Battlestar Galactica

[Neil]

I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.

The problem they created for themselves (again) is that they tried to create an ending where Galactica came to earth 150,000 years in our past.  How to do that without leaving any archeological footprint - get everyone to revert to hunter gatherers.  But even then they fail because Baltar went on and on about how he knows about farming and the other characters talked about finding good areas to farm - somthing that didnt happen for another 140,000 years give or take.

On the other hand, most of them probably didn't have much knowledge of farming, even if they had the inclination, and Baltar was probably eaten by a cave lion.  If a small, scattered population took up subsistance farming at a very low level, with very few tools, and were wiped out to the last child within a decade, would there really be much in the way of archeological evidence?

[Berkut]

Nah, turns out that the Colony went into the black hole when it was hit by the nukes, so they are all dead. Supposedly. Apparently all the basestars were there. Right.

That was clear in the original version of the show, but they edited it out because they needed the time to show profound character development, like Starbuck begging Lee to fuck her after Lees brother, her fiancee, passed out drunk.

Can't miss important "character development" like that! Things like explaining the fucking story will just have to go!

[Berkut]

I watched the finale. I also found it quite odd how they split up so much. They're an advanced society, and aside from their own knowledge, they should have been able to bring things from the ships to help them live and thrive. Then why they sent the ships into the Sun is beyond me. Those are what they'd need, and they could have used them as living places parked on the planet, I'd think.

The problem they created for themselves (again) is that they tried to create an ending where Galactica came to earth 150,000 years in our past.  How to do that without leaving any archeological footprint - get everyone to revert to hunter gatherers.  But even then they fail because Baltar went on and on about how he knows about farming and the other characters talked about finding good areas to farm - somthing that didnt happen for another 140,000 years give or take.

On the other hand, most of them probably didn't have much knowledge of farming, even if they had the inclination, and Baltar was probably eaten by a cave lion.  If a small, scattered population took up subsistance farming at a very low level, with very few tools, and were wiped out to the last child within a decade, would there really be much in the way of archeological evidence?

Sure, there would be a lot - if they ever uncovered the site in question.

A lot of metal implements where they should not be, for example.

I immediately wondered why hera, for example, wherever they found her, was not found with some bit iof plastic or metal on her a remnant button, *something* that would have survived her life.

Of course, it would not be unlikely that any sites were simply never found, buried under 150,000 years of dirt.

Of course it is all bullshit.

[Fate]

I think it's ridiculous if they really only had the clothes on their backs kind of thing. I'm sure that several years of living in cramped conditions in space would be weird. But enough to make you even consider going native? No. Also can't see Baltar (or anyone else) not using his scientific acumen, or farming knowledge to do something likely on a big scale that no one on the planet would be doing for 10's of thousands of years to come. It would be a very different world I thnk.

Society could certainly regress within the 150,000 year period due to disease, famine, or domination/assimilation by the more numerous natives. The colonials didn't land with computers or heavy machinery, so their advanced scientific knowledge is fairly useless. They knew about tylium reactors, not coal/oil and steam/combustion engines.

[Neil]

Sure, there would be a lot - if they ever uncovered the site in question.

A lot of metal implements where they should not be, for example.

I suppose you're right.  Buttons, buckles, those sorts of things.  Or did they bring actual tools with them?

I immediately wondered why hera, for example, wherever they found her, was not found with some bit iof plastic or metal on her a remnant button, *something* that would have survived her life.

Nudism might have become big after the colonists embraced the luddite way.

[grumbler]

But don't think about the plot too hard! It is all about the characters after all!

Indeed.  And it is because they do less with their characters that this show is so much inferior to Babylon 5, even though it had more than triple the budget in real dollars and so could afford real actors and real CGI.

[Martinus]

Oh do shut up Neil !


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I am in mourning.  I can't stop reading everything I can find about it.  Forum discussions, reviews, essays...  Who would have thought a TV show would have more impact on me than real people !?  But then people, up close, are always revealed for the scums they are.  Whereas here, by proxy, they can be loved or admired... *sigh*


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Here's another review, designed for you Vinraith 


http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/03/20/bsg-watch-a-long-time-ago-in-a-galaxy-far-far-away/




G.

