That's all I got.
God really hates Haiti
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftallulahbankhead.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F03%2Fbarbarabush.jpg&hash=e45416816db657a198926e7ae523c9083212032f)
So many of the people in the city here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this could work out very well for them.
Yikes, if the Presidential Palace and most government buildings and churches collapsed, than I don't have much hope for the average tin shack. The casualties must be massive.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6985798.ece
QuoteForeign Staff
From The Times
January 13, 2010
Thousands feared dead as huge earthquake destroys Haiti presidential palace
Thousands of people were feared dead after a powerful earthquake measuring 7.0 rocked the impoverished Caribbean nation of Haiti last night, toppling buildings and causing widespread damage and panic.
Haitian television reported that the presidential palace, many government buildings and a cathedral, along with roads and bridges, lay in ruins.
Communications were widely disrupted, making it impossible to get a clear picture of the damage as violent aftershocks shook the country, where many buildings are flimsy. Electricity was lost in some places.
Karel Zelenka, a Catholic Relief Services representative in the capital, Port-au-Prince, told American colleagues before the phone line went dead that "there must be thousands of people dead".
Sara Fajardo, a spokeswoman for the aid group, based in Maryland, said: "He reported that it was just total disaster and chaos, that there were clouds of dust surrounding Port-au-Prince."
A tsunami alert for the Caribbean region was issued immediately after the earthquake struck at 9.53pm GMT. Minutes after the initial tremor, there were two aftershocks, measuring 5.9 and 5.5.
"I think it's really a catastrophe of major proportions," said Raymond Joseph, Haitian Ambassador to the United States. The US Geological Survey said that the epicentre of the earthquake was 16km (10 miles) from Port-au-Prince, which has a population of 2.5 million.
Joseph Delva, a reporter in Pétionville, an affluent suburb, said that one three-storey building was toppled and a tractor was at the scene trying to dig out victims.
"Everything started shaking, people were screaming, houses started collapsing . . . it's total chaos," he said.
Tom Jordan, an earthquake expert at the University of Southern California, said that the earthquake's size and proximity to the capital had probably caused widespread casualties. "It's going to be a real killer," he said.
Henry Bahn, a US Department of Agriculture official visiting Port-au-Prince, said that he was walking to his hotel room when the ground began to shake.
"I just held on and bounced across the wall," he said. "I just heard a tremendous amount of noise and shouting and screaming in the distance. The sky is just grey with dust."
Mr Bahn said there were rocks strewn about and he saw a ravine where several homes had stood: "It's just full of collapsed walls and rubble and barbed wire."
In Thomassin, just outside Port-au-Prince, Alain Denis said that neighbours had told him that the only road to the capital had been cut and that the phones were all dead.
President Obama said the United States stood ready to help.
"My thoughts and prayers go out to those who have been affected by this earthquake," he said. "We are closely monitoring the situation and we stand ready to assist the people of Haiti."
Since I have recently pledged to have a more sunny disposition, and not laugh at the misfortune of others, there is really not much to comment on here.
Seems like a good opportunity for a construction industry in need of work.
Swell, more Haitians washing up on Floridian shores.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2010, 11:06:40 PM
Swell, more Haitians washing up on Floridian shores.
What are you worried about you'll retire and stay in Maryland.
we need to stop global warming
Quote from: katmai on January 12, 2010, 11:07:54 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2010, 11:06:40 PM
Swell, more Haitians washing up on Floridian shores.
What are you worried about you'll retire and stay in Maryland.
Too hot. Try Vermont.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 05:58:10 AM
Too hot. Try Vermont.
:huh: Dude, no. Old people are cold all the time.
Looks like the bodies of the dead and injured are just stacked up in the street. It's hard to tell the scale of the damage because I haven't seen an aerial view (airports control tower was damaged), but I wouldn't be surprised if the deaths toped 10k in this one. :(
Now would be a good opportunity to put up some mass apartment blocks over the ruined shanty towns.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2010, 11:06:40 PM
Swell, more Haitians washing up on Floridian shores.
:huh: They all come here.
Oh, it was Haiti, all I saw was an earthquake somewhere on the news and was worried it might have been a real country which matters.
So.
err...
What more is there to say. Earthquakes bad.
Saw the headline "Port au Prince Destroyed" & my first thought was-- how would you know? :unsure:
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2010, 07:19:03 AM
Oh, it was Haiti, all I saw was an earthquake somewhere on the news and was worried it might have been a real country which matters.
So.
err...
What more is there to say. Earthquakes bad.
:huh: Strange way to look at it; an Earthquake in a real country wouldn't do much damage unless it was a once in the century 8.something. Earthquake in Hati or anyother third world disaster means thousands dead.
7.0 can do massive damage anywhere. A 6.8 in Japan in 95 killed over 6000 people.
Not good, that will be a lot of zombies
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2010, 07:19:03 AM
Oh, it was Haiti, all I saw was an earthquake somewhere on the news and was worried it might have been a real country which matters.
So.
err...
What more is there to say. Earthquakes bad.
:huh: Strange way to look at it; an Earthquake in a real country wouldn't do much damage unless it was a once in the century 8.something. Earthquake in Hati or anyother third world disaster means thousands dead.
What I think Tyr was hinting at was that no one cares if a couple of thousand mud people die in a natural disaster (especially since there's plenty more where that came from), while it's a big problem if educated people with souls bite the big one.
Quote from: Tamas on January 13, 2010, 05:17:31 AM
we need to stop global warming
First the tsunami in Asia, then this, Al Gore was right all the time :(
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 11:38:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2010, 07:19:03 AM
Oh, it was Haiti, all I saw was an earthquake somewhere on the news and was worried it might have been a real country which matters.
So.
err...
What more is there to say. Earthquakes bad.
:huh: Strange way to look at it; an Earthquake in a real country wouldn't do much damage unless it was a once in the century 8.something. Earthquake in Hati or anyother third world disaster means thousands dead.
What I think Tyr was hinting at was that no one cares if a couple of thousand mud people die in a natural disaster (especially since there's plenty more where that came from), while it's a big problem if educated people with souls bite the big one.
Ah, but we expect vile racism from you, not from Tyr.
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 11:38:04 AMmud people
:huh:
They are already incredibly desperate. If anything, a normal person would feel even worse for them. Even if Haiti has made a lot of poor decisions, I don't think any nation deserves to be leveled with such a devastating earthquake.
Also, you are a fantastically racist fuck and I hope you die in a fire.
Let's send Quee to Haiti to save the negros from themselves.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 11:50:48 AM
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 11:38:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2010, 07:19:03 AM
Oh, it was Haiti, all I saw was an earthquake somewhere on the news and was worried it might have been a real country which matters.
So.
err...
What more is there to say. Earthquakes bad.
:huh: Strange way to look at it; an Earthquake in a real country wouldn't do much damage unless it was a once in the century 8.something. Earthquake in Hati or anyother third world disaster means thousands dead.
What I think Tyr was hinting at was that no one cares if a couple of thousand mud people die in a natural disaster (especially since there's plenty more where that came from), while it's a big problem if educated people with souls bite the big one.
Ah, but we expect vile racism from you, not from Tyr.
Is it really racism to not care about a bunch of dead third worlders, or is it that you're just so used to not thinking about it that you don't identify it as racism until someone like me vocalizes it?
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 11:38:04 AMmud people
:huh:
They are already incredibly desperate. If anything, a normal person would feel even worse for them. Even if Haiti has made a lot of poor decisions, I don't think any nation deserves to be leveled with such a devastating earthquake.
Also, you are a fantastically racist fuck and I hope you die in a fire.
So other than my use of racist nomenclature when I stipulated my hypothesis, how is what I said racist?
Most people don't care about dead third worlders, and still don't consider themselves racist, you don't need to look longer than this board.
As for wishing for my death, I think that makes you a pretty horrible person in your own right, but since you feel a sense of moral superiority when you make that judgement you probably don't even see it. :hug:
I feel kinda bad about making a joke post earlier, as apparently the level of destruction there is quite phenomenal. :(
You guys are acting like somehow Haitians choose to be Haitians. Or be affected by an earthquake. Or that thousands of people didn't just die.
Quote
So other than my use of racist nomenclature when I stipulated my hypothesis, how is what I said racist?
:lmfao:
So other than the fact that I'm a racist, how am I a racist?!Quote
you don't need to look longer than this board.
We are usually a callous bunch, but I think most people have their limits. Even Neil was pissed off during the Beslan massacre, for instance.
Quote
As for wishing for my death, I think that makes you a pretty horrible person in your own right, but since you feel a sense of moral superiority when you make that judgement you probably don't even see it.
Actually, I think dying in a fire is probably preferable to dying with hundreds of your friends and family in an earthquake. I'm better than you because I care if innocents are affected, even if they are Scandinavians. :)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 06:06:46 AM
Looks like the bodies of the dead and injured are just stacked up in the street. It's hard to tell the scale of the damage because I haven't seen an aerial view (airports control tower was damaged), but I wouldn't be surprised if the deaths toped 10k in this one. :(
gov' says 100 000 so far.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 13, 2010, 06:59:41 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2010, 11:06:40 PM
Swell, more Haitians washing up on Floridian shores.
:huh: They all come here.
only the poor, the uneducated, the singers&the writers (wich is the same really). The rest will go to Florida, then move up to New York.
Quote from: viper37 on January 13, 2010, 01:41:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 06:06:46 AM
Looks like the bodies of the dead and injured are just stacked up in the street. It's hard to tell the scale of the damage because I haven't seen an aerial view (airports control tower was damaged), but I wouldn't be surprised if the deaths toped 10k in this one. :(
gov' says 100 000 so far.
JESUS CHRIST! How the fuck is that possible in such a tiny country?
Especially sad as Haiti has seen the first half decade of sanity and growth in a long, long time. (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/09/pdf/haiti_report.pdf)
IIRC there was an Economist Podcast about the danger of mudslides and earthquakes to Haiti's growth sometime last year, seems rather prescient in retrospect.
The sad thing is that Slargos is probably right. If this was London or Paris there would be a lot more shock and awe. If it was New York there would be war declared on God. Haiti? None of us is going to lose sleep over it. Sad but true. This thread will be dead by the weekend.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Also, you are a fantastically racist fuck and I hope you die in a fire.
:lol: Way to show that you're better than him.
Quote from: Josephus on January 13, 2010, 01:45:01 PM
The sad thing is that Slargos is probably right. If this was London or Paris there would be a lot more shock and awe. If it was New York there would be war declared on God. Haiti? None of us is going to lose sleep over it. Sad but true. This thread will be dead by the weekend.
:huh:
How long did the Tsunami thread last on the old board?
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2010, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Also, you are a fantastically racist fuck and I hope you die in a fire.
:lol: Way to show that you're better than him.
:Embarrass:
I pulled a Martinus. How about "I hope you realize how much of an idiot you are at some point in your life?"
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 13, 2010, 01:45:01 PM
The sad thing is that Slargos is probably right. If this was London or Paris there would be a lot more shock and awe. If it was New York there would be war declared on God. Haiti? None of us is going to lose sleep over it. Sad but true. This thread will be dead by the weekend.
:huh:
How long did the Tsunami thread last on the old board?
The 2004 tsunami got press in Sweden because 500 Swedes died. No one cared about 200k people in Aceh or wherever.
There exists today technology to determine years in advance where the next earthquakes will hit and also get short term warning.
I saw that Obama had said we were standing by prepared to do whatever we could do to help. I thought just get our asses over there already!
I don't know how other news sites are doing but Haiti is pretty much the topic of the top 3rd of yahoo news.
Quote from: garbon on January 13, 2010, 02:21:58 PM
I saw that Obama had said we were standing by prepared to do whatever we could do to help. I thought just get our asses over there already!
QuoteThe U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, USS Carl Vinson, is under way and expected to arrive off the coast of Haiti Thursday. Additional U.S. Navy ships are under way to Haiti, a statement from the U.S. Southern Command said.
Good. :)
You cannot hug a child with nuclear weapons (or an aircraft carrier).
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 13, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
You cannot hug a child with nuclear weapons (or an aircraft carrier).
But you can make him feel warm and toastie. :)
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 13, 2010, 02:34:29 PM
QuoteThe U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, USS Carl Vinson, is under way and expected to arrive off the coast of Haiti Thursday. Additional U.S. Navy ships are under way to Haiti, a statement from the U.S. Southern Command said.
We shall: bomb the fault line out of existence! :showoff:
Timmy is slow, so let me post this for him: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100113/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_haiti_earthquake
QuoteObama promises all-out relief effort in Haiti
By MATTHEW LEE and JULIE PACE, Associated Press Writers Matthew Lee And Julie Pace, Associated Press Writers – 7 mins ago
WASHINGTON – U.S. officials are laying out a massive military response to the Haiti earthquake, saying that ships, helicopters, transport planes and a 2,000-member Marine unit are either on the way or likely to begin moving soon.
Gen. Douglas Fraser, head of U.S. Southern Command, said Wednesday that one of the U.S. Navy's large amphibious ships will likely head to Haiti with a Marine expeditionary unit aboard. Fraser said other U.S. military forces are on alert, including a brigade, which includes about 3,500 troops.
Fraser said during a news conference with other U.S. officials that the Pentagon is "seriously looking at" sending thousands of Marines to assist with disaster relief efforts and security in Haiti.
President Barack Obama promised earlier Wednesday to mount an all-out rescue and humanitarian effort to help the people of Haiti overcome a "cruel and incomprehensible" tragedy."
The president said the relief effort is gearing up even as the U.S. government is working to account for Americans who were on the island nation when the disaster struck late Tuesday afternoon.
The initial contingent of 2,000 Marines could be deployed to the quake-ravaged country within the next few days to either help with emergency aid distribution or enforce law in order in conjunction with U.N. peacekeepers already there, Fraser said.
The general said that a U.S. aircraft carrier, the USS Carl Vinson, is also heading from Norfolk, Va., to the area and should arrive Thursday afternoon.
The dispatched troops would aim to keep the peace in the event of post-disaster unrest as part of a larger international effort overseen by the United Nations, whose peacekeeping operation headquarters was destroyed in the quake. About 100 U.N. personnel are believed to be trapped in the ruins of he building.
"It's going to be our assessments that are going to determine, in conjunction with (the U.N. mission) and the other international partners who are there, how best to deal with any security situations that come up," Fraser said.
"We don't know precisely what the situation is on the ground," he added. "So we're leaning forward to provide as much as capability as quickly as we can to respond to whatever the need is when we get there."
More immediately, Fraser's Miami-based Southern Command is also dispatching a team of 30 people to Haiti to support relief efforts in the aftermath of the earthquake and make way for additional military aid.
Officials said two C-130 aircraft were departing Wednesday for Haiti with the team of military engineers, operational planners, communications specialists and a command and control group. The Air Force is sending people to provide air traffic control and operations at the Port-au-Prince airport.
Coast Guard helicopters early Wednesday evacuated four injured U.S. Embassy personnel to a hospital at the Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Southcom did not release their names.
Fraser said the military is also sending units to get Port-au-Prince's airport secured and operating again. The airport is considered "operational," he said, but the facility's tower and other operations were damaged.
Fraser appeared with U.S. Agency for International Development administrator Rajiv Shah, the official named by Obama to coordinate American efforts in Haiti.
The president called upon all nations to join in helping stricken Haitians.
Obama spoke Wednesday in the White House Diplomatic Reception Room. Later, spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters the president had no plans to go to Haiti.
The president, who has been involved in ensuring a quick response since Tuesday night, said in a statement from the White House Diplomatic Reception Room that one of the government's top priorities is to quickly locate U.S. embassy employees and their families, as well as all other American citizens living and working in Haiti. He urged Americans trying to locate family members to contact the State Department at 1-888-407-4747.
Obama sought to show a swift and united disaster response with the United States as an assertive leader, but he said the effort must be an international one. "We are reminded of the common humanity that we all share," he said, with Vice President Joe Biden at his side.
The president outlined a series of steps to help the Haitian people and said the U.S. commitment to its hemispheric neighbor will be unwavering.
"We have to be there for them in their hour of need," the president said.
Obama adjusted his Wednesday schedule, canceling a jobs event in Maryland to better monitor the situation in Haiti.
Obama encouraged Americans who want to help to go to http://www.whitehouse.gov to find options for contributing to the aid effort.
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 01:27:02 PM
...
As for wishing for my death, I think that makes you a pretty horrible person in your own right, but since you feel a sense of moral superiority when you make that judgement you probably don't even see it. :hug:
Slargos and I are also highly moral individuals - we just happen to not shirk from unpleasant truths. Haiti was a crummy mess before this latest disaster, is an even crummier mess now, and will remain a crummy mess after the worst of this is behind them.
He and I simply aknowledge that fact rather than trying to make ourselves feel good about our sudden surge of instant empathy towards those poor people.
G.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:44:54 PM
JESUS CHRIST! How the fuck is that possible in such a tiny country?
Especially sad as Haiti has seen the first half decade of sanity and growth in a long, long time. (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/09/pdf/haiti_report.pdf)
IIRC there was an Economist Podcast about the danger of mudslides and earthquakes to Haiti's growth sometime last year, seems rather prescient in retrospect.
Its like they've decided to take advantage of this natural disaster to officially register the deaths of a few thousand dead by other means.
Nah. Too North Korea.
I have heard Haiti is horribly crowded though, many of its problems are related to over population and a destroyed environment.
I didn't mean what I said here at all at face value.
I just don't have much to say on this, it isn't being reported very heavily (though yeah, it definatly would be if it was in a western country) and earthquakes are of course bad so there's nothing that can be said.
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2010, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 13, 2010, 01:45:01 PM
The sad thing is that Slargos is probably right. If this was London or Paris there would be a lot more shock and awe. If it was New York there would be war declared on God. Haiti? None of us is going to lose sleep over it. Sad but true. This thread will be dead by the weekend.
:huh:
How long did the Tsunami thread last on the old board?
The 2004 tsunami got press in Sweden because 500 Swedes died. No one cared about 200k people in Aceh or wherever.
Virtually no Americans died there and it was all over our news for weeks.
Slargos - I certainly care about the fate of the 3rd world and think about people there, even when there's not a disaster in the news.
The tsunami got more coverage because while earthquakes happen all the time, it's not often masses of people die from unusually heavy surf.
QuoteU.S. officials are laying out a massive military response to the Haiti earthquake, saying that ships, helicopters, transport planes and a 2,000-member Marine unit are either on the way or likely to begin moving soon.
Their government's already better than Burma. At least they're not refusing aid because of Imperialist conspiracy theories
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2010, 05:43:45 PM
it isn't being reported very heavily
And yet new stories about Haiti are currently dominating most major American news websites.
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2010, 05:43:45 PM
I just don't have much to say on this, it isn't being reported very heavily (though yeah, it definatly would be if it was in a western country)
Euros:Raciss? :(
QuoteTelevangelist Pat Robertson said Wednesday that earthquake-ravaged Haiti has been "cursed" by a "pact to the devil."
"Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it," he said on Christian Broadcasting Network's "The 700 Club." "They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, we will serve you if you'll get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, okay it's a deal."
Robertson said that "ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other" and he contrasted Haiti with its neighbor, the Dominican Republic.
"That island of Hispaniola is one island. It is cut down the middle; on the one side is Haiti on the other is the Dominican Republic," he said. "Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, etc. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to god and out of this tragedy I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now we are helping the suffering people and the suffering is unimaginable."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/pat-robertson-haiti-curse_n_422099.html
Goddamned Republican DOUCHEBAG.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:44:54 PM
JESUS CHRIST! How the fuck is that possible in such a tiny country?
A hefty chunk of the population lived in the city. And their shacks were built in a way that ensured that a slide would take immense amounts of houses with it.
Also, not only did the quake hit at a time when many people were home, but more importantly, the epicenter was almost right on top of the city, and at a very shallow level (barely 6 miles under). At that range, a 7.0 quake is extremely dangerous, even for modern construction.
Combined with the shoddy or old construction of many buildings, the result is clear: MASSIVE damage to human lives and property. It's like a 9.0 quake on an advanced city.
In fact, I'd be surprised if the death toll is just 100,000. I fear it may fall more in the 300,000 range. Their buildings basically imploded - with them inside. And those who didn't got their buldings collapse on top of them had trouble leaving, because there were walls and houses falling all over the streets.
Even the Presidential Palace, the Cathedral, Ministerial buildings, Hospitals, Headquarters... - all fell. Their head of State is homeless, the Archbishop is entombed under tons of debris. Dead people fill the streets, survivors pray to God in the streets. Who knows how many are buried? There is no realistic hope of rescuing them.
This is also like a modern reconstruction of the way things happened in ancient times when an earthquake hit - now we may understand why these calamities were considered divine punishments and people described them in such a scary way. For them, a quake was truly the End of everything they knew - all was destroyed.
