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QuoteWill a Horrific Bus Gang-Rape in Delhi Finally Change India's Culture of Rape?

By Jen Swanson
Posted Thursday, Dec. 20, 2012, at 1:12 PM ET

India may be the world's largest democracy, but it's also one of the most dangerous countries for women.

As if the Haryana rape spree earlier this year, and the religious and political leadership's indifference to it, weren't awful enough, this week brought news of a horrific gang-rape of a 23-year-old med student on a moving Delhi bus, knocking India's entrenched blame-the-victim mentality off its footing. How to demonize a girl who dared watch a film with a male friend before boarding a private bus in a relatively affluent neighborhood around 9 p.m., before most Indians even sit down for dinner? What did she do to invite the next 90-minutes of torture, as six drunk men on board (including the driver, who passed the wheel to a friend so as not to miss his shot) raped her in turn before beating her so badly with an iron rod that medical staff described the site of her naked body, which had been dumped with her friend's alongside the highway, as horrifying? Could this possibly mean that India's pervasive rape culture can't be blamed on women after all?

On Wednesday, angry protests broke out around Delhi, overwhelming police as irate crowds called for police accountability, better protection and even some for public castration. Meanwhile, parliamentarians called for a proper investigation and stricter penalties for law-breakers; some even proposed the death penalty, a far cry from the usual mild finger-wagging. Following suit, the Delhi High Court agreed that the five men apprehended so far should be tried in the fast-track courts, thus saving this case from joining the thousands of other rape cases held up in a system so backlogged that lawsuits often linger 10 to 15 years before going to trial.

Hundreds gathered outside of India Gate to stage a candlelight vigil on Wednesday evening, but not everyone is convinced that the latest attack will change anything. "People are appalled. And they want instant justice. Chemical castration. Public hanging. Stoned to death. Anything will do. But what has happened is sheer reflection of the way India has evolved. Women being raped day in and day out is a story of Indian evolution," writes journalist Vivek Kaul. Kaul is describing a country where, almost exactly two years ago, a 13-year old girl was gang-raped by four boys. After they left her by the side of the road to die, she crawled into a brick kiln, where she was found and raped by two other men. Later, she was found and raped by a rickshaw driver, only to be abducted and raped for another nine days by a truck driver and his accomplice. The sad fact that still more gang-rapes have been reported since Sunday's bus attack seems to further confirm that Indian women will continue to stock up on pepper spray and suffer this undeserved short straw in life. India, according to Kaul, is a lost cause.

The thousands of protesters who have taken to the streets this week suggest not everyone is willing to just give up. Similarly, the latest news coming out of New Delhi that the accused have been charged with, among other crimes, kidnapping, rape, and attempted murder, could signal that violence towards women won't be tolerated as it has been in the past. Meanwhile, the young victim remains in critical condition after suffering five surgeries and such massive internal injury that her intestines had to be removed.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2012, 01:21:39 AM
From what I heard, it wasn't that horrific.

Quote from: garbon on December 21, 2012, 01:34:07 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2012, 01:21:39 AM
From what I heard, it wasn't that horrific.

Sorry but this has no place here.

Quote from: Phillip V on December 21, 2012, 01:24:45 AM
Long-term, women need more economic and legislative power.

Quote from: Martinus on December 21, 2012, 02:33:34 AM

Quote from: Phillip V on December 21, 2012, 01:24:45 AM
Long-term, women need more economic and legislative power.

Yeah. I mean it's not like any woman has ever managed to raise to any position of power in India.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 21, 2012, 02:48:39 AM
Her date sounds like a 1950s experience. When she got on the bus it was back to the middle ages. Her date should have run her home or she should have got a taxi.

I see it as a class issue. The upper echelons of Indian society are often well-educated and delightful people, many of the lower orders live at a level of ignorance and squalor we can barely comprehend.

Quote from: Martinus on December 21, 2012, 02:52:35 AM
So yeah, what India needs is wholesome slaughter of the brahmin. Reincarnate that, motherfuckers.

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on December 21, 2012, 03:14:40 AM
Merit aside, it is remarkable how Marti always goes immediately to the histrionic analogy to make his point.  But for that charming tendency, I might not truly be convinced that he was either gay or a lawyer.   :hmm:

Quote from: garbon on December 21, 2012, 01:34:07 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2012, 01:21:39 AM
From what I heard, it wasn't that horrific.

Sorry but this has no place here.

Quote from: Martinus on December 21, 2012, 02:33:34 AM

Quote from: Phillip V on December 21, 2012, 01:24:45 AM
Long-term, women need more economic and legislative power.

Yeah. I mean it's not like any woman has ever managed to raise to any position of power in India.

QuoteProtesters scuffled with the police throughout the day. Some police vehicles were damaged, and the police eventually used tear gas, water cannons and sticks to disperse the crowd. Officials said 35 protesters and 37 police officers had been injured, two officers seriously, and that six buses and several police vehicles were damaged.

Outrage over the crime has continued to build across the country and the protesters in New Delhi promised to return in even greater numbers on Sunday.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics8.nytimes.com%2Fimages%2F2012%2F12%2F23%2Fworld%2Findia-floater%2Findia-floater-articleLarge-v2.jpg&hash=a14da332bfe6262844be9e9ad8ce516c5a11788e)

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on December 21, 2012, 03:14:40 AM
Merit aside, it is remarkable how Marti always goes immediately to the histrionic analogy to make his point.  But for that charming tendency, I might not truly be convinced that he was either gay or a lawyer.   :hmm:

Quote from: CdMNeither does this thread.  Timmay's News You Can Use bullshit.

Quote from: Grallon on December 28, 2012, 11:19:46 AM
Rape is about assertion of power - however the receiving end needs to be cognizant of that - not clinically dead gods below!

QuoteA female student gang-raped on a bus in India's capital Delhi has "taken a turn for the worse" at a Singapore hospital, doctors say.

The 23-year-old arrived in Singapore on Thursday after undergoing three operations in a Delhi hospital.

"Her vital signs are deteriorating with signs of severe organ failure," hospital official Kelvin Loh said.

The attack earlier this month triggered violent public protests in India that left one police officer dead.

Six men have been arrested and two police officers have been suspended following the 16 December attack.

Doctors had earlier described the woman as "fighting for her life".

Family informed

Mr Loh said in a statement that the hospital had put her on "maximum artificial ventilation support, optimal antibiotic doses as well as stimulants which maximise her body's capability to fight infections".

"Her family members have been informed that her condition has deteriorated and they are currently by her side to encourage and comfort her," he said.

"The High Commission of India is with her and her family at this critical time. Our medical team continues to provide all possible treatment and care," Mr Loh added.

On arrival at the hospital in Singapore, doctors said that as well as a "prior cardiac arrest, she also had infection of her lungs and abdomen, as well as significant brain injury".

The case has provoked protests across India in recent days The government has tried to halt rising public anger by announcing a series of measures intended to make Delhi safer for women.

These include more police night patrols, checks on bus drivers and their assistants, and the banning of buses with tinted windows or curtains.

The government has also said that it will post the photos, names and addresses of convicted rapists on official websites to shame them.

The victim and her friend had been to see a film when they boarded the bus in the Munirka area, intending to travel to Dwarka in south-west Delhi.

Police said she was raped for nearly an hour, and both she and her companion were beaten with iron bars and thrown out of the moving bus into a Delhi street.

India's Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde said in a statement on Thursday that the government had decided to send the victim overseas on the recommendation of her doctors.

"Despite the best efforts of our doctors, the victim continues to be critical and her fluctuating health remains a big cause of concern to all of us," he said.

Quote from: Grallon on December 28, 2012, 11:19:46 AM
Rape is about assertion of power - however the receiving end needs to be cognizant of that - not clinically dead gods below! :glare:

Poor girl  :(




G.

Quote from: Habbaku on December 28, 2012, 12:27:49 PM
wat

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
I think he's saying that rape is more fulfilling and enjoyable for the rapist if the victim is conscious and aware they were raped.

Quote from: Barrister on December 28, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
I strongly disagree with the "rape = power imbalance" theory, but I have heard it from sources more reputable than grallon as well.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
I think he's saying that rape is more fulfilling and enjoyable for the rapist if the victim is conscious and aware they were raped.

Quote from: Grallon on December 28, 2012, 01:14:26 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
I think he's saying that rape is more fulfilling and enjoyable for the rapist if the victim is conscious and aware they were raped.

You seem to be one of the few that makes an effort to read what I write without prejudices.

Quote from: DGuller on December 28, 2012, 12:52:46 PM

Quote from: Barrister on December 28, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
I strongly disagree with the "rape = power imbalance" theory, but I have heard it from sources more reputable than grallon as well.

There are such sources?  :huh:

Quote from: Razgovory on December 28, 2012, 05:20:46 PM

Quote from: DGuller on December 28, 2012, 12:52:46 PM

Quote from: Barrister on December 28, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
I strongly disagree with the "rape = power imbalance" theory, but I have heard it from sources more reputable than grallon as well.

There are such sources?  :huh:

Yes.  There are a lot of psychological theories on why people commit crimes.  I've heard the one they are talking about, but don't know much about it.  The idea is that rape is less about the sexual gratification, and more about dominating someone else.

Quote from: Razgovory on December 28, 2012, 05:27:20 PM
And now she's dead.

Quote from: Razgovory on December 28, 2012, 05:27:20 PM
And now she's dead.

Quote from: Habbaku on December 28, 2012, 05:19:55 PM


You might try a little thing called 'grammar' next time.

Quote from: Razgovory on December 28, 2012, 05:27:20 PM
And now she's dead.

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

Quote from: derspiess on December 31, 2012, 09:47:17 AM

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

In fairness to Seedy, the thread title does seem to naively indicate that things may change.  I don't see how he's being a dick or asshole here.

Quote from: mongers on December 31, 2012, 09:49:01 AM

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

You've been away, he's being doing his level best to fill the void.   :)

Quote from: derspiess on December 31, 2012, 09:47:17 AM

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

In fairness to Seedy, the thread title does seem to naively indicate that things may change.  I don't see how he's being a dick or asshole here.

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

QuoteEditor's note: Leeza Mangaldas is an actress based in Mumbai. She is also the founder of Evoke India, a forum for idea-sharing and open dialogue in India. Follow her on Twitter and Facebook.

Mumbai, India (CNN) -- Misogyny is so deeply rooted in India's collective psychology that even the president's son -- in this case, Congress Parliament member Abhijit Mukherjee -- could entangle himself with a remark against women protesting gang rape.

He called them "dented and painted women" who go to discos, have little connection with ground realities and are making candlelight vigils fashionable.

After an enormous backlash, he apologized and retracted his comments, but many are not satisfied and want his resignation.

Misogyny has long permeated our textbooks, our pedagogy and our parenting. In fact, it runs so deep that it reflects itself even in our linguistics. The Hindi phrase most commonly used to describe sexual violence or rape against women is "izzat lootna," which means "to steal the honor of." Another Hindi word used for rape, "balatkar" (or "bad act"), is considered so erudite and technical that it's barely ever used. (Its English equivalent would be "coitus" instead of "sex.")

So, for the most part, we're stuck with "izzat lootna" -- and the necessary question: Why should a rapist be given so much credit? Rape is a criminal act of force and perverse subjugation. When a woman is raped, her most fundamental rights as a human being are violated.

Yet, she is just as honorable as she ever was. Honor cannot be stolen. It can only be surrendered. Surely in the act of rape, it is the perpetrator, not the victim, who surrenders honor.

The brave girl from Delhi died with her honor intact. Her rapists will live in ignominy.

Unfortunately, in India rape is inextricably linked by men -- and women -- to shame: the ultimate desecration. Many victims are murdered by their rapists or choose to commit suicide. It is also not uncommon for the parents of rape victims to kill themselves. Thus, most victims don't speak up about what happened to them, lest their families be ostracized, lest they never find a husband or be shunned by their friends.

About 10 months ago, I was offered a role of a young, urban woman who gets gang raped. The film explores how she chooses to deal with what happens to her. It is a very powerful script, and most of me wanted to accept the role immediately. But a gnawing part of me worried about how I'd be perceived by the general public were I to perform this role.

Female sexuality in Hindi cinema is extremely fraught, especially because audiences seem unable to comprehend the distinction between what a role demands from an actor and that person's conduct offscreen.

In the script the woman is attractive, confident and self aware; she'd had several consensual relationships with men and enjoyed her sexuality. Truth be told, her character is not far from me in real life. Still, in patriarchal, judgmental, misogynistic Indian society, these are labels most women are afraid to carry publicly. On top of this, the character gets raped.

