This follows on from the shooting of three French paratroopers of north african origin in the same region last week:
Quote
France shooting: Toulouse Jewish school attack kills four
19 March 12 11:57
A gunman on a scooter has opened fire on a Jewish school in the French city of Toulouse, killing three children and a teacher, police say.
A teenage boy was seriously injured in the attack outside the Ozar Hatorah school in the north-east of the city.
Police say there are similarities with the killings of three soldiers in two separate incidents in the same part of France last week.
All three - of North African origin - were shot by a man on a scooter.
A paratrooper out of uniform was shot dead in a residential area of Toulouse just over a week ago, while two soldiers were killed and a third wounded as they used a cashpoint in the town of Montauban, some 29 miles (46km) away, on Thursday.
But President Nicolas Sarkozy, who has gone to the scene, said it is "much too early" to know if there is a definite link.
"Whatever happens," he said, "faced with this kind of toll, we can say that the French Republic as a whole has been hit by this appalling tragedy."
The grand rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, who is travelling to the south-western city, said he was "horrified" and "stunned" by what had happened.
Israel also said it was horrified, adding that it trusted the French authorities "to shed full light on this tragedy and bring the perpetrators to justice".
Monday's attack happened as children and their parents were arriving at the school, in the Joliment area of the city.
A teacher at the school, believed to be aged 30, and his two children, aged three and six, are reported to have been killed.
The third child killed was aged between eight and 10 years old and belonged to another teacher at the school, French media report.
A 17-year-old was seriously injured.
"[The gunman] shot at everything he could see, children and adults, and some children were chased into the school," local prosecutor Michel Valet said.
.......
rest of article here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-us-canada-17426313 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-us-canada-17426313)
This is not breaking news this is from several hours ago :P
And we will have more anti-semitism in the coming years so we better get used to it.
Quote from: Tamas on March 19, 2012, 08:14:43 AM
This is not breaking news this is from several hours ago :P
And we will have more anti-semitism in the coming years so we better get used to it.
Maybe the three attacks are also link skin colour/looks that's after how your common or garden racist 'reasons' ?
Quote from: mongers on March 19, 2012, 08:34:55 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 19, 2012, 08:14:43 AM
This is not breaking news this is from several hours ago :P
And we will have more anti-semitism in the coming years so we better get used to it.
Maybe the three attacks are also link skin colour/looks that's after how your common or garden racist 'reasons' ?
Come again?
Quote from: Tamas on March 19, 2012, 08:14:43 AM
This is not breaking news this is from several hours ago :P
It is when Languish is down hours at a time. :P
Quote from: Tamas on March 19, 2012, 08:14:43 AM
This is not breaking news this is from several hours ago :P
And we will have more anti-semitism in the coming years so we better get used to it.
So long as Europe is inhabited by Europeans.
Any man who rides a scooter is obviously unbalanced.
Quote from: Kleves on March 19, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
Any man who rides a scooter is obviously unbalanced.
You ever been to Europe? Those things are everywhere. Hell, during the Cold War the French weaponized scooters. Attached recoilless rifles to them.
Quote from: Kleves on March 19, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
Any man who rides a scooter is obviously unbalanced.
and Gay
Quote from: 11B4V on March 19, 2012, 10:10:37 PM
and Gay
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
Looks like a right-wing nutjob, Zoups?
Targeting paratroops from Africa and Caribbean seems like the work of a racist. Targeting Jews in Europe? Could be anybody. ;)
Quote from: Kleves on March 19, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
Any man who rides a scooter is obviously unbalanced.
On the contrary, staying balanced seems like a crucial requirement during such undertaking.
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
I noticed European police often carry machine pistols. I thought that odd.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2012, 12:20:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
I noticed European police often carry machine pistols. I thought that odd.
Maybe they don't teach marksmanship?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2012, 12:20:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
I noticed European police often carry machine pistols. I thought that odd.
Nothing out of the ordinary. While I was stationed in Germany from 87-92, most Polizei carried MP5's IIRC
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FPA7bv5wQJJxZW8r7DS6APQ--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MjA7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2FReuters%2F2012-03-19T210416Z_01_CHP206_RTRIDSP_3_FRANCE-CRIME.jpg&hash=ce70cdf5c0ba4e7a861ea475223bee9a2b64cd40)
Quote from: 11B4V on March 19, 2012, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Kleves on March 19, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
Any man who rides a scooter is obviously unbalanced.
and Gay
What's the hardest part about riding a scooter?
Coming out to your parents.
Quote from: Martinus on March 20, 2012, 03:26:43 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 19, 2012, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Kleves on March 19, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
Any man who rides a scooter is obviously unbalanced.
and Gay
What's the hardest part about riding a scooter?
Coming out to your parents.
lulz, you know you're fucked up when fags are ragging on ya.
I hope this son of a bitch is literally torn limb from limb by an enraged mob.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html
:weep::weep::weep::weep::weep:
Quotelittle girl cornered in school and shot in head
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02172%2F_Toulouse_2172170b.jpg&hash=ea7485530ffba5a4b2c675029a558e03b1dd7088)
Well, seems they have the suspect's house surrounded and a shootout is going on/has been going on.
Looks like they got him.
Huh, thought this would be neo-nazis
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/21/10784684-one-arrested-in-france-jewish-school-slayings-after-shootout-in-toulouse
QuoteOne arrested in France Jewish school slayings after shootout in Toulouse
By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services
Updated at 2:30 a.m. ET: TOULOUSE, France -- A man was arrested early Wednesday in connection with the killings of four people at a Jewish school in France, police sources said. Officers were also involved in a standoff with another suspect amid a shootout at a house in Toulouse.
Two officers were injured during the early-morning raid, local media reported on Wednesday. NBC News reported that the raid was still ongoing at the house in north Toulouse, which is only about 2 miles from the Jewish school, where a rabbi and three children were shot dead.
An elite police team known as RAID were targeting two brothers suspected of being Islamic fundamentalists, NBC News reported. Shots were heard from heavy weaponry.
Police sources told Reuters that a man had been arrested earlier Wednesday at a separate location in connection with the killings.
The other suspect was bunkered in the house and defending himself. Negotiations with the man reportedly failed.
One of the suspects has apparently claimed to be linked to al-Qaida, Interior Minister Claude Gueant said.