With one difference - the web remained in service. Appearently, it has become stronger than nature.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2010, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 13, 2010, 01:45:01 PM
The sad thing is that Slargos is probably right. If this was London or Paris there would be a lot more shock and awe. If it was New York there would be war declared on God. Haiti? None of us is going to lose sleep over it. Sad but true. This thread will be dead by the weekend.
:huh:
How long did the Tsunami thread last on the old board?
The 2004 tsunami got press in Sweden because 500 Swedes died. No one cared about 200k people in Aceh or wherever.
Virtually no Americans died there and it was all over our news for weeks.
Slargos - I certainly care about the fate of the 3rd world and think about people there, even when there's not a disaster in the news.
I have no reason to doubt you, Timmay. A person who chooses to live in a totally alien culture is likely a lot more invested in the goings on of life outside their little bubble, but I think you're not among the majority in this.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:39:13 PM
You guys are acting like somehow Haitians choose to be Haitians. Or be affected by an earthquake. Or that thousands of people didn't just die.
Quote
So other than my use of racist nomenclature when I stipulated my hypothesis, how is what I said racist?
:lmfao:
So other than the fact that I'm a racist, how am I a racist?!
Quote
you don't need to look longer than this board.
We are usually a callous bunch, but I think most people have their limits. Even Neil was pissed off during the Beslan massacre, for instance.
Quote
As for wishing for my death, I think that makes you a pretty horrible person in your own right, but since you feel a sense of moral superiority when you make that judgement you probably don't even see it.
Actually, I think dying in a fire is probably preferable to dying with hundreds of your friends and family in an earthquake. I'm better than you because I care if innocents are affected, even if they are Scandinavians. :)
Come on, Queeq, I know you're not stupid. A bit slow, yes, but not stupid.
"The man on the street doesn't care if a hundred thousand third worlders die in a natural disaster" is a racist statement how exactly? And how is it racist to be oblivious to the suffering of third worlders? The ongoing genocide against white South Africans doesn't get much press, are we racist against them aswell?
As for your feelings towards my person, I don't give a shit, though I feel deeply sorry for you. Your bigotry may be of a different flavour, but it's still bigotry.
Stay classy, Slargos.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 13, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
Stay classy, Slargos.
:lol:
Seriously. I'm curious to hear how not caring about the fates of people on the other side of the globe constitutes racism.
By the way, I read that the port collapsed and cargo ships can't dock, that's gonna make providing supplies difficult.
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 13, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
Stay classy, Slargos.
:lol:
Seriously. I'm curious to hear how not caring about the fates of people on the other side of the globe constitutes racism.
Maybe when you phrase it thusly you retarded ass
QuoteWhat I think Tyr was hinting at was that no one cares if a couple of thousand mud people die in a natural disaster (especially since there's plenty more where that came from), while it's a big problem if educated people with souls bite the big one.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 13, 2010, 06:57:13 PM
With one difference - the web remained in service. Appearently, it has become stronger than nature.
Earthquakes can't take out satellites. Hopefully Gaia doesn't control solar flares.
Quote from: katmai on January 13, 2010, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 13, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
Stay classy, Slargos.
:lol:
Seriously. I'm curious to hear how not caring about the fates of people on the other side of the globe constitutes racism.
Maybe when you phrase it thusly you retarded ass
QuoteWhat I think Tyr was hinting at was that no one cares if a couple of thousand mud people die in a natural disaster (especially since there's plenty more where that came from), while it's a big problem if educated people with souls bite the big one.
:lol:
Yeah, I never exaggerate for effect. :homestar:
CNN.com has some "good" videos.
One's an interview with a UT graduate and at the end Wolf asks him if from his observations whether he thinks the Prime Minister's estimate is credible, and he said that was a minimum that it could be multiple hundreds of thousands. :(
Lets hope it looks worse than it is.
Quote from: Fireblade on January 13, 2010, 06:51:13 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/pat-robertson-haiti-curse_n_422099.html
Goddamned Republican televangelist DOUCHEBAG.
Fixed. :)
Robertson and his ilk use stuff like this to get attention. If he had just said "those poor Haitians, I'm praying for them" then he wouldn't have generated a news story that will generate more interest in him and possibly result in more donations from lunatics. He's nothing but a businessman who sells air to gullible people. I would be shocked if the guy actually believes in God.
Apparently there's only one hospital left standing in Port-au-Prince.
Also the prison was destroyed so the survivors escaped.
Quote from: Caliga on January 13, 2010, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: Fireblade on January 13, 2010, 06:51:13 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/pat-robertson-haiti-curse_n_422099.html
Goddamned Republican televangelist DOUCHEBAG.
Fixed. :)
Robertson and his ilk use stuff like this to get attention. If he had just said "those poor Haitians, I'm praying for them" then he wouldn't have generated a news story that will generate more interest in him and possibly result in more donations from lunatics. He's nothing but a businessman who sells air to gullible people. I would be shocked if the guy actually believes in God.
Yeah. I already see the outrage on the Facebook. The man was all but jumping up and down screaming, "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" for godsakes.
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 13, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
Stay classy, Slargos.
:lol:
Seriously. I'm curious to hear how not caring about the fates of people on the other side of the globe constitutes racism.
I just want to point out that whilst I agreed with Slargos' original premise that ultimately the world doesn't give as much of a shit as if the same earthquake happens in New York or London; I do want to distance myself from everything else Slargos has said in this and probably other threads.
Thank you.
:ph34r:
I love when people pat themselves on the back for just throwing up their hands and declaring the blatantly obvious: "This is the status quo!"
No shit, people in North America and Europe would care more if this happened in a developed country. :hmm: This is not a very insightful or helpful contribution.
And I do believe that the effort to attain some level of empathy for the suffering of even "third world" people is not reducible an exercise in PC guilt tripping or whatever else the self-declared realists of the privileged world would call it.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:39:13 PM
Even Neil was pissed off during the Beslan massacre, for instance.
Pseudo-whites were being killed by Islamiacs.
Besides, it's hard to feel for people who are so much less than me.
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2010, 01:53:48 PM
No one cared about 200k people in Aceh or wherever.
The CIA did.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 13, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
You cannot hug a child with nuclear weapons (or an aircraft carrier).
No, but you can generate 400,000+ gallons of potable water a day with one, which is what they need immediately.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 13, 2010, 09:16:02 PM
I love when people pat themselves on the back for just throwing up their hands and declaring the blatantly obvious: "This is the status quo!"
No shit, people in North America and Europe would care more if this happened in a developed country. :hmm: This is not a very insightful or helpful contribution.
And I do believe that the effort to attain some level of empathy for the suffering of even "third world" people is not reducible an exercise in PC guilt tripping or whatever else the self-declared realists of the privileged world would call it.
:yes:
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 13, 2010, 09:16:02 PM
I love when people pat themselves on the back for just throwing up their hands and declaring the blatantly obvious: "This is the status quo!"
No shit, people in North America and Europe would care more if this happened in a developed country. :hmm: This is not a very insightful or helpful contribution.
And I do believe that the effort to attain some level of empathy for the suffering of even "third world" people is not reducible an exercise in PC guilt tripping or whatever else the self-declared realists of the privileged world would call it.
This'll turn out to be as big, if not bigger, an international relief operation than the Tsunami.
This will be the world's finest humanitarian hour.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:05:38 PM
This'll turn out to be as big, if not bigger, an international relief operation than the Tsunami.
This will be the world's finest humanitarian hour.
And are you doing anything to help?
14 UN relief workers confirmed dead. 150 more mission, including the mission director.
It's like starting from scratch. There's nobody on the ground to coordinate. Infrastructure is just gone.
Quote from: katmai on January 13, 2010, 10:06:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:05:38 PM
This'll turn out to be as big, if not bigger, an international relief operation than the Tsunami.
This will be the world's finest humanitarian hour.
And are you doing anything to help?
Yes.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:07:17 PM
14 UN relief workers confirmed dead. 150 more mission, including the mission director.
It's like starting from scratch. There's nobody on the ground to coordinate. Infrastructure is just gone.
Heard the Archbishop had died as well. I'm sure Marti is cheering, but...
Quote from: katmai on January 13, 2010, 10:10:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:07:17 PM
14 UN relief workers confirmed dead. 150 more mission, including the mission director.
It's like starting from scratch. There's nobody on the ground to coordinate. Infrastructure is just gone.
Heard the Archbishop had died as well. I'm sure Marti is cheering, but...
The Parliament building collapsed as well and the President of the Senate is presumed dead.
What a cluster fuck, it seems there are no hospitals left that are structurally sound in Port-au-Prince, doctors without borders are basically doing operations in a parking lot.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34843404/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
QuoteBy Robert Bazell
Chief science and health correspondent
NBC News
updated 12:09 p.m. PT, Wed., Jan. 13, 2010
Robert Bazell
Chief science and health correspondent
Even before the 7.0 earthquake that is believed to have killed thousands of people and crushed countless buildings, the medical infrastructure in Haiti was already almost nonexistent.
While the primary focus of the next 72 hours is rescue and saving lives, officials say, aid workers are facing countless critical medical needs for the millions who have been affected by the widespread destruction.
NBC's Chief Science and Health Correspondent Robert Bazell, who has reported extensively from Haiti on the AIDS epidemic and other infectious disease outbreaks, is heading to the country tonight to cover the ongoing rescue and recovery for "NBC Nightly News." Bazell offers an overview of the health crisis facing the devastated country. Read on for more.
What are the immediate medical concerns facing rescue workers?
Today we learned from Doctors Without Borders that there are no hospitals remaining in Port-au-Prince. All hospitals are either collapsed or abandoned, including the three run by the aid group.
According to Doctors Without Borders, there are enormous lines of people outside of these closed facilities, many with severe injuries, including fractured bones and crushed skulls waiting for treatment. But there's no medical treatment happening because the area has absolutely no facilities. Even before, the hospitals that existed had almost nothing that we would consider an intensive care unit. And Haiti has no system of frontline responders to rescue and revive people in emergencies.
The people from DWB said even trying to set up new facilities during the night and continuing into the day has been very difficult because there's enormous amounts of rubble on the road — and when there's rubble there are either injured people or dead bodies. So, it's a particularly dangerous situation.
Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere. In fact, it's the fourth poorest in the entire world, with 85 percent of the population earning less than $1 a day.
All this combines to make what was a health nightmare already very bad.
Deadly diseases can develop in a few days without access to clean water or sanitation. What is the situation in the country?
Fewer than one-third of the population has access to sanitation facilities. Fewer than half have access to clean drinking water. There is enormous burden of diarrheal illnesses in the country, anyway.
In addition to that, malaria is very prevalent and so is starvation because of the poverty. You're starting with a situation where it couldn't be much worse for a crisis of this magnitude to strike, because the country has already been in an ongoing crisis for so long.
In the slums of Port-au-Prince, which is where most of the people live, open sewage exists. When you add that risk of infection to people with severe injuries and dead bodies, it becomes an almost unimaginably difficult situation.
These quake refugees will also likely face an increased risk of dengue fever and measles, both already problems there.
Although aid is starting to come in, it will take a while to reach victims. A lot of people won't survive in the meantime. Because Haiti already has about 450,000 people who are known to be infected with HIV, it's also very difficult to ensure the safety of blood transfusions.
Further down the road, Haitians will also likely suffer from secondary infections. With hospitals and clinics destroyed, people seeking help for broken bones and other survivable injuries will not be able to get help and will develop complications.
What will be the key medical focus in the immediate aftermath?
The focus is everything at once — to get people who are trapped out buildings at once, to get whatever first aid can be given to people who are injured, to get whatever treatment can be administered to as many people as possible.
Then, there's an added problem: Haiti has been very lawless for a long time. There are no reports of it yet in this disaster, but during the rescue efforts after hurricane Jeanne killed 3,000 people in 2004, aid workers were set upon by armed gangs, which are a constant presence in the country.
© 2010 msnbc.com Reprints
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:05:38 PM
This'll turn out to be as big, if not bigger, an international relief operation than the Tsunami.
This will be the world's finest humanitarian hour.
I hope so. I just took out my credit card :)
And I've got no idea what Mihali was saying.
Tim, thank you for the "uplifting and hopefull" article of hell on earth. I can only hope the best for them, but it seems it will only get worst before it gets any better.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:05:38 PM
This will be the world's finest humanitarian hour.
I think you're forgetting New Orleans
QuoteTrinidad and Tobago: Trinidad and Tobago has committed an immediate relief aid package of 6.3 million Trinidad and Tobago Dollars (1 million USD).[citation needed]
China: The People's Republic of China sent a 60-member rescue team (National Earthquake Disaster Emergency Rescue Team) following the quake. The team consists of rescuers, medical personnel, experts, and three search dogs. The team left the following day from Beijing.[97][98] Red Cross Society of China will also offer assistance to Haiti.[99] Liu Xiangyang is the Vice Leader of Chinese Int'l Search & Rescue Team.[100] According to Xinhua News Agency, China will also donate $1 million to Haiti.
Damn, I hope China doesn't go broke with that massive aid package! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Fireblade on January 14, 2010, 12:27:56 AM
QuoteTrinidad and Tobago: Trinidad and Tobago has committed an immediate relief aid package of 6.3 million Trinidad and Tobago Dollars (1 million USD).[citation needed]
China: The People's Republic of China sent a 60-member rescue team (National Earthquake Disaster Emergency Rescue Team) following the quake. The team consists of rescuers, medical personnel, experts, and three search dogs. The team left the following day from Beijing.[97][98] Red Cross Society of China will also offer assistance to Haiti.[99] Liu Xiangyang is the Vice Leader of Chinese Int'l Search & Rescue Team.[100] According to Xinhua News Agency, China will also donate $1 million to Haiti.
Damn, I hope China doesn't go broke with that massive aid package! :rolleyes:
According to a German news site Ted Turner will also dontae 1 million $. Germany will had over 1.5 million €.
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2010, 12:41:16 AM
Quote from: Fireblade on January 14, 2010, 12:27:56 AM
QuoteTrinidad and Tobago: Trinidad and Tobago has committed an immediate relief aid package of 6.3 million Trinidad and Tobago Dollars (1 million USD).[citation needed]
China: The People's Republic of China sent a 60-member rescue team (National Earthquake Disaster Emergency Rescue Team) following the quake. The team consists of rescuers, medical personnel, experts, and three search dogs. The team left the following day from Beijing.[97][98] Red Cross Society of China will also offer assistance to Haiti.[99] Liu Xiangyang is the Vice Leader of Chinese Int'l Search & Rescue Team.[100] According to Xinhua News Agency, China will also donate $1 million to Haiti.
Damn, I hope China doesn't go broke with that massive aid package! :rolleyes:
According to a German news site Ted Turner will also dontae 1 million $. Germany will had over 1.5 million €.
Denmark is donating 1.3 million € as immediately aid, more will follow soon...
Quote from: Fireblade on January 14, 2010, 12:27:56 AM
Damn, I hope China doesn't go broke with that massive aid package! :rolleyes:
Haiti recognizes Taiwan instead of Beijing, I'm surprised they got anything
1st person account by the AP man on the scene. :(
QuoteIn Haiti, Tragedy, a Way of Life, Is Redefined
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/13/world/AP-CB-Surviving-Haiti.html?_r=1
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 13, 2010
Filed at 9:50 p.m. ET
EDITOR'S NOTE -- Jonathan M. Katz is The Associated Press' correspondent in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. He filed this first-person account of the moments after Tuesday's earthquake, which has redefined tragedy for a nation that knows it all too well.
------
PETIONVILLE, Haiti (AP) -- I was sitting on my bed surfing the Internet when I noticed silence, followed by a weird groaning sound. I figured it was a passing water truck. But funny, I thought -- sounds more like an earthquake.
The house started shaking. Then it really started shaking. I walked out of my room and kneeled slowly to the undulating floor, laptop in hand, as windows, two years' worth of Haitian art and a picture of my grandfather smashed around me.
I was not hurt. Not only that, the staircase in the house where I live and work, while completely invisible behind a choking white cloud of drywall and dust, was still standing. I yelled out for Evens, the AP's all-in-one driver/translator/bodyguard here.
To my shock and delight he answered: ''Let's go.''
I went. Barefoot, over rocks, past a crack running the height of the house, out to the street in my underwear, first to look for a telephone to call in what had happened, then brave any aftershocks and return to the house for a chance at shoes and pants.
It's been nearly impossible to get an Internet or phone signal since then. So consider it my pure but well-founded speculation that many reports of the destruction of Port-au-Prince include a phrase like, ''Haiti is no stranger to suffering.''
In the wake of Tuesday's magnitude-7 earthquake, which leveled much of the Haitian capital and left perhaps tens of thousands dead, it is both an understatement and an overstatement.
Sure, Haiti is no stranger to suffering: For most people here, tragedy is more common than lunch. And yet this nation has never faced anything on such a cataclysmic scale.
Less than two years ago, the country's fourth-largest city, Gonaives, was left underwater by a limping tropical storm that would have barely disrupted traffic in Miami.
As our photographer and I came in on a raft with Brazilian soldiers, we passed bodies floating in the street. It was the third of four named storms to hit the country in the space of a month.
Barely two months later, a school fell down in the slum-and-mansion suburb of Petionville, and about 100 people died. The first sign was a noise that sounded like sirens coming from over the hill. They were the voices of screaming parents.
Here, passing a dead body in the streets after yet another storm or political coup merits little more than a passing comment about how properly the face has been covered.
Now we have to try to understand what it means that such a long history of pain pales next to the devastation wrought by 15 to 20 seconds of shaking one January afternoon.
Behind the now-bisected AP house is the same slum where that ill-fated school entered our nightmares two years ago. This time, every flimsy building had caved. The white cloud scratching my lungs hung across the horizon. And the screams were a screeching thunder.
The city is a ruin. Fuel, food and water are running in short supply. Mothers have lost their children. Children have lost their families. Entire neighborhoods are sleeping in the streets. People walk miles up and down mountains, carrying everything they own, with no real place to go.
But here is what is new: You have perhaps seen the pictures of the national palace smashed into a lurching heap over the grassy Champs de Mars. Or of the collapsed twin spires of the Notre Dame d'Haiti cathedral complex, which claimed the life of the archbishop. Or of the collapsed parliament where the senate president remained trapped Wednesday.
Imagine if nearly all the institutions in your life -- flawed, but still the only ones -- disappeared, all at once.
In a life where the next meal is uncertain, where the next rain may claim your home, where the next election may happen or not -- where that is the normal. Think of having those institutions smashed all around you.
At the very moment when you have lost someone, perhaps many people, you loved.
The AP house, a footnote in the devastation, is an uninhabitable mess on the verge of collapse. An entire city is screaming for help. I've finally logged onto the Internet long enough to see that some of those calls will be answered, at least in some way.
But what will happen after that help, like so much here, has vanished? Will there be an after?
Looks like another lost opportunity
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/13/the_lost_haitian_revival
QuoteThe lost Haitian revival
Posted By Annie Lowrey Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 11:22 AM Share
As Mark Goldberg writes for the Daily Beast, Haiti just can't catch a break. The country, which has been through years of war and upheaval, and remains woefully poor, yesterday was hit with a massive earthquake which has caused critical damage to its major city and capital, Port-au-Prince. Casualties are expected to be massive, and as many as 3 of the country's 9 million citizens are without basic services. What makes it all sadder is that things had, just recently, seemed to be looking up.
Around 800,000 tourists traveled to Haiti last year -- a sizeable number for a small nation. But 500,000 of them never ventured further than Royal Caribbean Cruise Line's heavily guarded man-made enclave on the northern shore of the island; therefore, they did little good for Haiti's economy. (Royal Caribbean apparently installs most of its own staff in Labadee, seen above, meaning fewer Haitians hired.)
Haitians as well as U.N. staff on the island were battling the country's image as a failing state, a murder and kidnapping capital. Its safety statistics are in fact in line with or lower than those in other Caribbean nations, after spiking in 2004 during the Aristide crisis.
Just last week, Comfort Inn announced it was planning on building a small hotel on the island. It would have been the only major international chain to have an outpost on Haiti. Additionally, via Tyler Cowen, Haiti was just one of two Caribbean countries expected to have GDP growth in 2010, of around 2.5 percent.
Image via RobinH00d on Flickr
.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 13, 2010, 09:16:02 PM
I love when people pat themselves on the back for just throwing up their hands and declaring the blatantly obvious: "This is the status quo!"
No shit, people in North America and Europe would care more if this happened in a developed country. :hmm: This is not a very insightful or helpful contribution.
And I do believe that the effort to attain some level of empathy for the suffering of even "third world" people is not reducible an exercise in PC guilt tripping or whatever else the self-declared realists of the privileged world would call it.
:rolleyes:
Tyr made a comment that was misinterpreted by Timmay, I clarified it for him. Shit storm ensued.
I love it when people jump into a situation without actually reading what's been said, and throw down their self-righteous anger and proceed to pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Idiot.
Quote from: Josephus on January 13, 2010, 09:06:46 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 13, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
Stay classy, Slargos.
:lol:
Seriously. I'm curious to hear how not caring about the fates of people on the other side of the globe constitutes racism.
