubt, much too your chagrin, no.
Quote from: Neil on May 01, 2013, 03:28:32 PM
Personally, I blame the traitors who wrote the US Constitution.
Says you with the tricky Dick av. :P
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 04:10:53 PM
If they can make a law prohibiting kinder eggs, surely they can make a law banning child-sized firearms...
Certainly the Second Amendment would not prohibit that, even as applied in
HellerThe question is whether the legislature will dare to - shall we say, pull the trigger. And the problem is that the same mentality that gives rise to demand for this product also puts into office people who will defend this business model, either out of conviction or out of fear.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents. You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.
Yes they do.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 04:09:21 PM
All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.
The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.
You might as well sell a car designed for little children, except that it actually goes 65 mph. Gotta teach the little ones about car safety at a young age, dontchaknow!
If they can make a law prohibiting kinder eggs, surely they can make a law banning child-sized firearms...
And both would be stupid laws.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
Nanny state.
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 04:09:21 PM
The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.
:yes:
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 04:09:21 PM
All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.
The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.
You might as well sell a car designed for little children, except that it actually goes 65 mph. Gotta teach the little ones about car safety at a young age, dontchaknow!
If they can make a law prohibiting kinder eggs, surely they can make a law banning child-sized firearms...
I'm guessing there are some nuts out there, demanding foetuses have the right to bear arms.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents. You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.
There is no doubt that the products are purchased by adults (for one, your average 4 year old lacks the sort of income necessary to buy a rifle).
What you are seemingly missing is the apparent insanity of having a company marketing a product whose purchase
for its intended purpose ought, in any sane world, be illegal. I don't care how well-behaved and sensible a given 4 year old is - they should not, under any circumstances, be using firearms. I wouldn't trust a kid that age to cross the street without holding an adult's hand - how on earth are they being trusted with gun safety?
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
Nanny state.
To my mind, a gun user ought to be licenced in the same way as a car driver, and for the same reason - public safety.
And just as I'd find a company marketing road capable cars to preschoolers an absurdity, I find a company marketing guns to preschoolers an absurdity.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 04:06:34 PM
No one is suggesting that a 4 year old is going to walk into a store and purchase their own gun but just a silly is the concept that a company would make a gun for them to use and market the gun for that purpose.
These rifles are not designed specifically for 4-year olds. They're "youth rifles", which have been around for a while and are simply designed for anyone with a small enough stature that holding a standard-weight rifle would be awkward (the weight is the differentiating factor between these and adult rifles, not the size, FWIW).
I'd say most kids who use these are in the 9 to 15 year age range, and it's certainly an appropriate product for them to use.
I'd never buy one for my kids, but that's mostly because in 11 or so years I'd be stuck with a useless (to me) rifle. When my kids are big enough to handle the .22 I had as a teenager, they can shoot that.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 04:34:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 04:06:34 PM
No one is suggesting that a 4 year old is going to walk into a store and purchase their own gun but just a silly is the concept that a company would make a gun for them to use and market the gun for that purpose.
These rifles are not designed specifically for 4-year olds. They're "youth rifles", which have been around for a while and are simply designed for anyone with a small enough stature that holding a standard-weight rifle would be awkward (the weight is the differentiating factor between these and adult rifles, not the size, FWIW).
I'd say most kids who use these are in the 9 to 15 year age range, and it's certainly an appropriate product for them to use.
I'd never buy one for my kids, but that's mostly because in 11 or so years I'd be stuck with a useless (to me) rifle. When my kids are big enough to handle the .22 I had as a teenager, they can shoot that.
I guess you haven't actually clicked on the link upthread to the company website. It makes it very clear, through pictures and testimonials (published mind you by the company) that the market is aimed in
large part at very young children (meaning the 4-8 year old set), not "youths".
One testimonial was from a proud parent of a 5 year old shooter; and check out the "kid's corner".
http://www.crickett.com/crickett_kidscorner.php?osCsid=p38cacquj25qhl3gd0mun3ucd5
Some of them seem a trifle young to be handling firearms to you?
Also, the company makes gun-friendly books for kids. The FAQ states that the reading age is "grade 2". Last I checked 15 year olds were generally not in grade 2, not even in Kentucky. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents. You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.
I don't care how well-behaved and sensible a given 4 year old is - they should not, under any circumstances, be using firearms nor being taught how to use them or just handling them. I wouldn't trust a kid that age to cross the street without holding an adult's hand - how on earth are they being trusted with gun safety?
Couldnt agree more and added some.
Hell, I was 10 y/o shooting a 22LR, 14 y/o when I started bird hunting (with a 20 ga.) and deer hunting (Mossberg .308 Winchester) with a high powered rifle. Different culture back then. BTW I still have that 20 ga.
I remember when when I was 8 y/o, my step dad took my mom and me deer hunting up around Susanville, Ca. That was the first time I ever seen a high power rifle being shot. I remember it vividly to this day. He pulled the trigger on that thing (.300 Weatherby) and it seemed the very leaves on the trees shook. Again this from the mind of an 8 y/o who had never seen anything like that before in person. I was scared to shoot that thing. Didn't shoot it till I was 17.
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
Nanny state.
To my mind, a gun user ought to be licenced in the same way as a car driver, and for the same reason - public safety.
I dont disagree with that. People should be licensed to parent kids too.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:50:48 PM
In this case the guns are child sized. They are made for the purpose of being used by children. They are marketed as goods to be used by children.
The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents. You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.
I don't care how well-behaved and sensible a given 4 year old is - they should not, under any circumstances, be using firearms nor being taught how to use them or just handling them. I wouldn't trust a kid that age to cross the street without holding an adult's hand - how on earth are they being trusted with gun safety?
Couldnt agree more and added some.
Hell, I was 10 y/o shooting a 22LR, 14 y/o when I started bird hunting (with a 20 ga.) and deer hunting (Mossberg .308 Winchester) with a high powered rifle. Different culture back then. BTW I still have that 20 ga.
I remember when when I was 8 y/o, my step dad took my mom and me deer hunting up around Susanville, Ca. That was the first time I ever seen a high power rifle being shot. I remember it vividly to this day. He pulled the trigger on that thing (.300 Weatherby) and it seemed the very leaves on the trees shook. Again this from the mind of an 8 y/o who had never seen anything like that before in person. I was scared to shoot that thing. Didn't shoot it till I was 17.
My dad taught me gun safety plinking tin cans with a .22 when I was 12 or so. Back then, though, there was no such thing as classes or licensing requirements here in Ontario. Everyone learned that way.
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:43:54 PM
I guess you haven't actually clicked on the link upthread to the company website. It makes it very clear, through pictures and testimonials (published mind you by the company) that the market is aimed in large part at very young children (meaning the 4-8 year old set), not "youths".
I disagree. Plenty of those kids look older than 8.
QuoteOne testimonial was from a proud parent of a 5 year old shooter; and check out the "kid's corner".
I saw that, and I think that's too young. But it's up to the parent IMO as long as they properly store the rifle and supervise its use.
QuoteAlso, the company makes gun-friendly books for kids. The FAQ states that the reading age is "grade 2". Last I checked 15 year olds were generally not in grade 2, not even in Kentucky. ;)
I guess that would be about 8 years old. Heaven forbid they start teaching kids gun safety at that age!!
Gun safety at age 8 should be "never pick up a gun. Call mom or dad if you see an unattended gun".
And I'm no anti-gun-nut. I have no problem with what you guys are describing - starting to be introduced to a .22 at 10-12 years of age.
It would be difficult to regulate the sale of light-weight firearms. But you absolutely can and should regulate the marketing of firearms, and I would dare say that anything that would indicate a firearm is appropriate for children should be prohibited.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.
Nanny state.
To my mind, a gun user ought to be licenced in the same way as a car driver, and for the same reason - public safety.
I dont disagree with that. People should be licensed to parent kids too.
Not really feasible and certainly wouldn't be beneficial to society.
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 04:09:21 PM
All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.
Its only "legal" in your country because of the way in which Americans break out in a rash when it comes to regulating the sale of guns.
But being technically legal isnt the end of the analysis. Assuming as we must that reasonable regulations will never be made in the US, there is also the law of negligence which comes into play for manfucturers like this. For example, why is it that a gun which is specifically designed to be used by a child doesnt have built into it the kind of trigger lock our resident gun nut was talking about?
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 04:51:15 PM
I disagree. Plenty of those kids look older than 8.
It's the fact that many of them look
less that 8 that concerns me. I assume the actual infants pictured aren't really shooting the things! :hmm: But that still leaves many obviously very young children pictured.
But it is obvious that a large number of customers are buying these things for the under-8 crowd and the company is encouraging that.
QuoteI saw that, and I think that's too young. But it's up to the parent IMO as long as they properly store the rifle and supervise its use.
There is no amount of supervision that makes a 5 year old with a firearm safe, other than not handing it to him or her in the first place.
QuoteI guess that would be about 8 years old. Heaven forbid they start teaching kids gun safety at that age!!
Point is that kids in grade 2 ought not to be using guns at all. Wait until they are actually reliably capable of mature behaviour, why not?
It isn't like you have to indoctrinate kids from birth with gun safety, like some sort of religion.
Taken from their FAQ
QuoteQ. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
If that 22LR had an internal safety lock and it was not engaged, burn the parents.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:03:10 PM
Taken from their FAQ
QuoteQ. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
If that 22LR had an internal safety lock and it was not engaged, burn the parents.
Yeah, lets not blame the peole that profit from selling guns for children. That would be or so unAmerican and smart.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:03:10 PM
Taken from their FAQ
QuoteQ. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
If that 22LR had an internal safety lock and it was not engaged, burn the parents.
Yeah, lets not blame the peole that profit from selling guns for children. That would be or so unAmerican and smart.
Exactly. Thanks for coming around to our view. :cheers: Glad too see your off your Nanny state kick.
Start viewing at 1:50. :mad:
Crickett .22lr Single-shot Bolt-action Rifle Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgqOEkuyMj0
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:08:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:03:10 PM
Taken from their FAQ
QuoteQ. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
If that 22LR had an internal safety lock and it was not engaged, burn the parents.
Yeah, lets not blame the peole that profit from selling guns for children. That would be or so unAmerican and smart.
Exactly. Thanks for coming around to our view. :cheers: Glad too see your off your Nanny state kick.
I am so happy there is a guarded border between us.
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 04:51:15 PM
I disagree. Plenty of those kids look older than 8.
It's the fact that many of them look less that 8 that concerns me. I assume the actual infants pictured aren't really shooting the things! :hmm: But that still leaves many obviously very young children pictured.
But it is obvious that a large number of customers are buying these things for the under-8 crowd and the company is encouraging that.
QuoteI saw that, and I think that's too young. But it's up to the parent IMO as long as they properly store the rifle and supervise its use.
There is no amount of supervision that makes a 5 year old with a firearm safe, other than not handing it to him or her in the first place.
QuoteI guess that would be about 8 years old. Heaven forbid they start teaching kids gun safety at that age!!
Point is that kids in grade 2 ought not to be using guns at all. Wait until they are actually reliably capable of mature behaviour, why not?
It isn't like you have to indoctrinate kids from birth with gun safety, like some sort of religion.
I cant disagree with anything you've said. Sound and reasonable.
CC take note. You could learn something from Malthus.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 04:51:15 PM
I disagree. Plenty of those kids look older than 8.
It's the fact that many of them look less that 8 that concerns me. I assume the actual infants pictured aren't really shooting the things! :hmm: But that still leaves many obviously very young children pictured.
But it is obvious that a large number of customers are buying these things for the under-8 crowd and the company is encouraging that.
QuoteI saw that, and I think that's too young. But it's up to the parent IMO as long as they properly store the rifle and supervise its use.
There is no amount of supervision that makes a 5 year old with a firearm safe, other than not handing it to him or her in the first place.
QuoteI guess that would be about 8 years old. Heaven forbid they start teaching kids gun safety at that age!!
Point is that kids in grade 2 ought not to be using guns at all. Wait until they are actually reliably capable of mature behaviour, why not?
It isn't like you have to indoctrinate kids from birth with gun safety, like some sort of religion.
I cant disagree with anything you've said. Sound and reasonable.
CC take note. You could learn something from Malthus.
Yeah he knows how to communicate better with the great unwashed. I will leave him to it.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 04:51:15 PM
I disagree. Plenty of those kids look older than 8.
It's the fact that many of them look less that 8 that concerns me. I assume the actual infants pictured aren't really shooting the things! :hmm: But that still leaves many obviously very young children pictured.
But it is obvious that a large number of customers are buying these things for the under-8 crowd and the company is encouraging that.
QuoteI saw that, and I think that's too young. But it's up to the parent IMO as long as they properly store the rifle and supervise its use.
There is no amount of supervision that makes a 5 year old with a firearm safe, other than not handing it to him or her in the first place.
QuoteI guess that would be about 8 years old. Heaven forbid they start teaching kids gun safety at that age!!
Point is that kids in grade 2 ought not to be using guns at all. Wait until they are actually reliably capable of mature behaviour, why not?
It isn't like you have to indoctrinate kids from birth with gun safety, like some sort of religion.
I cant disagree with anything you've said. Sound and reasonable.
CC take note. You could learn something from Malthus.
Yeah he knows how to communicate better with the great unwashed. I will leave him to it.
As well you should.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
I am so happy there is a guarded border between us.
You say that not realizing that our guards -- within rifle range of your side -- include entire cadres of 5 year old volunteers armed with their bright pink .22s. :ph34r:
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 05:03:10 PM
Taken from their FAQ
QuoteQ. What is the purpose of the internal safety lock?
A. It's function is to stop the bolt from closing. Therefore impossible to shoot the rifle, when the lock is engaged. Note: Keys are required to unlock the rifle.
If that 22LR had an internal safety lock and it was not engaged, burn the parents.
Yeah, lets not blame the peole that profit from selling guns for children. That would be or so unAmerican and smart.
Would you feel better if it had been a gun made for adults?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 06:07:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
I am so happy there is a guarded border between us.
You say that not realizing that our guards -- within rifle range of your side -- include entire cadres of 5 year old volunteers armed with their bright pink .22s. :ph34r:
:lol:
Good point. I will have to remember to stay outside of rifle range of the border.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
I am so happy there is a guarded border between us.
I'm so happy you turn into a blubbering vagina every time the subject of guns comes up. Pretty amusing :)
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
Would you feel better if it had been a gun made for adults?
I would feel better if companies didnt make guns for children. That would probably reduce the chances that parents would purchase them for children.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 06:09:56 PM
I would feel better if companies didnt make guns for children. That would probably reduce the chances that parents would purchase them for children.
No it wouldn't.
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
It's the fact that many of them look less that 8 that concerns me. I assume the actual infants pictured aren't really shooting the things! :hmm: But that still leaves many obviously very young children pictured.
Fine, but they're not making guns specifically for 4-year olds like you guys were suggesting.
QuoteBut it is obvious that a large number of customers are buying these things for the under-8 crowd and the company is encouraging that.
If I were them I wouldn't put up some of those pics. And the baby ones look flat-out stupid.
Quote
There is no amount of supervision that makes a 5 year old with a firearm safe, other than not handing it to him or her in the first place.
I suppose you could supervise them really, really closely. Like you're practically holding the rifle yourself. But in my own case I agree-- I wouldn't feel safe enough with Tommy handling a loaded firearm.
Quote
Point is that kids in grade 2 ought not to be using guns at all. Wait until they are actually reliably capable of mature behaviour, why not?
Disagree. I will have Tommy shooting a BB gun by that age, under my close supervision.
QuoteIt isn't like you have to indoctrinate kids from birth with gun safety, like some sort of religion.
That's what I'm doing. It would be irresponsible not to.
Spicy is a monster.
You'll shoot your fetus out, kid.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 06:09:56 PM
I would feel better if companies didnt make guns for children. That would probably reduce the chances that parents would purchase them for children.
No it wouldn't.
You might be right. Gun nuts would probably find a way to modify full sized rifles for their children in order to fully exercise their flawed understanding of their rights.
The extreme "Anti-gun Nutter" rhetoric is as entertaining as the "Nutter Extremes" rhetoric. They are just as unintelligible and inarticulate. They push the moderate and casual gun owners away.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Spicy is a monster.
I've been saying it for years, but NOOOOOOOO
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 06:09:56 PM
I would feel better if companies didnt make guns for children. That would probably reduce the chances that parents would purchase them for children.
No it wouldn't.
You might be right. Gun nuts would probably find a way to modify full sized rifles for their children in order to fully exercise their flawed understanding of their rights.
Way ahead of you. Behind the times as usual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber_conversion_sleeve
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2013, 06:25:49 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Spicy is a monster.
I've been saying it for years, but NOOOOOOOO
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FS8Rhp5a.jpg&hash=41d1fd4b9a67bb6f53f42ede94ff0dd1971e256c)
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH My fucking eyes you asshole.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 06:30:16 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH My fucking eyes you asshole.
No kidding. That Tec-9 is a piece of shit.
:lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 06:24:58 PM
The extreme "Anti-gun Nutter" rhetoric is as entertaining as the "Nutter Extremes" rhetoric. They are just as unintelligible and inarticulate. They push the moderate and casual gun owners away.
The problem is that anyone who is in favor of any kind of gun control at all, even that which has been clearly defined by the SC as well within the bounds of the New And Improved Second Amendment, then you get the label of "Anti-gun nutter".
Like thinking we should control guns at all makes someone an anti-gun nutter. I guess we are all anti-car nutters as well, and anti-drug nutters, and anti-explosives nutters, and anti-airplane nutters...
Whine, whine.
Quote from: Berkut on May 01, 2013, 06:37:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 06:24:58 PM
The extreme "Anti-gun Nutter" rhetoric is as entertaining as the "Nutter Extremes" rhetoric. They are just as unintelligible and inarticulate. They push the moderate and casual gun owners away.
The problem is that anyone who is in favor of any kind of gun control at all, even that which has been clearly defined by the SC as well within the bounds of the New And Improved Second Amendment, then you get the label of "Anti-gun nutter".
As well as labelled a "Gun Nut". Maybe all due to the perception and rhetoric of the extremes. You have described the middle ground IMO. It's there and workable, but either sides extreme elements wont let that happen.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2013, 06:24:58 PM
They push the moderate and casual gun owners away.
There shouldn't be "casual" gun owners.
I realize that isn't really what you meant when you used that word but intentionally or not it gets to the problem.
A lot of people who own guns are in fact overly casual about them and that ultimately has very serious and negative consequences when applied across millions of people. And there is no way to solve that problem. No matter how much you push safety there were always be some irreducible minority of screw-ups that will make things dangerous for themselves and those around them. And it is not a negligible percentage.
So as a community we have to make choices about how to balance the legitimate rights and desires of the majority of people who will use this inherently dangerous tool with the proper respect against the reality that a substantial minority won't and never will, thus endangering the community as a whole. That means having a serious discussion/debate about the proper extent of regulation to achieve a reasonable balance.
If the opening bid from the gunowners in that debate is go screw yourself I can do whatever the hell I want - that isn't going to be perceived by those with more restrictive inclinations as reasonable. In fact, it's going to lead those people to conclude that they are dealing with deranged people and the only safe option is draconian regulation.
I am NOT saying that the last paragraph refers to you, or derspiess, or anyone else here.
But I am saying that is the message that I am hearing from the NRA these days and IMO it is poisoning the discourse.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 06:58:32 PM
There shouldn't be "casual" gun owners.
I realize that isn't really what you meant when you used that word but intentionally or not it gets to the problem.
Correct, I'll say ignorant gun owners.
Quote
A lot of people who own guns are in fact overly casual about them and that ultimately has very serious and negative consequences when applied across millions of people. And there is no way to solve that problem.
The morons need to be held accountable for their negligence. Not,"well killing their kid should be enough". Because it isnt enough IMO. Slap them with a felony at least if your not going to jail them.
QuoteNo matter how much you push safety there were always be some irreducible minority of screw-ups that will make things dangerous for themselves and those around them. And it is not a negligible percentage.
True, but new rifles come with cable locks, internal action locks, and so forth. Plus trigger locks/cable locks are cheap. Crush them when it lead's to negligence.
For fucks sake it isnt hard to trigger/cable lock all firearms if you dont own a safe. Hell, even my reloading powder and primers are locked up.
That twat who bought his 5 y/o a 22LR probably looked at the internal action lock key and stated, "Huh, what the hell this for" and tossed it. Even if he hadnt of cleared the rifle properly, hadnt stored it properly, hadnt trigger locked it, but just engaged the internal lock, his daughter would be alive. They probably live in a single wide the fucks.
Quote
So as a community we have to make choices about how to balance the legitimate rights and desires of the majority of people who will use this inherently dangerous tool with the proper respect against the reality that a substantial minority won't and never will, thus endangering the community as a whole. That means having a serious discussion/debate about the proper extent of regulation to achieve a reasonable balance.
Surely, the moderate thinking heads should prevail, but in reality they get drowned out by the extreme elements from both sides.
Quote
I am NOT saying that the last paragraph refers to you, or derspiess, or anyone else here.
But I am saying that is the message that I am hearing from the NRA these days and IMO it is poisoning the discourse.
I count the NRA's current head...an extreme.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 06:58:32 PM
If the opening bid from the gunowners in that debate is go screw yourself I can do whatever the hell I want - that isn't going to be perceived by those with more restrictive inclinations as reasonable. In fact, it's going to lead those people to conclude that they are dealing with deranged people and the only safe option is draconian regulation.
I don't think those with more restrictive inclinations aren't going to find pro-gun types reasonable in any case. We've already been so caricatured by that side that there's no going back.
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?
PUTTING ON THE REICH
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?
PUTTING ON THE REICH
Yeah, I always thought it interesting how "guns" and "militaria" consistently find themselves together at so many shows, like an old Reese's Peanut Butter Cups commercial from the 70s.
YOU GOT YOUR BERETTA IN MY HITLER YOOT KNIFE
YOU GOT YOUR HITLER YOOT KNIFE IN MY BERETTA
*EMBRACE, SURVIVALIST ASS HUMPING, SPOOGE TOGETHER IN 2ND AMENDMENT BLISS*
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?
PUTTING ON THE REICH
Ugh. About the only useful thing I've gotten out of that show recently was having a knife sharpened. Used to be a place to pick up ammo at a decent price. Not going there or to a gun shop until the current silliness blows over.
You can get Soviet shirts there, too FWIW.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.
I just want to be left alone :mellow:
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:56:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?
PUTTING ON THE REICH
Ugh. About the only useful thing I've gotten out of that show recently was having a knife sharpened. Used to be a place to pick up ammo at a decent price. Not going there or to a gun shop until the current silliness blows over.
You can get Soviet shirts there, too FWIW.
I did get some awesome us army manuals on Sov TO&E back in the 90's at one. :)
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.
I just want to be left alone :mellow:
You don't bat an eye when you've got to get your car inspected before you sell it. It's selling your personal property with the government's approval.
But with guns, it's
always different.
Did you guys know the guy who owns the kiddie rifle company owns some other kid toy companies too?
Here's an interview: http://www.hulu.com/watch/115713 (http://www.hulu.com/watch/115713) :cool:
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2013, 08:00:39 PM
I did get some awesome us army manuals on Sov TO&E back in the 90's at one. :)
I scored those too, but at a gaming convention. They're cool as shit.
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2013, 08:01:51 PM
Did you guys know the guy who owns the kiddie rifle company owns some other kid toy companies too?
Here's an interview: http://www.hulu.com/watch/115713 (http://www.hulu.com/watch/115713) :cool:
A young Candy..... :perv: Fuck she was badass back in the day.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.
I just want to be left alone :mellow:
Yes, the regular Republican battle cry.
I just want to be left alone. But it's okay if the police pull over brown people to make sure their papers are in order.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2013, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.
I just want to be left alone :mellow:
Yes, the regular Republican battle cry. I just want to be left alone. But it's okay if the police pull over brown people to make sure their papers are in order.
Ther you go again with the GOP bashing. Like clockwork. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
You don't bat an eye when you've got to get your car inspected before you sell it. It's selling your personal property with the government's approval.
:huh: I've never had to do that.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2013, 08:06:56 PM
Yes, the regular Republican battle cry. I just want to be left alone. But it's okay if the police pull over brown people to make sure their papers are in order.
Hi, Raz.
Cardinals won today-- took the series vs. the Reds :)
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 08:11:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
You don't bat an eye when you've got to get your car inspected before you sell it. It's selling your personal property with the government's approval.
:huh: I've never had to do that.
Not surprising, the backwaters you've lived in.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 08:18:14 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 08:11:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
You don't bat an eye when you've got to get your car inspected before you sell it. It's selling your personal property with the government's approval.
:huh: I've never had to do that.
Not surprising, the backwaters you've lived in.
:lol:
Where is it required, other than MD of course.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
I just want to be left alone :mellow:
How Norml of you.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
I am so happy there is a guarded border between us.
I'm so happy you turn into a blubbering vagina every time the subject of guns comes up. Pretty amusing :)
You make it sounds like you want to have sex with him.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2013, 06:58:32 PM
If the opening bid from the gunowners in that debate is go screw yourself I can do whatever the hell I want - that isn't going to be perceived by those with more restrictive inclinations as reasonable. In fact, it's going to lead those people to conclude that they are dealing with deranged people and the only safe option is draconian regulation.
I don't think those with more restrictive inclinations aren't going to find pro-gun types reasonable in any case. We've already been so caricatured by that side that there's no going back.
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
In this particular case, we aren't even talking about "your" gun rights at all. We are talking about the absurdity of marketing a product in a manner that in inherently unsafe - guns made presumably for "youths" deliberately marketed for and sold to children too young to be capable of using them responsibly. I'd have thought those who cared about responsible gun use would be the first to condemn that.
It would be absurd for any other product not as politicized as guns but also inherently dangerous - absurd for auto manufacturers, absurd for fireworks manufacturers, absurd for makers of machine tools. If you made "junior's first table saw set" in hot pink and showed a 4 year old happily operating it in your "testimonials", would anyone believe that was in any sense OK or be at all surprised when "junior" sawed a few fingers off? Or think "oh well, it is
never too early to learn machine shop safety tips, so the risk of a few of junior's fingers is acceptable"? Or say "well, it is all the parent's fault, shoulda supervised her more closely?" The latter is of course partly true - but there is simply no amount of "supervision" that can guarantee that a 5 year old using a tablesaw isn't going to risk a few fingers (other than keeping them far away from it), so any parent buying the product is by definition a dumbass. The difference of course is that guns are just as likely to kill or maim *someone else* if used improperly, as happened in this case. The marketer of the product should bear some of the blame for deliberately encouraging dangerous behaviour by dumbasses. It is in society's interests that dumbassery be prevented from harming innocents; there are whole rafts of regulations designed to prevent much less obnoxious dumbassery than this - like warning signs on film bags that they aren't to be given to very young children as toys.
You don't have to be "anti-machine-tool" to see that these things are not children's toys and have to be treated with a certain amount of respect. On the contrary. The grizzled veteran tool user, who has almost certainly seen horrific accidents in his or her time caused by a moment's inattention when using these tools, would you would think be the first to say that it isn't okay to have 5 year olds using them.
"A grizzled veteran tool user" :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on May 02, 2013, 08:23:30 AM
"A grizzled veteran tool user" :hmm:
Would that be a "silver fox" or a "bear" in terms you are familiar with? :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on May 02, 2013, 08:15:25 AM
In this particular case, we aren't even talking about "your" gun rights at all.
Minsky & I were talking about the larger issue of gun rights & restrictions.
QuoteWe are talking about the absurdity of marketing a product in a manner that in inherently unsafe - guns made presumably for "youths" deliberately marketed for and sold to children too young to be capable of using them responsibly. I'd have thought those who cared about responsible gun use would be the first to condemn that.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but can we stop saying these are marketed to and sold to children? They are made for children, but marketed to and sold to adults.
QuoteIt would be absurd for any other product not as politicized as guns but also inherently dangerous - absurd for auto manufacturers, absurd for fireworks manufacturers, absurd for makers of machine tools. If you made "junior's first table saw set" in hot pink and showed a 4 year old happily operating it in your "testimonials", would anyone believe that was in any sense OK or be at all surprised when "junior" sawed a few fingers off? Or think "oh well, it is never too early to learn machine shop safety tips, so the risk of a few of junior's fingers is acceptable"? Or say "well, it is all the parent's fault, shoulda supervised her more closely?" The latter is of course partly true - but there is simply no amount of "supervision" that can guarantee that a 5 year old using a tablesaw isn't going to risk a few fingers (other than keeping them far away from it), so any parent buying the product is by definition a dumbass. The difference of course is that guns are just as likely to kill or maim *someone else* if used improperly, as happened in this case. The marketer of the product should bear some of the blame for deliberately encouraging dangerous behaviour by dumbasses. It is in society's interests that dumbassery be prevented from harming innocents; there are whole rafts of regulations designed to prevent much less obnoxious dumbassery than this - like warning signs on film bags that they aren't to be given to very young children as toys.
You don't have to be "anti-machine-tool" to see that these things are not children's toys and have to be treated with a certain amount of respect. On the contrary. The grizzled veteran tool user, who has almost certainly seen horrific accidents in his or her time caused by a moment's inattention when using these tools, would you would think be the first to say that it isn't okay to have 5 year olds using them.
I've said that I think 5 years old is too young an age for shooting firearms. What else do you want me to say?
Quote from: Jacob on May 02, 2013, 12:23:08 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 01, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
I am so happy there is a guarded border between us.
I'm so happy you turn into a blubbering vagina every time the subject of guns comes up. Pretty amusing :)
You make it sounds like you want to have sex with him.
How's that?
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 09:13:50 AM
Minsky & I were talking about the larger issue of gun rights & restrictions.
Fair enough - but this current round of discussion was triggered by this specific incident. It's an example of an area in which a perfectly reasonable call for restrictions is met with a debate.
To those of us who are looking in from outside the US, it creates an impression of absurdity that there would even be a debate about this case.
Quote
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but can we stop saying these are marketed to and sold to children? They are made for children, but marketed to and sold to adults.
It's "marketed to adults" in the same way any toy is.
There was a recent controversy over the inappropriateness of a pole-dancer outfit marketed for 6 year old girls. Sure, it was "marketed to adults" because 6 year old girls don't buy their own clothes, but nonetheless.
Imagine a company making sex toys for 5 year olds. The fact that adults would be buying them doesn't make it any less bizzare and offensive - maybe it makes it worse, because what kind of adult buys a sex toy for a 5 year old?
QuoteI've said that I think 5 years old is too young an age for shooting firearms. What else do you want me to say?
I don't want you to say anything. I'm simply pointing out that calls for regulation in this area are reasonable, and if it involved any other product, there wouldn't even be a debate about it.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:38:42 PM
I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates? Which ones?
Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.
In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.
Except that that happens all the time. I can't sell my homebrew out of the back of my car. Why can you sell your guns?
You all know that I appreciate guns, but I also appreciate being smart about what's allowed to be sold, to whom, and where. I understand the desire to sell your own property without interference, but you can't check to see if the guy you're about to sell your old handgun to is going to walk into his wife's office and blow her away because you don't know that there's a restraining order on him. THAT'S the difference.
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:26:29 AM
Except that that happens all the time. I can't sell my homebrew out of the back of my car. Why can you sell your guns?
You shouldn't be selling anyway. You're supposed to share & trade :)
A better analogy is whether or not you can sell your homebrewing equipment.
QuoteYou all know that I appreciate guns, but I also appreciate being smart about what's allowed to be sold, to whom, and where. I understand the desire to sell your own property without interference, but you can't check to see if the guy you're about to sell your old handgun to is going to walk into his wife's office and blow her away because you don't know that there's a restraining order on him. THAT'S the difference.
I probably wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over such a law, at least the way it was written in the Manchin proposal (exemptions for family members and other situations). But to me it's a matter of property rights.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 09:33:48 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:26:29 AM
Except that that happens all the time. I can't sell my homebrew out of the back of my car. Why can you sell your guns?
You shouldn't be selling anyway. You're supposed to share & trade :)
A better analogy is whether or not you can sell your homebrewing equipment.
No, it's not. The homebrew is mine. I made it. No different than baking cookies or cakes. But, of course, I can't sell any of those things without government interference. We can't have a lemonade stand without a permit in my town, but anyone can sell a firearm anywhere at any time.
That's problematic.
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:38:51 AM
anyone can sell a firearm anywhere at any time.
in Illinois? :hmm:
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 09:33:48 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:26:29 AM
Except that that happens all the time. I can't sell my homebrew out of the back of my car. Why can you sell your guns?
You shouldn't be selling anyway. You're supposed to share & trade :)
A better analogy is whether or not you can sell your homebrewing equipment.
No, it's not. The homebrew is mine. I made it. No different than baking cookies or cakes. But, of course, I can't sell any of those things without government interference. We can't have a lemonade stand without a permit in my town, but anyone can sell a firearm anywhere at any time.
That's problematic.
It is different. Homebrewing culture is such that you just don't sell it-- you share. But getting beyond that, meh-- I think you should be able to sell it if you wanted.
What about meth? Can you sell that?
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 09:46:47 AM
It is different. Homebrewing culture is such that you just don't sell it-- you share. But getting beyond that, meh-- I think you should be able to sell it if you wanted.
Except that there's a reason you can't. Part of it is taxing, sure, but there's also the fact that some homebrews can cause serious health issues. There's the problem of people selling hooch, with no idea what the alcohol percentage is, which can cause problems. There's a host of reasons why these things are regulated. I don't always agree with how heavily regulated they are, but I do understand why they have to at least be regulated some.
It doesn't take a great mental leap to understand why gun sales should be regulated. The reasons are numerous and obvious. And still, there are those who flat-out refuse to acknowledge that some regulation is necessary. As JR and Malthus have said, it's become so politicized that common sense is lost.
And I mean that on both sides. I'm sorry, but those anti-gun nutters are as bad as (if not worse) than the pro-gun nutters. The combination makes the whole situation beyond the pale, and dangerous for everyone else.
Quote from: Caliga on May 02, 2013, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:38:51 AM
anyone can sell a firearm anywhere at any time.
in Illinois? :hmm:
Per federal law you can't sell to anyone out of state absent proper licensing-- all interstate transfers must go through a federal dealer (or to a C&R license-holder if the firearm is classified Curio & Relic). And you can't sell to anyone you have reason to believe is a convicted felon or other dangerous person.
And of course different states/localities have their own restrictions.
Personally, I would only sell or give a handgun to someone I knew fairly well. The only firearms I've ever sold to individuals not through a dealer have been old military surplus bolt-action rifles, which aren't too likely to be used in crimes.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2013, 09:47:39 AM
What about meth? Can you sell that?
In nice bright pink tablets packaged for children. But not to worry children wont actually buy them. Their parents will buy the meth for the children so all is well. Or does that only work for guns? :hmm:
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 09:53:09 AM
Except that there's a reason you can't. Part of it is taxing, sure, but there's also the fact that some homebrews can cause serious health issues. There's the problem of people selling hooch, with no idea what the alcohol percentage is, which can cause problems. There's a host of reasons why these things are regulated. I don't always agree with how heavily regulated they are, but I do understand why they have to at least be regulated some.
I wouldn't have a problem with it being unregulated, below a certain quantity threshold of course.
QuoteIt doesn't take a great mental leap to understand why gun sales should be regulated. The reasons are numerous and obvious. And still, there are those who flat-out refuse to acknowledge that some regulation is necessary. As JR and Malthus have said, it's become so politicized that common sense is lost.
And I mean that on both sides. I'm sorry, but those anti-gun nutters are as bad as (if not worse) than the pro-gun nutters. The combination makes the whole situation beyond the pale, and dangerous for everyone else.
The universal background check thing is not a gun issue to me-- it's a property rights issue. If you're telling me my property rights concern has zero merit then we might as well end the discussion.
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 02, 2013, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2013, 09:47:39 AM
What about meth? Can you sell that?
In nice bright pink tablets packaged for children. But not to worry children wont actually buy them. Their parents will buy the meth for the children so all is well. Or does that only work for guns? :hmm:
Little pink teddy bear shaped pellets of meth, like the kiddie vitamins. ;)
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 09:53:49 AM
Per federal law you can't sell to anyone out of state absent proper licensing-- all interstate transfers must go through a federal dealer (or to a C&R license-holder if the firearm is classified Curio & Relic). And you can't sell to anyone you have reason to believe is a convicted felon or other dangerous person.
And of course different states/localities have their own restrictions.
Personally, I would only sell or give a handgun to someone I knew fairly well. The only firearms I've ever sold to individuals not through a dealer have been old military surplus bolt-action rifles, which aren't too likely to be used in crimes.
That's great. YOU'RE fairly responsible and intelligent. Are you going to assume that everyone is? Or even most people are? Especially those who are so extreme regarding gun ownership?
And you know, even those you know can do stupid shit. All it takes is one cheating spouse for someone to lose their mind. Most people don't brag about restraining orders, so you could easily sell a gun to a "friend" who then decides it's time for her to take her bastard of a husband out for good, even after he's applied to the police for help.
I just don't see the negative to requiring regulation on selling firearms. I really don't. And "I don't wanna" just isn't enough for me.
I have no problem with your gun collection. I take no issue with your joy in shooting them for fun. But there is also nothing wrong with reasonable regulation on who is allowed to get those guns.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 09:58:40 AM
The universal background check thing is not a gun issue to me-- it's a property rights issue. If you're telling me my property rights concern has zero merit then we might as well end the discussion.
I'm saying that property rights do and always have taken second place to the safety of the general population. You jump through a lot more hoops to buy and sell a house than we're talking about here regarding something that can - and often does - lead to a fatality.
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 10:02:37 AM
I'm saying that property rights do and always have taken second place to the safety of the general population.
I disagree.
At a fundamental level, I don't "get" the fascination with guns, but really, I don't have to. I choose to live in a society which emphasizes personal autonomy and the right of individuals to determine what ideas and the things that they value. And since I expect that others will respect (if not agree with) my exercise of personal autonomy, it is only correct and just that I accord similar respect to that exercise by others, even if it manifests in a way that seems peculiar to me. That is in a nutshell the basic social compact that defines America and that is why I ultimately support gun rights, regardless of whatever the Second Amendment actually means.
But there are limits of course - especially where one person's exercise of personal autonomy may harm another. So included in the social compact is the idea that individuals must be prepared to accept reasonable limits on their exercise of personal automony in the interests of all, even if they would rather not. So things like the sale operation of motor vehicles are subject to significant regulation. Or the production and consumption of alchohol. Or the sale and distribution of food. Or the conduct of manufacturing. Or the practice of medicine. Or dozens of other activities or products that have he potential to pose dangers or risks to others.
To what extent any of these activities should be regulated is a question for debate, because it involves the difficult task of balancing competing interests. So there are a variety of legitimate positions that one can take along that continuum.
What is not acceptable is for one group of people to say - my particular manifestiation or exercise of personal autonomy is absolute and inviolable, and any limitation is beyond the pale. Because that is basically another way of saying that the interests of everyone else are not worthy of any respect or consideration at all.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 10:54:39 AM
What is not acceptable is for one group of people to say - my particular manifestiation or exercise of personal autonomy is absolute and inviolable, and any limitation is beyond the pale. Because that is basically another way of saying that the interests of everyone else are not worthy of any respect or consideration at all.
Is anyone saying that? It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
There are a lot of firearms restrictions on the books and I'm fine with nearly all of them. The only ones I can think of that I'd like to change are the federal restriction on short-barrelled (<16") rifles and the weird Ohio limitation on magazine capacity.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 10:54:39 AM
What is not acceptable is for one group of people to say - my particular manifestiation or exercise of personal autonomy is absolute and inviolable, and any limitation is beyond the pale. Because that is basically another way of saying that the interests of everyone else are not worthy of any respect or consideration at all.
Is anyone saying that? It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
There are a lot of firearms restrictions on the books and I'm fine with nearly all of them. The only ones I can think of that I'd like to change are the federal restriction on short-barrelled (<16") rifles and the weird Ohio limitation on magazine capacity.
Incorrect.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/01/alabama-lawmakers-vote-to-ignore-new-federal-gun-control-laws/
QuoteThe Senate passed legislation Tuesday declaring that "All federal acts, laws, orders, rules or regulations regarding firearms are a violation of the Second Amendment." It also says federal laws in violation of the Second Amendment shall be considered null and void in Alabama. The vote was 24-6.
What is incorrect?
Is there any firearms regulation that NRA-ILA supports?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 10:54:39 AM
What is not acceptable is for one group of people to say - my particular manifestiation or exercise of personal autonomy is absolute and inviolable, and any limitation is beyond the pale. Because that is basically another way of saying that the interests of everyone else are not worthy of any respect or consideration at all.
Is anyone saying that? It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
There are a lot of firearms restrictions on the books and I'm fine with nearly all of them. The only ones I can think of that I'd like to change are the federal restriction on short-barrelled (<16") rifles and the weird Ohio limitation on magazine capacity.
Incorrect.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/01/alabama-lawmakers-vote-to-ignore-new-federal-gun-control-laws/
QuoteThe Senate passed legislation Tuesday declaring that "All federal acts, laws, orders, rules or regulations regarding firearms are a violation of the Second Amendment." It also says federal laws in violation of the Second Amendment shall be considered null and void in Alabama. The vote was 24-6.
State's Rights
I believe I posted something similar awhile back about the Missouri legislature.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/us/some-states-try-to-repel-new-federal-gun-laws.html?_r=0
Mo. lawmaker's bill would make it a felony to propose gun control legislation
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/19/mo-bill-felony-propose-gun-control-legislation/
Missouri Lawmakers Advance Gun Bills To Ban Gun Control
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/missouri-gun-bills_n_2776026.html
I thought we sorted out that states rights nonsense 150 years ago.
All of which makes this comment incorrect.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
Quote from: sbr on May 02, 2013, 11:31:22 AM
I thought we sorted out that states rights nonsense 150 years ago.
Apparently not :lmfao:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 11:19:20 AM
Is there any firearms regulation that NRA-ILA supports?
Yeah. Most of the existing regulations.
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 11:31:56 AM
All of which makes this comment incorrect.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
:huh:
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 11:31:56 AM
All of which makes this comment incorrect.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
Democratic process at work. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 02, 2013, 11:24:01 AM
State's Rights
I believe I posted something similar awhile back about the Missouri legislature.
Yes, we had the same issue in Missouri. States don't actually don't have rights as they aren't people. They also can't nullify federal law.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 02, 2013, 11:24:01 AM
State's Rights
I believe I posted something similar awhile back about the Missouri legislature.
Yes, we had the same issue in Missouri. States don't actually don't have rights as they aren't people. They also can't nullify federal law.
Irregardless, I will watch the show to be sure.
The felony one is hilarious.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 02, 2013, 11:40:42 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 11:31:56 AM
All of which makes this comment incorrect.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
Democratic process at work. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
But that isn't the point - the point is that the actual position of the gun rights block in the US is pretty much that ANY control is akin to fascism, and pretty much any means necessary to stop it is warranted, even to the extent of trying to pass laws making it illegal to propose other laws!
That is NOT the democratic process at work. I find it amazing that people can actually look at a law that would make it a felony to propose a law in the interests of protecting their "raits" and not notice the rather glaring irony of it.
It's "rahts", not "raits". Silly New Yorker :rolleyes:
The 2nd Amendment trumps the 1st because it has a bigger number.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Yes, we had the same issue in Missouri. States don't actually don't have rights as they aren't people. They also can't nullify federal law.
It's just a figure of speech. I know it's Languish, but you guys get too hung up on semantics sometimes. States don't technically have "rights", but they have powers, per the 10th amendment.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:51:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Yes, we had the same issue in Missouri. States don't actually don't have rights as they aren't people. They also can't nullify federal law.
It's just a figure of speech. I know it's Languish, but you guys get too hung up on semantics sometimes. States don't technically have "rights", but they have powers, per the 10th amendment.
Okay, setting aside semantics, how can you say that NRA members aren't trying to negate laws already in place while they are doing exactly that at the state level?
It's more then semantics. "Rights" and "Powers" are very different things. "States Rights" advocates conflate the two to give themselves a legal and moral advantage.
Quote from: PDH on May 02, 2013, 11:50:04 AM
The 2nd Amendment trumps the 1st because it has a bigger number.
Also it it's armed and terrorize the other amendments.
Quote from: Berkut on May 02, 2013, 11:44:35 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 02, 2013, 11:40:42 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 11:31:56 AM
All of which makes this comment incorrect.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:01:25 AM
It's not like the NRA nor a majority of gun owners are calling for a repeal of all existing gun laws.
Democratic process at work. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
But that isn't the point - the point is that the actual position of the gun rights block in the US is pretty much that ANY control is akin to fascism, and pretty much any means necessary to stop it is warranted, even to the extent of trying to pass laws making it illegal to propose other laws!
That is NOT the democratic process at work. I find it amazing that people can actually look at a law that would make it a felony to propose a law in the interests of protecting their "raits" and not notice the rather glaring irony of it.
No, but it makes for good entertainment. Could this be similar the the "Pot" issue passed by two states? Didnt that go in the face of Fed Law? I see no difference at the basic level.
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 11:57:03 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:51:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Yes, we had the same issue in Missouri. States don't actually don't have rights as they aren't people. They also can't nullify federal law.
It's just a figure of speech. I know it's Languish, but you guys get too hung up on semantics sometimes. States don't technically have "rights", but they have powers, per the 10th amendment.
Okay, setting aside semantics, how can you say that NRA members aren't trying to negate laws already in place while they are doing exactly that at the state level?
I'm not aware of any NRA efforts in those state-level nullification examples (which I believe are pretty much symbolic measures in any case), nor do I think a majority of NRA members are pushing for them.
If some people who happen to be NRA members sponsored the measures, that doesn't necessarily prove me wrong.
What would prove you wrong?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 12:04:58 PM
What would prove you wrong?
I guess if you found evidence of NRA advocacy to remove all existing firearms regulations or a majority of their members or firearms owners who support that.
I'm sure you have the time to do the research ;)
Quote from: 11B4V on May 02, 2013, 11:24:01 AM
State's Rights
The implication is more sweeping than that. The Second Amendment is incorporated against the states now. If the Second Amendment prohibits all federal legislation, it prohibits all state legislation as well.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 11:19:20 AM
Is there any firearms regulation that NRA-ILA supports?
Yeah. Most of the existing regulations.
Is there any evidence of that? Testimony, fact sheets, press releases? Anything?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 12:20:10 PM
Is there any evidence of that? Testimony, fact sheets, press releases? Anything?
I think we need to get more "existing legislation" in place so the nebulous NRA position can support that without saying it does.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 12:20:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 11:19:20 AM
Is there any firearms regulation that NRA-ILA supports?
Yeah. Most of the existing regulations.
Is there any evidence of that? Testimony, fact sheets, press releases? Anything?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/23/nra-chief-enforce-the-existing-gun-laws/?page=all
QuoteThe National Rifle Association does not plan to support any new gun control measures in the wake of the shooting rampage in Newtown, Conn., the head of the organization said Sunday, arguing that the government should vigorously enforce laws already on the books and reiterating the group's push for more armed guards in schools as part of the solution.
If they're pushing for current laws to be vigorously enforced, I take that to mean they support them.
This was such a fun thread. :(
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2013, 12:42:55 PM
This was such a fun thread. :(
I could post pics of the Russian .223 ammo I picked up at AIM yesterday. Is good quality Russian commercial sporting cartridge.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2013, 12:42:55 PM
This was such a fun thread. :(
I could post pics of the Russian .223 ammo I picked up at AIM yesterday. Is good quality Russian commercial sporting cartridge.
Only if those are age appropriate.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 11:57:03 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 11:51:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Yes, we had the same issue in Missouri. States don't actually don't have rights as they aren't people. They also can't nullify federal law.
It's just a figure of speech. I know it's Languish, but you guys get too hung up on semantics sometimes. States don't technically have "rights", but they have powers, per the 10th amendment.
Okay, setting aside semantics, how can you say that NRA members aren't trying to negate laws already in place while they are doing exactly that at the state level?
I'm not aware of any NRA efforts in those state-level nullification examples (which I believe are pretty much symbolic measures in any case), nor do I think a majority of NRA members are pushing for them.
If some people who happen to be NRA members sponsored the measures, that doesn't necessarily prove me wrong.
This strikes me as semantics. We're discussing gun-supporters, some in the guise of the NRA. You implied - if not said - that gun-supporters are okay with the laws on the books. There are now pushes in various states that say otherwise.
Do you honestly believe that most gun supporters are okay with the gun laws on the books? Because the impression given is that most gun supporters disagree rather vehemently with most, if not all, of the gun laws already in place.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2013, 12:56:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 02, 2013, 12:42:55 PM
This was such a fun thread. :(
I could post pics of the Russian .223 ammo I picked up at AIM yesterday. Is good quality Russian commercial sporting cartridge.
Only if those are age appropriate.
I guess that rules out his
My Little Pony rounds.
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 01:28:30 PM
This strikes me as semantics. We're discussing gun-supporters, some in the guise of the NRA. You implied - if not said - that gun-supporters are okay with the laws on the books. There are now pushes in various states that say otherwise.
Just sticking by what I said, dear.
QuoteDo you honestly believe that most gun supporters are okay with the gun laws on the books? Because the impression given is that most gun supporters disagree rather vehemently with most, if not all, of the gun laws already in place.
That's not my impression.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 01:32:31 PM
Just sticking by what I said, dear.
No prob, boy. I get what you're saying.
Quote
That's not my impression.
Gotcha', nancy. Thanks. :)
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 12:32:31 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/23/nra-chief-enforce-the-existing-gun-laws/?page=all
QuoteThe National Rifle Association does not plan to support any new gun control measures in the wake of the shooting rampage in Newtown, Conn., the head of the organization said Sunday, arguing that the government should vigorously enforce laws already on the books and reiterating the group's push for more armed guards in schools as part of the solution.
That's what the Washington Times said that LaPierre said.
Problem is -- it's not in the transcript. LaPierre didn't say that.
He said a lot about enforcing criminal laws generally, tracking "lunatics" and posting armed guards in schools.
The only gun-related rule he expressed support for was the National Instant Check System, although he confirmed the NRA's position that it need not be used for private sales.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 12:32:31 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/23/nra-chief-enforce-the-existing-gun-laws/?page=all
QuoteThe National Rifle Association does not plan to support any new gun control measures in the wake of the shooting rampage in Newtown, Conn., the head of the organization said Sunday, arguing that the government should vigorously enforce laws already on the books and reiterating the group's push for more armed guards in schools as part of the solution.
That's what the Washington Times said that LaPierre said.
Problem is -- it's not in the transcript. LaPierre didn't say that.
He said a lot about enforcing criminal laws generally, tracking "lunatics" and posting armed guards in schools.
The only gun-related rule he expressed support for was the National Instant Check System, although he confirmed the NRA's position that it need not be used for private sales.
So he has to enumerate every single gun law he wants to be enforced, in order to make you happy?
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 01:47:28 PM
So he has to enumerate every single gun law he wants to be enforced, in order to make you happy?
You were asked to show that the NRA supports the gun laws on the books. It seems fair that if what you site doesn't really do that, it should be called out, doesn't it?
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 01:49:11 PM
You were asked to show that the NRA supports the gun laws on the books. It seems fair that if what you site doesn't really do that, it should be called out, doesn't it?
The NRA has been saying it for years-- anytime new gun control legislation has been brought up. Even their opponents recognize that it's been their stated position. Whether or not you choose to believe the NRA's sincerity is a different issue.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 01:49:11 PM
You were asked to show that the NRA supports the gun laws on the books. It seems fair that if what you site doesn't really do that, it should be called out, doesn't it?
The NRA has been saying it for years-- anytime new gun control legislation has been brought up. Even their opponents recognize that it's been their stated position. Whether or not you choose to believe the NRA's sincerity is a different issue.
I think it's more that we're looking for proof of this support, dear.
I did do some research as Derspeiss requested. Mr LaPierre goes on about a lot of things such as arresting all the gang members in Chicago (why this particular city is targeted is unclear to me), put police in schools, and enforce the laws that exist. The last one is fair enough, the the second one is a bit overboard and the first one is unconstitutional. Focusing on the second two, this would likely require a major increase in taxation. Derspeiss, would you be willing to pay higher taxes see these laws enforced (and maybe hiring police for schools)? Would the rest of the GOP be keen on this.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 02:21:02 PM
I did do some research as Derspeiss requested. Mr LaPierre goes on about a lot of things such as arresting all the gang members in Chicago (why this particular city is targeted is unclear to me), put police in schools, and enforce the laws that exist.
Asking that laws on the books be enforced doesn't necessarily mean that those laws are supported. It simply means that they have accepted that they are fact.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
I just want to be left alone :mellow:
But you're not alone. Why would you act like you are?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 02:21:02 PM
I did do some research as Derspeiss requested. Mr LaPierre goes on about a lot of things such as arresting all the gang members in Chicago (why this particular city is targeted is unclear to me),
You know why. That's Obama's city, a Democrat stronghold, and has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. Many on the pro-gun/conservative side like to point out the high crime rate in Chicago. I'm not as keen on doing that, as I think it's a bit overkill, if you will.
Quoteput police in schools, and enforce the laws that exist. The last one is fair enough, the the second one is a bit overboard and the first one is unconstitutional. Focusing on the second two, this would likely require a major increase in taxation. Derspeiss, would you be willing to pay higher taxes see these laws enforced (and maybe hiring police for schools)? Would the rest of the GOP be keen on this.
Sure. We can just have the rich pay their fair share!
But seriously, regarding enforcement if funding is the obstacle then we should find the money. Preferably via spending cuts elsewhere, but if we have to combine cuts elsewhere with some tax increases to get that done, fine.
Officers in schools I'm a little more lukewarm on. Let the states do it if they choose to.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 01:52:27 PM
The NRA has been saying it for years-- anytime new gun control legislation has been brought up. Even their opponents recognize that it's been their stated position. Whether or not you choose to believe the NRA's sincerity is a different issue.
I don't believe it for two reasons.
First, I haven't seen any affirmative statement of that position.
Second, it manifestly is not true. Some states have assault weapons bans. I know the NRA opposes that. New York doesn't issue handgun licenses to non-residents. I know the NRA opposes that because they sued the state. New York also has a "for cause" only carry law that goes back decades. The NRA opposes that - they filed an amicus brief supporting a federal constitutional challenge. In fact the NRA regularly supports lawsuits challenging existing gun laws.
So looking at the facts - no question there are plenty of existing laws the NRA wants to get rid of. So if anyone claims that there are existing laws the NRA supports, you'll excuse me if I require stronger evidence than a Washington Times misquote.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 01:52:27 PM
The NRA has been saying it for years-- anytime new gun control legislation has been brought up. Even their opponents recognize that it's been their stated position. Whether or not you choose to believe the NRA's sincerity is a different issue.
I don't believe it for two reasons.
First, I haven't seen any affirmative statement of that position.
Second, it manifestly is not true. Some states have assault weapons bans. I know the NRA opposes that. New York doesn't issue handgun licenses to non-residents. I know the NRA opposes that because they sued the state. New York also has a "for cause" only carry law that goes back decades. The NRA opposes that - they filed an amicus brief supporting a federal constitutional challenge. In fact the NRA regularly supports lawsuits challenging existing gun laws.
So looking at the facts - no question there are plenty of existing laws the NRA wants to get rid of. So if anyone claims that there are existing laws the NRA supports, you'll excuse me if I require stronger evidence than a Washington Times misquote.
I was talking about the federal level. Of course they'd like to roll back some laws at the state level.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 03:26:14 PM
I was talking about the federal level. Of course they'd like to roll back some laws at the state level.
That's an exception that swallows the rule. Most regulation of firearms is done on the state level. And the objection against state regulation seems less compelling. Why shouldn't NYC for example be able to have stricter laws on carriage in public places than Montana?
All that exists on the federal level are:
+ The prohibitions against felons, aliens, and fugitives
+ The prohibitions against sales to minors
+ The prohibitions against full auto, silencers, sawed off shotguns and filing off serial numbers
+ recieving, transporting, etc stolen weapons.
That's it other than the Gun Free Schools Act which the NRA used to support but now does not.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 02, 2013, 01:49:11 PM
You were asked to show that the NRA supports the gun laws on the books. It seems fair that if what you site doesn't really do that, it should be called out, doesn't it?
The NRA has been saying it for years-- anytime new gun control legislation has been brought up. Even their opponents recognize that it's been their stated position. Whether or not you choose to believe the NRA's sincerity is a different issue.
It is tough to believe their sincerity when they turn around and do their best to make enforcement of existing laws impossible.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 03:26:14 PM
I was talking about the federal level. Of course they'd like to roll back some laws at the state level.
That's an exception that swallows the rule. Most regulation of firearms is done on the state level. And the objection against state regulation seems less compelling. Why shouldn't NYC for example be able to have stricter laws on carriage in public places than Montana?
All that exists on the federal level are:
+ The prohibitions against felons, aliens, and fugitives
+ The prohibitions against sales to minors
+ The prohibitions against full auto, silencers, sawed off shotguns and filing off serial numbers
+ recieving, transporting, etc stolen weapons.
That's it other than the Gun Free Schools Act which the NRA used to support but now does not.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 03:26:14 PM
I was talking about the federal level. Of course they'd like to roll back some laws at the state level.
That's an exception that swallows the rule. Most regulation of firearms is done on the state level.
But the big publicized fights have been on the federal level. How often do we discuss state laws here?
QuoteAnd the objection against state regulation seems less compelling. Why shouldn't NYC for example be able to have stricter laws on carriage in public places than Montana?
I believe in federalism, so to a certain degree I'm with you. If the people of NY want more restrictive gun laws, that's fine as long as it doesn't violate the 2nd Amendment. But I wouldn't fault the NRA for lobbying on behalf of gun owners there.
QuoteAll that exists on the federal level are:
+ The prohibitions against felons, aliens, and fugitives
+ The prohibitions against sales to minors
+ The prohibitions against full auto, silencers, sawed off shotguns and filing off serial numbers
+ recieving, transporting, etc stolen weapons.
That's it other than the Gun Free Schools Act which the NRA used to support but now does not.
And licensing, importation, etc. That's actually a lot. Much more than my state or any counties.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2013, 02:21:02 PM
I did do some research as Derspeiss requested. Mr LaPierre goes on about a lot of things such as arresting all the gang members in Chicago (why this particular city is targeted is unclear to me),
You know why. That's Obama's city, a Democrat stronghold, and has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. Many on the pro-gun/conservative side like to point out the high crime rate in Chicago. I'm not as keen on doing that, as I think it's a bit overkill, if you will.
Quoteput police in schools, and enforce the laws that exist. The last one is fair enough, the the second one is a bit overboard and the first one is unconstitutional. Focusing on the second two, this would likely require a major increase in taxation. Derspeiss, would you be willing to pay higher taxes see these laws enforced (and maybe hiring police for schools)? Would the rest of the GOP be keen on this.
Sure. We can just have the rich pay their fair share!
But seriously, regarding enforcement if funding is the obstacle then we should find the money. Preferably via spending cuts elsewhere, but if we have to combine cuts elsewhere with some tax increases to get that done, fine.
Officers in schools I'm a little more lukewarm on. Let the states do it if they choose to.
Chicago doesn't have a particularly high crime rate. :mellow: Second, LaPierre says that laws aren't being enforced. The question is why? My guess is funding, and that it's not being funded properly because there isn't enough revenue to go around. There is also the possibility that people who do not like gun control deliberately underfund regulations they don't like. This is extremely common. In fact, I just looked into this, an apparently the NRA has lobbied to weaken the mechanisms and underfund the regulatory bodies to enforce them. You can't say go with the line of "we don't need new laws, we merely need to enforce the old ones" while you are undermining those current laws.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 04:30:42 PM
But the big publicized fights have been on the federal level.
Not since McDonald was decided a couple years ago. Since then, all the action has been with the states.
Witness for example the fight over the new NY state assult weapon/magazine law which spilled over into languish as well.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2013, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2013, 04:30:42 PM
But the big publicized fights have been on the federal level.
Not since McDonald was decided a couple years ago. Since then, all the action has been with the states.
Witness for example the fight over the new NY state assult weapon/magazine law which spilled over into languish as well.
"Spilled" is a bit much. Trickled, maybe.
QuoteNRA's LaPierre: 'We will never surrender our guns'
In a fiery speech Saturday before cheering supporters, the National Rifle Association's Wayne LaPierre took on advocates for new gun laws and said a national background check bill "got the defeat that it deserved."
"We will never surrender our guns, never," LaPierre, the organization's executive vice president, said on the second day of the gun-rights group's convention in Houston, Texas.
He argued that recent mass shootings, including the killing of 26 people at a Connecticut elementary school in December, have been used "to blame us, to shame us, to compromise our freedom for their agenda."
The gun rights lobby's convention was part victory celebration, part pep rally as the NRA's leaders cheered the defeat of a background check bill and said they would oppose any new attempts to pass national legislation on guns.
"Our feet are planted firmly in the foundation of freedom, unswayed by the winds of political and media insanity," LaPierre said. "To the political and media elites who scorn us, we say let them be damned."
A bill supported by President Barack Obama that would have expanded background checks on gun purchases would have done nothing to stop recent mass shootings, LaPierre said. That bill was defeated in the Senate last month.
"The bill wouldn't have prevented Newtown or Aurora," LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president, said in his speech to several thousand attendees. "It won't prevent the next tragedy. None of it has anything to do with keeping our children safer in any school anywhere."
Sen. Pat Toomey, a Republican from Pennsylvania, co-sponsored the background check bill. Toomey has said the bill failed to pass because members of the GOP did not want to hand the White House a policy victory.
LaPierre also referenced the Boston Marathon bombings and subsequent manhunt as an argument for putting guns in the hands of more Americans.
"How many Bostonians wished they had a gun two weeks ago?" LaPierre said. "Boston proves it. When brave law enforcement officers did their jobs in that city so courageously, good guys with guns stopped terrorists with guns."
NRA officials confirmed to NBC News that LaPierre's remarks were the first time the organization had brought up the Boston Marathon bombings in connection with their political fight against new restrictions on guns.
The annual convention was expected to draw about 70,000 people over three days. As many as 550 exhibitors were packed into the George R. Brown Convention Center, bringing with them racks and display cases filled with handguns, rifles, and other firearms.
LaPierre claimed that the NRA's membership stood at 5 million and said the organization aimed to amass 10 million members.
A lifetime membership in the NRA costs $1,000, and the organization was able to claim that both its youngest and its oldest lifetime members were in attendance on Saturday.
Wayne Burd of Arkansas was born in 1917, and was recognized for the second year running as the rifle association's oldest lifetime member. Among the freshest faces present was the group's youngest lifetime member, Elaih Wagan, a 3-year-old from Austin, Texas. Wagan's grandfather purchased a lifetime membership as a gift for the little girl.
I'm glad the NRA isn't going to ever surrender their guns, particularly when, you know, nobody's asking them to.
Politics is all.
:lol:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/05/06/man-arrested-after-trying-to-return-pipe-bomb-at-gun-buyback/
:lol:
Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story
Count down to Anti-Gun nutters in 3, 2, 1, .........
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2013, 10:58:09 AM
Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story
That isn't surprising to me - either that gun crime has fallen (overall violent crime in the US is way down, so it would stand to reason that gun crime was down as well) or that most people would respond in that manner to such a poll, becuase they would probably also get the basic question of "Has violent crime in the US increased in the US?" wrong.
Most people always thinks things are always getting worse.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 08, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Count down to Anti-Gun nutters in 3, 2, 1, .........
What is an anti-gun nutter?
As far as I can tell, it is defined as anyone who doesn't agree with the idea that if 1 gun is good, 48 guns would be a lot better.
Quote from: Berkut on May 08, 2013, 11:25:33 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 08, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Count down to Anti-Gun nutters in 3, 2, 1, .........
What is an anti-gun nutter?
As far as I can tell, it is defined as anyone who doesn't agree with the idea that if 1 gun is good, 48 guns would be a lot better.
CC
Quote from: 11B4V on May 08, 2013, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 08, 2013, 11:25:33 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 08, 2013, 11:09:49 AM
Count down to Anti-Gun nutters in 3, 2, 1, .........
What is an anti-gun nutter?
As far as I can tell, it is defined as anyone who doesn't agree with the idea that if 1 gun is good, 48 guns would be a lot better.
CC
He's just a regular nutter. You should see the things he says in the hockey thread!
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2013, 10:58:09 AM
Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story
Of course Americans think that... the media obsessively over-reports violent crime stories. 'Network' should be required viewing for everyone. :)
Quote from: Barrister on May 08, 2013, 11:37:54 AM
He's just a regular nutter. You should see the things he says in the hockey thread!
:moon: :moon:
btw, now that the Canucks have been eliminated the amount of hockey drivel I will have to listen to will descrease significantly. :)
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2013, 10:58:09 AM
Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study
Financial crimes are up, but Americans think Wall Street's just super, says reality.
Ed, it'll be gone by the time you get there, but AIM has 7.62x39 at about $.29/round:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=abb76239fmj
Don't think they accept silver as payment, though it never hurts to call & ask :D
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2013, 12:43:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2013, 10:58:09 AM
Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study
Financial crimes are up, but Americans think Wall Street's just super, says reality.
No way! Say it ain't so!
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2013, 04:00:23 PM
Ed, it'll be gone by the time you get there, but AIM has 7.62x39 at about $.29/round:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=abb76239fmj
Don't think they accept silver as payment, though it never hurts to call & ask :D
I've already socked away another 2000 rounds. Which gives me around ~3700 total. Considering I use around 300 max per shooting trip,that should do me for awhile.
Build an ammunition fort! :D
Ha. "Now kids, don't misplace daddy's magazines"
I make my kids load my mags. I DON'T CARE IF YOUR THUMBS HURT
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 08, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
Ha. "Now kids, don't misplace daddy's magazines"
The first thing that came into my mind upon seeing that line was "Playboys". :blush:
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 08, 2013, 06:23:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 08, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
Ha. "Now kids, don't misplace daddy's magazines"
The first thing that came into my mind upon seeing that line was "Playboys". :blush:
I keep my 'girls of the Big ten' issue locked away.
Now that parts are starting to become available again at reasonable prices, I think I might start building an AR for my brother. He was going to buy a SIG M400 but with the spare parts I already have I can build the same quality rifle for half of what they cost.
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2013, 06:21:58 PM
I make my kids load my mags. I DON'T CARE IF YOUR THUMBS HURT
Aren't you worried that'll make them legitimate targets when the FBI raids your compound?
Nah, FBI likes me. They even tried to give me a job.
They tried to give Randy Weaver a job too!
Quote from: Razgovory on May 08, 2013, 07:33:33 PM
They tried to give Randy Weaver a job too!
As special agent? :rolleyes:
Anyway, congrats. I figured Seedy would be first to make that crack.
Don't mind him, Razzy. He's just upset he didn't get his Big Benghazigate Cover-up Conspiracy surprise today in the hearings.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2013, 11:46:35 PM
Don't mind him, Razzy. He's just upset he didn't get his Big Benghazigate Cover-up Conspiracy surprise today in the hearings.
Clinton is toast in 2016.
I don't really get teh angst over Benghazi. There is so nothing there as far as anything to get bent out of shape over from a political standpoint.
I mean, this is the party that was in charge at the time of the greatest intelligence failure in the War on Terror ever. And they are griping about Benghazi?
It is so...petty. The kind of politics that nobody cares about except the people who would vote against Clinton if the alternative was Pol Pot.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2013, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2013, 11:46:35 PM
Don't mind him, Razzy. He's just upset he didn't get his Big Benghazigate Cover-up Conspiracy surprise today in the hearings.
Clinton is toast in 2016.
I doubt she'll run.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2013, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2013, 11:46:35 PM
Don't mind him, Razzy. He's just upset he didn't get his Big Benghazigate Cover-up Conspiracy surprise today in the hearings.
Clinton is toast in 2016.
Nonsense.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2013, 05:47:46 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2013, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2013, 11:46:35 PM
Don't mind him, Razzy. He's just upset he didn't get his Big Benghazigate Cover-up Conspiracy surprise today in the hearings.
Clinton is toast in 2016.
Nonsense.
Or more fully, if she is - it isn't over that issue.
But it is indicative of the kind of hatred and bile she riles up on the right, with even more loathing than the Kenyan-in-Chief; they're gonna harp on Benghazi until her second reelection campaign.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2013, 06:32:27 AM
But it is indicative of the kind of hatred and bile she riles up on the right, with even more loathing than the Kenyan-in-Chief; they're gonna harp on Benghazi until her second reelection campaign.
This is interesting though.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/23/record-high-for-hillary-clinton-as-she-faces-little-regarded-congress/
QuoteRepublican antipathy toward Clinton has declined significantly in recent years. As recently as April 2008, 84 percent of Republicans said they had unfavorable views of the then-candidate for president. At the time, that number included 70 percent of Republicans who held "strongly unfavorable" impressions. Now, fewer than half that number — 32 percent — have intensely negative views.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2013, 04:07:41 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2013, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 08, 2013, 11:46:35 PM
Don't mind him, Razzy. He's just upset he didn't get his Big Benghazigate Cover-up Conspiracy surprise today in the hearings.
Clinton is toast in 2016.
I doubt she'll run.
Not now anyway. LOL #whatdifferencedoesitmake
Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2013, 07:22:04 AM
QuoteRepublican antipathy toward Clinton has declined significantly in recent years. As recently as April 2008, 84 percent of Republicans said they had unfavorable views of the then-candidate for president. At the time, that number included 70 percent of Republicans who held "strongly unfavorable" impressions. Now, fewer than half that number — 32 percent — have intensely negative views.
That's only because they've had the one thing worse than a Clinton to keep their attention by driving them bonkers: a black guy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2013, 07:44:43 AM
That's only because they've had the one thing worse than a Clinton to keep their attention by driving them bonkers: a black guy.
Kinda like how Clarence Thomas drives you bonkers?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2013, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2013, 07:22:04 AM
QuoteRepublican antipathy toward Clinton has declined significantly in recent years. As recently as April 2008, 84 percent of Republicans said they had unfavorable views of the then-candidate for president. At the time, that number included 70 percent of Republicans who held "strongly unfavorable" impressions. Now, fewer than half that number — 32 percent — have intensely negative views.
That's only because they've had the one thing worse than a Clinton to keep their attention by driving them bonkers: a black guy.
:hmm:
By April '08, Obama had already crushed Hillary in many states. He was already a credible threat for the presidency by then.
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2013, 07:54:13 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2013, 07:44:43 AM
That's only because they've had the one thing worse than a Clinton to keep their attention by driving them bonkers: a black guy.
Kinda like how Clarence Thomas drives you bonkers?
He'll be outnumbered by 2016, so no fuss no muss.
Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2013, 07:54:48 AM
:hmm:
By April '08, Obama had already crushed Hillary in many states. He was already a credible threat for the presidency by then.
I think Seedy is partly right, though of course for the wrong reason. Many on the right saw Hillary as the lesser of two evils. I gave money to her campaign & Ed switched parties to vote for her. I think that sentiment fermented a bit even after the primary.
Along with that, in her time as Secretary of State she tended not to spout much partisan rhetoric, which helped to soften her image.
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2013, 08:00:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2013, 07:54:48 AM
:hmm:
By April '08, Obama had already crushed Hillary in many states. He was already a credible threat for the presidency by then.
I think Seedy is partly right, though of course for the wrong reason. Many on the right saw Hillary as the lesser of two evils. I gave money to her campaign & Ed switched parties to vote for her. I think that sentiment fermented a bit even after the primary.
My point was that there was still a lot of animus towards Hillary during this time when you were donating to her campaign (aka Obama was viewed as a credible "evil").
Quote from: derspiess on May 09, 2013, 08:00:17 AM
Along with that, in her time as Secretary of State she tended not to spout much partisan rhetoric, which helped to soften her image.
That is true.
SoS usually tries to stay above the partisan fray (usually), and she's been a good soldier in supporting and pursuing Administration policy.
Also she apparently has refrained from killing the White house lawyers this time. I think she deserves credit for that.
Managed to score 1000 rounds of this stuff. Now I won't need that Russian steel-cased stuff I bought a couple weeks ago.
(https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/apmc223fmj55a.jpg)
I see that picture and want to go shooting with the relatives when I next head back to Oregon. :cool:
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 14, 2013, 08:50:22 AM
I see that picture and want to go shooting with the relatives when I next head back to Oregon. :cool:
Bring along some ammo from Uncle Sugar :P
Quote from: derspiess on May 14, 2013, 08:55:38 AM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 14, 2013, 08:50:22 AM
I see that picture and want to go shooting with the relatives when I next head back to Oregon. :cool:
Bring along some ammo from Uncle Sugar :P
My Uncle Terry reloads his own. :D Seriously, I left all my firearms in Oregon with my Dad - so I only go shooting when I am back with the gang. We have an Italian Air Force WWII 6.5mm (I believe from the stamps on the stock that it was for airbase security guys) and now that it's back from the gunsmith, I'd like to take it out and do some plinking.
Only dropped once
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2013, 10:18:11 AM
Only dropped once
:lol: Near as I can tell, it was in pretty good shape. We got it from a friend of the family, a WWII vet who left his gun collection to my grandpa when he passed away - now that Dad is custodian of the 'arsenal' - he's been on a kick to send EVERYTHING to the gunsmith and have it all safe to fire. He's afraid of passing along unsafe guns to anybody, and I concur. However, it's a bit annoying that he won't let me chip in with this - he's taken it on as 'his' project and won't take any $$$ from me or by Bro-in-law. :mad:
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 14, 2013, 10:25:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 14, 2013, 10:18:11 AM
Only dropped once
:lol: Near as I can tell, it was in pretty good shape. We got it from a friend of the family, a WWII vet who left his gun collection to my grandpa when he passed away - now that Dad is custodian of the 'arsenal' - he's been on a kick to send EVERYTHING to the gunsmith and have it all safe to fire. He's afraid of passing along unsafe guns to anybody, and I concur. However, it's a bit annoying that he won't let me chip in with this - he's taken it on as 'his' project and won't take any $$$ from me or by Bro-in-law. :mad:
I bought some headspace gauges to check for myself (other than the headspace, you can more or less eyeball everything). The only problems I've ever run into were with Mausers. They were built to fairly tight tolerances and when bolts got switched around at the armory or depot when they were captured you had mismatched bolts.
All the Mosin-Nagants I've owned through the years have passed headspace checks (will close on go, won't close on no-go) with flying colors.
I've never shot a Carcano-- they looks like fun little rifles to shoot.
I just bought a couple guns on my phone. They should be delivered to my house by Thursday :whatacountry:
Did you order a drum magazine for the little one's Crickett?
"Intelligent" Rifle Makes A Perfect Shot EVERYTIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme3OS01yqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Gwq5KIE8s
Quote from: 11B4V on May 18, 2013, 12:53:25 AM
"Intelligent" Rifle Makes A Perfect Shot EVERYTIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme3OS01yqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Gwq5KIE8s
Huh. That's interesting. I wonder if you can "tag" multiple targets, then basically just swing the rifle across them while holding down the trigger and letting it fire for you when it is supposed to. I guess it would require at least a semi-auto, but :blink: if possible.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 18, 2013, 01:19:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 18, 2013, 12:53:25 AM
"Intelligent" Rifle Makes A Perfect Shot EVERYTIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme3OS01yqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Gwq5KIE8s
Huh. That's interesting. I wonder if you can "tag" multiple targets, then basically just swing the rifle across them while holding down the trigger and letting it fire for you when it is supposed to. I guess it would require at least a semi-auto, but :blink: if possible.
I'm still like :huh: on this thing. I see no application for this outside the military or police right now. I would also bet, that this is already being tested by the military. No proof, just hunch.
It does allow, with a fraction of the training of normal snipers, an unprecedented first round hit capability out 1000-1200meters or so. However this range will most likely extend with follow on models.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 18, 2013, 01:51:46 AM
I'm still like :huh: on this thing. I see no application for this outside the military or police right now. I would also bet, that this is already being tested by the military. No proof, just hunch.
It does allow, with a fraction of the training of normal snipers, an unprecedented first round hit capability out 1000-1200meters or so. However this range will most likely extend with follow on models.
Oh there's no real use for it outside of military or police that I can think of. I guess if you're an asshole, you can go hunting with it, but what else is there? Some sort of range hero? That would get old fast, right?
Yes it would get boring at least to me, but I'm not a nut.
The caliber of the rifle this system is mounted on is .338 Lapua. That being said, a trained sniper has already taken out a target at over 2400 meters with is caliber on a normal sniper system (5-25 power scope). Mount this to a high quality Barrett or Mcmillan .50 BMG caliber rifle, and well, not to hard to figure that out.
Not anymore; now we can do both! According to the military, a sniper takes years to train and perfect. Now, watch out! Here comes Tracking point! We can train any knob to take a 1000 meter target out in six minutes!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.threadbombing.com%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F31%2F2m8BXUfrin7x81ygtWPKU0Vbo1_500.jpg&hash=13b838020b59d6b74b32079ca0d437ef450c7f47)
Sorry had to.
Completely inappropriate Star Trek reference pic. That's a canon violation for you.
At the very least get the uniform right for the quote.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120316182542%2Fmemoryalpha%2Fen%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fbd%2FLeonard_McCoy%2C_2293.jpg&hash=745b4128acdb5dce34d275eb4200a6ace0393ff1)
I can't really see any uses for this gun beyond the military and the police.
By golly!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 18, 2013, 06:23:34 AM
Completely inappropriate Star Trek reference pic. That's a canon violation for you.
:lol: We notice the uniform violation.
Not that there's a system that would allow even Raz to place a shot accurately @ 1000m. THAT doesnt matter. :P
Quote from: garbon on May 18, 2013, 08:36:15 AM
I can't really see any uses for this gun beyond the military and the police.
By golly!
The gun itself is fine for all sorts of things. The crazy tracking system that makes perfect shots every time, not so much.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 18, 2013, 01:55:33 AM
I guess if you're an asshole, you can go hunting with it, but what else is there?
I don't think you'd be an asshole if you're trying to get the most accurate, humane kill possible.
Anyway I don't see this replacing trained snipers. It looks like it automates just a couple aspects of shooting.
Quote from: derspiess on May 18, 2013, 02:57:05 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 18, 2013, 01:55:33 AM
I guess if you're an asshole, you can go hunting with it, but what else is there?
I don't think you'd be an asshole if you're trying to get the most accurate, humane kill possible.
Anyway I don't see this replacing trained snipers. It looks like it automates just a couple aspects of shooting.
Might as well just get your meat at the supermarket if you're otherwise going to be using a computer to pop animals from 1000m away.
I was amused by Dr. McCoy.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 18, 2013, 03:08:33 PM
I was amused by Dr. McCoy.
He's not a comedian, he's a doctor dammit!
:lol: :lol:
Town Sued for Requiring Residents to Own Guns
Quote(Newser) – The tiny town of Nelson, Georgia, is facing a court battle after passing a law that requires all households to own a gun and ammunition. The DC-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence had filed a federal lawsuit against the town on the grounds that the law, which was passed in April, is unconstitutional, and violates the 1st and 14th Amendments, reports CNN. "Forcing residents to buy guns they do not want or need won't make the City of Nelson or its people any safer, and only serves to increase gun sales and gun industry profits," said a spokesman in a statement.
But town leaders say the law is largely symbolic, is not actually being enforced, and anyone who opposes gun ownership on moral or religious grounds can opt out, reports Fox News. Advocates of the law say it's more of a statement about the lax police protection offered to the 1,300-resident town, and a protest against the push toward stricter gun control at a federal level.
Ugh.
QuoteHofstra Student in Home Invasion Was Killed by Police Gunshot: Officials
The 21-year-old Hofstra student who was killed during a Long Island home invasion was shot dead by a police officer as the gunman had her in a headlock and was trying to drag her out of the house, officials said Saturday.
Nassau County Police said at a news conference Andrea Rebello was killed by police, not by the armed gunman who was trying to rob the off-campus house where she was living with her twin sister, Jessica, and several others.
Rebello, a Hofstra junior studying public relations, and suspect Dalton Smith, 30, were both shot and killed as he was trying to back away from police with a gun to her head, police said.
An officer fired eight rounds, seven of which hit the suspect and one that hit Rebello in the head, police said.
Police said the officer that fired the fatal shots is a former NYPD cop who has been with the Nassau department for 12 years.
Police said Smith had gotten into the house through a front door that was left open. He forced three women and a man who lived in the home upstairs at gunpoint to get money and jewelry.
They did not have a lot of money at the home, and Smith told one of the women to go withdraw money from the bank, threatening that he would kill one of her friends if she didn't return in eight minutes, according to police.
She called 911 as she drove to the bank and did not return to the home.
Police responded shortly after the 911 call. When they arrived, Smith told one of the hostages, the twin sister of the woman who was later shot, to go downstairs and tell police everything was OK. When she opened the door, she ran out and told officers there was a man with a gun.
Police said two officers then entered the house and went up a narrow staircase. At that point, one of the officers saw Smith with Rebello in a headlock, and Smith pointed a gun at the officer.
The officer then fired the fatal shots, police said.
Smith was released on parole in February after serving time for first-degree robbery and has a lengthy criminal record that includes assault, police said. A warrant for his arrest was issued last month for parole violation.
Police identified the gunman through fingerprint analysis.
Andrea Rebello and her sister were 2010 graduates of Sleepy Hollow High School, according to principal Carol Conklin-Spillane.
"They were smart happy beautiful young women," Conklin-Spillane said. "I speak about them together because they were very much a matched pair. They were best friends by choice."
That has to be the worst call a cop would have to make...the perp has a hostage, but is pointing the gun at you.
Is that a typical number of rounds to shoot off?
Then you don't take the shot.
QuoteRebello, a Hofstra junior studying public relations, and suspect Dalton Smith, 30, were both shot and killed as he was trying to back away from police with a gun to her head, police said.
QuotePolice said two officers then entered the house and went up a narrow staircase. At that point, one of the officers saw Smith with Rebello in a headlock, and Smith pointed a gun at the officer.
Hmmm
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 19, 2013, 11:08:32 AM
That has to be the worst call a cop would have to make...the perp has a hostage, but is pointing the gun at you.
I think I remember this happening in one of the Police Quest games.... :hmm:
QuotePolice said the officer that fired the fatal shots is a former NYPD cop who has been with the Nassau department for 12 years.
Probably hasn't fired a shot in years. Service holster probably has dust bunnies in it. It was a bad call.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2013, 08:36:01 AM
Probably hasn't fired a shot in years.
:huh:
Obviously you would know better than me but I thought cops had to practice?
Seriously, what is the cop supposed to do if the perp is pointing the gun at him? I assume the cop wasn't wearing a head-to-toe armor with bullet-proof goggles. Getting himself killed wouldn't make the situation any better for the hostage. Besides, he was 87.5% accurate in such a difficult situation, which is otherwise pretty impressive.
Quote from: Caliga on May 20, 2013, 08:39:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2013, 08:36:01 AM
Probably hasn't fired a shot in years.
:huh:
Obviously you would know better than me but I thought cops had to practice?
Practice is practice. I've known cops that have won state pistol championships, but in a real-life situation I wouldn't trust them beyond dropping their gun and kicking it to The Bad Guy by accident.
Again, the cop hit the target 7/8 times, while it was behind the human shield. Yeah, that one miss was extremely tragic, but that performance is hardly worse than usual. NYPD cops would fire off two clips, hit the target twice, hit the human shield three times, and then twice more when she's on the ground.
Quote from: DGuller on May 20, 2013, 08:44:25 AM
Seriously, what is the cop supposed to do if the perp is pointing the gun at him? I assume the cop wasn't wearing a head-to-toe armor with bullet-proof goggles. Getting himself killed wouldn't make the situation any better for the hostage. Besides, he was 87.5% accurate in such a difficult situation, which is otherwise pretty impressive.
Well, in my view this poor girl was murdered by the hostage taker, not the cop. I'm sure that doesn't do much to mitigate the guilt the cop must be feeling though. :(
Quote from: 11B4V on May 18, 2013, 12:53:25 AM
"Intelligent" Rifle Makes A Perfect Shot EVERYTIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme3OS01yqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Gwq5KIE8s
That is fucking awesome.
Quote from: Caliga on May 20, 2013, 09:20:51 AM
Well, in my view this poor girl was murdered by the hostage taker, not the cop.
The internal review board may not see it your way.
Quote from: Caliga on May 20, 2013, 09:20:51 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 20, 2013, 08:44:25 AM
Seriously, what is the cop supposed to do if the perp is pointing the gun at him? I assume the cop wasn't wearing a head-to-toe armor with bullet-proof goggles. Getting himself killed wouldn't make the situation any better for the hostage. Besides, he was 87.5% accurate in such a difficult situation, which is otherwise pretty impressive.
Well, in my view this poor girl was murdered by the hostage taker, not the cop. I'm sure that doesn't do much to mitigate the guilt the cop must be feeling though. :(
No kidding.
This doesn't sound like the canonical movie "Do I take the single shot to shoot the bad guy between the eyes" situation, but more of a "Hey, what is going on here, there is bad guy, I have my gun out, lets see what is up these stai....HOLY SHIT BANGBANGBANGBGNAGBGAN".
That officer didn't kill that girl, the bad guy did.
Quote from: derspiess on May 18, 2013, 02:57:05 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 18, 2013, 01:55:33 AM
I guess if you're an asshole, you can go hunting with it, but what else is there?
I don't think you'd be an asshole if you're trying to get the most accurate, humane kill possible.
Anyway I don't see this replacing trained snipers. It looks like it automates just a couple aspects of shooting.
I think there is a lot here that is pretty interesting, both as a whole and in parts.
The HUD in the scope alone (even without the "perfect shot" tool) is pretty incredible. If you can pipe the output to an ipad, you can pipe it a lot further than that. The applications of that are kind of staggering for military or police.
Add this to a IR scope, and you can shoot things in the fucking dark a klick away, without the need to be a expertly trained sniper.
You can use this for recon of course, with the output being sent...wherever you want it sent. One shot kills are nice, but hook this up to a Berret, and you have a 1-shot ability to disable many vehicles.
I dunno, the applications for the ability to dump the visual scope output to a exterior device is pretty damn cool. Maybe the military already has that though.
It's a shame we have no one important to use these things on. :(
Quote from: Berkut on May 20, 2013, 09:53:21 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 20, 2013, 09:20:51 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 20, 2013, 08:44:25 AM
Seriously, what is the cop supposed to do if the perp is pointing the gun at him? I assume the cop wasn't wearing a head-to-toe armor with bullet-proof goggles. Getting himself killed wouldn't make the situation any better for the hostage. Besides, he was 87.5% accurate in such a difficult situation, which is otherwise pretty impressive.
Well, in my view this poor girl was murdered by the hostage taker, not the cop. I'm sure that doesn't do much to mitigate the guilt the cop must be feeling though. :(
No kidding.
This doesn't sound like the canonical movie "Do I take the single shot to shoot the bad guy between the eyes" situation, but more of a "Hey, what is going on here, there is bad guy, I have my gun out, lets see what is up these stai....HOLY SHIT BANGBANGBANGBGNAGBGAN".
That officer didn't kill that girl, the bad guy did.
Indeed. The most you could possibly fault the cop on is not backing off and letting it resolve into the 99-times-out-of-100 hostage situation where the guy gives up after several hours...but, unfortunately, this appears to be a "enter the house, stumble onto the perp/hostage, oh shit, guns are out" situation without a possible cool-down period.
QuoteWith high-tech guns, users could disable remotely
May 21, 2013 2:42 PM ET
By By MARTHA MENDOZA
SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A high-tech startup is wading into the gun control debate with a wireless controller that would allow gun owners to know when their weapon is being moved - and disable it remotely.
The technology, but not an actual gun, was demonstrated Tuesday at a wireless technology conference in Las Vegas and was shown to The Associated Press in advance. It comes at a time when lawmakers around the U.S. are considering contentious smart gun laws that would require new guns to include high-tech devices that limit who can fire them.
The new Yardarm Technologies LLC system would trigger an alarm on an owner's cellphone if a gun is moved, and the owner could then hit a button to activate the safety and disable the weapon. New guns would come with a microchip on the body and antennas winding around the grip. It would add about $50 to the cost of a gun, and about $12 a year for the service.
"The idea is to connect gun owners more directly with their guns, no matter what the circumstance," said Yardarm CEO Robert Stewart.
The Yardarm system is one of several recently introduced high-tech offerings: the iGun only fires if it recognizes a ring on a finger, the Intelligun uses a fingerprint locking system and TriggerSmart uses radio frequency identification.
The first smart guns were proposed more than 20 years ago, but they failed to take off for several reasons: questionable technology, added costs and concerns from some gun rights about limitations on Second Amendment rights.
Recent high-profile shootings, combined with new technologies, have revived interest. Sandy Hook Promise, a nonprofit created by Newtown, Conn., community members, is offering venture capital for new gun safety technologies, and President Barack Obama included smart guns as part of his plan to reduce gun violence.
Stewart said his company has addressed privacy concerns about its system, which would not only include live tracking but also a history of where a gun has been. Yardarm has an exclusive telephony network to avoid hackers and spotty wireless systems, and gun owners could "self-destruct" the technology on the guns themselves if they wish, he said.
National Rifle Association spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said his organization is concerned about added costs and the reliability of smart guns in general.
"We believe that the technology does not exist today where a so-called smart gun can operate with 100 percent or close to it reliability," he said, "and a firearm that does not function when it is required to is not a smart gun."
The added costs are "a luxury tax on self-defense," Arulanandam said.
At this point, there are no guns that can be wirelessly tracked or disabled, but there are systems that can locate and disable stolen cars. In 2011, one such company, OnStar LLC, came under fire for continuing to track customers' locations even after they discontinued their service. The company reversed the policy after a barrage of privacy complaints.
Last week, lawmakers in California and Massachusetts considered proposals to require gun makers to add high tech safety devices that allow only their owners to fire them. New Jersey has adopted a similar law.
Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the nonprofit Violence Policy Center, said his organization has no position on smart guns. However, he said he does oppose federal tax dollars for their research because they wouldn't impact the 310 million firearms already circulating in the U.S. today.
Donald Sebastian, a senior vice president at the New Jersey Institute of Technology, is developing a smart gun aftermarket conversion that would work on semi-automatic weapons, and he said the public may be ready for widespread adoption of smart guns.
"It's been a long, tough battle to get any acceptance of technologies in weapons, but today there's just more general acceptance of electronics in our lives, more than even five years ago," he said. "Also, frankly, this whole stream of mass killings is really making people recognize the need for something to change."
Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
My new bike
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYJzY9Ub.jpg&hash=a1b0726360afb0a8dbf7efaebf5da4d6e1bdfb23)
Thought yours had 3 or 4 wheels. Little ones.
HA HA ED IS A CRIPPLE
I'm jealous. I never even got to ride on a Rascal :mellow:
I never have either. Or a Hoveround.
I bet you used some slick-looking canes, though.
Is that Elvis on the back seat?
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2013, 07:04:06 PM
I bet you used some slick-looking canes, though.
A quad cane. I was pimpin'. And a walker.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 21, 2013, 07:04:43 PM
Is that Elvis on the back seat?
Josef Mengele. He and
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 21, 2013, 07:05:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2013, 07:04:06 PM
I bet you used some slick-looking canes, though.
A quad cane. I was pimpin'. And a walker.
So you were Marty Crane, then Herbert the Pervert :thumbsup:
I had a rented wheelchair (which was hideously expensive) and best yet, my own potty chair. My wife got the pleasure of wiping my ass for close to nine months.
Looks like the firearms market is starting to edge a little closer to normal, at least in terms of availability. Prices should go back down whenever dealers realize the good ol' gouging days are over. Ammo is showing up more often and staying in stock longer, and prices are down ever so slightly. Secondary market for both is starting to crater.
QuoteThe TSA announced a dubious record this week, reporting that it had seized 65 firearms at airport security checkpoints.
The seizures buried the previous mark of 50 guns, the TSA reported, and included 54 loaded weapons -- 19 of which at rounds chambered.
Among the seizures was a firearm strapped to the prosthetic leg of a male passenger at Salt Lake City International Airport.
Authorities said the passenger received a pat-down after an anomaly was detected during advanced imaging technology screening.
During the pat-down, officers discovered a fully loaded .22 caliber firearm inside the passenger's boot and strapped to his prosthetic leg.
The man was arrested by Salt Lake City Airport Police on a state charge of "carrying a concealed weapon in a secure area."
The transportation lobbying group AAA estimates that 2.3 million travelers were expected to fly during the Memorial Day weekend.
WTF? Are all those people absent-minded concealed carriers, in which case it's an amusing piece of karma, or are there that many wannabe terrorists out there?
Here's your feel-good story of the day, derpastrygun.
QuoteNRA membership given to boy suspended in pastry incident
Arundel Republicans buy lifetime membership for boy who nibbled food into shape of gun
By Erin Cox, The Baltimore Sun
9:54 p.m. EDT, May 29, 2013
The 8-year-old Anne Arundel County boy who was suspended for biting a pastry in to the shape of a gun received standing ovation and a lifetime membership to the National Rifle Association Wednesday night.
At a fundraiser for Anne Arundel County Republicans, House Minority Leader Nicholaus R. Kipke presented Josh Welch with the membership, which cost $550, during a tongue-in-cheek presentation that involved a Pop-Tart fashioned into pistol and gun safety tips.
Josh's March 1 suspension from Park Elementary School for chewing a pastry into the shape of a firearm captured national attention over how seriously students should be punished for such threats.
Josh, who was 7 at time he was suspended for two days, gave the NRA certificate to his parents at the Glen Burnie event and returned to playing games on a cellphone.
"Everyone keeps asking me why I did it," Josh said. "I don't know why I did it. ... I wish people would stop asking me about it. It'll probably go on for 45 years or something."
Josh said he didn't know what the NRA was or what it meant to have a membership, but chimed in when his parents were asked whether anyone else in his family belonged to the NRA.
"Nope, only me," he said.
An attorney has filed an appeal to expunge the suspension from Josh's record. Anne Arundel County schools spokesman Bob Mosier said Wednesday that he could not comment on the status of the appeal.
Josh also received an autographed photo of himself with David Keene, the immediate past president of the NRA and the keynote speaker at the fundraiser.
You know, not for nothing, but that is just a casebook example of how fucked up the NRA is - that their paranoia is so acute that they think this is actually a meaningful story.
Quote from: Berkut on May 29, 2013, 09:56:21 PM
You know, not for nothing, but that is just a casebook example of how fucked up the NRA is - that their paranoia is so acute that they think this is actually a meaningful story.
Seedy apparently agreed that it was meaningful, for whatever that's worth.
In other news, I bought two of these for the hell of it. They should hold up better than the 3-D printed variety :D
(https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/resized/F1SASLGEN2.jpg)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2013, 09:52:34 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 20, 2013, 09:20:51 AM
Well, in my view this poor girl was murdered by the hostage taker, not the cop.
The internal review board may not see it your way.
Hostage taking was never brought up in any of my classes. What does the average beat cop do there?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 29, 2013, 10:21:57 PM
Hostage taking was never brought up in any of my classes. What does the average beat cop do there?
Call his FOP lawyer.
Wow. This guy's a real winner...
Quote
Clark Aposhian, Utah Gun Lobby Chief, Arrested On Domestic Violence Charge
When Aposhian received a call from his ex-wife's husband asking him not to return, he allegedly responded by saying he'd go wherever he pleased and would run over their cars and "bury" him, the AP reports.
When he returned to the house in a different car, reportedly to offer to clean up any tire marks he may have left, he was booked by police who had been called to the scene, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. Officers confiscated the weapon he had with him and charged him with trespassing, harassment, domestic violence, failure to appear in court and for multiple outstanding traffic violations. He posted bail later on Monday.
Aposhian has adamantly denied the story given by his ex-wife and her husband, telling The Salt Lake Tribune that it is "so far removed from any semblance of truth as to be categorized in the bizarro world." His attorney, Mitch Vilos, told Utah's KSL-TV that he had witnesses to corroborate Aposhian's version of events and was sure his client would be "vindicated." That said, Vilos admitted to the Tribune that Aposhian's career as a firearms advocate could be destroyed if he is found guilty.
"It would be ruinous to this man's profession," Vilos said. "I would blame the Cottonwood Heights police for doing an incompetent investigation."
Under state law, a domestic violence conviction could force Aposhian to turn over his guns, his concealed-weapons permit and concealed-carry instructor's license. It could also potentially cause others to scrutinize his leadership roles on a number of Utah gun groups.
Aposhian has emerged as a controversial figure amid the resurgent debate over guns in the wake of last year's massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. In December, he held a special concealed carry permit class for 200 Utah educators, insisting that equipping teachers with guns would make classrooms safer. Utah law currently allows for a person to have a loaded weapon inside a school.
While Aposhian has made a living in part by teaching people how to secure their weapons, he himself fell victim to theft in March, when he reported that an AR-15 rifle with a thermal-imaging scope had been stolen from a lockbox inside his vehicle
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 04:15:52 PM
Wow. This guy's a real winner...
Quote
Clark Aposhian, Utah Gun Lobby Chief, Arrested On Domestic Violence Charge
When Aposhian received a call from his ex-wife's husband asking him not to return, he allegedly responded by saying he'd go wherever he pleased and would run over their cars and "bury" him, the AP reports.
When he returned to the house in a different car, reportedly to offer to clean up any tire marks he may have left, he was booked by police who had been called to the scene, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. Officers confiscated the weapon he had with him and charged him with trespassing, harassment, domestic violence, failure to appear in court and for multiple outstanding traffic violations. He posted bail later on Monday.
Aposhian has adamantly denied the story given by his ex-wife and her husband, telling The Salt Lake Tribune that it is "so far removed from any semblance of truth as to be categorized in the bizarro world." His attorney, Mitch Vilos, told Utah's KSL-TV that he had witnesses to corroborate Aposhian's version of events and was sure his client would be "vindicated." That said, Vilos admitted to the Tribune that Aposhian's career as a firearms advocate could be destroyed if he is found guilty.
"It would be ruinous to this man's profession," Vilos said. "I would blame the Cottonwood Heights police for doing an incompetent investigation."
Under state law, a domestic violence conviction could force Aposhian to turn over his guns, his concealed-weapons permit and concealed-carry instructor's license. It could also potentially cause others to scrutinize his leadership roles on a number of Utah gun groups.
Aposhian has emerged as a controversial figure amid the resurgent debate over guns in the wake of last year's massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. In December, he held a special concealed carry permit class for 200 Utah educators, insisting that equipping teachers with guns would make classrooms safer. Utah law currently allows for a person to have a loaded weapon inside a school.
While Aposhian has made a living in part by teaching people how to secure their weapons, he himself fell victim to theft in March, when he reported that an AR-15 rifle with a thermal-imaging scope had been stolen from a lockbox inside his vehicle
Where is this article from? Sounds flakey. Looks like a "he said she said" at this point.
More like he said, she and the entire town police force said.
This is the story his lawyer gives
QuoteVilos said Aposhian was in the neighborhood to talk to some friends and that he was driving around with a friend of his in his flag-draped truck to celebrate Memorial Day. Aposhian did use the driveway of the woman's house to turn around, but it was only because the truck was so big
Usually in lawyer school they teach you to say "no comment" when the alternative is giving a story this stupid.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 30, 2013, 07:11:14 PM
More like he said, she and the entire town police force said.
They did?
Quote from: 11B4V on May 30, 2013, 05:50:25 PM
Where is this article from? Sounds flakey. Looks like a "he said she said" at this point.
A quick Google search shows that FOX13 in Salt Lake is reporting it like this.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 30, 2013, 05:50:25 PM
Where is this article from? Sounds flakey. Looks like a "he said she said" at this point.
I think this is it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/clark-aposhian-arrested_n_3360334.html?utm_hp_ref=politics It's always a good idea to give the source.
The article does source it's statements. Apparently he drives around an old Deuce and half truck with the words "CTWD Heights Neighborhood watch" and "Zombie Response Vehicle" stenciled on there.
Here is the local news story http://fox13now.com/2013/05/28/utah-gun-rights-advocate-clark-aposhian-arrested/
Domestic violence isn't a very serious crime, but it's a good idea to throw the book at gun nuts.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 30, 2013, 05:50:25 PM
Where is this article from? Sounds flakey. Looks like a "he said she said" at this point.
I think this is it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/clark-aposhian-arrested_n_3360334.html?utm_hp_ref=politics It's always a good idea to give the source.
The article does source it's statements. Apparently he drives around an old Deuce and half truck with the words "CTWD Heights Neighborhood watch" and "Zombie Response Vehicle" stenciled on there.
Here is the local news story http://fox13now.com/2013/05/28/utah-gun-rights-advocate-clark-aposhian-arrested/
:lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on May 30, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 30, 2013, 05:50:25 PM
Where is this article from? Sounds flakey. Looks like a "he said she said" at this point.
I think this is it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/clark-aposhian-arrested_n_3360334.html?utm_hp_ref=politics It's always a good idea to give the source.
The article does source it's statements. Apparently he drives around an old Deuce and half truck with the words "CTWD Heights Neighborhood watch" and "Zombie Response Vehicle" stenciled on there.
Here is the local news story http://fox13now.com/2013/05/28/utah-gun-rights-advocate-clark-aposhian-arrested/
:lol:
Yeah. FFS :bleeding:
HE'S NOT WITH US
Quote from: derspiess on May 30, 2013, 09:28:17 PM
Yeah. FFS :bleeding:
HE'S NOT WITH US
Hell, he's your top talking head. He IS you. :D
Not amused, dear :glare:
Quote from: derspiess on May 30, 2013, 10:40:33 PM
Not amused, dear :glare:
They got to make it stick to that knucklehead. I bet money he pleads down on the DV or it's dropped.