"He claims to be a mujahideen and to belong to al-Qaida,'' Gueant told journalists at the scene of the siege.
"He wanted revenge for the Palestinian children and he also wanted to take revenge on the French army because of its foreign interventions,'' he said.
"The suspect's mother... was asked to make contact with her son, to reason with him, but she did not want to, saying she had little influence on him," Gueant added, according to BBC News.
The suspect inside the house said that he trained in the Pakistan and Afghanistan and is affiliated with Forca lesa, an Islamic group dismantled by the French government. The group, which recruits young French to join the jihad, is considered very dangerous.
On Tuesday, Police spread out across southern France by the hundreds in the hunt for an expert gunman suspected in three deadly attacks. Authorities suspect the school killer was also behind two recent attacks in the same area on French paratroopers that left three soldiers dead and one seriously wounded. The victims were of North African and French Caribbean backgrounds.
Police were also talking to the brother of the man who, Gueant said, was 24 years old. Police sources told Reuters that a man had been arrested earlier on Wednesday at a separate location in connection with the killings
A "monster" is on the loose in France, French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared, vowing to track him down.
"There are beings who have no respect for life. When you grab a little girl to put a bullet in her head, without leaving her any chance, you are a monster. An anti-Semitic monster, but first of all a monster," he said.
France was reeling Tuesday after Monday's shooting, the deadliest school shooting in the country and the bloodiest attack on Jewish targets in decades. Schools across the country held a moment of silence Tuesday to honor the victims, who were heading to Israel for burial.
Interior Minister Claude Gueant described the suspect as "someone very cold, very determined, very much a master of his movements, and by consequence, very cruel."
Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Well Slargos will be happy.
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 02:40:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2012, 01:39:26 AM
Huh, thought this would be neo-nazis
seriously?
Since the French soldiers were of North African descent, yeah.
Also, the killer wasn't suicidal.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 20, 2012, 12:48:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2012, 12:20:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
I noticed European police often carry machine pistols. I thought that odd.
Nothing out of the ordinary. While I was stationed in Germany from 87-92, most Polizei carried MP5's IIRC
Yeah, I noticed it in Italy. I thought it strange though. US police don't normally carry them.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2012, 01:39:26 AM
Huh, thought this would be neo-nazis
That's because you're an idiot.
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
Quote from: Cecil on March 21, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
I'll give you 5-1. :mellow:
Quote from: Martinus on March 21, 2012, 04:40:44 AM
yeah wtf. I didn't know even Timmy is that idiotic.
On the one hand I'd be surprised if there are French neo-Nazis (given France's history with Nazi Germany) at all, but on the other hand I'm sure there are a few Le Lettou's floating around in France. :)
Timmay's surprise is legit, given the media reports that French cops were allegedly thinking the same. From an article above:
QuoteThere were reports in France that police were looking for three former soldiers of the logistics regiment sacked for "neo-Nazi" activities. The men were all ejected from the army in 2008 after a photograph emerged of them making Nazi salutes in front of a swastika. "Police are interested in locating those men to see if there may be some connection," said a source close to the investigation.
Quote from: citizen k on March 20, 2012, 03:22:58 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FPA7bv5wQJJxZW8r7DS6APQ--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MjA7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2FReuters%2F2012-03-19T210416Z_01_CHP206_RTRIDSP_3_FRANCE-CRIME.jpg&hash=ce70cdf5c0ba4e7a861ea475223bee9a2b64cd40)
Yeah this banner seems to suggest this is a 'French are racists' neo-Nazi thing rather than 'In France Islamic Terrorists are killing Arabs, Blacks, and Jews.' So Timmy wasn't alone in this.
Quote from: Caliga on March 21, 2012, 06:31:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 21, 2012, 04:40:44 AM
yeah wtf. I didn't know even Timmy is that idiotic.
On the one hand I'd be surprised if there are French neo-Nazis (given France's history with Nazi Germany) at all, but on the other hand I'm sure there are a few Le Lettou's floating around in France. :)
Russia has tons of Neo-Nazis despite their history with Germany, why wouldn't France?
When I heard paratroopers and Jews, I immediately assumed Algerian (with a long memory... it was paratroops that took Corsica and overthrew the 4th Republic so they could keep occupying Algeria). I didn't know that the troops were themselves North African, though.
And it looks like he's still holed up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17462604 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17462604)
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on March 21, 2012, 09:09:27 AM
When I heard paratroopers and Jews, I immediately assumed Algerian (with a long memory... it was paratroops that took Corsica and overthrew the 4th Republic so they could keep occupying Algeria). I didn't know that the troops were themselves North African, though.
They didn't take Corsica or overthrow the 4th Republic...since the coup happened during the 5th Republic.
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2012, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on March 21, 2012, 09:09:27 AM
When I heard paratroopers and Jews, I immediately assumed Algerian (with a long memory... it was paratroops that took Corsica and overthrew the 4th Republic so they could keep occupying Algeria). I didn't know that the troops were themselves North African, though.
They didn't take Corsica or overthrow the 4th Republic...since the coup happened during the 5th Republic.
The 4th Republic ended in 1958 with the Algiers Crisis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Fourth_Republic#Decolonization_and_end_of_the_Fourth_Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Fourth_Republic#Decolonization_and_end_of_the_Fourth_Republic)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2012, 02:43:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 02:40:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2012, 01:39:26 AM
Huh, thought this would be neo-nazis
seriously?
Since the French soldiers were of North African descent, yeah.
Also, the killer wasn't suicidal.
I think one was Cameroonian too. Which again made me think it was more likely to be a neo-Nazi.
Sorry wrong coup. I was thinking of the 1961 coup where the Foreign Legion parachute regiment was disbanded since that one, specifically, was in reaction to the DeGaulle's decision to pull out of Algeria.
Sarko :bleeding:
Apparently he's gone to the siege in Toulouse. It's like Churchill in Sidney Street.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2012, 09:42:58 AM
Sarko :bleeding:
Apparently he's gone to the siege in Toulouse. It's like Churchill in Sidney Street.
Will he signal 'V' for victory?
Quote from: Caliga on March 21, 2012, 06:31:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 21, 2012, 04:40:44 AM
yeah wtf. I didn't know even Timmy is that idiotic.
