The Dutch continue to be ridiculously racist and in denial about it

Started by jimmy olsen, August 14, 2015, 03:07:15 AM

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Valmy

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 03:17:29 PM
Because there is no equivalent in Missouri to the Front National, the Lega Nord, or the Freedom party in Austria.

Oh there absolutely would be if our system of government had lots of small parties like that. But our big tents enable all these people to find homes in our two main parties. But wait didn't you already claim the Libertarians were full of these people? It is funny to you the non-Democrats in the US are hateful racists until you they are not for when you need to attack other countries and cultures.

QuoteBecause blacks have citizenship in the country they are born in unlike say Ethnic Russians in Latvia or Estonia.  No Ethnic Cleansing like in Croatia.  No government attacks on Blacks like the Roma suffer.

Well if you are going to include ethnic conflicts you might as well throw in most of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East in there. Ethnic conflict is a totally different animal than this and yes it is pretty great that we in the new world have a lot less of this. But it is pretty shit to be beating my chest about it because, you know, we have done all of those things to minorities in the past.
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Norgy

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2015, 01:23:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2015, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2015, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2015, 03:34:42 PM
You guys are so nice in Europe.  I'm impressed that you can still commit anti-Semitic crimes in Europe, you have to look really hard for Jews to attack.

Good thing you live in Missouri, the land of racial harmony and justice.

It is a good thing.  I'd much rather be Black in Missouri then a minority group in Europe.

Why? Is being in our prisons amazing? Our amazing public school system?

Because there is no equivalent in Missouri to the Front National, the Lega Nord, or the Freedom party in Austria.  Because blacks have citizenship in the country they are born in unlike say Ethnic Russians in Latvia or Estonia.  No Ethnic Cleansing like in Croatia.  No government attacks on Blacks like the Roma suffer.

Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

grumbler

Quote from: Norgy on August 15, 2015, 04:39:17 PM
Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Just like his argument that I am somehow some kind of "Libertarian," except for the "valid" part.  :lol:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

Quote from: Norgy on August 15, 2015, 04:39:17 PM


Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia in the 1990's.  Now a member in the EU.  Countries like Latvia have a large number of Russians who were born in those countries but can't get Latvian citizenship because must first pass a citizenship test in a language they don't know.  Also part of the EU.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2015, 04:10:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 03:17:29 PM
Because there is no equivalent in Missouri to the Front National, the Lega Nord, or the Freedom party in Austria.

Oh there absolutely would be if our system of government had lots of small parties like that. But our big tents enable all these people to find homes in our two main parties. But wait didn't you already claim the Libertarians were full of these people? It is funny to you the non-Democrats in the US are hateful racists until you they are not for when you need to attack other countries and cultures.

QuoteBecause blacks have citizenship in the country they are born in unlike say Ethnic Russians in Latvia or Estonia.  No Ethnic Cleansing like in Croatia.  No government attacks on Blacks like the Roma suffer.

Well if you are going to include ethnic conflicts you might as well throw in most of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East in there. Ethnic conflict is a totally different animal than this and yes it is pretty great that we in the new world have a lot less of this. But it is pretty shit to be beating my chest about it because, you know, we have done all of those things to minorities in the past.

Libertarian and constitutional party get like 1% of the vote.  Freedom party and National front have been major political parties.  And are you seriously going to consider some protests in a small suburb of St. Louis similar to the refugee crisis that occurred in the 1990's?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2015, 04:10:15 PM
But it is pretty shit to be beating my chest about it because, you know, we have done all of those things to minorities in the past.

So you can't take pride in what you have now because of what your forefathers did?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Razgovory

Let's keep in mind what start this attack on Raz.  I was responding to Marty's statements that the US is in no position to lecture Europeans on race relations.  And while I deplore the news letter that former presidential Libertarian Presidential candidate put out, they were just news letters.  At the same time those documents were produced Europeans were slaughtering one another on the basis of ethnicity in the Balkans while the rest of Europe was either incapable or unwilling to do something without US help in the situation.  Not exactly comparable situations.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Norgy

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: Norgy on August 15, 2015, 04:39:17 PM


Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia in the 1990's.  Now a member in the EU.  Countries like Latvia have a large number of Russians who were born in those countries but can't get Latvian citizenship because must first pass a citizenship test in a language they don't know.  Also part of the EU.

Did you ever hear of the Krajina Republic?

Raz, for your own good, stop making silly arguments.

Razgovory

I'm not certain why pointing out European war criminals demonstrates how Europeans are so good on race issues.  Please explain that one to me.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Norgy

I am not pointing out war criminals, I am trying to get you to realise that in Yugoslavia, there was a spread of ethnicities.

If you are going to use the WORST examples of Europe, we'll continue to use your lack of civil rights for blacks up until RFK/LBJ, the Jim Crow laws and indeed that the southern part of your varied country seceded on the issue of slavery.


In the end, it's sort of useless to point fingers. Immigrants from Europe sort of eradicated the real inhabitants of North America, and yet here you are.
You are a European. White and from a previous generation of genocidal people who couldn't hack it in the Old World.

dps

Quote from: Norgy on August 15, 2015, 07:10:38 PM
I am not pointing out war criminals, I am trying to get you to realise that in Yugoslavia, there was a spread of ethnicities.

If you are going to use the WORST examples of Europe, we'll continue to use your lack of civil rights for blacks up until RFK/LBJ, the Jim Crow laws and indeed that the southern part of your varied country seceded on the issue of slavery.

In the end, it's sort of useless to point fingers. Immigrants from Europe sort of eradicated the real inhabitants of North America, and yet here you are.
You are a European. White and from a previous generation of genocidal people who couldn't hack it in the Old World.

He's not using the WORST examples from Europe, he's using relatively limited examples of ethnically based injustices from the last quarter century or so.  For the WORST examples, he'd have to go back 70 years or so.  And you don't have much room to talk about that if you want to go back 50/70/150 years in our history.

Josquius

Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 02:50:36 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 15, 2015, 10:14:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 08:54:02 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 15, 2015, 03:35:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory link=topic=13187.msg899999#msg899999

You guys are so nice in Europe.  I'm impressed that you can still commit anti-Semitic crimes in Europe, you have to look really hard for Jews to attack.
'Still'?
Don't confuse modern anti semitism with classic anti semitism (in Western Europe anyway).
99% of modern anti semitism is ignorant semi educated Muslim kids who can't tell the difference between a Jew and an Israeli.

Got a source to back up that stat?
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/01/22/379119380/for-many-french-jews-anti-semitism-has-a-clear-source
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/13/study-exposes-depth-of-muslim-antisemitism-in-europe/

I'm saying nothing radical really.
The far right is concerned more with Muslims and other visible minorities than Jews.

Nope.  Nowhere does it say that 99% of antisemitism is the fault of Muslims.
Try clicking on the links. It helps.
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Josquius

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2015, 03:05:53 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 15, 2015, 03:35:02 AM
99% of modern anti semitism is ignorant semi educated Muslim kids who can't tell the difference between a Jew and an Israeli.

Suggesting that if they were bona fide Israelis they would deserve what they get?  :hmm:
Not at all.
Suggesting the attackers are fucking idiots who don't even know what they're attacking - yes
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grumbler

Quote from: Tyr on August 15, 2015, 07:24:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 15, 2015, 02:50:36 PM
Nope.  Nowhere does it say that 99% of antisemitism is the fault of Muslims.
Try clicking on the links. It helps.
The only 99 in either article is the two middle numbers in "the 1990s" in the middle of the third paragraph of the second article.

Try clicking on those links and doing the search yourself.  Maybe you meant two other articles?

The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!