The Dutch continue to be ridiculously racist and in denial about it

[Valmy]

Because there is no equivalent in Missouri to the Front National, the Lega Nord, or the Freedom party in Austria.

Oh there absolutely would be if our system of government had lots of small parties like that. But our big tents enable all these people to find homes in our two main parties. But wait didn't you already claim the Libertarians were full of these people? It is funny to you the non-Democrats in the US are hateful racists until you they are not for when you need to attack other countries and cultures.

Because blacks have citizenship in the country they are born in unlike say Ethnic Russians in Latvia or Estonia.  No Ethnic Cleansing like in Croatia.  No government attacks on Blacks like the Roma suffer.

Well if you are going to include ethnic conflicts you might as well throw in most of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East in there. Ethnic conflict is a totally different animal than this and yes it is pretty great that we in the new world have a lot less of this. But it is pretty shit to be beating my chest about it because, you know, we have done all of those things to minorities in the past.

[Eddie Teach]

Quiet, Valmy. Whose side are you on anyway?

[Norgy]

You guys are so nice in Europe.  I'm impressed that you can still commit anti-Semitic crimes in Europe, you have to look really hard for Jews to attack.

Good thing you live in Missouri, the land of racial harmony and justice.

It is a good thing.  I'd much rather be Black in Missouri then a minority group in Europe.

Why? Is being in our prisons amazing? Our amazing public school system?

Because there is no equivalent in Missouri to the Front National, the Lega Nord, or the Freedom party in Austria.  Because blacks have citizenship in the country they are born in unlike say Ethnic Russians in Latvia or Estonia.  No Ethnic Cleansing like in Croatia.  No government attacks on Blacks like the Roma suffer.

Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

[grumbler]

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Just like his argument that I am somehow some kind of "Libertarian," except for the "valid" part. 

[Razgovory]

Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia in the 1990's.  Now a member in the EU.  Countries like Latvia have a large number of Russians who were born in those countries but can't get Latvian citizenship because must first pass a citizenship test in a language they don't know.  Also part of the EU.

[Razgovory]

Because there is no equivalent in Missouri to the Front National, the Lega Nord, or the Freedom party in Austria.

Oh there absolutely would be if our system of government had lots of small parties like that. But our big tents enable all these people to find homes in our two main parties. But wait didn't you already claim the Libertarians were full of these people? It is funny to you the non-Democrats in the US are hateful racists until you they are not for when you need to attack other countries and cultures.

Because blacks have citizenship in the country they are born in unlike say Ethnic Russians in Latvia or Estonia.  No Ethnic Cleansing like in Croatia.  No government attacks on Blacks like the Roma suffer.

Well if you are going to include ethnic conflicts you might as well throw in most of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East in there. Ethnic conflict is a totally different animal than this and yes it is pretty great that we in the new world have a lot less of this. But it is pretty shit to be beating my chest about it because, you know, we have done all of those things to minorities in the past.

Libertarian and constitutional party get like 1% of the vote.  Freedom party and National front have been major political parties.  And are you seriously going to consider some protests in a small suburb of St. Louis similar to the refugee crisis that occurred in the 1990's?

[garbon]

But it is pretty shit to be beating my chest about it because, you know, we have done all of those things to minorities in the past.

So you can't take pride in what you have now because of what your forefathers did?

[Razgovory]

Let's keep in mind what start this attack on Raz.  I was responding to Marty's statements that the US is in no position to lecture Europeans on race relations.  And while I deplore the news letter that former presidential Libertarian Presidential candidate put out, they were just news letters.  At the same time those documents were produced Europeans were slaughtering one another on the basis of ethnicity in the Balkans while the rest of Europe was either incapable or unwilling to do something without US help in the situation.  Not exactly comparable situations.