On the one hand I'd be surprised if there are French neo-Nazis (given France's history with Nazi Germany) at all, but on the other hand I'm sure there are a few Le Lettou's floating around in France. :)
There are Polish neonazis. Neonazis: not very smart.
I wasn't trying to join Mock Tim bandwagon here... hence my second sentence about French Lettows. :)
That guy is still alive after all this time? Those machine pistols aren't so tough after all, it seems.
Quote from: DGuller on March 21, 2012, 02:06:24 PM
That guy is still alive after all this time? Those machine pistols aren't so tough after all, it seems.
They ARE French armed guys, after all. We are lucky they haven't surrendered to the terrorist yet.
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 21, 2012, 02:06:24 PM
That guy is still alive after all this time? Those machine pistols aren't so tough after all, it seems.
They ARE French armed guys, after all. We are lucky they haven't surrendered to the terrorist yet.
I'll not tolerate false and disparaging stereotypes of the French in my presence. Particularly from somebody in an Adidas track suit.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2012, 12:20:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
I noticed European police often carry machine pistols. I thought that odd.
Yeah, but when they carry pistols they often have faggy .380's.
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 02:19:08 PM
They ARE French armed guys, after all. We are lucky they haven't surrendered to the terrorist yet.
Whatever you guys lost to the Romanians.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 20, 2012, 12:20:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 19, 2012, 11:15:08 PM
Everyone back home is horrified. Dude best leave the country if he can, he won't make it to trial alive. Les gendarmes are trigger happy when it comes to shit like this.
I noticed European police often carry machine pistols. I thought that odd.
It's very weird and somewhat terrifying.
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2012, 02:44:40 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 02:19:08 PM
They ARE French armed guys, after all. We are lucky they haven't surrendered to the terrorist yet.
Whatever you guys lost to the Romanians.
WTF we did not
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
WTF we did not
1919?
Yeah right, a country surrounded by enemies including the Entente, with a freshly re-formed army, deeply tormented by the conflicts of Red political and White military leadership, still manages to kick the Czechs out of Slovaka, just for the Reds to agree to demands on abandoning all liberated territories there in exchange of Romanian withdrawal from what is today the center of the country. We oblige, the Romanians do not, which results in a hasty offensive against them, with an ill-prepared and demoralized army against a dug-in enemy on the other side of a major river.
The ensuing collapse is what opens the Romanian road to Budapest.
A shameful event no doubt but it had absolutely nothing to do with Romanian strength.
Which reminds me, one has to feel certain admiration for the Romanian skill at backstabbing. They were spot on to not honor their alliance with Germany in '14, and while they severly misjudged their time of entry, they bounced back enough to lie and cheat their way into gaining not only the ROMAnian inhabitated parts, but also the very cultural heart of Hungary. And of course their turn on their allies in '44 was just magnificent.
Also in 1945. If I recall, Romania was on the side that won at the end of the day.
Poor Hungary. Stabbed in the back by those subhumans. I guess they should have hidden their beets better.
Quote from: Cecil on March 21, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
Who is "our lovely media", and aren't religious fundamentalists right wingers?
So what Tamas is arguing amounts to the fact that Romania takes advantage of opportunities and betters itself while Hungary remains saddled to allies in a futile show of solidarity.
He is right, the Romanians ARE more advanced.
Quote from: PDH on March 21, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
So what Tamas is arguing amounts to the fact that Romania takes advantage of opportunities and betters itself while Hungary remains saddled to allies in a futile show of solidarity.
He is right, the Romanians ARE more advanced.
You'd think they would have learned not to hitch their wagons (*snicker*) to the Germans. But nooooooooo, they go ahead and sniff old Adolf's crotch and get a good asswhoopin' AGAIN.
I guess they like that smell.
Quote from: DGuller on March 21, 2012, 02:06:24 PM
That guy is still alive after all this time? Those machine pistols aren't so tough after all, it seems.
The police and the Interior Ministry mentioned that they want him alive.
It seems that he may have just blown himself up.
Again, according to French sources, the explosions were provoked by the intervention group as intimidation measures.
My respect for Gendarmes is waning. STORM THE PLACE. Flashbang the fuck and go in. I DEMAND BLOOD.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: Cecil on March 21, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
Who is "our lovely media", and aren't religious fundamentalists right wingers?
Depends.
Quote from: PDH on March 21, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
So what Tamas is arguing amounts to the fact that Romania takes advantage of opportunities and betters itself while Hungary remains saddled to allies in a futile show of solidarity.
He is right, the Romanians ARE more advanced.
It's not that Romania is stronger, it's just they are less weak.
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: Cecil on March 21, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
Who is "our lovely media", and aren't religious fundamentalists right wingers?
Depends.
On what?
Gunshot being heard.
Assault has started
Is this on TV anywhere?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: Cecil on March 21, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
Who is "our lovely media", and aren't religious fundamentalists right wingers?
Depends.
On what?
On whether or not they're actually right wingers. Duh.
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2012, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 21, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: Cecil on March 21, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
So anyone prepared to give odds that our lovely media will fall all over themselves trying to explain away this and trying to pin it on extreme right wing groups.....somehow?
Who is "our lovely media", and aren't religious fundamentalists right wingers?
Depends.
On what?
On whether or not they're actually right wingers. Duh.
I sorta thought that religious fundamentalism was sorta their domain. Has been for quite a while.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 08:33:58 PM
I sorta thought that religious fundamentalism was sorta their domain. Has been for quite a while.
You're a piece of work.
So is it confirmed a Muslim vermin was behind it as suspected?
G.
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 21, 2012, 07:35:03 PM
Again, according to French sources, the explosions were provoked by the intervention group as intimidation measures.
:huh: What like this?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpitbullpress.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2Fsupport-group.jpg&hash=fc039942e6741ba59c33e0660027ed6a5a081938)
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2012, 08:49:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 08:33:58 PM
I sorta thought that religious fundamentalism was sorta their domain. Has been for quite a while.
You're a piece of work.
Where are the liberal religious fundamentalists?
Quote from: Grallon on March 21, 2012, 09:45:30 PM
So is it confirmed a Muslim vermin was behind it as suspected?
G.
French ones.
Well, there's obviously a gun control problem in France.
