Poll
Question:
Should a man ask for permission from his future bride's parents?
Option 1: Yes, and I did
votes: 6
Option 2: Yes, but I didn't
votes: 2
Option 3: Yes - never been in that situation myself
votes: 3
Option 4: No, but I did anyway
votes: 3
Option 5: No, and I didn't
votes: 12
Option 6: No - never been in that situation myself
votes: 15
Languish - decide PLZ.
Nay.
Last week, my brother took his girlfriend to Minorca and they got engaged there. Over the weekend I was talking about it with him, and he matter-of-factly brought up that he had called his girlfriend's parents (separately, because they are divorced) prior to proposing to ask their permission. I was like "wow, people still do that!?", and he acted like I was a cretin for not knowing, or doing it myself when Princesca and I got engaged.
My view is that, since Princesca isn't the property of her parents in the view of modern society, aside from being an anachronism asking permission is a bit demeaning and patronizing. His view is that it's tradition and not doing so indicates a lack of respect for the in-laws. Honestly, the thought of doing this didn't even cross my mind when we got engaged. I asked Princesca about it and she said she would have been angry if I'd called her mom and dad to "ask permission".
:hmm:
I could swear you've already asked this question before.
I think it's a nice gesture to ask for their "blessing" but not necessarily permission.
I'd do it but not before asking my gf if she was okay with it (both the wedding & permission).
I think the correct thing to do, of course assuming the daughter and father have reasonably good relations, is to say, "I intend to ask your daughter to marry me and would like to ask for your blessing".
It's the respectful thing to do.
Hell, even an asshole like me knows you should do that. Don't have to ask for a "blessing", though. But approval should be asked for.
And if he says no? Fuck it, do it anyway. And tell him how every holiday dinner he'll be reminded that your penis has been in his daughter's mouth.
No, marriage is an antiquated religious practice.
Yes, but a negative answer isn't binding.
Never even considered it.
What, are we living in Fiddler on the Roof? :lol:
Father's thought process first half-second:
What a respectful, tradition-minded young man. :bowler:
Followed by...
Aw fuck, that means he'll want me to pay for the wedding. :bleeding:
Ergo:
"No" :menace:
I guess I sorta did since my mother-in-law and I conspired on the proposal. So I guess I answer no, but I did anyway. However it was more like 'I am proposing to your daughter will you help me out?' and less 'beloved matron so-and-so I doth beseech thee for thy daughter's hand'.
I try not asking questions when I will be disregarding the answer I don't like regardless. That's a bit dishonest.
I fully agree with Caliga. There is nothing respectful or polite about it - it sounds awfully anachronistic and retarded. She should be the one telling her parents that - going "behind her back" and asking is extremely rude and patronizing, imo. In normal case, you do not have a "relationship" with your future wife's parents before you get married anyway (or even if you do, this relationship is nowhere near as strong as her relationship with her parents or your relationship with her) so you should not presume upon it. It's mindboggling that so many people who posted above me find this not only acceptable, but even desirable.
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:53:44 AM
I fully agree with Caliga. There is nothing respectful or polite about it - it sounds awfully anachronistic and retarded. She should be the one telling her parents that - going "behind her back" and asking is extremely rude and patronizing, imo. In normal case, you do not have a "relationship" with your future wife's parents before you get married anyway (or even if you do, this relationship is nowhere near as strong as her relationship with her parents or your relationship with her) so you should not presume upon it. It's mindboggling that so many people who posted above me find this not only acceptable, but even desirable.
Well usually by the time you propose she is expecting you to do it any moment now, and likewise my mother-in-law knew it was coming. If you are "going behind her back" to do it...well that is just creepy.
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 27, 2011, 06:49:43 AM
I'd do it but not before asking my gf if she was okay with it (both the wedding & permission).
That would be a hoot.
GF: "Honey, I want to ask you something."
GF's GF: "Uhm sure".
GF: "I intend to ask you to marry me..."
GF's GF: "Oh! Yes, I say yes!"
GF: "Uhm, no, wait, you didn't let me finish. I intend to ask you to marry me but before I do it I want to ask your father for a blessing. Would you mind if I did?"
GF's GF: "WHAT. THE. FUCK." :ultra:
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 07:55:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:53:44 AM
I fully agree with Caliga. There is nothing respectful or polite about it - it sounds awfully anachronistic and retarded. She should be the one telling her parents that - going "behind her back" and asking is extremely rude and patronizing, imo. In normal case, you do not have a "relationship" with your future wife's parents before you get married anyway (or even if you do, this relationship is nowhere near as strong as her relationship with her parents or your relationship with her) so you should not presume upon it. It's mindboggling that so many people who posted above me find this not only acceptable, but even desirable.
