The Dutch continue to be ridiculously racist and in denial about it

Started by jimmy olsen, August 14, 2015, 03:07:15 AM

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Josquius

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The Brain

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grumbler

Quote from: Tyr on August 16, 2015, 03:54:27 AM
It's called a figure of speech.

It's called bullshit hyperbole...  when people are too polite to say "a lie."

"99%" is not a "figure of speech."  If you were a non native speaker it would be forgivable to think so but.... Wow.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Warspite

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: Norgy on August 15, 2015, 04:39:17 PM


Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia in the 1990's.  Now a member in the EU.  Countries like Latvia have a large number of Russians who were born in those countries but can't get Latvian citizenship because must first pass a citizenship test in a language they don't know.  Also part of the EU.

As part of EU membership accession, Croatia had to enact and implement a large number of measures on Serbian minority return. Serbs have played a politically significant role in coalitions in the post-Tudjman era.

But not really comparable with the US, given American has not had to go through highly destabilising post-Communist regime transition. There was nothing inevitable about the violent collapse of Yugoslavia, and the country pre-war was hardly known for discrimination and oppressed minorities (other than the Kosovars).
" SIR – I must commend you on some of your recent obituaries. I was delighted to read of the deaths of Foday Sankoh (August 9th), and Uday and Qusay Hussein (July 26th). Do you take requests? "

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Razgovory

Quote from: Martinus on August 16, 2015, 12:46:33 AM
And, Berkut, you are the most milky whitey white ass of an American I ever met - if race relations were so good in the US, you would have at least a mix of other ethnic groups in you. As it is, not only you are European, your ancestors seem to have preserved your "racial purity" with an impressive efficiency.

:XD: That's fucking hilarious.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Josquius

Quote from: grumbler on August 16, 2015, 06:29:06 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 16, 2015, 03:54:27 AM
It's called a figure of speech.

It's called bullshit hyperbole...  when people are too polite to say "a lie."

"99%" is not a "figure of speech."  If you were a non native speaker it would be forgivable to think so but.... Wow.
Yes it is.
How can you not know that?
You're a moron.
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grumbler

The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Josquius

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Berkut

Whether it is a figure of speech or not is immaterial.

What is material is the desire to dismiss a serious problem by pretending like it is nothing to worry about because it is just some silly Muslim kids, nothing to do with "Real" Europeans.

Because you know, anti-Semitism in Europe was gone before those dastardly Muslim teens came along!

Figure of speech or not, the sentiment the statement reflects is very disturbing. Right up there with Fox pundits saying racism is no longer an issue - that level of denial.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Martinus

I don't know about other Western European countries, but at least this article from January this year from Telegraph (so a respectable daily and not a tabloid) about the situation in Britain seems to echo the sentiment voiced by Tyr:

QuoteThe rising tide of anti-Semitism

By Andrew Gilligan 8:55AM GMT 25 Jan 2015

At a Jewish school in north west London, the five-year-olds are being taught how to respond to a terrorist attack.
"We have regular drills for the children, and they know how to recognise the different alarm signals," says the head teacher. There is a permanent security guard on the premises, and each of the classrooms has been fitted with new locks so they can be "invacuated", their doors secured from inside to act as last-ditch defences between the pupils and a killer.

A few miles to the north, the Jewish Community Secondary School in Barnet, JCoSS, is protected by a security gatehouse and Downing Street-style car-bomb barriers.

In the wake of the anti-Semitic murders of four people in Paris, anxiety has risen so high that some parents have taken to social media, questioning the presence of Muslim cleaners at the school.

Last week Theresa May, the Home Secretary, warned about growing anti-Semitism in Britain. According to one survey this month, a quarter of all British adults agreed that Jews "chase money more than other people" and 45 per cent of British Jews feared their community, the second-largest in Europe, "may not have a future in Britain".

In one sense, the fear may be spiking too high. In London, home to most of the country's Jews, the police say that anti-Semitic incidents have not risen at all since Paris. In the fortnight before the killings, there were 10. In the fortnight after, there were nine.

The 45 per cent figure comes not from a professional poll – but from a survey publicised on Jewish community organisations' mailing lists and social media. Despite efforts to weight the results, the self- selecting nature of the respondents probably skewed the answers. The other poll was done by a professional pollster, but some of the questions seemed rather loaded.

