Situation: One of my sister's friends (who is a real nasty slut) just had a baby. My sister's friend is white and her boyfriend is black. She claims the baby is his (but really has it narrowed down to three people). I saw a picture of the baby and it's lilly white. My sister and my brother say that that when one parent is black and one is white that half the time the baby comes out white and the other half comes out black. I said that works for flowers not people (well it doesn't work exactly like that but I didn't want to get in to a discussion about Mendelian genetics). I said that baby will almost always be a mixture of the two and will be considered black. I also thought the boyfriend dodged a bullet (his family seemed to suspect this might happened and asked for a paternity test before the baby was born). Now I full recognize that I'm bat shit crazy and prone to being wrong. So am I wrong or right?
(oh and my sister also suggest that the baby may start out white but get black after a few days). I never heard of that.
Oh and and I know Grumbler doesn't believe in race but in clades. But I hope he gets the general idea what I'm talking about.
It works for flowers just as it works for people.
From my understanding it's possible that the black dude might still be the dad and have a white baby like that. However, in most cases the baby would be a mocha coloured mixture.
Return to sender
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fphotos-ak-sf2p%2Fv258%2F242%2F58%2F500058217%2Fn500058217_475499_8354.jpg&hash=5d73f496f6df41b1af2cdf0c66f89d44cf7eb551)
Later:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fphotos-ak-snc1%2Fv2313%2F242%2F58%2F500058217%2Fn500058217_1331537_2050.jpg&hash=4f16af754146cfa4106d86b74396420bffc04fe0)
Some half-breeds:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.askmen.com%2Fgalleries%2Factress%2Fthandie-newton%2Fpictures%2Fthandie-newton-picture-6.jpg&hash=4164f02775e7559d62feb25cf36ff95855fa797e)
Thandie Newton
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.pricegrabber.co.uk%2Fgottahave%2Ffiles%2F2009%2F01%2Fbarack-obama-2.jpg&hash=a200c67cff8594054238a3372c1af325b7e4dc3a)
some guy
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collider.com%2Fuploads%2FimageGallery%2FRashida_Jones%2Frashida_jones_image__2_.jpg&hash=14a7d60157f8512b3961fc4b957aecc0959db2c2) Rashida + Kidada Jones (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_QXXHIPJhypQ%2FRu3zGL_Oc1I%2FAAAAAAAABP0%2F5f876NDrWdA%2Fs1600%2FKidada65urtuJones-vi.jpg&hash=05c9aa1526752c9a9d4efbc9e10daaab92d435db)
The kid may be half black, but it's 100% white trash :contract:
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 02:24:55 AMOh and and I know Grumbler doesn't believe in race but in clades. But I hope he gets the general idea what I'm talking about.
I know a mixed couple (she's French, he's Cape Verdian). Their first kid was REALLy dark skinned ("Seal" dark), the second was whiter than milk.
Funnily enough they live in the US and they registered both kids as "African American" :D
Kevin
Quote from: Martinus on May 01, 2009, 02:26:33 AM
It works for flowers just as it works for people.
Not quite. Mendelian genetics only work for certain traits. Usually more things are more complex ( more than a single gene is involved, etc).
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 04:06:57 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 02:24:55 AMOh and and I know Grumbler doesn't believe in race but in clades. But I hope he gets the general idea what I'm talking about.
I know a mixed couple (she's French, he's Cape Verdian). Their first kid was REALLy dark skinned ("Seal" dark), the second was whiter than milk.
Funnily enough they live in the US and they registered both kids as "African American" :D
Kevin
Cape Verde is in Africa. :contract:
*Yes, I know it is a group of islands, but a group of islands off the coast of Africa.
Is mixed sex even legal in the US?
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 04:29:08 AMCape Verde is in Africa. :contract:
*Yes, I know it is a group of islands, but a group of islands off the coast of Africa.
No shit Captain Obvious. <_<
I was amused by the fact that they registered the white kid as African-American.
Kevin
Strom Thurmond had nigger babies.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2009, 04:57:44 AM
Strom Thurmond had nigger babies.
I always thought it was Strom Thrumond
ate nigger babies.
But your's makes more sense.
Usually they are of mixed complexion, yes. My boss's daughter is half-white, half-black and she has some black features, and some white ones, but her skin tone is right in the middle between the two norms.
Also, FB is an expert on the literal question Raz put into the thread title. :ph34r:
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 06:45:27 AM
Also, FB is an expert on the literal question Raz put into the thread title. :ph34r:
Thanks for the recognition. :mad:
Asshole. :cry:
Exqueeze me?
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 07:12:28 AM
Exqueeze me?
I fucked a black chick. I want my 15 minutes of fame. I want a PARADE. :mad:
Also, Ed Anger is an expert on the literal question Raz put into the thread title. :ph34r:
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2009, 07:15:55 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 07:12:28 AM
Exqueeze me?
I fucked a black chick. I want my 15 minutes of fame. I want a PARADE. :mad:
You've always had a black eye for the ladies. :perv:
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 07:24:15 AM
Also, Ed Anger is an expert on the literal question Raz put into the thread title. :ph34r:
Thank you.
Also, I claim expertise on:
Indians (Slurpee Indian, not buffalo indian)
Slavs (some yugoslav chick)
French
Canadian
Wop
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2009, 07:28:31 AM
Indians (Slurpee Indian, not buffalo indian)
Did she: smell like curry :(
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 07:29:24 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2009, 07:28:31 AM
Indians (Slurpee Indian, not buffalo indian)
Did she: smell like curry :(
Both were totally Americanized. So they were familiar with "soap" and "deodorant"
:( I'm having tater and chickpea curry for lunch today. Curry smell makes me: hungy :cool:
Not nearly as embarassing as the friend of my wife's sister who had her first baby with definite half-Black features ... when her fiancee was Chinese.
Actual science answer. Colour is determined by a total of eight genes which can be combined in any quantity from each parent, thus they could be all white, all black or anything in between.
One mixed-race couple had two pairs of one black and one white twins.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg5.imageshack.us%2Fimg5%2F425%2Fblackandwhitetwinstwice.jpg&hash=a7828c7b1be353f82134dae7138040a1102bdcf0) (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackandwhitetwinstwice.jpg)
My wife is part Irish but thankfully Tommy displays no obvious signs of Irishness.
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 08:50:19 AM
Actual science answer. Colour is determined by a total of eight genes which can be combined in any quantity from each parent, thus they could be all white, all black or anything in between.
One mixed-race couple had two pairs of one black and one white twins.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg5.imageshack.us%2Fimg5%2F425%2Fblackandwhitetwinstwice.jpg&hash=a7828c7b1be353f82134dae7138040a1102bdcf0) (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackandwhitetwinstwice.jpg)
Damn. Beat me to it. I was going to point out the amazing cross-race twins. :D
2007 we had an audit by a fat black New York native who spoke - besides work - of nothing but food. He told us that his wife would be giving birth soon, though. He sent a picture of him (dark as a Nigerian), his wife (white, natural blonde), baby (whiter and blonder than the mother).
We were all:
:unsure:
As said yeah, it is possible for a mixed couple to have a kid who is black as night/lilly white.
With African-Americans there's also a lot of white genes in there so I'd guess it could be even more likely with one of them involved as opposed to a full black person.
edit- ditto also with white Americans to a lesser extent.
So I wasn't right? :(
When my nephew/godson was about 6 months old, everyone said he looked more like me than my brother :blush:
Thankfully for all involved, he looks more like his dad now.
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 03:58:25 AM
The kid may be half black, but it's 100% white trash :contract:
:lol:
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 04:42:36 AM
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 04:29:08 AMCape Verde is in Africa. :contract:
*Yes, I know it is a group of islands, but a group of islands off the coast of Africa.
No shit Captain Obvious. <_<
I was amused by the fact that they registered the white kid as African-American.
Kevin
Don't you know about the one drop rule?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
Not nearly as embarassing as the friend of my wife's sister who had her first baby with definite half-Black features ... when her fiancee was Chinese.
:pinchL
Has anyone noticed that the pinch face has an L on the end and not a :
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 08:50:19 AM
Actual science answer. Colour is determined by a total of eight genes which can be combined in any quantity from each parent, thus they could be all white, all black or anything in between.
One mixed-race couple had two pairs of one black and one white twins.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg5.imageshack.us%2Fimg5%2F425%2Fblackandwhitetwinstwice.jpg&hash=a7828c7b1be353f82134dae7138040a1102bdcf0) (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackandwhitetwinstwice.jpg)
I thought the girl was Indian.
Quote from: DontSayBanana
Damn. Beat me to it. I was going to point out the amazing cross-race twins. :D
:lol:
Me too!
Quote from: derspiess on May 01, 2009, 08:58:42 AM
My wife is part Irish but thankfully Tommy displays no obvious signs of Irishness.
Wait till you drive by a potato field...
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 09:45:41 AMDon't you know about the one drop rule?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
I do, and I think it's stupid.
Kevin
Has anyone checked to see if those twins have the same father?