Well usually by the time you propose she is expecting you to do it any moment now, and likewise my mother-in-law knew it was coming. If you are "going behind her back" to do it...well that is just creepy.
Well, yeah, if you have a good relationship like that, sure. But then I would find it creepy too, only in a different way. Very yenta-ish, arranged marriage style.
That's not how I meant it but funny post. :thumbsup: :lol:
So many Gs & Fs.
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:58:52 AM
Well, yeah, if you have a good relationship like that, sure. But then I would find it creepy too, only in a different way. Very yenta-ish, arranged marriage style.
You do realize I was still going to ask her to marry me and if she said 'no' then it wouldn't have happened right?
This was more like 'this is going to happen, you on board?' I mean when you marry somebody you are not just marrying them, you are also marrying their family. Hopefully you either really like them or they live very far away.
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:57:15 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 27, 2011, 06:49:43 AM
I'd do it but not before asking my gf if she was okay with it (both the wedding & permission).
That would be a hoot.
GF: "Honey, I want to ask you something."
GF's GF: "Uhm sure".
GF: "I intend to ask you to marry me..."
GF's GF: "Oh! Yes, I say yes!"
GF: "Uhm, no, wait, you didn't let me finish. I intend to ask you to marry me but before I do it I want to ask your father for a blessing. Would you mind if I did?"
GF's GF: "WHAT. THE. FUCK." :ultra:
:lmfao:
I don't know. Maybe as a gay man I never thought it through, but to me the whole "you are not just marrying your wife/husband, but their entire family" seems like something outdated and out of 19th century or something. I ever met the parents of only one of my boyfriends, and two of my boyfriends met my parents (once and twice, respectively) - so it would never occur to me to ask if we had an opportunity to marry.
Incidentally, in gay marriage, who asks for whose parents' blessing? :P
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 08:05:48 AM
I don't know. Maybe as a gay man I never thought it through, but to me the whole "you are not just marrying your wife/husband, but their entire family" seems like something outdated and out of 19th century or something. I ever met the parents of only one of my boyfriends, and two of my boyfriends met my parents (once and twice, respectively) - so it would never occur to me to ask if we had an opportunity to marry.
Incidentally, in gay marriage, who asks for whose parents' blessing? :P
Well you are marrying her family because, you know, she is a member of that family and it is likely you are going to be seeing her nuclear family a crapload and her extended family from time to time. Oh and your kids are going to be members of that family as well and you are going to get sucked into their little dramas. In the case of my wife she hangs with her mother all the freaking time. If we had a bad relationship the marriage would fail. But every couple is different, for some people they either have no family or are estranged in which case it wouldn't matter.
As for gay couples...well just like straight couples it sorta depends on how the relationship works and how close/not close people are to their families blah blah.
I wouldn't have thought of it myself, but my wife had mentioned that her sister's husband had asked her dad for permission (even though at that point they were living together and had a child together) and my future wife thought that was a very nice and respectful thing to do.
So I can take a hint, but like a few others mentined, it wasn't as if I would just "no" for an answer, so I settled on asking her dad for his blessing. He was touched (and for a guy screwing his daughter on a regualr basis, and for him being a right bastard to a number of people, he's never given me the slightest reason to complain) so perhaps the gesture worked out in the end.
And for the whole "you're marrying into the family" - absolutely true. Unless your future partner wants nothing to do with their family you're going to wind up spending a whole lot of time with your future in-laws, so its best to stay on good terms with them.
When my ex and I told my folks we were getting engaged, my dad said: "Aren't you going to ask for my permission, then?"
He did.
If they expect me to pay for part or most of the wedding, then yes, you better come and give me respect.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcarlaspeaks.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F11%2Fthe-godfather.jpg&hash=39f39607768cf3253be10c304b7072362bd492f3)
Permission shouldn't be asked, the bride to be is her own person and more than able to make her own decissions. Besides, by the point that a couple proposes most of the time it is already bleedingly obvious that it's happening so parents' have had time to object to it should it had been the case.
Don't know anyone who asked permission to get married, but i do know one guy who got along with his longterm girlfriends dad (went to hockey games, bars, etc) and he told him he was breaking up with his daughter before he told his girlfriend :lol:
As to the question at hand, depends on the family. if they're more traditional i have no problem with asking for their blessing.