It's just that the "Anti-Gun Nutters" get all lathered up over pretty much anything nowadays and are no closer to their agenda. :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on May 30, 2013, 10:40:33 PM
Not amused, dear :glare:
It's okay, precious. I'm amused enough for both of us. :lol:
Gun culture seems to attract a bunch of crazies. There was incident in Missouri a few months ago where it was found one of the guys who was giving the concealed weapon permit courses required for the licenses was bat shit insane. You need 8 hours of training but he was only giving them one, which revolved entirely about how the UN was coming to take over the country. So now there's a bunch of people who have CCW permits that may not be valid.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 30, 2013, 11:18:44 PM
Gun culture seems to attract a bunch of crazies. There was incident in Missouri a few months ago where it was found one of the guys who was giving the concealed weapon permit courses required for the licenses was bat shit insane. You need 8 hours of training but he was only giving them one, which revolved entirely about how the UN was coming to take over the country. So now there's a bunch of people who have CCW permits that may not be valid.
Captain Obvious.
Quote from: merithyn on May 30, 2013, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 30, 2013, 10:40:33 PM
Not amused, dear :glare:
It's okay, precious. I'm amused enough for both of us. :lol:
Good for you, sweetcheeks :hug:
You should really lighten up on the letter writing parties with your pals, dergunnut.
QuoteWASHINGTON — President Obama was sent a threatening letter that was intercepted this week and similar to the ricin-tainted letters mailed to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and his gun-control group, the Secret Service said Thursday.
The Secret Service "can confirm that the White House mail screening facility intercepted a letter addressed to the White House ... similar to letters previously addressed to Mayor Bloomberg in New York. This letter has been turned over to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force for testing and investigation," the agency said.
White House spokesman Josh Earnest said all presidential mail is examined at the off-site facility.
"We have precautions in place for these kinds of things," Earnest said.
The letter to Obama was discovered Wednesday. Federal officials close to the investigation said there had been a heightened sense of alert because of the Bloomberg letters. They said the Obama letter appeared to have the same postmark and handwriting as the ones sent to Bloomberg and Mayors Against Illegal Guns, based in Washington.
The Obama letter was not opened before it was shipped out for testing, the officials said.
Rep. Pete King, R-N.Y., said in a CNN interview that law enforcement officials had told him all three letters "are virtually identical," cautioning that the investigation was still in its early stages.
The other letters, postmarked May 20 in Shreveport, La., were opened in New York on Friday at the city's mail facility in Manhattan and in Washington on Sunday at an office of Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said the same machine or computer had produced the two letters to Bloomberg and the similar one to Obama and that they may be identical.
Meanwhile, the FBI announced Thursday another letter with the poison ricin had been mailed to Obama from Spokane, Wash., and was intercepted May 22. Authorities have arrested a man in Spokane in connection with that letter.
CNN, citing a source with knowledge of the letters to Bloomberg and his gun-control group, said those letters include this:
"You will have to kill me and my family before you get my guns. Anyone wants to come to my house will get shot in the face. The right to bear arms is my constitutional God-given right and I will exercise that right till the day I die."
Bloomberg said the letters "referred to our anti-gun efforts, but there's 12,000 people that are going to get killed this year with guns and 19,000 that are going to commit suicide with guns, and we're not going to walk away from those efforts."
Bloomberg said he didn't "feel threatened."
New York Police Department spokesman Paul Browne would not confirm the language in the letters, but he said the "subject matter was gun-owner rights and they contained the same threatening language."
The letters addressed to Bloomberg and Mark Glaze, director of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, both tested positive for ricin, Browne said. More testing was scheduled.
Three New York officers involved in the case experienced mild diarrhea Saturday, a minor symptom of ricin exposure, Browne said. In Washington, Glaze showed no symptoms after opening that letter, the group said.
Bloomberg ranks among the nation's most outspoken gun-control advocates. Mayors Against Illegal Guns was co-founded in 2006 by Bloomberg and Boston Mayor Thomas Menino, who serve as its co-chairs. It claims a membership of more than 850 mayors in 44 states.
Shreveport (La.) Mayor Cedric Glover said Shreveport police are working with the FBI and Joint Terrorism Task Force to determine who sent the letters and where the ricin came from.
"We are also taking the necessary steps to protect United States Postal Service ... as well as any of our citizens from any potential harm,'' Glover said.
Ricin naturally occurs in castor beans and can be fatal if inhaled or ingested. Ricin-tainted threats have been sent recently to Obama, lawmakers and judges.
Last week, a Washington state man was accused of including ricin in a death threat mailed to a federal judge. Matthew Buquet, 38, of Spokane, was being held without bond.
In late April, a Mississippi man was arrested on charges of mailing poisoned letters to Obama, Republican Sen. Roger Wicker and an 80-year-old judge in Tupelo, Miss. The FBI said Everett Dutschke, 41, bought castor bean seeds online late last year. Agents found traces of ricin on several objects retrieved from trash at his Tupelo home and near his martial-arts studio.
Well how many people were coming to that man's house to take his guns?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 31, 2013, 08:07:06 AM
You should really lighten up on the letter writing parties with your pals, dergunnut.
YOU'VE GOT MAIL
Welcome aboard Illionois. Up yours Rahm Emanuel
Quote
Illinois passes bill to allow concealed firearms; last U.S. state to have such a ban
The Illinois legislature agreed Friday to allow people to carry concealed guns, which if signed into law would make the state the last in the country to allow the public possession of concealed firearms.
The compromise plan by the House and Senate followed a federal appeals ruling that stated Illinois' concealed carry ban is unconstitutional and that the state must change it by June 9.
Gov. Pat Quinn, a Democrat, has not said whether he will sign the legislation into law. However, the bill has enough votes in the legislature to override a gubernatorial veto.
All 50 states allow residents in some form to carry a weapon outside their home.
The appeals court ruling stated the ban violated the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment right to bear arms.
The legislation hit a roadblock last week when the House approved a bill that in part would have overturned Chicago's ban on assault weapons. However, the chamber passed a revised bill Friday that allows Chicago to keep the assault-weapons ban but requires it to allow residents to carry concealed weapon.
"Lawmakers seeking to protect the basic right to self defense and lawmakers seeking to build a hedge against gun violence in their neighborhoods were forced to develop a plan that benefits the interests of the entire state," Senate President John J. Cullerton, a Democrat, said Friday after his chamber passed the House version of the bill. "As with all controversial pieces of legislation, no one is fully satisfied with the solution. ... Failure to pass this bill would result in unregulated and unsafe communities across the state."
Valinda Rowe, of the group Illinois Carry, told FoxNews.com on Saturday she was "very excited" about the bill's passage.
"Illinois will join the rest of the country," she said. "It's not a perfect law but a great foundation to build on."
Rowe said the best parts of the legislation is that the State Police must issue a permit to anybody who fulfills the requirement that includes paying the $150 registration fee and taking 16 hours of training, which keeps officials from deciding whether an applicant meets a special need for a concealed weapons.
She also praised lawmakers for crafting a bill that is uniformed across the state, which will keep Chicago or other jurisdictions from "carving out" their own laws.
However, Rowe was disappointed that the law doesn't allow residents to carry a loaded firearm on public transportation and that the fees might be cost prohibitive for people in some of the state's poorest neighborhoods, where high crime is often a problem.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/01/illinois-passes-bill-to-allow-concealed-firearms-last-us-state-to-have-such-ban/#ixzz2V14jVWNH
:cool:
The legislature passed a C&C carry law after it was shot down by the voters in a referendum. Cause you know, 9/11 changed everything.
QuoteRowe said the best parts of the legislation is that the State Police must issue a permit to anybody who fulfills the requirement that includes paying the $150 registration fee and taking 16 hours of training, which keeps officials from deciding whether an applicant meets a special need for a concealed weapons.
Yeah, that's the best parts, alright. :rolleyes:
It is going to be great seeing the rapid decline in crime in Illinois that comes as a result of the criminals realizing that their victims might be armed, and deciding the risk just isn't worth it.
I think it'll be more fun watching all the cowboy yahoos play police, and I hope the state of Illinois can get in on some of those wrongful death civil suits when the local derspiess decides to intercede in a convenience store robbery and winds up plugging the cashier by accident.
Picking up a SIG P250 357SIG/40 S&W on wednesday. 100 rds of 357 SIG and 200 rds of .40 come with it. :showoff:
:rolleyes: Gun Nutter.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 02, 2013, 01:49:47 PM
I think it'll be more fun watching all the cowboy yahoos play police, and I hope the state of Illinois can get in on some of those wrongful death civil suits when the local derspiess decides to intercede in a convenience store robbery and winds up plugging the cashier by accident.
Mostly what I've noticed is every shop in town puts up a sign that says "No guns". Very few people actually carry fire arms on their person.
One of my biggest irrational fears is gunfire in the workplace. I know exactly what I will do if I ever hear a gunshot in my office; my plan was created on Day One of the job. Yes, I recognize that the chances are more likely that I'll get shot by an arrow in a snowy field at sunset in Alaska in June, hence the term "irrational".
This new concealed carry thing has just ramped up that fear. I work with a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of white trash from the country. Many of them have restraining orders on at least one, sometimes two, exboyfriends/husbands at any given time. It's now just a matter of time... :ph34r:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 02, 2013, 01:49:47 PM
I think it'll be more fun watching all the cowboy yahoos play police, and I hope the state of Illinois can get in on some of those wrongful death civil suits when the local derspiess decides to intercede in a convenience store robbery and winds up plugging the cashier by accident.
:rolleyes: I don't carry.
25 shot in NY over the weekend. Summers officially started.
Quote from: merithyn on June 03, 2013, 07:40:23 AM
This new concealed carry thing has just ramped up that fear. I work with a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of white trash from the country. Many of them have restraining orders on at least one, sometimes two, exboyfriends/husbands at any given time. It's now just a matter of time... :ph34r:
Why? Do you think someone intent on shooting up a workplace was going to politely not carry a concealed weapon before just because it was illegal? :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on June 03, 2013, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 03, 2013, 07:40:23 AM
This new concealed carry thing has just ramped up that fear. I work with a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of white trash from the country. Many of them have restraining orders on at least one, sometimes two, exboyfriends/husbands at any given time. It's now just a matter of time... :ph34r:
Why? Do you think someone intent on shooting up a workplace was going to politely not carry a concealed weapon before just because it was illegal? :huh:
Intent is the key word. With concealed weapon at your side, intent has to last for only a couple of seconds before you do something you can't take back.
Quote from: Caliga on June 03, 2013, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 03, 2013, 07:40:23 AM
This new concealed carry thing has just ramped up that fear. I work with a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of white trash from the country. Many of them have restraining orders on at least one, sometimes two, exboyfriends/husbands at any given time. It's now just a matter of time... :ph34r:
Why? Do you think someone intent on shooting up a workplace was going to politely not carry a concealed weapon before just because it was illegal? :huh:
I think that now that concealed is legal in this state - especially because of the fight to get it so - those who wouldn't normally think about it will be going out of their way to try to get a CC permit to prove a point. Around here, that could mean that those who maybe shouldn't have one will likely get one. Those who already have restraining orders against them won't be able to, but not every wife-beater in the county has one. Those are the ones that I'm worried about since they're also the type that will get a gun to prove a point.
I love my conceal carry permit.
If anyone decides to come shooting up my eventual workplace, I dearly hope it is Cal.
QuoteAmericas 10 Deadliest Cities 2012
There has been a lot of media attention recently focusing on Chicago's 2013 murder rate, and for good reason. In the first six days of 2013, 12 people were murdered in the city. At a rate of two murders per day, this puts Chicago on a pace for 730 murders for the 2013 year. Compare that with 2012, where there were 506 murders in the city, or 18.7 murders for every 100,000 citizens. While these numbers are certainly alarming, the number of murders for every 100,000 citizens is significantly lower in Chicago when compared to a number of American cities. In fact, Chicago doesn't even come close to making the cut for being one of America's 10 deadliest cities in 2012. Here's a breakdown of the cities that made the cut this year:
1: Flint, Michigan
With 66 murders, or 64.9 murders for every 100,000 citizens, Flint's homicide rate far exceeded its competitors, making it America's deadliest city of 2012. This year's murder rate has also tied with the city's all time high in 2010. Flint is one of the poorest cities in the state, and 38.2% of the city's population is below the poverty line, making the city poorer than Detroit. Like other major cities with a high murder rate, Flint is plagued by illegal guns that have wound up in the hands of young people involved with the illegal drug trade.
2: Detroit, Michigan
In Detroit, there were 386 homicides, or 54.6 murders for every 100,000 citizens in 2012 - up 10% from 2011. With a homicide rate that's the highest among the nation's top 20 most populous cities, Detroit residents are more likely to be killed today than when the city was known as the Murder Capital 40 years ago. With its population dwindling, this is also the highest murder rate since the crack cocaine epidemic of the late 1980's, when it was about 60 per 100,000 residents. Detroit has suffered from a consistently high murder rate, due to the high level of poverty, drug, and gang crime.
3: New Orleans, Louisiana
Despite the fact that in 2012 New Orleans saw a slight decrease in the murder rate from 2011, it still ranks third on the list of America's deadliest cities. There were 193 murders in 2012, or 53.5 murders for every 100,000 citizens. Over the years, New Orleans has continued to struggle with the use of illegal guns that has been typically associated with the pervasive problem of drug and gang crime in the city. Police Superintendent Ronal Serpas says that over 50% of those arrested for murder in 2012 "have already been arrested for illegally carrying or using a firearm."
4: St. Louis, Missouri
In 2012, there were 113 murders in St. Louis, or 35.5 murders for every 100,000 citizens - the same number as 2011. There wasn't a clear pattern in the homicides that were committed and some seemed absurd. Take for example an 18-year-old homecoming queen and co-valedictorian that was strangled to death, a 23-year-old former SLU volleyball player murdered in broad daylight, or a 42-year-old man who was allegedly murdered in a dispute over a bag of Cheetos. The strategy of hot-spot policing will be employed by police in 2013 in an attempt to deter homicide.
5: Baltimore, Maryland
The city saw a 10% jump in the murder rate for 2012, with 217 homicides, or 35 murders for every 100,000 citizens. Despite the 10% jump from last year, Baltimore's murder rate for 2012 is considerably below the city's average over the last 20 years. Baltimore has consistently been one of America's deadliest cities and most homicides can be attributed to drug and gang violence.
6: Birmingham, Alabama
Birmingham saw 72 murders, or 33.7 murders for every 100,000 citizens, a rate up 21.4% from last year. Birmingham has had a persistently high crime rate, much of which can be attributed to the drug trade and its high poverty rate, which is 27% versus 17% for the state as a whole. Birmingham Police Deputy Chief Herman Hilton says most of the city's homicides are difficult to prevent because 30 of the 72 murders occurred "in someone's residence."
7: Newark, New Jersey
There were 92 murders in Newark in 2012, or 33.1 murders for every 100,000 citizens, making it tied with Oakland for 7th deadliest city in America. In Newark, the number of homicides has risen over the last several years. However, the murder rate remained the same between 2011 and 2012. Police Director Samuel DeMaio accredits this stable number with an increase in police productivity.
7: Oakland, California
In 2012, Oakland saw its highest number of murders since 2006, with 131 murders, or 33.1 murders for every 100,000 citizens. Police Lt. Drennon Lindsey said police have seen more planning in gang killings in the past year, which has ben a disturbing trend. City officials recently hired William Bratton as a consultant to help curb violence. Bratton was once a former police chief in Los Angeles, Boston, and New York City, and was responsible for significant crime drops in the cities.
8: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
There was a 4.7% rise in the murder rate for Baton Rouge, with 67 murders, or 28.9 for every 100,000 citizens in 2012. According to sources, Baton Rouge has been gaining notoriety as one of the most dangerous cities in the country. The city-parish was recently awarded a $1.5 million federal grant to help combat their rising murder rates.
9: Cleveland, Ohio
Cleveland has seen its fair share of violence and 2012 was no exception. The murder rate climbed from 75 in 2011 to 97 in 2012, or 24.6 murders for every 100,000 citizens. Despite the increased number of homicides, Cleveland Police Chief Michael McGrath says he doesn't think policies need to be changed and stresses the importance of community involvement in lowering the crime rate. According to the Census Bureau, nearly 33% of Cleveland's population is living below the poverty line, whereas the average for the state is 14.8%.
10: Memphis, Tennessee
The murder rate in Memphis has continued to climb for three consecutive years, with a total of 157 people killed in 2012, or 24.1 murders for every 100,000 citizens. Memphis police director Toney Armstrong said around 90% of last year's homicides involved individuals who knew one another and that African American males under the age of 25 commited most of the city's homicides.
A lot of common themes: drug trade-fueled, gang violence, poverty and African-American youth.
And illegal guns, of course. But that's not the real problem, because murder victims could all just as easily be pushed out of windows.
True, those falls can be a bitch.
A well regulated opening constructed in a wall or roof that functions to admit light or air to an enclosure and is often framed and spanned with glass mounted to permit opening and closing being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear windows shall not be infringed.
Child window guards and locks should be mandatory, though.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 04, 2013, 12:47:09 AM
And illegal guns, of course. But that's not the real problem, because murder victims could all just as easily be pushed out of windows.
Don't discount it
Prague's murder rate is on the top 10 for European capitals.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 04, 2013, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 04, 2013, 12:47:09 AM
And illegal guns, of course. But that's not the real problem, because murder victims could all just as easily be pushed out of windows.
Don't discount it
Prague's murder rate is on the top 10 for European capitals.
:lol:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 04, 2013, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 04, 2013, 12:47:09 AM
And illegal guns, of course. But that's not the real problem, because murder victims could all just as easily be pushed out of windows.
Don't discount it
Prague's murder rate is on the top 10 for European capitals.
:lol:
I wonder how that joke would faceplant in a forum that wasnt full of history nerds.
The internet is very light on "Can I has Masaryk-burger" memes.
Quote from: fahdiz on June 03, 2013, 01:19:26 PM
If anyone decides to come shooting up my eventual workplace, I dearly hope it is Cal.
MAH PISTOL FELL APART
:lmfao:
Picked up the SIG P250 today. Nice piece that came with three 13 rd mags and two barrels, one in 357 SIG the other in 40 S&W. Buddy threw in a nice leather OWB holster.
Nice. I'm guessing the mags handle either round?
Quote from: derspiess on June 05, 2013, 01:58:47 PM
Nice. I'm guessing the mags handle either round?
Yip, the mags are 13 rounders.
You know DS, I've always had a fondness for the 10mm.
Sissy ass FBI
Quote from: 11B4V on June 05, 2013, 01:48:41 PM
Picked up the SIG P250 today. Nice piece that came with three 13 rd mags and two barrels, one in 357 SIG the other in 40 S&W. Buddy threw in a nice leather OWB holster.
For a moment I thought you said OvB holster...
Quote from: Jacob on June 05, 2013, 05:18:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 05, 2013, 01:48:41 PM
Picked up the SIG P250 today. Nice piece that came with three 13 rd mags and two barrels, one in 357 SIG the other in 40 S&W. Buddy threw in a nice leather OWB holster.
For a moment I thought you said OvB holster...
OWB= Outside Waistband
IWB= Inside Waistband
Oh and I hate paddle holsters.
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Are you buying a new gun every day?
That's an expensive hobby! :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Are you buying a new gun every day?
That's an expensive hobby! :lol:
No, just run into good deals.
Mint, used, Glock 20, two 15 round mags. 350.00
Good price. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on June 06, 2013, 04:33:42 PM
Good price. :cool:
It was hard not to pass up, even though I've never been a fan of glocks.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Are you buying a new gun every day?
That's an expensive hobby! :lol:
No, just run into good deals.
Mint, used, Glock 20, two 15 round mags. 350.00
Just poking a bit of fun at the fact that yesterday, you bought another gun ... you are sounding like my buddy the stamp collector: "I couldn't *not* buy this $1000 stamp ... it usually goes for $4000!!! .... I guess the rent will have to wait ... ". ;)
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 05:10:52 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Are you buying a new gun every day?
That's an expensive hobby! :lol:
No, just run into good deals.
Mint, used, Glock 20, two 15 round mags. 350.00
Just poking a bit of fun at the fact that yesterday, you bought another gun ... you are sounding like my buddy the stamp collector: "I couldn't *not* buy this $1000 stamp ... it usually goes for $4000!!! .... I guess the rent will have to wait ... ". ;)
:D I know. I just stumble into things sometimes.
He's a gun nut malthus.
Quote from: katmai on June 06, 2013, 05:28:13 PM
He's a gun nut malthus.
He's a collector. They are all nuts, whether they collect guns or whatever. :lol:
Quote from: katmai on June 06, 2013, 05:28:13 PM
He's a gun nut malthus.
I prefer collector. I like that. :P
I have a Colt M1991 that I pruchased in 1993 new. Since that time I would be stretching to say I have put 200 rds through it. Action is tight as hell. :D
I'm more worried about the guy who has one gun and a bad attitude than a guy who has 100 guns. ;)
I got to play with a friend's Luger. DUBYA DUBYA TOO Luger. I got a Reich Boner.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 06, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
I got to play with a friend's Luger. DUBYA DUBYA TOO Luger. I got a Reich Boner.
Gay sex? :x
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2013, 05:50:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 06, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
I got to play with a friend's Luger. DUBYA DUBYA TOO Luger. I got a Reich Boner.
Gay sex? :x
I fed its magazine.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 06, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
I got to play with a friend's Luger. DUBYA DUBYA TOO Luger. I got a Reich Boner.
At one time the Army tested a luger in .45 acp. way back IIRC in ought six or so.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 06, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
I got to play with a friend's Luger. DUBYA DUBYA TOO Luger. I got a Reich Boner.
I sometimes put the P-38 to the back of Gangsta's head, Schindler-style.
A SLEEPING CAT TWICE AS USELESS
:D
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 05:48:45 PM
I'm more worried about the guy who has one gun and a bad attitude than a guy who has 100 guns. ;)
No kidding. I'll take habs and B4 and their 48 guns over, well, a few people on this forum with just one gun...:P
Quote from: Berkut on June 06, 2013, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 05:48:45 PM
I'm more worried about the guy who has one gun and a bad attitude than a guy who has 100 guns. ;)
No kidding. I'll take habs and B4 and their 48 guns over, well, a few people on this forum with just one gun...:P
:yes: Once they pull out their 48 guns, they put themselves at an immediate disadvantage.
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 05:48:45 PM
I'm more worried about the guy who has one gun and a bad attitude than a guy who has 100 guns. ;)
:)
The video's here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rbtQyR4gmAM
QuoteSurveillance video offers glimpse of a D.C. restaurant patio robbery
By Ian Shapira, Published: June 6
Andrew Swinson had just taken the first bite of a margherita pie on the patio of Pizzoli's Pizzeria in Logan Circle on a Friday night when a heavyset man appeared out of nowhere. Swinson, a 23-year-old consulting firm analyst from Alexandria, was having dinner with a friend who lives a few blocks from the pizzeria.
What happened next would make an ordinary meal in the heart of one of the District's buzziest neighborhoods the star of a viral surveillance video seized from the crime scene.
On the video, released by D.C. police Thursday, Swinson and his friend are eating when the unidentified man strolls onto the patio just after 9 p.m. May 17. The man strikes up a conversation with the duo.
Then, very casually, he proceeds to rob the pair at gunpoint.
The pizzeria interloper pulls the handgun from his left pocket and flashes it briefly. Then another startling thing happens: Swinson's friend lifts his plate and offers the robber a bite to eat midway through the robbery.
Why was everyone so calm during the stick-up? And what compelled Swinson's friend, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation, to offer a half-eaten gyro to the man robbing them?
In interviews, the men filled in the crucial answers.
When the stranger first approached them, he immediately asked, "You have any money?" The question didn't feel threatening initially, Swinson recalled. The man seemed harmless and unhurried.
But then, Swinson said, there was a swift change in tone. "Don't make a scene," the man ordered. "Don't make any sudden moves."
Once he flashed the gun, the friends started scrambling for their wallets.
Swinson and his friend, both former James Madison University lacrosse players, said they were surprised that they were not more scared.
"It's a good thing we're relaxed, chill guys," said Swinson, who had never been robbed before. "We don't get too anxious about something like that. We could have freaked out and gotten injured, but we were letting it just unfold."
Swinson gave the man his iPhone 4S and wallet but warned that he had no cash. (When Swinson had ordered his pizza at the counter, he'd kicked himself for not having stopped at an ATM before crossing into the city. He paid with his debit card instead.)
Swinson's friend, on the other hand, was loaded. He had $220 in cash. Which he promptly gave up.
But the 23-year-old accountant, who'd been held up at gunpoint once before, in Philadelphia, also had an iPhone 5 that was easily visible. He wanted to conceal it quickly so he could call 911 after the robbery.
So, the accountant hatched a ruse that the Pilferer of Pizzoli's fell for.
"Do you want any food?" he asked the robber, lifting his plate.
Once the man declined, the accountant said he surreptitiously set his plate down on a new spot on the table, covering the iPhone.
"I've done more impressive things in my life, to say the least," he said. "I was just pleased I wouldn't have to go looking for my phone in a bush. It was a work phone, too, and I would have had to go to [my managers] to get a new phone and that would have taken two weeks, ballpark, without having a phone. Plus, I didn't want to lose all my contacts."
The accountant's fearlessness didn't stop there. As the robber was leaving, the accountant halted him to make a request.
"I said, 'Hey please just take the cash out of the wallet and leave the wallets,' " he recalled. "I didn't want to have to get new licenses. So, he threw my wallet on the table and Andrew's wallet somewhere on the ground."
Swinson appreciated his friend's act of derring-do.
"If I had lost the wallet, I would have been screwed the rest of the night — my driver's license, insurance cards, credit cards, pretty much everything's in there," Swinson said. "My Metro card. I would have had no way of getting home."
After it was over, the men hailed a police cruiser. They walked inside the empty restaurant and told the young woman running the cashier what happened.
"We didn't believe it. We thought they must be joking," said Manuel Jose, the restaurant's assistant manager, who had been in the kitchen making pizzas at the time of the incident.
Swinson's friend said he's been living in the neighborhood for two months and feels safe there.
The area surrounding the restaurant has experienced a drop in violent crime this year, according to D.C. police. Armed robberies have fallen from 11 during the first six months of 2012 to six during the first six months of 2013.
Would the accountant return to Pizzoli's for a meal? No, he said, and not because he thinks it's dangerous.
"I thought their gyro was average," he said. "I've had better."
Swinson thought the pizza — whose dough, the restaurant advertises, is "made fresh daily on site with 100 percent organic wheat flour mixed with spring water and extra virgin olive oil" — was worth a second try.
"I won't say I am never going to go back," he said. "I just probably won't sit out front on the patio. I'll probably get it to go."
Great, the story ends with foodie bullshit. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 07, 2013, 10:47:22 AM
Great, the story ends with foodie bullshit. :rolleyes:
I thought that should be posted in his mobtown thread. Dont know why it's here.
#1, it happened in DC, not Baltimore.
#2, there was a gun involved.
Figured you'd enjoy the video. See if I think about you anymore. :mad:
This part is dreadful.
Quote"I've done more impressive things in my life, to say the least," he said. "I was just pleased I wouldn't have to go looking for my phone in a bush. It was a work phone, too, and I would have had to go to [my managers] to get a new phone and that would have taken two weeks, ballpark, without having a phone.
Quote from: DGuller on June 06, 2013, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 06, 2013, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 05:48:45 PM
I'm more worried about the guy who has one gun and a bad attitude than a guy who has 100 guns. ;)
No kidding. I'll take habs and B4 and their 48 guns over, well, a few people on this forum with just one gun...:P
:yes: Once they pull out their 48 guns, they put themselves at an immediate disadvantage.
:D
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Are you buying a new gun every day?
That's an expensive hobby! :lol:
No, just run into good deals.
Mint, used, Glock 20, two 15 round mags. 350.00
Do you purchase these things with an eye to perhaps selling them at a profit down the road or are you a collector - or perhaps both?
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 07, 2013, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2013, 03:04:46 PM
Well after years of resisitance, I have purchased a glock.
Sumbitch, I just went into to by primers. :mad:
Are you buying a new gun every day?
That's an expensive hobby! :lol:
No, just run into good deals.
Mint, used, Glock 20, two 15 round mags. 350.00
Do you purchase these things with an eye to perhaps selling them at a profit down the road or are you a collector - or perhaps both?
I have no desire to sell any of the firearms I own. A collector of sorts I guess.
350$ is not cheap.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 07, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
350$ is not cheap.
For a Glock in mint condition? I disagree.
Quote from: Caliga on June 07, 2013, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 07, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
350$ is not cheap.
For a Glock in mint condition? I disagree.
Only previously used by a little old lady to murder on Sundays? That sort of thing? :D
Quote from: Malthus on June 07, 2013, 03:57:44 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 07, 2013, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 07, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
350$ is not cheap.
For a Glock in mint condition? I disagree.
Only previously used by a little old lady to murder on Sundays? That sort of thing? :D
lil ole ladies need to protect themselves too. ;)
Seriously though, it's pretty easy why that Glock 20 (10mm Auto) was there and for that price.
Quote from: Caliga on June 07, 2013, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 07, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
350$ is not cheap.
For a Glock in mint condition? I disagree.
The product has no brearing on the equation if you buy one every week, 350$ is not cheap. Cheap is 10$.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 10, 2013, 06:16:03 AM
Quote from: Caliga on June 07, 2013, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 07, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
350$ is not cheap.
For a Glock in mint condition? I disagree.
The product has no brearing on the equation if you buy one every week, 350$ is not cheap. Cheap is 10$.
Not true. That just makes for maybe an expensive hobby, depending on your income.
Besides I dont buy a gun once a week.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 10, 2013, 06:16:03 AM
Quote from: Caliga on June 07, 2013, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 07, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
350$ is not cheap.
For a Glock in mint condition? I disagree.
The product has no brearing on the equation if you buy one every week, 350$ is not cheap. Cheap is 10$.
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
I would hesitate just a little. :hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
I would hesitate just a little. :hmm:
next I have a bridge to sell to CC :D
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
I would hesitate just a little. :hmm:
Assume the land really does have a market value of 2M. :P His point was that the value of being inexpensive is an absolute value rather than a relative value. So I used an extreme example to show the error of his ways.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:22:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
I would hesitate just a little. :hmm:
Assume the land really does have a market value of 2M. :P His point was that the value of being inexpensive is an absolute value rather than a relative value. So I used an extreme example to show the error of his ways.
Depends on how easy it is to resell the collectible or land in issue, and collect the estimated market value; or indeed if the person buying it
wants to resell. ;)
For some true collectors there is no question of ever reselling stuff (until they are dead or hopelessly broke) so the expense of buying a given collectible is really not an "investment". In that case, it doesn't matter how great a bargain they are getting, it's all consumption, and all that matters is the absolute amount the collector is willing to sink into his hobby.
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:22:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
I would hesitate just a little. :hmm:
Assume the land really does have a market value of 2M. :P His point was that the value of being inexpensive is an absolute value rather than a relative value. So I used an extreme example to show the error of his ways.
Depends on how easy it is to resell the collectible or land in issue, and collect the estimated market value; or indeed if the person buying it wants to resell. ;)
That is all factored into the assumption it has a
market value of 2m. If there were things which restricted the ability of the land to be sold then that would be reflected in the market value.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:22:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
If I can buy a piece of land with a market value of 2M for 50,000 dollars that is exceedingly cheap and I would do it without hesitation.
I would hesitate just a little. :hmm:
Assume the land really does have a market value of 2M. :P His point was that the value of being inexpensive is an absolute value rather than a relative value. So I used an extreme example to show the error of his ways.
Depends on how easy it is to resell the collectible or land in issue, and collect the estimated market value; or indeed if the person buying it wants to resell. ;)
That is all factored into the assumption it has a market value of 2m. If there were things which restricted the ability of the land to be sold then that would be reflected in the market value.
You are missing my point, I think.
The minor point is that, in some cases, collectibles can have a "market value" that is quite realistic, but the market for them is not liquid. A person owning a stamp valued at $2 million may have to wait a long time for a buyer of such an object - reducing the price will not hasten a buyer necessarily, because persons or institutions willing to buy such an object are rare.
The major point is that, in some cases, collectors as a group are not necessarily like investors - they have no real intention of reselling, ever. If that's the case, the market value is basically meaningless - what matters is the absolute amount they are willing to spend on their hobby.
If that's the case, it is quite irrelevant that a Glock is worth $800 but is selling for $300 - once the gun is purchased, it disappears into the collection forever, and that $500 value will never be realized - until the collector has to give up his collection.
There has to be a name for the fallacy that a collector, who has no intention of ever reselling, got a "bargain" when he paid "only" $400 for (say) a stamp with a market value of $800. I'm sure the wife of said collector could think of a few choice terms for that. :D
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 12:58:40 PM
You are missing my point, I think.
The point being missed is that Value is relative not absolute. If a collector wishes to obtain an item then it is inexpensive to purchase it for 300 rather than the market value which is more expensive.
One does not have to sell the item to determine whether the purchase price was relatively inexpensive. One need only determine that they purchased the item for less than what it would normally have cost them to acquire the item.
I may never sell that 2m dollar piece of property that I picked up for a song. I may keep it till the end of my days and use it for target practice using a Glock I also purchased inexpensively.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:02:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 12:58:40 PM
You are missing my point, I think.
The point being missed is that Value is relative not absolute. If a collector wishes to obtain an item then it is inexpensive to purchase it for 300 rather than the market value which is more expensive.
One does not have to sell the item to determine whether the purchase price was relatively inexpensive. One need only determine that they purchased the item for less than what it would normally have cost them to acquire the item.
I may never sell that 2m dollar piece of property that I picked up for a song. I may keep it till the end of my days and use it for target practice using a Glock I also purchased inexpensively.
The issue is that there is only a certain
absolute amount a rational person can (or should) spend on a hobby. For a collector, in your way lies madness, because there is always another wonderful gun, stamp, or bit of land one
could buy. :lol:
At the end of the day, collect too many of these "bargains" and you will have to use your Glock on your bit of land to hunt for food.
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:02:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 12:58:40 PM
You are missing my point, I think.
The point being missed is that Value is relative not absolute. If a collector wishes to obtain an item then it is inexpensive to purchase it for 300 rather than the market value which is more expensive.
One does not have to sell the item to determine whether the purchase price was relatively inexpensive. One need only determine that they purchased the item for less than what it would normally have cost them to acquire the item.
I may never sell that 2m dollar piece of property that I picked up for a song. I may keep it till the end of my days and use it for target practice using a Glock I also purchased inexpensively.
The issue is that there is only a certain absolute amount a rational person can (or should) spend on a hobby. For a collector, in your way lies madness, because there is always another wonderful gun, stamp, or bit of land one could buy. :lol:
At the end of the day, collect too many of these "bargains" and you will have to use your Glock on your bit of land to hunt for food.
Sure but all you are talking about now is the means to pay.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:02:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 12:58:40 PM
You are missing my point, I think.
The point being missed is that Value is relative not absolute. If a collector wishes to obtain an item then it is inexpensive to purchase it for 300 rather than the market value which is more expensive.
One does not have to sell the item to determine whether the purchase price was relatively inexpensive. One need only determine that they purchased the item for less than what it would normally have cost them to acquire the item.
I may never sell that 2m dollar piece of property that I picked up for a song. I may keep it till the end of my days and use it for target practice using a Glock I also purchased inexpensively.
The issue is that there is only a certain absolute amount a rational person can (or should) spend on a hobby. For a collector, in your way lies madness, because there is always another wonderful gun, stamp, or bit of land one could buy. :lol:
At the end of the day, collect too many of these "bargains" and you will have to use your Glock on your bit of land to hunt for food.
Sure but all you are talking about now is the means to pay.
To my mind, this is what Gray Fox was talking about.
To translate: "spending $350 on a hobby an a regular basis is not a bargain, even if the objects you are buying are, in theory, worth far more."
My grandfather did this (the collecting bit especially with bargains) with a lot of things including a lot sunk into trading cards. We've looked into a few times after his death but most all of it is basically worthless at this point. :(
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:29:29 PM
To translate: "spending $350 on a hobby an a regular basis is not a bargain, even if the objects you are buying are, in theory, worth far more."
Well even if that is what he was saying then you are still talking about means to pay. Obviously our resident gun enthusiast has made the judgment he does and the price is less than normal. Therefore it is inexpensive.
Bill gates could pick up several such deals a week and if he were an equal gun enthusiast he would be smart to do so rather than purchasing the guns at a greater price.
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2013, 01:30:51 PM
My grandfather did this (the collecting bit especially with bargains) with a lot of things including a lot sunk into trading cards. We've looked into a few times after his death but most all of it is basically worthless at this point. :(
I have several friends with the collecting bug in various forms. It's a characteristic of the species to find bargains irresistable. OTOH, hopefully the collections of stamps, coins and guns really do have some value - so at least the relations can benefit at some point. ;)
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:33:49 PM
Well even if that is what he was saying then you are still talking about means to pay. Obviously our resident gun enthusiast has made the judgment he does and the price is less than normal. Therefore it is inexpensive.
For a collecter, as opposed to an investor, "in that way lies madness". ;)
An investor cares about the difference between market value and actual value, because the investor intends to capitalize on that difference.
The collector cares about collecting, of which there is really no end. If a collector is moved to purchase a new acquisition because it is a "bargain", they are spending money above and beyond what they have allocated to their hobby. It's not a good sign, if indulged in too frequently.
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:34:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2013, 01:30:51 PM
My grandfather did this (the collecting bit especially with bargains) with a lot of things including a lot sunk into trading cards. We've looked into a few times after his death but most all of it is basically worthless at this point. :(
I have several friends with the collecting bug in various forms. It's a characteristic of the species to find bargains irresistable. OTOH, hopefully the collections of stamps, coins and guns really do have some value - so at least the relations can benefit at some point. ;)
Yeah he had a diverse amount of stuff - stamps, cards, coins, rocks (like geodes many of which he actually found himself in the desert), these native american dolls (of whose name I don't remember), etc. I think he was somewhat like what one would call a hoarder today, though it was really just one room that was very full of the stuff - rest of his place looked presentable.
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:33:49 PM
Well even if that is what he was saying then you are still talking about means to pay. Obviously our resident gun enthusiast has made the judgment he does and the price is less than normal. Therefore it is inexpensive.
For a collecter, as opposed to an investor, "in that way lies madness". ;)
An investor cares about the difference between market value and actual value, because the investor intends to capitalize on that difference.
The collector cares about collecting, of which there is really no end. If a collector is moved to purchase a new acquisition because it is a "bargain", they are spending money above and beyond what they have allocated to their hobby. It's not a good sign, if indulged in too frequently.
No, that assumption may is not necessarily true. For example in this very example. He bought it because he both wanted to acquire this gun and it was a good deal. He does not go out buying up all the guns he can on the basis they are good deals. Although to the extent he has the means to do so - why not?
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:33:49 PM
Well even if that is what he was saying then you are still talking about means to pay. Obviously our resident gun enthusiast has made the judgment he does and the price is less than normal. Therefore it is inexpensive.
For a collecter, as opposed to an investor, "in that way lies madness". ;)
An investor cares about the difference between market value and actual value, because the investor intends to capitalize on that difference.
The collector cares about collecting, of which there is really no end. If a collector is moved to purchase a new acquisition because it is a "bargain", they are spending money above and beyond what they have allocated to their hobby. It's not a good sign, if indulged in too frequently.
No, that assumption may is not necessarily true. For example in this very example. He bought it because he both wanted to acquire this gun and it was a good deal. He does not go out buying up all the guns he can on the basis they are good deals. Although to the extent he has the means to do so - why not?
I'm not saying he shouldn't.
I'm simply pointing out that, for a collector, it is wise to look at absolute and not just relative value - because, in the end, money spent on collecting is consumption, not investment.
So it should be budgeted accordingly. It isn't foolish to for someone like me to spend $50,000 on a land investment deal (your example) if I seriously think I can flip it for $2 million. It is, however, the height of folly for the same person to spend $50,000 on what is basically a hobby; I don't really have $50K to spend on hobbies, not without serious impact on other plans.
Why you lie?
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:53:46 PM
I don't really have $50K to spend on hobbies, not without serious impact on other plans.
We already know about your weakness for overpriced strollers. I think I now know why you are arguing the other side so strenously.
Besides, if I could pick up a piece of property valued at 2m for only 50k. I would do it.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2013, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 10, 2013, 01:33:49 PM
Well even if that is what he was saying then you are still talking about means to pay. Obviously our resident gun enthusiast has made the judgment he does and the price is less than normal. Therefore it is inexpensive.
For a collecter, as opposed to an investor, "in that way lies madness". ;)
An investor cares about the difference between market value and actual value, because the investor intends to capitalize on that difference.
The collector cares about collecting, of which there is really no end. If a collector is moved to purchase a new acquisition because it is a "bargain", they are spending money above and beyond what they have allocated to their hobby. It's not a good sign, if indulged in too frequently.
No, that assumption may is not necessarily true. For example in this very example. He bought it because he both wanted to acquire this gun and it was a good deal. He does not go out buying up all the guns he can on the basis they are good deals. Although to the extent he has the means to do so - why not?
Yes, 2013 is the most Ive bought in any given year at four and havent went over 2k.
How the hell did I miss this episode. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvO-8IvoCI
Quote from: 11B4V on June 13, 2013, 04:41:17 PM
How the hell did I miss this episode. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvO-8IvoCI
I miss Denny Crane.
Quote from: Liep on June 13, 2013, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 13, 2013, 04:41:17 PM
How the hell did I miss this episode. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvO-8IvoCI
I miss Denny Crane.
Same. Such a good show.
Yes, finally scored some pistol powder. :showoff:
:showoff:
Trip to Cabela's today. Scored 100 .40 Cal FMJ, Box of 250 Nosler 135gr JHP in .40 Cal, 200 Magtec 180gr JHP, and other goodies. Only powder they had was for the .50 BMG.
I'll load the 180gr Magtecs in the 10mm Auto. The 135gr Noslers in the .40 S&W even though that bullet is a little light. It will be zippy loaded to 1300 fps. Too light for the 10mm Auto.
Wish I had a Cabelas nearby. I can spend hours in one even if I don't buy anything. We have a Bass Pro in Cincy but I'd trade it for a Cabelas any day.
Have a Cabela's opening up this fall and couple of Sportsman's Warehouse here as well.
Quote from: derspiess on June 20, 2013, 12:33:43 AM
I can spend hours in one even if I don't buy anything.
:yes:
Quote from: katmai on June 20, 2013, 08:44:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 20, 2013, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 20, 2013, 12:33:43 AM
I can spend hours in one even if I don't buy anything.
:yes:
:rolleyes: Gun Nuts.
If you see a gun on the guns international website advertised by cabelas, you can call any cabelas in the country. They will ship it to a cabelas nearest you for 25.00 so you can give it a good once over before buying it. :D
Quote from: katmai on June 20, 2013, 08:44:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 20, 2013, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 20, 2013, 12:33:43 AM
I can spend hours in one even if I don't buy anything.
:yes:
:rolleyes: Gun Nuts.
I dunno, everyone likes checking out stuff associated to their hobby.
I can spend an hour in a bookstore without buying anything, or hours in a wargame store, if such a thing existed anymore.
:rolleyes: Booknut
I've just gone to annoying ElevenB with that response to give him shit. :P
Gander Mountain usually has good deals on giant containers of cashews.
Fuck the fishin pole and other silly crap. Damn right bitches.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/988505_330464740417303_128169375_n.jpg)
I can't think of less effective way to fish. Except maybe throwing brochures into the water to entice the fish to jump into the boat.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 23, 2013, 03:42:46 AM
I can't think of less effective way to fish. Except maybe throwing brochures into the water to entice the fish to jump into the boat.
I don't know the above guy could go the whole hog and just dangle his epice sized wang over the side like a fishing rod.
Meanwhile, just another mild summer weekend in Mobtown...
QuoteSeventeen people were shot in 10 incidents across the city from Friday afternoon through early Sunday evening. Eight of those people — two women and six men — were killed.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 23, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
Meanwhile, just another mild summer weekend in Mobtown...
QuoteSeventeen people were shot in 10 incidents across the city from Friday afternoon through early Sunday evening. Eight of those people — two women and six men — were killed.
whats with summer heat a murder? People getting cranky?
Quote from: HVC on June 24, 2013, 07:57:45 AM
whats with summer heat a murder? People getting cranky?
Yeah, but it when it gets too hot, people don't do anything, killing or otherwise. Just too damned hot.
This weekend wasn't too hot but rather pretty--which makes it even likelier to have shootings, since everybody is out and about, enjoying life until it ends abruptly.
Toss in a full moon, and you have a 99% chance of raining bullets.
You can always see a jump in shootings during a cool streak in the early summer, just like you see a jump in shootings during a warm streak in the early fall. Makes 'em all twitchy like. You can set your watch to it.
Hell, I was taking vM and his Missus on a short tour downtown and we rolled through part of the 'hood. All the natives were out. That makes for a target rich environment.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 23, 2013, 01:09:37 AM
Fuck the fishin pole and other silly crap. Damn right bitches.
Serious question: would an average gun work underwater?
I can't think of why it would not, assuming that the cartridges are watertight.
Would being underwater screw up the works somehow?
Quote from: Malthus on June 24, 2013, 09:19:40 AM
Serious question: would an average gun work underwater?
Yes, but poorly.
QuoteTory made sure that there was no air in the barrel because, if there was, the barrel could explode.
The first up was the 9mm. Without a ballistics gel target, the bullet went 18 ft. This answered the first question: yes, you can fire a regular gun underwater (confirmed). The 9mm bullet was intact, but the casing wasn't ejected from the gun. Instead, it was stuck in the slide, so you would only get one shot underwater.
Now they had verified that you can fire a gun underwater, they moved onto testing lethality. In the original episode, they found that a 9mm gun fired into water was lethal at 8ft. No so for a bullet fired underwater: the 9mm bullet didn't even come close to penetrating the target at 10ft. They next moved the target to 2ft, at which point they couldn't find the bullet. Same with the .357 magnum: they lost the bullet when fired at 2ft from the target.
Back at the shop they dissected the ballistics gel block and found the 9mm at 4" deep and the .357 magnum at 5.5", i.e. both would be lethal at 2ft.
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_51_myths_reopened.html
See also:
http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/what-happens-when-you-fire-a-pistol-underwater-1414525/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/firing-guns-under-water-andrew-tuohy-video_n_1929909.html
Thanks! Cool links. :)
General good info for "Gun Nuts".
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True
Concealed Carry "Mistakes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-NOwxg4rxE&nofeather=True
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True
Good find. :thumbsup: Don't shoot anyone in self-defense until you watch this video.
The other one is good too.
Quote from: DGuller on June 29, 2013, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True)
Good find. :thumbsup: Don't shoot anyone in self-defense until you watch this video.
I liked the petition at the bottom.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 29, 2013, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True)
Good find. :thumbsup: Don't shoot anyone in self-defense until you watch this video.
I liked the petition at the bottom.
I'm unfamilar with Moveon.org. Dont even know what they do.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 10:38:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 29, 2013, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True)
Good find. :thumbsup: Don't shoot anyone in self-defense until you watch this video.
I liked the petition at the bottom.
I'm unfamilar with Moveon.org. Dont even know what they do.
Do you live under a rock / read nothing posted on Languish?
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2013, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 10:38:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 29, 2013, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True)
Good find. :thumbsup: Don't shoot anyone in self-defense until you watch this video.
I liked the petition at the bottom.
I'm unfamilar with Moveon.org. Dont even know what they do.
Do you live under a rock / read nothing posted on Languish?
I'll say it again
Dont even know what they do.
Yes because much easier to keep posting about one's ignorance than use the capabilities of the Internet. Though I guess that answers my question on whether you read things posted on Languish.
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2013, 11:31:03 PM
Do you live under a rock / read nothing posted on Languish?
Guilty as charged.
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2013, 11:47:04 PM
Yes because much easier to keep posting about one's ignorance than use the capabilities of the Internet. Though I guess that answers my question on whether you read things posted on Languish.
I dont believe I asked a question, in either of those posts to anyone here. So, there was really no need for you to answer.
Besides, go fuck yourself.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets0.ordienetworks.com%2Fimages%2FGifGuide%2Fdancing%2Fsmith1.gif&hash=85a283152cb654578b691eb8fb898a0eb932e8c5)
Pfft. You take the body out in the woods.
Quote from: Malthus on June 24, 2013, 09:25:47 AM
Thanks! Cool links. :)
And one more I saw today (AK-47 fired underwater with a slow motion replay):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5K6YymPe_M&feature=youtu.be
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
General good info for "Gun Nuts".
Killed Someone In Self Defense, Now What ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B667sHbfwAQ&nofeather=True
I love his starting monologue about how he is such a advocate for carrying, guns, knives, and "multiple weapons" to protect yourself and your family.
What a psycho.
:ph34r:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.desura.com%2Fimages%2Fmembers%2F1%2F224%2F223692%2Fhomeboy-sights.jpg&hash=4dc35594f2f071a4eb559b0ce77dd0aa82047316)
MAH SIGHTS I CANT SEE
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: :mad:
Went out to the range today. Took the Remington 700 (8x57mm or 8mm mauser for you anti-nutters). Nice day. Shot like crap.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/421967_10201315612523526_1643725025_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1045011_10201315610403473_1576287164_n.jpg)
Stopped by the LGS on the way back home. I was looking for a bipod for range/bench shooting. So, I'm looking at the bipods and this mother fucker comes strolling up. In his mid twenties or so, dont know him from adam.
He says, "You celebrating your rights this fourth of July?"
I reply, "What?", and go back to looking at bipods.
Dude says, "Your 2nd amendment rights."
Now, I'm already pissed from the range. I turn and look at this dude (in a completely neutral facial expression) and retort, "Get away from me lunatic," and walked off to the cash register.
He was stunned and I think I crushed him.
Did he have large forehead and go on about the St. Louis Cardinals?
Quote from: katmai on July 03, 2013, 07:17:58 PM
Did he have large forehead and go on about the St. Louis Cardinals?
:D
I was not in the mood for his spewing crap.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 03, 2013, 07:21:20 PM
I was not in the mood for his spewing crap.
MAH FIREWERKS
From WSJ:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1003995_10151768201073128_646658260_n.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philebrity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Famericafuckyeah.jpg&hash=250a68cc967c82ee7e21b8572903a4fd746c67aa)
MAH ERECTION
As for a conceal carry weapon, I still like the Walther PPK. I feel like Adolf Hitler when I have it strapped on.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 05, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
As for a conceal carry weapon, I still like the Walther PPK. I feel like Adolf Hitler when I have it strapped on.
HEHE
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 05, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
As for a conceal carry weapon, I still like the Walther PPK. I feel like Adolf Hitler when I have it strapped on.
You feel like you only have one ball? :unsure:
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2013, 01:57:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 05, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
As for a conceal carry weapon, I still like the Walther PPK. I feel like Adolf Hitler when I have it strapped on.
You feel like you only have one ball? :unsure:
:pinch:
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2013, 01:57:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 05, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
As for a conceal carry weapon, I still like the Walther PPK. I feel like Adolf Hitler when I have it strapped on.
You feel like you only have one ball? :unsure:
MAH SAFETY
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 23, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
Meanwhile, just another mild summer weekend in Mobtown...
QuoteSeventeen people were shot in 10 incidents across the city from Friday afternoon through early Sunday evening. Eight of those people — two women and six men — were killed.
Heh... we've had the same here, almost exact numbers, too. Except the whole "dying" part. Our shooters aren't as good of shots. No one's been killed yet, but a whole lot of injuries.
Quote from: merithyn on July 05, 2013, 02:38:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 23, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
Meanwhile, just another mild summer weekend in Mobtown...
QuoteSeventeen people were shot in 10 incidents across the city from Friday afternoon through early Sunday evening. Eight of those people — two women and six men — were killed.
Heh... we've had the same here, almost exact numbers, too. Except the whole "dying" part. Our shooters aren't as good of shots. No one's been killed yet, but a whole lot of injuries.
Well that's a plus.
QuoteMan fires gun in celebration of Fourth, wounds great-granddaughter
Baltimorean, 82, said he fired indoors for safety, wound up hitting 17-year-old
By Scott Dance, The Baltimore Sun
Lassiter Basket bought his .22-caliber handgun in 1963 and in recent years has fired it just twice a year — on New Year's Eve and the Fourth of July. He says he uses blanks for safety and shoots in the privacy of his Forest Park row house.
"Other people fire firecrackers," the white-haired 82-year-old said. "It's just a noisemaker."
But on Thursday, police say Basket had live ammunition in his gun when he fired off a round that blasted through the wall of his great-granddaughter's bedroom. While the 17-year-old escaped with minor wounds to her wrists and leg, the shooting serves as another reminder of the dangers of celebratory gunfire.
Basket said police are "mistaken" and that he's certain that he had a blank in the chamber, but Detective Angela Carter-Watson, a police spokeswoman, said investigators recovered evidence of a real bullet at the scene.
For years, officials have urged residents to refrain from celebratory gunfire as injuries mount. Celebratory gunfire this past New Year's Eve claimed the life of a Cecil County girl. In 2011, a falling bullet injured a 4-year-old boy at Fourth of July celebrations at the Inner Harbor.
Basket took Tashira Holley, his great-granddaughter, to a local hospital shortly before midnight Thursday.
He said he had walked out of his bedroom on the second floor, pointed the handgun down the hall and pulled the trigger, confident he had loaded it with blanks he keeps in a purple cloth bag that once held a bottle of Crown Royal whiskey. He said he keeps his real ammunition separate, in a Remington box.
To his surprise, the bullet wasn't harmless.
"She said, 'Granddad, I'm hit,' and I said, 'You can't be,' " Basket said.
Doctors tended to Holley's wounds and X-rayed her wrists but found no life-threatening injuries. Holley sat on the front porch of her house Friday with gauze bandages around both wrists, which were resting in her lap over pink Snoopy pajama pants.
"I wasn't surprised when it happened, but I was surprised when I saw the blood," Holley said. "I'm glad it's all right."
Other recent incidents have turned out to be more serious.
Ten-year-old Aaliyah Boyer was in an Elkton yard watching fireworks with her family on New Year's Eve when she fell to the ground. Initially, her family thought she had fainted, but it quickly became clear that she was severely injured. She died after two days on life support.
Police were unable to trace where the bullet came from, and there is no law in that part of the state barring celebratory gunfire.
In 2011, Kavin Benson, a 4-year-old celebrating the Fourth of July with his family at the Inner Harbor, suffered a dime-size wound near his hip from a falling bullet. The slug lodged behind his femur, where doctors were obliged to leave it. He has recovered. No one was ever charged.
Many local governments, including in Baltimore and Baltimore County, have passed laws that prohibit the "unlawful discharge" of guns. Exceptions include self-defense, licensed target ranges, and some military and hunting occasions.
Basket said he kept his celebratory gunfire indoors and used blanks out of safety concerns. He stood by a citizen's right to bear arms.
"I think guns are necessary for people who know how to use them," Basket said. "If you don't have a way of protecting yourself, police are not going to be here to give you help."
Police have not charged Basket with any crime, but officers are consulting with the state's attorney's office about the matter, Carter-Watson said. Officers seized his weapon Thursday night, and he does not plan to replace it.
"It won't happen again because I'm not buying anything else," Basket said. "I have to now depend on the Police Department to do their job."
Fired indoors for safety? Good call, dude. :lol:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 05, 2013, 09:49:26 PM
Fired indoors for safety? Good call, dude. :lol:
Seemed like a good idea at the time. :lol:
Jim Carrey is sorry for calling me a heartless motherfucker! :wub:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2FScreen-Shot-2013-07-07-at-9.59.33-PM-e1373248837854.png&hash=90af1870cf63122a2e8c6c5d6a87d84c7fbc0537)
Quote from: derspiess on July 08, 2013, 11:25:21 AM
Jim Carrey is sorry for calling me a heartless motherfucker! :wub:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2FScreen-Shot-2013-07-07-at-9.59.33-PM-e1373248837854.png&hash=90af1870cf63122a2e8c6c5d6a87d84c7fbc0537)
I wish he'd apologize for his movies he's made lately.
How far are we going to have to go back for that?
I wish he'd apologize for his apology to heartless motherfuckers. :mad:
I wish I could stroke my assault rifles right now.
First set of loadings for the next range trip. :D
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/968990_10201346771422479_884268149_n.jpg)
Quote from: DGuller on July 08, 2013, 06:40:50 PM
I wish he'd apologize for his apology to heartless motherfuckers. :mad:
I wish you'd apologize for that post :ultra:
Quote from: 11B4V on July 08, 2013, 11:45:36 PM
First set of loadings for the next range trip. :D
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/968990_10201346771422479_884268149_n.jpg)
What is that? 8mm?
Quote from: derspiess on July 09, 2013, 09:51:18 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 08, 2013, 06:40:50 PM
I wish he'd apologize for his apology to heartless motherfuckers. :mad:
I wish you'd apologize for that post :ultra:
Really apologize or faux apologize?
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2013, 10:27:38 AM
Really apologize or faux apologize?
Faux. And in Russian.
Quote from: derspiess on July 09, 2013, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 08, 2013, 11:45:36 PM
First set of loadings for the next range trip. :D
What is that? 8mm?
yippers. All nice and shiny for the Remington.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 09, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 09, 2013, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 08, 2013, 11:45:36 PM
First set of loadings for the next range trip. :D
What is that? 8mm?
yippers. All nice and shiny for the Remington.
That's definitely one caliber I'd reload if I ever got around to reloading. 8mm is so damned expensive these days, I almost never take my Mauser out to the range.
Quote from: derspiess on July 09, 2013, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2013, 10:27:38 AM
Really apologize or faux apologize?
Faux. And in Russian.
Мне жаль, что ты бессердечный ублюдок. :hug:
Quote from: derspiess on July 09, 2013, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 09, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 09, 2013, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 08, 2013, 11:45:36 PM
First set of loadings for the next range trip. :D
What is that? 8mm?
yippers. All nice and shiny for the Remington.
That's definitely one caliber I'd reload if I ever got around to reloading. 8mm is so damned expensive these days, I almost never take my Mauser out to the range.
No doubt. Problem with the 8x57 (8mm Mauser) is, the same powders that work good in the 5.56mm (.223) and .308 Winchester work in the 8mm :grr:. CFE is new so a lot of people havent used it yet. Scored 6 pounds of it last year. My go to powder for the 8mm is H4895 & IMR4895. Just cant find it, so Ive had to go to other less used powders for it (IMR4007, IMR 8208 XBR etc.) I did score 5000 primers last night. :thumbsup:
CFE223 is a real good powder for the 8mm Mauser. Ive used it with two other bullet weights so far; the 175 grain Sierra (2810fps avg) and 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (2790fps avg). The Remington 700 Classic is a treat to load for in 8x57 (8mm Mauser). Good strong modern action, not a WW2 surplus rifle or a Yugo M48. It lets you load the 8mm full potential.
Got my CZ-82 so I again have a concealed carry-worthy firearm. Might finally go ahead and get my CCW license, not that I anticipate carrying very often.
The CZ-82 is a really nice pistol. It's like they took a Makarov and added several improvements/refinements. Downside is that it's a lot more complicated-- has like twice the parts of a Makarov. Easy to field strip, but I'd have to punch out a few different-sized roll pins to fully disassemble. And the baked-on type of finish tends not to wear off so much as it flakes off. Mine is in mechanically excellent condition, and NRA Very Good+ condition cosmetically. Might get it refinished (cerakote?) at some point.
Czechs make really good firearms.
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 08:23:47 PM
Got my CZ-82 so I again have a concealed carry-worthy firearm. Might finally go ahead and get my CCW license, not that I anticipate carrying very often.
Oh, I think you do.
CZ-82 is a good pistol.
Range day tomorrow. A lot of work ups to test. :D
Yes, I can imagine what with all the excitement of such a high operational tempo you guys have on Fed property, punching holes in paper must seem like a real thrill.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 09:05:40 PM
Yes, I can imagine what with all the excitement of such a high operational tempo you guys have on Fed property, punching holes in paper must seem like a real thrill.
No civil rights violated this week. Almost, but not quite.
Range day tomorrow is not related to the job. :blurgh:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 08:23:47 PM
Got my CZ-82 so I again have a concealed carry-worthy firearm. Might finally go ahead and get my CCW license, not that I anticipate carrying very often.
Oh, I think you do.
Nah. Maybe if things get out of hand downtown it would be a nice option. But a good part of the time I'm out & about I've got my kids with me, and those are by definition not high risk situations.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 14, 2013, 09:11:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 09:05:40 PM
Yes, I can imagine what with all the excitement of such a high operational tempo you guys have on Fed property, punching holes in paper must seem like a real thrill.
No civil rights violated this week. Almost, but not quite.
Range day tomorrow is not related to the job. :blurgh:
I'm working from home tomorrow, but I anticipate starting an early workday, followed by a couple hours of range time before I have to pick up the kids from pre-school :)
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 08:23:47 PM
Got my CZ-82 so I again have a concealed carry-worthy firearm. Might finally go ahead and get my CCW license, not that I anticipate carrying very often.
Oh, I think you do.
Nah. Maybe if things get out of hand downtown it would be a nice option. But a good part of the time I'm out & about I've got my kids with me, and those are by definition not high risk situations.
He's just upset from the GZ verdict. All white people are bad right now.
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 08:37:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 08:23:47 PM
Got my CZ-82 so I again have a concealed carry-worthy firearm. Might finally go ahead and get my CCW license, not that I anticipate carrying very often.
Oh, I think you do.
Nah. Maybe if things get out of hand downtown it would be a nice option. But a good part of the time I'm out & about I've got my kids with me, and those are by definition not high risk situations.
Things get out of hand downtown? Downtown where? Damascus, Syria?
You have no good or compelling reason to carry a concealed weapon.
And you have no professional responsibilities that require you to do so even though you are employed by the Cincinnati Bengals, in which case you're outgunned anyway. LULZ
But it's so cool to carry one. :wub:
Quote from: DGuller on July 14, 2013, 10:00:11 PM
But it's so cool to carry one. :wub:
Nice, what do you do for an encore. Kick a kitten? :rolleyes:
Quote from: DGuller on July 14, 2013, 10:00:11 PM
But it's so cool to carry one. :wub:
It makes him taller as well. Or at least it feels that way.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 09:58:29 PM
Things get out of hand downtown? Downtown where? Damascus, Syria?
Worse. Downtown Cincy. Don't forget 2001.
QuoteYou have no good or compelling reason to carry a concealed weapon.
Guess what, chief-- I don't need one. SHALL ISSUE, BEYOTCH
QuoteAnd you have no professional responsibilities that require you to do so even though you are employed by the Cincinnati Bengals, in which case you're outgunned anyway. LULZ
Responsibility? No. Qualification? Most definitely.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 14, 2013, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 14, 2013, 10:00:11 PM
But it's so cool to carry one. :wub:
Nice, what do you do for an encore. Kick a kitten? :rolleyes:
I don't get it. :huh:
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 10:04:07 PM
Responsibility? No. Qualification? Most definitely.
Having a burning desire to find yourself in a situation where you get a chance to use your nifty new toy on A Bad Guy(tm) isn't really qualification.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 10:50:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 10:04:07 PM
Responsibility? No. Qualification? Most definitely.
Having a burning desire to find yourself in a situation where you get a chance to use your nifty new toy on A Bad Guy(tm) isn't really qualification.
How do you figure that? Do you have a CCW, btw?
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
How do you figure that?
Because that's the only reason yahoos like you get them when they don't need them. "Just because" isn't the reason.
QuoteDo you have a CCW, btw?
Had to turn the one in when I lost my job, and I let my other one lapse with my PI license since I didn't need it. WHO KNEW
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 11:02:05 PM
Because that's the only reason yahoos like you get them when they don't need them. "Just because" isn't the reason.
Not at all. You gonna go after Ed on those same grounds, btw?
Quote
Had to turn the one in when I lost my job, and I let my other one lapse with my PI license since I didn't need it. WHO KNEW
Shall Issue FTW.
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 11:02:05 PM
Because that's the only reason yahoos like you get them when they don't need them. "Just because" isn't the reason.
Not at all. You gonna go after Ed on those same grounds, btw?
Ed's most powerful weapon is his penis. That, I can't go after.
QuoteShall Issue FTW.
Yup. And they Shall Issue it to me again after they process my PI license application.
Got the 6.5 swede's scope on, leveled, and boresighted for tomorrow. Wham, bam thankya ma'am.
Three metric rifles going.
Quote from: derspiess on July 14, 2013, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2013, 11:02:05 PM
Because that's the only reason yahoos like you get them when they don't need them. "Just because" isn't the reason.
Not at all. You gonna go after Ed on those same grounds, btw?
Quote
Had to turn the one in when I lost my job, and I let my other one lapse with my PI license since I didn't need it. WHO KNEW
Shall Issue FTW.
Plz leave me out of the pissing contest. Thanks. :)
And you're nuttier than squirrel shit, too.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 15, 2013, 03:56:15 AM
And you're nuttier than squirrel shit, too.
Am I nuttier than squirrel shit? :)
Yes. Yes, you are.
Ah, the smell of Hoppe's in the morning.
Good day at the range yesterday. Verified the 175 and 200 grain bullet loads in the 8x57mm. Verified the 160 grain load in the 7x64mm. :showoff: Next trip will be working with the lighter bullet weights (150's & 160's) in the 8x57mm. Mainly for reference, as I dont have much use for them.
Now the tedious part. Case inspection, cleaning, resizing/decapping, trimming, cleaning, case inspection.
Maybe the Glock 20 10mm and Sig 250 .40 S&W will go next time for shits and giggles.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 16, 2013, 12:54:30 PM
Ah, the smell of Hoppe's in the morning.
I used to hate the smell, but I sorta like it these days.
Ooooooooooooo shiny.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/994835_10201396186377822_1499657611_n.jpg)
With this batch and another batch of 47 8x57 cases, I only have to trim 12 cases to length. :showoff:
I have a ziploc full of once-fired 8x57 brass. Plus I also have some spent Yugo berdan-primed brass I just can't bring myself to get rid of.
Not to mention a buttload of 5.56, 9mm, & 7.62x25 brass.
I think I might take baby steps on this reloading thing. I'd like to clean, de-prime & trim the brass I have. I think I have the latter two figured out, but what kind of tumbler (or whatever) and media should I use to clean it?
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2013, 08:17:31 PM
I have a ziploc full of once-fired 8x57 brass. Plus I also have some spent Yugo berdan-primed brass I just can't bring myself to get rid of.
Not to mention a buttload of 5.56, 9mm, & 7.62x25 brass.
I think I might take baby steps on this reloading thing. I'd like to clean, de-prime & trim the brass I have. I think I have the latter two figured out, but what kind of tumbler (or whatever) and media should I use to clean it?
Something along these lines. Any brand will do. Of the three.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/158440/lyman-turbo-1200-pro-sifter-case-tumbler-110-volt
and this
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/411956/rcbs-formula-1-brass-cleaning-media-walnut-hull-5-lb
and this
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1544122273/flitz-brass-case-polish
Unless your going to get into decapping and priming berdan brass...dump it. Stay with boxer primed.
http://davecushman.net/berdandecap.html
Quote from: 11B4V on July 16, 2013, 08:41:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2013, 08:17:31 PM
I have a ziploc full of once-fired 8x57 brass. Plus I also have some spent Yugo berdan-primed brass I just can't bring myself to get rid of.
Not to mention a buttload of 5.56, 9mm, & 7.62x25 brass.
I think I might take baby steps on this reloading thing. I'd like to clean, de-prime & trim the brass I have. I think I have the latter two figured out, but what kind of tumbler (or whatever) and media should I use to clean it?
Something along these lines. Any brand will do. Of the three.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/158440/lyman-turbo-1200-pro-sifter-case-tumbler-110-volt
and this
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/411956/rcbs-formula-1-brass-cleaning-media-walnut-hull-5-lb
and this
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1544122273/flitz-brass-case-polish
Cool, thanks.
QuoteUnless your going to get into decapping and priming berdan brass...dump it. Stay with boxer primed.
http://davecushman.net/berdandecap.html
Just can't bring myself to do it. I also have some 1939-dated German 8x56R brass I might actually sell because there is a market for it even though it's berdan. I used to like leaving a few at the range to see people freak out about finding "Nazi brass".
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2013, 09:17:52 PM
Just can't bring myself to do it. I also have some 1939-dated German 8x56R brass I might actually sell because there is a market for it even though it's berdan. I used to like leaving a few at the range to see people freak out about finding "Nazi brass".
Ah, yes.
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
They all have a reasonable number of modern rifles/pistols and such, but of course they can't run out and buy more ammo for them.
They can all do the reload thing however.
Assuming they always save their brass, can/could they simply keep on reloading their ammo over and over again? Maybe they are not going to have access to modern higher quality propellant, but assuming they could get the 1630s equivalent, could they just load that shitty black powder into the rounds?
And assuming they could perhaps make better powder than that, how many times can you reload the same cartridge anyway? I would assume at some point the brass just wears out, right?
Performance-wise, you would suffer, but I'm guessing it might still work. You'd have to clean the shit out of the gun after relatively few rounds, and clean well-- black powder is highly corrosive. But for most ARs I don't think it would work too well. The gas tube would probably clog up (as it did in Vietnam when the wrong powder was used by a contractor who made the ammo) and you'd probably have to manually cycle the bolt for each round after a few shots.
I'm guessing AKs would do better than ARs with sub-optimal ammo.
I think they are mostly looking at non-military firearms. Rifles and such, plenty semi-auto, but no assault rifles for the most part.
They did have an M60 though with a few thousand rounds of ammo...
Ignoring the powder waulity issue for the moment, is there a life to the actual shell itself? Can it be reloading indefinitely?
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
Funny, you always struck me as being too intelligent to do something like that.
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:13:29 AM
Ignoring the powder waulity issue for the moment, is there a life to the actual shell itself? Can it be reloading indefinitely?
A google search for "how many times can I reload brass" seems to indicate that at some point the brass will split and be unusable, and that this typically happens somewhere < 50 reloads, often < 20 reloads, with a lot of people using "reload 5 times and toss" as a rule of thumb.
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:12:43 AM
I think they are mostly looking at non-military firearms. Rifles and such, plenty semi-auto, but no assault rifles for the most part.
I imagine you'd have to tinker with the load a little, and be prepared to get less range, velocity, etc. but I'm guessing bolt action rifles would fare the best.
QuoteThey did have an M60 though with a few thousand rounds of ammo...
That would be a nightmare to shoot and maintain after you run out of good ammo.
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:13:29 AM
Ignoring the powder waulity issue for the moment, is there a life to the actual shell itself? Can it be reloading indefinitely?
Not indefinitely, but close. I've seen tests where they reloaded 5.56/.223 brass 30 times.. A few of the cases eventually ruptured, but most kept going. But since the cases expand after each firing to the point where you have to re-form them with dies and trim the excess, the metal does thin out. You'd eventually have a point where it would get too thin.
I'm too lazy to reload my rounds.
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
They all have a reasonable number of modern rifles/pistols and such, but of course they can't run out and buy more ammo for them.
They can all do the reload thing however.
Assuming they always save their brass, can/could they simply keep on reloading their ammo over and over again? Maybe they are not going to have access to modern higher quality propellant, but assuming they could get the 1630s equivalent, could they just load that shitty black powder into the rounds?
And assuming they could perhaps make better powder than that, how many times can you reload the same cartridge anyway? I would assume at some point the brass just wears out, right?
Where do these 1700s reloaders get new primers from?
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2013, 08:27:51 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
They all have a reasonable number of modern rifles/pistols and such, but of course they can't run out and buy more ammo for them.
They can all do the reload thing however.
Assuming they always save their brass, can/could they simply keep on reloading their ammo over and over again? Maybe they are not going to have access to modern higher quality propellant, but assuming they could get the 1630s equivalent, could they just load that shitty black powder into the rounds?
And assuming they could perhaps make better powder than that, how many times can you reload the same cartridge anyway? I would assume at some point the brass just wears out, right?
Where do these 1700s reloaders get new primers from?
The 1632 books actually go into this in some detail, at least in the offshoot Grantville Gazettes. For primers I believe they ended up with potassium chlorate and some unsafe mercury fulminates.
I only fire original military rounds.
Quote from: ulmont on July 17, 2013, 08:51:28 AM
The 1632 books actually go into this in some detail, at least in the offshoot Grantville Gazettes. For primers I believe they ended up with potassium chlorate and some unsafe mercury fulminates.
Hey, if they can make primers, maybe they can set up a smokeless powder factory. ;)
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
How did they tell?
Quote from: The Brain on July 17, 2013, 09:10:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
How did they tell?
:lol:
If I were in place of those couple of guys, I would employ a system much like the one used in German concentration camps to control a large number of people with few numbers of your own. After establishing such a fiefdom, I would put the highest priority on firearm R&D, to help along the firearm technology to the point where the natives cold produce the bullets for you. Hopefully me and the fellow modern gun nuts would remember enough of modern technology to really give the captive natives a good head start.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 17, 2013, 08:13:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
Funny, you always struck me as being too intelligent to do something like that.
It actually wasn't bad at all. A bit hokey obviously, but it made for decent light/fun reading.
I actually like that one of the themes seems to be the desire by the leader of the group to avoid letting the new "United States" become a military dictatorship/empire.
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2013, 09:58:01 AM
If I were in place of those couple of guys, I would employ a system much like the one used in German concentration camps to control a large number of people with few numbers of your own. After establishing such a fiefdom, I would put the highest priority on firearm R&D, to help along the firearm technology to the point where the natives cold produce the bullets for you. Hopefully me and the fellow modern gun nuts would remember enough of modern technology to really give the captive natives a good head start.
I doubt whether having some modern firearms would overawe the natives of the 17th century enough to establish your dictatorship of evil. ;)
Sure, they are better than what the natives have, but not by *that* much that a handful of random 21st century types could (say) consistently defeat a colonial militia that significantly outnumbered them so badly as to force them into slavery.
Not slavery, more like serfdom. Slaves won't be able to think outside the box while researching the bullet cartridge technology.
Huh, the russian goes for the Work camp solution. WHO WOULDA THUNK IT
Quote from: Malthus on July 17, 2013, 10:59:02 AM
Sure, they are better than what the natives have, but not by *that* much that a handful of random 21st century types could (say) consistently defeat a colonial militia that significantly outnumbered them so badly as to force them into slavery.
The point of my system would be to have a militia of my own, by employing a ladder of terror. Get enough underlings to work for you and oppress their own underlings, until you develop a classes of people who are very much vested in your continued success.
You could employ my bladder of terror.
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 17, 2013, 08:13:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
Funny, you always struck me as being too intelligent to do something like that.
It actually wasn't bad at all. A bit hokey obviously, but it made for decent light/fun reading.
I actually like that one of the themes seems to be the desire by the leader of the group to avoid letting the new "United States" become a military dictatorship/empire.
My issue with Flint is after reading a few books they are all the same. Catholics and English are bad. Scots and Irish are good because they hate English. Protestants are good because they hate Catholics. Catholic Irish are tragically conflicted.
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:13:29 AM
Ignoring the powder waulity issue for the moment, is there a life to the actual shell itself? Can it be reloading indefinitely?
No
If they dont load it "Hot", the brass will last for a while. Some of that brass you see in the pic I posted has 6 reloads on them.
I have reloaded Magnum Rifle cartridges quite a bit. Generally your magnums are loaded as high as 65k PSI (see the typical cartridge PSI's below). I've had unusable magnum rifle brass after the second reload.
There is a major indicator and it's not a split case. The primer pocket enlarges just enough to where the case cant hold a primer. The primer will be loose fitting or just plain fall out when you try to seat it. One of the checks for this in the hand loading process is, there should be a slight resistance to seat the primer. I use a hand priming tool and it's easy to tell.
Another way is to check the case web area inside the empty case. The pic below shows the area you want to check. All it takes is a simple paper clip. If you feel the ridge or ring while running a paper clip just above the case web area, it indicates a thinning of the brass in that area. This will result in what's called "Incipient Case Head Separation".
Case is split only to show where and what you are checking for.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faccurateshooter.net%2FBlog%2Fcasehead03.jpg&hash=adbe2f98d8c08c2a954a63a75d84fd1c46a62108)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2Fnecchi%2Fhpim0660.jpg&hash=72b8906bf0cebeb3cfdf6fed5f4824233b5746cd)
What it can look like from the outside in an extreme case.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1049.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs385%2Frobertf2%2FIMG_2374.jpg&hash=73cfa5693b39dc4d62a2683c5200e049bbd5be56)
So if your not loading a case at it's maximum, it will last for a while.
PSI
30-06: 58K
8mm Mauser: 55K- 58K
7mm Remington Mag: 60K-63K
270, 300, 340, etc Weatherby Magnums: 65K
Quote from: Maximus on July 17, 2013, 12:34:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 17, 2013, 08:13:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
So I just got done reading that alt-history 1632 book about a bunch of guys who go back in time from modern day West Virginia.
Funny, you always struck me as being too intelligent to do something like that.
It actually wasn't bad at all. A bit hokey obviously, but it made for decent light/fun reading.
I actually like that one of the themes seems to be the desire by the leader of the group to avoid letting the new "United States" become a military dictatorship/empire.
My issue with Flint is after reading a few books they are all the same. Catholics and English are bad. Scots and Irish are good because they hate English. Protestants are good because they hate Catholics. Catholic Irish are tragically conflicted.
The first one was free. I enjoyed it, but I am not sure I enjoyed it enough to pay for any more of the books. So perhaps it is best that I just stop now, if it becomes a bit obvious and formulaic.
On the other hand, a story set in that time is going to have kind of obvious good guys and bad guys, right? Obviously the "powers that be" will have the greatest vested interest in opposing the radical change being introduced, and that is going to be the major powers of the day - the Catholic Church, Spain, France, England.
Thanks 11B. Long story short, they could probably reload, the brass would last for at least several reloads (especially given the certainly vastly less powerful powder available), but there would be serious problems with the weapons becoming fouled with that shitty powder.
They had an entire mining community get moved, so they do have access to machine shops, an entire high school worth of chemistry stuff, and some reasonable competent technical people who could, in theory at least, improve powder manufacture themselves.
How convenient. It would have been more interesting if a university's computer science department got transposed. :P
Quote from: derspiess on July 17, 2013, 08:21:59 AM
But since the cases expand after each firing to the point where you have to re-form them with dies and trim the excess, the metal does thin out. You'd eventually have a point where it would get too thin.
That reminds me. One my officers came in before shift last week, and said he got a 30-06 case stuck the sizing die. I told him to get a stuck case removal kit. Well he had already past that point. He tried to use a metal rod to pound the case out and ended up breaking the rim off the case. So the kit was out of the question. I had an extra Lee 30-06 die set, so I traded him for RCBS small base 223 dies.
For future reference, he was using spray-on case lube and a stuck case is all to common with that shit. For close to 25 years I have used the RCBS goop with a pad and never had a stuck case. Fucking kids these days. :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fuserdocs%2Fproducts%2Fl_749010613_1.jpg&hash=e9f838964b67c8a7fd18252318d046ea2ebd6e07)
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2013, 01:23:03 PM
How convenient. It would have been more interesting if a university's computer science department got transposed. :P
Scene, circa 1400 AD, North Africa:
"Ahmed, these new slaves are worthless :mad:"
Besides, anyone from rural West Virginia will probably feel right at home in 17th century Europe, making a fish out of water setting much less effective. :P
What would suck would to be someone from the 17th century finding himself in current day rural West Virginia. How depressing would that be??
Quote from: derspiess on July 17, 2013, 01:53:42 PM
What would suck would to be someone from the 17th century finding himself in current day rural West Virginia. How depressing would that be??
:lol:
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 01:16:44 PM
The first one was free. I enjoyed it, but I am not sure I enjoyed it enough to pay for any more of the books. So perhaps it is best that I just stop now, if it becomes a bit obvious and formulaic.
On the other hand, a story set in that time is going to have kind of obvious good guys and bad guys, right? Obviously the "powers that be" will have the greatest vested interest in opposing the radical change being introduced, and that is going to be the major powers of the day - the Catholic Church, Spain, France, England.
Sure. It wasn't until reading some of his unrelated books that that pattern really struck me. FWIW I enjoyed the original 1632 as well.
Quote from: Maximus on July 17, 2013, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 17, 2013, 01:16:44 PM
The first one was free. I enjoyed it, but I am not sure I enjoyed it enough to pay for any more of the books. So perhaps it is best that I just stop now, if it becomes a bit obvious and formulaic.
On the other hand, a story set in that time is going to have kind of obvious good guys and bad guys, right? Obviously the "powers that be" will have the greatest vested interest in opposing the radical change being introduced, and that is going to be the major powers of the day - the Catholic Church, Spain, France, England.
Sure. It wasn't until reading some of his unrelated books that that pattern really struck me. FWIW I enjoyed the original 1632 as well.
Yeah, I could certainly see that - he is pretty 'Rah rah, America FUK YEAH!". I wasn't sure if that was just what he was going for in this particular story, or if it was his own idealism bleeding in, which would get old very fast.
This is one thing that I was always pretty impressed with in regards to Orson Scott Card. I know he has very firm political and religious views. And those views certainly inform his writing, but he is not slavishly devoted to them in a manner that gets tedious. In fact, some of his stories are pretty anti-religion in tone, while still (I think) allowing him to make a statement about the nature of faith and knowledge.
It is a fine line to walk, I am sure.
Taking this to the book thread as it's more on topic.
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2013, 11:48:27 AM
From WSJ:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1003995_10151768201073128_646658260_n.jpg)
Other states went and copied Vermont, so now instead of being called "Vermont carry," the unrestricted right to carry* is being called "constitutional carry." :rolleyes: The Vermont Constitution's version of the 2nd Amendment makes it very explicit that the right to bear arms is for self-protection as well as militia purposes, so that argument never really gets off the ground.
*I believe under Vermont law you cannot carry if you have the "avowed intent or express desire to harm a fellow man", otherwise you're good. (If you haven't lost the right to have a gun in the first place, of course -- see e.g. felony convictions, domestic violence protection ("stop abuse") orders, etc.
I might have to join the gun nut society once I move up there and have nothing to do with my free time in the frozen tundra (except study to re-take the bar exam in February.) :)
Ok, here is a really dumb question. Why can't you guys buy bullets etc to the specs you need? Why all the need for triming and all the other things you do to get ready to shoot?
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 17, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Ok, here is a really dumb question. Why can't you guys buy bullets etc to the specs you need? Why all the need for triming and all the other things you do to get ready to shoot?
It's not a dumb question
Hmm, well I dont want to blow my face off would be the short answer.
By trimming I'm assuming you mean as to why trim the case. Each case has a maixiumum length you dont want to exceed. i.e. the 8x57mm (8mm Mauser) max case length is 2.240". You dont want to exceed that. You will trimm that case back to 2.230" what's called, "trim to length". As you fire, resize, fire, resize the casings grow in length. This can lead to a spike in pressure which would make a near maxiumum loading over pressured. Bad things can happen.
Cartridge Overall Length (COAL) is also important and is rifle specific and bullet specific depending on where that particular bullets ogive contacts the lands.. The bullet needs to jump a little before it engages the lands. You normally try to seat the bullet a little off the lands. i.e. In my Remington 8x57mm the max COAL with a 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip is 3.15". I seat this bullet to a length of 3.10". This is from the bottom of the case to the tip of the bullet measure with a vernier caliper. Seat a bullet too deep and it will spike pressures. If the COAL is to long and jams the bullet into the lands...guess what, a spike in pressure.
Using a large rifle and Magnum large rifle primer will make a difference. The Mag primer burns hotter.
Charge a rifle case with a short charge of slow burning powder. Kaboom.
Normally a 8x57mm case will take 53 grains of a medium slow burning rifle powder. Make a mistake and load it with 53grains of fast burning pistol or shotgun powder, you rifle explodes.
Powders have different burn rates. Effects pressure depending on the charge weight.
Ever heard what's called bullet set back? A term used in autoloading pistols. It will spike pressure and has blown pistols up. It's when the chambering of the round causes the bullet to get pushed further into the case. Usually happens by repeatedly chambering the same bullet. Like in a concealed carry pistol for example. That's why I drop chamber the first round for my off duty carry pistol then stick the mag when I initially load it for the day.
The Big Brown Truck just dropped off 5000 large rifle primers, 8mm and 7mm bullets, and the RCBS 30-06 to 8x57mm form die.
Today's a good day.
Put the form die to work.
Cases from L. to R.;
New Winchester 30-06 case.
Untrimmed and first stage of forming through the 30-06 to 8x57mm form die.
Trimmed and a pass through the 8x57mm sizing die.
presto 8x57mm case. :P
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1069934_10201402568617374_2003785662_n.jpg)
To answer CC's question a little differently, reloading & handloading ammo is a hobby unto itself. Some guys do it to save money (though you usually have to reload a large quantity to just break even), others do it because the particular caliber they shoot is either hard to find or practically non-existent commercially. Others do it to make their own super-accurized match-grade ammo. And some do it just for fun.
For me, I want to get into reloading to make use of all my spent brass. Logically the best thing for me to do would be to just sell my brass to people who reload and use that money to subsidize future ammo purchases, since I don't really burn through that much ammo. But I'd still like to learn to reload so I at least have that option if it becomes more cost-effective.
Interesting. Thanks guys.
Quote from: derspiess on July 17, 2013, 07:17:26 PM
To answer CC's question a little differently, reloading & handloading ammo is a hobby unto itself. Some guys do it to save money (though you usually have to reload a large quantity to just break even), others do it because the particular caliber they shoot is either hard to find or practically non-existent commercially. Others do it to make their own super-accurized match-grade ammo. And some do it just for fun.
For me, I want to get into reloading to make use of all my spent brass. Logically the best thing for me to do would be to just sell my brass to people who reload and use that money to subsidize future ammo purchases, since I don't really burn through that much ammo. But I'd still like to learn to reload so I at least have that option if it becomes more cost-effective.
It seems a really odd sort of hobby - all the fun of a repetitive by-hand industrial process, with the added excitement that you are working with explosives and so if anything goes wrong you could blow off body parts. :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2013, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 17, 2013, 07:17:26 PM
To answer CC's question a little differently, reloading & handloading ammo is a hobby unto itself. Some guys do it to save money (though you usually have to reload a large quantity to just break even), others do it because the particular caliber they shoot is either hard to find or practically non-existent commercially. Others do it to make their own super-accurized match-grade ammo. And some do it just for fun.
For me, I want to get into reloading to make use of all my spent brass. Logically the best thing for me to do would be to just sell my brass to people who reload and use that money to subsidize future ammo purchases, since I don't really burn through that much ammo. But I'd still like to learn to reload so I at least have that option if it becomes more cost-effective.
It seems a really odd sort of hobby - all the fun of a repetitive by-hand industrial process, with the added excitement that you are working with explosives and so if anything goes wrong you could blow off body parts. :hmm:
The only thing that is repetitive is the reloading process. Which is exactly what you want. The same procedures every time from beginning to end. The results you get from different bullet/powder combos is different.
I just havent posted some of the fruits of my labor yet.
example
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunandgame.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Fgeneral-reloading%2F61969d1372912038-8mm-mauser-pet-loads-004.jpg&hash=23c44081641abba623eb9a01ca297892f4d71b02)
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2013, 11:16:13 AM
It seems a really odd sort of hobby - all the fun of a repetitive by-hand industrial process, with the added excitement that you are working with explosives and so if anything goes wrong you could blow off body parts. :hmm:
I think it appeals to the "do it yourself" instinct a lot of people have. Plus, some people are control freaks so this gives them that control over their ammo load. I haven't really heard too many accidents with reloading itself. I have heard of second-hand accounts of people ruining their firearms and (somewhat less often) injure themselves from shooting too ammo they loaded too hotly.
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2013, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2013, 11:16:13 AM
It seems a really odd sort of hobby - all the fun of a repetitive by-hand industrial process, with the added excitement that you are working with explosives and so if anything goes wrong you could blow off body parts. :hmm:
I think it appeals to the "do it yourself" instinct a lot of people have. Plus, some people are control freaks so this gives them that control over their ammo load. I haven't really heard too many accidents with reloading itself. I have heard of second-hand accounts of people ruining their firearms and (somewhat less often) injure themselves from shooting too ammo they loaded too hotly.
Quite true.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftednugentammo.com%2Ftnshop%2Fimages%2FTNAmmoBox.png&hash=f1385021fc27006c7b018550c313f2d7dcae3d1b)
Ugh.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 25, 2013, 05:29:01 PM
Ugh.
Dont be hatin' on "Teh Nuge". :P
BTW last work-ups for the range on monday are done.
(https://sites.google.com/site/8mmmauserreloading/_/rsrc/1374645823624/home/P1010104.JPG)
The nuge needs to shut the fuck up.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 25, 2013, 05:40:01 PM
The nuge needs to shut the fuck up.
:P He has his own ammo line, do you? :blurgh:
Quote from: 11B4V on July 25, 2013, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 25, 2013, 05:40:01 PM
The nuge needs to shut the fuck up.
:P He has his own ammo line, do you? :blurgh:
I wash my car to
stranglehold while wearing short shorts.
Scrub that image out of your mind now.
At first I thought the box read "Killer ammo for curious hunters", and I was all like LULZ, Ted and 11B wants to suck dick.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 25, 2013, 06:01:54 PM
At first I thought the box read "Killer ammo for curious hunters", and I was all like LULZ, Ted and 11B wants to suck dick.
Your favorite color is potato too.
It's "poTATo".
Finally broke down and bought Quickload after putting it off for a number of years. Been using another load program predictor called Load from a Disk for a long while. Quickload is much more indepth and the 150.00 price tag reflects it.
It will come in handy when reloading the 338-06 Improved after the fire forming process. All previous load work-ups are null and void with this rifle, since I had the barrel set back and rechambered.
Example of the main loading program.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.6mmbr.citymaker.com%2Fi%2FTech%2520Diagrams%2FQuickLOAD_FullScreenP.png&hash=7e5c0ac0690ce409bc941e835de93beecefba763)
:mellow:
Quote from: garbon on July 25, 2013, 08:21:55 PM
:mellow:
*FACTION ACHIEVEMENT*THE REDNECK FACTION HAS ACHIEVED; ADVANCED SMALL ARMS COMPUTER BALLISTICS PROGRAM.+10 SMALL ARMS ACCURACY
+15 INCREASED SMALL ARMS PRODUCTION.
-35 BACKYARD SMALL ARMS RELOADING ACCIDENTS
:lol:
Hilarious.
Gun nuts. :rolleyes:
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 08:18:46 AM
Hilarious.
*Faction Achievement*
Glitter Faction has achieved: Advanced Sarcasm
:P
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 26, 2013, 08:36:13 AM
Gun nuts. :rolleyes:
Yeah. I do like target shooting and am a proponent of responsible hunting though. I've never shot skeet; seems like it'd be fun.
Quote from: Malthus on July 26, 2013, 10:03:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 08:18:46 AM
Hilarious.
*Faction Achievement*
Glitter Faction has achieved: Advanced Sarcasm
:P
I'd already achieved that in childhood.
Quote from: fhdz on July 26, 2013, 12:25:12 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 26, 2013, 08:36:13 AM
Gun nuts. :rolleyes:
Yeah. I do like target shooting and am a proponent of responsible hunting though. I've never shot skeet; seems like it'd be fun.
It is.
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 26, 2013, 10:03:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 08:18:46 AM
Hilarious.
*Faction Achievement*
Glitter Faction has achieved: Advanced Sarcasm
:P
I'd already achieved that in childhood.
:yeahright: You? I find that hard to believe.
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
:(
Well it certainly wasn't yours. :rolleyes:
You two have history, I take it? :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
So a derringer, then. Got it :P
Mortar.
Anyway, on a serious note, I've nothing about guns for recreation. I think I said here somewhere that I'd totally be up for going to a gun range if someone took me.
What I don't quite get is guns as a funny enough hobby that you are customizing and running computer simulations.
Quote from: Malthus on July 26, 2013, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
:(
Well it certainly wasn't yours. :rolleyes:
You two have history, I take it? :hmm:
Gee, I supposedly do so much self-promotion on here and yet no one can even remember my basic biography. :Embarrass:
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
So a derringer, then. Got it :P
Mortar.
Anyway, on a serious note, I've nothing about guns for recreation. I think I said here somewhere that I'd totally be up for going to a gun range if someone took me.
What I don't quite get is guns as a funny enough hobby that you are customizing and running computer simulations.
I dont get what you mean by "funny enough"
The program is a very indepth internal/external ballistics simulator.
Sorry meant fun. :D
Quote from: 11B4V on July 26, 2013, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
So a derringer, then. Got it :P
Mortar.
Anyway, on a serious note, I've nothing about guns for recreation. I think I said here somewhere that I'd totally be up for going to a gun range if someone took me.
What I don't quite get is guns as a funny enough hobby that you are customizing and running computer simulations.
I dont get what you mean by "funny enough"
The program is a very indepth internal/external ballistics simulator.
Nothing more hilarious than an indepth internal/external ballistics simulator, now, is there. ;)
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 03:06:45 PM
Sorry meant fun. :D
Ah.
The external ballistics calculator is self explanatory. The internal one is used for simulating varibles like charge weight, primer type, bullet seating depth, pressure, etc. It is an immense help when doing load work-ups with a particular combination of components (bullet, powder,primer).
Again, I don't see how it would be enough fun to want to put in that sort of work. ;)
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 03:26:08 PM
Again, I don't see how it would be enough fun to want to put in that sort of work. ;)
Really not that much work. Hard part is learning to use the program.
Quote from: Malthus on July 26, 2013, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
:(
Well it certainly wasn't yours. :rolleyes:
You two have history, I take it? :hmm:
Ugh, don't remind me. :(
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 26, 2013, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 26, 2013, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 01:52:57 PM
So what is your favorite gun, garbon?
It's between my legs.
:(
Well it certainly wasn't yours. :rolleyes:
You two have history, I take it? :hmm:
Ugh, don't remind me. :(
Night of your life.
American democracy at work. :yeah: Deliberately voting for laws that are unconstitutional, because you believe the voters to be idiots (probably rightly so). Surely there has to be some way to hold the legislators responsible for deliberately and knowingly ignoring the constitution?
QuoteDemocrats to aid Republicans on Mo. gun bill
LikeDislike
Associated Press David a. Lieb, Associated Press 3 hours ago
PoliticsLegislature
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- With the help of a few Democrats, Missouri's Republican-led Legislature appears to be positioned to override Gov. Jay Nixon's veto of a high-profile bill that seeks to nullify federal gun-control laws in the state and make criminals out of federal agents who attempt to enforce them.
Several of Nixon's fellow Democrats confirmed to The Associated Press that they would vote to override his veto when lawmakers convene in September, even while agreeing with the governor that the bill couldn't survive a court challenge. Many of them noted that in some parts of Missouri, a "no" vote on gun legislation could be career ending.
"We love our guns and we love hunting. It's not worth the fight for me to vote against it," said Rep. T.J. McKenna, D-Festus. But, he added, "the bill is completely unconstitutional, so the courts are going to have to throw it out."
The legislation would make it a misdemeanor for federal agents to attempt to enforce any federal gun regulations that "infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms." The same criminal charges would apply to journalists who publish any identifying information about gun owners. The charge would be punishable by up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
Nixon said the bill infringes on the U.S. Constitution by giving precedence to state law over federal laws and by limiting the First Amendment rights of media.
The legislation is one of the boldest measures yet in a recent national trend in which states are attempting to nullify federal laws. A recent Associated Press analysis found that about four-fifths of the states have enacted local laws that directly reject or ignore federal laws on gun control, marijuana use, health insurance requirements and identification standards for driver's licenses. Relatively few of those go so far as to threaten criminal charges against federal authorities.
If Republican lawmakers stick together in Missouri, they would need only one Democrat in the House and none in the Senate to get the required two-thirds majority vote in both chambers. That translates to 109 votes in the House and 23 in the Senate.
McKenna was among 11 House Democrats who joined Republicans to pass the legislation in May, by a 116-38 vote. The bill cleared the Senate 26-6, with two Democrats supporting it.
Although Republicans currently hold 109 House seats, they're down at least one of their own. Rep. Jay Barnes was the only Republican to vote against the original bill and said he opposes a veto override.
"Our Constitution is not a Chinese buffet, which we like and do not like," the Jefferson City attorney told the AP. "The First Amendment is part of the Constitution that we must uphold. ... (And) the supremacy clause means that states cannot criminalize the activities of agents of the federal government."
There's also a chance that other Republicans and supportive Democrats could change their minds or miss the vote.
But so far, at least three House Democrats — McKenna, Keith English of Florissant and Ben Harris of Hillsboro — said they would support a veto override, and Democratic Rep. Jeff Roorda of Barnhart said he was leaning toward it.
"Being a rural-area Democrat, if you don't vote for any gun bill, it will kill you," Harris said. "That's what the Republicans want you to do is vote against it, because if you vote against it, they'll send one mailer every week just blasting you about guns, and you'll lose" re-election.
Four other Democrats who voted for the bill told the AP they were now undecided. At least one of the original Democratic "yes" votes — Rep. Steve Hodges, of East Prairie — said he would switch to a "no."
Pro-gun legislation typically has received bipartisan support in Missouri. In 2003, the Republican-led Legislature overrode Democratic Gov. Bob Holden's veto of legislation legalizing concealed guns with the help of Democrats. That same year, Democrats helped Republicans in override another Holden veto of a bill limiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
This year's vetoed gun bill is entitled the "Second Amendment Preservation Act" — a label that some Democrats said makes it politically risky to oppose.
Democratic Rep. Ed Schieffer, who proclaims himself "100 percent pro-gun," said he voted for the bill in May with an eye toward a potential 2014 state Senate campaign against Republican Rep. Jeanie Riddle, of Mokane, who also supported the bill. Schieffer, of Troy, said he is undecided whether to support a veto override.
"I personally believe that any higher court will probably rule this particular gun law unconstitutional — on that, I probably agree that the governor's right," Schieffer said. "But I may end up still voting for the gun bill, because I don't want to be on record for not supporting guns.""
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2013, 06:33:59 PM
American democracy at work. :yeah: Deliberately voting for laws that are unconstitutional, because you believe the voters to be idiots (probably rightly so). Surely there has to be some way to hold the legislators responsible for deliberately and knowingly ignoring the constitution?
QuoteDemocrats to aid Republicans on Mo. gun bill
LikeDislike
Associated Press David a. Lieb, Associated Press 3 hours ago
PoliticsLegislature
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- With the help of a few Democrats, Missouri's Republican-led Legislature appears to be positioned to override Gov. Jay Nixon's veto of a high-profile bill that seeks to nullify federal gun-control laws in the state and make criminals out of federal agents who attempt to enforce them.
Several of Nixon's fellow Democrats confirmed to The Associated Press that they would vote to override his veto when lawmakers convene in September, even while agreeing with the governor that the bill couldn't survive a court challenge. Many of them noted that in some parts of Missouri, a "no" vote on gun legislation could be career ending.
"We love our guns and we love hunting. It's not worth the fight for me to vote against it," said Rep. T.J. McKenna, D-Festus. But, he added, "the bill is completely unconstitutional, so the courts are going to have to throw it out."
The legislation would make it a misdemeanor for federal agents to attempt to enforce any federal gun regulations that "infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms." The same criminal charges would apply to journalists who publish any identifying information about gun owners. The charge would be punishable by up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
Nixon said the bill infringes on the U.S. Constitution by giving precedence to state law over federal laws and by limiting the First Amendment rights of media.
The legislation is one of the boldest measures yet in a recent national trend in which states are attempting to nullify federal laws. A recent Associated Press analysis found that about four-fifths of the states have enacted local laws that directly reject or ignore federal laws on gun control, marijuana use, health insurance requirements and identification standards for driver's licenses. Relatively few of those go so far as to threaten criminal charges against federal authorities.
If Republican lawmakers stick together in Missouri, they would need only one Democrat in the House and none in the Senate to get the required two-thirds majority vote in both chambers. That translates to 109 votes in the House and 23 in the Senate.
McKenna was among 11 House Democrats who joined Republicans to pass the legislation in May, by a 116-38 vote. The bill cleared the Senate 26-6, with two Democrats supporting it.
Although Republicans currently hold 109 House seats, they're down at least one of their own. Rep. Jay Barnes was the only Republican to vote against the original bill and said he opposes a veto override.
"Our Constitution is not a Chinese buffet, which we like and do not like," the Jefferson City attorney told the AP. "The First Amendment is part of the Constitution that we must uphold. ... (And) the supremacy clause means that states cannot criminalize the activities of agents of the federal government."
There's also a chance that other Republicans and supportive Democrats could change their minds or miss the vote.
But so far, at least three House Democrats — McKenna, Keith English of Florissant and Ben Harris of Hillsboro — said they would support a veto override, and Democratic Rep. Jeff Roorda of Barnhart said he was leaning toward it.
"Being a rural-area Democrat, if you don't vote for any gun bill, it will kill you," Harris said. "That's what the Republicans want you to do is vote against it, because if you vote against it, they'll send one mailer every week just blasting you about guns, and you'll lose" re-election.
Four other Democrats who voted for the bill told the AP they were now undecided. At least one of the original Democratic "yes" votes — Rep. Steve Hodges, of East Prairie — said he would switch to a "no."