Patrick Moriarty, the head teacher at JCoSS, is among many who cautions against the "lurid fears" expressed in those famous homes of calm and clear-thinking, Twitter and Facebook.

He has written to parents warning against creating "an atmosphere where fear is whipped up and where within the school building people are not able to trust each other ... I felt there was a need to come back to what this school stands for, what Judaism stands for in terms of tolerance, equality and respect, because otherwise the actions of extremists turn us all into extremists."

Yet there are broader problems, which should give greater cause for alarm. New figures next month are expected to show that 2014 saw a significant increase in anti-Semitic incidents.

In London alone last year, the Met recorded 358 anti-Semitic crimes, a rise of 121 per cent on the previous year's figure of 162. The Israel-Gaza conflict in July and August caused a large spike in anti- Semitic attacks.

Other figures, from the Community Security Trust to be published next month, are also expected to show a dramatic rise in anti-Semitic incidents.

Per head of population, there were four times more hate crimes against Jewish targets than against Muslims. One Jewish MP, Lee Scott, received five death threats.

"They were saying things like, 'You Jewish pig, we're going to stone you to death'," he says. "Always on the phone, and always on Monday evenings to my parliamentary office when they knew my staff had left."

In parts of Britain, this newspaper has found, anti-Semitism is open, unashamed – and supported by the taxpayer. Only 25 miles north of Barnet, in Luton, one of the town's main mosques, the Luton Islamic Centre, publishes statements on its website describing Jews as the "brethren of swine and pigs" and calling for "victory over the Jews and the rest of the enemies of Islam".

One text on the "Palestinian Crisis" asks: "How do the brethren of swine and pigs [Jews] have the upper hand over the best Ummah among all the other nations [Muslims]?"


Another text states: "The Jews strive their utmost to corrupt the beliefs, morals and manners of the Muslims."
After the Paris attacks, the mosque tweeted a lecture by Qadeer Baksh, its imam, saying that Muslims would be caused "much harm" by the "Christians and the Jews, the extremists among them".


But, surprisingly given its views, an organisation closely linked to the mosque has been awarded public money for projects to rehabilitate Muslim former offenders and to "work with young people" in Luton.

The Ethnic Minority Training Project, chaired by one of the mosque's trustees and run by an activist at the mosque, has received at least £75,000 from the local council, the Department for Work and Pensions, the EU and other bodies. According to the mosque's website, it is a "partner" in the project with the Bedfordshire Probation Service and The Mount, one of the local prisons.

Luton is not the only place where groups with alleged links to anti-Semites have collected a subsidy. In 2013, a charity called the Peace Giving Foundation received a lottery grant of £118,000 to run a programme "empowering ethnic minority women".

At the time, the Peace Giving Foundation shared directors (and continues to share an address) with the Islamic Education and Research Academy (IERA), which sends extremist speakers to mosques and university societies.
Abdurraheem Green, the founder and head of IERA, once demanded that a Jewish man be removed from his sight when preaching at Speaker's Corner.


He has also said that the Jewish homeland is a "myth" and British public opinion is "totally hostage to the Zionist-controlled media".

Other IERA speakers include Sheikh Abdullah Hakim Quick, who has called all Jews "filth". Past members of the group's advisory board are Hussain Yee, who blamed the Jews for 9/11, and Haitham al-Haddad, who described them as "the descendants of apes and pigs".

More than £39,000 of the lottery grant has already been paid. The Big Lottery Fund said last night that payment of the remaining £78,000 had been stopped pending an investigation into the Peace Giving Foundation's "connections".
One step back from the open bigotry of people like this, it has long been a favourite rhetorical device of anti-Semites to associate British Jews with the behaviour of the Israeli government.

As it happens, anti-Semitic incidents were already rising sharply in the first half of 2014, before the Israel-Gaza conflict began – but July, when the crisis started, saw an even bigger spike. That month, according to the London mayor's office for policing and crime, 95 per cent of all hate crime in the capital was directed against Jewish targets.
Given this, Jewish community leaders in north London say they are troubled by a letter from Helen King, assistant commissioner at Scotland Yard, to a local MP saying that supporters of both sides "are increasingly incensed by new incidents in Gaza", which has "ultimately led to an increase in anti- Semitic incidents and a corresponding rise in Islamophobic offences".

