Poll
Question:
Well? Should she?
Option 1: Absolutely! Teaching manners to cads is far more important than her potential career.
Option 2: No way! Keeping your head down and your nose clean is the way to go through life!
Option 3: Don't know what you're talking about and/or frankly don't care.
Option 4: Wheee! A poll!!
Berk says I should, or I'm just a big baby. MiM and CC say just get on with things. What do the rest of you say?
I think you should flash one of the young 'uns those blue ribbon milk jugs, show 'em what they look like in real life.
No, not yet. I always see going to a third party to complain as a nuclear option, as it can permanently damage the relationship with the person being tattled on.
I don't see the need to go all official about it :hmm:
If you are offended then tell him that you are offended, no need to drag the poor old dinosaur into a world of pain :P
No. Give him the chance to fix it first.
And Seedy you stole my idea.
Depends. Has he expressed counter-revolutionary sentiments?
e) Have Max go with you to be the Helicopter parent. Demand an "A" for the course.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 17, 2013, 06:14:56 PM
e) Have Max go with you to be the Helicopter parent. Demand an "A" for the course.
:lol:
Do you think you can take him in a fight? If you beat the shit out him he's unlikely to report you.
Other, go to the next class as usual and if there are no problems move on. If it continues to be an issue you can then reasonably decide between a) talking to him about it or b) reporting him to some higher authority.
I'm not a big fan of live and let live, but I'm also not a big fan of making mountains out of molehills, which is what this would be if it's a one time thing.
What Otto said.
Copy the account you wrote to some other file (so if you need to use it in the future, you don't have to involve languish). Go to the next class or three and decide if it's still an issue. If so, decide then whether it's worth it.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on January 17, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Other, go to the next class as usual and if there are no problems move on. If it continues to be an issue you can then reasonably decide between a) talking to him about it or b) reporting him to some higher authority.
I'm not a big fan of live and let live, but I'm also not a big fan of making mountains out of molehills, which is what this would be if it's a one time thing.
I think there is some sense in this. If it gets worse then you probably need to do something about it because it will likely have an adverse affect on you - besides the university administrators will be horrified but it doesnt sound like you are there yet.
What, why, what did I miss? :huh:
I like the beating him up solution. You should seriously consider this.
I gave you my advice in the other thread; basically, what Richard Hakluyt said.
However, Seedy's suggestion is not without merit. I think you should practice first before trying it in class though, so make a video of yourself flashing your tits and post it for us so we can give you some critiques and pointers before you do it live.
Heh, "pointers".
Droopers.
Er, having read through the other thread, unless I missed something (like the part where the prof asked you to stay after class, groped you, took out his dick and asked you to suck it) then no, I'd sooner eat that tarantula before bitching to the higher admin that the prof is rather eccentric and socially awkward.
I'm actually surprised the thought even crossed your mind, you've always struck me as a tough broad.
You attention whorin' us Meri? Stop it. Marti has that shit on lockdown.
She's publicly shaming berk :P
Anyone, I voted the ignore it option.
No. You have more important things to worry about.
From the thread it doesnt seem like he has quite crossed the line into being intolerable. His sexism is more just in the old man vein and it doesn:t seem to be directly hindering you too much.
Seems to be something for the evaluation forms rather than kicking up a fuss about.
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Quote from: Tyr on January 17, 2013, 11:07:39 PM
From the thread it doesnt seem like he has quite crossed the line into being intolerable. His sexism is more just in the old man vein and it doesn:t seem to be directly hindering you too much.
Seems to be something for the evaluation forms rather than kicking up a fuss about.
Careful Tyr, if you don't agree this is a crisis, you may get the old "Fuck you" treatment.
Sadly, it is directly hindering Meri greatly - she was publicly "humiliated" and nearly in tears, and was considering not even returning to the class.
Sounds pretty hindering to me.
QuoteAbsolutely! Teaching manners to cads is far more important than her potential career.
Does anyone really believe that Meri talking to or even reporting her entry level computer programming teacher for saying in public "It's when we get to the programming that it's going to be hard because you have to focus on one small thing at a time, and women have a hard time with that. But that's okay, because you're going to have it so much easier with the social stuff, like now."
Can possibly have any effect on her career prospects? Or even her scholastic prospects?
I am guessing any university in the US today is going to fall all over themselves to make sure there cannot be any possible repercussions once a comment like that is reported and substantiated by the other students in the class.
Hell, for that matter, she could probably sue them for a lot more than she can make as a programmer if there were.
Nah his being a jerk is his problem. Best to focus on yours, particularly if this is the last time he does something like this.
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
I think we're getting a bit less worked up about it, but though :P
What happened?
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2013, 12:19:46 AM
What happened?
Prof was socially awkward to Meri. She recounted it in another thread. Berkut told her she was being silly and emotional and then got upset when Meri told him to fuck off.
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 12:43:35 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2013, 12:19:46 AM
What happened?
Prof was socially awkward to Meri. She recounted it in another thread. Berkut told her she was being silly and emotional and then got upset when Meri told him to fuck off.
That is accurate except for the part where Berkut told her she was being silly or emotional. Didn't say either of those things.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 01:19:36 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 12:43:35 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2013, 12:19:46 AM
What happened?
Prof was socially awkward to Meri. She recounted it in another thread. Berkut told her she was being silly and emotional and then got upset when Meri told him to fuck off.
That is accurate except for the part where Berkut told her she was being silly or emotional. Didn't say either of those things.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 18, 2013, 01:41:38 AMDon't let facts get in the way of a good story.
Alright, he didn't use the words "silly" and "emotional".
He just tried to convince her that she was over-reacting and over-generalizing [post 70];
that what she described was not a big deal and that it was unbelievable that she felt humiliated (framed as a case against her, as if she was the one who somehow had to be found guilty or innocent) [post 74];
he posited that the only reasonable thing to do
if Meri's account was accurate would be to file an official complaint against the prof (hence this thread) [posts 90 and 96];
and then he went on to tell her that she's part of the problem if she didn't deal with the situation (one with which he has no personal experience even as an observer, as per post 90) the way he instructed her, and that if she did not make that complaint then she has no right to complain [post 102];
that if she didn't complain the way he instructed her to then he had little sympathy for her, and it was in fact proof that the situation wasn't a big deal to her - contrary to Meri's own statements [post 112];
then he closes off by dismissing her initial claim that this situation is an illustration of dynamics underlying the lack of women in CS [post 129].
