Any interest?
Me and Habs would both play. Thinking once/week (Wednesday nights) from 8pm EST to 1 AM EST.
Would want at least 6, I think.
Players (interested in playing...)
Berkut (England)
Habbaku (Ottoman)
Habbakus Brother (Sweden)
katmai (France)
Hansmeister (Russia)
Viking (Austria)
Kleves (Spain)
Ulmont <-Weak, girlish.
All assignments are VERY tentative at this point, and subject to change.
Powers we would like to have in game:
England, France, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Ottomans, Russia, Sweden, Poland, Brandenburg/Teutonic Order.
That'd be 2 through 7 am for me, so no. :P
Quote from: Syt on March 05, 2010, 01:39:46 PM
That'd be 2 through 7 am for me, so no. :P
Yeah, I am thinking this will be more of a North American thing...we may not really have enough Languishites who would be interested, but I don't know if I want to dip into the Paradox cesspool.
Maybe during the summer...
I'm interested.
That is from 4-9pm for me so I'd like to say yes but forwarn might be missing some days depending on my wonky work schedule.
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
Maybe during the summer...
It will certainly extend into the summer...
Well, ideally we want 10, but 5-6 would be fine as well. Wednesdays are best for me, though.
I might be able to make that.
10 pm CET to 3 AM CET seems acceptable. (4-9 EST iirc)
What setup do I need?
You'll need the latest beta patch as well as the French mission fix, as well as Hamachi and a Steam client. If you post your Steam information here, I'll shoot you a Languish group invite.
gsj1
Sent.
I've got Hamachi and the 4.1b (what's our checksum?). I assume that's all we need.
Quote from: Viking on March 08, 2010, 09:22:19 AM
I've got Hamachi and the 4.1b (what's our checksum?). I assume that's all we need.
You also need the French mission fix:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10833259#post10833259
Checksum is CYLC.
What scenario do we want to play, btw? Is the 1492 start typical, or 1399?
People should start posting their power preference as well.
I like England, myself...
I prefer 1492 because it eliminates a lot of the dumber AI powers and sets all the majors up more historically stable rather than, say, the clusterfuck that France is.
I want to play the Ottomans.
1492 agree. Less France funniness and more immediate colonisation.
I installed
EU3
NA
INN
HTTT
4.1b
French Mission fix
Deleted romania line from "common/countries.txt"
and have checksum RWRZ, I presume I'm different because of my romania fix, how do you do the romania fix to get CYLC?
WTF is with the Romania thing?
We should get Seedy AND grumbler to play.
Seedy would make a fine Russian.
Quote from: Viking on March 08, 2010, 12:52:44 PM
and have checksum RWRZ, I presume I'm different because of my romania fix, how do you do the romania fix to get CYLC?
Yes, you did everything the same except whatever's wrong with Romania. Do we even need the Romania fix?
Quote from: Berkut on March 05, 2010, 01:26:07 PM
Ulmont
:bleeding:
Count me out, as I have repeatedly stated. :mad:
It was worth a shot!
We shall keep you in mind for a sub though :)
Hmm think I'd prefer Austria,France,Spain in that order.
So after ulmont changed his mind and decided he could not play, we have 6. Do we want to go with that, or look for more?
I am loathe to delve into the P-Dox forums, just because we don't know what we will be getting as far as players. but we could use a couple more at least.
The trouble with recruiting from Paradox is that we may get unreliable people. If we assign them an important nation only to have them bail or ragequit, we will be in trouble.
I have nothing wrong with a small six-person game. At the most, maybe recruit 2 people from Paradox and make it an 8 or something.
Yeah, rage-quitting is bad.
How is that BfN turn coming along, btw?
I'm game. I don't want to play Spain or France, though. I could play Russia, Poland or Sweden.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 08, 2010, 01:11:37 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 08, 2010, 12:52:44 PM
and have checksum RWRZ, I presume I'm different because of my romania fix, how do you do the romania fix to get CYLC?
Yes, you did everything the same except whatever's wrong with Romania. Do we even need the Romania fix?
When I install
EU3
NA
INN
HTTT
4.1
france missions
and try to start the game I get the message that EU3 cannot open file \countries\Romania.txt (which the common\countries.txt file calls for) but doesn't exist. So I deleted the line in the file calling for the countries\Romania.txt.
Any suggestions?
Edit: If I'm playing anybody I'm playing a country with no colonies.
Viking you can go ahead and be Austria then if don't want a colonial power
Quote from: katmai on March 08, 2010, 05:54:03 PM
Viking you can go ahead and be Austria then if don't want a colonial power
Austria, Russia, Ottomans, Sweden, France, Poland etc. But none of that matters if I can't get my game to work with your checksum
I suggest a fresh reinstall after making sure your folders are completely purged of EU III stuff beforehand. After that, go in the same order and we'll work from there...
I've never heard of an issue with the Romanian thing.
Quote from: Viking on March 08, 2010, 05:55:53 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 08, 2010, 05:54:03 PM
Viking you can go ahead and be Austria then if don't want a colonial power
Austria, Russia, Ottomans, Sweden, France, Poland etc. But none of that matters if I can't get my game to work with your checksum
Re-install.
Is there any chance we could start this day after tomorrow, or should we just wait until next Wednesday, which would be the 17th?
I can play this wed.
As for countries just put me down as France unless kleves really wants it. Of course he never reads these fucking threads.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 08, 2010, 06:00:30 PM
I suggest a fresh reinstall after making sure your folders are completely purged of EU III stuff beforehand. After that, go in the same order and we'll work from there...
I've never heard of an issue with the Romanian thing.
Given that I've done extensive modification on my own copy re-installing from scratch was the first thing I did.
In the "common" folder "countries.txt" file under the #Balkans heading I have the line
RMN = "countries/Romania.txt"which is not matched by a "Romania.txt" file in the "countries" folder.
This is a repeating error.
There is in fact a Romania.txt, at least my installation has one.
The Romania.txt file is introduced in the 4.1b update..... I'm worried why the file wasn't copied over for mine..
OK
EU3
1.3
NA
2.2
INN
3.2
HTTT
4.1b
Checksum ESIH
French Mission
Checksum MZOE
what did I do wrong?
(romania thing fixed, when I installed 4.1 I didn't get all the files)
Did you generate the map cache and then restart?
Is your game in Program Files?
Quote from: Solmyr on March 09, 2010, 06:55:42 AM
Did you generate the map cache and then restart?
Is your game in Program Files?
Location is standard (Program Files/Paradox Entertainment/Europa Universalis III)
I deleted everything and re-installed.
I've restarted the game and gotten MZOE each time.
If you play Austria, be careful: in the last two languish games (the second is the one still going) Austria ran away because of the inaction of the other powers. I am pretty sure this mistake will not be repeated a third time.
Viking, you might want to run this through the Paradox EU3 tech support forum - or see if anyone else has a similar issue.
That looks right to me...
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 06:43:42 AM
OK
EU3
1.3
NA
2.2
INN
3.2
HTTT
4.1b
Checksum ESIH
French Mission
Checksum MZOE
what did I do wrong?
(romania thing fixed, when I installed 4.1 I didn't get all the files)
The only thing I did differently is the order - which should not matter.
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 07:00:41 AM
Location is standard (Program Files/Paradox Entertainment/Europa Universalis III)
I deleted everything and re-installed.
I've restarted the game and gotten MZOE each time.
Reinstall it outside of Program Files, and don't ever put anything in there, because that folder sucks.
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 06:43:42 AM
4.1b
Checksum ESIH
French Mission
Checksum MZOE
Ok. Assuming you meant "EISH", you were good until the French Missions. Link to the French Mission file you used, so we can see if a new version has been uploaded.
Wasn't EISH the beta patch before the current one? I.e., make sure you are installing the beta patch from 27 February.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 09, 2010, 09:41:41 AM
Wasn't EISH the beta patch before the current one? I.e., make sure you are installing the beta patch from 27 February.
Yes EISH was the 4.1Beta (pre Feb 27) checksum.
Checksum after the Feb 27 Beta patch and before the France mission fix should be UHPF
Could everyone chime in and say whether they would be ready to start tomorrow night at about 8:30 pm EST, with the intention of playing until 1am?
I would like a couple more players.
I don't want to advertise the game on paradox though. However, if anyone knows anyone from P-dox who they can vouch for as a decent player who want emoragequit or something, and wants to approach them and see if they would be interested, that might be a good way to find a couple more.
What happens to your country if you can't play one night?
Quote from: DGuller on March 09, 2010, 12:40:20 PM
What happens to your country if you can't play one night?
Couple options:
1. It is placed on AI control.
2. We find a replacement for the night to babysit for you.
The expectation is that people can and will attend the gaming sessions, but at the same time, we all know that we all have lives/families/etc. that take precedence.
I will be here/ready to play tomorrow.
Who can I be? :homestar:
I've got CYLC (or CLYC or whatever my dislexic mind can remember) So I'm fine.
Quote from: Jaron on March 09, 2010, 02:14:16 PM
Who can I be? :homestar:
If you (or FB) are anybody, then I'm nobody.
Still sore over HIS? Okay then. :D
Quote from: Berkut on March 05, 2010, 01:26:07 PM
Berkut (England)
Berk, I'm sure we can work together. I'm sure our interests coincide, lets talk.
Quote
Habbaku (Ottoman)
Habs, lets not kid, we probably don't like each other too much. But I'm sure we can discuss issues in a civilized matter.
Quote
Habbakus Brother (Sweden)
Who? Does he/she/it have contact details?
Quote
katmai (France)
I'm sure we can find means to co-exist?
Quote
Hansmeister (Russia)
Once you conquer Lithuania I'll care. I have a "Partition Poland" event, do you?
Quote
Viking (Austria)
Kleves (Spain)
My Grandson is your Grandson! Let's not end up in a Personal Union, though, lets just act like we are :hugs:
Quote
Quote from: Jaron on March 09, 2010, 02:16:44 PM
Still sore over HIS? Okay then. :D
Not sore, just forewarned.
Quote from: Jaron on March 09, 2010, 02:14:16 PM
Who can I be? :homestar:
We still need an Incan player...
Quote from: Berkut on March 09, 2010, 02:23:01 PM
Quote from: Jaron on March 09, 2010, 02:14:16 PM
Who can I be? :homestar:
We still need an Incan player...
We can play the WWM and he can be "Top End".
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 02:14:28 PM
I've got CYLC (or CLYC or whatever my dislexic mind can remember) So I'm fine.
:)
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
Habbakus Brother (Sweden)
Who? Does he/she/it have contact details?
He's still awaiting forum approval. You can talk to him on Steam, though--I invited him to the Languish group.
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
Quote
Habbakus Brother (Sweden)
Who? Does he/she/it have contact details?
If Habbaku's
Brother is a she or an it, I would be surprised.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 09, 2010, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
Habbakus Brother (Sweden)
Who? Does he/she/it have contact details?
He's still awaiting forum approval. You can talk to him on Steam, though--I invited him to the Languish group.
He'll be waiting awhile since Neil is on vacation only stinkyconcrete can approve him.
Quote from: DGuller on March 09, 2010, 12:40:20 PM
What happens to your country if you can't play one night?
For what it's worth, I do hope that this question is a precursor to your joining us. :)
Quote from: ulmont on March 09, 2010, 02:48:26 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
Quote
Habbakus Brother (Sweden)
Who? Does he/she/it have contact details?
If Habbaku's Brother is a she or an it, I would be surprised.
I just talked to a friend who has a post op TV as a friend and calls "her" him. Be more open minded.
Or he was raised by a pack of wolves and his brother might be an it.
My brother was raised by the TV like all good Americans.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 09, 2010, 04:43:57 PM
My brother was raised by the TV like all good Americans.
But you, who is not a good American, were raised by wolves?
Quote from: Habbaku on March 09, 2010, 04:01:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 09, 2010, 12:40:20 PM
What happens to your country if you can't play one night?
For what it's worth, I do hope that this question is a precursor to your joining us. :)
I'm thinking about it. However, I can't play this and possibly next week, on the account of not having a Windows version that works for more than 2 hours at a time. How the fuck does it take Microsoft three weeks to just ship the fucking Windows 7 upgrade? :ultra:
Quote from: Viking on March 09, 2010, 04:45:00 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 09, 2010, 04:43:57 PM
My brother was raised by the TV like all good Americans.
But you, who is not a good American, were raised by wolves?
I was raised by national canals.
Who are we thinking of hosting?
Quote from: Berkut on March 08, 2010, 12:58:42 PM
We should get Seedy AND grumbler to play.
Seedy would make a fine Russian.
No way i can play this now. Come summer, I would be glad to take up a retiring/defunct power.
I need to get to work by 7am on a given school day.
alrighty, my only concern is quelled then.
Oh, I'm Hansmeister1970 on Steam, how do i join the group?
Invitation sent, Hans. Just log in to Steam and accept it and you're good to go.
OK, plan is to start tomorrow night, around 8:30 EST. I will host, and we will meet up on Steam. Please show up a few minutes early, Habbaku is in charge of technical coordination.
Habbu knows it's like herding cats.
fuck... 2:30 AM onwards.. meh, I'll be awake...
What about espionage limits? Are we going to ban the stability hits through esponage? Are we going to switch Castille to be the senior member of the PU with Aragon?
Yes, both Sow Discontent and Fund Patriots are banned due to their potential for abuse. War Taxes should also be banned, in my opinion.
Castille already starts the scenario as the senior member of the PU, so there's no worry there. They can usually diplo-annex Aragon so long as they have high diplomacy and good relations with them. Of course, who even knows if Kleves is going to play? Not like he's posted.
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 09, 2010, 10:05:33 PM
Oh, I'm Hansmeister1970 on Steam, how do i join the group?
Hah, now we know how old you are!
that was from a pre-CLYC variant.
Seems odd that they'd make that change and not put it in the patch notes. I wonder why they'd do that?
Anyhow, what's the easiest way to make the change? I imagine Berkut would simply "host" a game, save it on January 1st, exit out, then edit it, then use that for our MP "save." We'd all have to download the file from him (automatic, nothing to it), but that'd be easier than everyone editing their own.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 10, 2010, 12:46:13 PM
Seems odd that they'd make that change and not put it in the patch notes. I wonder why they'd do that?
Anyhow, what's the easiest way to make the change? I imagine Berkut would simply "host" a game, save it on January 1st, exit out, then edit it, then use that for our MP "save." We'd all have to download the file from him (automatic, nothing to it), but that'd be easier than everyone editing their own.
I just hope I'm still emperor.
any sign of kleves?
er what patch are we using as i'm getting weird ass checksum
Yeah restarted and getting right one now.
did steam go kaput ?
CYLC
but steam just kicked me off
so, how does this work through hamachi
do I join a network or do I use the hamachi IP through EU3?
Quote from: Viking on March 10, 2010, 08:25:39 PM
so, how does this work through hamachi
do I join a network or do I use the hamachi IP through EU3?
If working right we will join mp game with the ip address being berkuts(host?) hamachi one....of course hamachi tells me his connection is relay tunnel,blocked.
do I create or join a hamachi network?
Quote from: Viking on March 10, 2010, 08:28:08 PM
do I create or join a hamachi network?
join,
the specific name is languishmp, but unsure password.
password required
LOL is it:jaron?
That Imperial Ban against Venice when it was allied to Bohemia Casus Belli I got was evil. Brescia, Verona, Friulu, Sudety, Ertz, Moravai, Niederlausitz, Oberlausitz, Breslau and Schlesien all for just 4 infamy.
Evil I say, just Evil.
It seems everyone's Austria expands faster than mine. :P
Quote from: Solmyr on March 11, 2010, 08:00:55 AM
It seems everyone's Austria expands faster than mine. :P
However, your expansion method was by far the most subtle.
I took 18 provinces in the first session, but the bulk of my infamy came from the 10 vassals I took. I vassalized all the electors except Bohemia. All that manpower, prestige and those extra armies of 10 wealthy OPMs, TPMs and 3PMs is worth the infamy I got from doing that.
Habbaku's Ottomans grew faster.
That session was pretty much a disaster for England.
My first TWO explorers both died at sea before they found anything. The only thing good about that was that they were both terrible - 0 maneuver (which, IIRC, is the relevant stat for exploration). By the time I found some crap province in Canada, the Portuguses had already established colonies in New England (Manhattan).
Threw a shitty colony into Timoluk or something just so my shitty explorers would stop dieing trying to cross from Iceland, then dropped another in Massaschusetts. Natives rebelled here and there, Scots got uppity, religious revolts....uggh, it has been pretty bad. I haven't even gotten the "take over Scotland" mission so I can for Great Britain. I think I have the vassalize Scotland mission now. WTF - I don't want to vassalize them!
Inflation is up, and we just started the Protestant Reformation. We shall see how things go.
Thanks everyone for playing - it went pretty smooth I thought.
Still plenty of room for more people to join.
Once again, Austria is shaping up to be the 800lb gorilla...
Someone needs to post screens.
Berkut you forget the most shameful episode in English history, your time as the lesser partner under me in a PU.
Katmai should be grateful that when Germany and England were of one mind France survived.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 08:57:38 AM
Someone needs to post screens.
I really should have taken a screenshot of the PU message.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 08:57:59 AM
Berkut you forget the most shameful episode in English history, your time as the lesser partner under me in a PU.
Your right, I HAD forgotten that!
Thanks for fucking reminding me!
I had this bizarro series of events where apparently Henry murdered his daughter Mary and buried here in the basement, and people kept finding the bodies, so I had to kill them. After I offed three people, I finally just gave it up and that is when I ended up in the PU.
Thanks for bringing that all back up, much appreciated. Not.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 09:00:17 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 08:57:59 AM
Berkut you forget the most shameful episode in English history, your time as the lesser partner under me in a PU.
Your right, I HAD forgotten that!
Thanks for fucking reminding me!
I had this bizarro series of events where apparently Henry murdered his daughter Mary and buried here in the basement, and people kept finding the bodies, so I had to kill them. After I offed three people, I finally just gave it up and that is when I ended up in the PU.
Thanks for bringing that all back up, much appreciated. Not.
I think you should thank me for not sending you gifts. Being emperor I had more diplomats, the hapsburg diplomatic bonus and enough money to fund my largesse. And then going to war with spain and portugal, which would surely hurt you more than me.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:04:15 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 09:00:17 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 08:57:59 AM
Berkut you forget the most shameful episode in English history, your time as the lesser partner under me in a PU.
Your right, I HAD forgotten that!
Thanks for fucking reminding me!
I had this bizarro series of events where apparently Henry murdered his daughter Mary and buried here in the basement, and people kept finding the bodies, so I had to kill them. After I offed three people, I finally just gave it up and that is when I ended up in the PU.
Thanks for bringing that all back up, much appreciated. Not.
I think you should thank me for not sending you gifts. Being emperor I had more diplomats, the hapsburg diplomatic bonus and enough money to fund my largesse. And then going to war with spain and portugal, which would surely hurt you more than me.
I don't understand how all the dynasty stuff works well enough to be impressed or not.
I kept trying to ask, but all I could get from Habs was "HE CONTROLS YOU SPAM INSULT!" but I still controlled my units and everything as far as I could tell, so I still don't know what he meant.
I am guessing you were nice about it, which is why I did not learn how bad it was.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 09:07:57 AM
I don't understand how all the dynasty stuff works well enough to be impressed or not.
I kept trying to ask, but all I could get from Habs was "HE CONTROLS YOU SPAM INSULT!" but I still controlled my units and everything as far as I could tell, so I still don't know what he meant.
I am guessing you were nice about it, which is why I did not learn how bad it was.
Basically you were my vassal and you could not refuse any call and you couldn't break the PU. If I declared war on anybody you would be at war with no say in the matter.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 09:07:57 AM
I don't understand how all the dynasty stuff works well enough to be impressed or not.
I kept trying to ask, but all I could get from Habs was "HE CONTROLS YOU SPAM INSULT!" but I still controlled my units and everything as far as I could tell, so I still don't know what he meant.
I am guessing you were nice about it, which is why I did not learn how bad it was.
Basically you were my vassal and you could not refuse any call and you couldn't break the PU. If I declared war on anybody you would be at war with no say in the matter.
But so what, as long as I still control my own units?
You can put me at war, but you couldn't make me fight...right? So other than having whoever I am at war with screwing with me, is it that big of a deal?
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 09:11:53 AM
But so what, as long as I still control my own units?
You can put me at war, but you couldn't make me fight...right? So other than having whoever I am at war with screwing with me, is it that big of a deal?
Yes you control your own units. You control your money etc. I could have made you go to war.
That's the difference between 1399 and 1492 starts, in 1492 every continental power (even Muscovy) is much better off than in 1399, but England is worse off.
Also Berk, the game expects you to vassalize Scotland and diploannex them and deals out missions to that end. If you want to conquer it you'll have to do it yourself. You do get a mission to conquer the Irish though.
conquer_scotland = {
type = country
allow = {
or = {
tag = ENG
tag = GBR
}
not = { highlands = { owned_by = this } }
not = { lowlands = { owned_by = this } }
exists = SCO
SCO = {
not = { vassal_of = ENG }
not = { vassal_of = GBR }
is_lesser_in_union = no
}
not = { relation = { who = SCO value = 50 } }
is_lesser_in_union = no
is_subject = no
}
abort = {
or = {
SCO = {
or = {
vassal_of = ENG
vassal_of = GBR
is_lesser_in_union = yes
}
}
is_lesser_in_union = yes
is_subject = yes
}
}
success = {
highlands = { owned_by = this }
lowlands = { owned_by = this }
}
chance = {
factor = 1000
modifier = {
factor = 2
mil = 7
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
mil = 8
}
}
immediate = {
lowlands = {
limit = { NOT = { owned_by = THIS } }
add_temp_claim = THIS
}
}
abort_effect = {
lowlands = {
remove_temp_claim = THIS
}
}
effect = {
lowlands = { add_core = THIS }
prestige = 0.1
}
}
Quote from: Solmyr on March 11, 2010, 09:36:38 AM
That's the difference between 1399 and 1492 starts, in 1492 every continental power (even Muscovy) is much better off than in 1399, but England is worse off.
Also Berk, the game expects you to vassalize Scotland and diploannex them and deals out missions to that end. If you want to conquer it you'll have to do it yourself. You do get a mission to conquer the Irish though.
How do you diploannex something?
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 10:05:25 AM
How do you diploannex something?
Have as a vassal, for at least 10 years, at peace, allied, 190+ relations and more than 10 years since the last diploannexation.
Ok, then you'll have to tank your relations with them I guess, to get the conquer mission. Although it might still give you the "improve relations with Scotland" mission. :P
Quote from: Solmyr on March 11, 2010, 10:46:01 AM
Ok, then you'll have to tank your relations with them I guess, to get the conquer mission. Although it might still give you the "improve relations with Scotland" mission. :P
Wait 5 years and take the 5 prestige hit.
Are there some gentlemen's rules in the multiplayer that prevented Viking from bending Berkut over with the PU?
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 11:24:31 AM
Are there some gentlemen's rules in the multiplayer that prevented Viking from bending Berkut over with the PU?
My Spin: No need to ruin the game just because Berkut made the mistake of accepting one of my daughters.
Bismarcks Spin: No need to ruin an obivously good relationship with England.
Machiavelli's Spin: I had 30 badboy at the time, I couldn't afford to boost my badboy too much past 30.
The only thing I really could have done was to start some wars England would be in but unable to get out of. England could have ignored a war with France or any continental power. So it had to be a boat faring AI nation eg Castille, Portugal or Aragon, none of which I had casus against. Then there is the danger that Berkut wins those wars, takes some useful colonies, atlantic isles and/or a COT.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 11:24:31 AM
Are there some gentlemen's rules in the multiplayer that prevented Viking from bending Berkut over with the PU?
I got the impression that in this particular instance, the PU was not nearly as dangerous as it could be.
He could get me into a war with someone, but I am England - so what? I can ignore it until they get bored and WP out.
And he can't screw me without a cost to himself as well - HE has to go to war also, and the only powers that *could* be troubling to me would be troubling to him as well, in that he doesn't have a CB against them.
So basically, it would take some "work" for him to hose me, would hurt himself in the process, and piss me off for no particularly good reason early in a long game.
yes, the most evil thing I could have done would be to send him gifts to keep the relationship at 100+.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 11:46:07 AM
yes, the most evil thing I could have done would be to send him gifts to keep the relationship at 100+.
That would indeed be pretty evil. Wouldn't that leave him as your bitch for as long as you desired?
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 11:46:07 AM
yes, the most evil thing I could have done would be to send him gifts to keep the relationship at 100+.
That would indeed be pretty evil. Wouldn't that leave him as your bitch for as long as you desired?
Until I inherit him. :hug:
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 12:15:20 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 11:46:07 AM
yes, the most evil thing I could have done would be to send him gifts to keep the relationship at 100+.
That would indeed be pretty evil. Wouldn't that leave him as your bitch for as long as you desired?
Until I inherit him. :hug:
I dunno - are insults more effective than gifts? Plus there are other neg relations actions as well.
I think I could DOW you as well to break the union, if I had to.
Would Berkut really resort to using insults? :rolleyes:
And, no, you can't DOW your PU partner, at least not in single player. In single player, all you can do is insult the master partner and wait for him to keel over.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 12:21:22 PM
Would Berkut really resort to using insults? :rolleyes:
And, no, you can't DOW your PU partner, at least not in single player. In single player, all you can do is insult the master partner and wait for him to keel over.
Er, you can. The first thing I did in my Holland game is break the alliance with Hainaut and DOW them. That broke the PU. You might need bad relations first, though.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 11, 2010, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 12:21:22 PM
Would Berkut really resort to using insults? :rolleyes:
And, no, you can't DOW your PU partner, at least not in single player. In single player, all you can do is insult the master partner and wait for him to keel over.
Er, you can. The first thing I did in my Holland game is break the alliance with Hainaut and DOW them. That broke the PU. You might need bad relations first, though.
Really? That must've been changed in some patch then. When I played Sweden or Brandenburg, both of which start as minor PU bitches, there was nothing that I could do to immediately exit the union. The ruling monarch had to die or be annexed.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 12:21:22 PM
Would Berkut really resort to using insults? :rolleyes:
And, no, you can't DOW your PU partner, at least not in single player. In single player, all you can do is insult the master partner and wait for him to keel over.
Ah, yes, such was the recourse of berkut to sink to such profanity in diplomatic relations. All that "Your father was a hamster and your mother smelt of elderberries!" stuff didn't feel quite kosher.
So DG, you going to join us in this? Even losing it is a lot of fun.
Just tested it, a minor PU partner can break the alliance and then DOW even at high relations, you get a new random ruler upon DOW. Started the game with Holland, Brandenburg, and Sweden and they all can do it.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 12:33:24 PM
So DG, you going to join us in this? Even losing it is a lot of fun.
So far it has only been circling of wagons. A few disasters, but nothing major (apart from AI Spain beating Sweden) and Hansy and Berkut being stuck in regencies and PUs.
France thought that having a few protestants was a catastrophy, Russia couldn't read the decisions menu, Sweden couldn't beat an AI invasion of his countrye, England couldn't find an Englisman to rule the country (Hapsburgs and Douglases the lot of them) and the Ottomans thought that 9 was alot of infamy. I spent the entire first period constantly at war with enemies that I outnumber at least 5 to 1.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 12:16:56 PM
I dunno - are insults more effective than gifts? Plus there are other neg relations actions as well.
I think I could DOW you as well to break the union, if I had to.
I have the Hapsburg diplo bonus, plus the extra diplomats I get from being emperor.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 12:33:24 PM
So DG, you going to join us in this? Even losing it is a lot of fun.
Probably, but only after I get my Windows 7 upgrade in the mail. My Windows 7 RC has expired, and reboots every 2 hours.
Actually, I checked the tracking information, and I should have the Windows soon. I should definitely be squared away by next Wednesday. What country can I play?
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 01:43:10 PM
Actually, I checked the tracking information, and I should have the Windows soon. I should definitely be squared away by next Wednesday. What country can I play?
Poland, Denmark, Naples, Castille are non-stupid options. I prefer Castille, the other three are slightly at my mercy.
Portugal is an option as well, although I think I am going to be at war with them before much longer.
That may be an incentive for you though...:P
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 01:55:05 PM
Portugal is an option as well, although I think I am going to be at war with them before much longer.
That may be an incentive for you though...:P
Portugal yes, they have gone gangbusters in america
I've never played multiplayer EU before, so I think I need a country that would take the most amount of effort to fuck up. Sounds like Castille is the best option by far.
I would really encourage you to play Castille, DG. If you don't, I'm going to have to end up declaring war on them just to help my brother get his Swedish provinces back because, let's face it, a game in which Spain is in Sweden in 1530 is just silly.
Hopefully, if you do play them, you'll sell the provinces back for next to nothing (if not nothing) and immediately start clocking Aragon so you can declare Spain.
Generally-speaking, playing multiplayer EU is very similar to playing single-player, with a little bit of an easier time of expanding initially since all the majors will be controlled by people more reticent to go to war than any AI will. Of course, the payoff for winning a war against a human is that much sweeter. :menace:
Someone needs to post SS and such.
All right, put me down for Castille. I hope you're not hustling a newbie for those Swedish territories.
I'm not playing in the game. I can see why Castille may well want to sell some Swedish provinces back to Sweden (wrong culture, wrong religion, far away and hard to defend), but I can't imagine why you'd want to do so for a purely nominal price.
Spain in Sweden? I missed that.
And Viking it wasn't a few prottys, it's like half of my provinces, and with the religious zeal modifier I've only been able to convert back two of them, while having Protestant revolts pop up causing me to play whack a mole.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 02:19:44 PM
I would really encourage you to play Castille, DG. If you don't, I'm going to have to end up declaring war on them just to help my brother get his Swedish provinces back because, let's face it, a game in which Spain is in Sweden in 1530 is just silly.
Hopefully, if you do play them, you'll sell the provinces back for next to nothing (if not nothing) and immediately start clocking Aragon so you can declare Spain.