Quote from: Korea on May 01, 2009, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
Not nearly as embarassing as the friend of my wife's sister who had her first baby with definite half-Black features ... when her fiancee was Chinese.
:pinchL
Allegedly, an amazing domestic scene broke out in the delivery room.
Way we heard the story the first time, was that Chinese Guy had booted his fiancee out of his house (he had money) right after she gave birth. We all assumed he was a pig and a jerk. Until this tiny added detail came to light, which makes it more explicable.
He took her back though, and she has another kid. We assume it's his. At least, the other kid isn't half-Black.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 01, 2009, 09:52:05 AM
Has anyone checked to see if those twins have the same father?
No-- it's always best to leave a sensational story alone ;)
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 09:51:25 AM
I do, and I think it's stupid.
Kevin
Join the club. If it were valid I'd be danish. I have one danish ancestor 16 generations ago :(
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 10:00:22 AMJoin the club. If it were valid I'd be danish. I have one danish ancestor 16 generations ago :(
You could be American. They absolutely LOVE to detail where they ancestors come from. :lol:
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 10:00:22 AMJoin the club. If it were valid I'd be danish. I have one danish ancestor 16 generations ago :(
You could be American. They absolutely LOVE to detail where they ancestors come from. :lol:
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Kevin
What if you've always lived in America and do speak the language?
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:05:40 AM
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Kevin
Fuck off, Celto-Roman.
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: Korea on May 01, 2009, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
Not nearly as embarassing as the friend of my wife's sister who had her first baby with definite half-Black features ... when her fiancee was Chinese.
:pinchL
Allegedly, an amazing domestic scene broke out in the delivery room.
Way we heard the story the first time, was that Chinese Guy had booted his fiancee out of his house (he had money) right after she gave birth. We all assumed he was a pig and a jerk. Until this tiny added detail came to light, which makes it more explicable.
He took her back though, and she has another kid. We assume it's his. At least, the other kid isn't half-Black.
People are amazing creatures. Jeez.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 10:18:10 AM
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 10:00:22 AMJoin the club. If it were valid I'd be danish. I have one danish ancestor 16 generations ago :(
You could be American. They absolutely LOVE to detail where they ancestors come from. :lol:
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Kevin
What if you've always lived in America and do speak the language?
Check the passport. And if the person doesn't have a passport he is probably American.
Quote from: Korea on May 01, 2009, 10:23:34 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: Korea on May 01, 2009, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
Not nearly as embarassing as the friend of my wife's sister who had her first baby with definite half-Black features ... when her fiancee was Chinese.
:pinchL
Allegedly, an amazing domestic scene broke out in the delivery room.
Way we heard the story the first time, was that Chinese Guy had booted his fiancee out of his house (he had money) right after she gave birth. We all assumed he was a pig and a jerk. Until this tiny added detail came to light, which makes it more explicable.
He took her back though, and she has another kid. We assume it's his. At least, the other kid isn't half-Black.
People are amazing creatures. Jeez.
Not really.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 10:00:22 AMJoin the club. If it were valid I'd be danish. I have one danish ancestor 16 generations ago :(
You could be American. They absolutely LOVE to detail where they ancestors come from. :lol:
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Kevin
We settler cultures all value our heritage. Anyways, the one Danish woman predates the Pilgrims.
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 10:28:23 AM
We settler cultures all value our heritage. Anyways, the one Danish woman predates the Pilgrims.
Predating is important - it lets you know what to expect when you do go out.
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:19:47 AMFuck off, Celto-Roman.
It just pisses me off when I hear people referring to the Irish or Italian (or whatever) communities in some American state or another. Whatever link these guys had is long dead and they're just perpetuating some kind of fossilised version of a culture.
I can understand keeping track of you origins (we all do it), but this is more akin to pathetically clinging on to something long dead. Seriously, back in the 80s' and 90s' the IRA was funded mainly by Irish Americans when the majority of REAL Irish people (in Eire) just wanted peace. WTF was that all about?
Do people think that because they keep an Irish flag and drink pints on St Paddy's they're Irish?
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:05:40 AM
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Kevin
Note to self: self-identify as German-American whenever Echoshade joins a thread.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:32:12 AM
Do people think that because they keep an Irish flag and drink pints on St Paddy's they're Irish?
Kevin
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:19:47 AMFuck off, Celto-Roman.
It just pisses me off when I hear people referring to the Irish or Italian (or whatever) communities in some American state or another. Whatever link these guys had is long dead and they're just perpetuating some kind of fossilised version of a culture.
I can understand keeping track of you origins (we all do it), but this is more akin to pathetically clinging on to something long dead. Seriously, back in the 80s' and 90s' the IRA was funded mainly by Irish Americans when the majority of REAL Irish people (in Eire) just wanted peace. WTF was that all about?
Do people think that because they keep an Irish flag and drink pints on St Paddy's they're Irish?
Kevin
Ethnicity is mostly subjective. People are what they self-identify as. There aren't any rational rules for this, and no-one is really "in charge" of deciding whose identity is "real" and whose is not.
Very often these contrasting identities cause problems, but the solution isn't to convince one group that they aren't really who they think they are.
The exception is those who have taken on an identity as a deliberate sham, in bad faith (see "Jews for Jesus" :D ).
Also, people tend to have more than one way of measuring identity, depending on whom they are contrastisng with.
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
Still is a very American complex if you ask me.
I might be out on a limb here, but it feels like Americans don't feel like being "American" is a legitimate identity. :huh:
Kevin
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
Emigrated to Canada.
Is this really a thread?
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AMWhat happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
Yeah, you guys would all speak German if it wasn't for us <_<
Kevin
PS: it feels so good to say this after the gazillion times I've heard Americans say it to us :P
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
They are the un-hyphenated Americans.
And yes. Irish-Americans annoy me greatly. Especially when they decide to come over all anti-British with a hilariously wrong, black and white version of history.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:45:01 AM
Still is a very American complex if you ask me.
I might be out on a limb here, but it feels like Americans don't feel like being "American" is a legitimate identity. :huh:
Kevin
I don't think it is, America is too big for that.
Do you think French-Guiana people feel that they are French?
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:19:47 AMFuck off, Celto-Roman.
It just pisses me off when I hear people referring to the Irish or Italian (or whatever) communities in some American state or another. Whatever link these guys had is long dead and they're just perpetuating some kind of fossilised version of a culture.
I can understand keeping track of you origins (we all do it), but this is more akin to pathetically clinging on to something long dead. Seriously, back in the 80s' and 90s' the IRA was funded mainly by Irish Americans when the majority of REAL Irish people (in Eire) just wanted peace. WTF was that all about?
Do people think that because they keep an Irish flag and drink pints on St Paddy's they're Irish?
Kevin
Here's a helpful tip for you Eochaid - why don't you call yourself whatever you want, and let other people call themselves whatever they want. What a stupid thing to get upset over. If I self-identify as being Ukrainian-Canadian despite 5 generations living in Canada in what possible way does it upset you?
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:45:01 AM
I might be out on a limb here, but it feels like Americans don't feel like being "American" is a legitimate identity. :huh:
Kevin
I think the hyphenated American thing is done more out of fun than anything else. Self-identifying that way gives you an excuse to indulge in those ethnic stereotypes (i.e., go out & get pissed drunk on St. Patty's Day), and in another sense, it's a lazy way of exploring your genealogy.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2009, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:19:47 AMFuck off, Celto-Roman.
It just pisses me off when I hear people referring to the Irish or Italian (or whatever) communities in some American state or another. Whatever link these guys had is long dead and they're just perpetuating some kind of fossilised version of a culture.
I can understand keeping track of you origins (we all do it), but this is more akin to pathetically clinging on to something long dead. Seriously, back in the 80s' and 90s' the IRA was funded mainly by Irish Americans when the majority of REAL Irish people (in Eire) just wanted peace. WTF was that all about?
Do people think that because they keep an Irish flag and drink pints on St Paddy's they're Irish?
Kevin
Here's a helpful tip for you Eochaid - why don't you call yourself whatever you want, and let other people call themselves whatever they want. What a stupid thing to get upset over. If I self-identify as being Ukrainian-Canadian despite 5 generations living in Canada in what possible way does it upset you?
It's silly and typically American to state you are something other than you are. ;)
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
Two wars happened.
cue "Battle of New Orleans" by Johnny HortonAnyway, we carried on the language & even went to the trouble of perfecting it for you. Plus WASP culture was the dominant culture for most of our nation's history :)
Through the wonders of Wikipedia, I have now learned that the correct term for a asian/negro half-breed is apparently, "Blasian".
I am now pondering what to do next.
Poke my eyes out with a pen, or never ever open up Wikipedia again.
I cannot decide.
Quote from: Slargos on May 01, 2009, 10:57:11 AM
Through the wonders of Wikipedia, I have now learned that the correct term for a asian/negro half-breed is apparently, "Blasian".
I am now pondering what to do next.
Poke my eyes out with a pen, or never ever open up Wikipedia again.
I cannot decide.