Pro-gun legislation typically has received bipartisan support in Missouri. In 2003, the Republican-led Legislature overrode Democratic Gov. Bob Holden's veto of legislation legalizing concealed guns with the help of Democrats. That same year, Democrats helped Republicans in override another Holden veto of a bill limiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
This year's vetoed gun bill is entitled the "Second Amendment Preservation Act" — a label that some Democrats said makes it politically risky to oppose.
Democratic Rep. Ed Schieffer, who proclaims himself "100 percent pro-gun," said he voted for the bill in May with an eye toward a potential 2014 state Senate campaign against Republican Rep. Jeanie Riddle, of Mokane, who also supported the bill. Schieffer, of Troy, said he is undecided whether to support a veto override.
"I personally believe that any higher court will probably rule this particular gun law unconstitutional — on that, I probably agree that the governor's right," Schieffer said. "But I may end up still voting for the gun bill, because I don't want to be on record for not supporting guns.""
Dems and GOP working together. How dare they and it takes gun legislation to do it. :lol: Take that Obamatards.
Gun nuts. :rolleyes:
So this place called James River is making M1 Carbines according to the original WWII era blueprints. They're selling them complete with reproduction slings & other goodies. Downside is that the price is about $1200 on the low end :(
(https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/F1JRM1C.jpg)
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2013, 08:18:30 PM
So this place called James River is making M1 Carbines according to the original WWII era blueprints. They're selling them complete with reproduction slings & other goodies. Downside is that the price is about $1200 on the low end :(
Probably made real well too. But ouch on the price.
How much would a real M1 go for these days?
Quote from: katmai on July 26, 2013, 08:43:52 PM
How much would a real M1 go for these days?
http://www.gunsamerica.com/957674487/ORIGINAL_WINCHESTER_M1_CARBINE.htm
Won't let me look beyond the 1st page with out registering, but seems they are going for similar price.
Oh how i wish i could buy a BAR :(
I've seen them cheaper, maybe $800 or so. But that was before the craze (which is slowly continuing to die down).
Quote from: 11B4V on July 26, 2013, 06:52:45 PM
Dems and GOP working together. How dare they and it takes gun legislation to do it. :lol: Take that Obamatards.
You should transfer to Fed property in Missouri, just so you can see some trigger time with the local constabulary.
QuoteThe legislation would make it a misdemeanor for federal agents to attempt to enforce any federal gun regulations that "infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms."
Now that's funny.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 26, 2013, 11:56:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 26, 2013, 06:52:45 PM
Dems and GOP working together. How dare they and it takes gun legislation to do it. :lol: Take that Obamatards.
You should transfer to Fed property in Missouri, just so you can see some trigger time with the local constabulary.
They wouldnt stand a chance, we have heavier hardware.
QuoteThe legislation would make it a misdemeanor for federal agents to attempt to enforce any federal gun regulations that "infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms."
Quote
Now that's funny.
I want to see it pass just to see what the Feds will do.
Ahhh,the m1 carbine. My bro had one but he sold it. :mad:
Quote from: katmai on July 26, 2013, 09:16:25 PM
Oh how i wish i could buy a BAR :(
Yeah, that would be a nifty one to own.
I want a Bren gun.
Weaponized Silly Puddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1tsdfq16Ho
Weaponized Vienna Sausages
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRp7SOulXU
3D printed bullets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn8vsP5E2BI
Weaponized Bubble Gum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuILMKFP8fU&list=SPBE4AC0C59947E7A9
Pfft, gun, schmun.
QuoteA suspect in a home invasion robbery in Essex was killed by the resident in the early hours of Sunday morning, Baltimore County police said.
Lt. Rob McCullough, a county police spokesman, said two armed men broke into the apartment and, in the process, a man in the apartment began to scuffle with one of the suspects. The suspect shot the victim several times, but then the victim picked up some sort of blunt object and struck the suspect in the head with it, killing him instantly, McCullough said. The victim was taken to a hospital in serious but stable condition after the gunshot wounds, McCullough said.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 28, 2013, 09:35:05 PM
Pfft, gun, schmun.
QuoteA suspect in a home invasion robbery in Essex was killed by the resident in the early hours of Sunday morning, Baltimore County police said.
Lt. Rob McCullough, a county police spokesman, said two armed men broke into the apartment and, in the process, a man in the apartment began to scuffle with one of the suspects. The suspect shot the victim several times, but then the victim picked up some sort of blunt object and struck the suspect in the head with it, killing him instantly, McCullough said. The victim was taken to a hospital in serious but stable condition after the gunshot wounds, McCullough said.
He should have had a Mossberg 500 loaded with Vienna Sausage rounds.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 28, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
He should have had a Mossberg 500 loaded with Vienna Sausage rounds.
Sounds like something Cal would pack.
MAH WEENIES
Mmm...waffles :mmm:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-would-be-waffle-house-bandit-shot-by-custom/nY6ny/
QuotePolice: Would-be Waffle House bandit shot by customer
By Mike Morris
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A would-be robber was shot early Monday when he tried to hold up a south Fulton County Waffle House, police said.
Union City police Det. Gloria Hodgson said the suspect entered the Waffle House in the 4300 block of Jonesboro Road just before 2 a.m., "brandishing a pistol and demanding money."
A customer inside the 24-hour diner shot the robbery suspect, Hodgson said.
The suspect, whose name has not been released, was taken to Grady Memorial Hospital for treatment. His condition was not immediately available.
Hodgson said there were no other injuries in the incident.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 27, 2013, 12:55:13 AM
I want to see it pass just to see what the Feds will do.
Hopefully invade.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 29, 2013, 07:13:38 AM
Mmm...waffles :mmm:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-would-be-waffle-house-bandit-shot-by-custom/nY6ny/
I miss the Waffle House. :(
awful waffle
Local place in Cincy has the best waffles I've ever had, even including in Brussels. If you eat them in the restaurant you don't much notice the cost, but a 4-pack of them to go is $12 :pinch:
QuoteArkansas school to arm teachers with concealed weapons
Clarksville district trains 20 teachers and staffers as gun-packing security guards. 'Nighthawk' training aims to prevent Sandy Hook-style shootings.
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Tuesday, July 30, 2013, 10:48 AM
CLARKSVILLE, Ark. -- As Cheyne Dougan rounded the corner at Clarksville High School, he saw three students on the floor moaning and crying. In a split-second, two more ran out of a nearby classroom.
"He's got a gun," one of them shouted as Dougan approached with his pistol drawn. Inside, he found one student holding another at gunpoint. Dougan aimed and fired three rounds at the gunman.
Preparing for such scenarios has become common for police after a school shooting in Connecticut last December left 20 children and six teachers dead. But Dougan is no policeman. He's the assistant principal of this school in Arkansas, and when classes resume in August, he will walk the halls with a 9 mm handgun.
Dougan is among more than 20 teachers, administrators and other school employees in this town who will carry concealed weapons throughout the school day, making use of a little-known Arkansas law that allows licensed, armed security guards on campus. After undergoing 53 hours of training, Dougan and other teachers at the school will be considered guards.
"The plan we've been given in the past is `Well, lock your doors, turn off your lights and hope for the best,'" Superintendent David Hopkins said. But as deadly incidents continued to happen in schools, he explained, the district decided, "That's not a plan."
After the Connecticut attack, the idea of arming schoolhouses against gunmen was hotly debated across the country. The National Rifle Association declared it the best response to serious threats. But even in the most conservative states, most proposals faltered in the face of resistance from educators or warnings from insurance companies that schools would face higher premiums.
In strongly conservative Arkansas, where gun ownership is common and gun laws are permissive, no school district had ever used the law to arm teachers on the job, according to the state Department of Education. The closest was the Lake Hamilton School District in Garland County, which for years has kept several guns locked up in case of emergency. Only a handful of trained administrators - not teachers - have access to the weapons.
Clarksville, a community of 9,200 people about 100 miles northwest of Little Rock, is going further.
Home to an annual peach festival, the town isn't known for having dangerous schools. But Hopkins said he faced a flood of calls from parents worried about safety after the attack last year at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn.
Hopkins said he and other school leaders didn't see why the district couldn't rely on its own staff and teachers to protect students rather than hire someone.
"We're not tying our money up in a guard 24/7 that we won't have to have unless something happens. We've got these people who are already hired and using them in other areas," Hopkins said. "Hopefully we'll never have to use them as a security guard."
State officials are not blocking Clarksville's plan, but Arkansas Education Commissioner Tom Kimbrell is opposed to the idea of arming teachers and staff. He prefers to hire law enforcement officers as school resource officers.
There are other dissenters, too. Donna Morey, former president of the Arkansas Education Association, called the idea of arming teachers "awful." The risk of a student accidentally getting shot or obtaining a gun outweighs any benefits, she said.
"We just think educators should be in the business of educating students, not carrying a weapon," Morey said.
Participants in the program are given a one-time $1,100 stipend to purchase a handgun and holster. Hopkins said the district is paying about $50,000 for ammunition and for training by Nighthawk Custom Training Academy, a private training facility in northwest Arkansas.
The Nighthawk training includes drills like the one Dougan participated in, with various role-playing scenarios involving shooters on campus. Dougan and other teachers in the program practiced using "airsoft" pellet guns, with students wearing protective facemasks and jackets.
"There's pressure on you, because you're shooting real bullets if this actually happened," said Dougan, who has three children attending Clarksville schools. "I was nervous to start, but once it started and I was going through what they had taught us, it just took over."
The training is narrowly tailored for teachers to respond to shooters on campus.
"That teacher is going to respond to one thing and one thing alone, and that's someone is in the building either actively or attempting to kill people," Jon Hodoway, director of training for Nighthawk. "That's it. They're not going to enforce the law. They're not going to make traffic stops. If somebody is outside acting the fool, they're going to call the police."
Using students as actors helps trainers re-create the environment that teachers and staff would face in a typical school shooting, Hodoway explained. The students who participated in the exercise were children of the teachers and staff who were being trained.
Sydney Whitkanack, who will enter seventh grade this fall, said she's grown up around firearms and doesn't mind if teachers or staff are armed at school.
"If they're concealed, then it's no big deal," said Whitkanack, who was an actor in the training scenario. "It's not like someone's going to know `Oh, they have a firearm.'"
The district will post signs at each school about the armed guards, but the identities of faculty and staff carrying weapons will be kept secret, Hopkins said.
Those who participate in the program will continue to receive regular training, he said.
Sherry Wommack said the program is one reason she's taking her son, an incoming eighth-grader, out of Clarksville's schools before the school year begins. Wommack said she doesn't believe teachers should make life-or-death choices involving students.
"I think police officers are trained to make those decisions, not teachers," Wommack said.
(https://www.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1412537.1375194942!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/arming-teachers.jpg)
Good for them.
It's recon time for deer season. First up is Sherwood Creek and the Sherwood Slot.
It would appear some of the prey are using new tactics. :hmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.totaloutdoornetwork.com%2FUserFiles%2F6%2F66%2F6682%2Ff8%2Fp_f825ee22e1a535b312443bad5cb3f629.jpg&hash=76cdcdb4ee2788b9aee170f9d94a95fce45df489)
Go Bears.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 28, 2013, 05:46:51 PM
Weaponized Vienna Sausages
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRp7SOulXU
As if just eatin' 'em wasn't enough to kill you anyway.
Ugh, hunters. Sometimes they just don't take no for an answer when they wanna hunt on my properties.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 09, 2013, 08:52:25 PM
Go Bears.
Here you go Seedy. To the hunters credit he didnt panic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J63MEggZo78
Awwwww, that was so cute! :wub:
He should've given it a treat or a snack or part of his lunch, dammit. :mad:
God damned southern redneck gun nuts.
QuoteNYPD busts 2 weapon smuggling rings to net largest gun seizure in city history
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/city_to_announce_largest_gun_seizure_f6AyBp0dpUpDBWvNoRh5OK
Gun owners of tangency, please store your ammunition with care.
Father and son die as accidental discharge causes stored ammunition to explode: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/20/tennessee-father-and-son-dead-after-ar-15-goes-off-and-ammunition-filled-room-explodes/
Quote from: 11B4V on August 20, 2013, 12:55:31 AM
God damned southern redneck gun nuts.
QuoteNYPD busts 2 weapon smuggling rings to net largest gun seizure in city history
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/city_to_announce_largest_gun_seizure_f6AyBp0dpUpDBWvNoRh5OK
And just who the fuck does the NYPD think they are, trampling all over their 2nd Amendment rights? :mad:
There's been 20 people shot in Baltimore over the last 80 hours.
That is a shitload of paperwork and casing markers.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2013, 10:06:02 PM
There's been 20 people shot in Baltimore over the last 80 hours.
That is a shitload of paperwork and casing markers.
OT, though?
Quote from: derspiess on August 20, 2013, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2013, 10:06:02 PM
There's been 20 people shot in Baltimore over the last 80 hours.
That is a shitload of paperwork and casing markers.
OT, though?
Much to the chagrin of the city accountants. :lol:
I've noticed that the gun nutters have been mum over the McNair Learning Academy shooter in Atlanta on Tuesday.
But I guess the disarming an armed man by unarmed staff doesn't fit the "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" argument. Imagine that.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 06:10:41 PM
I've noticed that the gun nutters have been mum over the McNair Learning Academy shooter in Atlanta on Tuesday.
But I guess the disarming an armed man by unarmed staff doesn't fit the "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" argument. Imagine that.
The 911 tape was awesome.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 06:10:41 PM
I've noticed that the gun nutters have been mum over the McNair Learning Academy shooter in Atlanta on Tuesday.
But I guess the disarming an armed man by unarmed staff doesn't fit the "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" argument. Imagine that.
Nice try.
It's because she's black, isn't it? Would've been cooler if it had been a yahoo whitey cowboy vice principal with a Glock gunning the shooter down, all Wiley West-like! Woo doggies! Yeehaw!
Only thing that can stop a bad trucker with a gun is a good trucker with a gun.
Quote2 injured, 3 dead in Florida shooting spree, police say
By Daniel Arkin, Staff Writer, NBC News
A gunman went on a shooting spree across Union County, Fla., Saturday, killing three people, including himself, police said.
Hubert Allen, Jr., 72, a longtime employee of Pritchett Trucking, Inc., shot four former co-workers, according to a statement from the Union County Sheriff's Office.
Allen allegedly shot and killed a former co-worker, Rolando Gonzalez-Delgado, 28, at an unspecified location around 9:20 a.m., police said.
He then traveled just a short distance away and allegedly gunned down Marvin Pritchett, 80, the owner of the trucking company, according to the statement.
Allen then allegedly confronted another former co-worker, Lewis Mabrey, Jr., 66, driving a farm tractor. Allen allegedly fired one shot from a small bore shotgun, which struck Mabrey in the left arm and his side.
Mabrey was rushed by emergency responders to University of Florida Health Shands Hospital in Gainesville, Fla., where he is slated to undergo surgery late Saturday for a broken arm and other injuries. He is listed in fair condition, according to hospital spokeswoman Michelle Perkins.
Allen then went to the Pritchett Trucking Company premises and shot a third co-worker, David Griffis, 44. Griffis was stuck in the stomach and rushed to the UF hospital for immediate surgery, according to police. He is listed in critical condition, Perkins said.
Authorities are investigating a motive and circumstances for the shooting, the release said. Investigators believe Allen acted alone.
QuoteSeven shot in West Baltimore amid wave of "cluster" shootings
Non-fatal shootings are up by about 23 percent over the same time last year
Seven people — including a 15-year-old boy who was killed — were shot in West Baltimore on Saturday night as police grapple with a recent wave of shootings with multiple victims.
As of Sunday, nonfatal shootings were up in Baltimore by about 23 percent over the same time last year, according to data available through the city's website. Recent weeks have been marked with what Police Commissioner Anthony W. Batts dubbed "cluster" shootings, including a quadruple shooting in Pigtown that killed two and a triple shooting in East Baltimore that injured a 7-year-old boy.
"Seven people shot in a cluster is outrageous for the city and it's unacceptable for us as a whole," Batts said near the scene shortly after Saturday night's shooting, which happened in the 1500 block of W. Fayette St. Police said Deshaun Jones, who turned 15 last month, was killed, while six adults were expected to survive their gunshot wounds.
Batts said hundreds of officers were deployed in the neighborhood where the shooting took place Saturday night, though many of them were dealing with a nearby block party at the time. He said his command staff is investigating whether there is a particular cause for the rise of the multiple-victim shootings, though he said the number of shooting incidents remains about the same as it has over the last few years.
Batts said police have made recent progress in taking illegal guns off the street and in making quality arrests, but said Baltimore residents must take responsibility for violence.
"We have to modify our behavior," said Batts, referring to the citizenry and explaining that police cannot be stationed on every block. "This is not how you deal with conflict."
At about 4 p.m. Sunday, police were investigating another shooting — this time in the 4000 block of Norfolk Ave. in Forest Park. A 27-year-old man was shot multiple times and pronounced dead at a hospital shortly after.
Saturday's shooting began over a dice game, according to Batts. He said it was not yet known what the exact source of the conflict was, but that typically when violence arises over dice games, it is because someone tries to rob a player. Along one side of the trash-strewn street on Saturday night, police placed more than a dozen evidence markers over potential shell casings, with that evidence spread out over a half-block.
A couple of the victims ran a couple of blocks away to flag down police while others took themselves to a hospital after they were shot at about 9:15 p.m. Batts said many of the victims had prior criminal records and at least one of them had survived a previous shooting. Police did not know Saturday night whether the 15-year-old victim was an intended target.
Saturday's shooting had the largest number of victims shot at once since 2009, when a dozen people, including a pregnant woman and a 2-year-old child, were wounded when gunmen opened fire at a backyard cookout in East Baltimore.
In 2012, police saw a different trend, in which gunmen missed their targets less frequently. About 60 percent of those killed in shootings last year were shot in the head, with many of those executions between two warring gangs, police said.
In June, 18-year-old Donyae Jones was killed in a quintuple shooting in East Baltimore's Madison-Eastend neighborhood. Last week, William Monroe and Meaghan Kerrigan were shot and killed in their Pigtown neighborhood home along with Monroe's mother and the mother's friend. And the weekend prior, a 7-year-old boy and two men were shot and injured on the street in the Johnston Square neighborhood.
QuoteSaturday's shooting began over a dice game,
<insert oh-so-witty joke about CdM and wargames here>
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 25, 2013, 08:05:30 PM
QuoteSaturday's shooting began over a dice game,
<insert oh-so-witty joke about CdM and wargames here>
They took off the shrink wrap.
SON OF A
Its still unpunche....OOOF!
QuoteArmed Man Waiting for Raccoon Accidentally Shoots Self While Sneezing: Police
The man was lying in wait with a rifle for a pesky raccoon
Police in Connecticut say an 81-year-old man who was lying in wait with a rifle for a pesky raccoon accidentally shot himself after sneezing and falling from a chair.
New Haven police say James Pace Sr. shot himself in the shin at his home Saturday night. The injury wasn't life-threatening.
Pace told authorities that a raccoon had been scratching at his back door for several days and he was waiting for it with a .22-caliber rifle. Police say he sneezed and fell from his chair, then realized he had accidentally shot himself.
Pace's son drove him to Yale-New Haven Hospital.
Police detectives seized the rifle and are investigating the incident.
MAH KLEENEX
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 27, 2013, 06:42:04 AM
QuoteArmed Man Waiting for Raccoon Accidentally Shoots Self While Sneezing: Police
The man was lying in wait with a rifle for a pesky raccoon
Police in Connecticut say an 81-year-old man who was lying in wait with a rifle for a pesky raccoon accidentally shot himself after sneezing and falling from a chair.
New Haven police say James Pace Sr. shot himself in the shin at his home Saturday night. The injury wasn't life-threatening.
Pace told authorities that a raccoon had been scratching at his back door for several days and he was waiting for it with a .22-caliber rifle. Police say he sneezed and fell from his chair, then realized he had accidentally shot himself.
Pace's son drove him to Yale-New Haven Hospital.
Police detectives seized the rifle and are investigating the incident.
MAH KLEENEX
How the fuck do you accidentally shoot yourself in the leg while holding a rifle?
I'm guessing his story is bullshit. :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 09:13:20 AM
How the fuck do you accidentally shoot yourself in the leg while holding a rifle?
I'm guessing his story is bullshit. :lol:
I can see it happening-- he's old and probably has bad trigger discipline.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2013, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 09:13:20 AM
How the fuck do you accidentally shoot yourself in the leg while holding a rifle?
I'm guessing his story is bullshit. :lol:
I can see it happening-- he's old and probably has bad trigger discipline.
I mean physically. If you are holding the rifle, sitting in a chair, the barrel is poking out in front of you, or to the side if you are holding it in your lap, finger on trigger. Even if you fall down, it is hard to see how you could fall in such a way as to have the barrel pointing at your leg, with your finger still on the trigger.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:25:02 AM
I mean physically. If you are holding the rifle, sitting in a chair, the barrel is poking out in front of you, or to the side if you are holding it in your lap, finger on trigger. Even if you fall down, it is hard to see how you could fall in such a way as to have the barrel pointing at your leg, with your finger still on the trigger.
You wouldn't hold a rifle like that. I wouldn't hold a rifle like that. But I can imagine Paps sitting there with the rifle in his lap and his legs stretched out, to where the muzzle is either pointing at his shin or moves in that direction when he sneezes. Unless maybe his legs are really, really short or the rifle is really, really long.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2013, 10:29:37 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:25:02 AM
I mean physically. If you are holding the rifle, sitting in a chair, the barrel is poking out in front of you, or to the side if you are holding it in your lap, finger on trigger. Even if you fall down, it is hard to see how you could fall in such a way as to have the barrel pointing at your leg, with your finger still on the trigger.
You wouldn't hold a rifle like that. I wouldn't hold a rifle like that. But I can imagine Paps sitting there with the rifle in his lap and his legs stretched out, to where the muzzle is either pointing at his shin or moves in that direction when he sneezes. Unless maybe his legs are really, really short or the rifle is really, really long.
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be
across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 09:13:20 AM
How the fuck do you accidentally shoot yourself in the leg while holding a rifle?
Easy. A gun is involved.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
You're over-thinking this.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
:lol:
I know of at least one kid who did it in high school. Damn near shot his foot off. It can certainly be done, and yeah, usually not by someone very bright.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
You're over-thinking this.
:yes: I'm all for thinking things through, but this is one of those cases where you should just try it and see.
I'd figure out a way to do it. :cool:
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
:lol:
I know of at least one kid who did it in high school. Damn near shot his foot off. It can certainly be done, and yeah, usually not by someone very bright.
"Foot" does not equal "leg".
Quote from: DGuller on August 27, 2013, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
You're over-thinking this.
:yes: I'm all for thinking things through, but this is one of those cases where you should just try it and see.
You first. :contract:
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Try it with a stick the length of a rifle. There is literally no reasonable position you can be in where the muzzle of the rifle points to your leg while your finger is on the trigger. You have to tip the butt *up* a lot, which you can do deliberately but is hard to see how you could possibly do by accident.
Unless the guy is holding it one-handed and pointing at one's leg, but that's a pretty unnatural way to hold it - lots of strain on the wrist. If one was reclining, the obvious way to rest the gun would be across one's legs, making it very difficult to shoot oneself *in* the leg.
My guess is that dad was shot in an accident or dispute involving other people (most likely the son that drove him to the hospital) and is covering up for them.
You're over-thinking this.
I'm just pointing out his "accident" sounds real suspicious.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 12:55:33 PM
"Foot" does not equal "leg".
The guy shot himself in the shin. I'm guessing he was a few inches taller than the kid in school. Not such a stretch, Mal.
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 12:55:33 PM
"Foot" does not equal "leg".
The guy shot himself in the shin. I'm guessing he was a few inches taller than the kid in school. Not such a stretch, Mal.
Try thinking about how it could happen. You are sitting there with a rifle waiting for a raccoon. You fall down. How does the gun muzzle line up with your leg while your finger is on the trigger?
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 12:55:33 PM
"Foot" does not equal "leg".
The guy shot himself in the shin. I'm guessing he was a few inches taller than the kid in school. Not such a stretch, Mal.
Try thinking about how it could happen. You are sitting there with a rifle waiting for a raccoon. You fall down. How does the gun muzzle line up with your leg while your finger is on the trigger?
Sitting down, legs stretched forward, and say you're leaning forward with the stock of the rifle tucked right up underneath your armpit. Muzzle could easily be pointing at your shin. Of course, it's a bad idea to hold the rifle that way, not to mention having your finger on the trigger, but that's how these things happen.
Other things than fingers can pull triggers too.
Guy sits, legs crossed, rifle across his lap. He sneezes, rifle falls off his lap butt first, trigger catches something as the barrel is pointed at his leg.
There are all kinds of plausible scenarios. I'm pretty sure guns have been known to go off just from the shock of hitting something too.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2013, 01:07:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 12:55:33 PM
"Foot" does not equal "leg".
The guy shot himself in the shin. I'm guessing he was a few inches taller than the kid in school. Not such a stretch, Mal.
Try thinking about how it could happen. You are sitting there with a rifle waiting for a raccoon. You fall down. How does the gun muzzle line up with your leg while your finger is on the trigger?
Sitting down, legs stretched forward, and say you're leaning forward with the stock of the rifle tucked right up underneath your armpit. Muzzle could easily be pointing at your shin. Of course, it's a bad idea to hold the rifle that way, not to mention having your finger on the trigger, but that's how these things happen.
Unless you are controrted into a yoga position, this will not work.
Quote from: Maximus on August 27, 2013, 01:14:37 PM
Other things than fingers can pull triggers too.
Guy sits, legs crossed, rifle across his lap. He sneezes, rifle falls off his lap butt first, trigger catches something as the barrel is pointed at his leg.
There are all kinds of plausible scenarios. I'm pretty sure guns have been known to go off just from the shock of hitting something too.
If the rifle is lying across his lap, and falls butt-first, how does the barrel line up with his leg?
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Unless you are controrted into a yoga position, this will not work.
:huh:
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Unless you are controrted into a yoga position, this will not work.
:huh:
Try it with a baseball bat or something else roughly rifle length and see. It is a most improbable position for a man sitting in a chair, particularly for an 80 year old man.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Unless you are controrted into a yoga position, this will not work.
:huh:
Try it with a baseball bat or something else roughly rifle length and see. It is a most improbable position, particularly for an 80 year old man.
I just tried it with a meter stick. One end under my arm, the other pointing down. Boom, no problem.
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Unless you are controrted into a yoga position, this will not work.
:huh:
Try it with a baseball bat or something else roughly rifle length and see. It is a most improbable position, particularly for an 80 year old man.
I just tried it with a meter stick. One end under my arm, the other pointing down. Boom, no problem.
... while you were holding it with your finger on the "trigger"? That's necessary for it to go "boom".
:mellow:
Yes.
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 01:50:16 PM
:mellow:
Yes.
All I can say is, your experience is different from mine.
:mellow:
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:22:16 PM
If the rifle is lying across his lap, and falls butt-first, how does the barrel line up with his leg?
Any of a number of ways. Shall I draw you a picture?
To get this back on track, I'm looking at this:
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html
Either in .357 or .38+p
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2013, 12:55:33 PM
"Foot" does not equal "leg".
The guy shot himself in the shin. I'm guessing he was a few inches taller than the kid in school. Not such a stretch, Mal.
Try thinking about how it could happen. You are sitting there with a rifle waiting for a raccoon. You fall down. How does the gun muzzle line up with your leg while your finger is on the trigger?
Actually, I am trying to imagine how I wouldn't hit my leg... Its a fairly long target. :D
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 27, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
To get this back on track, I'm looking at this:
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html
Either in .357 or .38+p
The "+P" stands for pussy. Don't be That Guy.
:lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 27, 2013, 05:31:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 27, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
To get this back on track, I'm looking at this:
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html
Either in .357 or .38+p
The "+P" stands for pussy. Don't be That Guy.
Get the .357 Mag and you can shoot the .38 Specials in it also. You know you can load .38 Specials in a 357 Mag dont you?
Quote from: 11B4V on August 28, 2013, 12:25:01 AM
The "+P" stands for pussy. Don't be That Guy.
Get the .357 Mag and you can shoot the .38 Specials in it also. You know you can load .38 Specials in a 357 Mag dont you?[/quote]
By all means, go ahead and use +P ammo on a regular basis in a .357.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2013, 12:54:56 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 28, 2013, 12:25:01 AM
The "+P" stands for pussy. Don't be That Guy.
Get the .357 Mag and you can shoot the .38 Specials in it also. You know you can load .38 Specials in a 357 Mag dont you?
By all means, go ahead and use +P ammo on a regular basis in a .357.
[/quote]
You know what +P really is dont you?
and yes, you can fire 38 Special +P in a revovler made for .357 Mag.
I'll just use the Colt Python for magnum use.
And stick with my dad's old police .38.
Quote from: 11B4V on August 28, 2013, 03:21:14 AM
and yes, you can fire 38 Special +P in a revovler made for .357 Mag.
Not if you want to be scrubbing the cylinders all goddamned day.
You want to fire +P loads in that little revolver Ed linked, fine. I'll stick to wadcutters.
And I'm too anal (HA!) to mix rounds. Magnum rounds into the magnum, 38 rounds into the .38.
I should count and number all my rounds....
Meh, it's cheaper to shoot .38 wadcutters at the range than Golden Sabers if you're going to go spend a day at the range. But for those little revolvers, those +P loads could cause problems with the cylinder.
Want to load them in a .357, do it with a larger frame revolver. If it was good enough advice from the armorer, it's good enough for me.
Get yourself a .44 Bulldog instead. The whole point of home self defense is to make sure your target doesn't get back up to testify.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2013, 03:50:39 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 28, 2013, 03:21:14 AM
and yes, you can fire 38 Special +P in a revovler made for .357 Mag.
Not if you want to be scrubbing the cylinders all goddamned day.
You want to fire +P loads in that little revolver Ed linked, fine. I'll stick to wadcutters.
Hey, Phil Sheridan, we advance from black powder nowadays. Welcome to the 21st century.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2013, 04:02:07 AM
Want to load them in a .357, do it with a larger frame revolver. If it was good enough advice from the armorer, it's good enough for me.
and brass framed revolvers.
Quote from: 11B4V on August 28, 2013, 04:07:50 AM
Hey, Phil Sheridan, we advance from black powder nowadays. Welcome to the 21st century.
Eat me and my wadding.
Ed, get the .357 unless you got little girl wrists.
FYI, that 357 snub will bounce just a little, even loaded with 38 Special +P. Not as much though. :lmfao:
Twins are just going to melt it with their minds anyway.
I've never measured my wrists!
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps
That's President Goofball to you mister.
Wow. I'm not even sure what to say about this. :mellow:
QuoteA 107-year-old man was killed in a shootout with police, after he held two people at gunpoint in the US state of Arkansas, authorities said.
Officers were called to a home in the city of Pine Bluff following reports that the man, named as Monroe Isadore, was threatening the two with a gun.
The pair were brought to safety before police tried to arrest the suspect, who was locked inside a bedroom.
Officers shot Isadore when he opened fire on them as they entered the room.
No police were injured in the incident.
Officials said they had tried to negotiate with Isadore but were forced to call reinforcements after he shot at them through the closed bedroom door.
They then released gas into the room and tried to open the door. The suspect began shooting and officers returned fire, killing him.
The coroner later confirmed Isadore's age.
107 years old? Why the fuck not.
I heard the story on the radio but figured they fucked up the age or I heard it wrong. 107-- wow.
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps)
I would think a Carcano bolt action would be sufficient for your purposes.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2013, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps)
I would think a Carcano bolt action would be sufficient for your purposes.
:pinch:
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2013, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps)
I would think a Carcano bolt action would be sufficient for your purposes.
:rolleyes: You're closer to being a commie than I am.
Quote from: derspiess on September 09, 2013, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2013, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps)
I would think a Carcano bolt action would be sufficient for your purposes.
:rolleyes: You're closer to being a commie than I am.
I really think that boys speak a different language.
Fix me a sandwich.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 09, 2013, 11:48:25 AM
Fix me a sandwich.
Okay. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriouseats.com%2Fimages%2Frawherringsammich.jpg&hash=f8612aa78f740774766d3214d8afc62caa59cb5f)
It's no Triple Stacker, but it'll do. :mmm:
Gross.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57601945/iowa-law-allows-gun-permits-for-the-blind/
QuoteIowa law allows gun permits for the blind
Iowa law enforcement officials are debating the wisdom of granting gun permits to blind people.
The Des Moines Register reports that Iowa law doesn't allow sheriffs to deny a permit to carry a gun in public based on physical ability.
Some sheriffs have been granting gun permits to people with visual impairments while others have been denying them. Blind people and other Iowans can obtain the permits for carrying a weapon in public because of changes to state law that took effect in 2011.
Jane Hudson with Disability Rights Iowa said keeping legally blind people from obtaining weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Some other states, including Nebraska, require anyone applying for a gun permit to provide proof of their visual ability by supplying a driver's license or doctor's statement.
Hudson said she thinks someone could successfully challenge Nebraska's vision restriction because federal law requires states to analyze a situation individually before denying a service.
"The fact that you can't drive a car doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and see a target," Hudson said.
Polk County officials said they have issued weapons permits to people who can't drive legally because of vision problems at least three times. Sheriffs in Jasper, Kossuth and Delaware counties say they've also granted permits to Iowans with severe visual impairments.
"It seems a little strange, but the way the law reads, we can't deny them (a permit) just based on that one thing," said Sgt. Jana Abens, a spokeswoman for the Polk County sheriff's office, referring to a visual disability.
It's not clear how many people with visual impairments have permits to carry weapons in Iowa because no one collects that information.
Delaware County Sheriff John LeClere questioned whether visually-impaired people should be able to obtain these weapons permits.
"At what point do vision problems have a detrimental effect to fire a firearm? If you see nothing but a blurry mass in front of you, then I would say you probably shouldn't be shooting something," LeClere said.
Even Patrick Clancy, superintendent of the Iowa Braille and Sight Saving School, said guns may be a rare exception to his philosophy.
"Although people who are blind can participate fully in nearly all life's experiences, there are some things, like the operation of a weapon, that may very well be an exception," Clancy said.
But in Cedar County, blind people would find a welcoming audience if they applied for a weapons permit. Sheriff Warren Wethington has a legally blind daughter who is 19, and she plans to apply for a permit when she's eligible at 21.
"If sheriffs spent more time trying to keep guns out of criminals' hands and not people with disabilities, their time would be more productive," Wethington said.
A blind person has the right to defend self and property ... by firing wildly in all directions. :D
Quote from: merithyn on September 09, 2013, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 09, 2013, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2013, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps)
I would think a Carcano bolt action would be sufficient for your purposes.
:rolleyes: You're closer to being a commie than I am.
I really think that boys speak a different language.
A Carcano bolt action is an Italian rifle. One such model was used to assassinate JFK. Lee Harvey Oswald was a communist. It's not a boy thing, it's a history thing.
Quote from: derspiess on September 09, 2013, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2013, 07:50:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
Goofball is determined to keep me from getting my hands on an M1 Garand :angry:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps)
I would think a Carcano bolt action would be sufficient for your purposes.
:rolleyes: You're closer to being a commie than I am.
I would say that you're both about equal in terms of danger to assassinate the current president. On the one hand, Raz likes Obama, but is incapable of telling fantasy from reality. On the other hand, you don't like your president, but are also capable of functioning in society.
Still, neither of you should be allowed to own a gun.
I have no hatred in my heart for Barack Obama, and would be saddened to see him physically harmed. Politics aside, he seems like a decent enough guy.
Quote from: derspiess on September 09, 2013, 07:32:18 PM
I have no hatred in my heart for Barack Obama, and would be saddened to see him physically harmed. Politics aside, he seems like a decent enough guy.
Really? I think he seems like a bit of a dick. Then again, I think that you need to be an egomaniac or somehow damaged to run for US President.
Quote from: Neil on September 09, 2013, 07:35:49 PM
Really? I think he seems like a bit of a dick. Then again, I think that you need to be an egomaniac or somehow damaged to run for US President.
Can't argue with either point. But I like to think you can separate the politician from his politics and sometimes end up with a decent guy. I thought of Clinton similarly-- I thought he was a dick as a public figure, but he'd have been an awesome dude to hang out with-- go play a round of golf, catch a baseball game, throw back a few beers, chase skirts, etc.
See, whereas I always thought that Clinton was kind of the exception to the rule, and that he was relatively sane and healthy. Sure he was a ambitious and competitive, but he seemed like a relatively normal guy who just kept moving up the ladder.
Quote from: Neil on September 09, 2013, 07:18:27 PM
I would say that you're both about equal in terms of danger to assassinate the current president. On the one hand, Raz likes Obama, but is incapable of telling fantasy from reality. On the other hand, you don't like your president, but are also capable of functioning in society.
Still, neither of you should be allowed to own a gun.
Difference is, Raz knows he's not supposed to have a gun. :lol:
But by all means people, keep giving the Secret Squirrels a reason to swarm over Languish like somebody that just bought two dozen copies of
Catcher In The Rye with all this talk.
Mrs. vM is just going to love how they take away all her Tupperware when they seize the server.
I'm a trained, qualified, and responsible gun owner & a federally licensed collector -_-
Yeah, I remember when they used to give those FFLs away in Cracker Jack boxes. I got the compass.
I take naked selfies with my guns
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2013, 08:08:51 PM
Yeah, I remember when they used to give those FFLs away in Cracker Jack boxes. I got the compass.
If nothing else, the application process by its very nature screens out the paranoid nutters :D
Just for you guys. Deploy Bangladeshi peacekeepers to derspiess' house immediately.
QuoteAmerican gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?
The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war
Henry Porter
The Observer, Saturday 21 September 2013 17.12 EDT
Last week, Starbucks asked its American customers to please not bring their guns into the coffee shop. This is part of the company's concern about customer safety and follows a ban in the summer on smoking within 25 feet of a coffee shop entrance and an earlier ruling about scalding hot coffee. After the celebrated Liebeck v McDonald's case in 1994, involving a woman who suffered third-degree burns to her thighs, Starbucks complies with the Specialty Coffee Association of America's recommendation that drinks should be served at a maximum temperature of 82C.
Although it was brave of Howard Schultz, the company's chief executive, to go even this far in a country where people are better armed and only slightly less nervy than rebel fighters in Syria, we should note that dealing with the risks of scalding and secondary smoke came well before addressing the problem of people who go armed to buy a latte. There can be no weirder order of priorities on this planet.
That's America, we say, as news of the latest massacre breaks – last week it was the slaughter of 12 people by Aaron Alexis at Washington DC's navy yard – and move on. But what if we no longer thought of this as just a problem for America and, instead, viewed it as an international humanitarian crisis – a quasi civil war, if you like, that calls for outside intervention? As citizens of the world, perhaps we should demand an end to the unimaginable suffering of victims and their families – the maiming and killing of children – just as America does in every new civil conflict around the globe.
The annual toll from firearms in the US is running at 32,000 deaths and climbing, even though the general crime rate is on a downward path (it is 40% lower than in 1980). If this perennial slaughter doesn't qualify for intercession by the UN and all relevant NGOs, it is hard to know what does.
To absorb the scale of the mayhem, it's worth trying to guess the death toll of all the wars in American history since the War of Independence began in 1775, and follow that by estimating the number killed by firearms in the US since the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot in 1968 by a .22 Iver-Johnson handgun, wielded by Sirhan Sirhan. The figures from Congressional Research Service, plus recent statistics from icasualties.org, tell us that from the first casualties in the battle of Lexington to recent operations in Afghanistan, the toll is 1,171,177. By contrast, the number killed by firearms, including suicides, since 1968, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI, is 1,384,171.
That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.
Everywhere you look in America, people are trying to make life safer. On roads, for example, there has been a huge effort in the past 50 years to enforce speed limits, crack down on drink/drug driving and build safety features into highways, as well as vehicles. The result is a steadily improving record; by 2015, forecasters predict that for first time road deaths will be fewer than those caused by firearms (32,036 to 32,929).
Plainly, there's no equivalent effort in the area of privately owned firearms. Indeed, most politicians do everything they can to make the country less safe. Recently, a Democrat senator from Arkansas named Mark Pryor ran a TV ad against the gun-control campaign funded by NY mayor Michael Bloomberg – one of the few politicians to stand up to the NRA lobby – explaining why he was against enhanced background checks on gun owners yet was committed to "finding real solutions to violence".
About their own safety, Americans often have an unusual ability to hold two utterly opposed ideas in their heads simultaneously. That can only explain the past decade in which the fear of terror has cost the country hundreds of billions of dollars in wars, surveillance and intelligence programmes and homeland security. Ten years after 9/11, homeland security spending doubled to $69bn . The total bill since the attacks is more than $649bn.
One more figure. There have been fewer than 20 terror-related deaths on American soil since 9/11 and about 364,000 deaths caused by privately owned firearms. If any European nation had such a record and persisted in addressing only the first figure, while ignoring the second, you can bet your last pound that the State Department would be warning against travel to that country and no American would set foot in it without body armour.
But no nation sees itself as outsiders do. Half the country is sane and rational while the other half simply doesn't grasp the inconsistencies and historic lunacy of its position, which springs from the second amendment right to keep and bear arms, and is derived from English common law and our 1689 Bill of Rights. We dispensed with these rights long ago, but American gun owners cleave to them with the tenacity that previous generations fought to continue slavery. Astonishingly, when owning a gun is not about ludicrous macho fantasy, it is mostly seen as a matter of personal safety, like the airbag in the new Ford pick-up or avoiding secondary smoke, despite conclusive evidence that people become less safe as gun ownership rises.
Last week, I happened to be in New York for the 9/11 anniversary: it occurs to me now that the city that suffered most dreadfully in the attacks and has the greatest reason for jumpiness is also among the places where you find most sense on the gun issue in America. New Yorkers understand that fear breeds peril and, regardless of tragedies such as Sandy Hook and the DC naval yard, the NRA, the gun manufacturers, conservative-inclined politicians and parts of the media will continue to advocate a right, which, at base, is as archaic as a witch trial.
Talking to American friends, I always sense a kind of despair that the gun lobby is too powerful to challenge and that nothing will ever change. The same resignation was evident in President Obama's rather lifeless reaction to the Washington shooting last week. There is absolutely nothing he can do, which underscores the fact that America is in a jam and that international pressure may be one way of reducing the slaughter over the next generation. This has reached the point where it has ceased to be a domestic issue. The world cannot stand idly by.
Quote from: derspiess on September 09, 2013, 07:43:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 09, 2013, 07:35:49 PM
Really? I think he seems like a bit of a dick. Then again, I think that you need to be an egomaniac or somehow damaged to run for US President.
Can't argue with either point. But I like to think you can separate the politician from his politics and sometimes end up with a decent guy. I thought of Clinton similarly-- I thought he was a dick as a public figure, but he'd have been an awesome dude to hang out with-- go play a round of golf, catch a baseball game, throw back a few beers, chase skirts, etc.
Yeah, I always figured that Clinton would be a great guy to have over to your house to have a couple beers with while watching a ball game on the TV. You'd just need to be sure to hide your wife, daughters, and mother while he was around. And probably any female pets, just to be on the safe side.
I read an interesting comment the other day. No, the U.S. is not a more violent place than Canada, Australia, or most Western Democracies.
However, the prevalence of guns changes the outcome of a lot of the violence, increasing the death toll by multitudes.
Thank you Seedy, I needed a laugh this morning. :lmfao:
QuoteMarylanders flock to buy guns at rate of 1,000 a day
Surge comes in advance of new gun control law
By Erin Cox, The Baltimore Sun
9:08 p.m. EDT, September 23, 2013
Marylanders have been rushing to buy guns at a rate of 1,000 a day over the past two weeks, hastening the pace of an unprecedented surge in gun sales.
More than 102,000 gun purchase applications have been submitted so far this year — twice the number for all of 2011, state police said Monday.
"It's like Prohibition," said Rick Kain, a gun owner from Howard County. "People want to get their guns before the law takes effect."
Maryland's tough new gun control law takes effect next week, banning the sale of assault-style rifles and requiring fingerprints and a license to buy a handgun. This month, a swarm of requests hit the Maryland State Police background check system at a pace roughly seven times that during the same time last year.
State Sen. Nancy Jacobs, a Harford County Republican, has bought two more handguns this year — one with an extended magazine. She said she understands why her constituents are making a last-minute rush to avoid complying with the law's new requirements.
"It's going to make it so much more difficult for law-abiding citizens to get firearms without jumping through a million hoops," Jacobs said. "Everyone's trying to get their guns."
Among the crowd is Daniel Brantley, a child care provider from Aberdeen. He said he and his wife have bought six guns in the past month and a half, including a "family of Glocks," an AR-15 and accessories.
"Everything that's been banned, we've been buying," said Brantley, who attended a rally Monday in Annapolis to protest the new law. "Now the window of opportunity is closing."
The spike in sales — and resulting backlog of background checks — has put guns at least temporarily into the hands of people whose criminal records barred them from owning firearms and has complicated efforts to implement the new law.
Demand for guns overwhelmed the state's background check system months ago, leading half of the state's 314 dealers to release weapons to buyers without waiting for them to be checked out. Under state law, gun dealers must wait only seven days to release a firearm, but background checks have taken two months or more. All told, dealers have released 45 guns to 40 people prohibited from having them. State police said they have recovered them all.
Two weeks ago, Gov. Martin O'Malley pledged all the resources necessary to help plow through that backlog of background checks before the new law takes effect Oct. 1. But the onslaught of purchase applications has virtually wiped out the progress made by an all-hands-on-deck effort launched earlier this month.
When the state deployed a team of data entry workers and reassigned law enforcement officers to help with investigations, the backlog of background checks stood at 38,000. Now it is at 49,745 applications, according to Maryland State Police spokesman Greg Shipley.
Shipley said the goal remains to clear the backlog by next week, but it "admittedly has become even more challenging."
Unless the backlog is cleared, buyers who pick up handguns after Sept. 30 will have to get a license — a process that takes a month and requires a $50 fee and turning in fingerprints to law enforcement.
While the new law bans the sale of 45 different types of assault weapons, it allows dealers to sell their existing inventory of assault-style rifles after Sept. 30 so long as there is a valid order placed before then.
"It's a mad rush," said Pasadena Pawn and Gun store owner Frank Loane Sr. "People are nervous they're not going to be able to get something."
At Loane's store in Pasadena, he has sold out of the AR-15 — the nation's most popular assault-style rifle, and the same type of gun used in the December mass shooting at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school that prompted a call for tougher gun laws in Maryland.
Loane said he's also sold about 250 pistols within the past few weeks.
Meanwhile, a senior O'Malley aide said the administration plans to continue redeploying state resources to work on the backlog until it is resolved.
A top union official for the Maryland Transportation Authority Police complained Monday that reassigning 15 of the authority's officers to do background checks has diminished the force's ability to safeguard such places as BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport and the port of Baltimore.
"It starts to become a safety factor," said Shane Schapiro, the union's president. He said officers are overworked and unable to take time off. "Officers were told that they could be there up to a year doing all this gun paperwork that the state police is so behind on."
Maryland State Police consult 16 databases to complete a gun background check, a standard tougher than federal law. While Maryland prohibits people without a collector's license from purchasing more than one gun per month, there is not a prohibition on applying to buy more than that, said Shipley, the state police spokesman.
About 420,500 people own regulated firearms in Maryland, according to the state's last count in March, Shipley said.
John "Travis" Kijowski of Hagerstown picked up two additional handguns since state lawmakers started discussing tougher gun laws earlier this year. He said he finds it unfair to give police his fingerprints when gun ownership is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and he's never done anything to suggest he's an irresponsible gun owner.
"If people were asked to give fingerprints to vote, imagine the outrage," Kijowski said. "We're not a bunch of nuts. We're regular people — people who just want to be left alone."
Advocates of the new law — which also aims to keep guns away from people deemed dangerously mentally ill — dismissed the hustle to buy guns.
Vincent DeMarco, president of Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence, said the licensing provision is designed to deter so-called straw purchasers from buying a gun on behalf of someone who isn't allowed to own it. Other states with such laws, such as New Jersey, have lower rates of gun deaths.
"October 1 is almost here, and Maryland will be a much safer place," DeMarco said. "The guns that are a problem are the ones that they buy for criminals. All we can do as a society is to enact the most effective tools to prevent gun violence, and that's what we've done."
Baltimore Sun reporters Kevin Rector and Luke Broadwater contributed to this article.
Best comment from the message board:
QuoteI need a gun just to defend myself against all these nuts buying guns.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2013, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 09, 2013, 07:18:27 PM
I would say that you're both about equal in terms of danger to assassinate the current president. On the one hand, Raz likes Obama, but is incapable of telling fantasy from reality. On the other hand, you don't like your president, but are also capable of functioning in society.
Still, neither of you should be allowed to own a gun.
Difference is, Raz knows he's not supposed to have a gun. :lol:
But by all means people, keep giving the Secret Squirrels a reason to swarm over Languish like somebody that just bought two dozen copies of Catcher In The Rye with all this talk.
Mrs. vM is just going to love how they take away all her Tupperware when they seize the server.
Yeah, I do. I gave up the one I found.
New synthetic stock is in for the M70. Now I just need to glass bed the action.
(https://sites.google.com/site/8mmmauserreloading/_/rsrc/1380050108140/home/link-area/P1010144.jpg)
I had a dream last night I was in a high power rifle competition and was doing great until the last round, where my hands were shaking like crazy.
Thinking about a couple of these:
http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-minibolt.cfm
The Kampfgruppe is forming.....
OMG A RIFLE MADE FOR KIDS YOU ARE A MONSTER
I just wish they came in pink. I'm sure they can put some My Little Pony stickers on the stock.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2013, 08:54:15 AM
I just wish they came in pink. I'm sure they can put some My Little Pony stickers on the stock.
I'm sure 11B's gunsmith can hook you up with a pink stock.
Quote from: derspiess on October 04, 2013, 08:58:03 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2013, 08:54:15 AM
I just wish they came in pink. I'm sure they can put some My Little Pony stickers on the stock.
I'm sure 11B's gunsmith can hook you up with a pink stock.
no problemo. I can even glass the action and float the barrel for you Ed.
Glas....wtf. They are single shot kids rifles. :lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
Glas....wtf. They are single shot kids rifles. :lol:
So, doesnt matter. It will help accuracy. ;)
I fact I just glassed the M700 action back in Setember.
Here's an example.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_2F9GjteSXhE%2FTLStI6HrmdI%2FAAAAAAAAACM%2FwGMJlZOw-GA%2Fs1600%2FGlassbed.JPG&hash=dda94cd57efa44c2e7190877516182dd83dfa7eb)
Reconnoitering the deer hunting area on Tues. Rained hard as hell the night before and finally quit around 0930 when I started reconnoitering. Sun came out, which is perfect time for the deer to start moving. Found a little rectangular area about about 500 meters long by 250 mteres wide oriented east to west. It's bordered to the north by a small ridge and some R&R tracks to the south. There is a shallow spur at the east end, coming off the ridgeline, which kind of encapsulaties this low area. Picked up on one the the trails just below the crest of the ridgeline and running parallel to it. Started slowly walking along it. Trails everywhere, virtual deer highways criss crossing the entire area. After about 150 or so meters I stopped and just observed the area silently. After about 10 minutes, I saw a fairly good size blacktail doe walking on the same trail towards my position. She noticed me about 30 meters out, stopped and just stood there looking at me. She causually turned and walked back the way she came. Located a few good treestand loactions and called it a day. Next days off I'll try to drop a trail cam in the area.
Well done. Relocating after being spotted is crucial.
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2013, 08:22:02 PM
Well done. Relocating after being spotted is crucial.
:lol:
Black Tail deer are a wily breed. A sub-species of the Mule Deer. They are the hardest deer to hunt. Unpredictable in their habits, unlike the Mule and White tail deer, which are easier to hunt.
This is the first year hunting from a treestand in washington state. It is pretty much the standard in the southeast US when I was there. But I have a habit of taking good long naps in a treestand. :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffunnyfilez.funnypart.com%2Fpictures%2FFunnyPart-com-fell_asleep_while_hunting.jpg&hash=0c47549c9d1434a0b01d83f2867e85bbb49a0884)
A missed opportunity. :(
Quote from: The Brain on October 05, 2013, 12:51:50 AM
A missed opportunity. :(
Season doesn't start till the 12th.
2011 I was elk hunting down around the St. Helens area. An absolutely beautiful clear November morning. I stopped on the down side of a cross over saddle, sat down on a log and broke out some java. I'm sitting there listening, enjoying the morning and being absolutely silent. After 20 minutes or so, I hear some rustling and commotion coming down the hill. Not enough racket to be an elk. Those fuckers sounds like a freight train when they are at a run through the woods. I finally get eyes on the commotion and it's a good sized doe moving at the double quick down the hill towards me. She spots me about 20-30 meters out, peels off hard left and goes down the other side of the hill into a draw.
Well, hot on her tail (no pun intended), about 30-40 or so meters behind, is a 3 point buck, nose to the ground and not paying attention to shit other than that doe. The dumbshit doesn't see me. I had him dead to rights if it were deer season. When he does spot me, he slams into a full stop no more than 20 feet from me. We look at each other for a good three seconds, long enough for me to say, "You're one lucking sumbitch." He then came to his senses and peeled off down the hill after the doe.
:glare:
Manly.
He was clearly trying to impress you.
It worked.
Quote from: derspiess on October 05, 2013, 10:28:35 AM
He was clearly trying to impress you.
It's what i live for. :lol:
Lots of hunters here got caught in the big snows that hit the eastern side of the state. They had to hunker in motels instead of up in 3 feet of snow in the mountains. I bet there is now a liquor shortage in most of the stores.
Quote from: PDH on October 05, 2013, 08:40:11 PM
Lots of hunters here got caught in the big snows that hit the eastern side of the state. They had to hunker in motels instead of up in 3 feet of snow in the mountains. I bet there is now a liquor shortage in most of the stores.
:lol: Which state if you dont mind me askin?
Quote from: 11B4V on October 05, 2013, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 05, 2013, 08:40:11 PM
Lots of hunters here got caught in the big snows that hit the eastern side of the state. They had to hunker in motels instead of up in 3 feet of snow in the mountains. I bet there is now a liquor shortage in most of the stores.
:lol: Which state if you dont mind me askin?
Wyoming. Up on the Laramie Range they got 3+ feet of snow in all the outfitting spots. The foreigners spent a lot of money to fly in from the East Coast and stay at the Motel 6 in Glenrock, Wyoming.
Quote from: PDH on October 05, 2013, 08:45:01 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 05, 2013, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 05, 2013, 08:40:11 PM
Lots of hunters here got caught in the big snows that hit the eastern side of the state. They had to hunker in motels instead of up in 3 feet of snow in the mountains. I bet there is now a liquor shortage in most of the stores.
:lol: Which state if you dont mind me askin?
Wyoming. Up on the Laramie Range they got 3+ feet of snow in all the outfitting spots. The foreigners spent a lot of money to fly in from the East Coast and stay at the Motel 6 in Glenrock, Wyoming.
Good elk country there.
Quote from: 11B4V on October 05, 2013, 08:52:20 PM
Good elk country there.
I don't hunt myself, but I know plenty folks who do. That means I get steaks and roasts every year (usually the stuff from last year that has been in the deep freeze for 10-11 months).
Quote from: PDH on October 05, 2013, 08:45:01 PM
and stay at the Motel 6 in Glenrock, Wyoming.
Bet those vending machines on the 2nd floor has had the shit worked out of them this week. Only thing left is some Diet Mountain Dew, and maybe a Pay Day bar.
Yum, diet Dew.
I can only drink Dew when it's flat. True story.
Weirdo.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 05, 2013, 09:16:02 PM
I can only drink Dew when it's flat. True story.
Do the dew bitch.
I do it. I just leave the cap off overnight first. :)
So, trying to come up with cold weather outdoor activities, I was thinking maybe I'd take advantage of Vermont's non-existent gun laws and take up target shooting. None of the gun ranges/fish and game clubs here seem to rent out weapons, but they're cheap to join. So I'd have to buy some kind of gun...
Any suggestions on how to get started with this? Any thoughts on pistol vs. rifle in terms of recreational enjoyment? Pistol seems more fun at first glance... I figure a .22 of some sort is the obvious choice since the ammunition is so cheap.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 05, 2013, 09:30:51 PM
So, trying to come up with cold weather outdoor activities, I was thinking maybe I'd take advantage of Vermont's non-existent gun laws and take up target shooting. None of the gun ranges/fish and game clubs here seem to rent out weapons, but they're cheap to join. So I'd have to buy some kind of gun...
Any suggestions on how to get started with this? Any thoughts on pistol vs. rifle in terms of recreational enjoyment? Pistol seems more fun at first glance... I figure a .22 of some sort is the obvious choice since the ammunition is so cheap.
Get you a new or used ruger 10-22 rifle. heel get a 22 pistol too.
So far seen some does. Passed on a couple of spikes, and a fork horn.
Last evening around 6pm I had a spike eating apples in the yard. Seen the same bugger about 10am walking down the gravel road as I was leaving the house. Same chap. Good size for a Black Tail spike.
Quote from: 11B4V on October 15, 2013, 03:42:39 PM
Last evening around 6pm I had a spike eating apples in the yard. Seen the same bugger about 10am walking down the gravel road as I was leaving the house. Same chap. Good size for a Black Tail spike.
There won't be a third time, will there? :cry:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 15, 2013, 06:57:42 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 15, 2013, 03:42:39 PM
Last evening around 6pm I had a spike eating apples in the yard. Seen the same bugger about 10am walking down the gravel road as I was leaving the house. Same chap. Good size for a Black Tail spike.
There won't be a third time, will there? :cry:
If he's on or near my property he's safe. ;)
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 05, 2013, 09:30:51 PM
So, trying to come up with cold weather outdoor activities, I was thinking maybe I'd take advantage of Vermont's non-existent gun laws and take up target shooting. None of the gun ranges/fish and game clubs here seem to rent out weapons, but they're cheap to join. So I'd have to buy some kind of gun...
Any suggestions on how to get started with this? Any thoughts on pistol vs. rifle in terms of recreational enjoyment? Pistol seems more fun at first glance... I figure a .22 of some sort is the obvious choice since the ammunition is so cheap.
I really like my father in law's SIG Mosquito, which is a .22 pistol.
MAH GRIPS
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 15, 2013, 07:27:19 PM
MAH GRIPS
It has boring grips. :( It does however have a threaded barrel. :cool:
I ordered the Henry kid guns. IN ORANGE.
WET THE FRONT SIGHT
OMG GUNZ FOR KIDZ. HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YERSELF
Quote from: derspiess on October 16, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
OMG GUNZ FOR KIDZ. HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YERSELF
They can call children's services if they want. And be laughed at on the phone.
What do ya know, I found a full box of .45 ACP HP's I forgot I had. :D
Yeah, gotta figure out what to do with all this old ammo I found cleaning out the condo. Gun stores, maybe?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2013, 10:05:31 AM
Yeah, gotta figure out what to do with all this old ammo I found cleaning out the condo. Gun stores, maybe?
Monster. Why not sell it instead?
Shoot it. But yeah, some gun stores would probably buy it.
Not too keen on shooting 15 and 20 year old ammo. That sounds like something African rebels or Caliga would do.
MAH HIV
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2013, 11:46:45 AM
Not too keen on shooting 15 and 20 year old ammo. That sounds like something African rebels or Caliga would do.
Is it corroded? If not, quit being a girl.
Best bet would be sell it on kraigslist. A gun store will low ball like no other.
Is the stuff still in the original boxes?
Remember ammo availability still hasnt come back to pre-hysteria levels. I wouldnt want to see you get ripped off.
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2013, 12:05:27 PM
Is it corroded? If not, quit being a girl.
Best bet would be sell it on kraigslist. A gun store will low ball like no other.
Is the stuff still in the original boxes?
Remember ammo availability still hasnt come back to pre-hysteria levels. I wouldnt want to see you get ripped off.
Paranoid Seedy would worry about the ammo getting in the hands of gangbangers. Or worse-- rednecks :o
He'll sell it to a dealer & get screwed.
FWIW I opened another spam can of Bulgarian 7.62x54R a few days ago, dated early 80s. Stuff looks like it was made yesterday :)
Interested in disposing of it, not selling it. Just a shitload of loose rounds I don't want that I found in the bottom of my range bag. Hell, not even sure I bought them. I only buy Remington and Federal.
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2013, 12:10:12 PM
Paranoid Seedy would worry about the ammo getting in the hands of gangbangers. Or worse-- rednecks :o
And you two numbnuts act like they're fetuses. It's only ammo.
No, no gun nuts here.
Well how many rounds are there? You could find someone who reloads and they could pull and re-use the bullets at a minimum. You could probably find someone who will take it off your hands next time you're at the range.
looks like a shitload of .38 wadcutters, and a bunch of 9mm. I think the 9s are Blazer. :yuk:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2013, 07:58:57 PM
looks like a shitload of .38 wadcutters, and a bunch of 9mm. I think the 9s are Blazer. :yuk:
Find someone locally and make some coin. Go buy Gangsta kitty something nice.
She's been supremely annoyed now that she's got to wear a collar and an early-warning/elopement risk bell on orders from Camp Commandant Estelle Costanza. It's pissing her off something fierce, she can't do her Seal Team Sneaks thing.
Good day in gun land. The Big Brown Truck came today. The Winchester came back with a new barrel.
(https://sites.google.com/site/8mmmauserreloading/_/rsrc/1382079459167/8x57mm-winchester-m70-featherweight-classic/11.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/8mmmauserreloading/_/rsrc/1382079537002/8x57mm-winchester-m70-featherweight-classic/P1010008.JPG)
;)
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2013, 10:16:46 AM
Shoot it. But yeah, some gun stores would probably buy it.
You have to be a good shot hit a bullet with another bullet.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2013, 07:12:05 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2013, 10:16:46 AM
Shoot it. But yeah, some gun stores would probably buy it.
You have to be a good shot hit a bullet with another bullet.
Nah, just takes a few tries.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2013, 07:12:05 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 17, 2013, 10:16:46 AM
Shoot it. But yeah, some gun stores would probably buy it.
You have to be a good shot hit a bullet with another bullet.
Not if you drop the bullet down the barrel. :)
Sneaked it into the Costanza's garage, despite being told not to. Mislabeled the box as "BUWWETS" so Mom can't figure out what's in it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2013, 06:18:20 PM
Sneaked it into the Costanza's garage, despite being told not to. Mislabeled the box as "BUWWETS" so Mom can't figure out what's in it.
Mental picure: CdM writing that label while wearing his bunny suit. :D
Oh, what a wascally wabbit!
Quote from: Malthus on October 20, 2013, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2013, 06:18:20 PM
Sneaked it into the Costanza's garage, despite being told not to. Mislabeled the box as "BUWWETS" so Mom can't figure out what's in it.
Mental picure: CdM writing that label while wearing his bunny suit. :D
Oh, what a wascally wabbit!
:lol:
Here's the spike that hangs out around my property. Apples for breakfast.
(https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1375262_10202094890644992_1561207205_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391775_10202094893525064_599830037_n.jpg)
Shoot it. Castle doctrine.
QuoteFather charged after 2-year-old fatally shoots herself
(CNN) -- A 2-year-old girl fatally shot herself in Fayetteville, North Carolina, over the weekend, and the toddler's father faces involuntary manslaughter charges, police said.
Melvin Andre Clark Jr., 19, who was arrested Sunday, also was charged with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, Fayetteville police spokesman Lt. Todd Joyce said.
The girl, Samarri Tyana Beauford, was playing in the living room of the home where she lived with her aunt and grandmother Saturday when she found a loaded .22-caliber pistol that police say Clark had left under the couch, Joyce said.
Joyce would not comment on where the toddler shot herself but said, "A child that small, they don't have the strength to pull a trigger with their index finger, but they are strong enough to use pressure from their two thumbs.
"Typically, they'll be looking at the weapon when these things happen."
The toddler was taken about 12:30 p.m. to Cape Fear Valley Medical Center, where she died, CNN affiliate WRAL reported. No one else was injured, the station said.
Clark was being held in the Cumberland County Detention Center on a $50,000 secured bond, Joyce said.
He appeared in court Monday, and his case was continued until November 7, according to the county clerk's office. No attorney was had been assigned to his case.
Police pursued the involuntary manslaughter charge because Samarri was killed in a "reckless or careless manner" or via a "heedless indifference" to the safety of others, Joyce said.
Several outstanding warrants were found when police ran Clark's name, including misdemeanor cruelty to animals, larceny and marijuana possession charges, police said, and Clark had been sentenced on convictions of breaking and entering, larceny and possession of a firearm by a minor.
This is at least the third instance since June of a child dying from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
In New Orleans, a 5-year-old girl died June 23 after she came "into contact with a .38-caliber revolver and accidentally shot herself in the head" while her mother was at a store, police said.
The girl's mother was charged with cruelty to a juvenile until the 5-year-old died, at which point prosecutors added a second-degree murder charge. A judge in the case threw out the murder indictment last month, and the district attorney's office said it would appeal the decision, CNN affiliate WDSU reported.
In August, a 3-year-old boy in Dundee, Michigan, found a .40-caliber handgun belonging to a family friend on a closet floor in his home. He died after accidentally shooting himself in the head, police said. The family friend was charged with careless discharge of a weapon, a misdemeanor.
Less than two weeks ago, 2-year-old Michael Garcia Jr. was taken to a hospital after shooting himself in the legs with a .45-caliber handgun registered to his mother, according to CNN affiliate WFTV. The boy's injuries were not life-threatening, and the boy's father was charged with child neglect, the station reported.
According to the CDC's National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 703 children under the age of 15 died in accidental firearms deaths between 2001 and 2010, the latest year for which the agency's statistics on fatalities are available.
During the same period, 7,766 children under the age of 14 suffered accidental firearm injuries -- about one injury for every million children.
Quote5-year-old Texas boy accidentally kills himself with napping babysitter's gun
By M. Alex Johnson, Staff Writer, NBC News
Melissa Ann Ringhardt, 19, of Vidor, Texas, was charged with abandoning or endangering a child after 5-year-old John Read shot and killed himself with her gun Monday, authorities said.
A teenage babysitter was arrested Tuesday and charged in the death of a 5-year-old Texas boy who accidentally shot himself with the babysitter's gun while she was napping, authorities said.
Melissa Ann Ringhardt, 19, of Vidor was being held in the Orange County Jail on a felony charge of abandoning or endangering a child, the county sheriff's office said in a statement. She could face a sentence of six months to two years if convicted.
The sheriff's office said Ringhardt, who lives with the boy's family, left her semiautomatic .40-caliber handgun on a coffee table when she went into a bedroom to take a nap Monday afternoon. When she woke up, she couldn't immediately find the boy, identified as John Read, according to the sheriff's office. She eventually discovered him dead in the living room, it said.
Because the home has no telephone, Ringhardt carried John and a 6-month-old child, whom she was also watching and who wasn't identified, about a block to his grandparents' home to call 911, the sheriff's office said. John was declared dead there when emergency crews arrived.
The 6-month-old child wasn't injured.
Ringhardt told investigators she had the gun because she was frightened of being home alone, according to NBC affiliate KBMT K-JAC.
"People have the right to bear arms, and with that comes great responsibility," Orange County sheriff's Chief Deputy Clint Hodgkinson told KFDM-TV of Beaumont. "If someone, somehow, puts a firearm in a place where a child is able to get that weapon, you've committed an offense."
"Sometimes, it takes something like this — as tragic as it is — for people to reflect on those things, and these are the opportunities you take ... to say, 'Look, what could we have done?'" Hodgkinson said.
What is it with teen criminals and guns? Why can't they act responsibly?
NRA Calls For Teachers To Keep Loaded Gun Pointed At Class For Entire School Day (http://www.theonion.com/articles/nra-calls-for-teachers-to-keep-loaded-gun-pointed,34336/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default)
QuoteFAIRFAX, VA—In the wake of Monday's tragic Nevada school shooting in which a 12-year-old student killed a teacher and wounded two classmates, representatives from the National Rifle Association pushed for all teachers around the country to keep a loaded gun pointed at their classes throughout the school day. "The only way to ensure safety in our schools is to make sure teachers hold fully loaded firearms at students from the moment they walk into the classroom until the moment they leave," said NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, explaining that educators should, at the very least, point one 9mm semiautomatic pistol at the class while also keeping a concealed .357 magnum revolver and several spare cartridges of ammo nearby at all times. "If teachers need to write on the board or turn the page of a textbook, they should always use their free hand while keeping the gun at face level of all students and holding one finger firmly on the trigger. Frankly, this is just common sense if we want to prevent these tragedies like Nevada from happening again in the future." LaPierre added that for maximum security, teachers should give all lessons from underneath their desks while blindly firing a semiautomatic M4 carbine assault rifle in all directions.
:lol:
Might work.
My kids guns have arrived!
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 25, 2013, 08:44:43 AM
My kids guns have arrived!
PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
At least post some targets once you've taken them out to the range :)
QuoteDeputy kills 13-year-old carrying fake rifle
(CNN) -- A sheriff's deputy mistakenly thought he saw a teen carrying an assault rifle on a California street this week and shot him dead, authorities said.
It turned out the 13-year-old boy was carrying two fake guns, a replica AK-47 and a fake pistol, the Santa Rosa County Sheriff's office said. The Tuesday shooting is being investigated, the sheriff's office said.
School officials in the northern California city of Santa Rosa identified the teen as Andy Lopez Cruz.
"The Santa Rosa City School District family is deeply saddened by the loss of Andy Lopez Cruz," a school system statement said. "This is a tragic event for family, schools and the community. His administrators and teachers will remember him as kind, intelligent and capable."
Two Sonoma County deputies spotted the boy holding what appeared to be an assault rifle Tuesday afternoon, the Santa Rosa County Sheriff's office said. They pulled over "but maintained cover behind their open passenger door," the press release said.
They yelled at the teen to put the weapon down. He had his back to them and began turning around toward the officers, the statement said.
"One of the deputies described that as the subject was turning toward him the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction. The deputy feared for his safety, the safety of his partner, and the safety of the community members in the area," the statement said.
A deputy shot the teen. The teen was handcuffed, and the officers called for an ambulance, the statement said. Deputies found the fake rifle on the ground near the boy. The bogus handgun was tucked in his waistband.
Ismael Mondragon said he was in front of the sheriff's cruiser at a stop sign when he saw Cruz with the replica. Mondragon told CNN he warned the teen, "Put that thing away. The police are here," but got no response.
Mondragon said he went through the stop sign and saw the sheriff's car pull over behind him. Within seconds, he said, he heard shots fired and saw the teen fall.
Cruz's classmates were saddened by the news, Lawrence Cook Middle School Assistant Principal Linsey Gannon told CNN affiliate KRON.
"He was a very popular student," Gannon told the affiliate. "He was a handsome young man with many friends and a lovely family. He will be missed."
Late Wednesday, a crowd gathered in the dirt field where the boy was shot, to hold a memorial that turned into a rally against police shootings, CNN affiliate KGO reported. In the crowd was Cruz's mother who said she was too grief-stricken to talk, KGO reported.
Family friend Gabriel Roque said she was outraged.
"He was a 13-year-old boy who was no harm to anybody. This was not a grown man walking down the street with a gun," she told the affiliate. "He was a 13-year-old little boy, you could just tell him to put it down."
Quote from: derspiess on October 25, 2013, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 25, 2013, 08:44:43 AM
My kids guns have arrived!
PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
At least post some targets once you've taken them out to the range :)
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Picts.
:nerd:
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 25, 2013, 10:58:27 AM
Picts.
Also the theme of the new Asterix comic.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-5UI8USOI2Fo%2FUeWb-awHxII%2FAAAAAAAAOug%2FRaihMF94ayY%2Fs1600%2Fimage1ben.png&hash=0e31b0dcae75afc558b6ffbe3b9d61a05a94e81c)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2013, 10:40:12 AM
QuoteDeputy kills 13-year-old carrying fake rifle
(CNN) -- A sheriff's deputy mistakenly thought he saw a teen carrying an assault rifle on a California street this week and shot him dead, authorities said.
It turned out the 13-year-old boy was carrying two fake guns, a replica AK-47 and a fake pistol, the Santa Rosa County Sheriff's office said. The Tuesday shooting is being investigated, the sheriff's office said.
School officials in the northern California city of Santa Rosa identified the teen as Andy Lopez Cruz.
"The Santa Rosa City School District family is deeply saddened by the loss of Andy Lopez Cruz," a school system statement said. "This is a tragic event for family, schools and the community. His administrators and teachers will remember him as kind, intelligent and capable."
Two Sonoma County deputies spotted the boy holding what appeared to be an assault rifle Tuesday afternoon, the Santa Rosa County Sheriff's office said. They pulled over "but maintained cover behind their open passenger door," the press release said.
They yelled at the teen to put the weapon down. He had his back to them and began turning around toward the officers, the statement said.
"One of the deputies described that as the subject was turning toward him the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction. The deputy feared for his safety, the safety of his partner, and the safety of the community members in the area," the statement said.
A deputy shot the teen. The teen was handcuffed, and the officers called for an ambulance, the statement said. Deputies found the fake rifle on the ground near the boy. The bogus handgun was tucked in his waistband.
Ismael Mondragon said he was in front of the sheriff's cruiser at a stop sign when he saw Cruz with the replica. Mondragon told CNN he warned the teen, "Put that thing away. The police are here," but got no response.
Mondragon said he went through the stop sign and saw the sheriff's car pull over behind him. Within seconds, he said, he heard shots fired and saw the teen fall.
Cruz's classmates were saddened by the news, Lawrence Cook Middle School Assistant Principal Linsey Gannon told CNN affiliate KRON.
"He was a very popular student," Gannon told the affiliate. "He was a handsome young man with many friends and a lovely family. He will be missed."
Late Wednesday, a crowd gathered in the dirt field where the boy was shot, to hold a memorial that turned into a rally against police shootings, CNN affiliate KGO reported. In the crowd was Cruz's mother who said she was too grief-stricken to talk, KGO reported.
Family friend Gabriel Roque said she was outraged.
"He was a 13-year-old boy who was no harm to anybody. This was not a grown man walking down the street with a gun," she told the affiliate. "He was a 13-year-old little boy, you could just tell him to put it down."
The Predator managed to tell a fake gun from a real gun.
Please don't use that term to refer to Grallon. :mad:
:(
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZXfsACkl4U
Quote from: 11B4V on October 26, 2013, 01:31:55 AM
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZXfsACkl4U
So close to winning a Darwin award.
One thing the Bundeswehr was good at was teaching us recruits gun safety. After a few weeks when you were handed your G3 you automatically ran the check if there was any bullet in it once you stepped out of the barracks. Imagine my surprise when one day (a day after there was a marksmanship competition for officers, oddly enough) a live round flew out of the ejector when I ran the routine check.
The sergeant I reported it to nearly shit himself and the whole battery had to go through the safety checks step by step on voice command. :lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on October 26, 2013, 01:31:55 AM
:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZXfsACkl4U
I thought real people didn't do that "look down the barrel" thing, I thought it was just an exaggeration to make a joke about someone being stupid.
The spike that visits regularly has a buddy. A small three point. I knocked some apples off the trees and split a few open. They came 30 minutes later.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/901665_10202243294835004_1838840094_o.jpg)
Soon...
Quote from: DGuller on October 26, 2013, 02:31:26 AM
I thought real people didn't do that "look down the barrel" thing, I thought it was just an exaggeration to make a joke about someone being stupid.
Dude, I've seen cops do it. WHAT IS THAT LINT IN THERE
Well, it's one thing if you're sure the weapon is cleared. But goddamn.
Quote from: derspiess on November 08, 2013, 10:40:21 PM
Soon...
Yeah, 3 pointers grow into 8 and 9 pointers faster than you think. 11Bravo's Operation LOL Sucker is proceeding according to plan.
Took the twins out to shoot their tiny Henry .22 rifles. They seemed to absorb the safety lecture pretty well. That and the rifles are single shot. Damn, it is tiring reloading the things.
Have to work on their aim a bit. Plus I posted a couple of pictures on my Facebook and my 2 ultralibtard cousins got pissed. So I got a laugh out of that.
Stupid chick cousins. :rolleyes:
The FrankenMauser is just about complete. A re-barreled Polish small M98 Mauser action chambered in 6.5x55 Swedish, B&C Medalist stock, 22" ER Shaw barrel, Timmeny trigger, Interarms Mark X trigger guard. I just have to finish glass bedding the front recoil lug.
(https://sites.google.com/site/8mmmauserreloading/_/rsrc/1384898377275/other/6-5x55mm/Clipboard05.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/8mmmauserreloading/_/rsrc/1384898421775/other/6-5x55mm/P1010057.JPG)
QuoteThe House is really worried about 3D printed guns. So it's voted to ban them.
By Brian Fung, WashingtonPost.com
Should Congress ban plastic guns?
Members of the House think so. Earlier this afternoon, the chamber extended a blanket prohibition on undetectable firearms in Washington's latest attempt at grappling with a new and sometimes confusing technology.
Lawmakers such as Rep. Steve Israel (D-N.Y.) have been pushing hard for the renewal to pass. Last month, Israel likened 3D printers to "Star Trek" replicators, saying that the ability to 3D-print weapons had turned science fiction into reality. The current law is set to expire on Dec. 9.
While 3D printing has driven a lot of the recent furor over plastic firearms, the move to restrict their use dates back at least a quarter-century.
The story begins with one of the most popular firearms on the market today — the Glock. Back in 1988, the Glock 17 became a favorite for its lightweight polymer construction. Police officers were delighted that they no longer needed to carry bulky, six-round revolvers that were hard for some to use under pressure and required frequent cleaning. (Not every officer <_< )But the Glock soon raised fears that its plastic components would allow it to slip past security checkpoints.
So Congress came up with the Undetectable Firearms Act, a law that's now 25 years old. It prohibited guns that couldn't be picked up in a metal detector or X-ray machine, and has been renewed twice since its passage. If the Senate now follows the House's lead, Congress will have voted to renew the act a third time. Sen. Chuck Schumer has been a vocal proponent of the ban, warning that not renewing it would risk letting people bring 3D-printed guns into schools, sports games, government buildings and airplanes.
The actual risk posed by plastic weapons isn't entirely clear. It turns out that actually making a 3D-printed gun is a lot harder than it sounds. The devices are prone to breaking, whereas even more recent advances in 3D-printed metals have produced a gun that survived a monster 500-round stress test. The design for many 3D-printed guns include a metal pin to make them compliant with the Undetectable Firearms Act. But often, the part is easily removed.
Indeed, plastics may continue to be the preferred material for the surreptitious kind, making them an easy, uh, target for jittery lawmakers.
yawn
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2013, 09:31:49 AM
The story begins with one of the most popular firearms on the market today — the Glock. Back in 1988, the Glock 17 became a favorite for its lightweight polymer construction. Police officers were delighted that they no longer needed to carry bulky, six-round revolvers that were hard for some to use under pressure and required frequent cleaning. (Not every officer <_< )But the Glock soon raised fears that its plastic components would allow it to slip past security checkpoints.
:nelson:
Wait, cops couldn't handle .38's? Hilarious.
New purchase on order:
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=GM413209
The Judge. It fires shotgun shells. Badass.
Taurus. :rolleyes: Brazilian shit. What, no Caracals on sale?
Knew you were cheap. Didn't know you were that cheap.
:cry:
Wait, I am cheap. Carry on.
Every morning when I go to choose my conceal carry weapon, I feel like a chick. Should I go with the PPK? Or the Glock? No, the old .38. No, maybe the Ruger LCR.
Decisions decisions.
You are a chick if you go with anything less than an American-made wheel gun. You pussy.
My German Walther is a fine gun. And it makes me feel like a Gestapo agent.
I'm sure it looks super on you during Shit Porn Night, Klaus.
Dusted off an old project and assembled a Spikes Tactical AR lower for my Spikes 5.45x39 upper. Did it all from memory and of course it took me twice as long as it should have. Oh well, at least now I have an "all Spikes" rifle. And somehow I managed to avoid damaging the finish while putting in those goddamned roll pins.
So now I have an extra lower that needs an upper :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on February 04, 2014, 11:07:01 PM
So now I have an extra lower that needs an upper :hmm:
Enough about your testicles, what's up with the receiver?
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Why you shooting dog's spicy :angry:
I laughed.
Finally got my hands on an East German M91/30 Mosin Nagant, or at least I will get my hands on it when UPS delivers it to my door Monday (C&R license FTW). Been wanting one for ages. The only thing that differentiates these from standard Soviet M91/30s is a triangle-1 mark, but there's some cool history in them.
Also had a moment of weakness and ordered a third Tokarev pistol, a Yugoslavian M57. Friggin' steal for $169. 7.62x25 ammo is hard to come by, but I stocked up the last time it was available. Fun little round.
(https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/resized/f3m57X.jpg)
Spicy needs a track suit.
I yam lookink for Moose and Sqvirrel.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26222578
Relaxing gun laws results in more being being killed by guns.
QuoteResearchers claim a new study provides some of the most compelling evidence yet for tighter gun controls in the US.
The team followed the consequences of the State of Missouri repealing its permit-to-purchase handgun law in 2007.
The law had required purchasers to be vetted by the local sheriff and to receive a licence before buying a gun.
Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.
The study links the abandonment of the background check to an additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.
"Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri," said Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.
"That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide," he told BBC News.
The team said it took account of changes that occurred in policing levels and incarceration rates, trends in burglaries, and statistically controlled for other possible confounding factors such as shifts in unemployment and poverty.
What was stark, added Prof Webster, was the rise in the number of handguns that subsequently found their way into the hands of criminals.
The team counted a doubling of handguns shortly after sale being recovered from scenes of crimes or from criminals.
"This study is compelling confirmation that weaknesses in firearm laws lead to deaths from gun violence," said Prof Webster.
The Johns Hopkins researcher was participating in a discussion here at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).
The theme was "science-based strategies for reducing gun violence".
America currently has more than 300 million firearms in circulation. But the issue of gun control remains a hugely contentious one.
I think you're arguing from the wrong premise, sbr. I don't believe gun related deaths is a relevant factor to Americans who want less gun control.
Quote from: Jacob on February 17, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
I think you're arguing from the wrong premise, sbr. I don't believe gun related deaths is a relevant factor to Americans who want less gun control.
It may not be, but they're still arguing under the pretext that more guns improves people's safety, in a country like US. Yeah, it does sound stupid, but when there is a will for something to be true, there is a way to make it true.
Quote from: Jacob on February 17, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
I think you're arguing from the wrong premise, sbr. I don't believe gun related deaths is a relevant factor to Americans who want less gun control.
I'm not arguing anything, I am just posting an article I thought was interesting. :zipped:
Quote from: Jacob on February 17, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
I think you're arguing from the wrong premise, sbr. I don't believe gun related deaths is a relevant factor to Americans who want less gun control.
Right... I misread the opening line of the article as being part of your post. :blush:
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on October 05, 2013, 09:30:51 PM
So, trying to come up with cold weather outdoor activities, I was thinking maybe I'd take advantage of Vermont's non-existent gun laws and take up target shooting. None of the gun ranges/fish and game clubs here seem to rent out weapons, but they're cheap to join. So I'd have to buy some kind of gun...
Any suggestions on how to get started with this? Any thoughts on pistol vs. rifle in terms of recreational enjoyment? Pistol seems more fun at first glance... I figure a .22 of some sort is the obvious choice since the ammunition is so cheap.
Go to a gun range. For a few bucks you can rent a gun, and a few bucks more you can rent a chance to try out all their guns. It is a way to find out what you like.
Ammo is expensive. A .22 will get you laughed at. Honestly, I'd find another hobby to take up.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 17, 2014, 09:45:47 PM
Go to a gun range. For a few bucks you can rent a gun, and a few bucks more you can rent a chance to try out all their guns. It is a way to find out what you like.
Ammo is expensive. A .22 will get you laughed at. Honestly, I'd find another hobby to take up.
I've been to gun ranges in a few states, rented pistols, and mostly shot .38 revolvers. I've shot a .45, a .357 magnum, a 9mm, and a .22 rifle (when I was under 21 in Penna. and couldn't rent a pistol) at gun ranges; 10-gauge and 12-gauge shotguns, and some rifles I don't remember, repeatedly at gun clubs; and a Desert Eagle and a .44 magnum out in the woods with my friend's crazy uncle when I was in junior high (almost blew my 90-pound ass on the ground).
The type of gun I'm selecting tends to be the least of my troubles in terms of getting laughed at by people at the gun range. :lol: My demeanor, physical appearance, general ignorance about the finer points of gun use, and blatant citified non-hunting/shooting upbringing marks me out right away (even though my father did become a gun nut in his own right later in life, getting himself a CCW permit (very hard to get in his state) and a Taurus Judge to go along with it, as well as hanging out at a split Italian/Portuguese gun club (despite being Jewish), becoming best buddies with an elderly, absolutely unrepentant Italian fascist who was held in a POW camp in Texas, loved the US version of fascism far more than his own, and came right back with a bride once released.)
The point was to learn, and obviously you have to reveal yourself as a rank amateur to do that. :sleep: The ammo on the big guns was pricey. When I went to the gun range at 19 and could only get a rifle or shotgun, I was amazed at how cheap my .22 ammo was compared to what my friends were spending on big handguns, which made an impression.
There don't seem to be any gun ranges per se in Vermont that I can find; they are mostly clubs that are easy to join, but don't rent out guns. Same is basically true for New Hampshire, despite its liberal-fascist strict gun laws compared to Vermont. I wanted to go up from Boston to shoot, but the one place I found that rents won't let you rent a gun unless you come with someone else, and none of my local friends had any interest. (Obviously, if you want to commit a suicide by firearm and you live in metro Boston, going to a neighboring state's gun range is the sensible economic choice, so I understand their policy.)
That said, many people would be surprised at how big gun culture is in Western Mass.; I heard a radio ad to the effect of "GUNS GUNS GUNS -- guns for protection, guns for hunting, guns for targets, guns for everyone! -- GUNS GUNS GUNS" advertising a Mass. gun store. Gun permits are decided by the county sheriff in relation to the reason you want it; home defense permits aren't granted much in Boston without making out a real need, but even in Metro Boston you could easily get a rifle for hunting or a handgun for target shooting if you had a halfway-believable story to tell. CCW in Mass., I have no idea, probably very restricted.)
Obviously I haven't followed up on this in 4 months, and don't feel a pressing desire to discharge firearms. But then again, I haven't picked up any other hobbies. :hmm:
Well, Western Mass is fairly different from the rest of the state.
I don't know if I dig the idea of renting a gun I am not familiar with or haven't qualified with.
Reminds me of how the Corrections officers would show up at work and get their revolvers issued to them, first come first serve. Don't think I can feel comfortable firing a weapon that Caliga dropped and didn't bother to tell anybody about on the previous shift. MAH BENT SIGHTS
Cal uses his gun to stir his gravy.
MAH SAUSAGE GRAVY
Quote from: garbon on February 17, 2014, 10:52:28 PM
Well, Western Mass is fairly different from the rest of the state.
Sort of... but it's not exactly a total Yankee redneck scene. Springfield and Holyoke are two of the most Puerto Rican cities in the U.S. per capita. And you've got the cultural influence of Amherst/Northampton and the classically lesbian "Happy Valley" stacked on top of that. Western Mass. :: Boston is totally different from the Upstate NYS :: NYC relationship.
But yeah, deer season is a big big deal.
Mihali, there may be a dozen reasons for them to laugh at you now, but if you are talking about taking up a hobby, presumably you will become quite adept at some point. Once you know what you are doing, you will get respect unless you are shooting a .22 that most guys will say is too underpowered for their wives.
I'm not the most knowledgeable by a long shot, but a .357 seems like a good alternative. It is a respectable gun, and can fire .38 caliber ammo that isn't so expensive and is easy to control.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 17, 2014, 11:08:58 PM
Mihali, there may be a dozen reasons for them to laugh at you now, but if you are talking about taking up a hobby, presumably you will become quite adept at some point. Once you know what you are doing, you will get respect unless you are shooting a .22 that most guys will say is too underpowered for their wives.
I'm not the most knowledgeable by a long shot, but a .357 seems like a good alternative. It is a respectable gun, and can fire .38 caliber ammo that isn't so expensive and is easy to control.
True enough. I'd say my #1 problem is that I've pretty much never had 'hobbies' -- target shooting seems like a decent one, but I barely have the motivation. #2 is I'm not intrinsically a gun-nut, don't feel the compulsion to surround myself with guns and/or fire them all the time. I basically like guns and I definitely enjoy shooting, but that much more than darts or bowling. #3 is I have always had shitty hand-eye coordination, which has prevented me from succeeding in darts, bowling, billiards, shooting, baseball, basketball, etc.
A .22 is a fine round to target shoot. Especially from a rifle.
Would I use it for a self defense round? Nah. Shoot cans? Yeah.
You're a Public Defender. Your ass should be strapped 24/7.
I recommend a nice .357 revolver, the frame depending upon the size of your grip or failing that, a compact .45 you are comfortable with. Something big bore that prevents things like, I dunno, resuscitation.
A high level cleric can always resurrect.
Shut up.
Or if you are like me and want that Adolf Hitler effect, strap a Walther PPK on.
How about a Colt Single Action Army...for the John Wayne effect.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 17, 2014, 11:28:03 PM
Or if you are like me and want that Adolf Hitler effect, strap a Walther PPK on.
Effeminate and gay. If the leather outwear doesn't convince anybody, then the shaken but not stirred martinis certainly do. PPK is a girlie gun, only suitable for cocktails over baccarat and officer suicides.
Did you just call Sean Connery gay? I am offended.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 17, 2014, 11:32:48 PM
Did you just call Sean Connery gay? I am offended.
James Bond never dynamited the Rock Island and Pacific in '69 killin' women and children an' all, wasn't more cold blooded than William Bonney or Clay Alisson or the James Brothers and never killed a U.S. Marshall in '73.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 17, 2014, 10:46:54 PM
The type of gun I'm selecting tends to be the least of my troubles in terms of getting laughed at by people at the gun range. :lol:
I've been to a lot of ranges & I've never seen someone get laughed at or looked at funny for shooting a .22 rifle or pistol. Lots of people use adapters to fire .22 in full caliber weapons or completely separate .22 versions to train with. It's a fun & inexpensive round to shoot. Only downside for .22 at the moment is that it's hard to find due to a continuing ammo shortage (thanks hoarders!). But for short range target shooting and plinking, it's a great choice.
For any kind of defense, I'd probably wield a baseball bat before a .22, unless it looked scary enough to make someone run away.
Hey, I need 5000 rounds of .22 ammo.
:lol: So it's you.
Stocking ammo is no crime-- I do it when prices are favorable. But those ordering 5000 at a time need a beatin'.
I don't have 5000 .22 rounds. Silly man.
I do still have 3000+ 7.62 rounds, bought with Raz's favorite currency, silver.
MAH SILVER.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 18, 2014, 10:40:39 AM
3000+ 7.62 rounds
:mad: Give me some of those. I only have about 200.
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 09:05:43 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 17, 2014, 10:46:54 PM
The type of gun I'm selecting tends to be the least of my troubles in terms of getting laughed at by people at the gun range. :lol:
I've been to a lot of ranges & I've never seen someone get laughed at or looked at funny for shooting a .22 rifle or pistol. Lots of people use adapters to fire .22 in full caliber weapons or completely separate .22 versions to train with. It's a fun & inexpensive round to shoot. Only downside for .22 at the moment is that it's hard to find due to a continuing ammo shortage (thanks hoarders!). But for short range target shooting and plinking, it's a great choice.
For any kind of defense, I'd probably wield a baseball bat before a .22, unless it looked scary enough to make someone run away.
Can't agree there - obviously a .22 has little stopping power as the rounds are tiny, and it isn't what I'd choose for defence if I had a choice, but having seen what softnose .22 ammo does to porkupines during my father's jihad against that species, I'd say it could still do a lot of damage.
Apparently, the Israelis adopted a .22 gun for non-lethal use, only to find it generally killed people all the same. The non-lethality of this calibre is overblown - people's bodies do not react well to having even very small bullets shot into them with (comparatively) little force.
So I'm seeing is that AR was all like:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fsb1g5.gif&hash=4f4884b1cf8f71cef0eb14d6212bef710d4a76e9)
And languish responded accordingly.
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:lol:
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 01:00:57 PM
Apparently, the Israelis adopted a .22 gun for non-lethal use, only to find it generally killed people all the same. The non-lethality of this calibre is overblown - people's bodies do not react well to having even very small bullets shot into them with (comparatively) little force.
A .22 can kill, for sure. Instant lethality/incapacitation is the key here, though. I don't have a huge house with long hallways, so any home invasion would be very much close quarters for me. If I only had a .22 I'd probably trust a baseball bat to drop the burglar more quickly than the gun.
A .38 pistol would be the bare minimum I'd go with if I were relying on a firearm for home defense, but YMMV.
You never know when a huk is gonna attack you.
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 01:42:50 PM
relying on a firearm for home defense,
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Swedish Krap.
Who was that toddler I saw you with the other day?
Quote from: The Brain on February 18, 2014, 01:48:53 PM
Who was that toddler I saw you with the other day?
U jelly.
QuoteKrap
Krupp?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg185.imageshack.us%2Fimg185%2F601%2Fkrupp88cm8as.jpg&hash=796ea6ceab4374892ac99b38f25b5c073eaedc08)
Home Air Defense.
I'd love to have a meat chopper.
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 09:05:43 AMI've been to a lot of ranges & I've never seen someone get laughed at or looked at funny for shooting a .22 rifle or pistol. Lots of people use adapters to fire .22 in full caliber weapons or completely separate .22 versions to train with. It's a fun & inexpensive round to shoot. Only downside for .22 at the moment is that it's hard to find due to a continuing ammo shortage (thanks hoarders!). But for short range target shooting and plinking, it's a great choice.
For any kind of defense, I'd probably wield a baseball bat before a .22, unless it looked scary enough to make someone run away.
Is actually being shot by a .22 round something that's easy to shrug off? Or is it more of a pop-cultural effect that people chose not to take it seriously?
I mean, if someone pointed a .22 at you, would you behave differently than if they pointed something of a heavier caliber at you?
Actually a semi-auto version of that would be great for home defense. A variety of submachinegun parts kits have been imported into the US (with the receiver torch cut to deactivate it) and a couple companies have taken the parts and made them into semi-auto, closed bolt versions of their former selves. They are sold as "pistols" with the folding stocks permanently welded. In some cases they made them into carbine-type rifles with a new 16-inch barrel (short-barreled rifles are legal but you have to buy a $200 tax stamp).
Here's a Polish PPS-43 you can get for $300 and up. I can't have one in Ohio because of the 32-round mag :(
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taurusarmed.net%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Fother-handguns%2F59707d1373425237-bought-my-2nd-pps-43c-70131_01_polish_pps_43c_640.jpg&hash=722142db0f848565c2a678d6c21133cbe713c352)
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 09:05:43 AMI've been to a lot of ranges & I've never seen someone get laughed at or looked at funny for shooting a .22 rifle or pistol. Lots of people use adapters to fire .22 in full caliber weapons or completely separate .22 versions to train with. It's a fun & inexpensive round to shoot. Only downside for .22 at the moment is that it's hard to find due to a continuing ammo shortage (thanks hoarders!). But for short range target shooting and plinking, it's a great choice.
For any kind of defense, I'd probably wield a baseball bat before a .22, unless it looked scary enough to make someone run away.
Is actually being shot by a .22 round something that's easy to shrug off? Or is it more of a pop-cultural effect that people chose not to take it seriously?
I mean, if someone pointed a .22 at you, would you behave differently than if they pointed something of a heavier caliber at you?
It's a pop-cultural artifact.
.22s lack comparative "stopping power", which is only to be expected - just look at the size of the bullet and the cartridge compared to a larger calibre round. But the notion that anyone could just shrug it off (not saying derspiess is saying that, but some do) is just silly. Also dangerous, if anyone took it seriously and neglected gun safety with .22s because of that meme.
For myself, I would definitely choose the .22 over a baseball bat, if offered the choice, for defence against a home invader. Particularly if that .22 was a semi-auto. Plink plink plink. ;) I don't think a crook would be much in the mood for a fight with three or more holes though him, which you could put in the time it took for him to cross a room.
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 01:52:00 PM
Is actually being shot by a .22 round something that's easy to shrug off? Or is it more of a pop-cultural effect that people chose not to take it seriously?
I mean, if someone pointed a .22 at you, would you behave differently than if they pointed something of a heavier caliber at you?
I wouldn't shrug it off so much, no. But then I'm not your typical home invader hopped up on crystal meth and adrenaline & with nothing to live for.
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 02:37:46 PM
For myself, I would definitely choose the .22 over a baseball bat, if offered the choice, for defence against a home invader. Particularly if that .22 was a semi-auto. Plink plink plink. ;) I don't think a crook would be much in the mood for a fight with three or more holes though him, which you could put in the time it took for him to cross a room.
A .22 pistol that holds a lot of rounds-- maybe. But I can't think of one that fits the bill. Your family bolt action .22 though-- fuhgettaboutit.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 18, 2014, 01:50:55 PM
I'd love to have a meat chopper.
Didn't Lady Gaga fly one?
And FWIW I'm not a caliber snob or at all. For me a 9mm pistol seems about ideal for home defense.
This dude has some good insight on home defense in general. Part of it may insult Seedy, though.
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/your-45-is-not-a-death-ray
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 03:34:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 01:52:00 PM
Is actually being shot by a .22 round something that's easy to shrug off? Or is it more of a pop-cultural effect that people chose not to take it seriously?
I mean, if someone pointed a .22 at you, would you behave differently than if they pointed something of a heavier caliber at you?
I wouldn't shrug it off so much, no. But then I'm not your typical home invader hopped up on crystal meth and adrenaline & with nothing to live for.
sounds like you need to move to better part of town.
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 03:58:27 PM
And FWIW I'm not a caliber snob or at all. For me a 9mm pistol seems about ideal for home defense.
This dude has some good insight on home defense in general. Part of it may insult Seedy, though.
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/your-45-is-not-a-death-ray
With all due respect, websites like this all sound like they are written by people who expect unstoppable ninja attacks on themselves regularly. :lol:
Ninjas aren't unstoppable, but only a ninja can destroy a ninja [1].
[1] Ninja III: The Domination
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
With all due respect, websites like this all sound like they are written by people who expect unstoppable ninja attacks on themselves regularly. :lol:
I bet they do. But this one's a pretty well-respected guy. I didn't just randomly pick an article.
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 05:04:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
With all due respect, websites like this all sound like they are written by people who expect unstoppable ninja attacks on themselves regularly. :lol:
I bet they do. But this one's a pretty well-respected guy. I didn't just randomly pick an article.
Respected or not, when a guy is claiming that having less than ten rounds in your .45 isn't enough, and stating that one really ought to practice shooting while lying in bed holding a flashlight, I think he's a bit off the deep end into paranoia. :lol:
The whole premise of the article is that shooting a guy point-blank in the face three times with a .45 may not stop him, which may be true in some theoretical sense, or have happened once to the old dude in the article, but the vast majority of faces out there aren't really that bulletproof.
I don't think it's a particularly bad idea for most regular people to have a (relatively) lot of bullets ready to go vs. just the handful in your sweet 80s buddycop show snub nose revolver. Regular people probably have a pretty good chance of missing a whole bunch if they're in a shitty situation where they're shooting at someone in their house for the first time.
E: And also because: Between misses, the regular guy's MANSTOPPER 9000 bullets may not actually be as effective as the box makes it appear.
I carry spare magazines. What if I'm attacked by ninjas?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HuajFYw-lEY%2FTiww3euvbII%2FAAAAAAAAEX4%2F4mYsWWrJUB0%2Fs1600%2FBad%252BDudes.bmp&hash=cdac7e24139a99a4c25973f9a20eb35fc0f8d144)
How prevalent are home invasions in the US?
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 05:12:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 05:04:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
With all due respect, websites like this all sound like they are written by people who expect unstoppable ninja attacks on themselves regularly. :lol:
I bet they do. But this one's a pretty well-respected guy. I didn't just randomly pick an article.
Respected or not, when a guy is claiming that having less than ten rounds in your .45 isn't enough, and stating that one really ought to practice shooting while lying in bed holding a flashlight, I think he's a bit off the deep end into paranoia. :lol:
The whole premise of the article is that shooting a guy point-blank in the face three times with a .45 may not stop him, which may be true in some theoretical sense, or have happened once to the old dude in the article, but the vast majority of faces out there aren't really that bulletproof.
Okay.
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
How prevalent are home invasions in the US?
I calculated I was several times more likely to be shot if I had a gun in the house than a home invader.
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
How prevalent are home invasions in the US?
Going by the news, in darkie areas, a lot.
Where I'm at, not much at all. A ninja did try to break into vagina wall house though. His ineffectual attempt to defeat the front door lock gave me plenty of time to set up an ambush point.
He fled though when he couldn't break in. :(
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
How prevalent are home invasions in the US?
Most home invasions by Ninjas go unreported. You never even knew they were there.
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 05:12:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2014, 05:04:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 18, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
With all due respect, websites like this all sound like they are written by people who expect unstoppable ninja attacks on themselves regularly. :lol:
I bet they do. But this one's a pretty well-respected guy. I didn't just randomly pick an article.