Generally-speaking, playing multiplayer EU is very similar to playing single-player, with a little bit of an easier time of expanding initially since all the majors will be controlled by people more reticent to go to war than any AI will. Of course, the payoff for winning a war against a human is that much sweeter. :menace:
What Payoff? If I were to cash in my Imperial Ban and attack France. I'd probably win 1 vs 1, my army is bigger and I have all my vassals. But would I get to win? Especially since if it looked like I was winning I'd have to deal with the english, swedes, muscovices and ottomans as well. Best case scenario I get my two Imperial Provinces (Franche Comte and Provence), worst case scenario I'm left being forced to release Holland, Milan and Flanders not to mention cancelling all my vassals. Not worth it.
PvP can fuck you up a lot more than SP, you just can't win as much as you might in SP.
Provence is no longer an imperial province :P
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1528.jpg&hash=77e1647920e942b6b51e77559784d3b74578beb7)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1528army.jpg&hash=02ae17d0904a1935f3e096136e3c5d40fba91e1e)
No wonder England loses all its wars...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1528econ.jpg&hash=cfd465a9f9a079b0ee2d2fe877a1f390271aa675)
Ugly.
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 02:37:47 PM
Spain in Sweden? I missed that.
And Viking it wasn't a few prottys, it's like half of my provinces, and with the religious zeal modifier I've only been able to convert back two of them, while having Protestant revolts pop up causing me to play whack a mole.
I counted 5 or 6 provinces
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 02:32:54 PM
All right, put me down for Castille. I hope you're not hustling a newbie for those Swedish territories.
I figure it'd be fair to reset your inflation and give Sweden back the provinces, since the AI Castille seems to have spent itself into a hole prosecuting that war.
Ugly how?
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 02:52:28 PM
Ugly how?
England somehow being below Sweden in income.
Kudos to A.I. Portugal, Wu and Khorsan, good show for not letting the side down.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 02:52:28 PM
Ugly how?
England somehow being below Sweden in income.
Well, one was played by a complete n00b who didn't know how to conduct a war or run a country. The other was run by Berkut.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 02:52:28 PM
Ugly how?
England somehow being below Sweden in income.
In the middle of the Reformation?
I dunno - not sure what else I am supposed to do. I get a magistrate every 5 years or so, so minimal Land reform. I was doing rather well as far as Trade, then someone kicked me out of every single COT or some crap like that.
My colonies are finally starting to kick in, I guess, but they all produce super valuable things like Fish.
I am beginning to suspect Habs cheats.
Build roads and post offices as well as expand the bureaucracy as well as convert to Administrative Monarchy and you'll be getting 1.5 per year. Do roads first, then do the others.
I want to know how Habs can top income charts while expanding as much as everyone else. :P
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
Build roads and post offices as well as expand the bureaucracy as well as convert to Administrative Monarchy and you'll be getting 1.5 per year. Do roads first, then do the others.
I will get right on that with my 1 magistrate every 12 years.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 04:06:04 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
Build roads and post offices as well as expand the bureaucracy as well as convert to Administrative Monarchy and you'll be getting 1.5 per year. Do roads first, then do the others.
I will get right on that with my 1 magistrate every 12 years.
Administrative Monarchy gives you 0.9 per year. Or get 30 provinces and choose Empire which gives you 1.0 per year.
Just got to AM, actually. And I don't have anywhere near 30 provinces.
With my current -2 stab, I don't see myself making any government changes right away though.
Will ahve to keep muddling on with my 1 magistrate every 15 years.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 04:15:23 PM
Just got to AM, actually. And I don't have anywhere near 30 provinces.
With my current -2 stab, I don't see myself making any government changes right away though.
Will ahve to keep muddling on with my 1 magistrate every 15 years.
administrative_monarchy = {
monarchy = yes
valid_for_new_country = yes
adm_efficiency = 1.15
allowed_conversion = {
constitutional_monarchy = 0.5
administrative_republic = 2.0
despotic_monarchy = 2.0
}
minimum_policy = {
centralization_decentralization = -3
}
#bonus
production_efficiency = 0.1
officials = 0.9
}You should be getting 0.9 per year if you have AM.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 04:15:23 PM
Just got to AM, actually. And I don't have anywhere near 30 provinces.
With my current -2 stab, I don't see myself making any government changes right away though.
Will ahve to keep muddling on with my 1 magistrate every 15 years.
administrative_monarchy = {
monarchy = yes
valid_for_new_country = yes
adm_efficiency = 1.15
allowed_conversion = {
constitutional_monarchy = 0.5
administrative_republic = 2.0
despotic_monarchy = 2.0
}
minimum_policy = {
centralization_decentralization = -3
}
#bonus
production_efficiency = 0.1
officials = 0.9
}
You should be getting 0.9 per year if you have AM.
No, I mean I just got the tech for AM - I am still FM at the moment. And when I got said tech, I was already at -2 stab. Probably should have waited for it to start the Reformation, but the Prots were really starting to bitch a lot.
What is adm_efficiency, btw?
How often you can move sliders, 1=10 years.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
Build roads and post offices as well as expand the bureaucracy as well as convert to Administrative Monarchy and you'll be getting 1.5 per year. Do roads first, then do the others.
Haven't the roads and the post offices been nerfed? At +0.01 bonus, it's going to take you 100 years to pay back that lost magistrate.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 04:24:08 PM
What is adm_efficiency, btw?
From the EU Wiki
QuoteAdministrative Efficiency refers to the time in years which must elapse between moves of a slider, for instance the Administrative Republic form of government has an administrative efficiency of 12, meaning that 12 years must pass between successive movements.
I think you multiply that number by some constant to get the slider change period.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 04:33:40 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
Build roads and post offices as well as expand the bureaucracy as well as convert to Administrative Monarchy and you'll be getting 1.5 per year. Do roads first, then do the others.
Haven't the roads and the post offices been nerfed? At +0.01 bonus, it's going to take you 100 years to pay back that lost magistrate.
But remember that post offices and roads are still worthwhile on their own.
post_office = {
local_trade_income_modifier = 0.1
officials = 0.01
icon = 11
}road_network = {
local_manpower_modifier = 0.01
local_trade_income_modifier = 0.03
local_tax_modifier = 0.03
officials = 0.01
icon = 1
}
Is there anything that a noob should know about EU multiplayer games? Technical stuff, the way human-human diplomacy is conducted, etc.?
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 04:52:44 PM
Is there anything that a noob should know about EU multiplayer games? Technical stuff, the way human-human diplomacy is conducted, etc.?
It's the same. But in general proclaim guarantees to allow yourself to support your allies. If you are Spain then your Hapsburg brothers in Germany will be seeking arrangements of the status of italy and other localities.
If you are Spain, you should ignore what the current 800-pound gorilla tells you and try to take a slice of Italy for yourself.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 11, 2010, 04:01:36 PM
I want to know how Habs can top income charts while expanding as much as everyone else. :P
I'd have to look at each other country in turn to tell you what they're doing wrong, but somewhere along the lines they are fucking up.
What I want to know is how you get the map-shot taken from in-game with F12 to show up properly like you do.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2010, 03:46:00 PM
In the middle of the Reformation?
Sweden is also in the middle of the Reformation and, as you may have noticed, lost a pretty big war against Castille.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:10:50 PM
If you are Spain, you should ignore what the current 800-pound gorilla tells you and try to take a slice of Italy for yourself.
Well, your presumption that "seeking arrangements" means "all your greaseball base are belong to us" is highly presumptive. I presume he wants part of Italy and I'm happy to discuss it.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on March 11, 2010, 04:01:36 PM
I want to know how Habs can top income charts while expanding as much as everyone else. :P
I'd have to look at each other country in turn to tell you what they're doing wrong, but somewhere along the lines they are fucking up.
What I want to know is how you get the map-shot taken from in-game with F12 to show up properly like you do.
try "Print Screen" and then Ctrl-V in paint.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
try "Print Screen" and then Ctrl-V in paint.
:rolleyes:
It doesn't look like spain has conquered the swedish provinces on the map you posted
Which is exactly why I'm trying to figure out how to get a clearer map, Viking.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:10:50 PM
If you are Spain, you should ignore what the current 800-pound gorilla tells you and try to take a slice of Italy for yourself.
Well, your presumption that "seeking arrangements" means "all your greaseball base are belong to us" is highly presumptive. I presume he wants part of Italy and I'm happy to discuss it.
You've already got all of the parts worth having. I'm not saying he shouldn't try to bargain over them with you, but I don't suspect you'll freely give up so many universities. Then again, I don't understand why Katmai just let you do it, so what do I know?
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:38:32 PM
You've already got all of the parts worth having. I'm not saying he shouldn't try to bargain over them with you, but I don't suspect you'll freely give up so many universities. Then again, I don't understand why Katmai just let you do it, so what do I know?
We discussed it in a civilized manner. No threats or intimidation was used.
It's just you and Berkut that assume that just because my lips are moving I must be making threats. I have kept my deals. Katmai has benefited immensely from having an army 1/3 the size of mine. I, however, have been expecting a stab and have been preparing to take my righteous wrath out on whoever stabs me. As far as I'm concerned Katmai has benefited most from my diplomacy.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:37:44 PM
Which is exactly why I'm trying to figure out how to get a clearer map, Viking.
Change your screen resolution to the highest within the game (1920x1200). Then zoom to the relevant areas and print screen alt-tab out and ctrl-v into paint. It's better to do it that way than trying to get all of europe... or send me the file and I'll do it.
Or I could just wait until Sol gives me an answer--I don't want an in-depth map, just the outline that's gotten by using F12.
We discussed it before hand.
But I had no idea how far reaching his intentions were as was too focused on vassals, prottys and exploring, till it was late in session and saw the white blob creeping closer in south besides the walloonian borders.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
Or I could just wait until Sol gives me an answer--I don't want an in-depth map, just the outline that's gotten by using F12.
its in the Screenshots folder
like this (1024x768) resized in imageshack
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg535.imageshack.us%2Fimg535%2F2425%2Feu316281944.jpg&hash=aa05ef8838ff0a8ac7275a1c84df7af7b1ba94e7)
or like this?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg696.imageshack.us%2Fimg696%2F6565%2Feuropev.jpg&hash=e65cd72842464568c5a50b9a2bd04b62e60550ae)
THe 2nd version
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 08:00:04 PM
We discussed it before hand.
But I had no idea how far reaching his intentions were as was too focused on vassals, prottys and exploring, till it was late in session and saw the white blob creeping closer in south besides the walloonian borders.
I was under the impression that you knew I'd be doing that?
I played through a couple of years of Berkut's England to see how bad things really were. Turns out they're pretty bad. Really bad. So bad that his people were overjoyed when the king kicked off :
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Flolengland.jpg&hash=35e3d4d7e50f84d548ae97309a75129f59e4b516)
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 08:25:13 PM
THe 2nd version
press f12 and you'll get a file in the "Europa Universalis III/Screenshots" folder, which you then open in pain, cut out the bit you want and create a new image, and zoom in to make it the right size.
Holy shit. That HRE mechanic is just too powerful for either Austria or Bohemia (whichever one manages to lock up the elections). Where is the Spanish Sweden anyway?
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 08:00:04 PM
We discussed it before hand.
But I had no idea how far reaching his intentions were as was too focused on vassals, prottys and exploring, till it was late in session and saw the white blob creeping closer in south besides the walloonian borders.
I was under the impression that you knew I'd be doing that?
I knew you were going to keep hands off of savoy, not that you were going to swallow up northern Italy and the Swiss.
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 08:30:03 PM
I knew you were going to keep hands off of savoy, not that you were going to swallow up northern Italy and the Swiss.
Austria not taking Milan WTF?
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 08:28:31 PM
Holy shit. That HRE mechanic is just too powerful for either Austria or Bohemia (whichever one manages to lock up the elections). Where is the Spanish Sweden anyway?
The map is from 1502 an intermediate save that Habbaku created on a rehost.
And do you know how much work dealing with the empire is? The Manpower, Prestige and Diplomats are really cool, but it is hard work.
Yeah dg it's even bigger than that :lol:
One more question about MP. How is game speed handled? What happens if someone has to pee or something?
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 08:28:31 PM
Holy shit. That HRE mechanic is just too powerful for either Austria or Bohemia (whichever one manages to lock up the elections). Where is the Spanish Sweden anyway?
The map is from 1502 an intermediate save that Habbaku created on a rehost.
And do you know how much work dealing with the empire is? The Manpower, Prestige and Diplomats are really cool, but it is hard work.
It's so hard to be popular with the ladies, you hardly ever get to sleep at home.
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 08:43:50 PM
Yeah dg it's even bigger than that :lol:
by 5 provinces
liguria, mantua, milan, friuli and liege
that's it.
Edit: I had Imperial Ban on Liguria and Friuli, Conquest Mission on Milan and Mantua and a CB shield on Liege. Hardly a mad crazy dash for unrealistic conquests.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 08:44:42 PM
One more question about MP. How is game speed handled? What happens if someone has to pee or something?
usually at 3, but from time to time (usually during my repeated wars in the empire) it is slowed down by request for a short time, as long as nobody abuses that then that won't be an issue.
Oh and Viking I haven't gone after Bar as no CB on them as of yet.
In 1530 The Hapsburgs ruled pretty much what I have now (with a few exceptions both ways, I don't have bohemia, but do have liguria)
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 08:55:33 PM
Oh and Viking I haven't gone after Bar as no CB on them as of yet.
Well, I don't mind. Bar has reliably both converted back to protestantism and neglected to get allies so it is a convenient place for me to collect Imperial Mojo Points.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 08:28:31 PM
Holy shit. That HRE mechanic is just too powerful for either Austria or Bohemia (whichever one manages to lock up the elections). Where is the Spanish Sweden anyway?
It is rather powerful, yes, but nothing a coalition couldn't bring down. A determined group of, say, 60,000 Turks, 40,000 French, 20,000 English, 20,000 Swedes and 30,000 Spanish could force the Empire to the peace table and remove a lot of their vassals (not to mention releasing Italy back to its city-state format).
Naturally, the Russians would sit on the sidelines during this hypothetical war. Then again, Viking might be encouraged to release some of those vassals of his just by the mere threat of war.
Oops, I forgot it's not a 1399 start. I thought the blob conquered Netherlands during the session.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:04:10 PM
In 1530 The Hapsburgs ruled pretty much what I have now (with a few exceptions both ways, I don't have bohemia, but do have liguria)
And do have a plethora of vassals in Germany that they didn't have. And don't have a rather large Schmalkaldic League forming up against you to prevent your rapacious ways.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 09:06:02 PM
Oops, I forgot it's not a 1399 start. I thought the blob conquered Netherlands during the session.
Yeah, I think that's actually the most overpowered bit of the 1492 setup for Austria. If the war-aim of a potential coalition against Austria were merely to free the Netherlands/Flanders from the Emperor's grip then that would go a long way towards curbing Austria's power.
Why only 40k French ?
I can double that amount easily if need be.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 09:05:29 PM
It is rather powerful, yes, but nothing a coalition couldn't bring down. A determined group of, say, 60,000 Austrians, 40,000 French, 20,000 English, 20,000 Swedes and 30,000 Spanish could force the Ottoman Empire to the peace table and remove a lot of their vassals (not to mention releasing the Levant back to its city-state format).
Naturally, the Russians would sit on the sidelines during this hypothetical war. Then again, Habbaku might be encouraged to release some of those vassals of his just by the mere threat of war.
there, fixed your post for you
I didn't want to make it seem like I was doing all the heavy lifting. Then again, such a hypothetical coalition would probably see France gaining the most (what with taking all the Walloon provinces and freeing some of the Italian minors), so their contributing as much as possible would be nice.
That and I suspect Sweden and Britain's efforts would be...small until their current problems are settled.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 09:05:29 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2010, 08:28:31 PM
It is rather powerful, yes, but nothing a coalition couldn't bring down. A determined group of, say, 60,000 Austrians, 40,000 French, 20,000 English, 20,000 Swedes and 30,000 Spanish could force the Ottoman Empire to the peace table and remove a lot of their vassals (not to mention releasing the Levant back to its city-state format).
Naturally, the Russians would sit on the sidelines during this hypothetical war. Then again, Habbaku might be encouraged to release some of those vassals of his just by the mere threat of war.
there, fixed your post for you
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 09:06:25 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:04:10 PM
In 1530 The Hapsburgs ruled pretty much what I have now (with a few exceptions both ways, I don't have bohemia, but do have liguria)
And do have a plethora of vassals in Germany that they didn't have. And don't have a rather large Schmalkaldic League forming up against you to prevent your rapacious ways.
I have fought these schmalkaldic league wannabes about 5 times. I've got the Infamy to prove it.
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:17:11 PM
I have fought these schmalkaldic league wannabes about 5 times. I've got the Infamy to prove it.
And the prestige and the newly-minted vassals. ;)
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 09:18:45 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 11, 2010, 09:17:11 PM
I have fought these schmalkaldic league wannabes about 5 times. I've got the Infamy to prove it.
And the prestige and the newly-minted vassals. ;)
Anything I have done, you can do just as well. I'm Emperor, I get loads of prestige anyway.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 08:26:14 PM
I played through a couple of years of Berkut's England to see how bad things really were. Turns out they're pretty bad. Really bad. So bad that his people were overjoyed when the king kicked off :
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Flolengland.jpg&hash=35e3d4d7e50f84d548ae97309a75129f59e4b516)
Yeah, I saw that in one of my vain attempts to figure out how to salvage this disaster.
What bizarro event chain is going on behind the scenes that saw my previous leader murdering his own heir, and shoving her body behind a wall in a cellar, then killing off people who found it, and now this?
I sure hope he dies quickly - I really need that -2 RR.
Is this the Scottish king?
Yep.
I am: back! Are there any countries left? Besides Portugal? :yuk:
Quote from: Kleves on March 11, 2010, 11:20:45 PM
I am: back! Are there any countries left? Besides Portugal? :yuk:
not sure if teutonic order is still alive with Viking on the rampage.
Quote from: Kleves on March 11, 2010, 11:20:45 PM
I am: back! Are there any countries left? Besides Portugal? :yuk:
Assuming you actually want to play and will pay attention to the thread, I think your best bet for playable countries are Portugal, Brandenburg (TO is dead, Brandenburg can eventually form Prussia), or Lithuania (since Poland is...less than workable at the moment.
Of course, if you relish a challenge, you might play Poland and try to reclaim everything (I'd help you against Hungary, at least).
Out of those, Portugal seems the most playable. They're not about to be annexed or something, I hope.
Hungary is also a viable option--they've gotten rather large, of late...
And no, Portugal is not about to get annexed. When England gets its shit together, however, I suspect you may run up against them in North America.
And maybe the French too.
Portugal went buckwild in north America
Portugal went wild just about everywhere. They could stand to be pared down and focus their efforts a bit more.
Indeed. Some paring would be a very fine idea.
Indeed English north America is too large.
Quote from: katmai on March 12, 2010, 12:18:36 AM
Indeed English north America is too large.
Yeah, both of my colonies are out of control!
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 12:19:42 AM
Quote from: katmai on March 12, 2010, 12:18:36 AM
Indeed English north America is too large.
Yeah, both of my colonies are out of control!
I know I think I need to take control of them.
I wish I had colonies. :(
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
Or I could just wait until Sol gives me an answer--I don't want an in-depth map, just the outline that's gotten by using F12.
I just take the map screenie using F12, then open it and re-save it as a PNG file. My resolution is 1920x1200.
Don't save it as a JPG file, that muddles it up.
Quote from: katmai on March 11, 2010, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: Kleves on March 11, 2010, 11:20:45 PM
I am: back! Are there any countries left? Besides Portugal? :yuk:
not sure if teutonic order is still alive with Viking on the rampage.
That was A.I. Poland, not me.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 11, 2010, 11:53:20 PM
Assuming you actually want to play and will pay attention to the thread, I think your best bet for playable countries are Portugal, Brandenburg (TO is dead, Brandenburg can eventually form Prussia), or Lithuania (since Poland is...less than workable at the moment.
Of course, if you relish a challenge, you might play Poland and try to reclaim everything (I'd help you against Hungary, at least).
TO is dead
LO is alive. Still Viable.
Poland has lost 1 province to Hungary, 2 provinces to Austria, but has annexed the 3 province TO. Still viable.
Lithuania is weakened but no longer in the PU. Still Viable.
Brandenburg is a 3PM and a vassal of Austria. Not Viable.
Hungary is viable.
Portugal is viable.
Denmark is viable.
BTW I will emoragequit if you gang up on me.
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
BTW I will emoragequit if you gang up on me.
Oh man, don't promise them that!
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
BTW I will emoragequit if you gang up on me.
Oh man, don't promise them that!
I mean, a coalition of European nations cooperating to bring down the leading power is just SOOOOOO gamey.
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 09:10:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
BTW I will emoragequit if you gang up on me.
Oh man, don't promise them that!
I mean, a coalition of European nations cooperating to bring down the leading power is just SOOOOOO gamey.
No kidding. One doesn't volunteer to play Austria thinking that someone might gang up on them!
The entire point of MP EU3 is carefully arranged 1v1 fights.
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 09:10:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
BTW I will emoragequit if you gang up on me.
Oh man, don't promise them that!
I mean, a coalition of European nations cooperating to bring down the leading power is just SOOOOOO gamey.
No kidding. One doesn't volunteer to play Austria thinking that someone might gang up on them!
The entire point of MP EU3 is carefully arranged 1v1 fights.
Exactly. And beating up on the A.I.
England is accepting gifts at this time.
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 09:40:35 AM
England is accepting gifts at this time.
There was a time when you would have refused.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465615
That is why I said "at *this* time".
All I need to get through this bloody reformation is
1. Some cash
2. A dead king.
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 10:07:08 AM
That is why I said "at *this* time".
All I need to get through this bloody reformation is
1. Some cash
2. A dead king.
1. Take a loan, you can pay it back when you are at +3
2. Make your monarch a general, he'll live shorter.
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 10:17:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 10:07:08 AM
That is why I said "at *this* time".
All I need to get through this bloody reformation is
1. Some cash
2. A dead king.
1. Take a loan, you can pay it back when you are at +3
2. Make your monarch a general, he'll live shorter.
1. Taking loans are much too expensive - 10% interest per year! Much better to just get help from those who would like to see a strong and prosperous England who might be in a condition to help others in turn later.
2. Done. He is in charge of every single fight, in fact! He is very much a "lead from the front" sort of guy. Maybe that is why everyone hates him so much? He is desperate to prove that he deserves to be king. Really!
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 10:44:38 AM
1. Taking loans are much too expensive - 10% interest per year! Much better to just get help from those who would like to see a strong and prosperous England who might be in a condition to help others in turn later.
2. Done. He is in charge of every single fight, in fact! He is very much a "lead from the front" sort of guy. Maybe that is why everyone hates him so much? He is desperate to prove that he deserves to be king. Really!
1. Hire a few bankers, they reduce interest. Get 10 stars worth of bankers and you have free loans.
2. Kings don't die in battle like other generals. Just the mere fact of being a general kills your monarch quicker. Another option is changing to some for of republic.
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 10:51:07 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 10:44:38 AM
1. Taking loans are much too expensive - 10% interest per year! Much better to just get help from those who would like to see a strong and prosperous England who might be in a condition to help others in turn later.
2. Done. He is in charge of every single fight, in fact! He is very much a "lead from the front" sort of guy. Maybe that is why everyone hates him so much? He is desperate to prove that he deserves to be king. Really!
1. Hire a few bankers, they reduce interest. Get 10 stars worth of bankers and you have free loans.
Funny, you never get the advisers you need. When I started that game, I needed 1 single colonial advisor, none to be found. Now I could use a stability guy - none to be had, but I can get as many 20% (even a 5 or 6 star guy) colonial range guys as I like. Theologian so I can pass Superintendents? Nope, nary a one...
Quote
2. Kings don't die in battle like other generals. Just the mere fact of being a general kills your monarch quicker. Another option is changing to some for of republic.
How disappointing. I've been working hard to make sure he is in charge of every fight, figured there was some random chance per fight. Too bad.
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 10:59:51 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 10:51:07 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 10:44:38 AM
1. Taking loans are much too expensive - 10% interest per year! Much better to just get help from those who would like to see a strong and prosperous England who might be in a condition to help others in turn later.
2. Done. He is in charge of every single fight, in fact! He is very much a "lead from the front" sort of guy. Maybe that is why everyone hates him so much? He is desperate to prove that he deserves to be king. Really!
1. Hire a few bankers, they reduce interest. Get 10 stars worth of bankers and you have free loans.
Funny, you never get the advisers you need. When I started that game, I needed 1 single colonial advisor, none to be found. Now I could use a stability guy - none to be had, but I can get as many 20% (even a 5 or 6 star guy) colonial range guys as I like. Theologian so I can pass Superintendents? Nope, nary a one...
Quote
2. Kings don't die in battle like other generals. Just the mere fact of being a general kills your monarch quicker. Another option is changing to some for of republic.
How disappointing. I've been working hard to make sure he is in charge of every fight, figured there was some random chance per fight. Too bad.
Get your cultural tradition up and hire the advisers you want. I picked all three of my advisers and they are 5 or 6 stars all three of them. Patron of the Arts FTW!
BTW, I can create some bankers for you, unlike most of the other players in this game I want a strong England. I don't have any naval tradition, but I have lots of cultural and a bit of military tradition.
No wonder Austria is the 800lb gorilla of EU3. They just get to do whatever they want.
Advisers? I just hire all the 5 star advisers I need!
Quote from: Berkut on March 12, 2010, 11:18:21 AM
No wonder Austria is the 800lb gorilla of EU3. They just get to do whatever they want.
Advisers? I just hire all the 5 star advisers I need!
Well, you can change idea to Patron of the Arts and Hire. Which idea would you give up for PotA?
BTW, I thought Francis I of France had the Patron of the Arts Card? And Why can't I teleport my armies?
Indeed, Viking is giving up an NI slot to get all those lovely advisers--a tough cost, but it's a good one.
Meanwhile, the Ottomans merely rely on their natural cultural dominance through Diwani Script.
Can we get some images and info, or at least a copy of the save file?
Quote from: Habbaku on March 12, 2010, 11:30:47 AM
Indeed, Viking is giving up an NI slot to get all those lovely advisers--a tough cost, but it's a good one.
Meanwhile, the Ottomans merely rely on their natural cultural dominance through Diwani Script.
I just get the "Hapsburg Dominance" +3 to ruler diplomacy.
What images would you like?
It's not possible to post the file to the forum--too large.
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 10:51:07 AM
2. Kings don't die in battle like other generals. Just the mere fact of being a general kills your monarch quicker. Another option is changing to some for of republic.
Is that another recent change? I'm pretty sure they can die in a battle, and give you a -1 stab hit when it happens. I've had that happen. You know you've got a shitty king when you're happy to take a stab hit just to get rid of him.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 12, 2010, 11:36:19 AM
What images would you like?
It's not possible to post the file to the forum--too large.
http://www.mediafire.com/
Found this old fossil
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg119.imageshack.us%2Fimg119%2F300%2Flolcatke9.jpg&hash=80b37bf1e7ca886fcfe02ffe35910eabd2fd7991)
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmmit5nke4z
I played on for a bit as well as austria.
I obviously made the wrong choice in the Religious turmoil event. I need to convert EVERYTHING to turn it off.
religious_turmoil + religious_intolerance + excommunication is not fun.
That settles it, youse colonizers and and eastern land grabbers will be left alone by me. I'll be off having to either convert or get rid of protestant provinces... as well as dropping my badboy
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 10:43:47 PM
I obviously made the wrong choice in the Religious turmoil event. I need to convert EVERYTHING to turn it off.
Not everything. But < 10% non-your-religion, IIRC. To do it right, you need to just barely trigger the religious turmoil event and then immediately convert back. If you do it right, you can be in and out of religious turmoil in < 1 year.
Quote from: ulmont on March 12, 2010, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 10:43:47 PM
I obviously made the wrong choice in the Religious turmoil event. I need to convert EVERYTHING to turn it off.
Not everything. But < 10% non-your-religion, IIRC. To do it right, you need to just barely trigger the religious turmoil event and then immediately convert back. If you do it right, you can be in and out of religious turmoil in < 1 year.
Details plz?
Quote from: Viking on March 12, 2010, 11:01:01 PM
Details plz?
You're fucked now, is what I'm saying, but if you plan for religious turmoil you can do it easily.
The only event that clears religious turmoil is 2038 in religiouswars.txt.
It will fire if you (catholic) have less than 10% of your provinces protestant and less than 10% of your provinces reformed. When you get there, it fires in 2 months.
I got Ecumenicism too late, I thought that turned it off.. but I didn't read the events well enough.
Or If I get force converted... the really evil thing is that since I have ecumencism the pope hates me and I'm excommunicated
so..
religious turmoil tolerance -2/-2 plus global revolt risk 3 (+5 RR)
religious intolerance global revolt risk 2 (+2 RR)
excommunication tolerance catholic -3 (+3 RR)
that is a continual +10% revolt risk. This is not funny.
It seems that Sweden, England and Austria suffer from the intolerant kind, Katmai has the tolerant kind.
I did the edict of Nantes fit express reason of tolerance of the prottys for time being.
Quote from: katmai on March 13, 2010, 12:21:47 AM
I did the edict of Nantes fit express reason of tolerance of the prottys for time being.
Just say no.
Who says England and Sweden can be the only Protestant countries?
You're all going to be Muslim eventually, so it doesn't really matter.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 13, 2010, 02:21:31 AM
You're all going to be Muslim eventually, so it doesn't really matter.
That's the 21st century, outside the scope of our game.
Got the Windows 7, got myself all set up. I love the Easy Transfer thing, that literally shaves at least 10 hours and countless headaches when you install new OS. My check-sum is CYLC. Can someone send me the save file, so that I can get a sneak preview into what I'm getting myself into?
I posted a link upthread that has the save file ready for download. It should still be active.