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2012, 08:49:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2012, 08:33:58 PM
I sorta thought that religious fundamentalism was sorta their domain. Has been for quite a while.
You're a piece of work.
Is there anything in accurate in what he said? Or am I missing some implication here?
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 05:01:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
WTF we did not
1919?
Yeah right, a country surrounded by enemies including the Entente, with a freshly re-formed army, deeply tormented by the conflicts of Red political and White military leadership, still manages to kick the Czechs out of Slovaka, just for the Reds to agree to demands on abandoning all liberated territories there in exchange of Romanian withdrawal from what is today the center of the country. We oblige, the Romanians do not, which results in a hasty offensive against them, with an ill-prepared and demoralized army against a dug-in enemy on the other side of a major river.
Slovaks got lucky, or are you arguing that Slovakia would be a better place today if it was a region of Hungary?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2012, 11:04:10 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 05:01:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 21, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
WTF we did not
1919?
Yeah right, a country surrounded by enemies including the Entente, with a freshly re-formed army, deeply tormented by the conflicts of Red political and White military leadership, still manages to kick the Czechs out of Slovaka, just for the Reds to agree to demands on abandoning all liberated territories there in exchange of Romanian withdrawal from what is today the center of the country. We oblige, the Romanians do not, which results in a hasty offensive against them, with an ill-prepared and demoralized army against a dug-in enemy on the other side of a major river.
Slovaks got lucky, or are you arguing that Slovakia would be a better place today if it was a region of Hungary?
Slovaks got lucky, Hungarians left on the other side of the borther got unlucky.
It is too offtopic here, but it is interesting to note that supposedly the magyar-slovak hate wasn't much present before 1914. I am not aware of any independence movements from the Slovaks until Masaryk and co. figured they could use the real estate there.
Listen, I do not debate that the ROMAnians, the Slovaks, the Serbs had their right to belong to their own country in the regions where they were living en masse. What I have problem with is the idiotic part of the peace where huge chunks of Hungarian-inhabited territories were also given over, taking the bad thing about pre-WW1 Hungary, and replicating it in numerous times in the surrounding countries.
The funny part is that the borders the nazis carved out for us until 1940 were much more fair than Trianon. Of course the division of Transylvania was very trick, because basically it was a corridor to the 100%-Hungarian enclave in the mountains far from the present day border, but it was a reasonable compromise.
Quote from: Tamas on March 22, 2012, 04:41:04 AM
Slovaks got lucky, Hungarians left on the other side of the borther got unlucky.
It is too offtopic here, but it is interesting to note that supposedly the magyar-slovak hate wasn't much present before 1914. I am not aware of any independence movements from the Slovaks until Masaryk and co. figured they could use the real estate there.
Listen, I do not debate that the ROMAnians, the Slovaks, the Serbs had their right to belong to their own country in the regions where they were living en masse. What I have problem with is the idiotic part of the peace where huge chunks of Hungarian-inhabited territories were also given over, taking the bad thing about pre-WW1 Hungary, and replicating it in numerous times in the surrounding countries.
The funny part is that the borders the nazis carved out for us until 1940 were much more fair than Trianon. Of course the division of Transylvania was very trick, because basically it was a corridor to the 100%-Hungarian enclave in the mountains far from the present day border, but it was a reasonable compromise.
Go fuck yourself. Pretty much every nation in the region could say the same because these areas are not (surprise!) ethnically homogenous. You didn't want to live in the multi-cultural Habsburg empire so you got what you wanted. And at least based on recent developments, Slovaks are doing much better than Hungarians, so it looks like Trianon was right to give the land to smarter people.
Don't be so sure about the Slovaks. Their liberals fixed their economy, so in rage they first turned to rightish, now leftist populism. It is just a matter of time before they fuck up. It is inevitable
And the areas I am talking about (and you obviously have no idea about them) WERE mostly homogenous, near the Trianon borders.
NYT reporting that the guy is dead.
Quote from: Caliga on March 22, 2012, 06:30:39 AM
NYT reporting that the guy is dead.
What's the cause of death? Boredom? Old age?
Quote from: DGuller on March 22, 2012, 08:11:34 AM
Quote from: Caliga on March 22, 2012, 06:30:39 AM
NYT reporting that the guy is dead.
What's the cause of death? Boredom? Old age?
"Fall" from a window.
QuoteTOULOUSE, France — A 23-year-old Frenchman who claimed responsibility for killing four men and three children died on Thursday after jumping from a window, still firing from a weapon in his hand, as security forces stormed the apartment where he had been holed up for more than 30 hours, Claude Guéant, the French interior minister, said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp)
Quote from: DGuller on March 22, 2012, 08:11:34 AM
Quote from: Caliga on March 22, 2012, 06:30:39 AM
NYT reporting that the guy is dead.
What's the cause of death? Boredom? Old age?
Geez a siege lasted for less than two days before they resorted to a dangerous assault and you give them crap for it? But this is the age of the 24 hour news cycle.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 08:15:43 AM
QuoteTOULOUSE, France — A 23-year-old Frenchman who claimed responsibility for killing four men and three children died on Thursday after jumping from a window, still firing from a weapon in his hand, as security forces stormed the apartment where he had been holed up for more than 30 hours, Claude Guéant, the French interior minister, said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp)
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 08:59:13 AM
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
Jumping from the window, firing his semi-automatic baguette while flicking his cigarette ashes ostentatiously.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 08:15:43 AM
QuoteTOULOUSE, France — A 23-year-old Frenchman who claimed responsibility for killing four men and three children died on Thursday after jumping from a window, still firing from a weapon in his hand, as security forces stormed the apartment where he had been holed up for more than 30 hours, Claude Guéant, the French interior minister, said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp)
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
Frenchmen don't dress that way though :secret: Tracksuit much more likely for the suburban crowd.
The French press reported his Algerian origins and so does this article later on.
QuoteA former garage mechanic of Algerian descent, Mr. Merah made two trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in recent years, and said that he had been trained by Al Qaeda. Though Mr. Merah had initially indicated to negotiators that he hoped to live, Mr. Guéant told French radio earlier on Thursday he wanted "to die with weapons in his hands."
