Since the old one vanished in the nether like everything else - it behooves me to recreate another thread devoted to our beloved show.
G.
The shark is jumped.
The official position of the New Languish is that Boomer and Starbuck are men.
BSG ended after New Caprica.
Remember people, last episode is aired over 2 weeks and is 3 hours long.
They really lost me sometime in season 3. They should have stuck with a less mystical storyline.
Quote from: Grallon
Since the old one vanished in the nether like everything else - it behooves me to recreate another thread devoted to our beloved show.
Maybe the old one is on a resurrection ship being artificially aged until the time is right for it to resurface? ;)
Last episode sucked. I want some space battles. Haven't had any good space battles in 2 seasons.
Space battles?
What a neanderthal.
Battle Star Galactica is not about space battles - it is about profound and insightful views into the human condition and the careful and considered character development of complex personalities.
Has anyone else been incredibly dissapointed with the job they did with Lee Adama? What a fucking tool he is. He is the Wesley Crusher of BSG.
I bought season 1 & 2 on dvd yesterday. Watching the old episodes makes me sad.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:26:45 AM
Space battles?
What a neanderthal.
Battle Star Galactica is not about space battles - it is about profound and insightful views into the human condition and the careful and considered character development of complex personalities.
Has anyone else been incredibly dissapointed with the job they did with Lee Adama? What a fucking tool he is. He is the Wesley Crusher of BSG.
But he is so damn fine. :drool:
I try to watch this show but it doesn't make any damn sense to me sometimes! I guess it doesn't help that I've seen episodes all out of order and stuff...
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:26:45 AM
Space battles?
What a neanderthal.
Battle Star Galactica is not about space battles - it is about profound and insightful views into the human condition and the careful and considered character development of complex personalities.
Has anyone else been incredibly dissapointed with the job they did with Lee Adama? What a fucking tool he is. He is the Wesley Crusher of BSG.
Say word son!
Bahh leave the thread to the faithful if you're here only to bitch and moan !
And yes Korea, Appollo is very tasty looking. So's Helo *mmm*
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 11, 2009, 11:16:03 AM
Bahh leave the thread to the faithful if you're here only to bitch and moan !
No. Your lot are a bunch of heretics. You will all die.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:26:45 AM
Space battles?
What a neanderthal.
Battle Star Galactica is not about space battles - it is about profound and insightful views into the human condition and the careful and considered character development of complex personalities.
Has anyone else been incredibly dissapointed with the job they did with Lee Adama? What a fucking tool he is. He is the Wesley Crusher of BSG.
QFT
Quote from: Grallon on March 11, 2009, 11:16:03 AM
Bahh leave the thread to the faithful if you're here only to bitch and moan !
And yes Korea, Appollo is very tasty looking. So's Helo *mmm*
G.
The faithfull? Hah! The true believers consist of those who still think Starbuck and Boomer are a womanizer and a black dude, respectively. The entire tradition and essence of the show along with its humor were destroyed with the current incarnation.
That said, I have enjoyed the new series. Especially since I got past the complete change in character roles, that Apollo is no longer a fighter pilot, that Starbuck is an emo chick and that I want to put my peepee in Boomer's boom boom. I accepted it and have enjoyed the show. But at its core, the show is about fricking SPACE BATTLES!!!! Bring me back my space battles!!!!
Quote
Has anyone else been incredibly dissapointed with the job they did with Lee Adama? What a fucking tool he is. He is the Wesley Crusher of BSG.
true dat. Before The Pegasus aftermath, Apollo was well, Apollo. Now he's Wes-Lee :-[
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 01:59:58 AMThe Pegasus
No way that could have been as cool as Lloyd Bridges as Cmd. Caine.
Quote from: Syt on March 13, 2009, 02:12:25 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 01:59:58 AMThe Pegasus
No way that could have been as cool as Lloyd Bridges as Cmd. Caine.
HOTT Lesbian Commander Caine wins that. Lloyd may have been a Lesbian, but not a Hott one.
Tonight's epi will I think anger much blood. (where is CC?) I loved it and it has reaffirmed how much I dig this show.
btw next week on Space they are playing all the previous 4.5 episodes over the day until the 2 hour finale so you can watch it all in one day. I may due that as a little party for myself. Tho I would just play my DL'd copies. no ads til finale.
So it didn't suck?
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 10:11:52 PM
HOTT Lesbian Commander Caine wins that. Lloyd may have been a Lesbian, but not a Hott one.
Fuck no. Finding virtue in lesbianism and T&A over pure coolness and badassery in order to titillate people is what has made this new series into an abomination.
Quote from: Neil on March 13, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 10:11:52 PM
HOTT Lesbian Commander Caine wins that. Lloyd may have been a Lesbian, but not a Hott one.
Fuck no. Finding virtue in lesbianism and T&A over pure coolness and badassery in order to titillate people is what has made this new series into an abomination.
whatever Grandpa. *steps off lawn*
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 13, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 10:11:52 PM
HOTT Lesbian Commander Caine wins that. Lloyd may have been a Lesbian, but not a Hott one.
Fuck no. Finding virtue in lesbianism and T&A over pure coolness and badassery in order to titillate people is what has made this new series into an abomination.
whatever Grandpa. *steps off lawn*
Aren't you older than me?
Episode 21 -
Daybreak Part 1 - aired march 13th 2009
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 13, 2009, 10:14:20 PM
Tonight's epi will I think anger much blood. (where is CC?) I loved it and it has reaffirmed how much I dig this show.
Indeed. The forum over at SCIFI is turning into a trenchwar :D And no doubt the usual suspects will come waltzing in here, spitting and screeching. Ah ! They remind me of angry children who didn't get their promised sweets.
I liked it a lot. More than I thought when I realised this would be yet another 'filler' - as in flesh around the bones. It ties in the show's mantra ' all this happened before...' by showing some of the choices made by the main characters before the war - and the repercussions they're still experiencing now we're at the end.
G.
Oh and I *loved* the wink at Baltar - his name is Gaius and his father's name is Julius 8)
G.
Looking forward to seeing the latest episode.
The season 2 episode Black Market is on TV at the moment. It's terrible. It must be one of the worst episodes.
Can anyone think any worse ones?
YOu know, I've been wondering how they were going to manage to wrap up this story arc in a just a few more shows. Seems like there was still so much that needed to be told.
Now, I realize, there isn't much left to be told. In fact, there is apparently so little left to be told, we can waste almost an entire episode - the second to last episode EVER telling pretty much nothing at all.
Quote from: Berkut on March 14, 2009, 10:04:19 AM
...
Now, I realize, there isn't much left to be told. In fact, there is apparently so little left to be told, we can waste almost an entire episode - the second to last episode EVER telling pretty much nothing at all.
And there we go ;)
Here's an exerpt of an interview conducted by Mo Ryan (Chicago Tribune) with Ron Moore before the start of this season.
QuoteMR: And speaking of the series finale, you're happy with how that came out?
RDM: Very pleased with it. It came together all at once and it was a strange experience. In the writers' room, we spent the first day [of breaking that episode] in a lot of difficulty, a lot of frustration. We sort of knew what the plot was, we knew the action story, we knew the plot of the finale. We spent that whole first day just struggling with the mechanics of the plot, how you got from A to B. We were spinning our wheels. I went home and I was in the shower and I had this "Duh" moment – the show was never about that. That's not why I love the show. It's not about the plot.
I went into the writers' room the next day and wrote on the big dry-erase board, "It's the characters, stupid," and the writers laughed and we all sat back and said, "Who gives a [expletive] about the plot? Let's just talk about these characters."
G.
LOL, talk about a writers cop-out.
"Ahhh, fuck, we've screwed up the plot so fucking much we cannot even figure out how to wrap this abortion up. Screw it, we will just pretend we never really cared about that, and write about Baltars old dad and the Presidents dead pregnant sister that have nothing at all to do with the show in any way, shape, or form! That will work!"
Please, that is utter bullshit.
It's not about the plot my ass. Of course it is about the plot. And the characters. They are not separable.
So, what is Starbuck? I am so confused by this show but I guess thats because all I've seen are a bunch of random episodes out of order.
Is Starbuck a cylon or a human?
I hadn't watched the show in years but was able to catch this season's Galactica mutiny subplot. I was really impressed and hoped that this would be a good show to latch onto. Then I watched the episode where Ellen Tigh switches into exposition mode and I was immediately turned off. Haven't seen an episode since. :(
I'll just wait the rest of this series out and see if it's worth buying after the whole thing's done.
Quote from: Grallon on March 14, 2009, 10:40:04 AM
Here's an exerpt of an interview conducted by Mo Ryan (Chicago Tribune) with Ron Moore before the start of this season.
QuoteMR: And speaking of the series finale, you're happy with how that came out?
RDM: Very pleased with it. It came together all at once and it was a strange experience. In the writers' room, we spent the first day [of breaking that episode] in a lot of difficulty, a lot of frustration. We sort of knew what the plot was, we knew the action story, we knew the plot of the finale. We spent that whole first day just struggling with the mechanics of the plot, how you got from A to B. We were spinning our wheels. I went home and I was in the shower and I had this "Duh" moment – the show was never about that. That's not why I love the show. It's not about the plot.
I went into the writers' room the next day and wrote on the big dry-erase board, "It's the characters, stupid," and the writers laughed and we all sat back and said, "Who gives a [expletive] about the plot? Let's just talk about these characters."
G.
The more I think about this, the more I suspect this might be the worst writing cop-out of all time.
He is "very pleased with" how the series finale came out, largely because he realized its "not about the plot", and "who gives a shit about the plot".
Yeah.....that really cannot be good. How someone can read that and think "Hell, yeah, this is awesome!" is beyond me.
The only way the finale isn't an utter disaster is if that little bit of horseshit is some kind of clever mis-direction attempt, and the finale will actually reflect that they give a shit about the plot and actually decided to finish the story, rather than spend 2 hours of exposition on the depth and profoundness of Baltar's Daddy issues.
The best part?
Grallon spooging about it, and using as his clever example of their incredible character development the truly edgy bit with Gaius father being named Julius. Oh my, that is such incredible character development! THAT is what makes this show great!
Quote from: Berkut on March 14, 2009, 10:55:53 AM
It's not about the plot my ass. Of course it is about the plot. And the characters. They are not separable.
Yup. And it's not as though they haven't fucked up the characters pretty badly too, anyway.
Still, I'm hoping they pull off something that's at least somewhat satisfying with the finale. Less likely things have happened.
Quote from: Berkut on March 14, 2009, 12:27:58 PM
.....
The best part?
Grallon spooging about it, and using as his clever example of their incredible character development the truly edgy bit with Gaius father being named Julius. Oh my, that is such incredible character development! THAT is what makes this show great!
Ahh Berkut, one can always rely upon you to be ham fisted about anything you choose to 'debate' - which is really always more of a monologue than anything else.
I did enjoy the tone of this episode and that clever bit you mention. However I will let the text of the following blog express my impressions of the episode in the context of this season:
http://memles.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/battlestar-galactica-daybreak-part-one/ (http://memles.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/battlestar-galactica-daybreak-part-one/)
G.
The whole 'this side of the line with us that side not' thing was damn dumb.
If they're going on a last suicide mission why do they need all these non-essential personel and civilians- what use would Baltar and gang even have been?
At least it didn't do the cliche of everyone instantly going onto the "We're with you" side.
Quote from: vinraith on March 14, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
Yup. And it's not as though they haven't fucked up the characters pretty badly too, anyway.
Indeed they can't quite take solace in good character development or plot...
I am in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Berkut. For he is right. And Gralls, my old Motrealiean friend, is wrong. On this. Now.
I love this series...
Even with all the plot holes, I simply love it
Quote from: Disturbed Pervert on March 10, 2009, 07:32:37 AM
BSG ended after New Caprica.
I'm going through the DVDs, and boy howdy, the New Caprica arc did suck.
Just finished downloading and watching. This episode just made me sad. 2nd to last episode and this is all we get?
Quote from: Neil on March 14, 2009, 11:59:40 AM
Quote from: Korea on March 14, 2009, 11:01:28 AM
So, what is Starbuck?
A man.
It'd be really funny if the end had Dirk Benedict waking up and going, "wow what a weird dream".
Quote from: Ideologue on March 14, 2009, 08:56:02 PM
I'm going through the DVDs, and boy howdy, the New Caprica arc did suck.
If you didn't think the rescue from New Caprica was awesome you might want to get tested for BRAIN CANCER.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 14, 2009, 10:40:51 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 14, 2009, 11:59:40 AM
Quote from: Korea on March 14, 2009, 11:01:28 AM
So, what is Starbuck?
A man.
It'd be really funny if the end had Dirk Benedict waking up and going, "wow what a weird dream".
I'd like that ending. It would mean they had something in mind.
For a regular TV series, one that was episodic in nature, this 'its about the characters' crap would be OK. In this one? It's about the plot. THE PLOT. WHERE ARE THEY GOING. WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN. What the fuck is up with an attitude like that? He sounds like a world class jackass. You can't twist the plot so it resembles a bowl of spaghetti knotted up and then blow it all off with a laugh and say any sort of definitive resolution is noy only unnecessary but irrelevant.
BSG ended after New Caprica.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 14, 2009, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 14, 2009, 08:56:02 PM
I'm going through the DVDs, and boy howdy, the New Caprica arc did suck.
If you didn't think the rescue from New Caprica was awesome you might want to get tested for BRAIN CANCER.
Yeah, I thought it was awesome when Fat Lee flew his fat Pegasus through a basestar, and the Galactica's atmospheric launch of Vipers was sweet-ass sweet.
Unfortunately, the premise of the arc was retarded. The premise is that the Cylons want to maintain law and order on New Caprica,
when there is absolutely no reason for them to do so. We're told the Cylons have decided, via majority rule, to unilaterally suspend hostilities against the humans and try to be nice to them. They go about this by conquering them, throwing them in prison, ripping out their eyes and fucking their wives.
I wrote this rant/review elsewhere... see no reason to repeat myself unnecessarily when copy and paste works just as well, so here's the larger part of it with some minor editing...
QuoteOkay, firstly, firstly, Mustache Bill. The only way this could have been better is if Saul had grown one too, angrily growling, "You said it'd be like a vacation from ourselves!" Squaring off with Mustache Bill is Fat Lee. I actually liked this part because it made me laugh.
Then we see New Caprica. It's been a year. I'm anticipating what kind of civilization they've brought to this brave new world... oh, it's a bunch of tents. They've been here a year, and they're all still living in the tents they brought with them 365 days ago. Well, all right, maybe there aren't any building materials... hey, wait a minute, are those fucking trees?
But fine, it's squalid and that's what they were going for. Whatever.
Then the Cylons show up. Four months pass, they still haven't built a single house. Except for the one Creepy Leoben built for Kara Thrace. Yeah, I knew Cavil was going to be a weird fixated guy. I didn't know I'd get to hear about old person swirlgasms, but Dean Stockwell makes it entertaining. What I didn't realize is that Leoben was going to emotionally torture Starbuck for no obvious reason and force her to make out with him. I'm sure we can all agree mindlessly cruel and really a little boring is a great improvement over interesting and mysterious [e.g., S1's Flesh and Bone].
But Mindless Cruelty is the name of the New Caprican game. We're made to understand that the Cylons have reconsidered their genocidal rage against the human race and have unilaterally declared the end of the war. Now they want to be friends with the humans and open a "new era in human-Cylon relations."
If the Cylons have really reached a consensus around Boomer and Caprica Six that the human beings are worth letting live and worth being friends, why enslave them?
Maybe the Cylons are secretly fearful of a resurgent human race--and if this is true it is paranoid to the point of idiocy. The Cylons apparently beat the humans the first time when they had the resources of a dozen planets and billions of people. The Cylons nearly wiped them out the second time when they had the resources of a dozen planets and billions of people and ample time to prepare. Good Lord, the New Capricans can't even build houses, they're not building a fleet to come after you!
But if they are truly fearful, why bother with the charade of friendship? Kill them all, or just silently observe, and if they become a threat, then kill them.
However, it appears what the writers wanted were Snideley Whiplash and his Centurions to roll into what may only charitably be described as a town and spur a bunch of humans to suicide bombing, and ye olde "escalating cycle of violence."
This is the thing: you can't escalate violence against an immortal. Why do the Cylons even give a shit that the humans are greeting their hand of friendship with a smack? Okay, preliminarily, you had to have seen that coming. Secondly, they are not doing you any real harm.
Even if you walk into their settlement, and they kill you, so what? You download, you walk right back into the settlement, and try to pick up where you left off. Continue until they get tired of killing you. Another plus to this approach is that you've provided the entire human race enough meat for the coming winter, and eventually they're going to appreciate this.
Even John Cavil, a.k.a. Whiplash, and Aaron Doral, Snideley Junior, can grok this, can't they? Hell, in Lay Down Your Burdens, one of the Cavils makes it abundantly clear that he doesn't care what they do to him! Why does he care now? So Cavil and Doral are chewing scenery like it's somehow urgent that they quell the human revolt. "If we don't send a message that the gloves are off, the humans will... uh, they will... hm. They can't blow up our basestars. They can hurt us but they can never kill us. If we're actually careful, we can't even be hurt--we could probably try to open a dialogue with the human raceby the newfangled invention of 'radio,' and leave the face-to-face talks to idealistic volunteers like Caprica and Boomer who got us into this mess in the first place, while we chill on the basestar. Well, although this is the rational sort of thing you would expect from machines, we are the Big Evil... we'd better go execute some people (publicly!) because it says we do, right here in the script."
This is what really makes no sense: if the Cylon majority voted to be nice to the humans in the first place, why in Cylon God's name are the Caprica Six and Boomer partisans allowing Cavil and Doral to taint their olive branch with fucking cyanide?
So we get a lot of the Mindless Cruelty from our Cylon buddies, but let's not forget we get Reactionary Monsterism from our humans. It didn't really bug me that some or even most people blamed Baltar, but it bugged me that everyone was ridiculous enough in their thinking that they reviled him an adjunct to the devil himself. Getting pissed at Baltar for signing prepared documents while a gun is pointed at his head is as pointless as getting pissed at say, Cally, for not getting herself splattered all over her baby while resisting arrest. They're about equally "traitorous." You know what, Gaeta [who makes a trenchant comment toward Baltar using his position to obtain fucktoys]? Maybe if you and your bloodthirsty friends weren't so busy making nuisances of yourselves and turning all the eligibles into meatloaf, you'd get laid too.
I don't even want to go into how characters I liked (and do still like, particularly if I ignore the NC arc) suddenly became sociopathic killers of their own species when they decided it would be a good idea to kill as many New Caprica cops as possible. You're right, Saul, the only people who deserve to survive are the ones who keep trying to kill the immortal enemy and only succeed in killing humans who are scared, hopeless, and brutalized.
So in closing, I'll ask three questions. Was it well-dialogued, well-acted, entertaining drama? Sure. Did it make a lick of sense? No. Was the premise so ludicrous and under-nuanced that it ultimately undermined all the good dialogue, good acting, and entertainment--even the admittedly bitchin' Galactica airdrop and Pegasus ramming scenes? Yes, unfortunately, it was.
Everything that comes before and after New Caprica, for all its inconsistencies, is better than that insipidly plotted arc.
A shit sandwich may be better than shit stew, but in the end, you're still a shiteater.
I liked the episode.
I would have said it was a great episode, if it had been done in season 3, or earlier this year.
But now, all those flashback, only 2hrs away from the series finale? Bullshit.
I've been thinking about this and I think the real reason that we have all these Flashbacks now and all this Caprica stuff... it's setting up the next series which is set on Caprica and called such when The Admiral was just a kid. Huge scenes of a big Caprican city... daily life.
That's what the whole thing is about: these guys (Ronald Moore et al) keeping their sweet jobs.
Like I said before... Fuck plot holes, I simply love this series...
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 15, 2009, 01:14:52 PM
I've been thinking about this and I think the real reason that we have all these Flashbacks now and all this Caprica stuff... it's setting up the next series which is set on Caprica and called such when The Admiral was just a kid. Huge scenes of a big Caprican city... daily life.
That's what the whole thing is about: these guys (Ronald Moore et al) keeping their sweet jobs.
My thoughts too.
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 15, 2009, 04:04:50 PM
Like I said before... Fuck plot holes, I simply love this series...
