Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Crazy_Ivan80]

soumission still on track in other words...

It's better than the pro-Putin party cutting off all aid to Ukraine.

Marine Le Pen had announced just 2 days ago that she would impose restrictions on Ukraine to their use of French weapons against Russia.

Macron is an idiot, as much as Justin Trudeau is.  "Post national country" only works when it suits them, as a political slogan.

Islamofools are far more dangerous than Le Pen though. They hate the very concept of the west

And Putin juste loves the very concept of the West?

Don't kid yourself.  They hate us just as much, they hate our modern values of freedom and tolerance, they are in for themselves.

Lepen's sister has visited occupied Ukraine a number of times, so has a number of high ranking FN members and they're all in Russia's payroll like the high ranking GOP officers.

They're not our friends, they're not there to defend us or our values, they are there to sow dissent and distrust.

They started with the Jews and moved on with the Arabs and other immigrants.  Now they rail against Ukraine and Ukrainians.

And yet the Greens and PS are cavorting with the scum that is Melenchon: Putin-lover, Ukraine-hater, Hamas-friend. It says alot about those parties. If the meant what they said they wouldn't even be in an alliance with Melenchon. It wouldn't even be considered.
Yet here we are...

[Valmy]

I guess. Maybe they think they can control him and utilize his supporters to gain the electoral strength to form a government. That always goes well.

[Solmyr]

All you really need to know about who is Putinist and who isn't is that Russia is accusing the French left of "stealing the election".

Cry more, fascists.

[DGuller]

I read an editorial by Anne Applebaum a couple of months ago that made perfect sense.  She basically wrote that Russia and China understand that their authoritarian regimes will never be safe if there are examples of functioning democracies for their citizens to see.  Therefore, just out of sense of the preservation of their own regimes, they have set out to destroy the functioning of all the democracies.  She also claimed that so far they were having good success, which I find hard to argue with.

[Valmy]

I read an editorial by Anne Applebaum a couple of months ago that made perfect sense.  She basically wrote that Russia and China understand that their authoritarian regimes will never be safe if there are examples of functioning democracies for their citizens to see.  Therefore, just out of sense of the preservation of their own regimes, they have set out to destroy the functioning of all the democracies.  She also claimed that so far they were having good success, which I find hard to argue with.

Nothing can probably save Russia at this point. Putin has taken the situation from serious to hopeful to desperate to hopeless in just 20 years. Too bad he seems determined to fuck everybody else up, destroying Russia might have been too simple of a challenge.

[viper37]

And yet the Greens and PS are cavorting with the scum that is Melenchon: Putin-lover, Ukraine-hater, Hamas-friend. It says alot about those parties. If the meant what they said they wouldn't even be in an alliance with Melenchon. It wouldn't even be considered.
Yet here we are...

Churchill gladly worked with Staline to defeat Hitler.  I guess he was a of communism.  Roosevelt too, an ardent supporter of communism.

During the Vietnam war, the US worked with a lat of unsavory individuals and organizations to fight the North and the Viet Kong, including drug traffickers.

And then we have Afghanistan.  The Northern Alliance weren't stalwart heroes, defender of freedom, liberties and Western traditions.  But they were much better than the Talebans in many other regards.  The US led coalition worked with them.  And many other scums.

Also, I seem to recall some US Presidents and a certain British Prime Minister gladly working with Augusto Pinochet.  And supporting the Apartheid regime of South Africa.

Sometimes, compromises are necessary.

I hate communists too.  I don't think they can be trusted.  Actually, I know they can't be trusted and they will backstab anyone they can.  But the other French parties need them for now.  It's called realpolitik.

[HVC]

One of the problems with being an authoritarian leader is eventually you start believing the bullshit that not only you say but is fed back to you. 

[DGuller]

I read an editorial by Anne Applebaum a couple of months ago that made perfect sense.  She basically wrote that Russia and China understand that their authoritarian regimes will never be safe if there are examples of functioning democracies for their citizens to see.  Therefore, just out of sense of the preservation of their own regimes, they have set out to destroy the functioning of all the democracies.  She also claimed that so far they were having good success, which I find hard to argue with.

Nothing can probably save Russia at this point. Putin has taken the situation from serious to hopeful to desperate to hopeless in just 20 years. Too bad he seems determined to fuck everybody else up, destroying Russia might have been too simple of a challenge.