Quote from: DGuller on March 14, 2010, 10:17:01 PM
Got the Windows 7, got myself all set up. I love the Easy Transfer thing, that literally shaves at least 10 hours and countless headaches when you install new OS. My check-sum is CYLC. Can someone send me the save file, so that I can get a sneak preview into what I'm getting myself into?
Who are you going to be?
Castile.
Got the save, thanks.
:lol:
you two are welcome to try but might be forced to becom best friends with Turks and Russians and swedes.
Quote from: katmai on March 15, 2010, 12:07:36 AM
:lol:
you two are welcome to try but might be forced to becom best friends with Turks and Russians and swedes.
:mad:
already consider us friends.
The Christian world aflame! The Sultan is content with this.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2010, 12:36:05 AM
The Christian world aflame! The Sultan is content with this.
BTW, Ragusa, as a part of Croatia was north of the 1815 line.
Sounds like we are all set for this Wednesday, correct?
DG is going to join us playing Castille, and everyone else should be available as well.
Try to start at 8pm?
Works for me.
Hypothetically, Kleves will be playing Portugal. We'll see.
:shifty:
Quote from: Kleves on March 15, 2010, 06:46:58 PM
:shifty:
Portugal is huge. All of the "confederate" indians are portugese and portugal is bigger than castille in america and has a border with aztecs.
Let's hope it leads to some vicious competition. I suspect the Brits won't be too happy about the Eggplant menace in their sphere of influence.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2010, 08:47:58 PM
Let's hope it leads to some vicious competition. I suspect the Brits won't be too happy about the Eggplant menace in their sphere of influence.
I suspect that the Turk won't like that we have a spanish and portugese player either. I'm pretty sure that only Little Habbaku (free provinces) and Hansy (new enemies for the turk) are 100% happy that we have castille and portugal in the game. I'm slightly annoyed that I can't take all of Italy now.
But that is probably worth having a spanish navy to cut turkey in half when habbaku does backstab me.
I am not even slightly happy with Portugal no matter who is running them.
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2010, 09:04:14 PM
I am not even slightly happy with Portugal no matter who is running them.
The AI seemed to do pretty well... if you had been running Portugal, based on your performance as england, you wouldn't have done as well.
Quote from: Viking on March 15, 2010, 09:08:03 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2010, 09:04:14 PM
I am not even slightly happy with Portugal no matter who is running them.
The AI seemed to do pretty well... if you had been running Portugal, based on your performance as england, you wouldn't have done as well.
That isn't a very nice thing to say. My problems with England have been entirely out of my control. It is all bad luck, I tell you!
:lol: Yes, I'm sure Spain will be utterly content to do Austria's bidding rather than let us settle a hypothetical backstab amongst ourselves.
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2010, 09:13:31 PM
That isn't a very nice thing to say. My problems with England have been entirely out of my control. It is all bad luck, I tell you!
You offered me the royal marriage, not the other way round :contract:
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2010, 09:14:24 PM
:lol: Yes, I'm sure Spain will be utterly content to do Austria's bidding rather than let us settle a hypothetical backstab amongst ourselves.
just don't emoragequit when he does, ok?
Quote from: Viking on March 15, 2010, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2010, 09:13:31 PM
That isn't a very nice thing to say. My problems with England have been entirely out of my control. It is all bad luck, I tell you!
You offered me the royal marriage, not the other way round :contract:
...and that had nothing to do with any of the problems England has had in that first session.
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2010, 09:25:44 PM
...and that had nothing to do with any of the problems England has had in that first session.
Well, it was the first step on the way to a Douglas on the Throne :contract:
Quote from: Viking on March 15, 2010, 09:28:05 PM
Well, it was the first step on the way to a Douglas on the Throne :contract:
:huh: No, the death of the Tudors was.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2010, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 15, 2010, 09:28:05 PM
Well, it was the first step on the way to a Douglas on the Throne :contract:
:huh: No, the death of the Tudors was.
Where do the Hapsburgs fit into this?
They don't.
Just for the record, since we're going to have PCs take over for Portugal and Spain, I'm going to edit their inflation down by 5% each before we start.
Complaints about this decision are to be forwarded to CdM.
Sweden demands its regions back from Castile or else Sweden will curl up into a corner and sob uncontrollably.
Quote from: JonasSalk on March 15, 2010, 09:49:45 PM
Sweden demands its regions back from Castile or else Sweden will curl up into a corner and sob uncontrollably.
You need to offer him money... or get those provinces into the hands of defecting rebels.
Given the immense size of Castile's forces in those two provinces, I highly doubt they'll manage to successfully defect.
Sweden will not pay money for provinces ill-gotten. I demand those provinces back, plus Gotland, Denmark, Iceland, and Norway and 200 ducats immediately from the Castilian treasury or else Sweden will cry in aforementioned corner.
Castile owns provinces in Sweden? :huh:
Yes they do...
Quote from: Jaron on March 15, 2010, 10:09:39 PM
Castile owns provinces in Sweden? :huh:
Defender of the Faith.
Quote from: JonasSalk on March 15, 2010, 10:07:44 PM
Given the immense size of Castile's forces in those two provinces, I highly doubt they'll manage to successfully defect.
Sweden will not pay money for provinces ill-gotten. I demand those provinces back, plus Gotland, Denmark, Iceland, and Norway and 200 ducats immediately from the Castilian treasury or else Sweden will cry in aforementioned corner.
You can wait until Castille gets into a war with somebody nasty.. say ... like.. ehh... Aragon? and Withdraws?
Sigh, after envoys have returned from Spain & Austria we can come to only one conclusion. Time to expand the French army and prepare for Austrians who won't be content till all of the continent is under it's imperial control.
BTW, how do I unite with Aragon as Castille? Are there some special missions that would guide me, or do I have to wait for an opportunity to claim their throne and PU them?
Best route to doing it at this point is to simply declare war on them (with or without a CB) and take the provinces you need to form Spain. Keep in mind that it's probably going to prove a lot less Infamy-intensive to force Aragon to release states like Sardinia and Sicily from their domain, else you'll have to take every province they have...Besides, if you do get Sardinia and Sicily released, you should be able to vassalize them quickly, and peacefully, right after the war--buying yourself a few, easy diplo-annexes in ~10 years.
Quote from: DGuller on March 16, 2010, 02:35:20 AM
BTW, how do I unite with Aragon as Castille? Are there some special missions that would guide me, or do I have to wait for an opportunity to claim their throne and PU them?
You need to control Barcelona, Aragon and Valencia and have CB shields on their provinces. You already have a CB on Valencia (the capital) So you can take the first two and then vassalize aragon. Once you have the CB shields (30 or 50 years) then you can diploannex. You should have a submission mission against Aragon.
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2010, 01:50:54 AM
Sigh, after envoys have returned from Spain & Austria we can come to only one conclusion. Time to expand the French army and prepare for Austrians who won't be content till all of the continent is under it's imperial control.
France: :weep: I noticed how big you are in Italy and :unsure: despite the fact that I agreed to let you have what you took :uffda: I want you to compensate me for what you gained :boff: in italy by giving me walloon provinces in belgium.
Austria: Look, :contract: we had an agreement. You have benefited from this agreement :blink: I have not interfered in your unification of France or your Religious wars, I have not used my Imperial Ban CB when I outnumber you two or three to one. I have spent money, time, infamy and effort securing what I have. :pope: :banned: :grr: Now, if you think this agreement is unfair I am willing to discuss it, but let us not start by you demanding I cede Imperial Accepted Culture CB Shielded provinces for no recompense. :bash: :pirate
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2010, 01:50:54 AM
Sigh, after envoys have returned from Spain & Austria we can come to only one conclusion. Time to expand the French army and prepare for Austrians who won't be content till all of the continent is under it's imperial control.
It took this long for you to figure that out?
England weeps for the future of the continent.
Portugal would warn the European powers to keep the peace, lest the Portuguese Army be forced to step in. :contract:
Quote from: Kleves on March 16, 2010, 10:32:00 AM
Portugal would warn the European powers to keep the peace, lest the Portuguese Army be forced to step in. :contract:
Can you really spare both of them at once???
BTW, is anyone else interested in joining our little Wednesday evening love fest?
Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2010, 10:35:24 AM
BTW, is anyone else interested in joining our little Wednesday evening love fest?
Is this the orgy, or the EU3 game that we're talking about, here?
Quote from: Kleves on March 16, 2010, 10:42:19 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2010, 10:35:24 AM
BTW, is anyone else interested in joining our little Wednesday evening love fest?
Is this the orgy, or the EU3 game that we're talking about, here?
Yes.
Austria has already succumbed to too much inbreeding I see.
I sent envoy to discuss the purchase of Walloon provinces and am told I should be grateful you didn't attack me...
So with such deft diplomacy out of Vienna I shall just have to build up the army and start talks with the Russians and Swedes.
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2010, 08:28:27 PM
Austria has already succumbed to too much inbreeding I see.
I sent envoy to discuss the purchase of Walloon provinces and am told I should be grateful you didn't attack me...
So with such deft diplomacy out of Vienna I shall just have to build up the army and start talks with the Russians and Swedes.
viking diplo > slargos diplo?
I think Scandies are just incapable of diplomacy.
:lol:
Is Hans still playing? I don't believe he's posted since last week.
If he's out, I'll take his country! Who is he?
Quote from: Kleves on March 16, 2010, 09:52:01 PM
If he's out, I'll take his country! Who is he?
Russia
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2010, 08:28:27 PM
Austria has already succumbed to too much inbreeding I see.
I sent envoy to discuss the purchase of Walloon provinces and am told I should be grateful you didn't attack me...
So with such deft diplomacy out of Vienna I shall just have to build up the army and start talks with the Russians and Swedes.
In the hopes of clarifying anything misunderstanding that may have arisen and to avoid any mischaracterisations and unfortunate comparisons I feel the need to make some things clear.
1. I did not get Italy "for free", I worked to get it and you agreed to let me have it. In the pre-game diplomacy I opened the topic of Italy, you agreed to let me have all of Italy up to the Savoyard border with France.
2. We agreed with respect to German and French cultures that each side would be free to acquire any own culture provinces that were not already owned at game start that we wanted, including French culture imperial provinces.
This sets a clear differentiation between the spheres of interest for each side in Western Europe. You expressed the feeling that you felt this agreement was too advantageous to me and wanted my Walloon provinces in compensation. I told you that I didn't think I was getting anything for free, that I had kept my end of the deal with respect to not interfering in France and that while I was willing to discuss any issue you might wish to discuss that we don't begin with you suggesting I ceded you 4 Imperial Accepted Culture and CB shielded provinces and that any resolution to the problem be sought elsewhere.
Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2010, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 16, 2010, 08:28:27 PM
Austria has already succumbed to too much inbreeding I see.
I sent envoy to discuss the purchase of Walloon provinces and am told I should be grateful you didn't attack me...
So with such deft diplomacy out of Vienna I shall just have to build up the army and start talks with the Russians and Swedes.
viking diplo > slargos diplo?
I feel insulted to be mentioned in the same breath.
Who has said you were getting Italy for free?
As to savoy, yes I said that was all I had interest in, and wasn't concerned with rest if Italy, but that was foolish of me with thinking of misguided expectations you weren't going to try and swallow whole areas that have no reason to be in your control.
Now if you stop at present borders or as far as the hre provinces reach then maybe I can understand.
Once again with your Walloon areas I was just putting out feelers towards buying them, and was met with hostility, which is your right, but with such responses I wouldn't expect much good will from anyone in Europe.
Quote from: katmai on March 17, 2010, 02:00:33 AM
Who has said you were getting Italy for free?
As to savoy, yes I said that was all I had interest in, and wasn't concerned with rest if Italy, but that was foolish of me with thinking of misguided expectations you weren't going to try and swallow whole areas that have no reason to be in your control.
Now if you stop at present borders or as far as the hre provinces reach then maybe I can understand.
Once again with your Walloon areas I was just putting out feelers towards buying them, and was met with hostility, which is your right, but with such responses I wouldn't expect much good will from anyone in Europe.
I apologize if you felt my response was coloured with hostility, it was not meant to be. Wallonia is not for sale, thank you for inquiring. I sincerely hope your efforts at colonisation and conversion of the natives of Africa and America meet with success.
Funny, my initial pre-game diplo with Austria was much the same.
"I will be taking all these areas, because they are in my sphere of control. These other areas will be mine because I have a shield on them, and these other ones because they are my culture, and these other ones because I want them. Stay out of any of these areas, and please guarantee that your fleet will be ready to assist me at any time I might need it, kthxbye!"
"BTW, I WILL AGREE THAT YOU CAN HAVE SCOTLAND! AREN'T I NICE????"
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2010, 07:46:44 AM
Funny, my initial pre-game diplo with Austria was much the same.
"I will be taking all these areas, because they are in my sphere of control. These other areas will be mine because I have a shield on them, and these other ones because they are my culture, and these other ones because I want them. Stay out of any of these areas, and please guarantee that your fleet will be ready to assist me at any time I might need it, kthxbye!"
"BTW, I WILL AGREE THAT YOU CAN HAVE SCOTLAND! AREN'T I NICE????"
I call BS, I never agreed that you could have scotland :contract:
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2010, 07:46:44 AM
Funny, my initial pre-game diplo with Austria was much the same.
"I will be taking all these areas, because they are in my sphere of control. These other areas will be mine because I have a shield on them, and these other ones because they are my culture, and these other ones because I want them. Stay out of any of these areas, and please guarantee that your fleet will be ready to assist me at any time I might need it, kthxbye!"
"BTW, I WILL AGREE THAT YOU CAN HAVE SCOTLAND! AREN'T I NICE????"
Just because he offered you a one-sided deal with little upside doesn't mean that you shouldn't take it. Or does it? I'm not good at this diplomacy shit.
Quote from: DGuller on March 17, 2010, 08:30:34 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2010, 07:46:44 AM
Funny, my initial pre-game diplo with Austria was much the same.
"I will be taking all these areas, because they are in my sphere of control. These other areas will be mine because I have a shield on them, and these other ones because they are my culture, and these other ones because I want them. Stay out of any of these areas, and please guarantee that your fleet will be ready to assist me at any time I might need it, kthxbye!"
"BTW, I WILL AGREE THAT YOU CAN HAVE SCOTLAND! AREN'T I NICE????"
Just because he offered you a one-sided deal with little upside doesn't mean that you shouldn't take it. Or does it? I'm not good at this diplomacy shit.
My declaration was to insists that he keep out of the empire and telling him I would not give him any of my provinces on the grounds that I owned them, had culture and cb shields, just like he has in england, then I offered to guarantee an austrian army vs france if he guaranteed an english one, response?, lets think about it when the time comes. Then I offered to not build any ships if he guaranteed that he would clear the danish sound if I needed it, response?, No and if you build any ships I won't take it kindly.
Quote from: Viking on March 17, 2010, 10:08:00 AM
Then I offered to not build any ships if he guaranteed that he would clear the danish sound if I needed it, response?
:lol: What a deal!
Quote from: Habbaku on March 17, 2010, 10:23:02 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 17, 2010, 10:08:00 AM
Then I offered to not build any ships if he guaranteed that he would clear the danish sound if I needed it, response?
:lol: What a deal!
Indeed, viking is chock full of awesome bargains at low low prices!
Did he also offer not to colonize central Siberia?
Not only my Austria expanded more subtly, but it looks like my diplomacy was way better. :P
I suggested, you said no. Fair enough. I thought it achieved objectives for both of us. Berkut said no, so I have to build a fleet to be able to do certain things.
I'm not giving stuff away. It's Berkut and Katmai who seem to think that the ownership of my at start, accepted culture and cb shield provinces are up for debate and seem insulted when I disagree.
Anyways, I'm not the one who started publishing misrepresentations of the content of the diplomatic pouch.
Not insulted at all. You can certainly demand that you have some kind of "right" to every single province in Europe, one way or another. I don't find it even a little bit insulting.
Quote from: Berkut on March 17, 2010, 02:30:13 PM
Not insulted at all. You can certainly demand that you have some kind of "right" to every single province in Europe, one way or another. I don't find it even a little bit insulting.
Hmmm... how does one say Pankrator in German?
Der Herr des All?
Quote from: Viking on March 17, 2010, 02:26:24 PM
I'm not giving stuff away. It's Berkut and Katmai who seem to think that the ownership of my at start, accepted culture and cb shield provinces are up for debate and seem insulted when I disagree.
Anyways, I'm not the one who started publishing misrepresentations of the content of the diplomatic pouch.
see i thought we had come to agreement after last post last night, and then you bring out whoppers like this.
Quote from: katmai on March 17, 2010, 02:39:00 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 17, 2010, 02:26:24 PM
I'm not giving stuff away. It's Berkut and Katmai who seem to think that the ownership of my at start, accepted culture and cb shield provinces are up for debate and seem insulted when I disagree.
Anyways, I'm not the one who started publishing misrepresentations of the content of the diplomatic pouch.
see i thought we had come to agreement after last post last night, and then you bring out whippers like this.
We did and I stick to my agreements.
Quote from: katmai on March 17, 2010, 02:39:00 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 17, 2010, 02:26:24 PM
I'm not giving stuff away. It's Berkut and Katmai who seem to think that the ownership of my at start, accepted culture and cb shield provinces are up for debate and seem insulted when I disagree.
Anyways, I'm not the one who started publishing misrepresentations of the content of the diplomatic pouch.
see i thought we had come to agreement after last post last night, and then you bring out whippers like this.
Indeed - I thought we were going to be all friends and stuff, but he is extremely hostile for some reason.
This is the point where the adviser suggests that his highness might refrain from too vigorously defending his honour.
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2010, 11:58:12 AM
Sounds like we are all set for this Wednesday, correct?
DG is going to join us playing Castille, and everyone else should be available as well.
Try to start at 8pm?
More realistically, everyone should probably expect to start at 8:30 again this week. Kleves will be late, there's no sign of Hans, and my brother probably won't make it home until 8:15.
I see hansy on steam
What do I need to connected to the game? I've got Hamachi, do I need to do something in Steam?
Well we normally use steam chat if a crash rehost. So I'd expect habbu to send you s group invite once we know your steam name.
My steam name is dguller2000. Do I need Steam to start the game, or is it strictly for chat?
Just for chat DG.
Technically, we can eschew using Steam if we want to. Hamachi's chat function works just fine.
Soon as DG accepts the Steam invite, I can give him the Hamachi stuff.
Where are the Steam invites? I saw the popups saying something about Languish, but I don't see the group.
They'll be on your SteamID page.
Got it.
Sorry guys, my daughter has a stomach flu and has been sucking up all my time.
In a rather uneventful session from 1528 to 1564 not much happened, that austria could see. Apart from DGuller raping portugal and aragon, Habbaku doing more anal rape of the mameluks, katmai inhereting brittany, berkut diploannexing scotland, me adding more provinces and vassals in the HRE as well as passing two more reforms and sweden getting the spanish provinces sold, taking most of norway, but unfortunately losing finland to a revolt.
The Hapsburgs had miserlly monarchs (usually with at least two 3s and 4s as stats), but we got ourselves out of Religious turmoil. Provinces added Luneburg, Lubeck, Wurtemburg, Konstanz, Illyria and Treviso. Badboy now back at near zero.
Anyone got a full word map handy?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2FEU3_MAP_TUR_1564125_1.jpg&hash=7afa0095e1e2739c3d0dc9bc76e10be54fd36c7e)
And for good measure... :
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1564econ.jpg&hash=2cd83b7345b9726cd3763db3a08e6298676ca188)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1564armies.jpg&hash=153953701c8817a770febf3104f26be5b4e6349b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1564navies.jpg&hash=b9a638517e38c715647a4587c944ff7de5f88437)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1564tech.jpg&hash=3eaa1a84614fa1876e04e9204a28ccb8b5b4819f)
:)
A much better session than the first for England.
Still a bit of a mess though - have a regency council, with an incredibly weak heir when it is over, with a weak claim.
A nice war with Portugal - I only grabbed a couple provinces from them, since I had no conquest CB and could not afford the infamy hit to take more, but the war itself pretty much threw their NA empire into turmoil, and they ended up losing several others back to the Injuns.
Scotland was finally annexed, so we should see GB in just another 50 years or so once I get a core.
I am a whore for missions. Whats that, you want me to colonize some god forsaken frozen tundra that is utterly useless! No problem, I am on it! :bleeding:
We all need to gang up on the Ming. They are running away with the game.
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 07:35:41 AM
A much better session than the first for England.
Still a bit of a mess though - have a regency council, with an incredibly weak heir when it is over, with a weak claim.
A nice war with Portugal - I only grabbed a couple provinces from them, since I had no conquest CB and could not afford the infamy hit to take more, but the war itself pretty much threw their NA empire into turmoil, and they ended up losing several others back to the Injuns.
Scotland was finally annexed, so we should see GB in just another 50 years or so once I get a core.
I am a whore for missions. Whats that, you want me to colonize some god forsaken frozen tundra that is utterly useless! No problem, I am on it! :bleeding:
So that's why you were colonizing random spots in Canada. I thought you were trying to get to Barrister's Yukon.
Sweden has an impressive amount of infamy.
So, how do I increase my legit, other than by not banging the kitchen maids?
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 09:54:47 AM
Sweden has an impressive amount of infamy.
So, how do I increase my legit, other than by not banging the kitchen maids?
Accept Hapsburg Brides :contract: :menace:
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 09:54:47 AM
Sweden has an impressive amount of infamy.
So, how do I increase my legit, other than by not banging the kitchen maids?
Spend culture for a grand marshal would be the best bet in SP. I assume the same holds true for MP.
And Ming's tech sucks, especially after about 1600. Since I assume none of you are playing them they can be easily crushed and forced to release Wu, Xia and Qin. I do that every single player game... :menace:
Cultural tradition is broken in the latest patch. They took away cultural tradition for the placed merchants, but replaced it with nothing in return. As a result, most countries get a pittance without a NI. Castille currently has 1.5%, for example.
Yeah, my CT is usually around 10% or something.
I have the NI and I have lots, usually between 80 and 100.
The PA NI is typically seen as somewhat weak, but seeing viking with his 3 5 star advisers at all times makes me wonder if that is really the case.
Whatever it actually says is the effect, it seems like the real effect is:
"You get your choice of any 4/5 star adviser anytime you like".
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 10:35:08 AM
The PA NI is typically seen as somewhat weak, but seeing viking with his 3 5 star advisers at all times makes me wonder if that is really the case.
Whatever it actually says is the effect, it seems like the real effect is:
"You get your choice of any 5/6 star adviser anytime you like".
There, fixed your post for you.
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 10:35:08 AM
The PA NI is typically seen as somewhat weak, but seeing viking with his 3 5 star advisers at all times makes me wonder if that is really the case.
Whatever it actually says is the effect, it seems like the real effect is:
"You get your choice of any 4/5 star adviser anytime you like".
Or even 6 star.
Moreover, once you can build roads, it does not take long for a large nation to start being able to use magistrates to create culture, or is that broken to in the latest patch?
Quote from: Agelastus on March 18, 2010, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 10:35:08 AM
The PA NI is typically seen as somewhat weak, but seeing viking with his 3 5 star advisers at all times makes me wonder if that is really the case.
Whatever it actually says is the effect, it seems like the real effect is:
"You get your choice of any 4/5 star adviser anytime you like".
Or even 6 star.
Moreover, once you can build roads, it does not take long for a large nation to start being able to use magistrates to create culture, or is that broken to in the latest patch?
No that works, it take a while though.
Quote from: Agelastus on March 18, 2010, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 10:35:08 AM
The PA NI is typically seen as somewhat weak, but seeing viking with his 3 5 star advisers at all times makes me wonder if that is really the case.
Whatever it actually says is the effect, it seems like the real effect is:
"You get your choice of any 4/5 star adviser anytime you like".
Or even 6 star.
Moreover, once you can build roads, it does not take long for a large nation to start being able to use magistrates to create culture, or is that broken to in the latest patch?
I'm earning 2.5 per year and I have no hope in hell keeping up with my provincial decisions. 1 for provincial court, 2 for land reform, 2 for festivals, 2 for enclosures ect. Basically for a large empire ALL magistrates will go to provincial decisions, unless you choose to find spend 10 magistrates and 50 prestige or 20 magistrates on getting a 5* great man.
Better to buy 3 Fine arts academies and ditch the idea... oh, yes, that is just what I am about to do.
How do magistrates create culture, even with roads?
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
How do magistrates create culture, even with roads?
There are cultural decisions that give you 5% culture for one magistrate or 10% for one magistrate and 5% prestige.
Quote from: Viking on March 18, 2010, 10:25:15 AM
I have the NI and I have lots, usually between 80 and 100.
You also have a HRE bonus from one of the early reforms, which IIRC is pretty substantial.
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
How do magistrates create culture, even with roads?
Roads produce magistrates, magistrates can be spent on cultural goals, such as paintings that provide culture.
And who the hell creates provincial festivals anyway? They are a complete negative since you do not need the additional revolt risk reduction. Past about 1650-1700 at the absolute latest, a large Empire should have magistrates to burn, and it sometimes makes sense to use them for culture even earlier.
Quote from: Agelastus on March 18, 2010, 11:17:51 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
How do magistrates create culture, even with roads?
Roads produce magistrates, magistrates can be spent on cultural goals, such as paintings that provide culture.
And who the hell creates provincial festivals anyway? They are a complete negative since you do not need the additional revolt risk reduction. Past about 1650-1700 at the absolute latest, a large Empire should have magistrates to burn, and it sometimes makes sense to use them for culture even earlier.
-6% RR permits alot more WE.
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 10:35:08 AM
The PA NI is typically seen as somewhat weak, but seeing viking with his 3 5 star advisers at all times makes me wonder if that is really the case.
I think it's only considered weak because placed merchants used to give culture bonuses. Now that that's no longer the case (per the most recent beta patch), the idea is great to have in the early game, before fine arts academies are buildable.
Hmm, so after all his whining and bellyaching, it turns out that Berkut's supposedly feeble England has more income than Castille.
Quote from: DGuller on March 18, 2010, 11:43:19 AM
Hmm, so after all his whining and bellyaching, it turns out that Berkut's supposedly feeble England has more income than Castille.
Not for lack of trying to accomplish the opposite...
Quote from: DGuller on March 18, 2010, 11:43:19 AM
Hmm, so after all his whining and bellyaching, it turns out that Berkut's supposedly feeble England has more income than Castille.
Most of my success was due to hanging onto your coattails in that war against Portugal. That was sweet - you have my thanks. Siezed a colony, took two more provinces in the peace, couple hundred gold, and more importantly, the Portugese North American empire is a shambles now.
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 09:54:47 AM
Sweden has an impressive amount of infamy.
So, how do I increase my legit, other than by not banging the kitchen maids?
Once you have a heir and a spare you can bang the kitchen maids as much as you want.
Quote from: Viking on March 18, 2010, 12:10:01 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 09:54:47 AM
Sweden has an impressive amount of infamy.
So, how do I increase my legit, other than by not banging the kitchen maids?
Once you have a heir and a spare you can bang the kitchen maids as much as you want.
Sadly I had neither heir or spare at the time...
I actually had an old king, no heir, and one of those "Hey, check out this hottie..." events popped up. The choice 'result' was "Gain a legal heir" and lose some presige or something. So I was all "Sweet, an heir finally!" and got a 333 or something like that, who was weak.
I guess perhaps that was the right choice anyway, since the king then died, leaving a Regency Council, which is, I guess, better than nothing.
Do you hire mentally retarded kitchen maids or something?
Quote from: DGuller on March 18, 2010, 12:29:37 PM
Do you hire mentally retarded kitchen maids or something?
Hello? Kitchen maid!
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 18, 2010, 12:10:01 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 18, 2010, 09:54:47 AM
Sweden has an impressive amount of infamy.
So, how do I increase my legit, other than by not banging the kitchen maids?
Once you have a heir and a spare you can bang the kitchen maids as much as you want.
Sadly I had neither heir or spare at the time...
I actually had an old king, no heir, and one of those "Hey, check out this hottie..." events popped up. The choice 'result' was "Gain a legal heir" and lose some presige or something. So I was all "Sweet, an heir finally!" and got a 333 or something like that, who was weak.
I guess perhaps that was the right choice anyway, since the king then died, leaving a Regency Council, which is, I guess, better than nothing.
I usually play WWM, and in a previous patch they had the problem that the player country regency council never ended. So eventually the heir died with a regency council. Now, at that point the game continues with a regency council and no heir until some likely local noble seized the throne. Those local nobles were always of exceptional quality.
I had Sweden's amount of infamy in 1515. My three 5* and 6* Diplomats got rid of that within a few decades.
Quote from: Viking on March 18, 2010, 11:03:54 AM
I'm earning 2.5 per year and I have no hope in hell keeping up with my provincial decisions. 1 for provincial court, 2 for land reform, 2 for festivals, 2 for enclosures ect. Basically for a large empire ALL magistrates will go to provincial decisions, unless you choose to find spend 10 magistrates and 50 prestige or 20 magistrates on getting a 5* great man.
Does anyone actually use the festivals? I thought they were about as crappy as "Establish March".
Quote from: Solmyr on March 18, 2010, 12:58:24 PM
Does anyone actually use the festivals? I thought they were about as crappy as "Establish March".
I've never once used them. Maybe late game, when you have magistrates galore...
Establish march is evil -1 centralisation. There are mods out there that hide that decision.
Provincial festivals give -6% RR and -5% taxes. Combine that with land enclosures (+10% tax 1% RR) and you have plus 5% income and -5% RR. The combination is worthwhile. But costs 4 magistrates.
Ive been enclosing land like a Mofo.
I've been promoting cultural unity like a mofo. Can't make me release a country that can't exist.
Mighty Sweden will soon rise with a glorious navy to take over all of Scandinavia. Shortly thereafter, there will be decades upon decades upon decades of reductions of infamy and taming of revolts while converting the populace to Protestantism.
Lo, and it is nigh.
