So, I've been trying to work out this whole "emasculation" thing. I obviously don't get it, and I never have. I'm not 100% sure that there's a way to defeminize a woman, so I don't think I ever will get it on my own. Ergo, I come to you guys.
I've heard the following can - and often does - emasculate a man:
- Earning less than his spouse
- Being too close to his mother
- Being too thin/fat
- Being out-drunk by a woman
What does it take for you to feel "emasculated"? CAN something make you feel less than a man?
Huh. :hmm:
Not sure. But I don't get too wrapped up in my gender-identity. I am just here to do the best I can.
You said Seedy was submissive to all the women in his life. How is that not emasculating?
- Getting beaten by a woman in arm wrestling
- Wearing clothes that match those your SO's wearing
- Watching The Real Housewives of ______
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 11:40:46 AM
So, I've been trying to work out this whole "emasculation" thing. I obviously don't get it, and I never have. I'm not 100% sure that there's a way to defeminize a woman, so I don't think I ever will get it on my own. Ergo, I come to you guys.
I've heard the following can - and often does - emasculate a man:
- Earning less than his spouse
- Being too close to his mother
- Being too thin/fat
- Being out-drunk by a woman
What does it take for you to feel "emasculated"? CAN something make you feel less than a man?
My observation is that males who speak of emasculation are pretty insecure. It has also never made much sense to me. Personally I really enjoyed the years my wife earned more than me - which was a substantial part of the time. It would be great if her income increased to become greater than mine again.
Quote from: Valmy on July 18, 2012, 12:05:17 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 18, 2012, 12:03:03 PM
- Watching The Real Housewives of ______
*shudder*
Once upon a time, I was forced to view several episodes of that a day. Pretty dreadful - especially as there is very little to no eye candy to zone out to.
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 11:40:46 AM
So, I've been trying to work out this whole "emasculation" thing. I obviously don't get it, and I never have. I'm not 100% sure that there's a way to defeminize a woman,
Yes there is. Convincing someone that she is a bad mother.
What I said I wouldn't do in the circumcision thread; though, by saying why I would't do what I was sort of spilling the beans anyways.
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 11:40:46 AM
so I don't think I ever will get it on my own. Ergo, I come to you guys.
I've heard the following can - and often does - emasculate a man:
- Earning less than his spouse
- Being too close to his mother
- Being too thin/fat
- Being out-drunk by a woman
What does it take for you to feel "emasculated"? CAN something make you feel less than a man?
It's the same as the converse with women. It's the feeling that one is not satisfactory as a man. It's not the earning less that is the issue it is the feeling of not be appreciated for the income that is given. It's about the mans self image and which parts of his self image he finds valuable and maintaining it.
I know this is the caveman in me talking, but nothing Cosmo ever writes about men is remotely true nor interesting.
I'm pretty sure a box cutter could. :hmm:
Watching Glee tends to have this effect on me, so much that it makes me feel nauseous. :shutup:
As for men being insecure, most if not all men are insecure. It's not because we aren't crybabies that we are robots, either. If we feel that our manhood is hurt, we'll suffer. But these usually happen when one man feels he is replacable, or because he feels he is not respected or considered up to the task.
Also, I can think of at least three ways to "defeminize" a woman - mostly by attacking her self-esteem or being a complete douchebag, though.
Defemine you? Breast Cancer. Having a bigger Mustache than a man.
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2012, 12:13:41 PM
I'm pretty sure a box cutter could. :hmm:
I was going to mention that but didn't want to be so crass. :D
- Sitting in the passenger seat while a woman drives. Men drive. Women sit on the passenger side and touch up their makeup. That's just the natural order of things. Only exception here is if I'm drunk.
- Relinquishing the remote control. This used to bother me more, but the wife likes watching TV a lot more than I do, so I threw in the towel.
Quote from: Drakken on July 18, 2012, 12:14:14 PM
Watching Glee tends to have this effect on me, so much that it makes me feel nauseous. :shutup:
No shit.
QuoteAlso, I can think of at least three ways to "defeminize" a woman - mostly by attacking her self-esteem or being a complete douchebag, though.
Unfortunately for a lot of women that is the best way to get them to like you.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:18:23 PM
- Sitting in the passenger seat while a woman drives. Men drive. Women sit on the passenger side and touch up their makeup. That's just the natural order of things. Only exception here is if I'm drunk.
- Relinquishing the remote control. This used to bother me more, but the wife likes watching TV a lot more than I do, so I threw in the towel.
Wow I totally fail on both counts :weep:
I hate driving and my wife usually has the remote. She watches a crapload of TV and I do not particularly like TV unless it is sports.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 11:49:27 AM
You said Seedy was submissive to all the women in his life. How is that not emasculating?
Yeah; I'd like to know how having positive, trusting relationships with the women in my family emasculates me, too.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:20:09 PM
Unfortunately for a lot of women that is the best way to get them to like you.
If your aim is to actively seek to make her feel less of a woman, you are actively attempting to hurt her for the sake her hurting her. You are way over demonstrating that you are above her and can put her in her place, and just being a mean motherfucker.
No woman's gonna be attracted to a man calling her "fat" or "small tits" , even he's if Channing Tatum. These are the two insults that will kick a insecure woman into her ovaries as much as actually kicking her between the legs.
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 18, 2012, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2012, 12:13:41 PM
I'm pretty sure a box cutter could. :hmm:
I was going to mention that but didn't want to be so crass. :D
If crassness is required, I can provide!
I take the plunge on behalf of us all. :D
Serious answer though: box-cutters aside, "emasculation" implies something that attacks your role as a man, so what could do it depends entirely on what you think your role as a man is or ought to be at the time (as seperate or in addition to your role as a human being).
Nowadays, that would mostly be for me my role as a father, so anything that attacked my worth as a father would be "emasculating". Provides a bad male role model for my son, that sort of thing.
Stuff like letting my wife drive the car cannot be "emasculating" to me because in my opinion, at least for me, my role as a man does not require being the person who drives the car. :D
Nothing that I can think of.
But if a woman is trying to put me down, it's time for the walking papers, whether the put-downs concern my masculinity or not.
you don't call her fat or flat chest, it's more a case of damning by faint praise.
"are you sure you can still fit in to that dress you used when....."
or
"no dear you don't need implants they are fine"
she'll do all the self recrimination herself from then on desperate to make the man in her life happy with her.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:18:23 PM
- Sitting in the passenger seat while a woman drives. Men drive. Women sit on the passenger side and touch up their makeup. That's just the natural order of things. Only exception here is if I'm drunk.
- Relinquishing the remote control. This used to bother me more, but the wife likes watching TV a lot more than I do, so I threw in the towel.
Not sure if serious.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
But if a woman is trying to put me down, it's time for the walking papers, whether the put-downs concern my masculinity or not.
This. A pattern of insulting behavior is still a pattern of insulting behavior, regardless of who it's from.
You wouldn't take that shit from someone on the street, don't know why anyone would bother putting up with it in an alleged "relationship".
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:18:23 PM
- Sitting in the passenger seat while a woman drives. Men drive. Women sit on the passenger side and touch up their makeup. That's just the natural order of things. Only exception here is if I'm drunk.
- Relinquishing the remote control. This used to bother me more, but the wife likes watching TV a lot more than I do, so I threw in the towel.
neither of those is emasculating.. not being allowed to drive or not being allowed to handle the clicker from time to time is.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
But if a woman is trying to put me down, it's time for the walking papers, whether the put-downs concern my masculinity or not.
This. A pattern of insulting behavior is still a pattern of insulting behavior, regardless of who it's from.
You wouldn't take that shit from someone on the street, don't know why anyone would bother putting up with it in an alleged "relationship".
You tell 'em, sistahs. We don't need to put up with no mens making us feel bad about ourselves.
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2012, 12:35:46 PM
Serious answer though: box-cutters aside, "emasculation" implies something that attacks your role as a man, so what could do it depends entirely on what you think your role as a man is or ought to be at the time (as seperate or in addition to your role as a human being).
Nowadays, that would mostly be for me my role as a father, so anything that attacked my worth as a father would be "emasculating". Provides a bad male role model for my son, that sort of thing.
Stuff like letting my wife drive the car cannot be "emasculating" to me because in my opinion, at least for me, my role as a man does not require being the person who drives the car. :D
I agree, although women also have a social construct, an image, even a fantasy on how a "manly" man should act and behave. While some things may not be emasculating to you, the woman
might see it as such and change her behavior accordingly. Then again, it's where good communication sinks in.
As I've written above, the main unit of measure is respect. It's something that cannot be explained to a woman, you just feel it. You feel secure, you feel on common grounds, and you feel like you have the full support of your woman in your life, and that she counts on you to help her and protect her if she ever needs it.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 12:43:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
But if a woman is trying to put me down, it's time for the walking papers, whether the put-downs concern my masculinity or not.
This. A pattern of insulting behavior is still a pattern of insulting behavior, regardless of who it's from.
You wouldn't take that shit from someone on the street, don't know why anyone would bother putting up with it in an alleged "relationship".
You tell 'em, sistahs. We don't need to put up with no mens making us feel bad about ourselves.
That's some pretty good emasculation right there. :D
You know what would emasculate me? If someone cut off my cock and balls.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 12:40:02 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:18:23 PM
- Sitting in the passenger seat while a woman drives. Men drive. Women sit on the passenger side and touch up their makeup. That's just the natural order of things. Only exception here is if I'm drunk.
- Relinquishing the remote control. This used to bother me more, but the wife likes watching TV a lot more than I do, so I threw in the towel.
Not sure if serious.
MEN DRIVE.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 12:40:02 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 12:18:23 PM
- Sitting in the passenger seat while a woman drives. Men drive. Women sit on the passenger side and touch up their makeup. That's just the natural order of things. Only exception here is if I'm drunk.
- Relinquishing the remote control. This used to bother me more, but the wife likes watching TV a lot more than I do, so I threw in the towel.
Not sure if serious.
MEN DRIVE.
Where are you from again? Like I said it is the insecure ones that are apt to feel emasulated.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoGuyWantsAnAmazon
I think the correct term is de-feminizing for it..
but, good effort from us to manage a Misogyny hi-jack on a Emasculation thread.
Whore cars?
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 18, 2012, 12:54:38 PM
Where are you from again? Like I said it is the insecure ones that are apt to feel emasulated.