Quote from: HVC on September 27, 2011, 08:26:27 AM
Don't know anyone who asked permission to get married, but i do know one guy who got along with his longterm girlfriends dad (went to hockey games, bars, etc) and he told him he was breaking up with his daughter before he told his girlfriend :lol:
:blink:
But surely that was just because he blurted it out and not his plan right? :lol:
The whole "asking permission" thing is a relic of a time when the wife's parents actually had a choice in the matter.
Today, they don't. I suppose if pretending that they do makes them happy, might as well go for it - but I did not imagine anyone in this day and age actually still did this. Hell, my *parents* didn't do this.
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
They shouldn't, but then nor SHOULD they be getting married. The entire thing is all about tradition in the first place- so in for a penny in for a pound.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
[The Brain]That's a terrible trade.[/The Brain]
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2011, 08:31:37 AM
They shouldn't, but then nor SHOULD they be getting married. The entire thing is all about tradition in the first place- so in for a penny in for a pound.
Not so. Marriage has several legal major consequences concerning your status, quite irrespective of tradition.
Quote from: DGuller on September 27, 2011, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
[The Brain]That's a terrible trade.[/The Brain]
:lol:
None of her parents' business, she's not 16. I need her approval only.
Then again, I don't want to marry.
Quote from: Tyr on September 27, 2011, 08:31:37 AM
They shouldn't, but then nor SHOULD they be getting married. The entire thing is all about tradition in the first place- so in for a penny in for a pound.
Why shouldn't they?
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
The whole "asking permission" thing is a relic of a time when the wife's parents actually had a choice in the matter.
Today, they don't. I suppose if pretending that they do makes them happy, might as well go for it - but I did not imagine anyone in this day and age actually still did this. Hell, my *parents* didn't do this.
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
I am not sure who you are arguing with. Nobody is saying that her parents get to decide only that discussing it with them could set up a positive relationship going forward.
Quote from: Drakken on September 27, 2011, 08:35:28 AM
None of her parents' business, she's not 16. I need her approval only.
Then again, I don't want to marry.
And if she was 16 I would recomend not informing her parents anyway
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:37:52 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 27, 2011, 08:35:28 AM
None of her parents' business, she's not 16. I need her approval only.
Then again, I don't want to marry.
And if she was 16 I would recomend not informing her parents anyway
If she was 16, I'd be breaking the punk's legs.
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
The whole "asking permission" thing is a relic of a time when the wife's parents actually had a choice in the matter.
Today, they don't. I suppose if pretending that they do makes them happy, might as well go for it - but I did not imagine anyone in this day and age actually still did this. Hell, my *parents* didn't do this.
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
I am not sure who you are arguing with. Nobody is saying that her parents get to decide only that discussing it with them could set up a positive relationship going forward.
This will probably break down between the usual camps of "tradition is meaningless, so why bother doing it" and "well it's traditional, so as long as it doesn't hurt anybody why not do it".
It's not about
pretending[/u], it's about the ritual.
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:29:46 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 27, 2011, 08:26:27 AM
Don't know anyone who asked permission to get married, but i do know one guy who got along with his longterm girlfriends dad (went to hockey games, bars, etc) and he told him he was breaking up with his daughter before he told his girlfriend :lol:
:blink:
But surely that was just because he blurted it out and not his plan right? :lol:
Father asked once in a while when he'd get married. So, ya, he just blurted it out. Best part is they still hang out much to the daughters unease :D
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:37:52 AM
And if she was 16 I would recomend not informing her parents anyway
Elopement is a dying tradition nowadays. :(
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
The whole "asking permission" thing is a relic of a time when the wife's parents actually had a choice in the matter.
Today, they don't. I suppose if pretending that they do makes them happy, might as well go for it - but I did not imagine anyone in this day and age actually still did this. Hell, my *parents* didn't do this.
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
I am not sure who you are arguing with. Nobody is saying that her parents get to decide only that discussing it with them could set up a positive relationship going forward.
I'm not
arguing with anyone - I'm expressing
surprise that anyone in real life actually still did this bit of ritual.
If one does, more power to 'em. But I hardly imagine it would have any effect one way or the other on most parental relationships, any more than an abject failure to pay bride-price would - because, for the most part, parents aren't actually expecting it.
Quote from: Barrister on September 27, 2011, 08:41:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
The whole "asking permission" thing is a relic of a time when the wife's parents actually had a choice in the matter.
Today, they don't. I suppose if pretending that they do makes them happy, might as well go for it - but I did not imagine anyone in this day and age actually still did this. Hell, my *parents* didn't do this.
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
I am not sure who you are arguing with. Nobody is saying that her parents get to decide only that discussing it with them could set up a positive relationship going forward.
