Gentlemen - What emasculates you?

[merithyn]

Wow this is so screwed up I had to break my rule and respond.

When you say our society you must mean Poland because those "traditional" roles havent been around for decades.  The concept of metrosexuality has nothing to do with it.  Do people even use that word anymore?  Feminism broke those roles.

That you would get this wrong isnt actually all that puzzling.

So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.

Makes me happy that you didn't know, though.

[Valmy]

When you say our society you must mean Poland because those "traditional" roles havent been around for decades.

Those traditional roles were not even all that traditional.  I think they only existed for the twenty years from 1946-1966 or something.

The traditional role of women was to work themselves to death while having 15 children.

[Malthus]

Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.

Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually

I don't think they grow back. 

[garbon]

Fwiw, I think I last felt emasculated as a young teen.

Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually

I don't think they grow back. 

Miracles of modern science.  They are a bit pale and pink though.

[derspiess]

So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.

Makes me happy that you didn't know, though.

As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you?  I thought you were all about choice & whatnot?  Can't some people choose to be traditional?

[garbon]

So, you obviously haven't read any of derspiess' posts, CC. They're alive and well for some, sadly.

Makes me happy that you didn't know, though.

As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you?  I thought you were all about choice & whatnot?  Can't some people choose to be traditional?

It's hard to tell though what is choice and what is ignorance-conformity.

[merithyn]

As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you?  I thought you were all about choice & whatnot?  Can't some people choose to be traditional?

Yes, absolutely. I'm not advocating going to your house and forcibly making your wife and you to change things up. You have every right to act the way that works for the two of you.

That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.

[HVC]

That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.

see, that's a common feminist view (if everyone else can stereotype, so can I ) that i never got and actually find kind of offensive. If a woman wasn't to be a stay at home mom and follow "traditional gender roles" why does that mean the relationship is missing mutual respect? Why is that woman any worse than any other woman? it was her choice, and many do make that choice. Just because it isn't the one you would make doesn't make it any less valid. That view you proscribe to, is to me, worse than any misogyny out there because it's another woman judging her for the way she decided to live her life.

Now, there are plenty of stay at home moms who are indeed not respected by their partner, but not all of them. i dare say that's not the case for the majority. Would you see a stay at home dad and go "aww, poor sucker she doesn't respect you"?

[merithyn]

see, that's a common feminist view (if everyone else can stereotype, so can I ) that i never got and actually find kind of offensive. If a woman wasn't to be a stay at home mom and follow "traditional gender roles" why does that mean the relationship is missing mutual respect? Why is that woman any worse than any other woman? it was her choice, and many do make that choice. Just because it isn't the one you would make doesn't make it any less valid. That view you proscribe to, is to me, worse than any misogyny out there because it's another woman judging her for the way she decided to live her life.

Now, there are plenty of stay at home moms who are indeed not respected by their partner, but not all of them. i dare say that's not the case for the majority. Would you see a stay at home dad and go "aww, poor sucker she doesn't respect you"?

I said that there is a level of MUTUAL respect that's lacking. I think the traditional stereotypes are disrespectful to both genders. I have no problem with stay-at-home-parents (I was one for eight years, remember), nor do I have a problem with a division of labor along traditional roles. I DO have a problem with the attitude that often accompanies those roles.

Things like "I make the money, so I don't have to do anything around the house at all." Bullshit. Or "I take care of the house, so it's up to me where we live, how we live, and what the house looks like." Again, bullshit. (Ask Max how pissed I get when the HGTV shows jump onto the whole "Happy wife, happy life" shit.  ) There's also the idea that if a man decides to cross that line, he's being emasculated. (I mean, isn't that where all of this started in the first place?)

I just rarely, if ever, see true mutual respect by and for either gender in that kind of arrangement.

[derspiess]

As long as both in the relationship are on board with those roles, why does it bother you?  I thought you were all about choice & whatnot?  Can't some people choose to be traditional?

Yes, absolutely. I'm not advocating going to your house and forcibly making your wife and you to change things up. You have every right to act the way that works for the two of you.

That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.

You're still sorta sticking your nose where it doesn't belong-- and being a bit judgmental.

[merithyn]

Agreed on the judgmental, but having an opinion about someone or someones is not sticking my nose where it doesn't belong anymore than you deciding you dislike me because I'm not Catholic.

That being said, I don't dislike you (or your wife), as if my opinion matters to you at all. I dislike the attitude you've shown here which kind of leads me to believe that your particular arrangement isn't one to be respected.

[Ed Anger]

OOOO! OOOO! DO ME NEXT!

[Razgovory]

A "bit"?  This is has always been the fatal flaw of feminism.  The lack of respect for how an individual woman wants to live.  Advocating the equal rights for women is good, but they also have a preconcivied notion of how a woman should live, not just how a woman should be free to live.

I remember when my mom was running for state Senate.  Some people from NOW were interested in giving her cash.  They lost all interest when they found out she was a stay at home mom.  Didn't fit the mode.  They just don't respect that "choice".

[Razgovory]

That being said, I don't generally respect couples who follow those rules so strictly, which is my right. There's a level of mutual respect in that kind of relationship that is missing, and I find it deplorable.

see, that's a common feminist view (if everyone else can stereotype, so can I ) that i never got and actually find kind of offensive. If a woman wasn't to be a stay at home mom and follow "traditional gender roles" why does that mean the relationship is missing mutual respect? Why is that woman any worse than any other woman? it was her choice, and many do make that choice. Just because it isn't the one you would make doesn't make it any less valid. That view you proscribe to, is to me, worse than any misogyny out there because it's another woman judging her for the way she decided to live her life.

Now, there are plenty of stay at home moms who are indeed not respected by their partner, but not all of them. i dare say that's not the case for the majority. Would you see a stay at home dad and go "aww, poor sucker she doesn't respect you"?

Damn it!  You beat me to it.

[MadImmortalMan]

A "bit"?  This is has always been the fatal flaw of feminism.  The lack of respect for how an individual woman wants to live.  Advocating the equal rights for women is good, but they also have a preconcivied notion of how a woman should live, not just how a woman should be free to live.

I remember when my mom was running for state Senate.  Some people from NOW were interested in giving her cash.  They lost all interest when they found out she was a stay at home mom.  Didn't fit the mode.  They just don't respect that "choice".

There are different kinds of feminists. The equality types mostly don't have your fatal flaw I think.