Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[Martinus]

The newspapers are starting to attach labels to the guy.

"Nationalist", "Extreme Rightist" and "Moved in Extreme Rightist Circles".

Nothing about his suggests nationalist, if anything he was an Ideologue at war with different Ideology. From what I gather he doesn't see Norway as anything more than a place (based on his posts in the comments section at document.no). He was a Libertarian anti-Socialist and a Christian anti-Islamist. He was not a Nationalist, an Extreme Rightist or seems to have moved in Extreme Rightist Circles... unless you consider the Progress Party an Extreme Rightist circle. From what I can gather he left the Progress Party disgusted with their mainstream ways and conciliatory attitudes and went on a one man crusade against his imagined enemies.

I haven't seen a single "he seemed like a decent well behaved young man" that you usually get with other terrorists living among us. This guy seems to have opted out of society and radicalized himself rather than been a part of a group.

Didn't his Facebook profile say that there are two ideologies today, Internationalism and Nationalism, and he considers himself a Nationalist?

He was also apparently against race-mixing and religion-mixing. It's pretty right winger to me.

Also he played Alliance. QED.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/917102640?page=2#25

[Martinus]

Polish news is reporting there was a second gunner. 

[Slargos]

Polish news is reporting there was a second gunner. 

[Viking]

Didn't his Facebook profile say that there are two ideologies today, Internationalism and Nationalism, and he considers himself a Nationalist?

He was also apparently against race-mixing and religion-mixing. It's pretty right winger to me.

Also he played Alliance. QED.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/917102640?page=2#25

No, his facebook profile doesn't have him self identify as a nationalist, this link is a video of his facebook and twitter profiles.
I haven't found anything about rase in his available writings (from document.no)

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.document.no%2Fanders-behring-breivik%2F

his only reference to race is where he accuses the cultural marxists (presumably what you and I call social democrats) of accusing Israel of waging a racist war against islam. He continually returns to the ideological divide, islam is an ideology in his mind just like cultural marxism is an ideology.

What I worry about here is that he will be labelled a mere racist who killed because he hated race mixing or other races. This man killed for ideological reasons which, based on what he wrote himself, had nothing to do with race.

If he get dismissed as a violent (but competent) race murderer then nothing will change apart from profiling including men of my age, height, politics and skin colour. If we don't figure out what happened in this guy's head then it will happen again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBKmHRZM-94&feature=player_embedded#at=234

[Martinus]

If we don't figure out what happened in this guy's head then it will happen again.

He played a female human mage.

[Viking]

Polish news is reporting there was a second gunner. 

There have been reports of more gunmen, yes, but nothing corroborated. The other man that got arrested was arrested for carrying a knife at the hotel the survivors were moved to after the massacre. This guy was one of the survivors that was so frightened by what happened he decided to arm himself.

[Slargos]

Didn't his Facebook profile say that there are two ideologies today, Internationalism and Nationalism, and he considers himself a Nationalist?

He was also apparently against race-mixing and religion-mixing. It's pretty right winger to me.

Also he played Alliance. QED.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/917102640?page=2#25

No, his facebook profile doesn't have him self identify as a nationalist, this link is a video of his facebook and twitter profiles.
I haven't found anything about rase in his available writings (from document.no)

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.document.no%2Fanders-behring-breivik%2F

his only reference to race is where he accuses the cultural marxists (presumably what you and I call social democrats) of accusing Israel of waging a racist war against islam. He continually returns to the ideological divide, islam is an ideology in his mind just like cultural marxism is an ideology.

What I worry about here is that he will be labelled a mere racist who killed because he hated race mixing or other races. This man killed for ideological reasons which, based on what he wrote himself, had nothing to do with race.

If he get dismissed as a violent (but competent) race murderer then nothing will change apart from profiling including men of my age, height, politics and skin colour. If we don't figure out what happened in this guy's head then it will happen again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBKmHRZM-94&feature=player_embedded#at=234

It is certainly interesting how little interest is placed in facts when an accusation of WitchRacist is made.

Aftonbladet is already running the supremacist angle, and huffing about Nazis.

