Gentlemen - What emasculates you?

[CountDeMoney]

And with my legs?  Are you kidding?

i think you could pull it off

THATS NOT THE POINT

[Iormlund]

As an example, the driving thing. At one time it made some sense for the man to drive rather than the woman since it was a lot harder to drive in general before automatic steering and braking. But now, it's just a load of outdated bunk.

Not in my experience. If I could choose who I share the road with I'd pick a stereotypical male driver over a female one anytime. Simply because I know what the former will do. Males are usually predictable, if overly aggressive. Too many women are not. They drive like old people.

[HVC]

And with my legs?  Are you kidding?

i think you could pull it off

THATS NOT THE POINT

Come on. you were never tempted, not even once?

[merithyn]

"feminine", at least the way i see it, in our society is more about appearance then function. Maybe in some societies a woman taking out the trash would be defeminizing. the clostest i could think to defeminize someone in the west is making them grow leg and facial hair and making them walk around lol. Taking away their "sexyness" as it were.

As for masculinity in society, it still is expected, I think, to some degree. Not as much in the past, but it's still around. During the whole "men are floundering women are rising" thing that went on a few months ago in regards to unemployment rates there were a couple of studies I read that women still prefer what can best be described as providers. That is they wouldn't date someone un/under-employeed nor a man past his mid twenties who lived at home. And like women appearance is part of the masculine thing. Most women would prefer a buff guy to an over weight guy, so the masculine ideal in appearance is still out there (ie not being forced to wear a tutu )

Or I can just be really tired and not be making any sense

Speaking strictly for myself, I prefer a man who has a job to one without because then I know that if something happens to my job, we have a fall-back. I also, in general, see a man with a job as someone who's capable of handling responsibility, something I find essential in a mate. I don't want taken care of, but I don't want to carry the load forever, either. Men, on the other hand, kind of think that they're supposed to carry the load regardless, so are more likely to be okay with an unemployed woman.

As for feminine being a strictly appearance thing, that doesn't address gender roles. It does explain the poll on what age is most attractive though.

[merithyn]

i think you could pull it off

THATS NOT THE POINT

Come on. you were never tempted, not even once?

I'll bet you $20 that he's already worn one for his nieces. 

[HVC]

"feminine", at least the way i see it, in our society is more about appearance then function. Maybe in some societies a woman taking out the trash would be defeminizing. the clostest i could think to defeminize someone in the west is making them grow leg and facial hair and making them walk around lol. Taking away their "sexyness" as it were.

As for masculinity in society, it still is expected, I think, to some degree. Not as much in the past, but it’s still around. During the whole “men are floundering women are rising” thing that went on a few months ago in regards to unemployment rates there were a couple of studies I read that women still prefer what can best be described as providers. That is they wouldn’t date someone un/under-employeed nor a man past his mid twenties who lived at home. And like women appearance is part of the masculine thing. Most women would prefer a buff guy to an over weight guy, so the masculine ideal in appearance is still out there (ie not being forced to wear a tutu )

Or I can just be really tired and not be making any sense

Speaking strictly for myself, I prefer a man who has a job to one without because then I know that if something happens to my job, we have a fall-back. I also, in general, see a man with a job as someone who's capable of handling responsibility, something I find essential in a mate. I don't want taken care of, but I don't want to carry the load forever, either. Men, on the other hand, kind of think that they're supposed to carry the load regardless, so are more likely to be okay with an unemployed woman.

Fair enough, you see it a co-responsibility thing, and i get that, but a lot of woman don't see it that way. It's still an expected gender role for many women. along with official bug killer, for some reason

As for feminine being a strictly appearance thing, that doesn't address gender roles. It does explain the poll on what age is most attractive though.

. Ya, i got side tracked. it's the tired thing. i went from gender role back to the emasculate/defeminize origin of the thread lol. although, if you were forced not to fill the physical expecations of society. ie no make up and all hairy would you feel like less of a woman? the key is being forced, or stripped of the choice.

