Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Zanza]

I can tell you that the number one issue was control

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.

The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry. Yes, there will be a substantial sum of money which we will no longer send to Brussels, but which could be used on priorities such as the NHS. Yes, we will be able to do free trade deals with the growth economies of the world in a way that is currently forbidden.

How does he want to pull that off? The Norway model is the opposite of taking control, it does not limit immigration and you are not free to do FTAs. An FTA with the EU would not allow British people to work or settle down in the EU automatically.

The BDI is the German industry lobby group. They are of course in favor of continued trade. But what's in there for the Romanian or Estonian government...?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Johnson is being duplicitous--something that politicians seem to do as easy as breathing.

Some of the stuff he lists aren't even really that much in doubt. "Travel" is certainly not in doubt, it's effortless for Americans or Canadians to travel to Europe, so that's not even really anything. It's also very easy for Americans to study abroad in Europe, and not terribly uncommon. So it likely wouldn't be any harder for Brits, it may be slightly harder than they are used to, but not all that much. Most first world countries make it pretty easy to go and live in that country for a few years for educational purposes. Buying property also usually isn't too hard, but someone without permanent residency in a country usually faces some awkwardness in their overseas real estate. For young people there are things like the working holiday visa in the Schengen area that citizens of countries like Canada and Australia can get that lets them sort of loaf around for up to two years, and there's no reason to expect young Brits wouldn't have access to that program.

Any sort of long term employment and "settling down", Johnson is of course being facetious, there is no way to allow for those things easily without essentially agreeing to bilateral general freedom of movement. Once you've done that, then sure, signing on for Norway status makes sense--because you've just agreed to the single thing that most Brexiteers had the greatest problem with. Once you do that it's also manifestly stupid to have voted leave at all.

[Zanza]

It's also very easy for Americans to study abroad in Europe, and not terribly uncommon. So it likely wouldn't be any harder for Brits, it may be slightly harder than they are used to, but not all that much.

The difference will be that British students can't access the Erasmus money from the EU anymore, which is meant to support studying in the abroad in the EU. Similarly, EU students will have a harder time to get Erasmus stipends to study in the UK. It will not be a huge impact, but it will surely reduce the numbers of students going each way. Exactly the opposite of what we need in this globalized world... 

[Sheilbh]

Corbyn's appointed a who who shadow cabinet, many were first elected in 2015. The junior shadow ministers are now starting their round of resignations, it's not clear Corbyn's has enough PLP support to replace them.

And the Times thinks there are three competing coup attempts going on in Labour.

[Tamas]

You know, you can clearly see Corbyn is a lazy good for nothing by his god damn little tree in front of his entrance:



He has to duck every time he exists or enters his home. He could do something about it, you know, it's his yard. But nooo.

[garbon]

It's also very easy for Americans to study abroad in Europe, and not terribly uncommon. So it likely wouldn't be any harder for Brits, it may be slightly harder than they are used to, but not all that much.

The difference will be that British students can't access the Erasmus money from the EU anymore, which is meant to support studying in the abroad in the EU. Similarly, EU students will have a harder time to get Erasmus stipends to study in the UK. It will not be a huge impact, but it will surely reduce the numbers of students going each way. Exactly the opposite of what we need in this globalized world... 

Probably not all that big of an issue in the grander scheme.

[Solmyr]

Just like the Fascists managed to convince us during the Great Depression with a chunk of our Establishment respecting Mussolini and sympathizing with Hitler...

If Hitler hadn't turned out to be a crazy warmonger, you betcha the UK would have been totally fine with him (and likely supporting him against Stalin). WW2 didn't start because of antisemitism.

[Richard Hakluyt]

You know, you can clearly see Corbyn is a lazy good for nothing by his god damn little tree in front of his entrance:



He has to duck every time he exists or enters his home. He could do something about it, you know, it's his yard. But nooo.

Perhaps his Polish gardener has already decamped back to Częstochowa 

[Zanza]

Probably not all that big of an issue in the grander scheme.