Respected or not, when a guy is claiming that having less than ten rounds in your .45 isn't enough, and stating that one really ought to practice shooting while lying in bed holding a flashlight, I think he's a bit off the deep end into paranoia. :lol:
The whole premise of the article is that shooting a guy point-blank in the face three times with a .45 may not stop him, which may be true in some theoretical sense, or have happened once to the old dude in the article, but the vast majority of faces out there aren't really that bulletproof.
You are going to want to have at least a Thompson submachine gun when Obama breaks into your basement and starts replacing the wood paneling with death paneling.
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
How prevalent are home invasions in the US?
Actually, they're surprisingly common in Baltimore but it's usually a variant of the drug dealer violence meme, e.g., trying to rip off a dealer's stash and cash in his home by wanna be gangstas, etc.
The type of home invasion envisioned by Captain .45-to-your-face-thricely though, not so much. Of course, guys like that expect the home invasion to come from the US government, in which case they will lose anyway, regardless of the amount of training that involves shooting at the little Missus from under the duvet with a flashlight at 3am.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 17, 2014, 11:31:13 PM
Effeminate and gay. If the leather outwear doesn't convince anybody, then the shaken but not stirred martinis certainly do. PPK is a girlie gun, only suitable for cocktails over baccarat and officer suicides.
PPK Short. :yuk:
Of course, on the other side of the coin, you've got Track Suit's overcompensating Tokarev barrels. Which one do you think is going to declare virginity first with a Colt Python? :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 18, 2014, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
How prevalent are home invasions in the US?
Actually, they're surprisingly common in Baltimore but it's usually a variant of the drug dealer violence meme, e.g., trying to rip off a dealer's stash and cash in his home by wanna be gangstas, etc.
The type of home invasion envisioned by Captain .45-to-your-face-thricely though, not so much. Of course, guys like that expect the home invasion to come from the US government, in which case they will lose anyway, regardless of the amount of training that involves shooting at the little Missus from under the duvet with a flashlight at 3am.
He's a cop. Show some respect.
You people making fun of my PPK. :weep:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 18, 2014, 07:51:52 PM
You people making fun of my PPK. :weep:
PPK is a very elegant weapon. :console:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 18, 2014, 10:33:54 AM
I don't have 5000 .22 rounds. Silly man.
:shifty: :ph34r:
Quote from: 11B4V on February 18, 2014, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 18, 2014, 07:51:52 PM
You people making fun of my PPK. :weep:
PPK is a very elegant weapon. :console:
That it is. Only bad thing about it is the .380 round. If they made one in 9x18mm I'd be all over it.
MAH UNDERPOWERED ROUND
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUdqeyPJ.jpg&hash=67f99e4f0e95bfbdc59460299223293f82185318)
Squee!
Quote from: derspiess on February 19, 2014, 09:48:05 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUdqeyPJ.jpg&hash=67f99e4f0e95bfbdc59460299223293f82185318)
Is a .45 enough gun for a cat? :D
Only if ninja cats are attacking.
Quote from: derspiess on February 19, 2014, 09:17:43 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 18, 2014, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 18, 2014, 07:51:52 PM
You people making fun of my PPK. :weep:
PPK is a very elegant weapon. :console:
That it is. Only bad thing about it is the .380 round. If they made one in 9x18mm I'd be all over it.
Eh, I have the Bersa 380 as the light carry.
looks like this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Ff%2Ff6%2FBersa_Thunder_380_nickel.jpg&hash=3899eaf16a43b4843a2865efdae856aad8ae93e1)
Quote from: 11B4V on February 19, 2014, 08:41:21 PM
Eh, I have the Bersa 380 as the light carry.
You're semi-butch. You're quasi-butch. You're the margarine of butch. You're the Diet Coke of butch. Just one calorie, not butch enough.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2014, 08:44:37 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 19, 2014, 08:41:21 PM
Eh, I have the Bersa 380 as the light carry.
You're semi-butch. You're quasi-butch. You're the margarine of butch. You're the Diet Coke of butch. Just one calorie, not butch enough.
Sig P250 (.40) is the other carry. :blurgh:
"carry" and "light carry". :rolleyes:
Fuck, even garbon doesn't accessorize that much.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2014, 08:48:46 PM
"carry" and "light carry". :rolleyes:
Fuck, even garbon doesn't accessorize that much.
Would off-duty and drop gun work better for you? :P
The word should fit the definition. :P
What does drop gun mean?
There's two definitions: the real one, and Caliga's. ROFL
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2014, 08:48:46 PM
"carry" and "light carry". :rolleyes:
Fuck, even garbon doesn't accessorize that much.
Accessorizing? :unsure:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2014, 08:54:54 PM
There's two definitions: the real one, and Caliga's. ROFL
:pinch:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 19, 2014, 08:53:22 PM
What does drop gun mean?
The clean unregistered one they drop at the scene after they shoot an unarmed mentally ill homeless person.
:D
Quote from: 11B4V on February 19, 2014, 09:02:15 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 19, 2014, 08:54:54 PM
There's two definitions: the real one, and Caliga's. ROFL
:pinch:
MAH TOES
Yi, a drop gun is a gun you use to plant on a suspect to justify the fact that you just shot an unarmed person.* But, as 11B would say, I reckon he should've armed himself first.
*Void in the following participating states: FL
SON OF A
I laughed at the wrong time. :weep:
At any rate, sounds like Yi needs to watch more police procedurals.
Just in time for this years range cycle for the Winchester 8x57mm. :showoff:
Swift Scirocco 2
8mm (.323)
190 grain Boat Tail
This may be the all around bullet for the 8x57 from Deer to Elk. They havent published the BC for it but should be close to .500
A Scirocco 2 showing cutaway.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shootingtimes.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F09%2Fst_swift-6mm-bullets_a.jpg&hash=0dd330073c3fbba3438bddc4d2c257d48a2afb4f)
Like I said, accessorizing. Love your choice in lip sticks, though.
So the latest panic buying spree is Russian 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, and 5.45x39 ammo. Everyone is worried Russian imports will be cut off. If it continues to spiral, I may throw a few tins of surplus on the market to profiteer.
Funny thing is I was just told by someone pretty trustworthy that most if not all Russian surplus ammo actually comes from Ukraine.
Quote from: 11B4V on February 20, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
Just in time for this years range cycle for the Winchester 8x57mm. :showoff:
Swift Scirocco 2
8mm (.323)
190 grain Boat Tail
This may be the all around bullet for the 8x57 from Deer to Elk. They havent published the BC for it but should be close to .500
A Scirocco 2 showing cutaway.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shootingtimes.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F09%2Fst_swift-6mm-bullets_a.jpg&hash=0dd330073c3fbba3438bddc4d2c257d48a2afb4f)
That's a pretty thick copper jacket. Feel free to send me 50 rounds once you have the load worked out :D
I've got plenty of 7.62 ammo. :)
Quote from: derspiess on March 06, 2014, 11:38:38 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 20, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
Just in time for this years range cycle for the Winchester 8x57mm. :showoff:
Swift Scirocco 2
8mm (.323)
190 grain Boat Tail
This may be the all around bullet for the 8x57 from Deer to Elk. They havent published the BC for it but should be close to .500
A Scirocco 2 showing cutaway.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shootingtimes.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F09%2Fst_swift-6mm-bullets_a.jpg&hash=0dd330073c3fbba3438bddc4d2c257d48a2afb4f)
That's a pretty thick copper jacket. Feel free to send me 50 rounds once you have the load worked out :D
Designed for controlled expansion
Really cool if a bit geekish test on different barrel lengths on an AR-pattern rifle. They started at 24" and cut off/re-crowned an inch at a time, measuring bore pressure and velocity. I was never a big fan of short-barreled ARs and this backs up a lot of assumptions I held.
http://sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-pOHkCMouKVo%2FUxvwsMWmcmI%2FAAAAAAAAXAk%2FJIUrLT-G3Y4%2Fs1600%2FArmalite%2BDavid.jpg&hash=f41e5b0f3703d0b506f22a0bfc140c5ad880f587)
ITALIANS UP IN ARMS OVER ARMED DAVID! (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26501460)
DAVID ALSO HIDES MANHOOD; THOUGHT TO BE OVER COMPENSATING!
:lol:
:lol:
A man with a small fig leaf has the need to carry a big gun.
Well by definition that rifle does have a big compensator.
Quote from: derspiess on March 10, 2014, 07:23:30 PM
Well by definition that rifle does have a big compensator.
:lol:
All this talk of buying guns makes me hungry. For guns. Or a Leopard MBT.
Well, the ATF has apparently banned importation of Soviet surplus 5.45x39mm ammo, or at least the plentiful and cheap 7n6 variety. Not because of anything going on in Russia/Ukraine, but because some goofball decided to make an AR pistol chambered for 5.45x39.
Importation of "armor piercing" handgun ammo is banned by federal law. And since someone made an AR-type pistol chambered for 5.45 and the ATF became aware of it, they reviewed the specifications for the ammo and determined it was armor piercing. Doesn't look to me like they correctly interpreted the relevant statute but the ATF can make whatever ruling it wants (it once ruled that a shoestring was a machine gun but then thought better of it).
Anyway, the panic-buying set in this afternoon. I have crates of 5.45 so I'm good for a while. May even be able to find some cheap parts since the entire value proposition for a 5.45x39mm rifle (over the standard 5.56x45mm) is now completely gone.
You know, it's a little disturbing how quickly gun owners panic. Makes one think they aren't the most level-headed people.
OBAMA!!!!
Quote from: Razgovory on March 28, 2014, 05:23:47 PM
You know, it's a little disturbing how quickly gun owners panic. Makes one think they aren't the most level-headed people.
Some aren't. Also doesn't help that many of them have more disposable income than they know what to do with. And then a lot of hoarders are speculators. Had I hoarded 8mm 10-15 years ago I'd probably be able to retire early.
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2014, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 28, 2014, 05:23:47 PM
You know, it's a little disturbing how quickly gun owners panic. Makes one think they aren't the most level-headed people.
Some aren't. Also doesn't help that many of them have more disposable income than they know what to do with. And then a lot of hoarders are speculators. Had I hoarded 8mm 10-15 years ago I'd probably be able to retire early.
This is true; I saw a chart in the one of the major papers the other day how the total number of gun owners in the US has gone down, but the total number of guns has gone up. Translation: gun owners are some nutty ass niggas.
:) I getting another one next week. :showoff:
It's a Ruger #3
Chambered in...(take a guess)
Pretty much agree with this guy 100%. Gun control advocates consistently shoot themselves in the foot.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-25/how-to-understand-georgias-guns-everywhere-law-four-blunt-points?campaign_id=yhoo#p1
QuoteHow to Understand Georgia's 'Guns Everywhere' Law: Four Blunt Points
By Paul M. Barrett March 25, 2014
How to Understand Georgia's 'Guns Everywhere' Law: Four Blunt Points
Georgia appears poised to enact a so-called guns-everywhere law, making it easier for firearm permit holders to take their weapons into bars, churches, and even airports. Approved last week by the state legislature, the bill awaits the signature of Republican Governor Nathan Deal, a strong gun-rights advocate up for reelection this fall. His opponent, Jason Carter, a Democratic state senator and grandson of former President Jimmy Carter, voted for the legislation, so enactment seems assured.
Non-gun owners doubtless find all this baffling. Here are four blunt points to sort out what's going on and how to respond:
1. The Newtown school massacre led to "guns everywhere." Perverse as it may sound, the horrific mass shooting in December 2012 at Sandy Hook Elementary produced a burst of state-level gun control bills around the country and then triggered a much stronger pro-gun backlash. The counter-reaction has now reached its apogee in Georgia. In the past year alone, 21 states have enacted laws expanding gun rights, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Several states added piecemeal provisions allowing firearms on college campuses or in bars or churches. Georgia's politicians, egged on by the National Rifle Association, have gone for broke.
2. Georgia illustrates the NRA's structural advantage on gun control. As if we needed a fresh demonstration of this phenomenon, the gun-rights lobby currently enjoys a fundamental edge in the debate about regulating firearms. In an era of falling crime rates, liberal enthusiasm for gun control simply doesn't pack much political punch outside certain blue-state environments. Yes, people get riled up, understandably, by mass shootings at schools or movie theaters. Over and over, we've seen those emotions fade quickly, giving way to a more sustained counter-reaction from the pro-gun side. The NRA has skillfully responded to calls for stricter gun control by portraying them as evidence that liberals' real agenda is confiscating firearms—all firearms.
A cadre of highly motivated, well organized pro-gun voters believe the NRA scare tactics and rally behind ever-more-aggressive measures to expand gun rights. Thus, we now have concealed-carry laws in all 50 states. We have traditional self-defense laws replaced by stand-your-ground—and in Georgia, guns everywhere. Even those who deplore these developments at some point must acknowledge the pattern. At present (and maybe always), the intensity of pro-gun passion exceeds that of anti-gun passion.
3. Skeptics of expansive gun rights need to respond intelligently. The smart response is not scorn or exaggeration. For better or worse, gun ownership has come to symbolize a range of deeply felt ideas about culture and government authority. Making fun of people who view their firearms as emblems of liberty and traditional values (however they define those values) will neither change minds nor repeal legislation.
Exaggerating the practical effects of gun-rights legislation doesn't make sense, either. The Georgia measure allows guns in bars and churches under certain circumstances. Saloon owners who don't want weapons in their establishments would have to post a sign saying so. That doesn't sound so onerous; a lot of bars in pro-gun precincts already have such signs. Worshipers in Georgia wouldn't be allowed to pack heat unless their congregation affirmatively votes to "opt in" to the guns-everywhere law. Personally, I wouldn't choose a synagogue whose congregants thought they needed Glocks to celebrate the sabbath. But that's me. If someone else's congregation feels safer knowing that people are armed, I say: Let them go with God. I doubt that enactment of Georgia's law will lead to a rash of shoot-outs. If it does, Georgians can reassess.
4. The best response to gun-rights extremism is a focus on fighting crime. Rather than engage with the NRA on the cultural battlefield, where gun-rights advocates have the upper hand, liberals should focus on the most-pressing problem related to firearms—that their prevalence in American society makes our violent crime more lethal. Broadly speaking, this approach would have liberals emphasize more aggressive enforcement of existing laws against illegal gun possession, rather than obsess about situations that allow law-abiding citizens to own guns and carry them on their person. Still speaking broadly, the anti-crime approach would have liberals ask how the extraordinary successes in reducing violent crime in places like New York—where gun control laws have not changed for decades—can be replicated elsewhere.
Turning back to Georgia, this mindset would inspire guns-everywhere skeptics (and if you can't tell by now, I am one) to focus on those provisions of the law that appear to be soft on crime and criminals. For example, the statute would provide more leeway for gun owners to escape punishment if they try to go through airport security while armed. That seems dangerous. We've decided as a society that we don't want guns on airplanes. This security requirement doesn't seem terribly difficult to remember, what with all the people in uniform at the airport and all those screening machines and long lines and having to take off your shoes, for goodness's sake.
A further troubling aspect of the Georgia law is that its ambiguous wording might provide wiggle room for a felon to invoke the state's separate stand-your-ground law as part of a self-defense claim. Now this would be truly preposterous. Felons, even in Georgia, aren't supposed to have guns in the first place, so maybe this issue is more a function of poor legislative craftsmanship than malign intent. But since pro-gun activists are simultaneously lobbying all over the place to make it easier for some felons to get their right to own guns reinstated, this facet of the law seems to merit quick repeal.
The upshot: Rather than argue that guns are evil or that gun enthusiasts are nuts, liberal skeptics should push back with concrete proposals for keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, and children.
Quote3. Skeptics of expansive gun rights need to respond intelligently. The smart response is not scorn or exaggeration. For better or worse, gun ownership has come to symbolize a range of deeply felt ideas about culture and government authority. Making fun of people who view their firearms as emblems of liberty and traditional values (however they define those values) will neither change minds nor repeal legislation.
I believe this was brought up a hundred or so pages ago in this thread.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 01:19:15 AM
Quote3. Skeptics of expansive gun rights need to respond intelligently. The smart response is not scorn or exaggeration. For better or worse, gun ownership has come to symbolize a range of deeply felt ideas about culture and government authority. Making fun of people who view their firearms as emblems of liberty and traditional values (however they define those values) will neither change minds nor repeal legislation.
I believe this was brought up a hundred or so pages ago in this thread.
Doesn't matter if you "make fun of them" or treat them like intelligent adults; the established (and working) "zero tolerance" strategy of opposing absolutely any legislative or administrative controls by the gun lobby prohibits any type of discourse at all in the first place.
So in that case, I'd rather just make fun of you, you redneck racist gun nut.
They don't even want to entertain the discussion, but they want respect. Too funny. Kinda like all those gangsta niggas they hope get the chance to shoot one night and their "diss'resspet".
Quote4. The best response to gun-rights extremism is a focus on fighting crime. Rather than engage with the NRA on the cultural battlefield, where gun-rights advocates have the upper hand, liberals should focus on the most-pressing problem related to firearms—that their prevalence in American society makes our violent crime more lethal. Broadly speaking, this approach would have liberals emphasize more aggressive enforcement of existing laws against illegal gun possession, rather than obsess about situations that allow law-abiding citizens to own guns and carry them on their person. Still speaking broadly, the anti-crime approach would have liberals ask how the extraordinary successes in reducing violent crime in places like New York—where gun control laws have not changed for decades—can be replicated elsewhere.
See, that would actually work, but the gun lobby's not interested in that either, e.g., prohibiting by law the federal government and the CDC's ability to collect data on guns, suicides, and other meta data that would assist in treating it like a public health issue.
So, even on the law enforcement front, the gun lobby fights every inch. Unless, of course, it's about those damned dirty niggers who want guns, then they're all about it "helping out" on the public safety angle, like the Mulford Act.
It's not gun control advocates that need to change their cultural attitude, it's the gun nuts; and until then, we're just going to have to be satisfied with the occasional news item of some gun nut accidentally canoeing their child's head in the next room, and then maybe people will figure out that a firearm is not the same consumer equivalency as a margarita blender.
:yawn:
The last few pages have provided a useful lesson in the different approaches one can take if the goal is to affect policy or to feel morally and intellectually superior.
a gun in your hand makes a fool out of you, oh yeah
a gun in your hand makes a target out of me, oh no
freedom, you ain't no freedom, you want your freedom,
your freedom is killing you man, freedom
you can't handle your freedom
--Henry Rollins
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 11:16:07 AM
:yawn:
Yawning doesn't do anything for the debate. Oh wait, it's about guns; so there's no debate at all. :P
Ugh, Henry Rollins. Makes me want to buy a gun.
Don't be such a Nickelback fag.
I don't take lip from a Loverboy homo.
Loverboy? :mad:
See, this is why society can't have so many guns. I'd shoot you down for that one.
I shoot, I score!
SWISH.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2014, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 11:16:07 AM
:yawn:
Yawning doesn't do anything for the debate. Oh wait, it's about guns; so there's no debate at all. :P
What's not to like about this Sparky? Makes you want to go all Spanish/American War on some beaners.
Sadly, America's youth only know "the Rough Riders" as a condom brand. :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2014, 03:56:20 PM
Sadly, America's youth only know "the Rough Riders" as a condom brand. :(
:lol: :cry:
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2014, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 11:16:07 AM
:yawn:
Yawning doesn't do anything for the debate. Oh wait, it's about guns; so there's no debate at all. :P
What's not to like about this Sparky? Makes you want to go all Spanish/American War on some beaners.
<_<
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 01:19:15 AM
Quote3. Skeptics of expansive gun rights need to respond intelligently. The smart response is not scorn or exaggeration. For better or worse, gun ownership has come to symbolize a range of deeply felt ideas about culture and government authority. Making fun of people who view their firearms as emblems of liberty and traditional values (however they define those values) will neither change minds nor repeal legislation.
I believe this was brought up a hundred or so pages ago in this thread.
:hmm: Sometimes you state the truth because it's the truth, not because you want to accomplish something by stating it.
i don't care about guns, and realize they're here to stay. but what i find odd is how creepy some people can be around guns. i mean, i've known people who refuse to admit anything negative about guns. like being unable to admit even basic facts, such as guns being inherently dangerous. or refusing to consider completely fictional scenarios where guns should be banned, no matter the hypothetical. it's just kind of weird
Quote from: LaCroix on March 31, 2014, 08:50:36 AM
i don't care about guns, and realize they're here to stay. but what i find odd is how creepy some people can be around guns. i mean, i've known people who refuse to admit anything negative about guns. like being unable to admit even basic facts, such as guns being inherently dangerous. or refusing to consider completely fictional scenarios where guns should be banned, no matter the hypothetical. it's just kind of weird
Sounds like you spend a lot of time egging on those creepy types :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on March 31, 2014, 08:59:42 AMSounds like you spend a lot of time egging on those creepy types :hmm:
nah. with most people, i don't see a point in arguing guns. some i've met seem to care more about guns than they do their own religion. the examples i provided were either from casual discussion or in-class discussion
Quote from: LaCroix on March 31, 2014, 09:15:21 AM
nah. with most people, i don't see a point in arguing guns. some i've met seem to care more about guns than they do their own religion.
One might say that they bitterly cling to both though, right? :P
Quote from: derspiess on March 31, 2014, 09:29:18 AMOne might say that they bitterly cling to both though, right? :P
nope. i have a lot of respect for religion, and i can see why people make guns their hobby. when it goes far beyond a hobby, though, that's where i think it gets weird. like that article posted here a year or two ago where there were some gun-advocates who treated gun disposal as almost a sin
Quote from: LaCroix on March 31, 2014, 09:49:16 AM
when it goes far beyond a hobby, though, that's where i think it gets weird. like that article posted here a year or two ago where there were some gun-advocates who treated gun disposal as almost a sin
IIRC that was over some rare, valuable items that ended up in the smelter. Or at least that's usually the case. I can't imagine anyone crying over a Hi-Point or a Cobra being disposed of.
Quote from: derspiess on March 31, 2014, 09:59:08 AMIIRC that was over some rare, valuable items that ended up in the smelter. Or at least that's usually the case. I can't imagine anyone crying over a Hi-Point or a Cobra being disposed of.
we're probably thinking of different articles. here's what i referred to:
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/09/168926749/nra-vows-to-stop-tuscon-from-destroying-guns
Quote"I've been getting threats," Kozachik says. "I've been getting emails. I've been getting phone calls in the office trying to shut this thing down or 'We're going to sue you' or 'Who do you think you are?' "
---
Rathner says the NRA will ask for an accounting of every weapon turned in and then go to court to stop the firearms from being destroyed. If that doesn't work, Rathner says they'll change the law.
Every gun has a soul.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2014, 03:56:20 PM
Sadly, America's youth only know "the Rough Riders" as a condom brand. :(
Ruff Ryders. :cool:
Quote from: LaCroix on March 31, 2014, 10:06:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 31, 2014, 09:59:08 AMIIRC that was over some rare, valuable items that ended up in the smelter. Or at least that's usually the case. I can't imagine anyone crying over a Hi-Point or a Cobra being disposed of.
we're probably thinking of different articles. here's what i referred to:
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/09/168926749/nra-vows-to-stop-tuscon-from-destroying-guns
Quote"I've been getting threats," Kozachik says. "I've been getting emails. I've been getting phone calls in the office trying to shut this thing down or 'We're going to sue you' or 'Who do you think you are?' "
---
Rathner says the NRA will ask for an accounting of every weapon turned in and then go to court to stop the firearms from being destroyed. If that doesn't work, Rathner says they'll change the law.
Okay, but I don't see the "almost a sin" part.
3D printed Mosin Nagant!
http://www.classicfirearms.com/3d-printed-mosin
With this, the singularity is truly upon us.
I took my ASSAULT RIFLES to the range today. I jammed the magazines very hard into them and made them squirt out 120 rounds out of each. Afterwards, I had a smoke.
Hon, hon you're deranged.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2014, 02:00:04 PM
I took my ASSAULT RIFLES to the range today. I jammed the magazines very hard into them and made them squirt out 120 rounds out of each. Afterwards, I had a smoke.
Did you: bump fire
Quote from: 11B4V on March 30, 2014, 04:02:15 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2014, 03:56:20 PM
Sadly, America's youth only know "the Rough Riders" as a condom brand. :(
:lol: :cry:
'Tis true - America's youth is sadly under-educated about the storied history of the Ottawa Rough Riders. :(
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftherecord.blogs.com%2F.a%2F6a00d8341c465d53ef0133f3170202970b-800wi&hash=fe1248ca8cc78ce856e57d00381fab6da7c222c5)
Quote from: Caliga on April 01, 2014, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2014, 02:00:04 PM
I took my ASSAULT RIFLES to the range today. I jammed the magazines very hard into them and made them squirt out 120 rounds out of each. Afterwards, I had a smoke.
Did you: bump fire
No.
I haven't been to the range in weeks, mostly thanks to the weather. Should be nice this weekend, which means it will be packed :mellow:
I was indoors. :)
The wind was horrendous yesterday to do an outdoor shoot.
Nyuk
QuoteFelons, fugitives bought guns amid backlog
State police clear mountain of overdue background checks for gun buyers
By Erin Cox, The Baltimore Sun
7:56 p.m. EDT, April 9, 2014
More than 300 people banned from owning guns were able to buy them last year because the state police were overwhelmed with background check requests, police said Wednesday.
People with histories of mental illness or convictions for violent misdemeanors, felons and fugitives were able to obtain and keep guns for three months or longer before state police reviewed the sales, according to records released by request to The Baltimore Sun.
Maryland State Police finally cleared the backlog of background-check requests last week that began more than a year ago and once stood at more than 60,000, leading to months-long delays in investigating thousands of firearm transactions.
Police say a team of undercover troopers has recovered nearly all of the 364 firearms sold to people barred from owning them, but four guns have not been retrieved. "To us, the danger has not passed," state police spokesman Greg Shipley said.
Nine transactions have been referred to prosecutors as knowingly illegal sales, he said.
Over the course of last year, dealers released 51,812 guns before a background check was completed. They could legally do that because of a loophole that allows them to give out firearms after waiting a week, regardless of whether the check is done. Normally, the seven-day waiting period provides plenty of time for state troopers to conduct the check and notify dealers.
But a surge in gun-buying last year, sparked by the Newtown, Conn., school shooting, overwhelmed the system beginning in January 2013. A tough new gun-control law pushed by Gov. Martin O'Malley and passed by the legislature spurred gun sales leading up to Oct.1, when the law took effect.
By then, the wave of buyers, racing to get ahead of the state's new handgun licensing requirement and ban on the sale of assault weapons, had grown to a tsunami.
More gun purchase applications were received in September 2013 alone than the state often sees in a year, police said. Of the 128,640 applications received last year, 40 percent of the firearms were released before a background check was completed.
That's how one buyer who was prohibited from owning a gun for mental health reasons took home a gun from a Baltimore County dealer on Oct. 1. State police did not see and reject the buyer's application until nearly three months later, on Jan. 29, according to records released to The Sun under a Public Information Act request. That gun was recovered by Maryland State Police.
A felon in Baltimore— one who would have failed an instant federal check that can be done at the store for shotgun purchases — took home a gun on Sept. 30. State police didn't fully review the transaction until mid-February, records show. Police also recovered that firearm.
"That's one guy out of 51,000," said Del. Michael Smigiel, an Eastern Shore Republican and vocal defender of gun rights in the General Assembly. Smigiel criticized the state police for insisting on doing their more exhaustive, time-consuming check instead of relying on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, to screen buyers.
"The big picture point is they could do this in matter of seconds. They could easily take care of this," Smigiel said.
Police say state law requires them to perform a more extensive check that involves searching more than a dozen databases.
To date, state police are aware of only one instance in which a gun released to a prohibited buyer was used in a crime. That Prince George's County carjacking case from January is scheduled to go to trial in May.
Dealers and gun-rights advocates contend that the vast majority of guns were released to people who ultimately cleared background checks and that the state's bureaucratic delays should not infringe on Second Amendment rights to own guns.
Most of the guns went to people who did not know they were barred from owning them, Shipley said. Some were convicted in other states where their crime doesn't result in losing gun rights. Others were convicted of crimes years ago, long before state lawmakers decided those offenses deserved longer sentences that result in losing gun rights.
A key gun-control advocate bemoaned the flood of firearms purchased in the state, but emphasized that it was a temporary situation.
"It's unfortunate that there were so many guns being bought that there was an overload, but it will never happen again," said Vincent DeMarco, president of the Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence advocacy group that worked to pass the state's strict new gun law. Gun sales have plummeted since the law took effect.
"This problem has been solved," DeMarco said.
Although hundreds of people ended up with guns they should not have owned, the data released to The Sun does not show a pattern of specific dealers handing out firearms to people barred from buying them. Most weapons released before the checks were completed went to buyers who would have passed the state's scrutiny.
"What we think happened is people who already owned guns wanted more guns," said Shipley, the state police spokesman.
Police provided more detailed records for background checks completed from October 2013 through March. During that time, guns went to 41 felons, 10 people barred from gun ownership under federal law, and five people considered fugitives. Attorneys reviewed each of the 345 people who bought guns they were barred from owning, and recommended charges in only nine of the cases, Shipley said.
"They're just not seeing that clear intent to be fraudulent," he said.
MAH RAHTS
Stabbing spree!
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/school-stabbing-spree/teen-held-26-counts-high-school-bloodbath-n76266
1st day of work, setting up the lighting for filming in the gun shop.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2014, 09:42:50 PM
Stabbing spree!
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/school-stabbing-spree/teen-held-26-counts-high-school-bloodbath-n76266
This is the gun thread. :rolleyes:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2014, 09:27:48 PM
Nyuk
QuoteFelons, fugitives bought guns amid backlog
State police clear mountain of overdue background checks for gun buyers
Lazy ass Cops.
Psycho gun nuts. 1,000 purchases a day, all because the We'll-Call-Him-A-Kenyan-Muslim-Instead-Of-Nigger-So-We-Can-Say-We're-Not-Racist-In-Chief's gonna take 'em all away. :rolleyes:
Although you'd appreciate how my mother flipped out when she got her copy of the Carroll County Times, and on her crossword/Soduku page there was a quarter-page advertisement for Jebediah's House O' Guns with Armalite Barrett .50 cal ripoffs on sale for $2,700. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 10, 2014, 09:13:05 PM
Psycho gun nuts. 1,000 purchases a day, all because the We'll-Call-Him-A-Kenyan-Muslim-Instead-Of-Nigger-So-We-Can-Say-We're-Not-Racist-In-Chief's gonna take 'em all away. :rolleyes:
Although you'd appreciate how my mother flipped out when she got her copy of the Carroll County Times, and on her crossword/Soduku page there was a quarter-page advertisement for Jebediah's House O' Guns with Armalite Barrett .50 cal ripoffs on sale for $2,700. :lol:
Fucking awesome. :D
I told her I was going to pick one up for Mother's Day. :lol:
Your folks are out in Carroll County? I thought they were on the Eastern Shore for some reason. I've got a good friend who grew up in Carroll County. :) Always had a lot of fun stories about his "free-spirited" youth down there. His folks moved to Gettysburg a few years back, though.
Nah, I grew up on the Eastern Shore from age 7 onwards, and we moved up here to Kerrull Kounty when I was 16. Still in the same house.
Shit around here ain't changed, except for some commuter sprawl. And the local townies and barflies are still the local townies and barflies, just with smartphones.
So shop we are setting up to film in just got one of these in today :lol:
A rather interesting way how Reuters presents this statistic ... :hmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F53038b556da8110e5ce82be7-604-756%2Fflorida%2520gun%2520deaths.jpg&hash=0381ee7305b5613c8eb37bdfd8ca26dea2e944b9)
For reference, a more conventional representation:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kobuk.at%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F668x347xreuters_infografik_gau_2.png.pagespeed.ic.AKHDL8VYmH.jpg&hash=467e13aa046cbd5f7d46bf17aa5c1f20f25c46a3)
It seems the creator of the graphic said she put the deaths below the x-Axis, because she considers all deaths to be negative.
Real?
I hope when I die it is a negative death.
Quote from: Syt on April 16, 2014, 11:55:38 PM
It seems the creator of the graphic said she put the deaths below the x-Axis, because she considers all deaths to be negative.
:rolleyes: Journalists should stick to reporting the facts, and leave the value judgments to their readers.
But who created the graphic, Reuters or Florida's Law Enforcement Department?
Reuters. She says she was inspired by this graphic. Somehow the Florida Stand Your Ground one doesn't seem quite as poignant.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visualisingdata.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2FIRAQ.jpg&hash=ba42c21168a86216f017ee99c02967a3a942a4f4)
That one works, mostly because it's red bars and thus they give the impression of blood dripping. Using a vector makes it look like the Stand Your Ground law actually reduced violent deaths if you don't stop and read the graphic carefully.
Anyway, was interested in knowing if it was Florida's Law Department the ones who were trying to fudge the graphic, but if it's just a journalist is less serious.
Quote from: katmai on April 11, 2014, 10:40:31 PM
So shop we are setting up to film in just got one of these in today :lol:
:bleeding:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F10153116_491469427642417_8890481117965615563_n-563x620.jpg&hash=4610cebee4494e992be66dec9ffd4241b51f5a90)
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Who's faster than a speeding bullet? Certainly not Caliga's foot or dermisfire's kitchen wall.
You'll wind up shooting something by accident, sooner or later. Hope the missus isn't too attached to that vase on the mantle.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 21, 2014, 06:47:07 PM
You'll wind up shooting something by accident, sooner or later. Hope the missus isn't too attached to that vase on the mantle.
:)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsugardunkington.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Fhomer-cartridge-family.jpg&hash=191b92faeb603b2634c1e516a60a37a7474b1844)
Cal's pistol just fell apart.
It's a firearm or sidearm, not a pistol. MAH VERNACULAR
MAH CLIP
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 21, 2014, 07:49:35 PM
It's a firearm or sidearm, not a pistol. MAH VERNACULAR
:huh: You feeling okay today?
Pistols are for duels and the 4×400 meter relay.
Concealed carry taken to new extremes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/23/dallas-archer-gun-in-vagina_n_5198486.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
USA! USA! USA! :D
Woman was a positive treasure trove of hidden goodies:
QuoteThat woman, Christie Harris, also had two bags of what turned out to be methamphetamine hidden in baggies in her butt, according to police.
Pistol in one end, drugs in the other. She's a walking rap song. ;)
Quote from: 11B4V on April 10, 2014, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2014, 09:42:50 PM
Stabbing spree!
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/school-stabbing-spree/teen-held-26-counts-high-school-bloodbath-n76266
This is the gun thread. :rolleyes:
And so you put yourself at an immediate disadvantage in arguing the point.
Quote from: mongers on April 25, 2014, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 10, 2014, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2014, 09:42:50 PM
Stabbing spree!
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/school-stabbing-spree/teen-held-26-counts-high-school-bloodbath-n76266
This is the gun thread. :rolleyes:
And so you put yourself at an immediate disadvantage in arguing the point.
Never bring a knife to a gun thread.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 25, 2014, 06:13:08 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 25, 2014, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 10, 2014, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2014, 09:42:50 PM
Stabbing spree!
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/school-stabbing-spree/teen-held-26-counts-high-school-bloodbath-n76266
This is the gun thread. :rolleyes:
And so you put yourself at an immediate disadvantage in arguing the point.
Never bring a knife to a gun thread.
Between us we've managed to bludgeon to death the idea of a promising joke. :(
I'm thinking of joining the cool kids and getting an AR-15.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 06:21:50 PM
I'm thinking of joining the cool kids and getting an AR-15.
Do you want to die in a paddy-field, desperately trying to unjam the thing ?
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 06:21:50 PM
I'm thinking of joining the cool kids and getting an AR-15.
Ed,
That is so '70's. :P
I'm bored.
Quote from: derspiess on March 28, 2014, 04:39:59 PM
Well, the ATF has apparently banned importation of Soviet surplus 5.45x39mm ammo, or at least the plentiful and cheap 7n6 variety. Not because of anything going on in Russia/Ukraine, but because some goofball decided to make an AR pistol chambered for 5.45x39.
Yeah, I dont visit this thread very often - so shoot me*
Out of curiousity what authority does the ATF have to unilaterally regulate in that manner. Isnt that sort of thing which needs to be done through Federal regulations which the ATF then enforces?
*Do not take literally.
No night vision. I'm not an elf.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
No night vision. I'm not an elf.
Eh, qiut being a girl. Just step out the back door and pop off a few.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 25, 2014, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
No night vision. I'm not an elf.
Eh, qiut being a girl. Just step out the back door and pop off a few.
Yeah. In the middle of a residential area. :rolleyes:
Way to shake off that redneck stereotype there, 114Confederacy
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2014, 07:04:54 PM
Out of curiousity what authority does the ATF have to unilaterally regulate in that manner. Isnt that sort of thing which needs to be done through Federal regulations which the ATF then enforces?
In the US the enforcement agency is usually the one responsible for rulemaking as well.
Here's one example from the ATF:
QuoteI. Background
The Attorney General is responsible for enforcing the provisions of section 38 of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (AECA), 22 U.S.C. 2778, that relate to the importation of defense articles and defense services, and also for enforcing the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53. The Attorney General is also responsible for enforcing the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, relating to commerce in firearms and ammunition. He has delegated all of those responsibilities to the Director of ATF (''Director''), subject to the direction of the Attorney General and the Deputy Attorney General. 28 CFR 0.130.
...
1. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 447 continues to read as follows:
Authority: 22 U.S.C. 2778.
...
3. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 479 continues to read as follows:
Authority: 26 U.S.C. 7805.
http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulemakings/notices/notice-43P.pdf
Those code sections give rulemaking responsibility to the President and the Secretary of the Treasury, which has then devolved upon ATF.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 07:37:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 25, 2014, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
No night vision. I'm not an elf.
Eh, qiut being a girl. Just step out the back door and pop off a few.
Yeah. In the middle of a residential area. :rolleyes:
Way to shake off that redneck stereotype there, 114Confederacy
;)
Quote from: 11B4V on April 25, 2014, 08:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 07:37:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 25, 2014, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 25, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
No night vision. I'm not an elf.
Eh, qiut being a girl. Just step out the back door and pop off a few.
Yeah. In the middle of a residential area. :rolleyes:
Way to shake off that redneck stereotype there, 114Confederacy
;)
Yee-haw! :)
Quote from: ulmont on April 25, 2014, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2014, 07:04:54 PM
Out of curiousity what authority does the ATF have to unilaterally regulate in that manner. Isnt that sort of thing which needs to be done through Federal regulations which the ATF then enforces?
In the US the enforcement agency is usually the one responsible for rulemaking as well.
Here's one example from the ATF:
QuoteI. Background
The Attorney General is responsible for enforcing the provisions of section 38 of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (AECA), 22 U.S.C. 2778, that relate to the importation of defense articles and defense services, and also for enforcing the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53. The Attorney General is also responsible for enforcing the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, relating to commerce in firearms and ammunition. He has delegated all of those responsibilities to the Director of ATF (''Director''), subject to the direction of the Attorney General and the Deputy Attorney General. 28 CFR 0.130.
...
1. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 447 continues to read as follows:
Authority: 22 U.S.C. 2778.
...
3. The authority citation for 27 CFR part 479 continues to read as follows:
Authority: 26 U.S.C. 7805.
http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulemakings/notices/notice-43P.pdf
Those code sections give rulemaking responsibility to the President and the Secretary of the Treasury, which has then devolved upon ATF.
If the enforcement agency gets to make their own rules as they go - where is the oversight and accountability?
The gun nuts may not be so nutty after all.
CC, are you feeling well?
Actual successful lawyer says: "The legislature has delegated its powers to the executive? WTF is that shit?"
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2014, 10:54:28 PM
If the enforcement agency gets to make their own rules as they go - where is the oversight and accountability?
Congress makes the law. The rules for enforcing that law are drafted by the agency that has expertise. There is a notice and comment period. If the rules exceed the authorization, they can be challenged. If the agency fails to provide appropriate notice and comment, they can be challenged.
Clowngress doesn't have expertise?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1510444_10203823658540354_4935524324050760380_n.jpg)
:hmm:
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2014, 10:54:28 PM
If the enforcement agency gets to make their own rules as they go - where is the oversight and accountability?
The gun nuts may not be so nutty after all.
Not to fuel the fire, but I think I mentioned before that the ATF once ruled that a shoestring is a machinegun. They later changed their minds.
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2014, 04:02:16 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1510444_10203823658540354_4935524324050760380_n.jpg)
:hmm:
Eleven Bravo going to the store.
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2014, 04:02:16 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1510444_10203823658540354_4935524324050760380_n.jpg)
:hmm:
I guess Jagged Alliance wasn't that unrealistic after all.
DGuller hacked the game so all his Mercs were Ivan.
http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=46190
It's good when bad things happen to bad people.
Chicks are hilarious firing guns.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2014, 08:40:27 AM
Not to fuel the fire, but I think I mentioned before that the ATF once ruled that a shoestring is a machinegun. They later changed their minds.
Yes, you mentioned it, but you failed to provide a link.
Okay, lazy ass.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.everydaynodaysoff.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2FATF-shoestring-machine-gun-2004.jpg&hash=1c7f503592e6613554554b86fcbe63d27781a550)
Not exactly a "shoestring is a machinegun", numbnuts. Now go accidentally shoot your television.
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/apr/29/armed-to-the-milk-teeth-america-gun-toting-kids?CMP=twt_gu
Enjoy!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2014, 07:32:25 PM
Not exactly a "shoestring is a machinegun", numbnuts. Now go accidentally shoot your television.
Is truth ever anywhere close to what the gun nuts believe?
Quote from: from the letterBecause this item was designed and intended to convert a semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, FTB determined that it was a machinegun...
Isn't 'this item' a reference to the '14-inch long shoestring with a loop at each end'?
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2014, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: from the letterBecause this item was designed and intended to convert a semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, FTB determined that it was a machinegun...
Isn't 'this item' a reference to the '14-inch long shoestring with a loop at each end'?
Yes, "this item" is in fact, an "item". It is not a "machinegun"--that definition is reserved for the former "semiautomatic rifle", one that dermouthbreather can't seem to grasp.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2014, 09:15:57 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2014, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: from the letterBecause this item was designed and intended to convert a semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, FTB determined that it was a machinegun...
Isn't 'this item' a reference to the '14-inch long shoestring with a loop at each end'?
Yes, "this item" is in fact, an "item". It is not a "machinegun"--that definition is reserved for the former "semiautomatic rifle", one that dermouthbreather can't seem to grasp.
:huh:
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2014, 07:16:43 PM
Okay, lazy ass.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.everydaynodaysoff.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2FATF-shoestring-machine-gun-2004.jpg&hash=1c7f503592e6613554554b86fcbe63d27781a550)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5XzQ1BS7gU
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2014, 11:00:59 PM
:huh:
The fuck you looking at? Get the fuck out of here.
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2014, 04:02:16 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1510444_10203823658540354_4935524324050760380_n.jpg)
:hmm:
That's how I picture my character in most RPGs.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2014, 09:15:57 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2014, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: from the letterBecause this item was designed and intended to convert a semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, FTB determined that it was a machinegun...
Isn't 'this item' a reference to the '14-inch long shoestring with a loop at each end'?
Yes, "this item" is in fact, an "item". It is not a "machinegun"--that definition is reserved for the former "semiautomatic rifle", one that dermouthbreather can't seem to grasp.
Incorrect. The ATF will actually designate a single gun part or accessory as a machinegun under certain circumstances. Figured you'd know that.
Sort of similar to how it considers this hunk of machined aluminum to be a firearm even though it's just a receiver:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slickguns.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FAR15_Receiver1_0.jpg&hash=d615c4373d8010af3692f4291647b83b4a063942)
Wow, six functional bombs. Usually they never work. This kid is an unusually talented nutcase.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-teen-methodically-plotted-carnage-three-acts-police-say-n95736
Quote
http://www.theolympian.com/2014/04/29/3108612/shelton-man-arrested-in-alleged.html
local boy. :lol:
and closing the loop :lol:
QuoteMan charged in Washington bomb plot dead in cell
A Washington state man charged this week with plotting to blow up a Walmart and two gas stations as a diversion for a robbery spree has been found dead in his cell.
The U.S. Bureau of Prisons said Thursday that Larry Ray Gillette was discovered unresponsive at the Federal Detention Center at SeaTac on Wednesday and was taken to a hospital, but could not be revived.
The FBI is investigating death as an apparent suicide, but no details were immediately released about the cause. Prosecutors said Gillette was arrested Monday as he tried to ignite what he thought was a car bomb. In reality, it was a dud provided by investigators.
A complaint unsealed Tuesday charged him with soliciting a crime of violence and being a felon in possession of a firearm.
Why are people always disappointed when that happens? Seems like it saves everyone else some time & effort.
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2014, 11:27:27 PM
Why are people always disappointed when that happens? Seems like it saves everyone else some time & effort.
We have a lot of tree hugging garbonites with ponytails out here.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 02, 2014, 11:33:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2014, 11:27:27 PM
Why are people always disappointed when that happens? Seems like it saves everyone else some time & effort.
We have a lot of tree hugging garbonites with ponytails out here.
:huh:
Do we really have many tree hugging, ponytail sporting black people?
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2014, 11:27:27 PM
Why are people always disappointed when that happens? Seems like it saves everyone else some time & effort.
:huh: He was the best a man can get.
The BAR has been raised gentlemen. :cool:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/08/ohio-ordinance-works-hcar-modernized-bar/
QuoteOhio Ordnance Works HCAR (Modernized BAR)
Posted May 8, 2014 in Companies, NFA / Suppressors / Class III, Rifles by Nathan S.
Ohio Ordnance Works has been busy preparing their new HCAR for release. Originally debuted in 2013, reports from Bearing Arms indicate that the rifle will be heading to production soon.
The HCAR or "Heavy Counter-Assault Rifle" is a modernized and improved Browning Automatic Rifle that Ohio Ordnance Works has been producing for over 20 years. Notable improvements include bolt-hold-open, increased magazine capacity, lighter weight, and ergonomic selector switch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEb4PzSfx0
"The Heavy Counter Assault Rifle by Ohio Ordnance Works is based on the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle. Chambered for .30-06, the HCAR sports many improvements over the original BAR including a reduction in weight of nearly 8 lbs, modernized selector switch and bolt hold open/release, and a proprietary 30-round magazine.
The HCAR will soon be available from Osprey Armament.
I have just joined the collective of Languishites who own a working[1] firearm. Saturday, I purchased a Ruger 22/45 Target (http://ruger.com/products/2245Target/specSheets/10107.html). I managed to sneak in an order for a brick of Norma TAC-22 match ammunition from Cabela's, which should be at the store for me to pick up a week Thursday. For now, I just get to familiarize myself with my new target pistol while my wife cringes in the corner.
[1] I have two non-functional double barrels that I need to get to a gunsmith, plus an air rifle.
Nice. Hopefully the .22 ammo supply loosens up soon, but a brick of it should last you a bit.
Yeah, this is getting ridiculous. I'm not sure what will pop this bubble. The manufacturers seem to be afraid to increase production, probably fearing the bubble will burst before they pay for the capital costs of the expansion. Norma has only been selling rimfire ammo in the US for 6 months, so maybe they and other foreign manufacturers can push the supply to where the speculators can't buy it all up any more.
Good choice, it's a very under-rated caliber. :thumbsup: You don't need to create large exit wounds to get the job done.
Nice going Baron. :cool:
At the range this morning some fuckhead in the lane next to me kept ejecting his brass all over me. One of them grazed my neck and went down the back of my shirt. Burned like a mofo. :mad:
Since this is the general firearms megathread now...
The nearest Cabelas has a Gewehr 88 (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gun-Library/Allen-Gun-Library%7C/pc/103792680/c/109186380/Amberg-Gewehr88-Model-1888-Commission-Rifle-In-792x57mm-Mauser/1651339.uts?destination=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3D109186380%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd1651339) on the rack right now that I saw today when I went to pick up my ammo. The price drop is pretty significant, but from what I can tell $580 for that rifle in its current condition was ridiculous. However, is it worth $400? My little bit of research indicates it might be a little high, but is at least in the ballpark of what it should be worth. I need to go back and look over the bolt and receiver markings in more detail.
You could get then for a lot cheaper than that a few years ago. But the cool thing about them is that they are all antiques & aren't regulated as firearms. Not sure I'd shoot modern 8mm ammo in them, though.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on June 12, 2014, 05:17:10 PM
Since this is the general firearms megathread now...
The nearest Cabelas has a Gewehr 88 (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gun-Library/Allen-Gun-Library%7C/pc/103792680/c/109186380/Amberg-Gewehr88-Model-1888-Commission-Rifle-In-792x57mm-Mauser/1651339.uts?destination=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3D109186380%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd1651339) on the rack right now that I saw today when I went to pick up my ammo. The price drop is pretty significant, but from what I can tell $580 for that rifle in its current condition was ridiculous. However, is it worth $400? My little bit of research indicates it might be a little high, but is at least in the ballpark of what it should be worth. I need to go back and look over the bolt and receiver markings in more detail.
Cabela's is always high. IMO Pass.
If you do get it, have the bore slugged to find out wheather it's groove diameter is .318 or .323 Cal. Also have the chamber cast too.
I think I'll skip that one then and use the money to get my shotguns reconditioned instead.
On the ammo, though, I have read that you should only use modern ammo in Gew88s, because of their age. Milsurp Mauser ammo is supposed to be corrosive and higher pressure than a gun of this age can handle.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on June 13, 2014, 09:12:18 AM
I think I'll skip that one then and use the money to get my shotguns reconditioned instead.
On the ammo, though, I have read that you should only use modern ammo in Gew88s, because of their age. Milsurp Mauser ammo is supposed to be corrosive and higher pressure than a gun of this age can handle.
Well, surplus 8mm is so rare these days to begin with (I wasn't actually suggesting that anyone shoot that in a GEW88), but I'd be a little wary even with modern commercial ammo.
I feel safe shooting my old M98 Mauser and that 100+ year old Mosin Nagant, but I'd just feel a little wary of firing a GEW88 at all, the more I think of it.
An 88?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhistorythroughgaming.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F06%2Fflak-88.jpg&hash=87fb59e0112afb40c922b79cfd2785d195a239a9)
Where do you keep it?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2F88icecream_zps415527cc.png&hash=6445f6122128ae79156d29b5bf6a29b511cdfc1c)
:mmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolcdn.com%2Fphotogalleryassets%2Fbv-news-sports%2F480694%2Flynn-swann-superbowl-x-450a012609.jpg&hash=8d03619e880e18ff87806d0ac2efd8c2bb14da50)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.org%2F6xqm4gej5%2Ftwitter.jpg&hash=748dc62fcb2f8225e7d628ac33338c0c2f34e80a)
Quote from: derspiess on June 13, 2014, 09:37:38 AM
Well, surplus 8mm is so rare these days to begin with (I wasn't actually suggesting that anyone shoot that in a GEW88), but I'd be a little wary even with modern commercial ammo.
I feel safe shooting my old M98 Mauser and that 100+ year old Mosin Nagant, but I'd just feel a little wary of firing a GEW88 at all, the more I think of it.
I guess it does depend on the condition of the receiver. Most guys don't seem to be concerned about shooting modern, lower-pressure ammo out of them, though.
As for milsurp, I have seen spam cans of Romanian surplus on various websites. No idea what the quality is like, though.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on June 13, 2014, 11:02:42 AM
As for milsurp, I have seen spam cans of Romanian surplus on various websites. No idea what the quality is like, though.
I have a few rounds of Romanian 8mm left, plus a bit of Yugoslav stuff. Can't bring myself to shoot it, knowing how expensive it is nowadays & how much I'd have to pay for more. Used to buy Turk 8mm for like $2.99 per 70 round bandoleer :(
Quote from: derspiess on June 13, 2014, 11:08:13 AM
I have a few rounds of Romanian 8mm left, plus a bit of Yugoslav stuff. Can't bring myself to shoot it, knowing how expensive it is nowadays & how much I'd have to pay for more. Used to buy Turk 8mm for like $2.99 per 70 round bandoleer :(
I guess its all relative. I never paid attention to ammo prices back then. Still, Cheaper Than Dirt (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-858) has milsurp spam cans for $0.49/round, which is on par with .308/7.62. More expensive than surplus rounds for your Mosin, though. :P
Actually, a Mosin is probably going to be the first rifle I buy. I haven't found a good local source besides Cabelas yet, though, and Cabelas is stupid expensive for them.
Mosin is a solid choice. They're plentiful, relatively cheap, have lots of historical value, and the batches imported from Ukraine the past few years have been in great condition. Also very reliable. Even the old ones I had with mismatched bolts all had headspace within tolerances. And cheap, cheap ammo of course.
How much does Cabelas have on them? You may be best off ordering one through a transfer dealer.
$200, which is their regular price. They were $180 last week. A transfer rifle would be at least $160 after shipping and fees, and I don't get to pick the one I want off the rack.
True. $180 for being able to handpick exactly the one you want isn't too bad. I can tell you though that the Mosins AIM Surplus has are all in excellent condition. I've bought a few from them in the past year or so.
Quote from: Valmy on June 13, 2014, 09:42:35 AM
An 88?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barrett-jackson.com%2Fstaging%2Fcarlist%2Fitems%2FFullsize%2FCars%2F20317%2F20317_Front_3-4_Web.jpg&hash=97bf6c7f7e4d48ada13221b3b18aebc31c54654a)
Quote from: Syt on June 13, 2014, 10:32:09 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.org%2F6xqm4gej5%2Ftwitter.jpg&hash=748dc62fcb2f8225e7d628ac33338c0c2f34e80a)
How is that even legal over there?
Quote from: The Brain on June 13, 2014, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 13, 2014, 10:32:09 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.org%2F6xqm4gej5%2Ftwitter.jpg&hash=748dc62fcb2f8225e7d628ac33338c0c2f34e80a)
How is that even legal over there?
They pulled the product and advertising :rolleyes:
Caliga and Oldsmobile win the thread.
Regarding firearms over 100 years old...I dunno, man. The only thing I'd trust to handle with any degree of certainty would be a book, nevermind a firearm.
If you buy something like that to put rounds through, don't mess with anything that old until you take it to a firearms expert first, vM. Somehow that strikes me as safer than the derspiess-in-the-backyard-with-Warsaw-Pact-surplus-ammo approach.
MAH BUG LAMP
I'm not firing anything used until it goes through a gunsmith's inspection. I don't care how new it is, if the chain of custody is not factory->gun store->me it's getting an inspection.
Plus, I'm viewing this as antiquing for straight dudes. If I can shoot these, that's just gravy. The Mosins were very well kept by the Soviets; they put millions in excellent storage conditions in case they needed to arm shitloads of Zaytsevs in the event of a war with NATO, so there is a good chance of getting a rifle that is both a collector's piece and operable. Something like the Gew88, if it's in good physical condition I wouldn't mind if I couldn't shoot it. The one I saw, unfortunately, needed refinishing.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on June 13, 2014, 06:46:42 PM
I'm not firing anything used until it goes through a gunsmith's inspection. I don't care how new it is, if the chain of custody is not factory->gun store->me it's getting an inspection.
Plus, I'm viewing this as antiquing for straight dudes. If I can shoot these, that's just gravy. The Mosins were very well kept by the Soviets; they put millions in excellent storage conditions in case they needed to arm shitloads of Zaytsevs in the event of a war with NATO, so there is a good chance of getting a rifle that is both a collector's piece and operable. Something like the Gew88, if it's in good physical condition I wouldn't mind if I couldn't shoot it. The one I saw, unfortunately, needed refinishing.
Refinishing it will drop what ever value it does have. Most folks buy Mosins, Mausers and the like. Another good choice is a high numbered '03 Springfield or an M1917. If you want an investment look into an M1 Garand. CMP has them for 625.00. All shoot 30-06 and you have a large range of ammo from plinking surplus Prvi to match grade. People generally buy cheap low grade surplus Mosins and Mausers, that is whats popular to the masses, which you should avoid, which leads to surplus ammo shortages because the rifles are cheap. You generally wont see any of these nimrods with a '03, M17, M96, M1 Garand.
http://www.thecmp.org/sales/m1garand.htm
Other choices
Yugo M48
Swedish M96
SVT-40
A Swedish rifle? Only borked once?
Quote from: The Brain on June 18, 2014, 12:49:11 PM
A Swedish rifle? Only borked once?
The Swedish 6.5x55mm is an excellent round. I own two rifles in this caliber. One a CZ550 and the other built on a custom small ring M98 mauser action.
Swedish Mausers are some of the most highly sought-after. The M48 or maybe an M24/47 is the best deal in Mausers these days, though with the golden age of milsurps still in memory I can't bring myself to call them cheap.
SVT-40s are nice pieces of history but you wonder how the hell they expected Russian peasants to maintain them. And they are prone to breaking down after a while. I bought one a long time ago that was in beautiful condition. Took it out & shot it for a while (took me several rounds to get the gas valve setting just right). Had it sit in my safe for a while and then flipped it for twice what I paid.
I also once had a Finnish M39 Mosin that was built on an 1897-dated Russian receiver. Almost looked like it had never been fired. The rifle was assembled in 1944, but since the receiver was dated earlier than 1899 it was classified as an antique and therefore not regulated as a firearm.
The one M39 I have left in my collection is also 1944-dated. It's VKT production, which is the most common. But the cool thing about it is that on the underside of the receiver tang, it has a New England Westinghouse mark, meaning the receiver was originally part of an M91 made in the US during 1915-1917 and shipped to Russia at some point before the Bolshevik revolution. At some point it ended up in Finnish hands, either around 1918 or during WWII, and then the Finns used the receiver to make an M39 rifle.
M39s are very accurate rifles. Also much nicer looking than any of the Russian Mosins IMO.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 18, 2014, 12:46:53 PM
Refinishing it will drop what ever value it does have. Most folks buy Mosins, Mausers and the like. Another good choice is a high numbered '03 Springfield or an M1917. If you want an investment look into an M1 Garand. CMP has them for 625.00. All shoot 30-06 and you have a large range of ammo from plinking surplus Prvi to match grade. People generally buy cheap low grade surplus Mosins and Mausers, that is whats popular to the masses, which you should avoid, which leads to surplus ammo shortages because the rifles are cheap. You generally wont see any of these nimrods with a '03, M17, M96, M1 Garand.
http://www.thecmp.org/sales/m1garand.htm
Other choices
Yugo M48
Swedish M96
SVT-40
OK, good advice. I'm not adverse to paying for a good rifle. My wife cringes when I start talking over $1000 though. :P
Today I bought a subscription to the Blue Book of Gun Values, which seems to be the closest thing to a standard out there. Armed with this, I have been trying to value a few 1903s that are available locally. One is a 1903A1 that I forgot to get the serial number to, but at $1200 the price seems reasonable, subject to close inspection of the rifle. This (http://www.jacksonarmory.com/JA/riflesDetail.php?mainID=12875) is the other. It's basically a 1903A1, but it has a WWI receiver in it. I'm not sure how to value that one, since the A1s are all interwar production. Also, I wasn't sure if your caution on SNs just meant SN > 800,000 or a caution against all WWI manufacture rifles.
I would really like one of the CMP Garands, but I'm having trouble finding a CMP-affiliated club around here that is not a youth program. Their club search function blows.
Some outfit (other than CMP) was refinishing/rebuilding 1903's and the couple I looked at were really nice. Forget who it was but they ran around $800.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHeXC7L85s
:D
Quote from: Syt on June 27, 2014, 12:04:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHeXC7L85s
Okay, that was damn funny. :lol:
If you lock up your guns only guns will be locked up.
Why isn't the solution to lock up your children when they are at home?
Quote from: garbon on June 27, 2014, 04:19:54 PM
Why isn't the solution to lock up your children when they are at home?
Spoken like someone who should have been locked up as a kid. :P
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on June 25, 2014, 03:35:29 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 18, 2014, 12:46:53 PM
Refinishing it will drop what ever value it does have. Most folks buy Mosins, Mausers and the like. Another good choice is a high numbered '03 Springfield or an M1917. If you want an investment look into an M1 Garand. CMP has them for 625.00. All shoot 30-06 and you have a large range of ammo from plinking surplus Prvi to match grade. People generally buy cheap low grade surplus Mosins and Mausers, that is whats popular to the masses, which you should avoid, which leads to surplus ammo shortages because the rifles are cheap. You generally wont see any of these nimrods with a '03, M17, M96, M1 Garand.
http://www.thecmp.org/sales/m1garand.htm
Other choices
Yugo M48
Swedish M96
SVT-40
OK, good advice. I'm not adverse to paying for a good rifle. My wife cringes when I start talking over $1000 though. :P
Today I bought a subscription to the Blue Book of Gun Values, which seems to be the closest thing to a standard out there. Armed with this, I have been trying to value a few 1903s that are available locally. One is a 1903A1 that I forgot to get the serial number to, but at $1200 the price seems reasonable, subject to close inspection of the rifle. This (http://www.jacksonarmory.com/JA/riflesDetail.php?mainID=12875) is the other. It's basically a 1903A1, but it has a WWI receiver in it. I'm not sure how to value that one, since the A1s are all interwar production. Also, I wasn't sure if your caution on SNs just meant SN > 800,000 or a caution against all WWI manufacture rifles.
I would really like one of the CMP Garands, but I'm having trouble finding a CMP-affiliated club around here that is not a youth program. Their club search function blows.
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1903.htm
QuoteWARNING ON "LOW-NUMBER" SPRINGFIELDS
M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.
To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000 and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called "high number" rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called "low-number" rifles.
In view of the safety risk the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all "low-number" Springfields. During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the rebuilding and reissuing of many "low-number" as well as "high-number" Springfields. The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.
Generally speaking, "low number" bolts can be distinguished from "high-number" bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down. All "low number" bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have "swept-back" (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.
A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be "low number". All original swept-back bolts are definitely "high number". In addition, any bolt marked "N.S." (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as "high number" if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).
CMP DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE WITH A "LOW NUMBER" RECEIVER. Such rifles should be regarded as collector's items, not "shooters".
CMP ALSO DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE, REGARDLESS OF SERIAL NUMBER, WITH A SINGLE HEAT-TREATed "LOW NUMBER" BOLT. SUCH BOLTS, WHILE HISTORICALLY CORRECT FOR DISPLAY WITH A RIFLE OF WWI OR EARLIER VINTAGE, MAY BE DANGEROUS TO USE FOR SHOOTING.
THE UNITED STATES ARMY GENERALLY DID NOT SERIALIZE BOLTS. DO NOT RELY ON ANY SERIAL NUMBER APPEARING ON A BOLT TO DETERMINE WHETHER SUCH BOLT IS "HIGH NUMBER" OR "LOW NUMBER".
Thanks, that is what I thought you were referring to. I did not know the WWII rebuilds mixed bolts, though. The one at Jackson looks like a good bolt, based on the handle bend, though it is easy enough to buy a known-good bolt to put in there. They also have an apparently original Rock Island 1903 for a suspiciously low price.
It hurts that Texas gets mentioned three times in this article and Florida doesn't even get mentioned once. We're gun crazy too; and just plain crazy as well. :(
QuoteThis political primary season has seen an unprecedented use of guns to get votes. Republican hopefuls across the country are appearing in political ads firing guns and holding political events around firearms.
Texas state Sen. Donna Campbell won the Republican nomination in her party. In one of her ads, she's seen firing a gun at a target as a narrator lauds her for reducing "the time it takes to obtain a concealed carry license, so more law-abiding Texans could exercise their constitutional rights to defend themselves."
In another, candidate Matt Rosendale shoots a rifle at an imaginary government drone — though it did not help him snatch the nomination for a Montana congressional seat.
And in a now-classic ad, Will Brooke, a candidate for Alabama's 6th Congressional District, sets up a 1-foot-thick copy of the Affordable Care Act for target practice. Then he starts blasting away.
"We're down here to have a little fun today and talk about two serious subjects — the Second Amendment and see how much damage we can do to this copy of Obamacare," he says.
Though Brooke did considerable damage to a publication from the Government Printing Office, he lost the Republican primary.
Guns are powerful political symbols this year because the gun rights crowd is on high alert. After mass shootings in the past two years in Newtown, Conn., and Aurora, Colo., they believe the Obama administration wants to come for their guns. Conservative candidates have piled on.
In Texas, GOP Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst — who ran for renomination and lost — had a poster with the phrase "Come and take it" superimposed on a rifle.
Even Wendy Davis, the liberal Democrat running for governor of Texas, had to come out and say she's for open carry of handguns.
"Candidates respond to public opinion, and when that's one of the questions they get asked a lot — 'Where do you stand on the Second Amendment?' — then they're gonna tend to get the point that not only are guns not a liability, but they actually can be a plus," says Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America.
Candidates have raffled off weapons as a campaign gimmick in local, state and national races.
And the shooting range is becoming the new country club for some Republicans. Former New Mexico Republican Party chairman Allen Weh is running for the U.S. Senate. His press secretary, Paige McKenzie, said they held a fundraiser at a shooting range in Albuquerque to stress the difference between Weh and the incumbent, Democratic Sen. Tom Udall, on gun rights.
"Since Allen is a retired Marine colonel, we thought that this would be a fun and unique event for supporters to come out and shoot with the colonel," McKenzie says.
So what's going on here?
"Firearms are a very convenient shorthand in the Republican Party," says Robert Spitzer, a political scientist at the State University of New York in Cortland and author of five books on guns and politics in America.
It's not that every candidate who brandishes a firearm will become a crusader for gun rights if elected, Spitzer says. It's symbolic language.
"Having a gun in an advertisement is a way to summarize your opposition to the Democrats, to Barack Obama, your suspicion of big government, your valuing of individualism, and it also expresses a kind of sense of power that is very appealing to base voters in the Republican Party," Spitzer says.
Now that the political primary season is mostly over, it remains to be seen whether candidates will use hi-caliber firepower in the general election, where mainstream voters may not be as impressed by belligerent imagery.
I like the part about Wendy Davis "Having" to say she was in favor of open carry; as if she has no choice in the matter at all.
QuoteTHE UNITED STATES ARMY GENERALLY DID NOT SERIALIZE BOLTS.
Zee Germans sure as shit did. Bolts and Jews.
Quote from: Savonarola on June 30, 2014, 09:02:53 AM
I like the part about Wendy Davis "Having" to say she was in favor of open carry; as if she has no choice in the matter at all.
I am pretty sure Wendy Davis actually is in favor of open carry. How else to defend abortion clinics and their patients from the army of evil? Seriously though she came out passionately in support of it early on, on her own volition. It was not like entering into the general election she is trying to appease anybody, she did this before the primary had even really gotten going.
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2014, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 30, 2014, 09:02:53 AM
I like the part about Wendy Davis "Having" to say she was in favor of open carry; as if she has no choice in the matter at all.
I am pretty sure Wendy Davis actually is in favor of open carry. How else to defend abortion clinics and their patients from the army of evil? Seriously though she came out passionately in support of it early on, on her own volition. It was not like entering into the general election she is trying to appease anybody, she did this before the primary had even really gotten going.
I think this article is playing to the assumption that "Democrat == guns BAD", and thus Davis' position is pandering to the electorate. There are a significant number of Democrats in Texas who genuinely support the state's looser gun laws.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2014, 09:05:16 AM
QuoteTHE UNITED STATES ARMY GENERALLY DID NOT SERIALIZE BOLTS.
Zee Germans sure as shit did. Bolts and Jews.
Is that anything like Chutes and Ladders? :lol:
Lulz, "Ovens & Showers", oops
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2014, 11:58:34 AM
Lulz, "Ovens & Showers", oops
With "Bolts and Jews" as your base game and "Ovens and Showers" as the add-on, you have a winner. Start a game page on BGG and CSW.... :lol:
http://news.yahoo.com/us-retailer-target-asks-customers-not-bring-guns-155908683.html
QuoteGiant US retailer Target -- the store with the bull's-eye as a logo -- says it does not want customers running around its shops carrying guns, even if it is legal.
Target announced Wednesday it would "respectfully request" shoppers not to bring firearms into its stores, "to create an atmosphere that is safe and inviting for our guests and team members."
With 44 of the 50 US states permitting people to openly carry handguns day-to-day, interim chief executive John Mulligan said in a statement that Target, which has nearly 1,800 stores in the United States, seeks to adhere to local regulations.
"But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target -- even in communities where it is permitted by law."
"We've listened carefully to the nuances of this debate and respect the protected rights of everyone involved," he said.
"This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create."
The move made Target the country's largest retailer to attempt to ban guns. It did not say how it would deal with shoppers legally carrying handguns who want to enter a store.
But it comes amid a surge in concern over the availability of handguns across the country -- as well backlash from those supporting looser gun laws -- after a number of mass shootings in public areas.
Non-issue, as all issues involving guns are.
Besides, Dumbfuckistanis who pack probably go to Wal-Mart anyway.
Thinking of open-carrying my Mosin Nagant M44 this weekend to celebrate mah freedoms. What do you guys think-- bayonet out or retracted?
Definitely out. That way, when you accidentally shoot your dumb ass by accident, you can follow it up with a sharps wound.
:rolleyes: I'll only be shooting up in the air.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 02, 2014, 11:47:59 AM
Non-issue, as all issues involving guns are.
Besides, Dumbfuckistanis who pack probably go to Wal-Mart anyway.
They came out with this policy just about a month after this happened:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motherjones.com%2Ffiles%2Ftarget-1-630.jpg&hash=76ae66dd147564e8867d66af164ff27348ff0e0a)
Looks like Kid Rock's brother.
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2014, 11:51:06 AM
Thinking of open-carrying my Mosin Nagant M44 this weekend to celebrate mah freedoms. What do you guys think-- bayonet out or retracted?
Ugh.
:rolleyes: Like I'd really do that.
I'm more of a Mauser open carry man anyway.
I don't even own a regular holster, as I don't see the point in open carrying (on the very rare occasions when I carry at all). MAH ELEMENT OF SURPRISE
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2014, 12:15:53 PM
They came out with this policy just about a month after this happened:
*pic of morons*
Now see, that's not exercising your 2nd Amendment rights--that's exceeding your constitutional authority to be a complete and total fucking moron.
The thing about America is that, in our great society, we don't roll like that is
because we don't have to. We don't have to worry about watching our asses taking the kids to school because of settlements, or worry about some other neighboring tribe deciding that today is the day to go all ethnic cleansing on us, rebels crossing the border to shoot shit up, or worry about another religion's zealots boating in and shooting up our favorite resorts. This isn't the West Bank, Rwanda, or India. The ability--the privilege--to
not have walk around like that isn't un-American, it's completely American.
There's exercising your 2nd amendment rights, and then there's what Skeeter, Uncle Cletus and the rest of the 12th Creepy Ass Cracker Vol. Inf. (Derspiess' Brigade, "The Fightin' Fetuses") are doing, carrying the issue to a wholly illogical and psychotic extreme for the simple sake of extremism. I do not see a single negro, Jew, union member, immigrant of non-European origin, Bangladeshi UN peacekeeper, federal employee or any other individual in that photo that presents a clear and present danger to those idiots to the point that long arms are necessary to pick up some Oreos on their way to take back America from wherever the fuck they think it went. And they're not even Double Stuf. Jesus H. Christ.
What about the brown guy looking at kids toys? Is that enough of a clear and present danger?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frack.0.mshcdn.com%2Fmedia%2FZgkyMDE0LzA2LzA1L2NmL09wZW5DYXJyeWluLjliZGJlLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4%2F9b48b49e%2F428%2FOpen-Carry-in-Target.jpg&hash=dbcb34c5e32a6743af0b452bf14c4a5e570e72ad)
Obviously just tanned. False positive.
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2014, 07:23:03 PM
:rolleyes: Like I'd really do that.
I'm more of a Mauser open carry man anyway.
Better.
I'd like to see the reaction of folks if I carry my SKS openly. Not the reaction of 10 cops blasting me to hell.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 02, 2014, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2014, 12:15:53 PM
They came out with this policy just about a month after this happened:
*pic of morons*
Now see, that's not exercising your 2nd Amendment rights--that's exceeding your constitutional authority to be a complete and total fucking moron.
The thing about America is that, in our great society, we don't roll like that is because we don't have to. We don't have to worry about watching our asses taking the kids to school because of settlements, or worry about some other neighboring tribe deciding that today is the day to go all ethnic cleansing on us, rebels crossing the border to shoot shit up, or worry about another religion's zealots boating in and shooting up our favorite resorts. This isn't the West Bank, Rwanda, or India. The ability--the privilege--to not have walk around like that isn't un-American, it's completely American.
There's exercising your 2nd amendment rights, and then there's what Skeeter, Uncle Cletus and the rest of the 12th Creepy Ass Cracker Vol. Inf. (Derspiess' Brigade, "The Fightin' Fetuses") are doing, carrying the issue to a wholly illogical and psychotic extreme for the simple sake of extremism. I do not see a single negro, Jew, union member, immigrant of non-European origin, Bangladeshi UN peacekeeper, federal employee or any other individual in that photo that presents a clear and present danger to those idiots to the point that long arms are necessary to pick up some Oreos on their way to take back America from wherever the fuck they think it went. And they're not even Double Stuf. Jesus H. Christ.
Even though seedy is on to something here.
Also, in (unarmed) defense of America, I will point out that the one guy is wearing a Toronto Raptors hat. These could be Canadians. If they aren't, front running the Toronto Raptors of all teams shows their idiocy extends beyond guns and general Wal Mart clientele. Also, look how interested the guy is reading the Oreo box. He is also posing with the Oreo box. A security guard sniping this guy would be justified on the grounds of putting someone out of his misery.
He could be wanting to make cookies and cream ice cream, the ice cream of kings and emperors.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 02, 2014, 08:46:59 PM
Obviously just tanned. False positive.
The guy on the far left has just been tanning? :unsure:
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2014, 09:30:14 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 02, 2014, 08:46:59 PM
Obviously just tanned. False positive.
The guy on the far left has just been tanning? :unsure:
I don't see skin color.
Tarrant County? The Metroplex really is a hive of scum and villainy.
Quote from: Valmy on July 03, 2014, 09:24:03 AM
Tarrant County? The Metroplex really is a hive of scum and villainy.
Funny around here the Tarrants are some rather expensive country villages; few locals could ever afford to move there.
Quote from: Valmy on July 03, 2014, 09:24:03 AM
Tarrant County? The Metroplex really is a hive of scum and villainy.
Yeah, I shoulda figured it was those nutters.
Natural selection at work. :P
QuoteGuy Kills Buddy Wearing Bulletproof Vest
(Newser) – Ready, aim—shoot and kill a friend who's wearing a bullet-proof vest. Police say that very tragedy unfolded in Baltimore on Wednesday when Mark Ramiro, 30, shot Darnell Mitchell, 28, with a .22-caliber bullet, Reuters reports. A third friend apparently recorded Mitchell on video boasting that he was going to take a "deuce deuce in the chest" to test his bulletproof vest. But Ramiro aimed too high, the video ended, and Mitchell was later pronounced dead at a hospital. Ramiro now faces first- and second-degree murder along with two gun charges, the Baltimore Sun reports. Why first-degree? A veteran defense attorney told WBAL-TV that he questioned the charge, but added, "Premeditation—this computer (points toward the brain) works very rapidly. Premeditation can happen in a split, split second."
http://www.newser.com/story/191196/buddy-kills-guy-wearing-bulletproof-vest.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=united&utm_campaign=rss_topnews
You're late to heeling, Quick Draw McGraw. Already posted in the OTT.
It doesnt belong there..... Mod. Neither does this.
Quote
Judge Strikes Down DC Handgun Ban
Says ban on guns outside the home violates Second Amendment
(Newser) – The District of Columbia's ban on carrying handguns outside the home is unconstitutional, a federal judge has ruled. In a 19-page ruling made public yesterday, US District Judge Frederick J. Scullin concluded that the Second Amendment gives people the right to carry a gun outside the home for self-defense. The lawsuit challenging the city's ban on carrying handguns outside the home was filed in 2009, shortly after the city rewrote its gun laws following a landmark Supreme Court decision that struck down the city's 32-year-old ban on handguns in 2008.
New rules allowed residents to keep guns in their homes but required that they be registered. Gun owners now have to take a safety class, be photographed and fingerprinted, and re-register their weapons every three years. In finding the city's ban unconstitutional, Scullin cited two Supreme Court cases, including the 2008 case that struck down the city's handgun ban and a 2010 case involving Chicago's handgun ban. Scullin wrote that "there is no longer any basis on which this court can conclude that the District of Columbia's total ban on the public carrying of ready-to-use handguns outside the home is constitutional under any level of scrutiny." A spokesman for the Office of the Attorney General for the District of Columbia, which defended the city's ban, said the city is studying its options. Those include appealing the judge's ruling but also asking the judge to stop his ruling from going into effect during any appeal.
http://www.newser.com/story/191567/judge-strikes-down-dc-handgun-ban.html
I think the U.S. missed their opportunity to have some semblance of sensible gun control. IMHO it would make sense to have a regimen similar to getting a diver's license. Have a curriculum, plus a test that covers your knowledge of technical, legal and safety topics and a basic practical test.
Considering the quality of drivers around here, I don't think such a regime would do much. :P
Quote from: Syt on July 27, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
I think the U.S. missed their opportunity to have some semblance of sensible gun control. IMHO it would make sense to have a regimen similar to getting a diver's license. Have a curriculum, plus a test that covers your knowledge of technical, legal and safety topics and a basic practical test.
That works for Germany, and I'm sure that scratches that itch to have some sort of licensing regime in place along with the requisite bureaucracy :P
But over here the concern is that such a system might be used to unfairly deny people their 2nd amendment rights. Sort of like the poll taxes, literacy tests, etc. were used to deny voting rights.
I'll admit it sounds reasonable in theory, though.
I assume the Germans have everything in triplicate, with all appropriate stamps and seals.
Well, in Germany, in order to get a hunting rifle, you'll need a hunting license which involves an exam about wildlife, proper handling of guns, wildlife preservation and also how to properly gut an animal (similar for fishing, btw). Though I don't think I've ever heard of anyone failing such tests. :P
From the TSA Instagram account:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-e.ak.instagram.com%2Fhphotos-ak-xpa1%2F10549652_703410666380972_930629574_n.jpg&hash=f9d3bb38b2c44ba2e4b00465d753196ea51078bf)
QuoteThese are just a few of the firearms discovered in carry-on bags this month. So far, over 1,100 firearms have been discovered in carry-on bags this year, the majority of them loaded. Left to right, top to bottom, the firearms were discovered at Atlanta, Cincinnati, Austin, Baltimore, Wichita, Sacramento, Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas.
http://instagram.com/tsa
Luluzi, adios, dickhead. Too bad the parents weren't in the line of fire, too.
Quote9-Year-Old Girl Accidently Shoots, Kills Instructor at Gun Range
Aug. 26, 2014
A nine-year-old girl accidentally shot and killed a shooting range instructor in Arizona, police say.
Charles Vacca, 39, was instructing the girl on how to use an automatic Uzi on Monday when the girl, who was accompanied by her parents, pulled the trigger and then lost control of the weapon, the Mohave County Sheriff's Office said in a statement Tuesday. Vacca was shot in the head and died of his injuries.
Sam Scarmardo, the operator of the shooting range Last Stop where the accident occurred, said the range allows accompanied children age eight and older to handle weapons.
He said Vacca, a longtime military veteran, had been working at the range for roughly two years. Scarmardo also said the range had not had an accident since it was opened more than a decade ago.
The girl's parents were recording the tutorial on their cell phones when the incident occurred and handed the footage over to authorities, according to Scarmardo.
Here's the video of the incident, clipped right before we go full auto
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arizona-shooting-range-instructor-killed-girl-uzi-n189611
So the firearms instructor is dead, and died doing what he loved, so don't sweat him; it's a 9 year old girl has to live with this all her life, somebody that should be worried more about Disney princesses, stickers and a pony instead of a fully automatic 9mm carbine that was standard issue for the Israeli Defense Force.
Psyche: permanently trashed. Might as well start the cutting, eating disorders and get fitted for the clear heels now. Way to go, Mom and Dad. Way to go, Arizona. Way to go, gun nuts. :thumbsup: :yeah:
Reminds me of the live fire exercise in Starship Troopers. MEDIC!
Hey don't knock it, a day may come when the US might need those child solders. :P
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/gun-deaths-versus-car-deaths/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
Quote[...]
A report out on Tuesday from the Violence Policy Center confirms yet again the lunacy of America's loose gun policies.
The report contains the striking finding that gun deaths exceeded motor vehicle deaths in 14 states and the District of Columbia in 2011, the latest year for which the relevant data are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That's up from 12 states in 2010 and 9 states in 2009.
The 2011 states are Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Washington State, as well as the District of Columbia.
In Alaska, for example, there were 126 gun deaths and 87 motor vehicle deaths. The numbers in Ohio were 1,227 gun deaths and 1,178 motor vehicle deaths.
Nationwide, the number of motor vehicle deaths still exceeded gun deaths: 35,543 to 32,351. But consider that in 2009 the spread was much larger – 42,624 motor vehicles deaths nationwide and 28,874 gun deaths.
[...]
If gun deaths exceed car deaths in some states then it must mean that cars and driving are overregulated. Let's remove the requirement for licenses and age limits. Let everyone drive whenever and however they want. It's a citizen's right, no? :P
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2014, 07:57:57 AM
If gun deaths exceed car deaths in some states then it must mean that cars and driving are overregulated. Let's remove the requirement for licenses and age limits. Let everyone drive whenever and however they want. It's a citizen's right, no? :P
[autonut]
The proper terminology is not "car", but "motor vehicle". :rolleyes:
I SUPPORT THE AAA
[/autonut]
Quote from: Syt on July 27, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
I think the U.S. missed their opportunity to have some semblance of sensible gun control. IMHO it would make sense to have a regimen similar to getting a diver's license. Have a curriculum, plus a test that covers your knowledge of technical, legal and safety topics and a basic practical test.
I am not sure I would say we "missed an opportunity". The reality is that the gun nuts have won, and the way they won is kind of amazing.
Over the last several decades they've effectively invented a "right" that never existed prior to that, and they've done so through the court of public opinion. It is a impressive example of how if you repeat something often enough, it can become "pravda", even for the Supreme Court.
Every Americun has a right to own their guns, and corporations are people. Go USSC!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 27, 2014, 07:24:57 AM
Here's the video of the incident, clipped right before we go full auto
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arizona-shooting-range-instructor-killed-girl-uzi-n189611
So the firearms instructor is dead, and died doing what he loved, so don't sweat him; it's a 9 year old girl has to live with this all her life, somebody that should be worried more about Disney princesses, stickers and a pony instead of a fully automatic 9mm carbine that was standard issue for the Israeli Defense Force.
Psyche: permanently trashed. Might as well start the cutting, eating disorders and get fitted for the clear heels now. Way to go, Mom and Dad. Way to go, Arizona. Way to go, gun nuts. :thumbsup: :yeah:
Another aspect of that tragedy is that she'll probably be too scarred to ever get trained on the proper use of fully automatic guns again.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 08:03:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 27, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
I think the U.S. missed their opportunity to have some semblance of sensible gun control. IMHO it would make sense to have a regimen similar to getting a diver's license. Have a curriculum, plus a test that covers your knowledge of technical, legal and safety topics and a basic practical test.
I am not sure I would say we "missed an opportunity". The reality is that the gun nuts have won, and the way they won is kind of amazing.
Over the last several decades they've effectively invented a "right" that never existed prior to that, and they've done so through the court of public opinion. It is a impressive example of how if you repeat something often enough, it can become "pravda", even for the Supreme Court.
Every Americun has a right to own their guns, and corporations are people. Go USSC!
Funny, I didn't know the 2nd Amendment was that new.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2014, 08:34:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 08:03:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 27, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
I think the U.S. missed their opportunity to have some semblance of sensible gun control. IMHO it would make sense to have a regimen similar to getting a diver's license. Have a curriculum, plus a test that covers your knowledge of technical, legal and safety topics and a basic practical test.
I am not sure I would say we "missed an opportunity". The reality is that the gun nuts have won, and the way they won is kind of amazing.
Over the last several decades they've effectively invented a "right" that never existed prior to that, and they've done so through the court of public opinion. It is a impressive example of how if you repeat something often enough, it can become "pravda", even for the Supreme Court.
Every Americun has a right to own their guns, and corporations are people. Go USSC!
Funny, I didn't know the 2nd Amendment was that new.
The "interpretation" of it that would allow a judge to strike down controls on handguns certainly is...which is pretty easy to note considering that bans like that have been around in one form or another since the 2nd was ratified.
This is why you teach them bolt action rifles first.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 27, 2014, 08:57:18 AM
This is why you teach them bolt action rifles first.
Taking is slow has a price as well. What if the girl were attacked by a whole group of bullies at school next week? In such a situation, the difference between an automatic weapon and a bolt-action rifle can be the difference between life and death.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 08:03:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 27, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
I think the U.S. missed their opportunity to have some semblance of sensible gun control. IMHO it would make sense to have a regimen similar to getting a diver's license. Have a curriculum, plus a test that covers your knowledge of technical, legal and safety topics and a basic practical test.
I am not sure I would say we "missed an opportunity". The reality is that the gun nuts have won, and the way they won is kind of amazing.
Over the last several decades they've effectively invented a "right" that never existed prior to that, and they've done so through the court of public opinion. It is a impressive example of how if you repeat something often enough, it can become "pravda", even for the Supreme Court.
Every Americun has a right to own their guns, and corporations are people. Go USSC!
What is also striking is how the gun nuts have actually consolidated their position in the aftermath of shooting tragedies on successive occasions. Truly a masterclass in crisis communications strategies. :wacko:
Quote from: DGuller on August 27, 2014, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 27, 2014, 08:57:18 AM
This is why you teach them bolt action rifles first.
Taking is slow has a price as well. What if the girl were attacked by a whole group of bullies at school next week? In such a situation, the difference between an automatic weapon and a bolt-action rifle can be the difference between life and death.
Calm down there Yakov. If the Brits can put down Fuzzy Wuzzys with single shot rifles, a damn American 9 year old can too.
Quote from: Warspite on August 27, 2014, 09:03:42 AM
What is also striking is how the gun nuts have actually consolidated their position in the aftermath of shooting tragedies on successive occasions. Truly a masterclass in crisis communications strategies. :wacko:
There have been victories in some places and defeats in others. Result is that the pro-gun states are more pro-gun than before and the anti-gun states are more anti-gun than before.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 08:39:23 AM
The "interpretation" of it that would allow a judge to strike down controls on handguns certainly is...which is pretty easy to note considering that bans like that have been around in one form or another since the 2nd was ratified.
Gun control is hardly alone in this respect. But for some reason, when the results favor your side, you don't seem to object so much. :P
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
And my position is based on a objective desire to see the Constitution upheld and the rights of individuals protected, rather than a infantile fascination with guns and the NRA.
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2014, 07:57:57 AM
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/gun-deaths-versus-car-deaths/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
Quote[...]
A report out on Tuesday from the Violence Policy Center confirms yet again the lunacy of America's loose gun policies.
The report contains the striking finding that gun deaths exceeded motor vehicle deaths in 14 states and the District of Columbia in 2011, the latest year for which the relevant data are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That's up from 12 states in 2010 and 9 states in 2009.
The 2011 states are Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Washington State, as well as the District of Columbia.
In Alaska, for example, there were 126 gun deaths and 87 motor vehicle deaths. The numbers in Ohio were 1,227 gun deaths and 1,178 motor vehicle deaths.
Nationwide, the number of motor vehicle deaths still exceeded gun deaths: 35,543 to 32,351. But consider that in 2009 the spread was much larger – 42,624 motor vehicles deaths nationwide and 28,874 gun deaths.
[...]
If gun deaths exceed car deaths in some states then it must mean that cars and driving are overregulated. Let's remove the requirement for licenses and age limits. Let everyone drive whenever and however they want. It's a citizen's right, no? :P
I want to focus on the last paragraph of the article, since I am posting to bitch about their numbers.
QuoteYet, as Ms. Rand points out, there is overwhelming evidence linking firearm accessibility to suicide, and showing that people who attempt suicide with a firearm are much more likely to succeed at killing themselves. Since most people who attempt suicide and fail don't try again, the means used on the first try is rather critical.
I have a strong philosophical problem with this[1]. I do not believe gun control is a proper response to firearm suicides. Yes, removing tools for suicide will reduce the number of successful attempts. It will not remove the underlying problems that triggered the person to seek out a means of ending their life in the first place. To view pushing such a person from a more effective means, such as a handgun, to a less effective means, like an intentional overdose, as a victory is fucking disgusting. The absolute priority in suicide prevention should be preventing that first attempt. You don't do that by simply removing tools.
Anticipating rebuttal:
Yes, removing tools for suicide in concert with treating the underlying problems is effective. However, such is not being done currently, and many fewer people are talking about such programs as a means of stopping people from blowing their brains out as opposed to simply taking away their guns and allowing them to wallow in misery. Also, I am philosophically opposed from society taking measures to protect people from themselves. I acknowledge that people harming themselves has ripple effects to others. Ultimately, though, the choice rests with the person directly affected. Additionally, due to the first point above I don't think most gun control advocates really give a shit about suicidal people beyond the nice padding they add to the numbers for reports like the referenced one. Yes, that is rather bitter and cynical, but it is my view.
[1] It actually extends to the larger problem of how we as a society handle mental disorders, but I don't want to get on that full tangent right now.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
And my position is based on a objective desire to see the Constitution upheld and the rights of individuals protected, rather than a infantile fascination with guns and the NRA.
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on August 27, 2014, 10:57:18 AM
I have a strong philosophical problem with this[1]. I do not believe gun control is a proper response to firearm suicides. Yes, removing tools for suicide will reduce the number of successful attempts. It will not remove the underlying problems that triggered the person to seek out a means of ending their life in the first place. To view pushing such a person from a more effective means, such as a handgun, to a less effective means, like an intentional overdose, as a victory is fucking disgusting. The absolute priority in suicide prevention should be preventing that first attempt. You don't do that by simply removing tools.
Anticipating rebuttal:
Yes, removing tools for suicide in concert with treating the underlying problems is effective. However, such is not being done currently, and many fewer people are talking about such programs as a means of stopping people from blowing their brains out as opposed to simply taking away their guns and allowing them to wallow in misery. Also, I am philosophically opposed from society taking measures to protect people from themselves. I acknowledge that people harming themselves has ripple effects to others. Ultimately, though, the choice rests with the person directly affected. Additionally, due to the first point above I don't think most gun control advocates really give a shit about suicidal people beyond the nice padding they add to the numbers for reports like the referenced one. Yes, that is rather bitter and cynical, but it is my view.
[1] It actually extends to the larger problem of how we as a society handle mental disorders, but I don't want to get on that full tangent right now.
People thinking about suicide don't have big flashing light on top of their heads. We never know what someone is thinking unless they talk about it, or act on it.
Reducing the lethality of suicide attempts is absolutely a valid public policy goal. Studies show that most people who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to further attempts. And once someone attempts and fails we can intervene more directly to treat the underlying mental health issue.
Here in Edmonton they're spending a million bucks or so to make one of the bridges in town less accessible to suicide jumpers, and I understand San Francisco is doing something similar for the Golden Gate bridge. So people who want to kill themselves by jumping off a bridge will have to find a lower, less lethal bridge to do it from. Which sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
What everyone seems to forget, on this and many other issues, is that the Constitution is a living document. Don't like what it says? Write up and amendment and start campaigning to pass it. Ever since the New Deal era and the resulting court decisions, however, the debate has become about interpreting the document like it was set in stone from on high.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on August 27, 2014, 10:57:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2014, 07:57:57 AM
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/gun-deaths-versus-car-deaths/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
Quote[...]
A report out on Tuesday from the Violence Policy Center confirms yet again the lunacy of America's loose gun policies.
The report contains the striking finding that gun deaths exceeded motor vehicle deaths in 14 states and the District of Columbia in 2011, the latest year for which the relevant data are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That's up from 12 states in 2010 and 9 states in 2009.
The 2011 states are Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Washington State, as well as the District of Columbia.
In Alaska, for example, there were 126 gun deaths and 87 motor vehicle deaths. The numbers in Ohio were 1,227 gun deaths and 1,178 motor vehicle deaths.
Nationwide, the number of motor vehicle deaths still exceeded gun deaths: 35,543 to 32,351. But consider that in 2009 the spread was much larger – 42,624 motor vehicles deaths nationwide and 28,874 gun deaths.
[...]
If gun deaths exceed car deaths in some states then it must mean that cars and driving are overregulated. Let's remove the requirement for licenses and age limits. Let everyone drive whenever and however they want. It's a citizen's right, no? :P
I want to focus on the last paragraph of the article, since I am posting to bitch about their numbers.
QuoteYet, as Ms. Rand points out, there is overwhelming evidence linking firearm accessibility to suicide, and showing that people who attempt suicide with a firearm are much more likely to succeed at killing themselves. Since most people who attempt suicide and fail don't try again, the means used on the first try is rather critical.
I have a strong philosophical problem with this[1]. I do not believe gun control is a proper response to firearm suicides. Yes, removing tools for suicide will reduce the number of successful attempts. It will not remove the underlying problems that triggered the person to seek out a means of ending their life in the first place. To view pushing such a person from a more effective means, such as a handgun, to a less effective means, like an intentional overdose, as a victory is fucking disgusting. The absolute priority in suicide prevention should be preventing that first attempt. You don't do that by simply removing tools.
Anticipating rebuttal:
Yes, removing tools for suicide in concert with treating the underlying problems is effective. However, such is not being done currently, and many fewer people are talking about such programs as a means of stopping people from blowing their brains out as opposed to simply taking away their guns and allowing them to wallow in misery. Also, I am philosophically opposed from society taking measures to protect people from themselves. I acknowledge that people harming themselves has ripple effects to others. Ultimately, though, the choice rests with the person directly affected. Additionally, due to the first point above I don't think most gun control advocates really give a shit about suicidal people beyond the nice padding they add to the numbers for reports like the referenced one. Yes, that is rather bitter and cynical, but it is my view.
[1] It actually extends to the larger problem of how we as a society handle mental disorders, but I don't want to get on that full tangent right now.
Depends on how one views suicide.
No, removing handguns will not stop a person determined to kill themselves. Lord knows some people have serious reasons to do so - like finding they have an incurable disease that will kill them in excrutiating pain. However, it will stop some of those who do so on an impulse in a moment of bleakness. Make it more difficult to off someone in a moment, and you make it less likely that a momentary impulse will lead to death.
This is similar to the reason why removing guns from any potentially volatile situation is a good idea. A drunken bar fight that is fought with fists and bottles would generally end with stitches; make everyone armed, and it is far more likely to end in deaths.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
The only person here calling them toys is you.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on August 27, 2014, 11:06:08 AM
What everyone seems to forget, on this and many other issues, is that the Constitution is a living document. Don't like what it says? Write up and amendment and start campaigning to pass it. Ever since the New Deal era and the resulting court decisions, however, the debate has become about interpreting the document like it was set in stone from on high.
It is very hard to pass amendments, in part because people think of it like it was set in stone from on high, and in part because it is a difficult process.
It is much easier to just appoint judges that will interpret the constitution how you want.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
And my position is based on a objective desire to see the Constitution upheld and the rights of individuals protected, rather than a infantile fascination with guns and the NRA.
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
I am not arguing that we should take the mindset stated, I am arguing that the claim that the 2nd has always been about an individual right to tote around some defined class of firearm such that laws governing, restricting, or even banning particular classes of firearms being carried in public (or against background checks, or registration requirements, or whatever) is patently false.
That is the great lie that the NRA has so successfully sold - that nothing has changed, and in fact throwing out things like the DC handgun restrictions is a *return* to the intent of those who wrote the second.
That is patently and objectively untrue, as anyone who cares to take a small amount of time to look at the history of gun control legislation can see very easily.
The NRA did not stand up and say "In the modern world, the intent of the founders must be re-interpretated such that it is reasonable for the courts to strike down nearly any kind of control on the posession of firearms (which is our basic position)".
My problem with the modern interpretation of the 2nd is not so much that I am opposed to or in favor of more or less restrictions on guns in the particular. I think Georgia's position is fine - I think New York's positions is fine. I think Florida is fucking insane.
What I don't like about the modern interpretation of the 2nd is that it demands that everyone share the same stance on what is reasonable control of guns, and that stance is one held by the most radical of society - that New York is NOT fine, and they should be forced to be like Florida. It is NOT ok for Washington D.C. to have their own views on what the people there, via their elected representatives, want in regards to gun control, they have to go along with the "all gun control is EVIL" stance of the NRA.
The "old" interpretation I think did a perfectly good job of protecting the basic right while leaving local areas free to make their own choices about what is reasonable and workable for them. The "new" interpretation looks like it is moving towards a one size fits all view that
A) Most Americans don't actually want, and
B) Pretty clearly, IMO, contributes to a serious problem with gun violence in America.
You can, of course, reasonable disagree with B. But that disagreement ought to, IMO, be resolved in the court of public opinion and through our nominally representative democracy. Not by the most extreme element defining their way to victory via an invented fundamental right.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on August 27, 2014, 11:06:08 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
What everyone seems to forget, on this and many other issues, is that the Constitution is a living document. Don't like what it says? Write up and amendment and start campaigning to pass it. Ever since the New Deal era and the resulting court decisions, however, the debate has become about interpreting the document like it was set in stone from on high.
That is a lot of trouble.
Much easier to engage in a propaganda campaign culminating in a SC decision to simply define your new amendment as being the old amendment all along.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2014, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
The only person here calling them toys is you.
You guys have been calling them toys for 100 pages now, going on and on about your latest and what accessories you are going to get for it, etc., etc.
Which, btw, is fine - I don't think it is a bad thing to have a hobby, and firearms collecting is pretty cool, and frankly, guns themselves are pretty cool - I can understand the attraction completely.
But they are most certainly toys in every sense of the word.
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2014, 11:04:30 AM
People thinking about suicide don't have big flashing light on top of their heads. We never know what someone is thinking unless they talk about it, or act on it.
No shit. The objective should be to get them to talk about it. Very few people go from fine to suicidal in a short period of time. Yes, they may
look fine, but those people are just very good at hiding it. Getting those people to ask for help should be the goal.
QuoteReducing the lethality of suicide attempts is absolutely a valid public policy goal. Studies show that most people who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to further attempts. And once someone attempts and fails we can intervene more directly to treat the underlying mental health issue.
From the tone of this and the preceding paragraph, you seem to think the action in dealing with the suicidal person should come from the outside and be imposed on them. I don't agree with that in the case of suicide. Suicide often comes up because people either have no one to turn to or feel that those they have tried to turn to either have not listened or have not taken them seriously. They typically do not want or need an "intervention"; they
want someone to help them, but either do not know who or how to ask, or feel ashamed of needing to do so. Persisting in the intervention mindset is making this problem worse, not better.
QuoteHere in Edmonton they're spending a million bucks or so to make one of the bridges in town less accessible to suicide jumpers, and I understand San Francisco is doing something similar for the Golden Gate bridge. So people who want to kill themselves by jumping off a bridge will have to find a lower, less lethal bridge to do it from. Which sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Great, so instead of jumping off a high bridge and dying, they jump off a medium bridge and end up permanently paralyzed from the waist down. But at least they're alive and getting treatment!
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 11:15:55 AM
You guys have been calling them toys for 100 pages now, going on and on about your latest and what accessories you are going to get for it, etc., etc.
No, we haven't. None of us have called them toys.
QuoteBut they are most certainly toys in every sense of the word.
Uh, no.
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
And my position is based on a objective desire to see the Constitution upheld and the rights of individuals protected, rather than a infantile fascination with guns and the NRA.
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
I am not arguing that we should take the mindset stated, I am arguing that the claim that the 2nd has always been about an individual right to tote around some defined class of firearm such that laws governing, restricting, or even banning particular classes of firearms being carried in public (or against background checks, or registration requirements, or whatever) is patently false.
That is the great lie that the NRA has so successfully sold - that nothing has changed, and in fact throwing out things like the DC handgun restrictions is a *return* to the intent of those who wrote the second.
That is patently and objectively untrue, as anyone who cares to take a small amount of time to look at the history of gun control legislation can see very easily.
The NRA did not stand up and say "In the modern world, the intent of the founders must be re-interpretated such that it is reasonable for the courts to strike down nearly any kind of control on the posession of firearms (which is our basic position)".
My problem with the modern interpretation of the 2nd is not so much that I am opposed to or in favor of more or less restrictions on guns in the particular. I think Georgia's position is fine - I think New York's positions is fine. I think Florida is fucking insane.
What I don't like about the modern interpretation of the 2nd is that it demands that everyone share the same stance on what is reasonable control of guns, and that stance is one held by the most radical of society - that New York is NOT fine, and they should be forced to be like Florida. It is NOT ok for Washington D.C. to have their own views on what the people there, via their elected representatives, want in regards to gun control, they have to go along with the "all gun control is EVIL" stance of the NRA.
The "old" interpretation I think did a perfectly good job of protecting the basic right while leaving local areas free to make their own choices about what is reasonable and workable for them. The "new" interpretation looks like it is moving towards a one size fits all view that
A) Most Americans don't actually want, and
B) Pretty clearly, IMO, contributes to a serious problem with gun violence in America.
You can, of course, reasonable disagree with B. But that disagreement ought to, IMO, be resolved in the court of public opinion and through our nominally representative democracy. Not by the most extreme element defining their way to victory via an invented fundamental right.
That isnt' the way the modern country works though. Major interest groups try to obtain victories through legal rulings in addition to other methods, and link their cause with basic rights. If the NRA didn't do this, they would probably be unique.