I just want to point out that whilst I agreed with Slargos' original premise that ultimately the world doesn't give as much of a shit as if the same earthquake happens in New York or London; I do want to distance myself from everything else Slargos has said in this and probably other threads.
Thank you.
:ph34r:
:lol:
Judas.
Though it's a sad state of affairs when you should have to make such a statement. :mad:
Looks like Anarchy is beginning to set in.
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/13/gupta.haiti.quake.gunshots.cnn
I don't think gunshots are anything unusual there
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on January 14, 2010, 05:29:10 AM
I don't think gunshots are anything unusual there
Most of the sources I'd read up to now, mentioned how calm it was. The peacekeepers also seem to have been useful, stomping down on crime successfully.
Haitian ambassador responds to Pat Robertson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A2q60qg0WA
But you can't believe someone who made a pact with the devil
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on January 13, 2010, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:05:38 PM
This will be the world's finest humanitarian hour.
I think you're forgetting New Orleans
No, that was "America's greatest embarrassment".
HECKUVA JOB BROWNIE
Buildings really start shaking 14 seconds in and the first one comes down at 21 seconds, way too fast for most people to get out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXHopCrs46U&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2010, 05:13:22 AM
Looks like Anarchy is beginning to set in.
It's good to see life getting back to normal.
I would like to point out one thing: while Slargos is right in saying that people in the developed world usually do not give a rat's ass about disasters in the Third World, I suspect that this one may turn out to be different.
Why? Because the level of destruction is so great, that it affected not only the poorest areas, but also levelled the goverment/social buildings.
In effect, the nation (which already bordered on a failed state) ceased to exist.
This is a "civilization-ending" scenario very similar to that of many movies, and it fills the catastrophistic ideas of a great many people, so I think there will be a lot of attention given to Haiti, based on the same kind of morbid attraction that makes people go and watch crappy movies like "2012".
Like all of the attention given to Somalia, which has been in a similar situation for like 20 years? :huh:
The difference between those two, for example, is that Haiti is much close to the United States and there is a much larger Haitian community here than there is a Somalian community. Those two factors might cause us to pay more long-term attention to the Haiti disaster.
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 08:38:43 AM
Like all of the attention given to Somalia, which has been in a similar situation for like 20 years? :huh:
The difference between those two, for example, is that Haiti is much close to the United States and there is a much larger Haitian community here than there is a Somalian community. Those two factors might cause us to pay more long-term attention to the Haiti disaster.
This is also a natural disaster rather than a man made one in Somalia.
Random fact - I read an article recently that claimed that Somalia had some of the best cell phone coverage in Africa.
Looks like the city was carpet bombed by the 8th Army Airforce. :cry:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/34857433#34857433
One thing for sure - the media are having a field day. A fat juicy tear-jerking story they'll be able to milk for several days/weeks.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on January 14, 2010, 09:11:19 AM
One thing for sure - the media are having a field day. A fat juicy tear-jerking story they'll be able to milk for several days/weeks.
Yep.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2010, 08:40:54 AM
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 08:38:43 AM
Like all of the attention given to Somalia, which has been in a similar situation for like 20 years? :huh:
The difference between those two, for example, is that Haiti is much close to the United States and there is a much larger Haitian community here than there is a Somalian community. Those two factors might cause us to pay more long-term attention to the Haiti disaster.
This is also a natural disaster rather than a man made one in Somalia.
Random fact - I read an article recently that claimed that Somalia had some of the best cell phone coverage in Africa.
They would, that is how the Al Quaeda backed rebel groups kept in communication right up to the withdrawal of US troops and beyond.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on January 14, 2010, 12:57:28 AM
Quote from: Fireblade on January 14, 2010, 12:27:56 AM
Damn, I hope China doesn't go broke with that massive aid package! :rolleyes:
Haiti recognizes Taiwan instead of Beijing, I'm surprised they got anything
Wow, my love of Haiti has just risen a notch.
Its still well in negative numbers but anyway.
I didn't know anyone still did that
So, is the US sending an Hospital Boat?
With every country sending supplies & physicians, it seems Haiti will become one of the country with the greateast Doctors to Patient ratio in the next few days.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 09:20:53 AM
So, is the US sending an Hospital Boat?
The USNS
Comfort, which is the reserve hospital ship on the East Coast.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 13, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
You cannot hug a child with nuclear weapons (or an aircraft carrier).
No, but you can generate 400,000+ gallons of potable water a day with one, which is what they need immediately.
Plus transport that water and other supplies, food, medical teams and other personnel to the country. Many helos that can be flown from them allow fast transport, especially to remote areas. And the carriers have good medical facilities on board. In short, they can provide a lot of assistance.
Wonder how they will handle that since the Port is basically destroyed.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
Wonder how they will handle that since the Port is basically destroyed.
Seebees.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fd%2Fda%2FSeabees.png%2F220px-Seabees.png&hash=9f9a410a09dfac1d6cc81a5d2e1c2006ffbaaaa3)
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
Wonder how they will handle that since the Port is basically destroyed.
The carriers don't need to dock, and I assume they likely wouldn't regardless of port facilities or not.
Unless the Seabees will also take care of unloading for every other Nation sending help, it's not going to be easy.
Edit. Well nm, the seabees aren't what I thought they were.
Quote from: AP guyI was sitting on my bed surfing the Internet when I noticed silence, followed by a weird groaning sound.
Happens to me several nights a week.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2010, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 13, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
You cannot hug a child with nuclear weapons (or an aircraft carrier).
No, but you can generate 400,000+ gallons of potable water a day with one, which is what they need immediately.
For recreational use?
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
Edit. Well nm, the seabees aren't what I thought they were.
Tell me about it.
:mad: My father in law was a Seabee who was in Vietnam (and yes, was even under fire).
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 11:38:04 AMmud people
:huh:
They are already incredibly desperate. If anything, a normal person would feel even worse for them. Even if Haiti has made a lot of poor decisions, I don't think any nation deserves to be leveled with such a devastating earthquake.
Also, you are a fantastically racist fuck and I hope you die in a fire.
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
:blink:
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
Wonder how they will handle that since the Port is basically destroyed.
search "lighterage", we don't need ports or docks,
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:51:52 PM
:Embarrass:
I pulled a Martinus. How about "I hope you realize how much of an idiot you are Grallon will agree with you at some point in your life?"
FYPFY.
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
:blink:
:lol:
Gotta love the Siege persona.
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 14, 2010, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
Wonder how they will handle that since the Port is basically destroyed.
search "lighterage", we don't need ports or docks,
How does it work exactly?
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 14, 2010, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
Wonder how they will handle that since the Port is basically destroyed.
search "lighterage", we don't need ports or docks,
How does it work exactly?
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=lighterage&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
I did not think of looking at googles Images.
That's pretty cool.
How long can it go?
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 11:58:26 AM
Quote from: Slargos on January 13, 2010, 11:38:04 AMmud people
:huh:
They are already incredibly desperate. If anything, a normal person would feel even worse for them. Even if Haiti has made a lot of poor decisions, I don't think any nation deserves to be leveled with such a devastating earthquake.
Also, you are a fantastically racist fuck and I hope you die in a fire.
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
:lol:
:cheers:
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 14, 2010, 01:29:28 PM
I did not think of looking at googles Images.
That's pretty cool.
How long can it go?
Not sure, I don't have my cargo books with me, but I don't think there is a technical limit, just practical limits.
Quote from: grumbler on January 14, 2010, 12:59:13 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 13, 2010, 01:51:52 PM
:Embarrass:
I pulled a Martinus. How about "I hope you realize how much of an idiot you are Grallon will agree with you at some point in your life?"
FYPFY.
Still sore about my calling you out on your pseudo intellectual ambitions I see. :lol:
G.
Quote from: Tyr on January 14, 2010, 09:16:54 AM
Wow, my love of Haiti has just risen a notch.
Its still well in negative numbers but anyway.
I didn't know anyone still did that
Only poor countries that Taiwan is bribing.
Quote from: Sahib on January 14, 2010, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 14, 2010, 09:16:54 AM
Wow, my love of Haiti has just risen a notch.
Its still well in negative numbers but anyway.
I didn't know anyone still did that
Only poor countries that Taiwan is bribing.
And that China doesn't care or bother to out-bribe.
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
What makes you think that?
Quote from: Maximus on January 14, 2010, 05:29:56 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
What makes you think that?
Low self-esteem.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 14, 2010, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
I think Slargos is worth more than several thousands of violent 3rd worlders that are barely self-aware.
:blink:
:lol:
Gotta love the Siege persona.
:mad: Are you saying that I am not for real?
Do push-ups, fucker!
Don't get up until I get tired of watching you push!
This tragedy has hit me on a personal level. Whenver I google my full name, I would always get the archbishop of Haiti, who shares my namesake.
Well, he died. :(
The Red Cross estimates 50,000 dead, which seems low to me given the size of the city. After all 80,000 were killed last year in the Chinese earthquake, and Chinese buildings, however deficient by western standards are certainly better than Haitian ones.
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 05:49:02 PM
:mad: Are you saying that I am not for real?
Sir, yes sir!
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2010, 06:49:25 PM
The Red Cross estimates 50,000 dead, which seems low to me given the size of the city. After all 80,000 were killed last year in the Chinese earthquake, and Chinese buildings, however deficient by western standards are certainly better than Haitian ones.
Not anywhere near a credible number. Our portuguese journalists have entered Haiti by land through the Dominican Republic, and they say that, as soon as one crosses the border* one starts to see bodies all over the place. They report literally thousands and thousands of bodies all over the road to Port-au-Prince, and they've not even reached the city yet.
Also, local communities are now burying their dead (they're used to function without a real Government, so they handle things on their own), so one may never truly know the exact number of dead nationwide.
*: They add that the Dominican Republic is just fine, but as soon as one crosses into Haiti things change dramatically. It's like a Fantasy Good/Evil frontier.
That said, Haiti was a barely-working state. It needed 9,000 UN troops just to keep things somewhat controlled. Now it really no longer exists. It's just the name of a region.
Can we take advantage of this catastrophe to say that these people cannot rule themselves and put them under some kind of UN control? They have a very poor track record when it comes to independence (the black populations of the Caribbean are the descendents of the original inhabitants of West Africa, who were overrrun by migrant tribes around the XVIth century and later sold by their conquerors as slaves for a wealthy profit - the current West Africans are the descendents of those invaders, not of the original peoples; those are in the Caribbean now).
EDIT: and in Louisiana, especially in New Orleans, which was settled by the French. Though Katrina may have changed it a bit now.
Heck, I'd even accept that the whole land be given to the US, and become something administratively similar to Puerto Rico.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 07:21:53 PM
Heck, I'd even accept that the whole land be given to the US, and become something administratively similar to Puerto Rico.
No thanks.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2010, 06:49:25 PM
The Red Cross estimates 50,000 dead, which seems low to me given the size of the city. After all 80,000 were killed last year in the Chinese earthquake, and Chinese buildings, however deficient by western standards are certainly better than Haitian ones.
It's may be higher, but 'better' buildings isn't always a good thing. At these strengths almost anything can collapse. A 5 story concrete apartment building collapsing on you is much more likely to kill you than a single story shantytown hovel. One reason California does well is it's mostly suburban wooded houses, which tend to hold up well, and even if it falls on you, you can live.
The fucked up thing here is that they probably generally want to build more housing out of concrete, because they'll be more likely to survive in a hurricane--since Haiti gets its ass kicked by hurricanes on a nearly annual basis.
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 07:21:53 PM
Heck, I'd even accept that the whole land be given to the US, and become something administratively similar to Puerto Rico.
No thanks.
Indeed. Let up clear out our in-basket of some of the other backwater hell-holes we are responsible for now before shoving another in there.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 07:21:53 PM
Can we take advantage of this catastrophe to say that these people cannot rule themselves and put them under some kind of UN control? They have a very poor track record when it comes to independence (the black populations of the Caribbean are the descendents of the original inhabitants of West Africa, who were overrrun by migrant tribes around the XVIth century and later sold by their conquerors as slaves for a wealthy profit - the current West Africans are the descendents of those invaders, not of the original peoples; those are in the Caribbean now).
You're a very strange man.
I vote we give it to France.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 14, 2010, 08:13:06 PM
I vote we give it to France.
Excellent. Two advantages: they aren't busy and they couldn't fuck it up any more.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 14, 2010, 08:13:06 PM
I vote we give it to France.
France had a very bad experience with Haiti; they were the first black colony in the world to become independent (in 1804, under their own Emperor) and the wars they waged against the French were very bloody; most white europeans were butchered.
I doubt the French would want that hellhole back.
Or give it to the Dominican Republic and unite the island.
Though if we did that, the DR would take it as a declaration of war.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 08:31:55 PM
I doubt the French would want that hellhole back.
But yet you think the United States would? :huh:
Quote from: Grallon on January 14, 2010, 01:51:55 PM
Still sore about my calling you out on your pseudo intellectual ambitions I see. :lol:
Don't know that you ever did that, but if it makes you happy to think that you did it, knock yerself right the fuck out! :hug:
Why rebuild at all? Why not just finish the job?
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 07:21:53 PM
Heck, I'd even accept that the whole land be given to the US, and become something administratively similar to Puerto Rico.
No thanks.
Congress should have let Grant buy the Dominican Republic from that crooked President. Fucking spoil sports. <_<
Quote from: Barrister on January 14, 2010, 08:11:44 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 07:21:53 PM
Can we take advantage of this catastrophe to say that these people cannot rule themselves and put them under some kind of UN control? They have a very poor track record when it comes to independence (the black populations of the Caribbean are the descendents of the original inhabitants of West Africa, who were overrrun by migrant tribes around the XVIth century and later sold by their conquerors as slaves for a wealthy profit - the current West Africans are the descendents of those invaders, not of the original peoples; those are in the Caribbean now).
You're a very strange man.
Indeed, all the other Caribbean nations seem to be doing fine. Haiti's problems are unique to Hati and have nothing to do with West Africa.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2010, 09:13:39 PM
Congress should have let Grant buy the Dominican Republic from that crooked President. Fucking spoil sports. <_<
My preference would have been for Panama. A man. A plan. A canal. PANAMA!
I think CAnada should get it. I mean, our Head of State is from there and it would make a nice little warm place to visit in the winter...our own little Cuba as it were.
Hasn't there been some semi-serious talk about Canada acquiring Turks & Caicos?
You know, you're some pretty callous fucks towards the country that gave the world Toussaint L'Ouverture, Basquiat, Papa Doc Duvalier, and Wyclef Jean.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 08:31:55 PM
France had a very bad experience with Haiti; they were the first black colony in the world to become independent (in 1804, under their own Emperor) and the wars they waged against the French were very bloody; most white europeans were butchered.
Thanks for the history lesson, jackass.
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 14, 2010, 08:32:15 PM
Or give it to the Dominican Republic and unite the island.
Haiti was a French colony, settled with french-bought slaves where French (creole) is spoken; Haiti was Spanish land, settled with spanish settlers and spanish-bought slaves where Spanish is spoken; totally different cultures.
(no really, WAY different. Go to Google Earth and check the satellite images of the two countries. You can even see where the border is with your naked eye - Haiti is almost a wasted, barren land, the Dominican Republic still preserves a large part of its environment)
Quote from: jimmy olsen
Indeed, all the other Caribbean nations seem to be doing fine. Haiti's problems are unique to Hati and have nothing to do with West Africa.
They have a LOT to do with that particular people. Which was the one used by the French to help in New Orleans. Remember how the things went with Katrina? One could hardly recognize the US there anymore.
Quote from: garbon
Thanks for the history lesson, jackass.
History is History, what was done is what was done. Disliking it changes nothing.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PMGo to Google Earth and check the satellite images of the two countries. You can even see where the border is with your naked eye - Haiti is almost a wasted, barren land, the Dominican Republic still preserves a large part of its environment
I was under the impression that the DR's preservation had more to do with the preferences of dictator Trujillo than any other factors.
Quote from: ulmont on January 14, 2010, 09:47:07 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PMGo to Google Earth and check the satellite images of the two countries. You can even see where the border is with your naked eye - Haiti is almost a wasted, barren land, the Dominican Republic still preserves a large part of its environment
I was under the impression that the DR's preservation had more to do with the preferences of dictator Trujillo than any other factors.
French colonies tend to be worse off than the colonies of any other country, mind you. An uncivilized people cannot civilize.
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 09:17:48 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2010, 09:13:39 PM
Congress should have let Grant buy the Dominican Republic from that crooked President. Fucking spoil sports. <_<
My preference would have been for Panama. A man. A plan. A canal. PANAMA!
During Grant's Presidency? What would be the point? The technical ability to build such a canal wasn't there yet. If we wanted a canal at that point we would've taken out Nicaragua.
Quote from: Josephus on January 14, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
I think CAnada should get it. I mean, our Head of State is from there and it would make a nice little warm place to visit in the winter...our own little Cuba as it were.
Sine the US doesn't own Cuba, shouldn't it be your own little Puerto Rico?
Also, as Caliga said, I thought you guys were looking at the Turks and Caicos.
Quote from: Neil on January 14, 2010, 09:51:19 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 14, 2010, 09:47:07 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PMGo to Google Earth and check the satellite images of the two countries. You can even see where the border is with your naked eye - Haiti is almost a wasted, barren land, the Dominican Republic still preserves a large part of its environment
I was under the impression that the DR's preservation had more to do with the preferences of dictator Trujillo than any other factors.
French colonies tend to be worse off than the colonies of any other country, mind you. An uncivilized people cannot civilize.
I was going to say the same thing. People say that Spanish colonies turned out to do way worse than English colonies, but think of what wastelands the French left us. Haiti, Louisiana, Quebec. :x
Quote from: garbon on January 14, 2010, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 08:31:55 PM
France had a very bad experience with Haiti; they were the first black colony in the world to become independent (in 1804, under their own Emperor) and the wars they waged against the French were very bloody; most white europeans were butchered.
Thanks for the history lesson, jackass.
The white Europeans had it coming.
One thing I've got to agree with Silva on is the death count. It seems absurdly low after watching the footage today. Brian Williams showed one elementary school that he said had 700 kids in it when it pancaked and that's just one building. The UN lost 150 people. Whole neighborhoods have been annihilated, just acres upon acres of utter devastation. Then one has to factor all those who are dieing of untreated ones, thirst, etc. If only 50,000 people died it'll be a miracle.
One thing that has surprised me about the TV coverage is I wasn't aware Haiti had that many buildings. I figured it was maybe the presidential mansion and a few government buildings swimming in a sea of corrugated plastic shacks.
Quote from: Neil on January 14, 2010, 09:51:19 PM
French colonies tend to be worse off than the colonies of any other country, mind you. An uncivilized people cannot civilize.
Yeah, kinda like Zimbabwe, a success story of post-colonization development. Or Rwanda. Or South Africa with the Apartheid and the subsequent riot/massacres every few years.
I suppose Sudan should also be cited as an example, along with Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Now, should we start talking about the Spanish Colonies?
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
History is History, what was done is what was done. Disliking it changes nothing.
Actually it was more about you insulting our collective intelligence. Get a clue.
Quote from: viper37 on January 15, 2010, 12:16:24 AM
Yeah, kinda like Zimbabwe, a success story of post-colonization development. Or Rwanda. Or South Africa with the Apartheid and the subsequent riot/massacres every few years.
I suppose Sudan should also be cited as an example, along with Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Now, should we start talking about the Spanish Colonies?
British success stories are well known...so where are the French ones again? :unsure:
And fuck you.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
They have a LOT to do with that particular people. Which was the one used by the French to help in New Orleans. Remember how the things went with Katrina? One could hardly recognize the US there anymore.
Those people. Seriously? I can take a lot of shit on this board, but this sort of antiquated racism in a place of leisure? Scurry back to your den, please. I'm a descendant of those people and the only negative I've noted in my life is having to put up with the bullshit of psuedo-scholars like yourself.
Quote from: Josephus on January 14, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
I think CAnada should get it. I mean, our Head of State is from there and it would make a nice little warm place to visit in the winter...our own little Cuba as it were.
The Queen is Haitian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada
Quote from: Viking on January 15, 2010, 02:33:55 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 14, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
I think CAnada should get it. I mean, our Head of State is from there and it would make a nice little warm place to visit in the winter...our own little Cuba as it were.
The Queen is Haitian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada
Pretty sure he means the Governor General. :secret:
Quote from: garbon on January 15, 2010, 12:52:14 AM
And fuck you.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
They have a LOT to do with that particular people. Which was the one used by the French to help in New Orleans. Remember how the things went with Katrina? One could hardly recognize the US there anymore.
Those people. Seriously? I can take a lot of shit on this board, but this sort of antiquated racism in a place of leisure? Scurry back to your den, please. I'm a descendant of those people and the only negative I've noted in my life is having to put up with the bullshit of psuedo-scholars like yourself.
And you feel slighted, being related to them by blood?
You people are ridiculously race-conscious, for avowing your hatred of racism. :lol:
Me, I suspect a more important component than race is actually a cretinous crushing creole culture.
