The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

Honestly (....) I've never had much bother with the famous Dutch bluntness.
But then I think I do sway that way a bit myself.

I do find Dutch "honesty" a bit too much some times

That was definitely a take away I had from my time in Europe.

Are Texans fake with their pretended friendliness all the time? Yes. Yes we are. We will pretend to like you even if we hate you. But do you know what? I am ok with that. Having to deal with people's honesty all the time is annoying.

The problem I find with the American way is that its just all surface. The real feelings aren't hidden in there.
With Brits or Japanese for instance it's be reasonably clear we are politely telling you to fuck off.

I'd disagree. If you are familiar with the English it is clear but those with incidental contact are bewildered by what English people mean. I still have to check what sort of fine my husband means when he says 'fine'.

[Maladict]

I'd disagree. If you are familiar with the English it is clear but those with incidental contact are bewildered by what English people mean. I still have to check what sort of fine my husband means when he says 'fine'.

So do I with my American wife 

[The Brain]

I'd disagree. If you are familiar with the English it is clear but those with incidental contact are bewildered by what English people mean. I still have to check what sort of fine my husband means when he says 'fine'.

So do I with my American wife 

How many wives do you have?

[Valmy]

The problem I find with the American way is that its just all surface. The real feelings aren't hidden in there.
With Brits or Japanese for instance it'll be reasonably clear we are politely telling you to fuck off.

Sure. It is just all surface. But I am fine with that.

But it isn't reasonably clear at all to people who are not from here. When I was in college many of my friends were Euros and I had to explain to them that all those people being nice to them actually weren't their friends.

[crazy canuck]

That was definitely a take away I had from my time in Europe.

Are Texans fake with their pretended friendliness all the time? Yes. Yes we are. We will pretend to like you even if we hate you. But do you know what? I am ok with that. Having to deal with people's honesty all the time is annoying.

Yeah Brits are dishonest/hide what they really feel. But I think that's worth it and is just politeness

I have a friend who did his PhD in the Netherlands and the "directness" almost destroyed him mentally. He had some horror stories and to British ears some just seem incredibly rude - and in some cases just an excuse to be racist.

You called to mind the time we were sitting in a restaurant with a Dutch friend who pointed at a woman with obvious and badly done plastic surgery and exclaimed in a loud voice, "Oh my God, look at the damage she has done to her face".  We recoiled and our friend said to us, "what? it's true!"

On one level I love her sincerity, but she could be a bit more polite.

[Threviel]

Did the woman hear it? I mean, I'm laughing at the botox trolls all the time, but not to their faces.

[Josquius]

Did the woman hear it? I mean, I'm laughing at the botox trolls all the time, but not to their faces.

Yeah, their Russian mafia husbands shouldn't be poked.

[Maladict]

You called to mind the time we were sitting in a restaurant with a Dutch friend who pointed at a woman with obvious and badly done plastic surgery and exclaimed in a loud voice, "Oh my God, look at the damage she has done to her face".  We recoiled and our friend said to us, "what? it's true!"

On one level I love her sincerity, but she could be a bit more polite.

It probably didn't raise any eyebrows.

[crazy canuck]

You called to mind the time we were sitting in a restaurant with a Dutch friend who pointed at a woman with obvious and badly done plastic surgery and exclaimed in a loud voice, "Oh my God, look at the damage she has done to her face".  We recoiled and our friend said to us, "what? it's true!"

On one level I love her sincerity, but she could be a bit more polite.

It probably didn't raise any eyebrows.

 

Did the woman hear it? I mean, I'm laughing at the botox trolls all the time, but not to their faces.

I don't know how she couldn't have. Unless she had work done to her ears too.

[Threviel]

Did the woman hear it? I mean, I'm laughing at the botox trolls all the time, but not to their faces.

I don't know how she couldn't have. Unless she had work done to her ears too.

Ohh, that is harsh. No reason to be nasty, she's a human too, she deserves to be laughed at behind her back like the rest of us.

[barkdreg]

I find the Dutch to be very good at giving their honest opinions but very bad at receiving my honest opinion.

[Maladict]

I find the Dutch to be very good at giving their honest opinions but very bad at receiving my honest opinion.

FU

[Barrister]

I find the Dutch to be very good at giving their honest opinions but very bad at receiving my honest opinion.

FU

[Sheilbh]

Care to share one? Just curious what a Brit would consider beyond the pale.

Obviously Black Pete Or, in a similar vein, the Handelsblad illustrations and headline reviewing Ta-Nehisis Coates.

But specifically he was on the dating apps and saw a girl with "no blacks, no Arabs" in her bio. Him - and basically all of the other international students - thought that was wrong and pretty racist (especially because she can just swipe left). Maybe not all but definitely some Dutch colleagues defended it as basically just saying her preferences - people wouldn't swipe her so "waste" a swipe unless they were white and the end effect would be the same because she'd just swipe left anyway.

Edit: And I think it did say something like she didn't have anything against black people etc, she just wasn't attracted to them.

I should say that when the gay apps first launched you would very often see "no fats, no femmes, no Asians" - but I think that's more or less gone now as unacceptable here and, I think, in the US.

I'd disagree. If you are familiar with the English it is clear but those with incidental contact are bewildered by what English people mean. I still have to check what sort of fine my husband means when he says 'fine'.

Absolutely We even had training on international communications at the law firm I worked at that was basically specifically about this.

I remember the guy saying that on directness to indirectness there's various factors - saying what you mean v talking around it, using humour, using slang or turns of phrase, politeness etc. And on basically all of them the Brits and Japanese were the most extremely indirect (made me think of that anthology book on the English where English and Japanese attitudes on a whole range of issues like privacy, politeness, personal space, social attitudes are basically very, very close).

[Josquius]

To be fair speaking about "the English" as a group is always a great initial marker of wrongness.
Northerners have far more in common with Scots and Welsh than we do southerners. England is pure accident of history.


Sort of on topic, a interesting podcast I heard the other day, about how Appalachia is the way it is because most of the initial settlers were from the north, sometimes via ulster, but subsequent commodified craic and seeing England as a generic blob has largely covered this up.

https://www.rai.ox.ac.uk/article/geordie-south-how-northumbrians-shaped-appalachia