[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

Conservative Party faces significant financial loss after convention voting devices go missing
Pricey keypads were not to be taken home as 'souvenirs': party organizer

Conservative convention organizers are urging delegates who may have walked off with pricey voting devices to return them to the party so it can avoid incurring significant unexpected costs.

In an email to delegates last week that was subsequently shared with CBC News, Wayne Benson, the party's former executive director, said "several" keypads and smart cards that were distributed for votes on policy changes have not been accounted for in the days since the convention in Calgary wrapped up.

"We are seeking your assistance with locating several LUMI Connector Keypads (valued at close to $1,000.00 each) and more than 220 Smart Cards used at the Saturday Plenary Sessions," the email from Benson reads.

Those keypads, which look like an old Blackberry, were used to register yes or no votes on proposed changes to the party's policy playbook, which were carried out live on the convention floor. The smart cards, which resemble a calling card, tracked the province and territory of each registered delegate.

There were roughly 2,700 of each on hand to record votes on dozens of proposed changes.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-voting-devices-missing-9.7081473

[Grey Fox]

Can dead people who would've been able to get Canadian citizenship if they were alive under the current legislation be granted Canadian citizenship retroactively?

The "OMG is this for real" reading seems to imply that if anyone of your direct ancestors were Canadians, then each of the descendants gets posthumous citizenship in turn, creating a domino effect of citizenship.

On the other hand when I read the link Grey Fox shared, the requirement seems to be at minimum that you are a grandchild of a Canadian citizen and that your Canadian descended parent spent at least 3 years in Canada. It says nothing about posthumous citizenship being granted to dead non-Canadian citizens if they would've qualified under the current law.

Presumbably if your great-great grandparent was a Canadian and had a child (your great grandparent) that spent at least 3 years in Canada, that great-grandparent could become a citizen now. But if they're dead then they are not and have never been a Canadian citizen, they're never going to be able to apply for citizenship or take the oath - so the chain of citizenship eligibility would seem to end there.

Yes but all your ancestors should have had citizenship. And the law seems to say they all get granted citizenship if they were born before December 15th 2025.

[crazy canuck]

Sure but the act also adresses the Lost Canadians issue.

Bill C-3 automatically grants citizenship by decent to all those born abroad to a Canadian parent before the coming into force date of the legislation.

https://senate-gro.ca/c3-lost-canadians/

If you were born or adopted before December 15, 2025

Citizenship may have been restored or given to people who were born outside Canada in the second generation or later before December 15, 2025.

This means that in most cases you're automatically a Canadian citizen if you were born

    before December 15, 2025
    outside Canada to a Canadian parent

This rule also applies to you if you were born to someone who became Canadian because of these rule changes.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/rules-2025.html

I'm no lawyer & I have to read all this legalese in english but how is this not what we're saying?

Actually, it's exactly what I'm saying. The only detail that is missing from the overview that you have posted is that the Canadian parent must have had a substantial connection with Canada.

I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is

[crazy canuck]

Can dead people who would've been able to get Canadian citizenship if they were alive under the current legislation be granted Canadian citizenship retroactively?

The "OMG is this for real" reading seems to imply that if anyone of your direct ancestors were Canadians, then each of the descendants gets posthumous citizenship in turn, creating a domino effect of citizenship.

On the other hand when I read the link Grey Fox shared, the requirement seems to be at minimum that you are a grandchild of a Canadian citizen and that your Canadian descended parent spent at least 3 years in Canada. It says nothing about posthumous citizenship being granted to dead non-Canadian citizens if they would've qualified under the current law.

Presumbably if your great-great grandparent was a Canadian and had a child (your great grandparent) that spent at least 3 years in Canada, that great-grandparent could become a citizen now. But if they're dead then they are not and have never been a Canadian citizen, they're never going to be able to apply for citizenship or take the oath - so the chain of citizenship eligibility would seem to end there.

Yes but all your ancestors should have had citizenship. And the law seems to say they all get granted citizenship if they were born before December 15th 2025.