You are the reason that Portugal is still stuck in the 16th Century.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 15, 2009, 04:42:52 PM
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 15, 2009, 04:04:50 PM
Like I said before... Fuck plot holes, I simply love this series...
You are the reason that Portugal is still stuck in the 16th Century.
uh uh
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 15, 2009, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 15, 2009, 04:42:52 PM
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 15, 2009, 04:04:50 PM
Like I said before... Fuck plot holes, I simply love this series...
You are the reason that Portugal is still stuck in the 16th Century.
uh uh
Oh, who am I kidding, we all love you our Eggplant mascot.
Speak for yourself Wags.
Grallon, make sure you are sitting down.
I liked the last episode. They really got back on track. I look forward to the final two hours now.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 17, 2009, 12:46:36 PM
Grallon, make sure you are sitting down.
I liked the last episode. They really got back on track. I look forward to the final two hours now.
Who are you and what have you done with CC ! ???
-----
In other news there was a press screening of the finale on monday and the buzz is that people were blown away :)
Also, the TV movie "
The Plan", that was supposed to air in june is delayed till november :'(
G.
I'll try to slide a post in between chronic network breakdowns...
-----
Here are links to 'non-review' reviews of the finale seen by people at the press screening last monday.
http://www.examiner.com/x-668-TV-Examiner~y2009m3d17-The-nonreview-review-of-the-Battlestar-Galactica-finale
http://www.tvguide.com/News/MegaBuzz-Battlestar-Greys-1004144.aspx?rss=breakingnews&partnerid=imdb&profileid=01
http://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/media-business-bloggers/41363107.html
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 19, 2009, 11:57:16 AM
I'll try to slide a post in between chronic network breakdowns...
It's probably the shittiness of the show that's causing the network problems.
I will keep my criticism about that plot holes to myself.
On the whole I liked how they ended things. It was a good way to retire the series. One thing I would have liked to see was a bit better explanation for kara thrace II rather then just have her disappear into the ether. But other then that I liked it.
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
That's too bad. I'll likely skip this show altogether.
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 21, 2009, 12:04:46 AM
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
That's too bad. I'll likely skip this show altogether.
I genuinely wish I had.
Oh come on, seasons 1 and 2 were great. Let's just imagine that everyone died to a second nuclear holocaust on New Caprica when the natives became restless.
I remember reading a long time ago about the final scene. I thought it was just random internet rumour mongering...but it turned out to have been right.
A pretty awful ending to the series. Oh well.
I'm still processing it. Only comment is that the BSG is clearly the B-Ark, bathtub on the bridge and all.
Well the space battle was great. The ending was terrible.
I WIN!
I told you all from the beginning.
Quote from: Vince on March 21, 2009, 07:29:23 AM
Well the space battle was great. The ending was terrible.
What happened?
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
A Highlander 2 reference. bravo.
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
Yeah. Ide said it sucked a lot. I didn't get to see it.
I liked it...
Quote from: Strix on March 21, 2009, 07:49:43 AM
Quote from: Vince on March 21, 2009, 07:29:23 AM
Well the space battle was great. The ending was terrible.
What happened?
I missed most of it, but the ending could have been better.
Quote from: Vince on March 21, 2009, 07:29:23 AM
Well the space battle was great.
The space battle was fun, although still too deus ex for my tastes. It'd been a long time though, so it was nice to see the guns fire up one last time.
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
I'm pissed that I bought the DVDs. This isn't just a bad ending--it's a undermining of the entire show. It is the worst possible thing they could have done. There is no ending I can conceive worse than the one they gave us.
Shit, being
cancelled before Daybreak would have been better. Anytime I watch an old episode, Daybreak's going to be there, in my mind, mocking me, laughing at my answers to the questions each plot thread raises, cackling hysterically as we get closer to the worst, laziest exegesis of a plot in all human history.
If I imagine that the episode ends with Baltar convincing Cavil to be peaceful, I can almost still like the show. Maybe I'll try that. I doubt it'll work.
I feel like Cavil in that scene. No hope, pull the trigger. My soul is already dead. Daybreak killed it.
Actually, where's Grallon? He was kind of depressive already.
I doubt I'll ever watch any of the episodes of this show that occurred after the caprica rescue again. Maybe the mutiny episodes, so I can see Gaeta die.
Quote from: Strix on March 21, 2009, 07:49:43 AM
Quote from: Vince on March 21, 2009, 07:29:23 AM
Well the space battle was great. The ending was terrible.
What happened?
Hey good news we've landed on Earth and found safety! Now lets junk our ships and technology then scatter across the globe into small packs with just a carry-on bag for each person and watch 95% of our population die from exposure! ::)
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 21, 2009, 10:38:28 AM
I doubt I'll ever watch any of the episodes of this show that occurred after the caprica rescue again. Maybe the mutiny episodes, so I can see Gaeta die.
This ending makes me wish Gaeta had won.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:49:16 AM
This ending makes me wish Gaeta had won.
No shit, now that I think of it. At least he wouldn't have crashed their entire fleet in to the sun and forced everyone in to a stone age existence.
It was a clean slate. Return to the Eden of bare sustenance survival.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 21, 2009, 11:24:02 AM
It was a clean slate. Return to the Eden of bare sustenance survival.
Well, that was pretty stupid.
Still, did they manage to kill off everyone with the slightest bit of science or engineering knowledge?
Most of them are gonna be dead soon, and the few alive are gonna be wearing animal skins, wiping their ass with leaves, and hoping they don't cut their foot on a rock, get infected, and die. Not to mention living as hunter gatherers all their knowledge of their past mistakes will be destroyed, basically guaranteeing their descendants will make the same mistakes they did in the past. Why bother spending 4 years fighting tooth and nail trying to escape the mechanical holocaust? As soon as they found a planet they decided to abandon each other and everything needed to keep civilization alive, and go live as noble savages.
Oh that's right, it's God's plan.
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2009, 11:37:58 AM
Still, did they manage to kill off everyone with the slightest bit of science or engineering knowledge?
No, but the story supposedly exists in our timeline. They landed 150,000 years ago, so apparently they had basically no impact and died out.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 21, 2009, 11:39:36 AM
Most of them are gonna be dead soon, and the few alive are gonna be wearing animal skins, wiping their ass with leaves, and hoping they don't cut their foot on a rock, get infected, and die. Not to mention living as hunter gatherers all their knowledge of their past mistakes will be destroyed, basically guaranteeing their ancestors will make the same mistakes they did in the past. Why bother spending 4 years fighting tooth and nail trying to escape the mechanical holocaust? As soon as they found a planet they decided to abandon each other and everything needed to keep civilization alive, and go live as noble savages.
Oh that's right, it's God's plan.
I think you mean descendants. Not ancestors.
classic deus ex machina used: check
overbearing references to today used: check
B-movie plot quality reached: check
Epic fail when compared to series' beginning reached: check check check check check......
error...
shutting down system...
reboot...
reboot...
Starbuck's a man!
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 21, 2009, 11:43:20 AM
I think you mean descendants. Not ancestors.
doh. Yes, I did.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 21, 2009, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:49:16 AM
This ending makes me wish Gaeta had won.
No shit, now that I think of it. At least he wouldn't have crashed their entire fleet in to the sun and forced everyone in to a stone age existence.
Tom Zarek for President:
he may have some of you purged, but at least he won't make you live in a hunter-gatherer society rife with malaria.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.open.salon.com%2Ffiles%2Fdirk_benedict_galactica_starbuck1232165192.jpg&hash=8ce101e3d934706e6ba07aa7eb8a298577388c37)
Trust in me.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comic-con.org%2Fwc2006%2Fcelebs%2Fjefferson_herbert_jr.jpg&hash=151be5dc8685b1e540bc1e10c818aa830d89e25f)
And me too.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 11:50:39 AM
Tom Zarek for President: he may have some of you purged, but at least he won't make you live in a hunter-gatherer society rife with malaria.
A vote for Tom Zarek, is a vote for TOILET PAPER!
I just read the synopsis ending online. :D
I'd rather have the flying motorcycles.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
I'm pissed that I bought the DVDs. This isn't just a bad ending--it's a undermining of the entire show. It is the worst possible thing they could have done. There is no ending I can conceive worse than the one they gave us.
I managed to resist buying the DVD's for fear of something like this, and I'm incredibly glad I did. Still, it's depressing as hell, this thing started SO well.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2009, 11:56:43 AM
I just read the synopsis ending online. :D
I'd rather have the flying motorcycles.
Where is this synopsis?
Quote from: vinraith on March 21, 2009, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
I'm pissed that I bought the DVDs. This isn't just a bad ending--it's a undermining of the entire show. It is the worst possible thing they could have done. There is no ending I can conceive worse than the one they gave us.
I managed to resist buying the DVD's for fear of something like this, and I'm incredibly glad I did. Still, it's depressing as hell, this thing started SO well.
When S4.5 started so strongly, I got caught up, and had to go out and get them. So now I have everything but 4.5...
You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pretend Revelations is the last episode. There was a real danger of that, and in retrospect it would have been a far superior finale than what we have, for all the threads it hangs loose in the wind.
Things are left very ambiguous, and some plot elements aren't explained at all (Starbuck's repaired Viper is prominent), but you can sort of logic out a satsfactory explanation there.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: vinraith on March 21, 2009, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
I'm pissed that I bought the DVDs. This isn't just a bad ending--it's a undermining of the entire show. It is the worst possible thing they could have done. There is no ending I can conceive worse than the one they gave us.
I managed to resist buying the DVD's for fear of something like this, and I'm incredibly glad I did. Still, it's depressing as hell, this thing started SO well.
When S4.5 started so strongly, I got caught up, and had to go out and get them. So now I have everything but 4.5...
You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pretend Revelations is the last episode. There was a real danger of that, and in retrospect it would have been a far superior finale than what we have, for all the threads it hangs loose in the wind.
Things are left very ambiguous, and some plot elements aren't explained at all (Starbuck's repaired Viper is prominent), but you can sort of logic out a satsfactory explanation there.
Yup, anything you make up is going to be better than what we got. The problem, as you say, is that "Daybreak" is always going to be there at the back of your head, telling you that the writers didn't have a fucking clue what any of it meant.
This kind of shit is the reason I've yet to watch Lost, by the way.
I think the writers got too caught up in trying to provide surprises, mysteries, and twists, which they never had any real idea how to resolve, instead of providing steady but good plot development.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 21, 2009, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 21, 2009, 11:56:43 AM
I just read the synopsis ending online. :D
I'd rather have the flying motorcycles.
Where is this synopsis?
On wiki, the list of episodes. It is just a paragraph.
The ending...
Finding real Earth: cool.
It being totally unrelated to their civilization, our past and they decide to go back to basics: :bleeding:^799332
Quote from: vinraith on March 21, 2009, 12:15:14 PM
This kind of shit is the reason I've yet to watch Lost, by the way.
It will be really interesting how they manage to piece Lost together. At least they got a couple of seasons to do it in.
I still love that show to death though.
I didn't watch much of season 4, so perhaps this was explained in detail - why didn't Baltar or Six age at all after 150,000 years?
GODDIDIT? :-X
Quote from: vinraith on March 21, 2009, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: vinraith on March 21, 2009, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
Quote from: vinraith on March 20, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
The single worst finale I've ever seen, to anything. Quite literally on par with Highlander 2 in its overwhelmingly horrible stupidity, trite moralizing, and general laughable idiocy. Neil's been right all along, I renounce the show after that.
I'm pissed that I bought the DVDs. This isn't just a bad ending--it's a undermining of the entire show. It is the worst possible thing they could have done. There is no ending I can conceive worse than the one they gave us.
I managed to resist buying the DVD's for fear of something like this, and I'm incredibly glad I did. Still, it's depressing as hell, this thing started SO well.
When S4.5 started so strongly, I got caught up, and had to go out and get them. So now I have everything but 4.5...
You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pretend Revelations is the last episode. There was a real danger of that, and in retrospect it would have been a far superior finale than what we have, for all the threads it hangs loose in the wind.
Things are left very ambiguous, and some plot elements aren't explained at all (Starbuck's repaired Viper is prominent), but you can sort of logic out a satsfactory explanation there.
Yup, anything you make up is going to be better than what we got. The problem, as you say, is that "Daybreak" is always going to be there at the back of your head, telling you that the writers didn't have a fucking clue what any of it meant.
This kind of shit is the reason I've yet to watch Lost, by the way.
You know what's really head-shakingly awful, Vin? A lot of people, the vast majority of people it appears,
like the finale. Like this poll I voted in, about 85% have rated it above average or excellent. All but 15% of a statistically significant sample believe this to be better than
mediocre. I don't believe it's better than the smell of my cat's
shit.Wanna see something funny from a Ron Moore interview about the finale?
QuoteOh yeah, it'll [Starbuck] be controversial. There will be people who will absolutely hate it and think that we failed in our mission. We debated it in the [writers] room, I thought about it a long time, and I had sort of the same answer. And the more I struggled to give definition to it, the less satisfying it became. There various avenues we went down, discussions, saying she's specifically this or that. And every time it felt uninteresting and kind of pedestrian.
Yeah, this feeling is your brain telling you it's a
bad idea.
Quote from: Fate on March 21, 2009, 12:41:10 PM
I didn't watch much of season 4, so perhaps this was explained in detail - why didn't Baltar or Six age at all after 150,000 years?
GODDIDIT? :-X
Those were the Head or Virtual Six and Baltar.
They really always were... fucking hell... angels.
Or agents of a higher, alien power which is functionally identical to God--so yeah, Goddidit.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 12:41:15 PM
You know what's really head-shakingly awful, Vin? A lot of people, the vast majority of people it appears, like the finale. Like this poll I voted in, about 85% have rated it above average or excellent. All but 15% of a statistically significant sample believe this to be better than mediocre. I don't believe it's better than the smell of my cat's shit.
The responses I've seen online have been decidedly mixed, with a bent towards the negative. I think any positive response you're seeing right now is the fanboy brigade out in force to defend their sinking ship. I simply can't believe that this one isn't going down in television history as one of the worst cop-outs/laughable trainwrecks in TV history. It's the Highlander 2 of the small screen.
I think many people are content with the ending because it's relative to the sheer volume of shit that the Sci-Fi channel produces. What more could you really expect from that network?
HBO really needs to produce their own NC-17 space opera. 8)
Thinking further...This is old Africa....what a kick in the nuts when the climate changes.
Idiots. Idiots. Idiots.
Good finale until that choice though.
Quote from: Fate on March 21, 2009, 12:54:34 PM
I think many people are content with the ending because it's relative to the sheer volume of shit that the Sci-Fi channel produces. What more could you really expect from that network?
HBO really needs to produce their own NC-17 space opera. 8)
It'd probably end up canceled, like Rome.
Rome and BSG are basically the only two TV shows I've seriously watched that have come out in the past decade. I don't know if I'm gonna bother with another series for a while, Rome was canceled, and BSG turned out to be a disappointment, although there were some truly great episodes along the way.
A series called "Syns" is currently being developed by Showtime. From what I've read, it looks to be a reimagining of Bladerunner.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 21, 2009, 01:18:18 PM
It'd probably end up canceled, like Rome.
Rome and BSG are basically the only two TV shows I've seriously watched that have come out in the past decade. I don't know if I'm gonna bother with another series for a while, Rome was canceled, and BSG turned out to be a disappointment, although there were some truly great episodes along the way.
I would recommend
Deadwood except that it was executed by HBO, in favor of
John from Cincinnati, which barely lasted ten episodes. Had
Deadwood been allowed to finish, even in three seasons (and these were the twelve-ep HBO seasons), it would be one of the top-ten shows of all time in my book. As it is, the frustration of the show just... stopping... is more than the excellent writing and acting makes up for.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
...
Actually, where's Grallon? He was kind of depressive already.
Oh look, another languishite wishing for my early demise ::)
-----
As for this finale... I guess the one word I could use to describe it is 'bitter-sweet'. I'm left ambivalent. If Berkut hasn't come angrily blaring about cop out yet, he no doubt will; and I'll even agree with him. But I suppose this is the best possible ending considering the corners they painted themselves into. When Moore said 'it's the characters stupid !" we now know what he meant. I wonder if things would have ended differently if there hadn't been the writer's strike last year ?
In the end the emotional journey was satisfying; we got closure for the main characters - if not for some plots left dangling. There was no explanations about the head people other than they were angels... Same with Starbuck... Seeing such a rich character being short changed like that disapoints me. We never learned what happened to the rest of the cylon fleet either - all the other Cavils on all the other baseships left around the colonies and Kobol... Finally the whole 'let's happily become cavemen' was beyond sloppy and left a sour aftertaste.
Be that as it may, I still enjoyed it... to a point. One could say the finale was a mirror image for the show: conflicted.
-----
However if there's one thing that irritates me is the level of ... outrage, veciferously voiced by some fans. There are people over at SCIFI forum swearing they'll sell their DVDs, never watch anything Moore ever does again... They judge the show is a failure because their pet theories didn't get air time. Bah this is so juvenile !
For good or ill, Battlestar Galactica remains one of the best thing ever showed on television.
Farewell to the Admiral, the President, Apollo, Starbuck, and everyone else !
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 19, 2009, 11:57:16 AMhttp://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/media-business-bloggers/41363107.html
QuoteThe most politically engaging, culturally relevant, socially entertaining and spiritually rewarding experience I had this past week was watching the two-hour finale of Battlestar Galactica, at a special press screening hosted by Sci Fi network, which announced yesterday it would soon be called Syfy.
This sentence contains so much fail, including SciFi becoming Syfy that I recommend we get a smilie that pukes bleeding eyes.
Quote from: Grallon on March 21, 2009, 01:48:50 PMThere are people over at SCIFI forum swearing they'll sell their DVDs, never watch anything Moore ever does again...
I don't think I'll ever bother to watch anything he does again. Won't throw out my dvds though, I love the first half of the series.
Quote
Farewell to the Admiral, the President, Apollo, Starbuck, and everyone else !
This I will agree with. They gave me some good times. Farewell Galactica.
Why is everyone saying goodbye? I thought there was yet another 2 hours of TV movie in some sort of reversion to the early plot? Has this been axed?
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2009, 01:43:48 PMI would recommend Deadwood except that it was executed by HBO, in favor of John from Cincinnati, which barely lasted ten episodes. Had Deadwood been allowed to finish, even in three seasons (and these were the twelve-ep HBO seasons), it would be one of the top-ten shows of all time in my book. As it is, the frustration of the show just... stopping... is more than the excellent writing and acting makes up for.
I didn't bother with that when it came out as I'm not really in to Westerns. I suppose that's a bad reason to avoid it though, but the early cancellation does make me hesitant to start the series.
Quote from: Grallon on March 21, 2009, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
...
Actually, where's Grallon? He was kind of depressive already.
Oh look, another languishite wishing for my early demise ::)
Now, G, you know I was kidding. 8)
QuoteAs for this finale... I guess the one word I could use to describe it is 'bitter-sweet'. I'm left ambivalent. If Berkut hasn't come angrily blaring about cop out yet, he no doubt will; and I'll even agree with him. But I suppose this is the best possible ending considering the corners they painted themselves into. When Moore said 'it's the characters stupid !" we now know what he meant. I wonder if things would have ended differently if there hadn't been the writer's strike last year ?
In the end the emotional journey was satisfying; we got closure for the main characters - if not for some plots left dangling. There was no explanations about the head people other than they were angels... Same with Starbuck... Seeing such a rich character being short changed like that disapoints me. We never learned what happened to the rest of the cylon fleet either - all the other Cavils on all the other baseships left around the colonies and Kobol... Finally the whole 'let's happily become cavemen' was beyond sloppy and left a sour aftertaste.
Be that as it may, I still enjoyed it... to a point.
Me too--that point was reached one hour and fifteen minutes in.
QuoteOne could say the finale was a mirror image for the show: conflicted.
However if there's one thing that irritates me is the level of ... outrage, veciferously voiced by some fans. There are people over at SCIFI forum swearing they'll sell their DVDs, never watch anything Moore ever does again... They judge the show is a failure because their pet theories didn't get air time. Bah this is so juvenile !
Not really. Every fan theory was better than the actual ending. It is actually the mark of an adult when one can say, justifiably self-confidently, "this is garbage and I could have done better."
QuoteFor good or ill, Battlestar Galactica remains one of the best thing ever showed on television.