Didn't the same thing happen to Portugal way back when. I mean an Earthquake shoved the whole capital into the sea.
As for Haiti it's hard to build a nice country when the French periodically show up to extort or steal money from you.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 03:48:31 AM
Quote from: Viking on January 15, 2010, 02:33:55 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 14, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
I think CAnada should get it. I mean, our Head of State is from there and it would make a nice little warm place to visit in the winter...our own little Cuba as it were.
The Queen is Haitian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada
Pretty sure he means the Governor General. :secret:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsjennings.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F12%2Fpicard2.jpg&hash=6d20467f9a57b42cae0bee18add6e36b1f901979)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 14, 2010, 07:04:04 PM
Quote from: Siege on January 14, 2010, 05:49:02 PM
:mad: Are you saying that I am not for real?
Sir, yes sir!
You are wrong. I really don't give a flying fuck about 3rd world shitholes and the iliterate subhumans that inhabit those places.
Quote from: Siege on January 15, 2010, 06:32:45 AMI really don't give a flying fuck about 3rd world shitholes and the iliterate subhumans that inhabit those places.
Is that why you left, dune coon?
British colonies became succesful countries only in the cases where they exterminated the local natives.
The spanish, the portuguese, and the french failed to do so in every single colony, so no success stories for them.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 15, 2010, 06:35:04 AM
Quote from: Siege on January 15, 2010, 06:32:45 AMI really don't give a flying fuck about 3rd world shitholes and the iliterate subhumans that inhabit those places.
Is that why you left, dune coon?
Israel is a 1st world country, whether you like it or not.
Quote from: Siege on January 15, 2010, 06:43:06 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 15, 2010, 06:35:04 AM
Quote from: Siege on January 15, 2010, 06:32:45 AMI really don't give a flying fuck about 3rd world shitholes and the iliterate subhumans that inhabit those places.
Is that why you left, dune coon?
Israel is a 1st world country, whether you like it or not.
You weren't born in Israel, you fake Jew. A Bedouin tent in an occupied territory refugee camp isn't Israel, you Jordanian nigger.
Quote from: viper37 on January 15, 2010, 12:16:24 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 14, 2010, 09:51:19 PM
French colonies tend to be worse off than the colonies of any other country, mind you. An uncivilized people cannot civilize.
Yeah, kinda like Zimbabwe, a success story of post-colonization development. Or Rwanda. Or South Africa with the Apartheid and the subsequent riot/massacres every few years.
Apartheid was civilization, and Zimbabwe was plenty successful when it was Rhodesia.
I can't believe a porkchop is calling us uncivilized.
The pot is calling the kettle black!
Quote from: Caliga on January 14, 2010, 09:21:34 PM
Hasn't there been some semi-serious talk about Canada acquiring Turks & Caicos?
ABout twenty years ago...I'm still waiting.
Hence "semi-serious".
I for one approve of the notion of a Canadian Empire. :Canuck:
Quote from: Viking on January 15, 2010, 02:33:55 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 14, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
I think CAnada should get it. I mean, our Head of State is from there and it would make a nice little warm place to visit in the winter...our own little Cuba as it were.
The Queen is Haitian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada
Our acting head of state, I mean. The one that cried during her heart warming television address.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1Sl7LP5NDc
Just read that before the quake Haiti had 2 fire stations in the entire country. Damn, that's poor.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:09:56 AM
Just read that before the quake Haiti had 2 fire stations in the entire country. Damn, that's poor.
Luckily they have all those hurricanes to put the fires out
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:09:56 AM
Just read that before the quake Haiti had 2 fire stations in the entire country. Damn, that's poor.
Concrete doesn't burn much.
French West Africa is a mixed bag, but there are some decently governed countries there. I would certainly take Ghana over Nigeria, or Senegal over Sierra Leone.
Quote from: Neil on January 15, 2010, 06:52:38 AM
Apartheid was civilization, and Zimbabwe was plenty successful when it was Rhodesia.
At that rate, just about any colony was successful when it was still a colony. We were talking about post-colonial successes here.
Quote from: viper37 on January 15, 2010, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 15, 2010, 06:52:38 AM
Apartheid was civilization, and Zimbabwe was plenty successful when it was Rhodesia.
At that rate, just about any colony was successful when it was still a colony. We were talking about post-colonial successes here.
Post-colonial success is had by not having enough natives left to fuck up the country.
Post-modern success is had by not inviting enough third worlders into your country to fuck it up.
Any questions?
Ghana is another ex-British one btw.
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 11:55:35 AM
Post-colonial success is had by not having enough natives left to fuck up the country.
Post-modern success is had by not inviting enough third worlders into your country to fuck it up.
Any questions?
Japan's doing pretty well, and it's almost completely natives. :P
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 05:12:14 AM
You people are ridiculously race-conscious, for avowing your hatred of racism. :lol:
When it is constantly thrown in your face, you have little option.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Japan's doing pretty well, and it's almost completely natives. :P
The Ainu would disagree
Quote from: garbon on January 15, 2010, 12:52:14 AM
And fuck you.
Quote from: Martim Silva on January 14, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
They have a LOT to do with that particular people. Which was the one used by the French to help in New Orleans. Remember how the things went with Katrina? One could hardly recognize the US there anymore.
Those people. Seriously? I can take a lot of shit on this board, but this sort of antiquated racism in a place of leisure? Scurry back to your den, please. I'm a descendant of those people and the only negative I've noted in my life is having to put up with the bullshit of psuedo-scholars like yourself.
Don't worry, we've noted a couple of more negatives. :hug:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:09:56 AM
Just read that before the quake Haiti had 2 fire stations in the entire country. Damn, that's poor.
Wow. Their fire insurance premiums must've been off the charts.
Quote from: DGuller on January 15, 2010, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:09:56 AM
Just read that before the quake Haiti had 2 fire stations in the entire country. Damn, that's poor.
Wow. Their fire insurance premiums must've been off the charts.
:lmfao:
Quote from: DGuller on January 15, 2010, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:09:56 AM
Just read that before the quake Haiti had 2 fire stations in the entire country. Damn, that's poor.
Wow. Their fire insurance premiums must've been off the charts.
As I said, Concrete doesn't burn much.
I'm tired of hearing about it everywhere already - and this is only day 3 of the Deconstructivist Era(TM) in Haiti. This btw is how we become desensitized about such events: the media force feed us 24/7 until overload. <_<
Anyhow there's a colleague who organizes an art exhibit whose profits will be distributed to some charity over there so I'll have a couple of drinks and buy some art and assuage my conscience for cheap.
As an aside, I think those officials still alive should offer their country for bid to private corporations. I'm sure some of them might enjoy having a 'flag of convenience' and plenty of cheap labor.
G.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on January 15, 2010, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Japan's doing pretty well, and it's almost completely natives. :P
The Ainu would disagree
Well, the Aztecs were interlopers as well, but I was referring to the American colonization in the late 1940s.
Quote from: Grallon on January 15, 2010, 12:27:19 PM
I'm tired of hearing about it everywhere already - and this is only day 3 of the Deconstructivist Era(TM) in Haiti. This btw is how we become desensitized about such events: the media force feed us 24/7 until overload. <_<
Solution- turn the channel or turn the tv off.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 12:38:10 PM
Solution- turn the channel or turn the tv off.
I can't, it tells me not to.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 11:55:35 AM
Post-colonial success is had by not having enough natives left to fuck up the country.
Post-modern success is had by not inviting enough third worlders into your country to fuck it up.
Any questions?
Japan's doing pretty well, and it's almost completely natives. :P
Is Japan a colonial success? :huh:
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 11:55:35 AM
Post-colonial success is had by not having enough natives left to fuck up the country.
Post-modern success is had by not inviting enough third worlders into your country to fuck it up.
Any questions?
Japan's doing pretty well, and it's almost completely natives. :P
Is Japan a colonial success? :huh:
Anywhere that's not Europe = Colonie
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on January 15, 2010, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Japan's doing pretty well, and it's almost completely natives. :P
The Ainu would disagree
They are being erased a little more every year though. :(
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 11:55:35 AM
Post-colonial success is had by not having enough natives left to fuck up the country.
Post-modern success is had by not inviting enough third worlders into your country to fuck it up.
Any questions?
Sure. How does Chile fit into your preconceived notions? They are ~50% white, 50% native/mestizo and are certainly a successful, modern nation.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 15, 2010, 12:56:43 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 11:55:35 AM
Post-colonial success is had by not having enough natives left to fuck up the country.
Post-modern success is had by not inviting enough third worlders into your country to fuck it up.
Any questions?
Sure. How does Chile fit into your preconceived notions? They are ~50% white, 50% native/mestizo and are certainly a successful, modern nation.
Obviously, there aren't enough natives around to fuck up the country. Duh. :P
Besides, I wouldn't call Chile a modern nation.
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2010, 12:53:14 PM
Anywhere that's not Europe = Colonie
Japan may have done the technological modernization themselves but the social/cultural part we force fed them.
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 01:00:36 PM
Besides, I wouldn't call Chile a modern nation.
Why not?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 15, 2010, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2010, 12:53:14 PM
Anywhere that's not Europe = Colonie
Japan may have done the technological modernization themselves but the social/cultural part we force fed them.
Sure, and they were receptive to it, unlike the other 90% of the third world.
Of course, Japan had a centralized civilization to begin with.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 15, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 15, 2010, 01:00:36 PM
Besides, I wouldn't call Chile a modern nation.
Why not?
Because I get uncomfortable doing that? :D
Mostly though, any nation that has supplied Sweden with leftist welfare parasites is by definition not a modern nation.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 15, 2010, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on January 15, 2010, 12:09:11 PM
The Ainu would disagree
They are being erased a little more every year though. :(
It's because we don't ask for Ainu often enough. People just need to take Ed's advice more often. :cry:
Quote from: Caliga on January 15, 2010, 02:18:49 PM
It's because we don't ask for Ainu often enough. People just need to take Ed's advice more often. :cry:
Speak for yourself.
I noticed Geraldo is embedded with the 82nd over there. Last time he was with an Airborne unit, he was giving away positions on TV.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2010, 03:26:57 PM
Geraldo
:bleeding:
Well, there will be plenty of empty bank vaults in collapsed buildings for him to melodramatically open.
Quote from: Caliga on January 15, 2010, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2010, 03:26:57 PM
Geraldo
:bleeding:
Well, there will be plenty of empty bank vaults in collapsed buildings for him to melodramatically open.
heh.
Also Raz laughs.
140,000 Dead & 300,000 homeless. There are no words. :(
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703657604575005423130825384.html
QuoteTime Running Out on Haiti Survivors
By DIONNE SEARCEY And KEVIN NOBLET
PORT-AU-PRINCE—In Haiti's earthquake, every city block is its own epicenter.
On Friday, near Rue St. Gerard and Route des Dalles, a small university lay in rubble, its six concrete stories neatly pancaked. A law office sat in ruin, a trapped woman moaning inside. The hillside across the street is a red-dirt grave for 32 victims.
The consensus among quake experts was that about only 24 hours remained to save the trapped. And outside help hasn't yet arrived in this neighborhood. Crews of foreign rescue workers did pass by Thursday, leaving orange-and-black marks indicating locations buried survivors. Then they moved on.There were some isolated successes. Elsewhere in this ruined city of two million, rescuers on Friday saved a woman who sang "Jesus will save me" just before medics cut off her leg to free her.
Yet already, the focus is shifting from the dead or the trapped to those struggling for food and shelter.
Hundreds of thousands are homeless, tens of thousands are wounded, and nearly everyone lacks clean drinking water, raising the risk of a secondary wave of water-borne disease and death in coming days.
U.S. military crews got the capital's airport working, and cargo planes delivered rescue supplies. But progress remained slow.
The aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, for instance, floated five miles offshore, unable to find a place to unload supplies because of extensive damage to Haiti's main port. Residents are getting increasingly desperate.
There were scattered reports of looting and violence, reflecting the challenge of policing and governance. Small, roving bands of young men with machetes raided several wrecked homes, the Associated Press reported.
Senior U.S. officials said Washington is beginning to map out a reconstruction plan. The State Department's point person on Haiti, Cheryl Mills, stressed that Washington isn't drafting plans for some kind of U.S. interim administrator. The Red Cross estimates 45,000 to 50,000 people were killed in the earthquake. Other estimates are higher. Haiti's secretary of state for public safety, told Reuters that the death toll could hit 140,000
Among the living on Friday were people like Junior Lerolien. Three days after losing his entire family, he walked the streets in search of water. The 22-year-old tried to get in to the United Nations compound near the city's airport, but was turned back by guards. Mr. Lerolien was outside his house in the Delmas district Tuesday when he felt the shock. "I saw the house collapse," he said. His mother, father, three brothers and sister were inside. The rubble was so deep, he didn't even try to dig them out. "My whole family is buried," Mr. Lerolien said.
United Nations disaster experts said at least 10% of housing in the Haitian capital was destroyed, leaving about 300,000 homeless. The U.N. launched an appeal to raise $550 million to help survivors.
Just a few kilometers from the intersection of Rue St. Gerard and Route del Dalles, the national soccer stadium has become a makeshift hospital. Several hundred people turned up looking for treatment.
"No gloves, nothing to sew wounds, no antiseptic," said Wadner Lima, a volunteer Haitian paramedic. Mr. Lima tended to a boy with a head wound and a man whose leg was badly burned. His medical kit, a small red tackle box, had been depleted. "We just have some gauze left."
Outside the stadium, refugees clamored to board buses out of the city. A dead body lay atop a mattress.Across Port-au-Prince, doctors and nurses provided medical attention in almost medieval conditions. Outside Haiti's national public-health laboratory, scores of wounded pleaded to get inside, where a squad of Belgian first-responders and Canadian military medics operated a field hospital.
People carried injured relatives on makeshift gurneys. One the sidewalk outside the gates, a teenage girl lay near an old woman on a table with a crumpled umbrella shielding a bleeding knee.
A young man, eyes wide with terror, was carried by compatriots on a piece of plywood. His distended leg leaked puss. "Now it is emergency medicine, like war medicine—amputations, cleaning wounds, keeping people alive," said Ronald Ackermans, a nurse and part of a team of 60 or so medics and search-and-rescue personnel who flew in from Brussels.
One of the problems is what to do with the dead. Back on Rue St. Gerard in the Carrefour Feuille neighborhood, people rubbed limes on their nostrils to stymie the smell of death.
The earthquake remade this neighborhood in a few, violent seconds. An art gallery is in ruins; so is a pharmacy. No one knows what became of the old lady who used to sell rice from a boiling pot on the corner.
Clare Lydie Parent, who is mayor of the hillside town of Petionville, stood amidst the rubble in an official orange vest on Friday, helping direct rescue efforts at what had been the law offices—the building with a survivor in it.
"I heard the voice this morning," Ms. Parent said. "She gave me her name. She said, 'Mary.'"
Next door, at the small Universite Ste. Gerard, there were no orange vests, just young men scooping and tugging with their bare hands.
On Friday, residents heard voices and were convinced that several students remained alive in a basement classroom that had room for 60.
"They are calling to us, 'We're here, please help us,'" said Frederic Sergefils, who believed his brother was among those inside. At one point, one of the rescuers used a chair seat to dig into the wreckage. Just down the street, a wide-eyed Marie Yolene, 22, looked at the wreckage of a four-room house she shared with her three sisters, aged 21, 18 and 15.
The chairs and beds inside lay open to the street: The exterior walls had collapsed outward.
Three of the four were in the house when the quake hit.
The fourth, Marie, had been at the city's Sacred Heart Cathedral—which collapsed, killing many. Yet all four survived. "I was so lucky," Marie said.
—Jose de Cordoba
and Charles Forelle contributed to this report.
Washington person dies in Haiti:
http://www.khq.com/global/story.asp?s=11829574 (http://www.khq.com/global/story.asp?s=11829574)
:(
First hand look at the docks and it doesn't look good. Man on the scene estimates it might take 6-12 months to rebuild and that meanwhile the nation will simply starve to death.
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/15/candiotti.haiti.port.damage.cnn
God wills it.
A moving report.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjbBn11bSVA&feature=player_embedded#
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:31:33 PM
140,000 Dead & 300,000 homeless. There are no words. :(
Well some words. But also numbers.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 15, 2010, 10:31:33 PM
140,000 Dead & 300,000 homeless. There are no words. :(
Why not? This is what happens when a natural disaster strikes a pre-civilized country.
As hard as it might be to say this disaster may be a good thing for Haiti in the long term. IIRC one of Haiti's problems is that it's seriously overcrowded. So those that manage to survive the earthquake's aftermath could be looking at a bit of a higher standard of living.
Quote from: Caliga on January 16, 2010, 06:46:59 AM
As hard as it might be to say this disaster may be a good thing for Haiti in the long term. IIRC one of Haiti's problems is that it's seriously overcrowded. So those that manage to survive the earthquake's aftermath could be looking at a bit of a higher standard of living.
I rather doubt it. There's no incentive to build a civilization in Haiti. All those who are ambitious go to better places, which is pretty much anywhere.
Quote from: Caliga on January 16, 2010, 06:46:59 AM
As hard as it might be to say this disaster may be a good thing for Haiti in the long term. IIRC one of Haiti's problems is that it's seriously overcrowded. So those that manage to survive the earthquake's aftermath could be looking at a bit of a higher standard of living.
How long does it take to reproduce enough to replace the lost? A few years at most?
I don't know about you guys, but I'm all Haitianed out.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 16, 2010, 08:21:00 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm all Haitianed out.
I've avoided the media for the last week. Unfortunately, today and tomorrow are football days, which means all sorts of asides and commercials relating to that shitty country.
See....didn't even take a week, and we're moving on already. Told you so. <_<
Quote from: Josephus on January 16, 2010, 09:29:28 AM
See....didn't even take a week, and we're moving on already. Told you so. <_<
Racist. :rolleyes:
Slargy we already know that about you, no need to come in thread and remind us.
Quote from: katmai on January 16, 2010, 10:01:26 AM
Slargy we already know that about you, no need to come in thread and remind us.
:lol:
I know you are, but what am I?
Quote from: Neil on January 16, 2010, 07:06:51 AM
I rather doubt it. There's no incentive to build a civilization in Haiti. All those who are ambitious go to better places, which is pretty much anywhere.
The papers this morning were mentioning that Canada is considering loosening its immigratio restrictions to facilitate the reunification of 'families' (aka tribes) on humanitarian grounds... Now it's not only the 'middle-class' professionals and intellectuals we'll be taking in - it's the dirt poor whose habits will be carried over as well. I expect more sectors of Montreal to be morphed into shantytowns. <_<
G.
Quote from: Grallon on January 16, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 16, 2010, 07:06:51 AM
I rather doubt it. There's no incentive to build a civilization in Haiti. All those who are ambitious go to better places, which is pretty much anywhere.
The papers this morning were mentioning that Canada is considering loosening its immigratio restrictions to facilitate the reunification of 'families' (aka tribes) on humanitarian grounds... Now it's not only the 'middle-class' professionals and intellectuals we'll be taking in - it's the dirt poor whose habits will be carried over as well. I expect more sectors of Montreal to be morphed into shantytowns. <_<
G.
Wonder if we'd be doing this if it was any other 3rd world country other than Haiti, given our ties to it?
I was also Haiti'd out after seeing the report on CNN on how the UN truck giving out the biscuits was mobbed, and the biscuits were stomped on, because a couple of idiots mistakenly thought they were expired. The truck had to make a quick getaway without unloading most of its stuff. That place is like the Somalia of the Americas.
Quote from: Josephus on January 16, 2010, 11:15:28 AM
Wonder if we'd be doing this if it was any other 3rd world country other than Haiti, given our ties to it?
The Head of State is from Haiti (one of the aforementioned Diaspora of intellectuals and professionals), the haitian communities are large in Ontario and Quebec and I suspect Harper is playing a humanitarian card to have us all forget his usual indifference in such matters as well as to deviate attention from his contemptuous prorogation of Parliement.
G.
Quote from: DGuller on January 16, 2010, 11:25:26 AMthe biscuits were stomped on, because a couple of idiots mistakenly thought they were expired.
:lol:
What? They were destroying food because they thought it was expired? Would they rather go back to eating dirt cookies?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.boston.com%2Fresize%2Fbonzai-fba%2FGlobe_Photo%2F2008%2F01%2F30%2F1201751385_5835%2F539w.jpg&hash=3225999d56bca16d2e3a78978c71097543ec8904)
Quote from: Caliga on January 16, 2010, 06:46:59 AM
As hard as it might be to say this disaster may be a good thing for Haiti in the long term. IIRC one of Haiti's problems is that it's seriously overcrowded. So those that manage to survive the earthquake's aftermath could be looking at a bit of a higher standard of living.
In a country with around 10 million people, the loss of a hundred thousand or so won't do much to relieve overcrowding. Probably the loss of so many structures is only going to increase it.