No, to repeat myself for about the fifth time, the Canadian parent of the child who wishes to claim access must have had a substantial connection with Canada at the time of the child was born.

This legislation does not grant ancestral rights in a vacuum.

[crazy canuck]

Can dead people who would've been able to get Canadian citizenship if they were alive under the current legislation be granted Canadian citizenship retroactively?

The "OMG is this for real" reading seems to imply that if anyone of your direct ancestors were Canadians, then each of the descendants gets posthumous citizenship in turn, creating a domino effect of citizenship.

On the other hand when I read the link Grey Fox shared, the requirement seems to be at minimum that you are a grandchild of a Canadian citizen and that your Canadian descended parent spent at least 3 years in Canada. It says nothing about posthumous citizenship being granted to dead non-Canadian citizens if they would've qualified under the current law.

Presumbably if your great-great grandparent was a Canadian and had a child (your great grandparent) that spent at least 3 years in Canada, that great-grandparent could become a citizen now. But if they're dead then they are not and have never been a Canadian citizen, they're never going to be able to apply for citizenship or take the oath - so the chain of citizenship eligibility would seem to end there.

No

Also, there is no chain of eligibility. The initial post that suggested there was what simply wrong. 

[Grey Fox]

I disagree that the connection clause applies to people born before December 15th 2025.
And there's the Reddit community call canadiancitizenship that is flooded with testimonies of people 4 and 5 generation down getting their citizenship.

They get ask about it so often that it's in their FAQ.

Another question:

Bill C-3 extends access to citizenship to these remaining "Lost Canadians," their descendants and those born abroad to or adopted abroad by a Canadian parent in the second or later generation before the new law came into effect.

people born before December 15, 2025, who automatically became Canadian citizens under the new law and were not previously granted citizenship

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2025/12/bill-c-3-an-act-to-amend-the-citizenship-act-2025-comes-into-effect.html

Who are these people that became automatically citizens?

[viper37]

Well that Reddit community explains why the AI answered the way it did. Almost every dossier is a 4 generation descendant of the Canadian citizen.

I don't know if it's enough but it's the same situation Valmy find himself in.

Tbf, that's just the summary table.  I did quizz a lot more than that.

Valmy or his children could get the citizenship.

Then whomever gets the citizenship has to stay in Canada 3 years so that their children can get the citizenship.

Valmy gets the citizenship.  He sends his kids to study at UQAM.  They go back to Texas.  They send their kids to study at McGill. They move back to the independent Republic of California. Their children study at UBC because it's the hip thing to do when you want to be in a serious basketball league.  They meet CC's and Zoupa's great grandaughters who have become staple of the New Canadian Liberal Conservative Party opposed to the Republican Bloc.  And so on and so on they're all Canadians.

[viper37]

Can dead people who would've been able to get Canadian citizenship if they were alive under the current legislation be granted Canadian citizenship retroactively?

The "OMG is this for real" reading seems to imply that if anyone of your direct ancestors were Canadians, then each of the descendants gets posthumous citizenship in turn, creating a domino effect of citizenship.

On the other hand when I read the link Grey Fox shared, the requirement seems to be at minimum that you are a grandchild of a Canadian citizen and that your Canadian descended parent spent at least 3 years in Canada. It says nothing about posthumous citizenship being granted to dead non-Canadian citizens if they would've qualified under the current law.

Presumbably if your great-great grandparent was a Canadian and had a child (your great grandparent) that spent at least 3 years in Canada, that great-grandparent could become a citizen now. But if they're dead then they are not and have never been a Canadian citizen, they're never going to be able to apply for citizenship or take the oath - so the chain of citizenship eligibility would seem to end there.

Everything I'm reading indicates that as long as your ancestor could have been a Canadian citizen (it does not extend to New France) in 1867 and you can prove it, bill C-3 clause about "lost Canadians" applies.  Unclear:  Ancestry from as far as 1759-1763.

