The Off Topic Topic

[Sheilbh]

So basically we agree, it's just that a recent tradition of English theatre has Othello as a black African (sub-saharan).
It's a choice, but not the ultimate choice.

I mean define recent - the original reception tradition portrayed him as African. Certainly in the 1660s Othello is written about and perfromed as black and not North African.

The 20th century generally does, but there is a mix in who actually does the portraying. There are a number of white actors who've played Othello (Olivier, Schofield, Hopkins, Stewart), because it is a great role. Some of those are in photo-negative productions (Stewart), some are blacked up (Olivier is more "black", while Hopkins is more "Moorish"), the latest RSC production was actually a modern dress production (which really honed in on the violence and the military angle) with a black Othello (played by a British-Ghanian actor) and a black Iago (played by a British-Zimbabwean actor) and basically made it about racism between ethnic groups.

I don't think there'd be any surprise in a North African or "Moorish" setting of the play.

[Duque de Bragança]

So basically we agree, it's just that a recent tradition of English theatre has Othello as a black African (sub-saharan).
It's a choice, but not the ultimate choice.

I mean define recent - the original reception tradition portrayed him as African. Certainly in the 1660s Othello is written about and perfromed as black and not North African.

The 20th century generally does, but there is a mix in who actually does the portraying. There are a number of white actors who've played Othello (Olivier, Schofield, Hopkins, Stewart), because it is a great role. Some of those are in photo-negative productions (Stewart), some are blacked up (Olivier is more "black", while Hopkins is more "Moorish"), the latest RSC production was actually a modern dress production (which really honed in on the violence and the military angle) with a black Othello (played by a British-Ghanian actor) and a black Iago (played by a British-Zimbabwean actor) and basically made it about racism between ethnic groups.

I don't think there'd be any surprise in a North African or "Moorish" setting of the play.

Africa in Shakespeare's time could mean just North Africa, as opposed to the now old-fashioned meaning of Guinea or Guineans (Black Africa as in Sub-saharan Africa). The word came through Portuguese where it was used to distinguish between Africa and Guiné (same old-fashioned meanings). Brits tangled up things locally by coming up with names such as Sierra Leone (half Castilian half Italian).

As for recent, I would say from the 20th century on, going very strong today.

Wiki's reasonably sourced-article is inconclusive:

She states that by 1604, accounts of Othello as deriving from farther south were not uncommon.[10] She notes Roderigo's description of Othello having "thick lips" was a racial stereotype used by 16th century explorers for southern Africans.[11] Modern-day readers and theatre directors lean away from a North African Moorish interpretation[12] but Shakespeare's textual references are unclear. Iago twice uses the word "Barbary" or "Barbarian" to refer to Othello, seemingly referring to the Barbary coast inhabited by the "tawny" Moors. Roderigo calls Othello "the thicklips", which seems to refer to European conceptions of Sub-Saharan African physiognomy, but Honigmann counters that, as these comments are all intended as insults by the characters, they need not be taken literally.[13]

Ira Aldridge pioneered the prominence of black actors in the role, beginning in 1825 in London.[18] Othello was also frequently performed as an Arab Moor during the 19th century. In the past, Othello would often have been portrayed by a white actor in blackface. Black American actor Paul Robeson played the role from 1930 to 1959. Recent actors who chose to "blacken up" include Laurence Olivier (1965) and Orson Welles. Black English actor Wil Johnson, known for his roles in Waking the Dead and Emmerdale, played Othello on stage in 2004. Since the 1960s it has become commonplace to cast a black actor in the character of Othello, although the casting of the role now can come with a political subtext.[19] Patrick Stewart took the role in the Shakespeare Theatre Company's 1997 staging of the play [20][21] and Thomas Thieme, also white, played Othello in a 2007 Munich Kammerspiele staging at the Royal Shakespeare Theatre; both played without blackface, their performances critically acclaimed.[22][23]

[The Brain]

Paul Robeson played the role from 1930 to 1959

The Bladder Master.

[Eddie Teach]

Moors don't piss? 

[The Brain]

Moors don't piss? 

Not on stage. Except maybe in Germany or something idk.

[Eddie Teach]

He's not in EVERY scene. 

