Women in combat

[alfred russel]

Why would allowing women into combat roles lead to an exodus of women, and didn't the Soviets make it work?

IIRC the Soviets used women in segregated units.

I think you are right. I didn't bother to read Hans' post closely enough--I thought he was discussing just putting women in front line roles rather than also integrating them.

[alfred russel]

Because the step from "allowable" to "mandatory" is very small

Hmmm--it seems large to me.

[Hansmeister]

When you add all the shit you have to be able to carry in light infantry it adds up to about 150 pounds.  Are there any women outside of former east german athletes able to carry that load?

Plenty.  My 5'10" wife for one.  She never went out for the army, but passed the male physical requirements for the RCMP.

I'm with Meri in that I don't believe in reduced physical requirements for women, but some women are certainly as physically capable as men.

Nonsense, the amount of weight you can safely carry without risking permanent damage is a combination of physical fitness and proportional body weight.  Contrary to popular belief wars are not fought conducting physical fitness tests, nor are any monkeybars involved in actual combat.  A women's physical frame is simply not capable of supporting a lot of weight, not to mention women's lack of upper body musculatur (women have 50% less musle than men, no amount of physical training can overcome that).

[Hansmeister]

Because the step from "allowable" to "mandatory" is very small

Hmmm--it seems large to me.

Trust me, there are many things in the military that are "voluntary", yet your average Soldier would have a hard time opting out. 

[merithyn]

Nonsense, the amount of weight you can safely carry without risking permanent damage is a combination of physical fitness and proportional body weight.  Contrary to popular belief wars are not fought conducting physical fitness tests, nor are any monkeybars involved in actual combat.  A women's physical frame is simply not capable of supporting a lot of weight, not to mention women's lack of upper body musculatur (women have 50% less musle than men, no amount of physical training can overcome that).

So, basically, because you say so, it's true? Even though there are plenty of women who can and do manage? (i.e. the Canadian military allows women in combat situations, as has been stated here)

Think what you want, but please don't be so arrogant as to state it as fact.

[Admiral Yi]

I'd like a little more background on that Canadian women "in combat situations" thing.  US women are fired on, and killed, but they don't serve in combat units.  Beeb, do you mean Canadian women are serving as grunts in infantry squads?

[Neil]

I thought Hans was talking infantry.

Still, I'm not sure that integrating women is a useful thing to do.

[merithyn]

Interesting article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/16women.html?_r=2&em

[Neil]

Interesting article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/16women.html?_r=2&em

Her gun is bigger than she is.

How can we discourage child soldiers and yet use women in our own armies?

[Barrister]

Beeb, do you mean Canadian women are serving as grunts in infantry squads?

Yes.

http://www.forces.ca/html/womeninthecf_en.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/women-cdnmilitary.html

[Barrister]

Nonsense, the amount of weight you can safely carry without risking permanent damage is a combination of physical fitness and proportional body weight.  Contrary to popular belief wars are not fought conducting physical fitness tests, nor are any monkeybars involved in actual combat.  A women's physical frame is simply not capable of supporting a lot of weight, not to mention women's lack of upper body musculatur (women have 50% less musle than men, no amount of physical training can overcome that).

You get into huge trouble by taking averages then translating them to immutable facts.

Yes, on average women have less muscle mass then men do.

That does not mean however that some women don't have significantly more muscle mass than others.

[Neil]

She-Hulk has significantly more muscle mass than the Invisible Woman, for example.

[merithyn]

She-Hulk has significantly more muscle mass than the Invisible Woman, for example.

I'd think Wonder Woman would have them both beat, however.

[Eddie Teach]

You think Wonder Woman has bigger muscles than a feminine version of the Hulk? 

[Razgovory]

Nonsense, the amount of weight you can safely carry without risking permanent damage is a combination of physical fitness and proportional body weight.  Contrary to popular belief wars are not fought conducting physical fitness tests, nor are any monkeybars involved in actual combat.  A women's physical frame is simply not capable of supporting a lot of weight, not to mention women's lack of upper body musculatur (women have 50% less musle than men, no amount of physical training can overcome that).

So, basically, because you say so, it's true? Even though there are plenty of women who can and do manage? (i.e. the Canadian military allows women in combat situations, as has been stated here)

Think what you want, but please don't be so arrogant as to state it as fact.

Well, that's how he gets his facts.  He doesn't question the information he gets why should you?