In summary: he told her she was over-reacting, that her response was invalid, that she dealt with it wrong, he instructed her how to deal with the situation and took her reluctance to follow his instructions as further proof of the invalidity of her experience; he dismissed each of the particulars of her experience, as well as the conclusion she drew.
So while he didn't use the words "silly" or "emotional", they weren't exactly subtext either.
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 12:43:35 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2013, 12:19:46 AM
What happened?
Prof was socially awkward to Meri. She recounted it in another thread. Berkut told her she was being silly and emotional and then got upset when Meri told him to fuck off.
Socially awkward? What he make a pass?
I haven't been following the thread lately - has he done anything new or is this about the stuff you wrote in your opening post?
That is some rather slanted view of my posts. I, of course, think it is a gross and even dishonest mus-characterization of nearly everything I said.
But like the man said, why let facts get in the way of a good story?
Quote from: Legbiter on January 17, 2013, 09:35:44 PM
Er, having read through the other thread, unless I missed something (like the part where the prof asked you to stay after class, groped you, took out his dick and asked you to suck it) then no, I'd sooner eat that tarantula before bitching to the higher admin that the prof is rather eccentric and socially awkward.
I'm actually surprised the thought even crossed your mind, you've always struck me as a tough broad.
You attention whorin' us Meri? Stop it. Marti has that shit on lockdown.
Hell, if this is just about the stuff Meri wrote about in her opening post, then the mere idea of reporting him just for that is ridiculous.
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 02:12:24 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 18, 2013, 01:41:38 AMDon't let facts get in the way of a good story.
Alright, he didn't use the words "silly" and "emotional".
He just tried to convince her that she was over-reacting and over-generalizing [post 70];
that what she described was not a big deal and that it was unbelievable that she felt humiliated (framed as a case against her, as if she was the one who somehow had to be found guilty or innocent) [post 74];
he posited that the only reasonable thing to do if Meri's account was accurate would be to file an official complaint against the prof (hence this thread) [posts 90 and 96];
and then he went on to tell her that she's part of the problem if she didn't deal with the situation (one with which he has no personal experience even as an observer, as per post 90) the way he instructed her, and that if she did not make that complaint then she has no right to complain [post 102];
that if she didn't complain the way he instructed her to then he had little sympathy for her, and it was in fact proof that the situation wasn't a big deal to her - contrary to Meri's own statements [post 112];
then he closes off by dismissing her initial claim that this situation is an illustration of dynamics underlying the lack of women in CS [post 129].
In summary: he told her she was over-reacting, that her response was invalid, that she dealt with it wrong, he instructed her how to deal with the situation and took her reluctance to follow his instructions as further proof of the invalidity of her experience; he dismissed each of the particulars of her experience, as well as the conclusion she drew.
So while he didn't use the words "silly" or "emotional", they weren't exactly subtext either.
This seems to make sense.
If it's just an anecdote of an awkward event that is more funny (even funny-sad) than disturbing, then reporting it would be silly, but then it would be silly to dwell over it or cry over it.
If it is something that has shaken Meri to the core and was disturbing and uncomfortable to her, then surely we are not getting the whole story (which is possible, given that the written medium makes it more difficult to describe the situation when it comes to nuances and emotions), then she should report.
Is this what Berkut said? If so, I agree with him.
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2013, 02:14:34 AMSocially awkward? What he make a pass?
Just read the first post in the thread :lol:
http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,9148.0.html
do not report.
Don't go over his head, tell him adult to adult you don't find his behaviour acceptable. He's developed a teaching style that works for a class full of early-twenties males and he probably doesn't realise he's upset you, and won't unless you tell him. Don't just say what he's done wrong, tell him explicitly what change you'd like to see from him.
not sure if its a big deal anyway. soon the class will be over and you never see this guy again in your life but if we you talk to him (or his supervisor) you make it VERY hard on yourself to finish the class properly, much-much worse than the effort it takes to deal with his idiocy with a poker face.
Quote from: Brazen on January 18, 2013, 05:44:50 AM
Don't go over his head, tell him adult to adult you don't find his behaviour acceptable. He's developed a teaching style that works for a class full of early-twenties males and he probably doesn't realise he's upset you, and won't unless you tell him. Don't just say what he's done wrong, tell him explicitly what change you'd like to see from him.
Bingo. The other Languish female gets it just right in one try.
Brazen's advice is sensible but only if the situation repeats itself. If it was just a one-time awkward first lesson/break-the-ice type of situation, then even approaching the professor about it would be a great exaggeration that would simply reinforce his preconceived notion that women are over-sensitive crazies.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 07:54:21 AM
Brazen's advice is sensible but only if the situation repeats itself. If it was just a one-time awkward first lesson/break-the-ice type of situation, then even approaching the professor about it would be a great exaggeration that would simply reinforce his preconceived notion that women are over-sensitive crazies.
I don't agree - his comments were well over the line. A simple discussion between adults would be entirely appropriate, especially given the extremely upsetting situation it put Meri in already. She nearly dropped the class as a result of it happening the first time, so waiting to see if it happens again is not necessarily the right move for her, IMO.
Doing nothing unless it happens again would be appropriate as well.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 07:27:27 AM
Quote from: Brazen on January 18, 2013, 05:44:50 AM
Don't go over his head, tell him adult to adult you don't find his behaviour acceptable. He's developed a teaching style that works for a class full of early-twenties males and he probably doesn't realise he's upset you, and won't unless you tell him. Don't just say what he's done wrong, tell him explicitly what change you'd like to see from him.
Bingo. The other Languish female gets it just right in one try.