I am not "Haitianed out" as I've been ignoring the cable news for the past 6 months. I have managed to compartmentalize it though.
Quote from: alfred russel on January 16, 2010, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: Caliga on January 16, 2010, 06:46:59 AM
As hard as it might be to say this disaster may be a good thing for Haiti in the long term. IIRC one of Haiti's problems is that it's seriously overcrowded. So those that manage to survive the earthquake's aftermath could be looking at a bit of a higher standard of living.
In a country with around 10 million people, the loss of a hundred thousand or so won't do much to relieve overcrowding. Probably the loss of so many structures is only going to increase it.
If we're lucky disease, disorder and the upcoming civil war will cleanse larger numbers than the actual quake itself.
Quotethe biscuits were stomped on, because a couple of idiots mistakenly thought they were expired.
Clearly "beggars can't be choosers" doesn't translate into French....
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 16, 2010, 02:09:31 AM
First hand look at the docks and it doesn't look good. Man on the scene estimates it might take 6-12 months to rebuild and that meanwhile the nation will simply starve to death.
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/15/candiotti.haiti.port.damage.cnn
So...take as many of them as possible to the US?
Quote from: Josephus on January 16, 2010, 09:29:28 AM
See....didn't even take a week, and we're moving on already. Told you so. <_<
Now, now. That wasn't your prediction. Your prediction had to do with the location of this thread.
Meh... similar to Katrina... <_<
Disaster strucks some region in which many black people live - Black people turn into thieves - the Americans send their army in order to maintain discipline
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 03:07:23 PM
Meh... similar to Katrina... <_<
Disaster strucks some region in which many black people live - Black people turn into thieves - the Americans send their army in order to maintain discipline
Racist. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 03:07:23 PM
Meh... similar to Katrina... <_<
Disaster strucks some region in which many black people live - Black people turn into thieves - the Americans send their army in order to maintain discipline
:rolleyes:
Quote from: garbon on January 16, 2010, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 03:07:23 PM
Meh... similar to Katrina... <_<
Disaster strucks some region in which many black people live - Black people turn into thieves - the Americans send their army in order to maintain discipline
:rolleyes:
Indeed. The black community doesn't need a hurricane as an excuse to turn into a bunch of thieves.
Quote from: DGuller on January 16, 2010, 11:25:26 AM
I was also Haiti'd out after seeing the report on CNN on how the UN truck giving out the biscuits was mobbed, and the biscuits were stomped on, because a couple of idiots mistakenly thought they were expired. The truck had to make a quick getaway without unloading most of its stuff. That place is like the Somalia of the Americas.
My sympathy took a hit when I saw a report on CNN that the tent hospital where CNN's own Sanjay Gupta was helping out had to pack up and move out of fears of nearby rioting and gun fire.
I still blame Haiti for the death of Leclerc. :cry: Pauline deserved better...
I received the oportunity to volunteer to go to Haiti, but I can't as I will be gone for a month on another operation already. :ph34r:
I did tell them I know a few people on the internet that would gladly take my place. ;) You all will receive your orders soon enough.
Are there muslims in Haiti?
Quote from: Siege on January 16, 2010, 05:30:16 PM
Are there muslims in Haiti?
No. They're all Sefardi.
Quote from: garbon on January 16, 2010, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 16, 2010, 09:29:28 AM
See....didn't even take a week, and we're moving on already. Told you so. <_<
Now, now. That wasn't your prediction. Your prediction had to do with the location of this thread.
Give it a couple days. And spamming this thread with off-topic discussion references to Slargos' viewpoints don't count.
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 03:07:23 PM
Meh... similar to Katrina... <_<
Disaster strucks some region in which many black people live - Black people turn into thieves - the Americans send their army in order to maintain discipline
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4gifs.com%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F143573-1%2FBecameagod.jpg&hash=02539a0c351f9b10fea5a1c9ef75f6b52b6829f0)
And your point is...
Quote from: lustindarkness on January 16, 2010, 04:58:50 PM
I received the oportunity to volunteer to go to Haiti, but I can't as I will be gone for a month on another operation already. :ph34r:
I did tell them I know a few people on the internet that would gladly take my place. ;) You all will receive your orders soon enough.
I've noticed they are peeling off bits of the 88th SFS from Wright Patt to go over there.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 16, 2010, 11:25:26 AM
I was also Haiti'd out after seeing the report on CNN on how the UN truck giving out the biscuits was mobbed, and the biscuits were stomped on, because a couple of idiots mistakenly thought they were expired. The truck had to make a quick getaway without unloading most of its stuff. That place is like the Somalia of the Americas.
My sympathy took a hit when I saw a report on CNN that the tent hospital where CNN's own Sanjay Gupta was helping out had to pack up and move out of fears of nearby rioting and gun fire.
Why? This kind of desperate situation will cause a breakdown in order anywhere. I've been impressed that it took this long to get out of control.
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 06:27:47 PM
And your point is...
I don't think that's a requirement for a Queequeg post.
Sure, we can go on fixing the symptoms if that's what people want. Or we could solve the root problem: plate tectonics. I know what I vote for.
Quote from: The Brain on January 16, 2010, 07:41:37 PM
Sure, we can go on fixing the symptoms if that's what people want. Or we could solve the root problem: plate tectonics. I know what I vote for.
measuring head sizes?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 16, 2010, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 06:27:47 PM
And your point is...
I don't think that's a requirement for a Queequeg post.
I'm surprised he hasn't linked it yet to the Antioch earthquake and Roman-Persian relations of the 7th century.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 16, 2010, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 16, 2010, 07:41:37 PM
Sure, we can go on fixing the symptoms if that's what people want. Or we could solve the root problem: plate tectonics. I know what I vote for.
measuring head sizes?
Thank you. Yes.
Quote from: The Brain on January 16, 2010, 07:41:37 PM
Sure, we can go on fixing the symptoms if that's what people want. Or we could solve the root problem: plate tectonics. I know what I vote for.
:lol:
I think that continental drift is far more valuable than the lives of a few million third-worlders.
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 16, 2010, 06:27:47 PM
And your point is...
That was an incredibly foolish, racist post, and I treated it with the respect it deserved. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4gifs.com%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F143565-1%2F4GIFsDotCom02.jpg&hash=9ded4d69787fa9d324810c225837980e7f1e64ed)
It's a legitimate point. Rioting and shooting after a natural disaster don't make things any better and they hinder the people trying to help you.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 09:27:44 PM
It's a legitimate point. Rioting and shooting after a natural disaster don't make things any better and they hinder the people trying to help you.
True. I believe it is the racial assumptions going on here though. Any society is gonna be three meals away from revolution. I think in any American city we'd see civil breakdown begin within a few days of a major disaster and the elimination of authority.
We'd certainly see it in Romania.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 10:02:21 PM
True. I believe it is the racial assumptions going on here though. Any society is gonna be three meals away from revolution. I think in any American city we'd see civil breakdown begin within a few days of a major disaster and the elimination of authority.
Like if there were an earthquake in San Francisco or a big fire in Chicago?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 10:02:21 PM
True. I believe it is the racial assumptions going on here though. Any society is gonna be three meals away from revolution. I think in any American city we'd see civil breakdown begin within a few days of a major disaster and the elimination of authority.
Like if there were an earthquake in San Francisco or a big fire in Chicago?
Civil authorities survived both, and there was the state and federal governments with a great deal of resources to draw upon.
Remember how sensationalized the stories coming out of New Orleans were.
Haiti had a ruinous earthquake? How could they tell?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 11:03:08 PM
Civil authorities survived both, and there was the state and federal governments with a great deal of resources to draw upon.
Was civil authority eliminated in Haiti? And Haiti has a great deal of resources to draw on from the international community.
Was there civil authority to be eliminated?
Quote from: alfred russel on January 16, 2010, 11:12:27 PM
Remember how sensationalized the stories coming out of New Orleans were.
Indeed people were saying that it was fake and just a way for the media to embarrass Bush.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 09:27:44 PM
It's a legitimate point. Rioting and shooting after a natural disaster don't make things any better and they hinder the people trying to help you.
But it's not a black or white issue, level Stockholm and leave the survivors for days without food or water and the same violent behavior will ensue.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 11:03:08 PM
Civil authorities survived both, and there was the state and federal governments with a great deal of resources to draw upon.
Was civil authority eliminated in Haiti? And Haiti has a great deal of resources to draw on from the international community.
For most of the people that will be days away.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 16, 2010, 11:43:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 16, 2010, 11:12:27 PM
Remember how sensationalized the stories coming out of New Orleans were.
Indeed people were saying that it was fake and just a way for the media to embarrass Bush.
I was referring to the lord of the flies type stories of the katrina aftermath that were indeed b.s.
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/sep/27/nation/na-rumors27
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 11:03:08 PM
Civil authorities survived both, and there was the state and federal governments with a great deal of resources to draw upon.
Was civil authority eliminated in Haiti? And Haiti has a great deal of resources to draw on from the international community.
Is this a serious question? Anyone who knows anything about Haiti or has just watched the news over the last few days would know that it has been eliminated. The government had little authority to begin with. It was propped up by UN peacekeepers whose command staff was decapitated when their HQ collapsed. The national police have evaporated as the survivors struggle to help their families. The national army was disbanded by the peacekeepers. Report after report has emphasized the absolute lack of any sign of civil authority or aid organized by the government. The only sign of the government in action that has been seen is the burial of the bodies in mass graves, but that only began in earnest yesterday. Haiti is now a failed state to greater degree than Somalia. At least Somalia is divided by warlords who control their territory.
The aid is stuck at the airport or being distributed by foreign aid workers or the US military. How does that show the Haitian government has authority?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 11:53:51 PM
For most of the people that will be days away.
How quick did aid get to San Francisco and Chicago?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2010, 12:25:46 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2010, 11:53:51 PM
For most of the people that will be days away.
How quick did aid get to San Francisco and Chicago?
How long are you going to play the Yi game of all questions and no statements?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 16, 2010, 11:52:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 09:27:44 PM
It's a legitimate point. Rioting and shooting after a natural disaster don't make things any better and they hinder the people trying to help you.
But it's not a black or white issue, level Stockholm and leave the survivors for days without food or water and the same violent behavior will ensue.
I think we should try that and see what happens.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 16, 2010, 11:52:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 09:27:44 PM
It's a legitimate point. Rioting and shooting after a natural disaster don't make things any better and they hinder the people trying to help you.
But it's not a black or white issue, level Stockholm and leave the survivors for days without food or water and the same violent behavior will ensue.
You can't see the fucking difference between a civilized city and Haiti :wacko:
Quote from: Alexandru H. on January 17, 2010, 04:14:13 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 16, 2010, 11:52:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2010, 09:27:44 PM
It's a legitimate point. Rioting and shooting after a natural disaster don't make things any better and they hinder the people trying to help you.
But it's not a black or white issue, level Stockholm and leave the survivors for days without food or water and the same violent behavior will ensue.
You can't see the fucking difference between a civilized city and Haiti :wacko:
Ah, I forgot, Swedes are glowing balls of light that will en masse endure slow death by untreated injury, thirst and starvation with grace and dignity. :rolleyes:
Stockholm is not on trial here. Haiti is. And America.
I will just leave this here...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg10.imageshack.us%2Fimg10%2F1875%2F1263725476636.jpg&hash=49a10294f8773bc9475efa1d57c8821e5f9939f9)
Seems my comment about moving them to the US was heard by someone...Not who the Haitans would have preferred but err...weird.
To Africa!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8463921.stm
Quote from: Tyr on January 17, 2010, 07:14:42 AM
Seems my comment about moving them to the US was heard by someone...Not who the Haitans would have preferred but err...weird.
To Africa!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8463921.stm
To Senegal, to be more precise. A Muslim majority country at the edge of Sahara. Yes lets move a couple of 100K Roman Catholics and voodoo practitioners to Senegal and give them a whole region, That will work out just fine... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on January 17, 2010, 07:31:53 AM
To Senegal, to be more precise. A Muslim majority country at the edge of Sahara. Yes lets move a couple of 100K Roman Catholics and voodoo practitioners to Senegal and give them a whole region, That will work out just fine... :rolleyes:
I doubt the offer will be taken up but it woudl be pretty darn funny to see....
Someone is angry. :lol:
http://www.slate.com/id/2241545/
QuoteHaitian Nitpicking Bonus No. 1: Why the goddamn hell is Barack Obama writing the cover story for next week's Newsweek (which, like Slate, is owned by the Washington Post Co.)? He doesn't know anything about Haiti outside of what his aides may have told him. He won't even write it! If the piece is worth publishing, Newsweek should give the byline to its true author.
I thought him writing that is odd as well. He is kind of busy after all. Though I would hope that he would already know a bit about Haiti given his Harvard education.
Man, that's nasty, Penguin. :yucky:
Anyone know what Haitian food is like? I wouldn't object to tons of Haitians moving to the states for if it will seriously reduce pressure on Haiti's environment for a while. Besides, if it is anything like Cuban, Cajun or French, I'm sure I will like it.
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 10:22:48 AM
Man, that's nasty, Penguin. :yucky:
It doesn't make you hungry? Means you aren't a zombie. That's good.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 08:48:31 AM
I thought him writing that is odd as well. He is kind of busy after all. Though I would hope that he would already know a bit about Haiti given his Harvard education.
No politician ever writes their own articles. In the UK it's quite common for ministers and even the Prime Minister to write articles every now and then about different issues. Sometimes it's used to defend existing policy (Alastair Darling), advance an argument (Blair , Cameron) and sometimes to position the pol for the internal party battles (Purnell, Miliband). Is it not done in the US?
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
Anyone know what Haitian food is like? I wouldn't object to tons of Haitians moving to the states for if it will seriously reduce pressure on Haiti's environment for a while. Besides, if it is anything like Cuban, Cajun or French, I'm sure I will like it.
Be prepared for some human dishes. They are on the verge of becoming proficient in preparing them.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
Anyone know what Haitian food is like? I wouldn't object to tons of Haitians moving to the states for if it will seriously reduce pressure on Haiti's environment for a while. Besides, if it is anything like Cuban, Cajun or French, I'm sure I will like it.
I've had Dominican Republic food, but it was a while ago. No idea if it's similar. All I remember was a lot of fried vegetables and cider vinegar.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
Anyone know what Haitian food is like? I wouldn't object to tons of Haitians moving to the states for if it will seriously reduce pressure on Haiti's environment for a while. Besides, if it is anything like Cuban, Cajun or French, I'm sure I will like it.
Wait a minute. You're in favour of a mass influx of Haitians on environmental grounds?
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 03:39:16 PM
Wait a minute. You're in favour of a mass influx of Haitians on environmental grounds?
Massive depopulation is one of the few likely ways that Haiti can be salvaged. Massive war or disaster is the less humane option, and corpses don't send useful remittances back home.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 03:39:16 PM
Wait a minute. You're in favour of a mass influx of Haitians on environmental grounds?
Massive depopulation is one of the few likely ways that Haiti can be salvaged. Massive war or disaster is the less humane option.
Yeah, but it's actually more environmentally destructive to move the Haitians to the United States.
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 05:28:47 PM
Yeah, but it's actually more environmentally destructive to move the Haitians to the United States.
:huh:
Presumably it would be a population of just a few million spread across all the major cities in all net-immigrant-receiving nations, with a focus on the Francophone zone. Not 3 million Haitians suddenly showing up in New York or Chicago.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 05:31:11 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 05:28:47 PM
Yeah, but it's actually more environmentally destructive to move the Haitians to the United States.
:huh:
Presumably it would be a population of just a few million spread across all the major cities in all net-immigrant-receiving nations, with a focus on the Francophone zone. Not 3 million Haitians suddenly showing up in New York or Chicago.
3 million Americans, no matter how they are distributed, are far more damaging to the environment than any amount of Haitians.
I would rather imagine that few francophone nations are fond of the idea of absorbing large numbers of criminals.
Perhaps we could send them to Liberia?
Quote3 million Americans, no matter how they are distributed, are far more damaging to the environment than any amount of Haitians.
To Haiti's environment? I'm mostly concerned about that. There is more than enough relatively pristine land here.
Quote
I would rather imagine that few francophone nations are fond of the idea of absorbing large numbers of criminals.
Well, either they start having tons of unprotected heterosexual sex without later having abortions, or they start importing labor.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 05:41:55 PM
Quote3 million Americans, no matter how they are distributed, are far more damaging to the environment than any amount of Haitians.
To Haiti's environment? I'm mostly concerned about that. There is more than enough relatively pristine land here.
The more people living first world lifestyles, the more of Haiti's environment ends up underwater.
QuoteQuote
I would rather imagine that few francophone nations are fond of the idea of absorbing large numbers of criminals.
Well, either they start having tons of unprotected heterosexual sex without later having abortions, or they start importing labor.
Out of the civilized francophone cultures, France already has Muslims to bring in. Wallonia and Quebec can parasitize more successful cultures.
Population of Ethiopia (est)
2008: 82.5 million
1990: 51.7 million
1984: 42 million
This in a country that we've been led to believe has suffered greviously from starvation and famine the last 20 years. Yet still somehow managed to turn 40 million into 80 million in less than 30 years.
Now, Queequeg, if you believe that moving any number of people "to set things right" would result in anything but a temporary difference, I rescind my previous statement. You're stupid.
To elaborate further:
Haiti, 1984: 5 million
2010: 7 million
And to compare:
Sweden, 1984: 8.3 million
2010: 9.3 million
Your proposed population transfer does nothing to change the situation in Haiti, nor does it do anything to change the situation in Morocco, Pakistan, Kenya or any other massproducer of emigrants. It does everything for the individual migrant, but to propose that it changes anything for the better on a macro scale is just too retarded to even take seriously.
France might be better off with black-skinned crypto-Catholics than black-skinned Muslims, as far as social cohesion goes.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 17, 2010, 05:58:44 PM
France might be better off with black-skinned crypto-Catholics than black-skinned Muslims, as far as social cohesion goes.
Not really. They'd be pretty much the same. For some reason, black skin = criminal.
I commit crimes daily.
Quote from: garbon on January 17, 2010, 06:06:02 PM
I commit crimes daily.
Not least of all your crimes against taste, Rainbow Brite.
Crimes against nature. -_-
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 05:58:10 PM
Your proposed population transfer does nothing to change the situation in Haiti, nor does it do anything to change the situation in Morocco, Pakistan, Kenya or any other massproducer of emigrants. It does everything for the individual migrant, but to propose that it changes anything for the better on a macro scale is just too retarded to even take seriously.
I don't really want to argue with you as you are a racist retard, but here you are just very obviously wrong. Immigrants send money to their home countries, take themselves and their children out of the overpopulated area, and can also bring with them ideas and some of the culture from the new country; look at the American impact on southern Italy and Sicily, or almost all of Mexico.
But besides, I think Haiti is in some sense a special case, as there is plenty of forest just across the border in the Dominican Republic. Just have a hyper-aggressive re-forestation program throughout the border region, combined with education in family planning and emigration. Probably Haiti's only long-term hope.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 17, 2010, 05:58:44 PM
France might be better off with black-skinned crypto-Catholics than black-skinned Muslims, as far as social cohesion goes.
Crypto-Catholics who already speak French. Kind of.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 07:07:48 PM
But besides, I think Haiti is in some sense a special case, as there is plenty of forest just across the border in the Dominican Republic. Just have a hyper-aggressive re-forestation program throughout the border region, combined with education in family planning and emigration. Probably Haiti's only long-term hope.
How will reforestation help Haiti?
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:11:24 PM
How will reforestation help Haiti?
1) Tourism
2) Bring nutrients back to land
3) Reduce effects of mudslides and storms
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 05:58:10 PM
To elaborate further:
Haiti, 1984: 5 million
2010: 7 million
And to compare:
Sweden, 1984: 8.3 million
2010: 9.3 million
Haiti has 9 million people.
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
video here
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/01/keen-on-death-toll-prepared-for-the-worst-150000-to-200000-a-start-point.html
I'm not surprised since it seems to mean that previous estimates were only for the capital while cities and towns for a 100-200 miles were also devastated.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:11:24 PM
How will reforestation help Haiti?
1) Tourism
2) Bring nutrients back to land
3) Reduce effects of mudslides and storms
1) You don't need forests to build heavily guarded resorts.
2) Ususable nutrients.
3) Now that actually is useful.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
Trusting the US military to acurately count the dead is unwise. I wonder if they counted drag marks and blood trails?
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
Trusting the US military to acurately count the dead is unwise. I wonder if they counted drag marks and blood trails?
:rolleyes:
This isn't Vietnam.
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
Trusting the US military to acurately count the dead is unwise. I wonder if they counted drag marks and blood trails?
Only if they put the Ace of Spades on each body.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
Trusting the US military to acurately count the dead is unwise. I wonder if they counted drag marks and blood trails?
:rolleyes:
This isn't Vietnam.
Same retarded military. Same retarded mentality.
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
Trusting the US military to acurately count the dead is unwise. I wonder if they counted drag marks and blood trails?