This will probably break down between the usual camps of "tradition is meaningless, so why bother doing it" and "well it's traditional, so as long as it doesn't hurt anybody why not do it".
It's not about pretending[/u], it's about the ritual.
It's not that the tradition/ritual is "meaningless", it is that the tradition/ritual is mostly "dead". To the point where, in many cases, performing it will make you look like some sort of throwback.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:47:00 AM
I'm not arguing with anyone - I'm expressing surprise that anyone in real life actually still did this bit of ritual.
If one does, more power to 'em. But I hardly imagine it would have any effect one way or the other on most parental relationships, any more than an abject failure to pay bride-price would - because, for the most part, parents aren't actually expecting it.
Ok I was just confused since you made a second post saying the same thing which made me think you were answering somebody.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:48:52 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 27, 2011, 08:41:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
The whole "asking permission" thing is a relic of a time when the wife's parents actually had a choice in the matter.
Today, they don't. I suppose if pretending that they do makes them happy, might as well go for it - but I did not imagine anyone in this day and age actually still did this. Hell, my *parents* didn't do this.
What's next, offering ten camels and a mule as bride-price? :P
I am not sure who you are arguing with. Nobody is saying that her parents get to decide only that discussing it with them could set up a positive relationship going forward.
This will probably break down between the usual camps of "tradition is meaningless, so why bother doing it" and "well it's traditional, so as long as it doesn't hurt anybody why not do it".
It's not about pretending[/u], it's about the ritual.
It's not that the tradition/ritual is "meaningless", it is that the tradition/ritual is mostly "dead". To the point where, in many cases, performing it will make you look like some sort of throwback.
Well as witnessed in this thread, it would seem like it is not mostly dead.
Quote from: Barrister on September 27, 2011, 08:50:45 AM
Well as witnessed in this thread, it would seem like it is not mostly dead.
Question: Should a man ask for permission from his future bride's parents?
Yes, and I did 0 (0%)
:hmm:
Well, now I've voted, so there. :P
And Brazen and Valmy said that they had, and several others expressed the opinion that it was the classy thing to do.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:48:52 AM
It's not that the tradition/ritual is "meaningless", it is that the tradition/ritual is mostly "dead". To the point where, in many cases, performing it will make you look like some sort of throwback.
Well sure if you are equating it with paying a bride price or dowry or some shit like that. But generally letting the bride's parents know your intentions may just be a good idea depending on the circumstances. Sometimes it may indeed by as ridiculous as handing over 10 cows and a particularly well carved spear.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:52:10 AM
Question: Should a man ask for permission from his future bride's parents?
Yes, and I did 0 (0%)
:hmm:
Well the was like it was an obligation. No it ain't. It is like should you buy a diamond ring? Well maybe not depending on the circumstances.
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:56:03 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:48:52 AM
It's not that the tradition/ritual is "meaningless", it is that the tradition/ritual is mostly "dead". To the point where, in many cases, performing it will make you look like some sort of throwback.
Well sure if you are equating it with paying a bride price or dowry or some shit like that. But generally letting the bride's parents know your intentions may just be a good idea depending on the circumstances. Sometimes it may indeed by as ridiculous as handing over 10 cows and a particularly well carved spear.
These days, marriage soon after meeting is not the norm. Generally, people go out for a long time before they bother to tie the knot, often living together and stuff - so it hardly comes as a big surprise to the parents.
"Asking permission" when you've been happily living together and presumably fucking for months or even years is just odd. Maybe it's different if she's really young and living with her parents and such.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 09:04:01 AM
These days, marriage soon after meeting is not the norm. Generally, people go out for a long time before they bother to tie the knot, often living together and stuff - so it hardly comes as a big surprise to the parents.
"Asking permission" when you've been happily living together and presumably fucking for months or even years is just odd. Maybe it's different if she's really young and living with her parents and such.
Ok I guess I am just odd. Strangely nobody thought it was odd. But my plan on how I was going to propose needed her participation. Also 'asking permission' is a social gesture not a signing of a bride contract for godsake.
What is fun is talking to her parents the day after you spent the night in her old room. lololol
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 27, 2011, 09:07:36 AM
What is fun is talking to her parents the day after you spent the night in her old room. lololol
More fun - bumping into her dad on the way to the can in the middle of the night. :D
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 09:09:37 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 27, 2011, 09:07:36 AM
What is fun is talking to her parents the day after you spent the night in her old room. lololol
More fun - bumping into her dad on the way to the can in the middle of the night. :D
With an erection.
Dad should spring for a house with a master bathroom.
Just like the last time we talked about this the answer is "no". Unless he wants to come across as a weirdo.