Yay! At least one woman wins Berkut's seal of approval! Be sure to get that framed, B. :thumbsup:
My seal of approval is more valuable.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 07:54:21 AM
Brazen's advice is sensible but only if the situation repeats itself. If it was just a one-time awkward first lesson/break-the-ice type of situation, then even approaching the professor about it would be a great exaggeration that would simply reinforce his preconceived notion that women are over-sensitive crazies.
Frankly who cares if it reinforces his preconcieved notions. I just don't want my name associated with any negative feelings when it comes to the dude grading my papers. But basically I agree. Give this guy a pass this one time, if he keeps doing it then you may need to very tactfully bring it up to him in private.
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2013, 09:24:47 AM
Frankly who cares if it reinforces his preconcieved notions. I just don't want my name associated with any negative feelings when it comes to the dude grading my papers. But basically I agree. Give this guy a pass this one time, if he keeps doing it then you may need to very tactfully bring it up to him in private.
Well said, Valmy. I haven't decided what I'll do yet. I may approach him sooner rather than later, or I may approach him only if there's a repeat performance.
I'm leaning toward approaching him in his office before the next class and simply saying that while I appreciate his desire to be inclusive, I would rather he stopped referring to the fact that I'm a woman. My goal is to learn the material, do my work well, and move on to the next level with as little fuss and muss as possible, and continuing to bring up the (often incorrect) stereotypes of men and womn make that difficult. Then I'll ask him to explain some random thing in the text book, smile, and tell him that I'll see him in class.
It's the approach that I've been favoring almost since day-one, the ridiculous diatribes from others here notwithstanding. Given my experiences in the past regarding socially awkward people, I considered a note rather than face-to-face since that seemed to make them more comfortable. However, context and subtle expressions are often lost with the written word, and I don't wish to antagonize the guy (see Valmy's post above).
You are an adult who is mature - much more so than the kids in the class. The professor is also nominally an adult. Speak to him at office hours like an adult, while realizing he is probably also a bit of a wonk too. Continue after this, if the discussion is positive to that point (if not, you are on your own), with what you want to get out of the class and where you are heading with such course work.
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
You are an adult who is mature - much more so than the kids in the class. The professor is also nominally an adult. Speak to him at office hours like an adult, while realizing he is probably also a bit of a wonk too. Continue after this, if the discussion is positive to that point (if not, you are on your own), with what you want to get out of the class and where you are heading with such course work.
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
So.. pretty much what I said I was leaning toward doing. Got it. Thanks for reinforcing that decision, as I was honestly waiting to hear from you. :hug:
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
:lol:
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
Office hours seemed strange. They were always like come on down whenever you feel like - and it was like yeah but what am I going to say?
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
Office hours seemed strange. They were always like come on down whenever you feel like - and it was like yeah but what am I going to say?
They're meant for people who are having problems with the work or other concerns about the class. In other words, for situations like this.
And for people who want to earn a little extra credit. :whistle:
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 10:13:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
Office hours seemed strange. They were always like come on down whenever you feel like - and it was like yeah but what am I going to say?
They're meant for people who are having problems with the work or other concerns about the class. In other words, for situations like this.
I used them once or twice for that (in CS no less) but I really always thought they'd be good for networking with faculty. Unfortunately, I had nothing to say for myself. :blush:
The insularity of the professor's life are both a comfort to those who don't adjust well and a reinforcement to those tendencies to be weird. It happens in all the areas, and while not every professor is weird, a good many are and some are really weird. Mostly they mean no harm, they just have no clue.
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
He will probably be weirded out that someone is coming to his office hours at all, this will give you the decisive octagon advantage.
Office hours seemed strange. They were always like come on down whenever you feel like - and it was like yeah but what am I going to say?
Yeah, that was how I viewed it up until my senior year (and a half). The ones in my class that were always meeting with the professor seemed like nerds or suckups or whatever. But I realized late in the game the value of taking advantage of office hours, if for no other reason to establish a positive rapport with the prof.
Once I started making use of their office hours, what I'd often do is meet with them the first week or two of the term and tell them what I wanted to get from the class, both in terms of what I was specifically interested to learn about and my goal in terms of final grade. Not necessarily asking for better grades per se, but sort of giving them a heads up that I'd be "bugging" them from time to time to make sure I was on the right track and to explore any options for extra credit. I wouldn't over-do it, but I'd try to meet with them maybe 4 or more times throughout the semester.
They always seemed to react positively to that. Just wish I had started doing it sooner-- my GPA definitely would've benefited from it.
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 11:23:45 AM
Not necessarily asking for better grades per se, but sort of giving them a heads up that I'd be "bugging" them from time to time to make sure I was on the right track and to explore any options for extra credit.
:perv: ?
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 11:28:46 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 11:23:45 AM
Not necessarily asking for better grades per se, but sort of giving them a heads up that I'd be "bugging" them from time to time to make sure I was on the right track and to explore any options for extra credit.
:perv: ?
I once had an old lady Spanish professor perv on me during her office hours. Weird experience.
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 11:05:33 AM
The insularity of the professor's life are both a comfort to those who don't adjust well and a reinforcement to those tendencies to be weird. It happens in all the areas, and while not every professor is weird, a good many are and some are really weird. Mostly they mean no harm, they just have no clue.
That's pretty much what I imagine is the situation here.
If your tolerance for ackward nerds unintentional insults is low, you might not be best positioned on the software field :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 11:32:33 AM
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 11:28:46 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 11:23:45 AM
Not necessarily asking for better grades per se, but sort of giving them a heads up that I'd be "bugging" them from time to time to make sure I was on the right track and to explore any options for extra credit.
:perv: ?
I once had an old lady Spanish professor perv on me during her office hours. Weird experience.
Is this how you met your wife?
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Its not that its "not really that bad". Its that Meri should not play the martyr especially when her martyrdom wont do a damn thing. Its going to be a long time before CS catches up the the rest of the world in terms of how females are treated. Especially if your attitude is any indication of the norm within that industry. ;)
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2013, 11:44:01 AM
Is this how you met your wife?