True. American casualty estimates are normally a lot lower than the actual.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 07:07:48 PM
I don't really want to argue with you as you are a racist retardI obviously can't, since here you I am just very obviously wrong.
FYP.
QuoteImmigrants send money to their home countries, take themselves and their children out of the overpopulated area, and can also bring with them ideas and some of the culture from the new country; look at the American impact on southern Italy and Sicily, or almost all of Mexico.
You're using two regions riddled with organized crime as your supporting argument? :lmfao:
You MAYBE have a point about the sending money home, but then you will have to show that it actually happens on a large enough scale to make a real difference in the originating country's economy.
Somalia sees about USD700 million every year in hawala transferrals from UK for instance, but much (most?) of it presumably ends up in the pockets of warlords and terrorists with little improvement in sight.
QuoteBut besides, I think Haiti is in some sense a special case, as there is plenty of forest just across the border in the Dominican Republic. Just have a hyper-aggressive re-forestation program throughout the border region, combined with education in family planning and emigration. Probably Haiti's only long-term hope.
I don't disagree that many third world countries suffer under the weight of overpopulation given their poor infrastructures and inability to maintain a good lifestyle for their populations.
I think you're bumfuck retarded for believing that taking one individual out of thirdworldistan means that they have one less mouth to feed, rather than as in reality simply get more room to pop out more thirdworldistanis.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:16:29 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 05:58:10 PM
To elaborate further:
Haiti, 1984: 5 million
2010: 7 million
And to compare:
Sweden, 1984: 8.3 million
2010: 9.3 million
Haiti has 9 million people.
I stand corrected. It only makes my point the more strong, however.
The regrowth potential of these populations is obviously tremendous, especially considering all the talk of starvation and poverty.
Any population that can be more than doubled in a generation is obviously not starving, and moving large portions of it elsewhere without also somehow curtailing the room for regrowth (perhaps with a programme of enforced sterilization? Queequeg? Perhaps that could work? Humane enough for you?) will simply create a situation where some other nation has to feed that group, and the original problem will be back in short order.
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:25:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:23:05 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2010, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
Lt. General Keen says that estimates of 150-200,000 are a start point. :(
Trusting the US military to acurately count the dead is unwise. I wonder if they counted drag marks and blood trails?
:rolleyes:
This isn't Vietnam.
Same retarded military. Same retarded mentality.
The military was comprehensively reformed after the war.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 17, 2010, 07:57:05 PM
The military was comprehensively reformed after the war.
Yep. But it's still the same military, and still rather inept.
60 Minutes also had a story on Haiti and had some delightful footage of a bulldozer scooping up bodies from the street and a doctor amputating a baby's leg with a hacksaw.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2010, 09:01:25 PM
60 Minutes also had a story on Haiti and had some delightful footage of a bulldozer scooping up bodies from the street and a doctor amputating a baby's leg with a hacksaw.
Your definition of delightful is different then mine.
WHAT THE FUCK!!!?
If cruise ships can dock there why can't cargo ships carrying aid and supplies dock there? If there's only room for one ship at a time make the Cruise ships skip that destination for a few weeks.
MONSTROUS!!! :angry::angry::angry:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/cruise-ships-haiti-earthquake
Quote
Cruise ships still find a Haitian berth
Luxury liners are still docking at private beaches near Haiti's devastated earthquake zone for holidaymakers to enjoy the water
Sixty miles from Haiti's devastated earthquake zone, luxury liners dock at private beaches where passengers enjoy jet ski rides, parasailing and rum cocktails delivered to their hammocks.
The 4,370-berth Independence of the Seas, owned by Royal Caribbean International, disembarked at the heavily guarded resort of Labadee on the north coast on Friday; a second cruise ship, the 3,100-passenger Navigator of the Seas is due to dock.
The Florida cruise company leases a picturesque wooded peninsula and its five pristine beaches from the government for passengers to "cut loose" with watersports, barbecues, and shopping for trinkets at a craft market before returning on board before dusk. Safety is guaranteed by armed guards at the gate.
The decision to go ahead with the visit has divided passengers. The ships carry some food aid, and the cruise line has pledged to donate all proceeds from the visit to help stricken Haitians. But many passengers will stay aboard when they dock; one said he was "sickened".
"I just can't see myself sunning on the beach, playing in the water, eating a barbecue, and enjoying a cocktail while [in Port-au-Prince] there are tens of thousands of dead people being piled up on the streets, with the survivors stunned and looking for food and water," one passenger wrote on the Cruise Critic internet forum.
"It was hard enough to sit and eat a picnic lunch at Labadee before the quake, knowing how many Haitians were starving," said another. "I can't imagine having to choke down a burger there now.''
Some booked on ships scheduled to stop at Labadee are afraid that desperate people might breach the resort's 12ft high fences to get food and drink, but others seemed determined to enjoy their holiday."I'll be there on Tuesday and I plan on enjoying my zip line excursion as well as the time on the beach," said one.
The company said the question of whether to "deliver a vacation experience so close to the epicentre of an earthquake" had been subject to considerable internal debate before it decided to include Haiti in its itineraries for the coming weeks.
"In the end, Labadee is critical to Haiti's recovery; hundreds of people rely on Labadee for their livelihood," said John Weis, vice-president. "In our conversations with the UN special envoy of the government of Haiti, Leslie Voltaire, he notes that Haiti will benefit from the revenues that are generated from each call ...
"We also have tremendous opportunities to use our ships as transport vessels for relief supplies and personnel to Haiti. Simply put, we cannot abandon Haiti now that they need us most."
"Friday's call in Labadee went well," said Royal Caribbean. "Everything was open, as usual. The guests were very happy to hear that 100% of the proceeds from the call at Labadee would be donated to the relief effort."
Forty pallets of rice, beans, powdered milk, water, and canned foods were delivered on Friday, and a further 80 are due and 16 on two subsequent ships. When supplies arrive in Labadee, they are distributed by Food for the Poor, a longtime partner of Royal Caribbean in Haiti.
Royal Caribbean has also pledged $1m to the relief effort and will spend part of that helping 200 Haitian crew members.
The company recently spent $55m updating Labadee. It employs 230 Haitians and the firm estimates 300 more benefit from the market. The development has been regarded as a beacon of private investment in Haiti; Bill Clinton visited in October. Some Haitians have decried the leasing of the peninsula as effective privatisation of part of the republic's coastline.
:huh: Relax. The cruise ship brought supplies in.
Last night I devoured a packet of "Maryland" cookies, probably around the same time some poor Haitian died from injuries sustained in the american test firing of their earthquake machine.
I did not consider the plight of the haitians, and this article certainly makes me feel very guilty about that.
I'm sure you have a shrine to the Haitians, Timmay, and that you're observing a fast in recognition to their struggling? I don't see how you could eat, after all, knowing that they don't.
Someone real hard core would also cut themselves, but I know you're too weak for that.
Lord knows, the best way to deal with natural disaster is completely cutting off all financial transactions with the country afflicted, since all transactions are done with the purpose of making money or enjoying oneself, and it would be morally wrong to make money or enjoy oneself while people are suffering. :yes:
I suggest an embargo on Haiti.
Quote from: Caliga on January 18, 2010, 06:25:25 AM
:huh: Relax. The cruise ship brought supplies in.
A pittance.
I got such a huge amount of french fries for my lunch today that i simply threw out almost half of it.
Relax, Timmy. Haiti's road are so bad that it takes 8 to 10h for a 200km ride. Docking supplies ship in that Harbor is a waste of everybody's time.
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 07:51:14 PMYou MAYBE have a point about the sending money home, but then you will have to show that it actually happens on a large enough scale to make a real difference in the originating country's economy.
Many countries with significative populations abroad have that as one of their main sources of foreign currency, sometimes even their first source. Off the top of my head, Senegal and Ecuador are two culprits of that.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2010, 12:12:31 AM
If cruise ships can dock there why can't cargo ships carrying aid and supplies dock there? If there's only room for one ship at a time make the Cruise ships skip that destination for a few weeks.
Most probably the cruise ships don't dock in the harbours, but stay away from the coastline and take people to land in smaller auxiliary vessels. Obviously you can't do that with a container ship and transfer cargo that way, but you can do that with people and small loads.
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 07:55:35 PM
I stand corrected. It only makes my point the more strong, however.
The regrowth potential of these populations is obviously tremendous, especially considering all the talk of starvation and poverty.
Any population that can be more than doubled in a generation is obviously not starving, and moving large portions of it elsewhere without also somehow curtailing the room for regrowth (perhaps with a programme of enforced sterilization? Queequeg? Perhaps that could work? Humane enough for you?) will simply create a situation where some other nation has to feed that group, and the original problem will be back in short order.
Nope, it's not like that. It's actually a valid reproductive strategy from an ecological pov, and one you can find in many under-developed countries, although in the case of humans there are more issues to be considered. By breeding large offsprings when there's big mortality amongst the population, you maximize the chance of at least some of them reaching adult life. If they only had smaller offsprings, and they died anyway from some other reason (disease, violent death, etc.), all their efforts would be wasted. It's not just about resources, although they also count.
Can't believe cruise liners are still taking vacationers to Haiti. I know, what difference does it make if they're sunbathing in Haiti or in the DR. But it's a principle. I love the "toss the bone" thing..."We're bringing in supplies." Right. Very nice
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 07:07:48 PM
can also bring with them ideas and some of the culture from the new country; look at the American impact on southern Italy and Sicily, or almost all of Mexico.
American cultural influence in Sicily and Southern Italy is mostly explained through the presence of troops there in WWII, and the occupation afterwards, not because of emigration.
Quote from: The Larch on January 18, 2010, 09:45:25 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 07:07:48 PM
can also bring with them ideas and some of the culture from the new country; look at the American impact on southern Italy and Sicily, or almost all of Mexico.
American cultural influence in Sicily and Southern Italy is mostly explained through the presence of troops there in WWII, and the occupation afterwards, not because of emigration.
This seems fair, although I think that the Italian-American population has, at least since then, existed in a dialog with the mother country far more than most immigrant groups from Europe.
Quote from: The Larch on January 18, 2010, 09:41:19 AM
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 07:55:35 PM
I stand corrected. It only makes my point the more strong, however.
The regrowth potential of these populations is obviously tremendous, especially considering all the talk of starvation and poverty.
Any population that can be more than doubled in a generation is obviously not starving, and moving large portions of it elsewhere without also somehow curtailing the room for regrowth (perhaps with a programme of enforced sterilization? Queequeg? Perhaps that could work? Humane enough for you?) will simply create a situation where some other nation has to feed that group, and the original problem will be back in short order.
Nope, it's not like that. It's actually a valid reproductive strategy from an ecological pov, and one you can find in many under-developed countries, although in the case of humans there are more issues to be considered. By breeding large offsprings when there's big mortality amongst the population, you maximize the chance of at least some of them reaching adult life. If they only had smaller offsprings, and they died anyway from some other reason (disease, violent death, etc.), all their efforts would be wasted. It's not just about resources, although they also count.
Since I haven't formally studied the subject, I am naturally not going to have all the facts.
I'm still at a loss as to how a starving population can double in a generation.
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 09:44:53 AM
Can't believe cruise liners are still taking vacationers to Haiti. I know, what difference does it make if they're sunbathing in Haiti or in the DR. But it's a principle. I love the "toss the bone" thing..."We're bringing in supplies." Right. Very nice
Your kind is all about gestures, face and doing what looks and feels good rather than what actually is good. I am not surprised by these sentiments.
"Eat your dinner, children in africa are starving" :rolleyes:
I think a lot of sensible people, arguably not so much on this forum, would be appalled by the very idea of lying on a beach in Haiti right now. I agree, its symbolic and that lying on a beach in Florida doesn't change anything, but there's something immorally wrong about it. But maybe it's just me.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 18, 2010, 09:48:27 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 18, 2010, 09:45:25 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 17, 2010, 07:07:48 PM
can also bring with them ideas and some of the culture from the new country; look at the American impact on southern Italy and Sicily, or almost all of Mexico.
American cultural influence in Sicily and Southern Italy is mostly explained through the presence of troops there in WWII, and the occupation afterwards, not because of emigration.
This seems fair, although I think that the Italian-American population has, at least since then, existed in a dialog with the mother country far more than most immigrant groups from Europe.
I'd say that the dialog you talk about would act more as a way of the emigrant population to remain in touch with the home country, rather than the other way around, although communication would obviously go in both directions.
Quote from: Slargos on January 18, 2010, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 18, 2010, 09:41:19 AM
Quote from: Slargos on January 17, 2010, 07:55:35 PM
I stand corrected. It only makes my point the more strong, however.
The regrowth potential of these populations is obviously tremendous, especially considering all the talk of starvation and poverty.
Any population that can be more than doubled in a generation is obviously not starving, and moving large portions of it elsewhere without also somehow curtailing the room for regrowth (perhaps with a programme of enforced sterilization? Queequeg? Perhaps that could work? Humane enough for you?) will simply create a situation where some other nation has to feed that group, and the original problem will be back in short order.
Nope, it's not like that. It's actually a valid reproductive strategy from an ecological pov, and one you can find in many under-developed countries, although in the case of humans there are more issues to be considered. By breeding large offsprings when there's big mortality amongst the population, you maximize the chance of at least some of them reaching adult life. If they only had smaller offsprings, and they died anyway from some other reason (disease, violent death, etc.), all their efforts would be wasted. It's not just about resources, although they also count.
Since I haven't formally studied the subject, I am naturally not going to have all the facts.
I'm still at a loss as to how a starving population can double in a generation.
Obviously those populations aren't in a constant state of famine, those would be sporadic. Also, famines don't affect whole countries, but parts of them, so only part of their population is subject to them.
Edit: For instance, in the case of Ethiopia, the last big episode of famine was between 84 and 86, because of a combination of drought, plagues and civil war. Before the famine there were around 30 millions of Ethiopians, out of which around 8 million suffered the famine, with 1 million of them dieing from it. After the famine, population rose and nowadays there are around 75 million Ethiopians, due to huge birth rates (5.4 children per woman), compensated by hideous child mortality (7.7%) and very low life expectancy (47 years for males and barely 50 for women).
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 10:03:24 AM
I think a lot of sensible people, arguably not so much on this forum, would be appalled by the very idea of lying on a beach in Haiti right now. I agree, its symbolic and that lying on a beach in Florida doesn't change anything, but there's something immorally wrong about it. But maybe it's just me.
I am confident it's not just you. People respond to sentimental symbolism.
95% of "children" arriving as refugees to sweden without their legal guardian are male, and while some of them are children legally speaking (15-17) a lot are 19-24 and some are categorized as children though they are clearly in their 30s.
What does the propaganda commercials on TV and in newspaper use as their poster child however? A 12 year old girl.
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on January 17, 2010, 06:52:01 AM
I will just leave this here...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg10.imageshack.us%2Fimg10%2F1875%2F1263725476636.jpg&hash=49a10294f8773bc9475efa1d57c8821e5f9939f9)
Wow, that's a lot of future zombis. Zombi apocalypse is nigh upon us! :cry:
And not a minute too soon, Chavez weighs in:
QuoteUS denies 'Haiti occupation'
Haitian police are stretched thin as violence spreads across the capital [EPA]
The US is prepared to "augment" UN and Haitian government forces if they need help with security, but has denied its military has taken charge of the earthquake-devastated Caribbean nation.
Speaking to Al Jazeera, PJ Crowley, a spokesman for the US state department, rejected suggestions said that US military needs were taking priority over the needs of quake survivors.
Send your pictures
Send us your videos, pictures and comments
"The democratically-elected government of Haiti is in charge," he said.
"This is an international effort, the US is not in charge here, the government of Haiti is in charge, the UN is in charge - we're supporting them."
His comments followed criticism from foreign governments and aid groups that the US has prioritised military needs instead of humanitarian ones after taking over operations at the Haitian capital's airport.
'US occupation'
On Sunday Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, accused the US military of occupying Haiti and said Daniel Ortega, the Nicaraguan president, was also concerned about the US deployment.
"It appears that the United States is occupying Haiti militarily, taking advantage of the tragedy," Chavez said on his weekly television show.
The Venezuelan leader's comments are an indication of the sensitivity of US soldiers operating in a Caribbean state where they have intervened in the past.
Nearly 13,000 US troops will be sent to the area by Monday and Barack Obama, the US president, has mobilised military reserves to help in the Haiti operation.
The move was "necessary to augment the active armed forces of the United States for the effective conduct of operational missions, including those involving humanitarian assistance, related to relief efforts in Haiti," Obama wrote in a presidential order.
Emphasising that the US was supporting the Haitian government's "vision of rebuilding" the country and following its priorities, Crowley said it was "absolutely not true" that US military planes with troops were being allowed to land at the airport while those carrying aid supplies were not.
"They are bringing in aid, communications gear for the Haitian government so they can begin to operate and function once again," he said.
Crowley added that the US was "prepared to augment UN and Haiti forces if they need help, but for now, they are there for a humanitarian mission only."
Critical component
But Lieutenant-General Ken Keen, commander of the US military operation in Haiti, told ABC's This Week programme that the military was going to have to play a security role.
"We are here principally for a humanitarian assistance operation, but security is a critical component," he said.
Fights over food and water have broken out among quake survivors [Reuters]
His comments came as Rene Preval, the Haitian president, told reporters on Sunday that 3,500 US troops would be deployed to help UN and Haitian forces restore security in the capital.
With Haitian police and UN peacekeepers stretched thin and survivors becoming more desperate by the day, reports described growing incidents of violence across the devastated capital.
In some cases survivors fought each other with knives, hammers and rocks in fights over food and water, while police tried to disperse them with gunfire.
At least two people were shot dead on Sunday, witnesses said.
"We have 2,000 police in Port-au-Prince who are severely affected. And 3,000 bandits escaped from prison. This gives you an idea of how bad the situation is," said Preval, who has already given the US military control over the airport.
The US military's Southern Command said on Sunday that some 1,000 US troops had been put on the ground in Haiti, with another 4,000 stationed on vessels offshore.
A further 7,500 troops were set to arrive by Monday.
:lol: Yep, that's it Hugo. We're really taking advantage of the situation, having coveted Haiti for quite some time.
Quote from: Drakken on January 18, 2010, 11:03:59 AM
Wow, that's a lot of future zombis. Zombi apocalypse is nigh upon us! :cry:
Mister, I don't like your attitude.
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 09:44:53 AM
Can't believe cruise liners are still taking vacationers to Haiti. I know, what difference does it make if they're sunbathing in Haiti or in the DR. But it's a principle. I love the "toss the bone" thing..."We're bringing in supplies." Right. Very nice
Because what the Haitian economy really needs is for tourism to end?
Haiti, a state before Puerto Rico?
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2010, 11:51:16 AM
:lol: Yep, that's it Hugo. We're really taking advantage of the situation, having coveted Haiti for quite some time.
The tears of foreign brown/black children power our empire.
Plus, oppression is just fun!
Quote from: Faeelin on January 18, 2010, 11:57:29 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 09:44:53 AM
Can't believe cruise liners are still taking vacationers to Haiti. I know, what difference does it make if they're sunbathing in Haiti or in the DR. But it's a principle. I love the "toss the bone" thing..."We're bringing in supplies." Right. Very nice
Because what the Haitian economy really needs is for tourism to end?
those cruiss ships don't do squat for the Haitian economy. People leave the boat, spend an afternoon on a private, secluded beach, and head back onto the boat.
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 12:08:46 PM
those cruiss ships don't do squat for the Haitian economy. People leave the boat, spend an afternoon on a private, secluded beach, and head back onto the boat.
So they don't spend any money while they're there, no Haitians are employed, and Haiti collects no tax revenue? :huh:
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2010, 12:11:16 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 12:08:46 PM
those cruiss ships don't do squat for the Haitian economy. People leave the boat, spend an afternoon on a private, secluded beach, and head back onto the boat.
So they don't spend any money while they're there, no Haitians are employed, and Haiti collects no tax revenue? :huh:
From what I've read Royal Caribbean has its own people there, mostly not Haitian.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 18, 2010, 11:59:41 AM
The tears of foreign brown/black children power our empire.
Plus, oppression is just fun!
:thumbsup:
QuoteRoyal Caribbean has also pledged $1m to the relief effort and will spend part of that helping 200 Haitian crew members.
The company recently spent $55m updating Labadee. It employs 230 Haitians and the firm estimates 300 more benefit from the market. The development has been regarded as a beacon of private investment in Haiti; Bill Clinton visited in October. Some Haitians have decried the leasing of the peninsula as effective privatisation of part of the republic's coastline.
$1m > 0
200 haitian employees > 0
But don't let FACTS get in the way of OUTRAGED OPINION
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressen.se%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1849408%21slot100slotWide75ArticleFull%2F3447786819.jpg&hash=9a1a4d58d2cbaa2f3f0fa79ea9dac94182215c25)
And now they've given up trying to find survivors in some places, and are simply setting fire to the ruins. I suppose to stop the spread of disease but I don't even want to think about the people who have survived this far only to be roasted alive. :(
Quote from: Slargos on January 18, 2010, 12:25:54 PM
QuoteRoyal Caribbean has also pledged $1m to the relief effort and will spend part of that helping 200 Haitian crew members.