I was afraid to accept the role. Afraid of whether audiences and the media would think I was promiscuous, desecrated. Embarrassed at the prospect of saying I'm doing a film in which I get raped, lest aspersions be cast on my character.

There lay, in my own mind, the seeds of the same misogyny that makes Mr. Mukherjee's remarks in the wake of the student's gang rape so deplorable. Seeds I had to uproot at once. I accepted the role.

At the time I was offered the film, rape wasn't getting the sort of national attention it is getting right now. It was still a topic that made most people uncomfortable, a topic that women and men alike were not able to freely express their opinions on.

That India's young public is today demanding so vocally the need to address the way we view sexuality and gender equality is empowering. People are sharing their own experiences of sexual violence on blogs and social media. Men and women are collaborating to seek legal reform, to challenge the societal perceptions they have been force-fed.

We now understand that to remain silent bystanders of a crime is to collude with the criminal. It is clear to me that as actors, filmmakers, artists, journalists, activists -- people who use a medium that has the potential to reach so many minds -- it is our responsibility to educate and mobilize, while we entertain.
For the last 10 months, as we have been rehearsing and shooting, the subject of rape has been my foremost preoccupation. Two points have struck me in particular: First, the director, who is also the scriptwriter, is male. His co-writer, the music composer, is also male. These two artists, Tarun Chopra and Daboo Malik, chose to champion a cause that almost always gets packaged as a women's issue.

In India, sexual violence is perpetrated almost entirely by men. Rapists are male. Should men not feel responsible then to prevent the occurrence of this crime? Shouldn't men be disturbed that their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters constantly feel unsafe or feel they have to dress and behave in a particular way to avoid getting raped? Isn't it time men educated other men about consent?

Secondly, and this point took me longer to acknowledge, women are as guilty as men for the mindset that breeds the crime. We kill our own infant daughters, we immolate our sons' wives if they bear female children, we disapprove of women who make an effort to be attractive -- and doubt their character. We still look at marriage as if it's the purpose for which we were born.

But misogyny is no longer misogyny when expressed by a woman. It's self-loathing.

And while it is easy -- and justified -- for women to point fingers at men for the chauvinism in our society, don't we owe it to ourselves to look within?

Quote from: merithyn on December 31, 2012, 11:11:23 AM
As to the idea that India cannot change, I think that's silly. It wasn't so long ago that women were seen in a fairly similar way in the US. No, we didn't kill our daughters, but they certainly weren't valued like a boy was.

Quote from: derspiess on December 31, 2012, 11:28:17 AM

Quote from: merithyn on December 31, 2012, 11:11:23 AM
As to the idea that India cannot change, I think that's silly. It wasn't so long ago that women were seen in a fairly similar way in the US. No, we didn't kill our daughters, but they certainly weren't valued like a boy was.

Not enough similarity there to validate the comparison.

Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
And probably 90%+ of those cases are those are likely where consent is in doubt (for whatever reason, we don't need to rehash that argument).

I am pretty sure brutal gang-rapes have never been acceptable in any degree.

Quote from: Razgovory on December 31, 2012, 12:14:51 PM

Quote from: derspiess on December 31, 2012, 11:28:17 AM

Quote from: merithyn on December 31, 2012, 11:11:23 AM
As to the idea that India cannot change, I think that's silly. It wasn't so long ago that women were seen in a fairly similar way in the US. No, we didn't kill our daughters, but they certainly weren't valued like a boy was.

Not enough similarity there to validate the comparison.

Yeah, it's a stretch.  I don't think there was ever a time in the US when people looked at rape as okay.  It was always seen as a vile crime.  The sanctity of women was a major point in 19th and early 2oth century culture.

Quote from: sbr on December 31, 2012, 12:55:40 PM

Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
And probably 90%+ of those cases are those are likely where consent is in doubt (for whatever reason, we don't need to rehash that argument).

I am pretty sure brutal gang-rapes have never been acceptable in any degree.

Cheryl Araujo  takes issue with your use of never.

Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2012, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: sbr on December 31, 2012, 12:55:40 PM

Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
And probably 90%+ of those cases are those are likely where consent is in doubt (for whatever reason, we don't need to rehash that argument).

I am pretty sure brutal gang-rapes have never been acceptable in any degree.

Cheryl Araujo  takes issue with your use of never.

They were found guilty.  You don't measure acceptability inside the gang...and you certainly don't count defense attorneys.

Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2012, 02:39:19 PM
:rolleyes:

Woe be unto me to engage in this kind of petty Languish argument, but...seedy, drunken bar crowds are often little better than a mob.  And while they could not be legally tried, they all should be beaten like baby seals.

But the action, or inaction of a bar mob does not mean it is socially acceptable.  After all, the folks her picked her up outside the bar didn't rape her as well (unlike the similar circumstances in the India case).

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 31, 2012, 10:05:08 AM

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
I've no idea why you need to be an asshole and snarkily tell us that things aren't going change quick. Way to point out the obvious. :rolleyes:

Indian culture is a filthy, useless, misogynist culture, just like the rest of that side of the planet, from the Islamotards to the Chinese. 
As citizens of western liberal democracies borne of the Age of Reason, we can bust on it all we want.

Quote from: Tonitrus on December 31, 2012, 02:39:19 PM
but...seedy, drunken bar crowds are often little better than a mob. 

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Seeds, stop being a bitch? :huh:

Quote from: grumbler on January 01, 2013, 12:52:08 PM

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Seeds, stop being a bitch? :huh:

Will you two just get a room, already?  :glare:

Quote from: Phillip V on January 04, 2013, 11:13:15 AM
Policemen often try to dissuade victims from registering cases, steering them to marry their assailant, they say.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 04, 2013, 11:39:15 AM

Quote from: Phillip V on January 04, 2013, 11:13:15 AM
Policemen often try to dissuade victims from registering cases, steering them to marry their assailant, they say.

How romantic.  :lol:

QuoteBikram Singh Brahma suspended by Congress over Assam 'sex attack'

The ruling Congress party in India's Assam state has suspended a politician accused of rape after he was set upon and beaten by crowds in a village.

Bikram Singh Brahma was detained on Thursday after the victim's husband reported the alleged rape.

National TV showed footage of the politician being stripped of his shirt and slapped by women.

Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi said his action was "condemnable" and he should be punished.

Pressure has grown for tougher action on rape since a woman was attacked in Delhi on 16 December and later died.

Five men have been charged with the kidnap, gang-rape and murder of the 23-year-old, whose name has not been released.

The government has set up a committee under a retired Supreme Court judge to recommend changes to the law on rape.

Mr Brahma was beaten and accused by villagers in Chirang district, on the border with Bhutan.

"It is most condemnable. It is a most heinous crime. He should be punished... Police have already arrested him. The case should be disposed of at the earliest," CNN-IBN news channel quoted Mr Gogoi as saying.

Police said a man reported that his wife had been raped during the night by Mr Brahma.

The politician allegedly entered the woman's house and raped her at about 02:00 (20:30 GMT Wednesday), according to a police official.

Hearing screams, villagers ran to the house and captured the man, the official told Associated Press news agency.

Indian television channels broadcast footage of Mr Brahma surrounded by men and women in a street in daylight.

Some men kick and beat him with what appears to be a stick, before others restrain them. Then women move in, tearing off his shirt and slapping him in the face and on his arms.

Police arrived in the village at midday but the people holding Mr Brahma initially refused to hand him over, according to the Times of India newspaper.

They demanded officers record him confessing to the rape before he was taken away.

Police told the paper they had taken him into custody but had not arrested him, pending the registration of the case.

Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2013, 04:44:12 PM
Yeah, I'm kind of done with this thread. Can't do the jokes about rape.

Quote from: Valmy on January 04, 2013, 04:48:32 PM

Quote from: merithyn on January 04, 2013, 04:44:12 PM
Yeah, I'm kind of done with this thread. Can't do the jokes about rape.

Wait we are condemning the entire thread just because Malthus is a degenerate?

Quote from: derspiess on January 04, 2013, 11:35:44 AM

Quote from: grumbler on January 01, 2013, 12:52:08 PM

Quote from: garbon on December 31, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Seeds, stop being a bitch? :huh:

Will you two just get a room, already?  :glare:

I believe they already did.  Hence, the awkwardness between them.

Quote from: garbon on January 04, 2013, 05:03:58 PM
Why would that be awkward?

QuoteGuru claims Indian gang-rape victim could have avoided tragedy

An Indian spiritual guru has sparked a backlash after saying the 23-year-old student who died after being gang-raped could have averted the tragedy by begging for mercy.

Asharam, known to his followers as "Bapu" or father, told his devotees that blame for the assault on a moving bus in New Delhi on December 16 should not just rest with her attackers.

"This tragedy would not have happened if she had chanted God's name and fallen at the feet of the attackers. The error was not committed by just one side," he said in video footage which has been widely circulated on the internet.

The 71-year-old's remarks - the latest in a series of gaffes by public figures blaming women for India's rape epidemic - drew a chorus of condemnation.

Ravi Shankar Prasad, spokesman for the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), said the statement was "deeply disturbing and painful".

"For him to make the statement in relation to a crime which has shocked the conscience of the country is not only unfortunate but deeply regrettable," he told reporters.

The Hindu newspaper said it was "a disgrace when a man of religion stoops so low".

"Asharam deserves to be condemned in the strongest words," the daily added in an editorial.

The editorial also criticised politicians from the ruling Congress party as well as the BJP for their sexist commentary on the Delhi rape and the need for Indian women to stay home and make traditional choices.

"Their notions of... an ideal society appear rooted in the very prejudices that have engendered a culture of violence against women, the Delhi incident being its most recent and horrific manifestation," the newspaper said.

Abhijit Mukherjee, the son of India's president who is a Congress lawmaker, landed himself in hot water last month after comparing women who took part in protests over the gang-rape to patched up second-hand cars.

Five men have been charged with rape and murder in the December 16 attack on the young student. A sixth accused, who is 17, is to be tried in a separate court for juveniles.

Quote from: Syt on January 08, 2013, 08:38:50 AM
Huh. Turns out it's partially the girl's fault because she didn't beg for mercy in the name of god.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9787029/Guru-claims-Indian-gang-rape-victim-could-have-avoided-tragedy.html

QuoteGuru claims Indian gang-rape victim could have avoided tragedy

An Indian spiritual guru has sparked a backlash after saying the 23-year-old student who died after being gang-raped could have averted the tragedy by begging for mercy.

Asharam, known to his followers as "Bapu" or father, told his devotees that blame for the assault on a moving bus in New Delhi on December 16 should not just rest with her attackers.

"This tragedy would not have happened if she had chanted God's name and fallen at the feet of the attackers. The error was not committed by just one side," he said in video footage which has been widely circulated on the internet.

The 71-year-old's remarks - the latest in a series of gaffes by public figures blaming women for India's rape epidemic - drew a chorus of condemnation.

Ravi Shankar Prasad, spokesman for the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), said the statement was "deeply disturbing and painful".

"For him to make the statement in relation to a crime which has shocked the conscience of the country is not only unfortunate but deeply regrettable," he told reporters.

The Hindu newspaper said it was "a disgrace when a man of religion stoops so low".

"Asharam deserves to be condemned in the strongest words," the daily added in an editorial.

The editorial also criticised politicians from the ruling Congress party as well as the BJP for their sexist commentary on the Delhi rape and the need for Indian women to stay home and make traditional choices.

"Their notions of... an ideal society appear rooted in the very prejudices that have engendered a culture of violence against women, the Delhi incident being its most recent and horrific manifestation," the newspaper said.

Abhijit Mukherjee, the son of India's president who is a Congress lawmaker, landed himself in hot water last month after comparing women who took part in protests over the gang-rape to patched up second-hand cars.

Five men have been charged with rape and murder in the December 16 attack on the young student. A sixth accused, who is 17, is to be tried in a separate court for juveniles.

Quote from: Malthus on January 08, 2013, 09:18:27 AM
Woah. That's pretty harshly backwards. The reaction by pundits and politicians, seems to me, is more horrifying than the incident - after all, everywhere there exists psychopaths, but not everywhere are there public religious and political figures making excuses for them and blaming their victims.

Quote from: Phillip V on January 08, 2013, 12:32:51 PM
Maybe a 'Not Guilty' verdict will generate more powerful protests and change.

Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2013, 11:16:26 AM

Quote from: Malthus on January 08, 2013, 09:18:27 AM
Woah. That's pretty harshly backwards. The reaction by pundits and politicians, seems to me, is more horrifying than the incident - after all, everywhere there exists psychopaths, but not everywhere are there public religious and political figures making excuses for them and blaming their victims.