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 08:15:43 AM
QuoteTOULOUSE, France — A 23-year-old Frenchman who claimed responsibility for killing four men and three children died on Thursday after jumping from a window, still firing from a weapon in his hand, as security forces stormed the apartment where he had been holed up for more than 30 hours, Claude Guéant, the French interior minister, said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp)
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
What's wrong with that?
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 09:07:50 AM
Frenchmen don't dress that way though :secret:
I'll make a note of that, thanks.
QuoteTracksuit much more likely for the suburban crowd.
No, that's how Serbs dress :rolleyes:
QuoteThe French press reported his Algerian origins and so does this article later on.
QuoteA former garage mechanic of Algerian descent, Mr. Merah made two trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in recent years, and said that he had been trained by Al Qaeda. Though Mr. Merah had initially indicated to negotiators that he hoped to live, Mr. Guéant told French radio earlier on Thursday he wanted "to die with weapons in his hands."
Okay, but they could have put some of that in the opening paragraph.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 09:17:48 AM
Okay, but they could have put some of that in the opening paragraph.
That would imply he did the killings because of his religious views, and we just can't have that.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 09:15:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 08:15:43 AM
QuoteTOULOUSE, France — A 23-year-old Frenchman who claimed responsibility for killing four men and three children died on Thursday after jumping from a window, still firing from a weapon in his hand, as security forces stormed the apartment where he had been holed up for more than 30 hours, Claude Guéant, the French interior minister, said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/europe/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-french-police-standoff.html?hp)
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
What's wrong with that?
Gives a false impression of who the shooter is, whether or not it's technically correct.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 09:17:48 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 09:07:50 AM
Frenchmen don't dress that way though :secret:
Quote
I'll make a note of that, thanks.
You're welcome ! :)
QuoteTracksuit much more likely for the suburban crowd.
QuoteNo, that's how Serbs dress :rolleyes:
If only :(
QuoteThe French press reported his Algerian origins and so does this article later on.
QuoteA former garage mechanic of Algerian descent, Mr. Merah made two trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in recent years, and said that he had been trained by Al Qaeda. Though Mr. Merah had initially indicated to negotiators that he hoped to live, Mr. Guéant told French radio earlier on Thursday he wanted "to die with weapons in his hands."
Okay, but they could have put some of that in the opening paragraph.
Well, it was reported from the very moment it was known. Relevant indeed and sadly, not surprising at all.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 08:59:13 AM
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
Jumping from the window, firing his semi-automatic baguette while flicking his cigarette ashes ostentatiously.
Le Monde and others said it was a Kalashnikov, no
bleu-blanc-rouge FAMAS, sorry.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2012, 09:46:03 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 08:59:13 AM
I like how they call him a "Frenchman" and leave it at that. Like he was wearing a striped shirt & beret as he jumped out the window.
Jumping from the window, firing his semi-automatic baguette while flicking his cigarette ashes ostentatiously.
Le Monde and others said it was a Kalashnikov, no bleu-blanc-rouge FAMAS, sorry.
lol, fucking FAMAS needs to be nerfed in BF3 anyhow.
Quote from: Tamas on March 22, 2012, 09:19:07 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 09:17:48 AM
Okay, but they could have put some of that in the opening paragraph.
That would imply he did the killings because of his religious views, and we just can't have that.
Algerians are not particularly religious. This seems more ethnic/culture/politics based than religious.
Likewise, IRA wasn't killing people because they (IRA) were catholic.
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2012, 10:15:14 AM
Likewise, IRA wasn't killing people because they (IRA) were catholic.
Point of Order! :mad: *gavel gavel gavel* :mad:
Quote from: Martinus on March 22, 2012, 10:15:14 AM
Algerians are not particularly religious. This seems more ethnic/culture/politics based than religious.
Likewise, IRA wasn't killing people because they (IRA) were catholic.
Well some Algerians are, just like it seems a sizeable minority of Tunisians are, and I would guess if you start calling yourself 'Mujahideen' it sorta raises some flags.
I mean if the IRA had called themselves 'Crusaders' it would have changed their dynamic a bit no?
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 09:19:51 AM
Gives a false impression of who the shooter is, whether or not it's technically correct.
How so? The guy wasn't French? You never did get back to me on that Fundamentalist thingy. You want to elaborate on that?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:26:33 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 09:19:51 AM
Gives a false impression of who the shooter is, whether or not it's technically correct.
How so? The guy wasn't French?
Yes, technically he was a French citizen. But that's less relevant to the story than the fact that he was an Islamist of Alergian descent with ties to al-Quaeda.
QuoteYou never did get back to me on that Fundamentalist thingy. You want to elaborate on that?
Elaborate on what? Oh, you trying to claim that Islamic fundamentalists are right-wingers in the context of Western politics? I'm okay with just letting that crazy notion speak for itself.
Why is crazy? Is religious fundamentalism the domain of right wingers in this country or not? If this crazy notion speaks for itself, perhaps someone else can come in and tell me. Since, as it speaks for itself anyone should be able to tell me what it means.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 10:49:49 AM
Yes, technically he was a French citizen. But that's less relevant to the story than the fact that he was an Islamist of Alergian descent with ties to al-Quaeda.
Why is ethnic background more relevant then citizenship? What sort of ties did he have to Al-Quaeda?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:56:32 AM
Why is ethnic background more relevant then citizenship?
Because your typical plain vanilla Frenchman is not that interested in killing Jewish toddlers to avenge Israeli treatment of Palestinians or killing French troops to avenge French involvement in Afghanistan.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 10:49:49 AM
Yes, technically he was a French citizen. But that's less relevant to the story than the fact that he was an Islamist of Alergian descent with ties to al-Quaeda.
Why is ethnic background more relevant then citizenship? What sort of ties did he have to Al-Quaeda?
From what I read, he trained with them.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 11:21:31 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:56:32 AM
Why is ethnic background more relevant then citizenship?
Because your typical plain vanilla Frenchman is not that interested in killing Jewish toddlers to avenge Israeli treatment of Palestinians or killing French troops to avenge French involvement in Afghanistan.
Europeans kill Jews for all sorts of reasons including Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Remember that Israeli airliner hijacking in the 1970's that went to Uganda? Some of the Hijackers were Germans.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:27:39 AM
Europeans kill Jews for all sorts of reasons including Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Remember that Israeli airliner hijacking in the 1970's that went to Uganda? Some of the Hijackers were Germans.