I don't own a gun, never want to own a gun, and don't know the laws associated with guns in Georgia and Florida. However, I'm skeptical the laws in Florida are all really more stupid than Georgia.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/26/3895027/big-pine-key-homeowner-has-gun.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/26/3895027/big-pine-key-homeowner-has-gun.html)
QuoteThe gun shop owner told him that there were "rumors" that you could. It didn't take Varrieur long to look up Florida statute 790.15, and he was surprised by what he found."I said to my wife: 'Do you know the only rules to discharging firearms on residential property are that you can't fire over a right-of-way of any paved public road, highway or street, you can't fire over any occupied dwelling and you can't fire recklessly or negligently?' " Varrieur said. "That's it."Until 2011, the statute didn't even include the part about firing "recklessly or negligently."
This is the part that gets REALLY nuts:Quote
Many municipalities in Florida used to have local laws banning the firing of guns in residential areas.
While the preemptive state law has been in place for almost three decades, many local governments ignored it and passed their own gun ordinances.
But in 2011, backed by the National Rifle Association, the Republican-led state Legislature put more teeth into the state law, creating penalties for local lawmakers who violate it. Gov. Rick Scott signed the law that now makes anyone who creates or upholds local gun ordinances subject to fines of up to $5,000. They also can be removed from office and forced to pay their own legal bills if sued over local gun ordinances.
Once the 2011 law took effect, Florida Carry, a nonprofit, gun-rights organization, began systematically going after any municipality that had not already put a bullet into its local gun ordinances.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2014, 11:06:13 AM
Depends on how one views suicide.
No, removing handguns will not stop a person determined to kill themselves. Lord knows some people have serious reasons to do so - like finding they have an incurable disease that will kill them in excrutiating pain. However, it will stop some of those who do so on an impulse in a moment of bleakness. Make it more difficult to off someone in a moment, and you make it less likely that a momentary impulse will lead to death.
This is similar to the reason why removing guns from any potentially volatile situation is a good idea. A drunken bar fight that is fought with fists and bottles would generally end with stitches; make everyone armed, and it is far more likely to end in deaths.
The "moment of bleakness" situation was going through my head as I was writing that. That is a hard thing to deal with, though as I was starting to indicate in my reply to Beeb I think the proper thing is to give people the tools to avoid getting to that precipice in the first place. I know that is easy to say and hard to do. I do not see much in the way of attempts to do so, though. Removing the means, at least the public means, is far easier and leads to an "out of sight, out of mind" situation that is worse for the potential suicide cases than simply letting them get it over with.
The bar fight analogy is apt, and I do think some restrictions are appropriate. Those restrictions need to be in the context of mental health treatment programs, though, not general gun control.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 11:21:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 27, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I don't have a "side" though - I have a position on an issue that isn't motivated almost completely by my fascination with shiny toys. SO yeah, when the results favor the position that I hold, I don't object. What a shocking thing.
And my position is based on a objective desire to see the Constitution upheld and the rights of individuals protected, rather than a infantile fascination with guns and the NRA.
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
I am not arguing that we should take the mindset stated, I am arguing that the claim that the 2nd has always been about an individual right to tote around some defined class of firearm such that laws governing, restricting, or even banning particular classes of firearms being carried in public (or against background checks, or registration requirements, or whatever) is patently false.
That is the great lie that the NRA has so successfully sold - that nothing has changed, and in fact throwing out things like the DC handgun restrictions is a *return* to the intent of those who wrote the second.
That is patently and objectively untrue, as anyone who cares to take a small amount of time to look at the history of gun control legislation can see very easily.
The NRA did not stand up and say "In the modern world, the intent of the founders must be re-interpretated such that it is reasonable for the courts to strike down nearly any kind of control on the posession of firearms (which is our basic position)".
My problem with the modern interpretation of the 2nd is not so much that I am opposed to or in favor of more or less restrictions on guns in the particular. I think Georgia's position is fine - I think New York's positions is fine. I think Florida is fucking insane.
What I don't like about the modern interpretation of the 2nd is that it demands that everyone share the same stance on what is reasonable control of guns, and that stance is one held by the most radical of society - that New York is NOT fine, and they should be forced to be like Florida. It is NOT ok for Washington D.C. to have their own views on what the people there, via their elected representatives, want in regards to gun control, they have to go along with the "all gun control is EVIL" stance of the NRA.
The "old" interpretation I think did a perfectly good job of protecting the basic right while leaving local areas free to make their own choices about what is reasonable and workable for them. The "new" interpretation looks like it is moving towards a one size fits all view that
A) Most Americans don't actually want, and
B) Pretty clearly, IMO, contributes to a serious problem with gun violence in America.
You can, of course, reasonable disagree with B. But that disagreement ought to, IMO, be resolved in the court of public opinion and through our nominally representative democracy. Not by the most extreme element defining their way to victory via an invented fundamental right.
That isnt' the way the modern country works though. Major interest groups try to obtain victories through legal rulings in addition to other methods, and link their cause with basic rights.
Of course - but that doesn't mean I have to be ok with the USSC falling for it, or think that it is an acceptable outcome.
Quote
If the NRA didn't do this, they would probably be unique.
No, they would just be a group that was about firearms and using them instead of a political organization dominated by radicals.
And to be fair, they managed just fine NOT being a radicalized political organization for a very, very long time.
Quote
I don't own a gun, never want to own a gun, and don't know the laws associated with guns in Georgia and Florida. However, I'm skeptical the laws in Florida are all really more stupid than Georgia.
I do own a gun, and think Florida's laws, and more broadly the culture around the NRA/gun nuts faction is fucking insane. Fully as crazy as any other fundamentalist group I can think of barring those running around cutting peoples head off.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on August 27, 2014, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2014, 11:04:30 AM
People thinking about suicide don't have big flashing light on top of their heads. We never know what someone is thinking unless they talk about it, or act on it.
No shit. The objective should be to get them to talk about it. Very few people go from fine to suicidal in a short period of time. Yes, they may look fine, but those people are just very good at hiding it. Getting those people to ask for help should be the goal.
QuoteReducing the lethality of suicide attempts is absolutely a valid public policy goal. Studies show that most people who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to further attempts. And once someone attempts and fails we can intervene more directly to treat the underlying mental health issue.
From the tone of this and the preceding paragraph, you seem to think the action in dealing with the suicidal person should come from the outside and be imposed on them. I don't agree with that in the case of suicide. Suicide often comes up because people either have no one to turn to or feel that those they have tried to turn to either have not listened or have not taken them seriously. They typically do not want or need an "intervention"; they want someone to help them, but either do not know who or how to ask, or feel ashamed of needing to do so. Persisting in the intervention mindset is making this problem worse, not better.
QuoteHere in Edmonton they're spending a million bucks or so to make one of the bridges in town less accessible to suicide jumpers, and I understand San Francisco is doing something similar for the Golden Gate bridge. So people who want to kill themselves by jumping off a bridge will have to find a lower, less lethal bridge to do it from. Which sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Great, so instead of jumping off a high bridge and dying, they jump off a medium bridge and end up permanently paralyzed from the waist down. But at least they're alive and getting treatment!
Don't make perfect the enemy of good.
Sure - getting people to talk about suicidal thoughts is great. But it's also freaking hard. Limiting access to handguns, in comparison, is easy (well in normal countries at least).
And yes, in appropriate cases people should have treatment imposed on them. I mean we already do this - if you make serious and credible threats about self-harm the police will come and lock you up in a psych ward. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that if you find a suicidal person you just give them a pamphlet and say 'feel free to call if you want' before walking away.
And yes - even in your contrived example, itis better the person is alive and disabled than dead. Plus, there's a better chance the person is alive and uninjured.
Guy was already suicidal and now alive and disabled? I'm not sure how that is better.
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2014, 11:48:42 AM
Plus, there's a better chance the person is alive and uninjured.
Also likely that they wouldn't a) necessarily think of jumping as it isn't an iconic bridge / bridge where their have been widely publicized jumpers and b) think it was good idea to jump off a bridge for fear that they would live in worse state than before.
edit: I think I had noted somewhere here about some studies that looked at suicides in cities being lower in places where main bridges had nets, etc.
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2014, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2014, 11:48:42 AM
Plus, there's a better chance the person is alive and uninjured.
Also likely that they wouldn't a) necessarily think of jumping as it isn't an iconic bridge / bridge where their have been widely publicized jumpers and b) think it was good idea to jump off a bridge for fear that they would live in worse state than before.
edit: I think I had noted somewhere here about some studies that looked at suicides in cities being lower in places where main bridges had nets, etc.
I was looking up the changes to Edmonton's (simply and accurately named) High Level Bridge. They do suggest that making suicide difficult, particularly in a location well known for suicides, does not simply move the problem somewhere else, though I would have liked some links.
Interesting read, if you have a few minutes:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/insight/Black+Nightmare+Edmonton+High+Level+Bridge+magnet/10122907/story.html
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 27, 2014, 07:24:57 AM
Here's the video of the incident, clipped right before we go full auto
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arizona-shooting-range-instructor-killed-girl-uzi-n189611
So the firearms instructor is dead, and died doing what he loved, so don't sweat him; it's a 9 year old girl has to live with this all her life, somebody that should be worried more about Disney princesses, stickers and a pony instead of a fully automatic 9mm carbine that was standard issue for the Israeli Defense Force.
Psyche: permanently trashed. Might as well start the cutting, eating disorders and get fitted for the clear heels now. Way to go, Mom and Dad. Way to go, Arizona. Way to go, gun nuts. :thumbsup: :yeah:
Too bad this didn't happen in Reno.
People commit suicide for a reason. Not just mental illness or whatever. Perfectly sane people do it. After a certain amount of abuse/circumstances/whatever, people really just get desperate and figure that's the best way to deal with it.
I think the best way to prevent it is to figure out how to give them options so they aren't backed into a corner. Creating even more structure and even more institutionalization and more rules is the exact opposite of that. It creates more walls with more corners for people to get backed into.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 27, 2014, 03:50:34 PM
People commit suicide for a reason. Not just mental illness or whatever. Perfectly sane people do it. After a certain amount of abuse/circumstances/whatever, people really just get desperate and figure that's the best way to deal with it.
Except in some sort of terminal illness case (or I guess severe though liveable pain), I'm not sure one can be truly sane and commit suicide.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 27, 2014, 03:50:34 PM
I think the best way to prevent it is to figure out how to give them options so they aren't backed into a corner. Creating even more structure and even more institutionalization and more rules is the exact opposite of that. It creates more walls with more corners for people to get backed into.
Can you provide an example? All of this sounds rather vague and not really a strong argument against building nets to prevent jumpers and/or forcing people to accept treatment.
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2014, 03:34:26 PM
Too bad this didn't happen in Reno.
Whaddya want from me, you know I post before 11am.
hey derfetus, here's a gun story everybody can love:
QuoteDad Acquitted of Murder of Drunk Driver Who Killed His Sons
A jury on Wednesday acquitted a southeast Texas man of murder in the fatal shooting of a drunken driver who had just caused an accident that killed the man's two sons.
David Barajas cried after the verdict was read and he hugged his wife, Cindy, who was also crying. He could have been sentenced to up to life in prison, if he had been convicted.
Prosecutors alleged that Barajas killed 20-year-old Jose Banda in a fit of rage after Banda plowed into Barajas and his sons while they were pushing a truck on a road near their home because it had run out of gas. Twelve-year-old David Jr. and 11-year-old Caleb were killed.
Defense attorney Sam Cammack said Barajas didn't kill Banda and that he was only focused on saving his sons. The gun used to kill Banda wasn't found and there was little physical evidence tying Barajas to the killing.
Authorities said that after the crash, Barajas, 32, went to his home about 100 yards from the crash site, got a gun and returned to shoot Banda.
Legal experts said prosecutors would likely have to overcome jury sympathy for Barajas, who had the support of many residents of Alvin, which is about 30 miles southeast of Houston. Further complicating their case was that there were no witnesses who identified Barajas as the shooter and gunshot residue tests done on Barajas came back negative.
Investigators testified that a bullet fragment found in Banda's car could have come from a .357-caliber gun, and that ammunition for such a gun was found in Barajas' home, along with a holster. Cammack said his client never owned a gun and that tests showed the bullet fragment also could have come from another weapon.
A forensic scientist testified that blood found on the driver's side door and driver's arm rest of Banda's car was consistent with that of Barajas.
The defense called only three witnesses to testify during the trial, which began last week.
But prosecution witnesses told jurors during questioning by Cammack that more gunfire had taken place well after Banda was shot -- pointing to the possibility that the actual shooter was still at large -- and that a search of Barajas' home failed to find any evidence that directly or indirectly linked him to the crime scene.
Cammack also suggested that Banda could have been shot by his own cousin or half-brother, who told investigators that they witnessed the crash but fled the scene. Both testified that they did not shoot Banda.
Cammack also used 911 calls to create a timeline that suggested Barajas would not have had enough time to shoot Banda.
I'm puzzle by this bit:
QuoteDefense attorney Sam Cammack said Barajas didn't kill Banda and that he was only focused on saving his sons
Focused on saving his dead sons? :unsure:
That story made me happy.
I guess the police can now focus on finding the real killer.
;)
Well yeah, at any rate, hard to have much sympathy for a drunk driver.
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2014, 03:53:46 PM
Can you provide an example? All of this sounds rather vague and not really a strong argument against building nets to prevent jumpers and/or forcing people to accept treatment.
I totally think it's legit to put up nets and counseling is a really good idea, but I'm talking about altering the things that we put up structurally that prevent people from rebuilding lives that have been broken for one reason or another.
Get property taxes down so poor people are less likely to lose their homes and stop policies that inflate housing costs. Abolish the concept of alimony and put inflation-indexed caps on child support payments. Seal all criminal records and stop sentences that make it functionally too hard for people who have served their time to become productive members of society again. Might be a good idea to raise the minimum wage again too, since we've pumped up rent costs so badly. Or find some other way to ameliorate that problem. Make it easier for people to emigrate.
I see. Though that might be even more vague as I think it might be more difficulty to establish say the extent to which alimony drives suicide. :P
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2014, 04:51:29 PM
I see. Though that might be even more vague as I think it might be more difficulty to establish say the extent to which alimony drives suicide. :P
Ask Robin Williams. :P
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2014, 04:30:31 PM
I'm puzzle by this bit:
QuoteDefense attorney Sam Cammack said Barajas didn't kill Banda and that he was only focused on saving his sons
Focused on saving his dead sons? :unsure:
Didn't say they were killed instantly , so who knows.
And by that article, it looks like even if the prosecution's case was very plausible, it appears to have quite a good amount of evidence holes so as to make an easy case for reasonable doubt.
Sad, heartbreaking, and simply unnecessary.
QuoteGirl who accidentally shot her instructor with an Uzi said the gun was too much for her
The 9-year-old girl who accidentally shot and killed her shooting range instructor with an Uzi in Arizona last week said afterward that the gun "was too much for her," according to a police report.
This girl unintentionally shot Charles Vacca, an instructor at the Last Stop shooting range about an hour outside of Las Vegas, in the head on the morning of Aug. 25. He died that night, and the accident sparked a debate over whether such a young child should have been allowed to handle such a powerful weapon.
The new report, released by the Mohave County Sheriff's Department on Tuesday, sheds some new light on Vacca's death. Among other things, it reveals that the girl said immediately after firing the gun that it was too powerful for her and had hurt her, something that delayed her family from immediately realizing that Vacca had been shot.
Vacca had shown the girl how to fire the weapon, the range instructor told police, and she had gotten a couple of rounds off with Vacca's help before he let her hold the weapon on her own. At that point, the girl began shooting the gun, but "due to the recoil, the weapon went straight up in the air" and Vacca was struck in the left side of the head. Video footage, shot by the girl's mother and sent to police, captured Vacca setting the gun to "automatic" before he was killed.
The girl's father, who said he and his wife had brought their two daughters and son to the range from Las Vegas, said he had fired the gun before his daughter. He told police that after his daughter shot the Uzi, he thought she was injured because she was holding her shoulder. He said the family initially gathered around her, unaware that Vacca had been shot.
After the fatal shot was fired and the girl dropped the gun, she turned to her mother and told her that "the gun was too much for her and it hurt her shoulder," the mother told police. When they realized Vacca was wounded, the girl's parents took the family into the nearby restaurant to keep the children from seeing what was happening.
Meanwhile, the staff of the Last Stop told police that the release waivers the family had signed "were blown away by the wind after the incident had occurred." No criminal charges are pending, but the Arizona Division of Occupational Safety and Health has said it is investigating the shooting.
Vacca's family called the shooting "a tragic accident" in an interview with the "Today" show, adding that they feel sorry for the girl and her family. "We don't want their life to revolve around this," Vacca's daughter Ashley said in the interview.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
It is one thing for a tea party member to scream about original intent and practices at the time of authorship with the constitution--they might not mind an 18th / 19th century government. But for an atheist with libertarian tendencies...that seems a bit short sighted.
But berkut wasn't talking about "original intent and practices at the time of authorship". He was talking about centuries of practice, precedent and interpretation subsequent.
We don't really know what the original intent was because neither the framers nor anyone else at the time had much to say about the amendment or its purpose.
Here's a book for this thread:
http://www.amazon.com/Parents-Open-Carry-Brian-Jeffs/dp/1618081012/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
"My Parents Open Carry" the kid's book that explains why packing heat everywhere is good thing
Need to explain to the kids why you and Dad need to go around strapped while shopping and taking them to the pool? Your answer is here!
QuoteCome join 13-year-old Brenna Strong along with her mom, Bea, and her dad, Richard, as they spend a typical Saturday running errands and having fun together. What's not so typical is that Brenna's parents lawfully open carry handguns for self-defense. The Strongs join a growing number of families that are standing up for their 2nd Amendment rights by open carrying and bringing gun ownership out of the closet and into the mainstream.
From the Amazon reviews
QuoteI'd like to propose that the author create an entire children's book series along these lines. Some suggested titles:
By Eric Heidleon August 21, 2014
"Green Eggs and BLAM"
"Clifford, the Big Red Target"
"Where the Wild Things Get Shot in a Tragic Case of Mistaken Identity"
"Where's Waldo's Walther?"
"The Lion, the Witch, and the Innocent Bystander"
"Harry Potter and the Desert-Cammo AR-15 Buildout with Telescoping Stock and Tactical Red-Dot Reticle Sighting Platform"
"The Little Engine That Could Reload"
"Diary of a Wimpy Kid Who Decided to Get Strapped and Fight Back
;)
Anyone seen or got a comment on the Army sniper record holder, killed at a gun range yesterday?
Quote from: mongers on September 14, 2014, 04:36:37 PM
Anyone seen or got a comment on the Army sniper record holder, killed at a gun range yesterday?
Another one? Or you talking about the story that happened long before yesterday?
QuoteTAMPA (Reuters) - A 51-year-old Florida man shot dead his daughter and six grandchildren in his home before killing himself on Thursday, authorities said.
Don Spirit, identified by authorities as the suspect, called the 911 emergency line and killed himself after a sheriff's deputy arrived at the scene, Gilchrist County Sheriff Robert Schultz said.
Everyone in the house was killed, Schultz said. The youngest child was less than three months old and the oldest was 10 years old, he added.
"We're all family here. What can you say?" Schultz said. "There are certain things in life that you can explain, there are certain things that you can't. This is not one that I can explain."
The incident occurred near Bell, a town of about 500 located roughly 35 miles (56 km) west of Gainesville.
The dead woman was identified as Sarah Spirit, 28, the mother of all six of the children, three boys and three girls.
The crime scene was still being investigated on Thursday night.
"We have no indication what caused this man to do what he did," said Schultz. "We may never know."
Schultz said officers had been called to the house before, but there were "no signs or indications to us previously that anything like this could or was going to happen."
Don Spirit, a New Jersey native, had an extensive criminal history, public records show, including convictions for possession of illegal weapons, drug possession, battery and depriving a child of food and shelter.
In 2001, Spirit shot his 8-year-old son to death in what was determined to be a hunting accident, the Orlando Sentinel newspaper reported.
He pleaded guilty to possessing a firearm as a convicted felon in connection with the case and was sentenced in a plea deal to three years in prison, the paper reported.
More Seedy fap material :(
The correct response is "at least he hit all his targets ".
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 18, 2014, 10:53:48 PM
Quote
.....
In 2001, Spirit shot his 8-year-old son to death in what was determined to be a hunting accident, the Orlando Sentinel newspaper reported.
He pleaded guilty to possessing a firearm as a convicted felon in connection with the case and was sentenced in a plea deal to three years in prison, the paper reported.
You have to wonder what percentage of 'gun accidents' are accidentally on purpose.
I spent this afternoon loading all my magazines. Sorta like counter punching, only more leathal.
Quote from: mongers on September 19, 2014, 10:37:31 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 18, 2014, 10:53:48 PM
Quote
.....
In 2001, Spirit shot his 8-year-old son to death in what was determined to be a hunting accident, the Orlando Sentinel newspaper reported.
He pleaded guilty to possessing a firearm as a convicted felon in connection with the case and was sentenced in a plea deal to three years in prison, the paper reported.
You have to wonder what percentage of 'gun accidents' are accidentally on purpose.
A girl I worked with back in the 80's was shot and killed "accidentally" by her boyfriend. Pretty much everybody figured he'd done it deliberately, but there was no evidence.
Came home from the morning hunt during the late buck season here. Look who also came home. Not more than 20 meters off the back deck.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10733882_10205010605416039_9039634902299898205_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10472822_10205010609696146_3270983457790160683_o.jpg)
Are you allowed to shoot deer off your back deck in your jurisdiction?
http://youtu.be/Colw-GucKw0
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
Are you allowed to shoot deer off your back deck in your jurisdiction?
If I wanted, yes. No challenge though.
They'll have better racks next year.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 16, 2014, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
Are you allowed to shoot deer off your back deck in your jurisdiction?
If I wanted, yes. No challenge though.
In Kentucky you need to have a hunting license to take deer, period, but if you have one you can kill them on your own property. Had a buck run through my back yard last weekend but I wouldn't have been able to take a safe shot since he was facing my neighbor's house. Of course, I hate that neighbor, so... :menace:
Quote from: Caliga on July 05, 2013, 11:56:25 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philebrity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Famericafuckyeah.jpg&hash=250a68cc967c82ee7e21b8572903a4fd746c67aa)
Damit.
An skinny gurl with a big gun....
And an americani flag with a Camaro...
Reminds me of a video I took of my wife shooting one of those for the first time. Is that from a Remington ad? It looks similar to my shotgun, which was manufactured in 1965.
She is holding the gun wrong though.
Buttstock is not in the shoulder, sight aligment is horrible, body posture is not leaning into the gun's recoil.
But she is skinny and young.
Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:18:58 PM
an americani flag
It's really "americanski", comrade. When you drink you betray your foreign influences.
Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
She is holding the gun wrong though.
Buttstock is not in the shoulder, sight aligment is horrible, body posture is not leaning into the gun's recoil.
But she is skinny and young.
That's why it reminded me of the video. The results were...funny. :P
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 16, 2014, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
She is holding the gun wrong though.
Buttstock is not in the shoulder, sight aligment is horrible, body posture is not leaning into the gun's recoil.
But she is skinny and young.
That's why it reminded me of the video. The results were...funny. :P
Ass to the ground?
That's what happened to my wife when she tried to shoot my 3.38 Lapua Savage BA 110 from the standing position.
She saw me doing the big little shot (500m standing unsupported head shot), and thought she could do it too.
Hilariousness ensued.
Found an Enfield No. 4 Mk. I* (http://www.planopawnshop.net/enfield-model-mki-s-no-4-marked-us-property-by-savage/) Savage toolroom prototype at a local pawn shop. Is it worth a damn? I can't find much information on it.
Plus, it figures this shop ends up with 2 .22 target pistols a few months after I buy mine. :P
Edit: Also, it appears to be the jungle carbine mod.
Jungle carbine is a cool weapon. Shame about the wandering zero.
Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
She is holding the gun wrong though.
Buttstock is not in the shoulder, sight aligment is horrible, body posture is not leaning into the gun's recoil.
But she is skinny and young.
I think it has something to do with the fact that she's supposed to be a skeet shooter.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2014, 08:24:59 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
She is holding the gun wrong though.
Buttstock is not in the shoulder, sight aligment is horrible, body posture is not leaning into the gun's recoil.
But she is skinny and young.
I think it has something to do with the fact that she's supposed to be a skeet shooter.
Everything Siege said applies to skeet and trap shooters.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 17, 2014, 09:10:44 PM
Everything Siege said applies to skeet and trap shooters.
Have you shot skeet? I have not. However a buddy of mine who has told me the technique in skeet is different in that you point at the target with your support hand before you raise the butt to your shoulder.
Like this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics8.nytimes.com%2Fimages%2F2012%2F07%2F30%2Fsports%2F30shooting-cnd01%2F30shooting-cnd01-articleLarge.jpg&hash=8dac67d4726ce0e516d7cf4c95aa7b1a4820b4d5)
I went double-trap shooting with the British Olympic team in the run-up to Beijing. You gun nuts would have liked their fancy engraved shotguns.
MAH SHOTGUN
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridaarmory.com%2Fimage.php%3Ftype%3DD%26amp%3Bid%3D196&hash=4a26dbd9467d7c520770498ce057d6752fee1174)
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2014, 10:08:10 AM
MAH SHOTGUN
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridaarmory.com%2Fimage.php%3Ftype%3DD%26amp%3Bid%3D196&hash=4a26dbd9467d7c520770498ce057d6752fee1174)
With no stock, wouldn't the recoil hurt your wrists?
I've got manly wrists.
Rebuilt with titanium after the incident. They use that on the Space Shuttle, you know.
I need a track suit like Lee Majors.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2014, 10:15:46 AM
I need a track suit like Lee Majors.
No, a pick up truck, since you're obviously
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mae0i0hsrF1qhrkxko1_r1_400.gif)
Fall Guy.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2014, 10:15:46 AM
I need a track suit like Lee Majors.
(https://languish.org/images/paulie_walnuts.png)
I got tempted by Black Friday sales and bought a Mosin. $150 after rebate from Gander Mountain, so I got the bayonet and field kit with it. Unfortunately, I can't find any place with ammunition. :P
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 29, 2014, 03:12:19 PM
I got tempted by Black Friday sales and bought a Mosin. $150 after rebate from Gander Mountain, so I got the bayonet and field kit with it. Unfortunately, I can't find any place with ammunition. :P
You didn't look hard enough. :P
http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/762x54/
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 18, 2014, 10:08:10 AM
MAH SHOTGUN
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridaarmory.com%2Fimage.php%3Ftype%3DD%26amp%3Bid%3D196&hash=4a26dbd9467d7c520770498ce057d6752fee1174)
When my father in law asked me what I wanted for Christmas, I told him I want one of these.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 29, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 29, 2014, 03:12:19 PM
I got tempted by Black Friday sales and bought a Mosin. $150 after rebate from Gander Mountain, so I got the bayonet and field kit with it. Unfortunately, I can't find any place with ammunition. :P
You didn't look hard enough. :P
http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/762x54/
I meant locally. :P
Edit: Winchester is really fucking proud of their ammunition, aren't they?
Quote from: Caliga on November 29, 2014, 04:08:39 PM
When my father in law asked me what I wanted for Christmas, I told him I want one of these.[/quote]
The Breacher is my choice for a good home defense shotgun. :)
Ed Anger dealing with the neighbors...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20071102230933%2Fbttf%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FShotgun.jpg&hash=9eadcb585639bc002bd4ffe1e2fb41273a9156a1)
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 29, 2014, 06:02:09 PM
Ed Anger dealing with the neighbors...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20071102230933%2Fbttf%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FShotgun.jpg&hash=9eadcb585639bc002bd4ffe1e2fb41273a9156a1)
The well off neighbors on my side of the street? No
The ones across the street in the older plat? Its getting closer to that. Except for the 17 year old girl that is flirting we me.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-T4H5hRSmMjQ%2FT9zZ0gNwk4I%2FAAAAAAAAGsU%2FvklTnUbpf5c%2Fs1600%2FBill-Murray-Caddyshack.jpg&hash=f5d34684c7d6d1d61b896a37df7201d867a57ea4)
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 29, 2014, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 29, 2014, 04:08:39 PM
When my father in law asked me what I wanted for Christmas, I told him I want one of these.
The Breacher is my choice for a good home defense shotgun. :)
I'm not a big fan of "tactical" firearms myself. My two side-by-sides will suffice, once I get them repaired. :P
BTW, it's a nice touch that those wacky and practical Russians made the pig sticker bayonet double as the screwdriver used to field strip the rifle.
QuotePolice: Austin shooter was a 'homegrown American extremist'
Larry McQuilliams had "let me die" written in marker across his chest when he fired more than 100 rounds in downtown Austin early Friday morning.
McQuilliams, who Austin Police officials called a "homegrown American extremist" with ties to a Christian identity hate group, was shot dead on Friday by a police officer outside the department's headquarters.
Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo told reporters on Monday that officers who searched the gunman's home found a map with 34 targets, including two churches. McQuilliams had fired bullets into Austin police headquarters, a federal courthouse and the Mexican consulate in downtown Austin on Friday. He also tried to set the Mexican consulate building on fire.
Previously, police said they had not yet determined the motive for the shooting, which left only the gunman dead, but speculated that the current immigration debate could have been a factor. On Monday, federal investigators said the gunman didn't leave a note that outlined his motive, but that he had previously told friends he was upset he couldn't find a job, even as immigrants to the United States receive assistance.
On his bed, the gunman left a note and laid out clothes, officials said. A note left behind said the outfit was for his funeral.
"Hate was in his heart," Acevedo said.
Police believe McQuilliams associated himself with the Phineas Priesthood, an anti-Semitic, anti-multiculturalism affiliation that opposes biracial relationships, same-sex marriage, taxation and abortion. Authorities found a copy of "Vigilantes of Christendom," a book linked to the Priesthood, in the rental van McQuilliams used during the attacks. Inside of the book was a handwritten note that "discusses his rank as a priest in his fight against anti-God people," Acevedo said.
"If you look at what he did, he terrorized a city, he's just an American terrorist trying to terrorize our people," Acevedo said.
Law enforcement officials will continue to investigate the gunman's background, the police chief said.
Among other things investigators need to determine: How McQuilliams got his weapons. He had been arrested in 1998 for driving under the influence and in 1992 for aggravated robbery, Acevedo said. He also served time in prison for a bank robbery.
Phineas Priesthood affiliates were tied to a string of 1996 bank robberies and bombings in the state of Washington.
Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, told The Post that the Phineas Priesthood is a "concept" that originated with "Vigilantes of Christendom," which came out in 1990. The group takes its name from a story about the biblical figure of Phineas in the book of Numbers.
In the story, Phineas slays an Israelite man and a Midianite woman who were together in a tent. "To the extreme right, this [story] is a biblical injunction against race mixing," Potok said. Phineas Priests would also use the passage to justify violent acts in the name of their beliefs. "It's very much a self-calling," Potok said of those who would identify as Phineas Priesthood members. "If you commit a Phineas act...you can be considered a Phineas priest."
In a backgrounder, the Anti-defamation league wrote that "the Phineas Priesthood is not a membership organization in the traditional sense: there are no meetings, rallies or newsletters." The ADL added that "extremists become 'members' when they commit 'Phineas acts:' any violent activity against 'non-whites.'" Potok noted that the affiliation does not have a national structure.
There is no organization that would determine whether one is a "member" of the group or not. Its affiliates, like McQuilliams, would be self-designated.
Its members identify themseves as Christians, however, "they are really not Christians in any sense that a christian would accept," Potok added. Most mainstream American Christians, he said, would find a Phineas Priest's reading of scripture to be "heretical."
Definitely a spectacularly inept terrorist. We were fortunate there.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 29, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 29, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 29, 2014, 03:12:19 PM
I got tempted by Black Friday sales and bought a Mosin. $150 after rebate from Gander Mountain, so I got the bayonet and field kit with it. Unfortunately, I can't find any place with ammunition. :P
You didn't look hard enough. :P
http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/762x54/
I meant locally. :P
Edit: Winchester is really fucking proud of their ammunition, aren't they?
It'll probably be way overpriced locally anyway. Just buy a spam can of it online. Should last you a while.
I love the bolts on Mosins. They're practically bomb-proof and easy to strip. And I don't think I've ever come across a Mosin that was improperly headspaced. What was the date and arsenal mark on yours?
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2014, 01:04:28 AM
Definitely a spectacularly inept terrorist. We were fortunate there.
Sounds more like a deliberate "suicide by cop".
So I went to my sisters for turkey day, and my brother in law had gotten himself a very nice AR-15 with all the bells and whistles.
Took the son (14) to the shooting range to try it out along with a couple handguns he has, a .40 and a 9mm of some kind or another.
My son has never fired a actual firearm, but he has a Airsoft AR-15 and plays a lot of Call of Duty, so he should be fine, right?
Give him some basic safety instruction while my two brothers in law shoot the AR-15. Then when it is his turn to give it a try...he refused. Said it looked "boring" and he wasn't interested.
Spent the next hour while we were shooting texting on his phone, refused to fire the rifle or the pistols.
Very odd, but I wasn't about to force him to try it.
:hmm: Very odd. When I was his age, I'd give my left nut for a chance to play with real guns. And being on a clumsy side, that probably would've been the outcome had I had the chance.
It's a sign of intelligence.
It could also be a father/son thing. I know that when I was young, I was remarkably uninterested in any kind of nudity when my parents were around. :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on December 02, 2014, 10:58:23 AM
It'll probably be way overpriced locally anyway. Just buy a spam can of it online. Should last you a while.
I love the bolts on Mosins. They're practically bomb-proof and easy to strip. And I don't think I've ever come across a Mosin that was improperly headspaced. What was the date and arsenal mark on yours?
I don't remember. I will look when I get home.
I did buy some milsurp from Graf (they have 20-packs at the spam can unit price) but too many of the ranges around here are anti-milsurp/anti-FMJ. I have only found one 50yd range within reasonable distance so far I can shoot it at, and that one is bench-only.
Can't wait to see vM go over the trench line to deal with a home invader in the hallway. :lol: FIX BAYONETS *TWEET*
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
:hmm: Very odd. When I was his age, I'd give my left nut for a chance to play with real guns. And being on a clumsy side, that probably would've been the outcome had I had the chance.
I would guess that he was probably afraid.
Quote from: Caliga on December 02, 2014, 12:59:49 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
:hmm: Very odd. When I was his age, I'd give my left nut for a chance to play with real guns. And being on a clumsy side, that probably would've been the outcome had I had the chance.
I would guess that he was probably afraid.
Sounds to me he wasn't terribly impressed. Guns go pop. Yay.
Quote from: Berkut on December 02, 2014, 11:24:05 AM
So I went to my sisters for turkey day, and my brother in law had gotten himself a very nice AR-15 with all the bells and whistles.
Took the son (14) to the shooting range to try it out along with a couple handguns he has, a .40 and a 9mm of some kind or another.
My son has never fired a actual firearm, but he has a Airsoft AR-15 and plays a lot of Call of Duty, so he should be fine, right?
Give him some basic safety instruction while my two brothers in law shoot the AR-15. Then when it is his turn to give it a try...he refused. Said it looked "boring" and he wasn't interested.
Spent the next hour while we were shooting texting on his phone, refused to fire the rifle or the pistols.
Very odd, but I wasn't about to force him to try it.
Yeah, that's a teenager around his parent.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 02, 2014, 12:57:10 PM
I did buy some milsurp from Graf (they have 20-packs at the spam can unit price) but too many of the ranges around here are anti-milsurp/anti-FMJ. I have only found one 50yd range within reasonable distance so far I can shoot it at, and that one is bench-only.
Yeah, I used to go to a range that was convinced that my surplus Russian ammo was steel core because it stuck to a magnet. I tried explaining that it was lead core, copper-washed steel jacket but gave up & found a different range to shoot the stuff.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2014, 12:58:05 PM
Can't wait to see vM go over the trench line to deal with a home invader in the hallway. :lol: FIX BAYONETS *TWEET*
With the length of a M91/30 with bayo attached, I'm guessing he'd mostly be killing drywall :D
Quote from: derspiess on December 02, 2014, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2014, 12:58:05 PM
Can't wait to see vM go over the trench line to deal with a home invader in the hallway. :lol: FIX BAYONETS *TWEET*
With the length of a M91/30 with bayo attached, I'm guessing he'd mostly be killing drywall :D
I bet if I came out of the bedroom screaming bloody murder with that whomever was in the house would figure I was fucking nuts and do their best impression of Jesse Owens. :P I was very surprised to see how long this rifle is, with and without bayonet. And to think the M91 is even longer...
Anyway, my rifle is an Izhevsk 1943 model. It has definitely been refurbed; the parts all have electropencil serial numbers except the barrel, which has a fresh stamped serial. The magazine cover has a struck-through original serial. All the arsenal marks I found match, though the original barrel markings are pretty faint.
My 1943 Izzy has really rough machining marks, which I guess is indicative of a shortage of rifles at the front at some point that year.
I want an Italian rifle. Only dropped once.
Quote from: DGuller on December 02, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
:hmm: Very odd. When I was his age, I'd give my left nut for a chance to play with real guns. And being on a clumsy side, that probably would've been the outcome had I had the chance.
My 11-year old nephew plays a lot of CoD. And his dream job is not so much actual shooting, but to becoming an engineer and designing weapons of death for the military industrial complex. :showoff:
I'm already training my girls to be death machines. They can load their single shot Henry rifles now. :)
So, I have to admit to being a little surprised that the recent shooting of the kid with the toy gun has not become a cause celebre with the open carry crowd. Granted, it was a toy gun, but that hardlly matter, right?
If it is a-ok to run around sporting a gun, then his being shot for doing so should be a huge deal for those who are very much in favor of the rights of people to carry their weapons around openly - so why no outrage over his being killed by the police for having a gun?
Quote from: Berkut on December 02, 2014, 09:31:05 PM
so why no outrage over his being killed by the police for having a gun?
A shitload of Canadians were outraged, man.
Open carry doesn't mean you get to threaten people by aiming the weapon at them. Your snarkiness is noted, though.
Anyway I think I'll get Tommy his first bb gun. I think he's seen enough Christmas Story so that he'd be disappointed with anything other than a Red Ryder.
We'll shoot it in the back woods and I'll keep it in the safe to preclude any possible shenanigans.
Quote from: derspiess on December 02, 2014, 10:23:06 PM
Open carry doesn't mean you get to threaten people by aiming the weapon at them. Your snarkiness is noted, though.
He didn't aim it at the police - they shot him simply because he had it.
It almost seems like open carry only applies to "non-threatening" people. Like...not black.
Did I say at the police? He had been aiming it at people prior to the police arriving.
The police don't know that, so that doesn't apply to their actions.
If I am exercising my rahts by carrying my AR-15 into Wendys, and someone "feels threatened" and calls the cops and SAYS I am aiming it at people, do the cops have the right to blow me away as they get our of their car as long as someone SAYS I aimed it at someone?
Doesn't seem like much of a right in that case.
This is what I find so silly about the entire gun nut mantra - it simply does not make rational sense from a policy standpoint.
Once person exercising their right to run around armed has the right to kill you if they "feel threatened". See Treyvon Martin.
You can feel threatened even if you don't have a gun, because someone could kill you in 4.5 seconds with a knife if they are within 40 feet, hence you can justifiably blow them away and call it self defense.
Yet anyone exercising their "open carry" right, by definition, is ALWAYS within moments, literally constantly less than a second away, from being able to kill someone within a hundred yards...so if someone with their AR-15 is acting a little squirrelly, and frankly, walking around with an AR-15 openly in the manner these d-bags do is pretty fucking squirrely, then do I not have the right to kill them before they get a chance to kill me, as long as I "feel threatened"?
The open carry nuts basically have defined a system where person A has the right to openly carry their gun, and person B has the right to kill them at the drop of a hat because doing so makes them an imminent threat.
The entire thing is just ridiculous.
And there is no question that the practical impact is radically racially unfair - there is no way some black kid is going to get away with strolling about exercising their open carry rights in the manner some white guy will in general.
Quote from: Berkut on December 02, 2014, 10:59:27 PM
If I am exercising my rahts by carrying my AR-15 into Wendys, and someone "feels threatened" and calls the cops and SAYS I am aiming it at people, do the cops have the right to blow me away as they get our of their car as long as someone SAYS I aimed it at someone?
No. They have a right to blow you away if you don't comply with their orders.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2014, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 02, 2014, 10:59:27 PM
If I am exercising my rahts by carrying my AR-15 into Wendys, and someone "feels threatened" and calls the cops and SAYS I am aiming it at people, do the cops have the right to blow me away as they get our of their car as long as someone SAYS I aimed it at someone?
No. They have a right to blow you away if you don't comply with their orders.
Even if those orders violate my rahts?
"Put the gun down!"
"I have the raht...."
BANGBANGBANG!
Of course, in this case, I guess the gun nut would actually have the right to shoot the cop, since the cop is threatening him while he does something perfectly legal?
The point is that being armed immediately escalates the situation into one where the police are in immediate fear for their life - the definition bandied about is that if the police can reasonable assume you can threaten someones life within moments, and they have some reason to believe you might do so, they can shoot you. They killed a guy with a knife who wasn't attacking anyone simply because he threatened to do so - surely someone with a gun is an order of magnitude more dangerous, and at vastly greater range. Someone with a rifle is dangerous to the police at a distance they cannot even safely approach in any fashion. In the kids example, if he was playing with a replica AR-15, the argument that they were justified in driving up and blowing him away would apply to a police sniper simply shooting him from 500 yards.
But lets not even talk about the cops for now - what about other private citizens?
You can shoot someone if you feel reasonably threatened that they might kill or harm you. If they have a gun, they can do so instantly. Same with you.
So two people both exercising their rights are in a situation where they are IMMEDIATELY justified in shooting one another the moment ANY altercation begins that COULD result in one of them deciding to use force. So the only rational response is to be the one to decide to use that force first, and we can lean on our "right to carry/right to not retreat" rights to validate that, and of course only one person will be around to tell their side.
The entire open carry concept is simply not practically workable outside the Wild Wild West, unless we are ok with people shooting one another even more than they do already.
You have the right to do what? Ignore police commands?
Quote from: Berkut on December 02, 2014, 09:31:05 PM
So, I have to admit to being a little surprised that the recent shooting of the kid with the toy gun has not become a cause celebre with the open carry crowd. Granted, it was a toy gun, but that hardlly matter, right?
If it is a-ok to run around sporting a gun, then his being shot for doing so should be a huge deal for those who are very much in favor of the rights of people to carry their weapons around openly - so why no outrage over his being killed by the police for having a gun?
:hmm: I have a feeling you have an explanation. :hmm: One whose absurdity and offensiveness is only exceeded by its truthfulness.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2014, 11:16:00 PM
You have the right to do what? Ignore police commands?
Have a right to carry a gun around.
And if the police commands are not lawful, while I may not have a "right" to ignore them, you can certainly find it justifiable. If a cop tells me I don't have a right to refuse to let him search my car, am I wrong to refuse to let him do so just because he "commands" it?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 02, 2014, 11:16:00 PM
You have the right to do what? Ignore police commands?
So cops can use lethal force if their commands are ignored? That seems a rather low bar.
No cops can use lethal force if they feel their or someone elses life is in danger.
They can order people to take particular actions in response to the potential for that fear, and not obeying those orders can result in the police deciding it is then necessary to use lethal force, since the alternative (telling the person to stop doing whatever is it they are doing to create the perception that they might be dangerous) did not work.
This isn't really nearly as complicated as people are trying to make it, at least in theory. Obviously in application it can be incredibly complex.
Quote from: Berkut on December 02, 2014, 10:46:44 PM
almost seems like open carry only applies to "non-threatening" people. Like...not black.
Yes.
I got my surprise Xmas present today, the type you have to get yourself so you can register it. It was a good day, first she used her womanly charms :perv: to convince me to call in sick so we could go get my present, then she tells me to drive in that direction, and she gave me a $600 limit :wub:, so I got an XDS 45 (oh, I also got some nice hiking boots and we ordered some kayaks (how is Santa gonna fit 3 kayaks under the tree? :hmm:)).
Good woman you got there :thumbsup:
Firing a big-ass gun seems like anything but boring for a 14 year old. I was a ninety-pound 13 year-old when my friend's crazy uncle took us out into his woods to blast away at stumps with his 44 Magnum and Desert Eagle, and my own crazy uncle put my behind a 12 gauge the same year.
Definitely exciting, nerve-wracking, and ultimately a great time; but I was scared shitless (especially of the shotgun recoil busting my face open), and only intense social pressure got me through it. My guess is that your son was, quite naturally given his age/size, just a little too afraid, Berk. I'm sure you could help him over it, if you had any interest in getting him to shoot.
Quote from: derspiess on December 04, 2014, 11:06:23 PM
Good woman you got there :thumbsup:
And she can cook awesome too! :mmm: :wub:
Got my snap caps along with real ammunition for the Mosin yesterday. My rifle has a very... aggressive shell extraction system. I think the flying shell casings would do as much damage as my .22. :P
I never used snap caps for my Mosins. I just dry-fire the hell out of them and never have any problem with the firing pin.
I never really paid much attention to how far they fling brass. Gonna check that out next time at the range :)
I bought snap caps because I wanted to be able to test the entire firing cycle while actually passing rounds through the weapon.
I was also paranoid about the firing pin. :P
Nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution. I probably jinxed myself now and will break a firing pin sometime soon :D
I have spare bolt parts from when Century was selling "U Fix Em" Mosins for $20-$30 several years ago, so it wouldn't be the end of the world.
:lol:
QuotePew poll: Support for gun rights exceeds gun control
By Kendall Breitman
12/10/14 3:59 PM EST
For the first time in over 20 years, Americans support gun rights more than gun control.
In a Pew Research poll released Wednesday, 52 percent are in support of the protection of gun rights and 46 percent support gun control. This is the first time in two decades that Pew has found more support for gun rights than gun control.
Backing for gun rights has been on the rise since January 2013, when it had 45 percent supporting protections. During that time period, support for gun control also fell from 51 percent to its current standing.
Fifty-seven percent of those polled said that owning a gun allows for greater protection against crime. Thirty-eight percent said owning a gun is dangerous for personal safety.
Support for gun rights is found mostly among whites, with 61 percent of white Americans backing protections. Gun control is more popular among minorities, gaining 60 percent of black support and 71 percent of Hispanic support. But more than half of the black population polled for the survey — 54 percent — said that guns protect the lives of their owners rather than endanger them.
The survey was conducted between Dec. 3-7 among 1,507 adults and has a margin of error of 2.9 percentage points.
Guns don't kill people - toddlers do!
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2014/12/woman-shot-killed-by-2-year-old-at-walmart/
QuoteMom Shot, Killed by 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart
(HAYDEN, Idaho) -- A young mother was shot and killed by her 2-year-old son Tuesday in an Idaho Walmart, police said.
Lt. Stu Miller of the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office said that the boy was sitting in the shopping cart when he pulled the handgun from his mom's purse and pulled the trigger. The victim, whose name hasn't been released, was 29 years old.
The preliminary investigation shows the shooting was an accident, Miller said. He added that the victim is from out of town and may have been visiting relatives for the holidays. The boy is currently with family.
She was shopping in the electronics section of the Hayden, Idaho, store, about 40 miles from Spokane, Washington, when the shooting happened Tuesday morning. The store was immediately evacuated and will be closed until Wednesday. The investigation is ongoing.
"A very sad and tragic incident happened in our Hayden store involving a female customer, and we're working with the local sheriff's department while they investigate what happened," Walmart spokesperson Brooke Buchanan said in a statement to ABC News Tuesday.
When my parents were visiting I brought my SIG-522 out to show my dad. Then, I brought my Beretta out and for some reason my mom flipped the fuck out.
Assault rifles = Ok
Pistols = BAD
(Ok, calling the SIG an assault rifle is kind of stretch but it does look exactly like the SIG-556. :blush: )
Parents always treat you like you're 2 years old. :rolleyes:
My mom does, yeah. :sleep:
Quote from: Caliga on December 31, 2014, 07:58:02 AM
When my parents were visiting I brought my SIG-522 out to show my dad. Then, I brought my Beretta out and for some reason my mom flipped the fuck out.
Assault rifles = Ok
Pistols = BAD
(Ok, calling the SIG an assault rifle is kind of stretch but it does look exactly like the SIG-556. :blush: )
Maybe it's a nurturing thing, maternal instincts clashing with the display of instruments of death?
Maybe. I assumed it was a hippie liberal retired teacher thing. :hmm:
Did she flip out before or after the gun fell apart in your hands?
Quote from: Caliga on December 31, 2014, 07:58:02 AM
When my parents were visiting I brought my SIG-522 out to show my dad. Then, I brought my Beretta out and for some reason my mom flipped the fuck out.
Assault rifles = Ok
Pistols = BAD
(Ok, calling the SIG an assault rifle is kind of stretch but it does look exactly like the SIG-556. :blush: )
I'm sure she figured out the SIG was a .22 :P
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 31, 2014, 09:10:07 AM
Did she flip out before or after the gun fell apart in your hands?
:sleep:
Momma said the pistol is the devil's right hand.
I wasn't born... with a six gun in my hand. :(
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/02/justice/georgia-police-chief-wife/index.html?c=homepage-t
QuoteWe were sleeping when I shot my wife, Georgia police chief says on 911 tape
(CNN) -- The police chief in an upscale community outside Atlanta said he was sleeping when he moved a gun in the bed and accidentally shot his wife in the back, according to a 911 tape released Friday.
"Who shot her?" the 911 operator asked William McCollom, the police chief in Peachtree City, Georgia.
"Me," McCollom replied.
"How did you shoot her?"
"The gun was in the bed, I went to move it, put it to the side, and it went off," McCollom said.
"Is she awake?"
"No, everybody was sleeping," McCollom said.
"No, is she awake now?"
"Yes," he said.
Later in the call, the operator asked McCollom, "Were you asleep also when this happened?"
"Yes," he said.
Wife in critical condition
Margaret McCollom, 58, was listed in critical condition Friday at Atlanta Medical Center, according to the hospital.
William McCollom, 57, has not been charged with a crime, but he has been put on administrative leave while the shooting is investigated by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.
McCollom started out the 911 call by describing the problem: "Gunshot wound, accidental, need medical ASAP."
He made the call to 911 about 4 a.m. Thursday. He didn't mention he was the top law enforcement officer in the town of 35,000 people until the 1:50 mark in the six-minute recording.
The 911 operator asked where the gun was located. At first McCollom said he didn't know, then said, "I'm the chief of police. The gun is on the dresser."
"You're the chief of police in Peachtree City?" the operator asked.
"Yeah, unfortunately, yes," McCollom said.
'Come on, guys, get here'
In a statement released Friday, the GBI said: "Chief McCollom has been cooperating with GBI agents working the investigation. Ms. McCollom will be interviewed when her medical condition improves. When the GBI completes the investigation, it will be turned over to Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard."
At one point in the recording, the operator asked, "Is that her crying?" A woman's moans can be heard in the background.
"Yes, she's having trouble breathing," McCollom said. At another point, McCollom addresses his wife, "Are you having trouble breathing, dear?"
"Come on, guys, get here," he says while waiting for the police and ambulance. "Oh my god, how did this happen?"
When the police arrive, McCollom can be heard telling them the gun is on the dresser. The 911 operator ended the call.
Authorities aren't revealing many details, but said in a Thursday press conference that McCollom shot his wife with his service Glock 9mm.
McCollom told the 911 operator he had shot his wife twice, but the GBI said investigators determined she'd only been shot once.
Peachtree City known for golf carts
McCollom was named the police chief in October after being interim chief for three months, reported CNN affiliate WSB.
Peachtree City posted this statement on the city website:
"City Manager Jim Pennington said, 'This morning, I met with every department manager, and the city of Peachtree City, including the Peachtree City Police Department, is continuing with normal operations.'
Peachtree City Mayor Vanessa Fleisch said, 'Our thoughts and prayers are with Maggie and the McCollom family right now, as we wait for the state investigation to proceed.' "
Magazines and websites regularly rank Peachtree City as one of the best places to live and raise a family. The community's trademark: Residents putter around in golf carts on the community's 90-plus miles of paved pathways.
I suppose eventually Darwinism could solve the gun nut problem, but I think it would take too long. If only we could speed the process up.
Gun safety? Why would a cop need to know anything about that?
Jeez.
Cop shoots a black guy in the elevator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNz88DZXzFI#t=135.
Quote from: DGuller on January 06, 2015, 08:47:36 PM
Cop shoots a black guy in the elevator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNz88DZXzFI#t=135.
:lol: Good one.
P.S. Stupid Glocks.
Quote from: DGuller on January 06, 2015, 08:47:36 PM
Cop shoots a black guy in the elevator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNz88DZXzFI#t=135.
I feel guilty at laughing at this. :blush:
What the fuck is he doing waving it around like that? :lol:
You'll notice he didn't shoot that box of donuts.
It's not about black or white: it's all blue.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 06, 2015, 09:10:24 PM
What the fuck is he doing waving it around like that? :lol:
Looked like he was taking out of his holster and trying to put it in his coat pocket. Why that couldn't wait, I don't know. I think even Caliga would wait until he got to the car before he shot himself.
He should have backed up.
QuoteIndiana couple arrested after video shows handgun in toddler's mouth
(Reuters) - An Indiana couple has been charged with child neglect after cell phone video obtained by authorities recorded the pair telling a one-year-old baby to put a gun in her mouth and instructing her to make sounds like the weapon was firing, police said.
Authorities in Evansville said on Friday they found the video on the phone of Michael Barnes, 19, who was arrested Thursday after he agreed to sell a handgun to an undercover officer through a transaction made on social media, Evansville police said in a statement.
During what police called a "follow up investigation," officers looking through Barnes' phone discovered the video of the one-year-old baby putting a gun in her mouth. In the background, two adults, identified as Barnes and the toddler's mother, Toni Wilson, 22, encouraged the child to play with the weapon, police said.
"Barnes can be heard telling the child to say "pow" on multiple occasions while the child plays with the gun," police said. "The video also shows the child placing the muzzle of the gun in her mouth. At no point does Barnes try to stop the child from playing with the gun," the statement said.
The child's mother told police that the firearm was a pellet gun. Evansville police said the weapon was a .40 caliber handgun.
Both Barnes and Wilson face multiple charges in the incident, including child neglect and criminal recklessness with a deadly weapon. Barnes also faces charges in connection with the thwarted gun sale, police said.
The 12-month-old girl and one-month-old twins in the home were placed in emergency care, police said.
Barnes and Wilson were in custody and not available for comment. It was unclear if they had obtained attorneys or how they intended to plead.
(Reporting by Victoria Cavaliere; editing by Andrew Hay)
QuoteThe 12-month-old girl and one-month-old twins
FFS Ed.
:lol:
HEY NOW
:lol:
Fucking incredible.
The lengths the cops will go to to interfere in law abiding citizens 2nd Amendment Rights is amazing.
Nothing in the Constitution says anything about your right to bearing arms being limited to not being allowed to ahve your child place those arms in their mouth.
Only in a nation run by someone like Obama would such a breach of justice be allowed to stand.
Quote from: Berkut on January 10, 2015, 11:57:37 PM
Fucking incredible.
The lengths the cops will go to to interfere in law abiding citizens 2nd Amendment Rights is amazing.
Nothing in the Constitution says anything about your right to bearing arms being limited to not being allowed to ahve your child place those arms in their mouth.
Only in a nation run by someone like Obama would such a breach of justice be allowed to stand.
Not sure if serious. :unsure:
Now here's a feel-good gun story:
QuoteThe mystery of the 132-year-old Winchester rifle found propped against a national park tree
Washington Post Morning Mix
Archaeologists conducting surveys in Nevada's Great Basin National Park came upon a gun frozen in time: a .44-40 Winchester rifle manufactured in 1882. It was propped up against a juniper tree.
"They just happened to notice the rifle under the tree," said Nichole Andler, Basin National Park's chief of interpretation. The public will get a chance to view the rifle over the weekend.
Although staff have no idea how the rifle ended up there, "it looked like someone propped it up there, sat down to have their lunch and got up to walk off without it," Andler said.
It's remarkable that anyone was able to spot the gun back in November, as it had blended in so well with its surroundings. The unloaded gun appears to have been left undisturbed for more than 100 years; its wooden base had turned gray and was partially buried, and the barrel had rusted.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-apps%2Fimrs.php%3Fsrc%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fimg.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fmorning-mix%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F21%2F2015%2F01%2F10869701_930528703659121_2639941770128675848_o-768x1024.jpg%26amp%3Bw%3D1484&hash=3e6356c661a07700694fed586aecae869e12ad57)
Though not in very good shape, the rifle is certainly salvageable, Andler said, and it will be preserved so it remains in its current state.
While the rifle's back story remains a mystery, the history of the place offers some clues: Great Basin was primarily a mining site at the time, but could have also been home to grazing cattle and sheep. The gun may have also been the relic of game hunting in the area.
This particular model of Winchester rifle was quite popular at the time, so it wasn't necessarily a rare and precious item for a person to leave behind. The year this particular rifle was made, 25,000 others were also manufactured. In fact, the prevalence of the gun may have contributed to a massive price drop, from costing $50 in 1873 to $25 in 1882.
Here is a close-up of the rifle:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-apps%2Fimrs.php%3Fsrc%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fimg.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fmorning-mix%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F21%2F2015%2F01%2F10636359_930529756992349_6417208263713601560_o1-768x1024.jpg%26amp%3Bw%3D1484&hash=80bba4e61c35d56f00e5727046e7395358e85747)
"It was one of those things, sort of the everyman's rifle," Andler said. The gun is often referred to "as the gun that won the West," she added.
Park staff are now combing through old newspaper articles and records to try and unearth any information as to how the rifle ended up against that tree.
"It probably has a very good and interesting story," Andler said, "but it probably is a story that could have happened to almost anyone living this sort of extraordinary existence out here in the Great Basin Desert."
grumbler is en route to claim it, since he still has the receipt.
Good quality item. Just put some boiled linseed oil on the stock and spray a little CLP on the moving parts, then rock & roll!
Quote from: The Brain on January 11, 2015, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 10, 2015, 11:57:37 PM
Fucking incredible.
The lengths the cops will go to to interfere in law abiding citizens 2nd Amendment Rights is amazing.
Nothing in the Constitution says anything about your right to bearing arms being limited to not being allowed to ahve your child place those arms in their mouth.
Only in a nation run by someone like Obama would such a breach of justice be allowed to stand.
Not sure if serious. :unsure:
Of course it's not.
Of course I am not serious.
However, the difference between what I said and what gun nuts routinely say is only a (small) matter of degree - to anyone not drinking the gun nut kool-aid.
The right to keep and bear arms == you can't have a background check
or
The right to keep and bear arms == you can't tell me I can't have a shooting range in my backyard
is only slightly less idiotic than the claim that
The right to keep and bear arms == you can't tell me not to let my kid bear those arms.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 15, 2015, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 11, 2015, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 10, 2015, 11:57:37 PM
Fucking incredible.
The lengths the cops will go to to interfere in law abiding citizens 2nd Amendment Rights is amazing.
Nothing in the Constitution says anything about your right to bearing arms being limited to not being allowed to ahve your child place those arms in their mouth.
Only in a nation run by someone like Obama would such a breach of justice be allowed to stand.
Not sure if serious. :unsure:
Of course it's not.
Thanks.
That's what he's here for.
Not bad, kid. One shot, two wounds.
Quote3-Year-Old Shoots Dad, Pregnant Mom in Albuquerque Motel Room
A 3-year-old boy shot his father and pregnant mother inside a New Mexico motel room, police said Sunday. Both parents are recovering. The Albuquerque Police Department said in a statement that it appears the toddler managed to take a handgun out of his mother's purse and fire one shot in the America's Best Value Inn on Saturday afternoon.
The bullet hit the father in the buttock, exited the man's hip and then struck the toddler's mother in the shoulder, according to police. The mother, who is eight months pregnant, is hospitalized in stable condition and the father has been treated and released, police added.
Justin Reynolds said he and his girlfriend, Monique Villescas, were getting ready to order pizza when he heard a gun go off. "The next minute I realized my girlfriend was bleeding," he told NBC News station KOB. "Then I sat down and realized I was shot too." Reynolds said he immediately called 911 and grabbed towels to try to stop Villescas' bleeding.
"I just took action right away," he told KOB. "I was more worried about my girlfriend than myself and anything else that was going on. And my son because I didn't know if he had shot himself or not. He was shocked and crying. It was traumatizing." Reynolds added that he was grateful his Villescas' two-year-old daughter - who had been sitting her to her mother at the time - was not injured.
The Albuquerque Police Department said both children have been placed on a 48-hour hold. The case will be forwarded to the district attorney's office and the parents could face negligence charges, the force added.
(Keck increments his "crimes averted through use of a gun counter")
The question is what they were doing if his buttock was near her shoulder?
Sold my Cz-82. Great pistol and I like the 9x18mm round, but the double stack magazine was just too thick for CCW purposes. I like the look of the Polish P-64 pistol, especially for CCW purposes (not that I even have my license yet). AIM has some nice looking ones, and I can buy directly with my C&R license.
CCW purposes. Like you have any.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2015, 10:59:18 AM
CCW purposes. Like you have any.
I work in downtown Cincy. Sure, things are hunky dory right now but we're one unarmed teen shooting away from 2001-style riots.
Quote from: derspiess on February 05, 2015, 11:04:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2015, 10:59:18 AM
CCW purposes. Like you have any.
I work in downtown Cincy.
Not a reason.
QuoteSure, things are hunky dory right now but we're one unarmed teen shooting away from 2001-style riots.
The 2001 riots? In which nobody died? OK.
And the situation will be improved with more CCW! :)
I still like the PPK as CCW weapon. If all else fails, I can beat someone with it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2015, 11:07:30 AM
The 2001 riots? In which nobody died? OK.
People were being pulled out of their cars & beaten. I'd rather that not happen to me.
Quote from: derspiess on February 05, 2015, 11:13:08 AM
People were being pulled out of their cars & beaten. I'd rather that not happen to me.
You don't really need a gun to reach over and hit the car door lock with it anymore, what with power locks these days.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2015, 11:24:33 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 05, 2015, 11:13:08 AM
People were being pulled out of their cars & beaten. I'd rather that not happen to me.
You don't really need a gun to reach over and hit the car door lock with it anymore, what with power locks these days.
Car door locks prevent broken windows? GOT IT.
Besides, that door locking sound is what furthers racial divide in our city.
Don't worry, d. I'm sure you're trying hard enough to put yourself in the position to shoot your first black. Don't worry. You'll make the magic happen soon enough.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2015, 12:00:18 PM
Don't worry, d. I'm sure you're trying hard enough to put yourself in the position to shoot your first black. Don't worry. You'll make the magic happen soon enough.
Nah-- if I wanted to do that I'd have become a cop.
Anyway it'd take some extraordinary circumstances to invoke MAH CCW RAHTS. Can't imagine carrying on a regular basis.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 05, 2015, 11:24:33 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 05, 2015, 11:13:08 AM
People were being pulled out of their cars & beaten. I'd rather that not happen to me.
You don't really need a gun to reach over and hit the car door lock with it anymore, what with power locks these days.
If I'm driving a car, and someone seeking to do me harm is on foot, I don't need a gun. I've got a car.
Quote from: Martinus on February 02, 2015, 11:25:14 AM
The question is what they were doing if his buttock was near her shoulder?
:lol:
Quote from: dps on February 05, 2015, 02:36:52 PM
If I'm driving a car, and someone seeking to do me harm is on foot, I don't need a gun. I've got a car.
Sounds like you actually may have a monster truck, if you're able to get away through a crowded street.
Picked up the Polish P-64. Feels heavy for such a tiny pistol. Also stopped on my way home and bought a Rock Island Arsenal 1911 in GI configuration. Very impressed with the fit and finish for such a reasonable price. Now need to stock up on .45 ammo.
QuotePicked up the Polish P-64. Feels heavy for such a tiny pistol
Internal parts are part metal, part potato.
The potato should make it lighter.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 09, 2015, 01:52:04 PM
The potato should make it lighter.
POLISH POTATO DENSE AND STRONG.
:lol:
So the ATF backed off of a threatened ban on certain 5.56mm ammo. I'm sightly disappointed, because I could have sold off my XM855 stockpile for HUGE PROFIT.
What "certain" 5.56 mm ammo were they "threatening" to "ban"?
We need to update the title of the thread. It's 3.5 years old now.
QuoteGod Shoots Himself While Cleaning Gun
News in Brief • God • guns • News • ISSUE 51•10 • Mar 10, 2015
THE HEAVENS—Calling it a careless mistake that was thankfully less serious than it could have been, the Lord God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, admitted Tuesday that He accidentally shot Himself in the thigh while cleaning His Beretta 9 mm semiautomatic pistol. "I was just buffing up the trigger guard when all of a sudden the thing goes off," said God, chastising Himself for leaving the safety off and forgetting to keep the muzzle pointed away from Him. "I really should have checked to make sure the chamber was empty. Thank goodness it wasn't my AK or my Mossberg 500 Persuader—then there could have been some real damage." Our Holy Father added that He anticipated a speedy recovery, vowing that He'd be back out at Heaven's shooting range as early as tomorrow.
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 11, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
We need to update the title of the thread. It's 3.5 years old now.
I just saw this on Yahoo! http://news.yahoo.com/major-survey-shows-gun-ownership-132558989.html
Major survey shows gun ownership declining
Major survey shows gun ownership and hunting at record lows
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 11, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
We need to update the title of the thread. It's 3.5 years old now.
"American Gun Ownership Highest In 3.5 Years" ?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 11, 2015, 11:38:35 AM
What "certain" 5.56 mm ammo were they "threatening" to "ban"?
The XM855 steel-core MIL-SPEC rounds commonly known as "green tips". Some shooters prefer them to the XM193 lead-core MIL-SPEC rounds.
I haven't followed the issue much, though, so I don't know the details. All I know is the ATF suddenly got a bug up its ass about steel-core 5.56 rounds, causing the gun nuts to claim it was a back door attempt to ban AR-pattern rifles.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 11, 2015, 11:38:35 AM
What "certain" 5.56 mm ammo were they "threatening" to "ban"?
Are you Yi-ing me or do you honestly not know?
Assuming the latter, the ATF wanted to ban 5.56x45mm ammo manufactured to M855 specifications. M855 ammo has steel in the core of the projectile that helps it penetrate better than some other 5.56/.223 ammo. ATF's rationale was that they had the authority to ban it under the 1980s legislation banning armor piercing "cop killer" pistol bullets. The 5.56x45mm round is a rifle round and is used primarily in sporting rifles, most commonly AR-pattern rifles. Thus, the ATF's position up until recently was that it was exempt from the law.
Now AR pistols do exist and have for a while but they are not considered a threat to cops. It seems odd that out of the blue the ATF decided to change its position and go after this popular ammo. It's not like we've had an epidemic of cops getting shot by gangbangers wielding AR pistols with those goofy-looking buffer tubes sticking out of the back of the receiver. But it does match the administration's stated desire to use executive measures to go after firearms it doesn't like.
Quote from: derspiess on March 11, 2015, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 11, 2015, 11:38:35 AM
What "certain" 5.56 mm ammo were they "threatening" to "ban"?
Are you Yi-ing me or do you honestly not know?
I 1) honestly did not know, and 2) am wary of your definitions of "threaten" and "ban" when it comes to gun nut bullshit. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 11, 2015, 02:32:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 11, 2015, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 11, 2015, 11:38:35 AM
What "certain" 5.56 mm ammo were they "threatening" to "ban"?
Are you Yi-ing me or do you honestly not know?
I 1) honestly did not know, and 2) am wary of your definitions of "threaten" and "ban" when it comes to gun nut bullshit. :P
Feel free to do your own research. In a sense the issue was a bit overblown. They weren't going after all 5.56 ammo, just a fairly popular version. Had it been banned (and the way the communication was worded they left the door open for doing so in the future), life would go on. There are plenty of other flavors of 5.56/.223 out there.
I'm surprised they decided against banning the ammo (for now) because they previously had used similar rationale to ban importation of the super-cheap Russian surplus 7n6 5.45x39 ammo, which was so cheap that manufacturers started making AR rifles and components chambered for that round.
So yesterday I got to shoot a gun I never knew existed. It was a Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector revolver made on contract for the Canadian army and chambered in .455-- a Canadian soldier carried it in WWII. I'm not a huge revolver guy but it was a pleasure to shoot. Very smooth double action.
Also got to shoot a Luger in .30 Luger with the shoulder stock attached and an M-1 carbine for the first time.
The m-1 carbine is a sweet weapon. :)
Yep, very pleasant. Almost feels like a toy after shooting a high powered rifle, though. I'd like to have one, but in 9mm.
Quote from: derspiess on March 16, 2015, 06:16:19 PM
Yep, very pleasant. Almost feels like a toy after shooting a high powered rifle, though. I'd like to have one, but in 9mm.
This is one thing I always thought was kind of confusing.
I mean, why would you want an M1 in 9mm? Would that really still be an M-1? Isn't the caliber kind of part of what defines the weapon?
If you wanted a 9mm carbine, wouldn't it make more sense to just find a carbine designed for the 9mm to begin with?
Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2015, 06:24:52 PM
This is one thing I always thought was kind of confusing.
I mean, why would you want an M1 in 9mm? Would that really still be an M-1? Isn't the caliber kind of part of what defines the weapon?
If you wanted a 9mm carbine, wouldn't it make more sense to just find a carbine designed for the 9mm to begin with?
Fair question. Basically, I like the look, feel, and sights of an M-1 Carbine but I'm not crazy about the .30 carbine round. If I'm gonna fire a pistol round in a rifle, I'd prefer to it to be a round I already keep in stock and is very widely available. I've seen M-1 Carbine clones in .22 and those would probably be fun to shoot as well.
And there aren't too many 9mm carbines out there. Some AR 9mm kits are being made, but they are hard to get and there isn't yet a consensus on which system is the best. And I think someone actually makes an M-1 Carbine in 9mm, or at least they were going to as of last year's SHOT Show.
My bro had a Korean War era M-1 Carbine. Fucker sold it without giving me a shot at it.
Also, I bought one of these .22 pistols for $130 delivered. I was a little wary due to the low price, but they've gotten good reviews. Didn't have time to shoot it yesterday.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritagemfg.com%2Fimagebank%2FRR22B6_1.jpg&hash=65cdf815a2fadb744fec8ba38dcea9b17eaaaa09)
Quote from: derspiess on March 16, 2015, 06:38:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2015, 06:24:52 PM
This is one thing I always thought was kind of confusing.
I mean, why would you want an M1 in 9mm? Would that really still be an M-1? Isn't the caliber kind of part of what defines the weapon?
If you wanted a 9mm carbine, wouldn't it make more sense to just find a carbine designed for the 9mm to begin with?
Fair question. Basically, I like the look, feel, and sights of an M-1 Carbine but I'm not crazy about the .30 carbine round. If I'm gonna fire a pistol round in a rifle, I'd prefer to it to be a round I already keep in stock and is very widely available. I've seen M-1 Carbine clones in .22 and those would probably be fun to shoot as well.
And there aren't too many 9mm carbines out there. Some AR 9mm kits are being made, but they are hard to get and there isn't yet a consensus on which system is the best. And I think someone actually makes an M-1 Carbine in 9mm, or at least they were going to as of last year's SHOT Show.
Cool, thanks for the explanation. I guess for some reason I kind of thought that caliber was one of those things that largely defined the weapon, but your right - the way to weapon operates, feels, performs, etc., etc. is much more relevant. Although, I guess there is a limit to how much you can mess with the caliber and still maintain those other things.
Learn something new every day!
Quote from: derspiess on March 16, 2015, 06:44:25 PM
Also, I bought one of these .22 pistols for $130 delivered. I was a little wary due to the low price, but they've gotten good reviews. Didn't have time to shoot it yesterday.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritagemfg.com%2Fimagebank%2FRR22B6_1.jpg&hash=65cdf815a2fadb744fec8ba38dcea9b17eaaaa09)
Oh cool. Where did you get it from? Gunbroker or something like that?
Let's give a ten year old girl an AK-47 and tell her to let it rip! :bleeding:
Camera man is lucky he didn't catch a round in the face. Admirable commitment to gender equality though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk-ZMjzcVa0&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on March 16, 2015, 10:12:54 PM
Oh cool. Where did you get it from? Gunbroker or something like that?
From Classicfirearms.com-- had it shipped to a local transfer dealer. Still have not shot it but I'm amazed at the quality for the price. Made in the US, to boot. You can order a .22 magnum cylinder, which I will probably do.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 22, 2015, 01:16:12 AM
Let's give a ten year old girl an AK-47 and tell her to let it rip! :bleeding:
Camera man is lucky he didn't catch a round in the face. Admirable commitment to gender equality though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk-ZMjzcVa0&feature=player_embedded
Bah, kids in Africa shoot them all the time.
Quote from: lustindarkness on April 22, 2015, 08:47:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 22, 2015, 01:16:12 AM
Let's give a ten year old girl an AK-47 and tell her to let it rip! :bleeding:
Camera man is lucky he didn't catch a round in the face. Admirable commitment to gender equality though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk-ZMjzcVa0&feature=player_embedded
Bah, kids in Africa shoot them all the time.
Bet that video ends up on a Korean Central News Agency broadcast about American capitalist child soldiers.
I almost bought an Uzi today, just based on how bitchin' I looked holding it.
Then I remembered it is semi-auto and I passed.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.funnymeme.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2FFunny-gifs-the-sound-of-music-machine-guns.gif&hash=201a5399a2d2c8939626db5eac52d31c434514c5)
Fixed gif
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 06, 2015, 08:49:12 PM
I almost bought an Uzi today, just based on how bitchin' I looked holding it.
Then I remembered it is semi-auto and I passed.
Just pull the trigger a bunch of times really fast. You won't know the difference!
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 06, 2015, 09:03:01 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fv8omVdExrQ9ig%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=64899d045486318dcfee4ade26ee88aa93b000ce)
:lol:
I laughed.
:lol:
I'm likely to buy myself some body armor. Likely a II version, since it is more concealable.
It's death threat season, and it is time to be prepared.
Relax.
I told you to relax, so I'm gonna need you to do that. Relax.
Quote from: Caliga on May 07, 2015, 09:23:07 AM
I told you to relax, so I'm gonna need you to do that. Relax.
You ain't the boss of me!
*runs to his room, puts on a Cure album*
:lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 08:51:25 AM
I'm likely to buy myself some body armor. Likely a II version, since it is more concealable.
It's death threat season, and it is time to be prepared.
The fuck do you need that for?
Quote from: Syt on May 07, 2015, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 08:51:25 AM
I'm likely to buy myself some body armor. Likely a II version, since it is more concealable.
It's death threat season, and it is time to be prepared.
The fuck do you need that for?
His wife just asked for a new car, and he is going to say no; ergo, "it's death threat season."
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 08:51:25 AM
I'm likely to buy myself some body armor. Likely a II version, since it is more concealable.
It's death threat season, and it is time to be prepared.
This discussion may have some good info for you on body armor. It started out that way, anyway. You may not have access to the primo stuff since you are not a security officer at a shopping center, however.
http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/
I'm not joking about the death threats. Sure it is mostly low grade threats, but what the hell? I want cool shit.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 05:35:29 PM
I'm not joking about the death threats.
:hmm:
Try being less of a douche to everyone? :)
Quote from: Caliga on May 07, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 05:35:29 PM
I'm not joking about the death threats.
:hmm:
Try being less of a douche to everyone? :)
if you want to discuss this further, take it to the back room. Otherwise, I'm done.
Sorry dude it was a joke. :sleep:
Quote from: Caliga on May 07, 2015, 06:35:44 PM
Sorry dude it was a joke. :sleep:
Being told that I'm going to be shot in the back in the head, my wife and kids raped and killed isn't a HA HA ED ANGER! moment.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 07, 2015, 06:35:44 PM
Sorry dude it was a joke. :sleep:
Being told that I'm going to be shot in the back in the head, my wife and kids raped and killed isn't a HA HA ED ANGER! moment.
What the hell! :o
EDIT: Taken to the back room
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
Being told that I'm going to be shot in the back in the head, my wife and kids raped and killed isn't a HA HA ED ANGER! moment.
Ok ok, man, sorry. :(
Army. :rolleyes:
QuoteMan arrested in Fayetteville, North Carolina, mall with rifle, ammunition
By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN
Updated 2:28 PM ET, Fri July 3, 2015
Man arrested in North Carolina mall with AR-15 01:32
(CNN)Police arrested a soldier carrying an AR-15 rifle and ammunition at a Fayetteville, North Carolina, mall after officers received multiple reports of an armed man walking through a Macy's department store.
Bryan Wolfinger was tracked down within minutes near the Macy's wing of the Cross Creek Mall on Thursday evening, police said.
He was detained without incident, according to police, and charged with "going armed to the terror of the public."
Wolfinger, who is assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division, was carrying the rifle, a Kevlar vest and multiple ammunition magazines, and he intended to have photographs taken with the gun and the other equipment, CNN affiliate WNCN reported, citing Fayetteville police.
Police have released Wolfinger, and he is "with his chain of command," said Master Sgt. Patrick Malone, a spokesman for 82nd Airborne Division.
"These charges represent actions that are wholly inconsistent with the high standards and values we expect from our paratroopers," Malone said. Fort Bragg is fully cooperating with the police investigation, he said.
While initial reports indicated that a second armed man was in the mall, Wolfinger was found to be acting alone. Officers searched the entire mall to be sure there was no second armed man present, the police statement said.
I didn't realize there was such a crime as the bolded. Makes perfect sense to have it on the books, even if you allow open carry.
Quote from: DGuller on July 03, 2015, 04:17:49 PM
I didn't realize there was such a crime as the bolded. Makes perfect sense to have it on the books, even if you allow open carry.
I was curious...
http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/going-armed-to-the-terror-of-the-people/
QuoteStatute
This is a common law offense. State v. Dawson, 272 N.C. 535, 541-42 (1968); State v. Huntly, 25 N.C. 418, 418 (1843); State v. Staten, 32 N.C. App. 495, 496-97 (1977) (citing Dawson).
Elements
A person guilty of this offense
(1) arms himself or herself with an unusual and dangerous weapon
(2) for the purpose of terrifying others and
(3) goes about on public highways
(4) in a manner to cause terror to the people.
Punishment
Class 1 misdemeanor. G.S. 14-3(a).
Notes
Generally. For the elements of this offense, see Dawson, 272 N.C. at 549, and Staten, 32 N.C. App. at 497.
For a case in which the evidence was sufficient to establish this offense, see, for example, Dawson, 272 N.C. at 549 (armed with a carbine and four pistols, the defendant and three others drove on the public highways at night, firing bullets into a store and two homes).
Element (1). In Huntly, the court held that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Huntly, 25 N.C. at 422. In that case it was argued that a gun cannot constitute an unusual weapon, "for there is scarcely a man in the community who does not own and occasionally use a gun of some sort." Id. The court rejected that argument, concluding: "A gun is an 'unusual weapon,' wherewith to be armed and clad. No man amongst us carries it about with him, as one of his every day accoutrements–as a part of his dress–and never we trust will the day come when any deadly weapon will be worn or wielded in our peace loving and law-abiding State, as an appendage of manly equipment." Id.
In State v. Lanier, 71 N.C. 288, 289 (1874), the defendant was charged with going armed to the terror of the people after riding a horse, at a canter, through a courthouse. Witnesses saw no arms of any kind. The North Carolina Supreme Court "attach[ed] no importance to the fact that the defendant had no arms" stating, "we think it may be conceded that the driving or riding without arms through a court house or a crowded street at such a rate or in such a manner as to endanger the safety of the inhabitants amounts to a breach of the peace and is an indictable offence at common law." Id. at 290.
A horse can be an "unusual weapon". :(
Come mess with us Canada i dare ya!
I get the feeling they added up total guns registered and divided by population.
I'm surprised by Hawaii. :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on July 04, 2015, 07:27:33 PM
I'm surprised by Hawaii. :hmm:
Yeah that was one eye opening to me.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2015, 07:24:11 PM
I get the feeling they added up total guns registered and divided by population.
here is link to report http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2015/06/09/injuryprev-2015-041586.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2 (http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2015/06/09/injuryprev-2015-041586.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2)
The NE will be fucked when the zombie apocalypse hits.
Quote from: katmai on July 04, 2015, 07:48:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2015, 07:24:11 PM
I get the feeling they added up total guns registered and divided by population.
here is link to report http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2015/06/09/injuryprev-2015-041586.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2 (http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2015/06/09/injuryprev-2015-041586.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2)
I'm surprised.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2015, 07:24:11 PM
I get the feeling they added up total guns registered and divided by population.
Don't we have more guns than people?
Quote from: katmai on July 04, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: Caliga on July 04, 2015, 07:27:33 PM
I'm surprised by Hawaii. :hmm:
Yeah that was one eye opening to me.
Probably all the white landowners getting prepped for an independence movement...or the revolution is coming... :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 04, 2015, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 04, 2015, 07:24:11 PM
I get the feeling they added up total guns registered and divided by population.
Don't we have more guns than people?
But that would be the way that you wouldn't want to run the analysis (and assuming they didn't per Yi's comment) as then you'd have a gun nut who has 30 guns upping the percentage of people who "own" guns.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 04, 2015, 10:55:44 PM
Don't we have more guns than people?
I thought that was cars.
Quote from: katmai on July 04, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: Caliga on July 04, 2015, 07:27:33 PM
I'm surprised by Hawaii. :hmm:
Yeah that was one eye opening to me.
Pearl Harbor could be hit at any moment you know.
For all of Texas' reputation we do not even have that high of a percentage. What is up with those peaceniks in Nebraska?
I miss fondling my guns. :cry:
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2015, 01:07:48 PM
For all of Texas' reputation we do not even have that high of a percentage. What is up with those peaceniks in Nebraska?
Maybe there's no reason to have a gun there, 'cause everybody in the state would be a waste of ammo anyway?
I have formally retired my .38 and Walther PPK from CCW use.
Holy crap! :o
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/More-Than-1200-Guns-2-Tons-of-Ammo-Seized-From-West-LA-Home-317730131.html
QuoteLAPD finds 1,200 guns, two tons of ammo in dead man's Pacific Palisades home
By Kate Mather
It wasn't what police expected to find when they searched a man's Pacific Palisades home last week.
More than 1,200 guns were strewn about the Palisades Drive house and garage, police said. The weapons ranged from high-end pistols to shotguns and rifles. Many had never been fired. Some were still wrapped in their boxes, with the price tags still attached.
It was a "staggering number of guns," said LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith. Police also found roughly two tons of ammunition.
"Our truck couldn't carry it all," Smith said. "We had to go back and make another trip."
The unusual discovery came as police investigated the death of the man, whose decomposing body was found in a car parked down the street from his home.
Although the LAPD's elite Robbery-Homicide Division detectives were initially called to handle the case, Smith said, they determined there were no signs of foul play and are not investigating the death as a homicide.
Coroner's officials said Monday evening that the man had not yet been identified and that they still have not determined how he died.
Detectives are also trying to find out why the man had so many guns. Smith said there were no initial indications that the man had a criminal motive, no signs he was smuggling the weapons or plotting any sort of attack.
But, Smith said, the LAPD's gun detail will examine each of the weapons to determine whether they have been linked to any crime.
"We have a lot of work to do," he said. "Running the background, history and legality of these weapons is going to require a tremendous amount of time."
"It's not a crime to have a large number of weapons so long as they were legal to own and legally obtained," Smith said "We want to make sure that's the case."
Follow @katemather for more LAPD news.
Maybe he was trying to equip his own mercenary band.
Whatever happened with the rancher who refused to pay Los Federales for use of the land (or was it water) who raised armed sympathizers?
He told us to go home to our families after the news cameras were gone.
Quote from: derspiess on July 21, 2015, 08:48:32 AM
He told us to go home to our families after the news cameras were gone.
:lol:
Talk about some amazing cookouts, though. Hoo-boy :)
:D
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2015, 08:24:19 AM
Holy crap! :o
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/More-Than-1200-Guns-2-Tons-of-Ammo-Seized-From-West-LA-Home-317730131.html
The man has not been identified but they searched his home. :hmm:
Quote from: Maximus on July 21, 2015, 09:16:12 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2015, 08:24:19 AM
Holy crap! :o
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/More-Than-1200-Guns-2-Tons-of-Ammo-Seized-From-West-LA-Home-317730131.html
The man has not been identified but they searched his home. :hmm:
"The man's identity has not been released."they must have changed the text since.
Sheesh, and it's not like the guy lived on a secluded compound...it's pretty much town/row houses there.
This just got way weirder! :blink:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/23/jeffrey_alan_lash_los_angeles_late_man_s_common_law_wife_left_him_dead_in.html
QuoteA wealthy-seeming man who was about 60 years old died in a nice part of Southern California (Pacific Palisades in L.A., specifically). That's the normal part of this story. Everything else is not normal.
The man's body was found decomposing in a parked car.
No one initially could figure out who he was.
When he was tentatively identified, police found 1,200 guns and FOUR THOUSAND POUNDS OF AMMUNITION in a home belonging to his fiancée, who says she was together with the man—named Jeffrey Alan Lash—for 17 years and that she believed he was a secret agent.
There are 14 vehicles registered to Lash, including one that can drive underwater.
He also had $230,000 in cash.
Lash's fiancée, Catherine Nebron, was with him when he died, in the parking lot of a grocery store, and she parked his body on a street and left because he told her one of the secret agencies he worked for would pick him up.
Then she went to Oregon with her friends.
The L.A. Times reached a woman named Shirley Anderson, the "longtime partner of Lash's late father," who said that the elder Lash owned a medical laboratory and that Jeffrey Lash attended UCLA in the 1980s but dropped out and, thereafter, never told Anderson or his father where he lived or what his phone number was.
Police say Jeffrey Lash had cancer when he died, though he told his fiancée/common-law wife that he was sick because he had been exposed to nerve-damaging chemicals during a mission.
Will they make it a movie?
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 23, 2015, 08:22:48 PM
Will they make it a movie?
If so, needs to star Owen Wilson. He can basically do his Bottle Rocket role over again.
Quote from: derspiess on July 24, 2015, 09:14:00 AM
If so, needs to star Owen Wilson.
That would be perfect! :lol:
Florida takes their shoot first, ask questions later law out for another spin.
http://news.yahoo.com/florida-man-shot-theatergoer-texting-invoke-stand-ground-124807512.html
QuoteMr. Reeves was arrested for the fatal shooting of Chad Oulson in January 2014. Police say Mr. Oulson threw his bag of popcorn in Reeves' face after the former captain criticized him for texting. Reeves responded by pulling out his gun and shooting Oulson in the chest, according to law enforcement. A bullet also grazed Oulson's wife, Nicole.
"I think we have a pretty solid stand your ground case," Richard Escobar, Reeves' attorney, told the Tampa Bay Times.
What is crazy about this is that his lawyer is probably right. The law is so vague and ridiculous, that having popcorn thrown at you is probably, under Florida law, a reasonable threat that justifies killing someone.
Popcorn to the face is a lethal weapon? Nice.
This thread reminds me that I need to get to the range. Thanks Berk!
I will find out more tonight (at a costume stock the bar party :bleeding:) that for a friends' bachelor party we will go on a hog hunt (payback for that 4 OT football game). :thumbsup:
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 30, 2015, 09:44:45 AM
Popcorn to the face is a lethal weapon? Nice.
It's the unpopped bits at the bottom that are truly deadly. :( Like buckshot, they are.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 30, 2015, 09:46:38 AM
This thread reminds me that I need to get to the range. Thanks Berk!
You have to be ready for whenever you have the urge to throw popcorn at some asshole.
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 08:52:17 AM
Florida takes their shoot first, ask questions later law out for another spin.
http://news.yahoo.com/florida-man-shot-theatergoer-texting-invoke-stand-ground-124807512.html
QuoteMr. Reeves was arrested for the fatal shooting of Chad Oulson in January 2014. Police say Mr. Oulson threw his bag of popcorn in Reeves' face after the former captain criticized him for texting. Reeves responded by pulling out his gun and shooting Oulson in the chest, according to law enforcement. A bullet also grazed Oulson's wife, Nicole.
"I think we have a pretty solid stand your ground case," Richard Escobar, Reeves' attorney, told the Tampa Bay Times.
What is crazy about this is that his lawyer is probably right. The law is so vague and ridiculous, that having popcorn thrown at you is probably, under Florida law, a reasonable threat that justifies killing someone.
It will sink soon.
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2015, 10:08:05 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 30, 2015, 09:46:38 AM
This thread reminds me that I need to get to the range. Thanks Berk!
You have to be ready for whenever you have the urge to throw popcorn at some asshole.
Always have my CCW ready. :ph34r:
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 30, 2015, 09:46:38 AM
This thread reminds me that I need to get to the range. Thanks Berk!
because a lot of crazy people have guns, you don't want to be the only crazy without one?
Ed isn't crazy, silly. He's evil.
because only crazy people have guns
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 30, 2015, 09:44:45 AM
Popcorn to the face is a lethal weapon? Nice.
It's the unpopped bits at the bottom that are truly deadly. :( Like buckshot, they are.
As long as the shooter THINKS they are deadly, that is really all that matters.
By the way if this guy actually wins this case it will basically mean the 'stand your ground law' has legalized murder. Hah! Take that Oregon and your wimpy legalization of pot.
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 30, 2015, 09:44:45 AM
Popcorn to the face is a lethal weapon? Nice.
It's the unpopped bits at the bottom that are truly deadly. :( Like buckshot, they are.
As long as the shooter THINKS they are deadly, that is really all that matters.
Hell, if you can shoot a guy for popcorn, imagine what you could do to a guy who farts like Ed. That's a weapon of ass destruction, that is. :D
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2015, 10:53:31 AM
By the way if this guy actually wins this case it will basically mean the 'stand your ground law' has legalized murder. Hah! Take that Oregon and your wimpy legalization of pot.
Legal pot or stand your ground. I'll take the pot.
If this asshole had been a little baked, he might not have been so quick to shoot someone offering him free popcorn.
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 11:14:36 AM
If this asshole had been a little baked, he might not have been so quick to shoot someone offering him free popcorn.
Specially with the price of popcorn at the movies!
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 11:14:36 AM
If this asshole had been a little baked, he might not have been so quick to shoot someone offering him free popcorn.
He's a former police captain.
Incredible.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 30, 2015, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 11:14:36 AM
If this asshole had been a little baked, he might not have been so quick to shoot someone offering him free popcorn.
He's a former police captain.
Incredible.
Given the state of police-civilian relations in the US, you'd expect him to be a
current police captain. ;)
Quote from: The Brain on October 30, 2015, 10:24:53 AM
Ed isn't crazy, silly. He's evil.
Caligula evil or Hitler evil?
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2015, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 30, 2015, 09:44:45 AM
Popcorn to the face is a lethal weapon? Nice.
It's the unpopped bits at the bottom that are truly deadly. :( Like buckshot, they are.
As long as the shooter THINKS they are deadly, that is really all that matters.
Hell, if you can shoot a guy for popcorn, imagine what you could do to a guy who farts like Ed. That's a weapon of ass destruction, that is. :D
:menace:
Quote from: Berkut on October 30, 2015, 08:52:17 AM
Florida takes their shoot first, ask questions later law out for another spin.
http://news.yahoo.com/florida-man-shot-theatergoer-texting-invoke-stand-ground-124807512.html
QuoteMr. Reeves was arrested for the fatal shooting of Chad Oulson in January 2014. Police say Mr. Oulson threw his bag of popcorn in Reeves' face after the former captain criticized him for texting. Reeves responded by pulling out his gun and shooting Oulson in the chest, according to law enforcement. A bullet also grazed Oulson's wife, Nicole.
"I think we have a pretty solid stand your ground case," Richard Escobar, Reeves' attorney, told the Tampa Bay Times.
What is crazy about this is that his lawyer is probably right. The law is so vague and ridiculous, that having popcorn thrown at you is probably, under Florida law, a reasonable threat that justifies killing someone.
This would be funny if it wasn't actually really. :(
http://news.yahoo.com/police-concealed-carry-license-holder-kills-armed-gunman-161526329.html
Concealed carry license holder kills armed gunman
QuoteA customer with a concealed carry license shot and killed an armed man attempting to rob a Chicago neighborhood store, police said Sunday.
A masked man walked into the store and currency exchange about 7 p.m. Saturday on the city's southwest side, displayed a handgun and announced a robbery to an employee, police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said. The gunman then pointed his weapon at another employee and forced her to the back of the store.
The armed customer then fatally shot the man, identified Sunday by the Cook County medical examiner's office as 55-year-old Reginald Gildersleeve. Other details about Gildersleeve weren't released.
No one else was hurt during the incident. It wasn't immediately clear whether the customer, who has not been identified, will face charges. Guglielmi said preliminary details suggest the customer was not at fault, but that the case was under review by local prosecutors.
"We're looking at it as a self-defense issue at this point," he said.
Last month, a Michigan woman with a concealed carry license shot at shoplifters fleeing a Detroit-area Home Depot store, flattening a tire of their SUV. No one was hurt, and the suspected shoplifters were arrested several days later. The woman faces up to 90 days in jail after pleading no contest to a charge of reckless discharge of a firearm. Two other shootings in which citizens fired at lawbreakers or potential lawbreakers also happened in September in Michigan.
"It's a slippery slope" when it comes to the question of whether citizens who are licensed to carry guns should intervene in dangerous situations, if at all, Guglielmi said.
"You have situations like this," he said, referring to the foiled Chicago robbery. "And you have situations that end tragically. The department is not going to advocate for what people should or shouldn't do."
:yeahright:
No doubt that there will be cases, and have been cases, where someone having a gun has saved someone's life, or stopped something bad from happening.
The problem is that you don't get to just have those cases - you also get the CCW guy blowing someone away for throwing popcorn at him, or some vigilante nut job shooting at shoplifters.
Whether or not the inevitable latter cases are justified by the former is the real question.
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 30, 2015, 10:45:00 AM
because only crazy people have guns
serious?
No, of course not. The majority of gun owners are well balanced people, just like the majority of americans or canadians are well balanced people. But you need only a few crazy people with free access to guns to create problems.
I don't think a good solution to robbery is citizenry popping guns off. Should robbers be killed extra judicially?
It's a good solution if you live in the culture of banditry, and the order that is necessary of society to function is itself threatened. What gun nuts seem to ignore is that US has long ago ceased to be such a culture.
Quote from: DGuller on November 02, 2015, 09:08:38 AM
It's a good solution if you live in the culture of banditry, and the order that is necessary of society to function is itself threatened. What gun nuts seem to ignore is that US has long ago ceased to be such a culture.
A lot of Wild West towns had strict "no guns" policies, though, and you had to hand in your guns when you entered.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F40.media.tumblr.com%2F94c35f398d28417a3672f9a1e864abf7%2Ftumblr_nycgr1Yk341qz9bu3o1_500.png&hash=cbeb3bbff316f9f0cd0a759943a93c034b697dc8)
:hmm:
Daddy WANT.
http://www.stdgun.com/dp-12-double-barrel-pump-shotgun/
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.org%2F5ulxn4mjd%2Fimage.jpg&hash=7c7c150f07662549d43deddd69e5185536b55b53)
16 rounds vs my Mossberg Breacher's 5? Yeah, I can dig that.
:yes:
Since I had an intruder last week and the law frowns on claymores and pits filled with punji sticks, I'm thinking of an upgrade.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 18, 2015, 08:56:24 PM
Since I had an intruder last week and the law frowns on claymores and pits filled with punji sticks, I'm thinking of an upgrade.
Anal? A-6?
Quote from: The Brain on December 19, 2015, 03:59:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 18, 2015, 08:56:24 PM
Since I had an intruder last week and the law frowns on claymores and pits filled with punji sticks, I'm thinking of an upgrade.
Anal? A-6?
I didn't know we was playing bingo.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 19, 2015, 10:18:15 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 19, 2015, 03:59:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 18, 2015, 08:56:24 PM
Since I had an intruder last week and the law frowns on claymores and pits filled with punji sticks, I'm thinking of an upgrade.
Anal? A-6?
I didn't know we was playing bingo.
Get with the program and get ready for the big win.
Talking about guns, for a friends bachelor party, we will primitive camp in the woods of TN for a weekend,smoke cigars and shoot stuff.
For Ed.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QnYUAQTFJBQ
That looks like exercise to me. :yuk:
High school football player gives his life shielding three girls from gunfire.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/12/20/high_school_football_player_zaevion_dobson_killed_shielding_girls_from_shooting.html
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 21, 2015, 05:50:55 AM
High school football player gives his life shielding three girls from gunfire.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/12/20/high_school_football_player_zaevion_dobson_killed_shielding_girls_from_shooting.html
(https://www.safariland.com/on/demandware.static/Sites-tsg-Site/Sites-tsg-Library/default/dwda078fc7/brands/brand-landing-images/second-chance-armor/second-chance-armor_row7-1.jpg)
Yes, that's something all 15 year olds should look into getting. :huh:
Doesn't really deserve its own thread:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-21/germans-scramble-buy-weapons-amid-nationwide-spike-migrant-driven-crime (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-21/germans-scramble-buy-weapons-amid-nationwide-spike-migrant-driven-crime)
Quote
All across Germany, a country with some of the most stringent gun-control laws in Europe, demand is skyrocketing for non-lethal self-defense weapons, including pepper sprays, gas pistols, flare guns, electroshock weapons and animal repellants. Germans are also applying for weapons permits in record numbers.
Quote
In recent weeks, German newspapers have published dozens of stories with headlines such as: "Germany is Afraid — And Grabs for the Weapon (http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article149324141/Deutschland-hat-Angst-und-greift-zur-Waffe.html)," "Germans are Arming Themselves: The Demand for Weapons Explodes (http://rtlnext.rtl.de/cms/deutschland-ruestet-auf-waffen-nachfrage-in-den-letzten-monaten-explodiert-2574733.html)," "More and More People are Buying a Weapon (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/boom-immer-mehr-menschen-kaufen-eine-waffe-1.2769959)," "Security: Hands Up! (http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/noerdlingen/Haende-hoch-id36334002.html)" "The Need for Security Increases (http://www.stimme.de/heilbronn/free/sonstige-Das-Sicherheitsbeduerfnis-nimmt-zu;art132111,3530959)," "Boom in Weapons Stores (http://www.daserste.de/information/politik-weltgeschehen/mittagsmagazin/sendung/waffen-selbstschutz-pefferspray-gas-100.html)," and "Bavarians are Arming Themselves— Afraid of Refugees? (http://www.schwaebische.de/region/bayern_artikel,-Bayern-ruesten-auf-aus-Angst-vor-Fluechtlingen-_arid,10356244.html)"
Quote from: citizen k on December 21, 2015, 07:10:06 PM
Doesn't really deserve its own thread:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-21/germans-scramble-buy-weapons-amid-nationwide-spike-migrant-driven-crime (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-21/germans-scramble-buy-weapons-amid-nationwide-spike-migrant-driven-crime)
Quote
All across Germany, a country with some of the most stringent gun-control laws in Europe, demand is skyrocketing for non-lethal self-defense weapons, including pepper sprays, gas pistols, flare guns, electroshock weapons and animal repellants. Germans are also applying for weapons permits in record numbers.
Quote
In recent weeks, German newspapers have published dozens of stories with headlines such as: "Germany is Afraid — And Grabs for the Weapon (http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article149324141/Deutschland-hat-Angst-und-greift-zur-Waffe.html)," "Germans are Arming Themselves: The Demand for Weapons Explodes (http://rtlnext.rtl.de/cms/deutschland-ruestet-auf-waffen-nachfrage-in-den-letzten-monaten-explodiert-2574733.html)," "More and More People are Buying a Weapon (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/boom-immer-mehr-menschen-kaufen-eine-waffe-1.2769959)," "Security: Hands Up! (http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/noerdlingen/Haende-hoch-id36334002.html)" "The Need for Security Increases (http://www.stimme.de/heilbronn/free/sonstige-Das-Sicherheitsbeduerfnis-nimmt-zu;art132111,3530959)," "Boom in Weapons Stores (http://www.daserste.de/information/politik-weltgeschehen/mittagsmagazin/sendung/waffen-selbstschutz-pefferspray-gas-100.html)," and "Bavarians are Arming Themselves— Afraid of Refugees? (http://www.schwaebische.de/region/bayern_artikel,-Bayern-ruesten-auf-aus-Angst-vor-Fluechtlingen-_arid,10356244.html)"
Good for them. Except they're behind the power curve.
Suck it, concealed carrytards. Going to have to stay home and shoot your own black people.
QuoteVirginia to stop recognizing concealed carry gun permits from 25 states
By Jenna Portnoy December 22 at 7:11 PM
The Washington Post
RICHMOND — Virginia Attorney General Mark R. Herring announced Tuesday that the commonwealth will no longer recognize out-of-state concealed handgun permits, part of a national push to circumvent legislatures opposed to tightening gun laws.
Herring (D) said 25 states have lax laws compared with Virginia, where a history of stalking, drug dealing or inpatient mental health treatment can disqualify someone from carrying a concealed handgun. The move is in step with actions governors and attorneys general are taking to address gun violence without going through Republican-controlled legislatures.
"While you are here, you are subject to the commonwealth's gun laws," Herring said during a news conference.
But Herring's office could not say how many people are suspected of crossing into Virginia with concealed weapons to commit crimes, and Republican lawmakers sharply criticized the move, which enforces laws already on the books.