Yeah there are two things I can usually count on in the US when there is a high profile rape case (unless it involves children) from the usual clowns:

1. Anyone with allegations of rape are always guilty until proven innocent.

2. Rape jokes.

But at least here it is not prominent leaders making these sorts of statements, at least not publicly.

Quote from: Malthus on January 08, 2013, 01:15:18 PM
I'm not spoiling for a fight over this.

Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2013, 01:21:06 PM

Quote from: Malthus on January 08, 2013, 01:15:18 PM
I'm not spoiling for a fight over this.

Fight?  I thought I was just elaborating and agreeing with what you were saying.  That is why I said 'yeah' and not 'nope'.  :wacko:

Quote from: Malthus on January 08, 2013, 01:45:42 PM
My mistake. I thought you were making a more pointed comment, following up on "degenerate".

QuoteHis daughter, 23, who died after being gang-raped and attacked with a metal rod on a moving bus in New Delhi on Dec. 16, has become a symbol of all that is wrong with how India treats its women and girls. But until December, she had been an example of something very different: of how far ambition, hard work and parental love can remove one generation from the rural poverty that is the lot of most of India's 1.2 billion people.
...
"At the village we could not fulfill our needs, so it was inevitable to move out," Mr. Singh said about the decision to leave three decades ago...  Mr. Singh's first salary in the city was about $4 a month, but he soon saved enough to have his wife, Asha, join him the city, and then to buy land and build a small home. While girls are not always prized in India, Mr. Singh and his wife lavished attention on their firstborn, a daughter, he recalled. "Whether it's a girl or a boy, it's God's gift," he said.

The daughter — whose name is being withheld because it is illegal to name a rape victim in India without permission from the victim or her next of kin — showed as a very young girl a love for school, her father remembered. "She used to cry if she couldn't go to school," he said.
...
Together, they discussed how she might advance further than even their most accomplished relative, a judge. She wished to become a doctor, but because money was tight, she chose physiotherapy and enrolled in a school in Dehra Dun, a major city in the north.

To pay for school, Mr. Singh sold most of the land he owned in Medawara Kalan, borrowed money from family members and worked double shifts, 16 hours a day, loading luggage at the New Delhi airport.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics8.nytimes.com%2Fimages%2F2013%2F01%2F12%2Fworld%2Fasia%2F12INDIA-1%2F12INDIA-1-articleInline-v2.jpg&hash=b3a5718625029a0839a0e1d1056d0aeb2108a854)

Quote6 arrested in new gang rape of a bus passenger in India

NEW DELHI (AP) — Police said they arrested six men on Saturday in another gang rape of a bus passenger in India, four weeks after a deadly attack on a student on a moving bus in the capital outraged Indians and led to calls for tougher rape laws.

Police officer Raj Jeet Singh said a 29-year-old woman was traveling by bus to her village in northern Punjab state on Friday night and was the only passenger. He said the driver and conductor are accused of driving her to a desolate location and then taking her to a nearby building, where they were joined by five friends in raping her repeatedly throughout the night.

The driver dropped the woman off at her village early Saturday, he said.

Singh said police arrested six suspects on Saturday and were searching for another.

The brutal rape of a 23-year-old student on a New Delhi bus in December set off an impassioned debate about what India needs to do to prevent such tragedies. Protesters and politicians have called for tougher rape laws, major police reforms and a transformation in the way the country treats women.

In her first published comments Sunday, the mother of the deceased student said all six suspects in that case, including one believed to be a juvenile, deserve to die.

She was quoted by The Times of India newspaper as saying that the youngest suspect participated in the most brutal aspects of the rape.

Five men have been charged with the student's rape and murder and face a possible death penalty if convicted. The sixth suspect, who says he is 17 years old, is likely to be tried in a juvenile court if medical tests confirm he is a minor. His maximum sentence would be three years in a reform facility.

"Now the only thing that will satisfy us is to see them punished. For what they did to her, they deserve to die," the newspaper quoted her as saying.

Some activists have demanded a change in Indian laws so that juveniles committing heinous crimes can face the death penalty.

The names of the victim of the Dec. 16 attack and her family have not been released.

The physiotherapy student died from massive internal injuries in a Singapore hospital where she was sent for emergency treatment.

Quoteis likely to be tried in a juvenile court if medical tests confirm he is a minor

Quote from: Ideologue on February 08, 2013, 03:31:46 AM

Quoteis likely to be tried in a juvenile court if medical tests confirm he is a minor

Ah, are they gonna count his rings? :unsure:

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 16, 2013, 10:47:40 AM
I don't think Meri's that old. :unsure:

Quote



British tourist jumps out of hotel room in India, fearing sexual attack

Published March 19, 2013

Associated Press



NEW DELHI –  A British woman traveling in India jumped out of the third-floor window of her hotel room on Tuesday, telling police she feared a sexual attack after the hotel's owner tried to force his way into the room by offering her a massage.

The woman was not badly hurt, although she suffered some injuries to her legs, police officer Sushant Gaur said.

Police arrested the hotel owner in connection with the incident in Agra, the site of the Taj Mahal, one of India's most cherished tourist attractions, Gaur said. No charges have been filed.

The woman told the police that the hotel owner kept knocking on her door persistently and even tried to unlock the door after she refused his offer of a free massage.

The owner denied that and police said he told them he knocked on the woman's door only because she had asked to be woken up at 4 a.m.

"Our consular team has spoken to this lady and also to the local police," a spokesman for the British High Commission in New Delhi said, adding the high commission, or embassy, was offering her consular assistance.

The incident comes after a Swiss tourist was gang-raped on Friday in central India. Six men have been arrested in that attack.

The violence comes amid heightened concern about sexual assaults in India that followed the fatal gang-rape of a young woman on a moving bus in New Delhi in December.

That rape sparked public protests demanding the government do a better job of protecting women.

In response, the government passed a law increasing prison terms for rape and providing for the death penalty in cases of rape that result in death or leave the victim in a coma. It has also made voyeurism, stalking, acid attacks and the trafficking of women punishable under criminal law.

Quote
Woman gang-raped inside lawyer's chamber
Published: Tuesday, Mar 19, 2013, 23:20 IST
Place: New Delhi | Agency: PTI

A woman has alleged that she was raped by four men, including her estranged husband, inside a lawyer's chamber here, police said on Tuesday.

The victim claimed that the incident took place in a chambers of the lawyer practicing in Patiala court complex.

She claimed that her husband's lawyer called her to the court on pretext of settling her divorce petition.

She claimed her husband and sister-in-law took her to the chamber where she was raped by the lawyer, his assistant and her husband and her brother-in-law.

A case has been registered.

QuoteIt has also made [...] acid attacks and the trafficking of women punishable under criminal law.

QuoteThe accused in rape of a five-year-old girl in Delhi was arrested from Muzaffarpur in Bihar on Friday night, said police.

The five-year-old girl was raped, battered, had a plastic bottle and candles shoved into her vagina and was left to die in a locked room in east Delhi by her 25-year-old neighbour before she was discovered two days later, lying in a pool of her own blood.

When her father went to the police for help, they gave him Rs. 2,000 to hush up the matter.

And when protesters gathered outside the hospital the girl was taken to, a senior police officer thought nothing of slapping a woman demonstrator.

Clearly, nothing has changed in rape capital Delhi, despite the public outrage and government assurances that followed the December 16 gang rape of a 23-year-old woman on a moving bus and her subsequent death.

The little girl was playing near her rented house in Dilshad Garden last Sunday evening when she was abducted by Manoj, a tailor who doubles up as a labourer. For the next 72 hours, she was raped and brutalised over and over again in a room right below her own house, as her family searched desperately for her.

She was rescued from her dark prison on Wednesday, after her parents heard her feeble cries and called the police.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2013, 05:15:47 PM
Yeah, I could've done without the image of a cop slapping a female protester.

QuotePolice Commissioner Neeraj Kumar said at a news conference Monday that the increase in the number of reported sex crimes in New Delhi was a measure of how much more seriously the police took such reports since the gang rape of a medical student in December led to widespread protests and the enactment of a new rape law.

Quote from: merithyn on April 22, 2013, 10:03:39 AM

QuotePolice Commissioner Neeraj Kumar said at a news conference Monday that the increase in the number of reported sex crimes in New Delhi was a measure of how much more seriously the police took such reports since the gang rape of a medical student in December led to widespread protests and the enactment of a new rape law.

:hmm:

Based on the fact that the police tried to buy the parents' silence for 2000 rupees, I'm gonna go with a big fat NOT. :contract:

Quote from: Malthus on April 22, 2013, 10:16:47 AM
My guess is that the prominence of the issue, raised by the high-profile Bus Case, has simply made reporting by members of the public more frequent.

Whether there has been any improvement on the part of the cops is an open question. Obviously, even if there has, not all cops there have got the memo.

Quote from: merithyn on April 19, 2013, 05:12:54 PM

I hope the mother fucker roasts in hell... but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets off without serving a day in prison.

Quote
U.S. female sailor beats Dubai rapist bus driver into submission

An off-duty U.S. navy sailor wrestled a Dubai bus driver to the ground and beat him into submission after he tried to rape her at knifepoint on Jan. 19, a courtroom heard Wednesday.

The woman, 28, was on 24-hour shore leave in Dubai when she was attacked by a bus driver after he picked her up from the Mall of the Emirates shopping center.


"I noticed he did not take the main road and when I asked him he told me not to worry," she said, according to the Daily Mail.

He then stopped where several other buses were parked and tried to kiss her. After she refused, he pulled out a knife and tried to rape her.

Prosecutors said that she knocked the knife from his hand, broke it in two, bit him in the hand, forced him to the ground and locked him between her thighs, the Daily Mail reports.

The man, known as K S, has been charged with attempted rape, threatening to kill, assault and consuming alcohol illegally, the Daily Mail reports.

Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Nice work K S :cheers:

Quote from: merithyn on April 26, 2013, 10:04:23 PM

Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Nice work K S :cheers:

:huh: :unsure:

K S is the would-be rapist. I don't think that's what you mean.

Quote from: garbon on April 26, 2013, 04:58:31 PM
Good on her.

Quote from: Phillip V on April 26, 2013, 06:08:37 PM
Do we have the woman's identity/picture so that we can give her a pat on the back?

QuoteThe man, known as K S, has been charged with attempted rape, threatening to kill, assault and consuming alcohol illegally, the Daily Mail reports.

Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2013, 11:49:00 PM

Quote from: merithyn on April 26, 2013, 10:04:23 PM

Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Nice work K S :cheers:

:huh: :unsure:

K S is the would-be rapist. I don't think that's what you mean.

:blush: reading fail

I, of course, meant the marine in question.

Quote from: The Brain on April 27, 2013, 01:29:38 AM

QuoteThe man, known as K S, has been charged with attempted rape, threatening to kill, assault and consuming alcohol illegally, the Daily Mail reports.

One of those carries a jail sentence.

Quote from: Martinus on April 27, 2013, 02:14:43 AM
Consuming alcohol?

Quote from: lustindarkness on April 27, 2013, 09:13:25 AM
Jake, sailor, not marine.

Quote from: lustindarkness on April 27, 2013, 09:13:25 AM
Jake, sailor, not marine.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on April 27, 2013, 08:44:49 AM

Quote from: Martinus on April 27, 2013, 02:14:43 AM
Consuming alcohol?

Most likely.

And yeah, Jake, reporting rape victims' identities is a big no-no.  Won't know anything unless she comes forward to talk about it.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on April 27, 2013, 08:44:49 AM

Quote from: Martinus on April 27, 2013, 02:14:43 AM
Consuming alcohol?

Most likely.

And yeah, Jake, reporting rape victims' identities is a big no-no.  Won't know anything unless she comes forward to talk about it.

Quote from: MerithynNot Jacob's day, is it?

Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2013, 11:49:00 PM

Quote from: merithyn on April 26, 2013, 10:04:23 PM

Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Nice work K S :cheers:

:huh: :unsure:

K S is the would-be rapist. I don't think that's what you mean.

:blush: reading fail

I, of course, meant the marine in question.

QuoteNEW DELHI — In India, women's rights have received a lot of attention recently.

Too much attention, according to one small but passionate organization, India's Men's Rights Association.

The group was started in Pune in 2010 to "specifically target the issues men are facing in everyday life, and how they are being discriminated against by society and the law," said the group's founder, Atit Rajpara, 34, in a telephone interview. "Whenever any lawmaking is happening, no one thinks about the men."

The group's stated goals include: breaking the "false myth" of the male-dominated society, rebelling "against social mindset assumption of men being born criminals" and creating a "Men's Welfare Ministry."

Mr. Rajpara said his group tried valiantly to have their point of view heard by the Verma Committee, which was set up after the Dec. 16 gang rape in Delhi to review how India protects women. The committee and other activists ignored 5,000 e-mails sent by Men's Rights Association members on the issue, he said.

