Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Duque de Bragança]

soumission still on track in other words...

La soumission est toujours en marche.  (pun intended with the former name of Macron's rump party).

[Grey Fox]

Islamo-leftists is just regular leftist in the Anglo-Saxon world.

[Sheilbh]

I mean still very difficult to govern etc etc. But republican front holds and the NPF win

[viper37]

soumission still on track in other words...

It's better than the pro-Putin party cutting off all aid to Ukraine.

Marine Le Pen had announced just 2 days ago that she would impose restrictions on Ukraine to their use of French weapons against Russia.

Macron is an idiot, as much as Justin Trudeau is.  "Post national country" only works when it suits them, as a political slogan.

[Valmy]

Maybe France needs a better standard bearer for laïcité than Marine Le Pen.

[Razgovory]

Does this Melon-chan guy hold to Josq's definition of Anti-zionism, the one where we just criticize Israel and demand they stop being dicks, which he tells me is the modern definition held by vast majority of Western Leftists, or, you know, the definition of Anti-Zionism that obviously nobody has where they just want Israel gone?

[Zoupa]

Melenchon is pretty clearly antisemitic. Or more precisely, I don't think he personally thinks jews are bad/evil/lower, but he promotes, endorses, plays up a whole lot of problematic folks in his party who are antisemitic.

[Jacob]

That's less than great.

I understand he's inclined to take some of Putin's propaganda at face value as well.

How likely is it that these results will weaken France's support for Ukraine in practical terms?

[Razgovory]

I did a little reading up on the guy, he described France's Jews as an arrogant minority that lectures the rest of us.  So not that great.  He also is bad on Ukraine and NATO on general.  Like really bad.  Worse than Trump bad.  According to this Guardian article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/27/jean-luc-melenchon-french-left-israel-france
He wrote in 2014  "Evidently Crimea is 'lost' for Nato. That's good news,"

[Sheilbh]

But it's not a presidential election of Melenchon v Le Pen (though I fear that may come).

It is a broad left coalition for the purpose of stopping the far right from winning. I believe the PS have almost as many seats at this stage as LFI (an impressive fightback) - in fact within the left coalition compared to NUPES last time the PS and Greens are the bigger winners. A coalition of everyone from the hard left to the centre-left is not the same as a single party of the far-right.

It remains to be seen if the NPF can work together in the Assembly beyond an electoral coalition to stop the RN. That's putting aside any attempt to try and find a coherent governing majority as there isn't an obvious one and I'm not sure how that'll work (this is exactly the sort of impossible parliament de Gaulle was trying to stop).

Incidentally on votes and mandates striking how well the RN did on vote share at 40% while the best either of their opponents managed was 25%. But 40% isn't enough in a run-off system.

[Sheilbh]

How likely is it that these results will weaken France's support for Ukraone in practical terms?

Foreign policy is the preserve of the President - paying for foreign policy is for the government. This was a tension Le Pen was indicating she intended to exploit.

The other bit of context that is relevant is that France is way outside of the European budget rules now (they've already needed two budgets this year I believe) - and after a pause for Covid and Ukraine the EU is starting to enforce those again. There is also less signs that it will be ignored as it was in the past, in Juncker's words "because it's France". I'd guess Macron will try to further Europeanise issues like Ukraine to protect them from domestic shocks and also, maybe, help a little bit in fiscal terms at home?

[Jacob]

Okay, so as long as Melenchon doesn't pull a move like what LePen suggested itcould still work out okay. Thanks

[HVC]

How likely is it that these results will weaken France's support for Ukraone in practical terms?

Foreign policy is the preserve of the President - paying for foreign policy is for the government. This was a tension Le Pen was indicating she intended to exploit.

The other bit of context that is relevant is that France is way outside of the European budget rules now (they've already needed two budgets this year I believe) - and after a pause for Covid and Ukraine the EU is starting to enforce those again. There is also less signs that it will be ignored as it was in the past, in Juncker's words "because it's France". I'd guess Macron will try to further Europeanise issues like Ukraine to protect them from domestic shocks and also, maybe, help a little bit in fiscal terms at home?

State Financial troubles, a growing divide and animosity between left and right? What could possibly go wrong in France

[Grey Fox]

Mélenchon is the guy that loves Putin for some reason. LePen is the gal that Putin bought. 

Choose your evil.

[viper37]

Maybe France needs a better standard bearer for laïcité than Marine Le Pen.

If only she was for laïcité.  She's just Richelieu in new clothes.