The company recently spent $55m updating Labadee. It employs 230 Haitians and the firm estimates 300 more benefit from the market. The development has been regarded as a beacon of private investment in Haiti; Bill Clinton visited in October. Some Haitians have decried the leasing of the peninsula as effective privatisation of part of the republic's coastline.
$1m > 0
Not much more, though
Quote200 haitian employees > 0
Not many more, though
QuoteBut don't let FACTS get in the way of OUTRAGED OPINION
You certainly don't need to remind us of your MO. :hug:
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Slargos on January 18, 2010, 12:25:54 PM
QuoteRoyal Caribbean has also pledged $1m to the relief effort and will spend part of that helping 200 Haitian crew members.
The company recently spent $55m updating Labadee. It employs 230 Haitians and the firm estimates 300 more benefit from the market. The development has been regarded as a beacon of private investment in Haiti; Bill Clinton visited in October. Some Haitians have decried the leasing of the peninsula as effective privatisation of part of the republic's coastline.
$1m > 0
Not much more, though
Quote200 haitian employees > 0
Not many more, though
QuoteBut don't let FACTS get in the way of OUTRAGED OPINION
You certainly don't need to remind us of your MO. :hug:
that 1 million is as much as China gave iirc.
China = fail.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on January 18, 2010, 02:11:17 PM
that 1 million is as much as China gave iirc.
China = fail.
Haiti still recognises Taiwan. In a way it's been good for them because Taiwan and PRC have engaged in something of a humanitarian bidding war.
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
Not much more, though
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the company was actually not a private enterprise, but an aid agency collecting money for the poor and the set upon.
Yes, in that light, $1 million is certainly chump change. They should be ashamed of themselves! :ultra:
QuoteNot many more, though
Agreed! The utter TEMERITY! That they think they can employ ONLY 200 people. FOR SHAME. :ultra:
Or to elaborate: I often find myself disagreeing with you, Grumbler, but I seldom find reason to call any question into your style of argumentation.
This time, however, your post amounts to a spluttering pile of feces.
I hope it was just a momentary lapse of judgement.
So has anyone in Haiti responded positively to the offer of Senegal' president yet? I hear Senegal isn't in a very good situation either. I'm thinking the man wants immigrants that will be followed by donations from the international community. :contract:
Is altruism *ever* something else than disguised self interests?
G.
Quote from: Grallon on January 18, 2010, 04:43:14 PM
So has anyone in Haiti responded positively to the offer of Senegal' president yet? I hear Senegal isn't in a very good situation either. I'm thinking the man wants immigrants that will be followed by donations from the international community. :contract:
Is altruism *ever* something else than disguised self interests?
G.
A nonsensical question, since the answer depends on your definition of altruism.
In the extreme definition, since feeling good about ones actions can be seen as the beneficial cause for said actions, altruism is never altruist.
A better question is surely "Do the mud peoples have it in them to be altruist in any sense of the word?"
I cannot answer that question, of course, I can only ask it. :hmm:
Quote from: Grallon on January 18, 2010, 04:43:14 PMI hear Senegal isn't in a very good situation either. I'm thinking the man wants immigrants that will be followed by donations from the international community. :contract:
What is it you've heard about Senegal?
Quote from: Slargos on January 18, 2010, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
Not much more, though
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the company was actually not a private enterprise, but an aid agency collecting money for the poor and the set upon.
Yes, in that light, $1 million is certainly chump change. They should be ashamed of themselves! :ultra:
QuoteNot many more, though
Agreed! The utter TEMERITY! That they think they can employ ONLY 200 people. FOR SHAME. :ultra:
Or to elaborate: I often find myself disagreeing with you, Grumbler, but I seldom find reason to call any question into your style of argumentation.
This time, however, your post amounts to a spluttering pile of feces.
I hope it was just a momentary lapse of judgement.
It was a joke! :lol:
I thought that last bit would give it away. Maybe not, given the tone here.
Apologies, in that case.
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2010, 05:46:42 PM
It was a joke! :lol:
I thought that last bit would give it away. Maybe not, given the tone here.
Apologies, in that case.
:Embarrass:
"Dude, are you being sarcastic?"
"Dude, I just don't know any more..."
In my defense, I don't think I've ever seen the hugs smilie used in anything but a condescending context here. (And I also thought when writing that last part "Wait a sec, I'm guilty of that quite often, aren't I?" But I decided to let it fly.) :D
I wanna give kudos to the helo pilots I have seen on the TV, BTW. Couldn't tell in all cases whether those were Seahawks (Navy) or Blackhawks (Army) but the pilots were doing an excellenet job, at a fair amopunt of risk, getting low enough to drop supplies without destroying them (but not so low they would get swamped). It would be incredibly easy to catch a bit of FOD and crash, but they stayed in hover at about 8 feet (which is inside ground effect, making it even tougher) until all the supplies were dropped.
Well-done, guys (and also, and maybe especially, to the aircrews, who had to take the same risks without being able to do a damned thing about it if anything went wrong). You make Pappa Grumbler proud.
Quote from: Savonarola on January 18, 2010, 11:45:01 AM
And not a minute too soon, Chavez weighs in:
Chavez is just angry because the US hasn't yet responded to Venezuela's problems, and sent in troops to help out. :ph34r:
Lol.. he is such a loser though. I wonder if he's beginning to smell that sulfur around his Presidential Palace?? :D
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They opened up their airspace.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 18, 2010, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They opened up their airspace.
They know we won't touch them until victory in Iraq and the 'Stan is assured.
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
never trust an American.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 18, 2010, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They opened up their airspace.
*quick google*
Well good on them.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
No kidding. Obama will probably apologize for the embargo.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
Oh yeah right. I know I'd feel safe.
Quote from: Barrister on January 18, 2010, 07:01:38 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 18, 2010, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They opened up their airspace.
*quick google*
Well good on them.
They've also sent medical teams, according to Raul.
(I'll save you the Google)
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2010/enero/lun18/Reflections-16enero.html
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 07:33:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
Oh yeah right. I know I'd feel safe.
The guarantee has been in place for 50 years.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 07:39:04 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 07:33:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
Oh yeah right. I know I'd feel safe.
The guarantee has been in place for 50 years.
Wasn't the guarantee not to invade Cuba made to the Soviet Union though? They don't seem to be around anymore. :hmm:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2010, 08:21:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 07:39:04 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 07:33:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Honeslty, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from my friends Raul and Fidel yet. You'd think they'd be worried about all those US boats just miles from their coastline.
They have a guarantee the US will not invade.
Oh yeah right. I know I'd feel safe.
The guarantee has been in place for 50 years.
Wasn't the guarantee not to invade Cuba made to the Soviet Union though? They don't seem to be around anymore. :hmm:
Thousands of Amreican conspiracy theorists disagree.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2010, 08:21:16 PM
Wasn't the guarantee not to invade Cuba made to the Soviet Union though? They don't seem to be around anymore. :hmm:
The US can barely wage a minor war against Islam far from their shores. Cuba is far too powerful.
Quote from: Neil on January 18, 2010, 08:30:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2010, 08:21:16 PM
Wasn't the guarantee not to invade Cuba made to the Soviet Union though? They don't seem to be around anymore. :hmm:
The US can barely wage a minor war against Islam far from their shores. Cuba is far too powerful.
That Cuban Colonel in Red Dawn was a cunning opponent.
Quote from: Neil on January 18, 2010, 08:30:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2010, 08:21:16 PM
Wasn't the guarantee not to invade Cuba made to the Soviet Union though? They don't seem to be around anymore. :hmm:
The US can barely wage a minor war against Islam far from their shores. Cuba is far too powerful.
:huh:
Cuba's proximity makes it an easier target, not a harder one.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 18, 2010, 09:38:12 PM
Cuba's proximity makes it an easier target, not a harder one.
Not so. Cuba's proximity allows for the possibility that it could strike at the mainland US. Moreover, it has thousands upon thousands of partisans within the US willing to strike at America in the event of hostilities, in the form of college kids.
Quote from: Neil on January 18, 2010, 09:43:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 18, 2010, 09:38:12 PM
Cuba's proximity makes it an easier target, not a harder one.
Not so. Cuba's proximity allows for the possibility that it could strike at the mainland US. Moreover, it has thousands upon thousands of partisans within the US willing to strike at America in the event of hostilities, in the form of college kids.
Everyone who's ever hung a Che poster in his college dorm is officially listed as potential hostiles.
Quote from: Josephus on January 18, 2010, 10:07:38 PM
Everyone who's ever hung a Che poster in his college dorm is officially listed as potential hostiles.
Every retard with a Che t-shirt can be shot on sight.
200,000 Dead, 250,000 Wounded, 1,500,000 Homeless. That's 2.22%, 2.78%, and 16.67% of the population respectively.
That's WWII level casualties inflicted on that country in a single day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
:lol: I spotted a lunatic's blog (the biggest hungarian news site hosts blogs and always links assorted shit from the in its main page) who reasons why the whol thing is a big US conspiracy:
-he quotes some french/german newspaper (not sure, he babelfished it I think) from the 70s, how the American pharma companies were buying blood minerals from haitians in the early 70s (like, haitians went, gave their blood, americans extracted valuable stuff from it to export, gave back rest)
-a CV and 7000 troops "just happen to be near, how convinient". They went to block aid anyways, so more people would die, because:
-Haiti has reserves of: da-da-dam: CALCIUM-CARBONITE!!!!! (sp?)
-there is a swiss scientist under charges for producing an artifical earthquake. CAN YOU PIECE THE PICTURE TOGETHER?!!!!
:lmfao:
:D
What was our motivation supposed to be for Serbia? Lucrative lead mines, something like that?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2010, 05:06:00 AM
:D
What was our motivation supposed to be for Serbia? Lucrative lead mines, something like that?
I once read a book that claimed it was part of a US conspiracy to bring aid agencies under US military control, among other things.
The book was published by Medicines sans frontiers, which is why I no longer donate to them.
Apparently there have been a few problems in coordination efforts, and some countries are blaming the US military for monopolizing the airport of Port au Prince and the landing rights, giving preference to their own planes and diverting those of other countries carrying aid. Apparently France and Brazil have already officially complained and asked for clear roles and priorities to be defined.
If they want to run the show, they can build and deploy their own carrier task force. The only reason anything is getting there is because of the US military, and they know what's needed to keep things running enough to get supplies anywhere, not the French and Brazilian bureaucrats.
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 05:26:10 AM
Apparently there have been a few problems in coordination efforts, and some countries are blaming the US military for monopolizing the airport of Port au Prince and the landing rights, giving preference to their own planes and diverting those of other countries carrying aid. Apparently France and Brazil have already officially complained and asked for clear roles and priorities to be defined.
That seems kind of petty.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2010, 05:06:00 AM
:D
What was our motivation supposed to be for Serbia? Lucrative lead mines, something like that?
Chomsky said it was copper mines I think. Me I think it was an excuse to blow up a Chinese embassy.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 06:14:46 AM
If they want to run the show, they can build and deploy their own carrier task force. The only reason anything is getting there is because of the US military, and they know what's needed to keep things running enough to get supplies anywhere, not the French and Brazilian bureaucrats.
No one is talking about running the show, don't get defensive. What they ask is clear roles and priorities. It's inevitable to have a certain level of chaos and confusion in this kind of things.
Quote from: Tamas on January 19, 2010, 04:57:32 AM
:lol: I spotted a lunatic's blog (the biggest hungarian news site hosts blogs and always links assorted shit from the in its main page) who reasons why the whol thing is a big US conspiracy:
-he quotes some french/german newspaper (not sure, he babelfished it I think) from the 70s, how the American pharma companies were buying blood minerals from haitians in the early 70s (like, haitians went, gave their blood, americans extracted valuable stuff from it to export, gave back rest)
-a CV and 7000 troops "just happen to be near, how convinient". They went to block aid anyways, so more people would die, because:
-Haiti has reserves of: da-da-dam: CALCIUM-CARBONITE!!!!! (sp?)
-there is a swiss scientist under charges for producing an artifical earthquake. CAN YOU PIECE THE PICTURE TOGETHER?!!!!
:lmfao:
Trying to mine iron from blood is really a difficult and round about way of doing it.
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 06:25:40 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 06:14:46 AM
If they want to run the show, they can build and deploy their own carrier task force. The only reason anything is getting there is because of the US military, and they know what's needed to keep things running enough to get supplies anywhere, not the French and Brazilian bureaucrats.
No one is talking about running the show, don't get defensive. What they ask is clear roles and priorities. It's inevitable to have a certain level of chaos and confusion in this kind of things.
I heard that the Israelis have been the most efficient in getting their people in there and setting up. I say we let the Jews run the whole thing.
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 06:25:40 AM
No one is talking about running the show, don't get defensive. What they ask is clear roles and priorities. It's inevitable to have a certain level of chaos and confusion in this kind of things.
This is a different message than the one contained in your previous post.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2010, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 06:25:40 AM
No one is talking about running the show, don't get defensive. What they ask is clear roles and priorities. It's inevitable to have a certain level of chaos and confusion in this kind of things.
This is a different message than the one contained in your previous post.
How so? The bottom line is the same, roles and priorities have to be clarified.
I'm looking for an English language source about this, but I only find snippets. IIRC, the problem arouse after a French cargo plane carrying an emergency field hospital was diverted to the Dominican Republic last saturday because the US military were taking up all the slots, or something.
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 06:48:38 AM
How so? The bottom line is the same, roles and priorities have to be clarified.
I'm looking for an English language source about this, but I only find snippets. IIRC, the problem arouse after a French cargo plane carrying an emergency field hospital was diverted to the Dominican Republic last saturday because the US military were taking up all the slots, or something.
If you complain that the US is monopolizing the airport and giving priority to military planes, that means you think it should be otherwise. That's a different message than asking for clarification of roles and responsibilities.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2010, 06:56:47 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 06:48:38 AM
How so? The bottom line is the same, roles and priorities have to be clarified.
I'm looking for an English language source about this, but I only find snippets. IIRC, the problem arouse after a French cargo plane carrying an emergency field hospital was diverted to the Dominican Republic last saturday because the US military were taking up all the slots, or something.
If you complain that the US is monopolizing the airport and giving priority to military planes, that means you think it should be otherwise. That's a different message than asking for clarification of roles and responsibilities.
The implication is that some of the military flights should have been given lower priority, and that some of the planes that had been diverted given a higher one. Globally, it can be summed up in a call for better coordination. I found this on the issue, from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/18/haiti-aid-distribution-confusion-warning (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/18/haiti-aid-distribution-confusion-warning)
QuoteHaiti aid agencies warn: chaotic and confusing relief effort is costing lives
Operations delayed as vital supplies fail to get through at Port-au-Prince airport
International aid agencies have warned that Haitians are dying needlessly amid "utter chaos" in the organisation of relief efforts after last week's devastating earthquake. Some have called for the US to take direct control over the rescue operation, while others have said the Americans are part of the problem.
A week into the disaster, aid has failed to reach most Haitians amid logistical confusion and disputes over priorities as the population grows ever more desperate.
Médecins sans Frontières says confusion over who is running the relief effort – the US which controls the main airport, or the UN which says it is overseeing distribution – may have led to hundreds of avoidable deaths because it has not been able to get essential supplies in to the country. "The co-ordination ... is not existing or not functioning at this stage," said Benoit Leduc, MSF's operations manager in Port-au-Prince. "I don't really know who is in charge. Between the two systems (the US and the UN) I don't think there is smooth liaison [over] who decides what."
John O'Shea , the head of the Irish medical charity, Goal, echoed the criticism. He said the Haitian earthquake was one of the most difficult disasters his agency had dealt with but at least there were no political obstacles to aid deliveries, as in Burma and Sudan.
"That means there is only one thing stopping a massive and prodigious aid effort being rolled out and that is leadership and co-ordination. You have neither in Haiti at the moment," he said.
"You have the US military doing their thing at the airport. You have the United Nations saying we're in control of food distribution but the United Nations is not taking the pro-active role that they should be taking.
"And you have a Haitian president saying he's in charge and the Americans being politically correct and saying they will work under him. This is all going to lead to a situation of utter chaos. I can't get all my trucks in from the Dominican Republic because I have no guarantee that the people driving them are not going to be macheted to death on the way down. I can't let my doctors and nurses out on the street of Port-au-Prince."
Aid agencies say the US and the UN pay lip service to being under the authority of the Haitian government but President René Préval has little real control.
Préval's role has largely been limited to appealing for assistance and meeting visitors such as the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, and the UN's secretary general, Ban Ki-moon. He has yet to visit the refugee camps packed with his desperate compatriots.
The Haitian prime minister, Jean-Max Bellerive, told the Washington Post the government was "overwhelmed" by the crisis.
That is widely recognised by aid agencies. O'Shea called on the Americans to take charge of the whole operation.
"Obama has to say: I'm in charge lads. Everybody would row in behind him. Like or lump the Americans, they're people who have the ability to get a job done. Somebody, somewhere has to grab this thing by the balls," he said.
A major US aid agency, which declined to be named for political reasons, said it agreed with O'Shea. "It's quite apparent that the Haitian system can't handle this and I don't think there's a lot of confidence in the UN to provide security. It's clear the Americans are the ones to do this. There are of course political sensitivities but I think we're beyond that at the moment. Look at the reaction of ordinary Haitians. They are welcoming the Americans with open arms," said an official with the agency.
Others were more sceptical, saying the oversight of aid operations belongs with the UN. On Monday, France's cooperation minister, Alain Joyandet, criticised the US by saying that aid efforts were supposed to be about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it.
But there is general agreement that someone needs to take charge.
The US has about 1,000 troops in Haiti and another 2,000 are on their way. There are also 9,000 UN peacekeepers and international police officers in the country.
There has been criticism from some aid agencies of the Americans for giving priority to military flights at the airport while planes carrying relief supplies are unable to land. MSF has had five planes turned back from the airport in recent days, three carrying essential medical supplies and two with expert surgical personnel.
"We lost 48 hours because of these access problems," said Leduc. "Of course it is a small airport, but this is clearly a matter of defining priorities."
Asked how many avoidable deaths had been caused by the delays, he said that hundreds of critical lifesaving operations had been delayed by two days.
"We are talking about septicaemia. The morgues in the hospitals are full," he said.
The World Food Programme said today that agreement had been reached that its flights would receive priority landing at Port-au-Prince airport.
Greg Barrow, a WFP spokesman, said the organisation has only been able to distribute with protection from US or UN troops. "We do need security to carry out distributions," he said.
But Barrow said the more immediate obstacle to delivering aid was the logistical difficulty of getting large amounts of food to Haiti because its main airport is small and main port severely damaged. "What we're looking at the moment is opening up as many air, land and sea corridors as possible even to the point of chartering landing vessels and trucks can just drive off on to the beach, a sort of roll-on roll-off mechanism," he said. US officials have made contingency plans to deal with refugees from Haiti although they say there is no sign that a seaborne exodus is imminent.
The homeland security secretary, Janet Napolitano, appealed to Haitians to remain at home.
"Please: If any Haitians are watching, there may be an impulse to leave the island and to come here," she said. "This is a very dangerous crossing. Lives are lost every time people try to make this crossing. Please do not have us divert our necessary rescue and relief efforts that are going into Haiti by trying to leave at this point."
Thousands of Haitians have fled their country and tens of thousands more have been rescued at sea by the US coast guard over the past 20 years.
Bill Clinton, the former president, visited Haiti today in response to a request from Obama for help in fundraising.
The other problem is you have 3 dozen different relief agencies from 10+ countries who all think they need immediate access, as well as various celebrities, media and reporters, and politicians all flying in to do nothing more than talk about how oh-so-sad everything is (and, not coincidentally, get their faces plastered all over the headlines).
What do you think is on these military flights? I imagine that most if not all of it is important cargo or personnel as well.
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 07:07:32 AM
The implication is that some of the military flights should have been given lower priority, and that some of the planes that had been diverted given a higher one. Globally, it can be summed up in a call for better coordination.
Right, that's complaining. Which I think is petty unless it turns out that the US air traffic controllers are fucking over the French and Brazilians out of spite.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2010, 08:15:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 07:07:32 AM
The implication is that some of the military flights should have been given lower priority, and that some of the planes that had been diverted given a higher one. Globally, it can be summed up in a call for better coordination.
Right, that's complaining. Which I think is petty unless it turns out that the US air traffic controllers are fucking over the French and Brazilians out of spite.
Fucking over the French is always justifiable.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 08:16:49 AM
Fucking over the French is always justifiable.
Business before pleasure. :contract:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2010, 08:19:14 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 08:16:49 AM
Fucking over the French is always justifiable.
Business before pleasure. :contract:
Fucking over the French is a strong national priority. Aid to Haiti is a minor vanity project.
