Gentlemen - What emasculates you?

[Brazen]

The whole "emasculating" or "defeminising" argument depends on outdated gender models. All the examples here are either completely trivial in today's supposedly egalitarian society or show plain lack of respect between human beings whatever their gender. Anyone comfortable in their own persona would either shrug off a particular issue if it meant nothing to them, resolve it by explaining why the comment was unfair and hurtful if the relationship was otherwise sound, or move on to someone who offers them a suitable level of decency.

[CountDeMoney]

I get that I was insulting Seedy, but I don't understand why it emasculated him. There is a difference.

You said that he'd war a dress (tutu to be exact ) and you don't understand how that's emasculating?

And with my legs?  Are you kidding?

[katmai]

Pocket Hercules ain't got nuttin on Seedy.

[Grey Fox]

I'm not insecure.  None of the other stuff mentioned in the thread bothers me.  Being the driver is one of those traditional male roles you just don't mess with.  Thankfully I have a wife that prefers that I drive.  MEN DRIVE.

Why?

Because MEN DRIVE. 

Jeez...

When did you learn to drive?

If you were quite young, it's an habit more then anything.

Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.

[Malthus]

I like how Meri uses the cover of not understanding to repeatedly insult Seedy...and then offer dime store Paglia analysis.

Heh, everyone has a vulnerable spot - and it is pretty clear this isn't seedy's.

Attack his manhood and he will but laugh. Attack his cats, and it's game on. 

[The Larch]

Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.

For instance my father, he only learned to drive in his early 30s, when he was already a father of two. He claimed that he didn't have good eye-hand coordination. In fact there might be some truth to it, because he has badly scratched the car already twice on the few ocasions when he drives it.

[merithyn]

The whole "emasculating" or "defeminising" argument depends on outdated gender models. All the examples here are either completely trivial in today's supposedly egalitarian society or show plain lack of respect between human beings whatever their gender. Anyone comfortable in their own persona would either shrug off a particular issue if it meant nothing to them, resolve it by explaining why the comment was unfair and hurtful if the relationship was otherwise sound, or move on to someone who offers them a suitable level of decency.

The bolded, underlined part is key. The problem is that while most women see it as such, it appears that an awful lot of men don't. They cling to those models for dear life. As an example, the driving thing. At one time it made some sense for the man to drive rather than the woman since it was a lot harder to drive in general before automatic steering and braking. But now, it's just a load of outdated bunk.

[garbon]

Paglia who?

[garbon]

The whole "emasculating" or "defeminising" argument depends on outdated gender models. All the examples here are either completely trivial in today's supposedly egalitarian society or show plain lack of respect between human beings whatever their gender. Anyone comfortable in their own persona would either shrug off a particular issue if it meant nothing to them, resolve it by explaining why the comment was unfair and hurtful if the relationship was otherwise sound, or move on to someone who offers them a suitable level of decency.

The bolded, underlined part is key. The problem is that while most women see it as such, it appears that an awful lot of men don't. They cling to those models for dear life. As an example, the driving thing. At one time it made some sense for the man to drive rather than the woman since it was a lot harder to drive in general before automatic steering and braking. But now, it's just a load of outdated bunk.

While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.

[Grey Fox]

Learning to drive late in your life means you are a customed to being driven around by other people & at some point that will mean your girlfriend.

For instance my father, he only learned to drive in his early 30s, when he was already a father of two. He claimed that he didn't have good eye-hand coordination. In fact there might be some truth to it, because he has badly scratched the car already twice on the few ocasions when he drives it.

It's my case, I learned to drive at 23. In a world where most learn to drive at 16, I had 7 years of being driven around by my friends & some of them were girls. It's no biggie. I still let my gf do most of the driving, especially short drives.

[merithyn]

While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.

Agreed, and every time I see it I cringe a little inside.

YOU CAN TAKE THE FUCKING GARBAGE OUT WITHOUT BREAKING A NAIL, STUPID BITCH! 

That being said, I don't think that women, in general, see doing those kinds of things as defeminizing.

[HVC]

I get that I was insulting Seedy, but I don't understand why it emasculated him. There is a difference.

You said that he'd war a dress (tutu to be exact ) and you don't understand how that's emasculating?

And with my legs?  Are you kidding?

i think you could pull it off

[garbon]

While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.

Agreed, and every time I see it I cringe a little inside.

YOU CAN TAKE THE FUCKING GARBAGE OUT WITHOUT BREAKING A NAIL, STUPID BITCH! 

That being said, I don't think that women, in general, see doing those kinds of things as defeminizing.

See but you keep positing adherence to gender roles as something forced actively by a man...and that simply isn't the case.

In many homes in America, you've households where the mother stays home or works a "light" job and the father has the career.  Does the arrangement persist because the father demands to be the breadwinner while the mother consciously acquiesces/chooses her fate?

[merithyn]

See but you keep positing adherence to gender roles as something forced actively by a man...and that simply isn't the case.

In many homes in America, you've households where the mother stays home or works a "light" job and the father has the career.  Does the arrangement persist because the father demands to be the breadwinner while the mother consciously acquiesces/chooses her fate?

I don't think it's forced actively by men. I think that men take the change in the system much harder than women do. I don't know any nor have I heard of any woman who feels less than a woman because she makes more than her husband, yet you often hear of men who have an issue with it.

It's not that gender roles aren't still out there. My point is that when those roles are altered beyond tradition, men see it as taking away their mancard. Women, in general, don't see it as a loss of her womancard to do things that are traditionally male jobs.

[HVC]

While that may be true to some extent - I think it'd be foolish to suggest that there aren't gender role behaviors that many woman adhere to.

Agreed, and every time I see it I cringe a little inside.

YOU CAN TAKE THE FUCKING GARBAGE OUT WITHOUT BREAKING A NAIL, STUPID BITCH! 

That being said, I don't think that women, in general, see doing those kinds of things as defeminizing.

"feminine", at least the way i see it, in our society is more about appearance then function. Maybe in some societies a woman taking out the trash would be defeminizing. the clostest i could think to defeminize someone in the west is making them grow leg and facial hair and making them walk around lol. Taking away their "sexyness" as it were.

As for masculinity in society, it still is expected, I think, to some degree. Not as much in the past, but it's still around. During the whole "men are floundering women are rising" thing that went on a few months ago in regards to unemployment rates there were a couple of studies I read that women still prefer what can best be described as providers. That is they wouldn't date someone un/under-employeed nor a man past his mid twenties who lived at home. And like women appearance is part of the masculine thing. Most women would prefer a buff guy to an over weight guy, so the masculine ideal in appearance is still out there (ie not being forced to wear a tutu )

Or I can just be really tired and not be making any sense