Not anymore. I probably won't sell my DVDs (I suspect demand's going to bottom out on that), I'll probably even finish through them, and even rewatch them in the future. I may even watch The Plan and Caprica. But I am going to be awfully reticent to ever trust Ron Moore with anything ever again. His credibility is gone.
Quote from: VinraithThe responses I've seen online have been decidedly mixed, with a bent towards the negative. I think any positive response you're seeing right now is the fanboy brigade out in force to defend their sinking ship. I simply can't believe that this one isn't going down in television history as one of the worst cop-outs/laughable trainwrecks in TV history. It's the Highlander 2 of the small screen.
It's weird but on the forum where that poll was held, the actual posts seem far less one-sided than the poll.
Was Highlander 2 really all that bad? Highlander 1 wasn't exactly Shakespeare. :-[
Quote from: grumbler on March 21, 2009, 02:10:00 PM
Why is everyone saying goodbye? I thought there was yet another 2 hours of TV movie in some sort of reversion to the early plot? Has this been axed?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't imagine watching that after this finale. I sincerely hope
Caprica tanks out of the gate, too.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 02:16:47 PM
It's weird but on the forum where that poll was held, the actual posts seem far less one-sided than the poll.
Was Highlander 2 really all that bad? Highlander 1 wasn't exactly Shakespeare. :-[
Highlander 2 is legendary. Have a look around the web.
It seems 2.18gb of data is slow to download... I'll watch it tonight. Don't want to see this show is SD, fuck no.
Btw, I got the 1st season and the Mini-Series on HD-DVD. How nice it is :)
That was a good show, sometime ago.
Quote from: vinraith on March 21, 2009, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 02:16:47 PM
It's weird but on the forum where that poll was held, the actual posts seem far less one-sided than the poll.
Was Highlander 2 really all that bad? Highlander 1 wasn't exactly Shakespeare. :-[
Highlander 2 is legendary. Have a look around the web.
It's not as bad as Quest for the Mighty Sword.
I really enjoyed the characters and the acting from the few episodes I've seen. It's unfortunate the writing in the end didn't live up to those two other key ingredients.
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 21, 2009, 03:30:15 PM
I really enjoyed the characters and the acting from the few episodes I've seen. It's unfortunate the writing in the end didn't live up to those two other key ingredients.
BSG is testament to how awesome you can make a mystery if you don't have to provide answers in the end.
Here http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-daybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html#more (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-daybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html#more) are some answers from Ron Moore himself. Well at least we know what he was thinking when he made the choices we saw reflected in the show.
G.
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 21, 2009, 03:30:15 PM
I really enjoyed the characters and the acting from the few episodes I've seen. It's unfortunate the writing in the end didn't live up to those two other key ingredients.
The characters get a bit... muddled over the run of the show, but the acting is consistently superb even when the writing utterly fails to support it.
When will Grallon admit that I was right?
Vin, I think you were setting yourself up for bitter disappointment. You have defended this tooth and nail and tried your best to think of possible explanations for all the plot holes. They didnt answer any of those plot holes and just gave up on others (like Thrace and the head people).
I recognized there was no way they could possibly overcome the plot holes and so did experience the same disappointment. You are just feeling what I was when Tigh became a Cylon alone with all the unfixable problems that brought.
But I guess I am still a bit disappointed about that. The whole final five/opera house dream sequences meant nothing more then getting the golden child to the Bridge. :(
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 21, 2009, 10:05:38 PM
The whole final five/opera house dream sequences meant nothing more then getting the golden child to the Bridge. :(
Yeah I thought that was kinda silly. Usually prophetic dreams mean more than walking from one room to another.
Meh, I am not really that outraged. I knew there was no way they were going to be able to make any sense of the people talking to Baltar, or THrace.
The thing is, Baltar talking to the Seven has been around forever - hard to get away from it, although they could have simply said he was a bit nuts.
The Thrace thing - they came up with that abortion of a plotline just recently. And her finding her body was not necessary to the story - so why do it? They had to know there was no damn way to ever explain that in any real way, so why do it?
Then she agonizes over what she is...but then she is ok, BUT NOT WITH ANY EXPLANATION? Even for her?
Sigh. And that is just an easy example.
Did they really imply that fucking Baltar was god?
I am going to go watch Band of Brothers. Try to have my faith restored in quality television.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 21, 2009, 03:46:19 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 21, 2009, 03:30:15 PM
I really enjoyed the characters and the acting from the few episodes I've seen. It's unfortunate the writing in the end didn't live up to those two other key ingredients.
BSG is testament to how awesome you can make a mystery if you don't have to provide answers in the end.
Just imagine how great BSG would be if the entire cast, writers, and production crew were killed in a plane crash about two years ago.
Eh, even crashing deep in the Amazon and having to learn first hand about the lives of hunter-gatherers would have helped.
yeah they kinda blew it ... though I admit to liking bits of it.
This thing that Moore said in an interview... that the show was all about the characters. Well I think he forgot, actually it's about the fans too. He should've learned from the horrible ending to Deep Space Nine. Same pattern quality episodes in the final run, then the finale is all about extended goodbyes and personal arcs ending, but not the big plot holes that the fans (who ultimately pay the bills by tuning in) who were actually really into the plot so casually discarded.
The triumph of Mormon nihilism? How sad.
Alright, now that I've thought about it, I'm ready to say that it was emotionally satisfying, yet I strongly disapprove of the way the writers gave into temptation and went with the obvious and sort-of-stupid resolution. Even a hint that 'god' was some sort of remorseful machine intelligence from the first cycle would have improved it...
The colonials have the same fate as the Golgafrinchams on B Ark? How fitting.
Here's a post lifted from SCIFI Forum.
G.
-----
QuoteThe amazing thing here is just how horrible the ending was. Really, it was... well I'd have preferred Apollo to wake up in a penthouse after a horrible dream or an autistic apollo being taken to Universal Studios' by his parents and dreaming the whole thing while looking at that Cylon standup they had during the 1970's.
The anti-technological message at the end was sickening-- it made Apollo into a prehistoric Pol Pot. (Another case of someone who decided to set us back to "year zero" by evacuating the cities. Didn't work so well). Somehow he got 38+ thousand people to go along with the insanity even though just two episodes back they had a screaming match over stripping Galactica and a number of the ships were willing to follow Gaeta. there are some sins in story telling and the mortal one is being inconsistent to the characters and this was that failing on crack.
Not only that, but they DIDN'T change anything. Nothing at all. They walked out and died in a few years (because given that most of them were from a technological society, learning to live without technology would have been rather fatal the first time a storm showed up. Hunter gatherer cultures have a very important skill set. They also die. A lot. It doesn't get better with primitive farming, since up until very recently, most cultures involved 99% of the population slaving away and dying horribly to support a tiny upper class that didn't have too much fun either).
But beyond that, they vanished, their language, their culture, all the struggles they went through vanished. Hera ended up starring on a nation geographic page... bones in a dig where there was no sign of technology so she died alone...and if you want creepy to get her genes into "our" gene pool, she was mating with beings that had no language. Even the more favorable estimates about the emergence of language stop at about 100K BCE, and more conservative ones have language emerging at 50K bce. Given how fast techological or civilized humans can expand thier numbers (remember, even a "ranger ricks guide to health' puts you ahead of 99% of the doctors who have lived in human society and new fangled ideas like "make a still and use the alcohol to sterilize tools and hands" radically, enormously reduce infant mortality, the only other answer is that they died out. Probably in most cases died out within a year, or a few years of landing.
In other words, at the end of the day, the four year crusade would have ended in about the same way had Adama gone with his first impulse, to go out, guns blazing, with the rest of the colonial fleet.
A for "doing things differently" this time. They didn't help that either. Mankind at the end was in the exact same place the colonials had been, both times...and of course since nobody knew that there was anything different (might have been nice to leave a ship on the moon, with a warning), there's no reason to believe the same mistake wouldn't be made, since mankind showed no reluctance to enslave himself. They left no message, no warning, no wisdom.
But again, the biggest, most unforgivable point was that at the very end, characters went 180 degrees of where they had been established. I'm not even going to get into to Starbuck as a head angel, but we had people accept this, with no body so much as saying: nope, I'm bringing down ship X which ish MY ship (remember the council of captains), and we're going to strip it for supplies and use it's engines so we can have light for a medical set up and power and the ability to purify water while we get established. Everyone decided to wander into the woods with what's on their back. This includes people like "President" Lampkin, for whom such an action would be a fast death sentence. (the oft stated: nomads were healthy is true. It misses the reason: those who were unhealthy or who were injured either got better, fast, or they died. This is also why so many primitive cultures have the practice of infanticide. It's not that they're evil, it's that they do not have the resource base to afford the luxury of useless mouths. That's something that comes along with "ebul" technology. If any of you have siblings with disabilities, or elderly parents, (both of which existed in the fleet) it's important to consider lee's decision in the view of the fact that he condemned them, all of them, to a very unpleasant death.
And of course what made it worse was that they had won at this point. They had made peace with the Cylons, even to the point of agreeing to let Cavil have ressurection tech and go their own ways. They could have gone for vengeance, seeking to kill him no matter the cost, but they didn't, the fact that it didn't work was due to Tyrol...and perhaps "God" (and if so, it's intervention was not benevolant). They gave the centurions their freedom, even without any assurances that they would not turn on them-- because it was right to do so. At the end of this series, the colonials have learned thier lessons, learned them in blood and fire, and paid the highest price for them...
And Apollo tosses it away. The colonials didn't lose... They surrendered. They committed suicide. It was a contemptible ending completely out of character for the individuals and it shows the casual contempt for technology that can only come from someone living in an advanced, first world nation, where that technology swaddles them in a lifestyle that the vast majority of human history would consider a literal paradise.
Quoteand if you want creepy to get her genes into "our" gene pool, she was mating with beings that had no language
More likely raped by beings that had no language. Along with a good portion of the female fleet members that didn't die right away. The scattered, starving bands of colonials probably ended up selling off their women to the grunting savages for scraps mammoth meat.
So what the show demonstrated was that those who died swiftly at the beginning of the war were the lucky ones? The survivors simply chose a complex, long, and painful suicide in the end?
That's kind of a neat answer, though nihilistic. The poster Gral quoted didn't see that coming. Did anyone here?
I would have found my original idea of original Boxey (not the one in Galactica 1980) looking into a snow globe with re-imagined Galactica floating in it better.
It demonstrates the contempt the writers have for their fans. They buried the plot under a knotted spaghetti of different lines and characters and then just dumped a blob of shit over that to cover it up. Asses.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 22, 2009, 08:31:22 AM
It demonstrates the contempt the writers have for their fans. They buried the plot under a knotted spaghetti of different lines and characters and then just dumped a blob of shit over that to cover it up. Asses.
To be fair, the writers are just supposed to attract viewers show-by-show. That's what they get rewarded for. They get no extra pay for "fan satisfaction when the show is finished."
It is the show runner who is responsible for maintaining overall coherence, and Moore has never been a very strong show runner, though he is a very good director. His shows are visually striking but seldom coherent.
Roswell's second season and
Carnivale's first were examples of that.
Moore was Peter-principled to the top, and he needs to step down a rung or two.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 22, 2009, 08:31:22 AM
I would have found my original idea of original Boxey (not the one in Galactica 1980) looking into a snow globe with re-imagined Galactica floating in it better.
It demonstrates the contempt the writers have for their fans. They buried the plot under a knotted spaghetti of different lines and characters and then just dumped a blob of shit over that to cover it up. Asses.
The ending was Alexandrine in it's simplicity. The writers had written themselves into a knot that could not be untangled, and so they just clove through it as best they could, transformed everyone into luddites and made the whole adventure for naught.
I win.
What's terrible is that there was still the possibility for rational, satisfying explanation, and they said "fuck it." They didn't cut this Gordian knot, they set it on fire.
Quote from: Neil on March 22, 2009, 09:39:19 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 22, 2009, 08:31:22 AM
I would have found my original idea of original Boxey (not the one in Galactica 1980) looking into a snow globe with re-imagined Galactica floating in it better.
It demonstrates the contempt the writers have for their fans. They buried the plot under a knotted spaghetti of different lines and characters and then just dumped a blob of shit over that to cover it up. Asses.
The ending was Alexandrine in it's simplicity. The writers had written themselves into a knot that could not be untangled, and so they just clove through it as best they could, transformed everyone into luddites and made the whole adventure for naught.
I win.
No, I disagree. I think they avoided the knot entirely. They left it behind, took a walk and hid behind a tree and crapped this out. By jingo.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 22, 2009, 11:26:02 AM
No, I disagree. I think they avoided the knot entirely. They left it behind, took a walk and hid behind a tree and crapped this out. By jingo.
Not at all. They didn't leave their plot behind, they just said that it didn't matter, and then proceeded to annihilate the entire colonial population.
I win.
My new favourite show is the Batman: Brave & The Bold, anyways. I've transitioned away from BSG already.
More Q&As from Moore and Eick:
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
Quote from: Cerr on March 22, 2009, 03:10:52 PM
More Q&As from Moore and Eick:
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
Wow. He had no fucking clue where he was going with this story, did he?
I enjoyed the finale up until Lee's idea to abandon civilisation and technology. Which makes absolutely no sense.
Quote from: Berkut on March 22, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
Quote from: Cerr on March 22, 2009, 03:10:52 PM
More Q&As from Moore and Eick:
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html
Wow. He had no fucking clue where he was going with this story, did he?
Doesn't look like it.
Quote from: Berkut on March 22, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
Wow. He had no fucking clue where he was going with this story, did he?
It's about the characters!!1!111
Quote from: Berkut on March 22, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
Wow. He had no fucking clue where he was going with this story, did he?
Of course he did. Where he was going was to the bank.
Having read the details of the final episode on Battlestar Wiki, all I can say is...
Moronic.
After all, given the subsequent history of the Earth, it seems nobody bothered to take any details on, say, ironworking or anything obvious like that...
Quote from: Agelastus on March 22, 2009, 04:14:59 PM
Having read the details of the final episode on Battlestar Wiki, all I can say is...
Moronic.
After all, given the subsequent history of the Earth, it seems nobody bothered to take any details on, say, ironworking or anything obvious like that...
Just look at the survival rates for the first few years at, say, Jamestown. 440 of the first 500 people to step ashore there were dead within 3 years. AND they had much more support and infrastructure than the refugees from the Colonies apparently had (haven't seen the ep, so am basing this on descriptions). Plus, i understand that the refugees basically scattered after their arrival, so they lost whatever benefit the Jamestown settlers had from the community (though mitigated, perhaps, some disadvantages). How many former colonials would there be after three years even if the death rate was "only" Jamestown's 88%?
If Hera is the so called mitochondrial eve, then it's likely that all colonial and cylon females of child bearing age died out in short order.
I'd assume the death rate would be near 99% given that the planet's bacterial and parasitic flora evolved independently for 2.5 billion years.
Jamestown may not be a fair comparison for a whole world, given the climate ranges involved.
However, as I understand it "modern" humanity did not emerge from Africa for a few tens of thousands of years post "Colonial landfall" (I will admit I may be wrong here.)
If I am right, however, then where they have settled is certainly not our Earth.
I must admit, "Golgofrinchan" springs to mind when I read about the last few scenes.
Quote from: Fate on March 22, 2009, 04:29:45 PM
If Hera is the so called mitochondrial eve, then it's likely that all colonial and cylon females of child bearing age died out in short order.
I'd assume the death rate would be near 99% given that the planet's bacterial and parasitic flora evolved independently for 2.5 billion years.
I am an idiot when it comes to these things, but does this not mean that the line of female descent is intact to her (every generation had a daughter.) If a contemporary of Hera had only sons, then she would not show up as a "mitochoondrial eve"?
I laughed out loud at the scenes with Japanese robots at the end. I mean come the fuck on... :'(
Quote from: grumbler on March 22, 2009, 04:22:14 PM
Just look at the survival rates for the first few years at, say, Jamestown. 440 of the first 500 people to step ashore there were dead within 3 years. AND they had much more support and infrastructure than the refugees from the Colonies apparently had (haven't seen the ep, so am basing this on descriptions). Plus, i understand that the refugees basically scattered after their arrival, so they lost whatever benefit the Jamestown settlers had from the community (though mitigated, perhaps, some disadvantages). How many former colonials would there be after three years even if the death rate was "only" Jamestown's 88%?
They did scatter, but they did so in small groups, all across the planet. They appeared very ill equipped, everyone was allowed one bag, and they showed lines of people, each carrying only a backpack or duffel sack, trudging off in to the wilderness. I doubt many of them would be left after a few years.
Quote from: Agelastus on March 22, 2009, 04:34:41 PM
Quote from: Fate on March 22, 2009, 04:29:45 PM
If Hera is the so called mitochondrial eve, then it's likely that all colonial and cylon females of child bearing age died out in short order.
I'd assume the death rate would be near 99% given that the planet's bacterial and parasitic flora evolved independently for 2.5 billion years.
I am an idiot when it comes to these things, but does this not mean that the line of female descent is intact to her (every generation had a daughter.) If a contemporary of Hera had only sons, then she would not show up as a "mitochoondrial eve"?
Yes. The sons would receive Hera's mitochondria, but the sons could not pass those mitochondria on to the subsequent generations. The problem is that Hera's mitochondria are unique - either Cylon or Cylon-Colonial (the latter is not naturally possible, but she is some sort of messiah or lab creation...)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freporting.journalism.ku.edu%2Ffall08%2Fadler-noland%2Fassets_c%2F2008%2F12%2FFlying_Spaghetti_Monster_2-thumb-514x514.jpg&hash=6efb4b54afb33dcf89d4a8ed676dd550920da949)
Quote from: grumbler on March 22, 2009, 07:42:14 AM
So what the show demonstrated was that those who died swiftly at the beginning of the war were the lucky ones? The survivors simply chose a complex, long, and painful suicide in the end?
That's kind of a neat answer, though nihilistic. The poster Gral quoted didn't see that coming. Did anyone here?
What the show really shows is that you and a number of others here could write something a lot better. Alll we need is the number of the T.V. exec Moore pitched.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 22, 2009, 03:33:58 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 22, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
Wow. He had no fucking clue where he was going with this story, did he?
It's about the characters!!1!111
and he failed even there, as the ending proves
Eh, I liked the ending with Roslin and Adama. Having Anders turn into a magic computer and fly into the sun wasn't quite as good, tho.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on March 23, 2009, 02:55:59 AM
Eh, I liked the ending with Roslin and Adama.
I can see Adama wanting to spend time with Roslin as she's dieing. But according to the show he never plans on seeing his own son again, which is just ridiculous. And Tigh, his best friend for decades, the man who has stood with Adama through countless disasters, he just abandons as well, without even a good bye. It's just frakkin stupid.
I got the impression that he was planning on kicking the bucket at some point in the very near future, too, but had chosen to lay off the melodrama for once.
I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.
Quote from: KRonn on March 23, 2009, 07:48:09 AM
I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.
I think you are using logic to analyze a plot development not built around logic.
This sounds like a cool series. Should I watch it? :o
Quote from: Martinus on March 23, 2009, 08:01:32 AM
This sounds like a cool series. Should I watch it? :o
I enjoyed the first two seasons (a few eps were clunkers, but the best eps were very good indeed). I couldn't get through the third, and have no intention of even starting again.
I think it would be worth your while to watch the first two seasons, and then decide whether or not to go on.
Buy Space: Above and Beyond instead Marty. At least then you'll get some good action and a sonud war going.
Quote from: Martinus on March 23, 2009, 08:01:32 AM
This sounds like a cool series. Should I watch it? :o
One of the characters is gay.
No right-thinking person should ever watch this abomination. Then again, it seems to be popular with homosexuals. I suppose that abominations should flock together.
Oh do shut up Neil !
-----
I am in mourning. I can't stop reading everything I can find about it. Forum discussions, reviews, essays... Who would have thought a TV show would have more impact on me than real people !? But then people, up close, are always revealed for the scums they are. Whereas here, by proxy, they can be loved or admired... *sigh*
-----
Here's another review, designed for you Vinraith ;)
http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/20/bsg-watch-a-long-time-ago-in-a-galaxy-far-far-away/
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 11:21:27 AM
Oh do shut up Neil !
Why shouldn't I revel in my victory?
Quote from: KRonn on March 23, 2009, 07:48:09 AM
I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.
