Gentlemen - What emasculates you?

[merithyn]

btw is the stay at home home is still the societal norm to achieve? I get the impression that the "I can have it all woman" is the societal norm now? But I can readily admit that I'm reading the situation wrong.

Most women work because they have to more than because it's a choice. Being able to be a single-income family is difficult for most Americans, anymore.

[derspiess]

Based on what you've said, it's not one that involved a conversation on what either of you wants or likes. You said that you used to cook, but your wife shunned you from the kitchen. That MEN DRIVE! but no mention on if you've talked to your wife about whether she'd like to drive on occasion.

Maybe it's just schtick for the masses, but it feels horribly disrespectful to both of you. The appearance is that you've both taken on the stereotypical roles without paying real attention to what either of you really want or need. And you're happy with that, so it doesn't really matter much. But it would be disingenuous of me to say that I respect it, anymore than I would respect an absolute role reversal as a way to thumb your nose at tradition but not because the guy likes to vacuum and the woman likes to mow the lawn.

I don't dislike the stereotypical roles. I dislike the attitude of disrespect that permeates those roles with what appears to be a complete lack of actual thought and attention to the individuals involved.

So you've got cooking and driving, and don't have all the details on either so you're filling in the gaps with your imagination

She's a food perfectionist and actually gets angry if she eats something below her standards.  It's a quirk, but a pretty minor one so I never got worked up about it.  Plus, she's really good at cooking so I'm more than happy to let her do it.

Re: driving, it's pretty simple.  I drive, she knows I like to drive and has no problem letting me drive. 

So, horribly disrespectful?  Really?  I don't think you understand that your particular values, pet peeves, etc. are not necessarily those of other people.  Like that thread eons ago where you said you couldn't imagine why a guy would be in a relationship with a girl if the girl gave him crap for watching porn.  Maybe, possibly, a guy values his relationship with the girl more than he does his porn.

[Neil]

Physically?  Scabs don't try and murder union trash.  Quite the opposite.

If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.

Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore.  We have laws for that.  You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.

[merithyn]

So you've got cooking and driving, and don't have all the details on either so you're filling in the gaps with your imagination

She's a food perfectionist and actually gets angry if she eats something below her standards.  It's a quirk, but a pretty minor one so I never got worked up about it.  Plus, she's really good at cooking so I'm more than happy to let her do it.

Re: driving, it's pretty simple.  I drive, she knows I like to drive and has no problem letting me drive. 

So, horribly disrespectful?  Really?  I don't think you understand that your particular values, pet peeves, etc. are not necessarily those of other people.  Like that thread eons ago where you said you couldn't imagine why a guy would be in a relationship with a girl if the girl gave him crap for watching porn.  Maybe, possibly, a guy values his relationship with the girl more than he does his porn.

I'm pretty sure that at no time did I say that my opinion should be the opinions of others. I said that I don't respect the kind of relationship that you appear to have with your wife, and offered two examples of things you've said that struck me as disrespectful. (The Thanksgiving thing could have gone in there, too, and probably a few others, but I stuck with one example of disrespect for each gender.) I'm not pressuring anyone to agree with me. I've never said, "Oh! Oh! You should all hate derspiess for his attitude!" I shared my opinion, and I'm pretty okay with having done so. You did ask, after all.

Just for the record, my opinion is just that: mine. I don't really care if others agree or disagree with me. I like a good discussion that helps me re-examine my opinions on occasion - and I've certainly been known to change my mind when that happens - but I don't hold them so that I can convince others or have others convince me. They are, as you said, my personal values. If they offend you, well, too bad.

[garbon]

Yeah it'd be one thing if he posited why he drives like that - however he said he should drive because he's a man and that's how things should be.

[merithyn]

Yeah it'd be one thing if he posited why he drives like that - however he said he should drive because he's a man and that's how things should be.

Well, actually, what he said is that if he didn't drive, he would feel emasculated.

[garbon]

Yeah it'd be one thing if he posited why he drives like that - however he said he should drive because he's a man and that's how things should be.

Well, actually, what he said is that if he didn't drive, he would feel emasculated.

Sounds like the same difference to me.

[Neil]

I hate derspeiss.  Meri has warped my mind with her words.

Also, he feels that A MAN DRIVES, whereas I prefer to be ferried around.  His implication that I am less than all that is man is not appreciated.  If there was a homo here, I'd definitely punch that fag to prove it.

[Razgovory]

So you'd want to use social pressure to make people behave the way you want, rather then risk other people making you feel bad about your choices?

Way to completely miss the point.

Oh, I got the point.  Thing is, the knife cuts both ways.

[Razgovory]

Physically?  Scabs don't try and murder union trash.  Quite the opposite.

If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.

Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore.  We have laws for that.  You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.

I didn't think we were talking about any particular point in time.

[Neil]

Physically?  Scabs don't try and murder union trash.  Quite the opposite.

If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.

Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore.  We have laws for that.  You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.

I didn't think we were talking about any particular point in time.

We were.  Now.

[crazy canuck]

How about now?

[Neil]

How about now?

Now.

[garbon]

Physically?  Scabs don't try and murder union trash.  Quite the opposite.

If the workers are striking for better working conditions and the scabs break the strike then the workers may have to go back to the dangerous conditions and possibly suffer physical injury or even death that could have been prevented by a successful strike.

Workers don't strike for safe working conditions anymore.  We have laws for that.  You might as well try and lecture me about sanitation problems stemming from horseshit in cities, or complain about Apache attacks on settlers in the West.

I didn't think we were talking about any particular point in time.

We were.  Now.

Actually horseshit can be an issue around Central Park.

[Neil]

Actually horseshit can be an issue around Central Park.

Not really.  I little bit of shit here and there is different from having the roads be shin-deep in shit all the time.