Why is the ethnicity of those hijackers important Raz?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:54:36 AM
Why is crazy? Is religious fundamentalism the domain of right wingers in this country or not? If this crazy notion speaks for itself, perhaps someone else can come in and tell me. Since, as it speaks for itself anyone should be able to tell me what it means.
Since you're being all cute & generically referring to "religious fundamentalism", I'll say not. *Christian* fundamentalists tend toward the right, but I fail to see how Christian fundamentalists in the US are relevant to a topic about an Islamist terrorist in France.
I like you, but sometimes you get so desperately partisan it becomes irritating.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 11:21:31 AM
Because your typical plain vanilla Frenchman is not that interested in killing Jewish toddlers to avenge Israeli treatment of Palestinians or killing French troops to avenge French involvement in Afghanistan.
But the motive's not mentioned in the first sentence either. Both that and his Algerian descent are later in the article where they're actually discussing the killer. And I think you need the two to make sense. If you're saying he's Algerian but don't mention that his motive is somehow linked to Islam (if he was, say, just a mental) then I don't think you're adding much and if you mention the motive without the Algerian descent then, I agree, it's misleading.
That first line could be either reported from what the Interior Minister's said, or it's just establishing what happened, the resolution of this siege and manhunt before going back over it including details of the killer, his motive and the siege building back to where we started.
So they don't call him a Frenchman and leave it at that, but not putting it in the very first paragraph is insufficient? :mellow:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:27:39 AM
Europeans kill Jews for all sorts of reasons including Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Remember that Israeli airliner hijacking in the 1970's that went to Uganda? Some of the Hijackers were Germans.
Why is the ethnicity of those hijackers important Raz?
For someone who doesn't like answering my questions, you sure ask a lot of them. I of course was only mentioning their citizenship. Of course pointing out that they were vanilla Euros does contradict your statement, so that's good too.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:27:39 AM
Europeans kill Jews for all sorts of reasons including Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Remember that Israeli airliner hijacking in the 1970's that went to Uganda? Some of the Hijackers were Germans.
Do you think they were also rightwingers? :P
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:54:36 AM
Why is crazy? Is religious fundamentalism the domain of right wingers in this country or not? If this crazy notion speaks for itself, perhaps someone else can come in and tell me. Since, as it speaks for itself anyone should be able to tell me what it means.
Since you're being all cute & generically referring to "religious fundamentalism", I'll say not. *Christian* fundamentalists tend toward the right, but I fail to see how Christian fundamentalists in the US are relevant to a topic about an Islamist terrorist in France.
I like you, but sometimes you get so desperately partisan it becomes irritating.
Wait, you mean the difference between a right winger and a not right winger is in fact his religion? Can Muslims not be right wing?
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 22, 2012, 11:30:45 AM
So they don't call him a Frenchman and leave it at that, but not putting it in the very first paragraph is insufficient? :mellow:
As you can see I was responding to Raz's question about the relevance of citizenship and ethnicity.
Although personally I don't understand the point of leading with his citizenship.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:54:36 AM
Why is crazy? Is religious fundamentalism the domain of right wingers in this country or not? If this crazy notion speaks for itself, perhaps someone else can come in and tell me. Since, as it speaks for itself anyone should be able to tell me what it means.
Since you're being all cute & generically referring to "religious fundamentalism", I'll say not. *Christian* fundamentalists tend toward the right, but I fail to see how Christian fundamentalists in the US are relevant to a topic about an Islamist terrorist in France.
I like you, but sometimes you get so desperately partisan it becomes irritating.
Wait, you mean the difference between a right winger and a not right winger is in fact his religion? Can Muslims not be right wing?
:huh:
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:33:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:27:39 AM
Europeans kill Jews for all sorts of reasons including Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Remember that Israeli airliner hijacking in the 1970's that went to Uganda? Some of the Hijackers were Germans.
Do you think they were also rightwingers? :P
Actually I think they were Marxists.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 11:35:49 AM
Although personally I don't understand the point of leading with his citizenship.
My guess would be to establish that he's not Algerian.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 10:54:36 AM
Why is crazy? Is religious fundamentalism the domain of right wingers in this country or not? If this crazy notion speaks for itself, perhaps someone else can come in and tell me. Since, as it speaks for itself anyone should be able to tell me what it means.
Since you're being all cute & generically referring to "religious fundamentalism", I'll say not. *Christian* fundamentalists tend toward the right, but I fail to see how Christian fundamentalists in the US are relevant to a topic about an Islamist terrorist in France.
I like you, but sometimes you get so desperately partisan it becomes irritating.
Wait, you mean the difference between a right winger and a not right winger is in fact his religion? Can Muslims not be right wing?
:huh:
The difference seems to be the religion. You say Christian fundamentalists tend toward the right wing. You seem to be suggesting that this somehow excludes non-Christian fundamentalists.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:36:49 AM
Actually I think they were Marxists.
So you're admitting they were leftwingers? Hey, I think we're making some progress.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:41:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:36:49 AM
Actually I think they were Marxists.
So you're admitting they were leftwingers? Hey, I think we're making some progress.
I never denied. :)
Outside the US hard-core Catholics tend to be very lefty. They're all about the social market and virtually want to reinstate the guild system.
Generally Islamists tend to be quite right-wing. Islam's got nothing like 'a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven...' or Christ expelling the money-lenders. Mohammed was a merchant. Many Mosques rent out spaces to business within or attached to the Mosque. With the exception of the usury - which is easily got around through Islamic finance - Islam is more naturally righty and into business than Christianity.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:40:24 AM
The difference seems to be the religion. You say Christian fundamentalists tend toward the right wing. You seem to be suggesting that this somehow excludes non-Christian fundamentalists.
Not sure where you're trying to lead me, but I never said Muslims can't be rightwingers as you suggested above. My point is that "religious fundamentalists" is too broad a category to ascribe to the right or left. What is yours?
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 11:40:24 AM
The difference seems to be the religion. You say Christian fundamentalists tend toward the right wing. You seem to be suggesting that this somehow excludes non-Christian fundamentalists.
Not sure where you're trying to lead me, but I never said Muslims can't be rightwingers as you suggested above. My point is that "religious fundamentalists" is too broad a category to ascribe to the right or left. What is yours?