:unsure:
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2009, 10:49:44 AMHere's a helpful tip for you Eochaid - why don't you call yourself whatever you want, and let other people call themselves whatever they want. What a stupid thing to get upset over. If I self-identify as being Ukrainian-Canadian despite 5 generations living in Canada in what possible way does it upset you?
But I will... as soon as people stop funding terrorism (mostly done!) and circulating outdated stereotypes.
When living in Vancouver, I had the following conversation with some git:
Git: You English?
Me: Yes, I'm British.
Git: What do you think about the end of the war in Ireland?
Me: Excuse me?
Git: Yeah, I'm Irish!
Me: Where from?
Git: Boston!
Me: Oh, OK... I gotta go.
Git: <insert rant about Northern Ireland>
To use the example of Irish-Americans, they are to Irish people what emos are to Goths or what skaters are to punks: a watered-down annoyance.
Kevin
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
Less drinking then. Plus, they run the place.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:45:01 AM
Still is a very American complex if you ask me.
I might be out on a limb here, but it feels like Americans don't feel like being "American" is a legitimate identity. :huh:
Kevin
It isn't. American is a membership in a group that acknowledges, by definition, that one came (or is descended from) people who came from elsewhere. Added to this are national myths that allow both assimilation and ethnic maintenance, you get something that is different (and apparently quite annoying and scary to others).
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 11:05:14 AMIt isn't. American is a membership in a group that acknowledges, by definition, that one came (or is descended from) people who came from elsewhere. Added to this are national myths that allow both assimilation and ethnic maintenance, you get something that is different (and apparently quite annoying and scary to others).
It's not scary. Listening to an American go on about his ancestry, whenever he gets the slightest chance, is like being friends with a hobbit.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 11:09:34 AM
It's not scary. Listening to an American go on about his ancestry, whenever he gets the slightest chance, is like being friends with a hobbit.
Kevin
Didn't say it was scary to you, but it IS scary to people who firmly believe, despite evidence of it happening in the US, that furrin deevils can and do integrate when in a system that does not demand them to pretend to be something they are not and allows them to pretend to be what they are not of their own choosing.
Quote from: Tyr on May 01, 2009, 10:47:32 AM
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
They are the un-hyphenated Americans.
what about "Web Saxons" (many of them are Americans) who like to dis Billy Bastard and everything that came after in a very Lettowist fashion?
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2009, 10:49:44 AM
Here's a helpful tip for you Eochaid - why don't you call yourself whatever you want, and let other people call themselves whatever they want. What a stupid thing to get upset over. If I self-identify as being Ukrainian-Canadian despite 5 generations living in Canada in what possible way does it upset you?
The Euro still fiercely defends his ethnicity. Any claims by the cultureless colonists threatens the purity of the tribe.
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
Is this really a thread?
Are you really in my thread? Get out, shoo. This is a no garbon zone.
Good point Raz, I was just thinking that the American poring over his ancestry and mathoms is preferable to the Euro with an ethnic purity thing.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 11:59:01 AM
The Euro still fiercely defends his ethnicity. Any claims by the cultureless colonists threatens the purity of the tribe.
This is what I often think when confronted with that complaint. Sometimes it's not the case, but it is far more often than I would consider palatable.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 12:01:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
Is this really a thread?
Are you really in my thread? Get out, shoo. This is a no garbon zone.
Well, to be fair, he is a cautionary tale...
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 01, 2009, 12:02:27 PM
Good point Raz, I was just thinking that the American poring over his ancestry and mathoms is preferable to the Euro with an ethnic purity thing.
I think it is actually the opposite. People are immigrating to Europe en masse and have been for decades. At least that's true for Germany. I find it equally silly for ethnic Turks who are in the country for the 3rd generation, speak German as their mother tongue, likely have a German passport and have no connection to Turkey whatsoever to refer to themselves as Turks.
Russo-Germans are the same. These people came from Russia becuase there they were Germans, now here they are Russians. People need a place to belong. If they share the culture, the language, the passport, they should just refer tom themselves as members of the country they belong to.
It's far beyond the tribal level. You or your ancestors have chosen a country to live in, so be a citizen of that country. If you wanna be Irish, go live in Ireland.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 11:59:01 AMThe Euro still fiercely defends his ethnicity. Any claims by the cultureless colonists threatens the purity of the tribe.
It's not about purity of any kind.
Anyone legally coming to the UK (or France), willing to settle down and learn English/French is welcome; regardless of where he originally comes from. I don't give a flying fuck about "ethnic purity" (the mere concept is an aberration anyway).
Kevin
Actually a great many of our ancestors didn't have a choice. Some came in chains, some because of persecution and some because of starvation. Most people, given the choice would rather stay home then travel across the sea and settle in a new land.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:05:40 AM
Helpful tip for Americans: if you've always lived in America and don't speak the language, you're not [insert supposed nationality]. Pisses me off each and every time.
Really? I am Scottish, then.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 12:01:06 PM
Are you really in my thread? Get out, shoo. This is a no garbon zone.
You posted a threat about my demographic and thought I wouldn't post? :yeahright:
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:32:12 AM
It just pisses me off when I hear people referring to the Irish or Italian (or whatever) communities in some American state or another. Whatever link these guys had is long dead and they're just perpetuating some kind of fossilised version of a culture.
I can understand keeping track of you origins (we all do it), but this is more akin to pathetically clinging on to something long dead. Seriously, back in the 80s' and 90s' the IRA was funded mainly by Irish Americans when the majority of REAL Irish people (in Eire) just wanted peace. WTF was that all about?
Do people think that because they keep an Irish flag and drink pints on St Paddy's they're Irish?
I think most of the people you are slamming in this post would acknowledge that they are "Irish-Americans" and that "Irish-Americans" differ from the Irish. But who is going to go around saying "Irish-American" all day? It's too cumbersome.
I have strong German roots which I love to research, but I do not consider myself a "German". I barely understand German at all and the German I understand is Pennsylvania Dutch, which is quite different from modern German.
But I think it's silly and bizarre for someone to get worked up over my interest in geneaology. It reminds me of Christian losers obsessing over what gay people do in their personal lives.
Quote from: syk on May 01, 2009, 12:11:10 PM
I think it is actually the opposite. People are immigrating to Europe en masse and have been for decades. At least that's true for Germany. I find it equally silly for ethnic Turks who are in the country for the 3rd generation, speak German as their mother tongue, likely have a German passport and have no connection to Turkey whatsoever to refer to themselves as Turks.
Russo-Germans are the same. These people came from Russia becuase there they were Germans, now here they are Russians. People need a place to belong. If they share the culture, the language, the passport, they should just refer tom themselves as members of the country they belong to.
It's far beyond the tribal level. You or your ancestors have chosen a country to live in, so be a citizen of that country. If you wanna be Irish, go live in Ireland.
I think citizenship and identity are two very different things.
Quote from: grumbler on May 01, 2009, 12:25:13 PM
I think citizenship and identity are two very different things.
:grr: I'm an african citizen!
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2009, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 12:01:06 PM
Are you really in my thread? Get out, shoo. This is a no garbon zone.
You posted a threat about my demographic and thought I wouldn't post? :yeahright:
Please don't feed the troll.
Nobody gets to claim threads as "my thread." Responding in this fashion just feeds raz's delusion that he is God-Emperor of threads he happens to start.
Quote from: syk on May 01, 2009, 12:11:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 01, 2009, 12:02:27 PM
Good point Raz, I was just thinking that the American poring over his ancestry and mathoms is preferable to the Euro with an ethnic purity thing.
I think it is actually the opposite. People are immigrating to Europe en masse and have been for decades. At least that's true for Germany. I find it equally silly for ethnic Turks who are in the country for the 3rd generation, speak German as their mother tongue, likely have a German passport and have no connection to Turkey whatsoever to refer to themselves as Turks.
Russo-Germans are the same. These people came from Russia becuase there they were Germans, now here they are Russians. People need a place to belong. If they share the culture, the language, the passport, they should just refer tom themselves as members of the country they belong to.
It's far beyond the tribal level. You or your ancestors have chosen a country to live in, so be a citizen of that country. If you wanna be Irish, go live in Ireland.
I'm sure most of the people you mention do consider themselves "German", but they do have substantial connections as well to Russia or Turkey. Your Turkish-German probably grew up eating different food, going to a different religious building, with different customs and habits. While they probably have a sense of Germanness, there's no disputing they'll have a different experience than Hans from Bavaria.
So I'll go back to - what harm does it do to anyone if your average Turkish-German likes to eat kababs, goes to mosque and likes to watch Turkey play in international soccer?
Quote from: grumbler on May 01, 2009, 12:26:50 PM
Please don't feed the troll.
Nobody gets to claim threads as "my thread." Responding in this fashion just feeds raz's delusion that he is God-Emperor of threads he happens to start.
:Embarrass:
Quote from: Razgovory on May 01, 2009, 12:13:42 PM
Actually a great many of our ancestors didn't have a choice. Some came in chains, some because of persecution and some because of starvation. Most people, given the choice would rather stay home then travel across the sea and settle in a new land.
