Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Duque de Bragança]

Islamofools are far more dangerous than Le Pen though. They hate the very concept of the west

I guess I will wait to see all the Islam the French left tries to do then. If you are siding with Russia I have a hard time seeing you don't hate the very concept of the west, since that is what Russia seems to be primarily about.

But one group that hates the concept of the west might be worse than the other.

I mean when you say Islam, are you just saying they are pro-immigration in general? Or are they out to ban all alcoholic beverages in France? I mean I understand Le Pen and the FN, they have been around for ages. I don't really get the fanatically Islamic French Socialists. That wasn't around in the 1990s. So explain that one beyond just saying "fools! Islamofacists!" or whatever.

Muslims and Islamists, not just in France, side with Putin unabashedly.
Even Marine (not Zemmour nearly irrelevant now) does not go that far.

Mélenchon is also pro-Hamas, pro-Hezbo(bo)llah, not pro-Palestine.

[Duque de Bragança]

Ideally the coalition around him will let him do some economic left-wing stuff (France is big on that anyhow isn't it) but block him from the "ah, Russia, MY kind of fascist empire!" things.

Yeah this looks like a risky move that paid off for Macron. Very French result, a centrist president with a leftist government.

Comparing Mélenchon with Jospin is insulting to the latter. Jospin was a moderate, who clearly saw the pseudo "anti-fascist" stances directed at the FN as mere theatre.

Mélenchon has also sided with Erdogan against Macron when the latter was trying to help Lebanon, unlike Marine or Bardella. Remember that's the one who lead the RN in this election, not Marine.
Also the confrontation in the Aegean a couple of years ago between Greece vs Turkey, Macron got a rare satisfecit from all the political spectrum (including Marine and Bardella) except islamo-leftists.
Bardella is more popular than Marine, as a matter of fact. He was the face and leader of this campaign for the RN, not Marine. He also had some pro-Ukraine statements, unlike Mélenchon, so it's not a matter of ideology à la islamo-leftist. Clearly something that can be bargained.

[Josquius]

Reporting I've seen mentions relief in Kyiv.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/07/08/what-does-the-french-left-wing-alliances-shock-election-win-mean-for-europe

Melanchon is just one man in a coalition. I guess the rest of the left has rather more pro Ukrainian views?

[Duque de Bragança]

According to what Duque posted LFI only has 70ish seats in that left coalition. He is certainly a much lesser threat than RN at the moment. Potential influence in a wider coalition seems somewhat limited.

But France doesn't look very governable atm.

The record of LFI in the Assemblée nationale is pretty bad. RN's opposition was more constructive, agreeing in some case with Macro and LR, than LFI locked in a dramatic, puerile but ultimately sterile opposition.

[Duque de Bragança]

Reporting I've seen mentions relief in Kyiv.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/07/08/what-does-the-french-left-wing-alliances-shock-election-win-mean-for-europe

Melanchon is just one man in a coalition. I guess the rest of the left has rather more pro Ukrainian views?

Not really.
He is the main leader of that opposition, somewhat charismatic and a decent (not great) orator.
As for the rest of the left, views vary quite wildly, as in the French right and conservatives, to be fair. Hell, even Macron changes views whenever it suits him.

[Valmy]

Muslims and Islamists, not just in France, side with Putin unabashedly.
Even Marine (not Zemmour nearly irrelevant now) does not go that far.

Mélenchon is also pro-Hamas, pro-Hezbo(bo)llah, not pro-Palestine.

Even after Putin sided with Assad in the Syrian Civil War? Ah well.

[Valmy]

Hell, even Macron changes views whenever it suits him.

Heh. I remember that Macron political compass you posted back in the day.

[viper37]

Maybe France needs a better standard bearer for laïcité than Marine Le Pen.

If only she was for laïcité.  She's just Richelieu in new clothes.

Bad example. Richelieu was actually quite competent. 
If helping himself with the French treasury (less so than Mazarin) though while leaving the French State in a much better... state.
Don't believe Alexandre Dumas, who himself changed view in the follow-ups of the Three Musketeers.

True, Richelieu was a religious extremist, but he was highly competent at his job, so we see him in a good light.

I can't think of any incompetent religious extremist in French history.

I'm sure there were plenty, they just don't come to mind quickly like that.

[viper37]

soumission still on track in other words...

It's better than the pro-Putin party cutting off all aid to Ukraine.

Marine Le Pen had announced just 2 days ago that she would impose restrictions on Ukraine to their use of French weapons against Russia.

Macron is an idiot, as much as Justin Trudeau is.  "Post national country" only works when it suits them, as a political slogan.

Mélenchon's party is the (other) pro-Putin party that will cut all aid to Ukraine.

They are in a an uneasy coalition that needs to govern.  I doubt they would even try it to preserve their coalition.  And I don't see them aligning with the RN just to fuck with Ukraine.  Or the Jewish population of France.

So I'm less worried with a divided Assemblée Nationale than a united one behind Marine.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The results of this election encapsulate pretty perfectly why I have turned my backs on the Dems--left parties cannot be trusted not to go antisemitic.

[viper37]

soumission still on track in other words...

It's better than the pro-Putin party cutting off all aid to Ukraine.

Marine Le Pen had announced just 2 days ago that she would impose restrictions on Ukraine to their use of French weapons against Russia.

Macron is an idiot, as much as Justin Trudeau is.  "Post national country" only works when it suits them, as a political slogan.

Islamofools are far more dangerous than Le Pen though. They hate the very concept of the west

And Putin juste loves the very concept of the West?

Don't kid yourself.  They hate us just as much, they hate our modern values of freedom and tolerance, they are in for themselves.

Lepen's sister has visited occupied Ukraine a number of times, so has a number of high ranking FN members and they're all in Russia's payroll like the high ranking GOP officers.

They're not our friends, they're not there to defend us or our values, they are there to sow dissent and distrust.

They started with the Jews and moved on with the Arabs and other immigrants.  Now they rail against Ukraine and Ukrainians.

[crazy canuck]

The results of this election encapsulate pretty perfectly why I have turned my backs on the Dems--left parties cannot be trusted not to go antisemitic.

Yep. There was a fascist party for you.

[Valmy]

Yeah but everything short of aligning every single priority of the country with Netanyahu's whims is considered antisemitism by Otto.

Follow your own interests in a completely pointless and toothless UN vote? Clearly Islam has taken over the US. Nevermind the full force of the Democratic Party was unleashed to take down Jamaal Bowman for grandstanding about Israel. Biden once abstained on a UN vote that changed nothing, so therefore the entire United States must be burned to the ground.

[Legbiter]

Comparing Mélenchon with Jospin is insulting to the latter. Jospin was a moderate, who clearly saw the pseudo "anti-fascist" stances directed at the FN as mere theatre.

Mélenchon has also sided with Erdogan against Macron when the latter was trying to help Lebanon, unlike Marine or Bardella.

Yeah from a distance he's combining socialism with seething thirdie Muslim characteristics to remain electorally viable. 

[HVC]

Yeah but everything short of aligning every single priority of the country with Netanyahu's whims is considered antisemitism by Otto.

To those truly terrified the boogie man always seems bigger than he really is.