[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Josephus]

He always seemed like the better Ford, personality wise. He reminds me of Bush. Probably a really nice guy, is where he is because of family, but I don't like him on a political level.

He's also not a crack addict.

[Barrister]

Any of them speak French?

Apparently O'Toole and MacKay speak a more-or-less adequate French.  I know O'Toole would have had to have some French from his time in the military.

No idea about the other two.  Googling, Sloan says he is "aggressively" taking French lessons.  Lewis says she can't but she will "immerse" herself in the language from that point out.

[Oexmelin]

Apparently O'Toole and MacKay speak a more-or-less adequate French.  I know O'Toole would have had to have some French from his time in the military.

No idea about the other two.  Googling, Sloan says he is "aggressively" taking French lessons.  Lewis says she can't but she will "immerse" herself in the language from that point out.

lol. Basically, none of them. "Adequate", really?

[Barrister]

Apparently O'Toole and MacKay speak a more-or-less adequate French.  I know O'Toole would have had to have some French from his time in the military.

No idea about the other two.  Googling, Sloan says he is "aggressively" taking French lessons.  Lewis says she can't but she will "immerse" herself in the language from that point out.

lol. Basically, none of them. "Adequate", really?

Hey man - I don't speak French, so I don't know what to tell you.  You go track down some clips of them speaking in French and report back.  I didn't want to oversell - my understanding is both speak French but far from native fluency.

I'd be curious in your assessment for their ability.  Not that I expect the Conservatives to feature heavily in your decision on whom to vote for.

If we demand perfect French and English in our Prime Minister's it's a pretty small talent pool to draw from.  I never liked Jean Chretien, but I didn't think his less than perfect mastery of English was one of the reasons why.

[Oexmelin]

Hey man - I don't speak French, so I don't know what to tell you.  You go track down some clips of them speaking in French and report back.  I didn't want to oversell - my understanding is both speak French but far from native fluency.

I was reacting to the qualifier. "Adequate" implies capacity... but for what? To say the token French sentence before switching over to English? My sense is that Conservatives (and others: the NDP always had a terrible record on that matter, too) treat French like some sort of offering to angry gods, that you reluctantly do before you continue on to the rest of your important life. The idea that it would be important to learn *on its own merit*, or because it represents a certain idea of the country, or because you aspire to higher function, with high symbolic value -- all things which ought to matter to Conservatives - never seem to ever appear on the radar. I mean, McKay has had political ambition for a looooong time. That he never bothered to learn more than what he can now manage is frankly shameful, and should be considered as such.

I am not demanding "perfect" English or French. Chrétien didn't have mastery of English (and, to be frank, he didn't have mastery of French either...) But he was able to sustain a conversation, had enough vocabulary to switch from one wobbly word to one that could do in a pinch, etc. He could improvise, and communicate his thoughts autonomously. In any case, the comparison is moot: no one in English Canada would tolerate a PM who could only mangle a few sentences in English, and such a person could never dream to aspire to be PM.

So, the matter is, once again, what level of French should we expect from the PM - and there is a considerable margin between knowing how to parrot a few lines concocted by spin doctors, and native fluency. McKay clearly floundered when asked to stray beyond prepared lines. I only have seen O'Toole in carefully curated setting. My test is pretty simple: that you are able to spontaneously defend political ideas when called upon, and that you could do a long-form interview with a journalist. It's not about voting for Conservatives. It's about the idea of national representation. I was utterly opposed to Harper, but at least, he did his homework and learned enough French to do the above.

[Barrister]

Hey man - I don't speak French, so I don't know what to tell you.  You go track down some clips of them speaking in French and report back.  I didn't want to oversell - my understanding is both speak French but far from native fluency.

I was reacting to the qualifier. "Adequate" implies capacity... but for what? To say the token French sentence before switching over to English? My sense is that Conservatives (and others: the NDP always had a terrible record on that matter, too) treat French like some sort of offering to angry gods, that you reluctantly do before you continue on to the rest of your important life. The idea that it would be important to learn *on its own merit*, or because it represents a certain idea of the country, or because you aspire to higher function, with high symbolic value -- all things which ought to matter to Conservatives - never seem to ever appear on the radar. I mean, McKay has had political ambition for a looooong time. That he never bothered to learn more than what he can now manage is frankly shameful, and should be considered as such.

I get that French language ability is important.  I mean I first-ballot voted for Maxime Bernier because I loved the idea of a francophone Conservative leader (we all make mistakes).  I was ready to go all-in on Pierre Poilievre for the same reason.