Yes, it was nice of him to show up as a case in point.
Quote from: Ideologue on July 18, 2012, 01:00:49 PM
Whore cars?
please tell me more about this apparently fascinating proposition
This thread is a trap.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 18, 2012, 01:06:45 PM
This thread is a trap.
Obviously. Meri's making us spoil the recipe for emasculation, so to learn how to better kick us in the nuts. :console:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 12:30:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 11:49:27 AM
You said Seedy was submissive to all the women in his life. How is that not emasculating?
Yeah; I'd like to know how having positive, trusting relationships with the women in my family emasculates me, too.
That's what I didn't understand! :blink:
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 18, 2012, 12:54:38 PM
Where are you from again? Like I said it is the insecure ones that are apt to feel emasulated.
How long have we known derspeiss? Why are you surprised by this?
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 12:43:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
But if a woman is trying to put me down, it's time for the walking papers, whether the put-downs concern my masculinity or not.
This. A pattern of insulting behavior is still a pattern of insulting behavior, regardless of who it's from.
You wouldn't take that shit from someone on the street, don't know why anyone would bother putting up with it in an alleged "relationship".
You tell 'em, sistahs. We don't need to put up with no mens making us feel bad about ourselves.
Actually, I was defending the concept of domestic violence upon verbally abusive women. Ain't nobody above an ass-beating.
Bitch gonna talk shit, she better be able to back it up.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 18, 2012, 12:54:38 PM
Where are you from again?
Why is that important?
QuoteLike I said it is the insecure ones that are apt to feel emasulated.
I'm not insecure. None of the other stuff mentioned in the thread bothers me. Being the driver is one of those traditional male roles you just don't mess with. Thankfully I have a wife that prefers that I drive. MEN DRIVE.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
Nothing that I can think of.
But if a woman is trying to put me down, it's time for the walking papers, whether the put-downs concern my masculinity or not.
Oh, I agree completely. That should be a given regardless of gender, etc.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:28:11 PM
I'm not insecure. None of the other stuff mentioned in the thread bothers me. Being the driver is one of those traditional male roles you just don't mess with. Thankfully I have a wife that prefers that I drive. MEN DRIVE.
Why?
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:20:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 12:30:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 11:49:27 AM
You said Seedy was submissive to all the women in his life. How is that not emasculating?
Yeah; I'd like to know how having positive, trusting relationships with the women in my family emasculates me, too.
That's what I didn't understand! :blink:
Oh? You said that he was being controlled by people in his family, that's why he likes making women dance barefoot on Micro Machines or whatever that stupid meme is.
How is that not, at least, insulting? :lol:
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:31:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:28:11 PM
I'm not insecure. None of the other stuff mentioned in the thread bothers me. Being the driver is one of those traditional male roles you just don't mess with. Thankfully I have a wife that prefers that I drive. MEN DRIVE.
Why?
Because MEN DRIVE.
Jeez...
Quote from: Ideologue on July 18, 2012, 01:32:22 PM
Oh? You said that he was being controlled by people in his family, that's why he likes making women dance barefoot on Micro Machines or whatever that stupid meme is.
How is that not, at least, insulting? :lol:
:lol: Yes, because I consider my sister my best friend and I don't hate my mother, that's the reason I like to beat asian chicks dressed up like Dorothy from Oz with Hot Wheels tracks. Whodathunkit?
Quote from: Ideologue on July 18, 2012, 01:32:22 PM
Oh? You said that he was being controlled by people in his family, that's why he likes making women dance barefoot on Micro Machines or whatever that stupid meme is.
How is that not, at least, insulting? :lol:
What I said was that it's possible that because he has minimal control when it comes to the women he loves, he wants control where he doesn't care much for them. I know plenty of men like that, and women, for that matter.
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:40:30 PM
What I said was that it's possible that because he has minimal control when it comes to the women he loves, he wants control where he doesn't care much for them. I know plenty of men like that, and women, for that matter.
Just keep digging that hole? :unsure:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 18, 2012, 01:32:22 PM
Oh? You said that he was being controlled by people in his family, that's why he likes making women dance barefoot on Micro Machines or whatever that stupid meme is.
How is that not, at least, insulting? :lol:
:lol: Yes, because I consider my sister my best friend and I don't hate my mother, that's the reason I like to beat asian chicks dressed up like Dorothy from Oz with Hot Wheels tracks. Whodathunkit?
Are the tracks electrified?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:37:21 PM
:lol: Yes, because I consider my sister my best friend and I don't hate my mother, that's the reason I like to beat asian chicks dressed up like Dorothy from Oz with Hot Wheels tracks. Whodathunkit?
Well, everyone else just assumes you like to beat asian chicks dressed up like Dorothy from Oz with Hot Wheels tracks because it's fun. :D
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 01:44:15 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:40:30 PM
What I said was that it's possible that because he has minimal control when it comes to the women he loves, he wants control where he doesn't care much for them. I know plenty of men like that, and women, for that matter.
Just keep digging that hole? :unsure:
:mad:
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:40:30 PM
What I said was that it's possible that because he has minimal control when it comes to the women he loves, he wants control where he doesn't care much for them. I know plenty of men like that, and women, for that matter.
You're probably overthinking it. I don't see much out of the ordinary with how he is with his mom, sister, and nieces. Seems like he just fills his role as son, brother, and uncle the way a guy is supposed to. Not sure I myself would ever be able to skip watching an important football game to take my nieces to a movie, but that may be my own failing as much as it is his.
Now I don't know how he treats other women in his life & I don't care.
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2012, 01:46:45 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:37:21 PM
:lol: Yes, because I consider my sister my best friend and I don't hate my mother, that's the reason I like to beat asian chicks dressed up like Dorothy from Oz with Hot Wheels tracks. Whodathunkit?
Well, everyone else just assumes you like to beat asian chicks dressed up like Dorothy from Oz with Hot Wheels tracks because it's fun. :D
:lol: Seriously, right? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes Hot Wheels tracks are just Hot Wheels tracks.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:28:11 PM
Why is that important?
On the assumption that your views are influenced by your surroundings - just adding it to the list of places to avoid.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:49:36 PM
Not sure I myself would ever be able to skip watching an important football game to take my nieces to a movie, but that may be my own failing as much as it is his.
lol, totally forgot about that. Wasn't a playoff game, and it was getting Tivo'd.
QuoteNow I don't know how he treats other women in his life & I don't care.
There ya go. That's between me, her and the appropriate law enforcement agency.
Don't we already have one thread on BDSM?
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:40:30 PM
What I said was that it's possible that because he has minimal control when it comes to the women he loves, he wants control where he doesn't care much for them. I know plenty of men like that, and women, for that matter.
And on what basis does it exactly warrants this particular psychoanalysis, Mrs. Anna Freud? You don't know jack about him.
Because it sure reads as gratuitous.
That you disguise it under the heading that it's a "possibility" doesn't hide the fact that it was gratuitous and without any basis in reality. I'm not sure I see what CdM has posted that warranted such a diagnosis, except a little machismo and that, by his own admission, he strives to have good relationship with the females of his family. You, somehow, infer that he is a powerless, pussy-whipped momma's boy who seeks power to compensate. That's rather low-blow, and garbon called you on that.
Vagina land just got nuked.
Meri, at the very least the fact that everyone saw the comments as an attack should give you pause :lol:
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 18, 2012, 01:52:43 PM
On the assumption that your views are influenced by your surroundings - just adding it to the list of places to avoid.
You've already wet yourself at the thought of us owning scary guns, so it's probably safe to avoid the entire US.
But since you asked, I grew up in West Virginia, moved to Wilmington, Delaware and lived there for 8 years, and I've lived in Cincinnati for the past 10 years. So avoid Appalachia, the Northeast, and the Midwest.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 01:56:14 PM
lol, totally forgot about that. Wasn't a playoff game, and it was getting Tivo'd.
My mind is a steel trap for trivia. Unfortunately that's not the case when it comes to more important things.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
I have no problem taking shots. i passive aggressively do it all the time :P. They were good shots too, own up to it, don't try to justify them :D
Quote from: Drakken on July 18, 2012, 02:01:51 PM
And on what basis does it exactly warrants this particular psychoanalysis, Mrs. Anna Freud? You don't know jack about him.
Because it sure reads as gratuitous.
That you disguise it under the heading that it's a "possibility" doesn't hide the fact that it was gratuitous and without any basis in reality. I'm not sure I see what CdM has posted that warranted such a diagnosis, except a little machismo and that, by his own admission, he strives to have good relationship with the females of his family. You, somehow, infer that he is a powerless, pussy-whipped momma's boy who seeks power to compensate. That's rather low-blow, and garbon called you on that.
Not sure that Seedy needs your help on this one, Cowboy. Nor do I think he is nearly as worried about being called a pussy-whipped momma's boy as you are.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
But since you asked, I grew up in West Virginia, moved to Wilmington, Delaware and lived there for 8 years, and I've lived in Cincinnati for the past 10 years. So avoid Appalachia, the Northeast, and the Midwest.
Appalachia, the Mid-Atlantic, and the Great Lakes/Rust Belt. :nerd:
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:05:51 PM
Meri, at the very least the fact that everyone saw the comments as an attack should give you pause :lol:
:whistle:
You know, that's kinda' why I started
this thread.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 02:21:29 PM
Appalachia,
Correct.
Quotethe Mid-Atlantic,
Also correct, but so am I when I say northeast. Wilmington is a suburb of Philly.
Quoteand the Great Lakes/Rust Belt. :nerd:
Incorrect. I'd consider the northeast part of Ohio to be the rust belt part, and I'm not much closer to the Great Lakes region than you are. I know you hicks out in corn country don't consider us Midwest, but Cincinnati is Midwest. Deal with it :)
It's east of the Mississippi-- it's not the midwest it's the mideast.
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 11:40:46 AM
What does it take for you to feel "emasculated"? CAN something make you feel less than a man?
driving a german sedan instead of an american muscle car :(
as to the question at hand, the universal emasculation: Laughing at a guys dick :D
Quote from: Maximus on July 18, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
It's east of the Mississippi-- it's not the midwest it's the mideast.
Good luck with that.
Quote from: Maximus on July 18, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
It's east of the Mississippi-- it's not the midwest it's the mideast.