The problem they created for themselves (again) is that they tried to create an ending where Galactica came to earth 150,000 years in our past. How to do that without leaving any archeological footprint - get everyone to revert to hunter gatherers. But even then they fail because Baltar went on and on about how he knows about farming and the other characters talked about finding good areas to farm - somthing that didnt happen for another 140,000 years give or take.
I think it's ridiculous if they really only had the clothes on their backs kind of thing. I'm sure that several years of living in cramped conditions in space would be weird. But enough to make you even consider going native? No. Also can't see Baltar (or anyone else) not using his scientific acumen, or farming knowledge to do something likely on a big scale that no one on the planet would be doing for 10's of thousands of years to come. It would be a very different world I thnk.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 23, 2009, 12:16:23 PM
I think it's ridiculous if they really only had the clothes on their backs kind of thing. I'm sure that several years of living in cramped conditions in space would be weird. But enough to make you even consider going native? No. Also can't see Baltar (or anyone else) not using his scientific acumen, or farming knowledge to do something likely on a big scale that no one on the planet would be doing for 10's of thousands of years to come. It would be a very different world I thnk.
Indeed. You cannot have it both ways.
Either that used their knowledge to advance human development incredibly (in which case such advancement would be obvious), or they did not, in which they all most died.
But don't think about the plot too hard!
It is all about the characters after all!
I assume they gave up all technology to stop what happened on New Caprica. One nuclear explosion from Cloud 9 gave away the location of the colony to the Cylons. Cavil's faction is still around, right? They'd still want to settle the score...
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2009, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: KRonn on March 23, 2009, 07:48:09 AM
I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.
The problem they created for themselves (again) is that they tried to create an ending where Galactica came to earth 150,000 years in our past. How to do that without leaving any archeological footprint - get everyone to revert to hunter gatherers. But even then they fail because Baltar went on and on about how he knows about farming and the other characters talked about finding good areas to farm - somthing that didnt happen for another 140,000 years give or take.
On the other hand, most of them probably didn't have much knowledge of farming, even if they had the inclination, and Baltar was probably eaten by a cave lion. If a small, scattered population took up subsistance farming at a very low level, with very few tools, and were wiped out to the last child within a decade, would there really be much in the way of archeological evidence?
Nah, turns out that the Colony went into the black hole when it was hit by the nukes, so they are all dead. Supposedly. Apparently all the basestars were there. Right.
That was clear in the original version of the show, but they edited it out because they needed the time to show profound character development, like Starbuck begging Lee to fuck her after Lees brother, her fiancee, passed out drunk.
Can't miss important "character development" like that! Things like explaining the fucking story will just have to go!
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2009, 12:31:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2009, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: KRonn on March 23, 2009, 07:48:09 AM
I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.
The problem they created for themselves (again) is that they tried to create an ending where Galactica came to earth 150,000 years in our past. How to do that without leaving any archeological footprint - get everyone to revert to hunter gatherers. But even then they fail because Baltar went on and on about how he knows about farming and the other characters talked about finding good areas to farm - somthing that didnt happen for another 140,000 years give or take.
On the other hand, most of them probably didn't have much knowledge of farming, even if they had the inclination, and Baltar was probably eaten by a cave lion. If a small, scattered population took up subsistance farming at a very low level, with very few tools, and were wiped out to the last child within a decade, would there really be much in the way of archeological evidence?
Sure, there would be a lot - if they ever uncovered the site in question.
A lot of metal implements where they should not be, for example.
I immediately wondered why hera, for example, wherever they found her, was not found with some bit iof plastic or metal on her a remnant button, *something* that would have survived her life.
Of course, it would not be unlikely that any sites were simply never found, buried under 150,000 years of dirt.
Of course it is all bullshit.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 23, 2009, 12:16:23 PM
I think it's ridiculous if they really only had the clothes on their backs kind of thing. I'm sure that several years of living in cramped conditions in space would be weird. But enough to make you even consider going native? No. Also can't see Baltar (or anyone else) not using his scientific acumen, or farming knowledge to do something likely on a big scale that no one on the planet would be doing for 10's of thousands of years to come. It would be a very different world I thnk.
Society could certainly regress within the 150,000 year period due to disease, famine, or domination/assimilation by the more numerous natives. The colonials didn't land with computers or heavy machinery, so their advanced scientific knowledge is fairly useless. They knew about tylium reactors, not coal/oil and steam/combustion engines.
Quote from: Berkut on March 23, 2009, 12:33:49 PM
Sure, there would be a lot - if they ever uncovered the site in question.
A lot of metal implements where they should not be, for example.
I suppose you're right. Buttons, buckles, those sorts of things. Or did they bring actual tools with them?
QuoteI immediately wondered why hera, for example, wherever they found her, was not found with some bit iof plastic or metal on her a remnant button, *something* that would have survived her life.
Nudism might have become big after the colonists embraced the luddite way.
Quote from: Berkut on March 23, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
But don't think about the plot too hard! It is all about the characters after all!
Indeed. And it is because they do less with their characters that this show is so much inferior to
Babylon 5, even though it had more than triple the budget in real dollars and so could afford real actors and real CGI.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 11:21:27 AM
Oh do shut up Neil !
-----
I am in mourning. I can't stop reading everything I can find about it. Forum discussions, reviews, essays... Who would have thought a TV show would have more impact on me than real people !? But then people, up close, are always revealed for the scums they are. Whereas here, by proxy, they can be loved or admired... *sigh*
-----
Here's another review, designed for you Vinraith ;)
http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/20/bsg-watch-a-long-time-ago-in-a-galaxy-far-far-away/
G.
Apparently there is going to be a spin-off series, and it will have gay sex. According to the FoF people, who are fans, at least. :P
There will be no gay sex on the Scy-fy channel. :P
Quote from: grumbler on March 23, 2009, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 23, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
But don't think about the plot too hard! It is all about the characters after all!
Indeed. And it is because they do less with their characters that this show is so much inferior to Babylon 5, even though it had more than triple the budget in real dollars and so could afford real actors and real CGI.
Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season. Is it really that good? I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 23, 2009, 01:15:31 PM
Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season. Is it really that good? I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.
Watch about half the episodes of season 1 (Grumbler can tell you the ones to skip - personally, I think "Believers" is the episode to avoid at all costs), all of seasons 2-4, and then about half the episodes of season 5 (skipping the idiot Byron plotline being the main goal.)
Quote from: Agelastus on March 23, 2009, 01:21:22 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 23, 2009, 01:15:31 PM
Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season. Is it really that good? I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.
Watch about half the episodes of season 1 (Grumbler can tell you the ones to skip - personally, I think "Believers" is the episode to avoid at all costs), all of seasons 2-4, and then about half the episodes of season 5 (skipping the idiot Byron plotline being the main goal.)
This is correct. Although I havenèt gotten to season 5 in my recent re-watching but I didnèt rememebr it being all that bad. Season 1 by itself was pretty boring except as a really long set-up for the awesomeness of the next three years.
Plus instead of leaving any glaring plot holes, it nicely resolves many of the mysteries that you are first introduced to and a viewing the second time around shows how nicely they were all hinted at. There were several plot lines left dangling (both in B5 and the short-lived sequel Crusade), but I think those were more intended as future stories to tell...
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 23, 2009, 01:15:31 PM
Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season. Is it really that good? I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.
As the others have said, the first season was rocky, for two reasons:
(1) The show was the first to use exclusively CGI, and so the effects left a lot to be desired (but still sucked up enough money that they couldn't afford star-quality guest actors or complex sets), and
(2) Some of the writers still thought it was Star Trek and so wrote stories that didn't contribute to the arc.
In the second season, JMS took over writing completely. Yep, he wrote every story from 216 to 522, with the exception of 508, which was the Neil Gaiman episode.
The difference this makes in a series is amazing, particularly because JMS knew from the start where he was going. There probably is a bit more exposition than any other show-runner would have tolerated, but writing is a real strength of the show and JMS is a much better writer than all of the BSG writers combined. Plus, he has a read respect for his audience and genre, and never throws in cheap resolutions, dei ex machinae, or cutsie stuff. Best of all, he planned from the beginning to tell his story in 110 eps, and in the end did exactly that. There is an accordion effect at the end of the fourth season because when that season started JMS was told that the fourth season would be the last, but the show recovers about ten eps into the fifth season.
You will be amazed at the end when you realize what you knew and when you knew it, only you didn't know you knew it. Prophecy, for instance, is seen several times in the show, and always comes true. At one point, he even uses time travel to a limited extent, but respects the canon completely (none of the "Tribulations" crap). You will also weep unabashedly in the final episode.
What you will also see is how much the modern SF genre owes to B5. BSG was strongest where they followed in the footsteps of that show (just as DS9 was strongest when they did the same) and weakest when they abandoned the tenets JMS set up in B5.
B5 is also extensively covered on the web, so there is lots of supplemental info you can dig into.
Start with In the Beginning and then go to season 2. Catch up with season one later, at your leisure. It has some good stuff along with the bad, but none of it is essential.
But do watch it. It is certainly the best SF show ever done, and one of the best shows ever done, period. There will never be another show like it, because no one will ever again be able to write so many scripts so authoritatively so quickly by themselves.
Quote from: grumbler on March 23, 2009, 01:55:22 PM
You will also weep unabashedly in the final episode.
It's true. :'(
That's a pretty powerful recommendation grumbler. I'll watch it.
Quote from: grumbler on March 23, 2009, 01:55:22 PMYou will also weep unabashedly in the final episode.
I blame Franke's score, personally. <_<
Oh and DP, I tend to think of myself as somewhat less of a B5 fanboy than grumbler, but there's nothing he posted there that I'd disagree with. Don't let the first season put you off.
Quote from: Martinus on March 23, 2009, 12:42:50 PM
Apparently there is going to be a spin-off series, and it will have gay sex. According to the FoF people, who are fans, at least. :P
Caprica (the main planet of the 12 colonies Star system). The show will retell the stories of 2 families, the Greystokes and the Adamas, and their direct/indirect influence on the creation of the cylons.
Before that there will be a 2 hours TV movie called "The Plan", which will be the story of the attack on the colonies from the Cylons' perspective.
As for gay sex on TV... You've watched QaF so you know nothing short of actual pronography can beat that.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 04:11:34 PM
Caprica (the main planet of the 12 colonies Star system). The show will retell the stories of 2 families, the Greystokes and the Adamas, and their direct/indirect influence on the creation of the cylons.
Tarzan is going to be in it?
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
Tarzan is going to be in it?
Oh go away ! :D
-----
Btw I just listened to the last Podcast by Ron Moore (creator & executive producer), a lot of questions get answered that are related to the choices made for the show as a whole and the finale specifically. I wonder if in this day and age these 'addons' aren't necessary to complete a narrative ?
You can hear it here: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast.php
G.
Quote from: Martinus on March 23, 2009, 08:01:32 AM
This sounds like a cool series. Should I watch it? :o
Maybe. Avoid New Caprica and pretend it ends when they find Earth the first time (it's a fake Earth but it's a lot cooler if you make believe it's real).
Quote from: Berkut on March 23, 2009, 12:31:44 PM
Nah, turns out that the Colony went into the black hole when it was hit by the nukes, so they are all dead. Supposedly. Apparently all the basestars were there. Right.
That was clear in the original version of the show, but they edited it out because they needed the time to show profound character development, like Starbuck begging Lee to fuck her after Lees brother, her fiancee, passed out drunk.
Can't miss important "character development" like that! Things like explaining the fucking story will just have to go!
Horribly, those flashbacks are there to show how God/Fate intervened in their lives, so that they'd all be in the fleet. Viewed in that light, they almost work--except it turns out God is really really real, which turns them into fucking garbage and begs the question, "Hey, God, why?"
Quote from: Ideologue on March 23, 2009, 05:03:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 23, 2009, 08:01:32 AM
This sounds like a cool series. Should I watch it? :o
Maybe. Avoid New Caprica and pretend it ends when they find Earth the first time (it's a fake Earth but it's a lot cooler if you make believe it's real).
Let him make his own mind instead of trying to foist your own bilious opinion on him goddamit !
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 05:07:15 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 23, 2009, 05:03:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 23, 2009, 08:01:32 AM
This sounds like a cool series. Should I watch it? :o
Maybe. Avoid New Caprica and pretend it ends when they find Earth the first time (it's a fake Earth but it's a lot cooler if you make believe it's real).
Let him make his own mind instead of trying to foist your own bilious opinion on him goddamit !
G.
He
asked for opinions, Grallon. :P
And in my opinion, New Caprica sucked only a bit less than Daybreak. The episodes coming after the discovery of burned-out Earth are actually pretty decent, but they merely lead up to Daybreak, which is worse than Quebecois independence.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 05:07:15 PM
Let him make his own mind instead of trying to foist your own bilious opinion on him goddamit !
G.
I agree with Ide.
Quote from: garbon on March 23, 2009, 05:13:34 PM
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 05:07:15 PM
Let him make his own mind instead of trying to foist your own bilious opinion on him goddamit !
G.
I agree with Ide.
You're not a reference Garbon, you'd agree with anyone to spite someone else.
Petulent to a *T*
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 04:50:57 PM
Oh go away ! :D
It was a terrible choice of name.
Besides, after my victory in the war, I've taken this thread as my personal fief.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 05:14:56 PM
You're not a reference Garbon, you'd agree with anyone to spite someone else.
Petulent to a *T*
G.
Not really. :huh:
And that's rather unlikely as I looked up "Petulent" and it doesn't seem to be a word. :(
Quote from: garbon on March 23, 2009, 05:54:17 PM
And that's rather unlikely as I looked up "Petulent" and it doesn't seem to be a word. :(
P-E-T-U-L-A-N-T - my mistake ::)
I've decided what you need is a really good ass pounding !
G.
Quote from: Grallon on March 23, 2009, 06:04:05 PM
I've decided what you need is a really good ass pounding !
G.
It's been a bit since I've seen your last misogynistic line (assuming what you said is a take off of: Oh that girl is so frigid/up tight. I bet she just needs a good f_ck!). I'd almost you'd become a better person. :o
Quote from: garbon on March 23, 2009, 06:15:34 PM
I'd almost you'd become a better person. :o
This doesn't make any sense.
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2009, 06:24:09 PM
This doesn't make any sense.
The verb is missing ^_^
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2009, 06:36:49 PM
Please do a better job when posting.
Will do -_-
Just finished listening to the last Ron Moore podcast and I still don't buy the luddite shite ending. Maybe the humans all went mad but the skinjobs are technology, it makes even less sense for them to agree to the suicude pact.
The soundtrack for Season 4.0/4.5 has been released. Say what you will about the show, its plot holes and its shitty ending (an opinion I now share) - the music is simply fantastic, a character all its own!
Bear McCreary is a genius!
G.
-----
Here's a few of my favorties:
Gaeta's Lament (instrumental)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi06mAHmeHo&feature=related
The Resurection Hub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGsNW6ag83E&feature=related
Diaspora Oratorio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJVpcj4o5Ps&feature=related
And of course... The Frakin Song :P or the Cylon Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvV1r7x_R70&feature=related
So what you're saying is that I won?
Excellent.
Quote from: Neil on July 23, 2009, 06:46:38 PM
So what you're saying is that I won?
Excellent.
Starbuck is a neurotic but brilliant female viper pilot :mad:
G.
I haven't finished watching the show yet, but from this thread, I'm surprised that the ending appears to be about what I guessed: an Adam and Eve plot, one of the most cliched SciFi endings ever. :lol:
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 23, 2009, 08:00:23 PM
but from this thread, I'm surprised that the ending appears to be about what I guessed: an Adam and Eve plot, one of the most cliched SciFi endings ever. :lol:
Dude! It's all about the characters! Respect!
:bleeding:
G.
Quote from: Grallon on July 23, 2009, 07:56:49 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 23, 2009, 06:46:38 PM
So what you're saying is that I won?
Excellent.
Starbuck is a neurotic but brilliant female viper pilot :mad:
Struggle as you may, but the ending has given me victory. It revealed that the show was never about story or characters, but merely cashing in with another thoughtless reboot of a 70s franchise.
Look upon your master and despair.
I dislike the use of the term reboot for remaking old tv series or movies. I think they should call it a remake.
Quote from: Neil on July 23, 2009, 08:27:23 PM
Struggle as you may, but the ending has given me victory. It revealed that the show was never about story or characters, but merely cashing in with another thoughtless reboot of a 70s franchise.
Look upon your master and despair.
:lol:
I lay blame solely at the feet of that asswipe Moore who allowed his show to trainwreck then tried to save the day with a few cheap tricks.
I'm still in mourning you know. Listening to that music just emphasized how dear these characters were to me. And try as I might I can't muster any kind of enthousiasm for "
The Plan"... knowing where they all end up.
G.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 23, 2009, 08:34:09 PM
I dislike the use of the term reboot for remaking old tv series or movies. I think they should call it a remake.
Well, a reboot is a bit different than a mere remake. A reboot reconstructs all the stuff leading up to the show, so that the show's premise is fundamentally different. The proposed reboot of Star Trek TOS, for instance, actually had the Enterprise (or, more accurately, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy) actually out there looking for something, as opposed to just exploring for exploration's sake.
Why are the characters so dear to you? I mean, I think there was a gay guy, but I know you're not an idiot with issues like Martinus. Turning Starbuck from a scoundrel with a heart of gold into a psychotic hussy? Turning Adama from a brave, respected leader into an ineffective dolt? Turning Tigh and Boomer from proud, funky black men into killer robots? Turning Baltar from a preening mastermind into a whiny emokid? I don't know if they have an Athena in the new one, but I guarantee that she isn't as hot as Marin Jensen. Instead, they turned the Cylons from iconic villains into sexaroids.
Quote from: Neil on July 23, 2009, 08:47:48 PM
Why are the characters so dear to you? I mean, I think there was a gay guy, but I know you're not an idiot with issues like Martinus. Turning Starbuck from a scoundrel with a heart of gold into a psychotic hussy? Turning Adama from a brave, respected leader into an ineffective dolt? Turning Tigh and Boomer from proud, funky black men into killer robots? Turning Baltar from a preening mastermind into a whiny emokid? I don't know if they have an Athena in the new one, but I guarantee that she isn't as hot as Marin Jensen. Instead, they turned the Cylons from iconic villains into sexaroids.
All of these characters were fathoms deeper and richer than their cartoonish cardboard counterparts from the 70s. But you already know that - you're merely goading, as usual. So I'm left to wonder if you aren't a tease at heart!?
G.
Quote from: Grallon on July 23, 2009, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 23, 2009, 08:47:48 PM
Why are the characters so dear to you? I mean, I think there was a gay guy, but I know you're not an idiot with issues like Martinus. Turning Starbuck from a scoundrel with a heart of gold into a psychotic hussy? Turning Adama from a brave, respected leader into an ineffective dolt? Turning Tigh and Boomer from proud, funky black men into killer robots? Turning Baltar from a preening mastermind into a whiny emokid? I don't know if they have an Athena in the new one, but I guarantee that she isn't as hot as Marin Jensen. Instead, they turned the Cylons from iconic villains into sexaroids.
All of these characters were fathoms deeper and richer than their cartoonish cardboard counterparts from the 70s. But you already know that - you're merely goading, as usual. So I'm left to wonder if you aren't a tease at hear!?
Actually, I've never watched the new show, so the only things I know about the characters are things that I've read on Languish.
Still, the reboot ran much longer than the original series (5 seasons vs. 1), and so it's not surprising that they had more time to flesh out the characters.
I guess. THe problem I have with the concept is that the changes are often so great as to make it unrecognizable from the original source material.
Quote from: grumbler on July 23, 2009, 08:41:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 23, 2009, 08:34:09 PM
I dislike the use of the term reboot for remaking old tv series or movies. I think they should call it a remake.
Well, a reboot is a bit different than a mere remake. A reboot reconstructs all the stuff leading up to the show, so that the show's premise is fundamentally different. The proposed reboot of Star Trek TOS, for instance, actually had the Enterprise (or, more accurately, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy) actually out there looking for something, as opposed to just exploring for exploration's sake.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 23, 2009, 09:05:46 PM
I guess. THe problem I have with the concept is that the changes are often so great as to make it unrecognizable from the original source material.
Generally, those are called "adaptations." Like
Oh, Brother, Where art Thou was an adaptation of
The Odyssey. What reboot did you find so different as to be unrecognizable?