Speaking of right-wing douchebags, surprised noone has quote Limbaugh yet:
QuoteBush Pushes Back Against Limbaugh's Obama-Haiti Remark
Former President George W. Bush pushed back Sunday against criticism -- levied most prominently by talk radio host Rush Limbaugh -- that his successor, President Barack Obama, was somehow politicizing the disastrous earthquake in Haiti.
"I don't know if -- what they're talking about," Bush declared during an appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I've been briefed by the President about the response. And as I said in my opening comment, I appreciate the president's quick response to this disaster."
This past week, Limbaugh insisted that the Obama White House would use the catastrophe in Haiti to "burnish" the president's standing and credibility "with the black community, in the both light-skinned and dark-skinned black community, in this country."
"It's made-to-order for 'em," Limbaugh said. "That's why he couldn't wait to get out there. Could not wait to get out there."
Joined by former President Bill Clinton during a series of interviews on the Sunday shows, Bush also touted the need to get relief to the Haitian people, in both a streamlined and responsible way. Asked by host David Gregory if he drew any lessons from the recovery efforts after Hurricane Katrina (widely regarded as tragically bungled), Bush replied:
"First of all, it takes time to get the supplies in place. That shouldn't deter them. In other words, there's an expectation-- amongst people that things are going to happen quickly. And sometimes it's hard to make things happen quickly. Secondly, there is a great reservoir of good will that wants to help. And that's why he asked us to help, and we're glad to do it."
Seriously, for someone who has just had a heart attack, this guy should really care a bit more about his karma. What an asshole.
On the side note Bush's response confirms two things I've always suspected about him: (i) he is a complete doofus who is unable to build a proper sentence, and (ii) he is not a complete douchebag. It's really a pity he was used as a puppet by the likes of Cheney and Rove, and will end up as one of the most reviled men in recent American history.
Bush is a decent guy, just a horrific president. He also realizes that he won't rehabilitate his image by attacking his successor, especially when his successor took over when he had approval ratings down to just nutjobs.
Quote from: The Larch on January 19, 2010, 07:07:32 AM
The implication is that some of the military flights should have been given lower priority, and that some of the planes that had been diverted given a higher one. Globally, it can be summed up in a call for better coordination. I found this on the issue, from the Guardian:
That doesn't make a lot of sense though. I thought the military was being brought in to help clear up the roads and get some organization in place on the ground. Doesn't make sense to fly in an entire field hospital before that task is done; otherwise the hospital just takes up a lot of space on the tarmac.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 19, 2010, 08:08:43 AM
What do you think is on these military flights? I imagine that most if not all of it is important cargo or personnel as well.
The short answer: the Clintons. First Hillary, later Bill + daughter, all there to pat the Haitian President Rene Preval on the shoulder...
So we can add Danny Glover to the nut jobs as well, along with Pat Robertson. So I guess Glover is a left wing nut job, who supports and respects Chavez as well.
A video of what he says is in the link, at the bottom.
Quote
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/01/16/glover-haiti-earthquake-is-the-result-of-failure-to-deal-with-global-warming/
Glover: Haiti Earthquake is the Result of Failure to Deal with Global Warming
First we had Pat Robertson saying that the Haitian earthquake was punishment from God for a pact with the devil. Now Danny Glover seems to say that it is the response for failing to reach a pact on global warming.
Glover told the media:
"What happened in Haiti could happen to anywhere in the Caribbean because all these island nations are in peril because of global warming. When we see what we did at the climate summit in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I'm sayin'?"
No, Danny, I honestly do not know what you are saying. While credible theories abound on the wide array of environmental impacts from global warming, earthquakes are not included in those theories . . . any more than attracting asteroid hits.
In fairness to Glover, he was being rush at the end of an interview. (Though I am a bit perplexed by the suggestion that we are not doing enough given a pledge of $100 million personnel and ships from the U.S.) Glover may have been making a different point that the "response" will likely be needed by more island nations in light of global warming. If that is his point, this is a terrible mangling of words. It is certainly true that, with global warming, we are likely to face greater floods and natural disasters (often not calculated in the costs of dealing with pollution). It is not likely, however, to be like Haiti with an entire city leveled in an earthquake. Still, if that is his meaning, it is a commendable point made in a curious way.
He is being lambasted on both liberal and conservative blogs, so here is the full interview to better understand the meaning in context:
[\quote]
Quote from: The Minsky Moment link=topic=3430.msg179096#msg179096Doesn't make sense to fly in an entire field hospital before that task is done; otherwise the hospital just takes up a lot of space on the tarmac.
Catch 22, by the time the field hospital does get set up many people who could have been saved if the hospital had been set up first will have already died.
Quote from: Martinus on January 19, 2010, 09:07:24 AM
Speaking of right-wing douchebags, surprised noone has quote Limbaugh yet:
Who cares what he has to say?
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 07:39:47 AM
The other problem is you have 3 dozen different relief agencies from 10+ countries who all think they need immediate access, as well as various celebrities, media and reporters, and politicians all flying in to do nothing more than talk about how oh-so-sad everything is (and, not coincidentally, get their faces plastered all over the headlines).
I heard on the news this morning that Canadian troops have identified a landing strip in a more remote area that they can use to bring in aid and supplies so as to avoid the bottle neck. They also have two naval vessals off shore in more remote areas to provide aid and medical assistance.
Hopefully other nations are doing the same.
Quote from: Martinus on January 19, 2010, 09:07:24 AM
Seriously, for someone who has just had a heart attack, this guy should really care a bit more about his karma. What an asshole.
His only fault is in overstating the obvious. Of course the administration will try to milk this for PR. I'm sure most administrations would.
QuoteOn the side note Bush's response confirms two things I've always suspected about him: (i) he is a complete doofus who is unable to build a proper sentence
He's obvious not very articulate, but that doesn't necessarily make him a doofus, or even stupid.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment link=topic=3430.msg179096#msg179096Doesn't make sense to fly in an entire field hospital before that task is done; otherwise the hospital just takes up a lot of space on the tarmac.
Catch 22, by the time the field hospital does get set up many people who could have been saved if the hospital had been set up first will have already died.
Whereas while you're setting up the field hospital, you had to wave off a flight carrying food, or military personnel needed for securing the area, and people will die from starvation or from gang violence.
QuoteI heard on the news this morning that Canadian troops have identified a landing strip in a more remote area that they can use to bring in aid and supplies so as to avoid the bottle neck. They also have two naval vessals off shore in more remote areas to provide aid and medical assistance.
Hopefully other nations are doing the same.
Good.
Quote from: derspiess on January 19, 2010, 12:35:53 PM
His only fault is in overstating the obvious. Of course the administration will try to milk this for PR. I'm sure most administrations would.
Our government certainly is.
But it's still a churlish thing for Rush to say.
Quote from: KRonn on January 19, 2010, 12:17:32 PM
So we can add Danny Glover to the nut jobs as well, along with Pat Robertson. So I guess Glover is a left wing nut job, who supports and respects Chavez as well.
Well, I sort of get what he's saying, that mass displacement and destruction can result from climate change and rising sea levels and whatnot. It's not really all that stupid.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment link=topic=3430.msg179096#msg179096Doesn't make sense to fly in an entire field hospital before that task is done; otherwise the hospital just takes up a lot of space on the tarmac.
Catch 22, by the time the field hospital does get set up many people who could have been saved if the hospital had been set up first will have already died.
Whereas while you're setting up the field hospital, you had to wave off a flight carrying food, or military personnel needed for securing the area, and people will die from starvation or from gang violence.
Yes, you have fully comprehended the meaning of the phrase catch 22. :P
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 02:21:51 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment link=topic=3430.msg179096#msg179096Doesn't make sense to fly in an entire field hospital before that task is done; otherwise the hospital just takes up a lot of space on the tarmac.
Catch 22, by the time the field hospital does get set up many people who could have been saved if the hospital had been set up first will have already died.
Whereas while you're setting up the field hospital, you had to wave off a flight carrying food, or military personnel needed for securing the area, and people will die from starvation or from gang violence.
Yes, you have fully comprehended the meaning of the phrase catch 22. :P
And I didn't even read the book!
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 12:28:21 PM
Catch 22, by the time the field hospital does get set up many people who could have been saved if the hospital had been set up first will have already died.
Not really a Catch-22, because the hospital couldn't have been set up to service those people anyway. No roads means no hospital to the people, and no people to the hospital.
The people who would have died would have been those who needed the water that was delayed in order to fit the hospital into the deployment.
Nobody likes to be delayed, but the whining from MSF is self-serving and therefor as suspect as any other self-serving whining.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 02:21:51 PM
Yes, you have fully comprehended the meaning of the phrase catch 22. :P
Nope, that pretty much misses the meaning completely! :P
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2010, 02:23:54 PM
And I didn't even read the book!
Nobody dumb enough to waste the time needed to comprehend the intricacies of "Catch-22" is smart enough to understand it. :catch22:
I'm completely outraged that an ad-hoc international relief effort isn't running with 100% efficiency :angry:
The US's bungled response to this earthquake is yet another example of Obamatuer's failed presidency. 2012 can't come soon enough!
Quote from: Fate on January 19, 2010, 04:08:17 PM
2013 can't come soon enough!
Fixed. Then we can laugh at all the dopes who thought the world would end.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 19, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: Fate on January 19, 2010, 04:08:17 PM
2013 can't come soon enough!
Fixed. Then we can laugh at all the dopes who thought the world would end.
It will not be the end. Morning in America will arrive when Todd and Sarah liberate Washington from the corrupt liberal big government/big business establishment on January 20th, 2013.
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2010, 03:33:40 PM
Not really a Catch-22, because the hospital couldn't have been set up to service those people anyway. No roads means no hospital to the people, and no people to the hospital.
Not according to the Doctor in Haiti I heard interviewed on the radio this morning. According to her there had been a plan to bring in equipment and surgeons so that additional critical operations could be performed. That plan had been delayed because of the logistical bottlenecks that have formed. The patients are already there and so there is no issue of them getting to the hospital. What they dont have are the extra surgeons and medical equipment needed to perform all the operations that are needed on an urgent basis. Apparently a lot of people are dying because they are not getting the suguries they need.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 19, 2010, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2010, 03:33:40 PM
Not really a Catch-22, because the hospital couldn't have been set up to service those people anyway. No roads means no hospital to the people, and no people to the hospital.
Not according to the Doctor in Haiti I heard interviewed on the radio this morning. According to her there had been a plan to bring in equipment and surgeons so that additional critical operations could be performed. That plan had been delayed because of the logistical bottlenecks that have formed. The patients are already there and so there is no issue of them getting to the hospital. What they dont have are the extra surgeons and medical equipment needed to perform all the operations that are needed on an urgent basis. Apparently a lot of people are dying because they are not getting the suguries they need.
As is to be expected in this sort of situation.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 19, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: Fate on January 19, 2010, 04:08:17 PM
2013 can't come soon enough!
Fixed. Then we can laugh at all the dopes who thought the world would end.
I can't wait till 2112
Quote from: Josephus on January 19, 2010, 05:26:00 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 19, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: Fate on January 19, 2010, 04:08:17 PM
2013 can't come soon enough!
Fixed. Then we can laugh at all the dopes who thought the world would end.
I can't wait till 2112
Uninteresting. I'm really looking forward to 20002012.
It seems that the parents of some college kids that were in the country are getting uppity about the fact that the main thrust of the humanitarian mission hasn't been to locate a few white kids in the middle of the ruins of the country.
Another earthquake (6.1 magnitude) just hit Haiti.
Quote from: Caliga on January 20, 2010, 06:46:57 AM
Another earthquake (6.1 magnitude) just hit Haiti.
now all buildings have decollapsed...
soit, at least everyone is already there so precious time is not lost.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on January 20, 2010, 06:49:35 AM
Quote from: Caliga on January 20, 2010, 06:46:57 AM
Another earthquake (6.1 magnitude) just hit Haiti.
now all buildings have decollapsed...
soit, at least everyone is already there so precious time is not lost.
A clever tactic, to nail all the first responders and irritating celebrities. The Earth makes an excellent terrorist.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2010, 07:35:18 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on January 20, 2010, 06:49:35 AM
Quote from: Caliga on January 20, 2010, 06:46:57 AM
Another earthquake (6.1 magnitude) just hit Haiti.
now all buildings have decollapsed...
soit, at least everyone is already there so precious time is not lost.
A clever tactic, to nail all the first responders and irritating celebrities. The Earth makes an excellent terrorist.
that made me laugh... so wrong :p
Yeah, but that tactic failed to kill Rosie O'Donnell. The Earth has failed me. :(
Damn, can't catch a break.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/)
QuoteBREAKING NEWS
updated 7:33 a.m. ET Jan. 20, 2010
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - A powerful 6.1-magnitude earthquake struck Haiti on Wednesday morning, shaking buildings and sending screaming people running into the streets only eight days after the country's capital was devastated by an apocalyptic quake.
The U.S. Geological Survey said the new quake hit at 6:03 a.m. about 35 miles northwest of the capital of Port-au-Prince. It struck at a depth of 13.7 miles but was too far inland to generate any tidal waves in the Caribbean.
....
It is not just Haitians questioning why aid has been so slow for victims of one of the worst earthquakes in history — an estimated 200,000 dead, 250,000 injured and 1.5 million homeless. Officials in France and Brazil and aid groups such as Doctors Without Borders have complained of bottlenecks, skewed priorities and a crippling lack of leadership and coordination.
"TENS OF THOUSANDS OF EARTHQUAKE VICTIMS NEED EMERGENCY SURGICAL CARE NOW!!!!!" said press a release from Partners in Health, co-founded by Dr. Paul Farmer, the deputy U.N. envoy to Haiti. "Our medical director has estimated that 20,000 people are dying each day who could be saved by surgery." No details were provided on how the figure was determined.
That can't possibly be true can it? I'd normally dismiss such a claim out of hand, but being Haiti I'm merely heavily sceptical.
It can be true. We need to send Alan Alda down there.
Quote from: Caliga on January 20, 2010, 08:13:29 AM
Yeah, but that tactic failed to kill Rosie O'Donnell. The Earth has failed me. :(
Rosie caused the 6.1 magnitude earthquake when she slipped and fell getting off the plane.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 20, 2010, 08:15:32 AM
Damn, can't catch a break.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/)
QuoteBREAKING NEWS
updated 7:33 a.m. ET Jan. 20, 2010
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - A powerful 6.1-magnitude earthquake struck Haiti on Wednesday morning, shaking buildings and sending screaming people running into the streets only eight days after the country's capital was devastated by an apocalyptic quake.
The U.S. Geological Survey said the new quake hit at 6:03 a.m. about 35 miles northwest of the capital of Port-au-Prince. It struck at a depth of 13.7 miles but was too far inland to generate any tidal waves in the Caribbean.
....
It is not just Haitians questioning why aid has been so slow for victims of one of the worst earthquakes in history — an estimated 200,000 dead, 250,000 injured and 1.5 million homeless. Officials in France and Brazil and aid groups such as Doctors Without Borders have complained of bottlenecks, skewed priorities and a crippling lack of leadership and coordination.
"TENS OF THOUSANDS OF EARTHQUAKE VICTIMS NEED EMERGENCY SURGICAL CARE NOW!!!!!" said press a release from Partners in Health, co-founded by Dr. Paul Farmer, the deputy U.N. envoy to Haiti. "Our medical director has estimated that 20,000 people are dying each day who could be saved by surgery." No details were provided on how the figure was determined.
That can't possibly be true can it? I'd normally dismiss such a claim out of hand, but being Haiti I'm merely heavily sceptical.
So, in about 12 days there won't be any injured left to worry about.
Quote from: Jaron on January 20, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
It can be true. We need to send Alan Alda down there.
And BJ, Trapper, and Henry Morgan.
:lol:
QuoteMore than 200,000 Swedes joined a Facebook group claiming to be collecting donations to help earthquake victims in Haiti before it was revealed as a hoax by the "Swedish Necrophilia Association".
Initially named "2kr per medlem till jordbävningsoffren i Haiti" ('2 kronor per member to earthquake victims in Haiti'), the group promised to send 2 kronor ($0.30) per member when the group reached 200,000 members.
However, charity-minded Swedes who joined the group thinking they were helping earthquake received quite a shock when the 200,000-member milestone was reached and it was revealed that the Facebook group had been created by a made-up group calling itself the Swedish Necrophilia Association (Svenska Nekrofil-föreningen).
"As many already know, it is the Swedish Necrophilia Association which is now sending 500,000 kronor to ensure that the bodies which are brought home from Haiti are in as good shape as possible," read the group's Facebook page.
The page also included many disturbing photos, as well as additional text in which the group described the types of bodies its members wanted to have sex with.
Although the group had more than 212,000 members by Tuesday afternoon, its membership tally dwindled as more people were alerted to the scam.
By late Tuesday evening, the group had been removed entirely from the popular social networking site.
In an email to the Svenska Dagbladet (SvD) newspaper, one of the founders of the fake Facebook group explained that the hoax was "to get a good laugh and teach people about critically reviewing their sources".
This only strengthens my beliefs about the Swedes.
Why did they think that joining a group on facebook would suddenly make any person send 400,000 kroner?
No way those were the real SNA.
They've been doing this for quite some time now, they had these "First to 100 000 Sweden vs. Finland" groups and then they changed the name of the swedish one to a group denying the holocaust and the finnish one to "GAY PRIDE HELSINKI 2009"
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 20, 2010, 11:28:38 AM
Quote from: Jaron on January 20, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
It can be true. We need to send Alan Alda down there.
And BJ, Trapper, and Henry Morgan.
Did BJ and Trapper John ever meet? I have a theory that if they were ever face to face, the resulting Sidekick Paradox would have devastating results on the spacetime continuum.
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2010, 07:53:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 20, 2010, 11:28:38 AM
Quote from: Jaron on January 20, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
It can be true. We need to send Alan Alda down there.
And BJ, Trapper, and Henry Morgan.
Did BJ and Trapper John ever meet? I have a theory that if they were ever face to face, the resulting Sidekick Paradox would have devastating results on the spacetime continuum.
No. Unless it was on After MASH.
150,000 victims from the capital have been buried. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 24, 2010, 10:09:10 PM
150,000 victims from the capital have been buried. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
Hopefully they'll get around to doing something about the dead ones as well.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 24, 2010, 10:09:10 PM
150,000 victims from the capital have been buried. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
I hope they bury them far away from where they get their edible clay
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 20, 2010, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2010, 07:53:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 20, 2010, 11:28:38 AM
Quote from: Jaron on January 20, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
It can be true. We need to send Alan Alda down there.
And BJ, Trapper, and Henry Morgan.
Did BJ and Trapper John ever meet? I have a theory that if they were ever face to face, the resulting Sidekick Paradox would have devastating results on the spacetime continuum.
No. Unless it was on After MASH.
No one would know, cause no one saw that travesty.
Quote from: Josephus on January 24, 2010, 10:21:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 20, 2010, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 20, 2010, 07:53:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 20, 2010, 11:28:38 AM
Quote from: Jaron on January 20, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
It can be true. We need to send Alan Alda down there.
And BJ, Trapper, and Henry Morgan.
Did BJ and Trapper John ever meet? I have a theory that if they were ever face to face, the resulting Sidekick Paradox would have devastating results on the spacetime continuum.
No. Unless it was on After MASH.
No one would know, cause no one saw that travesty.
What about Trapper John, MD?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 24, 2010, 10:09:10 PM
150,000 victims from the capital have been buried. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
It's time to start burying the survivors. Much more compassionate than letting them live in Haiti.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 24, 2010, 10:14:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 24, 2010, 10:09:10 PM
150,000 victims from the capital have been buried. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
Hopefully they'll get around to doing something about the dead ones as well.
Nice. :lol:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 24, 2010, 10:09:10 PM
150,000 victims from the capital have been buried. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/
That's such a huge number of victims, and not yet a final tally. So sad. Watching some of the news it seems that there are many mass graves, and it appears that in many cases there's no way to identify the victims. :(
Got paid today. Time to donate.
I've never done this to one off appeals. Brits, is the DEC good?
Is this getting airtime in the US?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8491996.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8491996.stm)
QuoteUS missionaries 'knew they were doing wrong' in Haiti
Haiti's prime minister has criticised 10 US missionaries who were arrested as they tried to take 33 Haitian children out of the earthquake-hit country.
Jean-Max Bellerive described them as "kidnappers" and said they had known "what they were doing was wrong".
He said some of the children had parents who were alive, and that the government was trying to locate them.
A spokeswoman for the missionaries said they had wanted to take the children to an orphanage in the Dominican Republic.
"They really didn't have any paperwork... I did not understand that that would really be required," Laura Silsby told CNN.
"We believe we have been charged very falsely with trafficking. We all gave up everything we had... to come here to help these children and by no means are any part of that horrendous practice."
Yep. It was the lead story on FOXNews at some point yesterday. Naturally I trust my white brethren over the brown pipple even if they are evil missionaries. :)