Land enclosure isn't available everywhere though, and you also need an adm 6 monarch, and those don't grow on trees.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 18, 2010, 03:27:58 PM
Land enclosure isn't available everywhere though, and you also need an adm 6 monarch, and those don't grow on trees.
Pesky that, I haven't had any of those yet. My present one is 4.4.3.
So, in Hans still in the game? I'd like to continue with Russia, but I would hate to take Hans' spot because he was taking care of his sick daughter.
Quote from: Kleves on March 22, 2010, 04:31:01 PM
So, in Hans still in the game? I'd like to continue with Russia, but I would hate to take Hans' spot because he was taking care of his sick daughter.
That does kind of suck, I hope everything is ok with her.
You can always go back to playing Portugal. I think administering Portugal became a lot less complicated since your last term.
Quote from: DGuller on March 22, 2010, 04:34:11 PM
You can always go back to playing Portugal. I think administering Portugal became a lot less complicated since your last term.
Yeah, that may very well be true...
Hungary will also be playable for about 20 more years.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 22, 2010, 04:41:12 PM
Hungary will also be playable for about 20 more years.
I vehemently refute your insinuation that I might be adding all of hungary to my lands. My monarch is 4.4.3 and from time to time the idiot gets out of the hands of the staff and sends diplomatic letters. We are working on the problem, he is serving in the field along with his other cousin Uriah von Hapsburg.
I declined to take Croatia despite the CB due to the value of not having a border, your logic was impeccable.
If you, however, have desires on Hungary, suggested by your annexation of a further province on my side of the 1815 line, you will feel my wrath.
Maybe he meant he will occupy it?
Quote from: katmai on March 22, 2010, 07:03:25 PM
Maybe he meant he will occupy it?
Ottoman Imperialism strikes again?
Quote from: Berkut on March 22, 2010, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Kleves on March 22, 2010, 04:31:01 PM
So, in Hans still in the game? I'd like to continue with Russia, but I would hate to take Hans' spot because he was taking care of his sick daughter.
That does kind of suck, I hope everything is ok with her.
She is mostly recovered now, she had pneumonia and was in the hospital until last night. If kleves wants to continue playing Russia that would be ok, if there was another country I could play instead.
I don't believe Hansie till I get a written doctors note. :P
well if willing to still play I think ai controlled countries around ATM are a reduced Portugal, Hungary and well all I can think off top of my head.
No Italian minors are looking that robust, same with German minors.
Quote from: katmai on March 22, 2010, 09:21:36 PM
well if willing to still play I think ai controlled countries around ATM are a reduced Portugal, Hungary and well all I can think off top of my head.
How's Ming or an Indian country looking?
Quote from: ulmont on March 22, 2010, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: katmai on March 22, 2010, 09:21:36 PM
well if willing to still play I think ai controlled countries around ATM are a reduced Portugal, Hungary and well all I can think off top of my head.
How's Ming or an Indian country looking?
Hmmm no idea to my knowledge they haven't really even been explored by europe last I looked.
Quote from: katmai on March 22, 2010, 09:28:40 PM
Quote from: ulmont on March 22, 2010, 09:24:01 PM
How's Ming or an Indian country looking?
Hmmm no idea to my knowledge they haven't really even been explored by europe last I looked.
If Ming's held together well, or an Indian country has done a reasonably good job of consolidation, then with a few judicious slider edits - mostly to put westernization within reasonable reach - then that might be a reasonable player slot. Not for the faint of heart, though.
If anyone needs a sub Wednesday or there's an open country that could prove amusing I can probably hop in. Spring break for me and I get home Wednesday morning.
Quote from: katmai on March 22, 2010, 09:21:36 PM
I don't believe Hansie till I get a written doctors note. :P
well if willing to still play I think ai controlled countries around ATM are a reduced Portugal, Hungary and well all I can think off top of my head.
No Italian minors are looking that robust, same with German minors.
Screw that, I want to hear him explain why government single player health care is good enough for him to not good enough for the rest of america.
Though I do hope his daughter is feeling better soon and the Hansy family can, again, sleep through the night.
I thought Hans has complained about his healthcare.
Take the healthcare discussion back to OT.
Well, Hans, if you want Russia back, you can have it. Let me know if you want it.
I sent him a PM as well.
For the moment, I think we should assume that Kleves is playing Russia, as Hansy still looks to be pretty hit and miss. He is certainly welcome to drop in when he can make it and pick up pretty much any country he likes to play.
Actually, that pretty much goes for nearly anyone who would like to get their feet wet playing EU3 MP. The nice thing is that you can always just play a country for a session if you want to give it a try. Can't guarantee the country won't be a mess of course, but hey, it is probably still a lot of fun.
If we don't hear from Hans in the next few hours, I am going to assume that I will be playing Russia. It is important that we work this out fairly quickly, since I will have to get off work early tomorrow if I am going to make the start of the game (which isn't a problem, unless it turns out I'm not playing).
Well, I've asked for the time off, so hopefully there will be somewhere for me to play.
I'll be playing tomorrow, but I'm flexible as to which country if Kleves got too attached.
The decision of who's playing what, I will leave between Hans and Kleves to sort out. I will, however, note that the following countries are eminently playable, should we end up having to switch someone around :
Portugal : They are reduced, to be sure, but they still have colonies--albeit in revolt--and their situation is not irrecoverable, provided they make friends with Spain for at least the next session. They will, however, be spending some time recovering.
Hungary : Respectably sized and with a sizable economy, but also sandwiched in between two far-stronger powers. They are, however, currently allied with France, which could shield them from the worst.
Venice : Reduced, as Portugal, but with room to expand into the Italian states that haven't been grabbed up and they still have plenty of cash on hand--not to mention that neither Austria nor the Turks are content with the other gobbling them up at the moment, so they'd be safe.
Urbino : Another Italian state, albeit one with only two provinces. They are, however, well-positioned to expand and declare the Kingdom of Italy, allowing them quite a bit of room for growth, especially if allied with France or Austria.
Khorasan : Easily the most powerful Muslim state, aside from the Turks. They are rich, strong and well-positioned to form the Mughal Empire after but a few Holy Wars with the Hindus that currently own the necessary provinces. If those provinces are taken, this could easily become a force to reckon with, especially since the Mughals get plenty of Indian cores--something that will get them in conflict with Europe in a matter of years when the colonials start to pour that way.
Viyanangar : A reasonably-strong and unified India state, currently holding all of the southern part of the sub-continent and relatively well-positioned to expand, once they stabilize. Of course, they are in the Indian tech group, which is rough at the best of times, but they can get a border with Muslims and bring themselves up.
Brandenburg : Probably the least playable of the group, since they're Austria's vassal at the moment, but if they break free of that, then they could definitely expand to form Prussia, which could transition to a force to be reckoned with in the 1600s, once they get their military reforms.
What kind of moron allied with Hungary? Oh me that's who.
Oh habbu, does that list who alci if so inclined to pop in for one session can play?
Of course his selection would have to be after whomever doesn't play Russia
Quote from: katmai on March 23, 2010, 10:39:37 PM
Oh habbu, does that list who alci if so inclined to pop in for one session can play?
Of course his selection would have to be after whomever doesn't play Russia
Nah, I forgot to take that into account. If Alci plays and neither Kleves nor Hans want to play them, I really encourage him to play Khorasan. A Persian-power-turned-Mughal Empire would be incredibly amusing to watch...and given that they're probably soon to border me, they can easily westernize should the opportunity and monarch present themselves.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 23, 2010, 10:25:51 PM
The decision of who's playing what, I will leave between Hans and Kleves to sort out. I will, however, note that the following countries are eminently playable, should we end up having to switch someone around :
Portugal : They are reduced, to be sure, but they still have colonies--albeit in revolt--and their situation is not irrecoverable, provided they make friends with Spain for at least the next session. They will, however, be spending some time recovering.
England took their colonies and Castille took their provinces. Don't.
Quote
Hungary : Respectably sized and with a sizable economy, but also sandwiched in between two far-stronger powers. They are, however, currently allied with France, which could shield them from the worst.
France WTF? I just Guaranteed them. Hungary has taken bits from Poland.
Quote
Venice : Reduced, as Portugal, but with room to expand into the Italian states that haven't been grabbed up and they still have plenty of cash on hand--not to mention that neither Austria nor the Turks are content with the other gobbling them up at the moment, so they'd be safe.
Venice, Istria, Croatia and Corfu. That is Venice.
Quote
Urbino : Another Italian state, albeit one with only two provinces. They are, however, well-positioned to expand and declare the Kingdom of Italy, allowing them quite a bit of room for growth, especially if allied with France or Austria.
OPM.
Quote
Khorasan : Easily the most powerful Muslim state, aside from the Turks. They are rich, strong and well-positioned to form the Mughal Empire after but a few Holy Wars with the Hindus that currently own the necessary provinces. If those provinces are taken, this could easily become a force to reckon with, especially since the Mughals get plenty of Indian cores--something that will get them in conflict with Europe in a matter of years when the colonials start to pour that way.
At war with the Ottomans right now. Controls most of Persia. This one might work.
Quote
Viyanangar : A reasonably-strong and unified India state, currently holding all of the southern part of the sub-continent and relatively well-positioned to expand, once they stabilize. Of course, they are in the Indian tech group, which is rough at the best of times, but they can get a border with Muslims and bring themselves up.
Agreed.
Quote
Brandenburg : Probably the least playable of the group, since they're Austria's vassal at the moment, but if they break free of that, then they could definitely expand to form Prussia, which could transition to a force to be reckoned with in the 1600s, once they get their military reforms.
3PM, Austrian Vassal. If you take Brandenburg vassaldom or death are your only two offers. Any slacking in wars means death.
Other possibilities include Denmark, Lithuania, Al-Djazir, Ming and Japan.
Quote from: Viking on March 24, 2010, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 23, 2010, 10:25:51 PM
Urbino : Another Italian state, albeit one with only two provinces. They are, however, well-positioned to expand and declare the Kingdom of Italy, allowing them quite a bit of room for growth, especially if allied with France or Austria.
OPM.
You can't count.
You guaranteeded them but I'm allied so :blurgh:
As if Austria's guarantee on them actually means anything.
Khorasan, while at war with me, doesn't currently have a border with me and peace will ensue as soon as Oman is dealt with.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 24, 2010, 12:43:59 AM
As if Austria's guarantee on them actually means anything.
Khorasan, while at war with me, doesn't currently have a border with me and peace will ensue as soon as Oman is dealt with.
Come and find out.
Fight!,fight!,fight!
Quote from: katmai on March 24, 2010, 12:53:04 AM
Fight!,fight!,fight!
It's bad enough that he has already crossed the line between our agreed spheres of influence twice.
Hungary: stearing up shit since time immemorial? :D
Quote from: Viking on March 24, 2010, 01:09:31 AM
Quote from: katmai on March 24, 2010, 12:53:04 AM
Fight!,fight!,fight!
It's bad enough that he has already crossed the line between our agreed spheres of influence twice.
Can't we all just get along?
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 23, 2010, 08:10:18 PM
I'll be playing tomorrow, but I'm flexible as to which country if Kleves got too attached.
Well, I'll take Russia then. :P
What do you guys think about using a Vent server for commo during the game?
I think I could do without Viking's heavy breathing and lack of English-speaking, but otherwise I'm fine with it.
Not a fan of VoIP stuff. Text is almost always the more efficient way to communicate over the Internet.
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Not a fan of VoIP stuff. Text is almost always the more efficient way to communicate over the Internet.
How can typing with your fingers be "more efficient" than speaking and hearing?
Text fucking sucks as a way of communicating within any game. My fingers are busy doing other things.
I freaking hate having to try to keep an eye on the damn chat window, or trying to make any kind of deal in real time via typing, and managing who you are sending the message to, and all that.
It would be so much easier to just use voice chat.
Quote from: Berkut on March 24, 2010, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Not a fan of VoIP stuff. Text is almost always the more efficient way to communicate over the Internet.
How can typing with your fingers be "more efficient" than speaking and hearing?
Text fucking sucks as a way of communicating within any game. My fingers are busy doing other things.
It's much faster, and you can take your time reading it instead of having one go at comprehending what was said. That goes double for EU games, because you don't actually need the keyboard for controlling anything.
You need more than one go to comprehend spoken words?
And you can type faster than you can talk? Or read faster than you can hear?
And no, in EU3, you CANNOT take your time reading anything, because it scrolls off the chat window very quickly. I don't see half of the stuff that gets blabbed about.
There is a reason people who game in any kid of semi-serious manner use voice communications. Your mouth and ears are not doing anything while gaming otherwise, and your hands most certainly are. Kleves is apparently doing some other things that don't really help with communication or game playing, but I think we all suspected that...
Quote from: Berkut on March 24, 2010, 02:21:56 PM
You need more than one go to comprehend spoken words?
Sometimes, when I'm not paying full attention to the person speaking.
QuoteAnd you can type faster than you can talk?
Probably not, but it's close enough.
QuoteOr read faster than you can hear?
Definitely yes on that, not even close.
OK, it is true that I can read faster than someone speaks to me - but I am pretty sure that they cannot type faster than I can listen, so that actually doesn't matter.
But the point is that hearing requires no attention - it is completely passive, it happens even if you aren't looking at the chat window. And speaking requires no effort of anything that is busy doing something else.
You cannot rationally claim that typing in a chat window is "more efficient" than simply speaking. There must be some other reason.
Do you refuse to speak to people in person as well, and just jot notes to them instead? Since that is every so much more "efficient" than these pesky spoken words that people seem so attached to?
Weird. Anyway, can't make anyone speak if they don't want to I guess.
I guess a voice server could be fun for our sunday game as well. at least it would beat the common chat hiding the map from me :P and you could laugh at my accent while I hurl insults your way :P
I will cry the first time that Tamas calls me a beet-farmer or a Gypsy as if it were the worst insult ever.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 24, 2010, 01:44:26 PM
I think I could do without Viking's heavy breathing and lack of English-speaking, but otherwise I'm fine with it.
:glare:
The only negative I could see to using Vent for EU3 is it might make the emodrama that much greater, and apparently, there is way too much of that already in some of these games.
Thus far, this group has been pretty drama-free and I don't see much of a probability of it striking us. Then again, I didn't see Slargos as being the first to bitch-quit our other game, so take my prescience for what you will.
Quote from: Berkut on March 24, 2010, 02:45:28 PM
But the point is that hearing requires no attention - it is completely passive, it happens even if you aren't looking at the chat window. And speaking requires no effort of anything that is busy doing something else.
It just doesn't work that way for me, and I never considered myself unique. I zone out if I don't make the effort of listening to what is being said.
QuoteYou cannot rationally claim that typing in a chat window is "more efficient" than simply speaking. There must be some other reason.
I always found it much more convenient, I'm not sure why that sounds so strange to you. To me reading is the much more effortless task. When I didn't speak English well, I found it way, way easier to follow close captions on TV than to actually follow the spoken words. I still do to some extent. As for other reasons, people who don't know me sometimes have difficulty understanding my accent, that may also make the conversation require more effort.
QuoteDo you refuse to speak to people in person as well, and just jot notes to them instead? Since that is every so much more "efficient" than these pesky spoken words that people seem so attached to?
In person is different. I prefer to speak in person, but if that's not possible, I prefer instant messaging over the phone conversation. It's just too much effort to listen to the other person when their voice is all there is to the communication. Don't know why, just is. Maybe my personal preferences are not as representative as I thought there were, so I withdraw my general comment about efficiency.
Quote from: Berkut on March 24, 2010, 02:08:21 PM
I freaking hate having to try to keep an eye on the damn chat window, or trying to make any kind of deal in real time via typing, and managing who you are sending the message to, and all that.
It would be so much easier to just use voice chat.
Yes, sometimes the chat window is concealed, agreed.
Making deals? I don't think that it's any problem. Doing the deals between sessions works fine for me and negotiation using the chat function is fine.
Managing messages would be just as hard using VOIP, harder even since you have to alt-tab out of the game, change from general chat to personal chat.. all the while I could be declaring war and landing a large army in england while you are out of the game.
I haven't used ventrilo, but feel the need to do so at least one session just to show I can actually speak english.
I don't even have a mic for my computer so I will spare everyone the sound of my voice.
So which country should I play. I like Hungary, but I have the feeling I'd be rapidy crushed between Austria and the turks. Otherwise, unifying Italy might be interesting.
That's alright, I wont play. :)
Khorosan does sound interesting though.
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 24, 2010, 06:02:06 PM
I don't even have a mic for my computer so I will spare everyone the sound of my voice.
So which country should I play. I like Hungary, but I have the feeling I'd be rapidy crushed between Austria and the turks. Otherwise, unifying Italy might be interesting.
You better stay out of Italy, trust me on that one.
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2010, 07:00:57 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on March 24, 2010, 06:02:06 PM
I don't even have a mic for my computer so I will spare everyone the sound of my voice.
So which country should I play. I like Hungary, but I have the feeling I'd be rapidy crushed between Austria and the turks. Otherwise, unifying Italy might be interesting.
You better stay out of Italy, trust me on that one.
AI Aragon owns too much of it for spain not to get involved. Rest is either nerfed, vassalized or soon to be conquered.
I don't have a mic, so I am of DGuller's persuasion on the chat issue.
hansie? where are you boobie?
Big dramatic session there.
Pre-session Austria had done quite a bit of diplomacy.
Russia (kleves) said, don't care what you do in germany, just leave russia and lithania to me
France (katmai) said, you can form the HRE in exchange for 7 provinces
Spain (dguller) said, you can for the HRE in exchange for 9 provinces
Turkey (habbaku) said, I agree to the 1815 border being our zones of control
Kleves made no demands, just declared, katmai declared BEFORE I had enough time to cede him the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th provinces, dguller remained allied, but made a special deal to not fight in exchange for not being attacked and Habbaku brazenly invaded bufferzone hungary despite already having taken transylvania and ragusa on my side of the 1815 buffer line.
So I was attacked by Russia, Turkey, France and England and assraped being forced to give away half (40) my provinces. I must point out that Slargos did ragequit for much less.
In the first half of the war I was attacked on all sides and beat back the invaders on all sides. France was invaded and beaten and surrendered. The turks were defeated and pushed into the sea. Needless to say all of this fighting didn't give me more than 20% Army tradition. I'll have to find out, do I still have the tradition malus?
I lost the netherlands, modern germany and lots of land in italy about 40 provinces including the lübeck and genoa centers of trade.
What ultimately got me, were two things, first, the ottoman leaders. I could sit on a mountain, with high quality high morale troops be attacked by equal numbers consisting of 50% cavalry and have him break me every fucking time. Army Tradition. I started the wars at 0 because of the Ewiger Landesfrieden -3% (iirc) tradition malus. That meant my WE jumped up. Which meant that it took me a year to recruit a regiment of infantry. Just before the collapse, I had recruitment going on in EVERY SINGLE PROVINCE I had and still I had 3500 in the bank and 250k manpower. I was building like a madman during the French truce. But I had the WE then even. I tried to build a fleet to get rid of the ottoman galleys blocading my italian coast, but they took 1200 days to build. By the time they were finished, Berkut was blocading them with the full English Fleet.
Now the Habbaku is warning me and guaranteeding loads of German Minors, while the rest are free to annex cossacks, aztecs, cherokee and indians.
For the record, I made the deal only after you told me before the game that I didn't need to fight. The deal with Habakku wasn't really a deal, but more of an understanding, in light of my own understanding that I didn't need to get militarily involved.
That was quite an interesting session, not least of which because it saw the near-immediate creation of the HRE due to Viking's release of a bunch of vassals to get the Imperial Authority necessary...and then saw the HRE torn to pieces by the successful coalition against her.
For reference :
The HRE at the height of her power :
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1571.jpg&hash=a9eb6e09bbc5fe7386fb1c0bebe7079f92190aff) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1571.jpg)
After the war, and after Viking decided he didn't wish to abide by the peace and leave the German minors alone :
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586.jpg&hash=154e5d1f35dbd92a926c49966b4a236f24c27dcf) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586.jpg)
More screens of interest. Anyone that wants any other information should feel free to ask.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586econ.jpg&hash=90355cb77f8b99e3822fd4c035de1431384f002a) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586econ.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586army.jpg&hash=b70b9a6bd88e230770751e772bc176ddcba9fb94) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586army.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586navy.jpg&hash=a778586028fc8cc09e1e25d9962b91147de74026) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586navy.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586provinces.jpg&hash=4ab6c3398b0002a41a22d5adc93406e89bd54dd0) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586provinces.jpg)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586tech.jpg&hash=aa3cf0f0ee77ed2d95e8a0471604d2e8ce4d4e1a) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586tech.jpg)
Viking, I may have said that I did not care about German issues, and that's true. Forming the HRE, however, is not merely a German issue. Had Europe let that stand long enough for you to consolidate your rule, there would have been no stopping you.
I intervened to protect the balance of power. Your brand new possessions in the Baltic were also very troubling, and a direct threat to Russia.
I'm sorry habbaku, but I'll become a pacifist and never attack anybody. But in that case I suggest you change the settings for the HRE A.I. to zero aggression and I can get on with doing other things, like sleep and playing against the A.I. I would be rather be doing something else other than just building buildings and cracking down on rebels. If any of the other players think that it is fair the hegemon to bully lesser powers, I'm sure they will behave and welcome their Turkish Overlords.
Can you post the stats for 1571, so you can see how dangerous I was at the height of my power.
And for the record, that is NOT the HRE at the height of its power, that is the HRE before you attacked me. Don't pretend that my intervention in your attack on hungary was me attacking you. The HRE at the the height of its power had the four spanish provinces in italy, the three french northwest most provinces and pskov. All of which were ceded to my neighbors as per previous arrangements.
I see 13 provinces I lost and 8 provinces I have gained during the session all while losing all the empire bonuses and all my vassals. I'm weaker than when we started. Everybody else is larger. All my gains were in the post war wars. If you think that me getting to the position I was in PRE-Unification now that I don't have the bonuses and cannot superannex the empire is super duper dangerous then you are sadly deluded.
Quote from: Kleves on March 25, 2010, 01:05:23 AM
Viking, I may have said that I did not care about German issues, and that's true. Forming the HRE, however, is not merely a German issue. Had Europe let that stand long enough for you to consolidate your rule, there would have been no stopping you.
I intervened to protect the balance of power. Your brand new possessions in the Baltic were also very troubling, and a direct threat to Russia.
given that logic, I suspect you are expecting an invasion then? You didn't even ask for the provinces. Nor did you even seek to test my willingness to hold to the promises I had already made.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.christianehoej.dk%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F10%2Fkhadei.jpg&hash=cc151bbe873582e00e720c320419fcc5103301f6)
How the hell did Spain manage to double its income? I spent most of my session watching the war in Europe.
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 01:26:04 AM
How the hell did Spain manage to double its income? I spent most of my session watching the war in Europe.
I present; my bestest ever ally.
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 01:26:04 AM
How the hell did Spain manage to double its income? I spent most of my session watching the war in Europe.
Colonial expansion, grabbing up chunks of northern Italy (very rich provinces), growth of your colonies to cities, higher value of the trade centers you own, increased trade...
Same reason Berkut's income is so high now that he's finally stabilized himself. Sweden, too.
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 01:26:43 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 01:26:04 AM
How the hell did Spain manage to double its income? I spent most of my session watching the war in Europe.
I present; my bestest ever ally.
For future reference, anyone unfortunate enough to be allied with me should be more precise in stating what they want me to do or not do beforehand.
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 01:25:24 AM
given that logic, I suspect you are expecting an invasion then? You didn't even ask for the provinces. Nor did you even seek to test my willingness to hold to the promises I had already made.
There were two issues that triggered Russian intervention: 1) The threat to the balance of power (which was very real, given that it took nearly every other nation in the game to bring you down, and even then you beat France and England once, and captured Paris twice) and 2) Your presence in the Baltic. Diplomacy seemed unlikely to solve these issues.
Now, with that said, the Holy Roman Empire (Republic?) has dealt honorably with Russia in the past, and I hope we can return to friendly relations in the future.
My generals sucked, I left about 6-9k men to guard against Spain (not knowing what was going on)
and he chewed up French forces and not hearing from Ottomans and English and unaware of Russian fighting I WP this first time.
Was humming along after that dealing with revolts when about two years before truce ends Viking asked I'd I was going to fight him, I said only if he forced me into war, response I saw was why shouldn't I attack you right now then?
So I started building up army again and when my English ally dow'd so did i, though I stayed within my borders till was attacked by Viking.
Quote from: katmai on March 25, 2010, 01:48:58 AM
My generals sucked, I left about 6-9k men to guard against Spain (not knowing what was going on)
and he chewed up French forces and not hearing from Ottomans and English and unaware of Russian fighting I WP this first time.
Was humming along after that dealing with revolts when about two years before truce ends Viking asked I'd I was going to fight him, I said only if he forced me into war, response I saw was why shouldn't I attack you right now then?
So I started building up army again and when my English ally dow'd so did i, though I stayed within my borders till was attacked by Viking.
Well, I was certain you would join as soon as Habbaku was able to move overland. You did as England's ally do just that. I didn't have time to look up who was on which side in the war england declared on me. Did DGuller even join that one?
To be honest I first found out that we were at war when I heard that I lost a battle against you, one of my regiments was given movement orders from flanders to switzerland to join the armies fighting the turk. Shit I though and followed the plan that worked last time. The Schlieffen Plan. Hit France hard, force peace and then turn and face the turk. Only this time France was covered in lvl 2 forts, not lvl 1 forts. :bleeding: I managed to take Paris for the second time. It's just by that time Habbaku and his Über Turk Generals and land rout to Austria was approaching Dresden along with Russian Support. The straw that broke the camels back was when the force sieging one of the regions near paris actually dropped to 0 infantry and I realized that I could NOT stab hit Katmai out of the war. That and the Ottomans wiping out a broken 20 regiment army some days before. Really didn't have anything other than empty regiments and about 200 regiments under production all of which took 200 days to finish... damn WE.
I joined all the wars, as per our agreement.
How the hell can Habbaku lead the statistics in every EU3 game we play regardless of the country he plays? You guys suck.
Quote from: Tamas on March 25, 2010, 02:52:43 AM
How the hell can Habbaku lead the statistics in every EU3 game we play regardless of the country he plays? You guys suck.
When I went to war to prevent habbaku from ravaging the othewise peaceloving land of Hungary. Rather than support the poor invaded hungarians kleves, katmai and berkut all attacked me. He did successfully nerf the power that is best positioned to nerf him.
It was pretty simply really - the province count graph tells the story completely.
Austria grew way too fast, and got way to big, so everyone ganged up on him and cut him down to size.
It is just that simple - all the "he said, she said" is missing the forest because you are staring at a tree.
You got way to big, too fast, and upset the balance of power. The game would suck if the response was anything other than what it was.
Now, we need to start looking at the Turks, and seeing how and if we need to check them. It is Habs, so the answer is most likely "Oh yeah..."
Kudos to viking for going for it though, and kudos to viking for not Slargosing when it all fell apart. And kudos to us for not letting it happen. Such it the fun of MP gaming...
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 02:55:38 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 25, 2010, 02:52:43 AM
How the hell can Habbaku lead the statistics in every EU3 game we play regardless of the country he plays? You guys suck.
When I went to war to prevent habbaku from ravaging the othewise peaceloving land of Hungary. Rather than support the poor invaded hungarians kleves, katmai and berkut all attacked me. He did successfully nerf the power that is best positioned to nerf him.
I love your cute story of how we must leave you as strong as France and the Ottomans put together, or we will all lose. Like you becoming twice the power of everyone else is some great sacrifice on your part, to save us all from TEH TURK MENACE!
I'm sure even Habs can be brought down by four other powers. :P
I think a major factor in the balance of power equation is whether we can get another human to play in Europe. How is that looking?
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 09:26:48 AM
I think a major factor in the balance of power equation is whether we can get another human to play in Europe. How is that looking?
Altough in this game I think Hans should choose Korasan, but I think the Austria problem in all our games has been partially because of no other central-european player.
The problem with having another player in Germany is that the "Austria-problem" will rapidly turn into the "France-problem". Sure, Austria can get big, but considering that they are assured of hostility from both France and the Ottomans (and possibly Russia) in every game keeps them contained somewhat. The real potential winners are the edge powers who have only the AI to stop their expansion.
Quote from: Tamas on March 25, 2010, 09:37:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 09:26:48 AM
I think a major factor in the balance of power equation is whether we can get another human to play in Europe. How is that looking?
Altough in this game I think Hans should choose Korasan, but I think the Austria problem in all our games has been partially because of no other central-european player.
I think it's definitely a problem in our game. The lack of Prussia equivalent means that it's only a matter of time before Germany becomes Austria.
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 09:26:48 AM
I think a major factor in the balance of power equation is whether we can get another human to play in Europe. How is that looking?
I talked a friend of mine at work into trying the game, and he really likes. Turns out his son does as well, and they've been playing each other.
He would like to join, and perhaps his son as well, but he doesn't finish up his darts league for another week or two, and that is Wednesday nights until about 9ish.
His son might be interested in joining us next week though.
Quote from: Tamas on March 25, 2010, 02:52:43 AM
How the hell can Habbaku beat my income as the Ottomans 100 years prior? I suck.
Fixed that for you.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1586-1.gif&hash=4525c0dc9917add2553881ab20e4f3608384a7dc) (http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/Habbaku/?action=view¤t=1586-1.gif)
Quote from: Habbaku on March 25, 2010, 11:50:25 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 25, 2010, 02:52:43 AM
How the hell can Habbaku beat my income as the Ottomans 100 years prior? I suck.
Fixed that for you.
:face:
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 09:54:32 AM
I think it's definitely a problem in our game. The lack of Prussia equivalent means that it's only a matter of time before Germany becomes Austria.
I agree, there needs to be competition. I stand by my Austrian brothers against the Saxon. I stand with my German brothers against the Frog etc.etc.
