Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Zoupa]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

[Iormlund]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

Israel already gave ground twice, in southern Lebanon and in Gaza. Both times it was then repeatedly attacked from the area.

Why would they repeat the same mistake again?

[Razgovory]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

Would you give your home to a fascist?

[Admiral Yi]

There would be huge incentives for the in-power political parties/entities to continually broadly define "violence" so at to push off voting rights indefinitely/forever.  Maybe if it were to be monitored/enforced by a robust international authority, but I doubt Israel would ever go for that.

To be clear, i'm talking about individuals gaining voting rights, not the group.  Violence is easy to define at the individual level.

Has the difference in behavior between Israeli Arabs and occupied Arabs ever struck you?

I don't think Israel would ever go for it either--much more radical than two states with a security wall between--but it is a fun thought experiment.

[Zoupa]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

Israel already gave ground twice, in southern Lebanon and in Gaza. Both times it was then repeatedly attacked from the area.

Why would they repeat the same mistake again?

By that logic, Israel needs to invade and occupy Iran.

My question was about 1967 borders. Do you seriously think that the West Bank settlements are a positive for the security of Israel? Somehow the religious nutjobs who expropriate palestinians are what's keeping Haifa safe?

[Zoupa]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

Would you give your home to a fascist?

So in your scenario, the fascist is the palestinian farmer being kicked out, not the israeli religious crazies stealing their land 

[Iormlund]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

Israel already gave ground twice, in southern Lebanon and in Gaza. Both times it was then repeatedly attacked from the area.

Why would they repeat the same mistake again?

By that logic, Israel needs to invade and occupy Iran.

My question was about 1967 borders. Do you seriously think that the West Bank settlements are a positive for the security of Israel? Somehow the religious nutjobs who expropriate palestinians are what's keeping Haifa safe?

Iran is far away and huge. The West Bank and Gaza are neither of those things.

Not talking about settlements here. I'm talking military occupation.
In the case of the West Bank, I don't think anyone can deny that the aggressive segmentation and control of the area has made much harder for Hamas et al to attack Israel proper. Just take a look at the numbers.

[Zoupa]

Well then. I guess Israeli needs > Palestinian rights.

[Iormlund]

Well then. I guess Israeli needs > Palestinian rights.

The first and foremost duty of any government is to safeguard their citizens. So yeah. I can't see why even a less ... extreme Israeli government would withdraw and leave Hamas to rule in either Gaza or the West Bank again.

[Zoupa]

I don't think Hamas has ever governed the West Bank. And sure, the first purpose of the state is to guarantee security to its citizens.

My point is twofold:

1- Israel's conduct and strategy in the West Bank and especially Gaza is not guaranteeing the safety of its citizens.
2- By disregarding international law and UN resolutions, Israel should not expect to be treated as a respectable state in foreign diplomatic relations.

[Razgovory]

Israel is pretty much omnipotent in Gaza and the West Bank. Why do they not just retreat to 1967 borders? That gives them 78% of the territory of the old palestine mandate.

Just go back to your borders and have zero interaction with Palestine. This could happen tomorrow, or anytime in the last 60 years. Can someone explain to me what is the upside of continuous encroaching, settlements, no go zones, occupation etc?

Would you give your home to a fascist?

So in your scenario, the fascist is the palestinian farmer being kicked out, not the israeli religious crazies stealing their land 

No, in my scenario you have to give up your home because some religious crazies massacred a bunch of Francophones.

[Zoupa]

Did I build my home in my neighbour's yard?

[Razgovory]

Did I build my home in my neighbour's yard?

You live on stolen land.

[Zoupa]

Might is right. You'll fit right in with the rest of the putin-loving, fascist admiring MAGA crowd.

[Razgovory]

Might is right. You'll fit right in with the rest of the putin-loving, fascist admiring MAGA crowd.

I don't understand why the Israelis can't make land acknowledgements like Canadians and Americans do.