Others was given a one-way ticket, just becourse he had made 2 local girls pregnant in less than 3 mdrs. Again others was given a one-way ticket at the age of twelve, just becourse it was more convenient for the family...
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2009, 12:27:12 PM
I'm sure most of the people you mention do consider themselves "German", but they do have substantial connections as well to Russia or Turkey. Your Turkish-German probably grew up eating different food, going to a different religious building, with different customs and habits. While they probably have a sense of Germanness, there's no disputing they'll have a different experience than Hans from Bavaria.
So I'll go back to - what harm does it do to anyone if your average Turkish-German likes to eat kababs, goes to mosque and likes to watch Turkey play in international soccer?
It doesn't do any harm at all, its cool as it is. I was going for that example because I think people on one hand want to belong to a group (in this case a country including citizenship) and on the other hand want to be special, to stick out of the mass (being "Irish" or Turkish").
Quote from: grumbler on May 01, 2009, 12:25:13 PM
I think citizenship and identity are two very different things.
see above.
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2009, 10:24:53 AM
Quote from: Korea on May 01, 2009, 10:23:34 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: Korea on May 01, 2009, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 01, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
Not nearly as embarassing as the friend of my wife's sister who had her first baby with definite half-Black features ... when her fiancee was Chinese.
:pinchL
Allegedly, an amazing domestic scene broke out in the delivery room.
Way we heard the story the first time, was that Chinese Guy had booted his fiancee out of his house (he had money) right after she gave birth. We all assumed he was a pig and a jerk. Until this tiny added detail came to light, which makes it more explicable.
He took her back though, and she has another kid. We assume it's his. At least, the other kid isn't half-Black.
People are amazing creatures. Jeez.
Not really.
Animals are pretty amazing too.
Quote from: syk on May 01, 2009, 12:39:51 PM
It doesn't do any harm at all, its cool as it is. I was going for that example because I think people on one hand want to belong to a group (in this case a country including citizenship) and on the other hand want to be special, to stick out of the mass (being "Irish" or Turkish").
People want to belong, but they also want to be special. That's quite the innovative analysis Syk. :P
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2009, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: syk on May 01, 2009, 12:39:51 PM
It doesn't do any harm at all, its cool as it is. I was going for that example because I think people on one hand want to belong to a group (in this case a country including citizenship) and on the other hand want to be special, to stick out of the mass (being "Irish" or Turkish").
People want to belong, but they also want to be special. That's quite the innovative analysis Syk. :P
Just add one line of thought. Then the point is, calling yourself Irish or whatever when you're not is a vain thing and thus silly.
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 12:24:36 PMBut I think it's silly and bizarre for someone to get worked up over my interest in geneaology. It reminds me of Christian losers obsessing over what gay people do in their personal lives.
I don't mind if you have a passion in genealogy. In fact I think it's kind of cool, being interested in genealogy myself.
What I do mind is people who believe that:
1. They absolutely HAVE to detail their family tree any time you discuss anything related to European countries
2. They use their 1/32 [insert european ethnicity/nationality/native American nation] to say irrelevant stuff about something they are not connected to.
3. Belonging to a culture is just going through the clichés of a culture they believe froze 150 years ago?
I mean seriously. Imagine you go to, lets say, China. You meet this Chinese guy who tell you that his great-great-great grandfather was American and moved to China for whatever reason. And he obviously is "American" because every now and then he eats hot-dogs around a campfire, rides a horse on a ranch and says racist stuff about "redskins". Wouldn't you want to tell the guy that he's just a walking cliché and there's a little more to being American that junk food and John Wayne?
The guy is a poser. He's just a walking cliché and he is offensive to you, even if unwittingly, by reducing something real, deep and very much alive to platitudes.
And I think we'll agree that Irish-Americans who financed the IRA "to defend their Homeland" are a bunch of tossers
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 01:24:39 PM
I mean seriously. Imagine you go to, lets say, China. You meet this Chinese guy who tell you that his great-great-great grandfather was American and moved to China for whatever reason. And he obviously is "American" because every now and then he eats hot-dogs around a campfire, rides a horse on a ranch and says racist stuff about "redskins". Wouldn't you want to tell the guy that he's just a walking cliché and there's a little more to being American that junk food and John Wayne?
The guy is a poser. He's just a walking cliché and he is offensive to you, even if unwittingly, by reducing something real, deep and very much alive to platitudes.
And I think we'll agree that Irish-Americans who financed the IRA "to defend their Homeland" are a bunch of tossers
Kevin
I would think it rather neat that the Chinese guy feels that connection to America. It's obviously real to him, although I'd want to correct him about the natives.
I'll agree that anyone financing terrorism is a tosser though.
Americans are ethnic mongrels. Anyone who's not is either a recent immigrant or lives in an enclave whose loyalty is suspect.
Of course, a lot of us like to make affectations based around that German great-grandmother of ours.
Quote from: Tyr on May 01, 2009, 10:47:32 AM
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
They are the un-hyphenated Americans.
And yes. Irish-Americans annoy me greatly. Especially when they decide to come over all anti-British with a hilariously wrong, black and white version of history.
26 + 6 = 1
It seems like Eochaid's dislike is mostly related to people who make foolish decisions based on their (real or imagined) ethnic origins, a sentiment I whole-heartedly agree with... and I think anyone sensible would. The IRA funding issue is a great example of that, and just so y'all know alot of ethnic Irish/persons of Irish descent in Boston were horrified by that.
The point about cultures evolving is a good one, but I think it's quite useful that people preserve their heritage for that very reason. For example, nearly all of the ancestors of the Pennsylvania Dutch had migrated to the region by 1750. Therefore, their variant of German (which itself was an admixture of various Alsatian, Palatine, Swabian, and Swiss dialects) diverged at that time and evolved separately. So I think anyone who studies the German language should be thankful the Pennsylvania Dutch have preserved it, because it's got to be very useful in understanding what grammatical forms, pronunciations, etc. changed when. If the Pennsylvania Dutch were all like "hey, fuck this German shit, we're UH-MURRICAN now!!!111" this information wouldn't be available.
Similarly, Pennsylvania Dutch religion and cuisine have evolved independently of Germany since the mid-18th century, so I'm sure there is useful information there as well.
No one cares about the Pennsylvania Dutch.
I liked the one genealogy family site that claimed one of their dude's had a family connection to one of the two Spartan royal families.
THIS IS FAMILY TREE MAKER!
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2009, 02:26:13 PM
No one cares about the Pennsylvania Dutch.
:mad:
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2009, 02:26:13 PM
No one cares about the Pennsylvania Dutch.
:mad:
We'll always have our secret love of shoofly pie.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2009, 02:30:18 PMWe'll always have our secret love of shoofly pie.
Chess pie > shoofly pie.
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 02:31:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2009, 02:30:18 PMWe'll always have our secret love of shoofly pie.
Chess pie > shoofly pie.
I want a divorce. :mad:
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2009, 02:33:03 PM
Truth sucks, no?
You is raciss. Nobody cares about the BLACKS. :P
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 02:35:03 PM
You is raciss. Nobody cares about the BLACKS. :P
Obama does. :wub:
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 02:25:11 PM
It seems like Eochaid's dislike is mostly related to people who make foolish decisions based on their (real or imagined) ethnic origins, a sentiment I whole-heartedly agree with...
So basically he's dissing Seedy.
Hmm. I'm Irish-American. I don't speak Irish, but on the other hand, neither do most people in Ireland.
And yeah, Americans who gave to the IRA should be taken out and shot.
Quote from: dps on May 01, 2009, 04:34:09 PM
Hmm. I'm Irish-American. I don't speak Irish, but on the other hand, neither do most people in Ireland.
And yeah, Americans who gave to the IRA should be taken out and shot.
IT WAS TO BUY POTATOES.
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 01, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
Nope, they think they are Irish-Americans. There is a sense that if you don't know where you came from (even if invented, like most family histories) you don't know who you are.
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
English-, Scottish- and Scots-Irish-Americans usually just call themselves Americans.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 12:24:36 PMBut I think it's silly and bizarre for someone to get worked up over my interest in geneaology. It reminds me of Christian losers obsessing over what gay people do in their personal lives.
I don't mind if you have a passion in genealogy. In fact I think it's kind of cool, being interested in genealogy myself.
What I do mind is people who believe that:
1. They absolutely HAVE to detail their family tree any time you discuss anything related to European countries
2. They use their 1/32 [insert european ethnicity/nationality/native American nation] to say irrelevant stuff about something they are not connected to.
3. Belonging to a culture is just going through the clichés of a culture they believe froze 150 years ago?
I mean seriously. Imagine you go to, lets say, China. You meet this Chinese guy who tell you that his great-great-great grandfather was American and moved to China for whatever reason. And he obviously is "American" because every now and then he eats hot-dogs around a campfire, rides a horse on a ranch and says racist stuff about "redskins". Wouldn't you want to tell the guy that he's just a walking cliché and there's a little more to being American that junk food and John Wayne?