Nevertheless, more than 6.3 million people who could legally carry concealed handguns into Virginia today will lose the privilege when the change takes effect next year. An additional 420,000 Virginians with concealed-carry permits will no longer enjoy reciprocity when they travel to six states.
That includes Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, who said the move will cripple tourism in Virginia.
"I don't go on vacation in states where I can't carry my gun," he said. "Particularly in states like New York or New Jersey, where you really need a gun. I won't go there."
He said there's no reason why Virginia shouldn't join Arizona and Alaska in doing away with concealed-carry permits altogether. If someone can own a gun legally, he said, they should be able to carry it as they please.
But high-profile mass shootings have sent policymakers searching for ways to strengthen laws in the face of partisan pushback.
In October, Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) signed an executive order to ban firearms in state office buildings. And President Obama is considering using his executive authority to bypass Congress to expand background checks.
"This has been where the gun violence prevention movement is going," said Chelsea Parsons, vice president of guns and crime policy at the liberal Center for American Progress. "In much the same way President Obama said I'm not going to wait for Congress anymore, the same can be said for leaders at the state level to really use their authority to take strong meaningful steps on this issue."
Rescinding reciprocity agreements is one of 28 strategies outlined last week in a report co-authored by Parsons on ways states can fight gun crime.
Officials in New Mexico and Florida have revoked reciprocity with a few states, but she said Virginia appears to be the first to undertake a systematic study of agreements. As a result, Herring recommended State Police sever agreements with 25 of the 30 states that recognized Virginia's concealed-handgun permits, effective Feb. 1.
Republicans and gun rights advocates reacted angrily, accusing Herring of politicizing his office to erode the Second Amendment.
"This decision is both dangerous and shameful," said Chris Cox, executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action. "At a time when people are scared and desperately need the ability to defend themselves, Herring has chosen the path of making self-defense harder."
Visitors to Virginia can still carry guns openly or obtain a nonresident permit if they meet the standards set forth in the law for residents.
Unsatisfied with that standard, Del. R. Lee Ware Jr. (R-Powhatan) last month filed a bill calling for universal reciprocity, meaning Virginia would have to recognize permits from all states, the way North Carolina and Tennessee already do. Similar bills never made it to McAuliffe's desk in 2014 and 2015.
"Mark Herring consistently seeks to interpret and apply the law of the commonwealth through the lens of his own personal, political opinions," Virginia House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford) said. "He is damaging the integrity of the office he holds."
But Democrats say Herring is applying Virginia concealed-carry standards set by the General Assembly to everyone who sets foot in the state.
"This action is a reflection of the law a conservative Republican legislature has crafted over the years," Sen. A. Donald McEachin (D-Henrico) said. "And now, when the attorney general actually follows the law, conservative Republicans are squealing about it."
Herring's move is in keeping with his embrace of liberal issues as he seeks a second term.
A former state senator, he gained a national profile for refusing to defend Virginia's same-sex marriage ban and followed up with rulings siding with advocates for abortion rights and immigration reform.
Del. Robert B. Bell III (R-Albemarle), a former state prosecutor and the only declared Republican challenging him in 2017, called it "Washington-style overreach from a nakedly partisan attorney general."
Virginia law lists 20 conditions that would disqualify a person from being issued a concealed carry handgun permit. They include anyone in the United States illegally, subject to a protection from abuse order, or convicted of two or more misdemeanors.
The states losing reciprocity are: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
Agreements will remain with West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas and Utah.
Six states will no longer recognize Virginia's concealed-carry permits because they require mutual recognition of permits. They are: Florida, Louisiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Wyoming.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
Suck it, concealed carrytards. Going to have to stay home and shoot your own black people.
QuoteVirginia to stop recognizing concealed carry gun permits from 25 states
By Jenna Portnoy December 22 at 7:11 PM
The Washington Post
RICHMOND — Virginia Attorney General Mark R. Herring announced Tuesday that the commonwealth will no longer recognize out-of-state concealed handgun permits, part of a national push to circumvent legislatures opposed to tightening gun laws.
Herring (D) said 25 states have lax laws compared with Virginia, where a history of stalking, drug dealing or inpatient mental health treatment can disqualify someone from carrying a concealed handgun. The move is in step with actions governors and attorneys general are taking to address gun violence without going through Republican-controlled legislatures.
"While you are here, you are subject to the commonwealth's gun laws," Herring said during a news conference.
But Herring's office could not say how many people are suspected of crossing into Virginia with concealed weapons to commit crimes, and Republican lawmakers sharply criticized the move, which enforces laws already on the books.
Nevertheless, more than 6.3 million people who could legally carry concealed handguns into Virginia today will lose the privilege when the change takes effect next year. An additional 420,000 Virginians with concealed-carry permits will no longer enjoy reciprocity when they travel to six states.
That includes Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, who said the move will cripple tourism in Virginia.
"I don't go on vacation in states where I can't carry my gun," he said. "Particularly in states like New York or New Jersey, where you really need a gun. I won't go there."
He said there's no reason why Virginia shouldn't join Arizona and Alaska in doing away with concealed-carry permits altogether. If someone can own a gun legally, he said, they should be able to carry it as they please.
But high-profile mass shootings have sent policymakers searching for ways to strengthen laws in the face of partisan pushback.
In October, Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) signed an executive order to ban firearms in state office buildings. And President Obama is considering using his executive authority to bypass Congress to expand background checks.
"This has been where the gun violence prevention movement is going," said Chelsea Parsons, vice president of guns and crime policy at the liberal Center for American Progress. "In much the same way President Obama said I'm not going to wait for Congress anymore, the same can be said for leaders at the state level to really use their authority to take strong meaningful steps on this issue."
Rescinding reciprocity agreements is one of 28 strategies outlined last week in a report co-authored by Parsons on ways states can fight gun crime.
Officials in New Mexico and Florida have revoked reciprocity with a few states, but she said Virginia appears to be the first to undertake a systematic study of agreements. As a result, Herring recommended State Police sever agreements with 25 of the 30 states that recognized Virginia's concealed-handgun permits, effective Feb. 1.
Republicans and gun rights advocates reacted angrily, accusing Herring of politicizing his office to erode the Second Amendment.
"This decision is both dangerous and shameful," said Chris Cox, executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action. "At a time when people are scared and desperately need the ability to defend themselves, Herring has chosen the path of making self-defense harder."
Visitors to Virginia can still carry guns openly or obtain a nonresident permit if they meet the standards set forth in the law for residents.
Unsatisfied with that standard, Del. R. Lee Ware Jr. (R-Powhatan) last month filed a bill calling for universal reciprocity, meaning Virginia would have to recognize permits from all states, the way North Carolina and Tennessee already do. Similar bills never made it to McAuliffe's desk in 2014 and 2015.
"Mark Herring consistently seeks to interpret and apply the law of the commonwealth through the lens of his own personal, political opinions," Virginia House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford) said. "He is damaging the integrity of the office he holds."
But Democrats say Herring is applying Virginia concealed-carry standards set by the General Assembly to everyone who sets foot in the state.
"This action is a reflection of the law a conservative Republican legislature has crafted over the years," Sen. A. Donald McEachin (D-Henrico) said. "And now, when the attorney general actually follows the law, conservative Republicans are squealing about it."
Herring's move is in keeping with his embrace of liberal issues as he seeks a second term.
A former state senator, he gained a national profile for refusing to defend Virginia's same-sex marriage ban and followed up with rulings siding with advocates for abortion rights and immigration reform.
Del. Robert B. Bell III (R-Albemarle), a former state prosecutor and the only declared Republican challenging him in 2017, called it "Washington-style overreach from a nakedly partisan attorney general."
Virginia law lists 20 conditions that would disqualify a person from being issued a concealed carry handgun permit. They include anyone in the United States illegally, subject to a protection from abuse order, or convicted of two or more misdemeanors.
The states losing reciprocity are: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
Agreements will remain with West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas and Utah.
Six states will no longer recognize Virginia's concealed-carry permits because they require mutual recognition of permits. They are: Florida, Louisiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Wyoming.
I fall under LEOSA.
So......................... :blurgh:
Nobody asked you for shit, base cop. Now go put in a work order for the gate arm, Specialist McNutsack says it's acting up again.
QuoteWoman Who Shot at Home Depot Shoplifters: 'I Will Never Help Anybody Again'
U.S. Crime
A Michigan woman who made headlines when she fired at shoplifters attempting to flee a Home Depot parking lot told reporters Wednesday that was the last time she would ever help anyone.
In October, Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, opened fire at two suspects with her legal 9-millimeter handgun as they attempted to flee the store parking lot in an SUV, the New York Times reports. The men got away but were later arrested, and Duva-Rodriguez was charged with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm.
"I made a decision in a split second," Duva-Rodriguez said in one court appearance, according to The Associated Press. "Maybe it was not the right one, but I was trying to help."
On Wednesday Duva-Rodriguez was granted 18 months probation after she entered a plea of no contest to the charge on Oct. 26. Her permit to carry a concealed weapon was revoked until at least 2023.
"I tried to help," Duva-Rodriguez told reporters after being sentenced. "And I learned my lesson that I will never help anybody again."
Ha! Alabama was not included on that list. :moon:
Oh wait, we did not have reciprocity with Virginia anyway. :blush: :Embarrass: :nelson:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
QuoteWoman Who Shot at Home Depot Shoplifters: 'I Will Never Help Anybody Again'
U.S. Crime
A Michigan woman who made headlines when she fired at shoplifters attempting to flee a Home Depot parking lot told reporters Wednesday that was the last time she would ever help anyone.
In October, Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, opened fire at two suspects with her legal 9-millimeter handgun as they attempted to flee the store parking lot in an SUV, the New York Times reports. The men got away but were later arrested, and Duva-Rodriguez was charged with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm.
"I made a decision in a split second," Duva-Rodriguez said in one court appearance, according to The Associated Press. "Maybe it was not the right one, but I was trying to help."
On Wednesday Duva-Rodriguez was granted 18 months probation after she entered a plea of no contest to the charge on Oct. 26. Her permit to carry a concealed weapon was revoked until at least 2023.
"I tried to help," Duva-Rodriguez told reporters after being sentenced. "And I learned my lesson that I will never help anybody again."
Nice to see some sanity in the us.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
QuoteWoman Who Shot at Home Depot Shoplifters: 'I Will Never Help Anybody Again'
U.S. Crime
A Michigan woman who made headlines when she fired at shoplifters attempting to flee a Home Depot parking lot told reporters Wednesday that was the last time she would ever help anyone.
In October, Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, opened fire at two suspects with her legal 9-millimeter handgun as they attempted to flee the store parking lot in an SUV, the New York Times reports. The men got away but were later arrested, and Duva-Rodriguez was charged with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm.
"I made a decision in a split second," Duva-Rodriguez said in one court appearance, according to The Associated Press. "Maybe it was not the right one, but I was trying to help."
On Wednesday Duva-Rodriguez was granted 18 months probation after she entered a plea of no contest to the charge on Oct. 26. Her permit to carry a concealed weapon was revoked until at least 2023.
"I tried to help," Duva-Rodriguez told reporters after being sentenced. "And I learned my lesson that I will never help anybody again."
Remind me: if this had been in Texas, and after sunset, it would have been totally OK?
Quote from: The Brain on December 23, 2015, 03:49:24 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
QuoteWoman Who Shot at Home Depot Shoplifters: ‘I Will Never Help Anybody Again’
U.S. Crime
A Michigan woman who made headlines when she fired at shoplifters attempting to flee a Home Depot parking lot told reporters Wednesday that was the last time she would ever help anyone.
In October, Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, opened fire at two suspects with her legal 9-millimeter handgun as they attempted to flee the store parking lot in an SUV, the New York Times reports. The men got away but were later arrested, and Duva-Rodriguez was charged with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm.
“I made a decision in a split second,” Duva-Rodriguez said in one court appearance, according to The Associated Press. “Maybe it was not the right one, but I was trying to help.”
On Wednesday Duva-Rodriguez was granted 18 months probation after she entered a plea of no contest to the charge on Oct. 26. Her permit to carry a concealed weapon was revoked until at least 2023.
“I tried to help,” Duva-Rodriguez told reporters after being sentenced. “And I learned my lesson that I will never help anybody again.”
Remind me: if this had been in Texas, and after sunset, it would have been totally OK?
If it had been in Florida, she probably could have been charged for NOT shooting at them.
For the all the "then why do the states with the most gun control laws still have so much gun crime, it's gotta be the darkies, blah, blah, blah" NRA-cocksucking mouthbreathers.
QuoteAuthorities announce arrests in illegal gun operation between Tennessee and Baltimore
Jessica Anderson, The Baltimore Sun
The arrest in May of a man suspected of illegally selling eight guns in Baltimore led authorities to what they say is an illegal firearms network that brought more than 400 weapons from Tennessee to the streets of Baltimore this year.
The U.S. attorney's office, Baltimore Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives announced Tuesday the arrests of seven men on federal gun charges. U.S. Attorney Rod J. Rosenstein called the arrests "a significant step in our efforts to reduce violent crime in Baltimore."
There have been 336 homicides in the city this year, the second-highest yearly total on record.
"The individuals arrested weren't the end consumer," Rosenstein said during a news conference. "These individuals were acting as retailers who were planning to quickly resell these weapons to violent criminals in Baltimore City."
Rosenstein said the investigation began with the arrest in May of an immigrant, in the country without legal documentation, who was suspected of trying to illegally sell eight firearms in the city. That led detectives to Tennessee, where authorities arrested a seller in July, seizing 21 guns that were headed to Baltimore, Rosenstein said.
Federal and local agencies continued to work together to track down suspected purchasers, culminating in an undercover operation at a Baltimore motel on Dec. 12, when investigators sold inoperable guns to six suspects before arresting them.
Three defendants were working together to buy a fully automatic machine gun, while three others purchased other firearms, Rosenstein said.
The network was responsible for transporting more than 400 weapons from Tennessee and selling them in Baltimore throughout 2015, said William P. McMullan, special agent in charge of the Baltimore division of the ATF.
"It is definitely one of our most significant cases in a year," McMullan said. "If we weren't able to work together on this, and identify this crew, then this would've just continued."
In August, officials announced a unique partnership between federal law enforcement agencies and Baltimore police homicide detectives to reduce violence. Police Commissioner Kevin Davis said Tuesday that since July, the department has seized 25 percent more firearms than it did during the same period last year.
"In most years, a dramatic increase like that would coincide with a reduction in violence. It hasn't happened this year," he said.
But once investigators "found out a gun trafficker from the state of Tennessee was bringing on average [of] 30 firearms into our city every week, we knew we found a piece of the puzzle," Davis said.
Those charged are Rodney Donell Henson, 28, of Odenton; Antonio Darnell Ennis, 32, of Glen Burnie; Alvin Gabriel Arciaga, 28, of Brooklyn; Delray Jamare Randall, 34, of Odenton; Ernest McCutcheon, 32, of Baltimore; Leopold Fosso Kengni, 24; and Leonard Eugene Goliday, 43, of Laurel.
If convicted, Henson, Ennis, Arciaga and Kengni face up to 15 years in prison for possession of an unregistered machine gun and conspiracy charges. Randall, McCutcheon and Goliday, who are convicted felons, could each face up to 10 years for illegal possession of a firearm.
Attorneys for the defendants declined to comment or could not be reached for comment Tuesday night.
Investigators continue to pursue others associated with the trafficking ring, officials said.
And this is just one ring from one state in Dumbfuckistan. Doesn't even count the guns pouring in from Virginia.
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 19, 2015, 11:52:23 AM
Talking about guns, for a friends bachelor party, we will primitive camp in the woods of TN for a weekend,smoke cigars and shoot stuff.
Some of the more memorable of what I shot this weekend:
Browning 1919
MG42
PK
Thompson with 50 round drum
MP5
PPSH
British STEN
Swedish K
1920 Enfield
Garand
And a ridiculous amount of rifles, shotguns and guns, many fully auto. :)
You didn't happen to see two dudes with no girls while you were out shooting stuff?
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 03, 2016, 07:56:30 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on December 19, 2015, 11:52:23 AM
Talking about guns, for a friends bachelor party, we will primitive camp in the woods of TN for a weekend,smoke cigars and shoot stuff.
Some of the more memorable of what I shot this weekend:
Browning 1919
MG42
PK
Thompson with 50 round drum
MP5
PPSH
British STEN
Swedish K
1920 Enfield
Garand
And a ridiculous amount of rifles, shotguns and guns, many fully auto. :)
How'd you like the ppsh?
PPSH is very nice.
Am in love with the Tommy, now with the silenced MP5 I could actually hit the targets. :D
What did you think of the Swedish K?
Quote from: The Brain on January 04, 2016, 04:06:40 AM
What did you think of the Swedish K?
Great little SMG, small and simple yet effective. Smooth.
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 04, 2016, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 04, 2016, 04:06:40 AM
What did you think of the Swedish K?
Great little SMG, small and simple yet effective. Smooth.
So, much like the Swedish D?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.vocativ.com%2Fphotos%2F2016%2F01%2F2016_01_05-GunVictims-KK.r31099146581.gif&hash=a6e809e9e23adc6faa237d2eb205f2a6606efefc)
Slow start.
Guns are dangerous
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/us/georgia-town-teaches-fight-back-as-option-in-mass-shootings.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
QuoteGeorgia Town Teaches 'Fight Back' as Option in Mass Shootings
DOUGLASVILLE, Ga. — When the police held town hall meetings here in the past, they were lucky to see a half-dozen people. But the topic of the most recent one was "Active Shooter: A Citizen's Guide to Planning for Survival." And the place was packed.
Chief Gary Sparks, an Army veteran with 29 years on the police force, set the mood with an opening chat that was part folksy pep talk and part pragmatic self-defense lecture. The world has changed, he told the crowd: Google the floor plans of stadiums and concert sites before going to them. Study the layout of your grocery store. Make a note of places to make a quick exit or to hide. And be ready to pounce, if you must, with maximum aggression.
"You can't go out here and not have a mind-set to win the fight," Chief Sparks said. "Can't go around here with no sheepish-type mind-set. There ain't no sheep dogs. Everybody in Douglasville, we tigers, lions, bears, elephants, whatever you want to be."
And so it went in this macabre genre of continuing education class, an increasingly common ritual in a firearm-saturated nation where many feel particularly vulnerable after the murderous Islamic State assaults in Paris in November, the bloody attack on a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs two weeks later and the massacre of county employees in San Bernardino, Calif., last month.
Held one night during the week after Christmas, the Douglasville meeting attracted about 80 people: worried retirees, worried office workers, worried teachers and parents, and a worried 21-year-old in a heavy metal T-shirt, Chris Wallace, who said he felt particularly exposed in crowded public places. He was thinking about applying for a concealed carry permit.
"You can never be too safe," he said.
Over the course of 90 minutes, the police encouraged them to adopt a view of the world that was, in essence, the default view of police officers: Keep your head on a swivel. Constantly triage potential threats. Incessantly toggle through angles of escape and plans of attack.
They handed out a stapled packet that defined an "active shooter" as "an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area." It was full of statistics ("Such incidents," it said, occur, "on average, once every five weeks in this country"), mini-primers on the "dynamics of perception" ("Our brains take the shortest route to help us mentally negotiate through unexpected occurrences") and guidelines promulgated by the F.B.I. and Department of Homeland Security known as "Run, Hide, Fight" — the three main options for someone embroiled in an "active shooter" event, with fighting typically recommended as a last resort.
The police screened a video in which a fictional gunman clad in black blasted away at fictional white-collar employees during their mundane workday. "The authorities are working hard to protect you and to protect our public spaces," the baritone narration went. "But sometimes bad people do bad things." The workers were shown running, hiding and, in the end, attacking the gunman as he barged through a door.
The idea of preparing for a mass shooting has been embraced for years by many school systems in the United States, as well as some workplaces: Employees of both the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado and the government agency in San Bernardino County had received such training before the massacres there. But in recent weeks, more sessions like the one here have bloomed nationwide. Hundreds came for a seminar at City Hall in Livonia, Mich. Boy Scout Troop 212 received a lesson in survival from the Iowa City Police Department. Numerous state and local governments — including the tiny town of Level Plains, Ala., and the State of New Hampshire, which employs about 11,000 people — announced expanded training for employees in 2016.
While the odds of an American being involved in an active-shooter event remain extremely slim, a 2014 F.B.I. study showed that about 11 such shootings occurred each year on average between 2000 and 2013, with the frequency increasing.
Public safety officials have long recommended that people evacuate or hide in "lockdown" during attacks, but in the last couple of years officials have also widely accepted fighting back as a last resort. The idea of proactive self-defense was embraced wholeheartedly in Douglasville, a suburban city of 32,000 just west of Atlanta. Danine Mezzell, 57, said she came to the meeting here after sitting in the local mall during the heart of the holiday shopping season wondering how she would survive an attack without her handguns, which she has a permit to carry but which the mall prohibited her from bringing.
"I was like, 'Wow, we're just sitting ducks here,'" she recalled.
Bennie J. Amey, 50, a gospel musician and informational technology worker, said he was glad that the police were emphasizing an aggressive response. He hoped that domestic and foreign terrorists would get the message that Americans "are people who fight."
About halfway through the meeting, the officers showed a second video in which an instructor from ACT Cert, a private "attack countermeasures training" company, told a group of college students how to increase their chances of survival if a gunman broke into their classroom. In the video, many of the students moved out of what the instructor called the "kill zone": the gunman's initial view of the room. Some of them gathered on either side of the door. When a man pretending to be the attacker entered the room, they pounced on him, grabbing his forearms and wrestling him to the floor.
A question-and-answer session followed the video. Kimberly Fugate, 49, a middle school Spanish teacher, said that her public school had a lockdown plan, and that she had told her students to hide and be quiet if there were an attack. "What else can I do?" she asked.
The chief said that if the opportunity presented itself, she could "jab that guy in his eyeball" with a pencil. "You bite his nose off." The students, he said, could kick the attacker while he was down "with a hundred little feets."
The crowd laughed, but some safety experts consider such advice dangerous. "It requires a lot of judgment in terms of whether to fight or not," David Esquith, the director of the federal Department of Education's safety office, said in an interview. "And this is a judgment that only an adult can make."
While mass shootings dominate cable newscasts, they make up a minuscule proportion of the nation's 32,000 gun deaths annually. And the overall crime rate is now half of what it was in 1990, according to the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, and almost a quarter (22 percent) less than it was at the turn of the century.
At the meeting in Douglasville, however, the mood had turned cathartic as people discussed self-defense scenarios. A man in a leather jacket asked how a legally armed person who shot an intruder should act once the police arrived: "Because I don't want to get shot," he said.
Capt. Brad Stafford told him that he should, in that scenario, put his gun down and place his hands on his head.
A man said that his daughter-in-law, a teacher, had complied with the no-weapons rule at her school. But he said that she just happened to keep a claw hammer and a screwdriver with her at all times.
"You never know when she needs to install something," he said. "And that girl from the Bronx would turn you into hamburger."
Quote"You can never be too safe," he said.
Over the course of 90 minutes, the police encouraged them to adopt a view of the world that was, in essence, the default view of police officers: Keep your head on a swivel. Constantly triage potential threats. Incessantly toggle through angles of escape and plans of attack.
That is my default. I am not paranoid, just too much of a negative person. :(
When traveling abroad, where I can't conceal carry, it goes into overdrive. For example, I struggled when we met at a bar in London and I ended up with my back to the entrance, but I did study every beer bottle, pint glass and bar stool as potential weapons. :blush:
That's a reasonable attitude during Languish meets. :P
:lol:
Is Chief an army rank?
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 07, 2016, 10:20:10 AM
Quote"You can never be too safe," he said.
Over the course of 90 minutes, the police encouraged them to adopt a view of the world that was, in essence, the default view of police officers: Keep your head on a swivel. Constantly triage potential threats. Incessantly toggle through angles of escape and plans of attack.
That is my default. I am not paranoid, just too much of a negative person. :(
When traveling abroad, where I can't conceal carry, it goes into overdrive. For example, I struggled when we met at a bar in London and I ended up with my back to the entrance, but I did study every beer bottle, pint glass and bar stool as potential weapons. :blush:
As a Canadian, that just strikes me as utterly bizarre. I've never carried a weapon in a city at least. In the woods, sometimes, purely because of pesky bears.
You can never be too safe.
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 07, 2016, 10:20:10 AM
Quote“You can never be too safe,” he said.
Over the course of 90 minutes, the police encouraged them to adopt a view of the world that was, in essence, the default view of police officers: Keep your head on a swivel. Constantly triage potential threats. Incessantly toggle through angles of escape and plans of attack.
That is my default. I am not paranoid, just too much of a negative person. :(
When traveling abroad, where I can't conceal carry, it goes into overdrive. For example, I struggled when we met at a bar in London and I ended up with my back to the entrance, but I did study every beer bottle, pint glass and bar stool as potential weapons. :blush:
As a Canadian, that just strikes me as utterly bizarre. I've never carried a weapon in a city at least. In the woods, sometimes, purely because of pesky bears.
You have not walked the streets of an American city, or a middle eastern country either. Or had China steal all your personal info while terrorist groups are wanting to kill you.
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 07, 2016, 12:41:06 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 07, 2016, 10:20:10 AM
Quote"You can never be too safe," he said.
Over the course of 90 minutes, the police encouraged them to adopt a view of the world that was, in essence, the default view of police officers: Keep your head on a swivel. Constantly triage potential threats. Incessantly toggle through angles of escape and plans of attack.
That is my default. I am not paranoid, just too much of a negative person. :(
When traveling abroad, where I can't conceal carry, it goes into overdrive. For example, I struggled when we met at a bar in London and I ended up with my back to the entrance, but I did study every beer bottle, pint glass and bar stool as potential weapons. :blush:
As a Canadian, that just strikes me as utterly bizarre. I've never carried a weapon in a city at least. In the woods, sometimes, purely because of pesky bears.
You have not walked the streets of an American city, or a middle eastern country either. Or had China steal all your personal info while terrorist groups are wanting to kill you.
Actually, I spent a season working in Israel ... does that count? Mind you, where were plenty of cute teenaged girls with assault rifles and Uzis around. ;)
I've been through a few US cities - I even survived taking the train through Newark! ;) Mind you, I was not bold enough to actually walk the streets in NJ. :Embarrass:
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 07, 2016, 12:41:06 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 07, 2016, 10:20:10 AM
Quote"You can never be too safe," he said.
Over the course of 90 minutes, the police encouraged them to adopt a view of the world that was, in essence, the default view of police officers: Keep your head on a swivel. Constantly triage potential threats. Incessantly toggle through angles of escape and plans of attack.
That is my default. I am not paranoid, just too much of a negative person. :(
When traveling abroad, where I can't conceal carry, it goes into overdrive. For example, I struggled when we met at a bar in London and I ended up with my back to the entrance, but I did study every beer bottle, pint glass and bar stool as potential weapons. :blush:
As a Canadian, that just strikes me as utterly bizarre. I've never carried a weapon in a city at least. In the woods, sometimes, purely because of pesky bears.
You have not walked the streets of an American city, or a middle eastern country either. Or had China steal all your personal info while terrorist groups are wanting to kill you.
Actually, I spent a season working in Israel ... does that count? Mind you, where were plenty of cute teenaged girls with assault rifles and Uzis around. ;)
I've been through a few US cities - I even survived taking the train through Newark! ;) Mind you, I was not bold enough to actually walk the streets in NJ. :Embarrass:
You might mean 'not stupid enough' rather than bold. :)
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 01:33:06 PM
I've been through a few US cities - I even survived taking the train through Newark! ;) Mind you, I was not bold enough to actually walk the streets in NJ. :Embarrass:
I've walked through Newark a number of times with nothing more dangerous than a stylus. Never even occurred to me to case flight routes :D
Is there something about conceal carrying that turns people into paranoid wusses?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 07, 2016, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 01:33:06 PM
I've been through a few US cities - I even survived taking the train through Newark! ;) Mind you, I was not bold enough to actually walk the streets in NJ. :Embarrass:
I've walked through Newark a number of times with nothing more dangerous than a stylus. Never even occurred to me to case flight routes :D
Is there something about conceal carrying that turns people into paranoid wusses?
I don't think so, I will guess most were already paranoid wusses.
Hey! Wait a minute. :mad:
Quote from: Malthus on January 07, 2016, 01:33:06 PM
I've been through a few US cities - I even survived taking the train through Newark! ;) Mind you, I was not bold enough to actually walk the streets in NJ. :Embarrass:
Walking the streets in New Jersey is perfectly fine, enjoyable even. I mean, assuming you like talking to prostitutes. :)
They're a bore to talk to, they're only interested in one thing. :mad:
Quote from: DGuller on January 07, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
They're a bore to talk to, they're only interested in one thing. :mad:
Would that be that thing? :(
Quote from: garbon on January 07, 2016, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 07, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
They're a bore to talk to, they're only interested in one thing. :mad:
Would that be that thing? :(
Given it's DGuller, I assume it's "please get my accounting work done on time". ;)
Finally shot that .22 single action revolver (I guess it's supposed to be like a Colt replica) last weekend. Nice pistol for plinking. Didn't think I could have that much fun with a revolver.
Quote from: derspiess on February 24, 2016, 09:11:54 PM
Finally shot that .22 single action revolver (I guess it's supposed to be like a Colt replica) last weekend. Nice pistol for plinking. Didn't think I could have that much fun with a revolver.
It doesn't make you feel like you are shooting down Confederate cavalrymen with your Remington 1858?
Quote from: Valmy on February 24, 2016, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 24, 2016, 09:11:54 PM
Finally shot that .22 single action revolver (I guess it's supposed to be like a Colt replica) last weekend. Nice pistol for plinking. Didn't think I could have that much fun with a revolver.
It doesn't make you feel like you are shooting down Confederate cavalrymen with your Remington 1858?
No. Maybe I should draw faces on those tin cans.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/02/25/reports-2-dead-hesston-kansas-workplace-shooting/80954886/
QuoteThree dead plus shooter after Kansas shootings; 14 injured
Three people have died in a series of shootings at three sites near Hesston, Kansas, including a lawn care products factory, authorities said Thursday night.
The alleged shooter also died after a confrontation with law enforcement at the Excel Industries plant, Harvey County Sheriff T. Walton said during a Thursday night news conference.
Walton said all the dead were shot inside Excel Industries and a total of 14 were injured in the shootings, 10 of them critically.
The shooter, an employee of Excel, was armed with a long gun and a handgun, the sheriff said. Police killed the suspect when he began firing on officers, who received the first call about the shooting shortly before 5 p.m. local time. The shooter was dead by 5:23 p.m., Walton said.
The company employs 1,000 people and about 150 of them were on the job at the time, according to Walton.
One shooting took place in Newton, Kansas, with someone in a vehicle suffering a gunshot wound to the shoulder, Walton said. Another person was shot in the leg at another site, Walton said. One person was shot in the parking lot of the Excel site and the remainder inside the factory, Walton said.
There are about four or five crime scenes in Newton, Harvey County, and Excel in Hesston, Walton said.
One witness told KAKE television that the alleged shooter carried what looked to be an AK-47 assault rifle.
Marty Pierce told the news organization he heard his co-workers yelling "fire" and that he narrowly missed being hit.
"They were saying, 'Fire, fire,'" Pierce said. "We didn't know they were getting shot."
Hesston College nearby was on lockdown in the wake of the incident, Walton said.
"This is just a horrible incident that's happened here ... please bear with us as we try to get through this," Walton said. "There's going to be a lot of sad people before this is all over."
Hesston is about 36 miles northwest of Wichita.
Excel Industries is a family-owned business that was founded in 1960, according to the Kansas City Star. The company is a leading maker of turf-care products and distributes its mowing products through Hustler Turf Equipment and BigDog Mower product lines, according to the company's website.
And then there was the Kalamazoo shooting, of course:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/in-kalamazoo-another-mass-shooting/470253/
QuoteA Shooting in Kalamazoo
At least six people are dead, and a 45-year-old suspect is in custody.
On Saturday night, a gunman in Kalamazoo, Michigan, drove around in his car killing people at random in a spree that spanned several hours and left at least six victims dead.
"The rampage began about 6 p.m. Saturday outside an apartment complex on the eastern edge of the Kalamazoo County, where a woman was shot multiple times and seriously wounded," the Washington Post reported. "A little more than four hours later and 15 miles away, a father and son were fatally shot while looking at vehicles at a car dealership. Fifteen minutes after that, five people — including a 14-year-old girl — were gunned down in the parking lot of a Cracker Barrel restaurant."
Said a police spokesman, "We have 9, 10, 11 shell casings at each of these scenes." Police arrested a 45-year-old man with no known criminal history for the murders.
The motive for the shootings is unknown.
Over the last decade there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States, using the FBI threshold of four or more victims in a single incident. "Well-known images from Newtown, Aurora and Virginia Tech capture the nation's attention," USA Today reported in a thorough investigation into the phenomenon, "but similar bloody scenes happen with alarming frequency and much less scrutiny." Still, mass killings account for just 1 percent of murders nationally.
A majority begin with domestic disputes. Most victims know their killers. But the earliest reports from Kalamazoo suggest that most or all of Sunday's victims did not know the killer or one another. Like the D.C. sniper killings of 2002, the seeming randomness of the murders has many in the community and beyond on edge.
On Reddit, a commenter wrote that despite being on the other side of the state, "what I can't get out of my head is all the endless times my dad used to take me out at night (because no annoying sales guys) to look at cars at the local dealerships. It was always kinda peaceful, well lit lot, only ones there. Something so vivid in my head, a good memory with dad, bonding experience kinda thing, talking cars. Ugh. I want to say I can't imagine. But the problem is I can, I absolutely can imagine this all way too clearly. Sometimes my mom came along too, probably would've been the one to stay in the car. Fuck this. People should not have to fear living their lives, just stepping out of their home, going to a car dealership..."
Said another:
Ever since the Batman shooter, my wife has been terrified about going to the movies on midnight screenings or opening day. We generally wait a week or two after movies come out before going to see them and even then we go during the week. Like how sad is that? We can't even go to something as simple as the movies without fear of being shot. The most recent Lafayette one nearly drove her to never set foot in a theater again.
On YikYak, students at Western Michigan University expressed their gratitude to police for apprehending a suspect so quickly, and complained that administrators at their Kalamazoo campus didn't send out an alert to warn them about the gunman in town:
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2016/02/yik_yak/24cb73e94.png)
Crime has fallen dramatically in the last couple decades. But these killings can't help but stoke anxiety many feel as they watch the unlucky few who are devastated by them. The suspect's name and photograph are publicly available, but at this stage don't add anything to the story. So I've chosen to exclude them, lest others get the idea that they can get their name and face before the public if only they slaughter fellow humans. I don't know if denying infamy would reduce mass killings.
But isn't it worth trying?
Shot a 12-gauge yesterday for the first time in my life. The hunting load was easy enough to shoot but the hotter & heavier shot self defense loads had a ridiculous kick. Still fun to shoot-- shredded anything you shot.
Quote from: derspiess on February 28, 2016, 08:38:04 PM
Shot a 12-gauge yesterday for the first time in my life. The hunting load was easy enough to shoot but the hotter & heavier shot self defense loads had a ridiculous kick. Still fun to shoot-- shredded anything you shot.
You never shot a 12 gauge before? I'm surprised.
One of my fond memories as a teen was making the ultimate redneck video - my buddy had an old TV that didn't work right, just got one channel. We put it on an old truck bed he used out back for target practice (this is of course in the country) and I blew it up with a 12 gauge loaded with a slug, while he filmed it. It blew up real good. :D Had a kick like a mule, of course.
That was years ago, I wonder where that movie is now. Probably long gone.
Once met a young woman who took a 12 gauge point-blank to the gut when her boyfriend showed up at her job, August 1993.
Buckshot erased most of everything involved with her blood flow, but since the force of the muzzle blast managed to bunch up most of her organs into her chest cavity and temporarily stanch the bleeding, she had to wait about an hour before she was finally able to die.
Well, there's a fun story.
What can I say, guns are fun.
I liked my story better. :(
She probably threatened him, and he just Stood His Ground.
Quote from: Malthus on February 29, 2016, 05:36:04 PM
You never shot a 12 gauge before? I'm surprised.
I've never been a shotgun guy. I shot my dad's 20 gauge (ugly bolt action hunting gun) a while back and my grandmother's .410 pump action (really nice gun, worth a decent chunk of change). But shotguns never much appealed to me.
QuoteOne of my fond memories as a teen was making the ultimate redneck video - my buddy had an old TV that didn't work right, just got one channel. We put it on an old truck bed he used out back for target practice (this is of course in the country) and I blew it up with a 12 gauge loaded with a slug, while he filmed it. It blew up real good. :D Had a kick like a mule, of course.
That was years ago, I wonder where that movie is now. Probably long gone.
Blowed up real good. Sweet.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com%2Fprodimages%2F29558-DEFAULT-l.jpg&hash=fc12d1d2263a105ae4b546184e68b44443335e5f)
:hmm:
I didn't know they had bolt action shotguns.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2016, 05:54:35 PM
I didn't know they had bolt action shotguns.
Yeah, there's a reason they're so rare. My brother has a 20 gauge and a .410 from the same manufacturer. They were made in the 60s. Ugly and not worth much.
Fucking grim. :(
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/03/10/police-search-for-two-attackers-who-they-say-opened-fire-near-pittsburgh-killing-five/
Quote
'My whole family was massacred.' Police search for two attackers they say shot and killed six near Pittsburgh
By Mark Berman March 10 at 5:30 PM
Police in Pennsylvania are searching for a pair of attackers who they say opened fire at a backyard party in a Pittsburgh suburb Wednesday night. Authorities say the death toll had risen to six by Thursday — a tally that police said included a pregnant woman and her eight-month-old fetus.
No motive has been offered by authorities investigating the mass shooting, which also injured three other people, and no suspects have been identified. However, officials said it appeared this was not a spur-of-the-moment attack, and instead described it as a premeditated assault targeting specific people.
"It was an ambush," Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen A. Zappala Jr. told reporters Thursday.
Zappala offered a grim accounting of the attack, describing one attacker firing at people behind the house to drive them toward the home — and right into the path of another attacker firing a rifle at them.
"It was premeditated, it was calculated, it was planned," Zappala said during a briefing. "It's just a brutal murder. It's one of the most brutal I've seen. I've been the D.A. for 18 years, I haven't seen something like this during my tenure."
Investigators were looking at possible suspects, but they "don't have enough" to arrest or bring anyone in yet, Charles Moffatt, superintendent of the Allegheny County Police Department, said at a news conference Thursday afternoon. But he said police had not determined a possible motivation for the attack.
"It could be anything," said Moffatt, who has announced plans to retire later this month. "Everything is on the table."
The Allegheny County police said that a 911 call came in shortly before 11 p.m. Wednesday about a shooting at a home in Wilkinsburg, a small borough just east of Pittsburgh. Police said they found four people dead on the home's back porch — three women and a man — and another four who were injured. All eight had been shot during what appeared to be a cookout in the back yard, authorities said.
The man was shot and went down trying to get into the doorway, and the three women were shot trying to get over him and into the house, Moffatt said.
A woman who was injured in the shooting died at a hospital. Two men who were injured remained in critical condition Thursday, while another woman was treated and released.
Children inside the home at the time of the shooting were not injured, according to Moffatt.
Allegheny County officials on Thursday morning identified the five people killed as Tina Shelton, 37; Shada Mahone, 26; and three siblings: Jerry Shelton, 35; Brittany Powell, 27; and Chanetta Powell, 25. Authorities did not immediately identify a cause of death for them, though police had said all of them were struck by gunfire.
Zappala said the pregnant woman — identified later by police as Chanetta Powell — was due to give birth in May.
Moffatt told reporters that the medical examiner's office had officially deemed the unborn baby a homicide victim, which he said pushed the death toll to six.
"It just breaks my heart," Jessica Shelton, who said she lost three of her six children and two nieces in the attack and that one of the men in the hospital is her son, said during a tearful news conference Thursday.
Shelton mentioned that in addition to her relatives, there were other people — "three young gentleman" — who attended the cookout, and questioned how they avoided injury.
"My whole family was massacred," she said. "Why didn't these three guys get hurt?"
Zappala said that authorities believe "possibly one, maybe two people were targeted," while the other victims appeared to be innocent bystanders. He said that investigators were working through a number of potential theories behind the shooting and had "eliminated a couple of different possible motives."
Police have not recovered the weapons so far, but they found 48 shell casings at the scene, Moffatt said.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives joined the investigation Thursday and was offering a $20,000 reward for help, according to Christopher Taylor, assistant special agent in charge of the bureau's Philadelphia division.
Authorities recounting the chaotic scene that unfolded Wednesday night said people fleeing the initial gunfire were driven into a hail of bullets from a second shooter.
"It looks like right now they were all fleeing toward the back door of the residence when the second gunman fired from the side of the yard," Lt. Andrew Schurman of the Allegheny County police told reporters at a different briefing after the shooting. "And they all seemed to get caught on the back porch."
Zappala said that the first attacker used a .40-caliber handgun to fire at people behind the house, while another attacker wielding what he called "an AK-47-type" rifle was waiting for them when they headed toward the home.
"They just pushed them toward the door, and right into the path of the rifle," Zappala said.
Photos from the scene showed a residential street littered with police evidence markers.
"This street is always quiet. There is nothing but kids on this street," Kayla Alexander, a local resident, told WPXI. "I'm shaken, so it's pretty bad."
This rampage is the latest in a series of shooting sprees that have shaken communities nationwide, coming just weeks after attacks in Hesston, Kan., and Kalamazoo, Mich. Since last year, mass shootings have erupted at locations as disparate as a holiday party in San Bernardino, Calif.; a community college in Roseburg, Ore.; and a church in Charleston, S.C.
"Wilkinsburg is a community filled with grief, shock and anger this morning," Allegheny County Executive Rich Fitzgerald said in a statement Thursday. "We share their grief and offer them our support in the days and weeks to come."
The community in Wilkinsburg, not far from affluent neighborhoods in Pittsburgh, has faced problems with its schools and grappled with poverty. Wilkinsburg has about 15,000 residents, and it is poorer than surrounding Allegheny County as well as the state; one in five Wilkinsburg residents are living in poverty, according to census figures.
"We are devastated and saddened by this news, and we will not be complacent and let our homes, our streets and our neighborhoods be taken from us," Patrick Shattuck, president of the Wilkinsburg Borough Council, said in a statement.
Shattuck said that Wilkinsburg residents awoke Thursday " as a top story on the national news and in headlines," and vowed that the community would continue to rally together in the face of the attack after the national attention faded away.
Michael Miller contributed to this post, which has been updated.
They're as bad as drunk drivers. They just won't die.
QuoteGun lovin' Florida mom says 4-year-old son shot her in the back
PALATKA, Fla. -- A north Florida woman told deputies her 4-year-old son shot her in the back while he was sitting in the back seat of her pickup truck.
25 Photos
America's favorite guns
A Putnam County Sheriff's Office news release says a deputy saw 31-year-old Jamie Gilt of Jacksonville behaving frantically inside the truck Tuesday afternoon and quickly realized she'd been shot.
The release says the woman told deputies her son accidentally shot her. He wasn't harmed and was reunited with family members. The Department of Children and Families will investigate.
I'd shoot her...on her back.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
Well, she's a looker.
She has the makings of a Fox News commentator.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 10, 2016, 11:34:18 PM
She has the makings of a Fox News commentator.
Not blonde
Chicks generally look good in cowboy hats.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 10, 2016, 11:46:11 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 10, 2016, 11:34:18 PM
She has the makings of a Fox News commentator.
Not blonde
Only half of them are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjR_jv3uNlE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjR_jv3uNlE)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2016, 12:09:12 AM
Chicks generally look good in cowboy hats.
False. It's annoying.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d3/c6/70/d3c67045a2596572e7f953a4d4a04cfa.jpg)
That chick does look good in a cowboy hat.
I thought any sane human being would conclude that it is a really bad idea to let four year olds have access to firearms.
Quote from: Monoriu on March 11, 2016, 10:40:35 AM
I thought any sane human being would conclude that it is a really bad idea to let four year olds have access to firearms.
Apparently, it is a more or less self-correcting problem. :hmm:
She failed to teach the kid rule # 2, double tap.
Quote from: lustindarkness on March 11, 2016, 11:44:46 AM
She failed to teach the kid rule # 2, double tap.
It's amazing it was required with a .45.
Quote from: lustindarkness on March 11, 2016, 09:53:54 AM
That chick does look good in a cowboy hat.
Looks like a pimp hat to me.
And another example why I don't have a gun :P
Far more likely to get shot myself than I would ever use it against a bad guy.
Your sometimes-it-is-good-we-can-carry-guns story of the day....
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/customer-shoots-masked-hatchet-wielding-attacker-in-burien-store/
QuoteA customer shot and killed a hatchet-wielding man attacking a clerk at a convenience store in Burien Sunday morning.
By Rachel Lerman
Seattle Times staff reporter
A customer shot and killed a hatchet-wielding man attacking a clerk at a convenience store in Burien on Sunday morning.
About 5:45 a.m., a masked man about 40 years old walked into a 7-Eleven store near South 110th Street and Eighth Avenue South and swung a hatchet at a customer, said King County Sheriff's Sgt. Cindi West. The man then went behind the counter and attacked the 58-year-old clerk, never saying anything.
Within seconds, a customer pulled out a handgun and shot and killed the attacker, likely saving the clerk's life, West said. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
The 60-year-old customer buys coffee from the store almost every morning, West said, and he sits and chats with the clerks. He has a permit to carry a concealed handgun, West said.
The clerk who was attacked told a KIRO 7 reporter that he would have been killed had it not been for the customer. The regular customer is a "very nice" guy, the clerk said.
The clerk has a minor injury on his stomach, West said.
The identities of the three people involved were not released.
An investigation is continuing.
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
Hatchet Murderer Lives Matter?
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
No one cares about the bad guy been dead. :duh:
Quote from: lustindarkness on March 14, 2016, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
No one cares about the bad guy been dead. :duh:
Of course. I know that no one cares about the mentally ill.
Quote from: lustindarkness on March 14, 2016, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
No one cares about the bad guy been dead. :duh:
He made the mistake of taking a hatchet to a gunfight.
If only that guy had been properly armed - with a
gun - his death might have been avoided! :D
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 04:19:39 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on March 14, 2016, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
No one cares about the bad guy been dead. :duh:
Of course. I know that no one cares about the mentally ill.
Only about my wife (she has to be mentally ill if she married me right?).
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
Mixed I suppose.
If the hatchet man was mentally ill, and his situation got to the point that it did...obviously not a good situation.
But since it did, good that someone was there with the means to stop it.
Quote from: Malthus on March 14, 2016, 04:21:51 PMHe made the mistake of taking a hatchet to a gunfight.
If only that guy had been properly armed - with a gun - his death might have been avoided! :D
my guess is the attacker would have lived, and the clerk would be dead. savior would have either hid or died in an attempt to be a hero. probably hid. guns are really dangerous, and people react differently toward them than much lesser dangerous weapons. ban all guns! :) (except hunting rifles to exterminate the deer)
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 14, 2016, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2016, 03:57:00 PM
Is that good? Someone still ended up dead.
Mixed I suppose.
If the hatchet man was mentally ill, and his situation got to the point that it did...obviously not a good situation.
But since it did, good that someone was there with the means to stop it.
I mean clearly if someone had to die, better the deranged one - particularly from the perspective of the would be victim. Still not a particularly great outcome.
We'll get by somehow.
You know, someone walking around with a hatchet would make me a hell more nervous than the morons that open carry guns around here. :hmm: Kinda weird.
Well you haven't seen me open carry my Mosin Nagant 91/30 with bayonet attached!
Quote from: derspiess on March 14, 2016, 05:23:09 PM
Well you haven't seen me open carry my Mosin Nagant 91/30 with bayonet attached!
We've probably gotten accustomed to weirdo war re-enactors as well. :P
Yup, chalk up another loss for the Shall Chop/May Chop Concealed Hatchet crowd.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 14, 2016, 05:59:50 PM
Yup, chalk up another loss for the Shall Chop/May Chop Concealed Hatchet crowd.
:lol: yea
Some shop is making a semi-auto centerfire version of the StG44. Will accept STANAG magazines and will be available in original 8mm Kurz, 5.56 NATO, & 7.62x39. Will be available this summer for $1799. Guess I need to sell off some stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxrZA8DyczQ
Also American Tactical Imports got approval from the ATF to import a semi-auto MP40. Should be an interesting summer.
Forged by the crackers of old during the First Age, it glows when unarmed black teens in hoodies are nearby. derweiß will rechristen it
Skittles Slayer.
QuoteMorning Mix
The gun George Zimmerman said he used on Trayvon Martin is up for auction again after being delisted
By Wesley Lowery, Travis M. Andrews and Niraj Chokshi May 12 at 4:12 PM
Washington Post
After one online gun seller pulled his listing, George Zimmerman has found a new website on which he plans to auction the gun he said he used to kill Trayvon Martin.
Zimmerman initially posted the 9mm pistol on GunBroker.com on Wednesday night, more than four years after he shot and killed Martin, an unarmed black teenager.
"I am honored and humbled to announce the sale of an American Firearm Icon," read Zimmerman's description of the gun, a Kel-Tec PF-9. "The firearm for sale is the firearm that was used to defend my life and end the brutal attack from Trayvon Martin on 2/26/2012."
But on Thursday morning, that listing vanished from Gunbroker, which later said in a statement that it wanted "no part" in the sale of a firearm whose use in the fatal 2012 shooting in Florida sparked a nationwide debate over race relations and "stand your ground" laws.
"We reserve the right to reject listings at our sole discretion, and have done so with the Zimmerman listing," the statement read. "We want no part in the listing on our web site or in any of the publicity it is receiving."
Undeterred, Zimmerman found a new place to sell the weapon.
"Unfortunately, Gun broker was not prepared for the traffic and publicity surrounding the auction of my firearm," he said in an email to The Post on Thursday. "It has now been placed with another auction house."
Todd Underwood, owner of UnitedGunGroup.com, confirmed Thursday afternoon that Zimmerman's gun is now listed on his site, which Underwood described as a "pro-Second Amendment community" created this year after Facebook banned private gun sales.
"I talked to George Zimmerman earlier today and told him that as long as all laws are being followed, he can list the gun on our site," Underwood told The Post. "I don't support it, I don't condone it, I don't have anything against it. It's his property, it's his decision."
Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder and manslaughter in the fatal shooting of Martin in Sanford, but was acquitted by a Florida jury in July 2013.
"Why shouldn't he be selling it?!" Underwood said when asked about outrage sparked by Zimmerman's auction plans. "Here's the thing, parents lost their child and as a father it breaks my heart to even contemplate going through what they went through.
"But when you look at the facts of the case, he was charged and he was exonerated by a jury of his peers. This shouldn't even be a story. A gentleman who did nothing wrong is selling a personal possession of his to the highest bidder."
Zimmerman said in the listing that proceeds of the auction will be used to "fight [Black Lives Matter] violence against Law Enforcement officers" and to "ensure the demise of Angela Correy's persecution career and Hillary Clinton's anti-firearm rhetoric," though he hasn't described how that would happen.
Corey, whose name was misspelled, is the special prosecutor who was appointed by then-Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) to investigate Martin's shooting death.
An attorney for Martin's family said Thursday that Zimmerman's plan to auction the gun was "insulting and disrespectful."
"It is insulting to this family that he would decide that he would sell the gun that he killed their child with," Daryl D. Parks, one of the attorneys for the family, told The Washington Post. "Think about what that means: This is a gun that took a child's life, and now he wants to make money off of it."
On both auction websites, Zimmerman claimed the case number from the trial is written on the gun in permanent marker and that "The Smithsonian Museum in Washington D.C." has expressed interest in "owning and displaying the firearm," though he did not specify which museum.
The Smithsonian Institution, which operates 19 museums, refuted that claim Thursday morning, before the gun disappeared from the auction site.
We have never expressed interest in collecting George Zimmerman's firearm, and have no plans to ever collect or display it in any museums
— Smithsonian (@smithsonian) May 12, 2016
"The firearm is fully functional as the attempts by the Department of Justice on behalf of B. Hussein Obama to render the firearm inoperable were thwarted by my phenomenal Defense Attorney," Zimmerman wrote, "I recognize the purchaser's ownership and right to do with the firearm as they wish."
He closed the description with si vis pacem para bellum, which means "If you want peace, prepare for war" in Latin.
Bidding opens at $5,000.
Zimmerman told Fox affiliate WOFL on Wednesday that he "recently received [the gun] back from the Department of Justice. They took it after my trial, after I was exonerated."
He told the Orlando station that he had received death threats since listing the firearm on Gunbroker.com but decided to continue with the sale anyway.
"What I've decided to do is not cower," he said. "I'm a free American. I can do what I want with my possessions."
Parks, the attorney for Martin's relatives, said Thursday that "the family does not want to dignify this with a response. Everyone agrees this is insulting and disrespectful. Without question, as time passes, we are seeing more and more the real person — who George Zimmerman really is versus who he was portrayed to be by his defense team."
Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) criticized Zimmerman's decision to sell the gun in a statement issued shortly before the sale was halted then moved to the second auction site.
"Trayvon Martin's cold-blooded killer should be in prison," Jeffries said. "Instead, he is trying to profit from the stunning miscarriage of justice that occurred three years ago in a Florida courtroom. It should shock the conscience of every decent American that this man is peddling his murder weapon for sale. America must reject this merchant of death once and for all."
This isn't the first time Zimmerman has caused controversy by selling a personal item. In August, he teamed up with Florida Gun Supply — a store that had publicly declared itself a "Muslim-free zone" — to sell prints of a painting by Zimmerman depicting a Confederate battle flag. It included the inscription, "The 2nd protects our 1st," presumably referring to the Second and First amendments.
I wonder at which point his supporters would be able to see past the fact that he shot a black guy, and realize that this bozo is a liability they'd rather not be associated with?
5 thousand. :lmfao:
Don't look at me, I said Zimmerman was a shithead from the beginning.
Someone ought to buy it and cap his ass with it.
Buying a handgun tomorrow.
Quote from: derspiess on May 12, 2016, 08:29:39 PM
Don't look at me, I said Zimmerman was a shithead from the beginning.
That's only because he was Hispanic.
You can take the girl out of NBC, but you can't take the NBC out of the girl...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/business/media/audio-of-couric-interview-shows-editing-slant-in-documentary-site-claims.html?_r=0
Quote from: derspiess on May 26, 2016, 03:43:51 PM
You can take the girl out of NBC, but you can't take the NBC out of the girl...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/business/media/audio-of-couric-interview-shows-editing-slant-in-documentary-site-claims.html?_r=0
Doh!
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 26, 2016, 04:30:59 PM
Quote from: katmai on May 12, 2016, 09:55:36 PM
Buying a handgun tomorrow.
What for?
Pretty sure the auction winner has to make payment within 7 days.
:nelson: :nelson: :nelson: :nelson: :nelson:
QuoteAmerica
Federal Appeals Court Says There Is No Right To Carry Concealed Weapons In Public
June 9, 20166:05 PM ET
Richard Gonzales
NPR
A federal appeals court in California ruled today that local authorities have the right to require people to obtain permits before carrying concealed weapons in public.
In a 7-4 decision, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the Second Amendment right to bear arms does not include carrying a concealed gun. The ruling upholds a California handgun permit law, one of the toughest in the country. The opinion is binding only in the Western states covered by the 9th Circuit (Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington).
The decision reverses a 2014 ruling by a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit that found California's handgun control law unconstitutional.
Judge William Fletcher wrote for the full-court majority:
"The right of a member of the general public to carry a concealed firearm in public is not, and never has been, protected by the Second Amendment. Therefore, because the Second Amendment does not protect in any degree the right to carry concealed firearms in public, any prohibition or restriction a state may choose to impose on concealed carry — including a requirement of 'good cause,' however defined — is necessarily allowed by the Amendment."
The case involves gun owners in two California counties, San Diego and Yolo, who were denied permits to carry concealed weapons. Under state law, applicants have to show good moral character, have a good cause and take a training course.
At the heart of the dispute was the interpretation of "good cause."
AS NPR's Kirk Siegler reported for NPR's Newscast Unit:
"Basically applicants for a concealed-carry weapons permit in San Diego County had to demonstrate that they were in some sort of immediate danger — they were, say, carrying a large sum of money, or their life was clearly at risk. In other words, they couldn't just get a concealed-carry permit on the basis of self-defense alone."
Gun rights groups challenged California's handgun law as an infringement of the Second Amendment. Agreeing with them in a dissent was Judge Consuelo Callahan:
"The Second Amendment is not a 'second-class' constitutional guarantee. ... The majority fails to recognize the real impact of the counties' policies on the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms."
Doesn't the 9th circuit have good track record on not being reversed?
Oh maybe not. My bad.
http://www.abajournal.com/mobile/mag_article/a_sixth_sense_6th_circuit_has_surpassed_the_9th_as_the_most_reversed_appeal/
Of course there isn't. That is why you need permits and state laws to do so :huh:
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:34:20 PM
Of course there isn't. That is why you need permits and state laws to do so :huh:
This I agree
Gratuitous crotch shot just for you, 11B--
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.geekdo-images.com%2Fimages%2Fpic3079228.jpg&hash=8b2ce52b6c15cd6c9e5139b5921a8b3d4a134e10)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2016, 10:47:25 PM
Gratuitous crotch shot just for you, 11B--
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcf.geekdo-images.com%2Fimages%2Fpic3079228.jpg&hash=8b2ce52b6c15cd6c9e5139b5921a8b3d4a134e10)
Funny packs, how out of style.
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 09:34:20 PM
Of course there isn't. That is why you need permits and state laws to do so :huh:
:yes: The 2nd Amendment, as currently interpreted, only guarantees right to ownership.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2016, 10:52:21 PM
Funny packs, how out of style.
It's just too fucking hot for a second shirt, man.
Although, they are so completely out of style that the only thing fanny packs say is GUN. :lol: I think that one is 20 years old.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2016, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2016, 10:52:21 PM
Funny packs, how out of style.
It's just too fucking hot for a second shirt, man.
Although, they are so completely out of style that the only thing fanny packs say is GUN. :lol: I think that one is 20 years old.
Glad to see responsible folks packing packing heat. No pun intended. :cheers:
I carry a Bersa 380 when in summer attire. P250 is the cooler attire piece.
I like my Walther PPK. I can pretend I'm Hitler.
Do you walk around saying "Diese manner bleiben... Jodl, Krebs, und Burgdorf." :)
Quote from: Caliga on June 30, 2016, 12:39:26 PM
Do you walk around saying "Diese manner bleiben... Jodl, Krebs, und Burgdorf." :)
I yell at clouds.
"das war ein befehl! Regen jetzt!" :cool:
Once in a while, I get a hankering to carry my P-38, but then I realize there are no ezzential verkers to shoot.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2016, 12:53:24 PM
Once in a while, I get a hankering to carry my P-38, but then I realize there are no ezzential verkers to shoot.
Lightning?
Of course. Can't trust a plane that doesn't have propellers.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2016, 12:53:24 PM
Once in a while, I get a hankering to carry my P-38, but then I realize there are no ezzential verkers to shoot.
I have no Reich handguns to carry :weep:
My CCW (when I actually get a license) is a Polish P64. I guess I can pretend I'm Marti.
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2016, 02:20:39 PM
My CCW (when I actually get a license)
You don't have one yet? Surprising. :hmm:
He has things to do.
No need for one to defend the house from the cops.
Quote from: Caliga on June 30, 2016, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2016, 02:20:39 PM
My CCW (when I actually get a license)
You don't have one yet? Surprising. :hmm:
It's one of those things on my to do list, just not a huge priority at the moment. Plus, actually carrying concealed is annoying and uncomfortable and I would rarely make use of it. And every time I get pulled over the cops would assume I'm packing and would act extra weird.
I'll probably do it eventually.
Annoying and uncomfortable? And why do you keep getting pulled over?
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2016, 03:20:35 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 30, 2016, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2016, 02:20:39 PM
My CCW (when I actually get a license)
You don't have one yet? Surprising. :hmm:
It's one of those things on my to do list, just not a huge priority at the moment. Plus, actually carrying concealed is annoying and uncomfortable and I would rarely make use of it.
I'll probably do it eventually.
I don't even notice it
Quote from: lustindarkness on June 30, 2016, 03:49:21 PM
Annoying and uncomfortable?
Having a weapon strapped anywhere to me is uncomfortable.
QuoteAnd why do you keep getting pulled over?
I don't, come to think of it. But with my luck as soon as I get my CCW I'd start getting pulled over all the time.
Oh, and as to the "annoying" part, having to go back to your car and stow your weapon every time you stop at a "no carry" business or wherever would be super-annoying.
Get a better holster, I still don't see the problem with getting pulled over. If you don't think it is worth carrying for your specific situation, then don't.
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
Oh, and as to the "annoying" part, having to go back to your car and stow your weapon every time you stop at a "no carry" business or wherever would be super-annoying.
Ahh, that would depend on state law.
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2016, 03:20:35 PM
Plus, actually carrying concealed is annoying and uncomfortable and I would rarely make use of it.
Either get a small pistol like a Bersa Thunder OR a nice carry holster, like this one:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Fwww.stormcrowgroup.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2FCrossbreed-SuperTuck-Deluxe-Empty.jpg&hash=d8af0357ea1881f335637608283edb6453cf58e3)
Obviously there's extra weight when you carry which is weird but I don't find this holster uncomfortable at all. I carry a Beretta PX4 Storm in it.
Where exactly do you wear that monstrous thing? :hmm:
Granted you live in the frigid north so maybe you just naturally wear more clothes to stash it in.
:lol: Frigid north? We got like five inches of snow all winter this year and it's been hot as fuck since late March/early April, basically.
It's an IWB holster. Wear it on my left hip.
Quote from: Caliga on July 01, 2016, 08:33:50 AM
:lol: Frigid north? We got like five inches of snow all winter this year and it's been hot as fuck since late March/early April, basically.
It's an IWB holster. Wear it on my left hip.
Five inches of snow in a year? *boggle*
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2016, 08:35:14 AM
Five inches of snow in a year? *boggle*
:huh: You surely got less than that down in Austin?
Granted, we do get more than that some years, but very rarely more than 15-20.
:lol: What kind of Sons of Anarchy bullshit is that?
Quote from: Caliga on July 01, 2016, 08:36:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2016, 08:35:14 AM
Five inches of snow in a year? *boggle*
:huh: You surely got less than that down in Austin?
Granted, we do get more than that some years, but very rarely more than 15-20.
I was boggling at the enormous volume of ice and snow you yankees must endure of course :P
:lol:
ugh, now i think i want to return my gun if Caliga has one too...
Quote from: katmai on July 01, 2016, 02:42:58 PM
ugh, now i think i want to return my gun if Caliga has one too...
Don't worry, I'm sure you guys don't really have same guns. Your gun probably has all the parts it came with.
MAH FIRING PIN
There are many varieties of carry options
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13528388_10209487345651747_755473607095050262_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
I might be near Cal in the middle of October for the Knob Creek machinegun shoot. I think the Twins deserve to shoot a MG42.
And I might be able to get them Das Reich T- Shirts. :w00t:
das ist wunderbar
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/9a1c15079dfae4d8122f524c994a001b/tumblr_nwhr6w9Zlr1rjssvvo1_400.jpg)
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/57560200.jpg)
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 13, 2016, 07:16:50 PM
I might be near Cal in the middle of October for the Knob Creek machinegun shoot.
We should have a Colonels' meetup. :cool:
:rolleyes:
Don't anger me, Ed.
Don't be clingy, Cal.
A female "friend" wants me to go gun shopping with her tomorrow. This is bound to be an experience.
She is afraid of the "Muds" after today. Otay!
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 17, 2016, 06:16:07 PM
A female "friend" wants me to go gun shopping with her tomorrow. This is bound to be an experience.
She is afraid of the "Muds" after today. Otay!
AAR:
salesman: you need this *points out thousand dollar 1911*
Me: you don't need that. The Smith and Wesson 38 is lighter and a revolver is easier to use
Salesman: but you need the stopping power of a 45 round!
Me: she isn't fighting Huks
Her: Oooooo! That one is pink!
"I'm not here to repeal the 2nd Amendment. I'm not here to take away your guns. I just don't want you to be shot by someone who shouldn't have a gun in the first place." -Hillary Clinton
Bought a gun the other day.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Bought a gun the other day.
A black family moved into the neighborhood, I see.
UK police fired their guns seven times in the year to March 2016.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-police-shooting-statistics-discharge-firearms-figures-freddie-gray-baton-killings-homicide-a7160391.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-police-shooting-statistics-discharge-firearms-figures-freddie-gray-baton-killings-homicide-a7160391.html)
On average?
Quote from: mongers on July 30, 2016, 04:27:03 PM
UK police fired their guns seven times in the year to March 2016.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-police-shooting-statistics-discharge-firearms-figures-freddie-gray-baton-killings-homicide-a7160391.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-police-shooting-statistics-discharge-firearms-figures-freddie-gray-baton-killings-homicide-a7160391.html)
Pussies
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 30, 2016, 07:28:39 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Bought a gun the other day.
A black family moved into the neighborhood, I see.
There be Negra's about.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsliptalk.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2F18211013%2Fredneck-fails-10.jpg&hash=98145c70fb44a8c95193c47e01e31624bbbe9299)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 30, 2016, 07:28:39 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Bought a gun the other day.
A black family moved into the neighborhood, I see.
:blurgh:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13662254_10209730294245310_331840734065668845_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Stumped, huh?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FN7Z9S9y.jpg&hash=afba2ee30c5af95a2d8f67ff1f2b66449a5669bc)
I took delivery of my new gun.
A Vepr-12 LEGK02.
Name to be determined.
"LEGK02 My Eggo"?
Also I haven't been to the range in like 2+ months. Wife reminded me tonight, then instantly regretted it.
Quote from: derspiess on August 25, 2016, 08:29:05 PM
"LEGK02 My Eggo"?
https://www.legionusa.com/vepr-12-shotgun-legk02.html
*FAP*
Great. First, derszechuan goes all ChiCom on us, now Ed's filming in glorious PutinVision. Barf.
:lol:
I'm ready for the upcoming race war.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 25, 2016, 08:37:20 PM
Great. First, derszechuan goes all ChiCom on us, now Ed's filming in glorious PutinVision. Barf.
ChiCom? I have Polish, Romanian, Yugo & Soviet stuff. Never owned anything ChiCom.
Which one of you sovereign citizen fucknuts has the ChiCom SKS then? Is that Ed?
My SKS is Yugoslavian. Has a folding bayonet and a NATO standard grenade launcher attachment on the muzzle. Never know when you'll need that.
Yugoslobian. Even disgustier.
Quote from: derspiess on August 26, 2016, 11:10:30 AM
My SKS is Yugoslavian. Has a folding bayonet and a NATO standard grenade launcher attachment on the muzzle. Never know when you'll need that.
If Marshall ever decides to storm the field in Morgantown?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 26, 2016, 11:11:10 AM
Yugoslobian. Even disgustier.
It's pristine. Or it is now that I got all that cosmoline gunk off it. Even came with its maintenance log book. It was manufactured December 25, 1970 and never issued out to anyone. They periodically cleaned it, test fired it, and put it back into storage until it was taken out of service in 2002. Looks like it was pretty much forgotten about during the wars of the 90s.
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2016, 11:14:05 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 26, 2016, 11:10:30 AM
My SKS is Yugoslavian. Has a folding bayonet and a NATO standard grenade launcher attachment on the muzzle. Never know when you'll need that.
If Marshall ever decides to storm the field in Morgantown?
We have claymores set up for that. That's assuming they get past the burning couches.
Lol Fucking Tito would have shop hours on Christmas Day wouldn't he
Yuppers. But as the factory was in Serbia, I'm guessing the workers would have observed Christmas in January anyway.
Can only imagine the number of Chinese take-out places and Jewish delis open in Yugoslavia, Xmas '70.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 26, 2016, 11:06:34 AM
Which one of you sovereign citizen fucknuts has the ChiCom SKS then? Is that Ed?
My SKS-M is Romanian. Like I'd buy chinese weapons. Or tools. Or food.
Cheap ass cracker
Big Dawg is ready for action.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14117753_10209988952231598_6261598268018665631_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=a015f4a032e0cb863f6fefd02a357c06&oe=5849D1BD)
Not enough pew pew and scary black parts.
Chicom stuff is expensive, though. I can remember they had the market flooded with commercial SKSes and people were frequently getting them for as little as $85. Now they're going for well over $500.
Took the Vepr to the range.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2554/4137274551_1d12ab907d.jpg)
I was going to post on this in the Ohio thread, but it involves an AR-15 and a crazy white boy, so: consistency.
QuoteMother of three survives car crash — only to be gunned down by the other driver, police say
http://wapo.st/2bAdXS8
:bleeding: How can you confuse an AR-15 with an AK-47?
Quote from: DGuller on August 31, 2016, 06:39:45 PM
:bleeding: How can you confuse an AR-15 with an AK-47?
Yes please explain this travesty. :mad:
MAYBE THE CLIP WASNT CURVED I DONT KNOW
Quote from: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Bought a gun the other day.
It's cute, small, fits right in your pocket? Right in your pocket?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 31, 2016, 06:45:59 PM
MAYBE THE CLIP WASNT CURVED I DONT KNOW
THATS IT. WARNING LEVEL INCREASE BUDDY.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 31, 2016, 06:56:01 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Bought a gun the other day.
It's cute, small, fits right in your pocket? Right in your pocket?
It's long and beautiful.
One more time for the firearms retarded challenged folks
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi440.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq122%2Fmojo00_pics%2FStuff%2Fclip-vs-magazine-gun-500x394.jpg&hash=a41c44860618357827e810e5200166acdd051e40)
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 26, 2016, 09:29:49 PM
Not enough pew pew and scary black parts.
It's Scandinavian. We're not savages here you know.
I am. I want scary black weapons.
Or a My little pony AR-15. For the kids.
Quote from: 11B4V on August 31, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
One more time for the firearms retarded challenged folks
Who cares?
Quote from: garbon on September 01, 2016, 04:04:25 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 31, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
One more time for the firearms retarded challenged folks
Who cares?
We have already established in the Valmy-is-not-a-Christian thread that you do not care about meaning of words, only that people speak nicely and softly to each other.
But for those of us who do not live in the lalaland, words still matter.
Quote from: Martinus on September 01, 2016, 04:11:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 01, 2016, 04:04:25 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 31, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
One more time for the firearms retarded challenged folks
Who cares?
We have already established in the Valmy-is-not-a-Christian thread that you do not care about meaning of words, only that people speak nicely and softly to each other.
But for those of us who do not live in the lalaland, words still matter.
Oh you care about the parts of the gun?
Also, I think you took the wrong lesson given that I said I wouldn't consider V to be Christian.
Quote from: Martinus on September 01, 2016, 04:11:37 AM
We have already established in the Valmy-is-not-a-Christian thread that you do not care about meaning of words, only that people speak nicely and softly to each other.
But for those of us who do not live in the lalaland, words still matter.
Ah man. I felt like we had connected on the religion thing. And hey can we keep my religion in the appropriate thread? That would be great.
QuoteThe Opinion Pages | Editorial
Missouri: The Shoot-Me State
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
SEPT. 16, 2016
In an alarming victory for the gun lobby, Missouri's Republican-controlled Legislature voted Wednesday to override Gov. Jay Nixon's veto and enact a wholesale retreat from gun safety in the state.
The law will let citizens carry concealed weapons in public without a state gun permit, criminal background check or firearms training. It strips local law enforcement of its current authority to deny firearms to those guilty of domestic violence and to other high-risk individuals. And it establishes a dangerous "stand your ground" standard that will allow gun owners to shoot and claim self-defense based on their own sense of feeling threatened.
The measure has drawn no great national attention, but it certainly provides further evidence that gun safety cannot be left to state lawmakers beholden to the gun lobby. Democrats opposed to the Missouri bill called it a "perfect storm" of lowered standards for the use of deadly force and an invitation for people to be armed without responsible controls. The measure was enacted by the Republicans, despite strong public opposition and warnings about the threat to public safety from the state Police Chiefs Association. Everytown for Gun Safety, one of the groups fighting the gun lobby, noted that stand your ground laws result in disproportionate harm to communities of color.
Mr. Nixon, a Democrat, vetoed the measure in June, saying it would allow individuals with a criminal record to legally carry a concealed firearm even though they had been, or would have been, denied a permit under the old law's background check. Mayors Sly James of Kansas City and Francis Slay of St. Louis warned against restricting the power of the local police to deny guns to those who commit domestic violence. They cited sharp spikes in domestic violence homicides in their cities, and they noted that the police would be left at greater risk by this bill.
Republican legislative leaders, who cut short debate on the override vote on the last day of the session, were ebullient in overriding a variety of the governor's vetoes beyond the gun measure, including one that will force voters to show a government photo ID.
Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, a lawmaker from Ferguson, which erupted in protests after the 2014 fatal police shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed African-American teenager, warned that enacting the stand-your-ground standard would mean another "bad Samaritan like Zimmerman." She was referring to the shooting death in Florida four years ago of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, by George Zimmerman; in that case the judge's instructions to the jury contained some of the language of the stand your ground law.
Missouri is joining 10 other states that loosened gun laws to allow concealed firearms in public without the need for a permit. Federal gun controls still require background checks on buyers, but only at federally licensed dealers. Unfortunately, there is a separate and busy uncontrolled market where buyers at gun shows and on the internet do not have to undergo background checks.
In the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton has called for extensive gun safety measures, including a ban on the assault weapons favored by mass shooters, closing background-check loopholes, ending the gun industry's outrageous protection from civil damage suits and denying guns to risky suspects on the government's no-fly lists. Donald Trump, endorsed by the National Rifle Association, favors more armed civilians ready to engage in what he calls a defensive "shootout." This is one of the most pathetic measures yet of his pandering, when he should be leading, on an issue of vital importance to the public.
Best of luck out there in the Dumbfuckistan Tribal Areas, Raz. Shoot straight.
Quote from: 11B4V on September 01, 2016, 06:28:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 01, 2016, 04:04:25 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 31, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
One more time for the firearms retarded challenged folks
Who cares?
I do.
"A clip by any other name would shoot as straight" - with apologies to Shakespeare. ;)
I remember reading something from a firearms expert, who mocked all those newly-baked experts drawing distinction between clips and magazines. He said that for all his career, people called magazines clips and no one was either confused or bothered by it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 17, 2016, 03:21:46 PM
QuoteThe Opinion Pages | Editorial
Missouri: The Shoot-Me State
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
SEPT. 16, 2016
In an alarming victory for the gun lobby, Missouri's Republican-controlled Legislature voted Wednesday to override Gov. Jay Nixon's veto and enact a wholesale retreat from gun safety in the state.
The law will let citizens carry concealed weapons in public without a state gun permit, criminal background check or firearms training. It strips local law enforcement of its current authority to deny firearms to those guilty of domestic violence and to other high-risk individuals. And it establishes a dangerous "stand your ground" standard that will allow gun owners to shoot and claim self-defense based on their own sense of feeling threatened.
The measure has drawn no great national attention, but it certainly provides further evidence that gun safety cannot be left to state lawmakers beholden to the gun lobby. Democrats opposed to the Missouri bill called it a "perfect storm" of lowered standards for the use of deadly force and an invitation for people to be armed without responsible controls. The measure was enacted by the Republicans, despite strong public opposition and warnings about the threat to public safety from the state Police Chiefs Association. Everytown for Gun Safety, one of the groups fighting the gun lobby, noted that stand your ground laws result in disproportionate harm to communities of color.
Mr. Nixon, a Democrat, vetoed the measure in June, saying it would allow individuals with a criminal record to legally carry a concealed firearm even though they had been, or would have been, denied a permit under the old law's background check. Mayors Sly James of Kansas City and Francis Slay of St. Louis warned against restricting the power of the local police to deny guns to those who commit domestic violence. They cited sharp spikes in domestic violence homicides in their cities, and they noted that the police would be left at greater risk by this bill.
Republican legislative leaders, who cut short debate on the override vote on the last day of the session, were ebullient in overriding a variety of the governor's vetoes beyond the gun measure, including one that will force voters to show a government photo ID.
Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, a lawmaker from Ferguson, which erupted in protests after the 2014 fatal police shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed African-American teenager, warned that enacting the stand-your-ground standard would mean another "bad Samaritan like Zimmerman." She was referring to the shooting death in Florida four years ago of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, by George Zimmerman; in that case the judge's instructions to the jury contained some of the language of the stand your ground law.
Missouri is joining 10 other states that loosened gun laws to allow concealed firearms in public without the need for a permit. Federal gun controls still require background checks on buyers, but only at federally licensed dealers. Unfortunately, there is a separate and busy uncontrolled market where buyers at gun shows and on the internet do not have to undergo background checks.
In the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton has called for extensive gun safety measures, including a ban on the assault weapons favored by mass shooters, closing background-check loopholes, ending the gun industry's outrageous protection from civil damage suits and denying guns to risky suspects on the government's no-fly lists. Donald Trump, endorsed by the National Rifle Association, favors more armed civilians ready to engage in what he calls a defensive "shootout." This is one of the most pathetic measures yet of his pandering, when he should be leading, on an issue of vital importance to the public.
Best of luck out there in the Dumbfuckistan Tribal Areas, Raz. Shoot straight.
Here's what passes for Political discourse here in Missouri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wqOApBLPio
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 12:20:41 PM
I remember reading something from a firearms expert, who mocked all those newly-baked experts drawing distinction between clips and magazines. He said that for all his career, people called magazines clips and no one was either confused or bothered by it.
He's an idiot.
Quote from: 11B4V on September 18, 2016, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 12:20:41 PM
I remember reading something from a firearms expert, who mocked all those newly-baked experts drawing distinction between clips and magazines. He said that for all his career, people called magazines clips and no one was either confused or bothered by it.
He's an idiot.
I have a novel and ground-breaking theory. The only people who actually care about gun nomenclature are idiots.
Example: 11B4V
Quote from: Razgovory on September 18, 2016, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 18, 2016, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 12:20:41 PM
I remember reading something from a firearms expert, who mocked all those newly-baked experts drawing distinction between clips and magazines. He said that for all his career, people called magazines clips and no one was either confused or bothered by it.
He's an idiot.
I have a novel and ground-breaking theory. The only people who actually care about gun nomenclature are idiots.
Example: 11B4V
You should worry more about your idiotic state. You idiots allowed them to get in power. So learn your nomenclature and weapons handling dumbfuck. You're going to need it.
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
I would never call a tracked and turreted AFV with thick armor and a big gun a tank, for that very reason.
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
Why would he throw you an M1 clip. :huh: If you asked for an M16 clip he would throw you
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/ar-m-m-kalashnikov-cartridges-ammo-clip-isolated-wh-image-white-50874994.jpg)
Hell Raz probably calls the AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-7 Sparrow, and AGM-65's rockets. What does it matter.
Quote from: 11B4V on September 18, 2016, 03:15:23 PM
Hell Raz probably calls the AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-7 Sparrow, and AGM-65's rockets. What does it matter.
Why not? The Russians would. :P
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
There are arguments both ways. One in favor of calling magazines magazines is that I think people say clip because they think it sounds cool and gangsterish.
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
:huh: it matters when your buddy leaves you to die because you called it a clip
Mocking up some goodies for the mountain bike this hunting season.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14409855_10210207325930804_963003559223240904_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
For Seedy. :P
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14352513_10210207310690423_6855763865440989406_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Oh good grief.
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
I actually do know the difference, it's just that I don't care. It's like the difference between a cobbler and a cordwainer.
Quote from: 11B4V on September 18, 2016, 05:52:44 PM
Mocking up some goodies for the mountain bike this hunting season.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14409855_10210207325930804_963003559223240904_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
What's the third leg of the Idaho triathalon?
Fuck even the hipsters are armed In the states
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2016, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
There are arguments both ways. One in favor of calling magazines magazines is that I think people say clip because they think it sounds cool and gangsterish.
I suspect it originally derives from the opposite reason: not young wanna be gangstas, but old dudes used to using clips in past army days who continued to call what they put into guns "clips" even though they were in fact magazines.
The thing about people angrily using knowing the difference like a shibboleth for knowing shit about guns seems reasonably recent.
11B has gun Assburgers. Sad!
NRA OCD
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 19, 2016, 08:42:51 AM
NRA OCD
Heh. Where is the widespread outrage over misuse of the word "gun"? :D
THIS IS MY RIFLE THIS IS MY GUN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U
Is that a gun in your pocket?
Quote from: HVC on September 19, 2016, 12:35:54 AM
Fuck even the hipsters are armed In the states
A lot of areas are closed to motorized traffic. A bike gets you where you need to go.
Quote from: 11B4V on September 19, 2016, 06:42:43 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 19, 2016, 12:35:54 AM
Fuck even the hipsters are armed In the states
A lot of areas are closed to motorized traffic. A bike gets you where you need to go.
As out of shape as I am, I'm not sure there's a force on Earth that could get my lardass anywhere that's more than a half mile from a motorable road.
Quote from: Malthus on September 19, 2016, 07:56:06 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2016, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I'm all for precise nomenclature when it matters, but does this particular thing matter? If you're in a firefight, you run out of ammo for your M-16, and ask your buddy for a clip, is he going to be all confused while digging through his backpack for an M1 Garand strip?
There are arguments both ways. One in favor of calling magazines magazines is that I think people say clip because they think it sounds cool and gangsterish.
I suspect it originally derives from the opposite reason: not young wanna be gangstas, but old dudes used to using clips in past army days who continued to call what they put into guns "clips" even though they were in fact magazines.
The thing about people angrily using knowing the difference like a shibboleth for knowing shit about guns seems reasonably recent.
Naw. It comes from ignorant people watching too many movies.
The "old guys" had the M1911, BAR, M1 carbine, Thompson, etc. Look in the manuals in WW2, they say magazine.
A clip of ammo charges a magazine. There are a few exceptions. Even a Garand has a magazine.
It's just the politics of distraction. If the NRA wingnuts scream "ZOMG ITS A MAGAZINE NOT A CLIP" and prattle on about the legal minutiae of upper receivers long enough and loud enough, they're hoping you'll forget about things like background checks, gun show loopholes, and a pile of ventilated six-year old bodies in an elementary school bathroom.
I bet 11B4V doesn't even know the difference between an oyster fork and a snail fork. Disgraceful.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 19, 2016, 07:01:49 PM
It's just the politics of distraction. If the NRA wingnuts scream "ZOMG ITS A MAGAZINE NOT A CLIP" and prattle on about the legal minutiae of upper receivers long enough and loud enough, they're hoping you'll forget about things like background checks, gun show loopholes, and a pile of ventilated six-year old bodies in an elementary school bathroom.
You just work on reloading your revolver mister.
Quote from: 11B4V on September 19, 2016, 07:13:13 PM
You just work on reloading your revolver mister.
ZOMG YOU FORGOT SA/DA
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2016, 07:06:56 PM
I bet 11B4V doesn't even know the difference between an oyster fork and a snail fork. Disgraceful.
Easy way for you to remember 3 and 2.
We're not savages here you know.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/62/0f/50/620f50642483e3ab8cb3959a0932e4ff.jpg)
Quote from: dps on September 19, 2016, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 19, 2016, 06:42:43 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 19, 2016, 12:35:54 AM
Fuck even the hipsters are armed In the states
A lot of areas are closed to motorized traffic. A bike gets you where you need to go.
As out of shape as I am, I'm not sure there's a force on Earth that could get my lardass anywhere that's more than a half mile from a motorable road.
I'm with you in most cases, but trout fishing and seclusion is enough to get me to bike several miles into the Cranberry Wilderness Area.
Ed's dream women firing at home intruders.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/gwinnett-county/video-shows-woman-shooting-at-invaders-during-gwinnett-home-invasion/448984282
Fuckers know when to come off the blocks and hit the jets, don't they? :lol:
QuoteAs they exchange fire with drywall debris clouding the dark home, the video shows one man run through a glass door.
Another man died of his injuries in the driveway.
:nelson:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 01:52:21 AM
Fuckers know when to come off the blocks and hit the jets, don't they? :lol:
like the three stooges, but with more gun fire.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 18, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
I actually do know the difference, it's just that I don't care. It's like the difference between a cobbler and a cordwainer.
There's all the distinction in the world between those two words. One is a delicious Southern dessert, and the other is a word only used by actual hobbits like mongers.
Quote from: Lettow77 on September 24, 2016, 05:36:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 18, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
I actually do know the difference, it's just that I don't care. It's like the difference between a cobbler and a cordwainer.
There's all the distinction in the world between those two words. One is a delicious Southern dessert, and the other is a word only used by actual hobbits like mongers.
:lol:
Quote from: HVC on September 24, 2016, 12:05:34 AM
Ed's dream women firing at home intruders.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/gwinnett-county/video-shows-woman-shooting-at-invaders-during-gwinnett-home-invasion/448984282
Between this and a story about a 13 year old girl smacking a robber with a baseball bat makes my pants very soggy.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 24, 2016, 08:28:48 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 24, 2016, 12:05:34 AM
Ed's dream women firing at home intruders.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/gwinnett-county/video-shows-woman-shooting-at-invaders-during-gwinnett-home-invasion/448984282
Between this and a story about a 13 year old girl smacking a robber with a baseball bat makes my pants very soggy.
From pissing yourself because some females fight back, no doubt.
Quote from: dps on September 24, 2016, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 24, 2016, 08:28:48 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 24, 2016, 12:05:34 AM
Ed's dream women firing at home intruders.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/gwinnett-county/video-shows-woman-shooting-at-invaders-during-gwinnett-home-invasion/448984282
Between this and a story about a 13 year old girl smacking a robber with a baseball bat makes my pants very soggy.
From pissing yourself because some females fight back, no doubt.
That's more of a derspiess thing :D
Any odds that The Donald brings up his Turkish background up during the debate tomorrow night?
QuoteAuthorities seeking motive in Washington state mall shooting that killed five
Washington Post
Authorities said Sunday they did not yet know why a 20-year-old man in Burlington, Wash. shot five people dead with a rifle at a Macy's makeup counter over the weekend. The suspect, Arcan Cetin, was described by high school friends and neighbors as a troubled person who made vulgar comments toward women.
Cetin is expected to face first-degree murder charges when he appears Monday in Skagit County District Court, about 60 miles north of Seattle.
A legal permanent resident of the U.S. who immigrated to this county as a young child from Adana, Turkey, Cetin graduated last year from high school in Oak Harbor, a rural community in western Washington about 30 miles from the mall where he is accused of opening fire Friday night. Sheriff's deputies apprehended him Saturday evening walking down a sidewalk in Oak Harbor, carrying a satchel with a computer inside.
On Sunday, police appeared to have found few clues to explain the violence, which killed a man and four women, including a teenager who had beat cancer and an elderly woman and her daughter who were shopping.
"Our hearts are broken by the senseless act of violence that took the lives of Barry's brother Mike's wife, Belinda, and her mother, Bea, in the shooting at the Burlington Mall," Krita Galde, the sister in law of one of the victims, Belinda Galde, posted on Facebook on Sunday. "They were both such gracious, kind, beautiful ladies that loved their families above all else."
Washington State Patrol spokesman Sgt. Mark Francis said in an interview that police were searching Cetin's vehicle and "a residence in Oak Harbor," a city of about 22,000 on Whidbey Island with a nearby Naval Air Station.
Francis said police had recovered the rifle used in the shooting, although he declined to describe the weapon. Cetin appeared on a mall surveillance camera in a black short-sleeved shirt, shorts and shoes entering the Cascade Mall in Burlington empty-handed on Friday evening. Later he apparently showed up at the the Macy's counter with a weapon.
"As far as where he got the gun, that's what we hopefully will be able to find out in the next few days," Francis said.
A motive for the attack, or whether Cetin acted with any accomplices, was also unclear. Some published reports described an ex-girlfriend who worked at Macy's but left months ago. "No indications yet [of either terrorism or that he did not act alone] but the case is still open, it's still active so anything is possible. Anything could change," Francis said.
"It's hard for me to figure out a motive," echoed Mayor Steve Sexton of Burlington.
In posts on his Facebook page, Cetin described himself as working as a bagger at Whidbey Island Commissary. In high school, he was in a junior Reserve Officers Training Corps program. Social media accounts apparently belonging to Cetin showed an affinity for the military and for video games, although authorities said Sunday they had only confirmed his Facebook account.
He posted on Facebook last year that he was molested by a relative in Turkey as a young boy — and that he wanted to get what happened "off my chest."
Friends and neighbors described a young man who has gotten in trouble with the law several times, with three assault charges since 2015.
Several of Cetin's former classmates described him as a socially awkward teenager who later was given to inappropriately touching female students.
"He had some kind of issues, to say the least," Miranda Schnecker, who knew Cetin from middle school and high school, said in an interview. "He was just very awkward, didn't know how to connect with people — and a lot of people didn't know how to handle that, so he wasn't very popular."
It was in high school, she said, when Cetin began physically harassing girls in school.
"He would touch them inappropriately when they didn't want it," said Schnecker, 20.
Another classmate, Rosie Aguilera, said Cetin would try to touch her and other young women at the school "as some kind of joke to him."
She remembered Cetin as being awkward but also piping up frequently with needling comments in the Algebra 2 class they shared at Oak Harbor.
"He liked to talk a lot," Aguilera, 19, said in an interview over Facebook. "Most times the things he said threw people off."
Cetin has been in and out of court over the last two years, most recently for a drunk driving charge. In 2014 and 2015, he was charged three times with assaulting his step-father, court records show. As of May, court records also suggest that Cetin may have been working as a dishwasher and attending college. A notation in those records on August 25 indicate that he was receiving some type of weekly counseling. The court records refer to alcohol, substance abuse and mental health evaluations. They include notes stating that Cetin "was in treatment" or receiving "counseling" as far back as a year and a half ago.
Police said Sunday they would not comment on Cetin's criminal history. Neither his mother nor his stepfather could be reached for comment.
Jon Johnson, 26, an autobody painter, who shares a backyard fence with Cetin's family, said he has gotten into several disputes with family over the years, and that Cetin's stepfather appeared aggressive.
Johnson said the family was upset about the noise coming from a July 4 party that he and his roommates hosted in their yard a few years ago, and that Cetin's stepfather set two tires on fire in his own yard late that night. The smoke sent Johnson's guests inside, Johnson said, but no one ever called the police. Later, Johnson and his friends re-emerged and began setting off fireworks, he said. Cetin came by and asked them to quiet down.
But Johnson's interactions with Cetin were limited. He appeared "like the type to keep to himself." Sometimes, he would see Cetin sitting in a lawn chair by himself behind a shed in his backyard, facing Johnson's house. Other times, he saw Cetin and a larger young man who appeared to be his older brother wrestling in the yard. Most often, he saw the stepfather yelling at the two boys as the three did yard work.
Although authorities have not identified the victims, details emerged over the weekend as grieving families stepped forward and expressed their grief on Facebook, changing their Facebook profile pictures to the hashtag "#SkagitStrong" over the Macy's brand star symbol.
"Shayla Martin, we miss [your] kind heart and beautiful smile already," one woman, Susan Berg Gilbert, wrote of the Macy's make-up artist who was killed. With it, she posted photos of Martin smiling in a sundress. Martin appeared to have been engaged to one of Gilbert's relatives.
Belinda Galde, 64, was killed alongside her 95-year-old mother, Beatrice Dotson. In a statement Sunday, the Snohomish County District Court identified Galde as a probation officer who had been an employee with the court since 1989, the Associated Press reported.
Another victim was identified by relatives as 16-year-old Sarai Lara, a high school student who had survived cancer as a young girl. Her mother, Evangelina Lara, told the Seattle Times that the teenager had been pronounced dead by police at 2 a.m. Saturday.
Chuck Eagan, a Boeing maintenance worker, was shot trying to protect his wife, local television stations reported. He later died of his wounds. Eagan and his wife had gone to the mall to shop. They were in Macy's when the shooting started, and they began running. Eagan's wife tripped, and he was shot trying to help her, local channels KOMO and Kiro 7 reported.
"Chuck and his wife Pam were two of the best neighbors and friends Michael Bride and I have ever had. We felt safe and vice versa with this lovely couple two doors away," Kristin Uhrig wrote on her Facebook wall. The couples shared "many wonderful chats," Uhrig said, adding that Eagan had "infectious laughter."
Burlington sits between Seattle and Vancouver, near the border. Its population is about 8,500 — 62 percent white, 29 percent Hispanic — and the median household income is significantly lower than the state average. The nearest city is Mount Vernon.
QuotePolice in Georgia said a one-year-old child died Saturday in a shooting that may have been carried out by his 3-year-old brother.
An adult left the gun in the same room as the children in a house in McDonough and one of brothers grabbed the firearm, described as a .45 caliber handgun, NBC station WXIA in Atlanta reported.
"There were adults in the room at the time but the adults were not paying attention ... they did not actually see the incident occur," said Lt. Mike Ireland of Henry Country police department.
Police are trying to determine if gunshot was self-inflicted by the victim or if his 3-year-old adopted brother shot him.
No charges have yet been filed and the older boy is being cared for by his grandparents.
"It's a tragic time for all the family members," Ireland said.
No further details were immediately available.
Never trust adopted kids. He was trying to off the true blood competition :ph34r:
Very sad though :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2016, 07:38:44 PM
Police are trying to determine if gunshot was self-inflicted by the victim or if his 3-year-old adopted brother shot him.
No charges have yet been filed and the older boy is being cared for by his grandparents.
What possible difference would that make? Are they planning on prosecuting the three year old? :hmm:
One would imagine that if charges were to be laid, they would be laid against the dimwit(s) who left their handgun in reach of some toddlers.
I would guess there's some intricacies in the law between a minor shooting themselves with a improperly stored gun versus a minor shooting someone else.
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
What possible difference would that make? Are they planning on prosecuting the three year old? :hmm:
Please don't tell me you're that fucking dense.
QuoteOne would imagine that if charges were to be laid, they would be laid against the dimwit(s) who left their handgun in reach of some toddlers.
Good, you're not that fucking dense after all.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
What possible difference would that make? Are they planning on prosecuting the three year old? :hmm:
Please don't tell me you're that fucking dense.
Well, it was a
rhetorical question - but het, it's America. Nothing in their laws concerning gun use would surprise me. :lol:
The (serious) issue though is: why does the article make a point about the cops investigating which toddler pulled the trigger? What turns on knowing that particular fact?
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 01:32:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
What possible difference would that make? Are they planning on prosecuting the three year old? :hmm:
Please don't tell me you're that fucking dense.
Well, it was a rhetorical question - but het, it's America. Nothing in their laws concerning gun use would surprise me. :lol:
The (serious) issue though is: why does the article make a point about the cops investigating which toddler pulled the trigger? What turns on knowing that particular fact?
If you're going to prosecute, you have to lay out the facts of the case. If you say that the 3 year old shot his brother when in fact the younger boy shot himself, or vice-versa, you risk losing the case on a technicality.
Quote from: dps on October 03, 2016, 02:05:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 01:32:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
What possible difference would that make? Are they planning on prosecuting the three year old? :hmm:
Please don't tell me you're that fucking dense.
Well, it was a rhetorical question - but het, it's America. Nothing in their laws concerning gun use would surprise me. :lol:
The (serious) issue though is: why does the article make a point about the cops investigating which toddler pulled the trigger? What turns on knowing that particular fact?
If you're going to prosecute, you have to lay out the facts of the case. If you say that the 3 year old shot his brother when in fact the younger boy shot himself, or vice-versa, you risk losing the case on a technicality.
'The gun was left in the reach of two toddlers. Without any other person intervening, the gun discharged, killing one. Therefore, the person or persons who had legal responsibility for securing the gun in a safe manner are charged with the following offence ... '.
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 02:51:44 PM
Quote from: dps on October 03, 2016, 02:05:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 01:32:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
What possible difference would that make? Are they planning on prosecuting the three year old? :hmm:
Please don't tell me you're that fucking dense.
Well, it was a rhetorical question - but het, it's America. Nothing in their laws concerning gun use would surprise me. :lol:
The (serious) issue though is: why does the article make a point about the cops investigating which toddler pulled the trigger? What turns on knowing that particular fact?
If you're going to prosecute, you have to lay out the facts of the case. If you say that the 3 year old shot his brother when in fact the younger boy shot himself, or vice-versa, you risk losing the case on a technicality.
'The gun was left in the reach of two toddlers. Without any other person intervening, the gun discharged, killing one. Therefore, the person or persons who had legal responsibility for securing the gun in a safe manner are charged with the following offence ... '.
Part of establishing that no one else intervened is proving exactly what happened, including who pulled the trigger. If you can't prove that, you can't prove the case. Well, maybe not
can't prove it, but it makes it more difficult. You've already got a situation where the prosecution has to worry that some people on the jury might think something along the lines of, "This family has already suffered the terrible tragedy of having their child die, and you want us to compound it by sending them to jail?". You don't want to make the job of convincing 12 people too dumb to avoid jury duty that the parents should be criminally liable even tougher.
If one kid shot the other, it's a homicide. If one kid shot himself it's not a homicide.
May be that Georgia law has stiffer penalties for negligently caused homicides than non-homicide deaths.
Also the case has to be charged properly with the right facts alleged.
Maybe not much sense, but we're talking state criminal law here, not common sense,
Even dirtball Georgia has criminal liability for child access laws regarding negligently stored weapons, so even Pa or Uncle Cooter or whoever left a loaded gun around for a kid to shoot another kid is still subject to possible prosecution.
Ed discovers a new gun shop opening:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanpop.com%2Fimages%2Fpolls%2F20179_13_full.jpg&hash=1c1355c37c8fd433273c06556a66022c30aed8ac)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
Even dirtball Georgia has criminal liability for child access laws regarding negligently stored weapons, so even Pa or Uncle Cooter or whoever left a loaded gun around for a kid to shoot another kid is still subject to possible prosecution.
Why do people insist on keeping loaded weapons in the house.
Quote from: 11B4V on October 03, 2016, 09:03:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
Even dirtball Georgia has criminal liability for child access laws regarding negligently stored weapons, so even Pa or Uncle Cooter or whoever left a loaded gun around for a kid to shoot another kid is still subject to possible prosecution.
Why do people insist on keeping loaded weapons in the house.
Loading a clip can be time consuming?
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2016, 09:07:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 03, 2016, 09:03:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
Even dirtball Georgia has criminal liability for child access laws regarding negligently stored weapons, so even Pa or Uncle Cooter or whoever left a loaded gun around for a kid to shoot another kid is still subject to possible prosecution.
Why do people insist on keeping loaded weapons in the house.
Loading a clip can be time consuming?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fr%2F2013%2F09%2Fso-mad-i-could.gif&hash=aece3d8b1cb19d3177a83ad94907e41adf2f9821)
Announcement: I will not be attending the Knob Creek Machine Gun shoot. Apologies to those I was meeting there(Not Cal).
How many lives does dergreaseball have left? Goddamn.
QuoteHe claimed he fired at George Zimmerman in self-defense. Now he's going to prison for 20 years.
Washington Post
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr.
October 17 at 5:02 PM
Matthew Apperson — one of the many people who has gotten into a confrontation with George Zimmerman since he fatally shot Trayvon Martin in 2012 — was sentenced to 20 years in prison after shooting at Zimmerman a year ago.
Last month, Apperson, 38, was convicted of attempted second-degree murder, armed aggravated assault and shooting into a vehicle during his May 15, 2015, confrontation with Zimmerman, the Associated Press reported. Apperson, who unsuccessfully claimed he fired in self-defense, was sentenced Monday.
Zimmerman's claim to infamy is the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin four years ago. Martin was unarmed, carrying a pack of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea and wandering through a neighborhood in Sanford, Fla., when he got into a confrontation with Zimmerman.
Martin was black. Zimmerman, who told dispatchers that he was a neighborhood watch volunteer, identified him as Hispanic. The shooting of the teen sparked protests across the country and a nationwide conversation about "Stand Your Ground" laws.
Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon attacked him and that he fired in self-defense. He was acquitted a year after the shooting.
But the controversy has followed him, with sometimes violent results.
In August, Zimmerman was punched in the face by a guy at a bar after he boasted of being "that guy who shot Trayvon Martin."
After the punch, Ed Winters, the owner of the bar, told the Orlando Sentinel: "Everywhere this guy goes he causes controversy. You'd think he'd keep a low profile."
There were also controversies that didn't end violently. Zimmerman has twice tried to auction off the gun used to kill Trayvon. Last October, he tweeted an image of Martin's body with the words "Z-man is a one-man army."
George Zimmerman is online posting pics of Trayvon Martin's dead body right now. Let that sink in America. #blacklivesmatter
— Talib Kweli Greene (@TalibKweli) September 27, 2015
In 2013, he was arrested and charged with felony aggravated assault for allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend. The case was later dropped. Two years later, he was arrested again — this time on charges of domestic aggravated assault for allegedly throwing a bottle of wine at his girlfriend — and again the charges were later dropped.
The shooting involving Apperson in Lake Mary, Fla., wasn't related to the Trayvon Martin case. Apperson had testified that Zimmerman had threatened him in 2014 during a road-rage encounter, the AP reported.
Zimmerman testified last week that he was driving to a doctor's appointment on May 11, 2015, when he noticed he was being pursued by a vehicle whose driver later pulled up, exchanged words and fired one gunshot at him that missed.
"I heard a bang and my ears started ringing," Zimmerman, 32, told the jury.
In a country where we routinely lock up harmless pot heads how can we not get this dangerous psycho on anything?