The ease of doing it went to my head I think. I have one lesson at least. Stop at Gemeiner Pfenning and just conquer the rest using the religious and imperial CBs. Right now I am less of a real threat than I was at the start of the session since I can't unify the HRE again, but I am perceived as a greater threat than I was at the start of the session; in Habbaku's propaganda at least.
I don't even know why anyone would go for the last few reforms. It's far easier just to unify Germany the old-fashioned way, and turning into HRE makes you lose all those juicy reform bonuses.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 25, 2010, 02:28:16 PM
I don't even know why anyone would go for the last few reforms. It's far easier just to unify Germany the old-fashioned way, and turning into HRE makes you lose all those juicy reform bonuses.
Tell me about it.....
It seems that Habbaku doesn't think that me losing 60 of the richest provinces in the game, being reduced to less than my starting strength AND losing the empire bonus was enough for him. So, while anybody else can go off and conquer whatever he likes, Habbaku seems to think that the Ottomans are the arbiters of what happens in Germany.
Habbaku is declaring that the nr 4 power in the game is the biggest threat and can't expand on pain of dismemberment.
Boy, you sure are posting a lot about what I think without any input from me. How is it that you got access to the inner-workings of my brain?
Watching Viking thrash around now that he's lost the HRE is actually rather amusing. I hope it continues.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 25, 2010, 05:19:23 PM
Boy, you sure are posting a lot about what I think without any input from me. How is it that you got access to the inner-workings of my brain?
Watching Viking thrash around now that he's lost the HRE is actually rather amusing. I hope it continues.
You seem unable to read the word seem.
Quote from: dictionary.com
seem
/sim/
–verb (used without object)
1.
to appear to be, feel, do, etc.: She seems better this morning.
2.
to appear to one's own senses, mind, observation, judgment, etc.: It seems to me that someone is calling.
3.
to appear to exist: There seems no need to go now.
4.
to appear to be true, probable, or evident: It seems likely to rain.
5.
to give the outward appearance of being or to pretend to be: He only seems friendly because he wants you to like him.
Nowhere in the peace agreement was it suggested that I guarantee the independence of any german minors. Yet now you are intent on breaching what was agreed, the 50 year truce, to protect something which was not. Sir, you promised to respect the our line of separation along the 1815 border between Austria and Turkey, you breached that in ragusa and transylvania well before the formation of the HRE. You have also promised to abide by a 50 truce, which you have made it clear you will break. Sir, does your word mean anything to you?
It seems to me both of you shouldn't get any bigger,
Viking even more so since discussions in game were to have Hans taking Bavaria.
Besides Viking you should take it as a compliment as habbu feels you are the biggest threat as a player.
Can someone upload the save file? Being a noob, I forgot to save before ending the session.
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 07:32:48 PM
You seem unable to read the word seem.
You seem unable to read your own words. Or do you want to go back and edit them some more? Nah, I think I'll just quote them here to prevent you Stalinizing more of your posts.
Quote
Habbaku is declaring that the nr 4 power in the game is the biggest threat and can't expand on pain of dismemberment.
Interesting. No presence of the word seem there. Nor here :
QuoteI can't unify the HRE again, but I am perceived as a greater threat than I was at the start of the session; in Habbaku's propaganda at least.
Pray tell, where's this 'propaganda' you speak of in which I paint you as the greater threat?
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 07:32:48 PM
Nowhere in the peace agreement was it suggested that I guarantee the independence of any german minors. Yet now you are intent on breaching what was agreed, the 50 year truce, to protect something which was not. Sir, you promised to respect the our line of separation along the 1815 border between Austria and Turkey, you breached that in ragusa and transylvania well before the formation of the HRE. You have also promised to abide by a 50 truce, which you have made it clear you will break. Sir, does your word mean anything to you?
:cry: You got backstabbed. Woe is you. How dare everyone not allow you to form the HRE!
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 05:03:09 PM
It seems that Habbaku doesn't think that me losing 60 of the richest provinces in the game, being reduced to less than my starting strength AND losing the empire bonus was enough for him. So, while anybody else can go off and conquer whatever he likes, Habbaku seems to think that the Ottomans are the arbiters of what happens in Germany.
Habbaku is declaring that the nr 4 power in the game is the biggest threat and can't expand on pain of dismemberment.
You quote mine me. You
seem not to be able to look at the paragraph before the one loose sentence.
In-game you called me the biggest threat on the grounds that I had demonstrated the willingness to conquer all of germany. England and France have america and india, spain has central and south america, ottomans have arabia and maghreb, russia has siberia, Germany has what? The implied threat is "behave as a minor power or become one".
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 09:27:19 PM
Can someone upload the save file? Being a noob, I forgot to save before ending the session.
http://www.mediafire.com/?yz5jfomtjmn
Quote from: Habbaku on March 25, 2010, 09:40:52 PM
:cry: You got backstabbed. Woe is you. How dare everyone not allow you to form the HRE!
Have you posted the stats from my highpoint and compared them to your present ratings yet?
I do feel for Viking just a little. Being Austria, he's got two options to pass his time: conquer Central Europe, or twiddle his thumbs. It's not like he can go out and colonize America or conquer South Asia.
Soon, mighty Scandinavia will emerge and upset the tenuous balance of European power by at least 5%.
Russia doesn't have Siberia. <_<
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 10:35:47 PM
I do feel for Viking just a little. Being Austria, he's got two options to pass his time: conquer Central Europe, or twiddle his thumbs. It's not like he can go out and colonize America or conquer South Asia.
There is no doubt that we should start worrying about the new 800lb gorilla.
Of course, Spain is expanding at a rather incredible rate as well, having taken over pretty much all of Central America, the good parts of South America, etc., etc. And they now have the largest fleet as well. Given their apparent lackey status with Austria, I am not sure if I can really set myself up as any kind of counter to the Turk.
About fucking time Salk.
And as to viking he keeps trying to compare the New World/ African/East Asian colonies to the entrenched, developed provinces of central europe is pretty fucking funny.
I did take my time, but it mainly was as a result of me learning how to play the game effectively. I like to think I'm doing much better now.
this quote right here is why Viking can't get back to HRE size or close to it
Quote
Just before the collapse, I had recruitment going on in EVERY SINGLE PROVINCE I had and still I had 3500 in the bank and 250k manpower
Quote from: Berkut on March 25, 2010, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 10:35:47 PM
I do feel for Viking just a little. Being Austria, he's got two options to pass his time: conquer Central Europe, or twiddle his thumbs. It's not like he can go out and colonize America or conquer South Asia.
There is no doubt that we should start worrying about the new 800lb gorilla.
Of course, Spain is expanding at a rather incredible rate as well, having taken over pretty much all of Central America, the good parts of South America, etc., etc. And they now have the largest fleet as well. Given their apparent lackey status with Austria, I am not sure if I can really set myself up as any kind of counter to the Turk.
:lol: Lackey status with Austria? I guess news is one more thing that's on the slow side in England.
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 11:38:16 PM
:lol: Lackey status with Austria? I guess news is one more thing that's on the slow side in England.
former lackey.. I fired him, he was useless, not to mention making deals with habbaku....
Quote from: katmai on March 25, 2010, 11:00:28 PM
About fucking time Salk.
And as to viking he keeps trying to compare the New World/ African/East Asian colonies to the entrenched, developed provinces of central europe is pretty fucking funny.
Where exactly should I expand then?
Just to reflect further on a previous point, if some sort of counter to Austria is desired, it shouldn't be a German minor (which would counter only Austria, and as was rightfully pointed out, Austria can only really expand in Germany). It should either be an Italian minor (Venice or Naples works well in 1492), which would counter Austria/France/Ottomans, or Poland, countering Austria/Russia/Ottomans. Otherwise the "edge powers" would benefit too much from a checked Austria.
Or could just start in 1399. :P
A 1399 start would be kind of interesting, although playing Muscovy would be...challenging.
Actually, on that note, maybe start in 1399 and play GH...
What do people think of that World Wide Mod thing? Is that a viable MP mod?
Quote from: Viking on March 26, 2010, 02:57:45 AM
Quote from: katmai on March 25, 2010, 11:00:28 PM
About fucking time Salk.
And as to viking he keeps trying to compare the New World/ African/East Asian colonies to the entrenched, developed provinces of central europe is pretty fucking funny.
Where exactly should I expand then?
You did enough expanding prior to the last war to last another 100 years or so.
Actually, why not expand somewhere useful, like Hungary? I bet nobody would complain if your expansion was at the Ottoman expense, rather than some poor innocent minors...
Quote from: Viking on March 26, 2010, 02:48:06 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 25, 2010, 11:38:16 PM
:lol: Lackey status with Austria? I guess news is one more thing that's on the slow side in England.
former lackey.. I fired him, he was useless, not to mention making deals with habbaku....
A bad master can make his lackey seem dysfunctional, especially a lackey on the slow side. Before the formation of HRE, you said I wouldn't need to fight, and you needed Spain to grow strong. I don't think anyone can argue that I didn't follow both of your instructions to perfection.
Quote from: Berkut on March 26, 2010, 08:24:06 AM
What do people think of that World Wide Mod thing? Is that a viable MP mod?
It is pretty decent. But there are some "home made" mod's you'd have to preform if you are going to play it with 4.1b.
Quote from: Berkut on March 26, 2010, 08:23:31 AM
A 1399 start would be kind of interesting, although playing Muscovy would be...challenging.
Actually, on that note, maybe start in 1399 and play GH...
I did in the previous game, it was pretty rough. Managed to finally get it going when slargos rage quit. :rolleyes:
Are we going to change to the new patch for the next session?
BTW, what's Hansy's status? Will he continue slumming it as Persia, or will he be put in charge of forming a strong German state?
Quote from: DGuller on March 27, 2010, 02:11:25 PM
BTW, what's Hansy's status? Will he continue slumming it as Persia, or will he be put in charge of forming a strong German state?
Says the guy who demolished portugal 2 seconds after it lost it's player.
Quote from: Viking on March 27, 2010, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 27, 2010, 02:11:25 PM
BTW, what's Hansy's status? Will he continue slumming it as Persia, or will he be put in charge of forming a strong German state?
Says the guy who demolished portugal 2 seconds after it lost it's player.
What does this have to do with anything?
Still no 1571 stats. But, perhaps habbaku doesn't like to contemplate the comparison with his 1586 stats it might generate?
Viking, you're not going to convince anyone that you were not a threat as HRE, so I don't know why you keep trying.
Looking from the 1571 save after re-host, HRE has 310 in income (which is probably an underestimate of the true peace-time income, as Viking already had a WE of 15). Much more scarily, he has the max manpower of 292,000. He also has a 297 land force limit. If he were left in peace for a decade or two, to build up his navy so that he could prevent the blockades, he would be unstoppable.
I was at 310 income, Habbaku is at 300 income and is not surrounded by all other players.
Quote from: Viking on March 27, 2010, 03:49:50 PM
I was at 310 income, Habbaku is at 300 income and is not surrounded by all other players.
With a decade of peace, you'd be able to consolidate that into much more impressive numbers. You'd have more cash than you'd know what to do with, you would be easily able to double your standing army and wage a war of attrition, and with a navy buildup program you wouldn't be able to be brought to your knees. If you keep trying to negotiate for a return of HRE of old, you're just going to play right into Hab's hands. He has free reign as long as Europe is scared of the specter of HRE, and rationally or irrationally, Europe is scared of the specter of HRE.
One other thing that I noticed is that in 1571 you have not yet built constables in 49 of your provinces that you controlled at that time, the vast majority of them having a huge tax base. It's one more thing that you could easily shore up if you were given time to consolidate.
Quote from: Viking on March 27, 2010, 03:31:56 PM
Still no 1571 stats. But, perhaps habbaku doesn't like to contemplate the comparison with his 1586 stats it might generate?
Sorry, but as DG has pointed out, I don't see the point in comparing apples and oranges. Your potentially arguing that I am somehow equivalent to the whole of the HRE united and consolidated is laughable, at best.
Quote from: DGuller on March 27, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
What does this have to do with anything?
Good question.
Quote from: DGuller on March 27, 2010, 12:46:49 PM
Are we going to change to the new patch for the next session?
Lets wait and see what the Palm Sunday session makes those players think. I think the Sunday game is going to use the patch. If there are no problems (mainly save game wise) then we should play with the next patch.
I think a newly weakened HRE and the Ottomans should agree to an all-out, WW2-like unconditional surrender war 5-10 years from next game until one side utterly collapses. That way Sweden could advance into northern Germany without any problems whatsoever and Russia could go for the Otto provinces. Russo-Sweden could then unite and take on China and Japan, which are clearly encroaching upon sovereign Russo-Swede territory in the far east--meaning China and Japan.
Quote from: Viking on March 27, 2010, 09:34:33 PM
Lets wait and see what the Palm Sunday session makes those players think. I think the Sunday game is going to use the patch. If there are no problems (mainly save game wise) then we should play with the next patch.
There were no problems and there are some nice improvements to the UI and naval combat, at a minimum.
I would not say there aren't any problems - the screwed up NI interface would certainly rate as "problem".
What's the verdict? Go or no go on the patch?
Go.
- Mercenaries now reinforce, but are more expensive; both to buy and maintain
- Lowered the effect of revolt risk on local tax a little bit
- Fixed a problem with AI peace demands sometimes exceeding peace cost due to gold rounding
- Added new modifier merc_maintenance_modifier
- The Colonel advisor now also lowers mercenary maintenance costs
- Fixed a bug causing PU junior countries to sometimes get their own monarch after a reload
- Added forts to many Tatar and Middle East provinces
- Added "Tribal Feud" and "Horde" CBs
- The Horde type FoGs now bleed off Infamy much faster
- Imperial bonuses and penalties are a little smaller now.
- France and Revolutionary France are now mutually exclusive.
- Fixed the ideas tooltip.
- 'controlled_by' trigger now lists rebelfaction in tooltip.
- When negotiating a settlement with rebels you no longer get their units.
- Prestige is now colored correctly.
- Diplomatic skill is now a little bit more important in HRE elections.
- Fixed a setup in the First Anglo-Dutch war which caused a crash when reloading lategame saves.
- Fixed some problems in the naval supplies demand calculation.
- Its no longer possible to switch government form to a non-monarchy if you have any unions.
- The 'idea' trigger now works in province scope.
- Fixed a calculation error with paths going over the dateline.
- Galley costs is now also affected by the serfdom/free subject slider, and a bit less by naval/land slider.
- Attrition in unitview is now colorized depending if a unit is losing men or not compared to reinforcement.
- Unit strength is colored red if attrition is > reinforcement in the outliner.
- Fixed a crash bug with country names
- Fixed an issue which sometimes generated country names upside-down
- Fixed an issue when selecting scenarios which missed updating country names
We will be using this patch for our game day after tomorrow.
That is a new patch, btw, as of toady 29March.
A link probably helps.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468427
New checksum is HDNK. Please make sure yours matches.
I shall pull a kleves and wait till the last possible moment.
I shall pull a Katmai and pull a Kleves.
Get a room you two.
I shall pull a slargos and oh, wait, no I won't.
So I noticed that in our Sunday game, I had several provinces that still said "?" for trade good. For years and years. Posted something in the PDox forum about the potential bug, was quickly told by a dev that this was not a bug, it was just "bad luck".
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468438
Yeah, turns out that it is a bug.
Quote from: Berkut on March 29, 2010, 08:36:17 PM
So I noticed that in our Sunday game, I had several provinces that still said "?" for trade good. For years and years. Posted something in the PDox forum about the potential bug, was quickly told by a dev that this was not a bug, it was just "bad luck".
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468438
Yeah, turns out that it is a bug.
Johan, actually (home account). Poor guy doesn't even know how his own game works. I've had that one happen before.
QuoteActually probably not technically a 'bug' but a design flaw. Certainly something that should be fixed somehow though.
:lmfao:
Quote from: DGuller on March 29, 2010, 08:54:38 PM
QuoteActually probably not technically a 'bug' but a design flaw. Certainly something that should be fixed somehow though.
:lmfao:
I am going to tell my boss that next time he asks me why something in EON isn't working.
That isn't a bug, it is a design flaw!
I am sure that will make our customers feel much better....
Quote from: ulmont on March 29, 2010, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 29, 2010, 08:36:17 PM
So I noticed that in our Sunday game, I had several provinces that still said "?" for trade good. For years and years. Posted something in the PDox forum about the potential bug, was quickly told by a dev that this was not a bug, it was just "bad luck".
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468438
Yeah, turns out that it is a bug.
Johan, actually (home account). Poor guy doesn't even know how his own game works. I've had that one happen before.
Pfft, no software designer has any idea how a complex piece of software works. It simply is not possible.
Quote from: Berkut on March 29, 2010, 08:56:46 PM
Pfft, no software designer has any idea how a complex piece of software works. It simply is not possible.
Eh, disagree.
So, the next session is coming up. What with Sweden and Spain speculating which German and Imperial territories to take and the Ottoman seeking to dismember The Empire once again.
Well, I look forward to seeing which power thinks that Austria is not required to contain the Ottomans.
What are you talking about? Spain has no designs on Imperial lands, although it will take some if Austria needs to be reined in again.
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2010, 10:00:49 AM
What are you talking about? Spain has no designs on Imperial lands, although it will take some if Austria needs to be reined in again.
Viking post-beatdown has taken on a martyr complex that would make even me blush.
Which is funny considering how cocky and arrogant he was pre-beatdown.
Quote from: Viking on March 30, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
Well, I look forward to seeing which power thinks that Austria is not required to contain the Ottomans.
Why don't we all just let you diploannex us? Spain, France, England, all join the HRE. Sure, we'd lose, but at least there will be someone there to take on those Ottomans.
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2010, 10:02:51 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 30, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
Well, I look forward to seeing which power thinks that Austria is not required to contain the Ottomans.
Why don't we all just let you diploannex us? Spain, France, England, all join the HRE. Sure, we'd lose, but at least there will be someone there to take on those Ottomans.
I am not sure that would really be enough though.
Quote from: Berkut on March 30, 2010, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2010, 10:02:51 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 30, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
Well, I look forward to seeing which power thinks that Austria is not required to contain the Ottomans.
Why don't we all just let you diploannex us? Spain, France, England, all join the HRE. Sure, we'd lose, but at least there will be someone there to take on those Ottomans.
I am not sure that would really be enough though.
Baby steps.
He is right though - in fact, he has an impressive knack for being right, and yet *still* managing to be completely unconvincing.
With Russia apparently not willing to make any kind of move against the Ottomans (what is that, anyway?), that leaves Austria as the only viable check to the game leader.
It would help if diplomatic conversations didn't go like this:
Viking: Please do A, B, and C, so that I could become stronger.
DGuller: Ok, that will help you get stronger. What's in it for me?
Viking: Your benefit is that I'll get stronger.
Hi everyone!
This is Arvoreen...I'm the friend from work that Berkut mentioned before... So while I'm interested in joining, I still have one more week of darts (not counting this week) that I need to finish up before being able to commit. My son is also interested, but has decided to wait for me first :)
I look forward to following your exploits through these interesting posts :lol: and hope to join you on April 14th.
Well everbody knows Berkut has no friends so must be a sockpuppet.
And yeah sorry but vikings I need to be as strong as next two powers combined schtick don't fly.
Patch was updated. For the love of Christ, download and install it before tomorrow.
New checksum is HPZE.
Quote from: Arvoreen on March 30, 2010, 04:08:13 PM
Hi everyone!
This is Arvoreen...I'm the friend from work that Berkut mentioned before.
Who the fuck are you?
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
It would help if diplomatic conversations didn't go like this:
Viking: Please do A, B, and C, so that I could become stronger.
DGuller: Ok, that will help you get stronger. What's in it for me?
Viking: Your benefit is that I'll get stronger.
DGuller: Hey can we talk.
Viking: Go away, you are a useless ally.
DGuller: But I'm sure we can do something to help each other.
Viking: OK, what is it?
DGuller: I can excommunicate german minors for the CB.
Viking: I don't need CBs against german minors, I have holy war on the protestants and reconquest on the bavarians.
DGuller: I could support you against Turkey.
Viking: You are a useless ally, but I won't deny you a chance to redeem yourself.
DGuller: In exchange I want land in italy.
Viking: Are you kidding? I've already lost more than enough land, no.
DGuller: What do you expect my support for free?
Viking: I didn't ask for it, I don't really value it and what you benefit is an alliance with a neighbour to France and Turkey. I don't really care if I have your support or not, I don't really see the value in it.
Quote from: katmai on March 30, 2010, 04:43:09 PM
Well everbody knows Berkut has no friends so must be a sockpuppet.
And yeah sorry but vikings I need to be as strong as next two powers combined schtick don't fly.
I'd settle for being as strong as one of my rivals.
:lol: which rivals outclass you like you did All of us at HRE formation?
Quote from: Viking on March 30, 2010, 05:38:25 PM
I'd settle for being as strong as one of my rivals.
You must be content, then, since you're certainly stronger than France.
:( poor France I think even the English are stronger than I.
No, but the Dutch are.
Quote from: Viking on March 30, 2010, 05:36:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
It would help if diplomatic conversations didn't go like this:
Viking: Please do A, B, and C, so that I could become stronger.
DGuller: Ok, that will help you get stronger. What's in it for me?
Viking: Your benefit is that I'll get stronger.
DGuller: Hey can we talk.
Viking: Go away, you are a useless ally.
DGuller: But I'm sure we can do something to help each other.
Viking: OK, what is it?
DGuller: I can excommunicate german minors for the CB.
Viking: I don't need CBs against german minors, I have holy war on the protestants and reconquest on the bavarians.
DGuller: I could support you against Turkey.
Viking: You are a useless ally, but I won't deny you a chance to redeem yourself.
DGuller: In exchange I want land in italy.
Viking: Are you kidding? I've already lost more than enough land, no.
DGuller: What do you expect my support for free?
Viking: I didn't ask for it, I don't really value it and what you benefit is an alliance with a neighbour to France and Turkey. I don't really care if I have your support or not, I don't really see the value in it.
Actually, you were the one who brought up the Ottomans. You said that I could excommunicate Bavaria for you, but only if I guaranteed you publicly against the Ottomans. My mistake was assuming that the part where I guarantee HRE against the Ottomans wasn't my reward for doing the excommunication.
EAGC fuck...
Sigh, reinstalling from scratch...
french mission fix pre- or post- patch? just latest patch or all of them in sequence?
What's the date of the latest patch? Is it March 29? I have so many references to the "latest patch" that, with the many changes recently, I'm not sure which one is the latest of the latest.
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2010, 06:41:21 PM
What's the date of the latest patch? Is it March 29? I have so many references to the "latest patch" that, with the many changes recently, I'm not sure which one is the latest of the latest.
The March 29th patch was updated today, but the name wasn't changed; so if you haven't downloaded a patch sometime today you need to go to the March 29th thread and get the .rar files in the first post.
that fucking romania thing is back...
Is Hans taking over Bavaria or the Netherlands this week?
Quote from: Kleves on March 30, 2010, 07:45:59 PM
Is Hans taking over Bavaria or the Netherlands this week?
Haven't heard anything. But, Hungary, Ming, Japan or some Indian as well as continuing with Khorsan are all options.
Quote from: Viking on March 30, 2010, 06:58:30 PM
that fucking romania thing is back...
HPZE!!!!! :w00t:
It seems the root of my problems is that IZarc defaults to not extracting subfolders.
I think we should have a full house tonight, excepting Hans, who I have not heard anything from.
Argh, stuck at work for next three hours.
Quote from: katmai on March 31, 2010, 06:50:48 PM
Argh, stuck at work for next three hours.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bytelove.com%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2FBytelove%2FGeneric%2Fexcellent%2520-%2520zoom.jpg&hash=45f933c67fb1a670fa987cd8fec5dbdcd20bf917)
Thanks for the advance notice, kat. <_<
So what's the plan for France?
Quote from: Kleves on March 31, 2010, 06:58:33 PM
Thanks for the advance notice, kat. <_<
So what's the plan for France?
If it's good enought for Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland), does France deserve better? :secret:
That sucks a lot, given that a country like France has a lot to do during this time frame.
Kat, ulmont is going to sub for you for a little while, get online as soon as you can.
3 hours my ass.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F9826%2Feu3maptur1607631.png&hash=cf6c70ae811541de7167d1a47a35e80bc5ad50b1) (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/eu3maptur1607631.png/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1607econ.jpg&hash=c76f75dade037fa7d31133065ffbfd1a4628da8d)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1607provinces.jpg&hash=3123a2b9f0bcc9a7127d764de21fbff925821f08)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1607tech.jpg&hash=33c1c6ea611c4b595bb5904f85f97a92ff1fa7cb)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1607armies.jpg&hash=20883323532748838f0226a89914b6c4497b7e97)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1607navies.jpg&hash=01db6b5c58fe302a4222954f66c355a465270bc8)
This session was slightly less eventful than the last one. 1586 - 1604 IIRC.
Pre-session diplomacy failed to resolve anybody to join an anti-Habbaku coalition. Every prospective non-Holy Roman faction refused to join on the grounds that the Holy Roman Empire was just as much a threat as the Ottoman Empire and the coalition had to resolve the issue of HRE power before moving on to Ottoman Power. The HRE refused to join on the grounds that the rest of the coalition was more focused on taking down the HRE than the Ottoman Empire.
Wars of note included
The Bavarian War of Aggression against Elsass where Bavaria and The Netherlands attacked Elsass and The HRE. Elsass found itself annexed, The Netherlands was made to release 3 provinces of minors and The HRE took Elsass and two other provinces from Bavaria.
The Spanish War of Reconquest against Portugal followed by the HRE war of Intervention against Spain and the French war of Intervention against The HRE followed by various (including holstein and cologne) wars of intervention against the HRE once my WC had dropped to 0. The results were Lisabon to Spain, some colonies to France, Gelderland, Leipzig and overlordship over a 3 province Holstein for the HRE. This war was actually contested. France successfully invaded Belgium and took most of the provinces, after a bit of back and forth Spain invaded and took Milan. Once the HRE had an election and picked a Military Ruler (3.6.4.2 leader) and the combattants reduced to 14% HRE, 10% Fra and 5% Spa WE the HRE counteroffensive started. Freddy von Zwiebelhänder (or whatever he was called) routed spanish and french forces in Italy while other HRE generals counter attacked in the Rheinland and Belgium. The War ended with Spain calling for a White Peace and the HRE and France agreeing. I can't not mention the efforts by my Hungarian Allies in saving my bacon at least two times in Italy and actually invading France. I managed to get two 20 regiment armies annihilated by the Spanish King. When I returned the favour that is when DGuller called for White Peace.
Maybe not as much fun as a War of Leaderbashing against the Ottomans, but I suppose the pre-requisite for such a war is the presumption by all the parties that the Ottomans are the most dangerous power.
All in all a fun session, but I am falling behind since I can't gobble up my neighbours without provoking a War of Fourthplacebashing against me.
I can't do anything about the weather!
Quote from: Viking on March 31, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
This session was slightly less eventful than the last one. 1586 - 1604 IIRC.
Pre-session diplomacy failed to resolve anybody to join an anti-Habbaku coalition. Every prospective non-Holy Roman faction refused to join on the grounds that the Holy Roman Empire was just as much a threat as the Ottoman Empire and the coalition had to resolve the issue of HRE power before moving on to Ottoman Power.
Quote from: Viking on March 31, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
This session was slightly less eventful than the last one. 1586 - 1604 IIRC.
Pre-session diplomacy failed to resolve anybody to join an anti-Habbaku coalition.
To say this isn't quite true would be something of an understatement.
Actually, pre-session diplo resolved for everyone to join an anti-Habs coalition....the only sticking point being viking. Every single other power, with only the exception of Sweden, was willing to get on board.
What nixed the entire thing?
Viking refusing to agree that the war would not be an excuse for him to gobble up more German states.
So instead, he made a deal with Habbaku to stay at peace...in return for him not gobbling up a bunch of German states.
That is some high quality diplomacy right there.
Of course, by now a coalition against me isn't wholly necessary. I am not growing at anywhere near the speed of, say, Britain and Spain, who will certainly overtake me in the next session unless they get into a war with one-another. I hope they do so, of course, considering they have a lot more to fight each other over than me.
Well, that was an interesting session. My first EU3 war against another human. I'm surprised I didn't crumble in short order, and was even on a roll until that costly miscalculation with the timing of my army's tactical retreat. Of course, I couldn't have done it without the help of my temp ally ulmont, whose contribution is greatly appreciated. Hopefully the Emperor will think longer before picking fight with Spain next time, and instead will focus on the Turk threat.
As for war with Great Britain, I wouldn't count on it. I think that our arrangement is mutually beneficial, and will stay that way. As for the threat of Spain overtaking the Ottomans on income, that is a possibility. However, before hyperventilating over a threat of me being too powerful, I suggest paying attention to my manpower number. Like Britain, I'm no threat to the balance of power on the continent regardless of my income, and I have no intention of becoming one.
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 31, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
This session was slightly less eventful than the last one. 1586 - 1604 IIRC.
Pre-session diplomacy failed to resolve anybody to join an anti-Habbaku coalition. Every prospective non-Holy Roman faction refused to join on the grounds that the Holy Roman Empire was just as much a threat as the Ottoman Empire and the coalition had to resolve the issue of HRE power before moving on to Ottoman Power.
Quote from: Viking on March 31, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
This session was slightly less eventful than the last one. 1586 - 1604 IIRC.
Pre-session diplomacy failed to resolve anybody to join an anti-Habbaku coalition.
To say this isn't quite true would be something of an understatement.
Actually, pre-session diplo resolved for everyone to join an anti-Habs coalition....the only sticking point being viking. Every single other power, with only the exception of Sweden, was willing to get on board.
What nixed the entire thing?
Viking refusing to agree that the war would not be an excuse for him to gobble up more German states.
So instead, he made a deal with Habbaku to stay at peace...in return for him not gobbling up a bunch of German states.
That is some high quality diplomacy right there.
It's an AAR Berkut and quite obviously told from my point of view. Calling me a liar over an issue which at best can be an issue of interpretation is just not Kosher. I only post private correspondence when I get called a liar. Non Berkutite replies have been removed to protect the guilty.