Apparently there is going to be a spin-off series, and it will have gay sex. According to the FoF people, who are fans, at least.

[Fate]

There will be no gay sex on the Scy-fy channel. 

[DisturbedPervert]

But don't think about the plot too hard! It is all about the characters after all!

Indeed.  And it is because they do less with their characters that this show is so much inferior to Babylon 5, even though it had more than triple the budget in real dollars and so could afford real actors and real CGI.

Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season.  Is it really that good?  I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.

[Agelastus]

Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season.  Is it really that good?  I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.

Watch about half the episodes of season 1 (Grumbler can tell you the ones to skip - personally, I think "Believers" is the episode to avoid at all costs), all of seasons 2-4, and then about half the episodes of season 5 (skipping the idiot Byron plotline being the main goal.)

[Barrister]

Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season.  Is it really that good?  I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.

Watch about half the episodes of season 1 (Grumbler can tell you the ones to skip - personally, I think "Believers" is the episode to avoid at all costs), all of seasons 2-4, and then about half the episodes of season 5 (skipping the idiot Byron plotline being the main goal.)

This is correct.  Although I havenèt gotten to season 5 in my recent re-watching but I didnèt rememebr it being all that bad.  Season 1 by itself was pretty boring except as a really long set-up for the awesomeness of the next three years.

Plus instead of leaving any glaring plot holes, it nicely resolves many of the mysteries that you are first introduced to and a viewing the second time around shows how nicely they were all hinted at.  There were several plot lines left dangling (both in B5 and the short-lived sequel Crusade), but I think those were more intended as future stories to tell...

[grumbler]

Grumbler, I haven't watched Babylon 5, other than a few random episodes in the first season.  Is it really that good?  I don't want to put so much time in to another series and end up being disappointed as much as I was with BSG.

As the others have said, the first season was rocky, for two reasons:
(1) The show was the first to use exclusively CGI, and so the effects left a lot to be desired (but still sucked up enough money that they couldn't afford star-quality guest actors or complex sets), and
(2) Some of the writers still thought it was Star Trek and so wrote stories that didn't contribute to the arc.

In the second season, JMS took over writing completely.  Yep, he wrote every story from 216 to 522, with the exception of 508, which was the Neil Gaiman episode.

The difference this makes in a series is amazing, particularly because JMS knew from the start where he was going.  There probably is a bit more exposition than any other show-runner would have tolerated, but writing is a real strength of the show and JMS is a much better writer than all of the BSG writers combined.  Plus, he has a read respect for his audience and genre, and never throws in cheap resolutions, dei ex machinae, or cutsie stuff.  Best of all, he planned from the beginning to tell his story in 110 eps, and in the end did exactly that.  There is an accordion effect at the end of the fourth season because when that season started JMS was told that the fourth season would be the last, but the show recovers about ten eps into the fifth season.

You will be amazed at the end when you realize what you knew and when you knew it, only you didn't know you knew it.  Prophecy, for instance, is seen several times in the show, and always comes true.  At one point, he even uses time travel to a limited extent, but respects the canon completely (none of the "Tribulations" crap).  You will also weep unabashedly in the final episode.

What you will also see is how much the modern SF genre owes to B5.  BSG was strongest where they followed in the footsteps of that show (just as DS9 was strongest when they did the same) and weakest when they abandoned the tenets JMS set up in B5.

B5 is also extensively covered on the web, so there is lots of supplemental info you can dig into.

Start with In the Beginning and then go to season 2.  Catch up with season one later, at your leisure.  It has some good stuff along with the bad, but none of it is essential.

But do watch it.  It is certainly the best SF show ever done, and one of the best shows ever done, period.  There will never be another show like it, because no one will ever again be able to write so many scripts so authoritatively so quickly by themselves.

[garbon]

You will also weep unabashedly in the final episode.

It's true. :'(

[DisturbedPervert]

That's a pretty powerful recommendation grumbler.  I'll watch it.

[vinraith]

You will also weep unabashedly in the final episode.

I blame Franke's score, personally.

Oh and DP, I tend to think of myself as somewhat less of a B5 fanboy than grumbler, but there's nothing he posted there that I'd disagree with. Don't let the first season put you off.