The guy is a poser. He's just a walking cliché and he is offensive to you, even if unwittingly, by reducing something real, deep and very much alive to platitudes.
And I think we'll agree that Irish-Americans who financed the IRA "to defend their Homeland" are a bunch of tossers
Kevin
All of your descriptions of Americans ring so false that I, for one, believe none of them. :cool:
That is the penalty that all zealots face, so don't feel singled out.
All Americans are special.
New question : When a white person has sex with a black person, can they ever go back to having sex with other white people?
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 01:04:21 AM
New question : When a white person has sex with a black person, can they ever go back to having sex with other white people?
Ask your mom?
:P
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 01:04:21 AM
New question : When a white person has sex with a black person, can they ever go back to having sex with other white people?
No
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fz.about.com%2Fd%2Fcrime%2F1%2F0%2F3%2FT%2Fsimpson_oj.jpg&hash=dd01003f2495d01ac3edad6ded055f780b87c4da)
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 01, 2009, 07:15:55 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 07:12:28 AM
Exqueeze me?
I fucked a black chick. I want my 15 minutes of fame. I want a PARADE. :mad:
It's all pink inside.
Fahdiz wouldn't like black chicks' feet, though. Especially since they can grip stuff with them, like tree branches.
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2009, 03:43:01 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 01, 2009, 02:25:11 PM
It seems like Eochaid's dislike is mostly related to people who make foolish decisions based on their (real or imagined) ethnic origins, a sentiment I whole-heartedly agree with...
So basically he's dissing Seedy.
That's OK, my dislike for Europeans is mostly related to people who:
1) know what the fuck a Wallon is; and,
2) actually care.
Europe = African tribalism with better roads.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 05:34:04 AM
That's OK, my dislike for Europeans is mostly related to people who:
1) know what the fuck a Wallon is; and,
2) actually care.
Europe = African tribalism with better roads.
Nah, outside of the balkans they've done a much better job of ethnic cleansing and gotten rid of most population enclaves.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 10:45:01 AM
Still is a very American complex if you ask me.
Identifying with an ethnic group is totally American? If only that was true the history of the old world would be very different.
At least over here it is totally voluntary and mostly just done for fun and nobody gets ethnically cleansed or slaughtered because of it...we reserve that for important stuff like skin color.
Quote from: Brazen on May 01, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
What happened to all the English-Americans? And why don't they celebrate St George's day?
We English-Americans are the true Americans.
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 01:13:34 AM
Her boyfriend is white. :x
And so are you! I have decided to observe the one drop rule.
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 11:55:01 AM
And so are you! I have decided to observe the one drop rule.
There is no reverse one drop rule.
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 12:12:57 PM
There is no reverse one drop rule.
Oh yes there is. We white people are not breeding enough so I have just instituted it to keep our numbers up.
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 12:18:31 PM
Oh yes there is. We white people are not breeding enough so I have just instituted it to keep our numbers up.
Sorry, but it won't work. White gets washed out. :)
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 12:22:24 PM
Sorry, but it won't work. White gets washed out. :)
I am just enjoying the fact we have another white man in the White House.
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 12:22:24 PM
Sorry, but it won't work. White gets washed out. :)
Our genes are weak. :(
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 12:23:48 PM
I am just enjoying the fact we have another white man in the White House.
Say stuff like that and you'll get called racist. ^_^
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 12:50:54 PM
Say stuff like that and you'll get called racist. ^_^
Is taking pride in my people really racist? :(
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 12:50:54 PM
Say stuff like that and you'll get called racist. ^_^
Is taking pride in my people really racist? :(
Google "white pride" and find out :P
Quote from: derspiess on May 04, 2009, 01:03:12 PM
Google "white pride" and find out :P
I think I would rather gauge my own eyes out than google that. :lol:
Gauge? What gauge do you think your eyeballs are? You might have to gouge them out to measure them properly.
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 04, 2009, 01:03:12 PM
Google "white pride" and find out :P
I think I would rather gauge my own eyes out than google that. :lol:
Gouge. "Gauge" sounds like you are measuring how far apart your eyes are.
An action which many a White Power type ought to do, given that having eyes set too close together is supposedly a sign of inbreeding. :D
Quote from: Jacob on May 04, 2009, 01:09:07 PM
Gauge? What gauge do you think your eyeballs are? You might have to gouge them out to measure them properly.
What I meant to say is that I would rather gouge my own eyes out and then carefully calculate what gauge of shotgun I would need to use them as ammunition than google 'white pride'.
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: Eochaid on May 01, 2009, 04:42:36 AM
Quote from: Viking on May 01, 2009, 04:29:08 AMCape Verde is in Africa. :contract:
*Yes, I know it is a group of islands, but a group of islands off the coast of Africa.
No shit Captain Obvious. <_<
I was amused by the fact that they registered the white kid as African-American.
Kevin
Don't you know about the one drop rule?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
\
Amazing read.
I didn't know it was that complex.
So, according to the one-drop-rule, all the children product of jewish intermarry, are actually jewish?
I thought the whiteys were stealing those kids.
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 06:23:30 PM
So, according to the one-drop-rule, all the children product of jewish intermarry, are actually jewish?
I thought the whiteys were stealing those kids.
L2R
QuoteThe one-drop rule is a historical colloquial term in the United States that holds that a person with any trace of African ancestry is considered black
L2R?
Left to Right?
Lower to Reverse?
Lick to Raise?
Love To Run?
Love The Rum?
Linked To Russia?
Live To Ram?
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 06:23:30 PM
So, according to the one-drop-rule, all the children product of jewish intermarry, are actually jewish?
I thought the whiteys were stealing those kids.
Check out those Nuremberg Laws as well, any person with one Jewish great-grandparent is Jewish him-/herself.
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 06:30:45 PM
L2R?
Left to Right?
Lower to Reverse?
Lick to Raise?
Love To Run?
Love The Rum?
Linked To Russia?
Live To Ram?
I hate how you never cease to fail me.
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 06:17:27 PM
Amazing read.
I didn't know it was that complex.
It only mattered back in the Jim Crow days when they had segregation. Figuring out who was black so they could be lynched and treated badly was something people spent alot of time worrying about.
Now race is pretty arbitrary....not that the one drop rule wasn't.
Now, the question in my mind is, was it the same in all the other british colonies?
In the rest of the englishspeaking world, when there was intersex, did the mixed children go back into a the general black population?
That goes a long way explaining why african-americans are brown, instead of black as the africans are.
Also, it might be the root of british supremacy.
The french, spanish and portuguese allowed mixed children to inherit and into positions of power in the colonies, bringing all that un-european cultural bagage into their ruling classes.
There have to be a reason why the ex-british colonies are among the richest countries in the world, why the ex-french, spanish and portuguese colonies are among the poorest.
I don't believe in race but I do believe in culture, and there is a marked diference between the latin-american culture and the european, while the ex-british colonies have a culture very similar to Europe. And by culture I especially refer to the national actitudes toward work ethics and political corruption (everybody steals in latin-america), national tolerance for crime, drugs, black market, etc, and their lack of national identity.
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 07:01:47 PM
It only mattered back in the Jim Crow days when they had segregation. Figuring out who was black so they could be lynched and treated badly was something people spent alot of time worrying about.
Now race is pretty arbitrary....not that the one drop rule wasn't.
My work had an Indian potluck today. I opted out of making an Indian dish so as not to confuse. -_-
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 11:34:07 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 05:34:04 AM
That's OK, my dislike for Europeans is mostly related to people who:
1) know what the fuck a Wallon is; and,
2) actually care.
Europe = African tribalism with better roads.
Nah, outside of the balkans they've done a much better job of ethnic cleansing and gotten rid of most population enclaves.
:huh: You say it like it's some kind of positive.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 04, 2009, 08:22:19 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 11:34:07 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 05:34:04 AM
That's OK, my dislike for Europeans is mostly related to people who:
1) know what the fuck a Wallon is; and,
2) actually care.
Europe = African tribalism with better roads.
Nah, outside of the balkans they've done a much better job of ethnic cleansing and gotten rid of most population enclaves.
:huh: You say it like it's some kind of positive.
It is.
I want real mod powers.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
I want real mod powers.
My advice:
Open the offending user's profile.
Select 'Issue a Warning' under the 'Actions' menu on the left-hand side of the screen.
Quote from: Neil on May 04, 2009, 09:35:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
I want real mod powers.
My advice:
Open the offending user's profile.
Select 'Issue a Warning' under the 'Actions' menu on the left-hand side of the screen.
If he has same permissions as me, we don't have that option :D
Quote from: katmai on May 04, 2009, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 04, 2009, 09:35:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
I want real mod powers.
My advice:
Open the offending user's profile.
Select 'Issue a Warning' under the 'Actions' menu on the left-hand side of the screen.
If he has same permissions as me, we don't have that option :D
Try now.
:thumbsup:
The power to restrict our freedoms?
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
The power to restrict our freedoms?
:whistle:
:ph34r:
:menace:
Traitor.
You used to be one of us.
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
The power to restrict our freedoms?
