Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Norgy]

Very few who use the word has a clue about what fascism is. It is like woke. Just scare-mongering.

[Tamas]

You are worse than Hitler.

[Norgy]

I think we established that years ago?

[Josquius]

The trouble is these days you have politicians like Trump who do tick a tonne of the boxes for being considered fascist. People are keen to deflect these assessments with this "you just call everyone who disagrees with you fascist" line (even when it's clearly untrue)

[Razgovory]

So it's like when a right-wing calls a left-winger a communist.  Or really anyone that the right-winger disagrees with. 


"Those Wall Street fat cats are all communists!"

[Norgy]

They'd call it woke. Because woke is more dangerous-sounding. 

[Savonarola]

They'd call it woke. Because woke is more dangerous-sounding. 

Raz is right, from a US perspective (although "Woke" is indeed also used).  The term "Communist" has been even applied by Republicans to Mitt Romney, the founder Bain Capital.

[Norgy]

You do remember Lenin's venture capitalist company, of course.

[Josquius]

So it's like when a right-wing calls a left-winger a communist.  Or really anyone that the right-winger disagrees with.


"Those Wall Street fat cats are all communists!"

More like how people call vacuum cleaners hoovers.
Unless, as it seems, you disagree with the assessment the EDL, national rally, etc... Are actually far right groups?

[Solmyr]

Maybe we should consider not throwing the word nazi about quite so frequently?

Sure, and the word fascist while we are it.

What do you call someone who expresses all the ideas of fascism but does not like to be called a fascist?

[Duque de Bragança]

Maybe we should consider not throwing the word nazi about quite so frequently?

Sure, and the word fascist while we are it.

What do you call someone who expresses all the ideas of fascism but does not like to be called a fascist?

All the ideas of fascism would have to be defined clearly. Assuming that...

You will be find very few people these days (only Mussolini back in the day starting as a socialist before his days in power) expressing all the ideas of fascism these days, so the point is moot; fascism being a political concept itself, with an intellectual basis given by Gentile, yet prone to variations since mostly based on — violent — action than a 100 % clear ideological program, with a mix of capitalist and socialist economy (hard dirigisme) so the point is moot.

In common leftist parlance, a fascist is somebody right of centre a leftist disagrees with i.e as an insult, conflating it with nazi, and since most people don't like to be insulted, I'll let you figure out the rest.

Now somebody totally aligned on Mussolini's and Gentile's ideas 1922-1943, specially after the consolidation of the regime, which aspired to be totalitarian, could be deemed indeed a fascist, assuming that the political label had still some relevance outside of polemic.

Gentile did fell out of favor a bit after the normalisation of the regime though, over his anti-clerical policy (early fascism).   

[The Brain]

As I've said before I'm not very afraid of Fascism. I think garden variety authoritarian conservative/reactionary regimes are MUCH more likely when democracy falls.

[Admiral Yi]

More like how people call vacuum cleaners hoovers.
Unless, as it seems, you disagree with the assessment the EDL, national rally, etc... Are actually far right groups?

Neither vacuum cleaners nor Hoovers killed six million Jews and Gypsies and started a World War of enslavement.

I think I understand your psychological need to use Clearly Non Literal language.  You're venting.  You call skinheads who counterprotest pro Palestinian demonstrations nazis because it's a way of expressing your anger at what they're doing.  If you're doing your venting in an echo chamber you'll also receive a lot of validation.  That Squeeze is a wonderful fellow for daring to speak the truth!

But if you leave the echo chamber the results will be different.  You'll look like a person who can't distinguish reality from fantasy.  Like someone who has started to believe his own propaganda.  I.e. an idiot.

People vent here all the time.  Most of the time they will admit they are venting.  This gives you the best of both worlds.  Please consider doing it this way.

[Razgovory]

So it's like when a right-wing calls a left-winger a communist.  Or really anyone that the right-winger disagrees with.


"Those Wall Street fat cats are all communists!"

More like how people call vacuum cleaners hoovers.
Unless, as it seems, you disagree with the assessment the EDL, national rally, etc... Are actually far right groups?

I have no problem saying they are far-right groups.  They aren't Nazis though.  What you are doing is trying to equate people you disagree with, people who support Israel, with the most extreme evil you know, Nazis.  The results are absurd.  Nazis love Jews!  It's no different than the right-winger who calls the people he disagrees with communists, with the same absurd results: Wall Street is Communist!

[Norgy]

The ideas of fascism were never really clearly defined. "Mein Kampf" is a rather clear roadmap to what Hitler wanted. But Mussolini's brand of fascism was more like "I will give you a state", a late-comer to state-building.
The early fascists were bands of veterans of the Great War who felt cheated, and that resentment is key in whatever fascist ideology there is. In that respect, one might, uhm, draw comparisions with a certain US presidential candidate's messages.

But fascism came about in a time of existential crisis. Millions had died in the trenches and the whole European order had broken down. Many had lost faith, and fascism gave someone something to blame someone else for. It is a powerful human emotion, that.

In Italy, it was the socialists and the liberal establishment that had "failed". And Italy was a mess. No doubt about it.

Fascism never really became a clear set of ideas. The MSI, the Italian neo-fascists, pretty much vaccillated between some form of anti-immigration bluster and what could be construed as social democracy with a bit of autocracy thrown in the mix until Berlusconi came into Italian politics.

It is emotion and preferably rage that lie at the heart of fascism. And that democracy somehow has failed.