Quote from: Berkut on March 30, 2010, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Viking on March 25, 2010, 05:11:09 PM
You have already taken the Empire bonus from me, taken 60 of the richest provinces in the game from me and now Habbaku wants to dismember me further. I just need to ask you. Who is going to do the bulk of the fighting when you take Habbaku down? If I don't get some protection from you soon I can pretty much guarantee that I can't be that power.
Viking is right - the Ottomans have already fully Westernized, and they are being played by someone who is very, very good at this game. This should be almost as worrisome as the HRE was.
The problem is that we need viking to counter Habs, but to be honest viking, you lack credibility - my suspicion is that you are just using the threat of the Ottomans to justify snatching up most of Europe, and don't really have any intention of doing anything about the Ottomans.
I am not sure how we resolve this - but at the end of the day, if we let the Ottomans keep the Austrians down, they are going to win easily.
Here you lay out the precondition that I can't be allowed to be strong after the war. Later on you go on to say (again, Non-berkutite replies have been removed to protect the guilty).
Quote from: Berkut on March 30, 2010, 03:05:48 PM
I think that sounds like a great start. Note this is how Habs got everyone on board in the anti-HRE quest - by making it about cutting down the HRE, rather than strengthening the Ottomans. Of course, a cut down HRE strengthens the Ottoamsn *without* the Ottomans having to take a single province - which is why Habs is itching to do it again.
The reverse is also true, of course - weakening the Ottomans makes the HRE stronger even if he does not pick up a single province in the process.
If we get a chance to smash up the Ottoman fleet, that would be very good as well.
Shit, by simple means of reducing ottoman power I automatically grow stronger. Now i'm going from not being allowed to get any bigger to having to give away provinces.
I made no deal with the ottomans I just delivered a political analysis of the situation and a description of my likely actions in certain situations.
Berkut, I don't like posting private correspondence like this, if you disagree with me post your own AAR, don't call me a liar. Regardless of what the situation is in the game I can't win unless I expand, I'm never going to agree not to try to win.
Fuck you, Great Britain. I want my Aztec gold back, you dirty goddamn thief.
PS I love you don't crush me.
Ulmont,
thanks for super subbing for me. I'll be here next week, but chances are 50/50 that once may rolls around I'll have to pull out of wed game.
Quote from: katmai on April 01, 2010, 01:19:45 AM
Ulmont,
thanks for super subbing for me. I'll be here next week, but chances are 50/50 that once may rolls around I'll have to pull out of wed game.
Ulmont played well and overran belgium pushing me back all the way into Munster when at war, plus he managed to prop up DGuller at precisely the right moment. He also added the Savoy province.
Not just Savoy.
Posting private correspondence is not kosher. I won't be engaging in any such correspondence with viking in the future as a result.
If anyone ever needs a blockade of the Austrians, let me know, happy to oblige. That means anyone, under nearly any circumstances - if you are planning a war with the Austrians, or are in a war with them, send me an alliance request for the CB and you will have a ready fleet to drive up their WE. This offer is only good until 1821 though!
Awesome that your betrayal of private correspondence doesn't actually refute what I said - rather it directly supports exactly what I said, and refutes your claims. Good job there viking, your diplomacy skillzors continue to shine.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 01, 2010, 01:13:02 AM
Fuck you, Great Britain. I want my Aztec gold back, you dirty goddamn thief.
PS I love you don't crush me.
You couldn't possibly think I would be ok with that. Who put you up to it?
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 08:01:28 AM
Posting private correspondence is not kosher. I won't be engaging in any such correspondence with viking in the future as a result.
If anyone ever needs a blockade of the Austrians, let me know, happy to oblige. That means anyone, under nearly any circumstances - if you are planning a war with the Austrians, or are in a war with them, send me an alliance request for the CB and you will have a ready fleet to drive up their WE. This offer is only good until 1821 though!
Awesome that your betrayal of private correspondence doesn't actually refute what I said - rather it directly supports exactly what I said, and refutes your claims. Good job there viking, your diplomacy skillzors continue to shine.
OMG U R RONG, U SUXXORZ!!! yeah, that is a cogent summation of a well thought through argument.
What really baffles me is how bitchy you got when I refused to join the alliance against me (and the ottomans if you ever get round to it). Of course I'm not going to join any agreement that has as it's first principle that I need to be weakened and all other members get to divide up the rest of the world.
Apart from the first (where you agree Habbaku is dangerous) and the last (where you gloat at the prospect of sinking the ottoman fleet) every single word is concerned with how I not only should not benefit from weakening the ottomans but I should also promise not to expand any more. It clearly shows that your prime concern of the "coalition" was to weaken my rather than oppose the ottomans. This is all very strange to me since you neither document any dishonesty on my part yet claim that I am when I agree not to profit in land in the war against the ottoman. How I am supposed to take german land from Habbaku baffles me. Most clearly when the whole thing flounders on the grounds that I won't agree to stop or limit expansion in my own back yard for the rest of the game. It is only 1604, there are 217 years left FFS.
What I do find personally insulting is the presumption that I must refrain from trying to win the game as part of the terms of any in game deal.
Posting private conversation is very wrong.
What is it with scandis and lack of diplo skill?
Nope, the entire thing was about the Ottomans, and the importance of keeping the goals focused on the Ottomans, rather than reforming the HRE. And where have I been "bitchy" - you are perfectly willing to compromise any kind of principles by posting private correspondence, so please share this "bitchiness". All I said, and this was echoed by every single person in the discussion, was that I was not going to tolerate a return of Austria dominating the continent. Which, btw, I told you in the very first discussions we had before the game even started. Balance of power and all that.
You refused to agree that that was the goal, and insisted that you should be allowed to snatch up as much of Europe as you want - the goal of this war for you was not at all to stop the Ottomans, but to reverse the outcome of the previous war, so you could go back to being "at least as big as the Ottomans and France combined" which the rest of us had just fought a war to stop. Surprise, surprise, nobody was interested in such a deal.
You do not have a "well though out argument", you have no argument at all. Your diplomacy was simply that if you are not allowed to reform the HRE as it stood before the previous war, you were not going to participate.
Nobody said you could not expand, nobody said you had to lose provinces. We know this to be true, because if they HAD said any such thing, you would certainly post it since you lack the integrity to keep private conversations private. That is simply not true.
The only thing that was said, and that you HAVE posted, is that nobody would tolerate you going back to the position you had before the HRE war, and you categorically refused to join an alliance on those terms, and instead ran to Habbaku and tried to "get back" at the continental powers by agreeing to the exact same limit you refused to consider to begin with. Yeah, that worked out real well, didn't it?
But beyond all that in game stuff, you really should not take this stuff so personally, and reacting by betraying trust. It is just a game, and if you cannot be trusted with basic privacy, what is the point? The game is not worth you compromising your actual integrity, or it shouldn't be, anyway.
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2010, 09:10:36 AM
Posting private conversation is very wrong.
Indeed. And it is the kind of move that you never are really going to leave behind - even after the game is long over.
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 09:07:09 AM
What I do find personally insulting is the presumption that I must refrain from trying to win the game as part of the terms of any in game deal.
Viking, the motivation of our demans was very simple. We didn't want to knock down one hegemon just to install another, more dangerous one. I'm sure you want to win, but I'm also sure that you're not going to win while wanting to win in such a way. You're also not going to win any friends by posting private conversations of utmost strategic importance, as now EVERYONE knows that you can't be trusted with keep the negotiations secret. You can't win the game all alone, but you can sure lose it for good.
What is funny is that viking is making such a concerted effort to piss off one of the major powers who explicitly refused to enter the war against him when asked to do so, on the basis that I did not want to see Austria weakened anymore.
Yeah, that is not so much my concern anymore. Have fleet, will travel.
Jonas, check your PMs.
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 09:19:20 AM
Nope, the entire thing was about the Ottomans, and the importance of keeping the goals focused on the Ottomans, rather than reforming the HRE. And where have I been "bitchy" - you are perfectly willing to compromise any kind of principles by posting private correspondence, so please share this "bitchiness". All I said, and this was echoed by every single person in the discussion, was that I was not going to tolerate a return of Austria dominating the continent. Which, btw, I told you in the very first discussions we had before the game even started. Balance of power and all that.
I don't accept your premise that I will be "dominating the continent" by reconquering the german minors. Best demonstrated by the fact that (out of HRE, Spain, France and Britain) I have the 3rd largest army, 3rd largest economy by far the smallest fleet but only the largest manpower. How would you react if you were told that you could not expand at all?
Quote
You refused to agree that that was the goal, and insisted that you should be allowed to snatch up as much of Europe as you want - the goal of this war for you was not at all to stop the Ottomans, but to reverse the outcome of the previous war, so you could go back to being "at least as big as the Ottomans and France combined" which the rest of us had just fought a war to stop. Surprise, surprise, nobody was interested in such a deal.
I see the quote marks. If you are going to claim I said any such thing I suggest you document it.
Quote
You do not have a "well though out argument", you have no argument at all. Your diplomacy was simply that if you are not allowed to reform the HRE as it stood before the previous war, you were not going to participate.
As you can see from the present stats that is clearly not the case, even if I took all the former HRE provinces.
Quote
Nobody said you could not expand, nobody said you had to lose provinces. We know this to be true, because if they HAD said any such thing, you would certainly post it since you lack the integrity to keep private conversations private. That is simply not true.
Call somebody a Liar.
Quote
The only thing that was said, and that you HAVE posted, is that nobody would tolerate you going back to the position you had before the HRE war, and you categorically refused to join an alliance on those terms, and instead ran to Habbaku and tried to "get back" at the continental powers by agreeing to the exact same limit you refused to consider to begin with. Yeah, that worked out real well, didn't it?
Again, you "quote" can you document?
You seem to think that it is a realistic demand for me to accept terms which I obviously consider to completely put me out of contention for winning. But then again that is why you demanded it. Better to be a failed kingmaker than successful pawn. You don't get to call me a liar for telling it from my point of view.
Quote
But beyond all that in game stuff, you really should not take this stuff so personally, and reacting by betraying trust. It is just a game, and if you cannot be trusted with basic privacy, what is the point? The game is not worth you compromising your actual integrity, or it shouldn't be, anyway.
Good game play and well timed backstabs can be appaluded (and revenged). Telling your side of the story just makes it more fun. Calling somebody a liar or a cheat however is not good form. Tell your own story, don't call me a liar.
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 09:53:56 AM
How would you react if you were told that you could not expand at all?
Like if - just thinking of an example here - a large neighboring power (let call them "HRE") guaranteed a non-bordering country (say, "Portugal") roughly 2 seconds after you expressed a plan to expand at the expense of Portugal?
I'd probably be pissed and likely go to war with the HRE.
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 09:53:56 AM
Good game play and well timed backstabs can be appaluded (and revenged). Telling your side of the story just makes it more fun. Calling somebody a liar or a cheat however is not good form. Tell your own story, don't call me a liar.
Never called you a liar, I said what you said was not true, and it clearly is in fact, not true.
If you want to label yourself as a liar as a result of someone pointing out that what you said was true was not true, even if you couch it in terms of "telling a story", that is your call.
Frankly, lying really isn't that big of a deal in a game like this. So what?
Lacking even the most basic integrity however, is a much bigger deal.
QuoteI see the quote marks. If you are going to claim I said any such thing I suggest you document it.
You said it in open game chat at the end of the last war, when you complained that the peace being forced on you was not reasonable on the grounds that if you add up all your provinces, they are no more than France and the Ottomans combined. Are you denying that you said that? Everyone in the game saw it and got a good laugh out of it.
QuoteAs you can see from the present stats that is clearly not the case, even if I took all the former HRE provinces.
Of course it isn't the case, we fought a war to NOT make it be the case. And you refused to join an anti-Turn coalition because the rest of the Coalition refused to agree that you be allowed to return to your pre-HRE war status of "the size of France+Ottomans" that you apparently felt was your due.
I am sure if I am full of shit about all this, one of the other participants in the discussion will chime in and say so, right?
Don't hold the breath on my account, Berkut tells the truth as I know it.
Quote from: DGuller on April 01, 2010, 10:14:50 AM
Don't hold the breath on my account, Berkut tells the truth as I know it.
This is going in my sig.
Quote from: DGuller on April 01, 2010, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 09:07:09 AM
What I do find personally insulting is the presumption that I must refrain from trying to win the game as part of the terms of any in game deal.
Viking, the motivation of our demans was very simple. We didn't want to knock down one hegemon just to install another, more dangerous one. I'm sure you want to win, but I'm also sure that you're not going to win while wanting to win in such a way. You're also not going to win any friends by posting private conversations of utmost strategic importance, as now EVERYONE knows that you can't be trusted with keep the negotiations secret. You can't win the game all alone, but you can sure lose it for good.
Shit, the guy with the 6th largest army and the 4th largest income is the proto hegemon? WTF?
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 11:42:23 AM
Shit, the guy with the 6th largest army and the 4th largest income is the proto hegemon? WTF?
You keep saying this, as if we're expected to believe it. Do you think that this sort of diplomacy has helped the HRE thus far?
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 11:42:23 AM
Shit, the guy with the 6th largest army and the 4th largest income is the proto hegemon? WTF?
No need to play dumb. Not all income is the same, not all army sizes are the same, and most importantly, the threat is the potential of what you could become, not what you currently are. Everything that you have, as well as threatening to seize, is all on one contiguous land mass. I'm not sure why you're still laboring under the illusion that some of us can be fooled about the threat of HRE as a united country.
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 10:09:21 AM
You said it in open game chat at the end of the last war, when you complained that the peace being forced on you was not reasonable on the grounds that if you add up all your provinces, they are no more than France and the Ottomans combined. Are you denying that you said that? Everyone in the game saw it and got a good laugh out of it.
This is out of context. Your misquote is from the peace negotiations dismembering the HRE where Habbaku wanted to reduce me to bohemia and austria only, smaller that the ottomans in europe and smaller than france. I naturally argued for keeping me as big as possible. I successfully lobbied to keep myself slightly larger than France without colonies.
Quote
Of course it isn't the case, we fought a war to NOT make it be the case. And you refused to join an anti-Turn coalition because the rest of the Coalition refused to agree that you be allowed to return to your pre-HRE war status of "the size of France+Ottomans" that you apparently felt was your due.
I am sure if I am full of shit about all this, one of the other participants in the discussion will chime in and say so, right?
My pre HRE size was about 50 provinces, my post was about 40. I made no argument that I should be as big as France+Ottomans, I argued that if I were made too small nobody could stop either of them. An argument you agreed with at the time.
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 08:03:29 AM
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 01, 2010, 01:13:02 AM
Fuck you, Great Britain. I want my Aztec gold back, you dirty goddamn thief.
PS I love you don't crush me.
You couldn't possibly think I would be ok with that. Who put you up to it?
I put myself up to it. I got bored and started browsing around the open territories throughout the world and lo and behold, there were TWO Aztec gold provinces open...so I got an expedition of plucky Swedes and showed that they too can colonize with the best of 'em. Unfortunately the Portuguese beat me to the first one, but I was able to get their capital.
Quote from: Kleves on April 01, 2010, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 11:42:23 AM
Shit, the guy with the 6th largest army and the 4th largest income is the proto hegemon? WTF?
You keep saying this, as if we're expected to believe it. Do you think that this sort of diplomacy has helped the HRE thus far?
You can make the argument that I should behave differently and in that case I might be able to mitigate some of the 'bad press' I'm getting. Fair enough. I might stay ahead of Sweden or Hungary by agreeing to watch as the others divvy up the rest of the world. As a matter of principle I'm not going to make promises that will be broken once I am strong enough to do so and I'm not going to concede the game less than half way through. From the moment I formed the HRE and got beaten down the argument that I can't aspire to regain the strength I had then and equating that with any expansion forces me to either accept minor power status or stand up to them.
Quote from: DGuller on April 01, 2010, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 11:42:23 AM
Shit, the guy with the 6th largest army and the 4th largest income is the proto hegemon? WTF?
No need to play dumb. Not all income is the same, not all army sizes are the same, and most importantly, the threat is the potential of what you could become, not what you currently are. Everything that you have, as well as threatening to seize, is all on one contiguous land mass. I'm not sure why you're still laboring under the illusion that some of us can be fooled about the threat of HRE as a united country.
By the time you convert the incas and aztecs as well as colonize the bulk of 'gran colombia' you will be as powerful as a full HRE. Just as when the ottomans finish taking the entire middle east and the russians convert the steppes and India and SEasia are divide up amonst the powers.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 01, 2010, 12:03:04 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 08:03:29 AM
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 01, 2010, 01:13:02 AM
Fuck you, Great Britain. I want my Aztec gold back, you dirty goddamn thief.
PS I love you don't crush me.
You couldn't possibly think I would be ok with that. Who put you up to it?
I put myself up to it. I got bored and started browsing around the open territories throughout the world and lo and behold, there were TWO Aztec gold provinces open...so I got an expedition of plucky Swedes and showed that they too can colonize with the best of 'em. Unfortunately the Portuguese beat me to the first one, but I was able to get their capital.
Fair enough - I was actually going to be rather begrdugingly impressed with DG if he negotiated their status with me, then turned around and suggested that you grab them.
THAT would be a rather devious move.
Anyway, I sent you a PM - we can and should discuss Swedish colonies in the NW, I am not adverse to a Swedish presence in NA, in general.
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 12:07:56 PM
Fair enough - I was actually going to be rather begrdugingly impressed with DG if he negotiated their status with me, then turned around and suggested that you grab them.
THAT would be a rather devious move.
Anyway, I sent you a PM - we can and should discuss Swedish colonies in the NW, I am not adverse to a Swedish presence in NA, in general.
I'm just a simple guy trying to run a country as best as I can. Such level of devious diplomacy is not in my arsenal. Besides, my main motivation for agreeing to lay off the Aztecs was to remain on good terms with you. That's the kind of agreement you really want to adhere to in spirit, and not just in letter.
Speaking of Swedes, I had to do a double take as I saw their ships round Cape Horn and sail north next to Incan coast. I had to confirm three times that they were indeed the Swedes. I thought poor Swedes must've taken a wrong turn somewhere.
Just goes to show that no good deed goes unpunished.
"Hey England, can I have military access?"
"Why?"
"Oh, you know, just to look around and stuff..."
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 12:07:36 PM
By the time you convert the incas and aztecs as well as colonize the bulk of 'gran colombia' you will be as powerful as a full HRE.
This is pretty much complete horseshit and you know it. The manpower and regimental support levels of Spain once that stuff is finished will still be nowhere near the full HRE's. Even if the HRE doesn't have as much cash, nor do they have to worry about tech drag from having so many provinces (all of theirs being super-rich, after all), but they also don't have to worry about taking any New World-based Ideas, either--allowing them to take all the military stuff early and easily kick the crap out of the Spanish army, as we saw in Italy.
Damnit Habs, just let the poor man tell his story!
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2010, 01:00:59 PM
Just goes to show that no good deed goes unpunished.
"Hey England, can I have military access?"
"Why?"
"Oh, you know, just to look around and stuff..."
That was two sessions ago! I never had the capability to go Aztecin' way back then.
Quote from: DGuller on April 01, 2010, 12:47:26 PMI'm just a simple guy trying to run a country as best as I can. Such level of devious diplomacy is not in my arsenal. Besides, my main motivation for agreeing to lay off the Aztecs was to remain on good terms with you. That's the kind of agreement you really want to adhere to in spirit, and not just in letter.
Speaking of Swedes, I had to do a double take as I saw their ships round Cape Horn and sail north next to Incan coast. I had to confirm three times that they were indeed the Swedes. I thought poor Swedes must've taken a wrong turn somewhere.
Oh it was the right turn alright...the right turn toward delicious Aztec gold that was unconquered. I channeled the vikings of 800 years before and went halfway around the world to conquer two small territories laden with gold.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dgqzhhfyrvg
The save file for those wanting to check stuff out and for Katmai.
got it thanks.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 01, 2010, 01:16:36 PM
Quote from: Viking on April 01, 2010, 12:07:36 PM
By the time you convert the incas and aztecs as well as colonize the bulk of 'gran colombia' you will be as powerful as a full HRE.
This is pretty much complete horseshit and you know it. The manpower and regimental support levels of Spain once that stuff is finished will still be nowhere near the full HRE's. Even if the HRE doesn't have as much cash, nor do they have to worry about tech drag from having so many provinces (all of theirs being super-rich, after all), but they also don't have to worry about taking any New World-based Ideas, either--allowing them to take all the military stuff early and easily kick the crap out of the Spanish army, as we saw in Italy.
Qui Bono.
I have a job interview Wednesday evening at 6:30 with a local college football officials association.
It is in Waterloo, so I might be back by 8:30, I *should* be back by 8:30. On the other hand, I have no real idea what is involved, or how long it will take, so it is possible I will not be back on time.
I will be there though, so I will see if ulmont can stand in for me if I am late, at least until I get there.
You have to all the way to Belgium? Damn, that's harcore.
Ulmont can't play this Wednesday (7th), he has agreed to take over Austria for me and will take over next Wednesday (14th). This game is just not worth staying up all night on a week night for me. Though I am definitively turned on to playing EU3 on line, only just with people in CET +-2.
I have left Austria with low infamy, high prestige, rich, well armed and contiguous. I'm sure the AI won't fuck it up too bad.
I could sub for someone this week. The time isn't great for me to become a permanent player but this week I am free fo' so'.
EDIT: I would need a Steam group invite (sbr32) and a tutorial in the Hamachi thing ASAP though.
Quote from: sbr on April 05, 2010, 02:04:23 AM
I could sub for someone this week. The time isn't great for me to become a permanent player but this week I am free fo' so'.
EDIT: I would need a Steam group invite (sbr32) and a tutorial in the Hamachi thing ASAP though.
Well you have two options, Holy Roman Empire or Great Britain.
Quote from: Viking on April 05, 2010, 02:16:13 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 05, 2010, 02:04:23 AM
I could sub for someone this week. The time isn't great for me to become a permanent player but this week I am free fo' so'.
EDIT: I would need a Steam group invite (sbr32) and a tutorial in the Hamachi thing ASAP though.
Well you have two options, Holy Roman Empire or Great Britain.
I don't have much preference, since I am going to be a temp sub on either I will let Berkut and others put me where they need me. :)
Well, Manus lavo and good luck.
Later Viking,
I can relate to time zone with the sun game being so damn early for me.
Sbr
well berkie should be able to run uk more matter of him just being late, unless he pulls a me :P
Quote from: katmai on April 05, 2010, 02:44:26 AM
Sbr
well berkie should be able to run uk more matter of him just being late, unless he pulls a me :P
That's what i was thinking. From what I have read I would prefer to play GB but it sounds like there is more of a need for the HRE.
I am pretty sure I can get gangbanged as well as anyone else. :P
I would guess that depends on uli's take on dipomacy compared to Viking.
Quote from: katmai on April 05, 2010, 02:54:16 AM
I would guess that depends on uli's take on dipomacy compared to Viking.
I get to play before ulmont gets a chance to display his diplomatic skills. (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.backupot.com%2FSmileys%2Fclassic%2Fevil.gif&hash=c9bc50ce9c5ee49125d3e199c2dc6463ba824416)
Joking.
Any chance I could get a hold of the save game file, it would be nice to not run into this blind.
@Ulmont-If you have any thoughts or want to discuss what the HRE does this session shoot me a message.
The save should be in thread here as that is how I got it.
Look for post from habs.
Quote from: katmai on April 05, 2010, 03:04:23 AM
The save should be in thread here as that is how I got it.
Look for post from habs.
:blush:
Thanks.
That save just CTD'd when I tried to load it.
I have the March 30 version of the latest beta Patch with a checksum of WURS. What do I need to do to be compatible with you all?
Quote from: sbr on April 05, 2010, 03:40:13 AM
That save just CTD'd when I tried to load it.
I have the March 30 version of the latest beta Patch with a checksum of WURS. What do I need to do to be compatible with you all?
The latest beta patch should be all you need, but the checksum is HPZE. Make sure you extracted all subfolders and not just the top level folder from the beta patch.
Quote from: sbr on April 05, 2010, 03:02:07 AM
@Ulmont-If you have any thoughts or want to discuss what the HRE does this session shoot me a message.
Will do. I have yet to look at the save file from an HRE perspective, though, so it may be tomorrow.
You need French mission fix, I think.
Well Viking, if you gotta go, then arranging for your own replacement beforehand is the classy way to do it. If nothing else, you ensured that this game was always interesting.
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2010, 08:31:26 AM
You need French mission fix, I think.
The later beta patches include the French mission fix, so that should be unnecessary.
...at the very least, the damned thing shouldn't CTD.
So viking is not playing this Wednesday? And sbr is subbing for ulmont, who is taking over for viking, who is rageq....errrh, can't play anymore because it is too late, because ulmont cannot play this Wednesday as well?
So we are still short someone to fill in for me (maybe)....right?
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2010, 08:59:51 AM
So viking is not playing this Wednesday? And sbr is subbing for ulmont, who is taking over for viking, who is rageq....errrh, can't play anymore because it is too late, because ulmont cannot play this Wednesday as well?
So we are still short someone to fill in for me (maybe)....right?
I think that is correct.
Quote from: Berkut on April 05, 2010, 08:59:51 AM
So viking is not playing this Wednesday? And sbr is subbing for ulmont, who is taking over for viking, who is rageq....errrh, can't play anymore because it is too late, because ulmont cannot play this Wednesday as well?
So we are still short someone to fill in for me (maybe)....right?
Man, the palace intrigue in the European courts can get pretty complicated. :huh:
Quote from: ulmont on April 05, 2010, 08:41:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2010, 08:31:26 AM
You need French mission fix, I think.
The later beta patches include the French mission fix, so that should be unnecessary.
...at the very least, the damned thing shouldn't CTD.
I never actually unpacked the .rar files after I downloaded. :Embarrass: All is good now with HPZE. I have never used Hamachi so I will still need a lesson in how that gets set-up.
King of ironic how Ulmont fought valiantly and brilliantly against the Emperor and helped stem the vicious and uprovoked attack, only to become the Emperor in the next session.
Quote from: DGuller on April 05, 2010, 11:22:01 AM
King of ironic how Ulmont fought valiantly and brilliantly against the Emperor and helped stem the vicious and uprovoked attack, only to become the Emperor in the next session.
Very European, actually.
Quote from: sbr on April 05, 2010, 11:07:24 AM
I never actually unpacked the .rar files after I downloaded. :Embarrass: All is good now with HPZE. I have never used Hamachi so I will still need a lesson in how that gets set-up.
Steam invitation sent. Just log on at some point and I'll run you through the Hamachi stuff.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 05, 2010, 05:40:21 PM
Quote from: sbr on April 05, 2010, 11:07:24 AM
I never actually unpacked the .rar files after I downloaded. :Embarrass: All is good now with HPZE. I have never used Hamachi so I will still need a lesson in how that gets set-up.
Steam invitation sent. Just log on at some point and I'll run you through the Hamachi stuff.
Thanks for the invite. I hooked up with ulmont on Steam and he walked me through the Hamachi stuff so I think I am good.
Quote from: Kleves on April 05, 2010, 08:33:59 AM
Well Viking, if you gotta go, then arranging for your own replacement beforehand is the classy way to do it. If nothing else, you ensured that this game was always interesting.
Finding a replacement is a pre-requisite for quitting as far as I'm concerned.
Problem. I had to reinstall Windows today. Thus I had to also reinstall EU3. The patch Habbaku gave me gives me errors and the game won't work with it.
wtf.
In what order did you do everything?
Installed game.
Installed patch 4.1_fixed into my EU3 folder.
Probably a stupid question, but did you install HTTT?
Yeah I installed the complete edition. I guess I need other patches first? I dunno.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 06, 2010, 02:38:55 PM
Yeah I installed the complete edition. I guess I need other patches first? I dunno.
If you installed EU 3 Complete, then you didn't install HTTT. EU 3 Complete only takes you up to IN expansion, IIRC.
Damn, you're right. I need to grab that from Habbaku again.
The Complete edition does not include HttT.
Quote from: Berkut on April 06, 2010, 03:43:32 PM
The Complete edition does not include HttT.
Thank you, DGuller, Jr.
Complete edition installed.
HTTT installed.
Where patch? Because the game says a .dll file is missing at that point.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 06, 2010, 06:41:08 PM
Complete edition installed.
HTTT installed.
Where patch? Because the game says a .dll file is missing at that point.
It could be a Directx 9 .dll file. Did you install Directx 9 since reinstalling Windows?
Reinstalled DirectX. Works now. Thanks DGull. Need the patch now, IN ORDER.
So yeah basically no matter what I do the game refuses to patch. I keep using winrar to extract to my folder and it keeps giving me 200 some-odd error messages about this and that. I have no idea why it isn't working this time when it worked just fine when I first did this a month ago.
Did you install HTTT? HTTT is not included in EU 3 : Complete.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 06, 2010, 11:09:16 PM
So yeah basically no matter what I do the game refuses to patch. I keep using winrar to extract to my folder and it keeps giving me 200 some-odd error messages about this and that. I have no idea why it isn't working this time when it worked just fine when I first did this a month ago.
Do you have Windows 7 or something? If you do, try unzipping the patch into a temp folder, and then copying the files from the temp folder to the game folder.
Okay thank you Dguller. That worked instantly.
Fuck you Habbaku.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 06, 2010, 11:25:05 PM
Okay thank you Dguller. That worked instantly.
Fuck you Habbaku.
I don't know if you did or not but as a general idea you shouldn't install games in the Program Files folder. Most games still default there but the newer operating systems are very protective of that folder.
OK, I am all set for tonight, my interview is the first on the schedule, so I should be back in plenty of time.
Awesome. I am jonesing for some EU3, so I hope we'll be able to get in a good, long session tonight.
BTW, what's the official start time, 8 or 8:30?