My understanding is that as an officer in the Canadian Forces, Erin O'Toole had to be able to speak in French.  I don't know how to characterize it as adequate, good, passable, or whatever.  I do know his French language skills were reported as not being fantastic.

But you vote for the leadership candidates you have, not the candidates you wish you had.

[crazy canuck]

Oex,

Our provincial Minister of Health, NDP as you know, conducts his daily COVID news conference in English and French.  Not because he has to but because he can.  I think that is what you are talking about.

Edit: @BB Regrettably I also don't speak much French, and to my ear neither does McKay.  I can only imagine what he sounds like to our French speaking friends.

[Grey Fox]

Yeah, MMMckay doesnt speak french. To me, the golden standard for an anglophone learning french is Harper*

*Excluding Justin because that's not fair.

[viper37]

Apparently O'Toole and MacKay speak a more-or-less adequate French.  I know O'Toole would have had to have some French from his time in the military.

No idea about the other two.  Googling, Sloan says he is "aggressively" taking French lessons.  Lewis says she can't but she will "immerse" herself in the language from that point out.

lol. Basically, none of them. "Adequate", really?

MacKay used to speak French when he was in government, but he seems to have forgotten most of it.  Apparently, he's better in private.  Could be the pressure of delivering his lines in public in a second language.

[viper37]

Hey man - I don't speak French, so I don't know what to tell you.  You go track down some clips of them speaking in French and report back.  I didn't want to oversell - my understanding is both speak French but far from native fluency.

I was reacting to the qualifier. "Adequate" implies capacity... but for what? To say the token French sentence before switching over to English? My sense is that Conservatives (and others: the NDP always had a terrible record on that matter, too) treat French like some sort of offering to angry gods, that you reluctantly do before you continue on to the rest of your important life. The idea that it would be important to learn *on its own merit*, or because it represents a certain idea of the country, or because you aspire to higher function, with high symbolic value -- all things which ought to matter to Conservatives - never seem to ever appear on the radar. I mean, McKay has had political ambition for a looooong time. That he never bothered to learn more than what he can now manage is frankly shameful, and should be considered as such.

I get that French language ability is important.  I mean I first-ballot voted for Maxime Bernier because I loved the idea of a francophone Conservative leader (we all make mistakes).  I was ready to go all-in on Pierre Poilievre for the same reason.

My understanding is that as an officer in the Canadian Forces, Erin O'Toole had to be able to speak in French.  I don't know how to characterize it as adequate, good, passable, or whatever.  I do know his French language skills were reported as not being fantastic.

But you vote for the leadership candidates you have, not the candidates you wish you had.

Afaik, O'Toole can not speak French, it's worst than MacKay.

[grumbler]

there's that thing in economy called "elasticity".  It does not apply directly here, but the general concept is interesting.  You should read and meditate on it.

Elasticity, in economic terms, means the relationship between price and another variable such as supply (elasticity of supply) or demand (elasticity of demand).  No economist just talks about "a thing... called 'elasticity'."  Maybe you should read up on it and meditate for a bit before misusing the term again.

Did you know you can reply to posters without being a complete fucking asshole? Just an FYI.

Or even abstain from posting at all if you don't have anything constructive to say.

That's why so many people just ignore your posts. You're sad dude.

I'm using the exact same "complete fucking asshole" terms that Viper used with not a peep of complaint from you.  the difference between our posts was that mine was accurate.

The sad dude here is the one that cannot seem to avoid making personal attacks.  That would be you.  Maybe the next time you feel compelled to make a personal attack posting, you'll abstain, since such posts "don't have anything constructive to say" as you put it.

[PRC]

One of the Snowbird pilots has crashed in a residential neighborhood in Kamloops.

[grumbler]

One of the Snowbird pilots has crashed in a residential neighborhood in Kamloops.

Saw the video, and it was a strange crash.  Clearly, there was some mechanical failure in the control systems, because the plane lost control and went nose-up rather than nose-down.

These are ancient aircraft - last produced in 1966.  I'm not sure how many air hours they have, though, since there is a pool of them the Snowbirds cycle through.

[viper37]

Hey BB, what's your take on this?
Eye popping: UCP criticized for Premier's staff salaries totalling 2,9m$

I don't know the payscales of Alberta, nor the cost of living, but isn't it a tad high for a provincial cabinet staff?  And does he really need 19 people all year long?

[Barrister]

One of the Snowbird pilots has crashed in a residential neighborhood in Kamloops.

RCAF confirms Cpt. Jenn Casey died in the accident.

Very sad.  The Snowbirds were doing a cross-Canada tour.  The crossed over Edmonton on Friday - Mrs B and the boys were waiting outside, got an excellent view of them going overhead.  Yet another shitty happen this year.