Can't imagine how old that gal would be now :yuk:
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2013, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Its not that its "not really that bad". Its that Meri should not play the martyr especially when her martyrdom wont do a damn thing. Its going to be a long time before CS catches up the the rest of the world in terms of how females are treated. Especially if your attitude is any indication of the norm within that industry. ;)
His attitude is, "If you think his behaviour was a big deal, do something about it", which would seem to not be something that is counterproductive when it comes to change.
And as far as catching up to the rest of the world is concern, I doubt that her professor is conducting female genital multilation or female infanticide.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2013, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Its not that its "not really that bad". Its that Meri should not play the martyr especially when her martyrdom wont do a damn thing. Its going to be a long time before CS catches up the the rest of the world in terms of how females are treated. Especially if your attitude is any indication of the norm within that industry. ;)
So you think saying something about someone who humiliated her, nearly brought her to tears, and caused her to consider not returning to class would be "martyrdom"?
I think the one who has some outdated notions about a woman's ability to take care of herself (especially Meri) is certainly not me.
I am glad Meri is, after much angst and drama, taking what has exactly been my advice all along.
Quote from: dps on January 18, 2013, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2013, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Its not that its "not really that bad". Its that Meri should not play the martyr especially when her martyrdom wont do a damn thing. Its going to be a long time before CS catches up the the rest of the world in terms of how females are treated. Especially if your attitude is any indication of the norm within that industry. ;)
His attitude is, "If you think his behaviour was a big deal, do something about it", which would seem to not be something that is counterproductive when it comes to change.
And as far as catching up to the rest of the world is concern, I doubt that her professor is conducting female genital multilation or female infanticide.
Yeah, I am clearly some kind of misogynist because I think people should not tolerate someone gender typecasting them.
What an asshole I am.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fsmiley-basic%2Fpopcorn.gif&hash=6ad11f62e2c1a61fa5215dcce03ae5267d34dee3) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:23:22 PMWhat an asshole I am.
If you want to change that, I recommend that you 1) work on your listening skills; and 2) try to steer discussions away from right-vs-wrong adversarial debates.
Of course, that's only
if you care :)
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2013, 12:28:43 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fsmiley-basic%2Fpopcorn.gif&hash=6ad11f62e2c1a61fa5215dcce03ae5267d34dee3) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F33572283.jpg&hash=ec34966b6875190ec2e92cd626caab93c1650c88)
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:22:22 PM
I am glad Meri is, after much angst and drama, taking what has exactly been my advice all along.
If that was your advice you communicated it very poorly. Jacob's analysis is pretty much how you came across, whatever the intent.
Quote from: dps on January 18, 2013, 12:15:40 PM
And as far as catching up to the rest of the world is concern, I doubt that her professor is conducting female genital multilation or female infanticide.
That is where you draw the line on unacceptable behaviour?
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: dps on January 18, 2013, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2013, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Its not that its "not really that bad". Its that Meri should not play the martyr especially when her martyrdom wont do a damn thing. Its going to be a long time before CS catches up the the rest of the world in terms of how females are treated. Especially if your attitude is any indication of the norm within that industry. ;)
His attitude is, "If you think his behaviour was a big deal, do something about it", which would seem to not be something that is counterproductive when it comes to change.
And as far as catching up to the rest of the world is concern, I doubt that her professor is conducting female genital multilation or female infanticide.
Yeah, I am clearly some kind of misogynist because I think people should not tolerate someone gender typecasting them.
What an asshole I am.
If you say so.
But really you come across as someone that doesnt quite get it - which was essentially my point.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2013, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: dps on January 18, 2013, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2013, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 17, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
What is funny about this is that most people are saying EXACTLY what I said.
Yes, you should do something about it. Or alternatively, do nothing about it, in which case it must not really be all that bad.
Its not that its "not really that bad". Its that Meri should not play the martyr especially when her martyrdom wont do a damn thing. Its going to be a long time before CS catches up the the rest of the world in terms of how females are treated. Especially if your attitude is any indication of the norm within that industry. ;)
His attitude is, "If you think his behaviour was a big deal, do something about it", which would seem to not be something that is counterproductive when it comes to change.
And as far as catching up to the rest of the world is concern, I doubt that her professor is conducting female genital multilation or female infanticide.
Yeah, I am clearly some kind of misogynist because I think people should not tolerate someone gender typecasting them.
What an asshole I am.
If you say so.
But really you come across as someone that doesnt quite get it - which was essentially my point.
:yes:
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 18, 2013, 09:23:44 AM
My seal of approval is more valuable.
My seal of approval is wonderful. :wub:
Can it balance a ball on its nose?
Two. :)
:XD:
Quote from: PDH on January 18, 2013, 11:05:33 AM
The insularity of the professor's life are both a comfort to those who don't adjust well and a reinforcement to those tendencies to be weird. It happens in all the areas, and while not every professor is weird, a good many are and some are really weird. Mostly they mean no harm, they just have no clue.
I always enjoyed watching them on camera, pushing the doors that had "PULL" signs on them.
HEY NOW
For some reason, a lot of instructors from Asia seem to think every door is automatic. They just stand in front of them, waiting to open. Funniest damned thing. They'll stand there forever until they see someone walk through, and then it clicks. ITS A MANUAL DOOR ROR
I've found tirez and poussez very easy to understand in France. :D
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:23:22 PMWhat an asshole I am.
If you want to change that, I recommend that you 1) work on your listening skills; and 2) try to steer discussions away from right-vs-wrong adversarial debates.
Of course, that's only if you care :)
I certainly don't care to make sure I come across as the white knight there to rescue the damsel in distress, so I doubt I will ever get the Jacob Seal of Approval.
It is amusing though that you demand that I listen better immediately after you admittedly lie about my posts in order to make certain you can claim I said much that I did not - adversarial indeed.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 03:03:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:23:22 PMWhat an asshole I am.
If you want to change that, I recommend that you 1) work on your listening skills; and 2) try to steer discussions away from right-vs-wrong adversarial debates.
Of course, that's only if you care :)
I certainly don't care to make sure I come across as the white knight there to rescue the damsel in distress, so I doubt I will ever get the Jacob Seal of Approval.