"We are not against women," Mr. Rajpara said, but he contended that women are abusing laws that are already on the books to torment their husbands and other men.

Mr. Rajpara was married in 2004 but had an acrimonious divorce. At one point, his ex-wife sued him for child support, he said, even though they had no children. It took him a year and a half to clear his name and get the child support demand dropped, he said.

The new "antirape" law, which passed both houses of India's Parliament this week, ignores 50 percent of India's population, he said, and could be used to falsely target men.

Members and fans of the group were heatedly discussing the new law on the Men's Rights Association Facebook page on Friday.

"Here comes the first misuse," the group titled a Facebook post of an article from The Times of India about a man who could be the first in India to be booked for the crime of stalking, now a criminal offense. The paper reported that 20-year-old engineering student filed stalking charges against a man who kept sending her explicit text messages, even though she told him she was not interested in a relationship.

"Only becuz of those bastards protesting at India gate all men will suffer," one fan of the men's rights group commented on the article.

The site is heavy with pictures decrying the treatment of men ("Men, this is how the world sees you," reads one photo of a roll of toilet paper) and petitions like this one, which declares, "Rape is a shield for a woman to harass men sexually and get away with it."

Writing about the new antirape law, another Facebook commentator introduced a possible future strategy for the group's members: "Now it's better to avoid women, like u avoid cobras..."

.

QuoteHere are some of the bill's crucial changes:

– Women's rights advocates and victims of sexual offenses have long accused a male-dominated police force of refusing to register complaints by women, and even facilitating a monetary settlement or brokering a marriage between victims of rape and the accused.

The bill lays down punishment for police officers who fail to record the initial complaint, known as the first information report, of a woman who alleges she was attacked with acid, assaulted by a man who intended to molest her or "outrage her modesty," stripped naked or raped. Such officers can receive jail terms of six months to two years.

– The bill creates a separate offense to address acid attacks, common in South Asian countries, especially by men who are spurned by women they express an interest in.

Under the bill, those convicted of throwing acid on a woman, causing "permanent or partial damage or deformity," or maiming or disfiguring her, will be punished with prison sentences ranging from 10 years to life and a fine.

With an eye to the rehabilitation of the victim, the bill says the fine should be paid to the woman as compensation.

– The bill defines sexual harassment, which includes "physical contact and advances involving unwelcome and explicit sexual overtures," a demand for sexual favors and showing pornography to a woman who does not want to see it. Those convicted of harassment can receive prison sentences of up to three years.

Making "sexually colored" remarks is also included in the definition of sexual harassment, for which the bill prescribes a prison sentence of up to a year.

– The bill criminalizes the forced stripping of women, or disrobing, in public spaces or in private confines, with a minimum jail term of three years and a maximum of seven. Under the current law, disrobing a woman is not a separate offense.

– One of the more controversial provisions in the bill is the section on voyeurism, which seeks to punish men who watch or photograph women who are conducting a "private act," such as bathing, using the toilet or having sex.

The bill lays down a punishment of three to seven years in prison for those convicted of voyeurism more than once.

Voyeurism is not a separate offense under the current law.

– The bill creates another new, and much-debated, offense: stalking. This provision deals with men who follow a woman and establish contact with her or attempt to do so "to foster personal interaction repeatedly despite a clear indication of disinterest" by the woman.

E-stalking, or monitoring of a woman's activities online, such as browsing or checking of e-mail, has also been made punishable.

A man convicted of stalking once can be sentenced to a term of up to three years, and if convicted again can receive a sentence of up to five years.

– The bill expands the definition of rape to include not just penovaginal intercourse but the insertion of an object or any other body part into a woman's vagina, urethra or anus, and oral sex.

This responds to a longstanding demand of women's rights groups. The issue of rape by different means was highlighted in the Delhi gang-rape case, where an iron rod was inserted into the young woman's body.

Prison sentences for rape can range from seven years to life. The current law allows courts to hand down a sentence of less than seven years for "adequate and special reasons," a provision omitted in the bill.

– The bill raises the age of consent for sex to 18. This means that intercourse with a woman under 18 is statutory rape and courts conducting rape trials cannot consider whether the woman consented to having sex. It also, in effect, criminalizes consensual sex with women under 18, a subject of much controversy.

– The bill does not make marital rape an offense, ignoring a longstanding demand of women's rights advocates.

– The bill takes a tough stand on rape by public servants. Under the current law, when a rape is committed by a police officer or prison staff, those convicted can be punished with sentences ranging from 10 years to life.

The bill clarifies that imprisonment for life means the convict must remain in prison till the end of his natural life.

The bill also allows women to bring a complaint of rape against members of the armed forces.

– When a rape leaves a woman dead or in a "persistent vegetative state," the bill demands a minimum sentence of 20 years in prison and a maximum punishment of death. This is the first time that the death penalty is being prescribed for sexual offenses in India, which, unlike nearly all European nations, retains the death sentence, but uses it only in the "rarest of rare cases."

– The bill increases the minimum punishment for gang rape from 10 years imprisonment to 20 years, and the maximum punishment to life imprisonment.

– The bill provides for life imprisonment or death for repeat offenders convicted of rape and gang rape.

– The bill makes procedural changes to address concerns that women are uncomfortable or intimidated by male police officers, or are treated with insensitivity when they approach police stations to register complaints of sex crimes.

The bill requires that all initial reports involving sexual harassment, disrobing, voyeurism, stalking, rape and gang rape be taken by women officers only.

– In order to ensure speedy trial, the bill requires that rape trials be completed "as far as possible" within two months from the time the police file charges against the accused.

Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 08:50:38 AM
A false myth of a male-dominated society? :huh:

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 26, 2013, 04:32:39 PM
Meanwhile, in not-India... (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/25/us-female-sailor-beats-dubai-rapist-bus-driver-sub/)

Quote
...she knocked the knife from his hand, broke it in two, bit him in the hand, forced him to the ground and locked him between her thighs, ...

Quote from: dps on June 05, 2013, 03:22:42 AM
You know, even in places that take a dim view of rape, a women accepting a lift from 3 guys she doesn't know at 1 AM probably isn't a smart move.

Quote from: dps on June 05, 2013, 03:22:42 AM
You know, even in places that take a dim view of rape, a women accepting a lift from 3 guys she doesn't know at 1 AM probably isn't a smart move.

Quote from: merithyn on April 30, 2013, 08:48:56 AM
The men are fighting back.

QuoteThe site is heavy with pictures decrying the treatment of men (“Men, this is how the world sees you,” reads one photo of a roll of toilet paper) and petitions like this one, which declares, “Rape is a shield for a woman to harass men sexually and get away with it.”

Quote from: dps on June 05, 2013, 03:22:42 AM
You know, even in places that take a dim view of rape, a women accepting a lift from 3 guys she doesn't know at 1 AM probably isn't a smart move.

Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2013, 09:13:16 AM

Quote from: dps on June 05, 2013, 03:22:42 AM
You know, even in places that take a dim view of rape, a women accepting a lift from 3 guys she doesn't know at 1 AM probably isn't a smart move.

Frankly I wouldn't even accept a lift from any combination of genders at 1AM in a country I do not know.

Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2013, 09:13:16 AM

Quote from: dps on June 05, 2013, 03:22:42 AM
You know, even in places that take a dim view of rape, a women accepting a lift from 3 guys she doesn't know at 1 AM probably isn't a smart move.

Frankly I wouldn't even accept a lift from any combination of genders at 1AM in a country I do not know.

QuoteIndia photographer gang raped, male colleague beaten

NEW DELHI A young woman photojournalist was gang raped while her male colleague was tied up and beaten in India's business hub of Mumbai, police said Friday. The case was reminiscent of the December gang rape and death of a young university student in the Indian capital that shocked the country.

Police said the woman was on assignment to take pictures of an abandoned textile factory in south Mumbai late Thursday when five men confronted her with an offer to help her get permission to shoot inside the building.

Police Commissioner Satyapal Singh told reporters that the men tied her colleague's hands with a belt while she was gang raped.

The woman, 22, is in stable condition in hospital.

The assault comes amid heightened concerns about sexual violence in India. The gang rape and death of the student on a bus in New Delhi in December had shaken a country long inured to violence against women and sparked protests demanding better protection for women.

   - India arrests 3 in alleged rape of U.S. woman
   - Five-year-old girl dies in India after rape
   - India sees tourism decline after sex assaults

In response, the government passed a new stringent law increasing prison terms for rape and making voyeurism, stalking, acid attacks and the trafficking of women punishable under criminal law.

The police have released sketches of the men based on descriptions given by the woman and her colleague, and have formed several teams to track them.

Singh said the area where the attack took place was very isolated and the men may have been local drug dealers.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 05, 2013, 07:27:28 AM
I see that culture of rape is changing right along.

Quote from: lustindarkness on August 23, 2013, 09:17:00 AM
nuke it from orbit it is the only way to be sure

QuoteIn response, the government passed a new stringent law increasing prison terms for rape and making voyeurism, stalking, acid attacks and the trafficking of women punishable under criminal law.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2013, 10:09:16 AM
I see forced enemas at gunpoint are still a go, though.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 23, 2013, 10:06:46 AMEr.  So up until very recently, [...] acid attacks[...] weren't punishable under criminal law?  You could throw acid on a woman and you'd be a-okay as far as the cops are concerned?  :blink:

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I keep telling myself that I'm only hearing the worst of it through the headlines, and if I went by that in my own city, I'd be terrified to step outside. Nonetheless, two women traveling the sights of India alone just worries me sick.

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I keep telling myself that I'm only hearing the worst of it through the headlines, and if I went by that in my own city, I'd be terrified to step outside. Nonetheless, two women traveling the sights of India alone just worries me sick.

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

Quote from: Phillip V on August 23, 2013, 09:57:30 AM

Quote from: lustindarkness on August 23, 2013, 09:17:00 AM
nuke it from orbit it is the only way to be sure

nuke all men

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 12:42:02 PM

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I would be as well, even without all the rape over there.

Quote from: Malthus on August 23, 2013, 12:40:06 PM

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I keep telling myself that I'm only hearing the worst of it through the headlines, and if I went by that in my own city, I'd be terrified to step outside. Nonetheless, two women traveling the sights of India alone just worries me sick.

Are they going on their own, or with a tour or guide?

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 23, 2013, 12:45:09 PM

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 12:42:02 PM

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I would be as well, even without all the rape over there.

Me too. I vetoed an idea for a trip to Egypt also. (Durr). But even though there is lots to see in India, I honestly don't think I ever want to go there. That's pretty much the only place on the planet with that distinction for me.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2013, 10:09:16 AM
I see forced enemas at gunpoint are still a go, though.

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I keep telling myself that I'm only hearing the worst of it through the headlines, and if I went by that in my own city, I'd be terrified to step outside. Nonetheless, two women traveling the sights of India alone just worries me sick.

Quote from: lustindarkness on August 23, 2013, 01:35:54 PM
I have never had the slightest desire to visit India.

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 01:28:17 PM

Quote from: Malthus on August 23, 2013, 12:40:06 PM

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Two good friends of mine are going to India for their honeymoon in October. Neither are very savvy travelers, so I'm worried sick about them.

I keep telling myself that I'm only hearing the worst of it through the headlines, and if I went by that in my own city, I'd be terrified to step outside. Nonetheless, two women traveling the sights of India alone just worries me sick.

Are they going on their own, or with a tour or guide?

A guide set up the tour for them, but I don't know if they're traveling alone or with a group. Given that they have very specific ideas of where they wanted to go and what they wanted to see, I would be surprised if they're traveling with others. Hence, a large part of my concern.

Quote from: Malthus on August 23, 2013, 01:42:58 PM

In that case, my main concern would be disease.

I've known lots of people who have toured in India. None have been raped or attacked, but pretty well all of them have gotten sick at some point.

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 02:10:16 PM
If she's a germophobe, why the bloody hell is she going to India in the first place??  It's a very, very, very dirty country.

Even if you talk all the precautions, you stand a good chance to catch something.

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
Wives :rolleyes:  All the same.

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
Wives :rolleyes:  All the same.

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 01:59:22 PM

Quote from: Malthus on August 23, 2013, 01:42:58 PM

In that case, my main concern would be disease.

I've known lots of people who have toured in India. None have been raped or attacked, but pretty well all of them have gotten sick at some point.

Oh, that's the one concern that they both share, and are almost pathological about. I expect them to be exceptionally careful about where they eat, the water they drink, and their cleanliness, to the point of obsession. One of them has Auspergers, so she's a bit of a germophobe in the first place.

Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 03:02:53 PM

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
Wives :rolleyes:  All the same.