What freedoms?
Quote from: Viking on May 05, 2009, 07:06:32 AM
Quote from: Neil on May 05, 2009, 06:45:31 AM
Quote from: Siege on May 04, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
The power to restrict our freedoms?
What freedoms?
To build and operate Dreadnaughts?
Nobody have that kind of money to waste.
Somebody invented aircrafts, and Dreadnaughts became obsolete overnight.
Hell, even before that, an italian torpedo-boat sunked an Austrian Dreadnaught.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 05:34:04 AMThat's OK, my dislike for Europeans is mostly related to people who:
1) know what the fuck a Wallon is; and,
2) actually care.
Europe = African tribalism with better roads.
Actually, its Walloon, not Wallon.
We inherited our tribalism, are dealing with it and actually managed to create the EEC right after World War 2, thank you very much.
How's your fake imported tribalism going, now that you've genocided Native Americans? ;)
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 03:40:33 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 04, 2009, 05:34:04 AMThat's OK, my dislike for Europeans is mostly related to people who:
1) know what the fuck a Wallon is; and,
2) actually care.
Europe = African tribalism with better roads.
Actually, its Walloon, not Wallon.
We inherited our tribalism, are dealing with it and actually managed to create the EEC right after World War 2, thank you very much.
How's your fake imported tribalism going, now that you've genocided Native Americans? ;)
Kevin
Nice and safe, on bumperstickers and t-shirts, right where it's supposed to be.
Look out behind you! It's a Jew!
Lolz, just kidding. It wasn't a Jew, just a gypsy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2009, 05:16:28 AMLook out behind you! It's a Jew!
Lolz, just kidding. It wasn't a Jew, just a gypsy.
Amarta Amarta... ;)
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 03:40:33 AM
Actually, its Walloon, not Wallon.
So, you concede that you don't know what a Wallon is?
QuoteWe inherited our tribalism, are dealing with it and actually managed to create the EEC right after World War 2, thank you very much.
How's your fake imported tribalism going, now that you've genocided Native Americans? ;)
Kevin
I am willing to bet that there are more "Native Americans" in the US than there are Jews in Europe. :contract:
Seems to me that you are not managing your tribalism well at all, whereas the tribes in the US, while not necessarily wealthy, at least haven't been shoved into ovens by the millions.
Quote from: grumbler on May 06, 2009, 09:03:37 AMI am willing to bet that there are more "Native Americans" in the US than there are Jews in Europe. :contract:
Seems to me that you are not managing your tribalism well at all, whereas the tribes in the US, while not necessarily wealthy, at least haven't been shoved into ovens by the millions.
Yay, another pointless debate with shaky comparisons. We were talking about nationalism, not religion. Jews never were a territorial power in Europe and never held sway over any significant tracts of land.
Godwin point goes to Grumbler :D
Anyway lets talk numbers!
European Jewish population in 1933: circa 9.5 million.
European Jewish population in 1945: circa 3.5 million.
Conservative estimated Native population in Northern America in 1492: circa 20 million
Native population in Northern America in 1890: circa 250,000.
Now that we've dealt with this remarkably unrelated topic, lets go back to my point: in the past 65 years Europe has come a long way, mostly putting petty nationalism aside. The mere fact that Arkestra and I aren't in the Somme shooting at Syt while Martinus is oppressed by Russians is a good illustration of that point.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 09:17:00 AM
Conservative estimated Native population in Northern America in 1492: circa 20 million
Native population in Northern America in 1890: circa 250,000.
Um...yeah disease pandemics along with intermarriage is absolutely the same as mass genocide. Thanks Marty.
QuoteNow that we've dealt with this remarkably unrelated topic, lets go back to my point: in the past 65 years Europe has come a long way, mostly putting petty nationalism aside. The mere fact that Arkestra and I aren't in the Somme shooting at Syt while Martinus is oppressed by Russians is a good illustration of that point.
Yeah I agree...I just do not get why actual ethnic tensions are fine to you but some American pretending to be Irish and having a beer on St. Pats day is so offensive.
And anyway ethnic tensions are still very dangerous throughout Africa and Asia it is hardly a Euro thing, it is a scourge in the entire old world.
Quote from: Valmy on May 06, 2009, 09:28:24 AMYeah I agree...I just do not get why actual ethnic tensions are fine to you but some American pretending to be Irish and having a beer on St. Pats day is so offensive.
And anyway ethnic tensions are still very dangerous throughout Africa and Asia it is hardly a Euro thing, it is a scourge in the entire old world.
Of course ethnic tensions are a widespread problem. Most people and countries have to deal with pre-existing problems, doesn't it seem a little stupid for Americans to create divisions just for shites and giggle? Especially when they're kindling old tensions in Europe.
Besides, I hate posers. Fake [Ethnic]-Americans are like people who brag about how lethal they are in a fight when in fact they're yellow belts in Karate (and not the good female blond type that sexes you for three days and gives you money). Or people who pretend they were in the Army when all they did was be in the Territorial Army.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 09:37:23 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 06, 2009, 09:28:24 AMYeah I agree...I just do not get why actual ethnic tensions are fine to you but some American pretending to be Irish and having a beer on St. Pats day is so offensive.
And anyway ethnic tensions are still very dangerous throughout Africa and Asia it is hardly a Euro thing, it is a scourge in the entire old world.
Of course ethnic tensions are a widespread problem. Most people and countries have to deal with pre-existing problems, doesn't it seem a little stupid for Americans to create divisions just for shites and giggle? Especially when they're kindling old tensions in Europe.
Besides, I hate posers. Fake [Ethnic]-Americans are like people who brag about how lethal they are in a fight when in fact they're yellow belts in Karate (and not the good female blond type that sexes you for three days and gives you money). Or people who pretend they were in the Army when all they did was be in the Territorial Army.
Kevin
Kevin,
Would you make a distinction between ____-Americans who *do* have connection with their ancestry, etc and those who
claim to be _______-American and yet make no attempt to learn the language, travel, etc? I would think there's a massive
difference between the Irish-American who actually knows about Ireland and has been there, and the guy who gets loaded
on St. Patrick's Day, picks fights with English people for fun, and has a shamrock tattoo on his person.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 06, 2009, 09:48:11 AMKevin,
Would you make a distinction between ____-Americans who *do* have connection with their ancestry, etc and those who
claim to be _______-American and yet make no attempt to learn the language, travel, etc? I would think there's a massive
difference between the Irish-American who actually knows about Ireland and has been there, and the guy who gets loaded
on St. Patrick's Day, picks fights with English people for fun, and has a shamrock tattoo on his person.
I do make a difference, as I explained in one of my previous posts. I only loathe the latter group.
Kevin
OK, I hadn't seen that post, and your meaning wasn't clear to me from the information I had available.
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 09:17:00 AM
Yay, another pointless debate with shaky comparisons. We were talking about nationalism, not religion. Jews never were a territorial power in Europe and never held sway over any significant tracts of land.
Yay, another clueless debater who runs away when his insults are turned against him. The Jews of europe were not exterminated because of their religious practices, they were exterminated due to European tribalism and its need to find scapegoats.
QuoteGodwin point goes to Grumbler :D
You really need to learn what Godwin's Law has to say. There is no "Godwin point' of which I am aware.
QuoteAnyway lets talk numbers!
European Jewish population in 1933: circa 9.5 million.
European Jewish population in 1945: circa 3.5 million.
Conservative estimated Native population in Northern America in 1492: circa 20 million
Native population in Northern America in 1890: circa 250,000.
Ah, the old "make up numbers which have nothing to do with the issue at hand" gambit. :lmfao:
Here are the relevant numbers:
Native Americans in 2000 census: 4.3 million
Current Jewish population in Europe (including all of Russia): 2.0 million (est)
Even if the estimate is low by 100%, my point is still made. :contract:
QuoteNow that we've dealt with this remarkably unrelated topic, lets go back to my point: in the past 65 years Europe has come a long way, mostly putting petty nationalism aside. The mere fact that Arkestra and I aren't in the Somme shooting at Syt while Martinus is oppressed by Russians is a good illustration of that point.
I am not sure why you even bothered to mention the US and its natives, if your argument was that Europe has put aside "petty nationalism." I would agree with you that your comment was "remarkably unrelated" to the topic at hand. In fact, I would go further and call it "remarkably trollish."
However, I don't agree that nationalism does not exist except when people are shooting at one another or being oppressed, your your argument fails to persuade due to lack of evidence.
Yes there is a Godwin point. You just won it for bringing up nazi atrocities.
As for numbers, they correspond to start/end dates of genocidal persecutions for both groups. Obviously Americans (and other various predecessors) aren't directly responsible for most of those deaths, but they usually did the best they could to kill their share.
As for 20,000,000 natives in 2009? :lmfao: How do you go from 250,000 to 20,000,000 in 100 years? If anyone with a drop of native blood is native, how convenient.