The term stems from a time when the center of population in the country was roughly Cincinnati.
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
as to the question at hand, the universal emasculation: Laughing at a guys dick :D
A giggle stifled a fraction of a second too late is even worse. :(
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:05:51 PM
Meri, at the very least the fact that everyone saw the comments as an attack should give you pause :lol:
:whistle:
You know, that's kinda' why I started this thread.
I know and that's why unlike everyone else, I called you out on that on the first page of this thread. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
Way to be submissive and deferential to yet another woman in your life.
:lol:
Quote from: DGuller on July 18, 2012, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
as to the question at hand, the universal emasculation: Laughing at a guys dick :D
A giggle stifled a fraction of a second too late is even worse. :(
"is it in yet" So many ways to truely wound a man :D
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 02:20:22 PM
Not sure that Seedy needs your help on this one, Cowboy. Nor do I think he is nearly as worried about being called a pussy-whipped momma's boy as you are.
Garbon called on you because your post to CdM was harsh and gratuitous. I take time to tell you exactly why your comment was perceived as an attack, and why it was perceived as a low-blow. I call on you because your passive-aggressive, and frankly cunt attitude, sucks. Your last post just proves to me that you can't stand the heat of being criticized, because nowhere I was insulting you.
That you like me or not, I don't give a damn about it. You should reread your posts and understand why some people make a fuss. What you do with it, though, is your business. If your only resort is to insult those who disagree with you, then I rest my case.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
Way to be submissive and deferential to yet another woman in your life.
:pinch: :lol:
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 18, 2012, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
as to the question at hand, the universal emasculation: Laughing at a guys dick :D
A giggle stifled a fraction of a second too late is even worse. :(
"is it in yet" So many ways to truely wound a man :D
"Can't feel that? How about ...
here!"* :P
* Not recommended
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
Way to be submissive and deferential to yet another woman in your life.
:XD: It's Seedy season.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
Way to be submissive and deferential to yet another woman in your life.
:lol: It's just not my week on Languish.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 02:49:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
Now, now...let's not all pile on the soccer mom..as hot as that concept may be. :lol: She saw her shot, she took it. That's what Languish is all about. :P
Way to be submissive and deferential to yet another woman in your life.
:lol: It's just not my week on Languish.
I saw my shot and I took it. ;)
Quote from: HVC on July 18, 2012, 02:05:51 PM
Meri, at the very least the fact that everyone saw the comments as an attack should give you pause :lol:
I think it was one of Merri's finest moments on Languish. The momma cat finally showed her claws.
Quote from: Drakken on July 18, 2012, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2012, 12:35:46 PM
Serious answer though: box-cutters aside, "emasculation" implies something that attacks your role as a man, so what could do it depends entirely on what you think your role as a man is or ought to be at the time (as seperate or in addition to your role as a human being).
Nowadays, that would mostly be for me my role as a father, so anything that attacked my worth as a father would be "emasculating". Provides a bad male role model for my son, that sort of thing.
Stuff like letting my wife drive the car cannot be "emasculating" to me because in my opinion, at least for me, my role as a man does not require being the person who drives the car. :D
I agree, although women also have a social construct, an image, even a fantasy on how a "manly" man should act and behave. While some things may not be emasculating to you, the woman might see it as such and change her behavior accordingly. Then again, it's where good communication sinks in.
.......
There's some truth in this and that plenty of men know this and so act the part, rather than being intrinsically manly.
An example I was recently chatting with some people, two of whom I didn't know. Now the conservation changed to motorbikes, and one of the women, whom I'd not met before, recounted in admiring detail how she was once riding pillion in London with some now ex-boyfriend.
Apparently another motorcycle near them was riding recklessly, so when they drew up at traffic lights together, manly boyfriend lent over, took the other guys ignition keys and threw them in the bushes, whilst informing him he was liable to get himself killed riding like that, and with that he rode off.
No colour me skeptical, but given that the ex-boyfriend was riding a harley and claimed to be a member of the SBS, I have to say I think the whole 'package' was a drama he staged* for her 'benefit'.
And sure enough years later, she's still lovingly retelling this story. :hmm:
* I'm not doubting he was actually an arsehole to some random biker he picked on.
Quote from: Drakken on July 18, 2012, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2012, 12:35:46 PM
Serious answer though: box-cutters aside, "emasculation" implies something that attacks your role as a man, so what could do it depends entirely on what you think your role as a man is or ought to be at the time (as seperate or in addition to your role as a human being).
Nowadays, that would mostly be for me my role as a father, so anything that attacked my worth as a father would be "emasculating". Provides a bad male role model for my son, that sort of thing.
Stuff like letting my wife drive the car cannot be "emasculating" to me because in my opinion, at least for me, my role as a man does not require being the person who drives the car. :D
I agree, although women also have a social construct, an image, even a fantasy on how a "manly" man should act and behave. While some things may not be emasculating to you, the woman might see it as such and change her behavior accordingly. Then again, it's where good communication sinks in.
As I've written above, the main unit of measure is respect. It's something that cannot be explained to a woman, you just feel it. You feel secure, you feel on common grounds, and you feel like you have the full support of your woman in your life, and that she counts on you to help her and protect her if she ever needs it.
This is pretty much it. Good post.
It's fine if I don't make more money than she does, but I would see it as emasculating if I don't contribute at all. I don't know if I would feel that way if I had kids to stay home and care for, but I suspect I still would.
Nobody can out-drink me so no issue there. :P
Being nice and caring for mom is not emasculating unless she's giving me orders. If you're still in the kid-mom frame as an adult, that does do it.
I think the psychology guys are right about the whole testing thing women do to see if their dude is still worthy of their respect. That happens. I don't think they do it on purpose though, or even realize they are doing it. If you fail the test that is a bit emasculating and does make her respect you less even if she doesn't realize it.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 18, 2012, 05:38:27 PM
I think the psychology guys are right about the whole testing thing women do to see if their dude is still worthy of their respect. That happens. I don't think they do it on purpose though, or even realize they are doing it. If you fail the test that is a bit emasculating and does make her respect you less even if she doesn't realize it.
Some definitely do it on purpose, even contrive situations to make sure they get the measure of a guy while they're still dating. I know some (younger) women who do this, and openly talk about it among their girlfriends. They feel important if they think he'll fight for her. When he takes charge, she feels like he's powerful enough to protect her. It's asinine, imo, though, because taking charge with his girlfriend or wife is nothing like standing up to some random guy to protect his woman. (And please. What woman worth her salt in this day and age can't take care of herself?)
FWIW, I don't need, or even want, a man to take charge of everything in order to feel cared for and loved. It isn't necessary that the guy be anything other than a managing
partner in our lives together. THAT is far more manly to me than any silly test. It proves that he's comfortable with who he is, and that he's dedicated to our relationship. But then, I'm pretty secure in who I am, and those girls who tested the guys were not so much.
What I
do find emasculating (really, just terribly unattractive) is a guy who feels the need to show how "manly" he is. Most of the time, those guys really aren't so manly at all. The confident man doesn't need to pose; he just is. The poser, on the other hand, screams "waste of time".
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
What I do find emasculating (really, just terribly unattractive) is a guy who feels the need to show how "manly" he is. Most of the time, those guys really aren't so manly at all. The confident man doesn't need to pose; he just is. The poser, on the other hand, screams "waste of time".
A little artifice can be fun.
I don't think "emasculating" is the right term for the guys who care over much about being manly and displaying their alpha male qualities. "Insecure," "juvenile," and "silly" are more apt (and more than enough justification for having no interest in them). Not "unmasculine" though; preening and strutting around to make sure everyone knows that you've got this "manly" stuff down pat by acting out the broad social stereotypes of your gender is pretty typical male behaviour. By definition, that pretty much can't be emasculated even if its immature, foolish and unattractive.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 02:14:15 PM
You've already wet yourself at the thought of us owning scary guns, so it's probably safe to avoid the entire US.
I agree that it would be safer to avoid your country entirely. But there are some nice bits. The trick is in knowing the parts that are not worth seeing. Hence the question.
Quote from: Jacob on July 18, 2012, 08:48:08 PM
I don't think "emasculating" is the right term for the guys who care over much about being manly and displaying their alpha male qualities. "Insecure," "juvenile," and "silly" are more apt (and more than enough justification for having no interest in them). Not "unmasculine" though; preening and strutting around to make sure everyone knows that you've got this "manly" stuff down pat by acting out the broad social stereotypes of your gender is pretty typical male behaviour. By definition, that pretty much can't be emasculated even if its immature, foolish and unattractive.
did you just say an insecure male cant be emasculated?
I hope not, as I don't believe that. I'm saying that an insecure man isn't emasculated by acting all macho and trying to cover his insecurity. That's pretty standard male behaviour.
I'd say that Mr. Insecure is vulnerable to being emasculated by effectively calling out his bluster as bluffing.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 18, 2012, 05:38:27 PM
Nobody can out-drink me so no issue there. :P
wanna bet? :cheers:
and yes, men drive :ph34r: but only because most women drive me crazy on roads :menace:
Quote from: Jacob on July 18, 2012, 08:48:08 PM
I don't think "emasculating" is the right term for the guys who care over much about being manly and displaying their alpha male qualities. "Insecure," "juvenile," and "silly" are more apt (and more than enough justification for having no interest in them). Not "unmasculine" though; preening and strutting around to make sure everyone knows that you've got this "manly" stuff down pat by acting out the broad social stereotypes of your gender is pretty typical male behaviour. By definition, that pretty much can't be emasculated even if its immature, foolish and unattractive.
See? I really don't get the whole "emasculating" thing! :(
Regardless, yes, this. :)
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Passive aggression is a staple Mommy trait. Just watch
Everybody Loves Raymond reruns. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Passive aggression is a staple Mommy trait. Just watch Everybody Loves Raymond reruns. :P
I thought it was trait common amongst the whole gender.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Paglia who? :unsure:
I get that I was insulting Seedy, but I don't understand why it emasculated him. There is a difference.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Passive aggression is a staple Mommy trait. Just watch Everybody Loves Raymond reruns. :P
The father was the only normal, sensible person on that show.
Paglia. :lol:
Might be more interesting to ask the opposite. Why men feel the need to prove they are not emasculated constantly.