8:30.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1644econ.jpg&hash=9be80d893e00dbd8d02b917470306cf3c6028057)
I admit, I thought that, with Spain grabbing most of northern India and most of Italy, I would be doing much worse in relation.
Other screens to come eventually.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FEUIII%2FEU3_MAP_mp_164411_1.jpg&hash=217a492d79900dc0a55bc1e1514a2e874200b8d9)
That was fun. I really enjoy playing this game in MP even when nothing terribly exciting happens. The start time of this game doesn't work for me as a permanent player but feel free to ask me if you need a sub. The Sunday game works better for me, I may see if there is an opening there.
Man all you guys but Viking are huge!
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 12:11:38 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1644econ.jpg&hash=9be80d893e00dbd8d02b917470306cf3c6028057)
I admit, I thought that, with Spain grabbing most of northern India and most of Italy, I would be doing much worse in relation.
Other screens to come eventually.
Wow, that's a lot less impressive for me than I expected. Given the rumblings about my overexpansion, I expected to blow by Habbaku, and not squeak by. Once you consider that my territory consists of four separate chunks, my manpower is mediocre, and my territory count is most likely much higher per same income, I'm really not sure I'm a target worth gunning for to restore balance of power (although admittedly I may be biased in my assessment). I will of course honor my promise to Berkut of redrawing the map of India, and will entertain all expressed concerns about my growth in the spirit of maintaining existing alliances, but I'm in a somewhat less charitable mood now compared to an hour ago.
Oh, man, I just looked at tech summary. FML, I've fallen into a classic Spanish trap.
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 01:29:17 AM
Oh, man, I just looked at tech summary. FML, I've fallen into a classic Spanish trap.
Taking Portugal, Central America, South America, Italy and India is a trap?
I wish I could have been so unlucky.
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 01:29:17 AM
Oh, man, I just looked at tech summary. FML, I've fallen into a classic Spanish trap.
:yes: :contract: I warned you. I warned you all...
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 01:33:50 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 01:29:17 AM
Oh, man, I just looked at tech summary. FML, I've fallen into a classic Spanish trap.
Taking Portugal, Central America, South America, Italy and India is a trap?
I wish I could have been so unlucky.
Rich, but backwards as an African.
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 01:33:50 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 01:29:17 AM
Oh, man, I just looked at tech summary. FML, I've fallen into a classic Spanish trap.
Taking Portugal, Central America, South America, Italy and India is a trap?
I wish I could have been so unlucky.
The trap is getting a low income/province ratio coupled with "lack of land connection" maluses. That's a recipe for technological slide backwards, and it tends to compound on itself over time. Getting such a large empire also requires tremendous cash burn, money that cannot be invested into stuff like manufacturies, and those are hidden gold-mines that don't appear on the income screen.
If I were playing against AI, and thus would have no human diplomacy concerns, I'd take HRE as it is right now over Spain in an instant. Sure, nominally it has only 60% of Spain's income, but it trumps Spain it every other way, and works much better as a complete package.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 01:41:03 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 01:29:17 AM
Oh, man, I just looked at tech summary. FML, I've fallen into a classic Spanish trap.
:yes: :contract: I warned you. I warned you all...
Look at Mr. "I'm ahead of the tech curve by 11 years" with his 30 manufacturies.
I've done some further investigation, and I've found that Britain's colonies produce twice the tariff income for the same good produced compared to mine, even with similar base tax values. Oh, I'm so, so fucked. :bleeding:
Playing the martyr isn't going to convince anyone that your position is awful, DG, no matter how hard you try it.
Though your tech is crimped, your naval tech is comparable to Britain's and that's really all you need. You have no real threats on land because of that. I couldn't touch you if I tried. The only thing that you can really be fucked by is a concerted campaign by the French on land or a slug-out with Britain on the seas and in India.
If I were Katmai, I'd be hammering you in Italy right now. I have no idea why he's so docile...
Start of session
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F9826%2Feu3maptur1607631.png&hash=cf6c70ae811541de7167d1a47a35e80bc5ad50b1)
End of session
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FEUIII%2FEU3_MAP_mp_164411_1.jpg&hash=217a492d79900dc0a55bc1e1514a2e874200b8d9)
This will be my last statement as Regent of the Holy Roman Empire. I am also very happy to be able to hand the country off with such a strong alliance with the Kingdom of Russia.
I agree that the Turks are a menace that needs to be dealt with by the Christian powers.
However, it is a bit difficult to see the colonizing powers continue to use one hand to point out the threat that the Ottoman Empire and The Holy Roman Empire pose to world while they use the other hand to grab chunks of land the size of which would get either Empire gang-banged in a heartbeat.
With that I take my leave and leave things in the hands of the new Emperor.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 02:18:01 AM
If I were Katmai, I'd be hammering you in Italy right now. I have no idea why he's so docile...
They are allied.
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 02:18:01 AM
If I were Katmai, I'd be hammering you in Italy right now. I have no idea why he's so docile...
They are allied.
Alliances mean nothing when you aren't benefiting from the alliance.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 02:18:01 AM
Playing the martyr isn't going to convince anyone that your position is awful, DG, no matter how hard you try it.
Though your tech is crimped, your naval tech is comparable to Britain's and that's really all you need. You have no real threats on land because of that. I couldn't touch you if I tried. The only thing that you can really be fucked by is a concerted campaign by the French on land or a slug-out with Britain on the seas and in India.
If I were Katmai, I'd be hammering you in Italy right now. I have no idea why he's so docile...
My position is not awful right now. However, my prospects are awful, I'm on an irreversible slide backwards. I know, because I've done it more than once against the AI. Once you fall into the trap, the things you can do to get out of the trap are made much more difficult by being in the trap. The problem compounds itself. To increase my income/province ratio, I need to up my production and trading techs, and doing that is very hard because my tech is so gimped. It's a vicious circle.
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 02:23:33 AM
Start of session
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F9826%2Feu3maptur1607631.png&hash=cf6c70ae811541de7167d1a47a35e80bc5ad50b1)
End of session
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FEUIII%2FEU3_MAP_mp_164411_1.jpg&hash=217a492d79900dc0a55bc1e1514a2e874200b8d9)
This will be my last statement as Regent of the Holy Roman Empire. I am also very happy to be able to hand the country off with such a strong alliance with the Kingdom of Russia.
I agree that the Turks are a menace that needs to be dealt with by the Christian powers.
However, it is a bit difficult to see the colonizing powers continue to use one hand to point out the threat that the Ottoman Empire and The Holy Roman Empire pose to world while they use the other hand to grab chunks of land the size of which would get either Empire gang-banged in a heartbeat.
With that I take my leave and leave things in the hands of the new Emperor.
Nobody has any doubts that I have a shitload of provinces. However, as I already said, not all provinces are equal, and province count is a major liability in itself. Colonizing Argentina was a major blunder on my part, although I would've been in trouble even without doing it. Having a large portion of the map painted yellow will not help me if I'm quickly becoming the Sick Man of the World.
I must say Turks are doing bang up job of trying to keep heat off of them by playing up the " threat" of my Catholic cousins in Spain.
Quote from: katmai on April 08, 2010, 02:41:20 AM
I must say Turks are doing bang up job of trying to keep heat off of them by playing up the " threat" of my Catholic cousins in Spain.
Damn Turks :mad:
Quote from: katmai on April 08, 2010, 02:41:20 AM
I must say Turks are doing bang up job of trying to keep heat off of them by playing up the " threat" of my Catholic cousins in Spain.
Yeah, I was going to say that. They "only" have as much income as me, they have 19 more manufacturies (+95 in hidden income), only half as many provinces and in one contiguous landmass, and are 11 years ahead of the research curve. Obviously I'm the one who's a threat to the balance of power in the world.
And must say the Austrian- Russian alliance is interesting.
The Hungarians are screwed.
Wowbthe Dutch are some global trotting fools as is Scandinavia.
I know i said I was done but I forgot one thing. I conquered one province this session; that was Berg which we made clear we were going to take. Besides that I was at war with Bavaria twice and Hungary once and took a grand total of 0 provinces. (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.backupot.com%2FSmileys%2Fclassic%2Fangel.gif&hash=75861f9db43c6f328e25b5085388b40859fd3c8d)
Yeah, the Turks are far and away the front runners still. It is really quite obscene - his early super-rulers have allowed him to completely evade the normal Eastern checks, while at the same time enjoying the benefits of being an Eastern, rather than Western, power - namely, no other Western powers to contend with, even ignoring the other players.
It is like someone went and edited the scenario file to place Austria in Constantinople. One contiguous land mass, western tech and armies, no western opposition to his expansion, and his targets are all low tech chumps he can (and has) simply rolled right over. His size is actually not even indicative on that map, since he has a ton of vassals all driving his tech. The only thing limiting him is, what, infamy? Doesn't seem to be a problem.
Then, to toss a cherry on top of the Ottoman cake, Russia is NOT westernized, not contesting any territory, and has ceded all the traditionally contested territory to the Turk with nary a peep, so even THAT "traditional" check is gone. Of course, at this point, there isn't anything Russia could do anyway - the Turks could crush Russia without even breaking a sweat, I imagine, and that has been true for a long time, so you can't really blame Kleves even.
At this point, there is nothing the HRE could possibly do to make me even bat an eye. Viking's insistence on alienating everyone has driven the HRE far enough behind the curve that I will be cheering any advances they can make while I desperately try to do something to catch up with the Turks, even though I know it is futile. I have the same tech problems that Spain has, but am not really sure what else I should be doing - not expanding? Would that really be better, if I just didn't spread in NA or try to get some tiny slice of India?
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:47:51 AM
Quote from: katmai on April 08, 2010, 02:41:20 AM
I must say Turks are doing bang up job of trying to keep heat off of them by playing up the " threat" of my Catholic cousins in Spain.
Yeah, I was going to say that. They "only" have as much income as me, they have 19 more manufacturies (+95 in hidden income), only half as many provinces and in one contiguous landmass, and are 11 years ahead of the research curve. Obviously I'm the one who's a threat to the balance of power in the world.
While I agree with you, your rather aggressive expansion has in fact made it a debate as to who the biggest threat is, when before there clearly was no debate.
Again, I don't know what you could, or should, have done differently though. Would NOT expanding really be better? Probably in some particular areas (SA), but its not like if only you had 8 less provinces in crappy SA you would be at 30 land tech like the Ottomans.
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:14:49 AM
I've done some further investigation, and I've found that Britain's colonies produce twice the tariff income for the same good produced compared to mine, even with similar base tax values. Oh, I'm so, so fucked. :bleeding:
It's the Protestant work ethic.
Can someone post a link to the save?
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 07:38:04 AM
Then, to toss a cherry on top of the Ottoman cake, Russia is NOT westernized, not contesting any territory, and has ceded all the traditionally contested territory to the Turk with nary a peep, so even THAT "traditional" check is gone. Of course, at this point, there isn't anything Russia could do anyway - the Turks could crush Russia without even breaking a sweat, I imagine, and that has been true for a long time, so you can't really blame Kleves even.
Well, in my defense:
1) The point at which I was strongest vis-a-vis the Ottomans was probably during the great anti-Viking war. I did not fight the Ottomans then, because the HRE seemed the greater threat. Joing the Turks secured me the Ukraine and half of the Crimea (you sure it was only half, Habs?), both of which were Ottoman allies/vassals. Perhaps I should have driven a harder bargain, here.
2) Last session I was crippled by regencies, which prevented my from opening Siberia, or grabbing some of my western cores, which thus became my primary goals this session.
3) Russia entered last night with low legitimacy, high infamy, overextension, and a decade of regency still to go. I am a great deal more secure and stable (and Westernized) leaving the session.
All of which is to say: yeah, I probably made a bunch of mistakes.
Would it be possible to get the tech/army screens, by the way?
Quote from: Kleves on April 08, 2010, 09:30:44 AM
Would it be possible to get the tech/army screens, by the way?
Sorry, it is just too depressing, can't be done.
Quote from: ulmont on April 08, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
Can someone post a link to the save?
Quote from: KlevesWould it be possible to get the tech/army screens, by the way?
Coming up.
Save:
http://rapidshare.com/files/373491895/mp_Holy_Roman_Empire1644_01_01.eu3.html
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FEUIII%2Fmptechs.jpg&hash=dd0e9962d1da926df714920fb4e8c613bd07dcb7)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2FEUIII%2Fmparmies.jpg&hash=6cd35045308d2c71a56a621f262ab3c96beb59fc)
Scandinavia shall rise again.
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 08:11:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:14:49 AM
I've done some further investigation, and I've found that Britain's colonies produce twice the tariff income for the same good produced compared to mine, even with similar base tax values. Oh, I'm so, so fucked. :bleeding:
It's the Protestant work ethic.
Better NIs, yes.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 08:11:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:14:49 AM
I've done some further investigation, and I've found that Britain's colonies produce twice the tariff income for the same good produced compared to mine, even with similar base tax values. Oh, I'm so, so fucked. :bleeding:
It's the Protestant work ethic.
Better NIs, yes.
That's only a small part of it (in hindsight I picked the wrong idea last time around). After the session, I experimented with making some changes, and the Viceroy NI didn't move me up that much in tariff income. The killer advantage of the Brits are their trade and production efficiencies, which are ways ahead of my own.
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 08:11:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:14:49 AM
I've done some further investigation, and I've found that Britain's colonies produce twice the tariff income for the same good produced compared to mine, even with similar base tax values. Oh, I'm so, so fucked. :bleeding:
It's the Protestant work ethic.
Better NIs, yes.
That's only a small part of it (in hindsight I picked the wrong idea last time around). After the session, I experimented with making some changes, and the Viceroy NI didn't move me up that much in tariff income. The killer advantage of the Brits are their trade and production efficiencies, which are ways ahead of my own.
Going Protestant gives you +10% PE and +10% National Tax. I figured the loss you took on the colonization side would make it hard for one of the colonizers to go that way though.
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 08:11:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:14:49 AM
I've done some further investigation, and I've found that Britain's colonies produce twice the tariff income for the same good produced compared to mine, even with similar base tax values. Oh, I'm so, so fucked. :bleeding:
It's the Protestant work ethic.
Better NIs, yes.
That's only a small part of it (in hindsight I picked the wrong idea last time around). After the session, I experimented with making some changes, and the Viceroy NI didn't move me up that much in tariff income. The killer advantage of the Brits are their trade and production efficiencies, which are ways ahead of my own.
Going Protestant gives you +10% PE and +10% National Tax. I figured the loss you took on the colonization side would make it hard for one of the colonizers to go that way though.
Like I said, Protestant work ethic.
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 07:40:33 AM
Again, I don't know what you could, or should, have done differently though. Would NOT expanding really be better? Probably in some particular areas (SA), but its not like if only you had 8 less provinces in crappy SA you would be at 30 land tech like the Ottomans.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1644provinces.jpg&hash=266e1f2fb167e4ec15149c2b044c13710fba90a1)
Quick expansion is not as good as consolidation. Spending all of your money colonizing and none of it building improvements to your existing provinces is what's killing your tech. A continental European country with a plethora of manufacturies will always be higher-tech than someone who has half the world painted their color but who's provinces are all floating in the teens or low 20s in income.
But I am consolidating - just about all my provinces that are not brand new colonies or conquests are pretty maxed out in buildings and such. I don't have 90 manufactories though - nowhere near that kind of cash.
Is that what it all comes down to - spamming insane number of manufactories?
In general I try not to expand if it means I cannot pretty quickly
1. Build basic buildings one after another in whatever chunk I just grabbed, then
2. Convert whatever it is I just grabbed.
I try not to take on more than will allow me to do those things, which generally limits my grabs to chunks of 5 or so provinces at most at once. Which is fine, since more just drives infamy too high anyway.
I am beginning to think that perhaps I worry to much about infamy though.
Except that you don't have constables in quite a large amount of provinces, so...no, you don't have your stuff maxed out. And no, it isn't about spamming manufacturies at all--it's about stable, progressive growth rather than rapid expansion into a bunch of areas that will only be worth something after ~30 years. I will note that not having had an Admin-7 monarch the whole game (at least, I don't think you've had one) has hurt you a good degree, and there's rather little short of becoming a Republic that you can do about that.
In comparison to Spain, however, England might as well be in the 20th century. The Spanish have really shot themselves in the foot.
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 02:22:45 PM
I am beginning to think that perhaps I worry to much about infamy though.
If you're making a lot of your money from foreign-owned CoTs, then your infamy needs to stay low. Otherwise, ignore it up to your infamy cap.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 02:27:09 PM
Except that you don't have constables in quite a large amount of provinces, so...no, you don't have your stuff maxed out. And no, it isn't about spamming manufacturies at all--it's about stable, progressive growth rather than rapid expansion into a bunch of areas that will only be worth something after ~30 years. I will note that not having had an Admin-7 monarch the whole game (at least, I don't think you've had one) has hurt you a good degree, and there's rather little short of becoming a Republic that you can do about that.
In comparison to Spain, however, England might as well be in the 20th century. The Spanish have really shot themselves in the foot.
I have Constables all over the place, but not in provinces that are
A) low base tax, or
B) Still high revolt risk
I don't think that is what is keeping my tech down though. Actually, I am not even sure my tech IS low - I suspect yours is just ridiculously high.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 02:27:09 PM
In comparison to Spain, however, England might as well be in the 20th century. The Spanish have really shot themselves in the foot.
Tell me about it. :( Really poor planning on my part in the last session, and that graph is Exhibit A. Is there anything I can do at this point, would selling Argentina to Portugal help? Or did I just sink a large sum foolishly, and now it's too late to reverse the error?
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 02:34:04 PM
Tell me about it. :( Really poor planning on my part in the last session, and that graph is Exhibit A. Is there anything I can do at this point, would selling Argentina to Portugal help? Or did I just sink a large sum foolishly, and now it's too late to reverse the error?
I am not going to help you correct yourself very drastically at this point in the game, but I can certainly give you a pointer or two. Specifically, yes, it is definitely worth sinking the money into improving your stuff ASAP. I wouldn't sell off anything you have, though, unless it's a dirt-poor province. You need to reform your NIs (Viceroys and National Commerce Policy come to mind). Lastly, I suggest you look at your national and religious decisions. Some of those should've been paseed years ago...
Quote from: Berkut on April 08, 2010, 02:32:08 PM
I have Constables all over the place, but not in provinces that are
A) low base tax, or
B) Still high revolt risk
I don't think that is what is keeping my tech down though. Actually, I am not even sure my tech IS low - I suspect yours is just ridiculously high.
Why would you not build constables in every province? I looked at your sheet and you have several provinces that produce >2 tax/year without constables and with 0% RR. There is no reason not to have them built there.
On top of that, you have this problem :
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1644customs.jpg&hash=04fa2b3fa2991624fb5b7265eb63b13c7e97f572)
And no, your tech really isn't all that low. I am, after all, at >10 years "ahead" of tech in several areas to the point that I'm getting massive tech-investment negatives because of it.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 08, 2010, 02:38:28 PM
I am not going to help you correct yourself very drastically at this point in the game, but I can certainly give you a pointer or two. Specifically, yes, it is definitely worth sinking the money into improving your stuff ASAP. I wouldn't sell off anything you have, though, unless it's a dirt-poor province. You need to reform your NIs (Viceroys and National Commerce Policy come to mind). Lastly, I suggest you look at your national and religious decisions. Some of those should've been paseed years ago...
Been meaning to ask about that. Any decisions that are especially required, and any that are absolutely terrible?
Quote from: Solmyr on April 08, 2010, 03:43:34 PM
Been meaning to ask about that. Any decisions that are especially required, and any that are absolutely terrible?
Depends on the country far too much to decide on each and every one, but there are a few that I would pass as every country, if able, and another that's downright terrible.
The awful one is
Importation Act, which gives 6% trade efficiency and 6% trade income boost in exchange for a 4% increase of merchant cost and, the reason it's not worth a damn, 6% higher technology costs. If you have enough domestic CoTs and are a heavy Mercantilist power, it might be worth it, but generally-speaking I see that 6% tech malus as simply not worth the bonus.
Ones that I consider required that aren't nation-specific, however, are as follows :
School Establishment Act : +4% production efficiency, -3% Stability cost. Negatives being -2% tax and +3% build cost. The production bonus outweighs the tax bonus and the build cost is relatively small. This one isn't great,
per se, but I list it as required because it allows you to get...
The Education Act : +1% Prestige/year, -5% tech costs. Negatives are -3% tax income and -2 Infamy limit. I generally take anything that gives a permanent prestige boost as that directly translates into a plethora of bonuses. The negative to tax income isn't all that huge, especially if you're a colonial power--you'll be making most of your money from tariffs and trade anyway. The Infamy limit is irrelevant.
The Liquor Act : +3% tax, +4% Stability costs. A no-brainer, especially for European powers. Not open to Muslims, alas.
The Militia Act : +6% Discipline, +5% Stability cost. Discipline means you kill more of the enemy, meaning you might win more battles, etc., etc.
The Anti-Piracy Act : +1% Prestige/year, -.01 Infamy/year. The negative is that it lowers your Infamy limit and, to pass it, you need low infamy to begin with. Anything that gives +% Prestige/year is good. This bears repeating.
Anything that gives +% Prestige/year is good.
The Recruiting Act : +.2 Land Tradition/year, -10% Regiment Recruitment time, +1 shift towards Innovative, +1 shift towards Quantity, +10% Stability costs. This one I would say is a "maybe". The slider shifts are good and bad, respectively, and the Stability malus is pretty big. The reason I pass this is the extra Land Tradition--an expensive attribute until the late game. When combined with a Sergeant Major General of decent value (+.6 or higher) and the Battlefield Commissions national idea, this will guarantee your LT hovers around 60%, which will ensure you have high-quality generals. When you hit the 1630s or so and get a War College, you'll be even better off.
BTW, what's the deal with switching to a Republic? Habbaku said something ominous in the chat when I did it.
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 04:14:28 PM
BTW, what's the deal with switching to a Republic? Habbaku said something ominous in the chat when I did it.
What flavor of Republic, Administrative? I always thought that was a no-brainer.
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 04:57:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 04:14:28 PM
BTW, what's the deal with switching to a Republic? Habbaku said something ominous in the chat when I did it.
What flavor of Republic, Administrative? I always thought that was a no-brainer.
Yes, I thought the same. I finally took the plunge after my heir died, not wanting to flirt with Regency Council or worse.
Quote from: sbr on April 08, 2010, 12:31:02 AM
That was fun. I really enjoy playing this game in MP even when nothing terribly exciting happens. The start time of this game doesn't work for me as a permanent player but feel free to ask me if you need a sub. The Sunday game works better for me, I may see if there is an opening there.
Sweden might be playable in our Sunday game, it owns all of Scandinavia and is a minor colonial power. Downsides might be Russia kicking your ass and other colonials eyeing your colonies. :P
As Russia I have kicked Swedens ass several times, but I don't think I've taken anything from them other than Lithuania when they annexed it. That was rather handy of them, in fact.
BTW, can I get an edit for Bogota? I seem to have the design flaw with unknown good produced that Berkut described earlier.
Yeah, I noticed that as I was clicking through your stuff a couple of days ago. We'll fix it.
I've been reading G.J. Meyers The Tudors recently, and it really brings to life some of the most unrealistic aspects of EU3.
The first is money. Everyone has too damn much of it. As Russia I was able to send 40,000 soldiers across the Ottoman Empire to fight in Germany without minting a single penny. I did not have to raise war taxes, or make any changes to my spending.
In reality, the English Crown's income was about 200,000 pounts a year during the reign of Henry VIII after he had seized the Church's land and property. A three-month campaign to capture Boulogne cost the Crown 586,000 pounds. Defending the city cost the Crown 426,000 pounds. Overall, military campaigns that accomplished essentially nothing cost the Crown 2.2 million pounds over 5 years, and that does not factor in any other expeditures. An examination of any of the wars during the period of EU3 would reveal that money was always in desperately short supply, and a constant source of worry to the monarchy.
Perhaps the game would be less interesting if it were difficult to find the finances necessary to go to war, but I think that it might actually be more fun. For one thing, not every war would be a total war (one of the things that annoys me most about EU3 MP), and it would make managing a kingdom more challenging, and thus probably more exciting.
The next issue is related: the ease of fighting. Not only is it easy to fund armies, it is also easy to keep them intact. Attrition never seems to be a real problem, and there is almost no need to ever raise mercenaries. It is too easy to amass a enormous army and keep it intact (unless it "poofs" on you in battle, of course). Just look at Henry V's Agincourt campaign. It was a meticulously planned and financed campaign, with a good deal of attention paid to supply. Yet simply taking Harfleur cost Henry half his army. Without even fighting a battle, attrition had reduced his army by 50%.
Finally, rebels never matter a damn, unless you're very weak anyway. Probably because of the difficulties funding and mainting armies, they were far more dangerous historically. Even Henry VIII, who had made himself second only to God in England, was almost unseated by the Pilgrimage of Grace. The Dutch revolt consumed enormous amounts of Spain's manpower and resources, and they never extinguished it. In the game, rebels are probably too frequent, and too weak. Has anyone ever had to compromise with a group of rebels in HTTT?
Anyway, I am done rambling for now. These are simply some things that I have been finding annoying in EU3 so far.
Well, that's the last time I post my concerns about EU3, and back it up with facts. :P
Quote from: Kleves on April 11, 2010, 09:38:38 PM
Well, that's the last time I post my concerns about EU3, and back it up with facts. :P
Yeah, drop the fact thing, we don't do that here.
I was too stunned by your attention-span reaching new heights to respond.
So,
I am stuck working this Wed till 9pm so only person here I can think to ask to sub is sbr.
Or am I forgetting anyone else?
I could, and would sub but for one minor problem. My daughter will need to be picked up from school after play practice; it should be about 2 hours after the game here starts. I could potentially have her find a ride but would feel pretty weird having someone go out of their way so I can sit at home and play a game.
I should not be gone for more than 15-20 minutes but I don't know exactly when I will need to get her. Wednesday is their final dress rehearsal before opening on Thursday so they will have to stay until they are completely done and I wouldn't get more notice than a phone call saying 'come now.'
If there is no one else to play for kat, and we can work something out I will definitely play. If there is someone else who can/will play then go for it.
I am sure that we can accommodate you, if you're willing to sub.
It looks like she will be able to find a ride from a friend so I should be good for the entire session, there is still a chacne i may need a small break if things fall through though.
katmai any guidance for me?
Quote from: sbr on April 13, 2010, 10:10:45 PM
It looks like she will be able to find a rise from a friend so I should be good for the entire session, there is still a chacne i may need a small break if things fall through though.
katmai any guidance for me?
I'll send a pm with directions.
Katmai's directions :
Remain passive.
Don't expand too much.
Surrender at the first sign of trouble. :frog:
I strive to be realistic!
Ok, 2 quick questions:
1) 8:30 Eastern start time, right?
2) HPZE?
Quote from: ulmont on April 14, 2010, 03:57:30 PM
Ok, 2 quick questions:
1) 8:30 Eastern start time, right?
2) HPZE?
Yes, that is correct.
Checksum should be AIDS
So still working till 11pm local time (2hrs) so thanks again sbr for subbing.
Look forward to hearing what all happened this session.
There was one quick war, which divested the Turks of Egypt, some of the Balkans, and the Crimea. The Turks then retook Alexandria, which caused another coalition to form and to threaten war. That situation was defused when the Turks ceded Alexandria and another province back to the Mamelukes.
Executive summary:
Ottomans got trimmed a little, losing some provinces in the Balkans, Crimea to Russians, and most of their presence in Egypt.
Great Britain continued its expansion into Asia.
Scandianavia expanded into Northern Germany.
HRE expanded into Balkans and Hungary.
France? I don't recall what they did.
Russia got a really big font, and raped Hungary some.
Spain settled down and started pulling itself out of the mess brought on by over-expansion.
I didn't do anything too exciting. I colonized a province or two in Africa, another one or two in Brazil, colonized all of Madagascar (got a gold province :showoff: there) pushed west across southern North America and grabbed Bali_Lombard in the South Pacific. Upgraded the navy a bit as well too.
I had a hell of a time keeping explorers alive but the shitty King is still on the throne. His 8-8-3 Heir is now ~45, I am sure he will die before his dad.
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 12:10:09 AM
France? I don't recall what they did.
I'll take "Didn't expand, sat on their ass and paid to join a coalition they didn't get anything out of" for $200, Alex.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 12:10:09 AM
France? I don't recall what they did.
I'll take "Didn't expand, sat on their ass and paid to join a coalition they didn't get anything out of" for $200, Alex.
I'll take following orders for $400.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1670econ.jpg&hash=9ce52691676f1ac3dc74a349d515dc75b67804c4)
Following orders is right. They do whatever Spain and England tell them to in exchange for...wait, did they actually shrink their economy, despite not having a big war?
I am immensely amused that Portugal is back on the list, by the way. For those watching at home, they don't hold a single European province.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 12:21:34 AM
...wait, did they actually shrink their economy, despite not having a big war?
Nope France's economy grew by 9d. :)
Quote from: sbr on April 15, 2010, 12:20:00 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 12:10:09 AM
France? I don't recall what they did.
I'll take "Didn't expand, sat on their ass and paid to join a coalition they didn't get anything out of" for $200, Alex.
I'll take following orders for $400.
I didn't want any of your stinky OE lands. And thanks sbr for doing a good job.
I took a beating in trade. I focused on getting Land and Government techs up to speed and Production was choice #3, that caused Trade to fall even more behind. That combined with the atrocious monarch and the strange loss in prestige made trading very hard. I went from making 84 per month in trade at session start to making 57 at session end. :Embarrass:
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2010, 12:35:59 AM
I didn't want any of your stinky OE lands. And thanks sbr for doing a good job.
So why invest yourself in a war you knew others were going to fight for you?
Today is the day I learned about trade. Today is also the day I realized how much money I was giving up by being such a poor trader. I wish I learned my lesson a little sooner, before I dug myself into a tech hole.
I would have rather you waited a day to learn that, you made me look bad. :(
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 12:49:40 AM
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2010, 12:35:59 AM
I didn't want any of your stinky OE lands. And thanks sbr for doing a good job.