Quote from: grumbler on July 23, 2009, 08:41:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 23, 2009, 08:34:09 PM
I dislike the use of the term reboot for remaking old tv series or movies. I think they should call it a remake.
Well, a reboot is a bit different than a mere remake. A reboot reconstructs all the stuff leading up to the show, so that the show's premise is fundamentally different. The proposed reboot of Star Trek TOS, for instance, actually had the Enterprise (or, more accurately, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy) actually out there looking for something, as opposed to just exploring for exploration's sake.
TOS reboot? :unsure: Explain.
Quote from: Tyr on July 24, 2009, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 23, 2009, 08:41:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 23, 2009, 08:34:09 PM
I dislike the use of the term reboot for remaking old tv series or movies. I think they should call it a remake.
Well, a reboot is a bit different than a mere remake. A reboot reconstructs all the stuff leading up to the show, so that the show's premise is fundamentally different. The proposed reboot of Star Trek TOS, for instance, actually had the Enterprise (or, more accurately, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy) actually out there looking for something, as opposed to just exploring for exploration's sake.
TOS reboot? :unsure: Explain.
You know the movie that came out recently?
Quote from: Tyr on July 24, 2009, 11:32:31 AM
TOS reboot? :unsure: Explain.
There was a TOS reboot proposal in 2004 by Bruce Zabel and Joe Straczinski http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/files/ST2004Reboot.pdf (http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/files/ST2004Reboot.pdf)
Looked pretty good, really.
The current movie is a prequel and we don't know yet if they will actually try to reboot the TV series or just do a series of prequel movies.
Quote from: grumbler on July 24, 2009, 11:14:22 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 24, 2009, 11:32:31 AM
TOS reboot? :unsure: Explain.
There was a TOS reboot proposal in 2004 by Bruce Zabel and Joe Straczinski http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/files/ST2004Reboot.pdf (http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/files/ST2004Reboot.pdf)
Looked pretty good, really.
The current movie is a prequel and we don't know yet if they will actually try to reboot the TV series or just do a series of prequel movies.
Interesting stuff...More sci fi never goes amiss and anything that pisses off the hardcore trekkies is good to me. The comparisons to Ultimate Marvel make me shudder though, I hate that stuff.
My money is on another few films and perhaps a spin-off. I don't think they'll be making a series with that same Enterprise crew (though they haven't really got any stars in there).
I was in Toys R Us the other day though and noticed that they don't seem to have sold much of the merchandising for the film though. That doesn't bode well, not a totally destroyer but a big negative. I hope this was just that one shop.
Quote from: grumbler on July 24, 2009, 11:14:22 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 24, 2009, 11:32:31 AM
TOS reboot? :unsure: Explain.
There was a TOS reboot proposal in 2004 by Bruce Zabel and Joe Straczinski http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/files/ST2004Reboot.pdf (http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/files/ST2004Reboot.pdf)
Looked pretty good, really.
The current movie is a prequel and we don't know yet if they will actually try to reboot the TV series or just do a series of prequel movies.
That sounds like it could have been a feasible reboot as well. some of the concepts are there in the current reboot it looks like.
Apparently Universal Studio has ordered a re-imagining of Battlestar Galactica to be made for the silver screen. Bryan Singer (Valkyrie, Superman) will direct -> ( http://scifiwire.com/2009/08/confirmed-bryan-singer-to.php#more ). And it is to be based on the original series (the 70s one).
Even more catastrophic, Justin Timberlake is apparently going to be Starbuck ->
( http://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/08/14/bryan-singer-justin-timberlake-battlestar-galactica/ )
:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:
The series is not a year out - they'll end up killing this story! :thumbsdown: <_<
G.
Without John Colicos or Lorne Greene there is no going back with BSG.
Quote from: Grallon on August 17, 2009, 11:36:40 AM
Even more catastrophic, Justin Timberlike is apparently going to be Starbuck ->
( http://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/08/14/bryan-singer-justin-timberlake-battlestar-galactica/ )
I don't see Starbuck mentioned there. How do you know he's not going to be Commander Adama?
I cannot imagine the anyone would be stupid enough to bankroll a movie that will directly challenge the loyalties of the people who switched to the "new BSG." The money would be far better spent acquiring a different brand (like an early Honor Harrington or Mote in God's Eye) and making that into a good movie.
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 03:43:19 PM
I cannot imagine the anyone would be stupid enough to bankroll a movie that will directly challenge the loyalties of the people who switched to the "new BSG."
Yeah, seems like a rather strange decision.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert link=topic=15.msg90507#msg90507
I don't see Starbuck mentioned there. How do you know he's not going to be Commander Adama?
True - that is merely the rumor floating around the boards. And as much as I like Timberlake for his hot looks - he can't act his way out of a bun fight.
G.
I'd like to see a Honor Harrington movie, preferably a HBO series so it will get the time it needs.
Quote from: Grallon on August 17, 2009, 11:36:40 AM
The series is not a year out - they'll end up killing this story! :thumbsdown: <_<
The series ended a miserable failure.
Any film where Starbuck is a man would be far, far superior.
Quote from: Neil on August 17, 2009, 07:52:17 PM
The series ended a miserable failure.
By your own admission you never watched it so shut up!
G.
Quote from: Grallon on August 17, 2009, 08:14:18 PM
By your own admission you never watched it so shut up!
Why would I? Starbuck is a man. Anything that erases the series from continuity is a good thing.
Besides, the consensus after the finale seemed to support me.
bah most series finales bite ass. the only ones that stand out as great for me are the end of The Wire, ST:TNG and Seinfeld.
Just a heads up on "The Plan" (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2009/10/battlestar-galactica-the-plan/), a BSG movie that came out on DVD on the 27th.
Average narrative from the POV of the Cylons. The 2 best things: Dean Stockwell as (evil) Brother Cavil and the scene of the actual attack on the colonies.
SPOILERS:
That particular scene is one of the best attack sequence I've seen in a long time.
A massive fleet of basestars jumps close to the colonies and begin positioning themselves in orbit. Meanwhile we see cuts from various characters as doom approaches. Then the hybrids access the defense mainframe and the attack begins. We see the missiles being launched and after entry in the atmosphere splitting into many warheads before hitting their targets. There are the inevitable hot flashes and mushroom clouds of course.
But the best part is when the hybrids begin their slow taly of the destruction in that doomsday voice they have:
"The forests of Tauron are burning - the beaches of Canceron are burning - the oceans of Aquarion are burning - the plains of Leones are burning - the jungles of Scorpion are burning - the courthouses of Libra are burning - the cities of Caprica are burning...
At last, the colonies of Men lay trampled at our feet!"
Shivers down my spine!
G.
Quote from: Grallon on October 30, 2009, 12:17:05 PM
"The forests of Tauron are burning - the beaches of Canceron are burning - the oceans of Aquarion are burning - the plains of Leones are burning - the jungles of Scorpion are burning - the courthouses of Libra are burning - the cities of Caprica are burning...
"Unfortunately, on each of those planets we failed to hit
the other types of climate zones and urban centers. Oops."
Got the BD version from a torrent. Will wait the appropriate moment to watch it. That means maybe tonight :D
Quote from: Faeelin on October 30, 2009, 12:19:31 PM
"Unfortunately, on each of those planets we failed to hit the other types of climate zones and urban centers. Oops."
:lol:
The hybrids aren't all 'there' as you know ;)
The chick who plays Starbuck, Katee Suckmeoff, is gonna be on 24 this year, I think.
I've only gotten into BSG recently...I'm just about ready to start Season 3 now. I do have a question for you.
There' s no doubt that this Starbuck is far more sexually appealing than the original...but what do you think of her? Is it just me, or does she (the charater not necessarily the actress) come across as a bit too butchy. I realize she is supposed to be a fighter pilot after all. My point is...I'm not sure if I find Starbuck super attractive. She'd almost be too intimidating on a date.
Thoughts?
I don't think they were going for super attractive at all.
But no, she is not. I think she is a great character though - a hell of a lot more interesting than the original Starbuck. At least until the show jumped the shark with her driving the shark.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv481%2FSergeix1%2FComicCon2007Day3CKe0Fp4xTOnl.jpg&hash=6b99e1b7a770aa2076360f73b0192ca5c9b3853d)
She is hawt though in real life
Yeah, six is supposed to be the one there for super hotness.
Whilst Boomer is there for 'hidden' hotness- ie. she obviously is hot but everyone in the show is oblivious to this hence viewers feel all special about her.
Starbuck is just there to be a regular woman, sort of yeah she's ok to look at but she doesn't give a shit.
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
:yawn:
Will these be your dying words?
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
A hot feminine man with blond hair and a really nice rack. :perv:
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
and the auto-mobile will never replace the horse and buggy. internet=fad.
wake up grandpa. :p
someone needs to desercate another old tv show, so Neil can get a new schtick already.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 30, 2009, 10:04:30 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
and the auto-mobile will never replace the horse and buggy. internet=fad.
wake up grandpa. :p
someone needs to desercate another old tv show, so Neil can get a new schtick already.
The new "V" series is coming up.
Quote from: citizen k on October 30, 2009, 11:38:54 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 30, 2009, 10:04:30 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
and the auto-mobile will never replace the horse and buggy. internet=fad.
wake up grandpa. :p
someone needs to desercate another old tv show, so Neil can get a new schtick already.
The new "V" series is coming up.
I never watched the old V, so it won't bother me.
When I was a kid, my dad had taped the movie version of the Battlestar Galactica pilot, and that, Star Wars and the Secret of NIMH were my favorite movies when I was a young boy. The new, terrible Battlestar Galactica is deeply offensive to me.
Quote from: citizen k on October 30, 2009, 11:38:54 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 30, 2009, 10:04:30 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 30, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
You are all terrible people. Starbuck is a man.
and the auto-mobile will never replace the horse and buggy. internet=fad.
wake up grandpa. :p
someone needs to desercate another old tv show, so Neil can get a new schtick already.
The new "V" series is coming up.
I've stopped being enraged by the raping of my childhood. I'll just but the DVD sets of the old shows and enjoy the memories.
The V trailers don't look too bad yet. And it will probably easily be better than the second V series (where the Visitors return).
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2009, 10:11:19 AM
The V trailers don't look too bad yet. And it will probably easily be better than the second V series (where the Visitors return).
:yes:
Just got a notice that Caprica will be filming next week in a park near our house.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 01, 2009, 11:02:53 AM
Just got a notice that Caprica will be filming next week in a park near our house.
Cool. We expect nothing less than for you to sneak on set and get us some video.
Just saw the last telemovie, which was sort of a clip show and otherwise didn't feature any of the main cast except for the fat guy (tho it did have Dean Stockwell -- who always delivers and was underutilized in the series -- in spades).
And the plan is... there is no plan!
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 01, 2009, 06:49:31 PM
Just saw the last telemovie, which was sort of a clip show and otherwise didn't feature any of the main cast except for the fat guy (tho it did have Dean Stockwell -- who always delivers and was underutilized in the series -- in spades).
And the plan is... there is no plan!
Because it sucks. Starbuck is a man. Recognize.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 22, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Quoteand if you want creepy to get her genes into "our" gene pool, she was mating with beings that had no language
More likely raped by beings that had no language. Along with a good portion of the female fleet members that didn't die right away. The scattered, starving bands of colonials probably ended up selling off their women to the grunting savages for scraps mammoth meat.
Language has certainly been around for more than 100,000 years. It may have been less compex but it was language.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 02, 2009, 02:07:02 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 22, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Quoteand if you want creepy to get her genes into "our" gene pool, she was mating with beings that had no language
More likely raped by beings that had no language. Along with a good portion of the female fleet members that didn't die right away. The scattered, starving bands of colonials probably ended up selling off their women to the grunting savages for scraps mammoth meat.
Language has certainly been around for more than 100,000 years. It may have been less compex but it was language.
It took you
seven months to come up with that response? :P
So I saw the Plan.
And I liked it.
Of course, one needs to have seen the series, even more, it needs to be fresh in your mind for the best enjoyment.
Not much 'action' per see, but it's still great.
I heard there is another one of these movie coming, and I shall wait.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 02, 2009, 02:07:02 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 22, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Quoteand if you want creepy to get her genes into "our" gene pool, she was mating with beings that had no language
More likely raped by beings that had no language. Along with a good portion of the female fleet members that didn't die right away. The scattered, starving bands of colonials probably ended up selling off their women to the grunting savages for scraps mammoth meat.
Language has certainly been around for more than 100,000 years. It may have been less compex but it was language.
Given the seven months you've been researching this topic I will cede the floor to you on this, the Battlestar Galactica proto humans may indeed have had a language.
Quote from: viper37 on November 02, 2009, 10:49:44 AM
So I saw the Plan.
And I liked it.
Of course, one needs to have seen the series, even more, it needs to be fresh in your mind for the best enjoyment.
Not much 'action' per see, but it's still great.
I heard there is another one of these movie coming, and I shall wait.
It wasn't bad - aside from the first 20 minutes showing us the attack the rest was mostly filler. However I can't shake the feeling of... staleness. The last part of the finale really cheapened the series. :(
Do you have more info on this next movie? Will it be directed by Olmos as well?
G.
Quote from: Faeelin on October 30, 2009, 12:19:31 PM
Quote from: Grallon on October 30, 2009, 12:17:05 PM
"The forests of Tauron are burning - the beaches of Canceron are burning - the oceans of Aquarion are burning - the plains of Leones are burning - the jungles of Scorpion are burning - the courthouses of Libra are burning - the cities of Caprica are burning...
"Unfortunately, on each of those planets we failed to hit the other types of climate zones and urban centers. Oops."
Its abotu the characters, not the MIRV accuracy.
Quote from: grumbler on November 02, 2009, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 02, 2009, 02:07:02 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 22, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
Quoteand if you want creepy to get her genes into "our" gene pool, she was mating with beings that had no language
More likely raped by beings that had no language. Along with a good portion of the female fleet members that didn't die right away. The scattered, starving bands of colonials probably ended up selling off their women to the grunting savages for scraps mammoth meat.
Language has certainly been around for more than 100,000 years. It may have been less compex but it was language.
It took you seven months to come up with that response? :P
First time I read the thread.
So, I'm still catching up to the show, and find myself near the end of Season 3.
Just one thing to say: What The Frak? Starbuck?? :cry:
Starbuck is a man, and I won this thread.
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 07:52:33 AM
Starbuck is a man, and I won this thread.
:jaron:
G.
I did. In the end, everyone agreed that the new Battlestar was pointless and weak.
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:12:47 AM
I did. In the end, everyone agreed that the new Battlestar was pointless and weak.
But only in the end, and the reason it was weak had nothing to do with Starbuck being a man. Starbuck as a woman was a hell of a lot better character than the original Starbuck.
BSG will forever be a show that would have been so much better had the entire writing cast been killed in a freak accident after, oh, season 3.5 or so.
Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2009, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:12:47 AM
I did. In the end, everyone agreed that the new Battlestar was pointless and weak.
But only in the end, and the reason it was weak had nothing to do with Starbuck being a man. Starbuck as a woman was a hell of a lot better character than the original Starbuck.
BSG will forever be a show that would have been so much better had the entire writing cast been killed in a freak accident after, oh, season 3.5 or so.
Sorry, but once you gave up on the show in the end, you ceded all your rights to have an opinion to me.
Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2009, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: Neil on December 15, 2009, 09:12:47 AM
I did. In the end, everyone agreed that the new Battlestar was pointless and weak.
But only in the end, and the reason it was weak had nothing to do with Starbuck being a man. Starbuck as a woman was a hell of a lot better character than the original Starbuck.
BSG will forever be a show that would have been so much better had the entire writing cast been killed in a freak accident after, oh, season 3.5 or so.
You are mostly correct.
I have two more episodes in Season 3 (the trial, I think) to watch.
Are you saying Season 4 sucks?
Quote from: Josephus on December 15, 2009, 09:42:24 AM
I have two more episodes in Season 3 (the trial, I think) to watch.
Are you saying Season 4 sucks?
No, but the overall plot arc is definitely starting to jump the shark at that point. Or rather, it is jumping something, and the writers have no fucking clue what, or where it is going to land, and are in full on "make shit up as we go and pray we can figure out a sane way to make it all work later" mode.
And of course they utterly fail to make it all work later, in a rather spectacular fashion. And not cool spectacular either.
Quote from: Josephus on December 15, 2009, 09:42:24 AM
I have two more episodes in Season 3 (the trial, I think) to watch.
Are you saying Season 4 sucks?
Yes, it sucks.
Quote from: Josephus on December 15, 2009, 09:42:24 AM
I have two more episodes in Season 3 (the trial, I think) to watch.
Are you saying Season 4 sucks?
Some people liked it, but for me the series ends mid way through season 3
Quote from: Josephus on December 15, 2009, 09:42:24 AM
I have two more episodes in Season 3 (the trial, I think) to watch.
Are you saying Season 4 sucks?
Many of the episodes of season 4.0 are actually quite good - on their own. The problem is the 'plan' - the overarching theme which becomes more and more incoherent. To the point where some characters are written out of character to fit this paint-by-number main arc. Still there are some really great episodes. Naturally you should watch it before you come here asking others to validate your choices...
G.
Quote from: Grallon on December 15, 2009, 12:38:22 PM
Quote from: Josephus on December 15, 2009, 09:42:24 AM
I have two more episodes in Season 3 (the trial, I think) to watch.
Are you saying Season 4 sucks?
Many of the episodes of season 4.0 are actually quite good - on their own. The problem is the 'plan' - the overarching theme which becomes more and more incoherent. To the point where some characters are written out of character to fit this paint-by-number main arc. Still there are some really great episodes. Naturally you should watch it before you come here asking others to validate your choices...
G.
Indeed. The problem is strictly with the overall plot progression, which just becomes utterly inane. Still some fun shows though, if you can just ignore that.
I enjoyed watching it just because I was holding out some vain hope that they would somehow make it all work in the end, even while I was pretty certain there was no way they would be able to do so.
'K...not gonna read anymore till I finish. Will start Season 4 next week.
It's a pity that Stargate: Universe seems to have collected the same style as BSG. All zooming cameras and unpleasant characters without the hopeless tension.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 15, 2009, 02:11:41 PM
It's a pity that Stargate: Universe seems to have collected the same style as BSG. All zooming cameras and unpleasant characters without the hopeless tension.
Yeah, I was very optimistic about SG:U, but it seems to be heading nowhere very quickly
Btw, for those interested, the prequel series to BSG - Caprica - has begun airing last friday (jan. 29th) on Syfy.
I had forgotten about it until I saw a mention about it online. In any case I won't encourage Ron Moore any longer after the debacle of BSG's finale.
G.
Is there some reason they use big gas-powered jeeps but have FTL travel, or very advanced anti-radiation equipment but nothing to fight breast cancer? Just started watching the show.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 03, 2010, 11:08:18 AM
Is there some reason they use big gas-powered jeeps but have FTL travel, or very advanced anti-radiation equipment but nothing to fight breast cancer? Just started watching the show.
Because it either (1) serves a plot point, or (2) looks cool.
I don't think it was ever explained why random ships had FTL drives when other solar systems were unexplored. I think the writers just assumed no one would notice that the builders and operators of the ships had installed these large, useless devices just in time for the plot to exploit those installations - or that tiny airplane-equivelent ships like the president was on had FTL, while big ocean-liner-type ships did not.
Quote from: Grallon on February 03, 2010, 09:28:08 AM
Btw, for those interested, the prequel series to BSG - Caprica - has begun airing last friday (jan. 29th) on Syfy.
I had forgotten about it until I saw a mention about it online. In any case I won't encourage Ron Moore any longer after the debacle of BSG's finale.
G.
It even has its own specially designated thread which YOU started last April ;) :contract:
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
I don't think it was ever explained why random ships had FTL drives when other solar systems were unexplored. I think the writers just assumed no one would notice that the builders and operators of the ships had installed these large, useless devices just in time for the plot to exploit those installations -
there can be any number of reason for that. Like, oh say, the same reason we have nuclear powered sub, nuclear powered aircraft carrier, but no nuclear powered cars?
Quoteor that tiny airplane-equivelent ships like the president was on had FTL, while big ocean-liner-type ships did not.
government plane vs private local cruiser.
Starbuck is a man.
You know, after rewatching my DVDs of the original Battlestar Galactica, I come away refreshed and knowing that all you who make yourselves unclean with this new abomination will suffer for your affront to God and man.