Roy Baumeister says it's because men are the disposable sex and are therefore in a constant struggle against each other to prove they are worthy to be the ones to make the babies, and that this goes back as far as the species.
Do monkeys do that? I don't know.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 12:03:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Paglia who? :unsure:
I get that I was insulting Seedy, but I don't understand why it emasculated him. There is a difference.
You said that he'd war a dress (tutu to be exact :lol: ) and you don't understand how that's emasculating? :P
- putting any kind of cream or products on my skin/hair
- using any kind of perfume
- putting on any kind of accessories, including wedding rings
The whole "emasculating" or "defeminising" argument depends on outdated gender models. All the examples here are either completely trivial in today's supposedly egalitarian society or show plain lack of respect between human beings whatever their gender. Anyone comfortable in their own persona would either shrug off a particular issue if it meant nothing to them, resolve it by explaining why the comment was unfair and hurtful if the relationship was otherwise sound, or move on to someone who offers them a suitable level of decency.
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 01:01:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 12:03:00 AM
I get that I was insulting Seedy, but I don't understand why it emasculated him. There is a difference.
You said that he'd war a dress (tutu to be exact :lol: ) and you don't understand how that's emasculating? :P
And with my legs? Are you kidding?
Pocket Hercules ain't got nuttin on Seedy.
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 18, 2012, 01:31:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2012, 01:28:11 PM
I'm not insecure. None of the other stuff mentioned in the thread bothers me. Being the driver is one of those traditional male roles you just don't mess with. Thankfully I have a wife that prefers that I drive. MEN DRIVE.
Why?
Because MEN DRIVE.
Jeez...
When did you learn to drive?
If you were quite young, it's an habit more then anything.
Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis. :thumbsdown:
Heh, everyone has a vulnerable spot - and it is pretty clear this isn't seedy's.
Attack his manhood and he will but laugh. Attack his cats, and it's game on. :ph34r:
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 06:49:29 AMLearning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
For instance my father, he only learned to drive in his early 30s, when he was already a father of two. He claimed that he didn't have good eye-hand coordination. In fact there might be some truth to it, because he has badly scratched the car already twice on the few ocasions when he drives it.
Quote from: Brazen on July 19, 2012, 04:09:05 AM
The whole "emasculating" or "defeminising" argument depends on outdated gender models. All the examples here are either completely trivial in today's supposedly egalitarian society or show plain lack of respect between human beings whatever their gender. Anyone comfortable in their own persona would either shrug off a particular issue if it meant nothing to them, resolve it by explaining why the comment was unfair and hurtful if the relationship was otherwise sound, or move on to someone who offers them a suitable level of decency.
The bolded, underlined part is key. The problem is that while most women see it as such, it appears that an awful lot of men don't. They cling to those models for dear life. As an example, the driving thing. At one time it made some sense for the man to drive rather than the woman since it was a lot harder to drive in general before automatic steering and braking. But now, it's just a load of outdated bunk.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 07:33:57 AM
Quote from: Brazen on July 19, 2012, 04:09:05 AM
The whole "emasculating" or "defeminising" argument depends on outdated gender models. All the examples here are either completely trivial in today's supposedly egalitarian society or show plain lack of respect between human beings whatever their gender. Anyone comfortable in their own persona would either shrug off a particular issue if it meant nothing to them, resolve it by explaining why the comment was unfair and hurtful if the relationship was otherwise sound, or move on to someone who offers them a suitable level of decency.
The bolded, underlined part is key. The problem is that while most women see it as such, it appears that an awful lot of men don't. They cling to those models for dear life. As an example, the driving thing. At one time it made some sense for the man to drive rather than the woman since it was a lot harder to drive in general before automatic steering and braking. But now, it's just a load of outdated bunk.
While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.
Quote from: The Larch on July 19, 2012, 07:25:59 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 06:49:29 AMLearning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
For instance my father, he only learned to drive in his early 30s, when he was already a father of two. He claimed that he didn't have good eye-hand coordination. In fact there might be some truth to it, because he has badly scratched the car already twice on the few ocasions when he drives it.
It's my case, I learned to drive at 23. In a world where most learn to drive at 16, I had 7 years of being driven around by my friends & some of them were girls. It's no biggie. I still let my gf do most of the driving, especially short drives.
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 07:36:34 AM
While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.
Agreed, and every time I see it I cringe a little inside.
YOU CAN TAKE THE FUCKING GARBAGE OUT WITHOUT BREAKING A NAIL, STUPID BITCH! <_<
That being said, I don't think that women, in general, see doing those kinds of things as defeminizing.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 19, 2012, 05:40:13 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 01:01:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 12:03:00 AM
I get that I was insulting Seedy, but I don't understand why it emasculated him. There is a difference.
You said that he'd war a dress (tutu to be exact :lol: ) and you don't understand how that's emasculating? :P
And with my legs? Are you kidding?
i think you could pull it off :D
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 07:36:34 AM
While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.
Agreed, and every time I see it I cringe a little inside.
YOU CAN TAKE THE FUCKING GARBAGE OUT WITHOUT BREAKING A NAIL, STUPID BITCH! <_<
That being said, I don't think that women, in general, see doing those kinds of things as defeminizing.
See but you keep positing adherence to gender roles as something forced actively by a man...and that simply isn't the case.
In many homes in America, you've households where the mother stays home or works a "light" job and the father has the career. Does the arrangement persist because the father demands to be the breadwinner while the mother consciously acquiesces/chooses her fate?
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 07:50:32 AM
See but you keep positing adherence to gender roles as something forced actively by a man...and that simply isn't the case.
In many homes in America, you've households where the mother stays home or works a "light" job and the father has the career. Does the arrangement persist because the father demands to be the breadwinner while the mother consciously acquiesces/chooses her fate?
I don't think it's forced actively by men. I think that men take the change in the system much harder than women do. I don't know any nor have I heard of any woman who feels less than a woman because she makes more than her husband, yet you often hear of men who have an issue with it.
It's not that gender roles aren't still out there. My point is that when those roles are altered beyond tradition, men see it as taking away their mancard. Women, in general, don't see it as a loss of her womancard to do things that are traditionally male jobs.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 07:36:34 AM
While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.
Agreed, and every time I see it I cringe a little inside.
YOU CAN TAKE THE FUCKING GARBAGE OUT WITHOUT BREAKING A NAIL, STUPID BITCH! <_<
That being said, I don't think that women, in general, see doing those kinds of things as defeminizing.
"feminine", at least the way i see it, in our society is more about appearance then function. Maybe in some societies a woman taking out the trash would be defeminizing. the clostest i could think to defeminize someone in the west is making them grow leg and facial hair and making them walk around lol. Taking away their "sexyness" as it were.
As for masculinity in society, it still is expected, I think, to some degree. Not as much in the past, but it's still around. During the whole "men are floundering women are rising" thing that went on a few months ago in regards to unemployment rates there were a couple of studies I read that women still prefer what can best be described as providers. That is they wouldn't date someone un/under-employeed nor a man past his mid twenties who lived at home. And like women appearance is part of the masculine thing. Most women would prefer a buff guy to an over weight guy, so the masculine ideal in appearance is still out there (ie not being forced to wear a tutu :P )
Or I can just be really tired and not be making any sense :D
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 07:33:57 AMAs an example, the driving thing. At one time it made some sense for the man to drive rather than the woman since it was a lot harder to drive in general before automatic steering and braking. But now, it's just a load of outdated bunk.
Not in my experience. If I could choose who I share the road with I'd pick a stereotypical male driver over a female one anytime. Simply because I know what the former will do. Males are usually predictable, if overly aggressive. Too many women are not. They drive like old people.
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 07:56:45 AM
"feminine", at least the way i see it, in our society is more about appearance then function. Maybe in some societies a woman taking out the trash would be defeminizing. the clostest i could think to defeminize someone in the west is making them grow leg and facial hair and making them walk around lol. Taking away their "sexyness" as it were.
As for masculinity in society, it still is expected, I think, to some degree. Not as much in the past, but it's still around. During the whole "men are floundering women are rising" thing that went on a few months ago in regards to unemployment rates there were a couple of studies I read that women still prefer what can best be described as providers. That is they wouldn't date someone un/under-employeed nor a man past his mid twenties who lived at home. And like women appearance is part of the masculine thing. Most women would prefer a buff guy to an over weight guy, so the masculine ideal in appearance is still out there (ie not being forced to wear a tutu :P )
Or I can just be really tired and not be making any sense :D
Speaking strictly for myself, I prefer a man who has a job to one without because then I know that if something happens to my job, we have a fall-back. I also, in general, see a man with a job as someone who's capable of handling responsibility, something I find essential in a mate. I don't want taken care of, but I don't want to carry the load forever, either. Men, on the other hand, kind of think that they're supposed to carry the load regardless, so are more likely to be okay with an unemployed woman.
As for feminine being a strictly appearance thing, that doesn't address gender roles. It does explain the poll on what age is most attractive though. :P
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:05:39 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 19, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 07:47:50 AM
i think you could pull it off :D
THATS NOT THE POINT
Come on. you were never tempted, not even once? ;) :D
I'll bet you $20 that he's already worn one for his nieces. :secret:
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:05:44 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 07:56:45 AM
"feminine", at least the way i see it, in our society is more about appearance then function. Maybe in some societies a woman taking out the trash would be defeminizing. the clostest i could think to defeminize someone in the west is making them grow leg and facial hair and making them walk around lol. Taking away their "sexyness" as it were.
As for masculinity in society, it still is expected, I think, to some degree. Not as much in the past, but it’s still around. During the whole “men are floundering women are rising” thing that went on a few months ago in regards to unemployment rates there were a couple of studies I read that women still prefer what can best be described as providers. That is they wouldn’t date someone un/under-employeed nor a man past his mid twenties who lived at home. And like women appearance is part of the masculine thing. Most women would prefer a buff guy to an over weight guy, so the masculine ideal in appearance is still out there (ie not being forced to wear a tutu :P )
Or I can just be really tired and not be making any sense :D
Speaking strictly for myself, I prefer a man who has a job to one without because then I know that if something happens to my job, we have a fall-back. I also, in general, see a man with a job as someone who's capable of handling responsibility, something I find essential in a mate. I don't want taken care of, but I don't want to carry the load forever, either. Men, on the other hand, kind of think that they're supposed to carry the load regardless, so are more likely to be okay with an unemployed woman.