Not planning on "asking," but I am going to give FFIL a heads-up right before I pop the question. They know it's coming anyway, so it's really just more a question of when we've got enough of our shit together to go ahead with wedding plans.
I guess it's alright if you do, no skin off my back.
For my part, I hadn't met my future in-laws or even spoken to them before I married their daughter.
Quote from: Jacob on September 27, 2011, 10:41:22 AM
I guess it's alright if you do, no skin off my back.
For my part, I hadn't met my future in-laws or even spoken to them before I married their daughter.
:lol: I can't exactly feign ignorance there, though, since we've all been pretty tight for almost 8 years now.
If a guy gives a Languisher permission to marry his daughter please give me his phone number. I'm gonna ask for some money since he's obviously doped up or dying or something.
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:58:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 07:55:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:53:44 AM
I fully agree with Caliga. There is nothing respectful or polite about it - it sounds awfully anachronistic and retarded. She should be the one telling her parents that - going "behind her back" and asking is extremely rude and patronizing, imo. In normal case, you do not have a "relationship" with your future wife's parents before you get married anyway (or even if you do, this relationship is nowhere near as strong as her relationship with her parents or your relationship with her) so you should not presume upon it. It's mindboggling that so many people who posted above me find this not only acceptable, but even desirable.
Well usually by the time you propose she is expecting you to do it any moment now, and likewise my mother-in-law knew it was coming. If you are "going behind her back" to do it...well that is just creepy.
Well, yeah, if you have a good relationship like that, sure. But then I would find it creepy too, only in a different way. Very yenta-ish, arranged marriage style.
Yenta?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2011, 06:43:14 AM
I could swear you've already asked this question before.
I think it's a nice gesture to ask for their "blessing" but not necessarily permission.
Now that you mention it, I dimly recall a thread like this one in the past... but unsure why I'd start one, since I got engaged in 1998 and this would be my brother's first engagement.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2011, 06:43:14 AM
I could swear you've already asked this question before.
I think it's a nice gesture to ask for their "blessing" but not necessarily permission.
Yep, which is exactly why I did it. My wife's dad appreciated the gesture.
Quote from: Valmy on September 27, 2011, 08:56:03 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 08:48:52 AM
It's not that the tradition/ritual is "meaningless", it is that the tradition/ritual is mostly "dead". To the point where, in many cases, performing it will make you look like some sort of throwback.
Well sure if you are equating it with paying a bride price or dowry or some shit like that. But generally letting the bride's parents know your intentions may just be a good idea depending on the circumstances. Sometimes it may indeed by as ridiculous as handing over 10 cows and a particularly well carved spear.
I also asked for cows but no go.
Didn't ask for "permission" out of principle, but did have a chat where I told them my intention.
I see a lot of bitter single men posting in this thread, and not so many married people. :hmm:
If you want a dowry.
Quote from: Martinus on September 27, 2011, 07:53:44 AM
In normal case, you do not have a "relationship" with your future wife's parents before you get married anyway (or even if you do, this relationship is nowhere near as strong as her relationship with her parents or your relationship with her) so you should not presume upon it.
:huh:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 27, 2011, 11:00:14 AM
Yenta?
Yes - although not that I'm agreeing with what Marti said.
I'd say it depends on the 'family culture' - you're going to have to gauge what would be appropriate and go with it.
There's not an absolutely correct answer on this one.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on September 27, 2011, 04:14:52 PM
I'd say it depends on the 'family culture' - you're going to have to gauge what would be appropriate and go with it.
There's not an absolutely correct answer on this one.
Next you are going to say its ok to fry a steak in some circumstances.
:yes:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ordinaryrecipesmadegourmet.com%2Fcountry-fried-steak.jpg&hash=be42ec5274db97330e6d795272112f781727cb6f)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 27, 2011, 04:42:36 PM
:yes:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ordinaryrecipesmadegourmet.com%2Fcountry-fried-steak.jpg&hash=be42ec5274db97330e6d795272112f781727cb6f)
Lord, it looks like someone vomited on it. :lol:
You best keep your nasty comments about chicken fried steak to yourselves. heathens.
What the hell is that!
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 27, 2011, 05:05:19 PM
What the hell is that!
A plate of delicious. Once you scrape the icky corn off there.
Quote from: Malthus on September 27, 2011, 04:44:16 PM
Lord, it looks like someone vomited on it. :lol:
That's SAWMILL GRAVY, bitch! Goddamn foreigners. :mad:
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
If you want a dowry.
Dowry is paid by the groom's father to the bride's father.