[CountDeMoney]

And with my legs?  Are you kidding?

i think you could pull it off

THATS NOT THE POINT

Come on. you were never tempted, not even once?

   

[HVC]

And with my legs?  Are you kidding?

i think you could pull it off

THATS NOT THE POINT

Come on. you were never tempted, not even once?

   

i know a cop that during his first year was told he had to dress up as a trany hooker for a sting. it was a goof, but i found it funny

[Malthus]

Meh, people will always be picked on for failing (or taunted with allegations of failing) to fill the gender roles expected of them. The nature of those expectations is of course always changing as society changes, but our society hasn't evolved to the point where there is literally no difference in social gender roles between men and women, and likely it never will.

What has changed is that, as gender roles change, the sting of such taunts has faded. Look at seedy here - it's like water off a duck's back. 

[merithyn]

Ya, i got side tracked. it's the tired thing. i went from gender role back to the emasculate/defeminize origin of the thread lol. although, if you were forced not to fill the physical expecations of society. ie no make up and all hairy would you feel like less of a woman? the key is being forced, or stripped of the choice.

I don't, as a rule, wear make-up. I never have. I'm blessed with good skin and have little need for it. And the only reason I shave is because men find it more attractive. If they said, "You know, I really don't like it when you do that. I'd much rather you didn't." My response would be an instantaneous, "Hallelujah!!" I know very few women who shave for themselves.

As for being forced - stripped of the right to choose - I don't handle that well in general. It is always about choice for me. BUT if the only reason for that choice is "traditionally, this is how it goes..." I'm going to be a hell of a lot less concerned with making sure the choice is adhered to.

[garbon]

It's not that gender roles aren't still out there. My point is that when those roles are altered beyond tradition, men see it as taking away their mancard. Women, in general, don't see it as a loss of her womancard to do things that are traditionally male jobs.

A) Not sure I think that's true in general. I think it is all too easy to get caught up in one's own bio/anecdotes.
B) If true, is that surprising? Women spent a lot of the 20th century trying to fight for traditionally male jobs. It'd be a sad ironic twist if they found that made them unhappy.

[garbon]

What has changed is that, as gender roles change, the sting of such taunts has faded. Look at seedy here - it's like water off a duck's back. 

Do we know that? Perhaps he puts on a brave face but at night weeps while beating that poor chick in his war room.

Also, I think we've also learned an easy touch button for him is asserting that people should be able to make their own health choices.

[Martinus]

There is also a different dynamics in men and women crossing gender roles. Men who do that are laughed at while women are attacked - this is because the former is seen as being too weak and the latter as too uppity - because male roles are considered superior.

Just look at how much vitriol any female politician or professional who acts like a guy (not in terms of biological appearance etc. But the style of behaviour, assertiveness, competitiveness etc.) faces.

[merithyn]

A) Not sure I think that's true in general. I think it is all too easy to get caught up in one's own bio/anecdotes.
B) If true, is that surprising? Women spent a lot of the 20th century trying to fight for traditionally male jobs. It'd be a sad ironic twist if they found that made them unhappy.

Agreed. People tend to surround themselves with like-minded people, so I may just not know any women who have issues with all of this. But I think your second point kind of supports my assertion, and explains it. Women had to fight to be treated as equals, which challenges the traditional role of men. Makes sense that some men would hold very tenaciously to that which they believe is being forcibly taken from them.

[merithyn]

There is also a different dynamics in men and women crossing gender roles. Men who do that are laughed at while women are attacked - this is because the former is seen as being too weak and the latter as too uppity - because male roles are considered superior.

Just look at how much vitriol any female politician or professional who acts like a guy (not in terms of biological appearance etc. But the style of behaviour, assertiveness, competitiveness etc.) faces.

Yes, that makes sense. But then, why wouldn't women be more concerned with maintaining their gender roles? 

Well, see, now I'm seriously questioning my view of the world. Are there a significant number of women out there who really do freak out at the idea of becoming less feminine because of the roles they fill and I've just missed them??