That religious fundamentalism is an inherently right-wing concept.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
That religious fundamentalism is an inherently right-wing concept.
St. Francis might disagree. :hmm:
Why not?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
Why not?
Well the concept of "Right-wing" and "Left-Wing" predate him by a few centuries. And the term "fundamentalist" was coined to describe theological doctines opposed to other religious theologies which hadn't been concieved in the time of St. Francis.
Okay, your turn. You answer my question.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 22, 2012, 11:44:26 AM
Outside the US hard-core Catholics tend to be very lefty. They're all about the social market and virtually want to reinstate the guild system.
You obviously have never met our catholics.
All catholics are wrong wing.
Quote from: The Larch on March 22, 2012, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 22, 2012, 11:44:26 AM
Outside the US hard-core Catholics tend to be very lefty. They're all about the social market and virtually want to reinstate the guild system.
You obviously have never met our catholics.
Inside the US Catholic are often lefty.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 12:43:19 PM
Well the concept of "Right-wing" and "Left-Wing" predate him by a few centuries. And the term "fundamentalist" was coined to describe theological doctines opposed to other religious theologies which hadn't been concieved in the time of St. Francis.
Okay, your turn. You answer my question.
If "fundamentalist" and "right-wing" are not connected through some eternal law of politics, then their relationship is determined by the context of time and place. In the context of our time and our place, there is no reason to associate sharia law, jihad against non-Muslims, and recapture of al Andalus with right wing politics. "Fundamentalism" is not intrinsically right-wing; there are plenty of people around the world who believe the Bible is the literal word of God (the definition of fundamentalist) who are very much left-wing in their politics.
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have czech, polish, madagascar, italian, belgian, portuguese, algerian genes. Where the dude s parents are born is irrelevant.
Fortunately we don't live in the 9th century, so we don't have to worry about that. You'll also notice in my posts that I was referring to modern period. Fundamentalism is a plank of right wing thought. It is not synonymous with right wing thought, though. Simply a part of it. People can have both right wing and left wing ideas in their head. However, having both in their head does not change the nature of either idea.
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have czech, polish, madagascar, italian, belgian, portuguese, algerian genes. Where the dude s parents are born is irrelevant.
Any Islamist in ya?
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 02:24:45 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have czech, polish, madagascar, italian, belgian, portuguese, algerian genes. Where the dude s parents are born is irrelevant.
Any Islamist in ya?
Any in you?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:19:51 PM
Fortunately we don't live in the 9th century, so we don't have to worry about that. You'll also notice in my posts that I was referring to modern period. Fundamentalism is a plank of right wing thought. It is not synonymous with right wing thought, though. Simply a part of it. People can have both right wing and left wing ideas in their head. However, having both in their head does not change the nature of either idea.
Gotcha. So those rednecks in Oklahoma or wherever who passed a law outlawing the sharia, those were left-wingers, right?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:25:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 02:24:45 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have czech, polish, madagascar, italian, belgian, portuguese, algerian genes. Where the dude s parents are born is irrelevant.
Any Islamist in ya?
Any in you?
No, sir.
Sure about that? Them Muslim got around.
I am a direct descendent of Mohammed. In fact I look exactly like him.
Quote from: Valmy on March 22, 2012, 02:30:07 PM
I am a direct descendent of Mohammed. In fact I look exactly like him.
dead? :unsure:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:19:51 PM
Fortunately we don't live in the 9th century, so we don't have to worry about that. You'll also notice in my posts that I was referring to modern period. Fundamentalism is a plank of right wing thought. It is not synonymous with right wing thought, though. Simply a part of it. People can have both right wing and left wing ideas in their head. However, having both in their head does not change the nature of either idea.
Gotcha. So those rednecks in Oklahoma or wherever who passed a law outlawing the sharia, those were left-wingers, right?
Don't know. Why? What would make you think that? Does outlawing a form of law not practiced in the US seem leftwing to you?
Quote from: Valmy on March 22, 2012, 02:30:07 PM
I am a direct descendent of Mohammed. In fact I look exactly like him.
I believe John Kerry was, wasn't he?
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:32:49 PM
Don't know. Why? What would make you think that? Does outlawing a form of law not practiced in the US seem leftwing to you?
Nothing would make me think that. I think the opposite. But you're the one associating all forms of fundamentalism with the right. Sharia law is an expression of fundamentalism. Ergo by your logic it is associated with the right.
Quote from: Valmy on March 22, 2012, 02:30:07 PM
I am a direct descendent of Mohammed. In fact I look exactly like him.
If you ever take a vacation in Pakistan or Afghanistan, I would advise you against having your picture taken there.
Neat thing about Right wingers. They don't work together well. Religious fundamentalists from one religion often hate religious fundamentalists from another group. Nationalists from one country may hate nationalists from another country. Despite being both being right wingers. I suppose this is because there is an element of exclusivity in right wing ideologies.
Naturally of course, left wingers don't always agree. But they have had a long history of international alliances. The best example is the Communist International. I don't believe there is a right wing equivalent.
Muslim fundamentalist are left-wingers. They are a minority, and protection of minorities is a plank of the left wing.
[Obvious nonsense]
Quote from: DGuller on March 22, 2012, 02:46:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 22, 2012, 02:30:07 PM
I am a direct descendent of Mohammed. In fact I look exactly like him.
If you ever take a vacation in Pakistan or Afghanistan, I would advice you against having your picture taken there.
And will there be rioting and flag-burning if someone caricatures Valmy in a newspaper?
Okay. While I appreciate you are now labeling you posts as "obvious nonsense" so the unwary won't take you seriously, I'm not sure what your point is.
Your obvious nonsense is such because you confuse two ideas. The liberal idea of protection of minorities with the individual beliefs of the minority themselves. American liberals protect the rights of minorities regardless of what the minorities believe.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:48:03 PM
Naturally of course, left wingers don't always agree. But they have had a long history of international alliances. The best example is the Communist International. I don't believe there is a right wing equivalent.
Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 22, 2012, 02:57:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:48:03 PM
Naturally of course, left wingers don't always agree. But they have had a long history of international alliances. The best example is the Communist International. I don't believe there is a right wing equivalent.
Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.
You can be vast and still be in the US. They didn't want to let dirty foreigners in.