There have in fact been almost no attacks on Muslims by supporters of Israel, let alone a "corresponding rise".
At the 2010 election, Mr Scott and other "Zionist" MPs were targeted for attack leaflets, telephone canvassing and pickets by the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC), an extremist group which has often used the Z-word interchangeably with Israeli or Jewish (it described the Talmud as a "Zionist holy book", though it was written centuries before Zionism existed).


MPAC borrows the words of Abdullah Azzam, mentor to Osama bin Laden, to describe itself as a "vanguard" of those who "sacrifice their souls and their blood in order to bring victory to our ambitions and convictions".
Most of MPAC's boasting about its huge electoral influence can be easily exposed as blowhard lies, but it may indeed have helped change the outcome in strongly Muslim Bradford East.

The incumbent, Labour's Terry Rooney (not Jewish, but pro-Israeli) lost by 365 votes in the 2010 general election after MPAC distributed thousands of leaflets calling him a Zionist Islamophobe and "warmonger" who could not represent Muslims.

The winner, the Liberal Democrat David Ward, has fulfilled all MPAC's wildest hopes. In 2013, he was suspended from the Lib Dem parliamentary party after criticising "the Jews" for inflicting atrocities on the Palestinians and questioning Israel's right to exist.

During the Gaza conflict last year he stated: "If I lived in Gaza, would I fire a rocket? Probably yes." His response to Paris: "Je suis Palestinian."

Until January last year, Mr Ward employed MPAC's spokesman, Raza Nadim, as his constituency assistant.

Britain is one of the least anti-Semitic countries; only 7 per cent in the Pew global attitudes survey feel unfavourably towards Jews, the second-lowest figure in Europe.

Almost none of the incidents reported to the police involves violence. But for British Jews, the pricks of insecurity need not involve guns and bullets; they can come in small ways, such as Mr Ward's choice of staff and words, or the BBC News presenter who said on-air that Jewish donors to Labour "would be very much against the mansion tax".

And as Jeremy Apfel, chairman of Barnet Synagogue, says, "the immediate lesson from France is that failure to stamp out anti-Semitism and attacks on Jews inevitably leads to attacks on democracy itself; historically the Jews have merely served as the hors d'oeuvres".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11367966/The-rising-tide-of-anti-Semitism.html

dps

Quote from: Martinus on August 16, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
I don't know about other Western European countries, but at least this article from January this year from Telegraph (so a respectable daily and not a tabloid) about the situation in Britain seems to echo the sentiment voiced by Tyr:

<snip>

I don't doubt that a considerable amount of anti-Semitic sentiment in Europe comes from the Muslim community, nor that the UK is one of the least anti-Semitic countries in Europe, but neither of those add up to Tyr's contention that modern anti-Semites in Europe are almost exclusively Muslim.

The Brain

Quote"the descendants of apes and pigs"

Delicious poo-slingers?

QuoteBritain is one of the least anti-Semitic countries; only 7 per cent in the Pew global attitudes survey feel unfavourably towards Jews, the second-lowest figure in Europe.

What's the percentage of Muslims in the UK? 5%?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Razgovory

Quote from: Tyr on August 16, 2015, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 16, 2015, 06:29:06 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 16, 2015, 03:54:27 AM
It's called a figure of speech.

It's called bullshit hyperbole...  when people are too polite to say "a lie."

"99%" is not a "figure of speech."  If you were a non native speaker it would be forgivable to think so but.... Wow.
Yes it is.
How can you not know that?
You're a moron.

Okay, what is that particular figure of speech called?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Martinus

Quote from: The Brain on August 16, 2015, 02:09:15 PM
Quote"the descendants of apes and pigs"

Delicious poo-slingers?

QuoteBritain is one of the least anti-Semitic countries; only 7 per cent in the Pew global attitudes survey feel unfavourably towards Jews, the second-lowest figure in Europe.

What's the percentage of Muslims in the UK? 5%?

4.8% :D

Razgovory

Quote

A majority of respondents in a recent Polish national survey believe that there's a Jewish conspiracy to control international banking and the media. And 90% of these Poles say they've never met a Jew.

The national study, conducted by the Center for Research on Prejudice at Warsaw University, found that in Poland, the belief in a Jewish conspiracy remains high – 63% in 2013 – and relatively unchanged from 2009 when 65% of respondents held this belief.