So why invest yourself in a war you knew others were going to fight for you?
They were scared you were an 800lb gorilla.
That doesn't explain why you would participate.
:huh:
no it really does.
They asked for my help as they figured their navies would be able to blockade but weren't sure if HRE land forces would be able to take you on so asked for my help.
This was all before Russia signed on.
The original proposal of lands to take had me asking for Syria, but didn't want that as would just lead me into another war 1v1 most likely.
That chart cannot be right - Habbaku assured us after the war that he was now "weaker than the HRE" and how the HRE was going to run rampant without him to stop him.
So there is no way that the Ottomans can possibly still have that much more income than the HRE.
Could someone post the correct chart?
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 12:54:28 AM
Today is the day I learned about trade. Today is also the day I realized how much money I was giving up by being such a poor trader. I wish I learned my lesson a little sooner, before I dug myself into a tech hole.
Oh yeah, you and your 900 income are in such a terrible hole. You are doomed.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 08:01:36 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 12:54:28 AM
Today is the day I learned about trade. Today is also the day I realized how much money I was giving up by being such a poor trader. I wish I learned my lesson a little sooner, before I dug myself into a tech hole.
Oh yeah, you and your 900 income are in such a terrible hole. You are doomed.
I'm in a tech hole, not in a hole in general.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 07:55:35 AM
That chart cannot be right - Habbaku assured us after the war that he was now "weaker than the HRE" and how the HRE was going to run rampant without him to stop him.
So there is no way that the Ottomans can possibly still have that much more income than the HRE.
Could someone post the correct chart?
The HRE = Paper Tiger. :(
I am a little surprised that Ottomans have more income than HRE. I know Habs is good, and the Middle East is not garbage, but still.
It looks like, even with the loss of the Mamelukes and the Balkans, the Ottoman economy still grew by 130d. Whereas Russia's economy, despite my expansion, grew by only 90d. :glare:
When I get home tonight, I'll analyze the save extensively. I'm really stumped as to where the economic dynamism is coming from for the Ottomans. Maybe I'll learn another thing or two about EU3. I know we didn't completely bend the Ottomans over when we gang-banged him, but we should've put a little hurt on him. :hmm:
I think it comes from him owning the save.
I have no idea what I did to grow my income by 50%.
Despite DGs claims that I "expanded" in Asia, I actually conquered a grand total of 2 provinces, both from a war that was declared on me.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 09:41:11 AM
I have no idea what I did to grow my income by 50%.
Despite DGs claims that I "expanded" in Asia, I actually conquered a grand total of 2 provinces, both from a war that was declared on me.
Hmm, I really thought you did, when I saw all those wars down there, but I didn't keep count. Of course, you did get 8 provinces in India. It wasn't aggressive expansion, but it sure was expansion.
Did you expand by some other means, such as colonizing? I recall seeing your province counter graph make a steady increase.
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 09:27:45 AM
When I get home tonight, I'll analyze the save extensively. I'm really stumped as to where the economic dynamism is coming from for the Ottomans.
Habbaku is monopolizing a richer-than-hell CoT in Asia, and also has an insane production efficiency (Yay, Smithian Economics!).
When combined with the fact that he's taken a lot of useful decisions, and has a lot of territory, it's no surprise.
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 09:41:11 AM
I have no idea what I did to grow my income by 50%.
Despite DGs claims that I "expanded" in Asia, I actually conquered a grand total of 2 provinces, both from a war that was declared on me.
Hmm, I really thought you did, when I saw all those wars down there, but I didn't keep count. Of course, you did get 8 provinces in India. It wasn't aggressive expansion, but it sure was expansion.
Did you expand by some other means, such as colonizing? I recall seeing your province counter graph make a steady increase.
Yeah, continuing into the crappy American west. Not sure if I am just gimping my tech even more with that though.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 09:52:10 AM
Yeah, continuing into the crappy American west. Not sure if I am just gimping my tech even more with that though.
Probably a little bit, but probably not too badly. As far as I understand it, the trick with colonizing is to not do it too quickly, rather than not doing it too much. You have to make sure that you have the modifiers in place to make good use of the colony, otherwise it's an inefficient burn of cash and tech speed. IMO, in your situation, colonizing is much less of a folly than it was for me 50 years ago in Argentina.
Also, guys, can we officially set the end time to 12:30? I assumed it was 12:30, as I'm used to 4 hour games, and would vastly prefer not to end at 1:00.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 09:41:11 AM
I have no idea what I did to grow my income by 50%.
Despite DGs claims that I "expanded" in Asia, I actually conquered a grand total of 2 provinces, both from a war that was declared on me.
This is where the colonizers really start to see the benefits. You had nice increases in every income category across the board. You had ~20 provinces in the Americas and India core, helping your tax base. Colonial trade good prices are sky-rocketing helping both your tariffs and trade and your merchants were extremely busy.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 07:55:35 AM
That chart cannot be right - Habbaku assured us after the war that he was now "weaker than the HRE" and how the HRE was going to run rampant without him to stop him.
So there is no way that the Ottomans can possibly still have that much more income than the HRE.
:o Could it be that the sheer size of one's economy is not the sole determinant of power in this game?
By your rubric, Spain is poised to conquer the world, and we all know that's laughably untrue.
Quote from: Kleves on April 15, 2010, 09:14:52 AM
It looks like, even with the loss of the Mamelukes and the Balkans, the Ottoman economy still grew by 130d. Whereas Russia's economy, despite my expansion, grew by only 90d. :glare:
There's a lesson here.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 11:12:05 AM
Quote from: Kleves on April 15, 2010, 09:14:52 AM
It looks like, even with the loss of the Mamelukes and the Balkans, the Ottoman economy still grew by 130d. Whereas Russia's economy, despite my expansion, grew by only 90d. :glare:
There's a lesson here.
You should have lost more provinces. :yes:
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 07:55:35 AM
That chart cannot be right - Habbaku assured us after the war that he was now "weaker than the HRE" and how the HRE was going to run rampant without him to stop him.
So there is no way that the Ottomans can possibly still have that much more income than the HRE.
:o Could it be that the sheer size of one's economy is not the sole determinant of power in this game?
Not at all, but it is certainly an indicator, and since you had more income before, and *still* have more income, and nothing else has fundamentally changed...I suspect that your claims of being beat down are just a tad bit over-stated.
I know who I would put my money on in a straight up fight between the two of you.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 11:10:03 AM
By your rubric, Spain is poised to conquer the world, and we all know that's laughably untrue.
We all know that, but did you really have to add "laughably"? :(
What do the tech levels look like?
Quote from: sbr on April 15, 2010, 11:09:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 09:41:11 AM
I have no idea what I did to grow my income by 50%.
Despite DGs claims that I "expanded" in Asia, I actually conquered a grand total of 2 provinces, both from a war that was declared on me.
This is where the colonizers really start to see the benefits. You had nice increases in every income category across the board. You had ~20 provinces in the Americas and India core, helping your tax base. Colonial trade good prices are sky-rocketing helping both your tariffs and trade and your merchants were extremely busy.
Good point - I did have a slew of new cores this session. Didn't realize what a difference that made though.
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2010, 03:05:42 AM
:huh:
no it really does.
They asked for my help as they figured their navies would be able to blockade but weren't sure if HRE land forces would be able to take you on so asked for my help.
:huh: No, it really doesn't.
They being afraid of me being too strong doesn't explain why
you would join a war to pare me down. Well, unless you're just going to do what everyone else tells you to, then it makes perfect sense. What did you gain from joining in, exactly? Russia and the HRE both had big land gains and even Britain got a new island for their troubles. You and Spain gained literally zip from helping them.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2010, 03:05:42 AM
:huh:
no it really does.
They asked for my help as they figured their navies would be able to blockade but weren't sure if HRE land forces would be able to take you on so asked for my help.
:huh: No, it really doesn't.
They being afraid of me being too strong doesn't explain why you would join a war to pare me down. Well, unless you're just going to do what everyone else tells you to, then it makes perfect sense. What did you gain from joining in, exactly? Russia and the HRE both had big land gains and even Britain got a new island for their troubles. You and Spain gained literally zip from helping them.
What did you gain from slapping Viking down?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1670tech.jpg&hash=ac306e37170daa314d92a856eccf65b3cea3a1a2)
Quote from: DGuller on April 15, 2010, 12:42:47 PM
What did you gain from slapping Viking down?
You can't be serious.
Total tech levels:
Ottomans: 156
Holy Roman Empire: 149
Great Britain: 149
France: 141
Scandinavia: 139
Spain: 133
Russia: 121
We need to take more provinces away from the Ottomans until their tech levels drop!
I assume we will be patching with the new beta patch released today (check other game thread for link).
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: sbr on April 15, 2010, 11:09:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 09:41:11 AM
I have no idea what I did to grow my income by 50%.
Despite DGs claims that I "expanded" in Asia, I actually conquered a grand total of 2 provinces, both from a war that was declared on me.
This is where the colonizers really start to see the benefits. You had nice increases in every income category across the board. You had ~20 provinces in the Americas and India core, helping your tax base. Colonial trade good prices are sky-rocketing helping both your tariffs and trade and your merchants were extremely busy.
Good point - I did have a slew of new cores this session. Didn't realize what a difference that made though.
You only get 10% of a non-core province's adjusted tax. Once it goes core you get 100%; there are still some nasty modifiers to that (-90% Distant overseas for one) but those colonies coring is a big help.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 01:24:25 PM
Total tech levels:
Ottomans: 156
Holy Roman Empire: 149
Great Britain: 149
France: 141
Scandinavia: 139
Spain: 133
Russia: 121
We need to take more provinces away from the Ottomans until their tech levels drop!
:pinch:
I knew I was behind, but I never put an overall number on how much I was behind. Very behind, it turns out. If Ottomans from now on stop researching completely, then it will only take me about 40 years to catch up. Woo-fucking-hoo. :(
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 01:27:47 PM
I assume we will be patching with the new beta patch released today (check other game thread for link).
It sounds like the new patch does some pretty brutal things to the HRE if they have any non-core provinces in the Empire. As a completely neutral observer I would wait and see what these changes do before imposing them retroactively on an existing Empire.
From here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471473
Quotemultiprovince annexation and +0.25BB -1%prestige /year for non-core HRE provinces !!!
I see the point when slowing down the player, but the AI can't handle it. In my current game, they go overboard with annexations - which in itself makes their BB skyrocket, but with the new malus, they hardly get a BB bonus and tend to inflate and burst. It's not blobs anymore. It's balloons.
QuoteUnlawful Imperial Territory is a swift kick in the balls when playing as a HRE member. It makes it pretty much unfeasible to hold more than one non-cored HRE province at any time, since you always have to brace for these damn DIP 3 rulers. I guess this is working as designed, though. What I don't see anyone doing with this in place is forming Germany as you have to conquer, own and core nine provinces one at a time taking 450 years (unless you luck out and get a lucky core in a 422 year game (and even then, you'd just be a patchwork of cities all over the place calling itself Germany). Defending the HRE might become a little more difficult now as you can't expand on the expense of your member states, probably also WAD.
Quote from: sbr on April 15, 2010, 01:35:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 01:27:47 PM
I assume we will be patching with the new beta patch released today (check other game thread for link).
It sounds like the new patch does some pretty brutal things to the HRE if they have any non-core provinces in the Empire. As a completely neutral observer I would wait and see what these changes do before imposing them retroactively on an existing Empire.
Eh, I'm ok moving forward.
Quote from: sbr on April 15, 2010, 01:35:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 01:27:47 PM
I assume we will be patching with the new beta patch released today (check other game thread for link).
It sounds like the new patch does some pretty brutal things to the HRE if they have any non-core provinces in the Empire. As a completely neutral observer I would wait and see what these changes do before imposing them retroactively on an existing Empire.
Something had to be done to the Imperial Liberation CB abuse. The whole concept of the emperor annexing pieces of the HRE for next to no cost, just because those pieces happened to be annexed by some other minor empire member earlier, is ridiculous. The emperor could blob up to something crazy in no time at all. No way would the members of the empire stand for it.
Quote from: ulmont on April 15, 2010, 01:40:37 PM
Quote from: sbr on April 15, 2010, 01:35:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 01:27:47 PM
I assume we will be patching with the new beta patch released today (check other game thread for link).
It sounds like the new patch does some pretty brutal things to the HRE if they have any non-core provinces in the Empire. As a completely neutral observer I would wait and see what these changes do before imposing them retroactively on an existing Empire.
Eh, I'm ok moving forward.
It shouldn't be an issue in our game in any way. We actually don't have HRE as an institution anymore, Viking took care of it. We only have HRE as a country.
The solution is to release HRE territories that are not your cores as vassals.
So, when should one switch to a Republic, and what is that decision based on?
Right now I can go to Const. Monarchy, which for me is certainly better than Admin Monarchy, but should I consider going to Admin Republic instead?
I am guessing not - since Admin repub still has the -3 Cent limit, which I would like to get rid of, but on the other hand, I am really tired of these shite rulers.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 01:24:25 PM
We need to take more provinces away from the Ottomans until their tech levels drop!
I have some Bedouin grain provinces for sale.
Quote from: Berkut on April 15, 2010, 03:18:55 PM
So, when should one switch to a Republic, and what is that decision based on?
Right now I can go to Const. Monarchy, which for me is certainly better than Admin Monarchy, but should I consider going to Admin Republic instead?
I am guessing not - since Admin repub still has the -3 Cent limit, which I would like to get rid of, but on the other hand, I am really tired of these shite rulers.
You have pretty much boiled down what the decision is in your own post. What bonuses do you prefer? What national decisions would you like? I personally prefer Constitutional Monarchy for a good while as it means I never have to worry about my Prestige dropping below 100% and I get the awesome national decision that gives -2 RR, +1 magistrate, +1 Prestige on top of it. Well, that and the faster/unrestrained slider shifts.
Republics are generally pretty good if you want more control over your leader, but I tend to stick with monarchies for the decisions and other bonuses.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 15, 2010, 12:21:34 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1670econ.jpg&hash=9ce52691676f1ac3dc74a349d515dc75b67804c4)
Following orders is right. They do whatever Spain and England tell them to in exchange for...wait, did they actually shrink their economy, despite not having a big war?
Looking pretty good Guller. What's your manpower at?
Looks like we're quitting our game but by 1715 i had 1250 income, 75k manpower, and 235 big ships. :cool:
And I didn't get immense, too bad we're quitting but I think the BOP is broken in our game any way. I need to get into the next iteration of this game..... How many weeks you guys have left you think?
I think it's like 92k or something.
Game probably has 3-4 sessions left, though that can change depending on how big the wars get.
My income should be about 16-17 more. I realized that I didn't have enough ships to have my tariffs at 100%, so after I did that, it changed my income big time.
We are all patching for this week, right?
Another patch?
Lets all make sure we are patched and ready to go, shall we?
I had the same problem others reported, with getting a different checksum, then exiting and restarting and getting the correct one.
What time is game start? 8:00 or 8:30?
It's 8:30, and end time is now 12:30, IIRC.
Alright. I should be there in time, might be 10-15 mins late.
Doctors appointment but should be done in time.
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2010, 02:58:20 PM
It's 8:30, and end time is now 12:30, IIRC.
FYI, I found out about 10 minutes ago I have a conference call to do at midnight (say it with me now: Fuck the West Coast) so will be distracted from that point forward and possibly drop (the AI can't screw too much up in 30 minutes, can it?)
:bleeding:
Still out hope to be home ASAP (20 muns or so depending on evening traffic)
:bleeding:
Wow, sure am glad I made sure to set aside time to get started at 830!
Hey you have kids to take care of, I have a father who is in town and has appointments.
:(
Quote from: katmai on April 21, 2010, 08:08:53 PM
Hey you have kids to take care of, I have a father who is in town and has appointments.
:(
Indeed. Still sucks that 6 of us are sitting here twiddling our thumbs though, 40 minutes after start time.
Now imagine instead of being at home you are a doctors office and you are me.
Quote from: katmai on April 21, 2010, 08:16:14 PM
Now imagine instead of being at home you are a doctors office and you are me.
You are a doctors office?
Doesn't make sitting here any better. Should we just call it, or are you going to show at some point?
I'm at home restarting pc as it's not recognizing the wireless connection.
I think my income might have actually gone down during that session.
I know mine did. I lost most of my prestige at the very end of the session due to the cores in the Balkans being lost. My infamy is also too high so I'm losing a lot of trade income due to being competed out. That should be corrected next session...
Here's the file :
http://www.mediafire.com/?2yn1mkiyomn
Quote from: Berkut on April 21, 2010, 11:43:46 PM
I think my income might have actually gone down during that session.
I've been very surprised to see that. I expected you to get even to me in that department by about this point in the game, and certainly not go backwards relative to me.
Well, I see one big mistake you made that accounts for a lot it.
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2010, 11:56:47 PM
Well, I see one big mistake you made that accounts for a lot it.
Do share.
Hey Russia, it's nice to see you're half-retarded. 5 magistrates and you're not building canals or post offices anywhere. Good job. You wanna give me Karelia and Kexholm? Finns need to be united with their brothers until they become Swedish.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 12:17:22 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2010, 11:56:47 PM
Well, I see one big mistake you made that accounts for a lot it.
Do share.
Hint : It's yellow-gold and sits on the northern half of a subcontinent.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 12:17:22 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2010, 11:56:47 PM
Well, I see one big mistake you made that accounts for a lot it.
Do share.
Adam Smith. Why in the world would you not take that NI?
Ahhh, isn't that the one that increases production?
My production is a tiny fraction of my income. My income comes from taxes, tariffs, and trade.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 22, 2010, 12:17:39 AM
Hey Russia, it's nice to see you're half-retarded. 5 magistrates and you're not building canals or post offices anywhere. Good job. You wanna give me Karelia and Kexholm? Finns need to be united with their brothers until they become Swedish.
Only half-retarded? :yeahright:
In any event, I did not see all of these provinces suffering from a lack of mail and gondolas. If they exist, I will attempt to remedy this deficiency. Though it does not matter much, because the vast majority of Russians are unable to read, or to operate anything as complex as a gondola...
Now, why is Constitutional Monarchy better than Administrative Monarchy? Is it simply the improved prestige, or is there something else?
Quote from: Kleves on April 22, 2010, 08:01:18 AM
Now, why is Constitutional Monarchy better than Administrative Monarchy? Is it simply the improved prestige, or is there something else?
Removes the constraint on centralization as well.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 08:04:36 AM
Removes the constraint on centralization as well.
Very interestink. :hmm:
That reminds me - I switched to Con Mon this turn, so that nailed my prod tech some more as well.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 07:55:13 AM
Ahhh, isn't that the one that increases production?
My production is a tiny fraction of my income. My income comes from taxes, tariffs, and trade.
Tariffs = production = tariffs...
Doh! I thought this would only effect the actual number in the "Production" line of my income statement - are you saying it also drives the Tariffs line? Damn, that is huge then. Time to take a -3 Stab hit!
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 07:55:13 AM
Ahhh, isn't that the one that increases production?
My production is a tiny fraction of my income. My income comes from taxes, tariffs, and trade.
Yes, and where is your tariff income coming from?
So you also took decisions that reduced your production efficiency? :pinch:
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2010, 09:22:12 AM
So you also took decisions that reduced your production efficiency? :pinch:
I didn't take any decisions this session. My monarch is too shitty to make decisions.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 09:23:37 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2010, 09:22:12 AM
So you also took decisions that reduced your production efficiency? :pinch:
..... My monarch is too shitty to make decisions.
Too bad it doesn't work like that in RL. :lol:
Well, at least it is good to know that my appaling income is fixable!
I also took a 16 point infamy hit in that war with Portugal - apparently the colonialism thing is only applicable to adjacent colonies! WTF is THAT! The Portuguese colonies that were adjacent were shite!
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 09:55:00 AM
I also took a 16 point infamy hit in that war with Portugal
Only 16? Pussy.
Quote from: ulmont on April 22, 2010, 09:59:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 09:55:00 AM
I also took a 16 point infamy hit in that war with Portugal
Only 16? Pussy.
Not all of us can just hole up in our home CoTs flinging shit at any of the other monkeys that come around...
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 10:01:30 AM
Not all of us can just hole up in our home CoTs flinging shit at any of the other monkeys that come around...
I'll have you know HRE merchants have been seen as far afield as Hanyang and Bayougoula...
No Stats Reports?
I feel better now - my prod tech is still 29, so I couldn't take Smithian Economics.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 10:40:25 PM
I feel better now - my prod tech is still 29, so I couldn't take Smithian Economics.
You shouldn't feel that much better. Most of your other techs are at 34, so you could've easily gotten to Prod Tech 30 if you wanted to. In fact, I got it in half a year when I played GB. I got an immediate boost in income even after taking into account a -3 stab hit after changing a NI.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 10:40:25 PM
I feel better now - my prod tech is still 29, so I couldn't take Smithian Economics.
I was at 25 prod tech and 24 trade tech (I think) before the start of the session, so I powered both of those to max and got Smithian Econ and Scientific Revolution. Now I'm catching up to everybody and I'm actually ahead of some people.
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2010, 11:08:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 10:40:25 PM
I feel better now - my prod tech is still 29, so I couldn't take Smithian Economics.
You shouldn't feel that much better. Most of your other techs are at 34, so you could've easily gotten to Prod Tech 30 if you wanted to. In fact, I got it in half a year when I played GB. I got an immediate boost in income even after taking into account a -3 stab hit after changing a NI.
Meh, you don't know what you don't know. I will get it shortly, in any case.
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 11:40:50 PM
Meh, you don't know what you don't know. I will get it shortly, in any case.
But now that you know what you didn't know, you should feel really bad about not knowing it before. :P
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2010, 11:56:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 11:40:50 PM
Meh, you don't know what you don't know. I will get it shortly, in any case.
But now that you know what you didn't know, you should feel really bad about not knowing it before. :P
OK, I feel really bad.
Quote from: Berkut on April 23, 2010, 07:21:55 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2010, 11:56:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 11:40:50 PM
Meh, you don't know what you don't know. I will get it shortly, in any case.
But now that you know what you didn't know, you should feel really bad about not knowing it before. :P
OK, I feel really bad.
That's all I wanted to hear.
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2010, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 23, 2010, 07:21:55 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2010, 11:56:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 22, 2010, 11:40:50 PM
Meh, you don't know what you don't know. I will get it shortly, in any case.
But now that you know what you didn't know, you should feel really bad about not knowing it before. :P
OK, I feel really bad.
That's all I wanted to hear.
I guess I'll need to find someone to take my frustration out on.
Who is the designated "running away with the game" target these days?
Quote from: Berkut on April 23, 2010, 08:35:22 AM
I guess I'll need to find someone to take my frustration out on.
Who is the designated "running away with the game" target these days?
Spain.
Well, that's not what I wanted to hear.
But Spain has a bigger fleet than I do, so I cannot fight them, unfortunately.
Quote from: Berkut on April 23, 2010, 09:13:23 AM
But Spain has a bigger fleet than I do, so I cannot fight them, unfortunately.
Great Britain running in fear of the Spanish Armada? :lmfao:
Indeed. It is quite sad, I know.
Habbuku tells me it is either Spain or HRE.
Why is everyone afraid of Spain? I'm everyone's friend, I'm keeping a lot of the rich provinces safe from non-dysfunctional powers.
Scandinavia's navy is slowly building up. I think sometime soon I'll be able to ally with the Jolly Brits and we shall take Spain down a notch. Wot wot.
Shit. I just realized I'll be out of town when this week's session rolls around - probably somewhere near Asshole, Alabama.
Anyone want to sub the HRE? Sbr?
Quote from: ulmont on April 25, 2010, 05:55:47 PM
Shit. I just realized I'll be out of town when this week's session rolls around - probably somewhere near Asshole, Alabama.
Anyone want to sub the HRE? Sbr?
I think I should be able to do that, I will confirm this evening with the kids to make sure I am not forgetting something.
Looks like I am available to play on Wednesday so I will sub HRE for ulmont if needed.
Awesome. :thumbsup:
Quote from: sbr on April 27, 2010, 12:38:48 AM
Looks like I am available to play on Wednesday so I will sub HRE for ulmont if needed.
Thanks a million, sbr. I'll think fondly of you as I drive by Scipio's house.
Katmai sightings? Anyone?
I don't suppose anyone wants to sub for him?
Well, France is the new Russia.
Seems like the Ottomans are the new Ottomans, back to their old crazy super expansionist ways.
Yep, sorry about that. Figured I'd get up to parity with Britain and the HRE again. I should probably have asked permission first?
I sense a very large war looming.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 29, 2010, 10:54:54 AM
I sense a very large war looming.
Yeah, the Ottomans will probably go after some more AI nations.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1728econ.jpg&hash=7cda82d3cc8c8a115df5f876b51b4788b53e9976)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1728tech.jpg&hash=d8144a05d19e77d20ee74931092dcc704fa58b00)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1728army.jpg&hash=966d936ee634102a867e16a462dae271c3859ffa)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1728navy.jpg&hash=5621e86471fcb6adf9ff73c7e0d4558721d4ae6f)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2F1728provinces.jpg&hash=4e0196152b41b494952af08cf43a9c902dd20792)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa313%2FHabbaku%2Fboots.gif&hash=c8e4b1d14492810fe3b6a5b302897a221c46aa7d)
Wow, France went right into the shitter, didn't they?
I really should have joined in on the Franceraping. I had two different "gain core" events, and one left over from before, and all three of the provinces I got cores on were shit.
I NEED A SUBSTITUTE PLAYER FOR AUSTRIA THIS SUNDAY.
Preferably not Habbaku's brother because I need someone who is willing to keep him in his place :P
Quote from: Berkut on April 29, 2010, 10:56:50 AM
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 29, 2010, 10:54:54 AM
I sense a very large war looming.
Yeah, the Ottomans will probably go after some more AI nations.
Speaking of which, their infamy is gigoontic.
What all did he take this time? Mamlukes?
Mamlukes and most of North Africa. Both of which he previously promised to leave alone.
Sure I did.
And the Mamelukes are still very much in existence, thank you.
Wow, nice income guller.
Quote from: Alcibiades on April 29, 2010, 03:16:40 PM
Wow, nice income guller.
I discovered the secret of ... monopolies.
Quote from: DGuller on April 29, 2010, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Alcibiades on April 29, 2010, 03:16:40 PM
Wow, nice income guller.
I discovered the secret of ... monopolies.
Yeah, I am thinking Free Trade is the suckers move. Yeah, I get tons of merchants that I have to manage while everyone else holes up in their monopolized COTs!
Free Trade is for the Dutch. Anyone with >3-4 centers under their control should probably go Mercantilist.
Free trade is good early game but once all of the CoTs are player owned you aren't likely to get into them even with full free tarde.
Great. Habs, make sure you modify the save game and move to me to full Mercantilism then.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 29, 2010, 03:32:16 PM
Free Trade is for the Dutch. Anyone with >3-4 centers under their control should probably go Mercantilist.
So I did manage to convince you about that.
Quote from: Tamas on April 29, 2010, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 29, 2010, 03:32:16 PM
Free Trade is for the Dutch. Anyone with >3-4 centers under their control should probably go Mercantilist.
So I did manage to convince you about that.
:huh:
Quote from: Habbaku on April 29, 2010, 04:01:55 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 29, 2010, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 29, 2010, 03:32:16 PM
Free Trade is for the Dutch. Anyone with >3-4 centers under their control should probably go Mercantilist.
So I did manage to convince you about that.
:huh:
In our last game I told how mercantilism reign supreme when you have several CoTs of your own and you were all "free trade rulez"
Sorry guys all I can say is
Location scouting for film three hours from town
Stephen King
& Kurt Russell
Quote from: Tamas on April 30, 2010, 12:38:52 AM
In our last game I told how mercantilism reign supreme when you have several CoTs of your own and you were all "free trade rulez"
I fail to see how my statement that "free trade rulez" is made any less relevant by the fact that mercantilism is useful when you own several CoTs. If you do not have several CoTs, then free trade does "rulez." If you do, then mercantilism is generally better--especially if you're a high-Infamy country.
:rolleyes: you generally was against mercantilism then. It's okay not even you can figure out all the stuff right from the get-go :P
:huh: Generally-speaking, mercantilism is not the way to go. You stand to gain far more from being free trade and spamming 5 merchants in every CoT while keeping your Infamy low than you do monopolizing one or two centers.
So, who's playing France now?
I say we start over. 1399.
I'm game for that. Presumably, we'd have the same group minus Katmai plus Alci and SBR, right? That leaves us with 8, which is a pretty good number.
If no one is opposed, I suggest we list our preferences for nation. My own is to take Russia.
Golden Horde!
And I think we could get Ed as well.
Why start over?
Because I am too dominant to really make continuing interesting.
Quote from: DGuller on April 30, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Why start over?
Know anyone that's game for taking over France at this point?
Quote from: DGuller on April 30, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Why start over?
Yeah, we don't really have a winner, like in the other game, nor is it so unbalanced that there is no point in continuing.
I don't think I can commit to being a regular in a new Wednesday game. As long as I am unemployed it works out alright but the game start time is too early in the evening for me to commit to something this long term. I am open to possibly being a sub when needed though.
The issue is France. Katmai seems like he can't really commit, and I doubt we will find anyone to take them over.
So that means they stay AI. If they stay AI, then the game is going to end up in the last few sessions with those of us adjacent to them tearing them apart. Which is fine, but not a very satisfying way to end the game.
I am ok with continuing, if that is what people actually want to do, but the game seems kind of anti-climatic at this point. It will still be fun though.
I agree that there is little point in continuing without human France, since sooner or later the game will turn into a race to partition France. However, I don't see why we have to give up on finding a player for France before we even started looking.
I will be able to play for next three weds without any problems...take that back i might not be able to start this next wed till 8:45pm.
I will take France.
If we start over, I call not-bitch. I don't wanna play Sweden again. I would like to play Russia.