[Norgy]

Ethnic Russians (mostly) have citizenships in those countries, unless they want to keep their Russian one. Dual citizenships are rare in Europe. Their claims to have their language recognised are refuted, though. Then again, the Balts were among Hitler's most willing accomplices outside the Croats and Ukrainians. And the Flemish. So you must've read at least one history book.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia? What the hell are you on, man? Unless you are counting the Ustashe, which was 70 years ago, the Serbs did most of the cleansing during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.

The treatment of the Roma is shameful, I agree.

If that is supposed to be a coherent argument about how terrible Europe is, you should've at least taken into account the enormous failure of the EU and other European countries to actually help refugees from Syria and those migrants crossing the Med from North Africa.

Your point that racism exists in Europe is valid. Your argument is incoherent and incredibly juvenile, though.

Ethnic cleansing in Croatia in the 1990's.  Now a member in the EU.  Countries like Latvia have a large number of Russians who were born in those countries but can't get Latvian citizenship because must first pass a citizenship test in a language they don't know.  Also part of the EU.

Did you ever hear of the Krajina Republic?

Raz, for your own good, stop making silly arguments.

[Razgovory]

I'm not certain why pointing out European war criminals demonstrates how Europeans are so good on race issues.  Please explain that one to me.

[Norgy]

I am not pointing out war criminals, I am trying to get you to realise that in Yugoslavia, there was a spread of ethnicities.

If you are going to use the WORST examples of Europe, we'll continue to use your lack of civil rights for blacks up until RFK/LBJ, the Jim Crow laws and indeed that the southern part of your varied country seceded on the issue of slavery.


In the end, it's sort of useless to point fingers. Immigrants from Europe sort of eradicated the real inhabitants of North America, and yet here you are.
You are a European. White and from a previous generation of genocidal people who couldn't hack it in the Old World.

[dps]

I am not pointing out war criminals, I am trying to get you to realise that in Yugoslavia, there was a spread of ethnicities.

If you are going to use the WORST examples of Europe, we'll continue to use your lack of civil rights for blacks up until RFK/LBJ, the Jim Crow laws and indeed that the southern part of your varied country seceded on the issue of slavery.

In the end, it's sort of useless to point fingers. Immigrants from Europe sort of eradicated the real inhabitants of North America, and yet here you are.
You are a European. White and from a previous generation of genocidal people who couldn't hack it in the Old World.

He's not using the WORST examples from Europe, he's using relatively limited examples of ethnically based injustices from the last quarter century or so.  For the WORST examples, he'd have to go back 70 years or so.  And you don't have much room to talk about that if you want to go back 50/70/150 years in our history.

[Josquius]

You guys are so nice in Europe.  I'm impressed that you can still commit anti-Semitic crimes in Europe, you have to look really hard for Jews to attack.

'Still'?
Don't confuse modern anti semitism with classic anti semitism (in Western Europe anyway).
99% of modern anti semitism is ignorant semi educated Muslim kids who can't tell the difference between a Jew and an Israeli.

Got a source to back up that stat?

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/01/22/379119380/for-many-french-jews-anti-semitism-has-a-clear-source
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/13/study-exposes-depth-of-muslim-antisemitism-in-europe/

I'm saying nothing radical really.
The far right is concerned more with Muslims and other visible minorities than Jews.

Nope.  Nowhere does it say that 99% of antisemitism is the fault of Muslims.

Try clicking on the links. It helps.

[Josquius]

99% of modern anti semitism is ignorant semi educated Muslim kids who can't tell the difference between a Jew and an Israeli.

Suggesting that if they were bona fide Israelis they would deserve what they get? 

Not at all.
Suggesting the attackers are fucking idiots who don't even know what they're attacking - yes

[grumbler]

Nope.  Nowhere does it say that 99% of antisemitism is the fault of Muslims.

Try clicking on the links. It helps.

The only 99 in either article is the two middle numbers in "the 1990s" in the middle of the third paragraph of the second article.

Try clicking on those links and doing the search yourself.  Maybe you meant two other articles?