It is amusing though that you demand that I listen better immediately after you admittedly lie about my posts in order to make certain you can claim I said much that I did not - adversarial indeed.
First, how condescending that if someone disagrees with you (and inadvertantly agrees with me in the process) they must be a white knight trying to rescue me. Maybe they just, you know, disagree with you.
And second, what part did he lie about? It looked pretty spot on to me. I'd love to know where he mis-represented you.
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 03:28:49 PM
First, how condescending that if someone disagrees with you (and inadvertantly agrees with me in the process) they must be a white knight trying to rescue me. Maybe they just, you know, disagree with you.
Yeah, but that is Jake's shtick, though.
I'm out of popcorn. :(
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
Office hours seemed strange. They were always like come on down whenever you feel like - and it was like yeah but what am I going to say?
I used to go to one of my history professor's office hours and ask him random questions that weren't really part of the class material but stuff I knew he'd know something about. One time we had an hour long discussion about when exactly Greek paganism went extinct. Good times.
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 03:28:49 PM
First, how condescending that if someone disagrees with you (and inadvertantly agrees with me in the process) they must be a white knight trying to rescue me. Maybe they just, you know, disagree with you.
Yeah, but that is Jake's shtick, though.
That whole "white knight" crap is thrown out whenever someone agrees with me and says so. It can't just be that they agree with me. No, it's "going to the girlie-girl's defense as if she needs you har har". :rolleyes:
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 03:28:49 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 03:03:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 12:23:22 PMWhat an asshole I am.
If you want to change that, I recommend that you 1) work on your listening skills; and 2) try to steer discussions away from right-vs-wrong adversarial debates.
Of course, that's only if you care :)
I certainly don't care to make sure I come across as the white knight there to rescue the damsel in distress, so I doubt I will ever get the Jacob Seal of Approval.
It is amusing though that you demand that I listen better immediately after you admittedly lie about my posts in order to make certain you can claim I said much that I did not - adversarial indeed.
First, how condescending that if someone disagrees with you (and inadvertantly agrees with me in the process) they must be a white knight trying to rescue me. Maybe they just, you know, disagree with you.
Nothing to do with disagreeing with me and everything to do with Jake's modus operandi. His entire bit where he came in and blatnatly lied about what I said, then clearly went out of his way to completely mis0characterize my point in order to get you to act exactly the way you are acting right now.
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And second, what part did he lie about? It looked pretty spot on to me. I'd love to know where he mis-represented you.
He said I said you were silly and over-emotional. I never said either of those things.
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
That whole "white knight" crap is thrown out whenever someone agrees with me and says so. It can't just be that they agree with me. No, it's "going to the girlie-girl's defense as if she needs you har har". :rolleyes:
Wait a minute, there. I never get that label when I agree with you :contract:
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 03:28:49 PM
First, how condescending that if someone disagrees with you (and inadvertantly agrees with me in the process) they must be a white knight trying to rescue me. Maybe they just, you know, disagree with you.
Yeah, but that is Jake's shtick, though.
That whole "white knight" crap is thrown out whenever someone agrees with me and says so. It can't just be that they agree with me. No, it's "going to the girlie-girl's defense as if she needs you har har". :rolleyes:
No, I've never once said it before...except to Jacob when he does this.
I agree with you plenty, and I disagree with you sometimes. I am not afraid to say so, although I am rather dissapointed that you cannot take me not agreeing with you without letting it become personal. That is unfortnate, but it isn't going to change how I respond to what I see.
What is funny about Jake is his willingness to become so admanat about what an asshole someone is for not agreeing with you in particular. I don't agree with lots of people, but I don't see Jake willing to go to the lengths of flat out lying about what they say to defend anyone else.
But whatever, that is his thing. He loves being seen as the sensitive, understanding guy in the cruel world of jerks. We all have our little schticks.
For what it's worth, I find Berkut's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
Ouch.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
His attitude is actually what I take issue with. I mostly agree with his opinion.
Quote from: Caliga on January 18, 2013, 03:56:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
Office hours seemed strange. They were always like come on down whenever you feel like - and it was like yeah but what am I going to say?
I used to go to one of my history professor's office hours and ask him random questions that weren't really part of the class material but stuff I knew he'd know something about. One time we had an hour long discussion about when exactly Greek paganism went extinct. Good times.
The best way to squeeze better marks out of a prof is not to ask for better marks or stuff to do for extra credit, but to display interest in the stuff that they find interesting.
The best way to do that is actually to be interested in it.
The best way to do that, is choose profs who do stuff you find interesting ... not necessarily the courses they are required to teach. ;) These days, what with the Internet and all, doing a bot of research along those lines ought to be easy.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
But whatever, that is his thing. He loves being seen as the sensitive, understanding guy in the cruel world of jerks. We all have our little schticks.
Well, it gets him laid.
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
His attitude is actually what I take issue with. I mostly agree with his opinion.
I like his attitude. He keeps it real.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
But whatever, that is his thing. He loves being seen as the sensitive, understanding guy in the cruel world of jerks. We all have our little schticks.
Well, it gets him laid.
Which is why heterosexuality is a dysfunction.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
Nothing to do with disagreeing with me and everything to do with Jake's modus operandi. His entire bit where he came in and blatnatly lied about what I said, then clearly went out of his way to completely mis0characterize my point in order to get you to act exactly the way you are acting right now.
:huh:
What the hell are you talking about? His post pretty much just summed up what I perceived from your posts while I read them. If he's mischaracterizing you, then you did a piss-poor job of explaining what you really meant. Because I gotta' tell you, Berk, I read everything you said, and I walked away with the exact same impression as Jake. Not because he manipulated me (thanks for thinking so highly of my own ability to read and interpret), but because it's how you presented yourself.
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He said I said you were silly and over-emotional. I never said either of those things.
You implied both. No, the words themselves were not said, but everything that you said and every way that you said it implied that very thing. If you don't think that I was being silly and over-emotional, then again, you had a piss-poor way of communicating what you actually thought. It's pretty hard to read your posts to mean anything other than "You're being silly and over-emotional".