Fair enough, you see it a co-responsibility thing, and i get that, but a lot of woman don't see it that way. It's still an expected gender role for many women. along with official bug killer, for some reason :lol:
QuoteAs for feminine being a strictly appearance thing, that doesn't address gender roles. It does explain the poll on what age is most attractive though. :P
. Ya, i got side tracked. it's the tired thing. i went from gender role back to the emasculate/defeminize origin of the thread lol. although, if you were forced not to fill the physical expecations of society. ie no make up and all hairy would you feel like less of a woman? the key is being forced, or stripped of the choice.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 19, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:05:39 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 19, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 07:47:50 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 19, 2012, 05:40:13 AM
And with my legs? Are you kidding?
i think you could pull it off :D
THATS NOT THE POINT
Come on. you were never tempted, not even once? ;) :D
:unsure: :whistle: :ph34r:
i know a cop that during his first year was told he had to dress up as a trany hooker for a sting. it was a goof, but i found it funny :lol:
Meh, people will always be picked on for failing (or taunted with allegations of failing) to fill the gender roles expected of them. The nature of those expectations is of course always changing as society changes, but our society hasn't evolved to the point where there is literally no difference in social gender roles between men and women, and likely it never will.
What has changed is that, as gender roles change, the sting of such taunts has faded. Look at seedy here - it's like water off a duck's back. ;)
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:10:45 AM
Ya, i got side tracked. it's the tired thing. i went from gender role back to the emasculate/defeminize origin of the thread lol. although, if you were forced not to fill the physical expecations of society. ie no make up and all hairy would you feel like less of a woman? the key is being forced, or stripped of the choice.
I don't, as a rule, wear make-up. I never have. I'm blessed with good skin and have little need for it. And the only reason I shave is because men find it more attractive. If they said, "You know, I really don't like it when you do that. I'd much rather you didn't." My response would be an instantaneous, "Hallelujah!!" I know very few women who shave for themselves. :P
As for being forced - stripped of the right to choose - I don't handle that well in general. It is always about choice for me. BUT if the only reason for that choice is "traditionally, this is how it goes..." I'm going to be a hell of a lot less concerned with making sure the choice is adhered to.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 07:56:45 AM
It's not that gender roles aren't still out there. My point is that when those roles are altered beyond tradition, men see it as taking away their mancard. Women, in general, don't see it as a loss of her womancard to do things that are traditionally male jobs.
A) Not sure I think that's true in general. I think it is all too easy to get caught up in one's own bio/anecdotes.
B) If true, is that surprising? Women spent a lot of the 20th century trying to fight for traditionally male jobs. It'd be a sad ironic twist if they found that made them unhappy.
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 08:15:21 AM
What has changed is that, as gender roles change, the sting of such taunts has faded. Look at seedy here - it's like water off a duck's back. ;)
Do we know that? Perhaps he puts on a brave face but at night weeps while beating that poor chick in his war room.
Also, I think we've also learned an easy touch button for him is asserting that people should be able to make their own health choices. :D
There is also a different dynamics in men and women crossing gender roles. Men who do that are laughed at while women are attacked - this is because the former is seen as being too weak and the latter as too uppity - because male roles are considered superior.
Just look at how much vitriol any female politician or professional who acts like a guy (not in terms of biological appearance etc. But the style of behaviour, assertiveness, competitiveness etc.) faces.
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 08:22:44 AM
A) Not sure I think that's true in general. I think it is all too easy to get caught up in one's own bio/anecdotes.
B) If true, is that surprising? Women spent a lot of the 20th century trying to fight for traditionally male jobs. It'd be a sad ironic twist if they found that made them unhappy.
Agreed. People tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, so I may just not know any women who have issues with all of this. But I think your second point kind of supports my assertion, and explains it. Women had to fight to be treated as equals, which challenges the traditional role of men. Makes sense that some men would hold very tenaciously to that which they believe is being forcibly taken from them.
Quote from: Martinus on July 19, 2012, 08:34:47 AM
There is also a different dynamics in men and women crossing gender roles. Men who do that are laughed at while women are attacked - this is because the former is seen as being too weak and the latter as too uppity - because male roles are considered superior.
Just look at how much vitriol any female politician or professional who acts like a guy (not in terms of biological appearance etc. But the style of behaviour, assertiveness, competitiveness etc.) faces.
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
Well, see, now I'm seriously questioning my view of the world. Are there a significant number of women out there who really do freak out at the idea of becoming less feminine because of the roles they fill and I've just missed them?? :blink:
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 19, 2012, 08:34:47 AM
There is also a different dynamics in men and women crossing gender roles. Men who do that are laughed at while women are attacked - this is because the former is seen as being too weak and the latter as too uppity - because male roles are considered superior.
Just look at how much vitriol any female politician or professional who acts like a guy (not in terms of biological appearance etc. But the style of behaviour, assertiveness, competitiveness etc.) faces.
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
Well, see, now I'm seriously questioning my view of the world. Are there a significant number of women out there who really do freak out at the idea of becoming less feminine because of the roles they fill and I've just missed them?? :blink:
Cosmetics aren't a major industry for nothing. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
Well, see, now I'm seriously questioning my view of the world. Are there a significant number of women out there who really do freak out at the idea of becoming less feminine because of the roles they fill and I've just missed them?? :blink:
Cosmetics aren't a major industry for nothing. ;)
Different topic entirely. Go back to the looks thread. This one is about gender roles. :P
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
Well, see, now I'm seriously questioning my view of the world. Are there a significant number of women out there who really do freak out at the idea of becoming less feminine because of the roles they fill and I've just missed them?? :blink:
Cosmetics aren't a major industry for nothing. ;)
Different topic entirely. Go back to the looks thread. This one is about gender roles. :P
Next you'll be "innocently" inquiring whether seedy wears mascara or lip-liner. :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 08:45:29 AM
Next you'll be "innocently" inquiring whether seedy wears mascara or lip-liner. :lol:
I know he does. Haven't you seen the pics? :unsure:
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
Well, see, now I'm seriously questioning my view of the world. Are there a significant number of women out there who really do freak out at the idea of becoming less feminine because of the roles they fill and I've just missed them?? :blink:
Cosmetics aren't a major industry for nothing. ;)
Different topic entirely. Go back to the looks thread. This one is about gender roles. :P
the more i think of it with my sleep deprived mind the more i think "looking pretty' is a female gender role in western society, actually.
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:46:55 AM
the more i think of it with my sleep deprived mind the more i think "looking pretty' is a female gender role in western society, actually.
Looking attractive is genderless. Both sexes need to be attractive enough to catch and keep a mate. It's not a role; it's bait.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Agreed. People tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, so I may just not know any women who have issues with all of this.
Not particularly useful for making general statements about the state of things then, no?
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:35:20 AMBut I think your second point kind of supports my assertion, and explains it. Women had to fight to be treated as equals, which challenges the traditional role of men. Makes sense that some men would hold very tenaciously to that which they believe is being forcibly taken from them.
It provides a possible explanation as far as work. It doesn't explain or mitigate things regarding child rearing - fashion/"beauty", etc.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:48:38 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:46:55 AM
the more i think of it with my sleep deprived mind the more i think "looking pretty' is a female gender role in western society, actually.
Looking attractive is genderless. Both sexes need to be attractive enough to catch and keep a mate. It's not a role; it's bait.
yes, but there's more emphasis for it in a female. That multi-billion cosmetic industry malthus talked about. True, they're spending a lot of money to get men to go metro, but it's hit or miss. I mean there's a whole "look" for guys where they look like unwashed slacker (think grung but less flannel :lol: ). no way would there be a "messy unkept" fad for women.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:48:38 AM
Looking attractive is genderless. Both sexes need to be attractive enough to catch and keep a mate. It's not a role; it's bait.
That's a head in the sand way about it though. There is most certainly a more involved role for females to play in "looking attractive."
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
because their traditional gender roles mostly revolved around submissivness to men/society and thus require less maintenance?
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 08:50:57 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:48:38 AM
Looking attractive is genderless. Both sexes need to be attractive enough to catch and keep a mate. It's not a role; it's bait.
That's a head in the sand way about it though. There is most certainly a more involved role for females to play in "looking attractive."
I suppose. Enough men will cut bait and run if their women let themselves go, whereas a woman is more willing to stick it out, beer gut and balding or no.
Quote from: Tamas on July 19, 2012, 08:57:10 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles?
because their traditional gender roles mostly revolved around submissivness to men/society and thus require less maintenance?
That explains why they would, not why they wouldn't.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:58:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 08:50:57 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 08:48:38 AM
Looking attractive is genderless. Both sexes need to be attractive enough to catch and keep a mate. It's not a role; it's bait.
That's a head in the sand way about it though. There is most certainly a more involved role for females to play in "looking attractive."
I suppose. Enough men will cut bait and run if their women let themselves go, whereas a woman is more willing to stick it out, beer gut and balding or no.
But women will cut bait if her husband loses his job. So in the end alls well that ends well :lol:
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:59:40 AM
But women will cut bait if her husband loses his job. So in the end alls well that ends well :lol:
:hmm:
I'd love to see some statistics on both of these, to be honest. It may just be interpretations of media hype rather than real facts.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 09:01:12 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:59:40 AM
But women will cut bait if her husband loses his job. So in the end alls well that ends well :lol:
:hmm:
I'd love to see some statistics on both of these, to be honest. It may just be interpretations of media hype rather than real facts.
well, it also depends why you married to begin with. if he married a trophy wife he's more likely to leave once she passes her experation date (as it were). while if she married a sugar daddy she's more likely to leave once the suger is tapped out.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 09:01:12 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 08:59:40 AM
But women will cut bait if her husband loses his job. So in the end alls well that ends well :lol:
:hmm:
I'd love to see some statistics on both of these, to be honest. It may just be interpretations of media hype rather than real facts.
Maybe it's just me - but in this thread you seem to be exhibiting thoughts that women are superior.
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 09:04:22 AM
Maybe it's just me - but in this thread you seem to be exhibiting thoughts that women are superior.
Hmm. I don't, in general, think they are. I think that they tend to be petty, spiteful, and passive-aggressive, and I much prefer the company of men.
