British Freedom of Speech withered, dying

[Neil]

Exactly.  Whiny, victim mentality is a fact of life for everyone these days.  The problem is that the authorities have embraced moral cowardice.

You know, I'm going to miss liberalism and the enlightenment when they're gone, but they seem to be evolving to a point where they can no longer defend themselves.

Seeing how liberalism/enlightenment is the only system that has not only survived the last two hundred years, but has thrived and defeated all other systems that attempted to challenge it (nazism, communism, absolutism etc.), I think your prophecies of its demise are grossly premature.

It has to die sometime, does it not?

[Martinus]

The poor muslim dude though, marries an English girl who then converts to some strict form of Islam, manages to get him involved in some ludicrous tiff at a hotel breakfast and probably gives him a bollocking if he ever dares to have a pint with his mates after an Everton match 

Heh, that actually seems likely.

[Martinus]

Exactly.  Whiny, victim mentality is a fact of life for everyone these days.  The problem is that the authorities have embraced moral cowardice.

You know, I'm going to miss liberalism and the enlightenment when they're gone, but they seem to be evolving to a point where they can no longer defend themselves.

Seeing how liberalism/enlightenment is the only system that has not only survived the last two hundred years, but has thrived and defeated all other systems that attempted to challenge it (nazism, communism, absolutism etc.), I think your prophecies of its demise are grossly premature.

It has to die sometime, does it not?

Well, all things do, eventually. Still, in comparison, I'd say nazism or communism were far more dangerous threats to it than muslim immigration is now, and still it beat them.

[Neil]

Well, all things do, eventually. Still, in comparison, I'd say nazism or communism were far more dangerous threats to it than muslim immigration is now, and still it beat them.

The West was a different place back then.  Liberal, but also with a strong self-image and a willingness to take a stand.

[Richard Hakluyt]

There is actually quite a lot of unpleasant racism in the UK. I think the main risk is that the liberals here will produce too much overly-sensitive legislation and thus inflame the very feelings they are trying to suppress.

[Grallon]

The West was a different place back then.  Liberal, but also with a strong self-image and a willingness to take a stand.

Not to mention the 'ennemies' were external - now we simply invite them in!  Perhaps that's the real symptom of decadence: the unwillingness to fight for one's beliefs?  What was that quote again...  about civilizations dying not from external threats but from internal corruption...?



G.

[Berkut]

The West was a different place back then.  Liberal, but also with a strong self-image and a willingness to take a stand.

Not to mention the 'ennemies' were external - now we simply invite them in!  Perhaps that's the real symptom of decadence: the unwillingness to fight for one's beliefs?  What was that quote again...  about civilizations dying not from external threats but from internal corruption...?



G.

People have been saying that about every single social change since the dawn of time, I suspect.

Western society/"our way of life" was collapsing because black people were allowed to vote. Or marry. Or women were allowed to vote. Or gay people were tolerated. Or, of course, them damn furriners are taking over. Or because the damn heretics are taking over/being tolerated. The Catholics are coming! The Catholics are going! The protestants are ruining everything! The Damned Sunnis are coming in! Oh no it's the huegenots!

Blahblahblah, slightly different tune each time, but always the same song of intolerance and hate for the evil "different".

[Grallon]

Read this and we'll talk some more.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760


G.
-----

Oh and this tasty quote from the article:

Take multiculturalism. The great thing about multiculturalism is that it doesn't involve knowing anything about other cultures--the capital of Bhutan, the principal exports of Malawi, who cares? All it requires is feeling good about other cultures. It's fundamentally a fraud, and I would argue was subliminally accepted on that basis. Most adherents to the idea that all cultures are equal don't want to live in anything but an advanced Western society. Multiculturalism means your kid has to learn some wretched native dirge for the school holiday concert instead of getting to sing "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" or that your holistic masseuse uses techniques developed from Native American spirituality, but not that you or anyone you care about should have to live in an African or Native American society. It's a quintessential piece of progressive humbug.

[Sheilbh]

Does the Mail usually give the property value of the homes of people they interview?