Of course nationalism exists during peace time, but its kept at reasonable levels. If we stop slaughtering each other and can start a structure like the EU, then I think I can safely say we're moving in the right direction, with nationalisms slowly turning into cultural pride.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 12:07:54 PM
As for 20,000,000 natives in 2009? :lmfao: How do you go from 250,000 to 20,000,000 in 100 years? If anyone with a drop of native blood is native, how convenient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States
He said there were 4.3 million Native Americans and that is supported by census data. Note this is just in the United States not in North America. How do we tell who counts as a Native American? It is self identified.
Also how many people in Mexico and Central America are of Native American descent? Like basically all of them?
I am not sure what you are getting at.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 09:37:23 AM
Of course ethnic tensions are a widespread problem. Most people and countries have to deal with pre-existing problems, doesn't it seem a little stupid for Americans to create divisions just for shites and giggle? Especially when they're kindling old tensions in Europe.
No Americans are creating "divisions" just for shits and giggles.
QuoteBesides, I hate posers. Fake [Ethnic]-Americans are like people who brag about how lethal they are in a fight when in fact they're yellow belts in Karate (and not the good female blond type that sexes you for three days and gives you money). Or people who pretend they were in the Army when all they did was be in the Territorial Army.
I hate the fucking posers as well. Fake ethnics in the US are almost as annoying as fake European "experts" on the US who post on message boards on the internet, spewing crazy crap about how Americans "create divisions just for shites and giggle" because they want to seem knowledgeable. I think the fake experts are worse posers than the fake lethal fighters.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 12:07:54 PM
Yes there is a Godwin point. You just won it for bringing up nazi atrocities.
Gotcha! You brought up the Nazis, you violated Godwins law, so you lose the argument by definition.
QuoteAs for numbers, they correspond to start/end dates of genocidal persecutions for both groups. Obviously Americans (and other various predecessors) aren't directly responsible for most of those deaths, but they usually did the best they could to kill their share.
Your made-up numbers correspond to nothing in the argument.
QuoteAs for 20,000,000 natives in 2009? :lmfao: How do you go from 250,000 to 20,000,000 in 100 years? If anyone with a drop of native blood is native, how convenient.
:lmfao: So what you are saying is that actual US census results must be dismissed because it is implausable that they could be true based on your made-up numbers?
How about we toss the made-up 250,000 number, instead?
QuoteOf course nationalism exists during peace time, but its kept at reasonable levels. If we stop slaughtering each other and can start a structure like the EU, then I think I can safely say we're moving in the right direction, with nationalisms slowly turning into cultural pride.
Time will tell, of course, but the fact is that Europe isn't there yet, and "tribalism" is far stronger in Europe than in the US. So, so sneering at US ethnic "posers" seems a pretty dumb idea when you have actual European ethnic hosers willing to kill for their ethnic beliefs. At least the "posers" are harmless.
Ethnicity is fictive by definition.
Quote from: PDH on May 06, 2009, 12:45:19 PM
Ethnicity is fictive by definition.
Incorrect. Just because something is made up doesn't mean it's not real.
Quote from: PDH on May 06, 2009, 12:45:19 PM
Ethnicity is fictive by definition.
We can't all be North Germanic. :console:
Quote from: PDH on May 06, 2009, 12:45:19 PM
Ethnicity is fictive by definition.
Artificial by definition, yes. Not fictive by definition, though.
Quote from: Neil on May 06, 2009, 12:49:16 PM
Incorrect. Just because something is made up doesn't mean it's not real.
God isn't real, he just has real consequences.
God isn't keepin it real.
He needs to rep where he's from.
Quote from: grumbler on May 06, 2009, 12:38:51 PMYes there is a Godwin point. You just won it for bringing up nazi atrocities.Gotcha! You brought up the Nazis, you violated Godwins law, so you lose the argument by definition.
I didn't say you did. Just said its ridiculous to bring Nazis into this.
QuoteYour made-up numbers correspond to nothing in the argument.
My numbers for Pre-Colonial America come from Charles C. Mann's '1491: The Americas Before Columbus' (and other assorted sources).
My numbers for 1890 come from the official 1890 US census. It is believed though that the number of natives might have been highier due to the difficulty to count some populations.
QuoteSo what you are saying is that actual US census results must be dismissed because it is implausable that they could be true based on your made-up numbers?
How about we toss the made-up 250,000 number, instead?
See above regarding the 1890 stats.
The 1990 census records 1,959,234 Native Americans (including Inuits & Aleuts).
The 2000 census (http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kbr01-15.pdf) allowed people to describe themselves as being part of as many races as they wanted to. In 2000 4,119,301 people described themselves as "
American Indian and Alaska Native alone or in combination with one or more other races" with 2,475,956 of them describing themselves as "purely" Native.
LINK FOR ALL STATS (http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0056/tab01.pdf)
Get your facts rights before you want to start a debate. BTW, just in case you didn't notice, you just been gauged, weighed... and found wanting
QuoteTime will tell, of course, but the fact is that Europe isn't there yet, and "tribalism" is far stronger in Europe than in the US. So, so sneering at US ethnic "posers" seems a pretty dumb idea when you have actual European ethnic hosers willing to kill for their ethnic beliefs. At least the "posers" are harmless.
Hardcore nationalism is a bad which we're trying to stamp out over here. It's an unpleasant inheritance from the past. Posers are fucking morons CREATING a problem.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 04:13:00 PM
I didn't say you did. Just said its ridiculous to bring Nazis into this.
I quite agree - but I didn't even mention the Nazis. You did.
QuoteMy numbers for Pre-Colonial America come from Charles C. Mann's '1491: The Americas Before Columbus' (and other assorted sources).
Oh, I never said that you made up the numbers. Mann's conclusions are not considered especially credible, and for you to refer to his 20 million figure as a "conservative estimate" is downright dishonest. Not even he goes that far! See William Deneven's "consensus" figure (not conservative) in Russell Thornton's
American Indian Holocaust and Survival (1987) which puts the number of Native Americans in North America at less than 10 million. See also David Henige's
Numbers from Nowhere (1998), especially page 83, in which he describes the highest of the high counters, Henry Dobyns, noting that the population of North America (north of the Aztecs, specifically) was only 18 million. How your 20 million can be considered "conservative" when not even the highest of the High Counters would agree with it is clear - the "conservative" label is attached dishonestly. Even if you throw in the Aztecs as "North American" you still end up with only three of the "experts" cited in Thornton (Dobyns, Thornton himself, and Borah) showing populations of over 20 million in North America, and 18 disagreeing.
QuoteMy numbers for 1890 come from the official 1890 US census. It is believed though that the number of natives might have been highier due to the difficulty to count some populations.
The 1890 census only included Indians who had been naturalized. Non-citizen Indians were not counted. Indians didn't become American citizens until 1924.
QuoteSee above regarding the 1890 stats.
See the above regarding the 1890 census.
QuoteThe 1990 census records 1,959,234 Native Americans (including Inuits & Aleuts).
The 2000 census (http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kbr01-15.pdf) allowed people to describe themselves as being part of as many races as they wanted to. In 2000 4,119,301 people described themselves as "American Indian and Alaska Native alone or in combination with one or more other races" with 2,475,956 of them describing themselves as "purely" Native.
Yes, thus demonstrating my point that there are more Native Americans in the US than Jews in Europe!
QuoteGet your facts rights before you want to start a debate. BTW, just in case you didn't notice, you just been gauged, weighed... and found wanting
Since I just owned your ass on this issue, I really don't care about your weighing. It turns out that my facts were correct and pertinent, and yours were dubious, presented dishonestly, and not pertinent even if, for whatever reason, correct.
QuoteHardcore nationalism is a bad which we're trying to stamp out over here. It's an unpleasant inheritance from the past. Posers are fucking morons CREATING a problem.
Since you concede my basic point, I will only note that the only kinds of posers I see creating a problem are those Euro posers pretending an expertise in America that they manifestly lack. The idea that Armenian-Americans are somehow creating Armenia's problems (or whatever it is you so vaguely hint at) is absurd in the extreme.
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 09:17:00 AMYay, another pointless debate with shaky comparisons. We were talking about nationalism, not religion.
No, we're talking about tribalism. And since you've inherited it and are dealing with it, then I'm sure Yugoslavia was just a hiccup, Muslim immigration has been working out fine, and Turkey will be admitted to the EU post-haste.
Quote from: grumbler on May 06, 2009, 05:14:04 PM
I quite agree - but I didn't even mention the Nazis. You did.
Oh so when you were talking about "people" shoving jews into ovens, you were talking about the Muffin Man and his crew?
QuoteSee also David Henige's Numbers from Nowhere (1998), especially page 83, in which he describes the highest of the high counters, Henry Dobyns, noting that the population of North America (north of the Aztecs, specifically) was only 18 million.
North America doesn't stop at the Rio Grande. I included Mexico and left out the Caribbean and everything south of Mexico.
You forgot quite a few high counters BTW, including Denevan.
If you're talking about the USA alone, then I (personally and for what it's worth) put numbers at around 10,000,000 people.
QuoteThe 1890 census only included Indians who had been naturalized. Non-citizen Indians were not counted. Indians didn't become American citizens until 1924.