But that doesn't mean that I think the over-emphasis by men (in general) to feel "manly" is a positive for the gender. That's probably coming through in the thread. I don't really understand it because I don't feel it. Seeing a man in a tutu doesn't make him any less of a man, to me, under the right circumstances. (Like having a teaparty with his daughter.) Watching a man be deferential to his mother because he trusts her judgment doesn't make him a girly-man. So, this idea that men hold others accountable to maintain their mancard seems... silly. And as I'm not a man, I don't really get the nuances of what makes one man more masculine than another to other guys.
That being said, women certainly do the same thing to one another, just in different ways. We tend to use procreation and parenting as our weapon of choice. So, I guess that's our gender role issue, as someone else already pointed out. It's no less silly - and can be very hurtful, too.
So I'm kind of getting why it's an issue for men. I just needed to come at the problem in the right direction - and with the right feedback - to understand. Thanks for helping me get there. :)
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 06:49:29 AM
When did you learn to drive?
If you were quite young, it's an habit more then anything.
Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
Like every red-blooded American, I got my license at 16. Mom started teaching me how to drive when I was 14.
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Like every red-blooded American, I got my license at 16.
I know I did...but I didn't really learn how to drive until about 9 accidents later :blush:
It is better for the preservation of everybody involved that my wife drive.
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 06:49:29 AM
When did you learn to drive?
If you were quite young, it's an habit more then anything.
Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
Like every red-blooded American, I got my license at 16. Mom started teaching me how to drive when I was 14.
I have been driving for 25 years, only had license for 12......
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:33:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 06:49:29 AM
When did you learn to drive?
If you were quite young, it's an habit more then anything.
Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
Like every red-blooded American, I got my license at 16. Mom started teaching me how to drive when I was 14.
I have been driving for 25 years, only had license for 12......
Mexicans :rolleyes:
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:38:05 AM
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:33:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 06:49:29 AM
When did you learn to drive?
If you were quite young, it's an habit more then anything.
Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.
Like every red-blooded American, I got my license at 16. Mom started teaching me how to drive when I was 14.
I have been driving for 25 years, only had license for 12......
Mexicans :rolleyes:
don't let him fool you. He sounds nothing like the speedy gonzales i expected :(
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:38:05 AM
Mexicans :rolleyes:
yo soy americano
Well, then speak American, cabrón.
I thought i was :unsure:
Not just then.
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:40:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:38:05 AM
Mexicans :rolleyes:
yo soy americano
Well, then speak American, cabrón.
I thought i was :unsure:
Did you take at least 5 seconds to pronounce that phrase? :contract:
:huh: of course not.
Wait, isn't ders married to a furriner?
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 09:53:38 AM
Wait, isn't ders married to a furriner?
He's got halfbreed kids :yes:
Quote from: katmai on July 19, 2012, 09:55:58 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 19, 2012, 09:53:38 AM
Wait, isn't ders married to a furriner?
He's got halfbreed kids :yes:
I gotta say, Tommy does tan very easily. Never frickin' burns at all. Lola, on the other hand, is paler than I am.
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Like every red-blooded American who doesn't live in an urban environment, I got my license at 16. Mom started teaching me how to drive when I was 14.
FYP. :)
Most of my friends who grew up in the Chicago area didn't get their license until they were in their 20s. No need, since they just used public transportation.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Like every red-blooded American who doesn't live in an urban environment, I got my license at 16. Mom started teaching me how to drive when I was 14.
FYP. :)
Most of my friends who grew up in the Chicago area didn't get their license until they were in their 20s. No need, since they just used public transportation.
Ick.
Merri, it's pretty obvious that one of the most traditional aspect of male/female gender roles in our society is for women to look pretty/attractive and stay at home/be more submissive, and for men to bring money, be dominant/competitive and with much less concern for looks. That you would question this is rather puzzling.
The very concept of metrosexuality was created exactly to break away with this traditional role (and it has not been very succesful) by arguing that not just effeminate men care about their looks.
Quote from: Martinus on July 19, 2012, 10:47:12 AM
Merri, it's pretty obvious that one of the most traditional aspect of male/female gender roles in our society is for women to look pretty/attractive and stay at home/be more submissive, and for men to bring money, be dominant/competitive and with much less concern for looks. That you would question this is rather puzzling.
The very concept of metrosexuality was created exactly to break away with this traditional role (and it has not been very succesful) by arguing that not just effeminate men care about their looks.
I was questioning its application in today's society as it applies to women. I get that men still feel this way, as is obvious by the whole concept of emasculation. I don't get the nuances of what, specifically, would emasculate a guy, but I don't think I'm meant to.
My point was that women don't seem to, in general, want that same traditional role, so to deny them the "right" to do it doesn't seem as big of a deal. As was pointed out to me, looks and parenting are two of those traditional roles that women still hang onto pretty tightly. Makes sense. I was thinking more in terms of career and/or marriage roles (specific to the couple) instead of the broader aspects, which was short-sighted of me.
I got it now. :)
Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.
Quote from: Martinus on July 19, 2012, 10:47:12 AM
Merri, it's pretty obvious that one of the most traditional aspect of male/female gender roles in our society is for women to look pretty/attractive and stay at home/be more submissive, and for men to bring money, be dominant/competitive and with much less concern for looks. That you would question this is rather puzzling.
The very concept of metrosexuality was created exactly to break away with this traditional role (and it has not been very succesful) by arguing that not just effeminate men care about their looks.
The reason I decided not to worry about my looks is only because women told me it was no big deal. If women wanted heterosexual men to be hott they would make a bigger deal about it. Also, so far as I know, it is not traditional for men not to worry about their looks. Heck in the male dominated offices of the past everybody wore suits and shaved and had impeccable hair. Now that women have joined us everybody dresses like a slob. :P
Quote from: Valmy on July 19, 2012, 01:02:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 19, 2012, 10:47:12 AM
Merri, it's pretty obvious that one of the most traditional aspect of male/female gender roles in our society is for women to look pretty/attractive and stay at home/be more submissive, and for men to bring money, be dominant/competitive and with much less concern for looks. That you would question this is rather puzzling.
The very concept of metrosexuality was created exactly to break away with this traditional role (and it has not been very succesful) by arguing that not just effeminate men care about their looks.
The reason I decided not to worry about my looks is only because women told me it was no big deal. If women wanted heterosexual men to be hott they would make a bigger deal about it. Also, so far as I know, it is not traditional for men not to worry about their looks. Heck in the male dominated offices of the past everybody wore suits and shaved and have impeccable hair. Now that women have joined us everybody dresses like a slob. :P
It is also not traditional for men not to worry about double negatives. :P
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 01:04:17 PM
It is also not traditional for men not to worry about double negatives. :P
I always try to respect tradition -_-
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 12:55:33 PM
Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.
Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually :console:
Quote from: Jacob on July 19, 2012, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 12:55:33 PM
Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.
Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually :console:
Hopefully not.
Quote from: Martinus on July 19, 2012, 10:47:12 AM
Merri, it's pretty obvious that one of the most traditional aspect of male/female gender roles in our society is for women to look pretty/attractive and stay at home/be more submissive, and for men to bring money, be dominant/competitive and with much less concern for looks. That you would question this is rather puzzling.
Wow this is so screwed up I had to break my rule and respond.
When you say our society you must mean Poland because those "traditional" roles havent been around for decades. The concept of metrosexuality has nothing to do with it. Do people even use that word anymore? Feminism broke those roles.
That you would get this wrong isnt actually all that puzzling.
I guess Marty thinks Meri lives in Poland?
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 19, 2012, 02:46:39 PM
Wow this is so screwed up I had to break my rule and respond.
When you say our society you must mean Poland because those "traditional" roles havent been around for decades. The concept of metrosexuality has nothing to do with it. Do people even use that word anymore? Feminism broke those roles.
That you would get this wrong isnt actually all that puzzling.
So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.
Makes me happy that you didn't know, though. :hug:
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 19, 2012, 02:46:39 PM
When you say our society you must mean Poland because those "traditional" roles havent been around for decades.
Those traditional roles were not even all that traditional. I think they only existed for the twenty years from 1946-1966 or something.
The traditional role of women was to work themselves to death while having 15 children.
Quote from: Jacob on July 19, 2012, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 12:55:33 PM
Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.
Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually :console:
I don't think they grow back. :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on July 19, 2012, 02:59:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 19, 2012, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 12:55:33 PM
Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.
Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually :console:
I don't think they grow back. :hmm:
Miracles of modern science. They are a bit pale and pink though. :(
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.
Makes me happy that you didn't know, though. :hug:
As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you? I thought you were all about choice & whatnot? Can't some people choose to be traditional?
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 03:26:54 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.
Makes me happy that you didn't know, though. :hug:
As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you? I thought you were all about choice & whatnot? Can't some people choose to be traditional?
It's hard to tell though what is choice and what is ignorance-conformity.
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 03:26:54 PM
As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you? I thought you were all about choice & whatnot? Can't some people choose to be traditional?
Yes, absolutely. I'm not advocating going to your house and forcibly making your wife and you to change things up. You have every right to act the way that works for the two of you.
That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 03:39:09 PM
That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.
see, that's a common feminist view (if everyone else can stereotype, so can I :P ) that i never got and actually find kind of offensive. If a woman wasn't to be a stay at home mom and follow "traditional gender roles" why does that mean the relationship is missing mutual respect? Why is that woman any worse than any other woman? it was her choice, and many do make that choice. Just because it isn't the one you would make doesn't make it any less valid. That view you proscribe to, is to me, worse than any misogyny out there because it's another woman judging her for the way she decided to live her life.
Now, there are plenty of stay at home moms who are indeed not respected by their partner, but not all of them. i dare say that's not the case for the majority. Would you see a stay at home dad and go "aww, poor sucker she doesn't respect you"?
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 03:50:05 PM
see, that's a common feminist view (if everyone else can stereotype, so can I :P ) that i never got and actually find kind of offensive. If a woman wasn't to be a stay at home mom and follow "traditional gender roles" why does that mean the relationship is missing mutual respect? Why is that woman any worse than any other woman? it was her choice, and many do make that choice. Just because it isn't the one you would make doesn't make it any less valid. That view you proscribe to, is to me, worse than any misogyny out there because it's another woman judging her for the way she decided to live her life.