Yes.  It's a British obsession.  For the true Daily Mail experience you'd just need to add how gay gypsy assylum seekers with TB are causing property prices to collapse

[BuddhaRhubarb]

It would be the same if it was a Jewish person who walked in and the couple started to heckle over the question of why the Jews killed Jesus. If that was the case, I imagine there would be more compassion.

I rather doubt it.

Oh please. Whenever Jews are accosted, everyone on this forum comes running with open arms like a worried soccer mom.

except for those doing the accosting, you mean.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe these hoteliers discriminate against homosexuals as well, maybe they attack women who wear slutty tops to breakfast; maybe the muslim woman is an over-sensitive nutcase; we just don't know until the court proceedings have taken place.

I think there have been cases about Christian hoteliers bitching at gay couples.  Why do so many intense Christians open B&Bs?

[Syt]

Maybe these hoteliers discriminate against homosexuals as well, maybe they attack women who wear slutty tops to breakfast; maybe the muslim woman is an over-sensitive nutcase; we just don't know until the court proceedings have taken place.

I think there have been cases about Christian hoteliers bitching at gay couples.  Why do so many intense Christians open B&Bs?

Intense people in general.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Read this and we'll talk some more.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760


G.
-----

Oh and this tasty quote from the article:

Take multiculturalism. The great thing about multiculturalism is that it doesn't involve knowing anything about other cultures--the capital of Bhutan, the principal exports of Malawi, who cares? All it requires is feeling good about other cultures. It's fundamentally a fraud, and I would argue was subliminally accepted on that basis. Most adherents to the idea that all cultures are equal don't want to live in anything but an advanced Western society. Multiculturalism means your kid has to learn some wretched native dirge for the school holiday concert instead of getting to sing "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" or that your holistic masseuse uses techniques developed from Native American spirituality, but not that you or anyone you care about should have to live in an African or Native American society. It's a quintessential piece of progressive humbug.

That's a pretty stupid definition of multiculturalism. Full of snide assumptions. So probably this is exactly how many people see multiculturalism. Too bad for them. It sucks that there are so many self righteous gasbags out there.

Real "multiculturalism" is not about replacing one set of superstitions or rituals with another, or even having to be exposed to them. It's about having the opportunity to be exposed to them. You don't have to participate or even watch or even be aware that the other cultures are there, unless you want to.

[derspiess]

Real "multiculturalism" is not about replacing one set of superstitions or rituals with another, or even having to be exposed to them. It's about having the opportunity to be exposed to them. You don't have to participate or even watch or even be aware that the other cultures are there, unless you want to.

Where is this "real" multiculturalism?  In many/most cases, the multiculturalism I know tends to be forced on people.  Like in school, for example.

[Slargos]

Read this and we'll talk some more.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760


G.
-----

Oh and this tasty quote from the article:

Take multiculturalism. The great thing about multiculturalism is that it doesn't involve knowing anything about other cultures--the capital of Bhutan, the principal exports of Malawi, who cares? All it requires is feeling good about other cultures. It's fundamentally a fraud, and I would argue was subliminally accepted on that basis. Most adherents to the idea that all cultures are equal don't want to live in anything but an advanced Western society. Multiculturalism means your kid has to learn some wretched native dirge for the school holiday concert instead of getting to sing "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" or that your holistic masseuse uses techniques developed from Native American spirituality, but not that you or anyone you care about should have to live in an African or Native American society. It's a quintessential piece of progressive humbug.

That's a pretty stupid definition of multiculturalism. Full of snide assumptions. So probably this is exactly how many people see multiculturalism. Too bad for them. It sucks that there are so many self righteous gasbags out there.

Real "multiculturalism" is not about replacing one set of superstitions or rituals with another, or even having to be exposed to them. It's about having the opportunity to be exposed to them. You don't have to participate or even watch or even be aware that the other cultures are there, unless you want to.

I'm sorting this gem right beside "The Soviet Union wasn't really communist and as such casts no shadow on the communist ideology".