I wish I shared your optimism, but I just don't see the basis for it.  The government of Russia has been punching way above its weight, and that's the only thing that matters in Russia.

[Valmy]

The government of Russia has been punching way above its weight, and that's the only thing that matters in Russia.

It obviously isn't the well being of Russians.

[Barrister]

I read an editorial by Anne Applebaum a couple of months ago that made perfect sense.  She basically wrote that Russia and China understand that their authoritarian regimes will never be safe if there are examples of functioning democracies for their citizens to see.  Therefore, just out of sense of the preservation of their own regimes, they have set out to destroy the functioning of all the democracies.  She also claimed that so far they were having good success, which I find hard to argue with.

It also explains Putin's hatred of Ukraine.

Every claim Putin makes against Ukraine's existence is equally as valid against Belarus - but Putin is quite happy to have Belarus exist because under Lukashenko it's just another dictatorship.  But the idea of a state where many people speak Russian and is a functioning democracy is intolerable - as it might give his own citizens ideas.

(I'm sure you know this - just making the argument for other people)

[crazy canuck]

And yet the Greens and PS are cavorting with the scum that is Melenchon: Putin-lover, Ukraine-hater, Hamas-friend. It says alot about those parties. If the meant what they said they wouldn't even be in an alliance with Melenchon. It wouldn't even be considered.
Yet here we are...

Churchill gladly worked with Staline to defeat Hitler.  I guess he was a of communism. 

Let's not get silly.  Churchill never gladly worked with Stalin. 

[Razgovory]

And yet the Greens and PS are cavorting with the scum that is Melenchon: Putin-lover, Ukraine-hater, Hamas-friend. It says alot about those parties. If the meant what they said they wouldn't even be in an alliance with Melenchon. It wouldn't even be considered.
Yet here we are...

Churchill gladly worked with Staline to defeat Hitler.  I guess he was a of communism.  Roosevelt too, an ardent supporter of communism.

During the Vietnam war, the US worked with a lat of unsavory individuals and organizations to fight the North and the Viet Kong, including drug traffickers.

And then we have Afghanistan.  The Northern Alliance weren't stalwart heroes, defender of freedom, liberties and Western traditions.  But they were much better than the Talebans in many other regards.  The US led coalition worked with them.  And many other scums.

Also, I seem to recall some US Presidents and a certain British Prime Minister gladly working with Augusto Pinochet.  And supporting the Apartheid regime of South Africa.

Sometimes, compromises are necessary.

I hate communists too.  I don't think they can be trusted.  Actually, I know they can't be trusted and they will backstab anyone they can.  But the other French parties need them for now.  It's called realpolitik.

Ah, so it's like the Popular Front in Spain, or the United Front in China.

[Valmy]

Ah, so it's like the Popular Front in Spain, or the United Front in China.

I mean it is literally called



as a reference to the 1930s.

[Duque de Bragança]

Lepen's sister has visited occupied Ukraine a number of times, so has a number of high ranking FN members and they're all in Russia's payroll like the high ranking GOP officers.

They're not our friends, they're not there to defend us or our values, they are there to sow dissent and distrust.

They started with the Jews and moved on with the Arabs and other immigrants.  Now they rail against Ukraine and Ukrainians.

Primo

- Marion-Maréchal Le Pen is Marine's niece, not her sister.

Secundo

- She is not in her aunt's party, having joined Zemmour's Reconquête.

- Tertio

She got booted out of Reconquête following her attempt to ally with her aunt's party (Rassemblement Familial ?) while being rejected by the RN. 

Quarto

- Neither of them are railing against Ukrainians.Both welcomed Ukrainian refugees (real ones they said unlike you know whom).
Railing against central and eastern Europeans is the province of Mélenchon, who not only is anti-Ukrainian but has said on record (2017 Presidential elections debate between candidates before the first round), that he would leave the Balts fend for themselves since "they have had troubles with the Russians for a thousand years" and that agreement with Russians about new borders is doable, if not necessary. Not to mention his analysis of the detached worked issue being caricatured to "Polish Plumbers" invasion. Guess who he will choose if there is trouble between Putin and the Poles...

[Josquius]

Come on. It's clear to all world figures on the issue that le pen was the risk for Ukraine.
No matter what Melanchons views may be he is overrated as a threat.
Plus key point that is being forgotten, melanchon hasn't won this election.