[Josquius]

Maybe relevant to some other UK based folks. Fill in a 10 minute form to get £6 a week tax relief for working from home. Sounds like nothing and doesn't cover the costs at all, but better than absolutely nothing

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/oct/16/working-from-home-tax-relief-hmrc-covid

[Admiral Yi]

Memorandum to all posters beginning posts with "I mean"

1.  I don't want to name names, but Shelf, and to a much lesser extent Meri, should pay the most attention.  Please cease and desist from employing this phrase.  It serves no communication purpose.  It is filler.  It's like spelling out um or er.  It makes no sense at the start of a post because there's nothing preceding it that needs clarification. 

2.  Does anyone have any theory as to the source of this affectation?  Some reality show?  Some blue haired youtube influencer?  It sounds vaguely valley girlish to me.

[Sheilbh]

Memorandum to all posters beginning posts with "I mean"

1.  I don't want to name names, but Shelf, and to a much lesser extent Meri, should pay the most attention.  Please cease and desist from employing this phrase.  It serves no communication purpose.  It is filler.  It's like spelling out um or er.  It makes no sense at the start of a post because there's nothing preceding it that needs clarification. 

I mean, I disagree

Also it can definitely be something preceding it because posts are conversations with each other not on their own, so it can be clarifying something else you've previously said or suggesting a clarification of something someone else has said ("I mean, x"), or disagreeing/expressing disbelief/incredulity in a more gentle way "I mean, sure, but". In general though I just type thoughts as I speak so....

2.  Does anyone have any theory as to the source of this affectation?  Some reality show?  Some blue haired youtube influencer?  It sounds vaguely valley girlish to me.

From a brief search it's been in use since the 1830s at least. It was used in a lot in Clueless and there - sadly - is the source of affected exasparation at valley girl speak

[grumbler]

Memorandum to all posters beginning posts with "I mean"

1.  I don't want to name names, but Shelf, and to a much lesser extent Meri, should pay the most attention.  Please cease and desist from employing this phrase.  It serves no communication purpose.  It is filler.  It's like spelling out um or er.  It makes no sense at the start of a post because there's nothing preceding it that needs clarification. 

2.  Does anyone have any theory as to the source of this affectation?  Some reality show?  Some blue haired youtube influencer?  It sounds vaguely valley girlish to me.

It is used to emphasize that one is trying to clarify a preceding statement in a more specific way.  It's not necessary, but I don't understand why it is objectionable.  I mean, it seems harmless, but maybe there's something that I am missing.

[The Brain]

Memorandum to all posters beginning posts with "I mean"

1.  I don't want to name names, but Shelf, and to a much lesser extent Meri, should pay the most attention.  Please cease and desist from employing this phrase.  It serves no communication purpose.  It is filler.  It's like spelling out um or er.  It makes no sense at the start of a post because there's nothing preceding it that needs clarification. 

2.  Does anyone have any theory as to the source of this affectation?  Some reality show?  Some blue haired youtube influencer?  It sounds vaguely valley girlish to me.

It is used to emphasize that one is trying to clarify a preceding statement in a more specific way.  It's not necessary, but I don't understand why it is objectionable.  I mean, it seems harmless, but maybe there's something that I am missing.

What do you mean?

[grumbler]

Memorandum to all posters beginning posts with "I mean"

1.  I don't want to name names, but Shelf, and to a much lesser extent Meri, should pay the most attention.  Please cease and desist from employing this phrase.  It serves no communication purpose.  It is filler.  It's like spelling out um or er.  It makes no sense at the start of a post because there's nothing preceding it that needs clarification. 

2.  Does anyone have any theory as to the source of this affectation?  Some reality show?  Some blue haired youtube influencer?  It sounds vaguely valley girlish to me.

It is used to emphasize that one is trying to clarify a preceding statement in a more specific way.  It's not necessary, but I don't understand why it is objectionable.  I mean, it seems harmless, but maybe there's something that I am missing.

What do you mean?

I mean, I don't know. 

[Admiral Yi]

I mean, I disagree

If you hadn't put "I mean" in front of that, would that mean you didn't mean it?

[Sheilbh]

I mean, I disagree

If you hadn't put "I mean" in front of that, would that mean you didn't mean it?

It's more the second category: softening the blow/making more gently how vehemently I disagree and am incredulous about your comment

[Admiral Yi]

Are you spending your free time with mouth breathers?