And that's what BanQ in Quebec has been busy since January, digging citizenship & marriage proofs for American citizens who have had ancestors in Quebec in the 19th century.

I provided an article about this, but you have to use your browser translation.  It is not AI, it is real research.


Edit:
found legalese:
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/451/CIMM/Brief/BR13624033/br-external/ChapmanDon-e.pdf


I have an headache.

115 000 new citizens according to PBO, up to 2 000 000 eligible, mostly Americans.

Well, at least we may get a 3rd bridge and some Nordiques fans.

[viper37]

Can dead people who would've been able to get Canadian citizenship if they were alive under the current legislation be granted Canadian citizenship retroactively?

The "OMG is this for real" reading seems to imply that if anyone of your direct ancestors were Canadians, then each of the descendants gets posthumous citizenship in turn, creating a domino effect of citizenship.

On the other hand when I read the link Grey Fox shared, the requirement seems to be at minimum that you are a grandchild of a Canadian citizen and that your Canadian descended parent spent at least 3 years in Canada. It says nothing about posthumous citizenship being granted to dead non-Canadian citizens if they would've qualified under the current law.

Presumbably if your great-great grandparent was a Canadian and had a child (your great grandparent) that spent at least 3 years in Canada, that great-grandparent could become a citizen now. But if they're dead then they are not and have never been a Canadian citizen, they're never going to be able to apply for citizenship or take the oath - so the chain of citizenship eligibility would seem to end there.

No

Also, there is no chain of eligibility. The initial post that suggested there was what simply wrong. 

Ok, no chain.  They need to spend 3 years in the country.  But they get a favorable treatment comparable to other immigrants who'd want to become citizens, no?

If an Ivorian wanted to become a Canadian citizen, he couldn't just come here on a visa and become a citizen after 3 years, no?

[mongers]

Well that Reddit community explains why the AI answered the way it did. Almost every dossier is a 4 generation descendant of the Canadian citizen.

I don't know if it's enough but it's the same situation Valmy find himself in.

Tbf, that's just the summary table.  I did quizz a lot more than that.

Valmy or his children could get the citizenship.

Then whomever gets the citizenship has to stay in Canada 3 years so that their children can get the citizenship.

Valmy gets the citizenship.  He sends his kids to study at UQAM.  They go back to Texas.  They send their kids to study at McGill. They move back to the independent Republic of California. Their children study at UBC because it's the hip thing to do when you want to be in a serious basketball league.  They meet CC's and Zoupa's great grandaughters who have become staple of the New Canadian Liberal Conservative Party opposed to the Republican Bloc.  And so on and so on they're all Canadians.

 

[Valmy]

Ok, no chain.  They need to spend 3 years in the country.  But they get a favorable treatment comparable to other immigrants who'd want to become citizens, no?

If an Ivorian wanted to become a Canadian citizen, he couldn't just come here on a visa and become a citizen after 3 years, no?

I probably would need to actually find some kind of conclusive proof this guy was actually born in Sutton, Quebec. His family fled there after foul treachery occured in their native Rhode Island, but it isn't like I have some kind of birth certificate from 1811 laying around.

But hey maybe we just need to finally make our way up to Cape Breton. Hopefully we can drive across the Gordie Howe bridge on our way.

[crazy canuck]

It's just wonderful that people can understand the law by reading Reddit and social media, and never once referring to the actual legislation.

I wish you all the best of luck in your new brave world of the ignorant, informing the ignorant. Or to be more accurate AI tools being trained on what it said on social media and then regurgitated on social media.

Best of luck to you all.

[viper37]

Ok, no chain.  They need to spend 3 years in the country.  But they get a favorable treatment comparable to other immigrants who'd want to become citizens, no?

If an Ivorian wanted to become a Canadian citizen, he couldn't just come here on a visa and become a citizen after 3 years, no?

I probably would need to actually find some kind of conclusive proof this guy was actually born in Sutton, Quebec. His family fled there after foul treachery occured in their native Rhode Island, but it isn't like I have some kind of birth certificate from 1811 laying around.