The study also found an 8 percent increase in more traditional forms of anti-Semitism, including blaming Jews for the murder of Jesus Christ and the belief that Christian blood is used in Jewish rituals. Some 23% were found to hold such traditional, religious-based beliefs about Jews.

The study's findings were presented to the Polish Sejm, or parliament, on January 9 by Michal Bilewicz, director of the Center for Research on Prejudice. Bilewicz, an assistant professor on the faculty of psychology at the University of Warsaw, is co-author of the report.

In an email, Bilewicz said that most members of the Polish parliament praised the study and many suggested education measures to fight prejudice. The one skeptical voice, he said, was that of Dorota Arciszewska-Mielewczyk, a center-right Law and Justice Party member, who "suggested that Polish Jews are represented by the Knesset rather than the Polish parliament."

In January 13 phone interview, Arciszewska-Mielewczyk claimed her remarks were taken out of context. Speaking through an interpreter, she said she had expressed her hope that representatives from the Knesset would come to Poland and join the campaign to stop calling the Nazi camps in Poland "Polish concentration camps" — a common complaint among Poles, especially on the right, who take umbrage when camps set up and operated during World War II by the German regime in occupied Poland are labeled as Polish.

According to Arciszewska-Mielewczyk, a Jewish group that was present when she spoke had a "negative and allergic reaction" to her remarks. They also claimed "they had nothing to do with the Knesset," she said, adding that she then asked for clarification about the Knesset's status as a body that represents the Jewish nation worldwide.

Arciszewska-Mielewczyk's remarks reflect a belief common in Poland that Israel's national legislature represents all Jews.

Geographically, the new study's findings suggest that the provinces of Lublin and Lodz in southeastern Poland are the most anti-Semitic regions of the country. This is where the largest Jewish communities existed before the war, and where the ruins of many synagogues still stand, though virtually no Jews live there today.

"It's worse there than in the western parts of Poland," Bilewicz told the Forward in a telephone interview.

Bilewicz noted that hundreds of cemeteries in this region of Poland have been desecrated and proposed that the high level of anti-Semitism in this part of Poland helped explain why — a kind of anti-Semitism without Jews.

"We know that it is based on a very deep anti-Semitism that is so embedded in people's minds that they don't consider it problematic," he said.

Before the Holocaust there were 3.2 million Jews in Poland, compared with an estimated 10,000 Jews today.

According to Zuzanna Radzik, a devout Catholic who supervises the School of Dialogue, a program that seeks to recapture the lost history of the Jewish presence in Poland, the biggest news in the center's survey was the increase in traditional anti-Semitism. She believes it's always existed, but that Poles now feel more comfortable expressing it.

Poland's archly conservative Roman Catholic Church has historically been blamed for perpetuating traditional forms of anti-Semitism. Bilewicz's study, however, finds that anti-Semitism is equally common among believers and those who are not religious. Furthermore, church attendance has declined slightly between 2009 and 2013, a period during which the proportion of people holding traditional anti-Semitic beliefs has risen.

Professor Joanna Tokarska-Bakir, a cultural anthropologist at the Polish Academy of Sciences, who has been investigating the persistence of blood libel beliefs in eastern Poland, argued that the Church nevertheless continues to play a key role. In an email to the Forward, Tokarska-Bakir contended that in school, where Catholic religious classes were reinstituted after the fall of Communism in 1989, students are exposed to lessons that are permeated with anti-Semitic themes.

Despite these high levels of anti-Semitism, there are signs of hope.

The official opening of the new Museum of the History of Polish Jews is scheduled for September 2014. The City of Warsaw and the Ministry of Culture and National Heritage financed its construction. The museum's exhibits show the Jewish contributions to Polish life during the more than 1,000 years that Jews have lived in Poland. Workshops for students are already underway.

Radzik's School of Dialogue also seeks to recover Poland's Jewish past. It deploys educators throughout Poland to make students aware of the places in their towns where Jews once lived and worked, and where there were synagogues and mikvehs. The school also teaches young Poles about Judaism.

The opening of a new Jewish Community Center in Warsaw last October was another step toward the revival of Jewish life in Poland

Read more: http://forward.com/news/world/191155/poland-poll-reveals-stubborn-anti-semitism-amid-je/#ixzz3j0WJUuf6

http://forward.com/news/world/191155/poland-poll-reveals-stubborn-anti-semitism-amid-je/

Must be a lot of undocumented Muslims in that country.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017