To be fair, my friend's preference was for Russia. :D

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 03:32:06 PM
Thankfully I have zero problems with the food or water in Argentina.  If only it were safer to drive there...

QuoteWoman cop gang-raped in Jharkhand

RANCHI: A woman police constable was gangraped by five dacoits in Latehar district of Jharkhand.

The gang rape took place in Udaipura which is 12 km from the Latehar police station on Wednesday night. A case was registered on Thursday.

The 30-year-old survivor with her family members was taking the dead body of a relative for cremation from Ranchi to Garhwa. They were accosted by a gang of dacoits on the Latehar Garhwa National Highway 75.

Police sources said that the woman tried to resist the dacoits when they asked her to get out of the vehicle. "They took the woman aside and took turns to rape her," sub-divisonal police officer (Latehar) Alok Kumar said.

The family members could not do anything as the dacoits were armed. Two of the survivor's sisters were also present in the vehicle.

The dacoits robbed them as well. "Altogether 11 vehicles were looted by the dacoits at gunpoint that night," he added.

DGP Rajiv Kumar on Saturday asked the district police to immediately trace and nab the culprits. "It is a shameful incident. No one involved in the incident would be spared," the DGP said.

A committee has been formed to investigate the case. "We have detained five youths in this connection. They all have criminal history," said Latehar SP Michael S Raj.

Quote from: The Brain on August 24, 2013, 01:27:29 AM

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 03:32:06 PM
Thankfully I have zero problems with the food or water in Argentina.  If only it were safer to drive there...

That's one hell of a drive.

Quote from: The Brain on August 24, 2013, 01:27:29 AM

Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 03:32:06 PM
Thankfully I have zero problems with the food or water in Argentina.  If only it were safer to drive there...

That's one hell of a drive.

QuoteReport: One Indian Woman Killed Every Hour Over Outlawed Dowry Custom

By Elliot Hannon
Posted Tuesday, Sept. 3, 2013, at 6:29 PM


Over the last year, there has been a surge in high profile cases of violence against women in India, particularly cases of rape. The increasing awareness of the treatment of women in India does not mean that abuse is a new problem for the country, but one that is now, more than ever, out in the open.

Adding to the bleak picture of the treatment of women in India, the Indian government released its national crime statistics last week finding that 8,233 women were killed in the country last year due to disputes over dowry payments. That's equivalent to almost one death every hour. The conviction rate for such crimes was 32 percent.

Paying a dowry, which usually amounts to a cash payment from the bride's family to the family of the groom, is officially illegal in India. But, it is a custom that persists across all walks of life in India. "Higher socio-economic strata is equally involved in such practices. Even the highly educated class of our society do not say no to dowry. It runs deep into our social system," New Delhi deputy police commissioner, Suman Nalwa, told the Press Trust of India.

"Dowry demands often continue for years after the wedding," reports the AP. "Each year, thousands of young Indian women are doused with gasoline and burned to death because the groom or his family felt the dowry was inadequate." "Marriages have become commercialized. It's like a business proposition where the groom and his family make exorbitant demands. And the wealthier the family, the more outrageous the demands," women's rights activist, Ranjana Kumari, told the AP.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 03, 2013, 06:04:38 PM
More terrible, yet unsurprising news from India.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/09/03/indian_government_crime_statistics_show_one_indian_woman_killed_every_hour.html

QuoteReport: One Indian Woman Killed Every Hour Over Outlawed Dowry Custom

By Elliot Hannon
Posted Tuesday, Sept. 3, 2013, at 6:29 PM


Over the last year, there has been a surge in high profile cases of violence against women in India, particularly cases of rape. The increasing awareness of the treatment of women in India does not mean that abuse is a new problem for the country, but one that is now, more than ever, out in the open.

Adding to the bleak picture of the treatment of women in India, the Indian government released its national crime statistics last week finding that 8,233 women were killed in the country last year due to disputes over dowry payments. That's equivalent to almost one death every hour. The conviction rate for such crimes was 32 percent.

Paying a dowry, which usually amounts to a cash payment from the bride's family to the family of the groom, is officially illegal in India. But, it is a custom that persists across all walks of life in India. "Higher socio-economic strata is equally involved in such practices. Even the highly educated class of our society do not say no to dowry. It runs deep into our social system," New Delhi deputy police commissioner, Suman Nalwa, told the Press Trust of India.

"Dowry demands often continue for years after the wedding," reports the AP. "Each year, thousands of young Indian women are doused with gasoline and burned to death because the groom or his family felt the dowry was inadequate." "Marriages have become commercialized. It's like a business proposition where the groom and his family make exorbitant demands. And the wealthier the family, the more outrageous the demands," women's rights activist, Ranjana Kumari, told the AP.

Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
Hence, all of the gasoline accidents Indian women suffer.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 06, 2013, 12:35:53 AM

Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
Hence, all of the gasoline accidents Indian women suffer.

Sounds legit to me. More dangerous than dynamite (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMku2mhrDeo)

QuoteAn Indian court has sentenced four men to death for the gang rape and murder of a student in the capital Delhi, a case which led to violent protests across India and new laws against rape.

Mukesh Singh, Vinay Sharma, Akshay Thakur and Pawan Gupta were found guilty on all counts earlier this week.

Judge Yogesh Khanna said the case fell in the "rarest of rare category", rejecting pleas for a lighter sentence.

QuoteNew York's Nina Davuluri crowned 2014 Miss America
Miss New York Nina Davuluri has become the first Miss America of Indian descent, after wooing the judges with a Bollywood fusion dance.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-york-crowned-2014-america-article-1.1456960#ixzz2f4OubXOd

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 16, 2013, 11:54:08 AM
Reminds me of the Indian gals I dated. Ah, memories.  ^_^

Quote from: PDH on September 16, 2013, 12:04:34 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 16, 2013, 11:54:08 AM
Reminds me of the Indian gals I dated. Ah, memories.  ^_^

The only Indian girl I ever date was a 'Not-Touchable'

Quote from: merithyn on September 16, 2013, 12:17:20 PM
Racists on FB are going nuts on this.

One notable quote: "Only four days past 9/11, and THIS woman wins Miss America! Total bullshit!"

:rolleyes:

Quote from: derspiess on September 16, 2013, 12:18:39 PM

You're friends with racists on FB?

Quote from: derspiess on September 16, 2013, 12:42:28 PM
The confusion of Indians with Arabs puzzles me.

Quote from: derspiess on September 16, 2013, 12:42:28 PM
I was always of the opinion that if you're going to be racist, at least be precise.  The confusion of Indians with Arabs puzzles me.

Quote from: Phillip V on September 16, 2013, 04:12:41 PM

Quote from: derspiess on September 16, 2013, 12:42:28 PM
I was always of the opinion that if you're going to be racist, at least be precise.  The confusion of Indians with Arabs puzzles me.

With fatal consequences. :(

Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2013, 04:33:50 PM

Quote from: Phillip V on September 16, 2013, 04:12:41 PM

Quote from: derspiess on September 16, 2013, 12:42:28 PM
I was always of the opinion that if you're going to be racist, at least be precise.  The confusion of Indians with Arabs puzzles me.

With fatal consequences. :(

Yeah, wasn't there a chick who was shoving Hispanics in front of subway trains because she thought they were Arabs?

Quote from: Phillip V on September 16, 2013, 04:55:18 PM
The chick was Hispanic, and she shoved a Hindu Indian in from of a train for "putting down the twin towers."

Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 16, 2013, 08:04:18 PM

Quote from: Phillip V on September 16, 2013, 04:55:18 PM
The chick was Hispanic, and she shoved a Hindu Indian in from of a train for "putting down the twin towers."

And how'd he do that?  Drive around longer to run up the cab meter?

QuoteWoman abducted and gang raped after earlier being raped by different group of men

The 20-year-old was abducted and attacked while sight-seeing with friends in Tamil Nadu, India

A petrified woman was abducted and gang-raped as she tried to make her way to safety after being raped by a different group of men.

The victim, 20, told police she was pounced on firstly by three attackers before being released and assaulted minutes later by seven men.

Indian news broadcaster NDTV said the woman was attacked separately over three hours, before friends finally found her lying outside near a lodge where they had rented a room.

She is now said to be recovering in hospital.

There have been 10 arrests after the ordeal on Christmas Eve in Karaikal, India.

The arrests come ahead of today's anniversary of the death of Jyoti Singh, who was gang-raped and thrown off a moving bus in New Delhi.

She died in hospital in Singapore on December 28, two weeks after being attacked.

Her father, Badri Singh, later decided to reveal his tragic daughter's identity – to give strength to other victims.

Four of her attackers were sentenced to death in October.

QuoteParents of India gang rape victim seek justice

The parents of a 16-year-old girl who died after being gang-raped and set on fire in the eastern Indian city of Calcutta have vowed to fight for justice.

Her father told BBC News: "Till my last breath, the sole aim of my life will be to get justice for her."

Her mother said her daughter had asked her to "make sure [the] people who did this to me are hanged".

A total of eight men have been arrested in connection with the case.

Protestors are outraged at the police's alleged mishandling of the case.

They are demanding strong action against her alleged attackers.

The case came to light after it was revealed that the girl had not taken her own life but had been deliberately set on fire, allegedly by people close to the suspected rapists.

It was aggravated when a dispute broke out on Indian television between the parents of the girl and the police over the funeral arrangements.

The family accused the police of a cover-up and of wanting to keep the case quiet.

Daily fear
The girl was raped on two separate occasions near her home town of Madhyamgram, first on 26 October, then when she was returning from filing a police complaint the next day.

Six men accused of raping her were arrested soon after.

Nearly two months later on 23 December, the girl was admitted to hospital with burns but succumbed to her injuries on New Year's Eve.

The investigating officer, Madhav Santosh Nimbalkar, told the media that the girl had told him that she had been set on fire by two people. Two men were later arrested.

The incident comes a year after the brutal gang rape of a student in Delhi that triggered huge protests across the country and raises once again the issue of the rights of women and their security.

Correspondents say rape is a common occurrence in India with many cases going unreported.

Although India has tightened its anti-rape laws and society is more openly discussing cases of violence against women, women across India still live with the daily fear of sexual assault and victims still often have to deal with police apathy.

QuoteIndian Police Say Danish Tourist Was Gang-Raped

A Danish tourist was gang-raped near a popular shopping area in New Delhi after she stopped to ask for directions, police said Wednesday, the latest case to focus attention on the scourge of violence against women in India.

The 51-year-old woman also was robbed and beaten in the attack, which happened Tuesday afternoon or early evening near Connaught Place, police spokesman Rajan Bhagat said. The woman had lost her way and was trying to get back to her hotel, he said.

She approached a group of men for directions, but they lured her to a secluded area where they raped her at knife-point, according to the Press Trust of India news agency.

The woman managed to reach her hotel Tuesday evening and the owner called police. Police are questioning several suspects but no arrests have been made.

"When she came, it was miserable," said Amit Bahl, owner of the Amax Hotel in the Paharganj area, which is popular with backpackers. The woman was crying and "not in good shape," he said.

"I am really ashamed that this happened," said Bahl, who sounded shaken.

The Danish Embassy had no comment.

The problem of sexual violence in India has gained widespread attention since the horrific gang rape and murder of a 23-year-old woman on a moving bus in December 2012. Public fury over the case has led to more stringent laws that doubled prison terms for rape to 20 years and criminalized voyeurism and stalking.

But for many women, particularly the poor, daily indignities and abuse continue unabated and the new laws have not made the streets any safer. Ranjana Kumari, Director of India's Center for Social Research, said India's conservative, patriarchal traditions lead men to use rape as a tool to instill fear in women.

"This mindset is not changing," she said. "It's a huge challenge."

Experts say the rapid growth of India's cities and the yawning gulf between rich and poor are exacerbating the problem of sexual violence, with young men struggling to prove their traditional dominance in a changing world.

Cultural stigmas, police apathy and judicial incompetence have long made it difficult for women to even report rapes.

Still, there has been a surge in the number of rapes being reported recently, suggesting women are emboldened to speak up. Between January and October last year, 1,330 rapes were reported in Delhi and its suburbs, compared with 706 for all of 2012, according to government figures.

Foreigners also have been targets, including a Swiss woman who was cycling with her husband in central India when she was gang-raped.

The cases threaten India's lucrative tourism industry. Last year, the Tourism Ministry launched an "I Respect Women" campaign to reassure travelers. Tourism accounted for 6.6 percent of India's GDP in 2012, the latest year for which figures are available.

Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 08:18:49 AM
They really need a teenage dating & sex culture.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 31, 2013, 08:28:10 PM
Phil. She got raped on the way back from her rape. That's more than just an extreme example. It's nearly statistically impossible. Except in India.