Now, there are plenty of stay at home moms who are indeed not respected by their partner, but not all of them. i dare say that's not the case for the majority. Would you see a stay at home dad and go "aww, poor sucker she doesn't respect you"?
I said that there is a level of MUTUAL respect that's lacking. I think the traditional stereotypes are disrespectful to both genders. I have no problem with stay-at-home-parents (I was one for eight years, remember), nor do I have a problem with a division of labor along traditional roles. I DO have a problem with the attitude that often accompanies those roles.
Things like "I make the money, so I don't have to do anything around the house at all." Bullshit. Or "I take care of the house, so it's up to me where we live, how we live, and what the house looks like." Again, bullshit. (Ask Max how pissed I get when the HGTV shows jump onto the whole "Happy wife, happy life" shit. :mad:) There's also the idea that if a man decides to cross that line, he's being emasculated. (I mean, isn't that where all of this started in the first place?)
I just rarely, if ever, see true mutual respect by and for either gender in that kind of arrangement.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 03:39:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 03:26:54 PM
As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you? I thought you were all about choice & whatnot? Can't some people choose to be traditional?
Yes, absolutely. I'm not advocating going to your house and forcibly making your wife and you to change things up. You have every right to act the way that works for the two of you.
That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.
You're still sorta sticking your nose where it doesn't belong-- and being a bit judgmental.
Agreed on the judgmental, but having an opinion about someone or someones is not sticking my nose where it doesn't belong anymore than you deciding you dislike me because I'm not Catholic.
That being said, I don't dislike you (or your wife), as if my opinion matters to you at all. I dislike the attitude you've shown here which kind of leads me to believe that your particular arrangement isn't one to be respected.
OOOO! OOOO! DO ME NEXT!
A "bit"? This is has always been the fatal flaw of feminism. The lack of respect for how an individual woman wants to live. Advocating the equal rights for women is good, but they also have a preconcivied notion of how a woman should live, not just how a woman should be free to live.
I remember when my mom was running for state Senate. Some people from NOW were interested in giving her cash. They lost all interest when they found out she was a stay at home mom. Didn't fit the mode. They just don't respect that "choice".
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 03:50:05 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 03:39:09 PM
That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.
see, that's a common feminist view (if everyone else can stereotype, so can I :P ) that i never got and actually find kind of offensive. If a woman wasn't to be a stay at home mom and follow "traditional gender roles" why does that mean the relationship is missing mutual respect? Why is that woman any worse than any other woman? it was her choice, and many do make that choice. Just because it isn't the one you would make doesn't make it any less valid. That view you proscribe to, is to me, worse than any misogyny out there because it's another woman judging her for the way she decided to live her life.
Now, there are plenty of stay at home moms who are indeed not respected by their partner, but not all of them. i dare say that's not the case for the majority. Would you see a stay at home dad and go "aww, poor sucker she doesn't respect you"?
Damn it! You beat me to it.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:01:32 PM
A "bit"? This is has always been the fatal flaw of feminism. The lack of respect for how an individual woman wants to live. Advocating the equal rights for women is good, but they also have a preconcivied notion of how a woman should live, not just how a woman should be free to live.
I remember when my mom was running for state Senate. Some people from NOW were interested in giving her cash. They lost all interest when they found out she was a stay at home mom. Didn't fit the mode. They just don't respect that "choice".
There are different kinds of feminists. The equality types mostly don't have your fatal flaw I think.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 19, 2012, 05:07:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:01:32 PM
A "bit"? This is has always been the fatal flaw of feminism. The lack of respect for how an individual woman wants to live. Advocating the equal rights for women is good, but they also have a preconcivied notion of how a woman should live, not just how a woman should be free to live.
I remember when my mom was running for state Senate. Some people from NOW were interested in giving her cash. They lost all interest when they found out she was a stay at home mom. Didn't fit the mode. They just don't respect that "choice".
There are different kinds of feminists. The equality types mostly don't have your fatal flaw I think.
Well the NOW ones did. I was thinking of the second wave feminists. The first wave are mostly dead.
I think the reason feminists feel threatened by stay-at-home moms is because individual actions create social expectations. If most women choose to stay at home, then those that don't are out of step with the mainstream. It's the same concept that explains why workers who choose to work during a strike need to have their legs broken and their house fire-bombed.
There's also the thing that individual choice is not free from social pressure.
It's great that individuals make the choices that suit them, but if large number of people make individual choices of a particular kind that's good evidence that there's social pressure that pushes them in that direction.
And if you think that social pressure is not a good thing, that's cause for concern. Yes, it's a delicate thing to find the right path to alleviate the social pressure without infringing on individual choice, but to just throw your hands up and say "there's no problem because of FREEDOM!" is pretty weak.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:09:26 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 19, 2012, 05:07:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:01:32 PM
A "bit"? This is has always been the fatal flaw of feminism. The lack of respect for how an individual woman wants to live. Advocating the equal rights for women is good, but they also have a preconcivied notion of how a woman should live, not just how a woman should be free to live.
I remember when my mom was running for state Senate. Some people from NOW were interested in giving her cash. They lost all interest when they found out she was a stay at home mom. Didn't fit the mode. They just don't respect that "choice".
There are different kinds of feminists. The equality types mostly don't have your fatal flaw I think.
Well the NOW ones did. I was thinking of the second wave feminists. The first wave are mostly dead.
Again though the issue here is teasing out who really has cognizantly/happily made a choice and those who just sort of conformed out of ignorance/apathy/lack of vigor. A good example of this is in that ridiculous movie Mona Lisa Smile where Julia Roberts is exasperated by what she doesn't feel is really Kirsten Dunst's choice. The movie, of course, portrays Kirsten as someone who wasn't really able to make a free choice.
Quote from: Jacob on July 19, 2012, 05:14:56 PM
There's also the thing that individual choice is not free from social pressure.
It's great that individuals make the choices that suit them, but if large number of people make individual choices of a particular kind that's good evidence that there's social pressure that pushes them in that direction.
And if you think that social pressure is not a good thing, that's cause for concern. Yes, it's a delicate thing to find the right path to alleviate the social pressure without infringing on individual choice, but to just throw your hands up and say "there's no problem because of FREEDOM!" is pretty weak.
Yep. Free choices aren't always so free. :yes:
Quote from: DGuller on July 19, 2012, 05:10:02 PM
I think the reason feminists feel threatened by stay-at-home moms is because individual actions create social expectations. If most women choose to stay at home, then those that don't are out of step with the mainstream. It's the same concept that explains why workers who choose to work during a strike need to have their legs broken and their house fire-bombed.
Bad example. Workers don't like scabs because scabs hurt them financially and possibly physically.
Physically? Scabs don't try and murder union trash. Quite the opposite.
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
Physically? Scabs don't try and murder union trash. Quite the opposite.
If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.
Quote from: Jacob on July 19, 2012, 05:14:56 PM
There's also the thing that individual choice is not free from social pressure.
It's great that individuals make the choices that suit them, but if large number of people make individual choices of a particular kind that's good evidence that there's social pressure that pushes them in that direction.
And if you think that social pressure is not a good thing, that's cause for concern. Yes, it's a delicate thing to find the right path to alleviate the social pressure without infringing on individual choice, but to just throw your hands up and say "there's no problem because of FREEDOM!" is pretty weak.
Exactly.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:18:47 PM
Bad example. Workers don't like scabs because scabs hurt them financially and possibly physically.
I'm not so sure. That kind of pressure can seriously undermine any possibility of making different choices, which can hurt a person financially, though not likely to be physically. Pressuring someone to stay home and not build a career so the other can could very obviously financially injure the one who stayed home.
So you'd want to use social pressure to make people behave the way you want, rather then risk other people making you feel bad about your choices?
So when a choice is made and it goes with perceived societal norms it isn't really a choice at all and it's ok to denigrate that decision? Gotcha. So next time Marti goes on a tirade against "the breeders" for having kids because societies deems it a norm you'll all rally to his cause?
btw is the stay at home home is still the societal norm to achieve? I get the impression that the "I can have it all woman" is the societal norm now? But I can readily admit that I'm reading the situation wrong.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:42:41 PM
So you'd want to use social pressure to make people behave the way you want, rather then risk other people making you feel bad about your choices?
People are welcome to make their own choices however they see fit. That doesn't mean, however, that we all have to agree with those choices. Nor does it mean that there won't be discussion about it.
As for your assertion that I'm a bad kind of feminist, you're not paying attention. I disagree with that way of living because I believe that it's inherently disrespectful to BOTH genders, unless special care is taken to avoid it.
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 05:48:07 PM
So when a choice is made and it goes with perceived societal norms it isn't really a choice at all and it's ok to denigrate that decision? Gotcha. So next time Marti goes on a tirade against "the breeders" for having kids because societies deems it a norm you'll all rally to his cause?
I'm pretty sure no one said that. I think what was said is that there is that concern, and special care should be taken to avoid it.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 04:57:15 PM
Agreed on the judgmental, but having an opinion about someone or someones is not sticking my nose where it doesn't belong anymore than you deciding you dislike me because I'm not Catholic.
Not being Catholic is a good thing :hug:
QuoteThat being said, I don't dislike you (or your wife), as if my opinion matters to you at all. I dislike the attitude you've shown here which kind of leads me to believe that your particular arrangement isn't one to be respected.
I'm not overly concerned with your approval of how I live and no hard feelings if you did dislike me. But having said that, you've piqued my curiosity-- what do you think my particular arrangement is?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:42:41 PM
So you'd want to use social pressure to make people behave the way you want, rather then risk other people making you feel bad about your choices?
Way to completely miss the point.
Next Meri thread:
How do you divide the money in a relationship? IT BETTER BE 50/50 MISTER OR YOU ARE GONNA GET A SCOLDING.
Toilet seats? Do you put them down?
Wet towels on the floor. Do you pick them up?
WHY HAVEN'T YOU FIXED THAT DOORBELL YET? WHARGARBL
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 05:52:21 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 05:48:07 PM
So when a choice is made and it goes with perceived societal norms it isn't really a choice at all and it's ok to denigrate that decision? Gotcha. So next time Marti goes on a tirade against "the breeders" for having kids because societies deems it a norm you'll all rally to his cause?
I'm pretty sure no one said that. I think what was said is that there is that concern, and special care should be taken to avoid it.