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2010, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
I don't think it was ever explained why random ships had FTL drives when other solar systems were unexplored. I think the writers just assumed no one would notice that the builders and operators of the ships had installed these large, useless devices just in time for the plot to exploit those installations -
there can be any number of reason for that. Like, oh say, the same reason we have nuclear powered sub, nuclear powered aircraft carrier, but no nuclear powered cars?
Close. It would be like having nuclear reactors installed in cars that are powered by gasoline engines. The reason for having nuclear power in submarines is because the submarine
uses the nuclear reactor, so it is entirely unlike the FTL drives on Colonial ships that never leave the system where the Twelve Colonies are located..
Quotegovernment plane vs private local cruiser.
Unpersuasive, even presuming that Roslin was on a government-owned craft (which I don't think was established, especially as there were non-government people aboard her ship). Why would the government put FTL in a small, short-ranged vessal to begin with? An ocean-liner vessal might be explained as wanting to take tourists outside the system (even though no one ever went outside the system, apparently) but not the equivalent of an airplane. A nuclear reactor on Air force One makes less sense than one on the Queen Victoria.
On the FTL thing: the way I rationalized it to myself was that ships using FTL within the Colonial solar system vs. ships that didn't was similar to flying across the Atlantic vs. taking a ship -- the former takes hours, while the latter takes several days. The reason the FTL drives weren't more prevalent was because of the prohibitive cost of whatever that mineral was that the drives required to run (I forget what it was & am not interested in looking it up).
Or something. It's thin, but I have an easier time of buying the above than buying that Starbuck was a ghost...
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
Because it either (1) serves a plot point, or (2) looks cool.
I don't think it was ever explained why random ships had FTL drives when other solar systems were unexplored. I think the writers just assumed no one would notice that the builders and operators of the ships had installed these large, useless devices just in time for the plot to exploit those installations - or that tiny airplane-equivelent ships like the president was on had FTL, while big ocean-liner-type ships did not.
Was it ever established how long it took to get from one end of a solar system to the other STL?
For us going from one end of the solar system to the other takes a good few years, being able to do it in minutes would be decent.
But that they would need liners if they can just hop between planets in moments...well thats another question
edit- well not cruise ships, they're meant to be slow. But the plane replacements like what Roslin was on, they're clearly cruising through space rather than just FTLing
The military had gone outside of their home system in the series. They just apparently weren't interested in exploring very far for some reason.
Quote from: Tyr on February 03, 2010, 03:29:11 PM
Was it ever established how long it took to get from one end of a solar system to the other STL?
For us going from one end of the solar system to the other takes a good few years, being able to do it in minutes would be decent.
But that they would need liners if they can just hop between planets in moments...well thats another question
edit- well not cruise ships, they're meant to be slow. But the plane replacements like what Roslin was on, they're clearly cruising through space rather than just FTLing
Allegedly, and I have no idea where the original reference for this is from, a fan used Roslin's ship's movements in the mini-series to calculate that the Colonial vessels were capable of about 13% of light speed when travelling sub-light, with Vipers being able to make slightly more than that.
Since I picked this up from a fanfiction site, I then immediately had to groan when these speeds were described as being used in battle...which is quite definitely never shown on screen. Since 13% of light speed is about 39000 kps, I'm pretty certain you'd flash straight past the Galactica without the human eye being able to register it if they were fighting at those speeds.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 03, 2010, 04:54:41 PM
Allegedly, and I have no idea where the original reference for this is from, a fan used Roslin's ship's movements in the mini-series to calculate that the Colonial vessels were capable of about 13% of light speed when travelling sub-light, with Vipers being able to make slightly more than that.
Since I picked this up from a fanfiction site, I then immediately had to groan when these speeds were described as being used in battle...which is quite definitely never shown on screen. Since 13% of light speed is about 39000 kps, I'm pretty certain you'd flash straight past the Galactica without the human eye being able to register it if they were fighting at those speeds.
The starfighter concept is rather unrealistic anyways, at least as presented. World War II is never coming back.
Quote from: Neil on February 03, 2010, 07:53:37 PM
The starfighter concept is rather unrealistic anyways, at least as presented. World War II is never coming back.
That's true of most Science Fiction Starfighter concepts though. I can't, offhand, think of one that stands up to close scrutiny.
I think the single most frustrating thing I have ever read in the last few months was an old discussion over on the spacebattles forums where they spoke, in all seriousness, about originial series Colonial Vipers being able to engage in combat at supralight velocities. Even ignoring the fuzzy terminology of the original show, canon (as in what is shown on screen) rather proves the opposite...a number of times fighters approach their target at an angle, and the apparent closing velocities look to be in the hundreds of meters per second at most, not GREATER THAN 300000 KILOMETERS PER SECOND.
And what frustrated me even more was that the discussion was three years old, so etiquette stopped me from posting what idiots I thought they were.
Battletech.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 03, 2010, 03:50:42 PM
The military had gone outside of their home system in the series. They just apparently weren't interested in exploring very far for some reason.
Oh, I can understand why military ships might have FTL, especially the Battlestars, if one makes the assumption that the Colonial navy thought the Cylons might be out-system. It is merely every other ship in the civilian fleet for which it makes no sense. That would be like making random cargo ships and airplanes on earth submersible.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 03, 2010, 08:22:05 PM
That's true of most Science Fiction Starfighter concepts though. I can't, offhand, think of one that stands up to close scrutiny.
The B5 one is okay, though it suffers from actually considering physics in the design. Even They moved away from the cool design into something starfighterish in the later models, though.
I liked the launching system as well.
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2010, 10:00:56 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 03, 2010, 08:22:05 PM
That's true of most Science Fiction Starfighter concepts though. I can't, offhand, think of one that stands up to close scrutiny.
The B5 one is okay, though it suffers from actually considering physics in the design. Even They moved away from the cool design into something starfighterish in the later models, though.
I liked the launching system as well.
The Star Fury has an excellent design for general spacecraft, but it'd be a little lacking as a combat unit. WWII is never coming back.
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
Is this the geekiest thread going right now? And Jaron isn't even posting. :huh:
Quote from: Queequeg on February 04, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
Two drunk hillbillies with shotguns.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 04, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
The descriptions in these books are the ones I've read that I consider most likely. He deals well with the problem of light-speed transmission of information, and how you are trying to outguess your opponent right up to the moment of contact.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dauntless-Lost-Fleet-Book-1/dp/0441014186/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265292054&sr=1-4
Although even this author cannot resist having fleets interpenetrate, even if for only microseconds. The odds against this actually happening must be astronomical.
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2010, 10:00:56 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 03, 2010, 08:22:05 PM
That's true of most Science Fiction Starfighter concepts though. I can't, offhand, think of one that stands up to close scrutiny.
The B5 one is okay, though it suffers from actually considering physics in the design. Even They moved away from the cool design into something starfighterish in the later models, though.
I liked the launching system as well.
I like the Starfury design myself; it LOOKS right, which is half the battle for a proper suspension of disbelief. And the launching system of B5 too (although it did make me wonder how exactly they were being stored in the Omegas hangar bays.)
The trouble, in my opinion, comes when you realise that a Starfury has to close to knife range to engage an opponent, given the sheer size of space. There was a battle in the film about the Earth-Minbari war which demonstrated this perfectly (long range energy weapons clawed the fighters out of space before they could close.) In the series, it seemed that they forced everybody to engage at knife range to get a better special effects shot, which made no sense given the armaments packages of some of the capital ships in the series. They seem to have artificially limited sensor technology as a deus-ex-machina move in the same way the early Battletech game did.
I really liked the battles in B5, by the way, but they don't entirely stand up to logical scrutiny. They'd almost have been better off if they'd shown that everybody was using projectile weapons and missiles as they are in the new Battlestar Galactica. That would explain the knife-range combat shown perfectly.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 04, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
:lol: So it would look more like Midway than Jutland? Midway featured far longer-ranged ordnance (though ordinances were probably no longer in 1942 than 1916) than Jutland, and the success or lack thereof in guessing where the enemy was drove the decision-making in the battle.
I think Weber in his Honor Harrington books does a decent job of trying to make space combat realistic, though he leaves out some obvious counter-ploys (presumably because they would ruin the drama).
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2010, 09:16:52 AM
I think Weber in his Honor Harrington books does a decent job of trying to make space combat realistic, though he leaves out some obvious counter-ploys (presumably because they would ruin the drama).
He bases his space combat in an environment where as long as ships are using their main drive system, you can always tell exactly where they are using a particular type of FTL sensor (barring countermeasures.) This could almost be described as a deus-ex-machina to get round the problems of being limited to light-speed transmission of data at best.
With that proviso though, I agree that his space combat scenes are very good. Even the one case I can think of of a fleet effectively interpenetrating is carried off in believable fashion (at Fourth Yeltsin.)
The books I pointed at don't have the "get out of jail free" card of supralight sensors though, which is why I find their descriptions so interesting.
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2010, 09:16:52 AM
I think Weber in his Honor Harrington books does a decent job of trying to make space combat realistic, though he leaves out some obvious counter-ploys (presumably because they would ruin the drama).
And the infodumps to explain them would double the size of the book.
As the battle raged, Honor turned to her flag captain and spent an hour explaining her stragtegy. BLAH BLAH BLAH Treecats BLAH BLAH BLAH Grav Lance BLAH BLAH BLAH Haven socialists suck BLAH BLAH BLAH Internal Manticore politics BLAH!
BLAH x250
Quote from: Agelastus on February 04, 2010, 09:14:28 AM
The trouble, in my opinion, comes when you realise that a Starfury has to close to knife range to engage an opponent, given the sheer size of space. There was a battle in the film about the Earth-Minbari war which demonstrated this perfectly (long range energy weapons clawed the fighters out of space before they could close.) In the series, it seemed that they forced everybody to engage at knife range to get a better special effects shot, which made no sense given the armaments packages of some of the capital ships in the series. They seem to have artificially limited sensor technology as a deus-ex-machina move in the same way the early Battletech game did.
The Minbari didn't have to close to fight, and they didn't do so. Earthforce ships had to, because their weapons were particle weapons and thus could be intercepted if the range was long enough (though in cases where the target had no interceptors, the show rightly had engagements occur at much longer ranges). There is no doubt, though, that ships were shown closer than pure physics would necessitate, in order to make the shots look better.
QuoteI really liked the battles in B5, by the way, but they don't entirely stand up to logical scrutiny. They'd almost have been better off if they'd shown that everybody was using projectile weapons and missiles as they are in the new Battlestar Galactica. That would explain the knife-range combat shown perfectly.
Actually, the BG battles weren't particularly realistic, IMO. Getting hit by nuclear weapons and shrugging them off made no sense to me. The fighters behaved pretty much exactly like atmospheric fighters.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 04, 2010, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2010, 09:16:52 AM
I think Weber in his Honor Harrington books does a decent job of trying to make space combat realistic, though he leaves out some obvious counter-ploys (presumably because they would ruin the drama).
And the infodumps to explain them would double the size of the book.
As the battle raged, Honor turned to her flag captain and spent an hour explaining her stragtegy. BLAH BLAH BLAH Treecats BLAH BLAH BLAH Grav Lance BLAH BLAH BLAH Haven socialists suck BLAH BLAH BLAH Internal Manticore politics BLAH!
BLAH x250
Yeah, the later books certainly bogged down with these and other manifestations of author ego-gratification.
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2010, 10:05:52 AM
Actually, the BG battles weren't particularly realistic, IMO. Getting hit by nuclear weapons and shrugging them off made no sense to me. The fighters behaved pretty much exactly like atmospheric fighters.
I think the current government's of Earth would love to get their hands on the formula for Galactica's armour. :D
Especially as the ship looks as if most of its armour is missing, and it still stood up to a nuclear strike! :rolleyes:
I didn't exactly say they did the battles well. I said they made the distances they fought at on screen make sense by limiting themselves to non energy weaponry. Of course, the FTL drive they used would also encourage close range combats as well!
It's very difficult to have battles in space, as an effective defence is nearly impossible.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 12:33:43 PM
It's very difficult to have battles in space, as an effective defence is nearly impossible.
Expound on this point, please?
After all, at the ranges space combat is likely to be fought at, simple movement ought to be a good defence, unless you are tied down defending a fixed vector/point. I would have thought mounting an effective attack would have been the harder task.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 04, 2010, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 12:33:43 PM
It's very difficult to have battles in space, as an effective defence is nearly impossible.
Expound on this point, please?
After all, at the ranges space combat is likely to be fought at, simple movement ought to be a good defence, unless you are tied down defending a fixed vector/point. I would have thought mounting an effective attack would have been the harder task.
I'm speaking strategically. In space, it is trivially easy to destroy absolutely anything relatively large and immobile, like a planet.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 04, 2010, 09:05:50 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 04, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
The descriptions in these books are the ones I've read that I consider most likely. He deals well with the problem of light-speed transmission of information, and how you are trying to outguess your opponent right up to the moment of contact.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dauntless-Lost-Fleet-Book-1/dp/0441014186/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265292054&sr=1-4
Although even this author cannot resist having fleets interpenetrate, even if for only microseconds. The odds against this actually happening must be astronomical.
Good books.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 04, 2010, 12:05:34 PM
I didn't exactly say they did the battles well. I said they made the distances they fought at on screen make sense by limiting themselves to non energy weaponry. Of course, the FTL drive they used would also encourage close range combats as well!
I must admit that, while I enjoyed the whole debate around B5's space battlel physics, I never even considered that for BSG. BSG simply wasn't the kind of show one would even think about evaluating in that context (much like the Star Wars movies or Star Trek); the physics seemed purely there to serve the story. And that is fine with me, actually. I prefer writers who make the attempt to stay honest with the physics, but understand why few do.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
I'm speaking strategically. In space, it is trivially easy to destroy absolutely anything relatively large and immobile, like a planet.
Agreed. However, most wars on Earth aren't fought to the point of mutual annihilation, so I suspect that our descendants, should they ever colonise other worlds and develop an effective method of transiting between said worlds at FTL speeds, will still have to develop methods of actually fighting in space, even if these engagements only take place in close proximity to said colonised worlds.
There are, of course, two big (and given current science, insoluble) "ifs" there.
Hey, Grumbler, have you ever tried this out?
http://www.hw2bsg.org/
I think there's a Babylon 5 mod for the game as well, although I think it was never finished.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 04, 2010, 05:31:01 PM
Agreed. However, most wars on Earth aren't fought to the point of mutual annihilation, so I suspect that our descendants, should they ever colonise other worlds and develop an effective method of transiting between said worlds at FTL speeds, will still have to develop methods of actually fighting in space, even if these engagements only take place in close proximity to said colonised worlds.
There are, of course, two big (and given current science, insoluble) "ifs" there.
What are they fighting for? Unmanned satellites would be much more effective in close proximity to colonized worlds, if all one wants to do is control space so as to allow one's land forces to come and go as they please (and to blast the surface with the occasional Rod From God). If you're looking for mass destruction, long range missiles launched from the outer reaches of the solar system and accelerated on target by a course-correcting computer would be far more useful than a fleet of space warships.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 06:21:23 PM
hat are they fighting for? Unmanned satellites would be much more effective in close proximity to colonized worlds, if all one wants to do is control space so as to allow one's land forces to come and go as they please (and to blast the surface with the occasional Rod From God). If you're looking for mass destruction, long range missiles launched from the outer reaches of the solar system and accelerated on target by a course-correcting computer would be far more useful than a fleet of space warships.
Earthlike planets are rare, no? Why wouldn't they be worth controlling in their own right?
Quote from: Faeelin on February 04, 2010, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 06:21:23 PM
hat are they fighting for? Unmanned satellites would be much more effective in close proximity to colonized worlds, if all one wants to do is control space so as to allow one's land forces to come and go as they please (and to blast the surface with the occasional Rod From God). If you're looking for mass destruction, long range missiles launched from the outer reaches of the solar system and accelerated on target by a course-correcting computer would be far more useful than a fleet of space warships.
Earthlike planets are rare, no? Why wouldn't they be worth controlling in their own right?
Certainly in the Solar System. Outside, it's impossible to say.
So, if you have an earthlike planet, and you want to retain control over it. How would you go about doing that?
Who needs planets? Once you've gone to all the trouble of pulling yourself out of a gravity well, why jump into another one?
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:24:52 PM
Who needs planets? Once you've gone to all the trouble of pulling yourself out of a gravity well, why jump into another one?
So that you can have a more familiar setting for drama and adventure.
Captain Kirk wrestling with the Gorn would have looked stupid if it happened in the corridor of a space station.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 12:33:43 PM
It's very difficult to have battles in space, as an effective defence is nearly impossible.
The History Channel's The Universe "Space Wars Episode"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WkJ0ib0w9M
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:24:52 PM
Who needs planets? Once you've gone to all the trouble of pulling yourself out of a gravity well, why jump into another one?
Many people find it convenient to live in a place that doesn't seek your death at every opportunity.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 08:32:57 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:24:52 PM
Who needs planets? Once you've gone to all the trouble of pulling yourself out of a gravity well, why jump into another one?
Many people find it convenient to live in a place that doesn't seek your death at every opportunity.
I thought you sought the death of "everyman" at every opportunity.
Is my image of Neil: obsolete? :(
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 08:32:57 PM
Many people find it convenient to live in a place that doesn't seek your death at every opportunity.
It is, however, more convenient if others are seeking your death at every opportunity, which is the topic at hand. If you're on a space habitat and someone launches a relativistic projectile at you, the solution is: move. If you're on a planet and that happens, the solution is: die.
There are fun things to do on planets.
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
There are fun things to do on planets.
Everything's better in zero-g.
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2010, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 08:32:57 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:24:52 PM
Who needs planets? Once you've gone to all the trouble of pulling yourself out of a gravity well, why jump into another one?
Many people find it convenient to live in a place that doesn't seek your death at every opportunity.
I thought you sought the death of "everyman" at every opportunity.
Is my image of Neil: obsolete? :(
I am not everyone.
That said, I don't seek the death of every man, just 'everyman'.
Quote from: ulmont on February 04, 2010, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
There are fun things to do on planets.
Everything's better in zero-g.
I imagine your menstrual flow is more problematic. Or just taking a crap.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 08:32:57 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:24:52 PM
Who needs planets? Once you've gone to all the trouble of pulling yourself out of a gravity well, why jump into another one?
Many people find it convenient to live in a place that doesn't seek your death at every opportunity.
And yet plenty of people live in Detroit.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:42:47 PM
It is, however, more convenient if others are seeking your death at every opportunity, which is the topic at hand. If you're on a space habitat and someone launches a relativistic projectile at you, the solution is: move. If you're on a planet and that happens, the solution is: die.
Except you'll never know that the projectile is incoming, and the planet is much more robust in terms of ability to support life than a space habitat. Explosive decompression is a bitch.
Quote from: ulmont on February 04, 2010, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
There are fun things to do on planets.
Everything's better in zero-g.
Like bone loss. To say nothing about how untested something like, say, gestation is in zero-g.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 09:09:33 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:42:47 PM
It is, however, more convenient if others are seeking your death at every opportunity, which is the topic at hand. If you're on a space habitat and someone launches a relativistic projectile at you, the solution is: move. If you're on a planet and that happens, the solution is: die.
Except you'll never know that the projectile is incoming, and the planet is much more robust in terms of ability to support life than a space habitat. Explosive decompression is a bitch.
Well if evasion is impossible, it makes more sense to keep your population spread out in hundreds or thousands of habitats than to huddle together on a few planets. It's much harder to wipe out your nation/species/etc. that way.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 09:09:33 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 04, 2010, 08:42:47 PM
It is, however, more convenient if others are seeking your death at every opportunity, which is the topic at hand. If you're on a space habitat and someone launches a relativistic projectile at you, the solution is: move. If you're on a planet and that happens, the solution is: die.
Except you'll never know that the projectile is incoming, and the planet is much more robust in terms of ability to support life than a space habitat. Explosive decompression is a bitch.
Well if evasion is impossible, it makes more sense to keep your population spread out in hundreds or thousands of habitats than to huddle together on a few planets. It's much harder to wipe out your nation/species/etc. that way.
That very much depends on the perceived value of habitable worlds.
Quote from: Neil on February 04, 2010, 09:09:33 PM
Except you'll never know that the projectile is incoming, and the planet is much more robust in terms of ability to support life than a space habitat. Explosive decompression is a bitch.