Of course not. But there are many such integration & cooperation initiatives in many policy areas, all within the framework of the European Union. It's more than just the single market.

[Queequeg]

You know, you can clearly see Corbyn is a lazy good for nothing by his god damn little tree in front of his entrance:



He has to duck every time he exists or enters his home. He could do something about it, you know, it's his yard. But nooo.

Perhaps his Polish gardener has already decamped back to Częstochowa 

I was there yesterday.  Bizarre. 

[Duque de Bragança]

Infiltration tactics, subvert from within 

Bloody trotskyite tactics a.k.a entrism! 

[celedhring]

Probably not all that big of an issue in the grander scheme.

Of course not. But there are many such integration & cooperation initiatives in many policy areas, all within the framework of the European Union. It's more than just the single market.

Yeah, there are plenty of transnational cooperation programs in the media industry too. A few months ago we brought in a Brit background artist for a project that's still gestating, and we met him through one of such programs. It was all so quick and efficient too. Call the dude on Friday, on Monday he's in Barcelona to start working with us. No red tape, no applications, no permits. It always makes me laugh how the "Brussels bureaucracy prevents us from doing business" brigade ultimately want to add another layer of red tape over essentially everything that will happen between our countries.

[Sheilbh]

Interesting point raised by some constitutional lawyers, their view is that Parliament needs to trigger Article 50. The executive can't do it alone.

Edit: Labour resignations continue, I can now really see the party splitting

Corban has promised to continue his reshuffle and has promised some 'surprising names' will be appointed. Looking forward to the Fat Controller finally taking over transport and Mr Tumness' eventual appointment to agriculture.

[Zanza]

Interesting point raised by some constitutional lawyers, their view is that Parliament needs to trigger Article 50. The executive can't do it alone.

Considering that the UK joined the European Union with the 1972 EEC Act, it makes sense that it is parliament that decides to leave as well.

[garbon]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/sirajdatoo/labour-mp-tells-jeremy-corbyn-its-not-about-you?utm_term=.psk3eVBop#.gevKwxo4J

Labour MP Jess Phillips Tells Jeremy Corbyn "It's Not About You" As She Quits As Aide


Dear Jeremy,

I feel a bit silly writing to resign from my position as the Parliamentary Private Secretary in your shadow education team. It seems a big grand, being as I'm sure most people don't pay the position I had any mind at all, but apparently it is what we do.

I want to thank you for, in the most part responding to me, if I had questions. You haven't had an easy ride, you remained calm throughout.

My main concern is that I'm not sure how good you are at using what people say or need to enact change. I think in this time of huge shifts the opposition myst be at its strongest and its best. Saying stuff won't cut it. We are going to need strong heads, open flexible hearts and detailed forensic wits.

Writing to saying anything against you risks my job, the livelihood of my family, the threats are already rolling in. Turns out when you stand up for what you believe you are principled. When I do it I am an opportunist, careerist Blairite or even a Zionist plotter. Funny that, I am a socialist. I live my life as a socialist. I speak up regardless of the risk because I am considerably less important than the struggle.

I love being the MP in Yardley, never a day goes by when my constituents don't make me smile or make me want to stay up all night fighting their corner. I'd give up tomorrow if I thought my going would rid my constituents of a government that leaves many of them in despair. My mom and dad taught me that socialism isn't words, it's action, deeds not words and all that.

The Labour party is not about you, it's about us, most of all it's about them, the brilliant people in the UK, even the ones who don't agree with us. We need action, we really needed it last week, the week before.

I'm really worried that you cannot see that you have made this all about you and not about them. Be the socialist you saw you are, do the right thing and let the Labour party be the opposition it needs to be now, when people need it most.

All the best, I know none of this has been easy on you and your loves ones. Nobody deserves some for the crap you have put up with. Sorry if I was ever to blame for any upset, perhaps sometimes I took straight talking honest politics a little too literally.