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkut's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
Kiss of Death Berkie :console:
Quote from: katmai on January 18, 2013, 04:11:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkut's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
Kiss of Death Berkie :console:
Well I'm drunk so it could be the reverse. I do find Jacob to be one of the most disingenous and despicable people on this board, though. Hell, I'd prefer derspiess's idiocy.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:09:05 PM
I like his attitude. He keeps it real.
There's keeping it real & stating your opinion, and then there's launching a crusade and spending way too much time talking about something. He tends toward the latter sometimes.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 03:03:00 PMI certainly don't care to make sure I come across as the white knight there to rescue the damsel in distress, so I doubt I will ever get the Jacob Seal of Approval.
It is amusing though that you demand that I listen better immediately after you admittedly lie about my posts in order to make certain you can claim I said much that I did not - adversarial indeed.
:lmfao:
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:13:37 PM
Well I'm drunk so it could be the reverse.
Do you hit on women when you're drunk?
QuoteI do find Jacob to be one of the most disingenous and despicable people on this board, though. Hell, I'd prefer derspiess's idiocy.
:punk:
Yeah, you are drunk.
Nah, women are gross. :yuk:
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 04:13:52 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:09:05 PM
I like his attitude. He keeps it real.
There's keeping it real & stating your opinion, and then there's launching a crusade and spending way too much time talking about something. He tends toward the latter sometimes.
Meh. Berkut is the straight me. He is like a dog who got his bone when a topic attracts his attention but I like this about him. The faux cool people like Jacob are the ones who make me sick.
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
His attitude is actually what I take issue with. I mostly agree with his opinion.
Berkut is Berkut. His manner doesn't change. :berkut:
I don't see myself why all the drama. He wasn't trying to be offensive, until the torches-and-pitchforks mob came after him, far as I can see. The mob is making him out like he's some kind of woman-hatiing meanie, when he's just being his usual somewhat prickly self, same as he is on every topic. Expecting him to change and be all sugardrops and rainbows? That's just not his style.
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
His attitude is actually what I take issue with. I mostly agree with his opinion.
Berkut is Berkut. His manner doesn't change. :berkut:
I don't see myself why all the drama. He wasn't trying to be offensive, until the torches-and-pitchforks mob came after him, far as I can see. The mob is making him out like he's some kind of woman-hatiing meanie, when he's just being his usual somewhat prickly self, same as he is on every topic. Expecting him to change and be all sugardrops and rainbows? That's just not his style.
Pretty much. But attacking people like Berkut is how assholes score the poon. It's in their blood.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
I agree with you plenty, and I disagree with you sometimes. I am not afraid to say so, although I am rather dissapointed that you cannot take me not agreeing with you without letting it become personal. That is unfortnate, but it isn't going to change how I respond to what I see.
You aren't just "not afraid to say so", you're willing to take it to the next level and crusade (to use derspeiss's term) and bully until we agree with you. There is no "difference of opinion" with you. There's your way or "YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST TOO CAUGHT UP IN YOUR OWN WAY OF THINKING !!" Only with more spelling errors.
Every post you made in that thread was meant to belittle me because you didn't think it was that bad. And when I said that, yes, it was that bad TO ME, you then changed tactic to say, "Then you have no choice IF it was that bad but to do something. If you don't, the ONLY reason you wouldn't would be because it wasn't that bad."
I'm not sure what world you live in, but in mine, it's not all black and white. There are a whole lot of reasons why people do or don't do things, and rarely does it all boil down to one.
And by the way, I didn't take it personally. What I did do, however, was decide to disengage discussing it with you because I got tired of you being an asshole. You don't get to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel and what I should or shouldn't do based on what you think I should feel. That's not an "opinion"; that's being a dick.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:20:20 PM
Pretty much. But attacking people like Berkut is how assholes score the poon. It's in their blood.
:hmm: There have to be more steps to it than that.
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2013, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:20:20 PM
Pretty much. But attacking people like Berkut is how assholes score the poon. It's in their blood.
:hmm: There have to be more steps to it than that.
Doesn't always work, but from what I've observed if you do it often enough it will work at some point. I understand the temptation to do it, but never could sacrifice that much dignity.
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
I agree with you plenty, and I disagree with you sometimes. I am not afraid to say so, although I am rather dissapointed that you cannot take me not agreeing with you without letting it become personal. That is unfortnate, but it isn't going to change how I respond to what I see.
You aren't just "not afraid to say so", you're willing to take it to the next level and crusade (to use derspeiss's term) and bully until we agree with you. There is no "difference of opinion" with you. There's your way or "YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST TOO CAUGHT UP IN YOUR OWN WAY OF THINKING !!" Only with more spelling errors.
Every post you made in that thread was meant to belittle me because you didn't think it was that bad. And when I said that, yes, it was that bad TO ME, you then changed tactic to say, "Then you have no choice IF it was that bad but to do something. If you don't, the ONLY reason you wouldn't would be because it wasn't that bad."
I'm not sure what world you live in, but in mine, it's not all black and white. There are a whole lot of reasons why people do or don't do things, and rarely does it all boil down to one.
And by the way, I didn't take it personally. What I did do, however, was decide to disengage discussing it with you because I got tired of you being an asshole. You don't get to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel and what I should or shouldn't do based on what you think I should feel. That's not an "opinion"; that's being a dick.
Meh, I disagree. Berkut is being a guy. People who attacked him are being faggots* (i.e. garbon and/or Canadians).
*I don't use the term to mean a slur for gays, but a certain type of a guy who attacks a guy-style-logic in order to score some poon and/or be gender-progressive.
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Berkut is Berkut. His manner doesn't change. :berkut:
I don't see myself why all the drama. He wasn't trying to be offensive, until the torches-and-pitchforks mob came after him, far as I can see. The mob is making him out like he's some kind of woman-hatiing meanie, when he's just being his usual somewhat prickly self, same as he is on every topic. Expecting him to change and be all sugardrops and rainbows? That's just not his style.