???
Light is still faster than a projectile travelling at relativistic speeds and if we are positing a future without such esoteric items as shields, then the projectile would have to be pretty large and solid lest it be destroyed by contact with a small particle. Science Fiction portrays such projectiles as a threat because planets are stationary targets, and such projectiles would be almost impossible to intercept. A habitat could see it and move.
I quite like the idea of creating biospheres inside hollowed out asteroids, but the effort involved is truly frightening.
Quote from: grumbler on February 03, 2010, 03:10:19 PM
Close. It would be like having nuclear reactors installed in cars that are powered by gasoline engines. The reason for having nuclear power in submarines is because the submarine uses the nuclear reactor, so it is entirely unlike the FTL drives on Colonial ships that never leave the system where the Twelve Colonies are located..
In the original series, the BSG also had an FTL drive.
And we know the Cylons weren't in the same star system, nor do we know when they discovered FTL travel. It's possible it came shortly prior to the last Cylon war. It's also possible the 12 colonies had started to explore surrounding star systems but found nothing worthwhile there. Sort of like the beginning of exploration for Earth. The Romans could have gone to colonize many places, but they didn't, because they had what they needed closer to home. Same with the Feudal lords, actually. Once they ran out of land in Europe, they went on to conquer the Middle East. Once they were thrown out of there, they started to seek alternate ways to get what they need.
Yet, they had boats that could cross the oceans.
QuoteWhy would the government put FTL in a small, short-ranged vessal to begin with?
For the same reason newer small cars may have ABS breaks while older, bigger cars may not?
And as I remember the pilot, the FTL drive on that ship wasn't entirely functionnal, as Lee Adama had to go to the cargo bay to activate it.
Quote
An ocean-liner vessal might be explained as wanting to take tourists outside the system (even though no one ever went outside the system, apparently) but not the equivalent of an airplane. A nuclear reactor on Air force One makes less sense than one on the Queen Victoria.
Well, the liner could be an older model, and the owning company never judged it relevant to retrofit it with nuclear drives seeing they only offer cruises around the 12 planets.
And there's no nuclear reactor on Air Force One because the tech has not evolved enough to be safe there.
Just as we would have nuclear powered cars&trucks&trains if the tech was evolved enough to be safe and practicle.
QuoteIn the original series, the BSG also had an FTL drive.
I can't remember that.
Didn't original BSG just have the ships go very very fast?
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2010, 10:05:52 AM
The Minbari didn't have to close to fight, and they didn't do so. Earthforce ships had to, because their weapons were particle weapons and thus could be intercepted if the range was long enough (though in cases where the target had no interceptors, the show rightly had engagements occur at much longer ranges). There is no doubt, though, that ships were shown closer than pure physics would necessitate, in order to make the shots look better.
The Minbari had small fighters too.
Quote
Actually, the BG battles weren't particularly realistic, IMO. Getting hit by nuclear weapons and shrugging them off made no sense to me. The fighters behaved pretty much exactly like atmospheric fighters.
Consider Star Trek then, where they have proton&quantum torpedoes, much more powerful than nuclear weapons, yet they can resist it.
Quote from: Tyr on February 05, 2010, 11:50:03 AM
I can't remember that.
Didn't original BSG just have the ships go very very fast?
Only the Battlestar had an FTL drive, the fleet didn't.
And they used it for the episodes when they thought they found earth, wich was actually under some kind of military dictatorship.
Or maybe I'm wrong, and it was in the second season, when they landed on our Earth, thinking it was their Earth.
Oh what a great show that was... or maybe not :P
Quote from: Agelastus on February 05, 2010, 08:58:54 AM
???
Light is still faster than a projectile travelling at relativistic speeds and if we are positing a future without such esoteric items as shields, then the projectile would have to be pretty large and solid lest it be destroyed by contact with a small particle. Science Fiction portrays such projectiles as a threat because planets are stationary targets, and such projectiles would be almost impossible to intercept. A habitat could see it and move.
I quite like the idea of creating biospheres inside hollowed out asteroids, but the effort involved is truly frightening.
How do you detect the oncoming projectile?
Quote from: Neil on February 05, 2010, 02:13:16 PM
How do you detect the oncoming projectile?
Allowing for redshift issues (I think that's the right end of the Spectrum) and the complete lack of atmospheric effects, stellar occlusion would seem to work for an optical based system.
Alternatively, one deploys a (very large and very expensive) shell of radar installations linked back to the vulnerable habitat by laser based communication. I doubt a relativistic projectile would be capable of altering course, so not much movement would be required. I would imagine that the evasion would have to be automatic though, rather than let humans make the decisions (I doubt humans would have time to do so.)
That's two ways I can come up with in sixty seconds. I am sure there are more.
Quote from: viper37 on February 05, 2010, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 05, 2010, 11:50:03 AM
I can't remember that.
Didn't original BSG just have the ships go very very fast?
Only the Battlestar had an FTL drive, the fleet didn't.
And they used it for the episodes when they thought they found earth, wich was actually under some kind of military dictatorship.
Or maybe I'm wrong, and it was in the second season, when they landed on our Earth, thinking it was their Earth.
Oh what a great show that was... or maybe not :P
By inference, they had a realspace FTL drive on all the ships of the fleet (episodes speak of crossing to a new Galaxy, even, but the effects suggest they passed through a large and dense dust cloud.) Visual evidence from the first five episodes (the movie and the "Lost Planet of the Gods" episodes) indicate that they had crossed an interstellar distance in a period of a few months at most, more likely a few weeks.)
On screen evidence has the Galactica going to "Light Speed" in the episode "Experiment in Terra". Given the impossibility of doing this, one must curse the loose terminology of a series that strongly implied that one man fighters were equipped with a drive capable of maintaining FTL speeds.
Of course, that's where a lot of the nonsense on boards about fighters engaging in FTL combat comes from.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 05, 2010, 03:02:03 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 05, 2010, 02:13:16 PM
How do you detect the oncoming projectile?
Allowing for redshift issues (I think that's the right end of the Spectrum) and the complete lack of atmospheric effects, stellar occlusion would seem to work for an optical based system.
Alternatively, one deploys a (very large and very expensive) shell of radar installations linked back to the vulnerable habitat by laser based communication. I doubt a relativistic projectile would be capable of altering course, so not much movement would be required. I would imagine that the evasion would have to be automatic though, rather than let humans make the decisions (I doubt humans would have time to do so.)
That's two ways I can come up with in sixty seconds. I am sure there are more.
It's a big ass sky. Direct observation is impossible.
As for movement, the feasibility depends on the size of the habitat.
Going through the Second Season before school starts over here in Turkey. Pegasus was one of the finest hours of television I've ever seen. Really, really well done. Oh and, I :wub: Michelle Forbes.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 19, 2010, 05:33:21 AM
Going through the Second Season before school starts over here in Turkey. Pegasus was one of the finest hours of television I've ever seen. Really, really well done. Oh and, I :wub: Michelle Forbes.
That little triology of episodes starting with the arrival of the Pegasus is the best three-episode run in SF (or any other) TV history, IMO; better even than the B5 one that won the Hugo Award.
Quote from: grumbler on February 19, 2010, 07:40:55 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 19, 2010, 05:33:21 AM
Going through the Second Season before school starts over here in Turkey. Pegasus was one of the finest hours of television I've ever seen. Really, really well done. Oh and, I :wub: Michelle Forbes.
That little triology of episodes starting with the arrival of the Pegasus is the best three-episode run in SF (or any other) TV history, IMO; better even than the B5 one that won the Hugo Award.
Lloyd Bridges was pretty cool, but I don't know if I'd go that far.
Quote from: Neil on February 19, 2010, 07:42:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 19, 2010, 07:40:55 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 19, 2010, 05:33:21 AM
Going through the Second Season before school starts over here in Turkey. Pegasus was one of the finest hours of television I've ever seen. Really, really well done. Oh and, I :wub: Michelle Forbes.
That little triology of episodes starting with the arrival of the Pegasus is the best three-episode run in SF (or any other) TV history, IMO; better even than the B5 one that won the Hugo Award.
Lloyd Bridges was pretty cool, but I don't know if I'd go that far.
:D
Regardless, what nBSG did to the character of Cain was a crime.
It is interesting though that the best episodes of both the new and the old series revolved around the Pegasus.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 07:48:11 AM
:D
Regardless, what nBSG did to the character of Cain was a crime.
Lesbians are great. :)
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 07:48:11 AM
Regardless, what nBSG did to the character of Cain was a crime.
The crime being taking a cardboard character and fleshing it out you mean? :P
*cue for Neil's usual meaningless cant about Starbuck*
G.
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2010, 11:23:26 AM
Lesbians are great. :)
Wanting to fuck Tricia Helfer is the sign of having a pulse, rather than being a lesbian. And the idea of the two going at it in hot lesbian-woman-on-sexbot action makes my lobido want to produce a Big Bang of its own.
The music on this series is near-perfect. The #6 theme is awesome.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 19, 2010, 11:41:48 AM
Wanting to fuck Tricia Helfer is the sign of having a pulse, rather than being a lesbian. And the idea of the two going at it in hot lesbian-woman-on-sexbot action makes my lobido want to produce a Big Bang of its own.
I don't really need to hear about how you and Kanye would do anything for a blonde dyke, thx.
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2010, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 19, 2010, 11:41:48 AM
Wanting to fuck Tricia Helfer is the sign of having a pulse, rather than being a lesbian. And the idea of the two going at it in hot lesbian-woman-on-sexbot action makes my lobido want to produce a Big Bang of its own.
I don't really need to hear about how you and Kanye would do anything for a blonde dyke, thx.
:lmfao:
Genius.
Quote from: grumbler on February 19, 2010, 07:40:55 AM
That little triology of episodes starting with the arrival of the Pegasus is the best three-episode run in SF (or any other) TV history, IMO; better even than the B5 one that won the Hugo Award.
Better than Severed Dreams? I don't know...
Visually speaking, yes it's better, no arguments there.
There's more people involved on all sides, that goes with the budget.
The writing was good, but I don't know if I'd put it as better than JMS' own writing. At least equal.
The music... I just don't remember...
Oh, well, I'll reserve my final judgement for when I finally receive my Blu Ray of the series.
But of course I won't be able to watch B5 on HD since it's horrible :(
Quote from: Grallon on February 19, 2010, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 07:48:11 AM
Regardless, what nBSG did to the character of Cain was a crime.
The crime being taking a cardboard character and fleshing it out you mean? :P
*cue for Neil's usual meaningless cant about Starbuck*
G.
Nope, for turning an old soldier dreaming of past glories into a psychopathic, murderous bitch.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: Grallon on February 19, 2010, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 07:48:11 AM
Regardless, what nBSG did to the character of Cain was a crime.
The crime being taking a cardboard character and fleshing it out you mean? :P
*cue for Neil's usual meaningless cant about Starbuck*
G.
Nope, for turning an old soldier dreaming of past glories into a psychopathic, murderous bitch.
Post-traumatic stress disorder.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 01:38:59 PM
Nope, for turning an old soldier dreaming of past glories into a psychopathic, murderous bitch.
This was BSG - not 'Charge of the Light Brigade'.
Hmmm she'd make a perfect Signy Mallory though :wub:
G.
Quote from: viper37 on February 19, 2010, 02:22:11 PM
Post-traumatic stress disorder.
Shooting your XO? Yes, that would explain that, perhaps.
Wouldn't explain abandoning a bunch of civvies though.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 19, 2010, 05:42:48 PM
Shooting your XO? Yes, that would explain that, perhaps.
Wouldn't explain abandoning a bunch of civvies though.
Well, not being a psy I don't know much about this... but, as a result of a tragic event, some 'normal' people can become true psychos.
We can argue that:
a- Being under attack by the Cylons, receiving lots of damages and barely escaping alive while most of the known civilization was destroyed
and
b- the woman you love most is in fact a Cylon infiltrator, the ones who previously tried to kill you
are tragic events sufficient to make someone 'flip'.
Of she was a psycho all along, and she managed to hide it well throughout her career, wich is not impossible.
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
Well, not being a psy I don't know much about this... but, as a result of a tragic event, some 'normal' people can become true psychos.
We can argue that:
a- Being under attack by the Cylons, receiving lots of damages and barely escaping alive while most of the known civilization was destroyed
and
b- the woman you love most is in fact a Cylon infiltrator, the ones who previously tried to kill you
are tragic events sufficient to make someone 'flip'.
Of she was a psycho all along, and she managed to hide it well throughout her career, wich is not impossible.
Perhaps I should have used the word "forgive" instead of "explain".
And it doesn't change the fact that they made Cain more of a monster than a military commander, which I do not consider to be a good decision by the creators of nBSG.
And I'm not a knee-jerk, "old is better" guy. Before it went off the rails after New Caprica, I had a lot of time for the new Starbuck, and I loved what they'd done with the Boomer character. :wub:
Yeah. I'm now watching after New Caprica, and there's a definite decline in quality. Rather sad. Hoping it improves before the (in)famous series finale?
I love the Cylons, but they seem to have taken them in some...less interesting directions I think. I don't know, they were better as something of a mystery.
Lucy Lawless' # isn't nearly as interesting as any of the others; I'm partly blaming it on that. Screen time that she has would be better spent with Cavil or Caprica, or some of the lesser-seen models.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 20, 2010, 06:26:30 PM
I don't know, they were better as something of a mystery.
But that's generally the case with unknown evil that is revealed. See the Shadows and the Borg.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2010, 07:09:19 PMBut that's generally the case with unknown evil that is revealed. See the Shadows and the Borg.
:yes:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.galciv2.com%2Fmvlib%2Fss%2FFullview_Xenomorph.PNG&hash=332b6ac8d5692b4328b33b0e01f452f190f35cf3)
:(
Quote from: Queequeg on February 20, 2010, 06:26:30 PM
Yeah. I'm now watching after New Caprica, and there's a definite decline in quality. Rather sad. Hoping it improves before the (in)famous series finale?
I love the Cylons, but they seem to have taken them in some...less interesting directions I think. I don't know, they were better as something of a mystery.
It always looked to me like the producers simeply didn't know what to do after the whole New Caprica fiasco. There are some good eps ahead of you, but the story line never recovers.
The Cylons always suffered from the fact that the producers took the easy road every time they had to decide how to handle Cylons, and so ended up with contradictions that made the Cylons ultimately uninteresting.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2010, 07:09:19 PM
But that's generally the case with unknown evil that is revealed. See the Shadows and the Borg.
I thought the shadows were actually interesting, for a few reasons. first, their philosophy wasn't clearcut evil; it was more like someone weeding a garden to ensure that the best plants can flourish. Secondly, they were supposed to be a bit childish.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2010, 07:09:19 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 20, 2010, 06:26:30 PM
I don't know, they were better as something of a mystery.
But that's generally the case with unknown evil that is revealed. See the Shadows and the Borg.
The Borg were never an "unknown evil" - everything about them was explained in their very first episode.
What made them less interesting is the number of times they were easily defeated by Star Fleet. But even then First Contact managed to make them scary again.
Taking A Break From All Your Worries is pretty great; maybe Season One great, not Pegasus though. Baltar is probably the most interesting Human character.
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2010, 04:14:42 PM
The Borg were never an "unknown evil" - everything about them was explained in their very first episode.
Maybe not unknown, but seldomly seen.
QuoteWhat made them less interesting is the number of times they were easily defeated by Star Fleet. But even then First Contact managed to make them scary again.
Once? Twice if you count Lore's Borg, at least before First Contact fucked them up, and then Voyager ended them as a credible threat.
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2010, 04:14:42 PM
The Borg were never an "unknown evil" - everything about them was explained in their very first episode.
I thought the Borg Queen came later.
Quote from: Faeelin on February 21, 2010, 02:37:23 PM
I thought the shadows were actually interesting, for a few reasons. first, their philosophy wasn't clearcut evil; it was more like someone weeding a garden to ensure that the best plants can flourish. Secondly, they were supposed to be a bit childish.
I thought they were quite dull once it was revealed that them and the Vorlons were virtually interchangeable.
Quote from: garbon on February 21, 2010, 08:04:26 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on February 21, 2010, 02:37:23 PM
I thought the shadows were actually interesting, for a few reasons. first, their philosophy wasn't clearcut evil; it was more like someone weeding a garden to ensure that the best plants can flourish. Secondly, they were supposed to be a bit childish.
I thought they were quite dull once it was revealed that them and the Vorlons were virtually interchangeable.
Rather than making the Shadows lame, I felt that made the Vorlons more interesting.
Quote from: Neil on February 21, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 21, 2010, 08:04:26 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on February 21, 2010, 02:37:23 PM
I thought the shadows were actually interesting, for a few reasons. first, their philosophy wasn't clearcut evil; it was more like someone weeding a garden to ensure that the best plants can flourish. Secondly, they were supposed to be a bit childish.
I thought they were quite dull once it was revealed that them and the Vorlons were virtually interchangeable.
Rather than making the Shadows lame, I felt that made the Vorlons more interesting.
I agree with this. The Vorlons and Shadows were both a lot more interesting once the black-and-white appearances faded to gray.
Morally ambiguous: :yawn:
Quote from: Agelastus on February 20, 2010, 05:24:38 PM
And I'm not a knee-jerk, "old is better" guy. Before it went off the rails after New Caprica, I had a lot of time for the new Starbuck, and I loved what they'd done with the Boomer character. :wub:
Yeah, that was a total waste for such a good show.
Quote from: Neil on February 21, 2010, 08:01:27 PM
Once? Twice if you count Lore's Borg, at least before First Contact fucked them up, and then Voyager ended them as a credible threat.
1st encounter. Enterprise is saved by Q.
2nd encounter, Wolf 359.
3rd encounter, U.
4th encounter, Lore.
5th encouter, First Contact and the Queen.
there was a natural evolution, where the Borg went from the ultimate evil that can't be destroyed, to the one where they are easily dealt with.
Seems to be immediate improvement now that the 3rd Season is over. Gaius Baltar as Sexy-Ad-Hoc-Jesus is great, and there are some interesting dynamics among the semi-Final Five. And that Irish character is gone-hurray!
Received my Blu Ray discs yesterday.
There's real difference between the visuals of Season 2 on Blu Ray and Season 1 on HD-DVD. I was told the image would be less grainy, despite it being the intent of the producers, but that's not really true.
Anyway, it's really nice to see the entire show on HD. And of course, this being season 2, the show is still very good.
I'm on the 4th episode so far, and I quite like it.
On the downside... every time you restart the show, you have to see Ron D. Moore's speech about how he's proud of his technoligical marvel. I think once would have been enough.
Currently at episode 4 of Season 4. Much improved from the incredibly shitty post-New Caprica last season, still not totally up to Season 2 levels.
That said, the writing quality has declined substantially. I'm reasonably sure I could have improved it, very depressing. :(
Quote from: viper37 on February 24, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
Received my Blu Ray discs yesterday.
There's real difference between the visuals of Season 2 on Blu Ray and Season 1 on HD-DVD. I was told the image would be less grainy, despite it being the intent of the producers, but that's not really true.
Anyway, it's really nice to see the entire show on HD. And of course, this being season 2, the show is still very good.
First season was shot on film, unlike the following ones (HD video then treated to get a grittier picture).
The real difference for me was the DTS HD Master audio track which easily beats the True Hd even on a stereo only set.
Quote from: viper37 on February 22, 2010, 10:41:55 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 21, 2010, 08:01:27 PM
Once? Twice if you count Lore's Borg, at least before First Contact fucked them up, and then Voyager ended them as a credible threat.
1st encounter. Enterprise is saved by Q.
2nd encounter, Wolf 359.
3rd encounter, U.
4th encounter, Lore.
5th encouter, First Contact and the Queen.
there was a natural evolution, where the Borg went from the ultimate evil that can't be destroyed, to the one where they are easily dealt with.
U doesn't count, as there was a single Borg drone in the episode. Lore's Borg weren't real Borg. And you're skipping the most critical part of the pussification of the Borg: Star Trek Voyager.
Quote from: Neil on February 25, 2010, 09:36:57 AM
U doesn't count, as there was a single Borg drone in the episode. Lore's Borg weren't real Borg. And you're skipping the most critical part of the pussification of the Borg: Star Trek Voyager.
What is this 'Voyager' you speak of? I do not know of anything called 'Voyager'. 'Voyager' does not exist in my own universe.
