The Off Topic Topic

[Grey Fox]

Gal Gadot outrage is always because she's from Israel.

[HVC]

Gal Gadot outrage is always because she's from Israel.

That's probably part of it. There's also large amount of people that think Egyptians are black because Egypt is in Africa.

[celedhring]

Even if they were, Cleopatra descended from a line of incestuous Macedonians. But Grey Fox has the truth of it.

[Habbaku]

The few exchanges I've seen have people criticizing Gadot for not being African, then shifting their attacks to her being a Zionist when others point out Cleopatra wasn't Black.

[derspiess]

Tyr notes your outrage.

[Sheilbh]

Even if they were, Cleopatra descended from a line of incestuous Macedonians. But Grey Fox has the truth of it.

Yeah. I mean I generally think we should move to colour blind casting (to reference it again - I think it's one of nice bits of the recent David Copperfield adaptation) so don't have an issue with this. Especially in the UK where we have two-three modes of film-making (heritage drama that sells well internationally; almost comically gritty/tragic/heart-rending social realist films about the Thatcher era; and bad comedies), we lose so many talented minority actors because they're just not considered for most of those films. David Copperfield shows the way forward.

But then I also think if there are roles that are typically portrayed as black or LGBT or whatever else, I kind of feel preference should be given to those actors because of the under-representation issue we have. As opposed to "we did colour-blind casting and have accidentally and inexplicably ended up with a cast solely made up of white, Oxbridge educated men" - which can happen in the UK

[Malthus]

But then I also think if there are roles that are typically portrayed as black or LGBT or whatever else, I kind of feel preference should be given to those actors because of the under-representation issue we have. As opposed to "we did colour-blind casting and have accidentally and inexplicably ended up with a cast solely made up of white, Oxbridge educated men" - which can happen in the UK

That would certainly be a bold casting move for Cleopatra. 😉

[Tamas]

Cleopatra wasn't black. There are about a dozen people in the world who think every single person on the continent of Africa is black and have always been, and when one of them makes a mention of Cleopatra the world press joyfully jump on it to report the "outrage"

[Josquius]

Yeah. This is the kind of thing comments sections are full of. As totally, Gal Gadot can definitely pass for Greek and comes from the country next door to Egypt anyway.
The thing is...I haven't seen anyone presenting the initial argument that this is wrong.

Incidentally my mind now goes back to Louis Theroux meeting the black nationalists with their book that proves every significant historic figure ever was black. Wonderful.

[HVC]

they should go for true historicity and cast an ugly women that everyone calls beautiful because men wanted her for her money and power

[Josquius]

they should go for true historicity and cast an ugly women that everyone calls beautiful because men wanted her for her money and power

Could actually work quite well for a comedic take.
See also Elizabeth I.

[Sheilbh]

But then I also think if there are roles that are typically portrayed as black or LGBT or whatever else, I kind of feel preference should be given to those actors because of the under-representation issue we have. As opposed to "we did colour-blind casting and have accidentally and inexplicably ended up with a cast solely made up of white, Oxbridge educated men" - which can happen in the UK

That would certainly be a bold casting move for Cleopatra. 😉

I mean Mark Rylance has played Cleopatra. Admittedly I give Mark Rylance a pass because he's done a number of all male productions of Shakespeare and genuinely brings something interesting to the play. But there's a tedious amount of all-male theatre groups in the UK which is just not adding much, I don't think, to those works at this stage - it's been done by everyone, it's been done by Mark Rylance who is a better actor than you - stop

[Malthus]

In a scene that will "go down in the anals of history", a Brazilian senator is caught with cash "clenched between his buttocks":

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/brazil-police-cash-jair-bolsonaro-ally-buttocks-chico-rodrigues

[derspiess]

Dirty money

[Valmy]

Yeah. I mean I generally think we should move to colour blind casting

I don't. I think real people should be represented to resemble the actual person as much as possible. I think people just want white washing to stop, which I completely agree with. It is ridiculous to do so these days anyway, as we have plenty of actors of all different backgrounds now in most big film centers.

But this goes for movies. Movies should, at least mainstream ones, attempt to look like reality. For stage plays I have no problem at all with color-blind casting as everything in a play is representational. You can actually say a lot about the character with what kind of ethnicity you have playing them.

Particularly for period pieces, they are so powerful in creating people's mental take away from that era that I think there is an obligation to make it look accurate (even if obviously everybody isn't going to be speaking accurate languages or dialects and the liberties will be taken with the story itself). I mean you can say what you want about William Wallace, most people think he looked like Mel Gibson subconciously and that medieval Scots painted their faces blue and wore plaid. It doesn't matter how many times you point out otherwise, the image on screen is very powerful.

The fact that Cleopatra and her family are part of a small foreign elite ruling over Egypt is an important part of the story, along with her attempts to pander to the regular Egyptians to get them on her side against her brother.