One doesn't have to be sugardrops and rainbows to not be a dick.
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 04:31:10 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Berkut is Berkut. His manner doesn't change. :berkut:
I don't see myself why all the drama. He wasn't trying to be offensive, until the torches-and-pitchforks mob came after him, far as I can see. The mob is making him out like he's some kind of woman-hatiing meanie, when he's just being his usual somewhat prickly self, same as he is on every topic. Expecting him to change and be all sugardrops and rainbows? That's just not his style.
One doesn't have to be sugardrops and rainbows to not be a dick.
Conversely, one doesn't have to be a gutless faggot to make sense.
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 04:10:50 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
Nothing to do with disagreeing with me and everything to do with Jake's modus operandi. His entire bit where he came in and blatnatly lied about what I said, then clearly went out of his way to completely mis0characterize my point in order to get you to act exactly the way you are acting right now.
:huh:
What the hell are you talking about? His post pretty much just summed up what I perceived from your posts while I read them. If he's mischaracterizing you, then you did a piss-poor job of explaining what you really meant. Because I gotta' tell you, Berk, I read everything you said, and I walked away with the exact same impression as Jake. Not because he manipulated me (thanks for thinking so highly of my own ability to read and interpret), but because it's how you presented yourself.
No, I did not. I stated what I thought, and you took exception. Jake then regurgitated what you wanted to hear, because he wants to be seen as the guy defending poor, defenseless Meri from mean nasty Berkut.
As far as my posts, I am perfectly happy letting them speak for themselves. When someone like Jake comes along, says I said something I did not, then spends a few hundred words telling me how what I said meant something entirely different from what I actually said, it really makes no diffrence to me that the person he is trying to defend turns around and says ZOMG THAT IS JUST WHAT I THOUGHT YOU SAID TOO! Of *course* that is the case - he is telling you precisely what you want to hear.
Quote
Quote
He said I said you were silly and over-emotional. I never said either of those things.
You implied both.
What you think I implied is immaterial. I did not say that, he said I did say it. Someone specificallly asked him what I said, and he specifically responded that I said something I did not. He didn't say I implied it, or meant it, or anything like that at all. He said "Berkut said Meri was being silly and over-emotional". I did not.
We can argue about what I implied, but that is irrelevant to what I said. Of course I did not imply any such thing at all, unless the only possible responses to your post is gushing approval and "implying that you are silly and overly emotional".
Quote
No, the words themselves were not said, but everything that you said and every way that you said it implied that very thing. If you don't think that I was being silly and over-emotional, then again, you had a piss-poor way of communicating what you actually thought. It's pretty hard to read your posts to mean anything other than "You're being silly and over-emotional".
If I thought you were being silly and overly emotional, than a piss poor way of communicating that would be a huge number of words none of which say you are silly or overly emotional. It is very easy to read my posts as something other than that, especially since my posts never say anything of the kind. I think you interpret NOT being blindly supportive and validating your views as being dismissive. It isn't - I just don't agree with you.
*You* are the one who made this personal Meri, with the "Fuck you's" and dragging it into another thread, and making this about me rather than what happened. My advice to you has been entirely consistent. If it bothered you as much as you say it did, then you should do something about it. If you don't want to do something about it, then it couldn't have bothered you that much because the actual risk to your "potential career" of dealing with this professor is nil. If you say something to him, it will not effect your future career one bit. If you do not, THAT will not effect your career one bit - unless his behavior is in fact so onerous to you that it causes you to drop the class or not perform well.
Simply put, HE has no ability to materially effect your future career one bit...unless you let his behavior bother you. So either don't let it bother you, or take some action to address it. Is that really such a terrible attitude to take about this?
I give up.
You win, Berk. :cheers:
Have a good weekend.
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:48:20 PMNo, I did not. I stated what I thought, and you took exception. Jake then regurgitated what you wanted to hear, because he wants to be seen as the guy defending poor, defenseless Meri from mean nasty Berkut.
You're living in a fantasy land Berkut :lol:
Berkut wins Attritional Victory.
A shame that he rolled so poorly on the Martinus Intervention Table, else I think he could've scored a Marginal.
To be continued Monday?
Please?
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:48:20 PM
If it bothered you as much as you say it did,
Berkut, do you not see how stating things in such a way can be interpreted by others as questioning the reliability of Meri's account?
Quote from: merithyn on January 18, 2013, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
I agree with you plenty, and I disagree with you sometimes. I am not afraid to say so, although I am rather dissapointed that you cannot take me not agreeing with you without letting it become personal. That is unfortnate, but it isn't going to change how I respond to what I see.
You aren't just "not afraid to say so", you're willing to take it to the next level and crusade (to use derspeiss's term) and bully until we agree with you. There is no "difference of opinion" with you. There's your way or "YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST TOO CAUGHT UP IN YOUR OWN WAY OF THINKING !!" Only with more spelling errors.
Meh. This is how I am - I don't at all think like that, but apparently I come across like that. I don't buy into terms like "bullying" though - this is the internet, you cannot "bully" someone virtually. You post, I respond. I post, you respond. If I don't agree with you, I am bullying you, but if you don't agree with me, then I should what - shut up or you will tell me to fuck off, and that is MY problem?
Sorry, I don't buy it.
I have an opinion, and I have as much right to express is as you do. I never claimed you had to DO anything that I say, I just state what I think. You state what you think. They may not be the same thing. So what? What is there to be offended about?
There is noting in anything I've said that is worthy of taking personal offense - except that I don't agree with you.
Quote
Every post you made in that thread was meant to belittle me
That is bullshit Meri. Now you are telling me that MY posts mean? IN he same post you blast me about me supposedly telling you how you feel?
Quote
because you didn't think it was that bad. And when I said that, yes, it was that bad TO ME, you then changed tactic to say, "Then you have no choice IF it was that bad but to do something. If you don't, the ONLY reason you wouldn't would be because it wasn't that bad."
That isn't "changing tactics", that is listening to what you say and chaning my view bsed on new information.