You westernessers got it wrong.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 27, 2011, 04:32:30 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on September 27, 2011, 04:14:52 PM
I'd say it depends on the 'family culture' - you're going to have to gauge what would be appropriate and go with it.
There's not an absolutely correct answer on this one.
Next you are going to say its ok to fry a steak in some circumstances.
Yep. I have no dog in that race. I'm not into 'converting' people to my way of life. ;) :lol:
Quote from: Siege on September 27, 2011, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
If you want a dowry.
Dowry is paid by the groom's father to the bride's father.
You westernessers got it wrong.
*sigh* Dowry is so Bronze Age. Womenfolk are not an addition to the tribal livestock holdings anymore. Get over it.
Women are good for fixin' sammichs and shooting babies out their baby cannons. That is it.
Quote from: Siege on September 27, 2011, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
If you want a dowry.
Dowry is paid by the groom's father to the bride's father.
You westernessers got it wrong.
I think that's the bride price. Dowry is where you get some cows from the brides family to set up shop.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 27, 2011, 05:05:19 PM
What the hell is that!
What I want to know is - what the hell is the difference between a "chicken fried steak" and a weiner schnitzel???
No. I didn't ask for permission and I didn't make any effort to earn their acceptance. I am still very surprised that her parents seemed to have accepted me before we even met, and we've been on more than good terms ever since our first encounter. I consider this a mystery that I still don't have the slightest clue about.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on September 27, 2011, 07:41:05 PM
*sigh* Dowry is so Bronze Age. Womenfolk are not an addition to the tribal livestock holdings anymore. Get over it.
I think it often decided the fate of nations in early modern Europe.
Quote from: Siege on September 27, 2011, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
If you want a dowry.
Dowry is paid by the groom's father to the bride's father.
You westernessers got it wrong.
Pretty sure the standard in Central Asia is for the Bride's Father to pay the Groom's.
It works differently in different places.
Depends on her family. If she's from a more tradition-minded east Asian family, then I may tell her parents in the form of a question.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 27, 2011, 11:12:12 PM
Quote from: Siege on September 27, 2011, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
If you want a dowry.
Dowry is paid by the groom's father to the bride's father.
You westernessers got it wrong.
Pretty sure the standard in Central Asia is for the Bride's Father to pay the Groom's.
It works differently in different places.
Dowry is where the wife's family pays, Bride price is where the husband or his family pays.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 27, 2011, 05:11:58 PM
A plate of delicious. Once you scrape the icky corn off there.
What's wrong with corn? :huh:
Corn is what you feed chicken and hogs.
So it's cheap, still tasty with lots of butter.
Corn is only good in chip or wrap form.
Quote from: Ideologue on September 28, 2011, 04:33:22 AM
Corn is only good in chip or wrap form.
After a big holiday dinner at my grandmother's and her fabulous creamed corn, there was always that one fucking kernel that would never flush.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 11:34:02 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 27, 2011, 11:12:12 PM
Quote from: Siege on September 27, 2011, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 27, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
If you want a dowry.
Dowry is paid by the groom's father to the bride's father.
You westernessers got it wrong.
Pretty sure the standard in Central Asia is for the Bride's Father to pay the Groom's.
It works differently in different places.
Dowry is where the wife's family pays, Bride price is where the husband or his family pays.
I dont think that is universally true. In some parts of China a dowry can also be the husband's family paying the wife's family. For some Chinese families that tradition has carried on after they moved to Canada. As an example of this one of my associates is often teased by her father that she needs to get married so that he can recover the dowry he had to pay when his son got married. They dont refer to it as a "bride price".
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 09:26:54 AM
I dont think that is universally true. In some parts of China a dowry can also be the husband's family paying the wife's family. For some Chinese families that tradition has carried on after they moved to Canada. As an example of this one of my associates is often teased by her father that she needs to get married so that he can recover the dowry he had to pay when his son got married. They dont refer to it as a "bride price".
It wouldn't be the first time when someone misuses a word, especially one with historical/traditional connotations. Especially when herself she is coming from a different culture/language (Hint: English is not the first language for people living in "some parts of China"). :huh:
According to wiki, Raz is right:
QuoteA dowry (also known as trousseau or tocher or, in Latin, dos) is the money, goods, or estate that a woman brings forth to the marriage.[1][2] It contrasts with bride price, which is paid to the bride's parents, and dower, which is property settled on the bride herself by the groom at the time of marriage.
My wife's dowry was a bunch of college debt. :/
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 09:26:54 AM
I dont think that is universally true. In some parts of China a dowry can also be the husband's family paying the wife's family. For some Chinese families that tradition has carried on after they moved to Canada. As an example of this one of my associates is often teased by her father that she needs to get married so that he can recover the dowry he had to pay when his son got married. They dont refer to it as a "bride price".