Indeed. We seem to have a group of people here who are quite skilled at being willfully obtuse. :blush:
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 19, 2012, 06:09:51 PM
Next Meri thread:
How do you divide the money in a relationship? IT BETTER BE 50/50 MISTER OR YOU ARE GONNA GET A SCOLDING.
Toilet seats? Do you put them down?
Wet towels on the floor. Do you pick them up?
WHY HAVEN'T YOU FIXED THAT DOORBELL YET? WHARGARBL
I'm sorry. If I hadn't said "emasculating" maybe Meri wouldn't have created two of these threads!
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 05:58:09 PM
I'm not overly concerned with your approval of how I live and no hard feelings if you did dislike me. But having said that, you've piqued my curiosity-- what do you think my particular arrangement is?
Based on what you've said, it's not one that involved a conversation on what either of you wants or likes. You said that you used to cook, but your wife shunned you from the kitchen. That MEN DRIVE! but no mention on if you've talked to your wife about whether she'd like to drive on occasion.
Maybe it's just schtick for the masses, but it feels horribly disrespectful to both of you. The appearance is that you've both taken on the stereotypical roles without paying real attention to what either of you really want or need. And you're happy with that, so it doesn't really matter much. But it would be disingenuous of me to say that I respect it, anymore than I would respect an absolute role reversal as a way to thumb your nose at tradition but not because the guy likes to vacuum and the woman likes to mow the lawn.
I don't dislike the stereotypical roles. I dislike the attitude of disrespect that permeates those roles with what appears to be a complete lack of actual thought and attention to the individuals involved.
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 19, 2012, 06:09:51 PM
Next Meri thread:
How do you divide the money in a relationship? IT BETTER BE 50/50 MISTER OR YOU ARE GONNA GET A SCOLDING.
Toilet seats? Do you put them down?
Wet towels on the floor. Do you pick them up?
WHY HAVEN'T YOU FIXED THAT DOORBELL YET? WHARGARBL
I'm sorry. If I hadn't said "emasculating" maybe Meri wouldn't have created two of these threads!
THEY'RE INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS, GODDAMNIT!! :ultra:
:D
I mean they were the hot topics of the day.
It was them or one of Tim's threads lol
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 06:28:16 PM
It was them or one of Tim's threads lol
:unsure:
HAIL MERI!
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 19, 2012, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 06:28:16 PM
It was them or one of Tim's threads lol
:unsure:
HAIL MERI!
Ed! So good to see you around again! :hug:
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 19, 2012, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 06:28:16 PM
It was them or one of Tim's threads lol
:unsure:
HAIL MERI!
:D. I was gonna start a women suck too thread as a lark but figured that might end badly for me
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 06:30:51 PM
:D. I was gonna start a women suck too thread as a lark but figured that might end badly for me
I'm not as gay-centered as Marti - so I'd wage more women suck then men suck. Though maybe not as frequently. :hmm:
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 06:30:51 PM
:D. I was gonna start a women suck too thread as a part but figured that might end badly for me
You know, the really interesting thing is that I really do prefer men's company to women's (Brazen being the exception to the rule on that one). I love that I can have a conversation with a guy, maybe even get a little heated, but tomorrow, it'll be forgotten. Men are great about that stuff. Women, not so much. And I learn so much more from you guys than I ever do the women that I know.
Despite how it may appear on here, I think guys are awesome. It might be because you're a bit alien to me, but nonetheless, as a gender, guys rock.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 19, 2012, 02:46:39 PM
Wow this is so screwed up I had to break my rule and respond.
When you say our society you must mean Poland because those "traditional" roles havent been around for decades. The concept of metrosexuality has nothing to do with it. Do people even use that word anymore? Feminism broke those roles.
That you would get this wrong isnt actually all that puzzling.
So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.
Makes me happy that you didn't know, though. :hug:
I think he is the exception that proves the rule - ie there is no such thing as the "tradition" of women just being pretty little play things. That may be the fantasy of some guys (and Marti) but that is about as far as it goes imo.
Quote from: HVC on July 19, 2012, 05:49:21 PM
btw is the stay at home home is still the societal norm to achieve? I get the impression that the "I can have it all woman" is the societal norm now? But I can readily admit that I'm reading the situation wrong.
Most women work because they have to more than because it's a choice. Being able to be a single-income family is difficult for most Americans, anymore.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 06:16:48 PM
Based on what you've said, it's not one that involved a conversation on what either of you wants or likes. You said that you used to cook, but your wife shunned you from the kitchen. That MEN DRIVE! but no mention on if you've talked to your wife about whether she'd like to drive on occasion.
Maybe it's just schtick for the masses, but it feels horribly disrespectful to both of you. The appearance is that you've both taken on the stereotypical roles without paying real attention to what either of you really want or need. And you're happy with that, so it doesn't really matter much. But it would be disingenuous of me to say that I respect it, anymore than I would respect an absolute role reversal as a way to thumb your nose at tradition but not because the guy likes to vacuum and the woman likes to mow the lawn.
I don't dislike the stereotypical roles. I dislike the attitude of disrespect that permeates those roles with what appears to be a complete lack of actual thought and attention to the individuals involved.
So you've got cooking and driving, and don't have all the details on either so you're filling in the gaps with your imagination :lol:
She's a food perfectionist and actually gets angry if she eats something below her standards. It's a quirk, but a pretty minor one so I never got worked up about it. Plus, she's really good at cooking so I'm more than happy to let her do it.
Re: driving, it's pretty simple. I drive, she knows I like to drive and has no problem letting me drive.
So, horribly disrespectful? Really? I don't think you understand that your particular values, pet peeves, etc. are not necessarily those of other people. Like that thread eons ago where you said you couldn't imagine why a guy would be in a relationship with a girl if the girl gave him crap for watching porn. Maybe, possibly, a guy values his relationship with the girl more than he does his porn.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
Physically? Scabs don't try and murder union trash. Quite the opposite.
If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.
Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore. We have laws for that. You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.
Quote from: derspiess on July 19, 2012, 07:09:14 PM
So you've got cooking and driving, and don't have all the details on either so you're filling in the gaps with your imagination :lol:
She's a food perfectionist and actually gets angry if she eats something below her standards. It's a quirk, but a pretty minor one so I never got worked up about it. Plus, she's really good at cooking so I'm more than happy to let her do it.
Re: driving, it's pretty simple. I drive, she knows I like to drive and has no problem letting me drive.
So, horribly disrespectful? Really? I don't think you understand that your particular values, pet peeves, etc. are not necessarily those of other people. Like that thread eons ago where you said you couldn't imagine why a guy would be in a relationship with a girl if the girl gave him crap for watching porn. Maybe, possibly, a guy values his relationship with the girl more than he does his porn.
I'm pretty sure that at no time did I say that my opinion should be the opinions of others. I said that I don't respect the kind of relationship that you appear to have with your wife, and offered two examples of things you've said that struck me as disrespectful. (The Thanksgiving thing could have gone in there, too, and probably a few others, but I stuck with one example of disrespect for each gender.) I'm not pressuring anyone to agree with me. I've never said, "Oh! Oh! You should all hate derspiess for his attitude!" I shared my opinion, and I'm pretty okay with having done so. You did ask, after all.
Just for the record, my opinion is just that: mine. I don't really care if others agree or disagree with me. I like a good discussion that helps me re-examine my opinions on occasion - and I've certainly been known to change my mind when that happens - but I don't hold them so that I can convince others or have others convince me. They are, as you said, my personal values. If they offend you, well, too bad.
Yeah it'd be one thing if he posited why he drives like that - however he said he should drive because he's a man and that's how things should be.
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 07:34:55 PM
Yeah it'd be one thing if he posited why he drives like that - however he said he should drive because he's a man and that's how things should be.
Well, actually, what he said is that if he didn't drive, he would feel emasculated.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 07:34:55 PM
Yeah it'd be one thing if he posited why he drives like that - however he said he should drive because he's a man and that's how things should be.
Well, actually, what he said is that if he didn't drive, he would feel emasculated.
Sounds like the same difference to me. :unsure:
I hate derspeiss. Meri has warped my mind with her words.
Also, he feels that A MAN DRIVES, whereas I prefer to be ferried around. His implication that I am less than all that is man is not appreciated. If there was a homo here, I'd definitely punch that fag to prove it.
Quote from: Jacob on July 19, 2012, 06:06:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:42:41 PM
So you'd want to use social pressure to make people behave the way you want, rather then risk other people making you feel bad about your choices?
Way to completely miss the point.
Oh, I got the point. Thing is, the knife cuts both ways.
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
Physically? Scabs don't try and murder union trash. Quite the opposite.
If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.
Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore. We have laws for that. You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.
I didn't think we were talking about any particular point in time.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 07:58:21 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
Physically? Scabs don't try and murder union trash. Quite the opposite.
If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.
Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore. We have laws for that. You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.
I didn't think we were talking about any particular point in time.
We were. Now.
How about now?
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 07:58:21 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 19, 2012, 05:32:36 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 05:29:36 PM
Physically? Scabs don't try and murder union trash. Quite the opposite.
If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.
Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore. We have laws for that. You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.
I didn't think we were talking about any particular point in time.
We were. Now.
Actually horseshit can be an issue around Central Park.
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 08:27:52 PM
Actually horseshit can be an issue around Central Park.
Not really. I little bit of shit here and there is different from having the roads be shin-deep in shit all the time.
Quote from: Neil on July 19, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2012, 08:27:52 PM
Actually horseshit can be an issue around Central Park.
Not really. I little bit of shit here and there is different from having the roads be shin-deep in shit all the time.
There's a little bit too much of it.
Quote from: merithyn on July 19, 2012, 10:53:49 AM
I was questioning its application in today's society as it applies to women. I get that men still feel this way, as is obvious by the whole concept of emasculation. I don't get the nuances of what, specifically, would emasculate a guy, but I don't think I'm meant to.
Emasculation (with the obvious exception when it's used to mean actual physical removal of the genetalia) is just a fancy synomyn for hen-pecked or whipped. It's not about what he does or doesn't do when it comes to household chores or status within a relationship; it's about him doing particular chores or holding a particular status because he's told to do so or else, and doesn't have the willpower to stand up for himself when what's he's told to do doesn't conform to what he wants to do.