He's an American hero, man. Lived the 2nd Anendment wet dream and bagged himself a negro AND consistently getting away with domestic violence. Genuine American folk hero.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 09:53:08 AM
He's an American hero, man. Lived the 2nd Anendment wet dream and bagged himself a negro AND consistently getting away with domestic violence. Genuine American folk hero.
Spread the nasty rumor he once called a magazine a "clip" and watch his popularity evaporate. :D
They would say he was misquoted, that's not what he really meant, what we should really focus on is the real criminal taking our guns and getting away with murder, Hillary Cointon.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 06:10:46 AM
How many lives does dergreaseball have left? Goddamn.
QuoteHe claimed he fired at George Zimmerman in self-defense. Now he's going to prison for 20 years.
Washington Post
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr.
October 17 at 5:02 PM
Matthew Apperson — one of the many people who has gotten into a confrontation with George Zimmerman since he fatally shot Trayvon Martin in 2012 — was sentenced to 20 years in prison after shooting at Zimmerman a year ago.
Last month, Apperson, 38, was convicted of attempted second-degree murder, armed aggravated assault and shooting into a vehicle during his May 15, 2015, confrontation with Zimmerman, the Associated Press reported. Apperson, who unsuccessfully claimed he fired in self-defense, was sentenced Monday.
Zimmerman's claim to infamy is the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin four years ago. Martin was unarmed, carrying a pack of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea and wandering through a neighborhood in Sanford, Fla., when he got into a confrontation with Zimmerman.
Martin was black. Zimmerman, who told dispatchers that he was a neighborhood watch volunteer, identified him as Hispanic. The shooting of the teen sparked protests across the country and a nationwide conversation about "Stand Your Ground" laws.
Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon attacked him and that he fired in self-defense. He was acquitted a year after the shooting.
But the controversy has followed him, with sometimes violent results.
In August, Zimmerman was punched in the face by a guy at a bar after he boasted of being "that guy who shot Trayvon Martin."
After the punch, Ed Winters, the owner of the bar, told the Orlando Sentinel: "Everywhere this guy goes he causes controversy. You'd think he'd keep a low profile."
There were also controversies that didn't end violently. Zimmerman has twice tried to auction off the gun used to kill Trayvon. Last October, he tweeted an image of Martin's body with the words "Z-man is a one-man army."
George Zimmerman is online posting pics of Trayvon Martin's dead body right now. Let that sink in America. #blacklivesmatter
— Talib Kweli Greene (@TalibKweli) September 27, 2015
In 2013, he was arrested and charged with felony aggravated assault for allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend. The case was later dropped. Two years later, he was arrested again — this time on charges of domestic aggravated assault for allegedly throwing a bottle of wine at his girlfriend — and again the charges were later dropped.
The shooting involving Apperson in Lake Mary, Fla., wasn't related to the Trayvon Martin case. Apperson had testified that Zimmerman had threatened him in 2014 during a road-rage encounter, the AP reported.
Zimmerman testified last week that he was driving to a doctor's appointment on May 11, 2015, when he noticed he was being pursued by a vehicle whose driver later pulled up, exchanged words and fired one gunshot at him that missed.
"I heard a bang and my ears started ringing," Zimmerman, 32, told the jury.
Still beaner hat in eh?
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2016, 06:29:16 PM
Ed discovers a new gun shop opening:
Speaking of which, hit a decent-sized gun show over the weekend. Feeling the pull for getting a 1911, but God, the CZ-75s feels so comfortable, they're almost holistically ergonomic.*
*Yes, that is a vomit-inducing sentence from a European perspective. Get over it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2016, 06:29:16 PM
Ed discovers a new gun shop opening:
Speaking of which, hit a decent-sized gun show over the weekend. Feeling the pull for getting a 1911, but God, the CZ-75s feels so comfortable, they're almost holistically ergonomic.*
*Yes, that is a vomit-inducing sentence from a European perspective. Get over it.
CZ75's are nice pieces.
I liked the ambidextrous model. Safety on both sides. You know, for when you're accessorizing.
The fact that you're a gun nut is odd to me, seedy. I mean I know you're an ex cop and bail bondsman, but you're also annoyingly liberal with a cuddly animal lover side. All the contradictions hurt my head.
Quote from: HVC on October 18, 2016, 09:29:58 PM
The fact that you're a gun nut is odd to me, seedy. I mean I know you're an ex cop and bail bondsman, but you're also annoyingly liberal with a cuddly animal lover side. All the contradictions hurt my head.
That's because he's not. One of the problems with you folks concerning gun owners.
Quote from: 11B4V on October 18, 2016, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 18, 2016, 09:29:58 PM
The fact that you're a gun nut is odd to me, seedy. I mean I know you're an ex cop and bail bondsman, but you're also annoyingly liberal with a cuddly animal lover side. All the contradictions hurt my head.
That's because he's not. One of the problems with you folks concerning gun owners.
Folks? Would that be non-gun nut, Canadian, or Portuguese. I fit Ito a lot of buckets in this place :D
Quote from: HVC on October 18, 2016, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 18, 2016, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 18, 2016, 09:29:58 PM
The fact that you're a gun nut is odd to me, seedy. I mean I know you're an ex cop and bail bondsman, but you're also annoyingly liberal with a cuddly animal lover side. All the contradictions hurt my head.
That's because he's not. One of the problems with you folks concerning gun owners.
Folks? Would that be non-gun nut, Canadian, or Portuguese. I fit Ito a lot of buckets in this place :D
;)
I am certainly not a gun nut. :lol: I have not bought a firearm since 1997, and as far as I'm concerned they can cap MAGAZINES at 7 rounds, because I like .45s and prefer revolvers anyway.
But I do enjoy my handgun carry permit and am very much in the "the only person who should have a gun is me, because I trust me and not bulletheads like Cal and derspiess" camp. :P
edit: mad props to my boy 11B, who is also not Cal and derspiess. :hug:
Ed: forgotten. :(
Ed: jury still in deliberations. Not crazy, but not quite not crazy.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 18, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
Ed: forgotten. :(
He's was probably being diplomatic, you'd be sad at what group he'd put you in :(
Whoops
See!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 09:40:43 PM
Ed: jury still in deliberations. Not crazy, but not quite not crazy.
I'll take it. :)
Quote from: HVC on October 18, 2016, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 18, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
Ed: forgotten. :(
He's was probably being diplomatic, you'd be sad at what group he'd put you in :(
Now HVC, on most of languish I would be considered a balls out nutter.
-Been around firearms since I was 8.
-Can shoot any firearm I pickup well.
-I own 20+ firearms, I've lost track sorry.
-I reload ammunition, but only for what I use to hunt.
-Can do minor gunsmith work
-If the balloon goes up, in a fortnight I could reload a few thousand rounds of ammo and still have components to spare. Do I think that's going to happen, no, but I keep my options open.
-I hunt
-I own two "scary rifles" a CETME and SR556 that I haven't fired a hundred rounds between them. Despite owning them for over five years.
But, I think the "gun culture" is completely out of control and needs serious tightening. I grew up in a hunting culture.
Used to bang a bi stripper that liked me to keep the shoulder holster on. Ah, memories. And Daddy issues.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 10:09:43 PM
Used to bang a bi stripper that liked me to keep the shoulder holster on. Ah, memories. And Daddy issues.
:lol:
Chicks love guns.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 10:09:43 PM
Used to bang a bi stripper that liked me to keep the shoulder holster on. Ah, memories. And Daddy issues.
Would that gun have used ... a stripper clip?
;)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2016, 10:09:43 PM
Used to bang a bi stripper that liked me to keep the shoulder holster on. Ah, memories. And Daddy issues.
What with your predilections that relationship Propably gave a whole new meaning to the phrase cry uncle ;)
I think my next purchase will be a Whitworth.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navyarms.com%2FMedia%2FGalleryPhotos%2FParkerHaleWhitworth%2FWhitworthRifle.jpg&hash=89e98efcf4530af5d2cf3dac5a51073b3244a194)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navyarms.com%2FMedia%2FGalleryPhotos%2FParkerHaleWhitworth%2FWhitworthHexBarrel.jpg&hash=b4bb3ce9ac734fa22d1e34cf3cad69237b23ad43)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navyarms.com%2FMedia%2FGalleryPhotos%2FParkerHaleWhitworth%2FWhitworthLockTight.jpg&hash=637b9522cd6867370dd1b9c53159f48040a52bc6)
That is one beautiful machine of death.
Planning on fighting off Indian raids up there in the great Norfwest?
I wonder if Mono can score us a couple of these--
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5616/15590500738_0fbb3077c5_o.jpg)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8576/15590101799_530f672493_o.jpg)
Now that's a ChiCom weapon you can be proud to take out in public, derspiess.
Clip's too big.
Whew those Whitworth repros are hard to find. Pedersoi is making them. Avg price 1300-1500.
Shooting components are no problem.
Musket caps plentiful
Black Powder plentiful
Bullets are no problem. Pure lead around .442-.448 depending on bore and paper patching them, are easily obtainable from 400-550 grains. There are hexagonal bullets out there which matches the Whitworth bore, but are not needed.
Don't be a fag. Use the hexagonals, like a real outdoorsy type.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 09:28:24 PM
Don't be a fag. Use the hexagonals, like a real outdoorsy type.
They have no bearing on accuracy.
Historical accuracy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 09:34:23 PM
Historical accuracy.
Those rifles are accurate with both hex and cylindrical. They used both types back in the day with paper patching.
I've never heard of hexaganol muzzle loader balls before.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2016, 10:03:03 PM
I've never heard of hexaganol muzzle loader balls before.
They didn't use round balls.
Bullets yes
(https://longrollandlostcause.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/bullets.png)
At first, I just assumed ya'll were talking about Henry rifles. :P
The best part is - they don't require using a clip.
:P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2016, 10:03:03 PM
I've never heard of hexaganol muzzle loader balls before.
:rolleyes: Balls.
It's muzzle-loaded, so obviously it uses muzzles.
Well pull the trigger and got to Muzzleloaders. One is for hunting, a Tradition Ultralight Pursuit .50 cal. The second is a Parker Hale Vulunteer Rifle. .451 cal, I'll use for target shooting and shooting only paper patch bullets.
No Parker Hale Whitworths repros were found. Ill wait till the Pedersoli Whitworths hit the states next year.
Ed has a breech loader. It's Mrs. Ed's strap-on harness.
Lolz
Dildo bias! So jellied!
I laughed harder.
Dude shooting a .451 Volunteer rifle with homemade black powder, which is not hard to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBUYQ7wG2NA&index=8&list=FLzbhrJfbBB4uJnoTbDjtSgQ
Paper patching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YBFW-vjiBw&t=534s
We are talking dildos now. :mad:
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 29, 2016, 10:53:26 PM
We are talking dildos now. :mad:
Save it for Marty mister. :P
Brushing up on paper patching. The .442 500 grainers arrived. Two wraps of #9 onion skin paper brought the diameter to .4495. Near perfect for the Parker Hale article's .451 bore.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15289179_10210943491854492_5623380827993506072_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
It arrived :showoff:
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15369096_10210985871713962_4555395923073847590_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15391499_10210985872793989_6010832728366039687_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
You going to use any kind of stock cover to protect the finish?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 10:40:05 PM
You going to use any kind of stock cover to protect the finish?
This probably won't see the woods. Targets only.
Get a 2nd one? :unsure:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 11:06:26 PM
Get a 2nd one? :unsure:
1500 bones.
The Traditions Ultralight is for hunting and weighs in at 5.5 pounds. The Parker Hale is near 10 pounds.
Night and day difference.
On the perennial clip/magazine "concern", I came across some proof that US Marines did not care much about it in WW2.
Source: "With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okanawa", an autobiography by E. B. Sledge. Page 57 of the Ballentine paperback edition.
"Attached to my web pistol belt, I carried a pouch containing a combat dressing, two canteens, a pouch with two fifteen-round carbine magazines--clips, we called them, and a fine brass compass in a waterproof case." [emphasis]
;)
Given that he also describes how Marines in training were humiliated for using the wrong weapons terminology ("gun" for "rifle"), the conclusion is that Marines did not care about the distinction between "magazines" and "clips" at this time ... or he never would have used both words to refer to the same thing.
He was a mortarmen. Also, it's nice that 11B4 finally got a couch to set his musket on.
Quote from: Malthus on December 07, 2016, 11:47:40 AM
On the perennial clip/magazine "concern", I came across some proof that US Marines did not care much about it in WW2.
Source: "With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okanawa", an autobiography by E. B. Sledge. Page 57 of the Ballentine paperback edition.
"Attached to my web pistol belt, I carried a pouch containing a combat dressing, two canteens, a pouch with two fifteen-round carbine magazines--clips, we called them, and a fine brass compass in a waterproof case." [emphasis]
;)
Given that he also describes how Marines in training were humiliated for using the wrong weapons terminology ("gun" for "rifle"), the conclusion is that Marines did not care about the distinction between "magazines" and "clips" at this time ... or he never would have used both words to refer to the same thing.
Maybe it's "clips, we (who were regularly taunted and reprimanded for our wrongful use of the word 'clip') called them."?
Quote from: Razgovory on December 07, 2016, 11:58:29 AM
He was a mortarmen.
A marine would tell you that all marines are riflemen first. :P
Amen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwaqY2R4VwE
QuoteTotalBiscuit fires real WW1 weapons ft. Ian from ForgottenWeapons
TotalBiscuit and Ian from ForgottenWeapons bring you an extensive video on weapons used in World War 1, their characteristics and how they were implemented in Battlefield 1. The footage was shot on location in Las Vegas at http://battlefieldvegas.com
He even points out that clip and magazine are NOT the same. :P Neat little historical backgrounds of the guns (like the C96 Mauser and Luger).
I like the Forgotten Weapons guy's videos. Very cool and informative.
We should edit the title to 23 years.
I'm wanting a Krinkov. But it'll be like the Uzi I wanted, I'll never get around to it.
Quote from: Syt on December 08, 2016, 05:58:50 AM
He even points out that clip and magazine are NOT the same. :P
They aren't - but the terms were, apparently, used interchangeably by actual professionals before today's gun nerds got all assburgery about them. :P
New York AG published a report finding that 87% of the guns used in crimes in NYC came from out of state. Most common states of origin of the out-of-state guns are: Virginia (19%), Georgia (13%), Pennsylvania (13%), South Carolina (13%), North Carolina (10%), and Florida (7%).
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 22, 2016, 07:12:03 PM
Virginia (19%), Georgia (13%), South Carolina (13%), North Carolina (10%), and Florida (7%).
The sons of the Confederacy will get those damn yankees yet.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 22, 2016, 07:12:03 PM
New York AG published a report finding that 87% of the guns used in crimes in NYC came from out of state.
Yeah, been saying that for years here. But no, states with the strictest gun control have the worst crime rates, blah, blah, blah. You know, the usual bullshit.
See derskittles, this is how it's done.
QuotePrivate investigator shoots 13-year-old amid attempted carjacking in southwest Baltimore
A former Baltimore police officer who now works as a private investigator shot a 13-year-old boy in the head after the boy tried to carjack him in southwest Baltimore's Carroll Park on Wednesday, police said.
The 13-year-old is in critical condition and homicide detectives are investigating due to the severity of his injuries, police spokesman Donny Moses said.
Around 3:45 p.m., the former officer, aged 73, was sitting in his car when a group of young men approached. One teen opened the car door and displayed a replica handgun, which the man thought was a real gun, police said. The 73-year-old then shot the boy.
The man was an officer for six years and resigned in 1974. He had a valid handgun permit issued by Maryland State Police and was being interviewed by police, Moses said. Police did not name the man.
I have to say if you cannot shoot somebody who draws a gun on you what exactly is the purpose of a handgun permit? Seems like that kid did something insanely reckless and paid the price.
Quote from: Valmy on December 22, 2016, 07:35:34 PM
I have to say if you cannot shoot somebody who draws a gun on you what exactly is the purpose of a handgun permit? Seems like that kid did something insanely reckless and paid the price.
Here's a pic of the replica gun used--
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trbimg.com%2Fimg-585b4614%2Fturbine%2Fbs-md-ci-shootings-20161221&hash=d98580bbf72ccdedc2148532f7f8a20edae6e2e7)
So yeah, if you're going to bluff with that, you better not get it called. Dumbass.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/18/us/arkansas-toddler-death-road-rage/
QuoteToddler killed in Arkansas road rage incident; manhunt underway
(CNN)Police are searching for the gunman who shot and killed a toddler during an apparent road rage incident in Little Rock, Arkansas.
Investigators are offering a $40,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction of the person who shot 3-year-old Acen King.
The incident began Saturday evening when a motorist behind the grandmother grew agitated that she was not moving quickly enough at a stop sign, Little Rock Police Department spokesman Lt. Steven McClanahan said.
The man started honking his horn. The grandmother honked her horn. Then, police said, the man got out of his black Chevrolet Impala and fired into her car.
"One shot was fired and it went through the vehicle and hit the child," McClanahan said.
Not realizing that the child had been hit, the woman drove on to a JC Penney about 9 miles away. She realized her grandson was wounded when she went to get him out of the car, according to a police incident report.
Police received a call shortly before 6:30 p.m. that a child passenger had been shot.
The boy was transported to Arkansas Children's Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. A 1-year-old child was also in the car at the time of the shooting, according to the police report.
Police said the grandmother and the slain boy had no relationship with the suspect.
"I certainly have no information to say that anyone in this family has done anything to cost this young person's life," Little Rock Police Department Chief Kenton Buckner told CNN affiliate KARK. "But this is about as frustrated as you can be as a public safety official or just a plain citizen."
Homicide detectives are conducting an investigation.
The fatal shooting marks Little Rock's 40th homicide of the year, police said. Last year, there were 31 homicides in the city.
so someone shoots at your car and you just keep driving to the mall?
Quote from: HVC on December 23, 2016, 02:23:07 AM
so someone shoots at your car and you just keep driving to the mall?
Yes let's let criminals rule our lives. :rolleyes:
Arts & Crafts for Men. The '59 Sharps Infantry Rifle came in the other day.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15823160_10211248222272562_4550599630276752301_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=35c89cc0ca2689de29316be56cebbd4c&oe=58F39801)
Nice. But not enough tacticallol for me.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 29, 2016, 09:05:17 PM
Arts & Crafts for Men. The '59 Sharps Infantry Rifle came in the other day.
Deserve's got nothing to do with it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2016, 07:41:13 PM
So yeah, if you're going to bluff with that, you better not get it called. Dumbass.
Don't bluff with firearms to start with. You one at someone, you either have to be willing to shoot them, or willing to let them shoot you. And to be clear, by shoot, in this context, I mean kill, because shooting to wound isn't really a thing outside of TV and movies. And if the firearm you're bluffing with is a toy, that pretty much eliminates "willing to shoot them" and leaves you with "willing to let them shoot you".
Or, to put it another way, don't bring a toy gun to a real gunfight.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 29, 2016, 09:07:08 PM
Nice. But not enough tacticallol for me.
I'm sure he can put some rails on it to remedy that.
Quote from: derspiess on December 30, 2016, 09:37:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 29, 2016, 09:07:08 PM
Nice. But not enough tacticallol for me.
I'm sure he can put some rails on it to remedy that.
Needs a folding stock and red dot sight also.
I'm also thinking shorten the barrel to 12" and apply for the $200 tax stamp for SBR. You know, because extra tacticlol. Oh, and get one of those nice adjustable $300 muzzle brakes for it.
SPENDS $$$ ON TACTICLOL TOYS
DIES ON THE DRAW TRYING TO EXTEND FOLDED CARBON POLYMER BAYONET
You never know when you are going to have to launch a bayonet charge. BANZAI
I've decided to get the twins their own AR-15's. I have determined they can can handle big boy guns. Might get them pink ones. Or stick with SCARY black.
Still looking for helmets to slap the magazine on before insertion.
WTF man how old are they now? They should have progressed to tandem fire team and dismount MG tactics by now. The fuck kind of father are you.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 03, 2017, 08:31:24 PM
WTF man how old are they now? They should have progressed to tandem fire team and dismount MG tactics by now. The fuck kind of father are you.
8. :lol:
I lost a year. But I'll try to do better. :blush:
Better get them working on their crew drills.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 03, 2017, 08:58:48 PM
Better get them working on their crew drills.
They know how to work the NERF machine gun. Yes, we have a Nerf MG.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 03, 2017, 08:58:48 PM
Better get them working on their crew drills.
They know how to work the NERF machine gun. Yes, we have a Nerf MG.
It just gets easier and easier to disrupt and rout Daddy. RALLY ROLL FAILED
Daddy needed to sit down for awhile anyways.
8?
Maybe start 'em off with one of them .22 California-compliant AR-15s. Save the 50-cals until they start learning to drive.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 03, 2017, 10:24:40 PM
8?
Maybe start 'em off with one of them .22 California-compliant AR-15s. Save the 50-cals until they start learning to drive.
5.56mm. We need to meet NATO standards
Might as well get 'em a frickin' FAMAS. :mad:
I applied for my FOID card. Should get it in a couple of weeks.
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 11:24:29 PM
I applied for my FOID card. Should get it in a couple of weeks.
What sort of firearm are you planning on getting (or already own in violation of Illinois law)?
I always figured Meri would defend herself from marauding Trump militiamen with her bow.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 10:55:43 AM
I always figured Meri would defend herself from marauding Trump militiamen with her bow.
Her bug out bag will be some nice tasty loot after the Apocalypse.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 10:55:43 AM
I always figured Meri would defend herself from marauding Trump militiamen with her bow.
Slingshot filled with whorepills and diaphragms, with ninja star IUDs.
AND LO, THE PHILISTINE WAS SMOTE WITH RESPONSIBLE BIRTCH CONTROL PLANNING
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 11:19:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 10:55:43 AM
I always figured Meri would defend herself from marauding Trump militiamen with her bow.
Slingshot filled with whorepills and diaphragms, with ninja star IUDs.
AND LO, THE PHILISTINE WAS SMOTE WITH RESPONSIBLE BIRTCH CONTROL PLANNING
That's beautiful man.
That it is, Valmy. When Seedy's on, he's on.
Save throw against Dalkon Shield +5 fails
Use Boots of Escaping
Missouri now has a stand your ground law.
Quote from: dps on January 04, 2017, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: merithyn on January 03, 2017, 11:24:29 PM
I applied for my FOID card. Should get it in a couple of weeks.
What sort of firearm are you planning on getting (or already own in violation of Illinois law)?
I've always wanted to learn how to hunt, so I'd like to get a shotgun at some point. Beyond that, I won't be buying anything without a whole lot of practice at a gun range, which requires a FOID card. Guns terrify me, and I don't like that. I want to learn how to be safe with them, how to use them, and how to be around them without feeling abject terror in the pit of my stomach.
It feels like a reasonable and responsible thing to do.
[haiku]
guns terrify you
but yet, you want to go hunt
things guns terrify
[/haiku]
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
[haiku]
guns terrify you
but yet, you want to go hunt
things guns terrify
[/haiku]
Given that where I live deer are as ubiquitous as rats in New York City, hunting here is beneficial to the ecology of the area. Better than killing the deer with a car, which is pretty much the alternative. Plus, I dress and eat the animal. I even use the skin to make leather.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 10:55:43 AM
I always figured Meri would defend herself from marauding Trump militiamen with her bow.
Don't bring a bow to a gun fight.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 06:27:10 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
[haiku]
guns terrify you
but yet, you want to go hunt
things guns terrify
[/haiku]
Given that where I live deer are as ubiquitous as rats in New York City, hunting here is beneficial to the ecology of the area. Better than killing the deer with a car, which is pretty much the alternative. Plus, I dress and eat the animal. I even use the skin to make leather.
Go sell your bloodlust elsewhere, we're all stocked up here, Merithyn. OR SHOULD I SAY: MURDERTHYN
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 07:38:12 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 06:27:10 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 06:21:03 PM
[haiku]
guns terrify you
but yet, you want to go hunt
things guns terrify
[/haiku]
Given that where I live deer are as ubiquitous as rats in New York City, hunting here is beneficial to the ecology of the area. Better than killing the deer with a car, which is pretty much the alternative. Plus, I dress and eat the animal. I even use the skin to make leather.
Go sell your bloodlust elsewhere, we're all stocked up here, Merithyn. OR SHOULD I SAY: MURDERTHYN
Guns are dangerous.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 07:38:12 PM
Go sell your bloodlust elsewhere, we're all stocked up here, Merithyn. OR SHOULD I SAY: MURDERTHYN
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.whicdn.com%2Fimages%2F47883915%2Flarge.jpg&hash=a68856d5ea86677009d479fe2b9cdb42c6527360)
Congrats. How does it feel knowing Ed is masturbating to that pic at this very moment?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 08:24:25 PM
Congrats. How does it feel knowing Ed is masturbating to that pic at this very moment?
(https://yadadarcyyada.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/1christmas88.gif)
What is up with that Arquebus/Crossbow thing?
I was looking at the camel toe
CAMEL SEASON
DUCK SEASON
CAMEL SEASON
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 04, 2017, 09:12:20 PM
I was looking at the camel toe
That ain't a camel toe. Let me browse the net and post a camel toe...standby.
I am suddenly concerned about the direction this thread is taking.
Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2017, 09:22:44 PM
I am suddenly concerned about the direction this thread is taking.
Guns and Camel toes. What's not to like.
Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2017, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 07:38:12 PM
Go sell your bloodlust elsewhere, we're all stocked up here, Merithyn. OR SHOULD I SAY: MURDERTHYN
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.whicdn.com%2Fimages%2F47883915%2Flarge.jpg&hash=a68856d5ea86677009d479fe2b9cdb42c6527360)
The Depends throw it off a little for me.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 04, 2017, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 04, 2017, 09:12:20 PM
I was looking at the camel toe
That ain't a camel toe. Let me browse the net and post a camel toe...standby.
THIS IS CRYSTAL PALACE. WE ARE AT DEFCON 2. CONFIDENCE IS HIGH.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 04, 2017, 09:26:15 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 04, 2017, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 04, 2017, 09:12:20 PM
I was looking at the camel toe
That ain't a camel toe. Let me browse the net and post a camel toe...standby.
THIS IS CRYSTAL PALACE. WE ARE AT DEFCON 2. CONFIDENCE IS HIGH.
Inbound over the Pole
:lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FCamel_44828c_110075.png&hash=4f638358d714796dc97ef9dd4401b9fe0a3bb8fd)
He meant Kam el-Toah, the Jewish minor holiday.
Oh fuck Base Cop. I've ate my Alex Jones supplements and I'm coming for you.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fbr3hl0T.jpg&hash=4dcb7e80c040e4c41b615b3f632a382600253e09)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 04, 2017, 08:24:25 PM
Congrats. How does it feel knowing Ed is masturbating to that pic at this very moment?
Wouldn't be the first time some guy has masturbated to an avatar of mine. ;) :perv:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2017, 09:25:33 PM
The Depends throw it off a little for me.
HEY! I'VE HAD A LOT OF KIDS! :contract: <_<
:unsure: Is Max okay with you posting this stuff?
Quote from: DGuller on January 04, 2017, 09:54:33 PM
:unsure: Is Max okay with you posting this stuff?
:huh:
I attempted to post the Chris Christie camel toe pic, but my magazines detonated.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcj.supraspeed.com%2FPics%2FFunny%2Fgifs%2FBaseball%2Fexploding_bus.gif&hash=8720a8ea25003f1ff7b6443363828ac6ae2ef0c9)
I'm listing to port.
What kind of fucking imbeciles try to rob a GUN STORE? In Georgia????
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/225630015-story
I bet they wanted to steal them used DVDs from the pawn section of the store.
The Sig Sauer will replace the Beretta
https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-your-new-handgun-will-be-a-sig-sauer
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 20, 2017, 11:26:00 AM
The Sig Sauer will replace the Beretta
https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-your-new-handgun-will-be-a-sig-sauer
Thanks for that Jimmy come late to the party.
I imagine this great honor bestowed on such a beloved Schleswig-Holstein institution fills Syt with pride.
I bought a metric fuckton of ammo today. And a couple of axes and entrenching tools.
Raz, you're good bro.
Quote
House rolls back rule restricting gun sales to severely mentally ill
Washington (CNN)The Republican-led House voted Thursday to repeal an Obama-era Social Security Administration regulation to keep people with severe mental illnesses from buying guns.
The vote was 235-180.
"The Social Security Administration not only overstepped its mission with this regulation, it discriminated against certain Americans with disabilities who receive Social Security benefits. The agency should be focused on serving all of its beneficiaries, not picking and choosing whose Second Amendment rights to deny," said Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas, who chairs the Ways and Means Committee.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/house-vote-guns-mental-illnesses/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29
That's nuts.
Shut up Meg.
'Murica.
Friend was selling his Beretta Px4 pistol. Snagged it w/3 mags for 300 bucks.
I think I can outfit everybody with a sidearm now.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2017, 07:24:33 PM
Friend was selling his Beretta Px4 pistol. Snagged it w/3 mags for 300 bucks.
I think I can outfit everybody with a sidearm now.
Nice pull
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 03, 2017, 07:24:33 PM
Friend was selling his Beretta Px4 pistol. Snagged it w/3 mags for 300 bucks.
I think I can outfit everybody with a sidearm now.
Where's mine?
Let's see...weapons, check. Body armor, check. Ski mask, check. Now let's go down to the police station and exercise our 2nd Amendment rights to open carry! :yeah:
QuoteOpen-carry advocates walked into a police station with a loaded rifle. Officers were not amused
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/07/open-carry-advocates-walked-into-a-police-station-with-a-loaded-rifle-officers-were-not-amused/?tid=pm_national_pop
"Put it on the ground or you are dead!" an officer bellows. "I will shoot you! I will put a round in you, sir! Put that rifle on the ground!"
"What the hell's the matter with you?" another officer demands.
Amid the upheaval, Baker's voice protested: "It's all legal, sir."
The video is priceless. So lucky to be alive. But the stupid usually are.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 08, 2017, 07:23:05 AM
Let's see...weapons, check. Body armor, check. Ski mask, check. Now let's go down to the police station and exercise our 2nd Amendment rights to open carry! :yeah:
QuoteOpen-carry advocates walked into a police station with a loaded rifle. Officers were not amused
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/07/open-carry-advocates-walked-into-a-police-station-with-a-loaded-rifle-officers-were-not-amused/?tid=pm_national_pop
"Put it on the ground or you are dead!" an officer bellows. "I will shoot you! I will put a round in you, sir! Put that rifle on the ground!"
"What the hell's the matter with you?" another officer demands.
Amid the upheaval, Baker's voice protested: "It's all legal, sir."
The video is priceless. So lucky to be alive. But the stupid usually are.
:lol:
An acquaintance of mine might be selling one of his M1 Carbines. Hopefully I have the money together by the time he decides to sell it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 08, 2017, 07:23:05 AM
Let's see...weapons, check. Body armor, check. Ski mask, check. Now let's go down to the police station and exercise our 2nd Amendment rights to open carry! :yeah:
QuoteOpen-carry advocates walked into a police station with a loaded rifle. Officers were not amused
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/07/open-carry-advocates-walked-into-a-police-station-with-a-loaded-rifle-officers-were-not-amused/?tid=pm_national_pop
"Put it on the ground or you are dead!" an officer bellows. "I will shoot you! I will put a round in you, sir! Put that rifle on the ground!"
"What the hell's the matter with you?" another officer demands.
Amid the upheaval, Baker's voice protested: "It's all legal, sir."
The video is priceless. So lucky to be alive. But the stupid usually are.
They can never take our freedom.
:lol:
The ski mask was a brilliant touch. Hard to file a police complaint without one.
Idiots.
With the twins suspended from school for 5 days, I took them shooting, conducted missile drills and listened to their rock n roll.
I pleased with their accuracy. :)
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 08, 2017, 06:32:22 PM
With the twins suspended from school for 5 days, I took them shooting, conducted missile drills and listened to their rock n roll.
I pleased with their accuracy. :)
Now what are the hellions up to?
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 08, 2017, 06:32:22 PM
With the twins suspended from school for 5 days, I took them shooting, conducted missile drills and listened to their rock n roll.
I pleased with their accuracy. :)
What kind of rock and roll?
Quote from: katmai on February 08, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 08, 2017, 06:32:22 PM
With the twins suspended from school for 5 days, I took them shooting, conducted missile drills and listened to their rock n roll.
I pleased with their accuracy. :)
Now what are the hellions up to?
Beating up a 5th grader who wouldn't leave them alone. School ignored our complaints for weeks.
Texas hunters hoot each other, each thinking they were being attacked by immigrants,
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/texas-hunters-who-accidentally-shot-each-other-blamed-undocumented-immigrants-police-reveal/ar-AAnbE9o?li=AA59G3&ocid=spartandhp
Quote from: HVC on February 21, 2017, 04:28:30 PM
Texas hunters hoot each other, each thinking they were being attacked by immigrants,
Redneck ... owls? :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on February 21, 2017, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: HVC on February 21, 2017, 04:28:30 PM
Texas hunters hoot each other, each thinking they were being attacked by immigrants,
Redneck ... owls? :hmm:
Little know fact, long horns were actually named after the horned owl :contract:
:blush:
Looks like this will be going to the Supreme Court
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/02/21/appeals_court_holds_second_amendment_doesn_t_protect_assault_weapons.html
Quote
Appeals Court Rules that Second Amendment Doesn't Protect Right to Assault Weapons
By Mark Joseph Stern
On Tuesday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit ruled that the Second Amendment doesn't protect assault weapons—an extraordinary decision keenly attuned to the brutal havoc these firearms can wreak. Issued by the court sitting en banc, Tuesday's decision reversed a previous ruling in which a panel of judges had struck down Maryland's ban on assault weapons and detachable large capacity magazines. Today's ruling is a remarkable victory for gun safety advocates and a serious setback for gun proponents who believe the Second Amendment exempts weapons of war from regulation.
In 2013, Maryland passed a law barring the sale, possession, transfer, or purchase of what it dubbed "assault weapons," including AR-15s, AK-47s, and semiautomatic rifles. It also banned copies of these firearms and large capacity magazines. Gun advocates sued, alleging that the law violated their right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment. A district court rejected their claims, but a panel of judges from the 4th Circuit reversed that rejection, holding that the Maryland law infringed on gun owners' Second Amendment rights—and that gun regulations must be subject to the extremely demanding "strict scrutiny" standard. The full court voted to vacate that decision and rehear the case, and Tuesday's decision marks a vigorous rejection of that extreme stance.
The majority opinion opens with a disturbing account of several recent mass shootings enabled by the kind of assault weapons that Maryland seeks to ban. In Newtown, Aurora, San Bernardino, Orlando, Binghamton, Tucson, Virginia Tech, and Fort Hood, mass shooters used either military-style rifles or high-capacity magazines, significantly increasing the ultimate death tolls. Newtown, in particular, compelled Maryland to ban these weapons. The state recognized that the Supreme Court's decision in D.C. v. Heller protects citizens' right to keep handguns in the home. But it argued that the firearms it had proscribed constituted "dangerous and unusual weapons," which the Heller court said could be outlawed. Indeed, Maryland pointed out, the Heller court explicitly declares that especially dangerous weapons "that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned."
A majority of the 4th Circuit agreed with Maryland, holding that the weapons it forbade were sufficiently similar to M-16 rifles to fall outside the ambit of the Second Amendment.
"Whatever their other potential," the court wrote, these weapons "are unquestionably most useful in military service. That is, the banned assault weapons are designed to kill or disable the enemy on the battlefield." One of the banned guns can empty a 30-round magazine in two seconds; another includes a grenade launcher.
"The next effect of these military combat features," the majority concluded, "is a capability for lethality—more wounds, more serious, in more victims—far beyond that of other firearms in general, including other semiautomatic guns." Likewise, the banned large-capacity magazines "are particularly designed and most suitable for military and law enforcement applications"—specifically, to "enable a shooter to hit multiple human targets very rapidly." It is a weapon of war, not the tool of self-defense envisioned by the Heller court.
Although the majority held that these weapons fell outside the scope of the Second Amendment altogether, it also noted, as an "alternative basis," that even if the amendment applied, the Maryland law would still be constitutional. Since the law does not "effectively disarm individuals or substantially affect their ability to defend themselves," it would only be subject to intermediate scrutiny if the Second Amendment applied. And the law meets that level of scrutiny because it is "reasonably adapted to a substantial governmental interest." Maryland, the majority explained, has a more than substantial interest in preventing its residents from being slaughtered by assault weapons. And the law reasonably targets those weapons that inflict the most violence in the shortest period of time.
The most striking part of Tuesday's decision is a concurrence written by Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson III, a Reagan appointee. Wilkinson joined the majority opinion, but he wrote separately to express his discomfort with the gun lobby's strategy of using the courts to increase access to dangerous firearms:
As Heller recognized, there is a balance to be struck here. While courts exist to protect individual rights, we are not the instruments of anyone's political agenda, we are not empowered to court mass consequences we cannot predict, and we are not impaneled to add indefinitely to the growing list of subjects on which the states of our Union and the citizens of our country no longer have any meaningful say.
Wilkinson also criticized the dissenting judges, as well as the plaintiffs in this case, for attempting to take gun regulation out of democratic sphere almost entirely. His panegyric to judicial restraint with regard to Second Amendment interpretation is quite moving:
Disenfranchising the American people on this life and death subject would be the gravest and most serious of steps. It is their community, not ours. It is their safety, not ours. It is their lives, not ours. To say in the wake of so many mass shootings in so many localities across this country that the people themselves are now to be rendered newly powerless, that all they can do is stand by and watch as federal courts design their destiny—this would deliver a body blow to democracy as we have known it since the very founding of this nation.
In urging us to strike this legislation, appellants would impair the ability of government to act prophylactically. More and more under appellants' view, preventive statutory action is to be judicially forbidden and we must bide our time until another tragedy is inflicted or irretrievable human damage has once more been done. Leaving the question of assault weapons bans to legislative competence preserves the latitude that representative governments enjoy in responding to changes in facts on the ground. Constitutionalizing this critical issue will place it in a freeze frame which only the Supreme Court itself could alter. The choice is ultimately one of flexibility versus rigidity, and beyond that, of whether conduct that has visited such communal bereavement across America will be left to the communal processes of democracy for resolution.
Both Wilkinson's concurrence and the majority decision are refreshing in their fact-based analysis and grounding in real-world experience. Pro-gun judges often discuss the Second Amendment as an abstract, intellectual font of liberty. But after the Newtown shooting, Maryland legislators did not see liberty in assault weapons, they saw carnage. In response, the legislature strived to keep those weapons out of the state for fear of further bloodshed. The 4th Circuit was correct to let Maryland's law stand and resist attempts to remove gun control from the democratic process altogether.
https://www.facebook.com/BaltimoreCityPolice/photos/a.277239856955.154351.58771761955/10154185854496956/?type=3&theater
Just sit back, and enjoy the comments.
WIlkinson is my new favoritist judge in the world.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 05, 2017, 12:46:51 AM
https://www.facebook.com/BaltimoreCityPolice/photos/a.277239856955.154351.58771761955/10154185854496956/?type=3&theater
Just sit back, and enjoy the comments.
Gangster and Civil War reenactor
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 05, 2017, 12:46:51 AM
https://www.facebook.com/BaltimoreCityPolice/photos/a.277239856955.154351.58771761955/10154185854496956/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/BaltimoreCityPolice/photos/a.277239856955.154351.58771761955/10154185854496956/?type=3&theater)
Just sit back, and enjoy the comments.
" If it pleases the court, we will ensure we safeguard this firearm and ensure the safety of all in the village of Lord Baltimore.
Whilst this young lad possessed this weapon illegally, his punishment shall not include that of public stoning nor shaming.
He therefore shall be recommended as a candidate for reenactment just up the road in Gettysburg."
:P
Quote3 home invaders killed at Oklahoma residence, authorities say
Philip Gast-Profile-Image
By Phil Gast, CNN
Updated 10:34 PM ET, Tue March 28, 2017
(CNN)Three teenagers dressed in black and wearing masks and gloves were killed by a resident when they broke into a home, Oklahoma authorities said Monday.
A fourth suspect, the alleged getaway driver, now faces first-degree murder counts in their deaths, authorities said.
The 23-year-old son of the homeowner fired the fatal shots from a AR-15 semiautomatic rifle, officials said. One suspect had a knife, and another carried brass knuckles.
"Preliminary investigation looks like it's self-defense," said Wagoner County Sheriff's Deputy Nick Mahoney, cautioning the investigation was continuing into the midday home invasion.
The shooter voluntarily spoke with investigators. Neither he nor his father was hurt.
The deceased suspects were 16, 17 and 19 years old, the sheriff's office said.
A 21-year-old woman, who Mahoney said may have been a getaway driver, turned herself into Broken Arrow police shortly after the shooting.
Elizabeth Rodriguez was arrested on three counts of first-degree murder, one count of first-degree burglary and one count of second-degree burglary, Chief Deputy Les Young said. She is in the Wagoner County jail.
Rodriguez went to police in Broken Arrow, a Tulsa suburb, and told them she was involved, he said.
Oklahoma state law says that first-degree murder occurs if "any other person takes the life of a human being during ... first degree burglary." Another condition is if a person causes the death of another person with "malice aforethought."
Shortly before 12:30 p.m. Monday, the suspects broke through a door in the back of the home outside Broken Arrow. The young man, who was there with his father, encountered them.
"There was a short exchange of words, then gunfire happened," Mahoney told reporters.
Two of the suspects were in the kitchen; the other was found on the driveway. The suspects' names were not released. Young said Tuesday afternoon that medical officials are working to confirm their identities.
Mahoney said it did not appear the residents and intruders knew each other.
The homeowner's family is saddened that their son had to take three lives, Mahoney said.
Young told reporters that there is a witness, but he wouldn't say whether the person was in the house or outside. The person "gave some information," Young said.
Authorities said the neighborhood has a low crime rate, but resident Leon Simmons told CNN affiliate KTUL-TV in Tulsa there have been a few burglaries in the past six months.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/01/without-obama-once-booming-gun-industry-poised-to-shrink.html
QuoteWithout Obama, once-booming gun industry poised to shrink
President Trump's election appears to be negatively affecting gun sales in the U.S. and the bubble appears to be bursting despite a staunch advocate for gun rights in the White House and Republicans ruling Congress.
"President Obama was the best gun salesman the world has ever seen," Karl Sorken, a production manager at Battle Rifle Co. in Houston. Sorken is an Army veteran and self-described liberal who voted for Obama and notes the change for the industry under Trump is a topic of conversation in the shop.
Fears of government limits on guns -- some real, some perceived -- led to a surge in demand during Obama's tenure and manufacturers leapt to keep up. Over the decade ending in 2015, the number of U.S. companies licensed to make firearms jumped 362 percent.
"The trends really almost since Election Day or election night have been that gun sales have slacked off," said Robert Spitzer, political science department chairman at State University of New York at Cortland. "When you take away Barack Obama and you give the Republicans control of both houses of Congress, which is extremely friendly to the gun lobby, then the political pressure subsides. And that surely is at least a key part of the explanation for the drop-off in sales."
The Washington Post reported that the FBI conducted about 500,000 fewer background checks in December 2016 then in 2015. Gun sales this year have reportedly dropped about 17 percent. [...]
:nelson:
Hilarious...Mouthbreathers go apeshit over Obama, but the guy demolishing the budget to jack up domestic law enforcement to Stasi levels doesn't bother them at all. They must honestly believe being white is going to matter.
Quote from: Zanza on April 01, 2017, 02:34:00 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/01/without-obama-once-booming-gun-industry-poised-to-shrink.html
QuoteWithout Obama, once-booming gun industry poised to shrink
President Trump's election appears to be negatively affecting gun sales in the U.S. and the bubble appears to be bursting despite a staunch advocate for gun rights in the White House and Republicans ruling Congress.
"President Obama was the best gun salesman the world has ever seen," Karl Sorken, a production manager at Battle Rifle Co. in Houston. Sorken is an Army veteran and self-described liberal who voted for Obama and notes the change for the industry under Trump is a topic of conversation in the shop.
Fears of government limits on guns -- some real, some perceived -- led to a surge in demand during Obama's tenure and manufacturers leapt to keep up. Over the decade ending in 2015, the number of U.S. companies licensed to make firearms jumped 362 percent.
"The trends really almost since Election Day or election night have been that gun sales have slacked off," said Robert Spitzer, political science department chairman at State University of New York at Cortland. "When you take away Barack Obama and you give the Republicans control of both houses of Congress, which is extremely friendly to the gun lobby, then the political pressure subsides. And that surely is at least a key part of the explanation for the drop-off in sales."
The Washington Post reported that the FBI conducted about 500,000 fewer background checks in December 2016 then in 2015. Gun sales this year have reportedly dropped about 17 percent. [...]
:nelson:
Eh it will drive prices down to where it should have been. Particularly on the secondary online markets.
:nelson:
I still get a chuckle when I think of the dudes buying AR's for 3K back in the day.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 07:57:14 PM
I still get a chuckle when I think of the dudes buying AR's for 3K back in the day.
Fucking loopy. The gun ranges are overrun with those shitheads.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 01, 2017, 08:00:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 07:57:14 PM
I still get a chuckle when I think of the dudes buying AR's for 3K back in the day.
Fucking loopy. The gun ranges are overrun with those shitheads.
Only ones worse are the Spetnaz groupies with Ak-74's.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 01, 2017, 08:00:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 07:57:14 PM
I still get a chuckle when I think of the dudes buying AR's for 3K back in the day.
Fucking loopy. The gun ranges are overrun with those shitheads.
(https://im.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-1-b7c28a1dc0.gif)
That is a shotgun silly.
It's a funny somewhat related gif. :moon:
I enjoyed it. :)
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 08:58:27 PM
That is a shotgun silly.
ARs have clips and shotguns don't, is that how you can tell?
Why not?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 01, 2017, 09:29:29 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 08:58:27 PM
That is a shotgun silly.
ARs have clips and shotguns don't, is that how you can tell?
My Vepr has clips. :nerd:
Enough with the fucking Russian bullshit already. Goddamn. You know, for a bunch of star-spangled assfucks, you sure suck enough Russian and Chicom cock. Fucking monkeyfucks.
Trump gave me a 20% off coupon.
I'll build another AR in hopes that it will please Seedy.
The local Fred Meyer (for you non-NW types, it's like a Target or Walmart) had a KelTec KSG on sale. I was tempted...
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 02, 2017, 08:55:35 PM
Enough with the fucking Russian bullshit already. Goddamn. You know, for a bunch of star-spangled assfucks, you sure suck enough Russian and Chicom cock. Fucking monkeyfucks.
Ya know, your godamned right. Buy 'Murican.
Bite me. I want an RPK.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 14, 2017, 07:10:57 PM
Bite me. I want an RPK.
And besides...Hitler needs his Luger.
Noticed a semi-auto SAW for 7500 bucks on a website. lolz.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 17, 2017, 09:22:09 PM
Noticed a semi-auto SAW for 7500 bucks on a website. lolz.
If the seller's screen name is "Millie Terry," it's a sting.
Flowers By Irene actually.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3240/2313560258_47330e5339.jpg)
Shot for qualification today on the revolver course. That paper target ain't getting back up, that's for sure.
Also did the course and filed the paperwork for the Utah carry license, which pretty much amounts to "Utah's not responsible for shit you do in other states." :lol:
Why are you getting a Utah license? :hmm:
The 2nd Amendment: It's Everywhere You Want To Be!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/us/06guns.html
Welcome back, Seedy :hug:
I carried concealed in WV this past week-- without a permit. Because: freedom.
Eat ATF cock, sovereign fucktard.
"Laws for carrying concealed firearms vary widely by state, as do issuing standards for permits. New York, New Jersey and Connecticut do not honor other states' permits. "
It sucks living in a fascist state without freedom.
Move to Vermont.
I expect mandatory open carry (as in you MUST be armed in public) in Republican states within the next 2 decades.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 24, 2017, 09:40:41 AM
Move to Vermont.
Or Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Montana, North Dakota, West Virginia, and Wyoming. Plus other states with certain restrictions.
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
I want to have an AI controlled drone armed with a high velocity rifle shadowing me, it will take out my enemies from hundreds of yards away on a moment's notice. Just have to keep those French eagles away from it.
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
Have you been to West Virginia? Scary mountain people everywhere.
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
Nothing, really. But I generally carry when I'm out in the boonies.
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
Have you been to West Virginia? Scary mountain people everywhere.
Even though derspiess is a race traitor he's not black, so he has nothing to be afraid of in Wild, Wonderful West Virginia.
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
Yes it is rather 'odd' isn't it.
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
"Armed Americans" would be a rational answer. :hmm:
I always carry. But I have the permit. I don't do that open carry crap.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 24, 2017, 07:27:27 PM
I always carry. But I have the permit. I don't do that open carry crap.
I just renewed my permit. It's waiting at the Sheriff's office but I haven't had time to get it yet.... hopefully on Thursday after I get back from Chicago. MAH PAPERS
MAH MAGAZINE EJECTED
Haven't done one of those in awhile. :)
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/kAq6HQVQmK5WM/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/L7T0nM30U2jDi/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 24, 2017, 07:31:48 PM
MAH MAGAZINE EJECTED
Haven't done one of those in awhile. :)
Saw that happen at the range yesterday with Mr. Sig Sauer, My revolver laughed at him.
Make those six shots count.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 24, 2017, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:16:13 AM
In WV last weekend I just carried my 1911 on my belt with my fleece pullover over top of it.
Why? What exactly are you afraid of in West Virginia?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/kAq6HQVQmK5WM/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/L7T0nM30U2jDi/giphy.gif)
Or as derspicy calls them, Kin!
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2017, 11:23:31 PM
Make those six shots count.
Go fuck yourself, Zimmerman, you fucking psycho niggerhunter. All I need is one.
Quote from: katmai on April 25, 2017, 12:29:12 AM
Or as derspicy calls them, Kin!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bzy4z7AIYAAftty.jpg)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 24, 2017, 07:31:48 PM
MAH MAGAZINE EJECTED
Haven't done one of those in awhile. :)
Saw that happen at the range yesterday with Mr. Sig Sauer, My revolver laughed at him.
Ugh. Sig Sauer fanboys.
A guy at the range the other day let me shoot his FNX-45 Tactical by FN. What a well-designed pistol-- nice ergonomics, very accurate, feels like half the weight of my 1911 and somehow less recoil. If I just had $1300 burning a hole in my pocket.
Dress like a turkey get shot like a turkey
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/hunters-expected-to-recover-from-injuries-after-being-mistaken-for-actual-turkeys/ar-BBAmGCg?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
Shame. Now he can't use that excuse again.
Quote from: HVC on April 25, 2017, 03:22:29 PM
Dress like a turkey get shot like a turkey
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/hunters-expected-to-recover-from-injuries-after-being-mistaken-for-actual-turkeys/ar-BBAmGCg?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
Reminds me of a picture I saw once in an ad for hunting gear, years ago. Showed some proud hunters standing over a deer they had shot. They were wearing what looked like deer suits, complete with antlers, presumably so they could sneak up on the deer.
All I could think of was "what kind of moron goes outdoors in deer hunting season wearing a deer suit?" :lol: And "why are they advertising this stupidity like it was normal?"
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
The lazy mans hunting experience :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
#BurmeseTurkeyTrap
Quote from: HVC on April 25, 2017, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
The lazy mans hunting experience :lol:
Should be doing it from a copter!
:hmm: I like it.
Quote from: HVC on April 25, 2017, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
The lazy mans hunting experience :lol:
It gets lazier.
A Quebec outfit near our far northern cottage was engaged in "bear bating".
What this involves, is setting up fancy camouflaged shelters, and then setting up bear feeding stations a few yards in front of them. Then, spend a while setting out food for the bears, get them used to coming to those stations, and habituated to these nice folks who feed them.
Then, sell to American tourists the chance to hunt a real live bear!
The tourist goes into the shelter ... and lo and behold, a bear wanders right in front of the shelter! At such a close range, even the lamest and most myopic American tourist can't fail to hit. The tourist goes home delighted to play the mighty hunter, and the guide gets a big tip.
what's the percentage chance of the bear eating the tourist? Because that would be funny.
Quote from: HVC on April 26, 2017, 08:53:26 AM
what's the percentage chance of the bear eating the tourist? Because that would be funny.
Close to 0%. Black bears aren't particularly dangerous. Every once in a while one attacks someone, but it is very unusual. Plus, they have an experienced (and armed) guide with them. They are probably safer than if they went to Disneyland.
Interestingly, the practice is completely legal (though regulated - can't bait in certain places at certain times).
https://www.mffp.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/hunting-regulations/big-game/baiting-bear.asp
Time to introduce some grizzlies, just to spice things up.
HVC demands blood.
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
Do you hunt turkey? Some of the Amtrak guys I work with in Michigan do. They said they're a pain to clean.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 26, 2017, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
Do you hunt turkey? Some of the Amtrak guys I work with in Michigan do. They said they're a pain to clean.
If you do Tom Brady needs your support:
http://www.wjbdradio.com/national-news/2017/04/26/boston-overrun-by-wild-turkeys
QuoteBoston overrun by wild turkeys
The capital of Massachusetts is under attack -- by turkeys.
The Boston Globe reports that the Massachusetts Department of Fisheries and Wildlife, or MassWildlife, issued a notice urging citizens to be vigilant in the event of a turkey attack.
Officials from MassWildlife said, "March through May is breeding season for wild turkeys, which means some turkeys may be seen acting aggressively or completely ignoring the presence of people. Males will puff out their feathers, fan their tails, and 'strut their stuff.'"
The best way to scare off a wild turkey, they said, is to make loud noises. You can also spray the birds with a hose. Dogs may also be "an effective deterrent."
Wild turkeys have been spotted in and around the city. On April 6, two turkeys crossed six lanes of traffic on I-95 during rush hour, forcing cars to swerve around them.
MassWildlife said the birds are relentless and should be avoided: "Turkeys may attempt to dominate or attack people that they view as subordinates. And this behavior is observed most often during breeding season."
The birds have charged people in acts of aggression in the neighborhood of Brookline and terrorized residents in Foxborough, where the Patriots play.
Luckily for some, breeding season makes for good hunting. Licensed wild turkey hunting is permitted in the spring and fall, with spring season running from Monday, April 24, to May 20.
Jack Buckley, director of MassWildlife, said, "We want to make both hunters and potential hunters aware of Wild Turkey Hunting Season because it is a great recreational activity for individuals and families."
Not so much for the turkeys.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 26, 2017, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 25, 2017, 04:18:16 PM
That is dumb. I just set up in a fully enclosed (now heated) shelter and wait.
Do you hunt turkey? Some of the Amtrak guys I work with in Michigan do. They said they're a pain to clean.
Not regularly, but I have. My uncle takes care of all that, same as if I take a deer.
I fucking giggle when I see a dude with a Hi Point pistol at the range.
Pretty rich coming from somebody whose gun collection looks like the press conference scene from The Green Berets.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh130%2Frmwva%2Faldo.jpg&hash=757ebc16b6aba07ee63b351d62f4190b5a491da3)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 24, 2017, 07:31:48 PM
MAH MAGAZINE EJECTED
Haven't done one of those in awhile. :)
Saw that happen at the range yesterday with Mr. Sig Sauer, My revolver laughed at him.
No jams with the wheel gun either oldtimer.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 26, 2017, 08:28:17 PM
Pretty rich coming from somebody whose gun collection looks like the press conference scene from The Green Berets.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh130%2Frmwva%2Faldo.jpg&hash=757ebc16b6aba07ee63b351d62f4190b5a491da3)
Don't be jelly. I'll send my kids over to rough you up.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 08:42:39 PM
Don't be jelly. I'll send my kids over to rough you up.
STOP BLOCKING THE HALLWAYS
Speaking of the kids, the twins have gotten fairly good with their AR-15's. Still need to get them helmets to tap the magazines on.
I'M SORRY, CLIPS.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 08:11:47 PM
I fucking giggle when I see a dude with a Hi Point pistol at the range.
I have never seen a Hi Point at my range. It's usually someone shooting something way more expensive than what I have.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 08:59:05 PM
Speaking of the kids, the twins have gotten fairly good with their AR-15's. Still need to get them helmets to tap the magazines on.
I'M SORRY, CLIPS.
Are they: pink ARs?
Quotehttp://www.glamguns.com/mylittleponycarbine.jpg
Quote from: derspiess on April 26, 2017, 11:22:19 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 08:11:47 PM
I fucking giggle when I see a dude with a Hi Point pistol at the range.
I have never seen a Hi Point at my range. It's usually someone shooting something way more expensive than what I have.
Whats a Hi Point?
Quote from: Berkut on April 27, 2017, 07:39:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 26, 2017, 11:22:19 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 08:11:47 PM
I fucking giggle when I see a dude with a Hi Point pistol at the range.
I have never seen a Hi Point at my range. It's usually someone shooting something way more expensive than what I have.
Whats a Hi Point?
Very inexpensive semi-auto pistols, made right here in good old Ohio. Rather than using more complex locking mechanisms, all of their pistols are straight blowback designs. So the slides are necessarily heavy, making the pistol rather off-balanced, clunky and ugly. But supposedly they are reliable. Unlike most modern pistols, you have to use tools to field strip it.
The company will only make signal stack magazines of 10 rounds or less for the pistols, to discourage their use as cheap pieces for gangbangers.
I will say I've been tempted from time to time to buy their 9mm carbine :ph34r:
I am not a gun person at all, of course.
But I read a review of that FN45 Tactical that someone mentioned, and that thing makes me want to become a gun person.
You're not insecure enough about your own masculinity to need one of those clunky and expensive milspec toys, B. Get yourself a nice, sexy Beretta Cougar. Something that says, "Yes, I am comfortable with my penis size, thank you."
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 27, 2017, 08:47:09 AM
You're not insecure enough about your own masculinity to need one of those clunky and expensive milspec toys, B. Get yourself a nice, sexy Beretta Cougar. Something that says, "Yes, I am comfortable with my penis size, thank you."
Not this, then?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi627.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt356%2FFabled-Spartan%2Fmyweapon2.jpg&hash=c25d3afc76da8a457561845b08608eff100a6c13)
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 26, 2017, 11:39:46 PM
Quotehttp://www.glamguns.com/mylittleponycarbine.jpg
Just basic black AR's. Nothing fancy.
Quote from: Berkut on April 27, 2017, 08:38:19 AM
I am not a gun person at all, of course.
But I read a review of that FN45 Tactical that someone mentioned, and that thing makes me want to become a gun person.
Try shooting one. I had little interest in trying it out, but the guy practically forced it on me. Then about three magazines later I felt like I was maybe wearing out my welcome.
Very smooth action. Does not feel like you are shooting .45 ACP.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 27, 2017, 08:47:09 AM
You're not insecure enough about your own masculinity to need one of those clunky and expensive milspec toys, B. Get yourself a nice, sexy Beretta Cougar. Something that says, "Yes, I am comfortable with my penis size, thank you."
Beretta Storm. Dirt cheap. 17 round magazine. Bigger magazine=bigger erection
What I have ed. .40 variety
I've only really fired two handguns extensively.
The Model 1911 .45, and the Berretta 9F, both in the army of course.
I really don't care for the 9mm caliber.
On the other hand, I was a MUCH better shot with the 9F.
Terminal ballistics for a +P 9mm round are in the ballpark of .45 ACP. Not every 9mm handgun will handle that load, mind you.
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Terminal ballistics for a +P 9mm round are in the ballpark of .45 ACP. Not every 9mm handgun will handle that load, mind you.
English?
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Terminal ballistics for a +P 9mm round are in the ballpark of .45 ACP. Not every 9mm handgun will handle that load, mind you.
English?
If your objection to the 9mm round is that it's not powerful enough, there are 9mm rounds available that are much more powerful than the standard 9mm round-- some of them are roughly on par with the stopping power of a .45 ACP round. This "hotter" load is too hot for some 9mm pistols, but others such as the Glock 17 or 19, will fire it without any issue.
Thanks
Quote from: derspiess on April 27, 2017, 10:18:16 PM
I had little interest . . . but the guy practically forced it on me . . . later I felt like I was maybe wearing out my welcome.
Very smooth action..
Hmm . . .
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Terminal ballistics for a +P 9mm round are in the ballpark of .45 ACP. Not every 9mm handgun will handle that load, mind you.
English?
Just stick with the .45 ACP. As a bonus get in the GOVMIT model type pistol (M1911). You can also beat the shit gotta them with. All steel FTW
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2017, 08:43:24 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Terminal ballistics for a +P 9mm round are in the ballpark of .45 ACP. Not every 9mm handgun will handle that load, mind you.
English?
If your objection to the 9mm round is that it's not powerful enough, there are 9mm rounds available that are much more powerful than the standard 9mm round-- some of them are roughly on par with the stopping power of a .45 ACP round. This "hotter" load is too hot for some 9mm pistols, but others such as the Glock 17 or 19, will fire it without any issue.
Bah, Glock 20 or go home. :P
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2017, 06:30:41 PM
Just stick with the .45 ACP. As a bonus get in the GOVMIT model type pistol (M1911). You can also beat the shit gotta them with. All steel FTW
I love my 1911a1, but my Glock 17 carries 17 rounds. 17 rounds is good.
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2017, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2017, 06:30:41 PM
Just stick with the .45 ACP. As a bonus get in the GOVMIT model type pistol (M1911). You can also beat the shit gotta them with. All steel FTW
I love my 1911a1, but my Glock 17 carries 17 rounds. 17 rounds is good.
Eh, hit what your aiming at :P
gun nut fight!
Quote from: Berkut on April 29, 2017, 09:27:11 PM
I've only really fired two handguns extensively.
The Model 1911 .45, and the Berretta 9F, both in the army of course.
I really don't care for the 9mm caliber.
On the other hand, I was a MUCH better shot with the 9F.
Get a Ruger SP101 357 Mag, 2.25″. If 357 is too much, run 38 SPCL in it.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fammoland.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FRuger-SP101-357-Mag-2.25-with-Compact-Lasergrips.jpg%3F2ce9ba&hash=c8eb1a3973a88f3e829757e06bcd575d6bf28888)
And learn to use these
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jgsales.com%2Fimages%2F1%2520SPD%2520LDR%2520HKS%252036A%25207-824.jpg&hash=a9c6cd1eaa281eb2efdf1747882b4bfc9a87d4d5)
Then never look back
Home defense you say....
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mossberg.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F51660-catalog.jpg&hash=e3a1c41bcd14931814c807a9737452040b264295)
or
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgunsumerreports.com%2FRemington_870_Express_Tactical%2FRemington_870_Express_Tac_00_tn.JPG&hash=be9a7d1c74404bc4f2553a656d2633f562047463)
Load with 00 Buck or if worried about blowing through wall (apartments), load it with high base 4 or 6 shot
Oh and learn to patrol load and combat/port load correctly and smoothly.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2017, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2017, 06:58:24 PM
I love my 1911a1, but my Glock 17 carries 17 rounds. 17 rounds is good.
Eh, hit what your aiming at :P
See, we can't just bag our first darkie, we need to ventilate all the unfortunate shoppers as well.
Ruger LCR .357 is good in a ankle holster. Yes, I occasionally use an ankle backup. Eat me.
The point of an ankle holster--other than blood clots-is to actually be able to reach the holster, Hawking.
I can touch my toes, fatty.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
The point of an ankle holster--other than blood clots-is to actually be able to reach the holster, Hawking.
:lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2017, 08:09:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
The point of an ankle holster--other than blood clots-is to actually be able to reach the holster, Hawking.
:lol:
Hard to get to yours in the tiny guard shack. I KNOCKED OVER THE TV
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2017, 08:08:57 PM
I can touch my toes, fatty.
I can too :mad:
Just once, though. And then I have to lay down.
Hell, I get winded feeding the cat.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2017, 08:04:51 PM
Ruger LCR .357 is good in a ankle holster. Yes, I occasionally use an ankle backup. Eat me.
As above, dump the ankle and get a good molded hip holster. Your knee will thank you later.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
The point of an ankle holster--other than blood clots-is to actually be able to reach the holster, Hawking.
He has less of a grab distance because he's on a scooter.
I have a shoulder holster. Still not as cool as Steve McQueen though. :(
Hell, I even wore my vest recently. I was in Injun country.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2017, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
The point of an ankle holster--other than blood clots-is to actually be able to reach the holster, Hawking.
He has less of a grab distance because he's on a scooter.
Seedy is allowed to make scooter cracks. You aren't elite enough. :mad:
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2017, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 01, 2017, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
The point of an ankle holster--other than blood clots-is to actually be able to reach the holster, Hawking.
He has less of a grab distance because he's on a scooter.
Seedy is allowed to make scooter cracks. You aren't elite enough. :mad:
:lol: just pointing out the obvious.
QuotePost Nation
Death of Bearing Arms editor and gun-rights advocate Bob Owens has been ruled a suicide
By Kristine Phillips May 9 at 3:10 PM
Washington Post
Bob Owens, editor of the popular pro-gun blog BearingArms.com, died Monday in what authorities have ruled a suicide.
Officials say Owens shot himself in the head near his North Carolina home. He was found around 11 a.m. near a stop sign outside his subdivision in Fuquay-Varina, N.C., a town southwest of Raleigh. A gun was located nearby, according to the Fuquay-Varina Police Department.
Shortly before Owens's death, he apparently wrote a chilling message on Facebook: "In the end, it turns out that I'm not strong. I'm a coward, and selfish son of a b‑‑‑‑. I'm sorry."
Commenting on her husband's last Facebook post, his wife, Christine Zamzow Owens, wrote: "You were nothing but a wonderful husband, loving father and giving friend. You always did what you thought was right even though it was not the popular thing to do. You were never a coward, or selfish, just hurting. I love you baby, you were my world."
Posts about Owens, a shooting enthusiast and a well-known Second Amendment advocate, have flooded social media.
Count me among the many friends of @bob_owens grieving tonight. Please keep his family in your prayers.
— Cam Edwards (@CamEdwards) May 9, 2017
At an Atlanta restaurant a couple of weeks ago I ran into @bob_owens with @JennJacques
Sat next to him at dinner
Happy for the time, Bob
— Cameron Gray (@Cameron_Gray) May 9, 2017
On Tuesday morning, BearingArms.com published a story written by Jenn Jacques, Owens's co-editor.
Its headline: "We Are Diminished — R.I.P. Bob Owens."
"In the end, all that matters is he will be sorely missed, and the truth is that we will never truly know what happened," Jacques wrote. "What we do know is that while Bob was a huge part of the 2A world, he was first and foremost a son, brother, husband, father, and a friend."
In a statement, Jacques wrote on Twitter that she was "profoundly devastated."
"Even that phrase seems insignificant compared to what I'm feeling," Jacques said. " ... I am having an extremely hard time with this and am asking everyone to just focus on and pray for his family. He would laugh at how many tissues I went through writing this status. And I would do anything to hear that laugh again."
I apologize, but this is all I have to say at this time. Please keep his family in your prayers. pic.twitter.com/a2rNJcrCXQ
— Jenn Jacques (@JennJacques) May 9, 2017
Owens is survived by his wife and two daughters, ages 9 and 17, according to Bearing Arms.
The 46-year-old North Carolina native has been writing about gun rights and firearms since 2007. He started writing for the politics blog Confederate Yankee three years earlier.
In 2013, Townhall, a conservative media site that owns Bearing Arms, hired Owens to be the blog's editor.
"We're excited to bring Bob aboard to head one of the fastest growing online Second Amendment communities," Townhall Vice President and General Manager Jonathan Garthwaite said in a statement in October 2013, shortly after Bearing Arms launched. "In just the first month, Bearing Arms has received one million unique readers. Bob Owens brings tremendous knowledge and credibility to the brand."
Owens was a certified firearms instructor with roughly 400 hours of professional training class, according to a brief biography on BearingArms.com.
In one of his last articles for the site, Owens wrote about what it was like to be a firearms instructor.
"Thanks to my job, I get to do a lot of very cool firearms training classes and media events sponsored by manufacturers," he wrote in March. "From aerial target interdictions to storming a prison cell block full of terrorist robots while wearing night vision gear in the dead of night, to shooting machine guns and $25,000 precision rifles, I've had a blast. Literally."
In a 2006 interview with The Washington Post, Owens said he had always enjoyed writing and always felt "people were entitled to my opinion." At the time, Owens was author of Confederate Yankee.
"What constantly amazes me is that literally tens of people each day willingly volunteer to submit themselves to my hits and missives, and many become regular readers," Owens said.
He also said that if he weren't a blogger, he would've been a soldier; but, he said, his left knee "refused to cooperate."
"My high school guidance counselor suggested the Forest Service, which would not have been a bad choice, but I wouldn't mind being a hunting or fishing guide, either," Owens said.
Politically, Owens said he was an advocate of small government, low taxes and "muscular projection of foreign policy."
Owens has been a vocal critic of Hillary Clinton and gun control groups such as Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America and Everytown for Gun Safety.
Shortly after President Trump was elected, Owens described Clinton's candidacy as one driven by "an attitude of 'I deserve this.'"
"When many voters feel that the nominee was selected by people within the upper reaches of party because it was 'her turn,' and that the nomination was rigged by the party to exclude worthwhile challengers, it turns off voters," Owens wrote, adding later: "You also have to convince voters that it is vital for people to actually show up on election day and cast their ballots, which Mrs. Clinton simply did not do."
In an article in August, Owens called Clinton's gun policies "radical" and said she was "the most dangerous and corrupt candidate to ever be nominated for President."
Clinton has maintained that while she respects the Second Amendment, she's also a proponent of expanding background checks, tightening restrictions for gun purchases, and reinstating the ban on assault weapons.
Owens also criticized the Black Lives Matter movement, calling it "an attempt by left wing radicals to delegitimize local law enforcement."
"Black Lives Matter is a lie ... and it is being used to incite domestic terrorism," Owens wrote in September, in an article that he said was in response to an email from a high school student asking about his thoughts about Black Lives Matter.
According to his personal website, Owens was working on a novel, "The Long Way Home." He'd published a short e-book titled "So You Want to Own a Gun," a reference guide for citizens thinking about buying a firearm for the first time.
Asking for you to take a moment and consider donating here to help the family of a fallen friend. https://t.co/Je7SBNTKtN
— Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) May 9, 2017
RIP Bob Owens, editor of Bearing Arms. The fact that there are people on the left joyous of this news shows how depraved they have become.
— Carmine Sabia (@CarmineSabia) May 9, 2017
#RIP from a fellow @GunsiteAcademy alumnus. https://t.co/LG45TdpsUG
— Johannes Paulsen (@Real_Johannes_P) May 9, 2017
Wannabe douche
I guess you can say that's one handgun violence statistic the NRA can't block from the CDC.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2017, 07:59:40 PM
I guess you can say that's one handgun violence statistic the NRA can't block from the CDC.
I wonder what was running through his mind.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2017, 08:01:55 PM
I wonder what was running through his mind.
It was probably at a fast clip.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2017, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2017, 08:01:55 PM
I wonder what was running through his mind.
It was probably at a fast clip.
That has a grain of truth
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2017, 08:21:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 09, 2017, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 09, 2017, 08:01:55 PM
I wonder what was running through his mind.
It was probably at a fast clip.
That has a grain of truth
I think it's hard to gauge that with any accuracy.
Really, we're going to make puns about someone's death? :bleeding:
Fuck this guy. 2nd Amendment to the max.
I did an inventory for insurance purposes. I have waaaay too many guns.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 10, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
I did an inventory for insurance purposes. I have waaaay too many guns.
I don't see that, one per son/daughter and a couple of spares?
Quote from: mongers on May 10, 2017, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 10, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
I did an inventory for insurance purposes. I have waaaay too many guns.
I don't see that, one per son/daughter and a couple of spares?
One for every minority family in the neighborhood.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 10, 2017, 12:17:40 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 10, 2017, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 10, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
I did an inventory for insurance purposes. I have waaaay too many guns.
I don't see that, one per son/daughter and a couple of spares?
One for every minority family in the neighborhood.
Naw, that's "clips".
Or "magazines", depending. ;)
Quote from: mongers on May 10, 2017, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 10, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
I did an inventory for insurance purposes. I have waaaay too many guns.
I don't see that, one per son/daughter and a couple of spares?
More like, HEY A BERETTA STORM FOR 300 BUCKS. SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUN? YES PLEASE.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F1z6a6j9.jpg&hash=a43555da7e500de1b8f5b3deb39f173b292316af)
Chicks, man.
Easy mistake before that first cup of coffee, man. OOH BAGELS
Oy vey
Probably NCIS
Bounty hunters do a bang up job. 3 people dead in a shoot out at a car dealership in texas.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/bounty-hunters-and-fugitive-killed-in-dramatic-shootout-caught-on-video/ar-BBBMrho?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp
Bounty hunters. We don't need their scum.
You're looking at it the wrong way seedy. There's now some job openings in Texas.
Bounty hunting is bullshit. Only group with more psychos, misfits, fucktards and criminals than Blackwater-type "contractors".
I go after my own bails.
"You a bounty hunter?"
"A man's gotta do something for a living these days."
"Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy."
Stupid Fucks
https://bluelivesmatter.blue/video-ramon-hutchinson-bounty-hunters/
QuoteGun in hand, the bounty hunters both went hands-on as Hutchinson drew his gun and dropped it on the table.
Now see boys and girls...in CdMLand, that's where the story fucking ends.
QuoteThose who knew the bounty hunters said that they were professionals and never would have misrepresented themselves as federal agents.
:lol: the fuck they wouldn't. Lying ass wannabes.
QuoteBounty hunters make 10% of the amount of the posted bond for their fugitives,
Incorrect. You get paid what we pay you. Don't like it, talk to Yi about the myth of wage stagnation.
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2017, 10:42:45 AM
Bounty hunters do a bang up job. 3 people dead in a shoot out at a car dealership in texas.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/bounty-hunters-and-fugitive-killed-in-dramatic-shootout-caught-on-video/ar-BBBMrho?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp
So the fugitive killed both bounty hunters and was killed himself? Is that the sum of it?
I can imagine worse outcomes...
Well, somebody didn't meet their sales goal for the month, but the media's not talking about that.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/year-accidentally-shot-dead-year-cousin-nashville-police/story?id=47886882
Quote7-year-old accidentally shot dead by 2-year-old cousin, Nashville police say
Police in Nashville, Tennessee, believe a 2-year-old accidentally shot dead his 7-year-old cousin on Tuesday afternoon.
The victim, 7-year-old Harmony Warfield, was in an apartment Tuesday with four relatives: her 29-year-old aunt and children ages 14, 11 and 2, the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department said in a news release Tuesday evening.
"The children were in the kitchen area when a shot was heard," police said. "The 14-year-old reported that the 2-year-old was holding a pistol."
Harmony was taken to Vanderbilt University Medical Center, where she died, police said.
Police said the pistol has not been recovered.
Police said they were told that a friend of the 29-year-old aunt, 27-year-old Anthony Sanders, was outside when the shot was fired. Sanders allegedly "went inside the apartment to see what happened, and then ran from the area," police said.
Police are looking for Sanders to question him about his knowledge of the gun. Anyone who sees him is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 615-742-7463.
On average, seven children and teenagers (age 19 or under) are killed with guns in the U.S. each day, according to Everytown for Gun Safety, which cited data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Other stories:
Grandmother of Chicago girl shot in head says she's 'fighting for her life at 11 years old'
Girl, 6, starts school a month after being shot in the head
At one of the gun ranges I use, the safety guy on the line has the nickname of Bullshit Bobby. Fucker has the poorest trigger discipline I've seen and when he talks, he gestures with the pistol in his hand. The fun part is he failed becoming a cop and is a wannabe. Yes, he one of those.
I don't think I'm going there anymore. Just to the gun store part.
Is this NRA video I see going around facebook for real?
https://www.facebook.com/NRA/videos/1605896562755373/
Because WTF does that have to do with gun rights? But I will say making yourself sound like a right wing militia does inspire me to think about getting a gun so well played NRA. :lol: :ph34r:
I guess they miss Obama but holy shit. I probably should be upset but that is such fear mongering bullshit I cannot stop from laughing at it. Is it fake? Fake NRA video news?
Chick needs to chill.
:huh:
Thinning the gene pool
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/28/charges-filed-after-youtube-gun-stunt-gone-wrong-leaves-boyfriend-dead.html
Well at least they tested it first before they filmed it.
I dunno, William S. Burroughs didn't have any problems.
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2017, 03:07:23 PM
Is this NRA video I see going around facebook for real?
https://www.facebook.com/NRA/videos/1605896562755373/
Because WTF does that have to do with gun rights? But I will say making yourself sound like a right wing militia does inspire me to think about getting a gun so well played NRA. :lol: :ph34r:
I guess they miss Obama but holy shit. I probably should be upset but that is such fear mongering bullshit I cannot stop from laughing at it. Is it fake? Fake NRA video news?
No. It's a real one, and it features the NRA spokeswoman. You can find it on the NRA YouTube channel.
It basically implies you should arm yourself in preparation for another civil war.
She certainly deserves a clenched fist of truth, alright. Several of them. In various orifices.
Why does the NRA or its members care what is happening in cities? They should just be happy that they aren't forced to live in them. :huh:
Hey, the NRA video has the SuperBeets lady! :w00t:
What was up with awards shows outrage? Clemson fans mad about how the Liberals gave the Heisman to Lamar Jackson?
Anyway it was fun and all when the NRA was threatening to overthrow oppressive governments but lets back off from going fully insane eh guys?
They are already broken and fully insane.
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 28, 2017, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2017, 03:07:23 PM
Is this NRA video I see going around facebook for real?
https://www.facebook.com/NRA/videos/1605896562755373/
Because WTF does that have to do with gun rights? But I will say making yourself sound like a right wing militia does inspire me to think about getting a gun so well played NRA. :lol: :ph34r:
I guess they miss Obama but holy shit. I probably should be upset but that is such fear mongering bullshit I cannot stop from laughing at it. Is it fake? Fake NRA video news?
No. It's a real one, and it features the NRA spokeswoman. You can find it on the NRA YouTube channel.
It basically implies you should arm yourself in preparation for another civil war.
it's a really scary country you live in.
You should get a gun too, the NRA fans are likely to start shooting at every non armed resident for fear of them being dangerous radicals.
Angry lady. I tempted to say she needs to smoke some weed but it would it just worsen the paranoia.
(https://i.imgsafe.org/59e49ec889.jpeg)
Tamas just fainted.
Hey Ed, thinking about buying my first handgun in 20 years. :lol: Probably going with the Walther PPK. If I get this gig I interviewed for, I'll be carrying at work.
Dad gave me his Glock 27 :bleeding: and I'll always have my S&W snubbies; but as I get older I want to get something comfier and the PPK feels just right, especially in a suit.
It is a fun little gun. :)
Elegant choice. PPK is a classy pistol.
Is that seriously the same chick? :lol:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2017, 08:44:06 PM
Is that seriously the same chick? :lol:
Yep. Dana Loesch. If I spelled that right.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2017, 08:41:50 PM
Elegant choice. PPK is a classy pistol.
Dad says I don't get my birthright, his .38 Colt Cobra, until he dies. Fucking thing's older than I am. :lol:
My dad won't part with his Colt Python. So I got a Ruger LCR.
NOT THE SAME
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2017, 09:12:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 29, 2017, 08:41:50 PM
Elegant choice. PPK is a classy pistol.
Dad says I don't get my birthright, his .38 Colt Cobra, until he dies. Fucking thing's older than I am. :lol:
Snubbies say I'm not afraid to get close and personal. ;)
Better late than never I guess.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-judge-rules-floridas-new-stand-your-ground-law-is-unconstitutional/ar-BBDFVMh?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Quote
MIAMI — Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.
The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.
"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.
The ruling is a victory for prosecutors who have firmly opposed the law they believe makes it easier for defendants to get away with murder and other violent crime.
And that's going to change things how exactly?
Quote from: 11B4V on July 03, 2017, 06:00:18 PM
Better late than never I guess.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-judge-rules-floridas-new-stand-your-ground-law-is-unconstitutional/ar-BBDFVMh?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Quote
MIAMI — Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.
The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.
"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.
The ruling is a victory for prosecutors who have firmly opposed the law they believe makes it easier for defendants to get away with murder and other violent crime.
Putting aside the issue on struck-down law...having judges decide what falls under separation of powers sounds like an unsound way to determine separation of powers. :hmm:
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 03, 2017, 06:29:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 03, 2017, 06:00:18 PM
Better late than never I guess.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-judge-rules-floridas-new-stand-your-ground-law-is-unconstitutional/ar-BBDFVMh?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Quote
MIAMI — Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.
The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.
"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.
The ruling is a victory for prosecutors who have firmly opposed the law they believe makes it easier for defendants to get away with murder and other violent crime.
Putting aside the issue on struck-down law...having judges decide what falls under separation of powers sounds like an unsound way to determine separation of powers. :hmm:
Beyond that, I'm not sure how it's a separation of power issue, anyway, but I've never even seen a copy of the Florida constitution, so who knows?
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 03, 2017, 06:29:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 03, 2017, 06:00:18 PM
Better late than never I guess.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-judge-rules-floridas-new-stand-your-ground-law-is-unconstitutional/ar-BBDFVMh?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Quote
MIAMI — Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.
The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.
"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.
The ruling is a victory for prosecutors who have firmly opposed the law they believe makes it easier for defendants to get away with murder and other violent crime.
Putting aside the issue on struck-down law...having judges decide what falls under separation of powers sounds like an unsound way to determine separation of powers. :hmm:
Uh, who exactly ought to decide a separation of powers issue? :hmm:
If you don't like that, you will love this: if a litigant before a court thinks the judge is biased or in a conflict of interest, they must bring a motion before - that same judge - to decide. :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2017, 08:23:02 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 03, 2017, 06:29:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 03, 2017, 06:00:18 PM
Better late than never I guess.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-judge-rules-floridas-new-stand-your-ground-law-is-unconstitutional/ar-BBDFVMh?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Quote
MIAMI — Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.
The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.
"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.
The ruling is a victory for prosecutors who have firmly opposed the law they believe makes it easier for defendants to get away with murder and other violent crime.
Putting aside the issue on struck-down law...having judges decide what falls under separation of powers sounds like an unsound way to determine separation of powers. :hmm:
Uh, who exactly ought to decide a separation of powers issue? :hmm:
Yeah, isn't it part of judicial responsibilities to judge situations? Who would indeed be better qualified?
The Florida Constitution is a bit unusual - it actually vests law-making powers in the Supreme Court, although only procedural law.
Got my Utah permit in the mail. You may commence your worship.
I was trying to come up with a joke that involved both polygamy and antiquated revolvers, but I have a conference call in 6 minutes so I don't have the time.
Quote from: derspiess on July 10, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
I was trying to come up with a joke that involved both polygamy and antiquated revolvers, but I have a conference call in 6 minutes so I don't have the time.
Dude, it writes itself.
Q: What does a revolver and a polygamist have in common?
A: You hear the same noise six times.
There, about 30 seconds. That's gold, Jerry! Comedy gold!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 10, 2017, 11:01:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 10, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
I was trying to come up with a joke that involved both polygamy and antiquated revolvers, but I have a conference call in 6 minutes so I don't have the time.
Dude, it writes itself.
Q: What does a revolver and a polygamist have in common?
A: You hear the same noise six times.
There, about 30 seconds. That's gold, Jerry! Comedy gold!
:D
What's the difference between a revolver and a polygamist?
The main drawback of the one is the long reload time. The other's a revolver.
Lol, Gold!
Meh. Like listening to Jackie Mason tell a joke. Oy vey
So what is up with NRA making a video that they are coming for the New York Times?
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2017, 03:18:14 PM
So what is up with NRA making a video that they are coming for the New York Times?
When a presidential candidate can suggest that "2nd Amendment people" can stop another candidate, what's the big deal about a newspaper amirite?
I bet Dana Loesch is an incredible submissive slut, though. Anybody that angry is usually the angriest at Daddy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 05, 2017, 09:13:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2017, 03:18:14 PM
So what is up with NRA making a video that they are coming for the New York Times?
When a presidential candidate can suggest that "2nd Amendment people" can stop another candidate, what's the big deal about a newspaper amirite?
I bet Dana Loesch is an incredible submissive slut, though. Anybody that angry is usually the angriest at Daddy.
Tamas dreams about her SuperBeets ads.
Oh Walmart, you stinker you.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGz4-fFUwAAUSIt.jpg)
Nice.... :lol:
Nice case. The Wally World actually looks clean.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2017/07/28/with-me-as-your-guide-worlds-largest-bat-colony-austin-texas-orig.cnn/video/playlists/stories-worth-watching/
Picked up a Mossberg 500 on a screaming deal.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953357_10213552764284672_1974387184186953100_n.jpg?oh=ace4c8ad8dedc99340a19898193c3d20&oe=5A14D99A)
i've been thinking about getting a handgun.
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
i've been thinking about getting a handgun.
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
How good are fingerprint gun locks these days?
If I lived in a place where handguns were legal, that's what I'd look into. On the internet, at least, they look fast and user-friendly, but I have no idea how they work in reality.
I just leave mine laying around, on like a coffee table or something. Fully loaded. Safety off.
'MERICA
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
i've been thinking about getting a handgun.
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
For carry?
if not
If just for in home defense, if I could give a recommendation, get you a "no frills" Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 12 gauge w/ 18"-20" barrel. You don't need all the fancy tactical bullshit. Its overrated anyway.
You wont need slugs or 00 buck, that shit will blow through walls. Load with regular 2 3/4 low base 7 or 8 shot shells (see pic). Your range will be very close inside a residence.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.midwayusa.com%2Fproductimages%2F880x660%2FPrimary%2F493%2F493757.jpg&hash=d4312814deead9f8c5cbf411fe0ee13df5ca87d3)
Is a shotgun as handgun even legal?
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2017, 03:05:21 PM
Is a shotgun as handgun even legal?
I don't understand the question.
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
i've been thinking about getting a handgun.
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
This is what I use. Very quick access and keeps the kiddos locked out: https://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV2000S-Multi-Vault-Standard/dp/B001XZZA6A/ref=pd_sim_60_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3YSERMSEKBYEPY3MS1BE
Quote from: Caliga on August 23, 2017, 02:49:33 PM
I just leave mine laying around, on like a coffee table or something. Fully loaded. Safety off.
'MERICA
That's okay, because the magazine always falls out before anyone tries to fire it? :hmm:
:P
Or if you don't feel like cleaning up a bunch of blood.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.sportsmansguide.com%2Fadimgs%2Fl%2F1%2F10451m2_ts.jpg&hash=4cdfae98fc999372e2731797037229e737c268ae)
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
What makes securing a firearm in a condo any different than securing it in any other kind of dwelling?
Maybe he misspelled? Condom? Condor?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 03:36:50 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
What makes securing a firearm in a condo any different than securing it in any other kind of dwelling?
I assume, less space for big heavy gun safes.
Quote from: Malthus on August 23, 2017, 03:49:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 03:36:50 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:33:22 PM
Given that I live in a condo, what would I need to properly secure it, while still making it reasonably accessible?
What makes securing a firearm in a condo any different than securing it in any other kind of dwelling?
I assume, less space for big heavy gun safes.
COrrect. I don't have anyplace for a large safe, and the condo is small, so having to go get the gun if I needed to is no big deal - nothing is all that far away.
Just please don't use that Cobra pocket pistol for self defense.
If you're only getting one (1) handgun, there are secure gun safes the size of shoe boxes. Perfect fit under the bed for the modern man-about-town. Hell, I have one that fits in my nightstand drawer.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:46:38 PM
If you're only getting one (1) handgun, there are secure gun safes the size of shoe boxes. Perfect fit under the bed for the modern man-about-town. Hell, I have one that fits in my nightstand drawer.
Hipster
Quote from: 11B4V on August 23, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:46:38 PM
If you're only getting one (1) handgun, there are secure gun safes the size of shoe boxes. Perfect fit under the bed for the modern man-about-town. Hell, I have one that fits in my nightstand drawer.
Hipster
I have them, I didn't say I use them. The shoulder holster is slung over the back of the chair, in proper
noir fashion.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 23, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:46:38 PM
If you're only getting one (1) handgun, there are secure gun safes the size of shoe boxes. Perfect fit under the bed for the modern man-about-town. Hell, I have one that fits in my nightstand drawer.
Hipster
I have them, I didn't say I use them. The shoulder holster is slung over the back of the chair, in proper noir fashion.
Nice.
New rifle should be here Wednesday. Finland FTW.
It's getting cooler. And that means the layered look.
So I've heard the guy was rich, which puts a different spin on it.
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
If the crowd had been carrying sniper rifles they could have taken out the shooter.
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
I know. I see people complaining that "the gun will be blamed". Poor gun.
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
Like what?
Quote from: derspiess on October 03, 2017, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
Like what?
Watch it, Tamas! He's got a bead on you!
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
:rolleyes: Now is not the time to politicize this, 59 people just died.
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2017, 05:46:31 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I have found it really disgusting that a lot of people in the US are coming up with defenses, immediately after a single guy mows down 600, on why there is no problem with the gun culture in their country. It is sickening.
:rolleyes: Now is not the time to politicize this, 59 people just died.
'Yeah, lets talk gun control in a while, sometime down the road; preferably when I'm on a golfing holiday.'
I agree you wouldn't want to politicize it.
Like, for example, after the shooting at the Congressional baseball game in Virginia, you'd want to wait at least one day before blaming it all on the "Left"
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2017/6/15/how-the-left-incites-violence-then-spins-it-into-justification-for-more-gun-control/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=americas1stfreedom_org_articles_2017_6_15_how-the-left-incites-violence-then-spins-it-into-justification-for-more-gun-control-2017-06-15&utm_campaign=Article
Unless nutbags starting taking out congressional representatives on mass or going after the NRA ain't nothing going to change. Too much money in bribes, err I mean donations.
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
New rifle should be here Wednesday. Finland FTW.
Just curious, which one?
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2017, 07:45:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
New rifle should be here Wednesday. Finland FTW.
Just curious, which one?
Tikka Hunter in 8x57mm. It's my third modern action in 8x57mm. The other two are a Remington 700 and a custom Winchester M70. I will also will be starting load development on Frankenstein. It's a 1926 Polish small ring M98 action, timney trigger adjusted two pounds, ER Shaw barrel, bedded in a B&C stock, Interarms floor plate/trigger guard, 3-9x scope. Caliber is 6.5x55mm Swedish.
Look at you, Mister Fancy Pants.
You were hoping for a Rk 62? :P
MouthSugarX57mm. Homo.
I use Putinx62mm
I believe I may own more European calibers than American in regards to longtime.
Not even a homo. An un-American homo.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2017, 08:26:04 PM
Not even a homo. An un-American homo.
Pardon, I have some reloading to do. :blurgh:
Seedy likes my Russian weapons.
Fuck you, and fuck derChiCom and his lead paint counterfeits, too.
Gonna go to the range this weekend and burn off some 9mm and 7.62. Haven't been in a long time, so that'll be fun.
I'll bayonet something with the SKS just for you, Seedy.
Has anyone ever fired a Tavor, or really any kind of bullpup?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 03, 2017, 08:35:43 PM
Fuck you, and fuck derChiCom and his lead paint counterfeits, too.
I have never owned a ChiCom firearm :angry:
I missed the boat when those Norinco SKSes were $85 NIB. I refuse to pay post-ban prices for any of that crap. My Yugoslavia SKS does just fine. And it has a grenade launcher attached to the muzzle.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 03, 2017, 09:13:56 PM
Gonna go to the range this weekend and burn off some 9mm and 7.62. Haven't been in a long time, so that'll be fun.
I'll bayonet something with the SKS just for you, Seedy.
Has anyone ever fired a Tavor, or really any kind of bullpup?
A guy at the range let me fire his Tavor. Trigger pull was nicer than expected. Really nice rifle. Bullpups just aren't my thing though.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2017, 08:34:53 PM
Seedy likes my Russian weapons.
He likes a Facebook account?
Quote from: derspiess on October 03, 2017, 09:50:57 PM
My Yugoslavia SKS does just fine. And it has a grenade launcher attached to the muzzle.
(https://i.imgur.com/vB9B5.gif)
QuoteA guy at the range let me fire his Tavor. Trigger pull was nicer than expected. Really nice rifle. Bullpups just aren't my thing though.
Any particular reason? Too short to be comfortable, maybe?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 03, 2017, 10:23:42 PM
Any particular reason? Too short to be comfortable, maybe?
That and the weight usually seems distributed too much towards the back. But I'm old school-- the M16A2 (or the A2 AR clone I put together) feels most natural.
I thought I was captain of the SKS fan club here. I don't have a bayonet or grenade launcher. :(
Quote from: derspiess on October 04, 2017, 08:46:56 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 03, 2017, 10:23:42 PM
Any particular reason? Too short to be comfortable, maybe?
That and the weight usually seems distributed too much towards the back. But I'm old school-- the M16A2 (or the A2 AR clone I put together) feels most natural.
I too prefer the feel of a Berthier M1916.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2017, 07:26:54 PM
I thought I was captain of the SKS fan club here. I don't have a bayonet or grenade launcher. :(
It's a poor's weapon. :yuk:
Quote from: 11B4V on October 04, 2017, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2017, 07:26:54 PM
I thought I was captain of the SKS fan club here. I don't have a bayonet or grenade launcher. :(
It's a poor's weapon. :yuk:
Only dropped once in 1989 in Romania.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2017, 07:37:08 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 04, 2017, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 04, 2017, 07:26:54 PM
I thought I was captain of the SKS fan club here. I don't have a bayonet or grenade launcher. :(
It's a poor's weapon. :yuk:
Only dropped once in 1989 in Romania.
Now if your talkin' SVT's, OK then.
Quote from: derspiess on October 04, 2017, 08:46:56 AM
That and the weight usually seems distributed too much towards the back. But I'm old school-- the M16A2 (or the A2 AR clone I put together) feels most natural.
Yeah, I just ended up getting an AR. It's just more..familiar. I suppose if I want the bullpup "experience" I could convert the SKS, but all the ones I've ever seen look like cheap shit, while my SKS is in pretty damn good shape. Meh. Maybe I'll get a Tavor some other time.
E: The one I got is the Springfield Saint. Weird name for a gun, but I liked the grip (it is more vertical and comfortable than the others I was eyeballing) and the sights it came with since I probably won't ever be bothering with any fancy optics or shit like that. Mid length vs carbine, too.
E2: Next thing I'm wanting is an Enfield 5 jungle carbine, and...the Saxet gun show is this weekend. I want me some 303 wandering zero awesomeness.
The Saint shoots pretty nice, even with the unadjusted iron sights. Was running cheapo steel .223 through it with 2" groupings at 50 and 100 yards. I get real squinty beyond about 10 though, so it was mostly luck, just pointing at areas on fuzzy white squares. A buddy of mine brought a 44 Mag lever gun and a 308 rifle of some sort that were pretty fun to shoot. SKS is the same as always. Hit paper = good. Pistols were fine.
A good day.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 07, 2017, 10:32:33 PM
The Saint shoots pretty nice, even with the unadjusted iron sights. Was running cheapo steel .223 through it with 2" groupings at 50 and 100 yards. I get real squinty beyond about 10 though, so it was mostly luck, just pointing at areas on fuzzy white squares. A buddy of mine brought a 44 Mag lever gun and a 308 rifle of some sort that were pretty fun to shoot. SKS is the same as always. Hit paper = good. Pistols were fine.
A good day.
Didn't even have to use your AK.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on October 07, 2017, 10:32:33 PM
The Saint shoots pretty nice, even with the unadjusted iron sights. Was running cheapo steel .223 through it with 2" groupings at 50 and 100 yards. I get real squinty beyond about 10 though, so it was mostly luck, just pointing at areas on fuzzy white squares. A buddy of mine brought a 44 Mag lever gun and a 308 rifle of some sort that were pretty fun to shoot. SKS is the same as always. Hit paper = good. Pistols were fine.
A good day.
Awesome. Country music festivals are safe again.
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 08, 2017, 10:36:50 AM
Didn't even have to use your AK.
:huh:
Quote from: CountDeMoneyAwesome. Country music festivals are safe again.
I guess?
He probably used his AK on the way home or something.
They try to keep me from running up
I never tell you to get down it's all about coming up
So what they do go and ban the AK?
My shit wasn't registered any fucking way
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 08, 2017, 10:36:50 AM
Didn't even have to use your AK.
Are AKs popular in AK?
Mostly for ed, but the rest of you will probably like it too :P
https://youtu.be/co4cHTy8pzM (https://youtu.be/co4cHTy8pzM)
Quote from: HVC on October 12, 2017, 08:10:05 PM
Mostly for ed, but the rest of you will probably like it too :P
https://youtu.be/co4cHTy8pzM (https://youtu.be/co4cHTy8pzM)
I soiled myself.
I preferred Before's eye candy.
Went to the doctor today and some old fuck walked in wearing a 1911 on the hip. He ignored the no weapons sign on the door and the gentle reminder by the receptionist but couldn't ignore the two cops that was called in to tell him to beat it.
Old angry fucker. I was hoping for some hot taser action. CLICK CLACK ZAAAAAAAAAP.
Here ya go, this video of a good shoot should make your day.
https://youtu.be/9Qatky1XuLQ
QuoteBaltimore police say Officer Kevin Amy, a 17-year veteran assigned to the Northeastern District patrol, drove up to that store at around 2:45 a.m. Monday morning to find a robbery in progress. There was no call for service; the officer was on his normal rounds and happened upon the scene, police said.
The suspect was armed with a sawed-off shotgun. Police spokesman T.J. Smith said the man entered the store and immediately confronted the clerk. He took $26. The suspect exited the store and engaged with the officer but did not fire any shots. His gun, in fact, was not loaded, Smith said.
Had many a coffee and cigarettes at that very 7-Eleven. Back in my day, we always avoided pulling right up on the door like that because of this very scenario, you want to see them before they see you; there was a parking lot on the side where we would pull into and park and walk over, but looks like there's a wall there now.
***Bonus*** Count the number of customers/passersby that simply don't give a shit about what's happening. :lol:
:lol:
Sent to my brother. :)
Did he hand the shopper his money at the 0:36 mark? :unsure:
Quote from: HVC on October 19, 2017, 08:37:20 PM
Did he hand the shopper his money at the 0:36 mark? :unsure:
Robin Fucking Hood, right? :lol:
Quote from: HVC on October 19, 2017, 08:37:20 PM
Did he hand the shopper his money at the 0:36 mark? :unsure:
He was very courteous to the other customer.
Seedy you're from the area, is that a common thing, don't steal from the community, but screw stores, or is he just an absent minded theif? I'm so confused. Thieves here would take the money... and probably the bag of goods :lol:
Quote from: HVC on October 19, 2017, 08:42:37 PM
Seedy you're from the area, is that a common thing, don't steal from the community, but screw stores, or is he just an absent minded theif? I'm so confused. Thieves here would take the money... and probably the bag of goods :lol:
Honestly? Probably just asked him for it.
Hey can I get my shit first and I be on my way plz thanx
Probably knew the customer anyway from the neighborhood. It's not like anybody drives to shit like that there.
I cannot believe the cop just shot him without even bothering to find out if the shotgun was even loaded.
Quote from: Berkut on October 20, 2017, 08:38:44 AM
I cannot believe the cop just shot him without even bothering to find out if the shotgun was even loaded.
Already had one of those "he didn't have to shoot him like that" conversations. It was a very short conversation.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 20, 2017, 02:51:15 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 20, 2017, 08:38:44 AM
I cannot believe the cop just shot him without even bothering to find out if the shotgun was even loaded.
Already had one of those "he didn't have to shoot him like that" conversations. It was a very short conversation.
:unsure: :ph34r:
Quote from: Berkut on October 20, 2017, 08:38:44 AM
I cannot believe the cop just shot him without even bothering to find out if the shotgun was even loaded.
The cop should have taken the shotgun, and then shot the robber with it. That way, if it wasn't loaded, no harm done.
Bought a rifle today. Ruger #1 in .405 Winchester. Comes with 5 boxes of ammo and loading dies.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/23467296_10214219506912821_2063888292224262885_o.jpg?oh=1a2c09bee085ab6ffcdeccfc7484c620&oe=5A99569F)
I am sure Wells Fargo appreciates your work on behalf of their stagecoaches.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 13, 2017, 07:18:52 PM
I am sure Wells Fargo appreciates your work on behalf of their stagecoaches.
:D
'Bout 20 years ago I owned a blued Ruger #1 in 45-70. The old Springfield Trapdoor rifles only allow loading to 24k psi. The Ruger #1 action allowed loading up to 55k psi. A 350 grain bullet at 1400 ft per second compared to 2200 ft per second respectively is like night and day. The recoil will shake your dental work loose :P
ok, stupid question - what is a loading die?
Quote from: 11B4V on November 13, 2017, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 13, 2017, 07:18:52 PM
I am sure Wells Fargo appreciates your work on behalf of their stagecoaches.
:D
'Bout 20 years ago I owned a blued Ruger #1 in 45-70. The old Springfield Trapdoor rifles only allow loading to 24k psi. The Ruger #1 action allowed loading up to 55k psi. A 350 grain bullet at 1400 ft per second compared to 2200 ft per second respectively is like night and day. The recoil will shake your dental work loose :P
(https://i.giphy.com/media/14bzdwPupwqhQk/giphy.webp)
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2017, 04:46:33 PM
ok, stupid question - what is a loading die?
Reloading dies are used for reloading ammunition. Bottleneck cases (i.e. 30-06) are normally 2 die sets, a sizer for the fired case and a bullet seating die to seat the bullet.