Oh, I imagine they don't call it "bride price" or "dowry". They probably have their own word for it. The Chinese are so troublesome like that, they have to have a separate word for
everything. I got my definition from so college course I took a long time ago. Sociology or anthropology or something like that.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 28, 2011, 11:11:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 09:26:54 AM
I dont think that is universally true. In some parts of China a dowry can also be the husband's family paying the wife's family. For some Chinese families that tradition has carried on after they moved to Canada. As an example of this one of my associates is often teased by her father that she needs to get married so that he can recover the dowry he had to pay when his son got married. They dont refer to it as a "bride price".
Oh, I imagine they don't call it "bride price" or "dowry". They probably have their own word for it. The Chinese are so troublesome like that, they have to have a separate word for everything. I got my definition from so college course I took a long time ago. Sociology or anthropology or something like that.
Zu ma!
We need a poll "Should a man ask for permission from his future bride?".
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2011, 11:38:25 AM
We need a poll "Should a man ask for permission from his future bride?".
Why not just ask her? Having to ask permission to propose and THEN propose seems a little redundant.
I didn't ask. We eloped, and then after a few months decided to break the news to them by scanning & emailing them our marriage certificate. I never really thought the asking the father thing was a big deal...
until my daughter was born earlier this year :menace:
Quote from: derspiess on September 28, 2011, 12:03:35 PM
I didn't ask. We eloped, and then after a few months decided to break the news to them by scanning & emailing them our marriage certificate. I never really thought the asking the father thing was a big deal...
until my daughter was born earlier this year :menace:
You regret not asking the father of your daughter?
Thank you.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2011, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 09:26:54 AM
I dont think that is universally true. In some parts of China a dowry can also be the husband's family paying the wife's family. For some Chinese families that tradition has carried on after they moved to Canada. As an example of this one of my associates is often teased by her father that she needs to get married so that he can recover the dowry he had to pay when his son got married. They dont refer to it as a "bride price".
It wouldn't be the first time when someone misuses a word, especially one with historical/traditional connotations. Especially when herself she is coming from a different culture/language (Hint: English is not the first language for people living in "some parts of China"). :huh:
According to wiki, Raz is right:
QuoteA dowry (also known as trousseau or tocher or, in Latin, dos) is the money, goods, or estate that a woman brings forth to the marriage.[1][2] It contrasts with bride price, which is paid to the bride's parents, and dower, which is property settled on the bride herself by the groom at the time of marriage.
Yeah Marti, my associate who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, French, English and some Spanish would be completely oblivious to any language nuance. I should definitely trust wiki on this one. There could never be a different use of the words.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 02:37:06 PM
Yeah Marti, my associate who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, French, English and some Spanish would be completely oblivious to any language nuance. I should definitely trust wiki on this one. There could never be a different use of the words.
Well it looks like the concept in Anthropology is called 'Bride Price' but that may not be what it is called in the actual cultures it is used. Alot of Anthropology concepts are like that right?
Quote from: Razgovory on September 28, 2011, 11:11:34 AM
Oh, I imagine they don't call it "bride price" or "dowry". They probably have their own word for it. The Chinese are so troublesome like that, they have to have a separate word for everything. I got my definition from so college course I took a long time ago. Sociology or anthropology or something like that.
They do indeed have their own word but my associate used used the word dowry in its place. Others may want to put their own word on it which is essentially what anthropologists do as a matter of categorization of human activities.
Its funny how this came up in our office. There was some joking around about another of our associates not demanding a dowry for his new wife and my other associate made the point that he had it easy because it was his family who should be paying the dowry.
It may be that if asked whether bride price might also fit as a description she might also agree to that.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2011, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 02:37:06 PM
Yeah Marti, my associate who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, French, English and some Spanish would be completely oblivious to any language nuance. I should definitely trust wiki on this one. There could never be a different use of the words.
Well it looks like the concept in Anthropology is called 'Bride Price' but that may not be what it is called in the actual cultures it is used. Alot of Anthropology concepts are like that right?
Yep.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2011, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 02:37:06 PM
Yeah Marti, my associate who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, French, English and some Spanish would be completely oblivious to any language nuance. I should definitely trust wiki on this one. There could never be a different use of the words.
Well it looks like the concept in Anthropology is called 'Bride Price' but that may not be what it is called in the actual cultures it is used. Alot of Anthropology concepts are like that right?
