No Huckabee in 2012

[crazy canuck]

The only manned voyage to anywhere in space was funded by a national government, as have most, if not all, of the unmanned voyages.

Not sure if that is an argument for or against government funding of technology.

[MadImmortalMan]

The only manned voyage to anywhere in space was funded by a national government, as have most, if not all, of the unmanned voyages.

"Anywhere in space" includes near-earth orbit, doesn't it?

[Neil]

The only manned voyage to anywhere in space was funded by a national government, as have most, if not all, of the unmanned voyages.

"Anywhere in space" includes near-earth orbit, doesn't it?

I only count the lunar voyages, as they were the only ones going somewhere.  Everybody else was just passing through.

[Sheilbh]

Did you dislike Clinton for the same reasons?

Actually those were some of the reasons I did dislike Hillary.  She came across too much like that girl in Election.

I don't think anyone can accuse Bill of lacking humanity.  He may always have wanted to be President but he's still gloriously flawed enough to carry on smoking cigars, binging on fast food and getting blow jobs off interns. 

Bill's character's as flawed as the next man.  That's precisely my problem with Romney: his isn't.  He's got no hinterland there, just an empty room screening his inauguration.  He seems like the sort of person who's been running an incredibly disciplined campaign from when he could walk.

It's like his political beliefs.  I think Romney would shift almost any of them to get a shot at the Presidency, I feel he almost doesn't have any beliefs whatsoever - and that's how his entire character comes across to me.  He seems like a hollow man, a virtual candidate.  That's why I prefer Huntsman or Pawlenty who are, in their own ways, similar.  They seem real.

[Razgovory]

From what I heard in 2008, all the other GOP candidates hated Romney.  Except Paul, who wasn't aware that he was on the same planet as Romney.  Apparently he's a two-faced vicious bastard.  That has to count as a flaw.

[Eddie Teach]

He's also a Mormon.

[Neil]

Clinton did an impressive job covering up for his past, lying about it, and selling himself.  He also had the advantage of running in one of the weakest fields of Democrats since the Civil War.  Tsongas the cancer patient, Jerry Brown the hippie governor, Jackson, Gore and Cuomo not running meant that the field was wide open.

[Neil]

He's also a Mormon.

While that's a little weird, Mormons have their uses.  They use their deep pockets to prevent the legimization of Martinusim.

[garbon]

I never moaned about him sticking with his goals.  It's that he gives the impression that nothing he's ever done has been done without the consideration of his eventual Presidential run.  He's like Gordon Brown without the easy warmth and charm.

Again is ambition that terrible?  Of course, I think you have that last sentence wrong as Romney certainly has more charm than Brown could ever dream of.

I think character matters a lot.  My actual preferences for the Presidency would be Obama, Biden, Huckabee, Rubio, Daniels, Huntsman and maybe Jeb Bush.  I can't think of many other Democrats.

What character do Huntsman and Rubio bring? Being mostly unknown?

I think you underrate the importance of the President having some standing in his own party (a weakness for Romney in many places to be sure).  Obama's "character" didn't seem to help much when members of his own party had better standing in Congress.

Romney is just at the bottom of my anti-preference, with Gravel.

I don't really see how those two could be lumped together.

[grumbler]

Clinton won because he had been a terrific governor of one of the worst states in the country.  That was the past people were looking at.  His charisma helped him, but his record is what sold him to the voters.

Sheilbh, thanks for the explanation.  I still think you are nuts, but I no longer think you are confused.  You simply value political attributes that I despise, and vice-versa. 

[Razgovory]

Clinton did an impressive job covering up for his past, lying about it, and selling himself.  He also had the advantage of running in one of the weakest fields of Democrats since the Civil War.  Tsongas the cancer patient, Jerry Brown the hippie governor, Jackson, Gore and Cuomo not running meant that the field was wide open.

Did they know Tsongas had cancer then?  Anyway, what Clinton's secret was, and it was something the GOP never forgave him for, was that he able to sideline the party nuts (who had been taking over the party in the 1980's.  Conservatives characterized him as the arch-liberal, but he really wasn't one.  Some foolish hippy arch-liberal they could easily pigeon-hole.  A Democrat who takes the center, and even steals conservative ideas is a deadly danger to the Republican party.

[Razgovory]

Clinton won because he had been a terrific governor of one of the worst states in the country.  That was the past people were looking at.  His charisma helped him, but his record is what sold him to the voters.

Sheilbh, thanks for the explanation.  I still think you are nuts, but I no longer think you are confused.  You simply value political attributes that I despise, and vice-versa. 

What did Clinton do that was so terrific as Governor?

[Neil]

I think you underrate the importance of the President having some standing in his own party (a weakness for Romney in many places to be sure).  Obama's "character" didn't seem to help much when members of his own party had better standing in Congress.

True.  Bush was much more effective as a party leader than Obama has been.

[Neil]

Did they know Tsongas had cancer then? 

Yeah, that's what retired him as a Senator in the 80s.

Anyway, what Clinton's secret was, and it was something the GOP never forgave him for, was that he able to sideline the party nuts (who had been taking over the party in the 1980's.  Conservatives characterized him as the arch-liberal, but he really wasn't one.  Some foolish hippy arch-liberal they could easily pigeon-hole.  A Democrat who takes the center, and even steals conservative ideas is a deadly danger to the Republican party.

You really couldn't attack him from the right on policies, which is why they attacked him from the right on his drug-smoking and womanizing.

[grumbler]

What character do Huntsman and Rubio bring? Being mostly unknown?

Don't be too harsh.  Rubio has been a national politician for several months now.  Clearly, he has the experience to be a President.  He even wrote a book!

Huntsman has the background for the job (governor, ambassador, Trade Representative, White House staff). Nothing about his character seems to make him a standout, but he certainly is someone for whom an argument could be made (unlike Rubio).