Women in combat

[merithyn]

Remember how everyone got so upset at the Iranian chick dying during the demonstrations, when dozens of men died without much comment from the western public?  Multiply that by hundreds of cases, and you can start to see how the "cost of war" will become disproportionately higher if a significant fraction of the dead are women.

Hell, just remember all the bullshit over Jessica Lynch.  And she was just in a fucking car accident.

To be fair, she was a POW that was rescued. Were she a man, it would have been just as awesome to have him saved in such a fashion. It made for good news. That she was a woman didn't hurt, no, but I think it would have been made a big deal either way.

[CountDeMoney]

It's just basic physiology.

I mean, a woman's physical attributes don't come into play when it comes to a cockpit, or a tank turret, or any number of activities on the modern battlefield with today's technology.
But, when it comes to the nitty gritty, room-to-room warfare in the trenches, someone 4'11" and 115lbs is at a distinct disadvantage in hand-to-hand, close quarters combat.

Same thing with cops;  I've seen female officers tossed around like little dish rags because they had no ass, dragged around bars by their little ponytails.

That's why, way back in the day before equal rights, Maryland State Troopers were required to be 6' tall with proportional weight.  Why? Because out on the road, with back up long minutes and miles away, you need to have the physical attributes necessary to ensure, or at least give you a fighting chance for, tactical survival.

Combat, at its most literal, is about killing the man opposite you.  And women are at a distinct disadvantage at that moment.

[merithyn]

It's just basic physiology.

I mean, a woman's physical attributes don't come into play when it comes to a cockpit, or a tank turret, or any number of activities on the modern battlefield with today's technology.
But, when it comes to the nitty gritty, room-to-room warfare in the trenches, someone 4'11" and 115lbs is at a distinct disadvantage in hand-to-hand, close quarters combat.

Same thing with cops;  I've seen female officers tossed around like little dish rags because they had no ass, dragged around bars by their little ponytails.

That's why, way back in the day before equal rights, Maryland State Troopers were required to be 6' tall with proportional weight.  Why? Because out on the road, with back up long minutes and miles away, you need to have the physical attributes necessary to ensure, or at least give you a fighting chance for, tactical survival.

Combat, at its most literal, is about killing the man opposite you.  And women are at a distinct disadvantage at that moment.

Which is why it's imperative that nothing changes as it regards the requirements for the job. Everyone must still be able to lift XX amount, run XX speed, tackle someone XX size, etc. That can't change to accommodate women. If a woman happens to be able to do those things, then yes, let her do the job. If she can't, then it's no different than if a man can't. The job requires those things, ergo one must be able to do them in order to have the job.

[CountDeMoney]

Which is why it's imperative that nothing changes as it regards the requirements for the job. Everyone must still be able to lift XX amount, run XX speed, tackle someone XX size, etc. That can't change to accommodate women.

But it already has changed.

[Warspite]

Yes, and if you don't change it, then the criticism becomes "the bar is set artificially high".

[FunkMonk]

Which is why it's imperative that nothing changes as it regards the requirements for the job. Everyone must still be able to lift XX amount, run XX speed, tackle someone XX size, etc. That can't change to accommodate women.

But it already has changed.

Physical fitness standards in the army nowadays are laughably easy. You only fail if you're fat or lazy.

[CountDeMoney]

Physical fitness standards in the army nowadays are laughably easy. You only fail if you're fat or lazy.

Or if your tits get in the way.  But that goes for Jaron, too.

[merithyn]

But it already has changed.

Which I see as a real problem.

I'm as much a feminist as you're likely to meet, but not in the "bad" way. What I believe is that women should have exactly the same opportunities as men to do the exact same job. Don't change it to accommodate the fact that women tend to be smaller, weaker, and *coughs* smarter. Find the bare minimum of what it entails to do the job, and apply them across the board.

The one thing to keep in mind is that most jobs need to be re-evaluated due to new techonologies, new ways at viewing the jobs, and to make sure that the bare minimum is correct. There was a time when job requirements were made what they were in order to keep women out of them. (I'm thinking construction here, in particular, but there are other jobs that did that, as well.) I think that as a whole, our society is now better at saying, "Okay, let's find out what needs to happen, what is needed to make it happen, and right our requirements accordingly, regardless of gender, race, sexual practices, or how many teeth a person has in their head." Unfortunately, it's not perfect, and there are still those who will set their "guidelines" in a way to intentionally keep a particular set of people out.

[merithyn]

Yes, and if you don't change it, then the criticism becomes "the bar is set artificially high".

Are you saying that this doesn't happen?

[PDH]

Those are the hard facts.

Not in the goddammed Space Marines, asshole.

[Admiral Yi]

No thanks. I am a civilian and intend to stay one.

But I reserve myself the right to have an opinion on general issues of society. And the discrimination of women in the military is such an issue.

So far, the arguments I've read suggest that the problem is not with the women, but with the men serving in the military. That's not a good enough reason for discrimination in my opinion.

"The problem" is with the ability of the military to perform its function.  For counties where that function is fighting the enemy that's a pretty serious concern.

[Ed Anger]

Women are there to make babies and fix sandwiches.

[CountDeMoney]

Women are there to make babies and fix sandwiches.

You're all balls here, but you wouldn't say shit like that to the little missus, and you know it.
I'm surprised your ass isn't at a crafts fair right now.

[Eddie Teach]

He is. He's posting from his phone.

[Ed Anger]

I'm busted. I'm in the corner trying to get CBS TV reception on my 2" B&W TV.