OK so now you're rejecting the numbers you were accepting two posts ago? Nice way to go.
I agree that the real Native population in 1890 was most probably bigger than what was recodred, butore than doubling the 250,000 figure given by the census would be questionable.
QuoteSee above regarding the 1890 stats.
See the above regarding the 1890 census.
QuoteYes, thus demonstrating my point that there are more Native Americans in the US than Jews in Europe!
You're neatly side-stepping three issues:
a. Defining and counting judaicity
b. How to make a census of jews.
c. Jewish emigration to Israel
a) You only are a jew if your mother is jewish. I myself would be considered jewish if you went by blood, but am not a jew since my mother isn't a jew.
b) Most European countries make it illegal to make a census of people by skin colour, creed or any other related criteria. All numbers are educated guesses at best.
c) A huge number of jews were of course genocided by Nazis during WW2, but a 2,000,000 jews moved to Israel over the past decades.
Altogether if you take "pure jews" and "pure natives" your figures are wrong.
QuoteIt turns out that my facts were correct and pertinent, and yours were dubious, presented dishonestly, and not pertinent even if, for whatever reason, correct.
They were? I must have missed something then, O Great Leader
QuoteSince you concede my basic point, I will only note that the only kinds of posers I see creating a problem are those Euro posers pretending an expertise in America that they manifestly lack. The idea that Armenian-Americans are somehow creating Armenia's problems (or whatever it is you so vaguely hint at) is absurd in the extreme.
I never said the posers were responsible for all of Europe's problems, I said that they were annoying (IMHO), offensive (IMHO) and in SOME cases dangerous. Beyond the occasional lout who'll use his posing to go looking for troubles (see my answer to Anchor) I'm talking about, for example, Irish-Americans being the major source of funding of the IRA (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201943.html).
Now I know you'll probably disagree with anything I might say and I will probably disagree with anything you might say.
How about you think I'm a posing moron, I think you're a moron and we leave it at that?
Kevin
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 06, 2009, 05:25:09 PMNo, we're talking about tribalism. And since you've inherited it and are dealing with it, then I'm sure Yugoslavia was just a hiccup, Muslim immigration has been working out fine, and Turkey will be admitted to the EU post-haste.
Just look at the number and intensity of conflicts on the continent over the past two centuries and you'll see the trend. Yugoslavia is slowly being integrated and will be taken care of.
As for integrating Turkey, I'm in favour but that's open to a democratic debate in the EU.
And our Moslem population says hi.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 05:53:59 PMJust look at the number and intensity of conflicts on the continent over the past two centuries and you'll see the trend. Yugoslavia is slowly being integrated and will be taken care of.
Funny how that all works out once everyone's displaced and dead.
Quote
As for integrating Turkey, I'm in favour but that's open to a democratic debate in the EU.
Translation: "Even though Germany's killing us more, we'll use Turkey's debt as an excuse not to be invited. Yeah, that's it. Debt."
Quote
And our Moslem population says hi.
Really? Funny, with an unemployment rate of 35% for adult Muslim males in France, I thought they were saying "will work for food, insha'allah".
Quote from: CdM on May 06, 2009, 05:53:59 PMFunny how that all works out once everyone's displaced and dead.
Are you suggesting that Jews were somehow blocking European construction or are talking about ex-Yugoslavia? :huh:
If you're talking about the latter, then I think we can agree that the international community (mainly the EU and the USA) failed the Yugoslavs but I don't see what this has to do with
QuoteTranslation: "Even though Germany's killing us more, we'll use Turkey's debt as an excuse not to be invited. Yeah, that's it. Debt."
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Honestly :huh:
QuoteReally? Funny, with an unemployment rate of 35% for adult Muslim males in France, I thought they were saying "will work for food, insha'allah".
Discrimination still is a common thing, but it is slowly decreasing. It is obvious that most EU countries have immigration-related problems, but the same of true of most immigration flows. If you wish we can talk about how unemployment amongst African-Americans is 2.3 times higher than amongst when Americans. I'm not saying that it's worse in the US than in Europe, just that in both cases I'd hardly call this the root of all evil.
Kevin
Quote from: Eochaid on May 06, 2009, 05:51:50 PM
Oh so when you were talking about "people" shoving jews into ovens, you were talking about the Muffin Man and his crew?
I was talking about European tribalism. I didn't make distinctions between tribes.
QuoteNorth America doesn't stop at the Rio Grande. I included Mexico and left out the Caribbean and everything south of Mexico.
Since the Atzecs have nothing to do with American tribalism, I have no idea why you would include them. Remember, your comment was (to CdM): "How's your fake imported tribalism going, now that you've genocided [sic] Native Americans?"
And my response was to that. Seedy didn't "genocide" any Aztecs.
QuoteYou forgot quite a few high counters BTW, including Denevan.
Denevan isn't a High Counter. He is just averaging a bunch of counts, not deriving any numbers himself.
QuoteIf you're talking about the USA alone, then I (personally and for what it's worth) put numbers at around 10,000,000 people.
Since you completely lack cred with me on this, I really don't care what your guess would be.
QuoteOK so now you're rejecting the numbers you were accepting two posts ago? Nice way to go.
I never accepted your bogus "estimate" of the number of Indians in 1890. Nice way to lie.
QuoteI agree that the real Native population in 1890 was most probably bigger than what was recodred, butore than doubling the 250,000 figure given by the census would be questionable.
So now
you are rejecting the numbers
you introduced, right after you
falsely accused
me of rejecting your numbers after accepting them? "boggle:
In any event, now that you have completely conceded my point (even if in a distinctly dishonest way), we can go on to both agree that neither the 1492 numbers nor the 1890 numbers have anything to do with the numbers of Native Americans in the US in 2009 versus the numbers of Jews in Europe in 2009. That your whole introduction of these irrelevant numbers was a red herring to try to avoid conceding that I was right. Correct?
QuoteYou're neatly side-stepping three issues:
a. Defining and counting judaicity
b. How to make a census of jews.
c. Jewish emigration to Israel
I am not side-stepping anything. I made a bet, and won. You are weaselling around trying to pretend that didn't happen. First, with the red herrings of the numbers of Native Americans in 1492 and 1890, and now with the "depends on what the definition of 'is' is"-style appeal to difficulties of definition.
Quotea) You only are a jew if your mother is jewish. I myself would be considered jewish if you went by blood, but am not a jew since my mother isn't a jew.
Don't care because it doesn't matter.
Quoteb) Most European countries make it illegal to make a census of people by skin colour, creed or any other related criteria. All numbers are educated guesses at best.
Funny how you can accept numbers like those of Dobyns for Native Americans in North America in 1491, but then get all weaselly about estimates of much-better-known numbers in the 21st Century! :lmfao:
Current numbers are estimates, but they would need to be low by over 100% to void my point.
Quotec) A huge number of jews were of course genocided by Nazis during WW2, but a 2,000,000 jews moved to Israel over the past decades.
A total red herring. This has nothing to do with my argument that there are now more Native Americans i the US than Jews in Europe.
QuoteAltogether if you take "pure jews" and "pure natives" your figures are wrong.
Prove it. First, prove that something like a "pure jew" or "pure native" even exists, and then prove that the number of "pure jews" now in Europe is greater that the number of "pure natives" in the US.
QuoteThey were? I must have missed something then, O Great Leader
Yes, you missed a great deal. But since you have stuffed both feet into your mouth by tying yourself to the argument about "pure jews" and "pure natives," I expect that what you have missed to date will pale in comparison to what you will miss in the future.
QuoteI never said the posers were responsible for all of Europe's problems, I said that they were annoying (IMHO), offensive (IMHO) and in SOME cases dangerous. Beyond the occasional lout who'll use his posing to go looking for troubles (see my answer to Anchor) I'm talking about, for example, Irish-Americans being the major source of funding of the IRA (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201943.html).
Re-read that article (from 2005), dude. What it says is that "
until Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher asked President Ronald Reagan to stop them, they were the IRA's primary source of funding." It also notes that "The IRA's announcement last week that it would finally abandon armed struggle
was at least partly the result of a decade of Irish American pressure." Seems to me that the Irish Americans you sneer at were far more effective than you yourself at stopping the IRA's armed struggle. The problem you allege to was resolved before Reagan left office in 1988. That is 21 years ago. The solution you ignore was in 2005. That was four years ago.
Now, do you have
actual examples of American "ethnic posers"
actually creating problems in Europe right now (you say "in some cases" but then only provide one, which turns out to be a lie)? This whole claim is smelling more and more like hysterical bullshit with each post you make.
QuoteNow I know you'll probably disagree with anything I might say and I will probably disagree with anything you might say.
Speak for yourself. I respond to arguments, not posters.
QuoteHow about you think I'm a posing moron, I think you're a moron and we leave it at that?
Think what you like, but don't tell me how to think, thanks.
Quote from: grumbler on May 06, 2009, 02:29:45 PM
Artificial by definition, yes. Not fictive by definition, though.
I was just sayin'
You are just saying!