The Off Topic Topic

[The Larch]

I was thinking about possible black historical roles, and i wonder why no one has made a movie about Patrice Lumumba.

There are a couple of French language ones, according to wiki.

[celedhring]

Okay - interesting. I think part of this may be that I did English at university. So I think for biopics there's an obvious case for non-colourblind casting, but there are potentially real figures - like Cleopatra, Antony, Julius Caesar, the Henrys, Robin Hood - that I almost don't see this as a biopic or a historical film. They are literary characters. And I don't really see the difference between film and play.

Are we talking about the Shakespeare plays? Because again I feel totally different about theatre. The medium matters a lot.

No - although out of interest how would you feel about a film adaptation of a Shakespeare play?

Denzel Washington as Prince Pedro of Aragón in Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing comes to mind. 

Yeah, that one works because that play is essentially a fantasy. The characters in it are not really representing any real historical person.

Of course you can take a historical subject and recast the races in it to make a discourse about that. Kinda like Hamilton does.

[The Larch]

Yeah, that one works because that play is essentially a fantasy. The characters in it are not really representing any real historical person.

That's why I said afterwards that Shakespeare seems quite suitable for this kind of casting given how detached from reality his plays are in many ocasions. I mean, Romeo and Juliet is set in Verona, but you can swap it for almost any city in the world and it doesn't really change the plot, it's just meant to be an exotic location for an Elizabethan era English person.

[celedhring]

Yeah, that one works because that play is essentially a fantasy. The characters in it are not really representing any real historical person.

That's why I said afterwards that Shakespeare seems quite suitable for this kind of casting given how detached from reality his plays are in many ocasions. I mean, Romeo and Juliet is set in Verona, but you can swap it for almost any city in the world and it doesn't really change the plot, it's just meant to be an exotic location for an Elizabethan era English person.

Like Luhrmann's version, which is set essentially in 1990s LA and features a black Mercutio and a latino Thybalt.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, that one works because that play is essentially a fantasy. The characters in it are not really representing any real historical person.

That's why I said afterwards that Shakespeare seems quite suitable for this kind of casting given how detached from reality his plays are in many ocasions. I mean, Romeo and Juliet is set in Verona, but you can swap it for almost any city in the world and it doesn't really change the plot, it's just meant to be an exotic location for an Elizabethan era English person.

Yes - but also it's often where the source material set the story. The Italian source for Romeo and Juliet sets it in Verona. I think he generally matches the source material and if not as you say somewhere interesting and exotic.

[The Larch]

Yeah, that one works because that play is essentially a fantasy. The characters in it are not really representing any real historical person.

That's why I said afterwards that Shakespeare seems quite suitable for this kind of casting given how detached from reality his plays are in many ocasions. I mean, Romeo and Juliet is set in Verona, but you can swap it for almost any city in the world and it doesn't really change the plot, it's just meant to be an exotic location for an Elizabethan era English person.

Like Luhrmann's version, which is set essentially in 1990s LA and features a black Mercutio and a latino Thybalt.

Or West Side Story. 

[Valmy]

Yeah, that one works because that play is essentially a fantasy. The characters in it are not really representing any real historical person.

Of course you can take a historical subject and recast the races in it to make a discourse about that. Kinda like Hamilton does.

Yeah I think that works great. And with Hamilton it is a stage play and not supposed to be a literal representation like some big historical mainstream film.

Likewise a film adaptation of Hamilton couldn't be like Braveheart. It would have to heavily lean into its stage roots to work, IMO.

So I guess a film adaptation of a play might still work with colorblind casting, depending upon how you do it.

So I guess I concede that. A film could work with colorbind casting It just depends on how literally you are presenting it as representing the real people. There we go.

But why not tell stories that are about other cultures? People seemed to like Moana, Coco, and animated Mulan no? Live action might work, just better than live action Mulan 

[Duque de Bragança]

Dirty money

Non olet! 

[Syt]

[celedhring]

 

[Tamas]

If I stop reading the Guardian it will be because of the word "urged". I can't abide reading 2-3 times every time I scroll through their main page.

[Duque de Bragança]

I don't think society is ready for color blind casting in for instance 12 Years A Slave.

It is almost like Sheilbh addressed such a thing in his second paragraph.

To which I'd add if race is sort of a big topic of the film then obviously it shouldn't be colour blind. Othello doesn't necessarily work if it's colour-blind, for example, similarly Selma would be less effective.

Othello is described as a Moor, so not necessarily black per se. That's North African, most likely muslim so the racial angle (black and white) is not automatically warranted.
Moor got pretty vague later on, but that goes both way.
St Augustine, in Roman times, was North African (Moor), half at the very least.
Or Hannibal, Carthago so Punic, with some Berber on the side, (not the History Channel black version) even earlier.

[Razgovory]

Act 1 Scene 1

IAGO:  Zounds, sir, you're robbed! For shame, put on your gown.
Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul.
Even now, now, very now, an old black ram
Is tupping your white ewe. Arise, arise,
Awake the snorting citizens with the bell
Or else the devil will make a grandsire of you.
Arise, I say!

[celedhring]

Moors were considered "black" in that time. Plenty of examples in Spanish culture too.

[Agelastus]

I am sick to death of people who, when asked in an email to supply (for example) three pieces of information, only reply with one.

Especially when they ask me to confirm something as soon as possible when they haven't given me the information I have asked for so that I can work out the something that I need to confirm to them!

Do I really have to send three emails, one for each item, to get the information I need...