Quoteand set on fire

Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 08:18:49 AM
They really need a teenage dating & sex culture.

Quote from: merithyn on January 15, 2014, 09:02:57 PM

Quote from: Grey Fox on January 15, 2014, 08:18:49 AM
They really need a teenage dating & sex culture.

Sounds like they're ripe for the seduction community, too.

QuoteIndian village council orders gang rape of woman as 'punishment'
January 23, 2014 9:15AM ET
Elders objected to her relationship with a man

A 20-year-old woman was hospitalized after allegedly being gang-raped by up to 13 men on the orders of village elders in India's West Bengal state. The elders had objected to the woman's relationship with a man, and her family could not afford to pay a fine upon discovery of the affair, police officials said Thursday.

The woman was hospitalized Thursday in serious condition; some reports listed her in critical condition. Television footage showed the woman, her face covered by scarves, being led into a hospital with an IV tube in her arm.

"The morol (village headman) ordered that I be 'enjoyed' by the men of the village," the New Delhi–based NDTV quoted the woman as saying. "Following his orders, at least 10 to 12 people, including (some) members of a single family, continuously raped me. I lost count of how many times I was raped."

Some local news reports said the elders took issue with the woman's relationship with the man because he was from a different community. Other reports said the village council attacked her because she fell in love with a man from a different religion. Police did not reveal the religions of the couple.

Thirteen men have been arrested in the Monday night attack, police said.

The alleged gang rape occurred earlier this week at Subalpur village in Birbhum district, some 124 miles from Kolkata, the capital of West Bengal. The village chief and his associates reportedly asked the couple to pay a fine of 25,000 rupees ($400) each for the alleged indiscretion.

Reports said that the man was able to pay the fine. But when the woman's family said they were too poor to pay, the council ordered the gang rape. Police said the woman's male companion was tied up in the village square while the assault on the woman happened in a mud house, Reuters reported.

'Stringent action' needed

Orders from village councils are not legally binding in India, but they are seen as the will of the local community. The councils decide on social norms in villages, and in some cases they dictate the way women can dress or who they can marry. Those who flout the councils risk being ostracized.

Annie Raja, general secretary of the National Federation of Indian Women, said that the local councils destroy women's rights.

"They are dead set against giving basic human rights to women," she said. "These are nonconstitutional bodies, and the West Bengal government should take stringent action against them."

Four years ago, a village council in Birbhum district ordered a young woman paraded naked through the village. She was accused of falling in love with a man from a different caste.

In October, a teenager was gang-raped on two consecutive days in a Kolkata suburb. She was later set on fire when she refused to withdraw a police complaint against the men who had raped her. She died in a hospital last month, spurring widespread protests in the city.

Earlier this month, a Danish tourist was gang-raped in New Delhi by a group of men when she stopped to ask them for directions to her hotel.

India's Supreme Court has in the past issued opinions condemning the councils as illegal bodies. Several legal organizations are pushing parliament to pass a comprehensive law that would make edicts by local councils illegal.

Al Jazeera and wire services

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2014, 03:28:44 PM
What would have happened to the dude if he hadn't been able to pay?

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 23, 2014, 03:43:10 PM
We sentence people to prisons where it's pretty much a rape sentence. At least the village elders are more direct about it.

Quote from: Liep on January 23, 2014, 04:01:52 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 23, 2014, 03:43:10 PM
We sentence people to prisons where it's pretty much a rape sentence. At least the village elders are more direct about it.

So is that actually a thing or is it just on tv?

Quote from: Liep on January 23, 2014, 04:01:52 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 23, 2014, 03:43:10 PM
We sentence people to prisons where it's pretty much a rape sentence. At least the village elders are more direct about it.

So is that actually a thing or is it just on tv?

Quote from: Liep on January 23, 2014, 04:01:52 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 23, 2014, 03:43:10 PM
We sentence people to prisons where it's pretty much a rape sentence. At least the village elders are more direct about it.

So is that actually a thing or is it just on tv?

Quote from: Sheilbh on January 23, 2014, 07:00:45 PM
Edit: Incidentally I think based on estimates of prison rape (by the DoJ) this makes the US probably the only country in the world where most victims of rape are men.

Quote from: PDH on January 23, 2014, 07:54:27 PM
It is not rape rape since most of those men cannot conceive - the body won't allow it.

Quote from: DGuller on January 23, 2014, 07:04:52 PM
Meh, those prisoners probably dressed provocatively.

Quote from: Neil on January 23, 2014, 08:09:31 PMAren't 1 in 4 women raped or something?

Quote from: LaCroix on January 25, 2014, 01:44:58 PM
if you include only violent incidences of rape, the number of men raped in prison drops as well

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 25, 2014, 02:18:30 PMWho in the what now?

Quote from: LaCroix on January 25, 2014, 02:22:04 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 25, 2014, 02:18:30 PMWho in the what now?

not every raped man in prison goes the andy dufresne route

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 25, 2014, 02:33:20 PMYes, I understand the concept of professional sissies and bitches.  But that's not rape, now is it?

I am interested in how you differentiate "rape" from "violent rape" within the context of a incarceration environment, however.  Date rape, perhaps?  Is acquaintance rape pretty big at the Illinois Department of Corrections?

Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2014, 08:08:52 AM
Do people think about those as separate? After all you are really talking about fear of greater violence. Penetrative sexual assault isn't exactly pain free (re: violence).

Quote from: dps on January 26, 2014, 10:23:29 AM

Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2014, 08:08:52 AM
Do people think about those as separate? After all you are really talking about fear of greater violence. Penetrative sexual assault isn't exactly pain free (re: violence).

Rape traditionally meant the use of force, or the threat of force, to obtain sex.  If the victim doesn't resist, and the threat of force is merely implied, then it can be perceived as being in a grey area.

Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2014, 10:30:55 AM

Quote from: dps on January 26, 2014, 10:23:29 AM
Rape traditionally meant the use of force, or the threat of force, to obtain sex.  If the victim doesn't resist, and the threat of force is merely implied, then it can be perceived as being in a grey area.

I've no idea what you are trying to say.

Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2014, 11:05:02 AM
I don't think LaCroix was talking about BDSM.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 26, 2014, 11:07:46 AM
If the person consents out of fear, then it's rape if you ask me.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 26, 2014, 11:07:46 AM
If the person consents out of fear, then it's rape if you ask me.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 26, 2014, 11:11:41 AM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 26, 2014, 11:07:46 AM
If the person consents out of fear, then it's rape if you ask me.

Agreed.  I was mistaken on what LaCroix meant, but I didn't really agree with it either way.  That prior consent means both parties should be cognizant and the prior consent can still be revoked, via something like a safe word.  I'm such a dork, that I think of it in the same vein as a "remember me" checkmark on a password field- the password still has to be entered, the computer can sorta kinda ignore it in the future, but it can still be revoked by logging out.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 26, 2014, 11:11:41 AMAgreed.  I was mistaken on what LaCroix meant, but I didn't really agree with it either way.  That prior consent means both parties should be cognizant and the prior consent can still be revoked, via something like a safe word.  I'm such a dork, that I think of it in the same vein as a "remember me" checkmark on a password field- the password still has to be entered, the computer can sorta kinda ignore it in the future, but it can still be revoked by logging out.

Quote from: DPSRape traditionally meant the use of force, or the threat of force, to obtain sex.  If the victim doesn't resist, and the threat of force is merely implied, then it can be perceived as being in a grey area.

Quote from: GarbonDo people think about those as separate?

Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2014, 11:25:19 AM
apparently!

Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2014, 11:29:04 AMApparently you do...or?

Quote from: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 11:38:07 AM
My God the retards are out in force. You know who you are! Hmm, maybe not...

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 04, 2014, 06:15:37 AM
So it seems Mrs. MIM will be taking a business trip to Bangalore. Usually, if she goes someplace, especially overseas, I go too. Because, well wouldn't you? But this is...I dunno. I have no desire to go to India but I don't really feel cool about releasing all <100 pounds of blonde rape-bait into India without being around to break some faces. It's a few months off.

Frankly, I want nothing to do with India. If I got free tickets to Calcutta, I'd probably take the first train to Burma or Lhasa.

Quote from: dps on May 04, 2014, 06:31:47 AM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 04, 2014, 06:15:37 AM
So it seems Mrs. MIM will be taking a business trip to Bangalore. Usually, if she goes someplace, especially overseas, I go too. Because, well wouldn't you? But this is...I dunno. I have no desire to go to India but I don't really feel cool about releasing all <100 pounds of blonde rape-bait into India without being around to break some faces. It's a few months off.

Frankly, I want nothing to do with India. If I got free tickets to Calcutta, I'd probably take the first train to Burma or Lhasa.

Serious question:  if she was attacked by a gang of, say, 5 or more men, do you think you could actually do anything about it if you were with her?

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 04, 2014, 06:15:37 AM
So it seems Mrs. MIM will be taking a business trip to Bangalore. Usually, if she goes someplace, especially overseas, I go too. Because, well wouldn't you? But this is...I dunno. I have no desire to go to India but I don't really feel cool about releasing all <100 pounds of blonde rape-bait into India without being around to break some faces. It's a few months off.

Frankly, I want nothing to do with India. If I got free tickets to Calcutta, I'd probably take the first train to Burma or Lhasa.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 04, 2014, 06:33:57 AM

Die fighting.  :(

Seriously, I'd rather that than the alternative.

Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2014, 08:24:18 AM
Surely business trip people never see much beyond  their hotel and the ugly business park that they're visiting. Not too much opportunity for shenanigans

Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2014, 10:55:59 AM
Go to the torpedo factory.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 04, 2014, 06:45:27 AM
Mrs. MIM : Oh, don't worry, the girl I'll be traveling with is much bigger than me and has a lot of muscles.


Me: *So, the only one the rapists will want is you. Wonderful.  :(  *

This looks bad.

Quote from: alfred russel on May 04, 2014, 08:36:55 AM
Also, if you want to get into Lhasa, you might want to look into it now. I don't know if things have changed, but it has been that it is a bit of a pain in the ass to get into Tibet and you need a guide and a group (which maybe only 2 people?). I don't know if you literally meant a train to Burma (I doubt there is one), but even with them opening up, some of their land borders are closed (don't know about India) and there western region has had some recent unrest and I believe might be off limits to visitors.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 04, 2014, 01:03:46 PM
You're a good man Boner.  All those nasty things  people say about you behind your back are just not true.

Quote from: Jacob on May 04, 2014, 01:43:06 PM
Lhasa is hard these days. Every time we're in China we talk about going to Tibet, but it's basically off the table because I'm a Westerner and getting the permits sorted out would be a big pain.

Quote from: Jacob on May 04, 2014, 01:40:59 PM
I understand your worry, but rationally this is at about the same level of paranoia as someone entirely refusing to go to the US trip because they're afraid they'll be shot because of all the crazy gun nuts in the country.

Quote from: Jacob on May 04, 2014, 01:40:59 PM

I understand your worry, but rationally this is at about the same level of paranoia as someone entirely refusing to go to the US trip because they're afraid they'll be shot because of all the crazy gun nuts in the country.

Especially given it's a business trip; is she going to be taking a lot of dodgy public transport unaccompanied or wandering the streets by herself late at night?

Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2014, 03:10:04 PM
Huh.  What does being a Westerner have to do with anything?  Do they just presume we all want to climb up on a balcony and scream 'vive le Tibet libre!' or something?  They shouldn't worry, I doubt many people in Tibet can understand French.

QuoteIndia gang rapes: Outrage over police 'discrimination'

There is outrage over police inaction in a village in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh where two teenage girls were gang raped and hanged from a tree.

The father of one victim said he was ridiculed by policemen when he sought help in finding his missing daughter.

He said when the policemen found out he was from a lower caste, they "refused to look for my girl".

At least three men, including one policeman, have been arrested in connection with the incident.

The victims' families have complained that police had refused to help find the missing girls, aged 14 and 16.

India has numerous castes and divisions among them run deep. Violence is often used by upper castes to assert power and instil fear in lower castes.

Police said two men had been arrested for the gang rape and murder of the two girls, who were cousins from a low caste.

A constable was also detained for conspiring with the suspects and for dereliction of duty, authorities said, adding they were looking for one more suspect and one constable.

"[When I went to register a complaint to the police station about my missing daughter] the first thing I was asked was my caste. When they found out that I came from a low caste, they shooed me away and refused to look for the girls," the father of one of the victims told the BBC.

He said instead of helping him, the police "helped the accused as both were of the same caste".

Though both the victim and the accused belonged to a caste grouping 'Other Backward Classes', the victims were placed lower in the caste hierarchy.