Yeah, Dowry may be a the colloquial English term for any transfer of wealth that takes place before a wedding. Bride price may be the term a social scientist came up with to differentiate the two since I don't think paying the women's family is a common enough occurrence in English speaking Europe to warrant its own organic word. It could also be that "Dowry" is simply the the English traditional translation of a Chinese word which does not have an exact English term to describe it or the original translators were simply ignorant of less used term "bride price"
According to online etymology dictionary the word "gift" seems to have been close to the concept of "Bride price".
Actually, Raz has it right: in English, "dowry" always, in colloquial use, means a transfer of wealth from the wife's family. English lacks a one-word descriptor for the reverse because it isn't a part of English culture to do the reverse.
Look up "dowry" in the dictonary - in the Oxford Canadian, it is "property or money brought by a bride to her husband at marrage".
["bride price" is also defined there - "A payment of money or goods made to a bride or her parents by the bridegroom or his parents"]
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2011, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 02:37:06 PM
Yeah Marti, my associate who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, French, English and some Spanish would be completely oblivious to any language nuance. I should definitely trust wiki on this one. There could never be a different use of the words.
Well it looks like the concept in Anthropology is called 'Bride Price' but that may not be what it is called in the actual cultures it is used. Alot of Anthropology concepts are like that right?
The thing is, the concept of bride price does not exist in English-speaking cultures and hence no "native" word for it.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2011, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 28, 2011, 09:26:54 AM
I dont think that is universally true. In some parts of China a dowry can also be the husband's family paying the wife's family. For some Chinese families that tradition has carried on after they moved to Canada. As an example of this one of my associates is often teased by her father that she needs to get married so that he can recover the dowry he had to pay when his son got married. They dont refer to it as a "bride price".
It wouldn't be the first time when someone misuses a word, especially one with historical/traditional connotations. Especially when herself she is coming from a different culture/language (Hint: English is not the first language for people living in "some parts of China"). :huh:
According to wiki, Raz is right:
QuoteA dowry (also known as trousseau or tocher or, in Latin, dos) is the money, goods, or estate that a woman brings forth to the marriage.[1][2] It contrasts with bride price, which is paid to the bride's parents, and dower, which is property settled on the bride herself by the groom at the time of marriage.
Yeah Marti, my associate who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, French, English and some Spanish would be completely oblivious to any language nuance. I should definitely trust wiki on this one. There could never be a different use of the words.
Anyone who knows anything about languages, knows there is never a complete 1:1 translation of every word in the dictionary. She might have used a closest word in English but as Raz, Malthus and me (through wikipedia) pointed out that was not technically correct. Are you incapable of admitting you are wrong despite overwhelming evidence?
In any case, why would I trust your anecdotal colleague over wikipedia? Wtf. Wikipedia may be a not 100% reliable source, but that's when compared to other scientific/encyclopedic sources. Not to "someone I know".
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2011, 03:07:16 PM
Anyone who knows anything about languages, knows there is never a complete 1:1 translation of every word in the dictionary. She might have used a closest word in English but as Raz, Malthus and me (through wikipedia) pointed out that was not technically correct. Are you incapable of admitting you are wrong?
The argument you made is not the same as the one Malthus and Raz made. Their's was one of definition. Your argument was that somehow my associate misunderstood the historical and traditional connotations of the word. She understood the connotations perfectly which is what made her jab at my other associate work as a joke.
You however misunderstand such analogies and so I can see your difficulty in following her reasoning.
My brother and his fiancee are back to talking about forcing everyone to go to a destination wedding. :bleeding:
I can afford that no problem, but IMO it's pretty selfish since not all of their friends and family can, and as my mom is deathly afraid to fly she wouldn't go either.
Quoteforcing everyone to go to a destination wedding
forcing? I'd tell him to fuck off.
His response would be "We don't care. It's about us, not everyone else." :rolleyes:
Quote from: Caliga on September 28, 2011, 06:35:44 PM
His response would be "We don't care. It's about us, not everyone else." :rolleyes:
I'd shrug and send them a toaster oven as a present.
Good idea. Scip, got a spare I can borrow? :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on September 28, 2011, 06:35:44 PM
His response would be "We don't care. It's about us, not everyone else." :rolleyes:
Then everyone else should make sure it is all about them by staying home.
Quote from: Caliga on September 28, 2011, 06:37:21 PM
Good idea. Scip, got a spare I can borrow? :cool:
Go to Big Lots or Ollies. 20 bucks. Done.
Quote from: sbr on September 28, 2011, 06:37:44 PM
Then everyone else should make sure it is all about them by staying home.
I'm pretty sure they'll come to their senses soon. Part of this is probably because she had never been abroad before.