What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[DGuller]

Let's face it, we think Raz is over-Razzing the Gaza thing because of his mental health issues because we know he has mental health issues.

If Raz was some random new poster, Sophie wouldn't suggesting he changes his medication. So it IS a personal attack.

I didn't see it as attack as much as concern, one which I am sharing.

It's an attack expressed as a "concern", in order to delegitimize someone's viewpoint.  Unless you're completely lacking in social skills, you don't express such concern publicly that sounds very much like a denunciation.

[crazy canuck]

Let's face it, we think Raz is over-Razzing the Gaza thing because of his mental health issues because we know he has mental health issues.

If Raz was some random new poster, Sophie wouldn't suggesting he changes his medication. So it IS a personal attack.

I didn't see it as attack as much as concern, one which I am sharing.

It's an attack expressed as a "concern", in order to delegitimize someone's viewpoint.  Unless you're completely lacking in social skills, you don't express such concern publicly that sounds very much like a denunciation.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to sound like we were denounce somebody who strongly advocates the killing of civilians. Nope we live in a world where anti-woke forces don't allow that sort of thing in the name of freedom of expression. Or they're just a fucking Russian troll.

[Norgy]

It is rather ironic that this happens in a thread about the great delegitimiser The Donald.

Is this the new Incan Torpedo Boat? 

[DGuller]

Let's face it, we think Raz is over-Razzing the Gaza thing because of his mental health issues because we know he has mental health issues.

If Raz was some random new poster, Sophie wouldn't suggesting he changes his medication. So it IS a personal attack.

I didn't see it as attack as much as concern, one which I am sharing.

It's an attack expressed as a "concern", in order to delegitimize someone's viewpoint.  Unless you're completely lacking in social skills, you don't express such concern publicly that sounds very much like a denunciation.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to sound like we were denounce somebody who strongly advocates the killing of civilians. Nope we live in a world where anti-woke forces don't allow that sort of thing in the name of freedom of expression. Or they're just a fucking Russian troll.

So what you're saying is that Sophie's "concern" really was a denunciation? 

[DGuller]

Why does Trump and racism not become tedious?

Raz, you keep bringing that up as a defense that youre being singled out, but is there a poster who tries to waylay every thread into a discussion about how bad Trump is? Once again it's not the topic, it's  insisting on dragging every  conversation, whether it's anyway related or not, into the same topic that's the issue.

You say people are annoyed because the topic is uncomfortable, but the Israel discussion thread is over 400 pages long, so clearly discussing it isn't an issue. Until, that is, every thread becomes a discussion on it.

We have threads that constantly digress on Trump, it's not really any different.

Raz, I agree with you, but I also agree with HVC.  I do think that you are making people squirm because you are effectively digging at their cognitive dissonance.  I am utterly convinced that no one here would be expressing "concern", or issuing ban threats, if you were doing everything that you were doing, but taking the opposite side of the argument.

That said, at some point, what are you achieving by continuously picking on their cognitive dissonance?  I understand how hard it can be to win the argument on facts, but have it nullified because the loser is part of a clique and you aren't.  Unfortunately, that clique's dissonance isn't going to go away, but they can make you go away.  That won't help them, it won't help you, and it won't help the people you think are in the right.

[DGuller]

DG, please never reply to my comments, mention me directly, or reference me indirectly again. I'll be more than happy to reciprocate. Thank you and goodbye. 

I'll do the best I can, but if you (or anyone else) weaponize people's disclosed mental health issues against them, I will step in regardless of who it is.  Frankly I think it's everyone duty to do that, it's one of the most sacred norms we have to upkeep here.

[Sophie Scholl]

 

[HVC]

Dguller, pizza is inarguably great, right? Now do me a small favour and imagine yourself in a room with someone who insists on extolling the virtues of pizza nonstop and to the exclusion of all other topics. Worse still there are other people in the room too and anytime you try to have a conversation with them said person interrupts to talk about how great pizza is. How long before you find the situation annoying? A day, a month, the two years that have passed here on languish? And when you find it annoying is it because of your cognitive dissonance or because they won't shut the fuck up about pizza.

I don't get why you two are trying to find some subtextual layer to the blindingly obvious. For someone who purports to  endeavour to fact based discussion above all else your reasoning seems very emotional to me.