Senior police official Atul Saxena said there would be a "thorough investigation" into the allegations of caste discrimination by the police.

People in Katra Shahadatganj, a village of 10,000 people in Badaun district where the incident took place, say caste "plays an important role in social affairs" in the community.

Rape cases that have shocked India

    23 January 2014: Thirteen men held in West Bengal in connection with the gang rape of a woman, allegedly on orders of village elders who objected to her relationship with a man
    4 April 2014: A court sentences three men to hang for raping a 23-year-old photojournalist in Mumbai last year
    15 January 2014: A Danish woman is allegedly gang raped after losing her way near her hotel in Delhi
    17 September 2013 : Five youths held in Assam for allegedly gang-raping a 10-year-old girl
    4 June 2013: A 30-year-old American woman gang-raped in Himachal Pradesh
    30 April 2013: A five-year-old girl dies two weeks after being raped in Madhya Pradesh
    16 December 2012: Student gang raped on Delhi bus, sparking nationwide protests and outrage

A neighbour of one of the victim said the police "discriminated" against people from the lower castes in the village.

"Even though the police has suspended some constables, the ones who replace them would not be any better, they would discriminate too," he said.

"People from our caste are poor and illiterate and do not get employed in positions of power and influence."

Mr Saxena denied that caste biases played any part in "influencing police behaviour" in the state.

"The police follows its rule book and considers all criminals equal before the law. There might be one or two cases like this one and we will make sure that the culprit doesn't go scot-free," he said.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 30, 2014, 05:11:24 AM
Maybe police officers should only be recruited from the lowest caste... 


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fb%2Fb2%2FUntouchables_1959.jpg&hash=cf1b1315022aa9348e20a7d6e77b91d25ba44059)

QuoteIndian politician's 'accidental rape' remark adds to rising public anger

A minister from the ruling party of the Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, has said rapes happen "accidentally", amid renewed outrage over attacks against women.

In the latest controversial remarks by a politician, Ramsevak Paikra, the home minister of central Chhattisgarh state, who is responsible for law and order, said on Saturday that rapes did not happen on purpose.

"Such incidents [rapes] do not happen deliberately. These kind of incidents happen accidentally," Paikra, of the Bharatiya Janata party (BJP), which also rules at the national level, told reporters.

Paikra, who had been asked for his thoughts on the gang-rape and hanging of two girls in a neighbouring state, later said he had been misquoted. His original remarks were broadcast on television networks. The remarks come just days after Babulal Gaur, the home minister of the BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh state, said about rape: "Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong". Gaur made the remarks on Thursday amid growing anger over the gang-rape and murder of the girls, aged 12 and 14, in the northern Uttar Pradesh state late last month.

Modi, whose party came to power in a landslide election victory, has so far stayed silent over the rapes.

India brought in tougher laws last year against sexual offenders after the fatal gang-rape of a student in New Delhi in December 2012, but they have failed to stem the tide of violence against women across the country.

The chief minister in Uttar Pradesh, Akhilesh Yadav, already under fire over his handling of the double gang-rape, accused the victim's families of coming under the influence of a rival political party. Yadav also hinted that his government had taped phone calls between the families and a politician from the Bahujan Samaj party (BSP).

"We have phone records of a BSP MLA [member of the state legislative assembly]  ... The BSP asked them [the families] to return the compensation offered by the state," Yadav told the Hindustan Times in an interview published on Sunday.

The brother of one of the victims dismissed Yadav's claims, saying the family was not "under the influence of any party, including the BSP".

Yadav's father, Mulayam Singh – leader of the Samajwadi party – was the target of public anger in April when he told an election rally that he opposed the recently introduced death penalty for gang-rapists, saying "boys make mistakes". Women's groups criticised the comments as evidence that politicians were unable to stem sexual violence because they lacked respect for India's women and were ignorant of the issues.

The uproar came as police said a 30-year-old Malaysian woman was raped in a car last Thursday in the western state of Rajasthan. The woman was drugged and raped by a man that she had met to discuss business projects – the latest in a series of sex attacks on foreigners in India.

"As she came to us, we rounded up the accused and placed him under arrest. We have seized his car and also recovered a pistol from the vehicle," Amandeep Singh, a senior state police official, told AFP on Sunday.

Earlier this year, a Danish tourist was gang-raped at knifepoint after losing her way in central Delhi.

Politicians also came under fire after the fatal gang-rape in Delhi in 2012, a crime that angered the nation and shone a global spotlight on India's treatment of women. Several politicians have sought to blame the rise in the number of rapes on western influences such as short skirts and tight jeans, while the head of a village council pointed to fast food, which he claimed led to hormone imbalances among men.

Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2014, 10:10:38 AM

QuoteSeveral politicians have sought to blame the rise in the number of rapes on western influences such as short skirts and tight jeans, while the head of a village council pointed to fast food, which he claimed led to hormone imbalances among men.

Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2014, 10:14:36 AM

Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2014, 10:10:38 AM

QuoteSeveral politicians have sought to blame the rise in the number of rapes on western influences such as short skirts and tight jeans, while the head of a village council pointed to fast food, which he claimed led to hormone imbalances among men.

Poor men.  Forced to rape by the evil West.

Quote from: Grey Fox on June 09, 2014, 01:36:40 PM
Eh I agree with him, he's right. Solution is that is damn fucked up society needs to adapt and teaches their young men and women, gender equality.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 09, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
McDonalds=rape culture!

I knew it! I'm lovin' it!

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 09, 2014, 02:23:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 09, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
McDonalds=rape culture!

I knew it! I'm lovin' it!

QuoteMob sex assaults on women overshadow Egyptian inauguration
By Salma Abdelaziz, CNN
June 9, 2014 -- Updated 2315 GMT (0715 HKT)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

    Five women sexually assaulted at Egypt's inaugural festivities, anti-violence group says
    Interior Ministry says several officers trying to rescue women also were wounded
    Police arrest seven men Monday on charges of sexual harassment

(CNN) -- Uniformed Egyptian police pull a woman in nothing but her underclothes from a frenzied mob.

"Get back boy! Get back!" the officers say as one lifts his pistol into the air.

Large patches of skin on the victim appear bloodied and raw as she struggles to walk toward a police van with hordes of men still fighting for a handful of her body.

Moments later, she falls to the ground, naked. Police carry her into the vehicle, seemingly incapable of thwarting the crowd.

In the background, revelers set off fireworks and wave flags to celebrate the inauguration of Egypt's new president.

This is just one of at least five mob sexual assaults that took place in Cairo's Tahrir Square on Sunday, according to the "I Saw Harassment" campaign, which documents sexual violence against women in Egypt. The attack is shown in a less than two-minute viral cell phone video that CNN cannot independently verify, but which activists say appears to match the details of an attack.

"It is shameful that the security leaders of the Ministry of Interior did not take into account any security measures or plans to prevent such incidents," a statement from the "I Saw Harassment" campaign reads. "Junior officers and individuals were left alone to face sexual harassment groups without any tools or plans."

Four of the five victims sexually assaulted in the square required medical attention, the "I Saw Harassment" campaign said. The attacks against them were so ferocious that several officers deployed to rescue the women were themselves wounded by the crowd, according to a statement from the Interior Ministry on Monday.

Police arrested seven men Monday on charges of sexual harassment after two women filed police reports and identified their attackers, an Interior Ministry spokesman said. Video of one of the assaults was posted on YouTube and the video is a part of the ongoing investigation, said another official from the Interior Ministry, who was not authorized to speak to the media.

The response by authorities did little to squelch anger on social media channels, where many criticized the authorities and criticized local media for a lack of professionalism.

"They are happy, huh?" Maha Bahnassy said laughingly about the crowd on private network Tahrir TV during a live report on harassment from inside the square. Bahnassy publicly apologized Monday, saying her comments were misunderstood.

Activists said the anchorwoman's jarring remarks appeared part of a general trend by Egypt's pro-military factions to sideline the systemic violence against women in favor of glorifying Egypt's new head of state, former army chief Abdel Fattah el-Sisi.

The state-affiliated National Council of Women characterized Sunday night's violence as an orchestrated conspiracy against el-Sisi, saying, "The acts were meant to spoil the joy of Egyptians and their wedding of democracy." The group called on officials to find the "masterminds."

"Every day sexual harassment is a social epidemic affecting everyone, every day. Mob violence is an extreme form of this act that has been normalized by society," said Noora Flinkman, communication manager at HarassMap, a volunteer-based initiative aimed at combating sexual harassment. The group dismissed claims that the attacks were part of an organized political act against the new government.

A 2013 United Nations report from the Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women found that 99.3% of Egyptian women have experienced some form of sexual harassment and more than 82% of female respondents felt unsafe in the street.

The mass attacks come just days after Egypt passed the first law criminalizing sexual harassment, making it punishable by up to five years in prison and a maximum fine of 50,000 Egyptian pounds.

"For a long time harassers have been able to harass with impunity. Now with this amendment to the law it is a good opportunity to take action not just in cases of mob assault but in cases of everyday sexual harassment," Flinkman said. "We are waiting to see what steps the authorities will take."

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 09, 2014, 02:23:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 09, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
McDonalds=rape culture!

I knew it! I'm lovin' it!

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 09, 2014, 02:23:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 09, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
McDonalds=rape culture!

I knew it! I'm lovin' it!

Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
:(

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/indian-minister-rape-remark-anger-violence-women

Quote

Yadav's father, Mulayam Singh – leader of the Samajwadi party – was the target of public anger in April when he told an election rally that he opposed the recently introduced death penalty for gang-rapists, saying "boys make mistakes". Women's groups criticised the comments as evidence that politicians were unable to stem sexual violence because they lacked respect for India's women and were ignorant of the issues.

Quote from: Ideologue on June 09, 2014, 09:17:50 PM

Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
:(

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/indian-minister-rape-remark-anger-violence-women

Quote

Yadav's father, Mulayam Singh – leader of the Samajwadi party – was the target of public anger in April when he told an election rally that he opposed the recently introduced death penalty for gang-rapists, saying "boys make mistakes". Women's groups criticised the comments as evidence that politicians were unable to stem sexual violence because they lacked respect for India's women and were ignorant of the issues.

The irony is that all the bleeding-heart weaklings who (rightly) make such a noise about rape in the U.S. would quail at the prospect of executions.  I don't get the left anymore.  Sometimes I don't know if I ever did.

Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2014, 08:20:44 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 09, 2014, 02:23:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 09, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
McDonalds=rape culture!

I knew it! I'm lovin' it!

:XD:

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 09, 2014, 09:36:27 PM

Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2014, 08:20:44 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 09, 2014, 02:23:27 PM

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 09, 2014, 02:14:45 PM
McDonalds=rape culture!

I knew it! I'm lovin' it!

:XD:

Ba-da-ba-ba-ba

Quote from: Ideologue on June 09, 2014, 09:17:50 PM

Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
:(

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/indian-minister-rape-remark-anger-violence-women

Quote

Yadav's father, Mulayam Singh – leader of the Samajwadi party – was the target of public anger in April when he told an election rally that he opposed the recently introduced death penalty for gang-rapists, saying "boys make mistakes". Women's groups criticised the comments as evidence that politicians were unable to stem sexual violence because they lacked respect for India's women and were ignorant of the issues.

The irony is that all the bleeding-heart weaklings who (rightly) make such a noise about rape in the U.S. would quail at the prospect of executions.  I don't get the left anymore.  Sometimes I don't know if I ever did.

Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2014, 07:59:42 AM
It appears to put gang rapes in the same category as skipping school or getting a JD - a bad choice made by youngsters, rather than a vicious crime.

QuoteIndian police 'gang-rape woman after she fails to pay bribe'

Woman says she was attacked at a police station in Uttar Pradesh after going there to seek her husband's release

An Indian woman has said she was gang-raped by four officers at a police station, the latest in a string of sex attacks in the state of Uttar Pradesh.

The woman said she was attacked when she went to the station overnight on Monday in the Hamirpur district to seek her husband's release.

"At 11.30pm when there was no one in the room the sub-inspector took me to his room and raped me inside the police station," the woman told CNN-IBN.

She filed a complaint with a senior officer on Wednesday over the attack, which allegedly occurred when she refused to pay a bribe to secure the release of her husband. Virendra Kumar Shekhar, a police official from Hamirpur, said: "The procedure will be followed. The victim has filed a complaint and the guilty will be arrested soon."

Sub-inspector Balbir Singh said a criminal case had been lodged against four officers from the station.

The case is the latest in a string of rapes and murders in Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state, where the chief minister, Akhilesh Yadav, is under growing political pressure over his handling of law and order.

Last month, two girls, aged 12 and 14, were gang-raped and lynched in their village. They were attacked after going into a field to relieve themselves at night because they did not have a lavatory at home.