[Neil]

But shouldn't this actually prompt a kind of self-reflection and chilling effect on people who spout the anti-immigrant bullshit? I mean, it seems to me like people have been going on for years how evil immigrants are causing violence, raping women and this will all lead to a big terrorist attack in the end - but it turns out the guy who caused possibly the greatest tragedy in post-war Norway was one of the people who were saying that.

Not really.  The argument that we shouldn't treat animals decently because Hitler was an animal lover doesn't really carry much weight.  Their ideas about immigrants must stand or fall on their own merit.

Shouldn't this make people feel at least a bit guilty? If an imam in London who argues for a global jihad in his sermons could be seen at least morally responsible for a terrorist attack by some jihadist, wouldn't a "progressive" party populist politician arguing against the evil immigrants and the soft leftist traitors be also at least morally responsible for this?

Is he arguing for people to take up arms against the left?  If so, then he's part of the problem.  Calls for violence are different from calls to organize or political speeches.

[Neil]

If we don't figure out what happened in this guy's head then it will happen again.

He played a female human mage.

So he was gay?  That explains it.

[Norgy]

I just saw a car with newlyweds pass by. Strangely comforting on this day.

Also, if the husband ever forgets the anniversary = epic fail.

[Viking]

I just saw a car with newlyweds pass by. Strangely comforting on this day.

Also, if the husband ever forgets the anniversary = epic fail.

"I'd rather not remember that date" is a perfectly good excuse on his part.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I wonder if this will result in even crazier gun control laws similar to how the singular incident of the Port Arthur massacre in Australia essentially disarmed the entire country.

When I looked at the news this morning I was honestly dumb founded when I saw that 84 were dead on the island. The last I had read 5-6 were dead from the bomb in Oslo and the gunman had been apprehended. Most of these spree shootings are in the sub-20 dead range, with really big ones ranging from 20-40 and I think only 1 or 2 ever going over the 40 number into the 50s range.

In my job we've had meetings about "active shooter scenarios" (that's the security-jargon for this sort of thing) and while most contingency meetings are pretty long and uninteresting (this one was no exception in most respects) something I did learn from it was that most active shooters are not terribly effective in terms of racking up kills. Essentially a lot of active shooters discharge a huge number of rounds many of them missing (that isn't necessarily notable, in sustained fire situations even trained LEOs and soldiers will expend many rounds which are not hits on the enemy), many active shooters do not have the best understanding of firearms or how to kill someone and because of this they tend to focus more on "hits" than on "kills" so many active shooters just try to tag as many people as possible and aren't usually overly thorough in insuring those tagged are killed (many active shooter situations have many more injuries than deaths.)

The active shooter incidents where you have seen a far higher proportion of killed people versus wounded people have tended to be situations in which the shooter is operating at very close range (Cho at VT was working inside the halls of an academic building, so was at quite close range, for example), or a shooter who is willing to make sure his victims are killed (Martin Bryant at Port Arthur methodically pumped rounds into already prone victims.)

It looks like in this scenario the shooter had people who could not get away, and he was methodical in insuring those that he took down were killed outright by following up with close range execution-style shootings. That definitely sucks, and in the back of my mind I always thought we would have an active shooter scenario in which we had much higher death tolls than we have yet seen, just because even the ones with high death tolls (Port Arthur, Columbine, VTech) before had a potential to be much more deadly. I still haven't seen a count on how many persons were injured but not killed on the island.

[Slargos]

AFAIK there's been around 30 wounded brought to the hospital out of which 20 are in critical condition, but from what I can tell that number also includes wounded from the bombing so it would indeed appear most of those shot were either killed instantly or methodically executed. Reports say he was indeed methodically going through his victims although several of them survived by playing dead.

[Liep]

Reading some of the stories the witnesses on the island have told and it's terrifying and so horrible.

[Sheilbh]

Not really as reports that an 'ethnic' Norwegian was responsible were circulating here at around 1930GMT and the Sun would only have been 'put to bed' around  2230-2300GMT, so they had time to ponder their lead, but chose to go with AQ tag.

I was watching the news at work and thought it didn't seem terribly like other Islamist attacks that have succeeded or been foiled.  This seemed very political, not aimed at a symbolic target or maximum number of casualties.  Of course that was before the scale of the shooting became clear.

To the Norwegians here.  It sounds like a mix of something like 7/7 and Dunblane in terms of emotions