*edit* anyway, this is starting to become my own personal obsession it seems . I've said my peace, I tried to say something because I miss old Raz, but going in circles helps no one and I'm verging (already passed? ) on annoying others.

[DGuller]

Dguller, pizza is inarguably great, right? Now do me a small favour and imagine yourself in a room with someone who insists on extolling the virtues of pizza nonstop and to the exclusion of all other topics. Worse still there are other people in the room too and anytime you try to have a conversation with them said person interrupts to talk about how great pizza is. How long before you find the situation annoying? A day, a month, the two years that have passed here on languish? And when you find it annoying is it because of your cognitive dissonance or because they won't shut the fuck up about pizza.

I don't get why you two are trying to find some subtextual layer to the blindingly obvious. For someone who purports to  endeavour to fact based discussion above all else your reasoning seems very emotional to me.

*edit* anyway, this is starting to become my own personal obsession it seems . I've said my peace, I tried to say something because I miss old Raz, but going in circles helps no one and I'm verging (already passed? ) on annoying others.

I just don't think it's as simple as that.  CC tries to belittle or patronize someone in every conversation as well, often with little connection to topic being discussed, but while that can create a hostile environment, it rarely derails things. 

Why is it different with Raz?  Because he's actually striking a nerve.  You can't just swat away what he says, even though many people are looking for justifications to do exactly that.

[crazy canuck]

Let's face it, we think Raz is over-Razzing the Gaza thing because of his mental health issues because we know he has mental health issues.

If Raz was some random new poster, Sophie wouldn't suggesting he changes his medication. So it IS a personal attack.

I didn't see it as attack as much as concern, one which I am sharing.

It's an attack expressed as a "concern", in order to delegitimize someone's viewpoint.  Unless you're completely lacking in social skills, you don't express such concern publicly that sounds very much like a denunciation.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to sound like we were denounce somebody who strongly advocates the killing of civilians. Nope we live in a world where anti-woke forces don't allow that sort of thing in the name of freedom of expression. Or they're just a fucking Russian troll.

So what you're saying is that Sophie's "concern" really was a denunciation? 

No, I'm saying that Sophie's comment was based on the fact that obviously something is going wrong in his life for him to take the position that killing civilians is really a good thing.

But hey, play along with him all you want and encourage him that that is a really good thing to do. I'm sure that that's really gonna help him.

[DGuller]

No, I'm saying that Sophie's comment was based on the fact that obviously something is going wrong in his life for him to take the position that killing civilians is really a good thing.

But hey, play along with him all you want and encourage him that that is a really good thing to do. I'm sure that that's really gonna help him.

I won't pretend to know much about psychiatry, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is that gaslighting won't help anyone, least of all someone who's open with mental health issues.  That's not concern, that's cruelty dressed up as virtue.

[The Minsky Moment]

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-834585

This is a joke, right?
They are referring to a population decline over 100 years!

And the "study" is not a independent academic study including Palestinian or even Christian scholars.  It's written by an Israeli army officer and it is published by the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs, a political pressure group advocating annexation in the West Bank under the euphemism "Defensible Borders for Israel"

Of course there has been a massive decline in the Christian population in Palestine, because it's a lot easier for them to leave for the West than the Muslim population.  Who would stay if they could leave?  Multiple wars followed by a brutal occupation featuring a systematic suffocation of economic opportunity, outright land theft, and uncheck harassment from illegal settlers.  Of course they leave.

[Razgovory]

The population of Gaza went from 5,000 to less than 1,000 under Hamas rule and there are plenty of reports of harassment, forced conversion and land theft by the PA.  So let's not pretend there is a "well tolerated" Christian community in Palestine.

[Razgovory]

No, I'm saying that Sophie's comment was based on the fact that obviously something is going wrong in his life for him to take the position that killing civilians is really a good thing.

But hey, play along with him all you want and encourage him that that is a really good thing to do. I'm sure that that's really gonna help him.

I didn't say it was a good thing.  I said it is not, by itself, wrong.  It is legal under the laws of war.  You are not allowed to target civilians and you are suppose to avoid killing them, but it is not illegal to actually kill them.

[Josquius]

Shouldn't we move this to the swamp?