Women in combat

[CountDeMoney]

[Hansmeister]

Nonsense, the amount of weight you can safely carry without risking permanent damage is a combination of physical fitness and proportional body weight.  Contrary to popular belief wars are not fought conducting physical fitness tests, nor are any monkeybars involved in actual combat.  A women's physical frame is simply not capable of supporting a lot of weight, not to mention women's lack of upper body musculatur (women have 50% less musle than men, no amount of physical training can overcome that).

You get into huge trouble by taking averages then translating them to immutable facts.

Yes, on average women have less muscle mass then men do.

That does not mean however that some women don't have significantly more muscle mass than others.

It is an immutable fact that women have 50% less muscles than men, it's genetic and fixed at birth.  Don't confuse the strength of muscles with the amount of muscles, two different things.

[Hansmeister]

Beeb, do you mean Canadian women are serving as grunts in infantry squads?

Yes.

http://www.forces.ca/html/womeninthecf_en.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/women-cdnmilitary.html

Those links say nothing about women serving in infantry.

[merithyn]

Here:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/05/17/afghanistan-cda.html

A female soldier from Canada was killed while fighting Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan on Wednesday, military officials said.

Capt. Nichola Goddard, 26, had been serving in Afghanistan with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. She was  a member of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, based in Shilo, Man.

[PRC]

She-Hulk is the best.

[merithyn]

And here:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=1581

1986-1988     

Following a discrimination complaint, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal orders the Canadian Forces to:

    * Continue the CREW trials as preparation for the full integration of women in all occupations of the CF rather than as a trials program;
    * Fully integrate women into Regular and Reserve Forces (with the exception of submarines);
    * Remove all employment restrictions and implement new occupational personnel selection standards; and
    * Devise a plan to steadily, regularly and consistently achieve complete integration within ten years.

1988    Colonel Sheila A. Hellstrom is the first female graduate of National Defence College. She becomes the first Regular Force woman to be promoted to the rank of Brigadier-General.
     First female gunners in the Regular Force graduate from qualification 3 training and are posted to 5e Régiment d'artillerie légére (5 RALC) in Valcartier, Quebec as part of the CREW trials.

[merithyn]

It is an immutable fact that women have 50% less muscles than men, it's genetic and fixed at birth.  Don't confuse the strength of muscles with the amount of muscles, two different things.

What does that have to do with doing the job? Cite me something that says that women are completely incapable of doing the job. Anything. You can't, because it's just not the case. As a gender, women are as diverse as men. There are men who can handle the physical requirements, and there are those who cannot. The same is true of women.

How it hurts to allow them the opportunity to try is beyond me, other than it frightens some macho men to think that there are women just as physically capable as they are.

[merithyn]

It is an immutable fact that women have 50% less muscles than men, it's genetic and fixed at birth.  Don't confuse the strength of muscles with the amount of muscles, two different things.

And 74% of polls are made up.

[Barrister]

Beeb, do you mean Canadian women are serving as grunts in infantry squads?

Yes.

http://www.forces.ca/html/womeninthecf_en.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/women-cdnmilitary.html

Those links say nothing about women serving in infantry.

You're right that they don't say "women serve in infantry".

But what it does fucking say is:

The Canadian Armed Forces opened all occupations, including combat roles, to women in 1989. Only submarines were excluded and they followed in 2000.

The only exception was submarines, and even that was removed almost 10 years ago.  Do you think they'd just leave out the entire infantry?  Not to mention the PPCLI officer that Meri mentioned - unless you think Infantry regiments don't count as infantry.

Sheesh Hans - please pick your battles.  If you want to argue the point at least try and argue that the Canadian military is horribly weakened and ineffective by having women in it (although I'll scoff at such an assertion).  But don't try and argue that black is white.

[Barrister]

It is an immutable fact that women have 50% less muscles than men, it's genetic and fixed at birth.  Don't confuse the strength of muscles with the amount of muscles, two different things.

First, do you have a cite on that?

Second - you left out the words ON AVERAGE.  I fully accept that, on average, women have fewer muscles than men.  That does not mean however that some women do not in fact have more muscles than some men.

[Zanza]

Those links say nothing about women serving in infantry.

The original article posted says that women are banned from all combat roles, not just light infantry. That's a limitation that Siege and you have brought into the argument. So, let's go back to combat roles in general: Why can't they drive a tank or IFV? Or operate artillery?

[Jaron]

Those links say nothing about women serving in infantry.

The original article posted says that women are banned from all combat roles, not just light infantry. That's a limitation that Siege and you have brought into the argument. So, let's go back to combat roles in general: Why can't they drive a tank or IFV? Or operate artillery?

Women drivers? 

[Admiral Yi]

Here:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/05/17/afghanistan-cda.html

A female soldier from Canada was killed while fighting Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan on Wednesday, military officials said.

Capt. Nichola Goddard, 26, had been serving in Afghanistan with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. She was  a member of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, based in Shilo, Man.

She was a forward observer.  Which is close enough for me, maybe not for Hans.

The impression I get from Beeb's first link is that while all slots, including infantry, are open to women, no woman has volunteered yet.  The list of female firsts looks pretty exhaustive, no female first grunt is conspicuous by its absence.

[Barrister]

The impression I get from Beeb's first link is that while all slots, including infantry, are open to women, no woman has volunteered yet.  The list of female firsts looks pretty exhaustive, no female first grunt is conspicuous by its absence.

I question that logic.  I'm not sure that "first grunt" wound indeed make that list, as it seems to mostly involve women in leadership roles.

[Admiral Yi]

I question that logic.  I'm not sure that "first grunt" wound indeed make that list, as it seems to mostly involve women in leadership roles.

First woman to fly a CF-18, first woman to log 10,000 flight miles in a Hercules, first women to enter the artillery, etc.