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 25, 2010, 09:36:57 AM
U doesn't count, as there was a single Borg drone in the episode. Lore's Borg weren't real Borg. And you're skipping the most critical part of the pussification of the Borg: Star Trek Voyager.
What is this 'Voyager' you speak of? I do not know of anything called 'Voyager'. 'Voyager' does not exist in my own universe.
That's the way I am about that Q thing you mentioned. A Q is a plot device for writers too hackish to bother creating something interesting, and we know that no such thing could (or need) exist in the true ST universe.
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 10:09:58 AM
That's the way I am about that Q thing you mentioned. A Q is a plot device for writers too hackish to bother creating something interesting, and we know that no such thing could (or need) exist in the true ST universe.
Given that Q appears in the first episode of TNG, wich was written by Gene Roddenburry, I think you are wrong :)
Also, there has been similar alien entities with god like powers in the past ST universe.
Now, you tell me Q was over used in the entire series, I'll agree with you. I remember at least once in TNG and once in DS9 were Q didn't need to be there at all.
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 12:31:27 PM
Given that Q appears in the first episode of TNG, wich was written by Gene Roddenburry, I think you are wrong :)
Roddenberry is a hack
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 25, 2010, 12:40:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 12:31:27 PM
Given that Q appears in the first episode of TNG, wich was written by Gene Roddenburry, I think you are wrong :)
Roddenberry is a hack
Roddenberry: Ron Moore of his generation?
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 12:31:27 PM
Given that Q appears in the first episode of TNG, wich was written by Gene Roddenburry, I think you are wrong :)
I think your facts are far likelier to make people support my position than the reverse. As a writer, Roddenberry was a mediocre producer.
QuoteAlso, there has been similar alien entities with god like powers in the past ST universe.
None written so badly. Previous godlike beings were used by decent writers to make specific points, not to dodge them. Hell, TNG had one of the best shows about the implications of omnipotence ever.
QuoteNow, you tell me Q was over used in the entire series, I'll agree with you. I remember at least once in TNG and once in DS9 were Q didn't need to be there at all.
We disagree on the number of times he shouldn't have been used, that's all. :hug:
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 02:05:47 PM
I think your facts are far likelier to make people support my position than the reverse. As a writer, Roddenberry was a mediocre producer.
I'm not saying Roddenburry was a genius like Lucas... ahem, wrong point, delete that :D
I'm only saying that, as the man who wrote the Star Trek universe, it feels kinda silly for us to say this or that doesn't belong in that universe. It's his universe, so he gotta know about what belongs or not in his own vision.
Quote
We disagree on the number of times he shouldn't have been used, that's all. :hug:
That's it :) :D
Romo Lampkin is infuriatingly awful. :yucky:
Quote from: Queequeg on February 25, 2010, 03:22:48 PM
Romo Lampkin is infuriatingly awful. :yucky:
What the hell are you talking about!? Romo is awsome.
Oh wait - you're one of those who think HBO's 'Rome' is a classic. *shakes head*
G.
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 02:38:34 PM
I'm only saying that, as the man who wrote the Star Trek universe, it feels kinda silly for us to say this or that doesn't belong in that universe. It's his universe, so he gotta know about what belongs or not in his own vision.
Oh, I was just playing alojng with your "there is no Voyager" bit. In reality, alas, there was both Q and Voyager (though I'd watch a random Voyager episode before the random Q episode).
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 05:43:13 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 02:38:34 PM
I'm only saying that, as the man who wrote the Star Trek universe, it feels kinda silly for us to say this or that doesn't belong in that universe. It's his universe, so he gotta know about what belongs or not in his own vision.
Oh, I was just playing alojng with your "there is no Voyager" bit. In reality, alas, there was both Q and Voyager (though I'd watch a random Voyager episode before the random Q episode).
What about the Voyager episodes with Q?
Quote from: Grallon on February 25, 2010, 05:09:37 PM
What the hell are you talking about!? Romo is awsome.
Oh wait - you're one of those who think HBO's 'Rome' is a classic. *shakes head*
G.
If you think I care
at all about your opinion on cultural matters, you are sadly mistaken. You make Martinus look like the witty, urbane sophisticate he thinks he is.
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 05:43:13 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 25, 2010, 02:38:34 PM
I'm only saying that, as the man who wrote the Star Trek universe, it feels kinda silly for us to say this or that doesn't belong in that universe. It's his universe, so he gotta know about what belongs or not in his own vision.
Oh, I was just playing alojng with your "there is no Voyager" bit. In reality, alas, there was both Q and Voyager (though I'd watch a random Voyager episode before the random Q episode).
I'm not so sure. There were at least two good Q episodes: The one with the Borg and the series finale. Even if there were two good Voyager episodes, your odds of watching one in the sea of filth is much smaller.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 25, 2010, 05:53:06 PM
If you think I care at all about your opinion on cultural matters, you are sadly mistaken. You make Martinus look like the witty, urbane sophisticate he thinks he is.
Spellus has rejoined Raz in pill induced moral grand standing. :P
G.
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 02:05:47 PM
Hell, TNG had one of the best shows about the implications of omnipotence ever.
Which episode are you referring to?
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 05:43:13 PM
Oh, I was just playing alojng with your "there is no Voyager" bit. In reality, alas, there was both Q and Voyager (though I'd watch a random Voyager episode before the random Q episode).
well, in fact, there were good episodes of Voyage. The problem is that the series as a whole is no good.
Quote from: Cerr on February 25, 2010, 06:51:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 02:05:47 PM
Hell, TNG had one of the best shows about the implications of omnipotence ever.
Which episode are you referring to?
It is one in which they find only two survivors (man and woman) on a tiny surviving splinter of land on a planet that has been ravaged by an alien bombardment from space, and weird shit happens when they try to investigate where the aliens came from.
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 07:48:24 PM
Quote from: Cerr on February 25, 2010, 06:51:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 02:05:47 PM
Hell, TNG had one of the best shows about the implications of omnipotence ever.
Which episode are you referring to?
It is one in which they find only two survivors (man and woman) on a tiny surviving splinter of land on a planet that has been ravaged by an alien bombardment from space, and weird shit happens when they try to investigate where the aliens came from.
Yeah, that one was good.
The Adama-Roslin relationship is really, really great. One of the best things about the show.
Just watched The Plan. It was weird watching the show without Roslin. Liked the gratuitous penis shot though.
I have to say; I think the show has really come back, if not to Season 2 levels, then to season 1 levels. The mutiny and integration of Rebel Cylon and Human forces is really interesting.
Quote from: Queequeg on March 01, 2010, 10:40:45 AM
I have to say; I think the show has really come back, if not to Season 2 levels, then to season 1 levels. The mutiny and integration of Rebel Cylon and Human forces is really interesting.
You need your head examined.
:P
I revise my statement about Admiral Caine.
She really is a psycho.
Quote from: viper37 on March 13, 2010, 01:43:04 AM
I revise my statement about Admiral Caine.
She really is a psycho.
I agree, of course, but what caused you to revise your opinion?
Quote from: Agelastus on March 13, 2010, 07:15:25 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 13, 2010, 01:43:04 AM
I revise my statement about Admiral Caine.
She really is a psycho.
I agree, of course, but what caused you to revise your opinion?
I got the Blu-Ray of the series, and I'm rewatching it. I'm currently watching Razor. It's clear to me now that she was a psychopath before the Colonies were bombed, she was just "in control" so to speak, and the near anihilation of the human race pushed her over the edge. It ain't simply post-traumatic stress disorder.
Some events were mixed up in my head :) I thought she killed her XO after discovering the Cylon. Clearly, she didn't even need that.
What? Who said that the 12 colonies were in the same system?
That's impossible.
I always assumed they were in 12 diferent systems, next to each other.
Quote from: Queequeg on February 04, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
It will be long-range missiles, "smart" missiles, with nuclear warheads, launched from a collection of vessels that will likely resemble current generation submarines, as oppoused to surface vessels or aircraft. Point defense systems will likely be lasers instead of bullets, even though bullets are cheaper, because of speed to target and because bullets would continue to fly indefinitively beyond their targetting range due to inertia, which could be a problem in large formations of spaceships.
I think fighters and carriers will be limited to orbital operations and planetary assaults. There is no point whatsoever in using fighters in deep space. Because of inertia, they would not have a speed or manouverability advantage over larger spacecraft, but would be far more limited in firepower and defenses.
But then, back in the 19th century, future aircraft was thought of as resembling naval vessels, with an open deck on top. We are probably making the same mistake today with spacecraft. The reality of space will dictate their shapes and sizes, and they will likely not ressemble anything we know today.
Quote from: Siege on March 15, 2010, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on February 04, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
What would an actual space battle look like? I always imagined it would have way more in common with Jutland than Midway, all extremely long-range ordinance and guessing where the enemy is/will be.
It will be long-range missiles, "smart" missiles, with nuclear warheads, launched from a collection of vessels that will likely resemble current generation submarines, as oppoused to surface vessels or aircraft. Point defense systems will likely be lasers instead of bullets, even though bullets are cheaper, because of speed to target and because bullets would continue to fly indefinitively beyond their targetting range due to inertia, which could be a problem in large formations of spaceships.
I think fighters and carriers will be limited to orbital operations and planetary assaults. There is no point whatsoever in using fighters in deep space. Because of inertia, they would not have a speed or manouverability advantage over larger spacecraft, but would be far more limited in firepower and defenses.
But then, back in the 19th century, future aircraft was thought of as resembling naval vessels, with an open deck on top. We are probably making the same mistake today with spacecraft. The reality of space will dictate their shapes and sizes, and they will likely not ressemble anything we know today.
Or giant aircraft carriers that can launch Veritech fighters.
Quote from: Siege on March 15, 2010, 09:52:01 AM
What? Who said that the 12 colonies were in the same system?
the producers said so. It was the same in the original show.
It's not impossible, just highly unlikely.
Quote from: Siege on March 15, 2010, 09:52:01 AM
What? Who said that the 12 colonies were in the same system?
That's impossible.
I always assumed they were in 12 diferent systems, next to each other.
Triple star system with twelve inhabitable planets (judging from on-screen info of the original series - Tigh gesturing at a starmap showing the location of three groups of Cylon basestars launching at all "outer planets".) This particular concept seems to have been taken on board by the revival team after the outrage on the Battlestar Galactica boards over their original concept of the twelve Colonies all sharing one world.
The outrage over the new show was funny; I posted a "live with it" message on a board that I'd ignored for a few years and ended up getting the fourth degree from people who thought I was a sock puppet of a known agent provocateur.
As for the odds of such a system? I'd say they are low, but not impossible. I'd guess some of the worlds would have to be double planets, and the stars would have to be orbiting quite a way from each other (no doubt explaining the prevalence of civilian FTL - some ships with it, some ships without. Presumably cost over speed considerations since all the Colonies are reachable by STL ships in a not-to-unreasonable amount of time.) There's nothing in canon that contradicts the possibility that some of the worlds were terraformed, having not originally been habitable, if you cannot believe that a system would have twelve natural inhabitable worlds.
Double Binary System
This map is awesome, however the original
population #s were retarded. Now they were
never actually consistent in the show either
throwing around 20 billion and 50 billion on
different occasions (would it kill the writers to at
least keep the values close?). So the original total
on this map of 28.55 billion was fine, but it
reduced Libran and Aquaria to virtually
uninhabited planets with tiny outposts of 2.1
million and 25,000 people respectively.
The original map can be found here.
http://io9.com/#!5742034/a-detailed-map-of-
battlestar-galacticas-twelve-colonies (http://io9.com/#!5742034/a-detailed-map-of-%3Cbr/%3Ebattlestar-galacticas-twelve-colonies)
Here's mine.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg857.imageshack.us%2Fimg857%2F1859%2F12coloniesofkobolhigh.png&hash=2eeeae9b5036af5194ceb2de2552a2802bf93b80)
By timmay11 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/timmay11) at 2011-03-16
The astronomical arrangement of the stars is rather unlikely. Double binaries are pretty rare due to their instability.
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2011, 09:23:53 PM
The astronomical arrangement of the stars is rather unlikely. Double binaries are pretty rare due to their instability.
They are rare, but they do occur.
Epsilon Lyrae for example.
Still wish there was a huge and readable version of that map.
Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
Still wish there was a huge and readable version of that map.
:huh: Text is a bit small, but I can read it.
It's 2000x1350, how much bigger do you want it?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 09:37:19 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2011, 09:23:53 PM
The astronomical arrangement of the stars is rather unlikely. Double binaries are pretty rare due to their instability.
They are rare, but they do occur.
Epsilon Lyrae for example.
Those are Class A stars. The stars in your graphic have to stay together long enough to evolve complex life, which is a very long time indeed.
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2011, 10:26:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 09:37:19 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2011, 09:23:53 PM
The astronomical arrangement of the stars is rather unlikely. Double binaries are pretty rare due to their instability.
They are rare, but they do occur.
Epsilon Lyrae for example.
Those are Class A stars. The stars in your graphic have to stay together long enough to evolve complex life, which is a very long time indeed.
The Milky Way has 300 billion stars, and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies. When the numbers are so big, improbable things occur.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 10:31:51 PM
The Milky Way has 300 billion stars, and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies. When the numbers are so big, improbable things occur.
Too many improbable things happening there.
Finished the series a couple of months ago. Ending was kinda eh. Few things were left unresolved that I didn't like.
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2011, 10:49:39 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 10:31:51 PM
The Milky Way has 300 billion stars, and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies. When the numbers are so big, improbable things occur.
Too many improbable things happening there.
Yet they're all possible. If you want to be pedantic why not bitch about the impossible stuff in the show like the FTL.
QuoteThose are Class A stars. The stars in your graphic have to stay together long enough to evolve complex life, which is a very long time indeed.
Who says they evolved complex life?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 10:16:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
Still wish there was a huge and readable version of that map.
:huh: Text is a bit small, but I can read it.
It's 2000x1350, how much bigger do you want it?
So the text is readable, I can't make it out at all. Zoom right in and it goes fuzzy.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2011, 10:49:39 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 10:31:51 PM
The Milky Way has 300 billion stars, and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies. When the numbers are so big, improbable things occur.
Too many improbable things happening there.
Yet they're all possible. If you want to be pedantic why not bitch about the impossible stuff in the show like the FTL.
Perhaps individually, but all together?
Besides, how would I know there's FTL in the show?
Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2011, 11:00:52 PM
QuoteThose are Class A stars. The stars in your graphic have to stay together long enough to evolve complex life, which is a very long time indeed.
Who says they evolved complex life?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 10:16:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 11, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
Still wish there was a huge and readable version of that map.
:huh: Text is a bit small, but I can read it.
It's 2000x1350, how much bigger do you want it?
So the text is readable, I can't make it out at all. Zoom right in and it goes fuzzy.
Zoom in with view a couple of times and it should be big enough and clear enough to be read. Not exactly easily, but you shouldn't be struggling. Maybe you need glasses.
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
I'd like to jam a cattle prod into anybody making such a crossover.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 11, 2011, 11:28:25 PM
Zoom in with view a couple of times and it should be big enough and clear enough to be read. Not exactly easily, but you shouldn't be struggling. Maybe you need glasses.
Its not my eyes that see it fuzzy, its the pixelation.
I can decipher it zoomed right in, but its not comfortable reading, things are messed up that far in.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
Wags needs to be flogged for his suggestions in this thread.
I'll get the cattle prod.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Are you implying that there are crossover alt(fan)-fictions that do make sense?
Quote from: sbr on March 12, 2011, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Are you implying that there are crossover alt(fan)-fictions that do make sense?
Planetary / Batman wasn't bad...
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Why the fuck not? Galactica needs fuel badly, but runs afowl of Cobra. Then the Cylons show up and there is a teamup.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 12, 2011, 01:56:41 PM
I'd like to jam a cattle prod into anybody making such a crossover.
Standard crossover punishment, or are you especially angered at that one in particular? :hmm:
:(
Quote from: katmai on March 12, 2011, 04:36:56 PM
Wags needs to be flogged for his suggestions in this thread.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:56:55 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 12, 2011, 01:56:41 PM
I'd like to jam a cattle prod into anybody making such a crossover.
Standard crossover punishment, or are you especially angered at that one in particular? :hmm:
I'd have you torn apart wild dogs on general principles. Or be the Bear in
Shake that Bear II: Electric Bugaloo.
Quote from: sbr on March 12, 2011, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Are you implying that there are crossover alt(fan)-fictions that do make sense?
A Star Wars and Harry Potter one might.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 13, 2011, 11:34:25 AM
Quote from: sbr on March 12, 2011, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Are you implying that there are crossover alt(fan)-fictions that do make sense?
A Star Wars and Harry Potter one might.
:bleeding:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 13, 2011, 10:12:11 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 13, 2011, 11:34:25 AM
Quote from: sbr on March 12, 2011, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Are you implying that there are crossover alt(fan)-fictions that do make sense?
A Star Wars and Harry Potter one might.
:bleeding:
Fucksakes. Fine. Animorphs and Animaniacs.
Pretty Epic fan video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0GI2GHgwBI
Quote from: ulmont on March 12, 2011, 09:02:17 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 12, 2011, 08:57:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 12, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 12, 2011, 07:33:28 AM
Tim can you give us a map of the Colonies intervening in World War II and clashign with Rommel?
The favored crossover on the net seems to be Stargate.
In that case write up a crossover with GI Joe.
That doesn't even make sense.
Are you implying that there are crossover alt(fan)-fictions that do make sense?
Planetary / Batman wasn't bad...
That had metafictional aspects. Metafictional crossovers tend to do reasonably well, e.g. Dave Sim's Spawn story where every superhero/villain ever was trapped in Erebus.
*Bump*
I know I'm going to lose nerd cred when I say I never watched the reboot BSG (did watch the 70s original).
Found the series on Amazon Prime. Watching the original mini-series, finding it very good. Of course I know there was a lot of negativity towards BSG towards the end, and of course the 70s original started out strong and rapidly petered out also.
Is this show worth investing some time in?
Quote from: Barrister on March 17, 2020, 11:55:07 PM
*Bump*
I know I'm going to lose nerd cred when I say I never watched the reboot BSG (did watch the 70s original).
Err, no, liking old tv shows and either panning or ignoring popular reboots GIVES nerd cred.
That reminds me, I'm still about half way into season 2 and haven't continued yet. :D
I took several attempts at getting into the show, and it only "clicked" a few years ago.
I'd say the first 3 seasons are pretty good, even great in parts. Then it became Lost avant-la-lettre.
And the boardgame is fucking awesome.
Quote from: celedhring on March 18, 2020, 02:43:36 AM
I'd say the first 3 seasons are pretty good, even great in parts. Then it became Lost avant-la-lettre.
And the boardgame is fucking awesome.
Agreed on all of this
Quote from: celedhring on March 18, 2020, 02:43:36 AM
I'd say the first 3 seasons are pretty good, even great in parts. Then it became Lost avant-la-lettre.
And the boardgame is fucking awesome.
The strategy game is quite good, too. At least it was, before all the DLC hit which I haven't tried yet.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/544610/Battlestar_Galactica_Deadlock/
Quote from: Barrister on March 17, 2020, 11:55:07 PM
*Bump*
I know I'm going to lose nerd cred when I say I never watched the reboot BSG (did watch the 70s original).
Found the series on Amazon Prime. Watching the original mini-series, finding it very good. Of course I know there was a lot of negativity towards BSG towards the end, and of course the 70s original started out strong and rapidly petered out also.
Is this show worth investing some time in?
Yes.
Will be curious to hear how the jumps between series feel when you're watching them one after the other
Quote from: Barrister on March 17, 2020, 11:55:07 PM
*Bump*
I know I'm going to lose nerd cred when I say I never watched the reboot BSG (did watch the 70s original).
Found the series on Amazon Prime. Watching the original mini-series, finding it very good. Of course I know there was a lot of negativity towards BSG towards the end, and of course the 70s original started out strong and rapidly petered out also.
Is this show worth investing some time in?
Yes, but as said by the others it starts to decline by season three, and the ending is a total lazy cop-out. Still enjoyable though.
Quote from: Barrister on March 17, 2020, 11:55:07 PM
Is this show worth investing some time in?
Yes, despite a slowdown in the later half of season 3. Season 4 wasn't half bad, but the ending was a bit disapointing, I guess.