Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Josquius]

More like how people call vacuum cleaners hoovers.
Unless, as it seems, you disagree with the assessment the EDL, national rally, etc... Are actually far right groups?

Neither vacuum cleaners nor Hoovers killed six million Jews and Gypsies and started a World War of enslavement.

I think I understand your psychological need to use Clearly Non Literal language.  You're venting.  You call skinheads who counterprotest pro Palestinian demonstrations nazis because it's a way of expressing your anger at what they're doing.  If you're doing your venting in an echo chamber you'll also receive a lot of validation.  That Squeeze is a wonderful fellow for daring to speak the truth!

But if you leave the echo chamber the results will be different.  You'll look like a person who can't distinguish reality from fantasy.  Like someone who has started to believe his own propaganda.  I.e. an idiot.

People vent here all the time.  Most of the time they will admit they are venting.  This gives you the best of both worlds.  Please consider doing it this way.

You're over thinking it. There's no venting going on here. Apparently I said nazi when talking about the far right a few months ago. No idea of the context or why. It could have been related to protests but j suspect not. It's beyond protests that they have this policy.

The word might have been on my mind given we are talking about Jews and the complete 180 being interesting. It might have just been because it's a quicker and easier word to use than far right.
I certainly wouldn't have expected months later people to be throwing a fit about word choice when it was fucking obvious what I was talking about, and apparently clarified right away when Raz tried to score points.

I've no idea what you're talking about with echo chambers.
 And I'm not the one looking a complete idiot here.
Amazingly dumb discussion. A guy in a throw away post many months ago used a inaccurate word about the far right! That's stoopid!

So it's like when a right-wing calls a left-winger a communist.  Or really anyone that the right-winger disagrees with.


"Those Wall Street fat cats are all communists!"

More like how people call vacuum cleaners hoovers.
Unless, as it seems, you disagree with the assessment the EDL, national rally, etc... Are actually far right groups?

I have no problem saying they are far-right groups.  They aren't Nazis though.  What you are doing is trying to equate people you disagree with, people who support Israel, with the most extreme evil you know, Nazis.  The results are absurd.  Nazis love Jews!  It's no different than the right-winger who calls the people he disagrees with communists, with the same absurd results: Wall Street is Communist!

 Could there be some pangs of "are we the baddies?" waking up in there as you realise zealous carte blanche support for zionism is pretty shit and puts you in with the wrong crowd?

I have absolutely zero idea of the context in which the far right tending to support Israel these days was mentioned. It is a fact however.
Needless to say this kind of circular a dog is a mammal thus all mammals are dogs logic is more your kind of thing, completely out of character for me and unlikely to be what I was saying.

As to "you just call everyone you disagree with fascists!!" - this is a defence those with fascy inclination throw up to try and shoot down the mere discussion that e.g. Trump is a bit of a fascist. Throwing that one out does seem to show your alliances are quite contrary to what you've previously claimed. Either that of you're being rather daft.

[Razgovory]

Dude, remember the actual Nazis, the ones with Swastikas and the like, they are on your side.  Along with the Alt-Right, the Hardcore Communists, and perhaps most importantly hundreds of millions of far-right Muslims who very much believe in exterminating the Jews.

You really don't see the similarity of right-wingers who label everyone they disagree with "communist" and what you do, do you?

[grumbler]

This "but you said nazi and I am going to pretend that you said Nazi" discussion lost all coherence a long time ago.  Maybe it's time to move on and discuss a topic like Israel-Hamas War 2023.

[Josquius]

Dude, remember the actual Nazis, the ones with Swastikas and the like, they are on your side.  Along with the Alt-Right, the Hardcore Communists, and perhaps most importantly hundreds of millions of far-right Muslims who very much believe in exterminating the Jews.

The actual Nazis are dead. They're not on anybodys side. When they were a thing they certainlly didn't have much overlap with any of my views right down to their transport policy.
The modern far right are overwhelmingly on "your side" with their whole "Islam is the greatest threat to the world and we should just kill them all... But don't say that bit out loud" schtick.
Simply bizare argument. Both wrong and thoroughly irrelevant.

You really don't see the similarity of right-wingers who label everyone they disagree with "communist" and what you do, do you?

There's no similarity. That's not what anyone is doing when they use nazi as short hand for groups that are pretty uncontroversially very far right.
It's not about anyone who disagrees. It's about a very specific sort of different viewpoints.

[Razgovory]

Wait, so guys that fly the Nazi flag aren't actually Nazis?  You have a definition of Nazi that excludes people with Swastikas.  You don't think that's really weird?

[grumbler]

Wait, so guys that fly the Nazi flag aren't actually Nazis?  You have a definition of Nazi that excludes people with Swastikas.  You don't think that's really weird?

No, those guys aren't Nazis.  At best, they are neo-Nazis and often not even that, just Hitler fanbois. These groups don't really favor any particular policies or visions of the future, focusing on hating in the here and now.

All Neo-Nazis are nazis, but not all nazis are neo-nazis. 


So, do people think that A. Blinken can finalize the truce negotiations?

[Razgovory]

Are the Palestinians nazis?

[crazy canuck]

So, do people think that A. Blinken can finalize the truce negotiations?

A valiant attempt to bring this back on topic.

In answer to your question -  No, but I wish him luck and hope he can.

[Iormlund]

Why would Israel agree to a truce? They need to occupy the whole strip to neuter Hamas.

[Jacob]

Erdogan has been throwing around suggestions that Turkey might intervene on behalf of the Palestinians.

While I think it's rhetoric designed for internal consumption, to distract from a shitty economy, even suggesting it is a bit surprising.

I imagine it has the potential for upending things internationally if he followed through.

[Razgovory]

Why would Israel agree to a truce? They need to occupy the whole strip to neuter Hamas.

For the same reason the Allies would withdraw from Germany in April 1945.

[Norgy]

Why would Israel agree to a truce? They need to occupy the whole strip to neuter Hamas.

For the same reason the Allies would withdraw from Germany in April 1945.

Well, the Allies did not withdraw, Raz.

[grumbler]

Why would Israel agree to a truce? They need to occupy the whole strip to neuter Hamas.

Such an occupation would be damaging to the moral of the (relatively small) IDF and would be a recruitment boon for Hamas.  If Israel wants to get any of the remaining hostages back, they need to give Hamas a reason to bargain.

There's no good solution here for Israel. 

[Iormlund]

Why would Israel agree to a truce? They need to occupy the whole strip to neuter Hamas.

Such an occupation would be damaging to the moral of the (relatively small) IDF and would be a recruitment boon for Hamas.  If Israel wants to get any of the remaining hostages back, they need to give Hamas a reason to bargain.

There's no good solution here for Israel. 

If they withdraw they effectively give the Strip back to Hamas. And back to square one.

There is indeed no good solution. But permanent occupation is the lesser evil for both Israelis and Palestinian civilians.

[The Minsky Moment]

I don't think it is politically feasible for any Israeli government to agree to a resolution that leaves Hamas in charge of Gaza.  It would be like America agreeing to a truce in 2002 where al-Qaeda occupied Mexico and Bin Laden controlled the Mexican state. 

Hamas broke a truce and murdered hundreds of civilians. No cease fire agreement or truce with them is worth the paper it is written on; Hamas will break it without compunction the instant they believe it be convenient to do so.