But hey maybe we just need to finally make our way up to Cape Breton. Hopefully we can drive across the Gordie Howe bridge on our way.

BanQ will dig up birth certificate for people born in Quebec, lower Canada and New France.
https://www.banq.qc.ca/plateformes-numeriques/registres-de-letat-civil-du-quebec/

Don't know if that count as far back as 1811 to get citizenship.

See the text I posted for Lost Canadians.
CC is partially wrong on this one.

What is certain is that your ancestor must have lived in what would have become Canada in 1867 for 3 years.

I don't know if it applies to Loyalists living in the colonies befofe that, that's murky territory.

[Valmy]

It's just wonderful that people can understand the law by reading Reddit and social media, and never once referring to the actual legislation.

I wish you all the best of luck in your new brave world of the ignorant, informing the ignorant. Or to be more accurate AI tools being trained on what it said on social media and then regurgitated on social media.

Best of luck to you all.

Bro. I know. I am just having a good time.

[crazy canuck]

It's just wonderful that people can understand the law by reading Reddit and social media, and never once referring to the actual legislation.

I wish you all the best of luck in your new brave world of the ignorant, informing the ignorant. Or to be more accurate AI tools being trained on what it said on social media and then regurgitated on social media.

Best of luck to you all.

Bro. I know. I am just having a good time.

More directed at GF and Viper.


Btw, here are the actual material legislative changes:

Not applicable — after first generation
(3) Paragraph (1)�(b) does not apply to a person born outside Canada on or after the day on which An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (2025) comes into force
(a) if

(i) at the time of the person's birth

(A) only one of the person's parents was a citizen and that parent was a citizen under any of paragraphs (1)�(b), (c.‍1), (e), (g) to (j) and (o) to (r) and was born outside Canada,

(B) only one of the person's parents was a citizen and that parent was a citizen under paragraph (1)�(f) and was born outside Canada to a parent who was a citizen at the time of their birth, or

(C) both of the person's parents were citizens under any of paragraphs (1)�(b), (c.‍1), (e) to (j) and (o) to (r) and were born outside Canada and, in the case of a parent who was a citizen under paragraph (1)�(f), that parent was born to a parent who was a citizen at the time of their birth, and

(ii) neither of the person's parents who was a citizen was physically present in Canada for at least 1,095 days before the person's birth; or

(b) if

(i) at any time, only one of the person's parents was a citizen and that parent was a citizen under any of the following provisions or both of the person's parents were citizens under any of the following provisions:

(A) paragraph 4(b) or 5(b) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, S.‍C. 1946, c. 15,

(B) paragraph 5(1)�(b) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, S.‍C. 1946, c. 15, as enacted by S.‍C. 1950, c. 29, s. 2,

(C) paragraph 4(1)�(b) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, S.‍C. 1946, c. 15, as enacted by S.‍C. 1952-53, c. 23, s. 2(1),

(D) paragraph 5(1)�(b) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, S.‍C. 1946, c. 15, as enacted by S.‍C. 1950, c. 29, s. 2 and amended by S.‍C. 1952-53, c. 23, s. 3(1),

(E) paragraph 4(1)�(b) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, R.‍S.‍C. 1952, c. 33, as enacted by S.‍C. 1952-53, c. 23, s. 13(1),

(F) paragraph 5(1)�(b) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, R.‍S.‍C. 1952, c. 33, as amended by S.‍C. 1952-53, c. 23, s. 14(1),

(G) subsection 39B(1) of the Canadian Citizenship Act, R.‍S.‍C. 1952, c. 33, as enacted by S.‍C. 1967-68, c. 4, s. 10, or

(H) paragraph 4(1)�(b) or 5(1)�(b) or subsection 42(1) of the former Act, and

(ii) neither of the person's parents who was a citizen was physically present in Canada for at least 1,095 days before the person's birth.

But by all means, everyone continue relying on Reddit and Gemini for an accurate view of the law.