Rifle straight walled cases, (405 Winchester, 45-70, etc) and pistol cases come with 3 dies. The two above and a third that bells the case mouth.
https://www.midwayusa.com/reloading-dies/br?cid=702
Hope that helps.
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2017, 04:52:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 13, 2017, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 13, 2017, 07:18:52 PM
I am sure Wells Fargo appreciates your work on behalf of their stagecoaches.
:D
'Bout 20 years ago I owned a blued Ruger #1 in 45-70. The old Springfield Trapdoor rifles only allow loading to 24k psi. The Ruger #1 action allowed loading up to 55k psi. A 350 grain bullet at 1400 ft per second compared to 2200 ft per second respectively is like night and day. The recoil will shake your dental work loose :P
(https://i.giphy.com/media/14bzdwPupwqhQk/giphy.webp)
Ha, not that bad, but it will let you know it's there.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 14, 2017, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 14, 2017, 04:46:33 PM
ok, stupid question - what is a loading die?
Reloading dies are used for reloading ammunition. Bottleneck cases (i.e. 30-06) are normally 2 die sets, a sizer for the fired case and a bullet seating die to seat the bullet.
Rifle straight walled cases, (405 Winchester, 45-70, etc) and pistol cases come with 3 dies. The two above and a third that bells the case mouth.
https://www.midwayusa.com/reloading-dies/br?cid=702
Hope that helps.
thanks
:thumbsup:
Ready for the range
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23843370_10214295296807521_1904342834141497635_n.jpg?oh=71f47befc8c336adf3f3491f637f4e86&oe=5A95821D)
Quote from: 11B4V on November 24, 2017, 10:19:25 AM
:thumbsup:
Ready for the range Book Depository Building
I admit, it's a beautiful looking weapon, in terms of materials and design.
Gun nut.
He certainly has no problem displaying his basket of pelts right there in the living room.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 24, 2017, 11:20:36 AM
He certainly has no problem displaying his basket of pelts right there in the living room.
He has many toys
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12079110_10207500696066749_4433254560433364865_n.jpg?oh=65e9e3c862efee025b633527d65089e9&oe=5A98D5A5)
Some don't fare so well
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11822293_10207109120477604_962873106541282340_n.jpg?oh=a6f1eac008ddc046166273624b6a8248&oe=5A9706CE)
Throw down some Turf Builder ya bum. That looks like an immigrant lawn.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 24, 2017, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 24, 2017, 11:20:36 AM
He certainly has no problem displaying his basket of pelts right there in the living room.
He has many toys
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12079110_10207500696066749_4433254560433364865_n.jpg?oh=65e9e3c862efee025b633527d65089e9&oe=5A98D5A5)
Good looking dog - just the right amount of "I will be friendly if you are worthy" look about him :thumbsup:
Quote from: 11B4V on November 24, 2017, 10:19:25 AM
:thumbsup:
Ready for the range
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23843370_10214295296807521_1904342834141497635_n.jpg?oh=71f47befc8c336adf3f3491f637f4e86&oe=5A95821D)
Going speaker hunting?
Shooting the TV if it keeps pissing me off.
Quote from: 11B4V on November 24, 2017, 04:28:24 PM
Shooting the TV if it keeps pissing me off.
We did that once. At a friend's cabin.
He had an old TV set he wanted to get rid of; we put it on a rusty old hulk of a car he used for target practice. His girlfriend shot it with a 12 gage. It wasn't a very good idea, as jagged shards of glass sprayed out for a great distance in every direction. :lol:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2017, 01:49:25 PM
Throw down some Turf Builder ya bum. That looks like an immigrant lawn.
It looks like the part of the yard where the trampoline was finally moved from for the first time in two years.
Time for a paved over, concrete lawn.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 25, 2017, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2017, 01:49:25 PM
Throw down some Turf Builder ya bum. That looks like an immigrant lawn.
It looks like the part of the yard where the trampoline was finally moved from for the first time in two years.
Ha, I water the plants not the grass in the summertime. Trampolines are dangerous and a safety hazard.
Not quite a gun, but....
QuoteIllinois woman busted for torching her SUV with flamethrower
Published November 25, 2017
FoxNews.com
An Illinois woman was busted this week after cops say she torched her Infiniti SUV with a flamethrower she purchased online.
Julie Gagne, 47, of Barrington, was charged with arson, disorderly conduct, and filing a false police report, the Arlington Cardinal reported.
She reported her 2016 Infiniti QX70 stolen Nov. 10 after the fire.
"She was at a restaurant, and she called to say her car was missing when she came out of the restaurant," Schaumburg Deputy Police Chief Dan Roach told the paper.
Firefighters found the vehicle ablaze at the end of a dead end street in Barrington near a precious metal refinery.
Gagne later retracted the report that her 2016 Infiniti QX70 was stolen.
The paper reported that Gagne turned herself in to police Tuesday. She was released on a personal recognizance bond after a court appearance Wednesday.
Police haven't determined a motive, the paper reported.
Barrington Police Chief David Dorn told the Arlington Heights Daily Herald an X15 Flamethrower was found near the SUV after the fire was extinguished.
XMatter in Ohio manufactures the flamethrower, which is legal in Illinois, the paper reported.
An investigation determined Gagne bought the flamethrower online, Dorn told the paper.
The flamethrower in question uses a mix of about three gallons of fuel and napalm to throw flames as far as 50 feet, the paper reported.
The device goes for about about $1,600.
XMatter says controlled burns for agricultural purposes, weed incineration and pyrotechnic events are among the typical uses for the company's flamethrowers, the paper reported.
An XMatter executive did not return a message seeking comment, the paper reported.
I checked out their website. 20% off Black Friday sale on flamethrowers. :)
(note: the "Pyro" package is upwards of $1800...and a "napalm mix" is about $130-200 by itself :P )
Heh, my dad used to have a flamethrower like that for yard work, really good for underbrush when you've gotten the heavy stuff down, and you can't get with the machete. Looked like something between a weed whacker and a power washer. The one from the article looks like something you'd wear on your back storming the beach at Tarawa.
I like Basecop's dog. But that stare....
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-25-2016/rNVGPV.gif)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 25, 2017, 07:51:37 PM
Heh, my dad used to have a flamethrower like that for yard work, really good for underbrush when you've gotten the heavy stuff down, and you can't get with the machete. Looked like something between a weed whacker and a power washer. The one from the article looks like something you'd wear on your back storming the beach at Tarawa.
At least Maryland has them under control....
QuoteSorry, no shipping to Maryland. Maryland's fire code prohibits flamethrower ownership
:D
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 25, 2017, 09:21:40 PM
QuoteSorry, no shipping to Maryland. Maryland's fire code prohibits flamethrower ownership
:D
Fascists. :mad:
Seedy can't burn Japs out of their bunkers. :(
I lost my Windtalker in the Packaged Goods section.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 25, 2017, 08:02:22 PM
I like Basecop's dog. But that stare....
Just looks like an obedient dog to me. Speaking of obedient dogs, a few years ago my brother had Tim Krumrie watch his dog at his farm while my brother and his wife went on their honeymoon. Dog was awfully well behaved after they got him back.
Must've tried to hump the wrong leg.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 27, 2017, 05:52:02 PM
Must've tried to hump the wrong leg.
You mean the one he broke in the Super Bowl? :pinch:
Seedy, I'm in the mood for a six shooter. But I may wait until mid next year to pull the trigger.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/revolvers/smith-wesson-revolvers-model-29/smith-wesson-classics-revolver-model-29-10-in-44-magnum-4-inch-new-from-smith-wesson-.cfm?gun_id=100856007
With those loads, you can only get off one shot in the dark, so you better make it count.
Six shooters FTW
One of these days I need to get me a Colt SAA.
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 02, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
One of these days I need to get me a Colt SAA.
Take your pick
https://www.uberti-usa.com/1873-single-action-cattleman-revolvers
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2017, 08:37:36 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 02, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
One of these days I need to get me a Colt SAA.
Take your pick
https://www.uberti-usa.com/1873-single-action-cattleman-revolvers
Those aren't authentic Colts with the obligatory $1K markup. :mad:
Edit: Ugh, even worse...they're Italian. :yuk:
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 02, 2017, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2017, 08:37:36 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 02, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
One of these days I need to get me a Colt SAA.
Take your pick
https://www.uberti-usa.com/1873-single-action-cattleman-revolvers
Those aren't authentic Colts with the obligatory $1K markup. :mad:
Edit: Ugh, even worse...they're Italian. :yuk:
Uberti is very good.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2017, 06:27:03 PM
With those loads, you can only get off one shot in the dark, so you better make it count.
Besides you can shoot 44 Specials in a 44 Mag. I keep 38 Specials in speedloaders for the 357 for boogeyman that might enter the house.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2017, 10:59:57 PM
I keep 38 Specials in speedloaders for the 357 for boogeyman that might enter the house.
Fag.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2017, 11:56:27 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 02, 2017, 10:59:57 PM
I keep 38 Specials in speedloaders for the 357 for boogeyman that might enter the house.
Fag.
Women.. :rolleyes: The Mod 65 w/ 3" barrel bounces too much with the mags in it for her. :(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2017, 06:27:03 PM
With those loads, you can only get off one shot in the dark, so you better make it count.
Fuck it. Pulled the trigger and it's on the way.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24796831_10214384604120148_3827697095233282737_n.jpg?oh=3b496eb1962f11c45bf0028ee91d0bb4&oe=5A9AC914)
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 02, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
One of these days I need to get me a Colt SAA.
You want a cool pistol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kgu7OuSkD0
There you go. The blued double action is a gorgeous piece
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
Fuck it. Pulled the trigger and it's on the way.
With that discoloration on the cylinder, looks like it's seen some rounds.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2017, 10:30:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 04, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
Fuck it. Pulled the trigger and it's on the way.
With that discoloration on the cylinder, looks like it's seen some rounds.
NIB shipping from Cabelas in Minnesota
Stupid blued finish. :rolleyes:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2017, 10:44:17 PM
Stupid blued finish. :rolleyes:
Check out the vid I posted for Tonitrus. What a finely crafted revolver.
Someday
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/360325/safariland-comp-3-revolver-speedloader-dan-wesson-s-and-w-10-12-13-14-15-19-64-66-67-68-taurus-66-669-689-38-special-357-magnum
Seedy you ever use these. I've always used the HKS loaders.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 08, 2017, 08:45:33 PM
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/360325/safariland-comp-3-revolver-speedloader-dan-wesson-s-and-w-10-12-13-14-15-19-64-66-67-68-taurus-66-669-689-38-special-357-magnum
Seedy you ever use these. I've always used the HKS loaders.
Nope; HKS for me as well. I'm sure it's convenient, especially for competition or the range. But I'd rather stick with what I've trained with over the years.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2017, 09:38:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 08, 2017, 08:45:33 PM
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/360325/safariland-comp-3-revolver-speedloader-dan-wesson-s-and-w-10-12-13-14-15-19-64-66-67-68-taurus-66-669-689-38-special-357-magnum
Seedy you ever use these. I've always used the HKS loaders.
Nope; HKS for me as well. I'm sure it's convenient, especially for competition or the range. But I'd rather stick with what I've trained with over the years.
I was thinking the same. Ill order a couple to cart around with.
My kind of old school shit right here :lol:
Indiana State Police 1988 Training with a Speedloader (https://youtu.be/b2B48FmLkys)
Shows some interesting methods of reloading with one hand, never thought of the shoe method. But I was always taught to draw the speedloader first, and emptying the casings into the same hand before reloading. Never drop your casings until you've reloaded first.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2017, 10:00:45 PM
My kind of old school shit right here :lol:
Indiana State Police 1988 Training with a Speedloader (https://youtu.be/b2B48FmLkys)
Shows some interesting methods of reloading with one hand, never thought of the shoe method. But I was always taught to draw the speedloader first, and emptying the casings into the same hand before reloading. Never drop your casings until you've reloaded first.
Nice history there.
Picked up the .44 yesterday. Ah, nothing like a nice revolver to make your day.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smithandwessonforums.com%2Fforum%2Fattachments%2Fnew-members-introduction%2F238553d1512936902-washington-25073457_10214434270001764_6969408855316053321_o.jpg&hash=6244e43963e473bcc8b417e014522ea7501ed30b)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2017, 10:00:45 PM
My kind of old school shit right here :lol:
Indiana State Police 1988 Training with a Speedloader (https://youtu.be/b2B48FmLkys)
Love those 80s and 90s how to videos.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/26551
EMERGERD. I splooged.
That'll go swell with your cult compound.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2017, 10:00:45 PM
My kind of old school shit right here :lol:
Indiana State Police 1988 Training with a Speedloader (https://youtu.be/b2B48FmLkys)
Shows some interesting methods of reloading with one hand, never thought of the shoe method. But I was always taught to draw the speedloader first, and emptying the casings into the same hand before reloading. Never drop your casings until you've reloaded first.
Isn't the lesson to be learned there that there is a reason nobody uses revolvers anymore?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2017, 08:10:21 PM
That'll go swell with your cult compound.
I guess we can fill your spot with somebody else when the fall comes. So sad, too bad.
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2017, 08:14:34 PM
Isn't the lesson to be learned there that there is a reason nobody uses revolvers anymore?
Yeah, why fill a minority with only 6 rounds when you can do it with 17?
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2017, 08:14:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2017, 10:00:45 PM
My kind of old school shit right here :lol:
Indiana State Police 1988 Training with a Speedloader (https://youtu.be/b2B48FmLkys)
Shows some interesting methods of reloading with one hand, never thought of the shoe method. But I was always taught to draw the speedloader first, and emptying the casings into the same hand before reloading. Never drop your casings until you've reloaded first.
Isn't the lesson to be learned there that there is a reason nobody uses revolvers anymore?
Wash your mouth out mister.
Mass shooting in Kentucky school, 2 dead, 17 injured:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42797684 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42797684)
Teaching my son target shooting and gun safety.
The rifle is an old - very old - bolt-action Mossberg 22LR. My father, who is now 80, got it - used - for his 13th birthday. Shooting with iron sights only.
(https://i.imgur.com/KYHVTJ1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/heA2Itg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8PwktHS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hnr09Al.jpg)
Quote from: mongers on January 23, 2018, 09:13:22 PM
Mass shooting in Kentucky school, 2 dead, 17 injured:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42797684 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42797684)
That wasn't even a blip on the radar, was it.
So a new thing among anti-gunners is to take an AR-15 (hopefully one they own) and do an internet video of them "destroying" it. Fine by me if you want to destroy your own property. But in the two examples I've seen they are just cutting the barrel-- which technically (and in legal terms) means they are creating a short-barreled rifle but shortening the barrel to under 16 inches. Unless you already have the approval and tax stamp from the ATF in hand, this is a pretty serious violation of federal law. It's what they busted that Randy Weaver kook for. And who knows how they are disposing of the non-destroyed firearm.
We did some target shooting with a carbine fitted with a telescopic sight. Same distance as with the antique rifle, which has only iron sights.
Funny part was that the results were no better, despite the telescopic sight. The reason: it proved incredibly difficult to hold the damn carbine steady. Way easier to hold the rifle steady.
Quote from: Malthus on March 08, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
We did some target shooting with a carbine fitted with a telescopic sight. Same distance as with the antique rifle, which has only iron sights.
Funny part was that the results were no better, despite the telescopic sight. The reason: it proved incredibly difficult to hold the damn carbine steady. Way easier to hold the rifle steady.
Was that because the scope made it top-heavy? I assume you were shooting off-hand?
Quote from: derspiess on March 08, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 08, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
We did some target shooting with a carbine fitted with a telescopic sight. Same distance as with the antique rifle, which has only iron sights.
Funny part was that the results were no better, despite the telescopic sight. The reason: it proved incredibly difficult to hold the damn carbine steady. Way easier to hold the rifle steady.
Was that because the scope made it top-heavy? I assume you were shooting off-hand?
I'm not sure why it was so much more shaky. Perhaps the shorter barrel?
We shot as in the below picture - kneeling, with elbows resting on the bench for stability. Same as with the rifle.
We all found it really difficult to hold it steady. My son's a good shot though. Better than me! :D
(https://i.imgur.com/tpjTTsT.jpg)
Urge to buy 12,500 5.56 round barrel increasing....
Must resist urges.....
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 02, 2018, 07:14:51 PM
Urge to buy 12,500 5.56 round barrel increasing....
The zombie horde won't get your spam hoard.
Active shooter at YouTube headquarters
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2018, 03:49:16 PM
Active shooter at YouTube headquarters
Female shooter, apparently dead.
Chicks, man. Repeal the 19th amendment!
Remington filed for bankruptcy.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 03, 2018, 08:21:23 PM
Remington filed for bankruptcy.
I know that the gun companies over here are not exactly saints but that is still a bummer to hear. Remington has a long tradition.
Speaking of female shooters: https://nypost.com/2018/04/02/man-shot-in-head-on-facebook-live-as-friends-play-with-gun-in-car/. This is why you shouldn't be pointing guns and firing them at people you're not willing to shoot.
Damn. I hope that guy recovers.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 03, 2018, 08:21:23 PM
Remington filed for bankruptcy.
Their QC has been shit for years. They deserve it.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 03, 2018, 08:21:23 PM
Remington filed for bankruptcy.
The traditional home of Remington is near where I live. It is already in a mostly rural wasteland with crazy high meth usage. This will be the final deathknell for Herkimer County probably. It will be like a piece of coal country. The signs have been there for years with Remington. They were sold a few times and each time the home plant and qc went further down the drain. They started moving everything down South to cut back on costs and to utilize cheaper unskilled labor. The entire time that the new overlords were gutting the company's history, quality, and workforce they were trying to sell the narrative that everything was going to hell because of Obama and Cuomo. The people bought it and now they're paying for it. I'd really like to feel bad for them, but it is pretty difficult when you're faced with the idiocy of the local Right on a daily basis. <_<
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 02, 2018, 07:14:51 PM
Urge to buy 12,500 5.56 round barrel increasing....
Must resist urges.....
Is this a barrel containing 12,500 rounds, or a 5.56 barrel that will last 12,500 rounds? :unsure:
Quote from: katmai on April 03, 2018, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 03, 2018, 03:49:16 PM
Active shooter at YouTube headquarters
Female shooter, apparently dead.
Vegan female shooter. New combo.
And apparently Baha'i, to boot.
Poll shows that most Americans want stronger gun control. So much for our representatives following their constituents' wants/needs.
Politico Article (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/04/gun-control-polls-background-checks-firearms-498881)
QuoteSupport for stricter gun control laws remains high seven weeks after the mass shooting at a high school in South Florida, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.
The poll shows roughly two-thirds of voters, 66 percent, support stricter gun control laws in the U.S., while only 28 percent oppose strengthening the nation's gun laws. The remaining 6 percent of voters have no opinion.
Overall, support for stricter gun laws is greater than in 2016 and 2017 — including in the days immediately after the mass murder of 57 concertgoers in Las Vegas last October. But it is down slightly from a spike to 70 percent last month right after the shooting in Parkland, Florida.
The latest POLITICO/Morning Consult survey was conducted March 29-April 1 — after the nationwide March for Our Lives rallies, but before the most recent shooting, on Tuesday at YouTube's offices in San Bruno, California.
Do they want it enough to change their votes though? There's the rub.
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Poll shows that most Americans want stronger gun control. So much for our representatives following their constituents' wants/needs.
Politico Article (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/04/gun-control-polls-background-checks-firearms-498881)
QuoteSupport for stricter gun control laws remains high seven weeks after the mass shooting at a high school in South Florida, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.
The poll shows roughly two-thirds of voters, 66 percent, support stricter gun control laws in the U.S., while only 28 percent oppose strengthening the nation's gun laws. The remaining 6 percent of voters have no opinion.
Overall, support for stricter gun laws is greater than in 2016 and 2017 — including in the days immediately after the mass murder of 57 concertgoers in Las Vegas last October. But it is down slightly from a spike to 70 percent last month right after the shooting in Parkland, Florida.
The latest POLITICO/Morning Consult survey was conducted March 29-April 1 — after the nationwide March for Our Lives rallies, but before the most recent shooting, on Tuesday at YouTube's offices in San Bruno, California.
Not surprised it spiked-- the relentless news coverage, plus using the kids as unassailable political props was a pretty effective tactic. But given a little time it'll drop back down to close to its previous level. One reason we have a representative democracy and not a direct democracy is to buffer the whims of the populace.
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 02:42:51 PM
Not surprised it spiked-- the relentless news coverage, plus using the kids as unassailable political props was a pretty effective tactic. But given a little time it'll drop back down to close to its previous level. One reason we have a representative democracy and not a direct democracy is to buffer the whims of the populace.
I can say with all sincerity that the kids were the driving force in at least two situations that I'm aware of. In C-U, my old hometown, one of my daughter's friends was one of the organizers of the march there. And at one of the high schools here in Portland, the kids pushed out at least one adult who was trying to organize on their behalf.
It's pretty disingenuous to claim that these kids are being used rather than pushing for an agenda that they personally believe in.
EDIT: But apparently that's the GOP line.
Portland students 'brainwashed' against guns, Multnomah Co. Republicans say (http://www.kgw.com/article/news/politics/portland-students-brainwashed-against-guns-multnomah-co-republicans-say/283-534825378)
Considering how cowardly the Democrats have been about guns for the past 20 years this seems like more of a reaction to the lack of action by the current political system rather than tools being manipulated by it.
Quote from: frunk on April 04, 2018, 03:16:00 PM
Considering how cowardly the Democrats have been about guns for the past 20 years this seems like more of a reaction to the lack of action by the current political system rather than tools being manipulated by it.
That's my take on it, too. The kids are doing what the Democrats have been too scared to do, and shaming them in the process.
Watched some of her videos and-- man, this youtube shooter vegan chick was friggin' weird as hell. And that was one thick accent. How long had she been in this country?
Yeah, letting kids talk about not getting shot is a "prop".
Jesus, you are one fucked up individual.
"Please stop shooting us in schools!"
"ZOMG THEY ARE BEING USED!!!!"
Weren't you complaining about strawmen here recently?
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:42:28 PM
Weren't you complaining about strawmen here recently?
How is it a strawman to quote you? :unsure:
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 02:42:51 PM
Not surprised it spiked-- the relentless news coverage, plus using the kids as unassailable political props was a pretty effective tactic. But given a little time it'll drop back down to close to its previous level. One reason we have a representative democracy and not a direct democracy is to buffer the whims of the populace.
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 02:42:51 PM
plus using the kids as unassailable political props was a pretty effective tactic.
Unassailable? I mean there are other ways to counter an argument besides ad hominem attacks. I mean despite what your experience on Languish might suggest :P
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2018, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 02:42:51 PM
plus using the kids as unassailable political props was a pretty effective tactic.
Unassailable? I mean there are other ways to counter an argument besides ad hominem attacks. I mean despite what your experience on Languish might suggest :P
How is "unassailable" an ad hom attack? Or is there a joke here I'm missing out on.
He's suggesting the kids testimony is assailable.
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:55:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2018, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 02:42:51 PM
plus using the kids as unassailable political props was a pretty effective tactic.
Unassailable? I mean there are other ways to counter an argument besides ad hominem attacks. I mean despite what your experience on Languish might suggest :P
How is "unassailable" an ad hom attack? Or is there a joke here I'm missing out on.
I presumed you meant the kids were unassailable. :unsure: You called them 'unassailable political props' yes? Unless you were making a joke I don't get what you are talking about.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 04, 2018, 03:59:39 PM
He's suggesting the kids testimony is assailable.
That is not what he said though :hmm:
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2018, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 04, 2018, 03:59:39 PM
He's suggesting the kids testimony is assailable.
That is not what he said though :hmm:
He is you. :lol:
Quote from: merithyn on April 04, 2018, 02:52:37 PM
It's pretty disingenuous to claim that these kids are being used rather than pushing for an agenda that they personally believe in.
It's not mutually exclusive that they sincerely believe what they're saying and that they're being used.
Quote from: dps on April 04, 2018, 04:37:22 PM
It's not mutually exclusive that they sincerely believe what they're saying and that they're being used.
There's no question that there will be people within and without the movement that are going to try and manipulate it, but that's very different from saying that it started as a prop.
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 02, 2018, 07:14:51 PM
Urge to buy 12,500 5.56 round barrel increasing....
Must resist urges.....
Is this a barrel containing 12,500 rounds, or a 5.56 barrel that will last 12,500 rounds? :unsure:
12,500 rounds. Around 40 cents a round. Federal brand green tip ammo. And therefore useless at indoor ranges.
You can get a better deal in smaller quantities. Comes on stripper clips and in ammo cans :)
http://palmettostatearmory.com/lake-city-5-56-nato-62-grain-xm855-fmj-on-10-round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-420rds.html
Also, AIM has XM193 for 29 cents a round. Sure, it's Serb-produced, but Prvi Partizan makes good stuff.
There is something about ammunition that just annoys me.
The idea that every time I pull the trigger I am shooting $.29 into a pile of sand is just....expensive.
Unless you're shooting steel targets. That "ping" is well worth the price :D
One ping only. :(
Republicans throw the word "manipulate" at everything the left is doing while ignoring mentioning who is doing the manipulating also being disingenuous about all the manipulating they are being subjected too by the Pro-Gun lobby.
The Kids are not being used by the left, the kids are using the left.
The kids are leading the left.
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 05, 2018, 09:16:51 AM
Republicans throw the word "manipulate" at everything the left is doing while ignoring mentioning who is doing the manipulating also being disingenuous about all the manipulating they are being subjected too by the Pro-Gun lobby.
The Kids are not being used by the left, the kids are using the left.
I'm a Republican and also an NRA member. Am I: manipulating myself? :P
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 09:48:25 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 05, 2018, 09:16:51 AM
Republicans throw the word "manipulate" at everything the left is doing while ignoring mentioning who is doing the manipulating also being disingenuous about all the manipulating they are being subjected too by the Pro-Gun lobby.
The Kids are not being used by the left, the kids are using the left.
I'm a Republican and also an NRA member. Am I: manipulating myself? :P
Ewww
I agree. Languish is too open about talking about private bodily functions.
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Watched some of her videos and-- man, this youtube shooter vegan chick was friggin' weird as hell. And that was one thick accent. How long had she been in this country?
As far as obnoxious trolls go, that was one of your finest.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 09:48:25 AM
I'm a Republican and also an NRA member. Am I: manipulating myself? :P
Honest question: Are you comfortable with the way that the NRA is heading/leading things?
I have a friend who was a Republican until recently - for somewhat obvious reasons - and is a lifelong member of the NRA from years back. He's said that he's really angry at the direction the NRA is going, and that he knows plenty of others who are, too. But their votes are ignored or not enough to challenge the NRA President's goals.
Just wondering what your perspective is on this, derspiess.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2018, 11:05:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Watched some of her videos and-- man, this youtube shooter vegan chick was friggin' weird as hell. And that was one thick accent. How long had she been in this country?
As far as obnoxious trolls go, that was one of your finest.
Go on.
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 09:48:25 AM
I'm a Republican and also an NRA member. Am I: manipulating myself? :P
Honest question: Are you comfortable with the way that the NRA is heading/leading things?
I have a friend who was a Republican until recently - for somewhat obvious reasons - and is a lifelong member of the NRA from years back. He's said that he's really angry at the direction the NRA is going, and that he knows plenty of others who are, too. But their votes are ignored or not enough to challenge the NRA President's goals.
Just wondering what your perspective is on this, derspiess.
Generally, yes.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2018, 11:05:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Watched some of her videos and-- man, this youtube shooter vegan chick was friggin' weird as hell. And that was one thick accent. How long had she been in this country?
As far as obnoxious trolls go, that was one of your finest.
Go on.
Fishing for more compliments?
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 10:53:28 PM
You can get a better deal in smaller quantities. Comes on stripper clips and in ammo cans :)
http://palmettostatearmory.com/lake-city-5-56-nato-62-grain-xm855-fmj-on-10-round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-420rds.html
Also, AIM has XM193 for 29 cents a round. Sure, it's Serb-produced, but Prvi Partizan makes good stuff.
BUT BUT BUT....does it come in a barrel to own the libs?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2018, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2018, 11:05:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Watched some of her videos and-- man, this youtube shooter vegan chick was friggin' weird as hell. And that was one thick accent. How long had she been in this country?
As far as obnoxious trolls go, that was one of your finest.
Go on.
Fishing for more compliments?
Just asking for an explanation. What was trollish about my post. The chick was genuinely weird, and had a very thick accent.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 05, 2018, 06:47:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 10:53:28 PM
You can get a better deal in smaller quantities. Comes on stripper clips and in ammo cans :)
http://palmettostatearmory.com/lake-city-5-56-nato-62-grain-xm855-fmj-on-10-round-clips-in-ammo-can-of-420rds.html
Also, AIM has XM193 for 29 cents a round. Sure, it's Serb-produced, but Prvi Partizan makes good stuff.
BUT BUT BUT....does it come in a barrel to own the libs?
No :weep:
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2018, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2018, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2018, 11:05:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
Watched some of her videos and-- man, this youtube shooter vegan chick was friggin' weird as hell. And that was one thick accent. How long had she been in this country?
As far as obnoxious trolls go, that was one of your finest.
Go on.
Fishing for more compliments?
Just asking for an explanation. What was trollish about my post. The chick was genuinely weird, and had a very thick accent.
I am not going to engage with stupid.
Okay, cc is no help. Can anyone help me understand what was so trollish about my post?
Clearly, one of cc's more effective trolls.
I guess.
Quote from: derspiess on April 06, 2018, 02:59:05 PM
Okay, cc is no help. Can anyone help me understand what was so trollish about my post?
It seemed like you were putting on your "I am going to act like the stereotypical redneck douchebag asshole" mask with the comments about her ethnicity and the "she isn't a real American" implication, which of course you will then pretend to deny.
Took my AR-15 to the he range today and burned off 6 magazines worth of ammo. I was going to do more but my right booger hook finger is fucked up. :(
At least my aim was passable today. :)
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 07, 2018, 07:07:53 PM
Took my AR-15 to the he range today and burned off 6 magazines worth of ammo. I was going to do more but my right booger hook finger is fucked up. :(
At least my aim was passable today. :)
Saturday was a beautiful day for the range-- once the snow all melted anyway. I happened to stop by my brother's beforehand and notice a 24-pack of Keystone in his garage. They got it for their Christmas party but thankfully nobody drank that pisswater. So each can became targets for the plinking range. They blow up real good when you shake them up first. We're not supposed to have open containers of alcohol on the range during daylight hours, but hopefully this was an exception to the rules.
Quote from: Berkut on April 07, 2018, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 06, 2018, 02:59:05 PM
Okay, cc is no help. Can anyone help me understand what was so trollish about my post?
It seemed like you were putting on your "I am going to act like the stereotypical redneck douchebag asshole" mask with the comments about her ethnicity and the "she isn't a real American" implication, which of course you will then pretend to deny.
Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. We'll never know if that was cc's objection but I suppose that'll do. I mean, it's well-known that I am repulsed by foreign women with accents :lol:
Your assumption that only native born Americans can go postal was deeply bigoted.
Quote from: derspiess on April 09, 2018, 08:06:11 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 07, 2018, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 06, 2018, 02:59:05 PM
Okay, cc is no help. Can anyone help me understand what was so trollish about my post?
It seemed like you were putting on your "I am going to act like the stereotypical redneck douchebag asshole" mask with the comments about her ethnicity and the "she isn't a real American" implication, which of course you will then pretend to deny.
Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. We'll never know if that was cc's objection but I suppose that'll do. I mean, it's well-known that I am repulsed by foreign women with accents :lol:
Monster. :mad:
https://apnews.com/2310f74c09ba41fba7941f688b9b7307
QuoteNRA, others sue Seattle over gun-storage law
SEATTLE (AP) — The National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation and two Seattle residents are suing the city over its new gun-safety law.
The lawsuit filed Friday in King County Superior Court says that the safe storage requirement violates Washington state law, which prevents cities from regulating guns, the Seattle Times reported.
"Seattle simply can't break the law to adopt an ordinance as a political statement," Bellevue, Washington-based Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb said in a statement.
Earlier this month, the Seattle City Council unanimously passed the legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan to require gun owners to lock up their firearms.
Durkan signed the legislation Wednesday, with the law set to take effect in January.
The law says a gun owner could be fined up to $500 if a firearm isn't locked up, up to $1,000 if a minor, "at-risk person" or unauthorized user accesses the weapon and up to $10,000 if someone uses the weapon to injure someone or commit a crime.
The lawsuit was expected by pro gun-control groups including the nonprofit Everytown for Gun Safety and the law firm Orrick LLP, whose officials said previously they would represent Seattle at no charge.
"Frankly, this is no surprise," City Attorney Pete Holmes said in a statement. "The Mayor and Council are trying to prevent children from accessing guns with this Safe Storage legislation. If the NRA and SAF want to be on record fighting responsible gun ownership, that's their choice."
Seattle residents Omar Abdul Alim and Michael Thyng are plaintiffs in the case and cite a fear of home invasions for keeping their firearms unlocked.
In 2010, Seattle introduced a ban on firearms in city parks. The NRA and Second Amendment Foundation sued the city, and the law was ultimately ruled unconstitutional.
Last year, however, the Washington state Supreme Court ruled in favor of Seattle's tax on guns. The ordinance imposed a tax of $25 per firearm and 2 or 5 cents per round of ammunition. It raised $93,000 last year.
Durkan said on Twitter Friday that in addition to the city, the lawsuit names Durkan and recently-chosen Police Chief Carmen Best as defendants.
"If they think we are intimidated, they are mistaken," Durkan said. "I will continue to fight for our kids."
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
I do not know the details of the Washington Law that prevents gun regulation.
But I do not really understand how this statute would be enforced. I guess in the event that the police are in somebody's home for some other reason they could ticket them for unlocked firearm storage? I mean you couldn't get a warrant to investigate based on nothing more than a suspicion somebody broke a city ordinance.
Austria has such a requirement, but all legal gun owners are registered, so as far as I understand it's a system of random spot checks. Austria has ca. 30 guns per 100 people.
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
It has nothing to do with the US constitution. Washington has a preemption law that prohibits localities from enacting any restrictions greater than the those at the state level:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
Ok having read that I think this is probably a test case to push a little further since they got away with the gun and bullet tax. Similar to what the states do when trying to regulate abortion.
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2018, 02:22:13 PM
I do not know the details of the Washington Law that prevents gun regulation.
But I do not really understand how this statute would be enforced. I guess in the event that the police are in somebody's home for some other reason they could ticket them for unlocked firearm storage? I mean you couldn't get a warrant to investigate based on nothing more than a suspicion somebody broke a city ordinance.
After the fact, like if your five year old takes the Python to show and tell.
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2018, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
It has nothing to do with the US constitution. Washington has a preemption law that prohibits localities from enacting any restrictions greater than the those at the state level:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about Washington state. I thought states had constitutions, but the 2010 ban on firearms in city parks was actually found to be in violation of the US constitution?
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2018, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
It has nothing to do with the US constitution. Washington has a preemption law that prohibits localities from enacting any restrictions greater than the those at the state level:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about Washington state. I thought states had constitutions, but the 2010 ban on firearms in city parks was actually found to be in violation of the US constitution?
Yes, states all have their own constitutions, but nothing in a state constitution or state statutes can violate provisions of the US Constitution. So a local ordinance in a city in Washington might be void because it violates something in the US Constitution (as apparently the park ordinance was) or be void because it violates the state constitution. In this case, though, it seems that the ordinance is in conflict with a state law--at least that's apparently what the lawsuit claims--not with either the state or US Constitution.
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2018, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
It has nothing to do with the US constitution. Washington has a preemption law that prohibits localities from enacting any restrictions greater than the those at the state level:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about Washington state. I thought states had constitutions, but the 2010 ban on firearms in city parks was actually found to be in violation of the US constitution?
Yes, states all have their own constitutions, but nothing in a state constitution or state statutes can violate provisions of the US Constitution. So a local ordinance in a city in Washington might be void because it violates something in the US Constitution (as apparently the park ordinance was) or be void because it violates the state constitution. In this case, though, it seems that the ordinance is in conflict with a state law--at least that's apparently what the lawsuit claims--not with either the state or US Constitution.
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
I had to google the 2010 park ban because it seemed odd to me that it would be a US constitution issue, and it seems it was a violation of state law and not unconstitutional (state or US), so AFAICT confusion stems from the article quoted earlier in the thread wrongly using the term "unconstitutional".
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
That does not make much sense to me. No where in the Constitution does it say a state or local government cannot regulate the storage of fire arms not in use. Is that interstate commerce? :P
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2018, 10:00:51 PM
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
That does not make much sense to me. No where in the Constitution does it say a state or local government cannot regulate the storage of fire arms not in use. Is that interstate commerce? :P
I didn't say that I thought it would be a winning argument.
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2018, 10:00:51 PM
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
That does not make much sense to me. No where in the Constitution does it say a state or local government cannot regulate the storage of fire arms not in use. Is that interstate commerce? :P
I didn't say that I thought it would be a winning argument.
I thought that'd be the Equal Protection angle...not interstate commerce.
That was a joke not an actual legal opinion :P
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 08:13:00 PM
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2018, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
It has nothing to do with the US constitution. Washington has a preemption law that prohibits localities from enacting any restrictions greater than the those at the state level:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about Washington state. I thought states had constitutions, but the 2010 ban on firearms in city parks was actually found to be in violation of the US constitution?
Yes, states all have their own constitutions, but nothing in a state constitution or state statutes can violate provisions of the US Constitution. So a local ordinance in a city in Washington might be void because it violates something in the US Constitution (as apparently the park ordinance was) or be void because it violates the state constitution. In this case, though, it seems that the ordinance is in conflict with a state law--at least that's apparently what the lawsuit claims--not with either the state or US Constitution.
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
I had to google the 2010 park ban because it seemed odd to me that it would be a US constitution issue, and it seems it was a violation of state law and not unconstitutional (state or US), so AFAICT confusion stems from the article quoted earlier in the thread wrongly using the term "unconstitutional".
States have their own constitutions.
Quote from: garbon on July 24, 2018, 01:39:28 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 08:13:00 PM
Quote from: dps on July 23, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2018, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 23, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Surely the argument against the lawsuit is that the law isn't in fact unconstitutional (if it isn't), not that it's sensible/whatever? A bit chilling with people in office who wipe their asses with the constitution.
It has nothing to do with the US constitution. Washington has a preemption law that prohibits localities from enacting any restrictions greater than the those at the state level:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about Washington state. I thought states had constitutions, but the 2010 ban on firearms in city parks was actually found to be in violation of the US constitution?
Yes, states all have their own constitutions, but nothing in a state constitution or state statutes can violate provisions of the US Constitution. So a local ordinance in a city in Washington might be void because it violates something in the US Constitution (as apparently the park ordinance was) or be void because it violates the state constitution. In this case, though, it seems that the ordinance is in conflict with a state law--at least that's apparently what the lawsuit claims--not with either the state or US Constitution.
However, if the lawsuit fails, I would expect it to be re-filed in federal court on 2nd Amemdment grounds.
I had to google the 2010 park ban because it seemed odd to me that it would be a US constitution issue, and it seems it was a violation of state law and not unconstitutional (state or US), so AFAICT confusion stems from the article quoted earlier in the thread wrongly using the term "unconstitutional".
States have their own constitutions.
Thank you for contributing.
:)
But as dps explained that isn't using the term wrong then. It can be unconstitutional in Washington because of that's state's constitution but simultaneously not unconstitutional with regards to the US wide one.
Quote from: garbon on July 24, 2018, 02:58:22 AM
:)
But as dps explained that isn't using the term wrong then. It can be unconstitutional in Washington because of that's state's constitution but simultaneously not unconstitutional with regards to the US wide one.
You have to be fucking with me. Did you even read the conversation you responded to?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45027237
QuoteUS release of 3D-printed gun software blocked
A US federal judge in Seattle has blocked the release of software that allows consumers to 3D-print firearms.
Gun access advocacy group Defense Distributed published downloadable gun blueprints five days early on Friday.
The firm had reached a settlement with the Trump administration in June to allow it to legally publish the plans.
But eight states and the District of Columbia sued the government on Monday to block the settlement, arguing the untraceable guns were a safety risk.
US District Judge Robert Lasnik issued a temporary restraining order halting the release hours before the 1 August deadline, saying the blueprints could fall into the wrong hands.
"There are 3D printers in public colleges and public spaces and there is the likelihood of potential irreparable harm," he said.
Judge Lasnik scheduled another hearing for 10 August.
Although Defense Distributed had been expected to publish the blueprints on Wednesday, it uploaded files for nine types of gun to its website last week. Between Friday and Sunday, more than 1,000 people downloaded the files for building an AR-15 rifle - the same gun used in many of America's mass shootings.
Which states are fighting the release?
The lawsuit against the Trump administration was filed in Seattle, Washington, by the state's Attorney General Bob Ferguson.
New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Maryland in addition to the District of Columbia are involved.
The complaint calls the 1 Aug release of gun blueprints "a bell that cannot be un-rung".
"The Government has made no determination regarding the national security implications of the agreement, or its effects on sovereign US states' ability to protect the safety of those within their borders."
In addition, 20 state attorneys general have written to the State Department and Department of Justice about blocking the gun blueprints online.
What's been the reaction?
Speaking outside the court, Washington attorney general Bob Ferguson called the judge's decision a "complete, total victory".
"Everything we asked for we got from Judge Lasnik," he said, and called on President Trump to make it "unlawful for anyone to make this information available for anyone".
The president had tweeted on Tuesday before the ruling that selling 3D guns to the public "doesn't seem to make much sense" after settling with Defense Distributed in June.
But the group's founder Cody Wilson told the BBC the 3D gun was not a threat to public safety.
"I haven't watched any crimes be committed with it," he said.
"As far as I know only one person's ever been arrested because of this gun and it was gentleman in Japan who was curious about making it."
How was the printable gun developed?
The arguments began in 2013 when Mr Wilson, a self-styled crypto-anarchist, showed off the world's first 3D-printed gun.
Files showing how to replicate the process were immediately made available on the Defense Distributed website and downloaded hundreds of thousands of times.
It led the US State Department to order them to be removed from the internet.
There followed a four-year legal battle, with Defense Distributed joining forces with the Second Amendment Foundation - which defends the right to own guns - to sue the State Department.
Last month, in a surprise move, it won its case, with the US Justice Department ruling that Americans may "access, discuss, use and reproduce" the technical data.
Mr Wilson hailed his victory as the beginning of "the age of the downloadable gun".
But critics are concerned it will see a massive rise in so-called ghost guns, unregistered weapons the government is unaware of and is unable to trace.
Since the legal action began, Defense Distributed has been working on new gun designs and has also created a milling device - known as Ghost Gunner - that can turn parts purchased online into a fully working weapon.
Seeing some Facebook feed via some of you American people, I was fairly shocked to see that this 3D gun is also defended by the "OMG you take our guns you take our liberty" crowd.
WTF is the logical reason to having this one-shot thing apart from trying to sneak it in somewhere where you can commit a crime? Surely it is totally useless for self defense especially when you can legally carry far better weaponry.
It's mental.
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 07:57:00 AM
Seeing some Facebook feed via some of you American people, I was fairly shocked to see that this 3D gun is also defended by the "OMG you take our guns you take our liberty" crowd.
WTF is the logical reason to having this one-shot thing apart from trying to sneak it in somewhere where you can commit a crime? Surely it is totally useless for self defense especially when you can legally carry far better weaponry.
It's mental.
Only in
America. basements and single bedrooms across the world.
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 07:57:00 AM
Seeing some Facebook feed via some of you American people, I was fairly shocked to see that this 3D gun is also defended by the "OMG you take our guns you take our liberty" crowd.
WTF is the logical reason to having this one-shot thing apart from trying to sneak it in somewhere where you can commit a crime? Surely it is totally useless for self defense especially when you can legally carry far better weaponry.
It's mental.
A need to be ideologically consistent I think. And a suspicion that any action by a government agent is an attempt to set up a police state.
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 07:57:00 AM
Seeing some Facebook feed via some of you American people, I was fairly shocked to see that this 3D gun is also defended by the "OMG you take our guns you take our liberty" crowd.
WTF is the logical reason to having this one-shot thing apart from trying to sneak it in somewhere where you can commit a crime? Surely it is totally useless for self defense especially when you can legally carry far better weaponry.
It's mental.
I don't really get worked up about it. To me it's more of a free speech issue than a gun issue. Besides, there are easy, legal ways to manufacture a much better firearm receiver at home if you invest in some equipment and buy the rest of the parts.
Quote from: derspiess on August 01, 2018, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 07:57:00 AM
Seeing some Facebook feed via some of you American people, I was fairly shocked to see that this 3D gun is also defended by the "OMG you take our guns you take our liberty" crowd.
WTF is the logical reason to having this one-shot thing apart from trying to sneak it in somewhere where you can commit a crime? Surely it is totally useless for self defense especially when you can legally carry far better weaponry.
It's mental.
I don't really get worked up about it. To me it's more of a free speech issue than a gun issue. Besides, there are easy, legal ways to manufacture a much better firearm receiver at home if you invest in some equipment and buy the rest of the parts.
Ok wait what is also equivalent to free speech now?
And Tamas already said that part. He was talking about bypassing security and printing a fire arm inside someplace. Manufacturing a gun at home I presume takes some time and skill and money that 3D printing one would not.
I mean that might be a problem...I don't know. 3D printing is a pretty big thing so it is hard to say how it might change society and what implications that might have.
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 07:57:00 AM
Seeing some Facebook feed via some of you American people, I was fairly shocked to see that this 3D gun is also defended by the "OMG you take our guns you take our liberty" crowd.
WTF is the logical reason to having this one-shot thing apart from trying to sneak it in somewhere where you can commit a crime? Surely it is totally useless for self defense especially when you can legally carry far better weaponry.
It's mental.
I think at some point people got their logic inverted. The "what sounds like a bad idea may actually be a good idea" turned into "if it sounds like a bad idea, it must be a good idea".
Quote from: Valmy on August 01, 2018, 09:43:51 AM
Manufacturing a gun at home I presume takes some time and skill and money that 3D printing one would not.
Maybe a little more money, not really much more skill unless you're a complete waste of space. You can buy individual parts on the internet and just put them together (with some minor Dremel tool/drill/whatever work). Here's a Glock 17:
http://reason.com/archives/2018/05/31/how-to-legally-make-your-own-o
This is also much more reliable than trying to 3D print a gun using the bullshit printer you got for $200 from Office Depot or something (don't do that you'll lose a hand/your face).
Yeah but you need to get the parts manufactured and a few tools to assemble.
And it may be more reliable now but that might change in the future.
Quote from: Valmy on August 01, 2018, 11:01:57 AM
Yeah but you need to get the parts manufactured and a few tools to assemble.
And it may be more reliable now but that might change in the future.
No, you literally just buy the parts then dremel out some holes for the trigger, etc, using the jigs that tend to come with the 80% lower. Ebay has most of that stuff.
Quote from: derspiess on August 01, 2018, 09:37:38 AM
To me it's more of a free speech issue than a gun issue.
A CAD file is speech?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 01, 2018, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 01, 2018, 09:37:38 AM
To me it's more of a free speech issue than a gun issue.
A CAD file is speech?
If dollar bills are free speech, then I guess anything can be. :P
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 01, 2018, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 01, 2018, 11:01:57 AM
Yeah but you need to get the parts manufactured and a few tools to assemble.
And it may be more reliable now but that might change in the future.
No, you literally just buy the parts then dremel out some holes for the trigger, etc, using the jigs that tend to come with the 80% lower. Ebay has most of that stuff.
I got it MBM :P
My main point I guess is that it seems superficially easy to legally get a gun that FAR outperforms the 3D one.
There's literally no reason whatsoever to get and carry one IF you are entitled to legally own and carry a weapon.
So, there can be only two reasons to ever have a 3D-printed gun:
1. you are a criminal/insane/etc and thus cannot buy a gun legally
2. you need to get it past a metal detector to do something illegal
As such, making this 3D-printed gun legal makes no fucking sense, and if you support the unregulated sell of its blueprints and the carrying of it, while opposing things like legalising light drugs and such, then you are a tribal moron.
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 11:25:06 AM
As such, making this 3D-printed gun legal makes no fucking sense, and if you support the unregulated sell of its blueprints and the carrying of it, while opposing things like legalising light drugs and such, then you are a tribal moron.
Outside of the US you are absolutely correct. Inside the US we have the second amendment whose limits are...um....unknown. So you might support it out of fanaticism for Constitutional purity above any worldly thing like what sort of policy makes the best practical sense for the public. In that context you can support this while opposing other things like buying booze on Sunday, because the Constitution does not guarantee a right to drinking on any particular day of the week.
Yeah I don't really know why any normal person, or even a criminal, would bother aside from the novelty of it (or OMG MY RIGHTS) until you start getting in to using metal and such, which....you still might as well just buy one from a gun store or buy the parts and put it together if you want to have custom shit in it/can't buy one the legal way.
Even the whole undetectable thing doesn't really work, since at the very least the bullets are going to be detectable. I guess you could be like the dude in that one movie and put them in your lucky rabbit's foot keychain thing, and be a professional assassin who doesn't miss in the 1 or 2 shots you have.
Then again, just because we can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't one or that it should just be automatically illegal either.
Quote from: Valmy on August 01, 2018, 11:33:44 AM
the Constitution does not guarantee a right to drinking on any particular day of the week.
We need an amendment.
Quote from: Tamas on August 01, 2018, 11:25:06 AM
My main point I guess is that it seems superficially easy to legally get a gun that FAR outperforms the 3D one.
There's literally no reason whatsoever to get and carry one IF you are entitled to legally own and carry a weapon.
So, there can be only two reasons to ever have a 3D-printed gun:
1. you are a criminal/insane/etc and thus cannot buy a gun legally
2. you need to get it past a metal detector to do something illegal
As such, making this 3D-printed gun legal makes no fucking sense, and if you support the unregulated sell of its blueprints and the carrying of it, while opposing things like legalising light drugs and such, then you are a tribal moron.
No, the 2 reasons are:
1) Wanting to get it past metal detectors, and
2) The novelty value.
Criminals have plenty of ways to get real firearms. They wouldn't bother with this.
Ok see 3D printing technology will get better and eventually they might be as good as real firearms. So they might bother in the future.
Just like once guns were inferior to longbows.
So let's not make any permanent legal precedents based on that assumption. Not that anybody here is a judge or something :P
Quote from: Valmy on August 01, 2018, 02:41:53 PM
Ok see 3D printing technology will get better and eventually they might be as good as real firearms. So they might bother in the future.
Just like once guns were inferior to longbows.
So let's not make any permanent legal precedents based on that assumption. Not that anybody here is a judge or something :P
No argument from me.
Quote from: dps on August 01, 2018, 02:13:05 PM
Criminals have plenty of ways to get real firearms. They wouldn't bother with this.
Everyone knows that as soon as you commit a felony you gain instant access to a vast black market arsenal.
No felony required, though purchasing one may be.
'Bout time
https://m.facebook.com/LiberalGunClub/
Quote from: 11B4V on August 25, 2018, 12:37:30 AM
'Bout time
https://m.facebook.com/LiberalGunClub/
I've seen a few leftwing pro-gun rights groups pop up, seemingly from the #resist thing.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2018, 09:10:04 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 25, 2018, 12:37:30 AM
'Bout time
https://m.facebook.com/LiberalGunClub/
I've seen a few leftwing pro-gun rights groups pop up, seemingly from the #resist thing.
It is not so fun when the gun clubs start talking about shooting your people instead of mine eh?
Anyway it would be nice if people kept guns for sports and home defense instead of the coming bloody revolution. That would be great.
Besides if we need guns for the coming bloody revolution we can just loot the nearest arsenal in the traditional revolutionary way. And by arsenal I mean a Walmart.
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:13:57 AM
It is not so fun when the gun clubs start talking about shooting your people instead of mine eh?
:huh: I haven't heard them talk about shooting "my people". To the extent that these folks are supporting the second amendment, and arming themselves for defense, I have zero problem with them.
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:13:57 AM
It is not so fun when the gun clubs start talking about shooting your people instead of mine eh?
:huh: I haven't heard them talk about shooting "my people". To the extent that these folks are supporting the second amendment, and arming themselves for defense, I have zero problem with them.
I mean #resist is not directed at criminals Spicey :P
But hey I was mostly joking. Mostly.
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:13:57 AM
It is not so fun when the gun clubs start talking about shooting your people instead of mine eh?
:huh: I haven't heard them talk about shooting "my people". To the extent that these folks are supporting the second amendment, and arming themselves for defense, I have zero problem with them.
I mean #resist is not directed at criminals Spicey :P
But hey I was mostly joking. Mostly.
They aren't. :lol:
Quote from: 11B4V on August 27, 2018, 01:41:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:13:57 AM
It is not so fun when the gun clubs start talking about shooting your people instead of mine eh?
:huh: I haven't heard them talk about shooting "my people". To the extent that these folks are supporting the second amendment, and arming themselves for defense, I have zero problem with them.
I mean #resist is not directed at criminals Spicey :P
But hey I was mostly joking. Mostly.
They aren't. :lol:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-15/redneck-revolt-and-the-hard-lefts-call-to-arms/9303758 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-15/redneck-revolt-and-the-hard-lefts-call-to-arms/9303758)
They're gunning for Trump. ;)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2Fimage%2F9303766-3x2-940x627.jpg&hash=26860e7f64ac8696b5c034e00a110e0004f82578)
Phoenix, Arizona branch of Redneck Revolt:
(https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/BlackBlocGun3.jpg)
Quote from: derspiess on August 27, 2018, 09:10:04 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 25, 2018, 12:37:30 AM
'Bout time
https://m.facebook.com/LiberalGunClub/
I've seen a few leftwing pro-gun rights groups pop up, seemingly from the #resist thing.
Yeah, like the John Brown gun club - they've been around for a while I believe, but seem to have popped on the radar a bit more recently.
ARE YOU A MEMBER OF THE JOHN BROWN CLUB??
kidding :P :hug:
A city of nearly 5 million and they got 13 people to their meeting...
One of those guys is armed with a bat...
Quote from: Razgovory on August 27, 2018, 10:01:31 PM
One of those guys is armed with a bat...
When you're militant but still kinda anti-gun.
The BBC Archives posted this a few days ago - the premiere broadcasting of Collector's World featuring the firing of old guns.
The BBC's official advice:
1) Never fire an antique gun without expert advice.
2) Don't mess with this guy.
https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/1034412124766908422
I shot a couple watermelons and expired cans of beer yesterday. Smelled like a picnic when I was done.
Dunno if I posted this before, but here's a pic I took of a person firing a small mortar
(https://i.imgur.com/HYGNW1r.jpg)
Ban siege weapons!
About that 3d printed gun advocate business ...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cody-wilson-arrested-3d-printed-gun-company-owner-sex-girl-detained-taiwan-today-2018-09-21/
QuoteCody Wilson, 3D-printed gun company owner accused of sex with girl, is arrested in Taiwan
TAIPEI, Taiwan -- The owner of a Texas company that sells blueprints to make untraceable 3-D printed guns has been arrested in Taiwan, CBS News confirmed. Cody Wilson has been accused of having sex with an underage girl and paying her $500 afterward in Texas.
Taiwan's National Immigration Agency and Criminal Investigation Bureau confirmed to CBS News Friday that Wilson was arrested. The bureau confirmed earlier that Wilson was in Taiwan after arriving on the island earlier this month.
The bureau also said Wilson's passport has been nullified, which means he's staying in Taiwan illegally, CBS News has confirmed.
Taiwan's Central News Agency said the island's immigration department would make arrangements for Wilson to return to the U.S. as soon as possible.
Austin police Cmdr. Troy Officer said Wednesday that before Wilson flew to Taiwan, a friend of the 16-year-old girl had told him that police were investigating the accusation that he had sex with the youth.
In a court filing this week, Wilson was accused of having sex with the girl at an Austin hotel last month. A counselor for the teenager reported the accusation to Austin police a week later, according to the affidavit. Wilson met the girl through the website SugarDaddyMeet.com, where she had created an online profile, according to the document.
The girl, according to the affidavit, said they met in the parking lot of an Austin coffee shop before they drove to the hotel. The girl told investigators that Wilson paid her $500 after they had sex and then dropped her off at a Whataburger restaurant.
Wilson is identified in the affidavit as the owner of Austin-based Defense Distributed. After a federal court barred Wilson from posting the printable gun blueprints online for free last month, he announced he had begun selling them for any amount of money to U.S. customers through his website.
Nineteen states and the District of Columbia sued to stop an agreement that the government reached with Defense Distributed, arguing that the blueprints for how to print plastic guns could be obtained by felons or terrorists.
Law enforcement officials worry the guns are easy to conceal and are untraceable since there's no requirement for the firearms to have serial numbers. Gun industry experts have said the printed guns are a modern method of legally assembling a firearm a home without serial numbers.
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2018, 08:04:27 PM
Ban siege weapons!
If you criminalize siege weapons only criminals will have siege weapons.
Quote from: Malthus on September 21, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2018, 08:04:27 PM
Ban siege weapons!
If you criminalize siege weapons only criminals will have siege weapons.
And then law abiding citizens could not protect themselves with a viable counter battery weapon.
A gun maker having sex with a minor and then dropping her off at Whataburger, it doesn't get more Texas than that.
Guy who tried to kill a black teen for knocking on his door and asking for directions is charged with attempted murder.
Video inside.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/11/teen-missed-school-bus-when-he-knocked-door-directions-man-shot-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6a0fadef329f
*assault with intent to murder
Looks like his own camera got him. :wacko:
Sho doo.
From the video, it's not clear that he fired intentionally. Looks like he aimed, but didn't fire, and then started moving shotgun away when it went off. He seemed to be taken a little by surprise when it went off, though maybe he just wasn't experienced.
If this was Florida, could he just claim he wasn't backing down, and the kid was a threat?
After all, if the kid if armed, at any moment he could have stopped running away, spun around, and shot the guy.
Gun people tell us ALL THE TIME that you can't wait until the potential threat actually shoots at you, because by then it is too late, so you have to shoot first, and ask questions later.
Sure, the kid was sprinting away in terror, but that could be a clever ruse.
I think in our polite and well armed society, this is a legit shoot.
Lol
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1059168382556168192
Quote from: PopehatProsecutor wants gun, doesn't want to buy gun, asks Sheriff, Sheriff says just borrow one from evidence in an open case, prosecutor looses gun that is crucial evidence.
This would be a problem for someone in a class of people who face consequences.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 05, 2018, 07:22:41 AM
Lol
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1059168382556168192
Quote from: PopehatProsecutor wants gun, doesn't want to buy gun, asks Sheriff, Sheriff says just borrow one from evidence in an open case, prosecutor looses gun that is crucial evidence.
This would be a problem for someone in a class of people who face consequences.
What did he loose it at?
QuoteNRA
Verified account
Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane. Half of the articles in Annals of Internal Medicine are pushing for gun control. Most upsetting, however, the medical community seems to have consulted NO ONE but themselves.
This has caused a minor Twitter backlash from doctors who, you know, treat gunshot wounds.
Good to know the Feds are on the case. :rolleyes:
https://www.propublica.org/article/an-atomwaffen-member-sketched-a-map-to-take-the-neo-nazis-down-what-path-officials-took-is-a-mystery
QuoteAn Atomwaffen Member Sketched a Map to Take the Neo-Nazis Down. What Path Officials Took Is a Mystery.
Some experts and former officials see the case as part of a larger pattern, evidence that federal agencies are understaffed and out of position in confronting the threat of white supremacist terrorism — even as the FBI's latest report shows a spike in hate crimes for the third straight year.
by A.C. Thompson,
Nov. 20, 10:45 a.m. EST
It was a grisly scene inside Apartment 3722 at the Hamptons, a gated community in Tampa, Florida.
One body lay face up on the floor, wedged between a wall and an air mattress. A handgun was stuffed in a holster on the dead man's waist. The other body, clad in a black T-shirt and shorts, was slumped back on a futon, a shattered and bloody iPhone on his lap. A police investigator would later write that the two men had been "shot multiple times at close range with an assault rifle."
There were some obvious clues that this was no ordinary double homicide. Tacked to the wall near the bodies was a large black-and-white flag bearing the insignia of the Schutzstaffel, or SS, Adolf Hitler's elite paramilitary unit. On a nearby shelf was a black Stahlhelm, the distinctive helmet worn by Nazi soldiers during World War II. There were multiple copies of "Mein Kampf" and a prominent place was reserved for "The Turner Diaries," the infamous novel of race war in America that has inspired generations of terrorists, among them Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber. A framed picture of McVeigh sat on a dresser.
On that night in May 2017, the police quickly took two suspects into custody and developed a rough outline of what had happened. One of the suspects, Devon Arthurs, 18, said the victims were his roommates, and members of a neo-Nazi group called the Atomwaffen Division. Arthurs said that he'd decided to leave the group, and that he'd killed the men to keep them from carrying out what he said were their plans for violence.
The second suspect detained by police, Brandon Russell, also lived in the apartment. Russell told the authorities he'd just returned home from a weekend of training with the Florida Army National Guard. And then Russell revealed something that should have set off alarms among federal investigators assigned to track the growing threat from armed, violent right-wing extremists. He said, and the police quickly confirmed, that the single-car garage attached to the apartment was full of explosives.
Explosives experts from the Tampa Police Department and the local FBI field office soon found components of a crude pipe bomb as well as radioactive materials. The search turned up ammonium nitrate and nitromethane, the mixture used by McVeigh to destroy the federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995. There were sacks of explosive precursors, including potassium chloride, red iron oxide and potassium nitrate. There were homemade fuses fashioned from brass 5.56 mm rifle cartridges. In a closet, they found two Geiger counters.
And there was a cooler with the name Brandon scrawled on the lid in black marker. Inside, the investigators discovered HMTD — hexamethylene triperoxide diamine — a potent, highly volatile peroxide-based explosive. It has become a favored tool of terrorists both here and abroad, who cook it up in small batches using recipes circulating on the internet and in improvised weapons manuals.
At Tampa police headquarters, investigators put Arthurs and Russell in separate interrogation rooms. They wanted to know about the killings, about the neo-Nazi group and about the explosives.
Arthurs said the apartment had served as a nerve center for Atomwaffen Division, a white supremacist organization of 60 to 70 people that has spoken openly of its hopes of igniting race war in the United States. If the authorities could access the group's encrypted online chats, Arthurs said, "it'd be easy to track down each member." The interrogation was videotaped, and a recording was obtained by ProPublica and Frontline.
"The things that they're planning were horrible. They're planning bombings and stuff like that on countless people, they're planning to kill civilian life," Arthurs said. A detective asked if Atomwaffen had drawn up a list of specific targets. "Power lines, nuclear reactors, synagogues, things like that," Arthurs replied.
"I'm telling you stuff that the FBI should be hearing," Arthurs said, adding that he thought lives could be saved.
To this day, it is unclear if the FBI talked with Arthurs or what steps it took to shut down Atomwaffen. The FBI declined repeated requests to discuss the case. But this much is clear: Within months of Arthurs' warnings, Atomwaffen members or associates had killed three more people.
It is frequently argued that the white men who murder in the name of racial purity are lone wolves, radicalized by the echo chamber of the alt-right internet. No one can reasonably expect authorities to stop a seemingly law-abiding citizen like Dylann Roof, the young man who killed nine black church members in South Carolina.
But the Atomwaffen case seems a fair test of the country's intelligence abilities. And a close look at it suggests that much more could have been done to investigate an organization one of its founding members, Arthurs, was begging the authorities to shut down and offering his help to do so.
Some experts and former officials see the case as part of a larger pattern, evidence that federal agencies are understaffed and out of position in confronting the threat of white supremacist terrorism even as the FBI's latest report shows a spike in hate crimes for the third straight year.
That concern intensified after the massacre of 11 Jewish worshipers last month at a synagogue in Pittsburgh. John Cohen and George Selim, former senior officials in the Department of Homeland Security, criticized what they say has been the disinvestment in programs and efforts meant to help protect against the threat of far-right attacks. Task forces have been disbanded, they said, and recent efforts to reconstitute what they termed an "intelligence infrastructure" for domestic terrorism have lagged.
The government's own data underlines the threat. A 2017 Government Accountability Office report said "far-right extremism" was responsible for 62 of the 85 lethal extremist incidents in the U.S. from the day after 9/11 through 2016, while Islamist extremist violence was responsible for 23 of the incidents. The report said far-right extremism had killed 106 people over those years.
Contacted by ProPublica and Frontline, Cohen, now a professor at Rutgers University, said he stood by his public critique.
"We know what the problem is, but every time there's another one of these attacks all we hear is, 'Oh, this is shocking, this is horrible, our prayers are with the people, who would have imagined this ever would have happened?'" Cohen said. "No, it's very imaginable because it's happening on a regular basis in this country. We're just not doing enough to stop it."
The authorities dispatched to the Tampa apartment seemed unprepared to deal with this particular brand of terrorism. The police detectives and FBI agent who interviewed Arthurs and Russell appear to have given little credence to the evidence discovered in the apartment, or to Arthurs' allegations that the group was plotting terrorist attacks and mass murders.
While Arthurs was taken to the county jail on homicide charges, police and FBI agents released Russell, who claimed that he used the explosives to power model rockets. An officer even drove Russell back to the murder scene so he could retrieve his car.
What happened next could well have been a disaster. Within hours, Russell acquired an AR-15-style assault rifle and a bolt-action hunting rifle. He loaded homemade body armor and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition into his car, and set off for the Florida Keys with another Atomwaffen member. He was eventually arrested by sheriff's deputies in Monroe County. They were shocked by the weapons and ammunition they found in the car. There was no luggage. No food. Russell didn't seem prepared for an extended trip, they said.
"When we found all the weapons, we were convinced that we had just stopped a mass shooting," recalled Deanna Torres, one of the deputies who captured Russell, who would eventually plead guilty to federal explosives charges.
Five former law enforcement agents spoke to ProPublica and Frontline about the handling of Arthurs and Russell. Most said they were baffled by the decision to release Russell.
Tampa police and local prosecutors would not discuss the case.
Atomwaffen didn't disband in the aftermath of the Tampa arrests. The group continued to recruit new members, staging "hate camps" in at least two states that included weapons training. And the group's violence went unhindered.
In December 2017, a 17-year-old Atomwaffen follower was arrested on suspicion of murdering the parents of his ex-girlfriend after they ended their daughter's relationship with the neo-Nazi. A month later, Samuel Woodward was charged with killing a gay Jewish college student in California. Woodward, ProPublica reported in the following days, had participated in weapons training with Atomwaffen members in Texas in the months after the Tampa slayings. Woodward's fellow Atomwaffen members cheered online when he was arrested, calling him a "one man gay jew wrecking crew."
In response to questions about DHS's readiness to combat white supremacist violence, DHS Press Secretary Tyler Houlton issued a statement:
"The Department of Homeland Security is committed to combating all forms of violent extremism, especially movements that espouse racial supremacy or bigotry. DHS takes all threats to the homeland, both foreign and domestic, very seriously and to suggest otherwise is an affront to the men and women of DHS that work tirelessly every day to ensure the safety of the American people. We will continue to work hand-in-hand with our federal, state and local partners to carry out our mission of keeping our country safe."
Brandon Russell met Devon Arthurs online, on a site called Tinychat that provides video chat services, Arthurs said. Both young men lived in Florida — Brandon in Tampa, Devon in Longwood, a suburb north of Orlando. Wearing headsets, the two would sit at their computers and talk deep into the night.
Eventually, their conversations moved over to Iron March, a now-defunct neo-Nazi forum with the tagline "race war now!" On Iron March, Russell posted photos of himself posing with a Mossberg shotgun while wearing a white T-shirt bearing the words "Natural Born Killers" and an image of a Nazi eagle. Online, he celebrated school shooters like Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris (Columbine High School) and Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech); mass murderer Anders Breivik (a self-proclaimed National Socialist who killed 77 people in Norway); and Hitler.
In addition to his fascination with fascism and acts of violence, Russell had one more obsession: nuclear weapons. He posted instructions online for building improvised nuclear reactors — it's not clear how realistic these plans were — and studied nuclear physics as an undergraduate at the University of South Florida.
When Russell launched Atomwaffen in 2015, Arthurs was one of the first recruits to the group. Arthurs began gravitating toward Nazi beliefs at 13 or 14, according to his father, Alan Arthurs, who said he's still mystified by his son's interest in Nazism. "I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't know why," he told Frontline and ProPublica.
In the spring of 2017, Devon Arthurs and Russell moved into the Tampa apartment. Arthurs had dropped out of high school and had no job. But Alan Arthurs believes his son and Russell were making lengthy road trips to sell illegal firearms in states far from Florida.
In time, Russell and Arthurs were joined in the Tampa apartment by Andrew Oneschuk, 18, and Jeremy Himmelman, 22, two Atomwaffen members from Massachusetts.
Oneschuk and Himmelman were the dead men police discovered in the apartment on the night of May 19, 2017.
Alan Arthurs said his son called him after the shooting and confessed to killing the pair. Over the ensuing hours, Arthurs told a shifting series of stories about his motives. He told his father he'd killed them to head off Atomwaffen's terrorist plans. He said something similar to investigators. But he also offered an even stranger version: that he'd converted to Islam and supported ISIS, and that he'd killed the two men because they mocked his newfound religion. A judge has since ruled Arthurs mentally incompetent to stand trial.
In his interrogation shortly after his arrest, Arthurs said he was aware of his mental health problems and wished he'd been hospitalized long before. He said that people might not think he looked like a terrorist, but that he had been engaged in dark and dangerous conduct.
And then, in quite composed fashion, he sketched out in great detail both the terrorist ambitions of Atomwaffen and the tactics law enforcement might use to infiltrate the group and bring it down. He warned the Tampa detective leading the questioning, Kenneth Nightlinger, against underestimating the group. Repeatedly, he tried to push back against what he seemed to regard as the detective's skepticism.
Arthurs said Atomwaffen drew inspiration from The Order, a neo-Nazi terrorist group active during the 1980s. Led by Robert Mathews, the organization believed the U.S. had been taken over by a shadow government of powerful Jews. The Order bombed a synagogue and in 1984 assassinated Alan Berg, a prominent Jewish radio host who lived in Denver.
Russell and Atomwaffen "venerate" The Order, Arthurs said in his interview with detectives. "These people, they have no human empathy like we do."
"These people ... they know exactly how to build, they knew exactly how to build bombs that could've destroyed this entire building," Arthurs said.
Nightlinger often pressed for more information.
"Do you know about specific plans that these two individuals had?" the detective asked, referring to Oneschuk and Himmelman.
Arthurs said the men were planning on blowing up power lines near a major highway. They were going to use the HMTD to do it.
The detective pressed further.
"Did Brandon ever specifically talk about doing anything similar to that? To any government buildings?"
"Oh, absolutely. All the time," Arthurs answered.
"Any specific ones?"
"Government offices, federal buildings," Arthurs said.
The detective at one point tried to assure Arthurs that he and others would act on his information.
"This is absolutely serious stuff," said Nightlinger, encouraging Arthurs to pass on "any information" that could be used to combat "these misguided individuals."
Arthurs apologized for seeming flustered.
"I'm not trying to sound like a schizo cause I know that I'm trampling over words and stuff," he said.
"No, no, you're in control, man," Nightlinger said. "You're good, keep going."
And Arthurs did.
Arthurs told the detective that Russell acquired guns and trained him and the other roommates in how to handle them. He said while Russell had joined the Florida Army National Guard, he'd used the American flag as a doormat to the apartment. He warned that if Russell was given the chance, he'd easily be able to reacquire the explosives that had been confiscated from the garage.
And repeatedly Arthurs offered to help law enforcement round up Atomwaffen members and dismantle the organization. He'd open up his computer. And he thought it would be easy to penetrate the computers of the others.
"You think having your computer, an FBI agent as you requested, sit down and go over this stuff, you think then you would open some eyes?" Nightlinger asked.
"Yeah, I definitely do," Arthurs said. "I think that it would open some eyes to a much bigger thing than what happened today, and I think that I could definitely, basically save a lot of lives overall."
At one point, the detective seemed persuaded. Nightlinger suggested he would pass the word to the appropriate agents in the FBI.
"I mean they're actually going to be actually be made aware of this and they're going to do their homework," he said. "Just to make sure you're not talking out your ass about something here in order to maybe gain some favorable treatment."
The FBI would not answer questions about its handling of the Tampa case, saying that the investigation remains open. Agents have questioned former Atomwaffen members in at least two states, according to individuals with direct knowledge of the inquiry.
In a statement, the FBI said: "The FBI is not permitted to discuss any facet of the Brandon Russell investigation. The decision not to discuss this investigation was made in accordance with Department of Justice Guidelines and FBI Rules and Regulations."
ProPublica and Frontline reviewed the crime scene photos and police reports from the Tampa apartment with Kerry Myers, a former FBI bomb tech who investigated the Oklahoma City bombing.
"They were making bombs," Myers said. "This is a bomb maker's workshop."
Myers added that the materials were enough "to blow up a car, blow up an airplane, blow up a bus. We have the same basic explosive kit here that the Boston Marathon bombers had."
Alan Arthurs, who had watched his son's involvement in Nazism develop over the years and seems to have been the first person Devon called after the killings, told ProPublica and Frontline he has never been interviewed by FBI agents. The local Tampa detectives didn't question Alan Arthurs until June 5, 2017, more than two weeks after the crimes, according to Police Department records.
At the Tampa apartment, investigators recovered one of Russell's notebooks, which contained a hand-drawn map of a quarry located between Orlando and Tampa. The map included GPS coordinates for the quarry and a description of its operations. Such facilities often use high-powered explosives to blast through rock. McVeigh stole blasting caps from a mining operation before the Oklahoma City attack.
The quarry in Florida, a sand mine, is owned by E.R. Jahna Industries. Reached for comment, company executive Adell Jahna said that he had never heard of Atomwaffen and that the company had never been contacted by local law enforcement or the FBI in connection with the case.
During his interrogation, Devon Arthurs had not only warned of Atomwaffen's violent ambitions, but said repeatedly that the organization had attracted U.S. military personnel as members and was aiming to recruit more.
Arthurs said Russell, the group's founder, had signed up for the Florida Army National Guard in part to get the kind of combat training he might put to use for Atomwaffen. Russell had been drilling in Pinellas Park with the 53rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team on the day of the murders. In his own interview with Tampa police, Russell said he expected his unit to be deployed in 2018 and was considering the Army as a career.
"He joined specifically for the knowledge and the training, and he wants to use that training against the government," Arthurs said of Russell during his police interrogation. "These people join the military specially to get training. To get access to equipment." The ultimate goal, Arthurs continued, was to become more equipped to kill people.
Defense Department directives and the regulations of each military branch bar service members from engaging in white supremacist activity. Service members can face criminal charges and expulsion from the military for violating these policies.
After Russell's arrest, the Florida Guard mounted an investigation into his activities while in uniform. Three weeks after Russell was jailed, the Guard wrapped up its inquiry. In a report, the Guard listed some of the troubling things it had found:
•Russell had a tattoo of the Atomwaffen logo on his right shoulder. The investigator on the case noted that the U.S. military did not maintain a database of tattoos that might have been used to screen for troubling affiliations.
•Two of Russell's superiors had warned him about his conduct after he repeatedly "vocalized his hatred for homosexuality and 'faggots.'"
•Russell had "seemed very anxious to receive body armor, and keep his military issued gear."
But the investigation concluded that Russell had not sought to recruit other soldiers for Atomwaffen, and that he "did not present consistent characteristics that would have led a reasonable person to suspect Russell held such radical beliefs." Investigators determined there had been no negligence in allowing Russell into the Guard or in his continued presence in its ranks.
The two-page summary of the investigation, obtained by ProPublica and Frontline, contains no references to Arthurs' statements to authorities about other possible Atomwaffen members in the military. Nor does it contain any evidence that the Guard had alerted officials in other military branches to the potential presence of Atomwaffen in their ranks.
The Florida Army National Guard did not respond to repeated requests for an interview regarding Russell.
This year, ProPublica and Frontline identified seven Atomwaffen members with military experience, including Russell.
The Pentagon did not respond to detailed requests from ProPublica and Frontline to discuss Atomwaffen and its possible recruitment of current or former military members.
In a statement, a Pentagon spokeswoman, Maj. Carla Gleason of the Air Force, said: "The DoD uses a multi-level approach to learn as much as possible about potential new soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines so we can assess whether they should be extended the privilege to serve in the military. While we can't guarantee that every person who enters the service will be free from holding extremist thoughts, various screening tools provide us the best opportunity to identify those who do not share our values."
Kathleen Belew, an assistant professor at the University of Chicago, has studied the historic links between the white power movement and the U.S. armed forces. White power groups, she said, have long drawn from the ranks of the military. And former soldiers have become leaders of white supremacist groups over the decades.
Aryan Nations chief Richard Butler did a stint in the Army. KKK Grand Dragon Louis Beam served in Vietnam, as did White Patriot Party leader Frazier Glenn Miller. In 2014, after decades of involvement with white extremist groups, Miller murdered three people outside of a pair of Jewish institutions in Overland Park, Kansas. He was eventually sentenced to death and is awaiting execution.
Belew is careful to say that the members of the military who wind up affiliated with white supremacist groups constitute "a tiny, not even statistically significant percentage" of total service members. But those few, she said, have often played "an enormously important role" in organizing such groups and carrying out their bloodiest actions.
In the aftermath of the Vietnam War, Belew said, white power groups increasingly modeled themselves on the U.S. military and began to focus on recruiting "both veterans and active-duty troops in order to run boot camps" and "create paramilitary training facilities." As the movement grew more extreme, she said, it sought out people who could build improvised explosives or accurately fire a submachine gun.
Atomwaffen has certainly embraced that tactic. Current and former soldiers have participated in what the group calls "hate camps," secret weapons training conducted in a number of states around the country over the last two years.
Those who have studied the relationship between military service and white supremacist ideology say soldiers can become deeply disillusioned when fighting controversial wars with little in the way of clear victories. They may return angry and damaged, animated by a degree of nihilism.
One Atomwaffen member who saw combat in Afghanistan discussed his emotional demons in the group's private online chats. The man wrote that he had "nightmares about seeing people i know blown up" and felt guilt about inadvertently killing women and children.
ProPublica and Frontline interviewed a former Atomwaffen member who had served overseas in the Army. He would only speak if his identity was not revealed and asked us to call him Jeremiah.
"There were a lot of people that were disenchanted with the mission. I'd say about half of the guys in my unit," Jeremiah said. "I think a lot of guys, they're lost and they want hope. They're looking for answers."
Somehow he found those answers on Iron March, the now-defunct online neo-Nazi hangout that Russell used to launch Atomwaffen. According to Jeremiah, Atomwaffen "definitely wanted to appeal to veterans." Within the organization, "people looked up to the military guys," he said.
He said he encountered other racial extremists during his time in the Army: "There's a good amount of them. They keep quiet for the most part about it, especially when they're in because they can get in a lot of trouble."
But it's unclear how seriously the military is taking the matter. The former member said he's never been contacted by military investigators.
ProPublica and Frontline interviewed more than 20 officials with direct knowledge of the military's handling of felony-level criminal investigations. Most said racial extremists were a low priority for military police and detectives with elite military law enforcement units like the Army Criminal Investigation Division and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which polices the Navy and Marine Corps. Military investigators are more focused on street gangs operating within the armed forces, sexual assault and illegal drugs, the officials said.
Roughly a year after Russell's arrest in Tampa, an Army investigator told ProPublica and Frontline that the Army's CID unit had not opened an investigation into Russell and his neo-Nazi organization. Several military officials said Army CID had no jurisdiction in Russell's case because he was a member of the Florida Guard and not an active-duty soldier.
ProPublica and Frontline published their initial reporting on the nexus between Atomwaffen and the military in May. Since then, the Marine Corps has taken action against Atomwaffen member Vasillios Pistolis, a lance corporal on active duty. Pistolis, who had allegedly participated in assaults during the Charlottesville, Virginia, white supremacist rally in 2017, was court-martialed and ousted from the corps. In interviews, Pistolis admitted having been a member of Atomwaffen but denied being in Charlottesville.
In response to that earlier reporting, U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., in May wrote a letter to Defense Secretary James Mattis requesting details on the Pentagon's efforts to rid the ranks of white supremacists.
Replying to Ellison, the Defense Department said that it had received "27 reports of extremist activity (domestic) by Service members over the past five years." Military investigators, the letter continued, had investigated 25 of these reports; ultimately, 18 service members from across the military had been disciplined or forced out of the armed forces.
Gleason, the Pentagon spokeswoman, said she couldn't provide information on individual cases but stated, "Our standards are clear; participation in extremist activities has never been tolerated and is punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice." She added that commanders are "encouraged to be preventive and pro-active, and they are doing that."
We took the Pentagon's letter to Ellison to retired Maj. Gen. John Altenburg, who served as the Army's deputy judge advocate general, the second-highest-ranking JAG officer in the Army. Altenburg said he was persuaded that the military is taking proper action against offenders in its ranks.
"I'm pleased to see that they're doing all this," Altenburg said of the 18 cases of discipline handed down by the Pentagon. "This looks very thorough to me and looks like they're on top of it."
He noted that the Pentagon letter did not distinguish between white supremacists and other types of political extremists.
At the Southern Poverty Law Center, Heidi Beirich was skeptical of the Defense Department's figures, calling them "laughable."
"Hate groups are telling their people to join the military, and this was something that's been documented, both in FBI reports and in DHS reports," said Beirich, who heads the center's Intelligence Project. "There's not only going to be 27 of them, in a military force of, I don't know, one and a half to two million people in the United States, who are under arms."
Last year, nearly 25 percent of active-duty service members surveyed by the Military Times said they'd encountered white nationalists within the ranks. The publication polled more than 1,000 service members.
Beirich questioned the Pentagon's willingness to root out white supremacists. "We keep sending stuff to the military, examples of people, saying: 'You should look at this guy. He looks like he might be in violation,'" she said. "Most of the time we never even hear anything back from them."
Atomwaffen Division :lol:
From the upcoming Fallout: Deutschland
:mad:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Dallas-Man-Sentenced-After-Caught-With-Prohibited-3D-Printed-Gun-and-List-of-Lawmakers-Addresses-505812281.html
QuoteDallas Man Sentenced After Caught With Prohibited 3D-Printed Gun and List of Lawmakers' Addresses
A Dallas man was sentenced to eight years in prison after he was found with a partially 3D-printed AR-15 and a list of lawmakers' addresses in July 2017, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the North District of Texas said Wednesday.
Police officers in Grand Prairie arrested Eric Gerard McGinnis in the 2017 incident when they discovered partially 3D-printed gun and a list labeled "9/11/2001 list of American Terrorists," U.S. Attorney Erin Nealy Cox said. The list was not used as evidence, but was presented at sentencing. It included home and office addresses of several federal lawmakers -- Democrat and Republican.
McGinnis was barred at the time from possessing firearms or ammunition because of an August 2015 violent altercation with a live-in girlfriend, the U.S. Attorney's Office said.
Since he wasn't allowed to have a gun, the U.S. Attorney's Office said McGinnis obtained individual pieces of the weapon and used a 3D printer to create a "lower receiver" -- the gun's firing mechanism.
"I didn't buy a gun, I built the gun," McGinnis said in a recorded jailhouse phone call with a family member. "The upper, I printed a lower, and I built it -- installed the trigger and did all that stuff. I built it."
"When he realized he couldn't legally purchase a firearm, Eric McGinnis circumvented our gun laws by 3D-printing his weapon, eliminating the need for a background check," Nealy Cox said. "This case should send a message to prohibited persons contemplating acquiring guns by any method: this office is committed to keeping guns out of the hands of those who violate protective orders for domestic violence, no matter how the guns are obtained - by theft, purchase, or 3D printing."
Upon analysis of McGinnis' electronic devices, the U.S. Capitol Police suggested McGinnis had an interest in James Hodgkinson, the shooter who injured U.S. Rep. Steve Scalise (R-LA 1st District) at a GOP Congressional baseball practice in Virginia in 2017.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/434402-missouri-lawmaker-files-bills-requiring-some-residents-to-own-ar-15s?fbclid=IwAR0m-_dFkie89Kq2eTJQUuSnmhHyUaed3aZcML536ruvYPESUJlZ4bTGHUs
QuoteMissouri lawmaker files bills requiring some residents to own AR-15s, handguns
A Republican lawmaker in Missouri wants to require adults in his state to purchase handguns and AR-15 rifles.
Two bills introduced by state Rep. Andrew McDaniel would require residents to purchase firearms while providing $1 million in tax credits on a first-come, first-served basis to residents who fall under the law.
The first bill, the McDaniel Second Amendment Act, would require Missouri residents aged 21 or older to purchase a handgun. It also would allot up to $1 million per year in tax credits for residents who purchased weapons to comply with the law. The bill was filed in late February.
The second bill, the McDaniel Militia Act, was filed days after the handgun bill and would require Missouri residents aged 18 to 35 to purchase an AR-15. It also would provide a tax credit of up to $1 million per year to incentivize the purchase of weapons.
While the bills do not specify any penalties for adults who refuse to comply with the provisions, both stipulate that the Missouri Department of Revenue can "promulgate rules to implement the provisions of this section." The bills would sunset in six years if not extended by the state legislature.
They would not apply to felons or residents otherwise prohibited from owning firearms.
Both bills have received two readings in the Missouri House but have no hearings or further action scheduled so far, according to the state House's website.
I mean without money for proper training in their use what is the point? Just owning a gun doesn't do much for you.
Quote from: Valmy on March 18, 2019, 01:39:09 PM
I mean without money for proper training in their use what is the point? Just owning a gun doesn't do much for you.
Indeed. the idea isn't completely insane - you can squint at it and see echoes of what Switzerland does - but without training and organization as some form of militia it's just stupid.
You can't take the Arkansas out of Missouri.
Quote from: Barrister on March 18, 2019, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 18, 2019, 01:39:09 PM
I mean without money for proper training in their use what is the point? Just owning a gun doesn't do much for you.
Indeed. the idea isn't completely insane - you can squint at it and see echoes of what Switzerland does - but without training and organization as some form of militia it's just stupid.
Oh come on. This has nothing to do with any militia, it is right wing whacko virtue signalling, and nothing more.
That idea is nuttier than young earth creationism.
Meanwhile in the sane world, New Zealand's PM announces plans to ban all semi-automatic military style firearms along with a buy back scheme.
So sensibly following in the footsteps of the UK and Australia.
Is Missouri full of guns manufacturer?
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 21, 2019, 06:23:59 AM
Is Missouri full of guns manufacturer?
Not that I know of. Just idiots. The Rep who proposed it was just trolling. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2019, 11:25:09 AM
The Rep who proposed it was just trolling. :rolleyes:
Using tax payer time for the LOLZ.
Quote from: Syt on November 08, 2018, 12:57:36 PM
QuoteNRA
Verified account
Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane. Half of the articles in Annals of Internal Medicine are pushing for gun control. Most upsetting, however, the medical community seems to have consulted NO ONE but themselves.
This has caused a minor Twitter backlash from doctors who, you know, treat gunshot wounds.
In Ontario, a group of pro-gun advocates actually attempted to bring a barrage of disciplinary complaints against a doc for being pro-gun-control (the regulator sensibly tossed them all in the trash).
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-doctors-college-dismisses-gun-control-complaints-against/
The "stay in your lane" phrase appears to be an imported slogan.
QuoteThe Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights (CCFR) started a campaign last month encouraging members to file complaints about Dr. Ahmed with the CPSO, using the "stay in your lane" mantra in online posts – the same line the U.S. National Rifle Association has directed at doctors advocating for stricter gun control.
Quote from: Malthus on March 21, 2019, 12:52:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 08, 2018, 12:57:36 PM
QuoteNRA
Verified account
Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane. Half of the articles in Annals of Internal Medicine are pushing for gun control. Most upsetting, however, the medical community seems to have consulted NO ONE but themselves.
This has caused a minor Twitter backlash from doctors who, you know, treat gunshot wounds.
In Ontario, a group of pro-gun advocates actually attempted to bring a barrage of disciplinary complaints against a doc for being pro-gun-control (the regulator sensibly tossed them all in the trash).
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-doctors-college-dismisses-gun-control-complaints-against/
The "stay in your lane" phrase appears to be an imported slogan.
QuoteThe Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights (CCFR) started a campaign last month encouraging members to file complaints about Dr. Ahmed with the CPSO, using the "stay in your lane" mantra in online posts – the same line the U.S. National Rifle Association has directed at doctors advocating for stricter gun control.
I would think doctors would be SME's on gunshot wounds. I dunno maybe I'm out of bounds with that line of thought.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
I would think doctors would be SME's on gunshot wounds.
What is "SME"?
Quote from: Malthus on March 21, 2019, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
I would think doctors would be SME's on gunshot wounds.
What is "SME"?
Subject Matter Expert.
But I disagree...not all (and probably relatively very few) doctors work in trauma wards.
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 21, 2019, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 21, 2019, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
I would think doctors would be SME's on gunshot wounds.
What is "SME"?
Subject Matter Expert.
But I disagree...not all (and probably relatively very few) doctors work in trauma wards.
Any doctor working in an emergency care facility would see them, but that might be what you mean by a trauma ward.
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 21, 2019, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 21, 2019, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 21, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
I would think doctors would be SME's on gunshot wounds.
What is "SME"?
Subject Matter Expert.
But I disagree...not all (and probably relatively very few) doctors work in trauma wards.
I see.
While it may be the case that few docs work in trauma wards, the specific doctor in the article is one of them.
"Ontario's regulatory college for doctors has dismissed complaints lodged by members of a firearm advocacy group against a Toronto trauma surgeon advocating for tighter gun control."
Canada's gun laws are mostly okay.
It's not like I can buy an AR-15 at my local Wal-Mart.
All handguns have to be registered and there's no carrying a gun or rifle at your local Tim Horton's.
Quote from: viper37 on March 22, 2019, 02:06:32 PM
Canada's gun laws are mostly okay.
It's not like I can buy an AR-15 at my local Wal-Mart.
All handguns have to be registered and there's no carrying a gun or riflt at your local Tim Horton's.
I see. I have been told this is the first step to a fascist dictatorship. Though I am not sure Canadian Hitler is going to need to invade anybody to get Lebensraum.
Only if he wants territory where life is worth leben.
BURN
(https://preview.redd.it/na63lyxeyuo21.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=efdb009ab12ffa633dde1d7a55179a2b556140eb)
Acquired my first lever action rifle. Dad gave me his Winchester Model 94 in .30-30. It's the 1967 (?) edition with the octagonal barrel. Not really worth a whole lot but it's fun to shoot.
Nice
How's your one handed twirling cock?
I am talking about the rifle. :sleep:
Quote from: Malthus on March 21, 2019, 12:52:49 PM
The "stay in your lane" phrase appears to be an imported slogan.
Yes an American thing. As in: "The NRA should stay in their lane and focus on gun safety and education, not dabble in power politics and Washington lobbying."
What happened to the stories that Russia was trying to covertly influence and donate to the NRA?
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2020, 11:29:29 PM
What happened to the stories that Russia was trying to covertly influence and donate to the NRA?
They probably lack the funds to do so now that their economy is collapsing along with the price of oil.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 26, 2020, 07:44:54 PM
How's your one handed twirling cock?
I am talking about the rifle. :sleep:
Oh, you... ^_^
So I went to one of the bigger gun shops yesterday to seek out some .30-30 ammo for mah daddy's rifle. Felt weird throwing on a face wrap/gaiter thingie before entering a gun store, but I try to be a good citizen.
Place looked like it had been looted. I'm guessing 90-95% of the rack and display shelves were empty. They usually have a huge inventory, so the store must have had record sales for March and April.
They did have a couple decently-priced CZ-75s-- one CZ-75B and a CZ-75DB. Been wanting a CZ-75 since the 90s, but had lost interest when they jumped up in price. I sold a couple rifles to some panic-buyers a couple weeks ago so I'm tempted.
They are solid pistols.
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2020, 11:29:29 PM
What happened to the stories that Russia was trying to covertly influence and donate to the NRA?
Seems like a waste of resources, the NRA is already doing a very effective job wrecking America on its own.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/us-gun-owners-meme-feud?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp
QuoteUS gun owners aim firearms at their genitals to settle feud within community
Gun owners are taking photos of themselves pointing weapons at their genitals with the safety off – but the trend is far from new for gun enthusiasts
Gun owners are putting their metal where their manhoods are in a bizarre trend that sees men courting danger to prove how well they can manage a gun.
Those participating in the meme do so by pointing their gun at their genitals with the safety off, placing their finger over the trigger, and posting a photo of it on social media. And voilà, just like that – proof they are very manly.
It was first assumed that the gun owners were embracing the risky pose as a way of trolling progressives. The author and storyteller Dylan Park, who originally reposted the images in a viral tweet, summed that theory up as follows: "To everyone asking why, I'm not 100% sure. But I think the thinking here is 'Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people so we're going to point them at our dicks to prove how safe they are' or something," he said.
But, as detailed in an article by Vice, the trend started more than a year ago after fighting within the gun enthusiasts community, which eventually led to one faction trying to prove superior knowledge over the other. As the Facebook page Gun Owners Who Hate Gun Owners explained: "It's actually to upset people who think trigger discipline is important."
While it's not unusual to see gun owners commending others for their gun-safety knowledge online – using the safety catch, not pointing the gun at anything they don't want to shoot and not putting the finger on the trigger until they want to shoot – it appears that their vigilance has upset other hobbyists.
"The uninitiated zero in on dumb shit like [safety] because it's their entire knowledge base. It's the only thing they understand," said the moderator of a Facebook group named Shit Gun Normos Say (normo being a word pejoratively applied to people who stick to rules or norms with fervor).
"Congratulating people for keeping their finger in the right place is like congratulating somebody for not wrapping their seatbelt around their neck, or for not shitting their pants in public," the moderator added in a confounding explanation that simultaneously manages to make light of practicing safety precautions while joking about how stupid it would be to brag about not wearing a seatbelt.
By this logic, those who put themselves in the most dangerous position are the only ones who can really prove how brave they are. Just think about it like cycling through a red traffic light at an intersection with no handlebars, or setting your house on fire just to prove you can get out. It certainly is one way of looking at the world.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY4pMcMVcAATswr?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY4pMcMUYAUt3EH?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY4pMcsUYAYk-Oy?format=jpg&name=small)
The cat seems to be the smartest one in those pictures.
I like the cat's expression. :lol:
Quote from: Syt on May 30, 2020, 11:58:24 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/us-gun-owners-meme-feud?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp
QuoteUS gun owners aim firearms at their genitals to settle feud within community
Gun owners are taking photos of themselves pointing weapons at their genitals with the safety off – but the trend is far from new for gun enthusiasts
Gun owners are putting their metal where their manhoods are in a bizarre trend that sees men courting danger to prove how well they can manage a gun.
Those participating in the meme do so by pointing their gun at their genitals with the safety off, placing their finger over the trigger, and posting a photo of it on social media. And voilà, just like that – proof they are very manly.
It was first assumed that the gun owners were embracing the risky pose as a way of trolling progressives. The author and storyteller Dylan Park, who originally reposted the images in a viral tweet, summed that theory up as follows: "To everyone asking why, I'm not 100% sure. But I think the thinking here is 'Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people so we're going to point them at our dicks to prove how safe they are' or something," he said.
But, as detailed in an article by Vice, the trend started more than a year ago after fighting within the gun enthusiasts community, which eventually led to one faction trying to prove superior knowledge over the other. As the Facebook page Gun Owners Who Hate Gun Owners explained: "It's actually to upset people who think trigger discipline is important."
While it's not unusual to see gun owners commending others for their gun-safety knowledge online – using the safety catch, not pointing the gun at anything they don't want to shoot and not putting the finger on the trigger until they want to shoot – it appears that their vigilance has upset other hobbyists.
"The uninitiated zero in on dumb shit like [safety] because it's their entire knowledge base. It's the only thing they understand," said the moderator of a Facebook group named Shit Gun Normos Say (normo being a word pejoratively applied to people who stick to rules or norms with fervor).
"Congratulating people for keeping their finger in the right place is like congratulating somebody for not wrapping their seatbelt around their neck, or for not shitting their pants in public," the moderator added in a confounding explanation that simultaneously manages to make light of practicing safety precautions while joking about how stupid it would be to brag about not wearing a seatbelt.
By this logic, those who put themselves in the most dangerous position are the only ones who can really prove how brave they are. Just think about it like cycling through a red traffic light at an intersection with no handlebars, or setting your house on fire just to prove you can get out. It certainly is one way of looking at the world.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY4pMcMVcAATswr?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY4pMcMUYAUt3EH?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY4pMcsUYAYk-Oy?format=jpg&name=small)
The cat seems to be the smartest one in those pictures.
I dont know what this is.
That cat. :lmfao: I hope it's not shopped.
I like that he has the high visibility vest on, but the helmet lies unused? Is safety a dirty word?
In 40% of American households, the cat is the smarter resident. 60% of households either have no cat or a very lazy cat.
I don't do this.
Quote from: derspiess on May 30, 2020, 05:19:55 PM
I don't do this.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
The picture with the cat is best representation of the Trump era to date.
Before: yes or no question. Do you know how to crop a quote?
Well...um...I guess good luck with that gun owners.
Wtf is a normo? Everyone knows the word is normie. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 30, 2020, 09:30:08 PM
Wtf is a normo? Everyone knows the word is normie. :rolleyes:
Gun culture has their own lingo I guess.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 30, 2020, 09:30:08 PM
Wtf is a normo? Everyone knows the word is normie. :rolleyes:
No idea.
I've encountered the "safety is for pussies" mindset before. Usually in places where quite a few workers were missing appendages. And even very few of those would their dicks on the line.
A consequence of pointless gun ownership, someone fires a gun in a random direction?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-60098840 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-60098840)
Quote
Georgia Shooting: British man Matthew Willson shot through wall
Matthew Willson had been visiting his girlfriend when he was shot, according to US police
An English astrophysicist was killed by a stray bullet that travelled through a wall and hit him in his bed, US authorities have said.
Dr Matthew Willson, 31, from Chertsey, Surrey, was found with a single gunshot wound to the head.
Police were called to an apartment in Brookhaven, Atlanta, at 02:00 local time (07:00 GMT) last Sunday.
Sgt Jake Kissel, from the Brookhaven Police Department, said the shooting was believed to have been a random act.
There have been no arrests so far.
'Tragic'
Sgt Kissel said the stray bullet that hit Dr Willson travelled less than 100 yards (91m) and entered through an exterior wall of the apartment.
"The two apartment complexes where the gunfire took place and where Matthew was staying, they're separated by a patch of woods, so they back up to each other," he said.
"We're saying it's the reckless discharge of firearms from one apartment complex and the stray bullet travelled through the woods and entered his apartment."
News articles have got to stop saying just Georgia when they mean the US state
Quote from: Tyr on January 22, 2022, 04:36:44 PM
News articles have got to stop saying just Georgia when they mean the US state
I think that "US authorities said" should have tipped you off as to which Georgia was meant, if "Atlanta" didn't give it away.
https://www.salon.com/2022/01/24/wisconsin-pass-bill-allowing-some-high-school-students-to-bring-a-to-campus/
QuoteWisconsin Republicans pass bill allowing some high school students to bring a gun to campus
The GOP-backed bill comes amid a national upsurge in gun violence
Wisconsin Republicans just passed a spate of gun rights measures that include lowering the state's concealed carry age requirement from 21 to 18, effectively allowing high school students to carry firearms on school grounds.
The decision was approved by the state assembly last Thursday as part of an ongoing Second Amendment push by the lower chamber's GOP majority.
"If you're old enough to fight for your country, [if] you're old enough to sign contracts, if you're old enough to decide who the president of the United States is, we think you're old enough to be responsible with your rights and to be able to protect yourself," Republican Rep. Shae Sortwell of Gibson, the bill's chief sponsor, said last week.
Guns are typically banned on school property in Wisconsin, but according to The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, one of the measures would do away with this convention. The bills would also allow Wisconsinites with concealed carry licenses to bring firearms into churches as well as permit out-of-staters with a concealed carry license to bring guns into the Badger State, according to the Associated Press.
Wisconsin Democrats, for their part, have railed against the legislative package amid the national uptick in gun violence. The Milwaukee Homicide Review Commission recorded a total of 857 nonfatal shootings in 2021 – about 93% more than that of 2019.
"Guns do not belong anywhere in or near schools," said Democratic state Rep. Deb Andraca. "Collectively, what these bills would do, they would allow high school seniors to carry a loaded gun in the car to school grounds [and] at school events."
Democratic state Rep. Lisa Subeck likewise questioned whether guns "make people feel safer," saying, "In this state, you can get a concealed carry permit and never once get any hands-on firing a gun and that's terrifying."
Jeri Bonavia, executive director of Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort (WAVE), a grassroots organization aimed at curtailing gun violence, has also opposed the bills, suggesting that they flout federal law around gun sales.
Because no one under 21 is allowed to legally purchase a firearm from a federally licensed gun dealer, Bonavia told an NBC Chicago affiliate, "this age group that they're talking about would likely need to be purchasing their gun from the gray market, from private sellers," adding: "Which means that there would be no background check conducted on those purchases."
All of the measures were passed in the Assembly with a voice vote, sending the package to the Wisconsin Senate. If the state Senate approves, the package will need to be signed by Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers, a Democrat who is likely to veto the measures. While the governor has not directly commented on the package, in the past he's pushed for gun control measures, such as universal background checks and red flag laws.
"What could possibly go wrong?"