I didn't think it was that bad, you said that it WAS that bad, I went back and re-read your post, thought about it, comapred it to me own experiences, and thought "You know Jeff, you've been in a lot of classes with a lot of teachers, and you have NEVER heard one say something like that...that is probably pretty bad, and if she felt that badly about it, then it was pretty bad".
There aren't any "tactics" because this isn't a contest between us, and I don't have a goal that requires me to manuever, unlike Jake. I am just expressing my opinion. You can either agree, disagree, or not care about my opinion, but you don't get to tell me what it is.
Quote
I'm not sure what world you live in, but in mine, it's not all black and white. There are a whole lot of reasons why people do or don't do things, and rarely does it all boil down to one.
I don't think I said it did.
I said that IF it bother you that much, and clearly it did, then there are only a couple possible ways to resolve it.
1. Do nothing, and don't let it bother you.
2. Do something about it.
That isn't opinion, that is just stating the obvious. There isn't another possibility here. Well, there is a third choice:
3. Do nothing, but let it bother you, and quit/get distracted/fail the class.
Notice that the third option is the one we presumably wish to avoid, right?
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And by the way, I didn't take it personally.
I don't believe you. "Fuck you, Berkut" is pretty personal. Telling me I am calling you sillly when I specifically state that I am not is making it personal. Accusing me of being some incredible ogre is most certainly making it personal.
If your intent was not to make this personal, then "Fuck you Berkut" is, to coin your phrase, a piss-poor way to communicate that.
Quote
What I did do, however, was decide to disengage discussing it with you because I got tired of you being an asshole.
Right, but it isn't personal.
"Fuck you Berkut, you are an asshole, but it isn't personal".
Uhh, right.
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You don't get to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel
Never told you any such thing.
Quote
and what I should or shouldn't do based on what you think I should feel.
Never did that either.
Quote
That's not an "opinion"; that's being a dick.
At least you aren't taking it personally.
*face palm*
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2013, 05:01:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:48:20 PM
If it bothered you as much as you say it did,
Berkut, do you not see how stating things in such a way can be interpreted by others as questioning the reliability of Meri's account?
I suppose, although I am not questioning the reliability at all - I am making a conditional statement.
IF his statements bothered her that much, THEN she should do something about it.
IF they did not bother her that much, THEN she should not do something about it.
How can I be questioning the reliability of her account? Her statement is about how she feels about something - how can you question the reliability of someones account about how they feel? That doesn't even make sense. I don't have any data to judge how she feels beyond what she says.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 18, 2013, 05:00:37 PM
Berkut wins Attritional Victory.
A shame that he rolled so poorly on the Martinus Intervention Table, else I think he could've scored a Marginal.
But I got the bonus Malthus intervention that should have bumped me at least to Minor.
:nerd:
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
His attitude is actually what I take issue with. I mostly agree with his opinion.
Berkut is Berkut. His manner doesn't change. :berkut:
I don't see myself why all the drama. He wasn't trying to be offensive, until the torches-and-pitchforks mob came after him, far as I can see. The mob is making him out like he's some kind of woman-hatiing meanie, when he's just being his usual somewhat prickly self, same as he is on every topic. Expecting him to change and be all sugardrops and rainbows? That's just not his style.
Thank you Malthus. It's nice to see that someone is actually reading what I write.
I was getting pretty worried when it was apparently just spicy (sort of) and Marty who seemed to understand what I was saying!
On the one hand this pointless garbage keeps Languish alive. On the other hand what kind of life is it?
Quote from: The Brain on January 18, 2013, 05:17:02 PM
On the one hand this pointless garbage keeps Languish alive. On the other hand what kind of life is it?
Best we nuke it from orbit, to be sure.
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 18, 2013, 04:11:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkut's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
Kiss of Death Berkie :console:
Well I'm drunk so it could be the reverse. I do find Jacob to be one of the most disingenous and despicable people on this board, though. Hell, I'd prefer derspiess's idiocy.
Funny, I thought it was Berk that was getting drunk after that post about Jacob.
In any event I agree with our resident road warrior - kiss of death.
Quote from: Malthus on January 18, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 18, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
For what it's worth, I find Berkurpt's attitude much more sensible than the faggot ponytail brigade here.
His attitude is actually what I take issue with. I mostly agree with his opinion.
Berkut is Berkut. His manner doesn't change. :berkut:
I don't see myself why all the drama. He wasn't trying to be offensive, until the torches-and-pitchforks mob came after him, far as I can see. The mob is making him out like he's some kind of woman-hatiing meanie, when he's just being his usual somewhat prickly self, same as he is on every topic. Expecting him to change and be all sugardrops and rainbows? That's just not his style.
Just because he is is same prickly self (without the ly) doesnt mean we shouldnt point it out when it gets particularly prickly - without the ly)
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 05:08:39 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2013, 05:01:19 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2013, 04:48:20 PM
If it bothered you as much as you say it did,
Berkut, do you not see how stating things in such a way can be interpreted by others as questioning the reliability of Meri's account?
I suppose, although I am not questioning the reliability at all - I am making a conditional statement.
IF his statements bothered her that much, THEN she should do something about it.
IF they did not bother her that much, THEN she should not do something about it.
How can I be questioning the reliability of her account? Her statement is about how she feels about something - how can you question the reliability of someones account about how they feel? That doesn't even make sense. I don't have any data to judge how she feels beyond what she says.
Typically you don't put if statements around conditions that are always true, since that would be silly and redundant. When stating "If it bothered you as much as you say it did", the implication is that there is a possibility that "it didn't bother her as much as she says it did", which in turn would mean that Meri was an unreliable narrator and over-dramatic in her account.
That's what I was getting it, and my guess would be that this is also the implication that the folks with pitchforks got from it. Not busting your chops, just trying to mediate here. I've had my share of Berkut attack poon over the last 10 years, it's other people's turn to get laid.
You know who's silly and redundant? :)
If Hans were really here he'd advise Meri to fire her professor.
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2013, 05:42:28 PM
If Hans were really here he'd advise Meri to fire her professor.
Ha.