Their families refused to cut the bodies down from the tree for hours in protest, saying police had failed to take action against the attackers because the girls were from a low caste.

The prime minister, Narendra Modi, , in his first comments on the issue since the hanging of the girls sparked public outrage, on Wednesday urged all politicians to work together to protect women. Modi warned politicians against "politicising rape", saying they were "playing with the dignity of women" in his first speech to parliament since sweeping to power at last month's election.

India brought in tougher laws last year against sexual offenders after the fatal gang-rape of a student in New Delhi in December 2012, but they have failed to stem the tide of violence against women.

Also on Wednesday, a 45-year-old woman was found hanging from a tree in Uttar Pradesh. Her family said she had been raped and murdered. A police officer said five men were being questioned over the incident, which occurred several kilometres from her home in Bahraich district. "They [her husband and son] have alleged that the woman, before being strung up from the tree, was raped and murdered by these men," the district superintendent Happy Guptan told AFP.

Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2014, 09:35:26 AM

Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2014, 07:59:42 AM
It appears to put gang rapes in the same category as skipping school or getting a JD - a bad choice made by youngsters, rather than a vicious crime.

:lol:

Quote10-Year-Old Raped On Village Headman's Order In Jharkhand

Bokaro, Jharkhand:  On Tuesday evening, a 10-year-old girl was dragged from her home, as the entire village watched, to a nearby forest, where she was raped by a 25-year-old man.

The child was raped on the orders of a self-appointed headman of a remote village in Jharkhand's Bokaro district. He decreed that she be raped as revenge for her older brother's alleged attempt at molesting her assaulter's sister. 

The man had complained to the headman, alleging that on Monday night, the girl's brother tried to molest his sister.

A medical test has confirmed that the minor was raped. Her father, a farmer, was out for work when she was dragged out of her home. Her mother, who was in the house, mutely accepts that her daughter was raped on orders of the headman, who appropriates that title by virtue of being the chief of a dominant caste in the village

The headman has been arrested, as has the rape survivor's brother and the man who assaulted her. Jharkhand Police spokesperson Anurag Gupta told NDTV, "FIRs have been filed from both sides. We have arrested three people. I have instructed the state police to file a chargesheet in the case as soon as possible."

Not many villagers are willing to speak on camera, but they say that almost the entire village was witness to the ghastly crime. Locals say they did not intervene because of the clout of the headman. The police admitted that headman is a very feared man whose word is law in the area.

QuoteIndia rebuffs 'simplistic' U.N. criticism over sex crimes

(Reuters) - India has rebuffed accusations by a U.N. investigator that sex crimes are rife in the world's biggest democracy, calling her analysis "simplistic" and full of "sweeping generalizations".

India's large northern state of Uttar Pradesh has seen a wave of violence and sex crimes, including the rape and murder of two girls aged 12 and 14, which stirred national outrage.

The United Nations special rapporteur on violence against women, Rashida Manjoo, said violence against women was systematic and continued "from womb to tomb" in a report submitted to the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva.

"According to numerous interlocutors, the physical, sexual and psychological abuse of women in the private sphere is widely tolerated by the State and the community," Manjoo wrote.

In its response, posted on the Council's website on Thursday, India called that allegation "baseless". It said she had made "unsubstantiated yet sweeping generalizations".

"We do not agree with the labeling of 'violence against women in India as systematic'," India said. "Such a sweeping remark smacks of a highly prejudiced state of mind."

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Wednesday that respecting and protecting women should be a priority for the 1.25 billion people in India. "The government will have to act," Modi said, breaking his silence on the crime wave. [ID:nL4N0OS2WI]

Manjoo, a South African law professor, said India should try to raise awareness of practices such as acid attacks against women who refuse a marriage proposal, so-called honor crimes where family members murder a woman because they believe she has dishonored them for example by opposing an arranged marriage, as well as executions of women branded as "witches".

Her report ranged from decrying degrading tests used on rape victims to urging India to define marital rape as a criminal offence and to repeal a law that criminalized consensual same-sex behavior.

On honor killings, the government said it gave "due consideration" to an Indian Law Commission report that had suggested a legal framework to tackle the practice.

It said "witch-hunts" were not a national phenomenon and complaints were always investigated. It said Manjoo should have informed the government if she knew of specific cases where there had been a complaint but no investigation.

India's response to Manjoo's report listed 16 allegations that it said were not backed up by facts.

The examples it gave included her claim that sexual violence was widespread across the country, that members of the security forces had committed mass rapes, that trafficking of women and girls to and from India was widespread, and that police and officials discriminated against people from certain castes.

Quote from: Grallon on July 11, 2014, 11:11:58 AM
Multiculturalism dictate we have to accept this as culturally relevant.  And besides who are we to judge - just look at the terrible history of the West and its list of unending crimes!

Quote from: Maximus on July 11, 2014, 11:40:11 AM

Quote from: Grallon on July 11, 2014, 11:11:58 AM
Multiculturalism dictate we have to accept this as culturally relevant.  And besides who are we to judge - just look at the terrible history of the West and its list of unending crimes!

No, that's not what multiculturalism dictates.

Quote from: Maximus on July 11, 2014, 11:40:11 AM

No, that's not what multiculturalism dictates.

QuoteIn many ways a contested concept, multiculturalism is used in at least three senses: to refer to a society that is characterized by ethnic or cultural heterogeneity; to refer to an ideal of equality and mutual respect among a population's ethnic or cultural groups; and to refer to policies implemented by the federal government in 1971 and subsequently by a number of provinces.

Quote from: Norgy on July 11, 2014, 02:25:13 PM
That definition says nothing about respecting 3rd world villagers and rape, but an equal footing in a population.  :outback:

QuoteI Was Molested In The Delhi Metro, And Here's Why I Refused To Suffer In Silence

...

As I positioned myself close to the exit door I felt a sense of unease run through my body, like someone has pierced their gaze on me or someone is watching me. Suddenly I felt something touch me from behind. With half my mind on trying to get off at the next station, I turned thinking it was someone's bag or hand touching me repeatedly. But in stead I saw a man in a white kurta (long shirt) staring right at me and he had no bags or luggage. In fact, both his hands were clenching the railing next to him. But if both his hands were up there, what was it that... I got my answer as soon as I lowered my sight. There, beneath that long shirt I could clearly see that this man was unzipped. I felt the blood rush to my head, boiling and fuming and the fury ran through every nerve in my body.

Within that fraction of a second, every single eve teasing incident and every darn face of those guys who had the guts to molest someone I knew, flashed in my mind. Before I knew it, my voice escaped my lungs and there I was, screaming at the man who dared to mess with me.

'Kya problem hai?' (What is your problem?)
'Kya samjh rakha hai saale?' (What the hell do you think?)
'Himmat kaise huyi teri?' (How dare you?)

These were some of the things I uttered looking right into his eyes. He was startled and started blabbering that he is sorry and insisted that it was his hand that touched me by mistake. Your 'hand' that comes out from your pants? How the hell was your zip open? I was screaming in a coach full of men and women. Did anyone come forward to help or even displayed basic courtesy to ask me what was wrong? The answer was a big unsurprising no. In fact, I turned and spotted two men smirking at me. Their silence tried my patience and all hell broke loose.

I held that (namesake) man's collar and dragged him out of the train. He was on a loop mode 'It was my hand, it was a crowded train'. The moment we set foot at the platform he managed to escape. I ran, with all the strength and courage in me, I ran after him making as much noise as I could. A few saw (the tamasha), the others gasped while one man in uniform began to chase him. I went towards the other side and we managed to get hold of him. I yelled again "How dare you? How did you dare to touch me? People like you make Delhi a nightmare for girls? You make us question every time before we step a foot outside. How dare you?"

...

As we took him to the control room he told the police that I am mistaken, it was his hand that touched me by mistake and it could happen to anyone because it was a crowded train. "Ask her... it was my hand", he said. 15 guards, all men turned towards me as he tried to shame me. But if he had the guts to do it I had the spine to say it. You see anger brings out the strength you never thought you had in you but in my case, anger brought out a language I never thought I could use. I was outright and I had all the right to be – "Lift up that kurta and you will know exactly what touched me". There. I said it out loud and clear. The guards felt outraged and charged at him. Within seconds he begged for an apology and suddenly the hand in question transformed into a part of his body he wished he never had. "Why would this girl lie? After all she is taking the blame on herself", said the police officer to the criminal in front of me. He committed the crime, I raised my voice and yet somehow the shame was on me. That statement reflected the thought process of our society, in fact it said much more. I argued with the officer and told the man in question that I have lost nothing in this entire episode and in fact I will make him pay for this. He immediately begged for an apology and I instead, insisted to file an FIR. After a few calls, 5 friends of mine reached the station to back me up and how? They were equally angered and showed no mercy.
...

QuoteDelhi bus rapist blames his victim in prison interview

In an interview from jail, Mukesh Singh says women who go out at night have only themselves to blame if they attract the attention of gangs of male molesters

One of the group of Indian men convicted of the notorious Delhi gang rape of 2012 has prompted outrage by claiming that his victim was to blame for her brutal sexual assault and murder.
In an interview from jail, Mukesh Singh said that women who went out at night had only themselves to blame if they attracted the attention of gangs of male molesters. "A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy," he said.

His victim, Jyoti Singh, 23, was returning from an evening at the cinema with a male friend when the six-strong gang offered them a lift in a mini-bus they were driving. She was raped and frenziedly beaten with iron bars, prompting widespread demonstrations for Indian women to have greater protection from sexual violence.

In an interview for a BBC documentary, Singh also claimed that had Jyoti and her friend not tried to fight back, the gang would not have not have inflicted the savage beating, which led her to die from her injuries two weeks later.

Describing the killing as an "accident", he said: "When being raped, she shouldn't fight back. She should just be silent and allow the rape. Then they'd have dropped her off after 'doing her', and only hit the boy."

The interview, which BBC Four will air on its Storyville programme to coincide with International Womens' Day this Sunday, will be seen by women's rights groups as compelling evidence of the appalling attitudes shown by many Indian men towards women.

While the Indian courts made a harsh example of the gang, passing death sentences that are now otherwise rarely used, campaigners say that otherwise not enough has changed.
Singh, a slum-dweller who was 26 at the time of the attack, was driving the bus when the abduction occurred.

He denied involvement in the attack itself, but his claims were rejected by the court, which said there was strong DNA evidence against him, and that even if he had not taken part, he should have intervened.

But while the judge said that the case had "shocked the collective conscience" of India, Singh appears to show little remorse.

"You can't clap with one hand – it takes two hands," he says in the interview. "A decent girl won't roam around at 9 o'clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy. Boy and girl are not equal. Housework and housekeeping is for girls, not roaming in discos and bars at night doing wrong things, wearing wrong clothes. About 20 per cent of girls are good."

Singh, whose death sentence is currently on appeal, also claims that executing him and the other convicted rapists will endanger future rape victims.

"The death penalty will make things even more dangerous for girls," he says. "Before, they would rape and say, 'Leave her, she won't tell anyone.' Now when they rape, especially the criminal types, they will just kill the girl. Death."

The lawyers who defended the gang in court express similarly extreme views about women who venture out at night. In a previous televised interview, lawyer AP Singh said: "If my daughter or sister engaged in pre-marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight."

In the BBC documentary, he adds that his stance has not changed: "This is my stand. I still today stand on that reply."

Another defence lawyer who acted in the case, ML Sharma, says: "In our society, we never allow our girls to come out from the house after 6:30 or 7.30 or 8.30 in the evening with any unknown person."

Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2015, 03:06:12 AM
Seems like someone who can be killed off without worrying if he could be redeemed.

What's up with taking all of India to task over the babblings of a criminal though?

Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 03, 2015, 03:07:28 AM

Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2015, 03:06:12 AM
Seems like someone who can be killed off without worrying if he could be redeemed.

What's up with taking all of India to task over the babblings of a criminal though?

It's a bit troubling when a licensed lawyer agrees with his babbling.

Quote from: Syt on March 03, 2015, 12:32:16 AM
Words fail me.

Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2015, 09:55:31 AM
I am not sure we can be too judgmental about horrifying sexual assault attitudes.  However not even the most barbarous Neanderthal over here would want to light a girl on fire for being raped so I guess we have that going for us.

Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2015, 09:55:31 AM
I am not sure we can be too judgmental about horrifying sexual assault attitudes.

QuoteHowever not even the most barbarous Neanderthal over here would want to light a girl on fire for being raped so I guess we have that going for us.

Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2015, 10:07:25 AM
I know it is traditionally a Sikh name but over the centuries maybe it spread to the other religious groups?