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have ... portuguese..... genes.
NOTED.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:48:03 PM
Naturally of course, left wingers don't always agree. But they have had a long history of international alliances. The best example is the Communist International. I don't believe there is a right wing equivalent.
Extreme rightwing groups tend to be pretty nationalistic, so that sort of precludes much international association (though there certainly is some).
But I would say Communist movements tend more towards factionalization & infighting than Fascist-type movements.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
But I would say Communist movements tend more towards factionalization & infighting than Fascist-type movements.
Ernst disagrees. Courteously.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:57:21 PM
Okay. While I appreciate you are now labeling you posts as "obvious nonsense" so the unwary won't take you seriously, I'm not sure what your point is.
Your obvious nonsense is such because you confuse two ideas. The liberal idea of protection of minorities with the individual beliefs of the minority themselves. American liberals protect the rights of minorities regardless of what the minorities believe.
My point is it's silly to conclude a political convergence based on a shared word.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 22, 2012, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have ... portuguese..... genes.
NOTED.
one of us, one of us.
You can have him.
but he loses points for being a seperatists who's from france. that's just not playing within the rules.
Quote from: HVC on March 22, 2012, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 22, 2012, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have ... portuguese..... genes.
NOTED.
one of us, one of us.
You can have him.
but he loses points for being a seperatists who's from france. that's just not playing within the rules.
Eggplant juice runs all over the plate, infecting and drowning all the other sides with its eggplantedness.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 03:29:16 PM
Eggplant juice runs all over the plate, infecting and drowning all the other sides with its eggplantedness.
says the "irish" guy :D
Quote from: HVC on March 22, 2012, 03:33:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 03:29:16 PM
Eggplant juice runs all over the plate, infecting and drowning all the other sides with its eggplantedness.
says the "irish" guy :D
HEY NOW
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHaj4T.gif&hash=c18990317e306119e1f57bb3421c8348ff60e654)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
But I would say Communist movements tend more towards factionalization & infighting than Fascist-type movements.
Ernst disagrees. Courteously.
Fair point, but one might say the NSDAP defactionalized relatively peacefully, save for Roehm & a few other SA bigwigs that were purged.
Rohm was a faggot anyways and deserved what he got.
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
But I would say Communist movements tend more towards factionalization & infighting than Fascist-type movements.
Ernst disagrees. Courteously.
Fair point, but one might say the NSDAP defactionalized relatively peacefully, save for Roehm & a few other SA bigwigs that were purged.
lol, you make it sound like Ernst had it coming to him :lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:39:14 PM
Rohm was a faggot anyways and deserved what he got.
HEY NOW
:lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:36:46 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHaj4T.gif&hash=c18990317e306119e1f57bb3421c8348ff60e654)
i can't see this, but i'm guessing the the i win photo. i'll find out later tonight :D
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 02:57:21 PM
Okay. While I appreciate you are now labeling you posts as "obvious nonsense" so the unwary won't take you seriously, I'm not sure what your point is.
Your obvious nonsense is such because you confuse two ideas. The liberal idea of protection of minorities with the individual beliefs of the minority themselves. American liberals protect the rights of minorities regardless of what the minorities believe.
My point is it's silly to conclude a political convergence based on a shared word.
Oh. I thought you point was that you didn't know how to compare two things. All our words are shared, Yi. It's language. I know being a right winger is tough. Other right wingers tend to make your look bad. What is it that makes a right winger in you book then, Yi?
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 22, 2012, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 22, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
But I would say Communist movements tend more towards factionalization & infighting than Fascist-type movements.
Ernst disagrees. Courteously.
Fair point, but one might say the NSDAP defactionalized relatively peacefully, save for Roehm & a few other SA bigwigs that were purged.
The NSDAP was extremely factionalized through out it's history. In fact, it was supposed to be factionalized. That's the way Hitler wanted it.
Quote from: HVC on March 22, 2012, 03:41:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:36:46 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHaj4T.gif&hash=c18990317e306119e1f57bb3421c8348ff60e654)
i can't see this, but i'm guessing the the i win photo. i'll find out later tonight :D
You are missing out on some good stuff.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2012, 06:24:57 PM
Oh. I thought you point was that you didn't know how to compare two things.
Then you're either lying or you're a retard.
QuoteWhat is it that makes a right winger in you book then, Yi?
A hodgepodge of issues, some cultural, some national security-related, some economic, some about the role of government. Noticeable for their absence are a love of sharia and a desire to return Spain to Muslim rule.
Nope. Not lying. Maybe retarded. You did confused two things. The defending of minorities and the promotion of the beliefs of minorities.
Because I'm retarded I don't quite understand the last sentence:
QuoteNoticeable for their absence are a love of sharia and a desire to return Spain to Muslim rule.
. Care to rephrase that in a way that even retards can understand?
Sure. The issues that motivate Muslim extremists are not among the issues that motivate American right-wingers.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 08:19:21 PM
Sure. The issues that motivate Muslim extremists are not among the issues that motivate American right-wingers.
They aren't? Fighting perceived encroaching secularization, returning the country back to it's religious roots, having government more inline with sacred scripture all seem like common ground.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2012, 08:19:21 PM
Sure. The issues that motivate Muslim extremists are not among the issues that motivate American right-wingers.
I thought we were just discussing fundamentalists, not extremists obsessed with al-Andalus?
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 22, 2012, 09:09:20 PM
I thought we were just discussing fundamentalists, not extremists obsessed with al-Andalus?
We started off discussing whether the Toulouse shooter is a right winger. Along the way some terminology got a little flabby.
I'm still discussing fundamentalists. I have no idea where Yi is going off to.
Quote from: HVC on March 22, 2012, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 22, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 22, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
There is no vanilla Frenchman. I have ... portuguese..... genes.
NOTED.
one of us, one of us.
Like Sarkozy is a Hungarian. :D
A lingua é a Pátria :contract:
Is that why he's so short?
The terms "right-wing" and "left-wing" became obsolete after 1799, anyway. They describe absolutely nothing these days.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 23, 2012, 08:41:47 AM
The terms "right-wing" and "left-wing" became obsolete after 1799, anyway. They describe absolutely nothing these days.
What about the wings of an airplane or a bird?
Make up your mind.