Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

Auto correct I think 

Owen Smith had a face to face to resign. He asked if Corbyn was prepared to split the party over this. Corbyn replied 'if necessary.'

So maybe leave the Labour Party for him and the other time travelling communists from the 50s, and have the moderates join the LibDems in a pro-EU platform?

[Sheilbh]

Auto correct I think 

Owen Smith had a face to face to resign. He asked if Corbyn was prepared to split the party over this. Corbyn replied 'if necessary.'

Corbyn is, literally, a Bolshevik.

Yep. For all the take the fight to their Tories rhetoric, their main enemy is and always has been the mainstream left.

[Duque de Bragança]

59 % of the French were pro-Brexit.   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX81qynnAVw&feature=youtu.be

Source, a poll shown on a news channel yesterday (itélé).

[OttoVonBismarck]

I've always hated the French.

[Valmy]

I've always hated the French.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I love France, though. It may seem an odd distinction, but it's there.

[Valmy]

I love France, though. It may seem an odd distinction, but it's there.

Well that's fair. Many French people would agree.

[Duque de Bragança]

I love France, though. It may seem an odd distinction, but it's there.

Well that's fair. Many French people would agree.

Yeah, self-loathing is a big thing around there, specially among the left.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I love France, though. It may seem an odd distinction, but it's there.

Well that's fair. Many French people would agree.

Yeah, self-loathing is a big thing around there, specially among the left.

I would imagine that Otto's views are probably the same as most French people 

[Maladict]

Perhaps his Polish gardener has already decamped back to Częstochowa 

I was there yesterday.  Bizarre.

The only place in Poland where I felt decidedly unwelcome as a foreigner. Good choice RH

[The Minsky Moment]

Once you've done that, then sure, signing on for Norway status makes sense--because you've just agreed to the single thing that most Brexiteers had the greatest problem with. Once you do that it's also manifestly stupid to have voted leave at all.

This.
Truly grotesquely stupid.
EFTA makes some sense for tiny countries where full membership wouldn't give them much clout anyway.  Makes no sense for the UK.
That the de facto leader of the official Leave campaign is now invoking the EFTA option just crystallizes the folly of this referendum.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think Johnson's motivation was largely to push Cameron out of power. Now that it's happened I don't think he has a crystallized understanding of what real benefits his country would realize outside of the EU so is proposing, what I suspect, will be a political sleight of hand. The UK will be "out" of the EU, but in every sense that matters (particularly in areas important to Leave voters) it will still functionally be in the EU--except they also lose their actual power in the EU as a consequence of this sleight of hand.

I mean, the timing of Johnson coming out on the Leave side, at least to me, seemed entirely based on his desire to become the leader of the Conservatives and to push out Cameron. He saw it was time to strike, and did so. Now, I do think Boris is a "general euroskeptic", but there are lots of those who don't actually think leaving is a good idea per se.

I'm struggling to figure out, if they agree to freedom of movement, what Britain gets at all by not being in the EU. Maybe some of the fisheries stuff they could control outside of European frameworks? I don't know. But if so leaving the EU over fish is fairly ridiculous.

[Agelastus]

Just like the Fascists managed to convince us during the Great Depression with a chunk of our Establishment respecting Mussolini and sympathizing with Hitler...

If Hitler hadn't turned out to be a crazy warmonger, you betcha the UK would have been totally fine with him (and likely supporting him against Stalin). WW2 didn't start because of antisemitism.

I was pointing out that our domestic political climate didn't become Far-Right and Racist in the 1930s under pressure from the Depression and with actual examples of apparently successful Fascism abroad and Establishment admirers of said Fascist "successes" in the leading circles of government.

The idea of such a thing happening now with a much less racist general populace and the only factor similar to the Thirties being the economic turmoil is, frankly, laughable; Mongers and Tamas are both being hysterical.

Now, as to supporting a "sane", "non-genocidal" Hitler against the Soviets then I imagine we would have done. But that's pretty immaterial in context since we're talking about domestic politics and attitudes. Even in the Thirties the anti-Fascist marches were bigger than the Fascist marches.

[mongers]

I was pointing out that our domestic political climate didn't become Far-Right and Racist in the 1930s under pressure from the Depression and with actual examples of apparently successful Fascism abroad and Establishment admirers of said Fascist "successes" in the leading circles of government.

The idea of such a thing happening now with a much less racist general populace and the only factor similar to the Thirties being the economic turmoil is, frankly, laughable; Mongers and Tamas are both being hysterical.

Now, as to supporting a "sane", "non-genocidal" Hitler against the Soviets then I imagine we would have done. But that's pretty immaterial in context since we're talking about domestic politics and attitudes. Even in the Thirties the anti-Fascist marches were bigger than the Fascist marches.

Epic strawman, do point out to me where I said this.

[Agelastus]

Epic strawman, do point out to me where I said this.

Of course -

Gaby, I think you're missing that the extreme right in Britain is now on the march, it'll feed off of any political indecision and take advantage of that vacuum.

What's now kicking off within the Labour party is a godsend to them, they can reposition themselves as the real voice of the British working class in those former labour heartlands.

What's going to be UKIP's platform now though? They essentially just achieved the party's raison d'être. Damn, it's even the name of the party.

Use Immigrants Out as a tool to gain political power and make the UK a bastion of the extreme right.

FYP

Perhaps you would like to clarify your position?